Messages in AquaticLife group. Page 1 of 1.

Group: AquaticLife Message: 7574 From: paul helms Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7575 From: paul helms Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7576 From: lois Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7577 From: Steve Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7578 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: Very New Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7579 From: lois Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7580 From: Ron F Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7581 From: Ron F Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7582 From: paul helms Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7583 From: Rob Robinson Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Limescale
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7584 From: lois Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7585 From: dreammaker2623 Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7586 From: dreammaker2623 Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7587 From: lois Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7588 From: dreammaker2623 Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7589 From: lois Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7590 From: Steve Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7591 From: Lyndsay Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Stocking Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7592 From: lois Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7593 From: Audrey Archer Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Huh?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7594 From: Ron F Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7595 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7596 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: Very New Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7597 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: Very New Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7598 From: Ron F Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7599 From: paul helms Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7600 From: paul helms Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7601 From: paul helms Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7602 From: lois Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7603 From: Ron F Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7604 From: lois Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7605 From: Steve Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7606 From: paul helms Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7607 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7608 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: Very New Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7609 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: Very New Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7610 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Cycling My New Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7611 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: gobies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7612 From: dreammaker2623 Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7613 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: group name soon to be AquaticLife ] Cycling
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7614 From: ndrew_x Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7615 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: gobies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7616 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Group name changing when?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7617 From: lois Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7618 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Rain Forest Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7619 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: Rain Forest Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7620 From: harry perry Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Name change info deleted. A test
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7621 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7622 From: harry perry Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7623 From: Steve Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7624 From: Steve Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7625 From: harry perry Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7626 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: frogs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7627 From: harry perry Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7628 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7629 From: harry perry Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7630 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7631 From: lois Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7632 From: paul helms Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7633 From: paul helms Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7634 From: paul helms Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7635 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7636 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7637 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7638 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7639 From: paul helms Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7640 From: paul helms Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7641 From: Ron Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: Very New Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7642 From: paul helms Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7643 From: Audrey Archer Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Re: KIDS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7644 From: ndrew_x Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Shrimps
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7645 From: Scott Tucker Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Blue
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7646 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: San Francisco Aquarium Society , 1/7/2005, 7:30 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7647 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: new 90g
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7648 From: Ron F Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7649 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7650 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7651 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7652 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Re: Rain Forest Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7653 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7654 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7655 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: 3 of 4 of my oto died within hours
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7656 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Blue Snails and Lobsters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7657 From: Faye & Erin Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: moores are dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7658 From: Chris Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Artificial coral distribution
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7659 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7660 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Reputable Dealer in Chicago?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7661 From: paul helms Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7662 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7663 From: paul helms Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7664 From: wagtail65 Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: FYI: Livebearer Event
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7665 From: ben_noreau Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Disappearing Tetra
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7666 From: joequality1980 Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: Disappearing Tetra
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7667 From: Ben Noreau Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7668 From: lois Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7669 From: Ben Noreau Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7670 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: Disappearing Tetra
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7671 From: paul helms Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7672 From: Ray Tripp Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7673 From: Scott Tucker Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7674 From: Carly Smith Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: new 90 gal
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7675 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: Disappearing Tetra
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7676 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7677 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7678 From: paul helms Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7679 From: paul helms Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7680 From: paul helms Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7681 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7682 From: Richard Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: FYI: Livebearer Event
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7683 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7684 From: paul helms Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7685 From: jason stone Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7686 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: slight change in amonia and ph
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7687 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Walmart
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7688 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: 3 otto's/ bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7689 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7690 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: 2005 ALA
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7691 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7692 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/5/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7693 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 1/5/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7694 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/5/2005
Subject: Re: new 90 gal
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7696 From: paul helms Date: 1/5/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7697 From: paul helms Date: 1/5/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7698 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/5/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7699 From: Florence Ivy Date: 1/5/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7700 From: Larry Date: 1/5/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7701 From: Anne Date: 1/5/2005
Subject: Hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7702 From: charsi187 Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: Want tp put 60gal in my house wall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7703 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: Tank in wall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7704 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: AQUATIC STAMPS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7705 From: loisontheweb Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: Is my iron-rich water killing my fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7706 From: Florence Ivy Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7707 From: paul helms Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7708 From: griselle cottingham Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7709 From: lois Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7710 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7711 From: ben_noreau Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Aquarium Accessories
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7712 From: griselle cottingham Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7713 From: Angela Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: New Tank Update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7714 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Lost neon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7715 From: Ben Noreau Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7716 From: Ray Tripp Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7717 From: Steve Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Exploring the Environment: Coral Reefs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7718 From: Steve Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Surf and Turf
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7719 From: Anne Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7720 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Harry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7721 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7722 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Rain Forest
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7723 From: Anne Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7724 From: Anne Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7725 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: # of fish per gallon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7726 From: paul helms Date: 1/9/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7727 From: paul helms Date: 1/9/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7728 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 1/9/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7729 From: paul helms Date: 1/9/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7730 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: 90g stocking
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7731 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: Fwd: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquati
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7732 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: Re: 90g stocking
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7733 From: Audrey Archer Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: Re: bacterial filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7734 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7735 From: Sharon Roten Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: from Sharon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7736 From: joequality1980 Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: Re: from Sharon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7737 From: paul helms Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7738 From: paul helms Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7739 From: Sharon Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7740 From: paul helms Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: Re: Fwd: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aq
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7741 From: arch1574 Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: Re: Biological filter - new subject brackish tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7742 From: Aranel Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: Goldfish...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7743 From: arch1574 Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7744 From: Lyndsay Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: Stocking of a 24 gal
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7745 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7746 From: Steve Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7747 From: Lyndsay Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7748 From: paul helms Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7749 From: paul helms Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7750 From: paul helms Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7751 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/11/2005
Subject: Re: Fwd: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aq
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7752 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/11/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7753 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/11/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7754 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/11/2005
Subject: Food recomendations for Tropical Fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7755 From: joequality1980 Date: 1/11/2005
Subject: Los Angeles LFS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7756 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/11/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7757 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/11/2005
Subject: wine about ph testers
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7758 From: Sally and Paul Graham Date: 1/11/2005
Subject: Essential test kits?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7759 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/11/2005
Subject: Re: cycling
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7760 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/12/2005
Subject: Re: wine about ph testers
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7761 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/12/2005
Subject: Re: Essential test kits?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7762 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/12/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7763 From: ranginute Date: 1/12/2005
Subject: Coming home to freshwater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7764 From: Ron F Date: 1/12/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7765 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/12/2005
Subject: Re: Coming home to freshwater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7766 From: Darcy Kane Date: 1/12/2005
Subject: muck
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7767 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 1/12/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7768 From: Audrey Archer Date: 1/12/2005
Subject: Re: new brackish tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7769 From: Aranel Date: 1/12/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7770 From: kanedarcy Date: 1/12/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7771 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/12/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7772 From: Anne Date: 1/12/2005
Subject: Water woes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7773 From: Ron F Date: 1/12/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7774 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7775 From: paul helms Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7776 From: paul helms Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7777 From: paul helms Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7778 From: Mary Richardson Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Ichthyophthirius
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7779 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7780 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Ich...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7781 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7782 From: Miranda Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: new and ? about green water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7783 From: boy2coool Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Need help with my Balloon Molly
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7784 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7785 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7786 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7787 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7788 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7789 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7790 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7791 From: paul helms Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7792 From: Steve Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7793 From: Steve Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7794 From: Steve Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7795 From: Steve Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7796 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Deep Sea Creatures - Found At Phuket Seaside After Tsunami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7797 From: Michael Schmidt Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7798 From: seamonkeystew Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: new and ? about green water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7799 From: paul helms Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7800 From: paul helms Date: 1/13/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7801 From: Steve Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7802 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Tank dimensions?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7803 From: Michael Schmidt Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: image
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7804 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7805 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7806 From: daniel_roachus Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: Food recomendations for Tropical Fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7807 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: PEOPLE LIKE STEVE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7808 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7809 From: Florence Ivy Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7810 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7811 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Digest Number 567..."CYCLING"
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7812 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7813 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7814 From: joequality1980 Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7815 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7816 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7817 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7818 From: Angela Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: My tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7819 From: Florence Ivy Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7820 From: Florence Ivy Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7821 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7822 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7823 From: Florence Ivy Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7824 From: Angela Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7825 From: Steve Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7826 From: Steve Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7827 From: Steve Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7828 From: Steve Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7829 From: Anne Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7830 From: Florence Ivy Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7831 From: Anne Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7832 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7833 From: Anne Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Bettas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7834 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7835 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7836 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7837 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7838 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7839 From: Anne Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7840 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7841 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7842 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7843 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: aquatraders
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7844 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7845 From: Florence Ivy Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7846 From: loie Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7847 From: loie Date: 1/14/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7848 From: Elyse Date: 1/15/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7849 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/15/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7850 From: Elyse Date: 1/15/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7851 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 1/15/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7852 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 1/15/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7853 From: terribryant Date: 1/15/2005
Subject: oranda missing scales
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7854 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/15/2005
Subject: NAME CHANGE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7855 From: harry perry Date: 1/15/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7856 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 1/15/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7857 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/15/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7858 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/15/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7859 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/15/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7860 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/15/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7861 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/15/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7862 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 1/15/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7863 From: paul helms Date: 1/15/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7864 From: paul helms Date: 1/15/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7865 From: Elyse Date: 1/16/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7866 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/16/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7867 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/16/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7868 From: Anne Date: 1/16/2005
Subject: Re' closets
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7869 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/16/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7870 From: Miranda Date: 1/16/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7871 From: paul helms Date: 1/16/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7872 From: Aaron Date: 1/16/2005
Subject: Re: NAME CHANGE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7873 From: Aaron Date: 1/16/2005
Subject: New Subject Tag
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7874 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/16/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: NAME CHANGE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7875 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/16/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: NAME CHANGE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7876 From: boy2coool Date: 1/17/2005
Subject: Need Help on Balloon Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7877 From: Scorp1on Date: 1/17/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need Help on Balloon Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7879 From: joequality1980 Date: 1/17/2005
Subject: Re: fish joke
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7880 From: Terri Bryant Date: 1/17/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7881 From: Terri Bryant Date: 1/17/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7882 From: Elyse Date: 1/17/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7883 From: Elyse Date: 1/17/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7884 From: ben_noreau Date: 1/17/2005
Subject: Aquarium Accessories
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7885 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/17/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7886 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 1/17/2005
Subject: Re: Aquarium Accessories
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7887 From: Colleen Date: 1/17/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: fish joke
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7888 From: Amalthea Date: 1/17/2005
Subject: CO2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7889 From: Miranda Date: 1/17/2005
Subject: Green water update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7890 From: Cosmo Knight Date: 1/17/2005
Subject: Re: Aquarium Accessories
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7891 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium Accessories
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7892 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: Aquarium Accessories
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7893 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: Need Help on Balloon Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7894 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: My tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7895 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7896 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: My tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7897 From: Laura Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7898 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7899 From: paul helms Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7900 From: paul helms Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7901 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Accessories
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7902 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 572
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7903 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Accessories
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7904 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] high nitrates (150 ppm!)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7905 From: Angela Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7906 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7907 From: Amalthea Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7908 From: paul helms Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7909 From: paul helms Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Accessories
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7910 From: paul helms Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 572
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7911 From: paul helms Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Accessories
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7912 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7913 From: Laura Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7914 From: joequality1980 Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: fish joke
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7915 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7916 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7917 From: Amalthea Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7918 From: RCG Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7919 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7920 From: Amalthea Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7921 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7922 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7923 From: RCG Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7924 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7925 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: Aquarium Accessories
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7926 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: Aquarium Accessories
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7927 From: RCG Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7928 From: RCG Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7929 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7930 From: boy2coool Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: Need Help on Balloon Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7931 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/18/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7932 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: Need Help on Balloon Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7933 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: Aquarium Accessories
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7934 From: Colleen Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: platty
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7935 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7936 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7937 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7938 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7939 From: RCG Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7940 From: RCG Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7941 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7942 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich(quick cure)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7943 From: paul helms Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7944 From: paul helms Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7945 From: paul helms Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7946 From: paul helms Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7947 From: paul helms Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7948 From: Robb Rouse Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Fish dieing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7949 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7950 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7951 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7952 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7953 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7954 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7955 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7956 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7957 From: dreammaker2623 Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7958 From: RCG Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7959 From: RCG Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7960 From: RCG Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7961 From: RCG Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7962 From: paul helms Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7963 From: paul helms Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7964 From: RCG Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7965 From: paul helms Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7966 From: paul helms Date: 1/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7967 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7968 From: Tim Fairchild Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7969 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7970 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7971 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Woot! And stubborn mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7972 From: Steve Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7973 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7974 From: Ben Noreau Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7975 From: ranginute Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Poll - Water changes and how often
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7976 From: stormluver89 Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Need help figuring out what this is!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7977 From: Ben Noreau Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Poll - Water changes and how often
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7978 From: Amalthea Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need help figuring out what this is!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7979 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need help figuring out what this is!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7980 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Fading colors on my fish.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7981 From: wjcoldman Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: Poll - Water changes and how often
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7982 From: paul helms Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fading colors on my fish.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7983 From: paul helms Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7984 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Poll - Water changes and how often
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7985 From: paul helms Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Poll - Water changes and how often
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7986 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Poll - Water changes and how often
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7987 From: paul helms Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Poll - Water changes and how often
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7988 From: dreammaker2623 Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7989 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: Fading colors on my fish.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7990 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Poll - Water changes and how often
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7991 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Poll - Water changes and how often
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7992 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/20/2005
Subject: Re: Poll - Water changes and how often
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7993 From: Steve Date: 1/21/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7994 From: Angela Date: 1/21/2005
Subject: Ich recovery
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7995 From: Tim Fairchild Date: 1/21/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7996 From: ranginute Date: 1/21/2005
Subject: Poll results - Water Changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7997 From: Audrey Archer Date: 1/21/2005
Subject: Re: Fish dieing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7998 From: Tri mac Date: 1/21/2005
Subject: Hello there
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7999 From: Steve Date: 1/21/2005
Subject: Games, Games, Games
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8000 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 1/21/2005
Subject: San Francisco Aquarium Society (SFAS), 2/4/2005, 7:30 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8001 From: antonios75@yahoo.com Date: 1/22/2005
Subject: ReefGossip.com is looking for moderators. All moderators will be PA
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8002 From: Angela Date: 1/22/2005
Subject: I need help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8003 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 1/22/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I need help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8004 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/22/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I need help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8005 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/22/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I need help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8006 From: paul helms Date: 1/22/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I need help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8007 From: paul helms Date: 1/22/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I need help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8008 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/22/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I need help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8009 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/22/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I need help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8010 From: paul helms Date: 1/22/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I need help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8011 From: paul helms Date: 1/22/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I need help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8012 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/23/2005
Subject: Re: Fading colors on my fish.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8013 From: paul helms Date: 1/23/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Fading colors on my fish.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8014 From: Anne Date: 1/23/2005
Subject: Angela
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8015 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/23/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angela
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8016 From: paul helms Date: 1/23/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angela
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8017 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 1/23/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich recovery
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8018 From: Julie Date: 1/23/2005
Subject: Converting to planted tanks.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8019 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/24/2005
Subject: Re: Fading colors on my fish.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8020 From: paul helms Date: 1/24/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Converting to planted tanks.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8021 From: paul helms Date: 1/24/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich recovery
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8022 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 1/24/2005
Subject: Re: Converting to planted tanks.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8023 From: Anne Date: 1/24/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angela
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8024 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/24/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich recovery
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8025 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/24/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angela
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8026 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 1/24/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich recovery
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8027 From: photo_muse Date: 1/24/2005
Subject: Cory Cat Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8028 From: eric douglas Date: 1/24/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory Cat Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8029 From: photo_muse Date: 1/24/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory Cat Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8030 From: paul helms Date: 1/24/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory Cat Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8031 From: Steve Date: 1/24/2005
Subject: nbc4.com - News - Group Petitions To Save Snakehead Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8032 From: Robb Rouse Date: 1/24/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish dieing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8033 From: tonycllr Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: Converting to planted tanks.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8034 From: eric douglas Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Converting to planted tanks.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8035 From: tonycllr Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Converting to planted tanks.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8036 From: Julie Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Converting to planted tanks.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8037 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8038 From: paul helms Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8039 From: Angela Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Nitrite Levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8040 From: paul helms Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrite Levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8041 From: pickles Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Converting to planted tanks.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8042 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8043 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Digest Number 581 - CLAY POTS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8044 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 581 - CLAY POTS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8045 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Tragedy!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8046 From: eric douglas Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8047 From: eric douglas Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8048 From: Amalthea Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8049 From: Amalthea Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8050 From: eric douglas Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8051 From: Amalthea Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8052 From: paul helms Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8053 From: paul helms Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8054 From: paul helms Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8055 From: paul helms Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8056 From: wjcoldman Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Converting to planted tanks.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8057 From: Amalthea Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Converting to planted tanks.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8058 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8059 From: Amalthea Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8060 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8061 From: Dawana Branch Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8062 From: paul helms Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8063 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8064 From: Amalthea Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8065 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8066 From: paul helms Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8067 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8068 From: Anne Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tragedy!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8069 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8070 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8071 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8072 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8073 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8074 From: Lyndsay Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Lethargic betta with a gold dust (still eating)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8075 From: paul helms Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8076 From: boy2coool Date: 1/25/2005
Subject: Swordtails dieing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8077 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: Lethargic betta with a gold dust (still eating)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8078 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: Lethargic betta with a gold dust (still eating)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8079 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8080 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8081 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Quarantine Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8082 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: water change directions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8083 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: Quarantine Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8084 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: water change directions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8085 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8086 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8087 From: photo_muse Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory Cat Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8088 From: Ben Noreau Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: water change directions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8089 From: paul helms Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory Cat Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8090 From: paul helms Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] water change directions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8091 From: lorivs2004 Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: newbie with a fur problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8092 From: Steve Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] water change directions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8093 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting, 2/5/2005, 6:30 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8094 From: Steve Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory Cat Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8095 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8096 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] water change directions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8097 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] newbie with a fur problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8098 From: boy2coool Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Mollies and Swordtails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8099 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] newbie with a fur problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8100 From: Amalthea Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mollies and Swordtails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8101 From: paul helms Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mollies and Swordtails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8102 From: Colleen Date: 1/26/2005
Subject: clown fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8103 From: boy2coool Date: 1/27/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mollies and Swordtails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8104 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 1/27/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mollies and Swordtails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8105 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/27/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mollies and Swordtails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8106 From: photo_muse Date: 1/27/2005
Subject: Cory Cat Questions - Social Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8107 From: photo_muse Date: 1/27/2005
Subject: Cory Cat Questions - Water Chemistry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8108 From: Cory Biggers Date: 1/27/2005
Subject: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8109 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/27/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8110 From: joequality1980 Date: 1/27/2005
Subject: Re: Mollies and Swordtails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8111 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/27/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory Cat Questions - Water Chemistry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8112 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/27/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory Cat Questions - Social Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8113 From: paul helms Date: 1/27/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollies and Swordtails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8114 From: paul helms Date: 1/27/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mollies and Swordtails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8115 From: paul helms Date: 1/27/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] clown fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8116 From: dustinj75 Date: 1/27/2005
Subject: Hello I a new here.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8117 From: boy2coool Date: 1/27/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mollies and Swordtails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8118 From: paul helms Date: 1/27/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mollies and Swordtails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8119 From: Colleen Date: 1/27/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] clown fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8120 From: paul helms Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] clown fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8121 From: ben_noreau Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Looking for Information
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8122 From: Anne Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: musty smell
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8123 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] musty smell
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8124 From: Colleen Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] clown fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8125 From: boy2coool Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Help Goldfish disease
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8126 From: Amalthea Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help Goldfish disease
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8127 From: Larry Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Looking for Information
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8128 From: julie_hash Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] newbie with a fur problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8129 From: Steve Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Looking for Information
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8130 From: ben_noreau Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Expansion Project
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8131 From: joequality1980 Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: Looking for Information
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8132 From: Steve Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help Goldfish disease
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8133 From: ben_noreau Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Looking for Information
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8134 From: ben_noreau Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: Looking for Information
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8135 From: paul helms Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] clown fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8136 From: Anne Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello I a new here.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8137 From: Aaron Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium grou
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8138 From: Aaron Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: New Group Name - AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8139 From: Aaron Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: NAME CHANGE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8140 From: notify@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: [AquaticLife] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name/addresses h
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8141 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: musty smell
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8142 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: Looking for Information
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8143 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: Hello I a new here.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8144 From: paul helms Date: 1/29/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8145 From: Aaron Date: 1/29/2005
Subject: New Group Category: Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8146 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/29/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8147 From: Anne Date: 1/29/2005
Subject: Re: musty smell
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8148 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/29/2005
Subject: Re: New Group Category: Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8149 From: Melanie Date: 1/29/2005
Subject: The Fish I Have
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8150 From: lorivs2004 Date: 1/30/2005
Subject: new young angels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8151 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/30/2005
Subject: Re: new young angels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8152 From: Cosmo Knight Date: 1/30/2005
Subject: Re: new young angels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8153 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/30/2005
Subject: Re: The Fish I Have
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8154 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/30/2005
Subject: lonely fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8155 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/30/2005
Subject: San Francisco Aquarium Society (SFAS), 2/4/2005, 7:30 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8156 From: photo_muse Date: 1/30/2005
Subject: Nitrates & Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8157 From: Colleen Date: 1/30/2005
Subject: petco
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8158 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: petco
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8159 From: Tim Fairchild Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Rainbowfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8160 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: petco
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8161 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: Rainbowfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8162 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: petco
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8163 From: Tim Fairchild Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: Rainbowfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8164 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8165 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: petco
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8166 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: Rainbowfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8167 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8168 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: petco
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8169 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: lonely fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8170 From: Colleen Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: petco
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8171 From: Colleen Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: petco
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8172 From: Colleen Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: petco
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8173 From: Amalthea Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: petco
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8174 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: petco
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8175 From: Colleen Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: petco
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8176 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: petco
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8177 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 588
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8178 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: YAy!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8179 From: paul helms Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 588
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8180 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: 750ml tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8181 From: Colleen Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: not green or milky
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8182 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: not green or milky
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8183 From: Colleen Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: not green or milky
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8184 From: photo_muse Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8185 From: pickles Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8186 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8187 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8188 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: not green or milky
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8189 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: not green or milky
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8190 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: not green or milky
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8191 From: paul helms Date: 2/1/2005
Subject: Re: not green or milky
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8192 From: paul helms Date: 2/1/2005
Subject: Re: 750ml tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8193 From: Colleen Date: 2/1/2005
Subject: Re: 750ml tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8194 From: Colleen Date: 2/1/2005
Subject: Re: not green or milky
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8195 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/1/2005
Subject: Alaskaicekubes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8196 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/1/2005
Subject: CYCLING your tank basic info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8197 From: antonios75@yahoo.com Date: 2/1/2005
Subject: Check out Reef Gossip's Tank of the month
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8198 From: pickles Date: 2/1/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8199 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/1/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8200 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/1/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8201 From: pickles Date: 2/1/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8202 From: pickles Date: 2/1/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8203 From: Colleen Date: 2/1/2005
Subject: Re: Alaskaicekubes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8204 From: photo_muse Date: 2/1/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8205 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/1/2005
Subject: Re: Alaskaicekubes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8206 From: boy2coool Date: 2/2/2005
Subject: Re: Help Goldfish disease
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8207 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 2/2/2005
Subject: Recommendations for looking after newborn guppies?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8208 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/2/2005
Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting, 2/5/2005, 6:30 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8209 From: paul helms Date: 2/2/2005
Subject: Re: Recommendations for looking after newborn guppies?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8210 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: Re: Recommendations for looking after newborn guppies?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8211 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: Re: Recommendations for looking after newborn guppies?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8212 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: Re: Recommendations for looking after newborn guppies?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8213 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: Re: Recommendations for looking after newborn guppies?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8214 From: griselle cottingham Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: Re: Recommendations for looking after newborn guppies?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8215 From: Tri mac Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: The fish pic on this home page!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8216 From: eric douglas Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: Re: Recommendations for looking after newborn guppies?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8217 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: Cycling with Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8218 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: Digest Number 591 - FEEDING NEW GUPPIES
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8219 From: ben_noreau Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: Breeding fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8220 From: ben_noreau Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: Re: Looking for Information
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8221 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: Re: Baby guppies!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8222 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: Re: Baby guppies!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8223 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: Re: Breeding fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8224 From: paul helms Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: Re: Cycling with Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8225 From: paul helms Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: guppy babies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8226 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: Re: Baby guppies!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8227 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: Re: Baby guppies!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8228 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: Re: Baby guppies!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8229 From: Aaron Martin Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: Fish Dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8230 From: Lyndsay Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8231 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8232 From: Anne Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: white cloud minnows
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8233 From: Ben Noreau Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: Breeding fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8234 From: paul helms Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8235 From: boy2coool Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Balloon Molly Died
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8236 From: greg1769 Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: unseen problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8237 From: CRAIG DAVISON Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: Looking for Information
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8238 From: craig davison Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: craigs tank & fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8239 From: Amalthea Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8240 From: paul helms Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: unseen problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8241 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: unseen problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8242 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8243 From: Carly Smith Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: guppy babies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8244 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Quick Question on Species Location
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8245 From: Steve Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: white cloud minnows
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8246 From: paul helms Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: guppy babies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8247 From: canadiancowgirl2004 Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: New to Group!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8248 From: Anne Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: New to Group!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8249 From: Western Cowgirl Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: New to Group!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8250 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: New to Group!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8251 From: Western Cowgirl Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: New to Group!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8252 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: New to Group!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8253 From: Western Cowgirl Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: New to Group!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8254 From: pickles Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: New to Group!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8255 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: Breeding fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8256 From: Ray Tripp Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8257 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: craigs tank & fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8258 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8259 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8260 From: Colleen Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: 10 gallon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8261 From: paul helms Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: 10 gallon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8262 From: paul helms Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8263 From: Ray Tripp Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8264 From: Ray Tripp Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8265 From: paul helms Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8266 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8267 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: San Francisco Bay Area Aquatic Plant Society SFBAAPS , 2/5/2005, 1:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8268 From: paul helms Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: photos....wtf?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8269 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: photos....wtf?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8270 From: Lyndsay Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8271 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Tortoise or Turtle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8272 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Tortoise or Turtle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8273 From: Ben Noreau Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Looking for Information
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8274 From: Ben Noreau Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Breeding fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8275 From: Anne Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: New to Group!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8276 From: terri Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: obese looking oranda
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8277 From: Julie Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: photos....wtf?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8278 From: greg1769 Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: unseen problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8279 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8280 From: Western Cowgirl Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: New to Group!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8281 From: Steve Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: obese looking oranda
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8282 From: Carly Smith Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 593
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8283 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: obese looking oranda
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8284 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Convict FRy problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8285 From: paul helms Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 593
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8286 From: paul helms Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Breeding fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8287 From: paul helms Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8288 From: paul helms Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: photos....wtf?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8289 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: common names vs scientific names
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8290 From: harry perry Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Breeding fish/ Ben Noreau
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8291 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Quick Question on Species Location
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8292 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: San Francisco Bay Area Aquatic Plant Society SFBAAPS , 2/5/2005, 1:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8293 From: Angela Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: High Nitrites
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8294 From: Amalthea Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8295 From: Amalthea Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Tortoise or Turtle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8296 From: Amalthea Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: obese looking oranda
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8297 From: Amalthea Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8298 From: Carly Smith Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: convict fry..Rob and Paul
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8299 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: shipping convicts
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8300 From: lesakalez Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Kissing Gourami not very flirty.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8301 From: harry perry Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Kissing Gourami not very flirty./ Temp.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8302 From: paul helms Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Kissing Gourami not very flirty.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8303 From: paul helms Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: High Nitrites
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8304 From: pickles Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Kissing Gourami not very flirty.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8305 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: High Nitrites
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8306 From: Anne Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: cleaning an old aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8307 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8308 From: Steve Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8309 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8310 From: Anne Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8311 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: shipping convicts
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8312 From: Amalthea Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: shipping convicts
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8313 From: pickles Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Breeding fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8314 From: Lyndsay Date: 2/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8315 From: Lyndsay Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8316 From: Aaron Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: photos....wtf?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8317 From: Elyse Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8318 From: Elyse Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads . . .
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8319 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: shipping convicts
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8320 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: Breeding fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8321 From: Amalthea Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: shipping convicts
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8322 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: High Nitrites
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8323 From: paul helms Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads . . .
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8324 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8325 From: harry perry Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8326 From: Steve Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8327 From: harry perry Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse/Steve
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8329 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse/Steve
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8330 From: Elyse Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8331 From: pickles Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8332 From: Patrick N. Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8333 From: Patrick N. Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: a new argument against new ugfs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8334 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8335 From: Elyse Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8336 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: The SF Bay Area Killifish Association Quarterly Meeting, 2/19/2005,
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8337 From: Anne Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8338 From: Steve Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse/Steve
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8339 From: Steve Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: a new argument against new ugfs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8340 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8341 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: a new argument against new ugfs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8342 From: paul helms Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse/Steve
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8343 From: paul helms Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8344 From: Patrick N. Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8345 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8346 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8347 From: pickles Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: a new argument against new ugfs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8348 From: Aranel Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Cory cat babies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8349 From: paul helms Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: Cory cat babies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8350 From: paul helms Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8351 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: Cory cat babies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8352 From: Aranel Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: Cory cat babies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8353 From: Aranel Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: Cory cat babies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8354 From: paul helms Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Cory cat babies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8355 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Cory cat babies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8356 From: Elyse Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8357 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8358 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8359 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Nitrite Update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8360 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8361 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8362 From: CRAIG DAVISON Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8363 From: paul helms Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8364 From: paul helms Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8365 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8366 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8367 From: Colleen Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: baby
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8368 From: CRAIG DAVISON Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8369 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8370 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8371 From: Amalthea Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8372 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care( tankmates)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8373 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care( tankmates)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8374 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care( tankmates)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8375 From: pickles Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8376 From: Amalthea Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8377 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care( tankmates)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8378 From: pickles Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care( tankmates)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8379 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care( tankmates)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8380 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8381 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8382 From: lesakalez Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Kissing Gourami not very flirty./ Temp.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8383 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8384 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: obese looking oranda
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8385 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: obese looking oranda
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8386 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8387 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8388 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8389 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8390 From: paul helms Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8391 From: paul helms Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8392 From: paul helms Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8393 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8394 From: Patrick N. Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8395 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8396 From: photo_muse Date: 2/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care( tankmates)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8397 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care( tankmates)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8398 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8399 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: obese looking oranda
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8400 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8401 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8402 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8403 From: Terri Bryant Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: obese looking oranda
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8404 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care( tankmates)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8405 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Digest Number 601 CHECKING AMMONIA
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8406 From: Dawana Branch Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Oscar question for a friend
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8407 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8408 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Oscar question for a friend
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8409 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8410 From: Colleen Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: baby
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8411 From: joequality1980 Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: baby
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8412 From: Colleen Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: baby
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8413 From: joequality1980 Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: substrate upgrade
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8414 From: joequality1980 Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: baby
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8415 From: Western Cowgirl Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Oscar question for a friend
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8416 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: substrate upgrade
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8417 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: baby
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8418 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 601 CHECKING AMMONIA
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8419 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 601 CHECKING AMMONIA
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8420 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 601 CHECKING AMMONIA
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8421 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 601 CHECKING AMMONIA
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8422 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 601 CHECKING AMMONIA
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8423 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 601 CHECKING AMMONIA
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8424 From: paul helms Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Oscar question for a friend
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8425 From: Colleen Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: baby
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8426 From: Amalthea Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: substrate upgrade
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8427 From: paul helms Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8428 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8429 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8430 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8431 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: substrate upgrade
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8432 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8433 From: Amalthea Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: substrate upgrade
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8434 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8435 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: substrate upgrade
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8436 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8437 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Oscar question for a friend
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8438 From: Carly Smith Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Oscars
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8439 From: photo_muse Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Cory cat babies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8440 From: paul helms Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8441 From: photo_muse Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: baby
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8442 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: (WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER) sponge filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8443 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: substrate upgrade
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8444 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: (WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER) sponge filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8445 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Cory cat babies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8446 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Deenerz...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8447 From: Colleen Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: baby
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8448 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Deenerz...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8449 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: Deenerz...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8450 From: Amalthea Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Re: substrate upgrade
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8451 From: paul helms Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: Re: Deenerz...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8452 From: paul helms Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: Re: Deenerz...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8453 From: paul helms Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: Re: baby
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8454 From: Lauri T Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: water chemistry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8455 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: Nitrite Trouble, again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8456 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: Sac River Fishing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8457 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrite Trouble, again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8458 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: Re: water chemistry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8459 From: photo_muse Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: Re: baby
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8460 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: Re: Deenerz...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8461 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: Pacific Coast Cichlid Association , 2/12/2005, 7:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8462 From: Colleen Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: baby
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8463 From: paul helms Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: Re: Deenerz...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8464 From: paul helms Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: Re: Sac River Fishing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8465 From: Lauri T Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: RE water chemistry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8466 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Aquarium salt to fix nitrites?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8467 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: RE water chemistry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8468 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: Aquarium salt to fix nitrites?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8469 From: Amalthea Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Photos
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8470 From: Aaron Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: baby
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8471 From: jim Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8472 From: Patrick mn Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8474 From: Cosmo Knight Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: water chemistry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8475 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8476 From: Colleen Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: baby
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8477 From: Colleen Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: baby
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8478 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8479 From: paul helms Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8480 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8481 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8482 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8483 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8484 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8485 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8486 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: Aquarium salt to fix nitrites?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8487 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8488 From: photo_muse Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: baby
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8489 From: Colleen Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: peggy
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8490 From: Lauri T Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: water chemistry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8491 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: water chemistry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8492 From: paul helms Date: 2/11/2005
Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8493 From: paul helms Date: 2/11/2005
Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8494 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/11/2005
Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8495 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/11/2005
Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8496 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/11/2005
Subject: Waterchanges used to be RE: Peggy
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8497 From: paul helms Date: 2/11/2005
Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8498 From: Lauri T Date: 2/11/2005
Subject: Re: water chemistry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8499 From: photo_muse Date: 2/11/2005
Subject: Re: Waterchanges used to be RE: Peggy
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8500 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/11/2005
Subject: Re: Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8501 From: photo_muse Date: 2/11/2005
Subject: Re: peggy
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8502 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/12/2005
Subject: California Betta Society , 2/26/2005, 2:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8503 From: harryfisherman Date: 2/12/2005
Subject: Badis Badis
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8504 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 2/12/2005
Subject: How to breed silver sharks or tiger barbs?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8505 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
Subject: A Little Help Please :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8506 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
Subject: Re: A Little Help Please :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8507 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
Subject: Re: A Little Help Please :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8508 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
Subject: Neon Tetra Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8509 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
Subject: Re: A Little Help Please :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8510 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
Subject: Re: A Little Help Please :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8511 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
Subject: Re: Neon Tetra Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8512 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
Subject: Re: Neon Tetra Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8513 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
Subject: Black Ghost Knife Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8514 From: paul helms Date: 2/12/2005
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8515 From: paul helms Date: 2/12/2005
Subject: Re: Neon Tetra Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8516 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
Subject: Re: Neon Tetra Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8517 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8518 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/12/2005
Subject: Re: Neon Tetra Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8519 From: Colleen Date: 2/12/2005
Subject: Fw: [alaska_scanner] Fw: Invitation
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8520 From: Steve Date: 2/13/2005
Subject: Re: Badis Badis
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8521 From: Steve Date: 2/13/2005
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8522 From: Angela Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8523 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8524 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8525 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8526 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8527 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8528 From: sdaccord03 Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: www.myreeftank.us
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8529 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8530 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8531 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8532 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: www.myreeftank.us
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8533 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8534 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8535 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8536 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8537 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8538 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8539 From: Audrey Archer Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Brackish goby, salt in planted tanks, planted tank substrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8540 From: Aranel Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Questions about my new fish and snail...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8541 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8542 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Crayfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8543 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8544 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8545 From: LauriT Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Brackish goby, salt in planted tanks, planted tank substrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8546 From: paul helms Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8547 From: eric douglas Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Questions about my new fish and snail...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8548 From: Aranel Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: Questions about my new fish and snail...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8549 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8550 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: Questions about my new fish and snail...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8551 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: Questions about my new fish and snail...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8552 From: CRAIG DAVISON Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: LOL
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8553 From: helen572 Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: LOL
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8554 From: CRAIG DAVISON Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: LOL
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8555 From: Aranel Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: Questions about my new fish and snail...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8556 From: ophiophthalmos Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8557 From: paul helms Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8558 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8559 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: LOL
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8560 From: thetropiclady Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Just joined
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8561 From: Steve Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: The Planted Tank Forum - ADA Gallery Pictures * My Trip To Japan* W
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8562 From: Steve Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: LOL
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8563 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Missing fish!!!!!!!!! no aggressive fish in tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8564 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: Missing fish!!!!!!!!! no aggressive fish in tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8565 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: Missing fish!!!!!!!!! no aggressive fish in tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8566 From: paul helms Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: Missing fish!!!!!!!!! no aggressive fish in tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8567 From: sdaccord03 Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: New photos on myreeftank.us
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8568 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: Missing fish!!!!!!!!! no aggressive fish in tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8569 From: Aaron Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: The Planted Tank Forum - ADA Gallery Pictures * My Trip To Japa
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8570 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Can i add two Bettas to my tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8571 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: Can i add two Bettas to my tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8572 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 2/16/2005
Subject: Re: Can i add two Bettas to my tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8573 From: Angela Date: 2/16/2005
Subject: Frog Died!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8574 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/16/2005
Subject: Re: Frog Died!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8575 From: paul helms Date: 2/16/2005
Subject: Re: Can i add two Bettas to my tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8576 From: eggybumstu Date: 2/16/2005
Subject: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8577 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/16/2005
Subject: Re: Can i add two Bettas to my tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8578 From: EDITHAN1@AOL.COM Date: 2/16/2005
Subject: expanding on betta subject
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8579 From: eggybumstu Date: 2/16/2005
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8580 From: eggybumstu Date: 2/16/2005
Subject: Re: Can i add two Bettas to my tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8581 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/16/2005
Subject: Re: expanding on betta subject
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8582 From: EDITHAN1@AOL.COM Date: 2/16/2005
Subject: Re: expanding on betta subject
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8583 From: Aaron Date: 2/16/2005
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8584 From: Aaron Date: 2/16/2005
Subject: Re: expanding on betta subject
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8585 From: Aaron Date: 2/16/2005
Subject: Re: Just joined
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8586 From: Aranel Date: 2/16/2005
Subject: Re: Can i add two Bettas to my tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8587 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/16/2005
Subject: Re: Can i add two Bettas to my tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8588 From: eggybumstu Date: 2/16/2005
Subject: Re: expanding on betta question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8589 From: eggybumstu Date: 2/16/2005
Subject: Re: just joined
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8590 From: eggybumstu Date: 2/16/2005
Subject: Re: tank mates for parrots and kissing gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8591 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Can i add two Bettas to my tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8592 From: LauriT Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Per responses about ghost knife fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8593 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Per responses about ghost knife fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8594 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: expanding on betta subject
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8595 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Per responses about ghost knife fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8596 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Per responses about ghost knife fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8597 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Per responses about ghost knife fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8598 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Per responses about ghost knife fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8599 From: paul helms Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Per responses about ghost knife fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8600 From: paul helms Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Per responses about ghost knife fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8601 From: Angela Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Another Question - I do have so many!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8602 From: sdaccord03 Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8603 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Nim's pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8604 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Per responses about ghost knife fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8605 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Nim's pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8606 From: dragon6435@aol.com Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8607 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8608 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Digest Number 613 - KEEPING MALE BETTAS TOGETHER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8609 From: gracefullnature Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Nim (was Re: expanding on betta subject)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8610 From: dragon6435@aol.com Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8611 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8612 From: Amalthea Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8613 From: wayne carter Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8614 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8615 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8616 From: eggybumstu Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Them pesky snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8617 From: paul helms Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8618 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8619 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: Re: Them pesky snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8620 From: brucestay@aol.com Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: Nim's pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8621 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: Need advice - sick fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8622 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: Freshwater to Brackish conversion
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8623 From: Angela Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: Loaches for Snail issue
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8624 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: Re: Loaches for Snail issue
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8625 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: Re: Loaches for Snail issue
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8626 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8627 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8628 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: The SF Bay Area Killifish Association Quarterly Meeting, 2/19/2005,
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8629 From: paul helms Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8630 From: paul helms Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: Re: Loaches for Snail issue
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8631 From: Steve Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: Re: Freshwater to Brackish conversion
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8632 From: Aaron Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8633 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: San Francisco Aquarium Society (SFAS), 3/4/2005, 7:30 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8634 From: paul helms Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8635 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: Re: San Francisco Aquarium Society  (SFAS), 3/4/2005, 7:30 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8636 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/19/2005
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] San Francisco Aquarium Society  (SFAS), 3/4/2005
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8637 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/19/2005
Subject: Aquabid-Panaque suttoni/suttonorum. N.Cali
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8638 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/19/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8639 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/19/2005
Subject: Tank Logbook
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8640 From: sdaccord03 Date: 2/19/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8641 From: sdaccord03 Date: 2/19/2005
Subject: Re: Tank Logbook
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8642 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/19/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8643 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/19/2005
Subject: Re: Tank Logbook
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8644 From: jammerjr41 Date: 2/19/2005
Subject: Snails and Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8645 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/19/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8646 From: freedombell2002 Date: 2/19/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8647 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/19/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8648 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 2/19/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8649 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/19/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8650 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/19/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8651 From: paul helms Date: 2/19/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8652 From: paul helms Date: 2/19/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8653 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/19/2005
Subject: Re: Aquabid-Panaque suttoni/suttonorum. N.Cali
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8654 From: pickles Date: 2/19/2005
Subject: AquaBid.com
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8655 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/20/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8656 From: Amalthea Date: 2/20/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8657 From: paul helms Date: 2/20/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8658 From: paul helms Date: 2/20/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8659 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 2/20/2005
Subject: Re: Snails and Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8660 From: dreammaker2623 Date: 2/20/2005
Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8661 From: jammerjr41 Date: 2/20/2005
Subject: Re: Snails and Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8662 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/20/2005
Subject: Re: AquaBid.com
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8663 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/20/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8664 From: Aaron Date: 2/20/2005
Subject: I need some advice!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8665 From: Angela Date: 2/20/2005
Subject: Are my fish sick?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8666 From: paul helms Date: 2/20/2005
Subject: Re: Are my fish sick?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8667 From: paul helms Date: 2/20/2005
Subject: Re: I need some advice!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8668 From: paul helms Date: 2/20/2005
Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8669 From: Angela Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Water Test Results
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8670 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: Water Test Results
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8671 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: Water Test Results
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8672 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: Water Test Results
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8673 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: Water Test Results
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8674 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: Water Test Results
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8675 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: Water Test Results
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8676 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: Water Test Results
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8677 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: Water Test Results
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8678 From: chelcecats@ameritech.net Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Betta's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8679 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: Water Test Results
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8680 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: Water Test Results
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8681 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Weather/Dojo Loaches
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8682 From: eggybumstu Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: Betta's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8683 From: Colleen Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: new
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8684 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: Snails and Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8685 From: paul helms Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: new
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8686 From: infomehlb Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Potted plants in an established tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8687 From: ben_noreau Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Green Algae
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8688 From: Carly Smith Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Water change results and weather loach
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8689 From: Ben Noreau Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: Green Algae
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8690 From: Gary Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: Water Test Results
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8691 From: eric douglas Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: new
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8692 From: Elizabeth Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: Snails and Ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8693 From: Elizabeth Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: new
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8694 From: sdaccord03 Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: LiveAquaria.com
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8695 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: new
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8696 From: photo_muse Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Upside-down Catfish (was: Water Test Results)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8697 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 2/21/2005
Subject: Re: Water Test Results
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8698 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 2/22/2005
Subject: Re: Potted plants in an established tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8699 From: rojeriko Date: 2/22/2005
Subject: SAE vs. Flag fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8700 From: Anne Date: 2/22/2005
Subject: Re: Betta's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8701 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/23/2005
Subject: Tank Setup
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8702 From: aquababy_1958 Date: 2/23/2005
Subject: discus
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8703 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/23/2005
Subject: Re: discus
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8704 From: paul helms Date: 2/23/2005
Subject: Re: Tank Setup
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8705 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/23/2005
Subject: Re: Tank Setup
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8706 From: Elizabeth Date: 2/23/2005
Subject: Zebra Danias & Bullying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8707 From: Loie Date: 2/23/2005
Subject: Re: discus
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8708 From: shortlid Date: 2/23/2005
Subject: Want something diff. for my 30 gal.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8709 From: Loie Date: 2/23/2005
Subject: Re: discus
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8710 From: raleighaquariumsociety Date: 2/23/2005
Subject: Raleigh Aquarium society Annual Workshop & Auction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8711 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/23/2005
Subject: Re: discus -> cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8712 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/23/2005
Subject: California Betta Society , 2/26/2005, 2:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8713 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/23/2005
Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting, 3/5/2005, 6:30 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8714 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/23/2005
Subject: Re: Zebra Danias & Bullying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8715 From: dragon6435@aol.com Date: 2/23/2005
Subject: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8716 From: Elizabeth Date: 2/23/2005
Subject: Re: Zebra Danias & Bullying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8717 From: paul helms Date: 2/23/2005
Subject: Re: Tank Setup
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8718 From: eggybumstu Date: 2/23/2005
Subject: Re: American flagfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8719 From: daniel_roachus Date: 2/24/2005
Subject: Re: Want something diff. for my 30 gal.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8720 From: Kimberly Date: 2/24/2005
Subject: Angel Fish died with no apparent cause
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8721 From: shortlid Date: 2/24/2005
Subject: Re: Want something diff. for my 30 gal.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8722 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/24/2005
Subject: Re: Want something diff. for my 30 gal.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8723 From: jcarter4490 Date: 2/24/2005
Subject: Re: Angel Fish died with no apparent cause
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8724 From: AL Date: 2/24/2005
Subject: Cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8725 From: infomehlb Date: 2/24/2005
Subject: CO2 injection
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8726 From: Kimberly Date: 2/24/2005
Subject: Re: Angel Fish died with no apparent cause
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8727 From: Amalthea Date: 2/24/2005
Subject: Re: CO2 injection
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8728 From: Amalthea Date: 2/24/2005
Subject: Re: Angel Fish died with no apparent cause
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8729 From: Jeremy Carter Date: 2/24/2005
Subject: Re: Angel Fish died with no apparent cause
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8730 From: greywolfmm Date: 2/24/2005
Subject: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8731 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/24/2005
Subject: Re: Cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8732 From: Angela Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: My Water Test Results
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8733 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: Re: My Water Test Results
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8734 From: craig davison Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: NEWBIE log book programme
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8735 From: Julie Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: New Tank, maybe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8736 From: Jeremy Carter Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8737 From: Fish Gurl Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: Re: NEWBIE log book programme
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8738 From: cody adams Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8739 From: paul helms Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: Re: help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8740 From: paul helms Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: Re: NEWBIE log book programme
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8741 From: greywolfmm Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8742 From: magmarron1 Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: The Ben Doran Foundation for the Arts and Sciences
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8743 From: infomehlb Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: Re: CO2 injection
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8744 From: Amalthea Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: Re: CO2 injection
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8745 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: Fwd: [AquaticLife] help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8746 From: Jeremy Carter Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8747 From: beckeehurdle Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: I'm new!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8748 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: Re: My Water Test Results
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8749 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: Re: My Water Test Results
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8750 From: greywolfmm Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8751 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8752 From: worship_hedvvwig Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: who's eggs?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8753 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: Re: Zebra Danias & Bullying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8754 From: paul helms Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: Re: who's eggs?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8755 From: Aranel Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: Homemade substrate?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8756 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Re: Homemade substrate?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8757 From: Loie Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Re: Homemade substrate?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8758 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8759 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8760 From: Jeremy Carter Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8761 From: Donna Ransome Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: 29 gallon mbuna tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8762 From: ben olds Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Re: 29 gallon mbuna tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8763 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Re: 29 gallon mbuna tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8764 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Re: 29 gallon mbuna tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8765 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Re: 29 gallon mbuna tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8766 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Re: 29 gallon mbuna tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8767 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Re: 29 gallon (Anubias plant)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8768 From: TankGurl Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Intro
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8769 From: harry perry Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Re: Homemade substrate?/To Aranel
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8770 From: AL Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8771 From: Carly Smith Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Request
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8772 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Re: Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8773 From: paul helms Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Re: Request
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8774 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Re: 29 gallon (Anubias plant)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8775 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Pacific Coast Cichlid Association , 3/12/2005, 7:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8776 From: Amalthea Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Re: Homemade substrate?/To Aranel
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8777 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Re: Request
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8778 From: Donna Ransome Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: Re: 29 gallon mbuna tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8779 From: mfathim78 Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: fish species
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8780 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: Fry with deformed tail???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8781 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: PS. Fry with deformed tail???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8782 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: Re: Fry with deformed tail???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8783 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: Re: Fry with deformed tail???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8784 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: Digest Number 625 - CUT & PASTE/COPY & PASTE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8785 From: Carly Smith Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: Re: Request.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8786 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 625
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8787 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 625 CUT & PASTE/COPY $ PASTE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8788 From: AJOgg@yahoo.com Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: Re: Fry with deformed tail???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8789 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: Re: Request.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8790 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: Re: Fry with deformed tail???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8791 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: lyretail guppy
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8792 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: San Francisco Aquarium Society (SFAS), 3/4/2005, 7:30 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8793 From: greywolfmm Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: Tiger barbs swimming nose down
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8794 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: Re: Tiger barbs swimming nose down
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8795 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: Fry with deformed tail???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8796 From: shortlid Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: Want something diff. for my 30 gal.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8797 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: (Want something diff) Shell Dwellers
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8798 From: joequality1980 Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: fish species
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8799 From: joequality1980 Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: (Want something diff) Shell Dwellers
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8800 From: Aaron Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: Request
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8801 From: Aaron Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 625 CUT & PASTE/COPY $ PASTE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8802 From: Aaron Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: Request.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8803 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: fish species
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8804 From: antonios75@yahoo.com Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Tank of the month, March
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8805 From: Anne Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: best for cories?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8806 From: Anne Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: new here
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8807 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: best for cories?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8808 From: harry perry Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: Tank of the month, March/ beautiful!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8809 From: paul helms Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: Tank of the month, March/ beautiful!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8810 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: HELP - Shark tail fin red color
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8811 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: HELP - Shark tail fin red color
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8812 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: HELP - Shark tail fin red color
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8813 From: Anne Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: best for cories?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8814 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: best for cories?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8815 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: New Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8816 From: Rosahoic Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Freeze Dried Bloodworms...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8817 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: new here
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8818 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: New Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8819 From: Anne Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: tiny url
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8820 From: Anne Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: best for cories
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8821 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: New Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8822 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: New Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8823 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: New Tank - Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8824 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: Freeze Dried Bloodworms...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8825 From: Steve Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: tiny url
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8826 From: Kevin Teague Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: Tiger barbs swimming nose down
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8827 From: Lauri Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: HELP - Shark tail fin red color
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8828 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: New Tank - Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8829 From: paul helms Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: Tiger barbs swimming nose down
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8830 From: paul helms Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: Freeze Dried Bloodworms...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8831 From: Kevin Teague Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: Tiger barbs swimming nose down
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8832 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: best for cories
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8833 From: paul helms Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: Tiger barbs swimming nose down
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8834 From: paul helms Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: snail question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8835 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: Fry with deformed tail???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8836 From: Kevin Teague Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: Tiger barbs swimming nose down
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8837 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: snail question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8838 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/2/2005
Subject: Re: New Tank - Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8839 From: daniel_roachus Date: 3/2/2005
Subject: Re: New Tank, maybe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8840 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/2/2005
Subject: Re: New Tank - Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8841 From: paul helms Date: 3/2/2005
Subject: Re: New Tank - Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8842 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/2/2005
Subject: Re: New Tank - Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8843 From: Julie Date: 3/2/2005
Subject: Re: New Tank, maybe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8844 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/2/2005
Subject: Re: New Tank - Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8845 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/2/2005
Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting, 3/5/2005, 6:30 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8846 From: Angela Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8847 From: TankGurl Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8848 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8849 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8850 From: stahnke923 Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: khuli loaches doing poorly
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8851 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8852 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8853 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Re: khuli loaches doing poorly
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8854 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8855 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8856 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8857 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Southern California societies?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8858 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Re: khuli loaches doing poorly
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8859 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Re: Southern California societies?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8860 From: Steve Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8861 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8862 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Re: khuli loaches doing poorly
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8863 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Re: Southern California societies?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8864 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Re: khuli loaches doing poorly
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8865 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA), 3/18/2005, 12:00 am
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8866 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/4/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8867 From: Steve Date: 3/4/2005
Subject: Re: The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA), 3/18/2005, 12:00 am
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8868 From: eggybumstu Date: 3/4/2005
Subject: Re: khuli loaches doing poorly
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8869 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8870 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/4/2005
Subject: Re: Southern California societies?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8871 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/4/2005
Subject: Elephant noses
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8872 From: Aaron Date: 3/4/2005
Subject: Societys, Clubs, Associations, Councils (was Re: Southern Californi
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8873 From: Steve Date: 3/4/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8874 From: Steve Date: 3/4/2005
Subject: Re: Societys, Clubs, Associations, Councils (was Re: Southern Calif
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8875 From: Steve Date: 3/4/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8876 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/4/2005
Subject: Re: Societys, Clubs, Associations, Councils (was Re: Southern C...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8877 From: Aaron Date: 3/4/2005
Subject: AquariumHobbyist Guest Chats Tonight!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8878 From: Aaron Date: 3/4/2005
Subject: Special Guest Chats Friday, March 4!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8879 From: Aaron Date: 3/4/2005
Subject: Events This Week
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8880 From: Aaron Date: 3/4/2005
Subject: aquarium society meeting or event information.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8881 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/4/2005
Subject: The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA), 3/19/2005, 12:00 am
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8882 From: la_rmarquezjr Date: 3/5/2005
Subject: aquarium plant swap anyone?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8883 From: CRAIG DAVISON Date: 3/5/2005
Subject: Re: aquarium plant swap anyone?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8884 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 3/5/2005
Subject: Re: aquarium plant swap anyone?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8885 From: Eric Miner Date: 3/5/2005
Subject: Starter plants and fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8886 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/5/2005
Subject: SEABay, 3/19/2005, 7:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8887 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/5/2005
Subject: Southern California Marine Aquarium Society , 3/18/2005, 7:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8888 From: CBlnds8@aol.com Date: 3/5/2005
Subject: Have a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8889 From: adam_yg_ciamik Date: 3/5/2005
Subject: Hiii..... new kids on block.....hehehehe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8890 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/5/2005
Subject: The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA), 3/20/2005, 12:00 am
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8891 From: Terry Date: 3/6/2005
Subject: Question on Id Sharks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8892 From: shailendra Indulkar Date: 3/6/2005
Subject: all males tilapia
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8893 From: Steve Date: 3/6/2005
Subject: Re: all males tilapia
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8894 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/6/2005
Subject: Re: Starter plants and fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8895 From: AL Date: 3/6/2005
Subject: Re: Have a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8896 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/6/2005
Subject: Re: Tiger barbs swimming nose down
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8897 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/6/2005
Subject: Fin rot
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8898 From: bob Date: 3/6/2005
Subject: tanks for sale in TN
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8899 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/6/2005
Subject: Re: tanks for sale in TN
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8900 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 3/6/2005
Subject: Re: tanks for sale in TN
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8901 From: paul helms Date: 3/6/2005
Subject: Re: Tiger barbs swimming nose down
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8902 From: mrfabus Date: 3/6/2005
Subject: Snowflake eels and gar pike
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8903 From: paul helms Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Re: Snowflake eels and gar pike
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8904 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8905 From: kilmca Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Tank for sale in Maryland
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8906 From: paul helms Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8907 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: MarineBio chat , 3/7/2005, 5:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8908 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8909 From: mrfabus Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Re: Snowflake eels and gar pike
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8910 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8911 From: Rob And Joyce Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: THANKS FOR THE INVITE!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8912 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8913 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8914 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Re: THANKS FOR THE INVITE!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8915 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8916 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8917 From: m senter Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Re: Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8918 From: Steve Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8919 From: eric douglas Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Re: Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8920 From: m senter Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Re: Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8921 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: yabbies in a community tank? good/bad idea?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8922 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Re: Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8923 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Re: THANKS FOR THE INVITE!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8924 From: paul helms Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Re: Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8925 From: paul helms Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Re: Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8926 From: paul helms Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Re: Snowflake eels and gar pike
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8927 From: mrfabus Date: 3/7/2005
Subject: Snowflake eels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8929 From: Amalthea Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: cories question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8930 From: Steve Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: cories question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8931 From: Elyse Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Best substrate and lighting for plant tanks??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8932 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Best substrate and lighting for plant tanks??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8934 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: cories question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8935 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Snowflake eels and gar pike
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8936 From: mrfabus Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: snowflake eels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8937 From: TC@};- Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Newbie w/Q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8938 From: Jeff Jones Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8939 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Hi all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8940 From: TC@};- Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q/Jeff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8941 From: peiperco Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8942 From: Charlene Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: HI I need some help again,
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8943 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8944 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Hi all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8945 From: Eric Miner Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8946 From: TC@};- Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q/Ron
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8947 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Hi all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8948 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8949 From: Jenny & Wayne Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Thanks for the invitation
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8950 From: paintspatter@comcast.net Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: New Member Intro
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8951 From: Steve Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8952 From: dawana325 Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: African Dwarf Frogs - HELP (cross-post)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8953 From: Steve Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8954 From: Eric Miner Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Lighting - How many watts/gallon?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8955 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q/Ron
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8956 From: TC@};- Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q/Jeff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8957 From: wayne carter Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Tank for sale in Maryland
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8958 From: m senter Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8959 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8960 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8961 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8962 From: anil abraham Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Help African Peacock
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8963 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: African Dwarf Frogs - HELP (cross-post)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8964 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: New Member Intro
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8965 From: m senter Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8966 From: m senter Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8967 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: HI I need some help again,
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8968 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8969 From: m senter Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: south american dragon fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8970 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8971 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: south american dragon fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8972 From: m senter Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8973 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
Subject: Re: cories question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8974 From: paul helms Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8975 From: paul helms Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8976 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: tank smells very plant like
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8977 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Re: tank smells very plant like
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8978 From: Rob And Joyce Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Warning to AllGlass tank owners.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8979 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Re: Viquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8980 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8981 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Re: African Dwarf Frogs - HELP (cross-post)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8982 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8983 From: mrfabus Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: question about fresh water eels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8984 From: paintspatter@comcast.net Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Re: New Member Intro
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8985 From: ctmh@wyoming.com Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Help, sick tetra
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8986 From: Aaron Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Crayfish (was - Re: Hi all)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8987 From: Aaron Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Re: Lighting - How many watts/gallon?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8988 From: Aaron Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Re: Thanks for the invitation
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8989 From: TC@};- Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q/Ray
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8990 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Re: Crayfish (was - Re: Hi all)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8991 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Crayfish (was - Re: Hi all)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8992 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Crayfish (was - Re: Hi all)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8993 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Pacific Coast Cichlid Association , 3/12/2005, 7:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8994 From: Venus Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Hello - New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8995 From: Anne Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8996 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Re: Hello - New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8997 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8998 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8999 From: paul helms Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9000 From: eggybumstu Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Re: question about fresh water eels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9001 From: eggybumstu Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: Re: Help, sick tetra
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9002 From: mrfabus Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: question about fresh water eels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9003 From: jazz Date: 3/9/2005
Subject: guppies problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9004 From: Dom Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Re: Lighting - How many watts/gallon?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9005 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Re: Lighting - How many watts/gallon?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9006 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q/Ray
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9007 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q/Ray
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9008 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9009 From: helen572 Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Blue crayfish (response to earlier post)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9010 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Re: Blue crayfish (response to earlier post)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9011 From: Rosahoic Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Trying Live Plants for the first time..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9012 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9013 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9014 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: MarineBio chat , 3/10/2005, 5:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9015 From: mrfabus Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: new question about snowflake eels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9016 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9017 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9018 From: Venus Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Too cute...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9019 From: Venus Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Freshwater Puffer Fish ?????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9020 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9021 From: Ben Noreau Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Breeding swordtails and mollys.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9022 From: Ben Noreau Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9023 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9024 From: Aaron Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Re: Hello - New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9025 From: paul helms Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9026 From: Steve Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9027 From: paul helms Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9028 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: The San Diego Tropical Fish Society , 3/13/2005, 7:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9029 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9030 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9031 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9032 From: mrfabus Date: 3/10/2005
Subject: need info please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9033 From: shillingcat1@juno.com Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9034 From: m senter Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9035 From: paul helms Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9036 From: paul helms Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: need info please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9037 From: Steve Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: FW: Monday Mar 14th!!! Mark Denaro - "The Planted Aquarium"
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9038 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9039 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9040 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Rescued a tank * PICS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9041 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Dying fish * Pic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9042 From: eggybumstu Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Freshwater Puffer Fish ?????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9043 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9044 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Snowflake eels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9045 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Dying fish * Pic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9046 From: paul helms Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9047 From: paul helms Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9048 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9049 From: Julie Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9050 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Freshwater Puffer Fish ?????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9051 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Fish idenitity? PIC
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9052 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Fish idenitity? PIC
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9053 From: messenger_of_the_light Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Bloated rosy barb
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9054 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9055 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9056 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Digest Number 642 - DANIO DEVARIO
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9057 From: AL Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9058 From: AL Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9059 From: Steve Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9060 From: Elyse Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Fish idenitity? PIC
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9061 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 3/11/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9062 From: TankGurl Date: 3/12/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, RE: Salt additive & gravel cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9063 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/12/2005
Subject: Re: "aquarium salt" -> WHY?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9064 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/12/2005
Subject: Re: "aquarium salt" -> WHY?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9065 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/12/2005
Subject: Re: "aquarium salt" -> WHY?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9066 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/12/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9067 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 3/13/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9068 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/13/2005
Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9069 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/13/2005
Subject: Southern California Killi Club, 3/26/2005, 7:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9070 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/14/2005
Subject: MarineBio chat , 3/14/2005, 5:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9071 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/14/2005
Subject: Fish tank update: 1 w/ white growth & 1 pregnant
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9072 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/14/2005
Subject: Re: Fish tank update: 1 w/ white growth & 1 pregnant
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9073 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/14/2005
Subject: Re: Valeen
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9074 From: Aaron Alcoholic Date: 3/14/2005
Subject: Re: Fish idenitity? PIC
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9075 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/14/2005
Subject: Re: "aquarium salt" -> WHY?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9076 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/14/2005
Subject: Re: "aquarium salt" -> WHY?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9077 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/14/2005
Subject: Re: Fish tank update: 1 w/ white growth & 1 pregnant
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9078 From: mnminiman88 Date: 3/14/2005
Subject: Need information on Oscars.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9079 From: Corinna Nilson Date: 3/14/2005
Subject: Re: "aquarium salt" -> WHY?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9080 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/14/2005
Subject: Re: Need information on Oscars.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9081 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/14/2005
Subject: The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA), 3/18/2005, 12:00 am
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9082 From: paul helms Date: 3/14/2005
Subject: Re: Need information on Oscars.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9083 From: paul helms Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: Re: "aquarium salt" -> WHY?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9084 From: renee31477 Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: offering 5 gallon set up with fish/snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9085 From: Bev Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: Newbie with Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9086 From: Bev Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9087 From: bigter4@yahoo.com Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: Moving!.....and gotta move the tank!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9088 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: Re: Moving!.....and gotta move the tank!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9089 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie with Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9090 From: Eric Miner Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: Mixing schooling fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9091 From: mnminiman88 Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: Oscars
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9092 From: Jeremy Carter Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: Re: Mixing schooling fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9093 From: bigter4@yahoo.com Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: Re: Moving!.....and gotta move the tank!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9094 From: Dawana Branch Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: Re: Oscars
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9095 From: aquababy_1958 Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: java moss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9096 From: lesakalez Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: Giant Danio exhibiting chameleon like behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9097 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: Southern California Marine Aquarium Society , 3/18/2005, 7:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9098 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: Re: java moss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9099 From: Dominic Song Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: Re: java moss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9100 From: julie_hash Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: Re: Oscars
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9101 From: jazz Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9102 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA), 3/19/2005, 12:00 am
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9103 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9104 From: SuNnY Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9105 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: snails and Bleach
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9106 From: jazz Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: snails and Bleach
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9107 From: paul helms Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9108 From: paul helms Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: java moss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9109 From: Loie Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: java moss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9110 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Surface scum
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9111 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Surface scum
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9112 From: paul helms Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Surface scum
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9113 From: paul helms Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: java moss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9114 From: ben olds Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: java moss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9115 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: java moss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9116 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9117 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: java moss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9118 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Giant Danio exhibiting chameleon like behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9119 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9120 From: harry perry Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Snails/Did you try???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9121 From: Marius E. Gaybba Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Organic Aqauriums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9122 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: java moss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9123 From: Valerie Bogert Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: emails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9124 From: Amalthea Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: java moss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9125 From: Aaron Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: emails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9126 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: java moss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9128 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Lockable Tank Hood
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9129 From: Audrey Archer Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Pest Snails - New Topic: Endlers Swordtails?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9130 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Mean Blood Parrot
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9131 From: Amalthea Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Mean Blood Parrot
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9132 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: java moss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9133 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9134 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Lockable Tank Hood
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9135 From: m senter Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Lockable Tank Hood
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9136 From: gracefullnature Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9137 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: SEABay, 3/19/2005, 7:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9138 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9139 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums (why bother!)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9140 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Lockable Tank Hood
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9141 From: jason stone Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9142 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Lockable Tank Hood
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9143 From: Amalthea Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9144 From: killerb7111964 Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9145 From: lesakalez Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Giant Danio exhibiting chameleon like behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9146 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9147 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9148 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Giant Danio exhibiting chameleon like behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9149 From: Aaron Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9150 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Lockable Tank Hood( coffee )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9151 From: julie_hash Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9152 From: jazz Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Surface scum
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9153 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA), 3/20/2005, 12:00 am
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9154 From: jazz Date: 3/16/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9155 From: SuNnY Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9156 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: New to Group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9157 From: Pat Jellison Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Clown Loaches and Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9158 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Stacey's Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9159 From: jazz Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: New to Group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9160 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: New Aquarium - Input on design...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9161 From: Genevieve Floberg Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: Stacey's Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9162 From: Genevieve Floberg Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: New to Group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9163 From: Genevieve Floberg Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: New to Group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9164 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Alan
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9165 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: geneveva
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9166 From: Genevieve Floberg Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: geneveva
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9167 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Stacey's Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9168 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: java moss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9169 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: MarineBio chat , 3/17/2005, 5:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9170 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9171 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9172 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9173 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: Lockable Tank Hood
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9174 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Genevieve
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9175 From: Aaron Alcoholic Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Fwd: Oraganic Aquariums, Bio Clean and Life Giving Enterprises
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9176 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: breeder screen
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9177 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9178 From: m senter Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: breeder screen
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9179 From: paul helms Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: Clown Loaches and Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9180 From: paul helms Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9181 From: paul helms Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: java moss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9182 From: SuNnY Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: Clown Loaches and Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9183 From: paul helms Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: java moss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9184 From: Anne Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: Stacey's Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9185 From: Loie Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: java moss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9186 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: Lockable Tank Hood
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9187 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/17/2005
Subject: Re: Lockable Tank Hood
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9188 From: Genevieve Floberg Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Re: Genevieve
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9189 From: valbogert01 Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: bug bombs and fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9190 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Re: bug bombs and fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9191 From: aclaar877 Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Planted Aquarium / Cloudy Water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9192 From: dawana325 Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Locked Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9193 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium / Cloudy Water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9194 From: Genevieve Floberg Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium / Cloudy Water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9195 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Re: Locked Aquariums - Dawana & Bruce
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9196 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Firemouth in pairs?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9197 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Sick fish turned white? Pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9198 From: aclaar877 Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium / Cloudy Water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9199 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Re: Sick fish turned white? Pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9200 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium / Cloudy Water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9201 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: new to group/question about betas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9202 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: San Francisco Aquarium Society (SFAS), 4/1/2005, 7:30 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9203 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Re: Sick fish turned white? Pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9204 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Re: Sick fish turned white? Pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9205 From: FrankTimJr@comcast.net Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Fishless Cycling Not Working
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9206 From: Marius E. Gaybba Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Organic Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9207 From: Aaron Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Amazon Swords Dying?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9208 From: Marius E. Gaybba Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Organic Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9209 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling Not Working
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9210 From: Norman. S. Hampson. Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9211 From: Marius Gaybba Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9212 From: Norman. S. Hampson. Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9213 From: Marius Gaybba Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9214 From: Marius E. Gaybba Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: I hope this will get people of my case.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9215 From: paul helms Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9216 From: paul helms Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9217 From: paul helms Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling Not Working
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9218 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: I hope this will get people of my case.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9219 From: Marius Gaybba Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: I hope this will get people of my case.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9220 From: steve@familyszabo.com Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: AFM Buys FAMA
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9221 From: Norman. S. Hampson. Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: I hope this will get people of my case.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9222 From: Eli's Lover Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Organic Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9223 From: Anne Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: new to group/question about betas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9224 From: Anne Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: red fin shark
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9225 From: paul helms Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: I hope this will get people of my case.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9226 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: AFM Buys FAMA
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9227 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling Not Working
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9228 From: harry perry Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: To Aaron, Marius and all.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9229 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Tank cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9230 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: To Aaron, Marius and all.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9231 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: Tank cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9232 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: Tank cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9233 From: harry perry Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: To Aaron, Marius and all./To Nim
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9234 From: ronaldhansen2003 Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Free gravel NYC area
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9235 From: Tricia Wilkerson Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: ideas for our 29 gal. tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9236 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9237 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9238 From: Aaron Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: ancistrus (was - Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9239 From: Aaron Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Luo Han
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9240 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9241 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9242 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: Luo Han
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9243 From: Aaron Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: Sounds fishy to me. :-)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9244 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: ancistrus (was - Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9245 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: ancistrus (was RE:ideas for our 29 gal. tank)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9246 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: AFM Buys FAMA
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9247 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Luo Han= flowerhorn
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9248 From: Aaron Date: 3/19/2005
Subject: Re: red fin shark
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9249 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9250 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9251 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9252 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9253 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9254 From: TankGurl Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: Tank cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9255 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: info on guppy and mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9256 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: Luo Han= flowerhorn
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9257 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: Luo Han
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9258 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: AFM Buys FAMA
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9259 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: Luo Han
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9260 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: Luo Han
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9261 From: Denise Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: Sounds fishy to me. :-)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9262 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Using Peat in a Filter - Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9263 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: Sounds fishy to me. :-)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9264 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: Luo Han
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9265 From: Amalthea Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: Luo Han
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9266 From: Denise Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: info on guppy and mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9267 From: Aaron Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: Sounds fishy to me. :-)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9268 From: Snow Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9269 From: fastest350z Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9270 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Fish has a brown spot?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9271 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: Fish has a brown spot?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9272 From: Steve Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: Using Peat in a Filter - Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9273 From: Amalthea Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: Fish has a brown spot?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9274 From: mrfabus Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: snowflake eel question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9275 From: mrfabus Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: I forgot about the snowflake eels more info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9276 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: New Member-Snow
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9277 From: Steve Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9278 From: Steve Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: AFM Buys FAMA
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9279 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9280 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: water tester ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9281 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: water tester ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9282 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: water tester ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9283 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9284 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9285 From: shailendra Indulkar Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Hi & Thanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9286 From: shailendra Indulkar Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Sex in fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9287 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: water tester ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9288 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: water tester ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9289 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9290 From: Genevieve Floberg Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9291 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Using Peat in a Filter - Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9292 From: Tricia Wilkerson Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9293 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9294 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots/Ammonia
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9295 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9296 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9297 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9298 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9299 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Tank cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9300 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9301 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Blood Parrots Spot problem not a problem/ 2 week tank question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9302 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9303 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: new to group/question about betas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9304 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: new to group/question about betas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9305 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9306 From: infomehlb Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9307 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: new to group/question about betas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9308 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: new to group/question about betas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9309 From: A J Myers Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: New member:can't sort out my problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9310 From: TankGurl Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9311 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9312 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9313 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9314 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9315 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9316 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9317 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9318 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9319 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9320 From: Karima Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9321 From: sue_s32134 Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: New member question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9322 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Hello everyone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9323 From: Karima Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9324 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9325 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9326 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9327 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9328 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Pleco gone pale, within the last 2 hours. Need some answers please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9329 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: New member question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9330 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9331 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9332 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9333 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9334 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9335 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9336 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9337 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9338 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9339 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9340 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9341 From: Norman. S. Hampson. Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Sounds fishy to me. :-)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9342 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9343 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9344 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9345 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9346 From: Lief Brittan Youngs Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Algea Eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9347 From: Steve Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Using Peat in a Filter - Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9348 From: Steve Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9349 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Used to beAlgae eaters( bristlenose)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9350 From: Steve Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9351 From: Steve Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9352 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Algea Eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9353 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9354 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Pleco gone pale, within the last 2 hours. Need some answers pl
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9355 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9356 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9357 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9358 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9359 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Sounds fishy to me. :-)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9360 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: info on guppy and mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9361 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9362 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Tank cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9363 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: To Aaron, Marius and all.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9364 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Tank cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9365 From: antonios75@yahoo.com Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Photo of the Month Contest
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9366 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9367 From: Aaron Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Photo of the WEEK (was - ...Month Contest)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9368 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9369 From: harry perry Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: To Aaron, Marius and all./To Paul
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9370 From: eggybumstu Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: confused, Pleco needing bogwood
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9371 From: mrfabus Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: eels question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9372 From: Aaron Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: $1 otos (was "Re: confused")
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9373 From: jazz Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Algea Eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9374 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: $1 otos (was "Re: confused")
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9375 From: jazz Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9376 From: CBlnds8@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: water tester ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9377 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9378 From: Aaron Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9379 From: jazz Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9380 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9381 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: hi everyone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9382 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9383 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9384 From: daniel_roachus Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9385 From: Genevieve Floberg Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9386 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9387 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9388 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Algae eater-Thanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9389 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9390 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9391 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9392 From: TankGurl Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9393 From: FrankTimJr@comcast.net Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling Not Working
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9394 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Crossbreeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9395 From: infomehlb Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9396 From: Amalthea Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9397 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9398 From: Karima Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Otto's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9399 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Otto's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9400 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Otto websight
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9401 From: paul helms Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9402 From: paul helms Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9403 From: paul helms Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: $1 otos (was "Re: confused")
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9404 From: paul helms Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: To Aaron, Marius and all./To Paul
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9405 From: paul helms Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9406 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Wanting the picture of something...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9407 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Using Peat in a Filter - Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9408 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Using Peat in a Filter - Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9409 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9410 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9411 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: new to group/question about betas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9412 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9413 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9414 From: Aaron Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Wanting the picture of something...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9415 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Using Peat in a Filter - Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9416 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Help! ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9417 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: confused/Stacy
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9418 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9419 From: mnminiman88 Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: I need info with oscars
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9420 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9421 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Help! Missing Fiddler Crab!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9422 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9423 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9424 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9425 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9426 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Otto websight
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9427 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Wanting the picture of something...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9428 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9429 From: Amalthea Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: new to group/question about betas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9430 From: Anne Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: hi everyone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9431 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9432 From: Steve Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9433 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9434 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9435 From: paul helms Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9436 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9437 From: paul helms Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: aaron
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9438 From: bettamuse Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9439 From: dumont53 Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Nessage Sent in Error
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9440 From: dumont53 Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 660
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9441 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: I need info with oscars
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9442 From: jazz Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9443 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Help! Missing Fiddler Crab!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9444 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: hi everyone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9445 From: paul helms Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Help! Missing Fiddler Crab!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9446 From: paul helms Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9447 From: mrfabus Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9448 From: Amalthea Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9449 From: jazz Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9450 From: jazz Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9451 From: jazz Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: I need info with oscars
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9452 From: Aaron Alcoholic Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine (was - "Re: [AquaticLife] Blood P
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9453 From: jazz Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine (was - "Re: [AquaticLife] Blo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9454 From: Aaron Alcoholic Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9455 From: Aaron Alcoholic Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9456 From: Amalthea Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9457 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine (was - "Re: [AquaticLife] Blo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9458 From: jazz Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9459 From: jazz Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9460 From: Steve Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9461 From: Steve Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9462 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine (was - "Re: [AquaticLife] Blo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9463 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: I need info with oscars
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9464 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9465 From: jazz Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: study on dyde fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9466 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: The DYed and unnatural fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9467 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: I need info with oscars
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9468 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: curosity of Why I -
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9469 From: Genevieve Floberg Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9470 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9471 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: The only dumb question is the one not asked...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9472 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: The only dumb question is the one not asked...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9473 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: The only dumb question is the one not asked...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9474 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Help! Missing Fiddler Crab!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9475 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Help! Missing Fiddler Crab!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9476 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: new to group/question about betas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9477 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9478 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9479 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9480 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9481 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9482 From: Setiawan Budi Suwandi Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: New member.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9483 From: diz4555 Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9484 From: Amalthea Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9485 From: Amalthea Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9486 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9487 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9488 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9489 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9490 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9491 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: ~ JAZ
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9492 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9493 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9494 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9495 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Salt & Iodine
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9496 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9497 From: vzepga5w@verizon.net Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Salt & Iodine
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9498 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Salt & Iodine
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9499 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: ~ JAZ
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9500 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Salt & Iodine
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9501 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: ~ JAZ
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9502 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: ~ JAZ
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9503 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9504 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: ~ JAZ
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9505 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9506 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9507 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9508 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9509 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9510 From: Amalthea Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9511 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9512 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish - glowlight danios?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9513 From: m senter Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: question about mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9514 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9515 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: question about mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9516 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9517 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9518 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9519 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9520 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: question about mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9521 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9522 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9523 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9524 From: m senter Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: question about mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9525 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: The only dumb question is the one not asked...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9526 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: ~ JAZ
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9527 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9528 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: question about mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9529 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9530 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Discus
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9531 From: Loie Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Discus
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9532 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Discus
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9533 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Discus
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9534 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9535 From: Steve Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9536 From: A J Myers Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Pleco problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9537 From: Rosaholic Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: The only dumb question is the one not asked...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9538 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting, 4/2/2005, 6:30 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9539 From: mbyoung74 Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: bathtub as tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9540 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9541 From: Loie Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Discus
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9542 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Southern California Killi Club, 3/26/2005, 7:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9543 From: Steve Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: The only dumb question is the one not asked...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9544 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9545 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9546 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9547 From: Amalthea Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: glofish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9548 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: glofish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9549 From: antonios75@yahoo.com Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Tank of the Month
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9550 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9551 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: question about mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9552 From: m senter Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: question about mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9553 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9554 From: m senter Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9555 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9556 From: m senter Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9557 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9558 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: question about mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9559 From: m senter Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: question about mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9560 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9561 From: dragon.hunter@dragons-realm.net Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9562 From: jazz Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: ~ JAZ
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9563 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Discus
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9564 From: Aaron Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: ~ JAZ
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9565 From: Aaron Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9566 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9567 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9568 From: paul helms Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9569 From: paul helms Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9570 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: New poll for AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9571 From: Aaron Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: New poll for AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9572 From: Steve Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9573 From: Steve Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: glofish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9574 From: jazz Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9575 From: TankGurl Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: The only dumb question is the one not asked...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9576 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: glofish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9577 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: The only dumb question is the one not asked...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9578 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9579 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: glofish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9580 From: maryrich@nbnet.nb.ca Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Goldfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9581 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9582 From: Cosmo Knight Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: ~ JAZ
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9583 From: m senter Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9584 From: Guess? Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Sexing Rams and Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9585 From: Rob Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: hi
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9586 From: Loie Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: hi
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9588 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: hi Rob
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9589 From: bigter4@yahoo.com Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: Pleco problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9590 From: Robert Hickey Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: hi Rob
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9591 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: ~ JAZ
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9592 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: question about mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9593 From: Mariah Young Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9594 From: Steve Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: The only dumb question is the one not asked...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9595 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9596 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9597 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9598 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9599 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: Pleco problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9600 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: Pleco problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9601 From: Josef Ebejer Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: Sexing Rams and Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9602 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: Pleco problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9603 From: Amalthea Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: Pleco problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9604 From: paul helms Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9605 From: paul helms Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: glofish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9606 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: Pleco problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9607 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9608 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9609 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine (was - "Re: [AquaticLife] Blo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9610 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9611 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: glofish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9612 From: Aaron Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9613 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: American Livebearer Association (ALA) Convention, 4/8/2005, 12:00 a
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9614 From: paul helms Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: glofish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9615 From: paul helms Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9616 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9617 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: glofish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9618 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: glofish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9619 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9620 From: pam phetteplace Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Hi all New to group and fishkeeping....Piranahs on Oregon ....bo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9621 From: Ed Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: New to group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9622 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: New to group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9623 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9624 From: krampetz Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9625 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9626 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9627 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: New to group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9628 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: Pleco problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9629 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Timed feeders?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9630 From: Linda Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: New to the group as of 03/25/2005
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9631 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Blood Parrots ~ Black Spot Disease
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9632 From: Aaron Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: New to group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9633 From: Amalthea Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: Pleco problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9634 From: Ed Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: New to group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9635 From: helen572 Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: food for plecos
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9636 From: Aaron Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9637 From: Aaron Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9638 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: Pleco problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9639 From: Steve Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: Timed feeders?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9640 From: Fish Bloke Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9641 From: harry perry Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: hello/To Phil
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9642 From: Fish Bloke Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: hello/To Phil
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9643 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: comet fish-ASAP help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9644 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: comet fish-ASAP help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9645 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: comet fish-ASAP help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9646 From: Fish Bloke Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: comet fish-ASAP help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9647 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: New to group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9648 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: food for plecos
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9649 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: New poll for AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9650 From: Aaron Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9651 From: mofunnyfarm Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: Pleco problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9652 From: mofunnyfarm Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9653 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: American Livebearer Association (ALA) Convention, 4/9/2005, 12:00 a
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9654 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: New poll for AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9655 From: Fish Bloke Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9656 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9657 From: craig busby Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9658 From: Rachel Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: introducing myself
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9659 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Kansas City - HAAS Spring Auction, 4/2/2005, 1:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9660 From: J G Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9661 From: whatsdiggin Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Hi, I'm new to the group.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9662 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: introducing myself
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9663 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new to the group.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9664 From: racetwocrg Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: My Intro
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9665 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new to the group.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9666 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: introducing myself ( rachel )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9667 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: My Intro
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9668 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: hello ( Jason )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9669 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re My Intro ( Craig )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9670 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9671 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: New to the group as of 03/25/2005
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9672 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: Hi all New to group and fishkeeping....Piranahs on Oregon ..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9673 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: Goldfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9674 From: m senter Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9675 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: New member.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9676 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: eels question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9677 From: Rosaholic Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9678 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: Mixing schooling fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9679 From: craig busby Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: Re My Intro ( Craig )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9680 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie with Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9681 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: New member:can't sort out my problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9682 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: New member question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9683 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: Hi & Thanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9684 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: Sex in fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9685 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Questions about Amazon Swords Dying?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9686 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: offering 5 gallon set up with fish/snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9687 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: Stacey's Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9688 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: Endlers Swordtails?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9689 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: UGF (was- Re: hello)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9690 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: Blood parrot and brown spots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9691 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 663
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9692 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Pacific Coast Cichlid Association , 4/9/2005, 7:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9693 From: Lauri Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: Questions about Amazon Swords Dying?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9694 From: harry perry Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: Questions about Amazon Swords Dying?/To Aaron
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9695 From: Fish Bloke Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9696 From: Lauri Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Update on Violet Goby
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9697 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: SWIM BLADDER DISEASE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9698 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: Endlers Swordtails?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9699 From: Linda Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Triops Photos By Linda
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9700 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9701 From: scott johnston Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: hi all i am new to
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9702 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9703 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: Pleco problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9704 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9705 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: hi all i am new to
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9706 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9707 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9708 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: American Livebearer Association (ALA) Convention, 4/10/2005, 12:00
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9709 From: paul helms Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9710 From: paul helms Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9711 From: paul helms Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new to the group.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9712 From: paul helms Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: introducing myself
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9713 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9714 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9715 From: wendie Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9716 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Stacey's Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9717 From: Aaron Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Group Colors?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9718 From: whatsdiggin Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Hello, I'm to to the group.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9719 From: ruth eubanks Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new to the group.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9720 From: Steve Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Hello, I'm to to the group.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9721 From: Anne Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: new 30 gal.- stocking?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9722 From: paul helms Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new to the group.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9723 From: Anne Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9724 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: hi all i am new to(convicts)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9725 From: paul helms Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: hi all i am new to(convicts)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9726 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9727 From: amerpatrt Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: What is this?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9728 From: Melody Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Hello Everyone.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9729 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9730 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9731 From: harry perry Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: What is this?/To Dawn
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9732 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9733 From: CBlnds8@aol.com Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Hi Group I would like some advise
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9734 From: amerpatrt@aol.com Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: What is this?/To Dawn
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9735 From: harry perry Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: What is this?/To Dawn/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9736 From: Nan Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Intro to New Member.....Me!*LOL*
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9737 From: harry perry Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Intro to New Member.....Me!*LOL*/To Nan
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9738 From: amerpatrt@aol.com Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: What is this?/To Dawn/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9739 From: Rosaholic Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Follow-up questions on CO2...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9740 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Hello, I'm to to the group.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9741 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: new 30 gal.- stocking?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9742 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9743 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Snails (was - Re: What is this?/To Dawn/again)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9744 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Hi Group I would like some advise
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9745 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: What is this?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9746 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Intro to New Member.....Me!*LOL*
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9747 From: Ruthie&kritters Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: What is this?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9748 From: harry perry Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Snails (was - Re: What is this?/To Dawn/again)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9749 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 670
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9750 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9751 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Greater Chicago Cichlid Association, 4/10/2005, 7:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9752 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9753 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9754 From: Anne Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: new 30 gal.- stocking?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9755 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: San Francisco Aquarium Society (SFAS), 4/1/2005, 7:30 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9756 From: paul helms Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Snails (was - Re: What is this?/To Dawn/again)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9757 From: paul helms Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: What is this?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9758 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9759 From: bettamuse Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9760 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: American Livebearer Association (ALA) Convention, 4/11/2005, 12:00
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9761 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9762 From: CBlnds8@aol.com Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Re: Hi Group I would like some advise
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9763 From: TC@};- Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Hi I'm Back
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9764 From: StarWolf Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Re: Hi I'm Back
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9765 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Happy Easter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9766 From: infomehlb Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Old JetStream Prefecto Super Systems offered by Marineland
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9767 From: Lauri Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Re: Hi Group I would like some advise
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9768 From: pam phetteplace Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Betta question....re: almond leaf
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9769 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Re: Old JetStream Prefecto Super Systems offered by Marineland
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9770 From: CBlnds8@aol.com Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Re: Hi Group I would like some advise
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9771 From: infomehlb Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Re: Old JetStream Prefecto Super Systems offered by Marineland
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9772 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Re: Old JetStream Prefecto Super Systems offered by Marineland
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9773 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9774 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9775 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Melanochromis Dialeptos
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9776 From: bettamuse Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Re: Betta question....re: almond leaf
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9777 From: Rachel Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: betta tail biting?!?!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9778 From: Rachel Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Re: introducing myself ( rachel )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9779 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9780 From: Nan Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Re: Intro to New Member.....Me!*LOL*
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9781 From: Nan Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9782 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: The San Diego Tropical Fish Society , 4/10/2005, 7:00 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9783 From: valbogert01 Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Oto cat question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9784 From: Rachel Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: photos up!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9785 From: bettamuse Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9786 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9787 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Oto cat question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9788 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Melanochromis Dialeptos
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9789 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Daylight Savings Time Reminder-
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9790 From: ruth eubanks Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time Reminder-
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9791 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Melanochromis Dialeptos
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9792 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Ruth
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9793 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9794 From: rosette55@webtv.net Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Nimish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9795 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Nimish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9796 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Rainbow
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9797 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Melanochromis Dialeptos
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9798 From: Rachel Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9799 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Rainbow
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9800 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Oto cat question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9801 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9802 From: valbogert01 Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Oto cat question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9803 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Oto cat question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9804 From: Audrey Archer Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Swordtail Endlers and baby Convicts
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9805 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9806 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Rainbow
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9807 From: wendie Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9808 From: Nan Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 681
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9809 From: Linda Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Whisper Micro Filter and Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9810 From: Nan Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: I added....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9811 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Oto cat question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9812 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Whisper Micro Filter and Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9813 From: karima_allison Date: 3/30/2005
Subject: Birth Patterns of Platties
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9814 From: dawana325 Date: 3/30/2005
Subject: Re: Oto cat question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9815 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/30/2005
Subject: Re: Whisper Micro Filter and Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9816 From: bettamuse Date: 3/30/2005
Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9817 From: bettamuse Date: 3/30/2005
Subject: Aquarama
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9818 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/30/2005
Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting, 4/2/2005, 6:30 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9819 From: Rachel Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9820 From: Robert Hickey Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Re: Film on top of the Water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9821 From: whatsdiggin Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Need a GOOD website
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9822 From: Robert Hickey Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Re: help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9823 From: valbogert01 Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9824 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Re: Need a GOOD website
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9825 From: TankGurl Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Re: Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9826 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Re: help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9827 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: was RE: Question( bug bombs )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9828 From: Robert Hickey Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Re: help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9829 From: valbogert01 Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Re: was RE: Question( bug bombs )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9830 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Question( bug bombs )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9831 From: ruth eubanks Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Re: Need a GOOD website
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9832 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Re: help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9833 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: CO2 System seems to be working nicely!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9834 From: Robert Hickey Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Re: help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9835 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9836 From: cold_one1966 Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: thanks for the invite
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9837 From: MG Schulz Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: veiltail mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9838 From: lang1988 Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Chicagoland GWASOC General Meeting - Guests Welcome
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9839 From: Jade Evita Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9840 From: Kyle Osterholt Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Re: Betta question....re: almond leaf
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9841 From: MG Schulz Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Re: Hi I'm Back
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9842 From: robdar4609 Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Angry Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9843 From: wendie Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9844 From: Nan Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: CO2 ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9845 From: Rachel Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9846 From: Antonios Date: 3/31/2005
Subject: Tank of the month is now online
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9847 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9848 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: CO2 ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9849 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9850 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9851 From: Robert Hickey Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9852 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9853 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: CO2 ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9854 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: CO2 ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9855 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Guppy Fry-help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9856 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Platies-sexing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9857 From: Evita Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9858 From: Evita Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9859 From: Rosahoic Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: CO2 ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9860 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9861 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9862 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9863 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9864 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: Guppy Fry-help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9865 From: fish14162001 Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9866 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9867 From: Rob And Joyce Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: This may seem OT, but.....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9868 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9869 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9870 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: This may seem OT, but.....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9871 From: Hrvoje Maric Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9872 From: paul helms Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9873 From: rca2745@aol.com Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9874 From: bettamuse Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Huge international betta show in Brisbane
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9875 From: Nan Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9876 From: Nan Date: 4/1/2005
Subject: Re: Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9877 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9878 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9879 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9880 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9881 From: paul helms Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9882 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9883 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9884 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9885 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: CO2 ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9886 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9887 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9888 From: Marius E. Gaybba Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Organic Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9889 From: Charlene Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Hi again I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9890 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9891 From: Eric Miner Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9892 From: whatsdiggin Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Still need help fry are still dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9893 From: jim Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Still need help fry are still dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9894 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9895 From: zxav Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Powpets! Special Invitation for AquaticLife group.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9896 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Temperature and Betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9897 From: paul helms Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9898 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Whisper Micro Filter and Betta outlet flow hose
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9899 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Birth Patterns of Platties
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9900 From: melly0s Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9901 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9902 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Huge international betta show in Brisbane
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9903 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Still need help fry are still dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9904 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9905 From: ruth eubanks Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Still need help fry are still dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9906 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9907 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9908 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9909 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Still need help fry are still dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9910 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9911 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9912 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9913 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9914 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9915 From: khamul1of9 Date: 4/2/2005
Subject: Hi, need help in new tank setup.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9916 From: Evita Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9917 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Still need help fry are still dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9918 From: Evita Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9919 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9920 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Catfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9921 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9922 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Catfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9923 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9924 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9925 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9926 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9927 From: jim Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9928 From: jim Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9929 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9930 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: South American Fish and Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9931 From: Nan Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Does the Group?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9932 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: South American Fish and Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9933 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Hi, need help in new tank setup.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9934 From: ruth eubanks Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Does the Group?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9935 From: pam phetteplace Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Bow or flat....glass or acrylic??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9936 From: pam phetteplace Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Metal in tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9937 From: Nan Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9938 From: Nan Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9939 From: Amalthea Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9940 From: Bill Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9941 From: Dawana Branch Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Goldfish was Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I ca
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9942 From: harry perry Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!/inch rule,co
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9943 From: Kyle Osterholt Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: glass block betta aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9944 From: bettamuse Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Huge international betta show in Brisbane
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9945 From: Amalthea Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: glass block betta aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9946 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Does the Group?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9947 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9948 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9949 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: glass block betta aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9950 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Metal in tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9951 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Bow or flat....glass or acrylic??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9952 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9953 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9954 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9955 From: bettamuse Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9956 From: Kyle Osterholt Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: betta block
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9957 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: glass block betta aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9958 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9959 From: The Doctor Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: glass block betta aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9960 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: glass block betta aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9961 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: betta block
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9962 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: betta block
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9963 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9964 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
Subject: aaron
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9965 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory - Update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9966 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9967 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: CO2 ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9968 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: CO2 ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9969 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Betta Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9970 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Birth Patterns of Platties
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9971 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: FANTASTIC AQUARIUM
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9972 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9973 From: TC@};- Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Got a fish food Q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9974 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Birth Patterns of Platties
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9975 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Got a fish food Q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9976 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Got a fish food Q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9977 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9978 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9979 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9980 From: paul helms Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9981 From: paul helms Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9982 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Got a fish food Q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9983 From: Patricia Burch-Vaughn Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: new with questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9984 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9985 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: glass block betta aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9986 From: Kyle Osterholt Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: betta blocks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9987 From: Amalthea Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: betta blocks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9988 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: betta blocks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9989 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Got a fish food Q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9990 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Betta Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9991 From: Amalthea Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Betta Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9992 From: valbogert01 Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: 2.5 gallon help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9993 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: betta blocks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9994 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: 2.5 gallon help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9995 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Birth Patterns of Platties
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9996 From: Nan Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9997 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9998 From: paul helms Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9999 From: paul helms Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10000 From: paul helms Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: betta blocks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10001 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10002 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10003 From: Aaron Martin Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Fw: Re: File - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10004 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10005 From: Khamul King Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Betta Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10006 From: Khamul King Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Got a fish food Q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10007 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10008 From: Khamul King Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: new with questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10009 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Poll results for AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10010 From: paul helms Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Betta Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10011 From: paul helms Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10012 From: paul helms Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10013 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10014 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10015 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Huge international betta show in Brisbane
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10016 From: Gords Lim Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Help needed..Sick Guppies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10017 From: Khamul King Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Betta Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10018 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10019 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10020 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10021 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10022 From: bettamuse Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: Huge international betta show in Brisbane
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10023 From: Rachel Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10024 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10025 From: paul helms Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10026 From: paul helms Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10027 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10028 From: Evita Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10029 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10030 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10031 From: TankGurl Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10032 From: Kyle Osterholt Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: paul, betta block
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10033 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10034 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10035 From: rojeriko Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10036 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Nitrates up, again!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10037 From: TankGurl Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10038 From: TankGurl Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates up, again!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10039 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: Nitrates up, again!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10040 From: TankGurl Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10041 From: paul helms Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10042 From: paul helms Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: paul, betta block
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10043 From: paul helms Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10044 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: gray: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10045 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: paul, betta block
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10046 From: butterfly42422002 Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: Birth Patterns of Platties
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10047 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: paul, betta block
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10048 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: gray: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10049 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: CO2 ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10050 From: helen572 Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: 2.5 gallon help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10051 From: Patricia Burch-Vaughn Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: new w/questions thanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10052 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10053 From: William Autry Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: salt water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10054 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: gray: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10055 From: paul helms Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: salt water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10056 From: paul helms Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10057 From: paul helms Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: paul, betta block
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10058 From: paul helms Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: paul, betta block
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10059 From: Loie Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: paul, betta block
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10061 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: paul, betta block
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10062 From: Trevor Date: 4/6/2005
Subject: Re: salt water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10063 From: gracefullnature Date: 4/6/2005
Subject: Photo Albums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10064 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Bow tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10065 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Photo Albums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10066 From: Evita Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10067 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10068 From: Evita Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10069 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10070 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Bow tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10071 From: rca2745@aol.com Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10072 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10073 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10074 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10075 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Bow tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10076 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10077 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: salt water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10078 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10079 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Bow tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10080 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Bow tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10081 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Bow tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10082 From: infomehlb Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: DIY Aquarium Canopies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10083 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Bow tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10084 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Bow tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10085 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10086 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10087 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10088 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10089 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10090 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10091 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: How Many Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10092 From: rca2745@aol.com Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10093 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Ghost shrimps with eggs care info please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10094 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost shrimps with eggs care info please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10095 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10096 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost shrimps with eggs care info please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10097 From: lemiwinks_86 Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: new to saltwater tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10098 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: new to saltwater tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10099 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: new to saltwater tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10100 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost shrimps with eggs care info please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10101 From: harry perry Date: 4/8/2005
Subject: Algae control. Your opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10102 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/8/2005
Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10103 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/8/2005
Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10104 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/8/2005
Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10105 From: Nan Date: 4/8/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10106 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/8/2005
Subject: Re: How Many Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10107 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/8/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost shrimps with eggs care info please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10108 From: Fish Bloke Date: 4/8/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10109 From: Liz Wilhite Date: 4/8/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10110 From: Anne Date: 4/8/2005
Subject: Re: How Many Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10111 From: Fish Bloke Date: 4/8/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10112 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10113 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10114 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: I have baby ghost shrimps!!! =:o)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10115 From: harry perry Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please./mommy2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10116 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please./mommy2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10117 From: The Doctor Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please./mommy2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10118 From: paul helms Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please./mommy2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10119 From: paul helms Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10120 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please./mommy2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10121 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: How Many Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10122 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: How Many Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10123 From: paul helms Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: How Many Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10124 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: How Many Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10125 From: Evita Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10126 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: betta block
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10127 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10128 From: whatsdiggin Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Need someone advice
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10129 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: Bow tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10130 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: Bow tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10131 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: Bow tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10132 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Thinking of buying a new filter for my tank - recomendations?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10133 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: Bow tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10134 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Thinking of buying a new filter for my tank - recomendations?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10135 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: Bow tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10136 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: seroius help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10137 From: harry perry Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10138 From: Michael McCumber Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: betta block
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10139 From: Michael McCumber Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10140 From: paul helms Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10141 From: paul helms Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: How Many Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10142 From: harry perry Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: betta block/To Mike
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10143 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10144 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10145 From: The Doctor Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10146 From: harry perry Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10147 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10148 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10149 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: How Many Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10150 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: betta block/To Mike
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10151 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: How Many Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10152 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10153 From: paul helms Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10154 From: paul helms Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: How Many Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10155 From: paul helms Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10156 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10157 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: How Many Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10158 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed(euthanasia)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10159 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: California Ramshorn Ban
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10160 From: harry perry Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: How Many Fish/To Ron and all. Mature sizes of fish. Opinions pl
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10161 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinion...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10162 From: swarve_gorilla Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Hello..... fresh fish..... do I soak my bag in this tank before I
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10163 From: mknobsb Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Betta in Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10164 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: Betta in Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10165 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10166 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10167 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10168 From: Rachel Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: Betta in Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10169 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: How Many Fish/To Ron and all. Mature sizes of fish. Opinions pl
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10170 From: William Autry Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10171 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10172 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10173 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10174 From: Bev Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Picky Discus
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10175 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: Picky Discus
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10176 From: paul helms Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10177 From: paul helms Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: California Ramshorn Ban
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10178 From: paul helms Date: 4/10/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10179 From: daniel_roachus Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: How Many Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10180 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10181 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10182 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10183 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10184 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10185 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10186 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10187 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Beta in Tropical Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10188 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10189 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10190 From: Amalthea Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10191 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10192 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10193 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10194 From: Eric Miner Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Is this a good community?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10195 From: wendie Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10196 From: infomehlb Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Tidepool II wet/dry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10197 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10198 From: racetwocrg Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10199 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10200 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10201 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10202 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Tidepool II wet/dry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10203 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10204 From: wendie Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10205 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10206 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10207 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10208 From: Nan Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10209 From: Nan Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please./mommy2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10210 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10211 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: nim and ray partners in crime lol
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10212 From: Nan Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please./mommy2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10213 From: paul helms Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10214 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10215 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10216 From: Nan Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10217 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Is this a good community?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10218 From: paul helms Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10219 From: paul helms Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: How Many Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10220 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank? other fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10221 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10222 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10223 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Shannon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10224 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10226 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please./mommy2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10227 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please./mommy2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10228 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Shannon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10229 From: pam phetteplace Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 703 Re the bored betta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10230 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/11/2005
Subject: Re: Shannon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10231 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10232 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Shannon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10233 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Shannon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10234 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Shannon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10235 From: TankGurl Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Shannon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10236 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Tidepool II wet/dry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10237 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Fwd: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10238 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Fwd: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10239 From: paul helms Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Tidepool II wet/dry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10240 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10241 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10242 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10243 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Tidepool II wet/dry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10244 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10245 From: Trevor Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10246 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10247 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10248 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10249 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Fwd: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10250 From: wendie Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10251 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10252 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10253 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10254 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10255 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: interesting saltwater fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10256 From: dozer0011 Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Tidepool II wet/dry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10257 From: Evita Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10258 From: Trevor Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10259 From: Trevor Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10260 From: paul helms Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10261 From: Eric Miner Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Confused about my local water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10262 From: paul helms Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10263 From: paul helms Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Confused about my local water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10264 From: paul helms Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10265 From: paul helms Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10266 From: worship_hedvvwig Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: does coppersafe work?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10267 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10268 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10269 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10270 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10271 From: wendie Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10272 From: wendie Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10273 From: paul helms Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10274 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10275 From: wendie Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10276 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: interesting saltwater fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10277 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10278 From: Evita Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10279 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10280 From: Anne Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Clown loaches question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10281 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Confused about my local water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10282 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: Clown loaches question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10283 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/12/2005
Subject: Re: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10284 From: Evita Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10285 From: Jade Evita Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10286 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: interesting saltwater fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10287 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10288 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10289 From: daniel_roachus Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Confused about my local water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10290 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10291 From: Anne Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Clown loaches question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10292 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10293 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10294 From: paul helms Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10295 From: paul helms Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10296 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Female Beta in tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10297 From: Evita Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10298 From: Jade Evita Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: NEW NUMBERS ON TANKS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10299 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Female Beta in tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10300 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10301 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: interesting saltwater fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10302 From: Anne Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Female Beta in tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10303 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: interesting saltwater fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10304 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10305 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10306 From: pam phetteplace Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: HELP! Pls
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10307 From: J G Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10308 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10309 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10310 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: NEW NUMBERS ON TANKS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10311 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10312 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Ack! Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10313 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: HELP! Pls
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10314 From: jason stone Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10315 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10316 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10317 From: Erin Shoemate Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10318 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10319 From: J G Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10320 From: jason stone Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10321 From: jason stone Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10322 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall - - - cichlid junkie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10323 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10324 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10325 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10326 From: jason stone Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10327 From: Rachel Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: algae infestation
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10328 From: paul helms Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10329 From: J G Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10330 From: paul helms Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: need a settlement on a dispute
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10331 From: Anne Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: algae infestation
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10332 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10333 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10334 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10335 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10336 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/13/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10337 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10338 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: need a settlement on a dispute
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10339 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Love the Leafy Seadragon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10340 From: jason stone Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10341 From: harry perry Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: Love the Leafy SeadragonSmall SW
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10342 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10343 From: ophiophthalmos Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: "Rainbow Crabs"
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10344 From: The Doctor Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: Love the Leafy SeadragonSmall SW
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10345 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: "Rainbow Crabs"
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10346 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10347 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: algae infestation
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10348 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10349 From: Rachel Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: algae infestation
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10350 From: ophiophthalmos Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: "Rainbow Crabs"
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10351 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: "Rainbow Crabs"
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10352 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Violet Goby
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10353 From: worship_hedvvwig Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: to cure velvet
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10354 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: need a settlement on a dispute
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10355 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: HELP! Pls
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10356 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: HELP! Pls
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10357 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10358 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: HELP! Pls
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10359 From: ophiophthalmos Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: "Rainbow Crabs"
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10360 From: J G Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10361 From: paul helms Date: 4/14/2005
Subject: Re: need a settlement on a dispute
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10362 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: algae infestation
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10363 From: Evita Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10364 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: OT - Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10365 From: harry perry Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: OT - Windfall/ Who's always right , men or women.?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10366 From: Evita Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: OT - Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10367 From: Evita Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: OT - Windfall/ Who's always right , men or women.?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10368 From: Amalthea Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: OT - Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10369 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: OT - Windfall/ Who's always right , men or women.?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10370 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10371 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: "Rainbow Crabs"
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10372 From: vreugde@aol.com Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: OT - Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10373 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: OT - Windfall/ Who's always right , men or women.?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10374 From: joequality1980 Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: mixing cichlids w/large gouramis
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10375 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: mixing cichlids w/large gouramis
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10376 From: J G Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10377 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: OT - Windfall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10378 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10379 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: OT - Windfall/ Who's always right , men or women.?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10380 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Brisbane (Australia) Pet and Animal Expo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10381 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: 20Gallon high suggestions (was OT - Windfall)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10382 From: paul helms Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: 20Gallon high suggestions (was OT - Windfall)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10383 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Blood Parrots acting STRANGE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10384 From: The Doctor Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots acting STRANGE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10385 From: Amalthea Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots acting STRANGE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10386 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10387 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots acting STRANGE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10388 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Blood Parrots * Pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10389 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots * Pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10390 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots acting STRANGE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10391 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: HELP quick!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10392 From: valbogert01 Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Help Please!! Nitrate Problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10393 From: harry perry Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: Help Please!! Nitrate Problem/ High nitrates.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10394 From: harry perry Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: HELP quick!!/Isolate.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10395 From: harry perry Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: HELP quick!!/Isolate.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10396 From: valbogert01 Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: Help Please!! Nitrate Problem/ High nitrates.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10397 From: Amalthea Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots * Pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10398 From: harry perry Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: Help Please!! Nitrate Problem/ High nitrates.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10399 From: harry perry Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: OT - Windfall/ Who's always right , men or women.?/Valeen
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10400 From: butterfly42422002 Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: interesting saltwater fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10401 From: The Doctor Date: 4/15/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots * Pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10402 From: J G Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: a Q on neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10403 From: J G Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: guppy info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10404 From: wendie Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: FW: [AquaticLife]Eclipse 12
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10405 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: Clown loaches question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10406 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: a Q on neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10407 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: Help Please!! Nitrate Problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10408 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10409 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: FW: [AquaticLife]Eclipse 12
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10410 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: guppy info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10411 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Planning new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10412 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: guppy info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10413 From: harry perry Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: guppy info/Rob
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10414 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: Planning new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10415 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: (No Subject ) -- High Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10416 From: wendie Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: FW: [AquaticLife]Eclipse 12
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10417 From: Nan Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: Clown loaches question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10418 From: Nan Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10419 From: Nan Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: Female Beta in tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10420 From: Nan Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: HELP! Pls
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10421 From: yasciti Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: breeding freshwater butterflies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10422 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: HELP quick!!/Isolate.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10423 From: Nan Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: algae infestation
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10424 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: Planning new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10425 From: harry perry Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: breeding freshwater butterflies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10426 From: Nan Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Rachel Re: Algea Infestation
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10427 From: Nan Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: guppy info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10428 From: paul helms Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: FW: [AquaticLife]Eclipse 12
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10429 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: FW: [AquaticLife]Eclipse 12
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10430 From: paul helms Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: FW: [AquaticLife]Eclipse 12
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10431 From: Antonios Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: The International Marine Aquarium Conference
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10432 From: J G Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: guppy info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10433 From: J G Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: a Q on neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10434 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: HELP quick!!/Isolate.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10435 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Re: HELP quick!!/Isolate.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10436 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: a Q on neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10437 From: yasciti Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: breeding freshwater butterflies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10438 From: TC@};- Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Ok what can I do!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10439 From: harry perry Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: Ok what can I do!/angry swordtail.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10440 From: paul helms Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: Ok what can I do!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10441 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: HELP quick!!/Isolate.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10442 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10443 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10444 From: harry perry Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Any suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10445 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10446 From: valbogert01 Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Response to Ray's Nitrate suggestion
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10447 From: valbogert01 Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Tank history
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10448 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10449 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: PS. Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10450 From: harry perry Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: Response to Ray's Nitrate suggestion/To Val
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10451 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: PS. Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10452 From: harry perry Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails /Snails for barter.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10453 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails /Snails for barter.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10454 From: harry perry Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: Tank history/To Val
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10455 From: paul helms Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: Tank history
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10456 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Brisbane (Australia) Pet and Animal Expo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10457 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Response to Ray's Nitrate suggestion
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10458 From: Robert Hickey Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10459 From: daniel_roachus Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Planning new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10460 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Planning new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10461 From: valbogert01 Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Thanks all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10462 From: Tricia Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Possible tank plan
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10463 From: Eric Miner Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Do I need a powerhead?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10464 From: harry perry Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Possible tank plan/Tricia
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10465 From: paul helms Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Do I need a powerhead?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10466 From: paul helms Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Thanks all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10467 From: TankGurl Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Planning new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10468 From: paul helms Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Planning new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10469 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10470 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Planning new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10471 From: Robert Hickey Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10472 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: a Q on neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10473 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: interesting saltwater fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10474 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Help Please!! Nitrate Problem/ High nitrates.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10475 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots * Pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10476 From: TankGurl Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrots * Pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10477 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Recommended Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10478 From: paul helms Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Recommended Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10479 From: J G Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: a Q on neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10480 From: dmichaelschmidt1967 Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Lebanese Fossil specimens at FANTASTIC prices........
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10481 From: Nan Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10482 From: wendie Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: FW: [AquaticLife]Eclipse 12
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10483 From: Nisbet Family (Measham) Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Fish Books on EBay
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10484 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10485 From: Nan Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10486 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10487 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10488 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10489 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10490 From: Nan Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10491 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Tank history/To Val
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10492 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Possible tank plan
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10493 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10494 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10495 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10496 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Strange bugs!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10497 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: need a settlement on a dispute
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10498 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: OT - Windfall/ Who's always right , men or women.?/Valeen
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10499 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Strange bugs!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10500 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Strange bugs!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10501 From: Subodh Chand Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Natural Condition Fish Tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10502 From: paul helms Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Natural Condition Fish Tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10503 From: wendie Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Natural Condition Fish Tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10504 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10505 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10506 From: CIDAB Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 719
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10507 From: harry perry Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Natural Condition Fish Tanks/Things change? or do they?/Dear We
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10508 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Dealer Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10509 From: wizzbaf Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Natural Condition Fish Tanks/Things change? or do they?/Dear We
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10510 From: Eric Miner Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Cleaning rocks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10511 From: TankGurl Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Cleaning rocks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10512 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: a Q on neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10513 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Recommended Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10514 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Cleaning rocks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10515 From: J G Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: a Q on neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10516 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10517 From: Nan Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10518 From: Nan Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10519 From: helen572 Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10520 From: princezzuno Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Hello All
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10521 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10522 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10523 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10524 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10525 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10526 From: Amalthea Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10527 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10528 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10529 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10530 From: paul helms Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10531 From: paul helms Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Recommended Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10532 From: paul helms Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Cleaning rocks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10533 From: paul helms Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Natural Condition Fish Tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10534 From: paul helms Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Lebanese Fossil specimens at FANTASTIC prices........
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10535 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Hello All
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10536 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/19/2005
Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10537 From: wjcoldman Date: 4/20/2005
Subject: Out side pond
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10538 From: infomehlb Date: 4/20/2005
Subject: What is the best Canister filter?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10539 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 4/20/2005
Subject: Re: Out side pond
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10540 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 4/20/2005
Subject: Re: Strange bugs!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10541 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/20/2005
Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10542 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/20/2005
Subject: Re: Cleaning rocks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10543 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/20/2005
Subject: Re: Out side pond
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10544 From: wjcoldman Date: 4/20/2005
Subject: Re: Out side pond
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10545 From: wjcoldman Date: 4/20/2005
Subject: Re: Cleaning rocks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10546 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/21/2005
Subject: Re: Natural Condition Fish Tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10547 From: William Autry Date: 4/21/2005
Subject: saltwater help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10548 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/21/2005
Subject: Re: saltwater help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10549 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/21/2005
Subject: upside down catfish and flower pots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10550 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/21/2005
Subject: Re: Recommended Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10551 From: Rachel Date: 4/21/2005
Subject: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10552 From: Nan Date: 4/21/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10553 From: Nan Date: 4/21/2005
Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10554 From: Norman. S. Hampson. Date: 4/21/2005
Subject: Re: saltwater help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10555 From: ericpeters3 Date: 4/21/2005
Subject: new member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10556 From: paul helms Date: 4/21/2005
Subject: Re: saltwater help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10557 From: Jason Date: 4/21/2005
Subject: fish catastrophe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10558 From: paul helms Date: 4/21/2005
Subject: Re: fish catastrophe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10559 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/21/2005
Subject: Re: upside down catfish and flower pots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10560 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/21/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10561 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/22/2005
Subject: Re: Cycle(and all the other additives...)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10562 From: TankGurl Date: 4/22/2005
Subject: Re: Cycle(and all the other additives...)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10563 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/22/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10564 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/22/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10565 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/22/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10566 From: T Date: 4/22/2005
Subject: merky water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10567 From: paul helms Date: 4/22/2005
Subject: Re: merky water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10568 From: paul helms Date: 4/22/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10569 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 4/22/2005
Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10570 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/22/2005
Subject: Re: new member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10571 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/22/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10572 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/22/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10573 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/22/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10574 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/22/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10575 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/22/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10576 From: paul helms Date: 4/22/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10577 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10578 From: Rachel Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10579 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10580 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10581 From: Rachel Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10582 From: Rachel Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10583 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10584 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10585 From: Rachel Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10586 From: Rachel Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10587 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10588 From: harry perry Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!/Rachel O.T.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10589 From: Rachel Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10590 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10591 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10592 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10593 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: update about my dropsy fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10594 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: Re: update about my dropsy fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10596 From: Marius E. Gaybba Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: Organic Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10597 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/23/2005
Subject: Re: update about my dropsy fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10598 From: harry perry Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums/To Marius and all members.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10599 From: harry perry Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Re: update about my dropsy fish/To Shannon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10600 From: Evita Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Re: update about my dropsy fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10601 From: Evita Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Re: update about my dropsy fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10602 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: tank cycling
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10603 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Re: update about my dropsy fish/To Shannon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10604 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Re: update about my dropsy fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10605 From: paul helms Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Re: tank cycling
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10606 From: Angela Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Cloudy Water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10607 From: Rachel Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: tetratest
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10608 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Ailing? Or Lazy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10609 From: Rachel Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: carbon filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10610 From: Rachel Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: carbon filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10611 From: paul helms Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Re: Cloudy Water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10612 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Re: carbon filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10613 From: paul helms Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Re: carbon filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10614 From: paul helms Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Re: carbon filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10615 From: paul helms Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Re: carbon filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10616 From: Rachel Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Re: carbon filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10617 From: Jason Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Re: fish catastrophe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10618 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Re: carbon filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10619 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Re: carbon filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10620 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Re: fish catastrophe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10621 From: Rachel Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: so what do i do?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10622 From: Rachel Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: good news
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10623 From: J G Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10624 From: paul helms Date: 4/24/2005
Subject: Re: good news
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10625 From: paul helms Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10626 From: paul helms Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: carbon filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10627 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Easylife and Nishi-clay
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10628 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10629 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: carbon filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10630 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: Ailing? Or Lazy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10631 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: so what do i do?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10632 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10633 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10634 From: paul helms Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10635 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10636 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10637 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: Ailing? Or Lazy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10638 From: fuzzybpebble Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Introduction to me and my fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10639 From: foxcreekhomestead Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: wild snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10640 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: HELP! BParrot trouble
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10641 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: Ailing? Or Lazy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10642 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: HELP! BParrot trouble
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10643 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: HELP! BParrot trouble
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10644 From: kb1dva Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: FW: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10645 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: Ailing? Or Lazy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10646 From: foxcreekhomestead Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: FW: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10647 From: joequality1980 Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: retrofiting lights
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10648 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: FW: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10649 From: paul helms Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: wild snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10650 From: paul helms Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10651 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: Ailing? Or Lazy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10652 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Blood Parrot: Puffy face and swims sideways (& Filter Question)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10653 From: foxcreekhomestead Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: wild snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10654 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Mystery snails and egg shells question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10655 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: Kosher salt good or bad?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10656 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: Kosher salt good or bad?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10658 From: Nan Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: Mystery snails and egg shells question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10659 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: HELP! BParrot trouble
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10660 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: I REALLY need help here...pleeease
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10661 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: Mystery snails and egg shells question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10662 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: so what do i do?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10663 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: I REALLY need help here...pleeease
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10664 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: I REALLY need help here...pleeease
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10665 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: Kosher salt good or bad?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10666 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10667 From: Amalthea Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: I REALLY need help here...pleeease
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10668 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Blood Parrot Large Pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10669 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: I REALLY need help here...pleeease
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10670 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrot Large Pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10671 From: The Doctor Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: I REALLY need help here...pleeease
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10672 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Blood Parrot: Puffy face and swims sideways (& Filter Question)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10673 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Ailing? Or Lazy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10674 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10675 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Ailing? Or Lazy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10676 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10677 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: FW: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10678 From: TankGurl Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10679 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Getting rid of the FIREMOUTH!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10680 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Getting rid of the FIREMOUTH!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10681 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10682 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10683 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10684 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: wild snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10685 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Getting rid of the FIREMOUTH!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10686 From: paul711969 Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Hello all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10687 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Hello all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10688 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: think it's flukes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10689 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10690 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10691 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10692 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10693 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: think it's flukes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10694 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10695 From: paul711969 Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: think it's flukes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10696 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: think it's flukes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10697 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: think it's flukes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10698 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: more
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10699 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: think it's flukes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10700 From: Amalthea Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: more
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10701 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: more
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10702 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: more
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10703 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: more
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10704 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10705 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10706 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10707 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10708 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10709 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10710 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10711 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10712 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10713 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10714 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10715 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: more
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10716 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10717 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10718 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10719 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10720 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: more
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10721 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10722 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10723 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10724 From: William Autry Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10725 From: Rachel Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: overall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10726 From: paul helms Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10727 From: paul helms Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: overall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10728 From: paul helms Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10729 From: Eric Miner Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Sealing wood and rocks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10730 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10731 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10732 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: more
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10733 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Ray-Pictures *large
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10734 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Ray-Pictures *large
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10735 From: Robyn Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: need help with fancy goldfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10736 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: need help with fancy goldfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10737 From: Robert Hickey Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: need help with fancy goldfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10738 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: need help with fancy goldfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10739 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Ray-Pictures *large
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10740 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Fancy Goldfish...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10741 From: Robert Hickey Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: need help with fancy goldfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10742 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Ray-Pictures *large
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10743 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Ray-Pictures *large
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10744 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Ray-Pictures *large
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10745 From: cireman1933 Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Hello all...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10746 From: paul helms Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10747 From: paul helms Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Sealing wood and rocks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10748 From: A J Myers Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Green tiger barb doing nose stands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10749 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Ray, Mark - #'s
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10750 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Ray, Mark - #'s
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10751 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Ray, Mark - #'s
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10752 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10753 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Ray, Mark - #'s
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10754 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Ray, Mark - #'s
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10755 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Hello all...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10756 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: overall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10757 From: fsh_tanks Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10758 From: Rachel Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: overall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10759 From: Rachel Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: ph test
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10760 From: Nan Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: overall
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10761 From: Nan Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Dead Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10762 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10763 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10764 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10765 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: New prob...? Please help...again.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10766 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10767 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10768 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: ph test
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10769 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: ph test
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10770 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Dead Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10771 From: paul helms Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10772 From: paul helms Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10773 From: paul helms Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: ph test
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10774 From: eggybumstu Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Technical probs veiwing ray pictures
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10775 From: eggybumstu Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Hello all...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10776 From: paul helms Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10777 From: paul helms Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Ray, Mark - #'s
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10778 From: eggybumstu Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Another pH queery
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10779 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10780 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: New prob...? Please help...again.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10781 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: ph test
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10782 From: TankGurl Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Another pH queery
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10783 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10784 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Another pH queery
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10785 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Need a small filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10786 From: Trevor Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Another pH queery
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10787 From: Trevor Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Need a small filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10788 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10789 From: paul helms Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Another pH queery
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10790 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10791 From: paul helms Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10792 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Need a small filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10793 From: paul helms Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10794 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: New prob...? Please help...again.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10795 From: kb1dva Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: testing and other stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10796 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10797 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Another pH queery
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10798 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: testing and other stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10799 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Need a small filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10800 From: kb1dva Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: thanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10801 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: ( RE: 90 gallon questions) thanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10802 From: Ben Noreau Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Looking for people close to me
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10803 From: Eric Miner Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Does this thing work?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10804 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Does this thing work?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10805 From: Nan Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Dead Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10806 From: Nan Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Looking for people close to me
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10807 From: Fish Bloke Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: testing and other stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10808 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: somethings not right
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10809 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: thanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10810 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Looking for people close to me
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10811 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10812 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10813 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: think it's flukes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10814 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: testing and other stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10815 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10816 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Table salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10817 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: testing and other stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10818 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10819 From: Rachel Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: pleco
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10820 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Dead Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10821 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10822 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Another pH queery
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10823 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Green tiger barb doing nose stands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10824 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Sealing wood and rocks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10825 From: Anne Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Natural Condition Fish Tanks/Things change? or do they?/Dear We
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10826 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Strange bugs!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10827 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: testing and other stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10828 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: why pH test kits should require licenses
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10829 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: why pH test kits should require licenses
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10830 From: paul helms Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10831 From: paul helms Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: Another pH queery
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10832 From: paul helms Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: testing and other stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10833 From: traceyhanson Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Swordtail problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10834 From: daniel_roachus Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10835 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: Another pH queery
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10836 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: Dead Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10837 From: Anne Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: why pH test kits should require licenses
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10838 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Should I still change water?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10839 From: TankGurl Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: Should I still change water?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10840 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: Should I still change water?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10841 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10842 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: Hello all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10843 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Ray, Mark-check out my new #'s
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10844 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Treating Pop-eye?!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10845 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: Treating Pop-eye?!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10846 From: TankGurl Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: Ray, Mark-check out my new #'s
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10847 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: Ray, Mark-check out my new #'s
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10848 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: Treating Pop-eye?!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10849 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: Ray, Mark-check out my new #'s
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10850 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: Treating Pop-eye?!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10851 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: Ray, Mark-check out my new #'s
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10852 From: paul helms Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10853 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: why pH test kits should require licenses
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10854 From: paul helms Date: 4/30/2005
Subject: Re: why pH test kits should require licenses
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10855 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/30/2005
Subject: Re: why pH test kits should require licenses
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10856 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/30/2005
Subject: Plants!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10857 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/30/2005
Subject: Re: why pH test kits should require licenses
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10858 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/30/2005
Subject: Re: why pH test kits should require licenses
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10859 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/30/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10860 From: Eric Miner Date: 4/30/2005
Subject: Adding substrate early?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10861 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/30/2005
Subject: Re: Adding substrate early?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10862 From: bethym99 Date: 4/30/2005
Subject: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10863 From: Nan Date: 4/30/2005
Subject: Re: pleco
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10864 From: Tammy Date: 4/30/2005
Subject: Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10865 From: paul helms Date: 4/30/2005
Subject: Re: Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10866 From: paul helms Date: 4/30/2005
Subject: Re: Adding substrate early?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10867 From: paul helms Date: 4/30/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10868 From: paul helms Date: 4/30/2005
Subject: Re: why pH test kits should require licenses
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10869 From: Nan Date: 4/30/2005
Subject: Re: Dead Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10870 From: Nan Date: 4/30/2005
Subject: Re: why pH test kits should require licenses
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10871 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/30/2005
Subject: Re: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10872 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: pleco
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10873 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10874 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: Dead Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10875 From: paul helms Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: Dead Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10876 From: Nan Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: Dead Tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10877 From: helen572 Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Sick platy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10878 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: ER!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10879 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: ER taken care of =)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10880 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: ER taken care of =)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10881 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: Sick platy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10882 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: ER taken care of =)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10883 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: ER taken care of =) ( diggin)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10884 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: ER taken care of =) ( diggin)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10885 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: rob ( diggin)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10886 From: fuzzybpebble Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: Plants!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10887 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: rob ( diggin)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10888 From: fuzzybpebble Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: My guppies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10889 From: harry perry Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: My guppies/To Bethany
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10890 From: fuzzybpebble Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: My guppies/To Bethany
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10891 From: harry perry Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: My guppies/To Bethany/again
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10892 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: rob ( diggin)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10893 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: rob ( diggin)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10894 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: question on guppies, danios, rosies and goldfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10895 From: bethym99 Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10896 From: alexnorton2004 Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: A colorful aquarium world on your screen!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10897 From: paul helms Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: ER taken care of =)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10898 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10899 From: paul helms Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10900 From: Torran Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Howdy and a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10901 From: harry perry Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Re: A colorful aquarium world on your screen!/Don't do it again.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10902 From: Lauri Date: 5/1/2005
Subject: Midas Coloration
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10903 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10904 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: Re: Plants!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10905 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: Re: Midas Coloration
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10906 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: Lauri: Midas Coloration
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10907 From: helen572 Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: Re: Sick platy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10908 From: fish14162001 Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: Re: Howdy and a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10909 From: kb1dva Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10910 From: kb1dva Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: I almost forgot
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10911 From: Charlene Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: Hi again I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10912 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10913 From: Rachel Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: 20 gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10914 From: Ron Hansen Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10915 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: Re: Scorpions?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10916 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10917 From: Lauri Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: Re: Midas Coloration
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10918 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10919 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: Re: I almost forgot
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10920 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: was:Hi again I need ...(playsand)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10921 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10922 From: paul helms Date: 5/2/2005
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10923 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: was:Hi again I need ...(playsand)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10924 From: kb1dva Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: the big move
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10925 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: Midas Coloration
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10926 From: AL Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10927 From: Charlene Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Hi again I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10928 From: eric douglas Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10929 From: paul helms Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10930 From: paul helms Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10931 From: paul helms Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: anyone need equipment to set up salt water?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10932 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10933 From: Rachel Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10934 From: Rachel Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10935 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10936 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: coffee cups in tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10937 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10938 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10939 From: Ron Hansen Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10940 From: Eric Miner Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Best on-line plant dealer?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10941 From: Rosahoic Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: Best on-line plant dealer?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10942 From: TankGurl Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: coffee cups in tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10943 From: wjcoldman Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: anyone need equipment to set up salt water?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10944 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: coffee cups in tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10945 From: joequality1980 Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: retrofiting lights
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10946 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10947 From: Nan Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10948 From: kb1dva Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10949 From: Nan Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: Best on-line plant dealer?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10950 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10951 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: the big move
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10952 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: retrofiting lights
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10953 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10954 From: Lauri Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: Midas Coloration
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10955 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: SHANNON ( AgentSculley...) OT
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10956 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: ( AgentSculley...) Off Topic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10957 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: retrofiting lights
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10958 From: paul helms Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: anyone need equipment to set up salt water?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10959 From: paul helms Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10960 From: paul helms Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: coffee cups in tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10961 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Re: Best on-line plant dealer?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10962 From: Robert Hickey Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10963 From: wendie Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: coffee cups in tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10964 From: AL Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10965 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Need a small filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10966 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: thanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10967 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: testing and other stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10968 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Ray, Mark-check out my new #'s
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10969 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10970 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: question on guppies, danios, rosies and goldfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10971 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10972 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Howdy and a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10973 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10974 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10975 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10976 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10977 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10978 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10979 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10980 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10981 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10982 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10983 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10984 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10985 From: Robert Hickey Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Ph issue
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10986 From: Rachel Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10987 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Ph issue
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10988 From: Nan Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10989 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Ray, Mark-check out my new #'s
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10990 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10991 From: bethym99 Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10992 From: Nan Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10993 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: My guppies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10994 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10995 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10996 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10997 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10998 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10999 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11000 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11001 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: coffee cups in tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11002 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11003 From: paul helms Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11004 From: kb1dva Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11005 From: Rachel Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: light
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11006 From: kb1dva Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: pacu
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11007 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: pacu
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11008 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: light
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11009 From: Amalthea Date: 5/4/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11010 From: Robert Hickey Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Ph issue
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11011 From: paul helms Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: pacu
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11012 From: paul helms Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: light
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11013 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11014 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11015 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11016 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11017 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11018 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11019 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: CO2 for plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11020 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11021 From: bethym99 Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11022 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11023 From: Trevor Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11024 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11025 From: Amalthea Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11026 From: Amalthea Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11027 From: Trevor Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11028 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11029 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Bully Blood Parrot
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11030 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Bully Blood Parrot
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11031 From: kb1dva Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: pacu problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11032 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Bully Blood Parrot
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11033 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: pacu problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11034 From: kb1dva Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: pacu problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11035 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: pacu problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11036 From: kb1dva Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Fish id
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11037 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: pacu problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11038 From: kb1dva Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11039 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Fish id
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11040 From: kb1dva Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: tank decorations
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11041 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: tank decorations
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11042 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: pacu problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11043 From: Ron Hansen Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Fish id
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11044 From: Robert Hickey Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Life but not as We know it
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11045 From: Rachel Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: goldfish waste
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11046 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: pacu problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11047 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Life but not as We know it
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11048 From: Ron Hansen Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11049 From: Rosaholic Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11050 From: Rosaholic Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11051 From: Rosaholic Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11052 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: pacu problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11053 From: Rosaholic Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11054 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: pacu problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11055 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11056 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: pacu problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11057 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: coffee cups in tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11058 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11059 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Fish id
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11060 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Fish id
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11061 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Life but not as We know it
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11062 From: wendie Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: coffee cups in tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11063 From: Nan Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11064 From: kb1dva Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: pace update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11065 From: Nan Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11066 From: paul helms Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11067 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11068 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11069 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11070 From: Anne Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: cories and balas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11071 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Mystery snails eggs have hatched
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11072 From: paul helms Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: cories and balas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11073 From: Anne Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: cories and balas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11074 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Mystery snails eggs have hatched
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11075 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: cories and balas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11076 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: cories and balas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11077 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11078 From: paul helms Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: cories and balas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11079 From: paul helms Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: cories and balas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11080 From: Antonios Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Picture of the month on ReefGossip.com
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11081 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11082 From: paul helms Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11083 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11084 From: Anne Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: cories and balas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11085 From: Anne Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: a cory question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11086 From: TalonStorm Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11087 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: a cory question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11088 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: cories and balas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11089 From: Nan Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11090 From: paul helms Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11091 From: paul helms Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: a cory question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11092 From: paul helms Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11093 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11094 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11095 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: Mystery snails eggs have hatched
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11096 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: Mystery snails eggs have hatched
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11097 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: cories and balas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11098 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: a cory question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11099 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11100 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11101 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/6/2005
Subject: Pacus eat plant material, not meat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11102 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11103 From: Charlene Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Hi again I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11104 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11105 From: Rosaholic Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11106 From: Dawana B Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Fin rot??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11107 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11108 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Mystery snails eggs have hatched
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11109 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11110 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11111 From: Trevor Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11112 From: Trevor Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11113 From: Trevor Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Pacus eat plant material, not meat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11114 From: kb1dva Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: pacu and other things
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11115 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: a cory question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11116 From: Andreas Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Leaf Fish (Monocyrrus Polycanthus) are breeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11117 From: Michele Kerby Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11118 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: pacu and other things
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11119 From: harry perry Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Leaf Fish (Monocyrrus Polycanthus) are breeding/fantastic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11120 From: Andreas Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Leaf Fish (Monocyrrus Polycanthus) are breeding/fantastic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11121 From: Andreas Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Leaf Fish (Monocyrrus Polycanthus) are breeding/fantastic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11122 From: harry perry Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Leaf Fish (Monocyrrus Polycanthus) are breeding/fantastic/Andre
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11123 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11124 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11125 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11126 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory - Update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11127 From: Patrick, the AmericanFishGuy Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11128 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: New poll for AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11129 From: paul helms Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: a cory question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11130 From: paul helms Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11131 From: paul helms Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11132 From: paul helms Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11133 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Leaf Fish (Monocyrrus Polycanthus) are breeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11134 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11135 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: WAS RE: Hi again I ne.. (HEATERS )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11136 From: paul helms Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11137 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: taxonomy is/is not a joke
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11138 From: paul helms Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11139 From: paul helms Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11140 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11141 From: kb1dva Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: WAS RE: Hi again I ne.. (HEATERS )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11142 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: WAS RE: Hi again I ne.. (HEATERS )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11143 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11144 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11145 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11146 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11147 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11148 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11149 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: taxonomy is/is not a joke
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11150 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: taxonomy is/is not a joke -> Maybe we're all right?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11151 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11152 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: taxonomy is/is not a joke -> Maybe we're all right?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11153 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11154 From: Anne Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11155 From: Anne Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: a cory question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11156 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11157 From: Nan Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11158 From: Nan Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Mystery snails eggs have hatched
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11159 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11160 From: Nan Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11161 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11162 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11163 From: Nan Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11164 From: Nan Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11165 From: Nan Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11166 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/7/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11167 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11168 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11169 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11170 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Taxonomy etc...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11171 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11172 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11173 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Taxonomy etc...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11174 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11175 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11176 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Taxonomy etc...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11177 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11178 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11179 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11180 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11181 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11182 From: Esther Souverein Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Fin rot??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11183 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11184 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Fin rot??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11185 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11186 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: WAS RE: Hi again I ne.. (HEATERS )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11187 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11188 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11189 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: WAS RE: Hi again I ne.. (HEATERS )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11190 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11191 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Mystery snails eggs have hatched
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11192 From: JOHN BERG Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Fwd: Unsubscvribe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11193 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Fwd: Unsubscvribe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11194 From: kb1dva Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: simplifying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11195 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Fwd: Unsubscvribe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11196 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Fin rot??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11197 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Scorpions?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11198 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11199 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: simplifying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11200 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Fwd: Unsubscvribe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11201 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11202 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11203 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11204 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11205 From: Andreas Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Scorpions?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11206 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11207 From: Charlene Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11208 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11209 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11210 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: I need to have something Please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11211 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11212 From: secretlaw Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Wanted Discus babies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11213 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Wanted Discus babies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11214 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11215 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11216 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11217 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Scorpions?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11218 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11219 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11220 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Plants and Light
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11221 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11222 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11223 From: dumont53 Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 757
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11224 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants and Light
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11225 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11226 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11227 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants and Light
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11228 From: Trevor Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11229 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Fw: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 757
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11230 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants and Light
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11231 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Fw: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 757
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11232 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11233 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11234 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants and Light
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11235 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11236 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11237 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11238 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants and Light
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11239 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11240 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Fw: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 757
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11241 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling (carbon)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11242 From: pamphetteplace Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Another Cycling Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11243 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants and Light
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11244 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Another Cycling Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11245 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants and Light
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11246 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants and Light
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11247 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling (carbon)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11248 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11249 From: J G Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Betta & others (tank mate??)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11250 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Betta & others (tank mate??)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11251 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Fw: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 757
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11252 From: kb1dva Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: healing pacu
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11253 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Fw: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 757
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11254 From: kb1dva Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: More fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11255 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: More fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11256 From: Rich and Karen Lang Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Chicagoland Tropical Fish Swap May 15, 2005
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11257 From: Rachel Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: greenish water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11258 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: greenish water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11259 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Betta & others (tank mate??)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11260 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11261 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: helfrich firefish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11262 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Introduction/african dwarf frogs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11263 From: arch1574 Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: taxonomy is not a joke
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11264 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: helfrich firefish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11265 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: helfrich firefish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11266 From: Nan Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11267 From: Nan Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11268 From: Nan Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11269 From: Nan Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11270 From: Nan Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Mystery snails eggs have hatched
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11271 From: Nan Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11272 From: Nan Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Betta & others (tank mate??)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11273 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11274 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11275 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11276 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants and Light
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11277 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11278 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11279 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11280 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11281 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: More fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11282 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Fw: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 757
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11283 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Another Cycling Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11284 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: taxonomy is not a joke, but it can be funny
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11285 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants and Light
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11286 From: Torran Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Howdy and a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11287 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11288 From: mrevilcoyote Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: live rock
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11289 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Protein Skimmer for Sale
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11290 From: Richard Jolitz Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: New Aquarium type person
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11291 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: retrofiting lights
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11292 From: Torran Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Howdy and a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11293 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: coffee cups in tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11294 From: Wouldnt you like to know! Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Newbie with lots of questions!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11295 From: tmt118@ptd.net Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11296 From: stevebruce30 Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Tank mates suitability
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11297 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: pacu problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11298 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11299 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: For Sale: Protein Skimmer
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11300 From: Joe Sevier Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: New fish group on yahoo and lookin 4 a co-moderator
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11301 From: naser morade Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11302 From: fostor2000 Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11303 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11304 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11305 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11306 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11307 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11308 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11309 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11310 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11311 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11312 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Betta & others (tank mate??)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11313 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: More fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11314 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: WAS RE: Hi again I ne.. (HEATERS )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11315 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11316 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11317 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11318 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11319 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11320 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: helfrich firefish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11321 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11322 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11323 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Plants and Light
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11324 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Another Cycling Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11325 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11326 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: pacu problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11327 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: live rock
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11328 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: Introduction/african dwarf frogs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11329 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/9/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11330 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11331 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11332 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11333 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11334 From: TankGurl Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie with lots of questions!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11335 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11336 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11337 From: valbogert01 Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Dropsy Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11338 From: joequality1980 Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11339 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Have LR and Protein Skimmer for Sale
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11340 From: joequality1980 Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: livebearer fry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11341 From: dumont53 Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Daily Digests and Viruses
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11342 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Daily Digests and Viruses ( OT )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11343 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Daily Digests and Viruses ( OT )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11344 From: paul helms Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11345 From: paul helms Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11346 From: paul helms Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11347 From: paul helms Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Daily Digests and Viruses
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11348 From: kb1dva Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Daily Digests and Viruses ( OT )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11349 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: livebearer fry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11350 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: helfrich firefish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11351 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Newbie with lots of questions!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11352 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11353 From: valbogert01 Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Any info welcome
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11354 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Dropsy Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11355 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Dropsy Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11356 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Daily Digests and Viruses
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11357 From: paul helms Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: helfrich firefish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11358 From: kd7poe Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Daily Digests and Viruses
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11359 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: helfrich firefish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11360 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Fin rot??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11361 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Daily Digests and Viruses
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11362 From: Nan Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11363 From: Nan Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11364 From: Nan Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Pacu 911
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11365 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: livebearer fry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11366 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11367 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: livebearer fry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11368 From: paul helms Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11369 From: helen572 Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: feeder fish (goldfish?) with platies?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11370 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11371 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11372 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Daily Digests and Viruses
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11373 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11374 From: paul helms Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: feeder fish (goldfish?) with platies?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11375 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: feeder fish with platies?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11376 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11377 From: kd7poe Date: 5/10/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11378 From: Richard Troon Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11379 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11380 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11381 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11382 From: Charlene Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Hi again I want to find something out.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11383 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11384 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11385 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Cycling: now a pH question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11386 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: oranda and telescope breed question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11387 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11388 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Movin' on up...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11389 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: Movin' on up...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11390 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: Movin' on up...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11391 From: Trevor Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11392 From: helen572 Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: feeder fish and platies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11393 From: Eric Miner Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Couple of stupid set-up questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11394 From: kb1dva Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: Couple of stupid set-up questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11395 From: Cire Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: Couple of stupid set-up questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11396 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: Couple of stupid set-up questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11397 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11398 From: Nan Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: Daily Digests and Viruses
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11399 From: Nan Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: Fin rot??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11400 From: Nan Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: feeder fish (goldfish?) with platies?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11401 From: Nan Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11402 From: Nan Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11403 From: Nan Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: feeder fish with platies?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11404 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11405 From: Nan Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11406 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11407 From: Nan Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11408 From: bethym99 Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: New Marine Tank - foam?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11409 From: Anne Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: Betta & others (tank mate??)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11410 From: helen572 Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Feeder fish/crayfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11411 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11412 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: Have LR and Protein Skimmer for Sale
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11413 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11414 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: oranda and telescope breed question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11415 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11416 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11417 From: paul helms Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: Have LR and Protein Skimmer for Sale
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11418 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11419 From: paul helms Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11420 From: paul helms Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: Couple of stupid set-up questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11421 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11422 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11423 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11424 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/11/2005
Subject: feeder fish and platies( Rosey Reds)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11425 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11426 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: feeder fish and platies( Rosey Reds)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11427 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11428 From: Charlene Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Please help me. I am trying to set up my tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11429 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: oranda and telescope breed question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11430 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: Feeder fish/crayfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11431 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: Movin' on up...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11432 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: wood in tank/ baking soda??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11433 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11434 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11435 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC - More fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11436 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC - More fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11437 From: joequality1980 Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11438 From: paul helms Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11439 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11440 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: Movin' on up...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11441 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Ray W. / Mark
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11442 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11443 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: feeder fish and platies( Rosey Reds)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11444 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: Movin' on up...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11445 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Rob [AquaticLife] Movin' on up...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11446 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11447 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: Ray W. / Mark
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11448 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: Movin' on up...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11449 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11450 From: Nan Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: Betta & others (tank mate??)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11451 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11452 From: Nan Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: Feeder fish/crayfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11453 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Power Head for UGF
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11454 From: Donna Ransome Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: North Jersey LFS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11455 From: Nan Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11456 From: Nan Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11457 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11458 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11459 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: feeding snails Green beans
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11460 From: kd7poe Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11461 From: paul helms Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11462 From: paul helms Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11463 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: Movin' on up...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11464 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: Ray W. / Mark
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11465 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: Rob [AquaticLife] Movin' on up...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11466 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: Rob [AquaticLife] Movin' on up...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11467 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11468 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: North Jersey LFS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11469 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/12/2005
Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11470 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: FW: Power Head for UGF
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11471 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11472 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11473 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC - More fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11474 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11475 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC - More fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11476 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC - More fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11477 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11478 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: Have LR and Protein Skimmer for Sale
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11479 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11480 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11481 From: Heather Norton Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Hi Im a new member and have Angels/Heather Norton
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11482 From: hnorton1cogeco.ca Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Eric Couple of set-up questions /Heather Norton
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11483 From: Linda Amundsen Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: pea gravel
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11484 From: Linda Amundsen Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: tank weight
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11485 From: Andy Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Question about Ick
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11486 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: pea gravel
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11487 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: Question about Ick
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11488 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: tank weight
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11489 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: Question about Ick
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11490 From: Andreas Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: infusium not growing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11491 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: weird oto/angel behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11492 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: Question about Ick
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11493 From: diz4555 Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: dwarf gouramis
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11494 From: harry perry Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: infusium not growing/infusoria
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11495 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11496 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11497 From: Eric Miner Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Messed up substrate?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11498 From: paul helms Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11499 From: paul helms Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: Have LR and Protein Skimmer for Sale
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11500 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: Have LR and Protein Skimmer for Sale
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11501 From: AL Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Parrot fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11502 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Native Fish Identification Database
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11503 From: Andy Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: Question about Ick
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11504 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11505 From: paul helms Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11506 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11507 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11508 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: back to pH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11509 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: Best on-line plant dealer?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11510 From: secretlaw Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: pea gravel
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11511 From: secretlaw Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: Question about Ick
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11512 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/13/2005
Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11513 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11514 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11515 From: mike mather Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: Messed up substrate?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11516 From: paul helms Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11517 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11518 From: paul helms Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11519 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11520 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11521 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: infusium not growing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11522 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: Hi Im a new member and have Angels/Heather Norton
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11523 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: Please help me. I am trying to set up my tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11524 From: Dawana B Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: Messed up substrate?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11525 From: Dawana B Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11526 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: feeder fish and platies( Rosey Reds)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11527 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: tank weight
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11528 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: Messed up substrate?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11529 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: Question about Ick
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11530 From: hnorton1cogeco.ca Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Angels/Heather Norton
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11531 From: wantvws Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: New tank for a newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11532 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: New tank for a newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11533 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11534 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11535 From: A.K. Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Hello & ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11536 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11537 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: was Hello & ?(Salt Questions )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11538 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: Hello & ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11539 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: infusium not growing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11540 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11541 From: wantvws Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: New tank for a newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11542 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: New tank for a newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11543 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Re: infusium not growing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11544 From: Tricia Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: Question about whether I am seeing eggs or not
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11545 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/14/2005
Subject: FishTankPics · The place for Fish & Aquarium pictures!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11546 From: paul helms Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: Hello & ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11547 From: paul helms Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11548 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: Question about whether I am seeing eggs or not
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11549 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: Question about whether I am seeing eggs or not
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11550 From: Eric Miner Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: How level is level enough?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11551 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: How level is level enough?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11552 From: Charlene Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Please help me. I am trying to set up my tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11553 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11554 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: How level is level enough?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11555 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Digest Number 775 Re: How level is level enough?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11556 From: Tricia Wilkerson Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: Question about whether I am seeing eggs or not
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11557 From: wantvws Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: New tank cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11558 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: How level is level enough?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11559 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: Please help me. I am trying to set up my tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11560 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: New tank cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11561 From: everquestdragon Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Snails and Ick Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11562 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: How level is level enough?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11563 From: paul helms Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: New tank cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11564 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Need help with mouth rot?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11565 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with mouth rot?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11566 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: Need help with mouth rot?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11567 From: wantvws Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: New tank cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11568 From: wantvws Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: New tank cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11569 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: New tank cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11570 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: Snails and Ick Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11571 From: Crazy4fids@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11572 From: Crazy4fids@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: angelfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11573 From: cynnamon dragon Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: Snails and Ick Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11574 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11575 From: Robbie Lawson Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: New tank cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11576 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: Snails and Ick Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11577 From: paul helms Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: New tank cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11578 From: paul helms Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11579 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
Subject: Re: New tank cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11580 From: daniel_roachus Date: 5/16/2005
Subject: Re: pea gravel
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11581 From: Robbie Lawson Date: 5/16/2005
Subject: Re: New tank set-up
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11582 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/16/2005
Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11583 From: Andreas Date: 5/16/2005
Subject: do clown loaches eat eggs?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11584 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/16/2005
Subject: Re: do clown loaches eat eggs?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11585 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/16/2005
Subject: Re: do clown loaches eat eggs?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11586 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/16/2005
Subject: Lighting for plants: Fluro's verses Halogen
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11587 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/16/2005
Subject: Re: New tank set-up
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11588 From: Andreas Date: 5/16/2005
Subject: algea eaters for specific conditions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11589 From: Paul N. Chung Date: 5/16/2005
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11590 From: anubias Date: 5/16/2005
Subject: hello and meeting notice
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11591 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/16/2005
Subject: Re: tank weight
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11592 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/16/2005
Subject: Tiger barbs not agressive in my experience.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11593 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/16/2005
Subject: Breading Tiger Barbs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11594 From: LobsterPond.com Date: 5/16/2005
Subject: Re: algea eaters for specific conditions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11595 From: Crazy4fids@aol.com Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: driftwood
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11596 From: Andreas Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: low PH shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11597 From: karima_allison Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: Can a Pleco survive in a pond?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11598 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: Re: Can a Pleco survive in a pond?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11599 From: Ron Hansen Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: Re: Can a Pleco survive in a pond?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11600 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: Re: Can a Pleco survive in a pond?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11601 From: paul helms Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: Re: Can a Pleco survive in a pond?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11602 From: paul helms Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: Re: low PH shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11603 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: Re: angelfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11604 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: Re: driftwood
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11605 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: Popeye
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11606 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: Re: Tiger barbs not agressive in my experience.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11607 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: Re: algea eaters for specific conditions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11608 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: Re: Question about whether I am seeing eggs or not
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11609 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: Re: Tiger barbs not agressive in my experience.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11610 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: Re: Breading Tiger Barbs - got any pics?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11611 From: J G Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: Re: Tiger barbs not agressive in my experience.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11612 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: Re: driftwood
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11613 From: Anne Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: New Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11614 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/17/2005
Subject: Re: Tiger barbs not agressive in my experience.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11615 From: hnorton1cogeco.ca Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: driftwood and other decorating /Heather Norton
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11616 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: Re: Popeye
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11617 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: Re: driftwood and other decorating /Heather Norton
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11618 From: Crazy4fids@aol.com Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: easy low light plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11619 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: Re: Popeye
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11620 From: Tricia Wilkerson Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11621 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: Re:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11622 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: Re: Popeye
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11623 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: Re: easy low light plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11624 From: Crazy4fids@aol.com Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: Re: easy low light plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11625 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: Re: Popeye
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11626 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: Re: easy low light plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11627 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: Re: easy low light plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11628 From: Eric Miner Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: Live food on-line?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11629 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: Re: easy low light plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11630 From: Tricia Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: White mold like substance on substrate....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11631 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: Re: easy low light plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11632 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: Re: easy low light plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11633 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: Re: easy low light plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11634 From: Anne Date: 5/18/2005
Subject: Re:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11635 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/19/2005
Subject: Re: easy low light plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11636 From: joequality1980 Date: 5/19/2005
Subject: Re: New Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11637 From: A.K. Date: 5/19/2005
Subject: To bubble or not....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11638 From: shutternow Date: 5/19/2005
Subject: New Member.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11639 From: fishyfishy95 Date: 5/19/2005
Subject: Having Problems with New Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11640 From: TankGurl Date: 5/19/2005
Subject: Re: Having Problems with New Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11641 From: fishyfishy95 Date: 5/19/2005
Subject: Re: Having Problems with New Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11642 From: joequality1980 Date: 5/19/2005
Subject: Re: New Member.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11643 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/19/2005
Subject: Re: Having Problems with New Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11644 From: fishyfishy95 Date: 5/19/2005
Subject: Re: Having Problems with New Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11645 From: Lauri Date: 5/19/2005
Subject: Re: Midas Coloration - update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11646 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/19/2005
Subject: Re: Having Problems with New Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11647 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/19/2005
Subject: nitrates -> a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11648 From: paul helms Date: 5/19/2005
Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11649 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/19/2005
Subject: Re: Midas Coloration - update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11650 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11651 From: paul helms Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11652 From: kb1dva Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: tank placement
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11653 From: anubias Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: Re: nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11654 From: anubias Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: Re: low light plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11655 From: Eric Miner Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: 'Milky' water in new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11656 From: fuzzybpebble Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: update on my tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11657 From: Dawana B Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11658 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: Re: 'Milky' water in new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11659 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11660 From: Eric Miner Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: Re: 'Milky' water in new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11661 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11662 From: Charlene Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: Hi again I want to find something out.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11663 From: Charlene Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: Hi again I want to find something out.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11664 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: Re: 'Milky' water in new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11665 From: Charlene Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: Hi again I want to find something out.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11666 From: paul helms Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: Re: Hi again I want to find something out.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11667 From: paul helms Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: Re: Hi again I want to find something out.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11668 From: paul helms Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: Re: 'Milky' water in new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11669 From: Crazy4fids@aol.com Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: Re: low light plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11670 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: Re: low light plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11671 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: Small White Specks on my Heater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11672 From: Crazy4fids@aol.com Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: Re: low light plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11673 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: Re: low light plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11674 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: Re: low light plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11675 From: Eric Miner Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: Shrimp, snails and the bio-load
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11676 From: Amanda Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: New here, A little about me, and a question!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11677 From: Alex Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: diy sump with LR and plant filters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11678 From: Tricia Wilkerson Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: Buffer up question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11679 From: TankGurl Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: Re: Buffer up question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11680 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: Re: Buffer up question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11681 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: Snail hatching updates!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11682 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11683 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: Re: tank placement
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11684 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: Re: Snail hatching updates!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11685 From: paul helms Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11686 From: paul helms Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: Re: diy sump with LR and plant filters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11687 From: fuzzybpebble Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: REUPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11688 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11689 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: raised black spots on new fish for community tank????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11690 From: J G Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: betta question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11691 From: paul helms Date: 5/21/2005
Subject: Re: REUPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11692 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: FW: Small White Specks on my Heater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11693 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: New here, A little about me, and a question!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11694 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11695 From: John Orzel Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Small Swordtail Babies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11696 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11697 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11698 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: raised black spots on new fish for community tank????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11699 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: New here, A little about me, and a question!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11700 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: FW: Small White Specks on my Heater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11701 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: FW: Small White Specks on my Heater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11702 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11703 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: Small White Specks on my Heater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11704 From: paul helms Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11705 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11706 From: Alex Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: diy sump with LR and plant filters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11707 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: raised black spots on new fish for community tank????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11708 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: raised black spots on new fish / trematodes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11709 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: FW: Small White Specks on my Heater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11710 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Two male BPs fighting/seperated
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11711 From: Tricia Wilkerson Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: Buffer up question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11712 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: raised black spots on new fish / trematodes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11713 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: Two male BPs fighting/seperated
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11714 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: raised black spots on new fish / trematodes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11715 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: Two male BPs fighting/seperated
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11716 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: raised black spots on new fish / trematodes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11717 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: raised black spots on new fish / trematodes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11718 From: paul helms Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11719 From: paul helms Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: diy sump with LR and plant filters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11720 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: FW: Small White Specks on my Heater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11721 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11722 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: REUPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11723 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: betta question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11724 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: raised black spots on new fish / trematodes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11725 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11726 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: FW: Small White Specks on my Heater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11727 From: wantvws Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: rock cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11728 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11729 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: low light plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11730 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: low light plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11731 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: rock cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11732 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11733 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: REUPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11734 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: easy low light plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11735 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11736 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11737 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: Lighting for plants: Fluro's verses Halogen
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11738 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11739 From: Joe Sevier Date: 5/22/2005
Subject: Need more members!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11740 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: Lighting for plants: Fluro's verses Halogen
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11741 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11742 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: REUPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11743 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: FW: Small White Specks on my Heater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11744 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: Two male BPs fighting/seperated
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11745 From: kb1dva Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11746 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: Two male BPs fighting/seperated -Ray
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11747 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: Two male BPs fighting/seperated -Ray
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11748 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: HELP - GREEN WATER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11749 From: Robert Hickey Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: stupid Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11750 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: REUPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11751 From: secretlaw Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11752 From: secretlaw Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: rock cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11753 From: secretlaw Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11754 From: Ron Hansen Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11755 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11756 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: Live food on-line?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11757 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11758 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11759 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11760 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: Two male BPs fighting/seperated -Ray
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11761 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11762 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: Two male BPs fighting/seperated -Ray
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11763 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: tank placement
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11764 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11765 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11766 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: FW: Small White Specks on my Heater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11767 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11768 From: paul helms Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11769 From: paul helms Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11770 From: paul helms Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11771 From: paul helms Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: REUPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11772 From: paul helms Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: rock cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11773 From: paul helms Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: REUPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11774 From: paul helms Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11775 From: Ted Angelo Date: 5/23/2005
Subject: bristlenose breeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11776 From: Crazy4fids@aol.com Date: 5/24/2005
Subject: water hardness, ph and water softners
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11777 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/24/2005
Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11778 From: Ron Hansen Date: 5/24/2005
Subject: Re: bristlenose breeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11779 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/24/2005
Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11780 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/24/2005
Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11781 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/24/2005
Subject: Re: REUPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11782 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/24/2005
Subject: Re: REUPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11783 From: dawana325 Date: 5/24/2005
Subject: Bio-wheel Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11784 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/24/2005
Subject: Re: Bio-wheel Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11785 From: Alex Date: 5/24/2005
Subject: Re: diy sump with LR and plant filters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11786 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/24/2005
Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11787 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/24/2005
Subject: Re: Lighting for plants: Fluro's verses Halogen
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11788 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/24/2005
Subject: Re: tank placement
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11789 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/24/2005
Subject: Lighting for plants my experience.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11790 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/24/2005
Subject: Re: stupid Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11791 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/24/2005
Subject: Sodium / HPS lamps? will they work with fish tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11792 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/24/2005
Subject: Re: Sodium / HPS lamps? will they work with fish tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11793 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/24/2005
Subject: Re: Live food on-line?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11794 From: Robert Hickey Date: 5/25/2005
Subject: Re: stupid Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11795 From: pam phetteplace Date: 5/25/2005
Subject: Re: stupid question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11796 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/25/2005
Subject: Re: Sodium / HPS lamps? will they work with fish tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11797 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/25/2005
Subject: Re: Sodium / HPS lamps? will they work with fish tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11798 From: avonjill923 Date: 5/25/2005
Subject: small room with an air conditioner!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11800 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/25/2005
Subject: Re: small room with an air conditioner!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11801 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/25/2005
Subject: Re: stupid Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11802 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/25/2005
Subject: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11803 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/25/2005
Subject: Re: Snail hatching updates!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11804 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/25/2005
Subject: Re: Snail hatching updates!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11805 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/25/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11806 From: paul helms Date: 5/25/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11807 From: paul helms Date: 5/25/2005
Subject: Re: diy sump with LR and plant filters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11808 From: Robert Hickey Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: stupid Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11809 From: dawana325 Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: HELP - Dwarf Gourami Problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11810 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11811 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: small room with an air conditioner!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11812 From: Jill Marie Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: small room with an air conditioner!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11813 From: kb1dva Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: kind of dumb question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11814 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: kind of dumb question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11815 From: kb1dva Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: kind of dumb question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11816 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: kind of dumb question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11817 From: kb1dva Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: kind of dumb question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11818 From: kb1dva Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: goofed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11819 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: small room with an air conditioner!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11820 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: kind of dumb question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11821 From: Rachel Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: goldfish aquarium,
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11822 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: goldfish aquarium,
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11823 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11824 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Pregnant or something else?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11825 From: Cher Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Need help fast confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11826 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: goldfish aquarium,
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11827 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: goldfish aquarium,
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11828 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: Pregnant or something else?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11829 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: Need help fast confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11830 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Ethical Question on Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11831 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11832 From: Cher Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: nicolas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11833 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11834 From: Cher Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Dane & Leslie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11835 From: knelson1701 Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11836 From: knelson1701 Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: Need help fast confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11837 From: nbv Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11838 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11839 From: paul helms Date: 5/26/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11840 From: Cher Date: 5/27/2005
Subject: Keith
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11841 From: Cher Date: 5/27/2005
Subject: Keith
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11842 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/27/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11843 From: Evita Date: 5/27/2005
Subject: Re: goldfish aquarium,
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11844 From: hnorton1cogeco.ca Date: 5/27/2005
Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11845 From: Jill Marie Date: 5/27/2005
Subject: Re: small room with an air conditioner!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11846 From: kb1dva Date: 5/27/2005
Subject: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11847 From: TankGurl Date: 5/27/2005
Subject: Re: confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11848 From: Amalthea Date: 5/27/2005
Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11849 From: paul helms Date: 5/27/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11850 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/27/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11851 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/27/2005
Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11852 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/27/2005
Subject: Re: raised black spots on new fish / trematodes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11853 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/27/2005
Subject: Re: Anubias
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11854 From: knelson1701 Date: 5/27/2005
Subject: Re: Keith
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11855 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/27/2005
Subject: Cichlid Research Center
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11856 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/27/2005
Subject: Re: Cichlid Research Center
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11857 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/27/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11858 From: Paul N. Chung Date: 5/28/2005
Subject: Do we have a Fish Doctor on board?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11859 From: paul helms Date: 5/28/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11860 From: wantvws Date: 5/28/2005
Subject: Non-Toxic Plastic Tubs??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11861 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/28/2005
Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11862 From: harry perry Date: 5/28/2005
Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding/To Steve Szabo.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11863 From: harry perry Date: 5/28/2005
Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding/To Steve Szabo.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11864 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/28/2005
Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11865 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/28/2005
Subject: Re: Non-Toxic Plastic Tubs??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11866 From: paul helms Date: 5/28/2005
Subject: Re: Non-Toxic Plastic Tubs??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11867 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/28/2005
Subject: Re: Non-Toxic Plastic Tubs??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11868 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 5/28/2005
Subject: crashing tanks and worms?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11869 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/28/2005
Subject: OT: Fish Decoys
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11870 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/28/2005
Subject: Re: Non-Toxic Plastic Tubs??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11871 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/28/2005
Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11872 From: Evita Date: 5/28/2005
Subject: Re: OT: Fish Decoys
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11873 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/28/2005
Subject: Re: Non-Toxic Plastic Tubs??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11874 From: paul helms Date: 5/28/2005
Subject: Re: Non-Toxic Plastic Tubs??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11875 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/29/2005
Subject: Re: Non-Toxic Plastic Tubs??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11876 From: EDITHAN1@AOL.COM Date: 5/29/2005
Subject: Re: Algae Growth???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11877 From: paul helms Date: 5/29/2005
Subject: Re: Algae Growth???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11878 From: daniel_roachus Date: 5/29/2005
Subject: Re: kind of dumb question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11879 From: wantvws Date: 5/29/2005
Subject: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11880 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/29/2005
Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11881 From: Jim Date: 5/29/2005
Subject: Fungus in new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11882 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/29/2005
Subject: Re: nicolas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11883 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/29/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11884 From: fishyfishy95 Date: 5/29/2005
Subject: What fish should I get?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11885 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 5/29/2005
Subject: Re: What fish should I get?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11886 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/29/2005
Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11887 From: wantvws Date: 5/29/2005
Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11888 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/29/2005
Subject: Re: What fish should I get?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11889 From: gracefullnature Date: 5/29/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11890 From: Karen Date: 5/29/2005
Subject: Hi, new to the group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11891 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/29/2005
Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11892 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11893 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11894 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11895 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11896 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11897 From: wantvws Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11898 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: Using Peat in a Filter - Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11901 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11902 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11903 From: Tim Fairchild Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11904 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11905 From: everquestdragon Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Fluorescent Light
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11906 From: Tim Fairchild Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11907 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11908 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11909 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11910 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: Keith
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11911 From: Nick Villarruz Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Fwd: Re: Organic Water Solutions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11912 From: nbv Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: fresh seafood from Roxas City, Capiz for sale worldwide
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11913 From: pondat2001 Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: limestone ph buffer
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11914 From: harry perry Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: fresh seafood from Roxas City, Capiz for sale worldwide/I don't
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11915 From: TankGurl Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: limestone ph buffer
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11916 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: Fungus in new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11917 From: paul helms Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11918 From: paul helms Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11919 From: paul helms Date: 5/30/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11920 From: Jim Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: Re: Fungus in new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11921 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11922 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: My experience - Fungi from over feeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11923 From: paul helms Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11924 From: fishyfishy95 Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: Oh - I have a Serpae Tetra - not a raspberry tetra
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11925 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: Starting up a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11926 From: fishyfishy95 Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: Origin of Giant Danio
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11927 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: Re: Origin of Giant Danio
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11928 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11929 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11930 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11931 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11933 From: pondat2001 Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: Re: limestone ph buffer
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11934 From: paul helms Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11935 From: paul helms Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: Re: Starting up a new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11936 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11937 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11938 From: Amalthea Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11939 From: Dragon Hunter Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11940 From: paul helms Date: 5/31/2005
Subject: Re: A request to the group management



Group: AquaticLife Message: 7574 From: paul helms Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
well since you want to nit pick there buddy....south
of the equater does not have cold water by any
means....cichlids (excluding africans) which are from
south america need warmer water than any that i
mentioned. for your information no one told me that
they are cold water fish, they are all fish that do
fine without a heater and most of them are hardy
enough to live in ponds where i am from (sf ay area in
ca). i have 12 consecutive years in the hobby and 3
in the industry, and i don't need your snippy reply.
if you disagree it is one thing to say that you would
not consider them cold water fish, but it is quite
another to come off like you are more qualified than
anyone else to give advice.
--- dreammaker2623 <dreammaker2623@...> wrote:

>
> --- In
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul
> helms
> <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
> > biology has nothing to do with reputation. the
> fish
> > used in a fish cycle are not supposed to be the
> one
> > you are planning on keeping alive....that is why
> most
> > people use feeders. many also used hardy cold
> water
> > fish like mollies, danios, guppies, etc. this is
> not
> > to say that they wll not survive, but there is les
> > than a 50/50 chance if you let it cycle naturally.
> if
> > you have the time to spend, as pat suggested, to
> > change water every couple days....then their
> chances
> > go up. i am not slandering the practice of the
> fish
> > cycle, just warning you that they may not survive
> it.
> > Mr. Murphy is usually at work here. if you want
> them
> > to survive the cycle they don't....if you don't
> care
> > they do.
> > --- Tim Fairchild <tim@b...> wrote:
>
>
> Who ever told you that mollies, guppies and danios
> swere ""hardy
> cold water fish"? These fish are concidered
> "tropical" in that their
> temp should be 70 degrees F. or above. Cold water
> fish would include
> goldfish and fish that cme from more northern
> climates such as our
> own (in the United States of America) or more
> southern like Southern
> South America. Or in the countries where the temp
> goes down to
> freezing or nearly.
>
>
>
>




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7575 From: paul helms Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
exactly
--- Ron F <aquaticdreamz@...> wrote:

>
> what ever works works but it takes a week for your
> water to balance out after a waqter change so doing
> weekly really in my opinion makes no sense.
>
> Ron
> Owner Aquatidreamz Group
>
> --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
>
> > that is what i was talking about.....i don't do
> > water
> > changes...you do them weekly
> > --- lois <lonelybbwmi2000@...> wrote:
> >
> > > I have a 55 gal. and started out cycling with 3
> > > platty's happy to say that they are still alive
> > and
> > > doing well.
> > > I do a water change ( 10 gal.) a week and
> > everything
> > > is good. lucky me, And the brown algae is
> starting
> > > to go away with the help of my extra otto's I
> put
> > in
> > > there, and with this new light fixture I
> have!!!!!
> > >
> > > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
> > > biology has nothing to do with reputation. the
> > fish
> > > used in a fish cycle are not supposed to be the
> > one
> > > you are planning on keeping alive....that is why
> > > most
> > > people use feeders. many also used hardy cold
> > water
> > > fish like mollies, danios, guppies, etc. this
> is
> > > not
> > > to say that they wll not survive, but there is
> les
> > > than a 50/50 chance if you let it cycle
> naturally.
> >
> > > if
> > > you have the time to spend, as pat suggested, to
> > > change water every couple days....then their
> > chances
> > > go up. i am not slandering the practice of the
> > fish
> > > cycle, just warning you that they may not
> survive
> > > it.
> > > Mr. Murphy is usually at work here. if you want
> > > them
> > > to survive the cycle they don't....if you don't
> > care
> > > they do.
> > > --- Tim Fairchild <tim@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Friday 31 Dec 2004 22:08,
> > > > angelasjenkins@... wrote:
> > > > > Well, obviously, I do hope these two fish
> > > survive.
> > > > I have read two books
> > > > > regarding the setting up of a freshwater
> > > aquarium
> > > > and am dealing with a
> > > > > reputable dealer. All three advise cycling
> > with
> > > a
> > > > small number of fish
> > > > > until the tank is established. At that
> time,
> > I
> > > > will add more fish.
> > > > >
> > > > > My question related to the changing of the
> > water
> > > > and maintaining the proper
> > > > > temperature of the water.
> > > >
> > > > You shouldn't have that much trouble keeping
> > these
> > > > fish alive, tho the tetra
> > > > can be more sensative to nitrites than others.
> > > > Still, get yourself a test kit
> > > > for ammonia and nitrite, etc, and keep check.
> > > You'll
> > > > probably want 25% waters
> > > > changes 3 times per week for a month or more
> > till
> > > > the tank settles. Once the
> > > > ammonia and nitrites drop you can go to weekly
> > > water
> > > > changes or so.
> > > >
> > > > Tho fishless cysle is the new way I would
> still
> > > > cycle with a small fish load,
> > > > then slowly add fish to the tank and let the
> > > > bacteria catch up.
> > > >
> > > > tim
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Tim & Therese Fairchild
> > > > Atchafalaya Border Collies.
> > > > Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Email mailto:tim@...
> > > > Homepage http://www.bcs4me.com
> > > > Photos http://www.pbase.com/amosf
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > > please delete this line and everything below it
> > when
> > > replying, thanks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > >
> >
>
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> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> > to:
> > >
> >
>
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> > >
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> > > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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>
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>
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7576 From: lois Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
so you' say that I should do water changings like how often? once every two weeks? and just add distilled water in between?

paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
exactly
--- Ron F <aquaticdreamz@...> wrote:

>
> what ever works works but it takes a week for your
> water to balance out after a waqter change so doing
> weekly really in my opinion makes no sense.
>
> Ron
> Owner Aquatidreamz Group
>
> --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
>
> > that is what i was talking about.....i don't do
> > water
> > changes...you do them weekly
> > --- lois <lonelybbwmi2000@...> wrote:
> >
> > > I have a 55 gal. and started out cycling with 3
> > > platty's happy to say that they are still alive
> > and
> > > doing well.
> > > I do a water change ( 10 gal.) a week and
> > everything
> > > is good. lucky me, And the brown algae is
> starting
> > > to go away with the help of my extra otto's I
> put
> > in
> > > there, and with this new light fixture I
> have!!!!!
> > >
> > > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
> > > biology has nothing to do with reputation.  the
> > fish
> > > used in a fish cycle are not supposed to be the
> > one
> > > you are planning on keeping alive....that is why
> > > most
> > > people use feeders.  many also used hardy cold
> > water
> > > fish like mollies, danios, guppies, etc.  this
> is
> > > not
> > > to say that they wll not survive, but there is
> les
> > > than a 50/50 chance if you let it cycle
> naturally.
> >
> > > if
> > > you have the time to spend, as pat suggested, to
> > > change water every couple days....then their
> > chances
> > > go up.  i am not slandering the practice of the
> > fish
> > > cycle, just warning you that they may not
> survive
> > > it.
> > > Mr. Murphy is usually at work here.  if you want
> > > them
> > > to survive the cycle they don't....if you don't
> > care
> > > they do.
> > > --- Tim Fairchild <tim@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Friday 31 Dec 2004 22:08,
> > > > angelasjenkins@... wrote:
> > > > > Well, obviously, I do hope these two fish
> > > survive.
> > > >  I have read two books
> > > > > regarding the setting up of a freshwater
> > > aquarium
> > > > and am dealing with a
> > > > > reputable dealer.  All three advise cycling
> > with
> > > a
> > > > small number of fish
> > > > > until the tank is established.  At that
> time,
> > I
> > > > will add more fish.
> > > > >
> > > > > My question related to the changing of the
> > water
> > > > and maintaining the proper
> > > > > temperature of the water.
> > > >
> > > > You shouldn't have that much trouble keeping
> > these
> > > > fish alive, tho the tetra
> > > > can be more sensative to nitrites than others.
> > > > Still, get yourself a test kit
> > > > for ammonia and nitrite, etc, and keep check.
> > > You'll
> > > > probably want 25% waters
> > > > changes 3 times per week for a month or more
> > till
> > > > the tank settles. Once the
> > > > ammonia and nitrites drop you can go to weekly
> > > water
> > > > changes or so.
> > > >
> > > > Tho fishless cysle is the new way I would
> still
> > > > cycle with a small fish load,
> > > > then slowly add fish to the tank and let the
> > > > bacteria catch up.
> > > >
> > > > tim
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> > > >   Tim & Therese Fairchild
> > > >   Atchafalaya Border Collies.
> > > >   Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> > > >  Email       mailto:tim@...
> > > >  Homepage    http://www.bcs4me.com
> > > >  Photos      http://www.pbase.com/amosf
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7577 From: Steve Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Mollies and danios are NOT cold water fish. Guppies are not cold water fish
either, though they can survive at lower temperatures than the other two
species mentioned.

Mollies are not often found in freshwater in the wild. They are a brackish
water fish, and need a temperature of at lest the lower 70's to do well.
Less than 74^o F., and they are susceptible to ich and the shimmies. While
there are mollies found in the US, the Gulf Coast areas, and Florida's
Atlantic coast to a certain extent, most species of mollies are found in
warmer climes. The sole exception of the fish called mollies in the
vernacular, is _Poecilia sphenops_, which may be found on water that gets
into the mid 60's.

Most danios, which are from Asia, should not be kept below 70^o F. The
exception is the zebrafish, which can tolerate water in the mid-60's.

Guppies are listed with a low end temperature of 64^o F., but have been
known to survive at lesser temperatures. The operative word here is survive.

By no means are any of these fishes coldwater fishes. One cannot even argue
that any of these fishes are temperate water fishes. They are all tropical
fishes. Goldfish are temperate water fish.

As for hardy fish to cycle a tank, guppies certainly can fit the bill. I'm
not familiar enough with keeping danios of any sort to either recommend or
deny that they are suitable fish for cycling. Mollies are definitely not
suitable for cycling. While often touted as a "beginner" fish, probably
solely because they are livebearers, their requirements for water quality
and temperature make them unsuitable for many novices, and on this basis
alone I would rule them out as a fish to use for cycling. However, their
requirements for a higher temperature alone would be enough to rule them out
as well as their susceptibility to the shimmies and ich.

Frankly, it is a lot easier and less worrisome to cycle a tank without fish
than to do it with fish, particularly if the fish you plan to keep are not
suitable to the fish you wish to keep.

\\Steve//

-----Original Message-----
From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 6:55 AM
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
AquaticLife ] Very New Aquarium



well since you want to nit pick there buddy....south
of the equater does not have cold water by any
means....cichlids (excluding africans) which are from
south america need warmer water than any that i
mentioned. for your information no one told me that
they are cold water fish, they are all fish that do
fine without a heater and most of them are hardy
enough to live in ponds where i am from (sf ay area in
ca). i have 12 consecutive years in the hobby and 3
in the industry, and i don't need your snippy reply.
if you disagree it is one thing to say that you would
not consider them cold water fish, but it is quite
another to come off like you are more qualified than
anyone else to give advice.
--- dreammaker2623 <dreammaker2623@...> wrote:

>
> --- In
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul
> helms
> <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
> > biology has nothing to do with reputation. the
> fish
> > used in a fish cycle are not supposed to be the
> one
> > you are planning on keeping alive....that is why
> most
> > people use feeders. many also used hardy cold
> water
> > fish like mollies, danios, guppies, etc. this is
> not
> > to say that they wll not survive, but there is les
> > than a 50/50 chance if you let it cycle naturally.
> if
> > you have the time to spend, as pat suggested, to
> > change water every couple days....then their
> chances
> > go up. i am not slandering the practice of the
> fish
> > cycle, just warning you that they may not survive
> it.
> > Mr. Murphy is usually at work here. if you want
> them
> > to survive the cycle they don't....if you don't
> care
> > they do.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7578 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: Very New Aquarium
"it takes a week for your water to balance out after a waqter change"
 
    I don't know if I believe that.  It is the common statement used by people who oppose weekly water changes to justify their in-actions.  I could come up with several things to justify my actions.  All water is different, but I would think it would balance out a lot faster.  If you mean it takes a week for nitrate levels to return to where they were before the water change, then weekly water changes are required to keep them in control.  If it takes a week for nitrates to return to pre-change levels, in a few weeks they will go over 100 ppm and start harming the fish.  If you mean for the balance of gases in the water, I doubt it too because a little stirring and aeration/filtration will do that quickly.  My main response is that water changes can't hurt.  Anti-changers would say they can hurt.  There is no reliable evidence (meaning it comes from an unbiased source) to say if it can or can't hurt.  Anti-changers say water changes unbalance the tank, pro-changers say water changes maintain the balance in the tank.  This argument has been going for probably centuries back to the Asian fellow that kept the first goldfish.
    My opinion is that we should quit guessing when we need a water change and use test kits.  When nitrates hit 20 or 30 ppm, do enough of a water change to bring them down to 5 or 10.  That method would require a lot of testing, and would mean every tank would have a different schedule that would change constantly.  Not many people would do that, so weekly water changes keep nitrates low without testing.
    I'm not saying weekly water changes are needed for everybody, that is an opinion.  And opinions are like eyes, everybody has two of them.  There is no such thing as an exact science in aquaria, so what works for you works for you. :)
 
Patrick N.
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
-------Original Message-------
what ever works works but it takes a week for your
water to balance out after a waqter change so doing
weekly really in my opinion makes no sense.

Ron
Owner Aquatidreamz Group
Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7579 From: lois Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
ty patrick, and happy new year to ya!

"Patrick, The American Fish Guy" <americanfishguy@...> wrote:
"it takes a week for your water to balance out after a waqter change"
 
    I don't know if I believe that.  It is the common statement used by people who oppose weekly water changes to justify their in-actions.  I could come up with several things to justify my actions.  All water is different, but I would think it would balance out a lot faster.  If you mean it takes a week for nitrate levels to return to where they were before the water change, then weekly water changes are required to keep them in control.  If it takes a week for nitrates to return to pre-change levels, in a few weeks they will go over 100 ppm and start harming the fish.  If you mean for the balance of gases in the water, I doubt it too because a little stirring and aeration/filtration will do that quickly.  My main response is that water changes can't hurt.  Anti-changers would say they can hurt.  There is no reliable evidence (meaning it comes from an unbiased source) to say if it can or can't hurt.  Anti-changers say water changes unbalance the tank, pro-changers say water changes maintain the balance in the tank.  This argument has been going for probably centuries back to the Asian fellow that kept the first goldfish.
    My opinion is that we should quit guessing when we need a water change and use test kits.  When nitrates hit 20 or 30 ppm, do enough of a water change to bring them down to 5 or 10.  That method would require a lot of testing, and would mean every tank would have a different schedule that would change constantly.  Not many people would do that, so weekly water changes keep nitrates low without testing.
    I'm not saying weekly water changes are needed for everybody, that is an opinion.  And opinions are like eyes, everybody has two of them.  There is no such thing as an exact science in aquaria, so what works for you works for you. :)
 
Patrick N.
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
-------Original Message-------
what ever works works but it takes a week for your
water to balance out after a waqter change so doing
weekly really in my opinion makes no sense.

Ron
Owner Aquatidreamz Group
Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7580 From: Ron F Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
I agree with Steve. I cycle without fish for 1 to 2
weeks and slowly add fish after that period. Have
done it this way for years on my own and my customers
tanks. But as I said before everyone has their own
styles of doing things. But in this line of work if I
set up a customers tank and use "cycle" fish and they
die there goes my reputation.
--- Steve <steve@...> wrote:

> Mollies and danios are NOT cold water fish. Guppies
> are not cold water fish
> either, though they can survive at lower
> temperatures than the other two
> species mentioned.
>
> Mollies are not often found in freshwater in the
> wild. They are a brackish
> water fish, and need a temperature of at lest the
> lower 70's to do well.
> Less than 74^o F., and they are susceptible to ich
> and the shimmies. While
> there are mollies found in the US, the Gulf Coast
> areas, and Florida's
> Atlantic coast to a certain extent, most species of
> mollies are found in
> warmer climes. The sole exception of the fish called
> mollies in the
> vernacular, is _Poecilia sphenops_, which may be
> found on water that gets
> into the mid 60's.
>
> Most danios, which are from Asia, should not be kept
> below 70^o F. The
> exception is the zebrafish, which can tolerate water
> in the mid-60's.
>
> Guppies are listed with a low end temperature of
> 64^o F., but have been
> known to survive at lesser temperatures. The
> operative word here is survive.
>
> By no means are any of these fishes coldwater
> fishes. One cannot even argue
> that any of these fishes are temperate water fishes.
> They are all tropical
> fishes. Goldfish are temperate water fish.
>
> As for hardy fish to cycle a tank, guppies certainly
> can fit the bill. I'm
> not familiar enough with keeping danios of any sort
> to either recommend or
> deny that they are suitable fish for cycling.
> Mollies are definitely not
> suitable for cycling. While often touted as a
> "beginner" fish, probably
> solely because they are livebearers, their
> requirements for water quality
> and temperature make them unsuitable for many
> novices, and on this basis
> alone I would rule them out as a fish to use for
> cycling. However, their
> requirements for a higher temperature alone would be
> enough to rule them out
> as well as their susceptibility to the shimmies and
> ich.
>
> Frankly, it is a lot easier and less worrisome to
> cycle a tank without fish
> than to do it with fish, particularly if the fish
> you plan to keep are not
> suitable to the fish you wish to keep.
>
> \\Steve//
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
> Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 6:55 AM
> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group
> name soon to be
> AquaticLife ] Very New Aquarium
>
>
>
> well since you want to nit pick there buddy....south
> of the equater does not have cold water by any
> means....cichlids (excluding africans) which are
> from
> south america need warmer water than any that i
> mentioned. for your information no one told me that
> they are cold water fish, they are all fish that do
> fine without a heater and most of them are hardy
> enough to live in ponds where i am from (sf ay area
> in
> ca). i have 12 consecutive years in the hobby and 3
> in the industry, and i don't need your snippy reply.
> if you disagree it is one thing to say that you
> would
> not consider them cold water fish, but it is quite
> another to come off like you are more qualified than
> anyone else to give advice.
> --- dreammaker2623 <dreammaker2623@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > --- In
> > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
> paul
> > helms
> > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
> > > biology has nothing to do with reputation. the
> > fish
> > > used in a fish cycle are not supposed to be the
> > one
> > > you are planning on keeping alive....that is why
> > most
> > > people use feeders. many also used hardy cold
> > water
> > > fish like mollies, danios, guppies, etc. this
> is
> > not
> > > to say that they wll not survive, but there is
> les
> > > than a 50/50 chance if you let it cycle
> naturally.
> > if
> > > you have the time to spend, as pat suggested, to
> > > change water every couple days....then their
> > chances
> > > go up. i am not slandering the practice of the
> > fish
> > > cycle, just warning you that they may not
> survive
> > it.
> > > Mr. Murphy is usually at work here. if you want
> > them
> > > to survive the cycle they don't....if you don't
> > care
> > > they do.
>
>


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7581 From: Ron F Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
I do water changes on a bi weekly basis. and yes
distilled water is fine. And if you are wondering
such as other messages I have seen in here I have 15
years experience and 10 in the industry.

Ron
--- lois <lonelybbwmi2000@...> wrote:

> so you' say that I should do water changings like
> how often? once every two weeks? and just add
> distilled water in between?
>
> paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:exactly
> --- Ron F <aquaticdreamz@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > what ever works works but it takes a week for your
> > water to balance out after a waqter change so
> doing
> > weekly really in my opinion makes no sense.
> >
> > Ron
> > Owner Aquatidreamz Group
> >
> > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
> >
> > > that is what i was talking about.....i don't do
> > > water
> > > changes...you do them weekly
> > > --- lois <lonelybbwmi2000@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have a 55 gal. and started out cycling with
> 3
> > > > platty's happy to say that they are still
> alive
> > > and
> > > > doing well.
> > > > I do a water change ( 10 gal.) a week and
> > > everything
> > > > is good. lucky me, And the brown algae is
> > starting
> > > > to go away with the help of my extra otto's I
> > put
> > > in
> > > > there, and with this new light fixture I
> > have!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
> > > > biology has nothing to do with reputation.
> the
> > > fish
> > > > used in a fish cycle are not supposed to be
> the
> > > one
> > > > you are planning on keeping alive....that is
> why
> > > > most
> > > > people use feeders. many also used hardy cold
> > > water
> > > > fish like mollies, danios, guppies, etc. this
> > is
> > > > not
> > > > to say that they wll not survive, but there is
> > les
> > > > than a 50/50 chance if you let it cycle
> > naturally.
> > >
> > > > if
> > > > you have the time to spend, as pat suggested,
> to
> > > > change water every couple days....then their
> > > chances
> > > > go up. i am not slandering the practice of
> the
> > > fish
> > > > cycle, just warning you that they may not
> > survive
> > > > it.
> > > > Mr. Murphy is usually at work here. if you
> want
> > > > them
> > > > to survive the cycle they don't....if you
> don't
> > > care
> > > > they do.
> > > > --- Tim Fairchild <tim@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Friday 31 Dec 2004 22:08,
> > > > > angelasjenkins@... wrote:
> > > > > > Well, obviously, I do hope these two fish
> > > > survive.
> > > > > I have read two books
> > > > > > regarding the setting up of a freshwater
> > > > aquarium
> > > > > and am dealing with a
> > > > > > reputable dealer. All three advise
> cycling
> > > with
> > > > a
> > > > > small number of fish
> > > > > > until the tank is established. At that
> > time,
> > > I
> > > > > will add more fish.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My question related to the changing of the
> > > water
> > > > > and maintaining the proper
> > > > > > temperature of the water.
> > > > >
> > > > > You shouldn't have that much trouble keeping
> > > these
> > > > > fish alive, tho the tetra
> > > > > can be more sensative to nitrites than
> others.
> > > > > Still, get yourself a test kit
> > > > > for ammonia and nitrite, etc, and keep
> check.
> > > > You'll
> > > > > probably want 25% waters
> > > > > changes 3 times per week for a month or more
> > > till
> > > > > the tank settles. Once the
> > > > > ammonia and nitrites drop you can go to
> weekly
> > > > water
> > > > > changes or so.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tho fishless cysle is the new way I would
> > still
> > > > > cycle with a small fish load,
> > > > > then slowly add fish to the tank and let the
> > > > > bacteria catch up.
> > > > >
> > > > > tim
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > Tim & Therese Fairchild
> > > > > Atchafalaya Border Collies.
> > > > > Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > Email mailto:tim@...
> > > > > Homepage http://www.bcs4me.com
> > > > > Photos http://www.pbase.com/amosf
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail
> > > SpamGuard.
> > > >
> > > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > please delete this line and everything below
> it
> > > when
> > > > replying, thanks
> > > >
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7582 From: paul helms Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
i believe the reference is to water changes over 25%
pat, for my part anyway it is. small water changes of
5-10% are always good imo
--- "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
<americanfishguy@...> wrote:

> "it takes a week for your water to balance out after
> a waqter change"
>
> I don't know if I believe that. It is the
> common statement used by
> people who oppose weekly water changes to justify
> their in-actions. I could
> come up with several things to justify my actions.
> All water is different,
> but I would think it would balance out a lot faster.
> If you mean it takes a
> week for nitrate levels to return to where they were
> before the water change
> then weekly water changes are required to keep them
> in control. If it
> takes a week for nitrates to return to pre-change
> levels, in a few weeks
> they will go over 100 ppm and start harming the
> fish. If you mean for the
> balance of gases in the water, I doubt it too
> because a little stirring and
> aeration/filtration will do that quickly. My main
> response is that water
> changes can't hurt. Anti-changers would say they
> can hurt. There is no
> reliable evidence (meaning it comes from an unbiased
> source) to say if it
> can or can't hurt. Anti-changers say water changes
> unbalance the tank,
> pro-changers say water changes maintain the balance
> in the tank. This
> argument has been going for probably centuries back
> to the Asian fellow that
> kept the first goldfish.
> My opinion is that we should quit guessing when
> we need a water change
> and use test kits. When nitrates hit 20 or 30 ppm,
> do enough of a water
> change to bring them down to 5 or 10. That method
> would require a lot of
> testing, and would mean every tank would have a
> different schedule that
> would change constantly. Not many people would do
> that, so weekly water
> changes keep nitrates low without testing.
> I'm not saying weekly water changes are needed
> for everybody, that is an
> opinion. And opinions are like eyes, everybody has
> two of them. There is
> no such thing as an exact science in aquaria, so
> what works for you works
> for you. :)
>
> Patrick N.
>
> Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
> Cycle.
> Nitrogen Cycle
> About my tanks:
> 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
> -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
> skirt tetras, 2
> home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli
> cories, 1 pleco, one
> female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
> -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
> banana plants, java ferns,
> hornwort, and amazon swords.
> -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
> 30-60 power filter.
> 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
> -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
> -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
> amazon sword.
> -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
> gravel, Regent 10-15 power
> filter.
> -------Original Message-------
> what ever works works but it takes a week for your
> water to balance out after a waqter change so doing
> weekly really in my opinion makes no sense.
>
> Ron
> Owner Aquatidreamz Group




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7583 From: Rob Robinson Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Limescale
Hi,

What's the best way to remove Limescale from the edges of aquariums?

I heard vinegar was a good way to remove it.

Any ideas or comments appreciated,
Rob.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7584 From: lois Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Well I do appreciate the info, and with you being in the business, I will take your advice.
 I have a friend that has had aquariums for over 30 yrs, and he told me the same thing.
 Again thank you very much!
Distilled, because that way I'm not adding any minerals to the tank is what I have been told.
Ron F <aquaticdreamz@...> wrote:

I do water changes on a bi weekly basis.  and yes
distilled water is fine.  And if you are wondering
such as other messages I have seen in here  I have 15
years experience and 10 in the industry.

Ron
--- lois <lonelybbwmi2000@...> wrote:

> so you' say that I should do water changings like
> how often? once every two weeks? and just add
> distilled water in between?
>
> paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:exactly
> --- Ron F <aquaticdreamz@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > what ever works works but it takes a week for your
> > water to balance out after a waqter change so
> doing
> > weekly really in my opinion makes no sense.
> >
> > Ron
> > Owner Aquatidreamz Group
> >
> > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
> >
> > > that is what i was talking about.....i don't do
> > > water
> > > changes...you do them weekly
> > > --- lois <lonelybbwmi2000@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have a 55 gal. and started out cycling with
> 3
> > > > platty's happy to say that they are still
> alive
> > > and
> > > > doing well.
> > > > I do a water change ( 10 gal.) a week and
> > > everything
> > > > is good. lucky me, And the brown algae is
> > starting
> > > > to go away with the help of my extra otto's I
> > put
> > > in
> > > > there, and with this new light fixture I
> > have!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
> > > > biology has nothing to do with reputation.
> the
> > > fish
> > > > used in a fish cycle are not supposed to be
> the
> > > one
> > > > you are planning on keeping alive....that is
> why
> > > > most
> > > > people use feeders.  many also used hardy cold
> > > water
> > > > fish like mollies, danios, guppies, etc.  this
> > is
> > > > not
> > > > to say that they wll not survive, but there is
> > les
> > > > than a 50/50 chance if you let it cycle
> > naturally.
> > >
> > > > if
> > > > you have the time to spend, as pat suggested,
> to
> > > > change water every couple days....then their
> > > chances
> > > > go up.  i am not slandering the practice of
> the
> > > fish
> > > > cycle, just warning you that they may not
> > survive
> > > > it.
> > > > Mr. Murphy is usually at work here.  if you
> want
> > > > them
> > > > to survive the cycle they don't....if you
> don't
> > > care
> > > > they do.
> > > > --- Tim Fairchild <tim@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Friday 31 Dec 2004 22:08,
> > > > > angelasjenkins@... wrote:
> > > > > > Well, obviously, I do hope these two fish
> > > > survive.
> > > > >  I have read two books
> > > > > > regarding the setting up of a freshwater
> > > > aquarium
> > > > > and am dealing with a
> > > > > > reputable dealer.  All three advise
> cycling
> > > with
> > > > a
> > > > > small number of fish
> > > > > > until the tank is established.  At that
> > time,
> > > I
> > > > > will add more fish.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My question related to the changing of the
> > > water
> > > > > and maintaining the proper
> > > > > > temperature of the water.
> > > > >
> > > > > You shouldn't have that much trouble keeping
> > > these
> > > > > fish alive, tho the tetra
> > > > > can be more sensative to nitrites than
> others.
> > > > > Still, get yourself a test kit
> > > > > for ammonia and nitrite, etc, and keep
> check.
> > > > You'll
> > > > > probably want 25% waters
> > > > > changes 3 times per week for a month or more
> > > till
> > > > > the tank settles. Once the
> > > > > ammonia and nitrites drop you can go to
> weekly
> > > > water
> > > > > changes or so.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tho fishless cysle is the new way I would
> > still
> > > > > cycle with a small fish load,
> > > > > then slowly add fish to the tank and let the
> > > > > bacteria catch up.
> > > > >
> > > > > tim
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >   Tim & Therese Fairchild
> > > > >   Atchafalaya Border Collies.
> > > > >   Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >  Email       mailto:tim@...
> > > > >  Homepage    http://www.bcs4me.com
> > > > >  Photos      http://www.pbase.com/amosf
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7585 From: dreammaker2623 Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
<wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
> well since you want to nit pick there buddy....south
> of the equater does not have cold water by any
> means....cichlids (excluding africans) which are from
> south america need warmer water than any that i
> mentioned. for your information no one told me that
> they are cold water fish, they are all fish that do
> fine without a heater and most of them are hardy
> enough to live in ponds where i am from (sf ay area in
> ca). i have 12 consecutive years in the hobby and 3
> in the industry, and i don't need your snippy reply.
> if you disagree it is one thing to say that you would
> not consider them cold water fish, but it is quite
> another to come off like you are more qualified than
> anyone else to give advice.


I guess that the South pole is in hot water then.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7586 From: dreammaker2623 Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
The way I like to explain water changes to people (even kids) so
that everyone can understand is that an aquarium is like a house
with out a toilet. Since fishes cannot get out of the tank and go to
the bathroom they therefore have to use the tank to do their dirty
duty. The only way to get rid of this polution is to take out water
(with the polution in it) along with vacuming the gravel (to get rid
or other pollutions in the tank) and replace with fresh declorinated
water of about the same temp and pH. Naturally if you have only one
neon tetra in a 55 gallon tank you will not need to change water as
often as if you have a pair of 10 inch Jack Dempsies in a 20 gallon
tank. There are few pleople that would only have one small fish in a
rather large tank by itself but more would crowd fish into a smaller
tank. By doing smaller water changes frequently you run less chance
of changing the water and therby lowering the resistnace to
diseases.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7587 From: lois Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Here is what I have:
 55 gal tank
2  H.O.T. Magnum Bio-Pro 30 filtration systems, both have bio wheels on them
i have a lot of friends in my tank
 2 silver dollars
9 neons
3 platties
2 mollies
4 guarami's
2 bumble bee gobies
several otto's
several cory's
2 angels
and 2 clown loches
 would you say every week, or every other week?
all my aqua friends seem to be happy and healthy

dreammaker2623 <dreammaker2623@...> wrote:

The way I like to explain water changes to people (even kids) so
that everyone can understand is that an aquarium is like a house
with out a toilet. Since fishes cannot get out of the tank and go to
the bathroom they therefore have to use the tank to do their dirty
duty. The only way to get rid of this polution is to take out water
(with the polution in it) along with vacuming the gravel (to get rid
or other pollutions in the tank) and replace with fresh declorinated
water of about the same temp and pH. Naturally if you have only one
neon tetra in a 55 gallon tank you will not need to change water as
often as if you have a pair of 10 inch Jack Dempsies in a 20 gallon
tank. There are few pleople that would only have one small fish in a
rather large tank by itself but more would crowd fish into a smaller
tank. By doing smaller water changes frequently you run less chance
of changing the water  and therby lowering the resistnace to
diseases.





please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7588 From: dreammaker2623 Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
It is good habit to get into changing every week at least 10 to 20%
of the water. It depends on what the fish load is in the tank. You
do not give the sizes of the fishes so it is not clear as to the
fish load. If all of these fishes were full grown then you would be
overcrowded. With silver dollars I can tell you that having live
plants is not a very easy thing to have because they eat live
plants. What kind of gouramis do you have? Some only get ot be about
2 inches whereas the true giant gourami gets to be over 18 inches
long. The angels can get to be fairly large and should have about 10
gallons per fish. There is also the matter of how much do you feed
them? I would say that 10 gallons a week would not be overkill on
water changes, maybe even do a couple of changes of 5 gallons each
week. If you have live houlse plants then you can use the water from
the water changes to water your house plants (as long as you do not
drown them or the tanks is a salt water tank).


--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, lois
<lonelybbwmi2000@y...> wrote:
> Here is what I have:
> 55 gal tank
> 2 H.O.T. Magnum Bio-Pro 30 filtration systems, both have bio
wheels on them
> i have a lot of friends in my tank
> 2 silver dollars
> 9 neons
> 3 platties
> 2 mollies
> 4 guarami's
> 2 bumble bee gobies
> several otto's
> several cory's
> 2 angels
> and 2 clown loches
> would you say every week, or every other week?
> all my aqua friends seem to be happy and healthy
as
> often as if you have a pair of 10 inch Jack Dempsies in a 20
gallon
> tank. There are few pleople that would only have one small fish in
a
> rather large tank by itself but more would crowd fish into a
smaller
> tank. By doing smaller water changes frequently you run less
chance
> of changing the water and therby lowering the resistnace to
> diseases.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7589 From: lois Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
dwarf gauramis, and the silver fish are going to my daughters, here soon. they belong to her , but she needed to to some thinning out of the monsterous algae eaters and exchange them for cory's


dreammaker2623 <dreammaker2623@...> wrote:

It is good habit to get into changing every week at least 10 to 20%
of the water. It depends on what the fish load is in the tank. You
do not give the sizes of the fishes so it is not clear as to the
fish load. If all of these fishes were full grown then you would be
overcrowded. With silver dollars I can tell you that having live
plants is not a very easy thing to have because they eat live
plants. What kind of gouramis do you have? Some only get ot be about
2 inches whereas the true giant gourami gets to be over 18 inches
long. The angels can get to be fairly large and should have about 10
gallons per fish.  There is also the matter of how much do you feed
them? I would say that 10 gallons a week would not be overkill on
water changes, maybe even do a couple of changes of 5 gallons each
week. If you have live houlse plants then you can use the water from
the water changes to water your house plants (as long as you do not
drown them or the tanks is a salt water tank).


--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, lois
<lonelybbwmi2000@y...> wrote:
> Here is what I have:
>  55 gal tank
> 2  H.O.T. Magnum Bio-Pro 30 filtration systems, both have bio
wheels on them
> i have a lot of friends in my tank
>  2 silver dollars
> 9 neons
> 3 platties
> 2 mollies
> 4 guarami's
> 2 bumble bee gobies
> several otto's
> several cory's
> 2 angels
> and 2 clown loches
>  would you say every week, or every other week?
> all my aqua friends seem to be happy and healthy
as
> often as if you have a pair of 10 inch Jack Dempsies in a 20
gallon
> tank. There are few pleople that would only have one small fish in
a
> rather large tank by itself but more would crowd fish into a
smaller
> tank. By doing smaller water changes frequently you run less
chance
> of changing the water  and therby lowering the resistnace to
> diseases.






please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7590 From: Steve Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Lois,

It is not so much what you have in your tank, but what the water parameters
are. What is your pH? Is it stable or is it dropping? What is your ammonia,
what is your nitrite, what is your nitrate?

Weekly water changes are often recommended, and they are probably the way to
go. When doing a water change, check your filter and clean as needed. Prune
your pants if necessary, do a bit of housekeeping.

I'm still trying to figure out the statement made earlier about it taking a
week to stabilize a tank after a water change. If anything, the positive
effects of a water change are noted immediately.

One thing not often mentioned, is that a water change will dilute the
chemicals released by the fish themselves. Things like the hormone that
inhibits growth. I remember doing water changes at least every other day
when growing out fish. The more frequent water changes meant better growth
and larger fish than those that were kept in other tanks not receiving water
changes at such a frequency.

Can you get away with less frequent water changes? Yep, you can. However,
the less frequent water change can be detrimental to your fish over the long
term. It allows the bad stuff to build up in your tank, which will
eventually be adverse to your charges.

I've heard dreammaker2623's explanation before, in many places. However, the
way I look at it is that fish found in the wild have a continual water
change in that water is constantly being replaced by the water from
upstream, or the water that is moving through the lake or the pond. Fish are
also found in lower densities in the wild compared to our tanks. The next
time you go to the lake or stream, take a careful and close look at how many
fish are found in a given area, and compare that to your tank. There are not
many. A fish in the wild has many times the water volume than a fish in your
tank. Even if you had only one neon in the 55 you have, he still has less
water volume than he would have available to him in the wild.

Keep up the weekly water changes, at least 10 percent, and if you can do it
more frequently, feel free. Your fish will love it and live healthier lives.

\\Steve//

-----Original Message-----
From: lois [mailto:lonelybbwmi2000@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 8:01 PM
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
AquaticLife ] Very New Aquarium


Here is what I have:
55 gal tank
2 H.O.T. Magnum Bio-Pro 30 filtration systems, both have bio wheels on them
i have a lot of friends in my tank
2 silver dollars
9 neons
3 platties
2 mollies
4 guarami's
2 bumble bee gobies
several otto's
several cory's
2 angels
and 2 clown loches
would you say every week, or every other week?
all my aqua friends seem to be happy and healthy

dreammaker2623 <dreammaker2623@...> wrote:

The way I like to explain water changes to people (even kids) so
that everyone can understand is that an aquarium is like a house
with out a toilet. Since fishes cannot get out of the tank and go to
the bathroom they therefore have to use the tank to do their dirty
duty. The only way to get rid of this polution is to take out water
(with the polution in it) along with vacuming the gravel (to get rid
or other pollutions in the tank) and replace with fresh declorinated
water of about the same temp and pH. Naturally if you have only one
neon tetra in a 55 gallon tank you will not need to change water as
often as if you have a pair of 10 inch Jack Dempsies in a 20 gallon
tank. There are few pleople that would only have one small fish in a
rather large tank by itself but more would crowd fish into a smaller
tank. By doing smaller water changes frequently you run less chance
of changing the water and therby lowering the resistnace to
diseases.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7591 From: Lyndsay Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Stocking Question
Hello everyone, I am new to tropical fish (I have three male bettas,
that's it so far) and I am planning on getting a 24 gallon tank. I
have researched the fish I want and have made changes to my 'list',
I've researched cycling, water changes, cleaning tanks, algae and
disease problems and so on but I need some expert advice on whether I
will be overstocking the tank if I have:

10 neon tetras
6 zebra danios
3 albino corys
1 bumblebee goby and
3 female bettas

I also plan on having it planted with very hardy, easy to care for
plants.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7592 From: lois Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
 Steve;
Well my amonia is at zero!!! i ran out of strips so i need to go to my lfs and get more. thank you for the info....Lois Will continue doing weekly water changes, 10 gal. is what i have been doing. Gotta go take care!

Steve <steve@...> wrote:
Lois,

It is not so much what you have in your tank, but what the water parameters
are. What is your pH? Is it stable or is it dropping? What is your ammonia,
what is your nitrite, what is your nitrate?

Weekly water changes are often recommended, and they are probably the way to
go. When doing a water change, check your filter and clean as needed. Prune
your pants if necessary, do a bit of housekeeping.

I'm still trying to figure out the statement made earlier about it taking a
week to stabilize a tank after a water change. If anything, the positive
effects of a water change are noted immediately.

One thing not often mentioned, is that a water change will dilute the
chemicals released by the fish themselves.  Things like the hormone that
inhibits growth. I remember doing water changes at least every other day
when growing out fish. The more frequent water changes meant better growth
and larger fish than those that were kept in other tanks not receiving water
changes at such a frequency.

Can you get away with less frequent water changes? Yep, you can. However,
the less frequent water change can be detrimental to your fish over the long
term. It allows the bad stuff to build up in your tank, which will
eventually be adverse to your charges.

I've heard dreammaker2623's explanation before, in many places. However, the
way I look at it is that fish found in the wild have a continual water
change in that water is constantly being replaced by the water from
upstream, or the water that is moving through the lake or the pond. Fish are
also found in lower densities in the wild compared to our tanks. The next
time you go to the lake or stream, take a careful and close look at how many
fish are found in a given area, and compare that to your tank. There are not
many. A fish in the wild has many times the water volume than a fish in your
tank. Even if you had only one neon in the 55 you have, he still has less
water volume than he would have available to him in the wild.

Keep up the weekly water changes, at least 10 percent, and if you can do it
more frequently, feel free. Your fish will love it and live healthier lives.

\\Steve//

-----Original Message-----
From: lois [mailto:lonelybbwmi2000@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 8:01 PM
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
AquaticLife ] Very New Aquarium


Here is what I have:
55 gal tank
2  H.O.T. Magnum Bio-Pro 30 filtration systems, both have bio wheels on them
i have a lot of friends in my tank
2 silver dollars
9 neons
3 platties
2 mollies
4 guarami's
2 bumble bee gobies
several otto's
several cory's
2 angels
and 2 clown loches
would you say every week, or every other week?
all my aqua friends seem to be happy and healthy

dreammaker2623 <dreammaker2623@...> wrote:

The way I like to explain water changes to people (even kids) so
that everyone can understand is that an aquarium is like a house
with out a toilet. Since fishes cannot get out of the tank and go to
the bathroom they therefore have to use the tank to do their dirty
duty. The only way to get rid of this polution is to take out water
(with the polution in it) along with vacuming the gravel (to get rid
or other pollutions in the tank) and replace with fresh declorinated
water of about the same temp and pH. Naturally if you have only one
neon tetra in a 55 gallon tank you will not need to change water as
often as if you have a pair of 10 inch Jack Dempsies in a 20 gallon
tank. There are few pleople that would only have one small fish in a
rather large tank by itself but more would crowd fish into a smaller
tank. By doing smaller water changes frequently you run less chance
of changing the water  and therby lowering the resistnace to
diseases.



please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7593 From: Audrey Archer Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Huh?
> Frankly, it is a lot easier and less worrisome to
> cycle a tank without fish
> than to do it with fish, particularly if the fish
> you plan to keep are not
> suitable to the fish you wish to keep.
>
> \\Steve//>

I agree that it is "less worrisome", if you don't want to kill fish, but not
so sure about "a lot easier"; depends on the method you use. I did my first
tank that way, but didn't do a fishless cycle for my new one; I thought I
was going to have dead fish, but am finding that EcoComplete is amazingly
fast at cycling a tank - I filled up my new tank 12/10, husband brought home
three Convicts 12/11, and already I have no ammonia or nitrites anymore.
(Ammonia got up to 0.25 and nitrites got up to just a trace, last week.) I
am doing weekly water changes of about 10 - 15%, like I did my first tank.

But I am confused about the last part of the sentence... what do you mean?

>"particularly if the fish
> you plan to keep are not
> suitable to the fish you wish to keep."

Audrey
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7594 From: Ron F Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
You use apple vinegar not harmful to fish just mmake
sure you rinse well. Apple vinegar also leaves no
residue

Ron
--- Rob Robinson <zombie.god@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hi,
>
> What's the best way to remove Limescale from the
> edges of aquariums?
>
> I heard vinegar was a good way to remove it.
>
> Any ideas or comments appreciated,
> Rob.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7595 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    I don't think the goby will work in a fw tank.  Other than that, it should be ok.  Just start slowly with the female bettas and plants to cycle. 
 
Patrick N.
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
-------Original Message-------
Hello everyone, I am new to tropical fish (I have three male bettas,
that's it so far) and I am planning on getting a 24 gallon tank. I
have researched the fish I want and have made changes to my 'list',
I've researched cycling, water changes, cleaning tanks, algae and
disease problems and so on but I need some expert advice on whether I
will be overstocking the tank if I have:

10 neon tetras
6 zebra danios
3 albino corys
1 bumblebee goby and
3 female bettas

I also plan on having it planted with very hardy, easy to care for
plants.
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7596 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: Very New Aquarium
    I like to do my water changes randomly.  It keeps the fish guessing.  Sometimes I do a change ever week, then I might skip a week, then again the next week, then wait a week and 3 days, etc.  But I try not to go past 2 weeks.  The best way to do it would be to change the water every time nitrates get over 20, but that takes too much work.
 
Patrick N.
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
-------Original Message-------
Here is what I have:
 55 gal tank
2  H.O.T. Magnum Bio-Pro 30 filtration systems, both have bio wheels on them
i have a lot of friends in my tank
 2 silver dollars
9 neons
3 platties
2 mollies
4 guarami's
2 bumble bee gobies
several otto's
several cory's
2 angels
and 2 clown loches
 would you say every week, or every other week?
all my aqua friends seem to be happy and healthy
Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7597 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: Very New Aquarium
    The bb goby is a brackish water fish.  I don't think they do well for long in a fw tank. 
 
Patrick N.
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
-------Original Message-------
Here is what I have:
 55 gal tank
2  H.O.T. Magnum Bio-Pro 30 filtration systems, both have bio wheels on them
i have a lot of friends in my tank
 2 silver dollars
9 neons
3 platties
2 mollies
4 guarami's
2 bumble bee gobies
several otto's
several cory's
2 angels
and 2 clown loches
 would you say every week, or every other week?
all my aqua friends seem to be happy and healthy
Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7598 From: Ron F Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
The bumble bee gobys will do well they can survive in
fresh as well as brackish. I would suggest dropping
some iodine free (a pinch) to the tank weekly not only
will the bumble bee enjoy it but also helps ward off
ich.

Ron
--- "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
<americanfishguy@...> wrote:

> The bb goby is a brackish water fish. I don't
> think they do well for
> long in a fw tank.
>
> Patrick N.
>
> Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
> Cycle.
> Nitrogen Cycle
> About my tanks:
> 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
> -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
> skirt tetras, 2
> home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli
> cories, 1 pleco, one
> female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
> -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
> banana plants, java ferns,
> hornwort, and amazon swords.
> -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
> 30-60 power filter.
> 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
> -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
> -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
> amazon sword.
> -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
> gravel, Regent 10-15 power
> filter.
> -------Original Message-------
> Here is what I have:
> 55 gal tank
> 2 H.O.T. Magnum Bio-Pro 30 filtration systems, both
> have bio wheels on them
> i have a lot of friends in my tank
> 2 silver dollars
> 9 neons
> 3 platties
> 2 mollies
> 4 guarami's
> 2 bumble bee gobies
> several otto's
> several cory's
> 2 angels
> and 2 clown loches
> would you say every week, or every other week?
> all my aqua friends seem to be happy and healthy




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7599 From: paul helms Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
the bb gobies are easily stressed when in fresh water.
as long as theer are no agressive fish in the tank
they generally do well. a small amount of salt...like
tbsp per 5 gallons will help them as well.
paul
--- "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
<americanfishguy@...> wrote:

> The bb goby is a brackish water fish. I don't
> think they do well for
> long in a fw tank.
>
> Patrick N.
>
> Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
> Cycle.
> Nitrogen Cycle
> About my tanks:
> 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
> -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
> skirt tetras, 2
> home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli
> cories, 1 pleco, one
> female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
> -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
> banana plants, java ferns,
> hornwort, and amazon swords.
> -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
> 30-60 power filter.
> 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
> -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
> -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
> amazon sword.
> -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
> gravel, Regent 10-15 power
> filter.
> -------Original Message-------
> Here is what I have:
> 55 gal tank
> 2 H.O.T. Magnum Bio-Pro 30 filtration systems, both
> have bio wheels on them
> i have a lot of friends in my tank
> 2 silver dollars
> 9 neons
> 3 platties
> 2 mollies
> 4 guarami's
> 2 bumble bee gobies
> several otto's
> several cory's
> 2 angels
> and 2 clown loches
> would you say every week, or every other week?
> all my aqua friends seem to be happy and healthy




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7600 From: paul helms Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
i personally would not put the bb goby in with danios.
they can be a bit nippy and are very active which
will probably bother and stress the bb
--- Lyndsay <littlelasgirl@...> wrote:

>
> Hello everyone, I am new to tropical fish (I have
> three male bettas,
> that's it so far) and I am planning on getting a 24
> gallon tank. I
> have researched the fish I want and have made
> changes to my 'list',
> I've researched cycling, water changes, cleaning
> tanks, algae and
> disease problems and so on but I need some expert
> advice on whether I
> will be overstocking the tank if I have:
>
> 10 neon tetras
> 6 zebra danios
> 3 albino corys
> 1 bumblebee goby and
> 3 female bettas
>
> I also plan on having it planted with very hardy,
> easy to care for
> plants.
>
>
>
>




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7601 From: paul helms Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
that's the pole smart guy.....you specifically
mentioned south america... ever been there? that is
where the rain forests are.....i don't know what shape
your tanks are in, but for someone who insists that
water changes have to be done instead of proper
stocking, feeding and filtration, i really have to
wonder how you have been "in the industry" for so
long. i have not done a water change in 3 years, my
water is crystal clear, i lose about 1 fish a year, i
have not had ick in my tank in over 2 years, and have
never had any bacterial or other parasitic problems in
my tank. how do you explain that? i have a 7 gallon
nano reef, a 125 gallon reef, a 55 gallon fish only
tank, a 55 gallon fresh water tank, and a 35 gallon
fresh water tank. i am not saying by any means that
it is bad to do water changes, just that when over
done they can be detrimental by wiping out you bio
filters. if you read my previous posts i was talking
about water change sin excess of 25%.
--- dreammaker2623 <dreammaker2623@...> wrote:

>
> --- In
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul
> helms
> <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
> > well since you want to nit pick there
> buddy....south
> > of the equater does not have cold water by any
> > means....cichlids (excluding africans) which are
> from
> > south america need warmer water than any that i
> > mentioned. for your information no one told me
> that
> > they are cold water fish, they are all fish that
> do
> > fine without a heater and most of them are hardy
> > enough to live in ponds where i am from (sf ay
> area in
> > ca). i have 12 consecutive years in the hobby and
> 3
> > in the industry, and i don't need your snippy
> reply.
> > if you disagree it is one thing to say that you
> would
> > not consider them cold water fish, but it is quite
> > another to come off like you are more qualified
> than
> > anyone else to give advice.
>
>
>
>
> I guess that the South pole is in hot water then.
>
>
>
>




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7602 From: lois Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
wow, wait a minute, you haven't done a water change in 3 yrs????? just add water to it?
OK now i'm really confused!!!!!!

paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
that's the pole smart guy.....you specifically
mentioned south america... ever been there? that is
where the rain forests are.....i don't know what shape
your tanks are in, but for someone who insists that
water changes have to be done instead of proper
stocking, feeding and filtration, i really have to
wonder how you have been "in the industry" for so
long.  i have not done a water change in 3 years, my
water is crystal clear, i lose about 1 fish a year, i
have not had ick in my tank in over 2 years, and have
never had any bacterial or other parasitic problems in
my tank.  how do you explain that? i have a 7 gallon
nano reef, a 125 gallon reef, a 55 gallon fish only
tank, a 55 gallon fresh water tank, and a 35 gallon
fresh water tank.  i am not saying by any means that
it is bad to do water changes, just that when over
done they can be detrimental by wiping out you bio
filters.  if you read my previous posts i was talking
about water change sin excess of 25%.
--- dreammaker2623 <dreammaker2623@...> wrote:

>
> --- In
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul
> helms
> <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
> > well since you want to nit pick there
> buddy....south
> > of the equater does not have cold water by any
> > means....cichlids (excluding africans) which are
> from
> > south america need warmer water than any that i
> > mentioned.  for your information no one told me
> that
> > they are cold water fish, they are all fish that
> do
> > fine without a heater and most of them are hardy
> > enough to live in ponds where i am from (sf ay
> area in
> > ca).  i have 12 consecutive years in the hobby and
> 3
> > in the industry, and i don't need your snippy
> reply.
> > if you disagree it is one thing to say that you
> would
> > not consider them cold water fish, but it is quite
> > another to come off like you are more qualified
> than
> > anyone else to give advice.
>                                                    
>                
>                                                    
>                
> I guess that the South pole is in hot water then.
>
>
>
>



           
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7603 From: Ron F Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
IO would recommend every other week. But that is my
experience and opinion
--- lois <lonelybbwmi2000@...> wrote:

> Here is what I have:
> 55 gal tank
> 2 H.O.T. Magnum Bio-Pro 30 filtration systems, both
> have bio wheels on them
> i have a lot of friends in my tank
> 2 silver dollars
> 9 neons
> 3 platties
> 2 mollies
> 4 guarami's
> 2 bumble bee gobies
> several otto's
> several cory's
> 2 angels
> and 2 clown loches
> would you say every week, or every other week?
> all my aqua friends seem to be happy and healthy
>
> dreammaker2623 <dreammaker2623@...> wrote:
>
> The way I like to explain water changes to people
> (even kids) so
> that everyone can understand is that an aquarium is
> like a house
> with out a toilet. Since fishes cannot get out of
> the tank and go to
> the bathroom they therefore have to use the tank to
> do their dirty
> duty. The only way to get rid of this polution is to
> take out water
> (with the polution in it) along with vacuming the
> gravel (to get rid
> or other pollutions in the tank) and replace with
> fresh declorinated
> water of about the same temp and pH. Naturally if
> you have only one
> neon tetra in a 55 gallon tank you will not need to
> change water as
> often as if you have a pair of 10 inch Jack Dempsies
> in a 20 gallon
> tank. There are few pleople that would only have one
> small fish in a
> rather large tank by itself but more would crowd
> fish into a smaller
> tank. By doing smaller water changes frequently you
> run less chance
> of changing the water and therby lowering the
> resistnace to
> diseases.
>
>
>
>
>
> please delete this line and everything below it when
> replying, thanks
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>
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> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
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>
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7604 From: lois Date: 1/1/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
thats what I thought too, thanks

Ron F <aquaticdreamz@...> wrote:

IO would recommend every other week.  But that is my
experience and opinion
--- lois <lonelybbwmi2000@...> wrote:

> Here is what I have:
>  55 gal tank
> 2  H.O.T. Magnum Bio-Pro 30 filtration systems, both
> have bio wheels on them
> i have a lot of friends in my tank
>  2 silver dollars
> 9 neons
> 3 platties
> 2 mollies
> 4 guarami's
> 2 bumble bee gobies
> several otto's
> several cory's
> 2 angels
> and 2 clown loches
>  would you say every week, or every other week?
> all my aqua friends seem to be happy and healthy
>
> dreammaker2623 <dreammaker2623@...> wrote:
>
> The way I like to explain water changes to people
> (even kids) so
> that everyone can understand is that an aquarium is
> like a house
> with out a toilet. Since fishes cannot get out of
> the tank and go to
> the bathroom they therefore have to use the tank to
> do their dirty
> duty. The only way to get rid of this polution is to
> take out water
> (with the polution in it) along with vacuming the
> gravel (to get rid
> or other pollutions in the tank) and replace with
> fresh declorinated
> water of about the same temp and pH. Naturally if
> you have only one
> neon tetra in a 55 gallon tank you will not need to
> change water as
> often as if you have a pair of 10 inch Jack Dempsies
> in a 20 gallon
> tank. There are few pleople that would only have one
> small fish in a
> rather large tank by itself but more would crowd
> fish into a smaller
> tank. By doing smaller water changes frequently you
> run less chance
> of changing the water  and therby lowering the
> resistnace to
> diseases.
>
>
>
>
>
> please delete this line and everything below it when
> replying, thanks
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>    To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
>    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
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>  
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> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7605 From: Steve Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Audrey,

"But I am confused about the last part of the sentence... what do you mean?

>"particularly if the fish
> you plan to keep are not
> suitable to the fish you wish to keep.""

Meaning that if you use guppies to cycle the tank, and you plan to keep
larger carnivorous fish that think guppies make a nice snack, shortly you
will have no guppies left in the tank. While this may be no great loss to
some, it may be to others who would wish to keep the guppies until they pass
naturally, rather than as a snack.

\\Steve//
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7606 From: paul helms Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
lois,
Yes, that is the truth. While i am not saying that
water changes are not good, i am trying to make the
point that it is just as important to make sure that
the tank is properly filtered, not overstocked, and
not over fed. if your biologic filter is large enough
and you are not over feeding, your water chemistry
will eventually reach an equilibrium where it is not
necessary to change water except to keep mineral
levels up. i would not recommend this to people new
to keepng aquariums, i just really don't like it when
people try and make it sound like their way is the
only way to do thigs. everyone needs to find what
fits their situation and time best. i do not know who
this rob or ron guy is, butthe way he posts makes it
seem as if he thinks he has all of the answers. on
the other hand, Patrick also does a lot of water
changes...off schedule. I really respect Patrick, and
seem to agree with him on most topics. he has a lot
of sound advice to give, but also sees that other
peoples experiences are valid too. nothing is set in
stone. i too would recommend that you do water
changes, but when i recommend it i always say no more
than 20% and once a month. if you want to break it up
into 10% twice a month or 5% weekly, that is great
too. as your tank matures and gets healthy, in my
experience it requires less and less change. if you
have any questions about the way i do it, i would be
more than happy to share my experience with you. as i
said before, i have been keeping tanks for 12 years
and been working with fish, as well as ponds, turtle
tanks, and many mammals as well. i personally prefer
a fishless cycle, and doubling recommended filtration.
paul
--- lois <lonelybbwmi2000@...> wrote:

> wow, wait a minute, you haven't done a water change
> in 3 yrs????? just add water to it?
> OK now i'm really confused!!!!!!
>
> paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
> that's the pole smart guy.....you specifically
> mentioned south america... ever been there? that is
> where the rain forests are.....i don't know what
> shape
> your tanks are in, but for someone who insists that
> water changes have to be done instead of proper
> stocking, feeding and filtration, i really have to
> wonder how you have been "in the industry" for so
> long. i have not done a water change in 3 years, my
> water is crystal clear, i lose about 1 fish a year,
> i
> have not had ick in my tank in over 2 years, and
> have
> never had any bacterial or other parasitic problems
> in
> my tank. how do you explain that? i have a 7 gallon
> nano reef, a 125 gallon reef, a 55 gallon fish only
> tank, a 55 gallon fresh water tank, and a 35 gallon
> fresh water tank. i am not saying by any means that
> it is bad to do water changes, just that when over
> done they can be detrimental by wiping out you bio
> filters. if you read my previous posts i was
> talking
> about water change sin excess of 25%.
> --- dreammaker2623 <dreammaker2623@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > --- In
> > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
> paul
> > helms
> > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
> > > well since you want to nit pick there
> > buddy....south
> > > of the equater does not have cold water by any
> > > means....cichlids (excluding africans) which are
> > from
> > > south america need warmer water than any that i
> > > mentioned. for your information no one told me
> > that
> > > they are cold water fish, they are all fish that
> > do
> > > fine without a heater and most of them are hardy
> > > enough to live in ponds where i am from (sf ay
> > area in
> > > ca). i have 12 consecutive years in the hobby
> and
> > 3
> > > in the industry, and i don't need your snippy
> > reply.
> > > if you disagree it is one thing to say that you
> > would
> > > not consider them cold water fish, but it is
> quite
> > > another to come off like you are more qualified
> > than
> > > anyone else to give advice.
> >
>
> >
> >
>
> >
> > I guess that the South pole is in hot water then.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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>
>
> please delete this line and everything below it when
> replying, thanks
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
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>
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>
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7607 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    And what is overstocking?  Some people say 1 inch per gallon.  I call those people un-informed and ignorant.  Others say 3 inches per gallon.  I call those people living dangerously, but not too bad.  I say the wise person's answer is "It depends".
 
I don't think this discussion has gotten controversial enough yet. :) 
 
Patrick N.
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
-------Original Message-------
lois,
Yes, that is the truth.  While i am not saying that
water changes are not good, i am trying to make the
point that it is just as important to make sure that
the tank is properly filtered, not overstocked, and
not over fed.  if your biologic filter is large enough
and you are not over feeding, your water chemistry
will eventually reach an equilibrium where it is not
necessary to change water except to keep mineral
levels up.  i would not recommend this to people new
to keepng aquariums, i just really don't like it when
people try and make it sound like their way is the
only way to do thigs.  everyone needs to find what
fits their situation and time best.  i do not know who
this rob or ron guy is, butthe way he posts makes it
seem as if he thinks he has all of the answers.  on
the other hand, Patrick also does a lot of water
changes...off schedule.  I really respect Patrick, and
seem to agree with him on most topics.  he has a lot
of sound advice to give, but also sees that other
peoples experiences are valid too.  nothing is set in
stone.  i too would recommend that you do water
changes, but when i recommend it i always say no more
than 20% and once a month.  if you want to break it up
into 10% twice a month or 5% weekly, that is great
too.  as your tank matures and gets healthy, in my
experience it requires less and less change.  if you
have any questions about the way i do it, i would be
more than happy to share my experience with you.  as i
said before, i have been keeping tanks for 12 years
and been working with fish, as well as ponds, turtle
tanks, and many mammals as well.  i personally prefer
a fishless cycle, and doubling recommended filtration.
paul
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7608 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: Very New Aquarium
    If you know what you are doing, water changes can be removed from maintenance.  But for newer fish keepers like me, I say weekly water changes are important to prevent our mistakes from multiplying.  In a few more years, I may be able to do better... 
 
Patrick N.
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
-------Original Message-------
wow, wait a minute, you haven't done a water change in 3 yrs????? just add water to it?
OK now i'm really confused!!!!!!
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7609 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: Very New Aquarium
    Everything I have read says gobies are bw and will do poorly and die in fw.  It also says they are aggressive.  An interesting note that most of that information has is that fish stores usually tell people they are peaceful freshwater fish.
 
Patrick N.
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7610 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Cycling My New Tank
Happy new year, everyone.  Well, I'm on day 4 with my Black Skirt and Buenos Aires Tetras.  They appear to be doing well.  I tested for ammonia yesterday and today.  Today's test strip appeared even better than yesterday's, which was between "good" and "stress", or .25 and .5.  I am not feeding them much at all.  I'm making sure both eat, but only feeding once a day.  Is this right?  Am I starving them?  Most of what I'd read recommended to lightly feed the first few days or week.  I added some water, since the tank's water level had dropped some.  My fish store will test the water for free, so I'm taking a sample for expert advice tomorrow.  My plan is to hold off on more fish for another week or so and then add 2 or 3 zebra danios.  What do you think?
 
Thanks for all the advice, especially to those who did not absolutely predict the demise of Cosmo and Wanda (if you have children who watch Nickolodian you'll understand their names).
 
Angela in Richmond, VA
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7611 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: gobies
I've kept bumblebee gobies with dwarf puffers in FW for a very long time. The gobies have great color, are active, and there are no problems between them and the puffers.
----- Original Message -----

    Everything I have read says gobies are bw and will do poorly and die in fw.  It also says they are aggressive.  An interesting note that most of that information has is that fish stores usually tell people they are peaceful freshwater fish.

Group: AquaticLife Message: 7612 From: dreammaker2623 Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
I tell people that the one inch of fish per galon should have the
addition of take the inches (in length) times the heigth (in inches)
and then you will get a better idea of a stocking for you tanks. It
is a lot better for the fishes to be understocked than to be over
stocked. It also depends on how active the fish is and a few other
things as to the true safe stocking densities of your tanks but the
height times the length in inches will give you a better stocking
guide.


--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick, The
American Fish Guy" <americanfishguy@h...> wrote:
> And what is overstocking? Some people say 1 inch per gallon.
I call
> those people un-informed and ignorant. Others say 3 inches per
gallon. I
> call those people living dangerously, but not too bad. I say the
wise
> person's answer is "It depends".
>
> I don't think this discussion has gotten controversial enough
yet. :)
>
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7613 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: group name soon to be AquaticLife ] Cycling
sounds like you are cycling your tank correctly to me.  Black Skirts and Buenos Aires are hardy fish. I do believe these where my first fish, I got them to cycle my tank, but they looked so good and where so active, I kept them for over 4 years until I had a fish food problem. Kids love feeding fish without supervision :-(
 
keep an eye on your water and add more fish slowly you should do great
 
robert
NE Indiana
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 1/2/2005 3:25:06 PM US Eastern Standard Time, angelasjenkins@... writes:
Happy new year, everyone.  Well, I'm on day 4 with my Black Skirt and Buenos Aires Tetras.  They appear to be doing well.  I tested for ammonia yesterday and today.  Today's test strip appeared even better than yesterday's, which was between "good" and "stress", or .25 and .5.  I am not feeding them much at all.  I'm making sure both eat, but only feeding once a day.  Is this right?  Am I starving them?  Most of what I'd read recommended to lightly feed the first few days or week.  I added some water, since the tank's water level had dropped some.  My fish store will test the water for free, so I'm taking a sample for expert advice tomorrow.  My plan is to hold off on more fish for another week or so and then add 2 or 3 zebra danios.  What do you think?
 
Thanks for all the advice, especially to those who did not absolutely predict the demise of Cosmo and Wanda (if you have children who watch Nickolodian you'll understand their names).
 
Angela in Richmond, VA
 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7614 From: ndrew_x Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Filter
Hi, I'm new to this group, and I hope to be of help to others here.

Right now I've got a tropical freshwater planted tank. I keep several
neon tetras, pencil fishes, a siamese algae eater, an octoniculus
(spelt correctly? ), 2 bumbleebee goby, 5 rummy nose tetra and several
yamato, cherry, malayan and bee shrimps.
Lately I've been comtemplating if I should switch to a Fluval 204
external filter. But I wouldn't mind using the Fluval internal filter.
I was wondering if an external filter would be an overkill, especially
when my tank is only 2 feet (abt 70L).
Also, I need advice from members who keep shrimps. I think I saw a
cluster of eggs in the tank, and I suspect that it belongs to my
cherry sheimps. Has anyone bred it before? Thanks.

Rgds,
Drew.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7615 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: gobies
    I think I found the problem.  There are two goby species called bumble bee.  Maybe one is the aggressive bw fish and one is a less aggressive fw/bw fish? 
 
Patrick N.
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
-------Original Message-------
I've kept bumblebee gobies with dwarf puffers in FW for a very long time. The gobies have great color, are active, and there are no problems between them and the puffers.
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7616 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Group name changing when?
It's getting old.  We were told it would happen by now! :)
 
Patrick N., who never claimed to be patient.
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7617 From: lois Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
my bb fish are cool, not aggressive at all, love the little guys

"Patrick, The American Fish Guy" <americanfishguy@...> wrote:
    I think I found the problem.  There are two goby species called bumble bee.  Maybe one is the aggressive bw fish and one is a less aggressive fw/bw fish? 
 
Patrick N.
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
-------Original Message-------
I've kept bumblebee gobies with dwarf puffers in FW for a very long time. The gobies have great color, are active, and there are no problems between them and the puffers.
Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7618 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Rain Forest Question
Hi Guys,

After talking with several people I recently purchased a 75 gallon tank and want to create a rain forest themed tank.  Some individuals seemingly qualified in this area mentioned that I also consider placing some salamanders and frogs in the tank.  However they failed to mention specific species that might adapt and place minimum risk to the fish, what are other people's experiences on this subject?

Ken
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7619 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: Rain Forest Question
"Some individuals seemingly qualified in this area mentioned that I also consider placing some salamanders and frogs in the tank."
    They would probably eat the fish. 
 
Patrick N.
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7620 From: harry perry Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Name change info deleted. A test


"Patrick, The American Fish Guy" <americanfishguy@...> wrote:
"Some individuals seemingly qualified in this area mentioned that I also consider placing some salamanders and frogs in the tank."
    They would probably eat the fish. 
 
Patrick N.
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7621 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    I've been trying that all night.  It is going to take the manager to change the name.
 
Patrick
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7622 From: harry perry Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
The owner has to change the tag line. I am a moderator but I can't change it.
 
Harry
 
"Patrick, The American Fish Guy" <americanfishguy@...> wrote:
    I've been trying that all night.  It is going to take the manager to change the name.
 
Patrick
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7623 From: Steve Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Patrick,

Actually, there are 4 species listed with the common name of bumblebee goby.
_Brachygobius sua_, _B. nunus_, _B. kabiliensis_, and _B. aggregatus_. All
are found in brackish to freshwater. I would suspect that a variation in the
salinity of your tank would make these fellows, which ever they may be, very
happy campers.

\\Steve//

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy [mailto:americanfishguy@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 5:46 PM
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
AquaticLife ] Re: gobies


I think I found the problem. There are two goby species called bumble
bee. Maybe one is the aggressive bw fish and one is a less aggressive fw/bw
fish?

Patrick N.

-------Original Message-------
I've kept bumblebee gobies with dwarf puffers in FW for a very long time.
The gobies have great color, are active, and there are no problems between
them and the puffers.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7624 From: Steve Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
I don't know about the salamanders, but you would probably be looking at
poison arrow frogs for the frogs you wish to include.

\\Steve//

-----Original Message-----
From: Iksnip@... [mailto:Iksnip@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 6:33 PM
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
AquaticLife ] Rain Forest Question


Hi Guys,

After talking with several people I recently purchased a 75 gallon tank and
want to create a rain forest themed tank. Some individuals seemingly
qualified in this area mentioned that I also consider placing some
salamanders and frogs in the tank. However they failed to mention specific
species that might adapt and place minimum risk to the fish, what are other
people's experiences on this subject?

Ken
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7625 From: harry perry Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
A fascinating idea, a rain forest. I would start with some research on what everbody eats, to make sure they are not eating each other.
 
Harry

Steve <steve@...> wrote:
I don't know about the salamanders, but you would probably be looking at
poison arrow frogs for the frogs you wish to include.

\\Steve//

-----Original Message-----
From: Iksnip@... [mailto:Iksnip@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 6:33 PM
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
AquaticLife ] Rain Forest Question


Hi Guys,

After talking with several people I recently purchased a 75 gallon tank and
want to create a rain forest themed tank.  Some individuals seemingly
qualified in this area mentioned that I also consider placing some
salamanders and frogs in the tank.  However they failed to mention specific
species that might adapt and place minimum risk to the fish, what are other
people's experiences on this subject?

Ken




please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7626 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: frogs
I don't know about salamanders but African dwarf frogs are a good aquarium choice.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Iksnip@...

After talking with several people I recently purchased a 75 gallon tank and want to create a rain forest themed tank.  Some individuals seemingly qualified in this area mentioned that I also consider placing some salamanders and frogs in the tank.  However they failed to mention specific species that might adapt and place minimum risk to the fish, what are other people's experiences on this subject?


Group: AquaticLife Message: 7627 From: harry perry Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Picture this!!!! A miniature waterfall adding moisture to the plants etc.Plants growing out of the water and blooming. An entire eco system in a 75 gal. tank. This is exciting especially since it's not my money.
 
Harry

Dan & Theresa <dtmergl@...> wrote:
I don't know about salamanders but African dwarf frogs are a good aquarium choice.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Iksnip@...

After talking with several people I recently purchased a 75 gallon tank and want to create a rain forest themed tank.  Some individuals seemingly qualified in this area mentioned that I also consider placing some salamanders and frogs in the tank.  However they failed to mention specific species that might adapt and place minimum risk to the fish, what are other people's experiences on this subject?




please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7628 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Agreed; regarding lighting (and I know this will depend on the various plant and animal life) but can anyone tell me if there is lighting that can bring the color richness out similar to what you see in a salt water tank?

thanks

Ken
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7629 From: harry perry Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Just use the same lights. Or a combination of lighting that will benifit all.
 
Harry

Iksnip@... wrote:
Agreed; regarding lighting (and I know this will depend on the various plant and animal life) but can anyone tell me if there is lighting that can bring the color richness out similar to what you see in a salt water tank?

thanks

Ken


please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7630 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
very good i have 6 and love each one.. and suprisenly hardy if you get them older.. as i had some younger one which were cute but didn't survive even a big water change... they all have like personalities i have a mag float and one of mine sit on top of it it is so cute.. also they float up to the top and just hover very cute.. shannon
I don't know about salamanders but African dwarf frogs are a good aquarium choice.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7631 From: lois Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Lucky you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bet it turns out nice


harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:
Picture this!!!! A miniature waterfall adding moisture to the plants etc.Plants growing out of the water and blooming. An entire eco system in a 75 gal. tank. This is exciting especially since it's not my money.
 
Harry

Dan & Theresa <dtmergl@...> wrote:
I don't know about salamanders but African dwarf frogs are a good aquarium choice.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Iksnip@...

After talking with several people I recently purchased a 75 gallon tank and want to create a rain forest themed tank.  Some individuals seemingly qualified in this area mentioned that I also consider placing some salamanders and frogs in the tank.  However they failed to mention specific species that might adapt and place minimum risk to the fish, what are other people's experiences on this subject?




please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7632 From: paul helms Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
actinic bulbs with white bulbs, or you can use 50/50
bulbs...available in t8, t5, vho, cf
--- Iksnip@... wrote:

> Agreed; regarding lighting (and I know this will
> depend on the various plant
> and animal life) but can anyone tell me if there is
> lighting that can bring
> the color richness out similar to what you see in a
> salt water tank?
>
> thanks
>
> Ken
>




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7633 From: paul helms Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
if you have cats, you may want to skip the salamanders
as they are toxic, actually fatal to cats
--- Iksnip@... wrote:

> Hi Guys,
>
> After talking with several people I recently
> purchased a 75 gallon tank and
> want to create a rain forest themed tank. Some
> individuals seemingly qualified
> in this area mentioned that I also consider placing
> some salamanders and
> frogs in the tank. However they failed to mention
> specific species that might
> adapt and place minimum risk to the fish, what are
> other people's experiences on
> this subject?
>
> Ken
>




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7634 From: paul helms Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
it does depend on the quality of filtration and the
stability of the tanks eco system itself. the 1 inch
per gallon is a generic recommendation which serves
its purpose. it all depends on the agression,
activity, and requirements of specific species
--- "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
<americanfishguy@...> wrote:

> And what is overstocking? Some people say 1
> inch per gallon. I call
> those people un-informed and ignorant. Others say 3
> inches per gallon. I
> call those people living dangerously, but not too
> bad. I say the wise
> person's answer is "It depends".
>
> I don't think this discussion has gotten
> controversial enough yet. :)
>
> Patrick N.
>
> Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
> Cycle.
> Nitrogen Cycle
> About my tanks:
> 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
> -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
> skirt tetras, 2
> home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli
> cories, 1 pleco, one
> female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
> -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
> banana plants, java ferns,
> hornwort, and amazon swords.
> -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
> 30-60 power filter.
> 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
> -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
> -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
> amazon sword.
> -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
> gravel, Regent 10-15 power
> filter.
> -------Original Message-------
> lois,
> Yes, that is the truth. While i am not saying that
> water changes are not good, i am trying to make the
> point that it is just as important to make sure that
> the tank is properly filtered, not overstocked, and
> not over fed. if your biologic filter is large
> enough
> and you are not over feeding, your water chemistry
> will eventually reach an equilibrium where it is not
> necessary to change water except to keep mineral
> levels up. i would not recommend this to people new
> to keepng aquariums, i just really don't like it
> when
> people try and make it sound like their way is the
> only way to do thigs. everyone needs to find what
> fits their situation and time best. i do not know
> who
> this rob or ron guy is, butthe way he posts makes it
> seem as if he thinks he has all of the answers. on
> the other hand, Patrick also does a lot of water
> changes...off schedule. I really respect Patrick,
> and
> seem to agree with him on most topics. he has a lot
> of sound advice to give, but also sees that other
> peoples experiences are valid too. nothing is set
> in
> stone. i too would recommend that you do water
> changes, but when i recommend it i always say no
> more
> than 20% and once a month. if you want to break it
> up
> into 10% twice a month or 5% weekly, that is great
> too. as your tank matures and gets healthy, in my
> experience it requires less and less change. if you
> have any questions about the way i do it, i would be
> more than happy to share my experience with you. as
> i
> said before, i have been keeping tanks for 12 years
> and been working with fish, as well as ponds, turtle
> tanks, and many mammals as well. i personally
> prefer
> a fishless cycle, and doubling recommended
> filtration.
> paul




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7635 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
 
It sounds like a great Idea.
 
the only place off hand I can think of
 
rob
NE Indiana
 
In a message dated 1/2/2005 9:29:17 PM US Eastern Standard Time, lonelybbwmi2000@... writes:
After talking with several people I recently purchased a 75 gallon tank and want to create a rain forest themed tank.  Some individuals seemingly qualified in this area mentioned that I also consider placing some salamanders and frogs in the tank.  However they failed to mention specific species that might adapt and place minimum risk to the fish, what are other people's experiences on this subject
 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7636 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
its what i am working on though it will be a little while since my knowledge is limited and i am now reading my first book

Ken
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7637 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
well since I have 2 cats, the sali's are out, thanks for the advice there :)

Ken
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7638 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Well, that is the answer I was looking for.  A fancy way of saying "it depends". :) 
 
Patrick N.
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
-------Original Message-------
it does depend on the quality of filtration and the
stability of the tanks eco system itself.  the 1 inch
per gallon is a generic recommendation which serves
its purpose. it all depends on the agression,
activity, and requirements of specific species
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7639 From: paul helms Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
lol
anytime pat
--- "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
<americanfishguy@...> wrote:

> Well, that is the answer I was looking for. A fancy
> way of saying "it
> depends". :)
>
> Patrick N.
>
> Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
> Cycle.
> Nitrogen Cycle
> About my tanks:
> 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
> -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
> skirt tetras, 2
> home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli
> cories, 1 pleco, one
> female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
> -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
> banana plants, java ferns,
> hornwort, and amazon swords.
> -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
> 30-60 power filter.
> 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
> -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
> -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
> amazon sword.
> -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
> gravel, Regent 10-15 power
> filter.
> -------Original Message-------
> it does depend on the quality of filtration and the
> stability of the tanks eco system itself. the 1
> inch
> per gallon is a generic recommendation which serves
> its purpose. it all depends on the agression,
> activity, and requirements of specific species




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7640 From: paul helms Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
np ken
--- Iksnip@... wrote:

> well since I have 2 cats, the sali's are out, thanks
> for the advice there :)
>
> Ken
>




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7641 From: Ron Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: Very New Aquarium
You have to understand that teh majority of people working in fish
stores or these big chain pet shops (PetCo, PetSmart) Have no formal
training or experience to be giving advice. I had to train all my
employees the short time I managed a fish Department at both these
establishments. I have also experienced the people in the Mom and
Pop shops not knowing anything they are talking about. It is like
anything else you can have book smarts but no experience in the
field and you are still an amature. (Not saying you are an Amature
Pat).

Ron Owner Aquaticdreamz Aquarium Trading, selling, giving away for
free Yahoo Group
-- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick, The
American Fish Guy" <americanfishguy@h...> wrote:
> Everything I have read says gobies are bw and will do poorly
and die in
> fw. It also says they are aggressive. An interesting note that
most of
> that information has is that fish stores usually tell people they
are
> peaceful freshwater fish.
>
> Patrick N.
>
> Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
> Nitrogen Cycle
> About my tanks:
> 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
> -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2
> home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco,
one
> female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
> -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants,
java ferns,
> hornwort, and amazon swords.
> -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power
filter.
> 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
> -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
> -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
> -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-
15 power filter.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7642 From: paul helms Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
you may want to get some amazon sword plants...they
will grow in and out of water and can reproduce
through flowers, splitting, or replicating
--- Iksnip@... wrote:

> its what i am working on though it will be a little
> while since my knowledge
> is limited and i am now reading my first book
>
> Ken
>




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7643 From: Audrey Archer Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Re: KIDS
> Kids love feeding fish without
> supervision :-(

Tell me about it! I was babysitting an extra 3 year old Saturday, along with two of my grands, and although my grands know better (age 4 & 6), the three year old decided to "feed" my Endler's.

Fortunately, what she decided to feed them was actually activated charcoal, most of which ended up all over the floor, because she wasn't really tall enough to get her pudgy little fingers over the tank.

Do they make child-proof "locks" for fish tanks, like they do for cabinets?

Audrey
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7644 From: ndrew_x Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Shrimps
Hi,
Does anyone here rear shrimps? Cherry shrimps to be specific?

Thanks,
Drew
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7645 From: Scott Tucker Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Blue
Does anyone have any information on the following?
 
Blue Mystery Snail
I remember seeing one in a magazine years ago, but have been unable to find any information on it since then. I know absolutely nothing about it, not even if it is a salt-water or fresh-water snail.
 
Blue Lobster
I saw this one once in a pet store, but like the snail mentioned above, know nothing else about it.
 
Any and all information about the above two species will be greatly appreciated... especially what kind of species of fish will co-habitate peacefully.
 
Thanks in advance!
 
Scott
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7646 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: San Francisco Aquarium Society , 1/7/2005, 7:30 pm
Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
San Francisco Aquarium Society

Friday January 7, 2005
7:30 pm - 9:30 pm
This event repeats on the first Friday of every month.

Event Location: first Friday of each month at The Academy of Sciences in San Francisco's Golden Gate Park.
Notes:
http://www.sfaquarium.org/about.html

We meet the first Friday of each month at The Academy of Sciences in San Francisco's Golden Gate Park.

Founded in 1923, the San Francisco Aquarium Society is regarded as one of the nation's esteemed aquarium hobbyist organizations.

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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7647 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: new 90g
It looks like I'll be getting a 90g in the near future. This will be the largest tank I've ever had and I probably won't be buying everything at once.

These are the fish I'm interested in keeping:

oscar
JD
severum
geophagus jurupari
clown loach

First, will this combination work? Only one oscar, but how many of the others? Are there any schooling fish I could have without fear of them being eaten? The fish will be young/small when purchased; what is the best order to add them to the tank?

How are tanks with larger cichlids aquascaped...best substrate, rocks, wood, fake plants?

I assume I will need two filters, any recommendations on brands? Two heaters as well?

Any other info, suggestions, or ideas would be appreciated as well

Group: AquaticLife Message: 7648 From: Ron F Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Be carefull in that combination of fish. Oscars are
not normally aggressive just constantly hungry.
Severums are highly aggressive. I would suggest
setting up a mainly rock aquascape. Make sure you
build it up so that everyone has their own domain.

Ron
--- Dan & Theresa <dtmergl@...> wrote:

> It looks like I'll be getting a 90g in the near
> future. This will be the largest tank I've ever had
> and I probably won't be buying everything at once.
>
> These are the fish I'm interested in keeping:
>
> oscar
> JD
> severum
> geophagus jurupari
> clown loach
>
> First, will this combination work? Only one oscar,
> but how many of the others? Are there any schooling
> fish I could have without fear of them being eaten?
> The fish will be young/small when purchased; what is
> the best order to add them to the tank?
>
> How are tanks with larger cichlids aquascaped...best
> substrate, rocks, wood, fake plants?
>
> I assume I will need two filters, any
> recommendations on brands? Two heaters as well?
>
> Any other info, suggestions, or ideas would be
> appreciated as well
>




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7649 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
might want to check out the African Cichlids for the 90 Gallon also.   More colorful - like/need to be crowded - more options - truly great fish.
 
I've got a 100 gal I just set up with the africans - AWESOME FISH BABY!!!
 
Al
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7650 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
In a message dated 1/3/2005 7:28:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, dtmergl@... writes:
oscar
JD
severum
geophagus jurupari
clown loach
I think most of these would quickly outgrow the clown loach and make a snack of it.  Oscars can grow real big in a short time.  Unless you were to buy a larger mature clown loach, and then they need to be or should be in groups of five or more.
My 2 cents.
Mike
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7651 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Hello, I have 4 salamanders between 9-12 inches and they are on
potting soil and everytime they get into the water it tracks all the
mud. (they love to soak) Just something to keep in mind, depending on
what type of substrate you plan on using.


> Hi Guys,
>
> After talking with several people I recently purchased a 75 gallon
tank and
> want to create a rain forest themed tank. Some individuals seemingly
> qualified in this area mentioned that I also consider placing some
> salamanders and frogs in the tank. However they failed to mention
specific
> species that might adapt and place minimum risk to the fish, what
are other
> people's experiences on this subject?
>
> Ken
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7652 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Re: Rain Forest Question
I agree my salamanders loved rosyreds while still in there larval
stage but now as adults I haven't feed them any fish.

They would probably eat the fish.


> "Some individuals seemingly qualified in this area mentioned that I also
> consider placing some salamanders and frogs in the tank."
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7653 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
I have 2 cats aswell but the tank has a locking lid and stands about 4
1/2 feet high (well it and the stand together). And you talked about
frogs with out a lid they might climb some plants and take a jump out.


> well since I have 2 cats, the sali's are out, thanks for the advice
there :)
>
> Ken
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7654 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
From what I know about the Oscar, I would say leave that out, or make it an Oscar-only tank.  I think it would be best to stick with a group of several smaller species of Americans or Africans. 
 
Patrick, the American Fish Guy
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
-------Original Message-------
Be carefull in that combination of fish.  Oscars are
not normally aggressive just constantly hungry.
Severums are highly aggressive.  I would suggest
setting up a mainly rock aquascape.  Make sure you
build it up so that everyone has their own domain.

Ron
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7655 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: 3 of 4 of my oto died within hours
I am devasted I got today 4 Otto's brought them home along with a panda cory. Yippee I found one lol so anyhow I had them in the tank but a few hours and 3 of the 4 are dead I am so upset what happened. I don know... should I even try for more there is one alive and eating.. Shannon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7656 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Blue Snails and Lobsters
For the Blue Mystery snail check out The Apple Snail (Ampullariidae) Website
 they have a lot of info on Apple snails (Apple snails and mystery snails are related)
 
Blue Lobsters check out
 
 
In a message dated 1/3/2005 8:04:35 PM US Eastern Standard Time, wintercoast@... writes:
Does anyone have any information on the following?
 
Blue Mystery Snail
I remember seeing one in a magazine years ago, but have been unable to find any information on it since then. I know absolutely nothing about it, not even if it is a salt-water or fresh-water snail.
 
Blue Lobster
I saw this one once in a pet store, but like the snail mentioned above, know nothing else about it.
 
Any and all information about the above two species will be greatly appreciated... especially what kind of species of fish will co-habitate peacefully.
 
Thanks in advance!
 
Scott
 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7657 From: Faye & Erin Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: moores are dying
Hi everyone
I am from New Zealand and am new to keeping goldfish.

I wonder if someone can give me some help.

I have several tubs of goldfish and all seem ok except my black and
red moores that are in separate area's.

Anyway they all appear to be doing similar things, swimming
erratically from the bottom to the top of the surface and taking a
few gulps then falling back down, one little guy is swimming on his
side and upside down etc.

They also appear after a day to have a few scales missing. There is
no sign of white spots of fin damage, ulcers etc. One I just found
at the bottom of the tank twitching, he did not die after two days
so I "put him down" as he appeared like he had a stroke, and his
tail etc would not move properly but only twitched, and he moved
only slightly around. All tanks are aerated.

The PH of our bore water is 7.5 and there was only slight amonia
showing in one tank but no nitrate.

Some things I wonder about is:

I have been doing some water changes by bucketing out the water and
gently refilling with the hose, should I maybe using a syphon and
not the bucket as maybe this scares or stresses them.

I have been putting salt in the tanks as someone said this keeps
parasites etc down, I use aquarium salt, could I have put in too
much too quickly and caused some sort of shock.

Finally someone also told me to use melgafix for the scales missing
to prevent any ulcers etc happening, I only used a little but is
this no good for Moores.

Are Moores more susecptible to stress, water changes etc as my other
goldfish all seem fine and I do the same things for them.

See ya Faye
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7658 From: Chris Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Artificial coral distribution
The guy that owns the local fish store, informed me today that his
supplier of artificial coral, is no longer doing business in
California. I ended up buying the last 2 pieces he had. Has anyone
heard of this, and do you know why they quite distributing artificial
coral in California.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7659 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
---Good luck on the 90g; that's a nice size tank to work with -- you will need two heaters, each rated for half (50g max) that tank size.  That way if one heater sticks, it won't overheat the tank.                                                                                        ---Probably best to add any other fish you are thinking of having, first.  Also, keep in mind that all fish do not grow at the same rate.  Clown loaches are slow growers, for instance, so you might want to get them a little larger to begin with.                          ---Your selection seems interesting, but I think the JD may overpower the Jurapari, come eating time.  You could replace the Jurapari with a Chocolate Cichlid (H. temporalis) or Port Cichlid (C. portalegrensis), or replace the JD with one of the following -- Blue Acara (Aequidens latifrons), A. tetramerus, "Geophagus" brasiliensis or Acarichthys heckelii (old name - Geophagus thayeri).  For their size, Oscars don't get all that belligerent, although I would either add him last or get him smaller than the rest as they will eventually get larger than most.                              ---For schooling companion fish,  you might consider Clown Barbs which get to 5", Giant Danios which get to 4" or any of the Silver Dollar group of the genus' Metynnis, Myleus or Mylossoma, many of which are quite attractive (and grow large enough not to be eaten).                                                                                                         ---As far as two of any of the Cichlid species you mention, there is always the chance that they may pair off, creating problems of territoriality and aggressiveness, so I'd stay away from that scene if you want a more peaceful tank.  Ray
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7660 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Reputable Dealer in Chicago?
Hi Guys,

is anyone local to the chicago area that can recommend a reputable and knowledgable dealer. I am finally starting after my licensing exam on January 20th and I want to develop a relationhsip with a store I trust

any thoughts

Ken
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7661 From: paul helms Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
the blue will eat anythign it can catch
--- Scott Tucker <wintercoast@...> wrote:

> Does anyone have any information on the following?
>
> Blue Mystery Snail
> I remember seeing one in a magazine years ago, but
> have been unable to find any information on it since
> then. I know absolutely nothing about it, not even
> if it is a salt-water or fresh-water snail.
>
> Blue Lobster
> I saw this one once in a pet store, but like the
> snail mentioned above, know nothing else about it.
>
> Any and all information about the above two species
> will be greatly appreciated... especially what kind
> of species of fish will co-habitate peacefully.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Scott




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7662 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    If you are sure they are dead, find as many bodies as you can and take them for replacements.  Paul, skip the next sentence. :)  Most (not all, which is why Paul should not be reading this sentence) good fish stores will replace lost fish if you bring them back within one day, especially cheaper fish like ottos.  Ottos are very strange.  About 1/3 will die within a month of going into a new tank.  The good news is that those that make it past a month do well.  The bad news is that if you get a bunch of one thriders you will have more losses than normal.
 
Patrick, the American Fish Guy
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
-------Original Message-------
I am devasted I got today 4 Otto's brought them home along with a panda cory. Yippee I found one lol so anyhow I had them in the tank but a few hours and 3 of the 4 are dead I am so upset what happened. I don know... should I even try for more there is one alive and eating.. Shannon
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7663 From: paul helms Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
0 nitrate with goldfish? either the tank is brand new,
or your test kit is bad...what you are describing
sounds like nitrate poisoning, as for missing scales,
the other fish will nip at them
--- Faye & Erin <qualroof@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hi everyone
> I am from New Zealand and am new to keeping
> goldfish.
>
> I wonder if someone can give me some help.
>
> I have several tubs of goldfish and all seem ok
> except my black and
> red moores that are in separate area's.
>
> Anyway they all appear to be doing similar things,
> swimming
> erratically from the bottom to the top of the
> surface and taking a
> few gulps then falling back down, one little guy is
> swimming on his
> side and upside down etc.
>
> They also appear after a day to have a few scales
> missing. There is
> no sign of white spots of fin damage, ulcers etc.
> One I just found
> at the bottom of the tank twitching, he did not die
> after two days
> so I "put him down" as he appeared like he had a
> stroke, and his
> tail etc would not move properly but only twitched,
> and he moved
> only slightly around. All tanks are aerated.
>
> The PH of our bore water is 7.5 and there was only
> slight amonia
> showing in one tank but no nitrate.
>
> Some things I wonder about is:
>
> I have been doing some water changes by bucketing
> out the water and
> gently refilling with the hose, should I maybe using
> a syphon and
> not the bucket as maybe this scares or stresses
> them.
>
> I have been putting salt in the tanks as someone
> said this keeps
> parasites etc down, I use aquarium salt, could I
> have put in too
> much too quickly and caused some sort of shock.
>
> Finally someone also told me to use melgafix for the
> scales missing
> to prevent any ulcers etc happening, I only used a
> little but is
> this no good for Moores.
>
> Are Moores more susecptible to stress, water changes
> etc as my other
> goldfish all seem fine and I do the same things for
> them.
>
> See ya Faye
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7664 From: wagtail65 Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: FYI: Livebearer Event
Hi, folks. My name is Ted Coletti. I write the monthly "Livebearers
Unlimited" column for Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine and have been
an aquarium hobbyist for over 20 years. I just joined the group.

Is anyone going to this year's American Livebearer Association (ALA)
Convention APril 8-10 in Indianapolis? I will be there if anyone
wants to say hello. It's open to the public, and people will be
selling, trading and auctioning more livebearers than you've ever
seen in Aquabid or any other place. Lots of guest speakers and a fish
show too. Should be a great hobby event. The ALA is non-profit
organization, BTW, and also provides conservationand research grants
(albeit small ones). You can get more information at
www.livebearers.org.

Feel free to ask any questions if you're interested.

Ted
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7665 From: ben_noreau Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Disappearing Tetra
Hello,

I am new to the group with a newly established 29 gallon tank. I
tried to get as much information as I could BEFORE things were put
into place to ensure the safety of the fish. The tank was set up
12/23/04 and he fish were added on 12/29/04 and 12/30/04 currently have:
- 2 Neon Tetras
- 2 Serpae Tetras
- 2 Glowlight Tetras
- 2 Headligh Tail Light Tetras

-2 female sword tail
-2 Male Guppies
-1 lyre tail molly
-1 albino catfish

The problem that I have is that one of the neon tetras has gone
missing. When I went to be last night at 11:30 pm everything was
fine. When I got up and fed the fish this morning at 7:30 am the neon
was gone and has not reappeared. (I feed the fish once a day) There
is no external cause for the fishes disappearance and all the other
fish are well and everything is otherwise normal in the tank.

Being that the fish is gone what I am specualting is that the
neon died nad was eaten by the catfish. Is this possible? Everything
is as it should be as far as the condition of the tank and fish is
concerned. I dont know what is going on any info would be aprreciated.

Ben
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7666 From: joequality1980 Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: Disappearing Tetra
probably the other fish quickly had a funeral service for the neon
(funeral service meaning free lunch), and any remains are hidden
somewhere in the tank. Try looking under rocks and in between plants.

Or maybe the neon had a real wild time last night and shacked up
with a cardinal tetra down the street

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "ben_noreau"
<ben_noreau@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I am new to the group with a newly established 29 gallon
tank. I
> tried to get as much information as I could BEFORE things were put
> into place to ensure the safety of the fish. The tank was set up
> 12/23/04 and he fish were added on 12/29/04 and 12/30/04 currently
have:
> - 2 Neon Tetras
> - 2 Serpae Tetras
> - 2 Glowlight Tetras
> - 2 Headligh Tail Light Tetras
>
> -2 female sword tail
> -2 Male Guppies
> -1 lyre tail molly
> -1 albino catfish
>
> The problem that I have is that one of the neon tetras has
gone
> missing. When I went to be last night at 11:30 pm everything was
> fine. When I got up and fed the fish this morning at 7:30 am the
neon
> was gone and has not reappeared. (I feed the fish once a day)
There
> is no external cause for the fishes disappearance and all the other
> fish are well and everything is otherwise normal in the tank.
>
> Being that the fish is gone what I am specualting is that the
> neon died nad was eaten by the catfish. Is this possible?
Everything
> is as it should be as far as the condition of the tank and fish is
> concerned. I dont know what is going on any info would be
aprreciated.
>
> Ben
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7667 From: Ben Noreau Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
hahahah,

*grinz* that is what i kinda figured. Im going
to Walmart in the am to get at least 1 more for the
sake of the surviving neon. Thanks for the help.

Ben
--- joequality1980 <crazy.joe.walcek@...> wrote:

>
> probably the other fish quickly had a funeral
> service for the neon
> (funeral service meaning free lunch), and any
> remains are hidden
> somewhere in the tank. Try looking under rocks and
> in between plants.
>
> Or maybe the neon had a real wild time last night
> and shacked up
> with a cardinal tetra down the street
>
> --- In
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
> "ben_noreau"
> <ben_noreau@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am new to the group with a newly
> established 29 gallon
> tank. I
> > tried to get as much information as I could BEFORE
> things were put
> > into place to ensure the safety of the fish. The
> tank was set up
> > 12/23/04 and he fish were added on 12/29/04 and
> 12/30/04 currently
> have:
> > - 2 Neon Tetras
> > - 2 Serpae Tetras
> > - 2 Glowlight Tetras
> > - 2 Headligh Tail Light Tetras
> >
> > -2 female sword tail
> > -2 Male Guppies
> > -1 lyre tail molly
> > -1 albino catfish
> >
> > The problem that I have is that one of the
> neon tetras has
> gone
> > missing. When I went to be last night at 11:30 pm
> everything was
> > fine. When I got up and fed the fish this morning
> at 7:30 am the
> neon
> > was gone and has not reappeared. (I feed the fish
> once a day)
> There
> > is no external cause for the fishes disappearance
> and all the other
> > fish are well and everything is otherwise normal
> in the tank.
> >
> > Being that the fish is gone what I am
> specualting is that the
> > neon died nad was eaten by the catfish. Is this
> possible?
> Everything
> > is as it should be as far as the condition of the
> tank and fish is
> > concerned. I dont know what is going on any info
> would be
> aprreciated.
> >
> > Ben
>
>
>
>


=====



Ben





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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7668 From: lois Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Good luck to ya, every fish that I have ever purchased from Walmart, has died!!!!!


Ben Noreau <ben_noreau@...> wrote:

hahahah,

     *grinz* that is what i kinda figured.  Im going
to Walmart in the am to get at least 1 more for the
sake of the surviving neon.  Thanks for the help.

Ben
--- joequality1980 <crazy.joe.walcek@...> wrote:

>
> probably the other fish quickly had a funeral
> service for the neon
> (funeral service meaning free lunch), and any
> remains are hidden
> somewhere in the tank. Try looking under rocks and
> in between plants.
>
> Or maybe the neon had a real wild time last night
> and shacked up
> with a cardinal tetra down the street
>
> --- In
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
> "ben_noreau"
> <ben_noreau@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> >      I am new to the group with a newly
> established 29 gallon
> tank.  I
> > tried to get as much information as I could BEFORE
> things were put
> > into place to ensure the safety of the fish.  The
> tank was set up
> > 12/23/04 and he fish were added on 12/29/04 and
> 12/30/04 currently
> have:
> > - 2 Neon Tetras
> > - 2 Serpae Tetras     
> > - 2 Glowlight Tetras
> > - 2 Headligh Tail Light Tetras
> >
> > -2 female sword tail
> > -2 Male Guppies
> > -1 lyre tail molly
> > -1 albino catfish
> >
> >      The problem that I have is that one of the
> neon tetras has
> gone
> > missing.  When I went to be last night at 11:30 pm
> everything was
> > fine.  When I got up and fed the fish this morning
> at 7:30 am the
> neon
> > was gone and has not reappeared.  (I feed the fish
> once a day)
> There
> > is no external cause for the fishes disappearance
> and all the other
> > fish are well and everything is otherwise normal
> in the tank.
> >
> >      Being that the fish is gone what I am
> specualting is that the
> > neon died nad was eaten by the catfish.  Is this
> possible? 
> Everything
> > is as it should be as far as the condition of the
> tank and fish is
> > concerned.  I dont know what is going on any info
> would be
> aprreciated.
> >
> > Ben
>
>
>
>


=====



Ben



     
           
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please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7669 From: Ben Noreau Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Hello,

Knock on wood so far so good. We have been
watching this location for a while. To tell you the
truth they are the best that we have available to us.
(we live in a small town) The associate that we have
talked to the most, Troy, has his own set up and is
the one that gets called in on his day off if there is
trouble.
I have talked to people that have dealt with him.
Even the people that have returned fish that have
died when they get home are happy with the product and
service that Troy has provided. I am in no way shape
or form trying to advertise for Walmart, I am just
very pleased that we have found Troy. It seems as
though everyone has good things to say about him.
I too have heard horror stories about Walmart
fish. Im not trying to downplay your experience. I
was skeptical, hesitant and worried about buying the
fish there. I checked out the local pet store, the
place was down right scary. I didnt like the staff,
they werent knowlegeable enough (and Im just a newbie)
and the tanks didnt look right. The water wesnt clear
and the fish didnt look right.

Ben



--- lois <lonelybbwmi2000@...> wrote:

> Good luck to ya, every fish that I have ever
> purchased from Walmart, has died!!!!!
>
>
> Ben Noreau <ben_noreau@...> wrote:
>
> hahahah,
>
> *grinz* that is what i kinda figured. Im going
> to Walmart in the am to get at least 1 more for the
> sake of the surviving neon. Thanks for the help.
>
> Ben
> --- joequality1980 <crazy.joe.walcek@...>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > probably the other fish quickly had a funeral
> > service for the neon
> > (funeral service meaning free lunch), and any
> > remains are hidden
> > somewhere in the tank. Try looking under rocks and
> > in between plants.
> >
> > Or maybe the neon had a real wild time last night
> > and shacked up
> > with a cardinal tetra down the street
> >
> > --- In
> > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
> > "ben_noreau"
> > <ben_noreau@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I am new to the group with a newly
> > established 29 gallon
> > tank. I
> > > tried to get as much information as I could
> BEFORE
> > things were put
> > > into place to ensure the safety of the fish.
> The
> > tank was set up
> > > 12/23/04 and he fish were added on 12/29/04 and
> > 12/30/04 currently
> > have:
> > > - 2 Neon Tetras
> > > - 2 Serpae Tetras
> > > - 2 Glowlight Tetras
> > > - 2 Headligh Tail Light Tetras
> > >
> > > -2 female sword tail
> > > -2 Male Guppies
> > > -1 lyre tail molly
> > > -1 albino catfish
> > >
> > > The problem that I have is that one of the
> > neon tetras has
> > gone
> > > missing. When I went to be last night at 11:30
> pm
> > everything was
> > > fine. When I got up and fed the fish this
> morning
> > at 7:30 am the
> > neon
> > > was gone and has not reappeared. (I feed the
> fish
> > once a day)
> > There
> > > is no external cause for the fishes
> disappearance
> > and all the other
> > > fish are well and everything is otherwise normal
> > in the tank.
> > >
> > > Being that the fish is gone what I am
> > specualting is that the
> > > neon died nad was eaten by the catfish. Is this
> > possible?
> > Everything
> > > is as it should be as far as the condition of
> the
> > tank and fish is
> > > concerned. I dont know what is going on any
> info
> > would be
> > aprreciated.
> > >
> > > Ben
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
>
>
>
> Ben
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
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>
>
>
>
>
> please delete this line and everything below it when
> replying, thanks
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
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>
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> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7670 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: Disappearing Tetra
"I am in no way shape or form trying to advertise for Walmart..."
    Then I will.  They always have good quality products for low, low prices.  Just avoid the fish tanks... :)  The main problem is that in a month Troy will be gone and the guy from electronics will be working the pet section.  I have no fish store in my town, the LWM is 20 mins away, and the LFS is 30 mins away.  I go to the LWM when I am in the town 20 mins away, but not often because it is one of the older, smaller stores.  I go 30 mins to the next WM, and when I need fish I go to the LFS that is in the same town 30 mins away.  I will now continue the advertisement for WM.  They are the only place in 40 miles that has good bettas.  They sell them in pint bowls that are as big as what I am keeping my babies in, and they are healthy.
 
Patrick, the American Fish Guy
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
-------Original Message-------
Hello,

     Knock on wood so far so good.  We have been
watching this location for a while.  To tell you the
truth they are the best that we have available to us.
(we live in a small town)  The associate that we have
talked to the most, Troy, has his own set up and is
the one that gets called in on his day off if there is
trouble.
     I have talked to people that have dealt with him.
Even the people that have returned fish that have
died when they get home are happy with the product and
service that Troy has provided.  I am in no way shape
or form trying to advertise for Walmart, I am just
very pleased that we have found Troy.  It seems as
though everyone has good things to say about him.
     I too have heard horror stories about Walmart
fish.  Im not trying to downplay your experience.  I
was skeptical, hesitant and worried about buying the
fish there.  I checked out the local pet store, the
place was down right scary.  I didnt like the staff,
they werent knowlegeable enough (and Im just a newbie)
and the tanks didnt look right.  The water wesnt clear
and the fish didnt look right.

Ben
Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7671 From: paul helms Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
any store that advertises pacus as "peaceful community
fish. Grows to six inches. eats flake." is just down
right somewhere NOT to buy fish. that sign was on the
tank at the walmart in Livermore, California. it was
a tank full of baby pacu's.
paul
--- Ben Noreau <ben_noreau@...> wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> Knock on wood so far so good. We have been
> watching this location for a while. To tell you the
> truth they are the best that we have available to
> us.
> (we live in a small town) The associate that we
> have
> talked to the most, Troy, has his own set up and is
> the one that gets called in on his day off if there
> is
> trouble.
> I have talked to people that have dealt with
> him.
> Even the people that have returned fish that have
> died when they get home are happy with the product
> and
> service that Troy has provided. I am in no way
> shape
> or form trying to advertise for Walmart, I am just
> very pleased that we have found Troy. It seems as
> though everyone has good things to say about him.
> I too have heard horror stories about Walmart
> fish. Im not trying to downplay your experience. I
> was skeptical, hesitant and worried about buying the
> fish there. I checked out the local pet store, the
> place was down right scary. I didnt like the staff,
> they werent knowlegeable enough (and Im just a
> newbie)
> and the tanks didnt look right. The water wesnt
> clear
> and the fish didnt look right.
>
> Ben
>
>
>
> --- lois <lonelybbwmi2000@...> wrote:
>
> > Good luck to ya, every fish that I have ever
> > purchased from Walmart, has died!!!!!
> >
> >
> > Ben Noreau <ben_noreau@...> wrote:
> >
> > hahahah,
> >
> > *grinz* that is what i kinda figured. Im
> going
> > to Walmart in the am to get at least 1 more for
> the
> > sake of the surviving neon. Thanks for the help.
> >
> > Ben
> > --- joequality1980 <crazy.joe.walcek@...>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > probably the other fish quickly had a funeral
> > > service for the neon
> > > (funeral service meaning free lunch), and any
> > > remains are hidden
> > > somewhere in the tank. Try looking under rocks
> and
> > > in between plants.
> > >
> > > Or maybe the neon had a real wild time last
> night
> > > and shacked up
> > > with a cardinal tetra down the street
> > >
> > > --- In
> > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
> > > "ben_noreau"
> > > <ben_noreau@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I am new to the group with a newly
> > > established 29 gallon
> > > tank. I
> > > > tried to get as much information as I could
> > BEFORE
> > > things were put
> > > > into place to ensure the safety of the fish.
> > The
> > > tank was set up
> > > > 12/23/04 and he fish were added on 12/29/04
> and
> > > 12/30/04 currently
> > > have:
> > > > - 2 Neon Tetras
> > > > - 2 Serpae Tetras
> > > > - 2 Glowlight Tetras
> > > > - 2 Headligh Tail Light Tetras
> > > >
> > > > -2 female sword tail
> > > > -2 Male Guppies
> > > > -1 lyre tail molly
> > > > -1 albino catfish
> > > >
> > > > The problem that I have is that one of
> the
> > > neon tetras has
> > > gone
> > > > missing. When I went to be last night at
> 11:30
> > pm
> > > everything was
> > > > fine. When I got up and fed the fish this
> > morning
> > > at 7:30 am the
> > > neon
> > > > was gone and has not reappeared. (I feed the
> > fish
> > > once a day)
> > > There
> > > > is no external cause for the fishes
> > disappearance
> > > and all the other
> > > > fish are well and everything is otherwise
> normal
> > > in the tank.
> > > >
> > > > Being that the fish is gone what I am
> > > specualting is that the
> > > > neon died nad was eaten by the catfish. Is
> this
> > > possible?
> > > Everything
> > > > is as it should be as far as the condition of
> > the
> > > tank and fish is
> > > > concerned. I dont know what is going on any
> > info
> > > would be
> > > aprreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Ben
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> >
> >
> >
> > Ben
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > please delete this line and everything below it
> when
> > replying, thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> to:
> >
>
FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> =====
>
>
>
> Ben
>
=== message truncated ===




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7672 From: Ray Tripp Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
You might wish to check out the Yahoo group, TheNaturalisticVivarium
which discusses herps and natural biotopes including fish and other
plants and animals to include.

>
>
> A fascinating idea, a rain forest. I would start with some research
on what everbody eats, to make sure they are not eating each other.
>
> Harry
>
> Steve <steve@...> wrote:
> I don't know about the salamanders, but you would probably be looking
at
> poison arrow frogs for the frogs you wish to include.
>
> \\Steve//
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Iksnip@... [mailto:Iksnip@...]
> Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 6:33 PM
> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
> AquaticLife ] Rain Forest Question
>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> After talking with several people I recently purchased a 75 gallon
tank and
> want to create a rain forest themed tank. Some individuals seemingly
> qualified in this area mentioned that I also consider placing some
> salamanders and frogs in the tank. However they failed to mention
specific
> species that might adapt and place minimum risk to the fish, what are
other
> people's experiences on this subject?
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
> please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
>

--
Thank you very much!
Ray Tripp
Ray@...
www.Bug-Eaters.com We've got what you're hungry for!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7673 From: Scott Tucker Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
So, if I were to have a Blue Lobster (crayfish, I suppose as the one I saw was fresh-water), it would be best to design the tank around him, and put him in with semi-aggressive fish that stay in the middle to the top of the tank?  What fish work best with Blue Crayfish? I really want to get a couple of these in a 55-gallon tank or larger, and I am trying to piece together all available information to help plan it out.  From what I have been able to gather, there would be no bottom-dwelling fish at all with these guys, correct?

Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: paul helms
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 4:21 AM
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be AquaticLife ] Blue

the blue will eat anythign it can catch
--- Scott Tucker <wintercoast@...> wrote:

> Does anyone have any information on the following?
>
> Blue Mystery Snail
> I remember seeing one in a magazine years ago, but
> have been unable to find any information on it since
> then. I know absolutely nothing about it, not even
> if it is a salt-water or fresh-water snail.
>
> Blue Lobster
> I saw this one once in a pet store, but like the
> snail mentioned above, know nothing else about it.
>
> Any and all information about the above two species
> will be greatly appreciated... especially what kind
> of species of fish will co-habitate peacefully.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Scott



           
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7674 From: Carly Smith Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: new 90 gal
Woohoo, finally a topic I have some experience with! LOL!

I have a 90 gal with two oscars and a pleco. Very nice combo (I have a tiger and a lutino so adds a bit of colour as well). From your list, which I can only partially remember...I have tried Oscar and Severum, the oscar beat the severum so bad I had to move tanks, unfortunatly she jumped out of the new tank (you would never guess what they can fit through!). Anyways, the Sev was a fair bit larger than the oscar, and she still got beat up. I have heard many reports of Oscars bullying JD's, but I would suppose that depends on teh temperment of both fish. Someone metioned heaters, so I will mention filters. Oscars need a TON of filtration! I currently have an AC500 and a Jebo 828 running with another AC500 to set up once I get the custom lid built.

You can not go wrong with an oscar, they are extremely neat fish. Of my 5 tanks, I love my oscars the best. They do however redecorate. I now have about three plants taht they seem to be leaving alone, this is about my 5th attempt. They will move rocks, branches,plants, gravel etc.

An EXCELLENT site is http://www.oscarfish.com There is tons and tons of info and lots of helpful people on there...just ignore those who tend to be a little fanatic.

Anyways, good luck with your choices, anything in a tank that big looks great!

Carly
90gal tiger oscar, lutino oscar and pleco
75 gal planted communitry
29 gal convict pair
10 gal planted betta tank
10 gal planted platy tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7675 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: Disappearing Tetra
    That must be the standard sign that they keep on their pacu tanks.  They are at least a little more honest about the size of oscars, saying that they get to 10 inches...
 
Patrick, the American Fish Guy
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
-------Original Message-------
any store that advertises pacus as "peaceful community
fish.  Grows to six inches. eats flake." is just down
right somewhere NOT to buy fish.  that sign was on the
tank at the walmart in Livermore, California.  it was
a tank full of baby pacu's.
paul
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7676 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
OK.... sounds good i did take the 3 back and told her i couldn't find the 4th which i couldn't but then i did lol so i got 4 in return... and i told her that all the research i had done and ppl i have talked too said that they are not very hardy she knows a lot but not abou them so i think she is learning as well at first she said no more of the Otto's for me and said she wanted a water sample.. i was like you know i got good water and she is like yea... anyhow she suggested i get a rubber nose or neck pleco... what do they think abo them... looked ugly and she says it tops out at 5 inches... is that true.. Shannon
    If you are sure they are dead, find as many bodies as you can and take them for replacements.  Paul, skip the next sentence. :)  Most (not all, which is why Paul should not be reading this sentence) good fish stores will replace lost fish if you bring them back within one day, especially cheaper fish like ottos.  Ottos are very strange.  About 1/3 will die within a month of going into a new tank.  The good news is that those that make it past a month do well.  The bad news is that if you get a bunch of one thriders you will have more losses than normal.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7677 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Yes, rubbernose plecos are one of the smaller species.  I would keep trying the ottos anyway.  It isn't that they are not hardy, they are just hard to adjust to new water.
 
Patrick, the American Fish Guy
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
-------Original Message-------
OK.... sounds good i did take the 3 back and told her i couldn't find the 4th which i couldn't but then i did lol so i got 4 in return... and i told her that all the research i had done and ppl i have talked too said that they are not very hardy she knows a lot but not abou them so i think she is learning as well at first she said no more of the Otto's for me and said she wanted a water sample.. i was like you know i got good water and she is like yea... anyhow she suggested i get a rubber nose or neck pleco... what do they think abo them... looked ugly and she says it tops out at 5 inches... is that true.. Shannon
Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7678 From: paul helms Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
f it were me, i would get smaller faster fish.....the
larger fish make an easier target for the
lobster/crayfish to grab at. in addition, as they get
larger they may try to eat the l/c. it is quite
common to find damaged fins when they are present
because they snap at everything. i have seen them
climd decorations and jump onto passing fish as well.
whatever you go with, get something that is active and
does not hide, for it will be easily cornered if it is
not.
paul
--- Scott Tucker <wintercoast@...> wrote:

> So, if I were to have a Blue Lobster (crayfish, I
> suppose as the one I saw was fresh-water), it would
> be best to design the tank around him, and put him
> in with semi-aggressive fish that stay in the middle
> to the top of the tank? What fish work best with
> Blue Crayfish? I really want to get a couple of
> these in a 55-gallon tank or larger, and I am trying
> to piece together all available information to help
> plan it out. From what I have been able to gather,
> there would be no bottom-dwelling fish at all with
> these guys, correct?
>
> Scott
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: paul helms
> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 4:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~
> group name soon to be AquaticLife ] Blue
>
>
> the blue will eat anythign it can catch
> --- Scott Tucker <wintercoast@...> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone have any information on the
> following?
> >
> > Blue Mystery Snail
> > I remember seeing one in a magazine years ago,
> but
> > have been unable to find any information on it
> since
> > then. I know absolutely nothing about it, not
> even
> > if it is a salt-water or fresh-water snail.
> >
> > Blue Lobster
> > I saw this one once in a pet store, but like the
> > snail mentioned above, know nothing else about
> it.
> >
> > Any and all information about the above two
> species
> > will be greatly appreciated... especially what
> kind
> > of species of fish will co-habitate peacefully.
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> >
> > Scott
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> please delete this line and everything below it
> when replying, thanks
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
>
>
FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7679 From: paul helms Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
again, poison arrow frog would denote poison.,..and
you have cats. i would stick with things like african
frogs, tree frogs, etc, unless you are interested in
carnivorous frogs .....pac mans, bull frogs, etc
--- Ray Tripp <Ray@...> wrote:

>
> You might wish to check out the Yahoo group,
> TheNaturalisticVivarium
> which discusses herps and natural biotopes including
> fish and other
> plants and animals to include.
>
> >
> >
> > A fascinating idea, a rain forest. I would start
> with some research
> on what everbody eats, to make sure they are not
> eating each other.
> >
> > Harry
> >
> > Steve <steve@...> wrote:
> > I don't know about the salamanders, but you would
> probably be looking
> at
> > poison arrow frogs for the frogs you wish to
> include.
> >
> > \\Steve//
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Iksnip@... [mailto:Iksnip@...]
> > Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 6:33 PM
> > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group
> name soon to be
> > AquaticLife ] Rain Forest Question
> >
> >
> > Hi Guys,
> >
> > After talking with several people I recently
> purchased a 75 gallon
> tank and
> > want to create a rain forest themed tank. Some
> individuals seemingly
> > qualified in this area mentioned that I also
> consider placing some
> > salamanders and frogs in the tank. However they
> failed to mention
> specific
> > species that might adapt and place minimum risk to
> the fish, what are
> other
> > people's experiences on this subject?
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > please delete this line and everything below it
> when replying, thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> to:
> >
>
FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
> >
>
> --
> Thank you very much!
> Ray Tripp
> Ray@...
> www.Bug-Eaters.com We've got what you're hungry
> for!
>
>
>
>




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7680 From: paul helms Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
oscars will get more than double that size...lmao
--- "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
<americanfishguy@...> wrote:

> That must be the standard sign that they keep on
> their pacu tanks. They
> are at least a little more honest about the size of
> oscars, saying that they
> get to 10 inches...
>
> Patrick, the American Fish Guy
>
> Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
> Cycle.
> Nitrogen Cycle
> About my tanks:
> 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
> -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
> skirt tetras, 2
> home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli
> cories, 1 pleco, one
> female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
> -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
> banana plants, java ferns,
> hornwort, and amazon swords.
> -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
> 30-60 power filter.
> 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
> -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
> -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
> amazon sword.
> -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
> gravel, Regent 10-15 power
> filter.
> -------Original Message-------
> any store that advertises pacus as "peaceful
> community
> fish. Grows to six inches. eats flake." is just
> down
> right somewhere NOT to buy fish. that sign was on
> the
> tank at the walmart in Livermore, California. it
> was
> a tank full of baby pacu's.
> paul




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7681 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
i don't get what is hard if the temp and pH are all the same... i mean i have already lost one tonight this is the second batch... its like they die within a few hours... so sad... what is a negative about the rubbbernose pleco..shannon
Yes, rubbernose plecos are one of the smaller species.  I would keep trying the ottos anyway.  It isn't that they are not hardy, they are just hard to adjust to new water.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7682 From: Richard Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: FYI: Livebearer Event
While substantially correct, that's not quite accurate. The auction is
free to attend and bid on fish. The Convention is an event that
requires a ticket--for your dinner & specialty talks.

But the nice thing is that there will be many wild livebearers
available as well as some very spectacular, very solid, fancy livebearers.

What are the costs to attend this year? And where is it in
Indianapolis? Who are your speakers?


--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "wagtail65"
<wagtail@o...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi, folks. My name is Ted Coletti. I write the monthly "Livebearers
> Unlimited" column for Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine and have been
> an aquarium hobbyist for over 20 years. I just joined the group.
>
> Is anyone going to this year's American Livebearer Association (ALA)
> Convention APril 8-10 in Indianapolis? I will be there if anyone
> wants to say hello. It's open to the public, and people will be
> selling, trading and auctioning more livebearers than you've ever
> seen in Aquabid or any other place. Lots of guest speakers and a fish
> show too. Should be a great hobby event. The ALA is non-profit
> organization, BTW, and also provides conservationand research grants
> (albeit small ones). You can get more information at
> www.livebearers.org.
>
> Feel free to ask any questions if you're interested.
>
> Ted
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7683 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
I have never had any luck with neons, always found them sucked up next to the filter. Did you try looking there?
Dorothy

joequality1980 <crazy.joe.walcek@...> wrote:

probably the other fish quickly had a funeral service for the neon
(funeral service meaning free lunch), and any remains are hidden
somewhere in the tank. Try looking under rocks and in between plants.

Or maybe the neon had a real wild time last night and shacked up
with a cardinal tetra down the street

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "ben_noreau"
<ben_noreau@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
>      I am new to the group with a newly established 29 gallon
tank.  I
> tried to get as much information as I could BEFORE things were put
> into place to ensure the safety of the fish.  The tank was set up
> 12/23/04 and he fish were added on 12/29/04 and 12/30/04 currently
have:
> - 2 Neon Tetras
> - 2 Serpae Tetras     
> - 2 Glowlight Tetras
> - 2 Headligh Tail Light Tetras
>
> -2 female sword tail
> -2 Male Guppies
> -1 lyre tail molly
> -1 albino catfish
>
>      The problem that I have is that one of the neon tetras has
gone
> missing.  When I went to be last night at 11:30 pm everything was
> fine.  When I got up and fed the fish this morning at 7:30 am the
neon
> was gone and has not reappeared.  (I feed the fish once a day)
There
> is no external cause for the fishes disappearance and all the other
> fish are well and everything is otherwise normal in the tank.
>
>      Being that the fish is gone what I am specualting is that the
> neon died nad was eaten by the catfish.  Is this possible? 
Everything
> is as it should be as far as the condition of the tank and fish is
> concerned.  I dont know what is going on any info would be
aprreciated.
>
> Ben





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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7684 From: paul helms Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
there is a lot more to water chemistry than temp and
ph...ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, chloramines,
phenylalanine (sp0 hardness, etc
--- agentscullyeyore@... wrote:

> i don't get what is hard if the temp and pH are all
> the same... i mean i have
> already lost one tonight this is the second batch...
> its like they die within
> a few hours... so sad... what is a negative about
> the rubbbernose
> pleco..shannon
> Yes, rubbernose plecos are one of the smaller
> species. I would keep trying
> the ottos anyway. It isn't that they are not hardy,
> they are just hard to
> adjust to new water.
>




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7685 From: jason stone Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
It should be noted that the reminder for the San Francisco Aquarium
Society meeting is not entirely accurate. The meeting is currently
being held at San Francisco State University. These changes and the
directions to get there are current on the SFAS website.

The web address stating these changes is http://www.sfaquarium.org/index.html


On 4 Jan 2005 03:25:38 -0000,
FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
<FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
>
>
> San Francisco Aquarium Society
>
> Friday January 7, 2005
> 7:30 pm - 9:30 pm
> This event repeats on the first Friday of every month.
> Event Location: first Friday of each month at The Academy of Sciences in
> San Francisco's Golden Gate Park.
> Notes:
> http://www.sfaquarium.org/about.html
>
> We meet the first Friday of each month at The Academy of Sciences in San
> Francisco's Golden Gate Park.
>
> Founded in 1923, the San Francisco Aquarium Society is regarded as one of
> the nation's esteemed aquarium hobbyist organizations.
> ________________________________
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7686 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: slight change in amonia and ph
my ammonia is .25 which it normally sits at zero or closer to zero and my pH is 8.0 and it is normally 7.8... is this cause i have been adding some salt in. why would this change be.. since my last test i have a new filter and have had the deaths of those Otto's but i got them out quickly Shannon
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7687 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Walmart
Tank full of 1" Oscars at local Walmart read
Cichlids, peaceful  length 5-6 inches.
when i pointed it out to the guy running the fish department he commented
we change the location of the fish all the time.  Next time i go in I expect to see a Black Moor ( gold fish) being sold as oto's truthfully..
 
I can see changing location of fish but at least change the descriptive plates on the tanks so someone don't get surprised when they throw an oscar in a 20 gallon tank and he outgrows it.
We shop walmart for alot of things but fish  NO...I would buy a betta at Walmart though if i was to buy a betta.  they have a great color selection unlike the other Fish stores.
 
 
robert
NE Indiana
 
In a message dated 1/4/2005 6:34:46 PM Central Standard Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:
any store that advertises pacus as "peaceful community
fish.  Grows to six inches. eats flake." is just down
right somewhere NOT to buy fish.  that sign was on the
tank at the walmart in Livermore, California.  it was
a tank full of baby pacu's.
paul
 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7688 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: 3 otto's/ bristlenose
rubber lipped pleco or hong kong pleco will top out at about 2.5 inches they are extremly hardy. Mine has lived through a complete tear down, no water and then filling it back up with water faucet water in winter temp was in 50's in the tank. ( they like to burrow in the gravel we learned)
bristlenose pleco/catfish will top out about 5 inches. these guys are so ugly they are cute  LOL they seriously will grow on you. They are great algae eaters I keep bristlenose in all my tanks except the Oscar tank.. :-)
 
I have tried Oto's twice and i had no luck either. 
 
Robert
NE Indiana
 
 
 
In a message dated 1/4/2005 7:43:48 PM Central Standard Time, agentscullyeyore@... writes:
OK.... sounds good i did take the 3 back and told her i couldn't find the 4th which i couldn't but then i did lol so i got 4 in return... and i told her that all the research i had done and ppl i have talked too said that they are not very hardy she knows a lot but not abou them so i think she is learning as well at first she said no more of the Otto's for me and said she wanted a water sample.. i was like you know i got good water and she is like yea... anyhow she suggested i get a rubber nose or neck pleco... what do they think abo them... looked ugly and she says it tops out at 5 inches... is that true.. Shannon
 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7689 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Thanks Robert.. Yea I lost one tonight I have 4 left so far I wont get anymore if one lives they live when I go to the store tom or the next day I will get a pleco supposedly they come in tom so i think ill wait a few days... Shannon
rubber lipped pleco or hong kong pleco will top out at about 2.5 inches they are extremly hardy. Mine has lived through a complete tear down, no water and then filling it back up with water faucet water in winter temp was in 50's in the tank. ( they like to burrow in the gravel we learned)
bristlenose pleco/catfish will top out about 5 inches. these guys are so ugly they are cute  LOL they seriously will grow on you. They are great algae eaters I keep bristlenose in all my tanks except the Oscar tank.. :-)
 
I have tried Oto's twice and i had no luck either. 
 
Robert
NE Indiana
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7690 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: 2005 ALA

2005 ALA convention

Location:

Indianapolis April 8-10, 2005. (Friday, Saturday, Sunday)

Host:

Circle City Aquarium Club, Dennis Bradshaw and Co.

Venue:

EconoLodge East
3525 No. Shadeland Avenue
Indianapolis, IN 46226
phone: 317-549-2222

Rooms:

$54.99 if you mention ALA. Book now to ensure you get a room.
 

Details:

The annual convention is the premier annual event event for the ALA. If you are serious about livebearers, or just innately curious - this is a fun, educational and truly exciting event that you will not want to miss.

Current speaker list:

Charley Grimes - after dinner
Jim Langhammer - on what ever he wants
Rusty Wessel (national speaker sponsored by Marineland) - collecting livebearers
Alexander Cruz (University of Colorado) - Limias
Joe Fleckenstein - Circle City Aquarium Club member talking on live foods
 
 
In a message dated 1/4/2005 10:00:52 PM Central Standard Time, project_management_guru@... writes:
While substantially correct, that's not quite accurate. The auction is
free to attend and bid on fish. The Convention is an event that
requires a ticket--for your dinner & specialty talks.

But the nice thing is that there will be many wild livebearers
available as well as some very spectacular, very solid, fancy livebearers.

What are the costs to attend this year? And where is it in
Indianapolis? Who are your speakers?

 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7691 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 1/4/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Shannon,  Ideally, the ammonia level for Oto's should be nearer to 0, which is not always easy to maintain.  You haven't said what your nitrites are at. The increase in pH is not caused by your addition of salt (sodium chloride), unless you are using Marine salt.  I would check your tap water for this increase, but this still should not be a problem as Oto's can tolerate a wide range of pH (5.5 - 8.0) and hardness (2o - 20o) provided they are acclimated to it slowly.  I presume you are still acclimating newly acquired fish by adding tank water periodically to the bag (and alternately releasing some water) over a period of at least 30 or more minutes(?)  If not, this may be your problem.  Have you checked the pH in the bag water first, before you started acclimating?  It could be 6.0, which would tell you they need a much longer (1 hr.) acclimation period to adjust to your water.  As for added salt, Oto's, Cory's and many other catfish do not tolerate too much salt.  I again presume you are keeping no more than the 1 tbls per 5 gallons of salt you said you were going to use(?).  Replace only the amount of salt you take out during water changes.  If that concentration has built up, that may be your problem.  Ray  
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7692 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/5/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
right now i am prolly at 2 tbs. at the most in my 20 galloon and using pickling salt... one thing i didn't do or never do is add my tank water in the bag guess that is the new thing i am going to start doing.... my nitrates and nitrites stayed the same at 0 basically or not enough to be the next color which is .25... so that is why i didnt mention them i was just concerned about the amniona.. the first time i brought the Otto's home i think the temp was of concern cause it got cold in the car on the way home and the drive was about 2 hours.. so today put my sweatshirt over them and got home in 30 minutes... i have onlylost one tonight ill add water to the bag next time... hopefully i wont loose anymore.. also i have been slowing lowers the temp in my tank from 78 to 76,, can i go down to 75 or lower... i have gourami, hatchet fish, killifish, tetras and cories.. Shannon
Shannon,  Ideally, the ammonia level for Oto's should be nearer to 0, which is not always easy to maintain.  You haven't said what your nitrites are at. The increase in pH is not caused by your addition of salt (sodium chloride), unless you are using Marine salt.  I would check your tap water for this increase, but this still should not be a problem as Oto's can tolerate a wide range of pH (5.5 - 8.0) and hardness (2o - 20o) provided they are acclimated to it slowly.  I presume you are still acclimating newly acquired fish by adding tank water periodically to the bag (and alternately releasing some water) over a period of at least 30 or more minutes(?)  If not, this may be your problem.  Have you checked the pH in the bag water first, before you started acclimating?  It could be 6.0, which would tell you they need a much longer (1 hr.) acclimation period to adjust to your water.  As for added salt, Oto's, Cory's and many other catfish do not tolerate too much salt.  I again presume you are keeping no more than the 1 tbls per 5 gallons of salt you said you were going to use(?).  Replace only the amount of salt you take out during water changes.  If that concentration has built up, that may be your problem.  Ray  
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7693 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 1/5/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Shannon,  Yes, you have nothing that requires high temperatures, so you can lower it to 75 or so, just that its done slowly of course.  The fish you have do not need 78 anyway.  When adding water to a new bag of fish (after first floating it to equalize the temperature), tie it up again and leave it float for 10 minutes, after which time untie and dump part (1/3) of the water and repeat.  Do this up to five or six times over the course of an hour depending upon how different the bag water is compared to your tank water.  Always good to test the bag water first so you know how much acclimation is required.  Never discard the bag water into your tank either during this process or when you're ready to add the fish to your tank.  Ray
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7694 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/5/2005
Subject: Re: new 90 gal
Thanks so much for the reply and for the link, that's a great site!


----- Original Message -----
From: "Carly Smith" <questnjurny@...>


>
> Woohoo, finally a topic I have some experience with! LOL!
>
> I have a 90 gal with two oscars and a pleco. Very nice combo (I have a
> tiger and a lutino so adds a bit of colour as well). From your list,
> which I can only partially remember...I have tried Oscar and Severum, the
> oscar beat the severum so bad I had to move tanks, unfortunatly she jumped
> out of the new tank (you would never guess what they can fit through!).
> Anyways, the Sev was a fair bit larger than the oscar, and she still got
> beat up. I have heard many reports of Oscars bullying JD's, but I would
> suppose that depends on teh temperment of both fish. Someone metioned
> heaters, so I will mention filters. Oscars need a TON of filtration! I
> currently have an AC500 and a Jebo 828 running with another AC500 to set
> up once I get the custom lid built.
>
> You can not go wrong with an oscar, they are extremely neat fish. Of my 5
> tanks, I love my oscars the best. They do however redecorate. I now have
> about three plants taht they seem to be leaving alone, this is about my
> 5th attempt. They will move rocks, branches,plants, gravel etc.
>
> An EXCELLENT site is http://www.oscarfish.com There is tons and tons of
> info and lots of helpful people on there...just ignore those who tend to
> be a little fanatic.
>
> Anyways, good luck with your choices, anything in a tank that big looks
> great!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7696 From: paul helms Date: 1/5/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
i can't think of a cichlid that only grows to 5 or 6
inches and is peaceful. even angel get agressive a
sthey mature and become breeders....
--- FortWayneFish@... wrote:

>
> Tank full of 1" Oscars at local Walmart read
> Cichlids, peaceful length 5-6 inches.
> when i pointed it out to the guy running the fish
> department he commented
> we change the location of the fish all the time.
> Next time i go in I expect
> to see a Black Moor ( gold fish) being sold as oto's
> truthfully..
>
> I can see changing location of fish but at least
> change the descriptive
> plates on the tanks so someone don't get surprised
> when they throw an oscar in a 20
> gallon tank and he outgrows it.
> We shop walmart for alot of things but fish NO...I
> would buy a betta at
> Walmart though if i was to buy a betta. they have a
> great color selection unlike
> the other Fish stores.
>
>
> robert
> NE Indiana
>
> In a message dated 1/4/2005 6:34:46 PM Central
> Standard Time,
> wtfmorlok@... writes:
>
> any store that advertises pacus as "peaceful
> community
> fish. Grows to six inches. eats flake." is just
> down
> right somewhere NOT to buy fish. that sign was on
> the
> tank at the walmart in Livermore, California. it
> was
> a tank full of baby pacu's.
> paul
>
>
>
>




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7697 From: paul helms Date: 1/5/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
ammonia is either in your new water, from decomposing
fish, or from excess foods. if the tank is
established, the ammonia from respiration and
excretion should be in check with teh biologic filter.
salt raises the acid level in water. this is why it
is used in cooking. lowering the acid level makes
heat exchanges more rapid,,,ie. water will boil
faster, or release its cold faster. this is why rock
salt is used to make icecream...the temp drastically
drops with teh addition of salt to ice.
paul
--- agentscullyeyore@... wrote:

> my ammonia is .25 which it normally sits at zero or
> closer to zero and my pH
> is 8.0 and it is normally 7.8... is this cause i
> have been adding some salt
> in. why would this change be.. since my last test i
> have a new filter and have
> had the deaths of those Otto's but i got them out
> quickly Shannon
>





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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7698 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/5/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
"i can't think of a cichlid that only grows to 5 or 6 inches and is peaceful."
Bolivian Rams?  But the ones at the LWM are mixed varieties of various Africans, so that doesn't matter. :)
 
Patrick, the American Fish Guy
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7699 From: Florence Ivy Date: 1/5/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
blood parrots kept alone (in singles) are often extremely shy for their
size and not particularly aggressive.
amalthea
On Jan 5, 2005, at 5:27 PM, Patrick, The American Fish Guy wrote:

> "i can't think of a cichlid that only grows to 5 or 6 inches and is
> peaceful."
> Bolivian Rams?  But the ones at the LWM are mixed varieties of various
> Africans, so that doesn't matter. :)
>  
> Patrick, the American Fish Guy
>  
> Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
> Nitrogen Cycle
>
> About my tanks:  
> 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
> -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2
> home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one
> female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
> -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java
> ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
> -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
> 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
> -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
> -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
> -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15
> power filter.
>
> <imstp_emo_en.gif>
>
> please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7700 From: Larry Date: 1/5/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
what about a keyhole? not sure how big they get, but
they are rather peaceful aren't they?

--- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

>
> i can't think of a cichlid that only grows to 5 or 6
> inches and is peaceful. even angel get agressive a
> sthey mature and become breeders....
> --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:
>
> >
> > Tank full of 1" Oscars at local Walmart read
> > Cichlids, peaceful length 5-6 inches.
> > when i pointed it out to the guy running the fish
> > department he commented
> > we change the location of the fish all the time.
> > Next time i go in I expect
> > to see a Black Moor ( gold fish) being sold as
> oto's
> > truthfully..
> >
> > I can see changing location of fish but at least
> > change the descriptive
> > plates on the tanks so someone don't get surprised
> > when they throw an oscar in a 20
> > gallon tank and he outgrows it.
> > We shop walmart for alot of things but fish
> NO...I
> > would buy a betta at
> > Walmart though if i was to buy a betta. they have
> a
> > great color selection unlike
> > the other Fish stores.
> >
> >
> > robert
> > NE Indiana
> >
> > In a message dated 1/4/2005 6:34:46 PM Central
> > Standard Time,
> > wtfmorlok@... writes:
> >
> > any store that advertises pacus as "peaceful
> > community
> > fish. Grows to six inches. eats flake." is just
> > down
> > right somewhere NOT to buy fish. that sign was on
> > the
> > tank at the walmart in Livermore, California. it
> > was
> > a tank full of baby pacu's.
> > paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
>
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
>
>




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7701 From: Anne Date: 1/5/2005
Subject: Hello
Hi, My name is Anne and I am very, very new to keeping
fish in an aquarium. I have 2 Beta's that have their
own homes in very large bowls but I'm moving one of
them into a 5 gal. aquarium soon. I've had one of the
betas for 2 years, the other one for a week or so. I
recently was given a 10gal. aquarium and after setting
it up and waiting a week, I put in 2 Mollies, and an
algae eater 2 weeks ago.
I'm sure I'll have alot of questions as I go along and
I'll be reading all the posts.
Thanks
Anne

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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7702 From: charsi187 Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: Want tp put 60gal in my house wall
Hi all,

I have a 60gal long tank that I want to put in a wall which is 25ft
tall and 4 inches thick.
I need some help on doing this.
Can anyone help ? Any drawings, tips or ideas ?

Thanks,
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7703 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: Tank in wall
Is your wall a load bearing wall or just a room divider? if load bearing you'll have to run supports and to maintain the weight before you do anything ( consult a professional builder or engineer)
 
 
You'll have to custom build a stand to fit in the desinated space.
Aquaria Central > DIY > DIY Stand  Depending on how high you want your tank to sit.  Most people prefer a tank at the highest point ( not including lid/lights)of around 48 inches, this makes it easier to get into and clean.No matter what your 4 inch wall will now have to be at least 12 inches wide or more depending on tank size. You'll want some way to get into your tank, so you'll have to access from one side or the other on the wall.Maybe a piano hinge on an access door could be a solution for you.  Would a little outcropping of say 8 inches by 4 foot be a big deal, or would you want to build the whole wall out?
If you have drain acess or water source you could plumb these into the wall next to the tank for easier maintence. Your electricity needs will have to be addressed also. would a simple plug in work or do you require more then 2 plugs?  Hardwiring a couple plug in's out of sight inside the wall might be a good idea. Hang them above tank level incase of water spillage. 
 
It could be a BIG project or a Bigger one  depending on how technical you want to get..
 
robert
NE Indiana
USA
In a message dated 1/6/2005 2:50:29 AM Central Standard Time, charsi187@... writes:
Hi all,

I have a 60gal long tank that I want to put in a wall which is 25ft
tall and 4 inches thick.
I need some help on doing this.
Can anyone help ? Any drawings, tips or ideas ?

Thanks,
 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7704 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: AQUATIC STAMPS
Just came from the post office.
For anyone who's interested, they have a block of 10 thirty seven cent stamps that have fishes, etc., on them.    It's called Pacific Coral Reef.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7705 From: loisontheweb Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: Is my iron-rich water killing my fish?
Several times I have thoroughly cleaned, rinsed, and sun-aired my
aquarium... but my fish always die... not right away, not all at
onece.
This has been happening about five times over the past two
years. I even got a bottle of something that was supposed to make
the water healthier for the fish by adding a little every few days.
I have a charcoal bubbler and a charcoal filterer. The fish were
gold fish, etc that did not need heated water.
Is my iron-rich water killing my fish? This is an area of iron
mines; the water gets a red sediment.
OR: would it be the natural rocks & sea shells (I had also washed,
rinsed, and aired these.)
OR: I have always gotten my fish from the same Walmart Store.

I want to try again, and will get fish from a different store, but
was hoping to solve my problem first.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7706 From: Florence Ivy Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
why are you cleaning your tank like that? doing so kills all of the
helpful bacteria, it's possible that your fish are all dying from
ammonia poisoning.
amalthea
On Jan 6, 2005, at 7:35 PM, loisontheweb wrote:

>
>
>   Several times I have thoroughly cleaned, rinsed, and sun-aired my
> aquarium... but my fish always die... not right away, not all at
> onece. 
>      This has been happening about five times over the past two
> years.  I even got a bottle of something that was supposed to make
> the water healthier for the fish by adding a little every few days. 
> I have a charcoal bubbler and a charcoal filterer.  The fish were
> gold fish, etc that did not need heated water.
>   Is my iron-rich water killing my fish? This is an area of iron
> mines; the water gets a red sediment.
> OR: would it be the natural rocks & sea shells (I had also washed,
> rinsed, and aired these.)
> OR:  I have always gotten my fish from the same Walmart Store.
>
> I want to try again, and will get fish from a different store, but
> was hoping to solve my problem first.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7707 From: paul helms Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
no, you are killing your fish. a charcoal filter is
not a biuologic filter...your either need a bio wheel
or an under gravel filter to grow benneficial
bacteria. everytime you wash out your tank, you wipe
out everthing that keeps your tank healthy! you need
to cycle the tank 4-6 weeks. fish or fishless is up
to you. i personally go fishless, but stop cleaning
the tank out!
--- loisontheweb <loisontheweb@...> wrote:

>
>
> Several times I have thoroughly cleaned, rinsed,
> and sun-aired my
> aquarium... but my fish always die... not right
> away, not all at
> onece.
> This has been happening about five times over
> the past two
> years. I even got a bottle of something that was
> supposed to make
> the water healthier for the fish by adding a little
> every few days.
> I have a charcoal bubbler and a charcoal filterer.
> The fish were
> gold fish, etc that did not need heated water.
> Is my iron-rich water killing my fish? This is an
> area of iron
> mines; the water gets a red sediment.
> OR: would it be the natural rocks & sea shells (I
> had also washed,
> rinsed, and aired these.)
> OR: I have always gotten my fish from the same
> Walmart Store.
>
> I want to try again, and will get fish from a
> different store, but
> was hoping to solve my problem first.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>





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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7708 From: griselle cottingham Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Hi Lois,
After months of going thru the same problem, I
always assumed cleaning the entire tank was the best
remedy...bad choice. The best medicine was to learn
what was going on inside the water.
The best thing that helped me was to set up the
entire tank, and let it run for about a month, I ran
weekly tests on the water with a master kit, and I
also took samples of the water to my local fish store.
The fish guys were always helpful in deciding what my
tank was lacking and what I needed to add to make my
tank as healthy as possible.
The good news is I was able to learn more about the
water and exactly what the fishes needed. And to this
day it helped me have healthy fish and a healthy
environment for my community tank:

8 black skirted tetras,
2 platys,
1 dwarf gouramis,
1 clown loach,
1 plecos

I hope this will help you somewhat. Don't give up!
The very best of luck!

Rebeca


--- loisontheweb <loisontheweb@...> wrote:

>
>
> Several times I have thoroughly cleaned, rinsed,
> and sun-aired my
> aquarium... but my fish always die... not right
> away, not all at
> onece.
> This has been happening about five times over
> the past two
> years. I even got a bottle of something that was
> supposed to make
> the water healthier for the fish by adding a little
> every few days.
> I have a charcoal bubbler and a charcoal filterer.
> The fish were
> gold fish, etc that did not need heated water.
> Is my iron-rich water killing my fish? This is an
> area of iron
> mines; the water gets a red sediment.
> OR: would it be the natural rocks & sea shells (I
> had also washed,
> rinsed, and aired these.)
> OR: I have always gotten my fish from the same
> Walmart Store.
>
> I want to try again, and will get fish from a
> different store, but
> was hoping to solve my problem first.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7709 From: lois Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Ummmmmm, it wasn't me that posted this note. My tank , happy to announce that it is doing just great!!!!!
I'm kind of new at this too, but I know about the cleaning thing, and wiping out all the benificial bacteria that needs to be in that tank.
From reading,researching, and talking to people, one can learn a lot!!!
Thank you for the advice tho.
One can never learn too much, and wanting to learn more about the hobby, is always a good thing.
Lois

griselle cottingham <gcorchado@...> wrote:

Hi Lois,
       After months of going thru the same problem, I
always assumed cleaning the entire tank was the best
remedy...bad choice. The best medicine was to learn
what was going on inside the water. 
  The best thing that helped me was to set up the
entire tank, and let it run for about a month, I ran
weekly tests on the water with a master kit, and I
also took samples of the water to my local fish store.
The fish guys were always helpful in deciding what my
tank was lacking and what I needed to add to make my
tank as healthy as possible. 
  The good news is I was able to learn more about the
water and exactly what the fishes needed. And to this
day it helped me have healthy fish and a healthy
environment for my community tank:

8 black skirted tetras,
2 platys,
1 dwarf gouramis,
1 clown loach,
1 plecos

I hope this will help you somewhat.  Don't give up!
The very best of luck!

Rebeca


--- loisontheweb <loisontheweb@...> wrote:

>
>
>   Several times I have thoroughly cleaned, rinsed,
> and sun-aired my
> aquarium... but my fish always die... not right
> away, not all at
> onece. 
>      This has been happening about five times over
> the past two
> years.  I even got a bottle of something that was
> supposed to make
> the water healthier for the fish by adding a little
> every few days. 
> I have a charcoal bubbler and a charcoal filterer.
> The fish were
> gold fish, etc that did not need heated water.
>   Is my iron-rich water killing my fish? This is an
> area of iron
> mines; the water gets a red sediment.
> OR: would it be the natural rocks & sea shells (I
> had also washed,
> rinsed, and aired these.)
> OR:  I have always gotten my fish from the same
> Walmart Store.
>
> I want to try again, and will get fish from a
> different store, but
> was hoping to solve my problem first.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



           
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please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7710 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Hi Anne,
  Welome to the group! I am sure you will receive a lot of good, important information here. i don't post a lot as I am still learning, too.
Dorothy

Anne <md_gustoby@...> wrote:

Hi, My name is Anne and I am very, very new to keeping
fish in an aquarium. I have 2 Beta's that have their
own homes in very large bowls but I'm moving one of
them into a 5 gal. aquarium soon. I've had one of the
betas for 2 years, the other one for a week or so. I
recently was given a 10gal. aquarium and after setting
it up and waiting a week, I put in 2 Mollies, and an
algae eater 2 weeks ago.
I'm sure I'll have alot of questions as I go along and
I'll be reading all the posts.
Thanks
Anne

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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7711 From: ben_noreau Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Aquarium Accessories
Hello,

I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for accessories. I
have a 29 gallon tank that was purchased as a kit. I have all of the
needs, I want to make the tank more "fun" for the fish. I already
have some sea scape items for the botton of the tank (Tunnels and fake
coral) and some plastic plants.

I have:
6 neon tetra
3 high fin black tetra
3 red eye tetra
2 head light tail light
2 serpae tetra
2 glowlight tetra
2 female sword tail
2 male guppies
1 lyre tail mollie
1 ablino corrie cat fish

The reason why I ask is that I have seen things like bubble
stones and bubble curtains and I have heard that having these can be
good for the fish too. I would like things that will help the fish
too. Thanks in advance for any info.

BenN
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7712 From: griselle cottingham Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Geez,

Thanks for the correction. Sorry about that, Im fairly
new at this site, I guess I just need to find the
sender with the problems. :)
Thanks again.
Rebeca
--- lois <lonelybbwmi2000@...> wrote:

> Ummmmmm, it wasn't me that posted this note. My tank
> , happy to announce that it is doing just great!!!!!
> I'm kind of new at this too, but I know about the
> cleaning thing, and wiping out all the benificial
> bacteria that needs to be in that tank.
> From reading,researching, and talking to people, one
> can learn a lot!!!
> Thank you for the advice tho.
> One can never learn too much, and wanting to learn
> more about the hobby, is always a good thing.
> Lois
>
> griselle cottingham <gcorchado@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Lois,
> After months of going thru the same problem,
> I
> always assumed cleaning the entire tank was the best
> remedy...bad choice. The best medicine was to learn
> what was going on inside the water.
> The best thing that helped me was to set up the
> entire tank, and let it run for about a month, I ran
> weekly tests on the water with a master kit, and I
> also took samples of the water to my local fish
> store.
> The fish guys were always helpful in deciding what
> my
> tank was lacking and what I needed to add to make my
> tank as healthy as possible.
> The good news is I was able to learn more about
> the
> water and exactly what the fishes needed. And to
> this
> day it helped me have healthy fish and a healthy
> environment for my community tank:
>
> 8 black skirted tetras,
> 2 platys,
> 1 dwarf gouramis,
> 1 clown loach,
> 1 plecos
>
> I hope this will help you somewhat. Don't give up!
> The very best of luck!
>
> Rebeca
>
>
> --- loisontheweb <loisontheweb@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Several times I have thoroughly cleaned, rinsed,
> > and sun-aired my
> > aquarium... but my fish always die... not right
> > away, not all at
> > onece.
> > This has been happening about five times over
> > the past two
> > years. I even got a bottle of something that was
> > supposed to make
> > the water healthier for the fish by adding a
> little
> > every few days.
> > I have a charcoal bubbler and a charcoal filterer.
>
> > The fish were
> > gold fish, etc that did not need heated water.
> > Is my iron-rich water killing my fish? This is
> an
> > area of iron
> > mines; the water gets a red sediment.
> > OR: would it be the natural rocks & sea shells (I
> > had also washed,
> > rinsed, and aired these.)
> > OR: I have always gotten my fish from the same
> > Walmart Store.
> >
> > I want to try again, and will get fish from a
> > different store, but
> > was hoping to solve my problem first.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn
> more.
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
>
>
>
>
> please delete this line and everything below it when
> replying, thanks
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> protection around
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7713 From: Angela Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: New Tank Update
Hello All,

I thought I'd give you an update on my tank. We got a 20 gallon
aquarium and all the equipment for Christmas. I read two great
books for beginners in freshwater aquarium set up and also got great
advice from this group and the fish store employee. We started with
a Buenos Aires Tetra and Black Skirt Tetra. After passing our water
tests (our great fish stores will test unlimited samples for no
charge!), we added three zebra danios. Yesterday I got three neon
tetras and an emerald cory catfish. Now for the intersting part of
the story. We have lost a neon tetra - not dead, just lost. I've
looked everywhere - the filter, aquarium decorations, plants, around
the tank (there's a cover, but there are little openings around the
filter and heater), and NOTHING! There are not "remains". Where do
you think this little fellow went? I counted them before I left for
a substituting job at the elmentary school and all three of them
were there. When we got home, I had told the kids we had the new
fish, and my 7 year old yelled to give me the news that we only had
two neons. So, what are your ideas?

Thanks,
Angela in Richmond, VA
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7714 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Lost neon
the buenos aires or the black skirt ate it.  well maybe not.
Recheck the floor around the tank, Neons are known jumpers, they also like to swim upstream, so if you have a Hang on Back filter check the filter cartrige area.
 
We did had 10 Big Buenos Aires( 2 yrs old or older ) in a 30 gallon tank as dither fish. We'd feed guppies to the tank every  other week. Every once in awhile, the tetras would grab a guppy
so its not out of posibilities. 
 
Robert
NE Indiana
USA
 
 
 
In a message dated 1/7/2005 12:23:06 PM Central Standard Time, angelasjenkins@... writes:
Hello All,

I thought I'd give you an update on my tank.  We got a 20 gallon
aquarium and all the equipment for Christmas.  I read two great
books for beginners in freshwater aquarium set up and also got great
advice from this group and the fish store employee.  We started with
a Buenos Aires Tetra and Black Skirt Tetra.  After passing our water
tests (our great fish stores will test unlimited samples for no
charge!), we added three zebra danios.  Yesterday I got three neon
tetras and an emerald cory catfish.  Now for the intersting part of
the story.  We have lost a neon tetra - not dead, just lost.  I've
looked everywhere - the filter, aquarium decorations, plants, around
the tank (there's a cover, but there are little openings around the
filter and heater), and NOTHING!  There are not "remains".  Where do
you think this little fellow went?  I counted them before I left for
a substituting job at the elmentary school and all three of them
were there.  When we got home, I had told the kids we had the new
fish, and my 7 year old yelled to give me the news that we only had
two neons.  So, what are your ideas?

Thanks,
Angela in Richmond, VA
 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7715 From: Ben Noreau Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Hello,

I had the same thing happen to me too. I have
talked to several different people and the group has
been most helpful. Its probably a matter of it got
eaten, or died and got eaten. That is what happened
in my case, or its at least the most reasonable
speculation.

BenN

--- FortWayneFish@... wrote:

>
> the buenos aires or the black skirt ate it. well
> maybe not.
> Recheck the floor around the tank, Neons are known
> jumpers, they also like to
> swim upstream, so if you have a Hang on Back filter
> check the filter cartrige
> area.
>
> We did had 10 Big Buenos Aires( 2 yrs old or older )
> in a 30 gallon tank as
> dither fish. We'd feed guppies to the tank every
> other week. Every once in
> awhile, the tetras would grab a guppy
> so its not out of posibilities.
>
> Robert
> NE Indiana
> USA
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/7/2005 12:23:06 PM Central
> Standard Time,
> angelasjenkins@... writes:
>
> Hello All,
>
> I thought I'd give you an update on my tank. We got
> a 20 gallon
> aquarium and all the equipment for Christmas. I
> read two great
> books for beginners in freshwater aquarium set up
> and also got great
> advice from this group and the fish store employee.
> We started with
> a Buenos Aires Tetra and Black Skirt Tetra. After
> passing our water
> tests (our great fish stores will test unlimited
> samples for no
> charge!), we added three zebra danios. Yesterday I
> got three neon
> tetras and an emerald cory catfish. Now for the
> intersting part of
> the story. We have lost a neon tetra - not dead,
> just lost. I've
> looked everywhere - the filter, aquarium
> decorations, plants, around
> the tank (there's a cover, but there are little
> openings around the
> filter and heater), and NOTHING! There are not
> "remains". Where do
> you think this little fellow went? I counted them
> before I left for
> a substituting job at the elmentary school and all
> three of them
> were there. When we got home, I had told the kids
> we had the new
> fish, and my 7 year old yelled to give me the news
> that we only had
> two neons. So, what are your ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Angela in Richmond, VA
>
>
>
>


=====



Ben




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7716 From: Ray Tripp Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
All amphibians have some toxin, however, poison dart frogs are not fed
the toxic ants in captivity and loose the poison in captivity,
fortunatly not their bright colors. They're not big enough to eat the
majority of fish. The others however, is another story...

>
>
> again, poison arrow frog would denote poison.,..and
> you have cats. i would stick with things like african
> frogs, tree frogs, etc, unless you are interested in
> carnivorous frogs .....pac mans, bull frogs, etc
> --- Ray Tripp <Ray@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > You might wish to check out the Yahoo group,
> > TheNaturalisticVivarium
> > which discusses herps and natural biotopes including
> > fish and other
> > plants and animals to include.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > A fascinating idea, a rain forest. I would start
> > with some research
> > on what everbody eats, to make sure they are not
> > eating each other.
> > >
> > > Harry
> > >
> > > Steve <steve@...> wrote:
> > > I don't know about the salamanders, but you would
> > probably be looking
> > at
> > > poison arrow frogs for the frogs you wish to
> > include.
> > >
> > > \\Steve//
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Iksnip@... [mailto:Iksnip@...]
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 6:33 PM
> > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group
> > name soon to be
> > > AquaticLife ] Rain Forest Question
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Guys,
> > >
> > > After talking with several people I recently
> > purchased a 75 gallon
> > tank and
> > > want to create a rain forest themed tank. Some
> > individuals seemingly
> > > qualified in this area mentioned that I also
> > consider placing some
> > > salamanders and frogs in the tank. However they
> > failed to mention
> > specific
> > > species that might adapt and place minimum risk to
> > the fish, what are
> > other
> > > people's experiences on this subject?
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > please delete this line and everything below it
> > when replying, thanks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > >
> >
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> > to:
> > >
> >
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Thank you very much!
> > Ray Tripp
> > Ray@...
> > www.Bug-Eaters.com We've got what you're hungry
> > for!
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
>
>
>
>
> please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
Thank you very much!
Ray Tripp
Ray@...
www.Bug-Eaters.com We've got what you're hungry for!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7717 From: Steve Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Exploring the Environment: Coral Reefs
Wheeling Jesuit University/NASA-Exploring the Environment: Coral Reefs
http://www.cotf.edu/ete/modules/coralreef/CRmain.html

>From Wheeling Jesuit University and NASA-Classroom of the Future, this
website introduces students to environmental challenges facing the world's
coral reefs. This Coral Reefs learning module is part of the Exploring the
Environment series (first reported on in the January 1, 1998 Scout Report
for Science & Engineering) which present students with real-world
environmental problems resulting from human activities. The Coral Reef site
contains concise sections that address Biodiversity, Climate Change, Spheres
(e.g. Anthrosphere, Hydrosphere, Biosphere), and Remote Sensing. The site's
Teacher Pages provide support information for using the module including
instructions for software-use, and objectives for Problem-Based Learning.
The site also contains good-quality photographs, related links, and
references. Other modules in the Exploring the Environment site include
Mountain Gorillas, Florida Everglades, Yellowstone Fires, Temperate
Rainforest, and more.

>From The NSDL Scout Report for the Life Sciences, Copyright Internet Scout
Project 1994-2004. http://scout.wisc.edu/


\\Steve//

Note: This post may contain misspellings, grammatical errors, disorganized
sentence structure, or may entirely lack a coherent theme. These elements
are natural to the process of writing, and will only add to the overall
beauty of the post.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7718 From: Steve Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Surf and Turf
Or, fun with Photoshop. Entries to a contest where one is to picture a
critter composed of a land animal and a sea critter. Not all fish, but a
large portion are.

http://tinyurl.com/4uf5r

Enjoy!

\\Steve//

Note: This post may contain misspellings, grammatical errors, disorganized
sentence structure, or may entirely lack a coherent theme. These elements
are natural to the process of writing, and will only add to the overall
beauty of the post.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7719 From: Anne Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Hi, Thanks for the welcome. I'm beginning to think you
need to be a scienctist to keep an aquarium. LOL I
lost a goldfish yesterday and another one this
morning. I was told to check my ph which I did with
one of those strips. According to one stripe, it was
very high so I went to the store to get something to
lower it. The petshop gave me a fizz tablet to correct
the problem and it came with another test stripe with
dir. to test before using. This time the stripe showed
the ph was in the neutral range. So, both goldfish
died within 24hrs. but the algae eater and mollies are
doing great. Are there test kits that have numerical
ranges instead of color charts? Thanks
Anne



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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7720 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Harry
Have you talked to the owner of the group lately?  He had such big plans for the group name, and nothing happened.
 
Patrick, the American Fish Guy
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7721 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    As long as the water is drinkable, the pH is fine for most aquarium fish.  It is very easy to kill fish when you change their pH.  Test strips are bad.  They use words like high, low, and normal, which mean nothing.  High might be normal, normal might be low, and low might be high.  While you don't have to have a degree in science, by the time you learn a little about water chemistry, you will be practicing science without a license.  A crime? :)
 
Patrick, the American Fish Guy
 
Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
About my tanks:  
29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
-I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
-Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
-Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
-4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
-Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
-2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
-------Original Message-------
Hi, Thanks for the welcome. I'm beginning to think you
need to be a scienctist to keep an aquarium. LOL I
lost a goldfish yesterday and another one this
morning. I was told to check my ph which I did with
one of those strips. According to one stripe, it was
very high so I went to the store to get something to
lower it. The petshop gave me a fizz tablet to correct
the problem and it came with another test stripe with
dir. to test before using. This time the stripe showed
the ph was in the neutral range. So, both goldfish
died within 24hrs. but the algae eater and mollies are
doing great. Are there test kits that have numerical
ranges instead of color charts? Thanks
Anne
Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7722 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Rain Forest
Hi Everyone,

thanks for the advice so far.  As I continue my research I found an interesting sight at mongabay.com.  In the sight they list species of fish by country, some details that seem important like climate and ph level.  I was wondering if anyone had any experience aquarium shopping using this sight as a resource and their success.  I am rather focused it seems on a south american rain forest (still looking for my ideal 75 gallon tank). 

In hitting Petsmart tonight I saw Firebelly toads and was wondering people's experience with them in an aquarium habitat. 

thanks for the continued guidance,

Ken
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7723 From: Anne Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
Hi, While I have no information about the site you
asked about and really no advice to offer about which
fish, frogs etc. I think the idea of a rainforest
aquarium is really fascinating. I hope that when you
have completed all your research and the aquarium is
up and running, you'll post pics of it. I would love
to see it. Good luck

Anne



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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7724 From: Anne Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
I couldn't agree more. Test strips are the pits!
After using 2 and getting 2 completely different
readings, I went to Petsmart and bought one that
actually has numeric readings. What's your opinion of
those tablets that are sold to get rid of amonia, or
balance PH, etc. They sort of remind me of Alka
Seltzers? Are they any good?
Thanks
Anne





"Test strips are bad. They use words like high, low,
and normal, which mean nothing. High might be normal,
normal might be low, and low might be high. While you
don't have to have a degree in science, by the time
you learn a little about water chemistry, you will be
practicing science without a license. A crime? :)



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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7725 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: # of fish per gallon
Although I understand there are numerous factors to consider, what is the general guideline of fish per gallon of tank when looking at things like tetras, catfish, ghosts, etc

thanks

ken
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7726 From: paul helms Date: 1/9/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
the genral idea is 1 inch per gallon of community fish
--- Iksnip@... wrote:

> Although I understand there are numerous factors to
> consider, what is the
> general guideline of fish per gallon of tank when
> looking at things like tetras,
> catfish, ghosts, etc
>
> thanks
>
> ken
>




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7727 From: paul helms Date: 1/9/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
if you do not have your tank yet, what state do you
live in.... i am selling a 110 gallon 5 foot tank.
paul
--- Iksnip@... wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> thanks for the advice so far.� As I continue my
> research I found an
> interesting sight at mongabay.com.� In the sight
> they list species of fish by country,
> some details that seem important like climate and ph
> level.� I was wondering
> if anyone had any experience aquarium shopping using
> this sight as a resource
> and their success.� I am rather focused it seems on
> a south american rain
> forest (still looking for my ideal 75 gallon tank).�
>
>
> In hitting Petsmart tonight I saw Firebelly toads
> and was wondering people's
> experience with them in an aquarium habitat.�
>
> thanks for the continued guidance,
>
> Ken
>




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7728 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 1/9/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
I am in Illinois.  how much out of curiosity?
Ken
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7729 From: paul helms Date: 1/9/2005
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
probably 375.00 it is the high end stand
--- Iksnip@... wrote:

> I am in Illinois. how much out of curiosity?
> Ken
>




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7730 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: 90g stocking
I think we've decided against an oscar for the new 90g. I'm not interested in pairs/breeding, so would the following combination work as far as compatability:
 
salvini
green terror
Jack Dempsey
 
I also currently have a 1.5" female con and ~3.5" male firemouth I was hoping to add to this tank.
 
What are my options as far as bottom feeders other than common plecs?
 
And are there any dither fish that would be safe with this setup?


 
 
 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7731 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 1/10/2005
Subject: Fwd: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquati
Attachments :
    You sure do like the more aggressive Cichlids!  That is an interesting selection, though.  With lots of rocks, open-end caves and driftwood, this should work especially if you get them small (all around the same size) and grow them up together.  The Dempsey can get to 10"-11" and the Salvini can get to about 10".  There are at least two species (or sub-species) of Green Terrors.  One gets to around 6 1/2" and another to 12" or more.  I believe its the last one that has the nice orange trim around the outer edges of its fins.  I don't think you'll be able to keep the Convict and Firemouth in there when the rest get bigger, although given enough cover they may all get along.  The female Convict may get to 4" and the Firemouth will to to around 6 1/2" max.    Ray
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7732 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/10/2005
    Subject: Re: 90g stocking
    Thanks for the info. This will be my largest tank and my husband & I are interested in larger, more agressive fish.
     
    I do plan on buying all juvenile fish. My biggest concern is the green terror. Can you think of any other options that would work in this setup?
     
     
     
     
     
     
    ----- Original Message -----

    You sure do like the more aggressive Cichlids!  That is an interesting selection, though.  With lots of rocks, open-end caves and driftwood, this should work especially if you get them small (all around the same size) and grow them up together.  The Dempsey can get to 10"-11" and the Salvini can get to about 10".  There are at least two species (or sub-species) of Green Terrors.  One gets to around 6 1/2" and another to 12" or more.  I believe its the last one that has the nice orange trim around the outer edges of its fins.  I don't think you'll be able to keep the Convict and Firemouth in there when the rest get bigger, although given enough cover they may all get along.  The female Convict may get to 4" and the Firemouth will to to around 6 1/2" max.    Ray

    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7733 From: Audrey Archer Date: 1/10/2005
    Subject: Re: bacterial filter
    Huh? No, you don't. Who told you that? The "biological filter" is a process, not an item you purchase.

    Bacteria will populate your tank, in the gravel and on the plants and on any other decor, plus they will populate the plastic parts on a hang-on filter, and are present in the water itself.

    I did a fishless cycle in April to get my bacteria up and going, and although I lost my first few fish (the ones I got from the PetsMart, and the female dwarf gouramis and their fry) I now have over 80 fish and several pond snails (5 golden white clouds and the rest are Endler's, can't keep track of the breeding so there might be 30 more by the time I get home tonight) in my ten gallon tank, yes I said ten gallons, and the bacteria are keeping the ammonia and nitrite levels stable at 0 ppm. (Test every week.) I do water changes of about 15% every week or 2, and vac PART of the gravel. Saturday my nitrates were only at 30 ppm so I only topped off what had evaporated. My pH was 7.2... have driftwood in the tank, too, to keep that neutral - my tap water comes out at about 8.0 - 8.5, depending on how much rain we have had (well water). But all I have is the cheap hang-on filter that came with the tank, and it only about half works now. No bio-wheel. No undergravel filter.

    Audrey

    > your either need a bio wheel
    or an under gravel filter to grow benneficial
    bacteria.>
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7734 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/10/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        While I agree it doesn't have to be a ugf or biowheel (any filter will work), some type of filter is needed to move the water around or the bacteria in the gravel will not be the ones that we want, they will be anaerobic bacteria that can be bad.  The reason is that the gravel will not have O2 in the water without a filter.  Probably half of the bacteria that convert ammonia and nitrite live in the filter, where all the water moves through.  I personally think the cheap power filters are as good as anything else, but mostly because even cheap ones move water.  You have to have water movement to bring O2 to the water to the bacteria, which was probably the point of that statement you quoted.  The bio filter is in fact a solid structure (gravel, filter plate, cartridge, wheel) with bacteria growing on it, not a process.  The biological process is a process. :)
     
    Patrick, the American Fish Guy
     
    Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
    About my tanks:  
    29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
    -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
    -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
    -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
    10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
    -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
    -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
    -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
    -------Original Message-------
    Huh? No, you don't. Who told you that? The "biological filter" is a process, not an item you purchase.

    Bacteria will populate your tank, in the gravel and on the plants and on any other decor, plus they will populate the plastic parts on a hang-on filter, and are present in the water itself.

    I did a fishless cycle in April to get my bacteria up and going, and although I lost my first few fish (the ones I got from the PetsMart, and the female dwarf gouramis and their fry) I now have over 80 fish and several pond snails (5 golden white clouds and the rest are Endler's, can't keep track of the breeding so there might be 30 more by the time I get home tonight) in my ten gallon tank, yes I said ten gallons, and the bacteria are keeping the ammonia and nitrite levels stable at 0 ppm. (Test every week.) I do water changes of about 15% every week or 2, and vac PART of the gravel. Saturday my nitrates were only at 30 ppm so I only topped off what had evaporated. My pH was 7.2... have driftwood in the tank, too, to keep that neutral - my tap water comes out at about 8.0 - 8.5, depending on how much rain we have had (well water). But all I have is the cheap hang-on filter that came with the tank, and it only about half works now. No bio-wheel. No undergravel filter.

    Audrey

    > your either need a bio wheel
    or an under gravel filter to grow benneficial
    bacteria.>
    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7735 From: Sharon Roten Date: 1/10/2005
    Subject: from Sharon
    I want to give my tank one more week of aging before I put my fish in.  But, my question is....which would be better....live plants or artificial ones? 
     
    Thank you,
    Pastor Sharon
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7736 From: joequality1980 Date: 1/10/2005
    Subject: Re: from Sharon
    personally I believe live plants add more realism and vitality to
    the tank. Even if you dont quite get it to look 100% natural,
    knowing that you're keeping live fish and plants healthy is
    satisfying. Plus, real plants stimulate beneficial bacterial and
    more, than just plastic plants that collect algae; this helps with
    cycling.

    Just make sure you have enough light (at least 2 watts per gallon or
    a lot of sunlight) and substrate.

    > I want to give my tank one more week of aging before I put my fish
    in. But,
    > my question is....which would be better....live plants or
    artificial ones?
    >
    > Thank you,
    > Pastor Sharon
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7737 From: paul helms Date: 1/10/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    Sharon, it really depends on what type of fish you
    plan on keeping. most cichlids will uproot the plants
    on a regular basis. in addition, many plants do not
    do well with under gravel filters.
    paul
    --- Sharon Roten <rainbow5150@...> wrote:

    > I want to give my tank one more week of aging before
    > I put my fish in. But,
    > my question is....which would be better....live
    > plants or artificial ones?
    >
    > Thank you,
    > Pastor Sharon




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    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7738 From: paul helms Date: 1/10/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    audrey-
    you quite obviously don't fully comprehend what a
    biologic filter is and what the biologic process does.
    a biologic filter consists of a media that supports
    colonization by bacteria, and something to move water
    over it to bring oxygen to it. if there is nothing
    moving water through your gravel it will grow
    anaerobic bacteria which will be detrimental to the
    tank. by changing water and vac'ing every 2 weeks you
    are doing the job of the bacteria that you are
    lacking. when you can run your system for 6 months
    with out doing anything but adding water lost due to
    evaporation, you can then say that your bacteria is
    sufficeint to maintain your nitrate levels where they
    are. as you have 80 fish in a 10 gallon tank i would
    not doubt that your tank is laden with bacteria, but
    would also guarantee that if you skipped water changes
    for 60 days your whole tank would be dead
    --- Audrey Archer <arch1574@...> wrote:

    > Huh? No, you don't. Who told you that? The
    > "biological filter" is a process, not an item you
    > purchase.
    >
    > Bacteria will populate your tank, in the gravel and
    > on the plants and on any other decor, plus they will
    > populate the plastic parts on a hang-on filter, and
    > are present in the water itself.
    >
    > I did a fishless cycle in April to get my bacteria
    > up and going, and although I lost my first few fish
    > (the ones I got from the PetsMart, and the female
    > dwarf gouramis and their fry) I now have over 80
    > fish and several pond snails (5 golden white clouds
    > and the rest are Endler's, can't keep track of the
    > breeding so there might be 30 more by the time I get
    > home tonight) in my ten gallon tank, yes I said ten
    > gallons, and the bacteria are keeping the ammonia
    > and nitrite levels stable at 0 ppm. (Test every
    > week.) I do water changes of about 15% every week or
    > 2, and vac PART of the gravel. Saturday my nitrates
    > were only at 30 ppm so I only topped off what had
    > evaporated. My pH was 7.2... have driftwood in the
    > tank, too, to keep that neutral - my tap water comes
    > out at about 8.0 - 8.5, depending on how much rain
    > we have had (well water). But all I have is the
    > cheap hang-on filter that came with the tank, and it
    > only about half works now. No bio-wheel. No
    > undergravel filter.
    >
    > Audrey
    >
    > > your either need a bio wheel
    > or an under gravel filter to grow benneficial
    > bacteria.>
    >
    >
    >




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    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7739 From: Sharon Date: 1/10/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
     Thank you....I was sorta hoping you would say that.  I love the real thing too....but was thinking of the quality of the water and the safety of my fish.  
     
    -------Original Message-------
     
    Date: 01/10/05 18:53:05
    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be AquaticLife ] Re: from Sharon
     

    personally I believe live plants add more realism and vitality to
    the tank. Even if you dont quite get it to look 100% natural,
    knowing that you're keeping live fish and plants healthy is
    satisfying. Plus, real plants stimulate beneficial bacterial and
    more, than just plastic plants that collect algae; this helps with
    cycling.

    Just make sure you have enough light (at least 2 watts per gallon or
    a lot of sunlight) and substrate.

    > I want to give my tank one more week of aging before I put my fish
    in.  But,
    > my question is....which would be better....live plants or
    artificial ones? 
    >
    > Thank you,
    > Pastor Sharon





    •  

     
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7740 From: paul helms Date: 1/10/2005
    Subject: Re: Fwd: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aq
    in my experience the convicts will stay out of teh way
    of the larger cichlids, and the firemouths flare out
    generally help it to avoid getting beaten up. i have
    never seen a green terror over about 8 inches, and
    both types have the orange or yellow stripes.
    paul
    --- sevenspringss@... wrote:

    > You sure do like the more aggressive Cichlids! That
    > is an interesting
    > selection, though. With lots of rocks, open-end
    > caves and driftwood, this should
    > work especially if you get them small (all around
    > the same size) and grow them
    > up together. The Dempsey can get to 10"-11" and the
    > Salvini can get to about
    > 10". There are at least two species (or
    > sub-species) of Green Terrors. One
    > gets to around 6 1/2" and another to 12" or more. I
    > believe its the last one
    > that has the nice orange trim around the outer edges
    > of its fins. I don't think
    > you'll be able to keep the Convict and Firemouth in
    > there when the rest get
    > bigger, although given enough cover they may all get
    > along. The female Convict
    > may get to 4" and the Firemouth will to to around 6
    > 1/2" max. Ray
    >

    > ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822
    > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
    > From: "Dan & Theresa" <dtmergl@...>
    > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 09:38:56 -0500
    > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group
    > name soon to be AquaticLife ] 90g stocking
    >
    > I think we've decided against an oscar for the new
    > 90g. I'm not interested in pairs/breeding, so would
    > the following combination work as far as
    > compatability:
    >
    > salvini
    > green terror
    > Jack Dempsey
    >
    > I also currently have a 1.5" female con and ~3.5"
    > male firemouth I was hoping to add to this tank.
    >
    > What are my options as far as bottom feeders other
    > than common plecs?
    >
    > And are there any dither fish that would be safe
    > with this setup?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >




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    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7741 From: arch1574 Date: 1/10/2005
    Subject: Re: Biological filter - new subject brackish tank
    Well, at least that makes some sense, Patrick. Yes, I actually meant
    to say that "biological filtration" is a process, not the "filter"
    itself; and my point was only that a "filter" did not have to be
    purchased to achieve it. Sorry... I do have a planted tank. And in
    my 29 gallon, which cycled in three days, I do have a better filter
    (Whisper 30) and an airstone. Maybe any oxygenation in a tank is
    enough for a biological filter to be established. Is this possible?

    Anyone have any advice for a "brackish" tank? This is crazy , but...
    Saturday I started a new 10 gallon tank with 20 lbs of Aragalive
    Black REEF substrate, 1 T Epsom salt, 1 T freshwater salt, and 1 tsp
    baking soda (my well water is already close to the same pH as
    seawater, maybe because we are so close to the coast) then
    decided, "whatever", and added a cup of Kosher salt. I am thinking
    of getting a SINGLE dwarf puffer for my husband. (Enough of the baby
    fish already, you know? Darn Endler's and Convicts are going to take
    over my whole house...) This was, I admit, an impulse move. Ordered
    the African cichlid substrate and they sent the wrong kind - they
    LOOK exactly the same, so I guess the packers couldn't read English -
    and my husband decided it was too much trouble to go downtown to
    return it. So I started another tank with it. Nothing in it yet but
    what I just said... the filter (another cheap Regent) and heater are
    running. Don't have anything to test salt with... has to get up to
    0.3% to show up on my salt monitor for my diet. What is the best
    thing to get? Do I HAVE to use sea salt, since this substrate is
    supposed to have the other minerals in it already? Is the salt going
    to "eat" parts of my tank, or electrocute me if I get my hand in the
    water?

    Audrey

    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick, The
    American Fish Guy" <americanfishguy@h...> wrote:
    > While I agree it doesn't have to be a ugf or biowheel (any
    filter will
    > work), some type of filter is needed to move the water around or
    the
    > bacteria in the gravel will not be the ones that we want, they
    will be
    > anaerobic bacteria that can be bad. The reason is that the gravel
    will not
    > have O2 in the water without a filter. Probably half of the
    bacteria that
    > convert ammonia and nitrite live in the filter, where all the
    water moves
    > through. I personally think the cheap power filters are as good
    as anything
    > else, but mostly because even cheap ones move water. You have to
    have water
    > movement to bring O2 to the water to the bacteria, which was
    probably the
    > point of that statement you quoted. The bio filter is in fact a
    solid
    > structure (gravel, filter plate, cartridge, wheel) with bacteria
    growing on
    > it, not a process. The biological process is a process. :)
    >
    > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
    >
    > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
    > Nitrogen Cycle
    > About my tanks:
    > 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
    > -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2
    > home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco,
    one
    > female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
    > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants,
    java ferns,
    > hornwort, and amazon swords.
    > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power
    filter.
    > 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
    > -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
    > -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
    > -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-
    15 power
    > filter.
    > -------Original Message-------
    > Huh? No, you don't. Who told you that? The "biological filter" is
    a process,
    > not an item you purchase.
    >
    > Bacteria will populate your tank, in the gravel and on the plants
    and on any
    > other decor, plus they will populate the plastic parts on a hang-
    on filter,
    > and are present in the water itself.
    >
    > I did a fishless cycle in April to get my bacteria up and going,
    and
    > although I lost my first few fish (the ones I got from the
    PetsMart, and the
    > female dwarf gouramis and their fry) I now have over 80 fish and
    several
    > pond snails (5 golden white clouds and the rest are Endler's,
    can't keep
    > track of the breeding so there might be 30 more by the time I get
    home
    > tonight) in my ten gallon tank, yes I said ten gallons, and the
    bacteria are
    > keeping the ammonia and nitrite levels stable at 0 ppm. (Test
    every week.) I
    > do water changes of about 15% every week or 2, and vac PART of the
    gravel.
    > Saturday my nitrates were only at 30 ppm so I only topped off what
    had
    > evaporated. My pH was 7.2... have driftwood in the tank, too, to
    keep that
    > neutral - my tap water comes out at about 8.0 - 8.5, depending on
    how much
    > rain we have had (well water). But all I have is the cheap hang-on
    filter
    > that came with the tank, and it only about half works now. No bio-
    wheel. No
    > undergravel filter.
    >
    > Audrey
    >
    > > your either need a bio wheel
    > or an under gravel filter to grow benneficial
    > bacteria.>
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7742 From: Aranel Date: 1/10/2005
    Subject: Goldfish...
    Hello! I don't know if anyone on here keeps goldfish or not, but I'll
    ask my question anyway. I used to have goldfish a few years ago, now I
    just have 29 gallon community tank. I've been thinking about getting
    another goldfish though lately, but I don't have room for another "big"
    tank. How would an oranda or lionhead do in a ten gallon tank?

    They've had some really cute ones at Wal-mart recently, and I'm dying to
    get one. I've looked around on the net, and so far all of the sites say
    that these two types only get to about five inches long, though they are
    deep bodied. The ones at Wal-mart are only about an inch long (not
    including the tail). How long would it take one to get that big? Could
    it stay in a ten gallon for a couple of years?

    -Aranel
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7743 From: arch1574 Date: 1/10/2005
    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be AquaticLife
    Paul, although I am new to the hobby (less than a year) I do
    understand that my tank does not have the complete biological
    filtration cycle going on - teh bacteria convert the ammonia to
    nitrites and then other bacteria convert the nitrites to nitrates
    only, but the cycle I am able to achieve does not eliminate the
    nitrates, although my plants do keep those in control to some
    degree; I understood that the nitrogen cycle could not be completed
    in my tank, before I got my first fish.
    Yes, I do the 15% water changes if the nitrates get up to or past 40
    ppm, and I don't mind doing it. It is just another part of
    interacting with my fish, and another interesting part of this new
    hobby for me. Without a water change, about 5-10% of my water
    evaporates a week anyway, so I might be able to get by without a
    change for longer than that. I just have never tried.
    But those water changes are still not taking the complete place of
    the nitrogen cycle - only the last phase. I had thought, from what I
    researched, that the kind of bacteria that accomplished that last
    phase, converting nitrates to nitrogen, were anaerobic, not aerobic.
    I could certainly be mistaken, but I thought that was why we can't
    achieve the complete cycle in a tank. The diagrams I found showed
    that part taking place in the soil.
    Are you really saying that a bio-wheel spinning around under a flow
    of water at the top of a tank can complete the final stage of the
    cycle and convert nitrates to harmless nitrogen, and allow someone
    to not change their water (to eliminate the nitrates) ever? Cool, if
    true, but...

    Audrey
    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
    <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
    > audrey-
    > you quite obviously don't fully comprehend what a
    > biologic filter is and what the biologic process does.
    > a biologic filter consists of a media that supports
    > colonization by bacteria, and something to move water
    > over it to bring oxygen to it. if there is nothing
    > moving water through your gravel it will grow
    > anaerobic bacteria which will be detrimental to the
    > tank. by changing water and vac'ing every 2 weeks you
    > are doing the job of the bacteria that you are
    > lacking. when you can run your system for 6 months
    > with out doing anything but adding water lost due to
    > evaporation, you can then say that your bacteria is
    > sufficeint to maintain your nitrate levels where they
    > are. as you have 80 fish in a 10 gallon tank i would
    > not doubt that your tank is laden with bacteria, but
    > would also guarantee that if you skipped water changes
    > for 60 days your whole tank would be dead
    > --- Audrey Archer <arch1574@b...> wrote:
    >
    > > Huh? No, you don't. Who told you that? The
    > > "biological filter" is a process, not an item you
    > > purchase.
    > >
    > > Bacteria will populate your tank, in the gravel and
    > > on the plants and on any other decor, plus they will
    > > populate the plastic parts on a hang-on filter, and
    > > are present in the water itself.
    > >
    > > I did a fishless cycle in April to get my bacteria
    > > up and going, and although I lost my first few fish
    > > (the ones I got from the PetsMart, and the female
    > > dwarf gouramis and their fry) I now have over 80
    > > fish and several pond snails (5 golden white clouds
    > > and the rest are Endler's, can't keep track of the
    > > breeding so there might be 30 more by the time I get
    > > home tonight) in my ten gallon tank, yes I said ten
    > > gallons, and the bacteria are keeping the ammonia
    > > and nitrite levels stable at 0 ppm. (Test every
    > > week.) I do water changes of about 15% every week or
    > > 2, and vac PART of the gravel. Saturday my nitrates
    > > were only at 30 ppm so I only topped off what had
    > > evaporated. My pH was 7.2... have driftwood in the
    > > tank, too, to keep that neutral - my tap water comes
    > > out at about 8.0 - 8.5, depending on how much rain
    > > we have had (well water). But all I have is the
    > > cheap hang-on filter that came with the tank, and it
    > > only about half works now. No bio-wheel. No
    > > undergravel filter.
    > >
    > > Audrey
    > >
    > > > your either need a bio wheel
    > > or an under gravel filter to grow benneficial
    > > bacteria.>
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > __________________________________
    > Do you Yahoo!?
    > The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
    > http://my.yahoo.com
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7744 From: Lyndsay Date: 1/10/2005
    Subject: Stocking of a 24 gal
    I have a new 24 gal tank and am planning to put these guys in when it
    has cycled:

    6 Neon Tetras
    4 Peppered Cories
    3 Female Bettas
    6 Rummy Nose Tetras

    Would this be overstocking it?
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7745 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/10/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        No, it wouldn't.  It would be about 30 inches of fish, but when you look at the fish, they are not messy.   You could probably even add another cory, neon, and RN.
     
    Patrick, the American Fish Guy
     
    Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
    About my tanks:  
    29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
    -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
    -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
    -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
    10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
    -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
    -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
    -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
    -------Original Message-------
    I have a new 24 gal tank and am planning to put these guys in when it
    has cycled:

    6 Neon Tetras
    4 Peppered Cories
    3 Female Bettas
    6 Rummy Nose Tetras

    Would this be overstocking it?
    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7746 From: Steve Date: 1/10/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    I believe the thingie you are looking for is called a hydrometer. You will
    want to have a reading of 1.005 as a fair median, but be sure to let it vary
    for your fish's pleasure.

    I've used sea salt (read marine mixes) to best effect in a brackish tank.
    I've tried other salts, and combinations of salt, but have had the best
    results with sea salt.

    If there is any metal that comes in contact with the water, either directly
    or indirectly, you are hazarding corrosion of the metal. All plastics will
    be safe, so far as I know.

    So far as electrocution, well, if you drop your toaster in there, you'll get
    the same shock as with freshwater.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: arch1574 [mailto:arch1574@...]
    Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 7:51 PM
    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
    AquaticLife ] re: Biological filter - new subject brackish tank




    Well, at least that makes some sense, Patrick. Yes, I actually meant
    to say that "biological filtration" is a process, not the "filter"
    itself; and my point was only that a "filter" did not have to be
    purchased to achieve it. Sorry... I do have a planted tank. And in
    my 29 gallon, which cycled in three days, I do have a better filter
    (Whisper 30) and an airstone. Maybe any oxygenation in a tank is
    enough for a biological filter to be established. Is this possible?

    Anyone have any advice for a "brackish" tank? This is crazy , but...
    Saturday I started a new 10 gallon tank with 20 lbs of Aragalive
    Black REEF substrate, 1 T Epsom salt, 1 T freshwater salt, and 1 tsp
    baking soda (my well water is already close to the same pH as
    seawater, maybe because we are so close to the coast) then
    decided, "whatever", and added a cup of Kosher salt. I am thinking
    of getting a SINGLE dwarf puffer for my husband. (Enough of the baby
    fish already, you know? Darn Endler's and Convicts are going to take
    over my whole house...) This was, I admit, an impulse move. Ordered
    the African cichlid substrate and they sent the wrong kind - they
    LOOK exactly the same, so I guess the packers couldn't read English -
    and my husband decided it was too much trouble to go downtown to
    return it. So I started another tank with it. Nothing in it yet but
    what I just said... the filter (another cheap Regent) and heater are
    running. Don't have anything to test salt with... has to get up to
    0.3% to show up on my salt monitor for my diet. What is the best
    thing to get? Do I HAVE to use sea salt, since this substrate is
    supposed to have the other minerals in it already? Is the salt going
    to "eat" parts of my tank, or electrocute me if I get my hand in the
    water?

    Audrey
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7747 From: Lyndsay Date: 1/10/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    OK, thanks. What about adding some zebra danios?

    > No, it wouldn't. It would be about 30 inches of fish, but when
    you look
    > at the fish, they are not messy. You could probably even add
    another cory,
    > neon, and RN.
    >
    > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
    >
    > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
    > Nitrogen Cycle
    > About my tanks:
    > 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
    > -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2
    > home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco,
    one
    > female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
    > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java
    ferns,
    > hornwort, and amazon swords.
    > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power
    filter.
    > 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
    > -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
    > -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
    > -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-
    15 power
    > filter.
    > -------Original Message-------
    > I have a new 24 gal tank and am planning to put these guys in when
    it
    > has cycled:
    >
    > 6 Neon Tetras
    > 4 Peppered Cories
    > 3 Female Bettas
    > 6 Rummy Nose Tetras
    >
    > Would this be overstocking it?
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7748 From: paul helms Date: 1/10/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    i personally do not do water changes because:
    1. my tank has 2-3 times the filtration required.
    2. my tanks are not overstocked
    3. i do not over feed.
    personally i do not believe that a biowheel can
    replace an under gravel filter with powerheads, but
    the 2 together make for a "bullet proof" system. we
    already had a massively huge debate on the subject.
    unfortunatey heavily planted tanks can't use ug
    filters because the roots will clog them. in that
    case a biowheel is perfect. i have gone as long as 3
    years without doing a water change....only topping
    off, so yes cycling the tank (which takes 4-6 weeks,
    not 3 days) will help. whie products such as "cycle"
    clai to work in 3 days....they can't make bacteria
    grow and reproduce in that span of time. it is a
    completely false label. if you wait only three days,
    you may as well have waited 3 hours. as far as
    anaerobic bacteria being the one that gases off
    nitrogen, you are correct, but the anaerobic bacteria
    can't perform that function if there is any oxygen
    present, so it ends up polluting the water in this
    situation. one other note is that if you are reaching
    40ppm in as little as 1-2 weeks, the tank is no where
    near cycled, you are basically restarting teh tanks
    cycle over and over. the number of fish (80)in the
    tank will never let it cycle, because they are
    polluting far faster than bacteria is reproducing.
    paul
    --- arch1574 <arch1574@...> wrote:

    >
    > Paul, although I am new to the hobby (less than a
    > year) I do
    > understand that my tank does not have the complete
    > biological
    > filtration cycle going on - teh bacteria convert the
    > ammonia to
    > nitrites and then other bacteria convert the
    > nitrites to nitrates
    > only, but the cycle I am able to achieve does not
    > eliminate the
    > nitrates, although my plants do keep those in
    > control to some
    > degree; I understood that the nitrogen cycle could
    > not be completed
    > in my tank, before I got my first fish.
    > Yes, I do the 15% water changes if the nitrates get
    > up to or past 40
    > ppm, and I don't mind doing it. It is just another
    > part of
    > interacting with my fish, and another interesting
    > part of this new
    > hobby for me. Without a water change, about 5-10% of
    > my water
    > evaporates a week anyway, so I might be able to get
    > by without a
    > change for longer than that. I just have never
    > tried.
    > But those water changes are still not taking the
    > complete place of
    > the nitrogen cycle - only the last phase. I had
    > thought, from what I
    > researched, that the kind of bacteria that
    > accomplished that last
    > phase, converting nitrates to nitrogen, were
    > anaerobic, not aerobic.
    > I could certainly be mistaken, but I thought that
    > was why we can't
    > achieve the complete cycle in a tank. The diagrams I
    > found showed
    > that part taking place in the soil.
    > Are you really saying that a bio-wheel spinning
    > around under a flow
    > of water at the top of a tank can complete the final
    > stage of the
    > cycle and convert nitrates to harmless nitrogen, and
    > allow someone
    > to not change their water (to eliminate the
    > nitrates) ever? Cool, if
    > true, but...
    >
    > Audrey
    > --- In
    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul
    > helms
    > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
    > > audrey-
    > > you quite obviously don't fully comprehend what a
    > > biologic filter is and what the biologic process
    > does.
    > > a biologic filter consists of a media that
    > supports
    > > colonization by bacteria, and something to move
    > water
    > > over it to bring oxygen to it. if there is
    > nothing
    > > moving water through your gravel it will grow
    > > anaerobic bacteria which will be detrimental to
    > the
    > > tank. by changing water and vac'ing every 2 weeks
    > you
    > > are doing the job of the bacteria that you are
    > > lacking. when you can run your system for 6
    > months
    > > with out doing anything but adding water lost due
    > to
    > > evaporation, you can then say that your bacteria
    > is
    > > sufficeint to maintain your nitrate levels where
    > they
    > > are. as you have 80 fish in a 10 gallon tank i
    > would
    > > not doubt that your tank is laden with bacteria,
    > but
    > > would also guarantee that if you skipped water
    > changes
    > > for 60 days your whole tank would be dead
    > > --- Audrey Archer <arch1574@b...> wrote:
    > >
    > > > Huh? No, you don't. Who told you that? The
    > > > "biological filter" is a process, not an item
    > you
    > > > purchase.
    > > >
    > > > Bacteria will populate your tank, in the gravel
    > and
    > > > on the plants and on any other decor, plus they
    > will
    > > > populate the plastic parts on a hang-on filter,
    > and
    > > > are present in the water itself.
    > > >
    > > > I did a fishless cycle in April to get my
    > bacteria
    > > > up and going, and although I lost my first few
    > fish
    > > > (the ones I got from the PetsMart, and the
    > female
    > > > dwarf gouramis and their fry) I now have over 80
    > > > fish and several pond snails (5 golden white
    > clouds
    > > > and the rest are Endler's, can't keep track of
    > the
    > > > breeding so there might be 30 more by the time I
    > get
    > > > home tonight) in my ten gallon tank, yes I said
    > ten
    > > > gallons, and the bacteria are keeping the
    > ammonia
    > > > and nitrite levels stable at 0 ppm. (Test every
    > > > week.) I do water changes of about 15% every
    > week or
    > > > 2, and vac PART of the gravel. Saturday my
    > nitrates
    > > > were only at 30 ppm so I only topped off what
    > had
    > > > evaporated. My pH was 7.2... have driftwood in
    > the
    > > > tank, too, to keep that neutral - my tap water
    > comes
    > > > out at about 8.0 - 8.5, depending on how much
    > rain
    > > > we have had (well water). But all I have is the
    > > > cheap hang-on filter that came with the tank,
    > and it
    > > > only about half works now. No bio-wheel. No
    > > > undergravel filter.
    > > >
    > > > Audrey
    > > >
    > > > > your either need a bio wheel
    > > > or an under gravel filter to grow benneficial
    > > > bacteria.>
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > __________________________________
    > > Do you Yahoo!?
    > > The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
    > > http://my.yahoo.com
    >
    >
    >
    >




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    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7749 From: paul helms Date: 1/10/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    you may want to go more toward a black moor, they stay
    a bit smaller than orandas
    --- Aranel <aranel@...> wrote:

    > Hello! I don't know if anyone on here keeps goldfish
    > or not, but I'll
    > ask my question anyway. I used to have goldfish a
    > few years ago, now I
    > just have 29 gallon community tank. I've been
    > thinking about getting
    > another goldfish though lately, but I don't have
    > room for another "big"
    > tank. How would an oranda or lionhead do in a ten
    > gallon tank?
    >
    > They've had some really cute ones at Wal-mart
    > recently, and I'm dying to
    > get one. I've looked around on the net, and so far
    > all of the sites say
    > that these two types only get to about five inches
    > long, though they are
    > deep bodied. The ones at Wal-mart are only about an
    > inch long (not
    > including the tail). How long would it take one to
    > get that big? Could
    > it stay in a ten gallon for a couple of years?
    >
    > -Aranel
    >




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    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7750 From: paul helms Date: 1/10/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    brackish water is 20% saltwater 80% fresh water, last
    i heard. i am not 100% certain on that because i don't
    keep brackish...only fresh and salt. but i do know
    that the best (or easiest) way to get the correct
    salinity is to make salt water which has a specific
    gravity of 1.023 optimally which is about 1/3-1/2 c
    salt per gallon of water. if the correct ratio is 4-1
    then make 1 gallon salt for every 4 galons of fresh
    (use a hydrometer to test specific gravity 12-20
    dollars)
    paul
    --- arch1574 <arch1574@...> wrote:

    >
    > Well, at least that makes some sense, Patrick. Yes,
    > I actually meant
    > to say that "biological filtration" is a process,
    > not the "filter"
    > itself; and my point was only that a "filter" did
    > not have to be
    > purchased to achieve it. Sorry... I do have a
    > planted tank. And in
    > my 29 gallon, which cycled in three days, I do have
    > a better filter
    > (Whisper 30) and an airstone. Maybe any oxygenation
    > in a tank is
    > enough for a biological filter to be established. Is
    > this possible?
    >
    > Anyone have any advice for a "brackish" tank? This
    > is crazy , but...
    > Saturday I started a new 10 gallon tank with 20 lbs
    > of Aragalive
    > Black REEF substrate, 1 T Epsom salt, 1 T freshwater
    > salt, and 1 tsp
    > baking soda (my well water is already close to the
    > same pH as
    > seawater, maybe because we are so close to the
    > coast) then
    > decided, "whatever", and added a cup of Kosher salt.
    > I am thinking
    > of getting a SINGLE dwarf puffer for my husband.
    > (Enough of the baby
    > fish already, you know? Darn Endler's and Convicts
    > are going to take
    > over my whole house...) This was, I admit, an
    > impulse move. Ordered
    > the African cichlid substrate and they sent the
    > wrong kind - they
    > LOOK exactly the same, so I guess the packers
    > couldn't read English -
    > and my husband decided it was too much trouble to
    > go downtown to
    > return it. So I started another tank with it.
    > Nothing in it yet but
    > what I just said... the filter (another cheap
    > Regent) and heater are
    > running. Don't have anything to test salt with...
    > has to get up to
    > 0.3% to show up on my salt monitor for my diet. What
    > is the best
    > thing to get? Do I HAVE to use sea salt, since this
    > substrate is
    > supposed to have the other minerals in it already?
    > Is the salt going
    > to "eat" parts of my tank, or electrocute me if I
    > get my hand in the
    > water?
    >
    > Audrey
    >
    > --- In
    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
    > "Patrick, The
    > American Fish Guy" <americanfishguy@h...> wrote:
    > > While I agree it doesn't have to be a ugf or
    > biowheel (any
    > filter will
    > > work), some type of filter is needed to move the
    > water around or
    > the
    > > bacteria in the gravel will not be the ones that
    > we want, they
    > will be
    > > anaerobic bacteria that can be bad. The reason is
    > that the gravel
    > will not
    > > have O2 in the water without a filter. Probably
    > half of the
    > bacteria that
    > > convert ammonia and nitrite live in the filter,
    > where all the
    > water moves
    > > through. I personally think the cheap power
    > filters are as good
    > as anything
    > > else, but mostly because even cheap ones move
    > water. You have to
    > have water
    > > movement to bring O2 to the water to the bacteria,
    > which was
    > probably the
    > > point of that statement you quoted. The bio
    > filter is in fact a
    > solid
    > > structure (gravel, filter plate, cartridge, wheel)
    > with bacteria
    > growing on
    > > it, not a process. The biological process is a
    > process. :)
    > >
    > > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
    > >
    > > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
    > Cycle.
    > > Nitrogen Cycle
    > > About my tanks:
    > > 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
    > > -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
    > skirt tetras, 2
    > > home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli
    > cories, 1 pleco,
    > one
    > > female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
    > > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
    > banana plants,
    > java ferns,
    > > hornwort, and amazon swords.
    > > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
    > 30-60 power
    > filter.
    > > 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
    > > -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino
    > cory.
    > > -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
    > amazon sword.
    > > -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
    > gravel, Regent 10-
    > 15 power
    > > filter.
    > > -------Original Message-------
    > > Huh? No, you don't. Who told you that? The
    > "biological filter" is
    > a process,
    > > not an item you purchase.
    > >
    > > Bacteria will populate your tank, in the gravel
    > and on the plants
    > and on any
    > > other decor, plus they will populate the plastic
    > parts on a hang-
    > on filter,
    > > and are present in the water itself.
    > >
    > > I did a fishless cycle in April to get my bacteria
    > up and going,
    > and
    > > although I lost my first few fish (the ones I got
    > from the
    > PetsMart, and the
    > > female dwarf gouramis and their fry) I now have
    > over 80 fish and
    > several
    > > pond snails (5 golden white clouds and the rest
    > are Endler's,
    > can't keep
    > > track of the breeding so there might be 30 more by
    > the time I get
    > home
    > > tonight) in my ten gallon tank, yes I said ten
    > gallons, and the
    > bacteria are
    > > keeping the ammonia and nitrite levels stable at 0
    > ppm. (Test
    > every week.) I
    > > do water changes of about 15% every week or 2, and
    > vac PART of the
    > gravel.
    > > Saturday my nitrates were only at 30 ppm so I only
    > topped off what
    > had
    > > evaporated. My pH was 7.2... have driftwood in the
    > tank, too, to
    > keep that
    > > neutral - my tap water comes out at about 8.0 -
    > 8.5, depending on
    > how much
    > > rain we have had (well water). But all I have is
    > the cheap hang-on
    > filter
    > > that came with the tank, and it only about half
    > works now. No bio-
    > wheel. No
    > > undergravel filter.
    > >
    > > Audrey
    > >
    > > > your either need a bio wheel
    > > or an under gravel filter to grow benneficial
    > > bacteria.>
    >
    >
    >
    >




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    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7751 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/11/2005
    Subject: Re: Fwd: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aq
    Generally, Convicts will try to stay out of the way of larger
    Cichlids, but they do have to come out in the open to eat. If a
    Cichlid twice as long and 4 times its bulk unexpectedly turns on the
    Convict, it can inflict serious damage in short time, possibly even
    killing it. For this reason, I suggested lots of rocks and caves,
    but there are no guarantees trying to maintain two very unequal size
    Cichlids, with the larger ones being notoriously aggressive. The
    Firemouth's flaring does give it some advantage up to a point, but
    much of that is bluff, and you don't bluff a determined aggressive
    Cichlid such as a Green Terror and get away with it, especially if
    you're smaller. Am sorry to see you have never seen a Green Terror
    over 8". I've seen a number of them entered in the ACA conventions
    up to 12" and they are something to see if you can appreciate large
    Cichlids. There are several Cichlid sites you can go to which
    describes them up to this size. There are actually 3 varieties of
    Green Terrors, by the way; each variety varying somewhat in the
    intensity of color in the fin margins. The true Aequidens rivulatus
    gets to about 8" (about the size you've seen) and generally has
    yellow to orange margins/borders in the fins. A. cf rivulatus "White
    Edge" gets to 10" (margins are white) and A. cf rivulatus "Red Edge"
    gets to 12" (has red-edged fins). This last Green Terror is also
    called the Gold Saum ("saum", in German means "edge"). Ray
    \ --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
    <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
    > in my experience the convicts will stay out of teh way
    > of the larger cichlids, and the firemouths flare out
    > generally help it to avoid getting beaten up. i have
    > never seen a green terror over about 8 inches, and
    > both types have the orange or yellow stripes.
    > paul
    > --- sevenspringss@w... wrote:
    >
    > > You sure do like the more aggressive Cichlids! That
    > > is an interesting
    > > selection, though. With lots of rocks, open-end
    > > caves and driftwood, this should
    > > work especially if you get them small (all around
    > > the same size) and grow them
    > > up together. The Dempsey can get to 10"-11" and the
    > > Salvini can get to about
    > > 10". There are at least two species (or
    > > sub-species) of Green Terrors. One
    > > gets to around 6 1/2" and another to 12" or more. I
    > > believe its the last one
    > > that has the nice orange trim around the outer edges
    > > of its fins. I don't think
    > > you'll be able to keep the Convict and Firemouth in
    > > there when the rest get
    > > bigger, although given enough cover they may all get
    > > along. The female Convict
    > > may get to 4" and the Firemouth will to to around 6
    > > 1/2" max. Ray
    > >
    >
    > > ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822
    > > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
    > > From: "Dan & Theresa" <dtmergl@c...>
    > > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 09:38:56 -0500
    > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group
    > > name soon to be AquaticLife ] 90g stocking
    > >
    > > I think we've decided against an oscar for the new
    > > 90g. I'm not interested in pairs/breeding, so would
    > > the following combination work as far as
    > > compatability:
    > >
    > > salvini
    > > green terror
    > > Jack Dempsey
    > >
    > > I also currently have a 1.5" female con and ~3.5"
    > > male firemouth I was hoping to add to this tank.
    > >
    > > What are my options as far as bottom feeders other
    > > than common plecs?
    > >
    > > And are there any dither fish that would be safe
    > > with this setup?
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > __________________________________
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    > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
    > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7752 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/11/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        Brackish can vary from 20/80 to 80/20 because brackish areas start close to a freshwater source and go all the way to nearly the ocean.  Which side the fish comes from determines the level.
     
    Patrick, the American Fish Guy
     
    Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
    About my tanks:  
    29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
    -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
    -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
    -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
    10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
    -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
    -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
    -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
    -------Original Message-------
    brackish water is 20% saltwater 80% fresh water, last
    i heard. i am not 100% certain on that because i don't
    keep brackish...only fresh and salt. but i do know
    that the best (or easiest) way to get the correct
    salinity is to make salt water which has a specific
    gravity of 1.023 optimally which is about 1/3-1/2 c
    salt per gallon of water.  if the correct ratio is 4-1
    then make 1 gallon salt for every 4 galons of fresh
    (use a hydrometer to test specific gravity 12-20
    dollars)
    paul
    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7753 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/11/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    "OK, thanks."
        No problem.
     
    "What about adding some zebra danios?"
        That would push you over. :)
     
    Patrick, the American Fish Guy
     
    Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
    About my tanks:  
    29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
    -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
    -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
    -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
    10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
    -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
    -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
    -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7754 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/11/2005
    Subject: Food recomendations for Tropical Fish?
    Hi,


    I have some Wild Australian Guppies (17 or so) and 8 Tiger Barbs in a
    250 litre tank.

    I'm currently feeding them gold fish flakes but the flakes smell bad
    after 15minutes in the water, what would you suggest i feed the fish?


    At the petshop the owner demonstrated some white fish food pallets and
    the fish seemed to go crazy for them. Other people feed there fish what
    looks like brown dog food pallets.


    What should i buy next time?

    =Nick
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7755 From: joequality1980 Date: 1/11/2005
    Subject: Los Angeles LFS
    I posted 8 local fish shops the Los Angeles area, specifically the
    Westside and San Fernando Valley. All are good places to check out
    and support.
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7756 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/11/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    Anything that says Tropical fish food.   Nothing that says Goldfish food. 
     I'd probally tend to stick with flake for the guppies sake. I don't know how big the Guppies from Ausie get but what I've seen most guppies don't get real big. The pellets might cause them a problem.
     
    In a message dated 1/11/2005 4:07:36 PM Central Standard Time, nicolas.munro@... writes:
    At the petshop the owner demonstrated some white fish food pallets and
    the fish seemed to go crazy for them. Other people feed there fish what
    looks like brown dog food pallets.


    What should i buy next time?

    =Nick
     
    Robert
    NE Indiana
    USA
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7757 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/11/2005
    Subject: wine about ph testers
    I second this oppion, i have trouble determining if its 7.3 or 7.8 in
    those color charts,
    if any one knows of a numeric PH tester please let me know.

    Do those digital PH testers work ?



    > Hi, Thanks for the welcome. I'm beginning to think you
    > need to be a scienctist to keep an aquarium. LOL I
    > lost a goldfish yesterday and another one this
    > rning. I was told to check my ph which I did with
    > one of those strips. According to one stripe, it was
    > very high so I went to the store to get something to
    > lower it. The petshop gave me a fizz tablet to correct
    > the problem and it came with another test stripe with
    > dir. to test before using. This time the stripe showed
    > the ph was in the neutral range. So, both goldfish
    > died within 24hrs. but the algae eater and mollies are
    > doing great. Are there test kits that have numerical
    > ranges instead of color charts? Thanks
    > Anne
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7758 From: Sally and Paul Graham Date: 1/11/2005
    Subject: Essential test kits?
    I am setting up a 50 gallon, community tank (tropical), what test
    kits are essential for cycling and then for everyday running of the
    tank? Thanks in advance.
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7759 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/11/2005
    Subject: Re: cycling
    Most hobbyist can get away with using a master test kit.
    it measures ammonia, nitrites, ph, hardness, and something else.. can't remeber off the top of my head..
     
     
    Fishless Cycling Made Easy  A very easy step by step process to cycling your tank without fish... No real FAST way to cycle unless you have other established tanks, you can take the filters off of.
     
    Once your tank is in balance you don't have to test everyday. you can get away with every other week, or longer. I usually don't check water unless i notice something out of ordinary. But I'd recommend checking your water every week for 6 month or so, to make sure you don't have any serious spikes while your tank seeds itself..
     
    rob
    NE Indiana
    USA
     
     
     
     
     
    In a message dated 1/12/2005 12:53:12 AM Central Standard Time, salandpaul@... writes:

    I am setting up a 50 gallon, community tank (tropical), what test
    kits are essential for cycling and then for everyday running of the
    tank? Thanks in advance.
     
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7760 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/12/2005
    Subject: Re: wine about ph testers
    I presume everyone knows about those electronic (battery operated) pH
    monitors which display with numeric (digital) display(?) If not, Drs
    Foster & Smith have them available ($49.99 to $199.99) if your lfs
    doesn't have them. That Fish Place carries them as well; but as you
    see, they are not cheap but they do work well. Some hobbyists do
    have trouble determining the shades of color in the vial, especially
    if they're new to it, but have you tried holding the vial up against
    a white background (piece of paper)? You can get a much better idea
    of the color this way. -
    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas
    Munro" <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
    >
    > I second this oppion, i have trouble determining if its 7.3 or
    7.8 in
    > those color charts,
    > if any one knows of a numeric PH tester please let me know.
    >
    > Do those digital PH testers work ?
    >
    >
    >
    > > Hi, Thanks for the welcome. I'm beginning to think you
    > > need to be a scienctist to keep an aquarium. LOL I
    > > lost a goldfish yesterday and another one this
    > > rning. I was told to check my ph which I did with
    > > one of those strips. According to one stripe, it was
    > > very high so I went to the store to get something to
    > > lower it. The petshop gave me a fizz tablet to correct
    > > the problem and it came with another test stripe with
    > > dir. to test before using. This time the stripe showed
    > > the ph was in the neutral range. So, both goldfish
    > > died within 24hrs. but the algae eater and mollies are
    > > doing great. Are there test kits that have numerical
    > > ranges instead of color charts? Thanks
    > > Anne
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7761 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/12/2005
    Subject: Re: Essential test kits?
    As already recommended, a master kit containing pH, ammonia, nitrite
    and hardness tests all in one kit is very convenient (especially
    for "all-around" use), and most useful during initial aquarium
    cycling when the ammonia will spike out at around 7 to 10 days with
    the nitrite spiking out after 2 weeks. For general maintenance and
    to keep tabs on things, at least pH and ammonia test kits are
    essential if you don't want to spend the money on the larger kit. -
    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Sally and
    Paul Graham" <salandpaul@o...> wrote:
    >
    > I am setting up a 50 gallon, community tank (tropical), what test
    > kits are essential for cycling and then for everyday running of the
    > tank? Thanks in advance.
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7762 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/12/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    I have recently set up two new aquariums a 10 gallon community and a 100 gallon African Cichlids.  For the 10 gallon - I added water - allowed temp to stabilize - then added a full load of fish and started using the Seachem product called Stability.   This worked faultlessly - tank was fully cycled after one week.   Had a slight ammonia spike that was gone in less than 24 hours.   Worked very well.
     
    Did the same with the 100 gallon - only used Bio-Spira - and not a completely full load of fish - but added full load over several weeks.  Used the Stability product whenever I added additional fish.  Again, only registered a slight Ammonia spike and only for one day.  Bio-Spira basically does a one day cycle of the tank.   Sounds a little incredible - but the stuff worked for me!  
     
    Both of these tanks have now been up for about 2 months.  I lost one Emperor Tetra in the 10 Gallon the day after I added it - think it was just a sick fish to start with - not related to the tank.  Otherwise no losses (well, except for the Emerald Rasbora that disappeared after a water change - why is my cat smiling?  I think it jumped out of the tank...).  I have had no losses on the 100 gallon - and have it stocked with some awesome Africans - expensive but beautiful fish.   Both of these tanks have a full load, with the African being overstocked (and overfiltered).
     
    Just another perspective.....
     
    Al 
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7763 From: ranginute Date: 1/12/2005
    Subject: Coming home to freshwater
    Hello all. A newbie to this board but an oldy in the hobby. I have
    kept aquariums for about the last 30 years. My dad had aquariums
    since before I was born.

    For the past ten years or so, I have been wholly dedicated to
    saltwater and the frustrations that go with that. I just relocated
    to Dallas and as I did not want to move live fish, I sold all of my
    fish, critters, and live rock to someone.

    Now, I am dying to get going again and have decided to start with
    freshwater fish in my only remaining tank...a 44 hex.

    It has been so long since I kept freshwater, I am rusty in the
    startup procedures.

    I will not be using tap water in the tanks...I learned that lesson a
    long time ago....I have a complete Reverse Osmosis filtering setup.
    Here is the first question: What is the cycle time of water of this
    sort and what type of additives are required to bring it up to spec?

    Are there any Discus fans on this board? What is the correct
    salinity of Discus water (Brackish)? I have been doing some research
    on the web and I see many recommendations for "staining" the water a
    little with peat for a more realistic environment.

    I intend to attempt to breed these in the future and I am looking for
    a very natural environment for this tank. Any discussion on this
    would help. Also, any contacts in the Dallas / Fort Worth area would
    be appreciated....especially breeders.

    I refuse to pay the prices they are charging for the Watley Discus.

    Thanks

    Randy
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7764 From: Ron F Date: 1/12/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    My name is Ron and I am located in the DFW area and I
    can let you know where all the places are to buy the
    fish you want and for cheap. Also I run a group
    called Aquaticdreamz it is a trading slash selling and
    buying group for aquariums and everything that goes
    with them. If you are interested than feel free to
    join.

    Ron
    --- ranginute <rw9673@...> wrote:

    >
    >
    > Hello all. A newbie to this board but an oldy in the
    > hobby. I have
    > kept aquariums for about the last 30 years. My dad
    > had aquariums
    > since before I was born.
    >
    > For the past ten years or so, I have been wholly
    > dedicated to
    > saltwater and the frustrations that go with that. I
    > just relocated
    > to Dallas and as I did not want to move live fish, I
    > sold all of my
    > fish, critters, and live rock to someone.
    >
    > Now, I am dying to get going again and have decided
    > to start with
    > freshwater fish in my only remaining tank...a 44
    > hex.
    >
    > It has been so long since I kept freshwater, I am
    > rusty in the
    > startup procedures.
    >
    > I will not be using tap water in the tanks...I
    > learned that lesson a
    > long time ago....I have a complete Reverse Osmosis
    > filtering setup.
    > Here is the first question: What is the cycle time
    > of water of this
    > sort and what type of additives are required to
    > bring it up to spec?
    >
    > Are there any Discus fans on this board? What is
    > the correct
    > salinity of Discus water (Brackish)? I have been
    > doing some research
    > on the web and I see many recommendations for
    > "staining" the water a
    > little with peat for a more realistic environment.
    >
    > I intend to attempt to breed these in the future and
    > I am looking for
    > a very natural environment for this tank. Any
    > discussion on this
    > would help. Also, any contacts in the Dallas / Fort
    > Worth area would
    > be appreciated....especially breeders.
    >
    > I refuse to pay the prices they are charging for the
    > Watley Discus.
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Randy
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >




    __________________________________
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    Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
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    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7765 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/12/2005
    Subject: Re: Coming home to freshwater
    Randy, A previous post today by Al recommended using a product by
    Seachem called "Stability" in combination with Bio-Spira; check out
    his post. He states that tanks can be cycled in 24 hours using this
    method. Can't say myself as this is new to me. In general it
    usually takes between 4 and 6 weeks to cycle a tank, type of water
    having little to do with it. Main purpose of course is to establish
    your nitrifying bacteria to the extent that you have near 0 ammonia
    and nitrites. Discus can tolerate a good amount of salt without
    distress, but the addition of salt is not necessary (nor desirable)
    in the least for general maintenance, nor breeding. Some hobbyists
    use black water tonic with good results, although again, not really
    needed. Your use of R/O water should be ideal for them, but it does
    have to be cut with some of your tap water for some trace minerals.
    Not knowing the parameters of your tap water, I can't say how much to
    mix although you might want to start out with at least 10% to 20% tap
    water -- you'll have to see. No fish will do well for any length of
    time in pure R/O water. Best bet is to get a conductivity meter and
    check as you mix your water. You'll need a reading of no more
    (preferably somewhat less) than 90 Microseimens for the eggs to
    properly develop. Breeding temperature - 86. Normal maintenance
    temperature - 82. Raising fry/juveniles - 86. Sorry, I don't live
    in Texas so can't help you with supplying fish and its too cold to
    ship. Best of Luck, Ray
    \
    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "ranginute"
    <rw9673@m...> wrote:
    >
    >
    > Hello all. A newbie to this board but an oldy in the hobby. I have
    > kept aquariums for about the last 30 years. My dad had aquariums
    > since before I was born.
    >
    > For the past ten years or so, I have been wholly dedicated to
    > saltwater and the frustrations that go with that. I just relocated
    > to Dallas and as I did not want to move live fish, I sold all of my
    > fish, critters, and live rock to someone.
    >
    > Now, I am dying to get going again and have decided to start with
    > freshwater fish in my only remaining tank...a 44 hex.
    >
    > It has been so long since I kept freshwater, I am rusty in the
    > startup procedures.
    >
    > I will not be using tap water in the tanks...I learned that lesson
    a
    > long time ago....I have a complete Reverse Osmosis filtering
    setup.
    > Here is the first question: What is the cycle time of water of
    this
    > sort and what type of additives are required to bring it up to spec?
    >
    > Are there any Discus fans on this board? What is the correct
    > salinity of Discus water (Brackish)? I have been doing some
    research
    > on the web and I see many recommendations for "staining" the water
    a
    > little with peat for a more realistic environment.
    >
    > I intend to attempt to breed these in the future and I am looking
    for
    > a very natural environment for this tank. Any discussion on this
    > would help. Also, any contacts in the Dallas / Fort Worth area
    would
    > be appreciated....especially breeders.
    >
    > I refuse to pay the prices they are charging for the Watley Discus.
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Randy
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7766 From: Darcy Kane Date: 1/12/2005
    Subject: muck
     
    Hi all,
    I posted awhile back about my classroom 55 gallon tank complete with smallmouthed bass.  Well the bass did very well until he decided to take a break for freedom and launched himself out of the tiny open space by my filter.  The rest of the tank is covered.  We have ice on our lakes now so I switched to a couple of, hopefully, bombproof comets.  I have two 4 inch comets in a 55 gallon tank.  The tank has an outside filter of recommended size and I do a partial water change each week.  Can anyone tell me why nasty orange brown slim grows on everything and what I can do to stop it or slow it down?  The fish seem happy as as pigs in well you know, but it looks yucky.  BTW the water stays clear it's just the slime EWWWWWW.
    Darcy Kane
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7767 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 1/12/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    Darcy,  Sorry to hear about the "suicide", but at least now you know you can successfully keep this type of fish.  Maybe replace him, come Spring(?).  The orange/brown stuff may be a type of algae.  Hard to say without actually seeing it.  This type of algae grows in dimmer lighting, when there are excess nutrients in the water.  Try making some water changes and cut back on the feeding.  Even though water changing can sometimes stimulate the growth of algae, you have to get rid of that nutrient laden water.  Sparser feeding should control it.  Ray
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7768 From: Audrey Archer Date: 1/12/2005
    Subject: Re: new brackish tank
    Thanks, Steve, Paul, and Patrick, for all of the info. More questions!!!

    Paul, I know I am way overstocked... I only wanted a few. I am gradually getting rid of excess Endler's fry by feeding them to my Convicts. When the Convicts get big enough, I may feed some mommies to them as well, and keep just a couple in my 2.5 gallon. Guess I should have only added males to my planted tank. ;-)

    Also, from your numbers of 1/3 to 1/2 c of salt per gallon for full salt water, and the 20/80 ratio for a starting brackish tank (I understand that as dwarf puffers mature they come to need more salt and might even eventually need a marine tank?) it sounds like my guess of 1 cup for ten gallons to start wasn't too far off, if I get a young one.

    Steve, maybe I will invest in some sea salt for any water changes...? And what is the difference in a hydrometer and a refractometer for measuring spec grav? Why are the latter so much more expensive? (More precise?) The hydrometers I saw in my fishy catalogues ($7.50 to $25.00, and the most expensive one doesn't read below 1.018) don't claim to go low enough for reading 1.005, or else don't say at all... whereas the ads for the refractometers (sale price of $43, reduced from $60, up to $110!) do say they start at 1.000 and go up to 1.070. I am about a 45 minute drive away from a decent fish store, so... I will need to call him and make sure he has exactly what I need before I make that trip.

    Have any of you ever used these "EcoComplete" substrates that come packed in liquid with live bacteria and are also supposed to help keep your pH and minerals stable? Because although it did wipe out the ammonia in my tank in three days with no rise in nitrites, I have noticed that the Convict tank, which started out at a higher pH and KH, has dropped now that a few fish are in there. I wanted this type of substrate because, even though my well water is 8.0 to 8.5 pH, I found that the nitogen cycle tends to acidify the water, but apparently EcoComplete doesn't work well to keep the pH stable during the cycle. Probably not a big deal, that it dropped, since I have Convicts... those things can probably survive all of my stupid beginner mistakes... but I added some baking soda and Epsom salt and freshwater salt, anyway. (If they do die, I will get the fish I had REALLY wanted... Julies and Neolamps.)

    Audrey
    Southeast Georgia
    Only keeping fish indoors since April 2004

    2.5 gal (empty) hospice
    10 gal planted freshwater, Endler's (50-75?? mostly fry) and Golden White Clouds (5)
    10 gal empty brackish
    20 gal with 3 young Convicts (and about 20 fry)
    Small pre-formed garden pond (more than five years old, no fish in the pond right now, just snails and tree frogs and other similar critters breed here - white clouds were in here until temps got too high; we had a few koi and goldfish in it before, wildlife got them)

    > Message: 20
    Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 13:27:49 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
    From: "Patrick, The American Fish Guy" <americanfishguy@...>
    Subject: Re: re: Biological filter - new subject brackish tank

    Brackish can vary from 20/80 to 80/20 because brackish areas start close
    to a freshwater source and go all the way to nearly the ocean. Which side
    the fish comes from determines the level.

    Patrick, the American Fish Guy

    Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
    Nitrogen Cycle
    About my tanks:
    29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
    -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2
    home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one
    female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
    -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns,
    hornwort, and amazon swords.
    -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
    10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
    -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
    -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
    -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power
    filter.
    -------Original Message-------
    brackish water is 20% saltwater 80% fresh water, last
    i heard. i am not 100% certain on that because i don't
    keep brackish...only fresh and salt. but i do know
    that the best (or easiest) way to get the correct
    salinity is to make salt water which has a specific
    gravity of 1.023 optimally which is about 1/3-1/2 c
    salt per gallon of water. if the correct ratio is 4-1
    then make 1 gallon salt for every 4 galons of fresh
    (use a hydrometer to test specific gravity 12-20
    dollars)
    paul
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7769 From: Aranel Date: 1/12/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    Oh yeah. I've had one of those before, he was a cute little guy. It
    really depends on which fish look the best. The only place I can get
    fish is Wal-mart, and the past few times I've been all the goldfish
    looked pretty poor.

    -Ara

    > you may want to go more toward a black moor, they stay
    > a bit smaller than orandas
    > --- Aranel <aranel@...> wrote:
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7770 From: kanedarcy Date: 1/12/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    Ray,
    Thanks for writing. We will definitely try for another bass, he was
    fantastic and very friendly once he caught on the the routine. I
    actually miss him.

    The
    > orange/brown stuff may be a type of algae. Hard to say without
    actually
    > seeing it. This type of algae grows in dimmer lighting, when
    there are excess
    > nutrients in the water.

    Sounds like the stuff. I am probably over feeding where there are
    just two fish in the tank and they are always begging for food. And
    the tank in at school so the light is only on for short periods of
    time. I thank you for the advice but my very well fed fish probably
    won't ;>)
    Darcy
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7771 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/12/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    How long do the digital pH testers work for / last?

    Can you get electronic testers which detect other things as well?


    >Message: 7
    > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:25:02 -0000
    > From: "Ray Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...>
    > Subject: Re: wine about ph testers
    > I presume everyone knows about those electronic (battery operated) pH

    > monitors which display with numeric (digital) display(?) If not, Drs

    > Foster & Smith have them available ($49.99 to $199.99) if your lfs
    > doesn't have them. That Fish Place carries them as well; but as you

    > see, they are not cheap but they do work well. Some hobbyists do
    > have trouble determining the shades of color in the vial, especially

    > if they're new to it, but have you tried holding the vial up against

    > a white background (piece of paper)? You can get a much better idea

    > of the color this way.
    -
    > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas
    > Munro" <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
    >
    > I second this oppion, i have trouble determining if its 7.3 or
    7.8 in
    > those color charts,
    > if any one knows of a numeric PH tester please let me know.
    >
    > Do those digital PH testers work ?
    >
    > > Hi, Thanks for the welcome. I'm beginning to think you
    > > need to be a scienctist to keep an aquarium. LOL I
    > > lost a goldfish yesterday and another one this
    > > rning. I was told to check my ph which I did with
    > > one of those strips. According to one stripe, it was
    > > very high so I went to the store to get something to
    > > lower it. The petshop gave me a fizz tablet to correct
    > > the problem and it came with another test stripe with
    > > dir. to test before using. This time the stripe showed
    > > the ph was in the neutral range. So, both goldfish
    > > died within 24hrs. but the algae eater and mollies are
    > > doing great. Are there test kits that have numerical
    > > ranges instead of color charts? Thanks
    > > Anne
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7772 From: Anne Date: 1/12/2005
    Subject: Water woes
    Well, I finally threw up my hands and took my water to
    the Aquarium store to have them test it. The amonia
    was at the dangerous for fish level. They told me to
    vacumn the gravel and do a 50% water change, then
    bring it to retest in a few days. I did what they said
    and for a few hours the tank gooded great, very clear,
    smelled fine, the 2 mollies were happy. Now it's
    clouding up again and the amonia level is still high.
    Any suggestions? (aside from sticking to beta's. My
    two males live quite happily in their own 2 and 1/2
    and 5 gal. aquariums. Neither aquarium has a filter.)
    Thanks
    Anne

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    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7773 From: Ron F Date: 1/12/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    you also want to check your nitrates algae feeds on
    nitrates.

    Ron
    --- sevenspringss@... wrote:

    > Darcy, Sorry to hear about the "suicide", but at
    > least now you know you can
    > successfully keep this type of fish. Maybe replace
    > him, come Spring(?). The
    > orange/brown stuff may be a type of algae. Hard to
    > say without actually
    > seeing it. This type of algae grows in dimmer
    > lighting, when there are excess
    > nutrients in the water. Try making some water
    > changes and cut back on the
    > feeding. Even though water changing can sometimes
    > stimulate the growth of algae, you
    > have to get rid of that nutrient laden water.
    > Sparser feeding should control
    > it. Ray
    >




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    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7774 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    Ron, Thanks for spelling that out. While I did mention excess
    nutrients, some people may not realize that nitrates = plant
    nutrients; exactly what I was getting at. Ray
    \--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Ron F
    <aquaticdreamz@y...> wrote:
    > you also want to check your nitrates algae feeds on
    > nitrates.
    >
    > Ron
    > --- sevenspringss@w... wrote:
    >
    > > Darcy, Sorry to hear about the "suicide", but at
    > > least now you know you can
    > > successfully keep this type of fish. Maybe replace
    > > him, come Spring(?). The
    > > orange/brown stuff may be a type of algae. Hard to
    > > say without actually
    > > seeing it. This type of algae grows in dimmer
    > > lighting, when there are excess
    > > nutrients in the water. Try making some water
    > > changes and cut back on the
    > > feeding. Even though water changing can sometimes
    > > stimulate the growth of algae, you
    > > have to get rid of that nutrient laden water.
    > > Sparser feeding should control
    > > it. Ray
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > __________________________________
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    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7775 From: paul helms Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    add stress zyme or fritz zyme, every 2 days for the
    next 2 weeks, and only do very small water
    chnages-5%weekly. the cloudiness is the bacteria
    trying to establish
    --- Anne <md_gustoby@...> wrote:

    > Well, I finally threw up my hands and took my water
    > to
    > the Aquarium store to have them test it. The amonia
    > was at the dangerous for fish level. They told me to
    > vacumn the gravel and do a 50% water change, then
    > bring it to retest in a few days. I did what they
    > said
    > and for a few hours the tank gooded great, very
    > clear,
    > smelled fine, the 2 mollies were happy. Now it's
    > clouding up again and the amonia level is still
    > high.
    > Any suggestions? (aside from sticking to beta's. My
    > two males live quite happily in their own 2 and 1/2
    > and 5 gal. aquariums. Neither aquarium has a
    > filter.)
    > Thanks
    > Anne
    >
    > __________________________________________________
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    >




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    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7776 From: paul helms Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    they have to be reset for neutral wioth distilled
    water occasionally, but last years
    --- Nicolas Munro <nicolas.munro@...>
    wrote:

    >
    >
    > How long do the digital pH testers work for / last?
    >
    >
    > Can you get electronic testers which detect other
    > things as well?
    >
    >
    > >Message: 7
    > > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:25:02 -0000
    > > From: "Ray Wetzel"
    > <sevenspringss@...>
    > > Subject: Re: wine about ph testers
    > > I presume everyone knows about those electronic
    > (battery operated) pH
    >
    > > monitors which display with numeric (digital)
    > display(?) If not, Drs
    >
    > > Foster & Smith have them available ($49.99 to
    > $199.99) if your lfs
    > > doesn't have them. That Fish Place carries them
    > as well; but as you
    >
    > > see, they are not cheap but they do work well.
    > Some hobbyists do
    > > have trouble determining the shades of color in
    > the vial, especially
    >
    > > if they're new to it, but have you tried holding
    > the vial up against
    >
    > > a white background (piece of paper)? You can get
    > a much better idea
    >
    > > of the color this way.
    >
    > -
    > > --- In
    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
    > "Nicolas
    > > Munro" <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
    > >
    > > I second this oppion, i have trouble determining
    > if its 7.3 or
    > 7.8 in
    > > those color charts,
    > > if any one knows of a numeric PH tester please let
    > me know.
    > >
    > > Do those digital PH testers work ?
    > >
    > > > Hi, Thanks for the welcome. I'm beginning to
    > think you
    > > > need to be a scienctist to keep an aquarium. LOL
    > I
    > > > lost a goldfish yesterday and another one this
    > > > rning. I was told to check my ph which I did
    > with
    > > > one of those strips. According to one stripe, it
    > was
    > > > very high so I went to the store to get
    > something to
    > > > lower it. The petshop gave me a fizz tablet to
    > correct
    > > > the problem and it came with another test stripe
    > with
    > > > dir. to test before using. This time the stripe
    > showed
    > > > the ph was in the neutral range. So, both
    > goldfish
    > > > died within 24hrs. but the algae eater and
    > mollies are
    > > > doing great. Are there test kits that have
    > numerical
    > > > ranges instead of color charts? Thanks
    > > > Anne
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >




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    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7777 From: paul helms Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    refractometer is more technical and more difficult to
    use.....it is not only sed for salininty i beliveve.
    you do not need to measure salinity that low, as you
    are supposed to make salt water (1.023) and mix it by
    proportion.
    paul
    --- Audrey Archer <arch1574@...> wrote:

    > Thanks, Steve, Paul, and Patrick, for all of the
    > info. More questions!!!
    >
    > Paul, I know I am way overstocked... I only wanted
    > a few. I am gradually getting rid of excess Endler's
    > fry by feeding them to my Convicts. When the
    > Convicts get big enough, I may feed some mommies to
    > them as well, and keep just a couple in my 2.5
    > gallon. Guess I should have only added males to my
    > planted tank. ;-)
    >
    > Also, from your numbers of 1/3 to 1/2 c of salt per
    > gallon for full salt water, and the 20/80 ratio for
    > a starting brackish tank (I understand that as dwarf
    > puffers mature they come to need more salt and might
    > even eventually need a marine tank?) it sounds like
    > my guess of 1 cup for ten gallons to start wasn't
    > too far off, if I get a young one.
    >
    > Steve, maybe I will invest in some sea salt for any
    > water changes...? And what is the difference in a
    > hydrometer and a refractometer for measuring spec
    > grav? Why are the latter so much more expensive?
    > (More precise?) The hydrometers I saw in my fishy
    > catalogues ($7.50 to $25.00, and the most expensive
    > one doesn't read below 1.018) don't claim to go low
    > enough for reading 1.005, or else don't say at
    > all... whereas the ads for the refractometers (sale
    > price of $43, reduced from $60, up to $110!) do say
    > they start at 1.000 and go up to 1.070. I am about a
    > 45 minute drive away from a decent fish store, so...
    > I will need to call him and make sure he has exactly
    > what I need before I make that trip.
    >
    > Have any of you ever used these "EcoComplete"
    > substrates that come packed in liquid with live
    > bacteria and are also supposed to help keep your pH
    > and minerals stable? Because although it did wipe
    > out the ammonia in my tank in three days with no
    > rise in nitrites, I have noticed that the Convict
    > tank, which started out at a higher pH and KH, has
    > dropped now that a few fish are in there. I wanted
    > this type of substrate because, even though my well
    > water is 8.0 to 8.5 pH, I found that the nitogen
    > cycle tends to acidify the water, but apparently
    > EcoComplete doesn't work well to keep the pH stable
    > during the cycle. Probably not a big deal, that it
    > dropped, since I have Convicts... those things can
    > probably survive all of my stupid beginner
    > mistakes... but I added some baking soda and Epsom
    > salt and freshwater salt, anyway. (If they do die, I
    > will get the fish I had REALLY wanted... Julies and
    > Neolamps.)
    >
    > Audrey
    > Southeast Georgia
    > Only keeping fish indoors since April 2004
    >
    > 2.5 gal (empty) hospice
    > 10 gal planted freshwater, Endler's (50-75?? mostly
    > fry) and Golden White Clouds (5)
    > 10 gal empty brackish
    > 20 gal with 3 young Convicts (and about 20 fry)
    > Small pre-formed garden pond (more than five years
    > old, no fish in the pond right now, just snails and
    > tree frogs and other similar critters breed here -
    > white clouds were in here until temps got too high;
    > we had a few koi and goldfish in it before, wildlife
    > got them)
    >
    > > Message: 20
    > Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 13:27:49 -0600 (Central
    > Standard Time)
    > From: "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
    > <americanfishguy@...>
    > Subject: Re: re: Biological filter - new subject
    > brackish tank
    >
    > Brackish can vary from 20/80 to 80/20 because
    > brackish areas start close
    > to a freshwater source and go all the way to nearly
    > the ocean. Which side
    > the fish comes from determines the level.
    >
    > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
    >
    > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
    > Cycle.
    > Nitrogen Cycle
    > About my tanks:
    > 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
    > -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
    > skirt tetras, 2
    > home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli
    > cories, 1 pleco, one
    > female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
    > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
    > banana plants, java ferns,
    > hornwort, and amazon swords.
    > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
    > 30-60 power filter.
    > 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
    > -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
    > -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
    > amazon sword.
    > -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
    > gravel, Regent 10-15 power
    > filter.
    > -------Original Message-------
    > brackish water is 20% saltwater 80% fresh water,
    > last
    > i heard. i am not 100% certain on that because i
    > don't
    > keep brackish...only fresh and salt. but i do know
    > that the best (or easiest) way to get the correct
    > salinity is to make salt water which has a specific
    > gravity of 1.023 optimally which is about 1/3-1/2 c
    > salt per gallon of water. if the correct ratio is
    > 4-1
    > then make 1 gallon salt for every 4 galons of fresh
    > (use a hydrometer to test specific gravity 12-20
    > dollars)
    > paul
    >
    >
    >




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    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7778 From: Mary Richardson Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Ichthyophthirius
    Hi

    I am new to your list, and I am very new at having goldfish, this morning I
    notice that my goldfish had white spots on them. My husband pet store and
    found out that it is Ichthyophthirius. What is this and how do goldfish get
    this?

    Thanks
    Mary

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    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7779 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    Electronic testers can also be found for conductivity/total disolved
    solids, temperature, salinity/specific gravity, residual ozone/CO2
    and oxygen.
    \ --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas
    Munro" <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
    >
    >
    > How long do the digital pH testers work for / last?
    >
    > Can you get electronic testers which detect other things as well?
    >
    >
    > >Message: 7
    > > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:25:02 -0000
    > > From: "Ray Wetzel" <sevenspringss@w...>
    > > Subject: Re: wine about ph testers
    > > I presume everyone knows about those electronic (battery
    operated) pH
    >
    > > monitors which display with numeric (digital) display(?) If not,
    Drs
    >
    > > Foster & Smith have them available ($49.99 to $199.99) if your
    lfs
    > > doesn't have them. That Fish Place carries them as well; but as
    you
    >
    > > see, they are not cheap but they do work well. Some hobbyists do
    > > have trouble determining the shades of color in the vial,
    especially
    >
    > > if they're new to it, but have you tried holding the vial up
    against
    >
    > > a white background (piece of paper)? You can get a much better
    idea
    >
    > > of the color this
    way.
    > -
    > > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas
    > > Munro" <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
    > >
    > > I second this oppion, i have trouble determining if its 7.3 or
    > 7.8 in
    > > those color charts,
    > > if any one knows of a numeric PH tester please let me know.
    > >
    > > Do those digital PH testers work ?
    > >
    > > > Hi, Thanks for the welcome. I'm beginning to think you
    > > > need to be a scienctist to keep an aquarium. LOL I
    > > > lost a goldfish yesterday and another one this
    > > > rning. I was told to check my ph which I did with
    > > > one of those strips. According to one stripe, it was
    > > > very high so I went to the store to get something to
    > > > lower it. The petshop gave me a fizz tablet to correct
    > > > the problem and it came with another test stripe with
    > > > dir. to test before using. This time the stripe showed
    > > > the ph was in the neutral range. So, both goldfish
    > > > died within 24hrs. but the algae eater and mollies are
    > > > doing great. Are there test kits that have numerical
    > > > ranges instead of color charts? Thanks
    > > > Anne
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7780 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Ich...
    You have "Ich"
     
     
    I'd chose one of these medications( make sure it says cures ich)  and use it by the instructions on the box
    Ich is a common parasite that effects all types of fish.  It could have been brought on by water quality,stress,injury, all most anything. Your fish could have been effected when you got them. Its very common.
     
    They have all kinds of medication on the market for taking care of it..
     
    rob
    NE Indiana
    USA
     
     
    In a message dated 1/13/2005 12:05:34 PM Central Standard Time, maryrich@... writes:
    Hi

    I am new to your list, and I am very new at having goldfish, this morning I
    notice that my goldfish had white spots on them. My husband pet store and
    found out that it is Ichthyophthirius. What is this and how do goldfish get
    this?

    Thanks
    Mary
     
    Robert
    NE Indiana
    USA
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7781 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        If it is ich, what should you do about it?  Should you medicate the fish?  Should you use salt?  How warm should the water be?  This article will discuss this problem.
        First you should make sure it is ich.  A lot of people think ich is a general term for any fish disease.  Ich is a specific parasite (or group of them).  If a fish has ich, it will look like a grain of salt on it.  There could be one spot, or several.
        What should you do to get rid of ich?  My theory is that you should never try to get rid of ich in your tank.  That would require a full sterilization of the tank and fish, meaning radiation/heat or bleach to kill all living organisms in the tank.  Why even bother if you are going to have to kill the fish.  I suspect, based on what I have read and experienced, that all tanks have ich living in them in some number.  They normally can't get a foot hold on a healthy fish, so they don't multiply very much.  When something happens to weaken a fish, the ich is finally able to get that foot hold.  The stress that weakens a fish can be related to the nitrogen cycle, moving a new fish into the tank, or being chased by another fish.
        So what can you do?  First you should remove the source of stress.  If there is an aggressive fish, separate that fish from the others.  If it is caused by water quality issues, get those under control through water changes.  If the fish has just been moved into the tank, there isn't much you can do for it other than make sure the other two sources of stress are taken care of.  I don't like ich medicine.  I have had limited success with them.  I suspect the reason is that I was using them to treat the symptom (ich) when I should have been treating the real problem (poor water quality).  On the other hand, I have had great success with water changes, turning the heat to 83-84°F, and adding 1 teaspoon of salt for each 5 gallons.  The usefulness of salt is controversial, and I have had success with just water changes and turning up the heat. 
     
    Patrick, the American Fish Guy
     
    Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
    About my tanks:  
    29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
    -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
    -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
    -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
    10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
    -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
    -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
    -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7782 From: Miranda Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: new and ? about green water
    Hi group, I am smrtlauf and I am new here. You can call me smrt or
    smrtlauf or some people call me Miranda too, i really dont care..as my
    dad says just don't call me late for supper.

    Anyway, I'm relatively new to the aquatic world, but not new to the
    veterinary field. I am 23 years old and in Argosy University -Twin
    Cities veterinary technology program. I went to the University of
    Minnesota for four year as an animal science major but my grades
    werent the best so I opted for vet tech. I worked for 5 years, at my
    hometown in western Wisconsin, at a mixed practice veterinary clinic.
    I learned a lot from that.

    My current collection of pets include a dog-Thumper, a cat- Alyssa
    --these two are currently with my parents, and with me I have 4
    gerbils a hermit crab and fish. As for fish, I have 3 white cloud
    minnows and two Cory's. We call the minnows "the zales" and the
    Cory's "the kori's" I know not real original.

    ok now on to my question....My roommate and I have had this aquarium
    running since October, put the fish in early december. It was a
    battle for awhile with the ammonia level but we finally got it down.

    We added some aquatic plants a few weeks ago, recently they have been
    growing like weeds but they and the fish are healthy and i think they
    have helped the ammonia level. We didn't think much of it though.
    Last week I had to go to my home in wisconsin before we left we added
    a small 3 day weekend block. When we came home the tank was green!
    The fish are alive and healthy, the plants are still growing but the
    water is lime green and very hard to see through. I've taken the
    plants out, I have changed the filter and checked it for any caught
    plant parts (it was time to do that anyway) and I have done a partial
    water change but its still very green. What would cause this and why
    isn't it going away? is something wrong with the filter or the hood?

    thanks for listening, hope to hear from u soon!
    smrtlauf aka Miranda
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7783 From: boy2coool Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Need help with my Balloon Molly
    I Got 4 new yellow Balloon Mollies. Strangely I saw one of the Male
    Balloon Molly chasing my female white Molly. Do Balloon Mollies
    interbreed with ordinary mollies? Am worried because my female white
    molly is pregnant, do I need to put her in a separate tank so that she
    doesn't get stressed by the male balloon molly. Somebody please reply.
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7784 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    All mollies are hybrids.... yes mollies will mate with other mollies.
    Platties, swordtails, and guppies I believe will all cross breed also, and hybrid
     
     
    In a message dated 1/13/2005 1:26:50 PM Central Standard Time, boy2coool@... writes:

    I Got 4 new yellow Balloon Mollies. Strangely I saw one of the Male
    Balloon Molly chasing my female white Molly. Do Balloon Mollies
    interbreed with ordinary mollies? Am worried because my female white
    molly is pregnant, do I need to put her in a separate tank so that she
    doesn't get stressed by the male balloon molly. Somebody please reply.
     
    Robert
    NE Indiana
    USA
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7785 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    wait a few days( for bacteria to regrow in filter)  and then vaccum your gravel where the feed block was. Sounds like the feed block dissolved before the fish could eat it. Same thing as over feeding your fish. 
    Put the plants back in, they will help use the extra nutrients in the water.
    do a few small waterchanges every other day this will also help clear up the water..  After everything in your tank gets back into order your water will clear up..
     
    * fish can go easily for 3-4 daysor longer without being fed.. Under feeding is better then over feeding*
    I have never had any real luck with vacation blocks in my tanks. I usually break the blocks up and have someone add a small piece to the tank every other day if I am gone more then a week..
    We was gone 2weeks and used one 3 day vacation block.. Fish where hungry, but in good health when we got home.Also lowering the temp of the tank a few degrees will slow down the matabilizm(sp) of the fish so they don't require so much food..
     
    rob
    NE Indiana
    USa
     
     
    In a message dated 1/13/2005 1:35:17 PM Central Standard Time, smrtlauf@... writes:
    Last week I had to go to my home in wisconsin before we left we added
    a small 3 day weekend block.  When we came home the tank was green!
    The fish are alive and healthy, the plants are still growing but the
    water is lime green and very hard to see through.  I've taken the
    plants out, I have changed the filter and checked it for any caught
    plant parts (it was time to do that anyway) and I have done a partial
    water change but its still very green.  What would cause this and why
    isn't it going away?  is something wrong with the filter or the hood? 

    thanks for listening, hope to hear from u soon!
    smrtlauf aka Miranda
     
    Robert
    NE Indiana
    USA
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7786 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Mollies
    OOPps didn't see this part:
     
    It wouldn't hurt to seperate her.. She'd probally enjoy some quiet time :-)
     
     
    In a message dated 1/13/2005 1:56:35 PM Central Standard Time, FortWayneFish@... writes:
    , do I need to put her in a separate tank so that she
    doesn't get stressed by the male balloon molly. Somebody please reply.
     
    Robert
    NE Indiana
    USA
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7787 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    You can also hit the tank with either Bio-Spira or Stability (Seachem) it will feed on the ammonia and establish other bacteria's for Nitrite. 
     
    Al
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7788 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    Did you leave your light on the whole time you were gone?  That might explain the Algae bloom?
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7789 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    Treating Ich

    In 45 years of keeping aquarium fishes, I have seen ich many times. In the
    old days, heat (85 deg F.) and salt (tsp. table salt per gallon) could knock
    it out pretty easily. Some strains of ich still respond to this treatment.
    Later, many strains became resistant to this treatment and the surest way
    was to use quinine. Then reistance to quinine became common and the
    treatment of choice became malachite green.

    Nowadays the best treatment is with mdication containing both quinine and
    malachite green. There are several pruducts out there that contain both. If
    you use these according to directions, you should be able to cure the ich
    without any harm to your fishes.

    Mike Reed
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7790 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        That may be true, but in my experience (and it is 42 less years than yours), water changes, salt and heat knock it out in a few days to a week.  But I have also heard there are different ich species in different parts of the world, and they are moving around constantly.
     
    Patrick, the American Fish Guy
     
    Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
    About my tanks:  
    29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
    -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
    -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
    -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
    10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
    -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
    -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
    -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
    -------Original Message-------
    Treating Ich

    In 45 years of keeping aquarium fishes, I have seen ich many times. In the
    old days, heat (85 deg F.) and salt (tsp. table salt per gallon) could knock
    it out pretty easily. Some strains of ich still respond to this treatment.
    Later, many strains became resistant to this treatment and the surest way
    was to use quinine. Then reistance to quinine became common and the
    treatment of choice became malachite green.

    Nowadays the best treatment is with mdication containing both quinine and
    malachite green. There are several pruducts out there that contain both. If
    you use these according to directions, you should be able to cure the ich
    without any harm to your fishes.

    Mike Reed
    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7791 From: paul helms Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    bacteria can't physically reproduce rapidl enough to
    cycle a tank completely in 24 hours. it is just not
    possible for them to attch to and populate your
    biologic filter that quickly. even adding components
    from a mature tank will take 2 weeks to complete a
    mini cycle. these products do jump start you and
    place you ahead by a week or two, but the tank is
    definately not cycled!
    --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:

    >
    > Randy, A previous post today by Al recommended
    > using a product by
    > Seachem called "Stability" in combination with
    > Bio-Spira; check out
    > his post. He states that tanks can be cycled in 24
    > hours using this
    > method. Can't say myself as this is new to me. In
    > general it
    > usually takes between 4 and 6 weeks to cycle a tank,
    > type of water
    > having little to do with it. Main purpose of course
    > is to establish
    > your nitrifying bacteria to the extent that you have
    > near 0 ammonia
    > and nitrites. Discus can tolerate a good amount of
    > salt without
    > distress, but the addition of salt is not necessary
    > (nor desirable)
    > in the least for general maintenance, nor breeding.
    > Some hobbyists
    > use black water tonic with good results, although
    > again, not really
    > needed. Your use of R/O water should be ideal for
    > them, but it does
    > have to be cut with some of your tap water for some
    > trace minerals.
    > Not knowing the parameters of your tap water, I
    > can't say how much to
    > mix although you might want to start out with at
    > least 10% to 20% tap
    > water -- you'll have to see. No fish will do well
    > for any length of
    > time in pure R/O water. Best bet is to get a
    > conductivity meter and
    > check as you mix your water. You'll need a reading
    > of no more
    > (preferably somewhat less) than 90 Microseimens for
    > the eggs to
    > properly develop. Breeding temperature - 86.
    > Normal maintenance
    > temperature - 82. Raising fry/juveniles - 86.
    > Sorry, I don't live
    > in Texas so can't help you with supplying fish and
    > its too cold to
    > ship. Best of Luck, Ray
    > \
    >
    > --- In
    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
    > "ranginute"
    > <rw9673@m...> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > Hello all. A newbie to this board but an oldy in
    > the hobby. I have
    > > kept aquariums for about the last 30 years. My
    > dad had aquariums
    > > since before I was born.
    > >
    > > For the past ten years or so, I have been wholly
    > dedicated to
    > > saltwater and the frustrations that go with that.
    > I just relocated
    > > to Dallas and as I did not want to move live fish,
    > I sold all of my
    > > fish, critters, and live rock to someone.
    > >
    > > Now, I am dying to get going again and have
    > decided to start with
    > > freshwater fish in my only remaining tank...a 44
    > hex.
    > >
    > > It has been so long since I kept freshwater, I am
    > rusty in the
    > > startup procedures.
    > >
    > > I will not be using tap water in the tanks...I
    > learned that lesson
    > a
    > > long time ago....I have a complete Reverse Osmosis
    > filtering
    > setup.
    > > Here is the first question: What is the cycle
    > time of water of
    > this
    > > sort and what type of additives are required to
    > bring it up to spec?
    > >
    > > Are there any Discus fans on this board? What is
    > the correct
    > > salinity of Discus water (Brackish)? I have been
    > doing some
    > research
    > > on the web and I see many recommendations for
    > "staining" the water
    > a
    > > little with peat for a more realistic environment.
    > >
    > > I intend to attempt to breed these in the future
    > and I am looking
    > for
    > > a very natural environment for this tank. Any
    > discussion on this
    > > would help. Also, any contacts in the Dallas /
    > Fort Worth area
    > would
    > > be appreciated....especially breeders.
    > >
    > > I refuse to pay the prices they are charging for
    > the Watley Discus.
    > >
    > > Thanks
    > >
    > > Randy
    >
    >
    >
    >




    __________________________________
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    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7792 From: Steve Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    From the That Fish Place online catalogue, the Instant Ocean model "accurate
    to +/- 0.001, full range scale from: 1.000 to 1.032 in .002 increments
    except in the safe zone, there it is in .0001 increments (specific gravity),
    0 to 40 PPT in increments of 2 (salinity)." You can find it at:
    http://tinyurl.com/5wo75.

    A refractometer is really overkill for a brackish water tank. If you are a
    marine enthusiast, it may be worth the investment, especially if you are
    trying to breed your fish, or other critters. The salinity of a brackish
    tank is not all that critical. A brackish environment normally fluctuates in
    salinity, and most brackish fish can go into a pure marine environment for a
    while as well as going to a freshwater environment. So if you go from a
    1.005 reading to a 1.012 reading, then back down again, the fish are not
    going to mind, and may well do better for you in the long run.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Audrey Archer [mailto:arch1574@...]
    Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:15 PM
    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
    AquaticLife ] Re: new brackish tank



    Thanks, Steve, Paul, and Patrick, for all of the info. More questions!!!

    Paul, I know I am way overstocked... I only wanted a few. I am gradually
    getting rid of excess Endler's fry by feeding them to my Convicts. When the
    Convicts get big enough, I may feed some mommies to them as well, and keep
    just a couple in my 2.5 gallon. Guess I should have only added males to my
    planted tank. ;-)

    Also, from your numbers of 1/3 to 1/2 c of salt per gallon for full salt
    water, and the 20/80 ratio for a starting brackish tank (I understand that
    as dwarf puffers mature they come to need more salt and might even
    eventually need a marine tank?) it sounds like my guess of 1 cup for ten
    gallons to start wasn't too far off, if I get a young one.

    Steve, maybe I will invest in some sea salt for any water changes...? And
    what is the difference in a hydrometer and a refractometer for measuring
    spec grav? Why are the latter so much more expensive? (More precise?) The
    hydrometers I saw in my fishy catalogues ($7.50 to $25.00, and the most
    expensive one doesn't read below 1.018) don't claim to go low enough for
    reading 1.005, or else don't say at all... whereas the ads for the
    refractometers (sale price of $43, reduced from $60, up to $110!) do say
    they start at 1.000 and go up to 1.070. I am about a 45 minute drive away
    from a decent fish store, so... I will need to call him and make sure he has
    exactly what I need before I make that trip.

    Have any of you ever used these "EcoComplete" substrates that come packed in
    liquid with live bacteria and are also supposed to help keep your pH and
    minerals stable? Because although it did wipe out the ammonia in my tank in
    three days with no rise in nitrites, I have noticed that the Convict tank,
    which started out at a higher pH and KH, has dropped now that a few fish
    are in there. I wanted this type of substrate because, even though my well
    water is 8.0 to 8.5 pH, I found that the nitogen cycle tends to acidify the
    water, but apparently EcoComplete doesn't work well to keep the pH stable
    during the cycle. Probably not a big deal, that it dropped, since I have
    Convicts... those things can probably survive all of my stupid beginner
    mistakes... but I added some baking soda and Epsom salt and freshwater
    salt, anyway. (If they do die, I will get the fish I had REALLY wanted...
    Julies and Neolamps.)

    Audrey
    Southeast Georgia
    Only keeping fish indoors since April 2004

    2.5 gal (empty) hospice
    10 gal planted freshwater, Endler's (50-75?? mostly fry) and Golden White
    Clouds (5)
    10 gal empty brackish
    20 gal with 3 young Convicts (and about 20 fry)
    Small pre-formed garden pond (more than five years old, no fish in the pond
    right now, just snails and tree frogs and other similar critters breed
    here - white clouds were in here until temps got too high; we had a few koi
    and goldfish in it before, wildlife got them)
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7793 From: Steve Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    Paul,

    I cannot and will not agree with your no water change philosophy. While your
    over filtration may help with the maintenance of ammonia and nitrites at
    acceptable levels, it will do nothing to remove nitrates. A high level of
    nitrates has been blamed to cause certain disease type activity in fish,
    such as hole in the head and lateral line erosion. Plants might help with
    maintaining a level of nitrates low enough to prevent such things from
    happening.

    Unless you are using distilled water for replacing evaporated water, the
    level of minerals present in the water will rise, albeit at a low rate, and
    the fish may be able to adapt to this to a certain extent. However, if your
    water contains heavy metals, the fish will not be able to adapt, and thus
    begin to fail.

    Fish release various hormones into the water. Among these are a hormone that
    will slow, if not stop, growth in the resident fish, including those that
    release it.

    Regular water changes will remove those things that are harmful to your
    fish, and using regular water will help replace trace metals that are used
    by the fish and plants in the tank.

    I've been in and around the hobby for a good number of years, and have done
    quite a bit of historical reading. Every so often there is someone coming
    around claiming to be able to keep an aquarium for years without doing water
    changes. They usually do develop a following because, hey, who wants to do
    all the work with doing the water changes? I'm as lazy as the next guy,
    maybe more so--especially if you listen to my girl. (Just because I am not
    doing the things that she thinks I ought to be doing at any given point in
    time.) However, all my reading has shown that regular water changes provide
    a valuable function in a closed system, such as an aquarium.

    I judge fish shows now and again. One of the things I am always disappointed
    by is the size of the fish. Seldom does one see full grown specimens of any
    species. Part of this may be the result of breeding, but I am also sure that
    part is caused by the failure to do regular water changes.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
    Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 2:19 AM
    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
    AquaticLife ] Re: bacterial filter



    i personally do not do water changes because:
    1. my tank has 2-3 times the filtration required.
    2. my tanks are not overstocked
    3. i do not over feed.
    personally i do not believe that a biowheel can
    replace an under gravel filter with powerheads, but
    the 2 together make for a "bullet proof" system. we
    already had a massively huge debate on the subject.
    unfortunatey heavily planted tanks can't use ug
    filters because the roots will clog them. in that
    case a biowheel is perfect. i have gone as long as 3
    years without doing a water change....only topping
    off, so yes cycling the tank (which takes 4-6 weeks,
    not 3 days) will help. whie products such as "cycle"
    clai to work in 3 days....they can't make bacteria
    grow and reproduce in that span of time. it is a
    completely false label. if you wait only three days,
    you may as well have waited 3 hours. as far as
    anaerobic bacteria being the one that gases off
    nitrogen, you are correct, but the anaerobic bacteria
    can't perform that function if there is any oxygen
    present, so it ends up polluting the water in this
    situation. one other note is that if you are reaching
    40ppm in as little as 1-2 weeks, the tank is no where
    near cycled, you are basically restarting teh tanks
    cycle over and over. the number of fish (80)in the
    tank will never let it cycle, because they are
    polluting far faster than bacteria is reproducing.
    paul
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7794 From: Steve Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    Hey Mike! Long time no see! All well with you and yours?

    -----Original Message-----
    From: M Reed Enterprises [mailto:mreed@...]
    Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 4:17 PM
    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
    AquaticLife ] Digest Number 566



    Treating Ich

    In 45 years of keeping aquarium fishes, I have seen ich many times. In the
    old days, heat (85 deg F.) and salt (tsp. table salt per gallon) could knock
    it out pretty easily. Some strains of ich still respond to this treatment.
    Later, many strains became resistant to this treatment and the surest way
    was to use quinine. Then reistance to quinine became common and the
    treatment of choice became malachite green.

    Nowadays the best treatment is with mdication containing both quinine and
    malachite green. There are several pruducts out there that contain both. If
    you use these according to directions, you should be able to cure the ich
    without any harm to your fishes.

    Mike Reed
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7795 From: Steve Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
    Miranda,

    You got what is technically known as "green water". Pretty much what it is
    is algae and maybe some euglena floating around and coloring the water. For
    any algae to grow, a few things are required. Food and Light. The food is
    basically nitrogenous waste, and the light is, well, light.

    Use a reliable test kit to test your water parameters. The presence of any
    nitrogen will be considered a bad thing--this includes ammonia, nitrates,
    and nitrites. You'll need to clean the tank, and gravel particularly, of any
    waste that may be present. Use one of those siphons with the large end on
    them so you can clean the gravel.

    While someone is bound to jump in here and say that water changes will only
    worsen your situation, you will need to do a certain amount of water changes
    to get everything back in balance. Check your tap water prior to using it in
    the tank. This may be a source of nitrogenous materials in the water. your
    water may also be a source of phosphates, another growth enhancer. Check
    with your water department to see what your water looks like when it leaves
    the treatment plant.

    Light is more problematical. Not only does the tank light provide energy for
    the growth of algae and other plants, but the ambient room light will also
    contribute. You will need to reduce the amount of light reaching the tank.
    If the room has a lot of natural light, use something to block that light or
    at least reduce it. Light the tank for fewer hours each day.

    This type of thing can be the devil to get rid of, but, as the water comes
    back into balance, the growth will slow and then stop. The problem is, that
    as this algae dies, it, in turn will provide a food source for more to grow.
    As the water parameters come back to normal, do more small water changes,
    treating the water before hand, if necessary, to remove chorine, chloramines
    (which contain ammonia), and whatever may be necessary. You may wish to go
    to use RO filtered water or distilled water.

    \\Steve//

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Miranda [mailto:smrtlauf@...]
    Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 12:53 PM
    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
    AquaticLife ] new and ? about green water





    Hi group, I am smrtlauf and I am new here. You can call me smrt or
    smrtlauf or some people call me Miranda too, i really dont care..as my
    dad says just don't call me late for supper.

    Anyway, I'm relatively new to the aquatic world, but not new to the
    veterinary field. I am 23 years old and in Argosy University -Twin
    Cities veterinary technology program. I went to the University of
    Minnesota for four year as an animal science major but my grades
    werent the best so I opted for vet tech. I worked for 5 years, at my
    hometown in western Wisconsin, at a mixed practice veterinary clinic.
    I learned a lot from that.

    My current collection of pets include a dog-Thumper, a cat- Alyssa
    --these two are currently with my parents, and with me I have 4
    gerbils a hermit crab and fish. As for fish, I have 3 white cloud
    minnows and two Cory's. We call the minnows "the zales" and the
    Cory's "the kori's" I know not real original.

    ok now on to my question....My roommate and I have had this aquarium
    running since October, put the fish in early december. It was a
    battle for awhile with the ammonia level but we finally got it down.

    We added some aquatic plants a few weeks ago, recently they have been
    growing like weeds but they and the fish are healthy and i think they
    have helped the ammonia level. We didn't think much of it though.
    Last week I had to go to my home in wisconsin before we left we added
    a small 3 day weekend block. When we came home the tank was green!
    The fish are alive and healthy, the plants are still growing but the
    water is lime green and very hard to see through. I've taken the
    plants out, I have changed the filter and checked it for any caught
    plant parts (it was time to do that anyway) and I have done a partial
    water change but its still very green. What would cause this and why
    isn't it going away? is something wrong with the filter or the hood?

    thanks for listening, hope to hear from u soon!
    smrtlauf aka Miranda








    please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks

    Yahoo! Groups Links
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 7796 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 1/13/2005
    Subject: Deep Sea Creatures - Found At Phuket Seaside After Tsunami
    Attachments :
      Message
          Cool creatures!!!
      Group: AquaticLife Message: 7797 From: Michael Schmidt Date: 1/13/2005
      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
      Attachments :
        Message
        speaking of chimaera's, here is an image of a fossil chimaera (the oldest fossil chimaera's known to science) that I have from the Bear Gulch Formation of Montana...it's Mississippian; about 325 million years old.
         
        this particular specimen is 8cm long, as is one of the finest I have ever seen.  All of the soft tissue preservation is present, as well as all of the spines of the fish.
         
        Echinochimaera meltoni
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 8:56 PM
        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be AquaticLife ] Deep Sea Creatures - Found At Phuket Seaside After Tsunami

            Cool creatures!!!


        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7798 From: seamonkeystew Date: 1/13/2005
        Subject: Re: new and ? about green water
        the water could also be green because the tank light is left on too
        long (more than 8 hours is a lot), and alos could be because the
        tank my be in front of a window or catching too much sunlight during
        the day(which may explain the plants growing like weeds)















        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Miranda"
        <smrtlauf@y...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hi group, I am smrtlauf and I am new here. You can call me smrt or
        > smrtlauf or some people call me Miranda too, i really dont
        care..as my
        > dad says just don't call me late for supper.
        >
        > Anyway, I'm relatively new to the aquatic world, but not new to the
        > veterinary field. I am 23 years old and in Argosy University -Twin
        > Cities veterinary technology program. I went to the University of
        > Minnesota for four year as an animal science major but my grades
        > werent the best so I opted for vet tech. I worked for 5 years, at
        my
        > hometown in western Wisconsin, at a mixed practice veterinary
        clinic.
        > I learned a lot from that.
        >
        > My current collection of pets include a dog-Thumper, a cat- Alyssa
        > --these two are currently with my parents, and with me I have 4
        > gerbils a hermit crab and fish. As for fish, I have 3 white cloud
        > minnows and two Cory's. We call the minnows "the zales" and the
        > Cory's "the kori's" I know not real original.
        >
        > ok now on to my question....My roommate and I have had this
        aquarium
        > running since October, put the fish in early december. It was a
        > battle for awhile with the ammonia level but we finally got it
        down.
        >
        > We added some aquatic plants a few weeks ago, recently they have
        been
        > growing like weeds but they and the fish are healthy and i think
        they
        > have helped the ammonia level. We didn't think much of it though.
        > Last week I had to go to my home in wisconsin before we left we
        added
        > a small 3 day weekend block. When we came home the tank was
        green!
        > The fish are alive and healthy, the plants are still growing but
        the
        > water is lime green and very hard to see through. I've taken the
        > plants out, I have changed the filter and checked it for any caught
        > plant parts (it was time to do that anyway) and I have done a
        partial
        > water change but its still very green. What would cause this and
        why
        > isn't it going away? is something wrong with the filter or the
        hood?
        >
        > thanks for listening, hope to hear from u soon!
        > smrtlauf aka Miranda
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7799 From: paul helms Date: 1/13/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        the main food supply (outside photosynthesis) for
        algae's is phosphate, which comes from excess food
        being in the tank. there will always be some that is
        processed through the fish, but any excess food will
        leave behind phosphate, and chemicals do not remove
        it. there are pads and sponges available, as well as
        reduction through water changes (as long as it is not
        present in your tap water). i would recomend putting
        in a pad that can be cut to fit in your filter. 9about
        4.00 a sheet which will make several pads
        paul
        --- Steve <steve@...> wrote:

        > Miranda,
        >
        > You got what is technically known as "green water".
        > Pretty much what it is
        > is algae and maybe some euglena floating around and
        > coloring the water. For
        > any algae to grow, a few things are required. Food
        > and Light. The food is
        > basically nitrogenous waste, and the light is, well,
        > light.
        >
        > Use a reliable test kit to test your water
        > parameters. The presence of any
        > nitrogen will be considered a bad thing--this
        > includes ammonia, nitrates,
        > and nitrites. You'll need to clean the tank, and
        > gravel particularly, of any
        > waste that may be present. Use one of those siphons
        > with the large end on
        > them so you can clean the gravel.
        >
        > While someone is bound to jump in here and say that
        > water changes will only
        > worsen your situation, you will need to do a certain
        > amount of water changes
        > to get everything back in balance. Check your tap
        > water prior to using it in
        > the tank. This may be a source of nitrogenous
        > materials in the water. your
        > water may also be a source of phosphates, another
        > growth enhancer. Check
        > with your water department to see what your water
        > looks like when it leaves
        > the treatment plant.
        >
        > Light is more problematical. Not only does the tank
        > light provide energy for
        > the growth of algae and other plants, but the
        > ambient room light will also
        > contribute. You will need to reduce the amount of
        > light reaching the tank.
        > If the room has a lot of natural light, use
        > something to block that light or
        > at least reduce it. Light the tank for fewer hours
        > each day.
        >
        > This type of thing can be the devil to get rid of,
        > but, as the water comes
        > back into balance, the growth will slow and then
        > stop. The problem is, that
        > as this algae dies, it, in turn will provide a food
        > source for more to grow.
        > As the water parameters come back to normal, do more
        > small water changes,
        > treating the water before hand, if necessary, to
        > remove chorine, chloramines
        > (which contain ammonia), and whatever may be
        > necessary. You may wish to go
        > to use RO filtered water or distilled water.
        >
        > \\Steve//
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Miranda [mailto:smrtlauf@...]
        > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 12:53 PM
        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group
        > name soon to be
        > AquaticLife ] new and ? about green water
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi group, I am smrtlauf and I am new here. You can
        > call me smrt or
        > smrtlauf or some people call me Miranda too, i
        > really dont care..as my
        > dad says just don't call me late for supper.
        >
        > Anyway, I'm relatively new to the aquatic world, but
        > not new to the
        > veterinary field. I am 23 years old and in Argosy
        > University -Twin
        > Cities veterinary technology program. I went to the
        > University of
        > Minnesota for four year as an animal science major
        > but my grades
        > werent the best so I opted for vet tech. I worked
        > for 5 years, at my
        > hometown in western Wisconsin, at a mixed practice
        > veterinary clinic.
        > I learned a lot from that.
        >
        > My current collection of pets include a dog-Thumper,
        > a cat- Alyssa
        > --these two are currently with my parents, and with
        > me I have 4
        > gerbils a hermit crab and fish. As for fish, I have
        > 3 white cloud
        > minnows and two Cory's. We call the minnows "the
        > zales" and the
        > Cory's "the kori's" I know not real original.
        >
        > ok now on to my question....My roommate and I have
        > had this aquarium
        > running since October, put the fish in early
        > december. It was a
        > battle for awhile with the ammonia level but we
        > finally got it down.
        >
        > We added some aquatic plants a few weeks ago,
        > recently they have been
        > growing like weeds but they and the fish are healthy
        > and i think they
        > have helped the ammonia level. We didn't think much
        > of it though.
        > Last week I had to go to my home in wisconsin before
        > we left we added
        > a small 3 day weekend block. When we came home the
        > tank was green!
        > The fish are alive and healthy, the plants are still
        > growing but the
        > water is lime green and very hard to see through.
        > I've taken the
        > plants out, I have changed the filter and checked it
        > for any caught
        > plant parts (it was time to do that anyway) and I
        > have done a partial
        > water change but its still very green. What would
        > cause this and why
        > isn't it going away? is something wrong with the
        > filter or the hood?
        >
        > thanks for listening, hope to hear from u soon!
        > smrtlauf aka Miranda
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when
        > replying, thanks
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




        __________________________________
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7800 From: paul helms Date: 1/13/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        if you will notice from my posts, i make damn sure to
        let people know that i am expressing my experiences,
        and do not tell people not to change water, but rather
        to make sure that it on small scales. not biweekly
        20% water changes. if your tank is healthy, water
        changes are only required to take care of the things
        that do build up over time. most of my post do also
        state that i belive in 5-10% water chnages bi weekly,
        not exceeding 20% per month. in my case, i have set
        up my tanks through a fishless 6 week cycle and
        stocked my tanks very slowly, adding 1-2 fish per week
        until stocked to where i am satisfied. i have had one
        instance of ick since 1995. i have never had a fish
        with any other illness, and my fish live 2-3 years on
        average. i mainatin both fresh and saltwater, and i
        do top off with r.o. water whenever possible (80%) f
        the time. the way that i have setup my tanks allows
        me to not have to do water changes...it has nthing to
        do with laziness at all. my cori's, guppies, mollies,
        and angels have all bred in my tanks, which will not
        be done in poor quality water (excess for live
        bearers). and i have 10 year old serpent stars in my
        saltwater tanks that would lose all of their limbs if
        anythig was out of balance. so basically i really
        don't care if you want to or will agree with me, but i
        have every right to relate my experience here,
        especially when people are being advised that they do
        not need bio filers and that " it is a process not a
        filter", " all you need is gravel".
        --- Steve <steve@...> wrote:

        > Paul,
        >
        > I cannot and will not agree with your no water
        > change philosophy. While your
        > over filtration may help with the maintenance of
        > ammonia and nitrites at
        > acceptable levels, it will do nothing to remove
        > nitrates. A high level of
        > nitrates has been blamed to cause certain disease
        > type activity in fish,
        > such as hole in the head and lateral line erosion.
        > Plants might help with
        > maintaining a level of nitrates low enough to
        > prevent such things from
        > happening.
        >
        > Unless you are using distilled water for replacing
        > evaporated water, the
        > level of minerals present in the water will rise,
        > albeit at a low rate, and
        > the fish may be able to adapt to this to a certain
        > extent. However, if your
        > water contains heavy metals, the fish will not be
        > able to adapt, and thus
        > begin to fail.
        >
        > Fish release various hormones into the water. Among
        > these are a hormone that
        > will slow, if not stop, growth in the resident fish,
        > including those that
        > release it.
        >
        > Regular water changes will remove those things that
        > are harmful to your
        > fish, and using regular water will help replace
        > trace metals that are used
        > by the fish and plants in the tank.
        >
        > I've been in and around the hobby for a good number
        > of years, and have done
        > quite a bit of historical reading. Every so often
        > there is someone coming
        > around claiming to be able to keep an aquarium for
        > years without doing water
        > changes. They usually do develop a following
        > because, hey, who wants to do
        > all the work with doing the water changes? I'm as
        > lazy as the next guy,
        > maybe more so--especially if you listen to my girl.
        > (Just because I am not
        > doing the things that she thinks I ought to be doing
        > at any given point in
        > time.) However, all my reading has shown that
        > regular water changes provide
        > a valuable function in a closed system, such as an
        > aquarium.
        >
        > I judge fish shows now and again. One of the things
        > I am always disappointed
        > by is the size of the fish. Seldom does one see full
        > grown specimens of any
        > species. Part of this may be the result of breeding,
        > but I am also sure that
        > part is caused by the failure to do regular water
        > changes.
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
        > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 2:19 AM
        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group
        > name soon to be
        > AquaticLife ] Re: bacterial filter
        >
        >
        >
        > i personally do not do water changes because:
        > 1. my tank has 2-3 times the filtration required.
        > 2. my tanks are not overstocked
        > 3. i do not over feed.
        > personally i do not believe that a biowheel can
        > replace an under gravel filter with powerheads, but
        > the 2 together make for a "bullet proof" system. we
        > already had a massively huge debate on the subject.
        > unfortunatey heavily planted tanks can't use ug
        > filters because the roots will clog them. in that
        > case a biowheel is perfect. i have gone as long as
        > 3
        > years without doing a water change....only topping
        > off, so yes cycling the tank (which takes 4-6 weeks,
        > not 3 days) will help. whie products such as
        > "cycle"
        > clai to work in 3 days....they can't make bacteria
        > grow and reproduce in that span of time. it is a
        > completely false label. if you wait only three days,
        > you may as well have waited 3 hours. as far as
        > anaerobic bacteria being the one that gases off
        > nitrogen, you are correct, but the anaerobic
        > bacteria
        > can't perform that function if there is any oxygen
        > present, so it ends up polluting the water in this
        > situation. one other note is that if you are
        > reaching
        > 40ppm in as little as 1-2 weeks, the tank is no
        > where
        > near cycled, you are basically restarting teh tanks
        > cycle over and over. the number of fish (80)in the
        > tank will never let it cycle, because they are
        > polluting far faster than bacteria is reproducing.
        > paul
        >
        >




        __________________________________
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7801 From: Steve Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        Many fish, particularly the angels and corys that you mention, have expected
        life spans of more than three years.

        Guppies can be expected to live for up to 4 years. Mollies have a life span
        of at least three years. Corydoras spp. can be expected to live for at least
        5 years. Angelfish can be expected to live for more than 10 years. If you
        are only getting 2-2 years out of these fish, you are doing something wrong.
        It could be the water. It could be the diet. It could be the temperature. In
        any case, you should examine your husbandry practices to determine why your
        fish are not living to their full potential.

        \\Steve//

        -----Original Message-----
        From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
        Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 2:31 AM
        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
        AquaticLife ] Re: bacterial filter



        if you will notice from my posts, i make damn sure to
        let people know that i am expressing my experiences,
        and do not tell people not to change water, but rather
        to make sure that it on small scales. not biweekly
        20% water changes. if your tank is healthy, water
        changes are only required to take care of the things
        that do build up over time. most of my post do also
        state that i belive in 5-10% water chnages bi weekly,
        not exceeding 20% per month. in my case, i have set
        up my tanks through a fishless 6 week cycle and
        stocked my tanks very slowly, adding 1-2 fish per week
        until stocked to where i am satisfied. i have had one
        instance of ick since 1995. i have never had a fish
        with any other illness, and my fish live 2-3 years on
        average. i mainatin both fresh and saltwater, and i
        do top off with r.o. water whenever possible (80%) f
        the time. the way that i have setup my tanks allows
        me to not have to do water changes...it has nthing to
        do with laziness at all. my cori's, guppies, mollies,
        and angels have all bred in my tanks, which will not
        be done in poor quality water (excess for live
        bearers). and i have 10 year old serpent stars in my
        saltwater tanks that would lose all of their limbs if
        anythig was out of balance. so basically i really
        don't care if you want to or will agree with me, but i
        have every right to relate my experience here,
        especially when people are being advised that they do
        not need bio filers and that " it is a process not a
        filter", " all you need is gravel".
        --- Steve <steve@...> wrote:

        > Paul,
        >
        > I cannot and will not agree with your no water
        > change philosophy. While your
        > over filtration may help with the maintenance of
        > ammonia and nitrites at
        > acceptable levels, it will do nothing to remove
        > nitrates. A high level of
        > nitrates has been blamed to cause certain disease
        > type activity in fish,
        > such as hole in the head and lateral line erosion.
        > Plants might help with
        > maintaining a level of nitrates low enough to
        > prevent such things from
        > happening.
        >
        > Unless you are using distilled water for replacing
        > evaporated water, the
        > level of minerals present in the water will rise,
        > albeit at a low rate, and
        > the fish may be able to adapt to this to a certain
        > extent. However, if your
        > water contains heavy metals, the fish will not be
        > able to adapt, and thus
        > begin to fail.
        >
        > Fish release various hormones into the water. Among
        > these are a hormone that
        > will slow, if not stop, growth in the resident fish,
        > including those that
        > release it.
        >
        > Regular water changes will remove those things that
        > are harmful to your
        > fish, and using regular water will help replace
        > trace metals that are used
        > by the fish and plants in the tank.
        >
        > I've been in and around the hobby for a good number
        > of years, and have done
        > quite a bit of historical reading. Every so often
        > there is someone coming
        > around claiming to be able to keep an aquarium for
        > years without doing water
        > changes. They usually do develop a following
        > because, hey, who wants to do
        > all the work with doing the water changes? I'm as
        > lazy as the next guy,
        > maybe more so--especially if you listen to my girl.
        > (Just because I am not
        > doing the things that she thinks I ought to be doing
        > at any given point in
        > time.) However, all my reading has shown that
        > regular water changes provide
        > a valuable function in a closed system, such as an
        > aquarium.
        >
        > I judge fish shows now and again. One of the things
        > I am always disappointed
        > by is the size of the fish. Seldom does one see full
        > grown specimens of any
        > species. Part of this may be the result of breeding,
        > but I am also sure that
        > part is caused by the failure to do regular water
        > changes.
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
        > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 2:19 AM
        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group
        > name soon to be
        > AquaticLife ] Re: bacterial filter
        >
        >
        >
        > i personally do not do water changes because:
        > 1. my tank has 2-3 times the filtration required.
        > 2. my tanks are not overstocked
        > 3. i do not over feed.
        > personally i do not believe that a biowheel can
        > replace an under gravel filter with powerheads, but
        > the 2 together make for a "bullet proof" system. we
        > already had a massively huge debate on the subject.
        > unfortunatey heavily planted tanks can't use ug
        > filters because the roots will clog them. in that
        > case a biowheel is perfect. i have gone as long as
        > 3
        > years without doing a water change....only topping
        > off, so yes cycling the tank (which takes 4-6 weeks,
        > not 3 days) will help. whie products such as
        > "cycle"
        > clai to work in 3 days....they can't make bacteria
        > grow and reproduce in that span of time. it is a
        > completely false label. if you wait only three days,
        > you may as well have waited 3 hours. as far as
        > anaerobic bacteria being the one that gases off
        > nitrogen, you are correct, but the anaerobic
        > bacteria
        > can't perform that function if there is any oxygen
        > present, so it ends up polluting the water in this
        > situation. one other note is that if you are
        > reaching
        > 40ppm in as little as 1-2 weeks, the tank is no
        > where
        > near cycled, you are basically restarting teh tanks
        > cycle over and over. the number of fish (80)in the
        > tank will never let it cycle, because they are
        > polluting far faster than bacteria is reproducing.
        > paul
        >
        >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7802 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Tank dimensions?
        I am considering a second hand hex tank to add to my collection and was wondering if anyone had an idea how many gallons would be in one 24" across at it's widest point? I don't know how tall it is, and know it's salient as to volume but that's all I have for information. LOL... The owner thinks it's a 35
         
        Thanks!
         
        Vicky
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7803 From: Michael Schmidt Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: image
        For those of you who get the digest version.........
         
         
        I have created a new folder in the photos section of the list called Fossil Fish.  I have uploaded a photo of the fossil Chimaera into the folder. 
         
        The info again on this spectacular animal is below:
         
        speaking of chimaera's, here is an image of a fossil chimaera (the oldest fossil chimaera's known to science) that I have from the Bear Gulch Formation of Montana...it's Mississippian; about 325 million years old.
         
        Echinochimaera meltoni
         
        this particular specimen is 8cm long, as is one of the finest I have ever seen.  All of the soft tissue preservation is present, as well as all of the spines of the fish.
         
        Enjoy!
        Michael
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7804 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        common hexagon measurements:
         
        10 Hexagon 14 1/2 x 12 9/16 x 18 3/4  
        20 Hexagon 18 3/4 x 16 1/4 x 20 5/8
        35 Hexagon 23 1/4 x 20 3/16 x 24 3/4
        60 Hexagon 27 1/4 x 24 1/8 x 29 1/2
         
        hope this helps  the manufacturers name would be a big help also
         
        rob
        NE Indiana
        USA
        In a message dated 1/14/2005 9:08:46 AM Central Standard Time, seleya8@... writes:
        I am considering a second hand hex tank to add to my collection and was wondering if anyone had an idea how many gallons would be in one 24" across at it's widest point? I don't know how tall it is, and know it's as to volume but that's all I have for information. LOL... The owner thinks it's a 35
         
        Thanks!
         
        Vicky
         
        Robert
        NE Indiana
        USA
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7805 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        riiight buddy. that is an avergae based on short life
        after introduction. in other words i would never
        claim that 100% of my fish live to be heir full
        expectancy or higher. the tank is only 3 years old at
        the moment, and the average age of the fish is 2-3
        years old. those are not all in the this tank either.
        i have been keeping fresh water for over 10 years and
        there are a few from the last tank in this one. there
        are a few cori's in there that are 4 and a 2 year old
        ghost shrip and a 3 1/2 year old kuhli loach. as far
        as the angels go, i bought them at the size of a
        quarter and sold them when their bodies were the size
        of a silver dollar, they were bought and sold to helpp
        pay for the hobby. i lost one out of 30 babies in
        that whole process. there is nothing wrong with the
        way i keep and care for any of my pets. i guarantee
        that my average pets life span is longer than yours.
        i have had an 11 year old guninnea pig, 22 year old
        poodle, 15 year old german shepard, 19 year old cats,
        5 year old hamsetrs, 6 year old betta, 11 year old
        serpent stars, etc. what about you?

        --- Steve <steve@...> wrote:

        > Many fish, particularly the angels and corys that
        > you mention, have expected
        > life spans of more than three years.
        >
        > Guppies can be expected to live for up to 4 years.
        > Mollies have a life span
        > of at least three years. Corydoras spp. can be
        > expected to live for at least
        > 5 years. Angelfish can be expected to live for more
        > than 10 years. If you
        > are only getting 2-2 years out of these fish, you
        > are doing something wrong.
        > It could be the water. It could be the diet. It
        > could be the temperature. In
        > any case, you should examine your husbandry
        > practices to determine why your
        > fish are not living to their full potential.
        >
        > \\Steve//
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
        > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 2:31 AM
        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group
        > name soon to be
        > AquaticLife ] Re: bacterial filter
        >
        >
        >
        > if you will notice from my posts, i make damn sure
        > to
        > let people know that i am expressing my experiences,
        > and do not tell people not to change water, but
        > rather
        > to make sure that it on small scales. not biweekly
        > 20% water changes. if your tank is healthy, water
        > changes are only required to take care of the things
        > that do build up over time. most of my post do also
        > state that i belive in 5-10% water chnages bi
        > weekly,
        > not exceeding 20% per month. in my case, i have set
        > up my tanks through a fishless 6 week cycle and
        > stocked my tanks very slowly, adding 1-2 fish per
        > week
        > until stocked to where i am satisfied. i have had
        > one
        > instance of ick since 1995. i have never had a fish
        > with any other illness, and my fish live 2-3 years
        > on
        > average. i mainatin both fresh and saltwater, and i
        > do top off with r.o. water whenever possible (80%) f
        > the time. the way that i have setup my tanks allows
        > me to not have to do water changes...it has nthing
        > to
        > do with laziness at all. my cori's, guppies,
        > mollies,
        > and angels have all bred in my tanks, which will not
        > be done in poor quality water (excess for live
        > bearers). and i have 10 year old serpent stars in
        > my
        > saltwater tanks that would lose all of their limbs
        > if
        > anythig was out of balance. so basically i really
        > don't care if you want to or will agree with me, but
        > i
        > have every right to relate my experience here,
        > especially when people are being advised that they
        > do
        > not need bio filers and that " it is a process not a
        > filter", " all you need is gravel".
        > --- Steve <steve@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Paul,
        > >
        > > I cannot and will not agree with your no water
        > > change philosophy. While your
        > > over filtration may help with the maintenance of
        > > ammonia and nitrites at
        > > acceptable levels, it will do nothing to remove
        > > nitrates. A high level of
        > > nitrates has been blamed to cause certain disease
        > > type activity in fish,
        > > such as hole in the head and lateral line erosion.
        > > Plants might help with
        > > maintaining a level of nitrates low enough to
        > > prevent such things from
        > > happening.
        > >
        > > Unless you are using distilled water for replacing
        > > evaporated water, the
        > > level of minerals present in the water will rise,
        > > albeit at a low rate, and
        > > the fish may be able to adapt to this to a certain
        > > extent. However, if your
        > > water contains heavy metals, the fish will not be
        > > able to adapt, and thus
        > > begin to fail.
        > >
        > > Fish release various hormones into the water.
        > Among
        > > these are a hormone that
        > > will slow, if not stop, growth in the resident
        > fish,
        > > including those that
        > > release it.
        > >
        > > Regular water changes will remove those things
        > that
        > > are harmful to your
        > > fish, and using regular water will help replace
        > > trace metals that are used
        > > by the fish and plants in the tank.
        > >
        > > I've been in and around the hobby for a good
        > number
        > > of years, and have done
        > > quite a bit of historical reading. Every so often
        > > there is someone coming
        > > around claiming to be able to keep an aquarium for
        > > years without doing water
        > > changes. They usually do develop a following
        > > because, hey, who wants to do
        > > all the work with doing the water changes? I'm as
        > > lazy as the next guy,
        > > maybe more so--especially if you listen to my
        > girl.
        > > (Just because I am not
        > > doing the things that she thinks I ought to be
        > doing
        > > at any given point in
        > > time.) However, all my reading has shown that
        > > regular water changes provide
        > > a valuable function in a closed system, such as an
        > > aquarium.
        > >
        > > I judge fish shows now and again. One of the
        > things
        > > I am always disappointed
        > > by is the size of the fish. Seldom does one see
        > full
        > > grown specimens of any
        > > species. Part of this may be the result of
        > breeding,
        > > but I am also sure that
        > > part is caused by the failure to do regular water
        > > changes.
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
        > > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 2:19 AM
        > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~
        > group
        > > name soon to be
        > > AquaticLife ] Re: bacterial filter
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > i personally do not do water changes because:
        > > 1. my tank has 2-3 times the filtration required.
        > > 2. my tanks are not overstocked
        > > 3. i do not over feed.
        > > personally i do not believe that a biowheel can
        > > replace an under gravel filter with powerheads,
        > but
        > > the 2 together make for a "bullet proof" system.
        > we
        > > already had a massively huge debate on the
        > subject.
        > > unfortunatey heavily planted tanks can't use ug
        > > filters because the roots will clog them. in that
        > > case a biowheel is perfect. i have gone as long
        > as
        > > 3
        > > years without doing a water change....only topping
        > > off, so yes cycling the tank (which takes 4-6
        > weeks,
        > > not 3 days) will help. whie products such as
        > > "cycle"
        > > clai to work in 3 days....they can't make bacteria
        > > grow and reproduce in that span of time. it is a
        > > completely false label. if you wait only three
        > days,
        > > you may as well have waited 3 hours. as far as
        > > anaerobic bacteria being the one that gases off
        > > nitrogen, you are correct, but the anaerobic
        > > bacteria
        > > can't perform that function if there is any oxygen
        > > present, so it ends up polluting the water in this
        > > situation. one other note is that if you are
        > > reaching
        > > 40ppm in as little as 1-2 weeks, the tank is no
        > > where
        > > near cycled, you are basically restarting teh
        > tanks
        > > cycle over and over. the number of fish (80)in
        > the
        > > tank will never let it cycle, because they are
        > > polluting far faster than bacteria is reproducing.
        > > paul
        >
        === message truncated ===




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7806 From: daniel_roachus Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: Food recomendations for Tropical Fish?
        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas
        Munro" <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        >
        > I have some Wild Australian Guppies (17 or so) and 8 Tiger Barbs in
        a
        > 250 litre tank.
        >
        > I'm currently feeding them gold fish flakes but the flakes smell bad
        > after 15minutes in the water, what would you suggest i feed the
        fish?
        >

        What's the food doing in the water for 15 minutes? you should only
        feed what they can eat om 2 or 3 minutes!


        Try tropical flakes, and maybe freeze dried bloodworm as a treat...
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7807 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: PEOPLE LIKE STEVE
        i always find it amazing that people like steve will
        take the time to tell people that are experienced and
        offering to share their experienxces and successes
        that they are wrong and he is right. he sure does
        have a lot of angles to tell you that you are wrong,
        but seems not to have anything to say when people with
        2 months experience think they should tell others who
        are new to the hobby that their tank will be cycled in
        1 day and can be fully stocked in 1 week without any
        problems down the road......kinda funny huh? i think
        that it is pretty strange that he wants to tell me
        that i am doing something wrong when i run marine
        systems that are 3 years old withour a single loss,
        and marine fish are 2x as sensitive as fresh, and my
        fresh water fish are mostly 2-3 year old fry that came
        from parents taht i had even longer than that. is that
        strange or is it just me?
        --- daniel_roachus <daniel_roach@...> wrote:

        >
        > --- In
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
        > "Nicolas
        > Munro" <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi,
        > >
        > >
        > > I have some Wild Australian Guppies (17 or so) and
        > 8 Tiger Barbs in
        > a
        > > 250 litre tank.
        > >
        > > I'm currently feeding them gold fish flakes but
        > the flakes smell bad
        > > after 15minutes in the water, what would you
        > suggest i feed the
        > fish?
        > >
        >
        > What's the food doing in the water for 15 minutes?
        > you should only
        > feed what they can eat om 2 or 3 minutes!
        >
        >
        > Try tropical flakes, and maybe freeze dried
        > bloodworm as a treat...
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7808 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        Well, not to downplay others experience, but I do think you can cycle a tank in under a week -  because I've done it.   My first tank was a 36 gallon - I cycled it the old fashion way - with fish and several months.   It was rough on the fish - lost a few of them - and I had lots of problems with the water for several months - mainly ammonia - but finally got it to a stable point and things have been good for over a year.   When I went to set up my two new tanks - I looked for ways to avoid the problems - hence the Bio-Spira and the Stability products.  While I'm sure other people have had different results - I followed the directions to the letter for each product - and they have both worked.   Two and Three months respectively after set-up I have had minor losses (1 emperor Tetra and 1 blue ram - both of which I attribute to the fish health vs water - as they died with a day or so of being added to the tank - plus I have another emperor and another ram - in same tank introduced at same time - that have done great).   This was the tank I used Stability on.   On my larger tank - 100 gallons - I did Bio-Spira to start - then added stability at water change time.   ZERO losses two months in - fish are doing great - and water quality is excellent.   So - the products can and do work.  I'm also pretty meticulous with the tanks - which helps some also.
         
        While not for everyone - it is an alternative to cycling a tank.   Don't knock it unless you've tried it - while not speaking with 30 years experience - I am speaking from a recent successful experience.  Don't argue with facts.  It's a faster way to get your tanks up and running - and is much more humane than using starter fish.
         
        Al
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7809 From: Florence Ivy Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        so i guess what we're all saying is that we enjoy bickering and
        personal attacks in here?
        On Jan 14, 2005, at 12:39 PM, paul helms wrote:

        > i always find it amazing that people like steve will
        > take the time to tell people that are experienced and
        > offering to share their experienxces and successes
        > that they are wrong and he is right.  he sure does
        > have a lot of angles to tell you that you are wrong,
        > but seems not to have anything to say when people with
        > 2 months experience think they should tell others who
        > are new to the hobby that their tank will be cycled in
        > 1 day and can be fully stocked in 1 week without any
        > problems down the road......kinda funny huh?  i think
        > that it is pretty strange that he wants to tell me
        > that i am doing something wrong when i run marine
        > systems that are 3 years old withour a single loss,
        > and marine fish are 2x as sensitive as fresh, and my
        > fresh water fish are mostly 2-3 year old fry that came
        > from parents taht i had even longer than that. is that
        > strange or is it just me?
        > --- daniel_roachus <daniel_roach@...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > --- In
        > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
        > > "Nicolas
        > > Munro" <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hi,
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I have some Wild Australian Guppies (17 or so) and
        > > 8 Tiger Barbs in
        > > a
        > > > 250 litre tank.
        > > >
        > > > I'm currently feeding them gold fish flakes but
        > > the flakes smell bad
        > > > after 15minutes in the water, what would you
        > > suggest i feed the
        > > fish?
        > > >
        > >
        > > What's the food doing in the water for 15 minutes?
        > > you should only
        > > feed what they can eat om 2 or 3 minutes!
        > >
        > >
        > > Try tropical flakes, and maybe freeze dried
        > > bloodworm as a treat...
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >            
        > __________________________________
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        > The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
        > http://my.yahoo.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        >  
        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >  
        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        > Service.
        >
        >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7810 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
            People always start complaining when they see an argument on the internet.  I don't know why, people don't always get along in the real world either, even people who are friends sometimes fight.  Especially when it is over something they care a lot about.  I once had a bad feeling when I saw such things, but I have come to realize that the debates end and things calm down and we go on, just like real life.  I guess even on-line, we are all still human.
            Paul doesn't do many water changes.  Steve does do water changes.  This is a debate older than I am, twice as old as I am at least, so it isn't going to be settled.  I don't even know why such "experienced" people are still debating this issue, but I have a guess.  It is because both sides care a lot about their fish, and believe strongly in their fishkeeping methods.  Strong beliefs are important to me, but I think we should also have respect for those who believe differently.  At the same time, challenging those beliefs is not a problem.  Just don't get mad when your beliefs are also challenged.  Stay calm, listen cautiously, and then respond as politely as possible with the two word statement "that's nice".
         
        Dr. Patrick?
        -------Original Message-------
        so i guess what we're all saying is that we enjoy bickering and personal attacks in here?
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7811 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Digest Number 567..."CYCLING"
        In a message dated 1/14/05 3:47:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:


        Well, not to downplay others experience, but I do think you can cycle a  tank
        in under a week -  because I've done it.   My first tank was  a 36 gallon - I
        cycled it the old fashion way - with fish and several  months.   

        ============================================================
        Not to be argumemtative but:  I first started in the aquarium hobby about 35 years ago, before I ever heard the word "cycle."
        I would get my tank up to room temp - as close to 72/76 degrees as possible, with a heater if necessary, and go buy some fish.  Since I was on a well, I didn't have to worry about chlorine, etc.

        I would slowly acclimate the fish by slowly adding water from my tank to the new bag of fish, which was floating in the tank,  over a few hours, then dump the fish in the tank.

        Over a period of about 10 years, I raised cichlids, livebearers, bettas, basically many different types of fresh and brackish water fishes.  I did water changes as I decided they were necessary.

        When I read all the emphasis on "cycling" I wonder if there is too much made about it - or was I just lucky ????????????




        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7812 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        Patrick - well stated.   I agree!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7813 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Question
        Was just checking out my happy little 36 gallon mixed semi aggressive community tank.   I noticed on some of my decor (plastics) that the fake little green plants have a wispy, cottony looking black fuzzy growing out of them?   Doesn't look like the algae eaters are after it at all.  Also see the beginnings of it growing on a fake plant?  Anyone have any ideas/insight on what it might be?  Tank has been up and running for over a year.  Ammonia and Nitrites are at zero.  Nitrate was at .2 ppm?  I recently had to move the tank into a room with more light (about 2 months ago) - is this some kind of algae growing in it?
         
        Thanks in advance all...
         
        Al
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7814 From: joequality1980 Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        just out of curiousity...

        how do you pronounce "Smrtlauf" and where is its origin?
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7815 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        yes it is algae, and none of the plecos that i have
        encountered eat it. it is a natural filter, and not
        harmful, but if it bother you, it can be removed by
        hand. you can also cut back on feeding to reduce the
        amount and rate that it grows.
        paul
        --- alglea@... wrote:

        > Was just checking out my happy little 36 gallon
        > mixed semi aggressive
        > community tank. I noticed on some of my decor
        > (plastics) that the fake little
        > green plants have a wispy, cottony looking black
        > fuzzy growing out of them?
        > Doesn't look like the algae eaters are after it at
        > all. Also see the
        > beginnings of it growing on a fake plant? Anyone
        > have any ideas/insight on what it
        > might be? Tank has been up and running for over a
        > year. Ammonia and Nitrites
        > are at zero. Nitrate was at .2 ppm? I recently
        > had to move the tank into a
        > room with more light (about 2 months ago) - is this
        > some kind of algae
        > growing in it?
        >
        > Thanks in advance all...
        >
        > Al
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7816 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        i have been calm so far Pat, but i do the same as you
        and offer my opinion and experience where applicable.
        we definately have different beliefs on several
        subjects, but we have enough mutual respect not to
        tell teh other that they are wrong, just because it is
        different. i don't know why this guy is on a kick to
        piss me off, but he sure had to chime in directly to
        me to tell me i was wrong, and that i am doing
        something wrong, when i don't lose fish and have only
        had illness of any type once in 10 years. i do not
        take kindly to that when i was responding to someone
        who asked me a specific question.
        --- "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
        <americanfishguy@...> wrote:

        > People always start complaining when they see an
        > argument on the
        > internet. I don't know why, people don't always get
        > along in the real world
        > either, even people who are friends sometimes fight.
        > Especially when it is
        > over something they care a lot about. I once had a
        > bad feeling when I saw
        > such things, but I have come to realize that the
        > debates end and things calm
        > down and we go on, just like real life. I guess
        > even on-line, we are all
        > still human.
        > Paul doesn't do many water changes. Steve does
        > do water changes. This
        > is a debate older than I am, twice as old as I am at
        > least, so it isn't
        > going to be settled. I don't even know why such
        > "experienced" people are
        > still debating this issue, but I have a guess. It
        > is because both sides
        > care a lot about their fish, and believe strongly in
        > their fishkeeping
        > methods. Strong beliefs are important to me, but I
        > think we should also
        > have respect for those who believe differently. At
        > the same time,
        > challenging those beliefs is not a problem. Just
        > don't get mad when your
        > beliefs are also challenged. Stay calm, listen
        > cautiously, and then respond
        > as politely as possible with the two word statement
        > "that's nice".
        >
        > Dr. Patrick?
        > -------Original Message-------
        > so i guess what we're all saying is that we enjoy
        > bickering and personal attacks in here?




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7817 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        2 months is not long enough to determine whether it
        works or not, and by doing all of this maticulous work
        you mention, you are keeping it healthy, not the tank
        itself.
        --- alglea@... wrote:

        > Well, not to downplay others experience, but I do
        > think you can cycle a tank
        > in under a week - because I've done it. My first
        > tank was a 36 gallon - I
        > cycled it the old fashion way - with fish and
        > several months. It was rough
        > on the fish - lost a few of them - and I had lots
        > of problems with the water
        > for several months - mainly ammonia - but finally
        > got it to a stable point
        > and things have been good for over a year. When I
        > went to set up my two new
        > tanks - I looked for ways to avoid the problems -
        > hence the Bio-Spira and the
        > Stability products. While I'm sure other people
        > have had different results
        > - I followed the directions to the letter for each
        > product - and they have
        > both worked. Two and Three months respectively
        > after set-up I have had minor
        > losses (1 emperor Tetra and 1 blue ram - both of
        > which I attribute to the
        > fish health vs water - as they died with a day or
        > so of being added to the tank
        > - plus I have another emperor and another ram - in
        > same tank introduced at
        > same time - that have done great). This was the
        > tank I used Stability on.
        > On my larger tank - 100 gallons - I did Bio-Spira
        > to start - then added
        > stability at water change time. ZERO losses two
        > months in - fish are doing great
        > - and water quality is excellent. So - the
        > products can and do work. I'm
        > also pretty meticulous with the tanks - which helps
        > some also.
        >
        > While not for everyone - it is an alternative to
        > cycling a tank. Don't
        > knock it unless you've tried it - while not speaking
        > with 30 years experience -
        > I am speaking from a recent successful experience.
        > Don't argue with facts.
        > It's a faster way to get your tanks up and running
        > - and is much more humane
        > than using starter fish.
        >
        > Al
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7818 From: Angela Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: My tank
        Greetings All,

        You've helped me with the 20 gallon tank Santa brought. I thought
        I'd bring you up to date on it. We added our first fish, a Buenos
        Aires Tetra and Black Skirt Tetra two weeks ago yesterday. We've
        periodically had the water tested at the fish shop and added fish.
        As of today, we have:

        2 black skirt tetras
        1 buenos aires tetra
        3 zebra danios
        2 neon tetras
        2 emerald cory catfish
        1 lemon tetra
        1 serpae tetra
        1 frog

        Losses: 1 neon tetra (disappeared, looked everywhere and never
        found him) and two zebra danio's died last night. The water had a
        slight amount of ammonia and I did a 4-5 gallon water change (first
        change since fish were added). I was in a hurry and forgot to de-
        chlorinate the water and they died very quickly. Once I realized
        what I'd done, I added the de-chlorinator and the others have
        survived.

        Now my question, what should I be on the lookout for? When will I
        be considered through the danger zone and be considered "cycled"?

        Angela in Richmond, VA
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7819 From: Florence Ivy Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        that's fine. if all are agreed it makes the mod job even easier.
        amalthea
        On Jan 14, 2005, at 4:12 PM, Patrick, The American Fish Guy wrote:

        >     People always start complaining when they see an argument on the
        > internet.  I don't know why, people don't always get along in the real
        > world either, even people who are friends sometimes fight.  Especially
        > when it is over something they care a lot about.  I once had a bad
        > feeling when I saw such things, but I have come to realize that the
        > debates end and things calm down and we go on, just like real life.  I
        > guess even on-line, we are all still human.
        >     Paul doesn't do many water changes.  Steve does do water changes. 
        > This is a debate older than I am, twice as old as I am at least, so it
        > isn't going to be settled.  I don't even know why such "experienced"
        > people are still debating this issue, but I have a guess.  It is
        > because both sides care a lot about their fish, and believe strongly
        > in their fishkeeping methods.  Strong beliefs are important to me, but
        > I think we should also have respect for those who believe
        > differently.  At the same time, challenging those beliefs is not a
        > problem.  Just don't get mad when your beliefs are also challenged. 
        > Stay calm, listen cautiously, and then respond as politely as possible
        > with the two word statement "that's nice".
        >  
        > Dr. Patrick?
        >
        > -------Original Message-------
        > so i guess what we're all saying is that we enjoy bickering and
        > personal attacks in here?
        >
        > <imstp_emo_en.gif>
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        >  
        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >  
        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        > Service.
        >
        >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7820 From: Florence Ivy Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        I actually got excited when some of this started growing in my tank. it
        took a long time, but i think it makes things look really natural.
        amalthea
        On Jan 14, 2005, at 6:58 PM, paul helms wrote:

        > yes it is algae, and none of the plecos that i have
        > encountered eat it.  it is a natural filter, and not
        > harmful, but if it bother you, it can be removed by
        > hand.  you can also cut back on feeding to reduce the
        > amount and rate that it grows.
        > paul
        > --- alglea@... wrote:
        >
        > > Was just checking out my happy little 36 gallon
        > > mixed semi aggressive 
        > > community tank.   I noticed on some of my decor
        > > (plastics) that the  fake little
        > > green plants have a wispy, cottony looking black
        > > fuzzy growing out  of them?  
        > > Doesn't look like the algae eaters are after it at
        > > all.  Also see the
        > > beginnings of it growing on a fake plant?  Anyone
        > > have any ideas/insight on what it
        > > might be?  Tank has been up and running  for over a
        > > year.  Ammonia and Nitrites
        > > are at zero.  Nitrate was at .2  ppm?  I recently
        > > had to move the tank into a
        > > room with more light (about 2  months ago) - is this
        > > some kind of algae
        > > growing in it?
        > > 
        > > Thanks in advance all...
        > > 
        > > Al
        > >
        >
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7821 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        I agree!  It looks pretty awesome as it's growing amongst fake green flowers with a red center!  I just wanted to make sure it wasn't anything harmful as my CAE won't touch it.
         
        Thanks all!
         
        Al
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7822 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        Well...time will tell - but so far so good.  I'll use either/both again if I set up another tank.  Although I'm pretty sure my wife will kibosh that one.   Would sure like a 55 gal with a few Mbuna's!
         
        Al
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7823 From: Florence Ivy Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        Get some driftwood. It will likely spread onto it and that looks really
        fabulous!
        On Jan 14, 2005, at 8:26 PM, alglea@... wrote:

        > I agree!  It looks pretty awesome as it's growing amongst fake green
        > flowers with a red center!  I just wanted to make sure it wasn't
        > anything harmful as my CAE won't touch it.
        >  
        > Thanks all!
        >  
        > Al
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7824 From: Angela Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Ich
        Both of my black skirt tetras have little white bubble-like things
        on their top, bottom and tailfins. Is this Ich? None of the other
        fish seem to have it. There are bubbles from a air pumped clam
        decoration, so the tank has a lot of tiny bubbles in it from that
        and the filter.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7825 From: Steve Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        Many of the fish I have kept lived their normal life span. There have been
        some fish I have had problems with, either because I did not completely
        understand their needs, or for some other reason. I will eventually try some
        of them again, to see if I have learned anything about their husbandry.

        Oldest living critter in the house right now is a 16 year old sheltie. We
        recently had to have an 11 year old put down because of a brain tumor that
        was affecting her adversely. We also have a 14 year old border collie mix,
        and another sheltie that is 12. The other pup is a much younger 2. We also
        have a cat--mine--that is more than 13 years old, but I cannot put an exact
        age on her because I can't remember exactly when she decided to own me, but
        it may be as many as 4 or 5 more years. The other cat, a Ragdoll, as opposed
        to my Heinz 57, is 4 years old.

        I do not have fish in the house at the present. My 12 to 18 hour days have
        put the kibosh on the fish for the time being. I just do not have the time
        to properly care for them. Soon as the boss man sees fit to hire someone
        else, I'll be right back into it.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
        Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 12:15 PM
        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
        AquaticLife ] Re: bacterial filter



        riiight buddy. that is an avergae based on short life
        after introduction. in other words i would never
        claim that 100% of my fish live to be heir full
        expectancy or higher. the tank is only 3 years old at
        the moment, and the average age of the fish is 2-3
        years old. those are not all in the this tank either.
        i have been keeping fresh water for over 10 years and
        there are a few from the last tank in this one. there
        are a few cori's in there that are 4 and a 2 year old
        ghost shrip and a 3 1/2 year old kuhli loach. as far
        as the angels go, i bought them at the size of a
        quarter and sold them when their bodies were the size
        of a silver dollar, they were bought and sold to helpp
        pay for the hobby. i lost one out of 30 babies in
        that whole process. there is nothing wrong with the
        way i keep and care for any of my pets. i guarantee
        that my average pets life span is longer than yours.
        i have had an 11 year old guninnea pig, 22 year old
        poodle, 15 year old german shepard, 19 year old cats,
        5 year old hamsetrs, 6 year old betta, 11 year old
        serpent stars, etc. what about you?

        --- Steve <steve@...> wrote:

        > Many fish, particularly the angels and corys that
        > you mention, have expected
        > life spans of more than three years.
        >
        > Guppies can be expected to live for up to 4 years.
        > Mollies have a life span
        > of at least three years. Corydoras spp. can be
        > expected to live for at least
        > 5 years. Angelfish can be expected to live for more
        > than 10 years. If you
        > are only getting 2-2 years out of these fish, you
        > are doing something wrong.
        > It could be the water. It could be the diet. It
        > could be the temperature. In
        > any case, you should examine your husbandry
        > practices to determine why your
        > fish are not living to their full potential.
        >
        > \\Steve//
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
        > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 2:31 AM
        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group
        > name soon to be
        > AquaticLife ] Re: bacterial filter
        >
        >
        >
        > if you will notice from my posts, i make damn sure
        > to
        > let people know that i am expressing my experiences,
        > and do not tell people not to change water, but
        > rather
        > to make sure that it on small scales. not biweekly
        > 20% water changes. if your tank is healthy, water
        > changes are only required to take care of the things
        > that do build up over time. most of my post do also
        > state that i belive in 5-10% water chnages bi
        > weekly,
        > not exceeding 20% per month. in my case, i have set
        > up my tanks through a fishless 6 week cycle and
        > stocked my tanks very slowly, adding 1-2 fish per
        > week
        > until stocked to where i am satisfied. i have had
        > one
        > instance of ick since 1995. i have never had a fish
        > with any other illness, and my fish live 2-3 years
        > on
        > average. i mainatin both fresh and saltwater, and i
        > do top off with r.o. water whenever possible (80%) f
        > the time. the way that i have setup my tanks allows
        > me to not have to do water changes...it has nthing
        > to
        > do with laziness at all. my cori's, guppies,
        > mollies,
        > and angels have all bred in my tanks, which will not
        > be done in poor quality water (excess for live
        > bearers). and i have 10 year old serpent stars in
        > my
        > saltwater tanks that would lose all of their limbs
        > if
        > anythig was out of balance. so basically i really
        > don't care if you want to or will agree with me, but
        > i
        > have every right to relate my experience here,
        > especially when people are being advised that they
        > do
        > not need bio filers and that " it is a process not a
        > filter", " all you need is gravel".
        > --- Steve <steve@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Paul,
        > >
        > > I cannot and will not agree with your no water
        > > change philosophy. While your
        > > over filtration may help with the maintenance of
        > > ammonia and nitrites at
        > > acceptable levels, it will do nothing to remove
        > > nitrates. A high level of
        > > nitrates has been blamed to cause certain disease
        > > type activity in fish,
        > > such as hole in the head and lateral line erosion.
        > > Plants might help with
        > > maintaining a level of nitrates low enough to
        > > prevent such things from
        > > happening.
        > >
        > > Unless you are using distilled water for replacing
        > > evaporated water, the
        > > level of minerals present in the water will rise,
        > > albeit at a low rate, and
        > > the fish may be able to adapt to this to a certain
        > > extent. However, if your
        > > water contains heavy metals, the fish will not be
        > > able to adapt, and thus
        > > begin to fail.
        > >
        > > Fish release various hormones into the water.
        > Among
        > > these are a hormone that
        > > will slow, if not stop, growth in the resident
        > fish,
        > > including those that
        > > release it.
        > >
        > > Regular water changes will remove those things
        > that
        > > are harmful to your
        > > fish, and using regular water will help replace
        > > trace metals that are used
        > > by the fish and plants in the tank.
        > >
        > > I've been in and around the hobby for a good
        > number
        > > of years, and have done
        > > quite a bit of historical reading. Every so often
        > > there is someone coming
        > > around claiming to be able to keep an aquarium for
        > > years without doing water
        > > changes. They usually do develop a following
        > > because, hey, who wants to do
        > > all the work with doing the water changes? I'm as
        > > lazy as the next guy,
        > > maybe more so--especially if you listen to my
        > girl.
        > > (Just because I am not
        > > doing the things that she thinks I ought to be
        > doing
        > > at any given point in
        > > time.) However, all my reading has shown that
        > > regular water changes provide
        > > a valuable function in a closed system, such as an
        > > aquarium.
        > >
        > > I judge fish shows now and again. One of the
        > things
        > > I am always disappointed
        > > by is the size of the fish. Seldom does one see
        > full
        > > grown specimens of any
        > > species. Part of this may be the result of
        > breeding,
        > > but I am also sure that
        > > part is caused by the failure to do regular water
        > > changes.
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
        > > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 2:19 AM
        > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~
        > group
        > > name soon to be
        > > AquaticLife ] Re: bacterial filter
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > i personally do not do water changes because:
        > > 1. my tank has 2-3 times the filtration required.
        > > 2. my tanks are not overstocked
        > > 3. i do not over feed.
        > > personally i do not believe that a biowheel can
        > > replace an under gravel filter with powerheads,
        > but
        > > the 2 together make for a "bullet proof" system.
        > we
        > > already had a massively huge debate on the
        > subject.
        > > unfortunatey heavily planted tanks can't use ug
        > > filters because the roots will clog them. in that
        > > case a biowheel is perfect. i have gone as long
        > as
        > > 3
        > > years without doing a water change....only topping
        > > off, so yes cycling the tank (which takes 4-6
        > weeks,
        > > not 3 days) will help. whie products such as
        > > "cycle"
        > > clai to work in 3 days....they can't make bacteria
        > > grow and reproduce in that span of time. it is a
        > > completely false label. if you wait only three
        > days,
        > > you may as well have waited 3 hours. as far as
        > > anaerobic bacteria being the one that gases off
        > > nitrogen, you are correct, but the anaerobic
        > > bacteria
        > > can't perform that function if there is any oxygen
        > > present, so it ends up polluting the water in this
        > > situation. one other note is that if you are
        > > reaching
        > > 40ppm in as little as 1-2 weeks, the tank is no
        > > where
        > > near cycled, you are basically restarting teh
        > tanks
        > > cycle over and over. the number of fish (80)in
        > the
        > > tank will never let it cycle, because they are
        > > polluting far faster than bacteria is reproducing.
        > > paul
        >
        === message truncated ===




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7826 From: Steve Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        I'm just replying to what Paul says. While there seems to be plenty of
        anecdotal evidence for not doing water changes, it has not been duplicated
        in a controlled situation. I started keeping fish at a time when even
        undergravel filtration was not known, when biological filtration was not
        understood. Today we have a lot more we can lay our hands on in the way of
        science to underpin our hobby.

        A while ago, I got slammed on biological filtration, even though I cited
        sources for my information. Those who were doing the slamming never cited
        one source. If need be, I'll look up the references and start citing again.
        Paul does not like to do water changes. So far, he claims to be successful.
        However, over the years, I've heard this over and over again. All the
        proponents have faded back into the woodwork, and no solid science has come
        out in their support.

        This forum has a large number of novice fishkeepers looking for information.
        We are all better off if they can receive good information so they can keep
        their fish alive. Since I have been around fish since I was a babe (my
        father kept fish, and his mother also kept fish), I have learned a lot over
        the years. There are some things I can finesse that I would not advise a
        novice to do. A novice needs a good grounding in the basics of aquarium
        keeping. Water changes are one of the things that need to be done. Regular
        water changes can solve or prevent a number of situations a novice may be
        faced with. Once a novice has had success, then they can go off and
        experiment with various things, such as less frequent water changes, that
        may help them with their hobby.

        For some interesting reading on one aspect of aquarium keeping that is
        easily solved by water changes, I suggest you read Chapter 7 of _Fish and
        Invertebrate Culture, 2nd Edition_, by Stephen Spotte, a book I have often
        referred to here when talking about water quality.

        \\Steve//

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy [mailto:americanfishguy@...]
        Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 4:13 PM
        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
        AquaticLife ] PEOPLE LIKE STEVE AND PAUL AND US ALL


        People always start complaining when they see an argument on the
        internet. I don't know why, people don't always get along in the real world
        either, even people who are friends sometimes fight. Especially when it is
        over something they care a lot about. I once had a bad feeling when I saw
        such things, but I have come to realize that the debates end and things calm
        down and we go on, just like real life. I guess even on-line, we are all
        still human.
        Paul doesn't do many water changes. Steve does do water changes. This
        is a debate older than I am, twice as old as I am at least, so it isn't
        going to be settled. I don't even know why such "experienced" people are
        still debating this issue, but I have a guess. It is because both sides
        care a lot about their fish, and believe strongly in their fishkeeping
        methods. Strong beliefs are important to me, but I think we should also
        have respect for those who believe differently. At the same time,
        challenging those beliefs is not a problem. Just don't get mad when your
        beliefs are also challenged. Stay calm, listen cautiously, and then respond
        as politely as possible with the two word statement "that's nice".

        Dr. Patrick?
        -------Original Message-------
        so i guess what we're all saying is that we enjoy bickering and personal
        attacks in here?




        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7827 From: Steve Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        Simply read my reply to Patrick.

        It is funny that you have not noted my replies to the people you describe.
        However, if their question has already been answered by the time I see it,
        there is no real need to repeat what has been said.

        As for your situation, again, I must say that I have seen nothing but
        anecdotal evidence about not doing water changes. Until someone can point me
        to the studies proving their case, I will maintain that water changes are a
        necessary evil of aquarium keeping.

        \\Steve//

        -----Original Message-----
        From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
        Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 12:39 PM
        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
        AquaticLife ] PEOPLE LIKE STEVE



        i always find it amazing that people like steve will
        take the time to tell people that are experienced and
        offering to share their experienxces and successes
        that they are wrong and he is right. he sure does
        have a lot of angles to tell you that you are wrong,
        but seems not to have anything to say when people with
        2 months experience think they should tell others who
        are new to the hobby that their tank will be cycled in
        1 day and can be fully stocked in 1 week without any
        problems down the road......kinda funny huh? i think
        that it is pretty strange that he wants to tell me
        that i am doing something wrong when i run marine
        systems that are 3 years old withour a single loss,
        and marine fish are 2x as sensitive as fresh, and my
        fresh water fish are mostly 2-3 year old fry that came
        from parents taht i had even longer than that. is that
        strange or is it just me?
        --- daniel_roachus <daniel_roach@...> wrote:

        >
        > --- In
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
        > "Nicolas
        > Munro" <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi,
        > >
        > >
        > > I have some Wild Australian Guppies (17 or so) and
        > 8 Tiger Barbs in
        > a
        > > 250 litre tank.
        > >
        > > I'm currently feeding them gold fish flakes but
        > the flakes smell bad
        > > after 15minutes in the water, what would you
        > suggest i feed the
        > fish?
        > >
        >
        > What's the food doing in the water for 15 minutes?
        > you should only
        > feed what they can eat om 2 or 3 minutes!
        >
        >
        > Try tropical flakes, and maybe freeze dried
        > bloodworm as a treat...
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7828 From: Steve Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        Florence,

        I dare you to point to an ad hominem argument by myself.

        \\Steve//

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Florence Ivy [mailto:amalthea23@...]
        Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 3:39 PM
        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
        AquaticLife ] PEOPLE LIKE STEVE


        so i guess what we're all saying is that we enjoy bickering and personal
        attacks in here?
        On Jan 14, 2005, at 12:39 PM, paul helms wrote:


        i always find it amazing that people like steve will
        take the time to tell people that are experienced and
        offering to share their experienxces and successes
        that they are wrong and he is right. he sure does
        have a lot of angles to tell you that you are wrong,
        but seems not to have anything to say when people with
        2 months experience think they should tell others who
        are new to the hobby that their tank will be cycled in
        1 day and can be fully stocked in 1 week without any
        problems down the road......kinda funny huh? i think
        that it is pretty strange that he wants to tell me
        that i am doing something wrong when i run marine
        systems that are 3 years old withour a single loss,
        and marine fish are 2x as sensitive as fresh, and my
        fresh water fish are mostly 2-3 year old fry that came
        from parents taht i had even longer than that. is that
        strange or is it just me?
        --- daniel_roachus <daniel_roach@...> wrote:

        >
        > --- In
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
        > "Nicolas
        > Munro" <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi,
        > >
        > >
        > > I have some Wild Australian Guppies (17 or so) and
        > 8 Tiger Barbs in
        > a
        > > 250 litre tank.
        > >
        > > I'm currently feeding them gold fish flakes but
        > the flakes smell bad
        > > after 15minutes in the water, what would you
        > suggest i feed the
        > fish?
        > >
        >
        > What's the food doing in the water for 15 minutes?
        > you should only
        > feed what they can eat om 2 or 3 minutes!
        >
        >
        > Try tropical flakes, and maybe freeze dried
        > bloodworm as a treat...
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




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        The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
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        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




        Yahoo! Groups Links

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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7829 From: Anne Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        I've never seen anything quite like that lizard fish.
        Wild.
        Anne


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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7830 From: Florence Ivy Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        steve, i'm not engaging in this either on the board, or in private.
        sorry, entertain yourself in other ways.
        On Jan 14, 2005, at 10:20 PM, Steve wrote:

        >
        > Florence,
        >
        > I dare you to point to an ad hominem argument by myself.
        >
        > \\Steve//
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Florence Ivy [mailto:amalthea23@...]
        > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 3:39 PM
        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
        > AquaticLife ] PEOPLE LIKE STEVE
        >
        >
        > so i guess what we're all saying is that we enjoy bickering and
        > personal
        > attacks in here?
        > On Jan 14, 2005, at 12:39 PM, paul helms wrote:
        >
        >
        > i always find it amazing that people like steve will
        > take the time to tell people that are experienced and
        > offering to share their experienxces and successes
        > that they are wrong and he is right. he sure does
        > have a lot of angles to tell you that you are wrong,
        > but seems not to have anything to say when people with
        > 2 months experience think they should tell others who
        > are new to the hobby that their tank will be cycled in
        > 1 day and can be fully stocked in 1 week without any
        > problems down the road......kinda funny huh? i think
        > that it is pretty strange that he wants to tell me
        > that i am doing something wrong when i run marine
        > systems that are 3 years old withour a single loss,
        > and marine fish are 2x as sensitive as fresh, and my
        > fresh water fish are mostly 2-3 year old fry that came
        > from parents taht i had even longer than that. is that
        > strange or is it just me?
        > --- daniel_roachus <daniel_roach@...> wrote:
        >
        >>
        >> --- In
        >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
        >> "Nicolas
        >> Munro" <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
        >>>
        >>> Hi,
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> I have some Wild Australian Guppies (17 or so) and
        >> 8 Tiger Barbs in
        >> a
        >>> 250 litre tank.
        >>>
        >>> I'm currently feeding them gold fish flakes but
        >> the flakes smell bad
        >>> after 15minutes in the water, what would you
        >> suggest i feed the
        >> fish?
        >>>
        >>
        >> What's the food doing in the water for 15 minutes?
        >> you should only
        >> feed what they can eat om 2 or 3 minutes!
        >>
        >>
        >> Try tropical flakes, and maybe freeze dried
        >> bloodworm as a treat...
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
        > Do you Yahoo!?
        > The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
        > http://my.yahoo.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >
        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
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        >
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        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7831 From: Anne Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        Thanks. I'm beginning to see light at the end of the
        tunnel. The amonnia odor is gone but it's still a bit
        high. With the color pads, it's hard to tell. I bought
        a test kit where you add drops to the vial but
        wouldn't you know it-you have to match the color in
        the vial to the color chart. What would be the range
        for PH? And ammonia?
        Thanks again
        Anne




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7832 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
            While I do water changes, I recognize that there is a portion of people who do have equal success not doing water changes.  You mention the number "35 years", Steve.  I have read a 40 year old book that said at that time (mid 60's), aqurists liked to brag on how old their water was, and were successful.  I would never brag about not doing a water change in a month, much less years, but that is my opinion based on my experience.  Experience is a funny thing.  Something might work for you that doesn't work for somebody else, while what works for somebody else does not work for you.  I agree with you that there might not be many studies on the issues.  I also agree no harm can be done with water changes, only good.  But there is a large group out there who don't do them and things are fine.  I don't know why or how, but it works for them.  Somebody else mentioned not remembering the nitrogen cycle being around when they got started.  The books for those days didn't mention it.  One book I read said that the nitrogen cycle could be bad for the tank so water changes should be done to prevent it. (It really would be nice if my college library would get some aquarium books written since I was born!)  I'm just starting, so I don't have much experience yet.  I read as much as possible, form opinions based on what I read, and hope it works.  One other thing I have found from the reading is that A. Steve is not wrong.  B. Paul is not wrong.  So I ask both of you, end the debate for now.  It is like a guy in a blue shirt saying blue is best and a guy in a red shirt saying red is best.  Neither is wrong.
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7833 From: Anne Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Bettas
        Patrick wrote
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon
        sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
        gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.

        I noticed you have 4 betta in your tank with a cory. I
        have 2 male bettas, (seperate homes for each) but was
        curious if I could include one of the betta in my
        10gal. aquarium with platys and mollies.
        Anne

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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7834 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
            My bettas are very young, and they are all female as far as I can tell.  Most bettas do fine with cories.  Mollies and platys are hard to say.  The betta wouldn't really be mean to them, but the mollies might turn on the betta.  My answer would be "it depends". :)
         
        Patrick
        -------Original Message-------
        I noticed you have 4 betta in your tank with a cory. I
        have 2 male bettas, (seperate homes for each) but was
        curious if I could include one of the betta in my
        10gal. aquarium with platys and mollies.
        Anne
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7835 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        pat, not debating...defending. never said water
        changes were wrong, just not necessary under certain
        conditions....in other words i am more than done
        talking about it and am happy to not mention it again
        unless asked by someone who would like info on the
        topic from this side.
        paul
        --- "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
        <americanfishguy@...> wrote:

        > While I do water changes, I recognize that there
        > is a portion of people
        > who do have equal success not doing water changes.
        > You mention the number
        > 35 years", Steve. I have read a 40 year old book
        > that said at that time
        > (mid 60's), aqurists liked to brag on how old their
        > water was, and were
        > successful. I would never brag about not doing a
        > water change in a month,
        > much less years, but that is my opinion based on my
        > experience. Experience
        > is a funny thing. Something might work for you that
        > doesn't work for
        > somebody else, while what works for somebody else
        > does not work for you. I
        > agree with you that there might not be many studies
        > on the issues. I also
        > agree no harm can be done with water changes, only
        > good. But there is a
        > large group out there who don't do them and things
        > are fine. I don't know
        > why or how, but it works for them. Somebody else
        > mentioned not remembering
        > the nitrogen cycle being around when they got
        > started. The books for those
        > days didn't mention it. One book I read said that
        > the nitrogen cycle could
        > be bad for the tank so water changes should be done
        > to prevent it. (It
        > really would be nice if my college library would get
        > some aquarium books
        > written since I was born!) I'm just starting, so I
        > don't have much
        > experience yet. I read as much as possible, form
        > opinions based on what I
        > read, and hope it works. One other thing I have
        > found from the reading is
        > that A. Steve is not wrong. B. Paul is not wrong.
        > So I ask both of you,
        > end the debate for now. It is like a guy in a blue
        > shirt saying blue is
        > best and a guy in a red shirt saying red is best.
        > Neither is wrong.
        >
        > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
        >
        > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
        > Cycle.
        > Nitrogen Cycle
        > About my tanks:
        > 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        > -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
        > skirt tetras, 2
        > home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli
        > cories, 1 pleco, one
        > female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
        > banana plants, java ferns,
        > hornwort, and amazon swords.
        > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
        > 30-60 power filter.
        > 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        > -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        > -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
        > amazon sword.
        > -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
        > gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7836 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        ph depdends on your fish, it can range from 5-9
        depending. 7 is obviously neutral. ammonia should be
        as close to 0 as possible.
        --- Anne <md_gustoby@...> wrote:

        > Thanks. I'm beginning to see light at the end of the
        > tunnel. The amonnia odor is gone but it's still a
        > bit
        > high. With the color pads, it's hard to tell. I
        > bought
        > a test kit where you add drops to the vial but
        > wouldn't you know it-you have to match the color in
        > the vial to the color chart. What would be the range
        > for PH? And ammonia?
        > Thanks again
        > Anne
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
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        > The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
        > http://my.yahoo.com
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7837 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        great, you do that!
        --- Steve <steve@...> wrote:

        > Simply read my reply to Patrick.
        >
        > It is funny that you have not noted my replies to
        > the people you describe.
        > However, if their question has already been answered
        > by the time I see it,
        > there is no real need to repeat what has been said.
        >
        > As for your situation, again, I must say that I have
        > seen nothing but
        > anecdotal evidence about not doing water changes.
        > Until someone can point me
        > to the studies proving their case, I will maintain
        > that water changes are a
        > necessary evil of aquarium keeping.
        >
        > \\Steve//
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
        > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 12:39 PM
        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group
        > name soon to be
        > AquaticLife ] PEOPLE LIKE STEVE
        >
        >
        >
        > i always find it amazing that people like steve will
        > take the time to tell people that are experienced
        > and
        > offering to share their experienxces and successes
        > that they are wrong and he is right. he sure does
        > have a lot of angles to tell you that you are wrong,
        > but seems not to have anything to say when people
        > with
        > 2 months experience think they should tell others
        > who
        > are new to the hobby that their tank will be cycled
        > in
        > 1 day and can be fully stocked in 1 week without any
        > problems down the road......kinda funny huh? i
        > think
        > that it is pretty strange that he wants to tell me
        > that i am doing something wrong when i run marine
        > systems that are 3 years old withour a single loss,
        > and marine fish are 2x as sensitive as fresh, and my
        > fresh water fish are mostly 2-3 year old fry that
        > came
        > from parents taht i had even longer than that. is
        > that
        > strange or is it just me?
        > --- daniel_roachus <daniel_roach@...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > --- In
        > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
        > > "Nicolas
        > > Munro" <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hi,
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I have some Wild Australian Guppies (17 or so)
        > and
        > > 8 Tiger Barbs in
        > > a
        > > > 250 litre tank.
        > > >
        > > > I'm currently feeding them gold fish flakes but
        > > the flakes smell bad
        > > > after 15minutes in the water, what would you
        > > suggest i feed the
        > > fish?
        > > >
        > >
        > > What's the food doing in the water for 15 minutes?
        > > you should only
        > > feed what they can eat om 2 or 3 minutes!
        > >
        > >
        > > Try tropical flakes, and maybe freeze dried
        > > bloodworm as a treat...
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
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        >
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when
        > replying, thanks
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7838 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        without a good picture it could be many things
        including fungal or bacterial infections, not to
        mention parasites like ich.
        --- Angela <angelasjenkins@...> wrote:

        >
        > Both of my black skirt tetras have little white
        > bubble-like things
        > on their top, bottom and tailfins. Is this Ich?
        > None of the other
        > fish seem to have it. There are bubbles from a air
        > pumped clam
        > decoration, so the tank has a lot of tiny bubbles in
        > it from that
        > and the filter.
        >
        >
        >
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7839 From: Anne Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        "My bettas are very young, and they are all female
        ..."


        I've had one of the bettas for over 2 years. He's
        gorgeous, a beautiful blue. The other betta (Big Red)
        is a new addition. I was in Walmart getting some
        dogfood and saw this poor guy in about an 2 inches of
        scummy water. I've read they are community fish in one
        article and are best in a place by themselves in
        another. (Male bettas, I don't know about
        females.)Same with the whole debate about doing water
        changes. The aquarium store told me to do a 50% water
        change, the folks at Tetra told me I should do a 25%
        change and 2 days later repeat it. I guess everyone
        has their own methods. It's great, as someone really
        new at aquariums, to hear both sides. Both have merit.

        Anne



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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7840 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        after your ammonia spike 2-3 weeks, everything will go
        into a slow decline of another 2-3 weeks. small water
        changes will keep things lower, but result in a bit
        slower cycle of about 8 weeks, but it may be necessary
        looking at your bio load.
        paul
        --- Angela <angelasjenkins@...> wrote:

        >
        > Greetings All,
        >
        > You've helped me with the 20 gallon tank Santa
        > brought. I thought
        > I'd bring you up to date on it. We added our first
        > fish, a Buenos
        > Aires Tetra and Black Skirt Tetra two weeks ago
        > yesterday. We've
        > periodically had the water tested at the fish shop
        > and added fish.
        > As of today, we have:
        >
        > 2 black skirt tetras
        > 1 buenos aires tetra
        > 3 zebra danios
        > 2 neon tetras
        > 2 emerald cory catfish
        > 1 lemon tetra
        > 1 serpae tetra
        > 1 frog
        >
        > Losses: 1 neon tetra (disappeared, looked
        > everywhere and never
        > found him) and two zebra danio's died last night.
        > The water had a
        > slight amount of ammonia and I did a 4-5 gallon
        > water change (first
        > change since fish were added). I was in a hurry and
        > forgot to de-
        > chlorinate the water and they died very quickly.
        > Once I realized
        > what I'd done, I added the de-chlorinator and the
        > others have
        > survived.
        >
        > Now my question, what should I be on the lookout
        > for? When will I
        > be considered through the danger zone and be
        > considered "cycled"?
        >
        > Angela in Richmond, VA
        >
        >
        >
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7841 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
            Just thought I would add, right after I typed that message, I took one out of the tank and moved her to a bowl until I find here a home, and the other is in a breeder net.  They have just now learned that they are fighting fish. :( 
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7842 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
            Not to mention that it could just be air bubbles that were in the water and collected on the fish during a water change with water that had not gassed out or was colder than the tank water. :) 
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        -------Original Message-------
        without a good picture it could be many things
        including fungal or bacterial infections, not to
        mention parasites like ich.
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7843 From: paul helms Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: aquatraders
        has anyone bought from Aquatraders? i am thinking
        about buying a cf light for my refugium on my 180
        gallon salt water tank....but am not familiar with
        their brand ....odyssea
        paul



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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7844 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        just for your Info a CAE isn't a real algae eater. they are mostly nice little guys until they grow up then will become a real pain in the rear.....  Like eating other fish, sucking body slime off other fish. They don't really eat algae, just odds and ends found in the tank..... Oh ya and they are not from china 
         
        my 2cents
        rob
        NE Indiana
        USA
         
         
        In a message dated 1/14/2005 7:28:51 PM Central Standard Time, alglea@... writes:
         
         
         
        I agree!  It looks pretty awesome as it's growing amongst fake green flowers with a red center!  I just wanted to make sure it wasn't anything harmful as my CAE won't touch it.
         
        Thanks all!
         
        Al
         
        Robert
        NE Indiana
        USA
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7845 From: Florence Ivy Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        i have, i just bought two filters from them for a 30 gallon x that we
        got for our kitchen. the prices were low and everything was received in
        good order. i plan to order again soon!

        On Jan 14, 2005, at 11:49 PM, paul helms wrote:

        > has anyone bought from Aquatraders? i am thinking
        > about buying a cf light for my refugium on my 180
        > gallon salt water tank....but am not familiar with
        > their brand ....odyssea
        > paul
        >
        >
        >            
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        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        >  
        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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        > Service.
        >
        >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7846 From: loie Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        I purchased a Jebo light system , very happy with it, and reasonably priced items as well.
        Lois

        Florence Ivy <amalthea23@...> wrote:
        i have, i just bought two filters from them for a 30 gallon x that we
        got for our kitchen. the prices were low and everything was received in
        good order. i plan to order again soon!

        On Jan 14, 2005, at 11:49 PM, paul helms wrote:

        > has anyone bought from Aquatraders? i am thinking
        > about buying a cf light for my refugium on my 180
        > gallon salt water tank....but am not familiar with
        > their brand ....odyssea
        > paul
        >
        >
        >            
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        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        >  
        > � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >  
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        >


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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7847 From: loie Date: 1/14/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        I know, looks like it would be in some si-fi movie!!!

        Anne <md_gustoby@...> wrote:
        I've never seen anything quite like that lizard fish.
        Wild.
        Anne


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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7848 From: Elyse Date: 1/15/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        Hi all:

        I have been a member of this group for some time now. I mostly lurk, only
        occasionally posting a reply. I do not think I ever introduced myself. My
        name is Elyse; I am 35 and live in Sarasota, FL. I am a life long fish
        keeper.

        My 7 tanks:
        1. 90 Gallon - filtered by 2 MarineLand Bio-Wheel 400's - 11 Clown Loaches,
        3 Leporinus, 3 HeadStanders, 3 Puffers, 3 Albino Tin-Foil Barbs, 3 Queen
        Botias, 3 Skunk Botias, 3 Yo-yo Botias, 3 Albino Rainbow Sharks, 1 Red-Tail
        Shark, 1 Rainbow Shark, 1 Synodontis Decorous, 1 Synodontis Euripotus (sp?),
        1 Clown Pleco, 1 Tiger Pleco, 1 Common Pleco
        2. 90 Gallon - filtered by 2 MarineLand Bio-Wheel 400's - Large goldfish.
        Orandas, Ryukin's, etc.
        3. 55 Gallon - filtered by 2 Whisper 60's - Fully Planted, with 8 Koi. In
        tank during pond construction.
        4. 55 Gallon - filtered by 2 Whisper 60's - 5 Tiger Barbs, 5 Albino Tiger
        Barbs, 5 Green Tiger Barbs, 5 Rosey Barbs, 2 Opaline Gouramis, 2 Gold
        Gouramis, 2 Pearl Gouramis, 2 Rubbernose Plecos.
        5. 29 Gallon - filtered by 1 MarineLand Bio-Wheel 400 - Fully Planted -
        Purple and Blue Mystery Snail Breeding tank.
        6. 29 Gallon - Filtered by 1 Whisper 60 - Fully Planted, Live Bearers,
        Hi-Fin Platties and other assorted Platties.
        7. 10 Gallon - Hospital/New Arrival tank

        I have read the debates and disagreements over the months and I have to tell
        you all, I think they are great! Please understand I am in no way condoning
        personal attacks; however the disagreements inevitably lead to lots of
        terrific information. Different practices, different experiences, they are
        all SO valuable. Even though I have been keeping fish all my life, I learn
        more from all of it and take away new ideas all the time.

        What it comes down to is the there is no right or wrong. There are
        different ways of doing things. Some things that work well for one, will
        not for others. There is never going to be a world where everyone agrees or
        does things the same way. Thank goodness, because what a boring place the
        world would be.

        There are however, best practices. After relocating to Florida, I decided
        to give up my IT career and do something I love. So, I have been working at
        my local LFS for the past year now. My addiction to fish and animals led me
        to this choice. I am responsible for the care of 65 tanks of fish
        containing over 200 varieties. My focus at the store is not sales, it is
        education. In the best interest of the fish and animals, I take the time
        daily to educate. I explain the nitrogen cycle, talk about the toxins
        present in a tank and tap water, about lighting and the hazards of
        overfeeding and the importance of water changes. Do they always listen? Of
        course not. Do the same customers come back with dead fish and sick
        animals? Yes. And sometimes, although they have "done everything right"
        there is still a death.

        Having said all of this, and getting back to the subject at hand, I do
        recommend regular water changes. The reason for this is simple. The
        average fish keeper, I have found, sees "regular" very differently than we
        (the addicts) do. If, water changes get done quarterly, I would be
        surprised. Every day I have 10 or more customers enter the store with a
        water sample. These samples from tanks old and new are usually frightening.
        I look at them amazed that fish can survive under these conditions. We all
        know that fish are amazing creatures and when slowly acclimated to can
        survive a whole lot more than we give them credit for. Again, I use the
        word survive, not thrive.

        There are so many factors involved with keeping a good chemistry in our
        tanks. The larger bodies of water, I have found, are easier to maintain.
        How many fish are in the tank? What kind of fish? How much are they being
        fed? How much light is shining on them daily, etc, etc. All of these
        things and more have so much to do with how well maintained a tank will be.
        A ten gallon tank with 5 guppies is going to need a lot less care than the
        same ten gallon with 5 goldfish.

        Before I step off my soapbox I wanted to add one other thing. My father,
        the person who is responsible for my fish keeping addiction and initial
        education, is now 60 years old and has kept fish for most of his life.
        Growing up there were always many tanks, salt and fresh, too many species to
        list. He bred successfully as well. ALL of his tanks, which by the way
        were never larger than a 29, NEVER had water changes (only top offs), and
        NEVER had any kind of filtration other than Underground filters with power
        heads. To this day, we battle daily over the same philosophies as I read
        here. He thinks I am nuts each time I am changing filter pads or drag out
        my house to do water changes. I still do it even though I have to hear, "I
        never did any of this", time and time again.

        Thanks!
        Elyse

        Canine Castaway's Inc.
        www.CanineCastaways.org
        www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
        The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
        The Tropical Fish Connection:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/

        -----Original Message-----
        From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
        Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 11:29 PM
        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
        AquaticLife ] PEOPLE LIKE STEVE AND PAUL AND US ALL


        pat, not debating...defending. never said water
        changes were wrong, just not necessary under certain
        conditions....in other words i am more than done
        talking about it and am happy to not mention it again
        unless asked by someone who would like info on the
        topic from this side.
        paul
        --- "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
        <americanfishguy@...> wrote:

        > While I do water changes, I recognize that there
        > is a portion of people
        > who do have equal success not doing water changes.
        > You mention the number
        > 35 years", Steve. I have read a 40 year old book
        > that said at that time
        > (mid 60's), aqurists liked to brag on how old their
        > water was, and were
        > successful. I would never brag about not doing a
        > water change in a month,
        > much less years, but that is my opinion based on my
        > experience. Experience
        > is a funny thing. Something might work for you that
        > doesn't work for
        > somebody else, while what works for somebody else
        > does not work for you. I
        > agree with you that there might not be many studies
        > on the issues. I also
        > agree no harm can be done with water changes, only
        > good. But there is a
        > large group out there who don't do them and things
        > are fine. I don't know
        > why or how, but it works for them. Somebody else
        > mentioned not remembering
        > the nitrogen cycle being around when they got
        > started. The books for those
        > days didn't mention it. One book I read said that
        > the nitrogen cycle could
        > be bad for the tank so water changes should be done
        > to prevent it. (It
        > really would be nice if my college library would get
        > some aquarium books
        > written since I was born!) I'm just starting, so I
        > don't have much
        > experience yet. I read as much as possible, form
        > opinions based on what I
        > read, and hope it works. One other thing I have
        > found from the reading is
        > that A. Steve is not wrong. B. Paul is not wrong.
        > So I ask both of you,
        > end the debate for now. It is like a guy in a blue
        > shirt saying blue is
        > best and a guy in a red shirt saying red is best.
        > Neither is wrong.
        >
        > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
        >
        > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
        > Cycle.
        > Nitrogen Cycle
        > About my tanks:
        > 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        > -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
        > skirt tetras, 2
        > home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli
        > cories, 1 pleco, one
        > female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
        > banana plants, java ferns,
        > hornwort, and amazon swords.
        > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
        > 30-60 power filter.
        > 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        > -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        > -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
        > amazon sword.
        > -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
        > gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.




        __________________________________
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        Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
        http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail


        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks

        Yahoo! Groups Links
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7849 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/15/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        "What it comes down to is the there is no right or wrong."
            I disagree with that, so I made a list of rules that are always true, no matter what, never to be broken.
         
        1. Don't pour gasoline in the fish tank and throw in a match.
         
        2. You can't take a fish out of water for too long or it will dry out.
         
        3. Don't keep a fish that can both walk and eat humans.
         
        4. Hammers + Glass aquariums = wet floor.
         
        5. When a fish is longer than the tank, the tank is not as long as the fish.
         
        6. What works for you works for you, what works for me works for me, but my way is always better.
         
        7. When doing water changes, don't confuse the soap and dechlorinator.
         
        8. Never put more than one foot of fish per gallon of water in your tank.  That would be too much.
         
        9. The more medicine you use, the less pain your fish will feel.  They will be dead, but they won't feel pain.
         
        10. Lock the guy at the fish store in a closet.
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        -------Original Message-------
         
        Date: 01/15/05 08:54:36
        Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be AquaticLife ] PEOPLE LIKE STEVE AND PAUL AND US ALL
         
        Hi all:

        I have been a member of this group for some time now.  I mostly lurk, only
        occasionally posting a reply.  I do not think I ever introduced myself.  My
        name is Elyse; I am 35 and live in Sarasota, FL.  I am a life long fish
        keeper.

        My 7 tanks:
        1.  90 Gallon - filtered by 2 MarineLand Bio-Wheel 400's - 11 Clown Loaches,
        3 Leporinus, 3 HeadStanders, 3 Puffers, 3 Albino Tin-Foil Barbs, 3 Queen
        Botias, 3 Skunk Botias, 3 Yo-yo Botias, 3 Albino Rainbow Sharks, 1 Red-Tail
        Shark, 1 Rainbow Shark, 1 Synodontis Decorous, 1 Synodontis Euripotus (sp?),
        1 Clown Pleco, 1 Tiger Pleco, 1 Common Pleco
        2.  90 Gallon - filtered by 2 MarineLand Bio-Wheel 400's - Large goldfish.
        Orandas, Ryukin's, etc.
        3.  55 Gallon - filtered by 2 Whisper 60's - Fully Planted, with 8 Koi.  In
        tank during pond construction.
        4.  55 Gallon - filtered by 2 Whisper 60's - 5 Tiger Barbs, 5 Albino Tiger
        Barbs, 5 Green Tiger Barbs, 5 Rosey Barbs, 2 Opaline Gouramis, 2 Gold
        Gouramis, 2 Pearl Gouramis, 2 Rubbernose Plecos.
        5.  29 Gallon - filtered by 1 MarineLand Bio-Wheel 400 - Fully Planted -
        Purple and Blue Mystery Snail Breeding tank.
        6.  29 Gallon - Filtered by 1 Whisper 60 - Fully Planted, Live Bearers,
        Hi-Fin Platties and other assorted Platties.
        7.  10 Gallon - Hospital/New Arrival tank

        I have read the debates and disagreements over the months and I have to tell
        you all, I think they are great!  Please understand I am in no way condoning
        personal attacks; however the disagreements inevitably lead to lots of
        terrific information.  Different practices, different experiences, they are
        all SO valuable.  Even though I have been keeping fish all my life, I learn
        more from all of it and take away new ideas all the time.

        What it comes down to is the there is no right or wrong.  There are
        different ways of doing things.  Some things that work well for one, will
        not for others.  There is never going to be a world where everyone agrees or
        does things the same way.  Thank goodness, because what a boring place the
        world would be.

        There are however, best practices.  After relocating to Florida, I decided
        to give up my IT career and do something I love.  So, I have been working at
        my local LFS for the past year now.  My addiction to fish and animals led me
        to this choice.  I am responsible for the care of 65 tanks of fish
        containing over 200 varieties.  My focus at the store is not sales, it is
        education.  In the best interest of the fish and animals, I take the time
        daily to educate.  I explain the nitrogen cycle, talk about the toxins
        present in a tank and tap water, about lighting and the hazards of
        overfeeding and the importance of water changes.  Do they always listen?  Of
        course not.  Do the same customers come back with dead fish and sick
        animals?  Yes.  And sometimes, although they have "done everything right"
        there is still a death.

        Having said all of this, and getting back to the subject at hand, I do
        recommend regular water changes.  The reason for this is simple.  The
        average fish keeper, I have found, sees "regular" very differently than we
        (the addicts) do.  If, water changes get done quarterly, I would be
        surprised.  Every day I have 10 or more customers enter the store with a
        water sample.  These samples from tanks old and new are usually frightening.
        I look at them amazed that fish can survive under these conditions.  We all
        know that fish are amazing creatures and when slowly acclimated to can
        survive a whole lot more than we give them credit for.  Again, I use the
        word survive, not thrive.

        There are so many factors involved with keeping a good chemistry in our
        tanks.  The larger bodies of water, I have found, are easier to maintain.
        How many fish are in the tank?  What kind of fish?  How much are they being
        fed?  How much light is shining on them daily, etc, etc.  All of these
        things and more have so much to do with how well maintained a tank will be.
        A ten gallon tank with 5 guppies is going to need a lot less care than the
        same ten gallon with 5 goldfish.

        Before I step off my soapbox I wanted to add one other thing.  My father,
        the person who is responsible for my fish keeping addiction and initial
        education, is now 60 years old and has kept fish for most of his life.
        Growing up there were always many tanks, salt and fresh, too many species to
        list.  He bred successfully as well.  ALL of his tanks, which by the way
        were never larger than a 29, NEVER had water changes (only top offs), and
        NEVER had any kind of filtration other than Underground filters with power
        heads.  To this day, we battle daily over the same philosophies as I read
        here.  He thinks I am nuts each time I am changing filter pads or drag out
        my house to do water changes.  I still do it even though I have to hear, "I
        never did any of this", time and time again.

        Thanks!
        Elyse

        Canine Castaway's Inc.
        www.CanineCastaways.org
        www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
        The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
        The Tropical Fish Connection:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/

        -----Original Message-----
        From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
        Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 11:29 PM
        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
        AquaticLife ] PEOPLE LIKE STEVE AND PAUL AND US ALL


        pat, not debating...defending. never said water
        changes were wrong, just not necessary under certain
        conditions....in other words i am more than done
        talking about it and am happy to not mention it again
        unless asked by someone who would like info on the
        topic from this side.
        paul
        --- "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
        <americanfishguy@...> wrote:

        >     While I do water changes, I recognize that there
        > is a portion of people
        > who do have equal success not doing water changes.
        > You mention the number
        > 35 years", Steve.  I have read a 40 year old book
        > that said at that time
        > (mid 60's), aqurists liked to brag on how old their
        > water was, and were
        > successful.  I would never brag about not doing a
        > water change in a month,
        > much less years, but that is my opinion based on my
        > experience.  Experience
        > is a funny thing.  Something might work for you that
        > doesn't work for
        > somebody else, while what works for somebody else
        > does not work for you.  I
        > agree with you that there might not be many studies
        > on the issues.  I also
        > agree no harm can be done with water changes, only
        > good.  But there is a
        > large group out there who don't do them and things
        > are fine.  I don't know
        > why or how, but it works for them.  Somebody else
        > mentioned not remembering
        > the nitrogen cycle being around when they got
        > started.  The books for those
        > days didn't mention it.  One book I read said that
        > the nitrogen cycle could
        > be bad for the tank so water changes should be done
        > to prevent it. (It
        > really would be nice if my college library would get
        > some aquarium books
        > written since I was born!)  I'm just starting, so I
        > don't have much
        > experience yet.  I read as much as possible, form
        > opinions based on what I
        > read, and hope it works.  One other thing I have
        > found from the reading is
        > that A. Steve is not wrong.  B. Paul is not wrong.
        > So I ask both of you,
        > end the debate for now.  It is like a guy in a blue
        > shirt saying blue is
        > best and a guy in a red shirt saying red is best.
        > Neither is wrong.

        > Patrick, the American Fish Guy

        > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
        > Cycle.
        > Nitrogen Cycle
        > About my tanks: 
        > 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        > -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
        > skirt tetras, 2
        > home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli
        > cories, 1 pleco, one
        > female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
        > banana plants, java ferns,
        > hornwort, and amazon swords.
        > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
        > 30-60 power filter.
        > 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        > -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        > -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
        > amazon sword.
        > -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
        > gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.



                   
        __________________________________
        Do you Yahoo!?
        Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
        http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail


        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks

        Yahoo! Groups Links












        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


         
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7850 From: Elyse Date: 1/15/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic

        Very funny.

        Thanks!
        Elyse
        elyse@...
        AIM: ElyseRachel

        Canine Castaway’s Inc.
        www.CanineCastaways.org
        www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
        The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
        The Tropical Fish Connection:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/


        From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy [mailto:americanfishguy@...]
        Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 10:29 AM
        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be AquaticLife ] right or wrong?

         

        "What it comes down to is the there is no right or wrong."

            I disagree with that, so I made a list of rules that are always true, no matter what, never to be broken.

         

        1. Don't pour gasoline in the fish tank and throw in a match.

         

        2. You can't take a fish out of water for too long or it will dry out.

         

        3. Don't keep a fish that can both walk and eat humans.

         

        4. Hammers + Glass aquariums = wet floor.

         

        5. When a fish is longer than the tank, the tank is not as long as the fish.

         

        6. What works for you works for you, what works for me works for me, but my way is always better.

         

        7. When doing water changes, don't confuse the soap and dechlorinator.

         

        8. Never put more than one foot of fish per gallon of water in your tank.  That would be too much.

         

        9. The more medicine you use, the less pain your fish will feel.  They will be dead, but they won't feel pain.

         

        10. Lock the guy at the fish store in a closet.

         

        Patrick, the American Fish Guy

         

        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.

        Nitrogen Cycle

        About my tanks:  

        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).

        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.

        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.

        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.

        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).

        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.

        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.

        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.

        -------Original Message-------

         

        Date: 01/15/05 08:54:36

        Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be AquaticLife ] PEOPLE LIKE STEVE AND PAUL AND US ALL

         

        Hi all:

        I have been a member of this group for some time now.  I mostly lurk, only
        occasionally posting a reply.  I do not think I ever introduced myself.  My
        name is Elyse; I am 35 and live in Sarasota , FL.   I am a life long fish
        keeper.

        My 7 tanks:
        1.  90 Gallon - filtered by 2 MarineLand Bio-Wheel 400's - 11 Clown Loaches,
        3 Leporinus, 3 HeadStanders, 3 Puffers, 3 Albino Tin-Foil Barbs, 3 Queen
        Botias, 3 Skunk Botias, 3 Yo-yo Botias, 3 Albino Rainbow Sharks, 1 Red-Tail
        Shark, 1 Rainbow Shark, 1 Synodontis Decorous, 1 Synodontis Euripotus (sp?),
        1 Clown Pleco, 1 Tiger Pleco, 1 Common Pleco
        2.  90 Gallon - filtered by 2 MarineLand Bio-Wheel 400's - Large goldfish.
        Orandas, Ryukin's, etc.
        3.  55 Gallon - filtered by 2 Whisper 60's - Fully Planted, with 8 Koi.  In
        tank during pond construction.
        4.  55 Gallon - filtered by 2 Whisper 60's - 5 Tiger Barbs, 5 Albino Tiger
        Barbs, 5 Green Tiger Barbs, 5 Rosey Barbs, 2 Opaline Gouramis, 2 Gold
        Gouramis, 2 Pearl Gouramis, 2 Rubbernose Plecos.
        5.  29 Gallon - filtered by 1 MarineLand Bio-Wheel 400 - Fully Planted -
        Purple and Blue Mystery Snail Breeding tank.
        6.  29 Gallon - Filtered by 1 Whisper 60 - Fully Planted, Live Bearers,
        Hi-Fin Platties and other assorted Platties.
        7.  10 Gallon - Hospital/New Arrival tank

        I have read the debates and disagreements over the months and I have to tell
        you all, I think they are great!  Please understand I am in no way condoning
        personal attacks; however the disagreements inevitably lead to lots of
        terrific information.  Different practices, different experiences, they are
        all SO valuable.  Even though I have been keeping fish all my life, I learn
        more from all of it and take away new ideas all the time.

        What it comes down to is the there is no right or wrong.  There are
        different ways of doing things.  Some things that work well for one, will
        not for others.  There is never going to be a world where everyone agrees or
        does things the same way.  Thank goodness, because what a boring place the
        world would be.

        There are however, best practices.  After relocating to Florida , I decided
        to give up my IT career and do something I love.  So, I have been working at
        my local LFS for the past year now.  My addiction to fish and animals led me
        to this choice.  I am responsible for the care of 65 tanks of fish
        containing over 200 varieties.  My focus at the store is not sales, it is
        education.  In the best interest of the fish and animals, I take the time
        daily to educate.  I explain the nitrogen cycle, talk about the toxins
        present in a tank and tap water, about lighting and the hazards of
        overfeeding and the importance of water changes.  Do they always listen?  Of
        course not.  Do the same customers come back with dead fish and sick
        animals?  Yes.  And sometimes, although they have "done everything right"
        there is still a death.

        Having said all of this, and getting back to the subject at hand, I do
        recommend regular water changes.  The reason for this is simple.  The
        average fish keeper, I have found, sees "regular" very differently than we
        (the addicts) do.  If, water changes get done quarterly, I would be
        surprised.  Every day I have 10 or more customers enter the store with a
        water sample.  These samples from tanks old and new are usually frightening.
        I look at them amazed that fish can survive under these conditions.  We all
        know that fish are amazing creatures and when slowly acclimated to can
        survive a whole lot more than we give them credit for.  Again, I use the
        word survive, not thrive.

        There are so many factors involved with keeping a good chemistry in our
        tanks.  The larger bodies of water, I have found, are easier to maintain.
        How many fish are in the tank?  What kind of fish?  How much are they being
        fed?  How much light is shining on them daily, etc, etc.  All of these
        things and more have so much to do with how well maintained a tank will be.
        A ten gallon tank with 5 guppies is going to need a lot less care than the
        same ten gallon with 5 goldfish.

        Before I step off my soapbox I wanted to add one other thing.  My father,
        the person who is responsible for my fish keeping addiction and initial
        education, is now 60 years old and has kept fish for most of his life.
        Growing up there were always many tanks, salt and fresh, too many species to
        list.  He bred successfully as well.  ALL of his tanks, which by the way
        were never larger than a 29, NEVER had water changes (only top offs), and
        NEVER had any kind of filtration other than Underground filters with power
        heads.  To this day, we battle daily over the same philosophies as I read
        here.  He thinks I am nuts each time I am changing filter pads or drag out
        my house to do water changes.  I still do it even though I have to hear, "I
        never did any of this", time and time again.

        Thanks!
        Elyse

        Canine Castaway's Inc.
        www.CanineCastaways.org
        www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
        The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
        The Tropical Fish Connection:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/

        -----Original Message-----
        From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
        Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 11:29 PM
        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
        AquaticLife ] PEOPLE LIKE STEVE AND PAUL AND US ALL


        pat, not debating...defending. never said water
        changes were wrong, just not necessary under certain
        conditions....in other words i am more than done
        talking about it and am happy to not mention it again
        unless asked by someone who would like info on the
        topic from this side.
        paul
        --- "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
        <americanfishguy@...> wrote:

        >     While I do water changes, I recognize that there
        > is a portion of people
        > who do have equal success not doing water changes.
        > You mention the number
        > 35 years", Steve.  I have read a 40 year old book
        > that said at that time
        > (mid 60's), aqurists liked to brag on how old their
        > water was, and were
        > successful.  I would never brag about not doing a
        > water change in a month,
        > much less years, but that is my opinion based on my
        > experience.  Experience
        > is a funny thing.  Something might work for you that
        > doesn't work for
        > somebody else, while what works for somebody else
        > does not work for you.  I
        > agree with you that there might not be many studies
        > on the issues.  I also
        > agree no harm can be done with water changes, only
        > good.  But there is a
        > large group out there who don't do them and things
        > are fine.  I don't know
        > why or how, but it works for them.  Somebody else
        > mentioned not remembering
        > the nitrogen cycle being around when they got
        > started.  The books for those
        > days didn't mention it.  One book I read said that
        > the nitrogen cycle could
        > be bad for the tank so water changes should be done
        > to prevent it. (It
        > really would be nice if my college library would get
        > some aquarium books
        > written since I was born!)  I'm just starting, so I
        > don't have much
        > experience yet.  I read as much as possible, form
        > opinions based on what I
        > read, and hope it works.  One other thing I have
        > found from the reading is
        > that A. Steve is not wrong.  B. Paul is not wrong.
        > So I ask both of you,
        > end the debate for now.  It is like a guy in a blue
        > shirt saying blue is
        > best and a guy in a red shirt saying red is best.
        > Neither is wrong.

        > Patrick, the American Fish Guy

        > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
        > Cycle.
        > Nitrogen Cycle
        > About my tanks: 
        > 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        > -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
        > skirt tetras, 2
        > home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli
        > cories, 1 pleco, one
        > female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
        > banana plants, java ferns,
        > hornwort, and amazon swords.
        > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
        > 30-60 power filter.
        > 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        > -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        > -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
        > amazon sword.
        > -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
        > gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.



                   
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7851 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 1/15/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        Great, entertaining post!  Thanks much for the many imaginative chuckles.  Ray
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7852 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 1/15/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        That was so funny and true, Patrick!
        Dorothy

        Elyse <elyse@...> wrote:

        Very funny.

        Thanks!
        Elyse
        elyse@...
        AIM: ElyseRachel

        Canine Castaway�s Inc.
        www.CanineCastaways.org
        www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
        The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
        The Tropical Fish Connection:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/


        From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy [mailto:americanfishguy@...]
        Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 10:29 AM
        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be AquaticLife ] right or wrong?

         

        "What it comes down to is the there is no right or wrong."

            I disagree with that, so I made a list of rules that are always true, no matter what, never to be broken.

         

        1. Don't pour gasoline in the fish tank and throw in a match.

         

        2. You can't take a fish out of water for too long or it will dry out.

         

        3. Don't keep a fish that can both walk and eat humans.

         

        4. Hammers + Glass aquariums = wet floor.

         

        5. When a fish is longer than the tank, the tank is not as long as the fish.

         

        6. What works for you works for you, what works for me works for me, but my way is always better.

         

        7. When doing water changes, don't confuse the soap and dechlorinator.

         

        8. Never put more than one foot of fish per gallon of water in your tank.  That would be too much.

         

        9. The more medicine you use, the less pain your fish will feel.  They will be dead, but they won't feel pain.

         

        10. Lock the guy at the fish store in a closet.

         

        Patrick, the American Fish Guy

         

        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.

        Nitrogen Cycle

        About my tanks:  

        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).

        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.

        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.

        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.

        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).

        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.

        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.

        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.

        -------Original Message-------

         

        Date: 01/15/05 08:54:36

        Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be AquaticLife ] PEOPLE LIKE STEVE AND PAUL AND US ALL

         

        Hi all:

        I have been a member of this group for some time now.  I mostly lurk, only
        occasionally posting a reply.  I do not think I ever introduced myself.  My
        name is Elyse; I am 35 and live in Sarasota , FL.   I am a life long fish
        keeper.

        My 7 tanks:
        1.  90 Gallon - filtered by 2 MarineLand Bio-Wheel 400's - 11 Clown Loaches,
        3 Leporinus, 3 HeadStanders, 3 Puffers, 3 Albino Tin-Foil Barbs, 3 Queen
        Botias, 3 Skunk Botias, 3 Yo-yo Botias, 3 Albino Rainbow Sharks, 1 Red-Tail
        Shark, 1 Rainbow Shark, 1 Synodontis Decorous, 1 Synodontis Euripotus (sp?),
        1 Clown Pleco, 1 Tiger Pleco, 1 Common Pleco
        2.  90 Gallon - filtered by 2 MarineLand Bio-Wheel 400's - Large goldfish.
        Orandas, Ryukin's, etc.
        3.  55 Gallon - filtered by 2 Whisper 60's - Fully Planted, with 8 Koi.  In
        tank during pond construction.
        4.  55 Gallon - filtered by 2 Whisper 60's - 5 Tiger Barbs, 5 Albino Tiger
        Barbs, 5 Green Tiger Barbs, 5 Rosey Barbs, 2 Opaline Gouramis, 2 Gold
        Gouramis, 2 Pearl Gouramis, 2 Rubbernose Plecos.
        5.  29 Gallon - filtered by 1 MarineLand Bio-Wheel 400 - Fully Planted -
        Purple and Blue Mystery Snail Breeding tank.
        6.  29 Gallon - Filtered by 1 Whisper 60 - Fully Planted, Live Bearers,
        Hi-Fin Platties and other assorted Platties.
        7.  10 Gallon - Hospital/New Arrival tank

        I have read the debates and disagreements over the months and I have to tell
        you all, I think they are great!  Please understand I am in no way condoning
        personal attacks; however the disagreements inevitably lead to lots of
        terrific information.  Different practices, different experiences, they are
        all SO valuable.  Even though I have been keeping fish all my life, I learn
        more from all of it and take away new ideas all the time.

        What it comes down to is the there is no right or wrong.  There are
        different ways of doing things.  Some things that work well for one, will
        not for others.  There is never going to be a world where everyone agrees or
        does things the same way.  Thank goodness, because what a boring place the
        world would be.

        There are however, best practices.  After relocating to Florida , I decided
        to give up my IT career and do something I love.  So, I have been working at
        my local LFS for the past year now.  My addiction to fish and animals led me
        to this choice.  I am responsible for the care of 65 tanks of fish
        containing over 200 varieties.  My focus at the store is not sales, it is
        education.  In the best interest of the fish and animals, I take the time
        daily to educate.  I explain the nitrogen cycle, talk about the toxins
        present in a tank and tap water, about lighting and the hazards of
        overfeeding and the importance of water changes.  Do they always listen?  Of
        course not.  Do the same customers come back with dead fish and sick
        animals?  Yes.  And sometimes, although they have "done everything right"
        there is still a death.

        Having said all of this, and getting back to the subject at hand, I do
        recommend regular water changes.  The reason for this is simple.  The
        average fish keeper, I have found, sees "regular" very differently than we
        (the addicts) do.  If, water changes get done quarterly, I would be
        surprised.  Every day I have 10 or more customers enter the store with a
        water sample.  These samples from tanks old and new are usually frightening.
        I look at them amazed that fish can survive under these conditions.  We all
        know that fish are amazing creatures and when slowly acclimated to can
        survive a whole lot more than we give them credit for.  Again, I use the
        word survive, not thrive.

        There are so many factors involved with keeping a good chemistry in our
        tanks.  The larger bodies of water, I have found, are easier to maintain.
        How many fish are in the tank?  What kind of fish?  How much are they being
        fed?  How much light is shining on them daily, etc, etc.  All of these
        things and more have so much to do with how well maintained a tank will be.
        A ten gallon tank with 5 guppies is going to need a lot less care than the
        same ten gallon with 5 goldfish.

        Before I step off my soapbox I wanted to add one other thing.  My father,
        the person who is responsible for my fish keeping addiction and initial
        education, is now 60 years old and has kept fish for most of his life.
        Growing up there were always many tanks, salt and fresh, too many species to
        list.  He bred successfully as well.  ALL of his tanks, which by the way
        were never larger than a 29, NEVER had water changes (only top offs), and
        NEVER had any kind of filtration other than Underground filters with power
        heads.  To this day, we battle daily over the same philosophies as I read
        here.  He thinks I am nuts each time I am changing filter pads or drag out
        my house to do water changes.  I still do it even though I have to hear, "I
        never did any of this", time and time again.

        Thanks!
        Elyse

        Canine Castaway's Inc.
        www.CanineCastaways.org
        www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
        The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
        The Tropical Fish Connection:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/

        -----Original Message-----
        From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
        Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 11:29 PM
        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
        AquaticLife ] PEOPLE LIKE STEVE AND PAUL AND US ALL


        pat, not debating...defending. never said water
        changes were wrong, just not necessary under certain
        conditions....in other words i am more than done
        talking about it and am happy to not mention it again
        unless asked by someone who would like info on the
        topic from this side.
        paul
        --- "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
        <americanfishguy@...> wrote:

        >     While I do water changes, I recognize that there
        > is a portion of people
        > who do have equal success not doing water changes.
        > You mention the number
        > 35 years", Steve.  I have read a 40 year old book
        > that said at that time
        > (mid 60's), aqurists liked to brag on how old their
        > water was, and were
        > successful.  I would never brag about not doing a
        > water change in a month,
        > much less years, but that is my opinion based on my
        > experience.  Experience
        > is a funny thing.  Something might work for you that
        > doesn't work for
        > somebody else, while what works for somebody else
        > does not work for you.  I
        > agree with you that there might not be many studies
        > on the issues.  I also
        > agree no harm can be done with water changes, only
        > good.  But there is a
        > large group out there who don't do them and things
        > are fine.  I don't know
        > why or how, but it works for them.  Somebody else
        > mentioned not remembering
        > the nitrogen cycle being around when they got
        > started.  The books for those
        > days didn't mention it.  One book I read said that
        > the nitrogen cycle could
        > be bad for the tank so water changes should be done
        > to prevent it. (It
        > really would be nice if my college library would get
        > some aquarium books
        > written since I was born!)  I'm just starting, so I
        > don't have much
        > experience yet.  I read as much as possible, form
        > opinions based on what I
        > read, and hope it works.  One other thing I have
        > found from the reading is
        > that A. Steve is not wrong.  B. Paul is not wrong.
        > So I ask both of you,
        > end the debate for now.  It is like a guy in a blue
        > shirt saying blue is
        > best and a guy in a red shirt saying red is best.
        > Neither is wrong.

        > Patrick, the American Fish Guy

        > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
        > Cycle.
        > Nitrogen Cycle
        > About my tanks: 
        > 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        > -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
        > skirt tetras, 2
        > home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli
        > cories, 1 pleco, one
        > female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
        > banana plants, java ferns,
        > hornwort, and amazon swords.
        > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
        > 30-60 power filter.
        > 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        > -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        > -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
        > amazon sword.
        > -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
        > gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.



                   
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        Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
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        Yahoo! Groups Links












        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks

         

         

         

         

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        Yahoo! Groups Links


        Do you Yahoo!?
        Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7853 From: terribryant Date: 1/15/2005
        Subject: oranda missing scales
        I have 2 oranda's in a 40 gallon tank with a few guppies. I have had
        them several months and they seem very healthy. One of them has lost
        some scales and they don't seem to be growing back. Is there anything
        I can do?

        Terri Bryant
        www.rainbowsnails.com
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7854 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/15/2005
        Subject: NAME CHANGE
        Can someone change the darn name or take out the part saying its going to be changed......    PLEASE   its hard for me to scan the 100++ plus messages I get a day to see if there is anything of intrested I want to read...
        Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be AquaticLife ] ora...
         
        ok what is this message about?  guess I have to read everyone from this group or delete everyone...
        I'd rather not delete messages but I can't possibly read everyone, or I'd be on her hours at a time.
         
        thanks for reading this message
        Back to the 163 other emails in my mailbox
        wasn't i on here this morning at 2am ?   wow 164 emails in less then 16 hrs damn I need to get rid of a few lists( all fish related)  or start getting on here more often  :-)
         
        Rob
        NE Indiana
        USA
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7855 From: harry perry Date: 1/15/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        It will be changed shortly. Yahoo is holding it up.
         
        Harry
         
        A moderator

        FortWayneFish@... wrote:
        Can someone change the darn name or take out the part saying its going to be changed......    PLEASE   its hard for me to scan the 100++ plus messages I get a day to see if there is anything of intrested I want to read...
        Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be AquaticLife ] ora...
         
        ok what is this message about?  guess I have to read everyone from this group or delete everyone...
        I'd rather not delete messages but I can't possibly read everyone, or I'd be on her hours at a time.
         
        thanks for reading this message
        Back to the 163 other emails in my mailbox
        wasn't i on here this morning at 2am ?   wow 164 emails in less then 16 hrs damn I need to get rid of a few lists( all fish related)  or start getting on here more often  :-)
         
        Rob
        NE Indiana
        USA


        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



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        Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.

        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7856 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 1/15/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        If they're Pearlscale Orandas rather than for instance, Red Cap Orandas, its very possible that the pearl-scales will not grow back.  Otherwise, just keep the water nice and clean (so no fungus can set in, in those missing scale areas) and give it time.  Regular scales take a little time to grow back.  Ray
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7857 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/15/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        i agree i have stopped reading mail cause i cant even see the titles till i click to open it.. i thought this name change was going to happen on the new year... and we were subject to all this stuff atleast a week before. now i own 3 groups myself and i would loose valued members if i didn't stick to doing what i said i was going too.. shannon
        an someone change the darn name or take out the part saying its going to be changed......    PLEASE   its hard for me to scan the 100++ plus messages I get a day to see if there is anything of intrested I want to read...
        Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be AquaticLife ] ora...
         
        ok what is this message about?  guess I have to read everyone from this group or delete everyone...
        I'd rather not delete messages but I can't possibly read everyone, or I'd be on her hours at a time.
         
        thanks for reading this message
        Back to the 163 other emails in my mailbox
        wasn't i on here this morning at 2am ?   wow 164 emails in less then 16 hrs damn I need to get rid of a few lists( all fish related)  or start getting on here more often  :-)
         
        Rob
        NE Indiana
        USA
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7858 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/15/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        I don't see how yahoo is holding it up... I just got done changing two of my groups name.. one a week ago one 2 days ago and all was fine... Shannon
        It will be changed shortly. Yahoo is holding it up.
         
        Harry
         
        A moderator
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7859 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/15/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        That is really good thing to hear elyse.. Im glad you spoke up and shared... and both of you must be diogn something right... right???? or everything right a dit just works both ways... Shannon

        Hi all:

        I have been a member of this group for some time now.  I mostly lurk, only
        occasionally posting a reply.  I do not think I ever introduced myself.  My
        name is Elyse; I am 35 and live in Sarasota, FL.  I am a life long fish
        keeper.

        My 7 tanks:
        1.  90 Gallon - filtered by 2 MarineLand Bio-Wheel 400's - 11 Clown Loaches,
        3 Leporinus, 3 HeadStanders, 3 Puffers, 3 Albino Tin-Foil Barbs, 3 Queen
        Botias, 3 Skunk Botias, 3 Yo-yo Botias, 3 Albino Rainbow Sharks, 1 Red-Tail
        Shark, 1 Rainbow Shark, 1 Synodontis Decorous, 1 Synodontis Euripotus (sp?),
        1 Clown Pleco, 1 Tiger Pleco, 1 Common Pleco
        2.  90 Gallon - filtered by 2 MarineLand Bio-Wheel 400's - Large goldfish.
        Orandas, Ryukin's, etc.
        3.  55 Gallon - filtered by 2 Whisper 60's - Fully Planted, with 8 Koi.  In
        tank during pond construction.
        4.  55 Gallon - filtered by 2 Whisper 60's - 5 Tiger Barbs, 5 Albino Tiger
        Barbs, 5 Green Tiger Barbs, 5 Rosey Barbs, 2 Opaline Gouramis, 2 Gold
        Gouramis, 2 Pearl Gouramis, 2 Rubbernose Plecos.
        5.  29 Gallon - filtered by 1 MarineLand Bio-Wheel 400 - Fully Planted -
        Purple and Blue Mystery Snail Breeding tank.
        6.  29 Gallon - Filtered by 1 Whisper 60 - Fully Planted, Live Bearers,
        Hi-Fin Platties and other assorted Platties.
        7.  10 Gallon - Hospital/New Arrival tank

        I have read the debates and disagreements over the months and I have to tell
        you all, I think they are great!  Please understand I am in no way condoning
        personal attacks; however the disagreements inevitably lead to lots of
        terrific information.  Different practices, different experiences, they are
        all SO valuable.  Even though I have been keeping fish all my life, I learn
        more from all of it and take away new ideas all the time.

        What it comes down to is the there is no right or wrong.  There are
        different ways of doing things.  Some things that work well for one, will
        not for others.  There is never going to be a world where everyone agrees or
        does things the same way.  Thank goodness, because what a boring place the
        world would be.

        There are however, best practices.  After relocating to Florida, I decided
        to give up my IT career and do something I love.  So, I have been working at
        my local LFS for the past year now.  My addiction to fish and animals led me
        to this choice.  I am responsible for the care of 65 tanks of fish
        containing over 200 varieties.  My focus at the store is not sales, it is
        education.  In the best interest of the fish and animals, I take the time
        daily to educate.  I explain the nitrogen cycle, talk about the toxins
        present in a tank and tap water, about lighting and the hazards of
        overfeeding and the importance of water changes.  Do they always listen?  Of
        course not.  Do the same customers come back with dead fish and sick
        animals?  Yes.  And sometimes, although they have "done everything right"
        there is still a death.

        Having said all of this, and getting back to the subject at hand, I do
        recommend regular water changes.  The reason for this is simple.  The
        average fish keeper, I have found, sees "regular" very differently than we
        (the addicts) do.  If, water changes get done quarterly, I would be
        surprised.  Every day I have 10 or more customers enter the store with a
        water sample.  These samples from tanks old and new are usually frightening.
        I look at them amazed that fish can survive under these conditions.  We all
        know that fish are amazing creatures and when slowly acclimated to can
        survive a whole lot more than we give them credit for.  Again, I use the
        word survive, not thrive.

        There are so many factors involved with keeping a good chemistry in our
        tanks.  The larger bodies of water, I have found, are easier to maintain.
        How many fish are in the tank?  What kind of fish?  How much are they being
        fed?  How much light is shining on them daily, etc, etc.  All of these
        things and more have so much to do with how well maintained a tank will be.
        A ten gallon tank with 5 guppies is going to need a lot less care than the
        same ten gallon with 5 goldfish.

        Before I step off my soapbox I wanted to add one other thing.  My father,
        the person who is responsible for my fish keeping addiction and initial
        education, is now 60 years old and has kept fish for most of his life.
        Growing up there were always many tanks, salt and fresh, too many species to
        list.  He bred successfully as well.  ALL of his tanks, which by the way
        were never larger than a 29, NEVER had water changes (only top offs), and
        NEVER had any kind of filtration other than Underground filters with power
        heads.  To this day, we battle daily over the same philosophies as I read
        here.  He thinks I am nuts each time I am changing filter pads or drag out
        my house to do water changes.  I still do it even though I have to hear, "I
        never did any of this", time and time again.

        Thanks!
        Elyse
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7860 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/15/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
            The group owner made a group named Aquatic Life so the name would not be taken before the name change.  Then he deleted that group so he could name this one Aquatic Life, but discovered that the name would remain reserved for two more weeks.  I'm guessing that all happened two weeks ago, so it should be any day now that it will be changed.  The thing is, the tag name in the subject line could have been changed 2 weeks ago anyway.
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        -------Original Message-------
        I don't see how yahoo is holding it up... I just got done changing two of my groups name.. one a week ago one 2 days ago and all was fine... Shannon
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7861 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/15/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        Very true and I think that is all most of us care about... is the tag name..... thanks for taking the time to explain that.. Shannon
        The group owner made a group named Aquatic Life so the name would not be taken before the name change.  Then he deleted that group so he could name this one Aquatic Life, but discovered that the name would remain reserved for two more weeks.  I'm guessing that all happened two weeks ago, so it should be any day now that it will be changed.  The thing is, the tag name in the subject line could have been changed 2 weeks ago anyway.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7862 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 1/15/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        In a message dated 1/15/2005 7:33:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, americanfishguy@... writes:
        7. When doing water changes, don't confuse the soap and dechlorinator.
        Damn!
         
         
        Mike
         
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7863 From: paul helms Date: 1/15/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        pat ....
        are you saying to lock me in the closet? you Bas***d!
        jk...lol
        love teh list
        --- "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
        <americanfishguy@...> wrote:

        > "What it comes down to is the there is no right or
        > wrong."
        > I disagree with that, so I made a list of rules
        > that are always true, no
        > matter what, never to be broken.
        >
        > 1. Don't pour gasoline in the fish tank and throw in
        > a match.
        >
        >
        > 2. You can't take a fish out of water for too long
        > or it will dry out.
        >
        >
        > 3. Don't keep a fish that can both walk and eat
        > humans.
        >
        >
        > 4. Hammers + Glass aquariums = wet floor.
        >
        >
        > 5. When a fish is longer than the tank, the tank is
        > not as long as the fish.
        >
        >
        > 6. What works for you works for you, what works for
        > me works for me, but my
        > way is always better.
        >
        >
        > 7. When doing water changes, don't confuse the soap
        > and dechlorinator.
        >
        >
        > 8. Never put more than one foot of fish per gallon
        > of water in your tank.
        > That would be too much.
        >
        >
        > 9. The more medicine you use, the less pain your
        > fish will feel. They will
        > be dead, but they won't feel pain.
        >
        >
        > 10. Lock the guy at the fish store in a closet.
        >
        > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
        >
        > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
        > Cycle.
        > Nitrogen Cycle
        > About my tanks:
        > 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        > -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
        > skirt tetras, 2
        > home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli
        > cories, 1 pleco, one
        > female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
        > banana plants, java ferns,
        > hornwort, and amazon swords.
        > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
        > 30-60 power filter.
        > 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        > -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        > -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
        > amazon sword.
        > -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
        > gravel, Regent 10-15 power
        > filter.
        > -------Original Message-------
        >
        > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: 01/15/05 08:54:36
        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group
        > name soon to be
        > AquaticLife ] PEOPLE LIKE STEVE AND PAUL AND US ALL
        >
        > Hi all:
        >
        > I have been a member of this group for some time
        > now. I mostly lurk, only
        > occasionally posting a reply. I do not think I ever
        > introduced myself. My
        > name is Elyse; I am 35 and live in Sarasota, FL. I
        > am a life long fish
        > keeper.
        >
        > My 7 tanks:
        > 1. 90 Gallon - filtered by 2 MarineLand Bio-Wheel
        > 400's - 11 Clown Loaches,
        > 3 Leporinus, 3 HeadStanders, 3 Puffers, 3 Albino
        > Tin-Foil Barbs, 3 Queen
        > Botias, 3 Skunk Botias, 3 Yo-yo Botias, 3 Albino
        > Rainbow Sharks, 1 Red-Tail
        > Shark, 1 Rainbow Shark, 1 Synodontis Decorous, 1
        > Synodontis Euripotus (sp?),
        > 1 Clown Pleco, 1 Tiger Pleco, 1 Common Pleco
        > 2. 90 Gallon - filtered by 2 MarineLand Bio-Wheel
        > 400's - Large goldfish.
        > Orandas, Ryukin's, etc.
        > 3. 55 Gallon - filtered by 2 Whisper 60's - Fully
        > Planted, with 8 Koi. In
        > tank during pond construction.
        > 4. 55 Gallon - filtered by 2 Whisper 60's - 5 Tiger
        > Barbs, 5 Albino Tiger
        > Barbs, 5 Green Tiger Barbs, 5 Rosey Barbs, 2 Opaline
        > Gouramis, 2 Gold
        > Gouramis, 2 Pearl Gouramis, 2 Rubbernose Plecos.
        > 5. 29 Gallon - filtered by 1 MarineLand Bio-Wheel
        > 400 - Fully Planted -
        > Purple and Blue Mystery Snail Breeding tank.
        > 6. 29 Gallon - Filtered by 1 Whisper 60 - Fully
        > Planted, Live Bearers,
        > Hi-Fin Platties and other assorted Platties.
        > 7. 10 Gallon - Hospital/New Arrival tank
        >
        > I have read the debates and disagreements over the
        > months and I have to tell
        > you all, I think they are great! Please understand
        > I am in no way condoning
        > personal attacks; however the disagreements
        > inevitably lead to lots of
        > terrific information. Different practices,
        > different experiences, they are
        > all SO valuable. Even though I have been keeping
        > fish all my life, I learn
        > more from all of it and take away new ideas all the
        > time.
        >
        > What it comes down to is the there is no right or
        > wrong. There are
        > different ways of doing things. Some things that
        > work well for one, will
        > not for others. There is never going to be a world
        > where everyone agrees or
        > does things the same way. Thank goodness, because
        > what a boring place the
        > world would be.
        >
        > There are however, best practices. After relocating
        > to Florida, I decided
        > to give up my IT career and do something I love.
        > So, I have been working at
        > my local LFS for the past year now. My addiction to
        > fish and animals led me
        > to this choice. I am responsible for the care of 65
        > tanks of fish
        > containing over 200 varieties. My focus at the
        > store is not sales, it is
        > education. In the best interest of the fish and
        > animals, I take the time
        > daily to educate. I explain the nitrogen cycle,
        > talk about the toxins
        > present in a tank and tap water, about lighting and
        > the hazards of
        > overfeeding and the importance of water changes. Do
        > they always listen? Of
        > course not. Do the same customers come back with
        > dead fish and sick
        > animals? Yes. And sometimes, although they have
        > "done everything right"
        > there is still a death.
        >
        > Having said all of this, and getting back to the
        > subject at hand, I do
        > recommend regular water changes. The reason for
        > this is simple. The
        > average fish keeper, I have found, sees "regular"
        > very differently than we
        > (the addicts) do. If, water changes get done
        > quarterly, I would be
        > surprised. Every day I have 10 or more customers
        > enter the store with a
        > water sample. These samples from tanks old and new
        > are usually frightening.
        > I look at them amazed that fish can survive under
        > these conditions. We all
        > know that fish are amazing creatures and when slowly
        > acclimated to can
        > survive a whole lot more than we give them credit
        > for. Again, I use the
        > word survive, not thrive.
        >
        > There are so many factors involved with keeping a
        > good chemistry in our
        > tanks. The larger bodies of water, I have found,
        > are easier to maintain.
        > How many fish are in the tank? What kind of fish?
        > How much are they being
        > fed? How much light is shining on them daily, etc,
        > etc. All of these
        > things and more have so much to do with how well
        > maintained a tank will be.
        > A ten gallon tank with 5 guppies is going to need a
        > lot less care than the
        > same ten gallon with 5 goldfish.
        >
        > Before I step off my soapbox I wanted to add one
        > other thing. My father,
        >
        === message truncated ===




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7864 From: paul helms Date: 1/15/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        exactly what i was trying to say earlier elyse!!!!
        i ran my 55 for 3 years with only a ug filter and 2
        301 power heads, and live plants (anacharis, amazon
        sword, apontogea (sp), dwarf lilly hybrid, and not
        water changes...only top offs.
        paul
        --- Elyse <elyse@...> wrote:

        > Hi all:
        >
        > I have been a member of this group for some time
        > now. I mostly lurk, only
        > occasionally posting a reply. I do not think I ever
        > introduced myself. My
        > name is Elyse; I am 35 and live in Sarasota, FL. I
        > am a life long fish
        > keeper.
        >
        > My 7 tanks:
        > 1. 90 Gallon - filtered by 2 MarineLand Bio-Wheel
        > 400's - 11 Clown Loaches,
        > 3 Leporinus, 3 HeadStanders, 3 Puffers, 3 Albino
        > Tin-Foil Barbs, 3 Queen
        > Botias, 3 Skunk Botias, 3 Yo-yo Botias, 3 Albino
        > Rainbow Sharks, 1 Red-Tail
        > Shark, 1 Rainbow Shark, 1 Synodontis Decorous, 1
        > Synodontis Euripotus (sp?),
        > 1 Clown Pleco, 1 Tiger Pleco, 1 Common Pleco
        > 2. 90 Gallon - filtered by 2 MarineLand Bio-Wheel
        > 400's - Large goldfish.
        > Orandas, Ryukin's, etc.
        > 3. 55 Gallon - filtered by 2 Whisper 60's - Fully
        > Planted, with 8 Koi. In
        > tank during pond construction.
        > 4. 55 Gallon - filtered by 2 Whisper 60's - 5 Tiger
        > Barbs, 5 Albino Tiger
        > Barbs, 5 Green Tiger Barbs, 5 Rosey Barbs, 2 Opaline
        > Gouramis, 2 Gold
        > Gouramis, 2 Pearl Gouramis, 2 Rubbernose Plecos.
        > 5. 29 Gallon - filtered by 1 MarineLand Bio-Wheel
        > 400 - Fully Planted -
        > Purple and Blue Mystery Snail Breeding tank.
        > 6. 29 Gallon - Filtered by 1 Whisper 60 - Fully
        > Planted, Live Bearers,
        > Hi-Fin Platties and other assorted Platties.
        > 7. 10 Gallon - Hospital/New Arrival tank
        >
        > I have read the debates and disagreements over the
        > months and I have to tell
        > you all, I think they are great! Please understand
        > I am in no way condoning
        > personal attacks; however the disagreements
        > inevitably lead to lots of
        > terrific information. Different practices,
        > different experiences, they are
        > all SO valuable. Even though I have been keeping
        > fish all my life, I learn
        > more from all of it and take away new ideas all the
        > time.
        >
        > What it comes down to is the there is no right or
        > wrong. There are
        > different ways of doing things. Some things that
        > work well for one, will
        > not for others. There is never going to be a world
        > where everyone agrees or
        > does things the same way. Thank goodness, because
        > what a boring place the
        > world would be.
        >
        > There are however, best practices. After relocating
        > to Florida, I decided
        > to give up my IT career and do something I love.
        > So, I have been working at
        > my local LFS for the past year now. My addiction to
        > fish and animals led me
        > to this choice. I am responsible for the care of 65
        > tanks of fish
        > containing over 200 varieties. My focus at the
        > store is not sales, it is
        > education. In the best interest of the fish and
        > animals, I take the time
        > daily to educate. I explain the nitrogen cycle,
        > talk about the toxins
        > present in a tank and tap water, about lighting and
        > the hazards of
        > overfeeding and the importance of water changes. Do
        > they always listen? Of
        > course not. Do the same customers come back with
        > dead fish and sick
        > animals? Yes. And sometimes, although they have
        > "done everything right"
        > there is still a death.
        >
        > Having said all of this, and getting back to the
        > subject at hand, I do
        > recommend regular water changes. The reason for
        > this is simple. The
        > average fish keeper, I have found, sees "regular"
        > very differently than we
        > (the addicts) do. If, water changes get done
        > quarterly, I would be
        > surprised. Every day I have 10 or more customers
        > enter the store with a
        > water sample. These samples from tanks old and new
        > are usually frightening.
        > I look at them amazed that fish can survive under
        > these conditions. We all
        > know that fish are amazing creatures and when slowly
        > acclimated to can
        > survive a whole lot more than we give them credit
        > for. Again, I use the
        > word survive, not thrive.
        >
        > There are so many factors involved with keeping a
        > good chemistry in our
        > tanks. The larger bodies of water, I have found,
        > are easier to maintain.
        > How many fish are in the tank? What kind of fish?
        > How much are they being
        > fed? How much light is shining on them daily, etc,
        > etc. All of these
        > things and more have so much to do with how well
        > maintained a tank will be.
        > A ten gallon tank with 5 guppies is going to need a
        > lot less care than the
        > same ten gallon with 5 goldfish.
        >
        > Before I step off my soapbox I wanted to add one
        > other thing. My father,
        > the person who is responsible for my fish keeping
        > addiction and initial
        > education, is now 60 years old and has kept fish for
        > most of his life.
        > Growing up there were always many tanks, salt and
        > fresh, too many species to
        > list. He bred successfully as well. ALL of his
        > tanks, which by the way
        > were never larger than a 29, NEVER had water changes
        > (only top offs), and
        > NEVER had any kind of filtration other than
        > Underground filters with power
        > heads. To this day, we battle daily over the same
        > philosophies as I read
        > here. He thinks I am nuts each time I am changing
        > filter pads or drag out
        > my house to do water changes. I still do it even
        > though I have to hear, "I
        > never did any of this", time and time again.
        >
        > Thanks!
        > Elyse
        >
        > Canine Castaway's Inc.
        > www.CanineCastaways.org
        > www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
        > The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
        > The Tropical Fish Connection:
        >
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
        > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 11:29 PM
        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group
        > name soon to be
        > AquaticLife ] PEOPLE LIKE STEVE AND PAUL AND US ALL
        >
        >
        > pat, not debating...defending. never said water
        > changes were wrong, just not necessary under certain
        > conditions....in other words i am more than done
        > talking about it and am happy to not mention it
        > again
        > unless asked by someone who would like info on the
        > topic from this side.
        > paul
        > --- "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
        > <americanfishguy@...> wrote:
        >
        > > While I do water changes, I recognize that
        > there
        > > is a portion of people
        > > who do have equal success not doing water changes.
        >
        > > You mention the number
        > > 35 years", Steve. I have read a 40 year old book
        > > that said at that time
        > > (mid 60's), aqurists liked to brag on how old
        > their
        > > water was, and were
        > > successful. I would never brag about not doing a
        > > water change in a month,
        > > much less years, but that is my opinion based on
        > my
        > > experience. Experience
        > > is a funny thing. Something might work for you
        > that
        > > doesn't work for
        > > somebody else, while what works for somebody else
        > > does not work for you. I
        > > agree with you that there might not be many
        > studies
        > > on the issues. I also
        > > agree no harm can be done with water changes, only
        > > good. But there is a
        > > large group out there who don't do them and things
        > > are fine. I don't know
        >
        === message truncated ===




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7865 From: Elyse Date: 1/16/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic

        Not to contradict Ray, but I keep several PearScales of varying sizes and they have grown back scales where they were lost.   It just took more time than the guys with the regular scales.  So, I guess it is possible for them to rejuvenate scales.  Perhaps it varies depending on the extent of the injury.

         

         

        Thanks!
        Elyse
        elyse@...
        AIM: ElyseRachel

        Canine Castaway’s Inc.
        www.CanineCastaways.org
        www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
        The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
        The Tropical Fish Connection:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/


        From: sevenspringss@... [mailto:sevenspringss@...]
        Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 5:22 PM
        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be AquaticLife ] ora...

         

        If they're Pearlscale Orandas rather than for instance, Red Cap Orandas, its very possible that the pearl-scales will not grow back.  Otherwise, just keep the water nice and clean (so no fungus can set in, in those missing scale areas) and give it time.  Regular scales take a little time to grow back.  Ray

        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7866 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/16/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        Thanks Elyse, and no you are not contradicting. I too have seen the
        pearl-scales grow back (I did not rule it out, either), but have
        heard from others who claim their's didn't. Which is why I said they
        may not grow back as I didn't want to give false hope. It does seem
        to take more time, I presume as its a much larger scale, but like you
        say, it may depend on the injury. Ray
        \--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Elyse"
        <elyse@e...> wrote:
        > Not to contradict Ray, but I keep several PearScales of varying
        sizes and
        > they have grown back scales where they were lost. It just took
        more time
        > than the guys with the regular scales. So, I guess it is possible
        for them
        > to rejuvenate scales. Perhaps it varies depending on the extent of
        the
        > injury.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Thanks!
        > Elyse
        > <mailto:elyse@e...> elyse@e...
        > AIM: ElyseRachel
        >
        > Canine Castaway's Inc.
        > <http://www.CanineCastaways.org> www.CanineCastaways.org
        > <http://www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org>
        > www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
        > The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
        > The Tropical Fish Connection:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: sevenspringss@w... [mailto:sevenspringss@w...]
        > Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 5:22 PM
        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
        > AquaticLife ] ora...
        >
        >
        >
        > If they're Pearlscale Orandas rather than for instance, Red Cap
        Orandas, its
        > very possible that the pearl-scales will not grow back. Otherwise,
        just
        > keep the water nice and clean (so no fungus can set in, in those
        missing
        > scale areas) and give it time. Regular scales take a little time
        to grow
        > back. Ray
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
        thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        >
        > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
        subject=U
        > nsubscribe>
        >
        > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
        > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7867 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/16/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
            Yes, that means you will be in a closet.  But if it makes you feel better, it is one of those celebrity closets that is bigger than most people's house.  The only bad part is that every guy at every fish store will be in it with you.  :)
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        -------Original Message-------
        pat ....
        are you saying to lock me in the closet? you Bas***d!
        jk...lol
        love teh list
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7868 From: Anne Date: 1/16/2005
        Subject: Re' closets
        Hey, can we toss the guy from Petsmart who sold me the
        algae eater, sealed it in a plastic bag with a rubber
        band, then said he'd double bag it because of the
        distance I was traveling home (30miles) When I got
        home, the bag sealed with the rubberband (upside down
        in the second bag)had leaked and the poor guy was in
        1/2 inch of water. Services were held this am.
        Anne



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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7869 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/16/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        Wow and I always complain cause I can never get them out of the double bag .... Guess there is a reason... funny end to a not so funny subject... blessings Anne... Shannon

        Hey, can we toss the guy from Petsmart who sold me the
        algae eater, sealed it in a plastic bag with a rubber
        band, then said he'd double bag it because of the
        distance I was traveling home (30miles) When I got
        home, the bag sealed with the rubberband (upside down
        in the second bag)had leaked and the poor guy was in
        1/2 inch of water. Services were held this am.
        Anne
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7870 From: Miranda Date: 1/16/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
        "joequality1980" <crazy.joe.walcek@g...> wrote:
        >
        > just out of curiousity...
        >
        > how do you pronounce "Smrtlauf" and where is its origin?

        sorry it took long to reply but go here that explains it
        http://www.geocities.com/enchantedforest/dell/7579/me.html
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7871 From: paul helms Date: 1/16/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        as long asthere are some female employees and or
        celebs, it will be fine with me!
        lol
        --- "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
        <americanfishguy@...> wrote:

        > Yes, that means you will be in a closet. But if
        > it makes you feel
        > better, it is one of those celebrity closets that is
        > bigger than most people
        > s house. The only bad part is that every guy at
        > every fish store will be in
        > it with you. :)
        >
        > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
        >
        > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
        > Cycle.
        > Nitrogen Cycle
        > About my tanks:
        > 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        > -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
        > skirt tetras, 2
        > home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli
        > cories, 1 pleco, one
        > female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
        > banana plants, java ferns,
        > hornwort, and amazon swords.
        > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
        > 30-60 power filter.
        > 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        > -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        > -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
        > amazon sword.
        > -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
        > gravel, Regent 10-15 power
        > filter.
        > -------Original Message-------
        > pat ....
        > are you saying to lock me in the closet? you
        > Bas***d!
        > jk...lol
        > love teh list




        __________________________________
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7872 From: Aaron Date: 1/16/2005
        Subject: Re: NAME CHANGE
        Yahoo! is making us wait several weeks before we can complete the
        name change, however at your reguest I have changed the Subject Tag.

        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
        FortWayneFish@a... wrote:
        >
        > Can someone change the darn name or take out the part saying its
        going to be
        > changed...... PLEASE its hard for me to scan the 100++ plus
        messages I
        > get a day to see if there is anything of intrested I want to
        read...
        > Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
        AquaticLife ]
        > ora...
        >
        > ok what is this message about? guess I have to read everyone from
        this group
        > or delete everyone...
        > I'd rather not delete messages but I can't possibly read everyone,
        or I'd be
        > on her hours at a time.
        >
        >
        > thanks for reading this message
        > Back to the 163 other emails in my mailbox
        > wasn't i on here this morning at 2am ? wow 164 emails in less
        then 16 hrs
        > damn I need to get rid of a few lists( all fish related) or start
        getting on
        > here more often :-)
        >
        > Rob
        > NE Indiana
        > USA
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7873 From: Aaron Date: 1/16/2005
        Subject: New Subject Tag
        We now have a new Subject Tag - AquaticLife
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7874 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/16/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: NAME CHANGE
        Oh thank you great moderator < bowing>  it is so nice to be able to read subject line
        Thank you thank you thank you
         
        rob
        Indiana
        USA
         
         
         
        In a message dated 1/16/2005 7:35:02 PM Central Standard Time, massagetherapist@... writes:
        Yahoo! is making us wait several weeks before we can complete the
        name change, however at your reguest I have changed the Subject Tag.
         
        Robert
        NE Indiana
        USA
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7875 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/16/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: NAME CHANGE
        yes it is.. i wont say what it did to me to be able to like have open space in my in box. lol Shannon
        Oh thank you great moderator < bowing>  it is so nice to be able to read subject line
        Thank you thank you thank you
         
        rob
        Indiana
        USA
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7876 From: boy2coool Date: 1/17/2005
        Subject: Need Help on Balloon Mollies
        How Could we find that a Balloon molly is pregnant, do anybody know?
        because they seem to have a permanent big belly. Would they have any
        gravid spot during pregnancy?
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7877 From: Scorp1on Date: 1/17/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need Help on Balloon Mollies
        yes you should see a gravid. will be harder to tell if she is a dark color though. she will also look more and more square from the front the farther she gets 
         
        -------Original Message-------
         
        From: boy2coool
        Date: 01/17/05 10:22:09
        Subject: [AquaticLife] Need Help on Balloon Mollies
         

        How Could we find that a Balloon molly is pregnant, do anybody know?
        because they seem to have a permanent big belly. Would they have any
        gravid spot during pregnancy?





        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


         
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7879 From: joequality1980 Date: 1/17/2005
        Subject: Re: fish joke
        why is it whenever I try to read a message that has a "fish joke"
        it's always blank? (the past 3 have been blank on my screen)

        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Colleen"
        <alaskaicekubes@a...> wrote:
        >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7880 From: Terri Bryant Date: 1/17/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        The one missing scales does have a red cap.  My other one has a very light gold cap, does that mean it's a different kind of Oranda?  Excuse my ignorance. I only have the 2 Oranda's and some fancy blue guppies.  My other tanks are full of snails LOL.

        Terri

        At 04:22 PM 1/15/2005, you wrote:
        If they're Pearlscale Orandas rather than for instance, Red Cap Orandas, its very possible that the pearl-scales will not grow back.  Otherwise, just keep the water nice and clean (so no fungus can set in, in those missing scale areas) and give it time.  Regular scales take a little time to grow back.  Ray

        Terri Bryant
        www.rainbowsnails.com
        snails, jewelry, food and more

        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7881 From: Terri Bryant Date: 1/17/2005
        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
        What causes this?  I don't see any "injury" but it may not be obvious to me.

        Thanks

        At 06:53 AM 1/16/2005, you wrote:
        Not to contradict Ray, but I keep several PearScales of varying sizes and they have grown back scales where they were lost.   It just took more time than the guys with the regular scales.  So, I guess it is possible for them to rejuvenate scales.  Perhaps it varies depending on the extent of the injury.
         
         

        Thanks!
        Elyse
        elyse@...

        Terri Bryant
        www.rainbowsnails.com
        snails, jewelry, food and more

        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7882 From: Elyse Date: 1/17/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name

        Hey Terri:

         

        It sounds like they are both Orandas.  The come in all colors and they can all have a different amount of cap on their hard.  Some grow large while others stay relatively small.

         

         

        Thanks!
        Elyse
        elyse@...
        AIM: ElyseRachel

        Canine Castaway’s Inc.
        www.CanineCastaways.org
        www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
        The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
        The Tropical Fish Connection:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/


        From: Terri Bryant [mailto:bryants4god@...]
        Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 6:07 PM
        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be AquaticLife ] ora...

         

        The one missing scales does have a red cap.  My other one has a very light gold cap, does that mean it's a different kind of Oranda?  Excuse my ignorance. I only have the 2 Oranda's and some fancy blue guppies.  My other tanks are full of snails LOL.

        Terri

        At 04:22 PM 1/15/2005, you wrote:

        If they're Pearlscale Orandas rather than for instance, Red Cap Orandas, its very possible that the pearl-scales will not grow back.  Otherwise, just keep the water nice and clean (so no fungus can set in, in those missing scale areas) and give it time.  Regular scales take a little time to grow back.  Ray

        Terri Bryant
        www.rainbowsnails.com
        snails, jewelry, food and more


        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7883 From: Elyse Date: 1/17/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name

        Terri:

         

        Sometimes the scales get damaged during netting or transport.  Other times they can rub themselves up against an ornament or even the gravel.  It may be impossible to determine how it happened, but more than likely the scales will grow back.

         

        Thanks!
        Elyse
        elyse@...
        AIM: ElyseRachel

        Canine Castaway’s Inc.
        www.CanineCastaways.org
        www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
        The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
        The Tropical Fish Connection:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/


        From: Terri Bryant [mailto:bryants4god@...]
        Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 6:08 PM
        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be AquaticLife ] ora...

         

        What causes this?  I don't see any "injury" but it may not be obvious to me.

        Thanks

        At 06:53 AM 1/16/2005, you wrote:

        Not to contradict Ray, but I keep several PearScales of varying sizes and they have grown back scales where they were lost.   It just took more time than the guys with the regular scales.  So, I guess it is possible for them to rejuvenate scales.  Perhaps it varies depending on the extent of the injury.
         
         

        Thanks!
        Elyse
        elyse@...

        Terri Bryant
        www.rainbowsnails.com
        snails, jewelry, food and more


        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7884 From: ben_noreau Date: 1/17/2005
        Subject: Aquarium Accessories
        Hello,

        I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for accessories. I
        have a 29 gallon tank that was purchased as a kit. I have all of the
        needs, I want to make the tank more "fun" for the fish. I already
        have some sea scape items for the botton of the tank (Tunnels and fake
        coral) and some plastic plants.

        I have:
        6 Neon Tetras
        3 Red Eye
        2 Serpae Tetras
        2 Glowlight Tetras
        2 Headlight taillight Tetras
        2 Sword Tail Female
        2 Guppie Male
        2 High Fin black Tetra
        1 Lyre Tail Mollie
        1 Marble Mollie
        1 Albino Corrie Catfish
        1 Octocinclus


        The reason why I ask is that I have seen things like bubble
        stones and bubble curtains and I have heard that having these can be
        good for the fish too. I would like things that will help the fish
        too. Thanks in advance for any info.

        BenN
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7885 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/17/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name
        on my gourami my CAE was sucking the crap outa it and so that is why i finally got rid of it... but the scales on my gourami have finally started looking better... .Shannon

        Terri:

         

        Sometimes the scales get damaged during netting or transport.  Other times they can rub themselves up against an ornament or even the gravel.  It may be impossible to determine how it happened, but more than likely the scales will grow back.

        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7886 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 1/17/2005
        Subject: Re: Aquarium Accessories
        My favorite aquarium accessories are real plants. They make hidey
        places and forests and all sorts of places for the fish to play in.
        My kids love putting glass marbles into the tank, and I like the look
        of driftwood, but you have to be careful of what kind of wood you use.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7887 From: Colleen Date: 1/17/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: fish joke
        are you on html settings
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 10:44 AM
        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: fish joke


        why is it whenever I try to read a message that has a "fish joke"
        it's always blank? (the past 3 have been blank on my screen)

        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Colleen"
        <alaskaicekubes@a...> wrote:
        >





        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7888 From: Amalthea Date: 1/17/2005
        Subject: CO2
        Hi all. I just started CO2 injection into my tank (DIY method with
        yeast) and I'm wondering how soon I can expect to see results? Has
        anyone used this before?
        Amalthea
        http://www.amaltheasattic.com
        Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7889 From: Miranda Date: 1/17/2005
        Subject: Green water update
        Hey all Thanks so much for your help, you hit it right on the head. I
        went and got all sorts of testing supplies and algea destroyer. used
        a quick dip test first..everything was almost normal. So I added some
        algeafix (nothing else) and within an hour the water was almost clear.
        After two hours the water was completely clear. Guess I didn't need
        any of the other testing stuff. *shrugs* Thanks again! you are a
        great bunch!
        Miranda aka Smrtlauf
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7890 From: Cosmo Knight Date: 1/17/2005
        Subject: Re: Aquarium Accessories
        Add some clay pots (the red ones, forgot the name well how to spell
        it - teracotta?). These will add some caves and help in removing
        some color that may be in the water (from drift wood).
        If you have a filter there is no need
        for an air stone or bubble wands/curtains. HOB filters will cause
        enough water movement on the surface that the air toys aren't
        needed.

        HTH,
        Cos...


        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "ben_noreau"
        <ben_noreau@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello,
        >
        > I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for accessories. I
        > have a 29 gallon tank that was purchased as a kit. I have all of the
        > needs, I want to make the tank more "fun" for the fish. I already
        > have some sea scape items for the botton of the tank (Tunnels and
        fake
        > coral) and some plastic plants.
        >
        > I have:
        > 6 Neon Tetras
        > 3 Red Eye
        > 2 Serpae Tetras
        > 2 Glowlight Tetras
        > 2 Headlight taillight Tetras
        > 2 Sword Tail Female
        > 2 Guppie Male
        > 2 High Fin black Tetra
        > 1 Lyre Tail Mollie
        > 1 Marble Mollie
        > 1 Albino Corrie Catfish
        > 1 Octocinclus
        >
        >
        > The reason why I ask is that I have seen things like bubble
        > stones and bubble curtains and I have heard that having these can be
        > good for the fish too. I would like things that will help the fish
        > too. Thanks in advance for any info.
        >
        > BenN
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7891 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium Accessories
        In a message dated 1/17/2005 11:52:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, cosmoknight74@... writes:
        <<Add some clay pots (the red ones, forgot the name well how to spell
        it - teracotta?).  These will add some caves and>>
         
        If you don't like the look of the terra cotta you can get some aquarium silicone sealer and smear it on the pots and use some dry aquarium sand or gravel etc. to cover the pots to make them blend in more with the existing gravel in the tank.   You can also cut up lengths of PVC pipe and do the same. 
         
        Mike
         
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7892 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: Aquarium Accessories
        One warning about clay pots. Make sure the hole in the bottom is larger than
        your biggest fish. I made that mistake and lost a female paradisefish after
        she got stuck overnight. You can easily cut the pots or file them after
        soaking in water.

        There isn't always a need for bubble wands and such; as far as I know the
        only time they can be a problem is when the tank has live plants. Otherwise
        many fish do enjoy playing in them.

        Theresa


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Cosmo Knight" <cosmoknight74@...>
        >
        > Add some clay pots (the red ones, forgot the name well how to spell
        > it - teracotta?). These will add some caves and help in removing
        > some color that may be in the water (from drift wood).
        > If you have a filter there is no need
        > for an air stone or bubble wands/curtains. HOB filters will cause
        > enough water movement on the surface that the air toys aren't
        > needed.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7893 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: Need Help on Balloon Mollies
        I've always heard that mollies do not have a gravid spot. This link shows
        photos of various pregnant livebearers.

        I recently purchased a trio of dalmation lyretail mollies though and was
        surprised to find fry the other day. Neither female looked anything like the
        pregnant photos I've seen of mollies.

        Theresa

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "boy2coool" <boy2coool@...>
        >
        > How Could we find that a Balloon molly is pregnant, do anybody know?
        > because they seem to have a permanent big belly. Would they have any
        > gravid spot during pregnancy?
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7894 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: My tank
        A big problem with your stock is that you have schooling fish that aren't in
        schools. You don't have room for 7 schools in a 20g, so it would really be
        best to decide which you'd like to complete and return the others. Many
        tetras will display shyness when not in schools; the danios tend to be
        nippier towards other fish when kept in small groups.


        Theresa


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Angela" <angelasjenkins@...>
        >
        > You've helped me with the 20 gallon tank Santa brought. I thought
        > I'd bring you up to date on it. We added our first fish, a Buenos
        > Aires Tetra and Black Skirt Tetra two weeks ago yesterday. We've
        > periodically had the water tested at the fish shop and added fish.
        > As of today, we have:
        >
        > 2 black skirt tetras
        > 1 buenos aires tetra
        > 3 zebra danios
        > 2 neon tetras
        > 2 emerald cory catfish
        > 1 lemon tetra
        > 1 serpae tetra
        > 1 frog
        >
        > Losses: 1 neon tetra (disappeared, looked everywhere and never
        > found him) and two zebra danio's died last night. The water had a
        > slight amount of ammonia and I did a 4-5 gallon water change (first
        > change since fish were added). I was in a hurry and forgot to de-
        > chlorinate the water and they died very quickly. Once I realized
        > what I'd done, I added the de-chlorinator and the others have
        > survived.
        >
        > Now my question, what should I be on the lookout for? When will I
        > be considered through the danger zone and be considered "cycled"?
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7895 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My tank
        Such as?  What additional fish should I have?  I intend to add more zebra danios once the ick clears up.  However, my question was what to look for with regards to the cycling of the tank.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
        A big problem with your stock is that you have schooling fish that aren't in
        schools. You don't have room for 7 schools in a 20g, so it would really be
        best to decide which you'd like to complete and return the others. Many
        tetras will display shyness when not in schools; the danios tend to be
        nippier towards other fish when kept in small groups.


        Theresa


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Angela" <angelasjenkins@...>
        >
        > You've helped me with the 20 gallon tank Santa brought.  I thought
        > I'd bring you up to date on it.  We added our first fish, a Buenos
        > Aires Tetra and Black Skirt Tetra two weeks ago yesterday.  We've
        > periodically had the water tested at the fish shop and added fish.
        > As of today, we have:
        >
        > 2 black skirt tetras
        > 1 buenos aires tetra
        > 3 zebra danios
        > 2 neon tetras
        > 2 emerald cory catfish
        > 1 lemon tetra
        > 1 serpae tetra
        > 1 frog
        >
        > Losses:  1 neon tetra (disappeared, looked everywhere and never
        > found him) and two zebra danio's died last night.  The water had a
        > slight amount of ammonia and I did a 4-5 gallon water change (first
        > change since fish were added).  I was in a hurry and forgot to de-
        > chlorinate the water and they died very quickly.  Once I realized
        > what I'd done, I added the de-chlorinator and the others have
        > survived.
        >
        > Now my question, what should I be on the lookout for?  When will I
        > be considered through the danger zone and be considered "cycled"?




        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7896 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: My tank
        Each species of tetra, the danios, and the cories really should all be kept in groups of at least 5 or 6.
         
        Theresa
        ----- Original Message -----

        Such as?  What additional fish should I have?  I intend to add more zebra danios once the ick clears up.  However, my question was what to look for with regards to the cycling of the tank.
         
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7897 From: Laura Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Nitrates
        Hi everyone! I need some advice... my nitrates are pretty high..
        around 140 ppm. Is there any remedies for this? I have done several
        water changes over the last few weeks.

        Also, anyone have any luck with water softening pillows? I would
        like to get a pair of rams, but my water is too hard.

        Thanks,
        Laura
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7898 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates
        I've used Amquel + a few times - it seemed to help the nitrates.
         
        Al
         
        BTW - what's your fish load, types of fish, aquarium size, frequency of water changes, etc?
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7899 From: paul helms Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates
        be careful not to over use amquel + it can throw off
        your buffering capacity greatly if used too frequently
        in high doses.
        --- alglea@... wrote:

        > I've used Amquel + a few times - it seemed to help
        > the nitrates.
        >
        > Al
        >
        > BTW - what's your fish load, types of fish, aquarium
        > size, frequency of
        > water changes, etc?
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7900 From: paul helms Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates
        if your nitrates are that high after water changes,
        there is something wrong in your tank. either there
        is major over feeding going on, there is no biolgic
        filter in place, or the water that you are using has a
        high concentration of nitrate to start with. tap
        water in CA runs about 40ppm straight out of the tap.
        if you are using similar water to top off or change,
        you are not decreasing your nitrate content, but
        rather adding to it. make sure to test your source.
        ro water can be used to top off fresh water tanks, and
        can be used in combination with a product like ro
        vital from marc weiss for water changes.
        paul
        --- Laura <msmulan00@...> wrote:

        >
        > Hi everyone! I need some advice... my nitrates are
        > pretty high..
        > around 140 ppm. Is there any remedies for this? I
        > have done several
        > water changes over the last few weeks.
        >
        > Also, anyone have any luck with water softening
        > pillows? I would
        > like to get a pair of rams, but my water is too
        > hard.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Laura
        >
        >
        >
        >




        __________________________________
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        Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7901 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Accessories
        I have a air curtain in my tank (300 litres), the fish HATE it when they
        get hit by the bubbles and generally swim around the curtain. I also
        have some air stones the ones with holes and little bubles come out. The
        same thing goes for this they don't like the bubles hitting them it
        really scares them.

        I have:
        a Handful/Bucket of Australian Wild Guppies (white small tail),
        1 Silver Shark,
        7 Golden Tiger Barbs,
        1 Bristle Nose.

        But the bubbles do help move the water around the tank kinda like a
        power filter. I use them most at night when i turn the power filter off
        and let the fish rest.

        >
        ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 5
        > Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:44:05 -0000
        > From: "ben_noreau" <ben_noreau@...>
        > Subject: Aquarium Accessories
        > Hello,
        > I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for accessories. I
        > have a 29 gallon tank that was purchased as a kit. I have all of the
        > needs, I want to make the tank more "fun" for the fish. I already
        > have some sea scape items for the botton of the tank (Tunnels and
        fake
        > coral) and some plastic plants.
        > ...
        > The reason why I ask is that I have seen things like bubble
        > stones and bubble curtains and I have heard that having these can be
        > good for the fish too. I would like things that will help the fish
        > too. Thanks in advance for any info.
        > BenN
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7902 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 572
        Hi,

        I also have a similar problem, the other day my Nitrates were at 150
        ppm which apparently is pretty bad.
        My tanks only 2 to 3 weeks old and i have a few fish in it.

        When i do a water change the water goes more cloudy, i think it has
        something to do with the cloromine in the water cause i use a garden tap
        directly into the tank then add a few drops of Tri-Start (water
        conditioner).

        Generally the tank has been good up untill last week when i did
        vacuumed the gravel and a water change.

        Does this sound common? or is there something more sinister going on?

        ________________________________________________________________________

        Message: 18
        Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:42:51 -0000
        From: "Laura" <msmulan00@...>
        Subject: Nitrates


        Hi everyone! I need some advice... my nitrates are pretty high..
        around 140 ppm. Is there any remedies for this? I have done several
        water changes over the last few weeks.

        Also, anyone have any luck with water softening pillows? I would
        like to get a pair of rams, but my water is too hard.

        Thanks,
        Laura
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7903 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Accessories
            You turn off the filter?  I normally hold back statements that something someone does is wrong, but that kind of thing will one day kill all your fish.  Leave the filter on and air off, it works much better that way. 
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
        -------Original Message-------
        But the bubbles do help move the water around the tank kinda like a
        power filter. I use them most at night when i turn the power filter off
        and let the fish rest.
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7904 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] high nitrates (150 ppm!)
            Nitrates that high are probably because the bacteria in the filter are dying at night when they get no O2 in the filter.  Leave it on.  The tank has to start the cycle.
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        -------Original Message-------
        Hi,

        I also have a similar problem, the other day my Nitrates were at 150
        ppm which apparently is pretty bad.
        My tanks only 2 to 3 weeks old and i have a few fish in it.

        When i do a water change the water goes more cloudy, i think it has
        something to do with the cloromine in the water cause i use a garden tap
        directly into the tank then add a few drops of Tri-Start (water
        conditioner).

        Generally the tank has been good up untill last week when i did
        vacuumed the gravel and a water change.

        Does this sound common? or is there something more sinister going on?
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7905 From: Angela Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Ich
        On Saturday, I took one of my fish to the pet store to determine if
        they had ich. They did. I have Quick Cure, this blue stuff I add
        to the tank each day until they're clear. I still see some spots on
        the two black skirts. When will this stuff go away? The owner of
        the fish store told me to take the carbon filter out of the filter,
        but leave it on. Is this ok for the fish? Is adding the quick cure
        bad for the fish who don't have ich? What would happen if I stop
        the treatment too soon?

        I'm anxious to do the right think and worried I won't recognize when
        the fish are healthy again.

        Thanks for your help,
        Angela in Richmond, VA
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7906 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        too bad you didn't post to us sooner before you went to the store.. i am sure well i know cause i did or had this same thing about 6 months ago.. and started one of the biggest discussions on this group that quickly turned not so good lol anyhow if you want like all my questions and response you can search the archives they will be a lot... you can do a keyword search for ich and then scan the threads...
         
        Not sure what to tell you now that you are using medication most here feel it is very unnecessary as do I now that I know it can be rid of using salt and increased temps like I did...
         
        But the guy was correct about taking the carbon out of the filter the carbon would take away the meds you are putting in there...
         
        as lots will point out.. and any book that you buy... do you have any... it would be a good thing to invest some time and knowledge into your hobby.. sure does help when things like this arrise.. they point out that the ich is always present in the tank you just don't see it.. You only see it when a fish is stressed or ill in a different manor then the ich comes in and becomes visible because the fish is not able to fight it off like it was when it was healthy... so you need to find the reason your fish were not able to fight it off in the first place or it just might not go away... Shannon:

        On Saturday, I took one of my fish to the pet store to determine if
        they had ich.  They did.  I have Quick Cure, this blue stuff I add
        To the tank each day until they're clear.  I still see some spots on
        the two black skirts.  When will this stuff go away?  The owner of
        the fish store told me to take the carbon filter out of the filter,
        but leave it on.  Is this ok for the fish?  Is adding the quick cure
        bad for the fish who don't have ich?  What would happen if I stop
        the treatment too soon?

        I'm anxious to do the right think and worried I won't recognize when
        the fish are healthy again.

        Thanks for your help,
        Angela in Richmond, VA
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7907 From: Amalthea Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        the best thing to do is fix the conditions causing the ick, rather than
        "treat" the ick. make sure your water parameters are good, that you're
        not overstocked and that your temp is steady.
        amalthea
        http://www.amaltheasattic.com
        Your Alternative to the Alternative....
        On Jan 18, 2005, at 5:33 PM, Angela wrote:

        >
        > On Saturday, I took one of my fish to the pet store to determine if
        > they had ich.  They did.  I have Quick Cure, this blue stuff I add
        > to the tank each day until they're clear.  I still see some spots on
        > the two black skirts.  When will this stuff go away?  The owner of
        > the fish store told me to take the carbon filter out of the filter,
        > but leave it on.  Is this ok for the fish?  Is adding the quick cure
        > bad for the fish who don't have ich?  What would happen if I stop
        > the treatment too soon?
        >
        > I'm anxious to do the right think and worried I won't recognize when
        > the fish are healthy again.
        >
        > Thanks for your help,
        > Angela in Richmond, VA
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        >  
        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >  
        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        > Service.
        >
        >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7908 From: paul helms Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        if you stop it before the ick is gone, it is the same
        as if you never used it. to be honest, the best way
        to get rid of ick is to raise the temp to82-85 degrees
        depending upon what your fish can handle. i also
        recommend stress zyme during that time. basically you
        want to get the tank under control. either the water
        quality is off, or has had sudden change, or you have
        a bully stressing the others out.
        --- Angela <angelasjenkins@...> wrote:

        >
        > On Saturday, I took one of my fish to the pet store
        > to determine if
        > they had ich. They did. I have Quick Cure, this
        > blue stuff I add
        > to the tank each day until they're clear. I still
        > see some spots on
        > the two black skirts. When will this stuff go away?
        > The owner of
        > the fish store told me to take the carbon filter out
        > of the filter,
        > but leave it on. Is this ok for the fish? Is
        > adding the quick cure
        > bad for the fish who don't have ich? What would
        > happen if I stop
        > the treatment too soon?
        >
        > I'm anxious to do the right think and worried I
        > won't recognize when
        > the fish are healthy again.
        >
        > Thanks for your help,
        > Angela in Richmond, VA
        >
        >
        >
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7909 From: paul helms Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Accessories
        filter 1/2 the day is the same as breathing half the
        day....you are giving your tank apnia!
        --- "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
        <americanfishguy@...> wrote:

        > You turn off the filter? I normally hold back
        > statements that something
        > someone does is wrong, but that kind of thing will
        > one day kill all your
        > fish. Leave the filter on and air off, it works
        > much better that way.
        >
        > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
        > -------Original Message-------
        > But the bubbles do help move the water around the
        > tank kinda like a
        > power filter. I use them most at night when i turn
        > the power filter off
        > and let the fish rest.




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7910 From: paul helms Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 572
        the cloudiness may also be bacteria trying to
        establish...don't over clean. only vac the surface of
        the gravel, and treat water prior to introduction to
        the tank...you are shocking the fish 2x the way you
        are doing it.
        --- Nicolas Munro <nicolas.munro@...>
        wrote:

        > Hi,
        >
        > I also have a similar problem, the other day my
        > Nitrates were at 150
        > ppm which apparently is pretty bad.
        > My tanks only 2 to 3 weeks old and i have a few fish
        > in it.
        >
        > When i do a water change the water goes more cloudy,
        > i think it has
        > something to do with the cloromine in the water
        > cause i use a garden tap
        > directly into the tank then add a few drops of
        > Tri-Start (water
        > conditioner).
        >
        > Generally the tank has been good up untill last week
        > when i did
        > vacuumed the gravel and a water change.
        >
        > Does this sound common? or is there something more
        > sinister going on?
        >
        >
        ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 18
        > Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:42:51 -0000
        > From: "Laura" <msmulan00@...>
        > Subject: Nitrates
        >
        >
        > Hi everyone! I need some advice... my nitrates are
        > pretty high..
        > around 140 ppm. Is there any remedies for this? I
        > have done several
        > water changes over the last few weeks.
        >
        > Also, anyone have any luck with water softening
        > pillows? I would
        > like to get a pair of rams, but my water is too
        > hard.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Laura
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




        __________________________________
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7911 From: paul helms Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Accessories
        fish don't rest like we do, and i have never heard of
        fish that "hate bubbles" most love them....
        --- Nicolas Munro <nicolas.munro@...>
        wrote:

        > I have a air curtain in my tank (300 litres), the
        > fish HATE it when they
        > get hit by the bubbles and generally swim around the
        > curtain. I also
        > have some air stones the ones with holes and little
        > bubles come out. The
        > same thing goes for this they don't like the bubles
        > hitting them it
        > really scares them.
        >
        > I have:
        > a Handful/Bucket of Australian Wild Guppies (white
        > small tail),
        > 1 Silver Shark,
        > 7 Golden Tiger Barbs,
        > 1 Bristle Nose.
        >
        > But the bubbles do help move the water around the
        > tank kinda like a
        > power filter. I use them most at night when i turn
        > the power filter off
        > and let the fish rest.
        >
        > >
        >
        ________________________________________________________________________
        > >
        > > Message: 5
        > > Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:44:05 -0000
        > > From: "ben_noreau" <ben_noreau@...>
        > > Subject: Aquarium Accessories
        > > Hello,
        > > I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for
        > accessories. I
        > > have a 29 gallon tank that was purchased as a kit.
        > I have all of the
        > > needs, I want to make the tank more "fun" for the
        > fish. I already
        > > have some sea scape items for the botton of the
        > tank (Tunnels and
        > fake
        > > coral) and some plastic plants.
        > > ...
        > > The reason why I ask is that I have seen things
        > like bubble
        > > stones and bubble curtains and I have heard that
        > having these can be
        > > good for the fish too. I would like things that
        > will help the fish
        > > too. Thanks in advance for any info.
        > > BenN
        >
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7912 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        Well, this is a fairly new tank.  There have been fish in it for almost three weeks.  My water testing has been great.  I did change the water (4 gallons out of 20) two days before the ich appeared.  I messed up and forgot to dechlorinate the water and killed two zebra danios almost immediately.  This was the first water change.  Could this stress have caused the ich?  Neither book I have (Setting Up a Freshwater Aquarium - advises use of medicine, and The Simple Guide to Freshwater Aquariums - advises creating a salt bath in a container outside the aquarium and the use of ich medicine) advises adding salt directly to the tank.  I did raise the temperature - it's now around 80 degrees and had been around 77.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
        too bad you didn't post to us sooner before you went to the store.. i am sure well i know cause i did or had this same thing about 6 months ago.. and started one of the biggest discussions on this group that quickly turned not so good lol anyhow if you want like all my questions and response you can search the archives they will be a lot... you can do a keyword search for ich and then scan the threads...
         
        Not sure what to tell you now that you are using medication most here feel it is very unnecessary as do I now that I know it can be rid of using salt and increased temps like I did...
         
        But the guy was correct about taking the carbon out of the filter the carbon would take away the meds you are putting in there...
         
        as lots will point out.. and any book that you buy... do you have any... it would be a good thing to invest some time and knowledge into your hobby.. sure does help when things like this arrise.. they point out that the ich is always present in the tank you just don't see it.. You only see it when a fish is stressed or ill in a different manor then the ich comes in and becomes visible because the fish is not able to fight it off like it was when it was healthy... so you need to find the reason your fish were not able to fight it off in the first place or it just might not go away... Shannon:

        On Saturday, I took one of my fish to the pet store to determine if
        they had ich.  They did.  I have Quick Cure, this blue stuff I add
        To the tank each day until they're clear.  I still see some spots on
        the two black skirts.  When will this stuff go away?  The owner of
        the fish store told me to take the carbon filter out of the filter,
        but leave it on.  Is this ok for the fish?  Is adding the quick cure
        bad for the fish who don't have ich?  What would happen if I stop
        the treatment too soon?

        I'm anxious to do the right think and worried I won't recognize when
        the fish are healthy again.

        Thanks for your help,
        Angela in Richmond, VA


        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7913 From: Laura Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: Nitrates
        The high nitrates are because I wasn't changing my 29 gal as
        frequently. I do not have an overload of fish...

        I've got 7 cory catfish and 4 tetras. I've put bacteria starter in,
        and it has not helped much...

        my ammonia levels are not high... in fact I tested it and there is
        no ammonia.



        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Laura"
        <msmulan00@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi everyone! I need some advice... my nitrates are pretty high..
        > around 140 ppm. Is there any remedies for this? I have done
        several
        > water changes over the last few weeks.
        >
        > Also, anyone have any luck with water softening pillows? I would
        > like to get a pair of rams, but my water is too hard.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Laura
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7914 From: joequality1980 Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: fish joke
        yes, but I dont get messages in email so maybe thats it
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7915 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        All of these are fine.  I have my water tested every two or three days at the fish store and the temperature has been constant until the ich and then I raised it a couple of degrees.  I'm definitely not overstocked, either.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------

        > the best thing to do is fix the conditions causing the ick, rather
        > than "treat" the ick. make sure your water parameters are good, that
        > you're not overstocked and that your temp is steady.
        >
        > amalthea
        >
        > Helvetica http://www.amaltheasattic.com
        >
        > Your Alternative to the Alternative....
        >
        > On Jan 18, 2005, at 5:33 PM, Angela wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > On Saturday, I took one of my fish to the pet store to
        > determine if
        >
        > they had ich. They did. I have Quick Cure, this blue stuff I
        > add
        >
        > to the tank each day until they're clear. I still see some
        > spots on
        >
        > the two black skirts. When will this stuff go away? The
        > owner of
        >
        > the fish store told me to take the carbon filter out of the
        > filter,
        >
        > but leave it on. Is this ok for the fish? Is adding the
        > quick cure
        >
        > bad for the fish who don't have ich? What would happen if I
        > stop
        >
        > the treatment too soon?
        >
        >
        > I'm anxious to do the right think and worried I won't
        > recognize when
        >
        > the fish are healthy again.
        >
        >
        > Thanks for your help,
        >
        > Angela in Richmond, VA
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Helvetica
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
        > thanks
        >
        > Helvetica
        >
        >
        > Helvetica
        >
        >
        > Helvetica Yahoo! Groups
        > Links
        >
        >
        > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
        >
        > 0000,0000,EEEE http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Freshwa
        > terTropicalFishAquarium/
        >
        >
        >
        > � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >
        > 0000,0000,EEEE FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubs
        > cribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
        > 0000,0000,EEEE Yahoo! Terms of Service .
        >
        >
        > Helvetica
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7916 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        Should I gradually raise the temperature?  When should I lower it back down?  Would it be alright to use the medicine every other day for a few days to make sure I've gotten everything?
         
        Thanks for your help.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
        if you stop it before the ick is gone, it is the same
        as if you never used it.  to be honest, the best way
        to get rid of ick is to raise the temp to82-85 degrees
        depending upon what your fish can handle.  i also
        recommend stress zyme during that time.  basically you
        want to get the tank under control.  either the water
        quality is off, or has had sudden change, or you have
        a bully stressing the others out.
        --- Angela <angelasjenkins@...> wrote:

        >
        > On Saturday, I took one of my fish to the pet store
        > to determine if
        > they had ich.  They did.  I have Quick Cure, this
        > blue stuff I add
        > to the tank each day until they're clear.  I still
        > see some spots on
        > the two black skirts.  When will this stuff go away?
        >  The owner of
        > the fish store told me to take the carbon filter out
        > of the filter,
        > but leave it on.  Is this ok for the fish?  Is
        > adding the quick cure
        > bad for the fish who don't have ich?  What would
        > happen if I stop
        > the treatment too soon?
        >
        > I'm anxious to do the right think and worried I
        > won't recognize when
        > the fish are healthy again.
        >
        > Thanks for your help,
        > Angela in Richmond, VA
        >
        >
        >
        >



                   
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        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7917 From: Amalthea Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        well, something had to have stressed the fish to cause the ick, so once
        you figure out what that is and remedy it, you'll have your cure.
        amalthea

        http://www.amaltheasattic.com
        Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
        On Jan 18, 2005, at 6:04 PM, angelasjenkins@... wrote:

        > All of these are fine.  I have my water tested every two or three days
        > at the fish store and the temperature has been constant until the ich
        > and then I raised it a couple of degrees.  I'm definitely not
        > overstocked, either.
        >  
        > -------------- Original message --------------
        >
        > > the best thing to do is fix the conditions causing the ick, rather
        > > than "treat" the ick. make sure your water parameters are good, that
        > > you're not overstocked and that your temp is steady.
        > >
        > > amalthea
        > >
        > > Helveticahttp://www.amaltheasattic.com
        > >
        > > Your Alternative to the Alternative....
        > >
        > > On Jan 18, 2005, at 5:33 PM, Angela wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > On Saturday, I took one of my fish to the pet store to
        > > determine if
        > >
        > > they had ich. They did. I have Quick Cure, this blue stuff I
        > > add
        > >
        > > to the tank each day until they're clear. I still see some
        > > spots on
        > >
        > > the two b! lack skirts. When will this stuff go away? The
        > > owner of
        > >
        > > the fish store told me to take the carbon filter out of the
        > > filter,
        > >
        > > but leave it on. Is this ok for the fish? Is adding the
        > > quick cure
        > >
        > > bad for the fish who don't have ich? What would happen if I
        > > stop
        > >
        > > the treatment too soon?
        > >
        > >
        > > I'm anxious to do the right think and worried I won't
        > > recognize when
        > >
        > > the fish are healthy again.
        > >
        > >
        > > Thanks for your help,
        > >
        > > Angela in Richmond, VA
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Helvetica
        > >
        > >
        > > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
        > > thanks
        > >
        > > Helvetica
        > > >
        > > Helvetica
        > >
        > >
        > > HelveticaYahoo! Groups
        > > Links
        > >
        > >
        > > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > >
        > > 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Freshwa
        > > terTropicalFishAquarium/
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > >
        > > 0000,0000,EEEEFreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubs
        > > cribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
        > > 0000,0000,EEEEYahoo! Terms of Service.
        > >
        > >
        > > Helvetica
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        >  
        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >  
        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        > Service.
        >
        >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7918 From: RCG Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        Raising the temperature to sufficiently destory the life cycle of the ich is all that is needed. I believe anything above 78 F does the trick. Any medicications are only a moderate success factor.
         
        Weakend fish will get ich...whether caused by stress [usually] or other factors. Your 80 F sould work sufficiently well to break the current ich cycle.
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 3:03 PM
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich

        Well, this is a fairly new tank.  There have been fish in it for almost three weeks.  My water testing has been great.  I did change the water (4 gallons out of 20) two days before the ich appeared.  I messed up and forgot to dechlorinate the water and killed two zebra danios almost immediately.  This was the first water change.  Could this stress have caused the ich?  Neither book I have (Setting Up a Freshwater Aquarium - advises use of medicine, and The Simple Guide to Freshwater Aquariums - advises creating a salt bath in a container outside the aquarium and the use of ich medicine) advises adding salt directly to the tank.  I did raise the temperature - it's now around 80 degrees and had been around 77.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
        too bad you didn't post to us sooner before you went to the store.. i am sure well i know cause i did or had this same thing about 6 months ago.. and started one of the biggest discussions on this group that quickly turned not so good lol anyhow if you want like all my questions and response you can search the archives they will be a lot... you can do a keyword search for ich and then scan the threads...
         
        Not sure what to tell you now that you are using medication most here feel it is very unnecessary as do I now that I know it can be rid of using salt and increased temps like I did...
         
        But the guy was correct about taking the carbon out of the filter the carbon would take away the meds you are putting in there...
         
        as lots will point out.. and any book that you buy... do you have any... it would be a good thing to invest some time and knowledge into your hobby.. sure does help when things like this arrise.. they point out that the ich is always present in the tank you just don't see it.. You only see it when a fish is stressed or ill in a different manor then the ich comes in and becomes visible because the fish is not able to fight it off like it was when it was healthy... so you need to find the reason your fish were not able to fight it off in the first place or it just might not go away... Shannon:

        On Saturday, I took one of my fish to the pet store to determine if
        they had ich.  They did.  I have Quick Cure, this blue stuff I add
        To the tank each day until they're clear.  I still see some spots on
        the two black skirts.  When will this stuff go away?  The owner of
        the fish store told me to take the carbon filter out of the filter,
        but leave it on.  Is this ok for the fish?  Is adding the quick cure
        bad for the fish who don't have ich?  What would happen if I stop
        the treatment too soon?

        I'm anxious to do the right think and worried I won't recognize when
        the fish are healthy again.

        Thanks for your help,
        Angela in Richmond, VA


        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7919 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        I'm new at this.  Do you have any ideas what may have stressed the fish?  There aren't any bullies in there.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------

        > well, something had to have stressed the fish to cause the ick, so
        > once you figure out what that is and remedy it, you'll have your cure.
        >
        > amalthea
        >
        >
        > Helvetica http://www.amaltheasattic.com
        >
        > Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
        >
        > On Jan 18, 2005, at 6:04 PM, angelasjenkins@... wrote:
        >
        >
        > Helvetica All of these are fine. I
        > have my water tested every two or three days at the fish store and the
        > temperature has been constant until the ich and then I raised it a
        > couple of degrees. I'm definitely not overstocked, either.
        >
        > Helvetica
        >
        > Helvetica -------------- Original message
        > --------------
        >
        >
        > Helvetica > the best thing to do is fix the
        > conditions causing the ick, rather
        >
        > Helvetica > than "treat" the ick. make sure
        > your water parameters are good, that
        >
        > Helvetica > you're not overstocked and that
        > your temp is steady.
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > amalthea
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        > Helveticahttp://www.amaltheasattic.com
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > Your Alternative to the
        > Alternative....
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > On Jan 18, 2005, at 5:33 PM,
        > Angela wrote:
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > On Saturday, I took one of my
        > fish to the pet store to
        >
        > Helvetica > determine if
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > they had ich. They did. I have
        > Quick Cure, this blue stuff I
        >
        > Helvetica > add
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > to the tank each day until
        > they're clear. I still see some
        >
        > Helvetica > spots on
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > the two b! lack skirts. When
        > will this stuff go away? The
        >
        > Helvetica > owner of
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > the fish store told me to take
        > the carbon filter out of the
        >
        > Helvetica > filter,
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > but leave it on. Is this ok for
        > the fish? Is adding the
        >
        > Helvetica > quick cure
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > bad for the fish who don't have
        > ich? What would happen if I
        >
        > Helvetica > stop
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > the treatment too soon?
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > I'm anxious to do the right
        > think and worried I won't
        >
        > Helvetica > recognize when
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > the fish are healthy again.
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > Thanks for your help,
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > Angela in Richmond, VA
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > Helvetica
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > please delete this line and
        > everything below it when replying,
        >
        > Helvetica > thanks
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > Helvetica
        >
        > Helvetica > >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        > Helvetica Helvetica
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > HelveticaYahoo! Groups
        >
        > Helvetica > Links
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > � To visit your group on the
        > web, go to:
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        > 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Freshwa
        >
        > Helvetica > terTropicalFishAquarium/
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > � To unsubscribe from this
        > group, send an email to:
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        > 0000,0000,EEEEFreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubs
        >
        > Helvetica > cribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is
        > subject to the
        >
        > Helvetica > 0000,0000,EEEEYahoo! Terms of
        > Service.
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > Helvetica
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
        > thanks
        >
        > Helvetica
        >
        >
        > Helvetica
        >
        >
        > Helvetica Yahoo! Groups
        > Links
        >
        >
        > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
        >
        > 0000,0000,EEEE http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Freshwa
        > terTropicalFishAquarium/
        >
        >
        >
        > � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >
        > 0000,0000,EEEE FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubs
        > cribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
        > 0000,0000,EEEE Yahoo! Terms of Service .
        >
        >
        > Helvetica
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7920 From: Amalthea Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        generally, it's water parameters (ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, o2
        levels, co2 levels, water temperature, sudden temperature change, ph
        issues, etc.) or things like stress (bullies, overcrowding, too much
        light,) little kids banging on the tank can even cause it if it's often
        enough.
        what is your set-up, exactly?
        amalthea
        http://www.amaltheasattic.com
        Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
        On Jan 18, 2005, at 7:16 PM, angelasjenkins@... wrote:

        > I'm new at this.  Do you have any ideas what may have stressed the
        > fish?  There aren't any bullies in there.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7921 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
            Really, any tropical tank should be set no lower than 78° all the time, in my opinion.  That is because it can keep the diseases down.  For ich, the warmer the better.  It won't kill the ich, but it speeds up the ich life cycle, so it doesn't live as long.  If it could be turned up to 84-86° for two weeks, that would work.  Then keep it at 78-80°.
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7922 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates
            With nitrates of 140, either your test kit is expired, or you have just shown the importance of frequent water changes (sorry, Paul, don't yell too loud!). :)  For nitrates, the only way to remove them is live plants and/or water changes.
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        -------Original Message-------
        The high nitrates are because I wasn't changing my 29 gal as
        frequently. I do not have an overload of fish...

        I've got 7 cory catfish and 4 tetras. I've put bacteria starter in,
        and it has not helped much...

        my ammonia levels are not high... in fact I tested it and there is
        no ammonia.
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7923 From: RCG Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        lower water temp
        cycled temp range--lower than they are used to
        water changes [when they're not used to it]
        stress caused by nitrates/nitrites
         
        bullies have little to do with stress
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 4:16 PM
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich

        I'm new at this.  Do you have any ideas what may have stressed the fish?  There aren't any bullies in there.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------

        > well, something had to have stressed the fish to cause the ick, so
        > once you figure out what that is and remedy it, you'll have your cure.
        >
        > amalthea
        >
        >
        > Helvetica http://www.amaltheasattic.com
        >
        > Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
        >
        > On Jan 18, 2005, at 6:04 PM, angelasjenkins@... wrote:
        >
        >
        > Helvetica All of these are fine. I
        > have my water tested every two or three days at the fish store and the
        > temperature has been constant until the ich and then I raised it a
        > couple of degrees. I'm definitely not overstocked, either.
        >
        > Helvetica
        >
        > Helvetica -------------- Original message
        > --------------
        >
        >
        > Helvetica > the best thing to do is fix the
        > conditions causing the ick, rather
        >
        > Helvetica > than "treat" the ick. make sure
        > your water parameters are good, that
        >
        > Helvetica > you're not overstocked and that
        > your temp is steady.
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > amalthea
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        > Helveticahttp://www.amaltheasattic.com
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > Your Alternative to the
        > Alternative....
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > On Jan 18, 2005, at 5:33 PM,
        > Angela wrote:
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > On Saturday, I took one of my
        > fish to the pet store to
        >
        > Helvetica > determine if
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > they had ich. They did. I have
        > Quick Cure, this blue stuff I
        >
        > Helvetica > add
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > to the tank each day until
        > they're clear. I still see some
        >
        > Helvetica > spots on
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > the two b! lack skirts. When
        > will this stuff go away? The
        >
        > Helvetica > owner of
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > the fish store told me to take
        > the carbon filter out of the
        >
        > Helvetica > filter,
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > but leave it on. Is this ok for
        > the fish? Is adding the
        >
        > Helvetica > quick cure
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > bad for the fish who don't have
        > ich? What would happen if I
        >
        > Helvetica > stop
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > the treatment too soon?
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > I'm anxious to do the right
        > think and worried I won't
        >
        > Helvetica > recognize when
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > the fish are healthy again.
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > Thanks for your help,
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > Angela in Richmond, VA
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > Helvetica
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > please delete this line and
        > everything below it when replying,
        >
        > Helvetica > thanks
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > Helvetica
        >
        > Helvetica > >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        > Helvetica Helvetica
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > HelveticaYahoo! Groups
        >
        > Helvetica > Links
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > • To visit your group on the
        > web, go to:
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        > 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Freshwa
        >
        > Helvetica > terTropicalFishAquarium/
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > • To unsubscribe from this
        > group, send an email to:
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        > 0000,0000,EEEEFreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubs
        >
        > Helvetica > cribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is
        > subject to the
        >
        > Helvetica > 0000,0000,EEEEYahoo! Terms of
        > Service.
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica >
        >
        > Helvetica > Helvetica
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
        > thanks
        >
        > Helvetica
        >
        >
        > Helvetica
        >
        >
        > Helvetica Yahoo! Groups
        > Links
        >
        >
        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
        >
        > 0000,0000,EEEE http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Freshwa
        > terTropicalFishAquarium/
        >
        >
        >
        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >
        > 0000,0000,EEEE FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubs
        > cribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
        > 0000,0000,EEEE Yahoo! Terms of Service .
        >
        >
        > Helvetica


        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7924 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        if this happens again yo udont need to buy the meds you can use salt with the temp up to get rid of the ich... there are also many books available on amazon for fish disease or problems.. you can even view pages before you purchase.. i have spent tons of time there Shannon
        Really, any tropical tank should be set no lower than 78° all the time, in my opinion.  That is because it can keep the diseases down.  For ich, the warmer the better.  It won't kill the ich, but it speeds up the ich life cycle, so it doesn't live as long.  If it could be turned up to 84-86° for two weeks, that would work.  Then keep it at 78-80°.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7925 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: Aquarium Accessories
        They may not be needed but my fish love riding the bubbles!!!!!!!!

        the air toys aren't
        > needed.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7926 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: Aquarium Accessories
        Just curious what problems they have with live plants? mine seem to do
        fine.
        >
        > There isn't always a need for bubble wands and such; as far as I
        know the
        > only time they can be a problem is when the tank has live plants.
        Otherwise
        > many fish do enjoy playing in them.
        >
        > Theresa
        >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7927 From: RCG Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My tank
        You should have 10 to 20 each of two tetra species for schooling purposes; 1/2 doze or so for the cory's. You could have neons & lemon tetras together quite well; they're both mid-water fish. The zebras ae much faster and are top fish.
         
        Really should look up some good references for comaptible fish; Innes [old version] and wonderufl 'housing' arrangement for 7-8 types of setups that are still applicable today.
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 4:14 AM
        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My tank

        A big problem with your stock is that you have schooling fish that aren't in
        schools. You don't have room for 7 schools in a 20g, so it would really be
        best to decide which you'd like to complete and return the others. Many
        tetras will display shyness when not in schools; the danios tend to be
        nippier towards other fish when kept in small groups.


        Theresa


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Angela" <angelasjenkins@...>
        >
        > You've helped me with the 20 gallon tank Santa brought.  I thought
        > I'd bring you up to date on it.  We added our first fish, a Buenos
        > Aires Tetra and Black Skirt Tetra two weeks ago yesterday.  We've
        > periodically had the water tested at the fish shop and added fish.
        > As of today, we have:
        >
        > 2 black skirt tetras
        > 1 buenos aires tetra
        > 3 zebra danios
        > 2 neon tetras
        > 2 emerald cory catfish
        > 1 lemon tetra
        > 1 serpae tetra
        > 1 frog
        >
        > Losses:  1 neon tetra (disappeared, looked everywhere and never
        > found him) and two zebra danio's died last night.  The water had a
        > slight amount of ammonia and I did a 4-5 gallon water change (first
        > change since fish were added).  I was in a hurry and forgot to de-
        > chlorinate the water and they died very quickly.  Once I realized
        > what I'd done, I added the de-chlorinator and the others have
        > survived.
        >
        > Now my question, what should I be on the lookout for?  When will I
        > be considered through the danger zone and be considered "cycled"?




        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7928 From: RCG Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        Temp depends upon the fish you have and their temp range capability....
         
        There are clt's and cht's for all species: critical low [or high] temps that impact internal orans, physiology, breeding, etc, along with activity.
         
        The re are fish that doo ver well at low temps, including the White Cloud; whereas tetras need 78--84; some cichlids like it cool [under 80, all the way down to 7 2], while others like it wrm--it just takes balancing it out.
         
        If you keep fish at elevated temps, and then for some reason that temp drops unexpectedly, you run the risk of stress and following disease issue [perhaps]...it's problematical.
         
        It all depends upon the fish.
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 6:18 PM
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich

            Really, any tropical tank should be set no lower than 78° all the time, in my opinion.  That is because it can keep the diseases down.  For ich, the warmer the better.  It won't kill the ich, but it speeds up the ich life cycle, so it doesn't live as long.  If it could be turned up to 84-86° for two weeks, that would work.  Then keep it at 78-80°.
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7929 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        And...for what it's worth....I've only had ich twice on fish.  Once in my 10-gallon -minor case that went away on it's own on an Emperor Tetra (anyone else have any experience with these?  They seem frail as a species based on the few I've had?).   The other time was in my African Cichlid tank - my Red-Shoulder and my Synod. Eupterus.  The Syn had just gone through major trauma being taken from my middle tank and put into my big tank.   I used the Ich-x product and it kicked it in a day or so.   Hasn't been back since - knock on wood.  No harm was done to the other fish - just gave the water a bluish cast for a day or so.....
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7930 From: boy2coool Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: Need Help on Balloon Mollies
        Hi thanks, Could you pls post the link which has those photos.

        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Dan & Theresa"
        <dtmergl@c...> wrote:
        > I've always heard that mollies do not have a gravid spot. This link
        shows
        > photos of various pregnant livebearers.
        >
        > I recently purchased a trio of dalmation lyretail mollies though and
        was
        > surprised to find fry the other day. Neither female looked anything
        like the
        > pregnant photos I've seen of mollies.
        >
        > Theresa
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "boy2coool" <boy2coool@y...>
        > >
        > > How Could we find that a Balloon molly is pregnant, do anybody know?
        > > because they seem to have a permanent big belly. Would they have any
        > > gravid spot during pregnancy?
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7931 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/18/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        follow the direction on the Quick Cure.  The ich should go away in 4-5 days depending on temperature.  Quick Cure is a good product been around a long time and is used by MANY......Take the carbon out of your filter, keep filter on... Meds won't hurt other fish if used correctly.... Read directions, used as directed....
         
        rob
        NE Indiana
        USA
         
         
        In a message dated 1/18/2005 4:42:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, angelasjenkins@... writes:
        On Saturday, I took one of my fish to the pet store to determine if
        they had ich.  They did.  I have Quick Cure, this blue stuff I add
        to the tank each day until they're clear.  I still see some spots on
        the two black skirts.  When will this stuff go away? 
         
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7932 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: Need Help on Balloon Mollies
        So sorry I forgot the link:
        http://fish.orbust.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=40443

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "boy2coool" <boy2coool@...>

        >
        > Hi thanks, Could you pls post the link which has those photos.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7933 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: Aquarium Accessories
        They add extra oxygen to the tank while the plants need carbon dioxide.


        Theresa

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "mommy2acdhsurvivor" <CK147@...>




        > Just curious what problems they have with live plants? mine seem to do
        > fine.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7934 From: Colleen Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: platty
        i have my betta separated from any fish she wont let anything in here she flares and doesnt like it i have my two guppies alone in a small tank and i have my platty alone but im going to get some more i was thinking of another platty what do you think will it work for it to have another platty ...???
        Colleen
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Amalthea
        Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 3:01 PM
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich

        well, something had to have stressed the fish to cause the ick, so once you figure out what that is and remedy it, you'll have your cure.
        amalthea

        http://www.amaltheasattic.com
        Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
        On Jan 18, 2005, at 6:04 PM, angelasjenkins@... wrote:

        All of these are fine.  I have my water tested every two or three days at the fish store and the temperature has been constant until the ich and then I raised it a couple of degrees.  I'm definitely not overstocked, either.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------

        > the best thing to do is fix the conditions causing the ick, rather
        > than "treat" the ick. make sure your water parameters are good, that
        > you're not overstocked and that your temp is steady.
        >
        > amalthea
        >
        > Helveticahttp://www.amaltheasattic.com
        >
        > Your Alternative to the Alternative....
        >
        > On Jan 18, 2005, at 5:33 PM, Angela wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > On Saturday, I took one of my fish to the pet store to
        > determine if
        >
        > they had ich. They did. I have Quick Cure, this blue stuff I
        > add
        >
        > to the tank each day until they're clear. I still see some
        > spots on
        >
        > the two b! lack skirts. When will this stuff go away? The
        > owner of
        >
        > the fish store told me to take the carbon filter out of the
        > filter,
        >
        > but leave it on. Is this ok for the fish? Is adding the
        > quick cure
        >
        > bad for the fish who don't have ich? What would happen if I
        > stop
        >
        > the treatment too soon?
        >
        >
        > I'm anxious to do the right think and worried I won't
        > recognize when
        >
        > the fish are healthy again.
        >
        >
        > Thanks for your help,
        >
        > Angela in Richmond, VA
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Helvetica
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
        > thanks
        >
        > Helvetica
        > >
        > Helvetica
        >
        >
        > HelveticaYahoo! Groups
        > Links
        >
        >
        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
        >
        > 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Freshwa
        > terTropicalFishAquarium/
        >
        >
        >
        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >
        > 0000,0000,EEEEFreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubs
        > cribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
        > 0000,0000,EEEEYahoo! Terms of Service.
        >
        >
        > Helvetica


        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




        Yahoo! Groups Links

        • To visit your group on the web, go to:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
         
        • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
         
        • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service .

        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7935 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        The problem is I have tetras (instructions call for 1 drop per two gallons) and others (1 drop per gallon).  Which directions would you use?
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
        follow the direction on the Quick Cure.  The ich should go away in 4-5 days depending on temperature.  Quick Cure is a good product been around a long time and is used by MANY......Take the carbon out of your filter, keep filter on... Meds won't hurt other fish if used correctly.... Read directions, used as directed....
         
        rob
        NE Indiana
        USA
         
         
        In a message dated 1/18/2005 4:42:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, angelasjenkins@... writes:
        On Saturday, I took one of my fish to the pet store to determine if
        they had ich.  They did.  I have Quick Cure, this blue stuff I add
        to the tank each day until they're clear.  I still see some spots on
        the two black skirts.  When will this stuff go away? 
         
         


        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7936 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        If by setup you mean what's in my tank:
         
        20 gallon rectangle tank with a millenium 2000 filter, heater, clam decoration with air pump, four artificial plants, shipwreck and treasure chest, small spongebob decoration, and two hiding place decorations.  There are two black skirt tetras, a buenos aires tetra, two cory catfish, three zebra danios, frog, lemon tetra and serpae tetra.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------

        > generally, it's water parameters (ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, o2
        > levels, co2 levels, water temperature, sudden temperature change, ph
        > issues, etc.) or things like stress (bullies, overcrowding, too much
        > light,) little kids banging on the tank can even cause it if it's
        > often enough.
        >
        > what is your set-up, exactly?
        >
        > amalthea
        >
        > Helvetica http://www.amaltheasattic.com
        >
        > Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
        >
        > On Jan 18, 2005, at 7:16 PM, angelasjenkins@... wrote:
        >
        >
        > Helvetica I'm new at this. Do you
        > have any ideas what may have stressed the fish? There aren't any
        > bullies in there.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7937 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My tank
        I have researched stocking.  I'm trying to take it slowly.  By the way, in the two books and numerous websites I've read, I've never seen it recommended to have 10-20 of each tetra.  The all recommend 5-6.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
        You should have 10 to 20 each of two tetra species for schooling purposes; 1/2 doze or so for the cory's. You could have neons & lemon tetras together quite well; they're both mid-water fish. The zebras ae much faster and are top fish.
         
        Really should look up some good references for comaptible fish; Innes [old version] and wonderufl 'housing' arrangement for 7-8 types of setups that are still applicable today.
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 4:14 AM
        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My tank

        A big problem with your stock is that you have schooling fish that aren't in
        schools. You don't have room for 7 schools in a 20g, so it would really be
        best to decide which you'd like to complete and return the others. Many
        tetras will display shyness when not in schools; the danios tend to be
        nippier towards other fish when kept in small groups.


        Theresa


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Angela" <angelasjenkins@...>
        >
        > You've helped me with the 20 gallon tank Santa brought.  I thought
        > I'd bring you up to date on it.  We added our first fish, a Buenos
        > Aires Tetra and Black Skirt Tetra two weeks ago yesterday.  We've
        > periodically had the water tested at the fish shop and added fish.
        > As of today, we have:
        >
        > 2 black skirt tetras
        > 1 buenos aires tetra
        > 3 zebra danios
        > 2 neon tetras
        > 2 emerald cory catfish
        > 1 lemon tetra
        > 1 serpae tetra
        > 1 frog
        >
        > Losses:  1 neon tetra (disappeared, looked everywhere and never
        > found him) and two zebra danio's died last night.  The water had a
        > slight amount of ammonia and I did a 4-5 gallon water change (first
        > change since fish were added).  I was in a hurry and forgot to de-
        > chlorinate the water and they died very quickly.  Once I realized
        > what I'd done, I added the de-chlorinator and the others have
        > survived.
        >
        > Now my question, what should I be on the lookout for?  When will I
        > be considered through the danger zone and be considered "cycled"?




        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7938 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        One drop per two gallons for Tetras.  Ray
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7939 From: RCG Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My tank
        Unfortunately your references are what I would call weak. Websites are usually tertiary sources, and the quality of the authorship in books in the past twenty years makes most of them coffee table quality, as opposed to references, imo.
         
        Tetras come from schools of thoousands, many thousands. They are a schooling fish, as are most barbs. As are cory's, and the species flocks of the rift lakes [not so much schooling, though many do, especially the deeper water predators] as opposed to swimming in a school, they congregat...
         
        5-6 in a 20 gallon would be lost; the more the merrer.
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 3:55 AM
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My tank

        I have researched stocking.  I'm trying to take it slowly.  By the way, in the two books and numerous websites I've read, I've never seen it recommended to have 10-20 of each tetra.  The all recommend 5-6.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
        You should have 10 to 20 each of two tetra species for schooling purposes; 1/2 doze or so for the cory's. You could have neons & lemon tetras together quite well; they're both mid-water fish. The zebras ae much faster and are top fish.
         
        Really should look up some good references for comaptible fish; Innes [old version] and wonderufl 'housing' arrangement for 7-8 types of setups that are still applicable today.
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 4:14 AM
        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My tank

        A big problem with your stock is that you have schooling fish that aren't in
        schools. You don't have room for 7 schools in a 20g, so it would really be
        best to decide which you'd like to complete and return the others. Many
        tetras will display shyness when not in schools; the danios tend to be
        nippier towards other fish when kept in small groups.


        Theresa


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Angela" <angelasjenkins@...>
        >
        > You've helped me with the 20 gallon tank Santa brought.  I thought
        > I'd bring you up to date on it.  We added our first fish, a Buenos
        > Aires Tetra and Black Skirt Tetra two weeks ago yesterday.  We've
        > periodically had the water tested at the fish shop and added fish.
        > As of today, we have:
        >
        > 2 black skirt tetras
        > 1 buenos aires tetra
        > 3 zebra danios
        > 2 neon tetras
        > 2 emerald cory catfish
        > 1 lemon tetra
        > 1 serpae tetra
        > 1 frog
        >
        > Losses:  1 neon tetra (disappeared, looked everywhere and never
        > found him) and two zebra danio's died last night.  The water had a
        > slight amount of ammonia and I did a 4-5 gallon water change (first
        > change since fish were added).  I was in a hurry and forgot to de-
        > chlorinate the water and they died very quickly.  Once I realized
        > what I'd done, I added the de-chlorinator and the others have
        > survived.
        >
        > Now my question, what should I be on the lookout for?  When will I
        > be considered through the danger zone and be considered "cycled"?




        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7940 From: RCG Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        what color is your gravel? With tetras you should have dark gravel--black is fine, as is dark 'natural' gravel, though with all the trinkets in the tank, that is probably moot whether natural gravel would fit in.
         
        With tetras you don't need hiding places--you need more plants--preferably natural.
         
        While most tetras come from defitely low pH waters, and most from the black waters, the opposite conditions bring on a natural 'stress load' that is often not considered, and if tere are changes--like from the Amazon to a shipper to a carrier to a major wholesaler to a job shopper or dealer, and then to your tank...there's a lot of stress for the physiology to handle--and many come in with internal parasites, not ich, that often maniest themselves in small ways.
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 3:51 AM
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich

        If by setup you mean what's in my tank:
         
        20 gallon rectangle tank with a millenium 2000 filter, heater, clam decoration with air pump, four artificial plants, shipwreck and treasure chest, small spongebob decoration, and two hiding place decorations.  There are two black skirt tetras, a buenos aires tetra, two cory catfish, three zebra danios, frog, lemon tetra and serpae tetra.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------

        > generally, it's water parameters (ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, o2
        > levels, co2 levels, water temperature, sudden temperature change, ph
        > issues, etc.) or things like stress (bullies, overcrowding, too much
        > light,) little kids banging on the tank can even cause it if it's
        > often enough.
        >
        > what is your set-up, exactly?
        >
        > amalthea
        >
        > Helvetica http://www.amaltheasattic.com
        >
        > Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
        >
        > On Jan 18, 2005, at 7:16 PM, angelasjenkins@... wrote:
        >
        >
        > Helvetica I'm new at this. Do you
        > have any ideas what may have stressed the fish? There aren't any
        > bullies in there.


        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7941 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        The gravel is brownish with some black, orange and yellowish colors mixed in.  I have the hiding places for the catfish and frog.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
        what color is your gravel? With tetras you should have dark gravel--black is fine, as is dark 'natural' gravel, though with all the trinkets in the tank, that is probably moot whether natural gravel would fit in.
         
        With tetras you don't need hiding places--you need more plants--preferably natural.
         
        While most tetras come from defitely low pH waters, and most from the black waters, the opposite conditions bring on a natural 'stress load' that is often not considered, and if tere are changes--like from the Amazon to a shipper to a carrier to a major wholesaler to a job shopper or dealer, and then to your tank...there's a lot of stress for the physiology to handle--and many come in with internal parasites, not ich, that often maniest themselves in small ways.
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 3:51 AM
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich

        If by setup you mean what's in my tank:
         
        20 gallon rectangle tank with a millenium 2000 filter, heater, clam decoration with air pump, four artificial plants, shipwreck and treasure chest, small spongebob decoration, and two hiding place decorations.  There are two black skirt tetras, a buenos aires tetra, two cory catfish, three zebra danios, frog, lemon tetra and serpae tetra.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------

        > generally, it's water parameters (ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, o2
        > levels, co2 levels, water temperature, sudden temperature change, ph
        > issues, etc.) or things like stress (bullies, overcrowding, too much
        > light,) little kids banging on the tank can even cause it if it's
        > often enough.
        >
        > what is your set-up, exactly?
        >
        > amalthea
        >
        > Helvetica http://www.amaltheasattic.com
        >
        > Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
        >
        > On Jan 18, 2005, at 7:16 PM, angelasjenkins@... wrote:
        >
        >
        > Helvetica I'm new at this. Do you
        > have any ideas what may have stressed the fish? There aren't any
        > bullies in there.


        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7942 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich(quick cure)
        use 1 drop per 2 gallons if you have Tetras. its a weaker dosage but its always safer to error on the side of caution. I have added 1 drop per gallon to a tank full of neons, and there was no problems but I's error on the side of caution and add 1 drop per 2 gallons with the tetras.
         
        Rob
        Indiana
        USA
         
         
        In a message dated 1/19/2005 5:54:52 A.M. Central Standard Time, angelasjenkins@... writes:
        The problem is I have tetras (instructions call for 1 drop per two gallons) and others (1 drop per gallon).  Which directions would you use?
         
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7943 From: paul helms Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My tank
        5-6 is generally the minimum number to keep them from
        fighting
        paul
        --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

        > I have researched stocking. I'm trying to take it
        > slowly. By the way, in the two books and numerous
        > websites I've read, I've never seen it recommended
        > to have 10-20 of each tetra. The all recommend 5-6.
        >
        > -------------- Original message --------------
        >
        > You should have 10 to 20 each of two tetra species
        > for schooling purposes; 1/2 doze or so for the
        > cory's. You could have neons & lemon tetras together
        > quite well; they're both mid-water fish. The zebras
        > ae much faster and are top fish.
        >
        > Really should look up some good references for
        > comaptible fish; Innes [old version] and wonderufl
        > 'housing' arrangement for 7-8 types of setups that
        > are still applicable today.
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Dan & Theresa
        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 4:14 AM
        > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My tank
        >
        >
        > A big problem with your stock is that you have
        > schooling fish that aren't in
        > schools. You don't have room for 7 schools in a 20g,
        > so it would really be
        > best to decide which you'd like to complete and
        > return the others. Many
        > tetras will display shyness when not in schools; the
        > danios tend to be
        > nippier towards other fish when kept in small
        > groups.
        >
        >
        > Theresa
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Angela" <angelasjenkins@...>
        > >
        > > You've helped me with the 20 gallon tank Santa
        > brought. I thought
        > > I'd bring you up to date on it. We added our
        > first fish, a Buenos
        > > Aires Tetra and Black Skirt Tetra two weeks ago
        > yesterday. We've
        > > periodically had the water tested at the fish shop
        > and added fish.
        > > As of today, we have:
        > >
        > > 2 black skirt tetras
        > > 1 buenos aires tetra
        > > 3 zebra danios
        > > 2 neon tetras
        > > 2 emerald cory catfish
        > > 1 lemon tetra
        > > 1 serpae tetra
        > > 1 frog
        > >
        > > Losses: 1 neon tetra (disappeared, looked
        > everywhere and never
        > > found him) and two zebra danio's died last night.
        > The water had a
        > > slight amount of ammonia and I did a 4-5 gallon
        > water change (first
        > > change since fish were added). I was in a hurry
        > and forgot to de-
        > > chlorinate the water and they died very quickly.
        > Once I realized
        > > what I'd done, I added the de-chlorinator and the
        > others have
        > > survived.
        > >
        > > Now my question, what should I be on the lookout
        > for? When will I
        > > be considered through the danger zone and be
        > considered "cycled"?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when
        > replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when
        > replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        >
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >
        FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
        > Terms of Service.




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7944 From: paul helms Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates
        PRIME AND AMQUEL PLUS ALSO NEUTRALIZE THEM
        --- "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
        <americanfishguy@...> wrote:

        > With nitrates of 140, either your test kit is
        > expired, or you have just
        > shown the importance of frequent water changes
        > (sorry, Paul, don't yell too
        > loud!). :) For nitrates, the only way to remove
        > them is live plants and/or
        > water changes.
        >
        > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
        >
        > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
        > Cycle.
        > Nitrogen Cycle
        > About my tanks:
        > 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        > -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
        > skirt tetras, 2
        > home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli
        > cories, 1 pleco, one
        > female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
        > banana plants, java ferns,
        > hornwort, and amazon swords.
        > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
        > 30-60 power filter.
        > 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        > -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        > -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
        > amazon sword.
        > -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
        > gravel, Regent 10-15 power
        > filter.
        > -------Original Message-------
        > The high nitrates are because I wasn't changing my
        > 29 gal as
        > frequently. I do not have an overload of fish...
        >
        > I've got 7 cory catfish and 4 tetras. I've put
        > bacteria starter in,
        > and it has not helped much...
        >
        > my ammonia levels are not high... in fact I tested
        > it and there is
        > no ammonia.




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7945 From: paul helms Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        anytime A FISH IS BEING CHASED NON-STOP AND OR BEING
        ATTACKED, IT IS STRESSFUL!
        --- RCG <project_management_guru@...> wrote:

        > lower water temp
        > cycled temp range--lower than they are used to
        > water changes [when they're not used to it]
        > stress caused by nitrates/nitrites
        >
        > bullies have little to do with stress
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: angelasjenkins@...
        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 4:16 PM
        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        >
        >
        > I'm new at this. Do you have any ideas what may
        > have stressed the fish? There aren't any bullies in
        > there.
        >
        > -------------- Original message --------------
        >
        > > well, something had to have stressed the fish
        > to cause the ick, so
        > > once you figure out what that is and remedy
        > it, you'll have your cure.
        > >
        > > amalthea
        > >
        > >
        > > Helveticahttp://www.amaltheasattic.com
        > >
        > > Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much
        > More...
        > >
        > > On Jan 18, 2005, at 6:04 PM,
        > angelasjenkins@... wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > HelveticaAll of these are fine. I
        > > have my water tested every two or three days
        > at the fish store and the
        > > temperature has been constant until the ich
        > and then I raised it a
        > > couple of degrees. I'm definitely not
        > overstocked, either.
        > >
        > > Helvetica
        > >
        > > Helvetica-------------- Original message
        > > --------------
        > >
        > >
        > > Helvetica> the best thing to do is fix the
        > > conditions causing the ick, rather
        > >
        > > Helvetica > than "treat" the ick. make sure
        > > your water parameters are good, that
        > >
        > > Helvetica > you're not overstocked and that
        > > your temp is steady.
        > >
        > > Helvetica >
        > >
        > > Helvetica> amalthea
        > >
        > > Helvetica >
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > > Helveticahttp://www.amaltheasattic.com
        > >
        > > Helvetica >
        > >
        > > Helvetica> Your Alternative to the
        > > Alternative....
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica> On Jan 18, 2005, at 5:33 PM,
        > > Angela wrote:
        > >
        > > Helvetica >
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica> On Saturday, I took one of my
        > > fish to the pet store to
        > >
        > > Helvetica> determine if
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica> they had ich. They did. I have
        > > Quick Cure, this blue stuff I
        > >
        > > Helvetica> add
        > >
        > > Helvetica >
        > >
        > > Helvetica> to the tank each day until
        > > they're clear. I still see some
        > >
        > > Helvetica > spots on
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica> the two b! lack skirts. When
        > > will this stuff go away? The
        > >
        > > Helvetica > owner of
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica> the fish store told me to take
        > > the carbon filter out of the
        > >
        > > Helvetica > filter,
        > >
        > > Helvetica >
        > >
        > > Helvetica> but leave it on. Is this ok for
        > > the fish? Is adding the
        > >
        > > Helvetica > quick cure
        > >
        > > Helvetica >
        > >
        > > Helvetica> bad for the fish who don't have
        > > ich? What would happen if I
        > >
        > > Helvetica> stop
        > >
        > > Helvetica >
        > >
        > > Helvetica> the treatment too soon?
        > >
        > > Helvetica >
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica> I'm anxious to do the right
        > > think and worried I won't
        > >
        > > Helvetica > recognize when
        > >
        > > Helvetica >
        > >
        > > Helvetica> the fish are healthy again.
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica> Thanks for your help,
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica> Angela in Richmond, VA
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica> Helvetica
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica> please delete this line and
        > > everything below it when replying,
        > >
        > > Helvetica > thanks
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica> Helvetica
        > >
        > > Helvetica> >
        > >
        > > Helvetica >
        > > HelveticaHelvetica
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica> HelveticaYahoo! Groups
        > >
        > > Helvetica > Links
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        > >
        > > Helvetica>
        >
        === message truncated ===




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7946 From: paul helms Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        MINIMUM OF 83 DEGRESS IS NEEDED TO SPEED UP THE LIFE
        CYCLE OF ICK
        --- RCG <project_management_guru@...> wrote:

        > Raising the temperature to sufficiently destory the
        > life cycle of the ich is all that is needed. I
        > believe anything above 78 F does the trick. Any
        > medicications are only a moderate success factor.
        >
        > Weakend fish will get ich...whether caused by stress
        > [usually] or other factors. Your 80 F sould work
        > sufficiently well to break the current ich cycle.
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: angelasjenkins@...
        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 3:03 PM
        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        >
        >
        > Well, this is a fairly new tank. There have been
        > fish in it for almost three weeks. My water testing
        > has been great. I did change the water (4 gallons
        > out of 20) two days before the ich appeared. I
        > messed up and forgot to dechlorinate the water and
        > killed two zebra danios almost immediately. This
        > was the first water change. Could this stress have
        > caused the ich? Neither book I have (Setting Up a
        > Freshwater Aquarium - advises use of medicine, and
        > The Simple Guide to Freshwater Aquariums - advises
        > creating a salt bath in a container outside the
        > aquarium and the use of ich medicine) advises adding
        > salt directly to the tank. I did raise the
        > temperature - it's now around 80 degrees and had
        > been around 77.
        >
        > -------------- Original message --------------
        >
        > too bad you didn't post to us sooner before you
        > went to the store.. i am sure well i know cause i
        > did or had this same thing about 6 months ago.. and
        > started one of the biggest discussions on this group
        > that quickly turned not so good lol anyhow if you
        > want like all my questions and response you can
        > search the archives they will be a lot... you can do
        > a keyword search for ich and then scan the
        > threads...
        >
        > Not sure what to tell you now that you are using
        > medication most here feel it is very unnecessary as
        > do I now that I know it can be rid of using salt and
        > increased temps like I did...
        >
        > But the guy was correct about taking the carbon
        > out of the filter the carbon would take away the
        > meds you are putting in there...
        >
        > as lots will point out.. and any book that you
        > buy... do you have any... it would be a good thing
        > to invest some time and knowledge into your hobby..
        > sure does help when things like this arrise.. they
        > point out that the ich is always present in the tank
        > you just don't see it.. You only see it when a fish
        > is stressed or ill in a different manor then the ich
        > comes in and becomes visible because the fish is not
        > able to fight it off like it was when it was
        > healthy... so you need to find the reason your fish
        > were not able to fight it off in the first place or
        > it just might not go away... Shannon:
        >
        > On Saturday, I took one of my fish to the pet
        > store to determine if
        > they had ich. They did. I have Quick Cure,
        > this blue stuff I add
        > To the tank each day until they're clear. I
        > still see some spots on
        > the two black skirts. When will this stuff go
        > away? The owner of
        > the fish store told me to take the carbon
        > filter out of the filter,
        > but leave it on. Is this ok for the fish? Is
        > adding the quick cure
        > bad for the fish who don't have ich? What
        > would happen if I stop
        > the treatment too soon?
        >
        > I'm anxious to do the right think and worried
        > I won't recognize when
        > the fish are healthy again.
        >
        > Thanks for your help,
        > Angela in Richmond, VA
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it
        > when replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it
        > when replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7947 From: paul helms Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrates
        IT HAS ALREADY CONVERTED TO NOTRATE.
        --- Laura <msmulan00@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > The high nitrates are because I wasn't changing my
        > 29 gal as
        > frequently. I do not have an overload of fish...
        >
        > I've got 7 cory catfish and 4 tetras. I've put
        > bacteria starter in,
        > and it has not helped much...
        >
        > my ammonia levels are not high... in fact I tested
        > it and there is
        > no ammonia.
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
        > "Laura"
        > <msmulan00@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi everyone! I need some advice... my nitrates are
        > pretty high..
        > > around 140 ppm. Is there any remedies for this? I
        > have done
        > several
        > > water changes over the last few weeks.
        > >
        > > Also, anyone have any luck with water softening
        > pillows? I would
        > > like to get a pair of rams, but my water is too
        > hard.
        > >
        > > Thanks,
        > > Laura
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7948 From: Robb Rouse Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Fish dieing
        I have 3 tanks.  a 20 Gallon, a 10 Gallon and a 55 gallon.  I'm have probelems with the 55 gallon and I can't for the life of me figure out whats going on.  I sat the tank up on September 5th and I did a fishless cycel.  Well after all my spikes and what not I added 4 Dwarf Gouami (3 Femails and 1 Male). Then on November 6th I added 4 Panda Cory's and a Candy Stripe Pleco.
         
        Well Everyhing seemed find and dandy for a while on november 25th the the Pleco got trapped and died.  So I did a water change check levels and all were fine.  Then pn December 31st I lost on of the Dwarf Gouami, then on January 17th I lost the Male Dwarf Gouami, then today I lost another female Dwarf Gouami.
         
        I do 25% water changes ever 7 to 10 days most of the time weekly.  I'm having no problems with my other 2 tanks.  I understand why the Pleco died, but I've lost 3 of my 4 Dwarf Gouami and have no idea why.  Any input would be great.  The 4 Panda Corrys in the tank are getting bigger and seem to be doing fine.
         
        Robb
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7949 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        In a message dated 1/18/2005 5:00:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, angelasjenkins@... writes:
        <<I'm new at this.  Do you have any ideas what may have stressed the fish?  There aren't any bullies in there.>>
         
        Any missing fish?  Sometimes there is a dead fish hidden and decaying and that can cause the stress.  I am fairly sure that is what caused a recent case of ich in my wifes tank.  There was a dead kuhlie loach hidden in a decoration.
         
        Mike
         
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7950 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        There's been a missing neon, but I haven't been able to find him.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
        In a message dated 1/18/2005 5:00:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, angelasjenkins@... writes:
        <<I'm new at this.  Do you have any ideas what may have stressed the fish?  There aren't any bullies in there.>>
         
        Any missing fish?  Sometimes there is a dead fish hidden and decaying and that can cause the stress.  I am fairly sure that is what caused a recent case of ich in my wifes tank.  There was a dead kuhlie loach hidden in a decoration.
         
        Mike
         
         


        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7951 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
            But many of the fish (including tetras) have never even heard of Latin America, they are raised on farms that may have more neutral pH and hardness.  Those fish are less stressed by hard water or basic pH, as long as it is not an extreme.
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        -------Original Message-------
        While most tetras come from defitely low pH waters, and most from the black waters, the opposite conditions bring on a natural 'stress load' that is often not considered, and if tere are changes--like from the Amazon to a shipper to a carrier to a major wholesaler to a job shopper or dealer, and then to your tank...there's a lot of stress for the physiology to handle--and many come in with internal parasites, not ich, that often maniest themselves in small ways.
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7952 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My tank
            Yeah, 5 or more is enough for tetras.  But if you want them to look really good it would be best to have 10 or more.  I have small numbers of tetras that I planed to get more of, but now the fish store is closed and I don't have a source of them. :( 
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        -------Original Message-------
        I have researched stocking.  I'm trying to take it slowly.  By the way, in the two books and numerous websites I've read, I've never seen it recommended to have 10-20 of each tetra.  The all recommend 5-6.
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7953 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates
            Oh, yeah, the chemicals. :)  I like chemicals, they keep the bugs off the garden plants.  But I am from the side that says chemicals should be avoided when possible.  But again, I was stating my opinion and will not argue that aquariums can't be kept healthy without water changes because I know they can.  :)
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        -------Original Message-------
        PRIME AND AMQUEL PLUS ALSO NEUTRALIZE THEM
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7954 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
            Could the gouramis have been fighting when you were not looking?  The survivor may have killed the others.  Just an idea.  It could have been bad stock or treatment at the store or breeder or some hidden disease.
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        -------Original Message-------
        I have 3 tanks.  a 20 Gallon, a 10 Gallon and a 55 gallon.  I'm have probelems with the 55 gallon and I can't for the life of me figure out whats going on.  I sat the tank up on September 5th and I did a fishless cycel.  Well after all my spikes and what not I added 4 Dwarf Gouami (3 Femails and 1 Male). Then on November 6th I added 4 Panda Cory's and a Candy Stripe Pleco.
         
        Well Everyhing seemed find and dandy for a while on november 25th the the Pleco got trapped and died.  So I did a water change check levels and all were fine.  Then pn December 31st I lost on of the Dwarf Gouami, then on January 17th I lost the Male Dwarf Gouami, then today I lost another female Dwarf Gouami.
         
        I do 25% water changes ever 7 to 10 days most of the time weekly.  I'm having no problems with my other 2 tanks.  I understand why the Pleco died, but I've lost 3 of my 4 Dwarf Gouami and have no idea why.  Any input would be great.  The 4 Panda Corrys in the tank are getting bigger and seem to be doing fine.
         
        Robb
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7955 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My tank
        But, with a 20 gallon tank, I can't really get 10 of two types of tetras, can I?
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
            Yeah, 5 or more is enough for tetras.  But if you want them to look really good it would be best to have 10 or more.  I have small numbers of tetras that I planed to get more of, but now the fish store is closed and I don't have a source of them. :( 
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        -------Original Message-------
        I have researched stocking.  I'm trying to take it slowly.  By the way, in the two books and numerous websites I've read, I've never seen it recommended to have 10-20 of each tetra.  The all recommend 5-6.
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7956 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My tank
            If all you are going to have is two species of tetras, I would think you could have 10 of each, unless they are one of the larger tetras (congo, etc.).  But right now you have several different species.  If you can, it would be best to pick one or two of them and take the rest back.
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        -------Original Message-------
        But, with a 20 gallon tank, I can't really get 10 of two types of tetras, can I?
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7957 From: dreammaker2623 Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates
        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick, The
        American Fish Guy" <americanfishguy@h...> wrote:
        > Oh, yeah, the chemicals. :) I like chemicals, they keep the
        bugs off
        > the garden plants. But I am from the side that says chemicals
        should be
        > avoided when possible. But again, I was stating my opinion and
        will not
        > argue that aquariums can't be kept healthy without water changes
        because I
        > know they can. :)
        >
        There is a difference between surviving and thriving. The fish with
        out the water changes might gust have been surviving and nt thriving
        with possible breeding. I like to have my fish breed for me but I
        would not attemp to have them breed for me if I did not do water
        changes.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7958 From: RCG Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My tank
        Applies to Barbs & cichlids, but not tetras. Also, part of the rule of thumb regarding 5-6 is that with six you get a pair...statistically, though almost the same with 5.
         
        Cichlids & Barbs have tendency to harass each other...cichlids also defend territory.
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: paul helms
        Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 9:24 AM
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My tank

        5-6 is generally the minimum number to keep them from
        fighting
        paul
        --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

        > I have researched stocking.  I'm trying to take it
        > slowly.  By the way, in the two books and numerous
        > websites I've read, I've never seen it recommended
        > to have 10-20 of each tetra.  The all recommend 5-6.
        >
        > -------------- Original message --------------
        >
        > You should have 10 to 20 each of two tetra species
        > for schooling purposes; 1/2 doze or so for the
        > cory's. You could have neons & lemon tetras together
        > quite well; they're both mid-water fish. The zebras
        > ae much faster and are top fish.
        >
        > Really should look up some good references for
        > comaptible fish; Innes [old version] and wonderufl
        > 'housing' arrangement for 7-8 types of setups that
        > are still applicable today.
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Dan & Theresa
        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 4:14 AM
        > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My tank
        >
        >
        > A big problem with your stock is that you have
        > schooling fish that aren't in
        > schools. You don't have room for 7 schools in a 20g,
        > so it would really be
        > best to decide which you'd like to complete and
        > return the others. Many
        > tetras will display shyness when not in schools; the
        > danios tend to be
        > nippier towards other fish when kept in small
        > groups.
        >
        >
        > Theresa
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Angela" <angelasjenkins@...>
        > >
        > > You've helped me with the 20 gallon tank Santa
        > brought.  I thought
        > > I'd bring you up to date on it.  We added our
        > first fish, a Buenos
        > > Aires Tetra and Black Skirt Tetra two weeks ago
        > yesterday.  We've
        > > periodically had the water tested at the fish shop
        > and added fish.
        > > As of today, we have:
        > >
        > > 2 black skirt tetras
        > > 1 buenos aires tetra
        > > 3 zebra danios
        > > 2 neon tetras
        > > 2 emerald cory catfish
        > > 1 lemon tetra
        > > 1 serpae tetra
        > > 1 frog
        > >
        > > Losses:  1 neon tetra (disappeared, looked
        > everywhere and never
        > > found him) and two zebra danio's died last night.
        > The water had a
        > > slight amount of ammonia and I did a 4-5 gallon
        > water change (first
        > > change since fish were added).  I was in a hurry
        > and forgot to de-
        > > chlorinate the water and they died very quickly.
        > Once I realized
        > > what I'd done, I added the de-chlorinator and the
        > others have
        > > survived.
        > >
        > > Now my question, what should I be on the lookout
        > for?  When will I
        > > be considered through the danger zone and be
        > considered "cycled"?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when
        > replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when
        > replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        >
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        >  
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        >
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7959 From: RCG Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
        Any other candidates in the tank that might be a 'rogue killer'?
        Also, temp/pH within their ranges, any new introductions to that tank that might have intorduced parasites?
         
        Nitrate/trite within tolerances?
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Robb Rouse
        Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 10:25 AM
        Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing

        I have 3 tanks.  a 20 Gallon, a 10 Gallon and a 55 gallon.  I'm have probelems with the 55 gallon and I can't for the life of me figure out whats going on.  I sat the tank up on September 5th and I did a fishless cycel.  Well after all my spikes and what not I added 4 Dwarf Gouami (3 Femails and 1 Male). Then on November 6th I added 4 Panda Cory's and a Candy Stripe Pleco.
         
        Well Everyhing seemed find and dandy for a while on november 25th the the Pleco got trapped and died.  So I did a water change check levels and all were fine.  Then pn December 31st I lost on of the Dwarf Gouami, then on January 17th I lost the Male Dwarf Gouami, then today I lost another female Dwarf Gouami.
         
        I do 25% water changes ever 7 to 10 days most of the time weekly.  I'm having no problems with my other 2 tanks.  I understand why the Pleco died, but I've lost 3 of my 4 Dwarf Gouami and have no idea why.  Any input would be great.  The 4 Panda Corrys in the tank are getting bigger and seem to be doing fine.
         
        Robb


        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7960 From: RCG Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My tank
        With filtration you can get much more than that. You could probably do 50 in a 10 with filtration, though it wouldn't be really long enough for them to cavort naturally. A 20 is better, a 20L or 33L would be ideal for them.
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 3:47 PM
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My tank

        But, with a 20 gallon tank, I can't really get 10 of two types of tetras, can I?
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
            Yeah, 5 or more is enough for tetras.  But if you want them to look really good it would be best to have 10 or more.  I have small numbers of tetras that I planed to get more of, but now the fish store is closed and I don't have a source of them. :( 
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        -------Original Message-------
        I have researched stocking.  I'm trying to take it slowly.  By the way, in the two books and numerous websites I've read, I've never seen it recommended to have 10-20 of each tetra.  The all recommend 5-6.
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

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        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7961 From: RCG Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich
        So, remove one layer of transport from the equation, and perhaps a little of the pH issue, but the kernal of truth still remains via the tansport issue.
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 12:57 PM
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich

            But many of the fish (including tetras) have never even heard of Latin America, they are raised on farms that may have more neutral pH and hardness.  Those fish are less stressed by hard water or basic pH, as long as it is not an extreme.
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        -------Original Message-------
        While most tetras come from defitely low pH waters, and most from the black waters, the opposite conditions bring on a natural 'stress load' that is often not considered, and if tere are changes--like from the Amazon to a shipper to a carrier to a major wholesaler to a job shopper or dealer, and then to your tank...there's a lot of stress for the physiology to handle--and many come in with internal parasites, not ich, that often maniest themselves in small ways.
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7962 From: paul helms Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My tank
        with proper filtration you can

        --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

        > But, with a 20 gallon tank, I can't really get 10 of
        > two types of tetras, can I?
        >
        > -------------- Original message --------------
        > Yeah, 5 or more is enough for tetras. But if
        > you want them to look really good it would be best
        > to have 10 or more. I have small numbers of tetras
        > that I planed to get more of, but now the fish store
        > is closed and I don't have a source of them. :(
        >
        > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
        >
        > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
        > Cycle.
        > Nitrogen Cycle
        > About my tanks:
        > 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        > -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
        > skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus
        > catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta,
        > and 1 paradise gourami.
        > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
        > banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon
        > swords.
        > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
        > 30-60 power filter.
        > 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        > -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        > -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
        > amazon sword.
        > -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
        > gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        > -------Original Message-------
        > I have researched stocking. I'm trying to take it
        > slowly. By the way, in the two books and numerous
        > websites I've read, I've never seen it recommended
        > to have 10-20 of each tetra. The all recommend 5-6.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when
        > replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        >
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >
        FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
        > Terms of Service.





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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7963 From: paul helms Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
        for one, 25% is far too much to be changes at a
        time....while you are testing fine, it is probably
        because you are doing the work of your bio filter
        which is more than likely gone from over cleaning. if
        you are doing weekly changes and the tank is healthy,
        it should be more like 5-10% even 10% biweekly would
        be sufficient....in fact with taht small of a bio oad
        in a 55 5% a month would be sufficient.....over
        cleaning is bad...water changes are not inherently
        bad, but over used. 20% per month is what i advise,
        however you want to break that up...weekly,
        biweekly-triweekly..just not too much too fats, which
        25% is.
        paul
        --- Robb Rouse <robbrouse@...> wrote:

        > I have 3 tanks. a 20 Gallon, a 10 Gallon and a 55
        > gallon. I'm have probelems with the 55 gallon and I
        > can't for the life of me figure out whats going on.
        > I sat the tank up on September 5th and I did a
        > fishless cycel. Well after all my spikes and what
        > not I added 4 Dwarf Gouami (3 Femails and 1 Male).
        > Then on November 6th I added 4 Panda Cory's and a
        > Candy Stripe Pleco.
        >
        > Well Everyhing seemed find and dandy for a while on
        > november 25th the the Pleco got trapped and died.
        > So I did a water change check levels and all were
        > fine. Then pn December 31st I lost on of the Dwarf
        > Gouami, then on January 17th I lost the Male Dwarf
        > Gouami, then today I lost another female Dwarf
        > Gouami.
        >
        > I do 25% water changes ever 7 to 10 days most of the
        > time weekly. I'm having no problems with my other 2
        > tanks. I understand why the Pleco died, but I've
        > lost 3 of my 4 Dwarf Gouami and have no idea why.
        > Any input would be great. The 4 Panda Corrys in the
        > tank are getting bigger and seem to be doing fine.
        >
        > Robb




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7964 From: RCG Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
        I would respectfully disagree with your choices on water changes.
         
        Fish, usually, live in moving, or circulating water, so the removal of waste products is an essential element of both waste products, GIS, and decomposed materials.
         
        It has been proven over the past 50 years that regular water changes anywhere from 25% and up, on a weekly basis, even on small tanks, is much more beneficial to aquatic subjects than smaller changes. In fact, in smaller tanks, it is more essential to change more than less, and regularly.
         
        If you doubt the wisdom, then just think of yourself as living in a urinal--the analogy is fairly similar, or in a cigar-smoke filled room.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: paul helms
        Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 9:28 PM
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing

        for one, 25% is far too much to be changes at a
        time....while you are testing fine, it is probably
        because you are doing the work of your bio filter
        which is more than likely gone from over cleaning.  if
        you are doing weekly changes and the tank is healthy,
        it should be more like 5-10%  even 10% biweekly would
        be sufficient....in fact with taht small of a bio oad
        in a 55 5% a month would be sufficient.....over
        cleaning is bad...water changes are not inherently
        bad, but over used.  20% per month is what i advise,
        however you want to break that up...weekly,
        biweekly-triweekly..just not too much too fats, which
        25% is.
        paul
        --- Robb Rouse <robbrouse@...> wrote:

        > I have 3 tanks.  a 20 Gallon, a 10 Gallon and a 55
        > gallon.  I'm have probelems with the 55 gallon and I
        > can't for the life of me figure out whats going on.
        > I sat the tank up on September 5th and I did a
        > fishless cycel.  Well after all my spikes and what
        > not I added 4 Dwarf Gouami (3 Femails and 1 Male).
        > Then on November 6th I added 4 Panda Cory's and a
        > Candy Stripe Pleco.
        >
        > Well Everyhing seemed find and dandy for a while on
        > november 25th the the Pleco got trapped and died.
        > So I did a water change check levels and all were
        > fine.  Then pn December 31st I lost on of the Dwarf
        > Gouami, then on January 17th I lost the Male Dwarf
        > Gouami, then today I lost another female Dwarf
        > Gouami.
        >
        > I do 25% water changes ever 7 to 10 days most of the
        > time weekly.  I'm having no problems with my other 2
        > tanks.  I understand why the Pleco died, but I've
        > lost 3 of my 4 Dwarf Gouami and have no idea why.
        > Any input would be great.  The 4 Panda Corrys in the
        > tank are getting bigger and seem to be doing fine.
        >
        > Robb



                   
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7965 From: paul helms Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
        as previously dicussed (aparently you missed it) it is
        a controversial topic that has varying opinions. it
        is not worth comparing a tank to a river for the
        simple fact that you do not have a stable flow of
        water coming in...changing water weekly is not the
        same as millions of gallons per hour being passed
        through a given position....however you could compare
        it to a land locked lake which does not have a
        constant flow....
        --- RCG <project_management_guru@...> wrote:

        > I would respectfully disagree with your choices on
        > water changes.
        >
        > Fish, usually, live in moving, or circulating water,
        > so the removal of waste products is an essential
        > element of both waste products, GIS, and decomposed
        > materials.
        >
        > It has been proven over the past 50 years that
        > regular water changes anywhere from 25% and up, on a
        > weekly basis, even on small tanks, is much more
        > beneficial to aquatic subjects than smaller changes.
        > In fact, in smaller tanks, it is more essential to
        > change more than less, and regularly.
        >
        > If you doubt the wisdom, then just think of yourself
        > as living in a urinal--the analogy is fairly
        > similar, or in a cigar-smoke filled room.
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: paul helms
        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 9:28 PM
        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
        >
        >
        > for one, 25% is far too much to be changes at a
        > time....while you are testing fine, it is probably
        > because you are doing the work of your bio filter
        > which is more than likely gone from over cleaning.
        > if
        > you are doing weekly changes and the tank is
        > healthy,
        > it should be more like 5-10% even 10% biweekly
        > would
        > be sufficient....in fact with taht small of a bio
        > oad
        > in a 55 5% a month would be sufficient.....over
        > cleaning is bad...water changes are not inherently
        > bad, but over used. 20% per month is what i
        > advise,
        > however you want to break that up...weekly,
        > biweekly-triweekly..just not too much too fats,
        > which
        > 25% is.
        > paul
        > --- Robb Rouse <robbrouse@...> wrote:
        >
        > > I have 3 tanks. a 20 Gallon, a 10 Gallon and a
        > 55
        > > gallon. I'm have probelems with the 55 gallon
        > and I
        > > can't for the life of me figure out whats going
        > on.
        > > I sat the tank up on September 5th and I did a
        > > fishless cycel. Well after all my spikes and
        > what
        > > not I added 4 Dwarf Gouami (3 Femails and 1
        > Male).
        > > Then on November 6th I added 4 Panda Cory's and
        > a
        > > Candy Stripe Pleco.
        > >
        > > Well Everyhing seemed find and dandy for a while
        > on
        > > november 25th the the Pleco got trapped and
        > died.
        > > So I did a water change check levels and all
        > were
        > > fine. Then pn December 31st I lost on of the
        > Dwarf
        > > Gouami, then on January 17th I lost the Male
        > Dwarf
        > > Gouami, then today I lost another female Dwarf
        > > Gouami.
        > >
        > > I do 25% water changes ever 7 to 10 days most of
        > the
        > > time weekly. I'm having no problems with my
        > other 2
        > > tanks. I understand why the Pleco died, but
        > I've
        > > lost 3 of my 4 Dwarf Gouami and have no idea
        > why.
        > > Any input would be great. The 4 Panda Corrys in
        > the
        > > tank are getting bigger and seem to be doing
        > fine.
        > >
        > > Robb
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
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        > Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage
        > less.
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        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it
        > when replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >
        > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
        >
        >
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        >
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        >
        >
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7966 From: paul helms Date: 1/19/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
        neither of these analogies is at all what it is like.
        tanks have bio filters that when used correctly filter
        the waste, it is more like living in ahouse. if your
        toilet doesn't work you live in your filtth and
        eventually get sick....where as if your ventilation,
        heating, cooing, and waste management system are all
        function .....no problem
        --- RCG <project_management_guru@...> wrote:

        > I would respectfully disagree with your choices on
        > water changes.
        >
        > Fish, usually, live in moving, or circulating water,
        > so the removal of waste products is an essential
        > element of both waste products, GIS, and decomposed
        > materials.
        >
        > It has been proven over the past 50 years that
        > regular water changes anywhere from 25% and up, on a
        > weekly basis, even on small tanks, is much more
        > beneficial to aquatic subjects than smaller changes.
        > In fact, in smaller tanks, it is more essential to
        > change more than less, and regularly.
        >
        > If you doubt the wisdom, then just think of yourself
        > as living in a urinal--the analogy is fairly
        > similar, or in a cigar-smoke filled room.
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: paul helms
        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 9:28 PM
        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
        >
        >
        > for one, 25% is far too much to be changes at a
        > time....while you are testing fine, it is probably
        > because you are doing the work of your bio filter
        > which is more than likely gone from over cleaning.
        > if
        > you are doing weekly changes and the tank is
        > healthy,
        > it should be more like 5-10% even 10% biweekly
        > would
        > be sufficient....in fact with taht small of a bio
        > oad
        > in a 55 5% a month would be sufficient.....over
        > cleaning is bad...water changes are not inherently
        > bad, but over used. 20% per month is what i
        > advise,
        > however you want to break that up...weekly,
        > biweekly-triweekly..just not too much too fats,
        > which
        > 25% is.
        > paul
        > --- Robb Rouse <robbrouse@...> wrote:
        >
        > > I have 3 tanks. a 20 Gallon, a 10 Gallon and a
        > 55
        > > gallon. I'm have probelems with the 55 gallon
        > and I
        > > can't for the life of me figure out whats going
        > on.
        > > I sat the tank up on September 5th and I did a
        > > fishless cycel. Well after all my spikes and
        > what
        > > not I added 4 Dwarf Gouami (3 Femails and 1
        > Male).
        > > Then on November 6th I added 4 Panda Cory's and
        > a
        > > Candy Stripe Pleco.
        > >
        > > Well Everyhing seemed find and dandy for a while
        > on
        > > november 25th the the Pleco got trapped and
        > died.
        > > So I did a water change check levels and all
        > were
        > > fine. Then pn December 31st I lost on of the
        > Dwarf
        > > Gouami, then on January 17th I lost the Male
        > Dwarf
        > > Gouami, then today I lost another female Dwarf
        > > Gouami.
        > >
        > > I do 25% water changes ever 7 to 10 days most of
        > the
        > > time weekly. I'm having no problems with my
        > other 2
        > > tanks. I understand why the Pleco died, but
        > I've
        > > lost 3 of my 4 Dwarf Gouami and have no idea
        > why.
        > > Any input would be great. The 4 Panda Corrys in
        > the
        > > tank are getting bigger and seem to be doing
        > fine.
        > >
        > > Robb
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
        > Do you Yahoo!?
        > Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage
        > less.
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        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it
        > when replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >
        > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
        >
        >
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        >
        > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
        > email to:
        >
        >
        FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
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        > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        >
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7967 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My tank
        He speaks the truth. Right now we have 5 cory catfish, ten black
        tetras, ten neon tetras, and about a dozen guppies, along with a male
        and a female betta (they get along just fine), and a large angelfish
        that we want to move into a big aquarium as soon as we can afford
        one. All in a 20 gallon. Using live plants really helps to control
        the nitrates and detrius, and using a good filter.

        > with proper filtration you can
        >
        > --- angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
        >
        > > But, with a 20 gallon tank, I can't really get 10 of
        > > two types of tetras, can I?
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7968 From: Tim Fairchild Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
        On Thursday 20 Jan 2005 16:45, paul helms wrote:
        > as previously dicussed (aparently you missed it) it is
        > a controversial topic that has varying opinions. it

        While that difference of opinion may be true, and while you can get away with
        less water changes in some situations and with some fish, there is no reason
        to suggest to people that they might be harming or killing fish with a 25%
        water change, which is just plain silly as we all know here that you can do a
        100% daily water change without harming the fish as long as the water quality
        is correct. I have gone with long periods without water changes in years past
        without great trouble - until the fish eventually died from it (this was 20
        years ago). Likewise I have found the fish do quite well on a weekly 25%
        water change.

        > is not worth comparing a tank to a river for the
        > simple fact that you do not have a stable flow of
        > water coming in...changing water weekly is not the
        > same as millions of gallons per hour being passed
        > through a given position....however you could compare
        > it to a land locked lake which does not have a
        > constant flow....

        I think if you worked out the inches of fish per gallon in the lake you'd find
        it a little different to the average tank ;)

        Plus many fish in the wild can cope with extremes. the australian gudgeon is
        difficult to kill with ammonia and nitrites and makes a great for cycling...
        Aquarium fish are very sensative by comparison.

        tim


        --
        ---------------------------------------------------------
        Tim & Therese Fairchild
        Atchafalaya Border Collies.
        Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia.
        ---------------------------------------------------------
        Email mailto:tim@...
        Homepage http://www.bcs4me.com
        Photos http://www.pbase.com/amosf
        ---------------------------------------------------------
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7969 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My tank
        Ok, which tetras would you choose, then?  I want something hardy.  The neons didn't last long.  I love the corys, too.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
        with proper filtration you can

        --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

        > But, with a 20 gallon tank, I can't really get 10 of
        > two types of tetras, can I?
        >
        > -------------- Original message --------------
        >     Yeah, 5 or more is enough for tetras.  But if
        > you want them to look really good it would be best
        > to have 10 or more.  I have small numbers of tetras
        > that I planed to get more of, but now the fish store
        > is closed and I don't have a source of them. :(
        >
        > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
        >
        > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
        > Cycle.
        > Nitrogen Cycle
        > About my tanks: 
        > 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        > -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
        > skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus
        > catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta,
        > and 1 paradise gourami.
        > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
        > banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon
        > swords.
        > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
        > 30-60 power filter.
        > 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        > -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        > -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
        > amazon sword.
        > -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
        > gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        > -------Original Message-------
        > I have researched stocking.  I'm trying to take it
        > slowly.  By the way, in the two books and numerous
        > websites I've read, I've never seen it recommended
        > to have 10-20 of each tetra.  The all recommend 5-6.
        >
        >

        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when
        > replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        >
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        >  
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >
        FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >  
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
        > Terms of Service.



             
                   
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        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7970 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
        Here we go again! :) 
         
            I really like the lake analogy, although a fishing pond on a farm would be even better.  These ponds are more like tanks.  But in place of water changes, they are only topped off with rain water.  That is like topping off a fish tank with R/O water.  Even one that is not stocked with huge numbers of fish usually has a good number of large food fish.  Anything that goes into such a pond would never leave unless it spilled out in a flood (occasional water change of a small amount). 
            But at the same time, weekly water changes of any amount up to about 80% won't hurt.  In the Amazon, the water is constantly being changed slowly by rain.  The bacteria live in the gravel and filter and only require a minimum amount of ammonia not detected on any of the common home ammonia tests to continue living.  That ammonia is supplied by the fish constantly, so as soon as the water change is over the ammonia supply is back.
            In reality, both sides are living in the land of theory.  No matter how many tanks we have kept with our preferred method, we will have never done more than kept tanks under different circumstances.  The only way to know for sure is to do tests using the proper scientific methods using 100 tanks for each method, each containing the same fish species (say three of the more hardy Cichlids and a small pleco species, all at 2 inches) and plants.  It would be best to use a 30 or 50 gallon tank some kind of hardy fish that grows at a rate that they should be able to study their growth over a year.  Every month they should be measured.  At the end of the year, measure the average length of the fish.  Don't count the fact that some die, that should be a random event that will average out through the 200 tanks.  It is the total length of all fish that is important.  By finding out if there is a difference in the total length of all fish, we would know for certain if there is any harm being done by either method.  Now we just need a research grant...
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7971 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Woot! And stubborn mollies
        Falling Leaf (my daughters female betta) is on her third mate.
        Methuselah, if you remember, passed away in the throes of passion.
        Tanzanite was just too rough for my sensitive daughter...but she has
        a male betta named Fire Opal that gets along with her just fine.
        They've been in the tank together now for about three months. And
        today I woke up to a humongous bubble nest in the quietest spot of
        the tank, right next to the heater. I'm going to leave it alone,
        maybe put in a net divider in that area to keep the other fish away,
        and hope for the best. Don't want to move it now.

        We have three mollies, or two mollies and one platy...not really
        sure. They were given to us, and the female mollies I could swear
        are pregnant. They are enormous! But they haven't given birth. The
        ambiguous one is a male, and I'm wondering if the coloration makes a
        difference in whether or not they mate? The mollies are black and
        white marbled, and silver. The platy/molly is red and black. I'm not
        actually desiring them to mate, as they quickly overpopulate a tank,
        but it's got me concerned that these mollies look like they've been
        blown up as balloons. Makes me uncomfy just to look at them, though
        they don't seem concerned.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7972 From: Steve Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
        There has been some work done along scientific lines, but not much. Read the
        chapter in the book I cited the other day for information. It does support
        water changes at the time it was written, but also held out a carrot to
        those who would prefer not to do water changes. I've not looked recently,
        but this seems to be the only work available at the current time. I've just
        done a quick search on the web, using a scientific search engine, and came
        up with 463 journal hits on water change, ranked by relevance. I went
        through the first 100 titles, looking for fish and/or aquaria related
        articles, and found about 15 of those, after reading the abstracts. I then
        used a username and password to access the full articles. I scanned each
        article. All the experiments talked about used water changes to maintain an
        environment suitable for the experiment. All the articles talked a bit about
        the filtration they were using as well, at minimum sufficient for the home
        aquarium. I thought, at first, one article was going to argue against water
        changes, but it did not. They merely needed to find a way to change water so
        as not to disrupt the experiment, which they did.

        This would seem to indicate that, at least to scientists, water changes are
        an important part of maintaining an environment.

        This would also seem to belay the old adage that scientists can't keep fish
        alive also <g>. (I'm sure that someone would bring that up sooner or later.)

        \\Steve//

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy [mailto:americanfishguy@...]
        Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 10:59 AM
        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing


        Here we go again! :)

        I really like the lake analogy, although a fishing pond on a farm would
        be even better. These ponds are more like tanks. But in place of water
        changes, they are only topped off with rain water. That is like topping off
        a fish tank with R/O water. Even one that is not stocked with huge numbers
        of fish usually has a good number of large food fish. Anything that goes
        into such a pond would never leave unless it spilled out in a flood
        (occasional water change of a small amount).
        But at the same time, weekly water changes of any amount up to about 80%
        won't hurt. In the Amazon, the water is constantly being changed slowly by
        rain. The bacteria live in the gravel and filter and only require a minimum
        amount of ammonia not detected on any of the common home ammonia tests to
        continue living. That ammonia is supplied by the fish constantly, so as
        soon as the water change is over the ammonia supply is back.
        In reality, both sides are living in the land of theory. No matter how
        many tanks we have kept with our preferred method, we will have never done
        more than kept tanks under different circumstances. The only way to know
        for sure is to do tests using the proper scientific methods using 100 tanks
        for each method, each containing the same fish species (say three of the
        more hardy Cichlids and a small pleco species, all at 2 inches) and plants.
        It would be best to use a 30 or 50 gallon tank some kind of hardy fish that
        grows at a rate that they should be able to study their growth over a year.
        Every month they should be measured. At the end of the year, measure the
        average length of the fish. Don't count the fact that some die, that should
        be a random event that will average out through the 200 tanks. It is the
        total length of all fish that is important. By finding out if there is a
        difference in the total length of all fish, we would know for certain if
        there is any harm being done by either method. Now we just need a research
        grant...

        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7973 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
        I am by no means an expert, but I tend to go along with the 'WHATEVER
        WORKS' philosophy. I don't do water changes. Ever. I've lost more
        fish to water changes than I have without doing them. We did have
        one recent disaster after four years of stability, but that had less
        to do with water change than overfeeding, overpopulation and bad
        filtration. We top off the water as it evaporates, but otherwise let
        the plants and filters take care of keeping the water clean.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7974 From: Ben Noreau Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
        Hello,

        Although I am a newbie to keeping fish I have
        raised other animals as pets. Although it is a
        tedious task to change the water in the tank, it is a
        task that comes with having fish as pets. It is a
        necessary evil.

        I realize that there are those that are looking
        to see when the appropriate time is for the best
        interest of the fish, but if you are looking to
        procrastinate the water changes then you probably
        shouldnt have fish.

        BenN


        =====



        Ben




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7975 From: ranginute Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Poll - Water changes and how often
        I have had a very fun time reading all of the debate on water
        changes. I would be willing to go either way on the argument, I
        guess I am a ambi-changer. I have had tanks that have gone six
        months without a water change and I did not see adverse effects on
        the fish, (community tanks - Display).

        On the other hand, if you are trying to condition fish for breeding
        or you want the most colorful and vibrant fish, you have to do
        occasional water changes. But to be honest, I have never done 25%
        weekly water changes and I have bred Oscars, Angel Fish, Convicts,
        white clouds (yeah, I know, they would breed in a teaspoon of hot
        water), and Cory cats, although the cats did not reach maturity.

        Let me be the first entry into the poll...I do water changes, but
        more on a monthly basis and not weekly.

        Randy
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7976 From: stormluver89 Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Need help figuring out what this is!!
        We have a 55 gal tank, currently there are only white stones, no
        plants, minnows (to get the cycle going, about 100 baby apple
        snails. I have these crescent shaped things in the tank and we have
        NO idea what they are. The crescent is clear with little white
        specks on them. They tend to stick to the side of the tank and the
        stones. We have checked the water and it's normal. The lighting is
        appropriate for the tank size. We live in Michigan if that matters.
        Use the tap water to fill it first and then let it set for a couple
        of weeks with the filter running of course. Any ideas what this stuff
        could be?? It's gross looking!!!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7977 From: Ben Noreau Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Poll - Water changes and how often
        Hello,

        I do it on the basis of quantity and quality.
        If the water level drops due to the heat in the appt.
        I also change it if it looks the least bit cloudy.
        (For some reason it gets a milky appearance. I have
        been changing at about 3 weeks.

        Ben
        --- ranginute <rw9673@...> wrote:

        >
        > I have had a very fun time reading all of the debate
        > on water
        > changes. I would be willing to go either way on the
        > argument, I
        > guess I am a ambi-changer. I have had tanks that
        > have gone six
        > months without a water change and I did not see
        > adverse effects on
        > the fish, (community tanks - Display).
        >
        > On the other hand, if you are trying to condition
        > fish for breeding
        > or you want the most colorful and vibrant fish, you
        > have to do
        > occasional water changes. But to be honest, I have
        > never done 25%
        > weekly water changes and I have bred Oscars, Angel
        > Fish, Convicts,
        > white clouds (yeah, I know, they would breed in a
        > teaspoon of hot
        > water), and Cory cats, although the cats did not
        > reach maturity.
        >
        > Let me be the first entry into the poll...I do water
        > changes, but
        > more on a monthly basis and not weekly.
        >
        > Randy
        >
        >
        >
        >


        =====



        Ben


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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7978 From: Amalthea Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need help figuring out what this is!!
        it sounds like snail eggs. if you don't want the snails, just scrape
        them off the side and flush them.
        amalthea
        http://www.amaltheasattic.com
        Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
        On Jan 20, 2005, at 4:13 PM, stormluver89 wrote:

        >
        >
        > We have a 55 gal tank, currently there are only white stones, no
        > plants, minnows (to get the cycle going, about 100 baby apple
        > snails.  I have these crescent shaped things in the tank and we have
        > NO idea what they are.  The crescent is clear with little white
        > specks on them.  They tend to stick to the side of the tank and the
        > stones.  We have checked the water and it's normal.  The lighting is
        > appropriate for the tank size.  We live in Michigan if that matters.
        > Use the tap water to fill it first and then let it set for a couple
        > of weeks with the filter running of course. Any ideas what this stuff
        > could be?? It's gross looking!!!
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        >  
        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >  
        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        > Service.
        >
        >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7979 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need help figuring out what this is!!
        In a message dated 1/20/2005 1:30:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, teridavis89@... writes:
        The crescent is clear with little white
        specks on them.  They tend to stick to the side of the tank and the
        stones.  We have checked the water and it's normal.  The lighting is
        appropriate for the tank size.  We live in Michigan if that matters.
        Use the tap water to fill it first and then let it set for a couple
        of weeks with the filter running of course. Any ideas what this stuff
        could be?? It's gross looking!!!
        Baby snails.
         
        Mike
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7980 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Fading colors on my fish.
        Gidday,

        I noticed last night that my tiger barbs are loosing the color
        definitions in there stripes, i mean instead of black stripes there
        turning grey. My tanks still cycling (3 weeks old) and i have high
        nitrites. Also the scales look a little funny as well. The tiger
        barbs seem to be hiding more too.

        Is this because of the nitrite problem or should i show it to my local
        fish pet shop?

        =Nick

        300 litre tank, 7 tiger barbs, 1 bristle nose, 1 silver shark and
        probably 20 guppies (won't keep still when i try to count them).
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7981 From: wjcoldman Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: Poll - Water changes and how often
        Hey Good Topic

        I have three tanks running now.

        55 gal reef water changes 15gal every 20 days it's running great.

        60 gal fresh water planted 15-20 gal once a month plus I topp off
        weekely with fresh water

        24 gal fresh water / plants 5-7 gal every 2 weeks plus top offs.

        Walter
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7982 From: paul helms Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fading colors on my fish.
        probably nitrites
        --- Nicolas Munro <nicolas.munro@...>
        wrote:

        > Gidday,
        >
        > I noticed last night that my tiger barbs are loosing
        > the color
        > definitions in there stripes, i mean instead of
        > black stripes there
        > turning grey. My tanks still cycling (3 weeks old)
        > and i have high
        > nitrites. Also the scales look a little funny as
        > well. The tiger
        > barbs seem to be hiding more too.
        >
        > Is this because of the nitrite problem or should i
        > show it to my local
        > fish pet shop?
        >
        > =Nick
        >
        > 300 litre tank, 7 tiger barbs, 1 bristle nose, 1
        > silver shark and
        > probably 20 guppies (won't keep still when i try to
        > count them).
        >
        >
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7983 From: paul helms Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
        anything to keep it going huh?
        and just so you know...water quality is vastly
        different today than 20 years ago...in fact vastly
        differnent form 5 years ago
        --- Tim Fairchild <tim@...> wrote:

        > On Thursday 20 Jan 2005 16:45, paul helms wrote:
        > > as previously dicussed (aparently you missed it)
        > it is
        > > a controversial topic that has varying opinions.
        > it
        >
        > While that difference of opinion may be true, and
        > while you can get away with
        > less water changes in some situations and with some
        > fish, there is no reason
        > to suggest to people that they might be harming or
        > killing fish with a 25%
        > water change, which is just plain silly as we all
        > know here that you can do a
        > 100% daily water change without harming the fish as
        > long as the water quality
        > is correct. I have gone with long periods without
        > water changes in years past
        > without great trouble - until the fish eventually
        > died from it (this was 20
        > years ago). Likewise I have found the fish do quite
        > well on a weekly 25%
        > water change.
        >
        > > is not worth comparing a tank to a river for the
        > > simple fact that you do not have a stable flow of
        > > water coming in...changing water weekly is not the
        > > same as millions of gallons per hour being passed
        > > through a given position....however you could
        > compare
        > > it to a land locked lake which does not have a
        > > constant flow....
        >
        > I think if you worked out the inches of fish per
        > gallon in the lake you'd find
        > it a little different to the average tank ;)
        >
        > Plus many fish in the wild can cope with extremes.
        > the australian gudgeon is
        > difficult to kill with ammonia and nitrites and
        > makes a great for cycling...
        > Aquarium fish are very sensative by comparison.
        >
        > tim
        >
        >
        > --
        >
        ---------------------------------------------------------
        > Tim & Therese Fairchild
        > Atchafalaya Border Collies.
        > Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia.
        >
        ---------------------------------------------------------
        > Email mailto:tim@...
        > Homepage http://www.bcs4me.com
        > Photos http://www.pbase.com/amosf
        >
        ---------------------------------------------------------
        >





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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7984 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Poll - Water changes and how often
            When I change water depends on the tank.  For the 29 gallon it is every 7-14 days, depending on when I get the time, of 7 gallons.  For the 10 gallon it is about every 5 days of 2.5 gallons.  For my 2 one-gallon tanks it is every 3-5 days of 1/2 gallon, and my quart bowls are every other day 90%.
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7985 From: paul helms Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Poll - Water changes and how often
        for my 7 gallon nano reef- never
        for my 55 gallon salt water- never
        for my 110 gallon salt water- never
        for my 30 gallon fresh- never
        lol
        --- "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
        <americanfishguy@...> wrote:

        > When I change water depends on the tank. For
        > the 29 gallon it is every
        > 7-14 days, depending on when I get the time, of 7
        > gallons. For the 10
        > gallon it is about every 5 days of 2.5 gallons. For
        > my 2 one-gallon tanks
        > it is every 3-5 days of 1/2 gallon, and my quart
        > bowls are every other day
        > 90%.
        >
        > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
        >
        > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
        > Cycle.
        > Nitrogen Cycle
        > About my tanks:
        > 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        > -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
        > skirt tetras, 2
        > home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli
        > cories, 1 pleco, one
        > female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
        > banana plants, java ferns,
        > hornwort, and amazon swords.
        > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
        > 30-60 power filter.
        > 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        > -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        > -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
        > amazon sword.
        > -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
        > gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7986 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Poll - Water changes and how often
            I think it is generally accepted that SW tanks are much lower on maintenance needs.  At least that is what I have heard from those who keep them.  I recently started a discussion on another group about why I hate SW tanks. :)
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        -------Original Message-------
        for my 7 gallon nano reef- never
        for my 55 gallon salt water- never
        for my 110 gallon salt water- never
        for my 30 gallon fresh- never
        lol
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7987 From: paul helms Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Poll - Water changes and how often
        in actuality, saltwater is twice as sensitive to water
        quality as fresh water tanks are........and they have
        teh addition of salinity and protein skimmers, so i
        don't know how they are less maintenance, actually a
        lttle more.
        lol
        --- "Patrick, The American Fish Guy"
        <americanfishguy@...> wrote:

        > I think it is generally accepted that SW tanks
        > are much lower on
        > maintenance needs. At least that is what I have
        > heard from those who keep
        > them. I recently started a discussion on another
        > group about why I hate SW
        > tanks. :)
        >
        > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
        >
        > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
        > Cycle.
        > Nitrogen Cycle
        > About my tanks:
        > 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        > -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3
        > skirt tetras, 2
        > home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli
        > cories, 1 pleco, one
        > female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
        > banana plants, java ferns,
        > hornwort, and amazon swords.
        > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
        > 30-60 power filter.
        > 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        > -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        > -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
        > amazon sword.
        > -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
        > gravel, Regent 10-15 power
        > filter.
        > -------Original Message-------
        > for my 7 gallon nano reef- never
        > for my 55 gallon salt water- never
        > for my 110 gallon salt water- never
        > for my 30 gallon fresh- never
        > lol




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7988 From: dreammaker2623 Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
        I am just a regulat tropicla fish aquarist that like to have their
        fish breed for them and have the fish grow to their fullest sizes
        and best colors. I have seen small ponds that have stunted sunfihs
        in them because there are too many fish in a too small volum of
        water. The fish give off growth inhibiting chemicles that will cause
        the population to not be able to grow to their potential size. In a
        cycled tank the bacteria turn ammonia to nitrite and then to
        nitrate. This nitrate is poisionus to the bacteria and in the long
        run can cause a die off of fish because of ammonia poisioning. If
        you have a planted tank then it will take longer for this to happen
        but it will in time. I have taken 5 gold fish and put them in a 10
        gallon tank and had another tank that held 20 gallons of water and
        also put 5 glos fish in it. I would do regulsr 25% weekly water
        changes to the smaller tank but none to the larger tank. The fish in
        the smaller tank grew faster (after a while). I gave them the same
        ammount of food and the temp was the same and there was filtration
        in both. The fish in the 20 gallon tank stop[p[ed growing at about 3
        & 1/2 inches but the fish in the 10 galon tank were still growing
        after a year and had reached about 5 & 1/2 inches when I put them in
        a pond. That is enough evidence for me to believe that water changes
        are required for a serious aquarist.







        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick, The
        American Fish Guy" <americanfishguy@h...> wrote:
        > Here we go again! :)
        >
        > I really like the lake analogy, although a fishing pond on a
        farm would
        > be even better. These ponds are more like tanks. But in place of
        water
        > changes, they are only topped off with rain water. That is like
        topping off
        > a fish tank with R/O water. Even one that is not stocked with
        huge numbers
        > of fish usually has a good number of large food fish. Anything
        that goes
        > into such a pond would never leave unless it spilled out in a flood
        > (occasional water change of a small amount).
        > But at the same time, weekly water changes of any amount up to
        about 80%
        > won't hurt. In the Amazon, the water is constantly being changed
        slowly by
        > rain. The bacteria live in the gravel and filter and only require
        a minimum
        > amount of ammonia not detected on any of the common home ammonia
        tests to
        > continue living. That ammonia is supplied by the fish constantly,
        so as
        > soon as the water change is over the ammonia supply is back.
        > In reality, both sides are living in the land of theory. No
        matter how
        > many tanks we have kept with our preferred method, we will have
        never done
        > more than kept tanks under different circumstances. The only way
        to know
        > for sure is to do tests using the proper scientific methods using
        100 tanks
        > for each method, each containing the same fish species (say three
        of the
        > more hardy Cichlids and a small pleco species, all at 2 inches)
        and plants.
        > It would be best to use a 30 or 50 gallon tank some kind of hardy
        fish that
        > grows at a rate that they should be able to study their growth
        over a year.
        > Every month they should be measured. At the end of the year,
        measure the
        > average length of the fish. Don't count the fact that some die,
        that should
        > be a random event that will average out through the 200 tanks. It
        is the
        > total length of all fish that is important. By finding out if
        there is a
        > difference in the total length of all fish, we would know for
        certain if
        > there is any harm being done by either method. Now we just need a
        research
        > grant...
        >
        >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7989 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: Fading colors on my fish.
        Nick, Its very possible that the color loss is due to the high
        nitrites. High nitrites can put much stress on the fish. You should
        not have put any fish in the tank that you intended to keep, while
        the tank is cycling. At three weeks you should be at peak or a
        little past on the nitrite spike, so the worst should be over. Never
        the less, for now you can't keep that much nitrites in the water and
        expect the fish to do well. Start making water changes (at least 25%
        as frequently as needed) to physically get rid of those nitrites
        until the bacteria can catch up with it and keep it under control.
        If the scales are starting to stand out from the fish's bodies, that
        could be the beginning of a condition/disease called Dropsey. High
        nitrites can cause enough stress for the fish to get such
        conditions/diseases, as Dropsey and/or kidney damage/failure, among
        other things. Keep an eye on those fish after water changing. Ray
        \--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas
        Munro" <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
        > Gidday,
        >
        > I noticed last night that my tiger barbs are loosing the color
        > definitions in there stripes, i mean instead of black stripes there
        > turning grey. My tanks still cycling (3 weeks old) and i have high
        > nitrites. Also the scales look a little funny as well. The tiger
        > barbs seem to be hiding more too.
        >
        > Is this because of the nitrite problem or should i show it to my
        local
        > fish pet shop?
        >
        > =Nick
        >
        > 300 litre tank, 7 tiger barbs, 1 bristle nose, 1 silver shark and
        > probably 20 guppies (won't keep still when i try to count them).
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7990 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Poll - Water changes and how often
        My addition to the poll:
         
        On my 10 gallon - I change 2 gallons every week to two weeks.  (1 Emperor Tetra, 2 glowlight tetras, 2 harlequin rasboras, 1 emerald rasbora, 1 blue ram)
         
        On my 36 gallon - I change every 7-14 days - depending on my schedule (2 angels, 1 opaline gourami, 2 CAE, 2 Giant Danios, 4 Swordtails, 2 bleeding heart tetras, 2 red-eye tetras)
         
        On my 100 gallon - I change 20 gallons weekly - tank is a mixed african:
        Fish Name Species Description Number
        Labidochromis caeruleus Mbuna Yellow Lab 2
        Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos Maingano  Mbuna Electric Blue Johanni 2
        Cobalt Blue Zebra Mbuna Cobalt Blue 1
        Pseudotropheus "cherry red"   Mbuna Red Zebra 1
        Deep Water Hap haplicromis white Electric Hap 1
        Neolamprologus pulcher Tang Daffodils 5
        Neolamprologus brichardi Tang Princess of Burundi 1
        Nimbochromis venustus haplicromis Camo colored - known as Giraffe Cichlid 1
        Hap. Rostratus???  Or maybe a Red Empress haplicromis Black and White Stripes 1
        Altolamprologus compressiceps  Tang Fire Fin - the Little fella 1
        Aulonocara stuartgranti (Ntekete) Peacock Red Shoulder Peacock 1
        Neolamprologus tretocephalus Tang Black and White Vertical Stripes 1
        Labeotropheus trewavasae (Maleri) Mbuna Long Purple  1
        Altolamprologus calvus Tang Black Calvus 2
        Synodontis Eupterus Catfish 1
        Cyrtocara moorii haplicromis Hap moorii, Blue Dolphin 1
        Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" (Msuli) Mbuna Yellow Tail Acei 1
        Cyphotilapia frontosa Tang Frontosa 1
        Hap. Gracilis haplicromis Peacock Wannabe 1
        Aulonocara stuartgranti (Usisya) Peacock Flavescent Peacock 1
        Copadichromis azureus haplicromis Haplochromis chrysonotus 1
        Sciaenochromis fryeri (Chiofu Bay) haplicromis Hap Ahli, Electric Blue 1
        Estecius? <sp> 1
         
        So - I vote for water changes and pretty frequently at that.....
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7991 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Poll - Water changes and how often
        In our three 55 gallon tanks we do bi-weekly water changes of about 30-40%
        -varies sometimes I'll do weekly water changes if I am trying to get the bristlenose to spawn
         
        30 gallon( grow out tank 20-30% every 3-4 weeks as fish grow water changes will get more often.
         
        In the two 20 gallon tanks we 20-30% every two weeks
         
        10 gallon tanks receive 20% water changes every week
         
        5 gallon tanks get 10%  water changes every  weeks..
         
        I spend between 30 minutes and an hour Every Saturday doing water changes..
        Got to love Multiple Pyhtons.......
         
        rob
        NE Indiana
        USA
         
         
         
        In a message dated 1/20/2005 11:49:14 P.M. Central Standard Time, alglea@... writes:
        My addition to the poll:
         
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7992 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 1/20/2005
        Subject: Re: Poll - Water changes and how often
        I have all FW tanks: 30, 29, 20 long, 2 10s and a 6. I change 10-20% weekly.
        My fish are active, healthy, growing, breeding and have excellent color. It
        works for me and my fish.


        Theresa



        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "ranginute" <rw9673@...>
        >
        > I have had a very fun time reading all of the debate on water
        > changes. I would be willing to go either way on the argument, I
        > guess I am a ambi-changer. I have had tanks that have gone six
        > months without a water change and I did not see adverse effects on
        > the fish, (community tanks - Display).
        >
        > On the other hand, if you are trying to condition fish for breeding
        > or you want the most colorful and vibrant fish, you have to do
        > occasional water changes. But to be honest, I have never done 25%
        > weekly water changes and I have bred Oscars, Angel Fish, Convicts,
        > white clouds (yeah, I know, they would breed in a teaspoon of hot
        > water), and Cory cats, although the cats did not reach maturity.
        >
        > Let me be the first entry into the poll...I do water changes, but
        > more on a monthly basis and not weekly.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7993 From: Steve Date: 1/21/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
        I've never heard that nitrates were poisonous to the nitrobacter and
        nitrosomma bacteria that take care of the ammonia and nitrites for us. It is
        true, however that a high level of nitrates can cause a problem to at least
        some species of fish. Live plants help control nitrate as well as regular
        water changes. Can you point us to the source of the information that high
        nitrates are poisonous to other bacteria?

        \\Steve//

        -----Original Message-----
        From: dreammaker2623 [mailto:dreammaker2623@...]
        Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 12:31 AM
        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing




        I am just a regulat tropicla fish aquarist that like to have their
        fish breed for them and have the fish grow to their fullest sizes
        and best colors. I have seen small ponds that have stunted sunfihs
        in them because there are too many fish in a too small volum of
        water. The fish give off growth inhibiting chemicles that will cause
        the population to not be able to grow to their potential size. In a
        cycled tank the bacteria turn ammonia to nitrite and then to
        nitrate. This nitrate is poisionus to the bacteria and in the long
        run can cause a die off of fish because of ammonia poisioning. If
        you have a planted tank then it will take longer for this to happen
        but it will in time. I have taken 5 gold fish and put them in a 10
        gallon tank and had another tank that held 20 gallons of water and
        also put 5 glos fish in it. I would do regulsr 25% weekly water
        changes to the smaller tank but none to the larger tank. The fish in
        the smaller tank grew faster (after a while). I gave them the same
        ammount of food and the temp was the same and there was filtration
        in both. The fish in the 20 gallon tank stop[p[ed growing at about 3
        & 1/2 inches but the fish in the 10 galon tank were still growing
        after a year and had reached about 5 & 1/2 inches when I put them in
        a pond. That is enough evidence for me to believe that water changes
        are required for a serious aquarist.







        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick, The
        American Fish Guy" <americanfishguy@h...> wrote:
        > Here we go again! :)
        >
        > I really like the lake analogy, although a fishing pond on a
        farm would
        > be even better. These ponds are more like tanks. But in place of
        water
        > changes, they are only topped off with rain water. That is like
        topping off
        > a fish tank with R/O water. Even one that is not stocked with
        huge numbers
        > of fish usually has a good number of large food fish. Anything
        that goes
        > into such a pond would never leave unless it spilled out in a flood
        > (occasional water change of a small amount).
        > But at the same time, weekly water changes of any amount up to
        about 80%
        > won't hurt. In the Amazon, the water is constantly being changed
        slowly by
        > rain. The bacteria live in the gravel and filter and only require
        a minimum
        > amount of ammonia not detected on any of the common home ammonia
        tests to
        > continue living. That ammonia is supplied by the fish constantly,
        so as
        > soon as the water change is over the ammonia supply is back.
        > In reality, both sides are living in the land of theory. No
        matter how
        > many tanks we have kept with our preferred method, we will have
        never done
        > more than kept tanks under different circumstances. The only way
        to know
        > for sure is to do tests using the proper scientific methods using
        100 tanks
        > for each method, each containing the same fish species (say three
        of the
        > more hardy Cichlids and a small pleco species, all at 2 inches)
        and plants.
        > It would be best to use a 30 or 50 gallon tank some kind of hardy
        fish that
        > grows at a rate that they should be able to study their growth
        over a year.
        > Every month they should be measured. At the end of the year,
        measure the
        > average length of the fish. Don't count the fact that some die,
        that should
        > be a random event that will average out through the 200 tanks. It
        is the
        > total length of all fish that is important. By finding out if
        there is a
        > difference in the total length of all fish, we would know for
        certain if
        > there is any harm being done by either method. Now we just need a
        research
        > grant...
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7994 From: Angela Date: 1/21/2005
        Subject: Ich recovery
        I'm pretty sure the ich is gone. Some of the fish have air bubbles,
        but they're the ones who swim up near the filter dumping area. My
        nitrites have been high, I guess from the lack of a carbon filter?
        Anyway, we've lost two seemingly healthy fish and a couple of others
        have reddish areas on their sides. I've changed 4 out of 20 gallons
        of water this morning, added aquarium salt, stress coat,
        dechlorinator and phdown (my water has a high ph). Is there
        anything else I need to do?
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7995 From: Tim Fairchild Date: 1/21/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish dieing
        On Friday 21 Jan 2005 12:52, paul helms wrote:
        > anything to keep it going huh?
        > and just so you know...water quality is vastly
        > different today than 20 years ago...in fact vastly
        > differnent form 5 years ago

        You're being argumentative. I don't have a problem with few to no water
        changes. I did it for years. It can work, tho eventually you may build up
        toxins. Likewise I don't see a problem with larger more frequent water
        changes, especially with newer aquariums and high bioloads. I just don't see
        the point of suggesting that someone is killing their fish with water changes
        unless there is a reason for this, like high nitrites in the water supply or
        whatever...

        As for water quality, that's a matter for debate. In some cases and areas it's
        likely to be better these days than it was. In some areas worse. It hasn't
        changed much here, tho we tend to be using different sources due to the 4
        year drought...

        tim

        --
        ---------------------------------------------------------
        Tim & Therese Fairchild
        Atchafalaya Border Collies.
        Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia.
        ---------------------------------------------------------
        Email mailto:tim@...
        Homepage http://www.bcs4me.com
        Photos http://www.pbase.com/amosf
        ---------------------------------------------------------
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7996 From: ranginute Date: 1/21/2005
        Subject: Poll results - Water Changes
        Okay, I know this is not a scientific survery, but here are the
        results I have so far on the water change Poll:

        Synopsis: The average person on this board does 10% water changes bi-
        weekly and owns three tanks.

        On average, the seven responding people change their water every 2.15
        weeks. Based on the messages, there are 22 tanks being reported
        on...which by the way is just over three tanks per.

        Not all responded, but the average water change amount in this 2.15
        week average is 14%.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7997 From: Audrey Archer Date: 1/21/2005
        Subject: Re: Fish dieing
        Robb, I understand - my dwarf gouramis diedin my tank, after it was established. I have heard that they are prone to diseases. The male will also sometimes kill undesired females - I found one bleedng and slowly dieing on the bottom (I believe she was attacked because she didn't want to spawn.) One succumbed to either bloat or being eggbound. The last female died after spawning. After the eggs hatched, the male eventually ate all the spawn but one, then he died too. Finally, the sole surviving female fry died as well - had sores on her body. The golden white clouds in that tank are still all alive and doing well. Try another type of fish?

        Also, you are probably changing too much water at a time. If you are doing it every week, try between 10 and 15%. And maek sure it is the same temp and pH as the existing water in your tank, so you don't stress them. These are tips I found here and on other sites, that worked for me.

        Audrey


        > Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:25:48 -0700
        >From: "Robb Rouse" <robbrouse@...>
        >Subject: Fish dieing

        >I have 3 tanks. a 20 Gallon, a 10 Gallon and a 55 gallon. I'm have probelems with the 55
        >gallon and I can't for the life of me figure out whats going on. I sat the tank up on
        >September 5th and I did a fishless cycel. Well after all my spikes and what not I added 4
        >Dwarf Gouami (3 Femails and 1 Male). Then on November 6th I added 4 Panda Cory's and a Candy
        >Stripe Pleco.
        >
        >Well Everyhing seemed find and dandy for a while on november 25th the the Pleco got trapped and
        >died. So I did a water change check levels and all were fine. Then pn December 31st I lost on
        >of the Dwarf Gouami, then on January 17th I lost the Male Dwarf Gouami, then today I lost
        >another female Dwarf Gouami.
        >
        >I do 25% water changes ever 7 to 10 days most of the time weekly. I'm having no problems with
        >my other 2 tanks. I understand why the Pleco died, but I've lost 3 of my 4 Dwarf Gouami and
        >have no idea why. Any input would be great. The 4 Panda Corrys in the tank are getting bigger
        >and seem to be doing fine.
        >
        >Robb
        >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7998 From: Tri mac Date: 1/21/2005
        Subject: Hello there
        May I ask what that yellow eel-grouper-goby fish is in the picture
        above on the home page of this site is??? That is amazing!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 7999 From: Steve Date: 1/21/2005
        Subject: Games, Games, Games
        Monterey Bay Aquarium: Activities and Games
        http://www.mbayaq.org/lc/activities.asp

        >From the Monterey Bay Aquarium, this website presents an assortment of fun,
        educational activities featuring different marine animals and plants. Some
        of the choices on the website are online activities, others are Print & Do
        activities, and the remaining activities provide both options. Examples of
        the Print & Do activities are coloring pages of different marine animals
        like penguins and jellies; instructions for an otter lunch bag puppet; a
        kelp forest-themed crossword puzzle, and instructions for making a penguin
        headband. Examples of online activities include: an interactive Make a
        Tidepool Game; a Shark Spotting Guide; a Deep Sea Memory Game, and an
        Explore the Kelp Forest interactive feature. Several of the activities are
        available in both Spanish and English.

        >From The NSDL Scout Report for the Life Sciences, Copyright Internet Scout
        Project 1994-2005. http://scout.wisc.edu/


        \\Steve//

        Note: This post may contain misspellings, grammatical errors, disorganized
        sentence structure, or may entirely lack a coherent theme. These elements
        are natural to the process of writing, and will only add to the overall
        beauty of the post.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8000 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 1/21/2005
        Subject: San Francisco Aquarium Society (SFAS), 2/4/2005, 7:30 pm
        Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
        San Francisco Aquarium Society (SFAS)

        Friday February 4, 2005
        7:30 pm - 9:30 pm
        This event repeats on the first Friday of every month.
        The next reminder for this event will be sent in 9 days, 4 minutes.

        Event Location: first Friday of each month at San Francisco State University
        Notes:
        http://www.sfaquarium.org/index.html

        We meet the first Friday of each month at The San Francisco State University.

        Founded in 1923, the San Francisco Aquarium Society is regarded as one of the nation's esteemed aquarium hobbyist organizations.

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        Privacy Policy - Terms of Service
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8001 From: antonios75@yahoo.com Date: 1/22/2005
        Subject: ReefGossip.com is looking for moderators. All moderators will be PA
        Reefgossip.com is looking for moderators, once the web site starts
        producing a profit through advertising 15% of all profits will be
        paid to the moderators of the site. These are the people that make
        the web site possible
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8002 From: Angela Date: 1/22/2005
        Subject: I need help
        I'm about ready to give up. We got a 20 gallon aquarium for
        Christmas. We've slowly added fish to cycle the tank. Everything
        went so well until 2 weeks and 2 days after we added fish. I
        changed 4 gallons of water and forgot the dechlorinator. We lost 2
        zebra danios right away, but after adding the dechlorinator, the
        rest survived. Two days later, I noticed white spots on the two
        black skirt tetras. The fish store owner looked at one of them and
        said it was Ich. I added Quick Cure for 5 days and removed the
        carbon filter and raised the water temperature to around 82
        degrees. The larger black skirt has developed two large red spots
        on his side and the white spots didn't go away completely. The cory
        catfish started acting very slow and lethargic. The fish store told
        me to use stress coat, so I did. My nitrites began to rise, but I
        waited a day or two to change water because the fish were so
        stressed. I lost a serpae tetra and lemon tetra. Yesterday
        morning, I changed 4 gallons of water, added dechlorinator, stess
        coat, and aquarium salt as well as ph down, since my water ph is a
        little high. This morning, I've lost the smaller black skirt and a
        cory catfish. The buenos aires tetra is missing a significant
        portion of the tail and has faded color. The other cory is very
        slow. The three zebra danios look fine and the frog does, too.

        Please tell me what to do. I'm almost ready to give up. Is this a
        highly unusual case, or is it expected during the cycling? Could
        the white spots be water bubbles, since the only fish who had them
        spend a lot of time up around the filter?

        Please help. I appreciate any advice you have. At this point I
        feel horrible that these beautiful fish have died and I don't know
        what to do.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8003 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 1/22/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I need help
         
        Is this a
        highly unusual case, or is it expected during the cycling? 
        YES you can expect to lose a few during your first months..
        best to buy cheap fish to begin with too..
        at times you lose them all..
        at least that is what happened to me until my aquarium
        got established.. now I rearely lose one .. except to old age..
         Linda M.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8004 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/22/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I need help
        What about the tail and fin detereoration?  I feel like a mass murderer.  Will the tail grow back?
         
        Thanks so much for such a quick result.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
         
        Is this a
        highly unusual case, or is it expected during the cycling? 
         
        YES you can expect to lose a few during your first months..
        best to buy cheap fish to begin with too..
        at times you lose them all..
        at least that is what happened to me until my aquarium
        got established.. now I rearely lose one .. except to old age..
         Linda M.


        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8005 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/22/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I need help
        OK - my advice to you...
         
        1)  Don't give up - you are going through the "start-up blues".
         
        2)  Ok - the regular cycling isn't going so well - it's not uncommon to lose fish to it.  Chalk the dechlorination thing up to a bad experience - sh*t happens sometimes - we've all done similar things.
         
        3)  You may have had too many fish to cycle with....usually for a 20 gallon you would cycle with maybe 3 fish (using the natural cycle).
         
        4)  Ok - not everyone will agree with this - but it works and works WELL for me.  Use either bio-spira or a product by Seachem called Stability.    It lets you go from new water to full stocking right away (bio-spira does an instant cycle - Stability does it over a week).  I've recently just set up two tanks (a 10 gal and a 100-gal) using these products (bio-spira on the 100 - stability on the 10)  - zero losses on the 100 and one loss of a tetra after 1 day in the 10 (bad fish - not a water issue).  Both tanks have been up close to 3 months.  If the losses and problems are causing you stress - give it a try.   Regardless of the flak from others about these products - I can testify it worked for me - what do you have to lose?   TRY IT!
         
        Al
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8006 From: paul helms Date: 1/22/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I need help
        all you have to lose is $. for the other perspective,
        all of my clients who have used these products have
        had devastation in the tanks within 6 months. you
        quite simply can't have your biologic filter running 1
        or even 7 days. it takes 3 weeks for the bacteria to
        attach to and populate the porous materials in which
        it lives. yes these products jump start the process,
        but they do not give it the same rsesults as cycling
        4-6 weeks. most people who use these products do
        water changes weekly, or bi weekly, so they have no
        real basis to say if it worked or not. while the
        topic of water changes is a highly debated issue among
        aquarists, a tank imho is not cycled unless it is
        funtioning as a mini ecosystem that can take care of
        itself for the most part, only requiring 5-10% water
        changes monthly.
        paul
        --- alglea@... wrote:

        > OK - my advice to you...
        >
        > 1) Don't give up - you are going through the
        > "start-up blues".
        >
        > 2) Ok - the regular cycling isn't going so well -
        > it's not uncommon to lose
        > fish to it. Chalk the dechlorination thing up to a
        > bad experience - sh*t
        > happens sometimes - we've all done similar things.
        >
        > 3) You may have had too many fish to cycle
        > with....usually for a 20 gallon
        > you would cycle with maybe 3 fish (using the natural
        > cycle).
        >
        > 4) Ok - not everyone will agree with this - but it
        > works and works WELL for
        > me. Use either bio-spira or a product by Seachem
        > called Stability. It
        > lets you go from new water to full stocking right
        > away (bio-spira does an
        > instant cycle - Stability does it over a week).
        > I've recently just set up two
        > tanks (a 10 gal and a 100-gal) using these products
        > (bio-spira on the 100 -
        > stability on the 10) - zero losses on the 100 and
        > one loss of a tetra after 1
        > day in the 10 (bad fish - not a water issue). Both
        > tanks have been up close to
        > 3 months. If the losses and problems are causing
        > you stress - give it a
        > try. Regardless of the flak from others about
        > these products - I can testify
        > it worked for me - what do you have to lose? TRY
        > IT!
        >
        > Al
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8007 From: paul helms Date: 1/22/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I need help
        well you are in the middle of your spike, which is
        where large amounts of ammonia are being released by
        the reproducing bacteria in the tank. they will in
        turn consume this ammonia leaving nitrite behind as a
        bi product, which will spike again as nitrate. that
        is the cycle that you have been waiting for. the
        general idea when do the cycle with fish is to have 1
        for every 5 gallons or so, to add enough ammonia and
        bacteria to get the cycle going. you have too many
        fish right now. by changing that much water during
        the cycle, you will cause too much change too fast and
        shock the fish. let me exoplain so the avid water
        changers don't get upset. in this case, you had high
        ammonia levels. when you changed a large amount of
        water (20%) it drastically reduces the ammonia in the
        tank, like changing your oxygen mixture. this causes
        a lot of stress on the fish because it is so rapid,
        even though it is a helpful change. much like a person
        rising to fast in the ocean gets the bends (sp). in
        addition, without dechlorinator. also the temp and ph
        were probably not the same. now, being stressed
        causes the slime coat on the fish to thin, this is the
        same as their immune system failing. when it is thin,
        parasites like ick (white spots) can attach to the
        fishes body, causing more stress. since the cycle was
        interrupted by the large change, free floating
        benneficial bacteria was removed, and in their
        stressed condition the fish are now succeptable to
        bacterial infections, suh as skin ulcers (red spots).
        this does not mean that you need to quit or to start
        over. put a frsh filter pad in the fileter,keep the
        temp at 83-85, and start adding stress zyme if you
        can. it is completely non-harful. it is like a
        combination of stress coat and food for the
        benneficial bacteria. most places say it is live
        bacteria, but it is an enzyme that stimulates their
        growth with no ill side effects. it will help with
        their slime coat and to get your bacteria established.
        this is what i use to cycle (no fish) the package
        says to dose the 1st,7th, and 14th days, but with your
        situation i woud dose every other day for 2 weeks.
        that is 2 tspoons every 2 days
        paul
        --- Angela <angelasjenkins@...> wrote:

        >
        > I'm about ready to give up. We got a 20 gallon
        > aquarium for
        > Christmas. We've slowly added fish to cycle the
        > tank. Everything
        > went so well until 2 weeks and 2 days after we added
        > fish. I
        > changed 4 gallons of water and forgot the
        > dechlorinator. We lost 2
        > zebra danios right away, but after adding the
        > dechlorinator, the
        > rest survived. Two days later, I noticed white
        > spots on the two
        > black skirt tetras. The fish store owner looked at
        > one of them and
        > said it was Ich. I added Quick Cure for 5 days and
        > removed the
        > carbon filter and raised the water temperature to
        > around 82
        > degrees. The larger black skirt has developed two
        > large red spots
        > on his side and the white spots didn't go away
        > completely. The cory
        > catfish started acting very slow and lethargic. The
        > fish store told
        > me to use stress coat, so I did. My nitrites began
        > to rise, but I
        > waited a day or two to change water because the fish
        > were so
        > stressed. I lost a serpae tetra and lemon tetra.
        > Yesterday
        > morning, I changed 4 gallons of water, added
        > dechlorinator, stess
        > coat, and aquarium salt as well as ph down, since my
        > water ph is a
        > little high. This morning, I've lost the smaller
        > black skirt and a
        > cory catfish. The buenos aires tetra is missing a
        > significant
        > portion of the tail and has faded color. The other
        > cory is very
        > slow. The three zebra danios look fine and the frog
        > does, too.
        >
        > Please tell me what to do. I'm almost ready to give
        > up. Is this a
        > highly unusual case, or is it expected during the
        > cycling? Could
        > the white spots be water bubbles, since the only
        > fish who had them
        > spend a lot of time up around the filter?
        >
        > Please help. I appreciate any advice you have. At
        > this point I
        > feel horrible that these beautiful fish have died
        > and I don't know
        > what to do.
        >
        >
        >
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8008 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/22/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I need help
        I took the worst two fish, a black skirt and buenos aires tetra, to the fish store this morning.  The guy tested my water.  Ph and ammonia were great, but the nitrites were extremely high.  He kept the two fish in his tank.  Since it's established, he said they'd be able to recover there, if they can.  He advised that I had about 3 - 4 more weeks to finish the cycle, if that much.  So, in that time, I'll not add fish.  At this point, we have three zebra danios, one cory and a frog.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
        all you have to lose is $.  for the other perspective,
        all of my clients who have used these products have
        had devastation in the tanks within 6 months.  you
        quite simply can't have your biologic filter running 1
        or even 7 days.  it takes 3 weeks for the bacteria to
        attach to and populate the porous materials in which
        it lives.  yes these products jump start the process,
        but they do not give it the same rsesults as cycling
        4-6 weeks.  most people who use these products do
        water changes weekly, or bi weekly, so they have no
        real basis to say if it worked or not.  while the
        topic of water changes is a highly debated issue among
        aquarists, a tank imho is not cycled unless it is
        funtioning as a mini ecosystem that can take care of
        itself for the most part, only requiring 5-10% water
        changes monthly.
        paul
        --- alglea@... wrote:

        > OK - my advice to you...

        > 1)  Don't give up - you are going through the
        > "start-up blues".

        > 2)  Ok - the regular cycling isn't going so well -
        > it's not uncommon  to lose
        > fish to it.  Chalk the dechlorination thing up to a
        > bad experience  - sh*t
        > happens sometimes - we've all done similar things.

        > 3)  You may have had too many fish to cycle
        > with....usually for a 20  gallon
        > you would cycle with maybe 3 fish (using the natural
        > cycle).

        > 4)  Ok - not everyone will agree with this - but it
        > works and works  WELL for
        > me.  Use either bio-spira or a product by Seachem
        > called  Stability.    It
        > lets you go from new water to full stocking  right
        > away (bio-spira does an
        > instant cycle - Stability does it over a  week).
        > I've recently just set up two
        > tanks (a 10 gal and a 100-gal) using  these products
        > (bio-spira on the 100 -
        > stability on the 10)  - zero losses  on the 100 and
        > one loss of a tetra after 1
        > day in the 10 (bad fish - not a water  issue).  Both
        > tanks have been up close to
        > 3 months.  If the losses and  problems are causing
        > you stress - give it a
        > try.   Regardless of the  flak from others about
        > these products - I can testify
        > it worked for me -  what do you have to lose?   TRY
        > IT!

        > Al
        >



                   
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        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8009 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/22/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I need help
        I guess the only way to know for sure would be to scientifically analyze the bio-wheel, gravel, etc of a tank cycled via bio-spira or similar product - vs the same components from a tank cycled naturally.  I've done both methods - I lost fish doing a "natural" cycle - haven't lost any using the chemical cycling.   Maybe I'm the exception that proves the rule - but my local fish store used stability to set up their store tanks - worked for them.  Until I have problems - I'll say it works.  But...just to spark the debate - why would it take 6 months to have problems?  That doesn't seem logical - if the products don't work - wouldn't the "natural" cycling process occur in 6 weeks?   I would expect the problems to occur in that period of time - not six months afterwards - when a tank should be pretty stable - regardless of the cycling method used?
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8010 From: paul helms Date: 1/22/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I need help
        it takes time for everything to catch upo...i am not
        saying that the product is bad, just that it is no as
        fast as claimed. it can take time for everything to
        crash because the water changes being done delay it.
        again..this is just my exoerience and what has been
        reported back to me
        --- alglea@... wrote:

        > I guess the only way to know for sure would be to
        > scientifically analyze the
        > bio-wheel, gravel, etc of a tank cycled via
        > bio-spira or similar product -
        > vs the same components from a tank cycled naturally.
        > I've done both methods -
        > I lost fish doing a "natural" cycle - haven't lost
        > any using the chemical
        > cycling. Maybe I'm the exception that proves the
        > rule - but my local fish
        > store used stability to set up their store tanks -
        > worked for them. Until I
        > have problems - I'll say it works. But...just to
        > spark the debate - why would
        > it take 6 months to have problems? That doesn't
        > seem logical - if the
        > products don't work - wouldn't the "natural"
        > cycling process occur in 6 weeks? I
        > would expect the problems to occur in that period
        > of time - not six months
        > afterwards - when a tank should be pretty stable -
        > regardless of the cycling
        > method used?
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8011 From: paul helms Date: 1/22/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I need help
        the high nitrate is teh converted ammonia...all part
        of total ammonia
        --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

        > I took the worst two fish, a black skirt and buenos
        > aires tetra, to the fish store this morning. The
        > guy tested my water. Ph and ammonia were great, but
        > the nitrites were extremely high. He kept the two
        > fish in his tank. Since it's established, he said
        > they'd be able to recover there, if they can. He
        > advised that I had about 3 - 4 more weeks to finish
        > the cycle, if that much. So, in that time, I'll not
        > add fish. At this point, we have three zebra
        > danios, one cory and a frog.
        >
        > -------------- Original message --------------
        > all you have to lose is $. for the other
        > perspective,
        > all of my clients who have used these products have
        > had devastation in the tanks within 6 months. you
        > quite simply can't have your biologic filter running
        > 1
        > or even 7 days. it takes 3 weeks for the bacteria
        > to
        > attach to and populate the porous materials in which
        > it lives. yes these products jump start the
        > process,
        > but they do not give it the same rsesults as cycling
        > 4-6 weeks. most people who use these products do
        > water changes weekly, or bi weekly, so they have no
        > real basis to say if it worked or not. while the
        > topic of water changes is a highly debated issue
        > among
        > aquarists, a tank imho is not cycled unless it is
        > funtioning as a mini ecosystem that can take care of
        > itself for the most part, only requiring 5-10% water
        > changes monthly.
        > paul
        > --- alglea@... wrote:
        >
        > > OK - my advice to you...
        > >
        > > 1) Don't give up - you are going through the
        > > "start-up blues".
        > >
        > > 2) Ok - the regular cycling isn't going so well -
        > > it's not uncommon to lose
        > > fish to it. Chalk the dechlorination thing up to
        > a
        > > bad experience - sh*t
        > > happens sometimes - we've all done similar things.
        > >
        > > 3) You may have had too many fish to cycle
        > > with....usually for a 20 gallon
        > > you would cycle with maybe 3 fish (using the
        > natural
        > > cycle).
        > >
        > > 4) Ok - not everyone will agree with this - but
        > it
        > > works and works WELL for
        > > me. Use either bio-spira or a product by Seachem
        > > called Stability. It
        > > lets you go from new water to full stocking right
        > > away (bio-spira does an
        > > instant cycle - Stability does it over a week).
        > > I've recently just set up two
        > > tanks (a 10 gal and a 100-gal) using these
        > products
        > > (bio-spira on the 100 -
        > > stability on the 10) - zero losses on the 100
        > and
        > > one loss of a tetra after 1
        > > day in the 10 (bad fish - not a water issue).
        > Both
        > > tanks have been up close to
        > > 3 months. If the losses and problems are causing
        > > you stress - give it a
        > > try. Regardless of the flak from others about
        > > these products - I can testify
        > > it worked for me - what do you have to lose?
        > TRY
        > > IT!
        > >
        > > Al
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
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        > replying, thanks
        >
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        >
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8012 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/23/2005
        Subject: Re: Fading colors on my fish.
        I went down to my local fish shop and showed the guy the dead fish (two
        now) he said that they had a swallen stomoc due to bacterial infection.
        Probably explains why the other tiger barbs havn't died yet.

        Do i just keep changing the water till the nitrites go to zero ie
        possibly as much as 90% total over the next week?


        PS: My guppies are breeding :) and there are a couple of tiny baby
        fish which keep getting stuck in my filter.


        > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 05:36:26 -0000
        > From: "Ray Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...>
        > Subject: Re: Fading colors on my fish.
        > Nick, Its very possible that the color loss is due to the high
        > nitrites. High nitrites can put much stress on the fish. You should

        > not have put any fish in the tank that you intended to keep, while
        > the tank is cycling. At three weeks you should be at peak or a
        > little past on the nitrite spike, so the worst should be over. Never

        > the less, for now you can't keep that much nitrites in the water and

        > expect the fish to do well. Start making water changes (at least 25%

        > as frequently as needed) to physically get rid of those nitrites
        > until the bacteria can catch up with it and keep it under control.
        > If the scales are starting to stand out from the fish's bodies, that

        > could be the beginning of a condition/disease called Dropsey. High
        > nitrites can cause enough stress for the fish to get such
        > conditions/diseases, as Dropsey and/or kidney damage/failure, among
        > other things. Keep an eye on those fish after water changing. Ray

        > \--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas
        > Munro" <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
        > > Gidday,
        > > I noticed last night that my tiger barbs are loosing the color
        > > definitions in there stripes, i mean instead of black stripes
        there
        > > turning grey. My tanks still cycling (3 weeks old) and i have
        high
        > > nitrites. Also the scales look a little funny as well. The
        tiger
        > > barbs seem to be hiding more too.
        > > Is this because of the nitrite problem or should i show it to my
        > > local fish pet shop?
        > > =Nick
        > > 300 litre tank, 7 tiger barbs, 1 bristle nose, 1 silver shark and
        > > probably 20 guppies (won't keep still when i try to count them).
        > >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8013 From: paul helms Date: 1/23/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Fading colors on my fish.
        no....large water changes will shock the fish when the
        water is bad. too much change too fast is bad
        --- Nicolas Munro <nicolas.munro@...>
        wrote:

        > I went down to my local fish shop and showed the guy
        > the dead fish (two
        > now) he said that they had a swallen stomoc due to
        > bacterial infection.
        > Probably explains why the other tiger barbs havn't
        > died yet.
        >
        > Do i just keep changing the water till the nitrites
        > go to zero ie
        > possibly as much as 90% total over the next week?
        >
        >
        > PS: My guppies are breeding :) and there are a
        > couple of tiny baby
        > fish which keep getting stuck in my filter.
        >
        >
        > > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 05:36:26 -0000
        > > From: "Ray Wetzel"
        > <sevenspringss@...>
        > > Subject: Re: Fading colors on my fish.
        > > Nick, Its very possible that the color loss is
        > due to the high
        > > nitrites. High nitrites can put much stress on
        > the fish. You should
        >
        > > not have put any fish in the tank that you
        > intended to keep, while
        > > the tank is cycling. At three weeks you should be
        > at peak or a
        > > little past on the nitrite spike, so the worst
        > should be over. Never
        >
        > > the less, for now you can't keep that much
        > nitrites in the water and
        >
        > > expect the fish to do well. Start making water
        > changes (at least 25%
        >
        > > as frequently as needed) to physically get rid of
        > those nitrites
        > > until the bacteria can catch up with it and keep
        > it under control.
        > > If the scales are starting to stand out from the
        > fish's bodies, that
        >
        > > could be the beginning of a condition/disease
        > called Dropsey. High
        > > nitrites can cause enough stress for the fish to
        > get such
        > > conditions/diseases, as Dropsey and/or kidney
        > damage/failure, among
        > > other things. Keep an eye on those fish after
        > water changing. Ray
        >
        > > \--- In
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
        > "Nicolas
        > > Munro" <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
        > > > Gidday,
        > > > I noticed last night that my tiger barbs are
        > loosing the color
        > > > definitions in there stripes, i mean instead of
        > black stripes
        > there
        > > > turning grey. My tanks still cycling (3 weeks
        > old) and i have
        > high
        > > > nitrites. Also the scales look a little funny
        > as well. The
        > tiger
        > > > barbs seem to be hiding more too.
        > > > Is this because of the nitrite problem or should
        > i show it to my
        > > > local fish pet shop?
        > > > =Nick
        > > > 300 litre tank, 7 tiger barbs, 1 bristle nose, 1
        > silver shark and
        > > > probably 20 guppies (won't keep still when i try
        > to count them).
        > > >
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8014 From: Anne Date: 1/23/2005
        Subject: Angela
        "Please help. I appreciate any advice you have. At
        this point I feel horrible that these beautiful fish
        have died and I don't know what to do."

        I don't have any advice Angela. I'll be reading the
        replies to your email carefully. I just wanted to let
        you know I'm pretty much in the same place as you.
        Ready to throw in the towel:-) Admit my defeat. My
        amonnia has gotten really high. The aquarium guy told
        me no fish could survive in my water. Yet, my black
        molly is doing good. She's been with me for 5 weeks
        and I'm thinking she's no ordinary molly. Anyway,
        I've done water changes, vacumning, and I've been
        adding a yeast like powder daily (on recommendation of
        the fish store) but, 5 days into it, the amonnia still
        tests high. The ph is good. So far I've lost two
        cories and 2 platys. I feel like I'm running a fish
        mortuary.
        Anne



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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8015 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/23/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angela
        Hey Anne,
         
        I had high ammonia and long term problems with it when I set up my first tank - cycled it with fish.  My ammonia stayed high for over a month.   If it builds slowly - some fish can tolerate it for awhile at high levels - but not sure effect it will have long term.   You may want to look at Ammo-Lock or Amquel + as a method to minimize impact of the ammonia.   Another idea - and one that is controversial on this board - would be to try a product like Stability from SeaChem - especially if you have problems.   It's bacteria - you add a starter dose to your tank - then continue to add smaller dose for about a week - will speed up the cycling of the tank.  So..if it was me - I'd do a 25%'ish water change on the tank - make sure I treated my water before replacing it - then run it through a cycle of Stability (or similar product).  At this point - all you have to lose/risk is about $10 for the product.   Based on the posts on this board - people have had mixed results - but it has worked well for me.  I have a 10 gallon with a healthy blue ram (very fragile fish) that was done with stability - water has tested well since I added fish to it.
         
        Hang in there though - the tank I talked about earlier - is now a beautiful, healthy tank - with two awesome angels, an Opaline Gourami (who's a survivor of the ammonia blight), 2 giant Danios (also survivors), 4 swordtails, 2 bleeding heart tetras, 2 red-eye tetras, and 2 CAE's (don't recommend these fish - mine have been ok - but in general they are pain's in the arses).
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8016 From: paul helms Date: 1/23/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angela
        every time a fish dies in there you are adding ammonia
        from them starting to decompse. mollies are extremely
        hardy...that is why it is still alive. personally
        this is why i cycle the tank without fish, but many
        people believe in doing it with fish. it would
        definately be benneficial to add live bacteria, i use
        a product called stress zyme every other day... 1
        teaspoon for every 10 gallons. it works very well.
        during a cycle, you should not be vacuuming and over
        cleaning. when cycling with fish, frequent small
        water changes are required, but at 5 weeks old there
        should be nothing to vacuum at all.
        paul
        --- Anne <md_gustoby@...> wrote:

        > "Please help. I appreciate any advice you have. At
        > this point I feel horrible that these beautiful fish
        > have died and I don't know what to do."
        >
        > I don't have any advice Angela. I'll be reading the
        > replies to your email carefully. I just wanted to
        > let
        > you know I'm pretty much in the same place as you.
        > Ready to throw in the towel:-) Admit my defeat. My
        > amonnia has gotten really high. The aquarium guy
        > told
        > me no fish could survive in my water. Yet, my black
        > molly is doing good. She's been with me for 5 weeks
        > and I'm thinking she's no ordinary molly. Anyway,
        > I've done water changes, vacumning, and I've been
        > adding a yeast like powder daily (on recommendation
        > of
        > the fish store) but, 5 days into it, the amonnia
        > still
        > tests high. The ph is good. So far I've lost two
        > cories and 2 platys. I feel like I'm running a fish
        > mortuary.
        > Anne
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
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        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8017 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 1/23/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich recovery
        In a message dated 1/21/2005 7:07:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, angelasjenkins@... writes:
        I've changed 4 out of 20 gallons
        of water this morning, added aquarium salt, stress coat,
        dechlorinator and phdown (my water has a high ph).  Is there
        anything else I need to do?
        The replies so far have had some good advice. A few things tho:
         
        What is your tap water's typical pH? Are you adjusting the pH and ensuring the pH is correct before adding the new water? pH swings can be really tough on fish and, unless your pH is way out, you're better to not adjust it chemically.
         
        How much salt are you adding? And are you adding it during water changes only or during 'top-ups' too?
         
        What does your tank test at? How about your tap water?
         
        I use Amquel+ only in most of my tanks. My Mollies love salt baths so they get that in their tank, too, as well as my overwintering pond fish (tho nowhere near as much). I have Malaysian driftwood in my softwater tanks.
         
        HTH!
         
        Vicky
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8018 From: Julie Date: 1/23/2005
        Subject: Converting to planted tanks.
        My husband wants to convert our 30 gallon over to a planted tank.  Currently there is a UGF and two power heads and one of those Whisper filters that hang on the back of the tank.  It has regular aquarium gravel in it, some plastic plants and some decorative rocks.  I guess my questions are, what are some good resources for going about this?  I am currently doing a Google search and have only found one place that looks good.  And is this tank going to have to be torn down and rebuilt, and then go through a cycle again?  Its been up for a year now and has an angel, three clown loaches, three minnows (the original cycle fish) and a pair of Bala sharks.  I know the loaches and sharks get big, and we are planning on setting up a 55 or larger later on, when finances are ok for it.  I have two other tanks (a 20 and a 10) to distribute the other fish to for a short time if need be.  They are  stocked, with about 10 guppies in the 10 gallon,  6 guppies, two neon tetras that came with the tank and a molly in the 20 gal.
        julie
        Cheyenne, Wyoming
        I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8019 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/24/2005
        Subject: Re: Fading colors on my fish.
        Looks like your local fish shop guy said about the same thing as I
        did; your fish are getting internal infections due to the stress of
        high nitrites. A 90% water change would of course be too much all at
        once for a tank that hasn't yet completely cycled, but for now, you
        could make 25% water changes every other day-75% over 6 days (instead
        of 90% over a week) as needed until your nitrites start coming down.
        I've done 90% water changes at one time, but this is not recommended
        unless you have adaquate filtration where you have an abundant
        nitrifying bacteria population already built up. You might consider
        adding to your filtering capacity to increase your bacteria, but in
        the meantime, whether you do this or not, the use of additives such
        as Stress-Zyme will help build up your bacteria culture now. As for
        the guppy fry, either remove them to a separate small tank, or cover
        the intake of your filter with a piece of old fish net or nylon
        stocking; watch to see that they don't get sucked up against it. Some
        filters have an adjustable flow control which can be turned to reduce
        the flow. Ray
        \
        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas
        Munro" <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
        > I went down to my local fish shop and showed the guy the dead fish
        (two
        > now) he said that they had a swallen stomoc due to bacterial
        infection.
        > Probably explains why the other tiger barbs havn't died yet.
        >
        > Do i just keep changing the water till the nitrites go to zero ie
        > possibly as much as 90% total over the next week?
        >
        >
        > PS: My guppies are breeding :) and there are a couple of tiny baby
        > fish which keep getting stuck in my filter.
        >
        >
        > > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 05:36:26 -0000
        > > From: "Ray Wetzel" <sevenspringss@w...>
        > > Subject: Re: Fading colors on my fish.
        > > Nick, Its very possible that the color loss is due to the high
        > > nitrites. High nitrites can put much stress on the fish. You
        should
        >
        > > not have put any fish in the tank that you intended to keep,
        while
        > > the tank is cycling. At three weeks you should be at peak or a
        > > little past on the nitrite spike, so the worst should be over.
        Never
        >
        > > the less, for now you can't keep that much nitrites in the water
        and
        >
        > > expect the fish to do well. Start making water changes (at least
        25%
        >
        > > as frequently as needed) to physically get rid of those nitrites
        > > until the bacteria can catch up with it and keep it under
        control.
        > > If the scales are starting to stand out from the fish's bodies,
        that
        >
        > > could be the beginning of a condition/disease called Dropsey.
        High
        > > nitrites can cause enough stress for the fish to get such
        > > conditions/diseases, as Dropsey and/or kidney damage/failure,
        among
        > > other things. Keep an eye on those fish after water changing.
        Ray
        >
        > > \--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas
        > > Munro" <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
        > > > Gidday,
        > > > I noticed last night that my tiger barbs are loosing the color
        > > > definitions in there stripes, i mean instead of black stripes
        > there
        > > > turning grey. My tanks still cycling (3 weeks old) and i have
        > high
        > > > nitrites. Also the scales look a little funny as well. The
        > tiger
        > > > barbs seem to be hiding more too.
        > > > Is this because of the nitrite problem or should i show it to
        my
        > > > local fish pet shop?
        > > > =Nick
        > > > 300 litre tank, 7 tiger barbs, 1 bristle nose, 1 silver shark
        and
        > > > probably 20 guppies (won't keep still when i try to count them).
        > > >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8020 From: paul helms Date: 1/24/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Converting to planted tanks.
        there are a lot of plants that you cn do with the ugf.
        bannana plants and their relatives, amazon swords,
        elodia (anacharis, apogea, dwarf lillies, hornwort,
        java fern, java moss, etc, which all do well in fairly
        low light 9standard lighting)
        --- Julie <jaramey@...> wrote:

        > My husband wants to convert our 30 gallon over to a
        > planted tank. Currently there is a UGF and two
        > power heads and one of those Whisper filters that
        > hang on the back of the tank. It has regular
        > aquarium gravel in it, some plastic plants and some
        > decorative rocks. I guess my questions are, what
        > are some good resources for going about this? I am
        > currently doing a Google search and have only found
        > one place that looks good. And is this tank going
        > to have to be torn down and rebuilt, and then go
        > through a cycle again? Its been up for a year now
        > and has an angel, three clown loaches, three minnows
        > (the original cycle fish) and a pair of Bala sharks.
        > I know the loaches and sharks get big, and we are
        > planning on setting up a 55 or larger later on, when
        > finances are ok for it. I have two other tanks (a
        > 20 and a 10) to distribute the other fish to for a
        > short time if need be. They are stocked, with
        > about 10 guppies in the 10 gallon, 6 guppies, two
        > neon tetras that came with the tank and a molly in
        > the 20 gal.
        > julie
        > Cheyenne, Wyoming
        > I am not a complete idiot. Some parts are missing.




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8021 From: paul helms Date: 1/24/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich recovery
        don't do everything at once...again too much change
        too fast causes more stress than help. that is a lot
        of chemistry to happen all at once. h is not a big
        concern unless it is waaay off like below 6 or abve
        9. hold off from adding acid or buffer until the ich
        is under control.
        paul
        --- seleya8@... wrote:

        >
        > In a message dated 1/21/2005 7:07:47 AM Eastern
        > Standard Time,
        > angelasjenkins@... writes:
        >
        > I've changed 4 out of 20 gallons
        > of water this morning, added aquarium salt, stress
        > coat,
        > dechlorinator and phdown (my water has a high ph).
        > Is there
        > anything else I need to do?
        >
        >
        >
        > The replies so far have had some good advice. A few
        > things tho:
        >
        > What is your tap water's typical pH? Are you
        > adjusting the pH and ensuring
        > the pH is correct before adding the new water? pH
        > swings can be really tough
        > on fish and, unless your pH is way out, you're
        > better to not adjust it
        > chemically.
        >
        > How much salt are you adding? And are you adding it
        > during water changes
        > only or during 'top-ups' too?
        >
        > What does your tank test at? How about your tap
        > water?
        >
        > I use Amquel+ only in most of my tanks. My Mollies
        > love salt baths so they
        > get that in their tank, too, as well as my
        > overwintering pond fish (tho nowhere
        > near as much). I have Malaysian driftwood in my
        > softwater tanks.
        >
        > HTH!
        >
        > Vicky
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8022 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 1/24/2005
        Subject: Re: Converting to planted tanks.
        I recently helped a neighbor plant her tank with offshoots from our
        tanks. She refused to restart her whole tank, so we took the plants,
        wrapped their roots in a good planting medium of laterite,
        vermiculite, sand and soil, and wrapped it with burlap, so that we
        could sink the whole shebang without muddying up the water or having
        to put in a whole substrate. There was a fertilizer pellet in the
        bottom of each "baggie". Then we gently sunk it, moved the gravel
        aside, and then pushed the gravel back over the top of the baggie to
        cover. It has made the bottom of her tank very convoluted with the
        gravel going up over the baggies, where it was once all flat...but
        the plants seem to be doing quite well, and the fish love swimming in
        and around them.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8023 From: Anne Date: 1/24/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angela
        "Hey Anne,

        I had high ammonia and long term problems with it when
        I set up my first tank - cycled it with fish. My
        ammonia stayed high for over a month. .."

        Thanks to all for the advice.The man at the aquarium
        shop gave me BIOXYME to put in the tank each day for 7
        days. Is that similar the Stability? orshould I switch
        to Stability? Also, I have AmQuel+ and used it once
        but was told by same man that it sometimes gave a
        false reading? Now I'm not sure if I should use it
        again. Should I use an Amonnia down along with the
        BIOXYME or after purchasing the Stability?Thanks so
        much
        Anne
        Oh, one more question regarding Betas. I don't use a
        heater in my 5 gal. tank but it's getting pretty cold
        in the mid atlantic states. What's the opinion of to
        use a heater or not with Betas?

        PS The reason he had me do a vacumning is that he
        thought I was overfeeding the fish and needed to get
        rid of any excess food.




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8024 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/24/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich recovery
        My tap water has high ph, so I add the ph down and my tank water tests normal.  Before I started adding ph down, my ph was always up to a dangerous level.  Regarding salt, I just bought the aquarium salt and added according to the package directions during a water change.  I don't add anything to the water I'm topping off with except decholorinator.  My water tests great for ammonia and ph, but the nitrites are quite high right now.  I'm at 3 1/2 weeks with fish.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
        In a message dated 1/21/2005 7:07:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, angelasjenkins@... writes:
        I've changed 4 out of 20 gallons
        of water this morning, added aquarium salt, stress coat,
        dechlorinator and phdown (my water has a high ph).  Is there
        anything else I need to do?
         
        The replies so far have had some good advice. A few things tho:
         
        What is your tap water's typical pH? Are you adjusting the pH and ensuring the pH is correct before adding the new water? pH swings can be really tough on fish and, unless your pH is way out, you're better to not adjust it chemically.
         
        How much salt are you adding? And are you adding it during water changes only or during 'top-ups' too?
         
        What does your tank test at? How about your tap water?
         
        I use Amquel+ only in most of my tanks. My Mollies love salt baths so they get that in their tank, too, as well as my overwintering pond fish (tho nowhere near as much). I have Malaysian driftwood in my softwater tanks.
         
        HTH!
         
        Vicky


        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8025 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/24/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angela
        Anne,
         
        Again - just my thoughts and what's worked for me....
         
        I would caution against using Amquel + and the Bacteria load products together.  Amquel + is a pretty good product - but somehow - through the magic of Disney - it converts Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates into a non-toxic form.  It's a patch though not a fix.   The bacteria you are adding (again, I'm talking from a Stability standpoint - not familiar with the product your LFS gave you - it may be similar) will need the ammonia to feed on - so you probably want to using something like TetraAqua that just removes the chlorine/copper from the water to treat your tank for a month or so while using the bacteria product.   Again, I can only speak to Stability and Bio-Spira as products I've personally used.  Stability is a daily dosage product - for seven days.   If you used it - with levels like you describe - you might want to double the dosage.   When I used it - it made bacteria growth begin with a day on a pristine brand-spanking new bio-wheel.  Within a week it was as gunky looking as the one in my year old tank.  From what I remember from my fish-cycled tanks - it took the bio-wheels on them roughly a month to 1.5 months to look that way.   Not scientific - but it seems to have worked.
         
        BTW - I don't own stock or anything in either product - just sharing what worked for me! (Even though I think I'm starting to sound like a frigging commercial for them)
         
        Good luck!
         
        Al
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8026 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 1/24/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich recovery
        In a message dated 1/24/2005 8:58:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, angelasjenkins@... writes:
        My water tests great for ammonia and ph, but the nitrites are quite high right now.
        What are the exact readings and which test are you using (dipstick or drops)?
         
        What does your tap water test at for these same values?
         
        "Good" ammonia and high nitrites would be expected at the second stage of cycling. I still worry you're using too many chemicals to solve a problem that can better be solved by water changes, maintaining the current lower stocking numbers and time. I didn't use Amquel+ until my mentor highly recommended it (it's all he uses in his 80+ tanks) -- now, I much prefer it to StressCoat and some of the other dechlors.
         
        Good luck!
         
        Vicky
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8027 From: photo_muse Date: 1/24/2005
        Subject: Cory Cat Questions
        Hi all!

        This past Friday I purchased 4 peppered cory cats(corydoras paleatus)
        to join a plecostomus and an upside down catfish in my 55 gallon
        aquarium. Other fish in the tank are a bunch of mollies, 9 danios,
        and two female swordtails.

        The next day, one of the cory cats wasn't moving much and when it
        did, it seemed to be having a hard time keeping upright. Sunday
        morning it was dead and another of the cories was swimming the same
        way. I put it in a little floating container for keeping baby fish
        separate from the bigger fish, in an attempt to at least get it near
        food, but by Sunday evening, it was deceased.

        This morning, a third cory has slowed down and I fear that it will
        die, too.

        I have been feeding (thawed) frozen brine shrimp the past three days,
        because that is what they said they were feeding them in store. I
        also drop in shrimp pellets and algae wafers at night for the pleco
        and upside down catfish. My water tests all come out normal.

        Does anybody have any advice on keeping cory cats alive and also on
        why they might be dying? (I hate to go get replacement fish, when
        it's possible that they are dying because of a problem in the tank!)

        Thanks!

        Peggy :)
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8028 From: eric douglas Date: 1/24/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory Cat Questions
        Has the same problem with my fish also. But I bought 2
        more and they lived. Temperature change from their old
        water was the problem. Also before buying the new fish
        I did a water change and it also seemed to help. They
        have been alive for 1 year now.



        --- photo_muse <photo_muse@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > Hi all!
        >
        > This past Friday I purchased 4 peppered cory
        > cats(corydoras paleatus)
        > to join a plecostomus and an upside down catfish in
        > my 55 gallon
        > aquarium. Other fish in the tank are a bunch of
        > mollies, 9 danios,
        > and two female swordtails.
        >
        > The next day, one of the cory cats wasn't moving
        > much and when it
        > did, it seemed to be having a hard time keeping
        > upright. Sunday
        > morning it was dead and another of the cories was
        > swimming the same
        > way. I put it in a little floating container for
        > keeping baby fish
        > separate from the bigger fish, in an attempt to at
        > least get it near
        > food, but by Sunday evening, it was deceased.
        >
        > This morning, a third cory has slowed down and I
        > fear that it will
        > die, too.
        >
        > I have been feeding (thawed) frozen brine shrimp the
        > past three days,
        > because that is what they said they were feeding
        > them in store. I
        > also drop in shrimp pellets and algae wafers at
        > night for the pleco
        > and upside down catfish. My water tests all come
        > out normal.
        >
        > Does anybody have any advice on keeping cory cats
        > alive and also on
        > why they might be dying? (I hate to go get
        > replacement fish, when
        > it's possible that they are dying because of a
        > problem in the tank!)
        >
        > Thanks!
        >
        > Peggy :)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8029 From: photo_muse Date: 1/24/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory Cat Questions
        << But I bought 2 more and they lived. >>

        How many do you have? (I bought 4 because they were listed as doing
        better in groups.)

        << Also before buying the new fish I did a water change and it also
        seemed to help. They have been alive for 1 year now. >>

        I did a water change a little over a week ago, so that's probably not
        it. (Although I guess I could have screwed up the nitrogen cycle.
        But no others have died, so ...)

        Thanks!

        Peggy :)
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8030 From: paul helms Date: 1/24/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory Cat Questions
        it sounds like nitrate posioning to me....what was the
        nitrate level in the tank? you existing fish have
        probably been exposed slowly to the build up, if that
        is the problem, and would therefore not be having a
        problem. if i had not ssen healthy cori cats swim
        upside down i would say bacterial infection, but in
        all honesty it sounds like nitrate poisoning. test
        your tank and put in the specifics
        1. ammonia
        2. nitrite
        3. nitrate
        4. ph
        5. temp

        --- photo_muse <photo_muse@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > Hi all!
        >
        > This past Friday I purchased 4 peppered cory
        > cats(corydoras paleatus)
        > to join a plecostomus and an upside down catfish in
        > my 55 gallon
        > aquarium. Other fish in the tank are a bunch of
        > mollies, 9 danios,
        > and two female swordtails.
        >
        > The next day, one of the cory cats wasn't moving
        > much and when it
        > did, it seemed to be having a hard time keeping
        > upright. Sunday
        > morning it was dead and another of the cories was
        > swimming the same
        > way. I put it in a little floating container for
        > keeping baby fish
        > separate from the bigger fish, in an attempt to at
        > least get it near
        > food, but by Sunday evening, it was deceased.
        >
        > This morning, a third cory has slowed down and I
        > fear that it will
        > die, too.
        >
        > I have been feeding (thawed) frozen brine shrimp the
        > past three days,
        > because that is what they said they were feeding
        > them in store. I
        > also drop in shrimp pellets and algae wafers at
        > night for the pleco
        > and upside down catfish. My water tests all come
        > out normal.
        >
        > Does anybody have any advice on keeping cory cats
        > alive and also on
        > why they might be dying? (I hate to go get
        > replacement fish, when
        > it's possible that they are dying because of a
        > problem in the tank!)
        >
        > Thanks!
        >
        > Peggy :)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8031 From: Steve Date: 1/24/2005
        Subject: nbc4.com - News - Group Petitions To Save Snakehead Fish
        I know that some of the groups I am sending this to, this message is not
        exactly on target, but I thought it was interesting, nevertheless. To the
        individual recipients, if you are a member of one of the groups, I apologize
        for the duplication.

        http://www.nbc4.com/news/4125674/detail.html

        Anyhow, this is a quick story about a group filing for protection of the
        snakeheads in the Potomac River drainage under the Endangered Species Act.

        \\Steve//
        I am not a complete idiot--some parts are missing.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8032 From: Robb Rouse Date: 1/24/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish dieing
        Audrey and everyone else that responded to my mail.  I lost the last of my 4 last night.  The 4 Panda Cory's are doing fine and all my water tests seem fine.  I'm just guessing The 4 dwarf's were not meant to be.  I know have a 55 gallon tank with 4 Panda Cory's in it while I try and decide what to have share the space with my corys.
         
        Thanks again.
         
        Robb
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 10:29 AM
        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish dieing

        Robb, I understand - my dwarf gouramis diedin my tank, after it was established. I have heard that they are prone to diseases. The male will also sometimes kill undesired females - I found one bleedng and slowly dieing on the bottom (I believe she was attacked because she didn't want to spawn.) One succumbed to either bloat or being eggbound. The last female died after spawning. After the eggs hatched, the male eventually ate all the spawn but one, then he died too. Finally, the sole surviving female fry died as well - had sores on her body. The golden white clouds in that tank are still all alive and doing well. Try another type of fish?

        Also, you are probably changing too much water at a time. If you are doing it every week, try between 10 and 15%. And maek sure it is the same temp and pH as the existing water in your tank, so you don't stress them. These are tips I found here and on other sites, that worked for me.

        Audrey


        > Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:25:48 -0700
        >From: "Robb Rouse" <robbrouse@...>
        >Subject: Fish dieing

        >I have 3 tanks. a 20 Gallon, a 10 Gallon and a 55 gallon. I'm have probelems with the 55
        >gallon and I can't for the life of me figure out whats going on. I sat the tank up on
        >September 5th and I did a fishless cycel. Well after all my spikes and what not I added 4
        >Dwarf Gouami (3 Femails and 1 Male). Then on November 6th I added 4 Panda Cory's and a Candy
        >Stripe Pleco.
        >
        >Well Everyhing seemed find and dandy for a while on november 25th the the Pleco got trapped and
        >died. So I did a water change check levels and all were fine. Then pn December 31st I lost on
        >of the Dwarf Gouami, then on January 17th I lost the Male Dwarf Gouami, then today I lost
        >another female Dwarf Gouami.
        >
        >I do 25% water changes ever 7 to 10 days most of the time weekly. I'm having no problems with
        >my other 2 tanks. I understand why the Pleco died, but I've lost 3 of my 4 Dwarf Gouami and
        >have no idea why. Any input would be great. The 4 Panda Corrys in the tank are getting bigger
        >and seem to be doing fine.
        >
        >Robb
        >




        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8033 From: tonycllr Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: Converting to planted tanks.
        I recently added living plants to my 30 gallon tank. I planted them
        in little clay pots which can be concealed beneath gravel or rocks.
        This works well for me in lots of ways.

        If you look at 1000 websites you will get 1000 different recipes for
        substrates, as I had no idea what would work best I didn't have to
        commit my entire tank to a substrate that doesn't work best for my
        type of set-up. I can experiment with different substrates and
        substrate fertilisers. For example I currently have 4 identical
        plants each in its own pot with different combinations of loam,
        kitty litter, gravel, sand, laterite, vermiculite ect. Now I sit
        back and monitor them to see which does best.

        I can re-position the pots around the tank or take them put for
        pruning without disturbing the roots
        6 weeks into the project some of the plants are growing like crazy
        (these) will obviously stay. Others doing not so good will be removed
        to make room for other plants that I havent tried yet.

        I have my own little aquatic plant laboratory which is growing in
        beauty every day and is teaching me far more than any book or website
        ever could.

        Hope this is of some use.




        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Julie"
        <jaramey@b...> wrote:
        > My husband wants to convert our 30 gallon over to a planted tank.
        Currently there is a UGF and two power heads and one of those Whisper
        filters that hang on the back of the tank. It has regular aquarium
        gravel in it, some plastic plants and some decorative rocks. I guess
        my questions are, what are some good resources for going about this?
        I am currently doing a Google search and have only found one place
        that looks good. And is this tank going to have to be torn down and
        rebuilt, and then go through a cycle again? Its been up for a year
        now and has an angel, three clown loaches, three minnows (the
        original cycle fish) and a pair of Bala sharks. I know the loaches
        and sharks get big, and we are planning on setting up a 55 or larger
        later on, when finances are ok for it. I have two other tanks (a 20
        and a 10) to distribute the other fish to for a short time if need
        be. They are stocked, with about 10 guppies in the 10 gallon, 6
        guppies, two neon tetras that came with the tank and a molly in the
        20 gal.
        > julie
        > Cheyenne, Wyoming
        > I am not a complete idiot. Some parts are missing.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8034 From: eric douglas Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Converting to planted tanks.
        Where can you find theses clay pots. been to severals
        fish stores, and no one had anything that I could use.
        Inquiring minds need to know..

        Eric

        --- tonycllr <tonycllr@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > I recently added living plants to my 30 gallon tank.
        > I planted them
        > in little clay pots which can be concealed beneath
        > gravel or rocks.
        > This works well for me in lots of ways.
        >
        > If you look at 1000 websites you will get 1000
        > different recipes for
        > substrates, as I had no idea what would work best I
        > didn't have to
        > commit my entire tank to a substrate that doesn't
        > work best for my
        > type of set-up. I can experiment with different
        > substrates and
        > substrate fertilisers. For example I currently have
        > 4 identical
        > plants each in its own pot with different
        > combinations of loam,
        > kitty litter, gravel, sand, laterite, vermiculite
        > ect. Now I sit
        > back and monitor them to see which does best.
        >
        > I can re-position the pots around the tank or take
        > them put for
        > pruning without disturbing the roots
        > 6 weeks into the project some of the plants are
        > growing like crazy
        > (these) will obviously stay. Others doing not so
        > good will be removed
        > to make room for other plants that I havent tried
        > yet.
        >
        > I have my own little aquatic plant laboratory which
        > is growing in
        > beauty every day and is teaching me far more than
        > any book or website
        > ever could.
        >
        > Hope this is of some use.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
        > "Julie"
        > <jaramey@b...> wrote:
        > > My husband wants to convert our 30 gallon over to
        > a planted tank.
        > Currently there is a UGF and two power heads and one
        > of those Whisper
        > filters that hang on the back of the tank. It has
        > regular aquarium
        > gravel in it, some plastic plants and some
        > decorative rocks. I guess
        > my questions are, what are some good resources for
        > going about this?
        > I am currently doing a Google search and have only
        > found one place
        > that looks good. And is this tank going to have to
        > be torn down and
        > rebuilt, and then go through a cycle again? Its
        > been up for a year
        > now and has an angel, three clown loaches, three
        > minnows (the
        > original cycle fish) and a pair of Bala sharks. I
        > know the loaches
        > and sharks get big, and we are planning on setting
        > up a 55 or larger
        > later on, when finances are ok for it. I have two
        > other tanks (a 20
        > and a 10) to distribute the other fish to for a
        > short time if need
        > be. They are stocked, with about 10 guppies in the
        > 10 gallon, 6
        > guppies, two neon tetras that came with the tank and
        > a molly in the
        > 20 gal.
        > > julie
        > > Cheyenne, Wyoming
        > > I am not a complete idiot. Some parts are
        > missing.
        >
        >
        >
        >



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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8035 From: tonycllr Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Converting to planted tanks.
        I am in the UK Eric so this may not apply, I buy them from the local
        gardening supplies store. I guess any kind of terracotta pot would do
        just as well




        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, eric douglas
        <nicelvguy@y...> wrote:
        > Where can you find theses clay pots. been to severals
        > fish stores, and no one had anything that I could use.
        > Inquiring minds need to know..
        >
        > Eric
        >
        > --- tonycllr <tonycllr@y...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > >
        > > I recently added living plants to my 30 gallon tank.
        > > I planted them
        > > in little clay pots which can be concealed beneath
        > > gravel or rocks.
        > > This works well for me in lots of ways.
        > >
        > > If you look at 1000 websites you will get 1000
        > > different recipes for
        > > substrates, as I had no idea what would work best I
        > > didn't have to
        > > commit my entire tank to a substrate that doesn't
        > > work best for my
        > > type of set-up. I can experiment with different
        > > substrates and
        > > substrate fertilisers. For example I currently have
        > > 4 identical
        > > plants each in its own pot with different
        > > combinations of loam,
        > > kitty litter, gravel, sand, laterite, vermiculite
        > > ect. Now I sit
        > > back and monitor them to see which does best.
        > >
        > > I can re-position the pots around the tank or take
        > > them put for
        > > pruning without disturbing the roots
        > > 6 weeks into the project some of the plants are
        > > growing like crazy
        > > (these) will obviously stay. Others doing not so
        > > good will be removed
        > > to make room for other plants that I havent tried
        > > yet.
        > >
        > > I have my own little aquatic plant laboratory which
        > > is growing in
        > > beauty every day and is teaching me far more than
        > > any book or website
        > > ever could.
        > >
        > > Hope this is of some use.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In
        > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
        > > "Julie"
        > > <jaramey@b...> wrote:
        > > > My husband wants to convert our 30 gallon over to
        > > a planted tank.
        > > Currently there is a UGF and two power heads and one
        > > of those Whisper
        > > filters that hang on the back of the tank. It has
        > > regular aquarium
        > > gravel in it, some plastic plants and some
        > > decorative rocks. I guess
        > > my questions are, what are some good resources for
        > > going about this?
        > > I am currently doing a Google search and have only
        > > found one place
        > > that looks good. And is this tank going to have to
        > > be torn down and
        > > rebuilt, and then go through a cycle again? Its
        > > been up for a year
        > > now and has an angel, three clown loaches, three
        > > minnows (the
        > > original cycle fish) and a pair of Bala sharks. I
        > > know the loaches
        > > and sharks get big, and we are planning on setting
        > > up a 55 or larger
        > > later on, when finances are ok for it. I have two
        > > other tanks (a 20
        > > and a 10) to distribute the other fish to for a
        > > short time if need
        > > be. They are stocked, with about 10 guppies in the
        > > 10 gallon, 6
        > > guppies, two neon tetras that came with the tank and
        > > a molly in the
        > > 20 gal.
        > > > julie
        > > > Cheyenne, Wyoming
        > > > I am not a complete idiot. Some parts are
        > > missing.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
        > Do you Yahoo!?
        > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
        > http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8036 From: Julie Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Converting to planted tanks.
        Thank you all for your help with this!!! We are trying a couple of ways to
        see which works better for our situation. We are trying to plant them
        straight, using a couple of Paul's suggested plants and also potting a few
        up to see if they do better.
        julie
        Cheyenne, Wyoming
        I am not a complete idiot. Some parts are missing.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8037 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Fish with a red sore
        Hello,
        I just introduced 2 new guppies into my tank, they showed no signs
        of any illnesses while in quarentine but now 3 days later after being
        in the main tank I have noticed one of them has a red spot on top of
        his head closer to his eye. it looks like when you get a blood blister
        under your skin (it's not raised just red) is this maybe from the
        other fish attacking him, or is it maybe some disease and he should be
        taken out of the tank? any info thanks
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8038 From: paul helms Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        sounds like a skin ulceration cused by bacteria on a
        scratch or bite. melafix works really well on that.
        --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

        >
        > Hello,
        > I just introduced 2 new guppies into my tank, they
        > showed no signs
        > of any illnesses while in quarentine but now 3 days
        > later after being
        > in the main tank I have noticed one of them has a
        > red spot on top of
        > his head closer to his eye. it looks like when you
        > get a blood blister
        > under your skin (it's not raised just red) is this
        > maybe from the
        > other fish attacking him, or is it maybe some
        > disease and he should be
        > taken out of the tank? any info thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >




        __________________________________
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        Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
        http://my.yahoo.com
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8039 From: Angela Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Nitrite Levels
        I had my water tested today and the nitrites were again very, very
        high. The ph and ammonia were perfect. I've put a Nitra Zorb pouch
        in the filter to see if that clears it up. Hopefully, while we're
        gone for the next 5 days, that thing will work.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8040 From: paul helms Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrite Levels
        the ammoni ais ok now because it has converted to
        nitrite, which will convert to nitrate
        --- Angela <angelasjenkins@...> wrote:

        >
        > I had my water tested today and the nitrites were
        > again very, very
        > high. The ph and ammonia were perfect. I've put a
        > Nitra Zorb pouch
        > in the filter to see if that clears it up.
        > Hopefully, while we're
        > gone for the next 5 days, that thing will work.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8041 From: pickles Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Converting to planted tanks.
        Yep, I have used new flower pots,,,(never used ones as some may have ferterlizer and ther such stuff in them and they soak up everything)...Get them at any garden shop, I break them in half etc to make better caves out of them , my cribs esp loved to nest in them...Mary
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: tonycllr
        Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:50 AM
        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Converting to planted tanks.


        I am in the UK Eric so this may not apply, I buy them from the local
        gardening supplies store. I guess any kind of terracotta pot would do
        just as well




        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, eric douglas
        <nicelvguy@y...> wrote:
        > Where can you find theses clay pots. been to severals
        > fish stores, and no one had anything that I could use.
        > Inquiring minds need to know..
        >
        > Eric
        >
        > --- tonycllr <tonycllr@y...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > >
        > > I recently added living plants to my 30 gallon tank.
        > > I planted them
        > > in little  clay pots which can be concealed beneath
        > > gravel or rocks.
        > > This works well for me in lots of ways.
        > >
        > > If you look at 1000 websites you will get 1000
        > > different recipes for
        > > substrates, as I had no idea what  would work best I
        > > didn't have to
        > > commit my entire tank to a substrate that doesn't
        > > work best for my
        > > type of set-up.  I can experiment with different
        > > substrates and
        > > substrate fertilisers. For example I currently have
        > > 4 identical
        > > plants each in its own pot with different
        > > combinations of  loam,
        > > kitty litter, gravel, sand, laterite, vermiculite
        > > ect.  Now I sit
        > > back and monitor them to see which does best.
        > >
        > > I can re-position the pots around the tank or take
        > > them put for
        > > pruning without disturbing the roots
        > > 6 weeks into the project some of  the plants are
        > > growing like crazy
        > > (these) will obviously stay. Others doing not so
        > > good will be removed
        > > to make room for other plants that I havent tried
        > > yet.
        > >
        > > I have my own little aquatic plant laboratory which
        > > is growing in
        > > beauty every day and is teaching me far more than
        > > any book or website
        > > ever could.
        > >
        > > Hope this is of some use.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In
        > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
        > > "Julie"
        > > <jaramey@b...> wrote:
        > > > My husband wants to convert our 30 gallon over to
        > > a planted tank. 
        > > Currently there is a UGF and two power heads and one
        > > of those Whisper
        > > filters that hang on the back of the tank.  It has
        > > regular aquarium
        > > gravel in it, some plastic plants and some
        > > decorative rocks.  I guess
        > > my questions are, what are some good resources for
        > > going about this? 
        > > I am currently doing a Google search and have only
        > > found one place
        > > that looks good.  And is this tank going to have to
        > > be torn down and
        > > rebuilt, and then go through a cycle again?  Its
        > > been up for a year
        > > now and has an angel, three clown loaches, three
        > > minnows (the
        > > original cycle fish) and a pair of Bala sharks.  I
        > > know the loaches
        > > and sharks get big, and we are planning on setting
        > > up a 55 or larger
        > > later on, when finances are ok for it.  I have two
        > > other tanks (a 20
        > > and a 10) to distribute the other fish to for a
        > > short time if need
        > > be.  They are  stocked, with about 10 guppies in the
        > > 10 gallon,  6
        > > guppies, two neon tetras that came with the tank and
        > > a molly in the
        > > 20 gal.
        > > > julie
        > > > Cheyenne, Wyoming
        > > > I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are
        > > missing.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >            
        > __________________________________
        > Do you Yahoo!?
        > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
        > http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo





        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8042 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        Wow, before I left to my daughters doctors appt. there where 2 more
        and than 2 hours later I just got home and he is dead. can this spread
        to my other fish? Now I'm scared. help please.



        > sounds like a skin ulceration cused by bacteria on a
        > scratch or bite. melafix works really well on that.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8043 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Digest Number 581 - CLAY POTS
        I am in the UK Eric so this may not apply, I buy them from the local
        gardening supplies store. I guess any kind of terracotta pot would do
        just as well.

        Check the garden dept. of any large department store - Wal*Mart, KMart, hardware store, or similar.  They might be a little difficult to find since this is not planting season, but a lot of the stores will soon be putting out their spring planting supplies.
        Or check the farm/garden supplies column in your local paper.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8044 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 581 - CLAY POTS
           You could even try little-clay pots, or little-terra-cotta-pots in GOOGLE.
                                                 JoeP
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
        I am in the UK Eric so this may not apply, I buy them from the local
        gardening supplies store. I guess any kind of terracotta pot would do
        just as well.

        Check the garden dept. of any large department store - Wal*Mart, KMart, hardware store, or similar.  They might be a little difficult to find since this is not planting season, but a lot of the stores will soon be putting out their spring planting supplies.
        Or check the farm/garden supplies column in your local paper.


        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8045 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Tragedy!
        Ok - I'm major bummed out!

        I had added a couple of smaller Daffodils to my mixed African tank.
        One wasn't doing well - so planned on taking it back to the fish
        store tonight. I went to check on my boys after work today - and to
        my horror I find the daffodil - tail sticking out of my Red Shoulder
        Peacock (my favorite fish of all I have - a truly beautiful fish) -
        both dead on the bottom of the aquarium. I scooped him out -
        pulled the dead daffy out - even tried some kind of cpr - but - no
        use - he's dead. Guess he tried to eat it - it got stuck in his
        mouth or something - and killed em both. Even a big old redneck
        from Tennessee like me is kinda bummed out...not to mention $40 of
        fish now dead.....


        Just sharing my depression......
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8046 From: eric douglas Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        Make sure to take your filter out when using it.
        Otherwise you just wasting your money.

        --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

        > sounds like a skin ulceration cused by bacteria on
        > a
        > scratch or bite. melafix works really well on that.
        > --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > Hello,
        > > I just introduced 2 new guppies into my tank,
        > they
        > > showed no signs
        > > of any illnesses while in quarentine but now 3
        > days
        > > later after being
        > > in the main tank I have noticed one of them has a
        > > red spot on top of
        > > his head closer to his eye. it looks like when you
        > > get a blood blister
        > > under your skin (it's not raised just red) is this
        > > maybe from the
        > > other fish attacking him, or is it maybe some
        > > disease and he should be
        > > taken out of the tank? any info thanks
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
        > Do you Yahoo!?
        > Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
        > http://my.yahoo.com
        >
        >
        >




        __________________________________
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8047 From: eric douglas Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        Use the melafix right away. Turn off filter. Do water
        BEFORE adding medicine, THEN DO NO water changes
        untill told to do so by the instrutions. Feed the
        fish like normal. If you have over head light leave on
        24/7. If you have plants in tank discontinue any plant
        food.

        Eric

        --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

        >
        > Wow, before I left to my daughters doctors appt.
        > there where 2 more
        > and than 2 hours later I just got home and he is
        > dead. can this spread
        > to my other fish? Now I'm scared. help please.
        >
        >
        >
        > > sounds like a skin ulceration cused by bacteria
        > on a
        > > scratch or bite. melafix works really well on
        > that.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




        __________________________________
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8048 From: Amalthea Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        don't take your filter out, just any carbon you might have. taking your
        filter out will result in a crash.
        http://www.puppetterrors.com
        Don't be Afraid to Scream....
        On Jan 25, 2005, at 7:33 PM, eric douglas wrote:

        > Make sure to take your filter out when using it.
        > Otherwise you just wasting your money.
        >
        > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
        >
        > > sounds like a skin ulceration  cused by bacteria on
        > > a
        > > scratch or bite.  melafix works really well on that.
        > > --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > >
        > > > Hello,
        > > >   I just introduced 2 new guppies into my tank,
        > > they
        > > > showed no signs
        > > > of any illnesses while in quarentine but now 3
        > > days
        > > > later after being
        > > > in the main tank I have noticed one of them has a
        > > > red spot on top of
        > > > his head closer to his eye. it looks like when you
        > > > get a blood blister
        > > > under your skin (it's not raised just red) is this
        > > > maybe from the
        > > > other fish attacking him, or is it maybe some
        > > > disease and he should be
        > > > taken out of the tank? any info thanks
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >            
        > > __________________________________
        > > Do you Yahoo!?
        > > Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
        > > http://my.yahoo.com
        > > 
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >            
        > __________________________________
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        > Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
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        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >
        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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        >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8049 From: Amalthea Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        again do NOT turn off filter. and no, don't leave the light on 24/7
        that's just going to stress the fish (which, if you all followed, is
        already dead, this is only for future reference.)
        Bored? Never Fear!
        http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
        On Jan 25, 2005, at 7:44 PM, eric douglas wrote:

        > Use the melafix right away. Turn off filter. Do water
        > BEFORE adding medicine, THEN DO NO water changes
        > untill  told to do so by the instrutions. Feed the
        > fish like normal. If you have over head light leave on
        > 24/7. If you have plants in tank discontinue any plant
        > food.
        >
        > Eric
        >
        > --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > Wow, before I left to my daughters doctors appt.
        > > there where 2 more
        > > and than 2 hours later I just got home and he is
        > > dead. can this spread
        > > to my other fish? Now I'm scared. help please.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > > sounds like a skin ulceration  cused by bacteria
        > > on a
        > > > scratch or bite.  melafix works really well on
        > > that.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >            
        > __________________________________
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        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
        >
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        >
        >
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        >
        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8050 From: eric douglas Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        Needs to remove the carbon of the filter or the
        medcine will get filtered out. I turn my filter off
        last time and did a water change first then added
        medicine and all fish recovered.


        --- Amalthea <amalthea23@...> wrote:

        > don't take your filter out, just any carbon you
        > might have. taking your
        > filter out will result in a crash.
        > http://www.puppetterrors.com
        > Don't be Afraid to Scream....
        > On Jan 25, 2005, at 7:33 PM, eric douglas wrote:
        >
        > > Make sure to take your filter out when using it.
        > > Otherwise you just wasting your money.
        > >
        > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > > sounds like a skin ulceration cused by
        > bacteria on
        > > > a
        > > > scratch or bite. melafix works really well on
        > that.
        > > > --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...>
        > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Hello,
        > > > > I just introduced 2 new guppies into my
        > tank,
        > > > they
        > > > > showed no signs
        > > > > of any illnesses while in quarentine but now
        > 3
        > > > days
        > > > > later after being
        > > > > in the main tank I have noticed one of them
        > has a
        > > > > red spot on top of
        > > > > his head closer to his eye. it looks like
        > when you
        > > > > get a blood blister
        > > > > under your skin (it's not raised just red) is
        > this
        > > > > maybe from the
        > > > > other fish attacking him, or is it maybe some
        > > > > disease and he should be
        > > > > taken out of the tank? any info thanks
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > __________________________________
        > > > Do you Yahoo!?
        > > > Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
        > > > http://my.yahoo.com
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > __________________________________
        > > Do you Yahoo!?
        > > Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage
        > less.
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        > >
        > >
        > > please delete this line and everything below it
        > when replying, thanks
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > >
        >
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        > >
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        > to:
        > >
        >
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        > >
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        > Yahoo! Terms of
        > > Service.
        > >
        > >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8051 From: Amalthea Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        all you have to do is take out the carbon. when you turn off the
        filter, the good bacteria inside die and then when you turn it back on
        they create a toxic situation in the tank. never for any reason turn
        off your filter.
        Bored? Never Fear!
        http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
        On Jan 25, 2005, at 7:53 PM, eric douglas wrote:

        >
        > Needs to remove the carbon of the filter or the
        > medcine will get filtered out. I turn my filter off
        > last time and did a water change first then added
        > medicine and all fish recovered.
        >
        >
        > --- Amalthea <amalthea23@...> wrote:
        >
        >> don't take your filter out, just any carbon you
        >> might have. taking your
        >> filter out will result in a crash.
        >> http://www.puppetterrors.com
        >> Don't be Afraid to Scream....
        >> On Jan 25, 2005, at 7:33 PM, eric douglas wrote:
        >>
        >>> Make sure to take your filter out when using it.
        >>> Otherwise you just wasting your money.
        >>>
        >>> --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
        >>>
        >>>> sounds like a skin ulceration cused by
        >> bacteria on
        >>>> a
        >>>> scratch or bite. melafix works really well on
        >> that.
        >>>> --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...>
        >> wrote:
        >>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Hello,
        >>>>> I just introduced 2 new guppies into my
        >> tank,
        >>>> they
        >>>>> showed no signs
        >>>>> of any illnesses while in quarentine but now
        >> 3
        >>>> days
        >>>>> later after being
        >>>>> in the main tank I have noticed one of them
        >> has a
        >>>>> red spot on top of
        >>>>> his head closer to his eye. it looks like
        >> when you
        >>>>> get a blood blister
        >>>>> under your skin (it's not raised just red) is
        >> this
        >>>>> maybe from the
        >>>>> other fish attacking him, or is it maybe some
        >>>>> disease and he should be
        >>>>> taken out of the tank? any info thanks
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>> __________________________________
        >>>> Do you Yahoo!?
        >>>> Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
        >>>> http://my.yahoo.com
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> __________________________________
        >>> Do you Yahoo!?
        >>> Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage
        >> less.
        >>> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> please delete this line and everything below it
        >> when replying, thanks
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>>
        >>> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
        >>>
        >>
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        >>>
        >>> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
        >> to:
        >>>
        >>
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >>>
        >>> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
        >> Yahoo! Terms of
        >>> Service.
        >>>
        >>>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8052 From: paul helms Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        remove the carbon DO NOT TURN OFF FILTERS. the are
        not only the source of biologic filtration, but oxygen
        for the fish as well.
        --- eric douglas <nicelvguy@...> wrote:

        >
        > Needs to remove the carbon of the filter or the
        > medcine will get filtered out. I turn my filter off
        > last time and did a water change first then added
        > medicine and all fish recovered.
        >
        >
        > --- Amalthea <amalthea23@...> wrote:
        >
        > > don't take your filter out, just any carbon you
        > > might have. taking your
        > > filter out will result in a crash.
        > > http://www.puppetterrors.com
        > > Don't be Afraid to Scream....
        > > On Jan 25, 2005, at 7:33 PM, eric douglas wrote:
        > >
        > > > Make sure to take your filter out when using it.
        > > > Otherwise you just wasting your money.
        > > >
        > > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > sounds like a skin ulceration cused by
        > > bacteria on
        > > > > a
        > > > > scratch or bite. melafix works really well
        > on
        > > that.
        > > > > --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...>
        > > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Hello,
        > > > > > I just introduced 2 new guppies into my
        > > tank,
        > > > > they
        > > > > > showed no signs
        > > > > > of any illnesses while in quarentine but
        > now
        > > 3
        > > > > days
        > > > > > later after being
        > > > > > in the main tank I have noticed one of them
        > > has a
        > > > > > red spot on top of
        > > > > > his head closer to his eye. it looks like
        > > when you
        > > > > > get a blood blister
        > > > > > under your skin (it's not raised just red)
        > is
        > > this
        > > > > > maybe from the
        > > > > > other fish attacking him, or is it maybe
        > some
        > > > > > disease and he should be
        > > > > > taken out of the tank? any info thanks
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > __________________________________
        > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
        > > > > Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
        > > > > http://my.yahoo.com
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > __________________________________
        > > > Do you Yahoo!?
        > > > Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more.
        > Manage
        > > less.
        > > > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > please delete this line and everything below it
        > > when replying, thanks
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > >
        > > > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > > >
        > >
        >
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        > > >
        > > > � To unsubscribe from this group, send an
        > email
        > > to:
        > > >
        > >
        >
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        > > >
        > > > � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
        > > Yahoo! Terms of
        > > > Service.
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        >
        >
        >
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8053 From: paul helms Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        i don't know who eric is, but
        1. never turn off your filters
        2. do not leave lights on 24/7 fish need down time
        too.
        3. do not run lights more than 14 hours per day
        unless you want out of control algae.
        4. melafix is used for three consecutive days
        followed by a 20% water change, so don't change the
        wtaer first.
        --- eric douglas <nicelvguy@...> wrote:

        > Use the melafix right away. Turn off filter. Do
        > water
        > BEFORE adding medicine, THEN DO NO water changes
        > untill told to do so by the instrutions. Feed the
        > fish like normal. If you have over head light leave
        > on
        > 24/7. If you have plants in tank discontinue any
        > plant
        > food.
        >
        > Eric
        >
        > --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > Wow, before I left to my daughters doctors appt.
        > > there where 2 more
        > > and than 2 hours later I just got home and he is
        > > dead. can this spread
        > > to my other fish? Now I'm scared. help please.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > > sounds like a skin ulceration cused by bacteria
        > > on a
        > > > scratch or bite. melafix works really well on
        > > that.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
        > Do you Yahoo!?
        > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
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        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8054 From: paul helms Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        AGAIN! do not "take out your filter", but remove the
        carbon from it.
        --- eric douglas <nicelvguy@...> wrote:

        > Make sure to take your filter out when using it.
        > Otherwise you just wasting your money.
        >
        > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
        >
        > > sounds like a skin ulceration cused by bacteria
        > on
        > > a
        > > scratch or bite. melafix works really well on
        > that.
        > > --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > >
        > > > Hello,
        > > > I just introduced 2 new guppies into my tank,
        > > they
        > > > showed no signs
        > > > of any illnesses while in quarentine but now 3
        > > days
        > > > later after being
        > > > in the main tank I have noticed one of them has
        > a
        > > > red spot on top of
        > > > his head closer to his eye. it looks like when
        > you
        > > > get a blood blister
        > > > under your skin (it's not raised just red) is
        > this
        > > > maybe from the
        > > > other fish attacking him, or is it maybe some
        > > > disease and he should be
        > > > taken out of the tank? any info thanks
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > __________________________________
        > > Do you Yahoo!?
        > > Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
        > > http://my.yahoo.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
        > Do you Yahoo!?
        > Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage
        > less.
        > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8055 From: paul helms Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        does not spread to others, but you may want to use the
        melafix anyway to kill off teh negative bacteria...it
        is not harmful to your bio filters.
        --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

        >
        > Wow, before I left to my daughters doctors appt.
        > there where 2 more
        > and than 2 hours later I just got home and he is
        > dead. can this spread
        > to my other fish? Now I'm scared. help please.
        >
        >
        >
        > > sounds like a skin ulceration cused by bacteria
        > on a
        > > scratch or bite. melafix works really well on
        > that.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8056 From: wjcoldman Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Converting to planted tanks.
        I really like the clay pot idea. Anyone know who has something like
        that in the USA / Ohio area. I am just getting into plants heavy.
        Currently have a 60 gal and a 25 gal with plants experimenting with
        peat pellets and using plant gravel. Each tank has(1) 404 Fuval
        running on it. Running a double 55 watt compact and a double Fol tube
        on each tank.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8057 From: Amalthea Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Converting to planted tanks.
        the best place to get the tiny ones is craft stores like michaels and
        ac moore. there's tons of those little pots there.
        http://www.amaltheasattic.com
        Your Alternative to the Alternative....
        On Jan 25, 2005, at 8:50 PM, wjcoldman wrote:

        >
        > I really like the clay pot idea. Anyone know who has something like
        > that in the USA / Ohio area. I am just getting into plants heavy.
        > Currently have a 60 gal and a 25 gal with plants experimenting with
        > peat pellets and using plant gravel. Each tank has(1)  404 Fuval
        > running on it. Running a double 55 watt compact and a double Fol tube
        > on each tank. 
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        >  
        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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        > Service.
        >
        >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8058 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        Ok that's a relief to know it doesn't spread, I was stressing out, a
        few other fish looked stressed but it may be because I did a couple of
        water changes 1 gallon at a time between a few hours. (I just did a
        gravel sucking water change sunday.) Or it could be the new
        decorations I added. as for the melafix I live in a small town and the
        nearest walmart is to far away, so I will try and get some tomorrow. I
        do have some fungus elimanater that came with the tank when I bought
        it but i bought it about a year ago so I'm not sure how good that
        stuff still is. (it's already been opened)


        > does not spread to others, but you may want to use the
        > melafix anyway to kill off teh negative bacteria...it
        > is not harmful to your bio filters.
        > --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@H...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > Wow, before I left to my daughters doctors appt.
        > > there where 2 more
        > > and than 2 hours later I just got home and he is
        > > dead. can this spread
        > > to my other fish? Now I'm scared. help please.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > > sounds like a skin ulceration cused by bacteria
        > > on a
        > > > scratch or bite. melafix works really well on
        > > that.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
        > Do you Yahoo!?
        > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
        > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8059 From: Amalthea Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        after you get a small bottle at walmart, you might try someplace like
        www.drsfostersmith.com and just get a larger bottle to keep on hand.
        it's cheaper that way and it's a useful thing to keep around.
        http://www.amaltheasattic.com
        Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
        On Jan 25, 2005, at 9:19 PM, mommy2acdhsurvivor wrote:

        >
        > Ok that's a relief to know it doesn't spread, I was stressing out, a
        > few other fish looked stressed but it may be because I did a couple of
        > water changes 1 gallon at a time between a few hours. (I just did a
        > gravel sucking water change sunday.) Or it could be the new
        > decorations I added. as for the melafix I live in a small town and the
        > nearest walmart is to far away, so I will try and get some tomorrow. I
        > do have some fungus elimanater that came with the tank when I bought
        > it but i bought it about a year ago so I'm not sure how good that
        > stuff still is. (it's already been opened)
        >
        >
        > > does not spread to others, but you may want to use the
        > > melafix anyway to kill off teh negative bacteria...it
        > > is not harmful to your bio filters.
        > > --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@H...> wrote:
        > >
        > > >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8060 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        Thanks I'll check out that site. I had one fish with ick a few months
        back and so far this is the only other problem, It's scary bringing in
        new fish!

        > after you get a small bottle at walmart, you might try someplace like
        > www.drsfostersmith.com and just get a larger bottle to keep on hand.
        > it's cheaper that way and it's a useful thing to keep around.
        > http://www.amaltheasattic.com
        > Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
        > On Jan 25, 2005, at 9:19 PM, mommy2acdhsurvivor wrote:
        >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8061 From: Dawana Branch Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        Turn OFF the filter?  How about just removing the carbon?  I don't think turning off the filter is a good idea.  The carbon is what would remove the medicine.
         
        Just my opinion.  I would NEVER turn off my filter.
         
        -Dawana
        (Hobbyist for about 3 years - freshwater only)
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 7:44 PM
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore


        Use the melafix right away. Turn off filter. Do water
        BEFORE adding medicine, THEN DO NO water changes
        untill  told to do so by the instrutions. Feed the
        fish like normal. If you have over head light leave on
        24/7. If you have plants in tank discontinue any plant
        food.

        Eric

        --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

        >
        > Wow, before I left to my daughters doctors appt.
        > there where 2 more
        > and than 2 hours later I just got home and he is
        > dead. can this spread
        > to my other fish? Now I'm scared. help please.
        >
        >
        >
        > > sounds like a skin ulceration  cused by bacteria
        > on a
        > > scratch or bite.  melafix works really well on
        > that.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




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        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
         
        Yahoo! Groups Links

        <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/

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            FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
         



        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8062 From: paul helms Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        they don't have fungus...don't use it.
        also, be careful with the gravel vac, don't go more
        than about 1/4 DEEP WITH IT, AND DON'T USE IT MONTHLY
        UNLESS YOU OVERFEED, IN WHICH CASE DO IT ONCE AND STOP
        OVER FEEDING.LOL
        --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

        >
        > Ok that's a relief to know it doesn't spread, I was
        > stressing out, a
        > few other fish looked stressed but it may be because
        > I did a couple of
        > water changes 1 gallon at a time between a few
        > hours. (I just did a
        > gravel sucking water change sunday.) Or it could be
        > the new
        > decorations I added. as for the melafix I live in a
        > small town and the
        > nearest walmart is to far away, so I will try and
        > get some tomorrow. I
        > do have some fungus elimanater that came with the
        > tank when I bought
        > it but i bought it about a year ago so I'm not sure
        > how good that
        > stuff still is. (it's already been opened)
        >
        >
        > > does not spread to others, but you may want to use
        > the
        > > melafix anyway to kill off teh negative
        > bacteria...it
        > > is not harmful to your bio filters.
        > > --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@H...> wrote:
        > >
        > > >
        > > > Wow, before I left to my daughters doctors appt.
        > > > there where 2 more
        > > > and than 2 hours later I just got home and he is
        > > > dead. can this spread
        > > > to my other fish? Now I'm scared. help please.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > > sounds like a skin ulceration cused by
        > bacteria
        > > > on a
        > > > > scratch or bite. melafix works really well on
        > > > that.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > __________________________________
        > > Do you Yahoo!?
        > > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty
        > viruses.
        > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
        >
        >
        >
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8063 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        Yeah I know not to turn off the filter, I've had my 2 current tanks up
        for over a year and before that I had a 10 gallon set up for almost 3
        years. I only have the filter that hangs on the back of the tank and
        the filter is put together with carbon already in it, how would I
        remove it without wrecking the filter?


        > Turn OFF the filter? How about just removing the carbon? I don't
        think turning off the filter is a good idea. The carbon is what would
        remove the medicine.
        >
        > Just my opinion. I would NEVER turn off my filter.
        >
        > -Dawana
        > (Hobbyist for about 3 years - freshwater only)
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8064 From: Amalthea Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        if you have a combination cartridge, you can just pull that out, make a
        slit and shake out the carbon. if the carbon has been in there for a
        long while, over 8 weeks, don't even worry about removing it because
        it's likely to have lost it's effectiveness anyway.
        amalthea
        http://www.amaltheasattic.com
        Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
        On Jan 25, 2005, at 11:07 PM, mommy2acdhsurvivor wrote:

        >
        > Yeah I know not to turn off the filter, I've had my 2 current tanks up
        > for over a year and before that I had a 10 gallon set up for almost 3
        > years. I only have the filter that hangs on the back of the tank and
        > the filter is put together with carbon already in it, how would I
        > remove it without wrecking the filter?
        >
        >
        > > Turn OFF the filter?  How about just removing the carbon?  I don't
        > think turning off the filter is a good idea.  The carbon is what would
        > remove the medicine.
        > >
        > > Just my opinion.  I would NEVER turn off my filter.
        > >
        > > -Dawana
        > > (Hobbyist for about 3 years - freshwater only)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        >  
        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >  
        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        > Service.
        >
        >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8065 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
            I have turned off my filter during a water change and forgot to plug it back in for 2 or 3 days.  I didn't have any problems the two times that has happened, but I would never leave it off for more than a few hours on purpose.  In fact, I quit turning my filter off.
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8066 From: paul helms Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        just remove the carbon bag/ cartridge like you were
        going to replace it....you just need to keep water
        circulating
        --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

        >
        > Yeah I know not to turn off the filter, I've had my
        > 2 current tanks up
        > for over a year and before that I had a 10 gallon
        > set up for almost 3
        > years. I only have the filter that hangs on the back
        > of the tank and
        > the filter is put together with carbon already in
        > it, how would I
        > remove it without wrecking the filter?
        >
        >
        > > Turn OFF the filter? How about just removing the
        > carbon? I don't
        > think turning off the filter is a good idea. The
        > carbon is what would
        > remove the medicine.
        > >
        > > Just my opinion. I would NEVER turn off my
        > filter.
        > >
        > > -Dawana
        > > (Hobbyist for about 3 years - freshwater only)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




        __________________________________
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        Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
        http://my.yahoo.com
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8067 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
           Neglecting a filter, including turning it off, can cause a terrible stench in time. Never had it analysed, but it can't ALLbe good.
                                         JoeP
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
            I have turned off my filter during a water change and forgot to plug it back in for 2 or 3 days.  I didn't have any problems the two times that has happened, but I would never leave it off for more than a few hours on purpose.  In fact, I quit turning my filter off.
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8068 From: Anne Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tragedy!
        "Ok - I'm major bummed out!
        I had added a couple of smaller Daffodils to my mixed
        African tank. One wasn't doing well - so planned on
        taking it back to the fish store tonight..."

        Major bummer is right. Sorry to hear about your loss.
        I've gone 3 days without a fish kill though ammonia
        level is still high. But then, the day isn't quite
        over yet.





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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8069 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        Ok I wasn't sure, glad I didn't use it. I do the gravel vac maybe
        every three weeks when I feel energetic, I don't over feed but it
        sucks up alot of poop.


        > they don't have fungus...don't use it.
        > also, be careful with the gravel vac, don't go more
        > than about 1/4 DEEP WITH IT, AND DON'T USE IT MONTHLY
        > UNLESS YOU OVERFEED, IN WHICH CASE DO IT ONCE AND STOP
        > OVER FEEDING.LOL
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8070 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        Oh yeah it's been in there since I got the tank, I guess that means
        it's time to get a new filter??? I always thought it was bad to change
        it because that's where most of your good bacteria is. But thanks for
        the info. I'm sure I'll need it again sooner or later.


        > if you have a combination cartridge, you can just pull that out, make a
        > slit and shake out the carbon. if the carbon has been in there for a
        > long while, over 8 weeks, don't even worry about removing it because
        > it's likely to have lost it's effectiveness anyway.
        > amalthea
        > http://www.amaltheasattic.com
        > Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8071 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
            It's not a problem to turn off the filter to remove the carbon, if you must. What I can't understand is why you can't remove the carbon?
           If there's a medium in the filter that houses nitro-related bacteria, that can be removed, you could place it in another, non-carbonized filter, but then you said the carbon is 'fixed' into a hang-on filter (then I suppose the bacteria-laden filter-medium can't be removed either), and I've never seen anything like that.
                                                           Joe P
         
        -------------- Original message --------------

        Yeah I know not to turn off the filter, I've had my 2 current tanks up
        for over a year and before that I had a 10 gallon set up for almost 3
        years. I only have the filter that hangs on the back of the tank and
        the filter is put together with carbon already in it, how would I
        remove it without wrecking the filter?


        > Turn OFF the filter?  How about just removing the carbon?  I don't
        think turning off the filter is a good idea.  The carbon is what would
        remove the medicine.
        >
        > Just my opinion.  I would NEVER turn off my filter.
        >
        > -Dawana
        > (Hobbyist for about 3 years - freshwater only)






        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8072 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
           I would'nt allow ANY carbon or activated carbon in the tank while medicating. I've seen recommendations about how often to change the stuff, but never a detailed analysis, a'la loads of charts and graphs, about what and how much and how-long and why carbon will absorb, etc., etc., etc. There are too many unknowns for me.
                                            JoeP
                               ps
                                        I would'nt allow  ammo-chips or ammonia removing resin, ar any OTHER contaminant reducing material in the tank while medicating.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------

        > if you have a combination cartridge, you can just pull that out, make
        > a slit and shake out the carbon. if the carbon has been in there for a
        > long while, over 8 weeks, don't even worry about removing it because
        > it's likely to have lost it's effectiveness anyway.
        >
        > amalthea
        >
        > Helvetica http://www.amaltheasattic.com
        >
        > Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
        >
        > On Jan 25, 2005, at 11:07 PM, mommy2acdhsurvivor wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yeah I know not to turn off the filter, I've had my 2 current
        > tanks up
        >
        > for over a year and before that I had a 10 gallon set up for
        > almost 3
        >
        > years. I only have the filter that hangs on the back of the
        > tank and
        >
        > the filter is put together with carbon already in it, how
        > would I
        >
        > remove it without wrecking the filter?
        >
        >
        >
        > > Turn OFF the filter? How about just removing the carbon? I
        > don't
        >
        > think turning off the filter is a good idea. The carbon is
        > what would
        >
        > remove the medicine.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Just my opinion. I would NEVER turn off my filter.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > -Dawana
        >
        > > (Hobbyist for about 3 years - freshwater only)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
        > thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Helvetica Yahoo! Groups
        > Links
        >
        >
        > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
        >
        > 0000,0000,EEEE http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Freshwa
        > terTropicalFishAquarium/
        >
        >
        >
        > � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >
        > 0000,0000,EEEE FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubs
        > cribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
        > 0000,0000,EEEE Yahoo! Terms of Service .
        >
        >
        >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8073 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
           Mechanical filter material would help, especially if it's an asset in removing dead bio-mass.
                                     JoeP
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
        just remove the carbon bag/ cartridge like you were
        going to replace it....you just need to keep water
        circulating
        --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

        >
        > Yeah I know not to turn off the filter, I've had my
        > 2 current tanks up
        > for over a year and before that I had a 10 gallon
        > set up for almost 3
        > years. I only have the filter that hangs on the back
        > of the tank and
        > the filter is put together with carbon already in
        > it, how would I
        > remove it without wrecking the filter?
        >
        >
        > > Turn OFF the filter?  How about just removing the
        > carbon?  I don't
        > think turning off the filter is a good idea.  The
        > carbon is what would
        > remove the medicine.
        > >
        > > Just my opinion.  I would NEVER turn off my
        > filter.
        > >
        > > -Dawana
        > > (Hobbyist for about 3 years - freshwater only)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >



                   
        __________________________________
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        Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
        http://my.yahoo.com




        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8074 From: Lyndsay Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Lethargic betta with a gold dust (still eating)
        My betta used to be quite an active fella but for the last few days
        he has been resting at the bottom or in his floating plant. He still
        eats normally and sometimes he swims around like usual but he is
        getting more and more lethargic. He has been like this for about 6
        days now. I have been checking his body for any spots or rotting but
        there was nothing that I could see until today. I checked him today
        and found he had tiny gold spots attached to him, like gold dust. It
        is mainly on his head. Is this velvet? What should I do to treat it?
        I feed him one pellet (Penn-Plax Pro Balance Betta Food) in the
        morning and one at night aswell as freeze dried bloodworms once or
        twice a week instead of the pellet. He eats hungrily, jumping out of
        the water to get the food. The tank is kept at 26 degrees C.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8075 From: paul helms Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        that is not all poop, a lot of it is benneficial
        bacteria
        --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

        >
        > Ok I wasn't sure, glad I didn't use it. I do the
        > gravel vac maybe
        > every three weeks when I feel energetic, I don't
        > over feed but it
        > sucks up alot of poop.
        >
        >
        > > they don't have fungus...don't use it.
        > > also, be careful with the gravel vac, don't go
        > more
        > > than about 1/4 DEEP WITH IT, AND DON'T USE IT
        > MONTHLY
        > > UNLESS YOU OVERFEED, IN WHICH CASE DO IT ONCE AND
        > STOP
        > > OVER FEEDING.LOL
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




        __________________________________
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        The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8076 From: boy2coool Date: 1/25/2005
        Subject: Swordtails dieing
        Shouldn't swordtails be kept with livebearers like Mollies and
        Guppies. I noticed that only female red swordtails are dieing. am just
        wondering what could be the reason? I have 2 small yellow Gouramis too
        in the same tank.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8077 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: Lethargic betta with a gold dust (still eating)
        Yes, this is Velvet. Your temperature seems OK. Treat with Copper-
        Safe. Make a partial water change first, before you treat, if you
        haven't done so recently. Remove carbon from filter and keep lights
        turned off. Ray
        \
        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Lyndsay"
        <littlelasgirl@h...> wrote:
        >
        > My betta used to be quite an active fella but for the last few days
        > he has been resting at the bottom or in his floating plant. He
        still
        > eats normally and sometimes he swims around like usual but he is
        > getting more and more lethargic. He has been like this for about 6
        > days now. I have been checking his body for any spots or rotting
        but
        > there was nothing that I could see until today. I checked him today
        > and found he had tiny gold spots attached to him, like gold dust.
        It
        > is mainly on his head. Is this velvet? What should I do to treat
        it?
        > I feed him one pellet (Penn-Plax Pro Balance Betta Food) in the
        > morning and one at night aswell as freeze dried bloodworms once or
        > twice a week instead of the pellet. He eats hungrily, jumping out
        of
        > the water to get the food. The tank is kept at 26 degrees C.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8078 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: Lethargic betta with a gold dust (still eating)
        In double-checking your post, I note that you could (should) raise
        the temperature up to somewhere between 28o C and 29o C. Your 26o C
        is fine for normal Betta maintenance, but the cure will be more
        effective in warmer conditions. Ray
        \
        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Lyndsay"
        <littlelasgirl@h...> wrote:
        >
        > My betta used to be quite an active fella but for the last few days
        > he has been resting at the bottom or in his floating plant. He
        still
        > eats normally and sometimes he swims around like usual but he is
        > getting more and more lethargic. He has been like this for about 6
        > days now. I have been checking his body for any spots or rotting
        but
        > there was nothing that I could see until today. I checked him today
        > and found he had tiny gold spots attached to him, like gold dust.
        It
        > is mainly on his head. Is this velvet? What should I do to treat
        it?
        > I feed him one pellet (Penn-Plax Pro Balance Betta Food) in the
        > morning and one at night aswell as freeze dried bloodworms once or
        > twice a week instead of the pellet. He eats hungrily, jumping out
        of
        > the water to get the food. The tank is kept at 26 degrees C.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8079 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        This stench you smell from a stagnant filter is the result of
        anaerobic bacteria -- hydrogen and methane gases -- both highly
        poisonous to fish. Ray
        \
        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
        j.pascavage@c... wrote:
        > Neglecting a filter, including turning it off, can cause a
        terrible stench in time. Never had it analysed, but it can't ALLbe
        good.
        > JoeP
        >
        > -------------- Original message --------------
        > I have turned off my filter during a water change and forgot to
        plug it back in for 2 or 3 days. I didn't have any problems the two
        times that has happened, but I would never leave it off for more than
        a few hours on purpose. In fact, I quit turning my filter off.
        >
        > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
        >
        > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        > Nitrogen Cycle
        > About my tanks:
        > 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        > -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3
        juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java
        ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power
        filter.
        > 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        > -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        > -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        > -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-
        15 power filter.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
        thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8080 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: Fish with a red sore
        If I'm reading your post correctly (and I'm not quite sure), it
        appears as if you introduced the two new guppies into your tank after
        a quarantine period of 3 days (?). As you apparently just found out,
        a quarantine period should be much longer than this to properly
        observe and examine new fish for possible problems, even if you held
        them for slightly more than that period. There are many possible
        latent diseases which may not manifest themselves until a much longer
        time. Ideally, many seasoned aquarists quarantine for at least a
        month to make sure that new fish are alright before putting them with
        their established fish (this is the reasoning behind quarantining
        them). Many of us are too impatient to wait that long, but fish
        should be quarantined preferably for a period of about 3 weeks, or at
        the very least 10 to 14 days, if we really want to be sure of not
        introducing something undesireable, or are at all suspect of
        something. Most of us however, introduce new fish to the main tank
        the same day, after acclimating, usually (and fortunately) with
        little or no problems, but that is actually taking a chance no matter
        how slim. Ray
        \
        --- In
        FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "mommy2acdhsurvivor"
        <CK147@H...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello,
        > I just introduced 2 new guppies into my tank, they showed no signs
        > of any illnesses while in quarentine but now 3 days later after
        being
        > in the main tank I have noticed one of them has a red spot on top of
        > his head closer to his eye. it looks like when you get a blood
        blister
        > under your skin (it's not raised just red) is this maybe from the
        > other fish attacking him, or is it maybe some disease and he should
        be
        > taken out of the tank? any info thanks
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8081 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Quarantine Question
        I only have the one 20 gallon tank.  What should I do when adding new fish?  What size tank would be necessary as a quarantine tank and how would one go about setting it up - equipment, cycling, etc?  I'm four weeks into cycling at this point with very high nitrites.  The fish store I buy from has wonderfully healthy fish and very clean and uncrowded tanks, so I do feel confident it my purchases.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------

        If I'm reading your post correctly (and I'm not quite sure), it
        appears as if you introduced the two new guppies into your tank after
        a quarantine period of 3 days (?).  As you apparently just found out,
        a quarantine period should be much longer than this to properly
        observe and examine new fish for possible problems, even if you held
        them for slightly more than that period.  There are many possible
        latent diseases which may not manifest themselves until a much longer
        time.  Ideally, many seasoned aquarists quarantine for at least a
        month to make sure that new fish are alright before putting them with
        their established fish (this is the reasoning behind quarantining
        them).  Many of us are too impatient to wait that long, but fish
        should be quarantined preferably for a period of about 3 weeks, or at
        the very least 10 to 14 days, if we really want to be sure of not
        introducing something undesireable, or are at all suspect of
        something.  Most of us however, introduce new fish to the main tank
        the same day, after acclimating, usually (and fortunately) with
        little or no problems, but that is actually taking a chance no matter
        how slim.  Ray                                                    
        \                                                                    
        --- In
        FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "mommy2acdhsurvivor"
        <CK147@H...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello,
        >   I just introduced 2 new guppies into my tank, they showed no signs
        > of any illnesses while in quarentine but now 3 days later after
        being
        > in the main tank I have noticed one of them has a red spot on top of
        > his head closer to his eye. it looks like when you get a blood
        blister
        > under your skin (it's not raised just red) is this maybe from the
        > other fish attacking him, or is it maybe some disease and he should
        be
        > taken out of the tank? any info thanks





        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8082 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: water change directions
        Could someone please go over step by step instructions regarding a water change?  My setup is a 20 gallon tank, filter hangs on side of tank, a heater/thermometer with suction cups that hangs on the glas of the tank, tank cover with light and a decoration with an air pump.  What do I turn off?  Do I take out the decorations?
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8083 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: Quarantine Question
        As pointed out, most people do not bother (or know about)
        quarantining their new fish, so you don't need to if you don't want
        to, especially if you're confident of your source. However, as also
        pointed out, we are always taking a chance (anything can happen) with
        not quarantining them, although we usually get away with it. Mostly,
        quarantining is done when there are rare or more valuable fish
        involved where it cannot be afforded to take the chance of infecting
        and/or losing them. This is not to say that all fish should not be
        valued. If so inclined to set up a quarantine tank, a small 2 1/2 to
        5 gallon tank would suffice (they both cost about the same). Cycling
        can be started by using half of your aquarium water and half new
        water. A small inside box filter is adaquate, using the same air
        supply as your aquarium. You don't even need gravel or plants as its
        only a temporary environment for the new fish. You will of course
        need a heater, but do not really need a light (just a cover). As to
        the high nitrites in your present aquarium, this should start
        tapering off very soon as it generally takes only a maximum of six
        weeks to cycle entirely. In the meantime, you can make larger or
        more frequent water changes if you feel your fish are in danger.
        Ray
        \
        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
        angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
        > I only have the one 20 gallon tank. What should I do when adding
        new fish? What size tank would be necessary as a quarantine tank and
        how would one go about setting it up - equipment, cycling, etc? I'm
        four weeks into cycling at this point with very high nitrites. The
        fish store I buy from has wonderfully healthy fish and very clean and
        uncrowded tanks, so I do feel confident it my purchases.
        >
        > -------------- Original message --------------
        >
        > If I'm reading your post correctly (and I'm not quite sure), it
        > appears as if you introduced the two new guppies into your tank
        after
        > a quarantine period of 3 days (?). As you apparently just found
        out,
        > a quarantine period should be much longer than this to properly
        > observe and examine new fish for possible problems, even if you
        held
        > them for slightly more than that period. There are many possible
        > latent diseases which may not manifest themselves until a much
        longer
        > time. Ideally, many seasoned aquarists quarantine for at least a
        > month to make sure that new fish are alright before putting them
        with
        > their established fish (this is the reasoning behind quarantining
        > them). Many of us are too impatient to wait that long, but fish
        > should be quarantined preferably for a period of about 3 weeks, or
        at
        > the very least 10 to 14 days, if we really want to be sure of not
        > introducing something undesireable, or are at all suspect of
        > something. Most of us however, introduce new fish to the main tank
        > the same day, after acclimating, usually (and fortunately) with
        > little or no problems, but that is actually taking a chance no
        matter
        > how slim. Ray
        >
        \
        > --- In
        >
        FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "mommy2acdhsurvivor"
        > <CK147@H...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello,
        > > I just introduced 2 new guppies into my tank, they showed no
        signs
        > > of any illnesses while in quarentine but now 3 days later after
        > being
        > > in the main tank I have noticed one of them has a red spot on top
        of
        > > his head closer to his eye. it looks like when you get a blood
        > blister
        > > under your skin (it's not raised just red) is this maybe from the
        > > other fish attacking him, or is it maybe some disease and he
        should
        > be
        > > taken out of the tank? any info thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
        thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8084 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: water change directions
        Generally, most hobbyists change between 1/4 and 1/3 of their tank
        each week. For you this means of course changing between 5 (if
        sparsely stocked) and almost 7 gallons. Your filter should be shut
        off for these few minutes so as not to damage it. It appears that
        you have a submersible heater; this should be positioned horizontally
        nearer the bottom of the tank. No need to unplug it as long as its
        not exposed during water changing. If the heater is not submersible,
        you need to unplug that as well. No need to take out the decoration
        though. The water should be drawn from near the bottom of the tank
        with an effort to draw up any debris. Actual gravel vacuuming need
        only be done once a month. The replacement water should be as close
        to the tank temperature as possible, with dechlorinater added
        preferably before you add the new water to the tank. If you're
        afraid of disturbing the gravel and/or plantings when adding the new
        water, you can temporarily use a saucer placed on the gravel to
        prevent this as you add the new water. Not much to it. Ray
        \
        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
        angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
        > Could someone please go over step by step instructions regarding a
        water change? My setup is a 20 gallon tank, filter hangs on side of
        tank, a heater/thermometer with suction cups that hangs on the glas
        of the tank, tank cover with light and a decoration with an air
        pump. What do I turn off? Do I take out the decorations?
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8085 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
        I can remove the filter pad but the carbon is inside it, I buy them
        that way. I don't add any extra carbon. So yes I can remove the filter
        pad from the filter..

        > It's not a problem to turn off the filter to remove the carbon,
        if you must. What I can't understand is why you can't remove the carbon?
        > If there's a medium in the filter that houses nitro-related
        bacteria, that can be removed, you could place it in another,
        non-carbonized filter, but then you said the carbon is 'fixed' into a
        hang-on filter (then I suppose the bacteria-laden filter-medium can't
        be removed either), and I've never seen anything like that.
        > Joe P
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8086 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: Fish with a red sore
        No they where in quarantine for 2 weeks but had been introduced into
        the main tank 3 days ago.
        > If I'm reading your post correctly (and I'm not quite sure), it
        > appears as if you introduced the two new guppies into your tank after
        > a quarantine period of 3 days (?). As you apparently just found out,
        > a quarantine period should be much longer than this to properly
        > observe and examine new fish for possible problems, even if you held
        > them for slightly more than that period. There are many possible
        > latent diseases which may not manifest themselves until a much longer
        > time. Ideally, many seasoned aquarists quarantine for at least a
        > month to make sure that new fish are alright before putting them with
        > their established fish (this is the reasoning behind quarantining
        > them). Many of us are too impatient to wait that long, but fish
        > should be quarantined preferably for a period of about 3 weeks, or at
        > the very least 10 to 14 days, if we really want to be sure of not
        > introducing something undesireable, or are at all suspect of
        > something. Most of us however, introduce new fish to the main tank
        > the same day, after acclimating, usually (and fortunately) with
        > little or no problems, but that is actually taking a chance no matter
        > how slim. Ray
        > \
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8087 From: photo_muse Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory Cat Questions
        Hi Paul!

        << it sounds like nitrate posioning to me....what was the nitrate
        level in the tank? you existing fish have probably been exposed
        slowly to the build up, if that is the problem, and would therefore
        not be having a problem.>>

        It might be a build up of PH, instead/too. (I went and got a PH
        testing kit, so I could test that, too.) I'm not sure about
        nitrates ... I didn't realize until just now when I went to put in
        the test results that you could test for them. I guess I need to go
        get another test kit, ehthis morning are below:

        1. ammonia ---- 0 ppm or *very* slightly higher
        2. nitrite ---- 0 ppm
        3. nitrate ---- don't know yet
        4. ph --------- 8.3
        5. temp ------- 80 degrees
        6. GH --------- 250 ppm

        Our water here in Utah is pretty hard. I can ask at the pet stores
        if they soften the water for the fish, but I'd be willing to be that
        they don't.

        I was going to see if I could get something to lower the PH ... can
        lowering the PH with chemicals hurt the fish?

        The third cory cat was dead this morning. The last one seems
        perfectly healthy/happy.

        Do you know how social they are?

        Thanks!

        Peggy :)
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8088 From: Ben Noreau Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: water change directions
        Hello,

        I just wanted to say thanks for the info and
        thanks for asking the question. I am still a newbie
        and I thought that i was informed enough about the
        water changes and didnt feel the need to ask about
        them. I learned something new. Thanks again.

        Ben


        =====



        Ben


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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8089 From: paul helms Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory Cat Questions
        cori's are extremely social, but if you buy a few of
        varying kinds they will school with the same colors
        rather than in a large group. ph is not a fish
        killer, and 8.3 is not drastically out of line. if it
        was salt water it would be perfect. nitrates should
        be your #1 concern as it is the culmination of the
        nitrogen cycle. it is great to have 0 nitrite and
        ammonia, but knowing how much residual is there (ie
        nitrate) s very important. hardness is also not that
        important as you are most likely dealing with fram
        raised or privately bred stock. you don't have wild
        fish that require softer water. it is benneficial to
        have the proper hardness for a given species when
        breeding, but when creating a community you may find
        that you have varying needs...so in all seriousness
        hardness is not that important. neither is ph, only
        drastic changes in it are really inherently (sp) bad.
        once your nitrates and illnesses are under control you
        can focus on slowly lowering your ph if necessary
        ...but don't do it too rapidly. in genral it is a
        good idead to maintain the tank in the mid to upper
        70's as well. you may be higher for treatments..but i
        am not sure.
        paul
        --- photo_muse <photo_muse@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > Hi Paul!
        >
        > << it sounds like nitrate posioning to me....what
        > was the nitrate
        > level in the tank? you existing fish have probably
        > been exposed
        > slowly to the build up, if that is the problem, and
        > would therefore
        > not be having a problem.>>
        >
        > It might be a build up of PH, instead/too. (I went
        > and got a PH
        > testing kit, so I could test that, too.) I'm not
        > sure about
        > nitrates ... I didn't realize until just now when I
        > went to put in
        > the test results that you could test for them. I
        > guess I need to go
        > get another test kit, ehthis morning are below:
        >
        > 1. ammonia ---- 0 ppm or *very* slightly higher
        > 2. nitrite ---- 0 ppm
        > 3. nitrate ---- don't know yet
        > 4. ph --------- 8.3
        > 5. temp ------- 80 degrees
        > 6. GH --------- 250 ppm
        >
        > Our water here in Utah is pretty hard. I can ask at
        > the pet stores
        > if they soften the water for the fish, but I'd be
        > willing to be that
        > they don't.
        >
        > I was going to see if I could get something to lower
        > the PH ... can
        > lowering the PH with chemicals hurt the fish?
        >
        > The third cory cat was dead this morning. The last
        > one seems
        > perfectly healthy/happy.
        >
        > Do you know how social they are?
        >
        > Thanks!
        >
        > Peggy :)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8090 From: paul helms Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] water change directions
        i would say follow rays directions, but my input would
        be smaller changes if that frequent of 5-10%
        PAUL
        --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

        > Could someone please go over step by step
        > instructions regarding a water change? My setup is
        > a 20 gallon tank, filter hangs on side of tank, a
        > heater/thermometer with suction cups that hangs on
        > the glas of the tank, tank cover with light and a
        > decoration with an air pump. What do I turn off?
        > Do I take out the decorations?




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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8091 From: lorivs2004 Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: newbie with a fur problem
        Hi All,
        Just joined the group and am excited about it. Nice to talk to folks
        who share the same interest. I do have a question. I am having a
        problem with fur that is growing on my gravel. When I take it out its
        a orange brown color. I have an aqua clear filter as well as a
        undergravel filter. I do regular water changes, probably not as often
        as I should (I hate admiting that). When I stir up the fur it floats
        all over the tank. Its horrible. I like a nice tank and this stuff is
        making me crazy.

        thanks
        Lori
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8092 From: Steve Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] water change directions
        Be prepared before you start.

        You'll need:

        "aged" water
        a siphon, preferably one with a "gravel cleaner" end
        an empty bucket or more
        depending on your filter, filter media
        towels
        a scraper

        The aged water is water that has been allowed to sit for a time, and ha bee
        treated with water conditioner to rid it of chlorine or chloramines. It also
        allows the water to be at least room temperature. In most cases, this is
        sufficient temperature to place in your tank. If you wish, you can use a
        heater to bring it right up to the temperature of the tank--with some fish,
        this is necessary.

        If you have any algae growing on the glass, you may want to use the scraper
        now to clean it off. I generally use a single edged razor to do this, but
        watch out for the silicone seems. Their integrity is vital to your tank, and
        you don't want to slice any of it while cleaning. There are other scrapers
        on the market that you may wish to use, but I cannot recommend one off hand
        as I always have used the razor. Most of the algae will be caught up in the
        water change or the filter, unless you have an extraordinary amount. The
        razor is also good to remove any lime lines that might be present. If there
        is a lime deposit, your water may be harder than you think, and you may want
        to consider keeping fish with a requirement for harder water.

        To do the water change, place the siphon in the tank and start it. You will
        want to siphon off no more than 10% of the water, unless there are
        circumstances that dictate otherwise (more or less). As you are siphoning
        the water, use the wide end of the siphon to clean the gravel, pushing it
        into the gravel. Clean no more than one quarter of the gravel bed at a time.
        You may wish to move any decorations you have at this time, to reach the
        gravel under them, or not. It really depends on your tank, the type of
        decoration, and your personal preference. A lot of species are territorial
        to some extent and moving stuff like this disrupts the territories that may
        have been established, and fish may need to establish new territories due to
        the movement of their markers. If you wish to remove algae from them, remove
        them after the siphoning, and scrub them in the old tank water. Then replace
        them in the tank in the same relative position. I've never really found it
        necessary to move decoration other than to establish new territories when
        adding new fish, or redesigning an active tank.

        You may need to shut down the filter during this operation, as it may lose
        its siphon during this period. Once you have the water out, check your
        filter and clean or replace the media as needed. If you are cleaning filter
        sponges, just use the freshly removed water as a bath, and just rub and
        squeeze out all the detritus (gunk) the sponge has trapped. Put the filter
        back together and refill the tank with the aged water. Pour the water in
        slowly so as not to disturb the gravel to any great extent. Your fish may
        play in the stream of the water being added. That is OK.

        Start the filter and you should be good to go.

        Remove your equipment and wipe up and spills with the towel.

        You may wish to clean at least the outside front glass at this time. I
        generally just use the water available for this. You definitely do not want
        to use your normal household glass cleaner as it contains bad stuff for the
        fish. There is at least one glass cleaner made specifically for aquariums,
        but the name escapes me know, but I know it does work.
        Put away all your tools, sit down and enjoy the tank.

        \\Steve//

        -----Original Message-----
        From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 7:25 AM
        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [AquaticLife] water change directions


        Could someone please go over step by step instructions regarding a water
        change? My setup is a 20 gallon tank, filter hangs on side of tank, a
        heater/thermometer with suction cups that hangs on the glas of the tank,
        tank cover with light and a decoration with an air pump. What do I turn
        off? Do I take out the decorations?
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8093 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting, 2/5/2005, 6:30 pm
        Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
        Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting

        Saturday February 5, 2005
        6:30 pm - 8:30 pm
        This event repeats on the first Saturday of every month.
        The next reminder for this event will be sent in 7 days, 4 minutes.

        Event Location: MEETING LOCATION: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Ave., San Jose CA, USA
        Street: MEETING LOCATION: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Ave.
        City, State, Zip: San Jose, CA

        Notes:
        Silicon Valley Aquarium Society meetings are held the first Saturday of every month in San Jose. See http://www.svas.info for more information

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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8094 From: Steve Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory Cat Questions
        Water chemistry is something you really don't want to mess with. Most water
        that is hard has a high pH. Most water that is soft has a low pH. High and
        low being relative terms here. If you attempt to lower the hardness, it does
        not necessarily mean that the pH will follow, and the converse is also true.

        Lowering the pH can be a tricky business. All water has a certain buffering
        capacity, which helps to maintain the pH. You can try to lower the pH, and
        you add the chemical, but the pH remains the same. So, you add more, and the
        pH remains the same. Repeat this cycle enough, either with the pH remaining
        static or reducing slightly, the buffer will finally break. the result can
        be the pH you wish, or it can drop frighteningly to a too low, for our
        purposes, level.

        Most fish, however, can survive in a wide range of conditions, particularly
        the ones who have not read the books <g>. The key word here is survive. If
        you wish to have a thriving aquarium, however, you should choose the fish
        that will do well in your water conditions. For example, most livebearers
        would love to live in your water. Rift Lake cichlids would also doe well.

        Do the research, and then buy the fish that interest you and can thrive in
        your water conditions.

        A hint about pH. Take several readings over the course of a day. You will
        probably find a variation in the pH, with it being lowest in the morning,
        and higher in the evening, especially in a planted tank. This is a function
        of the amount of CO2 in the water.

        So, what did your cories in? Without any visible physical evidence, it is
        hard to say. Yes, they are a soft water, low pH fish. However, if they have
        been previously acclimated to the type of water you have, that may not be a
        problem. If they haven't, then the stress of several transfers into water of
        varying quality over a short period of time may have done them in. As
        previously mentioned a high nitrate may have contributed to their demise.
        Internal parasites may be a cause or a contributing factor.

        Take the loss. Don't fret over it too much. Do some reading, and get fish
        more compatible with your water and you should do fine.

        \\Steve//

        -----Original Message-----
        From: photo_muse [mailto:photo_muse@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 12:59 PM
        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory Cat Questions





        Hi Paul!

        << it sounds like nitrate posioning to me....what was the nitrate
        level in the tank? you existing fish have probably been exposed
        slowly to the build up, if that is the problem, and would therefore
        not be having a problem.>>

        It might be a build up of PH, instead/too. (I went and got a PH
        testing kit, so I could test that, too.) I'm not sure about
        nitrates ... I didn't realize until just now when I went to put in
        the test results that you could test for them. I guess I need to go
        get another test kit, ehthis morning are below:

        1. ammonia ---- 0 ppm or *very* slightly higher
        2. nitrite ---- 0 ppm
        3. nitrate ---- don't know yet
        4. ph --------- 8.3
        5. temp ------- 80 degrees
        6. GH --------- 250 ppm

        Our water here in Utah is pretty hard. I can ask at the pet stores
        if they soften the water for the fish, but I'd be willing to be that
        they don't.

        I was going to see if I could get something to lower the PH ... can
        lowering the PH with chemicals hurt the fish?

        The third cory cat was dead this morning. The last one seems
        perfectly healthy/happy.

        Do you know how social they are?

        Thanks!

        Peggy :)









        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks

        Yahoo! Groups Links
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8095 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish with a red sore
            As somebody asked earlier, why can't you just cut the filter pad open and shake out the carbon.  Whisper and marinland filters both use filter cartridges that are easy to take apart, and I would think other filters would be very similar.  I really don't think it is a good idea in general to replace filter pads.  Just add a new one and keep the floss from the old one when the filter starts falling apart.  Most filters are made in a way that you think you have to buy a new one, but you really just have to cut it apart to remove or change the carbon.
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        -------Original Message-------
        I can remove the filter pad but the carbon is inside it, I buy them
        that way. I don't add any extra carbon. So yes I can remove the filter
        pad from the filter..
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8096 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] water change directions
            Siphon out some portion of the water using a hose or gravel vacuum, get the correct amount of fresh water to refill the tank, add proper chloranimine or chlorine removing agents to fresh water, refill tank with fresh water.  If the heater is going to become exposed to air at any time during this process, unplug it.  This should tank no more than 15 minutes for a 20 gallon tank.
         
        Patrick, the American Fish Guy
         
        Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
        About my tanks:  
        29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
        -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
        10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
        -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
        -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
        -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
        -------Original Message-------
        Could someone please go over step by step instructions regarding a water change?  My setup is a 20 gallon tank, filter hangs on side of tank, a heater/thermometer with suction cups that hangs on the glas of the tank, tank cover with light and a decoration with an air pump.  What do I turn off?  Do I take out the decorations?
        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8097 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] newbie with a fur problem
        sounds like decaying food particles to me....vaccum your gravel while doing a water change removing as much of the "FUR" as possible. When feeding your fish feed them only as much as they will eat in 2-3 minutes. If after feeding you see food on the bottom of the tank YOU are over feeding.
        Over feeding fish kill more fish then under feeding.
         
        If anyone  else has any ideas on FUR in the tank I'd like your opinions on the subject.
         
        rob
        NE Indiana
        USa
         
         
        In a message dated 1/26/2005 8:14:52 PM Central Standard Time, lorivs2004@... writes:
        Hi All,
        Just joined the group and am excited about it. Nice to talk to folks
        who share the same interest. I do have a question. I am having a
        problem with fur that is growing on my gravel. When I take it out its
        a orange brown color. I have an aqua clear filter as well as a
        undergravel filter. I do regular water changes, probably not as often
        as I should (I hate admiting that). When I stir up the fur it floats
        all over the tank. Its horrible. I like a nice tank and this stuff is
        making me crazy.

        thanks
        Lori             
         
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8098 From: boy2coool Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Mollies and Swordtails
        Shouldn't swordtails be kept with Mollies and Guppies. I have lost all
        my swordtails in this single week. am just wondering what could be the
        reason? I have 2 small yellow Gouramis too in the same tank. They are
        very small Gouramis thats why I thought I could keep them in my
        livebearer tank. I want to know the reason why my swordtails are
        dieing, pls if somebody know reply me.
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8099 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] newbie with a fur problem
          I read in an Axelrod book that one of the least mentioned facets of fish-death is the accumulation of fat.
             'Tho you can underfeed/undernourish and still cause fattiness.
                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                     
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
        sounds like decaying food particles to me....vaccum your gravel while doing a water change removing as much of the "FUR" as possible. When feeding your fish feed them only as much as they will eat in 2-3 minutes. If after feeding you see food on the bottom of the tank YOU are over feeding.
        Over feeding fish kill more fish then under feeding.
         
        If anyone  else has any ideas on FUR in the tank I'd like your opinions on the subject.
         
        rob
        NE Indiana
        USa
         
         
        In a message dated 1/26/2005 8:14:52 PM Central Standard Time, lorivs2004@... writes:
        Hi All,
        Just joined the group and am excited about it. Nice to talk to folks
        who share the same interest. I do have a question. I am having a
        problem with fur that is growing on my gravel. When I take it out its
        a orange brown color. I have an aqua clear filter as well as a
        undergravel filter. I do regular water changes, probably not as often
        as I should (I hate admiting that). When I stir up the fur it floats
        all over the tank. Its horrible. I like a nice tank and this stuff is
        making me crazy.

        thanks
        Lori             
         
         


        please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8100 From: Amalthea Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mollies and Swordtails
        i have 3 male pineapple swordtails living very happily in a semi
        aggressive tank, mostly with cichlids. it's possible that it's the
        gouramis, but not a definite.
        amalthea
        Get em' while they're cheap!
        Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the
        Basement....
        http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
        On Jan 27, 2005, at 12:55 AM, boy2coool wrote:

        >
        > Shouldn't swordtails be kept with Mollies and Guppies. I have lost all
        > my swordtails in this single week. am just wondering what could be the
        > reason? I have 2 small yellow Gouramis too in the same tank. They are
        > very small Gouramis thats why I thought I could keep them in my
        > livebearer tank. I want to know the reason why my swordtails are
        > dieing, pls if somebody know reply me.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
        >  
        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >  
        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        > Service.
        >
        >
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8101 From: paul helms Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mollies and Swordtails
        depends on water and other factors...swordtails are
        notorious fin nippers and may be pissing off the
        gourami...btw are they dwarf or what type are they?
        --- boy2coool <boy2coool@...> wrote:

        >
        > Shouldn't swordtails be kept with Mollies and
        > Guppies. I have lost all
        > my swordtails in this single week. am just wondering
        > what could be the
        > reason? I have 2 small yellow Gouramis too in the
        > same tank. They are
        > very small Gouramis thats why I thought I could keep
        > them in my
        > livebearer tank. I want to know the reason why my
        > swordtails are
        > dieing, pls if somebody know reply me.
        >
        >
        >
        >





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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8102 From: Colleen Date: 1/26/2005
        Subject: clown fish
        Attachments :
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8103 From: boy2coool Date: 1/27/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mollies and Swordtails
          I am not sure i think they are dwarf Gouramis. They are yellowish in
          color and are very small in size. So you say the Gouramis might have
          killed the red swordtails?

          Actually i put the small Gouramis first in another tank which has 10
          Gold fish and one 3 spot Gourami. I saw the 3 spot Gourami chasing and
          harassing the two small Gouramis. Thats why I put them in the tank
          with mollies and swordtails.


          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
          <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
          > depends on water and other factors...swordtails are
          > notorious fin nippers and may be pissing off the
          > gourami...btw are they dwarf or what type are they?
          > --- boy2coool <boy2coool@y...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > Shouldn't swordtails be kept with Mollies and
          > > Guppies. I have lost all
          > > my swordtails in this single week. am just wondering
          > > what could be the
          > > reason? I have 2 small yellow Gouramis too in the
          > > same tank. They are
          > > very small Gouramis thats why I thought I could keep
          > > them in my
          > > livebearer tank. I want to know the reason why my
          > > swordtails are
          > > dieing, pls if somebody know reply me.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
          > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8104 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 1/27/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mollies and Swordtails

          Firstly, Goldfish and Gouramis are not to be mixed. Former is a coldwater fish and later a tropical fish both with very different temperature requirements. Though they can survive in each others temperature range but it is unnatural to either of them.

           

          I would doubt that gouramis could get aggressive enough to kill swordtails (I have seen things the other way round a few times). How long has the tank been setup? Did you get the water tested at the fish store? It is also possible that the swords were a bad stock (very common in livebearers). Also, what temperature do you maintain the tank at? Hope not a cold water tank.

           

          Mollies and sword tails can be mixed but keep in mind that males of both these species are regarded as semi aggressive and can fight with each other. It is very rare that the fight inflicts a serious damage to the other fish other then tearing of the fins and a couple of scales missing.

           

          Nim

           

           


          From: boy2coool [mailto:boy2coool@...]
          Sent: 27 January 2005 14:13
          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mollies and Swordtails

           


          I am not sure i think they are dwarf Gouramis. They are yellowish in
          color and are very small in size. So you say the Gouramis might have
          killed the red swordtails?

          Actually i put the small Gouramis first in another tank which has 10
          Gold fish and one 3 spot Gourami. I saw the 3 spot Gourami chasing and
          harassing the two small Gouramis. Thats why I put them in the tank
          with mollies and swordtails.


          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com , paul helms
          <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
          > depends on water and other factors...swordtails are
          > notorious fin nippers and may be pissing off the
          > gourami...btw are they dwarf or what type are they?
          > --- boy2coool <boy2coool@y...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > Shouldn't swordtails be kept with Mollies and
          > > Guppies. I have lost all
          > > my swordtails in this single week. am just wondering
          > > what could be the
          > > reason? I have 2 small yellow Gouramis too in the
          > > same tank. They are
          > > very small Gouramis thats why I thought I could keep
          > > them in my
          > > livebearer tank. I want to know the reason why my
          > > swordtails are
          > > dieing, pls if somebody know reply me.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >      
          >            
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
          > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail





          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8105 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/27/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mollies and Swordtails
          I've got 3 Red Swordtails and 1 Peppermint Swordtail, living in my semi-aggressive tank (2 angels, 2 giant danios, 1 opaline gourami, 2 bleeding heart tetras, 2 red-eye tetras, 2 CAE's) - all without issues.
           
          What did they die from - or did they just show up dead in the morning or something?  If so...what are your water conditions (ammonia, PH, nitrite, nitrates).
           
          Al
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8106 From: photo_muse Date: 1/27/2005
          Subject: Cory Cat Questions - Social Fish
          << cori's are extremely social, but if you buy a few of varying kinds
          they will school with the same colors rather than in a large group>>

          Will corydoras paleatus and corydoras aeneus school together? Or is
          it an illusion?

          << hardness is also not thatimportant as you are most likely dealing
          with fram raised or privately bred stock. you don't have wild fish
          that require softer water. >>

          Good deal, that's what I'd heard/read!

          I'd be happy for any other cory cat tips you might have!

          Thanks!

          Peggy :)
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8107 From: photo_muse Date: 1/27/2005
          Subject: Cory Cat Questions - Water Chemistry
          << For example, most livebearers would love to live in your water.>>

          <g> Must be why the mollies reproduce so frighteningly well!

          << Do the research, and then buy the fish that interest you and can
          thrive in your water conditions. >>

          According to the research I did before buying them, corydoras
          paleatus and corydoras aeneus do okay in harder water, if raised
          and/or acclimatized to that. I have a friend with a HUGE tank ...
          and a bunch of really big cories to go in it ... they always seemed
          active and happy. Anyway, I didn't want the last little guy to die
          of loneliness, so got my "replacement" fish for those that died last
          night. I tested the water in the bag ... the PH level was about the
          same as mine. Very hard water in Utah!

          << So, what did your cories in? >>
          << it sounds like nitrate posioning to me....>>

          Nitrate poisoning was probably the culprit! I bought a nitrate
          testing kit last night ... if I was reading the card correctly (not
          the easiest thing sometimes), the nitrate levels were up around
          180!! We did a massive water changing and when we put the fish back
          in, the nitrates were at 10 or less. :) This morning, everyone seems
          to be alive and well. (Even the upside down catfish who managed to
          be left out of water for about five minutes, due to hanging on to the
          aquarium hideout when I took it out!)

          Thanks so much for the heads up on nitrates!! I will definitely keep
          an eye on those levels now, too. If you have any advice on keeping
          the levels down, I'm all ears! :)

          Peggy
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8108 From: Cory Biggers Date: 1/27/2005
          Subject: Introduction
          Greetings,

          Newbie here from Austin, TX. I'm new to all things fishy and have
          caught the bug in a bad way. I have 3 5 gallon tanks (1- emerald
          betta, 3 danio glofish, 1 unknow algae dude) (2- red crowntail betta,
          2 pair endlers & 3 fry, 2 rainbow long fin) (3- 1 blue butterfly
          betta, 1 frog, and 2 killifish which I just removed becaue they tried
          to eat the betta! so mad!!!)

          I'd love to get some advice from you all on what to stock my new tank
          with. I have a 60 (freshwater, probably 1/2 tap, 1/2 R/O....not sure
          yet) gallon tank getting set up today, and once it is cycled I'm not
          sure what to put in it! I don't want it to be species specific, I'd
          love to see lots of color, maybe a schooling fish, and fish that are
          unique/unusual/or hard to find. I love unique things!

          Nice to meet you all, and thanks in advance for any suggestions!
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8109 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 1/27/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction
          I'm a huge fan of African Cichlids - could do a nice setup of Haps/Peacocks in your 60 gallon....
           
          Al
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8110 From: joequality1980 Date: 1/27/2005
          Subject: Re: Mollies and Swordtails
          It shouldnt be the gouramis. I have a very disgruntled gold gourami
          who thinks he's cock of the walk and chases around the other
          gouramis and this random large goldfish (dont ask why I have him)
          relentlessly, yet he leaves my swords completely alone.

          Its probably the fish -- maybe sick from the store or tired of life


          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "boy2coool"
          <boy2coool@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Shouldn't swordtails be kept with Mollies and Guppies. I have lost
          all
          > my swordtails in this single week. am just wondering what could be
          the
          > reason? I have 2 small yellow Gouramis too in the same tank. They
          are
          > very small Gouramis thats why I thought I could keep them in my
          > livebearer tank. I want to know the reason why my swordtails are
          > dieing, pls if somebody know reply me.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8111 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/27/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory Cat Questions - Water Chemistry
          Weekly waterchanges of 10-20% vacuum the gravel while doing this. Make sure to get down in the gravel/sand to get the deep down poo poo or decaying foods.
          Most bacteria are in your filter, so vacuuming your gravel shouldn't cause that much disruption.
           
           
          In a message dated 1/27/2005 10:37:01 AM Central Standard Time, photo_muse@... writes:
          Nitrate poisoning was probably the culprit!  I bought a nitrate
          testing kit last night ... if I was reading the card correctly (not
          the easiest thing sometimes), the nitrate levels were up around
          180!!  We did a massive water changing and when we put the fish back
          in, the nitrates were at 10 or less. :)  This morning, everyone seems
          to be alive and well.  (Even the upside down catfish who managed to
          be left out of water for about five minutes, due to hanging on to the
          Aquarium hideout when I took it out!) 

          Thanks so much for the heads up on nitrates!!  I will definitely keep
          an eye on those levels now, too.  If you have any advice on keeping
          the levels down, I'm all ears!  :)

          Peggy
           
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8112 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/27/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory Cat Questions - Social Fish
          Mixed cories will school together but you will notice they will seperate into there own cliches.
           
          your salt and peppers( C. Paleatus) will have there own cliche while the greens
          (C. aeneus) will have there own cliche.
           
          I suggest joining Corydoras World message board forum. They have some great people who loike cory cats and some of the top breeders in the U.K. also pop in and out and are active on the forum now and then.
          I'd also suggest  for refrence...........  http://www.scotcat.com/       http://www.corycats.com/ 
           
           
          rob
          NE Indiana
          USa
           
          In a message dated 1/27/2005 10:40:00 AM Central Standard Time, photo_muse@... writes:
          << cori's are extremely social, but if you buy a few of varying kinds
          they will school with the same colors rather than in a large group>>

          Will corydoras paleatus and corydoras aeneus school together?  Or is
          it an illusion?

          << hardness is also not thatimportant as you are most likely dealing
          with fram raised or privately bred stock. you don't have wild fish
          that require softer water. >>

          Good deal, that's what I'd heard/read!

          I'd be happy for any other cory cat tips you might have!

          Thanks!

          Peggy :)
           
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8113 From: paul helms Date: 1/27/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollies and Swordtails
          isn't looking that way if they are dying
          --- joequality1980 <crazy.joe.walcek@...> wrote:

          >
          > It shouldnt be the gouramis. I have a very
          > disgruntled gold gourami
          > who thinks he's cock of the walk and chases around
          > the other
          > gouramis and this random large goldfish (dont ask
          > why I have him)
          > relentlessly, yet he leaves my swords completely
          > alone.
          >
          > Its probably the fish -- maybe sick from the store
          > or tired of life
          >
          >
          > --- In
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
          > "boy2coool"
          > <boy2coool@y...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Shouldn't swordtails be kept with Mollies and
          > Guppies. I have lost
          > all
          > > my swordtails in this single week. am just
          > wondering what could be
          > the
          > > reason? I have 2 small yellow Gouramis too in the
          > same tank. They
          > are
          > > very small Gouramis thats why I thought I could
          > keep them in my
          > > livebearer tank. I want to know the reason why my
          > swordtails are
          > > dieing, pls if somebody know reply me.
          >
          >
          >
          >




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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8114 From: paul helms Date: 1/27/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mollies and Swordtails
          gourami range from complete jerk to complete
          pansies...depends n the individual fish
          --- boy2coool <boy2coool@...> wrote:

          >
          > I am not sure i think they are dwarf Gouramis. They
          > are yellowish in
          > color and are very small in size. So you say the
          > Gouramis might have
          > killed the red swordtails?
          >
          > Actually i put the small Gouramis first in another
          > tank which has 10
          > Gold fish and one 3 spot Gourami. I saw the 3 spot
          > Gourami chasing and
          > harassing the two small Gouramis. Thats why I put
          > them in the tank
          > with mollies and swordtails.
          >
          >
          > --- In
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul
          > helms
          > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
          > > depends on water and other factors...swordtails
          > are
          > > notorious fin nippers and may be pissing off the
          > > gourami...btw are they dwarf or what type are
          > they?
          > > --- boy2coool <boy2coool@y...> wrote:
          > >
          > > >
          > > > Shouldn't swordtails be kept with Mollies and
          > > > Guppies. I have lost all
          > > > my swordtails in this single week. am just
          > wondering
          > > > what could be the
          > > > reason? I have 2 small yellow Gouramis too in
          > the
          > > > same tank. They are
          > > > very small Gouramis thats why I thought I could
          > keep
          > > > them in my
          > > > livebearer tank. I want to know the reason why
          > my
          > > > swordtails are
          > > > dieing, pls if somebody know reply me.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > __________________________________
          > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
          > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
          >
          >
          >
          >




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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8115 From: paul helms Date: 1/27/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] clown fish
          looks good

          --- Colleen <alaskaicekubes@...> wrote:

          >





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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8116 From: dustinj75 Date: 1/27/2005
          Subject: Hello I a new here.
          Hello,

          I just joined this group and I can see it is a very popular place. I
          have had an aquarium for about 3 years now and I have really enjoyed
          the experience of having fish. Some fish I have kept are Bala Sharks,
          Mollies, Platys, Cory Cats, Dwarf Gouramis, and my favorite are Bala
          Sharks. Since getting into the hobby I have been reading lots on
          aqaurium fish keeping and recently I put up my own website as a source
          to find information on most aspects of the hobby. Right now it just
          covers fresh water and is very new. I update it all the time and I am
          building up a database of fish types which is able to be added to by
          anyone visiting the website I also have a forum on the website and
          invite everyone to come and participate in the forum. I have a friend
          who is a marine biologist and a fish expert so if anyone has questions
          he is someone who could give you an answer. Please visit my website at
          www.bbayaquariums.com and I will be happy to any answer questions. I
          also continue to have questions so I am sure many of you guys can
          answer some of mine.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8117 From: boy2coool Date: 1/27/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mollies and Swordtails
          Water Conditions were perfect, I changed the water a week back without
          washing the Gravel. The Red Swordtails didn't show up any signs of
          disease although but died one by one each morning.

          Now I have two put the yellow Gouramis in a separate tank because the
          other tank has a big 3 spot Gourami which chases the yellow little
          ones. I don't know what to do.

          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, alglea@a... wrote:
          > I've got 3 Red Swordtails and 1 Peppermint Swordtail, living in my
          > semi-aggressive tank (2 angels, 2 giant danios, 1 opaline gourami, 2
          bleeding heart
          > tetras, 2 red-eye tetras, 2 CAE's) - all without issues.
          >
          > What did they die from - or did they just show up dead in the
          morning or
          > something? If so...what are your water conditions (ammonia, PH,
          nitrite,
          > nitrates).
          >
          > Al
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8118 From: paul helms Date: 1/27/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mollies and Swordtails
          what are your exact water conditions?
          1. ammonia
          2. nitrite
          3. nitrate
          4. ph
          5. temp
          --- boy2coool <boy2coool@...> wrote:

          >
          > Water Conditions were perfect, I changed the water a
          > week back without
          > washing the Gravel. The Red Swordtails didn't show
          > up any signs of
          > disease although but died one by one each morning.
          >
          > Now I have two put the yellow Gouramis in a separate
          > tank because the
          > other tank has a big 3 spot Gourami which chases the
          > yellow little
          > ones. I don't know what to do.
          >
          > --- In
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
          > alglea@a... wrote:
          > > I've got 3 Red Swordtails and 1 Peppermint
          > Swordtail, living in my
          > > semi-aggressive tank (2 angels, 2 giant danios, 1
          > opaline gourami, 2
          > bleeding heart
          > > tetras, 2 red-eye tetras, 2 CAE's) - all without
          > issues.
          > >
          > > What did they die from - or did they just show up
          > dead in the
          > morning or
          > > something? If so...what are your water conditions
          > (ammonia, PH,
          > nitrite,
          > > nitrates).
          > >
          > > Al
          >
          >
          >
          >




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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8119 From: Colleen Date: 1/27/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] clown fish
          its not mine i just wish someday to have one they are so neat to watch
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: paul helms
          Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 2:54 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] clown fish

          looks good

          --- Colleen <alaskaicekubes@...> wrote:

          >



               
                     
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8120 From: paul helms Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] clown fish
          i have four right now.
          two in a 7 gallon nano reef and 2 in a 110
          gallon...soon to be a 180
          --- Colleen <alaskaicekubes@...> wrote:

          > its not mine i just wish someday to have one they
          > are so neat to watch
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: paul helms
          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 2:54 PM
          > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] clown fish
          >
          >
          > looks good
          >
          > --- Colleen <alaskaicekubes@...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
          > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
          >
          >
          > please delete this line and everything below it
          > when replying, thanks
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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          >
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          >
          >
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          >
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          > email to:
          >
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8121 From: ben_noreau Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Looking for Information
          Hello,

          I was wondering if anyone could reccomend tropical fish sites.
          Specifically what I am looking for is a site that offers pictures and
          descriptions of fish and offers what other fish would be compatible
          with them. Something such as an encyclopedia site or a catalogue site.

          I live in a very rural area and the I have learned that the
          varities offered in this area are a small representation of what is
          truely out there. I have found a reputable vendor that will special
          order for me but I am not sure what to order.

          I have a book about aquarium fish and once again the number of
          fish in the book is a small representation of what is available. Also
          the illustrations do not capture the beauty of the fish.

          I would appreciate any help, thanks in advance.

          Ben
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8122 From: Anne Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: musty smell
          Hi, My 10 gal. aquarium has a stale smell to the
          water. I have 3 platys in it, it has been running for
          5 weeks, and recently the ammonia has gone up but it
          is not an ammonia smell and I'm dealing with that.
          Could it be the ammonia down I'm smelling? I have
          vacumned and done a water change (recommended by
          Tetra) but the smell is still there. On the other hand
          the fish seem to be fine with it.
          Thanks
          Anne



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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8123 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] musty smell
           
          Small 10 gallon tanks require more work then a bigger tank. Weekly waterchanges should be performed with gravel vaccuming. I'd recommend getting a small outside filter for your tank and use carbon. The smell should go away within a few days.
          Anytime you have warm water in an enclosed area you will get a smell.
          Weekly waterchanges and gravel vaccuming will also help with your ammonia problems.....
          You shouldn't have to use Ammonia down or what ever you are using if you practice good husbandry on the fish tank.   
           
          my opinion
          Rob
          NE Indiana
          USa
           
           
          In a message dated 1/28/2005 10:02:21 AM Central Standard Time, md_gustoby@... writes:
          Hi, My 10 gal. aquarium has a stale smell to the
          water. I have 3 platys in it, it has been running for
          5 weeks, and recently the ammonia has gone up but it
          is not an ammonia smell and I'm dealing with that.
          Could it be the ammonia down I'm smelling? I have
          vacumned and done a water change (recommended by
          Tetra) but the smell is still there. On the other hand
          the fish seem to be fine with it.
          Thanks
          Anne
           
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8124 From: Colleen Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] clown fish
          wow thats a big tank got pics?
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: paul helms
          Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 11:35 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] clown fish

          i have four right now.
          two in a 7 gallon nano reef and 2 in a 110
          gallon...soon to be a 180
          --- Colleen <alaskaicekubes@...> wrote:

          > its not mine i just wish someday to have one they
          > are so neat to watch
          >   ----- Original Message -----
          >   From: paul helms
          >   To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >   Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 2:54 PM
          >   Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] clown fish
          >
          >
          >   looks good
          >
          >   --- Colleen <alaskaicekubes@...> wrote:
          >
          >   >
          >
          >
          >
          >        
          >              
          >   __________________________________
          >   Do you Yahoo!?
          >   Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
          >   http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
          >
          >
          >   please delete this line and everything below it
          > when replying, thanks
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          >
          >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
          >   
          >
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          >      
          >     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
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          >   
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8125 From: boy2coool Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Help Goldfish disease
          My fantail Goldfish is sick and its not taking food and the symptoms
          are like the caudal fins which is usually white in color has changed
          to a dirty color with brownish red streaks. It spends most of it's
          time down on the bottom corner of the tank. Actually two of the
          goldfishes had the same symptoms, I tried salt treatment but it didn't
          work one of them died. What could be done so that i ensure atleast i
          could save the other ones life.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8126 From: Amalthea Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help Goldfish disease
          it sounds like ammonia poisioning. the brown streaks are likely blood
          in the tail. test the water parameters and do at least a 30% water
          change. has anything changed in the tank recently? how long was the
          dead fish in the water and did anything such as a snail die before
          that?
          amalthea
          http://www.puppetterrors.com
          Don't be Afraid to Scream....
          On Jan 28, 2005, at 2:23 PM, boy2coool wrote:

          >
          > My fantail Goldfish is sick and its not taking food and the symptoms
          > are like the caudal fins which is usually white in color has changed
          > to a dirty color with brownish red streaks. It spends most of it's
          > time down on the bottom corner of the tank. Actually two of the
          > goldfishes had the same symptoms, I tried salt treatment but it didn't
          > work one of them died. What could be done so that i ensure atleast i
          > could save the other ones life.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8127 From: Larry Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Looking for Information
          try www.fishprofiles.com

          --- ben_noreau <ben_noreau@...> wrote:

          >
          > Hello,
          >
          > I was wondering if anyone could reccomend
          > tropical fish sites.
          > Specifically what I am looking for is a site that
          > offers pictures and
          > descriptions of fish and offers what other fish
          > would be compatible
          > with them. Something such as an encyclopedia site
          > or a catalogue site.
          >
          > I live in a very rural area and the I have
          > learned that the
          > varities offered in this area are a small
          > representation of what is
          > truely out there. I have found a reputable vendor
          > that will special
          > order for me but I am not sure what to order.
          >
          > I have a book about aquarium fish and once
          > again the number of
          > fish in the book is a small representation of what
          > is available. Also
          > the illustrations do not capture the beauty of the
          > fish.
          >
          > I would appreciate any help, thanks in advance.
          >
          > Ben
          >
          >
          >
          >


          __________________________________________________
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8128 From: julie_hash Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] newbie with a fur problem
          "vaccum your gravel while doing a water change removing as much of
          the "FUR" as possible. When feeding your fish feed them only as much
          as they will eat in 2-3 minutes. If after feeding you see food on the
          bottom of the tank YOU are over feeding."


          I had fur in my 55 with my oscar. I'm pretty new to the hobby, so i
          just increased my water changes & decreased the amount of food. I
          now do a 20% weekly, and i feed him twice a day in small amounts
          rather that once a day. (Messy little guy!) Besides sometime hubby
          would feed him too much, so he no longer feeds...

          I hope this helps you!

          Julie
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8129 From: Steve Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Looking for Information
          Ben,

          What book do you have? There are a lot of books out there, some very good,
          and some not so good, and everything in between. We can make some book
          recommendations for you as well.

          Everyone has their favorite sites. For a number of sites, including those
          you are looking for, and many that will take you down other paths, point
          your browser to http://www.petsforum.com/was/links.html.

          The pictures you see of fish will vary quite a bit. There are good photos
          and not so good photos. A lot of fish simply do not photograph well, and the
          camera misses some of the things that make the fish very likeable in a color
          sense, or they my be over or under emphasized. The monitor and the web also
          through in a few wrinkles. What looks good on the monitor of the person who
          designs the site, may not look so good on your monitor. The colors could be
          a bit different, where an orange may look more red or yellow than it should,
          the blue doesn't show in the same shade, etc. Compression of the photos also
          makes a difference in color as well. A photo from my digital camera may be
          over 1 megabyte in size, but to make for better viewing it is cropped and
          compressed and the DPI may be changed, so it come sin at a more manageable
          100 KB to be downloaded from a thumbnail to your machine.

          The web may be a good start, but the books and magazines are really the way
          to get to know your fish, or the fish you may want to keep. We still have a
          long way to go, despite what the pundits and optimists say, before the web
          will replace paper in the hand.

          \\Steve//

          -----Original Message-----
          From: ben_noreau [mailto:ben_noreau@...]
          Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:23 AM
          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [AquaticLife] Looking for Information




          Hello,

          I was wondering if anyone could reccomend tropical fish sites.
          Specifically what I am looking for is a site that offers pictures and
          descriptions of fish and offers what other fish would be compatible
          with them. Something such as an encyclopedia site or a catalogue site.

          I live in a very rural area and the I have learned that the
          varities offered in this area are a small representation of what is
          truely out there. I have found a reputable vendor that will special
          order for me but I am not sure what to order.

          I have a book about aquarium fish and once again the number of
          fish in the book is a small representation of what is available. Also
          the illustrations do not capture the beauty of the fish.

          I would appreciate any help, thanks in advance.

          Ben





          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks

          Yahoo! Groups Links
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8130 From: ben_noreau Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Expansion Project
          Hello,

          I purchased a new tank and I am really excited!! Unfortunatly my
          girlfriend doesnt share my enthusiasm, so that is why I am posting.

          Our Wal-Mart had to close down for 10 days due to structral
          issues with the building. They re-opened yesterday. Just for a lack
          of anything better to do (crusing wal-mart is the main attraction
          here) we stopped by to check out the fish. The associate that we know
          and trust was working. He said that since we were his best customers
          he wanted to let us know about a "special" deal. He said that he had
          (2) 55 gallon tank starter kit complete with all of the goodies that
          were on clearance. He said that they were marked at $150 and that if
          we wanted one that he would hold it for us until we could come up with
          the money due to the fact that they were buried in his area of the
          stock room and could stay there until we came in. (With the store
          closed, and just now re opening they have been inundated with
          deliveries and the stockroom is a mess).

          He also stated that had he had our number he would have called us
          to get some free fish. His supervisor told him to take what he could
          so that they wouldnt die and that they would have listed them as a
          loss. To say the least he now has our number.

          So I cant wait until next week when I can get my new tank and
          start expanding. I am going to stock it with varieties of Molly's
          swordtails, Platy's and a few tetra's (Neons and glowlights mostly).
          Also fish that will help take care of the tank will be added as well.

          Ben
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8131 From: joequality1980 Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Re: Looking for Information
          Try:

          http://www.fishbase.org/search.cfm

          btw, where do you live where Wal-Mart is the place to be?

          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "ben_noreau"
          <ben_noreau@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello,
          >
          > I was wondering if anyone could reccomend tropical fish
          sites.
          > Specifically what I am looking for is a site that offers pictures
          and
          > descriptions of fish and offers what other fish would be compatible
          > with them. Something such as an encyclopedia site or a catalogue
          site.
          >
          > I live in a very rural area and the I have learned that the
          > varities offered in this area are a small representation of what is
          > truely out there. I have found a reputable vendor that will
          special
          > order for me but I am not sure what to order.
          >
          > I have a book about aquarium fish and once again the number of
          > fish in the book is a small representation of what is available.
          Also
          > the illustrations do not capture the beauty of the fish.
          >
          > I would appreciate any help, thanks in advance.
          >
          > Ben
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8132 From: Steve Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help Goldfish disease
          Blood streaks in the fins are a bad sign in goldfish. At the least it means
          they are stressed. To adequately diagnose, or even attempt to diagnose, the
          problem, more information is needed. What is the size of the tank, what are
          your water parameters--ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, temperature. What are
          the size of the fish? What do you have for filtration? How much water do you
          change and how often. What else is in the tank besides the goldfish? Are
          there any other symptoms other than what you have already mentioned.

          The more information available, the more likely there will be a diagnosis
          that can help you.

          One thing that might be helpful is for you to do a large water change, on
          the order of 25-50%, after you get the water measurements done, which
          generally helps the fish.

          \\Steve//

          -----Original Message-----
          From: boy2coool [mailto:boy2coool@...]
          Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 2:24 PM
          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [AquaticLife] Help Goldfish disease




          My fantail Goldfish is sick and its not taking food and the symptoms
          are like the caudal fins which is usually white in color has changed
          to a dirty color with brownish red streaks. It spends most of it's
          time down on the bottom corner of the tank. Actually two of the
          goldfishes had the same symptoms, I tried salt treatment but it didn't
          work one of them died. What could be done so that i ensure atleast i
          could save the other ones life.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8133 From: ben_noreau Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Looking for Information
          Steve,

          I have it is a Smithsonina Handbook called Aquarium Fish by Dick
          Mills. The publisher is DK. I think that the photos in the book dont
          do the fish justice.

          Also its a matter of I am not sure what I want and I wanted to
          look at as many photos as I could so that I could get an idea what I
          am into. I did find a site that is really good. Its called
          solodvds.com It groups the fish by the families and you can select
          the groups and then it lists the fish in that group with photos. I
          did find several fish in there that did interest me that I am going to
          take to my supplier.

          What magazines would you reccomend. I live in a rural area and
          the only magizine I have seen a fish in is National Geographic. Im
          serious. We do have a bookstore that I could order from if you would
          give me a few suggestions. I agree that there is no comparison
          between a "real" photo and a digital photo.

          Thanks,
          Ben



          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Steve"
          <steve@f...> wrote:
          > Ben,
          >
          > What book do you have? There are a lot of books out there, some very
          good,
          > and some not so good, and everything in between. We can make some book
          > recommendations for you as well.
          >
          > Everyone has their favorite sites. For a number of sites, including
          those
          > you are looking for, and many that will take you down other paths, point
          > your browser to http://www.petsforum.com/was/links.html.
          >
          > The pictures you see of fish will vary quite a bit. There are good
          photos
          > and not so good photos. A lot of fish simply do not photograph well,
          and the
          > camera misses some of the things that make the fish very likeable in
          a color
          > sense, or they my be over or under emphasized. The monitor and the
          web also
          > through in a few wrinkles. What looks good on the monitor of the
          person who
          > designs the site, may not look so good on your monitor. The colors
          could be
          > a bit different, where an orange may look more red or yellow than it
          should,
          > the blue doesn't show in the same shade, etc. Compression of the
          photos also
          > makes a difference in color as well. A photo from my digital camera
          may be
          > over 1 megabyte in size, but to make for better viewing it is
          cropped and
          > compressed and the DPI may be changed, so it come sin at a more
          manageable
          > 100 KB to be downloaded from a thumbnail to your machine.
          >
          > The web may be a good start, but the books and magazines are really
          the way
          > to get to know your fish, or the fish you may want to keep. We still
          have a
          > long way to go, despite what the pundits and optimists say, before
          the web
          > will replace paper in the hand.
          >
          > \\Steve//
          >
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8134 From: ben_noreau Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Re: Looking for Information
          I live in Massena NY. We are 8 miles south of the Canadian Border.
          As far as entertainment is concerned if you dont like to bowl or go to
          the movies the only alternatives are the mall and wal-mart. Otherwise
          your screwed.

          Ben
          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
          "joequality1980" <crazy.joe.walcek@g...> wrote:
          >
          > Try:
          >
          > http://www.fishbase.org/search.cfm
          >
          > btw, where do you live where Wal-Mart is the place to be?
          >
          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "ben_noreau"
          > <ben_noreau@y...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello,
          > >
          > > I was wondering if anyone could reccomend tropical fish
          > sites.
          > > Specifically what I am looking for is a site that offers pictures
          > and
          > > descriptions of fish and offers what other fish would be compatible
          > > with them. Something such as an encyclopedia site or a catalogue
          > site.
          > >
          > > I live in a very rural area and the I have learned that the
          > > varities offered in this area are a small representation of what is
          > > truely out there. I have found a reputable vendor that will
          > special
          > > order for me but I am not sure what to order.
          > >
          > > I have a book about aquarium fish and once again the number of
          > > fish in the book is a small representation of what is available.
          > Also
          > > the illustrations do not capture the beauty of the fish.
          > >
          > > I would appreciate any help, thanks in advance.
          > >
          > > Ben
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8135 From: paul helms Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] clown fish
          at the moment i don't know where the cd is with
          them....i'll take some in a couple weeks when i get
          the bigger tank. the 7 gallon is tough to see inat
          the moment as i have been growing calurpa in there.
          paul
          --- Colleen <alaskaicekubes@...> wrote:

          > wow thats a big tank got pics?
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: paul helms
          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 11:35 PM
          > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] clown fish
          >
          >
          > i have four right now.
          > two in a 7 gallon nano reef and 2 in a 110
          > gallon...soon to be a 180
          > --- Colleen <alaskaicekubes@...> wrote:
          >
          > > its not mine i just wish someday to have one
          > they
          > > are so neat to watch
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: paul helms
          > > To:
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 2:54 PM
          > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] clown fish
          > >
          > >
          > > looks good
          > >
          > > --- Colleen <alaskaicekubes@...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > __________________________________
          > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do
          > we.
          > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
          > >
          > >
          > > please delete this line and everything below
          > it
          > > when replying, thanks
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
          > >
          > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
          > > email to:
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > the
          > > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
          > http://my.yahoo.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > please delete this line and everything below it
          > when replying, thanks
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
          >
          >
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
          >
          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
          > email to:
          >
          >
          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
          > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
          >




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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8136 From: Anne Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello I a new here.
          Hi and welcome. Nice to meet you. I haven't been here
          long myself but I learn something new all the time.
          I'm heading to your website in a few minutes. Are Bala
          Sharks difficult to keep?
          Anne

          __________________________________________________
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8137 From: Aaron Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium grou
          Hello,

          The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed
          the group's name to AquaticLife.
          This means that both the group's email address and the group home page
          location have changed.

          The group email address:
          AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com

          The group home page location:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife

          If you have links which point to this group or an address book entry
          for the group, you should update them, as the old addresses will no
          longer work.

          Regards,

          Yahoo! Groups Customer Care
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8138 From: Aaron Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: New Group Name - AquaticLife
          This message is to Notify all members of the group address change.

          Previous Group Name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium

          New Group Name: AquaticLife

          New Email Address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com

          New Web Address: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife


          Please update any Links and Bookmarks with the new name.

          Thank You
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8139 From: Aaron Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Re: NAME CHANGE
          It is Finally Oficial!


          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium has become AquaticLife


          .....


          the following are excerpts from emails fom Yahoo! explaining the
          delay.

          ......

          Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:25:58 -0800

          Hello,

          Thank you for writing to Yahoo! Groups.

          When a group is deleted, the Yahoo! Groups database will not release
          the name for three weeks. We suggest that you start the group under a
          similar name and change it when the original name is released.

          .....

          Hello,

          Thank you for contacting Yahoo! Customer Care.

          We can reactivate the group "AquaticLife" but we need to
          verify your
          account the reason we are asking for verification is to verify you are
          the group owner.

          We need to be able to verify all the information currently registered
          on
          your account in order to assist with access to your Yahoo! Group. For
          security reasons, you must match the verification information exactly
          as
          it was entered during your initial registration. We will not be able
          to
          make any changes to your groups account if the verification
          information
          does not match.

          .....

          Hello,
          Thank you for writing to Yahoo! Groups.

          You cannot reuse the group name until the name is released from our
          database.

          We have received your suggestions regarding Yahoo! Groups policies and
          would like to thank you for your comments. In this particular
          situation
          we have explained our policies and shared our product knowledge with
          you. At this time we are unable to alter our policy or product, and
          therefore unable to offer any further assistance.

          If you have any questions regarding Yahoo!, please visit our Help
          Pages
          at:

          http://help.yahoo.com/

          Thank you again for contacting Yahoo! Customer Care.

          Regards,

          Jeri

          Yahoo! Customer Care

          ......

          Original Message Follows:
          -------------------------



          Group Name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium

          Are you a... Owner/Moderator

          Subject: Other

          Type your feedback here:
          To Whom It May Concern,

          On April 25, 2004, I created the group
          AquaticLife with the intention of
          reserving the name to replace
          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium.

          Yesterday, 12/28/04, I deleted the
          AquaticLife group to change names.

          Now I cannot change the names because
          a message appears "That group address
          has already been taken."

          However, when I search for that group,
          I get a message "There is no group
          called AquaticLife"

          It is plain to see on my Home page
          that I am attempting to change the
          names. It is also Obvious that I alone
          Created the group 'AquaticLife' and
          several others beginning with the same
          name.

          Your assistance is greatly appreciated,
          Thank You
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8140 From: notify@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: [AquaticLife] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name/addresses h
          Hello,

          The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name.
          This means that both the group's email address and the group home page
          location have changed.

          The group email address:
          AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com

          The group home page location:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife

          If you have links which point to this group or an address book entry
          for the group, you should update them, as the old addresses will no
          longer work.

          Regards,

          Yahoo! Groups Customer Care
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8141 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Re: musty smell
              Throw the chemicals in the trash and do water changes.  The only thing you need to remove with chemicals is chloranimine and sometimes chlorine.  There is no substitute for a water change and biological action when ammonia is too high.
           
          Patrick, the American Fish Guy
           
          Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
          About my tanks:  
          29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
          -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
          -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
          -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
          10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
          -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
          -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
          -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
          -------Original Message-------
          Hi, My 10 gal. aquarium has a stale smell to the
          water. I have 3 platys in it, it has been running for
          5 weeks, and recently the ammonia has gone up but it
          is not an ammonia smell and I'm dealing with that.
          Could it be the ammonia down I'm smelling? I have
          vacumned and done a water change (recommended by
          Tetra) but the smell is still there. On the other hand
          the fish seem to be fine with it.
          Thanks
          Anne
           
          Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8142 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Re: Looking for Information
          Since you mention books, I would highly recommend that you try to
          find an original Innes "Exotic Aquarium Fishes" book (possibly on
          eBay, etc.). This book is never outdated and although it may not
          describe the compatibility of each and every fish including within
          its covers, it does cover most popular community aquarium fish (and
          others) in much detail with excellent illustrations. Great finding a
          reputable vendor; additionally, I would think he may be able to
          advise you of the compatibility of any fish you may "discover" in
          such books. Ray
          \
          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ben_noreau" <ben_noreau@y...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Hello,
          >
          > I was wondering if anyone could reccomend tropical fish sites.
          > Specifically what I am looking for is a site that offers pictures
          and
          > descriptions of fish and offers what other fish would be compatible
          > with them. Something such as an encyclopedia site or a catalogue
          site.
          >
          > I live in a very rural area and the I have learned that the
          > varities offered in this area are a small representation of what is
          > truely out there. I have found a reputable vendor that will special
          > order for me but I am not sure what to order.
          >
          > I have a book about aquarium fish and once again the number of
          > fish in the book is a small representation of what is available.
          Also
          > the illustrations do not capture the beauty of the fish.
          >
          > I would appreciate any help, thanks in advance.
          >
          > Ben
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8143 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/28/2005
          Subject: Re: Hello I a new here.
          Hi Anne, Bala Sharks (Tri-Color Sharks) are extremely hardy fish,
          very easy to keep, and are not very prone to coming down with
          diseases. They are excellent community fish, meaning they will get
          along with your other fish well, being quite peaceful. However, they
          do need a large tank as they can get up to 18" and will average
          around 13" at maturity. They do best when another one or two of
          their own kind are present. Ray
          \
          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Anne <md_gustoby@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi and welcome. Nice to meet you. I haven't been here
          > long myself but I learn something new all the time.
          > I'm heading to your website in a few minutes. Are Bala
          > Sharks difficult to keep?
          > Anne
          >
          > __________________________________________________
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > http://mail.yahoo.com
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8144 From: paul helms Date: 1/29/2005
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
          aaron,
          are you still planing on bringing in fish?
          paul
          --- Aaron <massagetherapist@...> wrote:

          >
          > Hello,
          >
          > The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
          > group has changed
          > the group's name to AquaticLife.
          > This means that both the group's email address and
          > the group home page
          > location have changed.
          >
          > The group email address:
          > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > The group home page location:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife
          >
          > If you have links which point to this group or an
          > address book entry
          > for the group, you should update them, as the old
          > addresses will no
          > longer work.
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Customer Care
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >




          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
          http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8145 From: Aaron Date: 1/29/2005
          Subject: New Group Category: Fish
          We are now the Largest of all Yahoo! Fish Groups.


          Old Category - Top > Hobbies & Crafts > Hobbies > Aquariums

          NEW Category - Top>Science > Biology > Animals > Marine Life > Fish
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8146 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/29/2005
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be Aquatic
          Hi Shannon, Noticed a couple of weeks ago you mentioned you now have
          3 groups of your own (?). Are these groups fish related? If so,
          would you mind mentioning the names and/or the on line addresses of
          them? Thanks, Ray
          \
          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
          > i agree i have stopped reading mail cause i cant even see the
          titles till i
          > click to open it.. i thought this name change was going to happen
          on the new
          > year... and we were subject to all this stuff atleast a week
          before. now i own 3
          > groups myself and i would loose valued members if i didn't stick to
          doing
          > what i said i was going too.. shannon
          > an someone change the darn name or take out the part saying its
          going to be
          > changed...... PLEASE its hard for me to scan the 100++ plus
          messages I get
          > a day to see if there is anything of intrested I want to read...
          > Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium ~ group name soon to be
          AquaticLife ]
          > ora...
          >
          > ok what is this message about? guess I have to read everyone from
          this group
          > or delete everyone...
          > I'd rather not delete messages but I can't possibly read everyone,
          or I'd be
          > on her hours at a time.
          >
          > thanks for reading this message
          > Back to the 163 other emails in my mailbox
          > wasn't i on here this morning at 2am ? wow 164 emails in less
          then 16 hrs
          > damn I need to get rid of a few lists( all fish related) or start
          getting on
          > here more often :-)
          >
          > Rob
          > NE Indiana
          > USA
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8147 From: Anne Date: 1/29/2005
          Subject: Re: musty smell
          "Throw the chemicals in the trash and do water
          changes. The only thing you need to remove with
          chemicals is chloranimine and sometimes chlorine.
          There is no substitute for a water change and
          biological action when ammonia is too high."

          I'm doing water changes daily. Every morning after
          taking the ammonia reading. But aren't so many water
          changes tough on the fish? (Better then them dying
          from ammonia though) How much water (%)do you think I
          should be changing?
          Anne



          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
          http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8148 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/29/2005
          Subject: Re: New Group Category: Fish
              Overall, there are 3 groups larger than this one in members that involve aquarium fish, but are in different categories.  One has over 900 and one over 1400, both are rarely active despite huge numbers.  The third has over 1200 members and is as active as this one.  I therefore suggest a membership drive.  If everybody invites a fish friend to join, we will have a good start.
           
          Patrick, the American Fish Guy
           
          Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
          About my tanks:  
          29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
          -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
          -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
          -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
          10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
          -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
          -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
          -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
          -------Original Message-------
          We are now the Largest of all Yahoo! Fish Groups.


          Old Category - Top > Hobbies & Crafts > Hobbies > Aquariums 

          NEW Category - Top>Science > Biology > Animals > Marine Life > Fish
          Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8149 From: Melanie Date: 1/29/2005
          Subject: The Fish I Have
          I have a 10 gallon tank with one Betta in it. His name is Patrick.
          Sometimes I call him pretty boy. He was givin to me by a great
          friend that bred him. I also have alot of snails and a plant alto
          I'm not sure what kind of snails or plant I have.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8150 From: lorivs2004 Date: 1/30/2005
          Subject: new young angels
          Hi Everyone,
          thanks so much for your response to my fur question. I just bought 2
          quarter size angels yesterday. they are staying in the back of my
          tank in the corner. they seem to be stressed. I don't remember angel
          firsh as being timid. please tell me how I can help to eliminate
          their stress.

          thanks
          lori
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8151 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/30/2005
          Subject: Re: new young angels
          Hi Lori, Small Angelfish's initial behavior in the environment of a
          new (to them) tank can vary, depending very much upon that
          environment and how comfortable they feel. It is quite normal for
          them to appear stressed (ill at ease) at first, in this new home,
          until they get used to it. Unless you have more aggressive or fin-
          nipping fish with them, they should start to behave more normally
          within a week and a half or so at most. Give them some time. The
          addition of plants and/or driftwood to give them a sense of security
          will help, as well as the ommission of outside stress inducing
          sources such as sudden illumination of the tank, the tank being in a
          heavily trafficed area, the position of the tank in proximity of
          people's sudden (to them) appearance, etc. These factors pertain to
          most aquarium fish in general, but are especially applicable to
          Cichlids, which have a sense of "awareness" and "intelligence" about
          them. Ray
          \
          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "lorivs2004" <lorivs2004@y...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Hi Everyone,
          > thanks so much for your response to my fur question. I just bought
          2
          > quarter size angels yesterday. they are staying in the back of my
          > tank in the corner. they seem to be stressed. I don't remember
          angel
          > firsh as being timid. please tell me how I can help to eliminate
          > their stress.
          >
          > thanks
          > lori
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8152 From: Cosmo Knight Date: 1/30/2005
          Subject: Re: new young angels
          I just got an angel on Friday. What I did was turn off the tank
          light. It was in the corner for about 30 minutes but came out after
          that. It likes to hide in the tall plants. So maybe get some tall
          plants if you don't have any. Mine are fake (for now). Also my
          angel is about the same size (quarter size).

          HTH,
          Cos.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8153 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 1/30/2005
          Subject: Re: The Fish I Have
              Welcome to the group, Melanie.
           
          Patrick, the American Fish Guy
           
          Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
          About my tanks:  
          29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
          -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
          -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
          -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
          10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
          -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
          -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
          -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
          -------Original Message-------
          I have a 10 gallon tank with one Betta in it. His name is Patrick.
          Sometimes I call him pretty boy. He was givin to me by a great
          friend that bred him. I also have alot of snails and a plant alto
          I'm not sure what kind of snails or plant I have.
          Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8154 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/30/2005
          Subject: lonely fish?
          Hi,

          My silver shark keeps looking at its reflection in the glass. Does this
          mean its lonely?

          None of my other fish (Guppies, tiger barbs) not even the solo bristle
          nose.

          =Nick

          buck load of guppies maybe 16 or 20?
          5 tiger barbs - all healthy now - big thank you to the group.
          1 bristle nose - my Algie eater.
          1 silver shark - 4cm long ish.
          6 bunches of plants, not sure what types - one even has a new flower -
          Yay!
          Tank 300 litres (4 ft long x 2.5 ft thick x 18 inch high)
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8155 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/30/2005
          Subject: San Francisco Aquarium Society (SFAS), 2/4/2005, 7:30 pm
          Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
          San Francisco Aquarium Society (SFAS)

          Friday February 4, 2005
          7:30 pm - 9:30 pm
          This event repeats on the first Friday of every month.

          Event Location: first Friday of each month at San Francisco State University
          Notes:
          http://www.sfaquarium.org/index.html

          We meet the first Friday of each month at The San Francisco State University.

          Founded in 1923, the San Francisco Aquarium Society is regarded as one of the nation's esteemed aquarium hobbyist organizations.

          Yahoo! Greetings
          Send a Yahoo! Greeting.
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          Set up birthday reminders!
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          Copyright ©  2005  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.
          Privacy Policy - Terms of Service
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8156 From: photo_muse Date: 1/30/2005
          Subject: Nitrates & Plants
          Hi All!

          This is Peggy, the gal who had rampant nitrates killing cory cats.
          Although my nitrates are down now, I'd like to keep them down. (Yes,
          I know, regular water changes!) I was reading recently that plants
          can help keep down nitrate levels. Does anyone have any first hand
          experience with this?

          Also, I was looking at lists of different kinds of plants
          (http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php) and now am wondering what
          makes a difference between low, medium and high light requirements.

          Last time I tried plants, I ended up with algae all over the entire
          tank and tons of dead leaves that were a pain to vacuum up. Advice
          on something that is easy to keep would be greatly appreciated!

          Thanks!

          Peggy :)
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8157 From: Colleen Date: 1/30/2005
          Subject: petco
          The fish guy at petco said my fish are dying because my tank it to small have you ever heard this before anyone?
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:19 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Fish I Have

              Welcome to the group, Melanie.
           
          Patrick, the American Fish Guy
           
          Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
          About my tanks:  
          29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
          -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
          -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
          -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
          10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
          -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
          -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
          -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
          -------Original Message-------
          I have a 10 gallon tank with one Betta in it. His name is Patrick.
          Sometimes I call him pretty boy. He was givin to me by a great
          friend that bred him. I also have alot of snails and a plant alto
          I'm not sure what kind of snails or plant I have.
          Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8158 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: petco
            Its impossible for your tank to be too small...Its possible you are putting to Big of fish, too many fish, or the wrong kind of fish into it ....

          What size tank? how many fish? what kind?



          rob
          NE Indiana
          USa


          In a message dated 1/31/2005 1:46:03 AM Central Standard Time, alaskaicekubes@... writes:


          The fish guy at petco said my fish are dying because my tank is to small have you ever heard this before anyone?


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8159 From: Tim Fairchild Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Rainbowfish
          The rain came and the creeks are running and full of rainbowfish again...
          Collected 10 small splendida splendida today, though one looks injured and
          not real well... Been waiting all year hoping they were still around and not
          killed out by the drought for the last 4 years...

          tim

          --
          ---------------------------------------------------------
          Tim & Therese Fairchild
          Atchafalaya Border Collies.
          Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia.
          ---------------------------------------------------------
          Email mailto:tim@...
          Homepage http://www.bcs4me.com
          Photos http://www.pbase.com/amosf
          ---------------------------------------------------------
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8160 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: petco

          I think I read that it’s a 10 gallon tank and it houses a betta along with some snails??? I am sure this is defiantly not small.. or was it another tank you are having a problem with?

           

          Nim

           


          From: FortWayneFish@... [mailto:FortWayneFish@...]
          Sent: 31 January 2005 09:37
          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] petco

           

            Its impossible for your tank to be too small...Its possible you are putting to Big of fish, too many fish, or the wrong kind of fish into it ....

          What size tank? how many fish? what kind?



          rob
          NE Indiana
          USa


          In a message dated 1/31/2005 1:46:03 AM Central Standard Time, alaskaicekubes@... writes:



          The fish guy at petco said my fish are dying because my tank is to small have you ever heard this before anyone?





          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8161 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: Rainbowfish
          Great to hear Tim. Hopefully the rain keep up for awhile I hear its dry in your kneck of the woods.

          Glad to see the rainbows running also. Maybe with a little more rain there will be a good hatch.


          In a message dated 1/31/2005 3:43:28 AM Central Standard Time, tim@... writes:



          The rain came and the creeks are running and full of rainbowfish again...
          Collected 10 small splendida splendida today, though one looks injured and
          not real well... Been waiting all year hoping they were still around and not
          killed out by the drought for the last 4 years...

          tim


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8162 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: petco
          10 gallons for a betta, would be A whole lot of tank.. unless the snails are producing way to much waste. Maybe do a good tank cleaning( vaccum gravel ) 
          snails produce a lot of waste ( poop ) waterchanges are great but you need to vaccum gravel also..
          get rid of the Snails ( unless you want them ) and hopefully things will get back into order.


          my 2cents'
          rob
          Indiana


          In a message dated 1/31/2005 3:50:05 AM Central Standard Time, nimmat4@... writes:



          I think I read that it’s a 10 gallon tank and it houses a betta along with some snails??? I am sure this is defiantly not small.. or was it another tank you are having a problem with?



          Nim




          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8163 From: Tim Fairchild Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: Rainbowfish
          On Monday 31 Jan 2005 19:47, FortWayneFish@... wrote:
          > Great to hear Tim. Hopefully the rain keep up for awhile I hear its dry in
          > your kneck of the woods.
          >
          > Glad to see the rainbows running also. Maybe with a little more rain there
          > will be a good hatch.

          Yep, hope so... We've had more rain this january than we have in over 10
          years. Now we have to hope february has some rain as well... Last couple of
          years the creek didn't run enough for them to get upstream this far :(

          tim

          --
          ---------------------------------------------------------
          Tim & Therese Fairchild
          Atchafalaya Border Collies.
          Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia.
          ---------------------------------------------------------
          Email mailto:tim@...
          Homepage http://www.bcs4me.com
          Photos http://www.pbase.com/amosf
          ---------------------------------------------------------
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8164 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
                 I hope others reply, but Java Fern, Java Moss and especially Hygrophilia Polysperma worked for this guy 'who-had-a-hard-time-keeping-plants'. I would'nt consider keeping an undergravel filter 'tho, even if SOME have had success with growing plants over an undergravel-filter. (I did have success with Java-Moss and a UGF, but the J.Fern was kept attached to a Penn-Plax 'hanging-cave', suction-cupped on the left side of the tank, opposite a hang-on Whisper filter on the back of the tank).
                There's a recipe for "baking" mud-balls that I used, to push into the gravel where the plants go. I bought a 'Tetra' composition years back that looked like garden loam. You wet the stuff 'till wet enough to make mud-balls, then bake them for X amt., at X degrees, let them cool and plant them.
              One of the problems I had with the Hygrophilia was that it could take some time to acclamate to the tank. But when it finally started growing, I had to trim the tops every week.
                                       Joe P
                                                       Joe P
           
          -------------- Original message --------------

          Hi All!

          This is Peggy, the gal who had rampant nitrates killing cory cats. 
          Although my nitrates are down now, I'd like to keep them down.  (Yes,
          I know, regular water changes!)  I was reading recently that plants
          can help keep down nitrate levels.  Does anyone have any first hand
          experience with this? 

          Also, I was looking at lists of different kinds of plants
          (http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php) and now am wondering what
          makes a difference between low, medium and high light requirements.

          Last time I tried plants, I ended up with algae all over the entire
          tank and tons of dead leaves that were a pain to vacuum up.  Advice
          on something that is easy to keep would be greatly appreciated!

          Thanks!

          Peggy :)






          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8165 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: petco
            Half dozen of one and six of the other. The tank is too small if you have too many fish, or the fish are too big, or a combination of both, barring there are ither problems.
                                                                        Joe P
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          The fish guy at petco said my fish are dying because my tank it to small have you ever heard this before anyone?
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:19 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Fish I Have

              Welcome to the group, Melanie.
           
          Patrick, the American Fish Guy
           
          Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
          About my tanks:  
          29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
          -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
          -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
          -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
          10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
          -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
          -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
          -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
          -------Original Message-------
          I have a 10 gallon tank with one Betta in it. His name is Patrick.
          Sometimes I call him pretty boy. He was givin to me by a great
          friend that bred him. I also have alot of snails and a plant alto
          I'm not sure what kind of snails or plant I have.
          Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8166 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: Rainbowfish
          Great to hear that Tim, and great to hear from you again. Looks like
          this will save you the 500 or so mile trip of going up north to the
          peninsula. Nice to know the fish are still around. Let's hope the
          rain keeps falling and the creeks don't dry. Ray
          \
          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Tim Fairchild <tim@b...> wrote:
          >
          > The rain came and the creeks are running and full of rainbowfish
          again...
          > Collected 10 small splendida splendida today, though one looks
          injured and
          > not real well... Been waiting all year hoping they were still
          around and not
          > killed out by the drought for the last 4 years...
          >
          > tim
          >
          > --
          > ---------------------------------------------------------
          > Tim & Therese Fairchild
          > Atchafalaya Border Collies.
          > Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia.
          > ---------------------------------------------------------
          > Email mailto:tim@b...
          > Homepage http://www.bcs4me.com
          > Photos http://www.pbase.com/amosf
          > ---------------------------------------------------------
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8167 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
          Peggy, Yes, I assumed it was common knowledge, but I guess not.
          Plants use nitrates as food. The addition of live plants to your
          tank will definitely lower you nitrate content and help keep that
          part under control. Ray
          \
          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "photo_muse" <photo_muse@y...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Hi All!
          >
          > This is Peggy, the gal who had rampant nitrates killing cory cats.
          > Although my nitrates are down now, I'd like to keep them down.
          (Yes,
          > I know, regular water changes!) I was reading recently that plants
          > can help keep down nitrate levels. Does anyone have any first hand
          > experience with this?
          >
          > Also, I was looking at lists of different kinds of plants
          > (http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php) and now am wondering what
          > makes a difference between low, medium and high light requirements.
          >
          > Last time I tried plants, I ended up with algae all over the entire
          > tank and tons of dead leaves that were a pain to vacuum up. Advice
          > on something that is easy to keep would be greatly appreciated!
          >
          > Thanks!
          >
          > Peggy :)
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8168 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: petco
                 My feelings have been "no tank is big enough'. If the tank is big enough maybe the natural environment of the fish is too big.
                                        JoeP
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          10 gallons for a betta, would be A whole lot of tank.. unless the snails are producing way to much waste. Maybe do a good tank cleaning( vaccum gravel ) 
          snails produce a lot of waste ( poop ) waterchanges are great but you need to vaccum gravel also..
          get rid of the Snails ( unless you want them ) and hopefully things will get back into order.


          my 2cents'
          rob
          Indiana


          In a message dated 1/31/2005 3:50:05 AM Central Standard Time, nimmat4@... writes:



          I think I read that it���s a 10 gallon tank and it houses a betta along with some snails??? I am sure this is defiantly not small.. or was it another tank you are having a problem with?



          Nim






          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8169 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: lonely fish?
          Nick, If by "silver shark" you mean Bala (or Tri-Color) Shark which
          is mostly silver, these fish do best in two's or three's. They enjoy
          the company of their own kind. Ray
          \
          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas Munro"
          <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
          > Hi,
          >
          > My silver shark keeps looking at its reflection in the glass. Does
          this
          > mean its lonely?
          >
          > None of my other fish (Guppies, tiger barbs) not even the solo
          bristle
          > nose.
          >
          > =Nick
          >
          > buck load of guppies maybe 16 or 20?
          > 5 tiger barbs - all healthy now - big thank you to the group.
          > 1 bristle nose - my Algie eater.
          > 1 silver shark - 4cm long ish.
          > 6 bunches of plants, not sure what types - one even has a new
          flower -
          > Yay!
          > Tank 300 litres (4 ft long x 2.5 ft thick x 18 inch high)
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8170 From: Colleen Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: petco
          3 gallon, right now i have one bleeding heart, two neons, a platy ..
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 12:37 AM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] petco

            Its impossible for your tank to be too small...Its possible you are putting to Big of fish, too many fish, or the wrong kind of fish into it ....

          What size tank? how many fish? what kind?



          rob
          NE Indiana
          USa


          In a message dated 1/31/2005 1:46:03 AM Central Standard Time, alaskaicekubes@... writes:


          The fish guy at petco said my fish are dying because my tank is to small have you ever heard this before anyone?




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8171 From: Colleen Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: petco
          no my betta is alone in a separate tank she is doing just fine .
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 12:49 AM
          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] petco

          I think I read that it’s a 10 gallon tank and it houses a betta along with some snails??? I am sure this is defiantly not small.. or was it another tank you are having a problem with?

           

          Nim

           


          From: FortWayneFish@... [mailto:FortWayneFish@...]
          Sent: 31 January 2005 09:37
          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] petco

           

            Its impossible for your tank to be too small...Its possible you are putting to Big of fish, too many fish, or the wrong kind of fish into it ....

          What size tank? how many fish? what kind?



          rob
          NE Indiana
          USa


          In a message dated 1/31/2005 1:46:03 AM Central Standard Time, alaskaicekubes@... writes:



          The fish guy at petco said my fish are dying because my tank is to small have you ever heard this before anyone?





          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8172 From: Colleen Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: petco
          i had two mollies but they both died along with the others
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 1:39 AM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] petco

            Half dozen of one and six of the other. The tank is too small if you have too many fish, or the fish are too big, or a combination of both, barring there are ither problems.
                                                                        Joe P
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          The fish guy at petco said my fish are dying because my tank it to small have you ever heard this before anyone?
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:19 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Fish I Have

              Welcome to the group, Melanie.
           
          Patrick, the American Fish Guy
           
          Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
          About my tanks:  
          29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
          -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
          -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
          -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
          10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
          -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
          -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
          -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
          -------Original Message-------
          I have a 10 gallon tank with one Betta in it. His name is Patrick.
          Sometimes I call him pretty boy. He was givin to me by a great
          friend that bred him. I also have alot of snails and a plant alto
          I'm not sure what kind of snails or plant I have.
          Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8173 From: Amalthea Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: petco
          that depends on how many snails you have. they can be very dirty
          animals.
          amalthea
          http://www.puppetterrors.com
          Don't be Afraid to Scream....
          On Jan 31, 2005, at 4:49 AM, Nimish Mathur wrote:

          > I think I read that it’s a 10 gallon tank and it houses a betta along
          > with some snails??? I am sure this is defiantly not small.. or was it
          > another tank you are having a problem with?
          >
          >  
          >
          > Nim
          >
          >  
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8174 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: petco
             There's a thing called the 'inch-per-gallon' rule, and your petco guy may have been correct. The 'inch-per-gallon' rule has a defect. The size of a fish is'nt dependent on length. Some one-inch ( or any length) fish have much more volume/density, hence produce more waste, and require more food.
             Some people manage to claim crowding what to some are too many fish into a given size does'nt cause problems. They may have the knowledge to overcrowd by optimizing filtration and upkeep/maintainance, or they just have'nt run into problems yet.
              When I first started keeping fish, I believed an undergravel filter was a great benefit, and came to believe that sponge filters in a hang-on filter-box would increase the already optimized  biological filtering of an undergravel filter. (some people HATE UGF's, and others swear by them. Some people can't grow plants with them, and others can. Some say the filters are clogged by the roots of plants, and others say the plants don't like the UGF, and won't grow.) I used UGF's 'till I heavily filtered a 75 gallon tank with a large trickle-filter using a large capacity bio/mechanical (but mostly bio) polyester filter medium. I augmented that with one or more cannister filters. I rarely had fish deaths unless I did'nt quarantine sufficiently, or let maintainance slip.
             You can't crowd fish into a tank like you can cram paint onto a canvas for visual effect. You must balance sensitivity to needs of life forms, not coloration, vibrance and depth.You sound like you were hurt by the loss of your fish, so it seems you're heading in the right direction.
                                                  Joe P
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          i had two mollies but they both died along with the others
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 1:39 AM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] petco

            Half dozen of one and six of the other. The tank is too small if you have too many fish, or the fish are too big, or a combination of both, barring there are ither problems.
                                                                        Joe P
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          The fish guy at petco said my fish are dying because my tank it to small have you ever heard this before anyone?
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:19 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Fish I Have

              Welcome to the group, Melanie.
           
          Patrick, the American Fish Guy
           
          Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
          About my tanks:  
          29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
          -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
          -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
          -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
          10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
          -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
          -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
          -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
          -------Original Message-------
          I have a 10 gallon tank with one Betta in it. His name is Patrick.
          Sometimes I call him pretty boy. He was givin to me by a great
          friend that bred him. I also have alot of snails and a plant alto
          I'm not sure what kind of snails or plant I have.
          Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8175 From: Colleen Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: petco
          well do you really think a big tank is needed if i choose to get more fish later
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 9:26 AM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] petco

             There's a thing called the 'inch-per-gallon' rule, and your petco guy may have been correct. The 'inch-per-gallon' rule has a defect. The size of a fish is'nt dependent on length. Some one-inch ( or any length) fish have much more volume/density, hence produce more waste, and require more food.
             Some people manage to claim crowding what to some are too many fish into a given size does'nt cause problems. They may have the knowledge to overcrowd by optimizing filtration and upkeep/maintainance, or they just have'nt run into problems yet.
              When I first started keeping fish, I believed an undergravel filter was a great benefit, and came to believe that sponge filters in a hang-on filter-box would increase the already optimized  biological filtering of an undergravel filter. (some people HATE UGF's, and others swear by them. Some people can't grow plants with them, and others can. Some say the filters are clogged by the roots of plants, and others say the plants don't like the UGF, and won't grow.) I used UGF's 'till I heavily filtered a 75 gallon tank with a large trickle-filter using a large capacity bio/mechanical (but mostly bio) polyester filter medium. I augmented that with one or more cannister filters. I rarely had fish deaths unless I did'nt quarantine sufficiently, or let maintainance slip.
             You can't crowd fish into a tank like you can cram paint onto a canvas for visual effect. You must balance sensitivity to needs of life forms, not coloration, vibrance and depth.You sound like you were hurt by the loss of your fish, so it seems you're heading in the right direction.
                                                  Joe P
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          i had two mollies but they both died along with the others
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 1:39 AM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] petco

            Half dozen of one and six of the other. The tank is too small if you have too many fish, or the fish are too big, or a combination of both, barring there are ither problems.
                                                                        Joe P
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          The fish guy at petco said my fish are dying because my tank it to small have you ever heard this before anyone?
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:19 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Fish I Have

              Welcome to the group, Melanie.
           
          Patrick, the American Fish Guy
           
          Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
          About my tanks:  
          29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
          -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
          -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
          -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
          10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
          -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
          -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
          -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
          -------Original Message-------
          I have a 10 gallon tank with one Betta in it. His name is Patrick.
          Sometimes I call him pretty boy. He was givin to me by a great
          friend that bred him. I also have alot of snails and a plant alto
          I'm not sure what kind of snails or plant I have.
          Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8176 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: petco
              Yes. I always believe a larger tank is better. And beside a larger tank, you should be aware of the best filtration possible for the kind and number of water animals you have. It's almost impossible to overcrowd a tank and not have disease and death. The 'one-inch-rule' I mentioned could indicate you had too many fish in a 3 gallon tank. A ten or twenty gallon, for starters could be easier to maintain because there's more water, and also there should be more bio/chemical/mechanical filtration to absorb/alter waste matter. If you (for example) place one drop of green dye in a thimble,and mix it,  and one drop in a ten gallon tank, the water will be greener in the thimble. If your three-gallon was new, and you had all those fish in it, there were too many fish, and not enough time for beneficial bacteria to handle the waste.
                                                  JoeP
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          well do you really think a big tank is needed if i choose to get more fish later
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 9:26 AM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] petco

             There's a thing called the 'inch-per-gallon' rule, and your petco guy may have been correct. The 'inch-per-gallon' rule has a defect. The size of a fish is'nt dependent on length. Some one-inch ( or any length) fish have much more volume/density, hence produce more waste, and require more food.
             Some people manage to claim crowding what to some are too many fish into a given size does'nt cause problems. They may have the knowledge to overcrowd by optimizing filtration and upkeep/maintainance, or they just have'nt run into problems yet.
              When I first started keeping fish, I believed an undergravel filter was a great benefit, and came to believe that sponge filters in a hang-on filter-box would increase the already optimized  biological filtering of an undergravel filter. (some people HATE UGF's, and others swear by them. Some people can't grow plants with them, and others can. Some say the filters are clogged by the roots of plants, and others say the plants don't like the UGF, and won't grow.) I used UGF's 'till I heavily filtered a 75 gallon tank with a large trickle-filter using a large capacity bio/mechanical (but mostly bio) polyester filter medium. I augmented that with one or more cannister filters. I rarely had fish deaths unless I did'nt quarantine sufficiently, or let maintainance slip.
             You can't crowd fish into a tank like you can cram paint onto a canvas for visual effect. You must balance sensitivity to needs of life forms, not coloration, vibrance and depth.You sound like you were hurt by the loss of your fish, so it seems you're heading in the right direction.
                                                  Joe P
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          i had two mollies but they both died along with the others
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 1:39 AM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] petco

            Half dozen of one and six of the other. The tank is too small if you have too many fish, or the fish are too big, or a combination of both, barring there are ither problems.
                                                                        Joe P
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          The fish guy at petco said my fish are dying because my tank it to small have you ever heard this before anyone?
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:19 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Fish I Have

              Welcome to the group, Melanie.
           
          Patrick, the American Fish Guy
           
          Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
          About my tanks:  
          29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
          -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
          -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
          -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
          10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
          -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
          -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
          -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
          -------Original Message-------
          I have a 10 gallon tank with one Betta in it. His name is Patrick.
          Sometimes I call him pretty boy. He was givin to me by a great
          friend that bred him. I also have alot of snails and a plant alto
          I'm not sure what kind of snails or plant I have.
          Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8177 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: Digest Number 588
          Buddie,

          Its NOT impossible for a tank to be too small... your full of *!$!...
          cause I had a little tank (750 mililetres) and no what i did i couldn't
          get any fish to survive more than 3 weeks. I always had problems with
          green milky algy type stuff and the water smelling bad.

          So i upgraded to something 300 to 400 times the size, havn't looked
          back yet.

          =Nick

          > Message: 7
          > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 04:37:00 EST
          > From: FortWayneFish@...
          > Subject: Re: petco
          > Its impossible for your tank to be too small...Its possible you are
          putting
          > to Big of fish, too many fish, or the wrong kind of fish into it
          ....
          > What size tank? how many fish? what kind?
          > rob
          > NE Indiana, USa
          > In a message dated 1/31/2005 1:46:03 AM Central Standard Time,
          > alaskaicekubes@... writes:
          > > The fish guy at petco said my fish are dying because my tank is to
          small
          > > have you ever heard this before anyone?
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8178 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: YAy!
          Thanks Ray and all the others who helped me. :)

          Finally managed to get the nitrites down.

          Its taken four and a bit weeks plus about 6 or 7 bunches of plants and
          finnally lastnight my nitrites had droped / halved or better.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8179 From: paul helms Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: Digest Number 588
          it is not possible for a tank to be to small, but
          small minded people may put living creatures in a
          smaller tank than they belong in. a 750 ml tank is
          big enough for a single betta, or a single frog, or a
          single guppy, such as "aqua babies" if your fish were
          dying in 3 weeks, the cycle was probably killing them
          from a spike of ammonia. in addition, if the water
          was turning "green milky stuff", you were obviuosly
          not doing something right. like maybe overfeeding, or
          leaving it in direct sunlight, or not filtering it.

          --- Nicolas Munro <nicolas.munro@...>
          wrote:

          > Buddie,
          >
          > Its NOT impossible for a tank to be too small...
          > your full of *!$!...
          > cause I had a little tank (750 mililetres) and no
          > what i did i couldn't
          > get any fish to survive more than 3 weeks. I always
          > had problems with
          > green milky algy type stuff and the water smelling
          > bad.
          >
          > So i upgraded to something 300 to 400 times the
          > size, havn't looked
          > back yet.
          >
          > =Nick
          >
          > > Message: 7
          > > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 04:37:00 EST
          > > From: FortWayneFish@...
          > > Subject: Re: petco
          > > Its impossible for your tank to be too
          > small...Its possible you are
          > putting
          > > to Big of fish, too many fish, or the wrong kind
          > of fish into it
          > ....
          > > What size tank? how many fish? what kind?
          > > rob
          > > NE Indiana, USa
          > > In a message dated 1/31/2005 1:46:03 AM Central
          > Standard Time,
          > > alaskaicekubes@... writes:
          > > > The fish guy at petco said my fish are dying
          > because my tank is to
          > small
          > > > have you ever heard this before anyone?
          >
          >




          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
          http://my.yahoo.com
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8180 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: 750ml tanks
          Very Nicely said....................
          My mother keeps bettas in tanks or barracks no bigger then 750ml
          My grandmother bought an AquaBaby 3 years ago and her little Guppy is still going strong. Original Guppy.. 

          I think AquaBabies are inhumane but as long as people keep buying them, they will be sold...

          So some people who know a little bit about fish or get lucky Can keep things alive in a 750ml tank. 


          Myself I prefer 10 gallons or more

          rob
          NE Indiana
          Usa



          In a message dated 1/31/2005 6:53:50 PM Central Standard Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:


          it is not possible for a tank to be to small, but
          small minded people may put living creatures in a
          smaller tank than they belong in.
            a 750 ml tank is
          big enough for a single betta, or a single frog, or a
          single guppy, such as "aqua babies"
           

          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8181 From: Colleen Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: not green or milky
          I didnt have green or milky water and i wasnt overfeeding them paul my water was checked and was fine by the store they tested it for me.
          and it was being filtered so you tell me now i think it was their fish .
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: paul helms
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:45 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 588

          it is not possible for a tank to be to small, but
          small minded people may put living creatures in a
          smaller tank than they belong in.  a 750 ml tank is
          big enough for a single betta, or a single frog, or a
          single guppy, such as "aqua babies"  if your fish were
          dying in 3 weeks, the cycle was probably killing them
          from a spike of ammonia.  in addition, if the water
          was turning "green milky stuff", you were obviuosly
          not doing something right.  like maybe overfeeding, or
          leaving it in direct sunlight, or not filtering it.

          --- Nicolas Munro <nicolas.munro@...>
          wrote:

          > Buddie,
          >
          > Its NOT impossible for a tank to be too small...
          > your full of *!$!...
          > cause I had a little tank (750 mililetres) and no
          > what i did i couldn't
          > get any fish to survive more than 3 weeks. I always
          > had problems with
          > green milky algy type stuff and the water smelling
          > bad.  
          >
          > So i upgraded to something 300 to 400 times the
          > size, havn't looked
          > back yet.
          >
          > =Nick
          >
          > > Message: 7        
          > >    Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 04:37:00 EST
          > >    From: FortWayneFish@...
          > > Subject: Re: petco
          > >   Its impossible for your tank to be too
          > small...Its possible you are
          > putting
          > > to Big of fish, too many fish, or the wrong kind
          > of fish into it
          > ....
          > > What size tank? how many fish? what kind?
          > > rob
          > > NE Indiana, USa
          > > In a message dated 1/31/2005 1:46:03 AM Central
          > Standard Time,
          > > alaskaicekubes@... writes:
          > > > The fish guy at petco said my fish are dying
          > because my tank is to
          > small
          > > > have you ever heard this before anyone?
          >
          >



                     
          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
          http://my.yahoo.com




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8182 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: not green or milky
          For the number of fish you had, and the size of the tank, and the length of time you had it, it looks like you overstocked it. If the fish store where you were told you overstocked your (new?) tank also said your water was O.K., something does'nt jibe. Of course, fish like to swim, and it's hard to feel comfortable in a three-gallon tank if you've been used to swimming in a stream or river, and stress can take it's tole. It's like, how would you like to be locked up in a closet or small room. Zoos have learned, the more you make the animals environment like their original environment, the less psychotic and neurotic they become.
                                                 Joe Pascavage
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          I didnt have green or milky water and i wasnt overfeeding them paul my water was checked and was fine by the store they tested it for me.
          and it was being filtered so you tell me now i think it was their fish .
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: paul helms
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:45 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 588

          it is not possible for a tank to be to small, but
          small minded people may put living creatures in a
          smaller tank than they belong in.  a 750 ml tank is
          big enough for a single betta, or a single frog, or a
          single guppy, such as "aqua babies"  if your fish were
          dying in 3 weeks, the cycle was probably killing them
          from a spike of ammonia.  in addition, if the water
          was turning "green milky stuff", you were obviuosly
          not doing something right.  like maybe overfeeding, or
          leaving it in direct sunlight, or not filtering it.

          --- Nicolas Munro <nicolas.munro@...>
          wrote:

          > Buddie,
          >
          > Its NOT impossible for a tank to be too small...
          > your full of *!$!...
          > cause I had a little tank (750 mililetres) and no
          > what i did i couldn't
          > get any fish to survive more than 3 weeks. I always
          > had problems with
          > green milky algy type stuff and the water smelling
          > bad.  
          >
          > So i upgraded to something 300 to 400 times the
          > size, havn't looked
          > back yet.
          >
          > =Nick
          >
          > > Message: 7        
          > >    Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 04:37:00 EST
          > >    From: FortWayneFish@...
          > > Subject: Re: petco
          > >   Its impossible for your tank to be too
          > small...Its possible you are
          > putting
          > > to Big of fish, too many fish, or the wrong kind
          > of fish into it
          > ....
          > > What size tank? how many fish? what kind?
          > > rob
          > > NE Indiana, USa
          > > In a message dated 1/31/2005 1:46:03 AM Central
          > Standard Time,
          > > alaskaicekubes@... writes:
          > > > The fish guy at petco said my fish are dying
          > because my tank is to
          > small
          > > > have you ever heard this before anyone?
          >
          >



                     
          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
          http://my.yahoo.com




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8183 From: Colleen Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: not green or milky
          I have a platy, two neons and a bleeding heart  what is considered to small?
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 9:11 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] not green or milky

          For the number of fish you had, and the size of the tank, and the length of time you had it, it looks like you overstocked it. If the fish store where you were told you overstocked your (new?) tank also said your water was O.K., something does'nt jibe. Of course, fish like to swim, and it's hard to feel comfortable in a three-gallon tank if you've been used to swimming in a stream or river, and stress can take it's tole. It's like, how would you like to be locked up in a closet or small room. Zoos have learned, the more you make the animals environment like their original environment, the less psychotic and neurotic they become.
                                                 Joe Pascavage
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          I didnt have green or milky water and i wasnt overfeeding them paul my water was checked and was fine by the store they tested it for me.
          and it was being filtered so you tell me now i think it was their fish .
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: paul helms
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:45 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 588

          it is not possible for a tank to be to small, but
          small minded people may put living creatures in a
          smaller tank than they belong in.  a 750 ml tank is
          big enough for a single betta, or a single frog, or a
          single guppy, such as "aqua babies"  if your fish were
          dying in 3 weeks, the cycle was probably killing them
          from a spike of ammonia.  in addition, if the water
          was turning "green milky stuff", you were obviuosly
          not doing something right.  like maybe overfeeding, or
          leaving it in direct sunlight, or not filtering it.

          --- Nicolas Munro <nicolas.munro@...>
          wrote:

          > Buddie,
          >
          > Its NOT impossible for a tank to be too small...
          > your full of *!$!...
          > cause I had a little tank (750 mililetres) and no
          > what i did i couldn't
          > get any fish to survive more than 3 weeks. I always
          > had problems with
          > green milky algy type stuff and t >
          >



                     
          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
          http://my.yahoo.com




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8184 From: photo_muse Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
          Hey Joe!

          Thanks for the reply!

          I have a black thumb when it comes to almost any plants ... I'm
          rather scared to try!

          <<I did have success with Java-Moss and a UGF>>

          Was the Java-Moss hard to keep? I do not want to get rid of my
          underground filter (though who knows, I may change my mind!), so
          perhaps that would be a good choice! Any idea on the lighting
          thing? According to Plant Geek they need "low" light ...

          http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_search.php?search=java+moss

          Peggy :)
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8185 From: pickles Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
          Hey, If anyone needs some Anacharis, we have a pond full, (about 1/2 acre pond. with bass, blue gill ,crappy newts, and turtles....).I rinse it and use it in my tanks with no problems and I also trade it for horse feed, to my local feed store where he sells a few fish....the Spring and summer is best time to get it , but can get some now if anyone wants any...its free, just pay for shipping from Oregon.....its great for your out door ponds too.. it could be cheaper to get it from your local fish store, as I have no idea how much shipping is...but thought I would offer anyway....its the easiest plant I know of to grow in a tank and the fish love to eat it, esp goldfish! .... :>) Mary
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: photo_muse
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 10:55 PM
          Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrates & Plants


          Hey Joe!

          Thanks for the reply!

          I have a black thumb when it comes to almost any plants ... I'm
          rather scared to try!

          <<I did have success with Java-Moss and a UGF>>

          Was the Java-Moss hard to keep?  I do not want to get rid of my
          underground filter (though who knows, I may change my mind!), so
          perhaps that would be a good choice!  Any idea on the lighting
          thing?  According to Plant Geek they need "low" light ...

          http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_search.php?search=java+moss

          Peggy :)





          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8186 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
              It became luxuriant. I don't know if you know what I mean by a 'suction-cup-held', Penn-Plax caves, but I had an undergravel filter when I had that tank, and the only other plants I had for a short time (in that tank)were the 'so-called' Banana plants, which don't last and multiply in a tank.. Well back to the Hang-on Caves. I had a 20 or 30 gallon high tank, and the 'Caves' were suctioned to the upper-left rear of the tank. And on the back, just opposite the 'Caves', on the left side of the back, was a Whisper (Now owned by Tetra, I believe)  hang-on filter. The Moss seemed to like the outflow from the filter. I would periodically rinse the Moss under a faucet to which I had affixed an adapter, which allowed the attachment of a brass 'garden-hose' nozzle. The Nozzle could be adjusted to cause a high-pressure spray, that would dislodge any non-plant growth that could occur occasionally. I would then attach the moss, (which would be rather compact and tangled after rinsing0 to areas of the caves that have protruberances  that allow a kind of hooking anchorability. Then I would pull the moss apart, fluff it if you will, so the Platy-fry could hang out, and even swim about, 'till they were old enough to venture into the larger areas, and not be considered a meal by the earlier generations. The moss grew so profusely in that location, that I could sell or give away the overgrowth. The caves also served as a refuge for the fry, and any other fish that felt comfortable there.
                                Joe P
           
          -------------- Original message --------------

          Hey Joe!

          Thanks for the reply!

          I have a black thumb when it comes to almost any plants ... I'm
          rather scared to try!

          <<I did have success with Java-Moss and a UGF>>

          Was the Java-Moss hard to keep?  I do not want to get rid of my
          underground filter (though who knows, I may change my mind!), so
          perhaps that would be a good choice!  Any idea on the lighting
          thing?  According to Plant Geek they need "low" light ...

          http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_search.php?search=java+moss

          Peggy :)





          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8187 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
            PS
              Regarding Java-Moss and lighting, I remember I used at least one (maybe two) probably full spectrum flourescent, that fit into a standard plastic fixture, that ran the length of the tank.
                                                     Joe P
           
          -------------- Original message --------------

          Hey Joe!

          Thanks for the reply!

          I have a black thumb when it comes to almost any plants ... I'm
          rather scared to try!

          <<I did have success with Java-Moss and a UGF>>

          Was the Java-Moss hard to keep?  I do not want to get rid of my
          underground filter (though who knows, I may change my mind!), so
          perhaps that would be a good choice!  Any idea on the lighting
          thing?  According to Plant Geek they need "low" light ...

          http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_search.php?search=java+moss

          Peggy :)





          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8188 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: not green or milky
              If you have a hard time thinking about a larger tank for lack of money, the one-inch rule, while not exacting to absolute requirements, it would be something like;
               1 Platty = 1 to 3 inches = 1 to three gallons.
               2 Neons 1 1/2  to 2 inches = 3 to 4 gallons.
               I'm not familiar with 'Bleeding Hearts', but I guess they're somewhere between Neon and Cardinal Tetras, and the inch rule could serve as a quasi guideline.
              One of the mistakes people make when they enter the pastime/discipline, is overcrowding.
                                                JoeP
                   PS
                      One of the reasons the 'inch-rule' is'nt absolutely infallable is 'a goldfish at two inches may be more that four times the size of a two-inch Cardinal Tetra.
             Sort of like people say:
                     "Goldfish are dirty." But if all fish were dirty, people would thing they're dirty. Meaning they eat and drink more, and produce correspondingly more poop and pee.
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          I have a platy, two neons and a bleeding heart  what is considered to small?
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 9:11 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] not green or milky

          For the number of fish you had, and the size of the tank, and the length of time you had it, it looks like you overstocked it. If the fish store where you were told you overstocked your (new?) tank also said your water was O.K., something does'nt jibe. Of course, fish like to swim, and it's hard to feel comfortable in a three-gallon tank if you've been used to swimming in a stream or river, and stress can take it's tole. It's like, how would you like to be locked up in a closet or small room. Zoos have learned, the more you make the animals environment like their original environment, the less psychotic and neurotic they become.
                                                 Joe Pascavage
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          I didnt have green or milky water and i wasnt overfeeding them paul my water was checked and was fine by the store they tested it for me.
          and it was being filtered so you tell me now i think it was their fish .
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: paul helms
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:45 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 588

          it is not possible for a tank to be to small, but
          small minded people may put living creatures in a
          smaller tank than they belong in.  a 750 ml tank is
          big enough for a single betta, or a single frog, or a
          single guppy, such as "aqua babies"  if your fish were
          dying in 3 weeks, the cycle was probably killing them
          from a spike of ammonia.  in addition, if the water
          was turning "green milky stuff", you were obviuosly
          not doing something right.  like maybe overfeeding, or
          leaving it in direct sunlight, or not filtering it.

          --- Nicolas Munro <nicolas.munro@...>
          wrote:

          > Buddie,
          >
          > Its NOT impossible for a tank to be too small...
          > your full of *!$!...
          > cause I had a little tank (750 mililetres) and no
          > what i did i couldn't
          > get any fish to survive more than 3 weeks. I always
          > had problems with
          > green milky algy type stuff and t >
          >



                     
          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
          http://my.yahoo.com




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8189 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: not green or milky
                       The last paragraph in the letter directly should indicate:
              "If all fish were as big as goldfish.........not if all fish were dirty".
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
              If you have a hard time thinking about a larger tank for lack of money, the one-inch rule, while not exacting to absolute requirements, it would be something like;
               1 Platty = 1 to 3 inches = 1 to three gallons.
               2 Neons 1 1/2  to 2 inches = 3 to 4 gallons.
               I'm not familiar with 'Bleeding Hearts', but I guess they're somewhere between Neon and Cardinal Tetras, and the inch rule could serve as a quasi guideline.
              One of the mistakes people make when they enter the pastime/discipline, is overcrowding.
                                                JoeP
                   PS
                      One of the reasons the 'inch-rule' is'nt absolutely infallable is 'a goldfish at two inches may be more that four times the size of a two-inch Cardinal Tetra.
             Sort of like people say:
                     "Goldfish are dirty." But if all fish were dirty, people would thing they're dirty. Meaning they eat and drink more, and produce correspondingly more poop and pee.
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          I have a platy, two neons and a bleeding heart  what is considered to small?
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 9:11 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] not green or milky

          For the number of fish you had, and the size of the tank, and the length of time you had it, it looks like you overstocked it. If the fish store where you were told you overstocked your (new?) tank also said your water was O.K., something does'nt jibe. Of course, fish like to swim, and it's hard to feel comfortable in a three-gallon tank if you've been used to swimming in a stream or river, and stress can take it's tole. It's like, how would you like to be locked up in a closet or small room. Zoos have learned, the more you make the animals environment like their original environment, the less psychotic and neurotic they become.
                                                 Joe Pascavage
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          I didnt have green or milky water and i wasnt overfeeding them paul my water was checked and was fine by the store they tested it for me.
          and it was being filtered so you tell me now i think it was their fish .
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: paul helms
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:45 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 588

          it is not possible for a tank to be to small, but
          small minded people may put living creatures in a
          smaller tank than they belong in.  a 750 ml tank is
          big enough for a single betta, or a single frog, or a
          single guppy, such as "aqua babies"  if your fish were
          dying in 3 weeks, the cycle was probably killing them
          from a spike of ammonia.  in addition, if the water
          was turning "green milky stuff", you were obviuosly
          not doing something right.  like maybe overfeeding, or
          leaving it in direct sunlight, or not filtering it.

          --- Nicolas Munro <nicolas.munro@...>
          wrote:

          > Buddie,
          >
          > Its NOT impossible for a tank to be too small...
          > your full of *!$!...
          > cause I had a little tank (750 mililetres) and no
          > what i did i couldn't
          > get any fish to survive more than 3 weeks. I always
          > had problems with
          > green milky algy type stuff and t >
          >



                     
          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
          http://my.yahoo.com




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8190 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2005
          Subject: Re: not green or milky
           
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
                       The last paragraph in the letter directly below should indicate:
              "If all fish were as big as goldfish.........not if all fish were dirty".
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
              If you have a hard time thinking about a larger tank for lack of money, the one-inch rule, while not exacting to absolute requirements, it would be something like;
               1 Platty = 1 to 3 inches = 1 to three gallons.
               2 Neons 1 1/2  to 2 inches = 3 to 4 gallons.
               I'm not familiar with 'Bleeding Hearts', but I guess they're somewhere between Neon and Cardinal Tetras, and the inch rule could serve as a quasi guideline.
              One of the mistakes people make when they enter the pastime/discipline, is overcrowding.
                                                JoeP
                   PS
                      One of the reasons the 'inch-rule' is'nt absolutely infallable is 'a goldfish at two inches may be more that four times the size of a two-inch Cardinal Tetra.
             Sort of like people say:
                     "Goldfish are dirty." But if all fish were dirty, people would thing they're dirty. Meaning they eat and drink more, and produce correspondingly more poop and pee.
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          I have a platy, two neons and a bleeding heart  what is considered to small?
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 9:11 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] not green or milky

          For the number of fish you had, and the size of the tank, and the length of time you had it, it looks like you overstocked it. If the fish store where you were told you overstocked your (new?) tank also said your water was O.K., something does'nt jibe. Of course, fish like to swim, and it's hard to feel comfortable in a three-gallon tank if you've been used to swimming in a stream or river, and stress can take it's tole. It's like, how would you like to be locked up in a closet or small room. Zoos have learned, the more you make the animals environment like their original environment, the less psychotic and neurotic they become.
                                                 Joe Pascavage
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          I didnt have green or milky water and i wasnt overfeeding them paul my water was checked and was fine by the store they tested it for me.
          and it was being filtered so you tell me now i think it was their fish .
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: paul helms
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:45 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 588

          it is not possible for a tank to be to small, but
          small minded people may put living creatures in a
          smaller tank than they belong in.  a 750 ml tank is
          big enough for a single betta, or a single frog, or a
          single guppy, such as "aqua babies"  if your fish were
          dying in 3 weeks, the cycle was probably killing them
          from a spike of ammonia.  in addition, if the water
          was turning "green milky stuff", you were obviuosly
          not doing something right.  like maybe overfeeding, or
          leaving it in direct sunlight, or not filtering it.

          --- Nicolas Munro <nicolas.munro@...>
          wrote:

          > Buddie,
          >
          > Its NOT impossible for a tank to be too small...
          > your full of *!$!...
          > cause I had a little tank (750 mililetres) and no
          > what i did i couldn't
          > get any fish to survive more than 3 weeks. I always
          > had problems with
          > green milky algy type stuff and t >
          >



                     
          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
          http://my.yahoo.com




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8191 From: paul helms Date: 2/1/2005
          Subject: Re: not green or milky
          colleen, that post was directed to "nicolas munro"
          who rudely stated that posters wer full of "*!$!" for
          saying that there is no such thing as a tank that is
          too small. he was losing fish every 3 weeks and his
          water had a "green milky algae stuff"
          paul
          --- Colleen <alaskaicekubes@...> wrote:

          > I didnt have green or milky water and i wasnt
          > overfeeding them paul my water was checked and was
          > fine by the store they tested it for me.
          > and it was being filtered so you tell me now i think
          > it was their fish .
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: paul helms
          > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:45 PM
          > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 588
          >
          >
          > it is not possible for a tank to be to small, but
          > small minded people may put living creatures in a
          > smaller tank than they belong in. a 750 ml tank
          > is
          > big enough for a single betta, or a single frog,
          > or a
          > single guppy, such as "aqua babies" if your fish
          > were
          > dying in 3 weeks, the cycle was probably killing
          > them
          > from a spike of ammonia. in addition, if the
          > water
          > was turning "green milky stuff", you were
          > obviuosly
          > not doing something right. like maybe
          > overfeeding, or
          > leaving it in direct sunlight, or not filtering
          > it.
          >
          > --- Nicolas Munro
          > <nicolas.munro@...>
          > wrote:
          >
          > > Buddie,
          > >
          > > Its NOT impossible for a tank to be too small...
          > > your full of *!$!...
          > > cause I had a little tank (750 mililetres) and
          > no
          > > what i did i couldn't
          > > get any fish to survive more than 3 weeks. I
          > always
          > > had problems with
          > > green milky algy type stuff and the water
          > smelling
          > > bad.
          > >
          > > So i upgraded to something 300 to 400 times the
          > > size, havn't looked
          > > back yet.
          > >
          > > =Nick
          > >
          > > > Message: 7
          > > > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 04:37:00 EST
          > > > From: FortWayneFish@...
          > > > Subject: Re: petco
          > > > Its impossible for your tank to be too
          > > small...Its possible you are
          > > putting
          > > > to Big of fish, too many fish, or the wrong
          > kind
          > > of fish into it
          > > ....
          > > > What size tank? how many fish? what kind?
          > > > rob
          > > > NE Indiana, USa
          > > > In a message dated 1/31/2005 1:46:03 AM
          > Central
          > > Standard Time,
          > > > alaskaicekubes@... writes:
          > > > > The fish guy at petco said my fish are dying
          > > because my tank is to
          > > small
          > > > > have you ever heard this before anyone?
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
          > http://my.yahoo.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > please delete this line and everything below it
          > when replying, thanks
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
          >
          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
          > email to:
          > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
          > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
          >




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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8192 From: paul helms Date: 2/1/2005
          Subject: Re: 750ml tanks
          i agree with you there, infact i try to get people to
          go for 29 gallon minimum, i just realy don't like
          posts like that, and had to take issue. the guy
          obviously had no clue, and should have stated an
          opinion, not the way he did.
          paul
          --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:

          > Very Nicely said....................
          > My mother keeps bettas in tanks or barracks no
          > bigger then 750ml
          > My grandmother bought an AquaBaby 3 years ago and
          > her little Guppy is still
          > going strong. Original Guppy..
          >
          > I think AquaBabies are inhumane but as long as
          > people keep buying them, they
          > will be sold...
          >
          > So some people who know a little bit about fish or
          > get lucky Can keep things
          > alive in a 750ml tank.
          >
          >
          > Myself I prefer 10 gallons or more
          >
          > rob
          > NE Indiana
          > Usa
          >
          >
          >
          > In a message dated 1/31/2005 6:53:50 PM Central
          > Standard Time,
          > wtfmorlok@... writes:
          >
          >
          > > it is not possible for a tank to be to small, but
          > > small minded people may put living creatures in a
          > > smaller tank than they belong in. a 750 ml tank
          > is
          > > big enough for a single betta, or a single frog,
          > or a
          > > single guppy, such as "aqua babies"
          >
          >




          __________________________________
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          Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
          http://my.yahoo.com
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8193 From: Colleen Date: 2/1/2005
          Subject: Re: 750ml tanks
          we lost the platy last night
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: paul helms
          Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 9:04 AM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 750ml tanks

          i agree with you there, infact i try to get people to
          go for 29 gallon minimum, i just realy don't like
          posts like that, and had to take issue.  the guy
          obviously had no clue, and should have stated an
          opinion, not the way he did.
          paul
          --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:

          > Very Nicely said....................
          > My mother keeps bettas in tanks or barracks no
          > bigger then 750ml
          > My grandmother bought an AquaBaby 3 years ago and
          > her little Guppy is still
          > going strong. Original Guppy.. 
          >
          > I think AquaBabies are inhumane but as long as
          > people keep buying them, they
          > will be sold...
          >
          > So some people who know a little bit about fish or
          > get lucky Can keep things
          > alive in a 750ml tank. 
          >
          >
          > Myself I prefer 10 gallons or more
          >
          > rob
          > NE Indiana
          > Usa
          >
          >
          >
          > In a message dated 1/31/2005 6:53:50 PM Central
          > Standard Time,
          > wtfmorlok@... writes:
          >
          >
          > > it is not possible for a tank to be to small, but
          > > small minded people may put living creatures in a
          > > smaller tank than they belong in.  a 750 ml tank
          > is
          > > big enough for a single betta, or a single frog,
          > or a
          > > single guppy, such as "aqua babies" 
          >
          >



                     
          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
          http://my.yahoo.com




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8194 From: Colleen Date: 2/1/2005
          Subject: Re: not green or milky
          oh ok
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: paul helms
          Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 9:03 AM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] not green or milky

          colleen, that post was directed to  "nicolas munro"
          who rudely stated that posters wer full of  "*!$!" for
          saying that there is no such thing as a tank that is
          too small.  he was losing fish every 3 weeks and his
          water had a "green milky algae stuff"
          paul
          --- Colleen <alaskaicekubes@...> wrote:

          > I didnt have green or milky water and i wasnt
          > overfeeding them paul my water was checked and was
          > fine by the store they tested it for me.
          > and it was being filtered so you tell me now i think
          > it was their fish .
          >
          >   ----- Original Message -----
          >   From: paul helms
          >   To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
          >   Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:45 PM
          >   Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 588
          >
          >
          >   it is not possible for a tank to be to small, but
          >   small minded people may put living creatures in a
          >   smaller tank than they belong in.  a 750 ml tank
          > is
          >   big enough for a single betta, or a single frog,
          > or a
          >   single guppy, such as "aqua babies"  if your fish
          > were
          >   dying in 3 weeks, the cycle was probably killing
          > them
          >   from a spike of ammonia.  in addition, if the
          > water
          >   was turning "green milky stuff", you were
          > obviuosly
          >   not doing something right.  like maybe
          > overfeeding, or
          >   leaving it in direct sunlight, or not filtering
          > it.
          >
          >   --- Nicolas Munro
          > <nicolas.munro@...>
          >   wrote:
          >
          >   > Buddie,
          >   >
          >   > Its NOT impossible for a tank to be too small...
          >   > your full of *!$!...
          >   > cause I had a little tank (750 mililetres) and
          > no
          >   > what i did i couldn't
          >   > get any fish to survive more than 3 weeks. I
          > always
          >   > had problems with
          >   > green milky algy type stuff and the water
          > smelling
          >   > bad.  
          >   >
          >   > So i upgraded to something 300 to 400 times the
          >   > size, havn't looked
          >   > back yet.
          >   >
          >   > =Nick
          >   >
          >   > > Message: 7        
          >   > >    Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 04:37:00 EST
          >   > >    From: FortWayneFish@...
          >   > > Subject: Re: petco
          >   > >   Its impossible for your tank to be too
          >   > small...Its possible you are
          >   > putting
          >   > > to Big of fish, too many fish, or the wrong
          > kind
          >   > of fish into it
          >   > ....
          >   > > What size tank? how many fish? what kind?
          >   > > rob
          >   > > NE Indiana, USa
          >   > > In a message dated 1/31/2005 1:46:03 AM
          > Central
          >   > Standard Time,
          >   > > alaskaicekubes@... writes:
          >   > > > The fish guy at petco said my fish are dying
          >   > because my tank is to
          >   > small
          >   > > > have you ever heard this before anyone?
          >   >
          >   >
          >
          >
          >
          >              
          >   __________________________________
          >   Do you Yahoo!?
          >   The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
          >   http://my.yahoo.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >   please delete this line and everything below it
          > when replying, thanks
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >   Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
          >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
          >      
          >     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
          > email to:
          >     AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >      
          >     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
          > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
          >



                     
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          Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
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          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8195 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/1/2005
          Subject: Alaskaicekubes
          I'm sorry for your loss. 3 gallon tank is small, your fish load has to be small. 1 platty would be about all you could keep in a 3 gallon tank.
          Your tank sounds like it is stil cycling.
          With a lowerr biological load ( less fish ) your tank might be able to complete the cycling process without any more fish losses. For a 3 gallon tank I'd opt for 4-5 whiteclouds or a 2 endler' guppies, maybe 1 betta.  You might be able to get away with a 4-5 neon tetras after the tank has completely cycled.

          the key is completely cycled.....

          rob
          Indiana

          In a message dated 2/1/2005 1:46:09 PM US Eastern Standard Time, alaskaicekubes@... writes:


          we lost the platy last night


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8196 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/1/2005
          Subject: CYCLING your tank basic info
          Cycle a fish tank:    http://boeing_dude.tripod.com/id28.htm

          easy to read and hopefully easy to understand
          Basics of cycling a tank


          rob
          Indiana
          USa

          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8197 From: antonios75@yahoo.com Date: 2/1/2005
          Subject: Check out Reef Gossip's Tank of the month
          Register your tank for tank of the month today!

          http://www.reefgossip.com/TankOfTheMonthFeb05.htm
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8198 From: pickles Date: 2/1/2005
          Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
          They are selling a few of those Penn Plax caves on Ebay right now of anyone is interested...I used to have them in a couple of tanks and the fish really liked hiding in it....Mary
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:21 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrates & Plants

              It became luxuriant. I don't know if you know what I mean by a 'suction-cup-held', Penn-Plax caves, but I had an undergravel filter when I had that tank, and the only other plants I had for a short time (in that tank)were the 'so-called' Banana plants, which don't last and multiply in a tank.. Well back to the Hang-on Caves. I had a 20 or 30 gallon high tank, and the 'Caves' were suctioned to the upper-left rear of the tank. And on the back, just opposite the 'Caves', on the left side of the back, was a Whisper (Now owned by Tetra, I believe)  hang-on filter. The Moss seemed to like the outflow from the filter. I would periodically rinse the Moss under a faucet to which I had affixed an adapter, which allowed the attachment of a brass 'garden-hose' nozzle. The Nozzle could be adjusted to cause a high-pressure spray, that would dislodge any non-plant growth that could occur occasionally. I would then attach the moss, (which would be rather compact! and tangled after rinsing0 to areas of the caves that have protruberances  that allow a kind of hooking anchorability. Then I would pull the moss apart, fluff it if you will, so the Platy-fry could hang out, and even swim about, 'till they were old enough to venture into the larger areas, and not be considered a meal by the earlier generations. The moss grew so profusely in that location, that I could sell or give away the overgrowth. The caves also served as a refuge for the fry, and any other fish that felt comfortable there.
                                Joe P
           
          -------------- Original message --------------

          Hey Joe!

          Thanks for the reply!

          I have a black thumb when it comes to almost any plants ... I'm
          rather scared to try!

          <<I did have success with Java-Moss and a UGF>>

          Was the Java-Moss hard to keep?  I do not want to get rid of my
          underground filter (though who knows, I may change my mind!), so
          perhaps that would be a good choice!  Any idea on the lighting
          thing?  According to Plant Geek they need "low" light ...

          http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_search.php?search=java+moss

          Peggy :)





          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8199 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/1/2005
          Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
             I entered Penn Plax and Penn Plax caves on eBay, and did'nt find the caves under Penn Plax, and found "0" entries under 'Penn Plax caves'.
              Can you provide a link to the eBay entrie/s?
                                          Joe P
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          They are selling a few of those Penn Plax caves on Ebay right now of anyone is interested...I used to have them in a couple of tanks and the fish really liked hiding in it....Mary
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:21 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrates & Plants

              It became luxuriant. I don't know if you know what I mean by a 'suction-cup-held', Penn-Plax caves, but I had an undergravel filter when I had that tank, and the only other plants I had for a short time (in that tank)were the 'so-called' Banana plants, which don't last and multiply in a tank.. Well back to the Hang-on Caves. I had a 20 or 30 gallon high tank, and the 'Caves' were suctioned to the upper-left rear of the tank. And on the back, just opposite the 'Caves', on the left side of the back, was a Whisper (Now owned by Tetra, I believe)  hang-on filter. The Moss seemed to like the outflow from the filter. I would periodically rinse the Moss under a faucet to which I had affixed an adapter, which allowed the attachment of a brass 'garden-hose' nozzle. The Nozzle could be adjusted to cause a high-pressure spray, that would dislodge any non-plant growth that could occur occasionally. I would then attach the moss, (which would be rather compact! and tangled after rinsing0 to areas of the caves that have protruberances  that allow a kind of hooking anchorability. Then I would pull the moss apart, fluff it if you will, so the Platy-fry could hang out, and even swim about, 'till they were old enough to venture into the larger areas, and not be considered a meal by the earlier generations. The moss grew so profusely in that location, that I could sell or give away the overgrowth. The caves also served as a refuge for the fry, and any other fish that felt comfortable there.
                                Joe P
           
          -------------- Original message --------------

          Hey Joe!

          Thanks for the reply!

          I have a black thumb when it comes to almost any plants ... I'm
          rather scared to try!

          <<I did have success with Java-Moss and a UGF>>

          Was the Java-Moss hard to keep?  I do not want to get rid of my
          underground filter (though who knows, I may change my mind!), so
          perhaps that would be a good choice!  Any idea on the lighting
          thing?  According to Plant Geek they need "low" light ...

          http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_search.php?search=java+moss

          Peggy :)





          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8200 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/1/2005
          Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
            I tried eBay, under 'aquarium decorations', and found three entries for;
                                      Penn Plax Caves,
                                                    they are:
           
                                                  4354124415
                                                  4354413032
                                                  4354890699
           
                                                          Joe Pascavage
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          They are selling a few of those Penn Plax caves on Ebay right now of anyone is interested...I used to have them in a couple of tanks and the fish really liked hiding in it....Mary
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:21 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrates & Plants

              It became luxuriant. I don't know if you know what I mean by a 'suction-cup-held', Penn-Plax caves, but I had an undergravel filter when I had that tank, and the only other plants I had for a short time (in that tank)were the 'so-called' Banana plants, which don't last and multiply in a tank.. Well back to the Hang-on Caves. I had a 20 or 30 gallon high tank, and the 'Caves' were suctioned to the upper-left rear of the tank. And on the back, just opposite the 'Caves', on the left side of the back, was a Whisper (Now owned by Tetra, I believe)  hang-on filter. The Moss seemed to like the outflow from the filter. I would periodically rinse the Moss under a faucet to which I had affixed an adapter, which allowed the attachment of a brass 'garden-hose' nozzle. The Nozzle could be adjusted to cause a high-pressure spray, that would dislodge any non-plant growth that could occur occasionally. I would then attach the moss, (which would be rather compact! and tangled after rinsing0 to areas of the caves that have protruberances  that allow a kind of hooking anchorability. Then I would pull the moss apart, fluff it if you will, so the Platy-fry could hang out, and even swim about, 'till they were old enough to venture into the larger areas, and not be considered a meal by the earlier generations. The moss grew so profusely in that location, that I could sell or give away the overgrowth. The caves also served as a refuge for the fry, and any other fish that felt comfortable there.
                                Joe P
           
          -------------- Original message --------------

          Hey Joe!

          Thanks for the reply!

          I have a black thumb when it comes to almost any plants ... I'm
          rather scared to try!

          <<I did have success with Java-Moss and a UGF>>

          Was the Java-Moss hard to keep?  I do not want to get rid of my
          underground filter (though who knows, I may change my mind!), so
          perhaps that would be a good choice!  Any idea on the lighting
          thing?  According to Plant Geek they need "low" light ...

          http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_search.php?search=java+moss

          Peggy :)





          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8201 From: pickles Date: 2/1/2005
          Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
          try aquarium decoration , I got 6 pages... on  page 2 there are terraces and on page 6 there a few Cliffs and Caves....:>) ...Mary
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 8:23 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrates & Plants

             I entered Penn Plax and Penn Plax caves on eBay, and did'nt find the caves under Penn Plax, and found "0" entries under 'Penn Plax caves'.
              Can you provide a link to the eBay entrie/s?
                                          Joe P
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          They are selling a few of those Penn Plax caves on Ebay right now of anyone is interested...I used to have them in a couple of tanks and the fish really liked hiding in it....Mary
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:21 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrates & Plants

              It became luxuriant. I don't know if you know what I mean by a 'suction-cup-held', Penn-Plax caves, but I had an undergravel filter when I had that tank, and the only other plants I had for a short time (in that tank)were the 'so-called' Banana plants, which don't last and multiply in a tank.. Well back to the Hang-on Caves. I had a 20 or 30 gallon high tank, and the 'Caves' were suctioned to the upper-left rear of the tank. And on the back, just opposite the 'Caves', on the left side of the back, was a Whisper (Now owned by Tetra, I believe)  hang-on filter. The Moss seemed to like the outflow from the filter. I would periodically rinse the Moss under a faucet to which I had affixed an adapter, which allowed the attachment of a brass 'garden-hose' nozzle. The Nozzle could be adjusted to cause a high-pressure spray, that would dislodge any non-plant growth that could occur occasionally. I would then attach the moss, (which would be rather compact! ! and tangled after rinsing0 to areas of the caves that have protruberances  that allow a kind of hooking anchorability. Then I would pull the moss apart, fluff it if you will, so the Platy-fry could hang out, and even swim about, 'till they were old enough to venture into the larger areas, and not be considered a meal by the earlier generations. The moss grew so profusely in that location, that I could sell or give away the overgrowth. The caves also served as a refuge for the fry, and any other fish that felt comfortable there.
                                Joe P
           
          -------------- Original message --------------

          Hey Joe!

          Thanks for the reply!

          I have a black thumb when it comes to almost any plants ... I'm
          rather scared to try!

          <<I did have success with Java-Moss and a UGF>>

          Was the Java-Moss hard to keep?  I do not want to get rid of my
          underground filter (though who knows, I may change my mind!), so
          perhaps that would be a good choice!  Any idea on the lighting
          thing?  According to Plant Geek they need "low" light ...

          http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_search.php?search=java+moss

          Peggy :)





          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it ! when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8202 From: pickles Date: 2/1/2005
          Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
          lol. thats how I found them! I just emailed it to the list too! ..Mary
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 8:33 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrates & Plants

            I tried eBay, under 'aquarium decorations', and found three entries for;
                                      Penn Plax Caves,
                                                    they are:
           
                                                  4354124415
                                                  4354413032
                                                  4354890699
           
                                                          Joe Pascavage
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          They are selling a few of those Penn Plax caves on Ebay right now of anyone is interested...I used to have them in a couple of tanks and the fish really liked hiding in it....Mary
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:21 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrates & Plants

              It became luxuriant. I don't know if you know what I mean by a 'suction-cup-held', Penn-Plax caves, but I had an undergravel filter when I had that tank, and the only other plants I had for a short time (in that tank)were the 'so-called' Banana plants, which don't last and multiply in a tank.. Well back to the Hang-on Caves. I had a 20 or 30 gallon high tank, and the 'Caves' were suctioned to the upper-left rear of the tank. And on the back, just opposite the 'Caves', on the left side of the back, was a Whisper (Now owned by Tetra, I believe)  hang-on filter. The Moss seemed to like the outflow from the filter. I would periodically rinse the Moss under a faucet to which I had affixed an adapter, which allowed the attachment of a brass 'garden-hose' nozzle. The Nozzle could be adjusted to cause a high-pressure spray, that would dislodge any non-plant growth that could occur occasionally. I would then attach the moss, (which would be rather compact! ! and tangled after rinsing0 to areas of the caves that have protruberances  that allow a kind of hooking anchorability. Then I would pull the moss apart, fluff it if you will, so the Platy-fry could hang out, and even swim about, 'till they were old enough to venture into the larger areas, and not be considered a meal by the earlier generations. The moss grew so profusely in that location, that I could sell or give away the overgrowth. The caves also served as a refuge for the fry, and any other fish that felt comfortable there.
                                Joe P
           
          -------------- Original message --------------

          Hey Joe!

          Thanks for the reply!

          I have a black thumb when it comes to almost any plants ... I'm
          rather scared to try!

          <<I did have success with Java-Moss and a UGF>>

          Was the Java-Moss hard to keep?  I do not want to get rid of my
          underground filter (though who knows, I may change my mind!), so
          perhaps that would be a good choice!  Any idea on the lighting
          thing?  According to Plant Geek they need "low" light ...

          http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_search.php?search=java+moss

          Peggy :)





          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it ! when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8203 From: Colleen Date: 2/1/2005
          Subject: Re: Alaskaicekubes
          What does that mean completely cycled?
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 10:08 AM
          Subject: [AquaticLife] Alaskaicekubes

          I'm sorry for your loss. 3 gallon tank is small, your fish load has to be small. 1 platty would be about all you could keep in a 3 gallon tank.
          Your tank sounds like it is stil cycling.
          With a lowerr biological load ( less fish ) your tank might be able to complete the cycling process without any more fish losses. For a 3 gallon tank I'd opt for 4-5 whiteclouds or a 2 endler' guppies, maybe 1 betta.  You might be able to get away with a 4-5 neon tetras after the tank has completely cycled.

          the key is completely cycled.....

          rob
          Indiana

          In a message dated 2/1/2005 1:46:09 PM US Eastern Standard Time, alaskaicekubes@... writes:


          we lost the platy last night




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8204 From: photo_muse Date: 2/1/2005
          Subject: Re: Nitrates & Plants
          Maybe I'll try some Java Moss ... and see if I can keep it alive! <g>

          Peggy :)

          (Good thing I don't have a "black thumb" for fish!)
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8205 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/1/2005
          Subject: Re: Alaskaicekubes
          It takes roughly 30-60 days for a tank to cycle ( to go through the ups and downs of ammonia,nitrates,nitrites ) During the "CYCLE" alot of people loose fish.
          I sent a link to an article about Cycling in a previous post I'd suggest evryone read it, even some of the experts could use some reading. 
          Cycle a fish tank:    if link doesn't work or is broken please cut/paste web address into browser

          http://boeing_dude.tripod.com/id28.htm


          rob


          In a message dated 2/2/2005 2:18:17 AM US Eastern Standard Time, alaskaicekubes@... writes:


          What does that mean completely cycled?


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8206 From: boy2coool Date: 2/2/2005
          Subject: Re: Help Goldfish disease
          The Tank size is 30G. There are 4 medium sized Gold fishes and one
          3spot Gourami in the tank. The filtration type is sponge filter(BOYU)
          I change 50% water once in 3 weeks. Sorry for the delayed reply...I
          was out of station for the past 3 days. When I returned I found one
          more dead goldfish in the tank, am Confused!

          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <steve@f...> wrote:
          > Blood streaks in the fins are a bad sign in goldfish. At the least
          it means
          > they are stressed. To adequately diagnose, or even attempt to
          diagnose, the
          > problem, more information is needed. What is the size of the tank,
          what are
          > your water parameters--ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, temperature.
          What are
          > the size of the fish? What do you have for filtration? How much
          water do you
          > change and how often. What else is in the tank besides the goldfish? Are
          > there any other symptoms other than what you have already mentioned.
          >
          > The more information available, the more likely there will be a
          diagnosis
          > that can help you.
          >
          > One thing that might be helpful is for you to do a large water
          change, on
          > the order of 25-50%, after you get the water measurements done, which
          > generally helps the fish.
          >
          > \\Steve//
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: boy2coool [mailto:boy2coool@y...]
          > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 2:24 PM
          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [AquaticLife] Help Goldfish disease
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > My fantail Goldfish is sick and its not taking food and the symptoms
          > are like the caudal fins which is usually white in color has changed
          > to a dirty color with brownish red streaks. It spends most of it's
          > time down on the bottom corner of the tank. Actually two of the
          > goldfishes had the same symptoms, I tried salt treatment but it didn't
          > work one of them died. What could be done so that i ensure atleast i
          > could save the other ones life.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8207 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 2/2/2005
          Subject: Recommendations for looking after newborn guppies?
          Hi,

          Wow, my guppies are having babys! Lastnight I had two babys, this
          morning there must be about 7 or 8.

          Got one of those breding tanks you put inside the community tank. Its
          got a v bottom with a hole in the bottom of the V to let the babys fall
          to the bottom but keep the mother away. The babys are then protected by
          a second section of the breding tank which allows them to swim around.


          What do I feed the babys? Ive got flakes and some pallets at home, will
          they do?


          Nick
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8208 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/2/2005
          Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting, 2/5/2005, 6:30 pm
          Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
          Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting

          Saturday February 5, 2005
          6:30 pm - 8:30 pm
          This event repeats on the first Saturday of every month.

          Event Location: MEETING LOCATION: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Ave., San Jose CA, USA
          Street: MEETING LOCATION: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Ave.
          City, State, Zip: San Jose, CA

          Notes:
          Silicon Valley Aquarium Society meetings are held the first Saturday of every month in San Jose. See http://www.svas.info for more information

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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8209 From: paul helms Date: 2/2/2005
          Subject: Re: Recommendations for looking after newborn guppies?
          finely crushed flake twice a day will do just fine

          --- Nicolas Munro <nicolas.munro@...>
          wrote:

          > Hi,
          >
          > Wow, my guppies are having babys! Lastnight I had
          > two babys, this
          > morning there must be about 7 or 8.
          >
          > Got one of those breding tanks you put inside the
          > community tank. Its
          > got a v bottom with a hole in the bottom of the V to
          > let the babys fall
          > to the bottom but keep the mother away. The babys
          > are then protected by
          > a second section of the breding tank which allows
          > them to swim around.
          >
          >
          > What do I feed the babys? Ive got flakes and some
          > pallets at home, will
          > they do?
          >
          >
          > Nick
          >




          __________________________________
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8210 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: Re: Recommendations for looking after newborn guppies?
          Thanks Paul, any one else got any ideas?

          The guppies have doubled in size between when i left for work and
          arrived back.

          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...>
          wrote:
          > finely crushed flake twice a day will do just fine
          >
          > --- Nicolas Munro <nicolas.munro@d...>
          > wrote:
          >
          > > Hi,
          > >
          > > Wow, my guppies are having babys!
          > > ,,,
          > > What do I feed the babys? Ive got flakes and some
          > > pallets at home, will they do?
          > >
          > >
          > > Nick
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8211 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: Re: Recommendations for looking after newborn guppies?
          I've never done it for Guppies, but one of the most frequently
          mentioned prictices, in my memory, was getting a 'brine-shrimp'
          hatchery, and feeding baby brine-shrimp to fry.
          I don't know the brine-shrimp size relationship to Guppy fry, but
          maybe someone here can fill you in. If your tank has cycled, you may
          have an abundant supple of edible micro-organisms the fry will
          sense. Some of the white scum that normally forms in aquaria and
          filters ........I've seen fish eating.
          Also. There are foods specially prepared for fry, that may
          contain more nutrients than adult food, and is composed to
          accomodate the rapid growth of young fish.
          Joe Pascavage http://j.pascavage.home.att.net

          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas J. Munro"
          <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
          >
          > Thanks Paul, any one else got any ideas?
          >
          > The guppies have doubled in size between when i left for work and
          > arrived back.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8212 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: Re: Recommendations for looking after newborn guppies?
          LOL, Nick, I wouldn't worry about it. As long as they have some
          plants to hide in, they'll be fine. We carefully fished our babies
          out the first time, and protected them...but then the population
          exploded. Sheesh! Guppies are breeding machines!
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8213 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: Re: Recommendations for looking after newborn guppies?
          finely crushed flakes will do for your newborns. One advantage of livebearers are that the newborns are all ready big enough to eat on there own.
          Newly hatched Brine shrimp isn't needed to feed your guppies. It would be eaten  and would be good for them, but not needed for your young. Mostly BBS( baby brine shrimp ) are fed to smaller kinds of babies( cichlids,cory cats, etc ) as a first food...
          Most Livebearers( guppies,swordtails,plattys ) are Giant compared to most other fish babies..


          Hope this helps
          rob
          Indiana

          In a message dated 2/3/2005 1:56:20 AM US Eastern Standard Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:


          What do I feed the babys? Ive got flakes and some
          > pallets at home, will
          > they do? 
          >
          >
          > Nick
          >


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8214 From: griselle cottingham Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: Re: Recommendations for looking after newborn guppies?
          Hi Nick,
          My female guppy has given birth twice, last
          year and 3 weeks ago, both times I was able to confine
          her on the end of my tank. I have a 55 gallon and
          whenever I can, I wait till she starts looking for a
          place to go into labor, I divide the tank with a tank
          divider and it helps sooo much, because she is able to
          relax and not worry about any other fish harrassing
          her. I have it set up like a little jungle in the
          corner of the tank, a.k.a "the nursery" like I call
          it... but it helps. When shes done I leave her with
          them which doesnt really matter because the fry hide
          within all the greenery I provided. As for fry food I
          just put some flakes in a zip lock bag and manually
          mash it for about 5-10 minutes and presto! you have
          powder flakes and it is small enough for them to eat.
          I feed them twice a day and I can proudly say I have
          17 thriving baby guppies. I hope this helps a bit, and
          GOOD LUCK!!

          Rebeca
          --- Nicolas Munro <nicolas.munro@...>
          wrote:

          > Hi,
          >
          > Wow, my guppies are having babys! Lastnight I had
          > two babys, this
          > morning there must be about 7 or 8.
          >
          > Got one of those breding tanks you put inside the
          > community tank. Its
          > got a v bottom with a hole in the bottom of the V to
          > let the babys fall
          > to the bottom but keep the mother away. The babys
          > are then protected by
          > a second section of the breding tank which allows
          > them to swim around.
          >
          >
          > What do I feed the babys? Ive got flakes and some
          > pallets at home, will
          > they do?
          >
          >
          > Nick
          >




          __________________________________
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          The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8215 From: Tri mac Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: The fish pic on this home page!!!
          Hi
          The fish pic on this home page!!! With the stingray...
          I was just wondering what that black and yellow, Eel? is it? Or goby?
          I was just wondering what that fish is.

          THanks
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8216 From: eric douglas Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: Re: Recommendations for looking after newborn guppies?
          if u want to keep them get them into another tanks
          ASAP.
          --- Nicolas Munro <nicolas.munro@...>
          wrote:

          > Hi,
          >
          > Wow, my guppies are having babys! Lastnight I had
          > two babys, this
          > morning there must be about 7 or 8.
          >
          > Got one of those breding tanks you put inside the
          > community tank. Its
          > got a v bottom with a hole in the bottom of the V to
          > let the babys fall
          > to the bottom but keep the mother away. The babys
          > are then protected by
          > a second section of the breding tank which allows
          > them to swim around.
          >
          >
          > What do I feed the babys? Ive got flakes and some
          > pallets at home, will
          > they do?
          >
          >
          > Nick
          >




          __________________________________
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          The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8217 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: Cycling with Mollies
          Hi Guys,

          quick question/comment. So I decided to purchase 3 black mollies yesterday for my 75 g tank to get that cycling process going. Sadly, one of the mollies died in the first 2 hours. I am happy to report that the other two made it through the first night. Given this, I think I may have been taken though. The Molly that died was a crisp and rich black, beautiful little fish. The other two have these little marks or patches on white/silver on them. Is this normal for Mollies? Are they sick? Will this go away on its own? Is it ich or somethig else? Do I need to remove them from the tank or medicate them. At this time there are no other fish in the tank and just plant live (dwarf hair grass and amazon sword plants)

          thanks

          Ken
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8218 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: Digest Number 591 - FEEDING NEW GUPPIES
          In a message dated 2/3/05 5:55:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com writes:


           From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
          Subject: Re: Recommendations for looking after newborn guppies?

          finely crushed flake twice a day will do just fine


          You can also check your pet store for fry food.  It's a liquid - comes in a package or tube.  Two types - one for live bearers, one for egg layers.  Just squirt it in the water close to the fry.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8219 From: ben_noreau Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: Breeding fish
          Hello,

          I have just acqired a 55 gallon tank, due to the fact that I will
          be moving shortly I havent set it up yet. I am going to wait until I
          am moved.

          What I am planning is I would like to stock it with molly's,
          sword tails, platy's, neon and glow light tetras. I would like to
          also have some bottom feeders and octicinclus. I know that it is
          difficult to breed the neons and glow lights. I am looking at
          breeding the molly's, sword tails and the platy's. I would like to
          have the tank set up so that it self stocks. I also have a 29 gallon
          tank for overflow if the 55 gallon gets over populated.

          I dont know what is involved with doing this and any advice would
          be appreciated. I want to do it properly so that the fish will be
          safe. Specifically I am looking for what special care (like water
          conditions) is needed and if there is any additional supplies needed
          for breeding. I have all of the basic necessary equipment. (tank,
          heater, filter, flake food etc.)

          Thanks in advance for any info.

          Ben
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8220 From: ben_noreau Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: Re: Looking for Information
          Hi,

          I just wanted to mention a site that I found that contained some
          good information and what I thought to be decent pictures.

          http://www.solodvds.com/

          Contrary to what the name says it has nothing to do with dvd's.
          It is a guide to tropical and marine fish.

          Ben
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8221 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: Re: Baby guppies!
          Had a look at the babys, they have eaten some of the flake bits I put
          in there nursery, kinda see threw tummies all purple flake coloured...
          looks funny. Think either a couple had escaped or the mother eat
          them, my wife was horrified.

          I have quite a few plants in my tank and found a small guppie from the
          last batch still running around in them.

          I spent the next 3 hours with my wife trying to catch two other
          pregnent guppies with out success, they are so fast!



          > Message: 6
          > Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 12:31:34 -0000
          > From: "cynthia brennemann" <brennewoman@...>
          > LOL, Nick, I wouldn't worry about it. As long as they have some
          plants to hide in, they'll be fine. We carefully fished our babies out
          the first time, and protected them...but then the population exploded.
          Sheesh! Guppies are breeding machines!
          > ---
          > Message: 7
          > Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 09:07:43 EST
          > From: FortWayneFish@...
          > finely crushed flakes will do for your newborns. ... Mostly BBS (baby
          brine shrimp ) are fed to smaller kinds of babies ...
          > Most Livebearers( guppies,swordtails,plattys ) are Giant compared to
          most other fish babies..
          > rob, Indiana
          > ---
          > Message: 8
          > Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:20:43 -0800 (PST)
          > From: griselle cottingham <gcorchado@...>
          > My female guppy has given birth twice, last
          > year and 3 weeks ago, both times I was able to confine her on the end
          of my tank....
          > Rebeca
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8222 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: Re: Baby guppies!
          I have a pregnant female and she is huge ready to pop soon, she was in
          the corner of the tank by herself looking like she was ready to give
          birth so I put her in a breeding net inside the tank but it's been 2
          days now and nothing but she looks stressed so I guess I'll have to
          take her out and try to find the babies who haven't been eatin in the
          main tank when she has them. =:O( I thought it would be easy to get
          them out of there rather than only finding a few that haven't been
          eatin in the main tank......SO much for that!!!!!



          > Had a look at the babys, they have eaten some of the flake bits I put
          > in there nursery, kinda see threw tummies all purple flake coloured...
          > looks funny. Think either a couple had escaped or the mother eat
          > them, my wife was horrified.
          >
          > I have quite a few plants in my tank and found a small guppie from the
          > last batch still running around in them.
          >
          > I spent the next 3 hours with my wife trying to catch two other
          > pregnent guppies with out success, they are so fast!
          >
          >
          >
          > > Message: 6
          > > Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 12:31:34 -0000
          > > From: "cynthia brennemann" <brennewoman@h...>
          > > LOL, Nick, I wouldn't worry about it. As long as they have some
          > plants to hide in, they'll be fine. We carefully fished our babies out
          > the first time, and protected them...but then the population exploded.
          > Sheesh! Guppies are breeding machines!
          > > ---
          > > Message: 7
          > > Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 09:07:43 EST
          > > From: FortWayneFish@a...
          > > finely crushed flakes will do for your newborns. ... Mostly BBS (baby
          > brine shrimp ) are fed to smaller kinds of babies ...
          > > Most Livebearers( guppies,swordtails,plattys ) are Giant compared to
          > most other fish babies..
          > > rob, Indiana
          > > ---
          > > Message: 8
          > > Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:20:43 -0800 (PST)
          > > From: griselle cottingham <gcorchado@y...>
          > > My female guppy has given birth twice, last
          > > year and 3 weeks ago, both times I was able to confine her on the end
          > of my tank....
          > > Rebeca
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8223 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: Re: Breeding fish
             If you keep your tank clean, you won't have to worry about Plattys' at least, insofar as self-stocking. You'll need a place to give or sell the offspring. What you mentioned about the fish you want......There are too many in your list to start a tank. They'd start dying from overstocking because the bacteria that must handle the fish waste can't multiply fast enough  to keep abreast of waste production. You can start with no or one or two fish, (small), and get yourself test kits to measure water conditions, especially ammonia and nitrite (not nitrate) for starters, as those are the two most dangerous materials that occur when starting an aquarium. Of course, you should be aware of PH needs first, and chlorine or chloramine eliminatiuon,  and nitrate to some extent. Water-hardness can be a problem if your local water does'nt have the hardness values for the fish you're keeping.
             Some will tell you one thing, others another, but books on the subject of fish feeding indicate that, even though processed foods work, finding foods that resemble the animals natural diet are desireable, and a varied diet of the right things is also desireable.
                                          Joe Pascavage
           
           
          -------------- Original message --------------

          Hello,

               I have just acqired a 55 gallon tank, due to the fact that I will
          be moving shortly I havent set it up yet.  I am going to wait until I
          am moved.

               What I am planning is I would like to stock it with molly's,
          sword tails, platy's, neon and glow light tetras.  I would like to
          also have some bottom feeders and octicinclus.  I know that it is
          difficult to breed the neons and glow lights.  I am looking at
          breeding the molly's, sword tails and the platy's.  I would like to
          have the tank set up so that it self stocks.  I also have a 29 gallon
          tank for overflow if the 55 gallon gets over populated.

               I dont know what is involved with doing this and any advice would
          be appreciated.  I want to do it properly so that the fish will be
          safe.  Specifically I am looking for what special care (like water
          conditions) is needed and if there is any additional supplies needed
          for breeding.  I have all of the basic necessary equipment.  (tank,
          heater, filter, flake food etc.)

                Thanks in advance for any info.

          Ben





          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8224 From: paul helms Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: Re: Cycling with Mollies
          black mollies are rarely 100% black, usually have some
          white or silver on them
          --- Iksnip@... wrote:

          > Hi Guys,
          >
          > quick question/comment. So I decided to purchase 3
          > black mollies yesterday for my 75 g tank to get that
          > cycling process going. Sadly, one of the mollies
          > died in the first 2 hours. I am happy to report
          > that the other two made it through the first night.
          > Given this, I think I may have been taken though.
          > The Molly that died was a crisp and rich black,
          > beautiful little fish. The other two have these
          > little marks or patches on white/silver on them. Is
          > this normal for Mollies? Are they sick? Will this
          > go away on its own? Is it ich or somethig else? Do
          > I need to remove them from the tank or medicate
          > them. At this time there are no other fish in the
          > tank and just plant live (dwarf hair grass and
          > amazon sword plants)
          >
          > thanks
          >
          > Ken
          >
          >





          __________________________________
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8225 From: paul helms Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: guppy babies
          one side note....
          while a few guppies fry may be eaten by the mother,
          most fry that are lost are actually ucked up by
          filtratation. make sure that you screen on back
          filters/cannisters are covered with something.
          paul



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          Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8226 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: Re: Baby guppies!
          I have 3 really big pregnant female guppies. I have about 20 baby guppies and all 3 females still look huge. Do they have babies continuously? I haven't tried to save any because quite a few are surviving on their own. I have a feeling I would have way too many if I save every one.
          Dorothy

          mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

          I have a pregnant female and she is huge ready to pop soon, she was in
          the corner of the tank by herself looking like she was ready to give
          birth so I put her in a breeding net inside the tank but it's been 2
          days now and nothing but she looks stressed so I guess I'll have to
          take her out and try to find the babies who haven't been eatin in the
          main tank when she has them. =:O( I thought it would be easy to get
          them out of there rather than only finding a few that haven't been
          eatin in the main tank......SO much for that!!!!!



          > Had a look at the babys, they have eaten some of the flake bits I put
          > in there nursery, kinda see threw tummies all purple flake coloured...
          > looks funny.      Think either a couple had escaped or the mother eat
          > them, my wife was horrified.
          >
          > I have quite a few plants in my tank and found a small guppie from the
          > last batch still running around in them.
          >
          > I spent the next 3 hours with my wife trying to catch two other
          > pregnent guppies with out success, they are so fast!
          >
          >
          >
          > > Message: 6        
          > >    Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 12:31:34 -0000
          > >    From: "cynthia brennemann" <brennewoman@h...>
          > > LOL, Nick, I wouldn't worry about it.  As long as they have some
          > plants to hide in, they'll be fine.  We carefully fished our babies out
          > the first time, and protected them...but then the population exploded.
          > Sheesh!  Guppies are breeding machines!
          > > ---
          > > Message: 7        
          > >    Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 09:07:43 EST
          > >    From: FortWayneFish@a...
          > > finely crushed flakes will do for your newborns. ... Mostly BBS (baby
          > brine shrimp ) are fed to smaller kinds of babies ... 
          > > Most Livebearers( guppies,swordtails,plattys ) are Giant compared to
          > most other fish babies..
          > > rob, Indiana
          > > ---
          > > Message: 8        
          > >    Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:20:43 -0800 (PST)
          > >    From: griselle cottingham <gcorchado@y...>
          > >         My female guppy has given birth twice, last
          > > year and 3 weeks ago, both times I was able to confine her on the end
          > of my tank....
          > > Rebeca





          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8227 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: Re: Baby guppies!
          Guppies can have quite a few babies. I think latley our guppies are averaging about 20 each time. but i have seen bigger batches.
          Sometimes it takes mommy a few hours sometimes even overnight to finish having the babies. ( long labor )
          Usually when we isolate a female we turn the lights out on that side of the tank so she can have some peace and quiet and not such an intense light. Out net nurseries hang under the lid so the female is pretty close to the light. Adding some small pieces of plant can also calm her down. 
          When she is calm and ready she/they will have the babies....
          Rob
          Indiana

          PS>  your pregnant guppy has the ability to store sperm from the males. So even if there are no males in the tank with her she will continue having babies 2 or 3 more times... Amazing isn't it....

          In a message dated 2/4/2005 12:08:08 AM US Eastern Standard Time, duchess562000@... writes:


          I have 3 really big pregnant female guppies. I have about 20 baby guppies and all 3 females still look huge. Do they have babies continuously? I haven't tried to save any because quite a few are surviving on their own. I have a feeling I would have way too many if I save every one.
          Dorothy



          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8228 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: Re: Baby guppies!
          Thanks so much for the info!
          Dorothy

          FortWayneFish@... wrote:
          Guppies can have quite a few babies. I think latley our guppies are averaging about 20 each time. but i have seen bigger batches.
          Sometimes it takes mommy a few hours sometimes even overnight to finish having the babies. ( long labor )
          Usually when we isolate a female we turn the lights out on that side of the tank so she can have some peace and quiet and not such an intense light. Out net nurseries hang under the lid so the female is pretty close to the light. Adding some small pieces of plant can also calm her down. 
          When she is calm and ready she/they will have the babies....
          Rob
          Indiana

          PS>  your pregnant guppy has the ability to store sperm from the males. So even if there are no males in the tank with her she will continue having babies 2 or 3 more times... Amazing isn't it....

          In a message dated 2/4/2005 12:08:08 AM US Eastern Standard Time, duchess562000@... writes:


          I have 3 really big pregnant female guppies. I have about 20 baby guppies and all 3 females still look huge. Do they have babies continuously? I haven't tried to save any because quite a few are surviving on their own. I have a feeling I would have way too many if I save every one.
          Dorothy





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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8229 From: Aaron Martin Date: 2/3/2005
          Subject: Fish Dying
          the mother died we are not even sure which one gave birth they were all alive when born we just keep losing them we have one who is swimming and swimming he is ok so far or should i say its ok.
           
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 12:45 PM
          Subject: Re: fish dying

          "still birth" is not uncommon, especially pre-mature fry under stress conditions.

           have the mothers succesfully given birth previously? how old/mature are the mothers? how long have you had them?


          ----- Original Message -----

          Subject: Re: fish dying
          Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:14:48 -0900

          >
          > water was checked nothing was wrong with it they are being found dead..
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----

          > Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:09 PM
          > Subject: Re: fish dying
          >
          >
          > >
          > > Mother fish can die from the stress of giving birth.
          > >
          > > Are the fry being eaten or found dead after having been swimming
          > > for some time?
          > >
          > > We need to know all the parameters of the water, include change
          > > intervals and maintance habits in order to answer accuately.
          > >
          > > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,

          > >> Our babies are dying whats wrong?
          > >> we lost both of our mollies too?

           



           

          Aaron R. Martin, cmt
          
          Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
          
           
          
          got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
          
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife
          
          stop by and see ~ membership is free!
          

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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8230 From: Lyndsay Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Plants for a tortise in a tank
          Is there any plants that are hardy and need little light and can be
          kept with a short neck tortise (chelodina macquarii) in a tank?
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8231 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
             I thought tortoises' are land animals. Turtles are amphibians. Is it a water tank?
                                                             Joe Pascavage
           
          -------------- Original message --------------

          Is there any plants that are hardy and need little light and can be
          kept with a short neck tortise (chelodina macquarii) in a tank?





          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8232 From: Anne Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: white cloud minnows
          A neighbor gave my grandson 3 white cloud minnows.
          They are in my 10gal. tank now as he has a 2.5 gal.
          tank with a goldfish in it and we thought the white
          clouds might be to much for that tank. I would like to
          get him something he could keep them in at his house.
          (He's 6) How big of a tank do three or four minnows
          require?
          Thanks
          Anne



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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8233 From: Ben Noreau Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: Breeding fish
          Thanks for the info,

          That was very helpful. I hadn't planned on fully
          stocking the new tank. Once its set up I am going to
          let it cycle with no fish. I like to add a few fish
          at a time. I usually get 6 at a time and I wait at
          LEAST a month before adding new fish.
          I am worried about a population explosion. I
          have a 29 gallon tank that has a few fish in it. I
          was thinking about once the 55 gallon was comfortably
          (for the fish) stocked and separating males and
          females. I dont really know of anyone who I could
          give fish to so I really want to control the
          population. I feel that you shouldnt have any more
          pets than you have time to take care of, and I feel
          that this applies to fish too.

          If there is anyone in NY who reads this post who
          would be interested in taking extra fish or arranging
          for trades let me know. The reason why I mention
          trade is that the selection is limited here and I
          would like the opportunity to diversify my stock. I
          dont in any way shape or for intend to use the fish to
          profit, or think that I can use them to make money.
          Personally I would rather just see that they go to a
          good home, but if someone wants to trade for something
          that will work with my tank I wont refuse.

          Thanks,
          Ben



          =====



          Ben




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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8234 From: paul helms Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
          a tortise needs more room than a tank....they grow
          quite large
          --- Lyndsay <littlelasgirl@...> wrote:

          >
          > Is there any plants that are hardy and need little
          > light and can be
          > kept with a short neck tortise (chelodina macquarii)
          > in a tank?
          >
          >
          >
          >




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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8235 From: boy2coool Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Balloon Molly Died
          My fav yellow Balloon Molly died today. I noticed a wound just behind
          her Anal fin. Could somebody figure out the reason why she died? Pls
          reply if you know.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8236 From: greg1769 Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: unseen problem
          Hi i have kept fish in the past with no problems except a couple of
          ich flare ups i have started keeping fish again using some of my
          equipment i had before i started a 29g tank with four mollies 1 male
          3 females one of the females gave birth(big surprise)but after that
          maybe a day or to she started acting like she was paralized from her
          mid dorsal back and was like that for about a week i guess and
          finally died yesterday i've also noticed the other fish scraping
          once in a while also i put in a rubbernose plec and he lasted about
          3 days and died has anyone had anything simaliar happen to them
          there's no signs on the fish of protazoans or bacteria i wonder if i
          picked up something from the fish store i started a malachite green
          treatment today to see if that will help i noticed when i added it
          the mollies started rubbing could have been the medicine though any
          help would be appreciated. thanks greg
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8237 From: CRAIG DAVISON Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: Looking for Information
          Hi
          Just checked out that site and it is very good
          thankyou
          I would never have found that
          any other invisable sites
          craigy101

          ben_noreau <ben_noreau@...> wrote:

          Hi,

               I just wanted to mention a site that I found that contained some
          good information and what I thought to be decent pictures. 

          http://www.solodvds.com/

               Contrary to what the name says it has nothing to do with dvd's.
          It is a guide to tropical and marine fish.

          Ben





          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




          EASY DOES IT,
          ONE DAY AT A TIME.


          ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!

          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8238 From: craig davison Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: craigs tank & fish
          Have a look at my vrry 1st photos
          tell me what you think
          {craigs tank&fish}
          craig
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8239 From: Amalthea Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
          i have four turtles and they winter over in a "small" 125 gallon pond.
          you definitely need a large space for them.
          amalthea
          http://www.puppetterrors.com
          Don't be Afraid to Scream....
          On Feb 4, 2005, at 12:15 PM, paul helms wrote:

          > a tortise needs more room than a tank....they grow
          > quite large
          > --- Lyndsay <littlelasgirl@...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > Is there any plants that are hardy and need little
          > > light and can be
          > > kept with a short neck tortise (chelodina macquarii)
          > > in a tank?
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >            
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
          > http://my.yahoo.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
          >  
          > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >  
          > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > Service.
          >
          >
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8240 From: paul helms Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: unseen problem
          generally rubbing is caused by parasites, in the
          earliest stages.....what ar your water paramteres.
          temp
          ph
          nitrite
          nitrate
          ammonia?
          --- greg1769 <greg1769@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Hi i have kept fish in the past with no problems
          > except a couple of
          > ich flare ups i have started keeping fish again
          > using some of my
          > equipment i had before i started a 29g tank with
          > four mollies 1 male
          > 3 females one of the females gave birth(big
          > surprise)but after that
          > maybe a day or to she started acting like she was
          > paralized from her
          > mid dorsal back and was like that for about a week i
          > guess and
          > finally died yesterday i've also noticed the other
          > fish scraping
          > once in a while also i put in a rubbernose plec and
          > he lasted about
          > 3 days and died has anyone had anything simaliar
          > happen to them
          > there's no signs on the fish of protazoans or
          > bacteria i wonder if i
          > picked up something from the fish store i started a
          > malachite green
          > treatment today to see if that will help i noticed
          > when i added it
          > the mollies started rubbing could have been the
          > medicine though any
          > help would be appreciated. thanks greg
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >




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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8241 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: unseen problem
                If you started you tank with the number of fish you mentioned, your water chemistry could be toxic, and the rubbing could be due to toxic levels of ammonia, nitrite, ph, etc. Even chlorine or chloramine.If it's old material you're using, I imagine water hardness or nitrate could be a problem. Bad chemistry can cause erosion of slime-coat and skin, and that could cause itching .
                                  Joe Pascavage
           
          -------------- Original message --------------


          Hi i have kept fish in the past with no problems except a couple of
          ich flare ups i have started keeping fish again using some of my
          equipment i had before i started a 29g tank with four mollies 1 male
          3 females one of the females gave birth(big surprise)but after that
          maybe a day or to she started acting like she was paralized from her
          mid dorsal back and was like that for about a week i guess and
          finally died yesterday i've also noticed the other fish scraping
          once in a while also i put in a rubbernose plec and he lasted about
          3 days and died has anyone had anything simaliar happen to them
          there's no signs on the fish of protazoans or bacteria i wonder if i
          picked up something from the fish store i started a malachite green
          treatment today to see if that will help i noticed when i added it
          the mollies started rubbing could have been the medicine though any
          help would be appreciated. thanks greg








          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8242 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
                I looked up the animal mentioned in your (below) letter, and the animal is a 'Turtle", not a "Tortoise".
                                                Joe Pascavage
           
          -------------- Original message --------------

          Is there any plants that are hardy and need little light and can be
          kept with a short neck tortise (chelodina macquarii) in a tank?





          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8243 From: Carly Smith Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: guppy babies
          All I did in my platy and convict tanks was take a sponge filter from the AC 200 and cut it in half. Then I cut a slit in one end and jammed it onto the the filter intake. Doesn't impair intake much (until plants get stuck on it...darn convicts!) and is very safe for the babies. I am actually in the process of separating out male and female platies and rehoming them after having been quite successful with those babies...they just take so long to grow! and I have enough on my plate baby-wise with those striped baby machines. Anyone want a convict or 50? LOL! It is fun watching them grow though, and watching the behaviour of the neurotic parents. I have never had much luck with guppies, think my water must be wrong for them.

          Have fun with your guppy babies!

          Carly

          >one side note....
          >while a few guppies fry may be eaten by the mother,
          >most fry that are lost are actually ucked up by
          >filtratation. make sure that you screen on back
          >filters/cannisters are covered with something.
          >paul
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8244 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Quick Question on Species Location
          Hi guys,

          In attempting to be true to a south american rainforest, I have thus far, only begun stocking the tank with Black Mollies (yes I know they are kind of a hybrid fish) but i was wondering if anyone knew the origins or species location of

          Dalmation Mollies
          Needle Fish
          Ghost Shrimp
          Dragon eels
          Red Sword Fish

          thanks

          Ken
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8245 From: Steve Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: white cloud minnows
          For the White Clouds, I'd say a 5 or 5.5 gallon tank would be sufficient.
          I'd be looking for a larger tank for the goldfish, however. A 2.5 gallon
          tank is just not sufficient for a gold fish to live a long life. Full grown
          goldfish need at least 30 gallons per fish to do well.

          Like the goldfish, the White Clouds are a temperate water fish, and should
          do well at room temperature They will, in fact, show better color at a lower
          temperature than is thought to be prudent for most ornamental fish.

          \\Steve//

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Anne [mailto:md_gustoby@...]
          Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 10:02 AM
          To: AquaticLife
          Subject: [AquaticLife] white cloud minnows



          A neighbor gave my grandson 3 white cloud minnows.
          They are in my 10gal. tank now as he has a 2.5 gal.
          tank with a goldfish in it and we thought the white
          clouds might be to much for that tank. I would like to
          get him something he could keep them in at his house.
          (He's 6) How big of a tank do three or four minnows
          require?
          Thanks
          Anne



          __________________________________
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          All your favorites on one personal page  Try My Yahoo!
          http://my.yahoo.com



          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks

          Yahoo! Groups Links
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8246 From: paul helms Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: guppy babies
          where do you live? if you are in ca i would gladly
          take the fry of teh convicts
          paul
          --- Carly Smith <questnjurny@...> wrote:

          > All I did in my platy and convict tanks was take a
          > sponge filter from the AC 200 and cut it in half.
          > Then I cut a slit in one end and jammed it onto the
          > the filter intake. Doesn't impair intake much
          > (until plants get stuck on it...darn convicts!) and
          > is very safe for the babies. I am actually in the
          > process of separating out male and female platies
          > and rehoming them after having been quite successful
          > with those babies...they just take so long to grow!
          > and I have enough on my plate baby-wise with those
          > striped baby machines. Anyone want a convict or 50?
          > LOL! It is fun watching them grow though, and
          > watching the behaviour of the neurotic parents. I
          > have never had much luck with guppies, think my
          > water must be wrong for them.
          >
          > Have fun with your guppy babies!
          >
          > Carly
          >
          > >one side note....
          > >while a few guppies fry may be eaten by the mother,
          > >most fry that are lost are actually ucked up by
          > >filtratation. make sure that you screen on back
          > >filters/cannisters are covered with something.
          > >paul
          >




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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8247 From: canadiancowgirl2004 Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: New to Group!
          Hi All,

          My name is Pam, I have 1 male siamese Fighting Fish named Hot Rod
          (who belongs to my Parrot) I've had him in a fish bowl for about 2
          months, I just bought a new 10 gallon aquarium and I am
          going to get a silver dollar, angel fish and 2 Firebelly newts to
          join him, and a plecco. I have had aquariums in the past up to 200
          gallons (1 200, 1 150, 2 55's, 2 33's and some smaller tanks too)
          with fish like oscars, koi, silver dollars, angels, bred gupies,
          mollies, swordtails and I have the itch to get bigger aquariums when
          I move to a bigger house! My favorite fish I've had was a koi I
          bought when it was 2 inches long and it grew to be 12 inches long it
          was a beautiful sparkling white gold color!)

          Thanks for letting me join!

          ~Pam
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8248 From: Anne Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: New to Group!
          "Hi All,My name is Pam, I have 1 male siamese Fighting
          Fish named Hot Rod
          (who belongs to my Parrot) ..."

          Hi Pam, Glad to meet you. I have 2 male bettas- Thumbs
          and Red myself. Beautiful fish.
          Anne


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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8249 From: Western Cowgirl Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: New to Group!
          Anne,
           
          Nice to meet you too!
          Do you have your 2 male Bettas in the same tank ?
          I love their names, especially Thumbs!
           
          -----PAM----------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Jessie James (Male Sun Conure)
          Hot Rod (Male Siamese Fighting Fish)
          Website: http://members.shaw.ca/jessiejamessunconure/index.html
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Anne
          Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 9:37 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to Group!

          "Hi All,My name is Pam, I have 1 male siamese Fighting
          Fish named Hot Rod
          (who belongs to my Parrot) ..."

          Hi Pam, Glad to meet you. I have 2 male bettas- Thumbs
          and Red myself. Beautiful fish.
          Anne
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8250 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: New to Group!
          Hi Pam,
          Welcome to the group ! I am sure you will enjoy it.
          Dorothy

          canadiancowgirl2004 <westerncowgirl@...> wrote:


          Hi All,

          My name is Pam, I have 1 male siamese Fighting Fish named Hot Rod
          (who belongs to my Parrot) I've had him in a fish bowl for about 2
          months, I just bought a new 10 gallon aquarium and I am
          going to get a silver dollar, angel fish and 2 Firebelly newts to
          join him, and a plecco. I have had aquariums in the past up to 200
          gallons (1 200, 1 150, 2 55's, 2 33's and some smaller tanks too)
          with fish like oscars, koi, silver dollars, angels, bred gupies,
          mollies, swordtails and I have the itch to get bigger aquariums when
          I move to a bigger house! My favorite fish I've had was a koi I
          bought when it was 2 inches long and it grew to be 12 inches long it
          was a beautiful sparkling white gold color!)

          Thanks for letting me join!

          ~Pam








          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8251 From: Western Cowgirl Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: New to Group!
          Dorothy,
           
          thanks for the welcome!
          I am already enjoying it!
           
          ~Pam
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 10:31 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to Group!

          Hi Pam,
          Welcome to the group ! I am sure you will enjoy it.
          Dorothy
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8252 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: New to Group!
          Pam, welcome to the group .
          Something don't sound right with your introduction.
          1 betta, Silver dollar, angelfish and a newt in a 10 gallon tank?
          My opinion is that it can be done for a SHORT time but for the ,long run its not probable.

          The angelfish will grow to big to live comfortably in a 10 gallon tank, especially with other tankmates. Your silver dollar will get upwards to 6 inches in size and should be kept in schools.. 
          The betta and newt would probally make good tankmates, but I'd leave the other fish out until you get a bigger tank.

          my opinion
          rob
          NE Indiana
          USA





          In a message dated 2/5/2005 12:32:00 AM US Eastern Standard Time, duchess562000@... writes:


          I have 1 male siamese Fighting Fish named Hot Rod
          (who belongs to my Parrot) I've had him in a fish bowl for about 2
          months, I just bought a new 10 gallon aquarium and I am
          going to get a silver dollar, angel fish and 2 Firebelly newts to
          join him, and a plecco. I have had aquariums in the past up to 200
          gallons (1 200, 1 150, 2 55's, 2 33's and some smaller tanks too)


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8253 From: Western Cowgirl Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: New to Group!
          Rob,
           
          Yeah, that's a good idea, I plan on getting a much bigger
          tank but don't know when, I'll stick to newts for now!
          Thanks and good night,
           
          ~Pam
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 11:03 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to Group!

          Pam, welcome to the group .
          Something don't sound right with your introduction.
          1 betta, Silver dollar, angelfish and a newt in a 10 gallon tank?
          My opinion is that it can be done for a SHORT time but for the ,long run its not probable.

          The angelfish will grow to big to live comfortably in a 10 gallon tank, especially with other tankmates. Your silver dollar will get upwards to 6 inches in size and should be kept in schools.. 
          The betta and newt would probally make good tankmates, but I'd leave the other fish out until you get a bigger tank.

          my opinion
          rob
          NE Indiana
          USA
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8254 From: pickles Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: New to Group!
          Hi,
          I am new here too.... I have had tropical fish just about all my life and also had a fish shop....I would have to agree that a 10 gallon will only do for a very short while for the sliver dollar and the angles...they grow way to fast and have to have the height of a bigger tank...as for the newts, they don't require a heated tank and will at the very least nip fins and at the worst eat all your fish! They shouldn't go in with your beta either as he swims too slowly and will be an easy target for the newts. They love to breed also....we have a bass pond full of them...some years we literally have 1000's.They are better off in a tank by them selves and they don't live very long in captivety..
          The other fish , silver dollar and angles , shouldn't be in with your beta either as they will attack his flowing fins and end up killing him as the tank will be too small for him to get away... should really rethink the tank mates.... JMO....Mary
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 10:03 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to Group!

          Pam, welcome to the group .
          Something don't sound right with your introduction.
          1 betta, Silver dollar, angelfish and a newt in a 10 gallon tank?
          My opinion is that it can be done for a SHORT time but for the ,long run its not probable.

          The angelfish will grow to big to live comfortably in a 10 gallon tank, especially with other tankmates. Your silver dollar will get upwards to 6 inches in size and should be kept in schools.. 
          The betta and newt would probally make good tankmates, but I'd leave the other fish out until you get a bigger tank.

          my opinion
          rob
          NE Indiana
          USA





          In a message dated 2/5/2005 12:32:00 AM US Eastern Standard Time, duchess562000@... writes:


          I have 1 male siamese Fighting Fish named Hot Rod
          (who belongs to my Parrot) I've had him in a fish bowl for about 2
          months, I just bought a new 10 gallon aquarium and I am
          going to get a silver dollar, angel fish and 2 Firebelly newts to
          join him, and a plecco. I have had aquariums in the past up to 200
          gallons (1 200, 1 150, 2 55's, 2 33's and some smaller tanks too)




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8255 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: Breeding fish
          Hi Ben,
           Do you live anywhere near the Pennsylvania border?
          Dorothy

          Ben Noreau <ben_noreau@...> wrote:
          Thanks for the info,

               That was very helpful.  I hadn't planned on fully
          stocking the new tank.  Once its set up I am going to
          let it cycle with no fish.  I like to add a few fish
          at a time.  I usually get 6 at a time and I wait at
          LEAST a month before adding new fish.
                I am worried about a population explosion.  I
          have a 29 gallon tank that has a few fish in it.  I
          was thinking about once the 55 gallon was comfortably
          (for the fish) stocked and separating males and
          females.  I dont really know of anyone who I could
          give fish to so I really want to control the
          population.  I feel that you shouldnt have any more
          pets than you have time to take care of, and I feel
          that this applies to fish too.

               If there is anyone in NY who reads this post who
          would be interested in taking extra fish or arranging
          for trades let me know.  The reason why I mention
          trade is that the selection is limited here and I
          would like the opportunity to diversify my stock.  I
          dont in any way shape or for intend to use the fish to
          profit, or think that I can use them to make money.
          Personally I would rather just see that they go to a
          good home, but if someone wants to trade for something
          that will work with my tank I wont refuse.

          Thanks,
          Ben



          =====



          Ben



                     
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          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8256 From: Ray Tripp Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
          The common names vary overseas. Let's not condemn common name usage
          because it's unfamiliar to us on this side of the "Big Pond".

          Ray
          BugEaters

          >
          >
          > I looked up the animal mentioned in your (below) letter, and
          the animal is a 'Turtle", not a "Tortoise".
          > Joe Pascavage
          >
          > -------------- Original message --------------
          >
          > Is there any plants that are hardy and need little light and can be
          > kept with a short neck tortise (chelodina macquarii) in a tank?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >

          --
          Thank you very much!
          Ray Tripp
          Ray@...
          www.Bug-Eaters.com We've got what you're hungry for!
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8257 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: craigs tank & fish
          Craig.
          I enjoyed your photos , you have a lot of nice looking plants.
          Dorothy

          craig davison <craigy1012000@...> wrote:


          Have a look at my vrry 1st photos
          tell me what you think
          {craigs tank&fish}
          craig








          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8258 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
          In a message dated 2/5/2005 1:28:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ray@... writes:

          The common names vary overseas. Let's not condemn common name usage
          because it's unfamiliar to us on this side of the "Big Pond".

          Very true. Common names will always be a bugaboo for aquarists, but common names vs. actual "classification" of turtles, terrapins and tortoises are important clarifications, especially for an aquarists unfamiliar with the differences yet wanting to  try something a little different out.
           
          Vicky
           
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8259 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
              The reason I pointed out the difference is (I did'nt mean to sound terse);
                  A tortoise would drown in an aquarium (since it's not an amphibian).
                                               Joe Pascavage
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          In a message dated 2/5/2005 1:28:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ray@... writes:

          The common names vary overseas. Let's not condemn common name usage
          because it's unfamiliar to us on this side of the "Big Pond".

           
          Very true. Common names will always be a bugaboo for aquarists, but common names vs. actual "classification" of turtles, terrapins and tortoises are important clarifications, especially for an aquarists unfamiliar with the differences yet wanting to  try something a little different out.
           
          Vicky
           


          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8260 From: Colleen Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: 10 gallon
          How many fish is recommended for a 10 gallon to be ok ?
           
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8261 From: paul helms Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: 10 gallon
          depends on filtration quality, by in genral one inch
          per gallon
          --- Colleen <alaskaicekubes@...> wrote:

          > How many fish is recommended for a 10 gallon to be
          > ok ?
          >




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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8262 From: paul helms Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
          no one realy cares about the "common name" overseas,
          because when you are asking for advice on a certain
          animal, it is important to be asking about the right
          animal. a turtle and a tortise are very different in
          needs. that is like asking how to take care of a
          betta when you have a hamster (a little exaggerated,
          but not that far when the tortise would die in water)
          --- Ray Tripp <Ray@...> wrote:

          > The common names vary overseas. Let's not condemn
          > common name usage
          > because it's unfamiliar to us on this side of the
          > "Big Pond".
          >
          > Ray
          > BugEaters
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > I looked up the animal mentioned in your
          > (below) letter, and
          > the animal is a 'Turtle", not a "Tortoise".
          > > Joe
          > Pascavage
          > >
          > > -------------- Original message --------------
          > >
          > > Is there any plants that are hardy and need little
          > light and can be
          > > kept with a short neck tortise (chelodina
          > macquarii) in a tank?
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > please delete this line and everything below it
          > when replying, thanks
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
          > Terms of Service.
          > >
          >
          > --
          > Thank you very much!
          > Ray Tripp
          > Ray@...
          > www.Bug-Eaters.com We've got what you're hungry
          > for!
          >




          __________________________________
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8263 From: Ray Tripp Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
          They just use turtle, tortoise, and terrapin to describe what they have
          differently than we use the same terms.

          This species that she is asking about is from Down Under and she is
          probably from there as well. They have no true tortoises. These are
          occationally found seeking other water holes, therefore, the label of
          tortoise got stuck to them.

          Good thing she had a scientific name to go with her "tortoise" so we
          wouldn't debate it to extinction.

          About the plants, they'd have to be hardy and perhaps withstand being
          eaten. Where she resides may make a difference on what is available to
          her. If she is Down Under, she may not have access to all the plants we
          do, because they may become invasive. Let's assume that she has a
          proper setup and would like to know what plants to add because she has
          room enough already for them. We need more info from her before
          recommendations can be made.

          Ray
          BugEaters

          >
          >
          >
          > In a message dated 2/5/2005 1:28:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
          > Ray@... writes:
          >
          >
          > The common names vary overseas. Let's not condemn common name usage
          > because it's unfamiliar to us on this side of the "Big Pond".
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Very true. Common names will always be a bugaboo for aquarists, but
          common
          > names vs. actual "classification" of turtles, terrapins and tortoises
          are
          > important clarifications, especially for an aquarists unfamiliar with
          the
          > differences yet wanting to try something a little different out.
          >
          > Vicky
          >
          >
          >

          --
          Thank you very much!
          Ray Tripp
          Ray@...
          www.Bug-Eaters.com We've got what you're hungry for!
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8264 From: Ray Tripp Date: 2/4/2005
          Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
          Except for Sea "Turtles" or "Terrapins" any other "turtle"
          or "tortoise" can be accomodated in a naturalistic vivarium without
          drowning. Even aquatic species need to haul out on land every once in
          while.

          Ray
          BugEaters

          >
          > They just use turtle, tortoise, and terrapin to describe what they
          have
          > differently than we use the same terms.
          >
          > This species that she is asking about is from Down Under and she is
          > probably from there as well. They have no true tortoises. These are
          > occationally found seeking other water holes, therefore, the label of
          > tortoise got stuck to them.
          >
          > Good thing she had a scientific name to go with her "tortoise" so we
          > wouldn't debate it to extinction.
          >
          > About the plants, they'd have to be hardy and perhaps withstand being
          > eaten. Where she resides may make a difference on what is available
          to
          > her. If she is Down Under, she may not have access to all the plants
          we
          > do, because they may become invasive. Let's assume that she has a
          > proper setup and would like to know what plants to add because she
          has
          > room enough already for them. We need more info from her before
          > recommendations can be made.
          >
          > Ray
          > BugEaters
          >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > In a message dated 2/5/2005 1:28:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
          > > Ray@... writes:
          > >
          > >
          > > The common names vary overseas. Let's not condemn common name
          usage
          > > because it's unfamiliar to us on this side of the "Big Pond".
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Very true. Common names will always be a bugaboo for aquarists, but
          > common
          > > names vs. actual "classification" of turtles, terrapins and
          tortoises
          > are
          > > important clarifications, especially for an aquarists unfamiliar
          with
          > the
          > > differences yet wanting to try something a little different out.
          > >
          > > Vicky
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > --
          > Thank you very much!
          > Ray Tripp
          > Ray@...
          > www.Bug-Eaters.com We've got what you're hungry for!
          >
          >
          > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--
          >
          > Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease?
          > Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts!
          > http://us.click.yahoo.com/RzSHvD/UOnJAA/79vVAA/ANOolB/TM
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-
          >
          >
          > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >

          --
          Thank you very much!
          Ray Tripp
          Ray@...
          www.Bug-Eaters.com We've got what you're hungry for!
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8265 From: paul helms Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
          "vivarium" not tajnk full of water
          --- Ray Tripp <Ray@...> wrote:

          > Except for Sea "Turtles" or "Terrapins" any other
          > "turtle"
          > or "tortoise" can be accomodated in a naturalistic
          > vivarium without
          > drowning. Even aquatic species need to haul out on
          > land every once in
          > while.
          >
          > Ray
          > BugEaters
          >
          > >
          > > They just use turtle, tortoise, and terrapin to
          > describe what they
          > have
          > > differently than we use the same terms.
          > >
          > > This species that she is asking about is from Down
          > Under and she is
          > > probably from there as well. They have no true
          > tortoises. These are
          > > occationally found seeking other water holes,
          > therefore, the label of
          > > tortoise got stuck to them.
          > >
          > > Good thing she had a scientific name to go with
          > her "tortoise" so we
          > > wouldn't debate it to extinction.
          > >
          > > About the plants, they'd have to be hardy and
          > perhaps withstand being
          > > eaten. Where she resides may make a difference on
          > what is available
          > to
          > > her. If she is Down Under, she may not have access
          > to all the plants
          > we
          > > do, because they may become invasive. Let's assume
          > that she has a
          > > proper setup and would like to know what plants to
          > add because she
          > has
          > > room enough already for them. We need more info
          > from her before
          > > recommendations can be made.
          > >
          > > Ray
          > > BugEaters
          > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > In a message dated 2/5/2005 1:28:45 AM Eastern
          > Standard Time,
          > > > Ray@... writes:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > The common names vary overseas. Let's not
          > condemn common name
          > usage
          > > > because it's unfamiliar to us on this side of
          > the "Big Pond".
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Very true. Common names will always be a bugaboo
          > for aquarists, but
          > > common
          > > > names vs. actual "classification" of turtles,
          > terrapins and
          > tortoises
          > > are
          > > > important clarifications, especially for an
          > aquarists unfamiliar
          > with
          > > the
          > > > differences yet wanting to try something a
          > little different out.
          > > >
          > > > Vicky
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > --
          > > Thank you very much!
          > > Ray Tripp
          > > Ray@...
          > > www.Bug-Eaters.com We've got what you're hungry
          > for!
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > --------------------~--
          > >
          > > Has someone you know been affected by illness or
          > disease?
          > > Network for Good is THE place to support health
          > awareness efforts!
          > >
          >
          http://us.click.yahoo.com/RzSHvD/UOnJAA/79vVAA/ANOolB/TM
          > >
          >
          --------------------------------------------------------------------~-
          > >
          > >
          > > please delete this line and everything below it
          > when replying, thanks
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > --
          > Thank you very much!
          > Ray Tripp
          > Ray@...
          > www.Bug-Eaters.com We've got what you're hungry
          > for!
          >




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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8266 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
            I'm not trying to belabour the point, but I looked up 'Australian Dictionary' in GOOGLE, and believe it or not there are references to such.
             From a capsulization of what I found, a Turtle could be understood to be aquatic, and a Tortoise found to be 'land-dwelling'.
              Clarifying what may be a colloquialization of the words Turtle, Tortoise and Terrapin in a group like this could save a Tortoise from drowning.
                                                                     Joe Pascavage
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          They just use turtle, tortoise, and terrapin to describe what they have
          differently than we use the same terms.

          This species that she is asking about is from Down Under and she is
          probably from there as well. They have no true tortoises. These are
          occationally found seeking other water holes, therefore, the label of
          tortoise got stuck to them.

          Good thing she had a scientific name to go with her "tortoise" so we
          wouldn't debate it to extinction. 

          About the plants, they'd have to be hardy and perhaps withstand being
          eaten. Where she resides may make a difference on what is available to
          her. If she is Down Under, she may not have access to all the plants we
          do, because they may become invasive. Let's assume that she has a
          proper setup and would like to know what plants to add because she has
          room enough already for them. We need more info from her before
          recommendations can be made.

          Ray
          BugEaters

          >
          >

          > In a message dated 2/5/2005 1:28:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
          > Ray@... writes:
          >
          >
          > The  common names vary overseas. Let's not condemn common name usage
          > because  it's unfamiliar to us on this side of the "Big  Pond".
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Very true. Common names will always be a bugaboo for aquarists, but
          common 
          > names vs. actual "classification" of turtles, terrapins and tortoises
          are 
          > important clarifications, especially for an aquarists unfamiliar with
          the 
          > differences yet wanting to  try something a little different out.

          > Vicky

          >
          >

          --
          Thank you very much!
          Ray Tripp
          Ray@...
          www.Bug-Eaters.com  We've got what you're hungry for!


          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8267 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: San Francisco Bay Area Aquatic Plant Society SFBAAPS , 2/5/2005, 1:
          Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
          San Francisco Bay Area Aquatic Plant Society SFBAAPS

          Saturday February 5, 2005
          1:15 pm - 2:15 pm
          This event does not repeat.
          The next reminder for this event will be sent in 10 hours, 4 minutes.

          Event Location: Temescal Cafe, 4920 Telegraph Avenue, Oakland, CA 94609
          Notes:
          San Francisco Bay Area Aquatic Plant Society SFBAAPS
          http://www.sfbaaps.com/

          Next Event:
          1:30pm Sat. Feb 5th, 2005: Plant Swap

          Temescal Cafe, Jeff Kropp
          4920 Telegraph Avenue
          Oakland, CA 94609
          cross street 50th Street
          phone 510-595-4102

          2004 Events:
          02/22/2004: Open House: Erik Leung
          03/13/2004: Open House: Bob Adler
          07/17/2004: Open House: Chris Glanton
          08/07/2004: Open House: Erik Leung
          09/19/2004: Plant Swap Temescal Cafe, Jeff Kropp
          10/17/2004: Open House: Michael Laflamme
          11/21/2004: San Jose Plant Swap: Karlton Lau
          12/12/2004: Open House: Bill Harada

          Yahoo! Greetings
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          Copyright ©  2005  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.
          Privacy Policy - Terms of Service
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8268 From: paul helms Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: photos....wtf?
          i posted some pics in our web page and got a message
          that we are over te limit of storage and now can't see
          anyone pics...only an error message



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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8269 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: photos....wtf?
          I had the same experience I had with another club in Yahoo a
          while (last week or so) back, but the message "I" got was some
          gobbledegook and the words "GROUP CHECK'
          The other groups photos are now available, but I don't know if
          they subtracted any to make photos available.
          Joe Pascavage



          In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
          >
          > i posted some pics in our web page and got a message
          > that we are over te limit of storage and now can't see
          > anyone pics...only an error message
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
          > http://my.yahoo.com
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8270 From: Lyndsay Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
          Now I am confused. LOL. I am an Australian and the species is Aussie
          too. We have had them for many years and had some quite large ones
          too, the larger ones eventually went to a friend's place (she has the
          space for them). This little girl's shell is 12cm in diameter. She
          has a sort of 'dock' which she can climb onto if she wants although
          she spends most of her time swimming. We plan on getting her a
          larger, better 'dock' soon. We have never had plants with any of ours
          before but we thought it may make the water a little better and look
          nicer. It may also make it more interesting for her too. She is in a
          5 foot tank (don't know the exact measurements, during the school
          year she lives in that tank at my mother's work, during the holidays
          she comes home), at the moment I am at home and so can't go measure
          it up. So any readily available hardy plants that would be suitable
          for the tank?

          We call her female but we are actually unsure. Anyone know how to sex
          them?
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8271 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Tortoise or Turtle
              H'lo,
                Here is a link (got it from entering 'Australian Dictionary' into Google), and it contains a reference to what I believe was the reptile mentioned in a recent email, that was referred to as a Tortoise. This link refers to it as a 'Turtle'. (by the way. I entered the word 'Tortoise' into its search engine, and what followed was the description in the link below, that describes the animal as a 'Turtle')
                                    Joe Pascavage
           
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8272 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Tortoise or Turtle
          Hello and my apologies,
                   The link I sent below, even though it was copied "exactly", for reasons unknown to me does not contain the info I found when I used its search engine. BUT, if you click the link, and if you enter the word "Tortoise" in the Search window, the third entry refers to a Turtle, that is, I believe, the subject of a recent email involving Tortoises.
                                            Joe Pascavage
                                  
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 7:44 AM
          Subject: [AquaticLife] Tortoise or Turtle

              H'lo,
                Here is a link (got it from entering 'Australian Dictionary' into Google), and it contains a reference to what I believe was the reptile mentioned in a recent email, that was referred to as a Tortoise. This link refers to it as a 'Turtle'. (by the way. I entered the word 'Tortoise' into its search engine, and what followed was the description in the link below, that describes the animal as a 'Turtle')
                                    Joe Pascavage
           


          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8273 From: Ben Noreau Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Looking for Information
          No problem


          Ben

          __________________________________________________
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8274 From: Ben Noreau Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Breeding fish
          Hello,
           
               No, I live in Northern NY.  I do make frequent trips to Syracuse and I wouldnt have a problem driving the extra hour or so.  I would be willing to make arrangements.  I have yahoo messenger my id is Ben_Noreau or privately email me my address is Ben_Noreau@....  I am currently working on developing a transportation container for the fish.  Something that would keep the fish warm and secure. 
           
          Ben
           


          Ben


          Do you Yahoo!?
          The all-new My Yahoo! � Get yours free!
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8275 From: Anne Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: New to Group!
          "Anne,
          Nice to meet you too!
          Do you have your 2 male Bettas in the same tank ?
          I love their names, especially Thumbs!"

          We call him Thumbs cuz he doesn't have any. Not to
          original with names I'm afraid. We have two labs named
          Gus and Toby and a cat named Katie. But no, I don't
          the bettas together. They each have their own homes.
          Thumbs is in a 5 gal. aquarium (I'd like to find
          something I could put with him) and Red is in a 3 gal.
          Anne



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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8276 From: terri Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: obese looking oranda
          One of my Oranda's is getting rounder and rounder. Sometimes now when I look at it straight on it looks like it's leaning a little towards one side. Is that normal? Really it looks like it swallowed a golf ball. It's still active and swims around, noses around in the gravel etc, it just looks funny. I only have 2 and the other one looks fine.

          Terri
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8277 From: Julie Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: photos....wtf?
          One of the moderators or the owner needs to go in and delete photos.
          Possibly just deleting the full size pics will do it, leave them all as
          thumbnail size and screen size. Yahoo limits the amt of photos you can have
          to 30MB. Another option is to move some photos to the files section, if
          there is enough room there.
          julie
          Cheyenne, Wyoming
          I am not a complete idiot. Some parts are missing.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>

          >
          >
          > i posted some pics in our web page and got a message
          > that we are over te limit of storage and now can't see
          > anyone pics...only an error message
          >
          >
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8278 From: greg1769 Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: unseen problem
          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...>
          wrote:
          > generally rubbing is caused by parasites, in the
          > earliest stages.....what ar your water paramteres.
          > temp
          > ph
          > nitrite
          > nitrate
          > ammonia?
          > --- greg1769 <greg1769@b...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi i have kept fish in the past with no problems
          > > except a couple of
          > > ich flare ups i have started keeping fish again
          > > using some of my
          > > equipment i had before i started a 29g tank with
          > > four mollies 1 male
          > > 3 females one of the females gave birth(big
          > > surprise)but after that
          > > maybe a day or to she started acting like she was
          > > paralized from her
          > > mid dorsal back and was like that for about a week i
          > > guess and
          > > finally died yesterday i've also noticed the other
          > > fish scraping
          > > once in a while also i put in a rubbernose plec and
          > > he lasted about
          > > 3 days and died has anyone had anything simaliar
          > > happen to them
          > > there's no signs on the fish of protazoans or
          > > bacteria i wonder if i
          > > picked up something from the fish store i started a
          > > malachite green
          > > treatment today to see if that will help i noticed
          > > when i added it
          > > the mollies started rubbing could have been the
          > > medicine though any
          > > help would be appreciated. thanks greg
          > >
          > >
          > > thanks for your replies water temp is 78f ph is 7.8 ammonia is
          low nitrates are a little high nitrobacter just now kicking in
          haven't as yet checked nitrates yesterday and this morning they are
          doing the surface hang but no rubbing since yesterday and i forgot
          to say yesterday i did a 25% water change before i did the medicine
          thanks for the help greg.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
          > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8279 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
          In a message dated 2/5/2005 7:05:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, littlelasgirl@... writes:
          We call her female but we are actually unsure. Anyone know how to sex
          them?
          It depends on the species. Eastern Box Turtles (North American, common on the Eastern Seaboard and currently federally protected), for example, are typically determined by the color of their eyes -- red/orange eyes denote a male. BTW, while they enjoy a good soak, they only _bob_ well and don't swim, so they aren't really turtles. ;-)
           
          You'd have to find more information on your 'girl'. =)
           
          Vicky
           
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8280 From: Western Cowgirl Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: New to Group!
          Mary,
           
          I'm going to just stick to the newts,
          I have had them in with a siamese
          fighting fish in a small aquarium before
          but I will watch to make sure they get along
          I havd these newts abot for 12 years and
          never had them breed, but I will watch for that too!
           
          Thanks,
           
          ~Pam
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: pickles
          Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 11:23 PM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to Group!

          Hi,
          I am new here too.... I have had tropical fish just about all my life and also had a fish shop....I would have to agree that a 10 gallon will only do for a very short while for the sliver dollar and the angles...they grow way to fast and have to have the height of a bigger tank...as for the newts, they don't require a heated tank and will at the very least nip fins and at the worst eat all your fish! They shouldn't go in with your beta either as he swims too slowly and will be an easy target for the newts. They love to breed also....we have a bass pond full of them...some years we literally have 1000's.They are better off in a tank by them selves and they don't live very long in captivety..
          The other fish , silver dollar and angles , shouldn't be in with your beta either as they will attack his flowing fins and end up killing him as the tank will be too small for him to get away... should really rethink the tank mates.... JMO....Mary
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8281 From: Steve Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: obese looking oranda
          The leaning of the fish would be considered to be unusual. I'd keep an eye
          on that to determine whether it is really leaning or not.

          I'm not sure from your description what the fish looks like exactly. Here is
          a page with some photos of a mature oranda that you can use to compare:
          http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/oranda/oranda.htm

          -----Original Message-----
          From: terri [mailto:bryants4god@...]
          Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 10:12 AM
          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [AquaticLife] obese looking oranda



          One of my Oranda's is getting rounder and rounder. Sometimes now when I
          look at it straight on it looks like it's leaning a little towards one side.
          Is that normal? Really it looks like it swallowed a golf ball. It's still
          active and swims around, noses around in the gravel etc, it just looks
          funny. I only have 2 and the other one looks fine.

          Terri



          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks

          Yahoo! Groups Links
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8282 From: Carly Smith Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Digest Number 593
          Paul,

          Unfortunatly I am in Canada, British Columbia, so not really all that close to you! Too bad, because I have a ton of them. I got the convicts so I could breed my own feeders, but I am also going to try to sell/give some away as well....I knew they bred often, but not so many at a time!

          Carly
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8283 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: obese looking oranda
             I've kept Goldfish, and a few that were radically, artificially mutated, and seem top remember that extreme genetic manipulation resulted in swim-bladder problems. I don't know what the lump is, but the list and lump could be related to inherited problems.
                                                        Joe Pascavage
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          The leaning of the fish would be considered to be unusual. I'd keep an eye
          on that to determine whether it is really leaning or not.

          I'm not sure from your description what the fish looks like exactly. Here is
          a page with some photos of a mature oranda that you can use to compare:
          http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/oranda/oranda.htm

          -----Original Message-----
          From: terri [mailto:bryants4god@...]
          Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 10:12 AM
          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [AquaticLife] obese looking oranda



          One of my Oranda's is getting rounder and rounder.  Sometimes now when I
          look at it straight on it looks like it's leaning a little towards one side.
          Is that normal?  Really it looks like it swallowed a golf ball.  It's still
          active and swims around, noses around in the gravel etc, it just looks
          funny. I only have 2 and the other one looks fine.

          Terri



          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks

          Yahoo! Groups Links











          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8284 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Convict FRy problems
          I tried convicts as breeders in my Oscar tank and in my Dovii tank. Unfortunately they take so long to grow to a decent size to feed the other fish. My Oscar tank ended p with a small colony of Convicts that the Oscars would NOT EAT.
          so I ended up with an Oscar and Convict tank.
          The Dovii ended up thinking that they where fry I believe because they started protecting the little 1/2" fry.
          So I ended up with a Dovii and Convict tank.

          see where I am going with this?

          becareful because you might over run your other tanks with them..

          rob
          NE Indiana

          In a message dated 2/5/2005 12:28:57 PM US Eastern Standard Time, questnjurny@... writes:


          Paul,

          Unfortunatly I am in Canada, British Columbia, so not really all that close to you!  Too bad, because I have a ton of them.  I got the convicts so I could breed my own feeders, but I am also going to try to sell/give some away as well....I knew they bred often, but not so many at a time!


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8285 From: paul helms Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Digest Number 593
          if you are interested in shipping them overnight or
          something, i'd pay the shipping
          lol
          paul
          --- Carly Smith <questnjurny@...> wrote:

          > Paul,
          >
          > Unfortunatly I am in Canada, British Columbia, so
          > not really all that close to you! Too bad, because
          > I have a ton of them. I got the convicts so I could
          > breed my own feeders, but I am also going to try to
          > sell/give some away as well....I knew they bred
          > often, but not so many at a time!
          >
          > Carly
          >




          __________________________________
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          The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8286 From: paul helms Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Breeding fish
          styrofoam boxes with the air bags instead of peanuts
          work re4ally well. they also have heating and cooling
          packs available. i think it is terri that ships
          snails a lot...she could give you details. most fish
          are shipped with cooling packs though to keep their
          metabolism slow and cause less stress
          paul
          --- Ben Noreau <ben_noreau@...> wrote:

          > Hello,
          >
          > No, I live in Northern NY. I do make frequent
          > trips to Syracuse and I wouldnt have a problem
          > driving the extra hour or so. I would be willing to
          > make arrangements. I have yahoo messenger my id is
          > Ben_Noreau or privately email me my address is
          > Ben_Noreau@.... I am currently working on
          > developing a transportation container for the fish.
          > Something that would keep the fish warm and secure.
          >
          >
          > Ben
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Ben
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > The all-new My Yahoo! � Get yours free!




          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
          http://my.yahoo.com
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8287 From: paul helms Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
          any species of elodia is very hardy and great for
          cleaning up the waer. i don't know how available it
          is to you, as it's origign is canada, but it is cheap
          and hardy and will come back from being nibbled very
          quickly.
          paul
          --- Lyndsay <littlelasgirl@...> wrote:

          >
          > Now I am confused. LOL. I am an Australian and the
          > species is Aussie
          > too. We have had them for many years and had some
          > quite large ones
          > too, the larger ones eventually went to a friend's
          > place (she has the
          > space for them). This little girl's shell is 12cm in
          > diameter. She
          > has a sort of 'dock' which she can climb onto if she
          > wants although
          > she spends most of her time swimming. We plan on
          > getting her a
          > larger, better 'dock' soon. We have never had plants
          > with any of ours
          > before but we thought it may make the water a little
          > better and look
          > nicer. It may also make it more interesting for her
          > too. She is in a
          > 5 foot tank (don't know the exact measurements,
          > during the school
          > year she lives in that tank at my mother's work,
          > during the holidays
          > she comes home), at the moment I am at home and so
          > can't go measure
          > it up. So any readily available hardy plants that
          > would be suitable
          > for the tank?
          >
          > We call her female but we are actually unsure.
          > Anyone know how to sex
          > them?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >




          __________________________________
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          The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
          http://my.yahoo.com
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8288 From: paul helms Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: photos....wtf?
          well if they can be viewed, i put 3 good ones in
          "Paul's photos", that i thought everyone might enjoy
          paul
          --- Joseph Pascavage <j.pascavage@...> wrote:

          >
          > I had the same experience I had with another club
          > in Yahoo a
          > while (last week or so) back, but the message "I"
          > got was some
          > gobbledegook and the words "GROUP CHECK'
          > The other groups photos are now available, but I
          > don't know if
          > they subtracted any to make photos available.
          > Joe Pascavage
          >
          >
          >
          > In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
          > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
          > >
          > > i posted some pics in our web page and got a
          > message
          > > that we are over te limit of storage and now can't
          > see
          > > anyone pics...only an error message
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > __________________________________
          > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
          > > http://my.yahoo.com
          >
          >
          >
          >




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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8289 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: common names vs scientific names
          Problems with common names are the same as with fish and common names. Diffrent species can be classified with the same common name. Then when it comes to setting up habitat,feeding,medicating, or any other details you might get the wrong information and possibly end up killing your new pet.  With a little research and the help of people ( like on this board) Identification can be obtain and its usually not that hard to come by. 

          Research and a little knowledge isn't to much for your new pet to ask :-)


          rob
          NE Indiana
          USA


          In a message dated 2/5/2005 1:41:31 AM US Eastern Standard Time, seleya8@... writes:


          Very true. Common names will always be a bugaboo for aquarists, but common names vs. actual "classification" of turtles, terrapins and tortoises are important clarifications, especially for an aquarists unfamiliar with the differences yet wanting to  try something a little different out.

          Vicky



          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8290 From: harry perry Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Breeding fish/ Ben Noreau
          An excellant source for shipping supplies; www.kensfish.com. It is important to remember not to feed the fish at least 3 days before shipping. Fish can go 2 weeks without food.
           
          Harry

          paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

          styrofoam boxes with the air bags instead of peanuts
          work re4ally well. they also have heating and cooling
          packs available. i think it is terri that ships
          snails a lot...she could give you details. most fish
          are shipped with cooling packs though to keep their
          metabolism slow and cause less stress
          paul
          --- Ben Noreau wrote:

          > Hello,
          >
          > No, I live in Northern NY. I do make frequent
          > trips to Syracuse and I wouldnt have a problem
          > driving the extra hour or so. I would be willing to
          > make arrangements. I have yahoo messenger my id is
          > Ben_Noreau or privately email me my address is
          > Ben_Noreau@.... I am currently working on
          > developing a transportation container for the fish.
          > Something that would keep the fish warm and secure.
          >
          >
          > Ben
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Ben
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > The all-new My Yahoo! � Get yours free!




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          Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8291 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Quick Question on Species Location
          Dalmation Mollies LOCATION MEXICO-COLOMBIA CENTRAL/SOUTH AMERICAN FISH

          Needle Fish- Location Asia

          Ghost Shrimp- too many locations to name

          Dragon eels- unsure of what species you are asking about.

          Red Sword Fish- swordtail fish - Central america  southern mexico- honduras


          hope that is what you was looking for

          rob
          NE Idiana
          USA


          In a message dated 2/4/2005 8:41:45 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Iksnip@... writes:


          In attempting to be true to a south american rainforest, I have thus far, only begun stocking the tank with Black Mollies (yes I know they are kind of a hybrid fish) but i was wondering if anyone knew the origins or species location of

          Dalmation Mollies
          Needle Fish

          Ghost Shrimp

          Dragon eels

          Red Sword Fish



          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8292 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: San Francisco Bay Area Aquatic Plant Society SFBAAPS , 2/5/2005, 1:
          Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
          San Francisco Bay Area Aquatic Plant Society SFBAAPS

          Saturday February 5, 2005
          1:15 pm - 2:15 pm
          This event does not repeat.

          Event Location: Temescal Cafe, 4920 Telegraph Avenue, Oakland, CA 94609
          Notes:
          San Francisco Bay Area Aquatic Plant Society SFBAAPS
          http://www.sfbaaps.com/

          Next Event:
          1:30pm Sat. Feb 5th, 2005: Plant Swap

          Temescal Cafe, Jeff Kropp
          4920 Telegraph Avenue
          Oakland, CA 94609
          cross street 50th Street
          phone 510-595-4102

          2004 Events:
          02/22/2004: Open House: Erik Leung
          03/13/2004: Open House: Bob Adler
          07/17/2004: Open House: Chris Glanton
          08/07/2004: Open House: Erik Leung
          09/19/2004: Plant Swap Temescal Cafe, Jeff Kropp
          10/17/2004: Open House: Michael Laflamme
          11/21/2004: San Jose Plant Swap: Karlton Lau
          12/12/2004: Open House: Bill Harada

          Yahoo! Greetings
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8293 From: Angela Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: High Nitrites
          After almost two weeks using the nitra zorb pillow, my nitrites
          continue to be high. The tank is 20 gallons and has two zebra
          danios and a frog. What should I do? Should I do a water change -
          if so how much? Continue with the nitra zorb? How long?

          Thanks,
          Angela
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8294 From: Amalthea Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
          We have kept some japanese grasses successfully in with our turtles,
          they don't even try to eat them, you can give that a shot.
          amalthea
          http://www.amaltheasattic.com
          Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
          On Feb 5, 2005, at 7:03 AM, Lyndsay wrote:

          >
          > Now I am confused. LOL. I am an Australian and the species is Aussie
          > too. We have had them for many years and had some quite large ones
          > too, the larger ones eventually went to a friend's place (she has the
          > space for them). This little girl's shell is 12cm in diameter. She
          > has a sort of 'dock' which she can climb onto if she wants although
          > she spends most of her time swimming. We plan on getting her a
          > larger, better 'dock' soon. We have never had plants with any of ours
          > before but we thought it may make the water a little better and look
          > nicer. It may also make it more interesting for her too. She is in a
          > 5 foot tank (don't know the exact measurements, during the school
          > year she lives in that tank at my mother's work, during the holidays
          > she comes home), at the moment I am at home and so can't go measure
          > it up. So any readily available hardy plants that would be suitable
          > for the tank?
          >
          > We call her female but we are actually unsure. Anyone know how to sex
          > them?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
          >  
          > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >  
          > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > Service.
          >
          >
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8295 From: Amalthea Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Tortoise or Turtle
          this is the same as squares and rectangles.
          all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.
          similarly, all tortoises are turtles, but not all turtles are
          tortoises.
          amalthea
          http://www.amaltheasattic.com
          Your Alternative to the Alternative....
          On Feb 5, 2005, at 7:44 AM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

          >     H'lo,
          >       Here is a link (got it from entering 'Australian Dictionary'
          > into Google), and it contains a reference to what I believe was the
          > reptile mentioned in a recent email, that was referred to as a
          > Tortoise. This link refers to it as a 'Turtle'. (by the way. I entered
          > the word 'Tortoise' into its search engine, and what followed was the
          > description in the link below, that describes the animal as a
          > 'Turtle')
          >                           Joe Pascavage
          >  
          > http://www.dict.mq.edu.au/anonymous%409F74494439%2B1/-/p/macnet/
          > title_results.html?type=title&first=1&last=22¤t=10
          >
          >
          > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
          >  
          > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >  
          > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > Service.
          >
          >
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8296 From: Amalthea Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: obese looking oranda
          we have a few of them and they do tend to look, once they grow, like a
          basketball with a pinhead and fins. as long as the scales are flat and
          the behavior stays the same it should be ok!
          amalthea
          Bored? Never Fear!
          http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
          On Feb 5, 2005, at 10:12 AM, terri wrote:

          > One of my Oranda's is getting rounder and rounder.  Sometimes now when
          > I look at it straight on it looks like it's leaning a little towards
          > one side.  Is that normal?  Really it looks like it swallowed a golf
          > ball.  It's still active and swims around, noses around in the gravel
          > etc, it just looks funny. I only have 2 and the other one looks fine. 
          >
          > Terri
          >
          >
          > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
          >  
          > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >  
          > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > Service.
          >
          >
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8297 From: Amalthea Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
          often with aquatic turtles, you can tell by belly shape and claw
          length. females tend to have much longer claws (for digging to burry
          eggs) and males tend to have concave bellies (for mating purposes.)
          each species does differ though, so a bit of research would help out!

          In a message dated 2/5/2005 7:05:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
          littlelasgirl@... writes:

          We call her female but we are actually unsure. Anyone know how to sex
          them?


          It depends on the species. Eastern Box Turtles (North American, common
          on the Eastern Seaboard and currently federally protected), for
          example, are typically determined by the color of their eyes --
          red/orange eyes denote a male. BTW, while they enjoy a good soak, they
          only _bob_ well and don't swim, so they aren't really turtles. ;-)

           

          You'd have to find more information on your 'girl'. =)

           

          Vicky
          http://www.amaltheasattic.com
          Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8298 From: Carly Smith Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: convict fry..Rob and Paul
          Rob,

          The convicts have their own tank...the oscars will only be getting a few every now and then, and judging from watching oscars go after previous live food, I have no concerns about them ignoring any convicts I put in there! I have been warned to feed the convicts before they get too big as they are too fast for teh oscars when they get big. If all else fails and I end up with too many, I will suck up any future eggs till I am ready for more babies. They do take a bit to grow up, but much faster than a few other fish that I could be raising as feeders!

          Hopefully I won't have any problems in the near future with too many!

          >see where I am going with this?

          >becareful because you might over run your other >tanks with them..

          >rob
          >NE Indiana

          Paul,
          Can you not get convicts there, or are you just wanting a bunch as feeders? Anyways, they are only about a month old now, so still pretty small, but I will le you know when they get a bit bigger...I may take you up on your offer!

          >if you are interested in shipping them overnight or
          >something, i'd pay the shipping
          >lol
          >paul
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8299 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: shipping convicts
          When my mother came out to our house a few years ago she fell in love with my convicts.  I took and put about 25 babies ( free swimming but less then 1/8" in a 1/2 filled Pepsi 2 liter bottle  and mailed it to her. I live in Indiana she lives in Oregon ( 2300 miles)  I shipped it priority mail it took 3 days to get there and she only had 4 losses out of the whole bunch. The weather in between ranged from Cold and wet 40's in Oregon and warm and humid 80's in Indiana. I did ship on Monday morning. as my post office trucks mail out at 10am and 4pm.

          just a little bit of info....





          In a message dated 2/5/2005 6:54:04 PM US Eastern Standard Time, questnjurny@... writes:


          Paul,
          Can you not get convicts there, or are you just wanting a bunch as feeders?  Anyways, they are only about a month old now, so still pretty small, but I will le you know when they get a bit bigger...I may take you up on your offer!



          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8300 From: lesakalez Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Kissing Gourami not very flirty.
          My boyfriend recently bought two kissing gouramis and we are both a
          little curious about the normal beharvior of these fish. One seems
          to be very fiesty during feeding times. It nips at the gold fish in
          the tank and leaves the catfish alone. The other gourami just hangs
          out in the corner at the bottom of the tank. It comes to the top
          and eats, but then just hangs out and never wants to make out with
          its counterpart. Please help!
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8301 From: harry perry Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Kissing Gourami not very flirty./ Temp.
          Maybe it doesn't like it's "counterpart". Anyhow gouramis are tropical fish and goldfish are not. What is the temp. of this tank?. 

          lesakalez <lesakalez@...> wrote:


          My boyfriend recently bought two kissing gouramis and we are both a
          little curious about the normal beharvior of these fish.  One seems
          to be very fiesty during feeding times.  It nips at the gold fish in
          the tank and leaves the catfish alone. The other gourami just hangs
          out in the corner at the bottom of the tank.  It comes to the top
          and eats, but then just hangs out and never wants to make out with
          its counterpart.  Please help!








          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8302 From: paul helms Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Kissing Gourami not very flirty.
          kissing gourami are not actually kissing, the males
          and females court by grabbing eachother gently, but
          two males will fight by biting eachothers mouths.
          they should not be "making out". as far as the
          goldfish goes, if it is in the way......it will be
          bitten
          --- lesakalez <lesakalez@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > My boyfriend recently bought two kissing gouramis
          > and we are both a
          > little curious about the normal beharvior of these
          > fish. One seems
          > to be very fiesty during feeding times. It nips at
          > the gold fish in
          > the tank and leaves the catfish alone. The other
          > gourami just hangs
          > out in the corner at the bottom of the tank. It
          > comes to the top
          > and eats, but then just hangs out and never wants to
          > make out with
          > its counterpart. Please help!
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >




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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8303 From: paul helms Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: High Nitrites
          your water source probably has high nitrate to start
          with. a 20 gallon tank with 2 danios and a frog
          should be extremely low....many chemicals that absorb
          nitrate can only be used for a max of 2 days and will
          re release the nitrate after that time
          --- Angela <angelasjenkins@...> wrote:

          >
          > After almost two weeks using the nitra zorb pillow,
          > my nitrites
          > continue to be high. The tank is 20 gallons and has
          > two zebra
          > danios and a frog. What should I do? Should I do a
          > water change -
          > if so how much? Continue with the nitra zorb? How
          > long?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Angela
          >
          >
          >
          >




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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8304 From: pickles Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Kissing Gourami not very flirty.
          LOL,  
          They don't really KISS as we know Kissing...most of the time they are trying to establish dominance over the over fish...
          Gold fish don't belong with tropical...goldfish need room temp or colder water and your gourmi need to be about 75 degrees...also gold fish can make your water spike in Ammonia levels as they are a bigger fish,thicker..and pee more...gold fish are better kept separately from other species...JMO...:>)  ...Mary
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: lesakalez
          Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 4:32 PM
          Subject: [AquaticLife] Kissing Gourami not very flirty.



          My boyfriend recently bought two kissing gouramis and we are both a
          little curious about the normal beharvior of these fish.  One seems
          to be very fiesty during feeding times.  It nips at the gold fish in
          the tank and leaves the catfish alone. The other gourami just hangs
          out in the corner at the bottom of the tank.  It comes to the top
          and eats, but then just hangs out and never wants to make out with
          its counterpart.  Please help!








          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8305 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: High Nitrites
          But my nitrites are low, not nitrate.  Are they the same thing?  I've had other fish, but they died.  My nitrites were low when I began cycling my tank and I've never really had high ammonia.  Do you have any suggestions?
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          your water source probably has high nitrate to start
          with.   a 20 gallon tank with 2 danios and a frog
          should be extremely low....many chemicals that absorb
          nitrate can only be used for a max of 2 days and will
          re release the nitrate after that time
          --- Angela <angelasjenkins@...> wrote:

          >
          > After almost two weeks using the nitra zorb pillow,
          > my nitrites
          > continue to be high.  The tank is 20 gallons and has
          > two zebra
          > danios and a frog.  What should I do?  Should I do a
          > water change -
          > if so how much?  Continue with the nitra zorb?  How
          > long? 
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Angela
          >
          >
          >
          >



                     
          __________________________________
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          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8306 From: Anne Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: cleaning an old aquarium
          Hi, While wandering the local farmers market today I
          came accross a 10-15 gal. aquarium the guy was selling
          for %5.00 that I picked up for my grandsons white
          cloud minnows. It came with light hood, filter (which
          I tossed), gravel-tossed that too, a heater (still in
          the box, juries out on that)
          - and water(rain) so I know it holds water ok. I'd
          like some advice on giving this a thorough cleaning.
          Thanks
          Anne



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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8307 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
          I'd advise using a bleach and water solution to clean the tank inside and out. Rinse...
          Repeat if needed..

          rob
          NE Indiana
          USA


          In a message dated 2/5/2005 8:50:15 PM US Eastern Standard Time, md_gustoby@... writes:


          Hi, While wandering the local farmers market today I
          came accross a 10-15 gal. aquarium the guy was selling
          for %5.00 that I picked up for my grandsons white
          cloud minnows.  It came with light hood, filter (which
          I tossed), gravel-tossed that too, a heater (still in
          the box, juries out on that)
          - and water(rain) so I know it holds water ok. I'd
          like some advice on giving this a thorough cleaning.
          Thanks
          Anne


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8308 From: Steve Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
          Anne,

          Depends on the condition of the tank. If it is real dirty, take one of those
          cloth scrubby type things to it, along with a lot of elbow grease. Do not,
          under any circumstances, use soap, or any product with soap in it. If, when
          dry, you have a white ring around it, this is a mineral deposit, and you can
          use vinegar on that, along with a lot of elbow grease. I'll also use salted
          water when cleaning, to help get rid of any nasties present. Once I've
          gotten this step done, I'll mix in a lot of bleach in water and let the tank
          soak for a few hours. Can't really tell you how much to use, I just dump a
          bunch in the water until it seems right <g>. Then I'll rinse until I can't
          smell the chlorine any longer. If I am being really cautious, I'll give it
          another salt rinse before setting it up.

          \\Steve//

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Anne [mailto:md_gustoby@...]
          Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 8:49 PM
          To: AquaticLife
          Subject: [AquaticLife] cleaning an old aquarium



          Hi, While wandering the local farmers market today I
          came accross a 10-15 gal. aquarium the guy was selling
          for %5.00 that I picked up for my grandsons white
          cloud minnows. It came with light hood, filter (which
          I tossed), gravel-tossed that too, a heater (still in
          the box, juries out on that)
          - and water(rain) so I know it holds water ok. I'd
          like some advice on giving this a thorough cleaning.
          Thanks
          Anne



          __________________________________
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          Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
          http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250



          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks

          Yahoo! Groups Links
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8309 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
             When I had aquaria, I used bleach and water, and had an adapter that fit to the shower outlet, (after you remove the shower-head.). To that I attached a hose and to the use-end, a spray-head for a garden hose. Since tanks usually have a plastic rim around the top and bottom edge, I used the most practical intensity of water pressure to ensure the sodium-hypochlorite was removed from the spaces between the glass and plastic rim. For smaller aquaria I used the bath tub. I think I may even have used the tub for a 75 gallon tank. And I worry about calcium deposite retaining bleach solution. You can manually remove calcium deposits with a single or double edged razor-blade, and slight deposits can be removed or loosened with vinegar and cloth. Of course you should rinse the vinegar too.
                                               Joe Pascavage
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          I'd advise using a bleach and water solution to clean the tank inside and out. Rinse...
          Repeat if needed..

          rob
          NE Indiana
          USA


          In a message dated 2/5/2005 8:50:15 PM US Eastern Standard Time, md_gustoby@... writes:


          Hi, While wandering the local farmers market today I
          came accross a 10-15 gal. aquarium the guy was selling
          for %5.00 that I picked up for my grandsons white
          cloud minnows.  It came with light hood, filter (which
          I tossed), gravel-tossed that too, a heater (still in
          the box, juries out on that)
          - and water(rain) so I know it holds water ok. I'd
          like some advice on giving this a thorough cleaning.
          Thanks
          Anne




          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8310 From: Anne Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
          Ok, looks like I've got my work cut out for me:-)
          Thanks for all the help and suggestions.
          Anne


          __________________________________________________
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8311 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: shipping convicts
          Mine didn't take that long of a trip but I bought 2 goldfish in
          california put each in a 1 liter bottle 75% full in my carry on. They
          rode on the plane and under another small one that made me check my
          bag..... and they did fine. The whole trip with waiting and layovers
          was about 9 hours.

          I took and put about 25 babies ( free swimming but less then 1/8"
          > in a 1/2 filled Pepsi 2 liter bottle and mailed it to her.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8312 From: Amalthea Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: shipping convicts
          most carriers will not allow fish to be carried on board like this now,
          so be careful. also, putting fish in an un-pressurized cabin is risky
          particularly for tropicals.
          amalthea
          Get em' while they're cheap!
          Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the
          Basement....
          http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
          On Feb 5, 2005, at 10:35 PM, mommy2acdhsurvivor wrote:

          >
          > Mine didn't take that long of a trip but I bought 2 goldfish in
          > california put each in a 1 liter bottle 75% full in my carry on. They
          > rode on the plane and under another small one that made me check my
          > bag..... and they did fine. The whole trip with waiting and layovers
          > was about 9 hours.
          >
          > I took and put about 25 babies ( free swimming but less then 1/8"
          > > in a 1/2 filled Pepsi 2 liter bottle  and mailed it to her.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
          >  
          > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >  
          > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > Service.
          >
          >
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8313 From: pickles Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Breeding fish
          When I had my fish shop they were shipped to me in plastic bags filled with
          oxygen, (not just air) in side Styrofoam boxes, and for the most part they
          would have the heat packs. But my fish didn't have to travle too far...In
          the summer gold fish, esp. the feeders would have cooling packs.... just
          remember whjen shipping ... to use oxygen and Never Blow into the bag...
          carbon dioxide kills fish ... :>) ...Mary

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
          To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 10:03 AM
          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Breeding fish


          >
          > styrofoam boxes with the air bags instead of peanuts
          > work re4ally well. they also have heating and cooling
          > packs available. i think it is terri that ships
          > snails a lot...she could give you details. most fish
          > are shipped with cooling packs though to keep their
          > metabolism slow and cause less stress
          > paul
          > --- Ben Noreau <ben_noreau@...> wrote:
          >
          > > Hello,
          > >
          > > No, I live in Northern NY. I do make frequent
          > > trips to Syracuse and I wouldnt have a problem
          > > driving the extra hour or so. I would be willing to
          > > make arrangements. I have yahoo messenger my id is
          > > Ben_Noreau or privately email me my address is
          > > Ben_Noreau@.... I am currently working on
          > > developing a transportation container for the fish.
          > > Something that would keep the fish warm and secure.
          > >
          > >
          > > Ben
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Ben
          > >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
          > http://my.yahoo.com
          >
          >
          >
          > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8314 From: Lyndsay Date: 2/5/2005
          Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
          Thanks for the help everyone. I will have to do some research! :)
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8315 From: Lyndsay Date: 2/6/2005
          Subject: Re: Plants for a tortise in a tank
          Well elodia is out of the question, it is actually ileagal to keep
          here in Australia because it gets into waterways and because it is so
          hardy it is very hard to get rid of.

          > any species of elodia is very hardy and great for
          > cleaning up the waer. i don't know how available it
          > is to you, as it's origign is canada, but it is cheap
          > and hardy and will come back from being nibbled very
          > quickly.
          > paul
          > --- Lyndsay <littlelasgirl@h...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > Now I am confused. LOL. I am an Australian and the
          > > species is Aussie
          > > too. We have had them for many years and had some
          > > quite large ones
          > > too, the larger ones eventually went to a friend's
          > > place (she has the
          > > space for them). This little girl's shell is 12cm in
          > > diameter. She
          > > has a sort of 'dock' which she can climb onto if she
          > > wants although
          > > she spends most of her time swimming. We plan on
          > > getting her a
          > > larger, better 'dock' soon. We have never had plants
          > > with any of ours
          > > before but we thought it may make the water a little
          > > better and look
          > > nicer. It may also make it more interesting for her
          > > too. She is in a
          > > 5 foot tank (don't know the exact measurements,
          > > during the school
          > > year she lives in that tank at my mother's work,
          > > during the holidays
          > > she comes home), at the moment I am at home and so
          > > can't go measure
          > > it up. So any readily available hardy plants that
          > > would be suitable
          > > for the tank?
          > >
          > > We call her female but we are actually unsure.
          > > Anyone know how to sex
          > > them?
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
          > http://my.yahoo.com
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8316 From: Aaron Date: 2/6/2005
          Subject: Re: photos....wtf?
          Hi All,

          Please use the "Delete full size only" option on your group photos to
          conserve space.

          Thank You


          ------------

          Warning! Your account is restricted since it is over quota.
          Delete enough photos and/or files to bring your account within quota.


          Storage Notice! Using 30.29 of 30 MB (100%) of your Photos/Briefcase
          quota. You are running out of space.

          -------


          After going thru all the albums and using the optin to -

          "Delete full size only"

          Warning: This operation will permanently delete only the high
          resolution version of the photo you have selected. It will not delete
          the sharing/viewing version. By deleting the high resolution version,
          you will be limiting the quality of prints you can order from this
          photo. Are you sure you want to delete?

          Selected items:

          then click "Confirm Delete"

          ------


          Using 23.80 of 30 MB (79%)


          -------

          I also transfered most of my photos to the free Yahoo Photo Album -

          http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ryfraph13/my_photos





          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
          >
          > i posted some pics in our web page and got a message
          > that we are over te limit of storage and now can't see
          > anyone pics...only an error message
          >
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8317 From: Elyse Date: 2/6/2005
          Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
          A brand new 10 gallon tank at PETsMART is around 8 bucks. If I were you I'd
          just go get a new one.


          Thanks!
          Elyse
          elyse@...
          AIM: ElyseRachel

          Canine Castaway's Inc.
          www.CanineCastaways.org
          www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
          The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
          The Tropical Fish Connection:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Anne [mailto:md_gustoby@...]
          Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 8:49 PM
          To: AquaticLife
          Subject: [AquaticLife] cleaning an old aquarium


          Hi, While wandering the local farmers market today I
          came accross a 10-15 gal. aquarium the guy was selling
          for %5.00 that I picked up for my grandsons white
          cloud minnows. It came with light hood, filter (which
          I tossed), gravel-tossed that too, a heater (still in
          the box, juries out on that)
          - and water(rain) so I know it holds water ok. I'd
          like some advice on giving this a thorough cleaning.
          Thanks
          Anne



          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
          http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250



          please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks

          Yahoo! Groups Links
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8318 From: Elyse Date: 2/6/2005
          Subject: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads . . .
          Attachments :
            Hi all:

            I am in the process of setting up my new 120 gallon tank. It came with an
            under gravel filter as part of the package. I have never used one before,
            but was considering it for this tank. I will have 2 MarineLand 400
            Bio-Wheels going, but thought that some extra filtration for a tank this
            size would be a good idea.

            Any recommendations on Power Heads for a tank and system this size? Any
            thought on Pro's and Cons to using the under gravel filter rather than
            adding on a Canister of some type?

            Thanks!
            Elyse
            elyse@elyserachel.com
            AIM: ElyseRachel

            Canine Castaway's Inc.
            www.CanineCastaways.org
            www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
            The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
            The Tropical Fish Connection:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8319 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: shipping convicts
            I actually called to ask if I could carry them on and they asked if I
            was carring on a shark and I said no so he said he would have to ask
            and he said no. But I figured if they found them and told me I
            couldn't take them I would have my friend take them back to the store
            but nope no problems... do you know why they won't let you take them
            on? People ship fish airport to airport?


            > most carriers will not allow fish to be carried on board like this now,
            > so be careful. also, putting fish in an un-pressurized cabin is risky
            > particularly for tropicals.
            > amalthea
            > Get em' while they're cheap!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8320 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: Breeding fish
            Bag buddies work well for oxygen.


            > When I had my fish shop they were shipped to me in plastic bags
            filled with
            > oxygen, (not just air) in side Styrofoam boxes, and for the most
            part they
            > would have the heat packs. But my fish didn't have to travle too
            far...In
            > the summer gold fish, esp. the feeders would have cooling packs.... just
            > remember whjen shipping ... to use oxygen and Never Blow into the bag...
            > carbon dioxide kills fish ... :>) ...Mary
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8321 From: Amalthea Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: shipping convicts
            you really can't take any "non testable" liquids on planes now. i know
            of one woman who was forced to drink her own breast milk. it's a safety
            precaution (though admittedly, the breast milk situation was a bit
            overboard.)
            someone else i know was forced to flush their pet fish down the toilet
            because they had no choice but to get on that flight and they assumed
            it would be ok. many mailing companies won't take live animals either.
            fortunately, the post office will, but many will not. as a rule of
            thumb, always call in advance no matter how you plan on transporting
            fish.
            amalthea
            Get em' while they're cheap!
            Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the
            Basement....
            http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
            On Feb 6, 2005, at 11:24 AM, mommy2acdhsurvivor wrote:

            >
            > I actually called to ask if I could carry them on and they asked if I
            > was carring on a shark and I said no so he said he would have to ask
            > and he said no. But I figured if they found them and told me I
            > couldn't take them I would have my friend take them back to the store
            > but nope no problems... do you know why they won't let you take them
            > on? People ship fish airport to airport?
            >
            >
            > > most carriers will not allow fish to be carried on board like this
            > now,
            > > so be careful. also, putting fish in an un-pressurized cabin is
            > risky
            > > particularly for tropicals.
            > > amalthea
            > > Get em' while they're cheap!
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            >  
            > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >  
            > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > Service.
            >
            >
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8322 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: High Nitrites
            Click the link under my name and you will be greatly enlightened. 
             
            Patrick, the American Fish Guy
             
            Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
            About my tanks:  
            29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
            -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
            -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
            -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
            10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
            -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
            -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
            -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
            -------Original Message-------
            But my nitrites are low, not nitrate.  Are they the same thing?  I've had other fish, but they died.  My nitrites were low when I began cycling my tank and I've never really had high ammonia.  Do you have any suggestions?
            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8323 From: paul helms Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads . . .
            2 301 power heads would work great
            --- Elyse <elyse@...> wrote:

            > Hi all:
            >
            > I am in the process of setting up my new 120 gallon
            > tank. It came with an
            > under gravel filter as part of the package. I have
            > never used one before,
            > but was considering it for this tank. I will have 2
            > MarineLand 400
            > Bio-Wheels going, but thought that some extra
            > filtration for a tank this
            > size would be a good idea.
            >
            > Any recommendations on Power Heads for a tank and
            > system this size? Any
            > thought on Pro's and Cons to using the under gravel
            > filter rather than
            > adding on a Canister of some type?
            >
            > Thanks!
            > Elyse
            > elyse@...
            > AIM: ElyseRachel
            >
            > Canine Castaway's Inc.
            > www.CanineCastaways.org
            > www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
            > The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
            > The Tropical Fish Connection:
            >
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/
            >
            >
            >

            > ATTACHMENT part 2 application/ms-tnef
            name=winmail.dat





            __________________________________
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            The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
            http://my.yahoo.com
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8324 From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
            But the one she got for $5 came with a light hood, which alone was probably worth buying for that price. 
             
            Patrick, the American Fish Guy
             
            Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
            About my tanks:  
            29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
            -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
            -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
            -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
            10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
            -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
            -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
            -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
            -------Original Message-------
            A brand new 10 gallon tank at PETsMART is around 8 bucks.  If I were you I'd
            just go get a new one.


            Thanks!
            Elyse
            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8325 From: harry perry Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse
            My opinion. Your better choice would be with the canister filter. Live plants do better without a UGF. Also a friend on another list lost an entire tank in minutes when toxic gas was released during planting. They seem like more trouble than they are worth.
             
            Harry

            paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
            2 301 power heads would work great
            --- Elyse <elyse@...> wrote:

            > Hi all:
            >
            > I am in the process of setting up my new 120 gallon
            > tank.  It came with an
            > under gravel filter as part of the package.  I have
            > never used one before,
            > but was considering it for this tank.  I will have 2
            > MarineLand 400
            > Bio-Wheels going, but thought that some extra
            > filtration for a tank this
            > size would be a good idea.
            >
            > Any recommendations on Power Heads for a tank and
            > system this size?  Any
            > thought on Pro's and Cons to using the under gravel
            > filter rather than
            > adding on a Canister of some type?
            >
            > Thanks!
            > Elyse
            > elyse@...
            > AIM: ElyseRachel
            >
            > Canine Castaway's Inc.
            > www.CanineCastaways.org
            > www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
            > The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
            > The Tropical Fish Connection:
            >
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/
            >
            >
            >

            > ATTACHMENT part 2 application/ms-tnef
            name=winmail.dat




                       
            __________________________________
            Do you Yahoo!?
            The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
            http://my.yahoo.com




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8326 From: Steve Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse
            With a properly installed, working UGF, there will be no "toxic gas" to be
            released when disturbing the substrate. Such releases are far more common
            with substrate beds tat have no water flow through them, and have not been
            periodically cleaned or disturbed to remove the debris that will inevitably
            collect in them. It is this debris that, as it decays, will produce gases
            such as hydrogen sulphide, and release possible toxins in the water if it is
            disturbed. In fact, the release of gas, visible by bubbles rising to the
            surface, have to little time in contact with the water to have a significant
            effect on the concentration of the various gases in the water column.

            \\Steve//

            -----Original Message-----
            From: harry perry [mailto:harryfisherman@...]
            Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 2:29 PM
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse


            My opinion. Your better choice would be with the canister filter. Live
            plants do better without a UGF. Also a friend on another list lost an entire
            tank in minutes when toxic gas was released during planting. They seem like
            more trouble than they are worth.

            Harry

            paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
            2 301 power heads would work great
            --- Elyse <elyse@...> wrote:

            > Hi all:
            >
            > I am in the process of setting up my new 120 gallon
            > tank. It came with an
            > under gravel filter as part of the package. I have
            > never used one before,
            > but was considering it for this tank. I will have 2
            > MarineLand 400
            > Bio-Wheels going, but thought that some extra
            > filtration for a tank this
            > size would be a good idea.
            >
            > Any recommendations on Power Heads for a tank and
            > system this size? Any
            > thought on Pro's and Cons to using the under gravel
            > filter rather than
            > adding on a Canister of some type?
            >
            > Thanks!
            > Elyse
            > elyse@...
            > AIM: ElyseRachel
            >
            > Canine Castaway's Inc.
            > www.CanineCastaways.org
            > www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
            > The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
            > The Tropical Fish Connection:
            >
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8327 From: harry perry Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse/Steve
            So. we agree to disagree. That's good, something is always learned. What about the interaction between plants and an UGF.
             
            Harry 

            Steve <steve@...> wrote:
            With a properly installed, working UGF, there will be no "toxic gas" to be
            released when disturbing the substrate. Such releases are far more common
            with substrate beds tat have no water flow through them, and have not been
            periodically cleaned or disturbed to remove the debris that will inevitably
            collect in them. It is this debris that, as it decays, will produce gases
            such as hydrogen sulphide, and release possible toxins in the water if it is
            disturbed. In fact, the release of gas, visible by bubbles rising to the
            surface, have to little time in contact with the water to have a significant
            effect on the concentration of the various gases in the water column.

            \\Steve//

            -----Original Message-----
            From: harry perry [mailto:harryfisherman@...]
            Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 2:29 PM
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse


            My opinion. Your better choice would be with the canister filter. Live
            plants do better without a UGF. Also a friend on another list lost an entire
            tank in minutes when toxic gas was released during planting. They seem like
            more trouble than they are worth.

            Harry

            paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
            2 301 power heads would work great
            --- Elyse <elyse@...> wrote:

            > Hi all:
            >
            > I am in the process of setting up my new 120 gallon
            > tank.  It came with an
            > under gravel filter as part of the package.  I have
            > never used one before,
            > but was considering it for this tank.  I will have 2
            > MarineLand 400
            > Bio-Wheels going, but thought that some extra
            > filtration for a tank this
            > size would be a good idea.
            >
            > Any recommendations on Power Heads for a tank and
            > system this size?  Any
            > thought on Pro's and Cons to using the under gravel
            > filter rather than
            > adding on a Canister of some type?
            >
            > Thanks!
            > Elyse
            > elyse@...
            > AIM: ElyseRachel
            >
            > Canine Castaway's Inc.
            > www.CanineCastaways.org
            > www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
            > The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
            > The Tropical Fish Connection:
            >
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Do you Yahoo!?
            Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8329 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse/Steve
               You can cut glass to the proper measurements (sand-paper or grind the edges for safety) and make a four sided box to accept an Undergravel filter. Make the sides high enough to allow just the right amount of submersion beneath the gravel. Silicone sealant (guaranteed aquarium-safe) the sides together while you're sealantizing the box to anywhere on the bottom of your tank. Place the UGF inside, and plant anywhere but over the filter. Wait the right amount of time for the sealant to cure, of course.
                The glass sections and sealant has also been suggested to keep sloped gravel in place. I did the aforementioned, and though the Corys' I kept pretty well re-distributed the gravel, it was relatively minimized.
                                                           Joe Pascavage
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            So. we agree to disagree. That's good, something is always learned. What about the interaction between plants and an UGF.
             
            Harry 

            Steve <steve@...> wrote:
            With a properly installed, working UGF, there will be no "toxic gas" to be
            released when disturbing the substrate. Such releases are far more common
            with substrate beds tat have no water flow through them, and have not been
            periodically cleaned or disturbed to remove the debris that will inevitably
            collect in them. It is this debris that, as it decays, will produce gases
            such as hydrogen sulphide, and release possible toxins in the water if it is
            disturbed. In fact, the release of gas, visible by bubbles rising to the
            surface, have to little time in contact with the water to have a significant
            effect on the concentration of the various gases in the water column.

            \\Steve//

            -----Original Message-----
            From: harry perry [mailto:harryfisherman@...]
            Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 2:29 PM
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse


            My opinion. Your better choice would be with the canister filter. Live
            plants do better without a UGF. Also a friend on another list lost an entire
            tank in minutes when toxic gas was released during planting. They seem like
            more trouble than they are worth.

            Harry

            paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
            2 301 power heads would work great
            --- Elyse <elyse@...> wrote:

            > Hi all:
            >
            > I am in the process of setting up my new 120 gallon
            > tank.  It came with an
            > under gravel filter as part of the package.  I have
            > never used one before,
            > but was considering it for this tank.  I will have 2
            > MarineLand 400
            > Bio-Wheels going, but thought that some extra
            > filtration for a tank this
            > size would be a good idea.
            >
            > Any recommendations on Power Heads for a tank and
            > system this size?  Any
            > thought on Pro's and Cons to using the under gravel
            > filter rather than
            > adding on a Canister of some type?
            >
            > Thanks!
            > Elyse
            > elyse@...
            > AIM: ElyseRachel
            >
            > Canine Castaway's Inc.
            > www.CanineCastaways.org
            > www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
            > The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
            > The Tropical Fish Connection:
            >
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Do you Yahoo!?
            Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.

            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8330 From: Elyse Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium

            If u read the original post, she says she threw away the hood, filter, etc.

             

             

            Thanks!
            Elyse
            elyse@...
            AIM: ElyseRachel

            Canine Castaway’s Inc.
            www.CanineCastaways.org
            www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
            The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
            The Tropical Fish Connection:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/


            From: Patrick, The American Fish Guy [mailto:americanfishguy@...]
            Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 2:22 PM
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] cleaning an old aquarium

             

            But the one she got for $5 came with a light hood, which alone was probably worth buying for that price. 

             

            Patrick, the American Fish Guy

             

            Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.

            Nitrogen Cycle

            About my tanks:  

            29 gallon tank (110 Litters).

            -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.

            -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.

            -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.

            10 gallon tank (38 Liters).

            -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.

            -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.

            -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.

            -------Original Message-------

            A brand new 10 gallon tank at PETsMART is around 8 bucks.  If I were you I'd
            just go get a new one.


            Thanks!
            Elyse

             

             

             

            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8331 From: pickles Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse
            I would have to tend to agree with Steve on this one....I have always had UGF's and never had a problem with getting plants to grow...or poisonous gases...I always assumed that it would be better media to grow plants in as it has all the good manure qualities as compost and plus with proper cleaning, vacuuming, nothing bad ever gets a chance to build up....the plants would thrive...anyway that's always been the case with my tanks....just my observation after over 38 yrs of fish keeping...Mary :>)
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Steve
            Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 12:18 PM
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse

            With a properly installed, working UGF, there will be no "toxic gas" to be
            released when disturbing the substrate. Such releases are far more common
            with substrate beds tat have no water flow through them, and have not been
            periodically cleaned or disturbed to remove the debris that will inevitably
            collect in them. It is this debris that, as it decays, will produce gases
            such as hydrogen sulphide, and release possible toxins in the water if it is
            disturbed. In fact, the release of gas, visible by bubbles rising to the
            surface, have to little time in contact with the water to have a significant
            effect on the concentration of the various gases in the water column.

            \\Steve//

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8332 From: Patrick N. Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
                Well, I re-read it and it looks to me like the hood was kept and the filter and gravel were tossed.
             
            "It came with light hood, filter (which I tossed), gravel-tossed that too, a heater (still in the box, juries out on that)" 
             
            Patrick, the American Fish Guy
             
            Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
            About my tanks:  
            29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
            -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
            -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
            -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
            10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
            -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
            -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
            -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
            -------Original Message-------

            If u read the original post, she says she threw away the hood, filter, etc.

             

             

            Thanks!
            Elyse

            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8333 From: Patrick N. Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: a new argument against new ugfs
                A properly run ugf is great (and rare), but when you compare the prices you find that a power filter for the same sized tank is about the same price, more with power heads.  Of course, if the ugf came with the tank that is not an issue.  But if you are buying a new filter, it would really be bad for your budget and no better for the tank to buy a ugf compared to a good power filter.
             
            Patrick, the American Fish Guy
             
            Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
            About my tanks:  
            29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
            -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
            -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
            -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
            10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
            -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
            -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
            -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8334 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse
               What kind of plants did you grow, and how long did they last? (using an undergravel filter)
                                             Joe Pascavage
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            I would have to tend to agree with Steve on this one....I have always had UGF's and never had a problem with getting plants to grow...or poisonous gases...I always assumed that it would be better media to grow plants in as it has all the good manure qualities as compost and plus with proper cleaning, vacuuming, nothing bad ever gets a chance to build up....the plants would thrive...anyway that's always been the case with my tanks....just my observation after over 38 yrs of fish keeping...Mary :>)
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Steve
            Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 12:18 PM
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse

            With a properly installed, working UGF, there will be no "toxic gas" to be
            released when disturbing the substrate. Such releases are far more common
            with substrate beds tat have no water flow through them, and have not been
            periodically cleaned or disturbed to remove the debris that will inevitably
            collect in them. It is this debris that, as it decays, will produce gases
            such as hydrogen sulphide, and release possible toxins in the water if it is
            disturbed. In fact, the release of gas, visible by bubbles rising to the
            surface, have to little time in contact with the water to have a significant
            effect on the concentration of the various gases in the water column.

            \\Steve//



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8335 From: Elyse Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium

            Great.  So keep the hood and light and get a new, clean tank.

             

             

            Thanks!
            Elyse
            elyse@...
            AIM: ElyseRachel

            Canine Castaway’s Inc.
            www.CanineCastaways.org
            www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
            The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
            The Tropical Fish Connection:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/


            From: Patrick N. [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
            Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 6:43 PM
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] cleaning an old aquarium

             

                Well, I re-read it and it looks to me like the hood was kept and the filter and gravel were tossed.

             

            "It came with light hood, filter (which I tossed), gravel-tossed that too, a heater (still in the box, juries out on that)" 

             

            Patrick, the American Fish Guy

             

            Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.

            Nitrogen Cycle

            About my tanks:  

            29 gallon tank (110 Litters).

            -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.

            -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.

            -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.

            10 gallon tank (38 Liters).

            -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.

            -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.

            -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.

            -------Original Message-------

            If u read the original post, she says she threw away the hood, filter, etc.

             

             

            Thanks!
            Elyse

             

             

             

            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8336 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: The SF Bay Area Killifish Association Quarterly Meeting, 2/19/2005,
            Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
            The SF Bay Area Killifish Association Quarterly Meeting

            Saturday February 19, 2005
            6:15 pm - 7:15 pm
            This event repeats on the third Saturday of every 3 months.
            The next reminder for this event will be sent in 12 days, 4 minutes.

            Event Location: Round Table Pizza, 20920 Redwood Road in Castro Valley
            Notes:
            The SF Bay Area Killifish Association (BAKA) meets on the third Saturday in Feb, May, Aug and Nov.

            http://www.sfbaka.net/

            Saturday, February 19, 2005 at 6:30 pm


            Where:


            Round Table Pizza
            20920 Redwood Road in Castro Valley
            near both highway 580 and the BART station.



            Who:

            Anyone interested in killies


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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8337 From: Anne Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
            "Great. So keep the hood and light and get a new,
            clean tank."

            Nope, gonna keep them both. We cleaned up the tank
            today, a little water and bleach cleaned it up great.
            The hood is in good condition, lights work (needed new
            blubs) and finally got into the bag the guy handed me
            with the aquarium. It contained two heaters, one I
            trashed, the second is still in it's box with
            instructions, and a whisper power pump, that works
            like a charm. Not bad for a couple of bucks.
            Anne







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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8338 From: Steve Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse/Steve
            There were some plants I could never grow with an UGF in place, but there
            were plants I could not grow without a UGF in place. Obviously, I was
            missing something in all non-growing cases. However, I will admit that it
            could be a pain to remove well established plants with a UGF in place as the
            roots will grow through the UGF and back up into the gravel.

            As they say in the car ads, your mileage may vary. If you meet the
            requirements of the plant, it will grow.

            \\Steve//

            -----Original Message-----
            From: harry perry [mailto:harryfisherman@...]
            Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 5:11 PM
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To
            Elyse/Steve


            So. we agree to disagree. That's good, something is always learned. What
            about the interaction between plants and an UGF.

            Harry

            Steve <steve@...> wrote:
            With a properly installed, working UGF, there will be no "toxic gas" to be
            released when disturbing the substrate. Such releases are far more common
            with substrate beds tat have no water flow through them, and have not been
            periodically cleaned or disturbed to remove the debris that will inevitably
            collect in them. It is this debris that, as it decays, will produce gases
            such as hydrogen sulphide, and release possible toxins in the water if it is
            disturbed. In fact, the release of gas, visible by bubbles rising to the
            surface, have to little time in contact with the water to have a significant
            effect on the concentration of the various gases in the water column.

            \\Steve//

            -----Original Message-----
            From: harry perry [mailto:harryfisherman@...]
            Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 2:29 PM
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse


            My opinion. Your better choice would be with the canister filter. Live
            plants do better without a UGF. Also a friend on another list lost an entire
            tank in minutes when toxic gas was released during planting. They seem like
            more trouble than they are worth.

            Harry

            paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
            2 301 power heads would work great
            --- Elyse <elyse@...> wrote:

            > Hi all:
            >
            > I am in the process of setting up my new 120 gallon
            > tank. It came with an
            > under gravel filter as part of the package. I have
            > never used one before,
            > but was considering it for this tank. I will have 2
            > MarineLand 400
            > Bio-Wheels going, but thought that some extra
            > filtration for a tank this
            > size would be a good idea.
            >
            > Any recommendations on Power Heads for a tank and
            > system this size? Any
            > thought on Pro's and Cons to using the under gravel
            > filter rather than
            > adding on a Canister of some type?
            >
            > Thanks!
            > Elyse
            > elyse@...
            > AIM: ElyseRachel
            >
            > Canine Castaway's Inc.
            > www.CanineCastaways.org
            > www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
            > The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
            > The Tropical Fish Connection:
            >
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





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            Yahoo! Groups Links

            To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8339 From: Steve Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: a new argument against new ugfs
            Time was that the UGF was the only way to get a proper biological filter
            going in your tank. That is no longer the case. Today, with biowheels,
            sponge filters, one can adequately biologically filter most tanks without
            the use of a UGF.

            Also, with fish that have a tendency to move gravel, or whatever your
            substrate may be, a UGF was never a good choice for a tank, as the change in
            the substrate made by these fish may be enough to negate the good a UGF
            could do. This led to other ways to achieve biological filtration, which
            brought us to what we have today.

            I would not say that I would never use a UGF today. For a given situation, I
            might do so. However, it is more likely that I would opt for another method
            to achieve biological filtration.

            For many people, they did not realize that a UGF needs a certain routine of
            care and feeding, just like any other filter. This is what leads to a bad
            rap on UGF's. Also that UGF's had limits on them that were not recognized,
            such as mentioned above, led to more bad press on them. The same goes for
            growing plants with them. Those who maintain the UGF very seldom had
            problems, those that did not, had problems.

            Any tool, when used properly, will work as it should.

            \\Steve//

            And the Patriots WON!

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Patrick N. [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
            Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 6:48 PM
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] a new argument against new ugfs


            A properly run ugf is great (and rare), but when you compare the prices
            you find that a power filter for the same sized tank is about the same
            price, more with power heads. Of course, if the ugf came with the tank that
            is not an issue. But if you are buying a new filter, it would really be bad
            for your budget and no better for the tank to buy a ugf compared to a good
            power filter.

            Patrick, the American Fish Guy

            Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
            Nitrogen Cycle
            About my tanks:
            29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
            -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2
            skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise
            gourami.
            -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns,
            hornwort, and amazon swords.
            -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
            10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
            -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
            -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
            -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power
            filter.




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





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            To visit your group on the web, go to:
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8340 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
               I never trusted incandescent bulbs. Felt they'd overheat. And as for aquarium heaters. The ones that hang-on the back of the tank, with the temp-setting dail exposed,  never kept temp-settings reliably. And no amount of adjusting and readjusting would stabilize it.A good submersable is better, and a larger tank holds the temp longer if you have a power outage. (There are also battery-powered emergency heaters available somewhere.)
                                                 Joe Pascavage
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            "Great.  So keep the hood and light and get a new,
            clean tank."

            Nope, gonna keep them both. We cleaned up the tank
            today, a little water and bleach cleaned it up great.
            The hood is in good condition, lights work (needed new
            blubs) and finally got into the bag the guy handed me
            with the aquarium. It contained two heaters, one I
            trashed, the second is still in it's box with
            instructions, and a whisper power pump, that works
            like a charm. Not bad for a couple of bucks.
            Anne






                       
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            Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
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            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8341 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: a new argument against new ugfs
            When I kept goldfish in a 75 gallon tank with a UGF, the fish would scoop gravel and move it around their mouths and spit it out very frequently, but never disturbed the gravel-bed more than to keep leveling it.
                                       Joe P
             
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            Time was that the UGF was the only way to get a proper biological filter
            going in your tank. That is no longer the case. Today, with biowheels,
            sponge filters, one can adequately biologically filter most tanks without
            the use of a UGF.

            Also, with fish that have a tendency to move gravel, or whatever your
            substrate may be, a UGF was never a good choice for a tank, as the change in
            the substrate made by these fish may be enough to negate the good a UGF
            could do. This led to other ways to achieve biological filtration, which
            brought us to what we have today.

            I would not say that I would never use a UGF today. For a given situation, I
            might do so. However, it is more likely that I would opt for another method
            to achieve biological filtration.

            For many people, they did not realize that a UGF needs a certain routine of
            care and feeding, just like any other filter. This is what leads to a bad
            rap on UGF's. Also that UGF's had limits on them that were not recognized,
            such as mentioned above, led to more bad press on them. The same goes for
            growing plants with them. Those who maintain the UGF very seldom had
            problems, those that did not, had problems.

            Any tool, when used properly, will work as it should.

            \\Steve//

            And the Patriots WON!

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Patrick N. [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
            Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 6:48 PM
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] a new argument against new ugfs


                A properly run ugf is great (and rare), but when you compare the prices
            you find that a power filter for the same sized tank is about the same
            price, more with power heads.  Of course, if the ugf came with the tank that
            is not an issue.  But if you are buying a new filter, it would really be bad
            for your budget and no better for the tank to buy a ugf compared to a good
            power filter.

            Patrick, the American Fish Guy

            Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
            Nitrogen Cycle
            About my tanks:
            29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
            -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2
            skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise
            gourami.
            -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns,
            hornwort, and amazon swords.
            -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
            10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
            -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
            -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
            -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power
            filter.




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





            Yahoo! Groups Links

            To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8342 From: paul helms Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: Under gravel Filters & Power Heads ./ To Elyse/Steve
            never had a problem with that in my tanks...
            paul
            --- harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:

            > So. we agree to disagree. That's good, something is
            > always learned. What about the interaction between
            > plants and an UGF.
            >
            > Harry
            >
            > Steve <steve@...> wrote:
            > With a properly installed, working UGF, there will
            > be no "toxic gas" to be
            > released when disturbing the substrate. Such
            > releases are far more common
            > with substrate beds tat have no water flow through
            > them, and have not been
            > periodically cleaned or disturbed to remove the
            > debris that will inevitably
            > collect in them. It is this debris that, as it
            > decays, will produce gases
            > such as hydrogen sulphide, and release possible
            > toxins in the water if it is
            > disturbed. In fact, the release of gas, visible by
            > bubbles rising to the
            > surface, have to little time in contact with the
            > water to have a significant
            > effect on the concentration of the various gases in
            > the water column.
            >
            > \\Steve//
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: harry perry [mailto:harryfisherman@...]
            > Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 2:29 PM
            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Under gravel Filters &
            > Power Heads ./ To Elyse
            >
            >
            > My opinion. Your better choice would be with the
            > canister filter. Live
            > plants do better without a UGF. Also a friend on
            > another list lost an entire
            > tank in minutes when toxic gas was released during
            > planting. They seem like
            > more trouble than they are worth.
            >
            > Harry
            >
            > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
            > 2 301 power heads would work great
            > --- Elyse <elyse@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Hi all:
            > >
            > > I am in the process of setting up my new 120
            > gallon
            > > tank. It came with an
            > > under gravel filter as part of the package. I
            > have
            > > never used one before,
            > > but was considering it for this tank. I will have
            > 2
            > > MarineLand 400
            > > Bio-Wheels going, but thought that some extra
            > > filtration for a tank this
            > > size would be a good idea.
            > >
            > > Any recommendations on Power Heads for a tank and
            > > system this size? Any
            > > thought on Pro's and Cons to using the under
            > gravel
            > > filter rather than
            > > adding on a Canister of some type?
            > >
            > > Thanks!
            > > Elyse
            > > elyse@...
            > > AIM: ElyseRachel
            > >
            > > Canine Castaway's Inc.
            > > www.CanineCastaways.org
            > > www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
            > > The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
            > > The Tropical Fish Connection:
            > >
            >
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when
            > replying, thanks
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
            > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
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            > Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn
            more.




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8343 From: paul helms Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: pics
            i see my goby made the pic on the home page!
            did anyone get to check out the other ones i put in my
            folder?
            paul



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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8344 From: Patrick N. Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
                I had that problem with incandescent bulbs on my 10 gallon, so I got the screw-in fluorescent bulbs and it has been stable since.  Of course, they are cheaper at the little hardware store in town than the pet department of the lwm.
             
            Patrick, the American Fish Guy
             
            Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
            About my tanks:  
            29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
            -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
            -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
            -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
            10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
            -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
            -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
            -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
            -------Original Message-------
               I never trusted incandescent bulbs. Felt they'd overheat. And as for aquarium heaters. The ones that hang-on the back of the tank, with the temp-setting dail exposed,  never kept temp-settings reliably. And no amount of adjusting and readjusting would stabilize it.A good submersable is better, and a larger tank holds the temp longer if you have a power outage. (There are also battery-powered emergency heaters available somewhere.)
                                                 Joe Pascavage
            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8345 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: pics
            All three are good shots, but the Lawn Mower has to be the most
            colorful, with his bright yellow. Nice photography, Ray
            \
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
            > i see my goby made the pic on the home page!
            > did anyone get to check out the other ones i put in my
            > folder?
            > paul
            >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
            > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8346 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: pics
            Hi Paul,
             I checked them out, really neat! I have never seen anything like those. What is a goby? What is lawnmower blenny? I guess you can tell I am not an experienced fish keeper!
            Dorothy
            paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
            i see my goby made the pic on the home page!
            did anyone get to check out the other ones i put in my
            folder?
            paul


                       
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8347 From: pickles Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: a new argument against new ugfs
            I think the biggest mistake people make when installing an UGF, is not putting enough gravel over the UGF..you must have at least 2 " or better, depending on the size tank for proper filtration...in 10 gallons up to 55 gallons I do 2".. I had an UGF in a 200 gallon and had about 4" ..it had 6 risers and 2 power heads, one at each end...I had it for yrs and had many types of fish..plants..decorations in it as it was the main tank as you walked in the shop..its also suggested that you use med size gravel..1/8" to 1/4"...I have grown common types of plants, don't know the scientific names, but like sword plant, Java Fern,Anacharis,Arrowhead and different types of grasses,...etc  nothing too exotic...Mary
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Patrick N.
            Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 3:48 PM
            Subject: [AquaticLife] a new argument against new ugfs

                A properly run ugf is great (and rare), but when you compare the prices you find that a power filter for the same sized tank is about the same price, more with power heads.  Of course, if the ugf came with the tank that is not an issue.  But if you are buying a new filter, it would really be bad for your budget and no better for the tank to buy a ugf compared to a good power filter.
             
            Patrick, the American Fish Guy
             
            Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
            About my tanks:  
            29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
            -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
            -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
            -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
            10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
            -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
            -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
            -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8348 From: Aranel Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Cory cat babies
            Hi guys. I wrote a couple of months ago about finding some cory cat eggs
            in my community tank. Well, the last time I found some I moved them into
            my fry tank. It's a ten gallon with some (fake) floating plants, a
            little cave, some old gravel that's every color imaginable, a whisper
            filter, three black mollies that are about two weeks old, and three
            month old balloon mollie. (Needless to say it's not my most attractive
            tank.)

            Well, the eggs looked like all of them had gotten fungus so I forgot
            about them. Then a few days ago I noticed something zooming around the
            edge of the tank. It turns out I have two cory babies! They're really
            hard to see, but every now and then one of them will zoom to the top.
            They're getting more and more active as they get older.

            Now to my problem. Since I can't seen them very well I haven't been able
            to vacuum the gravel. I'm afraid of sucking one of them up. Also, will
            they just eat the food that falls to the bottom of the tank, or should I
            try to buy something special for them? How long will it take them to
            mature? I *think* they're corydoras aeneus ( have both bronze and
            albinos) but they look a little bit like my corydoras melanistius (black
            sail).

            I can't believe any of them actually hatched. I was under the impression
            it was really hard to get them to breed.

            -Aranel

            PS: I posted this to another group I'm on, I hope no-one gets it twice. ;)
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8349 From: paul helms Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: Cory cat babies
            they grow fairly quickly, but no you do not have to
            target feed them.. you can but sinking pellets
            occasionally. my albinos have hatched twice now
            --- Aranel <aranel@...> wrote:

            > Hi guys. I wrote a couple of months ago about
            > finding some cory cat eggs
            > in my community tank. Well, the last time I found
            > some I moved them into
            > my fry tank. It's a ten gallon with some (fake)
            > floating plants, a
            > little cave, some old gravel that's every color
            > imaginable, a whisper
            > filter, three black mollies that are about two weeks
            > old, and three
            > month old balloon mollie. (Needless to say it's not
            > my most attractive
            > tank.)
            >
            > Well, the eggs looked like all of them had gotten
            > fungus so I forgot
            > about them. Then a few days ago I noticed something
            > zooming around the
            > edge of the tank. It turns out I have two cory
            > babies! They're really
            > hard to see, but every now and then one of them will
            > zoom to the top.
            > They're getting more and more active as they get
            > older.
            >
            > Now to my problem. Since I can't seen them very well
            > I haven't been able
            > to vacuum the gravel. I'm afraid of sucking one of
            > them up. Also, will
            > they just eat the food that falls to the bottom of
            > the tank, or should I
            > try to buy something special for them? How long will
            > it take them to
            > mature? I *think* they're corydoras aeneus ( have
            > both bronze and
            > albinos) but they look a little bit like my
            > corydoras melanistius (black
            > sail).
            >
            > I can't believe any of them actually hatched. I was
            > under the impression
            > it was really hard to get them to breed.
            >
            > -Aranel
            >
            > PS: I posted this to another group I'm on, I hope
            > no-one gets it twice. ;)
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8350 From: paul helms Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: pics
            they are both salt water fish. the lawnmower blenny
            is an algae eater. they eat string/hair algae from
            teh rocks....the other is a yellow watchman or sulfer
            goby.
            --- dorothy wheeler <duchess562000@...> wrote:

            > Hi Paul,
            > I checked them out, really neat! I have never seen
            > anything like those. What is a goby? What is
            > lawnmower blenny? I guess you can tell I am not an
            > experienced fish keeper!
            > Dorothy
            > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
            > i see my goby made the pic on the home page!
            > did anyone get to check out the other ones i put in
            > my
            > folder?
            > paul
            >
            >
            >
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8351 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: Cory cat babies
            Take and vaccum 1/2 your tank.  This gives the little ones someplace to go, to get away from the vaccum.
            Also vaccum your water into a bucket this will allow you to empty the water out slowly and watch for babies. 
            C.Aeneus are pretty common and easy fish to breed. Your C. melanistrius is not as common but it also isn't that hard to spawn. The major problem with C. melanistrius that I have noticed is that they eat there eggs more then normal. Eaither way Congrads on your hatching..
            As far as eating presoaked flake will be find for them at this stage. If they are 2 months old, they are big enough to eat regular foods.
            Daphnia, Tubifex or bloodworms  could be used as snacks.  The mollies would love them also :-)

            rob
            NE Indiana
            USA



            In a message dated 2/7/2005 1:00:44 AM US Eastern Standard Time, aranel@... writes:


            Now to my problem. Since I can't seen them very well I haven't been able
            to vacuum the gravel. I'm afraid of sucking one of them up. Also, will
            they just eat the food that falls to the bottom of the tank, or should I
            try to buy something special for them? How long will it take them to
            mature? I *think* they're corydoras aeneus ( have both bronze and
            albinos) but they look a little bit like my corydoras melanistius (black
            sail).
















            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8352 From: Aranel Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: Cory cat babies

            Take and vaccum 1/2 your tank.  This gives the little ones someplace to go, to get away from the vaccum.
            Also vaccum your water into a bucket this will allow you to empty the water out slowly and watch for babies. 
            Ok, that seems pretty easy. I usually only vacuum one side of the tank anyway, so make sure I don't disturb things too much.
            C.Aeneus are pretty common and easy fish to breed. Your C. melanistrius is not as common but it also isn't that hard to spawn. The major problem with C. melanistrius that I have noticed is that they eat there eggs more then normal. Eaither way Congrads on your hatching..
            Thanks! I'm pretty sure they're the broze corys. I'd love for them to be black sails though, because I used to have three and one died, and since that happened the two surviving ones don't come out much. I've been planning on getting some more, but it's over an hour away to Petsmart, which is the only place that sells them around here.
            As far as eating presoaked flake will be find for them at this stage. If they are 2 months old, they are big enough to eat regular foods.
            Daphnia, Tubifex or bloodworms  could be used as snacks.  The mollies would love them also :-)

            Oh yeah, that's stuff I feed to the mollies anyway! You're right, they do love them. :) Thanks for the info!

            -Aranel
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8353 From: Aranel Date: 2/6/2005
            Subject: Re: Cory cat babies
            paul helms wrote:

            > they grow fairly quickly, but no you do not have to
            > target feed them.. you can but sinking pellets
            > occasionally. my albinos have hatched twice now

            Oh ok. Thanks!

            -Aranel
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8354 From: paul helms Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Cory cat babies
            you can always add a piece of an old net to the end of
            your siphon tube to make sure you do not suck up
            anyone....also keep gravel from getting sucked up and
            clogging the tube
            --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:

            > Take and vaccum 1/2 your tank. This gives the
            > little ones someplace to go,
            > to get away from the vaccum.
            > Also vaccum your water into a bucket this will allow
            > you to empty the water
            > out slowly and watch for babies.
            > C.Aeneus are pretty common and easy fish to breed.
            > Your C. melanistrius is
            > not as common but it also isn't that hard to spawn.
            > The major problem with C.
            > melanistrius that I have noticed is that they eat
            > there eggs more then normal.
            > Eaither way Congrads on your hatching..
            > As far as eating presoaked flake will be find for
            > them at this stage. If they
            > are 2 months old, they are big enough to eat regular
            > foods. > Daphnia,
            > > Tubifex or bloodworms could be used as snacks.
            > The mollies would love them also
            > > :-)
            > >
            > > rob
            > > NE Indiana
            > > USA
            >
            >
            >
            > In a message dated 2/7/2005 1:00:44 AM US Eastern
            > Standard Time,
            > aranel@... writes:
            >
            >
            > > Now to my problem. Since I can't seen them very
            > well I haven't been able
            > > to vacuum the gravel. I'm afraid of sucking one of
            > them up. Also, will
            > > they just eat the food that falls to the bottom of
            > the tank, or should I
            > > try to buy something special for them? How long
            > will it take them to
            > > mature? I *think* they're corydoras aeneus ( have
            > both bronze and
            > > albinos) but they look a little bit like my
            > corydoras melanistius (black
            > > sail).
            >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8355 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Cory cat babies
               Be sure to distinguish between vacuum (as in "MOTORIZED VACUUM", and "SIPHONING") and siphon.as the impeller in a motorized aquarium cleaner can chew-up a fish. Also. When I had Corys', occassionally I would find babies/baby in filters. (That's why I reamed holes in Aquarium sponges and slipped them over filter intakes. You can, or may be able to find flat-thin sponge material (for aquarium use) and use aquarium safe Silicone sealant to glue the right shape into a tube with a seal on one end, and slip that over the intake.
                       
                                                      Joe Pascavage
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            paul helms wrote:

            > they grow fairly quickly, but no you do not have to
            > target feed them.. you can but sinking pellets
            > occasionally.  my albinos have hatched twice now

            Oh ok. Thanks!

            -Aranel


            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8356 From: Elyse Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
            WOW Anne good for you. Lets just hope that age and such has not compromised
            the sealant. It would be a shame for such a good bargain and all that work
            to go to waste.

            Good luck with it!


            Thanks!
            Elyse
            elyse@...
            AIM: ElyseRachel

            Canine Castaway's Inc.
            www.CanineCastaways.org
            www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
            The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
            The Tropical Fish Connection:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Anne [mailto:md_gustoby@...]
            Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 9:30 PM
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] cleaning an old aquarium


            "Great. So keep the hood and light and get a new,
            clean tank."

            Nope, gonna keep them both. We cleaned up the tank
            today, a little water and bleach cleaned it up great.
            The hood is in good condition, lights work (needed new
            blubs) and finally got into the bag the guy handed me
            with the aquarium. It contained two heaters, one I
            trashed, the second is still in it's box with
            instructions, and a whisper power pump, that works
            like a charm. Not bad for a couple of bucks.
            Anne







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            Yahoo! Groups Links
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8357 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: pics
            Just realized, after reading Dorothy's post, that I made a bit of an
            error when stating which of Paul's shots I liked. I meant to say
            that the Night Watchman (Goby) has to be the most colorful. Easy to
            see I'm not a marine fish hobbyist, plus I guess I should refrain
            from trying to post after mid-night. Anyway, nice shots! Ray
            \
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Wetzel" <sevenspringss@w...>
            wrote:
            >
            > All three are good shots, but the Lawn Mower has to be the most
            > colorful, with his bright yellow. Nice photography,
            Ray
            >
            \
            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...>
            wrote:
            > > i see my goby made the pic on the home page!
            > > did anyone get to check out the other ones i put in my
            > > folder?
            > > paul
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > __________________________________
            > > Do you Yahoo!?
            > > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
            > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8358 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Plant Care
            Quick question,

            in my tank I currently have some amazon sword plants and dwarf short hair grass. Although the hair grass is doing fine, the sword plants are slowly dying after a week or so in the water. I am currently using a single flourescent tube light for lighting with natural light from the windows. There is no other nutrition in the tank save the fish and unused flakes. What else do I need or what do I need to change in the tank to preserve and faciliate the growth of these plants? I have several other plants arriving in the next week and want to be better prepared when I plant them.

            thanks

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8359 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Nitrite Update
             
            My nitrites are still up around .5, so I changed out 4 out of 20 gallons and went to the pet store and got a handful of plants - she gave them to me, since she didn't have many.  There are about 10 stalks of the plant all together.  I'll check back later in the week to get some more.  Anyway, I'm still running the nitra zorb pillow, recharging after every 5 days or so.  What do you guys think - will this too pass? 
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8360 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
            Angela, Your changing 4 of the 20 gallons of course helped, but
            that's only a 20% water change; i.e., you are reducing the nitrites
            by 20%, or dropping it from .5 to .4. Plants cannot use nitrites as
            food, they have to wait until the nitrites are converted to nitrates
            and then they will use that. Still a good idea to put in live
            plants, but you could change another 4 gallons of water (this will
            get the nitrites down to .32 (note, not .3 unless you had changed the
            8 gallons all at once. Unless you're getting nearer the end of the
            cycle, you can expect high nitrite readings for now. You may want to
            do 1/3 water changes every other day (or 20% every day) for a while
            as the cycle progresses and see how it tests in a week or so. Ray
            \
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
            >
            > My nitrites are still up around .5, so I changed out 4 out of 20
            gallons and went to the pet store and got a handful of plants - she
            gave them to me, since she didn't have many. There are about 10
            stalks of the plant all together. I'll check back later in the week
            to get some more. Anyway, I'm still running the nitra zorb pillow,
            recharging after every 5 days or so. What do you guys think - will
            this too pass?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8361 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
            Thanks.  I changed out another 4 gallons and I'll then start changing every other day.
             
            Angela
             
            -------------- Original message --------------

            Angela,  Your changing 4 of the 20 gallons of course helped, but
            that's only a 20% water change; i.e., you are reducing the nitrites
            by 20%, or dropping it from .5 to .4.  Plants cannot use nitrites as
            food, they have to wait until the nitrites are converted to nitrates
            and then they will use that.  Still a good idea to put in live
            plants, but you could change another 4 gallons of water (this will
            get the nitrites down to .32 (note, not .3 unless you had changed the
            8 gallons all at once.  Unless you're getting nearer the end of the
            cycle, you can expect high nitrite readings for now.  You may want to
            do 1/3 water changes every other day (or 20% every day) for a while
            as the cycle progresses and see how it tests in a week or so.  Ray  
            \                                                                    
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
            >
            > My nitrites are still up around .5, so I changed out 4 out of 20
            gallons and went to the pet store and got a handful of plants - she
            gave them to me, since she didn't have many.  There are about 10
            stalks of the plant all together.  I'll check back later in the week
            to get some more.  Anyway, I'm still running the nitra zorb pillow,
            recharging after every 5 days or so.  What do you guys think - will
            this too pass?





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8362 From: CRAIG DAVISON Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care
            Ithink you need to use 2 flourscent tubes with lighting kept on for
            about 10 - 12 hours per day and i would use awell known brand of
            plant food.
            craig 

            Iksnip@... wrote:
            Quick question,

            in my tank I currently have some amazon sword plants and dwarf short hair grass.  Although the hair grass is doing fine, the sword plants are slowly dying after a week or so in the water.  I am currently using a single flourescent tube light for lighting with natural light from the windows.  There is no other nutrition in the tank save the fish and unused flakes.  What else do I need or what do I need to change in the tank to preserve and faciliate the growth of these plants?  I have several other plants arriving in the next week and want to be better prepared when I plant them.

            thanks

            Ken


            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            EASY DOES IT,
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8363 From: paul helms Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
            the first thing yo9u need to do is to find out why you
            have detectable nitrites?? if you have them you have
            ammonia coming in from somewhere... are you
            cycling?.......
            --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

            >
            > My nitrites are still up around .5, so I changed out
            > 4 out of 20 gallons and went to the pet store and
            > got a handful of plants - she gave them to me, since
            > she didn't have many. There are about 10 stalks of
            > the plant all together. I'll check back later in
            > the week to get some more. Anyway, I'm still
            > running the nitra zorb pillow, recharging after
            > every 5 days or so. What do you guys think - will
            > this too pass?




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8364 From: paul helms Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care
            first of all, there should eb NO "unused
            flakes".....all the extra food does is rot and cause
            ammonia ...nitirite, and eventually nitrate. you
            should not feed more than your fish will consume in a
            few minutes...no excess after 5 minutes if feeding
            once a day....if feeding twice, no excess after 2-3.
            don't feed more than twice a day. the plants you
            mentioned need at least 2 watts per gallon of light.
            you will definately have to upgrade lights from
            original.
            --- Iksnip@... wrote:

            > Quick question,
            >
            > in my tank I currently have some amazon sword plants
            > and dwarf short hair grass. Although the hair grass
            > is doing fine, the sword plants are slowly dying
            > after a week or so in the water. I am currently
            > using a single flourescent tube light for lighting
            > with natural light from the windows. There is no
            > other nutrition in the tank save the fish and unused
            > flakes. What else do I need or what do I need to
            > change in the tank to preserve and faciliate the
            > growth of these plants? I have several other plants
            > arriving in the next week and want to be better
            > prepared when I plant them.
            >
            > thanks
            >
            > Ken
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8365 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care
            will the plant food contaminate the tank? Would the fish be at risk if they ate the food? In there I currently have

            4 black mollies
            5 neon tetra
            1 albino cory
            1 black knife fish

            thanks

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8366 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
            I am evidently still cycling (I thought it would be over by now, but it's been going on approx. 5 weeks).  I have never, ever had any ammonia to speak of.  At one test, I had a little, changed water (4 out of 20 gallons) and it was fine.  Since then, there's not been any.  There are currently 2 zebra danios and a frog who are being fed very sparingly.  The other fish have all died.  We did have an ick episode and I used the quick cure.  Those fish died from the nitrite issues, though.
             
            Anyway, is there any hope?  I really want to stick it out, but I'm getting very frustrated.
             
            Thanks for your help,
            Angela
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            the first thing yo9u need to do is to find out why you
            have detectable nitrites?? if you have them you have
            ammonia coming in from somewhere... are you
            cycling?.......
            --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

            >
            > My nitrites are still up around .5, so I changed out
            > 4 out of 20 gallons and went to the pet store and
            > got a handful of plants - she gave them to me, since
            > she didn't have many.  There are about 10 stalks of
            > the plant all together.  I'll check back later in
            > the week to get some more.  Anyway, I'm still
            > running the nitra zorb pillow, recharging after
            > every 5 days or so.  What do you guys think - will
            > this too pass? 



                       
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            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8367 From: Colleen Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: baby
            I have a baby still its doing just fine getting big but still a baby should i put it over to the other tank with filteration and with the bleeding heart and two neons or keep it where it is .I am afraid to do anything to the tank in fear of losing it .
            Colleen..........
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8368 From: CRAIG DAVISON Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care
            If you go to your lopcal aquarist dealer you can buy plant food made just for aquariums.
            Your dealer will advise you on 2"how much and how often";
            craig

            Iksnip@... wrote:
            Quick question,

            in my tank I currently have some amazon sword plants and dwarf short hair grass.  Although the hair grass is doing fine, the sword plants are slowly dying after a week or so in the water.  I am currently using a single flourescent tube light for lighting with natural light from the windows.  There is no other nutrition in the tank save the fish and unused flakes.  What else do I need or what do I need to change in the tank to preserve and faciliate the growth of these plants?  I have several other plants arriving in the next week and want to be better prepared when I plant them.

            thanks

            Ken


            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8369 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care
            sounds good Craig, thanks for the advice. I, most assuredly, will use it!

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8370 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care
            okay so I need 150 watt lights, I assume the LFS will have that. I agree about the feeding. My normal flake feeding is appropriate and there is never left over flakes that I see. I am more concerned about the fish eating the plant food

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8371 From: Amalthea Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care
            you can also get a simple co2 system going. they're super easy if you
            use the yeast method. you can find info here:
            http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/co2-narten.html
            http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9916&highlight=jello
            i've been using the jello method and an iron supplement for a couple of
            weeks now and my plants seem extremely happy.
            amalthea
            Get em' while they're cheap!
            Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the
            Basement....
            http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
            On Feb 7, 2005, at 12:44 PM, CRAIG DAVISON wrote:

            > If you go to your lopcal aquarist dealer you can buy plant food made
            > just for aquariums.
            > Your dealer will advise you on 2"how much and how often";
            > craig
            >
            > Iksnip@... wrote:
            > Quick question,
            >
            > in my tank I currently have some amazon sword plants and dwarf short
            > hair grass.  Although the hair grass is doing fine, the sword plants
            > are slowly dying after a week or so in the water.  I am currently
            > using a single flourescent tube light for lighting with natural light
            > from the windows.  There is no other nutrition in the tank save the
            > fish and unused flakes.  What else do I need or what do I need to
            > change in the tank to preserve and faciliate the growth of these
            > plants?  I have several other plants arriving in the next week and
            > want to be better prepared when I plant them.
            >
            > thanks
            >
            > Ken
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > EASY DOES IT,
            > ONE DAY AT A TIME.
            >
            > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            >  
            > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >  
            > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > Service.
            >
            >
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8372 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care( tankmates)
            ken on a side note:

            your fish list could be a problem in the future.

            Your Knife fish is a predetor and uses electric shock to stun his prey.
            The tankmates you listed are all realitively small and could easily become prey to your knife.

            The albino cory has spines that it will push forward to ward off being eaten. If your knife tries to swallow the cory it is highly likely both your fish will end up dead, the knife with a cory stuck in its mouth.
            I'm not saying it will become a problem just trying to bring it up incase you start seeing problems in the future..
            rob
            NE Indiana
            USA



            In a message dated 2/7/2005 12:40:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Iksnip@... writes:


            4 black mollies
            5 neon tetra
            1 albino cory
            1 black knife fish

            thanks

            Ken


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8373 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care( tankmates)
            wow, thanks so much for the information. When I bought the fish the store owner assured me that this fish list would not be a problem in a 75 g tank. Given the fact however that he failed to mention the predatory nature of the fish I am a little concnered. I admittedly bought the fish on a whim due its beauty with little knowledge but I now question this mans knowledge base if he failed to inform me when asked. I will monitor this closely...thanks for the advice.

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8374 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care( tankmates)
            Ken,
            here are a few links to give basic info on knife fish..

            http://www.gnsaquarium.com.au/html/bgk.html
            http://www.thefishworld.co.uk/id124.htm

            as of 1/2005 there has been a reported spawning of these fish in the home aquaria.
            *see 1st link*



            In a message dated 2/7/2005 2:08:42 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Iksnip@... writes:




            wow, thanks so much for the information.  When I bought the fish the store owner assured me that this fish list would not be a problem in a 75 g tank.  Given the fact however that he failed to mention the predatory nature of the fish I am a little concnered.  I admittedly bought the fish on a whim due its beauty with little knowledge but I now question this mans knowledge base if he failed to inform me when asked.  I will monitor this closely...thanks for the advice.

            Ken


            BGK
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8375 From: pickles Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care
            Hi Ken,
            All of the fish you listed are good for a community tank Except for the Knife fish... it will get quit large and will eat all of its smaller tank mates...I would remove it and put it another tank..they tend to hunt at night too. so some morning you might discover several of your fish have come up missing...better it remove him ASAP...jmo....
            As for the plant food, they say its safe for the fish..I have never used it so can't say for sure...I did however use some algae remover tablets that were supposed to be safe for the fish, but one of my big Plecos ate a wafer of it and died 2 days later...coincidence? I am not so sure! ....Mary
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Iksnip@...
            Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 9:25 AM
            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plant Care

            will the plant food contaminate the tank?  Would the fish be at risk if they ate the food?  In there I currently have

            4 black mollies
            5 neon tetra
            1 albino cory
            1 black knife fish

            thanks

            Ken


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8376 From: Amalthea Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care
            i've been using plant food safely for years. never had a single
            problem. get the liquid supplements, they seem to work the best.
            amalthea
            Get em' while they're cheap!
            Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the
            Basement....
            http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
            On Feb 7, 2005, at 3:41 PM, pickles wrote:

            > Hi Ken,
            > All of the fish you listed are good for a community tank Except for
            > the Knife fish... it will get quit large and will eat all of its
            > smaller tank mates...I would remove it and put it another tank..they
            > tend to hunt at night too. so some morning you might discover several
            > of your fish have come up missing...better it remove him
            > ASAP...jmo....
            > As for the plant food, they say its safe for the fish..I have never
            > used it so can't say for sure...I did however use some algae remover
            > tablets that were supposed to be safe for the fish, but one of my big
            > Plecos ate a wafer of it and died 2 days later...coincidence? I am not
            > so sure! ....Mary
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8377 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care( tankmates)

            A Slight correction. Black ghost knife does not stun prey with electricity. It does have a bit of electromagnetism capability but is usually used as sonar or find its way or detect food just like its close relatives the mormyrids (Peters elephant nose etc.). It is not predatory by nature but is also not a community fish. For that matter any fish is predatory that can fit a small fish in its mouth… even a goldfish. But yes, Black ghost knife does get very big, not a problem with Mollys and corys, but neon tetras could be considered food when the knife reaches around 9”+.

             

            Why it is not a community fish is because it is too timid and delicate and cannot really fend for itself and cannot compete for food with aggressive and fast feeders like tetras, mollys, barbs, gouramis, cichlids etc. Moreover, it prefers a dark tank as compared to most community fish that prefer a well lit tank.

             

            Knife fish other then the black ghost knife are specialist predators and I know a 5” Clown knife is capable of eating a 2”+ fish easily… though not a black ghost knife as it is not a specialist predator.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: FortWayneFish@... [mailto:FortWayneFish@...]
            Sent: 07 February 2005 18:37
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plant Care( tankmates)

             

            ken on a side note:

            your fish list could be a problem in the future.

            Your Knife fish is a predetor and uses electric shock to stun his prey.
            The tankmates you listed are all realitively small and could easily become prey to your knife.

            The albino cory has spines that it will push forward to ward off being eaten. If your knife tries to swallow the cory it is highly likely both your fish will end up dead, the knife with a cory stuck in its mouth.
            I'm not saying it will become a problem just trying to bring it up incase you start seeing problems in the future..
            rob
            NE Indiana
            USA



            In a message dated 2/7/2005 12:40:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Iksnip@... writes:



            4 black mollies
            5 neon tetra
            1 albino cory
            1 black knife fish

            thanks

            Ken





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8378 From: pickles Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care( tankmates)
            Maybe I got it confused with the Clown knife ??But I could have sworn I had some black knives there aggressive...I know  the Clown knives are and they can get huge...I would say 9" is rather large, as you said the black knife could get...??
            LOL....I had an elephant nose that would dash out from behind a rock and ram another fish with his snout then dash back behind the rock and the poor rammed fish just sat there stunned had no idea what had just happened !  But never had one die from it that I rember,,,He was a character.. he loved to ram things... I had one of those diving animated dogs  with the helmet on? that would go up and down attached to an air line...anyway every time it got close to dinner time that elephant nose.( we called him Dumbo...I know "How Orignal"! )  he would dash up and hit it  that diving dog every several times a minute until you fed him...funny little guy!
             
            OK, I did a search on  Black Ghost Knife heres one good discrpiton of him at : http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile66.html
             
            This says they get up to 20 " and some of the discussion says they can be aggressive if thier territory is invaded...and they should be kept with other non agressives like angels...discis and gourami..I guess thats a matter of what one would consider peaceful as I have known some angles that were anything but....and yet others that were very peaceful and could be kept with guppies...and certain gouramis can be very agressive too
            But I  still wouldn't keep them with mollies and neons.... when they are bigger I am sure they would like to snack! ...Mary
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 12:49 PM
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Plant Care( tankmates)

            A Slight correction. Black ghost knife does not stun prey with electricity. It does have a bit of electromagnetism capability but is usually used as sonar or find its way or detect food just like its close relatives the mormyrids (Peters elephant nose etc.). It is not predatory by nature but is also not a community fish. For that matter any fish is predatory that can fit a small fish in its mouth… even a goldfish. But yes, Black ghost knife does get very big, not a problem with Mollys and corys, but neon tetras could be considered food when the knife reaches around 9”+.

             

            Why it is not a community fish is because it is too timid and delicate and cannot really fend for itself and cannot compete for food with aggressive and fast feeders like tetras, mollys, barbs, gouramis, cichlids etc. Moreover, it prefers a dark tank as compared to most community fish that prefer a well lit tank.

             

            Knife fish other then the black ghost knife are specialist predators and I know a 5” Clown knife is capable of eating a 2”+ fish easily… though not a black ghost knife as it is not a specialist predator.

             

            Nim

             

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8379 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care( tankmates)
            thanks Nim,

            that actually does make me feel a little better about my selection. Although it definetly does not sound like the purcahse was ideal for the current tank I have, it may be that it will all work out in the end. I am going to consider a second tank however and re-locating the black ghost knife into a new setting

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8380 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care
            Ken, do you not have a substrate for your plants? Not all plants
            will be content to grow with just gravel around their roots. If you
            didn't put a substrate in with your plants, try mixing some laterite,
            sand, peat moss, and maybe some vermiculite with water till doughy,
            wrap it around your plant roots (out of the tank) and wrap it in a
            coffee filter or unbleached muslin. Maybe put a plant tab in the mix
            if you want. Then sink the whole affair, and bury the root ball with
            your gravel. That should give the roots a good start.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8381 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
            Angela, Glad to hear you changed another 4 gallons. Now, with high
            nitrites, I guess I just assumed you were in the process of cycling
            your tank (which, it turns out you are). Although you did mention
            Saturday that you have been using Nitra-Zorb Pillows for two weeks,
            you haven't said 'till now that you are 5 weeks into cycling.
            Nitrites generally spike between the second and third week and then
            start tapering off. Therefor, I again assumed your cycling was in
            that time frame -- between 2 & 3 weeks. I did notice your saying
            that you never had ammonia. You had to have ammonia, which normally
            spikes between 7 and 10 days. Ammonia is a waste product of your
            fish, and they had to produce it as a process of living. If you had
            no ammonia, you would have no nitrites. Nitrites are the direct by-
            products of ammonia as it is broken down by those certain
            Nitrobacters (nitrifying bacteria) which convert ammonia into
            nitrite. I think Paul may have something there about your having a
            source of ammonia buildup (like perhaps you are overfeeding), and/or
            its very possible that the medication you used to kill the Ich also
            killed off the Nitrobacters, in which case your cycling period is
            going to be extended until such time as a sufficient colony of these
            bacteria get established enough to control the nitrites. I hope you
            no longer have this medicine in the water, if so put fresh carbon in
            the filter and keep changing water to get rid of it. A higher
            temperature (78o - 80o) will speed things up a little. To shorten
            your present cycling period, if that's what you want, I would
            discontinue the Nitra-Zorb Pillow. There's the chance that the two
            Zebras may die from excess nitrites, but they should not have been in
            there yet in the first place. The higher the nitrites are, the
            faster the other bacteria (which convert nitrite into nitrate) will
            get established. If you want to play it safe for the remaining fish,
            keep the nitrites lower for now and stretch it out. You will get a
            proper balance of Nitrobacters after a while, provided you feed
            normally and do proper maintenance. Ray
            \
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
            >
            > My nitrites are still up around .5, so I changed out 4 out of 20
            gallons and went to the pet store and got a handful of plants - she
            gave them to me, since she didn't have many. There are about 10
            stalks of the plant all together. I'll check back later in the week
            to get some more. Anyway, I'm still running the nitra zorb pillow,
            recharging after every 5 days or so. What do you guys think - will
            this too pass?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8382 From: lesakalez Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Kissing Gourami not very flirty./ Temp.
            He keeps the tank about 72 deg. The one gourami that sat at the
            bottome recently died : ( I think we'll experiment with this fish
            when we're a little more experienced. Any suggestions for fish that
            would go well with Panther catfish and goldfish? (the goldfish were
            bought to test the tank conditions and they've proven to be a hearty
            bunch! and we've become attached so we can't just get rid of
            them : ) )

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry
            <harryfisherman@y...> wrote:
            > Maybe it doesn't like it's "counterpart". Anyhow gouramis are
            tropical fish and goldfish are not. What is the temp. of this tank?.
            >
            > lesakalez <lesakalez@y...> wrote:
            >
            > My boyfriend recently bought two kissing gouramis and we are both
            a
            > little curious about the normal beharvior of these fish. One
            seems
            > to be very fiesty during feeding times. It nips at the gold fish
            in
            > the tank and leaves the catfish alone. The other gourami just
            hangs
            > out in the corner at the bottom of the tank. It comes to the top
            > and eats, but then just hangs out and never wants to make out with
            > its counterpart. Please help!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8383 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care
            Ken, Unless I missed it somewhere, I don't see where you mention
            what size tank you have (a heighth measurement would also help.
            Without knowing what size tank, I couldn't say if you need 150 Watts
            of lighting, 75 Watts of lighting or . . . (?). Amazon Sword plants,
            depending upon species, like medium lighting in general; this means
            not too strong either. Your natural window lighting will also help a
            lot. Here it would be nice to know what direction the window faces
            (eastern exposure? southern exposure?). Too much light will invite
            an algae problem. Most any plants do best in an established tank
            with some nutrients (fish waste) in the gravel. Barring that, I've
            found that breaking Plantabs into 3rds and pushing the pieces down
            between the roots will help Amazon Swords immensely, and will not
            harm the fish. I have found that Swords do better in slightly soft,
            slightly acidic water. For a 20 gallon tank for instance, 60 - 80
            Watts for 6 to 8 hours (with an eastern exposure window) should be
            enough, depending upon how much sun you're getting. You don't say
            what plants you are expecting next week. Ray
            \
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Iksnip@a... wrote:
            > Quick question,
            >
            > in my tank I currently have some amazon sword plants and dwarf
            short hair grass. Although the hair grass is doing fine, the sword
            plants are slowly dying after a week or so in the water. I am
            currently using a single flourescent tube light for lighting with
            natural light from the windows. There is no other nutrition in the
            tank save the fish and unused flakes. What else do I need or what do
            I need to change in the tank to preserve and faciliate the growth of
            these plants? I have several other plants arriving in the next week
            and want to be better prepared when I plant them.
            >
            > thanks
            >
            > Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8384 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: obese looking oranda
            I looked at the photos and maybe it is normal looking. The other one
            just looks so trim next to it. I've been watching it and it sometimes
            is defiantly leaning a touch to one side but not always. I'll try to
            take a picture.

            Thanks for everyones feedback!

            At 11:43 AM 2/5/2005, you wrote:
            I've kept Goldfish, and a few that were radically, artificially
            mutated, and seem top remember that extreme genetic manipulation
            resulted in swim-bladder problems. I don't know what the lump is, but
            the list and lump could be related to inherited problems.
            Joe Pascavage



            One of my Oranda's is getting rounder and rounder. Sometimes now when I
            look at it straight on it looks like it's leaning a little towards one
            side.
            Is that normal? Really it looks like it swallowed a golf ball. It's
            still
            active and swims around, noses around in the gravel etc, it just looks
            funny. I only have 2 and the other one looks fine.

            Terri


            Terri Bryant
            www.RainbowSnails.com
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8385 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: obese looking oranda
               Please don't consider the fish as "DEFIANT"! That implies the fish is making an effort to disturb you by spiteful behaviour and indicates an errant, unstable attitude, that could result in inappropriate action on your part, when you should be experiencing understanding, concern and compassion.
                                                       Joe Pascavage
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            I looked at the photos and maybe it is normal looking.  The other one
            just looks so trim next to it.  I've been watching it and it sometimes
            is defiantly leaning a touch to one side but not always.  I'll try to
            take a picture.

            Thanks for everyones feedback!

            At 11:43 AM 2/5/2005, you wrote:
               I've kept Goldfish, and a few that were radically, artificially
            mutated, and seem top remember that extreme genetic manipulation
            resulted in swim-bladder problems. I don't know what the lump is, but
            the list and lump could be related to inherited problems.
                                                          Joe Pascavage



            One of my Oranda's is getting rounder and rounder.  Sometimes now when I
            look at it straight on it looks like it's leaning a little towards one
            side.
            Is that normal?  Really it looks like it swallowed a golf ball.  It's
            still
            active and swims around, noses around in the gravel etc, it just looks
            funny. I only have 2 and the other one looks fine.

            Terri


            Terri Bryant
            www.RainbowSnails.com




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8386 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
            Hello,
            we had a bad wreck a mile out of town. A car driven by a 19 year old
            hit a greyhound bus killing him and sending the bus sliding off the
            highway taking out some powerline poles. Our power was out for over 4
            hours so the filters where pretty dry does this mean I'm gonna have to
            recycle my tanks I assume most of the bacteria is now dead.... Please
            help.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8387 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
            I don't think that's going to be a problem.  We had a similar thing last year.  Had just got my tank stable for about a month - water all set.  Went that morning and bought two BEAUTIFUL Angel fish - a mated pair.  At noon - power dies - I had just released them into the tank!   Was out for about 8 hours.   Just made sure I primed the pump for the filter - never had any problem.  Think it takes longer for bacteria to die.....
             
            Al
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8388 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
            If The filters are dry then yes the bacteria is gone. Do you have any gravel in these tanks? They might retain some bacteria to speed the process up. Any sponge filters in any of your tanks, or in-tank filters?

            You may have to go buy some live bacteria in a bottle. I believe there are a couple brands, although I cannot recall them at the moment.

            I know it is too late now, but maybe get an Uninterrupted power supply like are used for computers. I used to have one setup, but I don't have it setup anymore, maybe I should now.

            Mike
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8389 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
            I can't imagine the water disappears from around your filters the moment the power disappears? I would immerse your filter medium/a into the tank, install fresh filter media, and take chemical readings 'till you're satisfied. (assuming you know how long to take chem readings)
                                                         Joe Pascavage
             
            -------------- Original message --------------

            Hello,
            we had a bad wreck a mile out of town. A car driven by a 19 year old
            hit a greyhound bus killing him and sending the bus sliding off the
            highway taking out some powerline poles. Our power was out for over 4
            hours so the filters where pretty dry does this mean I'm gonna have to
            recycle my tanks I assume most of the bacteria is now dead.... Please
            help.





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8390 From: paul helms Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
            after only four hours, the filter pads should still be
            moist, which means the bacteria will be alive
            --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

            >
            > Hello,
            > we had a bad wreck a mile out of town. A car driven
            > by a 19 year old
            > hit a greyhound bus killing him and sending the bus
            > sliding off the
            > highway taking out some powerline poles. Our power
            > was out for over 4
            > hours so the filters where pretty dry does this mean
            > I'm gonna have to
            > recycle my tanks I assume most of the bacteria is
            > now dead.... Please
            > help.
            >
            >
            >
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8391 From: paul helms Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
            you can't have nitrites without ammonia. read up on
            the nitrogen cycle....ammonia to nitrite to nitrate.
            this is why i recommend a fishless cycle ...once your
            tank has gone wrong in the cycle, and you start
            medicating and changing water, it is an uphill battle
            that takes much longer than the original 4-6 weeks.
            that is 4-6 weeks with no outside changes. a couple
            fish will not be a detriment, but cycle with 1/4
            capacity and up just does not work well.
            --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

            > I am evidently still cycling (I thought it would be
            > over by now, but it's been going on approx. 5
            > weeks). I have never, ever had any ammonia to speak
            > of. At one test, I had a little, changed water (4
            > out of 20 gallons) and it was fine. Since then,
            > there's not been any. There are currently 2 zebra
            > danios and a frog who are being fed very sparingly.
            > The other fish have all died. We did have an ick
            > episode and I used the quick cure. Those fish died
            > from the nitrite issues, though.
            >
            > Anyway, is there any hope? I really want to stick
            > it out, but I'm getting very frustrated.
            >
            > Thanks for your help,
            > Angela
            >
            > -------------- Original message --------------
            > the first thing yo9u need to do is to find out why
            > you
            > have detectable nitrites?? if you have them you have
            > ammonia coming in from somewhere... are you
            > cycling?.......
            > --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > My nitrites are still up around .5, so I changed
            > out
            > > 4 out of 20 gallons and went to the pet store and
            > > got a handful of plants - she gave them to me,
            > since
            > > she didn't have many. There are about 10 stalks
            > of
            > > the plant all together. I'll check back later in
            > > the week to get some more. Anyway, I'm still
            > > running the nitra zorb pillow, recharging after
            > > every 5 days or so. What do you guys think - will
            > > this too pass?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________
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            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when
            > replying, thanks
            >
            >
            >
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            >
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            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8392 From: paul helms Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care
            is that a black ghost...because they are not at all
            agressive....most knives are
            --- Iksnip@... wrote:

            > will the plant food contaminate the tank? Would the
            > fish be at risk if they ate the food? In there I
            > currently have
            >
            > 4 black mollies
            > 5 neon tetra
            > 1 albino cory
            > 1 black knife fish
            >
            > thanks
            >
            > Ken
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8393 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
            I know its to late now but as long as the Pads/filters are still wet they should still be alive.
            If the power ever goes out again, remove your pads/sponges what ever you use for median and just place them into the tank. There will not be any waterflow but at least they will stay wet, and alive.
            We loose electricy a lot during the summer months here because of thunderstorms... One reason I have placed sponge filters in all my tanks. If all else fails you have some kind of filteration.

            If I ever win the lottery, I'll invest in a backup electrical source. :-) but until then I'll stick with my sponge filter back ups.

            rob
            NE Indiana
            USA

            In a message dated 2/8/2005 12:33:11 AM US Eastern Standard Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:


            Our power
            > was out for over 4
            > hours so the filters where pretty dry does this mean
            > I'm gonna have to
            > recycle my tanks I assume most of the bacteria is
            > now dead.... Please
            > help.
            >


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8394 From: Patrick N. Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
                I agree, but sometimes ammonia tests are not accurate enough to detect them unless they go high.  Maybe that is the problem here?
             
            Patrick, the American Fish Guy
             
            Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
            About my tanks:  
            29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
            -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
            -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
            -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
            10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
            -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
            -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
            -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
            -------Original Message-------
            you can't have nitrites without ammonia.  read up on
            the nitrogen cycle....ammonia to nitrite to nitrate.
            this is why i recommend a fishless cycle ...once your
            tank has gone wrong in the cycle, and you start
            medicating and changing water, it is an uphill battle
            that takes much longer than the original 4-6 weeks.
            that is 4-6 weeks with no outside changes.  a couple
            fish will not be a detriment, but cycle with 1/4
            capacity and up just does not work well.
            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8395 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care

            Gravel is usually enough for a low tech tank as long as it is 6 months old and holds some dirt to be able to feed the plants. Latarite and vermiculite are for specialist substrates and for people who know what they are doing, I do not recommend latarite to any plant starter. First, try some hardy plants in gravel and then later think about upgrading the substrate. Flourite & eco complete however are a good starter substrate for new comers as well but are expensive.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: cynthia brennemann [mailto:brennewoman@...]
            Sent: 07 February 2005 23:28
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plant Care

             


            Ken, do you not have a substrate for your plants?  Not all plants
            will be content to grow with just gravel around their roots.  If you
            didn't put a substrate in with your plants, try mixing some laterite,
            sand, peat moss, and maybe some vermiculite with water till doughy,
            wrap it around your plant roots (out of the tank) and wrap it in a
            coffee filter or unbleached muslin.  Maybe put a plant tab in the mix
            if you want.  Then sink the whole affair, and bury the root ball with
            your gravel.  That should give the roots a good start.





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8396 From: photo_muse Date: 2/7/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care( tankmates)
            Hi Ken!

            << 1 albino cory >>

            Having recently acquired some cory catfish and done a lot of
            research, I just thought I'd mention that cory cats are
            schooling/social fish. Most sources I have found recommend six or
            more cories per tank (one source said a min of 10!). Now that I have
            nine (in a 55 gallon tank), they are much more evident in the tank,
            foraging around in groups, rather than hiding. Well worth the extra
            $$ to make 'em happy!

            Peggy :)
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8397 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care( tankmates)

            Very true. I missed that point.:) I recommend a min group of 3 to start with if you don’t have enough space but more the merrier for them.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: photo_muse [mailto:photo_muse@...]
            Sent: 08 February 2005 07:20
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plant Care( tankmates)

             


            Hi Ken!

            << 1 albino cory >>

            Having recently acquired some cory catfish and done a lot of
            research, I just thought I'd mention that cory cats are
            schooling/social fish.  Most sources I have found recommend six or
            more cories per tank (one source said a min of 10!).  Now that I have
            nine (in a 55 gallon tank), they are much more evident in the tank,
            foraging around in groups, rather than hiding.  Well worth the extra
            $$ to make 'em happy!

            Peggy :)





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8398 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
            I know about the nitrogen cycle.  I'm just telling you that I faithfully take my water to the fish store for testing (I trust them more than myself) and only once have I had any ammonia.  I changed the water and that was that.  I did have ick, though, a few weeks ago. 
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            you can't have nitrites without ammonia.  read up on
            the nitrogen cycle....ammonia to nitrite to nitrate.
            this is why i recommend a fishless cycle ...once your
            tank has gone wrong in the cycle, and you start
            medicating and changing water, it is an uphill battle
            that takes much longer than the original 4-6 weeks.
            that is 4-6 weeks with no outside changes.  a couple
            fish will not be a detriment, but cycle with 1/4
            capacity and up just does not work well.
            --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

            > I am evidently still cycling (I thought it would be
            > over by now, but it's been going on approx. 5
            > weeks).  I have never, ever had any ammonia to speak
            > of.  At one test, I had a little, changed water (4
            > out of 20 gallons) and it was fine.  Since then,
            > there's not been any.  There are currently 2 zebra
            > danios and a frog who are being fed very sparingly.
            > The other fish have all died.  We did have an ick
            > episode and I used the quick cure.  Those fish died
            > from the nitrite issues, though.
            >
            > Anyway, is there any hope?  I really want to stick
            > it out, but I'm getting very frustrated.
            >
            > Thanks for your help,
            > Angela
            >
            > -------------- Original message --------------
            > the first thing yo9u need to do is to find out why
            > you
            > have detectable nitrites?? if you have them you have
            > ammonia coming in from somewhere... are you
            > cycling?.......
            > --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > My nitrites are still up around .5, so I changed
            > out
            > > 4 out of 20 gallons and went to the pet store and
            > > got a handful of plants - she gave them to me,
            > since
            > > she didn't have many.  There are about 10 stalks
            > of
            > > the plant all together.  I'll check back later in
            > > the week to get some more.  Anyway, I'm still
            > > running the nitra zorb pillow, recharging after
            > > every 5 days or so.  What do you guys think - will
            > > this too pass? 
            >
            >
            >
            >            
            > __________________________________
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            > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search.
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            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8399 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: obese looking oranda
            I'm guessing it was a typo and "definite" is what is meant here.  There've been a few times recently that people have jumped on someone without full knowledge of what's going on.  How about if we cut that out?
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
               Please don't consider the fish as "DEFIANT"! That implies the fish is making an effort to disturb you by spiteful behaviour and indicates an errant, unstable attitude, that could result in inappropriate action on your part, when you should be experiencing understanding, concern and compassion.
                                                       Joe Pascavage
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            I looked at the photos and maybe it is normal looking.  The other one
            just looks so trim next to it.  I've been watching it and it sometimes
            is defiantly leaning a touch to one side but not always.  I'll try to
            take a picture.

            Thanks for everyones feedback!

            At 11:43 AM 2/5/2005, you wrote:
               I've kept Goldfish, and a few that were radically, artificially
            mutated, and seem top remember that extreme genetic manipulation
            resulted in swim-bladder problems. I don't know what the lump is, but
            the list and lump could be related to inherited problems.
                                                          Joe Pascavage



            One of my Oranda's is getting rounder and rounder.  Sometimes now when I
            look at it straight on it looks like it's leaning a little towards one
            side.
            Is that normal?  Really it looks like it swallowed a golf ball.  It's
            still
            active and swims around, noses around in the gravel etc, it just looks
            funny. I only have 2 and the other one looks fine.

            Terri


            Terri Bryant
            www.RainbowSnails.com




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8400 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care
            >Latarite and vermiculite
            > are for specialist substrates and for people who know what they are
            doing, I
            > do not recommend latarite to any plant starter.

            Why don't you recommend laterite?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8401 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care

            Many reasons: It works like a soil substrate and uprooting any heavy root feeders will cause problems and make the water muddy. It has more chances of going anaerobic then gravel or sand and could pose a problem.. this can be avoided by a heating cable but that is another debate altogether. For an average aquarist, substrates like fluorite and eco complete or even their mixes with normal pea gravel is sufficient enough unless you want to experiment with high light + high CO2 tanks. Only in these cases the standard gravel/sand can be outcompeted, otherwise, I have myself had lush planted tanks in a matured gravel/sand substrate without any problems.

             

            Infact, I had laterite, soil substrate, fluorite and just fractured lava rock gravel, Sand and the best result I had was with the lava rock gravel and am still struggling with fluorite. I had better results with coarse 3mm sand then I had with latarite and soil probably because my lighting and CO2 was not enough to allow the plants to cope with the available nutrients.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: cynthia brennemann [mailto:brennewoman@...]
            Sent: 08 February 2005 12:20
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plant Care

             



            >Latarite and vermiculite
            > are for specialist substrates and for people who know what they are
            doing, I
            > do not recommend latarite to any plant starter.

            Why don't you recommend laterite?





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8402 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
            When you say that the filters were dry, I presume you mean that the
            filter boxes were of course just emptied of water. I wouldn't think
            that in the period of four hours that the filter medium could get
            bone dry. To take out and immerse the filter medium into the tank is
            counter-productive to the purpose of filtering (and unnecessary) as
            you are reintroducing the fish waste to the aquarium. If there is a
            build-up of fish waste on/in the filter medium, you should rinse off
            the waste (using only the aquarium water), so the beneficial bacteria
            are not deprived of oxygen. Otherwise, they will die off and
            anaerobic bacteria will take over. After rinsing of the fish waste,
            you could suspend the medium in the aquarium, or use a separate
            container (with aquarium water). As long as the medium was still
            damp, the Nitrobacters should have survived. The gravel holds a good
            culture of them too. Do not replace with fresh filter medium.
            Should be no need to recycle the tank which if you think of it, you
            will have very little control over that anyway, unless you were
            thinking of adding more store bought bacteria and certainly not a
            dose of ammonia (to "jump start" it) with fish already being in the
            tank. Just keep an eye on your ammonia and nitrite test results in
            the next week or two; you may have to do a few more frequent water
            changes, but I doubt it.
            Ray
            \
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mommy2acdhsurvivor" <CK147@H...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hello,
            > we had a bad wreck a mile out of town. A car driven by a 19 year
            old
            > hit a greyhound bus killing him and sending the bus sliding off the
            > highway taking out some powerline poles. Our power was out for over
            4
            > hours so the filters where pretty dry does this mean I'm gonna have
            to
            > recycle my tanks I assume most of the bacteria is now dead....
            Please
            > help.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8403 From: Terri Bryant Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: obese looking oranda
            Thank you!  Come on guys!  I greatly appreciate the help I get on this forum - I learn 1000 times more than I help anyone else.  Don't jump on me because of a typo LOL, I am not 3 years old and think the fish is out to get me or something, I just forgot to double check my content before I hit send!  Thanks for help on the Oranda.


            angelasjenkins@... wrote:
            I'm guessing it was a typo and "definite" is what is meant here.  There've been a few times recently that people have jumped on someone without full knowledge of what's going on.  How about if we cut that out?
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
               Please don't consider the fish as "DEFIANT"! That implies the fish is making an effort to disturb you by spiteful behaviour and indicates an errant, unstable attitude, that could result in inappropriate action on your part, when you should be experiencing understanding, concern and compassion.
                                                       Joe Pascavage
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            I looked at the photos and maybe it is normal looking.  The other one
            just looks so trim next to it.  I've been watching it and it sometimes

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8404 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care( tankmates)
            you know its funny because after watching him just hiding under the rocks I realized there was so much more life when I saw him with several other albino cory's in the tank. I am planning another trip to the LPS this weekend and probably pick up 3 or so more

            thanks for the tip

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8405 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Digest Number 601 CHECKING AMMONIA
            In a message dated 2/8/05 10:08:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com writes:


            I know about the nitrogen cycle.  I'm just telling you that I faithfully take my water to the fish store for testing (I trust them more than myself) and only once have I had any ammonia.  I changed the water and that was that.  I did have ick, though, a few weeks ago.  


            I wonder how long it takes you to get to your fish store.  I know when I had brackish water fishes, I tried to bring water home from a nearby beach, and by the time I got home - about 1/2 hour - the sp gr had changed.  I was wondering if the same could happen with an ammonia reading.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8406 From: Dawana Branch Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Oscar question for a friend

            Guys,

            I have a friend that I met through another Freshwater Fish Yahoo Group that isn't active as this one.  I know there are lots of experts here.  Please read his problem below and provide suggestions.  It would be VERY MUCH appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

            -Dawana

            ~~~~~~

            Hello Everyone

            I am a prospective oscar owner and am looking for some advice. I
            have had a small 10 gallon community tank till now with some mollies
            and guppies sucessfully breeding in it. I always wanted to have an
            ocar since I was a kid but never had money, time or space to afford
            a large tank. A recent visit to LFS my wife and I came across an 8
            inch healthy oscar that had been up for adoption. We fell in love
            with this fellow and sat there and watched him for an hour. We are
            planning to adopt him and here is what we have done so far.
            Set up:
            All-Glass 55 Gallon aquarium with 24" flourescent hoods w/lamps
            Whisper PF-60 HOB filter
            Marineland Visi-Therm 200w heater
            LCD thermometer
            I have set up a 55 gallon tank now with everything running for a day
            or so. The LFS said that I have till the 16th to take the oscar or
            they will have to give it off to someone.
            I have added some biozyme soon after setting up the tank and some
            rocks from the older 10 gal guppy tank. The water now is a bit
            cloudy white ....not sure why its like that...may be bacteria?.
            Since I have a week or so I am not sure if its a good idea to add
            amonia to start fishless cycle and still make sure that the amonia
            levels are low enough by then so that I dont kill my fish. The other
            option is to let the tank the way it is and add the fish into it and
            hope he recovers.
            Your advice and suggestions will be very useful to going either way.
            Thanks in advance.
            Vishnu


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8407 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care
            Hmm. That's odd. My gravel wasn't supporting anything but the
            floater plants. I put in a laterite mix substrate and the plants are
            growing a bit TOO fast. LOL. Never satisfied, me. Anyway, I don't
            use any CO2 and my lights are just average, but supplemented by
            window light. The laterite doesn't get too heavy for me, since it is
            mixed with vermiculite and peat. And I really haven't had any
            problems uprooting plants...it may get a big mucky at first, but it
            settles fast. My plants are Mondo Grass, Java Fern, Sword, and hair
            grass, as well as a purple arrowhead sort of plant with big leaves,
            and a variegated flag.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8408 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Oscar question for a friend
            Oscars will eat any fish that isn't as big/bigger than them. I've
            never seen an oscar that wouldn't. I won't have them, since I like a
            community tank. But if you just want oscars, they are awfully pretty
            and personable.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8409 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care

            In a new tank, gravel will not support anything at all. Once the gravel starts to gather muck, it can be great for plants. Latarite is good, but usually not worth the hassle IME/O

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: cynthia brennemann [mailto:brennewoman@...]
            Sent: 08 February 2005 16:34
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plant Care

             


            Hmm.  That's odd.  My gravel wasn't supporting anything but the
            floater plants.  I put in a laterite mix substrate and the plants are
            growing a bit TOO fast. LOL.  Never satisfied, me.  Anyway, I don't
            use any CO2 and my lights are just average, but supplemented by
            window light.  The laterite doesn't get too heavy for me, since it is
            mixed with vermiculite and peat.  And I really haven't had any
            problems uprooting plants...it may get a big mucky at first, but it
            settles fast.  My plants are Mondo Grass, Java Fern, Sword, and hair
            grass, as well as a purple arrowhead sort of plant with big leaves,
            and a variegated flag.





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8410 From: Colleen Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: baby
            Did anyone see my message about the baby?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8411 From: joequality1980 Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: baby
            I assume you mean a baby fish... "baby" can denote a lot of
            different organisms.

            general advice would be to keep it where it is until it is big
            enough to not get eaten by other fish
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8412 From: Colleen Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: baby
            thanks i will do that now the water needs to be changed im scared about changing it in fear of losing it what should i do?
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:15 AM
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: baby


            I assume you mean a baby fish... "baby" can denote a lot of
            different organisms.

            general advice would be to keep it where it is until it is big
            enough to not get eaten by other fish





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8413 From: joequality1980 Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: substrate upgrade
            I am in that situation where I only had gravel and plants once the
            tank was established. Now I would like to upgrade my substrate to
            something proper-- any suggestions? It seems like there's so much
            material to use. (currently I have some swords, anacharais, and java
            fern)

            > Gravel is usually enough for a low tech tank as long as it is 6
            months old
            > and holds some dirt to be able to feed the plants. Latarite and
            vermiculite
            > are for specialist substrates and for people who know what they
            are doing, I
            > do not recommend latarite to any plant starter. First, try some
            hardy plants
            > in gravel and then later think about upgrading the substrate.
            Flourite & eco
            > complete however are a good starter substrate for new comers as
            well but are
            > expensive.
            >
            >
            >
            > Nim
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8414 From: joequality1980 Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: baby
            mainly just be careful. You can put some sort of filter on the end
            of your syphon, like a net or something similar as to not suck up
            the fry. Keep the stress level of the fish down too

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Colleen" <alaskaicekubes@a...>
            wrote:
            > thanks i will do that now the water needs to be changed im scared
            about changing it in fear of losing it what should i do?
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: joequality1980
            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:15 AM
            > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: baby
            >
            >
            >
            > I assume you mean a baby fish... "baby" can denote a lot of
            > different organisms.
            >
            > general advice would be to keep it where it is until it is big
            > enough to not get eaten by other fish
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
            thanks
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > ADVERTISEMENT
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > -------------------------------------------------------------------
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            >
            > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            >
            > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
            of Service.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8415 From: Western Cowgirl Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Oscar question for a friend
            Hi Dawana and Vishnu,
             
            I haven't had oscars for a few years but when I did I had 3 oscars (2 Tiger Oscars and 1 Albino Oscar) about 10 inches long in, I even had them in with a 12 inch koi, but they grew up together so they got along, they were housed in a 250 gallon and a 150 gallon tank. If you can afford it you might want to get a bigger tank because they grow to 12 inches or more and he will probably outgrow the 55 gallons. They can live 10 - 15 years. They love live goldfish and the easiest way to feed I found was to have a 10 - 30  gallon tank (which you can buy with no lid for very cheap) and buy goldfish in bulk, the more you buy usually the cheaper they are, at 8 inches long he can probably eat medium to large goldfish. Also they like worms from your backyard or when it rains, I used to have a bucket full of worms. And all the healthy stuff like brime shrimp and frozen bloodworms.
             
            When I had mine I had a Fluval 404 or something like it ? Filter plus I had an underground filter and every once and a while we syphoned the dirt out of from under the underground filter, and it kept it pretty clean plus we fully cleaned the tank every once in a while too! Also we had a fairly large plecco about 6 inches long in there, but they grew up with him too so I don't know if yours would try to eat one.
             
            Here is a very good website for Oscars it details how you should cycle and clean the tank: http://www.oscarfish.com/
             
            Good Luck with your Oscar!
             
            ~Pam
            10 Gallon Aquarium
            Hot Rod (Male Siamese Fighting Fish)
            Socks (Baby White Goldfish with Black fins)
            Tank (Grey Plecco)
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:11 AM
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Oscar question for a friend

            Guys,

            I have a friend that I met through another Freshwater Fish Yahoo Group that isn't active as this one.  I know there are lots of experts here.  Please read his problem below and provide suggestions.  It would be VERY MUCH appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

            -Dawana

            ~~~~~~

            Hello Everyone

            I am a prospective oscar owner and am looking for some advice. I
            have had a small 10 gallon community tank till now with some mollies
            and guppies sucessfully breeding in it. I always wanted to have an
            ocar since I was a kid but never had money, time or space to afford
            a large tank. A recent visit to LFS my wife and I came across an 8
            inch healthy oscar that had been up for adoption. We fell in love
            with this fellow and sat there and watched him for an hour. We are
            planning to adopt him and here is what we have done so far.
            Set up:
            All-Glass 55 Gallon aquarium with 24" flourescent hoods w/lamps
            Whisper PF-60 HOB filter
            Marineland Visi-Therm 200w heater
            LCD thermometer
            I have set up a 55 gallon tank now with everything running for a day
            or so. The LFS said that I have till the 16th to take the oscar or
            they will have to give it off to someone.
            I have added some biozyme soon after setting up the tank and some
            rocks from the older 10 gal guppy tank. The water now is a bit
            cloudy white ....not sure why its like that...may be bacteria?.
            Since I have a week or so I am not sure if its a good idea to add
            amonia to start fishless cycle and still make sure that the amonia
            levels are low enough by then so that I dont kill my fish. The other
            option is to let the tank the way it is and add the fish into it and
            hope he recovers.
            Your advice and suggestions will be very useful to going either way.
            Thanks in advance.
            Vishnu

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8416 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: substrate upgrade

            Joe,

             

            I would suggest to go for Flourite or volcanit or eco-complete. Sprinkle a hand full of peat moss as the first layer before laying the gravel. This will help kick start the plants.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: joequality1980 [mailto:crazy.joe.walcek@...]
            Sent: 08 February 2005 18:34
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] substrate upgrade

             


            I am in that situation where I only had gravel and plants once the
            tank was established. Now I would like to upgrade my substrate to
            something proper-- any suggestions? It seems like there's so much
            material to use. (currently I have some swords, anacharais, and java
            fern)

            > Gravel is usually enough for a low tech tank as long as it is 6
            months old
            > and holds some dirt to be able to feed the plants. Latarite and
            vermiculite
            > are for specialist substrates and for people who know what they
            are doing, I
            > do not recommend latarite to any plant starter. First, try some
            hardy plants
            > in gravel and then later think about upgrading the substrate.
            Flourite & eco
            > complete however are a good starter substrate for new comers as
            well but are
            > expensive.
            >

            >
            > Nim






            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8417 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: baby

            What kind of a baby is it Colleen?

             

             


            From: Colleen [mailto:alaskaicekubes@...]
            Sent: 07 February 2005 17:41
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] baby

             

            I have a baby still its doing just fine getting big but still a baby should i put it over to the other tank with filteration and with the bleeding heart and two neons or keep it where it is .I am afraid to do anything to the tank in fear of losing it .

            Colleen..........



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8418 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Digest Number 601 CHECKING AMMONIA
            I'm within 5 minutes of my fish store.  I'm
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            In a message dated 2/8/05 10:08:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com writes:


            I know about the nitrogen cycle.  I'm just telling you that I faithfully take my water to the fish store for testing (I trust them more than myself) and only once have I had any ammonia.  I changed the water and that was that.  I did have ick, though, a few weeks ago.  


            I wonder how long it takes you to get to your fish store.  I know when I had brackish water fishes, I tried to bring water home from a nearby beach, and by the time I got home - about 1/2 hour - the sp gr had changed.  I was wondering if the same could happen with an ammonia reading.


            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8419 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Digest Number 601 CHECKING AMMONIA
            I'm within 5 minutes of my fish store.  I'm really at a
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            In a message dated 2/8/05 10:08:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com writes:


            I know about the nitrogen cycle.  I'm just telling you that I faithfully take my water to the fish store for testing (I trust them more than myself) and only once have I had any ammonia.  I changed the water and that was that.  I did have ick, though, a few weeks ago.  


            I wonder how long it takes you to get to your fish store.  I know when I had brackish water fishes, I tried to bring water home from a nearby beach, and by the time I got home - about 1/2 hour - the sp gr had changed.  I was wondering if the same could happen with an ammonia reading.


            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8420 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Digest Number 601 CHECKING AMMONIA
            I'm within 5 minutes of my fish store. 
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            In a message dated 2/8/05 10:08:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com writes:


            I know about the nitrogen cycle.  I'm just telling you that I faithfully take my water to the fish store for testing (I trust them more than myself) and only once have I had any ammonia.  I changed the water and that was that.  I did have ick, though, a few weeks ago.  


            I wonder how long it takes you to get to your fish store.  I know when I had brackish water fishes, I tried to bring water home from a nearby beach, and by the time I got home - about 1/2 hour - the sp gr had changed.  I was wondering if the same could happen with an ammonia reading.


            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8421 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Digest Number 601 CHECKING AMMONIA
            I'm within 5 minutes of my fish store.  I'm really at a loss as to
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            In a message dated 2/8/05 10:08:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com writes:


            I know about the nitrogen cycle.  I'm just telling you that I faithfully take my water to the fish store for testing (I trust them more than myself) and only once have I had any ammonia.  I changed the water and that was that.  I did have ick, though, a few weeks ago.  


            I wonder how long it takes you to get to your fish store.  I know when I had brackish water fishes, I tried to bring water home from a nearby beach, and by the time I got home - about 1/2 hour - the sp gr had changed.  I was wondering if the same could happen with an ammonia reading.


            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8422 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Digest Number 601 CHECKING AMMONIA
            I'm within 5 minutes of my fish store.  I'm really at a loss as to what to
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            In a message dated 2/8/05 10:08:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com writes:


            I know about the nitrogen cycle.  I'm just telling you that I faithfully take my water to the fish store for testing (I trust them more than myself) and only once have I had any ammonia.  I changed the water and that was that.  I did have ick, though, a few weeks ago.  


            I wonder how long it takes you to get to your fish store.  I know when I had brackish water fishes, I tried to bring water home from a nearby beach, and by the time I got home - about 1/2 hour - the sp gr had changed.  I was wondering if the same could happen with an ammonia reading.


            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8423 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Digest Number 601 CHECKING AMMONIA
            I'm within 5 minutes of my fish store.  I'm really at a loss as to what
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            In a message dated 2/8/05 10:08:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com writes:


            I know about the nitrogen cycle.  I'm just telling you that I faithfully take my water to the fish store for testing (I trust them more than myself) and only once have I had any ammonia.  I changed the water and that was that.  I did have ick, though, a few weeks ago.  


            I wonder how long it takes you to get to your fish store.  I know when I had brackish water fishes, I tried to bring water home from a nearby beach, and by the time I got home - about 1/2 hour - the sp gr had changed.  I was wondering if the same could happen with an ammonia reading.


            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8424 From: paul helms Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Oscar question for a friend
            slight correction there...oscars will not eat anything
            that does not fit in their mouth...they do not have
            teeth to rip fish apart, just a big bass mouth
            --- cynthia brennemann <brennewoman@...>
            wrote:

            >
            > Oscars will eat any fish that isn't as big/bigger
            > than them. I've
            > never seen an oscar that wouldn't. I won't have
            > them, since I like a
            > community tank. But if you just want oscars, they
            > are awfully pretty
            > and personable.
            >
            >
            >
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8425 From: Colleen Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: baby
            we think its a molly we were not home when the babies were born
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:55 AM
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] baby

            What kind of a baby is it Colleen?

             

             


            From: Colleen [mailto:alaskaicekubes@...]
            Sent: 07 February 2005 17:41
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] baby

             

            I have a baby still its doing just fine getting big but still a baby should i put it over to the other tank with filteration and with the bleeding heart and two neons or keep it where it is .I am afraid to do anything to the tank in fear of losing it .

            Colleen..........



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8426 From: Amalthea Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: substrate upgrade
            i'm also curious about this. if you were to get something like eco
            complete, can it just be mixed in with the existing gravel?
            amalthea
            Get em' while they're cheap!
            Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the
            Basement....
            http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
            On Feb 8, 2005, at 1:34 PM, joequality1980 wrote:

            > I am in that situation where I only had gravel and plants once the
            > tank was established. Now I would like to upgrade my substrate to
            > something proper-- any suggestions? It seems like there's so much
            > material to use. (currently I have some swords, anacharais, and java
            > fern)
            >
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8427 From: paul helms Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
            just stating a fact...you CAN NOT have taht much
            nitrite without a source...which is ...(drum roll
            please) AMMONIA!
            --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

            > I know about the nitrogen cycle. I'm just telling
            > you that I faithfully take my water to the fish
            > store for testing (I trust them more than myself)
            > and only once have I had any ammonia. I changed the
            > water and that was that. I did have ick, though, a
            > few weeks ago.
            >
            > -------------- Original message --------------
            > you can't have nitrites without ammonia. read up on
            > the nitrogen cycle....ammonia to nitrite to nitrate.
            > this is why i recommend a fishless cycle ...once
            > your
            > tank has gone wrong in the cycle, and you start
            > medicating and changing water, it is an uphill
            > battle
            > that takes much longer than the original 4-6 weeks.
            > that is 4-6 weeks with no outside changes. a couple
            > fish will not be a detriment, but cycle with 1/4
            > capacity and up just does not work well.
            > --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
            >
            > > I am evidently still cycling (I thought it would
            > be
            > > over by now, but it's been going on approx. 5
            > > weeks). I have never, ever had any ammonia to
            > speak
            > > of. At one test, I had a little, changed water (4
            > > out of 20 gallons) and it was fine. Since then,
            > > there's not been any. There are currently 2 zebra
            > > danios and a frog who are being fed very
            > sparingly.
            > > The other fish have all died. We did have an ick
            > > episode and I used the quick cure. Those fish
            > died
            > > from the nitrite issues, though.
            > >
            > > Anyway, is there any hope? I really want to stick
            > > it out, but I'm getting very frustrated.
            > >
            > > Thanks for your help,
            > > Angela
            > >
            > > -------------- Original message --------------
            > > the first thing yo9u need to do is to find out why
            > > you
            > > have detectable nitrites?? if you have them you
            > have
            > > ammonia coming in from somewhere... are you
            > > cycling?.......
            > > --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
            > >
            > > >
            > > > My nitrites are still up around .5, so I changed
            > > out
            > > > 4 out of 20 gallons and went to the pet store
            > and
            > > > got a handful of plants - she gave them to me,
            > > since
            > > > she didn't have many. There are about 10 stalks
            > > of
            > > > the plant all together. I'll check back later
            > in
            > > > the week to get some more. Anyway, I'm still
            > > > running the nitra zorb pillow, recharging after
            > > > every 5 days or so. What do you guys think -
            > will
            > > > this too pass?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > __________________________________
            > > Do you Yahoo!?
            > > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced
            > search.
            > > Learn more.
            > > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
            > >
            > >
            > > please delete this line and everything below it
            > when
            > > replying, thanks
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
            > > Terms of Service.
            >
            >
            >
            >
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            >
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            > replying, thanks
            >
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            >
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8428 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
            Glad to hear it thank you.


            > I don't think that's going to be a problem. We had a similar thing
            last
            > year. Had just got my tank stable for about a month - water all
            set. Went that
            > morning and bought two BEAUTIFUL Angel fish - a mated pair. At
            noon - power
            > dies - I had just released them into the tank! Was out for about
            8 hours.
            > Just made sure I primed the pump for the filter - never had any
            problem.
            > Think it takes longer for bacteria to die.....
            >
            > Al
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8429 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
            There was still water sitting about 1 1/2 inches into the filter box
            but the top half was pretty dry where the water usually gets pushed
            through. Yeah they have gravel and have both been running over a year.
            JUst regular hang on the back wisper filters. Yeah It kicked the
            computer off aswell we leaving it running 24/7. I'll check into that
            bacteria although we are having snow and icey roads today so I won't
            be able to leave the house. THanks for the info


            > If The filters are dry then yes the bacteria is gone. Do you have
            any gravel in these tanks? They might retain some bacteria to speed
            the process up. Any sponge filters in any of your tanks, or in-tank
            filters?
            >
            > You may have to go buy some live bacteria in a bottle. I believe
            there are a couple brands, although I cannot recall them at the moment.
            >
            > I know it is too late now, but maybe get an Uninterrupted power
            supply like are used for computers. I used to have one setup, but I
            don't have it setup anymore, maybe I should now.
            >
            > Mike
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8430 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
            The water didn't all disappear but most of the filter the top half
            exposed to the air was.


            > I can't imagine the water disappears from around your filters the
            moment the power disappears? I would immerse your filter medium/a into
            the tank, install fresh filter media, and take chemical readings 'till
            you're satisfied. (assuming you know how long to take chem readings)
            > Joe Pascavage
            >
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8431 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: substrate upgrade

            Amalthea,

             

            It can be mixed with other gravel but keep in mind that these fractured porous gravel are lighter then the standard pea gravel so will eventually land up at the top. You can however mix lava rock gravel with eco-complete or fluorite. It works out better then pure gravel on its own and very economical as well.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
            Sent: 08 February 2005 19:15
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] substrate upgrade

             

            i'm also curious about this. if you were to get something like eco complete, can it just be mixed in with the existing gravel?
            amalthea
            Get em' while they're cheap!
            Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the Basement....
            http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop

            On Feb 8, 2005, at 1:34 PM, joequality1980 wrote:

            I am in that situation where I only had gravel and plants once the
            tank was established. Now I would like to upgrade my substrate to
            something proper-- any suggestions? It seems like there's so much
            material to use. (currently I have some swords, anacharais, and java
            fern)

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8432 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER
            Wow what I would do if I won the lottery!!!! I would definately fix
            them something good. (One reason I have placed sponge filters in all
            my tanks).Not sure what sponge filters are. Sorry I'm a dork.


            > I know its to late now but as long as the Pads/filters are still wet
            they
            > should still be alive.
            > If the power ever goes out again, remove your pads/sponges what ever
            you use
            > for median and just place them into the tank. There will not be any
            waterflow
            > but at least they will stay wet, and alive.
            > We loose electricy a lot during the summer months here because of
            > thunderstorms... One reason I have placed sponge filters in all my
            tanks. If all else
            > fails you have some kind of filteration.
            >
            > If I ever win the lottery, I'll invest in a backup electrical
            source. :-) but
            > until then I'll stick with my sponge filter back ups.
            >
            > rob
            > NE Indiana
            > USA
            >
            > In a message dated 2/8/2005 12:33:11 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
            > wtfmorlok@y... writes:
            >
            >
            > > Our power
            > > > was out for over 4
            > > > hours so the filters where pretty dry does this mean
            > > > I'm gonna have to
            > > > recycle my tanks I assume most of the bacteria is
            > > > now dead.... Please
            > > > help.
            > > >
            > >
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8433 From: Amalthea Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: substrate upgrade
            well, that was my plan. what i have right now is plain black small
            grained gravel, and i've just reached the point where i've maxed out my
            plant possibilities with light and co2 while keeping that as a
            substrate. i was thinking that what i could do is just put some
            eco-complete over it, around the existing plants and sort of mix it in
            a bit. i just wanted to make sure nothing bad would happen in the
            mixing.
            amalthea
            http://www.amaltheasattic.com
            Your Alternative to the Alternative....
            On Feb 8, 2005, at 2:21 PM, Nimish Mathur wrote:

            > Amalthea,
            >
            >  
            >
            > It can be mixed with other gravel but keep in mind that these
            > fractured porous gravel are lighter then the standard pea gravel so
            > will eventually land up at the top. You can however mix lava rock
            > gravel with eco-complete or fluorite. It works out better then pure
            > gravel on its own and very economical as well.
            >
            >  
            >
            > Nim
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8434 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrite Update

            Apologies for catching up on this thread late and incomplete. AFAIK, you started your tank in December? With a question on water change and temperature. Firstly, I must say that a cycling tank should face as minimum changes as possible and should be kept as stable as possible. This includes avoiding water changes.

             

            Second, why in the world are you using nitrazorb in a tank that has not completely cycled? Decide on 1 thing, either rely on bacteria to control ammonia and nitrites or rely on chemicals/resins for it which will not last very long and be expensive on the pocket.

             

            3rd, As Paul said, Nitrite cannot come without ammonia, so it seems that half of your bacteria are developed and when the other half starts to develop, you do a water change or the nitrazorb creates some problems. Leave it alone for a couple of weeks.,

             

            4rth, Nitrates are different and Nitrites are different. Nitrites are the more toxic ones, Nitrates start to get toxic at high readings of 40-60ppm. Nitrites are toxic even in traces. To prevent nitrite poisoning, you can add 1 tea spoon of aquarium salt per 5 gallons of water but remember when doing water changes and topping up water that salt does not evaporate. If you change water, then add salt only for the amount of water changed.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 08 February 2005 11:34
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrite Update

             

            I know about the nitrogen cycle.  I'm just telling you that I faithfully take my water to the fish store for testing (I trust them more than myself) and only once have I had any ammonia.  I changed the water and that was that.  I did have ick, though, a few weeks ago. 

             

            -------------- Original message --------------
            you can't have nitrites without ammonia.  read up on
            the nitrogen cycle....ammonia to nitrite to nitrate.
            this is why i recommend a fishless cycle ...once your
            tank has gone wrong in the cycle, and you start
            medicating and changing water, it is an uphill battle
            that takes much longer than the original 4-6 weeks.
            that is 4-6 weeks with no outside changes.  a couple
            fish will not be a detriment, but cycle with 1/4
            capacity and up just does not work well.
            --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

            > I am evidently still cycling (I thought it would be
            > over by now, but it's been going on approx. 5
            > weeks).  I have never, ever had any ammonia to speak
            > of.  At one test, I had a little, changed water (4
            > out of 20 gallons) and it was fine.  Since then,
            > there's not been any.  There are currently 2 zebra
            > danios and a frog who are being fed very sparingly.
            > The other fish have all died.  We did have an ick
            > episode and I used the quick cure.  Those fish died
            > from the nitrite issues, though.
            >
            > Anyway, is there any hope?  I really want to stick
            > it out, but I'm getting very frustrated.
            >
            > Thanks for your help,
            > Angela
            >
            > -------------- Original message --------------
            > the first thing yo9u need to do is to find out why
            > you
            > have detectable nitrites?? if you have them you have
            > ammonia coming in from somewhere... are you
            > cycling?.......
            > --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > My nitrites are still up around .5, so I changed
            > out
            > > 4 out of 20 gallons and went to the pet store and
            > > got a handful of plants - she gave them to me,
            > since
            > > she didn't have many.  There are about 10 stalks
            > of
            > > the plant all together.  I'll check back later in
            > > the week to get some more.  Anyway, I'm still
            > > running the nitra zorb pillow, recharging after
            > > every 5 days or so.  What do you guys think - will
            > > this too pass? 
            >
            >
            >
            >            
            > __________________________________
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search.
            > Learn more.
            > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when
            > replying, thanks
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            >  
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            > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >  
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
            > Terms of Service.



                       
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            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8435 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: substrate upgrade

            Yep. Should be fine. I don’t see any problem in this. I already have fluorite mixed with slight amounts of gravel (7 bags fluorite and 2 bags gravel).

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
            Sent: 08 February 2005 19:25
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] substrate upgrade

             

            well, that was my plan. what i have right now is plain black small grained gravel, and i've just reached the point where i've maxed out my plant possibilities with light and co2 while keeping that as a substrate. i was thinking that what i could do is just put some eco-complete over it, around the existing plants and sort of mix it in a bit. i just wanted to make sure nothing bad would happen in the mixing.
            amalthea
            http://www.amaltheasattic.com
            Your Alternative to the Alternative....
            On Feb 8, 2005, at 2:21 PM, Nimish Mathur wrote:

            Amalthea,

             

            It can be mixed with other gravel but keep in mind that these fractured porous gravel are lighter then the standard pea gravel so will eventually land up at the top. You can however mix lava rock gravel with eco-complete or fluorite. It works out better then pure gravel on its own and very economical as well.

             

            Nim

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8436 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
            I was just stating a fact, as well.  I have not had a problem with elevated ammonia.  That's what I don't understand.  I had read about the cycling, and my first sign of trouble was the ich.  A week after that, the nitrites jumped and they've continued to be high.  What is your advice?  Should I take out the nitrazorb and replace it with the filter material and stop changing the water?
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            just stating a fact...you CAN NOT have taht much
            nitrite without a source...which is ...(drum roll
            please) AMMONIA!
            --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

            > I know about the nitrogen cycle.  I'm just telling
            > you that I faithfully take my water to the fish
            > store for testing (I trust them more than myself)
            > and only once have I had any ammonia.  I changed the
            > water and that was that.  I did have ick, though, a
            > few weeks ago. 
            >
            > -------------- Original message --------------
            > you can't have nitrites without ammonia.  read up on
            > the nitrogen cycle....ammonia to nitrite to nitrate.
            > this is why i recommend a fishless cycle ...once
            > your
            > tank has gone wrong in the cycle, and you start
            > medicating and changing water, it is an uphill
            > battle
            > that takes much longer than the original 4-6 weeks.
            > that is 4-6 weeks with no outside changes.  a couple
            > fish will not be a detriment, but cycle with 1/4
            > capacity and up just does not work well.
            > --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
            >
            > > I am evidently still cycling (I thought it would
            > be
            > > over by now, but it's been going on approx. 5
            > > weeks).  I have never, ever had any ammonia to
            > speak
            > > of.  At one test, I had a little, changed water (4
            > > out of 20 gallons) and it was fine.  Since then,
            > > there's not been any.  There are currently 2 zebra
            > > danios and a frog who are being fed very
            > sparingly.
            > > The other fish have all died.  We did have an ick
            > > episode and I used the quick cure.  Those fish
            > died
            > > from the nitrite issues, though.
            > >
            > > Anyway, is there any hope?  I really want to stick
            > > it out, but I'm getting very frustrated.
            > >
            > > Thanks for your help,
            > > Angela
            > >
            > > -------------- Original message --------------
            > > the first thing yo9u need to do is to find out why
            > > you
            > > have detectable nitrites?? if you have them you
            > have
            > > ammonia coming in from somewhere... are you
            > > cycling?.......
            > > --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
            > >
            > > >
            > > > My nitrites are still up around .5, so I changed
            > > out
            > > > 4 out of 20 gallons and went to the pet store
            > and
            > > > got a handful of plants - she gave them to me,
            > > since
            > > > she didn't have many.  There are about 10 stalks
            > > of
            > > > the plant all together.  I'll check back later
            > in
            > > > the week to get some more.  Anyway, I'm still
            > > > running the nitra zorb pillow, recharging after
            > > > every 5 days or so.  What do you guys think -
            > will
            > > > this too pass? 
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >            
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            > > replying, thanks
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8437 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Oscar question for a friend
            Okay...But you'd be surprised at what will fit in their mouths!
            Yeesh!

            > slight correction there...oscars will not eat anything
            > that does not fit in their mouth...they do not have
            > teeth to rip fish apart, just a big bass mouth
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8438 From: Carly Smith Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Oscars
            Hi there,

            The set up sounds pretty good for the O, however, your friend may want to up the filtration....I think, I am not totally familiar with the Whipser filter, but for HOB style filters and oscars, it is often recommend that they do a 10X turnover. For my two in their 90gal I have two AC500 and one Jebo 828. I do water changes about every 3-4 weeks...oscars are neat, but messy! The 55gal will be okay, but like was mentioned, she might want to get a bigger tank in teh future. The 90gal is acceptable for two, like I have mine in, but I am going to start looking for a 125-150 for them, the 90 is going to seem squishy when they are fully grown.

            As far as food, I know someone recommended goldfish feeders, but really they aren't a great idea unless you are breeding them yourself and know they don't have any diseases. If you just buy them from teh lfs and feed them to the O, then you are passing on any diseases that the feeders have to teh oscars. That is why I got the convicts, to breed my own feeders. As well, they should be a treat only. For the staple food you should feed a good pellet, Hikari Gold is a favorite on the oscar site that was mentioned http://www.oscarfish.com and a favorite of my two (though Coral would eat dirt if you told her it was food). As well you can supplement with bloodworms, krill, crickets etc, my guys also like squid.

            The oscarfish.com site is amazing place for information, with people who have had oscars for eons!

            Good luck to your friend and her O, they are very cool fish, I doubt I will be without one or two anymore!

            Carly
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8439 From: photo_muse Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Cory cat babies
            << It turns out I have two cory babies!>>

            Oh man, that is SO cool!!! I just recently purchsed cory cats ...
            aeneus & paleatus. They are neat fish anyway, but babies would be
            AWESOME!! Congrats!!

            Peggy :)
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8440 From: paul helms Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrite Update
            take out the nitra zorb yes, the tank has to be
            allowed to cycle. keep water changes small 5-10%
            --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

            > I was just stating a fact, as well. I have not had
            > a problem with elevated ammonia. That's what I
            > don't understand. I had read about the cycling, and
            > my first sign of trouble was the ich. A week after
            > that, the nitrites jumped and they've continued to
            > be high. What is your advice? Should I take out
            > the nitrazorb and replace it with the filter
            > material and stop changing the water?
            >
            > -------------- Original message --------------
            > just stating a fact...you CAN NOT have taht much
            > nitrite without a source...which is ...(drum roll
            > please) AMMONIA!
            > --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
            >
            > > I know about the nitrogen cycle. I'm just telling
            > > you that I faithfully take my water to the fish
            > > store for testing (I trust them more than myself)
            > > and only once have I had any ammonia. I changed
            > the
            > > water and that was that. I did have ick, though,
            > a
            > > few weeks ago.
            > >
            > > -------------- Original message --------------
            > > you can't have nitrites without ammonia. read up
            > on
            > > the nitrogen cycle....ammonia to nitrite to
            > nitrate.
            > > this is why i recommend a fishless cycle ...once
            > > your
            > > tank has gone wrong in the cycle, and you start
            > > medicating and changing water, it is an uphill
            > > battle
            > > that takes much longer than the original 4-6
            > weeks.
            > > that is 4-6 weeks with no outside changes. a
            > couple
            > > fish will not be a detriment, but cycle with 1/4
            > > capacity and up just does not work well.
            > > --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
            > >
            > > > I am evidently still cycling (I thought it would
            > > be
            > > > over by now, but it's been going on approx. 5
            > > > weeks). I have never, ever had any ammonia to
            > > speak
            > > > of. At one test, I had a little, changed water
            > (4
            > > > out of 20 gallons) and it was fine. Since then,
            > > > there's not been any. There are currently 2
            > zebra
            > > > danios and a frog who are being fed very
            > > sparingly.
            > > > The other fish have all died. We did have an
            > ick
            > > > episode and I used the quick cure. Those fish
            > > died
            > > > from the nitrite issues, though.
            > > >
            > > > Anyway, is there any hope? I really want to
            > stick
            > > > it out, but I'm getting very frustrated.
            > > >
            > > > Thanks for your help,
            > > > Angela
            > > >
            > > > -------------- Original message --------------
            > > > the first thing yo9u need to do is to find out
            > why
            > > > you
            > > > have detectable nitrites?? if you have them you
            > > have
            > > > ammonia coming in from somewhere... are you
            > > > cycling?.......
            > > > --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
            > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > My nitrites are still up around .5, so I
            > changed
            > > > out
            > > > > 4 out of 20 gallons and went to the pet store
            > > and
            > > > > got a handful of plants - she gave them to me,
            > > > since
            > > > > she didn't have many. There are about 10
            > stalks
            > > > of
            > > > > the plant all together. I'll check back later
            > > in
            > > > > the week to get some more. Anyway, I'm still
            > > > > running the nitra zorb pillow, recharging
            > after
            > > > > every 5 days or so. What do you guys think -
            > > will
            > > > > this too pass?
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > __________________________________
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            > > > replying, thanks
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8441 From: photo_muse Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: baby
            Hi Colleen!

            << we think its a molly we were not home when the babies were born>>

            Oh, I've had those ... LOTS of those! <lol>

            The first ones I got, I didn't keep in a separate tank ... I caught
            as many as I could and put them into two floating contraptions made
            to protect the baby fish or eggs.
            (http://leesaqpet.com/PICCAT/10255.htm) I fed them (live) baby brine
            shrimp, a liquid baby fry food and some tiny pellet fry food. I had
            so many grow up that I now have WAY too many mollies!

            We stopped taking the babies out ... and we've STILL had 8 babies
            survive in the tank with all the other big fish! <g> We had a devil
            of a time getting them started, but once they started making babies,
            they haven't stopped!

            Good luck with your little one!

            Peggy :)
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8442 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: (WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER) sponge filter
            Sponge filters  Hydro-Sponge Filters   dense foam sponges can harbor incredible quantities of beneficial nitrifying bacteria. They can be used with or without an airstone for water movement.

            If power outages are a thing in your area it might be wide to invest in an battery powered aerator. The ones they sell through aquarium supplies suck. I'd suggest taking a walk through your local fishing store. Take a look at the aerators for live wells, and live buckets. They have one that's called  "Bubble Buddy or something like that runs on 2 -C batteries. I think they cost like $20 each at fishing tackle shops maybe LESS else where.... I had one but the kids broke it..Plan on getting a few more before summer....

            rob
            NE Indiana
            USA



            n a message dated 2/8/2005 2:26:26 PM US Eastern Standard Time, CK147@... writes:


            Wow what I would do if I won the lottery!!!! I would definately fix
            them something good. (One reason I have placed sponge filters in all
            my tanks).Not sure what sponge filters are. Sorry I'm a dork.




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8443 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: substrate upgrade
            Its ok to mix it, the black sand will work its way to the top over time, but thats ok isn't it? You didn't say you was tired of the black sand just have reached the max on potential.
            With the eco-complete mixed in  or underneath it will have a lot more possiblities.

            The Planted Tank Forum - powered by vBulletin

            a forum I have been reading  lately.....they have a whole section on substates and mixes.. ANd I have been finding it very helpful... I am in planning stages of a Planted tank.... bye bye African Cichlids  :-(

            rob'
            Indiana

            ~~




            what i have right now is plain black small grained gravel, and i've just reached the point where i've maxed out my plant possibilities with light and co2 while keeping that as a substrate. i was thinking that what i could do is just put some eco-complete over


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8444 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: (WRECK KNOCKS OUT POWER) sponge filter
            In a message dated 2/8/2005 9:30:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, FortWayneFish@... writes:
            Take a look at the aerators for live wells, and live buckets. They have one that's called  "Bubble Buddy or something like that runs on 2 -C batteries. I think they cost like $20 each at fishing tackle shops maybe LESS else where.... I had one but the kids broke it..Plan on getting a few more before summer....

            rob
            NE Indiana
            USA
            Hey Rob,
            How long do you think they might run?
            I use a few Hydrosponges as well as a few I built myself and was thinking of using a UPS (uninterupted power supply) like are used for computers in case of power failure.  I used to use a UPS for a while but never had an outage happen while using it.  I did unplug it a few times but never ran it a long time to test it. 
            I was thinking I could get a new UPS and only use it for the hydrosponge air pumps.  I could use it for a lot of tanks that way and they should run a long time as I think an air pump uses less power than a canister or power filter.
            That way if I ever got to take another vacation in this lifetime I could leave home and not be too stressed out about a power outage. 
             
            Mike
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8445 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Cory cat babies

            Congradulation !!!!!!

            In a message dated 2/8/2005 11:15:28 PM US Eastern Standard Time, photo_muse@... writes:


            << It turns out I have two cory babies!>>

            Oh man, that is SO cool!!!  I just recently purchsed cory cats ...
            aeneus & paleatus.  They are neat fish anyway, but babies would be
            AWESOME!!  Congrats!!

            Peggy :)


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8446 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Deenerz...

            Mike -
            I lost power last summer to a tornado across town. We was dark for a little over 40 hours. The aerator pushed bubbles into my 55 gallon tank. Not all the way to bottom but atleast 10" deep for a little over 30 hours...  It was just one plain ole airstone, but it provided much needed water movement and oxygen.  Another thing about the C batteries. Everyone gobbles up the D batteries for flashlights,radios etc... I had no problems with  finding the C batteries. 

            I just hope I can find the same brand aerator here in Indiana. IF all else failed I bought rechargebale  batteries, and was planning on using the 12v/120 converter in the truck to recharge batteries.
            I wish I could afford a UPS  the last time I looked the smallest was around $300. For that price a small generator would be a better option I would think.....

            rob


            In a message dated 2/9/2005 12:43:39 AM US Eastern Standard Time, Deenerz@... writes:


            Hey Rob,
            How long do you think they might run?
            I use a few Hydrosponges as well as a few I built myself and was thinking of using a UPS (uninterupted power supply) like are used for computers in case of power failure.  I used to use a UPS for a while but never had an outage happen while using it. 


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8447 From: Colleen Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: baby
            we have one left out of 11 . the mother died we dont know what happened
            we didnt even know she was pregnant we only had her a  week what is the gestation for a mollie?
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: photo_muse
            Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 7:42 PM
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: baby


            Hi Colleen!

            << we think its a molly we were not home when the babies were born>>

            Oh, I've had those ... LOTS of those!  <lol>

            The first ones I got, I didn't keep in a separate tank ... I caught
            as many as I could and put them into two floating contraptions made
            to protect the baby fish or eggs.
            (http://leesaqpet.com/PICCAT/10255.htm) I fed them (live) baby brine
            shrimp, a liquid baby fry food and some tiny pellet fry food.  I had
            so many grow up that I now have WAY too many mollies!

            We stopped taking the babies out ... and we've STILL had 8 babies
            survive in the tank with all the other big fish!  <g>  We had a devil
            of a time getting them started, but once they started making babies,
            they haven't stopped!

            Good luck with your little one!

            Peggy :)






            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8448 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Deenerz...
            In a message dated 2/8/2005 9:56:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, FortWayneFish@... writes:
            I just hope I can find the same brand aerator here in Indiana. IF all else failed I bought rechargebale  batteries, and was planning on using the 12v/120 converter in the truck to recharge batteries.
            I wish I could afford a UPS  the last time I looked the smallest was around $300. For that price a small generator would be a better option I would think.....

            rob
            Good Idea on the converter and recharging batteries.
            One reason I was looking at the UPS is in Northern California  we have a computer superstore (Fry's) and they have been occasionaly having great sales on UPS's.  I bought mine several years ago for around $40.00 and they have been coming down even more.  Now to be more clear these are the untis designed to give you about 7 minutes to shut your computer system down so you do not lose any data.  But a Monitor and computer use a LOT more power than 4 air pumps.  So I figured they would last a long time with a few air pumps.
             
            Much as I would like to have a generator, my wife would flip out if she came home to our small apartment that thing was chugging away  : )
            Mike
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8449 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: Deenerz...
            I loved Fry's when I lived on the west coast... Don't think we have any in the midwest ....
            Ok I was think something else on the UPS..  It probally would last awhile.. could always borrow one and test it out... or maybe see if anyone has used one in that fashion..

            I checked www.gandermountain.com and do you belive they don't have an Online catalog.
            I know Walmart used to carry them, but there online catalog shows maybe 60% of what they actually carry.
            Where abouts in California? I have fished the Upper Sac river for sturgeon once , loved it, even though we didn't catch anything.
            I grew up in Oregon 1/2 way between California and Washington borders. So we used to fish Southrn Oregon/Middle Washington alot. Only had a chance to fish Sac river once, wish i would have had more oppertunities

            rob

            Checking out "bubble buddies" on search engines not what I am looking for... these are 12V aerators.... guess could always steal the battery out from the car/truck and bring it in the house  LMAO!! 


            In a message dated 2/9/2005 1:15:38 AM US Eastern Standard Time, Deenerz@... writes:


            Good Idea on the converter and recharging batteries.
            One reason I was looking at the UPS is in Northern California  we have a computer superstore (Fry's) and they have been occasionaly having great sales on UPS's.  I bought mine several years ago for around $40.00 and they have been coming down even more.  Now to be more clear these are the untis designed to give you about 7 minutes to shut your computer system down so you do not lose any data.  But a Monitor and computer use a LOT more power than 4 air pumps.  So I figured they would last a long time with a few air pumps.



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8450 From: Amalthea Date: 2/8/2005
            Subject: Re: substrate upgrade
            well, i went out and got a bag of something similar to eco-complete
            (just a different company) and i've made a layer over the gravel. i
            figured that mimics a natural environment more anyway. the gravel is
            definitely heavier than the new substrate, so it should stay on the
            bottom. i'm assuming it'll take a week or so to see any differences,
            though so far i've noticed my plants aren't getting dug up as easily.
            on a totally different note. how much is a gold spotted pleco supposed
            to consume daily? mine is RAVENOUS lately and can eat about a quarter
            of a small zucchini a night, and that's after he's sucked up any left
            over food he finds during the day. if i feed him any less, he eats up
            my wisteria. any ideas as to why he's suddenly so hungry?
            amalthea
            http://www.amaltheasattic.com
            Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
            On Feb 9, 2005, at 12:36 AM, FortWayneFish@... wrote:

            > Its ok to mix it, the black sand will work its way to the top over
            > time, but thats ok isn't it? You didn't say you was tired of the black
            > sand just have reached the max on potential.
            > With the eco-complete mixed in  or underneath it will have a lot more
            > possiblities.
            >
            > The Planted Tank Forum - powered by vBulletin
            >
            > a forum I have been reading  lately.....they have a whole section on
            > substates and mixes.. ANd I have been finding it very helpful... I am
            > in planning stages of a Planted tank.... bye bye African Cichlids  :-(
            >
            > rob'
            > Indiana
            >
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8451 From: paul helms Date: 2/9/2005
            Subject: Re: Deenerz...
            the sacramento river is a lot more famous for
            salmon...were you really going for sturgeon there???
            --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:

            > I loved Fry's when I lived on the west coast...
            > Don't think we have any in
            > the midwest ....
            > Ok I was think something else on the UPS.. It
            > probally would last awhile..
            > could always borrow one and test it out... or maybe
            > see if anyone has used one
            > in that fashion..
            >
            > I checked www.gandermountain.com and do you belive
            > they don't have an Online
            > catalog.
            > I know Walmart used to carry them, but there online
            > catalog shows maybe 60%
            > of what they actually carry.
            > Where abouts in California? I have fished the Upper
            > Sac river for sturgeon
            > once , loved it, even though we didn't catch
            > anything.
            > I grew up in Oregon 1/2 way between California and
            > Washington borders. So we
            > used to fish Southrn Oregon/Middle Washington alot.
            > Only had a chance to fish
            > Sac river once, wish i would have had more
            > oppertunities
            >
            > rob
            >
            > Checking out "bubble buddies" on search engines not
            > what I am looking for...
            > these are 12V aerators.... guess could always steal
            > the battery out from the
            > car/truck and bring it in the house LMAO!!
            >
            >
            > In a message dated 2/9/2005 1:15:38 AM US Eastern
            > Standard Time,
            > Deenerz@... writes:
            >
            >
            > > Good Idea on the converter and recharging
            > batteries.
            > > One reason I was looking at the UPS is in Northern
            > California we have a
            > > computer superstore (Fry's) and they have been
            > occasionaly having great sales on
            > > UPS's. I bought mine several years ago for around
            > $40.00 and they have been
            > > coming down even more. Now to be more clear these
            > are the untis designed to
            > > give you about 7 minutes to shut your computer
            > system down so you do not
            > > lose any data. But a Monitor and computer use a
            > LOT more power than 4 air
            > > pumps. So I figured they would last a long time
            > with a few air pumps.
            > >
            > >
            >
            >


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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8452 From: paul helms Date: 2/9/2005
            Subject: Re: Deenerz...
            if you are just concerned aout oxygen, there is a 9v
            battery backup air poump avaialable at any good lfs
            for 15-20 dollars. it runs on standard power unless
            the power goes out, then it runs the air pump on a 9
            volt battery for 6-8 hours.
            paul
            --- Deenerz@... wrote:

            >
            > In a message dated 2/8/2005 9:56:08 PM Pacific
            > Standard Time,
            > FortWayneFish@... writes:
            >
            > I just hope I can find the same brand aerator here
            > in Indiana. IF all else
            > failed I bought rechargebale batteries, and was
            > planning on using the 12v/120
            > converter in the truck to recharge batteries.
            > I wish I could afford a UPS the last time I looked
            > the smallest was around
            > $300. For that price a small generator would be a
            > better option I would
            > think.....
            >
            > rob
            >
            >
            > Good Idea on the converter and recharging batteries.
            > One reason I was looking at the UPS is in Northern
            > California we have a
            > computer superstore (Fry's) and they have been
            > occasionaly having great sales on
            > UPS's. I bought mine several years ago for around
            > $40.00 and they have been
            > coming down even more. Now to be more clear these
            > are the untis designed to
            > give you about 7 minutes to shut your computer
            > system down so you do not
            > lose any data. But a Monitor and computer use a LOT
            > more power than 4 air
            > pumps. So I figured they would last a long time
            > with a few air pumps.
            >
            > Much as I would like to have a generator, my wife
            > would flip out if she came
            > home to our small apartment that thing was chugging
            > away : )
            > Mike
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8453 From: paul helms Date: 2/9/2005
            Subject: Re: baby
            3 weeks ish

            --- Colleen <alaskaicekubes@...> wrote:

            > we have one left out of 11 . the mother died we dont
            > know what happened
            > we didnt even know she was pregnant we only had her
            > a week what is the gestation for a mollie?
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: photo_muse
            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 7:42 PM
            > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: baby
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi Colleen!
            >
            > << we think its a molly we were not home when the
            > babies were born>>
            >
            > Oh, I've had those ... LOTS of those! <lol>
            >
            > The first ones I got, I didn't keep in a separate
            > tank ... I caught
            > as many as I could and put them into two floating
            > contraptions made
            > to protect the baby fish or eggs.
            > (http://leesaqpet.com/PICCAT/10255.htm) I fed them
            > (live) baby brine
            > shrimp, a liquid baby fry food and some tiny
            > pellet fry food. I had
            > so many grow up that I now have WAY too many
            > mollies!
            >
            > We stopped taking the babies out ... and we've
            > STILL had 8 babies
            > survive in the tank with all the other big fish!
            > <g> We had a devil
            > of a time getting them started, but once they
            > started making babies,
            > they haven't stopped!
            >
            > Good luck with your little one!
            >
            > Peggy :)
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it
            > when replying, thanks
            >
            >
            >
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8454 From: Lauri T Date: 2/9/2005
            Subject: water chemistry

            Hello

             

                        Just joined the group, and have looked through the archives today.

            I’ve also been doing a good bit of research elsewhere…..and I am a bit confused

            on how to address a conflict we have with a certain fish and the rest in our

            freshwater tank community.

             

                        First let me say that all of our fish are still very young, by all appearances

            seem quite healthy and well adjusted….but we made one fish purchase that really

            should be in a brackish environment with a sandy bottom.  It is the Dragon Goby –

            Gobioides broussonnetii (about 5”).  It naturally inhabits muddy bays and estuaries

            along the southern US states and the Gulf.  It was in a freshwater tank at the pet

            store.  But in my research, I am seeing that it would do better in brackish water.

             

                        I have been reading conflicting information about adding salt -  it is

            suggested that the goby will do fine with a 1% salt addition, and I was told the rest

            of the community would be ok with that – but then I read here in archives that salt

            should not be added to a freshwater community.  We are willing to make the

            necessary changes required for these fish –  and we already know we will eventually

            have to provide larger environments for most of them –  but I want to know all of my

            options before I go out and buy more equipment right now.

             

                        I would like to know if adding some salt to this tank is a possible option or if

            it’s not really necessary right now.  Since the goby has been in freshwater for at least

            1.5 month that I know of, how soon does he need to be transitioned?

             

            Here is the chemistry of my tank water today:                straight tap water:

            pH –                      7.8                                                       8.0

            hardness:              180                                                      140     

            alkaline buffering:   160                                                      160

            Nitrite:                      1                                                          0

            Nitrate:                     6                                                          5

            Ammonia:                .2

            Temp:  78 F

                                (how is the water harder after it is in the tank?)

             

                 Here are the other fish in the 55 gal – as I said, they are still really small right now.

            1 Ghost Knife fish – 5”            Apteronotus albifrons

            1 Golden Shark – 3”                Leptobarbus hoeveni    (also known as a Maroon Shark)

            1 Pangasius Catfish – 2”         Pangasius Sutchi

            1 Pictus Catfish – 2”               Pimelodus Pictus

            1 Plecostomus – 3”                Hypostomus plecostomus

            2 Bala Sharks – 2”                  Balantiocheilus melanpterus

            2 Clown Loaches – 1 ½”         Botia macracanthus

             

            As I said, they are all getting along extremely well right now, and we are maintaining the

            water regularly – it’s a fairly new tank and I test the water frequently – don’t quite

            understand how long the nitrogen cycle takes, but we did add 3 fish last Saturday. 

            We’ve done a 25% water change since then as well.

             

            One more thing, I have several live plants in this tank as well, and they are growing quite

            rapidly; the echinodorus bleheri has many shoots, and I have already cut and planted 7 of

            them, with more ready soon.  The red Ludwigia has many new leaves, and the anacharis

            also has new “shoots”, too.  The acorus is holding it’s own.   I have read that some live

            plants won’t live in a salted tank (?).

             

            There are several pieces of “basement” rock, and also several tubes for the knife fish and

            dragon fish, but all the fish play or sleep in them.  It’s not uncommon for the knife fish to

            be seen sleeping next to a loach in one, or the two loaches to sleep together.  The dragon

            is usually wedged next to a rock.

             

             So, that’s the set up…..my only real concern right now is for the welfare of the dragon fish.

             

                       Thanks for taking the time to read, hope someone can send me in the right direction.

                                                                                            Lauri T

                       

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8455 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/9/2005
            Subject: Nitrite Trouble, again
             
            I removed the nitrazorb and put the old carbon thing back in (I'd kept it in a plastic, ziploc bag).  Should I change water or just leave it alone?  How long should this take to rectify?  My nitrites were at .5 today, again.  They're not going up, but not declining, either.  Is this to be expected?  I'm feeding 1 flake once a week, and also 1 pellet for the frog.  Any other suggestions?  Ammonia and ph are still fine.
             
             
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8456 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/9/2005
            Subject: Sac River Fishing
            well i guess this is about Aquatic Life in general  :-)


            We fished with a local who targets Sturgeon in the Sac river. He said they catch them all the time. We launched from Contra Costa if that helps.  We did end up with a couple catfish in the 10-15 pound range.

            rob


            In a message dated 2/9/2005 3:14:32 AM US Eastern Standard Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:


            the sacramento river is a lot more famous for
            salmon...were you really going for sturgeon there???


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8457 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/9/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrite Trouble, again

            Leave the tank as it is. Do not do any water changes for a few weeks even if the nitrites remain there. This could take from 5 days to 3 weeks to rectify and once nitrite goes down, start feeding the fish regularly. Once you start feeding regularly, you will get to see nitrite again but please do not panic and do multiple water changes again. You will bring back the tank to the same stage where you are rite now if you panic. Let the bacteria develop slowly on its own which could take a couple of weeks more.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 09 February 2005 18:02
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrite Trouble, again

             

             

            I removed the nitrazorb and put the old carbon thing back in (I'd kept it in a plastic, ziploc bag).  Should I change water or just leave it alone?  How long should this take to rectify?  My nitrites were at .5 today, again.  They're not going up, but not declining, either.  Is this to be expected?  I'm feeding 1 flake once a week, and also 1 pellet for the frog.  Any other suggestions?  Ammonia and ph are still fine.

             

             



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8458 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/9/2005
            Subject: Re: water chemistry

            Lauri, I cannot really say about the specific goby as I don’t have any experience with it, but in my general experience most brackish fish that have been acclimatized to freshwater do fine in freshwater but maybe not for long. They can survive but may develop ingestion or similar problems with time so adding a bit of salt will help. Do not give it brackish water immediately but a bit of salt to start with and gradually increase it to a certain level. Brackish fish are capable of living in both freshwater and almost sea water for short periods of time.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Lauri T [mailto:aktahi@...]
            Sent: 09 February 2005 10:02
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] water chemistry

             

            Hello

             

                        Just joined the group, and have looked through the archives today.

            I’ve also been doing a good bit of research elsewhere…..and I am a bit confused

            on how to address a conflict we have with a certain fish and the rest in our

            freshwater tank community.

             

                        First let me say that all of our fish are still very young, by all appearances

            seem quite healthy and well adjusted….but we made one fish purchase that really

            should be in a brackish environment with a sandy bottom.  It is the Dragon Goby –

            Gobioides broussonnetii (about 5”).  It naturally inhabits muddy bays and estuaries

            along the southern US states and the Gulf.  It was in a freshwater tank at the pet

            store.  But in my research, I am seeing that it would do better in brackish water.

             

                        I have been reading conflicting information about adding salt -  it is

            suggested that the goby will do fine with a 1% salt addition, and I was told the rest

            of the community would be ok with that – but then I read here in archives that salt

            should not be added to a freshwater community.  We are willing to make the

            necessary changes required for these fish –  and we already know we will eventually

            have to provide larger environments for most of them –  but I want to know all of my

            options before I go out and buy more equipment right now.

             

                        I would like to know if adding some salt to this tank is a possible option or if

            it’s not really necessary right now.  Since the goby has been in freshwater for at least

            1.5 month that I know of, how soon does he need to be transitioned?

             

            Here is the chemistry of my tank water today:                straight tap water:

            pH –                      7.8                                                       8.0

            hardness:              180                                                      140     

            alkaline buffering:   160                                                      160

            Nitrite:                      1                                                          0

            Nitrate:                     6                                                          5

            Ammonia:                .2

            Temp:  78 F

                                (how is the water harder after it is in the tank?)

             

                 Here are the other fish in the 55 gal – as I said, they are still really small right now.

            1 Ghost Knife fish – 5”            Apteronotus albifrons

            1 Golden Shark – 3”                Leptobarbus hoeveni    (also known as a Maroon Shark)

            1 Pangasius Catfish – 2”         Pangasius Sutchi

            1 Pictus Catfish – 2”               Pimelodus Pictus

            1 Plecostomus – 3”                Hypostomus plecostomus

            2 Bala Sharks – 2”                  Balantiocheilus melanpterus

            2 Clown Loaches – 1 ½”         Botia macracanthus

             

            As I said, they are all getting along extremely well right now, and we are maintaining the

            water regularly – it’s a fairly new tank and I test the water frequently – don’t quite

            understand how long the nitrogen cycle takes, but we did add 3 fish last Saturday. 

            We’ve done a 25% water change since then as well.

             

            One more thing, I have several live plants in this tank as well, and they are growing quite

            rapidly; the echinodorus bleheri has many shoots, and I have already cut and planted 7 of

            them, with more ready soon.  The red Ludwigia has many new leaves, and the anacharis

            also has new “shoots”, too.  The acorus is holding it’s own.   I have read that some live

            plants won’t live in a salted tank (?).

             

            There are several pieces of “basement” rock, and also several tubes for the knife fish and

            dragon fish, but all the fish play or sleep in them.  It’s not uncommon for the knife fish to

            be seen sleeping next to a loach in one, or the two loaches to sleep together.  The dragon

            is usually wedged next to a rock.

             

             So, that’s the set up…..my only real concern right now is for the welfare of the dragon fish.

             

                       Thanks for taking the time to read, hope someone can send me in the right direction.

                                                                                            Lauri T

                       



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8459 From: photo_muse Date: 2/9/2005
            Subject: Re: baby
            Hi Colleen!

            << what is the gestation for a mollie?>>

            Gestations vary ... because after fertilization, the female can keep
            the fertilized eggs for a quite a while, spawning them out in
            batches! As one source puts it:

            "Female Mollies can deliver several batches of babies without a male
            in the aquarium. So once your female Molly is pregnant, you don't
            really need a male Molly for several months."
            http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/raising_baby_fish.htm

            More info:
            http://groups.msn.com/Breedingtropicalfish/breedingmollies.msnw

            Peggy :)
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8460 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/9/2005
            Subject: Re: Deenerz...
            In a message dated 2/9/2005 12:14:35 AM Pacific Standard Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:
            the sacramento river is a lot more famous for
            salmon...were you really going for sturgeon there???
            --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:
            It may be famous for Salmon but there are some monster sturgeon in that river.  Down river in the Delta area, my mother caught a 6 footer, I caught a 5 footer, and my mom then caught another 6 footer.  My dad and his fishing buddy used to cacth and release a lot of sturgeon and steelhead.  Of course now you cannot catch the larger sturgeon anymore.  They have to above a certain length as well as below a certain length.
            Mike
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8461 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/9/2005
            Subject: Pacific Coast Cichlid Association , 2/12/2005, 7:00 pm
            Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
            Pacific Coast Cichlid Association

            Saturday February 12, 2005
            7:00 pm - 10:00 pm
            This event repeats on the second Saturday of every month.

            Event Location: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Avenue in San Jose, California
            Notes:
            The PCCA meets every second Saturday of the month. Meetings are held a the Round Table Pizza parlor located at 4302 Moorpark Avenue in San Jose, California

            http://www.cichlidworld.com/

            February 12: Pam Chin
            Breeding Malawi Cichlids

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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8462 From: Colleen Date: 2/9/2005
            Subject: baby
            We have the baby in a small tank by itself  and i was wondering it needs water changed would it be ok to put the baby in with the other three?
             
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8463 From: paul helms Date: 2/9/2005
            Subject: Re: Deenerz...
            oh ok ...more like teh delta then ...gotcha
            --- Deenerz@... wrote:

            >
            > In a message dated 2/9/2005 12:14:35 AM Pacific
            > Standard Time,
            > wtfmorlok@... writes:
            >
            > the sacramento river is a lot more famous for
            > salmon...were you really going for sturgeon
            > there???
            > --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:
            >
            >
            > It may be famous for Salmon but there are some
            > monster sturgeon in that
            > river. Down river in the Delta area, my mother
            > caught a 6 footer, I caught a 5
            > footer, and my mom then caught another 6 footer. My
            > dad and his fishing buddy
            > used to cacth and release a lot of sturgeon and
            > steelhead. Of course now
            > you cannot catch the larger sturgeon anymore. They
            > have to above a certain
            > length as well as below a certain length.
            > Mike
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8464 From: paul helms Date: 2/9/2005
            Subject: Re: Sac River Fishing
            same thing...clser to the delta...i was thinking up
            river around shasta area..
            --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:

            > well i guess this is about Aquatic Life in general
            > :-)
            >
            >
            > We fished with a local who targets Sturgeon in the
            > Sac river. He said they
            > catch them all the time. We launched from Contra
            > Costa if that helps. We did
            > end up with a couple catfish in the 10-15 pound
            > range.
            >
            > rob
            >
            >
            > In a message dated 2/9/2005 3:14:32 AM US Eastern
            > Standard Time,
            > wtfmorlok@... writes:
            >
            >
            > > the sacramento river is a lot more famous for
            > > salmon...were you really going for sturgeon
            > there???
            >
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8465 From: Lauri T Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: RE water chemistry

            Thank you Nim,

                        for your response.   I looked up “ingestion”, and couldn’t find

            anything related to fish illness - could you describe that condition?

             

                                    Thanks so much

                                               Lauri T

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8466 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Aquarium salt to fix nitrites?
            A couple of days ago, Nim said you can use aquarium salt to manage the
            nitrites... I havn't heard of this before, does it work at all - what do
            you others think?

            =Nick


            > Message: 5
            > Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 19:32:52 -0000
            > From: "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@...>
            > Subject: RE: Nitrite Update
            >
            > ... Firstly, I must say that a cycling tank should face as minimum
            changes as possible and should be kept as stable as
            > possible. This includes avoiding water changes.
            >
            > ...
            > 4rth, Nitrates are different and Nitrites are different. Nitrites are
            the more toxic ones, Nitrates start to get toxic at high
            > readings of 40-60ppm. Nitrites are toxic even in traces. To prevent
            nitrite poisoning, you can add 1 tea spoon of aquarium
            > salt per 5 gallons of water but remember when doing water changes and
            topping up water that salt does not evaporate. If
            > you change water, then add salt only for the amount of water
            changed.
            > Nim
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8467 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: RE water chemistry

            Lauri, I actually meant digestive problems like stringy poo or diarrhea or even bloat and constipation. I have only heard about these and not experienced my self but these are results of long term exposure of freshwater to brackish fish. Their body is designed in a different way then the freshwater fish and hence long term (few years) it starts to behave erratically or it acclimatizes accordingly.

             

            There was a scientific study done on bull sharks that have been found over 100 miles inside the amazon and the way their excretion and osmotic regulation works prevents them from suffering these effects when in fresh water. You might have to search the net for this as it was almost 2-3 yrs ago when I read all that.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Lauri T [mailto:aktahi@...]
            Sent: 10 February 2005 09:03
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] RE water chemistry

             

            Thank you Nim,

                        for your response.   I looked up “ingestion”, and couldn’t find

            anything related to fish illness - could you describe that condition?

             

                                    Thanks so much

                                               Lauri T



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8468 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: Aquarium salt to fix nitrites?

            Nicolas,

             

            Salt not to manage Nitrites. Addition of salt does help de-stress the fish and can help prevent a dangerous situation that arise form nitrite poisoning called Brown blood disease.

             

            I certainly do not intend to start a debate again on the use of salt in freshwater tanks as there is too much information on the net and everything contradicts everything as well. Either people swear by using salt in freshwater or they swear at using salt in fresh water. To some people it does not have any concern and everyone can believe what ever they want to J freedom of belief.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Nicolas Munro [mailto:nicolas.munro@...]
            Sent: 10 February 2005 22:52
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium salt to fix nitrites?

             


            A couple of days ago, Nim said you can use aquarium salt to manage the
            nitrites... I havn't heard of this before, does it work at all - what do
            you others think?

            =Nick


            > Message: 5        
            >    Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 19:32:52 -0000
            >    From: " Nimish Mathur " <nimmat4@...>
            > Subject: RE: Nitrite Update
            >
            > ... Firstly, I must say that a cycling tank should face as minimum
            changes as possible and should be kept as stable as
            >  possible. This includes avoiding water changes.
            >
            >  ...
            > 4rth, Nitrates are different and Nitrites are different. Nitrites are
            the more toxic ones, Nitrates start to get toxic at high
            > readings of 40-60ppm. Nitrites are toxic even in traces. To prevent
            nitrite poisoning, you can add  1 tea spoon of aquarium
            > salt per 5 gallons of water but remember when doing water changes and
            topping up water that salt does not evaporate. If
            >  you change water, then add salt only for the amount of water
            changed.
            > Nim





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8469 From: Amalthea Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Photos
            Hi all! Could everyone on the list who's posted photos please go
            through their folders and see if there are any you can purge? We're
            running low on space and perhaps some of you would like to get rid of
            some old ones to make room for the new!
            Amalthea
            Get em' while they're cheap!
            Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the
            Basement....
            http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8470 From: Aaron Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: baby
            how big/old is the fry? If it is small enough to fit in the mouths of
            the other fih, it will. Fry need lots of good hiding spaces.

            The smaller the environment the less stable it will be. The fact that
            there is only a single small fish is good, however regular
            maintenance is still needed. For example, say a 1 gallon bowl change
            10% daily, a 10gal. tank maybe 15% 2 - 3 times week, a larger 55 g
            aquarium up to 20% weekly. I know some people with really big systems
            over 100 gallons and small fish loads with multipe types of
            filtration, may only do monthly water changes.

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Colleen" <alaskaicekubes@a...>
            wrote:
            > We have the baby in a small tank by itself and i was wondering it
            needs water changed would it be ok to put the baby in with the other
            three?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8471 From: jim Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
            ive scored a number of used tanks at auction, garage sale , flea
            markets,, i would never recommend using bleach on it ,, i check em
            to hold water with no leaks ,, drain it out ,, use lots of salt in
            enough water to make a paste ,, and scrubb it with that only ,,
            scrubbing is done ,, all the salt rinses away ,, my opinion=
            bleach / chlorine put into a tank soaks into the sealant and is a
            bitch to get out = prolongs the new tank cycle time = if the tank is
            dry when you recieve it = parasites are almost certainly dead =
            subsequently , when you fill it to check leaks , enough
            chlorine/chloramine in the tap water to kill any residual algae and
            such ,, after the check for leaks , put in fresh water and a good
            dechlorinator then seed the tank with substrate / ornaments from a
            known cycled tank, even just water from a tank that is getting a
            weekly change will transport bacteria into the new tank and you are
            up and running in no time flat




            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Anne <md_gustoby@y...> wrote:
            > Hi, While wandering the local farmers market today I
            > came accross a 10-15 gal. aquarium the guy was selling
            > for %5.00 that I picked up for my grandsons white
            > cloud minnows. It came with light hood, filter (which
            > I tossed), gravel-tossed that too, a heater (still in
            > the box, juries out on that)
            > - and water(rain) so I know it holds water ok. I'd
            > like some advice on giving this a thorough cleaning.
            > Thanks
            > Anne
            >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
            > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8472 From: Patrick mn Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: cleaning an old aquarium
                This theory of bleach has been told lots of times by lots of people.  I don't believe it to be true at all.  I don't think enough soaks into the seals to cause any problem, and if it did it would be diluted so much when it is filled up there will be no effects possible.  Bleach is completely safe when the tank is rinsed out several times with water and an overdose of chlorine remover.  It doesn't hurt to be safe, but bleach has a proven record of being safe when used properly.
             
            Patrick, the American Fish Guy
             
            Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
            About my tanks:  
            29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
            -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
            -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
            -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
            10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
            -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
            -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
            -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
            -------Original Message-------
            ive scored a number of used tanks at auction, garage sale , flea
            markets,, i would never recommend using bleach on it ,, i check em
            to hold water with no leaks ,, drain it out ,, use lots of salt in
            enough water to make a paste ,, and scrubb it with that only ,,
            scrubbing is done ,, all the salt rinses away ,, my opinion=
            bleach / chlorine put into a tank soaks into the sealant and is a
            bitch to get out = prolongs the new tank cycle time = if the tank is
            dry when you recieve it = parasites are almost certainly dead =
            subsequently , when you fill it to check leaks , enough
            chlorine/chloramine in the tap water to kill any residual algae and
            such ,, after the check for leaks , put in fresh water and a good
            dechlorinator then seed the tank with substrate / ornaments from a
            known cycled tank, even just water from a tank that is getting a
            weekly change will transport bacteria into the new tank and you are
            up and running in no time flat
            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8474 From: Cosmo Knight Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: water chemistry
            Here is a link to the dragon goby:
            http://www.aquariacentral.com/species/db.cgi?
            db=fresh&uid=default&ID=0488&view_records=1 If the link
            doesn't work copy and paste it into your web browser. They grow
            large and like brackish water. This link will tell more.

            Cosmo

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lauri T" <aktahi@3...> wrote:
            > Hello
            >
            >
            >
            > Just joined the group, and have looked through the
            archives today.
            >
            > I've also been doing a good bit of research elsewhere…..and
            I am a
            bit confused
            >
            > on how to address a conflict we have with a certain fish and the
            rest in our
            >
            > freshwater tank community.
            >
            >
            >
            > First let me say that all of our fish are still very
            young, by all
            > appearances
            >
            > seem quite healthy and well adjusted….but we made one fish
            purchase
            that really
            >
            > should be in a brackish environment with a sandy bottom. It is the
            Dragon Goby
            > –
            >
            > Gobioides broussonnetii (about 5"). It naturally inhabits
            muddy
            bays and
            > estuaries
            >
            > along the southern US states and the Gulf. It was in a freshwater
            tank at the
            > pet
            >
            > store. But in my research, I am seeing that it would do better in
            brackish
            > water.
            >
            >
            >
            > I have been reading conflicting information about
            adding salt - it
            > is
            >
            > suggested that the goby will do fine with a 1% salt addition, and I
            was told the
            > rest
            >
            > of the community would be ok with that – but then I read here
            in
            archives that
            > salt
            >
            > should not be added to a freshwater community. We are willing to
            make the
            >
            > necessary changes required for these fish – and we already
            know we
            will
            > eventually
            >
            > have to provide larger environments for most of them – but I
            want
            to know all
            > of my
            >
            > options before I go out and buy more equipment right now.
            >
            >
            >
            > I would like to know if adding some salt to this tank
            is a possible
            > option or if
            >
            > it's not really necessary right now. Since the goby has been
            in
            freshwater for
            > at least
            >
            > 1.5 month that I know of, how soon does he need to be transitioned?
            >
            >
            >
            > Here is the chemistry of my tank water today:
            straight tap water:
            >
            > pH – 7.8
            > 8.0
            >
            > hardness: 180
            > 140
            >
            > alkaline buffering: 160
            > 160
            >
            > Nitrite: 1
            > 0
            >
            > Nitrate: 6
            > 5
            >
            > Ammonia: .2
            >
            > Temp: 78 F
            >
            > (how is the water harder after it is in the
            tank?)
            >
            >
            >
            > Here are the other fish in the 55 gal – as I said, they
            are
            still really
            > small right now.
            >
            > 1 Ghost Knife fish – 5" Apteronotus albifrons
            >
            > 1 Golden Shark – 3" Leptobarbus hoeveni
            (also
            known as a
            > Maroon Shark)
            >
            > 1 Pangasius Catfish – 2" Pangasius Sutchi
            >
            > 1 Pictus Catfish – 2" Pimelodus Pictus
            >
            > 1 Plecostomus – 3" Hypostomus plecostomus
            >
            > 2 Bala Sharks – 2" Balantiocheilus
            melanpterus
            >
            > 2 Clown Loaches – 1 ½" Botia macracanthus
            >
            >
            >
            > As I said, they are all getting along extremely well right now, and
            we are
            > maintaining the
            >
            > water regularly – it's a fairly new tank and I test the
            water
            frequently – don't
            > quite
            >
            > understand how long the nitrogen cycle takes, but we did add 3 fish
            last
            > Saturday.
            >
            > We've done a 25% water change since then as well.
            >
            >
            >
            > One more thing, I have several live plants in this tank as well,
            and they are
            > growing quite
            >
            > rapidly; the echinodorus bleheri has many shoots, and I have
            already cut and
            > planted 7 of
            >
            > them, with more ready soon. The red Ludwigia has many new leaves,
            and the
            > anacharis
            >
            > also has new "shoots", too. The acorus is holding it's
            own. I
            have read that
            > some live
            >
            > plants won't live in a salted tank (?).
            >
            >
            >
            > There are several pieces of "basement" rock, and also
            several tubes
            for the
            > knife fish and
            >
            > dragon fish, but all the fish play or sleep in them. It's not
            uncommon for the
            > knife fish to
            >
            > be seen sleeping next to a loach in one, or the two loaches to
            sleep together.
            > The dragon
            >
            > is usually wedged next to a rock.
            >
            >
            >
            > So, that's the set up…..my only real concern right now is
            for the
            welfare of
            > the dragon fish.
            >
            >
            >
            > Thanks for taking the time to read, hope someone can
            send me in the
            > right direction.
            >
            >
            > Lauri T
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8475 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
            Hello,
            I just noticed all my fish swimming at the top of the tank even the
            cory cats, so I started checking everything and there temp is done to
            74-76 it's usually at 80. The heater won't stay on you can mess with
            it and it starts to get warm than the light goes out and never comes
            back on. It's a 20 gallon tank but all I have for now is a old one I
            had in a 10 gallon tank I put it in there but don't want it to hot and
            have it fry the fish, It has a lower and higher turning knob but it
            just keeps spinning I turned it on till the light came on but a few
            seconds later it's off, does that mean the temp on the heater is the
            same in the tank? do I keep turning it on everytime the light goes out
            until the tank is about 80 or is that all wrong please help.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8476 From: Colleen Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: baby
            its a small tank that i first had for my betta no filteration has food at the bottom making it messy it needs to be completely cleaned out .
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Aaron
            Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 2:43 PM
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: baby


            how big/old is the fry? If it is small enough to fit in the mouths of
            the other fih, it will. Fry need lots of good hiding spaces.

            The smaller the environment the less stable it will be. The fact that
            there is only a single small fish is good, however regular
            maintenance is still needed. For example, say a 1 gallon bowl change
            10% daily, a 10gal. tank maybe 15% 2 - 3 times week, a larger 55 g
            aquarium up to 20% weekly. I know some people with really big systems
            over 100 gallons and small fish loads with multipe types of
            filtration, may only do monthly water changes.

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Colleen" <alaskaicekubes@a...>
            wrote:
            > We have the baby in a small tank by itself  and i was wondering it
            needs water changed would it be ok to put the baby in with the other
            three?





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8477 From: Colleen Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: baby
            the baby is two weeks old.
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Aaron
            Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 2:43 PM
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: baby


            how big/old is the fry? If it is small enough to fit in the mouths of
            the other fih, it will. Fry need lots of good hiding spaces.

            The smaller the environment the less stable it will be. The fact that
            there is only a single small fish is good, however regular
            maintenance is still needed. For example, say a 1 gallon bowl change
            10% daily, a 10gal. tank maybe 15% 2 - 3 times week, a larger 55 g
            aquarium up to 20% weekly. I know some people with really big systems
            over 100 gallons and small fish loads with multipe types of
            filtration, may only do monthly water changes.

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Colleen" <alaskaicekubes@a...>
            wrote:
            > We have the baby in a small tank by itself  and i was wondering it
            needs water changed would it be ok to put the baby in with the other
            three?





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8478 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
            In a message dated 2/10/2005 8:56:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, CK147@... writes:
            Hello,
            I just noticed all my fish swimming at the top of the tank even the
            cory cats, so I started checking everything and there temp is done to
            74-76 it's usually at 80. The heater won't stay on you can mess with
            it and it starts to get warm than the light goes out and never comes
            back on. It's a 20 gallon tank but all
            While not ideal, 74-76 degrees should not make them swim at the top. 
            My bet is something like low oxygen?  Do you have enough surface agitation?  Either air pump, or filter return?
            Do you have a test kit for ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates etc?
            Regular water changes?
             
             
            Mike
             
             
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8479 From: paul helms Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
            80 is too high for the fish you mentioned...unless you
            have discuss, there is absolutely no reason to have
            the temp that high...unless treating for ick. 78 is
            the top that it would need to be and 74 atthe lower
            end, but even 72 is fine. most glass thermomteres
            have a green zone on them, which is where the temp
            should ideally be, and a yellow zone on each end of
            teh green where it is tolerable.
            paul
            --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

            >
            > Hello,
            > I just noticed all my fish swimming at the top of
            > the tank even the
            > cory cats, so I started checking everything and
            > there temp is done to
            > 74-76 it's usually at 80. The heater won't stay on
            > you can mess with
            > it and it starts to get warm than the light goes out
            > and never comes
            > back on. It's a 20 gallon tank but all I have for
            > now is a old one I
            > had in a 10 gallon tank I put it in there but don't
            > want it to hot and
            > have it fry the fish, It has a lower and higher
            > turning knob but it
            > just keeps spinning I turned it on till the light
            > came on but a few
            > seconds later it's off, does that mean the temp on
            > the heater is the
            > same in the tank? do I keep turning it on everytime
            > the light goes out
            > until the tank is about 80 or is that all wrong
            > please help.
            >
            >
            >
            >





            __________________________________
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8480 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
            First off chill out ...  Pun intended....

            Temps as low as 70*F  shouldn't have bad effects on your fish unless they are discuss. But do try and keep them above 74*F. The fish are probally a little stressed out in the temp change but it isn't that bad of a swing. 3-5 degree water change slowly and gradually isn't that bad

            I am sure somone will take a few more educated guesses then I could.

            The turn knob on your old heater( 10 gallon ) sounds like its stripped out, take and pull the knob off. You should be able to turn the heater up or down without the knob on it.. Hopefully this will be all that is required.
            Your smaller heater might NOT cycle( turning on and off )trying to keep the water at such a higher temperature, I'd lower your expectations to 75*f  this is more of a substainable temp for a smalelr heater, plus if your heater does stick you have a few degrees to play with until your fish are above there comfort level.


            If you can't the best bet would be to buy a new heater. Luckily your 20 gallon tank doesn't require a very big heater. You should be able to get away with a 50watt heater unless your tank is close to a cold drafty area ( window, outside door) then it will require a 75W or 100 watt heater.


            best of luck
            robert
            Indiana


            In a message dated 2/10/2005 11:56:01 PM US Eastern Standard Time, CK147@... writes:


            Hello,
            I just noticed all my fish swimming at the top of the tank even the
            cory cats, so I started checking everything and there temp is done to
            74-76 it's usually at 80. The heater won't stay on you can mess with
            it and it starts to get warm than the light goes out and never comes
            back on. It's a 20 gallon tank but all I have for now is a old one I
            had in a 10 gallon tank I put it in there but don't want it to hot and
            have it fry the fish, It has a lower and higher turning knob but it
            just keeps spinning I turned it on till the light came on but a few
            seconds later it's off, does that mean the temp on the heater is the
            same in the tank? do I keep turning it on everytime the light goes out
            until the tank is about 80 or is that all wrong please help.



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8481 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
            I figured they where trying to find the warmer water. They aren't all
            the way at the top like sucking the top of the water they are about 1
            to 3 inches down but there all there. I only have a filter but the
            water is still pushing through it although a little slower looking
            I'll have to do a water change tomorrow and shake the filter pad. I
            don't have a test kit so I don't know all those things. I do weekly
            couple gallon water changes only because I have to top off the tank so
            much. I gravel vac the bottom every 4 weeks or so.
            >
            > While not ideal, 74-76 degrees should not make them swim at the top.
            > My bet is something like low oxygen? Do you have enough surface
            agitation?
            > Either air pump, or filter return?
            > Do you have a test kit for ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates etc?
            > Regular water changes?
            >
            >
            > Mike
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8482 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
            Not sure by what you mean - "it just keeps spinning". That knob is
            the adjustment knob for the thermostat and it supposed to turn to
            adjust it. If it is very loose to the point that it just turns
            loosely and does nothing it may be defective, in which case I would
            temporarily use the heater you had in a ten gallon tank (unless you
            have fish in that tank) until you can replace that 20 gallon heater.
            Normally, you would turn the knob until the light comes on; when the
            light goes off that means it has reached the temperature that its set
            at and will go out at that point. If you then want it warmer, you
            must turn the knob again to a higher setting and watch it until it
            goes out again -- at that point you re-read the temperature to see
            what the thermostat is now set for, etc. First of all, if the fish
            are suddenly all at the surface, it is not because the temperature
            has dropped 4 degrees. Better check your water parameters for
            ammonia, nitrite, or some oxygen depleting situation such as excess
            food fouling the water. Also, 80o is really unnecessarily high; 76o
            (78o at the most) is just fine for most fish. Ray
            \
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mommy2acdhsurvivor" <CK147@H...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hello,
            > I just noticed all my fish swimming at the top of the tank even the
            > cory cats, so I started checking everything and there temp is done
            to
            > 74-76 it's usually at 80. The heater won't stay on you can mess with
            > it and it starts to get warm than the light goes out and never comes
            > back on. It's a 20 gallon tank but all I have for now is a old one I
            > had in a 10 gallon tank I put it in there but don't want it to hot
            and
            > have it fry the fish, It has a lower and higher turning knob but it
            > just keeps spinning I turned it on till the light came on but a few
            > seconds later it's off, does that mean the temp on the heater is the
            > same in the tank? do I keep turning it on everytime the light goes
            out
            > until the tank is about 80 or is that all wrong please help.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8483 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
            The heater is the type that you can't change the temp you just plug it
            in and it sets it's self and 80 is what it usually is at where it
            usually has it. It doesn't have a dial or anything. I have guppies, a
            few endlers, 2 danios, 2 cory cats and a frog. Yeah that's the
            thermometer that I have.


            > 80 is too high for the fish you mentioned...unless you
            > have discuss, there is absolutely no reason to have
            > the temp that high...unless treating for ick. 78 is
            > the top that it would need to be and 74 atthe lower
            > end, but even 72 is fine. most glass thermomteres
            > have a green zone on them, which is where the temp
            > should ideally be, and a yellow zone on each end of
            > teh green where it is tolerable.
            > paul
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8484 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
            With that small heater at least the one part of the tank will be warm
            I guess, I plan on buying a new heater but it will be a few days
            before I can get to town and buy a new one. I will try taking it off
            but it does make the light come on when I turn it so I'm not sure if
            it is stripped. No it's against a wall in our dining area. No windows
            or drafts. Thanks I hope they are ok for a few days.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8485 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
                I keep my tank at 80° all the time to prevent disease.  But I'm a history teacher, not a vet, so I have no idea how well it is working. :)  But like you said, 74-78 is the normal range for most tropicals.
             
            Patrick, the American Fish Guy
             
            Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
            About my tanks:  
            29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
            -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
            -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
            -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
            10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
            -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
            -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
            -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
            -------Original Message-------
            80 is too high for the fish you mentioned...unless you
            have discuss, there is absolutely no reason to have
            the temp that high...unless treating for ick.  78 is
            the top that it would need to be and 74 atthe lower
            end, but even 72 is fine.  most glass thermomteres
            have a green zone on them, which is where the temp
            should ideally be, and a yellow zone on each end of
            teh green where it is tolerable.
            paul
            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8486 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: Aquarium salt to fix nitrites?
            Nick, Salt does not manage the nitrites, but will negate its toxic
            effects. Definitely a worthwhile addition if you want to prevent
            nitrite poisoning. Ray
            \
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas Munro"
            <nicolas.munro@d...> wrote:
            >
            > A couple of days ago, Nim said you can use aquarium salt to manage
            the
            > nitrites... I havn't heard of this before, does it work at all -
            what do
            > you others think?
            >
            > =Nick
            >
            >
            > > Message: 5
            > > Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 19:32:52 -0000
            > > From: "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
            > > Subject: RE: Nitrite Update
            > >
            > > ... Firstly, I must say that a cycling tank should face as minimum
            > changes as possible and should be kept as stable as
            > > possible. This includes avoiding water changes.
            > >
            > > ...
            > > 4rth, Nitrates are different and Nitrites are different. Nitrites
            are
            > the more toxic ones, Nitrates start to get toxic at high
            > > readings of 40-60ppm. Nitrites are toxic even in traces. To
            prevent
            > nitrite poisoning, you can add 1 tea spoon of aquarium
            > > salt per 5 gallons of water but remember when doing water changes
            and
            > topping up water that salt does not evaporate. If
            > > you change water, then add salt only for the amount of water
            > changed.
            > > Nim
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8487 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
            It still works because it does make the light come on. Ok that's what
            I thought about how the heater light works with the temp in the tank.
            I have a 10 gallon with a heater but it has like 20 guppy fry in it.
            The heater I found down stairs from when I had a tank like 5 years
            ago. Not sure if you'll read the other message but the heater that
            died didn't have any dials or anything you just put it in tank, plug
            it in and it brings it's self up to temp (it came with the tank free
            at a garage sale) So I don't know what brand or anything. IT's been in
            there for over a year so and no fish deaths (by heat that is a few got
            eatin by a catfish I have) (Who is no longer in the tank). THe aren't
            actually at the top gasping for air they are like 1-3 inches from the
            top although now there sleeping. Also don't have the test kits but
            will do a water change tomorrow it's already 12:30 and I'm pooped.


            > Not sure by what you mean - "it just keeps spinning". That knob is
            > the adjustment knob for the thermostat and it supposed to turn to
            > adjust it. If it is very loose to the point that it just turns
            > loosely and does nothing it may be defective, in which case I would
            > temporarily use the heater you had in a ten gallon tank (unless you
            > have fish in that tank) until you can replace that 20 gallon heater.
            > Normally, you would turn the knob until the light comes on; when the
            > light goes off that means it has reached the temperature that its set
            > at and will go out at that point. If you then want it warmer, you
            > must turn the knob again to a higher setting and watch it until it
            > goes out again -- at that point you re-read the temperature to see
            > what the thermostat is now set for, etc. First of all, if the fish
            > are suddenly all at the surface, it is not because the temperature
            > has dropped 4 degrees. Better check your water parameters for
            > ammonia, nitrite, or some oxygen depleting situation such as excess
            > food fouling the water. Also, 80o is really unnecessarily high; 76o
            > (78o at the most) is just fine for most fish. Ray
            > \
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8488 From: photo_muse Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: baby
            Hi Colleen!

            << the baby is two weeks old.>>

            Aaron's point was that what matters is how big the fry is. If it is
            big enough to fit in your other fishes' mouths (regardless of the
            fry's age), it will be in danger of being eaten! However, if there
            are lots of plants and rocks and stuff for the fry to hide in, it
            *might* be okay. (Or if your fish don't think it looks like a snack!)

            Peggy :)
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8489 From: Colleen Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: peggy
            Peggy,
            Then what about the tank its needs a total water change?
             
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8490 From: Lauri T Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: water chemistry

            Thank you, Nim,  for furthering clarifying –  I’ve been continuing to look

            around, and I have decided to set up a brackish tank soon.  Since the goby

            will be ok for a bit, I think I am going to set up a biotope tank for it.

             

            Thanks to you, Cosmo, as well, for the link – I’ve been there before, but

            went ahead and registered today.

             

                                    Lauri T

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8491 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/10/2005
            Subject: Re: water chemistry

            Lauri,

             

            Not 100% related but worth a reading:

            http://www.elasmo-research.org/education/topics/p_fw_rays.htm

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Lauri T [mailto:aktahi@...]
            Sent: 11 February 2005 07:40
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: water chemistry

             

            Thank you, Nim,  for furthering clarifying –  I’ve been continuing to look

            around, and I have decided to set up a brackish tank soon.  Since the goby

            will be ok for a bit, I think I am going to set up a biotope tank for it.

             

            Thanks to you, Cosmo, as well, for the link – I’ve been there before, but

            went ahead and registered today.

             

                                    Lauri T



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8492 From: paul helms Date: 2/11/2005
            Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
            pat,
            what grade do you teach again?
            and what was your history capstone, or specialty, or
            option, etc
            --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
            <patrickmn1@...> wrote:

            > I keep my tank at 80� all the time to prevent
            > disease. But I'm a
            > history teacher, not a vet, so I have no idea how
            > well it is working. :)
            > But like you said, 74-78 is the normal range for
            > most tropicals.
            >
            > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
            >
            > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
            > Cycle.
            > Nitrogen Cycle :
            > http://americanfishguy.tripod.com/nitrogencycle.html
            > About my tanks:
            > 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
            > -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons
            > and 3 black neons, 2
            > skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female
            > betta, and 1 paradise gourami
            >
            > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
            > banana plants, java ferns,
            > hornwort, and amazon swords.
            > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
            > 30-60 power filter.
            > 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
            > -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
            > -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus,
            > amazon sword.
            > -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain
            > gravel, Regent 10-15 power
            > filter.
            > -------Original Message-------
            > 80 is too high for the fish you mentioned...unless
            > you
            > have discuss, there is absolutely no reason to have
            > the temp that high...unless treating for ick. 78 is
            > the top that it would need to be and 74 atthe lower
            > end, but even 72 is fine. most glass thermomteres
            > have a green zone on them, which is where the temp
            > should ideally be, and a yellow zone on each end of
            > teh green where it is tolerable.
            > paul




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8493 From: paul helms Date: 2/11/2005
            Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
            the fish you listed would actually do fine without a
            heater.....everything but the cori cats can do without
            one all together that is. i have bred coris that were
            in an unheated 55 gallon planted ugf tank with not
            external filters. the tank was closer to high sixties
            in temp all the time
            paul
            --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

            >
            > The heater is the type that you can't change the
            > temp you just plug it
            > in and it sets it's self and 80 is what it usually
            > is at where it
            > usually has it. It doesn't have a dial or anything.
            > I have guppies, a
            > few endlers, 2 danios, 2 cory cats and a frog. Yeah
            > that's the
            > thermometer that I have.
            >
            >
            > > 80 is too high for the fish you mentioned...unless
            > you
            > > have discuss, there is absolutely no reason to
            > have
            > > the temp that high...unless treating for ick. 78
            > is
            > > the top that it would need to be and 74 atthe
            > lower
            > > end, but even 72 is fine. most glass thermomteres
            > > have a green zone on them, which is where the temp
            > > should ideally be, and a yellow zone on each end
            > of
            > > teh green where it is tolerable.
            > > paul
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8494 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/11/2005
            Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
            Okay, now I understand that its the 20 gallon heater that doesn't
            have an adjustment knob (guess it was worth the price - zilch). Now,
            as long as you have aeration and/or filtration (which you should
            have), your water will be circulating. So, the 10 gallon heater will
            not just heat one small area, as you suggest, but will heat the whole
            tank although maybe not to 78o. For this morning's agenda, you
            should take a sample (in a clean jar) of the tank water out before
            you do the water change and then bring it down to your LFS as soon as
            you can (while you're going for a new heater), after making the water
            change. Have them test it for Ammonia and Nitrites especially to see
            where you are/were to get an idea of your water parameters. Pick up
            these test kits for your home use (they're always useful), but
            especially if the water testing bad. A pH test kit is handy as well,
            although that's not your immediate problem. What about excess food
            fouling the water? You haven't said anything about that, unless I
            missed it. If the water is not circulating, then its possible the
            fish are seeking a warmer layer of water nearer the top, as you were
            thinking. How cool is the room? Do you have a filter or airstone in
            there that would ciculate the water?Ray
            \
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mommy2acdhsurvivor" <CK147@H...>
            wrote:
            >
            > It still works because it does make the light come on. Ok that's
            what
            > I thought about how the heater light works with the temp in the
            tank.
            > I have a 10 gallon with a heater but it has like 20 guppy fry in it.
            > The heater I found down stairs from when I had a tank like 5 years
            > ago. Not sure if you'll read the other message but the heater that
            > died didn't have any dials or anything you just put it in tank, plug
            > it in and it brings it's self up to temp (it came with the tank free
            > at a garage sale) So I don't know what brand or anything. IT's been
            in
            > there for over a year so and no fish deaths (by heat that is a few
            got
            > eatin by a catfish I have) (Who is no longer in the tank). THe
            aren't
            > actually at the top gasping for air they are like 1-3 inches from
            the
            > top although now there sleeping. Also don't have the test kits but
            > will do a water change tomorrow it's already 12:30 and I'm pooped.
            >
            >
            > > Not sure by what you mean - "it just keeps spinning". That knob
            is
            > > the adjustment knob for the thermostat and it supposed to turn to
            > > adjust it. If it is very loose to the point that it just turns
            > > loosely and does nothing it may be defective, in which case I
            would
            > > temporarily use the heater you had in a ten gallon tank (unless
            you
            > > have fish in that tank) until you can replace that 20 gallon
            heater.
            > > Normally, you would turn the knob until the light comes on; when
            the
            > > light goes off that means it has reached the temperature that its
            set
            > > at and will go out at that point. If you then want it warmer,
            you
            > > must turn the knob again to a higher setting and watch it until
            it
            > > goes out again -- at that point you re-read the temperature to
            see
            > > what the thermostat is now set for, etc. First of all, if the
            fish
            > > are suddenly all at the surface, it is not because the
            temperature
            > > has dropped 4 degrees. Better check your water parameters for
            > > ammonia, nitrite, or some oxygen depleting situation such as
            excess
            > > food fouling the water. Also, 80o is really unnecessarily high;
            76o
            > > (78o at the most) is just fine for most fish.
            Ray
            > > \
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8495 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/11/2005
            Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
                Still looking for a school that needs a history teacher now, but I am going to start substitute teaching as soon as the background search clears the school board.  I'm secondary history, 7-12.  I'm not sure what a capstone is.  We have a very different program from people in your side of the country.  I just had to take general requirement, education, and history courses, then student teach in a middle and high school and then graduate.  I have to pass one test to be certified in government.
                To keep it on fish: I didn't have any classes about fishkeeping, except the time in bio lab where we did an experiment to get bettas to flare at little plastic fish.  That was stupid. :)
             
            Patrick
            -------Original Message-------
            pat,
            what grade do you teach again?
            and what was your history capstone, or specialty, or
            option, etc
            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8496 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/11/2005
            Subject: Waterchanges used to be RE: Peggy
            If you think it needs a total waterchange then do a total waterchange. If you think you can get away with a partial waterchange with a good vaccum of the gravel then do that. As far as the baby put it in a coffee cup/bowl until you are done with your waterchange.. Just make sure you use water from your tank ( one your cleaning )

            Once the tank is clean enough for your liking, Just fill up your tank with water from another tank,or partially fill it from another tank. This will keep your water and temp pretty close to where it was before. so in the long run you will be doing 2 waterchanges.

            Its not really that hard once you get a system down.

            My 2cents....
            rob
            NE Indiana


            In a message dated 2/11/2005 2:24:54 AM US Eastern Standard Time, alaskaicekubes@... writes:


            Then what about the tank its needs a total water change?




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8497 From: paul helms Date: 2/11/2005
            Subject: Re: Frozen fish!!!!!!!!! HELP
            lol...
            i was just curious.
            In CA we have to get a bachelors degree before
            starting a one year credential program,. i am
            graduating in june with my BA in liberal studies, and
            my option is history (basically a minor) focus on U.S.
            To get into the Credential program we have to pass a
            really difficult state test and a really easy state
            test. i am going for primary education, and hopefully
            i can maintain an aquarium in the class room.
            paul
            --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
            <patrickmn1@...> wrote:

            > Still looking for a school that needs a history
            > teacher now, but I am
            > going to start substitute teaching as soon as the
            > background search clears
            > the school board. I'm secondary history, 7-12. I'm
            > not sure what a
            > capstone is. We have a very different program from
            > people in your side of
            > the country. I just had to take general
            > requirement, education, and history
            > courses, then student teach in a middle and high
            > school and then graduate.
            > I have to pass one test to be certified in
            > government.
            > To keep it on fish: I didn't have any classes
            > about fishkeeping, except
            > the time in bio lab where we did an experiment to
            > get bettas to flare at
            > little plastic fish. That was stupid. :)
            >
            > Patrick
            > -------Original Message-------
            > pat,
            > what grade do you teach again?
            > and what was your history capstone, or specialty, or
            > option, etc




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8498 From: Lauri T Date: 2/11/2005
            Subject: Re: water chemistry

            Thanks Nim,  that was a great article, and I understand what it means

            in regards to my situation.

             

            Have you ever transitioned a fish to a different water type before?

            Lauri

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8499 From: photo_muse Date: 2/11/2005
            Subject: Re: Waterchanges used to be RE: Peggy
            It's Colleen who has a baby fish by itself in a little tank. I have
            six mollie babies hanging out in my 55 gallon! <g> They present no
            water changing problems.

            Peggy :)
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8500 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/11/2005
            Subject: Re: Plant Care
            yeah it is a black ghost fish, some people have told me it is not aggressive but tonght I found a neon tetra dead against the filter and my albino cory dead also with its tail eaten so although some have sid black ghost knives are not aggressive i am beginning to wonder.  mind you I cant prove that te fishes demise but i think it was

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8501 From: photo_muse Date: 2/11/2005
            Subject: Re: peggy
            << Then what about the tank its needs a total water change? >>

            Ah, missed this message earlier ... someone earlier posted some good
            advice and I think their is some later as well. I am NOT the water
            change expert ... I hate doing water changes and do not do it nearly
            often enough! I try though.

            Peggy :)
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8502 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/12/2005
            Subject: California Betta Society , 2/26/2005, 2:00 pm
            Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
            California Betta Society

            Saturday February 26, 2005
            2:00 pm - 5:00 pm
            This event does not repeat.
            The next reminder for this event will be sent in 11 days, 3 minutes.

            Event Location: El Rancho Steak House, 24052 Mission Boulevard Hayward, CA 94544
            Notes:
            http://www.cbsbettas.org/

            Next Meeting: Feb 26 , 2005

            Februay 2005 Meeting:

            Betta auction
            Date: February 26 , 2005 (Sat.)
            Time: 2:00 to 5:00pm
            Location:
            El Rancho Steak House
            24052 Mission Boulevard
            Hayward, CA 94544
            Ph. (510) 733-2314


            Location:

            El Rancho Steak House in Haward, CA.


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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8503 From: harryfisherman Date: 2/12/2005
            Subject: Badis Badis
            Is anyone keeping any of these fish and would you care to share a
            source?. Thanks

            Harry
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8504 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 2/12/2005
            Subject: How to breed silver sharks or tiger barbs?
            Any suggestions on breeding Silver Sharks or tiger barbs?

            =Nick
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8505 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
            Subject: A Little Help Please :)
            Hi Guys,

            I have a 75 gallon tank with several life plants and currently

            1 Black Ghost Knife
            4 Black Mollies
            2 Dalmation Mollies (added tonight)
            8 Neon Tetra (5 added tonight)

            and several baby black mollies birthed 2-3 days ago.

            I have heard man mixed things about the Black Ghost Knife and so far he has assassinated 2 neon tetra and an albino cory.  I just bought him some blood worms and shrimp pellets so I want to see if this reduces his aggression as, from what I have read, they are able to co-exist with otehr fish.

            My problem though is I did my water water change tonight (around 10-15%) of a 75 gallon tank.  Right now my water is still cloudy and the filter is producing little bubbles bouncing into the side of the tank which is aiding to generate unclear water.

            what is the cause of this?  will another water change help or am I doing something else wrong?

            thanks

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8506 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
            Subject: Re: A Little Help Please :)
            If you have a canister filter it might need purged..

            My Hang on back filters always makes air bubbles in the water especially if my water level is a little low...

            Cloudy water should settle in a few hours.. I am unsure why a 15-20% waterchange would have turned your water cloudy though...unless you really stirred up your substate or just dumped your water in when refilling...

            hope this helps
            rob
            Indiana





            In a message dated 2/12/2005 8:42:24 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Iksnip@... writes:



            My problem though is I did my water water change tonight (around 10-15%) of a 75 gallon tank.  Right now my water is still cloudy and the filter is producing little bubbles bouncing into the side of the tank which is aiding to generate unclear water.

            what is the cause of this?  will another water change help or am I doing something else wrong?

            thanks

            Ken


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8507 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
            Subject: Re: A Little Help Please :)
            that may be it, I did a kind of dump of water in, maybe I did stir the substrate.  I am rather new to ths hobbie and I couldnt ge the stupid siphon tube to withdraw water from the tank so I did a bucket water withdrawl and dump gently back into the tank with new water...how do I settle the problem?

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8508 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
            Subject: Neon Tetra Question
            Hi guys,

            I previously purchased 3 neon tetra from a petsmart and their blue is extremely rich, almost an electric blue.  Tonight, I purchased 5 neon tetra from a LFS and their blue is a lot paler, less rich, sadly the fish dont look attractiv together with their color disparity.  I was wondering, is it common for neon tetra to have differnt richness to their blue and what does it mean?

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8509 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
            Subject: Re: A Little Help Please :)
            Give it a few hours for cloudy to settle, might take a few days for airbubbles attached to anything to dissipate.
            Open the top and look in,Most people only fill it to bottom of the rim but 1/2 way up won't hurt anything.  This hope will take the filter bubbles away...

            rob
            Indiana


            In a message dated 2/12/2005 9:02:13 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Iksnip@... writes:


            that may be it, I did a kind of dump of water in, maybe I did stir the substrate.  I am rather new to ths hobbie and I couldnt ge the stupid siphon tube to withdraw water from the tank so I did a bucket water withdrawl and dump gently back into the tank with new water...how do I settle the problem?

            Ken


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8510 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
            Subject: Re: A Little Help Please :)
            thanks, right now it is mid way up the rim but I will see if I can go a little higher

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8511 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
            Subject: Re: Neon Tetra Question
            There are a lot of variables. Your neons could have been given a diffrent diet, better water conditions, maybe diffrent collection sight,, one group could be wild while others could be farm raised or hobbyist bred.

            I'd mix the two groups as you already have, give them the same diet and water conditions and hope that there colors will blend . In a few weeks or months you might not be able to tell the two groups apart or there color diffrences could really work to be a great offset scheme in your tank....

            sit back and enjoy...
            rob

            don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things  :-)



            In a message dated 2/12/2005 9:18:54 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Iksnip@... writes:


            Hi guys,

            I previously purchased 3 neon tetra from a petsmart and their blue is extremely rich, almost an electric blue.  Tonight, I purchased 5 neon tetra from a LFS and their blue is a lot paler, less rich, sadly the fish dont look attractiv together with their color disparity.  I was wondering, is it common for neon tetra to have differnt richness to their blue and what does it mean?

            Ken


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8512 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
            Subject: Re: Neon Tetra Question
            lol, I know can you tell  I am new to this.  Between the little bubbles from the filter (Emporor 400), baby mollies I didnt anticipate on, a ghost knife fish eating tetras when i was told he wouldnt, and just regular dealings, I am a bit stressed but enjoying it so far :)

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8513 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
            Subject: Black Ghost Knife Question
            Hi Guys,

            apparently I am asking questions tonight on my various breeds of fish.  Regarding his feeding regiment.  I bought some blood worms, shrimp pellets, and beef hearts for him and put a beef heart and some pellets in tonight.  Obviously the mollies went right after it even though I kind of hid it in his little cave.  Question, I know this fish needs to be fed regularly, how often is regularly from people's experiences?  I am trying to keep him healthy but fed so he doesnt eat my tetras

            thanks

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8514 From: paul helms Date: 2/12/2005
            Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife Question
            if you are trying to keep your fish healthy, i would
            not recommend using beef heart. it makes fish grow
            quickly, because of the hormones given to cattle, but
            clogs their arteries and causes premature death.
            paul
            --- Iksnip@... wrote:

            > Hi Guys,
            >
            > apparently I am asking questions tonight on my
            > various breeds of fish.
            > Regarding his feeding regiment. I bought some blood
            > worms, shrimp pellets, and
            > beef hearts for him and put a beef heart and some
            > pellets in tonight. Obviously
            > the mollies went right after it even though I kind
            > of hid it in his little
            > cave. Question, I know this fish needs to be fed
            > regularly, how often is
            > regularly from people's experiences? I am trying to
            > keep him healthy but fed so he
            > doesnt eat my tetras
            >
            > thanks
            >
            > Ken
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8515 From: paul helms Date: 2/12/2005
            Subject: Re: Neon Tetra Question
            there are two black ghost listed in most
            encyclopedias...one is aggressive the other is not
            --- Iksnip@... wrote:

            > lol, I know can you tell I am new to this. Between
            > the little bubbles from
            > the filter (Emporor 400), baby mollies I didnt
            > anticipate on, a ghost knife
            > fish eating tetras when i was told he wouldnt, and
            > just regular dealings, I am a
            > bit stressed but enjoying it so far :)
            >
            > Ken
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8516 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
            Subject: Re: Neon Tetra Question
            it appears the African one is aggressive and the south american one isnt.  I belive I got the South American but then again, the pet smart guy was kind of an idiot honestly!

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8517 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/12/2005
            Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife Question
            well the beef heart is out then.  I start with the shrimp pellets and blood worms

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8518 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/12/2005
            Subject: Re: Neon Tetra Question
                Most fish will eat anything that swims if it will fit in its mouth.  Even the most peaceful fish might occasionally be seen with its former tank-mate in its mouth. :)  It isn't aggression, it is nature.
             
            Patrick, the American Fish Guy
             
            Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
            About my tanks:  
            29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
            -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
            -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
            -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
            10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
            -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
            -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
            -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
            -------Original Message-------
            it appears the African one is aggressive and the south american one isnt.  I belive I got the South American but then again, the pet smart guy was kind of an idiot honestly!

            Ken
            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8519 From: Colleen Date: 2/12/2005
            Subject: Fw: [alaska_scanner] Fw: Invitation
            Invitation from Colleen Carnevale
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Colleen
            Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 9:34 PM
            Subject: [alaska_scanner] Fw: Invitation

             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 3:08 PM
            Subject: Invitation



            alaskaicekubes@...,


            Come join my network at hi5!

            I now have over 49 friends in my network! You can meet all of them, plus more than 7 million other Hi5 members! Once you join, you will immediately be connected to all the people in my circle of friends.

            Hi5 is an online service that lets you meet new people, view photos, browse profiles, and chat with your friends.

            I'll see you inside,

            Colleen Carnevale


            already has more than 7 million members!



            Gender/Age:
            Female/40


            Location:
            Anchorage



            This invitation was sent to alaskaicekubes@... on behalf of Colleen Carnevale (colleen64_theresa_55@...).

            If you do not wish to receive invitations from hi5 members, click on the link below:
            http://www.hi5.com/friend/displayBlockInvite.do?inviteId=214277442

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8520 From: Steve Date: 2/13/2005
            Subject: Re: Badis Badis
            You may want to try the Badis badis list here on Yahoo! for information
            about this interesting group of fishes.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: harryfisherman [mailto:harryfisherman@...]
            Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 7:27 PM
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Badis Badis






            Is anyone keeping any of these fish and would you care to share a
            source?. Thanks

            Harry






            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks

            Yahoo! Groups Links
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8521 From: Steve Date: 2/13/2005
            Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife Question
            The black ghost is more of a night feeder than your other fish, though it
            will eat during the day if allowed to become hungry enough. Feed for the
            black ghost can be added after the lights go out,

            If you feed beef heart as an occasional food, or part of a well rounded
            diet, it should be no problem. However, if the beef heart is a staple in the
            diet, your fish may well soon show the effects of it. The real problem is
            that it can lead to a fatty liver (think pate de fois gras) which is
            detrimental to the health of the fish.

            \\Steve//

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Iksnip@... [mailto:Iksnip@...]
            Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 9:54 PM
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Ghost Knife Question


            Hi Guys,

            apparently I am asking questions tonight on my various breeds of fish.
            Regarding his feeding regiment. I bought some blood worms, shrimp pellets,
            and beef hearts for him and put a beef heart and some pellets in tonight.
            Obviously the mollies went right after it even though I kind of hid it in
            his little cave. Question, I know this fish needs to be fed regularly, how
            often is regularly from people's experiences? I am trying to keep him
            healthy but fed so he doesnt eat my tetras

            thanks

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8522 From: Angela Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Nitrites!!!!!
            I gloomily tested my water AGAIN this morning. To my surprise, the
            testtube didn't change to dark purple. It stayed light blue. 0 ppm
            of nitrites. Then I checked the ammonia, and as usual, none of that
            either. I'm so excited. Last week, I took someone's advice (I
            can't remember who, but thank you) and removed the nitrazorb, put my
            filter pad back in and just waited. It worked.

            Now, for the questions. Does this mean my tank has cycled? Can I
            add fish? There something red on some of the tank decorations that
            wasn't there last week. What's that? Should I do something about
            it? I have two zebra danios and a frog. I'd like to add three more
            zebra danios and a cory catfish, if I can get fish.

            Thank you, thank you, thank you for all your help. You are
            invaluable.

            Angela
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8523 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
            Hi Angela, It would seem as if your tank has now finally cycled,
            otherwise you would be showing at least something in one or both
            tests; looks like the nitrites have come down off their peak.
            Congratulations and enjoy. Should be alright to add fish at this
            point. As for the red on the decorations, "if it ain't broke, don't
            fix it" (heh, heh). Seriously, I can't figure this one; maybe
            someone else here can. Sounds like some kind of precipitation, but I
            can't say what from. If your fish are still thriving, it doesn't
            sound harmful, just unsightly. If its just on the decorations and
            not on the gravel, it may be something coming from these pieces and
            maybe you should consider getting rid of them. If its too easily
            disturbed by lifting the decorations out to clean them, your best bet
            seems to try to use a syphon hose on this stuff. Can't think of
            anything live that color that would be growing on the decorations.
            Maybe some kind of medication residue. Ray
            \
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Angela" <angelasjenkins@c...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I gloomily tested my water AGAIN this morning. To my surprise, the
            > testtube didn't change to dark purple. It stayed light blue. 0
            ppm
            > of nitrites. Then I checked the ammonia, and as usual, none of
            that
            > either. I'm so excited. Last week, I took someone's advice (I
            > can't remember who, but thank you) and removed the nitrazorb, put
            my
            > filter pad back in and just waited. It worked.
            >
            > Now, for the questions. Does this mean my tank has cycled? Can I
            > add fish? There something red on some of the tank decorations that
            > wasn't there last week. What's that? Should I do something about
            > it? I have two zebra danios and a frog. I'd like to add three
            more
            > zebra danios and a cory catfish, if I can get fish.
            >
            > Thank you, thank you, thank you for all your help. You are
            > invaluable.
            >
            > Angela
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8524 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
            Is it red or brick-red/brownish? If it is more brownish, it may be algea.
             
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8525 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!

            That’s a good sign Angela,

             

            You can start adding fish in but do it slowly. You can however wait 1 more week for the tank to stabilize as I remember you had reduced the feeding on your fish. Start feeding the fish regularly and monitor both ammonia and nitrite after a week. If things are fine then, it will be safe to add 3-4 more fish.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 14 February 2005 13:39
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

             


            I gloomily tested my water AGAIN this morning.  To my surprise, the
            testtube didn't change to dark purple.  It stayed light blue.  0 ppm
            of nitrites.  Then I checked the ammonia, and as usual, none of that
            either.  I'm so excited.  Last week, I took someone's advice (I
            can't remember who, but thank you) and removed the nitrazorb, put my
            filter pad back in and just waited.  It worked. 

            Now, for the questions.  Does this mean my tank has cycled?  Can I
            add fish?  There something red on some of the tank decorations that
            wasn't there last week.  What's that?  Should I do something about
            it?  I have two zebra danios and a frog.  I'd like to add three more
            zebra danios and a cory catfish, if I can get fish.

            Thank you, thank you, thank you for all your help.  You are
            invaluable.

            Angela





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8526 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
            It is more brown or brick red.  I've gotten some live plants, so I've kept the lights on more.  Should I cut back the light time, or tolerate it and clean it when I change out the water?
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            Is it red or brick-red/brownish? If it is more brownish, it may be algea.
             


            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8527 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
            I just got two small zebra danios, a cory and another frog.  I'm not planning to add anything else for another 3-4 weeks.  How often should this many fish (4 zebra danios, a cory and 2 frogs) be fed?    The danios eat the flakes and I have shrimp pellets for the others.
             
            -------------- Original message --------------

            That�s a good sign Angela,

             

            You can start adding fish in but do it slowly. You can however wait 1 more week for the tank to stabilize as I remember you had reduced the feeding on your fish. Start feeding the fish regularly and monitor both ammonia and nitrite after a week. If things are fine then, it will be safe to add 3-4 more fish.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 14 February 2005 13:39
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

             


            I gloomily tested my water AGAIN this morning.  To my surprise, the
            testtube didn't change to dark purple.  It stayed light blue.  0 ppm
            of nitrites.  Then I checked the ammonia, and as usual, none of that
            either.  I'm so excited.  Last week, I took someone's advice (I
            can't remember who, but thank you) and removed the nitrazorb, put my
            filter pad back in and just waited.  It worked. 

            Now, for the questions.  Does this mean my tank has cycled?  Can I
            add fish?  There something red on some of the tank decorations that
            wasn't there last week.  What's that?  Should I do something about
            it?  I have two zebra danios and a frog.  I'd like to add three more
            zebra danios and a cory catfish, if I can get fish.

            Thank you, thank you, thank you for all your help.  You are
            invaluable.

            Angela





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks






            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8528 From: sdaccord03 Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: www.myreeftank.us
            Whats up everyone! Hey Aaron thanks for the invite. Check out my
            site at http://www.myreeftank.us It's dedicated to reef-keeping,
            naturally, and eventually I hope to have a bunch of articles but
            right now it's just got some cool pics of my reef tanks, which are
            doing well.

            I've got a 6-gallon nano-reef with a sebae clown, two damsels, a
            sebae anemone, a cleaner shrimp, some purple mushrooms, a green
            brain coral (brand new addition!) and a bunch of hermits and
            snails.

            I've also got a 55 gallon reef tank with 80 lbs. of live rock and
            about 40 lbs. of live sand that is still cycling. I did all the
            plumbing on that one myself including a refugium for reducing
            nitrates and phosphates. Anyways, I hope you like it!

            Jimmy

            http://www.myreeftank.us
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8529 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
            Angela, Brown, not red; that's a whole different story. What you
            have is brown algae, usually caused from excess nutrients in the
            water (possibly some higher nitrates) and low light, which it thrives
            in. The live plants should now deplete those nutrients, depending
            upon how many you have. Do not cut back on the light time, although
            I do not know how long you leave them on. Less light will only
            encourage the brown algae growth and somewhat restrict the live
            plants from doing their job of "soaking up" the nutrients. Only if
            you see the growth of green algae, should you cut back on the
            lighting, and then I would recommend adding more live plants as it
            would then seem as if you didn't have enough plants to control the
            nutrients, which is not likely since you don't have a high fish
            load. Your live plants should help a lot. Ray
            \
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
            > It is more brown or brick red. I've gotten some live plants, so
            I've kept the lights on more. Should I cut back the light time, or
            tolerate it and clean it when I change out the water?
            >
            > -------------- Original message --------------
            >
            > Is it red or brick-red/brownish? If it is more brownish, it may be
            algea.
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
            thanks
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > ADVERTISEMENT
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            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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            > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8530 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
            By the way, what is the process now for changing water and knowing when it needs to be changed?
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            I just got two small zebra danios, a cory and another frog.  I'm not planning to add anything else for another 3-4 weeks.  How often should this many fish (4 zebra danios, a cory and 2 frogs) be fed?    The danios eat the flakes and I have shrimp pellets for the others.
             
            -------------- Original message --------------

            That�s a good sign Angela,

             

            You can start adding fish in but do it slowly. You can however wait 1 more week for the tank to stabilize as I remember you had reduced the feeding on your fish. Start feeding the fish regularly and monitor both ammonia and nitrite after a week. If things are fine then, it will be safe to add 3-4 more fish.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 14 February 2005 13:39
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

             


            I gloomily tested my water AGAIN this morning.  To my surprise, the
            testtube didn't change to dark purple.  It stayed light blue.  0 ppm
            of nitrites.  Then I checked the ammonia, and as usual, none of that
            either.  I'm so excited.  Last week, I took someone's advice (I
            can't remember who, but thank you) and removed the nitrazorb, put my
            filter pad back in and just waited.  It worked. 

            Now, for the questions.  Does this mean my tank has cycled?  Can I
            add fish?  There something red on some of the tank decorations that
            wasn't there last week.  What's that?  Should I do something about
            it?  I have two zebra danios and a frog.  I'd like to add three more
            zebra danios and a cory catfish, if I can get fish.

            Thank you, thank you, thank you for all your help.  You are
            invaluable.

            Angela





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks






            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8531 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!

            What are your nitrate levels? Let that govern for the moment if you need a water change or not? Also, what are your tap water nitrates?

            This is NitrATES not NitrITES.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 14 February 2005 17:28
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

             

            By the way, what is the process now for changing water and knowing when it needs to be changed?

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            I just got two small zebra danios, a cory and another frog.  I'm not planning to add anything else for another 3-4 weeks.  How often should this many fish (4 zebra danios, a cory and 2 frogs) be fed?    The danios eat the flakes and I have shrimp pellets for the others.

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            That’s a good sign Angela,

             

            You can start adding fish in but do it slowly. You can however wait 1 more week for the tank to stabilize as I remember you had reduced the feeding on your fish. Start feeding the fish regularly and monitor both ammonia and nitrite after a week. If things are fine then, it will be safe to add 3-4 more fish.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 14 February 2005 13:39
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

             


            I gloomily tested my water AGAIN this morning.  To my surprise, the
            testtube didn't change to dark purple.  It stayed light blue.  0 ppm
            of nitrites.  Then I checked the ammonia, and as usual, none of that
            either.  I'm so excited.  Last week, I took someone's advice (I
            can't remember who, but thank you) and removed the nitrazorb, put my
            filter pad back in and just waited.  It worked. 

            Now, for the questions.  Does this mean my tank has cycled?  Can I
            add fish?  There something red on some of the tank decorations that
            wasn't there last week.  What's that?  Should I do something about
            it?  I have two zebra danios and a frog.  I'd like to add three more
            zebra danios and a cory catfish, if I can get fish.

            Thank you, thank you, thank you for all your help.  You are
            invaluable.

            Angela





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8532 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: www.myreeftank.us
            Your tanks are beautiful.  Thank you for sharing them.
             
            Angela
             
            -------------- Original message --------------


            Whats up everyone!  Hey Aaron thanks for the invite.  Check out my
            site at http://www.myreeftank.us.  It's dedicated to reef-keeping,
            naturally, and eventually I hope to have a bunch of articles but
            right now it's just got some cool pics of my reef tanks, which are
            doing well. 

            I've got a 6-gallon nano-reef with a sebae clown, two damsels, a
            sebae anemone, a cleaner shrimp, some purple mushrooms, a green
            brain coral (brand new addition!) and a bunch of hermits and
            snails. 

            I've also got a 55 gallon reef tank with 80 lbs. of live rock and
            about 40 lbs. of live sand that is still cycling.  I did all the
            plumbing on that one myself including a refugium for reducing
            nitrates and phosphates.  Anyways, I hope you like it!

            Jimmy

            http://www.myreeftank.us 








            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8533 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
            I only have tests for ph, nitrites, and ammonia.  Is the nitrate a different test?
             
            -------------- Original message --------------

            What are your nitrate levels? Let that govern for the moment if you need a water change or not? Also, what are your tap water nitrates?

            This is NitrATES not NitrITES.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 14 February 2005 17:28
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

             

            By the way, what is the process now for changing water and knowing when it needs to be changed?

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            I just got two small zebra danios, a cory and another frog.  I'm not planning to add anything else for another 3-4 weeks.  How often should this many fish (4 zebra danios, a cory and 2 frogs) be fed?    The danios eat the flakes and I have shrimp pellets for the others.

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            That�s a good sign Angela,

             

            You can start adding fish in but do it slowly. You can however wait 1 more week for the tank to stabilize as I remember you had reduced the feeding on your fish. Start feeding the fish regularly and monitor both ammonia and nitrite after a week. If things are fine then, it will be safe to add 3-4 more fish.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 14 February 2005 13:39
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

             


            I gloomily tested my water AGAIN this morning.  To my surprise, the
            testtube didn't change to dark purple.  It stayed light blue.  0 ppm
            of nitrites.  Then I checked the ammonia, and as usual, none of that
            either.  I'm so excited.  Last week, I took someone's advice (I
            can't remember who, but thank you) and removed the nitrazorb, put my
            filter pad back in and just waited.  It worked. 

            Now, for the questions.  Does this mean my tank has cycled?  Can I
            add fish?  There something red on some of the tank decorations that
            wasn't there last week.  What's that?  Should I do something about
            it?  I have two zebra danios and a frog.  I'd like to add three more
            zebra danios and a cory catfish, if I can get fish.

            Thank you, thank you, thank you for all your help.  You are
            invaluable.

            Angela





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks






            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8534 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
            In a message dated 2/14/2005 1:55:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, angelasjenkins@... writes:
            I only have tests for ph, nitrites, and ammonia.  Is the nitrate a different test?
            Yes, and be sure to get the reagent test (drops).
             
            Vicky
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8535 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!

            Well then don’t worry for the moment. Let the tank sit there for a couple of weeks without water changes. This is a crucial time for the tank as it has just finished its cycle and needs a bit more time to attain stability. You can add a few fish however but avoid a water change for a couple of more weeks.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 14 February 2005 18:36
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

             

            I only have tests for ph, nitrites, and ammonia.  Is the nitrate a different test?

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            What are your nitrate levels? Let that govern for the moment if you need a water change or not? Also, what are your tap water nitrates?

            This is NitrATES not NitrITES.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 14 February 2005 17:28
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

             

            By the way, what is the process now for changing water and knowing when it needs to be changed?

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            I just got two small zebra danios, a cory and another frog.  I'm not planning to add anything else for another 3-4 weeks.  How often should this many fish (4 zebra danios, a cory and 2 frogs) be fed?    The danios eat the flakes and I have shrimp pellets for the others.

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            That’s a good sign Angela,

             

            You can start adding fish in but do it slowly. You can however wait 1 more week for the tank to stabilize as I remember you had reduced the feeding on your fish. Start feeding the fish regularly and monitor both ammonia and nitrite after a week. If things are fine then, it will be safe to add 3-4 more fish.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 14 February 2005 13:39
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

             


            I gloomily tested my water AGAIN this morning.  To my surprise, the
            testtube didn't change to dark purple.  It stayed light blue.  0 ppm
            of nitrites.  Then I checked the ammonia, and as usual, none of that
            either.  I'm so excited.  Last week, I took someone's advice (I
            can't remember who, but thank you) and removed the nitrazorb, put my
            filter pad back in and just waited.  It worked. 

            Now, for the questions.  Does this mean my tank has cycled?  Can I
            add fish?  There something red on some of the tank decorations that
            wasn't there last week.  What's that?  Should I do something about
            it?  I have two zebra danios and a frog.  I'd like to add three more
            zebra danios and a cory catfish, if I can get fish.

            Thank you, thank you, thank you for all your help.  You are
            invaluable.

            Angela





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8536 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
            Thank you for your guidance.  I'm going to get a nitrate test kit this afternoon.  Then I'll have ammonia, nitrite, ph, and nitrate kits.  Is there anything else I'll need?
             
            -------------- Original message --------------

            Well then don�t worry for the moment. Let the tank sit there for a couple of weeks without water changes. This is a crucial time for the tank as it has just finished its cycle and needs a bit more time to attain stability. You can add a few fish however but avoid a water change for a couple of more weeks.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 14 February 2005 18:36
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

             

            I only have tests for ph, nitrites, and ammonia.  Is the nitrate a different test?

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            What are your nitrate levels? Let that govern for the moment if you need a water change or not? Also, what are your tap water nitrates?

            This is NitrATES not NitrITES.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 14 February 2005 17:28
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

             

            By the way, what is the process now for changing water and knowing when it needs to be changed?

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            I just got two small zebra danios, a cory and another frog.  I'm not planning to add anything else for another 3-4 weeks.  How often should this many fish (4 zebra danios, a cory and 2 frogs) be fed?    The danios eat the flakes and I have shrimp pellets for the others.

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            That�s a good sign Angela,

             

            You can start adding fish in but do it slowly. You can however wait 1 more week for the tank to stabilize as I remember you had reduced the feeding on your fish. Start feeding the fish regularly and monitor both ammonia and nitrite after a week. If things are fine then, it will be safe to add 3-4 more fish.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 14 February 2005 13:39
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

             


            I gloomily tested my water AGAIN this morning.  To my surprise, the
            testtube didn't change to dark purple.  It stayed light blue.  0 ppm
            of nitrites.  Then I checked the ammonia, and as usual, none of that
            either.  I'm so excited.  Last week, I took someone's advice (I
            can't remember who, but thank you) and removed the nitrazorb, put my
            filter pad back in and just waited.  It worked. 

            Now, for the questions.  Does this mean my tank has cycled?  Can I
            add fish?  There something red on some of the tank decorations that
            wasn't there last week.  What's that?  Should I do something about
            it?  I have two zebra danios and a frog.  I'd like to add three more
            zebra danios and a cory catfish, if I can get fish.

            Thank you, thank you, thank you for all your help.  You are
            invaluable.

            Angela





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks






            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8537 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!

            Nopes, you will not need anything more then this unless you venture into advanced planted tanks or marines. However, just get the water tested by your LFS for GH and KH. You don’t need to buy these kits as these values rarely change.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 14 February 2005 19:29
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

             

            Thank you for your guidance.  I'm going to get a nitrate test kit this afternoon.  Then I'll have ammonia, nitrite, ph, and nitrate kits.  Is there anything else I'll need?

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            Well then don’t worry for the moment. Let the tank sit there for a couple of weeks without water changes. This is a crucial time for the tank as it has just finished its cycle and needs a bit more time to attain stability. You can add a few fish however but avoid a water change for a couple of more weeks.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 14 February 2005 18:36
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

             

            I only have tests for ph, nitrites, and ammonia.  Is the nitrate a different test?

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            What are your nitrate levels? Let that govern for the moment if you need a water change or not? Also, what are your tap water nitrates?

            This is NitrATES not NitrITES.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 14 February 2005 17:28
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

             

            By the way, what is the process now for changing water and knowing when it needs to be changed?

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            I just got two small zebra danios, a cory and another frog.  I'm not planning to add anything else for another 3-4 weeks.  How often should this many fish (4 zebra danios, a cory and 2 frogs) be fed?    The danios eat the flakes and I have shrimp pellets for the others.

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            That’s a good sign Angela,

             

            You can start adding fish in but do it slowly. You can however wait 1 more week for the tank to stabilize as I remember you had reduced the feeding on your fish. Start feeding the fish regularly and monitor both ammonia and nitrite after a week. If things are fine then, it will be safe to add 3-4 more fish.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 14 February 2005 13:39
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

             


            I gloomily tested my water AGAIN this morning.  To my surprise, the
            testtube didn't change to dark purple.  It stayed light blue.  0 ppm
            of nitrites.  Then I checked the ammonia, and as usual, none of that
            either.  I'm so excited.  Last week, I took someone's advice (I
            can't remember who, but thank you) and removed the nitrazorb, put my
            filter pad back in and just waited.  It worked. 

            Now, for the questions.  Does this mean my tank has cycled?  Can I
            add fish?  There something red on some of the tank decorations that
            wasn't there last week.  What's that?  Should I do something about
            it?  I have two zebra danios and a frog.  I'd like to add three more
            zebra danios and a cory catfish, if I can get fish.

            Thank you, thank you, thank you for all your help.  You are
            invaluable.

            Angela





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8538 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
            As for your question about how often to feed, this does not depend
            upon how many fish you have. For all intents and purposes, twice a
            day is just fine, no matter how many fish you have. Just remember to
            feed only enough that they'll clean it up in 5 minutes; or 10 minutes
            at the very most, but be sure they clean it up. Some breeders feed
            up to 5 times a day for maximum fastest growth, but that's a
            different situation -- rearing fry up to selling size. This
            naturally requires more frequent water changes and filter
            maintenance. Ray
            \
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
            > I just got two small zebra danios, a cory and another frog. I'm
            not planning to add anything else for another 3-4 weeks. How often
            should this many fish (4 zebra danios, a cory and 2 frogs) be fed?
            The danios eat the flakes and I have shrimp pellets for the others.
            >
            > -------------- Original message --------------
            >
            > That's a good sign Angela,
            >
            > You can start adding fish in but do it slowly. You can however wait
            1 more week for the tank to stabilize as I remember you had reduced
            the feeding on your fish. Start feeding the fish regularly and
            monitor both ammonia and nitrite after a week. If things are fine
            then, it will be safe to add 3-4 more fish.
            >
            > Nim
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@c...]
            > Sent: 14 February 2005 13:39
            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!
            >
            >
            > I gloomily tested my water AGAIN this morning. To my surprise, the
            > testtube didn't change to dark purple. It stayed light blue. 0
            ppm
            > of nitrites. Then I checked the ammonia, and as usual, none of
            that
            > either. I'm so excited. Last week, I took someone's advice (I
            > can't remember who, but thank you) and removed the nitrazorb, put
            my
            > filter pad back in and just waited. It worked.
            >
            > Now, for the questions. Does this mean my tank has cycled? Can I
            > add fish? There something red on some of the tank decorations that
            > wasn't there last week. What's that? Should I do something about
            > it? I have two zebra danios and a frog. I'd like to add three
            more
            > zebra danios and a cory catfish, if I can get fish.
            >
            > Thank you, thank you, thank you for all your help. You are
            > invaluable.
            >
            > Angela
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
            thanks
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
            thanks
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > ADVERTISEMENT
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8539 From: Audrey Archer Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Brackish goby, salt in planted tanks, planted tank substrates
            Lauri - Some of your questions appeared to have been unanswered... I hope I can help.

            This is only my experience, but I have always added "Freshwater Aquarium Salt" to my freshwater tanks, the planted one as well, at a rate of 1 T per 10 gallons (about half strength). It hasn't hindered the plant growth, and the Endler's livebearers and golden white clouds are content with it - I have never had ick in my tanks, until my oldest Endler female got it after giving birth the last time at the same time my heater went out.

            I don't have any experience with the type of fish or plants that you have, however. My plants are Aponogetons, Java Moss, Cabomba carolinia, Riccia fluitans, and duckweed. Hydrometer reading on my FW tanks is 1.002 - you can pick one of these up for $8 - $15, and salt is cheap. You could try very slowly increasing the salt in your 55 gallon only to a certain point, then when you find another tank, either for the Gobie or for the others, increase the level in the Gobie tank, and gradually decrease the salt level in the freshwater tank, by not adding it with water changes any more.

            By the way, you didn't mention your substrate, but the lack of a special substrate has not bothered the plants I have (I am using cheap light brown aquarium gravel in my planted tank), or the fact that I started the plants in a "new" tank - no mulm, not even any fish waste, just pure household ammonia to cycle the tank. The only plants I had problems with were the Water Sprite (recommended for brackish tanks and moderately hard water like you and I have, but died very quickly) and dwarf water lily (they got way too big, way too fast, and I had to put them in my pond, and only one of three survived being yanked out).

            The kind of salt I get for my freshwater tanks also says it can be used in a brackish tank (although I used Kosher salt in my brackish tank to start it, due to the volume of salt required, and the fact that I had it on hand; I bought some regular ocean salt mix for the future). Furthermore, I have added Endler's fry three at a time to my brackish tank (1.009) to feed the Green Spotted Puffer in there, and they always just swim around happily in the saltier water, until the puffer decides to quit playing tag and eats them. (They are actually less happy when I put them in the Cichlid tank, they always stay right on the surface at the edges; but they don't last as long in there anyway - my Convicts snatch them up as soon as they see them, now. I suspect it is because the filter flow is much stronger, but it also has a hardness of 300 ppm+ because I had set it up for African Rift Lake cichlids, not the Convicts I was given, so it could be that.)

            The snails that I have put in for the puffer to eat, however, do NOT like the brackish water... they retreat immediately into their shells. And they do not multiply as quickly in the freshwater tank, with the salt added. So... it all depends on what you have in your individual community.

            Your water hardness may possibly see an increase from carbon filtration, and unstable rocks you may have in your tank, if you are not adding anything else to it, such as buffers. I am not sure what a "basement" rock is...?

            Your tank is apparently still cycling, since you have an ammonia reading of 0.2, and your pH is dropping; am I right? I personally would have waited to change any water and add any more fish until the cycle was complete, but that is water under the bridge now... pun intended. When I cycled my tanks I checked the water parameters every day, but not everyone does it that often. It took my cycle only 18 days with ammonia - I have heard it takes 6 to 8 weeks using fish.

            Also you apparently have a lot of nitrates in your tap water - what is the source of this pollution, do you know? Do you plan to use different water for your water changes in the future? It would be helpful, since the purpose of the water changes is to reduce nitrates.

            Audrey

            > Message: 20
            Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 18:20:07 -0000
            From: "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@...>
            Subject: RE: water chemistry

            Lauri, I cannot really say about the specific goby as I don’t have any
            experience with it, but in my general experience most brackish fish that
            have been acclimatized to freshwater do fine in freshwater but maybe not for
            long. They can survive but may develop ingestion or similar problems with
            time so adding a bit of salt will help. Do not give it brackish water
            immediately but a bit of salt to start with and gradually increase it to a
            certain level. Brackish fish are capable of living in both freshwater and
            almost sea water for short periods of time.



            Nim





            _____

            From: Lauri T [mailto:aktahi@...]
            Sent: 09 February 2005 10:02
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] water chemistry



            Hello



            Just joined the group, and have looked through the archives
            today.

            I’ve also been doing a good bit of research elsewhere…..and I am a bit
            confused

            on how to address a conflict we have with a certain fish and the rest in our

            freshwater tank community.



            First let me say that all of our fish are still very young, by
            all appearances

            seem quite healthy and well adjusted….but we made one fish purchase that
            really

            should be in a brackish environment with a sandy bottom. It is the Dragon
            Goby –

            Gobioides broussonnetii (about 5”). It naturally inhabits muddy bays and
            estuaries

            along the southern US states and the Gulf. It was in a freshwater tank at
            the pet

            store. But in my research, I am seeing that it would do better in brackish
            water.



            I have been reading conflicting information about adding salt -
            it is

            suggested that the goby will do fine with a 1% salt addition, and I was told
            the rest

            of the community would be ok with that – but then I read here in archives
            that salt

            should not be added to a freshwater community. We are willing to make the

            necessary changes required for these fish – and we already know we will
            eventually

            have to provide larger environments for most of them – but I want to know
            all of my

            options before I go out and buy more equipment right now.



            I would like to know if adding some salt to this tank is a
            possible option or if

            it’s not really necessary right now. Since the goby has been in freshwater
            for at least

            1.5 month that I know of, how soon does he need to be transitioned?



            Here is the chemistry of my tank water today: straight tap
            water:

            pH – 7.8
            8.0

            hardness: 180
            140

            alkaline buffering: 160
            160

            Nitrite: 1
            0

            Nitrate: 6
            5

            Ammonia: .2

            Temp: 78 F

            (how is the water harder after it is in the tank?)



            Here are the other fish in the 55 gal – as I said, they are still
            really small right now.

            1 Ghost Knife fish – 5” Apteronotus albifrons

            1 Golden Shark – 3” Leptobarbus hoeveni (also known as a
            Maroon Shark)

            1 Pangasius Catfish – 2” Pangasius Sutchi

            1 Pictus Catfish – 2” Pimelodus Pictus

            1 Plecostomus – 3” Hypostomus plecostomus

            2 Bala Sharks – 2” Balantiocheilus melanpterus

            2 Clown Loaches – 1 ½” Botia macracanthus



            As I said, they are all getting along extremely well right now, and we are
            maintaining the

            water regularly – it’s a fairly new tank and I test the water frequently –
            don’t quite

            understand how long the nitrogen cycle takes, but we did add 3 fish last
            Saturday.

            We’ve done a 25% water change since then as well.



            One more thing, I have several live plants in this tank as well, and they
            are growing quite

            rapidly; the echinodorus bleheri has many shoots, and I have already cut and
            planted 7 of

            them, with more ready soon. The red Ludwigia has many new leaves, and the
            anacharis

            also has new “shoots”, too. The acorus is holding it’s own. I have read
            that some live

            plants won’t live in a salted tank (?).



            There are several pieces of “basement” rock, and also several tubes for the
            knife fish and

            dragon fish, but all the fish play or sleep in them. It’s not uncommon for
            the knife fish to

            be seen sleeping next to a loach in one, or the two loaches to sleep
            together. The dragon

            is usually wedged next to a rock.



            So, that’s the set up…..my only real concern right now is for the welfare
            of the dragon fish.



            Thanks for taking the time to read, hope someone can send me in
            the right direction.


            Lauri T
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8540 From: Aranel Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Questions about my new fish and snail...
            I went to Petsmart yesterday to get some fish, which was a total hassle
            because they had the guy that stocks dog food working in the fish
            department. He told me this after he mixed up which fish I wanted three
            times.

            But anyway, I got three platies that they had labeled as "dwarfs".
            They're really small, about the same size a three month old fry. I tried
            to look them up on google to see how big they would get, but I found
            nothing about dwarf platies. Lots of stuff about regular ones, which
            lead me to believe that these are in fact just juvenile platies. Has
            anyone ever heard of dwarf platies, and if you have, how big will they get?

            I also got a beautiful red betta for my little sister, a male guppy, and
            a black mystery snail. By the way, does anyone know how long the snail
            will live? It's about the size of quarter right now.

            -Aranel
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8541 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
            I had cut back to once a week while the nitrites were so high and the fish did fine.  I'm afraid if I go to twice a day, the water quality will go down.  Are you sure I should feed that much?  I've been feeding one shrimp pellet and one flake each week.  I know that overfeeding is the worst thing I can do, so I want to be very careful.
             
            -------------- Original message --------------

            As for your question about how often to feed, this does not depend
            upon how many fish you have.  For all intents and purposes, twice a
            day is just fine, no matter how many fish you have.  Just remember to
            feed only enough that they'll clean it up in 5 minutes; or 10 minutes
            at the very most, but be sure they clean it up.  Some breeders feed
            up to 5 times a day for maximum fastest growth, but that's a
            different situation -- rearing fry up to selling size.  This
            naturally requires more frequent water changes and filter
            maintenance.  Ray                                                   
            \                                                                    
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
            > I just got two small zebra danios, a cory and another frog.  I'm
            not planning to add anything else for another 3-4 weeks.  How often
            should this many fish (4 zebra danios, a cory and 2 frogs) be fed?   
            The danios eat the flakes and I have shrimp pellets for the others.
            >
            > -------------- Original message --------------
            >
            > That's a good sign Angela,

            > You can start adding fish in but do it slowly. You can however wait
            1 more week for the tank to stabilize as I remember you had reduced
            the feeding on your fish. Start feeding the fish regularly and
            monitor both ammonia and nitrite after a week. If things are fine
            then, it will be safe to add 3-4 more fish.

            > Nim


            >
            >
            >
            > From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@c...]
            > Sent: 14 February 2005 13:39
            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

            >
            > I gloomily tested my water AGAIN this morning.  To my surprise, the
            > testtube didn't change to dark purple.  It stayed light blue.  0
            ppm
            > of nitrites.  Then I checked the ammonia, and as usual, none of
            that
            > either.  I'm so excited.  Last week, I took someone's advice (I
            > can't remember who, but thank you) and removed the nitrazorb, put
            my
            > filter pad back in and just waited.  It worked. 
            >
            > Now, for the questions.  Does this mean my tank has cycled?  Can I
            > add fish?  There something red on some of the tank decorations that
            > wasn't there last week.  What's that?  Should I do something about
            > it?  I have two zebra danios and a frog.  I'd like to add three
            more
            > zebra danios and a cory catfish, if I can get fish.
            >
            > Thank you, thank you, thank you for all your help.  You are
            > invaluable.
            >
            > Angela
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
            thanks
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
            thanks
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > ADVERTISEMENT
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            >  
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >  
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8542 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Crayfish
            I have lots of anicharis (Spelling) and hornwort in that pond. I
            imagine they eat this stuff too (And it does grow fast I assume they
            will not harm it?)

            I do have water lilies, and some other bog plants, would they feast on
            these and then the fish not have any lily cover?

            I do have a large peice of PVC about 6" wide and 2' long, so I bet
            this would be good for it to hide in.

            How much should I feed them? Should I just get them a few vegtables
            (Cooked or not?) once a week or so, and let them eat plants the rest
            of the time?

            I saw that they try to eat fish. This is the main part that worries
            me. Will the try to eat grown goldfish? I have 2 fancy goldfish with
            big fins (and they wobble slow).

            Would you suggest one for my pond or not?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8543 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!

            Yes, you are correct that if you switch to twice per day, water quality will go down. You may get ammonia and nitrite again. But you cannot keep feeding once a week for long so do increase the feeding to once every 2 days and see how it happens. If you get ammonia or nitrite, do not panic as this will be only a mini cycle which probably cannot be avoided at this stage. You also have to increase the feeding schedule before putting in more fish.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 14 February 2005 21:08
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrites!!!!!

             

            I had cut back to once a week while the nitrites were so high and the fish did fine.  I'm afraid if I go to twice a day, the water quality will go down.  Are you sure I should feed that much?  I've been feeding one shrimp pellet and one flake each week.  I know that overfeeding is the worst thing I can do, so I want to be very careful.

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            As for your question about how often to feed, this does not depend
            upon how many fish you have.  For all intents and purposes, twice a
            day is just fine, no matter how many fish you have.  Just remember to
            feed only enough that they'll clean it up in 5 minutes; or 10 minutes
            at the very most, but be sure they clean it up.  Some breeders feed
            up to 5 times a day for maximum fastest growth, but that's a
            different situation -- rearing fry up to selling size.  This
            naturally requires more frequent water changes and filter
            maintenance.  Ray                                                   
            \                                                                    
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
            > I just got two small zebra danios, a cory and another frog.  I'm
            not planning to add anything else for another 3-4 weeks.  How often
            should this many fish (4 zebra danios, a cory and 2 frogs) be fed?   
            The danios eat the flakes and I have shrimp pellets for the others.
            >
            > -------------- Original message --------------
            >
            > That's a good sign Angela,

            > You can start adding fish in but do it slowly. You can however wait
            1 more week for the tank to stabilize as I remember you had reduced
            the feeding on your fish. Start feeding the fish regularly and
            monitor both ammonia and nitrite after a week. If things are fine
            then, it will be safe to add 3-4 more fish.

            > Nim


            >
            >
            >
            > From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@c...]
            > Sent: 14 February 2005 13:39
            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

            >
            > I gloomily tested my water AGAIN this morning.  To my surprise, the
            > testtube didn't change to dark purple.  It stayed light blue.  0
            ppm
            > of nitrites.  Then I checked the ammonia, and as usual, none of
            that
            > either.  I'm so excited.  Last week, I took someone's advice (I
            > can't remember who, but thank you) and removed the nitrazorb, put
            my
            > filter pad back in and just waited.  It worked. 
            >
            > Now, for the questions.  Does this mean my tank has cycled?  Can I
            > add fish?  There something red on some of the tank decorations that
            > wasn't there last week.  What's that?  Should I do something about
            > it?  I have two zebra danios and a frog.  I'd like to add three
            more
            > zebra danios and a cory catfish, if I can get fish.
            >
            > Thank you, thank you, thank you for all your help.  You are
            > invaluable.
            >
            > Angela
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
            thanks
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
            thanks
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > ADVERTISEMENT
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            >  
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >  
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8544 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
            Thanks for your help.  This is almost as scary as having a baby!  I don't want to do anything to harm these sweet fish.
             
            -------------- Original message --------------

            Yes, you are correct that if you switch to twice per day, water quality will go down. You may get ammonia and nitrite again. But you cannot keep feeding once a week for long so do increase the feeding to once every 2 days and see how it happens. If you get ammonia or nitrite, do not panic as this will be only a mini cycle which probably cannot be avoided at this stage. You also have to increase the feeding schedule before putting in more fish.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 14 February 2005 21:08
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrites!!!!!

             

            I had cut back to once a week while the nitrites were so high and the fish did fine.  I'm afraid if I go to twice a day, the water quality will go down.  Are you sure I should feed that much?  I've been feeding one shrimp pellet and one flake each week.  I know that overfeeding is the worst thing I can do, so I want to be very careful.

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            As for your question about how often to feed, this does not depend
            upon how many fish you have.  For all intents and purposes, twice a
            day is just fine, no matter how many fish you have.  Just remember to
            feed only enough that they'll clean it up in 5 minutes; or 10 minutes
            at the very most, but be sure they clean it up.  Some breeders feed
            up to 5 times a day for maximum fastest growth, but that's a
            different situation -- rearing fry up to selling size.  This
            naturally requires more frequent water changes and filter
            maintenance.  Ray                                                   
            \                                                                    
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
            > I just got two small zebra danios, a cory and another frog.  I'm
            not planning to add anything else for another 3-4 weeks.  How often
            should this many fish (4 zebra danios, a cory and 2 frogs) be fed?   
            The danios eat the flakes and I have shrimp pellets for the others.
            >
            > -------------- Original message --------------
            >
            > That's a good sign Angela,

            > You can start adding fish in but do it slowly. You can however wait
            1 more week for the tank to stabilize as I remember you had reduced
            the feeding on your fish. Start feeding the fish regularly and
            monitor both ammonia and nitrite after a week. If things are fine
            then, it will be safe to add 3-4 more fish.

            > Nim


            >
            >
            >
            > From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@c...]
            > Sent: 14 February 2005 13:39
            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!

            >
            > I gloomily tested my water AGAIN this morning.  To my surprise, the
            > testtube didn't change to dark purple.  It stayed light blue.  0
            ppm
            > of nitrites.  Then I checked the ammonia, and as usual, none of
            that
            > either.  I'm so excited.  Last week, I took someone's advice (I
            > can't remember who, but thank you) and removed the nitrazorb, put
            my
            > filter pad back in and just waited.  It worked. 
            >
            > Now, for the questions.  Does this mean my tank has cycled?  Can I
            > add fish?  There something red on some of the tank decorations that
            > wasn't there last week.  What's that?  Should I do something about
            > it?  I have two zebra danios and a frog.  I'd like to add three
            more
            > zebra danios and a cory catfish, if I can get fish.
            >
            > Thank you, thank you, thank you for all your help.  You are
            > invaluable.
            >
            > Angela
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
            thanks
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
            thanks
            >
            >
            >
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            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks






            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8545 From: LauriT Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Brackish goby, salt in planted tanks, planted tank substrates

            Hi Audrey,

                        Thanks for your great response, it has helped me consider matters more thoroughly.

            I think I will go with the freshwater salt route for now, and do as you suggested when moving

            the goby to a new tank.

             

                        I was checking the water everyday, now about every other – and haven’t made

            any water changes in almost 2 weeks….and all the readings are changing.  The nitrates are

            coming down slowly, still higher than I want but within the safe zone; nitrites and ammonia

            are almost zero.

             

                        Also, I didn’t use any special substrate either – just white gravel….all the plants I have

            are really growing well, and appear healthy.  I plan to be a bit more prepared and organized

            with the new tanks I will inevitably set up.  But for now, all the fish and plants seem to be doing

            very well, and all are growing.

             

                        As for basement rock,  it is Pre-Cambrian rock, and is considered to be the

            "basement of the continents."

            It’s the rock that anchors the continents deep within the earth.  There are very few outcroppings

            found on the surface of the earth, and I am lucky to live near one.  Being that I live in a highly

            active volcanic area explains how it has been pushed to the surface.  They figure the basement rock

            from here is about 2.5 billion years old, or so.  My pleco rarely leaves it, so hopefully he knows

            what he is doing!

             

                        I did a search about nitrates in well water, and one fact could explain why we have

            nitrates – we live in heavily forested mountains, and according to what I have read, and being

            that this is a volcanic area, this may have something to do with the matter of nitrates:

            Contamination can also occur if wells are drilled in fractured bedrock without an adequate layer

            of protective soil ……    it also suggested that distilling the water would take care of nitrates.

            I am going to test some boiled water and see what reading I get.

             

                        We’ll be heading into “town” this weekend, so I’ll pick up everything I need for this tank, and

            for the new goby set up – and I’ll let the new tank cycle all the way before I move the goby.  I’ll make

            sure the salt levels are the same, and then adjust both tanks after the move.

             

                        Also, I’ll research “buffers”, and see what I can add –

             

                        Thanks again,  I really enjoyed your mail!

                                    Lauri

             

             

                       

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8546 From: paul helms Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
            there is absolutely no reason to feed twice a day in
            your situation. if you are going to feed twice, it
            should be what they will eat in 2-3 minutes not 5-10
            minutes. the fish you have are hardy eaters and 20
            minutes of feeding a day would destroy your balance.
            paul
            --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:

            >
            > As for your question about how often to feed, this
            > does not depend
            > upon how many fish you have. For all intents and
            > purposes, twice a
            > day is just fine, no matter how many fish you have.
            > Just remember to
            > feed only enough that they'll clean it up in 5
            > minutes; or 10 minutes
            > at the very most, but be sure they clean it up.
            > Some breeders feed
            > up to 5 times a day for maximum fastest growth, but
            > that's a
            > different situation -- rearing fry up to selling
            > size. This
            > naturally requires more frequent water changes and
            > filter
            > maintenance. Ray
            >
            > \
            >
            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com,
            > angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
            > > I just got two small zebra danios, a cory and
            > another frog. I'm
            > not planning to add anything else for another 3-4
            > weeks. How often
            > should this many fish (4 zebra danios, a cory and 2
            > frogs) be fed?
            > The danios eat the flakes and I have shrimp pellets
            > for the others.
            > >
            > > -------------- Original message --------------
            > >
            > > That's a good sign Angela,
            > >
            > > You can start adding fish in but do it slowly. You
            > can however wait
            > 1 more week for the tank to stabilize as I remember
            > you had reduced
            > the feeding on your fish. Start feeding the fish
            > regularly and
            > monitor both ammonia and nitrite after a week. If
            > things are fine
            > then, it will be safe to add 3-4 more fish.
            > >
            > > Nim
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@c...]
            > > Sent: 14 February 2005 13:39
            > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!
            > >
            > >
            > > I gloomily tested my water AGAIN this morning. To
            > my surprise, the
            > > testtube didn't change to dark purple. It stayed
            > light blue. 0
            > ppm
            > > of nitrites. Then I checked the ammonia, and as
            > usual, none of
            > that
            > > either. I'm so excited. Last week, I took
            > someone's advice (I
            > > can't remember who, but thank you) and removed the
            > nitrazorb, put
            > my
            > > filter pad back in and just waited. It worked.
            > >
            > > Now, for the questions. Does this mean my tank
            > has cycled? Can I
            > > add fish? There something red on some of the tank
            > decorations that
            > > wasn't there last week. What's that? Should I do
            > something about
            > > it? I have two zebra danios and a frog. I'd like
            > to add three
            > more
            > > zebra danios and a cory catfish, if I can get
            > fish.
            > >
            > > Thank you, thank you, thank you for all your help.
            > You are
            > > invaluable.
            > >
            > > Angela
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > please delete this line and everything below it
            > when replying,
            > thanks
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > please delete this line and everything below it
            > when replying,
            > thanks
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > > ADVERTISEMENT
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            > >
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            > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
            > Terms of Service.
            >
            >
            >
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8547 From: eric douglas Date: 2/14/2005
            Subject: Re: Questions about my new fish and snail...
            As far as the snail goes it does not matter how long
            it will live you will have 50 more before the end of
            the week. Ok maybe by the end of the month.



            --- Aranel <aranel@...> wrote:

            > I went to Petsmart yesterday to get some fish, which
            > was a total hassle
            > because they had the guy that stocks dog food
            > working in the fish
            > department. He told me this after he mixed up which
            > fish I wanted three
            > times.
            >
            > But anyway, I got three platies that they had
            > labeled as "dwarfs".
            > They're really small, about the same size a three
            > month old fry. I tried
            > to look them up on google to see how big they would
            > get, but I found
            > nothing about dwarf platies. Lots of stuff about
            > regular ones, which
            > lead me to believe that these are in fact just
            > juvenile platies. Has
            > anyone ever heard of dwarf platies, and if you have,
            > how big will they get?
            >
            > I also got a beautiful red betta for my little
            > sister, a male guppy, and
            > a black mystery snail. By the way, does anyone know
            > how long the snail
            > will live? It's about the size of quarter right now.
            >
            > -Aranel
            >




            __________________________________
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8548 From: Aranel Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Re: Questions about my new fish and snail...
            eric douglas wrote:

            > As far as the snail goes it does not matter how long
            > it will live you will have 50 more before the end of
            > the week. Ok maybe by the end of the month.
            >
            I've had these kinds of snails before and never had that happen.

            -Aranel
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8549 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
            Paul,
             
            What do you suggest, then?  Every other day?
             
            -------------- Original message --------------

            >
            > there is absolutely no reason to feed twice a day in
            > your situation. if you are going to feed twice, it
            > should be what they will eat in 2-3 minutes not 5-10
            > minutes. the fish you have are hardy eaters and 20
            > minutes of feeding a day would destroy your balance.
            > paul
            > --- Ray Wetzel wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > As for your question about how often to feed, this
            > > does not depend
            > > upon how many fish you have. For all intents and
            > > purposes, twice a
            > > day is just fine, no matter how many fish you have.
            > > Just remember to
            > > feed only enough that they'll clean it up in 5
            > > minutes; or 10 minutes
            > > at the very most, but be sure they clean it up.
            > > Some breeders feed
            > > up to 5 times a day for maximum fastest growth, but
            > > that's a
            > > different situation -- rearing fry up to selling
            > > size. This
            > > naturally requires more frequent water changes and
            > > filter
            > > maintenance. Ray
            > >
            > > \
            > >
            > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com,
            > > angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
            > > > I just got two small zebra danios, a cory and
            > > another frog. I'm
            > > not planning to add anything else for another 3-4
            > > weeks. How often
            > > should this many fish (4 zebra danios, a cory and 2
            > > frogs) be fed?
            > > The danios eat the flakes and I have shrimp pellets
            > > for the others.
            > > >
            > > > -------------- Original message --------------
            > > >
            > > > That's a good sign Angela,
            > > >
            > > > You can start adding fish in but do it slowly. You
            > > can however wait
            > > 1 more week for the tank to stabilize as I remember
            > > you had reduced
            > > the feeding on your fish. Start feeding the fish
            > > regularly and
            > > monitor both ammonia and nitrite after a week. If
            > > things are fine
            > > then, it will be safe to add 3-4 more fish.
            > > >
            > > > Nim
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@c...]
            > > > Sent: 14 February 2005 13:39
            > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > I gloomily tested my water AGAIN this morning. To
            > > my surprise, the
            > > > testtube didn't change to dark purple. It stayed
            > > light blue. 0
            > > ppm
            > > > of nitrites. Then I checked the ammonia, and as
            > > usual, none of
            > > that
            > > > either. I'm so excited. Last week, I took
            > > someone's advice (I
            > > > can't remember who, but thank you) and removed the
            > > nitrazorb, put
            > > my
            > > > filter pad back in and just waited. It worked.
            > > >
            > > > Now, for the questions. Does this mean my tank
            > > has cycled? Can I
            > > > add fish? There something red on some of the tank
            > > decorations that
            > > > wasn't there last week. What's that? Should I do
            > > something about
            > > > it? I have two zebra danios and a frog. I'd like
            > > to add three
            > > more
            > > > zebra danios and a cory catfish, if I can get
            > > fish.
            > > >
            > > > Thank you, thank you, thank you for all your help.
            > > You are
            > > > invaluable.
            > > >
            > > > Angela
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > please delete this line and everything below it
            > > when replying,
            > > thanks
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > please delete this line and everything below it
            > > when replying,
            > > thanks
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > > > ADVERTISEMENT
            > > >
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            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            > > >
            > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > > >
            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
            > > Terms of Service.
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            > >
            > >
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            >
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            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8550 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Re: Questions about my new fish and snail...
            You must have had pest snails LOL, those sneak in on plants from pet stores all the time and are a bugger to get rid of once you get "infected"!

            Terri Bryant
            www.RainbowSnails.com




            -------- Original Message --------
            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about my new fish and snail...
            From: "eric douglas" <nicelvguy@...>
            Date: Tue, February 15, 2005 12:53 am
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com

            As far as the snail goes it does not matter how long
            it will live you will have 50 more before the end of
            the week. Ok maybe by the end of the month.



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8551 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Re: Questions about my new fish and snail...
            If it's black with stripes and has a door over it's foot it's a pomacea bridgessi and they can live 2-4 years depending on the temp. of the tank.  Mid 70's and they will live the longest.  They can tolerate up to 82 but will only live about 12-16 months.
            It will get the size of a golf ball when full grown.  Takes about 8 months.


             

            Terri Bryant
            www.RainbowSnails.com




            I also got a beautiful red betta for my little sister, a male guppy, and
            a black mystery snail. By the way, does anyone know how long the snail
            will live? It's about the size of quarter right now.

            -Aranel

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8552 From: CRAIG DAVISON Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: LOL
            sopmebody please tell me what does LOL mean?
            cvraigy1

            terri@... wrote:
            You must have had pest snails LOL, those sneak in on plants from pet stores all the time and are a bugger to get rid of once you get "infected"!

            Terri Bryant
            www.RainbowSnails.com




            -------- Original Message --------
            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about my new fish and snail...
            From: "eric douglas" <nicelvguy@...>
            Date: Tue, February 15, 2005 12:53 am
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com

            As far as the snail goes it does not matter how long
            it will live you will have 50 more before the end of
            the week. Ok maybe by the end of the month.





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





            EASY DOES IT,
            ONE DAY AT A TIME.


            ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8553 From: helen572 Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Re: LOL
            LOL is cyberspeak for "laugh out loud." Personally, I think it leaves
            something to be desired. I write "HaHa" myself, which I think is just
            as easy, and it doesn't mystify some folks.

            Helen

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, CRAIG DAVISON <craigy1012000@y...>
            wrote:
            > sopmebody please tell me what does LOL mean?
            > cvraigy1
            >
            > terri@r... wrote:
            > You must have had pest snails LOL, those sneak in on plants from pet
            stores all the time and are a bugger to get rid of once you get
            "infected"!
            >
            >
            > Terri Bryant
            > www.RainbowSnails.com
            >
            >
            >
            > -------- Original Message --------
            > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about my new fish and snail...
            > From: "eric douglas" <nicelvguy@y...>
            > Date: Tue, February 15, 2005 12:53 am
            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > As far as the snail goes it does not matter how long
            > it will live you will have 50 more before the end of
            > the week. Ok maybe by the end of the month.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
            > document.write('');
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >
            >
            >
            > EASY DOES IT,
            > ONE DAY AT A TIME.
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8554 From: CRAIG DAVISON Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Re: LOL
            Hi Helen
            Thanks very much for taking the trouble to answer,that was starting to bug me LOL
            Ithink you are right HaHa is better.
            craig1

            helen572 <shirleycat@...> wrote:

            LOL is cyberspeak for "laugh out loud."  Personally, I think it leaves
            something to be desired.  I write "HaHa" myself, which I think is just
            as easy, and it doesn't mystify some folks. 

            Helen

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, CRAIG DAVISON <craigy1012000@y...>
            wrote:
            > sopmebody please tell me what does LOL mean?
            > cvraigy1
            >
            > terri@r... wrote:
            > You must have had pest snails LOL, those sneak in on plants from pet
            stores all the time and are a bugger to get rid of once you get
            "infected"!
            >
            >
            > Terri Bryant
            > www.RainbowSnails.com
            >
            >
            >
            > -------- Original Message --------
            > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about my new fish and snail...
            > From: "eric douglas" <nicelvguy@y...>
            > Date: Tue, February 15, 2005 12:53 am
            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > As far as the snail goes it does not matter how long
            > it will live you will have 50 more before the end of
            > the week. Ok maybe by the end of the month.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
            > document.write('');
            >
            > ---------------------------------
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            >
            >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            >  
            >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >  
            >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >
            >
            >
            > EASY DOES IT,
            > ONE DAY AT A TIME.
            >            
            > ---------------------------------
            >  ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





            EASY DOES IT,
            ONE DAY AT A TIME.


            ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8555 From: Aranel Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Re: Questions about my new fish and snail...
            terri@... wrote:
            If it's black with stripes and has a door over it's foot it's a pomacea bridgessi and they can live 2-4 years depending on the temp. of the tank.  Mid 70's and they will live the longest.  They can tolerate up to 82 but will only live about 12-16 months.
            It will get the size of a golf ball when full grown.  Takes about 8 months.


             

            Terri Bryant
            www.RainbowSnails.com

            Yeah that's what this guy looks like! My tank stays at 74 all the time. I know lots of people keep their tanks warmer than that, but my fish have always been happy with it.

            Thanks for the info!

            -Aranel
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8556 From: ophiophthalmos Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Introduction
            I live in the U.S. and keep tropical fish - mainly freshwater angels
            at present as well as goldfish and reptiles.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8557 From: paul helms Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Re: Nitrites!!!!!
            once a day on the flake is fine, and 2 times-3 times a
            week on the pellet is fine
            --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

            > Paul,
            >
            > What do you suggest, then? Every other day?
            >
            > -------------- Original message --------------
            >
            > >
            > > there is absolutely no reason to feed twice a day
            > in
            > > your situation. if you are going to feed twice, it
            >
            > > should be what they will eat in 2-3 minutes not
            > 5-10
            > > minutes. the fish you have are hardy eaters and 20
            >
            > > minutes of feeding a day would destroy your
            > balance.
            > > paul
            > > --- Ray Wetzel wrote:
            > >
            > > >
            > > > As for your question about how often to feed,
            > this
            > > > does not depend
            > > > upon how many fish you have. For all intents and
            >
            > > > purposes, twice a
            > > > day is just fine, no matter how many fish you
            > have.
            > > > Just remember to
            > > > feed only enough that they'll clean it up in 5
            > > > minutes; or 10 minutes
            > > > at the very most, but be sure they clean it up.
            > > > Some breeders feed
            > > > up to 5 times a day for maximum fastest growth,
            > but
            > > > that's a
            > > > different situation -- rearing fry up to selling
            >
            > > > size. This
            > > > naturally requires more frequent water changes
            > and
            > > > filter
            > > > maintenance. Ray
            > > >
            > > > \
            > > >
            > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com,
            > > > angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
            > > > > I just got two small zebra danios, a cory and
            > > > another frog. I'm
            > > > not planning to add anything else for another
            > 3-4
            > > > weeks. How often
            > > > should this many fish (4 zebra danios, a cory
            > and 2
            > > > frogs) be fed?
            > > > The danios eat the flakes and I have shrimp
            > pellets
            > > > for the others.
            > > > >
            > > > > -------------- Original message --------------
            >
            > > > >
            > > > > That's a good sign Angela,
            > > > >
            > > > > You can start adding fish in but do it slowly.
            > You
            > > > can however wait
            > > > 1 more week for the tank to stabilize as I
            > remember
            > > > you had reduced
            > > > the feeding on your fish. Start feeding the fish
            >
            > > > regularly and
            > > > monitor both ammonia and nitrite after a week.
            > If
            > > > things are fine
            > > > then, it will be safe to add 3-4 more fish.
            > > > >
            > > > > Nim
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@c...]
            > > > > Sent: 14 February 2005 13:39
            > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrites!!!!!
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > I gloomily tested my water AGAIN this morning.
            > To
            > > > my surprise, the
            > > > > testtube didn't change to dark purple. It
            > stayed
            > > > light blue. 0
            > > > ppm
            > > > > of nitrites. Then I checked the ammonia, and
            > as
            > > > usual, none of
            > > > that
            > > > > either. I'm so excited. Last week, I took
            > > > someone's advice (I
            > > > > can't remember who, but thank you) and removed
            > the
            > > > nitrazorb, put
            > > > my
            > > > > filter pad back in and just waited. It worked.
            >
            > > > >
            > > > > Now, for the questions. Does this mean my tank
            >
            > > > has cycled? Can I
            > > > > add fish? There something red on some of the
            > tank
            > > > decorations that
            > > > > wasn't there last week. What's that? Should I
            > do
            > > > something about
            > > > > it? I have two zebra danios and a frog. I'd
            > like
            > > > to add three
            > > > more
            > > > > zebra danios and a cory catfish, if I can get
            > > > fish.
            > > > >
            > > > > Thank you, thank you, thank you for all your
            > help.
            > > > You are
            > > > > invaluable.
            > > > >
            > > > > Angela
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > please delete this line and everything below
            > it
            > > > when replying,
            > > > thanks
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > please delete this line and everything below
            > it
            > > > when replying,
            > > > thanks
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > > > > ADVERTISEMENT
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > > >
            > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            > > > >
            > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
            > to:
            > > > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > > > >
            > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
            > Yahoo!
            > > > Terms of Service.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > __________________________________
            > > Do you Yahoo!?
            > > All your favorites on one personal page � Try My
            > Yahoo!
            > > http://my.yahoo.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > please delete this line and everything below it
            > when replying, thanks
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            === message truncated ===




            __________________________________
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            The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8558 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Re: Introduction
            welcome to the group

            rob
            Indiana
            USa


            In a message dated 2/15/2005 1:28:50 PM US Eastern Standard Time, tomjean@... writes:


            I live in the U.S. and keep tropical fish - mainly freshwater angels
            at present as well as goldfish and reptiles.


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8559 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Re: LOL
            I prefer to simply put :).         :) 
             
            Patrick
            -------Original Message-------
            Hi Helen
            Thanks very much for taking the trouble to answer,that was starting to bug me LOL
            Ithink you are right HaHa is better.
            craig1
            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8560 From: thetropiclady Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Just joined
            Good day ya'll. My name is DJ. I live in SW Floida, USA. I have a 150
            gal fresh tank with three Parrot fish, two Kissing fish & a hand full
            of odd ball tiny fish , like cats, algae eaters & Danios & a few
            chinese algae eaters. I also have three ponds & two water gardens with
            greens. The ponds have Koi, Comets & Fancy Gold fish, Placostomus,
            American Flag fish, Mollies, Channel Cats & a Red Ear Slider Turtle,
            that has his own pond. The Turtle's name is Deasel, DH is a truck
            driver. LOL
            I have a few questions. I had Fancy Gold Fish inside, in the 150
            gal tank. They would get swim bladder problems. I put them outside in
            the big pond & they are fine. WHY? The inside tank is Planted, I turn
            Half the lights off mMd-day. I have a bubbler. I don't know why the
            gold fish always suffewred from swim balader problems inside.
            My other queston is. I have three Parrot Fish inside & two Kissing
            fish. Both are about the size of a beer can lid, plus a little.
            What other fish can I add to this tank, without problems. Can I add
            the same size or better Angels? Or would they get picked on?
            Thanks, DJ
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8561 From: Steve Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: The Planted Tank Forum - ADA Gallery Pictures * My Trip To Japan* W
            Picked this link up off another list. For those of you who are using live
            plants in your tanks, these pictures may give you an idea or two.

            WARNING!!! Graphics intensive page. If you are using a 56K modem, go cook
            your supper <g>.

            <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14399>

            \\Steve//
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8562 From: Steve Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Re: LOL
            For a listing of various acronyms used in online environments, take a look
            at this listing:

            <http://acronymsonline.com/lists/chat_acronyms.asp>

            If you click on the title of the page, you will be taken to the home page of
            this site, and find more acronyms than you may wish to know about, as well
            as some other handy goodies.

            I see that you have been told that LOL is "laughing out loud". These
            acronyms have developed over the years to enhance one's online experience.

            FWIW (For What It's Worth), and really going off topic for this list,
            tomorrow (Feb. 16th) is the 23 anniversary of the first electronic bulletin
            board (BBS) in the world. The BBS is the precursor to all the listservs we
            now have to communicate electronically with each other. The operation was
            built by two fellows in two weeks, thanks to a blizzard and a bucket of
            spare parts, and ran on a 8 MHz CPU with 64K (as in KILOBYTES) with an 8"
            floppy that held an amazing 178 KB of data. The front door was a 300 baud
            modem (and you think 56K is slow) that allowed one person at a time access.
            So, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!

            \\Steve//
            -----Original Message-----
            From: CRAIG DAVISON [mailto:craigy1012000@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 11:57 AM
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] LOL


            sopmebody please tell me what does LOL mean?
            cvraigy1

            terri@... wrote:
            You must have had pest snails LOL, those sneak in on plants from pet stores
            all the time and are a bugger to get rid of once you get "infected"!


            Terri Bryant
            www.RainbowSnails.com
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8563 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Missing fish!!!!!!!!! no aggressive fish in tank
            Hello,
            today I noticed that my prettiest red tailed guppy was
            missing!!!!!!!!!!! I've looked everywhere and there nothing no bones
            tail pieces anything. I did notice to other fish have messed up tail.
            I don't have any mean fish just one danio that chases everyone but
            I've never seen him eat or peck at anyone. He was so pretty!!!!!!! I'm
            sad!!!!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8564 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Re: Missing fish!!!!!!!!! no aggressive fish in tank
              check your filter .. its more than likely there ..
            at least that's where mine always disappear too..
            Linda M.
             
            Hello,
              today I noticed that my prettiest red tailed guppy was
            missing!!!!!!!!!!! I've looked everywhere and there nothing no bones
            tail pieces anything. I did notice to other fish have messed up tail.
            I don't have any mean fish just one danio that chases everyone but
            I've never seen him eat or peck at anyone. He was so pretty!!!!!!! I'm
            sad!!!!

             
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8565 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Re: Missing fish!!!!!!!!! no aggressive fish in tank
            Yup checked there moved the filter and nothing. but alot of dead
            plantpieces and yucky stuff went all over my tank. I think he may have
            been eating after dying although he didn't look like anything was
            wrong with him.


            > check your filter .. its more than likely there ..
            > at least that's where mine always disappear too..
            > Linda M.
            >
            >
            > Hello,
            > today I noticed that my prettiest red tailed guppy was
            > missing!!!!!!!!!!! I've looked everywhere and there nothing no bones
            > tail pieces anything. I did notice to other fish have messed up tail.
            > I don't have any mean fish just one danio that chases everyone but
            > I've never seen him eat or peck at anyone. He was so pretty!!!!!!! I'm
            > sad!!!!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8566 From: paul helms Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Re: Missing fish!!!!!!!!! no aggressive fish in tank
            danios get very aggressive when not in groups, would
            not doubt he killed him
            --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

            >
            > Hello,
            > today I noticed that my prettiest red tailed guppy
            > was
            > missing!!!!!!!!!!! I've looked everywhere and there
            > nothing no bones
            > tail pieces anything. I did notice to other fish
            > have messed up tail.
            > I don't have any mean fish just one danio that
            > chases everyone but
            > I've never seen him eat or peck at anyone. He was so
            > pretty!!!!!!! I'm
            > sad!!!!
            >
            >
            >
            >




            __________________________________
            Do you Yahoo!?
            The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
            http://my.yahoo.com
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8567 From: sdaccord03 Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: New photos on myreeftank.us
            Hey everyone. Thanks Angela for the kind comments. I have taken a
            few more pics and put them up on the nano-reef page. They are the
            last two at the bottom.

            My anemone is now about 6" in diameter. He is outgrowing my tank
            quickly and yet he seems happy. I may have to switch him to my 55
            gallon tank soon and hope he doesn't get eaten by my peppermint
            shrimp.

            Anyways, I hope everyone's tanks are doing well. Good luck to the
            nitrite girl it sounds like you know what you're doing.

            Jimmy
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8568 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Re: Missing fish!!!!!!!!! no aggressive fish in tank
            I have 2 danios (from cycling) they've been in there a year but the
            guppy only for about a month. So that could be, he's always chasing
            everyone but I've never seen him actually touch another fish just
            chase them.


            > danios get very aggressive when not in groups, would
            > not doubt he killed him
            > --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@H...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > Hello,
            > > today I noticed that my prettiest red tailed guppy
            > > was
            > > missing!!!!!!!!!!! I've looked everywhere and there
            > > nothing no bones
            > > tail pieces anything. I did notice to other fish
            > > have messed up tail.
            > > I don't have any mean fish just one danio that
            > > chases everyone but
            > > I've never seen him eat or peck at anyone. He was so
            > > pretty!!!!!!! I'm
            > > sad!!!!
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
            > http://my.yahoo.com
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8569 From: Aaron Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Re: The Planted Tank Forum - ADA Gallery Pictures * My Trip To Japa
            Awesome site - thanks


            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <steve@f...> wrote:
            > Picked this link up off another list. For those of you who are
            using live
            > plants in your tanks, these pictures may give you an idea or two.
            >
            > WARNING!!! Graphics intensive page. If you are using a 56K modem,
            go cook
            > your supper <g>.
            >
            > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14399>
            >
            > \\Steve//
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8570 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Can i add two Bettas to my tank?
            Hi,

            Got a 90 Gallon (300 liter) ish tank.

            5 Tiger Barbs,
            3 Silver Sharks,
            1 Bristle Nose,
            1 KoryDory,
            1 Flying Fox,
            30ish Guppies.

            and 40ish Guppie babys in two breeding tanks.


            My friend wants to give me his two Bettas cause he thinks hes being
            mean keeping them in a litre of water, and he would feel better
            seing them in my tank which is (a lot) bigger.


            =Nick
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8571 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/15/2005
            Subject: Re: Can i add two Bettas to my tank?

            Nopes,  Betta cannot go with Tiger barbs or flying fox or guppies. They may  be able to go with the guppies but then male guppies are considered rivals and vice versa for guppies.

             

            I think a Betta will prefer to be in a small 2-5 gallon tank or even a 1 litre tank rather then a 90 gallon one with tiger barbs,

             

            NIm

             

             


            From: Nicolas J. Munro [mailto:nedarg@...]
            Sent: 16 February 2005 07:00
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Can i add two Bettas to my tank?

             


            Hi,

            Got a 90 Gallon (300 liter) ish tank.

            5 Tiger Barbs,
            3 Silver Sharks,
            1 Bristle Nose,
            1 KoryDory,
            1 Flying Fox,
            30ish Guppies.

            and 40ish Guppie babys in two breeding tanks.


            My friend wants to give me his two Bettas cause he thinks hes being
            mean keeping them in a litre of water, and he would feel better
            seing them in my tank which is (a lot) bigger.


            =Nick





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8572 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 2/16/2005
            Subject: Re: Can i add two Bettas to my tank?
            It really depends on the Bettas. If they are two males, most likely
            not, unless there are a lot of plantings that they can divide up
            between them. I have our male bettas in community tanks with fancy
            guppies, angelfish, oscars, tetras, and cories, and one of the tanks
            has a male and a female...but it took a while to find a male and
            female that could coexist peaceably. One male betta several years
            ago couldn't share a tank with guppies without nipping at their
            tails, but the two we have now don't seem to mind the guppies at
            all. The bettas really love the extra room, you can tell.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8573 From: Angela Date: 2/16/2005
            Subject: Frog Died!
            This morning the frog I got on Monday was dead - stuck up against
            the filter tube. He had spent most of yesterday up at the top of
            the tank, like he needed air. I checked my water and it was fine,
            only the ph was a little high (7.5), but that's what it was on
            Monday. Could the ph have killed him? What else could it have
            been? My other frog (been in the tank about 4 weeks) is fine.

            Angela
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8574 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/16/2005
            Subject: Re: Frog Died!

            Maybe just the after effects of Nitrite. PH does not kill. If the fish has been exposed to ammonia or nitrite, it does suffer its effects for longer then it has been in there. I cannot say if the same is true for the frogs as I have never kept them.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 16 February 2005 13:16
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Frog Died!

             


            This morning the frog I got on Monday was dead - stuck up against
            the filter tube.  He had spent most of yesterday up at the top of
            the tank, like he needed air.  I checked my water and it was fine,
            only the ph was a little high (7.5), but that's what it was on
            Monday.  Could the ph have killed him?  What else could it have
            been?  My other frog (been in the tank about 4 weeks) is fine.

            Angela





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8575 From: paul helms Date: 2/16/2005
            Subject: Re: Can i add two Bettas to my tank?
            not a good idea, they would probably kill each other,
            and also, the barbs would tearthem apart
            --- "Nicolas J. Munro" <nedarg@...> wrote:

            >
            > Hi,
            >
            > Got a 90 Gallon (300 liter) ish tank.
            >
            > 5 Tiger Barbs,
            > 3 Silver Sharks,
            > 1 Bristle Nose,
            > 1 KoryDory,
            > 1 Flying Fox,
            > 30ish Guppies.
            >
            > and 40ish Guppie babys in two breeding tanks.
            >
            >
            > My friend wants to give me his two Bettas cause he
            > thinks hes being
            > mean keeping them in a litre of water, and he would
            > feel better
            > seing them in my tank which is (a lot) bigger.
            >
            >
            > =Nick
            >
            >
            >
            >




            __________________________________
            Do you Yahoo!?
            Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
            http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8576 From: eggybumstu Date: 2/16/2005
            Subject: hello
            Hi I'm new to the group but have been into fish for five years now.
            I currently have two tanks running one 400litre and a 100litre. In
            the small tank I have 2 beautiful orange sailfin mollies, a pair of
            high fin swordtails, 2 cloan loach, 2 pepper corys, 8 cardinal
            tetra, 1 bristlenose plec and 2 female and ! glorious red lyre tail
            betta splendens. The larger tank has 2 butterfly fish, 2 gourami (a
            pearl and three spot) 3 clown loach, 1 large black ghost knife fish,
            a yoyo loach, one large sailfin a bristlenose and yellow spot plec,
            4 mollies, 4 boseman rainbows, a pair of red rainbows, a parkinsoni
            rainbow and a fantastic Mbu puffer.

            I am currently focusing on the plant side of the tank as I feel I've
            got the fish I want.

            I look forward to getting involved here

            Cheers STU
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8577 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/16/2005
            Subject: Re: Can i add two Bettas to my tank?
            Your tiger barbs would fin nip the bettas to death I agree with Nim keep them in the smaller tank, not with the barbs.


            In a message dated 2/16/2005 2:45:23 AM US Eastern Standard Time,

            I think a Betta will prefer to be in a small 2-5 gallon tank or even a 1 litre tank rather then a 90 gallon one with tiger barbs,




            NIm





            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8578 From: EDITHAN1@AOL.COM Date: 2/16/2005
            Subject: expanding on betta subject
            would it be ok to put one in my community tank of livebearers?
            20 gals size and a 30 gallon bow front show tank.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8579 From: eggybumstu Date: 2/16/2005
            Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife Question
            I have one of these great fish and have had no trouble when feeding
            frozen bloodworm but found that if you thaw the block in a cup
            before adding to the tank then the other fish dont seem to rob it
            all before the knife gets a look in. I agree with the other advice
            given that they are nocturnal and will hunt for food at night but
            feeding during lights on time allows you to se the fascinating
            feeders. I tend to feed the fish when the lights are on but maybe
            twice a week drop some bloodworm at night to keep them happy

            Hope that helps Stu

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Iksnip@a... wrote:
            > Hi Guys,
            >
            > apparently I am asking questions tonight on my various breeds of
            fish.
            > Regarding his feeding regiment. I bought some blood worms, shrimp
            pellets, and
            > beef hearts for him and put a beef heart and some pellets in
            tonight. Obviously
            > the mollies went right after it even though I kind of hid it in
            his little
            > cave. Question, I know this fish needs to be fed regularly, how
            often is
            > regularly from people's experiences? I am trying to keep him
            healthy but fed so he
            > doesnt eat my tetras
            >
            > thanks
            >
            > Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8580 From: eggybumstu Date: 2/16/2005
            Subject: Re: Can i add two Bettas to my tank?
            Hi there, I assume that the bettas you refer to are a male and
            female as two males in a litre of water would very cruel indeed not
            to mention a mini armageddon. If your tiger barbs seem to leave the
            long flowin fins of the guppies alone then you may find the bettas
            will be ok. In such a big tank you may find the bettas to be ok as
            the male will find his own territory as long as some cover
            Planting Giant Vallis will give the neccessary cover at the top
            levels of the tank where the bettas hang out and they look cool with
            their meter long leaves swaying in the floy of a pump outlet. As a
            safety precaution you could floata small plastic tank with bettas in
            for a week or two to see if the other fish bother them

            Good Luck, Stu


            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas J. Munro" <nedarg@h...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hi,
            >
            > Got a 90 Gallon (300 liter) ish tank.
            >
            > 5 Tiger Barbs,
            > 3 Silver Sharks,
            > 1 Bristle Nose,
            > 1 KoryDory,
            > 1 Flying Fox,
            > 30ish Guppies.
            >
            > and 40ish Guppie babys in two breeding tanks.
            >
            >
            > My friend wants to give me his two Bettas cause he thinks hes
            being
            > mean keeping them in a litre of water, and he would feel better
            > seing them in my tank which is (a lot) bigger.
            >
            >
            > =Nick
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8581 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/16/2005
            Subject: Re: expanding on betta subject
            We have had  multiple females in the same tank, the smaller livebearers picked on/ and fin nipped  the bettas until we removed them.
            Your male  betta MIGHT do ok in a livebearer tank. BUT WATCH them closely if you have sailfin mollies,Fancy guppies or any other fish with big fins, as the finnage on these fish might be mistaken for another male betta.
            Bettas are fighting fish, Male vs Male will kill each other. So if your other fish are mistaken for a male Betta the fight could be On..........

            I'd suggest trying it but watch them closely just incase...


            rob
            Indiana
            USA


            In a message dated 2/16/2005 1:20:06 PM US Eastern Standard Time, EDITHAN1@... writes:


            would it be ok to put one in my community tank of livebearers?

            20 gals size and a 30 gallon bow front show tank.


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8582 From: EDITHAN1@AOL.COM Date: 2/16/2005
            Subject: Re: expanding on betta subject
            thanks for the quick reply!
            i think i will leave the betta out, i dont have one yet, and was just wondering.
            i do have all the pretty finnage fish, mollies, guppies and i just ran across long/high fin platties!
            i just had to have some to add to the tank and fell in love with them. i put them in w/ my tuxedo and mickey mouse platties.
            i dont believe in mixing the breed unless i plan on keeping them for myself.
            i just like to see how they turn out. i dont separate pregnant females, so therefore only the strongest survive, i pretty much leave my tanks alone and let nature take its course.
            my tanks are alwo heavily planted to balance things too.
            ibought a fern from someone in this group abiout 6 months ago, and i have divided it 4X the root system +plus, taken the "babies" from the leaves and started 6 new plants!
            gotta love it!
             
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8583 From: Aaron Date: 2/16/2005
            Subject: Re: hello
            Hi,

            Welcome to the group.

            Aaron

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "eggybumstu" <eggybumstu@y...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hi I'm new to the group but have been into fish for five years
            now.
            > I currently have two tanks running one 400litre and a 100litre. In
            > the small tank I have 2 beautiful orange sailfin mollies, a pair
            of
            > high fin swordtails, 2 cloan loach, 2 pepper corys, 8 cardinal
            > tetra, 1 bristlenose plec and 2 female and ! glorious red lyre
            tail
            > betta splendens. The larger tank has 2 butterfly fish, 2 gourami
            (a
            > pearl and three spot) 3 clown loach, 1 large black ghost knife
            fish,
            > a yoyo loach, one large sailfin a bristlenose and yellow spot
            plec,
            > 4 mollies, 4 boseman rainbows, a pair of red rainbows, a
            parkinsoni
            > rainbow and a fantastic Mbu puffer.
            >
            > I am currently focusing on the plant side of the tank as I feel
            I've
            > got the fish I want.
            >
            > I look forward to getting involved here
            >
            > Cheers STU
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8584 From: Aaron Date: 2/16/2005
            Subject: Re: expanding on betta subject
            A single Male Betta in a community tank of Livebearers is a great
            way to control the population, meaning he will try to eat as many
            babies as they produce, sorta like a built in vacation feeder for
            the Betta.

            If your intention is to breed the Livebearers, it would be better to
            have lots of plants for the fry to hide in.

            I have a Male Betta in my 55gallon community tank of mostly
            Livebearers with lots of plants and driftwood. Some of the fry do
            get consumed, not just by the betta, most survive long enough to get
            transfered into a 20 gallon tank of thier own. Survival of the
            fittest and all.

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, EDITHAN1@A... wrote:
            > would it be ok to put one in my community tank of livebearers?
            > 20 gals size and a 30 gallon bow front show tank.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8585 From: Aaron Date: 2/16/2005
            Subject: Re: Just joined
            Hi,

            Welcome to the group!

            Sorry, I have not enough experience yet to accurately answer your
            questions, so I came up with some of my own. :*)

            Are your ponds heated? I assumed Plecos and Mollies were tropical
            and could not survive cold weather. (What are American Flag Fish and
            Channel Cats?)

            I've heard Angels can be aggressive, but the danios I've had were
            all fast swimmers and could probably be ok, I don't know about the
            Parrot or Kissing fish.

            Aaron

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "thetropiclady" <odah2u@c...>
            wrote:
            >
            >
            > Good day ya'll. My name is DJ. I live in SW Floida, USA. I have a
            150
            > gal fresh tank with three Parrot fish, two Kissing fish & a hand
            full
            > of odd ball tiny fish , like cats, algae eaters & Danios & a few
            > chinese algae eaters. I also have three ponds & two water gardens
            with
            > greens. The ponds have Koi, Comets & Fancy Gold fish, Placostomus,
            > American Flag fish, Mollies, Channel Cats & a Red Ear Slider
            Turtle,
            > that has his own pond. The Turtle's name is Deasel, DH is a truck
            > driver. LOL
            > I have a few questions. I had Fancy Gold Fish inside, in the 150
            > gal tank. They would get swim bladder problems. I put them outside
            in
            > the big pond & they are fine. WHY? The inside tank is Planted, I
            turn
            > Half the lights off mMd-day. I have a bubbler. I don't know why the
            > gold fish always suffewred from swim balader problems inside.
            > My other queston is. I have three Parrot Fish inside & two Kissing
            > fish. Both are about the size of a beer can lid, plus a little.
            > What other fish can I add to this tank, without problems. Can I add
            > the same size or better Angels? Or would they get picked on?
            > Thanks, DJ
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8586 From: Aranel Date: 2/16/2005
            Subject: Re: Can i add two Bettas to my tank?
            Nimish Mathur wrote:

            They may  be able to go with the guppies but then male guppies are considered rivals and vice versa for guppies.

             

            My male betta is in a 29 gallon with guppies, cories, a gourami, platies, and mollies and I've never had any problems. I've kept three male bettas in this type of tank, the first two died of old age and the one in there now is a young fellow. I think it really depends on the betta's personality.

            -Aranel
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8587 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/16/2005
            Subject: Re: Can i add two Bettas to my tank?
               I'd read a story years ago about someone keeping generations of Bettas' together, in the same tank, so I looked for same in GOOGLE. The following link describes 6 males living together. Betta fry, kept in the same tank, seemed to have established a non-violent pecking-order, which reflects the story I read in a fish-publication years ago.
                                                     http://www.guppylog.com/story/2004/11/18/221140/36
             
                                                                    Joe Pascavage
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            Nimish Mathur wrote:

            They may  be able to go with the guppies but then male guppies are considered rivals and vice versa for guppies.

             

            My male betta is in a 29 gallon with guppies, cories, a gourami, platies, and mollies and I've never had any problems. I've kept three male bettas in this type of tank, the first two died of old age and the one in there now is a young fellow. I think it really depends on the betta's personality.

            -Aranel


            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8588 From: eggybumstu Date: 2/16/2005
            Subject: Re: expanding on betta question
            I agree with Aaron here, I have a male and two females in a tank
            with mollies and swordtails and they all get along fine. as long as
            there is enough places of refuge then the fish feel more secure and
            safe. I assume we are talking about betta splendens here as there
            are a number of other betta breeds that seem to go better in a com
            tank. EDITHAN, if you don't have one of these then I agree that you
            shouldn't get one "just to see" Anyone else that has a betta and
            wishes to add to a com tank ensure there is enough cover and not a
            fast water flow. Before adding the bettas to the tank float them in
            a clear plastic tank to see if the other fish take an interest
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8589 From: eggybumstu Date: 2/16/2005
            Subject: Re: just joined
            Its possible that your fancy goldfish were not actually suffering
            form the bacterial swim bladder problem but a reaction to dried fodd
            that is often given to them. They basically get constiption which
            asffect the ability to swim. Many fancy fish seem to suffer from
            this problem as their body is short all the organs are cramped into
            a smaller cavity, so if the fish is bunged up the swim bladder could
            be affected this way. I have found that male betta splendens also
            suffer from this when fed dried food and it disappears when fed wet
            foods such as bloodworm and daphnia which has a laxative effect. I
            can only assume that your fancy goldfish are feeding on all the
            little wet critters in the pond which is keping them regular!!!!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8590 From: eggybumstu Date: 2/16/2005
            Subject: Re: tank mates for parrots and kissing gourami
            The problem here is that parrots can be quite aggressive. As your
            fish are in with your gouramis and I assume they get along fine so
            you my be ok to add some new tank mates. I suggest you look into a
            group of 3-4 clown loaches but ensure they have some cover or any
            type of plec apart form the large ones would be ok too. The best
            fish I think you could try are a group of rainbow fish,
            particularly red rainbows, bosemani rainbows or blue rainbows.
            These fish when kept in groups give great colour and activity to any
            large tank. I recommend a group of 4 or larger with mixed sexes and
            you'll see the males display at the girls and towards rival males
            with their stunning colours. They may look drab in the store but
            they soon colour up in a larger tank and you will not be
            disapointed. These are one of my favourite fish as they are a
            beautiful non-aggressive fish that are fairly undemanding, I have 7
            of these in my 400litre and they are great.
            This link has some good info and some little vids to show you them
            in action

            http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/cyprinids/rainbows.htm#top2

            Good luck, Stu
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8591 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Can i add two Bettas to my tank?
            Ok, THANKS FOR THE GROUPS COMMENTS! :)

            I'll float the betta in my breeding tank to see if the fish like it
            or not...


            I'll keep yas posted!

            PS: Lastnight prior to my mate bringing the bettas over one jumped
            its barrier between them and killed the other so alas there is only
            one blue one with tattered fins left. I presume it must be male.


            =Nick
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8592 From: LauriT Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Per responses about ghost knife fish

            It was posted that there are African and S. American knife fish

             

            here is a site with video showing the African species

            they look very different from eachother

             

            http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/wild/knifefish_african_black.htm#top2

             

            Lauri

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8593 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Per responses about ghost knife fish

            Lauri,

             

            This is a African Black knife fish. The South American Black ghost knife fish is something totally different and in no way even related to the black knife. Black knife and its relatives (Clown knife, royal knife, brown African knife etc. ) are all core predators and carnivorous species. Black ghost knife is more of a mormyrid related to the peter’s elephant nose and the likes. Fish with a better developed brain then most other species and having the capability to use sonar and electrical impulses.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: LauriT [mailto:aktahi@...]
            Sent: 17 February 2005 09:25
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Per responses about ghost knife fish

             

            It was posted that there are African and S. American knife fish

             

            here is a site with video showing the African species

            they look very different from eachother

             

            http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/wild/knifefish_african_black.htm#top2

             

            Lauri



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8594 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: expanding on betta subject

            That’s right Aaron, but you must also agree that a male betta is susceptible to attacks by any slightly aggressive fish which can be a livebearer. More chances of male livebearers becoming aggressive in a smaller tank then in a bigger one. And if once they realize that  betta fins are easy meal, you probably can never keep a betta with them ever.

             

            I have had many such experiences and I would prefer to keep my betta with my gold barbs rather then with the guppies and sword tails that I had. Infact, my platy is so ferocious that it has been living fine and perfectly in a Mbuna tank and sometimes does manage to chase around a couple of labs. Very weird, but true.

            http://www.nimmat.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=&pos=2 a link to show livebearer capabilities J.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Aaron [mailto:massagetherapist@...]
            Sent: 16 February 2005 21:45
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: expanding on betta subject

             


            A single Male Betta in a community tank of Livebearers is a great
            way to control the population, meaning he will try to eat as many
            babies as they produce, sorta like a built in vacation feeder for
            the Betta.

            If your intention is to breed the Livebearers, it would be better to
            have lots of plants for the fry to hide in.

            I have a Male Betta in my 55gallon community tank of mostly
            Livebearers with lots of plants and driftwood. Some of the fry do
            get consumed, not just by the betta, most survive long enough to get
            transfered into a 20 gallon tank of thier own. Survival of the
            fittest and all.

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, EDITHAN1@A... wrote:
            > would it be ok to put one in my community tank of livebearers?
            > 20 gals size and a 30 gallon bow front show tank.





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8595 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Per responses about ghost knife fish
            well looking at that, mine is definetly the South American species then. Why then is he assassinating my Cory and tetras. At least I assume it was him...then again I just had two dalmation mollies pass and I am not so sure they would kill a fish that size. The problem is my water chemistry is still showing only .25 ammonia

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8596 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Per responses about ghost knife fish

            “Only”????? 0.25 ammonia over a few days exposure can and will be toxic to the fish. I would say rather the ammonia killed the fish instead of the ghost knife. What are you doing that’s keeping the ammonia there?

             

            How big is the black ghost knife that you added in?

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Iksnip@... [mailto:Iksnip@...]
            Sent: 17 February 2005 14:45
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Per responses about ghost knife fish

             

            well looking at that, mine is definetly the South American species then.  Why then is he assassinating my Cory and tetras.  At least I assume it was him...then again I just had two dalmation mollies pass and I am not so sure they would kill a fish that size.  The problem is my water chemistry is still showing only .25 ammonia

            Ken


            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8597 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Per responses about ghost knife fish
            well, the tank has been running for a couple of weeks and the ammonia has held steady at that point. Unforunately I cant seem to get it to zero. You are correct, .25 amonia is high and unacceptble over the long term health of the fish. So how do I reduce it?

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8598 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Per responses about ghost knife fish

            Ken,

            Have you checked for Nitrites? If the tank has been running for a couple of weeks only then it has just started a cycle process. The best thing to do is to sit back for the moment and let the tank cycle. Keep checking Ammonia and Nitrites (ITES not ATES) and if either of them suddenly rise, do a 50% water change. BGK should not have been purchased when the tank has not been cycled. It may not survive the stress.

             

            If you need more information of what a Nitrogen cycle is, search for a posyt by Patrick and check his signature, he has a nice article there.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Iksnip@... [mailto:Iksnip@...]
            Sent: 17 February 2005 15:18
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Per responses about ghost knife fish

             

            well, the tank has been running for a couple of weeks and the ammonia has held steady at that point.  Unforunately I cant seem to get it to zero.  You are correct, .25 amonia is high and unacceptble over the long term health of the fish.  So how do I reduce it?

            Ken


            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8599 From: paul helms Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Per responses about ghost knife fish
            if you reduce it you will interrupt your cycle and
            make it take much longer. cycle takes 4-6 weeks from
            day one with no fish...can take longer in your
            situation because there may be too much life in the
            tank for the developing biology to support, and
            frequent water changes will slow down the process but
            save the fish
            --- Iksnip@... wrote:

            > well, the tank has been running for a couple of
            > weeks and the ammonia has held steady at that point.
            > Unforunately I cant seem to get it to zero. You
            > are correct, .25 amonia is high and unacceptble over
            > the long term health of the fish. So how do I
            > reduce it?
            >
            > Ken
            >




            __________________________________
            Do you Yahoo!?
            The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
            http://my.yahoo.com
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8600 From: paul helms Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Per responses about ghost knife fish
            ammonia should be 0.
            --- Iksnip@... wrote:

            > well looking at that, mine is definetly the South
            > American species then. Why then is he assassinating
            > my Cory and tetras. At least I assume it was
            > him...then again I just had two dalmation mollies
            > pass and I am not so sure they would kill a fish
            > that size. The problem is my water chemistry is
            > still showing only .25 ammonia
            >
            > Ken
            >




            __________________________________
            Do you Yahoo!?
            The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
            http://my.yahoo.com
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8601 From: Angela Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Another Question - I do have so many!
            I have snails. My fish store person said they probably came from
            the live plants I got last week. She said I could add something to
            the water to get rid of them. What should I do? I see about 3 tiny
            little snails -smaller than the eraser of a pencil. She also said
            the fish may eat them - 4 zebra danios, 1 emerald catfish, and 2
            frogs. What do you think?

            Thanks again for all your help. I'm just so happy the cycling seems
            to be over.

            Angela
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8602 From: sdaccord03 Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
            You can either leave them in or take them out. On the one hand, they
            will eat any algae you may have. But they will probably also eat
            your live plants (hence that is why they arrived with them). I keep
            snails purposely in my tank but I have no live plants. Probably best
            to get rid of them unless you like plants with holes in them.

            JW

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Angela" <angelasjenkins@c...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I have snails. My fish store person said they probably came from
            > the live plants I got last week. She said I could add something to
            > the water to get rid of them. What should I do? I see about 3
            tiny
            > little snails -smaller than the eraser of a pencil. She also said
            > the fish may eat them - 4 zebra danios, 1 emerald catfish, and 2
            > frogs. What do you think?
            >
            > Thanks again for all your help. I'm just so happy the cycling
            seems
            > to be over.
            >
            > Angela
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8603 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Nim's pics
            Nim,
            Thats a great picture of the Platty in the Cichlid tank. As soon as those plants start spreading out that tank will look GREAT !. It looks pretty good now, but in a few months it should look even better...

            keep up the good work
            Rob
            NE Indiana
            USA
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8604 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Per responses about ghost knife fish
            I really meant to say the tank has been running a few weeks at this point. How many, i woudl say 4 I believe. but I agree, I probably should have waited a little longer

            Ken
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8605 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Nim's pics

            Thanks Rob, this tank is specifically very new. I am still getting some more mbunas in there to overcrowd it as it is a small 30 gallon tank.

            I have had problems with vallis taking over a tank but this time I do want them to.

            http://www.nimmat.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=10 that’s one of the bigger tanks I had but has been redone at the moment to wipe out the weed like growing plants. Still in process and will get some pictures when its up and running.

             

            Thanks,

            Nim

             

             


            From: FortWayneFish@... [mailto:FortWayneFish@...]
            Sent: 17 February 2005 18:26
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Nim's pics

             

            Nim,
            Thats a great picture of the Platty in the Cichlid tank. As soon as those plants start spreading out that tank will look GREAT !. It looks pretty good now, but in a few months it should look even better...

            keep up the good work
            Rob
            NE Indiana
            USA


            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8606 From: dragon6435@aol.com Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
            I'll throw my 25 cents worth in with regards to nuisance snails.  I was so overrun with them in the first tank I set up (after years of not having a tank) I asked at the pet shop what to do and they pointed me to a product that was supposed to rid the tank of snails but not harm the plants or fish.  I used it and within two days all my plants died and I lost several fish.  I now follow what I formerly felt was cruel and crush all the snails I find.  Sometimes my fish will eat the carcass as it floats down, otherwise I suspect my cleaning crew get them. 

            The lesson is to always rise off live plants thoroughly to minimize the introduction of pests into your tank.  I do this religiously now, and still get a few snails now and then.  "Crush".

            While we're on the subject of snails, of the several tanks I'm running, 3 of the 4 have higher nitrates than they should.  The 4th tank doesn't and everthing I do to lower the count in the other three never seems to help.  Trying to figure out what the common demoninator in this equation might be I could only come up with the 3 high count tanks housing fancy snails, large apple snails and rams horn to be precise.  Two days ago, I removed all the snails and put them into a separate tank.  I'm going to check the chemistry over the next few days and see if this helps.  Doing a couple of water changes in conjunction with this.  All my tanks are heavily planted so we'll see.  The fish themselves don't seem to be bothered by the count, but it still bugs me so experimentation is on.

            Linda
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8607 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
            I'll have to wait until tomorrow to get the snails.  My kids seem to like them as much as they like the fish.  I count three very small snails.  Is it true that they reproduce rapidly?  I think I'll wait and see what happens.  If several more appear, I'll just pick them out.
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            I'll throw my 25 cents worth in with regards to nuisance snails.  I was so overrun with them in the first tank I set up (after years of not having a tank) I asked at the pet shop what to do and they pointed me to a product that was supposed to rid the tank of snails but not harm the plants or fish.  I used it and within two days all my plants died and I lost several fish.  I now follow what I formerly felt was cruel and crush all the snails I find.  Sometimes my fish will eat the carcass as it floats down, otherwise I suspect my cleaning crew get them. 

            The lesson is to always rise off live plants thoroughly to minimize the introduction of pests into your tank.  I do this religiously now, and still get a few snails now and then.  "Crush".

            While we're on the subject of snails, of the several tanks I'm running, 3 of the 4 have higher nitrates than they should.  The 4th tank doesn't and everthing I do to lower the count in the other three never seems to help.  Trying to figure out what the common demoninator in this equation might be I could only come up with the 3 high count tanks housing fancy snails, large apple snails and rams horn to be precise.  Two days ago, I removed all the snails and put them into a separate tank.  I'm going to check the chemistry over the next few days and see if this helps.  Doing a couple of water changes in conjunction with this.  All my tanks are heavily planted so we'll see.  The fish themselves don't seem to be bothered by the count, but it still bugs me so experimentation is on.

            Linda


            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8608 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Digest Number 613 - KEEPING MALE BETTAS TOGETHER
            In a message dated 2/17/05 7:15:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com writes:


             I'd read a story years ago about someone keeping generations of Bettas' together, in the same tank,  

            Years ago, I kept up to six male bettas in the same tank without any problem(s).
            The secret seems to be regulating the temperature.  I put two in a tank separated by a transparent divider.  I slowly lowered the temperature until aggression disappeared - in my case about 70 degrees.  I then removed the divider, and slowly, over a few weeks, added the rest of the males one by one.  It seemed to me that the fight instinct was done away with at lower temperatures.  This makes sense since you wouldn't want bettas to go into a breeding cycle and the males fight of competitors if the water was too cold for the fry to survive.
            The biggest problem I had was maintaining a low temperature in warm/hot weather.


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8609 From: gracefullnature Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Nim (was Re: expanding on betta subject)
            What kind of rock and substrate is that in PICTURE 4/160,

            also the Large yellow snail in the upper right rear, I had a Apple
            Snail Like that until it ate most of my plants


            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
            wrote:
            > That's right Aaron, but you must also agree that a male betta is
            susceptible
            > to attacks by any slightly aggressive fish which can be a
            livebearer. More
            > chances of male livebearers becoming aggressive in a smaller tank
            then in a
            > bigger one. And if once they realize that betta fins are easy
            meal, you
            > probably can never keep a betta with them ever.
            >
            >
            >
            > I have had many such experiences and I would prefer to keep my
            betta with my
            > gold barbs rather then with the guppies and sword tails that I
            had. Infact,
            > my platy is so ferocious that it has been living fine and
            perfectly in a
            > Mbuna tank and sometimes does manage to chase around a couple of
            labs. Very
            > weird, but true.
            >
            > http://www.nimmat.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=lastup
            > <http://www.nimmat.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?
            album=lastup&cat=&pos=2>
            > &cat=&pos=2 a link to show livebearer capabilities :-).
            >
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8610 From: dragon6435@aol.com Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
            Reproduce rapidly is a gross understatement.  You'll go from 3 to 30 to 300 and feel like you're in your own private horror film.  What I remember most about my infestation was the speed and how much they got into the filter and everything else.  I had a friend watch the tank while I was out of town for a couple of days and they said it was actually scary when they came down to check on the tank and saw the rows of snails clustered at the top of the tank.  She said it felt like they were getting ready to attack.  And some did make it outside of the tank too.

            If you want a snail for your kids to enjoy, purchase a mystery or apple snail.  They are very cool, grow large and have great color.  Of course, your plants will suffer but you have to bear that in mind.  My purple apple snail has also gone walkies twice now, both times surviving okay and only suffering one chip from the front of the shell after apparently falling off the tank support to the floor. 
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8611 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
            In a message dated 2/17/2005 9:51:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, dragon6435@... writes:
            Reproduce rapidly is a gross understatement.  You'll go from 3 to 30 to 300 and feel like you're in your own private horror film.  What I remember most about my infestation was the speed and how much they got into the filter and everything else.
            No kidding, eh?! =b And then there's that :::crunchcrunchcrunch::: as they hit the impeller..... =O
             
            If you only have a few snails, grab them now. If they've already made guppies look like amateurs in the reproduction dept., drop a piece of lettuce into your tank overnight, you'll find a ton of them hitchiking on it by morning.
             
            The apple snail idea was a good one. =)
             
            Vicky
             
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8612 From: Amalthea Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
            or, you could just get any number of fish like loaches or most cichlids
            and they'll just eat the snails faster than they can breed :)
            amalthea
            http://www.amaltheasattic.com
            Your Alternative to the Alternative....
            On Feb 17, 2005, at 9:46 PM, dragon6435@... wrote:

            > Reproduce rapidly is a gross understatement.  You'll go from 3 to 30
            > to 300 and feel like you're in your own private horror film.  What I
            > remember most about my infestation was the speed and how much they got
            > into the filter and everything else.  I had a friend watch the tank
            > while I was out of town for a couple of days and they said it was
            > actually scary when they came down to check on the tank and saw the
            > rows of snails clustered at the top of the tank.  She said it felt
            > like they were getting ready to attack.  And some did make it outside
            > of the tank too.
            >
            > If you want a snail for your kids to enjoy, purchase a mystery or
            > apple snail.  They are very cool, grow large and have great color.  Of
            > course, your plants will suffer but you have to bear that in mind.  My
            > purple apple snail has also gone walkies twice now, both times
            > surviving okay and only suffering one chip from the front of the shell
            > after apparently falling off the tank support to the floor. 
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            >  
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            > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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            > Service.
            >
            >
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8613 From: wayne carter Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
            another good way to get rid of snails is to introduce a crayfish to the tank.many people worry that a crayfish may harm thier fish.that most likely won't happen, as fish are normally too quick for them to grab, and crayfish are primarily scavengers anyhow; but they will take a slow moving meal of opportunity such as snails.they are also usefull at moving your substrate around.

            dragon6435@... wrote:
            I'll throw my 25 cents worth in with regards to nuisance snails.  I was so overrun with them in the first tank I set up (after years of not having a tank) I asked at the pet shop what to do and they pointed me to a product that was supposed to rid the tank of snails but not harm the plants or fish.  I used it and within two days all my plants died and I lost several fish.  I now follow what I formerly felt was cruel and crush all the snails I find.  Sometimes my fish will eat the carcass as it floats down, otherwise I suspect my cleaning crew get them. 

            The lesson is to always rise off live plants thoroughly to minimize the introduction of pests into your tank.  I do this religiously now, and still get a few snails now and then.  "Crush".

            While we're on the subject of snails, of the several tanks I'm running, 3 of the 4 have higher nitrates than they should.  The 4th tank doesn't and everthing I do to lower the count in the other three never seems to help.  Trying to figure out what the common demoninator in this equation might be I could only come up with the 3 high count tanks housing fancy snails, large apple snails and rams horn to be precise.  Two days ago, I removed all the snails and put them into a separate tank.  I'm going to check the chemistry over the next few days and see if this helps.  Doing a couple of water changes in conjunction with this.  All my tanks are heavily planted so we'll see.  The fish themselves don't seem to be bothered by the count, but it still bugs me so experimentation is on.

            Linda


            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8614 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
            I have snails (tons) and live plants (which don't have any holes) and
            still have algea... It actually depends on what type of snails they
            are. Someone may have already said that but I haven't finished reading
            all the posts.


            > You can either leave them in or take them out. On the one hand, they
            > will eat any algae you may have. But they will probably also eat
            > your live plants (hence that is why they arrived with them). I keep
            > snails purposely in my tank but I have no live plants. Probably best
            > to get rid of them unless you like plants with holes in them.
            >
            > JW
            >
            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Angela" <angelasjenkins@c...>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > I have snails. My fish store person said they probably came from
            > > the live plants I got last week. She said I could add something to
            > > the water to get rid of them. What should I do? I see about 3
            > tiny
            > > little snails -smaller than the eraser of a pencil. She also said
            > > the fish may eat them - 4 zebra danios, 1 emerald catfish, and 2
            > > frogs. What do you think?
            > >
            > > Thanks again for all your help. I'm just so happy the cycling
            > seems
            > > to be over.
            > >
            > > Angela
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8615 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
                Another report from European scientists (who knows how accurate they are over there on the Continent) says that inverts don't feel pain, so it isn't like it causes any suffering no matter how you treat snails.  I personally still wouldn't mistreat a snail, but I certainly do have no problem with smashing them to little pieces and letting the cories and paradise fish eat on them! :)
             
            Patrick
            -------Original Message-------
            "I'll throw my 25 cents worth in with regards to nuisance snails.  I was so overrun with them in the first tank I set up (after years of not having a tank) I asked at the pet shop what to do and they pointed me to a product that was supposed to rid the tank of snails but not harm the plants or fish.  I used it and within two days all my plants died and I lost several fish.  I now follow what I formerly felt was cruel and crush all the snails I find.  Sometimes my fish will eat the carcass as it floats down, otherwise I suspect my cleaning crew get them." 
            Message shortened to protect the digesters...
            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8616 From: eggybumstu Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Them pesky snails
            Ah the bain of the planted fish tank has struck you Angela but you
            are experiencing a natural problem in this hobby. If you wish your
            plants to stay healthy and not full of holes I suggest that you
            remove every single snail that you see, cos for every one the naked
            eye sees there are probably another 5 lurking. I was running my
            first tank for 4 months and had seen no trace of snails but thought
            I was jinxed when it came to plant growing. It wasn't until I came
            downstairs during the night to get a drink and had a sneaky look at
            the new elephant nose fish I'd bought and witnessed a small snail
            army. I picked 23 out that night and after one week had removed
            over 70 snails of varying sizes. Check your filter, heater decor as
            well as gravel as the little buggers can and will hide anywhere they
            can fit their shell. If you wish to do a dawn raid on the snail
            army you will need to get up before the natural daylight hits the
            tank as the snails will be tuned in to disappear before light
            conditions improve which would mean they could get eaten.

            A natural solution would be to add loaches but the tank size would
            limit the type you could have, for a small tank 1-2 kuhli loaches
            would be ok, medium size would include chain loach, yoyo loach or a
            larger secies would be the clown loach which should be kept in small
            groups. Try here for info on loaches:
            http://www.loaches.com/index.html

            The other species are the puffer family but these aren't recommended
            for a community tank as 1 in 10 are psychotic!!!!!

            When you buy new plants it may be worth soaking them in a commercial
            snail solution for 30 mins before planting, this should eliminate
            the transfer of the stores snails to your tank.

            Hope that helps Stu
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8617 From: paul helms Date: 2/17/2005
            Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
            i fed my pest snails to a small gun metal grey feeder
            named jaws. he grew to 3-4 inches and quite large in
            girth within a few short months. in 6 months he was
            about 6 inches long having eaten 10-12 (or more)
            snails per day. he currently resides in a 2000 gallon
            pond and is god knows how big after having mosquito
            larvae etc to eat.
            --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
            <patrickmn1@...> wrote:

            > Another report from European scientists (who
            > knows how accurate they are
            > over there on the Continent) says that inverts don't
            > feel pain, so it isn't
            > like it causes any suffering no matter how you treat
            > snails. I personally
            > still wouldn't mistreat a snail, but I certainly do
            > have no problem with
            > smashing them to little pieces and letting the
            > cories and paradise fish eat
            > on them! :)
            >
            > Patrick
            > -------Original Message-------
            > "I'll throw my 25 cents worth in with regards to
            > nuisance snails. I was so
            > overrun with them in the first tank I set up (after
            > years of not having a
            > tank) I asked at the pet shop what to do and they
            > pointed me to a product
            > that was supposed to rid the tank of snails but not
            > harm the plants or fish.
            > I used it and within two days all my plants died
            > and I lost several fish.
            > I now follow what I formerly felt was cruel and
            > crush all the snails I find.
            > Sometimes my fish will eat the carcass as it floats
            > down, otherwise I
            > suspect my cleaning crew get them."
            > Message shortened to protect the digesters...




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8618 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/18/2005
            Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
            ""In a message dated 2/17/2005 7:34:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, retrac_enyaw03@... writes:
            another good way to get rid of snails is to introduce a crayfish to the tank.many people worry that a crayfish may harm thier fish.that most likely won't happen, as fish are normally too quick for them to grab, and crayfish are primarily scavengers anyhow; but they will take a slow moving meal of opportunity such as snails.they are also usefull at moving your substrate around.""
            My only fear in using crayfish for snail control is that fish sleep and do this on the bottom of the tank.  Sleeping fish don't really move that much or that fast.  Then along comes Mr. Crayfish for a midnight snack. 
             
            I have never kept crayfish with fish, but I have observed in stores that they will climb up a plant or anything they can climb and wait for a fish to swim too close and grab the fish.
             
            My two cents,
            Mike
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8619 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 2/18/2005
            Subject: Re: Them pesky snails
            You both could also try putting some lettuce under a dish at night and in the morning when you lift the dish there should be tons of the little darlings under it for easy removal.  :-)
            Once you get them in the tank it's very hard to completely get rid of them, it's more like population control.

            Terri Bryant
            www.RainbowSnails.com




            -------- Original Message --------
            Subject: [AquaticLife] RE:  Them pesky snails
            From: "eggybumstu" <eggybumstu@...>
            Date: Fri, February 18, 2005 1:08 am
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com

            Ah the bain of the planted fish tank has struck you Angela but you
            are experiencing a natural problem in this hobby.  If you wish your
            plants to stay healthy and not full of holes I suggest that you
            remove every single snail that you see, cos for every one the naked
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8620 From: brucestay@aol.com Date: 2/18/2005
            Subject: Nim's pics
            Nim,
             
               I took a look at your photo albums and being a planted tank enthusiast just loved the one labeled 15/27. Of course it helps that the black angels are some of my favorite fish.
             
               I also loved the idea of the coffee table tank. You obviously have some carpentry skills also. Did you find that maintenance on this tank was difficult in the long run? I am in need of a new coffee table myself and might have to consider something like this.
             
              Thanks for posting the pictures they are great.
             
            Bruce Stayner
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8621 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 2/18/2005
            Subject: Need advice - sick fish
            All,
             
            Lost a Hap Gracillus yesterday. Had been hanging around at bottom of tank, not eating, fin's slightly clamped, kind of gasping a little, and generally listless.  Had thought it was just agression.  Now I have a Blue Dolphin acting the same way.  Any advice, thoughts, ideas?
             
            Al
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8622 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 2/18/2005
            Subject: Freshwater to Brackish conversion
            I have a 29 that is currently running as a freshwater with misc. mollies, dwarf platies and an ancistrus. I have been using aquarium salt in the tank but, because I *really* like mollies and would like to get monos, would like to convert it over to brackish. This is my first foray into brackish so please jump in!

            What I'm currently planning:

            The ancistrus and platies will be moved over to other tanks.

            I want to switch my substrate to mixed Seachem Grey Coast Calcite and small river gravel. The gravel I currently have in the tank will partially go into a 10 gallon during the switch as well as some water, the driftwood, filters and mollies. (my water is pretty soft here and I also need buffering)

            I am running two filters on the tank now to build up extra colonies since I'm disrupting the tank so much taking out the substrate. I'll also be removing the quartz permanently and replacing it with grey lava stones.

            I hope to keep the Malaysian driftwood currently in the tank -- will move it to the 10 during the switchover. Hopefully, the substrate will counterbalance the affect of the driftwood?

            I've read accounts which describe the bacteria perhaps not being the same in increased salinity -- should I hope my colonies on the filters and driftwood do ok during the switch and gradually increase the salinity to allow them to keep up? I do have a hydrometer and have read Neale's Brackish FAQ as well as Badman's site.

            My hopes are to try either Monos or Orange Chromides. What are your suggestions for a 29 gallon tank? I believe I have about 10 marble, gold dust or silver mollies currently. A currently empty 55 is also an option and I have my eye on a spiffy 42 elongated hex as well to replace the 29.

            Anything I may be missing?
             
            Vicky ~=)
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8623 From: Angela Date: 2/18/2005
            Subject: Loaches for Snail issue
            I went to the fish store this morning. I talked to the girl who's
            been helping me and she said she'd had trouble getting kuhli loaches
            and when she does, their so very tiny. She said she'd get me a
            couple of weather loaches. Will those eat the snails, too? I was
            also going to get an apple snail or something like that, since my
            kids like the snails so much. I figure the loaches will take care
            of the offspring. What is your opinion of this?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8624 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 2/18/2005
            Subject: Re: Loaches for Snail issue

            According to another fish forum kuli's are seasonal and are becoming available right now so you may have luck finding one soon.
             
            Kuli's are safe with apple snails.  If you don't want offspring from applesnails just get one that lays their eggs above the water line, it's very easy to remove the clutches.  Also it takes 2 to have fertile eggs so if you get a young snails you won't ever have a problem.
             
            I don't know anything about weather loaches.

            Terri Bryant
            www.RainbowSnails.com




            -------- Original Message --------
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Loaches for Snail issue
            From: "Angela" <angelasjenkins@...>
            Date: Fri, February 18, 2005 10:56 am
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com

            I went to the fish store this morning.  I talked to the girl who's
            been helping me and she said she'd had trouble getting kuhli loaches
            and when she does, their so very tiny.  She said she'd get me a
            couple of weather loaches.  Will those eat the snails, too?  I was
            also going to get an apple snail or something like that, since my
            kids like the snails so much.  I figure the loaches will take care
            of the offspring.  What is your opinion of this?





            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8625 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/18/2005
            Subject: Re: Loaches for Snail issue

            I doubt weather loaches will eat snails. Moreover they are cold water. Kuhli loach is also not the most efficient snail cleaning machine. You really need to look at the botia species for the purpose. Dwarf chain loach, yoyo loach, striped loach etc. are the ones that help clean up snails. Also be aware about the skunk loach or horas loach, they can be vicious fish slime coat eating machines.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 18 February 2005 16:56
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Loaches for Snail issue

             


            I went to the fish store this morning.  I talked to the girl who's
            been helping me and she said she'd had trouble getting kuhli loaches
            and when she does, their so very tiny.  She said she'd get me a
            couple of weather loaches.  Will those eat the snails, too?  I was
            also going to get an apple snail or something like that, since my
            kids like the snails so much.  I figure the loaches will take care
            of the offspring.  What is your opinion of this?





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8626 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/18/2005
            Subject: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
            Anyone?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8627 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/18/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??

            Sorry? Look like a picture?

            Don’t have any fish, don’t have any filter or pump or airstone. Just have some live plants or you can have some snails.

             

            Or was it something else you wanted to ask? Living picture aquarium?

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Zac Lohrenz [mailto:zacdl@...]
            Sent: 18 February 2005 19:17
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??

             


            Anyone?





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8628 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/18/2005
            Subject: The SF Bay Area Killifish Association Quarterly Meeting, 2/19/2005,
            Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
            The SF Bay Area Killifish Association Quarterly Meeting

            Saturday February 19, 2005
            6:15 pm - 7:15 pm
            This event repeats on the third Saturday of every 3 months.

            Event Location: Round Table Pizza, 20920 Redwood Road in Castro Valley
            Notes:
            The SF Bay Area Killifish Association (BAKA) meets on the third Saturday in Feb, May, Aug and Nov.

            http://www.sfbaka.net/

            Saturday, February 19, 2005 at 6:30 pm


            Where:


            Round Table Pizza
            20920 Redwood Road in Castro Valley
            near both highway 580 and the BART station.



            Who:

            Anyone interested in killies


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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8629 From: paul helms Date: 2/18/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
            yes?
            --- Zac Lohrenz <zacdl@...> wrote:

            >
            > Anyone?
            >
            >
            >
            >





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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8630 From: paul helms Date: 2/18/2005
            Subject: Re: Loaches for Snail issue
            clown loaches do pretty well at snail eating when they
            are real small

            --- Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

            > I doubt weather loaches will eat snails. Moreover
            > they are cold water. Kuhli
            > loach is also not the most efficient snail cleaning
            > machine. You really need
            > to look at the botia species for the purpose. Dwarf
            > chain loach, yoyo loach,
            > striped loach etc. are the ones that help clean up
            > snails. Also be aware
            > about the skunk loach or horas loach, they can be
            > vicious fish slime coat
            > eating machines.
            >
            >
            >
            > Nim
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            > Sent: 18 February 2005 16:56
            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [AquaticLife] Loaches for Snail issue
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > I went to the fish store this morning. I talked to
            > the girl who's
            > been helping me and she said she'd had trouble
            > getting kuhli loaches
            > and when she does, their so very tiny. She said
            > she'd get me a
            > couple of weather loaches. Will those eat the
            > snails, too? I was
            > also going to get an apple snail or something like
            > that, since my
            > kids like the snails so much. I figure the loaches
            > will take care
            > of the offspring. What is your opinion of this?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when
            > replying, thanks
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _____
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            >
            > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
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            > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
            > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of
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            >
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8631 From: Steve Date: 2/18/2005
            Subject: Re: Freshwater to Brackish conversion
            Vicky,

            Don't worry too much about the cycle, it will take care of itself. as the
            bacteria seem to be present everywhere. If the current species cannot handle
            the salinity, another species will come up behind them. I would suspect,
            though, that in a brackish tank the species co-exist with the population
            proportions varying dependent on the actual salinity. With a brackish tank,
            you'll be varying the salinity for best effect anyhow.

            If you goal is to keep monos, you'll want to start in the 55 that you
            mention. Monos are large fish, though they are often sold at a small size,
            they will grow to somewhere in the area of 10 inched, more or less, so they
            will even outgrow the 55 eventually.

            The orange chromides are much smaller fish, growing to 3-4 inches. Again,
            along with your mollies, a good candidate for a 55 gallon tank.

            The mollies themselves will probably only get into the 3-4 inch range also,
            but if you get into other species, rather than the man made varieties, you
            can find mollies that will grow in excess of 6 inches.

            I cannot comment on the Malaysian driftwood and its affect on water
            chemistry, as I have never had it.

            \\Steve//

            -----Original Message-----
            From: seleya8@... [mailto:seleya8@...]
            Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 10:43 AM
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Freshwater to Brackish conversion


            I have a 29 that is currently running as a freshwater with misc. mollies,
            dwarf platies and an ancistrus. I have been using aquarium salt in the tank
            but, because I *really* like mollies and would like to get monos, would like
            to convert it over to brackish. This is my first foray into brackish so
            please jump in!

            What I'm currently planning:

            The ancistrus and platies will be moved over to other tanks.

            I want to switch my substrate to mixed Seachem Grey Coast Calcite and small
            river gravel. The gravel I currently have in the tank will partially go into
            a 10 gallon during the switch as well as some water, the driftwood, filters
            and mollies. (my water is pretty soft here and I also need buffering)

            I am running two filters on the tank now to build up extra colonies since
            I'm disrupting the tank so much taking out the substrate. I'll also be
            removing the quartz permanently and replacing it with grey lava stones.

            I hope to keep the Malaysian driftwood currently in the tank -- will move it
            to the 10 during the switchover. Hopefully, the substrate will
            counterbalance the affect of the driftwood?

            I've read accounts which describe the bacteria perhaps not being the same in
            increased salinity -- should I hope my colonies on the filters and driftwood
            do ok during the switch and gradually increase the salinity to allow them to
            keep up? I do have a hydrometer and have read Neale's Brackish FAQ as well
            as Badman's site.

            My hopes are to try either Monos or Orange Chromides. What are your
            suggestions for a 29 gallon tank? I believe I have about 10 marble, gold
            dust or silver mollies currently. A currently empty 55 is also an option and
            I have my eye on a spiffy 42 elongated hex as well to replace the 29.

            Anything I may be missing?

            Vicky ~=)


            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8632 From: Aaron Date: 2/18/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
            I assume the question was about the current picture on this groups
            home page of the reef tank.

            How many years does it take for the reef tank to mature and look
            like that? What kinds of corals and ananomes etc.... how much would
            it co$t?

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
            wrote:
            > Sorry? Look like a picture?
            >
            > Don't have any fish, don't have any filter or pump or airstone.
            Just have
            > some live plants or you can have some snails.
            >
            >
            >
            > Or was it something else you wanted to ask? Living picture
            aquarium?
            >
            >
            >
            > Nim
            >

            >
            > From: Zac Lohrenz [mailto:zacdl@s...]
            > Sent: 18 February 2005 19:17
            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [AquaticLife] How do I setup my tank to look like the
            picture??
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Anyone?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8633 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/18/2005
            Subject: San Francisco Aquarium Society (SFAS), 3/4/2005, 7:30 pm
            Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
            San Francisco Aquarium Society (SFAS)

            Friday March 4, 2005
            7:30 pm - 9:30 pm
            This event repeats on the first Friday of every month.
            The next reminder for this event will be sent in 9 days, 4 minutes.

            Event Location: first Friday of each month at San Francisco State University
            Notes:
            http://www.sfaquarium.org/index.html

            We meet the first Friday of each month at The San Francisco State University.

            Founded in 1923, the San Francisco Aquarium Society is regarded as one of the nation's esteemed aquarium hobbyist organizations.

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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8634 From: paul helms Date: 2/18/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
            you can have a reef tank looking like that in 6 months
            to a year if you do it slowly, or if you have a lot of
            money, about 2 months
            --- Aaron <massagetherapist@...> wrote:

            >
            > I assume the question was about the current picture
            > on this groups
            > home page of the reef tank.
            >
            > How many years does it take for the reef tank to
            > mature and look
            > like that? What kinds of corals and ananomes etc....
            > how much would
            > it co$t?
            >
            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur"
            > <nimmat4@y...>
            > wrote:
            > > Sorry? Look like a picture?
            > >
            > > Don't have any fish, don't have any filter or pump
            > or airstone.
            > Just have
            > > some live plants or you can have some snails.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Or was it something else you wanted to ask? Living
            > picture
            > aquarium?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Nim
            > >
            >
            > >
            > > From: Zac Lohrenz [mailto:zacdl@s...]
            > > Sent: 18 February 2005 19:17
            > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [AquaticLife] How do I setup my tank to
            > look like the
            > picture??
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Anyone?
            >
            >
            >
            >




            __________________________________
            Do you Yahoo!?
            Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
            http://my.yahoo.com
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8635 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/18/2005
            Subject: Re: San Francisco Aquarium Society  (SFAS), 3/4/2005, 7:30 pm
            This month is the Meg Auction.

            http://www.sfaquarium.org/flyer.pdf
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8636 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/19/2005
            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] San Francisco Aquarium Society  (SFAS), 3/4/2005
            In a message dated 2/18/2005 8:10:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, Deenerz@... writes:
            This month is the Meg Auction.

            http://www.sfaquarium.org/flyer.pdf
            Woops,
            Mega Auction.
             
             
             
            Mike
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8637 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/19/2005
            Subject: Aquabid-Panaque suttoni/suttonorum. N.Cali

            Hey Mike -
            you going to buy the blue Eyes for sale in your area?

            AquaBid.com ends Mon Feb 21 2005 - 11:23:11 PM CST
            Item  # 1109049791
            ~~~from listing~~~

            You are bidding on one Blue-Eyed Pleco: Panaque cochliodon, also known as Panaque suttoni/suttonorum.
            This is the real Blue-Eyed, and it is about 10 years old now. Approximately 9 to 9 1/2 inches from tip of nose to tip of tail.
            need any more pictures, I have tons in a gallery (in some the eyes aren't very bright):
            http://www.plecofanatics.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=2726

            I accept PayPal and Money Orders/Cashier's Checks. (I prefer PayPal) 



            sellers email address: lime_chan100@... with any other questions.









            Deenerz@... writes:


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8638 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/19/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
            The picture on the group home page.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8639 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/19/2005
            Subject: Tank Logbook
            Does anyone know of a good, free software program I could use? I think
            it is a good idea, being that saltwater is more "fragile" than fresh,
            so if something ever went wrong I would be able to look back at what
            all I had done and pinpoint the problem.

            Let me know, thanks.

            Zac
            zacdl@...
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8640 From: sdaccord03 Date: 2/19/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
            You can have a tank like that in about 3 months if you do it right.
            If you get all the live sand and live rock in there first, cycle
            your tank with the die-off from that and wait till the ammonia and
            nitrite go down. Have a deep sand bed (at least 3-4 inches) of good
            reef sand. Don't use a bio-wheel or any form of bio filtration (let
            the live sand and live rock be your bio filtration) but you need
            some form of mechanical filtration. The reason for this is that bio-
            wheels or bio-balls pump out nitrates faster than the live sand/rock
            can de-nitrify them.

            Another option is running activated carbon and/or a protein
            skimmer. A skimmer is a great addition to any tank. if its a
            smaller tank, then weekly 10% water changes should do the trick
            though. Carbon is almost a necessity, but it should not be run all
            the time. A few days every other week is usually good. THe reason
            for this is that carbon removes good elements from the water, not
            just bad ones.

            Add Coral-Vite from Kent weekly to keep the trace elements up.
            Don't put too much or it would be like pouring a fountain soda and
            having too much mixture and not enough carbonated water. If you can
            imagine how that would taste, you can imagine how the fish/inverts
            would feel if you put too much trace elements in your tank.

            That is a very very nice tank. I am not goign to pretend that
            either of my tanks looks as good as that, but these are some starter
            points. Good luck!

            Jimmy

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...>
            wrote:
            > you can have a reef tank looking like that in 6 months
            > to a year if you do it slowly, or if you have a lot of
            > money, about 2 months
            > --- Aaron <massagetherapist@m...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > I assume the question was about the current picture
            > > on this groups
            > > home page of the reef tank.
            > >
            > > How many years does it take for the reef tank to
            > > mature and look
            > > like that? What kinds of corals and ananomes etc....
            > > how much would
            > > it co$t?
            > >
            > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur"
            > > <nimmat4@y...>
            > > wrote:
            > > > Sorry? Look like a picture?
            > > >
            > > > Don't have any fish, don't have any filter or pump
            > > or airstone.
            > > Just have
            > > > some live plants or you can have some snails.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Or was it something else you wanted to ask? Living
            > > picture
            > > aquarium?
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Nim
            > > >
            > >
            > > >
            > > > From: Zac Lohrenz [mailto:zacdl@s...]
            > > > Sent: 18 February 2005 19:17
            > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] How do I setup my tank to
            > > look like the
            > > picture??
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Anyone?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
            > http://my.yahoo.com
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8641 From: sdaccord03 Date: 2/19/2005
            Subject: Re: Tank Logbook
            I just use a notebook. Every time I test my tank, I jot down the
            results along with the date. It keeps me in the know.

            Jimmy

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Zac Lohrenz" <zacdl@s...> wrote:
            >
            > Does anyone know of a good, free software program I could use? I
            think
            > it is a good idea, being that saltwater is more "fragile" than
            fresh,
            > so if something ever went wrong I would be able to look back at
            what
            > all I had done and pinpoint the problem.
            >
            > Let me know, thanks.
            >
            > Zac
            > zacdl@s...
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8642 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/19/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
            Where can I get live rock at? How much?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8643 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/19/2005
            Subject: Re: Tank Logbook

            Zac,

            Wish it were that simple. There are some software in the market like Aquarix who have a trial version. Try them out, but a system is so variable that you cannot really pin point to what went wrong where and when.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Zac Lohrenz [mailto:zacdl@...]
            Sent: 19 February 2005 19:21
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Logbook

             


            Does anyone know of a good, free software program I could use? I think
            it is a good idea, being that saltwater is more "fragile" than fresh,
            so if something ever went wrong I would be able to look back at what
            all I had done and pinpoint the problem.

            Let me know, thanks.

            Zac
            zacdl@...





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8644 From: jammerjr41 Date: 2/19/2005
            Subject: Snails and Ich
            I have a fresh water 10 gallon tank. I have just a snail right now
            as I am letting the tank "rest" since I think I had an infestation
            of Ich and all my fish died. I've thoughly washed out the tank,
            rocks etc. and refilled with new water which was treated for
            chlorine. I re-introduced my snail and now I'm wondering if my snail
            has ich too...Do snails get ich? If they do, can the water be
            treated?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8645 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/19/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??

            Rite. I think you need to start from scratch and do a lot of reading as to what a Reef tank is and what Live rock/sand does in the tank before plunging into marine aquariums. They are not as simple as it sounds but I suggest you to get some experience in freshwater first. Understand the ecology and then think about moving to reef.

             

            Live rock otherwise is very expensive. Here in the UK it cost from anywhere between £8 per kilogram to £20 per kilogram depending on quality. A typical 55 gallon reef will need about 40 kg of live rock as minimum (£800 ~ $1200). Do the research rather then jumping on to conclusion by looking at a picture. You will also need a lot of light and electricity bills may double if not triple.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Zac Lohrenz [mailto:zacdl@...]
            Sent: 19 February 2005 21:42
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??

             


            Where can I get live rock at? How much?





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8646 From: freedombell2002 Date: 2/19/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Zac Lohrenz" <zacdl@s...> wrote:
            >
            > Where can I get live rock at? How much?

            I also have a reef tanks 30 gallons. As far as taking care of it. Its
            been fairly easy, now the cost thats another story

            If you go to photos and go to sherrie's ( 3rd page of photos) you
            can see my reef, that is about 25 to 28 lbs of Live rock. That live
            rock cost 8 to 10 dallors a pound. ( u can do the math 'hehe' ) I
            have 10 pounds of Live sand. In the photos my reef is around 3 to 4
            months old. I also added star polyps, and a hawk fish. For the
            longest time could only keep alive the rocks a few crabs and snails
            and the cromus? fish. They are ones in photo and they are still alive
            and the hawk fish is about 7 months old, the tank is now 15 months
            old. Live rock is fun many hitch hikers come on the rocks. I got a
            serpent star fish, a purple urcin that was the size of a small marble
            and now its omost the size of a Q-ball. The caulerpa you see (the
            green plant) was a hitch hiker on my polyps. When I got it was only
            about 12 leaves now its all over and I have to pull out hands
            HANDSful every week or you can't see into tank. about a month ago a
            red plant started growing out of the liverock still can't Id it. But
            it also very pretty, but doesn't grow as fast as the green one has.
            As far as the tank its self its not much different then my 40 fresh,
            the lights and powerhead and of corse the water.

            okay if you have anymore question I will TRY and answer them.
            Sherrie
            (hey maybe you could think of doing a nano reef)
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8647 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/19/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
            Are you saying a person should do a little research before plunging into aquariums Nim?
            I have seen a lot of people jump in before looking or researching. They buy the best equipemnt out there spending tons of $$$ just to have there systems crash -killing everything in there tanks. If I read your post correctly you are advising him to learn by others mistakes rather then Trial and error.. I wish more people would take your advise..

            A lot of saltwater fish are NON reef compatible meaning if you want a reef tank go with a reef tank if you want a saltwater fish tank go with a fish tank..

            rob
            Indiana
            USa

            In a message dated 2/19/2005 5:27:32 PM US Eastern Standard Time, nimmat4@... writes:


            Rite. I think you need to start from scratch and do a lot of reading as to what a Reef tank is and what Live rock/sand does in the tank before plunging into marine aquariums. They are not as simple as it sounds but I suggest you to get some experience in freshwater first. Understand the ecology and then think about moving to reef.




            Live rock otherwise is very expensive. Here in the UK it cost from anywhere between £8 per kilogram to £20 per kilogram depending on quality. A typical 55 gallon reef will need about 40 kg of live rock as minimum (£800 ~ $1200). Do the research rather then jumping on to conclusion by looking at a picture. You will also need a lot of light and electricity bills may double if not triple.



            Nim







            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8648 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 2/19/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
            That's excellent advice for any kind of aquarium. I am a perfect
            example of just thinking you can buy an aquarium kit and some fish
            and be fine. It took us two mass die offs before i finally admitted
            I'd been an idiot, and started researching. Now with a little
            experience under my belt, we have two nice stabile tanks that are
            remarkably easy to care for, but I sure wish I'd come here BEFORE
            wasting our time and money and killing off a bunch of innocent fish.


            > Are you saying a person should do a little research before plunging
            into
            > aquariums Nim?
            > I have seen a lot of people jump in before looking or researching.
            They buy
            > the best equipemnt out there spending tons of $$$ just to have
            there systems
            > crash -killing everything in there tanks. If I read your post
            correctly you are
            > advising him to learn by others mistakes rather then Trial and
            error.. I wish
            > more people would take your advise..
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8649 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/19/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??

            Exactly J.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: FortWayneFish@... [mailto:FortWayneFish@...]
            Sent: 19 February 2005 22:38
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??

             

            Are you saying a person should do a little research before plunging into aquariums Nim?
            I have seen a lot of people jump in before looking or researching. They buy the best equipemnt out there spending tons of $$$ just to have there systems crash -killing everything in there tanks. If I read your post correctly you are advising him to learn by others mistakes rather then Trial and error.. I wish more people would take your advise..

            A lot of saltwater fish are NON reef compatible meaning if you want a reef tank go with a reef tank if you want a saltwater fish tank go with a fish tank..

            rob
            Indiana
            USa

            In a message dated 2/19/2005 5:27:32 PM US Eastern Standard Time, nimmat4@... writes:



            Rite. I think you need to start from scratch and do a lot of reading as to what a Reef tank is and what Live rock/sand does in the tank before plunging into marine aquariums. They are not as simple as it sounds but I suggest you to get some experience in freshwater first. Understand the ecology and then think about moving to reef.



            Live rock otherwise is very expensive. Here in the UK it cost from anywhere between £8 per kilogram to £20 per kilogram depending on quality. A typical 55 gallon reef will need about 40 kg of live rock as minimum (£800 ~ $1200). Do the research rather then jumping on to conclusion by looking at a picture. You will also need a lot of light and electricity bills may double if not triple.



            Nim








            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8650 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/19/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
            Sherri, its people like you that I learn from :D
            I like seeing, and hearing people's stories. For some reason I dont
            learn as much through books.
            What is the differance between a saltwater fish tank, and a reef tank?
            This guy I may buy from has some coral he may send me too (So I guess
            a fish tank then????) He said he would send me a book on saltwater
            fish too.
            He said it has 2 filters, one that hangs on the side, and one under
            gravel (well, oyster shells). He said I really wont need sand because
            it clogs the under gravel one up (and I think I like the oyster shell
            too).
            He is sending me the pump, lights, hood, test kits, basically
            everything but a base (Have a fireplace to put it on).
            So, I really dont want to spend $800 on rock, so I guess I will just
            use the coral stuff he has and call it good.
            I subscribed to a daily email thing from about.com, it looks like it
            teaches you how to setup and maintain a aquarium.

            So does anyone have any other suggestions? I dont want to mess this up.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8651 From: paul helms Date: 2/19/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
            sounds like a nice nano reef you have there sherrie!
            the red is also a macro algae, very hardy but very
            slow growing. what kind of skimmer are you using?
            --- freedombell2002 <Kpribble@...> wrote:

            >
            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Zac Lohrenz"
            > <zacdl@s...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Where can I get live rock at? How much?
            >
            > I also have a reef tanks 30 gallons. As far as
            > taking care of it. Its
            > been fairly easy, now the cost thats another story
            >
            > If you go to photos and go to sherrie's ( 3rd page
            > of photos) you
            > can see my reef, that is about 25 to 28 lbs of Live
            > rock. That live
            > rock cost 8 to 10 dallors a pound. ( u can do the
            > math 'hehe' ) I
            > have 10 pounds of Live sand. In the photos my reef
            > is around 3 to 4
            > months old. I also added star polyps, and a hawk
            > fish. For the
            > longest time could only keep alive the rocks a few
            > crabs and snails
            > and the cromus? fish. They are ones in photo and
            > they are still alive
            > and the hawk fish is about 7 months old, the tank is
            > now 15 months
            > old. Live rock is fun many hitch hikers come on the
            > rocks. I got a
            > serpent star fish, a purple urcin that was the size
            > of a small marble
            > and now its omost the size of a Q-ball. The
            > caulerpa you see (the
            > green plant) was a hitch hiker on my polyps. When I
            > got it was only
            > about 12 leaves now its all over and I have to pull
            > out hands
            > HANDSful every week or you can't see into tank.
            > about a month ago a
            > red plant started growing out of the liverock still
            > can't Id it. But
            > it also very pretty, but doesn't grow as fast as the
            > green one has.
            > As far as the tank its self its not much different
            > then my 40 fresh,
            > the lights and powerhead and of corse the water.
            >
            > okay if you have anymore question I will TRY and
            > answer them.
            > Sherrie
            > (hey maybe you could think of doing a nano reef)
            >
            >
            >
            >




            __________________________________
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            Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
            http://my.yahoo.com
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8652 From: paul helms Date: 2/19/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
            live rock runs from 5.49/lb to 11/lb depending on what
            island it is from, and how much coraline has grown on
            it. the diff between a fish only tank and a reef tank
            is that you will not have mushrooms, anemones, corals,
            or polyps in a fish only tank, resulting in a tank
            requiring about 25% of the light. the afore mentioned
            animals need 3-5 watts per gallon of light, where fish
            do not need any specific amount of light. make sure
            you get a good protein skimmer as well. the protein
            skimmer removes unbroken down waste before it can
            breakdown and leave ammonia behind. it functions like
            the waves on the beach. the green foam on the beach
            is what you will be removing from your tank. having a
            sump to grow macro algae is benneficial as well, as it
            consumes nitrates much faster than fresh water plants.
            it does better in the sump because it is so efficient
            at nitrate consumption that you will not be able to
            see in your tank within a month or so.
            paul
            --- Zac Lohrenz <zacdl@...> wrote:

            >
            > Where can I get live rock at? How much?
            >
            >
            >
            >




            __________________________________
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            Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8653 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/19/2005
            Subject: Re: Aquabid-Panaque suttoni/suttonorum. N.Cali
            In a message dated 2/19/2005 4:06:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, FortWayneFish@... writes:
            Hey Mike -
            you going to buy the blue Eyes for sale in your area?
            oh man,
             
            I would love to have it, but I have not been doing well with anything other than common plecos.  I was doing well for about a year with the bushy nosed and then I couldn't even find the bodies.
            They had lived in the same tank with the same group of Nyerie cichlids and then I lost sight of them and tore apart the tank and I think I found part of a skull.
            Maybe if I had the room for a species ONLY tank.  Until then I will leave them for more experienced keepers.
             
            Mike  
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8654 From: pickles Date: 2/19/2005
            Subject: AquaBid.com
            Blank
             
            I just found this site today....got it from another list.. I was trying to find a place to sell my ceramic aquarium decorations that I make and some one suggested this web site..its like an ebay for fish lovers! I thought it was kinda neat ...they have people selling everything there is for a fish tank..Fish included....I have no investment in the site ..other than posting my ceramics there...just thought the rest of you might like it too....Thanks....Mary in Oregon

             

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8655 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/20/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??

            You will need Live rock even in a fish only tank. There is really no way out of it. Plus you will need a RO (Reverse osmosis) Unit to be able to make your reef water if you are going for a reef. Corals etc. are part of the reef tank. A fish only tank does not have them or maybe it can have some types of corals. I am not a reefer really so not sure about some facts, I think an under gravel filer and a canister filter are useless in salt water tanks and they are nitrate making machines. What you need is live rock and a protein skimmer.

             

            Also, a tank sitting on top of a fireplace may not be a good idea. Atleast not a salt water tank as it is very sensitive to environmental changes.

            Like I said, do the reading first and then jump into it. It’s a lot of money to waste and if you don’t setup properly, you can kill all your live rock, all the corals and all the fish. Marine organisms are 10 times more expensive then freshwater.

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Zac Lohrenz [mailto:zacdl@...]
            Sent: 20 February 2005 00:44
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??

             


            Sherri, its people like you that I learn from :D
            I like seeing, and hearing people's stories. For some reason I dont
            learn as much through books.
            What is the differance between a saltwater fish tank, and a reef tank?
            This guy I may buy from has some coral he may send me too (So I guess
            a fish tank then????) He said he would send me a book on saltwater
            fish too.
            He said it has 2 filters, one that hangs on the side, and one under
            gravel (well, oyster shells). He said I really wont need sand because
            it clogs the under gravel one up (and I think I like the oyster shell
            too).
            He is sending me the pump, lights, hood, test kits, basically
            everything but a base (Have a fireplace to put it on).
            So, I really dont want to spend $800 on rock, so I guess I will just
            use the coral stuff he has and call it good.
            I subscribed to a daily email thing from about.com, it looks like it
            teaches you how to setup and maintain a aquarium.

            So does anyone have any other suggestions? I dont want to mess this up.





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8656 From: Amalthea Date: 2/20/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
            also, most fireplaces are built with some kind of concrete and the
            reaction between salt and concrete under pressure of weight can be at
            least corrosive and sometimes explosive.
            amalthea
            http://www.puppetterrors.com
            Don't be Afraid to Scream....
            On Feb 20, 2005, at 4:44 AM, Nimish Mathur wrote:

            > You will need Live rock even in a fish only tank. There is really no
            > way out of it. Plus you will need a RO (Reverse osmosis) Unit to be
            > able to make your reef water if you are going for a reef. Corals etc.
            > are part of the reef tank. A fish only tank does not have them or
            > maybe it can have some types of corals. I am not a reefer really so
            > not sure about some facts, I think an under gravel filer and a
            > canister filter are useless in salt water tanks and they are nitrate
            > making machines. What you need is live rock and a protein skimmer.
            >
            >  
            >
            > Also, a tank sitting on top of a fireplace may not be a good idea.
            > Atleast not a salt water tank as it is very sensitive to environmental
            > changes.
            >
            > Like I said, do the reading first and then jump into it. It’s a lot of
            > money to waste and if you don’t setup properly, you can kill all your
            > live rock, all the corals and all the fish. Marine organisms are 10
            > times more expensive then freshwater.
            >
            >  
            >
            > Nim
            >
            >  
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            > From: Zac Lohrenz [mailto:zacdl@...]
            > Sent: 20 February 2005 00:44
            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the
            > picture??
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            > Sherri, its people like you that I learn from :D
            > I like seeing, and hearing people's stories. For some reason I dont
            > learn as much through books.
            > What is the differance between a saltwater fish tank, and a reef tank?
            > This guy I may buy from has some coral he may send me too (So I guess
            > a fish tank then????) He said he would send me a book on saltwater
            > fish too.
            > He said it has 2 filters, one that hangs on the side, and one under
            > gravel (well, oyster shells). He said I really wont need sand because
            > it clogs the under gravel one up (and I think I like the oyster shell
            > too).
            > He is sending me the pump, lights, hood, test kits, basically
            > everything but a base (Have a fireplace to put it on).
            > So, I really dont want to spend $800 on rock, so I guess I will just
            > use the coral stuff he has and call it good.
            > I subscribed to a daily email thing from about.com, it looks like it
            > teaches you how to setup and maintain a aquarium.
            >
            > So does anyone have any other suggestions? I dont want to mess this up.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >
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            >
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            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            >  
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            > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8657 From: paul helms Date: 2/20/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
            undergravel filters are not salt water filtration
            devices. salt water aquariums do not really run on
            the same principles of bacterial or bio filtration.
            it is all of the microorganism that live in the sand
            and rock that consume extra wastes. a lot of critters
            that eat detritus (crap).
            --- Amalthea <amalthea23@...> wrote:

            > also, most fireplaces are built with some kind of
            > concrete and the
            > reaction between salt and concrete under pressure of
            > weight can be at
            > least corrosive and sometimes explosive.
            > amalthea
            > http://www.puppetterrors.com
            > Don't be Afraid to Scream....
            > On Feb 20, 2005, at 4:44 AM, Nimish Mathur wrote:
            >
            > > You will need Live rock even in a fish only tank.
            > There is really no
            > > way out of it. Plus you will need a RO (Reverse
            > osmosis) Unit to be
            > > able to make your reef water if you are going for
            > a reef. Corals etc.
            > > are part of the reef tank. A fish only tank does
            > not have them or
            > > maybe it can have some types of corals. I am not a
            > reefer really so
            > > not sure about some facts, I think an under gravel
            > filer and a
            > > canister filter are useless in salt water tanks
            > and they are nitrate
            > > making machines. What you need is live rock and a
            > protein skimmer.
            > >
            > > �
            > >
            > > Also, a tank sitting on top of a fireplace may not
            > be a good idea.
            > > Atleast not a salt water tank as it is very
            > sensitive to environmental
            > > changes.
            > >
            > > Like I said, do the reading first and then jump
            > into it. It�s a lot of
            > > money to waste and if you don�t setup properly,
            > you can kill all your
            > > live rock, all the corals and all the fish. Marine
            > organisms are 10
            > > times more expensive then freshwater.
            > >
            > > �
            > >
            > > Nim
            > >
            > > �
            > >
            > > �
            > >
            > >
            > > From: Zac Lohrenz [mailto:zacdl@...]
            > > Sent: 20 February 2005 00:44
            > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I setup my tank
            > to look like the
            > > picture??
            > >
            > > �
            > >
            > >
            > > Sherri, its people like you that I learn from :D
            > > I like seeing, and hearing people's stories. For
            > some reason I dont
            > > learn as much through books.
            > > What is the differance between a saltwater fish
            > tank, and a reef tank?
            > > This guy I may buy from has some coral he may send
            > me too (So I guess
            > > a fish tank then????) He said he would send me a
            > book on saltwater
            > > fish too.
            > > He said it has 2 filters, one that hangs on the
            > side, and one under
            > > gravel (well, oyster shells). He said I really
            > wont need sand because
            > > it clogs the under gravel one up (and I think I
            > like the oyster shell
            > > too).
            > > He is sending me the pump, lights, hood, test
            > kits, basically
            > > everything but a base (Have a fireplace to put it
            > on).
            > > So, I really dont want to spend $800 on rock, so I
            > guess I will just
            > > use the coral stuff he has and call it good.
            > > I subscribed to a daily email thing from
            > about.com, it looks like it
            > > teaches you how to setup and maintain a aquarium.
            > >
            > > So does anyone have any other suggestions? I dont
            > want to mess this up.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > please delete this line and everything below it
            > when replying, thanks
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > please delete this line and everything below it
            > when replying, thanks
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > >
            > > <logo_25x25.gif>
            > >
            > > Get unlimited calls to
            > >
            > > U.S./Canada
            > > <image.tiff>
            > >
            > > <l.gif>
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            > > �
            > > � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
            > to:
            > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > > �
            > > � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
            > Yahoo! Terms of
            > > Service.
            > >
            > >
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8658 From: paul helms Date: 2/20/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
            live rock is not absolutely necessary, as fish only
            tanks are usually full of fish that will destroy the
            live rock, such as puffers and triggers. both will
            rip apart the rock to get at the copepods, worms, etc
            and will chew the calciferous algaes right off the
            rock. in a fish only tank, absolutely use it.
            protein skimmer is a must if there are any fish. if
            it is invet only, it is not necessary as you are not
            adding ammonia, but still a good idea.
            --- Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

            > You will need Live rock even in a fish only tank.
            > There is really no way out
            > of it. Plus you will need a RO (Reverse osmosis)
            > Unit to be able to make
            > your reef water if you are going for a reef. Corals
            > etc. are part of the
            > reef tank. A fish only tank does not have them or
            > maybe it can have some
            > types of corals. I am not a reefer really so not
            > sure about some facts, I
            > think an under gravel filer and a canister filter
            > are useless in salt water
            > tanks and they are nitrate making machines. What you
            > need is live rock and a
            > protein skimmer.
            >
            >
            >
            > Also, a tank sitting on top of a fireplace may not
            > be a good idea. Atleast
            > not a salt water tank as it is very sensitive to
            > environmental changes.
            >
            > Like I said, do the reading first and then jump into
            > it. It's a lot of money
            > to waste and if you don't setup properly, you can
            > kill all your live rock,
            > all the corals and all the fish. Marine organisms
            > are 10 times more
            > expensive then freshwater.
            >
            >
            >
            > Nim
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: Zac Lohrenz [mailto:zacdl@...]
            > Sent: 20 February 2005 00:44
            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I setup my tank to
            > look like the picture??
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Sherri, its people like you that I learn from :D
            > I like seeing, and hearing people's stories. For
            > some reason I dont
            > learn as much through books.
            > What is the differance between a saltwater fish
            > tank, and a reef tank?
            > This guy I may buy from has some coral he may send
            > me too (So I guess
            > a fish tank then????) He said he would send me a
            > book on saltwater
            > fish too.
            > He said it has 2 filters, one that hangs on the
            > side, and one under
            > gravel (well, oyster shells). He said I really wont
            > need sand because
            > it clogs the under gravel one up (and I think I like
            > the oyster shell
            > too).
            > He is sending me the pump, lights, hood, test kits,
            > basically
            > everything but a base (Have a fireplace to put it
            > on).
            > So, I really dont want to spend $800 on rock, so I
            > guess I will just
            > use the coral stuff he has and call it good.
            > I subscribed to a daily email thing from about.com,
            > it looks like it
            > teaches you how to setup and maintain a aquarium.
            >
            > So does anyone have any other suggestions? I dont
            > want to mess this up.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when
            > replying, thanks
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8659 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 2/20/2005
            Subject: Re: Snails and Ich
            Snails can't get ich.

            Terri Bryant
            www.RainbowSnails.com




            -------- Original Message --------
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails and Ich
            From: "jammerjr41" <jammerjr41@...>
            Date: Sat, February 19, 2005 4:11 pm
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com

            I have a fresh water 10 gallon tank. I have just a snail right now
            as I am letting the tank "rest" since I think I had an infestation
            of Ich and all my fish died. I've thoughly washed out the tank,
            rocks etc. and refilled with new water which was treated for
            chlorine. I re-introduced my snail and now I'm wondering if my snail
            has ich too...Do snails get ich?  If they do, can the water be
            treated?





            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8660 From: dreammaker2623 Date: 2/20/2005
            Subject: Re: Another Question - I do have so many!
            Crawfish (except for certain species like dwarf crawfish) Will eat
            plants also. One way to control their growth is to not give them
            food and to do this is to do good tank maintaince, not overfeeding,
            regular water changes and the right amount and type of lighting for
            plants (if you have plants). Certain types of snail (trumpet snails)
            are good because they act like "earthworms in the aquarium" and will
            go through the gravel and eat uneaten food breaking it down for the
            plants to use instead of later for algae to use. Also by crawling
            through the gravel they help keep the gravel from becoming anarobic.
            My dwarf crawfish do not harm even the snails (that I control by
            crushing)or even the plants. I do not know if they would attact fish
            eggs . I do know that dwarf cichlids can protect their eggs against
            dwarf crawfish.






            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, wayne carter
            <retrac_enyaw03@y...> wrote:
            > another good way to get rid of snails is to introduce a crayfish
            to the tank.many people worry that a crayfish may harm thier
            fish.that most likely won't happen, as fish are normally too quick
            for them to grab, and crayfish are primarily scavengers anyhow; but
            they will take a slow moving meal of opportunity such as snails.they
            are also usefull at moving your substrate around.
            >
            > dragon6435@a... wrote:I'll throw my 25 cents worth in with regards
            to nuisance snails. I was so overrun with them in the first tank I
            set up (after years of not having a tank) I asked at the pet shop
            what to do and they pointed me to a product that was supposed to rid
            the tank of snails but not harm the plants or fish. I used it and
            within two days all my plants died and I lost several fish. I now
            follow what I formerly felt was cruel and crush all the snails I
            find. Sometimes my fish will eat the carcass as it floats down,
            otherwise I suspect my cleaning crew get them.
            >
            > The lesson is to always rise off live plants thoroughly to
            minimize the introduction of pests into your tank. I do this
            religiously now, and still get a few snails now and then. "Crush".
            >
            > While we're on the subject of snails, of the several tanks I'm
            running, 3 of the 4 have higher nitrates than they should. The 4th
            tank doesn't and everthing I do to lower the count in the other
            three never seems to help. Trying to figure out what the common
            demoninator in this equation might be I could only come up with the
            3 high count tanks housing fancy snails, large apple snails and rams
            horn to be precise. Two days ago, I removed all the snails and put
            them into a separate tank. I'm going to check the chemistry over
            the next few days and see if this helps. Doing a couple of water
            changes in conjunction with this. All my tanks are heavily planted
            so we'll see. The fish themselves don't seem to be bothered by the
            count, but it still bugs me so experimentation is on.
            >
            > Linda
            >
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8661 From: jammerjr41 Date: 2/20/2005
            Subject: Re: Snails and Ich
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, terri@r... wrote:
            >

            My snail has a white fuzz on it's shell. Do they get another type of
            fungus/parisite? Also, my snail is not moving very much lately.
            Fish are easy to spot when they are dead, do snails float when their
            dead or do they just never come back out of their shell? The snail
            only came out of its shell partially yesterday, but I know it was
            still alive because I have to move it to move some plants and it
            tucked itself back into its shell.

            *Funny how alot of the emails I've been reading are about how to
            kill off the snails and I'm trying to keep mine alive.

            Thanks for your earlier response.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8662 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/20/2005
            Subject: Re: AquaBid.com
            I love this site. I also love reptibid.com if your looking for
            reptiles or amphibians.


            > I just found this site today....got it from another list.. I was
            trying to find a place to sell my ceramic aquarium decorations that
            I make and some one suggested this web site..its like an ebay for
            fish lovers! I thought it was kinda neat ...they have people selling
            everything there is for a fish tank..Fish included....I have no
            investment in the site ..other than posting my ceramics there...just
            thought the rest of you might like it too....Thanks....Mary in Oregon
            > go to http://www.aquabid.com/
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8663 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/20/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
            I was thinking of having clownfish, anenomaes, shrimp, and a few other
            things as well. I was thinking of having the dead coral the guy has as
            the centerpeice, and decorate it just a little bit after that. I am
            not planning on anything rare, so do I really need live rock?

            I think he said the undergravel filter is mainly just for the bio filter.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8664 From: Aaron Date: 2/20/2005
            Subject: I need some advice!
            forwarded message
            --------
            From: "Fate Turnner" <kecl07@...>
            Date: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:10pm
            Subject: I need some advice!

            Hi, I have had freshwater fish for about 3 years and have had good
            success. My tank levels have been stable and the fish healthy( and
            no casualties) for almost a year. I have allways used plastic
            plants, but I want to get into real ones. Everything I have read
            said to put them in before adding fish. Will it hurt my fish to add
            them in afterward? Also I just have regular gravel, could I even get
            a plant to survive. And if I can, can you please give me any
            information on the care that I would need for my plants and any
            advice would be great. I look forward to your responce
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8665 From: Angela Date: 2/20/2005
            Subject: Are my fish sick?
            I have four zebra danios. Two of them seem to have bloated
            bellies. My kids think we're going to have babies, but I'm worried
            something else is the matter. I only feed once every other day and
            they're acting fine. Could something be wrong? They move so fast,
            I really can't get a good look at them.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8666 From: paul helms Date: 2/20/2005
            Subject: Re: Are my fish sick?
            they could eb pregnant
            lol

            --- Angela <angelasjenkins@...> wrote:

            >
            > I have four zebra danios. Two of them seem to have
            > bloated
            > bellies. My kids think we're going to have babies,
            > but I'm worried
            > something else is the matter. I only feed once
            > every other day and
            > they're acting fine. Could something be wrong?
            > They move so fast,
            > I really can't get a good look at them.
            >
            >
            >
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8667 From: paul helms Date: 2/20/2005
            Subject: Re: I need some advice!
            yes yo can add plants, but check the light requirement
            on any you plan on buying. amazon sword, anacharis,
            and bannana plants, as well as java fern do fine in
            low light situations, and do fine in gravel. any
            others you may need to add lights. make sure there is
            no brown leaves or any decay before adding them, and
            check for snail egg sacks as well.
            paul
            --- Aaron <massagetherapist@...> wrote:

            >
            > forwarded message
            > --------
            > From: "Fate Turnner" <kecl07@...>
            > Date: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:10pm
            > Subject: I need some advice!
            >
            > Hi, I have had freshwater fish for about 3 years and
            > have had good
            > success. My tank levels have been stable and the
            > fish healthy( and
            > no casualties) for almost a year. I have allways
            > used plastic
            > plants, but I want to get into real ones. Everything
            > I have read
            > said to put them in before adding fish. Will it hurt
            > my fish to add
            > them in afterward? Also I just have regular gravel,
            > could I even get
            > a plant to survive. And if I can, can you please
            > give me any
            > information on the care that I would need for my
            > plants and any
            > advice would be great. I look forward to your
            > responce
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >




            __________________________________
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8668 From: paul helms Date: 2/20/2005
            Subject: Re: How do I setup my tank to look like the picture??
            ye syou do. if you are going to have anemones, and
            fish you will need live rock and a protein skimmer as
            well as enough lights to put out at 3 watts per
            gallon. anemones are photosynthetic....or rather have
            photosynthetic algae in its tissue that need a lot of
            light. the rock and skimmer will keep nitrates low
            enough to keep them alive. the dead coral will
            eventually grow over with algae, whether green or
            coraline. in any case it will not stay white. most
            dead corals have been bleached also, and require
            soaking in water outside the tank for several weeks to
            ensure the bleach is removed.
            --- Zac Lohrenz <zacdl@...> wrote:

            >
            > I was thinking of having clownfish, anenomaes,
            > shrimp, and a few other
            > things as well. I was thinking of having the dead
            > coral the guy has as
            > the centerpeice, and decorate it just a little bit
            > after that. I am
            > not planning on anything rare, so do I really need
            > live rock?
            >
            > I think he said the undergravel filter is mainly
            > just for the bio filter.
            >
            >
            >
            >




            __________________________________
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8669 From: Angela Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Water Test Results
            Now that my tank has cycled (I hope) I've tested all the parameters
            I can think of. First question, are they satisfactory for four
            zebra danios, an emerald cory catfish, and two frogs (as well as
            several uninvited snails)? If I need to change anything, how (water
            changes, added chemicals - don't really want to mess with this, but
            I will if I have to), etc.? Also, I'd like to add more fish. Is
            this advisable at this point.

            Again, as always, I appreciate your advice. My hope is that I'll
            stick with this very rewarding hobby and be able to help someone
            else one day!

            Parameters:
            Ammonia 0 ppm
            Nitrite 0 ppm
            Nitrate 5 ppm
            ph 7.6+ the color is a bluer blue than the chart
            Gh 107.4 ppm or 6 degrees
            Kh 53.7 ppm or 3 degrees
            Temperature 73 degrees

            Thanks,
            Angela
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8670 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: Water Test Results

            Hi Angela,

             

            It seems fine to add some more fish to the setup but start with adding the 4 zebra danios first. Corydoras like to be in groups of 3 or more so reconsider that option.

             

            Test looks good and a Nitrate of 5 looks even better except for the fact that it is too low. Are you now feeding the fish well?

            Also, KH seems to be a bit low for a PH of 7.6 and could cause slight concern at later stages. Keep monitoring after adding the fish and hope for the best. If you get any ammonia or nitrite after adding the fish, do not panic as it could only be a mini cycle and will settle in about a week if no water changes are done. Longer if water changes are done J

             

            Good luck.,

            Nim

             

             


            From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 21 February 2005 13:05
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Results

             


            Now that my tank has cycled (I hope) I've tested all the parameters
            I can think of.  First question, are they satisfactory for four
            zebra danios, an emerald cory catfish, and two frogs (as well as
            several uninvited snails)?  If I need to change anything, how (water
            changes, added chemicals - don't really want to mess with this, but
            I will if I have to), etc.?  Also, I'd like to add more fish.  Is
            this advisable at this point.

            Again, as always, I appreciate your advice.  My hope is that I'll
            stick with this very rewarding hobby and be able to help someone
            else one day!

            Parameters:
            Ammonia 0 ppm
            Nitrite 0 ppm
            Nitrate 5 ppm
            ph  7.6+ the color is a bluer blue than the chart
            Gh  107.4 ppm or 6 degrees
            Kh   53.7 ppm or 3 degrees
            Temperature  73 degrees

            Thanks,
            Angela





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8671 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: Water Test Results
            Are you suggesting adding 4 more zebra danios and 2 more cory catfish?  I already have 4 zebra danios and 1 cory catfish.  The tank is 20 gallons.  I just wanted to make sure.
             
            Regarding the ph, I've used ph down and it still seems to stay up.  I add water about once every week or so to replace what evaporates and I've tested pretty frequently in recent weeks to keep a check on the nitrites which were quite high.
             
            -------------- Original message --------------

            Hi Angela,

             

            It seems fine to add some more fish to the setup but start with adding the 4 zebra danios first. Corydoras like to be in groups of 3 or more so reconsider that option.

             

            Test looks good and a Nitrate of 5 looks even better except for the fact that it is too low. Are you now feeding the fish well?

            Also, KH seems to be a bit low for a PH of 7.6 and could cause slight concern at later stages. Keep monitoring after adding the fish and hope for the best. If you get any ammonia or nitrite after adding the fish, do not panic as it could only be a mini cycle and will settle in about a week if no water changes are done. Longer if water changes are done J

             

            Good luck.,

            Nim

             

             


            From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 21 February 2005 13:05
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Results

             


            Now that my tank has cycled (I hope) I've tested all the parameters
            I can think of.  First question, are they satisfactory for four
            zebra danios, an emerald cory catfish, and two frogs (as well as
            several uninvited snails)?  If I need to change anything, how (water
            changes, added chemicals - don't really want to mess with this, but
            I will if I have to), etc.?  Also, I'd like to add more fish.  Is
            this advisable at this point.

            Again, as always, I appreciate your advice.  My hope is that I'll
            stick with this very rewarding hobby and be able to help someone
            else one day!

            Parameters:
            Ammonia 0 ppm
            Nitrite 0 ppm
            Nitrate 5 ppm
            ph  7.6+ the color is a bluer blue than the chart
            Gh  107.4 ppm or 6 degrees
            Kh   53.7 ppm or 3 degrees
            Temperature  73 degrees

            Thanks,
            Angela





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks






            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8672 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: Water Test Results

            Sorry, I thought you wanted to add more of these. Test results are good enough for the existing fish and you could think about start adding a few more. Groups of no more then 4 fish in a go. Avoid sensitive fish like many tetras (Cardinals, neons, rummy nosed etc.) for the moment but you can defiantly go for barbs, danios, rasboras, corydoras, etc. What are your plans?

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 21 February 2005 13:19
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Test Results

             

            Are you suggesting adding 4 more zebra danios and 2 more cory catfish?  I already have 4 zebra danios and 1 cory catfish.  The tank is 20 gallons.  I just wanted to make sure.

             

            Regarding the ph, I've used ph down and it still seems to stay up.  I add water about once every week or so to replace what evaporates and I've tested pretty frequently in recent weeks to keep a check on the nitrites which were quite high.

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            Hi Angela,

             

            It seems fine to add some more fish to the setup but start with adding the 4 zebra danios first. Corydoras like to be in groups of 3 or more so reconsider that option.

             

            Test looks good and a Nitrate of 5 looks even better except for the fact that it is too low. Are you now feeding the fish well?

            Also, KH seems to be a bit low for a PH of 7.6 and could cause slight concern at later stages. Keep monitoring after adding the fish and hope for the best. If you get any ammonia or nitrite after adding the fish, do not panic as it could only be a mini cycle and will settle in about a week if no water changes are done. Longer if water changes are done J

             

            Good luck.,

            Nim

             

             


            From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 21 February 2005 13:05
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Results

             


            Now that my tank has cycled (I hope) I've tested all the parameters
            I can think of.  First question, are they satisfactory for four
            zebra danios, an emerald cory catfish, and two frogs (as well as
            several uninvited snails)?  If I need to change anything, how (water
            changes, added chemicals - don't really want to mess with this, but
            I will if I have to), etc.?  Also, I'd like to add more fish.  Is
            this advisable at this point.

            Again, as always, I appreciate your advice.  My hope is that I'll
            stick with this very rewarding hobby and be able to help someone
            else one day!

            Parameters:
            Ammonia 0 ppm
            Nitrite 0 ppm
            Nitrate 5 ppm
            ph  7.6+ the color is a bluer blue than the chart
            Gh  107.4 ppm or 6 degrees
            Kh   53.7 ppm or 3 degrees
            Temperature  73 degrees

            Thanks,
            Angela





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8673 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: Water Test Results
            I'd like a couple more corydoras, so the one we have will have company.  Would an upside down catfish count as company for our catfish?  I also love the zebra danios and would like at least 2 more to have a total of 6.  We had considered 2 weather loaches.  What else do you suggest?  Currently, we have:  4 zebra danios, the emerald cory catfish, and two frogs.  We have some live plants, which had snail eggs.  Now we have some snails, but the population hasn't exploded, so somebody's eating them.
             
            -------------- Original message --------------

            Sorry, I thought you wanted to add more of these. Test results are good enough for the existing fish and you could think about start adding a few more. Groups of no more then 4 fish in a go. Avoid sensitive fish like many tetras (Cardinals, neons, rummy nosed etc.) for the moment but you can defiantly go for barbs, danios, rasboras, corydoras, etc. What are your plans?

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 21 February 2005 13:19
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Test Results

             

            Are you suggesting adding 4 more zebra danios and 2 more cory catfish?  I already have 4 zebra danios and 1 cory catfish.  The tank is 20 gallons.  I just wanted to make sure.

             

            Regarding the ph, I've used ph down and it still seems to stay up.  I add water about once every week or so to replace what evaporates and I've tested pretty frequently in recent weeks to keep a check on the nitrites which were quite high.

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            Hi Angela,

             

            It seems fine to add some more fish to the setup but start with adding the 4 zebra danios first. Corydoras like to be in groups of 3 or more so reconsider that option.

             

            Test looks good and a Nitrate of 5 looks even better except for the fact that it is too low. Are you now feeding the fish well?

            Also, KH seems to be a bit low for a PH of 7.6 and could cause slight concern at later stages. Keep monitoring after adding the fish and hope for the best. If you get any ammonia or nitrite after adding the fish, do not panic as it could only be a mini cycle and will settle in about a week if no water changes are done. Longer if water changes are done J

             

            Good luck.,

            Nim

             

             


            From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 21 February 2005 13:05
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Results

             


            Now that my tank has cycled (I hope) I've tested all the parameters
            I can think of.  First question, are they satisfactory for four
            zebra danios, an emerald cory catfish, and two frogs (as well as
            several uninvited snails)?  If I need to change anything, how (water
            changes, added chemicals - don't really want to mess with this, but
            I will if I have to), etc.?  Also, I'd like to add more fish.  Is
            this advisable at this point.

            Again, as always, I appreciate your advice.  My hope is that I'll
            stick with this very rewarding hobby and be able to help someone
            else one day!

            Parameters:
            Ammonia 0 ppm
            Nitrite 0 ppm
            Nitrate 5 ppm
            ph  7.6+ the color is a bluer blue than the chart
            Gh  107.4 ppm or 6 degrees
            Kh   53.7 ppm or 3 degrees
            Temperature  73 degrees

            Thanks,
            Angela





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8674 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: Water Test Results
            In a message dated 2/21/2005 8:24:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, angelasjenkins@... writes:
             
            Regarding the ph, I've used ph down and it still seems to stay up.  I add water about once every week or so to replace what evaporates and I've tested pretty frequently in recent weeks to keep a check on the nitrites which were quite high.
            Have you tested your tap water for pH? Draw some water into a handy bowl and check it later. What sort of substrate and decor do you have in your tank? Any shells or pretty coral pieces? You don't want to monkey around with the pH too much if you can aviod it, better to be consistent than worry about always exactly meeting the pH parameters you've set for yourself.
             
            Now we have some snails, but the population hasn't exploded, so somebody's eating them.
             
            Give them a few more days.... =O
             
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8675 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: Water Test Results

            Corydoras and danios will be a good idea. Upside down catfish is very different and very nocturnal and may not be able to help corydoras in any way. Also, Weather loach are cold water fish so I think it is best to avoid them. You can get some more botia species for controlling snails but go for the ones that remain small. Clown loaches do tend to get big.

             

            Nim

             


            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 21 February 2005 13:41
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Test Results

             

            I'd like a couple more corydoras, so the one we have will have company.  Would an upside down catfish count as company for our catfish?  I also love the zebra danios and would like at least 2 more to have a total of 6.  We had considered 2 weather loaches.  What else do you suggest?  Currently, we have:  4 zebra danios, the emerald cory catfish, and two frogs.  We have some live plants, which had snail eggs.  Now we have some snails, but the population hasn't exploded, so somebody's eating them.

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            Sorry, I thought you wanted to add more of these. Test results are good enough for the existing fish and you could think about start adding a few more. Groups of no more then 4 fish in a go. Avoid sensitive fish like many tetras (Cardinals, neons, rummy nosed etc.) for the moment but you can defiantly go for barbs, danios, rasboras, corydoras, etc. What are your plans?

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 21 February 2005 13:19
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Test Results

             

            Are you suggesting adding 4 more zebra danios and 2 more cory catfish?  I already have 4 zebra danios and 1 cory catfish.  The tank is 20 gallons.  I just wanted to make sure.

             

            Regarding the ph, I've used ph down and it still seems to stay up.  I add water about once every week or so to replace what evaporates and I've tested pretty frequently in recent weeks to keep a check on the nitrites which were quite high.

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            Hi Angela,

             

            It seems fine to add some more fish to the setup but start with adding the 4 zebra danios first. Corydoras like to be in groups of 3 or more so reconsider that option.

             

            Test looks good and a Nitrate of 5 looks even better except for the fact that it is too low. Are you now feeding the fish well?

            Also, KH seems to be a bit low for a PH of 7.6 and could cause slight concern at later stages. Keep monitoring after adding the fish and hope for the best. If you get any ammonia or nitrite after adding the fish, do not panic as it could only be a mini cycle and will settle in about a week if no water changes are done. Longer if water changes are done J

             

            Good luck.,

            Nim

             

             


            From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 21 February 2005 13:05
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Results

             


            Now that my tank has cycled (I hope) I've tested all the parameters
            I can think of.  First question, are they satisfactory for four
            zebra danios, an emerald cory catfish, and two frogs (as well as
            several uninvited snails)?  If I need to change anything, how (water
            changes, added chemicals - don't really want to mess with this, but
            I will if I have to), etc.?  Also, I'd like to add more fish.  Is
            this advisable at this point.

            Again, as always, I appreciate your advice.  My hope is that I'll
            stick with this very rewarding hobby and be able to help someone
            else one day!

            Parameters:
            Ammonia 0 ppm
            Nitrite 0 ppm
            Nitrate 5 ppm
            ph  7.6+ the color is a bluer blue than the chart
            Gh  107.4 ppm or 6 degrees
            Kh   53.7 ppm or 3 degrees
            Temperature  73 degrees

            Thanks,
            Angela





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8676 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: Water Test Results

            Oh yes, I forgot that part.

             

            Don’t try to fiddle with your PH. If you tried PH down, then that explains why your KH is so low. What is the KH of your tap water?

             

            Dump the PH down bottle in the sink and do not try to work with modifying the PH. You will cause more damage then any benefit (If there will be any).

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: seleya8@... [mailto:seleya8@...]
            Sent: 21 February 2005 13:58
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Test Results

             

            In a message dated 2/21/2005 8:24:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, angelasjenkins@... writes:

             

            Regarding the ph, I've used ph down and it still seems to stay up.  I add water about once every week or so to replace what evaporates and I've tested pretty frequently in recent weeks to keep a check on the nitrites which were quite high.

            Have you tested your tap water for pH? Draw some water into a handy bowl and check it later. What sort of substrate and decor do you have in your tank? Any shells or pretty coral pieces? You don't want to monkey around with the pH too much if you can aviod it, better to be consistent than worry about always exactly meeting the pH parameters you've set for yourself.

             

            Now we have some snails, but the population hasn't exploded, so somebody's eating them.

             

            Give them a few more days.... =O

             



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8677 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: Water Test Results
            The ph in the tap water is high.  The same result as the tank water.  We have aquarium gravel - size of pea and smaller, some odd shaped.  I have some fake and some live plants and just some decorations you'd buy at walmart as well as a clam hooked up to an air pump.  Regarding the snails, we've had them for at least two weeks, but don't seem to have any more than we saw then.  No real shells or coral.  I agree, I don't want to add chemicals to the water (with the exception of the chlorine remover, which I forgot once and instantly killed two fish).
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            In a message dated 2/21/2005 8:24:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, angelasjenkins@... writes:
             
            Regarding the ph, I've used ph down and it still seems to stay up.  I add water about once every week or so to replace what evaporates and I've tested pretty frequently in recent weeks to keep a check on the nitrites which were quite high.
             
            Have you tested your tap water for pH? Draw some water into a handy bowl and check it later. What sort of substrate and decor do you have in your tank? Any shells or pretty coral pieces? You don't want to monkey around with the pH too much if you can aviod it, better to be consistent than worry about always exactly meeting the pH parameters you've set for yourself.
             
            Now we have some snails, but the population hasn't exploded, so somebody's eating them.
             
            Give them a few more days.... =O
             


            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8678 From: chelcecats@ameritech.net Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Betta's
            Can anyone possibly tell me why two of my betta's have developed swollen stomachs and act fine for many weeks anyhow.  The first one just got ill acting and it has been atleast a month.  Now another one has a swollen stomach, but still acting fine.
            I have done nothing different and have had them since last spring.
            thanks,
            Lois
             
             
            Lois A. Pomeroy
             
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8679 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: Water Test Results
            I found this website, http://www.elmersaquarium.com/10loach_weather.htm, and it indictes weather loaches like water between 75 and 80 degrees.  Is this incorrect?
             
            -------------- Original message --------------

            Corydoras and danios will be a good idea. Upside down catfish is very different and very nocturnal and may not be able to help corydoras in any way. Also, Weather loach are cold water fish so I think it is best to avoid them. You can get some more botia species for controlling snails but go for the ones that remain small. Clown loaches do tend to get big.

             

            Nim

             


            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 21 February 2005 13:41
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Test Results

             

            I'd like a couple more corydoras, so the one we have will have company.  Would an upside down catfish count as company for our catfish?  I also love the zebra danios and would like at least 2 more to have a total of 6.  We had considered 2 weather loaches.  What else do you suggest?  Currently, we have:  4 zebra danios, the emerald cory catfish, and two frogs.  We have some live plants, which had snail eggs.  Now we have some snails, but the population hasn't exploded, so somebody's eating them.

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            Sorry, I thought you wanted to add more of these. Test results are good enough for the existing fish and you could think about start adding a few more. Groups of no more then 4 fish in a go. Avoid sensitive fish like many tetras (Cardinals, neons, rummy nosed etc.) for the moment but you can defiantly go for barbs, danios, rasboras, corydoras, etc. What are your plans?

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 21 February 2005 13:19
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Test Results

             

            Are you suggesting adding 4 more zebra danios and 2 more cory catfish?  I already have 4 zebra danios and 1 cory catfish.  The tank is 20 gallons.  I just wanted to make sure.

             

            Regarding the ph, I've used ph down and it still seems to stay up.  I add water about once every week or so to replace what evaporates and I've tested pretty frequently in recent weeks to keep a check on the nitrites which were quite high.

             

            -------------- Original message --------------

            Hi Angela,

             

            It seems fine to add some more fish to the setup but start with adding the 4 zebra danios first. Corydoras like to be in groups of 3 or more so reconsider that option.

             

            Test looks good and a Nitrate of 5 looks even better except for the fact that it is too low. Are you now feeding the fish well?

            Also, KH seems to be a bit low for a PH of 7.6 and could cause slight concern at later stages. Keep monitoring after adding the fish and hope for the best. If you get any ammonia or nitrite after adding the fish, do not panic as it could only be a mini cycle and will settle in about a week if no water changes are done. Longer if water changes are done J

             

            Good luck.,

            Nim

             

             


            From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 21 February 2005 13:05
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Results

             


            Now that my tank has cycled (I hope) I've tested all the parameters
            I can think of.  First question, are they satisfactory for four
            zebra danios, an emerald cory catfish, and two frogs (as well as
            several uninvited snails)?  If I need to change anything, how (water
            changes, added chemicals - don't really want to mess with this, but
            I will if I have to), etc.?  Also, I'd like to add more fish.  Is
            this advisable at this point.

            Again, as always, I appreciate your advice.  My hope is that I'll
            stick with this very rewarding hobby and be able to help someone
            else one day!

            Parameters:
            Ammonia 0 ppm
            Nitrite 0 ppm
            Nitrate 5 ppm
            ph  7.6+ the color is a bluer blue than the chart
            Gh  107.4 ppm or 6 degrees
            Kh   53.7 ppm or 3 degrees
            Temperature  73 degrees

            Thanks,
            Angela





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks






            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8680 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: Water Test Results
            A natural method to lower PH would be to add some natural driftwood into the tank.  It will bring it down some. 
             
            Regards,
             
            Al Gleason
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8681 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Weather/Dojo Loaches
            In my experience these are GREAt fish to get if you have a snail infestation as they will push there way into the tiny shells and flex there muscular body and break the shell open or if they can get a hold of the snail they will drag it out of the shella nd shake it to death. If you have a small pea gravel or sand substrate you will loose your fish from time to time as they will burrow down into it and rest after a big meal. So watch thge suction tube of your gravel cleaner when you 1st start doing a waterchange... I did this once.. Temps in the lower 70's tend to be a good temperature for these fish as they are more active. Warmer water  tends to make them sluggish, and fade or loose coloartion.


            Background info:
            Refrences:
            http://www.loaches.com/
            freshaquarium.about.com
            http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/

            Weather loaches are also called Dojo loaches in case you did not know and where looking for them.

            There are a few variations of 2 species called dojo's or weater loaches the species are Misgurnus fossilis and Cobitis taenia. Both these fish have the same requirements.

            Dojo's  originate from China where they survive harsh winters by burrowing down into the mud and hibernate. Most Freshwater home aquariums  range from 60*F-79*F  and as long as the Dojo loach is acclimated to this temperature slowly. 

            They are called weather loaches because of there tendancy to go HYPER ACTIVE during weather changes. It is common when they are active for them to jump out of tanks, swim upstream into power filters, redecorate tanks, and push over decorations.  They are not good tankmates for shy or easily scared fish like Discuss, as they are to active. Keep a tight lid on your tank..


            There has been a few reports of Dojo's being spawned in home aquariums from what I have read they have been spawned in  tanks that get a lot of natural sunlight and is warmed  and cooled naturally by the sunlight.  ratio of 2 or 3 males to one female


            hope the little info helps
            rob
            NE Indiana
            USA









            In a message dated 2/21/2005 9:55:12 AM US Eastern Standard Time, angelasjenkins@... writes:



            I found this website, http://www.elmersaquarium.com/10loach_weather.htm, and it indictes weather loaches like water between 75 and 80 degrees.  Is this incorrect?









            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8682 From: eggybumstu Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: Betta's
            If you are feeding them dry foods like flake or even betta bio gold
            they often get constipated and bloated. If this condition is
            directly after feeding and they struggle to maintain balance and
            float near the top then i'm sure they are a bit backed up!!! If you
            feed them a more squidgy diet such as bloodworm, daphnia or
            brineshrimp this problem should stop. I had the same problem and
            asked the people at this forum and it sorted it good and proper give
            it a try if your not sure

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Betta_Crazy/?yguid=186245121

            Hope that helps Stu


            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "chelcecats@a..."
            <chelcecats@a...> wrote:
            > Can anyone possibly tell me why two of my betta's have developed
            swollen
            > stomachs and act fine for many weeks anyhow. The first one just
            got ill
            > acting and it has been atleast a month. Now another one has a
            swollen
            > stomach, but still acting fine.
            > I have done nothing different and have had them since last spring.
            > thanks,
            > Lois
            >
            >
            > Lois A. Pomeroy
            > http://www.chelcecats.com
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8683 From: Colleen Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: new
            If I get a new tank say a 10 gallon or 5 gallon can you put fish in right away or not?
             
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8684 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: Snails and Ich
            I have heard of peoples snails getting fuzzy stuff on the shells.  Most of the time though they have something similar strung across the gravel.  Is the tank completely cycled?  The most common snail fungus occurs on their foot, it will get white patches (like thrush in humans) and is treated with melafix.
             
            Snails do float, sometimes for days.  If it goes on longer than that check your nitrates and ph levels.  If you never see it on the bottom let me know and I'll give you a link to directions on how rotate it to empty trapped air from it's shell. 
             
            You could also try (with clean hands) sitting it in your palm until it opens.  That will usually make it release any air it's holding on purpose and then it will sink.
             
            I hope this helps.
             
            ps, usually when a snail dies you will find it on it's side with the door slightly open and it's foot will be very shrunken and v shaped.  It will also be the worst smell ever.

            Terri Bryant
            www.RainbowSnails.com




            -------- Original Message --------
            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snails and Ich
            From: "jammerjr41" <jammerjr41@...>
            Date: Sun, February 20, 2005 8:14 am
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, terri@r... wrote:
            >

            My snail has a white fuzz on it's shell. Do they get another type of
            fungus/parisite?  Also, my snail is not moving very much lately.
            Fish are easy to spot when they are dead, do snails float when their
            dead or do they just never come back out of their shell?  The snail
            only came out of its shell partially yesterday, but I know it was
            still alive because I have to move it to move some plants and it
            tucked itself back into its shell.  

            *Funny how alot of the emails I've been reading are about how to
            kill off the snails and I'm trying to keep mine alive.

            Thanks for your earlier response.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8685 From: paul helms Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: new
            not if you are hoping to keep them alive
            --- Colleen <alaskaicekubes@...> wrote:

            > If I get a new tank say a 10 gallon or 5 gallon can
            > you put fish in right away or not?
            >





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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8686 From: infomehlb Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Potted plants in an established tank
            I have an established 10 gal tank and want to move from plastic to
            real plants. I have read much in the way of new tank setup with
            laterite, however I would like to use laterite in a potted plant
            setup. Any comments suggestions for going down this road? Can I mix
            the laterite as recommended and put the plants in pots with
            supplements added to the water on a regular basis?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8687 From: ben_noreau Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Green Algae
            Hello all,

            I have some funky green algea that appear almost literally
            overnight. I have a 29 gallon tank and all of my maintenance is done
            regularly and my water levels are normal. The questions I have are these:

            Any ideas where it came from?
            Is it harmful?
            How do I get rid of it if it is?
            How can I prevent it from reoccuring if its bad?
            If it is good what do I do with it?

            The fish populating the tank are as follows:
            5 Neon Tetras
            3 Red Eye tetra
            2 Serpae Tetras
            2 Glowlight Tetras
            2 Headlight taillight Tetras
            2 Sword Tail Female
            2 Guppie Male
            2 High Fin black Tetra
            1 Marble Mollie
            1 Albino Corrie Catfish
            1 Octocinclus


            Thanks,
            Ben
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8688 From: Carly Smith Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Water change results and weather loach
            Re: getting the pH down...doesn't the tannins from driftwood lower it? As well, I have heard peat will lower pH, some peopel put it in their filter, some just in a little nylon bag hanging in the tank. I have never used it as my tank stays about 7.2. I do notice my tanks with driftwood stays about 7.0. Just a note though, tannins will colour the water. I know a lot of people say the water will be clear after a few months....my tanks with wood always have water with an orangeish tint, not that it really bothers me, it is very slight and is very natural looking.

            Also re: the weather loach. Just from personal experience...my weather loach does just fine in my community tank that I keep between 75 and 78. Then again, so did my white minnows (who are now in a cold water tank). Stanley (weather loach) is active, eats well, digs up all my plants...everything a weather loach should do! Maybe he would be happier in the cold water tank, however I don't think he would be happy with the size 10gallons...I think he would probably prefer warmer water and 75 gallons of fish to harrass. What I have read about them indicates that they have a wide temperature tolerance.

            Carly
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8689 From: Ben Noreau Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: Green Algae
            Hello,

            I forgot to mention that the tank has a gravel
            bottom, which is where the algae is at. There is no
            algae on the walls or floating in the water. Also
            there arent any live plants in this tank either.

            Thanks,
            Ben


            =====



            Ben




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8690 From: Gary Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: Water Test Results
            Weather loaches are great.  I love my two and they get along great in a community tank.  But stay away from the upside down catfish.  I bought a small one several years ago because it was so cute, then all my smaller fish started disappearing.  The mouth on these things is HUGE.  Also, it is very nocturnal.  It is always hiding in a corner during the day and creating havoc during the night.


            angelasjenkins@... wrote:
            I'd like a couple more corydoras, so the one we have will have company.  Would an upside down catfish count as company for our catfish?  I also love the zebra danios and would like at least 2 more to have a total of 6.  We had considered 2 weather loaches.  What else do you suggest?  Currently, we have:  4 zebra danios, the emerald cory catfish, and two frogs.  We have some live plants, which had snail eggs.  Now we have some snails, but the population hasn't exploded, so somebody's eating them.
             

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8691 From: eric douglas Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: new
            Sure go ahead and put them in. Oh that white cloud you
            see is nothing just ignore it. LOL
            Well maybe you should wait.





            --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

            > not if you are hoping to keep them alive
            > --- Colleen <alaskaicekubes@...> wrote:
            >
            > > If I get a new tank say a 10 gallon or 5 gallon
            > can
            > > you put fish in right away or not?
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
            > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8692 From: Elizabeth Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: Snails and Ich
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, terri@r... wrote:
            >
            Sadness, my snail is officially deceased... :(

            Yesterday, I decided that I needed to have someone else look at my
            snail and confirm my fears. I went to my local fish aquariam center
            and they took one look and sniff and said, "sorry, but dead." Geez,
            I'm feeling pretty hopeless, I can't even keep a snail alive.

            My friend, Tara at the Aquariam center said it was either the
            dramatic change in the PH level or just the ammonia spikes from all
            the other goldfish that have died. I think it was the PH level
            change because my snail had been fine on Friday (this is after I
            started with a new tank, added a heater and began PH changes).

            Anyway, Tara tested my water and told me I'm now ready again to
            start a new tank and add my initial starter fish. She gave me 4
            very small Zebra Dania's and some "new tank" stuff that's supposed
            to help with "cycle" the water so that it's got the good bacteria.

            I'm hoping to get a new snail in about 6 weeks or after Tara re-
            tests my water and gives me the okay. I don't have living plants so
            I'm really looking forward to the snail. She even told me I could
            get a couple of aquatic fresh-water frogs...which my sons and I
            agree would be so cool.

            I just hope I can keep these Zebras alive. If not, I think I'm
            retiring from my brief adventure with fish. :)

            Thanks again for taking the time to help the very very new fish
            adventurer. I'm hoping this works out (ie. the Zebra's make
            it)...it's sad to think that I have 2 college degrees, 2 healthy
            boys, a thriving fitness career, but can't keep a couple of figgin
            goldfish alive!! I have utter awe and respect for those people in
            this thoughly frustrating hobby. It is SO not as easy at it looks!
            >:)
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8693 From: Elizabeth Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: new
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Colleen" <alaskaicekubes@a...>
            wrote:
            > If I get a new tank say a 10 gallon or 5 gallon can you put fish
            in right away or not?

            Hi Colleen,

            I am quite new to the fish tank hobby. I finally found a person at
            a local aquariam-only shop nearby that gave me some great advice
            about getting started. I suggest you get acquainted with the local
            aquariam store (NOT PETSMART!) and let them help get you started.
            It's tougher that it looks!! The average employee at Petsmart is
            usually a high school kid that decided not to work at
            McDonalds....so their expertise is quite limited.

            Learn from my mistakes...Find a shop that only deals with fish and
            you'll probably do just fine :)

            Good Luck!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8694 From: sdaccord03 Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: LiveAquaria.com
            I am a member of this group. I am not affiliated in any way with
            the company I'm mentioning but they are very very good so I wanted
            to post something about them.

            You can reach them at www.liveaquaria.com and their prices are
            excellent along with their selection. They also have some of the
            cheapest shipping charges for any online livestock company.

            I hope you find your experience with them as pleasurable as I found
            mine.

            Jimmy
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8695 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: new
            If you use a filter from an old established tank you can use a new tank with aged water right away.
            If you are using NEW tank, New water, New filter your tank will have to cycle.
            You can add fish, right away they just might not live through the cycling process.

            rob
            Indiana
            USA


            In a message dated 2/21/2005 12:25:55 PM US Eastern Standard Time, alaskaicekubes@... writes:


            If I get a new tank say a 10 gallon or 5 gallon can you put fish in right away or not?


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8696 From: photo_muse Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Upside-down Catfish (was: Water Test Results)
            Hi Angela!

            << But stay away from the upside down catfish. I bought a small one
            several years ago because it was so cute, then all my smaller fish
            started disappearing. The mouth on these things is HUGE. Also, it
            is very nocturnal. It is always hiding in a corner during the day
            and creating havoc during the night. >>

            I'm not a fish expert, but we have had an upside-down catfish going
            on three years now. We have mollies that are constantly having
            babies and at this time, we just let the babies fend and whomever can
            hide from hungry fish grows up. So it is entirely possible that our
            upside-down catfish eats baby mollies ... but then so do the adult
            mollies! Other than the mollies, the smallest fish I have in my tank
            are zebra and leopard danios. None have disappeared so far. :)

            On the plus side, they are really cool to watch swimming around.
            Also, I had one survive out of the tank for almost ten minutes! (I
            didn't realize that it was sucked onto an ornament I took out of the
            tank!) From reading, it sounds like armored catfish can live longer
            out of water ... plus the fact that most catfish can gulp air from
            the surface, also helped, I'm sure. So it's been a really hardy fish!

            On the down side, Gary is correct about them being nocturnal. As
            cool as they are to watch swimming around, they almost never do it
            during the day/when the lights are on ... unless I'm in there moving
            around and it's looking for a new place to hide! I see my cory cats
            all the time, but the upside-down catfish, I have to go hunting for!

            Peggy :)
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8697 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 2/21/2005
            Subject: Re: Water Test Results
            Angela, I think people missed the last part of the comment:

            --"Angela" <angelasjenkins@c...> wrote:
            > Parameters:...
            > ph 7.6+ the color is a bluer blue than the chart


            In my water test kit there are two pH testers, one for low ph and
            one for high ph. I think my low pH finishes around pH 7.6.


            When i test my water with the low pH range it is 'bluer than blue'
            or pH 7.6+, then i test it with my high pH range and i normally find
            that its much higher about 8.4 (on a really bad day).

            I have observed that my fish get very red gills when the pH is high
            so normally i use pH down to make the water go closer to pH 7
            (neutral). Then after a couple of days my fish's gills are back to
            normal.


            YOU REALLY NEED TO GET THE HIGH TEST KIT AS WELL.


            = Nick
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8698 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 2/22/2005
            Subject: Re: Potted plants in an established tank
            Make sure the pots are ventilated for root expansion, and for
            water/air movement. Either that or pourous. No solid plastics.
            Clay is okay, even cracked clay or orchid pots. Plastic mesh is
            fine...etc...
            > I have an established 10 gal tank and want to move from plastic to
            > real plants. I have read much in the way of new tank setup with
            > laterite, however I would like to use laterite in a potted plant
            > setup. Any comments suggestions for going down this road? Can I
            mix
            > the laterite as recommended and put the plants in pots with
            > supplements added to the water on a regular basis?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8699 From: rojeriko Date: 2/22/2005
            Subject: SAE vs. Flag fish
            Hi,
            I am thinking about adding some real Siamese Algae Eaters to get rid
            of the thread algae. (I know this is a short term fix and I'm working
            on the root casue of this problem.) 2 of the LFS recommended the
            American Flag Fish for thread algae. I read some mixed info about
            including this fish in a very peacefull planted community tank. I
            have white clouds, platies, ottos, ghost shrimps and a few platy fries
            ( a few days to 1 month old).

            Would flag fish bother my tank inhabitants?
            Would it eat my plants? (amazon sword, red ludwigia, hornworth,
            bacopa, cabomba, wisteria, java fern)

            Btw, is it a cichlid or a killifish

            Thanks a lot
            Murat
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8700 From: Anne Date: 2/22/2005
            Subject: Re: Betta's
            I've also heard that a pea is good for constipation.
            Don't know firsthand about the constipation rememdy,
            but my Bettas seem to like them. Take a froz. pea (or
            fresh), put it in some warm water for awhile, then
            peel the skin off. You'll find 2 little pods inside.
            Give a pod to each beta.
            Anne


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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8701 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/23/2005
            Subject: Tank Setup
            Hi,
            I am still waiting on that guy to make a list of what all he will send
            me with the 30 gallon hex tank, so in the mean time I figured I could
            ask you guys some questions.

            How much oystershell (I dont want sand) for the gravel should I use?
            How thick of bottom? How many pounds (And again, this is a 30 gal hex)?

            How much salt should I get (in pounds)?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8702 From: aquababy_1958 Date: 2/23/2005
            Subject: discus
            Hi all
            I have a 55gal established tank , beautiful, thanks for all the
            advice, it's doing well.
            I have since then purchased a 75 gal. and it is in the cycle mode.
            I would love to get it ready for a species only tank, of Discus.
            Currently cycling with 3 Mollies.
            Any advice? Sure could use some.
            What an addicting hobby, my family says I'm obsessed by it all!!!!
            Yep!!!
            Thanks in advance for the info!!
            Loie
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8703 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/23/2005
            Subject: Re: discus
            "it is in the cycle mode" What is the cycle mode???


            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "aquababy_1958"
            <aquababy_1958@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi all
            > I have a 55gal established tank , beautiful, thanks for all the
            > advice, it's doing well.
            > I have since then purchased a 75 gal. and it is in the cycle mode.
            > I would love to get it ready for a species only tank, of Discus.
            > Currently cycling with 3 Mollies.
            > Any advice? Sure could use some.
            > What an addicting hobby, my family says I'm obsessed by it all!!!!
            > Yep!!!
            > Thanks in advance for the info!!
            > Loie
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8704 From: paul helms Date: 2/23/2005
            Subject: Re: Tank Setup
            it is crushed coral...at least 1 pound per gallon, and
            i would put live sand under it if i were you
            salt is measured with a hydroimeter...do some reading
            before you jump headlong into this
            --- Zac Lohrenz <zacdl@...> wrote:

            >
            > Hi,
            > I am still waiting on that guy to make a list of
            > what all he will send
            > me with the 30 gallon hex tank, so in the mean time
            > I figured I could
            > ask you guys some questions.
            >
            > How much oystershell (I dont want sand) for the
            > gravel should I use?
            > How thick of bottom? How many pounds (And again,
            > this is a 30 gal hex)?
            >
            > How much salt should I get (in pounds)?
            >
            >
            >
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8705 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 2/23/2005
            Subject: Re: Tank Setup
            He is sending me all the test kits I need he says, so I imagine that
            included a hydrometer (I was asking how many pound to buy at the store
            so I have enough. How many pounds should I buy?)

            I dont want sand b/c it will have a undergravel filter, which will
            help with the bio filtration (I dont think I am going to use live
            rock, because I asked some professionals the other day about it, and
            they say it is not nessesary for what I am going to do).

            The guy I am getting it from said that I could either use crushed
            oyster shells or crushed coaral. 1 pound per gallon will get it how
            thick on the bottom of the tank?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8706 From: Elizabeth Date: 2/23/2005
            Subject: Zebra Danias & Bullying
            I put 4 zebra danias in my tank this week and I'm noticing that one
            of them seems to be bullying the other 3. This fish swims after any
            of the other 3 in what I feel is an aggressive manner.

            Is this normal behavior for this type of fish or is it something
            other than bullying...? Should I be concerned about the stress on
            the other 3 danias?

            The bully is also the biggest of the four.

            Thanks for any advice you might have,
            Elizabeth
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8707 From: Loie Date: 2/23/2005
            Subject: Re: discus
            It's cyclinge as in establishing itself?

            Zac Lohrenz <zacdl@...> wrote:

            "it is in the cycle mode" What is the cycle mode???


            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "aquababy_1958"
            <aquababy_1958@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi all
            > I have a 55gal established tank , beautiful, thanks for all the
            > advice, it's doing well.
            >   I have since then purchased a 75 gal. and it is in the cycle mode.
            > I would love to get it ready for a species only tank, of Discus.
            > Currently cycling with 3 Mollies.
            > Any advice? Sure could use some.
            > What an addicting hobby, my family says I'm obsessed by it all!!!!
            > Yep!!!
            > Thanks in advance for the info!!
            > Loie





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8708 From: shortlid Date: 2/23/2005
            Subject: Want something diff. for my 30 gal.
            I donated a few of my more agresive fish to a 50 gal. tank in a
            nursing home so I have more room for something more intersting. I
            was thinking about either a Bala Shark, and Black Tiped Shark, or
            Knife, or a Loach? I have a Dojo loach and like him allot but I want
            one with diff. colors?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8709 From: Loie Date: 2/23/2005
            Subject: Re: discus
            Also, I have been looking for some Java Moss, can't seem to find any stores around my area that carries it. Can anyone help me out here?
            Would gladly pay for some, , Loie

            Loie <aquababy_1958@...> wrote:
            It's cyclinge as in establishing itself?

            Zac Lohrenz <zacdl@...> wrote:

            "it is in the cycle mode" What is the cycle mode???


            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "aquababy_1958"
            <aquababy_1958@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi all
            > I have a 55gal established tank , beautiful, thanks for all the
            > advice, it's doing well.
            >   I have since then purchased a 75 gal. and it is in the cycle mode.
            > I would love to get it ready for a species only tank, of Discus.
            > Currently cycling with 3 Mollies.
            > Any advice? Sure could use some.
            > What an addicting hobby, my family says I'm obsessed by it all!!!!
            > Yep!!!
            > Thanks in advance for the info!!
            > Loie





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks


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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8710 From: raleighaquariumsociety Date: 2/23/2005
            Subject: Raleigh Aquarium society Annual Workshop & Auction
            Hey everyone,

            For anyone that is within dring distance of NC, the Raleigh Aquarium
            Society will have its annual workshop and giant aquarium auction
            this coming weekend. Check out our website at:
            http://www.fishclubs.com/nc/ras/index.html

            Hope to see some of you all there.

            Thanks,
            Brandon
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8711 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/23/2005
            Subject: Re: discus -> cycle
            Click (or copy/paste) the link below my name: 
             
            Patrick, the American Fish Guy
             
            Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
            -------Original Message-------
            "it is in the cycle mode" What is the cycle mode???
            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8712 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/23/2005
            Subject: California Betta Society , 2/26/2005, 2:00 pm
            Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
            California Betta Society

            Saturday February 26, 2005
            2:00 pm - 5:00 pm
            This event does not repeat.

            Event Location: El Rancho Steak House, 24052 Mission Boulevard Hayward, CA 94544
            Notes:
            http://www.cbsbettas.org/

            Next Meeting: Feb 26 , 2005

            Februay 2005 Meeting:

            Betta auction
            Date: February 26 , 2005 (Sat.)
            Time: 2:00 to 5:00pm
            Location:
            El Rancho Steak House
            24052 Mission Boulevard
            Hayward, CA 94544
            Ph. (510) 733-2314


            Location:

            El Rancho Steak House in Haward, CA.


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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8713 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/23/2005
            Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting, 3/5/2005, 6:30 pm
            Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
            Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting

            Saturday March 5, 2005
            6:30 pm - 8:30 pm
            This event repeats on the first Saturday of every month.
            The next reminder for this event will be sent in 7 days, 4 minutes.

            Event Location: MEETING LOCATION: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Ave., San Jose CA, USA
            Street: MEETING LOCATION: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Ave.
            City, State, Zip: San Jose, CA

            Notes:
            Silicon Valley Aquarium Society meetings are held the first Saturday of every month in San Jose. See http://www.svas.info for more information

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            Privacy Policy - Terms of Service
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8714 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/23/2005
            Subject: Re: Zebra Danias & Bullying
            I have some other types of danios and the one that's the biggest is
            always chasing everyone.... when I first got them while chasing each
            other I noticed eggs floating to the bottom of the tank, so they might
            be mating. Although I think mine is a bully too compared to the rest
            of my fish, but she's never hurt anybody.
            >
            > I put 4 zebra danias in my tank this week and I'm noticing that one
            > of them seems to be bullying the other 3. This fish swims after any
            > of the other 3 in what I feel is an aggressive manner.
            >
            > Is this normal behavior for this type of fish or is it something
            > other than bullying...? Should I be concerned about the stress on
            > the other 3 danias?
            >
            > The bully is also the biggest of the four.
            >
            > Thanks for any advice you might have,
            > Elizabeth
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8715 From: dragon6435@aol.com Date: 2/23/2005
            Subject: Goldfish question
            I'm passing this question along for a friend of mine who just got a shipment today of goldfish.  They arrived very poorly packaged, in a cardboard box which had been battered and no insulation other than some bubble wrap.  After a very lengthy acclimatization, the fish are all living and doing fairly well but one has a problem.  She got a ryukin in the mix and his dorsal fin may have actually gotten broken in the shipping process.  She says that it is lying flat on his back and he isn't lifting it at all.  If it is broken, and considering the state they arrived in that wouldn't be hard to believe, is there anything she can do, and will it heal?

            Thanks for any input from the goldfish people on this list.

            Linda
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8716 From: Elizabeth Date: 2/23/2005
            Subject: Re: Zebra Danias & Bullying
            Thanks, I'll check with my friend at the local aquariam center and
            see if she confirms the "mating" theory. Geez, did you get more
            Dania's...? Ie. did they hatch...?

            E

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mommy2acdhsurvivor"
            <CK147@H...> wrote:
            >
            > I have some other types of danios and the one that's the biggest is
            > always chasing everyone.... when I first got them while chasing
            each
            > other I noticed eggs floating to the bottom of the tank, so they
            might
            > be mating. Although I think mine is a bully too compared to the
            rest
            > of my fish, but she's never hurt anybody.
            > >
            > > I put 4 zebra danias in my tank this week and I'm noticing that
            one
            > > of them seems to be bullying the other 3. This fish swims after
            any
            > > of the other 3 in what I feel is an aggressive manner.
            > >
            > > Is this normal behavior for this type of fish or is it something
            > > other than bullying...? Should I be concerned about the stress
            on
            > > the other 3 danias?
            > >
            > > The bully is also the biggest of the four.
            > >
            > > Thanks for any advice you might have,
            > > Elizabeth
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8717 From: paul helms Date: 2/23/2005
            Subject: Re: Tank Setup
            about 2 inches.......a ugf is not a saltwater filter.
            it will not keep up the water quality high enough for
            salt water fish, they are 2x as sensitive as
            freshwater fish. you will need a protein skimmer. i
            have 12 years in the hobby, but whether you follow
            experienced advice is up to you. salt is not sold by
            the pound. a standard bag makes 50 gallons, but there
            are smaller ones down to 5 gallon mixes. it is about
            1/3-1/2 cup per gallon.
            --- Zac Lohrenz <zacdl@...> wrote:

            >
            > He is sending me all the test kits I need he says,
            > so I imagine that
            > included a hydrometer (I was asking how many pound
            > to buy at the store
            > so I have enough. How many pounds should I buy?)
            >
            > I dont want sand b/c it will have a undergravel
            > filter, which will
            > help with the bio filtration (I dont think I am
            > going to use live
            > rock, because I asked some professionals the other
            > day about it, and
            > they say it is not nessesary for what I am going to
            > do).
            >
            > The guy I am getting it from said that I could
            > either use crushed
            > oyster shells or crushed coaral. 1 pound per gallon
            > will get it how
            > thick on the bottom of the tank?
            >
            >
            >
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8718 From: eggybumstu Date: 2/23/2005
            Subject: Re: American flagfish
            Hi Murat I think either of these fish would be a great addition to
            your com set up. Both fish are peaceful species with the falg fish
            being quite a hardy and pretty fish. With regards to removing your
            algae with these fish, it will be neccessary to reduce or cut out
            feeding for a couple of days at a time. These guys will only eat
            algae if there is no other food source available. I dragged up some
            info for you to check out the stats of each fish. Be warned that
            the Chinese Algae eater is fairly aggressive so not a good choice
            for the com. tank, the SAE is completely safe.

            http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/wild/algae_eater_siamese.ht
            m
            http://www.millevolte.com/nativefish02.html
            http://www.petfish.net/flag_fish.htm
            http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/

            Hope that helps you, Stu
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8719 From: daniel_roachus Date: 2/24/2005
            Subject: Re: Want something diff. for my 30 gal.
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "shortlid" <shortlid@j...> wrote:
            >
            > I donated a few of my more agresive fish to a 50 gal. tank in a
            > nursing home so I have more room for something more intersting. I
            > was thinking about either a Bala Shark, and Black Tiped Shark, or
            > Knife, or a Loach? I have a Dojo loach and like him allot but I
            want
            > one with diff. colors?

            I think Bala sharks are too big for a 30g.

            Other ideas:

            A pearl gourami
            livebearers
            small rainbowfish
            congo tetras
            Peacefull barbs (eg banmded, gold)
            Tiger barbs
            a red tailed black shark..


            etc.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8720 From: Kimberly Date: 2/24/2005
            Subject: Angel Fish died with no apparent cause
            Hi, Last night I found one of my angels lying on the bottom of the
            tank dead. I had just looked in the tank an hour before and everyone
            seemed fine. I have a 29 gallon tank with the two angels, a pleco
            and four zebra tetras in it. Obviously he was not stressed because
            his color was beautiful. No bite marks that I could see or anything.
            Can fish have heart attacks or something? I did a water test and
            everything is fine and within normal limits. All other fish seem
            fine also. This tank is an established tank for about 5 months now.
            No new fish or anything. Anyone have any suggestoins as to what to
            look for? Thanks.

            Kim
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8721 From: shortlid Date: 2/24/2005
            Subject: Re: Want something diff. for my 30 gal.
            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_roachus"
            <daniel_roach@h...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "shortlid" <shortlid@j...>
            wrote:
            > >
            > > I donated a few of my more agresive fish to a 50 gal. tank in a
            > > nursing home so I have more room for something more intersting.
            I
            > > was thinking about either a Bala Shark, and Black Tiped Shark,
            or
            > > Knife, or a Loach? I have a Dojo loach and like him allot but I
            > want
            > > one with diff. colors?
            >
            > I think Bala sharks are too big for a 30g.
            >
            > Other ideas:
            >
            > A pearl gourami
            > livebearers
            > small rainbowfish
            > congo tetras
            > Peacefull barbs (eg banmded, gold)
            > Tiger barbs
            > a red tailed black shark..
            >
            >
            > etc.

            All my livebearers were bullies gave them away. gourami's got this
            weid swim upside down at hyper speed problem! got a ranibow he chases
            to much, tetras and barbs are to boring. I have heard that red
            tailed sharks are very big bullies and bottom dwellers?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8722 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/24/2005
            Subject: Re: Want something diff. for my 30 gal.
            Scrap the whole tank and go with some shell swellers.  or if your water is soft go with a trio of Apistogramma.


            my 2cents
            rob
            Indiana


            In a message dated 2/24/2005 2:18:12 PM US Eastern Standard Time, shortlid@... writes:


            > etc.

            All my livebearers were bullies gave them away.  gourami's got this
            weid swim upside down at hyper speed problem! got a ranibow he chases
            to much, tetras and barbs are to boring.  I have heard that red
            tailed sharks are very big bullies and bottom dwellers?


            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8723 From: jcarter4490 Date: 2/24/2005
            Subject: Re: Angel Fish died with no apparent cause
            Hmmm, maybe it was internal parasites? That really sucks.

            By the way, do you mean Zebra Danios?

            Jeremy
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8724 From: AL Date: 2/24/2005
            Subject: Cleaning
            Hello,
            Can anyone recommend something to clean out the hoses used to
            fill and remove water form the tanks during water changes? What Iam
            wondering is if there something you can soak the houses in to help
            break down the grotwh on the inside of the hose?
            Thanks,
            Al K.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8725 From: infomehlb Date: 2/24/2005
            Subject: CO2 injection
            I have been looking into CO2 injection for my future plans of
            introducing real plants and would like to know what components are
            recommended. I have done some reading on the subject so I understand
            the process/concept.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8726 From: Kimberly Date: 2/24/2005
            Subject: Re: Angel Fish died with no apparent cause
            yes, sorry, danios. So if it was internal parasites, is there
            anything I can do to avoid this in the future?


            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jcarter4490" <jcarter4490@y...>
            wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hmmm, maybe it was internal parasites? That really sucks.
            >
            > By the way, do you mean Zebra Danios?
            >
            > Jeremy
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8727 From: Amalthea Date: 2/24/2005
            Subject: Re: CO2 injection
            i've been doing it for several weeks now using the jello method. all
            that's needed is tubing, silicone, a 2 liter soda bottle (or other
            similar, sealable container), jello, yeast and water. you can find
            instructions here:
            http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9916&highlight=jello
            there are pictures of my tank in the photo section if you want to see
            my results so far.
            amalthea
            Bored? Never Fear!
            http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
            On Feb 24, 2005, at 5:50 PM, infomehlb wrote:

            >
            > I have been looking into CO2 injection for my future plans of
            > introducing real plants and would like to know what components are
            > recommended.  I have done some reading on the subject so I understand
            > the process/concept. 
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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            >
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            >
            > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            >  
            > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >  
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8728 From: Amalthea Date: 2/24/2005
            Subject: Re: Angel Fish died with no apparent cause
            something some people don't realize is a lot of the time, fish just
            die. when an animal produces more than 2 or 3 at a time in the breeding
            cycle, most are bound to not survive, so sometimes there just isn't a
            reason. as for internal parasites, there are medications available, but
            the best cure is prevention by quarantining new fish for 6-8 weeks
            before introducing them into the main tank.
            http://www.puppetterrors.com
            Don't be Afraid to Scream....
            On Feb 24, 2005, at 6:29 PM, Kimberly wrote:

            >
            >
            > yes, sorry, danios.  So if it was internal parasites, is there
            > anything I can do to avoid this in the future?
            >
            >
            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jcarter4490" <jcarter4490@y...>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Hmmm, maybe it was internal parasites? That really sucks.
            > >
            > > By the way, do you mean Zebra Danios?
            > >
            > > Jeremy
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >
            > ADVERTISEMENT
            > <22305_0205_016_b_300250_a.gif>
            > <l.gif>
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
            >  
            > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >  
            > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > Service.
            >
            >
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8729 From: Jeremy Carter Date: 2/24/2005
            Subject: Re: Angel Fish died with no apparent cause
            Hmm, I think it's just something the fish come into the store with. There might some meds, but I don't know about any of them. Good luck.

            Kimberly <kkproulx@...> wrote:


            yes, sorry, danios.  So if it was internal parasites, is there
            anything I can do to avoid this in the future?


            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jcarter4490" <jcarter4490@y...>
            wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hmmm, maybe it was internal parasites? That really sucks.
            >
            > By the way, do you mean Zebra Danios?
            >
            > Jeremy








            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8730 From: greywolfmm Date: 2/24/2005
            Subject: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas
            I just started a 29 gallon freshwater tank. While I wait for it to
            cycle, I've been thinking about the fish I want to put in it. I'm
            moving up for a 20 gallon community tank that I used to commit all the
            newbie mistakes we newbies make. With many lessons learned, I plan on
            doing this one right.

            So, here's what I'm thinking about doing. Please let me know if this
            won't work or if it's too many fish for the tank.

            6 tiger barbs (2 regular tiger, 2 green tiger, 2 black ruby)
            2 gourami (1 blue and 1 gold)
            1 "cleaner" type fish.

            I have read in many places that you need to keep barbs in schools of
            at least 6. I could be wrong, but isn't putting 6 fish in a tank all
            at the same time a bad thing to do?

            I would appreciate any input.

            Thanks,

            Kevin
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8731 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/24/2005
            Subject: Re: Cleaning

            I usually go to the dollar store buy a gallon of bleach for $.89 put it in a 5 gallon bucket, fill bucket 3/4 way with water and then drain it using the syphon.  Its cheap and easy... Then rinse it out really good should do the trick.

            rob
            Indiana


            In a message dated 2/24/2005 5:25:06 PM US Eastern Standard Time, ALKILLIAN@... writes:



            Hello,
                Can anyone recommend something to clean out the hoses used to
            fill and remove water form the tanks during water changes? What Iam
            wondering is if there something you can soak the houses in to help
            break down the grotwh on the inside of the hose?
              Thanks,
                Al K.



            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8732 From: Angela Date: 2/25/2005
            Subject: My Water Test Results
            This morning I tested my water, since we've added several fish this
            week.

            Ammonia is still 0
            Nitrites are still 0
            Nitrates are at 40, up from 5 on Monday

            Is this a concern? I'm not as knowledgeable about nitrates as I am
            about the nitrite and ammonia issues. Do I need to do anything -
            water change? I have increased the feedings to about every other
            day, should I increase to every day for flakes and every two days
            for pellets?

            Thanks for your help.

            In the tank:

            4 zebra danios
            3 flame tetras
            3 cory catfish
            2 violet goby
            2 African dwarf frogs
            1 large snail

            Angela
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8733 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/25/2005
            Subject: Re: My Water Test Results

            Angela,

            Feeding every other day and nitrates going up from 5 to 40 in 4 days is not possible IMO. How sure are you that your original nitrates were 5?

             

            Can you test your tap water for nitrates?

             

            Nim

             

             


            From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
            Sent: 25 February 2005 12:35
            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AquaticLife] My Water Test Results

             


            This morning I tested my water, since we've added several fish this
            week. 

            Ammonia is still 0
            Nitrites are still 0
            Nitrates are at 40, up from 5 on Monday

            Is this a concern?  I'm not as knowledgeable about nitrates as I am
            about the nitrite and ammonia issues.  Do I need to do anything -
            water change?  I have increased the feedings to about every other
            day, should I increase to every day for flakes and every two days
            for pellets?

            Thanks for your help. 

            In the tank:

            4 zebra danios
            3 flame tetras
            3 cory catfish
            2 violet goby
            2 African dwarf frogs
            1 large snail

            Angela





            please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8734 From: craig davison Date: 2/25/2005
            Subject: NEWBIE log book programme
            Hi all
            Can anyone HELP?
            Is there any FREE software or a programme i can use to make a log
            book of my freshwater tank?.
            CRAIG
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8735 From: Julie Date: 2/25/2005
            Subject: New Tank, maybe
            We are thinking about getting a new tank, a 33 gallon long, and putting my bala sharks (2) clown loaches (3) and possibly some small schooling fish, maybe danios or tetras. I would like to set this up planted from day one.   If I do this, after the tank is cycled and pretty stable, how long do I need to wait between additions.  Example, If I move the balas, how long should I wait before I can move a loach or two? One week, two, three??  Thanks
            julie
            Cheyenne, Wyoming
            I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8736 From: Jeremy Carter Date: 2/25/2005
            Subject: Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas
            Well, I can see some possible holes. You do know that Black Ruby Barbs are a different species than Tiger Barbs, right? Plus, Tiger Barbs can be nippy, especially to Gouramis. Speaking of which, Blue Gouramis grow to 6 inches and will also be semi-aggressive. If you're thinking cleaner fish how about a Bristelnoes Pleco, they only grow to 5 inches and eat algae their whole lives. Plus, you havge more room to add fish to your tank if you drop those Gouramis. I think this list would be much better for your tank:
             
            6 Black Ruby Barbs (Puntius nigrofasciatus)
            1 Bristlenose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.)
            2 Pearl Gouramis (More peaceful than Blues and only get 4 inches) (Trichogaster leeri)
            3 Swordtails or Platies (Xiphophorus helleri or maculatus, respectively)
             
            Please let me/us know what you finally decide to put in the tank. Good luck,
             
            Jeremy

            greywolfmm <lists@...> wrote:


            I just started a 29 gallon freshwater tank. While I wait for it to
            cycle, I've been thinking about the fish I want to put in it. I'm
            moving up for a 20 gallon community tank that I used to commit all the
            newbie mistakes we newbies make. With many lessons learned, I plan on
            doing this one right.

            So, here's what I'm thinking about doing. Please let me know if this
            won't work or if it's too many fish for the tank.

            6 tiger barbs (2 regular tiger, 2 green tiger, 2 black ruby)
            2 gourami (1 blue and 1 gold)
            1 "cleaner" type fish.

            I have read in many places that you need to keep barbs in schools of
            at least 6. I could be wrong, but isn't putting 6 fish in a tank all
            at the same time a bad thing to do?

            I would appreciate any input.

            Thanks,

            Kevin


            Do you Yahoo!?
            Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8737 From: Fish Gurl Date: 2/25/2005
            Subject: Re: NEWBIE log book programme
            On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:14:52 -0000, craig davison
            <craigy1012000@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hi all
            > Can anyone HELP?
            > Is there any FREE software or a programme i can use to make a log
            > book of my freshwater tank?.

            I've only found one program for Palm that will record and chart
            aquarium results. I find it much more handy to keep a journal,
            recording everything from water changes to test results, to addition
            and removal of fish. Also, if you keep a log of the fish you have,
            expected size etc and bring this with you when you fish shop..you've
            all your info right there. Very handy.

            Kelly



            --
            My Tank
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8738 From: cody adams Date: 2/25/2005
            Subject: help
            I am about to set up a 125 gal tank , right now I have two 55 gal
            tanks and 30 gal and two ten gal tanks. In my 55 gallon up stair I
            have 5 red devils , one butterikofi, a pair of flower horn cichlids,
            and a Florida gar. The butterikofi is the dominant fish and he is
            and he is about 6 or 7 inches, next is my male red devil he is about
            5 inches. my butterikofi ruled the tank and chases everybody but my
            male red devil is starting to fight back now that he is bigger. my
            flower horns , the is 4 and the female is about three inches. my
            Florida is about 10 inches and my four other red devils are from
            about 2 through 4 inches. In my other 55 I got a pair of green
            terror, a jewel cichlids , two dovii , a Texas and two jack Dempsey
            in this tank there really is not a dominant fish , It use two be a
            tie between the jewel and the male green terror. the biggest fish is
            one of the jack but he or she is a punk . in my thirty gallon I got a
            two piranhas the y are about three inches each. In one ten gallon I
            got two pink convicts which have already spawned but I do not know
            what happened to the eggs? In the other ten gall. i got one male
            black convict and three females. well my question is what is the best
            combo for the 125 gall, I was thinking the butterikofi, the Florida
            gar , the red devils or at least the big male and the next biggest
            which is a female , and the two doviis, the doviis being the smallest
            of all the fish, but the only other fish I wondered about where the
            piranha which I have read on a couple of sites being killed by red
            devils and the flower horns there other fish I have are timid and
            the convict have enough heart but are way to small . can any one help
            me ? also what fish will reign supreme in the 125 gal , my guess is
            the butterikofi but I am not sure the red devil is catching up and
            size and I heard of dovii being mean to, and so what is the most
            vicious fish I own can anyboy help me with this
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8739 From: paul helms Date: 2/25/2005
            Subject: Re: help
            generally the butter will rule the roost, but i have
            seen red devils empty many many tanks of fish. the
            terror and jewels would be fine with the butter, and
            the convicts would do great in there too. i
            persoanlly would not put the flower horns in the big
            tanks with the butter, and would get rid of the red
            devil. but that is just me.
            --- cody adams <cornbread_05@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            > I am about to set up a 125 gal tank , right now I
            > have two 55 gal
            > tanks and 30 gal and two ten gal tanks. In my 55
            > gallon up stair I
            > have 5 red devils , one butterikofi, a pair of
            > flower horn cichlids,
            > and a Florida gar. The butterikofi is the dominant
            > fish and he is
            > and he is about 6 or 7 inches, next is my male red
            > devil he is about
            > 5 inches. my butterikofi ruled the tank and chases
            > everybody but my
            > male red devil is starting to fight back now that he
            > is bigger. my
            > flower horns , the is 4 and the female is about
            > three inches. my
            > Florida is about 10 inches and my four other red
            > devils are from
            > about 2 through 4 inches. In my other 55 I got a
            > pair of green
            > terror, a jewel cichlids , two dovii , a Texas and
            > two jack Dempsey
            > in this tank there really is not a dominant fish ,
            > It use two be a
            > tie between the jewel and the male green terror. the
            > biggest fish is
            > one of the jack but he or she is a punk . in my
            > thirty gallon I got a
            > two piranhas the y are about three inches each. In
            > one ten gallon I
            > got two pink convicts which have already spawned but
            > I do not know
            > what happened to the eggs? In the other ten gall. i
            > got one male
            > black convict and three females. well my question is
            > what is the best
            > combo for the 125 gall, I was thinking the
            > butterikofi, the Florida
            > gar , the red devils or at least the big male and
            > the next biggest
            > which is a female , and the two doviis, the doviis
            > being the smallest
            > of all the fish, but the only other fish I wondered
            > about where the
            > piranha which I have read on a couple of sites being
            > killed by red
            > devils and the flower horns there other fish I have
            > are timid and
            > the convict have enough heart but are way to small .
            > can any one help
            > me ? also what fish will reign supreme in the 125
            > gal , my guess is
            > the butterikofi but I am not sure the red devil is
            > catching up and
            > size and I heard of dovii being mean to, and so what
            > is the most
            > vicious fish I own can anyboy help me with this
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8740 From: paul helms Date: 2/25/2005
            Subject: Re: NEWBIE log book programme
            use excel
            --- Fish Gurl <fishgoddess@...> wrote:

            > On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:14:52 -0000, craig davison
            > <craigy1012000@...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi all
            > > Can anyone HELP?
            > > Is there any FREE software or a programme i can
            > use to make a log
            > > book of my freshwater tank?.
            >
            > I've only found one program for Palm that will
            > record and chart
            > aquarium results. I find it much more handy to keep
            > a journal,
            > recording everything from water changes to test
            > results, to addition
            > and removal of fish. Also, if you keep a log of the
            > fish you have,
            > expected size etc and bring this with you when you
            > fish shop..you've
            > all your info right there. Very handy.
            >
            > Kelly
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > My Tank
            >




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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8741 From: greywolfmm Date: 2/25/2005
            Subject: Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas
            Thanks for the input. I like the blue gourami's and everything I
            have read said that they are compatible with tiger barbs. I have
            also seen several display tanks in fish stores that had gourami and
            tiger barbs in them. That made me think it was okay to put them
            together.

            Kevin

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeremy Carter <jcarter4490@y...>
            wrote:
            > Well, I can see some possible holes. You do know that Black Ruby
            Barbs are a different species than Tiger Barbs, right? Plus, Tiger
            Barbs can be nippy, especially to Gouramis. Speaking of which, Blue
            Gouramis grow to 6 inches and will also be semi-aggressive. If
            you're thinking cleaner fish how about a Bristelnoes Pleco, they
            only grow to 5 inches and eat algae their whole lives. Plus, you
            havge more room to add fish to your tank if you drop those Gouramis.
            I think this list would be much better for your tank:
            >
            > 6 Black Ruby Barbs (Puntius nigrofasciatus)
            > 1 Bristlenose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.)
            > 2 Pearl Gouramis (More peaceful than Blues and only get 4 inches)
            (Trichogaster leeri)
            > 3 Swordtails or Platies (Xiphophorus helleri or maculatus,
            respectively)
            >
            > Please let me/us know what you finally decide to put in the tank.
            Good luck,
            >
            > Jeremy
            >
            > greywolfmm <lists@w...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > I just started a 29 gallon freshwater tank. While I wait for it to
            > cycle, I've been thinking about the fish I want to put in it. I'm
            > moving up for a 20 gallon community tank that I used to commit all
            the
            > newbie mistakes we newbies make. With many lessons learned, I plan
            on
            > doing this one right.
            >
            > So, here's what I'm thinking about doing. Please let me know if
            this
            > won't work or if it's too many fish for the tank.
            >
            > 6 tiger barbs (2 regular tiger, 2 green tiger, 2 black ruby)
            > 2 gourami (1 blue and 1 gold)
            > 1 "cleaner" type fish.
            >
            > I have read in many places that you need to keep barbs in schools
            of
            > at least 6. I could be wrong, but isn't putting 6 fish in a tank
            all
            > at the same time a bad thing to do?
            >
            > I would appreciate any input.
            >
            > Thanks,
            >
            > Kevin
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8742 From: magmarron1 Date: 2/25/2005
            Subject: The Ben Doran Foundation for the Arts and Sciences
            Hello -

            I've started the Ben Doran Foundation for the Arts and Sciences in
            memory of my only child, Benny who was beat to death two blocks from
            my home, by two gang members who thought he was someone else, in
            St.Paul MN on March 31st 2003. I truly believe my Benny was murdered
            because of lack of parenting and sheer ignorance.
            My partner, Rome Hanson and I have formed this foundation to promote
            learning science and art in any form. www.bendoranfoundation.org
            Our senior high after school aquarium club is the first in the state
            of Minnesota. We've had tanks and fish donated
            Rome is a Master aquarist with 16 years in fresh and saltwater fish
            and corals.
            Our tank mates are all cichlids- discus,apistogrammas,vajetas,rams;
            aulonacaras.
            We have no saltwaters set up at this time.
            Fishkeeping has been my refuge through this horrible loss.
            Our long term goal is to breed for the state and local retailers,
            tank raised animals.
            We're having a tough time staying afloat and are applealing on a
            massive level for funding.
            Please feel free to go to the website www.bendoranfoundation.org to
            get the whole story. Fish are the most soothing pet for me, I like to
            call them water ballerinas.

            Thank you for this space,

            Sincerely,

            Maggie Doran
            margueritte@...
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8743 From: infomehlb Date: 2/25/2005
            Subject: Re: CO2 injection
            Thanks for the suggestion. I have heard about the jello method. I
            am thinking about going with an actual canister of CO2 but am not
            sure of the needed components. Can anyone commment?

            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amalthea <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
            > i've been doing it for several weeks now using the jello method.
            all
            > that's needed is tubing, silicone, a 2 liter soda bottle (or other
            > similar, sealable container), jello, yeast and water. you can find
            > instructions here:
            > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?
            t=9916&highlight=jello
            > there are pictures of my tank in the photo section if you want to
            see
            > my results so far.
            > amalthea
            > Bored? Never Fear!
            > http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
            > On Feb 24, 2005, at 5:50 PM, infomehlb wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > I have been looking into CO2 injection for my future plans of
            > > introducing real plants and would like to know what components
            are
            > > recommended.  I have done some reading on the subject so I
            understand
            > > the process/concept. 
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8744 From: Amalthea Date: 2/25/2005
            Subject: Re: CO2 injection
            when i did the research, i found that the co2 canisters tended to be
            more expensive and left the fish more in danger of co2 poisoning. i
            have a 55 gallon with the jello and there's really no way to od on co2
            that way, but i have heard from people who are willing to invest the
            time and money into a full canister system and who get great results.
            that message board i sent you to for the jello method has tons of
            information and resources on all types on injection systems.
            amalthea
            http://www.puppetterrors.com
            Don't be Afraid to Scream....
            On Feb 25, 2005, at 2:31 PM, infomehlb wrote:

            >
            > Thanks for the suggestion.  I have heard about the jello method.  I
            > am thinking about going with an actual canister of CO2 but am not
            > sure of the needed components.  Can anyone commment?
            >
            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amalthea <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
            > > i've been doing it for several weeks now using the jello method.
            > all
            > > that's needed is tubing, silicone, a 2 liter soda bottle (or other
            > > similar, sealable container), jello, yeast and water. you can find
            > > instructions here:
            > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?
            > t=9916&highlight=jello
            > > there are pictures of my tank in the photo section if you want to
            > see
            > > my results so far.
            > > amalthea
            > > Bored? Never Fear!
            > > http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
            > > On Feb 24, 2005, at 5:50 PM, infomehlb wrote:
            > >
            > > >
            > > >  I have been looking into CO2 injection for my future plans of
            > > >  introducing real plants and would like to know what components
            > are
            > > >  recommended.  I have done some reading on the subject so I
            > understand
            > > >  the process/concept. 
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8745 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 2/25/2005
            Subject: Fwd: [AquaticLife] help
            Attachments :
              Seems you don't need too much help knowing which are your most aggressive Cichlids.  As such, I can see several different combinations of fish, but Paul's suggestion seems to be one of the best.  Butters are notoriously one of the most aggressive Cichlids, but you don't say how large your Dovii are.  Your Dovii will eventually (sooner than later) outgrow your Butter if given the chance, as they grow fast.  These guys take a back seat to no one!   If one of these is a male, he will no doubt in time be the dominant fish in the tank as they do get large (and quite aggressive).  I would leave the Convicts out of that tank.  Ray
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8746 From: Jeremy Carter Date: 2/25/2005
              Subject: Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas
              Upon further review, I think you could do it . It might be a little risky though. I would consider then dropping the Platies or Swords and upping the Tigers to about 8-9. They might be less inclined to nipo the Blues that way. So you could have this:
               
              9 Tiger Barbs
              2 Blue Gouramis (Be sure they are both female)
              1 Bristlenose Pleco
               
              By the way, I'm sorry if I seem pushy or bossy or anything. I love thinking about new tanks and kind of get obsessed. Good luck,
               
              Jeremy

              greywolfmm <lists@...> wrote:

              Thanks for the input.  I like the blue gourami's and everything I
              have read said that they are compatible with tiger barbs.  I have
              also seen several display tanks in fish stores that had gourami and
              tiger barbs in them.  That made me think it was okay to put them
              together.

              Kevin

              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeremy Carter <jcarter4490@y...>
              wrote:
              > Well, I can see some possible holes. You do know that Black Ruby
              Barbs are a different species than Tiger Barbs, right? Plus, Tiger
              Barbs can be nippy, especially to Gouramis. Speaking of which, Blue
              Gouramis grow to 6 inches and will also be semi-aggressive. If
              you're thinking cleaner fish how about a Bristelnoes Pleco, they
              only grow to 5 inches and eat algae their whole lives. Plus, you
              havge more room to add fish to your tank if you drop those Gouramis.
              I think this list would be much better for your tank:

              > 6 Black Ruby Barbs (Puntius nigrofasciatus)
              > 1 Bristlenose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.)
              > 2 Pearl Gouramis (More peaceful than Blues and only get 4 inches)
              (Trichogaster leeri)
              > 3 Swordtails or Platies (Xiphophorus helleri or maculatus,
              respectively)

              > Please let me/us know what you finally decide to put in the tank.
              Good luck,

              > Jeremy
              >
              > greywolfmm <lists@w...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > I just started a 29 gallon freshwater tank. While I wait for it to
              > cycle, I've been thinking about the fish I want to put in it. I'm
              > moving up for a 20 gallon community tank that I used to commit all
              the
              > newbie mistakes we newbies make. With many lessons learned, I plan
              on
              > doing this one right.
              >
              > So, here's what I'm thinking about doing. Please let me know if
              this
              > won't work or if it's too many fish for the tank.
              >
              > 6 tiger barbs (2 regular tiger, 2 green tiger, 2 black ruby)
              > 2 gourami (1 blue and 1 gold)
              > 1 "cleaner" type fish.
              >
              > I have read in many places that you need to keep barbs in schools
              of
              > at least 6. I could be wrong, but isn't putting 6 fish in a tank
              all
              > at the same time a bad thing to do?
              >
              > I would appreciate any input.
              >
              > Thanks,
              >
              > Kevin
              >            
              > ---------------------------------
              > Do you Yahoo!?
              >  Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.


              Do you Yahoo!?
              Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8747 From: beckeehurdle Date: 2/25/2005
              Subject: I'm new!
              Hi Everyone!!

              My name is Beckee, I am 25 years old and I live just outside Malaga
              in Southern Spain although I was born in England and lived there
              until 2 years ago. I currently own a dog, 2 cats, 2 cockatiels, 7
              mice and a lovely new tank of fish!!! Many years ago I had a smaller
              tank with just mollies and a few neon tetras. This new aquarium was
              a Christmas present that I have been waiting for since I moved
              here!! We have had great fun decorating the tank and setting up the
              heating, filters etc and yesterday we finally brought the first
              fish! I now have 12 neon tetras, 2 mollies, 2 male guppies, 2
              penguin tetras?? 2 kissing fish and 2 gold mollie-like!! Excuse my
              lack of knowledge of some of the names but they are the litural
              Spanish translation of fish I don't know the name of in English! I
              am hoping to browse the net and find some pictures to find out!!

              I am hoping to add a few more to the tank over the following months
              (it is 108 litres, not sure what that is in gallons?) I would just
              like to know, is it possible to tell the sex of the mollies and the
              neons? My mollies I had back in England breed and I could tell the
              male from his behaviour but I cannot tell with the 2 I have. I am
              also curious that one of my neons may be pregnant as it has a
              considerable bulge underneath compared to the others?? Would this be
              a correct assumption and should I seperate this fish until the
              babies are born?

              Excuse me if these are silly questions! I am off to find some
              helpful websites right now but I love these chat groups and would
              like to learn more!!

              Thankyou in advance!!

              Beckee
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8748 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/25/2005
              Subject: Re: My Water Test Results
              My tap water is 0 for nitrites and nitrates.  What should I do, if anything?
               
              -------------- Original message --------------

              Angela,

              Feeding every other day and nitrates going up from 5 to 40 in 4 days is not possible IMO. How sure are you that your original nitrates were 5?

               

              Can you test your tap water for nitrates?

               

              Nim

               

               


              From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
              Sent: 25 February 2005 12:35
              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [AquaticLife] My Water Test Results

               


              This morning I tested my water, since we've added several fish this
              week. 

              Ammonia is still 0
              Nitrites are still 0
              Nitrates are at 40, up from 5 on Monday

              Is this a concern?  I'm not as knowledgeable about nitrates as I am
              about the nitrite and ammonia issues.  Do I need to do anything -
              water change?  I have increased the feedings to about every other
              day, should I increase to every day for flakes and every two days
              for pellets?

              Thanks for your help. 

              In the tank:

              4 zebra danios
              3 flame tetras
              3 cory catfish
              2 violet goby
              2 African dwarf frogs
              1 large snail

              Angela





              please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks






              please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8749 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/25/2005
              Subject: Re: My Water Test Results

              That’s very good tap water indeed. Let the tank stabilize for another 3-4 days and then do a 20% water change. Start feeding regularly after that and monitor ammonia and nitrite. If they remain zero, you can resume weekly 20% water changes J

               

              Nim

               

               


              From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
              Sent: 25 February 2005 23:54
              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Water Test Results

               

              My tap water is 0 for nitrites and nitrates.  What should I do, if anything?

               

              -------------- Original message --------------

              Angela,

              Feeding every other day and nitrates going up from 5 to 40 in 4 days is not possible IMO. How sure are you that your original nitrates were 5?

               

              Can you test your tap water for nitrates?

               

              Nim

               

               


              From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
              Sent: 25 February 2005 12:35
              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [AquaticLife] My Water Test Results

               


              This morning I tested my water, since we've added several fish this
              week. 

              Ammonia is still 0
              Nitrites are still 0
              Nitrates are at 40, up from 5 on Monday

              Is this a concern?  I'm not as knowledgeable about nitrates as I am
              about the nitrite and ammonia issues.  Do I need to do anything -
              water change?  I have increased the feedings to about every other
              day, should I increase to every day for flakes and every two days
              for pellets?

              Thanks for your help. 

              In the tank:

              4 zebra danios
              3 flame tetras
              3 cory catfish
              2 violet goby
              2 African dwarf frogs
              1 large snail

              Angela





              please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





              please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




              please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8750 From: greywolfmm Date: 2/25/2005
              Subject: Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas
              That's close to what I want to do, but when I add up the fish inches
              of 9 barbs, 2 gouramis, and a pleco, doesn't that go over the limit
              for a 29 gallon tank?


              Kevin

              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeremy Carter <jcarter4490@y...>
              wrote:
              > Upon further review, I think you could do it . It might be a little
              risky though. I would consider then dropping the Platies or Swords and
              upping the Tigers to about 8-9. They might be less inclined to nipo
              the Blues that way. So you could have this:
              >
              > 9 Tiger Barbs
              > 2 Blue Gouramis (Be sure they are both female)
              > 1 Bristlenose Pleco
              >
              > By the way, I'm sorry if I seem pushy or bossy or anything. I love
              thinking about new tanks and kind of get obsessed. Good luck,
              >
              > Jeremy
              >
              > greywolfmm <lists@w...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks for the input. I like the blue gourami's and everything I
              > have read said that they are compatible with tiger barbs. I have
              > also seen several display tanks in fish stores that had gourami and
              > tiger barbs in them. That made me think it was okay to put them
              > together.
              >
              > Kevin
              >
              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeremy Carter <jcarter4490@y...>
              > wrote:
              > > Well, I can see some possible holes. You do know that Black Ruby
              > Barbs are a different species than Tiger Barbs, right? Plus, Tiger
              > Barbs can be nippy, especially to Gouramis. Speaking of which, Blue
              > Gouramis grow to 6 inches and will also be semi-aggressive. If
              > you're thinking cleaner fish how about a Bristelnoes Pleco, they
              > only grow to 5 inches and eat algae their whole lives. Plus, you
              > havge more room to add fish to your tank if you drop those Gouramis.
              > I think this list would be much better for your tank:
              > >
              > > 6 Black Ruby Barbs (Puntius nigrofasciatus)
              > > 1 Bristlenose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.)
              > > 2 Pearl Gouramis (More peaceful than Blues and only get 4 inches)
              > (Trichogaster leeri)
              > > 3 Swordtails or Platies (Xiphophorus helleri or maculatus,
              > respectively)
              > >
              > > Please let me/us know what you finally decide to put in the tank.
              > Good luck,
              > >
              > > Jeremy
              > >
              > > greywolfmm <lists@w...> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > I just started a 29 gallon freshwater tank. While I wait for it to
              > > cycle, I've been thinking about the fish I want to put in it. I'm
              > > moving up for a 20 gallon community tank that I used to commit all
              > the
              > > newbie mistakes we newbies make. With many lessons learned, I plan
              > on
              > > doing this one right.
              > >
              > > So, here's what I'm thinking about doing. Please let me know if
              > this
              > > won't work or if it's too many fish for the tank.
              > >
              > > 6 tiger barbs (2 regular tiger, 2 green tiger, 2 black ruby)
              > > 2 gourami (1 blue and 1 gold)
              > > 1 "cleaner" type fish.
              > >
              > > I have read in many places that you need to keep barbs in schools
              > of
              > > at least 6. I could be wrong, but isn't putting 6 fish in a tank
              > all
              > > at the same time a bad thing to do?
              > >
              > > I would appreciate any input.
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > >
              > > Kevin
              > >
              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Do you Yahoo!?
              > > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Do you Yahoo!?
              > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8751 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/25/2005
              Subject: Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas

              The rule can be relaxed depending on your maintenance, filter system, live plants and type of fish.

               

              9 barbs, 2 gouramis and a pleco is not over stocked in a 29 gallon tank as long as you do weekly 20% water changes and have a good filter. However, if you were to reduce your water changes to once in 3 weeks and don’t have a powerful filter, the tank could be considered a bit over stocked.

               

              I have about 28 mbunas (Malawi cichlids, 2”-3”) in a 29 gallon tank with a canister filter and an internal power filter coupled with weekly 50% water changes and except for the crowd in there (cannot help it), water parameters do not tell me that I am overstocked.

               

              Nim

               

               


              From: greywolfmm [mailto:lists@...]
              Sent: 25 February 2005 23:28
              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas

               


              That's close to what I want to do, but when I add up the fish inches
              of 9 barbs, 2 gouramis, and a pleco, doesn't that go over the limit
              for a 29 gallon tank?


              Kevin

              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , Jeremy Carter <jcarter4490@y...>
              wrote:
              > Upon further review, I think you could do it . It might be a little
              risky though. I would consider then dropping the Platies or Swords and
              upping the Tigers to about 8-9. They might be less inclined to nipo
              the Blues that way. So you could have this:

              > 9 Tiger Barbs
              > 2 Blue Gouramis (Be sure they are both female)
              > 1 Bristlenose Pleco

              > By the way, I'm sorry if I seem pushy or bossy or anything. I love
              thinking about new tanks and kind of get obsessed. Good luck,

              > Jeremy
              >
              > greywolfmm <lists@w...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks for the input.  I like the blue gourami's and everything I
              > have read said that they are compatible with tiger barbs.  I have
              > also seen several display tanks in fish stores that had gourami and
              > tiger barbs in them.  That made me think it was okay to put them
              > together.
              >
              > Kevin
              >
              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , Jeremy Carter <jcarter4490@y...>
              > wrote:
              > > Well, I can see some possible holes. You do know that Black Ruby
              > Barbs are a different species than Tiger Barbs, right? Plus, Tiger
              > Barbs can be nippy, especially to Gouramis. Speaking of which, Blue
              > Gouramis grow to 6 inches and will also be semi-aggressive. If
              > you're thinking cleaner fish how about a Bristelnoes Pleco, they
              > only grow to 5 inches and eat algae their whole lives. Plus, you
              > havge more room to add fish to your tank if you drop those Gouramis.
              > I think this list would be much better for your tank:
              > > 
              > > 6 Black Ruby Barbs (Puntius nigrofasciatus)
              > > 1 Bristlenose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.)
              > > 2 Pearl Gouramis (More peaceful than Blues and only get 4 inches)
              > (Trichogaster leeri)
              > > 3 Swordtails or Platies (Xiphophorus helleri or maculatus,
              > respectively)
              > > 
              > > Please let me/us know what you finally decide to put in the tank.
              > Good luck,
              > > 
              > > Jeremy
              > >
              > > greywolfmm <lists@w...> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > I just started a 29 gallon freshwater tank. While I wait for it to
              > > cycle, I've been thinking about the fish I want to put in it. I'm
              > > moving up for a 20 gallon community tank that I used to commit all
              > the
              > > newbie mistakes we newbies make. With many lessons learned, I plan
              > on
              > > doing this one right.
              > >
              > > So, here's what I'm thinking about doing. Please let me know if
              > this
              > > won't work or if it's too many fish for the tank.
              > >
              > > 6 tiger barbs (2 regular tiger, 2 green tiger, 2 black ruby)
              > > 2 gourami (1 blue and 1 gold)
              > > 1 "cleaner" type fish.
              > >
              > > I have read in many places that you need to keep barbs in schools
              > of
              > > at least 6. I could be wrong, but isn't putting 6 fish in a tank
              > all
              > > at the same time a bad thing to do?
              > >
              > > I would appreciate any input.
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > >
              > > Kevin
              >

              >            

              > > ---------------------------------
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              >
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              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8752 From: worship_hedvvwig Date: 2/25/2005
              Subject: who's eggs?
              i just discovered a cluster of eggs in between some rocks in my
              cichlid tank.... only, i dont know who they belong to. there are about
              7 cichlids and only 1 pair of the breed or whatever... they have bred
              once in the past- about a month ago- but their fry didnt last very long.

              anywayy, today- i found the eggs. at least i think they are eggs. they
              are tight in-between some rocks- and it really doesn't look like the 4
              inched cichlids can really fit into the little crevice...and the area
              where they were found is far from the area where the cichlid pair have
              sort of claimed their own. so.... who's could they be? i have a pair
              of plecostomous too- but.... the cluster cant be theirs can it? it
              does look like they can fit- and one of them was near the cluster when
              i found it- but that may be irrelevant.

              the cluster is a brownish color- looks spongy- with hundreds of
              little round white things inside and on it... it could just be some
              settled debris- but it sure wasn't there a couple days ago...
              will cichlids, or just any fish still lay eggs even if a partner isn't
              present?
              anyone have any idea who's they could be? the plecos? the pair of
              cichlids? or just some lonely female thinking there might be a guy to
              fertilize them??
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8753 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/25/2005
              Subject: Re: Zebra Danias & Bullying
              Nope never got any babies but I think I remember hearing that they eat
              there eggs. And maybe that was why, or they died because the tank was
              in it's cycling mode. keep us updated on how there acting.
              >
              > Thanks, I'll check with my friend at the local aquariam center and
              > see if she confirms the "mating" theory. Geez, did you get more
              > Dania's...? Ie. did they hatch...?
              >
              > E
              >
              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mommy2acdhsurvivor"
              > <CK147@H...> wrote:
              > >
              > > I have some other types of danios and the one that's the biggest is
              > > always chasing everyone.... when I first got them while chasing
              > each
              > > other I noticed eggs floating to the bottom of the tank, so they
              > might
              > > be mating. Although I think mine is a bully too compared to the
              > rest
              > > of my fish, but she's never hurt anybody.
              > > >
              > > > I put 4 zebra danias in my tank this week and I'm noticing that
              > one
              > > > of them seems to be bullying the other 3. This fish swims after
              > any
              > > > of the other 3 in what I feel is an aggressive manner.
              > > >
              > > > Is this normal behavior for this type of fish or is it something
              > > > other than bullying...? Should I be concerned about the stress
              > on
              > > > the other 3 danias?
              > > >
              > > > The bully is also the biggest of the four.
              > > >
              > > > Thanks for any advice you might have,
              > > > Elizabeth
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8754 From: paul helms Date: 2/25/2005
              Subject: Re: who's eggs?
              MANY CICHLIDS CAN CROSS BREED, THEY COULD BE THE
              PAIRS. MOST LIKELY NOT THE PLECOS, THEY WERE PROBABLY
              TRYING TO EAT THE EGGS

              --- worship_hedvvwig <worship_hedvvwig@...>
              wrote:

              >
              > i just discovered a cluster of eggs in between some
              > rocks in my
              > cichlid tank.... only, i dont know who they belong
              > to. there are about
              > 7 cichlids and only 1 pair of the breed or
              > whatever... they have bred
              > once in the past- about a month ago- but their fry
              > didnt last very long.
              >
              > anywayy, today- i found the eggs. at least i think
              > they are eggs. they
              > are tight in-between some rocks- and it really
              > doesn't look like the 4
              > inched cichlids can really fit into the little
              > crevice...and the area
              > where they were found is far from the area where the
              > cichlid pair have
              > sort of claimed their own. so.... who's could they
              > be? i have a pair
              > of plecostomous too- but.... the cluster cant be
              > theirs can it? it
              > does look like they can fit- and one of them was
              > near the cluster when
              > i found it- but that may be irrelevant.
              >
              > the cluster is a brownish color- looks spongy- with
              > hundreds of
              > little round white things inside and on it... it
              > could just be some
              > settled debris- but it sure wasn't there a couple
              > days ago...
              > will cichlids, or just any fish still lay eggs even
              > if a partner isn't
              > present?
              > anyone have any idea who's they could be? the
              > plecos? the pair of
              > cichlids? or just some lonely female thinking there
              > might be a guy to
              > fertilize them??
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >




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              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8755 From: Aranel Date: 2/25/2005
              Subject: Homemade substrate?
              Hello everyone. I have an empty ten gallon aquarium that I'm going to be
              setting up soon from scratch and I'd like for it to be a planted tank. I
              haven't messed with live plants very much, so any advice would be very
              much appreciated.

              I've been trying to find out how to do a homemade substrate, since I
              can't afford to spend 40$ at Petsmart for their pre-made stuff. I
              haven't found much, but I did read that you could put a mixture of peat
              and potting soil under your gravel for the roots to grow into. Of course
              I'd want to make sure that these are safe for the fish before I did
              anything like that. Does anyone have any suggestions? Have any of you
              made your own substrates, and if you did, what did you use?

              Like I said, any help would be great. Thanks!

              -Aranel
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8756 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/26/2005
              Subject: Re: Homemade substrate?

              I had an experiment on this

              http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/plants/Mathur_Substrate.html

               

              This is what the tank looked just after setting it up

              http://www.nimmat.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10003/NewPics/normal_newlook03.jpg

              and this is how it looked 4 months later

              http://www.nimmat.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10003/Latest/normal_latest016.jpg

               

              Nim

               

               


              From: Aranel [mailto:aranel@...]
              Sent: 26 February 2005 07:48
              To: aquarium_club@yahoogroups.com; AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ; FishesCorner
              Subject: [AquaticLife] Homemade substrate?

               

              Hello everyone. I have an empty ten gallon aquarium that I'm going to be
              setting up soon from scratch and I'd like for it to be a planted tank. I
              haven't messed with live plants very much, so any advice would be very
              much appreciated.

              I've been trying to find out how to do a homemade substrate, since I
              can't afford to spend 40$ at Petsmart for their pre-made stuff. I
              haven't found much, but I did read that you could put a mixture of peat
              and potting soil under your gravel for the roots to grow into. Of course
              I'd want to make sure that these are safe for the fish before I did
              anything like that. Does anyone have any suggestions? Have any of you
              made your own substrates, and if you did, what did you use?

              Like I said, any help would be great. Thanks!

              -Aranel


              please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8757 From: Loie Date: 2/26/2005
              Subject: Re: Homemade substrate?
              Very nice Nim....Lois
              Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

              I had an experiment on this

              http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/plants/Mathur_Substrate.html

               

              This is what the tank looked just after setting it up

              http://www.nimmat.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10003/NewPics/normal_newlook03.jpg

              and this is how it looked 4 months later

              http://www.nimmat.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10003/Latest/normal_latest016.jpg

               

              Nim

               

               


              From: Aranel [mailto:aranel@...]
              Sent: 26 February 2005 07:48
              To: aquarium_club@yahoogroups.com; AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ; FishesCorner
              Subject: [AquaticLife] Homemade substrate?

               

              Hello everyone. I have an empty ten gallon aquarium that I'm going to be
              setting up soon from scratch and I'd like for it to be a planted tank. I
              haven't messed with live plants very much, so any advice would be very
              much appreciated.

              I've been trying to find out how to do a homemade substrate, since I
              can't afford to spend 40$ at Petsmart for their pre-made stuff. I
              haven't found much, but I did read that you could put a mixture of peat
              and potting soil under your gravel for the roots to grow into. Of course
              I'd want to make sure that these are safe for the fish before I did
              anything like that. Does anyone have any suggestions? Have any of you
              made your own substrates, and if you did, what did you use?

              Like I said, any help would be great. Thanks!

              -Aranel


              please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks






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              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8758 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 2/26/2005
              Subject: Nitrates
              I know nitites and ammonia are bad.  I know nitrates are good to a point.  What's that point?  What water test results am I aiming for?  I lost a peppered cory last night, with 0 ammonia and nitrites and 40 nitrate.  The other fish look fine.  I know fish can die for no apparent reason, but I want to make sure I don't lose any fish by my fault.  When I change water, do I vacuum the gravel?
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8759 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/26/2005
              Subject: Re: Nitrates

              Hi Angela,

               

              Nitrates are good to a point of 20ppm as that prevents the dreaded bluegreen algae from coming and does not starve your live plants for nutrition. It can be fine below that also but then the effect will be visible on the plants. For fish, 0 Nitrates is most ideal but not for plants.

               

              General tropical fish (excluding things like discus, some south American dwarf cichlids, rays, overly sensitive fish etc) can easily tolerate a nitrate spell of 60 or even more as long as they are healthy and have a good strong immune system and have been settle in the tank for a few months. Above 80ppm, it can start to cause problems for most of these.

               

              Since your tank is fairly new and finished cycle a couple of weeks ago, I would not recommend performing a gravel vac this time as gravel is also a large area for bacteria to live in but it takes a lot of effort to separate the bacteria from it. You can vacume the gravel next time if things remain normal after this water change (scheduled for next weekend).

               

              If Nitrates keep rising at a fast rate, then this could be a thing to worry as you are not feeding much and there should be a lot of waste in the tank that must be creating them. Dead fish? Dying plant matter? Any terrestrial plants kept in the aquarium (shops do sell them), lot of wasted food, choked filter etc. are some of the reasons other then over feeding and over stocking that creates an excessive rise in nitrates.

               

              Nim

               

               


              From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
              Sent: 26 February 2005 11:47
              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrates

               

              I know nitites and ammonia are bad.  I know nitrates are good to a point.  What's that point?  What water test results am I aiming for?  I lost a peppered cory last night, with 0 ammonia and nitrites and 40 nitrate.  The other fish look fine.  I know fish can die for no apparent reason, but I want to make sure I don't lose any fish by my fault.  When I change water, do I vacuum the gravel?



              please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8760 From: Jeremy Carter Date: 2/26/2005
              Subject: Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas
              Huh, thats just what I was going to tell him. If you're especially worried about nitrates, having live plants can help. Also, having house plants with roots in the water and draping leaves over the tank, are great nitrate suckers. Philodendrons work best or others in the family. Good luck,
               
              Jeremy

              Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

              The rule can be relaxed depending on your maintenance, filter system, live plants and type of fish.

               

              9 barbs, 2 gouramis and a pleco is not over stocked in a 29 gallon tank as long as you do weekly 20% water changes and have a good filter. However, if you were to reduce your water changes to once in 3 weeks and don�t have a powerful filter, the tank could be considered a bit over stocked.

               

              I have about 28 mbunas (Malawi cichlids, 2�-3�) in a 29 gallon tank with a canister filter and an internal power filter coupled with weekly 50% water changes and except for the crowd in there (cannot help it), water parameters do not tell me that I am overstocked.

               

              Nim

               

               


              From: greywolfmm [mailto:lists@...]
              Sent: 25 February 2005 23:28
              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas

               


              That's close to what I want to do, but when I add up the fish inches
              of 9 barbs, 2 gouramis, and a pleco, doesn't that go over the limit
              for a 29 gallon tank?


              Kevin

              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , Jeremy Carter <jcarter4490@y...>
              wrote:
              > Upon further review, I think you could do it . It might be a little
              risky though. I would consider then dropping the Platies or Swords and
              upping the Tigers to about 8-9. They might be less inclined to nipo
              the Blues that way. So you could have this:

              > 9 Tiger Barbs
              > 2 Blue Gouramis (Be sure they are both female)
              > 1 Bristlenose Pleco

              > By the way, I'm sorry if I seem pushy or bossy or anything. I love
              thinking about new tanks and kind of get obsessed. Good luck,

              > Jeremy
              >
              > greywolfmm <lists@w...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks for the input.  I like the blue gourami's and everything I
              > have read said that they are compatible with tiger barbs.  I have
              > also seen several display tanks in fish stores that had gourami and
              > tiger barbs in them.  That made me think it was okay to put them
              > together.
              >
              > Kevin
              >
              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , Jeremy Carter <jcarter4490@y...>
              > wrote:
              > > Well, I can see some possible holes. You do know that Black Ruby
              > Barbs are a different species than Tiger Barbs, right? Plus, Tiger
              > Barbs can be nippy, especially to Gouramis. Speaking of which, Blue
              > Gouramis grow to 6 inches and will also be semi-aggressive. If
              > you're thinking cleaner fish how about a Bristelnoes Pleco, they
              > only grow to 5 inches and eat algae their whole lives. Plus, you
              > havge more room to add fish to your tank if you drop those Gouramis.
              > I think this list would be much better for your tank:
              > > 
              > > 6 Black Ruby Barbs (Puntius nigrofasciatus)
              > > 1 Bristlenose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.)
              > > 2 Pearl Gouramis (More peaceful than Blues and only get 4 inches)
              > (Trichogaster leeri)
              > > 3 Swordtails or Platies (Xiphophorus helleri or maculatus,
              > respectively)
              > > 
              > > Please let me/us know what you finally decide to put in the tank.
              > Good luck,
              > > 
              > > Jeremy
              > >
              > > greywolfmm <lists@w...> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > I just started a 29 gallon freshwater tank. While I wait for it to
              > > cycle, I've been thinking about the fish I want to put in it. I'm
              > > moving up for a 20 gallon community tank that I used to commit all
              > the
              > > newbie mistakes we newbies make. With many lessons learned, I plan
              > on
              > > doing this one right.
              > >
              > > So, here's what I'm thinking about doing. Please let me know if
              > this
              > > won't work or if it's too many fish for the tank.
              > >
              > > 6 tiger barbs (2 regular tiger, 2 green tiger, 2 black ruby)
              > > 2 gourami (1 blue and 1 gold)
              > > 1 "cleaner" type fish.
              > >
              > > I have read in many places that you need to keep barbs in schools
              > of
              > > at least 6. I could be wrong, but isn't putting 6 fish in a tank
              > all
              > > at the same time a bad thing to do?
              > >
              > > I would appreciate any input.
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > >
              > > Kevin
              > >            
              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Do you Yahoo!?
              > >  Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
              >
              >            
              > ---------------------------------
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              >  Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.





              please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks






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              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8761 From: Donna Ransome Date: 2/26/2005
              Subject: 29 gallon mbuna tank

              Nim, do you have a picture of the 29 gallon mbuna tank?  I’d love to set one up some day (not this year).  Are live plants out of the question with these cichlids?  I know you need lots of rocks and caves/hiding places.

               


              From: Nimish Mathur [mailto:nimmat4@...]
              Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 8:21 PM
              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas

               

              The rule can be relaxed depending on your maintenance, filter system, live plants and type of fish.

               

              9 barbs, 2 gouramis and a pleco is not over stocked in a 29 gallon tank as long as you do weekly 20% water changes and have a good filter. However, if you were to reduce your water changes to once in 3 weeks and don’t have a powerful filter, the tank could be considered a bit over stocked.

               

              I have about 28 mbunas (Malawi cichlids, 2”-3”) in a 29 gallon tank with a canister filter and an internal power filter coupled with weekly 50% water changes and except for the crowd in there (cannot help it), water parameters do not tell me that I am overstocked.

               

              Nim

               

               


              From: greywolfmm [mailto:lists@...]
              Sent: 25 February 2005 23:28
              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas

               


              That's close to what I want to do, but when I add up the fish inches
              of 9 barbs, 2 gouramis, and a pleco, doesn't that go over the limit
              for a 29 gallon tank?


              Kevin

              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , Jeremy Carter <jcarter4490@y...>
              wrote:
              > Upon further review, I think you could do it . It might be a little
              risky though. I would consider then dropping the Platies or Swords and
              upping the Tigers to about 8-9. They might be less inclined to nipo
              the Blues that way. So you could have this:

              > 9 Tiger Barbs
              > 2 Blue Gouramis (Be sure they are both female)
              > 1 Bristlenose Pleco

              > By the way, I'm sorry if I seem pushy or bossy or anything. I love
              thinking about new tanks and kind of get obsessed. Good luck,

              > Jeremy
              >
              > greywolfmm <lists@w...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks for the input.  I like the blue gourami's and everything I
              > have read said that they are compatible with tiger barbs.  I have
              > also seen several display tanks in fish stores that had gourami and
              > tiger barbs in them.  That made me think it was okay to put them
              > together.
              >
              > Kevin
              >
              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , Jeremy Carter <jcarter4490@y...>
              > wrote:
              > > Well, I can see some possible holes. You do know that Black Ruby
              > Barbs are a different species than Tiger Barbs, right? Plus, Tiger
              > Barbs can be nippy, especially to Gouramis. Speaking of which, Blue
              > Gouramis grow to 6 inches and will also be semi-aggressive. If
              > you're thinking cleaner fish how about a Bristelnoes Pleco, they
              > only grow to 5 inches and eat algae their whole lives. Plus, you
              > havge more room to add fish to your tank if you drop those Gouramis.
              > I think this list would be much better for your tank:
              > > 
              > > 6 Black Ruby Barbs (Puntius nigrofasciatus)
              > > 1 Bristlenose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.)
              > > 2 Pearl Gouramis (More peaceful than Blues and only get 4 inches)
              > (Trichogaster leeri)
              > > 3 Swordtails or Platies (Xiphophorus helleri or maculatus,
              > respectively)
              > > 
              > > Please let me/us know what you finally decide to put in the tank.
              > Good luck,
              > > 
              > > Jeremy
              > >
              > > greywolfmm <lists@w...> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > I just started a 29 gallon freshwater tank. While I wait for it to
              > > cycle, I've been thinking about the fish I want to put in it. I'm
              > > moving up for a 20 gallon community tank that I used to commit all
              > the
              > > newbie mistakes we newbies make. With many lessons learned, I plan
              > on
              > > doing this one right.
              > >
              > > So, here's what I'm thinking about doing. Please let me know if
              > this
              > > won't work or if it's too many fish for the tank.
              > >
              > > 6 tiger barbs (2 regular tiger, 2 green tiger, 2 black ruby)
              > > 2 gourami (1 blue and 1 gold)
              > > 1 "cleaner" type fish.
              > >
              > > I have read in many places that you need to keep barbs in schools
              > of
              > > at least 6. I could be wrong, but isn't putting 6 fish in a tank
              > all
              > > at the same time a bad thing to do?
              > >
              > > I would appreciate any input.
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > >
              > > Kevin
              >

              >            

              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Do you Yahoo!?
              > >  Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
              >
              >            
              > ---------------------------------
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              please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





              please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8762 From: ben olds Date: 2/26/2005
              Subject: Re: 29 gallon mbuna tank
              most mbuna's are vege eaters and plants are dessert. My tanks have no plants except when I add them so that the fish have something to chew on.


              Have a great day!  Ben... 


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              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8763 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/26/2005
              Subject: Re: 29 gallon mbuna tank
              Plastic plants look good and the Mbuna don't eat them...
              just my 2cents

              rob
              Indiana
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8764 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/26/2005
              Subject: Re: 29 gallon mbuna tank

              Hi Donna,

               

              This is still in progress and I will get some good pics soon.

               

              It presently house about 6 labidochromis caeruleus, 3 synodontis niggriventris, 5 labido hongi, 6 pseudotropheus elongates mpanga,

               

              It initially had 3 melanochromis maingano, 6 melanochromis auratus. Had to give away the melanochromis as they were too aggressive for the others. I am getting some pseudotropheus demasonni and pseudo easthrae red in replacement. Oh, it also has a large RTB shark and a freaked out platy that chases the labidochromis :-s and cannot be kept in a community tank and also a golden nugget pleco and a Siamese algae eater. No one is bothering the SAE so I keep him to control a bit of black brush algae.

               

              The caving in the tank is good enough to hide almost all the fish and hence has been working very well. I specifically chose ocean rocks with a lot of holes and stacked them accordingly.

               

              This tank is a Juwel reckord 96, with the Juwel filter removed and HOT filter and eheim 2217 canister on this.

               

              HOT is not visible as it is on a side and intake covered by vallis.

               

              Nim

               


              From: Donna Ransome [mailto:djransome@...]
              Sent: 26 February 2005 15:54
              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [AquaticLife] 29 gallon mbuna tank

               

              Nim, do you have a picture of the 29 gallon mbuna tank?  I’d love to set one up some day (not this year).  Are live plants out of the question with these cichlids?  I know you need lots of rocks and caves/hiding places.

               


              From: Nimish Mathur [mailto: nimmat4@... ]
              Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 8:21 PM
              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas

               

              The rule can be relaxed depending on your maintenance, filter system, live plants and type of fish.

               

              9 barbs, 2 gouramis and a pleco is not over stocked in a 29 gallon tank as long as you do weekly 20% water changes and have a good filter. However, if you were to reduce your water changes to once in 3 weeks and don’t have a powerful filter, the tank could be considered a bit over stocked.

               

              I have about 28 mbunas (Malawi cichlids, 2”-3”) in a 29 gallon tank with a canister filter and an internal power filter coupled with weekly 50% water changes and except for the crowd in there (cannot help it), water parameters do not tell me that I am overstocked.

               

              Nim

               

               


              From: greywolfmm [mailto:lists@...]
              Sent: 25 February 2005 23:28
              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas

               


              That's close to what I want to do, but when I add up the fish inches
              of 9 barbs, 2 gouramis, and a pleco, doesn't that go over the limit
              for a 29 gallon tank?


              Kevin

              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , Jeremy Carter <jcarter4490@y...>
              wrote:
              > Upon further review, I think you could do it . It might be a little
              risky though. I would consider then dropping the Platies or Swords and
              upping the Tigers to about 8-9. They might be less inclined to nipo
              the Blues that way. So you could have this:

              > 9 Tiger Barbs
              > 2 Blue Gouramis (Be sure they are both female)
              > 1 Bristlenose Pleco

              > By the way, I'm sorry if I seem pushy or bossy or anything. I love
              thinking about new tanks and kind of get obsessed. Good luck,

              > Jeremy
              >
              > greywolfmm <lists@w...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks for the input.  I like the blue gourami's and everything I
              > have read said that they are compatible with tiger barbs.  I have
              > also seen several display tanks in fish stores that had gourami and
              > tiger barbs in them.  That made me think it was okay to put them
              > together.
              >
              > Kevin
              >
              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , Jeremy Carter <jcarter4490@y...>
              > wrote:
              > > Well, I can see some possible holes. You do know that Black Ruby
              > Barbs are a different species than Tiger Barbs, right? Plus, Tiger
              > Barbs can be nippy, especially to Gouramis. Speaking of which, Blue
              > Gouramis grow to 6 inches and will also be semi-aggressive. If
              > you're thinking cleaner fish how about a Bristelnoes Pleco, they
              > only grow to 5 inches and eat algae their whole lives. Plus, you
              > havge more room to add fish to your tank if you drop those Gouramis.
              > I think this list would be much better for your tank:
              > > 
              > > 6 Black Ruby Barbs (Puntius nigrofasciatus)
              > > 1 Bristlenose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.)
              > > 2 Pearl Gouramis (More peaceful than Blues and only get 4 inches)
              > (Trichogaster leeri)
              > > 3 Swordtails or Platies (Xiphophorus helleri or maculatus,
              > respectively)
              > > 
              > > Please let me/us know what you finally decide to put in the tank.
              > Good luck,
              > > 
              > > Jeremy
              > >
              > > greywolfmm <lists@w...> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > I just started a 29 gallon freshwater tank. While I wait for it to
              > > cycle, I've been thinking about the fish I want to put in it. I'm
              > > moving up for a 20 gallon community tank that I used to commit all
              > the
              > > newbie mistakes we newbies make. With many lessons learned, I plan
              > on
              > > doing this one right.
              > >
              > > So, here's what I'm thinking about doing. Please let me know if
              > this
              > > won't work or if it's too many fish for the tank.
              > >
              > > 6 tiger barbs (2 regular tiger, 2 green tiger, 2 black ruby)
              > > 2 gourami (1 blue and 1 gold)
              > > 1 "cleaner" type fish.
              > >
              > > I have read in many places that you need to keep barbs in schools
              > of
              > > at least 6. I could be wrong, but isn't putting 6 fish in a tank
              > all
              > > at the same time a bad thing to do?
              > >
              > > I would appreciate any input.
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > >
              > > Kevin
              >

              >            

              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Do you Yahoo!?
              > >  Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
              >
              >            
              > ---------------------------------
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              >  Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.





              please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




              please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





              please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8765 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/26/2005
              Subject: Re: 29 gallon mbuna tank
              Attachments :

                Oh, and I have not had problems with Valliseneria, amazon sword and anubias with them and fetched a month and a half old pic of the tank when it was not fully stocked.

                 


                From: Donna Ransome [mailto:djransome@optonline.net]
                Sent: 26 February 2005 15:54
                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [AquaticLife] 29 gallon mbuna tank

                 

                Nim, do you have a picture of the 29 gallon mbuna tank?  I’d love to set one up some day (not this year).  Are live plants out of the question with these cichlids?  I know you need lots of rocks and caves/hiding places.

                 


                From: Nimish Mathur [mailto: nimmat4@yahoo.co.uk ]
                Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 8:21 PM
                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas

                 

                The rule can be relaxed depending on your maintenance, filter system, live plants and type of fish.

                 

                9 barbs, 2 gouramis and a pleco is not over stocked in a 29 gallon tank as long as you do weekly 20% water changes and have a good filter. However, if you were to reduce your water changes to once in 3 weeks and don’t have a powerful filter, the tank could be considered a bit over stocked.

                 

                I have about 28 mbunas (Malawi cichlids, 2”-3”) in a 29 gallon tank with a canister filter and an internal power filter coupled with weekly 50% water changes and except for the crowd in there (cannot help it), water parameters do not tell me that I am overstocked.

                 

                Nim

                 

                 


                From: greywolfmm [mailto:lists@wolfonline.com]
                Sent: 25 February 2005 23:28
                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas

                 


                That's close to what I want to do, but when I add up the fish inches
                of 9 barbs, 2 gouramis, and a pleco, doesn't that go over the limit
                for a 29 gallon tank?


                Kevin

                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , Jeremy Carter <jcarter4490@y...>
                wrote:
                > Upon further review, I think you could do it . It might be a little
                risky though. I would consider then dropping the Platies or Swords and
                upping the Tigers to about 8-9. They might be less inclined to nipo
                the Blues that way. So you could have this:

                > 9 Tiger Barbs
                > 2 Blue Gouramis (Be sure they are both female)
                > 1 Bristlenose Pleco

                > By the way, I'm sorry if I seem pushy or bossy or anything. I love
                thinking about new tanks and kind of get obsessed. Good luck,

                > Jeremy
                >
                > greywolfmm <lists@w...> wrote:
                >
                > Thanks for the input.  I like the blue gourami's and everything I
                > have read said that they are compatible with tiger barbs.  I have
                > also seen several display tanks in fish stores that had gourami and
                > tiger barbs in them.  That made me think it was okay to put them
                > together.
                >
                > Kevin
                >
                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , Jeremy Carter <jcarter4490@y...>
                > wrote:
                > > Well, I can see some possible holes. You do know that Black Ruby
                > Barbs are a different species than Tiger Barbs, right? Plus, Tiger
                > Barbs can be nippy, especially to Gouramis. Speaking of which, Blue
                > Gouramis grow to 6 inches and will also be semi-aggressive. If
                > you're thinking cleaner fish how about a Bristelnoes Pleco, they
                > only grow to 5 inches and eat algae their whole lives. Plus, you
                > havge more room to add fish to your tank if you drop those Gouramis.
                > I think this list would be much better for your tank:
                > > 
                > > 6 Black Ruby Barbs (Puntius nigrofasciatus)
                > > 1 Bristlenose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.)
                > > 2 Pearl Gouramis (More peaceful than Blues and only get 4 inches)
                > (Trichogaster leeri)
                > > 3 Swordtails or Platies (Xiphophorus helleri or maculatus,
                > respectively)
                > > 
                > > Please let me/us know what you finally decide to put in the tank.
                > Good luck,
                > > 
                > > Jeremy
                > >
                > > greywolfmm <lists@w...> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > I just started a 29 gallon freshwater tank. While I wait for it to
                > > cycle, I've been thinking about the fish I want to put in it. I'm
                > > moving up for a 20 gallon community tank that I used to commit all
                > the
                > > newbie mistakes we newbies make. With many lessons learned, I plan
                > on
                > > doing this one right.
                > >
                > > So, here's what I'm thinking about doing. Please let me know if
                > this
                > > won't work or if it's too many fish for the tank.
                > >
                > > 6 tiger barbs (2 regular tiger, 2 green tiger, 2 black ruby)
                > > 2 gourami (1 blue and 1 gold)
                > > 1 "cleaner" type fish.
                > >
                > > I have read in many places that you need to keep barbs in schools
                > of
                > > at least 6. I could be wrong, but isn't putting 6 fish in a tank
                > all
                > > at the same time a bad thing to do?
                > >
                > > I would appreciate any input.
                > >
                > > Thanks,
                > >
                > > Kevin
                >

                >            

                > > ---------------------------------
                > > Do you Yahoo!?
                > >  Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
                >
                >            
                > ---------------------------------
                > Do you Yahoo!?
                >  Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.





                please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




                please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





                please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8766 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/26/2005
                Subject: Re: 29 gallon mbuna tank

                Strange. Did you try valliseneria and anubias? Mine don’t touch them at all.

                 

                Also, what do you feed them? Mine love algae wafers for plecos :D so that’s their staple diet. They get food every alternate day and every other time they get crushed algae wafers. Otherwise they get a mix of Tetra prima, hikari cichlid pellets, and tetra ruby colour enhancing flakes.

                 

                Nim

                 

                 


                From: ben olds [mailto:bcjolds@...]
                Sent: 26 February 2005 17:47
                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 29 gallon mbuna tank

                 

                most mbuna's are vege eaters and plants are dessert. My tanks have no plants except when I add them so that the fish have something to chew on.



                Have a great day!  Ben... 


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                please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8767 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/26/2005
                Subject: Re: 29 gallon (Anubias plant)
                Attachments :
                  I had a very large Anubias in my Mbuna tank. Its so large I  spilt it into 15 smaller plants. The Mbuna I have will not touch the stuff. They dig it up all the time which don't hurt the plant. But they don't eat the plant at all. I think the leaves have a taste that fish don't like. Only thing that seems to eat them are snails.
                  Attached is a picture of the Plant after I split it up...It was originally 5 times this big....
                  Holes in the leaves are from the small pesky snails..Unwanted but so hard to get rid of...


                  rob
                  Indiana
                  USA

                  In a message dated 2/26/2005 1:03:28 PM US Eastern Standard Time,


                  most mbuna's are vege eaters and plants are dessert. My tanks have no plants except when I add them so that the fish have something to chew on.



                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8768 From: TankGurl Date: 2/26/2005
                  Subject: Intro
                  Hello folks,

                  Just thought I'd post a short introduction. I"m located in London,
                  Ontario and I've been keeping aquariums for about 6 years now,
                  everything from Koi to African Cichlids.

                  Presently I have a 65 gallon with a mixed group of African cichlids (all 3 Rift
                  Lakes), which include a few adults with the majority being juveniles.
                  Among this group are 6 Frontosa (Burundi) who will be moving into
                  their own 130 gallon tank within a month.

                  Details and images can be found here:
                  http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=7176
                  http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?fish_gurl

                  In regards to the recent post about plants and cichlids: Regardless of
                  the common assumption that cichlids will destroy all plants, I have
                  found it to be not true. I keep 4 different species of plants and not
                  one has been uprooted or destroyed by my cichlid group in over a year.
                  I suppose it depends on the type of cichlid? I find keeping plants
                  helps to keep nitrates down, which can be a killer if left unchecked.

                  Looking forward to contributing to the group.

                  Kelly
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8769 From: harry perry Date: 2/26/2005
                  Subject: Re: Homemade substrate?/To Aranel
                  The problem with puting peat or soil under gravel is anytime you plant something you create a mess. Cloudy water etc. Be careful, peat from a garden supply store can kill your fish because of chemicals added. I've tried many things over the years. Here's what works for me: 2"  of gravel, a balanced tank, easy on the food, Flourish excel and diy co2 with a reactor not just a soda bottle and an air stone. My 29 gal. set up this way now supplies my 2 other tanks with plants(cuttings). When I first planted my Madagascar lace I wraped the bulb in sterlized peat from my lfs. Within 2 months the plant threw out a "bloom" arm that grew out of the tank and flowered. Give the plants what they need, if not in the substrate then with light, fertilizer and co2.
                   
                  Harry  

                  Aranel <aranel@...> wrote:
                  Hello everyone. I have an empty ten gallon aquarium that I'm going to be
                  setting up soon from scratch and I'd like for it to be a planted tank. I
                  haven't messed with live plants very much, so any advice would be very
                  much appreciated.

                  I've been trying to find out how to do a homemade substrate, since I
                  can't afford to spend 40$ at Petsmart for their pre-made stuff. I
                  haven't found much, but I did read that you could put a mixture of peat
                  and potting soil under your gravel for the roots to grow into. Of course
                  I'd want to make sure that these are safe for the fish before I did
                  anything like that. Does anyone have any suggestions? Have any of you
                  made your own substrates, and if you did, what did you use?

                  Like I said, any help would be great. Thanks!

                  -Aranel


                  please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




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                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8770 From: AL Date: 2/26/2005
                  Subject: Plants
                  I was wondering if someone can tell me how to crop plants for
                  growing them?
                  Al
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8771 From: Carly Smith Date: 2/26/2005
                  Subject: Request
                  When people are replying to msg's is there any way that you can delete out the non-pertinent information from the post you are replying to? For those of us who are on digest is is a lot to scroll through if there are 3 or four msg's attached to the end of each msg! Half the time I can't pick out the new from the old and delete the whole digest.

                  It only takes a few seconds and would be greatly appreciated!

                  Thanks!
                  Carly
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8772 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/26/2005
                  Subject: Re: Plants
                  Aqua Botanic     Has some Great information on planted tanks. They also have a wet thumb forum for discussing plants, a  help desk and gallery of plant pictures.. I'd suggest doing a little web surfing on there sight it will be very educational and will probally answer all your questions..

                  some plants require you to cut new runners off, some require roots to be cut/ others just need the stems cut/ and ends planted..   it varies

                  rob
                  NE Indiana
                  USA


                  In a message dated 2/26/2005 5:05:34 PM US Eastern Standard Time, ALKILLIAN@... writes:


                  I was wondering if someone can tell me how to crop plants for
                  growing them?
                  Al


                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8773 From: paul helms Date: 2/26/2005
                  Subject: Re: Request
                  WHY USE DIGEST THEN? IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE QUESTION
                  AND ANSWER....
                  --- Carly Smith <questnjurny@...> wrote:

                  > When people are replying to msg's is there any way
                  > that you can delete out the non-pertinent
                  > information from the post you are replying to? For
                  > those of us who are on digest is is a lot to scroll
                  > through if there are 3 or four msg's attached to the
                  > end of each msg! Half the time I can't pick out the
                  > new from the old and delete the whole digest.
                  >
                  > It only takes a few seconds and would be greatly
                  > appreciated!
                  >
                  > Thanks!
                  > Carly
                  >





                  __________________________________
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                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8774 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/26/2005
                  Subject: Re: 29 gallon (Anubias plant)

                  I have my anubias roots under the rock work so that prevents them uprooting the plants. I also have rockwork around the valliseneria so that also helps.

                   

                  Nim

                   

                   


                  From: FortWayneFish@... [mailto:FortWayneFish@...]
                  Sent: 26 February 2005 18:14
                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: 29 gallon (Anubias plant)

                   

                  I had a very large Anubias in my Mbuna tank. Its so large I  spilt it into 15 smaller plants. The Mbuna I have will not touch the stuff. They dig it up all the time which don't hurt the plant. But they don't eat the plant at all. I think the leaves have a taste that fish don't like. Only thing that seems to eat them are snails.
                  Attached is a picture of the Plant after I split it up...It was originally 5 times this big....
                  Holes in the leaves are from the small pesky snails..Unwanted but so hard to get rid of...


                  rob
                  Indiana
                  USA

                  In a message dated 2/26/2005 1:03:28 PM US Eastern Standard Time,

                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8775 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/26/2005
                  Subject: Pacific Coast Cichlid Association , 3/12/2005, 7:00 pm
                  Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                  Pacific Coast Cichlid Association

                  Saturday March 12, 2005
                  7:00 pm - 10:00 pm
                  This event repeats on the second Saturday of every month.
                  The next reminder for this event will be sent in 11 days, 4 minutes.

                  Event Location: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Avenue in San Jose, California
                  Notes:
                  The PCCA meets every second Saturday of the month. Meetings are held a the Round Table Pizza parlor located at 4302 Moorpark Avenue in San Jose, California

                  http://www.cichlidworld.com/

                  February 12: Pam Chin
                  Breeding Malawi Cichlids

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                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8776 From: Amalthea Date: 2/26/2005
                  Subject: Re: Homemade substrate?/To Aranel
                  when you're doing co2 you can (if you're careful!) put the output line
                  (the one with the co2 coming out) right into the intake of a canister
                  filter and that will mix the co2 into the water for you without using a
                  diffuser. you must be CAREFUL though, because if for some reason the
                  rest of the intake gets blocked, you can end up sucking the yeasty mess
                  into the water, though i've never had this happen myself.
                  amalthea
                  http://www.puppetterrors.com
                  Don't be Afraid to Scream....
                  On Feb 26, 2005, at 4:00 PM, harry perry wrote:

                  > The problem with puting peat or soil under gravel is anytime you plant
                  > something you create a mess. Cloudy water etc. Be careful, peat from a
                  > garden supply store can kill your fish because of chemicals added.
                  > I've tried many things over the years. Here's what works for me: 2" 
                  > of gravel, a balanced tank, easy on the food, Flourish excel and diy
                  > co2 with a reactor not just a soda bottle and an air stone. My 29 gal.
                  > set up this way now supplies my 2 other tanks with plants(cuttings).
                  > When I first planted my Madagascar lace I wraped the bulb in sterlized
                  > peat from my lfs. Within 2 months the plant threw out a "bloom" arm
                  > that grew out of the tank and flowered. Give the plants what they
                  > need, if not in the substrate then with light, fertilizer and co2.
                  >  
                  > Harry  
                  >
                  > Aranel <aranel@...> wrote:
                  > Hello everyone. I have an empty ten gallon aquarium that I'm going to
                  > be
                  > setting up soon from scratch and I'd like for it to be a planted
                  > tank. I
                  > haven't messed with live plants very much, so any advice would be very
                  > much appreciated.
                  >
                  > I've been trying to find out how to do a homemade substrate, since I
                  > can't afford to spend 40$ at Petsmart for their pre-made stuff. I
                  > haven't found much, but I did read that you could put a mixture of peat
                  > and potting soil under your gravel for the roots to grow into. Of
                  > course
                  > I'd want to make sure that these are safe for the fish before I did
                  > anything like that. Does anyone have any suggestions? Have any of you
                  > made your own substrates, and if you did, what did you use?
                  >
                  > Like I said, any help would be great. Thanks!
                  >
                  > -Aranel
                  >
                  >
                  > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
                  >
                  > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8777 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/26/2005
                  Subject: Re: Request
                  While I understand your problem, if we all quit putting the post we are replying to, those of us who do not use digest would have trouble keeping up with who is answering who.  So the question is, who do you make happy and who do you make mad?  Is this a paradox? :)
                   
                  Patrick
                  -------Original Message-------
                  When people are replying to msg's is there any way that you can delete out the non-pertinent information from the post you are replying to?  For those of us who are on digest is is a lot to scroll through if there are 3 or four msg's attached to the end of each msg!  Half the time I can't pick out the new from the old and delete the whole digest.

                  It only takes a few seconds and would be greatly appreciated!

                  Thanks!
                  Carly
                  Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8778 From: Donna Ransome Date: 2/27/2005
                  Subject: Re: 29 gallon mbuna tank

                  Beautiful!  My favorites are the demasoni, but the yellow labs and the synodontis are cool too.

                   


                  From: Nimish Mathur [mailto:nimmat4@...]
                  Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 12:58 PM
                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 29 gallon mbuna tank

                   

                  Oh, and I have not had problems with Valliseneria, amazon sword and anubias with them and fetched a month and a half old pic of the tank when it was not fully stocked.

                   


                  From: Donna Ransome [mailto:djransome@...]
                  Sent: 26 February 2005 15:54
                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [AquaticLife] 29 gallon mbuna tank

                   

                  Nim, do you have a picture of the 29 gallon mbuna tank?  I’d love to set one up some day (not this year).  Are live plants out of the question with these cichlids?  I know you need lots of rocks and caves/hiding places.

                   


                  From: Nimish Mathur [mailto: nimmat4@... ]
                  Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 8:21 PM
                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas

                   

                  The rule can be relaxed depending on your maintenance, filter system, live plants and type of fish.

                   

                  9 barbs, 2 gouramis and a pleco is not over stocked in a 29 gallon tank as long as you do weekly 20% water changes and have a good filter. However, if you were to reduce your water changes to once in 3 weeks and don’t have a powerful filter, the tank could be considered a bit over stocked.

                   

                  I have about 28 mbunas (Malawi cichlids, 2”-3”) in a 29 gallon tank with a canister filter and an internal power filter coupled with weekly 50% water changes and except for the crowd in there (cannot help it), water parameters do not tell me that I am overstocked.

                   

                  Nim

                   

                   


                  From: greywolfmm [mailto:lists@...]
                  Sent: 25 February 2005 23:28
                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas

                   


                  That's close to what I want to do, but when I add up the fish inches
                  of 9 barbs, 2 gouramis, and a pleco, doesn't that go over the limit
                  for a 29 gallon tank?


                  Kevin

                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , Jeremy Carter <jcarter4490@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > Upon further review, I think you could do it . It might be a little
                  risky though. I would consider then dropping the Platies or Swords and
                  upping the Tigers to about 8-9. They might be less inclined to nipo
                  the Blues that way. So you could have this:

                  > 9 Tiger Barbs
                  > 2 Blue Gouramis (Be sure they are both female)
                  > 1 Bristlenose Pleco

                  > By the way, I'm sorry if I seem pushy or bossy or anything. I love
                  thinking about new tanks and kind of get obsessed. Good luck,

                  > Jeremy
                  >
                  > greywolfmm <lists@w...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Thanks for the input.  I like the blue gourami's and everything I
                  > have read said that they are compatible with tiger barbs.  I have
                  > also seen several display tanks in fish stores that had gourami and
                  > tiger barbs in them.  That made me think it was okay to put them
                  > together.
                  >
                  > Kevin
                  >
                  > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , Jeremy Carter <jcarter4490@y...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > Well, I can see some possible holes. You do know that Black Ruby
                  > Barbs are a different species than Tiger Barbs, right? Plus, Tiger
                  > Barbs can be nippy, especially to Gouramis. Speaking of which, Blue
                  > Gouramis grow to 6 inches and will also be semi-aggressive. If
                  > you're thinking cleaner fish how about a Bristelnoes Pleco, they
                  > only grow to 5 inches and eat algae their whole lives. Plus, you
                  > havge more room to add fish to your tank if you drop those Gouramis.
                  > I think this list would be much better for your tank:
                  > > 
                  > > 6 Black Ruby Barbs (Puntius nigrofasciatus)
                  > > 1 Bristlenose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.)
                  > > 2 Pearl Gouramis (More peaceful than Blues and only get 4 inches)
                  > (Trichogaster leeri)
                  > > 3 Swordtails or Platies (Xiphophorus helleri or maculatus,
                  > respectively)
                  > > 
                  > > Please let me/us know what you finally decide to put in the tank.
                  > Good luck,
                  > > 
                  > > Jeremy
                  > >
                  > > greywolfmm <lists@w...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I just started a 29 gallon freshwater tank. While I wait for it to
                  > > cycle, I've been thinking about the fish I want to put in it. I'm
                  > > moving up for a 20 gallon community tank that I used to commit all
                  > the
                  > > newbie mistakes we newbies make. With many lessons learned, I plan
                  > on
                  > > doing this one right.
                  > >
                  > > So, here's what I'm thinking about doing. Please let me know if
                  > this
                  > > won't work or if it's too many fish for the tank.
                  > >
                  > > 6 tiger barbs (2 regular tiger, 2 green tiger, 2 black ruby)
                  > > 2 gourami (1 blue and 1 gold)
                  > > 1 "cleaner" type fish.
                  > >
                  > > I have read in many places that you need to keep barbs in schools
                  > of
                  > > at least 6. I could be wrong, but isn't putting 6 fish in a tank
                  > all
                  > > at the same time a bad thing to do?
                  > >
                  > > I would appreciate any input.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks,
                  > >
                  > > Kevin
                  >

                  >            

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                  please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks



                  please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




                  please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





                  please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks




                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8779 From: mfathim78 Date: 2/27/2005
                  Subject: fish species
                  dear all
                  i need to know what is the valuable fish species present in each
                  countries
                  pleases send me the name of fish species and how can get it and its
                  characteries

                  thaks for your help
                  Mohamed fathi
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8780 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/27/2005
                  Subject: Fry with deformed tail???
                  Hello,
                  I found 3 guppy fry in my 20 gallon tank today, while floating them
                  in the 10 gallon grow out tank I noticed one has a strange tail I'll
                  try and explain it. It is split into two seprate parts but still one
                  whole tail up towards the body of the fish it's shapped like a v
                  except that the top is longer than the bottom. I tried and tried to
                  get a picture but the fry is so small it wouldn't take a clear
                  picture. I know I'm thinking I've seen guppies like this in the store
                  before. Does anyone know thanks.
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8781 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/27/2005
                  Subject: PS. Fry with deformed tail???
                  Or do you think another fish tried to eat him and caught his tail? Thanks
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8782 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 2/27/2005
                  Subject: Re: Fry with deformed tail???
                  Sounds like that fry is developing into a double sword Guppy, the genes of which it may well have somewhere in its background if this is what it turns out to be.  Many of these fancy Guppies have a mixed gene pool.  Ray
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8783 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/27/2005
                  Subject: Re: Fry with deformed tail???
                  The store where I get my guppies has females and males in the same
                  tank so I know there is a good chance of having some very different
                  fry than what my males look like. I like those double sword tails (on
                  the only few I've seen) so I'll be excited if that is what it is..
                  =:O) Thanks for the reply. Also do you or anyone know a rough estimate
                  of how long it takes for fry to be sexed? I have about 30 fry all from
                  about I'm guessing 4 weeks (can't really remember) to just a few days
                  or a week or so and my biggest 5 fish all seem to have the girl fin on
                  there bottom. SO did I end up with all females or will some maybe
                  change later on? They are starting to get the first hints of color also.


                  > Sounds like that fry is developing into a double sword Guppy, the
                  genes of
                  > which it may well have somewhere in its background if this is what
                  it turns out
                  > to be. Many of these fancy Guppies have a mixed gene pool. Ray
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8784 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 2/27/2005
                  Subject: Digest Number 625 - CUT & PASTE/COPY & PASTE
                  In a message dated 2/27/05 5:53:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com writes:


                  From: Carly Smith <questnjurny@...>
                  Subject: Request

                  When people are replying to msg's is there any way that you can delete out the non-pertinent information from the post you are replying to?  


                  As we say in Southern Japan "Rots of Ruck Y'all".  I've been fighting for this on most of the groups I
                  belong to for about a year with no success.


                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8785 From: Carly Smith Date: 2/27/2005
                  Subject: Re: Request.
                  Wow, a simple request, didn't expect people to get so upset! I use digest, i prefer it to getting a bunch of little emails in my inbox....I am a member of a lot of different lists, so it piles up.

                  I did *not* say to delete the whole msg, just the bits like the part that says "please delete this line" and all the yahoo crap, headers, footers etc. actually this is general netequitte, and somehow this is the only list I am on that people seem to be inable to do clean up their msg's. I agree, some of the msg needs to be left so that you have a clue what is being replied to, but not all of it!

                  Had I realized it would be such a big issue to some of you, I wouldn't have troubled you with it, but I am sure i am not the only one that gets tired of scrolling down through useless lines of digests.



                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Sunday, February 27, 2005 2:53 pm
                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 625

                  >
                  > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
                  > ~-->
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                  > Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts!
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                  > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > -~->
                  >
                  > There are 14 messages in this issue.
                  >
                  > Topics in this digest:
                  >
                  > 1. Plants
                  > From: "AL" <ALKILLIAN@...>
                  > 2. Request
                  > From: Carly Smith <questnjurny@...>
                  > 3. Re: Plants
                  > From: FortWayneFish@...
                  > 4. Re: Request
                  > From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                  > 5. RE: RE: 29 gallon (Anubias plant)
                  > From: "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@...>
                  > 6. Pacific Coast Cichlid Association , 3/12/2005, 7:00 pm
                  > From: AquaticLife
                  > 7. Re: Homemade substrate?/To Aranel
                  > From: Amalthea <amalthea23@...>
                  > 8. Re: Request
                  > From: "Patrick, American Fish Guy" <patrickmn1@...>
                  > 9. RE: 29 gallon mbuna tank
                  > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...>
                  > 10. fish species
                  > From: "mfathim78" <mfathim78@...>
                  > 11. Fry with deformed tail???
                  > From: "mommy2acdhsurvivor" <CK147@...>
                  > 12. PS. Fry with deformed tail???
                  > From: "mommy2acdhsurvivor" <CK147@...>
                  > 13. Re: Fry with deformed tail???
                  > From: sevenspringss@...
                  > 14. Re: Fry with deformed tail???
                  > From: "mommy2acdhsurvivor" <CK147@...>
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  >
                  > Message: 1
                  > Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 22:04:29 -0000
                  > From: "AL" <ALKILLIAN@...>
                  > Subject: Plants
                  >
                  >
                  > I was wondering if someone can tell me how to crop plants for
                  > growing them?
                  > Al
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  >
                  > Message: 2
                  > Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:09:08 -0800
                  > From: Carly Smith <questnjurny@...>
                  > Subject: Request
                  >
                  > When people are replying to msg's is there any way that you can
                  > delete out the non-pertinent information from the post you are
                  > replying to? For those of us who are on digest is is a lot to
                  > scroll through if there are 3 or four msg's attached to the end of
                  > each msg! Half the time I can't pick out the new from the old and
                  > delete the whole digest.
                  >
                  > It only takes a few seconds and would be greatly appreciated!
                  >
                  > Thanks!
                  > Carly
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  >
                  > Message: 3
                  > Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:55:38 EST
                  > From: FortWayneFish@...
                  > Subject: Re: Plants
                  >
                  > Aqua Botanic Has some Great information on planted tanks.
                  > They also have
                  > a wet thumb forum for discussing plants, a help desk and gallery
                  > of plant
                  > pictures.. I'd suggest doing a little web surfing on there sight
                  > it will be very
                  > educational and will probally answer all your questions..
                  >
                  > some plants require you to cut new runners off, some require roots
                  > to be cut/
                  > others just need the stems cut/ and ends planted.. it varies
                  >
                  > rob
                  > NE Indiana
                  > USA
                  >
                  >
                  > In a message dated 2/26/2005 5:05:34 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
                  > ALKILLIAN@... writes:
                  >
                  >
                  > > I was wondering if someone can tell me how to crop plants for
                  > > growing them?
                  > > Al
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [This message contained attachments]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  >
                  > Message: 4
                  > Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 15:02:44 -0800 (PST)
                  > From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                  > Subject: Re: Request
                  >
                  > WHY USE DIGEST THEN? IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE QUESTION
                  > AND ANSWER....
                  > --- Carly Smith <questnjurny@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > When people are replying to msg's is there any way
                  > > that you can delete out the non-pertinent
                  > > information from the post you are replying to? For
                  > > those of us who are on digest is is a lot to scroll
                  > > through if there are 3 or four msg's attached to the
                  > > end of each msg! Half the time I can't pick out the
                  > > new from the old and delete the whole digest.
                  > >
                  > > It only takes a few seconds and would be greatly
                  > > appreciated!
                  > >
                  > > Thanks!
                  > > Carly
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________
                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
                  > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  >
                  > Message: 5
                  > Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 23:11:57 -0000
                  > From: "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@...>
                  > Subject: RE: RE: 29 gallon (Anubias plant)
                  >
                  > I have my anubias roots under the rock work so that prevents them
                  > uprootingthe plants. I also have rockwork around the valliseneria
                  > so that also helps.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Nim
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > From: FortWayneFish@... [FortWayneFish@...]
                  > Sent: 26 February 2005 18:14
                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: 29 gallon (Anubias plant)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I had a very large Anubias in my Mbuna tank. Its so large I spilt
                  > it into
                  > 15 smaller plants. The Mbuna I have will not touch the stuff. They
                  > dig it up
                  > all the time which don't hurt the plant. But they don't eat the
                  > plant at
                  > all. I think the leaves have a taste that fish don't like. Only
                  > thing that
                  > seems to eat them are snails.
                  > Attached is a picture of the Plant after I split it up...It was
                  > originally 5
                  > times this big....
                  > Holes in the leaves are from the small pesky snails..Unwanted but
                  > so hard to
                  > get rid of...
                  >
                  >
                  > rob
                  > Indiana
                  > USA
                  >
                  > In a message dated 2/26/2005 1:03:28 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [This message contained attachments]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  >
                  > Message: 6
                  > Date: 27 Feb 2005 02:55:36 -0000
                  > From: AquaticLife
                  > Subject: Pacific Coast Cichlid Association , 3/12/2005, 7:00 pm
                  >
                  >
                  > Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/cal
                  >
                  > Pacific Coast Cichlid Association
                  > Saturday March 12, 2005
                  > 7:00 pm - 10:00 pm
                  > (This event repeats on the second Saturday of every month.)
                  > (The next reminder for this event will be sent in 11 days, 4 minutes.)
                  > Event Location: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Avenue in San
                  > Jose, California
                  >
                  > Notes:
                  > The PCCA meets every second Saturday of the month. Meetings are
                  > held a the Round Table Pizza parlor located at 4302 Moorpark
                  > Avenue in San Jose, California
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > http://www.cichlidworld.com/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > February 12: Pam Chin
                  >
                  > Breeding Malawi Cichlids
                  >
                  >
                  > Send a Yahoo! Greeting at:
                  > http://greetings.yahoo.com
                  >
                  > Set up birthday reminders!
                  >
                  > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/cal_us/rem/?http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/cal?v=9&evt_type=13
                  > Copyright 2005 Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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                  > Privacy Policy:
                  > http://privacy.yahoo.com/
                  >
                  > Terms of Service:
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  > [This message contained attachments]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  >
                  > Message: 7
                  > Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 22:35:17 -0500
                  > From: Amalthea <amalthea23@...>
                  > Subject: Re: Homemade substrate?/To Aranel
                  >
                  > when you're doing co2 you can (if you're careful!) put the output
                  > line
                  > (the one with the co2 coming out) right into the intake of a
                  > canister
                  > filter and that will mix the co2 into the water for you without
                  > using a
                  > diffuser. you must be CAREFUL though, because if for some reason
                  > the
                  > rest of the intake gets blocked, you can end up sucking the yeasty
                  > mess
                  > into the water, though i've never had this happen myself.
                  > amalthea
                  > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                  > Don't be Afraid to Scream....
                  > On Feb 26, 2005, at 4:00 PM, harry perry wrote:
                  >
                  > > The problem with puting peat or soil under gravel is anytime you
                  > plant
                  > > something you create a mess. Cloudy water etc. Be careful, peat
                  > from a
                  > > garden supply store can kill your fish because of chemicals
                  > added.
                  > > I've tried many things over the years. Here's what works for me:
                  > 2"
                  > > of gravel, a balanced tank, easy on the food, Flourish excel and
                  > diy
                  > > co2 with a reactor not just a soda bottle and an air stone. My
                  > 29 gal.
                  > > set up this way now supplies my 2 other tanks with
                  > plants(cuttings).
                  > > When I first planted my Madagascar lace I wraped the bulb in
                  > sterlized
                  > > peat from my lfs. Within 2 months the plant threw out a "bloom"
                  > arm
                  > > that grew out of the tank and flowered. Give the plants what
                  > they
                  > > need, if not in the substrate then with light, fertilizer and co2.
                  > >
                  > > Harry
                  > >
                  > > Aranel <aranel@...> wrote:
                  > > Hello everyone. I have an empty ten gallon aquarium that I'm
                  > going to
                  > > be
                  > > setting up soon from scratch and I'd like for it to be a
                  > planted
                  > > tank. I
                  > > haven't messed with live plants very much, so any advice would
                  > be very
                  > > much appreciated.
                  > >
                  > > I've been trying to find out how to do a homemade substrate,
                  > since I
                  > > can't afford to spend 40$ at Petsmart for their pre-made stuff. I
                  > > haven't found much, but I did read that you could put a mixture
                  > of peat
                  > > and potting soil under your gravel for the roots to grow into.
                  > Of
                  > > course
                  > > I'd want to make sure that these are safe for the fish before I did
                  > > anything like that. Does anyone have any suggestions? Have any
                  > of you
                  > > made your own substrates, and if you did, what did you use?
                  > >
                  > > Like I said, any help would be great. Thanks!
                  > >
                  > > -Aranel
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                  > thanks>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
                  > >
                  > > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                  > thanks>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
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                  > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >
                  > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                  > Terms of
                  > > Service.
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [This message contained attachments]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  >
                  > Message: 8
                  > Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 22:40:38 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
                  > From: "Patrick, American Fish Guy" <patrickmn1@...>
                  > Subject: Re: Request
                  >
                  > While I understand your problem, if we all quit putting the post
                  > we are
                  > replying to, those of us who do not use digest would have trouble
                  > keeping up
                  > with who is answering who. So the question is, who do you make
                  > happy and
                  > who do you make mad? Is this a paradox? :)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Patrick
                  >
                  > -------Original Message-------
                  >
                  > When people are replying to msg's is there any way that you can
                  > delete out
                  > the non-pertinent information from the post you are replying to?
                  > For those
                  > of us who are on digest is is a lot to scroll through if there are
                  > 3 or four
                  > msg's attached to the end of each msg! Half the time I can't pick
                  > out the
                  > new from the old and delete the whole digest.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > It only takes a few seconds and would be greatly appreciated!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Thanks!
                  >
                  > Carly
                  >
                  > [This message contained attachments]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  >
                  > Message: 9
                  > Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:12:46 -0500
                  > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...>
                  > Subject: RE: 29 gallon mbuna tank
                  >
                  > Beautiful! My favorites are the demasoni, but the yellow labs and the
                  > synodontis are cool too.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > From: Nimish Mathur [nimmat4@...]
                  > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 12:58 PM
                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 29 gallon mbuna tank
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Oh, and I have not had problems with Valliseneria, amazon sword
                  > and anubias
                  > with them and fetched a month and a half old pic of the tank when
                  > it was not
                  > fully stocked.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > From: Donna Ransome [djransome@...]
                  > Sent: 26 February 2005 15:54
                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [AquaticLife] 29 gallon mbuna tank
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Nim, do you have a picture of the 29 gallon mbuna tank? I'd love
                  > to set one
                  > up some day (not this year). Are live plants out of the question
                  > with these
                  > cichlids? I know you need lots of rocks and caves/hiding places.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > From: Nimish Mathur [nimmat4@...]
                  > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 8:21 PM
                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The rule can be relaxed depending on your maintenance, filter
                  > system, live
                  > plants and type of fish.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 9 barbs, 2 gouramis and a pleco is not over stocked in a 29 gallon
                  > tank as
                  > long as you do weekly 20% water changes and have a good filter.
                  > However, if
                  > you were to reduce your water changes to once in 3 weeks and don't
                  > have a
                  > powerful filter, the tank could be considered a bit over stocked.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I have about 28 mbunas (Malawi cichlids, 2"-3") in a 29 gallon
                  > tank with a
                  > canister filter and an internal power filter coupled with weekly
                  > 50% water
                  > changes and except for the crowd in there (cannot help it), water
                  > parametersdo not tell me that I am overstocked.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Nim
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > From: greywolfmm [lists@...]
                  > Sent: 25 February 2005 23:28
                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New 29 gallon tank - fish ideas
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > That's close to what I want to do, but when I add up the fish inches
                  > of 9 barbs, 2 gouramis, and a pleco, doesn't that go over the limit
                  > for a 29 gallon tank?
                  >
                  >
                  > Kevin
                  >
                  > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeremy Carter <jcarter4490@y...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > Upon further review, I think you could do it . It might be a little
                  > risky though. I would consider then dropping the Platies or Swords and
                  > upping the Tigers to about 8-9. They might be less inclined to nipo
                  > the Blues that way. So you could have this:
                  > >
                  > > 9 Tiger Barbs
                  > > 2 Blue Gouramis (Be sure they are both female)
                  > > 1 Bristlenose Pleco
                  > >
                  > > By the way, I'm sorry if I seem pushy or bossy or anything. I love
                  > thinking about new tanks and kind of get obsessed. Good luck,
                  > >
                  > > Jeremy
                  > >
                  > > greywolfmm <lists@w...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Thanks for the input. I like the blue gourami's and everything
                  > I
                  > > have read said that they are compatible with tiger barbs. I
                  > have
                  > > also seen several display tanks in fish stores that had gourami
                  > and
                  > > tiger barbs in them. That made me think it was okay to put them
                  > > together.
                  > >
                  > > Kevin
                  > >
                  > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeremy Carter
                  > <jcarter4490@y...>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > > Well, I can see some possible holes. You do know that Black
                  > Ruby
                  > > Barbs are a different species than Tiger Barbs, right? Plus,
                  > Tiger
                  > > Barbs can be nippy, especially to Gouramis. Speaking of which,
                  > Blue
                  > > Gouramis grow to 6 inches and will also be semi-aggressive. If
                  > > you're thinking cleaner fish how about a Bristelnoes Pleco, they
                  > > only grow to 5 inches and eat algae their whole lives. Plus, you
                  > > havge more room to add fish to your tank if you drop those
                  > Gouramis.
                  > > I think this list would be much better for your tank:
                  > > >
                  > > > 6 Black Ruby Barbs (Puntius nigrofasciatus)
                  > > > 1 Bristlenose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.)
                  > > > 2 Pearl Gouramis (More peaceful than Blues and only get 4
                  > inches)
                  > > (Trichogaster leeri)
                  > > > 3 Swordtails or Platies (Xiphophorus helleri or maculatus,
                  > > respectively)
                  > > >
                  > > > Please let me/us know what you finally decide to put in the
                  > tank.
                  > > Good luck,
                  > > >
                  > > > Jeremy
                  > > >
                  > > > greywolfmm <lists@w...> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > I just started a 29 gallon freshwater tank. While I wait for
                  > it to
                  > > > cycle, I've been thinking about the fish I want to put in it. I'm
                  > > > moving up for a 20 gallon community tank that I used to commit
                  > all
                  > > the
                  > > > newbie mistakes we newbies make. With many lessons learned, I
                  > plan
                  > > on
                  > > > doing this one right.
                  > > >
                  > > > So, here's what I'm thinking about doing. Please let me know
                  > if
                  > > this
                  > > > won't work or if it's too many fish for the tank.
                  > > >
                  > > > 6 tiger barbs (2 regular tiger, 2 green tiger, 2 black ruby)
                  > > > 2 gourami (1 blue and 1 gold)
                  > > > 1 "cleaner" type fish.
                  > > >
                  > > > I have read in many places that you need to keep barbs in
                  > schools
                  > > of
                  > > > at least 6. I could be wrong, but isn't putting 6 fish in a
                  > tank
                  > > all
                  > > > at the same time a bad thing to do?
                  > > >
                  > > > I would appreciate any input.
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks,
                  > > >
                  > > > Kevin
                  > > >
                  > > > ---------------------------------
                  > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > > > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ---------------------------------
                  > > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                  > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                  > Message: 10
                  > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:01:35 -0000
                  > From: "mfathim78" <mfathim78@...>
                  > Subject: fish species
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > dear all
                  > i need to know what is the valuable fish species present in each
                  > countries
                  > pleases send me the name of fish species and how can get it and
                  > its
                  > characteries
                  >
                  > thaks for your help
                  > Mohamed fathi
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  > ________________________________________________________________________
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                  > Message: 11
                  > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 17:48:26 -0000
                  > From: "mommy2acdhsurvivor" <CK147@...>
                  > Subject: Fry with deformed tail???
                  >
                  >
                  > Hello,
                  > I found 3 guppy fry in my 20 gallon tank today, while floating them
                  > in the 10 gallon grow out tank I noticed one has a strange tail I'll
                  > try and explain it. It is split into two seprate parts but still one
                  > whole tail up towards the body of the fish it's shapped like a v
                  > except that the top is longer than the bottom. I tried and tried to
                  > get a picture but the fry is so small it wouldn't take a clear
                  > picture. I know I'm thinking I've seen guppies like this in the store
                  > before. Does anyone know thanks.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  >
                  > Message: 12
                  > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 17:54:32 -0000
                  > From: "mommy2acdhsurvivor" <CK147@...>
                  > Subject: PS. Fry with deformed tail???
                  >
                  >
                  > Or do you think another fish tried to eat him and caught his tail?
                  > Thanks
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  >
                  > Message: 13
                  > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:11:15 EST
                  > From: sevenspringss@...
                  > Subject: Re: Fry with deformed tail???
                  >
                  > Sounds like that fry is developing into a double sword Guppy, the
                  > genes of
                  > which it may well have somewhere in its background if this is what
                  > it turns out
                  > to be. Many of these fancy Guppies have a mixed gene pool. Ray
                  >
                  >
                  > [This message contained attachments]
                  >
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                  >
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                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  >
                  > Message: 14
                  > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 18:23:40 -0000
                  > From: "mommy2acdhsurvivor" <CK147@...>
                  > Subject: Re: Fry with deformed tail???
                  >
                  >
                  > The store where I get my guppies has females and males in the same
                  > tank so I know there is a good chance of having some very different
                  > fry than what my males look like. I like those double sword tails (on
                  > the only few I've seen) so I'll be excited if that is what it is..
                  > =:O) Thanks for the reply. Also do you or anyone know a rough estimate
                  > of how long it takes for fry to be sexed? I have about 30 fry all from
                  > about I'm guessing 4 weeks (can't really remember) to just a few days
                  > or a week or so and my biggest 5 fish all seem to have the girl
                  > fin on
                  > there bottom. SO did I end up with all females or will some maybe
                  > change later on? They are starting to get the first hints of color
                  > also.
                  >
                  >
                  > > Sounds like that fry is developing into a double sword Guppy, the
                  > genes of
                  > > which it may well have somewhere in its background if this is what
                  > it turns out
                  > > to be. Many of these fancy Guppies have a mixed gene pool. Ray
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
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                  > please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                  >
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                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8786 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 2/27/2005
                  Subject: Re: Digest Number 625
                  In a message dated 2/27/05 5:53:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com writes:


                    From: "Patrick, American Fish Guy" <patrickmn1@...>
                  Subject: Re: Request

                  While I understand your problem, if we all quit putting the post we are
                  replying to, those of us who do not use digest would have trouble keeping up
                  with who is answering who.  So the question is, who do you make happy and
                  who do you make mad?  Is this a paradox? :)



                  It is not always necessary to quote the entire post you are replying to - especially in a long, involved post.  It is usually easy to pick out the important point(s) and just repeat them.
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8787 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 2/27/2005
                  Subject: Re: Digest Number 625 CUT & PASTE/COPY $ PASTE
                  Patrick;

                  A good case in point.  Tell me why it was necessary to repost the following:

                  please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks





                  please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks






                  please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks







                  please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks







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                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8788 From: AJOgg@yahoo.com Date: 2/27/2005
                  Subject: Re: Fry with deformed tail???
                  "It is split into two seprate parts but still one whole tail up
                  towards the body of the fish it's shapped like a v except that the
                  top is longer than the bottom. I tried and tried to get a picture
                  but the fry is so small it wouldn't take a clear picture. I know I'm
                  thinking I've seen guppies like this in the store before. Does
                  anyone know thanks."

                  Could it be a Lyretail Guppy? I bought one at Petsmart last week.
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8789 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/27/2005
                  Subject: Re: Request.
                      I am a member of nearly 20 groups, so I have my email program filter the messages into folders for each group.  Did you forget to remove the entire digest?  I agree that the ads at the bottom should be removed, but most people do that unless they just forget.
                   
                  Patrick, the American Fish Guy
                   
                  Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
                  About my tanks:  
                  29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
                  -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
                  -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                  -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
                  10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
                  -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
                  -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
                  -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
                  -------Original Message-------
                  Wow, a simple request, didn't expect people to get so upset!  I use digest, i prefer it to getting a bunch of little emails in my inbox....I am a member of a lot of different lists, so it piles up.
                   
                  I did *not* say to delete the whole msg, just the bits like the part that says "please delete this line" and all the yahoo crap, headers, footers etc.  actually this is general netequitte, and somehow this is the only list I am on that people seem to be inable to do clean up their msg's.  I agree, some of the msg needs to be left so that you have a clue what is being replied to, but not all of it!
                   
                  Had I realized it would be such a big issue to some of you, I wouldn't have troubled you with it, but I am sure i am not the only one that gets tired of scrolling down through useless lines of digests.
                  Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8790 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/27/2005
                  Subject: Re: Fry with deformed tail???
                  Sounds pretty I hope so, I don't have any of those in my tank, but the
                  males and females are mixed at the store so they may be fry from a
                  daddy back at the store, maybe a lyretail. I'll go look up a lyretale
                  thanks.

                  > "It is split into two seprate parts but still one whole tail up
                  > towards the body of the fish it's shapped like a v except that the
                  > top is longer than the bottom. I tried and tried to get a picture
                  > but the fry is so small it wouldn't take a clear picture. I know I'm
                  > thinking I've seen guppies like this in the store before. Does
                  > anyone know thanks."
                  >
                  > Could it be a Lyretail Guppy? I bought one at Petsmart last week.
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8791 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 2/27/2005
                  Subject: lyretail guppy
                  looking at the pictures it may be I'll have to wait until the colors
                  come in, (but it's only a few days old). I saw one like the pictures
                  on yahoo the other day at the pet store and told the lady it looked
                  like a feeder guppies (well the colors on the body did, not the tail)
                  >
                  > Could it be a Lyretail Guppy? I bought one at Petsmart last week.
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8792 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/27/2005
                  Subject: San Francisco Aquarium Society (SFAS), 3/4/2005, 7:30 pm
                  Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                  San Francisco Aquarium Society (SFAS)

                  Friday March 4, 2005
                  7:30 pm - 9:30 pm
                  This event repeats on the first Friday of every month.

                  Event Location: first Friday of each month at San Francisco State University
                  Notes:
                  http://www.sfaquarium.org/index.html

                  We meet the first Friday of each month at The San Francisco State University.

                  Founded in 1923, the San Francisco Aquarium Society is regarded as one of the nation's esteemed aquarium hobbyist organizations.

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                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8793 From: greywolfmm Date: 2/27/2005
                  Subject: Tiger barbs swimming nose down
                  I recently started a 29 gallon tank. I let it run for a couple days
                  to get the temperature settled, then went the Bio-Spira route by
                  adding it and my fish on Saturday. The barbs had been doing great,
                  zipping around the tank like tigers do. They looked perfectly happy
                  today as well. This evening, however, several of them started
                  swimming with their nose pointed at the bottom of the tank. I
                  immediately checked my water conditions. Ammonia is at 0, Nitrites at
                  0.25, and barely any Nitrates. Temperature is at 77 degrees. This
                  does not look bad to me, so I'm wondering what the problem is or if
                  this is a normal behavior.

                  Any suggestions?

                  Thanks,

                  Kevin
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8794 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/27/2005
                  Subject: Re: Tiger barbs swimming nose down
                      They are probably just feeling the ammonia that is gone now and the nitrites.  They should be gone by tomorrow evening at that rate (either the nitrites or the fish, we will hope for it being the nitrites).  When bio spira works, it sure works fast! :)
                   
                  Patrick, the American Fish Guy
                  -------Original Message-------
                  I recently started a 29 gallon tank.  I let it run for a couple days to get the temperature settled, then went the Bio-Spira route by
                  adding it and my fish on Saturday. The barbs had been doing great, zipping around the tank like tigers do.  They looked perfectly happy today as well.  This evening, however, several of them started swimming with their nose pointed at the bottom of the tank.  I
                  immediately checked my water conditions.  Ammonia is at 0, Nitrites at 0.25, and barely any Nitrates. Temperature is at 77 degrees.  This does not look bad to me, so I'm wondering what the problem is or if this is a normal behavior.
                  Any suggestions? Thanks, Kevin
                  Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8795 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 2/28/2005
                  Subject: Re: Fry with deformed tail???
                  Okay, That description presents a slightly different picture to the
                  mind. I originally pictured two separate extensions (top & bottom)
                  with a verticle gap in the middle of the tail. If the tail has a "V"
                  notch, then yes, this sounds more like a lyretail, which is a
                  recognized guppy strain
                  also.
                  \
                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, AJOgg@y... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > "It is split into two seprate parts but still one whole tail up
                  > towards the body of the fish it's shapped like a v except that the
                  > top is longer than the bottom. I tried and tried to get a picture
                  > but the fry is so small it wouldn't take a clear picture. I know
                  I'm
                  > thinking I've seen guppies like this in the store before. Does
                  > anyone know thanks."
                  >
                  > Could it be a Lyretail Guppy? I bought one at Petsmart last week.
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8796 From: shortlid Date: 2/28/2005
                  Subject: Re: Want something diff. for my 30 gal.
                  What is a shell sweller? Where can I get dwarf Ciclids?? Can they be
                  put in a community tank?

                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, FortWayneFish@a... wrote:
                  > Scrap the whole tank and go with some shell swellers. or if your
                  water is
                  > soft go with a trio of Apistogramma.
                  >
                  >
                  > my 2cents
                  > rob
                  > Indiana
                  >
                  >
                  > In a message dated 2/24/2005 2:18:12 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
                  > shortlid@j... writes:
                  >
                  >
                  > > > etc.
                  > >
                  > > All my livebearers were bullies gave them away. gourami's got
                  this
                  > > weid swim upside down at hyper speed problem! got a ranibow he
                  chases
                  > > to much, tetras and barbs are to boring. I have heard that red
                  > > tailed sharks are very big bullies and bottom dwellers?
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8797 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/28/2005
                  Subject: (Want something diff) Shell Dwellers
                  Shell Dweller... are small fish from lake Tanganyika that use Giant snail shells to breed in. The Fish in refrence usually grow between 2" and 5 " depending on species.
                  They exibit great personalities and can be very fun to watch.

                  Where to find them: A lot of LFS do not carry them.  In my area we have approx 15 LFS in a 30 mile radius and only 1 of them carry any of the shell dwellers, so you might have to look a little harder. A lot of hobbyist raise these fish because they are small and can fit in a smaller tank.

                  I Highly recommend reading  Desktop Cichlids: Basic Shell-Dweller Care & Behavior
                  http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/shellweb/shell_species.htm

                  and then from this page link over to the Species and images to see some of the fish  considered Shell Dwellers.

                  If you do a google image search of the following species you will see a few diffrent pics of each I'd hope:

                  Neolamprologus boulengeri
                  Neolamprologus brevis*
                  Neolamprologus calliurus
                  Neolamprologus hecqui
                  Neolamprologus multifasciatus*
                  Neolamprologus similus*
                  Lamprologus callipterus
                  Lamprologus caudopunctatus
                  (Shell-Spawner)*
                  Lamprologus kungweensis
                  Lamprologus meleagris*
                  Lamprologus occelatus*
                  Lamprologus ornatipinnis*
                  Lamprologus signatus*
                  Lamprologus speciosus*



                  rob
                  NE Indiana
                  USA








                  In a message dated 2/28/2005 11:34:23 AM US Eastern Standard Time, shortlid@... writes:


                  What is a shell sweller? Where can I get dwarf Ciclids??  Can they be
                  put in a community tank?




                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8798 From: joequality1980 Date: 2/28/2005
                  Subject: Re: fish species
                  what are the most valuable fish species in all countries?
                  And then how to catch them? not sure what you are trying to
                  accomplish... You do realize that there are hundreds of countries on
                  this planet. I suggest getting an encyclopedia, a fishing pole, a
                  net, a private jet, and lot of cash to finance this colossal
                  expedition

                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mfathim78" <mfathim78@y...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > dear all
                  > i need to know what is the valuable fish species present in each
                  > countries
                  > pleases send me the name of fish species and how can get it and
                  its
                  > characteries
                  >
                  > thaks for your help
                  > Mohamed fathi
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8799 From: joequality1980 Date: 2/28/2005
                  Subject: Re: (Want something diff) Shell Dwellers
                  I have a pair of N. hecqui's I got from some random person on
                  craigslist (in los angeles). I've had them for 6 months (since they
                  were fry), and now they are a little over 2 inches. Despite being
                  small, they are quite territorial in defending the area around their
                  shells. I wouldnt put them in a community tank unless it's a big
                  tank; they are in a small tank but there neighbors are similarly-
                  sized African cichlids. It's definitely an interesting tank to watch

                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, FortWayneFish@a... wrote:
                  > Shell Dweller... are small fish from lake Tanganyika that use
                  Giant snail
                  > shells to breed in. The Fish in refrence usually grow between 2"
                  and 5 "
                  > depending on species.
                  > They exibit great personalities and can be very fun to watch.
                  >
                  > Where to find them: A lot of LFS do not carry them. In my area we
                  have
                  > approx 15 LFS in a 30 mile radius and only 1 of them carry any of
                  the shell
                  > dwellers, so you might have to look a little harder. A lot of
                  hobbyist raise these
                  > fish because they are small and can fit in a smaller tank.
                  >
                  > I Highly recommend reading Desktop Cichlids: Basic Shell-Dweller
                  Care &
                  > Behavior
                  > http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/shellweb/shell_species.htm
                  >
                  > and then from this page link over to the Species and images to see
                  some of
                  > the fish considered Shell Dwellers.
                  >
                  > If you do a google image search of the following species you will
                  see a few
                  > diffrent pics of each I'd hope:
                  >
                  > Neolamprologus boulengeri
                  > Neolamprologus brevis*
                  > Neolamprologus calliurus
                  > Neolamprologus hecqui
                  > Neolamprologus multifasciatus*
                  > Neolamprologus similus*
                  > Lamprologus callipterus
                  > Lamprologus caudopunctatus (Shell-Spawner)*
                  > Lamprologus kungweensis
                  > Lamprologus meleagris*
                  > Lamprologus occelatus*
                  > Lamprologus ornatipinnis*
                  > Lamprologus signatus*
                  > Lamprologus speciosus*
                  >
                  >
                  > rob
                  > NE Indiana
                  > USA
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > In a message dated 2/28/2005 11:34:23 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
                  > shortlid@j... writes:
                  >
                  >
                  > > What is a shell sweller? Where can I get dwarf Ciclids?? Can
                  they be
                  > > put in a community tank?
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8800 From: Aaron Date: 2/28/2005
                  Subject: Re: Request
                  Hi All,

                  I have modified the Footer by adding a suggestion similar to the
                  request in this post. This may seem bothersome to some, but it is
                  just a reminder to try and help the rest of us remember to "trim"
                  the posts before sending the reply.

                  It is a simple matter of cutting out the excess text that builds up
                  after the original post is replied to many times.

                  I am open to any further suggestions.

                  Thanks for all of your continued support and active participation,
                  Aaron

                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                  <patrickmn1@h...> wrote:
                  > While I understand your problem, if we all quit putting the post
                  we are
                  > replying to, those of us who do not use digest would have trouble
                  keeping up
                  > with who is answering who. So the question is, who do you make
                  happy and
                  > who do you make mad? Is this a paradox? :)
                  >
                  > Patrick
                  > -------Original Message-------
                  > When people are replying to msg's is there any way that you can
                  delete out
                  > the non-pertinent information from the post you are replying to?
                  For those
                  > of us who are on digest is is a lot to scroll through if there are
                  3 or four
                  > msg's attached to the end of each msg! Half the time I can't pick
                  out the
                  > new from the old and delete the whole digest.
                  >
                  > It only takes a few seconds and would be greatly appreciated!
                  >
                  > Thanks!
                  > Carly
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8801 From: Aaron Date: 2/28/2005
                  Subject: Re: Digest Number 625 CUT & PASTE/COPY $ PASTE
                  yes, a great example of why trimming the posts is necessary


                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, DB1RDMAN@W... wrote:
                  > Patrick;
                  >
                  > A good case in point. Tell me why it was necessary to repost the
                  following:
                  >
                  > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                  thanks
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                  thanks
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                  thanks
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                  thanks
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                  >
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                  >
                  >
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                  > etflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075> click here
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                  > [This message contained attachments]
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8802 From: Aaron Date: 2/28/2005
                  Subject: Re: Request.
                  thank you for helping inform the group, I am hoping most members
                  were simply unaware of the issue at hand and will now be conscience
                  of the matter, as for those who just did not care - hopefully they
                  will take notice and help out the rest of us.

                  --- original post
                  >.. "trim" ... I did *not* say to delete the whole msg, just the
                  bits like the part that says "please delete this line" and all the
                  yahoo (ads), headers, footers etc.

                  -> actually this is general netequitte, <-

                  ... "trim"...I agree, some of the msg needs to be left so that you
                  have a clue what is being replied to, but not all of it!
                  >
                  ... 'trim' ...I am sure i am not the only one that gets tired of
                  scrolling down through useless lines of digests.

                  > > Message: 2
                  > > Subject: Request
                  > >
                  > > When people are replying to msg's is there any way that you can
                  > > delete out the non-pertinent information from the post you are
                  > > replying to? For those of us who are on digest is is a lot to
                  > > scroll through if there are 3 or four msg's attached to the end
                  > > of each msg!
                  > > It only takes a few seconds and would be greatly appreciated!
                  > >
                  > > Thanks!
                  > > Carly

                  > > Message: 8
                  > > Subject: Re: Request
                  > >
                  > > While I understand your problem, if we all quit putting the post
                  > > we are replying to, those of us who do not use digest would have
                  > > trouble keeping up
                  > > with who is answering who. So the question is, who do you make
                  > > happy and
                  > > who do you make mad? Is this a paradox? :)
                  > > Patrick
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8803 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 2/28/2005
                  Subject: Re: fish species
                      Try fishbase.com, I think they list all fish and you can search by country.  I don't think they tell where you can buy them, but it lists where the fish comes from and characteristics of them.
                   
                  Patrick

                  dear all
                  i need to know what is the valuable fish species present in each countries pleases send me the name of fish species and how can get it and its characteries thaks
                  for your help 
                  Mohamed fathi
                  Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8804 From: antonios75@yahoo.com Date: 2/28/2005
                  Subject: Tank of the month, March
                  Check out Member tank of the month for march on ReefGossip.com
                  Mike Morrison's Reef Aquarium.


                  http://www.reefgossip.com/TankOfTheMonthMarch05.htm
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8805 From: Anne Date: 2/28/2005
                  Subject: best for cories?
                  Hi, I've been trying to find what is the best
                  gravel/sand/marbles/whatever bottom for cories. I have
                  4 in an aquarium with a sand bottom. I like the
                  looks-usually- and the cories seem to enjoy scratching
                  about in the sand, but it does cloud up when they
                  chase each other. Any suggestions?
                  Should I mix the sand with gravel? Thanks

                  Anne

                  PS Nims- your tank is beautiful!



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                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8806 From: Anne Date: 2/28/2005
                  Subject: Re: new here
                  Hi Beckee, Welcome to the group. There's a good
                  article about sexing live bearers at

                  http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewforum&f=77&sid=bcdd1740b45bff6ec0e9fb02d8f68591
                  just cut and paste the link (I hope it works)
                  Good luck with your tank.
                  Anne

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                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8807 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 2/28/2005
                  Subject: Re: best for cories?

                  Cory's, are constantly turning and sifting through the particles of sand/gravel looking for food. Because of this a small sand/gravel that is not sharp is needed.
                  A Large pea gravel is no good as They are  boulders to the cory cats, and of course we know boulders are hard to move without hands :-)

                  Hope this answers your question: as far as sand clouding up  you can add some small gravel as long as its not sharp or abrasive.



                  rob
                  NE Indiana
                  USA












                  In a message dated 3/1/2005 1:43:00 AM US Eastern Standard Time, md_gustoby@... writes:



                  Hi,  I've been trying to find what is the best
                  gravel/sand/marbles/whatever bottom for cories. I have
                  4 in an aquarium with a sand bottom. I like the
                  looks-usually- and the cories seem to enjoy scratching
                  about in the sand, but it does cloud up when they
                  chase each other. Any suggestions?
                  Should I mix the sand with gravel? Thanks

                  Anne



                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8808 From: harry perry Date: 3/1/2005
                  Subject: Re: Tank of the month, March/ beautiful!!!!
                  Fantastic!!!!!  At least $3000.00

                  antonios75@... wrote:

                  Check out Member tank of the month for march on ReefGossip.com
                  Mike Morrison's Reef Aquarium.


                  http://www.reefgossip.com/TankOfTheMonthMarch05.htm



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                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8809 From: paul helms Date: 3/1/2005
                  Subject: Re: Tank of the month, March/ beautiful!!!!
                  interesting to have a copper banded butterfly in with
                  coral and pollyps....since they do munch on them
                  --- harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:

                  > Fantastic!!!!! At least $3000.00
                  >
                  > antonios75@... wrote:
                  > Check out Member tank of the month for march on
                  > ReefGossip.com
                  > Mike Morrison's Reef Aquarium.
                  >
                  >
                  > http://www.reefgossip.com/TankOfTheMonthMarch05.htm
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                  >
                  >
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                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
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                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8810 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/1/2005
                  Subject: HELP - Shark tail fin red color
                  Hi,

                  Several weeks ago I got two new sharks for my tank (now total of 3).

                  One of them now has a red tail fin comming from where the 'skin'
                  meets the fin. Also on its front fins each also has a red mark. It
                  looks like the 'bones' of the fin are also red.

                  Compaired to the other two sharks it seems to swim a lot more pacing
                  the tank (4ft x 2.5ft x 18in - 300 liters ish)


                  Can you get bala sharks with red fins and tails? or is it sick. Its
                  been like this for about a week now, the other two seem perfectly
                  fine.
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8811 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/1/2005
                  Subject: Re: HELP - Shark tail fin red color
                  After searching for pics on the net it could be a Red-Fined Cigar
                  Shark (http://www.aquafriend.com/modules.php?
                  op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=39)

                  Its looks just like a bala shark except it has red tail 'bones' and
                  the flesh of the tail is turning red.


                  DOES ANY ONE HAVE ONE OF THESE?

                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas J. Munro" <nedarg@h...>
                  > One of them now has a red tail fin comming from where the 'skin'
                  > meets the fin. Also on its front fins each also has a red mark. It
                  > looks like the 'bones' of the fin are also red.
                  >
                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8812 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/1/2005
                  Subject: Re: HELP - Shark tail fin red color
                  Attachments :
                    Hmmm looks like a Bala shark but has red fins:  sounds like a TinFoil Barb (
                    BARBODES SCHWANENFELDI) to me: 


                    Of course it might be something else

                    rob
                    NE Indiana



                    In a message dated 3/1/2005 6:31:02 AM US Eastern Standard Time, nedarg@hotmail.com writes:


                    Can you get bala sharks with red fins and tails?


                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 8813 From: Anne Date: 3/1/2005
                    Subject: Re: best for cories?
                    "Cory's, are constantly turning and sifting through
                    the particles of sand/gravel looking for food. Because
                    of this a small sand/gravel that is not sharp is
                    needed."

                    Thanks so much. I'm using a mixture of swimming pool
                    sand (silca) and reg. play sand? Maybe I'll put more
                    play sand, it's finer - the silca seems to leave puffs
                    of orangish water whenever it's distrubed even though
                    it's clean, prewashed sand.
                    Thanks again
                    Anne


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                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 8814 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/1/2005
                    Subject: Re: best for cories?
                    I like Playsand from Lowes or Home Depot costs $4 for a 50 pound bag..As the swimming pool sand was $18 for a 25 pound bag.

                    I use about 1/4" of sand that way the cories can root all the way down to the glass, keeping the sand turned. The price of the sand makes it  easy to replace the sand I loose while vaccuming the tank.
                    I usually have to add sand every 6 months or so but that tends to be easy. Turn off filters take handful and place it where you want it. Don't drop it in as it will cloud , but by placing it where you want it , the cloudiness stays to a mininum. Turn filters back on after 5 minutes or so this way the sand particles have a chance to settle.

                    I have a tank( 15 gallons ) where I have eco-complete substrate and sand mixed together that I grow live plants in. Right now I am experiemnting with CO2 and my PH levels are up and down so no fish are in the tank at the moment. Once I get done playing I plan on adding 2 female and 4 male C. ambiacus so maybe this summer I can get them to spawn.

                    Rob
                    NE Indiana
                    17 species of Cories and adding




                    In a message dated 3/1/2005 12:16:39 PM US Eastern Standard Time, md_gustoby@... writes:


                    Thanks so much. I'm using a mixture of swimming pool
                    sand (silca) and reg. play sand? Maybe I'll put more
                    play sand, it's finer - the silca seems to leave puffs
                    of orangish water whenever it's distrubed even though
                    it's clean, prewashed sand.
                    Thanks again
                    Anne




                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 8815 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/1/2005
                    Subject: New Tank

                    Well, I got a good deal on an already cycled 29 gallon tank with one Tanganykan cichlid in it.  The fish is pretty big, about 3 1/2 inches.  What should I do - add more fish or just leave it as is for awhile?  My community tank continues to have high nitrates.  I changed out 4 (out of 20) gallons of water yesterday.  The fish seem fine, as do the plants.  How many water changes are too many at this point?  I really don't want the nitrates to get too high.  The ammonia and nitrites are still 0.

                    Thanks,

                    Angela

                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 8816 From: Rosahoic Date: 3/1/2005
                    Subject: Freeze Dried Bloodworms...
                    Hi everyone,

                    I'm new to the group, and have a question about bloodworms. Generally
                    live Tubiflex and Bloodworms have been easy for me to acquire from a
                    local pet store. However they just went out of business. Will my
                    Elephant noses eat the dried bloodworms? What about the frozen
                    bloodworms? Which would be best, or does it matter? Will they eat
                    both?

                    --
                    Chat with you later,
                    Alan
                    --
                    Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                    http://www.GardenersCorner.com
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                    *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and
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                    http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/
                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 8817 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/1/2005
                    Subject: Re: new here
                    Anne,

                    To shorten URLs, go to http://www.tinyurl.com    

                    Cheers,

                    Laura Garcia

                    Anne wrote:
                    Hi Beckee, Welcome to the group.  There's a good
                    article about sexing live bearers at

                    http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewforum&f=77&sid=bcdd1740b45bff6ec0e9fb02d8f68591
                    just cut and paste the link (I hope it works)
                    Good luck with your tank.
                    Anne

                     


                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 8818 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 3/1/2005
                    Subject: Re: New Tank
                    Attachments :
                      HI Angela,
                       
                      The african fish are great!  Smart and beautiful.  Their downside is they are very agressive.  If you add other fish into the tank - be sure to rearrange the decor, add new things to it, etc - basically this removes the existing fishes "territory" and starts everyone off from scratch.  Do you know what kind of fish you have? 
                       
                      Here's a great website that has cichlid info:   www.cichlid-forum.com  lots of pictures of fish.
                       
                      As a heads up - the africans need a high PH to their water - at least 8.0 and up.  Many are also vegetarians - and if fed food high in proteins will have intestinal blockage (and die).  Spirulina is a good food to use until you find out exactly what kind of fish you have.  Meat eaters will be ok with it - even though it's not necessarily optimal - and the vegians will do fine.
                       
                      Here's a few of my favorite Africans from my tank:
                       
                       
                       
                      These guys are Malawi Peacocks - awesome fish....
                       
                       
                      This one is from Tang.  A Neolamprologus tretocephalus
                       
                       
                      Another Tang. - a Daffodil
                       
                       
                      Two more from Tang - a daffodil (in the front) and a Black Calvus in the back - sorry the pictures not so good.
                       
                       
                      This little guy is also from Tang.  A frontosa - will be 8-12 inches when grown and get much darker. Will look more like the below (which is not my fish)
                       
                       
                      Here's my full tank
                       
                       
                      Enjoy the africans - they are a blast!  A good African community fish to look at is a Yellow Lab - easy to find, hardy, good community fish, spawns easily, etc.
                       
                      Al Gleason
                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 8819 From: Anne Date: 3/1/2005
                      Subject: tiny url
                      "Anne,
                      To shorten URLs, go to http://www.tinyurl.com
                      Cheers,"

                      Thanks so much Laura. I've bookmarked that site and
                      will be using it ALOT! I do alot of genealogy and some
                      of those sites are really, really long!
                      Anne



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                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 8820 From: Anne Date: 3/1/2005
                      Subject: Re: best for cories
                      "I have a tank( 15 gallons ) where I have eco-complete
                      substrate and sand mixed together that I grow live
                      plants in. Right now I am experiemnting with CO2 and
                      my PH levels are up and down so no fish are in the
                      tank at the moment. Once I get done playing I plan on
                      adding 2 female and 4 male C. ambiacus so maybe this
                      summer I can get them to spawn"

                      Good luck with the spawning. I think cories are one of
                      the funniest fish to watch. So playful. I really enjoy
                      them. I started out with a beta in a 10gal, wanted to
                      add something so I settled on 2 cories. I had 3 in the
                      other tank but one died (unknown causes) and since the
                      ones with the beta seemed to enjoy the sand so much, I
                      put the other 2 in with them.
                      The beta keeps them jumping but I've never seen him
                      attack them. Just chase.
                      It could be I have the sand to thick in the tank. I'm
                      going to take out as much of the swimming pool sand
                      that I can and add a little more play sand. Thanks for
                      the idea.
                      Anne



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                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 8821 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/1/2005
                      Subject: Re: New Tank
                      Thanks for the pictures.   They're beautiful.  I have no idea what kind this fish is.  Right now she spends a lot of time behind some rocks.  Thanks for the advice about rearranging the tank when adding new fish.
                       
                      -------------- Original message --------------
                      HI Angela,
                       
                      The african fish are great!  Smart and beautiful.  Their downside is they are very agressive.  If you add other fish into the tank - be sure to rearrange the decor, add new things to it, etc - basically this removes the existing fishes "territory" and starts everyone off from scratch.  Do you know what kind of fish you have? 
                       
                      Here's a great website that has cichlid info:   www.cichlid-forum.com  lots of pictures of fish.
                       
                      As a heads up - the africans need a high PH to their water - at least 8.0 and up.  Many are also vegetarians - and if fed food high in proteins will have intestinal blockage (and die).  Spirulina is a good food to use until you find out exactly what kind of fish you have.  Meat eaters will be ok with it - even though it's not necessarily optimal - and the vegians will do fine.
                       
                      Here's a few of my favorite Africans from my tank:
                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 8822 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/1/2005
                      Subject: Re: New Tank

                      Angela,

                       

                      What does the fish look like? Can you describe it? Tanganyikan cichlids are usually a bit aggressive and depending on species can be less or more aggressive. Julidichromis species top the aggression chart in tanganyikans followed closely by lamprologus and tropheus and then neolamprologus. Cyphotilapia are the ones that grow big (usually bigger then the rest which stay at 4-6”) but are not very aggressive. Many more species exist so we need to know which one is it exactly before suggesting anything about it. If you have a frontosa in a 29 gallon tank, then you need to get rid of the frontosa as it may grow as big as the tank itself. Many Lamprologus and neolamprologus are usually nuclear family cichlids and can do good in groups and if they breed, return the remaining and wait to see a nuclear family develop.

                       

                      Nim

                       


                      From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
                      Sent: 01 March 2005 19:39
                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [AquaticLife] New Tank

                       

                      Well, I got a good deal on an already cycled 29 gallon tank with one Tanganykan cichlid in it.  The fish is pretty big, about 3 1/2 inches.  What should I do - add more fish or just leave it as is for awhile?  My community tank continues to have high nitrates.  I changed out 4 (out of 20) gallons of water yesterday.  The fish seem fine, as do the plants.  How many water changes are too many at this point?  I really don't want the nitrates to get too high.  The ammonia and nitrites are still 0.

                      Thanks,

                      Angela



                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                      .
                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 8823 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/1/2005
                      Subject: Re: New Tank - Cichlid
                      Ok, here goes.  I've taken some pictures, but the fish is a bit stressed at this time, due to the move, I'm sure.  I'll keep trying to get a really good picture, but here are two that might work.  Thanks for your help.  I've ordered a book on Tanganykan Cichlids, maybe that will help me.  The guy I got the tank from recommended it.  He was very  helpful.
                       
                      Thanks,
                      Angela
                       
                       
                      -------------- Original message --------------

                      Angela,

                       

                      What does the fish look like? Can you describe it?

                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 8824 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 3/1/2005
                      Subject: Re: Freeze Dried Bloodworms...
                      Alan,  Frozen bloodworms are the next closest thing to live bloodworms, except that they're not moving.  Your elephant  nose is more apt to go for the frozen rather than the freeze dried.  Try a good brand like Hikari for best nutrition, and results as far as the fish going for it.  Ray
                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 8825 From: Steve Date: 3/1/2005
                      Subject: Re: tiny url
                      Anne,

                      If you use Firefox, the TinyURL capability can be added with an extension.
                      It does come in handy.

                      \\Steve//

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Anne [mailto:md_gustoby@...]
                      Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 3:36 PM
                      To: AquaticLife
                      Subject: [AquaticLife] tiny url



                      "Anne,
                      To shorten URLs, go to http://www.tinyurl.com
                      Cheers,"

                      Thanks so much Laura. I've bookmarked that site and
                      will be using it ALOT! I do alot of genealogy and some
                      of those sites are really, really long!
                      Anne



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                      Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
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                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                      .
                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                      the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                      subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                      in Advance for your help in this matter
                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 8826 From: Kevin Teague Date: 3/1/2005
                      Subject: Re: Tiger barbs swimming nose down

                      Since Sunday night my ammonia has been at 0.25 and my nitrites have been at 0.25.  PH is 7.3 and temp. is 77 degrees.  I have done three water changes of 25% each within that time.  The readings are still the same.  Three of the tiger barbs are now swimming in place in a back corner of the tank and hovering just off the bottom.  Three other tiger barbs, 4 gold barbs, and 1 blue gourami are acting perfectly fine.  I thought that even though the readings were low, the tiger barbs maybe not like it, so I did those water changes and started adding Prime to the water.  It hasn’t helped the 3 tigers at all.  One of the three tiger barbs looks as though it has something wrong with one of its eyes.  Obviously fish have no eye lids, but it looks as if an eye lid has swollen and is covering half his eye.  He is showing the most ill effects.

                      Any suggestions?

                      Thanks,

                      Kevin


                      From: Patrick, American Fish Guy [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
                      Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 11:57 PM
                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tiger barbs swimming nose down

                       

                          They are probably just feeling the ammonia that is gone now and the nitrites.  They should be gone by tomorrow evening at that rate (either the nitrites or the fish, we will hope for it being the nitrites).  When bio spira works, it sure works fast! :)

                       

                      Patrick, the American Fish Guy

                      -------Original Message-------

                      I recently started a 29 gallon tank.  I let it run for a couple days to get the temperature settled, then went the Bio-Spira route by
                      adding it and my fish on Saturday. The barbs had been doing great, zipping around the tank like tigers do.  They looked perfectly happy today as well.  This evening, however, several of them started swimming with their nose pointed at the bottom of the tank.  I
                      immediately checked my water conditions.  Ammonia is at 0, Nitrites at 0.25, and barely any Nitrates. Temperature is at 77 degrees.  This does not look bad to me, so I'm wondering what the problem is or if this is a normal behavior.
                      Any suggestions? Thanks, Kevin

                       

                       

                       

                       

                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 8827 From: Lauri Date: 3/1/2005
                      Subject: Re: HELP - Shark tail fin red color
                      Hi Nicolas,

                      I looked at the picture on your link, and it does appear a bit similiar to
                      the Maroon Shark - also called a Pink-Tailed Golden Shark
                      Leptobarbus hoeveni

                      http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/cyprinids_stats/stats_cyprinids2g.html

                      mine is about 5" now.

                      Mine also paces the tank back and forth, constantly - sometimes it does this
                      jittery-wiggle for a moment too, in mid stride. Also, mine doesn't hang at
                      all with
                      my 2 Bala's, he seems to be a faster swimmer and more active than they.

                      The Leptobarbus hoeveni is capable of reaching 20".

                      So, if yours has the black line of scales running along the middle of the
                      body
                      down it's length, then yours might be the Maroon Shark.

                      Lauri T
                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 8828 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/1/2005
                      Subject: Re: New Tank - Cichlid
                      Attachments :

                        Now that does not look like a Tanganyikan to me. Its got more features of a Malawi mbuna melanochromis species. Can you take a better bigger picture?

                         

                        Nim

                         

                         


                        From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net [mailto:angelasjenkins@comcast.net]
                        Sent: 01 March 2005 23:24
                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Tank - Cichlid

                         

                        Ok, here goes.  I've taken some pictures, but the fish is a bit stressed at this time, due to the move, I'm sure.  I'll keep trying to get a really good picture, but here are two that might work.  Thanks for your help.  I've ordered a book on Tanganykan Cichlids, maybe that will help me.  The guy I got the tank from recommended it.  He was very  helpful.

                         

                        Thanks,

                        Angela

                         

                         

                        -------------- Original message --------------

                        Angela,

                         

                        What does the fish look like? Can you describe it?

                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8829 From: paul helms Date: 3/1/2005
                        Subject: Re: Tiger barbs swimming nose down
                        .25 of nitrite and of ammonia are not low, they should
                        be 0! and it sounds like the fish has a bacterial
                        infection on the eye do to poor water conditions. if
                        your tank is less than 2 months old, it shoul dnot
                        have that many fish yet. it takes 4-6 weeks to cycle
                        a tank if you keep less than 20% of teh amount of fish
                        you plan on keeping duringh that time. yet more proof
                        that bio spira doe snot have a tank ready to cycle
                        instantly.
                        --- Kevin Teague <lists@...> wrote:

                        > Since Sunday night my ammonia has been at 0.25 and
                        > my nitrites have been at
                        > 0.25. PH is 7.3 and temp. is 77 degrees. I have
                        > done three water changes
                        > of 25% each within that time. The readings are
                        > still the same. Three of
                        > the tiger barbs are now swimming in place in a back
                        > corner of the tank and
                        > hovering just off the bottom. Three other tiger
                        > barbs, 4 gold barbs, and 1
                        > blue gourami are acting perfectly fine. I thought
                        > that even though the
                        > readings were low, the tiger barbs maybe not like
                        > it, so I did those water
                        > changes and started adding Prime to the water. It
                        > hasn't helped the 3
                        > tigers at all. One of the three tiger barbs looks
                        > as though it has
                        > something wrong with one of its eyes. Obviously
                        > fish have no eye lids, but
                        > it looks as if an eye lid has swollen and is
                        > covering half his eye. He is
                        > showing the most ill effects.
                        >
                        > Any suggestions?
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        >
                        > Kevin
                        >
                        > _____
                        >
                        > From: Patrick, American Fish Guy
                        > [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
                        > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 11:57 PM
                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tiger barbs swimming nose
                        > down
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > They are probably just feeling the ammonia that
                        > is gone now and the
                        > nitrites. They should be gone by tomorrow evening
                        > at that rate (either the
                        > nitrites or the fish, we will hope for it being the
                        > nitrites). When bio
                        > spira works, it sure works fast! :)
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
                        >
                        > -------Original Message-------
                        >
                        > I recently started a 29 gallon tank. I let it run
                        > for a couple days to get
                        > the temperature settled, then went the Bio-Spira
                        > route by
                        > adding it and my fish on Saturday. The barbs had
                        > been doing great, zipping
                        > around the tank like tigers do. They looked
                        > perfectly happy today as well.
                        > This evening, however, several of them started
                        > swimming with their nose
                        > pointed at the bottom of the tank. I
                        > immediately checked my water conditions. Ammonia is
                        > at 0, Nitrites at 0.25,
                        > and barely any Nitrates. Temperature is at 77
                        > degrees. This does not look
                        > bad to me, so I'm wondering what the problem is or
                        > if this is a normal
                        > behavior.
                        > Any suggestions? Thanks, Kevin
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >




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                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8830 From: paul helms Date: 3/1/2005
                        Subject: Re: Freeze Dried Bloodworms...
                        make sure you do not overfeed with teh frozen blood
                        worms, which are better than freeze dried. the worms
                        are dead and will decay if not eaten, where live will
                        ive for months or longer in water and can be picked
                        out of the gravel over time.
                        paul
                        --- Rosahoic <rosaholic@...> wrote:

                        >
                        > Hi everyone,
                        >
                        > I'm new to the group, and have a question about
                        > bloodworms. Generally
                        > live Tubiflex and Bloodworms have been easy for me
                        > to acquire from a
                        > local pet store. However they just went out of
                        > business. Will my
                        > Elephant noses eat the dried bloodworms? What about
                        > the frozen
                        > bloodworms? Which would be best, or does it matter?
                        > Will they eat
                        > both?
                        >
                        > --
                        > Chat with you later,
                        > Alan
                        > --
                        > Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                        > http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                        > -----
                        > *** Five new gardening mail list now available on
                        > GardenersCorner.com.
                        > *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners',
                        > ArizonaGardeners', and
                        > AntiqueRoses
                        > *** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening
                        > list
                        > called "OutGardening".
                        > *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers
                        > can find your
                        > address.
                        > *** Check them out at:
                        >
                        > http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >




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                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8831 From: Kevin Teague Date: 3/1/2005
                        Subject: Re: Tiger barbs swimming nose down

                        Well, I have literally read hundreds of posts with people saying bio spira does work.  I didn’t use it immediately.  My tank was running for 4 days with one zebra danio in it before I decided to use it.  I did a water change, added the bio spira and then added the other fish.  I knew it would not work perfectly because of the 4 day head start the tank had.

                         

                        I realize that ammonia and nitrite should be 0, but I don’t think .25 is super bad.  It has held at that level for 3 days, which with a full fish load and 4 days cycle head start, makes me believe the bio spira is helping at least a little.  3 out of 11 fish are showing something wrong.  All the others appear happy.  I have also read all over the internet that Prime helps reduce the toxic part of ammonia and nitrite, so I assumed that would help the 3 laboring fish.  If their problems stem from the ammonia and nitrite, then I guess it doesn’t work.

                         

                        I suppose the only thing for me to do right now is continue with the water changes, continue to use Prime, and see how things go.  If I am way wrong on all this, please let me know.

                         

                        Kevin

                         


                        From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
                        Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 8:01 PM
                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tiger barbs swimming nose down

                         

                        .25 of nitrite and of ammonia are not low, they should
                        be 0!  and it sounds like the fish has a bacterial
                        infection on the eye do to poor water conditions.  if
                        your tank is less than 2 months old, it shoul dnot
                        have that many fish yet.  it takes 4-6 weeks to cycle
                        a tank if you keep less than 20% of teh amount of fish
                        you plan on keeping duringh that time.  yet more proof
                        that bio spira doe snot have a tank ready to cycle
                        instantly. 
                        --- Kevin Teague < lists@... > wrote:

                        > Since Sunday night my ammonia has been at 0.25 and
                        > my nitrites have been at
                        > 0.25.  PH is 7.3 and temp. is 77 degrees.  I have
                        > done three water changes
                        > of 25% each within that time.  The readings are
                        > still the same.  Three of
                        > the tiger barbs are now swimming in place in a back
                        > corner of the tank and
                        > hovering just off the bottom.  Three other tiger
                        > barbs, 4 gold barbs, and 1
                        > blue gourami are acting perfectly fine.  I thought
                        > that even though the
                        > readings were low, the tiger barbs maybe not like
                        > it, so I did those water
                        > changes and started adding Prime to the water.  It
                        > hasn't helped the 3
                        > tigers at all.  One of the three tiger barbs looks
                        > as though it has
                        > something wrong with one of its eyes.  Obviously
                        > fish have no eye lids, but
                        > it looks as if an eye lid has swollen and is
                        > covering half his eye.  He is
                        > showing the most ill effects.
                        >
                        > Any suggestions?
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        >
                        > Kevin
                        >
                        >   _____ 
                        >
                        > From: Patrick, American Fish Guy
                        > [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
                        > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 11:57 PM
                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tiger barbs swimming nose
                        > down
                        >

                        >
                        >
                        >     They are probably just feeling the ammonia that
                        > is gone now and the
                        > nitrites.  They should be gone by tomorrow evening
                        > at that rate (either the
                        > nitrites or the fish, we will hope for it being the
                        > nitrites).  When bio
                        > spira works, it sure works fast! :)
                        >

                        >
                        > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
                        >
                        > -------Original Message-------
                        >
                        > I recently started a 29 gallon tank.  I let it run
                        > for a couple days to get
                        > the temperature settled, then went the Bio-Spira
                        > route by
                        > adding it and my fish on Saturday. The barbs had
                        > been doing great, zipping
                        > around the tank like tigers do.  They looked
                        > perfectly happy today as well.
                        > This evening, however, several of them started
                        > swimming with their nose
                        > pointed at the bottom of the tank.  I
                        > immediately checked my water conditions.  Ammonia is
                        > at 0, Nitrites at 0.25,
                        > and barely any Nitrates. Temperature is at 77
                        > degrees.  This does not look
                        > bad to me, so I'm wondering what the problem is or
                        > if this is a normal
                        > behavior.
                        > Any suggestions? Thanks, Kevin
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >
                        >



                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8832 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/1/2005
                        Subject: Re: best for cories
                        I agree that they are extremely enjoyable to watch: I have a small
                        paleatus who thinks he's a top-feeding fish at meal times. I'll see
                        him swimming upside-down at the surface next to the other fish to
                        get food!
                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8833 From: paul helms Date: 3/1/2005
                        Subject: Re: Tiger barbs swimming nose down
                        if your ammonia is staying stable at .25, then taht
                        means taht there is a stable supply of ammonia going
                        into the tank, if biospira does what it is suppoesed
                        to that is. you may want to cut back on feeding and
                        use soemthing like melafix for teh fungal infection
                        before it becomes rampant to the already stressed fish

                        --- Kevin Teague <lists@...> wrote:

                        > Well, I have literally read hundreds of posts with
                        > people saying bio spira
                        > does work. I didn't use it immediately. My tank
                        > was running for 4 days
                        > with one zebra danio in it before I decided to use
                        > it. I did a water
                        > change, added the bio spira and then added the other
                        > fish. I knew it would
                        > not work perfectly because of the 4 day head start
                        > the tank had.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I realize that ammonia and nitrite should be 0, but
                        > I don't think .25 is
                        > super bad. It has held at that level for 3 days,
                        > which with a full fish
                        > load and 4 days cycle head start, makes me believe
                        > the bio spira is helping
                        > at least a little. 3 out of 11 fish are showing
                        > something wrong. All the
                        > others appear happy. I have also read all over the
                        > internet that Prime
                        > helps reduce the toxic part of ammonia and nitrite,
                        > so I assumed that would
                        > help the 3 laboring fish. If their problems stem
                        > from the ammonia and
                        > nitrite, then I guess it doesn't work.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I suppose the only thing for me to do right now is
                        > continue with the water
                        > changes, continue to use Prime, and see how things
                        > go. If I am way wrong on
                        > all this, please let me know.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Kevin
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > _____
                        >
                        > From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
                        > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 8:01 PM
                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tiger barbs swimming nose
                        > down
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > .25 of nitrite and of ammonia are not low, they
                        > should
                        > be 0! and it sounds like the fish has a bacterial
                        > infection on the eye do to poor water conditions.
                        > if
                        > your tank is less than 2 months old, it shoul dnot
                        > have that many fish yet. it takes 4-6 weeks to
                        > cycle
                        > a tank if you keep less than 20% of teh amount of
                        > fish
                        > you plan on keeping duringh that time. yet more
                        > proof
                        > that bio spira doe snot have a tank ready to cycle
                        > instantly.
                        > --- Kevin Teague <lists@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > Since Sunday night my ammonia has been at 0.25 and
                        > > my nitrites have been at
                        > > 0.25. PH is 7.3 and temp. is 77 degrees. I have
                        > > done three water changes
                        > > of 25% each within that time. The readings are
                        > > still the same. Three of
                        > > the tiger barbs are now swimming in place in a
                        > back
                        > > corner of the tank and
                        > > hovering just off the bottom. Three other tiger
                        > > barbs, 4 gold barbs, and 1
                        > > blue gourami are acting perfectly fine. I thought
                        > > that even though the
                        > > readings were low, the tiger barbs maybe not like
                        > > it, so I did those water
                        > > changes and started adding Prime to the water. It
                        > > hasn't helped the 3
                        > > tigers at all. One of the three tiger barbs looks
                        > > as though it has
                        > > something wrong with one of its eyes. Obviously
                        > > fish have no eye lids, but
                        > > it looks as if an eye lid has swollen and is
                        > > covering half his eye. He is
                        > > showing the most ill effects.
                        > >
                        > > Any suggestions?
                        > >
                        > > Thanks,
                        > >
                        > > Kevin
                        > >
                        > > _____
                        > >
                        > > From: Patrick, American Fish Guy
                        > > [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
                        > > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 11:57 PM
                        > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tiger barbs swimming
                        > nose
                        > > down
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > They are probably just feeling the ammonia
                        > that
                        > > is gone now and the
                        > > nitrites. They should be gone by tomorrow evening
                        > > at that rate (either the
                        > > nitrites or the fish, we will hope for it being
                        > the
                        > > nitrites). When bio
                        > > spira works, it sure works fast! :)
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
                        > >
                        > > -------Original Message-------
                        > >
                        > > I recently started a 29 gallon tank. I let it run
                        > > for a couple days to get
                        > > the temperature settled, then went the Bio-Spira
                        > > route by
                        > > adding it and my fish on Saturday. The barbs had
                        > > been doing great, zipping
                        > > around the tank like tigers do. They looked
                        > > perfectly happy today as well.
                        > > This evening, however, several of them started
                        > > swimming with their nose
                        > > pointed at the bottom of the tank. I
                        > > immediately checked my water conditions. Ammonia
                        > is
                        > > at 0, Nitrites at 0.25,
                        > > and barely any Nitrates. Temperature is at 77
                        > > degrees. This does not look
                        > > bad to me, so I'm wondering what the problem is or
                        > > if this is a normal
                        > > behavior.
                        > > Any suggestions? Thanks, Kevin
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >





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                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8834 From: paul helms Date: 3/1/2005
                        Subject: snail question
                        i am just wondering, for all the snail lovers out
                        there, how long does it usually take a mystery snail
                        to come out after a going into a new tank?




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                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8835 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 3/1/2005
                        Subject: Re: Fry with deformed tail???
                        Sorry I tried! Yes it has a top and bottom one longer and a v in the
                        middle. I'll have to wait till it grows up. and see for sure.
                        >
                        > Okay, That description presents a slightly different picture to the
                        > mind. I originally pictured two separate extensions (top & bottom)
                        > with a verticle gap in the middle of the tail. If the tail has a "V"
                        > notch, then yes, this sounds more like a lyretail, which is a
                        > recognized guppy strain
                        > also.
                        > \
                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, AJOgg@y... wrote:
                        week.
                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8836 From: Kevin Teague Date: 3/1/2005
                        Subject: Re: Tiger barbs swimming nose down

                        Something strange just happened.  I turned off the tank light and the all the barbs (except the one with the eye problem) went into hyper-active mode.  In fact, my two albino tigers seem to be fighting it out.  They’ve been going at each other like two put bulls bent on destruction for the past ten minutes and they haven’t stopped yet.  I know it may not be likely, but maybe the tiger with the bad eye got it damaged by one of the other tigers?  At the rate they’re going, I wouldn’t be surprised to find one of the albino’s dead in the morning.  Plus, why would turning off the light make a difference like that?  I have other lights on in the room.

                         

                        Confused,

                         

                        Kevin

                         


                        From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
                        Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 9:26 PM
                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tiger barbs swimming nose down

                         

                        if your ammonia is staying stable at .25, then taht
                        means taht there is a stable supply of ammonia going
                        into the tank, if biospira does what it is suppoesed
                        to that is.  you may want to cut back on feeding and
                        use soemthing like melafix for teh fungal infection
                        before it becomes rampant to the already stressed fish


                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8837 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 3/1/2005
                        Subject: Re: snail question
                        depends on how different the water perams are. If they are similar they
                        come out in less than a minute. If the ph is very different or the
                        nitrates are higher it could take hours.

                        Terri Bryant
                        www.RainbowSnails.com


                        > -------- Original Message --------
                        > Subject: [AquaticLife] snail question
                        > From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                        > Date: Tue, March 01, 2005 8:27 pm
                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > i am just wondering, for all the snail lovers out
                        > there, how long does it usually take a mystery snail
                        > to come out after a going into a new tank?
                        >
                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8838 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/2/2005
                        Subject: Re: New Tank - Cichlid
                        Here's another picture.  I'm sorry they're so blurry, but she's at the back of the tank.  She swims out front, but is too fast for me to catch with a camera.  Her tail has what look like stripes going across it.  Her colors are a blue/green and yellow on the belly.
                         
                        Thanks for your help identifying her.
                        Angela
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                        -------------- Original message --------------

                        Now that does not look like a Tanganyikan to me. Its got more features of a Malawi mbuna melanochromis species. Can you take a better bigger picture?

                         

                        Nim

                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8839 From: daniel_roachus Date: 3/2/2005
                        Subject: Re: New Tank, maybe
                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Julie" <jaramey@b...> wrote:
                        > We are thinking about getting a new tank, a 33 gallon long, and
                        putting my bala sharks (2) clown loaches (3) and possibly some small
                        schooling fish, maybe danios or tetras. I would like to set this up
                        planted from day one. If I do this, after the tank is cycled and
                        pretty stable, how long do I need to wait between additions.
                        Example, If I move the balas, how long should I wait before I can
                        move a loach or two? One week, two, three?? Thanks
                        > julie
                        > Cheyenne, Wyoming
                        > I am not a complete idiot. Some parts are missing.

                        If you 've got bala sharks and clown loaches, you'll be needing
                        bigger than 33 gals!
                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8840 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/2/2005
                        Subject: Re: New Tank - Cichlid
                        From comparing pictures on the internet, I think you may be right.  It looks like a Melanochromis auratus, or Malawi golden cichlid.  If that's the case, what do you suggest adding to it.  Or would you leave it alone?
                         
                        -------------- Original message --------------

                        Now that does not look like a Tanganyikan to me. Its got more features of a Malawi mbuna melanochromis species. Can you take a better bigger picture?

                         

                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8841 From: paul helms Date: 3/2/2005
                        Subject: Re: New Tank - Cichlid
                        from this pic it looks like an electric yellow or
                        bumble bee
                        --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

                        > Here's another picture. I'm sorry they're so
                        > blurry, but she's at the back of the tank. She
                        > swims out front, but is too fast for me to catch
                        > with a camera. Her tail has what look like stripes
                        > going across it. Her colors are a blue/green and
                        > yellow on the belly.
                        >
                        > Thanks for your help identifying her.
                        > Angela
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -------------- Original message --------------
                        >
                        > Now that does not look like a Tanganyikan to me. Its
                        > got more features of a Malawi mbuna melanochromis
                        > species. Can you take a better bigger picture?
                        >
                        > Nim





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                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8842 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/2/2005
                        Subject: Re: New Tank - Cichlid
                        Attachments :

                          Yep. That is a melanochromis auratus. Males are black to dark blue and females are yellow. If you have females. Then they are not very aggressive (still aggressive enough for most other fish) but males can be killers.

                           

                          You need to be careful what you put with them as anything that cannot fend for itself will be killed. Ideal candidates are: Most barbs, bigger rasboras, Danios (not long finned), fast tetras (not neons or relatives), most Rainbow fish, Other lake Malawi cichlids (you will need to heavily overstock the tank and post a new topic if you wish to proceed in this direction).

                           

                          Nim

                           

                           


                          From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net [mailto:angelasjenkins@comcast.net]
                          Sent: 02 March 2005 11:51
                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Tank - Cichlid

                           

                          Here's another picture.  I'm sorry they're so blurry, but she's at the back of the tank.  She swims out front, but is too fast for me to catch with a camera.  Her tail has what look like stripes going across it.  Her colors are a blue/green and yellow on the belly.

                           

                          Thanks for your help identifying her.

                          Angela

                           

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          -------------- Original message --------------

                          Now that does not look like a Tanganyikan to me. Its got more features of a Malawi mbuna melanochromis species. Can you take a better bigger picture?

                           

                          Nim

                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8843 From: Julie Date: 3/2/2005
                          Subject: Re: New Tank, maybe
                          I know. But I can't afford the larger one at the moment and the 33 long is
                          going cheap. The fish are currently about 3" to base of tail, so they are
                          doing ok for now, but I was wanting to get them more floor space. I am
                          saving for a larger tank.
                          julie
                          Cheyenne, Wyoming
                          I am not a complete idiot. Some parts are missing.
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "daniel_roachus" <daniel_roach@...>

                          If you 've got bala sharks and clown loaches, you'll be needing
                          > bigger than 33 gals!
                          >
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8844 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/2/2005
                          Subject: Re: New Tank - Cichlid

                          do a google image search for Melanochromis Auratus I'm sure you'll find your fish.
                          not a Lake tang fish... Actually a Mbuna from lake Malawi..

                          rob
                          NE Indiana








                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8845 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/2/2005
                          Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting, 3/5/2005, 6:30 pm
                          Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                          Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting

                          Saturday March 5, 2005
                          6:30 pm - 8:30 pm
                          This event repeats on the first Saturday of every month.

                          Event Location: MEETING LOCATION: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Ave., San Jose CA, USA
                          Street: MEETING LOCATION: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Ave.
                          City, State, Zip: San Jose, CA

                          Notes:
                          Silicon Valley Aquarium Society meetings are held the first Saturday of every month in San Jose. See http://www.svas.info for more information

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                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8846 From: Angela Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: Nitrates
                          My nitrates are still up, around 80. I changed 4 out of 20 gallons
                          on Monday. My ammonia and nitrites are 0. What should I do?

                          Angela
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8847 From: TankGurl Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates
                          On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:49:48 -0000, Angela <angelasjenkins@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > My nitrates are still up, around 80. I changed 4 out of 20 gallons
                          > on Monday. My ammonia and nitrites are 0. What should I do?

                          I'd do a 40% water change, wait a day or so, then do another 30%. 80
                          will kill your fish real soon if you don't bring it down.

                          Kelly
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8848 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates
                          I just changed 8 gallons.  Thanks for the advice.
                           
                          Angela
                           
                          -------------- Original message --------------
                          On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:49:48 -0000, Angela <angelasjenkins@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > My nitrates are still up, around 80.  I changed 4 out of 20 gallons
                          > on Monday.  My ammonia and nitrites are 0.  What should I do?

                          I'd do a 40% water change, wait a day or so, then do another 30%. 80
                          will kill your fish real soon if you don't bring it down.

                          Kelly


                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8849 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates

                          Angela,

                           

                          Your nitrates are moving very fast with such a low stock and low feeding. This is worrying me as to why they have reached so high so soon despite the fact that your tap water has zero nitrates.

                           

                          Changing 25% of the water will bring down 80ppm nitrates to 60ppm which the way it looks will rise to 80 again within 3-4 days. If you do a 50% water change (that is very large water change and not usually recommended), it will come down to 40ppm and raise to 80ppm again by the end of the week despite such good water. 80ppm does not kill your fish instantly, but long term exposure (months) will eventually have some effect on health and will also slow down their growth.

                           

                          Can you confirm again as to how much are you feeding and what intervals and what fish do you have in there now?

                           

                          I have over stocked tanks and tap water with 30ppm nitrates and my tanks usually remain at 50ppm at an average and once in 2 months I do a large water change of 60% which brings it all down to about 35-38ppm. This is a way over stocked tank with little plants, so I cannot give credit to plants for consuming so much nitrates. There is something wrong with your tap water. Can you also confirm as to what treatment your tap water receives from the suppliers. Chlorine or Chloramines? If Chloramines, then these could be eventually adding up to the Nitrates in the end.

                           

                          Nim

                           

                           


                          From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
                          Sent: 03 March 2005 15:30
                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates

                           

                          I just changed 8 gallons.  Thanks for the advice.

                           

                          Angela

                           

                          -------------- Original message --------------
                          On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:49:48 -0000, Angela <angelasjenkins@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > My nitrates are still up, around 80.  I changed 4 out of 20 gallons
                          > on Monday.  My ammonia and nitrites are 0.  What should I do?

                          I'd do a 40% water change, wait a day or so, then do another 30%. 80
                          will kill your fish real soon if you don't bring it down.

                          Kelly



                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                          .
                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8850 From: stahnke923 Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: khuli loaches doing poorly
                          I added 3 khuli loaches to my 20G long 3 days ago. It is an
                          established tank with 5 rasboras, 2 pearl gouramis, and 1 oto. The
                          loaches(at least the 2 I can find right now) are breathing rapidly and
                          not very responsive. The ph is 7.0 and the ammonia and nitrites are
                          both 0. I just added some shrimp pellets and they're not responding to
                          the food at all. What can I do to keep them alive?

                          Thanks in advance,
                          Scott
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8851 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates
                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Angela" <angelasjenkins@c...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > My nitrates are still up, around 80. I changed 4 out of 20 gallons
                          > on Monday. My ammonia and nitrites are 0. What should I do?
                          >
                          > Angela
                          >
                          >
                          __
                          __Besides changing the additional 8 gallons, which should now bring
                          your nitrates reading down to about 40, do you have live plants in
                          your tank? If you've already indicated this, sorry I guess I missed
                          it. But if you don't have plants, I'd advise you add some; plants
                          will "soak up" the excess nitrates and use it as food. If you
                          already have plants, you should consider adding more and/or increase
                          the lighting duration slightly. Also check you tap water for
                          nitrates; the problem may originate there. The larger water changes
                          should help. Your smaller water change of 4 gallons only decreased
                          the nitrates by diluting them by the amount of water changed -- 20%
                          (it brought the reading down to 64). Your additional 8 gallon water
                          change decreased these remaining nitrates by 40% (it brought the
                          reading down to 38.4). This is much better than it was -- at least
                          the fish should survive. Additional water changes along with the
                          presence of plants should make your tank much more habitable, unless
                          there's an unseen source of nitrates being added.
                          Ray
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8852 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates
                          I have:
                          2 dragon eels
                          2 cory catfish
                          4 zebra danios
                          3 flame or von rio tetras
                          3 guppies (just added yesterday, a friend was looking for a home for them)
                          2 frogs
                          large snail
                           
                          I also have several live plants.
                           
                          According to the website for my county's utilities department, they disinfect the drinking water using chlorine and chloramine.
                           
                          Should I add more plants?
                           
                          -------------- Original message --------------

                          Angela,

                           

                          Your nitrates are moving very fast with such a low stock and low feeding. This is worrying me as to why they have reached so high so soon despite the fact that your tap water has zero nitrates.

                           

                          Changing 25% of the water will bring down 80ppm nitrates to 60ppm which the way it looks will rise to 80 again within 3-4 days. If you do a 50% water change (that is very large water change and not usually recommended), it will come down to 40ppm and raise to 80ppm again by the end of the week despite such good water. 80ppm does not kill your fish instantly, but long term exposure (months) will eventually have some effect on health and will also slow down their growth.

                           

                          Can you confirm again as to how much are you feeding and what intervals and what fish do you have in there now?

                           

                          I have over stocked tanks and tap water with 30ppm nitrates and my tanks usually remain at 50ppm at an average and once in 2 months I do a large water change of 60% which brings it all down to about 35-38ppm. This is a way over stocked tank with little plants, so I cannot give credit to plants for consuming so much nitrates. There is something wrong with your tap water. Can you also confirm as to what treatment your tap water receives from the suppliers. Chlorine or Chloramines? If Chloramines, then these could be eventually adding up to the Nitrates in the end.

                           

                          Nim

                           

                           


                          From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
                          Sent: 03 March 2005 15:30
                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates

                           

                          I just changed 8 gallons.  Thanks for the advice.

                           

                          Angela

                           

                           
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8853 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: Re: khuli loaches doing poorly
                          I'd suggest 10-20% waterchange and keep the lights off for a few days. If you have plants limit the light times to mininum. This will hopefully give them a little freshwater, and some low light period for them to get adjusted.
                          Sounds like you have a wonderful tank and hopefully the Khuli's will snap out of it..



                          In a message dated 3/3/2005 11:46:57 AM US Eastern Standard Time, scott@... writes:



                          I added 3 khuli loaches to my 20G long 3 days ago. It is an
                          established tank with 5 rasboras, 2 pearl gouramis, and 1 oto. The
                          loaches(at least the 2 I can find right now) are breathing rapidly and
                          not very responsive. The ph is 7.0 and the ammonia and nitrites are
                          both 0. I just added some shrimp pellets and they're not responding to
                          the food at all. What can I do to keep them alive?

                          Thanks in advance,
                          Scott


                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8854 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates
                          Are you using any thing to rid the water of chlorine and chloramines? Chlorine will evaporate in a few days but Chloramines don't evaporate.
                          In such a small tank adding new fish right now would not be advisable.
                          Your tank even when cycled properely should have fish slowly added to it for the filteration and bacterias to keep up or catchup. If you where having problems with your water WHY add more fish...
                          It might be in your fishes best intrest to move some of them( guppies, snail, and frogs) to a large bowl or   to another tank a few days to let your tank deal with the Nitrates..
                          Less bio load maybe your tank will rebound faster......

                          rob
                          NE Indiana




                          __Besides changing the additional 8 gallons, which should now bring
                          your nitrates reading down to about 40, do you have live plants in
                          your tank?  If you've already indicated this, sorry I guess I missed
                          it. But if you don't have plants, I'd advise you add some; plants
                          will "soak up" the excess nitrates and use it as food.  If you
                          already have plants, you should consider adding more and/or increase
                          the lighting duration slightly.  Also check you tap water for
                          nitrates; the problem may originate there.  The larger water changes
                          should help.  Your smaller water change of 4 gallons only decreased
                          the nitrates by diluting them by the amount of water changed -- 20%
                          (it brought the reading down to 64).  Your additional 8 gallon water
                          change decreased these remaining nitrates by 40% (it brought the
                          reading down to 38.4).  This is much better than it was -- at least
                          the fish should survive.  Additional water changes along with the
                          presence of plants should make your tank much more habitable, unless
                          there's an unseen source of nitrates being added. 
                          Ray                                                                  
                              


                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8855 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates
                          I just tested the water in our new tank (already cycled and has a Malawi cichlid in it).  Ammonia and nitrites are 0, but the nitrates are off the chart, past 160 before waiting the 5 minutes.  The fish has been in there for 5 years and most of the water was replaced Monday night when the guy brought the tank.
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8856 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates
                          I've had all these fish for awhile, except the guppies.  I add chlorine/chloramine remover to any water added to the tank.
                           
                          -------------- Original message --------------
                          Are you using any thing to rid the water of chlorine and chloramines? Chlorine will evaporate in a few days but Chloramines don't evaporate.
                          In such a small tank adding new fish right now would not be advisable.
                          Your tank even when cycled properely should have fish slowly added to it for the filteration and bacterias to keep up or catchup. If you where having problems with your water WHY add more fish...
                          It might be in your fishes best intrest to move some of them( guppies, snail, and frogs) to a large bowl or   to another tank a few days to let your tank deal with the Nitrates..
                          Less bio load maybe your tank will rebound faster......

                          rob
                          NE Indiana



                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8857 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: Southern California societies?
                          I always see posts for SF Bay or Silicon Valley society meetings.
                          Does anyone know of any in the Greater Los Angeles Area?
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8858 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: Re: khuli loaches doing poorly
                          Why would you want to keep the lights off??? The idea is that you
                          want the plants to absorb as much of the nitrates as they possibly
                          can. This can only be accomplished through the photosynthesis
                          process of the plants, which will only occur with light.
                          \
                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, FortWayneFish@a... wrote:
                          > I'd suggest 10-20% waterchange and keep the lights off for a few
                          days. If you
                          > have plants limit the light times to mininum. This will hopefully
                          give them a
                          > little freshwater, and some low light period for them to get
                          adjusted.
                          > Sounds like you have a wonderful tank and hopefully the Khuli's
                          will snap out
                          > of it..
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > In a message dated 3/3/2005 11:46:57 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
                          > scott@c... writes:
                          >
                          >
                          > >
                          > > I added 3 khuli loaches to my 20G long 3 days ago. It is an
                          > > established tank with 5 rasboras, 2 pearl gouramis, and 1 oto. The
                          > > loaches(at least the 2 I can find right now) are breathing
                          rapidly and
                          > > not very responsive. The ph is 7.0 and the ammonia and nitrites
                          are
                          > > both 0. I just added some shrimp pellets and they're not
                          responding to
                          > > the food at all. What can I do to keep them alive?
                          > >
                          > > Thanks in advance,
                          > > Scott
                          > >
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8859 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: Re: Southern California societies?
                          <><><>I always see posts for SF Bay or Silicon Valley society meetings.
                          Does anyone know of any in the Greater Los Angeles Area?<><><>

                          Hi Joe,
                          I know there is one in your area, but the name escapes me at the moment. There is a California cichlid list on yahoogroups. The list owner posts the names of the So-Cal club monthly. California Cichlids 01 is the list name. You can probably email him to get the name of the clubs in your area. He also breeds, imports, and sells fish.

                          Mike in Nor-Cal
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8860 From: Steve Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates
                          While a nitrate reading of 80 may be of some concern, it is not the end of
                          the world. Most fish should survive it fine.

                          Things to consider, if you have not already. What is the nitrate reading of
                          your water straight from the tap? If it is high also, water changes will not
                          help.

                          Have you tested with another kit to have a comparison? It may be possible
                          that your kit is not giving you an accurate reading. If your tap water also
                          tests high, this would be high on my list of things to do--replace test kit.

                          You just did a 20% water change, presuming your tank is actually holding 20
                          gallons of water. You probably did a bit more than a 20% change, once you
                          account for the substrate, etc. taking up room in the tank, plus you don't
                          fill your tank to the tippy, tippy top. But for this calculation, let's
                          stick with 20%. This means you should have lowered your nitrate level to 64,
                          presuming your tap water does not contain any nitrates. If this did not
                          happen, there is something amiss. If there are nitrates in your tap water,
                          then you may not have brought the level down quite as much, but it should
                          have made a difference.

                          What can you do about nitrates? How can you lower the level?

                          First thing I would do is to look for decaying matter in tank. This does not
                          necessarily mean you have a dead fish in the tank, it could mean uneaten
                          food rotting away in a corner or a crevice, decaying matter in the
                          substrate, decaying plant parts. Look carefully for a source like this, and
                          clean your substrate as well as you can.

                          I saw elsewhere a mention of plants in your tank. Did you give them any
                          plant food? This may be a source of nitrates, particularly if the plant food
                          was not specifically formulated for aquarium use. If you do have live plants
                          in the tank, get them growing. They'll not remove the nitrate over night,
                          but healthy, growing plants will use available nitrates, unless they are
                          getting them from another source. if you need help with plants, visit the
                          AGA site, <http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org>. They have a number of
                          resources that may help you.

                          There are ways to remove nitrates with bacteria, as we do with ammonia and
                          nitrites, but it is rather difficult to do in a freshwater tank, and you do
                          need to provide anaerobic conditions for the bacteria to grow and use the
                          nitrate. Be careful should someone offer this as a way to resolve your
                          nitrate issues. Having said that, however, I just read an interesting
                          article, I think it was in AFM (Aquarium Fish Magazine), about using a form
                          of sulphur to remove nitrates. It seems to be working in marine tanks, but
                          whether it will transfer to freshwater remains to be seen.

                          How are you getting your readings? Are you reading a color from a chart
                          against a colored water sample, or are you using a test strip, or, perhaps a
                          meter? If you are using a water sample, the color could be off if the water
                          is anything but clear.

                          \\Steve//

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
                          Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 8:50 AM
                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrates




                          My nitrates are still up, around 80. I changed 4 out of 20 gallons
                          on Monday. My ammonia and nitrites are 0. What should I do?

                          Angela
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8861 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates
                              I agree with Steve.  You should probably get a different brand liquid nitrate test kit, or see if the fish store will test the water for you there, and see if you are getting a good test.
                           
                          Patrick
                          -------Original Message-------
                          I've had all these fish for awhile, except the guppies.  I add chlorine/chloramine remover to any water added to the tank.
                          Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8862 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: Re: khuli loaches doing poorly
                          I thaught we was talking Khuli loaches.... Since Khuli's are a nocturnal fish maybe low light or lights out would give them some time to get accustomed to the tank. The rapid breathing and not being responsive might be the stress of moving into a new tank with diffrent PH levels and or diffrent temperatures.
                          A few days with low light would give them some time to  explore and or find some hiding places. If the person would have said his nitrates where high I surely would have responded diffrently.( scroll to bottom of this email)

                          I understand Plants need light that is why I said maybe to keep the lights to a mininum  (lights on 12 hour timer maybe adjust them down a few hours so the loaches could have some extra time to adjust)


                          rob
                          Indiana

                          ~~~
                          Why would you want to keep the lights off???  The idea is that you
                          want the plants to absorb as much of the nitrates as they possibly
                          can.  This can only be accomplished through the photosynthesis
                          process of the plants, which will only occur with light.            

                          ~~~
                          > I added 3 khuli loaches to my 20G long 3 days ago. It is an
                          > > established tank with 5 rasboras, 2 pearl gouramis, and 1 oto. The
                          > > loaches(at least the 2 I can find right now) are breathing
                          rapidly and
                          > > not very responsive. The ph is 7.0 and the ammonia and nitrites
                          are
                          > > both 0.
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8863 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: Re: Southern California societies?
                          Ok this list has not been updated in awhile and may contain broken links or invalid mailing addresses

                          Greater Los Angeles Aquarium Society 9846 McBroom Street, Shadow Hills, CA 91040, Roxanne Sanchez, 818-353-4187.

                          Southern California Killi Club 10926 Ranney Avenue, Garden Grove, CA 92643, Ronald Jackson, Sr., 714-638-8445. Meets the 3rd Saturday of every month at 7 PM, at Fidelity Federal Bank, 13820 Seal Beach Blvd., Seal Beach, CA.

                          Southern California Marine Aquarium Society 23010 Lake Forest Dr., #218, Laguna Hills, CA 902653, Marc Trimble, 714-836-0595 or Greg Meeker 714-458-9839. Meetings held every third Friday of the month at Nicholas Junior High School, Room 34, 1110 W. Olive St., Fullerton CA at 8pm.

                          Tropical Fish Keepers Exchange 802 Arlington Way, Martinez, CA 92653, James Lawson, 510-335-9346

                          San Diego Tropical Fish Society. P.O. Box 4156, N. Park Sta., San Diego, CA 92164, Wayne Juliem, 619-281-FISH. Meets on the 2nd Sunday of every month at 7 PM at the Casa Del Prado, Room 101 in Balboa Park.

                          San Diego Killifish Group (SDKG) San Diego, CA, 619-274-3009.

                          Pan Pacific Guppy Association 3669 Briscoe Street, Riverside,CA 92506, Luke Roebuck, 909-351-4389.

                          Marine Aquarium Society of Los Angeles 1016 Burtonwood Ave., Thousand Oaks, CA 91360, President: Jim Stime, Jr., 815-496-6692. Dedicated to the Marine Aquarium Hobbyist, host of MACNA X.
                          Vice-President: John Greywitt
                          , Secretary: Jon Pedder



                          Hope one of these help

                          rob
                          Indiana












































                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8864 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: Re: khuli loaches doing poorly
                          Sorry Rob, I thought we were on the Nitrates thread. I started
                          reading your reply (your message #1854) to that thread, when somehow
                          my PC jumped back one message to your previous message #1853 (Khuli
                          loaches) without my realizing it, and I replied thinking we were
                          still on Nitrates (#1854). I've started having strange PC problems
                          lately and this is just one of them. Ray
                          >
                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, FortWayneFish@a... wrote:
                          > I thaught we was talking Khuli loaches.... Since Khuli's are a
                          nocturnal fish
                          > maybe low light or lights out would give them some time to get
                          accustomed to
                          > the tank. The rapid breathing and not being responsive might be the
                          stress of
                          > moving into a new tank with diffrent PH levels and or diffrent
                          temperatures.
                          > A few days with low light would give them some time to explore and
                          or find
                          > some hiding places. If the person would have said his nitrates
                          where high I
                          > surely would have responded diffrently.( scroll to bottom of this
                          email)
                          >
                          > I understand Plants need light that is why I said maybe to keep the
                          lights to
                          > a mininum (lights on 12 hour timer maybe adjust them down a few
                          hours so the
                          > loaches could have some extra time to adjust)
                          >
                          >
                          > rob
                          > Indiana
                          >
                          > ~~~
                          > Why would you want to keep the lights off??? The idea is that you
                          > want the plants to absorb as much of the nitrates as they possibly
                          > can. This can only be accomplished through the photosynthesis
                          > process of the plants, which will only occur with
                          light.
                          >
                          > ~~~
                          > > I added 3 khuli loaches to my 20G long 3 days ago. It is an
                          > > > established tank with 5 rasboras, 2 pearl gouramis, and 1 oto.
                          The
                          > > > loaches(at least the 2 I can find right now) are breathing
                          > rapidly and
                          > > > not very responsive. The ph is 7.0 and the ammonia and nitrites
                          > are
                          > > > both 0.
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8865 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/3/2005
                          Subject: The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA), 3/18/2005, 12:00 am
                          Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                          The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA)

                          Friday March 18, 2005
                          All Day
                          This event repeats every day, until Sunday March 20, 2005.
                          The next reminder for this event will be sent in 11 days, 2 minutes.

                          Event Location: Marriott Hotel, Farmington, CT
                          Notes:
                          AGA Live! http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/
                          Upcoming Speaking Engagements and Meetings
                          The Northeast Council Workshop will feature Christel Kasselmann, The NEC�s 30th Annual Convention

                          March 18-20, 2005

                          Marriott Hotel, Farmington, CT

                          March 18-20, 2005.

                          http://www.northeastcouncil.org/html/

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                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8866 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/4/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates
                          Wow, Steve, a lot of information to respond to!  Anyway, I retested my tap water, it's 0.  I have changed out 4 and then 8 gallons this week, Monday and Thursday.  I'm using test tubes  and solution with a color chart.  My water's clear and I hold it to a window to see the color as accurately as possible.  The kit's by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.  I have plants, but have used no plant food.  I intend to get some more plants this morning.
                           
                          I'll vacuum the substrate when I change more water.  I haven't done that, as I was advised to wait before vacuuming. 
                           
                          I had resumed feeding my fish small amounts once or twice a day of flake food and the shrimp pellets two to three times a week.  Should I reduce feedings?
                           
                          Thanks so much for all your help.
                           
                          Angela
                           
                          -------------- Original message --------------
                          While a nitrate reading of 80 may be of some concern, it is not the end of
                          the world. Most fish should survive it fine.

                          Things to consider, if you have not already. What is the nitrate reading of
                          your water straight from the tap? If it is high also, water changes will not
                          help.

                          Have you tested with another kit to have a comparison? It may be possible
                          that your kit is not giving you an accurate reading. If your tap water also
                          tests high, this would be high on my list of things to do--replace test kit.

                          You just did a 20% water change, presuming your tank is actually holding 20
                          gallons of water. You probably did a bit more than a 20% change, once you
                          account for the substrate, etc. taking up room in the tank, plus you don't
                          fill your tank to the tippy, tippy top. But for this calculation, let's
                          stick with 20%. This means you should have lowered your nitrate level to 64,
                          presuming your tap water does not contain any nitrates. If this did not
                          happen, there is something amiss. If there are nitrates in your tap water,
                          then you may not have brought the level down quite as much, but it should
                          have made a difference.

                          What can you do about nitrates? How can you lower the level?

                          First thing I would do is to look for decaying matter in tank. This does not
                          necessarily mean you have a dead fish in the tank, it could mean uneaten
                          food rotting away in a corner or a crevice, decaying matter in the
                          substrate, decaying plant parts. Look carefully for a source like this, and
                          clean your substrate as well as you can.

                          I saw elsewhere a mention of plants in your tank. Did you give them any
                          plant food? This may be a source of nitrates, particularly if the plant food
                          was not specifically formulated for aquarium use. If you do have live plants
                          in the tank, get them growing. They'll not remove the nitrate over night,
                          but healthy, growing plants will use available nitrates, unless they are
                          getting them from another source. if you need help with plants, visit the
                          AGA site, <http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org>. They have a number of
                          resources that may help you.

                          There are ways to remove nitrates with bacteria, as we do with ammonia and
                          nitrites, but it is rather difficult to do in a freshwater tank, and you do
                          need to provide anaerobic conditions for the bacteria to grow and use the
                          nitrate. Be careful should someone offer this as a way to resolve your
                          nitrate issues. Having said that, however, I just read an interesting
                          article, I think it was in AFM (Aquarium Fish Magazine), about using a form
                          of sulphur to remove nitrates. It seems to be working in marine tanks, but
                          whether it will transfer to freshwater remains to be seen.

                          How are you getting your readings? Are you reading a color from a chart
                          against a colored water sample, or are you using a test strip, or, perhaps a
                          meter? If you are using a water sample, the color could be off if the water
                          is anything but clear.

                          \\Steve//

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
                          Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 8:50 AM
                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrates

                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8867 From: Steve Date: 3/4/2005
                          Subject: Re: The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA), 3/18/2005, 12:00 am
                          While it is past the registration deadline, registrations are still being accepted, but at a higher price. The NEC is well worth attending, if you can make it. I have been to 26 of the 30, and each one was worth the time and effort to attend. These are the speakers this year:
                           
                          Laif DeMason - African Cichlid Farming in Florida
                          Randy Carey - Practices and Qualities of the Master Breeder
                          Dr. Anton Lamboj from Austria - West African Cichlids - Characoids
                          Gary Lange – Rainbowfish
                          Lee Finley - Banquet Master of Ceremonies
                          Dr. Paul Loiselle – Lake Victoria
                          Christel Kasselmann from Germany – Plants
                          Rosario LaCorte - Killifish
                          Ian Fuller from England – Corydoras
                           
                          This is your chance to meet and rub elbows with some of the best in the hobby.
                           
                          If you can't make any of the events, try to make the auction on Sunday. You will see a number of rare and unusual fish offered in the auction, as well as good specimens of the mundane.
                           
                          Another note: this is one event where speakers actually ask to be invited to speak, and many nationally known people attend whether they are speaking or not.
                           
                           
                           -----Original Message-----
                          From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                          Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 2:57 AM
                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [AquaticLife] The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA), 3/18/2005, 12:00 am

                          Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                          The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA)

                          Friday March 18, 2005
                          All Day
                          This event repeats every day, until Sunday March 20, 2005.
                          The next reminder for this event will be sent in 11 days, 2 minutes.

                          Event Location: Marriott Hotel, Farmington, CT
                          Notes:
                          AGA Live! http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/
                          Upcoming Speaking Engagements and Meetings
                          The Northeast Council Workshop will feature Christel Kasselmann, The NEC's 30th Annual Convention

                          March 18-20, 2005

                          Marriott Hotel, Farmington, CT

                          March 18-20, 2005.

                          http://www.northeastcouncil.org/html/

                          Yahoo! Greetings
                          Send a Yahoo! Greeting.
                          Birthday Reminders
                          Set up birthday reminders!
                          ADVERTISEMENT


                          Copyright ©  2005  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.
                          Privacy Policy - Terms of Service


                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                          .
                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8868 From: eggybumstu Date: 3/4/2005
                          Subject: Re: khuli loaches doing poorly
                          I think this is definately stress related to the move and agree that
                          subdued lighting would help them to settle in. Also give them
                          something to hide in, they love to bury themselves in the substrate
                          and if your gravel is a little sharp, course or too big they won't
                          be able to get out of the daylight and feel safe. A bit of bogwood
                          or biuld a little cave out of a pile of small rocks would give them
                          a place they can call home. These are great little fish and I hope
                          you have succes with them

                          Good luck Stu
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8869 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates

                          Angela,

                           

                          Reduce feeding to 1 time a day. API Kit is good as I also use the same but the colour difference between 80ppm and 40ppm is something I personally cannot differentiate easily. You should be able to vacuum your gravel now as the amounts of nitrates that are produced in your tank is a lot and does indicate that your tank has completed the cycle. I hope there is no dead fish in the tank or the filter that is causing the problem. Your stock level is normal for a 20 gallon tank but the speed at which nitrates are rising indicates a higher load for some reason.

                           

                          What plants do you have in there? Increasing plants is always a good idea and will help fight off nitrates. If the levels reach 80ppm again in a couple of days after this water change, do a straight forward 50-60% change and then start monitoring the rise in nitrates. We need to know how fast they are rising so a better water change schedule can be thought off.

                           

                          Nim

                           

                           


                          From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
                          Sent: 04 March 2005 10:57
                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrates

                           

                          Wow, Steve, a lot of information to respond to!  Anyway, I retested my tap water, it's 0.  I have changed out 4 and then 8 gallons this week, Monday and Thursday.  I'm using test tubes  and solution with a color chart.  My water's clear and I hold it to a window to see the color as accurately as possible.  The kit's by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.  I have plants, but have used no plant food.  I intend to get some more plants this morning.

                           

                          I'll vacuum the substrate when I change more water.  I haven't done that, as I was advised to wait before vacuuming. 

                           

                          I had resumed feeding my fish small amounts once or twice a day of flake food and the shrimp pellets two to three times a week.  Should I reduce feedings?

                           

                          Thanks so much for all your help.

                           

                          Angela

                           

                          -------------- Original message --------------
                          While a nitrate reading of 80 may be of some concern, it is not the end of
                          the world. Most fish should survive it fine.

                          Things to consider, if you have not already. What is the nitrate reading of
                          your water straight from the tap? If it is high also, water changes will not
                          help.

                          Have you tested with another kit to have a comparison? It may be possible
                          that your kit is not giving you an accurate reading. If your tap water also
                          tests high, this would be high on my list of things to do--replace test kit.

                          You just did a 20% water change, presuming your tank is actually holding 20
                          gallons of water. You probably did a bit more than a 20% change, once you
                          account for the substrate, etc. taking up room in the tank, plus you don't
                          fill your tank to the tippy, tippy top. But for this calculation, let's
                          stick with 20%. This means you should have lowered your nitrate level to 64,
                          presuming your tap water does not contain any nitrates. If this did not
                          happen, there is something amiss. If there are nitrates in your tap water,
                          then you may not have brought the level down quite as much, but it should
                          have made a difference.

                          What can you do about nitrates? How can you lower the level?

                          First thing I would do is to look for decaying matter in tank. This does not
                          necessarily mean you have a dead fish in the tank, it could mean uneaten
                          food rotting away in a corner or a crevice, decaying matter in the
                          substrate, decaying plant parts. Look carefully for a source like this, and
                          clean your substrate as well as you can.

                          I saw elsewhere a mention of plants in your tank. Did you give them any
                          plant food? This may be a source of nitrates, particularly if the plant food
                          was not specifically formulated for aquarium use. If you do have live plants
                          in the tank, get them growing. They'll not remove the nitrate over night,
                          but healthy, growing plants will use available nitrates, unless they are
                          getting them from another source. if you need help with plants, visit the
                          AGA site, <http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org>. They have a number of
                          resources that may help you.

                          There are ways to remove nitrates with bacteria, as we do with ammonia and
                          nitrites, but it is rather difficult to do in a freshwater tank, and you do
                          need to provide anaerobic conditions for the bacteria to grow and use the
                          nitrate. Be careful should someone offer this as a way to resolve your
                          nitrate issues. Having said that, however, I just read an interesting
                          article, I think it was in AFM (Aquarium Fish Magazine), about using a form
                          of sulphur to remove nitrates. It seems to be working in marine tanks, but
                          whether it will transfer to freshwater remains to be seen.

                          How are you getting your readings? Are you reading a color from a chart
                          against a colored water sample, or are you using a test strip, or, perhaps a
                          meter? If you are using a water sample, the color could be off if the water
                          is anything but clear.

                          \\Steve//

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Angela [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
                          Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 8:50 AM
                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrates



                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                          .
                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8870 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/4/2005
                          Subject: Re: Southern California societies?
                          wow, thanks a lot! I'll check out the one in Shadow Hills
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8871 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/4/2005
                          Subject: Elephant noses
                          What nature do elephant noses have? Do they make for an
                          interesting tank? They look cool.

                          Nick
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8872 From: Aaron Date: 3/4/2005
                          Subject: Societys, Clubs, Associations, Councils (was Re: Southern Californi
                          Hi All,

                          are any of you a member of any Societys, Clubs, Associations,
                          Councils & Groups etc..?

                          does anybody know of any others or a database of Societys, Clubs,
                          Associations, Councils & Groups?


                          thanks for the info, I've added them to the links and calendar


                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, FortWayneFish@a... wrote:
                          > Ok this list has not been updated in awhile ...'snipped'....
                          > Hope one of these help
                          >
                          > rob
                          > Indiana
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8873 From: Steve Date: 3/4/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates
                          Angela,

                          Hold a piece of white paper so you can see a portion of the paper through
                          the water in the tank and a portion of the paper without obstruction. Water
                          still look clear?

                          I had a set of test vials that pretty much took water color out of
                          consideration, and just looked up to see if they are still offered. It looks
                          like they are, but you may need to do a bit of looking to find these kits.
                          They are Aqua-tru kits distributed by Kordon. Despite the quality of Kordon
                          products, they have never enjoyed a wide distribution. However, when I was
                          looking for this, I found, on their site, in the sheet on the High Range
                          Nitrate Test Kit, this information, which may be of interest:

                          "Since the nitrate in solution is converted to nitrite before the color
                          compound is formed, any nitrite in solution will increase the apparent
                          nitrate concentration. This should be of little concern in a well
                          conditioned aquarium or pond since nitrite concentrations will be very low
                          with respect to nitrate levels. However, when conditioning an aquarium,
                          nitrite levels may be significant when compared to nitrate levels. In any
                          such case, the nitrite test should be done in addition to the nitrate test
                          for accurate readings. The nitrite reading (mg/L NO2) reading should be
                          subracted from the nitrate mg/L NO3) reading to yield an accurate nitrate
                          concentration.

                          "Chloride will also interfere with the test; compensation for this
                          interference has been made in the conversion factor given. The High Range
                          Nitrate Kit calibrations are for freshwater readings, as opposed to the Low
                          Range Nitrate Kit which is calibrated for saltwater use. To convert the High
                          Range Kit readings to saltwater values, multiply by 2."

                          This also means you should ensure you are getting an accurate reading from
                          your nitrite kit and that it is not influencing the reading from the nitrate
                          kit. Very interesting. (I should add here, that I may be somewhat biased
                          toward Kordon products because I know some of the people involved. I
                          generally try, however, to be a straight shooter when recommending products,
                          because I have actually used them. For instance, I know personally the guy
                          who invented Novaqua and Amquel. I do not hesitate to recommend these
                          products because I know the guy, but because I have used them, and know they
                          work as advertised. He also developed Amquel Plus and a number of other
                          products that Kordon distributes under their name, but I don't out and out
                          recommend them because I have not used them myself, however, I would lead
                          toward recommending them because of my knowledge of the individual.)

                          Cycling a tank with fish in it is rather difficult. Mainly because we are
                          concerned with the living animals in it. I have not followed all your
                          travails here, but it does seem as though you have a new, or relatively new,
                          tank we are dealing with here. I do recall you had said your ammonia and
                          nitrites were reading zero. If so, this is good. We only need to deal with
                          the nitrates here, and we have the time to do it properly. As I briefly
                          touched on, a nitrate level of 80, while not ideal, is nothing to panic
                          over. We have the time to closely examine each possible cause and determine
                          if there is a fix we can apply to remedy a found cause. Even long term
                          exposure to this level of nitrate should not harm the fish you have in the
                          tank already. They should be relatively immune to its effects. Had you
                          listed a species that is known to be affected by nitrates, then we might
                          have to hurry the process along.

                          As long as your fish are eating all the food you are giving them, there is
                          no harm in continuing feeding. It is far better to underfeed the fish than
                          it is to overfeed the fish. I like to always point out that most fish are
                          opportunistic feeders. If there is food present, they will take the
                          opportunity to eat it.

                          Unless you have an undergravel filter (UGF) you are trying to season, there
                          should be no harm in giving the whole tank a thorough vacuuming. This is
                          somewhat complicated by the fact you have plants present in the tank, and,
                          before I have written this, added more. Do as good a job as you can, without
                          uprooting the plants. Once you have removed 25% of the water, stop, and save
                          the rest for another day. The water changes do not seem to be helping your
                          nitrate level at present, and you have already changed more than 50% of the
                          water in one day. If you notice that you are vacuuming up a lot of detritus
                          from the gravel, do the job daily until the detritus clears. This may very
                          well be the source of your nitrates.

                          If you are using a UGF, do not disturb more than about 1/4 the gravel bed,
                          then wait a few days before doing the next section to give the nitrobacter
                          and nitrosomas bacteria a chance to re-establish equilibrium.

                          In any case, test daily for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

                          Make the substrate cleansing a part of your weekly routine when we have
                          gotten this nitrate thing under control. If you are using a UGF, and you are
                          fortunate to be able to look up under the UGF, look to see what is under
                          there. Generally, it is a collector of detritus of a form called mulm. If
                          this is the case. snake some flexible tubing under the filter, via the
                          uplift tubes, and do your best to clean some of this stuff up. It could be
                          hiding the cause of your high nitrates hidden. This is a difficult thing to
                          do, and mulm generally does not affect water chemistry, so just do the best
                          you can.

                          Be alert for dying and decaying plant parts, as I mentioned yesterday, and
                          remove them as soon as you find them. Especially with new plants as they
                          regenerate themselves to your water and substrate conditions. Many newly
                          planted plants will tend to die off some before coming back to life. Get
                          this stuff out as soon as possible so we know that it is not contributing to
                          the problem.

                          This stuff is a pain in the butt, but eventually, you will find the cause
                          and things will get better. My early days in the hobby preceded the
                          knowledge of a biological cycle as it is understood today. However, we were
                          able to successfully keep and raise fish without the knowledge that is
                          available today. The notion of a balanced aquarium was certainly around, and
                          we used various forms of filtration and we all had live plants, and we
                          managed to have what were referred to as balanced tanks. A lot of it was
                          intuition, without the scientific knowledge to back it up. I still remember
                          my grandmother's tank of guppies from more years ago than I care to count,
                          in her NYC apartment. I remember my father's tanks of angels, including the
                          tank he built himself to fit into a window space for angels specifically. He
                          was able to breed his angels, know far less about water chemistry and
                          requirements than we know today. Don't freak too much about this situation,
                          and don't make rash decisions. reason things out, and you'll do fine.

                          \\Steve//

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
                          Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 5:57 AM
                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrates


                          Wow, Steve, a lot of information to respond to! Anyway, I retested my tap
                          water, it's 0. I have changed out 4 and then 8 gallons this week, Monday
                          and Thursday. I'm using test tubes and solution with a color chart. My
                          water's clear and I hold it to a window to see the color as accurately as
                          possible. The kit's by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. I have plants, but
                          have used no plant food. I intend to get some more plants this morning.

                          I'll vacuum the substrate when I change more water. I haven't done that, as
                          I was advised to wait before vacuuming.

                          I had resumed feeding my fish small amounts once or twice a day of flake
                          food and the shrimp pellets two to three times a week. Should I reduce
                          feedings?

                          Thanks so much for all your help.

                          Angela
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8874 From: Steve Date: 3/4/2005
                          Subject: Re: Societys, Clubs, Associations, Councils (was Re: Southern Calif
                          Aaron,

                          <http://www.petsforum.com/was/links.html>

                          There are a number of sections that deal with clubs, societies and groups.
                          Certainly not definitive, but a bunch.

                          \\Steve//

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Aaron [mailto:massagetherapist@...]
                          Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 8:24 PM
                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [AquaticLife] Societys, Clubs, Associations, Councils (was Re:
                          Southern California societies?)




                          Hi All,

                          are any of you a member of any Societys, Clubs, Associations,
                          Councils & Groups etc..?

                          does anybody know of any others or a database of Societys, Clubs,
                          Associations, Councils & Groups?


                          thanks for the info, I've added them to the links and calendar
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8875 From: Steve Date: 3/4/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates
                          Angela,

                          I forgot to give the link for Kordon, so you can take a look at their stuff:
                          <http://www.novalek.com/>.

                          \\Steve//

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
                          Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 5:57 AM
                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrates


                          Wow, Steve, a lot of information to respond to! Anyway, I retested my tap
                          water, it's 0. I have changed out 4 and then 8 gallons this week, Monday
                          and Thursday. I'm using test tubes and solution with a color chart. My
                          water's clear and I hold it to a window to see the color as accurately as
                          possible. The kit's by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. I have plants, but
                          have used no plant food. I intend to get some more plants this morning.

                          I'll vacuum the substrate when I change more water. I haven't done that, as
                          I was advised to wait before vacuuming.

                          I had resumed feeding my fish small amounts once or twice a day of flake
                          food and the shrimp pellets two to three times a week. Should I reduce
                          feedings?

                          Thanks so much for all your help.

                          Angela
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8876 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/4/2005
                          Subject: Re: Societys, Clubs, Associations, Councils (was Re: Southern C...
                          In a message dated 3/4/2005 5:27:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, massagetherapist@... writes:
                          Hi All,

                          are any of you a member of any Societys, Clubs, Associations,
                          Councils & Groups etc..?

                          does anybody know of any others or a database of Societys, Clubs,
                          Associations, Councils & Groups?
                          Ah, funny you should mention that.
                          Tonight is the San Francisco Aquarium Society Mega Auction.
                          If you are in the area come check it out, starts at 8:00 PM.
                           
                           
                           
                          Two other SF Bay Area societies.
                          Silicon Valey Aquarium Society.
                           
                          Pacific Coast Cichlid Association.
                           
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8877 From: Aaron Date: 3/4/2005
                          Subject: AquariumHobbyist Guest Chats Tonight!
                          Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 19:08:38 -0600 (CST)

                          Show Full Headers Back To [INBOX]

                          We've had an addition to our lineup of guests for our special guest
                          chats tonight on AquariumHobbyist.com!

                          Joining Cheri and Chuck from MASNA at 9 PM Eastern will be John
                          Brandt, who is the Marine Aquarium Council/United States Coral Reef
                          Task Force representative for MASNA. He is on the Board of Directors
                          of the Chicagoland Marine Aquarium Society (CMAS), and serves on the
                          Marine Aquarium Council (MAC) as MASNA Representative. He has
                          lectured at two MACNAs and many more times for the Chicagoland
                          Marine
                          Aquarium Society. He is involved in aquarium industry reform issues,
                          which includes an active relationship with the United States Coral
                          Reef Task Force (USCRTF) and the Marine Aquarium Council (MAC).

                          The MASNA chat, as well as the cichlid chat immediately afterward
                          with the American Cichlid Association's Morrell Devlin, will be held
                          in our regular fish and marine life chat room:

                          http://chat.pethobbyist.com/login.php?room_name=Fish+%
                          26+Marine+Life+Chat

                          You can get expanded info on our chats here:

                          MASNA Chat
                          http://www.aquariumhobbyist.com/articles/MASNA.html

                          Cichlid Chat
                          http://www.aquariumhobbyist.com/articles/MorrellDevlin.html

                          We hope to see you there!

                          Heidi Hart
                          PHSplendens
                          Site Coordinator, AquariumHobbyist.com
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8878 From: Aaron Date: 3/4/2005
                          Subject: Special Guest Chats Friday, March 4!
                          9 PM ET - Cheri Phillips, Chuck Scannell, John Brandt from the
                          Marine Aquarium Societies of North America
                          10 PM ET: Tank Busters! Central and South American Cichlid with
                          Morrell Devlin


                          Click here for chats!

                          http://tinyurl.com/3pz3q

                          or

                          http://chat.pethobbyist.com/login.php?room_name=Fish+%
                          26+Marine+Life+Chat
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8879 From: Aaron Date: 3/4/2005
                          Subject: Events This Week
                          - Central Florida Koi Show,Orlando,FL-Mar 11-13, 2005
                          - CBF Koi Photo Contest,Macon,GA-Mar 18, 2005
                          - 11th Annual TKFGS Imported Fish Sale,San Antonio,TX-Mar 26-
                          27, 2005
                          - Super Pet Expo,Chantilly,VA-Apr 01-03, 2005
                          - Americas Family Pet Expo,Costa Mesa,CA-Apr 15-17, 2005
                          - Convention Aquariophile du Québec,Quebec City,ca-Apr 16-17,
                          2005
                          - Harrisburg Pet Expo,Harrisburg,PA-Apr 30-May 01, 2005
                          - More.....http://aquariumhobbyist.com/events.html

                          from -

                          http://aquariumhobbyist.com/
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8880 From: Aaron Date: 3/4/2005
                          Subject: aquarium society meeting or event information.
                          http://aquariumhobbyist.com/events.html

                          Aquaria & Pond Events

                          Please take a look at the following calendars and add your own

                          | Club & Society Meetings || Symposums/Events/Expos |

                          Upcoming Events
                          Central Florida Koi Show,Orlando,FL-Mar 11-13, 2005
                          CBF Koi Photo Contest,Macon,GA-Mar 18, 2005
                          11th Annual TKFGS Imported Fish Sale,San Antonio,TX-Mar 26-27, 2005
                          Super Pet Expo,Chantilly,VA-Apr 01-03, 2005
                          Americas Family Pet Expo,Costa Mesa,CA-Apr 15-17, 2005
                          Convention Aquariophile du Québec,Quebec City,ca-Apr 16-17, 2005
                          Harrisburg Pet Expo,Harrisburg,PA-Apr 30-May 01, 2005
                          Houston Pet Expo,San Mateo,CA-June 03-05, 2005
                          Lone Star Koi Club Annual Water Garden a,Houston,TX-June 4-5, 2005
                          Americas Family Pet Expo,Pomona,CA-June 24-26, 2005
                          NorthWest Koi and Goldfish Show 2005,Portland,OR-July 30-31, 2005
                          Americas Family Pet Expo,Pomona,CA-Nov 18-20, 2005
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8881 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/4/2005
                          Subject: The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA), 3/19/2005, 12:00 am
                          Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                          The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA)

                          Saturday March 19, 2005
                          All Day
                          This event repeats every day, until Sunday March 20, 2005.
                          The next reminder for this event will be sent in 10 days, 3 minutes.

                          Event Location: Marriott Hotel, Farmington, CT
                          Notes:
                          AGA Live! http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/
                          Upcoming Speaking Engagements and Meetings
                          The Northeast Council Workshop will feature Christel Kasselmann, The NEC�s 30th Annual Convention

                          March 18-20, 2005

                          Marriott Hotel, Farmington, CT

                          March 18-20, 2005.

                          http://www.northeastcouncil.org/html/

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                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8882 From: la_rmarquezjr Date: 3/5/2005
                          Subject: aquarium plant swap anyone?
                          Hi! It's the start of summer over here in the Philippines and it's
                          time again for me to do some serious thinning and replanting. Which
                          means I have excess plants again. Anyone here interested in plant
                          swap? I can send you a list of plants I have in excess if you're
                          interested.

                          Rod
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8883 From: CRAIG DAVISON Date: 3/5/2005
                          Subject: Re: aquarium plant swap anyone?
                          Hi im craig
                          I could be interested, if its possible? i live in ulster .                         
                                                                                          craig

                          la_rmarquezjr <la_rmarquezjr@...> wrote:

                          Hi! It's the start of summer over here in the Philippines and it's
                          time again for me to do some serious thinning and replanting. Which
                          means I have excess plants again. Anyone here interested in plant
                          swap? I can send you a list of plants I have in excess if you're
                          interested.

                          Rod





                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter





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                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8884 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 3/5/2005
                          Subject: Re: aquarium plant swap anyone?
                          My friend has done it before with epiphytic vines called hoyas with someone from Sweden. Most quarantine measures prohibit the transport of plants with soil, which can easily be overcome because most aquarium plants can survive for quite a while without soil. After a quick look this afternoon, I have an excess of the following:
                           
                          Sagittaria subulata
                          Echinodorus tenellus
                          Glossostigma elatinoides
                          Heteranthera zosterifolia
                          Vallisneria americana "Spiralis"
                          Bacopa caroliniana
                          Bacopa monnieri
                          Cryptocoryne ferruginea
                          Cryptocoryne albida
                          Cryptocoryne willisii
                          Cryptocoryne aponogetifolia
                          Cryptocoryne pygmaea
                          Cryptocoryne usteriana
                           
                          I'm more interested in similar rosette and/or carpeting plants and cryptocorynes are one of my favorites. But I'm more of a collect-em-all and if I don't have it yet, I won't turn it down. :-)
                           
                          Rod


                           <craigy1012000@...> wrote:
                          Hi im craig
                          I could be interested, if its possible? i live in ulster .                         
                                                                                          craig

                          la_rmarquezjr <la_rmarquezjr@...> wrote:

                          Hi! It's the start of summer over here in the Philippines and it's
                          time again for me to do some serious thinning and replanting. Which
                          means I have excess plants again. Anyone here interested in plant
                          swap? I can send you a list of plants I have in excess if you're
                          interested.

                          Rod





                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                          .
                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter





                          EASY DOES IT,
                          ONE DAY AT A TIME.

                          Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                          .
                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8885 From: Eric Miner Date: 3/5/2005
                          Subject: Starter plants and fish?
                          Hello Everyone,

                          I'm just starting out and have loads of questions. I've been doing a
                          lot of research on freshwater aquariums.

                          I'm planning to get a 55 gallon tank (48"Lx13"Wx20"H). I'm also
                          planning to have it well planted.

                          Right now I'm trying to figure out what the best fish and plants are
                          to start out. Once planted I plan on cycling the tank for 4-6 weeks
                          before adding fish.

                          So, my first question is about plants. I'd like to have a few broad
                          leaf specimens, a couple long leaf `grass-like' ones and some of the
                          small leaf `ground cover' aka `carpet' like plants. I'd like my aqua
                          flora to be slow to medium growing. I've read that the first plants
                          should be hearty. But, I'm wondering if I can go ahead and stat with
                          the plants that will always be in the tank? I plan about 2 watts of
                          light/gallon. What would you suggest as good plants?

                          Next question – fish.
                          My family likes the following fish:
                          Tetras – "Headlight and Taillight", Rummy nose, basically any of the
                          colorful tetras.

                          My wife is particularly fond of the Pearl Gourami as am I. She also
                          like the Bolivian Ram a lot.

                          The colorful Mollies and Swords are also popular with the family.
                          Any suggestions on Catfish?

                          I love to watch schooling fish. I plan to get at the very least a few
                          of each species. Any suggestion on good starter schooling fish?
                          Well, that's all for now….but I have a lot more to ask ;-)

                          Thanks,
                          Eric
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8886 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/5/2005
                          Subject: SEABay, 3/19/2005, 7:00 pm
                          Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                          SEABay

                          Saturday March 19, 2005
                          7:00 pm - 8:00 pm
                          This event does not repeat.
                          The next reminder for this event will be sent in 11 days, 4 minutes.

                          Event Location: Baylands Interpretive Center, 2775 Embarcadero Road in Palo Alto, CA
                          Notes:
                          Mike Paletta on "Propagation and Coloration in Corals".

                          March 19 , 2005 at 7PM
                          http://www.seabay.org/

                          SEABay is a member of MASNA and encourage you as individuals to consider signing up as well.
                          http://www.masna.org/

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                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8887 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/5/2005
                          Subject: Southern California Marine Aquarium Society , 3/18/2005, 7:00 pm
                          Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                          Southern California Marine Aquarium Society

                          Friday March 18, 2005
                          7:00 pm - 8:00 pm
                          This event repeats on the third Friday of every month.
                          The next reminder for this event will be sent in 10 days, 4 minutes.

                          Event Location: Santa Ana at the IHOP restaurant at 1001 E. 17th. St., one block east of the 5 Freeway.
                          Notes:
                          http://www.scmas.org/

                          Southern California Marine Aquarium Society (SCMAS) is a marine aquarium club, based in Orange County, California. We're a lively group including both reef and fish-only aquarists

                          We meet the 3rd Friday of every month at 7:00 PM in Santa Ana at the IHOP restaurant at 1001 E. 17th. St., one block east of the 5 Freeway.

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                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8888 From: CBlnds8@aol.com Date: 3/5/2005
                          Subject: Have a question
                          We have a 50 gallon tank as of now we have two plecos that are 8 inch's long. We have 2 sharks one is a Rainbow and it is about 3 inch's long. Ok the other is a shark cannot spell the first part but he is a silver or white color has almost a hammer head look to him. Anyway what other fish would be good to put in the tank with them. Thanks Ken
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8889 From: adam_yg_ciamik Date: 3/5/2005
                          Subject: Hiii..... new kids on block.....hehehehe
                          Hi guys,
                          My name is Adam and i'm from Indonesia. I'm a final year student
                          majoring in Aquaculture here in Bogor, Indonesia. Really exited on
                          joining this group. By the way I also work on a Aquatic Plants
                          Grower+Exporter here in Indonesia. We have more than 150 species
                          exist here and export it almost all over the world. So, if you're
                          interested on making a certain inquiries or have a question bout
                          ornamental fish and aquascaping, just contact me. Nice to have you
                          all.

                          Biggest Regards,

                          Adam
                          PT Sunny Indopramitha
                          adam_yg_ciamik@...
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8890 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/5/2005
                          Subject: The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA), 3/20/2005, 12:00 am
                          Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                          The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA)

                          Sunday March 20, 2005
                          All Day
                          This event repeats every day, until Sunday March 20, 2005.
                          The next reminder for this event will be sent in 9 days, 2 minutes.

                          Event Location: Marriott Hotel, Farmington, CT
                          Notes:
                          AGA Live! http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/
                          Upcoming Speaking Engagements and Meetings
                          The Northeast Council Workshop will feature Christel Kasselmann, The NEC�s 30th Annual Convention

                          March 18-20, 2005

                          Marriott Hotel, Farmington, CT

                          March 18-20, 2005.

                          http://www.northeastcouncil.org/html/

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                          Birthday Reminders
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                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8891 From: Terry Date: 3/6/2005
                          Subject: Question on Id Sharks
                          I bought one 3 weeks ago and have a 180 gal tank.

                          He's about 9 inchs and seems to have settled down,but I don't think
                          he is eating and I have tried to entice him with everything.Ive
                          tested for ammonia and nitrates, everything is fine,and do water
                          changes 1 per week.

                          Any ideas why he isnt eating.TIA

                          Terry
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8892 From: shailendra Indulkar Date: 3/6/2005
                          Subject: all males tilapia
                          Tilapia All Male > HOW?



                          Dear Members ,

                          I wish to conduct a small experiment to get : all male Tilapia .

                          Could some one suggest a experiment ,materials and method .

                          Some source of information some good web site are also most welcome

                          ManyThanks
                          indulkarshailu@...
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8893 From: Steve Date: 3/6/2005
                          Subject: Re: all males tilapia
                          I believe that you will need to come up with more than wanting to work with
                          tilapia, and all males at that. I do suspect that this is to be some sort of
                          school science project, so you would need a hypothesis to prove or disprove
                          with your tilapia.

                          So, I'd suggest you sit down, perhaps read about tilapia a bit, and
                          determine what you would like to do with them. Tilapia have been worked with
                          quite a bit, so there should be a wealth of literature out there that you
                          can access for ideas. Tilapia are widely raised as food fish.

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: shailendra Indulkar [mailto:indulkarshailu@...]
                          Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 10:57 AM
                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [AquaticLife] all males tilapia




                          Tilapia All Male > HOW?



                          Dear Members ,

                          I wish to conduct a small experiment to get : all male Tilapia .

                          Could some one suggest a experiment ,materials and method .

                          Some source of information some good web site are also most welcome

                          ManyThanks
                          indulkarshailu@...






                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                          .
                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                          the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                          subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                          in Advance for your help in this matter
                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8894 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/6/2005
                          Subject: Re: Starter plants and fish?
                          Eric, Planting and stocking a tank is largely a personal
                          preference. However, you might consider some Sagittaria subulata for
                          your "long leaf grass-like" plants which you'd put in the
                          background. A broad-leafed Amazon Sword plant could be used as
                          your "center plant" (planted off center) and water sprite could be
                          used off to the sides. After the tank gets established, you could
                          add a few Crytocorynes mid way off to the sides. Micro-Sagittaria
                          makes a good low-lying "carpet plant" for the side-foreground.
                          Driftwood and/or rocks will help finish off the aqua-scaping. Two
                          watts per gallon is not very strong, unless you have window light
                          helping. Better results may be had with 3 to 4 watts per gallon, but
                          this also depends on how long you intend to keep it on.
                          \
                          Pearl Gourami's are one of the less aggressive of that group, and
                          Bolivian Rams should work out. Mollies and Swordtails are very
                          popular. You can't go wrong with a few Cory cats and perhaps one or
                          two Otocynclus cats for cleaning up any algae. Most any Tetras (Head
                          & Tail-lights, Rummy-Nose, etc.) will school if kept in a group of at
                          the very least 6 or preferably more, which they should be. Other
                          choices here might be Emperor Tetras, Feathertail Tetras and Glow-
                          Lites with large Cardinals. Ray
                          \
                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Miner" <eminer1254@y...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Hello Everyone,
                          >
                          > I'm just starting out and have loads of questions. I've been doing a
                          > lot of research on freshwater aquariums.
                          >
                          > I'm planning to get a 55 gallon tank (48"Lx13"Wx20"H). I'm also
                          > planning to have it well planted.
                          >
                          > Right now I'm trying to figure out what the best fish and plants are
                          > to start out. Once planted I plan on cycling the tank for 4-6 weeks
                          > before adding fish.
                          >
                          > So, my first question is about plants. I'd like to have a few broad
                          > leaf specimens, a couple long leaf `grass-like' ones and some of the
                          > small leaf `ground cover' aka `carpet' like plants. I'd like my aqua
                          > flora to be slow to medium growing. I've read that the first plants
                          > should be hearty. But, I'm wondering if I can go ahead and stat with
                          > the plants that will always be in the tank? I plan about 2 watts of
                          > light/gallon. What would you suggest as good plants?
                          >
                          > Next question – fish.
                          > My family likes the following fish:
                          > Tetras – "Headlight and Taillight", Rummy nose, basically any of the
                          > colorful tetras.
                          >
                          > My wife is particularly fond of the Pearl Gourami as am I. She also
                          > like the Bolivian Ram a lot.
                          >
                          > The colorful Mollies and Swords are also popular with the family.
                          > Any suggestions on Catfish?
                          >
                          > I love to watch schooling fish. I plan to get at the very least a
                          few
                          > of each species. Any suggestion on good starter schooling fish?
                          > Well, that's all for now….but I have a lot more to ask ;-)
                          >
                          > Thanks,
                          > Eric
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8895 From: AL Date: 3/6/2005
                          Subject: Re: Have a question
                          Hi im am Al,
                          If your sharks are mellow you could put angles,tetras silver
                          dollars. That is what I have in my 45 and 30 tank.

                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, CBlnds8@a... wrote:
                          > We have a 50 gallon tank as of now we have two plecos that are 8
                          inch's
                          > long. We have 2 sharks one is a Rainbow and it is about 3 inch's
                          long. Ok the
                          > other is a shark cannot spell the first part but he is a silver or
                          white color
                          > has almost a hammer head look to him. Anyway what other fish would
                          be good to
                          > put in the tank with them. Thanks Ken
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8896 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/6/2005
                          Subject: Re: Tiger barbs swimming nose down
                          My tiger barbs often swimm with there head lower than their tail
                          almost doing a head first pin dive some times. I'm guessing it
                          could be something to do with the current in the water or
                          something... anyone else have tiger barbs that do this.

                          My tank waters prety much perfect otherwise.




                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greywolfmm" <lists@w...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I recently started a 29 gallon tank. I let it run for a couple
                          days
                          > to get the temperature settled, then went the Bio-Spira route by
                          > adding it and my fish on Saturday. The barbs had been doing great,
                          > zipping around the tank like tigers do. They looked perfectly
                          happy
                          > today as well. This evening, however, several of them started
                          > swimming with their nose pointed at the bottom of the tank. I
                          > immediately checked my water conditions. Ammonia is at 0,
                          Nitrites at
                          > 0.25, and barely any Nitrates. Temperature is at 77 degrees. This
                          > does not look bad to me, so I'm wondering what the problem is or if
                          > this is a normal behavior.
                          >
                          > Any suggestions?
                          >
                          > Thanks,
                          >
                          > Kevin
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8897 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/6/2005
                          Subject: Fin rot
                          Hi,


                          DO I NEED TO MEDICATE/HEAL MY OTHER TANK INHABITANTS?


                          My shark hasn't been growing latley and its fins have been getting
                          shorter and shorter and the base has turned red. It seamed stressed
                          and wouldn't relax or stop moving. Yester day the tail was just a
                          stump.

                          I took it out of the community tank and put it in a small tank by
                          itself but it died :-(


                          From a quick skim on the net it sounds like it had fin rot but my
                          other two sharks, one of which i got from the same LFS at the same
                          time, are doing well as they have shiny scales and plenty of life.



                          DO I NEED TO MEDICATE/HEAL MY OTHER TANK INHABITANTS?


                          =Nick


                          300 liters ish (4ft x 2.5ft x 18inch)
                          Elodia plant,
                          Ambulia plant,
                          Sand stone rocks,
                          heaps (15-30) native guppies (greeny blue color shorter tails),
                          2 bala sharks,
                          5 tiger barbs,
                          2 sword tails (M & F),
                          1 Male Simese figher (Beta),
                          1 Flying Fox,
                          1 Cory Dory,
                          1 Bristle Nose,
                          1 Yabbie (australian fresh water crayfish).
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8898 From: bob Date: 3/6/2005
                          Subject: tanks for sale in TN
                          55 and 29 gallon for sale with stand, heater,lights, gravel. asking
                          $30 for the 29 gallon and $50 for the 55 gallon. Will even include
                          fish if you want them. any offers or questions feel free to email me
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8899 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/6/2005
                          Subject: Re: tanks for sale in TN


                          what part of Tennessee?

                          In a message dated 3/6/2005 10:52:38 PM US Eastern Standard Time, eyebeatbadgers@... writes:




                          55 and 29 gallon for sale with stand, heater,lights, gravel. asking
                          $30 for the 29 gallon and $50 for the 55 gallon. Will even include
                          fish if you want them. any offers or questions feel free to email me


                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8900 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 3/6/2005
                          Subject: Re: tanks for sale in TN
                          I may be interested!  Where are you in relation to Nashville?
                           
                          Al
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8901 From: paul helms Date: 3/6/2005
                          Subject: Re: Tiger barbs swimming nose down
                          only when nitrates are high

                          --- "Nicolas J. Munro" <nedarg@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > My tiger barbs often swimm with there head lower
                          > than their tail
                          > almost doing a head first pin dive some times. I'm
                          > guessing it
                          > could be something to do with the current in the
                          > water or
                          > something... anyone else have tiger barbs that do
                          > this.
                          >
                          > My tank waters prety much perfect otherwise.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greywolfmm"
                          > <lists@w...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I recently started a 29 gallon tank. I let it run
                          > for a couple
                          > days
                          > > to get the temperature settled, then went the
                          > Bio-Spira route by
                          > > adding it and my fish on Saturday. The barbs had
                          > been doing great,
                          > > zipping around the tank like tigers do. They
                          > looked perfectly
                          > happy
                          > > today as well. This evening, however, several of
                          > them started
                          > > swimming with their nose pointed at the bottom of
                          > the tank. I
                          > > immediately checked my water conditions. Ammonia
                          > is at 0,
                          > Nitrites at
                          > > 0.25, and barely any Nitrates. Temperature is at
                          > 77 degrees. This
                          > > does not look bad to me, so I'm wondering what the
                          > problem is or if
                          > > this is a normal behavior.
                          > >
                          > > Any suggestions?
                          > >
                          > > Thanks,
                          > >
                          > > Kevin
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >





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                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8902 From: mrfabus Date: 3/6/2005
                          Subject: Snowflake eels and gar pike
                          Hi I was looking for info on keeping eels and gar pike togather if
                          it is ok or not to do
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8903 From: paul helms Date: 3/7/2005
                          Subject: Re: Snowflake eels and gar pike
                          as long as niether will fit in the others mouth. gar
                          are usually top dwellers and eels bottom dwellers.
                          what is teh exact gar though? alligator?
                          --- mrfabus <mrfabus@...> wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > Hi I was looking for info on keeping eels and gar
                          > pike togather if
                          > it is ok or not to do
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >





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                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8904 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/7/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates
                          I vaccuumed 4 gallons of water and gunk from the gravel, re-rooted some plants and cut off dead parts of others and cleaned off the plant residue from the filter intake pipe on Saturday.  I tested yesterday - ammonia and nitrite 0, nitrate 10.  This morning, nitrates were 0.  Is this ok?  Will they come back?  What did I do wrong?
                           
                          Angela
                           
                          -------------- Original message --------------
                          Angela,

                          Hold a piece of white paper so you can see a portion of the paper through
                          the water in the tank and a portion of the paper without obstruction. Water
                          still look clear?

                          I had a set of test vials that pretty much took water color out of
                          consideration, and just looked up to see if they are still offered. It looks
                          like they are, but you may need to do a bit of looking to find these kits.
                          They are Aqua-tru kits distributed by Kordon. Despite the quality of Kordon
                          products, they have never enjoyed a wide distribution. However, when I was
                          looking for this, I found, on their site, in the sheet on the High Range
                          Nitrate Test Kit, this information, which may be of interest:

                          "Since the nitrate in solution is converted to nitrite before the color
                          compound is formed, any nitrite in solution will increase the apparent
                          nitrate concentration. This should be of little concern in a well
                          conditioned aquarium or pond since nitrite concentrations will be very low
                          with respect to nitrate levels. However, when conditioning an aquarium,
                          nitrite levels may be significant when compared to nitrate levels. In any
                          such case, the nitrite test should be done in addition to the nitrate test
                          for accurate readings. The nitrite reading (mg/L NO2) reading should be
                          subracted from the nitrate mg/L NO3) reading to yield an accurate nitrate
                          concentration.

                          "Chloride will also interfere with the test; compensation for this
                          interference has been made in the conversion factor given. The High Range
                          Nitrate Kit calibrations are for freshwater readings, as opposed to the Low
                          Range Nitrate Kit which is calibrated for saltwater use. To convert the High
                          Range Kit readings to saltwater values, multiply by 2."

                          This also means you should ensure you are getting an accurate reading from
                          your nitrite kit and that it is not influencing the reading from the nitrate
                          kit. Very interesting. (I should add here, that I may be somewhat biased
                          toward Kordon products because I know some of the people involved. I
                          generally try, however, to be a straight shooter when recommending products,
                          because I have actually used them. For instance, I know personally the guy
                          who invented Novaqua and Amquel. I do not hesitate to recommend these
                          products because I know the guy, but because I have used them, and know they
                          work as advertised. He also developed Amquel Plus and a number of other
                          products that Kordon distributes under their name, but I don't out and out
                          recommend them because I have not used them myself, however, I would lead
                          toward recommending them because of my knowledge of the individual.)

                          Cycling a tank with fish in it is rather difficult. Mainly because we are
                          concerned with the living animals in it. I have not followed all your
                          travails here, but it does seem as though you have a new, or relatively new,
                          tank we are dealing with here. I do recall you had said your ammonia and
                          nitrites were reading zero. If so, this is good. We only need to deal with
                          the nitrates here, and we have the time to do it properly. As I briefly
                          touched on, a nitrate level of 80, while not ideal, is nothing to panic
                          over. We have the time to closely examine each possible cause and determine
                          if there is a fix we can apply to remedy a found cause. Even long term
                          exposure to this level of nitrate should not harm the fish you have in the
                          tank already. They should be relatively immune to its effects. Had you
                          listed a species that is known to be affected by nitrates, then we might
                          have to hurry the process along.

                          As long as your fish are eating all the food you are giving them, there is
                          no harm in continuing feeding. It is far better to underfeed the fish than
                          it is to overfeed the fish. I like to always point out that most fish are
                          opportunistic feeders. If there is food present, they will take the
                          opportunity to eat it.

                          Unless you have an undergravel filter (UGF) you are trying to season, there
                          should be no harm in giving the whole tank a thorough vacuuming. This is
                          somewhat complicated by the fact you have plants present in the tank, and,
                          before I have written this, added more. Do as good a job as you can, without
                          uprooting the plants. Once you have removed 25% of the water, stop, and save
                          the rest for another day. The water changes do not seem to be helping your
                          nitrate level at present, and you have already changed more than 50% of the
                          water in one day. If you notice that you are vacuuming up a lot of detritus
                          from the gravel, do the job daily until the detritus clears. This may very
                          well be the source of your nitrates.

                          If you are using a UGF, do not disturb more than about 1/4 the gravel bed,
                          then wait a few days before doing the next section to give the nitrobacter
                          and nitrosomas bacteria a chance to re-establish equilibrium.

                          In any case, test daily for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

                          Make the substrate cleansing a part of your weekly routine when we have
                          gotten this nitrate thing under control. If you are using a UGF, and you are
                          fortunate to be able to look up under the UGF, look to see what is under
                          there. Generally, it is a collector of detritus of a form called mulm. If
                          this is the case. snake some flexible tubing under the filter, via the
                          uplift tubes, and do your best to clean some of this stuff up. It could be
                          hiding the cause of your high nitrates hidden. This is a difficult thing to
                          do, and mulm generally does not affect water chemistry, so just do the best
                          you can.

                          Be alert for dying and decaying plant parts, as I mentioned yesterday, and
                          remove them as soon as you find them. Especially with new plants as they
                          regenerate themselves to your water and substrate conditions. Many newly
                          planted plants will tend to die off some before coming back to life. Get
                          this stuff out as soon as possible so we know that it is not contributing to
                          the problem.

                          This stuff is a pain in the butt, but eventually, you will find the cause
                          and things will get better. My early days in the hobby preceded the
                          knowledge of a biological cycle as it is understood today. However, we were
                          able to successfully keep and raise fish without the knowledge that is
                          available today. The notion of a balanced aquarium was certainly around, and
                          we used various forms of filtration and we all had live plants, and we
                          managed to have what were referred to as balanced tanks. A lot of it was
                          intuition, without the scientific knowledge to back it up. I still remember
                          my grandmother's tank of guppies from more years ago than I care to count,
                          in her NYC apartment. I remember my father's tanks of angels, including the
                          tank he built himself to fit into a window space for angels specifically. He
                          was able to breed his angels, know far less about water chemistry and
                          requirements than we know today. Don't freak too much about this situation,
                          and don't make rash decisions. reason things out, and you'll do fine.

                          \\Steve//

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
                          Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 5:57 AM
                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrates


                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8905 From: kilmca Date: 3/7/2005
                          Subject: Tank for sale in Maryland
                          72 gallon bow front reef ready tank, pine stand, and pine hood for
                          sale. Located between Baltimore and D.C.. Asking $400.00, obo.
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8906 From: paul helms Date: 3/7/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates
                          test again. the nitrates do not just disappear over
                          night.
                          --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

                          > I vaccuumed 4 gallons of water and gunk from the
                          > gravel, re-rooted some plants and cut off dead parts
                          > of others and cleaned off the plant residue from the
                          > filter intake pipe on Saturday. I tested yesterday
                          > - ammonia and nitrite 0, nitrate 10. This morning,
                          > nitrates were 0. Is this ok? Will they come back?
                          > What did I do wrong?
                          >
                          > Angela
                          >
                          > -------------- Original message --------------
                          > Angela,
                          >
                          > Hold a piece of white paper so you can see a portion
                          > of the paper through
                          > the water in the tank and a portion of the paper
                          > without obstruction. Water
                          > still look clear?
                          >
                          > I had a set of test vials that pretty much took
                          > water color out of
                          > consideration, and just looked up to see if they are
                          > still offered. It looks
                          > like they are, but you may need to do a bit of
                          > looking to find these kits.
                          > They are Aqua-tru kits distributed by Kordon.
                          > Despite the quality of Kordon
                          > products, they have never enjoyed a wide
                          > distribution. However, when I was
                          > looking for this, I found, on their site, in the
                          > sheet on the High Range
                          > Nitrate Test Kit, this information, which may be of
                          > interest:
                          >
                          > "Since the nitrate in solution is converted to
                          > nitrite before the color
                          > compound is formed, any nitrite in solution will
                          > increase the apparent
                          > nitrate concentration. This should be of little
                          > concern in a well
                          > conditioned aquarium or pond since nitrite
                          > concentrations will be very low
                          > with respect to nitrate levels. However, when
                          > conditioning an aquarium,
                          > nitrite levels may be significant when compared to
                          > nitrate levels. In any
                          > such case, the nitrite test should be done in
                          > addition to the nitrate test
                          > for accurate readings. The nitrite reading (mg/L
                          > NO2) reading should be
                          > subracted from the nitrate mg/L NO3) reading to
                          > yield an accurate nitrate
                          > concentration.
                          >
                          > "Chloride will also interfere with the test;
                          > compensation for this
                          > interference has been made in the conversion factor
                          > given. The High Range
                          > Nitrate Kit calibrations are for freshwater
                          > readings, as opposed to the Low
                          > Range Nitrate Kit which is calibrated for saltwater
                          > use. To convert the High
                          > Range Kit readings to saltwater values, multiply by
                          > 2."
                          >
                          > This also means you should ensure you are getting an
                          > accurate reading from
                          > your nitrite kit and that it is not influencing the
                          > reading from the nitrate
                          > kit. Very interesting. (I should add here, that I
                          > may be somewhat biased
                          > toward Kordon products because I know some of the
                          > people involved. I
                          > generally try, however, to be a straight shooter
                          > when recommending products,
                          > because I have actually used them. For instance, I
                          > know personally the guy
                          > who invented Novaqua and Amquel. I do not hesitate
                          > to recommend these
                          > products because I know the guy, but because I have
                          > used them, and know they
                          > work as advertised. He also developed Amquel Plus
                          > and a number of other
                          > products that Kordon distributes under their name,
                          > but I don't out and out
                          > recommend them because I have not used them myself,
                          > however, I would lead
                          > toward recommending them because of my knowledge of
                          > the individual.)
                          >
                          > Cycling a tank with fish in it is rather difficult.
                          > Mainly because we are
                          > concerned with the living animals in it. I have not
                          > followed all your
                          > travails here, but it does seem as though you have a
                          > new, or relatively new,
                          > tank we are dealing with here. I do recall you had
                          > said your ammonia and
                          > nitrites were reading zero. If so, this is good. We
                          > only need to deal with
                          > the nitrates here, and we have the time to do it
                          > properly. As I briefly
                          > touched on, a nitrate level of 80, while not ideal,
                          > is nothing to panic
                          > over. We have the time to closely examine each
                          > possible cause and determine
                          > if there is a fix we can apply to remedy a found
                          > cause. Even long term
                          > exposure to this level of nitrate should not harm
                          > the fish you have in the
                          > tank already. They should be relatively immune to
                          > its effects. Had you
                          > listed a species that is known to be affected by
                          > nitrates, then we might
                          > have to hurry the process along.
                          >
                          > As long as your fish are eating all the food you are
                          > giving them, there is
                          > no harm in continuing feeding. It is far better to
                          > underfeed the fish than
                          > it is to overfeed the fish. I like to always point
                          > out that most fish are
                          > opportunistic feeders. If there is food present,
                          > they will take the
                          > opportunity to eat it.
                          >
                          > Unless you have an undergravel filter (UGF) you are
                          > trying to season, there
                          > should be no harm in giving the whole tank a
                          > thorough vacuuming. This is
                          > somewhat complicated by the fact you have plants
                          > present in the tank, and,
                          > before I have written this, added more. Do as good a
                          > job as you can, without
                          > uprooting the plants. Once you have removed 25% of
                          > the water, stop, and save
                          > the rest for another day. The water changes do not
                          > seem to be helping your
                          > nitrate level at present, and you have already
                          > changed more than 50% of the
                          > water in one day. If you notice that you are
                          > vacuuming up a lot of detritus
                          > from the gravel, do the job daily until the detritus
                          > clears. This may very
                          > well be the source of your nitrates.
                          >
                          > If you are using a UGF, do not disturb more than
                          > about 1/4 the gravel bed,
                          > then wait a few days before doing the next section
                          > to give the nitrobacter
                          > and nitrosomas bacteria a chance to re-establish
                          > equilibrium.
                          >
                          > In any case, test daily for ammonia, nitrite, and
                          > nitrate.
                          >
                          > Make the substrate cleansing a part of your weekly
                          > routine when we have
                          > gotten this nitrate thing under control. If you are
                          > using a UGF, and you are
                          > fortunate to be able to look up under the UGF, look
                          > to see what is under
                          > there. Generally, it is a collector of detritus of a
                          > form called mulm. If
                          > this is the case. snake some flexible tubing under
                          > the filter, via the
                          > uplift tubes, and do your best to clean some of this
                          > stuff up. It could be
                          > hiding the cause of your high nitrates hidden. This
                          > is a difficult thing to
                          > do, and mulm generally does not affect water
                          > chemistry, so just do the best
                          > you can.
                          >
                          > Be alert for dying and decaying plant parts, as I
                          > mentioned yesterday, and
                          > remove them as soon as you find them. Especially
                          > with new plants as they
                          > regenerate themselves to your water and substrate
                          > conditions. Many newly
                          > planted plants will tend to die off some before
                          > coming back to life. Get
                          > this stuff out as soon as possible so we know that
                          > it is not contributing to
                          > the problem.
                          >
                          > This stuff is a pain in the butt, but eventually,
                          > you will find the cause
                          > and things will get better. My early days in the
                          > hobby preceded the
                          > knowledge of a biological cycle as it is understood
                          > today. However, we were
                          > able to successfully keep and raise fish without the
                          > knowledge that is
                          > available today. The notion of a balanced aquarium
                          > was certainly around, and
                          > we used various forms of filtration and we all had
                          > live plants, and we
                          > managed to have what were referred to as balanced
                          > tanks. A lot of it was
                          > intuition, without the scientific knowledge to back
                          > it
                          === message truncated ===





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                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8907 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/7/2005
                          Subject: MarineBio chat , 3/7/2005, 5:00 pm
                          Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
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                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8908 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/7/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates
                          You're right.  I just tested again, and it's 10.  Is this a good sign?  (The 10 for nitrates, not the fact that I messed up the test!! ha ha)
                           
                          -------------- Original message --------------
                          test again.  the nitrates do not just disappear over
                          night. 
                          --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

                          > I vaccuumed 4 gallons of water and gunk from the
                          > gravel, re-rooted some plants and cut off dead parts
                          > of others and cleaned off the plant residue from the
                          > filter intake pipe on Saturday.  I tested yesterday
                          > - ammonia and nitrite 0, nitrate 10.  This morning,
                          > nitrates were 0.  Is this ok?  Will they come back?
                          > What did I do wrong?
                          >
                          > Angela
                          >
                          > -------------- Original message --------------
                          >
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8909 From: mrfabus Date: 3/7/2005
                          Subject: Re: Snowflake eels and gar pike
                          The gar are spotted gar Im believing and they are about 9 in long
                          while the snowflake eels are about 14 in long. The eels wont fit in
                          the snots but I was just asking cause i thought they grab on to the
                          eels with there teeth. But I am going to keep the tank stocked with
                          food so I was just asking.
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8910 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/7/2005
                          Subject: Newbie
                          Hi All,

                          I'm new to this group. My name's Valeen. My husband & I live in
                          the San Francisco Bay Area. We currently have a FW tank with
                          some rummy-noses, glow lights, cardinals, a pleco & 1 angel; a
                          marine tank cycling with some liverock & 2 betta tanks -- 1 with a
                          crowntail named CT2 and 2 African Dwarf Frogs & 1 with 2
                          veiltails named BB & Calico.

                          -Valeen
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8911 From: Rob And Joyce Date: 3/7/2005
                          Subject: THANKS FOR THE INVITE!
                          I pretty excited about being invited to this group. I see ALOT of names from previous groups and it'll be nice to re-establish comunications with you all again. Sincerely, Rob.
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8912 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 3/7/2005
                          Subject: Re: Newbie
                          Hi Valeen,
                          Welcome to the group! I am sure you will enjoy it and get some valuable info.
                          Dorothy

                          Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:

                          Hi All,

                          I'm new to this group. My name's Valeen. My husband & I live in
                          the San Francisco Bay Area. We currently have a FW tank with
                          some rummy-noses, glow lights, cardinals, a pleco & 1 angel; a
                          marine tank cycling with some liverock & 2 betta tanks -- 1 with a
                          crowntail named CT2 and 2 African Dwarf Frogs & 1 with 2
                          veiltails named BB & Calico.

                          -Valeen





                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                          .
                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8913 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/7/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates

                          10 is a good sign but then how did you bring the nitrates down from 80 to 10? Did you do a 80% water change?

                           

                          As Paul said, Nitrates don’t disappear overnight and the only ways to reduce nitrates from the tank are: Water changes with low nitrate water, Excessive plant growth with high light and good CO2, Nitrate adsorbing resins like nitrazorb, Nitrate reactors.

                           

                          If you did not do a 80% water changes then only way you could have got the nitrates down from 80ppm is by about 10 50% water changes. If you did not do either of these, then I am doubtful on the efficiency of the kits.

                           

                          Nim

                           

                           


                          From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
                          Sent: 07 March 2005 17:40
                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrates

                           

                          You're right.  I just tested again, and it's 10.  Is this a good sign?  (The 10 for nitrates, not the fact that I messed up the test!! ha ha)

                           

                          -------------- Original message --------------
                          test again.  the nitrates do not just disappear over
                          night. 
                          --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

                          > I vaccuumed 4 gallons of water and gunk from the
                          > gravel, re-rooted some plants and cut off dead parts
                          > of others and cleaned off the plant residue from the
                          > filter intake pipe on Saturday.  I tested yesterday
                          > - ammonia and nitrite 0, nitrate 10.  This morning,
                          > nitrates were 0.  Is this ok?  Will they come back?
                          > What did I do wrong?
                          >
                          > Angela
                          >
                          > -------------- Original message --------------
                          >



                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                          .
                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8914 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 3/7/2005
                          Subject: Re: THANKS FOR THE INVITE!
                          Hi Rob,  Good to see you again.  I always did enjoy your frank and to the point posts.  How's everything up around Buffalo way?  Get enough snow so far this year?  Last I understood, you either had a lfs or was working in one (don't quite remember).  Hope everything's going okay for you.  Regards,  Ray
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8915 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/7/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates
                          Over the past 6 days, I have changed 4, then 8, then 4 with vaccuuming gallons of water in a 20 gallon tank.  I have plants and have gotten more.  The lights are on about 12 hours a day for the plants.
                           
                          -------------- Original message --------------

                          10 is a good sign but then how did you bring the nitrates down from 80 to 10? Did you do a 80% water change?

                           

                          As Paul said, Nitrates don�t disappear overnight and the only ways to reduce nitrates from the tank are: Water changes with low nitrate water, Excessive plant growth with high light and good CO2, Nitrate adsorbing resins like nitrazorb, Nitrate reactors.

                           

                          If you did not do a 80% water changes then only way you could have got the nitrates down from 80ppm is by about 10 50% water changes. If you did not do either of these, then I am doubtful on the efficiency of the kits.

                           

                          Nim

                           

                           


                          From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
                          Sent: 07 March 2005 17:40
                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrates

                           

                          You're right.  I just tested again, and it's 10.  Is this a good sign?  (The 10 for nitrates, not the fact that I messed up the test!! ha ha)

                           

                          -------------- Original message --------------
                          test again.  the nitrates do not just disappear over
                          night. 
                          --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

                          > I vaccuumed 4 gallons of water and gunk from the
                          > gravel, re-rooted some plants and cut off dead parts
                          > of others and cleaned off the plant residue from the
                          > filter intake pipe on Saturday.  I tested yesterday
                          > - ammonia and nitrite 0, nitrate 10.  This morning,
                          > nitrates were 0.  Is this ok?  Will they come back?
                          > What did I do wrong?
                          >
                          > Angela
                          >
                          > -------------- Original message --------------
                          >



                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                          .
                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter






                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                          .
                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8916 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/7/2005
                          Subject: Re: Nitrates

                          It really does not look like if the nitrates can come down from 80 to 10 when they were rising so fast by the water changes you have done. Light alone is not enough for plants to bring nitrates down and intensity is more important then duration along with proper CO2 addition.

                           

                          Very strange. Can you get your water tested by your local fish store and see what his results are?

                           

                          Nim

                           

                           


                          From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
                          Sent: 07 March 2005 22:11
                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrates

                           

                          Over the past 6 days, I have changed 4, then 8, then 4 with vaccuuming gallons of water in a 20 gallon tank.  I have plants and have gotten more.  The lights are on about 12 hours a day for the plants.

                           

                          -------------- Original message --------------

                          10 is a good sign but then how did you bring the nitrates down from 80 to 10? Did you do a 80% water change?

                           

                          As Paul said, Nitrates don’t disappear overnight and the only ways to reduce nitrates from the tank are: Water changes with low nitrate water, Excessive plant growth with high light and good CO2, Nitrate adsorbing resins like nitrazorb, Nitrate reactors.

                           

                          If you did not do a 80% water changes then only way you could have got the nitrates down from 80ppm is by about 10 50% water changes. If you did not do either of these, then I am doubtful on the efficiency of the kits.

                           

                          Nim

                           

                           


                          From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
                          Sent: 07 March 2005 17:40
                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrates

                           

                          You're right.  I just tested again, and it's 10.  Is this a good sign?  (The 10 for nitrates, not the fact that I messed up the test!! ha ha)

                           

                          -------------- Original message --------------
                          test again.  the nitrates do not just disappear over
                          night. 
                          --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

                          > I vaccuumed 4 gallons of water and gunk from the
                          > gravel, re-rooted some plants and cut off dead parts
                          > of others and cleaned off the plant residue from the
                          > filter intake pipe on Saturday.  I tested yesterday
                          > - ammonia and nitrite 0, nitrate 10.  This morning,
                          > nitrates were 0.  Is this ok?  Will they come back?
                          > What did I do wrong?
                          >
                          > Angela
                          >
                          > -------------- Original message --------------
                          >



                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                          .
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                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                          .
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                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8917 From: m senter Date: 3/7/2005
                          Subject: Re: Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
                          Attachments :
                             
                             I have a female sword tail and the other fish are eating or tearing her tail fin off. She is  pregnant and she is not the smallest or the newest fish in the tank. Why are they doing this and how do i put a stop to it.
                             
                             
                            How long can a fish be pregnant?  Can they be pregnant with 2 different set of fish at once. I know this sounds funny but one of my mollies just had babies and now she is fat again and looks as big or bigger then the first time she had babies about a week and a half ago.
                             
                            How do you tell when they are about to have babies the breeder tank says to put the fish in a couple days before they are do.
                             
                            How do i know when she is done having them?
                             
                            Melissa 
                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8918 From: Steve Date: 3/7/2005
                            Subject: Re: Nitrates
                            Angela,

                            Like the others have said, it does seem to be pretty miraculous for the
                            nitrates to plummet to 10 from 80, based on the changes you made. Removing
                            the plant material and the detritus only removed probable sources for
                            nitrate, not nitrate itself. That is done via the water changes and/or the
                            plant growth in your tank. Your plants did not suddenly grow more lush, did
                            they?

                            With the 16 gallons of water you changed over the last few days, you did
                            pretty close to a 100% water change in a typical 20 gallon tank. However,
                            the first 12 gallons that were changed did not seem to make a difference in
                            your readings, as they should have. Is it possible that the tests were done
                            wrong when gaining the readings to start?

                            Now that your nitrate level is down. continue good maintenance practices,
                            and you should not need to worry about them again, unless your plant s show
                            signs of ill health <g>.

                            \\Steve//

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
                            Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 8:48 AM
                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrates


                            I vaccuumed 4 gallons of water and gunk from the gravel, re-rooted some
                            plants and cut off dead parts of others and cleaned off the plant residue
                            from the filter intake pipe on Saturday. I tested yesterday - ammonia and
                            nitrite 0, nitrate 10. This morning, nitrates were 0. Is this ok? Will
                            they come back? What did I do wrong?

                            Angela

                            -------------- Original message --------------
                            Angela,

                            Hold a piece of white paper so you can see a portion of the paper through
                            the water in the tank and a portion of the paper without obstruction. Water
                            still look clear?

                            I had a set of test vials that pretty much took water color out of
                            consideration, and just looked up to see if they are still offered. It looks
                            like they are, but you may need to do a bit of looking to find these kits.
                            They are Aqua-tru kits distributed by Kordon. Despite the quality of Kordon
                            products, they have never enjoyed a wide distribution. However, when I was
                            looking for this, I found, on their site, in the sheet on the High Range
                            Nitrate Test Kit, this information, which may be of interest:

                            "Since the nitrate in solution is converted to nitrite before the color
                            compound is formed, any nitrite in solution will increase the apparent
                            nitrate concentration. This should be of little concern in a well
                            conditioned aquarium or pond since nitrite concentrations will be very low
                            with respect to nitrate levels. However, when conditioning an aquarium,
                            nitrite levels may be significant when compared to nitrate levels. In any
                            such case, the nitrite test should be done in addition to the nitrate test
                            for accurate readings. The nitrite reading (mg/L NO2) reading should be
                            subracted from the nitrate mg/L NO3) reading to yield an accurate nitrate
                            concentration.

                            "Chloride will also interfere with the test; compensation for this
                            interference has been made in the conversion factor given. The High Range
                            Nitrate Kit calibrations are for freshwater readings, as opposed to the Low
                            Range Nitrate Kit which is calibrated for saltwater use. To convert the High
                            Range Kit readings to saltwater values, multiply by 2."

                            This also means you should ensure you are getting an accurate reading from
                            your nitrite kit and that it is not influencing the reading from the nitrate
                            kit. Very interesting. (I should add here, that I may be somewhat biased
                            toward Kordon products because I know some of the people involved. I
                            generally try, however, to be a straight shooter when recommending products,
                            because I have actually used them. For instance, I know personally the guy
                            who invented Novaqua and Amquel. I do not hesitate to recommend these
                            products because I know the guy, but because I have used them, and know they
                            work as advertised. He also developed Amquel Plus and a number of other
                            products that Kordon distributes under their name, but I don't out and out
                            recommend them because I have not used them myself, however, I would lead
                            toward recommending them because of my knowledge of the individual.)

                            Cycling a tank with fish in it is rather difficult. Mainly because we are
                            concerned with the living animals in it. I have not followed all your
                            travails here, but it does seem as though you have a new, or relatively new,
                            tank we are dealing with here. I do recall you had said your ammonia and
                            nitrites were reading zero. If so, this is good. We only need to deal with
                            the nitrates here, and we have the time to do it properly. As I briefly
                            touched on, a nitrate level of 80, while not ideal, is nothing to panic
                            over. We have the time to closely examine each possible cause and determine
                            if there is a fix we can apply to remedy a found cause. Even long term
                            exposure to this level of nitrate should not harm the fish you have in the
                            tank already. They should be relatively immune to its effects. Had you
                            listed a species that is known to be affected by nitrates, then we might
                            have to hurry the process along.

                            As long as your fish are eating all the food you are giving them, there is
                            no harm in continuing feeding. It is far better to underfeed the fish than
                            it is to overfeed the fish. I like to always point out that most fish are
                            opportunistic feeders. If there is food present, they will take the
                            opportunity to eat it.

                            Unless you have an undergravel filter (UGF) you are trying to season, there
                            should be no harm in giving the whole tank a thorough vacuuming. This is
                            somewhat complicated by the fact you have plants present in the tank, and,
                            before I have written this, added more. Do as good a job as you can, without
                            uprooting the plants. Once you have removed 25% of the water, stop, and save
                            the rest for another day. The water changes do not seem to be helping your
                            nitrate level at present, and you have already changed more than 50% of the
                            water in one day. If you notice that you are vacuuming up a lot of detritus
                            from the gravel, do the job daily until the detritus clears. This may very
                            well be the source of your nitrates.

                            If you are using a UGF, do not disturb more than about 1/4 the gravel bed,
                            then wait a few days before doing the next section to give the nitrobacter
                            and nitrosomas bacteria a chance to re-establish equilibrium.

                            In any case, test daily for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

                            Make the substrate cleansing a part of your weekly routine when we have
                            gotten this nitrate thing under control. If you are using a UGF, and you are
                            fortunate to be able to look up under the UGF, look to see what is under
                            there. Generally, it is a collector of detritus of a form called mulm. If
                            this is the case. snake some flexible tubing under the filter, via the
                            uplift tubes, and do your best to clean some of this stuff up. It could be
                            hiding the cause of your high nitrates hidden. This is a difficult thing to
                            do, and mulm generally does not affect water chemistry, so just do the best
                            you can.

                            Be alert for dying and decaying plant parts, as I mentioned yesterday, and
                            remove them as soon as you find them. Especially with new plants as they
                            regenerate themselves to your water and substrate conditions. Many newly
                            planted plants will tend to die off some before coming back to life. Get
                            this stuff out as soon as possible so we know that it is not contributing to
                            the problem.

                            This stuff is a pain in the butt, but eventually, you will find the cause
                            and things will get better. My early days in the hobby preceded the
                            knowledge of a biological cycle as it is understood today. However, we were
                            able to successfully keep and raise fish without the knowledge that is
                            available today. The notion of a balanced aquarium was certainly around, and
                            we used various forms of filtration and we all had live plants, and we
                            managed to have what were referred to as balanced tanks. A lot of it was
                            intuition, without the scientific knowledge to back it up. I still remember
                            my grandmother's tank of guppies from more years ago than I care to count,
                            in her NYC apartment. I remember my father's tanks of angels, including the
                            tank he built himself to fit into a window space for angels specifically. He
                            was able to breed his angels, know far less about water chemistry and
                            requirements than we know today. Don't freak too much about this situation,
                            and don't make rash decisions. reason things out, and you'll do fine.

                            \\Steve//
                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8919 From: eric douglas Date: 3/7/2005
                            Subject: Re: Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
                            Hi,
                            Platys, mollys and guppies store the sperm from the
                            sex they have. If the creature were human, we men
                            would be out of bussiness.
                            --- m senter <msenter@...> wrote:

                            >
                            > I have a female sword tail and the other fish are
                            > eating or tearing her
                            > tail fin off. She is pregnant and she is not the
                            > smallest or the newest
                            > fish in the tank. Why are they doing this and how do
                            > i put a stop to it.
                            >
                            >
                            > How long can a fish be pregnant? Can they be
                            > pregnant with 2 different set
                            > of fish at once. I know this sounds funny but one of
                            > my mollies just had
                            > babies and now she is fat again and looks as big or
                            > bigger then the first
                            > time she had babies about a week and a half ago.
                            >
                            > How do you tell when they are about to have babies
                            > the breeder tank says to
                            > put the fish in a couple days before they are do.
                            >
                            > How do i know when she is done having them?
                            >
                            > Melissa





                            __________________________________
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                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8920 From: m senter Date: 3/7/2005
                            Subject: Re: Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
                            Attachments :
                               
                              lol
                               
                              melissa 
                               
                              -------Original Message-------
                               
                              Date: 03/07/05 19:23:24
                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
                               
                              Hi,
                              Platys, mollys and guppies store the sperm from the
                              sex they have. If the creature were human, we men
                              would be out of bussiness.
                              --- m senter <msenter@indy.rr.com> wrote:


                              >  I have a female sword tail and the other fish are
                              > eating or tearing her
                              > tail fin off. She is  pregnant and she is not the
                              > smallest or the newest
                              > fish in the tank. Why are they doing this and how do
                              > i put a stop to it.
                              >
                              >
                              > How long can a fish be pregnant?  Can they be
                              > pregnant with 2 different set
                              > of fish at once. I know this sounds funny but one of
                              > my mollies just had
                              > babies and now she is fat again and looks as big or
                              > bigger then the first
                              > time she had babies about a week and a half ago.
                              >
                              > How do you tell when they are about to have babies
                              > the breeder tank says to
                              > put the fish in a couple days before they are do.
                              >
                              > How do i know when she is done having them?
                              >
                              > Melissa



                                   
                                         
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                              http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/


                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                              ..
                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                               

                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8921 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/7/2005
                              Subject: yabbies in a community tank? good/bad idea?
                              Hi,

                              got a yabbie (small australian cray fish) for may tank, its about
                              the same size as my guppies at the moment.

                              Should i keep it in the community tank?

                              =Nicolas
                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8922 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/7/2005
                              Subject: Re: Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
                              I have a heap of guppies in my tank, normally the guppies will be
                              pregnant for a while and they seem to refuseto give birth when they
                              are being harrased by the male fish.

                              I do a water change then put them in the breeding tank, i find the
                              water change seems to encourage the guppie to give birth more
                              quickly wonce in the breeding tank.

                              Afterwards the guppie is thin when looking from the top but not too
                              much thiner when looking from the side.

                              generally within 1 week of returning to the community tank the
                              guppies are pregnant again.

                              not too certain when its best to put guppies into breeding tank, i
                              normally do it when the female starts to attack my other fish cause
                              they are so visious.

                              the males usually attack / bit teaseingly the pregnant guppie so i
                              suppose the best way to stop em is to put it in a breeding tank when
                              they start to get attacked.

                              My guppies usually hide in the corner of two large rocks and turn
                              around and protect them selves, also ive seen them shooting full
                              speed threw the plants. If you can make sure there are lots of
                              places for your fish to hide. Even stacking a few pebbles up so they
                              make a tunnel seems to help offer protection.


                              General note, out of the fish in my tank ive decided the guppies are
                              the most dangerous fish to keep. The sharks, barbs, simese fighter
                              all seem tame compaired to the guppies but that could be because the
                              other fish havn't reached maturrity yet.

                              =nick


                              ps: got two swords the other day, think ones a male and the others a
                              female. How did you get them to mate?



                              > --- m senter <msenter@i...> wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              > > I have a female sword tail and the other fish are
                              > > eating or tearing her
                              > > tail fin off. She is pregnant and she is not the
                              > > smallest or the newest
                              > > fish in the tank. Why are they doing this and how do
                              > > i put a stop to it.
                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8923 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/7/2005
                              Subject: Re: THANKS FOR THE INVITE!
                              welcome to the group Bucks..

                              rob
                              NE Indiana


                              In a message dated 3/7/2005 4:45:45 PM US Eastern Standard Time, bucks_boogie@... writes:


                              I pretty excited about being invited to this group.  I see ALOT of names from previous groups and it'll be nice to re-establish comunications with you all again.  Sincerely, Rob.


                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8924 From: paul helms Date: 3/7/2005
                              Subject: Re: Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
                              the swords are live bearers just like teh guppy. the
                              male has a pronounced sword extending from the bottom
                              of the rear fin, and the female has a flat rear tail.
                              color should be similar. like other live bearers,
                              they do not need to be encouraged to breed. if you
                              have one of each they will do their things. as for
                              the female guppies, they would be pregnant again after
                              1 week even if left in a separate tank. they retain
                              semen from the male for an additional 2-3 birthings,
                              yielding up to 4 pregnancies of up to 40 babies each
                              time with just one mating.
                              --- "Nicolas J. Munro" <nedarg@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I have a heap of guppies in my tank, normally the
                              > guppies will be
                              > pregnant for a while and they seem to refuseto give
                              > birth when they
                              > are being harrased by the male fish.
                              >
                              > I do a water change then put them in the breeding
                              > tank, i find the
                              > water change seems to encourage the guppie to give
                              > birth more
                              > quickly wonce in the breeding tank.
                              >
                              > Afterwards the guppie is thin when looking from the
                              > top but not too
                              > much thiner when looking from the side.
                              >
                              > generally within 1 week of returning to the
                              > community tank the
                              > guppies are pregnant again.
                              >
                              > not too certain when its best to put guppies into
                              > breeding tank, i
                              > normally do it when the female starts to attack my
                              > other fish cause
                              > they are so visious.
                              >
                              > the males usually attack / bit teaseingly the
                              > pregnant guppie so i
                              > suppose the best way to stop em is to put it in a
                              > breeding tank when
                              > they start to get attacked.
                              >
                              > My guppies usually hide in the corner of two large
                              > rocks and turn
                              > around and protect them selves, also ive seen them
                              > shooting full
                              > speed threw the plants. If you can make sure there
                              > are lots of
                              > places for your fish to hide. Even stacking a few
                              > pebbles up so they
                              > make a tunnel seems to help offer protection.
                              >
                              >
                              > General note, out of the fish in my tank ive decided
                              > the guppies are
                              > the most dangerous fish to keep. The sharks, barbs,
                              > simese fighter
                              > all seem tame compaired to the guppies but that
                              > could be because the
                              > other fish havn't reached maturrity yet.
                              >
                              > =nick
                              >
                              >
                              > ps: got two swords the other day, think ones a male
                              > and the others a
                              > female. How did you get them to mate?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > > --- m senter <msenter@i...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > >
                              > > > I have a female sword tail and the other fish
                              > are
                              > > > eating or tearing her
                              > > > tail fin off. She is pregnant and she is not
                              > the
                              > > > smallest or the newest
                              > > > fish in the tank. Why are they doing this and
                              > how do
                              > > > i put a stop to it.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >




                              __________________________________
                              Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                              Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
                              http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8925 From: paul helms Date: 3/7/2005
                              Subject: Re: Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
                              your live bearer can have 3-4 clutches with one mating
                              --- m senter <msenter@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I have a female sword tail and the other fish are
                              > eating or tearing her
                              > tail fin off. She is pregnant and she is not the
                              > smallest or the newest
                              > fish in the tank. Why are they doing this and how do
                              > i put a stop to it.
                              >
                              >
                              > How long can a fish be pregnant? Can they be
                              > pregnant with 2 different set
                              > of fish at once. I know this sounds funny but one of
                              > my mollies just had
                              > babies and now she is fat again and looks as big or
                              > bigger then the first
                              > time she had babies about a week and a half ago.
                              >
                              > How do you tell when they are about to have babies
                              > the breeder tank says to
                              > put the fish in a couple days before they are do.
                              >
                              > How do i know when she is done having them?
                              >
                              > Melissa




                              __________________________________
                              Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                              Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
                              http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8926 From: paul helms Date: 3/7/2005
                              Subject: Re: Snowflake eels and gar pike
                              the eels may grab the gar by the belly if not fed
                              well. be careful not to over feed though. pike gar
                              are alligator gar, and do not get all that fat, but do
                              grow very large, so make sure the tank is large
                              enough....eventually 100-150 will be necessary
                              --- mrfabus <mrfabus@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > The gar are spotted gar Im believing and they are
                              > about 9 in long
                              > while the snowflake eels are about 14 in long. The
                              > eels wont fit in
                              > the snots but I was just asking cause i thought they
                              > grab on to the
                              > eels with there teeth. But I am going to keep the
                              > tank stocked with
                              > food so I was just asking.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >




                              __________________________________
                              Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                              Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
                              http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8927 From: mrfabus Date: 3/7/2005
                              Subject: Snowflake eels
                              Two questions what should I feewd them I have been giving them
                              guppies and gold fish . But Im always looking for new ideas. Also Im
                              going to buy each one a pipe to hide in what size should I get.

                              Thank you for any help
                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8929 From: Amalthea Date: 3/8/2005
                              Subject: cories question...
                              i've noticed over the past few months that periodically my albino
                              cories, though only one at a time, will zip up to the top of the tank,
                              break the surface (which makes a surprisingly loud popping sound) and
                              then zip right back down to the bottom. none of them are behaving oddly
                              otherwise, and it's not always the same one. generally they just pack
                              together on the bottom like a bunch of little dogs. has anyone ever
                              observed this "zipping" behavior before, and if so, why are they doing
                              it?
                              amalthea
                              http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                              Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8930 From: Steve Date: 3/8/2005
                              Subject: Re: cories question...
                              Amalthea,

                              This is normal behavior for corys. They grab a breath of fresh air when
                              doing this.

                              \\Steve//

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                              Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 4:22 AM
                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [AquaticLife] cories question...


                              i've noticed over the past few months that periodically my albino cories,
                              though only one at a time, will zip up to the top of the tank, break the
                              surface (which makes a surprisingly loud popping sound) and then zip right
                              back down to the bottom. none of them are behaving oddly otherwise, and it's
                              not always the same one. generally they just pack together on the bottom
                              like a bunch of little dogs. has anyone ever observed this "zipping"
                              behavior before, and if so, why are they doing it?
                              amalthea
                              http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                              Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8931 From: Elyse Date: 3/8/2005
                              Subject: Best substrate and lighting for plant tanks??
                              Attachments :
                                Hi all:

                                I have decided to venture into something new. I am going to convert 2 of my
                                55's into plant tanks.

                                Can anyone recommend the best substrate and lighting for good healthy
                                growth?

                                Also, what kind of fertilizer or additives are best?


                                Thanks!
                                Elyse
                                elyse@elyserachel.com
                                AIM: ElyseRachel

                                Canine Castaway's Inc.
                                www.CanineCastaways.org
                                www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
                                The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
                                The Tropical Fish Connection:
                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/
                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8932 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2005
                                Subject: Re: Best substrate and lighting for plant tanks??
                                Attachments :
                                  Hi Elyse,

                                  There are a lot of options in both substrates and lighting depending on the
                                  budget. If you want to go for a high light planted tank then you also need
                                  to consider a proper CO2 injection method. Nothing really beats the
                                  pressurized CO2 but that's expensive kit and a 55 gallon tank may not be
                                  able to benefit much from the yeast sugar method.

                                  Cheapest options: Fine gravel substrate with crushed flourish tabs at the
                                  bottom and Plenty of T8 lighting (Ideally plant growth lamps)
                                  Better option but messy: Soil substrate with heating cable and topped with
                                  coarse sand, Light can be T8 or T5s
                                  Better but not messy option: Coarse sand substrate with flourish tabs at the
                                  bottom, heating cable and T5 or Power compact lighting
                                  Expensive but good option: Flourite substrate with T5 or Power compact
                                  lighting
                                  Another expensive option: Flourite with heating cable and crushed flourish
                                  tabs at the bottom and Metal halide lighting (investigate on the bulbs
                                  needed)
                                  Best but most expensive: A Mixture of latarite gravel and fluorite with some
                                  flourish tabs at the bottom with a combination of a Halide and a compact
                                  fluorescent bulb to offer the best CRI and plant growth.

                                  I am presently having the second last option with just Halide lightings but
                                  am not very impressed with the CRI of the cheap bulbs I bought (5200K BLV).
                                  They are intense and bright but waste a lot in the green part of the
                                  spectrum and do not have a very good CRI (Atleast not in the red area). So I
                                  am planning to supplement it with a T8 to get better CRI. Plants have
                                  responded well to just the halide though.

                                  I am also in the middle of investigation a lot of options on this front so
                                  if you have any views, do let me know as we both can benefit from this :-)

                                  Nim


                                  _____________________________________________
                                  From: Elyse [mailto:elyse@elyserachel.com]
                                  Sent: 08 March 2005 12:08
                                  To: TropicalFishConnection@yahoogroups.com
                                  Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Best substrate and lighting for plant tanks??

                                  Hi all:

                                  I have decided to venture into something new. I am going to convert 2 of my
                                  55's into plant tanks.

                                  Can anyone recommend the best substrate and lighting for good healthy
                                  growth?

                                  Also, what kind of fertilizer or additives are best?


                                  Thanks!
                                  Elyse
                                  elyse@elyserachel.com
                                  AIM: ElyseRachel

                                  Canine Castaway's Inc.
                                  www.CanineCastaways.org
                                  www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
                                  The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
                                  The Tropical Fish Connection:
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8934 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Re: cories question...
                                  This is normal behavior for Cory's; they are taking a gulp and filling their gut with that gulp of air.  It is a very infrequent and random behavior which they hurriedly do when you least expect it  -- seemingly no rhyme or reason to it as observed by the owner.  Ray
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8935 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Re: Snowflake eels and gar pike
                                  Paul has a good point -- these Florida Spotted Gars (related to the Alligator Gar) can get to about 30".  They should really have at least a 120, or better, a 150 gallon tank as a MINUMUM.  A caution -- while feeder goldfish may be a good food, its best to have a second tank of them in quarantine, rotating stock as you get a new supply.  They can bring in disease and parsites and it only takes once to have your Gar infected.  Ray
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8936 From: mrfabus Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: snowflake eels
                                  Two questions what should I feewd them I have been giving them
                                  guppies and gold fish . But Im always looking for new ideas. Also Im
                                  going to buy each one a pipe to hide in what size should I get.

                                  Thank you for any help
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8937 From: TC@};- Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Newbie w/Q
                                  Hi I'm TC,, Hubby was given a 75 gal tank that was used for a
                                  lizard. it has a quarter size hole in the bottom.... can we patch
                                  something like that to hold, for a fish tank use,,, or would it just
                                  be better to get a whole new bottom glass? Any tips would help alot,
                                  Thanks TC

                                  Fix the tank then go to setting up,, more questions to follow, lol
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8938 From: Jeff Jones Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
                                  Hi TC,
                                  I was given a tank that sounds similiar to yours. I was able to patch
                                  mine and so far so good. I used a square piece of glass and a fair
                                  amount of aquarium sealant and let it cure for several days. I then
                                  tested it on the outside porch by placing the tank on a couple of 2 x
                                  4's and filling it with a water. I let it sit that way for a couple
                                  of days before setting it up inside, that was over 2 years
                                  ago.......wouldn't have done this if it would have been on a 2nd
                                  floor though.

                                  Jeff

                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "TC@};-" <tc_doucet2001@y...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi I'm TC,, Hubby was given a 75 gal tank that was used for a
                                  > lizard. it has a quarter size hole in the bottom.... can we patch
                                  > something like that to hold, for a fish tank use,,, or would it
                                  just
                                  > be better to get a whole new bottom glass? Any tips would help
                                  alot,
                                  > Thanks TC
                                  >
                                  > Fix the tank then go to setting up,, more questions to follow, lol
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8939 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Hi all
                                  Thanks for the invite!

                                  Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Steve. Been fishkeeping for now 6
                                  years roughly. Started with goldfish and bad advice from a pet store and
                                  now have a 60-gallon hex FW, 20 gallon FW, and a 10 gallon crayfish tank.
                                  Soon to be adding a pond to all of that.

                                  In the process of replanting the 60 and 20 after the move. My oldest are my
                                  two common plecs, Ataru and Goemon, both 1.2' long, and my 3 blue gouramis,
                                  all roughly 4-5 years old.

                                  Hope I don't scare anyone off to quickly. Yall have a good one!

                                  -Steve
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8940 From: TC@};- Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q/Jeff
                                  Thanks Jeff, nice to know all is not lost and that my idea is
                                  workable and i can talk my 6 yr old out of wanting a lizzard or
                                  hamster. I'd rather fish,, lol Thanks a bunch< TC
                                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Jones" <jeffjonestx@y...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi TC,
                                  > I was given a tank that sounds similiar to yours. I was able to
                                  patch
                                  > mine and so far so good. I used a square piece of glass and a fair
                                  > amount of aquarium sealant and let it cure for several days. I
                                  then
                                  > tested it on the outside porch by placing the tank on a couple of
                                  2 x
                                  > 4's and filling it with a water. I let it sit that way for a
                                  couple
                                  > of days before setting it up inside, that was over 2 years
                                  > ago.......wouldn't have done this if it would have been on a 2nd
                                  > floor though.
                                  >
                                  > Jeff
                                  >
                                  > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "TC@};-" <tc_doucet2001@y...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Hi I'm TC,, Hubby was given a 75 gal tank that was used for a
                                  > > lizard. it has a quarter size hole in the bottom.... can we
                                  patch
                                  > > something like that to hold, for a fish tank use,,, or would it
                                  > just
                                  > > be better to get a whole new bottom glass? Any tips would help
                                  > alot,
                                  > > Thanks TC
                                  > >
                                  > > Fix the tank then go to setting up,, more questions to follow,
                                  lol
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8941 From: peiperco Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: New Member
                                  Hello,

                                  I'm so glad I found this list. My name is Melissa. I live in the KC,
                                  MO Metro area.

                                  We have 2 Shar-Pei dogs and a number of gold fish and pond snails in
                                  our backyard pond. We even get Toads that come to mate and lay their
                                  eggs in our pond!

                                  My family used to keep fresh water fish and Dwarf Frogs in an
                                  aquarium a few years ago, but they have all died since :(

                                  The reason I am joining now, is I would like to set up a Viquarium to
                                  keep a couple of Fire-Bellied Toads along with some gold fish, that
                                  are bigger than the toads of course, in. I have been doing some
                                  research, still have alot more to do, so I thought I would join a
                                  couple of groups. I'll take a look in the archives and check out the
                                  files and links.

                                  I am wondering if anyone else has a Viquarium that they are keeping
                                  amphibians and fish in together? And what their experience has been?
                                  I am planning on building my own Viquarium from scratch and will
                                  include a rock waterfall and living plants.

                                  Thanks,
                                  Melissa
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8942 From: Charlene Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: HI I need some help again,
                                  HI I need some help again. I am standing my frist saltwater tank. I
                                  need to know a couple of things.

                                  1. I have 3 maxi-jet 1200. Where would I put them in the tank and how
                                  much water mooement ( fow in tank ) should I have? Sould I put them
                                  togother for a 55 gal tank? Or Do I have to buy something eles for
                                  the water mooement?

                                  2. I also have 1 Rio 3100 pump and 1 Rio 800 pump. How did I hook
                                  them up to the tank and where in my tank, sould I put them? Or do I
                                  have to got something for them?

                                  3. And I all so have 2 hydrometer. 1 is a gravity meter And the
                                  other 1 is a big one ( the same thing on it) Can any one tell mehow
                                  much salt should the meter read? And how much salt should I put in my
                                  tank for a 55 ga tank.

                                  Thank you all for helping me with this.



                                  Charlene muffin4494@...
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8943 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
                                  Oh, no, no, no. Don't plug that hole. You have "drilled" tank. Most of
                                  us have to pay money to put those holes in.

                                  Having a drilled tank allows you to easily plumb it for a sump without
                                  having to use an overflow box.

                                  Basically, you install a bulkhead (which allows PVC pipe to pass through a
                                  glass wall without leaks) and then a length of PVC pipe (about 21" in your
                                  case) that sticks straight up and ends just below the waterline. Below
                                  the tank you run PVC piping down to your sump (a smaller tank below your
                                  main tank). The water overflows into the tube and down to the sump. The
                                  water will not go below the level of the top of the pipe. In your sump,
                                  you have your heater, (if freshwater)filters and carbon, or (if saltwater)
                                  your skimmer. You then use a pump to pump the water from the sump back to
                                  the tank.

                                  The advantages are that you remove all the ugly processing equipment from
                                  the display tank and put them into the sump. In addition, evaporation
                                  will lower the level in the sump, not the display tank.

                                  Bulkheads cost $2-$5. Try http://www.bigalsonline.com for good prices.



                                  If you want to seal up the hole in your glass tank, just get a piece of
                                  glass about 6"x6" (1/2" or 3/8" thick) and glue it to the bottom of the
                                  tank (inside the tank) with aquarium sealant (silicone). Wait about 24
                                  hours for it to cure before adding water.




                                  TC@};- said:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Hi I'm TC,, Hubby was given a 75 gal tank that was used for a
                                  > lizard. it has a quarter size hole in the bottom.... can we patch
                                  > something like that to hold, for a fish tank use,,, or would it just
                                  > be better to get a whole new bottom glass? Any tips would help alot,
                                  > Thanks TC
                                  >
                                  > Fix the tank then go to setting up,, more questions to follow, lol
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                  > .
                                  > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                  > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                  > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                  > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8944 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Re: Hi all
                                  welcome, Steve!

                                  What else do you have in your crayfish tank?
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8945 From: Eric Miner Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
                                  Here's another question….I wish I could take you all out for dinner to
                                  pay you back for all your help.

                                  I'm sold on the Marienland Emperor Bio-Wheel filter system. The
                                  Bio-Wheel makes good sense (I could be swayed if there is good
                                  reason). I have two questions:

                                  I've read that the tank volume should be filtered four times an hour,
                                  is this true? If it is I'm thinking of getting tow filters that handle
                                  125gl/hr each, this gets me close to 4 times an hour for my 55 gal
                                  tank. I've read that if you have plants too much filtration can remove
                                  nutrients. The other alternative is to got below 4 times an hour or to
                                  move up to six times an hour….too much in my limited opinion.

                                  My second question has to do with aeration. These filter are the type
                                  that `splash' the water back into the tank. Is this good enough for
                                  sufficient aeration or should I also get an air pump and stone (too
                                  bad my old home brewing stone is made of metal)

                                  Thanks yet again for your help,

                                  Eric
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8946 From: TC@};- Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q/Ron
                                  Ron Hi! I've never come across this before,,, I understand what your
                                  talking about. But I've never seen it.. makes sense.. wish i'd of
                                  asked sooner. Thanks, TC

                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Hansen" <yahoo1@r...> wrote:
                                  > Oh, no, no, no. Don't plug that hole. You have "drilled" tank.
                                  Most of
                                  > us have to pay money to put those holes in.
                                  >
                                  > Having a drilled tank allows you to easily plumb it for a sump
                                  without
                                  > having to use an overflow box.
                                  >
                                  > Basically, you install a bulkhead (which allows PVC pipe to pass
                                  through a
                                  > glass wall without leaks) and then a length of PVC pipe (about 21"
                                  in your
                                  > case) that sticks straight up and ends just below the waterline.
                                  Below
                                  > the tank you run PVC piping down to your sump (a smaller tank
                                  below your
                                  > main tank). The water overflows into the tube and down to the
                                  sump. The
                                  > water will not go below the level of the top of the pipe. In your
                                  sump,
                                  > you have your heater, (if freshwater)filters and carbon, or (if
                                  saltwater)
                                  > your skimmer. You then use a pump to pump the water from the sump
                                  back to
                                  > the tank.
                                  >
                                  > The advantages are that you remove all the ugly processing
                                  equipment from
                                  > the display tank and put them into the sump. In addition,
                                  evaporation
                                  > will lower the level in the sump, not the display tank.
                                  >
                                  > Bulkheads cost $2-$5. Try http://www.bigalsonline.com for good
                                  prices.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > If you want to seal up the hole in your glass tank, just get a
                                  piece of
                                  > glass about 6"x6" (1/2" or 3/8" thick) and glue it to the bottom
                                  of the
                                  > tank (inside the tank) with aquarium sealant (silicone). Wait
                                  about 24
                                  > hours for it to cure before adding water.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8947 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Re: Hi all
                                  I have 4 cherry barbs and 2 sepia tetras. The mom and the 3 babies I kept
                                  don't bother them at all.

                                  No heater in the tank, though the water out of the tap is seldom below 74,
                                  so the light alone keeps it warm enough for them. I let the crays out every
                                  now and then and then rinse them off before they go back in their tank.

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "joequality1980" <crazy.joe.walcek@...>
                                  To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 1:58 PM
                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hi all


                                  >
                                  >
                                  > welcome, Steve!
                                  >
                                  > What else do you have in your crayfish tank?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                  > .
                                  > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                  the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                  subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                  in Advance for your help in this matter
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8948 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Plants
                                  Hi all. Sorry if you get multiples of this as I'm in several fishy groups
                                  and am now (pun intended) fishing for more ideas. I'm in the process of
                                  replanting my 60 gallon hex. I'm upgrading my lighting to 24inch
                                  powercompacts. Before I place my order with my LFS for the anubias plants
                                  and a thai onion, was looking for additional plants that would do well with
                                  two foot-long plus common plecos (as in not to become a nice salad like my
                                  last attempt did).

                                  Substrate is 45 pounds volcanit + 15 pounds brown wonderrock mixed. Not
                                  going to do anything like pressurized CO2. Maybe consider doing the jungle
                                  CO2 thing or I've heard of some people mentioning CO2 tablets, but didn't
                                  catch the brand, but I think I should be fine for now with the new lighting
                                  and the iron rich substrate.

                                  Thanks in advance for your plant suggestions. :) Now to go into hiding
                                  before the plecs find out what I'm up to. lol

                                  -Steve
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8949 From: Jenny & Wayne Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Thanks for the invitation
                                  Our names are Jenny & Wayne

                                  We have been raising fresh water tropical fish for six years now. We
                                  have (2)10gal, (1) 20gal planted, (1) 33gal, and are in the process
                                  of setting up a 130 gallon tank.

                                  Our fish range from Danios, Platies, Tetras, Barbs, Angels, Pleco's
                                  and Cory's.

                                  Thanks again for the invite......
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8950 From: paintspatter@comcast.net Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: New Member Intro
                                  Hi... I just joined the list today. It has been several years since we've done aquariums, so I thought it would be nice to have a resource like this to help us along. :) So far I have a 1 week old 2 gallon tank set up with a pair of male guppies in it. I will be setting up a 55 gallon freshwater tank over the course of the next few months. Our plan is to plant it and add tetras, maybe an angel or two, or a betta or a pair of gouramis. All advice is appreciated, as I'm sure I've forgotten what little I knew before. :) My goal is a densely planted aquarium with lots of movement. :)

                                  Any suggestions for substrate, pros & cons about adding CO2, plant recommendations, fish compatibility, lighting, filtration, etc are welcome. :)
                                  --
                                  Blessings,
                                  Toni
                                  Rakestraw Galleries
                                  http://spinnersflock.com
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8951 From: Steve Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Re: New Member
                                  Melissa,

                                  Here is a link to Google for a search on palludarium, which is pretty much
                                  what I think you are really trying to do:
                                  <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=palludarium&btnG=Google+Search>

                                  I did one once, a long, long time ago (in a place far, far away <g>), And I
                                  am interested in doing another one in the future, knowing a bit more about
                                  them now. When I did it, no one else was doing it really--or not so many
                                  that you'd notice. Today, you can even by inserts for many different sized
                                  tanks, or even get a tank already to go. When I did it, silicone was not
                                  heard of, and I had to discover a number of different ways to segregate the
                                  water from the land. The big problem, I think, that you are going to run
                                  into is using goldfish as the fish in the setup. Goldfish really require a
                                  lot of water, abut 30 gallons per adult, depending a bit on the type, and
                                  they are somewhat messy fish. To try to do this in anything less than the
                                  space of a 100-125 gallon tank would be a waste of possibly good fish.

                                  I really cannot comment on the toads, as I am completely unfamiliar with
                                  them.

                                  \\Steve//

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: peiperco [mailto:peiperco@...]
                                  Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 3:29 PM
                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] New Member




                                  Hello,

                                  I'm so glad I found this list. My name is Melissa. I live in the KC,
                                  MO Metro area.

                                  We have 2 Shar-Pei dogs and a number of gold fish and pond snails in
                                  our backyard pond. We even get Toads that come to mate and lay their
                                  eggs in our pond!

                                  My family used to keep fresh water fish and Dwarf Frogs in an
                                  aquarium a few years ago, but they have all died since :(

                                  The reason I am joining now, is I would like to set up a Viquarium to
                                  keep a couple of Fire-Bellied Toads along with some gold fish, that
                                  are bigger than the toads of course, in. I have been doing some
                                  research, still have alot more to do, so I thought I would join a
                                  couple of groups. I'll take a look in the archives and check out the
                                  files and links.

                                  I am wondering if anyone else has a Viquarium that they are keeping
                                  amphibians and fish in together? And what their experience has been?
                                  I am planning on building my own Viquarium from scratch and will
                                  include a rock waterfall and living plants.

                                  Thanks,
                                  Melissa
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8952 From: dawana325 Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: African Dwarf Frogs - HELP (cross-post)
                                  Fellow fish friends,

                                  I cannot figure out what I am doing wrong!! I have unfortunately
                                  killed about 8 different frogs. I am an experienced freshwater
                                  enthusiasts (about 3 years). I have a community tank (29 gal and
                                  semi-planted), a goldfish tank (2 moors and an apple snail - 29
                                  gal), and a betta in a 1 gallon. I keep a 10 gallon quarantine tank
                                  running and I have a sucessful 3 gal Eclipse at work on my desktop
                                  with 3 Endlers. However I might try, I cannot keep those darn
                                  froggies alive. The longest I've had them live is a couple of
                                  weeks; a couple of times they have died within days. I have tetras,
                                  snails (briggi and the salad bar common apple), amano shrimp, live
                                  bearers, all thriving. I even have 4 otos that are thriving, which
                                  I know is a toss up to get to live. I started with 4 and I am
                                  thrilled that all are still happy and alive! I feed my little fish
                                  friends live, frozen, freeze dried and regular staple foods. I
                                  spoil my fish friends like crazy. I check my water in all my tanks
                                  religiously (okay, weekly). I even keep a log. I change my water
                                  every week (sometimes 2). Most of my tanks are even over-filtered.
                                  I'm overly paranoid about acclimation - so I do that super slow.
                                  What am I doing wrong!!???

                                  I always put the froggies in established tanks. I always buy them 2
                                  at a time (once I had 3 at a time) so they will have company. I
                                  feed freeze dried blood worms and frog bits. I don't put them in
                                  tanks where they have to compete for food. I have a 5 1/2 gallon
                                  and another two gallon that are empty (right now), but established.

                                  Can somebody help!! I am afraid to try again. I really want these
                                  fun critters, but I'm afraid I'll kill more. Oh, and all the frogs
                                  came from at least 2 different stores.

                                  Thanks for your suggestions in advance!!
                                  -Dawana
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8953 From: Steve Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
                                  Eric,

                                  Four times an hour sounds about right. Filtration, in and of itself does not
                                  remove nutrients from the water. If you are worried about enough trace
                                  minerals and what not for your plants, forgo the activated carbon in your
                                  tank. I've only used it when needed for specific purposes, like removing
                                  medication from the water.

                                  Aeration is really to move the water, so more of it is exposed to the
                                  atmosphere and gaseous exchange can occur. Turning the water over 4 times
                                  per hour should actually do it for you, but if you feel the tank needs more,
                                  or you like the bubble effect, feel free.

                                  \\Steve//

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Eric Miner [mailto:eminer1254@...]
                                  Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 6:09 PM
                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Filtration - How many gallons/hour?




                                  Here's another question….I wish I could take you all out for dinner to
                                  pay you back for all your help.

                                  I'm sold on the Marienland Emperor Bio-Wheel filter system. The
                                  Bio-Wheel makes good sense (I could be swayed if there is good
                                  reason). I have two questions:

                                  I've read that the tank volume should be filtered four times an hour,
                                  is this true? If it is I'm thinking of getting tow filters that handle
                                  125gl/hr each, this gets me close to 4 times an hour for my 55 gal
                                  tank. I've read that if you have plants too much filtration can remove
                                  nutrients. The other alternative is to got below 4 times an hour or to
                                  move up to six times an hour….too much in my limited opinion.

                                  My second question has to do with aeration. These filter are the type
                                  that `splash' the water back into the tank. Is this good enough for
                                  sufficient aeration or should I also get an air pump and stone (too
                                  bad my old home brewing stone is made of metal)

                                  Thanks yet again for your help,

                                  Eric
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8954 From: Eric Miner Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Lighting - How many watts/gallon?
                                  Hello All,

                                  As I'm getting closer to starting up my first tank I have a load of
                                  questions. This one has to do with how much lighting I need.

                                  I've been reading up on everything including lighting. I'm planning a
                                  well planted tank. I want medium growth…not too much gardening. I've
                                  read that between 2-3 watts/gallon is what I should shoot for. I think
                                  I'll use two tubes one with full sunlight spectrum and one rated at
                                  10000K. Is this sufficient lighting in your experience?

                                  Thanks,

                                  Eric
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8955 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q/Ron
                                  Take a look on Reef Central for examples http://reefcentral.com

                                  They are saltwater, but most of the sump information applies to freshwater
                                  as well (do a search for "sump").



                                  TC@};- said:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Ron Hi! I've never come across this before,,, I understand what your
                                  > talking about. But I've never seen it.. makes sense.. wish i'd of
                                  > asked sooner. Thanks, TC
                                  >
                                  > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Hansen" <yahoo1@r...> wrote:
                                  >> Oh, no, no, no. Don't plug that hole. You have "drilled" tank.
                                  > Most of
                                  >> us have to pay money to put those holes in.
                                  >>
                                  >> Having a drilled tank allows you to easily plumb it for a sump
                                  > without
                                  >> having to use an overflow box.
                                  >>
                                  >> Basically, you install a bulkhead (which allows PVC pipe to pass
                                  > through a
                                  >> glass wall without leaks) and then a length of PVC pipe (about 21"
                                  > in your
                                  >> case) that sticks straight up and ends just below the waterline.
                                  > Below
                                  >> the tank you run PVC piping down to your sump (a smaller tank
                                  > below your
                                  >> main tank). The water overflows into the tube and down to the
                                  > sump. The
                                  >> water will not go below the level of the top of the pipe. In your
                                  > sump,
                                  >> you have your heater, (if freshwater)filters and carbon, or (if
                                  > saltwater)
                                  >> your skimmer. You then use a pump to pump the water from the sump
                                  > back to
                                  >> the tank.
                                  >>
                                  >> The advantages are that you remove all the ugly processing
                                  > equipment from
                                  >> the display tank and put them into the sump. In addition,
                                  > evaporation
                                  >> will lower the level in the sump, not the display tank.
                                  >>
                                  >> Bulkheads cost $2-$5. Try http://www.bigalsonline.com for good
                                  > prices.
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> If you want to seal up the hole in your glass tank, just get a
                                  > piece of
                                  >> glass about 6"x6" (1/2" or 3/8" thick) and glue it to the bottom
                                  > of the
                                  >> tank (inside the tank) with aquarium sealant (silicone). Wait
                                  > about 24
                                  >> hours for it to cure before adding water.
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                  > .
                                  > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                  > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                  > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                  > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8956 From: TC@};- Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q/Jeff
                                  Thanks Jeff, nice to know all is not lost and that my idea is
                                  workable and i can talk my 6 yr old out of wanting a lizzard or
                                  hamster. I'd rather fish,, lol Thanks a bunch< TC
                                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Jones" <jeffjonestx@y...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi TC,
                                  > I was given a tank that sounds similiar to yours. I was able to
                                  patch
                                  > mine and so far so good. I used a square piece of glass and a fair
                                  > amount of aquarium sealant and let it cure for several days. I
                                  then
                                  > tested it on the outside porch by placing the tank on a couple of
                                  2 x
                                  > 4's and filling it with a water. I let it sit that way for a
                                  couple
                                  > of days before setting it up inside, that was over 2 years
                                  > ago.......wouldn't have done this if it would have been on a 2nd
                                  > floor though.
                                  >
                                  > Jeff
                                  >
                                  > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "TC@};-" <tc_doucet2001@y...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Hi I'm TC,, Hubby was given a 75 gal tank that was used for a
                                  > > lizard. it has a quarter size hole in the bottom.... can we
                                  patch
                                  > > something like that to hold, for a fish tank use,,, or would it
                                  > just
                                  > > be better to get a whole new bottom glass? Any tips would help
                                  > alot,
                                  > > Thanks TC
                                  > >
                                  > > Fix the tank then go to setting up,, more questions to follow,
                                  lol
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8957 From: wayne carter Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Re: Tank for sale in Maryland
                                  would you meet me half way if i'm interrested? i live in central pa.

                                  kilmca <kilmca@...> wrote:


                                  72 gallon bow front reef ready tank, pine stand, and pine hood for
                                  sale.  Located between Baltimore and D.C..  Asking $400.00, obo.   








                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                  .
                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 8958 From: m senter Date: 3/8/2005
                                  Subject: Re: Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
                                  Attachments :
                                    i lost my female sword while she was having babies. but my luck was good because wal-mart has 90 guarantee on all fish. and i have only had her about 2 weeks and was pregnant when i got her.  I will be getting another on on Friday.  I alway wait until the day after wal-mart get fish in then if they are having problem most of the time they are showing up by then. 
                                     
                                    I am up to about 40 babies so far.... I think i will be selling to wal-mart at the rate i am having babies....LOL
                                     
                                    melissa senter
                                     
                                    -------Original Message-------
                                     
                                    Date: 03/08/05 01:23:26
                                    Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
                                     
                                    your live bearer can have 3-4 clutches with one mating
                                    --- m senter <msenter@indy.rr.com> wrote:

                                    >  I have a female sword tail and the other fish are
                                    > eating or tearing her
                                    > tail fin off. She is  pregnant and she is not the
                                    > smallest or the newest
                                    > fish in the tank. Why are they doing this and how do
                                    > i put a stop to it.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > How long can a fish be pregnant?  Can they be
                                    > pregnant with 2 different set
                                    > of fish at once. I know this sounds funny but one of
                                    > my mollies just had
                                    > babies and now she is fat again and looks as big or
                                    > bigger then the first
                                    > time she had babies about a week and a half ago.
                                    >
                                    > How do you tell when they are about to have babies
                                    > the breeder tank says to
                                    > put the fish in a couple days before they are do.
                                    >
                                    > How do i know when she is done having them?
                                    >
                                    > Melissa


                                         
                                               
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                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                    ..
                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                     
                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 8959 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
                                    by waiting only one day you are shocking the fish by
                                    moving them to new environments daily.by that means
                                    they are in at least 4 environments with different
                                    chemistry in 4 days.
                                    1. wholesaler
                                    2. shipping bags
                                    3. walmart
                                    4. your tank
                                    prior to wholesalers:
                                    1. breeder
                                    2. shipping bag
                                    if wild caught:
                                    1. original home
                                    2. shipping bag
                                    3. import depot
                                    4. wholesaler
                                    5. holding tank
                                    6. shipping bag
                                    7. dealer.
                                    8. to you


                                    --- m senter <msenter@...> wrote:
                                    > i lost my female sword while she was having babies.
                                    > but my luck was good
                                    > because wal-mart has 90 guarantee on all fish. and i
                                    > have only had her about
                                    > 2 weeks and was pregnant when i got her. I will be
                                    > getting another on on
                                    > Friday. I alway wait until the day after wal-mart
                                    > get fish in then if they
                                    > are having problem most of the time they are showing
                                    > up by then.
                                    >
                                    > I am up to about 40 babies so far.... I think i will
                                    > be selling to wal-mart
                                    > at the rate i am having babies....LOL
                                    >
                                    > melissa senter
                                    >
                                    > -------Original Message-------
                                    >
                                    > From: paul helms
                                    > Date: 03/08/05 01:23:26
                                    > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Questions about mollys
                                    > and pladdys and swords?
                                    >
                                    > your live bearer can have 3-4 clutches with one
                                    > mating
                                    > --- m senter <msenter@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > I have a female sword tail and the other fish are
                                    > > eating or tearing her
                                    > > tail fin off. She is pregnant and she is not the
                                    > > smallest or the newest
                                    > > fish in the tank. Why are they doing this and how
                                    > do
                                    > > i put a stop to it.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > How long can a fish be pregnant? Can they be
                                    > > pregnant with 2 different set
                                    > > of fish at once. I know this sounds funny but one
                                    > of
                                    > > my mollies just had
                                    > > babies and now she is fat again and looks as big
                                    > or
                                    > > bigger then the first
                                    > > time she had babies about a week and a half ago.
                                    > >
                                    > > How do you tell when they are about to have babies
                                    > > the breeder tank says to
                                    > > put the fish in a couple days before they are do.
                                    > >
                                    > > How do i know when she is done having them?
                                    > >
                                    > > Melissa
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > __________________________________
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                                    > ..
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                                    > that is not important to
                                    > the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                    > message modify the
                                    > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                    > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                    > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 8960 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Plants
                                    12 inch plecos should really not be in a 60 hex, no
                                    where big enough for them to be happy. a 60 ong would
                                    be better. especially with 2. anything you put in
                                    will get thrashed simple because they have no rrom to
                                    move. they really do not like to sit in one spotted
                                    24/7. usually very active at night
                                    --- The Dragon Hunter
                                    <dragon.hunter@...> wrote:
                                    > Hi all. Sorry if you get multiples of this as I'm
                                    > in several fishy groups
                                    > and am now (pun intended) fishing for more ideas.
                                    > I'm in the process of
                                    > replanting my 60 gallon hex. I'm upgrading my
                                    > lighting to 24inch
                                    > powercompacts. Before I place my order with my LFS
                                    > for the anubias plants
                                    > and a thai onion, was looking for additional plants
                                    > that would do well with
                                    > two foot-long plus common plecos (as in not to
                                    > become a nice salad like my
                                    > last attempt did).
                                    >
                                    > Substrate is 45 pounds volcanit + 15 pounds brown
                                    > wonderrock mixed. Not
                                    > going to do anything like pressurized CO2. Maybe
                                    > consider doing the jungle
                                    > CO2 thing or I've heard of some people mentioning
                                    > CO2 tablets, but didn't
                                    > catch the brand, but I think I should be fine for
                                    > now with the new lighting
                                    > and the iron rich substrate.
                                    >
                                    > Thanks in advance for your plant suggestions. :)
                                    > Now to go into hiding
                                    > before the plecs find out what I'm up to. lol
                                    >
                                    > -Steve
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >




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                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 8961 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
                                    four times is ok.....6 is much better. i shoot for 10
                                    times. the more poplulated your tank is, the more
                                    filtration it requires. if you are sticking to a
                                    small population, 4 ties is fine. the number of
                                    times/ hour is irrelevant to plants unless the current
                                    is blowing directly on them.
                                    --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Here's another question�.I wish I could take you all
                                    > out for dinner to
                                    > pay you back for all your help.
                                    >
                                    > I'm sold on the Marienland Emperor Bio-Wheel filter
                                    > system. The
                                    > Bio-Wheel makes good sense (I could be swayed if
                                    > there is good
                                    > reason). I have two questions:
                                    >
                                    > I've read that the tank volume should be filtered
                                    > four times an hour,
                                    > is this true? If it is I'm thinking of getting tow
                                    > filters that handle
                                    > 125gl/hr each, this gets me close to 4 times an hour
                                    > for my 55 gal
                                    > tank. I've read that if you have plants too much
                                    > filtration can remove
                                    > nutrients. The other alternative is to got below 4
                                    > times an hour or to
                                    > move up to six times an hour�.too much in my limited
                                    > opinion.
                                    >
                                    > My second question has to do with aeration. These
                                    > filter are the type
                                    > that `splash' the water back into the tank. Is this
                                    > good enough for
                                    > sufficient aeration or should I also get an air pump
                                    > and stone (too
                                    > bad my old home brewing stone is made of metal)
                                    >
                                    > Thanks yet again for your help,
                                    >
                                    > Eric
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >




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                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 8962 From: anil abraham Date: 3/8/2005
                                    Subject: Help African Peacock
                                    Hi all,

                                    need help with my new fishes have 1 male and 2
                                    females. the male is very agressive with the females i
                                    have a tank 100cms/47cms/54cms with plenty of rocks
                                    and some java fern these were recently introduced and
                                    there are no other fishes in the tank all the previous
                                    inhabitants were shifted. i fear that the male and
                                    females are different colour forms of the peacock
                                    family as the dealers was very confused at telling the
                                    females apart. has anyone had a similar situation???

                                    Regards
                                    Abraham




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                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 8963 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
                                    Subject: Re: African Dwarf Frogs - HELP (cross-post)
                                    number one, make sure the frogs get access to air.
                                    they must be able to stic their heads out of the water
                                    to beathe. number two, do not over feed. number
                                    three, you do not have to acclimate frogs to anythiing
                                    but temp. float for 15 minute sthen net them out to
                                    the tank.
                                    --- dawana325 <dawanalea@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Fellow fish friends,
                                    >
                                    > I cannot figure out what I am doing wrong!! I have
                                    > unfortunately
                                    > killed about 8 different frogs. I am an experienced
                                    > freshwater
                                    > enthusiasts (about 3 years). I have a community
                                    > tank (29 gal and
                                    > semi-planted), a goldfish tank (2 moors and an apple
                                    > snail - 29
                                    > gal), and a betta in a 1 gallon. I keep a 10 gallon
                                    > quarantine tank
                                    > running and I have a sucessful 3 gal Eclipse at work
                                    > on my desktop
                                    > with 3 Endlers. However I might try, I cannot keep
                                    > those darn
                                    > froggies alive. The longest I've had them live is a
                                    > couple of
                                    > weeks; a couple of times they have died within days.
                                    > I have tetras,
                                    > snails (briggi and the salad bar common apple),
                                    > amano shrimp, live
                                    > bearers, all thriving. I even have 4 otos that are
                                    > thriving, which
                                    > I know is a toss up to get to live. I started with
                                    > 4 and I am
                                    > thrilled that all are still happy and alive! I feed
                                    > my little fish
                                    > friends live, frozen, freeze dried and regular
                                    > staple foods. I
                                    > spoil my fish friends like crazy. I check my water
                                    > in all my tanks
                                    > religiously (okay, weekly). I even keep a log. I
                                    > change my water
                                    > every week (sometimes 2). Most of my tanks are even
                                    > over-filtered.
                                    > I'm overly paranoid about acclimation - so I do that
                                    > super slow.
                                    > What am I doing wrong!!???
                                    >
                                    > I always put the froggies in established tanks. I
                                    > always buy them 2
                                    > at a time (once I had 3 at a time) so they will have
                                    > company. I
                                    > feed freeze dried blood worms and frog bits. I
                                    > don't put them in
                                    > tanks where they have to compete for food. I have a
                                    > 5 1/2 gallon
                                    > and another two gallon that are empty (right now),
                                    > but established.
                                    >
                                    > Can somebody help!! I am afraid to try again. I
                                    > really want these
                                    > fun critters, but I'm afraid I'll kill more. Oh,
                                    > and all the frogs
                                    > came from at least 2 different stores.
                                    >
                                    > Thanks for your suggestions in advance!!
                                    > -Dawana
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >




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                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 8964 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
                                    Subject: Re: New Member Intro
                                    ADVICE NUMBER 1! do not put fish in the tank so early.
                                    --- paintspatter@... wrote:
                                    > Hi... I just joined the list today. It has been
                                    > several years since we've done aquariums, so I
                                    > thought it would be nice to have a resource like
                                    > this to help us along. :) So far I have a 1 week old
                                    > 2 gallon tank set up with a pair of male guppies in
                                    > it. I will be setting up a 55 gallon freshwater tank
                                    > over the course of the next few months. Our plan is
                                    > to plant it and add tetras, maybe an angel or two,
                                    > or a betta or a pair of gouramis. All advice is
                                    > appreciated, as I'm sure I've forgotten what little
                                    > I knew before. :) My goal is a densely planted
                                    > aquarium with lots of movement. :)
                                    >
                                    > Any suggestions for substrate, pros & cons about
                                    > adding CO2, plant recommendations, fish
                                    > compatibility, lighting, filtration, etc are
                                    > welcome. :)
                                    > --
                                    > Blessings,
                                    > Toni
                                    > Rakestraw Galleries
                                    > http://spinnersflock.com
                                    >




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                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 8965 From: m senter Date: 3/8/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
                                    Attachments :
                                      i know but i want to see about ick and sometimes other problems. i have caught several stores that are trying to pass off sick fish. I know that lady at wal-mart knows me well enough now to know that i don't take crappy fish, she won't even sell them if she thinks something is wrong.
                                       
                                      I went to another store and was looking at they  were selling fish that had ick, and when i said something the guy looked at me like i was dumb.  Needless to say it did not take me long to get out of the store.
                                       
                                      We have a store call sarafi adventures in pets and the employees are so rude and the tanks look nasty, I won't go near there again.
                                       
                                      We have a store here in Indianapolis called Uncle Bill's everytime we went in there and got fish i could almost tell you they would be dead within the week. They only give you half credit for them too so i won't go back there either that is why i like Wal-mart fish beside they are cheaper then most of the other stores.
                                       
                                      melissa 
                                       
                                      -------Original Message-------
                                       
                                      Date: 03/09/05 01:07:22
                                      Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Questions about mollys and pladdys and swords?
                                       
                                      by waiting only one day you are shocking the fish by
                                      moving them to new environments daily.by that means
                                      they are in at least 4 environments with different
                                      chemistry in 4 days.
                                      1. wholesaler
                                      2. shipping bags
                                      3. walmart
                                      4. your tank
                                      prior to wholesalers:
                                      1.  breeder
                                      2.  shipping bag
                                      if wild caught:
                                      1. original home
                                      2. shipping bag
                                      3. import depot
                                      4. wholesaler
                                      5. holding tank
                                      6.  shipping bag
                                      7.  dealer.
                                      8.  to you


                                      --- m senter <msenter@indy.rr.com> wrote:
                                      > i lost my female sword while she was having babies.
                                      > but my luck was good
                                      > because wal-mart has 90 guarantee on all fish. and i
                                      > have only had her about
                                      > 2 weeks and was pregnant when i got her.  I will be
                                      > getting another on on
                                      > Friday.  I alway wait until the day after wal-mart
                                      > get fish in then if they
                                      > are having problem most of the time they are showing
                                      > up by then.
                                      >
                                      > I am up to about 40 babies so far.... I think i will
                                      > be selling to wal-mart
                                      > at the rate i am having babies....LOL
                                      >
                                      > melissa senter

                                      > -------Original Message-------

                                      > From: paul helms
                                      > Date: 03/08/05 01:23:26
                                      > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Questions about mollys
                                      > and pladdys and swords?

                                      > your live bearer can have 3-4 clutches with one
                                      > mating
                                      > --- m senter <msenter@indy.rr.com> wrote:
                                      > > 
                                      > >  I have a female sword tail and the other fish are
                                      > > eating or tearing her
                                      > > tail fin off. She is  pregnant and she is not the
                                      > > smallest or the newest
                                      > > fish in the tank. Why are they doing this and how
                                      > do
                                      > > i put a stop to it.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > How long can a fish be pregnant?  Can they be
                                      > > pregnant with 2 different set
                                      > > of fish at once. I know this sounds funny but one
                                      > of
                                      > > my mollies just had
                                      > > babies and now she is fat again and looks as big
                                      > or
                                      > > bigger then the first
                                      > > time she had babies about a week and a half ago.
                                      > >
                                      > > How do you tell when they are about to have babies
                                      > > the breeder tank says to
                                      > > put the fish in a couple days before they are do.
                                      > >
                                      > > How do i know when she is done having them?
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                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 8966 From: m senter Date: 3/8/2005
                                      Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
                                      Attachments :
                                        paul,
                                         
                                        I have 55 gal. tank and have 30-60 filter and about 30 -35 small mollies, pladdies, and swords and one big fancy tail goldfish and a big pleco in it. yes i know goldfish and mollies don't normally go together but the lady we got the tank from had him with them and he was fine so we have added to them and is doing fine.  but what i would like to know is if the filter is big enough for the tank, and i do not have air being pumped into it do i need another filter on it.
                                         
                                        melissa   
                                         
                                        -------Original Message-------
                                         
                                        Date: 03/09/05 01:12:15
                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
                                         
                                        four times is ok.....6 is much better.  i shoot for 10
                                        times.  the more poplulated your tank is, the more
                                        filtration it requires.  if you are sticking to a
                                        small population, 4 ties is fine.  the number of
                                        times/ hour is irrelevant to plants unless the current
                                        is blowing directly on them.
                                        --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@yahoo.com> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Here's another question….I wish I could take you all
                                        > out for dinner to
                                        > pay you back for all your help.
                                        >
                                        > I'm sold on the Marienland Emperor Bio-Wheel filter
                                        > system. The
                                        > Bio-Wheel makes good sense (I could be swayed if
                                        > there is good
                                        > reason). I have two questions:
                                        >
                                        > I've read that the tank volume should be filtered
                                        > four times an hour,
                                        > is this true? If it is I'm thinking of getting tow
                                        > filters that handle
                                        > 125gl/hr each, this gets me close to 4 times an hour
                                        > for my 55 gal
                                        > tank. I've read that if you have plants too much
                                        > filtration can remove
                                        > nutrients. The other alternative is to got below 4
                                        > times an hour or to
                                        > move up to six times an hour….too much in my limited
                                        > opinion.
                                        >
                                        > My second question has to do with aeration. These
                                        > filter are the type
                                        > that `splash' the water back into the tank. Is this
                                        > good enough for
                                        > sufficient aeration or should I also get an air pump
                                        > and stone (too
                                        > bad my old home brewing stone is made of metal)
                                        >
                                        > Thanks yet again for your help,
                                        >
                                        > Eric
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                         
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                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8967 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
                                        Subject: Re: HI I need some help again,
                                        first thing is first.
                                        the rio 3100 is waaaaaay to big for a 55 gallon tank.
                                        i use one to return from my refugium to my 180 gallon
                                        tank at a 5 foot head.

                                        next, all that you have is pumps to move water, no
                                        filtration at all. the First thing you should buy is a
                                        protein skimmer.

                                        One maxi jet at each end would be fine. a cannister
                                        or back filter would be great additions.

                                        Gravel is not used in salt water. make sure you have
                                        sand or crushed coral, or a mix of the two.

                                        The specific gravity of sea water is between 1.021 and
                                        1.026 depending upon where in the world you are.
                                        generally 1.023 is optimal. 1 bag of salt makes 50
                                        gallon of water. a 55 gallon tank only hold 48 gallon
                                        of water. when you add sand and live rock to this,
                                        you will hold more like 38 gallons. make sure your
                                        salt water is mixed before it hits live rock or live
                                        sand.

                                        your lighting scheme needs to be set up to go with
                                        whatever type of life you are adding.
                                        1. corals require between 2.5 and 5 watts per gallon
                                        2. anemone's require at least 3 watts per gallon
                                        3. mushroom/pollyps need at least 2 watts per gallon
                                        4. fish do not have a set requirement.
                                        5. live rock needs at least 2 w/g to maintain its
                                        coraline algae structures.

                                        if your tank is not pre drilled to use a sump in the
                                        stand, it is not designed for salt water, but can be
                                        used. if this is the case, i would add a cannister or
                                        back filter for sure.

                                        paul
                                        --- Charlene <muffin4494@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > HI I need some help again. I am standing my frist
                                        > saltwater tank. I
                                        > need to know a couple of things.
                                        >
                                        > 1. I have 3 maxi-jet 1200. Where would I put them in
                                        > the tank and how
                                        > much water mooement ( fow in tank ) should I have?
                                        > Sould I put them
                                        > togother for a 55 gal tank? Or Do I have to buy
                                        > something eles for
                                        > the water mooement?
                                        >
                                        > 2. I also have 1 Rio 3100 pump and 1 Rio 800 pump.
                                        > How did I hook
                                        > them up to the tank and where in my tank, sould I
                                        > put them? Or do I
                                        > have to got something for them?
                                        >
                                        > 3. And I all so have 2 hydrometer. 1 is a gravity
                                        > meter And the
                                        > other 1 is a big one ( the same thing on it) Can any
                                        > one tell mehow
                                        > much salt should the meter read? And how much salt
                                        > should I put in my
                                        > tank for a 55 ga tank.
                                        >
                                        > Thank you all for helping me with this.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Charlene muffin4494@...
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >




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                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8968 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
                                        Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
                                        in my persoanl and professional opinion you should
                                        shoot for 2x the filtration taht is recommended on the
                                        box, so i would say no. the oxygen added by the back
                                        filter is suffiecient to not need air stones, but just
                                        so you know, the goldfish will eat plants. if they
                                        are staying, plants may not be doable. i would use an
                                        under gravel filter with 2 powerheads in at least part
                                        of the tank if i were you. many people belive that
                                        the biowheel is a replacement, but when you do the
                                        surface area calculations for bacterial growth you
                                        will find that the biowheel has about 1/3 of what the
                                        ugf uses. the ugf uses the lxw of your tank for its
                                        base area, and when water is pulled throughthe gravel
                                        it also uses the surface area of all unhindered
                                        gravel. i am not saying that they are bad, in fact
                                        they are a great addition that really makes the tank
                                        more stable. if you desire plants, you can use the
                                        ugf in part of the tank. for instance use it in the
                                        middle, plant out the center and do rock work in teh
                                        middle.
                                        --- m senter <msenter@...> wrote:
                                        > paul,
                                        >
                                        > I have 55 gal. tank and have 30-60 filter and about
                                        > 30 -35 small mollies,
                                        > pladdies, and swords and one big fancy tail goldfish
                                        > and a big pleco in it.
                                        > yes i know goldfish and mollies don't normally go
                                        > together but the lady we
                                        > got the tank from had him with them and he was fine
                                        > so we have added to them
                                        > and is doing fine. but what i would like to know is
                                        > if the filter is big
                                        > enough for the tank, and i do not have air being
                                        > pumped into it do i need
                                        > another filter on it.
                                        >
                                        > melissa
                                        >
                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                        >
                                        > From: paul helms
                                        > Date: 03/09/05 01:12:15
                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filtration - How many
                                        > gallons/hour?
                                        >
                                        > four times is ok.....6 is much better. i shoot for
                                        > 10
                                        > times. the more poplulated your tank is, the more
                                        > filtration it requires. if you are sticking to a
                                        > small population, 4 ties is fine. the number of
                                        > times/ hour is irrelevant to plants unless the
                                        > current
                                        > is blowing directly on them.
                                        > --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Here's another question�.I wish I could take you
                                        > all
                                        > > out for dinner to
                                        > > pay you back for all your help.
                                        > >
                                        > > I'm sold on the Marienland Emperor Bio-Wheel
                                        > filter
                                        > > system. The
                                        > > Bio-Wheel makes good sense (I could be swayed if
                                        > > there is good
                                        > > reason). I have two questions:
                                        > >
                                        > > I've read that the tank volume should be filtered
                                        > > four times an hour,
                                        > > is this true? If it is I'm thinking of getting tow
                                        > > filters that handle
                                        > > 125gl/hr each, this gets me close to 4 times an
                                        > hour
                                        > > for my 55 gal
                                        > > tank. I've read that if you have plants too much
                                        > > filtration can remove
                                        > > nutrients. The other alternative is to got below 4
                                        > > times an hour or to
                                        > > move up to six times an hour�.too much in my
                                        > limited
                                        > > opinion.
                                        > >
                                        > > My second question has to do with aeration. These
                                        > > filter are the type
                                        > > that `splash' the water back into the tank. Is
                                        > this
                                        > > good enough for
                                        > > sufficient aeration or should I also get an air
                                        > pump
                                        > > and stone (too
                                        > > bad my old home brewing stone is made of metal)
                                        > >
                                        > > Thanks yet again for your help,
                                        > >
                                        > > Eric
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > __________________________________
                                        > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                                        > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
                                        > http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                        > ..
                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                        > that is not important to
                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                        > message modify the
                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                        > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 8969 From: m senter Date: 3/8/2005
                                        Subject: Re: south american dragon fish?
                                        Attachments :

                                          hi my neighbor has a south american dragon fish, they are having real trouble with the tank setup and have lost all the fish (pladdies) does the blood worms make the setup different or something? I have done everything i know and can you tell me where to find him info on this fish. 
                                           
                                          melissa 
                                           
                                          -------Original Message-------
                                           
                                          Date: 03/09/05 01:22:21
                                          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Member Intro
                                           
                                          ADVICE NUMBER 1! do not put fish in the tank so early.
                                          --- paintspatter@comcast.net wrote:
                                          > Hi... I just joined the list today. It has been
                                          > several years since we've done aquariums, so I
                                          > thought it would be nice to have a resource like
                                          > this to help us along. :) So far I have a 1 week old
                                          > 2 gallon tank set up with a pair of male guppies in
                                          > it. I will be setting up a 55 gallon freshwater tank
                                          > over the course of the next few months. Our plan is
                                          > to plant it and add tetras, maybe an angel or two,
                                          > or a betta or a pair of gouramis. All advice is
                                          > appreciated, as I'm sure I've forgotten what little
                                          > I knew before. :) My goal is a densely planted
                                          > aquarium with lots of movement. :)
                                          >
                                          > Any suggestions for substrate, pros & cons about
                                          > adding CO2, plant recommendations, fish
                                          > compatibility, lighting, filtration, etc are
                                          > welcome. :)
                                          > --
                                          > Blessings,
                                          > Toni
                                          > Rakestraw Galleries
                                          > http://spinnersflock.com
                                          >


                                               
                                                     
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                                          ..
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                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8970 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
                                          Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
                                          the drilled tanks use a float system, not just pvc
                                          pipe sticking up. the entire kit runs 30-40 dollars
                                          with the bulk head pipes hose , etc.
                                          --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                          > Oh, no, no, no. Don't plug that hole. You have
                                          > "drilled" tank. Most of
                                          > us have to pay money to put those holes in.
                                          >
                                          > Having a drilled tank allows you to easily plumb it
                                          > for a sump without
                                          > having to use an overflow box.
                                          >
                                          > Basically, you install a bulkhead (which allows PVC
                                          > pipe to pass through a
                                          > glass wall without leaks) and then a length of PVC
                                          > pipe (about 21" in your
                                          > case) that sticks straight up and ends just below
                                          > the waterline. Below
                                          > the tank you run PVC piping down to your sump (a
                                          > smaller tank below your
                                          > main tank). The water overflows into the tube and
                                          > down to the sump. The
                                          > water will not go below the level of the top of the
                                          > pipe. In your sump,
                                          > you have your heater, (if freshwater)filters and
                                          > carbon, or (if saltwater)
                                          > your skimmer. You then use a pump to pump the water
                                          > from the sump back to
                                          > the tank.
                                          >
                                          > The advantages are that you remove all the ugly
                                          > processing equipment from
                                          > the display tank and put them into the sump. In
                                          > addition, evaporation
                                          > will lower the level in the sump, not the display
                                          > tank.
                                          >
                                          > Bulkheads cost $2-$5. Try
                                          > http://www.bigalsonline.com for good prices.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > If you want to seal up the hole in your glass tank,
                                          > just get a piece of
                                          > glass about 6"x6" (1/2" or 3/8" thick) and glue it
                                          > to the bottom of the
                                          > tank (inside the tank) with aquarium sealant
                                          > (silicone). Wait about 24
                                          > hours for it to cure before adding water.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > TC@};- said:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Hi I'm TC,, Hubby was given a 75 gal tank that was
                                          > used for a
                                          > > lizard. it has a quarter size hole in the
                                          > bottom.... can we patch
                                          > > something like that to hold, for a fish tank
                                          > use,,, or would it just
                                          > > be better to get a whole new bottom glass? Any
                                          > tips would help alot,
                                          > > Thanks TC
                                          > >
                                          > > Fix the tank then go to setting up,, more
                                          > questions to follow, lol
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                          > when replying, thanks
                                          > > .
                                          > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                          > that is not important to
                                          > > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                          > original message modify the
                                          > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                          > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                          > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >




                                          __________________________________
                                          Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                                          Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
                                          http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8971 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
                                          Subject: Re: south american dragon fish?
                                          the dragon goby will eat anything taht fits in his
                                          mouth. live blood worms hurt nothing, they live in
                                          water. frozen or dried will rot if not eaten
                                          --- m senter <msenter@...> wrote:
                                          > hi my neighbor has a south american dragon fish,
                                          > they are having real
                                          > trouble with the tank setup and have lost all the
                                          > fish (pladdies) does the
                                          > blood worms make the setup different or something? I
                                          > have done everything i
                                          > know and can you tell me where to find him info on
                                          > this fish.
                                          >
                                          > melissa
                                          >
                                          > -------Original Message-------
                                          >
                                          > From: paul helms
                                          > Date: 03/09/05 01:22:21
                                          > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Member Intro
                                          >
                                          > ADVICE NUMBER 1! do not put fish in the tank so
                                          > early.
                                          > --- paintspatter@... wrote:
                                          > > Hi... I just joined the list today. It has been
                                          > > several years since we've done aquariums, so I
                                          > > thought it would be nice to have a resource like
                                          > > this to help us along. :) So far I have a 1 week
                                          > old
                                          > > 2 gallon tank set up with a pair of male guppies
                                          > in
                                          > > it. I will be setting up a 55 gallon freshwater
                                          > tank
                                          > > over the course of the next few months. Our plan
                                          > is
                                          > > to plant it and add tetras, maybe an angel or two,
                                          > > or a betta or a pair of gouramis. All advice is
                                          > > appreciated, as I'm sure I've forgotten what
                                          > little
                                          > > I knew before. :) My goal is a densely planted
                                          > > aquarium with lots of movement. :)
                                          > >
                                          > > Any suggestions for substrate, pros & cons about
                                          > > adding CO2, plant recommendations, fish
                                          > > compatibility, lighting, filtration, etc are
                                          > > welcome. :)
                                          > > --
                                          > > Blessings,
                                          > > Toni
                                          > > Rakestraw Galleries
                                          > > http://spinnersflock.com
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > __________________________________
                                          > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                                          > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
                                          > http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                          > replying, thanks
                                          > ..
                                          > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                          > that is not important to
                                          > the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                          > message modify the
                                          > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                          > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                          > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                          > ADVERTISEMENT
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                          >
                                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                          >
                                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                          > Terms of Service.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >




                                          __________________________________
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                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 8972 From: m senter Date: 3/8/2005
                                          Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
                                          Attachments :
                                            i don't have plants?  what is bio wheel?  we are using sphinen hose. to clean tank. we have a very clean tank i can't stand dirty tanks. so i clean about every 6 to 10 weeks at most because of my big goldfish and plecos.
                                             
                                            melissa 
                                             
                                            -------Original Message-------
                                             
                                            Date: 03/09/05 01:35:27
                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
                                             
                                            in my persoanl and professional opinion you should
                                            shoot for 2x the filtration taht is recommended on the
                                            box, so i would say no.  the oxygen added by the back
                                            filter is suffiecient to not need air stones, but just
                                            so you know, the goldfish will eat plants.  if they
                                            are staying, plants may not be doable.  i would use an
                                            under gravel filter with 2 powerheads in at least part
                                            of the tank if i were you.  many people belive that
                                            the biowheel is a replacement, but when you do the
                                            surface area calculations for bacterial growth you
                                            will find that the biowheel has about 1/3 of what the
                                            ugf uses.  the ugf uses the lxw of your tank for its
                                            base area, and when water is pulled throughthe gravel
                                            it also uses the surface area of all unhindered
                                            gravel.  i am not saying that they are bad, in fact
                                            they are a great addition that really makes the tank
                                            more stable.  if you desire plants, you can use the
                                            ugf in part of the tank.  for instance use it in the
                                            middle, plant out the center and do rock work in teh
                                            middle.
                                            --- m senter <msenter@indy.rr.com> wrote:
                                            > paul,
                                            >
                                            > I have 55 gal. tank and have 30-60 filter and about
                                            > 30 -35 small mollies,
                                            > pladdies, and swords and one big fancy tail goldfish
                                            > and a big pleco in it.
                                            > yes i know goldfish and mollies don't normally go
                                            > together but the lady we
                                            > got the tank from had him with them and he was fine
                                            > so we have added to them
                                            > and is doing fine.  but what i would like to know is
                                            > if the filter is big
                                            > enough for the tank, and i do not have air being
                                            > pumped into it do i need
                                            > another filter on it.
                                            >
                                            > melissa
                                            >
                                            > -------Original Message-------
                                            >
                                            > From: paul helms
                                            > Date: 03/09/05 01:12:15
                                            > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filtration - How many
                                            > gallons/hour?
                                            >
                                            > four times is ok.....6 is much better.  i shoot for
                                            > 10
                                            > times.  the more poplulated your tank is, the more
                                            > filtration it requires.  if you are sticking to a
                                            > small population, 4 ties is fine.  the number of
                                            > times/ hour is irrelevant to plants unless the
                                            > current
                                            > is blowing directly on them.
                                            > --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@yahoo.com> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Here's another question….I wish I could take you
                                            > all
                                            > > out for dinner to
                                            > > pay you back for all your help.
                                            > >
                                            > > I'm sold on the Marienland Emperor Bio-Wheel
                                            > filter
                                            > > system. The
                                            > > Bio-Wheel makes good sense (I could be swayed if
                                            > > there is good
                                            > > reason). I have two questions:
                                            > >
                                            > > I've read that the tank volume should be filtered
                                            > > four times an hour,
                                            > > is this true? If it is I'm thinking of getting tow
                                            > > filters that handle
                                            > > 125gl/hr each, this gets me close to 4 times an
                                            > hour
                                            > > for my 55 gal
                                            > > tank. I've read that if you have plants too much
                                            > > filtration can remove
                                            > > nutrients. The other alternative is to got below 4
                                            > > times an hour or to
                                            > > move up to six times an hour….too much in my
                                            > limited
                                            > > opinion.
                                            > >
                                            > > My second question has to do with aeration. These
                                            > > filter are the type
                                            > > that `splash' the water back into the tank. Is
                                            > this
                                            > > good enough for
                                            > > sufficient aeration or should I also get an air
                                            > pump
                                            > > and stone (too
                                            > > bad my old home brewing stone is made of metal)
                                            > >
                                            > > Thanks yet again for your help,
                                            > >
                                            > > Eric
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > __________________________________
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                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8973 From: paul helms Date: 3/8/2005
                                            Subject: Re: cories question...
                                            yup, they do it all the time...standard behavior.
                                            often times you will hear a thud when they ram their
                                            head into the glass brace or lid. this thud is the
                                            result of being one of the few fish with a bone skull
                                            instead of cartlidge.
                                            --- Amalthea <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                            > i've noticed over the past few months that
                                            > periodically my albino
                                            > cories, though only one at a time, will zip up to
                                            > the top of the tank,
                                            > break the surface (which makes a surprisingly loud
                                            > popping sound) and
                                            > then zip right back down to the bottom. none of them
                                            > are behaving oddly
                                            > otherwise, and it's not always the same one.
                                            > generally they just pack
                                            > together on the bottom like a bunch of little dogs.
                                            > has anyone ever
                                            > observed this "zipping" behavior before, and if so,
                                            > why are they doing
                                            > it?
                                            > amalthea
                                            > http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                            > Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much
                                            > More...
                                            >




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                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 8974 From: paul helms Date: 3/9/2005
                                            Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
                                            Attachments :
                                              don't confuse black bacteria or mulm in the gravel for
                                              "dirt". over cleaning can kill just as quick if not
                                              quicker than under cleaning
                                              --- m senter <msenter@...> wrote:

                                              > i don't have plants? what is bio wheel? we are
                                              > using sphinen hose. to
                                              > clean tank. we have a very clean tank i can't stand
                                              > dirty tanks. so i clean
                                              > about every 6 to 10 weeks at most because of my big
                                              > goldfish and plecos.
                                              >
                                              > melissa
                                              >
                                              > -------Original Message-------
                                              >
                                              > From: paul helms
                                              > Date: 03/09/05 01:35:27
                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filtration - How many
                                              > gallons/hour?
                                              >
                                              > in my persoanl and professional opinion you should
                                              > shoot for 2x the filtration taht is recommended on
                                              > the
                                              > box, so i would say no. the oxygen added by the
                                              > back
                                              > filter is suffiecient to not need air stones, but
                                              > just
                                              > so you know, the goldfish will eat plants. if they
                                              > are staying, plants may not be doable. i would use
                                              > an
                                              > under gravel filter with 2 powerheads in at least
                                              > part
                                              > of the tank if i were you. many people belive that
                                              > the biowheel is a replacement, but when you do the
                                              > surface area calculations for bacterial growth you
                                              > will find that the biowheel has about 1/3 of what
                                              > the
                                              > ugf uses. the ugf uses the lxw of your tank for its
                                              > base area, and when water is pulled throughthe
                                              > gravel
                                              > it also uses the surface area of all unhindered
                                              > gravel. i am not saying that they are bad, in fact
                                              > they are a great addition that really makes the tank
                                              > more stable. if you desire plants, you can use the
                                              > ugf in part of the tank. for instance use it in the
                                              > middle, plant out the center and do rock work in teh
                                              > middle.
                                              > --- m senter <msenter@...> wrote:
                                              > > paul,
                                              > >
                                              > > I have 55 gal. tank and have 30-60 filter and
                                              > about
                                              > > 30 -35 small mollies,
                                              > > pladdies, and swords and one big fancy tail
                                              > goldfish
                                              > > and a big pleco in it.
                                              > > yes i know goldfish and mollies don't normally go
                                              > > together but the lady we
                                              > > got the tank from had him with them and he was
                                              > fine
                                              > > so we have added to them
                                              > > and is doing fine. but what i would like to know
                                              > is
                                              > > if the filter is big
                                              > > enough for the tank, and i do not have air being
                                              > > pumped into it do i need
                                              > > another filter on it.
                                              > >
                                              > > melissa
                                              > >
                                              > > -------Original Message-------
                                              > >
                                              > > From: paul helms
                                              > > Date: 03/09/05 01:12:15
                                              > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filtration - How many
                                              > > gallons/hour?
                                              > >
                                              > > four times is ok.....6 is much better. i shoot
                                              > for
                                              > > 10
                                              > > times. the more poplulated your tank is, the more
                                              > > filtration it requires. if you are sticking to a
                                              > > small population, 4 ties is fine. the number of
                                              > > times/ hour is irrelevant to plants unless the
                                              > > current
                                              > > is blowing directly on them.
                                              > > --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Here's another question�.I wish I could take you
                                              > > all
                                              > > > out for dinner to
                                              > > > pay you back for all your help.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I'm sold on the Marienland Emperor Bio-Wheel
                                              > > filter
                                              > > > system. The
                                              > > > Bio-Wheel makes good sense (I could be swayed if
                                              > > > there is good
                                              > > > reason). I have two questions:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I've read that the tank volume should be
                                              > filtered
                                              > > > four times an hour,
                                              > > > is this true? If it is I'm thinking of getting
                                              > tow
                                              > > > filters that handle
                                              > > > 125gl/hr each, this gets me close to 4 times an
                                              > > hour
                                              > > > for my 55 gal
                                              > > > tank. I've read that if you have plants too much
                                              > > > filtration can remove
                                              > > > nutrients. The other alternative is to got below
                                              > 4
                                              > > > times an hour or to
                                              > > > move up to six times an hour�.too much in my
                                              > > limited
                                              > > > opinion.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > My second question has to do with aeration.
                                              > These
                                              > > > filter are the type
                                              > > > that `splash' the water back into the tank. Is
                                              > > this
                                              > > > good enough for
                                              > > > sufficient aeration or should I also get an air
                                              > > pump
                                              > > > and stone (too
                                              > > > bad my old home brewing stone is made of metal)
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Thanks yet again for your help,
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Eric
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > __________________________________
                                              > > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                                              > > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
                                              > > http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              > >
                                              > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                              > when
                                              > > replying, thanks
                                              > > ..
                                              > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                              > > that is not important to
                                              > > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                              > original
                                              > > message modify the
                                              > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                              > > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                              > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > __________________________________
                                              > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                                              > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
                                              > http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              >
                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                              > replying, thanks
                                              > ..
                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                              > that is not important to
                                              > the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                              > message modify the
                                              > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                              > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                              > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              === message truncated ===





                                              __________________________________
                                              Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                                              Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
                                              http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 8975 From: paul helms Date: 3/9/2005
                                              Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
                                              Attachments :
                                                with no other filter mentioned i assum that your
                                                "30-60" filter has a bio wheel, if not i would not be
                                                surprised if you water quality drops soon
                                                --- m senter <msenter@...> wrote:

                                                > i don't have plants? what is bio wheel? we are
                                                > using sphinen hose. to
                                                > clean tank. we have a very clean tank i can't stand
                                                > dirty tanks. so i clean
                                                > about every 6 to 10 weeks at most because of my big
                                                > goldfish and plecos.
                                                >
                                                > melissa
                                                >
                                                > -------Original Message-------
                                                >
                                                > From: paul helms
                                                > Date: 03/09/05 01:35:27
                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filtration - How many
                                                > gallons/hour?
                                                >
                                                > in my persoanl and professional opinion you should
                                                > shoot for 2x the filtration taht is recommended on
                                                > the
                                                > box, so i would say no. the oxygen added by the
                                                > back
                                                > filter is suffiecient to not need air stones, but
                                                > just
                                                > so you know, the goldfish will eat plants. if they
                                                > are staying, plants may not be doable. i would use
                                                > an
                                                > under gravel filter with 2 powerheads in at least
                                                > part
                                                > of the tank if i were you. many people belive that
                                                > the biowheel is a replacement, but when you do the
                                                > surface area calculations for bacterial growth you
                                                > will find that the biowheel has about 1/3 of what
                                                > the
                                                > ugf uses. the ugf uses the lxw of your tank for its
                                                > base area, and when water is pulled throughthe
                                                > gravel
                                                > it also uses the surface area of all unhindered
                                                > gravel. i am not saying that they are bad, in fact
                                                > they are a great addition that really makes the tank
                                                > more stable. if you desire plants, you can use the
                                                > ugf in part of the tank. for instance use it in the
                                                > middle, plant out the center and do rock work in teh
                                                > middle.
                                                > --- m senter <msenter@...> wrote:
                                                > > paul,
                                                > >
                                                > > I have 55 gal. tank and have 30-60 filter and
                                                > about
                                                > > 30 -35 small mollies,
                                                > > pladdies, and swords and one big fancy tail
                                                > goldfish
                                                > > and a big pleco in it.
                                                > > yes i know goldfish and mollies don't normally go
                                                > > together but the lady we
                                                > > got the tank from had him with them and he was
                                                > fine
                                                > > so we have added to them
                                                > > and is doing fine. but what i would like to know
                                                > is
                                                > > if the filter is big
                                                > > enough for the tank, and i do not have air being
                                                > > pumped into it do i need
                                                > > another filter on it.
                                                > >
                                                > > melissa
                                                > >
                                                > > -------Original Message-------
                                                > >
                                                > > From: paul helms
                                                > > Date: 03/09/05 01:12:15
                                                > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filtration - How many
                                                > > gallons/hour?
                                                > >
                                                > > four times is ok.....6 is much better. i shoot
                                                > for
                                                > > 10
                                                > > times. the more poplulated your tank is, the more
                                                > > filtration it requires. if you are sticking to a
                                                > > small population, 4 ties is fine. the number of
                                                > > times/ hour is irrelevant to plants unless the
                                                > > current
                                                > > is blowing directly on them.
                                                > > --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Here's another question�.I wish I could take you
                                                > > all
                                                > > > out for dinner to
                                                > > > pay you back for all your help.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > I'm sold on the Marienland Emperor Bio-Wheel
                                                > > filter
                                                > > > system. The
                                                > > > Bio-Wheel makes good sense (I could be swayed if
                                                > > > there is good
                                                > > > reason). I have two questions:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > I've read that the tank volume should be
                                                > filtered
                                                > > > four times an hour,
                                                > > > is this true? If it is I'm thinking of getting
                                                > tow
                                                > > > filters that handle
                                                > > > 125gl/hr each, this gets me close to 4 times an
                                                > > hour
                                                > > > for my 55 gal
                                                > > > tank. I've read that if you have plants too much
                                                > > > filtration can remove
                                                > > > nutrients. The other alternative is to got below
                                                > 4
                                                > > > times an hour or to
                                                > > > move up to six times an hour�.too much in my
                                                > > limited
                                                > > > opinion.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > My second question has to do with aeration.
                                                > These
                                                > > > filter are the type
                                                > > > that `splash' the water back into the tank. Is
                                                > > this
                                                > > > good enough for
                                                > > > sufficient aeration or should I also get an air
                                                > > pump
                                                > > > and stone (too
                                                > > > bad my old home brewing stone is made of metal)
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Thanks yet again for your help,
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Eric
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > __________________________________
                                                > > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                                                > > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
                                                > > http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                > >
                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                > when
                                                > > replying, thanks
                                                > > ..
                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                > > that is not important to
                                                > > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                > original
                                                > > message modify the
                                                > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                > > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > __________________________________
                                                > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                                                > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
                                                > http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                >
                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                > replying, thanks
                                                > ..
                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                > that is not important to
                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                > message modify the
                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
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                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                >
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                                                >
                                                === message truncated ===





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                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8976 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: tank smells very plant like
                                                Hi,

                                                My tank smells like the plants have been put threw a blender, its
                                                actually not very plesent on my nose almost acidic.

                                                Don't get me wrong my pH is between 7 and 7.4, my KH GH and Amonia
                                                are all very good, my nitrites are zero but i don't have a nitrate
                                                tester.


                                                what does it smell like if at all when you have high nitrates?

                                                =Nick
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8977 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Re: tank smells very plant like

                                                Nick, What does it mean by “GH, KH and Ammonia are all very good” ???

                                                Tanks do have a bit of smell usually due to algae that has been left on surfaces as is drying or decaying. And this does smell like veggies gone through a blender. You can add melafix to the tank to remove this smell and replace it by cool flavour of camphor.

                                                 

                                                Nim

                                                 

                                                 


                                                From: Nicolas J. Munro [mailto:nedarg@...]
                                                Sent: 09 March 2005 11:22
                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] tank smells very plant like

                                                 


                                                Hi,

                                                My tank smells like the plants have been put threw a blender, its
                                                actually not very plesent on my nose almost acidic.

                                                Don't get me wrong my pH is between 7 and 7.4, my KH GH and Amonia
                                                are all very good, my nitrites are zero but i don't have a nitrate
                                                tester.


                                                what does it smell like if at all when you have high nitrates?

                                                =Nick





                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                .
                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8978 From: Rob And Joyce Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Warning to AllGlass tank owners.
                                                For those of you who own All Glass tanks 3 foot wide and has a center support, mostly bowfronts, and want compact fluoresents because of plants or whatever, the heat from the overlaped lamps will cause failure of that center support. I had a compact on a Perfecto (PetsMart) bow for a few years, no problem. I had that same light on an All Glass for less that a year when it cracked. After contacting the company about a replacement, I found out they have been having a problem with this and I need to deal with the vendor that supplies the store where I bought it. Well, since I bought it from a store I no longer work at, I haven't been able to replace it. I guess the moral is buyer beware and don't buy tanks where you work, who knows how long you'll work there.
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8979 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Viquarium
                                                Mine is a 44 gallon corner pent tank. I have african butterflies, feeder
                                                guppies (that no one ate) dojo and skunk loaches, a betta, 5 fire belly
                                                toads, 2 japanese fire belly newts, 3 california orange belly newts, a
                                                gold big eye tree fron and a sineloan milk frog (and baby sitting 2
                                                fancy goldfish for the in-laws till winter's over in chilly Buffalo
                                                here). Being the freak that I am, I like to refer to it as my
                                                semi-aquatic, always found that cooler sounding than viquarium. I used
                                                a piece of plexi mounted on 3 pieces of pvc for a landing in the back
                                                corner with a ceramic waterfal on that. I've used several different
                                                filters over the years, right now a Fluval 104 (thought I'm not thrilled
                                                with the flow but it still does wonders for biofiltratin and VERY little
                                                maint.). I might put my ToM (oscar) submersable back in to pick u the
                                                detris. This tank has been set up for about 8 years now, and when I
                                                feel like making it cool looking, I turn on the fogger. I also use a
                                                huge phylodendron to aid bio filtration. I have 2 reptile 15 watters
                                                for light, which is also great for the plant. If you go with reptile
                                                lights, have a screen lid, uv doesn't pass well through glass or
                                                plastic.

                                                "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8980 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
                                                Please define what a "float system" is. The only accessories that I've
                                                ever seen come with a drilled or reef-ready tank are:
                                                Overflow boxes (weirs)
                                                pipes with strainer caps (when weirs are not fitted)
                                                ball-socket return tubes

                                                Perhaps you're talking about the pipes with strainer caps (which are often
                                                height adjustable).


                                                I gave a simplified answer to start her on the way, expecting to go into
                                                more detail later.

                                                I would normally advocate overflow boxes to alleviate the chance of a pipe
                                                break due to a rockfall.

                                                With those overflow boxes, I'd recommend some silencing: either a
                                                "Stockman Standpipe" a "Durso Silencer" or a "Hofer Gargle-Buster" to
                                                quiet the overflow. These are DIY modifications named after the inventors
                                                that silence the "toilet flushing" sound, and each can be built for less
                                                than $15.

                                                In a freshwater tank, there is not much need for surface skimming, but
                                                there needs to be a screen or cap to keep small fish from taking a trip to
                                                the sump. In a saltwater tank, surface skimming is crucial.

                                                Store-bought accessories are easy, but DIY (do it yourself) is cheaper and
                                                can have better performance.


                                                Ron Hansen
                                                1st Vice President, Brooklyn Aquarium Society



                                                paul helms said:
                                                >
                                                > the drilled tanks use a float system, not just pvc
                                                > pipe sticking up. the entire kit runs 30-40 dollars
                                                > with the bulk head pipes hose , etc.
                                                > --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                >> Oh, no, no, no. Don't plug that hole. You have
                                                >> "drilled" tank. Most of
                                                >> us have to pay money to put those holes in.
                                                >>
                                                >> Having a drilled tank allows you to easily plumb it
                                                >> for a sump without
                                                >> having to use an overflow box.
                                                >>
                                                >> Basically, you install a bulkhead (which allows PVC
                                                >> pipe to pass through a
                                                >> glass wall without leaks) and then a length of PVC
                                                >> pipe (about 21" in your
                                                >> case) that sticks straight up and ends just below
                                                >> the waterline. Below
                                                >> the tank you run PVC piping down to your sump (a
                                                >> smaller tank below your
                                                >> main tank). The water overflows into the tube and
                                                >> down to the sump. The
                                                >> water will not go below the level of the top of the
                                                >> pipe. In your sump,
                                                >> you have your heater, (if freshwater)filters and
                                                >> carbon, or (if saltwater)
                                                >> your skimmer. You then use a pump to pump the water
                                                >> from the sump back to
                                                >> the tank.
                                                >>
                                                >> The advantages are that you remove all the ugly
                                                >> processing equipment from
                                                >> the display tank and put them into the sump. In
                                                >> addition, evaporation
                                                >> will lower the level in the sump, not the display
                                                >> tank.
                                                >>
                                                >> Bulkheads cost $2-$5. Try
                                                >> http://www.bigalsonline.com for good prices.
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >> If you want to seal up the hole in your glass tank,
                                                >> just get a piece of
                                                >> glass about 6"x6" (1/2" or 3/8" thick) and glue it
                                                >> to the bottom of the
                                                >> tank (inside the tank) with aquarium sealant
                                                >> (silicone). Wait about 24
                                                >> hours for it to cure before adding water.
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >> TC@};- said:
                                                >> >
                                                >> >
                                                >> > Hi I'm TC,, Hubby was given a 75 gal tank that was
                                                >> used for a
                                                >> > lizard. it has a quarter size hole in the
                                                >> bottom.... can we patch
                                                >> > something like that to hold, for a fish tank
                                                >> use,,, or would it just
                                                >> > be better to get a whole new bottom glass? Any
                                                >> tips would help alot,
                                                >> > Thanks TC
                                                >> >
                                                >> > Fix the tank then go to setting up,, more
                                                >> questions to follow, lol
                                                >> >
                                                >> >
                                                >> >
                                                >> >
                                                >> >
                                                >> >
                                                >> > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                >> when replying, thanks
                                                >> > .
                                                >> > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                >> that is not important to
                                                >> > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                >> original message modify the
                                                >> > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                >> subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                >> > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >> >
                                                >> >
                                                >> >
                                                >> >
                                                >> >
                                                >> >
                                                >> >
                                                >> >
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > __________________________________
                                                > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                                                > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
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                                                >
                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                > .
                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
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                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8981 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Re: African Dwarf Frogs - HELP (cross-post)
                                                i have had my 2 african dwarf frogs in a 3 gal with a betta for a couple months now. they are very
                                                active & happy, jump around on the bottom looking for food, dart to the top for water and hang out
                                                in the little cave i made them =) they are fed aquatic frog bites & occassionally frozen brine
                                                shrimp that they share with the betta, whose staple food is hikari betta pellets.

                                                i religiously test the water params & do water changes once a week or sometimes every other week
                                                if water tests are good.

                                                --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                > number one, make sure the frogs get access to air.
                                                > they must be able to stic their heads out of the water
                                                > to beathe. number two, do not over feed. number
                                                > three, you do not have to acclimate frogs to anythiing
                                                > but temp. float for 15 minute sthen net them out to
                                                > the tank.
                                                > --- dawana325 <dawanalea@...> wrote:



                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8982 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
                                                Hi TC,  Have been following this thread.  Sure, that hole can be patched with a piece of 1/4" plate glass and silicone/sealastic cement, as already pointed out, if you do not prefer to install a standpipe.  You of course must use aquarium compatible silicone, not the stuff for bathtubs which has arsenic to prevent mildew.  If unsure, just purchase it at your fish store rather than the hardware.  Main reason I'm following up on this is that I just wanted to point out that tanks once used for larger reptiles and/or mammals are seldom re-usable for fish; something not too many people realize.  I've heard this a number of years ago -- not knowing to believe it or not, I accepted a similar tank.  After thoroughly washing and rinsing this tank, setting it up and using water from an already established tank, I then put fish in it.  Within an hour they were starting to go belly up!  Only my quick action of returning these fish to their original tank saved them.  I can only assume that the concentrated urine/urea impregnates the silicone cement tank seals and leaches out real fast when the tank is re-filled with water.  This may or may not happen all the time  (can't say), and I hate to put a damper on this good fortune of a gift, but I just want you to be aware of this possibility.  After cycling your tank, do not add many expensive fish to it right away;  see what happens first.  Silicone will absorb things as can be readily seen when using dye medications of Ich.  Wishing you the best of luck with it, but be careful.  Regards,  Ray     
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8983 From: mrfabus Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: question about fresh water eels
                                                Two questions what should I feewd them I have been giving them
                                                guppies and gold fish . But Im always looking for new ideas. Also Im
                                                going to buy each one a pipe to hide in what size should I get.

                                                Thank you for any help
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8984 From: paintspatter@comcast.net Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Re: New Member Intro
                                                Thanks, Paul... I've been watching them, and they seem to be doing well. They are eager to eat, and very active. Thank you for the reminder though... I hadn't thought about that until AFTER we bought the two fish. :P  With our larger tank, it will be set up over the course of several months, and the fish will be the very last addition.
                                                -------------- Original message --------------

                                                >
                                                > ADVICE NUMBER 1! do not put fish in the tank so early.
                                                --
                                                Blessings,
                                                Toni
                                                Rakestraw Galleries
                                                http://spinnersflock.com
                                                 
                                                 
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8985 From: ctmh@wyoming.com Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Help, sick tetra
                                                Hello,

                                                I have a Colombian Tetra that I feel is near death. He has been ill
                                                the past three days. His swim pattern is very eratic. He floats as if
                                                near dead in mid tank and then will suddenly swim. I have had him
                                                approx three months. He also has a loss of appetite. There are no
                                                outward signs of any illness. All other tank mates are doing fine. Do
                                                you think he is possibly dying of old age? I almost feel as if he is
                                                suffering, but then at times he swims almost normal. His breathing
                                                patterns seem to be normal as well. Water quality is good, weekly to
                                                bi weekly 20% changes, all other tank mates doing fine. I am clueless
                                                as to what to do for him, if anything. Just don't want him to suffer.
                                                Any ideas would be appreciated, Allisa
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8986 From: Aaron Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Crayfish (was - Re: Hi all)
                                                Do Crayfish like to be out of the tank?

                                                is this true with all crustaceans? - I had (past tense) several
                                                varietys expensive shrimps, they all went for a walk during the
                                                nighttime, found em dried up as far as 50feet or so away from the
                                                tank, mo cats in the house either - some never found

                                                I am tempted to get a Blue "lobster" (crawdad?), do not know
                                                anything about them yet


                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "The Dragon Hunter"
                                                <dragon.hunter@d...> wrote:
                                                .... I let the crays out every
                                                > now and then and then rinse them off before they go back in their
                                                tank.
                                                >...
                                                > >-------------------------------
                                                > > welcome, Steve!
                                                > >
                                                > > What else do you have in your crayfish tank?
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8987 From: Aaron Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Lighting - How many watts/gallon?
                                                ask Nim (Nimish Mathur), he knows alot about it, see his reply to
                                                the post re: Best substrate Lighting for planted tank

                                                6,500 - 6,700degrees Kelvin Rating I believe is best for plant
                                                growth, not 10,000k

                                                some plants do great in low tech systems with no more than 2 watts /
                                                gallon, while certain plants need as much as 4 w/g AND Co2.

                                                I use Compact Flourescents


                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Miner" <eminer1254@y...>
                                                wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Hello All,
                                                >
                                                > As I'm getting closer to starting up my first tank I have a load of
                                                > questions. This one has to do with how much lighting I need.
                                                >
                                                > I've been reading up on everything including lighting. I'm
                                                planning a
                                                > well planted tank. I want medium growth…not too much gardening.
                                                I've
                                                > read that between 2-3 watts/gallon is what I should shoot for. I
                                                think
                                                > I'll use two tubes one with full sunlight spectrum and one rated at
                                                > 10000K. Is this sufficient lighting in your experience?
                                                >
                                                > Thanks,
                                                >
                                                > Eric
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8988 From: Aaron Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Thanks for the invitation
                                                Hi Jenny and Wayne,

                                                You are welcome.

                                                Thanks for joining our community.

                                                Aaron

                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jenny & Wayne"
                                                <deltafolks@y...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Our names are Jenny & Wayne
                                                >
                                                > We have been raising fresh water tropical fish for six years now.
                                                We
                                                > have (2)10gal, (1) 20gal planted, (1) 33gal, and are in the
                                                process
                                                > of setting up a 130 gallon tank.
                                                >
                                                > Our fish range from Danios, Platies, Tetras, Barbs, Angels,
                                                Pleco's
                                                > and Cory's.
                                                >
                                                > Thanks again for the invite......
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8989 From: TC@};- Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q/Ray
                                                Hi Ray thanks so much for the tip... where you ever able to use that
                                                tank? hubbys going to be testing to see if the sealant held
                                                tonight. and yes i got the silicone on the fish isle at walmart
                                                marked for fish tanks. Is there a product out there to remove the
                                                silicone so it can be redone... Thanks for the tip I'll be checking
                                                it closely.Thanks so much! TC
                                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                                ...snipped...
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8990 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Crayfish (was - Re: Hi all)
                                                Dunno about shrimp, but my crays like to come out every now and then. I let
                                                them out for a few minutes. They do need to be kept damp as they will dry
                                                out. But I know since I've been doing that, escape attempts have all but
                                                ended. The mom lets me hand feed her and the youngens are slowly getting
                                                used to it. I know some crabs need access to land, while others are truely
                                                aquatic. All FW are escape artists, so you need to make sure you have all
                                                your openenings taken care off.

                                                As for shrimp, I have had bampoo shrimp in the past and they would never try
                                                to get out of the water. They would expore and one loved my fluval's
                                                suction cups and would stay there till the Dojo Loach would push him out of
                                                the way and take his spot.

                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: "Aaron" <massagetherapist@...>
                                                To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 1:49 PM
                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Crayfish (was - Re: Hi all)


                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Do Crayfish like to be out of the tank?
                                                >
                                                > is this true with all crustaceans? - I had (past tense) several
                                                > varietys expensive shrimps, they all went for a walk during the
                                                > nighttime, found em dried up as far as 50feet or so away from the
                                                > tank, mo cats in the house either - some never found
                                                >
                                                > I am tempted to get a Blue "lobster" (crawdad?), do not know
                                                > anything about them yet
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "The Dragon Hunter"
                                                > <dragon.hunter@d...> wrote:
                                                > .... I let the crays out every
                                                > > now and then and then rinse them off before they go back in their
                                                > tank.
                                                > >...
                                                > > >-------------------------------
                                                > > > welcome, Steve!
                                                > > >
                                                > > > What else do you have in your crayfish tank?
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                > .
                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8991 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Crayfish (was - Re: Hi all)
                                                if you do get a "blue lobster" (Macrobrachium sp. I think), make
                                                sure any fish inhabitants are quick/big enough to not get caught. I
                                                had one briefly and he treated my cories and frogs as if they were
                                                part of a Las Vegas buffet

                                                > I am tempted to get a Blue "lobster" (crawdad?), do not know
                                                > anything about them yet
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8992 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Crayfish (was - Re: Hi all)
                                                if you do get a "blue lobster" (Machrobrachium sp. I think), make
                                                sure the other fish inhabitants are quick or big enough to not
                                                become food for it. I had one briefly and he proceeded to treat my
                                                cories and frogs like a Las Vegas buffet

                                                >
                                                > I am tempted to get a Blue "lobster" (crawdad?), do not know
                                                > anything about them yet
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8993 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Pacific Coast Cichlid Association , 3/12/2005, 7:00 pm
                                                Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                                                Pacific Coast Cichlid Association

                                                Saturday March 12, 2005
                                                7:00 pm - 10:00 pm
                                                This event repeats on the second Saturday of every month.

                                                Event Location: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Avenue in San Jose, California
                                                Notes:
                                                The PCCA meets every second Saturday of the month. Meetings are held a the Round Table Pizza parlor located at 4302 Moorpark Avenue in San Jose, California

                                                http://www.cichlidworld.com/

                                                February 12: Pam Chin
                                                Breeding Malawi Cichlids

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                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8994 From: Venus Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Hello - New Member
                                                Hello and Thank you for the invite. My name is Venus (aka Little
                                                Dragon) and I'm from the Boise Idaho area. I have been maintianed
                                                fish tanks for many years. Although was out of the hobby for about 5
                                                years before reentering it a little over a year ago.

                                                Here are a list of our tanks:

                                                2.5 gallon: (up since xmas)- my youngest sons bedroom
                                                It has a couple of "glow-in-the-dark" plants and "glow-in-the-dark"
                                                treasure chest.
                                                1 (2.5 in) Blue & Red Betta
                                                1 Gold Inca Snail

                                                29 gallon: (up for 1 year)- Family Room
                                                It has a natural decor sytle, with a few fake plants and a fake
                                                driftwood decor.
                                                1 (7 in) Fancy Butterfly Koi (currently looking for a new home)
                                                2 Black Mystery Snail

                                                72 gallon bow-front: (up for 5 months)- Master bedroom
                                                It have tons and tons of fake caves and natural decor.. so there are
                                                at least 18+ different hiding places that I can come up with.. the
                                                tank also is heavy planted (fake plants). So far everyone is getting
                                                along great. (knock on wood... lol)
                                                2 (2 in) Bala Sharks (will be moving to friends 500gal when bigger)
                                                2 (0.75 in) Red-tail Sharks
                                                1 (2 in) Rainbow Shark
                                                1 (2 in) CatFish Shark (will be moving to friends 500gal when bigger)
                                                5 (1.5 in) Zebra Danios
                                                1 (2.0 in) Chinese Algae Eater
                                                5 (.75 in) SwordTails
                                                5 (0.5 in) White Clouds
                                                3 (0.5 in) Green Barbs
                                                3 (0.5 in) Tigar Barbs
                                                3 (0.5 in) Gold Barbs
                                                3 (0.5 in) Cherry Barbs
                                                2 (0.25 in) freshwater Drawf Puffer fish
                                                We are planning on getting algea eaters this weekend maybe a pleco
                                                and a couple of snails.

                                                Once I find a new home for my Koi, I'm not sure what I want to do
                                                with the 29 gallon. I have thought about either a heavey real plant
                                                tank with small fish like White Clouds, Neons, etc. or doing a sand
                                                and rock decor with Cichlids. Guess we will see when the time comes.

                                                I can't wait to learn more about this group and become a regular
                                                member.

                                                Again Thank you.
                                                Venus
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8995 From: Anne Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Re: New Member
                                                Hi Venus, Nice to meet you.
                                                Anne



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                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8996 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Hello - New Member
                                                Venus,
                                                Welcome to the group! I am sure you will enjoy it! Your tanks sound really neat.
                                                Dorothy

                                                Venus <ltldrgn13@...> wrote:

                                                Hello and Thank you for the invite. My name is Venus (aka Little
                                                Dragon) and I'm from the Boise Idaho area. I have been maintianed
                                                fish tanks for many years. Although was out of the hobby for about 5
                                                years before reentering it a little over a year ago.

                                                Here are a list of our tanks:

                                                2.5 gallon: (up since xmas)- my youngest sons bedroom
                                                It has a couple of "glow-in-the-dark" plants and "glow-in-the-dark"
                                                treasure chest.
                                                1 (2.5 in) Blue & Red Betta
                                                1 Gold Inca Snail

                                                29 gallon: (up for 1 year)- Family Room
                                                It has a natural decor sytle, with a few fake plants and a fake
                                                driftwood decor.
                                                1 (7 in) Fancy Butterfly Koi (currently looking for a new home)
                                                2 Black Mystery Snail

                                                72 gallon bow-front: (up for 5 months)- Master bedroom
                                                It have tons and tons of fake caves and natural decor.. so there are
                                                at least 18+ different hiding places that I can come up with.. the
                                                tank also is heavy planted (fake plants). So far everyone is getting
                                                along great. (knock on wood... lol)
                                                2 (2 in) Bala Sharks (will be moving to friends 500gal when bigger)
                                                2 (0.75 in) Red-tail Sharks
                                                1 (2 in) Rainbow Shark
                                                1 (2 in) CatFish Shark (will be moving to friends 500gal when bigger)
                                                5 (1.5 in) Zebra Danios
                                                1 (2.0 in) Chinese Algae Eater
                                                5 (.75 in) SwordTails
                                                5 (0.5 in) White Clouds
                                                3 (0.5 in) Green Barbs
                                                3 (0.5 in) Tigar Barbs
                                                3 (0.5 in) Gold Barbs
                                                3 (0.5 in) Cherry Barbs
                                                2 (0.25 in) freshwater Drawf Puffer fish
                                                We are planning on getting algea eaters this weekend maybe a pleco
                                                and a couple of snails.

                                                Once I find a new home for my Koi, I'm not sure what I want to do
                                                with the 29 gallon. I have thought about either a heavey real plant
                                                tank with small fish like White Clouds, Neons, etc. or doing a sand
                                                and rock decor with Cichlids. Guess we will see when the time comes.

                                                I can't wait to learn more about this group and become a regular
                                                member.

                                                Again Thank you.
                                                Venus





                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                .
                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8997 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
                                                    I would suggesting getting a second filter.  I have a 30-60 marineland Regent filter with no biowheel on my 29 gallon, and I wouldn't have anything smaller, so two of them would probably be about right for a 55 gallon tank.  Also, be prepared for the goldfish to eat all the other fish in the tank as it grows.  To tell the truth, you don't just need the second filter, you need a second 55 gallon tank just to hold some of those mollies, and it will need two filters on it too. :)
                                                 
                                                Patrick, the American Fish Guy
                                                 
                                                Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
                                                About my tanks:  
                                                29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
                                                -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
                                                -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
                                                10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
                                                -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
                                                -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
                                                -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                paul,
                                                 
                                                I have 55 gal. tank and have 30-60 filter and about 30 -35 small mollies, pladdies, and swords and one big fancy tail goldfish and a big pleco in it. yes i know goldfish and mollies don't normally go together but the lady we got the tank from had him with them and he was fine so we have added to them and is doing fine.  but what i would like to know is if the filter is big enough for the tank, and i do not have air being pumped into it do i need another filter on it.
                                                 
                                                melissa
                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8998 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
                                                     6 to 10 weeks because of the goldfish?  That is terrible!  You should be doing 25% water changes every week with such a heavily overstocked tank.  Really, I wish goldfish were not sold as tank fish.  They should really only be kept in a tank during the winter, or in a very large tank with no other fish.  One thing is for sure, if you are cleaning that little, you are slowly killing those fish.
                                                 
                                                Patrick, the American Fish Guy
                                                Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                i don't have plants?  what is bio wheel?  we are using sphinen hose. to clean tank. we have a very clean tank i can't stand dirty tanks. so i clean about every 6 to 10 weeks at most because of my big goldfish and plecos.
                                                 
                                                melissa 
                                                 
                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 8999 From: paul helms Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
                                                the tank itself will come with the overflow box
                                                siliconed in place, but there is an over flow kit
                                                avaialble as well. the stand pipe for the down tube
                                                has a round insert that has an air pocket, so it raise
                                                when water is present and lowers when it is not. this
                                                keeps you from having the glory hole sound at low
                                                levels. the float also keeps anything other than
                                                water going down the pipe. it also comes with the
                                                return pipe with a flexible hard plastic return that
                                                can be positioned to control current. included as
                                                well are silicone, 2 bulkheads, and the flex line to
                                                connect to the downtube so that it is quieter. all
                                                for about 40.00, all perfect size, no guess work.
                                                --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:

                                                > Please define what a "float system" is. The only
                                                > accessories that I've
                                                > ever seen come with a drilled or reef-ready tank
                                                > are:
                                                > Overflow boxes (weirs)
                                                > pipes with strainer caps (when weirs are not fitted)
                                                > ball-socket return tubes
                                                >
                                                > Perhaps you're talking about the pipes with strainer
                                                > caps (which are often
                                                > height adjustable).
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > I gave a simplified answer to start her on the way,
                                                > expecting to go into
                                                > more detail later.
                                                >
                                                > I would normally advocate overflow boxes to
                                                > alleviate the chance of a pipe
                                                > break due to a rockfall.
                                                >
                                                > With those overflow boxes, I'd recommend some
                                                > silencing: either a
                                                > "Stockman Standpipe" a "Durso Silencer" or a "Hofer
                                                > Gargle-Buster" to
                                                > quiet the overflow. These are DIY modifications
                                                > named after the inventors
                                                > that silence the "toilet flushing" sound, and each
                                                > can be built for less
                                                > than $15.
                                                >
                                                > In a freshwater tank, there is not much need for
                                                > surface skimming, but
                                                > there needs to be a screen or cap to keep small fish
                                                > from taking a trip to
                                                > the sump. In a saltwater tank, surface skimming is
                                                > crucial.
                                                >
                                                > Store-bought accessories are easy, but DIY (do it
                                                > yourself) is cheaper and
                                                > can have better performance.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Ron Hansen
                                                > 1st Vice President, Brooklyn Aquarium Society
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > paul helms said:
                                                > >
                                                > > the drilled tanks use a float system, not just pvc
                                                > > pipe sticking up. the entire kit runs 30-40
                                                > dollars
                                                > > with the bulk head pipes hose , etc.
                                                > > --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                > >> Oh, no, no, no. Don't plug that hole. You have
                                                > >> "drilled" tank. Most of
                                                > >> us have to pay money to put those holes in.
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Having a drilled tank allows you to easily plumb
                                                > it
                                                > >> for a sump without
                                                > >> having to use an overflow box.
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Basically, you install a bulkhead (which allows
                                                > PVC
                                                > >> pipe to pass through a
                                                > >> glass wall without leaks) and then a length of
                                                > PVC
                                                > >> pipe (about 21" in your
                                                > >> case) that sticks straight up and ends just below
                                                > >> the waterline. Below
                                                > >> the tank you run PVC piping down to your sump (a
                                                > >> smaller tank below your
                                                > >> main tank). The water overflows into the tube
                                                > and
                                                > >> down to the sump. The
                                                > >> water will not go below the level of the top of
                                                > the
                                                > >> pipe. In your sump,
                                                > >> you have your heater, (if freshwater)filters and
                                                > >> carbon, or (if saltwater)
                                                > >> your skimmer. You then use a pump to pump the
                                                > water
                                                > >> from the sump back to
                                                > >> the tank.
                                                > >>
                                                > >> The advantages are that you remove all the ugly
                                                > >> processing equipment from
                                                > >> the display tank and put them into the sump. In
                                                > >> addition, evaporation
                                                > >> will lower the level in the sump, not the display
                                                > >> tank.
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Bulkheads cost $2-$5. Try
                                                > >> http://www.bigalsonline.com for good prices.
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >> If you want to seal up the hole in your glass
                                                > tank,
                                                > >> just get a piece of
                                                > >> glass about 6"x6" (1/2" or 3/8" thick) and glue
                                                > it
                                                > >> to the bottom of the
                                                > >> tank (inside the tank) with aquarium sealant
                                                > >> (silicone). Wait about 24
                                                > >> hours for it to cure before adding water.
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >> TC@};- said:
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> > Hi I'm TC,, Hubby was given a 75 gal tank that
                                                > was
                                                > >> used for a
                                                > >> > lizard. it has a quarter size hole in the
                                                > >> bottom.... can we patch
                                                > >> > something like that to hold, for a fish tank
                                                > >> use,,, or would it just
                                                > >> > be better to get a whole new bottom glass? Any
                                                > >> tips would help alot,
                                                > >> > Thanks TC
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> > Fix the tank then go to setting up,, more
                                                > >> questions to follow, lol
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                > >> when replying, thanks
                                                > >> > .
                                                > >> > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all
                                                > text
                                                > >> that is not important to
                                                > >> > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                > >> original message modify the
                                                > >> > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                > >> subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                > >> > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > __________________________________
                                                > > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                                                > > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
                                                > > http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                > when replying, thanks
                                                > > .
                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                > that is not important to
                                                > > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                > original message modify the
                                                > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >




                                                __________________________________
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                                                http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9000 From: eggybumstu Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Re: question about fresh water eels
                                                I would say it really depends on what type of eels they are as to
                                                what to feed them and the size of tube would depend on their
                                                eventual mature size and of course how big your tank is. Try giving
                                                as much info as you can in your post and then people can offer
                                                better advice, sorry to be a grump.

                                                Look forward to your next post and maybe we can assist you with this
                                                question.

                                                Cheers Stu ;D

                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mrfabus" <mrfabus@y...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Two questions what should I feewd them I have been giving them
                                                > guppies and gold fish . But Im always looking for new ideas. Also
                                                Im
                                                > going to buy each one a pipe to hide in what size should I get.
                                                >
                                                > Thank you for any help
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9001 From: eggybumstu Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Help, sick tetra
                                                It could be possible that you have a weak fish there and its taken
                                                this long for the problems to arise. As a precaution I would
                                                isolate to another tank and treat for swim bladder or internal
                                                bacteria infection. There will be some products available at your
                                                LFS. If you do not have a spare tank or room for one float a
                                                smaller tank/container in your current set up an move the fish
                                                there. This will prevent any spread of disease to your other
                                                healthy fish and makes it easier to treat your patient. Keep up
                                                your regular manitanence regime as it sounds like water quality is
                                                not an issue with the sick fish and I wish you luck,

                                                Cheers Stu :D

                                                I just thought if he is a lone tetra then its more than likely
                                                stress as they prefer to be in groups, if so get him some freinds if
                                                he pulls through and he may be happier :~)



                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <ctmh@w...> wrote:
                                                > Hello,
                                                >
                                                > I have a Colombian Tetra that I feel is near death. He has been
                                                ill
                                                > the past three days. His swim pattern is very eratic. He floats as
                                                if
                                                > near dead in mid tank and then will suddenly swim. I have had him
                                                > approx three months. He also has a loss of appetite. There are no
                                                > outward signs of any illness. All other tank mates are doing fine.
                                                Do
                                                > you think he is possibly dying of old age? I almost feel as if he
                                                is
                                                > suffering, but then at times he swims almost normal. His breathing
                                                > patterns seem to be normal as well. Water quality is good, weekly
                                                to
                                                > bi weekly 20% changes, all other tank mates doing fine. I am
                                                clueless
                                                > as to what to do for him, if anything. Just don't want him to
                                                suffer.
                                                > Any ideas would be appreciated, Allisa
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9002 From: mrfabus Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: question about fresh water eels
                                                Hello group I have 3 snowflake eels in a 90 gallon tank I was
                                                looking for some new idea and what to feed them I already have been
                                                giving them guppies. I also have 3 gar pike with them . I was
                                                thinking frozen baby shrimp but Im un sure please any help would be
                                                nice

                                                thank you
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9003 From: jazz Date: 3/9/2005
                                                Subject: guppies problem
                                                i have this problem with guppies,
                                                recently i bought four female extra large female guppies,they were so nice
                                                that at glance you will think they are males with the coloration on their
                                                tails,never the less i had offspring from them which i am keeping in a
                                                breeding trap but i am noticing that the fry"s tails are like in a
                                                triangular shape but not as the delta guppies but inward just like
                                                whiptails.
                                                is this some genetical distortion or it may be normal?
                                                thanks
                                                j.azzopardi
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9004 From: Dom Date: 3/10/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Lighting - How many watts/gallon?
                                                The best lighting for planted tank is Metal Halide which is 10,000K
                                                and 150W. But the heat will raise up the temperature of your tank
                                                water.

                                                I would like to suggest you to decide what type of plants you gonna
                                                have in your tank first. Then only decide what type of lighting you
                                                wanna have.

                                                Eric, 10,000K is working fine for those higher lighting required
                                                plants. Like Tonina, glossotigma, riccia...etc. Remember, CO2 must
                                                balance up with the lighting. And keep the water cool.

                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron" <massagetherapist@m...>
                                                wrote:
                                                >
                                                > ask Nim (Nimish Mathur), he knows alot about it, see his reply to
                                                > the post re: Best substrate Lighting for planted tank
                                                >
                                                > 6,500 - 6,700degrees Kelvin Rating I believe is best for plant
                                                > growth, not 10,000k
                                                >
                                                > some plants do great in low tech systems with no more than 2
                                                watts /
                                                > gallon, while certain plants need as much as 4 w/g AND Co2.
                                                >
                                                > I use Compact Flourescents
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Miner" <eminer1254@y...>
                                                > wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > Hello All,
                                                > >
                                                > > As I'm getting closer to starting up my first tank I have a load
                                                of
                                                > > questions. This one has to do with how much lighting I need.
                                                > >
                                                > > I've been reading up on everything including lighting. I'm
                                                > planning a
                                                > > well planted tank. I want medium growth…not too much gardening.
                                                > I've
                                                > > read that between 2-3 watts/gallon is what I should shoot for. I
                                                > think
                                                > > I'll use two tubes one with full sunlight spectrum and one rated
                                                at
                                                > > 10000K. Is this sufficient lighting in your experience?
                                                > >
                                                > > Thanks,
                                                > >
                                                > > Eric
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9005 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/10/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Lighting - How many watts/gallon?

                                                Oh. I must have missed this Thread. Thanks for reminding me Aaron J

                                                 

                                                Yes, MH is the best possible lighting for any tank and will also need less heating (means smaller leccy bills). Halides are more energy efficient then fluorescents so the issue of high bills with Halides is not a question at all.

                                                 

                                                Colour temperature is a very weird term to me now. I am not sure why we still use it but I think it has more to do with what it looks to our eyes rather then the plant eyes.

                                                 

                                                To make a mockery of colour temperature, I have seen the following bulbs:

                                                2800K, CRI (Unknown), Has only large yellow and red with a small blue (Hydroponics HPS Grolux)

                                                3000K, CRI: 93 Near full spectrum

                                                3000K, CRI: 55 No Blue and no red in the spectrum. Just Yellow, orange and a bit of green

                                                3000K, CRI: 62 Just yellow and a very small bit of other shades

                                                 

                                                4200K, CRI 89 Near full spectrum with little green and peaks in Blue, orange, red (I would consider best for plants and a respectable CRI) – GE Cool White, and Osram Ceramic Halide

                                                4200K, CRI 75 Only Blue green and Yellow

                                                4200K, CRI 40 Only a bit of blue with yellow.

                                                 

                                                Below one is interesting:

                                                5200K, CRI 95 Full spectrum. Perfect Beauty bulb and looks like sun light

                                                5200K, CRI 80 Good spectrum except a massive peak in green and yellow and almost nothing in red (I have this bulb and can be horrible for plants)

                                                 

                                                6500K, CRI 80, A Little red missing

                                                6500K, CRI 95, Full spectrum with higher peaks in yellow and blue (good for plants)

                                                6500K, CRI 85, Has a peak in green and yellow. Not very good for plants

                                                 

                                                10000K, CRI 60, Yuk, Horrible. Peaks in Blue and yellow

                                                10000K, CRI 80, Marine bulbs, peaks in Blue but has reasonable all spectrum (good for plants too)

                                                 

                                                13000K, CRI 60, Peaks in Blue and green only

                                                13000K, CRI 80, Peaks in blue and has small peaks in al other major colours including red (Another good marine and plant bulb)

                                                13000K, CRI 85, Peaks in UVB and Blue and small peaks in other major colours with smallest in green and orange. Great for reef and plants.

                                                 

                                                 

                                                What one needs is a combination of CRI and Spectrum but the Intensity is the most important.

                                                 

                                                Halides emit about 100-120 Lumens per watt, Power compact fluorescents emit 80-100 Lumens per watt, Hydroponics HPS (High pressure sodium) emits about 250 Lumens per watt but is practically useless for deep aquariums. If you have a 12” deep tank, this can be a perfect grow bulb or for Paludariums. Most efficient are Low Pressure sodium bulbs used on street lights. They emit 500-800 Lumens per watt but a very orange light.

                                                 

                                                For a high light tank, what is important is that you need high intensity and should have minimum of green for plant growth but green should not be zero as then you will have difficulty in getting the green light to reflect of the plant and it may look very drab. CRI is important for looks. A Low CRI can be good for plants but it will not brighten the colors of the fish. A High CRI with less green and yellow is my preferred bulb but these missing spectrums can be balanced by a second.

                                                 

                                                If you go to most manufacturers website, they can provide a PDF with the details of colour temperature, CRI, Luminosity and Spectral distribution graph for most of the bulbs. If you see 2/3 of these, you will understand what I mean and why colour temperature is not that critical in determining what bulb you need.

                                                 

                                                I know its very complicated, but light itself is so different.

                                                 

                                                Nim

                                                 

                                                 


                                                From: Dom [mailto:dominic.song@...]
                                                Sent: 10 March 2005 08:16
                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Lighting - How many watts/gallon?

                                                 


                                                The best lighting for planted tank is Metal Halide which is 10,000K
                                                and 150W. But the heat will raise up the temperature of your tank
                                                water.

                                                I would like to suggest you to decide what type of plants you gonna
                                                have in your tank first. Then only decide what type of lighting you
                                                wanna have.

                                                Eric, 10,000K is working fine for those higher lighting required
                                                plants. Like Tonina, glossotigma, riccia...etc. Remember, CO2 must
                                                balance up with the lighting. And keep the water cool.

                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron" <massagetherapist@m...>
                                                wrote:
                                                >
                                                > ask Nim (Nimish Mathur), he knows alot about it, see his reply to
                                                > the post re: Best substrate Lighting for planted tank
                                                >
                                                > 6,500 - 6,700degrees Kelvin Rating I believe is best for plant
                                                > growth, not 10,000k
                                                >
                                                > some plants do great in low tech systems with no more than 2
                                                watts /
                                                > gallon, while certain plants need as much as 4 w/g AND Co2.
                                                >
                                                > I use Compact Flourescents
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Miner" <eminer1254@y...>
                                                > wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > Hello All,
                                                > >
                                                > > As I'm getting closer to starting up my first tank I have a load
                                                of
                                                > > questions. This one has to do with how much lighting I need.
                                                > >
                                                > > I've been reading up on everything including lighting. I'm
                                                > planning a
                                                > > well planted tank. I want medium growth…not too much gardening.
                                                > I've
                                                > > read that between 2-3 watts/gallon is what I should shoot for. I
                                                > think
                                                > > I'll use two tubes one with full sunlight spectrum and one rated
                                                at
                                                > > 10000K.  Is this sufficient lighting in your experience?
                                                > >
                                                > > Thanks,
                                                > >
                                                > > Eric





                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                .
                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9006 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/10/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q/Ray
                                                Hi TC, As it was only a 10 gallon tank, I didn't bother fooling with
                                                it and just gave it away to someone who had small reptiles. I don't
                                                know of a product out there to remove the silicone, and if there
                                                were, I don't know how you would go about doing it as of course the
                                                silicone is in between all the glass joints. You would be taking the
                                                whole tank apart. But if you mean removing the excess silicone that
                                                has squeezed out from the joints along the inside corners, etc., you
                                                might try cutting it out with a utility knife and then applying a new
                                                bead of silicone into the corners and along the inside bottom, if you
                                                have a problem. This would be worth a try (if you have any fish
                                                problems) with trying to save that size tank. One thing that does
                                                come to mind; I'm not sure if cutting away the existing silicone bead
                                                would compromise the integrity of the tank. I really don't know one
                                                way or the other. In that case though, you could either put in
                                                additional cross-bracing acrosss the top or you could use strips of
                                                3/8" plate glass (have your glass guy cut it) and silicone that into
                                                all corners instead of just a silicone bead -- that will take care of
                                                it -- I've seen that done, and might be the first thing to consider
                                                (although might not be necessary) if you want to go to the initial
                                                expense. Ray
                                                \
                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "TC@};-" <tc_doucet2001@y...>
                                                wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Hi Ray thanks so much for the tip... where you ever able to use
                                                that
                                                > tank? hubbys going to be testing to see if the sealant held
                                                > tonight. and yes i got the silicone on the fish isle at walmart
                                                > marked for fish tanks. Is there a product out there to remove the
                                                > silicone so it can be redone... Thanks for the tip I'll be checking
                                                > it closely.Thanks so much! TC
                                                > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                                > ...snipped...
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9007 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/10/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q/Ray
                                                TC@};- said:
                                                > Is there a product out there to remove the silicone so it can be redone...

                                                A razor blade is the only thing you can use.
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9008 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/10/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
                                                paul helms said:
                                                >
                                                > the tank itself will come with the overflow box
                                                > siliconed in place, but there is an over flow kit
                                                > avaialble as well. the stand pipe for the down tube
                                                > has a round insert that has an air pocket, so it raise
                                                > when water is present and lowers when it is not. this
                                                > keeps you from having the glory hole sound at low
                                                > levels.
                                                Have you actually used one of these? I don't think it works the way
                                                you're describing, or I'm not understanding you. The only way to reduce
                                                the noise of an open drain is to have the drain opening sealed off from
                                                the outside air. This means that you could put it under a cup or bell
                                                that has its' rim submerged. The drain won't make less noise, but the
                                                noise will not escape into the room, so effectively, it is silenced.

                                                The problem is that this state is not stable. The drain will quickly
                                                start to siphon and will rapidly drain the tank until the water level
                                                drops enough that the rim of the bell breaks the surface and lets air in.
                                                At this point, the air breaks the siphon and you get a loud slurp.

                                                The solution is to add air into the bell at a rate high enough to keep the
                                                siphon from forming, through a hole small enough to keep the sound of the
                                                drain from radiating out. Thus, a small hole at the top of the bell
                                                (above the waterline will let air in and a little sound out. Stick 6" of
                                                airline tubing in there and the noise will be minimal as the tubing will
                                                dampen resonation.

                                                Here is a link to Richard Durso's standpipe design. Total cost: less than
                                                $10. http://www.dursostandpipes.com/

                                                Here is Ken Stockman's improvement on the design. It is more compact and
                                                will fit in a smaller overflow box. It also costs less than $10.
                                                http://www.rl180reef.com/pages/standpipe/standpipe-ken_stockman.htm

                                                Here is a further refinement called the Hofer Gargle Buster. It costs
                                                less than $5 and works better than the other two, but works best in a box.
                                                http://mywebpages.comcast.net/domitron2/HGB/HGB.html

                                                As far as the return, a submerged spraybar is silent, unobtrusive and only
                                                $1 in parts.


                                                > the float also keeps anything other than
                                                > water going down the pipe. it also comes with the
                                                > return pipe with a flexible hard plastic return that
                                                > can be positioned to control current. included as
                                                > well are silicone, 2 bulkheads, and the flex line to
                                                > connect to the downtube so that it is quieter. all
                                                > for about 40.00, all perfect size, no guess work.
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9009 From: helen572 Date: 3/10/2005
                                                Subject: Blue crayfish (response to earlier post)
                                                Sorry, I couldn't find the original post of someone who was asking
                                                about blue crayfish. First off, I highly recommend that you do some
                                                research before you buy a crayfish. (Actually, we should research
                                                before buying any pet!) A good web site that I've used many times is:
                                                http://bluecrayfish.com/ This site is devoted solely to crayfish of
                                                various kinds. I've read that crays can get out of their tanks by
                                                crawling up on rocks, plants,etc. I taped a piece of heavy cardboard
                                                over the opening near the filter. It's important what other fish (if
                                                any) you put in with the cray. Mine was in a tank with five cichlids.
                                                We discovered the cray was female when we saw her carrying her eggs.
                                                She hid in a ceramic log, and apparently ate the eggs because we
                                                never saw baby crays. The above web site said the cichlids would
                                                eventually kill the cray; crays are especially vulnerable when they
                                                have eggs or when molting. So we moved her into her own ten-gallon
                                                tank. We also put in a small pleco and two platys. A few days later,
                                                we couldn't find the pleco. Then another few days later, there was
                                                only one platy. I saw the cray in her ceramic log chowing down on the
                                                platy. So the cray is now by herself. I don't know what fish would
                                                be safe with a cray. Check out that web site. Good luck.
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9010 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/10/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Blue crayfish (response to earlier post)
                                                I will say from experience, don't put a CAE in with a cray. My mom had a 6
                                                inch CAE that had begun bullying its tankmates. So we put it in with my 8
                                                inch Florida Blue Cray figuring that if the cray didn't eat it, I would take
                                                it down to the LFS the next day.

                                                Next morning I woke to discover that the CAE had killed the cray. The LFS
                                                had never seen a CAE that big and after hearing about what it did, put it
                                                with his large oscars and a foot long clown knife. It held its own till it
                                                was sold.

                                                I've since gotten a red crayfish from an LFS. Have kept her with cherry
                                                barbs and sepias with no problem. I've heard mixed views on keeping fish
                                                with them. But the most reliable is indeed bluecrayfish.com. Very helpful.



                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: "helen572" <shirleycat@...>
                                                To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 8:07 AM
                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Blue crayfish (response to earlier post)


                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Sorry, I couldn't find the original post of someone who was asking
                                                > about blue crayfish. First off, I highly recommend that you do some
                                                > research before you buy a crayfish. (Actually, we should research
                                                > before buying any pet!) A good web site that I've used many times is:
                                                > http://bluecrayfish.com/ This site is devoted solely to crayfish of
                                                > various kinds. I've read that crays can get out of their tanks by
                                                > crawling up on rocks, plants,etc. I taped a piece of heavy cardboard
                                                > over the opening near the filter. It's important what other fish (if
                                                > any) you put in with the cray. Mine was in a tank with five cichlids.
                                                > We discovered the cray was female when we saw her carrying her eggs.
                                                > She hid in a ceramic log, and apparently ate the eggs because we
                                                > never saw baby crays. The above web site said the cichlids would
                                                > eventually kill the cray; crays are especially vulnerable when they
                                                > have eggs or when molting. So we moved her into her own ten-gallon
                                                > tank. We also put in a small pleco and two platys. A few days later,
                                                > we couldn't find the pleco. Then another few days later, there was
                                                > only one platy. I saw the cray in her ceramic log chowing down on the
                                                > platy. So the cray is now by herself. I don't know what fish would
                                                > be safe with a cray. Check out that web site. Good luck.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                > .
                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9011 From: Rosahoic Date: 3/10/2005
                                                Subject: Trying Live Plants for the first time..
                                                Hi everyone,

                                                I've decided to move to real plants from plastic, because they are so
                                                beautiful. In the next week or so I have live plants being shipped
                                                in. I've done web research, have a bright power compact light as
                                                recommended for my size aquarium.

                                                A couple of questions. When I do my bi-weekly water change, when I
                                                also vacuum the gravel of the tank, how do I deal with the plants.
                                                Should I put them all in pots and pull the pots out while cleaning? Or
                                                do I just put the roots in the gravel and still pull them up when I'm
                                                cleaning? Or do I just try to work around them. Inquiring minds want
                                                to grow! If you have good web resources out there for growing live
                                                plants in aquariums that would help, I would be interested in seeing
                                                those too. As I said, I've been doing some research. I've got the
                                                bright light thing down, and that explains why I didn't have success
                                                with live plants in the past ;) So now I have my new brighter, or
                                                perhaps that isn't the word, better spectrum? Plant light. Anything
                                                else you can recommend would be benefical. :)


                                                --
                                                Chat with you later,
                                                Alan
                                                --
                                                Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                http://www.GardenersCorner.com
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                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9012 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/10/2005
                                                Subject: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
                                                Attachments :

                                                  I rescued a freshwater tank with 15 fish.  It was left without electricity in the house, so no pumps, filters, or heat, for 48 hours before I found them.

                                                  I’ve since put them in a 55 gal tank that was sitting unused for years in this homes kitchen.  Very dirty!

                                                   

                                                  Some of the problems I’m seeing are:

                                                  The fish will ALL go to the top of the water, the above pic is of this, as if they trying to breathe.  (I’ve changed the water, ½ of it, and added some more air and this has helped with that somewhat.)  But they still go to the top periodically and it’s all of them at once which worries me.

                                                   

                                                  The 3 schooling fish have bubble looking things on their bottom lips.  (I treated with Juungle Tank buddies fungus treatment last night but I’m not positive that this is a fungus.)

                                                   

                                                  I’m seeing white clouds with red middles floating around the tank.  I was told this might be fungus growing on old food.  (I’m hoping the fungus treatment will wipe that out.)

                                                   

                                                  I’ve had the water tested and it was high in ammonia.  (I’ve treated with Amquel + and have been told to get regular Amquel or Hikari Conditioner.  I haven’t found either yet but am going this morning to try again.)

                                                   

                                                  There are two large placostumus.  One is 14” and the other is just 7”.  They are starving!  There is no algae in this tank yet is there?  (They are being given lots of veggie pellets and other bottom dweller discs as well as cucumber spears at night but is this enough?)

                                                   

                                                  OK, so if you see something I am not doing that should be done, I would greatly appreciate knowing this.  I have never owned a tank and this was not by choice.  I either took them or let them die and letting them die wasn’t an option.  The tank has an undergravel filtration which will be replaced with a new tank and filter next week.  But not until next week, and I want to make sure these guys are taken care of until then. 

                                                  Only one of the pump power heads has a tube going to the filter and it is covered in old algae.  No telling what the inside looks like either.  The other power head is new and is serving to aerate the tank.  It has no tube (it was split).

                                                   

                                                  I’ve lost one fire mouth (he was left in the abandoned tank for almost another full 24 hours after I got the others.  I went back the next day and saw him then.)  And lost one catfish.  This was just yesterday when they were all at the top.  The other catfish was almost dead until I changed a lot of the water.  Why did this make such a difference?

                                                   

                                                  Thanks for any help at all!

                                                   

                                                  Leslie ~ Native Texan!

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9013 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
                                                  Ammonia kills fish.. changing the water brung down the ammonia level. No matter what you do your tank will have to cycle.
                                                  Cycling a tank
                                                    if link don't work cut/paste following

                                                  http://www.flippersandfins.net/Cycling.htm 

                                                  It would probally be best for you and for the fish to see if the Local fish store will take your fish off your hands.

                                                  The bio load in your tank right now ( all the fish plus uneaten foods ) is causing a toxic waste land.  Amquel will help, for a few hours maybe a day but it is not the solution.  

                                                  If it was me I'd start over if the LFS would take the fish but if you are determinded to keep the fish. I would look into possibly trying  Bio-spira
                                                    its a product that will dump a lot of bacteria into your water to combat the ammonia, and help cycle your tank along.

                                                  Good luck and just be prepared to loose some of your fish, no matter what you do...

                                                  rob
                                                  NE Indiana



                                                  In a message dated 3/10/2005 12:15:12 PM US Eastern Standard Time, amjmail@... writes:


                                                  I’ve lost one fire mouth (he was left in the abandoned tank for almost another full 24 hours after I got the others.  I went back the next day and saw him then.)  And lost one catfish.  This was just yesterday when they were all at the top.  The other catfish was almost dead until I changed a lot of the water.  Why did this make such a difference?


                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9014 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: MarineBio chat , 3/10/2005, 5:00 pm
                                                  Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
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                                                  Notes:
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                                                  Be sure to check out our MarineBio Chat, every Monday from 8pm to 9pm and Thursday from 8pm to 10pm Eastern Time.

                                                  Chat LIVE with one of our on-staff Marine Biologists.

                                                  Learn more about your fish, how to treat common maladies, get recommendations on accessories, food and live animal compatibility, or ask a question that only an expert could answer.

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                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9015 From: mrfabus Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: new question about snowflake eels
                                                  Hello group I have 3 snowflake eels in a 90 gallon tank I was
                                                  looking for some new idea and what to feed them I already have been
                                                  giving them guppies. I also have 3 gar pike with them . I was
                                                  thinking frozen baby shrimp but Im un sure please any help would be
                                                  nice

                                                  thank you
                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9016 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions

                                                  That’s the most discouraging thing I’ve heard from anyone.

                                                  Would it help if I changed ¼ to 1/3 of the water each day until it gets regulated?  That with the Bio-Spira maybe?

                                                  I will be starting over with the new tank but I can’t get it moved in here until late next week.  Will they be OK until then if I change the water and keep that up?

                                                  My husband really wants this tank to work out.  And getting a free 75 gallon tank, stand and all the parts is a pretty hard to thing to pass up.  I’m pretty to make this work out, mainly for him and because I’m attached to the two Red Devil/Severum crossbreeds.  They are so unique in personalities! 

                                                   

                                                  Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: FortWayneFish@... [mailto:FortWayneFish@...]
                                                  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 12:03 PM
                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rescued a tank, have lots of questions

                                                   

                                                  Ammonia kills fish.. changing the water brung down the ammonia level. No matter what you do your tank will have to cycle.
                                                  Cycling a tank  if link don't work cut/paste following

                                                  http://www.flippersandfins.net/Cycling.htm 

                                                  It would probally be best for you and for the fish to see if the Local fish store will take your fish off your hands.

                                                  The bio load in your tank right now ( all the fish plus uneaten foods ) is causing a toxic waste land.  Amquel will help, for a few hours maybe a day but it is not the solution.  

                                                  If it was me I'd start over if the LFS would take the fish but if you are determinded to keep the fish. I would look into possibly trying  Bio-spira  its a product that will dump a lot of bacteria into your water to combat the ammonia, and help cycle your tank along.

                                                  Good luck and just be prepared to loose some of your fish, no matter what you do...

                                                  rob
                                                  NE Indiana



                                                  In a message dated 3/10/2005 12:15:12 PM US Eastern Standard Time, amjmail@... writes:



                                                  I’ve lost one fire mouth (he was left in the abandoned tank for almost another full 24 hours after I got the others.  I went back the next day and saw him then.)  And lost one catfish.  This was just yesterday when they were all at the top.  The other catfish was almost dead until I changed a lot of the water.  Why did this make such a difference?





                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                  .
                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9017 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
                                                  I'd have to agree with Rob. It appears this abandoned tank has a lot
                                                  of work to be done on it. having the fish trying to survive in it
                                                  will only make things harder. Be prepared to loose most of the fish,
                                                  especially if you have never owned a tank before.

                                                  Dont get discouraged, since if every fish dies you can always start
                                                  fresh with new fish and your new free tank!

                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                  <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                  > That?s the most discouraging thing I?ve heard from anyone.
                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9018 From: Venus Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: Too cute...
                                                  This was just too cute I had to share...

                                                  Yesterday after work I did a vacuum and water change on my 72gal
                                                  tank... while vacuuming the tank three of the zebra fish starting
                                                  trying to attack and bite my arm, within a few seconds I have the
                                                  zebra fish, most of the barbs (about 7-8) and one of the red-tail
                                                  sharks all attacking my arm.. I was laughing so hard it toke forever
                                                  to stop.

                                                  The other cute thing they all do is every morning and night when I
                                                  take out the fish food and walk up to the tank all but a couple of
                                                  the fish swim right up to the glass, if I move they move. It is one
                                                  of the weirdest things I have ever seen. They don't do this any other
                                                  time; I come over to the tank, only at feeding... lol

                                                  Venus
                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9019 From: Venus Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: Freshwater Puffer Fish ?????
                                                  Does anyone know much about the Freshwater Puffer fish?? My husband
                                                  brought 2 home from the pet store a couple of weeks ago... They are
                                                  the cutest little guys. They were labeled as "Freshwater Dwarf Puffer
                                                  Fish".. Sorry I don't have a photo but it is a puffer fish that has
                                                  leopard print… if that helps?? The store told him they get about 3-4
                                                  inches big, are aggressive fish and love to hide in caves.

                                                  Well here is what I have found out though research online.. They only
                                                  get about 1 inch big, are very aggressive fish (although we haven't
                                                  seen this behavior yet) and never hide.. The little guys swim around
                                                  looking at the rock and plants all day and night and LOVE to swim up
                                                  to the glass when someone is by the fish tank.. They love to eat the
                                                  flake food and frozen blood worms and brine shrimp.

                                                  Has anyone had any or know anything about them?? Advise, comments,
                                                  thoughts, suggests, etc would be great.
                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9020 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions

                                                  I haven’t owned one before, that’s why I am asking all the questions.  

                                                  And frankly I don’t have the attitude that I am going to lose these fish.  I’m not mad, sorry if it sounds that way.

                                                  I just don’t have a sit back and watch them croak attitude.  I have bought things for these guys since the day I hauled them over here in buckets.  They were freezing, suffocating and starving.  They could not swim but lay on the floor without even moving their gills.

                                                  That tells me these guys are strong willed and aren’t going to give easily.  I am constantly watching them for any changes, treating them immediately and it has worked to this point.  I am on them every hour minus about 5 at night.

                                                  With that said, do you really think this is hopeless or just too much to deal with as a newbie to tanks?

                                                  Thanks.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: joequality1980 [mailto:crazy.joe.walcek@...]
                                                  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 2:24 PM
                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions

                                                   


                                                  I'd have to agree with Rob. It appears this abandoned tank has a lot
                                                  of work to be done on it. having the fish trying to survive in it
                                                  will only make things harder. Be prepared to loose most of the fish,
                                                  especially if you have never owned a tank before.

                                                  Dont get discouraged, since if every fish dies you can always start
                                                  fresh with new fish and your new free tank!

                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                  <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                  > That?s the most discouraging thing I?ve heard from anyone.






                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                  .
                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9021 From: Ben Noreau Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: Breeding swordtails and mollys.
                                                  Hello all!,
                                                   
                                                       Just a question about breeding molly's and swordtails.  I was talking with an owner of a pet store.  I am getting ready to get my 55 gallon running .  In my searching of the internet I have found varieties of these fish that arent normally seen here in my area.  I asked him if he was able to special order me specific types of fish.  (I checked with walmart and my go-to guy is working on it for me)  He said it would depend (as in how much is in it for him kind of way) on what I wanted.  I explained that I wanted specific kinds of livebearers in larger quantites (I thought the large quantites would help him see dollar signs and be more cooperative) so that I could breed them.
                                                   
                                                       He stated to me that I didnt need to order the specific types.  He said that I could breed them.  He stated that swordtails will breed with swordtails no matter what type, and the same goes for mollies.  Is this true? 
                                                   
                                                       I can see where it would be and would not be.  Breeding a black lab with a yellow lab is ok, but breeding a german sheppard with a poodle is not.
                                                   
                                                        I want to be a responsible breeder.  I also want to know where I stand.  Do I insist on getting 6 pineapple swordtails, or is it ok to get 6 assorted and let them interbreed if it is morally and biologically possible.
                                                   
                                                  Thanks for the help in advance,
                                                  Ben


                                                  Ben


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                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9022 From: Ben Noreau Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
                                                  Hello,
                                                   
                                                       I am a newbie as well and cannot offer much as far as advice on the situation.  I do wish you luck.  I am going to offer a realsitic look on the situation.  It would be better to start off the new tank right and give the fish the best chance and loose a few, than it would be to rush the new tank and loose the whole lot.  There may not be a lot going right with the tank now, but it can be with the new one.  Just keep doing what you are, they have lived this long, you must be doing something right.
                                                   
                                                        Some things that I can offer are this:
                                                  Keep the water clean
                                                  Dont over feed
                                                  keep the tank out of the sunlight if it doesnt have plants, if it does be careful of algae
                                                  keep the noise and motion around the tank down it will help reduce stress
                                                  limit use of tank lighting that will help reduce stress.
                                                   
                                                        Once again good luck,
                                                   
                                                  Ben


                                                  Ben

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                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9023 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
                                                  If you are constantly watching them and treating them immediately,
                                                  then it appears you will be rewarded at the end. It's not hopeless:
                                                  in the very worst situation you will have a new tank with no fish.
                                                  However, judging by your amount of care, that wont happen; you
                                                  should be rewarded at the end with some healthy, recovering fish.

                                                  It's admirable that you're putting yourself through a challenge, for
                                                  not many people would do that to such a cheap pet (contrasted to a
                                                  dog or cat, for example). Keep everyone posted so that we may help
                                                  should more problems arrise.

                                                  > That tells me these guys are strong willed and aren't going to give
                                                  > easily. I am constantly watching them for any changes, treating
                                                  them
                                                  > immediately and it has worked to this point. I am on them every
                                                  hour
                                                  > minus about 5 at night.
                                                  > With that said, do you really think this is hopeless or just too
                                                  much to
                                                  > deal with as a newbie to tanks?
                                                  > Thanks.
                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9024 From: Aaron Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: Re: Hello - New Member
                                                  Hi,

                                                  Welcome.

                                                  Do you have any photos of your tanks you can share?
                                                  (I'd really like to see pics of your friends 500 gallon too)

                                                  I've never seen a Freshwater that big, my imagination is going wild
                                                  trying to guess what all is in there

                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Venus" <ltldrgn13@c...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > ...> 2 (2 in) Bala Sharks (will be moving to friends 500gal when
                                                  bigger)...
                                                  > 1 (2 in) CatFish Shark (will be moving to friends 500gal when
                                                  bigger)...> Venus
                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9025 From: paul helms Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
                                                  yes i have used it, they are usually offered with any
                                                  quality tank.
                                                  --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                  > paul helms said:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > the tank itself will come with the overflow box
                                                  > > siliconed in place, but there is an over flow kit
                                                  > > avaialble as well. the stand pipe for the down
                                                  > tube
                                                  > > has a round insert that has an air pocket, so it
                                                  > raise
                                                  > > when water is present and lowers when it is not.
                                                  > this
                                                  > > keeps you from having the glory hole sound at low
                                                  > > levels.
                                                  > Have you actually used one of these? I don't think
                                                  > it works the way
                                                  > you're describing, or I'm not understanding you.
                                                  > The only way to reduce
                                                  > the noise of an open drain is to have the drain
                                                  > opening sealed off from
                                                  > the outside air. This means that you could put it
                                                  > under a cup or bell
                                                  > that has its' rim submerged. The drain won't make
                                                  > less noise, but the
                                                  > noise will not escape into the room, so effectively,
                                                  > it is silenced.
                                                  >
                                                  > The problem is that this state is not stable. The
                                                  > drain will quickly
                                                  > start to siphon and will rapidly drain the tank
                                                  > until the water level
                                                  > drops enough that the rim of the bell breaks the
                                                  > surface and lets air in.
                                                  > At this point, the air breaks the siphon and you get
                                                  > a loud slurp.
                                                  >
                                                  > The solution is to add air into the bell at a rate
                                                  > high enough to keep the
                                                  > siphon from forming, through a hole small enough to
                                                  > keep the sound of the
                                                  > drain from radiating out. Thus, a small hole at the
                                                  > top of the bell
                                                  > (above the waterline will let air in and a little
                                                  > sound out. Stick 6" of
                                                  > airline tubing in there and the noise will be
                                                  > minimal as the tubing will
                                                  > dampen resonation.
                                                  >
                                                  > Here is a link to Richard Durso's standpipe design.
                                                  > Total cost: less than
                                                  > $10. http://www.dursostandpipes.com/
                                                  >
                                                  > Here is Ken Stockman's improvement on the design.
                                                  > It is more compact and
                                                  > will fit in a smaller overflow box. It also costs
                                                  > less than $10.
                                                  >
                                                  http://www.rl180reef.com/pages/standpipe/standpipe-ken_stockman.htm
                                                  >
                                                  > Here is a further refinement called the Hofer Gargle
                                                  > Buster. It costs
                                                  > less than $5 and works better than the other two,
                                                  > but works best in a box.
                                                  > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/domitron2/HGB/HGB.html
                                                  >
                                                  > As far as the return, a submerged spraybar is
                                                  > silent, unobtrusive and only
                                                  > $1 in parts.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > > the float also keeps anything other than
                                                  > > water going down the pipe. it also comes with the
                                                  > > return pipe with a flexible hard plastic return
                                                  > that
                                                  > > can be positioned to control current. included as
                                                  > > well are silicone, 2 bulkheads, and the flex line
                                                  > to
                                                  > > connect to the downtube so that it is quieter.
                                                  > all
                                                  > > for about 40.00, all perfect size, no guess work.
                                                  >
                                                  >



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                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9026 From: Steve Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
                                                  Leslie,

                                                  Can't really make out the fish from your photo. Can you tell us what they
                                                  are and give approximate sizes?

                                                  You do have a number of factors going against you here, but you may be able
                                                  to work through them.

                                                  First is to get the cycle started in that tank. Cut back on the food. Feed
                                                  maybe every other day, and only the food all the fish will eat in 2-3
                                                  minutes. This sparing feeding will help cut back on the amount of ammonia
                                                  the fish will be adding to the tank. For the plecos, feed them some algae
                                                  wafers, zucchini slices, or peas with the shell removed, and feed them at
                                                  night.

                                                  Test the water daily, and continue the use of Amquel, according to
                                                  directions, as needed. Amquel will turn the ammonia into a non-toxic form
                                                  for the fish, and the bacteria will still be able to utilize it to start to
                                                  establish the cycle. Be aware that Amquel will cause Nessler reagent based
                                                  test kits to give a false reading (the kits will show hues of amber and
                                                  yellow to indicate the presence of ammonia), I saw no such indication of
                                                  the same for Amquel Plus (a product I have not used), but I would presume
                                                  the same to be true. Use an ammonia test kit that uses salicylate-type
                                                  reagents. It looks like Amquel Plus may be more beneficial in this case than
                                                  the straight Amquel, since the Plus also helps with nitrites and nitrates,
                                                  the intermediate and final products of the ammonia cycle. If you need more
                                                  information about the Amquel products, let me know as I know someone who is
                                                  really up to snuff on them, and will write him for more information. Test
                                                  the water daily to determine how the cycle is going. The ammonia should
                                                  spike, and level off, then it should start to fall. When this happens, the
                                                  nitrites will start to spike, level off, then fall, and the nitrates will
                                                  start to rise. When the ammonia and nitrites are not detectable, then you
                                                  have cycled the tank.

                                                  The fish at the surface may be more an indication of stress than a real need
                                                  for oxygen. As long as you are turning the water over 4-6 times per hour
                                                  with your filtration, you should be all set in the gaseous exchange that
                                                  occurs in the aquarium.

                                                  I'd stop the fungus treatment right away. First, a bubble on the lip is
                                                  probably not fungus. It may be more that the fish is injured and will
                                                  probably recover on its own. Probably rammed the side of the tank or
                                                  something. Never, ever treat for something you don't know what it is. If you
                                                  have to guess, then don't treat. There are actually very few fish diseases
                                                  and parasite we can successfully treat with medication--far less than most
                                                  would have you believe.

                                                  Do a 10% water change every day, and try to gather some of the stuff you
                                                  have floating in the tank or sitting in/on the substrate as you remove the
                                                  water. Prior to adding new water, dose the tank with the requisite dose of
                                                  Amquel Plus. Now is not the time to play with any of the other water
                                                  parameters like hardness or pH.

                                                  You don't mention the temperature of the tank. I don't know what fish you
                                                  have in it. During this period, I'd keep the temperature down on the low end
                                                  for the fish. This will cause their metabolism to slow and help with your
                                                  cycle, as they will be contributing less waste to the process. I also
                                                  noticed you have no live plants in the photo in your post. Keep the lights
                                                  on the tank off, and just use ambient light as much as possible to view the
                                                  fish. This will also help slow them down. Don't be afraid to turn on your
                                                  tank lights if you need to, just be sure to turn them off when you are done.

                                                  Finally, cross your fingers and pray.

                                                  \\Steve//
                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@...]
                                                  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 9:35 AM
                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Rescued a tank, have lots of questions


                                                  I rescued a freshwater tank with 15 fish. It was left without electricity
                                                  in the house, so no pumps, filters, or heat, for 48 hours before I found
                                                  them.
                                                  I’ve since put them in a 55 gal tank that was sitting unused for years in
                                                  this homes kitchen. Very dirty!


                                                  Some of the problems I’m seeing are:
                                                  The fish will ALL go to the top of the water, the above pic is of this, as
                                                  if they trying to breathe. (I’ve changed the water, ½ of it, and added some
                                                  more air and this has helped with that somewhat.) But they still go to the
                                                  top periodically and it’s all of them at once which worries me.

                                                  The 3 schooling fish have bubble looking things on their bottom lips. (I
                                                  treated with Juungle Tank buddies fungus treatment last night but I’m not
                                                  positive that this is a fungus.)

                                                  I’m seeing white clouds with red middles floating around the tank. I was
                                                  told this might be fungus growing on old food. (I’m hoping the fungus
                                                  treatment will wipe that out.)

                                                  I’ve had the water tested and it was high in ammonia. (I’ve treated with
                                                  Amquel + and have been told to get regular Amquel or Hikari Conditioner. I
                                                  haven’t found either yet but am going this morning to try again.)

                                                  There are two large placostumus. One is 14” and the other is just 7”. They
                                                  are starving! There is no algae in this tank yet is there? (They are being
                                                  given lots of veggie pellets and other bottom dweller discs as well as
                                                  cucumber spears at night but is this enough?)

                                                  OK, so if you see something I am not doing that should be done, I would
                                                  greatly appreciate knowing this. I have never owned a tank and this was not
                                                  by choice. I either took them or let them die and letting them die wasn’t
                                                  an option. The tank has an undergravel filtration which will be replaced
                                                  with a new tank and filter next week. But not until next week, and I want
                                                  to make sure these guys are taken care of until then.
                                                  Only one of the pump power heads has a tube going to the filter and it is
                                                  covered in old algae. No telling what the inside looks like either. The
                                                  other power head is new and is serving to aerate the tank. It has no tube
                                                  (it was split).

                                                  I’ve lost one fire mouth (he was left in the abandoned tank for almost
                                                  another full 24 hours after I got the others. I went back the next day and
                                                  saw him then.) And lost one catfish. This was just yesterday when they
                                                  were all at the top. The other catfish was almost dead until I changed a
                                                  lot of the water. Why did this make such a difference?

                                                  Thanks for any help at all!

                                                  Leslie ~ Native Texan!
                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9027 From: paul helms Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
                                                  the tank has to be allowed to cycle, so massive
                                                  frequent water changes will not do anything but
                                                  prolong the problems. if you want the best chance,
                                                  add a dose of stress zyme every other day for the next
                                                  3 weeks. the food it provides to the bacteria will
                                                  make it breed faster, and keeep the fish less
                                                  stressed.
                                                  paul
                                                  --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  > I rescued a freshwater tank with 15 fish. It was
                                                  > left without
                                                  > electricity in the house, so no pumps, filters, or
                                                  > heat, for 48 hours
                                                  > before I found them.
                                                  > I�ve since put them in a 55 gal tank that was
                                                  > sitting unused for years
                                                  > in this homes kitchen. Very dirty!
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Some of the problems I�m seeing are:
                                                  > The fish will ALL go to the top of the water, the
                                                  > above pic is of this,
                                                  > as if they trying to breathe. (I�ve changed the
                                                  > water, � of it, and
                                                  > added some more air and this has helped with that
                                                  > somewhat.) But they
                                                  > still go to the top periodically and it�s all of
                                                  > them at once which
                                                  > worries me.
                                                  >
                                                  > The 3 schooling fish have bubble looking things on
                                                  > their bottom lips.
                                                  > (I treated with Juungle Tank buddies fungus
                                                  > treatment last night but I�m
                                                  > not positive that this is a fungus.)
                                                  >
                                                  > I�m seeing white clouds with red middles floating
                                                  > around the tank. I
                                                  > was told this might be fungus growing on old food.
                                                  > (I�m hoping the
                                                  > fungus treatment will wipe that out.)
                                                  >
                                                  > I�ve had the water tested and it was high in
                                                  > ammonia. (I�ve treated
                                                  > with Amquel + and have been told to get regular
                                                  > Amquel or Hikari
                                                  > Conditioner. I haven�t found either yet but am
                                                  > going this morning to
                                                  > try again.)
                                                  >
                                                  > There are two large placostumus. One is 14� and the
                                                  > other is just 7�.
                                                  > They are starving! There is no algae in this tank
                                                  > yet is there? (They
                                                  > are being given lots of veggie pellets and other
                                                  > bottom dweller discs as
                                                  > well as cucumber spears at night but is this
                                                  > enough?)
                                                  >
                                                  > OK, so if you see something I am not doing that
                                                  > should be done, I would
                                                  > greatly appreciate knowing this. I have never owned
                                                  > a tank and this was
                                                  > not by choice. I either took them or let them die
                                                  > and letting them die
                                                  > wasn�t an option. The tank has an undergravel
                                                  > filtration which will be
                                                  > replaced with a new tank and filter next week. But
                                                  > not until next week,
                                                  > and I want to make sure these guys are taken care of
                                                  > until then.
                                                  > Only one of the pump power heads has a tube going to
                                                  > the filter and it
                                                  > is covered in old algae. No telling what the inside
                                                  > looks like either.
                                                  > The other power head is new and is serving to aerate
                                                  > the tank. It has
                                                  > no tube (it was split).
                                                  >
                                                  > I�ve lost one fire mouth (he was left in the
                                                  > abandoned tank for almost
                                                  > another full 24 hours after I got the others. I
                                                  > went back the next day
                                                  > and saw him then.) And lost one catfish. This was
                                                  > just yesterday when
                                                  > they were all at the top. The other catfish was
                                                  > almost dead until I
                                                  > changed a lot of the water. Why did this make such
                                                  > a difference?
                                                  >
                                                  > Thanks for any help at all!
                                                  >
                                                  > Leslie ~ Native Texan!
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >



                                                  __________________________________
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                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9028 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: The San Diego Tropical Fish Society , 3/13/2005, 7:00 pm
                                                  Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                                                  The San Diego Tropical Fish Society

                                                  Sunday March 13, 2005
                                                  7:00 pm - 8:00 pm
                                                  This event repeats on the second Sunday of every month.

                                                  Event Location: room 101, Casa Del Prado, Balboa Park at 7:00 PM
                                                  Street: SAN DIEGO TROPICAL FISH SOCIETY, PO Box 4156, North Park Station
                                                  City, State, Zip: San Diego, CA 92164
                                                  Phone: 619-281-FISH

                                                  Notes:
                                                  http://www.geocities.com/sandiegofishfan/

                                                  You are cordially invited to attend our next meeting in room 101, Casa Del Prado, Balboa Park at 7:00 PM on the second Sunday of the month. Visitors are always welcome! 619-281-FISH

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                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9029 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions

                                                  I wish I knew what they were. 

                                                  I did find out the two large ones are cross breeds of Red Devil and severums.  They are 4 & 5” in length. 

                                                  The plecos are 7” and 15”.   (the larger one is on his way to a pond this week.)  There are 3 silver, striped schooling fish and they are about 3” in length and narrow.  There are two little flat ones with a black fin on top and one on bottom, these are about an inch ½ long (and found out tonight that eat live fish). There is a fire mouth, 4” long.  A little red/silver thing 1 ½” long and a reddish silvery thing 1 ½”.  One catfish about 4”.

                                                  The guy said he kept the temp around 78, it’s been about that since we’ve had it. 

                                                   

                                                  We are messing with the filtration tonight and found out that one of the pumps was not connected and the waste has been gathering up in the corner…gross.  So we cleaned the gravel as best can be done with this thing while the fish are still in there.  I think that will make a big difference. 

                                                   

                                                  If fish ever lived in poverty, this would be it.  The tubes to the power heads are so brittle they’ve broken to the touch.  You can’t find replacements for them so we’re literally rigging a tube that’s 1/8” too small to fit onto this pump head.  The gravel looks like it was never cleaned.  I scooped some out in a pitcher and ran water over it in the sink.  When I dumped it out the water was thick black.

                                                  The plants, plastic, had algae so long and thick it was flowing with the current.  I just hope they didn’t go from bad to worse.

                                                   

                                                  I’m supposed to get the other tank this Monday and start to work on it so any advice as to what to do to get it ready for these fish will be greatly appreciated.  I will likely post a help message once I get it moved in.  (how to clean the gravel would be a nice start; and once I know more about the filtration it has, I can post on that.)

                                                   

                                                  Thanks for all the help. 

                                                   

                                                  Oh, and the bubble blister thing on their mouthes turned out to be cotton mouth (or something like that.) The treatment did the job.  The blister things are gone and they are their over active selves.  Wish I knew what they were.  They’re a hoot.

                                                   

                                                  Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: Steve [mailto:steve@...]
                                                  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 8:13 PM
                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rescued a tank, have lots of questions

                                                   

                                                  Leslie,

                                                  Can't really make out the fish from your photo. Can you tell us what they
                                                  are and give approximate sizes?

                                                  You do have a number of factors going against you here, but you may be able
                                                  to work through them.

                                                  First is to get the cycle started in that tank. Cut back on the food. Feed
                                                  maybe every other day, and only the food all the fish will eat in 2-3
                                                  minutes. This sparing feeding will help cut back on the amount of ammonia
                                                  the fish will be adding to the tank. For the plecos, feed them some algae
                                                  wafers, zucchini slices, or peas with the shell removed, and feed them at
                                                  night.

                                                  Test the water daily, and continue the use of Amquel, according to
                                                  directions, as needed. Amquel will turn the ammonia into a non-toxic form
                                                  for the fish, and the bacteria will still be able to utilize it to start to
                                                  establish the cycle. Be aware that Amquel will cause Nessler reagent based
                                                  test kits to give a false reading (the kits will show hues of amber and
                                                  yellow to indicate the presence of ammonia), I saw no such indication of
                                                  the same for Amquel Plus (a product I have not used), but I would presume
                                                  the same to be true. Use an ammonia test kit that uses salicylate-type
                                                  reagents. It looks like Amquel Plus may be more beneficial in this case than
                                                  the straight Amquel, since the Plus also helps with nitrites and nitrates,
                                                  the intermediate and final products of the ammonia cycle. If you need more
                                                  information about the  Amquel products, let me know as I know someone who is
                                                  really up to snuff on them, and will write him for more information. Test
                                                  the water daily to determine how the cycle is going. The ammonia should
                                                  spike, and level off, then it should start to fall. When this happens, the
                                                  nitrites will start to spike, level off, then fall, and the nitrates will
                                                  start to rise. When the ammonia and nitrites are not detectable, then you
                                                  have cycled the tank.

                                                  The fish at the surface may be more an indication of stress than a real need
                                                  for oxygen. As long as you are turning the water over 4-6 times per hour
                                                  with your filtration, you should be all set in the gaseous exchange that
                                                  occurs in the aquarium.

                                                  I'd stop the fungus treatment right away. First, a bubble on the lip is
                                                  probably not fungus. It may be more that the fish is injured and will
                                                  probably recover on its own. Probably rammed the side of the tank or
                                                  something. Never, ever treat for something you don't know what it is. If you
                                                  have to guess, then don't treat. There are actually very few fish diseases
                                                  and parasite we can successfully treat with medication--far less than most
                                                  would have you believe.

                                                  Do a 10% water change every day, and try to gather some of the stuff you
                                                  have floating in the tank or sitting in/on the substrate as you remove the
                                                  water. Prior to adding new water, dose the tank with the requisite dose of
                                                  Amquel Plus. Now is not the time to play with any of the other water
                                                  parameters like hardness or pH.

                                                  You don't mention the temperature of the tank. I don't know what fish you
                                                  have in it. During this period, I'd keep the temperature down on the low end
                                                  for the fish. This will cause their metabolism to slow and help with your
                                                  cycle, as they will be contributing less waste to the process. I also
                                                  noticed you have no live plants in the photo in your post. Keep the lights
                                                  on the tank off, and just use ambient light as much as possible to view the
                                                  fish. This will also help slow them down. Don't be afraid to turn on your
                                                  tank lights if you need to, just be sure to turn them off when you are done.

                                                  Finally, cross your fingers and pray.

                                                  \\Steve//
                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@...]
                                                  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 9:35 AM
                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Rescued a tank, have lots of questions


                                                  I rescued a freshwater tank with 15 fish.  It was left without electricity
                                                  in the house, so no pumps, filters, or heat, for 48 hours before I found
                                                  them.
                                                  I’ve since put them in a 55 gal tank that was sitting unused for years in
                                                  this homes kitchen.  Very dirty!


                                                  Some of the problems I’m seeing are:
                                                  The fish will ALL go to the top of the water, the above pic is of this, as
                                                  if they trying to breathe.  (I’ve changed the water, ½ of it, and added some
                                                  more air and this has helped with that somewhat.)  But they still go to the
                                                  top periodically and it’s all of them at once which worries me.

                                                  The 3 schooling fish have bubble looking things on their bottom lips.  (I
                                                  treated with Juungle Tank buddies fungus treatment last night but I’m not
                                                  positive that this is a fungus.)

                                                  I’m seeing white clouds with red middles floating around the tank.  I was
                                                  told this might be fungus growing on old food.  (I’m hoping the fungus
                                                  treatment will wipe that out.)

                                                  I’ve had the water tested and it was high in ammonia.  (I’ve treated with
                                                  Amquel + and have been told to get regular Amquel or Hikari Conditioner.  I
                                                  haven’t found either yet but am going this morning to try again.)

                                                  There are two large placostumus.  One is 14” and the other is just 7”.  They
                                                  are starving!  There is no algae in this tank yet is there?  (They are being
                                                  given lots of veggie pellets and other bottom dweller discs as well as
                                                  cucumber spears at night but is this enough?)

                                                  OK, so if you see something I am not doing that should be done, I would
                                                  greatly appreciate knowing this.  I have never owned a tank and this was not
                                                  by choice.  I either took them or let them die and letting them die wasn’t
                                                  an option.  The tank has an undergravel filtration which will be replaced
                                                  with a new tank and filter next week.  But not until next week, and I want
                                                  to make sure these guys are taken care of until then.
                                                  Only one of the pump power heads has a tube going to the filter and it is
                                                  covered in old algae.  No telling what the inside looks like either.  The
                                                  other power head is new and is serving to aerate the tank.  It has no tube
                                                  (it was split).

                                                  I’ve lost one fire mouth (he was left in the abandoned tank for almost
                                                  another full 24 hours after I got the others.  I went back the next day and
                                                  saw him then.)  And lost one catfish.  This was just yesterday when they
                                                  were all at the top.  The other catfish was almost dead until I changed a
                                                  lot of the water.  Why did this make such a difference?

                                                  Thanks for any help at all!

                                                  Leslie ~ Native Texan!



                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                  .
                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9030 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
                                                  I'm having to change the water because it has virtually no filtration
                                                  going on. The tank is a mess and I've been told to change the water by
                                                  1/4 to 1/3 daily. (Some have said 10% change is good.)
                                                  It has an ancient undergravel system that doesn’t appear to be working.
                                                  We get the other tank Monday and I'll be posting for help on that once I
                                                  get it moved in.
                                                  Thanks for the stress zyme tip. No one has told me of that.




                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
                                                  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 8:13 PM
                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rescued a tank, have lots of questions


                                                  the tank has to be allowed to cycle, so massive
                                                  frequent water changes will not do anything but
                                                  prolong the problems. if you want the best chance,
                                                  add a dose of stress zyme every other day for the next
                                                  3 weeks. the food it provides to the bacteria will
                                                  make it breed faster, and keeep the fish less
                                                  stressed.
                                                  paul
                                                  --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  > I rescued a freshwater tank with 15 fish. It was
                                                  > left without
                                                  > electricity in the house, so no pumps, filters, or
                                                  > heat, for 48 hours
                                                  > before I found them.
                                                  > I’ve since put them in a 55 gal tank that was
                                                  > sitting unused for years
                                                  > in this homes kitchen. Very dirty!
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Some of the problems I’m seeing are:
                                                  > The fish will ALL go to the top of the water, the
                                                  > above pic is of this,
                                                  > as if they trying to breathe. (I’ve changed the
                                                  > water, ½ of it, and
                                                  > added some more air and this has helped with that
                                                  > somewhat.) But they
                                                  > still go to the top periodically and it’s all of
                                                  > them at once which
                                                  > worries me.
                                                  >
                                                  > The 3 schooling fish have bubble looking things on
                                                  > their bottom lips.
                                                  > (I treated with Juungle Tank buddies fungus
                                                  > treatment last night but I’m
                                                  > not positive that this is a fungus.)
                                                  >
                                                  > I’m seeing white clouds with red middles floating
                                                  > around the tank. I
                                                  > was told this might be fungus growing on old food.
                                                  > (I’m hoping the
                                                  > fungus treatment will wipe that out.)
                                                  >
                                                  > I’ve had the water tested and it was high in
                                                  > ammonia. (I’ve treated
                                                  > with Amquel + and have been told to get regular
                                                  > Amquel or Hikari
                                                  > Conditioner. I haven’t found either yet but am
                                                  > going this morning to
                                                  > try again.)
                                                  >
                                                  > There are two large placostumus. One is 14” and the
                                                  > other is just 7”.
                                                  > They are starving! There is no algae in this tank
                                                  > yet is there? (They
                                                  > are being given lots of veggie pellets and other
                                                  > bottom dweller discs as
                                                  > well as cucumber spears at night but is this
                                                  > enough?)
                                                  >
                                                  > OK, so if you see something I am not doing that
                                                  > should be done, I would
                                                  > greatly appreciate knowing this. I have never owned
                                                  > a tank and this was
                                                  > not by choice. I either took them or let them die
                                                  > and letting them die
                                                  > wasn’t an option. The tank has an undergravel
                                                  > filtration which will be
                                                  > replaced with a new tank and filter next week. But
                                                  > not until next week,
                                                  > and I want to make sure these guys are taken care of
                                                  > until then.
                                                  > Only one of the pump power heads has a tube going to
                                                  > the filter and it
                                                  > is covered in old algae. No telling what the inside
                                                  > looks like either.
                                                  > The other power head is new and is serving to aerate
                                                  > the tank. It has
                                                  > no tube (it was split).
                                                  >
                                                  > I’ve lost one fire mouth (he was left in the
                                                  > abandoned tank for almost
                                                  > another full 24 hours after I got the others. I
                                                  > went back the next day
                                                  > and saw him then.) And lost one catfish. This was
                                                  > just yesterday when
                                                  > they were all at the top. The other catfish was
                                                  > almost dead until I
                                                  > changed a lot of the water. Why did this make such
                                                  > a difference?
                                                  >
                                                  > Thanks for any help at all!
                                                  >
                                                  > Leslie ~ Native Texan!
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >



                                                  __________________________________
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                                                  Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
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                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                  .
                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important
                                                  to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                  the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                  Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9031 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
                                                      Don't be discouraged by reality.  Reality is, you could lose every one of those fish.  Not because of something you haven't done, but just because you don't have any experience.  Most fish keepers lose their first fish no matter what they do.  I know I did.
                                                      Don't hope for some chemical that will correct all the problems these fish have.  Floating food with fungus should be removed mechanically with a filter, not a chemical.  You may not have the let them die attitude, but too much work on the tank may be as deadly as too much.  Don't rely on chemicals to remove ammonia.  Do water changes to bring ammonia down to about .25 ppm.  That is low enough to keep the bacteria growing and still not be deadly.  This is only a temporary thing to do while waiting for the new tank.  It sounds like you have done a great job of feeding those plecos.  Most people don't give them veggies, and some don't give them algae chips.  Good job there. 
                                                      When you move the fish to a new tank, take all of the gravel you can to the new tank.  This will be essential to keeping these fish alive.  Any progress you make in the next week will be ended without that gravel.  Don't worry about the bio spira until you get that 75 gallon set up.  You are going to need 2 or 3 5 gallon buckets, probably 3.  Get those from your local w-mart in the car washing area.  Move the fish to a bucket of tank water.  Then move about 20-30 gallons of the 55 gallon water to the 75 gallon.  After that, use the water in the 55 gallon to wash the gravel by stirring the gravel, then siphon the water and junk out of the tank.  The key is to clean the gravel a little, but not too much.  Move the gravel to the new tank, fill the new tank with water that is close to room temperature.  This is going to take a while.  It would be best to have a hose that attaches to a sink faucet so you can use a mix of warm and cold water.  Get the filter and heater going for a while.  When the temperature gets to room temp., add the fish.  Acclimate the fish by draining the buckets by half and filling them with the new tank's water, then empty and fill again, then move the fish to the new tank.  Then refill the tank.  That's how I would do it.  Somebody else might have a better idea.
                                                      And one more time, when people tell you to expect casualties, don't be discouraged.  It is part of fish keeping that can't be stopped, no matter how hard you try.  For the fish you haven't identified yet, do a google image search for "bala shark" and "black tetra".
                                                   
                                                  Good luck.
                                                  Patrick, the American Fish Guy
                                                   
                                                  Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
                                                  About my tanks:  
                                                  29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
                                                  -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
                                                  -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                  -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
                                                  10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
                                                  -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
                                                  -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
                                                  -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
                                                  Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9032 From: mrfabus Date: 3/10/2005
                                                  Subject: need info please help
                                                  Hello group I have 3 snowflake eels in a 90 gallon tank I was
                                                  looking for some new idea and what to feed them I already have been
                                                  giving them guppies. I also have 3 gar pike with them . I was
                                                  thinking frozen baby shrimp but Im un sure please any help would be
                                                  nice

                                                  thank you
                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9033 From: shillingcat1@juno.com Date: 3/11/2005
                                                  Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
                                                  Hi there
                                                  Good luck with your fish, I read that you used Jungle Tank Buddies treatment. Thats a good joice. I dont use anything but this brand of treatments for my fish tanks they are the best. Ive had problems with algae and other things, and Ive tried all different brands , and finally I found this brand and would not use anything else. Their web site is www.junglelabs.com they have a lot of information there. My main thing is algae and their tablets for this are great, so Im sure everything else is also good.
                                                  Again good luck and dont give up
                                                  Cathy In PA
                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9034 From: m senter Date: 3/11/2005
                                                  Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
                                                  Attachments :
                                                    what is a biowheel and how do i know if i have one?  my filter is an aqua - tech
                                                     
                                                    why are my white mollies gills turning black??? my gold fish did this for a while and we changed food?   My fish food is  Tetramin and tetracolor  i switch  between them.  How do i fix this?
                                                     
                                                    melissa
                                                     
                                                     
                                                     
                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                     
                                                    Date: 03/09/05 04:21:23
                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
                                                     
                                                    with no other filter mentioned i assum that your
                                                    "30-60" filter has a bio wheel, if not i would not be
                                                    surprised if you water quality drops soon
                                                    --- m senter <msenter@indy.rr.com> wrote:

                                                    > i don't have plants?  what is bio wheel?  we are
                                                    > using sphinen hose. to
                                                    > clean tank. we have a very clean tank i can't stand
                                                    > dirty tanks. so i clean
                                                    > about every 6 to 10 weeks at most because of my big
                                                    > goldfish and plecos.
                                                    >
                                                    > melissa

                                                    > -------Original Message-------

                                                    > From: paul helms
                                                    > Date: 03/09/05 01:35:27
                                                    > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filtration - How many
                                                    > gallons/hour?

                                                    > in my persoanl and professional opinion you should
                                                    > shoot for 2x the filtration taht is recommended on
                                                    > the
                                                    > box, so i would say no.  the oxygen added by the
                                                    > back
                                                    > filter is suffiecient to not need air stones, but
                                                    > just
                                                    > so you know, the goldfish will eat plants.  if they
                                                    > are staying, plants may not be doable.  i would use
                                                    > an
                                                    > under gravel filter with 2 powerheads in at least
                                                    > part
                                                    > of the tank if i were you.  many people belive that
                                                    > the biowheel is a replacement, but when you do the
                                                    > surface area calculations for bacterial growth you
                                                    > will find that the biowheel has about 1/3 of what
                                                    > the
                                                    > ugf uses.  the ugf uses the lxw of your tank for its
                                                    > base area, and when water is pulled throughthe
                                                    > gravel
                                                    > it also uses the surface area of all unhindered
                                                    > gravel.  i am not saying that they are bad, in fact
                                                    > they are a great addition that really makes the tank
                                                    > more stable.  if you desire plants, you can use the
                                                    > ugf in part of the tank.  for instance use it in the
                                                    > middle, plant out the center and do rock work in teh
                                                    > middle.
                                                    > --- m senter <msenter@indy.rr.com> wrote:
                                                    > > paul,
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I have 55 gal. tank and have 30-60 filter and
                                                    > about
                                                    > > 30 -35 small mollies,
                                                    > > pladdies, and swords and one big fancy tail
                                                    > goldfish
                                                    > > and a big pleco in it.
                                                    > > yes i know goldfish and mollies don't normally go
                                                    > > together but the lady we
                                                    > > got the tank from had him with them and he was
                                                    > fine
                                                    > > so we have added to them
                                                    > > and is doing fine.  but what i would like to know
                                                    > is
                                                    > > if the filter is big
                                                    > > enough for the tank, and i do not have air being
                                                    > > pumped into it do i need
                                                    > > another filter on it.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > melissa
                                                    > >
                                                    > > -------Original Message-------
                                                    > >
                                                    > > From: paul helms
                                                    > > Date: 03/09/05 01:12:15
                                                    > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filtration - How many
                                                    > > gallons/hour?
                                                    > >
                                                    > > four times is ok.....6 is much better.  i shoot
                                                    > for
                                                    > > 10
                                                    > > times.  the more poplulated your tank is, the more
                                                    > > filtration it requires.  if you are sticking to a
                                                    > > small population, 4 ties is fine.  the number of
                                                    > > times/ hour is irrelevant to plants unless the
                                                    > > current
                                                    > > is blowing directly on them.
                                                    > > --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Here's another question….I wish I could take you
                                                    > > all
                                                    > > > out for dinner to
                                                    > > > pay you back for all your help.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > I'm sold on the Marienland Emperor Bio-Wheel
                                                    > > filter
                                                    > > > system. The
                                                    > > > Bio-Wheel makes good sense (I could be swayed if
                                                    > > > there is good
                                                    > > > reason). I have two questions:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > I've read that the tank volume should be
                                                    > filtered
                                                    > > > four times an hour,
                                                    > > > is this true? If it is I'm thinking of getting
                                                    > tow
                                                    > > > filters that handle
                                                    > > > 125gl/hr each, this gets me close to 4 times an
                                                    > > hour
                                                    > > > for my 55 gal
                                                    > > > tank. I've read that if you have plants too much
                                                    > > > filtration can remove
                                                    > > > nutrients. The other alternative is to got below
                                                    > 4
                                                    > > > times an hour or to
                                                    > > > move up to six times an hour….too much in my
                                                    > > limited
                                                    > > > opinion.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > My second question has to do with aeration.
                                                    > These
                                                    > > > filter are the type
                                                    > > > that `splash' the water back into the tank. Is
                                                    > > this
                                                    > > > good enough for
                                                    > > > sufficient aeration or should I also get an air
                                                    > > pump
                                                    > > > and stone (too
                                                    > > > bad my old home brewing stone is made of metal)
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Thanks yet again for your help,
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Eric
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > __________________________________
                                                    > > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                                                    > > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
                                                    > > http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                    > when
                                                    > > replying, thanks
                                                    > > ..
                                                    > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                    > > that is not important to
                                                    > > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                    > original
                                                    > > message modify the
                                                    > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                    > > subject)" <-,  we Thank You
                                                    > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >




                                                    > __________________________________
                                                    > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                                                    > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
                                                    > http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/


                                                    > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

                                                    > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                    > replying, thanks
                                                    > ..
                                                    > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                    > that is not important to
                                                    > the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                    > message modify the
                                                    > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                    > subject)" <-,  we Thank You
                                                    > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links




                                                    >
                                                    === message truncated ===



                                                         
                                                               
                                                    __________________________________
                                                    Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                                                    Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
                                                    http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/


                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                    .
                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                     
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9035 From: paul helms Date: 3/11/2005
                                                    Subject: Re: Filtration - How many gallons/hour?
                                                    Attachments :
                                                      you would know if you had one. you don't. it is a
                                                      paddle wheel about 4 inches around that rotates on the
                                                      front of the filter. it is the biologic portion.
                                                      --- m senter <msenter@...> wrote:

                                                      > what is a biowheel and how do i know if i have one?
                                                      > my filter is an aqua -
                                                      > tech
                                                      >
                                                      > why are my white mollies gills turning black??? my
                                                      > gold fish did this for a
                                                      > while and we changed food? My fish food is
                                                      > Tetramin and tetracolor i
                                                      > switch between them. How do i fix this?
                                                      >
                                                      > melissa
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > -------Original Message-------
                                                      >
                                                      > From: paul helms
                                                      > Date: 03/09/05 04:21:23
                                                      > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filtration - How many
                                                      > gallons/hour?
                                                      >
                                                      > with no other filter mentioned i assum that your
                                                      > "30-60" filter has a bio wheel, if not i would not
                                                      > be
                                                      > surprised if you water quality drops soon
                                                      > --- m senter <msenter@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > > i don't have plants? what is bio wheel? we are
                                                      > > using sphinen hose. to
                                                      > > clean tank. we have a very clean tank i can't
                                                      > stand
                                                      > > dirty tanks. so i clean
                                                      > > about every 6 to 10 weeks at most because of my
                                                      > big
                                                      > > goldfish and plecos.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > melissa
                                                      > >
                                                      > > -------Original Message-------
                                                      > >
                                                      > > From: paul helms
                                                      > > Date: 03/09/05 01:35:27
                                                      > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filtration - How many
                                                      > > gallons/hour?
                                                      > >
                                                      > > in my persoanl and professional opinion you should
                                                      > > shoot for 2x the filtration taht is recommended on
                                                      > > the
                                                      > > box, so i would say no. the oxygen added by the
                                                      > > back
                                                      > > filter is suffiecient to not need air stones, but
                                                      > > just
                                                      > > so you know, the goldfish will eat plants. if
                                                      > they
                                                      > > are staying, plants may not be doable. i would
                                                      > use
                                                      > > an
                                                      > > under gravel filter with 2 powerheads in at least
                                                      > > part
                                                      > > of the tank if i were you. many people belive
                                                      > that
                                                      > > the biowheel is a replacement, but when you do the
                                                      > > surface area calculations for bacterial growth you
                                                      > > will find that the biowheel has about 1/3 of what
                                                      > > the
                                                      > > ugf uses. the ugf uses the lxw of your tank for
                                                      > its
                                                      > > base area, and when water is pulled throughthe
                                                      > > gravel
                                                      > > it also uses the surface area of all unhindered
                                                      > > gravel. i am not saying that they are bad, in
                                                      > fact
                                                      > > they are a great addition that really makes the
                                                      > tank
                                                      > > more stable. if you desire plants, you can use
                                                      > the
                                                      > > ugf in part of the tank. for instance use it in
                                                      > the
                                                      > > middle, plant out the center and do rock work in
                                                      > teh
                                                      > > middle.
                                                      > > --- m senter <msenter@...> wrote:
                                                      > > > paul,
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > I have 55 gal. tank and have 30-60 filter and
                                                      > > about
                                                      > > > 30 -35 small mollies,
                                                      > > > pladdies, and swords and one big fancy tail
                                                      > > goldfish
                                                      > > > and a big pleco in it.
                                                      > > > yes i know goldfish and mollies don't normally
                                                      > go
                                                      > > > together but the lady we
                                                      > > > got the tank from had him with them and he was
                                                      > > fine
                                                      > > > so we have added to them
                                                      > > > and is doing fine. but what i would like to
                                                      > know
                                                      > > is
                                                      > > > if the filter is big
                                                      > > > enough for the tank, and i do not have air being
                                                      > > > pumped into it do i need
                                                      > > > another filter on it.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > melissa
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > -------Original Message-------
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > From: paul helms
                                                      > > > Date: 03/09/05 01:12:15
                                                      > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filtration - How many
                                                      > > > gallons/hour?
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > four times is ok.....6 is much better. i shoot
                                                      > > for
                                                      > > > 10
                                                      > > > times. the more poplulated your tank is, the
                                                      > more
                                                      > > > filtration it requires. if you are sticking to
                                                      > a
                                                      > > > small population, 4 ties is fine. the number of
                                                      > > > times/ hour is irrelevant to plants unless the
                                                      > > > current
                                                      > > > is blowing directly on them.
                                                      > > > --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Here's another question�.I wish I could take
                                                      > you
                                                      > > > all
                                                      > > > > out for dinner to
                                                      > > > > pay you back for all your help.
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > I'm sold on the Marienland Emperor Bio-Wheel
                                                      > > > filter
                                                      > > > > system. The
                                                      > > > > Bio-Wheel makes good sense (I could be swayed
                                                      > if
                                                      > > > > there is good
                                                      > > > > reason). I have two questions:
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > I've read that the tank volume should be
                                                      > > filtered
                                                      > > > > four times an hour,
                                                      > > > > is this true? If it is I'm thinking of getting
                                                      > > tow
                                                      > > > > filters that handle
                                                      > > > > 125gl/hr each, this gets me close to 4 times
                                                      > an
                                                      > > > hour
                                                      > > > > for my 55 gal
                                                      > > > > tank. I've read that if you have plants too
                                                      > much
                                                      > > > > filtration can remove
                                                      > > > > nutrients. The other alternative is to got
                                                      > below
                                                      > > 4
                                                      > > > > times an hour or to
                                                      > > > > move up to six times an hour�.too much in my
                                                      > > > limited
                                                      > > > > opinion.
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > My second question has to do with aeration.
                                                      > > These
                                                      > > > > filter are the type
                                                      > > > > that `splash' the water back into the tank. Is
                                                      > > > this
                                                      > > > > good enough for
                                                      > > > > sufficient aeration or should I also get an
                                                      > air
                                                      > > > pump
                                                      > > > > and stone (too
                                                      > > > > bad my old home brewing stone is made of
                                                      > metal)
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Thanks yet again for your help,
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Eric
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > __________________________________
                                                      > > > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                                                      > > > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
                                                      > > > http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                      > > when
                                                      > > > replying, thanks
                                                      > > > ..
                                                      >
                                                      === message truncated ===




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                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9036 From: paul helms Date: 3/11/2005
                                                      Subject: Re: need info please help
                                                      frozen silver sides, frozen krill, frozen plankton
                                                      --- mrfabus <mrfabus@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Hello group I have 3 snowflake eels in a 90 gallon
                                                      > tank I was
                                                      > looking for some new idea and what to feed them I
                                                      > already have been
                                                      > giving them guppies. I also have 3 gar pike with
                                                      > them . I was
                                                      > thinking frozen baby shrimp but Im un sure please
                                                      > any help would be
                                                      > nice
                                                      >
                                                      > thank you
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >




                                                      __________________________________
                                                      Do you Yahoo!?
                                                      Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
                                                      http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9037 From: Steve Date: 3/11/2005
                                                      Subject: FW: Monday Mar 14th!!! Mark Denaro - "The Planted Aquarium"
                                                      Message
                                                      If you live in New Jersey, this may be of interest to you.
                                                       
                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                      Subject: Monday Mar 14th!!! Mark Denaro - "The Planted Aquarium"

                                                      Join us Monday, Mar 14th 8:00pm

                                                      JSAS Welcomes

                                                      Mark Denaro

                                                      "The Planted Aquarium"

                                                      Do you have a green thumb when it comes to growing aquarium plants? Well, I know I don't. Java moss and Java fern are the only plants I manage to keep green for any length of time. This month we'll learn all about the planted aquarium from a master aquarist, breeder and aquatic plant expert.  Join us and learn from Mark Denaro how to set up and maintain plants in your aquarium. Turn that brown thumb green and impress your friends and relatives with a lush green aquarium..... and I don't mean algae.  ;-))

                                                       

                                                      Mark Denaro has been keeping freshwater aquariums since 1970 and marine aquariums since 1976.  He has propagated over 100 species of freshwater fish and a wide array of freshwater plants.  Mark has propagated over 20 species of marine invertebrates and had 6 species of marine fish spawn in his tanks. 

                                                       

                                                      Mark is a past president of the Indianapolis Aquarium Society, and is a well-known speaker and judge.  He has lectured to over 30 aquarium societies in 7 states and has spoken at several regional and national conventions.

                                                       

                                                      Mark has 20 years of experience working in the pet industry.  During that time, he has operated a retail aquarium shop, a marine wholesale company and several aquarium maintenance companies.  He has also managed both independent and chain pet stores and served as warehouse manager and sales manager for a tropical fish importer/wholesaler.  Mark currently operates Anubias Design, an aquarium/terrarium design, installation and maintenance company serving the greater Philadelphia area. 

                                                      Join us and learn how to successfully maintain a planted aquarium..

                                                       Location: Knights of Columbus Hall
                                                      70 E. Main St. in Freehold, NJ

                                                      For more info and directions visit our web site at:

                                                      http://www.jerseyshoreas.org/

                                                       

                                                      2005 Speaker Schedule!!

                                                      Meetings are the 2nd Monday of each month!!

                                                      Jan 10th - Luis Morales - Fish Farms, Aquarium Stores and Collecting Around the World
                                                      Feb 14th  - Dean Majorino - Making Paste Food

                                                      Mar  14th - Mark Denaro - Aquatic Plants
                                                      Apr  14th  - Meeting to be held at Jenkinsons Aquarium - No Speaker
                                                      May 9th   - Sal Silvestri - Apistogrammas - Species, Care and Breeding
                                                      Jun 13th    - TBD
                                                      Jul 11th   - TBD
                                                      Aug          - "No Meeting"

                                                      Sep 12th   - TBD
                                                      Oct  10th  - TBD

                                                      Nov  14th - Bowl Show
                                                      Dec  12th  - JSAS Holiday Party

                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9038 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/11/2005
                                                      Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
                                                      What brand and size of tank? I'll look it up and get back to you.

                                                      For me, a store kit is not an option, as my 220 has a 1.5" drain and two
                                                      1" returns.


                                                      paul helms said:
                                                      >
                                                      > yes i have used it, they are usually offered with any
                                                      > quality tank.
                                                      > --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                      >> paul helms said:
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > the tank itself will come with the overflow box
                                                      >> > siliconed in place, but there is an over flow kit
                                                      >> > avaialble as well. the stand pipe for the down
                                                      >> tube
                                                      >> > has a round insert that has an air pocket, so it
                                                      >> raise
                                                      >> > when water is present and lowers when it is not.
                                                      >> this
                                                      >> > keeps you from having the glory hole sound at low
                                                      >> > levels.
                                                      >> Have you actually used one of these? I don't think
                                                      >> it works the way
                                                      >> you're describing, or I'm not understanding you.
                                                      >> The only way to reduce
                                                      >> the noise of an open drain is to have the drain
                                                      >> opening sealed off from
                                                      >> the outside air. This means that you could put it
                                                      >> under a cup or bell
                                                      >> that has its' rim submerged. The drain won't make
                                                      >> less noise, but the
                                                      >> noise will not escape into the room, so effectively,
                                                      >> it is silenced.
                                                      >>
                                                      >> The problem is that this state is not stable. The
                                                      >> drain will quickly
                                                      >> start to siphon and will rapidly drain the tank
                                                      >> until the water level
                                                      >> drops enough that the rim of the bell breaks the
                                                      >> surface and lets air in.
                                                      >> At this point, the air breaks the siphon and you get
                                                      >> a loud slurp.
                                                      >>
                                                      >> The solution is to add air into the bell at a rate
                                                      >> high enough to keep the
                                                      >> siphon from forming, through a hole small enough to
                                                      >> keep the sound of the
                                                      >> drain from radiating out. Thus, a small hole at the
                                                      >> top of the bell
                                                      >> (above the waterline will let air in and a little
                                                      >> sound out. Stick 6" of
                                                      >> airline tubing in there and the noise will be
                                                      >> minimal as the tubing will
                                                      >> dampen resonation.
                                                      >>
                                                      >> Here is a link to Richard Durso's standpipe design.
                                                      >> Total cost: less than
                                                      >> $10. http://www.dursostandpipes.com/
                                                      >>
                                                      >> Here is Ken Stockman's improvement on the design.
                                                      >> It is more compact and
                                                      >> will fit in a smaller overflow box. It also costs
                                                      >> less than $10.
                                                      >>
                                                      > http://www.rl180reef.com/pages/standpipe/standpipe-ken_stockman.htm
                                                      >>
                                                      >> Here is a further refinement called the Hofer Gargle
                                                      >> Buster. It costs
                                                      >> less than $5 and works better than the other two,
                                                      >> but works best in a box.
                                                      >> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/domitron2/HGB/HGB.html
                                                      >>
                                                      >> As far as the return, a submerged spraybar is
                                                      >> silent, unobtrusive and only
                                                      >> $1 in parts.
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >> > the float also keeps anything other than
                                                      >> > water going down the pipe. it also comes with the
                                                      >> > return pipe with a flexible hard plastic return
                                                      >> that
                                                      >> > can be positioned to control current. included as
                                                      >> > well are silicone, 2 bulkheads, and the flex line
                                                      >> to
                                                      >> > connect to the downtube so that it is quieter.
                                                      >> all
                                                      >> > for about 40.00, all perfect size, no guess work.
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > __________________________________
                                                      > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                      > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                      > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                      > .
                                                      > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                      > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                      > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                      > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9039 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/11/2005
                                                      Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
                                                      Patrick, American Fish Guy said:
                                                      > You are
                                                      > going to need 2 or 3 5 gallon buckets, probably 3. Get those from your
                                                      > local w-mart in the car washing area.
                                                      Rinse the buckets out but do not use soap.


                                                      > Move the fish to a bucket of tank
                                                      > water. Then move about 20-30 gallons of the 55 gallon water to the 75
                                                      > gallon. After that, use the water in the 55 gallon to wash the gravel by
                                                      > stirring the gravel, then siphon the water and junk out of the tank. The
                                                      > key is to clean the gravel a little, but not too much. Move the gravel to
                                                      > the new tank, fill the new tank with water that is close to room
                                                      > temperature
                                                      Add dechlorinator as you do this. The chlorine (or chloramine) in your
                                                      tapwater is designed to kill bacteria in the water system. It also kills
                                                      the bacteria that you are trying to grow in the tank.

                                                      > This is going to take a while. It would be best to have a hose that
                                                      > attaches to a sink faucet so you can use a mix of warm and cold water.
                                                      A very useful product is a "Python". It attaches to your sink and has a
                                                      long hose and a plastic tube (a "gravel vaccuum"). When you perform a
                                                      waterchange, you put it on "suck" and run the tip of the gravel vaccuum
                                                      through the gravel. It sucks out the detritus and not the gravel. When
                                                      you've emptied enough water, flip it to "fill" and it pumps water back
                                                      into the tank. Very useful and usually less than $20.

                                                      > For the fish you haven't identified yet, do a google
                                                      > image search for "bala shark" and "black tetra".
                                                      The two fish that are hybrids sound suspiciously like "Blood Parrots"
                                                      http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.elmersaquarium.com/image_fish/01cichlid_bloodparrot3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.elmersaquarium.com/10cichlid_bloodparrot.htm&h=480&w=640&sz=21&tbnid=9opIyOktuOAJ:&tbnh=101&tbnw=135&start=8&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dblood%2Bparrot%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG
                                                      They come in a variety of colors.
                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9040 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/11/2005
                                                      Subject: Rescued a tank * PICS
                                                      Attachments :

                                                        The mouth is the same but the head shapes are not like those pictured in google.  The smaller of the two is acting funny this morning.  He is letting himself float nose down to the gravel and just resting when he does go somewhere else.  The other of these is about an inch larger and “bullies” the smaller one.  Could this be stressful?  I don’t want to lose either, especially due to one being mean.

                                                        This was taken two minutes ago:

                                                        Below:  Does anyone know what the striped fish are?

                                                        Pic Below:  Top right little guy ate a fish last night.  It was as long as he is.  I don’t know what either one of these are.

                                                         

                                                        Any idea what these striped guys are?

                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9041 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/11/2005
                                                        Subject: Dying fish * Pic
                                                        Attachments :

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                          From: Dane & Leslie
                                                          Moore [mailto:amjmail@centurytel.net]
                                                          Sent:
                                                          Friday, March 11, 2005 9:19 AM
                                                          To: 'naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com'
                                                          Subject: Dying fish * Pic

                                                           

                                                          Me again,

                                                          Here is Moose.  He looks next to dead.  Is there anything I can do without knowing what is wrong? 

                                                           

                                                          Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9042 From: eggybumstu Date: 3/11/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Freshwater Puffer Fish ?????
                                                          These fish are great little characters and a welcome addition to any
                                                          tank assuming you get friendly ones as it seems you have. There is
                                                          some controversy over the aggression of puffer fish and I feel they
                                                          are unfortunately stereotyped. It has been suggested that 1 in 10
                                                          puffers are psychotic, how this was measured I'm not sure. Maybe
                                                          the fish did a personality survey!!!! Some can be peaceful and
                                                          others will fall in between. Certain puffer species will have
                                                          certain agression level traits but lets face it, each fish is
                                                          different so to say all puffers are aggressive is a bit unfair.
                                                          Many retailers warn before purchase of this possibilty and generally
                                                          will not accept the fish back if its a bit of a terror. This should
                                                          be a consideration when purchasing these fish. I have a Mbu puffer
                                                          in my 5ft com tank that is completely docile and even lets the
                                                          mollies nibble the mussels he eats. If you look this species up
                                                          they are apparantly very aggressive and don't mix well with other
                                                          fish.

                                                          I' sure there are plenty of people who have bought a so called
                                                          peaceful fish and its terrorised their other fish.

                                                          So I say enjoy your freindly puffers and if anyone is thinking about
                                                          these fantastic characters don't be put off by their undeserved
                                                          reputation. They decimate snails and provide hours of fun watching
                                                          their inquisitive nature. I love em so ner!!!

                                                          Cheers Stu :D

                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Venus" <ltldrgn13@c...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > Does anyone know much about the Freshwater Puffer fish?? My
                                                          husband
                                                          > brought 2 home from the pet store a couple of weeks ago... They
                                                          are
                                                          > the cutest little guys. They were labeled as "Freshwater Dwarf
                                                          Puffer
                                                          > Fish".. Sorry I don't have a photo but it is a puffer fish that
                                                          has
                                                          > leopard print… if that helps?? The store told him they get about 3-
                                                          4
                                                          > inches big, are aggressive fish and love to hide in caves.
                                                          >
                                                          > Well here is what I have found out though research online.. They
                                                          only
                                                          > get about 1 inch big, are very aggressive fish (although we
                                                          haven't
                                                          > seen this behavior yet) and never hide.. The little guys swim
                                                          around
                                                          > looking at the rock and plants all day and night and LOVE to swim
                                                          up
                                                          > to the glass when someone is by the fish tank.. They love to eat
                                                          the
                                                          > flake food and frozen blood worms and brine shrimp.
                                                          >
                                                          > Has anyone had any or know anything about them?? Advise, comments,
                                                          > thoughts, suggests, etc would be great.
                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9043 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/11/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS
                                                          Picture 1: Blood parrots.
                                                          Picture 2: I can't tell what the striped ones are.  Possibly a giant danio or blue danio, not sure.
                                                          Picture 3: Serpae tetra on left and Black Skirt Tetra on the right.
                                                              I have trouble believing a black skirt could eat a fish as long as it is.  They may pick at a living fish or eat a dead fish one bite at a time, but I really don't think they can fit a whole fish into their mouth.  At least mine have never tried to eat the much smaller neons.  When you get that new tank, you will probably need to clean up the old 55 gallon and get new equipment for it so you can separate the bullies from the peaceful fish.
                                                           
                                                          Patrick, the American Fish Guy
                                                           
                                                          Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
                                                          About my tanks:  
                                                          29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
                                                          -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
                                                          -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                          -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
                                                          10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
                                                          -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
                                                          -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
                                                          -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
                                                          Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9044 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/11/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Snowflake eels
                                                          I think frozen baby shrimp might be too small I'd go for the jumbo shrimp,black worms, silversides and any smaller fish. problem with adding Live foods is that the Gar and the eels will compete for live food and might get into a quarrel. Your gars might decide to munch on your eels so becareful.

                                                          A little independant research should provide a lot of info on these snakes of the aquarium..  Do a word search for :
                                                          Gymnothorax tile

















                                                          In a message dated 3/11/2005 2:47:33 AM US Eastern Standard Time, mrfabus@... writes:


                                                          Hello group I have 3 snowflake eels in a 90 gallon tank I was
                                                          looking for some new idea and what to feed them I already have been
                                                          giving them guppies. I also have 3 gar pike with them . I was
                                                          thinking frozen baby shrimp but Im un sure please any help would be
                                                          nice

                                                          thank you


                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9045 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/11/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Dying fish * Pic
                                                          Feed every 2 days, lower temperature to lower 70's
                                                          ( slowly ) limit light levels.

                                                          waterchanges, waterchanges waterchanges....
                                                          do 10% waterchanges every 12 -24 hrs. Hopefully this will keep down the ammonia levels, but still proivide enough for beneficial bacteria growth.
                                                          make sure to use a de-chlorinator  if you are using city  Tap water, as the chlorine will do damage to good bacteria growth.

                                                          fish looks like a blood parrot..I also see a some kind of Barb, in the other pics and maybe Australian rainbowfish?    The Barbs and  Rainbow fish would be dither fish for the parrots to help keep down aggression.


                                                          In a message dated 3/11/2005 10:25:11 AM US Eastern Standard Time, amjmail@... writes:


                                                          Me again,

                                                          Here is Moose.  He looks next to dead.  Is there anything I can do without knowing what is wrong? 



                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9046 From: paul helms Date: 3/11/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS
                                                          i have missed some of the post/questions here, but i
                                                          see that you have 2 blood parrots, and another cichlid
                                                          in there. it is a bit dim, but it lloks like either a
                                                          fire mouth, managuenses, or similar, and maye pangasus
                                                          cats?
                                                          --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...>
                                                          wrote:
                                                          > The mouth is the same but the head shapes are not
                                                          > like those pictured in
                                                          > google. The smaller of the two is acting funny this
                                                          > morning. He is
                                                          > letting himself float nose down to the gravel and
                                                          > just resting when he
                                                          > does go somewhere else. The other of these is about
                                                          > an inch larger and
                                                          > "bullies" the smaller one. Could this be stressful?
                                                          > I don't want to
                                                          > lose either, especially due to one being mean.
                                                          > This was taken two minutes ago:
                                                          >
                                                          > Below: Does anyone know what the striped fish are?
                                                          >
                                                          > Pic Below: Top right little guy ate a fish last
                                                          > night. It was as long
                                                          > as he is. I don't know what either one of these
                                                          > are.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Any idea what these striped guys are?
                                                          >



                                                          __________________________________
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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9047 From: paul helms Date: 3/11/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
                                                          all glasss, oceanic, tru vu, etc. all glass has the
                                                          best one. most tank over 150 will have dual
                                                          overflows. my 180 has dual overlfows with a single
                                                          return that is t'd at the top.
                                                          --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                          > What brand and size of tank? I'll look it up and
                                                          > get back to you.
                                                          >
                                                          > For me, a store kit is not an option, as my 220 has
                                                          > a 1.5" drain and two
                                                          > 1" returns.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > paul helms said:
                                                          > >
                                                          > > yes i have used it, they are usually offered with
                                                          > any
                                                          > > quality tank.
                                                          > > --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                          > >> paul helms said:
                                                          > >> >
                                                          > >> > the tank itself will come with the overflow box
                                                          > >> > siliconed in place, but there is an over flow
                                                          > kit
                                                          > >> > avaialble as well. the stand pipe for the down
                                                          > >> tube
                                                          > >> > has a round insert that has an air pocket, so
                                                          > it
                                                          > >> raise
                                                          > >> > when water is present and lowers when it is
                                                          > not.
                                                          > >> this
                                                          > >> > keeps you from having the glory hole sound at
                                                          > low
                                                          > >> > levels.
                                                          > >> Have you actually used one of these? I don't
                                                          > think
                                                          > >> it works the way
                                                          > >> you're describing, or I'm not understanding you.
                                                          > >> The only way to reduce
                                                          > >> the noise of an open drain is to have the drain
                                                          > >> opening sealed off from
                                                          > >> the outside air. This means that you could put
                                                          > it
                                                          > >> under a cup or bell
                                                          > >> that has its' rim submerged. The drain won't
                                                          > make
                                                          > >> less noise, but the
                                                          > >> noise will not escape into the room, so
                                                          > effectively,
                                                          > >> it is silenced.
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >> The problem is that this state is not stable.
                                                          > The
                                                          > >> drain will quickly
                                                          > >> start to siphon and will rapidly drain the tank
                                                          > >> until the water level
                                                          > >> drops enough that the rim of the bell breaks the
                                                          > >> surface and lets air in.
                                                          > >> At this point, the air breaks the siphon and you
                                                          > get
                                                          > >> a loud slurp.
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >> The solution is to add air into the bell at a
                                                          > rate
                                                          > >> high enough to keep the
                                                          > >> siphon from forming, through a hole small enough
                                                          > to
                                                          > >> keep the sound of the
                                                          > >> drain from radiating out. Thus, a small hole at
                                                          > the
                                                          > >> top of the bell
                                                          > >> (above the waterline will let air in and a little
                                                          > >> sound out. Stick 6" of
                                                          > >> airline tubing in there and the noise will be
                                                          > >> minimal as the tubing will
                                                          > >> dampen resonation.
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >> Here is a link to Richard Durso's standpipe
                                                          > design.
                                                          > >> Total cost: less than
                                                          > >> $10. http://www.dursostandpipes.com/
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >> Here is Ken Stockman's improvement on the design.
                                                          > >> It is more compact and
                                                          > >> will fit in a smaller overflow box. It also
                                                          > costs
                                                          > >> less than $10.
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          http://www.rl180reef.com/pages/standpipe/standpipe-ken_stockman.htm
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >> Here is a further refinement called the Hofer
                                                          > Gargle
                                                          > >> Buster. It costs
                                                          > >> less than $5 and works better than the other two,
                                                          > >> but works best in a box.
                                                          > >>
                                                          > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/domitron2/HGB/HGB.html
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >> As far as the return, a submerged spraybar is
                                                          > >> silent, unobtrusive and only
                                                          > >> $1 in parts.
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >> > the float also keeps anything other than
                                                          > >> > water going down the pipe. it also comes with
                                                          > the
                                                          > >> > return pipe with a flexible hard plastic return
                                                          > >> that
                                                          > >> > can be positioned to control current. included
                                                          > as
                                                          > >> > well are silicone, 2 bulkheads, and the flex
                                                          > line
                                                          > >> to
                                                          > >> > connect to the downtube so that it is quieter.
                                                          > >> all
                                                          > >> > for about 40.00, all perfect size, no guess
                                                          > work.
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > __________________________________
                                                          > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                          > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources
                                                          > site!
                                                          > > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                          > when replying, thanks
                                                          > > .
                                                          > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                          > that is not important to
                                                          > > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                          > original message modify the
                                                          > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                          > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                          > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >



                                                          __________________________________
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                                                          Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                          http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9048 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/11/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS

                                                          Hi Patrick,

                                                          I couldn’t believe it either.  And if I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes, I’d be just like you.  But I did see it and my jaw was to the floor for quite some time in disbelief.  (I bought the feeders for the larger two and the fire mouth, I had no idea these little guys would go after them.  And he went after another one after he sucked up the first!)

                                                           

                                                          I wish I had a smaller tank to move the sickos to.  If we keep with this, I will eventually do that so we will have a spot for them.

                                                          Are you sure these are blood parrots?  The pics I saw of those on google did not look the same.  They were shaped very differently in the mouth and “neck” area.  The fins were different too.

                                                           

                                                          Thanks for helping me identify. 

                                                          Everyone has been SO great here.  I will be posting more as things happen.  Especially once I get this new-ish tank moved in from the other house. 

                                                           

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                          From: Patrick, American Fish Guy [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
                                                          Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 9:46 AM
                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rescued a tank * PICS

                                                           

                                                          Picture 1: Blood parrots.

                                                          Picture 2: I can't tell what the striped ones are.  Possibly a giant danio or blue danio, not sure.

                                                          Picture 3: Serpae tetra on left and Black Skirt Tetra on the right.

                                                              I have trouble believing a black skirt could eat a fish as long as it is.  They may pick at a living fish or eat a dead fish one bite at a time, but I really don't think they can fit a whole fish into their mouth.  At least mine have never tried to eat the much smaller neons.  When you get that new tank, you will probably need to clean up the old 55 gallon and get new equipment for it so you can separate the bullies from the peaceful fish.

                                                           

                                                          Patrick, the American Fish Guy

                                                           

                                                          Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.

                                                          Nitrogen Cycle : http://americanfishguy.tripod.com/nitrogencycle.html

                                                          About my tanks:  

                                                          29 gallon tank (110 Litters).

                                                          -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.

                                                          -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.

                                                          -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.

                                                          10 gallon tank (38 Liters).

                                                          -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.

                                                          -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.

                                                          -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.

                                                           

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                          .
                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9049 From: Julie Date: 3/11/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS
                                                          Attachments :
                                                            The striped ones look like my Austrailian Rainbow fish
                                                            julie
                                                            Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                            I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing.
                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                            Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 8:10 AM
                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] Rescued a tank * PICS

                                                            The mouth is the same but the head shapes are not like those pictured in google.  The smaller of the two is acting funny this morning.  He is letting himself float nose down to the gravel and just resting when he does go somewhere else.  The other of these is about an inch larger and “bullies” the smaller one.  Could this be stressful?  I don’t want to lose either, especially due to one being mean.

                                                            This was taken two minutes ago:

                                                            Below:  Does anyone know what the striped fish are?

                                                             

                                                            Any idea what these striped guys are?



                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9050 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/11/2005
                                                            Subject: Re: Freshwater Puffer Fish ?????
                                                            There's a great site for Dwarf Puffers called dwarfpuffers.com. They also have a forum on that
                                                            site where you can ask all kinds of questions and have them answered by people with a lot of
                                                            knowledge of these interesting fish.

                                                            I'm planning on buying some myself this weekend and that site has already given me tons of info.

                                                            --- Venus <ltldrgn13@...> wrote:

                                                            >
                                                            > Does anyone know much about the Freshwater Puffer fish?? My husband
                                                            > brought 2 home from the pet store a couple of weeks ago... They are
                                                            > the cutest little guys. They were labeled as "Freshwater Dwarf Puffer
                                                            > Fish".. Sorry I don't have a photo but it is a puffer fish that has
                                                            > leopard print� if that helps?? The store told him they get about 3-4
                                                            > inches big, are aggressive fish and love to hide in caves.
                                                            >
                                                            > Well here is what I have found out though research online.. They only
                                                            > get about 1 inch big, are very aggressive fish (although we haven't
                                                            > seen this behavior yet) and never hide.. The little guys swim around
                                                            > looking at the rock and plants all day and night and LOVE to swim up
                                                            > to the glass when someone is by the fish tank.. They love to eat the
                                                            > flake food and frozen blood worms and brine shrimp.
                                                            >
                                                            > Has anyone had any or know anything about them?? Advise, comments,
                                                            > thoughts, suggests, etc would be great.
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >


                                                            Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9051 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/11/2005
                                                            Subject: Fish idenitity? PIC
                                                            Attachments :

                                                              Can someone give me an idea to what these are?  They used to be silver in color but today they are almost blue, kind of blue silver, with dark orange stripes and a unique pattern to each toward their head.  You can see the pattern more on the fish in the back of the other two.

                                                               

                                                              They school and are ALWAYS together.  And VERY fast!

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              Thanks (again) !

                                                               

                                                              ~Leslie

                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9052 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/11/2005
                                                              Subject: Re: Fish idenitity? PIC
                                                              Attachments :

                                                                Danio Devario? Also called Bengal danio

                                                                 

                                                                Nim

                                                                 


                                                                From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@centurytel.net]
                                                                Sent: 11 March 2005 18:19
                                                                To: naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com; AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish idenitity? PIC

                                                                 

                                                                Can someone give me an idea to what these are?  They used to be silver in color but today they are almost blue, kind of blue silver, with dark orange stripes and a unique pattern to each toward their head.  You can see the pattern more on the fish in the back of the other two.

                                                                 

                                                                They school and are ALWAYS together.  And VERY fast!

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                Thanks (again) !

                                                                 

                                                                ~Leslie



                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                .
                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9053 From: messenger_of_the_light Date: 3/11/2005
                                                                Subject: Bloated rosy barb
                                                                Help! I have a 10-gallon that I've had for around a year, and
                                                                suddenly my female rosy barb began, for lack of a bettter term,
                                                                puffing up. Her belly is extremely bloated, so greatly that the
                                                                scales have almost stretched, but she doesn't seem hampered by it.
                                                                Any ideas? I can post pictures.
                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9054 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/11/2005
                                                                Subject: Re: Newbie w/Q
                                                                That's pretty funny. The standpipe for the All-Glass Twin-Flo is a copy
                                                                of the Durso Standpipe. I did a little digging and it appears they
                                                                brought out this version about a year after Durso published his idea.

                                                                I know that another manufacturer (Lifereef) started using Stockman's idea
                                                                until he threatened legal action. Now their website states "The new
                                                                AquaSilencer (by Stockman) is now available for the Lifereef Prefilter
                                                                Siphon Boxes." http://www.lifereef.com/siphon.html

                                                                DIY doesn't mean inferior, but it almost always means cheaper.


                                                                Also, the number of overflows is not determined by gallons. The number of
                                                                drain holes and the number of linear inches of overflow is determined by
                                                                the gallons. Most ultra large (250+) gallon tanks have one enormous
                                                                center overflow. The reason is that this way the overflows aren't visible
                                                                in the sides panels of the aquarium. There is a calculator for
                                                                determining the number of linear inches needed for specific flow rates on
                                                                Reef Central http://reefcentral.com



                                                                paul helms said:
                                                                >
                                                                > all glasss, oceanic, tru vu, etc. all glass has the
                                                                > best one. most tank over 150 will have dual
                                                                > overflows. my 180 has dual overlfows with a single
                                                                > return that is t'd at the top.
                                                                > --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                >> What brand and size of tank? I'll look it up and
                                                                >> get back to you.
                                                                >>
                                                                >> For me, a store kit is not an option, as my 220 has
                                                                >> a 1.5" drain and two
                                                                >> 1" returns.
                                                                >>
                                                                >>
                                                                >> paul helms said:
                                                                >> >
                                                                >> > yes i have used it, they are usually offered with
                                                                >> any
                                                                >> > quality tank.
                                                                >> > --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                >> >> paul helms said:
                                                                >> >> >
                                                                >> >> > the tank itself will come with the overflow box
                                                                >> >> > siliconed in place, but there is an over flow
                                                                >> kit
                                                                >> >> > avaialble as well. the stand pipe for the down
                                                                >> >> tube
                                                                >> >> > has a round insert that has an air pocket, so
                                                                >> it
                                                                >> >> raise
                                                                >> >> > when water is present and lowers when it is
                                                                >> not.
                                                                >> >> this
                                                                >> >> > keeps you from having the glory hole sound at
                                                                >> low
                                                                >> >> > levels.
                                                                >> >> Have you actually used one of these? I don't
                                                                >> think
                                                                >> >> it works the way
                                                                >> >> you're describing, or I'm not understanding you.
                                                                >> >> The only way to reduce
                                                                >> >> the noise of an open drain is to have the drain
                                                                >> >> opening sealed off from
                                                                >> >> the outside air. This means that you could put
                                                                >> it
                                                                >> >> under a cup or bell
                                                                >> >> that has its' rim submerged. The drain won't
                                                                >> make
                                                                >> >> less noise, but the
                                                                >> >> noise will not escape into the room, so
                                                                >> effectively,
                                                                >> >> it is silenced.
                                                                >> >>
                                                                >> >> The problem is that this state is not stable.
                                                                >> The
                                                                >> >> drain will quickly
                                                                >> >> start to siphon and will rapidly drain the tank
                                                                >> >> until the water level
                                                                >> >> drops enough that the rim of the bell breaks the
                                                                >> >> surface and lets air in.
                                                                >> >> At this point, the air breaks the siphon and you
                                                                >> get
                                                                >> >> a loud slurp.
                                                                >> >>
                                                                >> >> The solution is to add air into the bell at a
                                                                >> rate
                                                                >> >> high enough to keep the
                                                                >> >> siphon from forming, through a hole small enough
                                                                >> to
                                                                >> >> keep the sound of the
                                                                >> >> drain from radiating out. Thus, a small hole at
                                                                >> the
                                                                >> >> top of the bell
                                                                >> >> (above the waterline will let air in and a little
                                                                >> >> sound out. Stick 6" of
                                                                >> >> airline tubing in there and the noise will be
                                                                >> >> minimal as the tubing will
                                                                >> >> dampen resonation.
                                                                >> >>
                                                                >> >> Here is a link to Richard Durso's standpipe
                                                                >> design.
                                                                >> >> Total cost: less than
                                                                >> >> $10. http://www.dursostandpipes.com/
                                                                >> >>
                                                                >> >> Here is Ken Stockman's improvement on the design.
                                                                >> >> It is more compact and
                                                                >> >> will fit in a smaller overflow box. It also
                                                                >> costs
                                                                >> >> less than $10.
                                                                >> >>
                                                                >> >
                                                                >>
                                                                > http://www.rl180reef.com/pages/standpipe/standpipe-ken_stockman.htm
                                                                >> >>
                                                                >> >> Here is a further refinement called the Hofer
                                                                >> Gargle
                                                                >> >> Buster. It costs
                                                                >> >> less than $5 and works better than the other two,
                                                                >> >> but works best in a box.
                                                                >> >>
                                                                >> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/domitron2/HGB/HGB.html
                                                                >> >>
                                                                >> >> As far as the return, a submerged spraybar is
                                                                >> >> silent, unobtrusive and only
                                                                >> >> $1 in parts.
                                                                >> >>
                                                                >> >>
                                                                >> >> > the float also keeps anything other than
                                                                >> >> > water going down the pipe. it also comes with
                                                                >> the
                                                                >> >> > return pipe with a flexible hard plastic return
                                                                >> >> that
                                                                >> >> > can be positioned to control current. included
                                                                >> as
                                                                >> >> > well are silicone, 2 bulkheads, and the flex
                                                                >> line
                                                                >> >> to
                                                                >> >> > connect to the downtube so that it is quieter.
                                                                >> >> all
                                                                >> >> > for about 40.00, all perfect size, no guess
                                                                >> work.
                                                                >> >>
                                                                >> >>
                                                                >> >
                                                                >> >
                                                                >> >
                                                                >> > __________________________________
                                                                >> > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                >> > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources
                                                                >> site!
                                                                >> > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                >> >
                                                                >> >
                                                                >> >
                                                                >> > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                >> when replying, thanks
                                                                >> > .
                                                                >> > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                >> that is not important to
                                                                >> > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                >> original message modify the
                                                                >> > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                >> subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                >> > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                >> >
                                                                >> >
                                                                >> >
                                                                >> >
                                                                >> >
                                                                >> >
                                                                >> >
                                                                >> >
                                                                >>
                                                                >>
                                                                >>
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > __________________________________
                                                                > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                > .
                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9055 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/11/2005
                                                                Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS
                                                                Attachments :
                                                                  Dane & Leslie Moore said:
                                                                  > Hi Patrick,
                                                                  > I couldn't believe it either. And if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes,
                                                                  > I'd be just like you. But I did see it and my jaw was to the floor for
                                                                  > quite some time in disbelief. (I bought the feeders for the larger two
                                                                  > and the fire mouth, I had no idea these little guys would go after them.
                                                                  > And he went after another one after he sucked up the first!)
                                                                  >
                                                                  > I wish I had a smaller tank to move the sickos to. If we keep with
                                                                  > this, I will eventually do that so we will have a spot for them.
                                                                  > Are you sure these are blood parrots? The pics I saw of those on google
                                                                  > did not look the same. They were shaped very differently in the mouth
                                                                  > and "neck" area. The fins were different too.

                                                                  Here are pictures of my two Blood Parrots for you to compare. The heads
                                                                  change as they grow. Mine are about the size of softballs. (The tank is
                                                                  18" tall. Use the thermometer to judge scale.)
                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9056 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 3/11/2005
                                                                  Subject: Digest Number 642 - DANIO DEVARIO
                                                                  In a message dated 3/11/05 5:34:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com writes:


                                                                  From: "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@...>
                                                                  Subject: RE: Fish idenitity? PIC

                                                                  Danio Devario? Also called Bengal danio


                                                                  Wasn't he the boss on "Taxi"??????????????????????
                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9057 From: AL Date: 3/11/2005
                                                                  Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
                                                                  I use tank salt to treat sickness in my tanks and have never lost
                                                                  any fish to illness. The doseage i use is 1 level teaspoon per 15
                                                                  gallons.
                                                                  Al K.
                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                  <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                  > I'm having to change the water because it has virtually no
                                                                  filtration
                                                                  > going on. The tank is a mess and I've been told to change the
                                                                  water by
                                                                  > 1/4 to 1/3 daily. (Some have said 10% change is good.)
                                                                  > It has an ancient undergravel system that doesn't appear to be
                                                                  working.
                                                                  > We get the other tank Monday and I'll be posting for help on that
                                                                  once I
                                                                  > get it moved in.
                                                                  > Thanks for the stress zyme tip. No one has told me of that.
                                                                  >
                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9058 From: AL Date: 3/11/2005
                                                                  Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS
                                                                  Can you email me the pics? They are not showing up.
                                                                  Al K.
                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                  <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                  > The mouth is the same but the head shapes are not like those
                                                                  pictured in
                                                                  > google. The smaller of the two is acting funny this morning. He
                                                                  is
                                                                  > letting himself float nose down to the gravel and just resting
                                                                  when he
                                                                  > does go somewhere else. The other of these is about an inch
                                                                  larger and
                                                                  > "bullies" the smaller one. Could this be stressful? I don't want
                                                                  to
                                                                  > lose either, especially due to one being mean.
                                                                  > This was taken two minutes ago:
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Below: Does anyone know what the striped fish are?
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Pic Below: Top right little guy ate a fish last night. It was as
                                                                  long
                                                                  > as he is. I don't know what either one of these are.
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Any idea what these striped guys are?
                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9059 From: Steve Date: 3/11/2005
                                                                  Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, have lots of questions
                                                                  For the new tank, wash it out thoroughly, I use a combination of bleach and
                                                                  water to clean new tanks. Rinse thoroughly when done.

                                                                  Don't try to save the old substrate, sounds like it needs a very thorough
                                                                  cleaning, or just to be tossed. Figure on 1-2 lbs of gravel per gallon for
                                                                  the new tank. It is relatively cheap, so should not be a big expense. Clean
                                                                  the gravel prior to putting it in the tank. If you don't, you'll likely have
                                                                  cloudy water and stuff floating around for a bit.

                                                                  Use some of the old substrate to seed the new tank--get a head start on
                                                                  developing the bacterial colonies you'll need. Don't be too anxious to move
                                                                  the fish, you want to try to cycle this tank before you add the fish to it.
                                                                  Start up your filter and add plain ammonia to the tank to start the cycle.
                                                                  If you look through the archives, you'll find any number of messages dealing
                                                                  with fishless cycles. There are also places on the web that discuss this. It
                                                                  is fairly easy and painless to do.

                                                                  For the current tank, start dialing down the heat. The fish you have,
                                                                  judging from the e-mail with the photos you posted today, will do fine at
                                                                  around 70^o F., and this will help buy you some time with the other tank, as
                                                                  well as reducing the feeding as I mentioned in my earlier post.

                                                                  The two large ones are parrot fish. The ones that are bluish and schooling
                                                                  would be giant danios, probably _Devario aequipinnatus_. The ones with the
                                                                  black fins are black tetras, also known as black skirt tetras or black widow
                                                                  tetras--_Gymnocorymbus ternetzi_. In the same picture is a serpae tetra,
                                                                  _Hyphessobrycon eques_, the reddish fish with the black "shoulder" spot.

                                                                  \\Steve//

                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                  From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@...]
                                                                  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 11:09 PM
                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                  Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rescued a tank, have lots of questions


                                                                  I wish I knew what they were.
                                                                  I did find out the two large ones are cross breeds of Red Devil and
                                                                  severums. They are 4 & 5” in length.
                                                                  The plecos are 7” and 15”. (the larger one is on his way to a pond this
                                                                  week.) There are 3 silver, striped schooling fish and they are about 3” in
                                                                  length and narrow. There are two little flat ones with a black fin on top
                                                                  and one on bottom, these are about an inch ½ long (and found out tonight
                                                                  that eat live fish). There is a fire mouth, 4” long. A little red/silver
                                                                  thing 1 ½” long and a reddish silvery thing 1 ½”. One catfish about 4”.
                                                                  The guy said he kept the temp around 78, it’s been about that since we’ve
                                                                  had it.

                                                                  We are messing with the filtration tonight and found out that one of the
                                                                  pumps was not connected and the waste has been gathering up in the
                                                                  corner…gross. So we cleaned the gravel as best can be done with this thing
                                                                  while the fish are still in there. I think that will make a big difference.

                                                                  If fish ever lived in poverty, this would be it. The tubes to the power
                                                                  heads are so brittle they’ve broken to the touch. You can’t find
                                                                  replacements for them so we’re literally rigging a tube that’s 1/8” too
                                                                  small to fit onto this pump head. The gravel looks like it was never
                                                                  cleaned. I scooped some out in a pitcher and ran water over it in the sink.
                                                                  When I dumped it out the water was thick black.
                                                                  The plants, plastic, had algae so long and thick it was flowing with the
                                                                  current. I just hope they didn’t go from bad to worse.

                                                                  I’m supposed to get the other tank this Monday and start to work on it so
                                                                  any advice as to what to do to get it ready for these fish will be greatly
                                                                  appreciated. I will likely post a help message once I get it moved in.
                                                                  (how to clean the gravel would be a nice start; and once I know more about
                                                                  the filtration it has, I can post on that.)

                                                                  Thanks for all the help.

                                                                  Oh, and the bubble blister thing on their mouthes turned out to be cotton
                                                                  mouth (or something like that.) The treatment did the job. The blister
                                                                  things are gone and they are their over active selves. Wish I knew what
                                                                  they were. They’re a hoot.

                                                                  Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!


                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                  From: Steve [mailto:steve@...]
                                                                  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 8:13 PM
                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                  Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rescued a tank, have lots of questions

                                                                  Leslie,

                                                                  Can't really make out the fish from your photo. Can you tell us what they
                                                                  are and give approximate sizes?

                                                                  You do have a number of factors going against you here, but you may be able
                                                                  to work through them.

                                                                  First is to get the cycle started in that tank. Cut back on the food. Feed
                                                                  maybe every other day, and only the food all the fish will eat in 2-3
                                                                  minutes. This sparing feeding will help cut back on the amount of ammonia
                                                                  the fish will be adding to the tank. For the plecos, feed them some algae
                                                                  wafers, zucchini slices, or peas with the shell removed, and feed them at
                                                                  night.

                                                                  Test the water daily, and continue the use of Amquel, according to
                                                                  directions, as needed. Amquel will turn the ammonia into a non-toxic form
                                                                  for the fish, and the bacteria will still be able to utilize it to start to
                                                                  establish the cycle. Be aware that Amquel will cause Nessler reagent based
                                                                  test kits to give a false reading (the kits will show hues of amber and
                                                                  yellow to indicate the presence of ammonia), I saw no such indication of
                                                                  the same for Amquel Plus (a product I have not used), but I would presume
                                                                  the same to be true. Use an ammonia test kit that uses salicylate-type
                                                                  reagents. It looks like Amquel Plus may be more beneficial in this case than
                                                                  the straight Amquel, since the Plus also helps with nitrites and nitrates,
                                                                  the intermediate and final products of the ammonia cycle. If you need more
                                                                  information about the Amquel products, let me know as I know someone who is
                                                                  really up to snuff on them, and will write him for more information. Test
                                                                  the water daily to determine how the cycle is going. The ammonia should
                                                                  spike, and level off, then it should start to fall. When this happens, the
                                                                  nitrites will start to spike, level off, then fall, and the nitrates will
                                                                  start to rise. When the ammonia and nitrites are not detectable, then you
                                                                  have cycled the tank.

                                                                  The fish at the surface may be more an indication of stress than a real need
                                                                  for oxygen. As long as you are turning the water over 4-6 times per hour
                                                                  with your filtration, you should be all set in the gaseous exchange that
                                                                  occurs in the aquarium.

                                                                  I'd stop the fungus treatment right away. First, a bubble on the lip is
                                                                  probably not fungus. It may be more that the fish is injured and will
                                                                  probably recover on its own. Probably rammed the side of the tank or
                                                                  something. Never, ever treat for something you don't know what it is. If you
                                                                  have to guess, then don't treat. There are actually very few fish diseases
                                                                  and parasite we can successfully treat with medication--far less than most
                                                                  would have you believe.

                                                                  Do a 10% water change every day, and try to gather some of the stuff you
                                                                  have floating in the tank or sitting in/on the substrate as you remove the
                                                                  water. Prior to adding new water, dose the tank with the requisite dose of
                                                                  Amquel Plus. Now is not the time to play with any of the other water
                                                                  parameters like hardness or pH.

                                                                  You don't mention the temperature of the tank. I don't know what fish you
                                                                  have in it. During this period, I'd keep the temperature down on the low end
                                                                  for the fish. This will cause their metabolism to slow and help with your
                                                                  cycle, as they will be contributing less waste to the process. I also
                                                                  noticed you have no live plants in the photo in your post. Keep the lights
                                                                  on the tank off, and just use ambient light as much as possible to view the
                                                                  fish. This will also help slow them down. Don't be afraid to turn on your
                                                                  tank lights if you need to, just be sure to turn them off when you are done.

                                                                  Finally, cross your fingers and pray.

                                                                  \\Steve//

                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                  From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@...]
                                                                  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 9:35 AM
                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Rescued a tank, have lots of questions


                                                                  I rescued a freshwater tank with 15 fish. It was left without electricity
                                                                  in the house, so no pumps, filters, or heat, for 48 hours before I found
                                                                  them.
                                                                  I’ve since put them in a 55 gal tank that was sitting unused for years in
                                                                  this homes kitchen. Very dirty!


                                                                  Some of the problems I’m seeing are:
                                                                  The fish will ALL go to the top of the water, the above pic is of this, as
                                                                  if they trying to breathe. (I’ve changed the water, ½ of it, and added some
                                                                  more air and this has helped with that somewhat.) But they still go to the
                                                                  top periodically and it’s all of them at once which worries me.

                                                                  The 3 schooling fish have bubble looking things on their bottom lips. (I
                                                                  treated with Juungle Tank buddies fungus treatment last night but I’m not
                                                                  positive that this is a fungus.)

                                                                  I’m seeing white clouds with red middles floating around the tank. I was
                                                                  told this might be fungus growing on old food. (I’m hoping the fungus
                                                                  treatment will wipe that out.)

                                                                  I’ve had the water tested and it was high in ammonia. (I’ve treated with
                                                                  Amquel + and have been told to get regular Amquel or Hikari Conditioner. I
                                                                  haven’t found either yet but am going this morning to try again.)

                                                                  There are two large placostumus. One is 14” and the other is just 7”. They
                                                                  are starving! There is no algae in this tank yet is there? (They are being
                                                                  given lots of veggie pellets and other bottom dweller discs as well as
                                                                  cucumber spears at night but is this enough?)

                                                                  OK, so if you see something I am not doing that should be done, I would
                                                                  greatly appreciate knowing this. I have never owned a tank and this was not
                                                                  by choice. I either took them or let them die and letting them die wasn’t
                                                                  an option. The tank has an undergravel filtration which will be replaced
                                                                  with a new tank and filter next week. But not until next week, and I want
                                                                  to make sure these guys are taken care of until then.
                                                                  Only one of the pump power heads has a tube going to the filter and it is
                                                                  covered in old algae. No telling what the inside looks like either. The
                                                                  other power head is new and is serving to aerate the tank. It has no tube
                                                                  (it was split).

                                                                  I’ve lost one fire mouth (he was left in the abandoned tank for almost
                                                                  another full 24 hours after I got the others. I went back the next day and
                                                                  saw him then.) And lost one catfish. This was just yesterday when they
                                                                  were all at the top. The other catfish was almost dead until I changed a
                                                                  lot of the water. Why did this make such a difference?

                                                                  Thanks for any help at all!

                                                                  Leslie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9060 From: Elyse Date: 3/11/2005
                                                                  Subject: Re: Fish idenitity? PIC
                                                                  Attachments :

                                                                    They are Giant Danios

                                                                     

                                                                     

                                                                    Thanks!
                                                                    Elyse
                                                                    elyse@elyserachel.com
                                                                    AIM: ElyseRachel

                                                                    Canine Castaway’s Inc.
                                                                    www.CanineCastaways.org
                                                                    www.CanineCastaways.petfinder.org
                                                                    The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
                                                                    The Tropical Fish Connection:
                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/


                                                                    From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@centurytel.net]
                                                                    Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 1:19 PM
                                                                    To: naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com; AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish idenitity? PIC

                                                                     

                                                                    Can someone give me an idea to what these are?  They used to be silver in color but today they are almost blue, kind of blue silver, with dark orange stripes and a unique pattern to each toward their head.  You can see the pattern more on the fish in the back of the other two.

                                                                     

                                                                    They school and are ALWAYS together.  And VERY fast!

                                                                     

                                                                     

                                                                    Thanks (again) !

                                                                     

                                                                    ~Leslie



                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                    .
                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9061 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 3/11/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS
                                                                    the striped ones are absolutely giant danios
                                                                       Elaine
                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9062 From: TankGurl Date: 3/12/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: Rescued a tank, RE: Salt additive & gravel cleaning
                                                                    On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 23:14:58 -0000, AL <ALKILLIAN@...> wrote:
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > I use tank salt to treat sickness in my tanks and have never lost
                                                                    > any fish to illness. The doseage i use is 1 level teaspoon per 15
                                                                    > gallon

                                                                    Like Al, I use freshwater salt as well (Doc Wellfish's Aquarium Salt),
                                                                    but I use it weekly when I do my water changes. (In combination with
                                                                    baking soda to keep my PH in the high range, since my tank is African
                                                                    cichlid.) The recommended salt dose is 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons and
                                                                    I usually cut that dosage in half. In the 6 years or so I've been
                                                                    keeping fish, I've only lost one fish to illness (Ick) and that was
                                                                    while I was away on vacation and the fish sitter didn't know what she
                                                                    was looking for or at.

                                                                    Maintaining a freshwater aquarium with weekly salt dosage helps keep
                                                                    stress down, adds electrolytes, improves gill function and keeps
                                                                    illnesses down...as well as treating any lurking illness. I highly
                                                                    recommend it.

                                                                    As far as cleaning gravel, get yourself a hose gravel cleaner from
                                                                    your pet/fish store that attaches to your sink (I can't rememeber the
                                                                    brand name right now) These are fantastic for doing bi/weekly water
                                                                    changes/additions and for cleaning gravel. You just run the long
                                                                    cylinder over the gravel, it picks it up, gives it a bath then you
                                                                    move on to the next spot. This will also help keep your nitrates down
                                                                    to a reasonable level as waste matter is removed in addition to stale
                                                                    water.

                                                                    Good luck

                                                                    Kelly
                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9063 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/12/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: "aquarium salt" -> WHY?
                                                                    The original subject line was going to be "'aquarium salt' and why you shouldn't use it".
                                                                     
                                                                        Pure salt is good for use during disease treatment, but I am not so sure it should be constantly added to fw.  But that is another debate.  I always wonder how these "aquarium salt" companies stay in business.  Here is why.  A 1 pound box of aquarium salt costs about $1.30.  Its contents are pure NaCl.  A 4 pound box of pickling salt costs about $1.30.  Its contents are pure NaCl.  So if you buy the aquarium salt, you are paying 4 times more than you have to pay for the same stuff.  All you are buying is a name.
                                                                     
                                                                    I just wanted everyone to know what they are paying for.
                                                                     
                                                                    Patrick, the American Fish Guy
                                                                     
                                                                    Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
                                                                    About my tanks:  
                                                                    29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
                                                                    -I have 5 glolights, 6 long-finned danios, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 2 skirt tetras, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, 1 female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
                                                                    -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                    -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
                                                                    10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
                                                                    -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
                                                                    -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
                                                                    -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
                                                                    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9064 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/12/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: "aquarium salt" -> WHY?
                                                                    Kosher salt here is $3.00 for 10 pounds even cheaper then the pickling/kosher salt in your area.

                                                                    Ingrediants pure NaCl... hmmmm i think its the little fishie on the box, people can't associate salt as good for there fish unless it has Doctor Wellfish on it..


                                                                    rob
                                                                    Indiana
                                                                    USA

                                                                    In a message dated 3/12/2005 11:26:48 AM US Eastern Standard Time, patrickmn1@... writes:



                                                                    .  I always wonder how these "aquarium salt" companies stay in business.  Here is why.  A 1 pound box of aquarium salt costs about $1.30.  Its contents are pure NaCl.  A 4 pound box of pickling salt costs about $1.30.  Its contents are pure NaCl.  So if you buy the aquarium salt, you are paying 4 times more than you have to pay for the same stuff.  All you are buying is a name.

                                                                    I just wanted everyone to know what they are paying for.


                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9065 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/12/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: "aquarium salt" -> WHY?


                                                                    >>Ingrediants pure NaCl... hmmmm i think its the little fishie on the box, people can't associate salt as good for there fish unless it has Doctor Wellfish on it..

                                                                    Lol,

                                                                    How True J

                                                                     

                                                                    Nim

                                                                     

                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9066 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/12/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS

                                                                    Thanks for that.  OK, so now what do they eat?  I know they like dried shrimp but so far, that’s it.

                                                                     

                                                                    Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                     

                                                                     

                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                    From: kritter714@... [mailto:kritter714@...]
                                                                    Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 4:42 PM
                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rescued a tank * PICS

                                                                     

                                                                    the striped ones are absolutely giant danios

                                                                       Elaine



                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                    .
                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9067 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 3/13/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS
                                                                    when I had giant danios it was more what they didn't eat. I feed flake and pellet food and occasional frozen the danios ate it all.
                                                                      Elaine
                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9068 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/13/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: Rescued a tank * PICS

                                                                    That’s weird.  These guys will suck something in and spit it back out.  But they devour dried shrimp like piranhas! 

                                                                     

                                                                    Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                     

                                                                     

                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                    From: kritter714@... [mailto:kritter714@...]
                                                                    Sent:
                                                                    Sunday, March 13, 2005 2:25 AM
                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rescued a tank * PICS

                                                                     

                                                                    when I had giant danios it was more what they didn't eat. I feed flake and pellet food and occasional frozen the danios ate it all.

                                                                      Elaine



                                                                     

                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9069 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/13/2005
                                                                    Subject: Southern California Killi Club, 3/26/2005, 7:00 pm
                                                                    Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                                                                    Southern California Killi Club

                                                                    Saturday March 26, 2005
                                                                    7:00 pm - 8:00 pm
                                                                    This event repeats on the last Saturday of every month.
                                                                    The next reminder for this event will be sent in 10 days, 1 minute.

                                                                    Event Location: Seal Beach
                                                                    Notes:
                                                                    http://home.earthlink.net/~mmills/

                                                                    Meeting are usually the 4th Saturday of the month and at 7:00 P.M. Currently meetings are in Seal Beach, with members coming from Ventura Co., Lancaster,
                                                                    & San Diego

                                                                    For information about meetings call:

                                                                    Mike Mills at (818) 991-3896 in the Thousand Oaks area

                                                                    Bill Grieb at (310) 454-2100 in the Westside of L.A.

                                                                    or Sandy Binder (562) 596-3519 in the Seal Beach area

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                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9070 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/14/2005
                                                                    Subject: MarineBio chat , 3/14/2005, 5:00 pm
                                                                    Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                                                                    MarineBio chat

                                                                    Monday March 14, 2005
                                                                    5:00 pm - 6:00 pm
                                                                    This event repeats every week.

                                                                    Event Location: http://tinyurl.com/4fg62
                                                                    Notes:
                                                                    http://tinyurl.com/4fg62

                                                                    Be sure to check out our MarineBio Chat, every Monday from 8pm to 9pm and Thursday from 8pm to 10pm Eastern Time.

                                                                    Chat LIVE with one of our on-staff Marine Biologists.

                                                                    Learn more about your fish, how to treat common maladies, get recommendations on accessories, food and live animal compatibility, or ask a question that only an expert could answer.

                                                                    MarineBio Chat every Monday and Thursday beginning 8pm EST, only from That Fish Place, The Original Aquatic Superstore.



                                                                    Attention MarineBio chat participants!

                                                                    The chat server is unavailable until 8

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                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9071 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/14/2005
                                                                    Subject: Fish tank update: 1 w/ white growth & 1 pregnant

                                                                    Glad to report all seems well.  The ammonia level is next to nothing and we’ve had no more casualties. 

                                                                    The large 14” pleco is gone and suddenly the tank stays clean.  That’s a nasty critter.  We took him out when I saw him sucking on my blood parrot.  He wasn’t in his own tank for two hours before the water was so dirty you could hardly see him.  Gross!  I’ve never seen something poop so much.

                                                                    The only prob now is that a little red fish with a black dot has a cottony white blob/growth stuck to his left side around the gill.  I can’t find what this might be.  Any ideas and how to treat?

                                                                     

                                                                    And one of the giant danios is obviously a female.  She gets bigger in the tummy every time I see her.  What should I do about this?  Separate her? If so, when?

                                                                     

                                                                    Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                     

                                                                     

                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9072 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/14/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: Fish tank update: 1 w/ white growth & 1 pregnant
                                                                    hm, sounds like a fungus of some sort possibly. there are many meds for fungus at lfs or pet
                                                                    stores like petco, petsmart, etc.



                                                                    Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9073 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/14/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: Valeen

                                                                    ACK! Lol  I LOVE starbucks!

                                                                    I have Starbucks everything!  You would absolutely HATE my kitchen!  =)

                                                                     

                                                                    Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                     

                                                                     

                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                    From: Valeen Gonzalez [mailto:valeendgonzalez@...]
                                                                    Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 2:09 PM
                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish tank update: 1 w/ white growth & 1 pregnant

                                                                     

                                                                    ·         hm, sounds like a fungus of some sort possibly. there are many meds for fungus at lfs or pet
                                                                    stores like petco, petsmart, etc.



                                                                    Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!



                                                                     

                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9074 From: Aaron Alcoholic Date: 3/14/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: Fish idenitity? PIC
                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                      Giant Danios, and as their name suggests they can get BIG

                                                                      Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@centurytel.net> wrote:

                                                                      Can someone give me an idea to what these are?  They used to be silver in color but today they are almost blue, kind of blue silver, with dark orange stripes and a unique pattern to each toward their head.  You can see the pattern more on the fish in the back of the other two.

                                                                       

                                                                      They school and are ALWAYS together.  And VERY fast!

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      Thanks (again) !

                                                                       

                                                                      ~Leslie



                                                                      Please delete this ...


                                                                      Aaron R. Martin

                                                                      (925) 371-8782

                                                                      Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)

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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9075 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/14/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: "aquarium salt" -> WHY?
                                                                      I have these fish (see below) should i add this pure NaCl to my tank
                                                                      or is it going to be bad for these type of fish.


                                                                      Tiger Barbs
                                                                      Bala Shark
                                                                      Guppies
                                                                      Sword Tails
                                                                      Bristle Nose
                                                                      Cory Dory
                                                                      Yabbie (Fresh water cray fish - australian)
                                                                      Flying Fox
                                                                      Simease Figher (Betta)

                                                                      300 liter tank


                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                      > The original subject line was going to be "'aquarium salt' and why
                                                                      > you shouldn't use it".
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Pure salt is good for use during disease treatment, but I am not so
                                                                      > sure it should be constantly added to fw. But that is another
                                                                      > debate.
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9076 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/14/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: "aquarium salt" -> WHY?
                                                                          My opinion is, there is no reason to use salt regularly with totally freshwater fish.  Swordtails and guppies might like some salt, but the rest of your fish are best without it, from what I've read.  Salt in fw is really best used to treat a present disease or parasitic infection.  I think the use of salt as a general additive was probably a marketing scheme that grew to become a popular idea, but I don't know.  There are plenty of people who say it is good to use salt regularly, but there are others who say it does nothing for the fish.  If you were keeping swordtails and guppies without the pure-fw fish, I would say use a teaspoon/5 gallons, but you are also keeping pure fw-fish so I will not say that.
                                                                       
                                                                      Patrick, the American Fish Guy
                                                                      Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
                                                                      -------Original Message-------I have these fish (see below) should i add this pure NaCl to my tank
                                                                      or is it going to be bad for these type of fish.


                                                                      Tiger Barbs
                                                                      Bala Shark
                                                                      Guppies
                                                                      Sword Tails
                                                                      Bristle Nose
                                                                      Cory Dory
                                                                      Yabbie (Fresh water cray fish - australian)
                                                                      Flying Fox
                                                                      Simease Figher (Betta)

                                                                      300 liter tank
                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9077 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/14/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Fish tank update: 1 w/ white growth & 1 pregnant
                                                                      The only prob now is that a little red fish with a black dot has a cottony white blob/growth stuck to his left side around the gill.  I can’t find what this might be.  Any ideas and how to treat?
                                                                       
                                                                          Salt dip would be my suggestion.  I forgot the exact formula and time for salt dip, so you can do a google search.
                                                                       
                                                                      Patrick, the American Fish Guy
                                                                      Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
                                                                       
                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9078 From: mnminiman88 Date: 3/14/2005
                                                                      Subject: Need information on Oscars.
                                                                      Hi to anyone who is reading this.. = )


                                                                      Well its pretty basic... I have a 20 (high) gallon tank... and I have
                                                                      currently 2 oscars in it... one is a red albino oscar and the other
                                                                      is a red tiger oscar... they are about 4-6 inches right now... I need
                                                                      a few questions answered if you dont mind...



                                                                      1. About how long will i be able to keep both of them in that 20
                                                                      gallon tank before i need to "update" and get a bigger tank.

                                                                      2. Whats the best live food to feed them? ( i am currently feeding
                                                                      them rosey reds )

                                                                      3. I have 4 plants in there.. do they like to hide? do i need a rock
                                                                      or cave or something?

                                                                      4. Anything else you think a beginner with oscars like me should kno..

                                                                      Thank you!
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9079 From: Corinna Nilson Date: 3/14/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: "aquarium salt" -> WHY?
                                                                      If you use salt all the time, the parasites will gain an immunity to it
                                                                      which obviously is not beneficial to your fish.

                                                                      Corinna


                                                                      Patrick, American Fish Guy wrote:

                                                                      > My opinion is, there is no reason to use salt regularly with
                                                                      > totally freshwater fish. Swordtails and guppies might like some salt,
                                                                      > but the rest of your fish are best without it, from what I've read.
                                                                      > Salt in fw is really best used to treat a present disease or parasitic
                                                                      > infection. I think the use of salt as a general additive was probably
                                                                      > a marketing scheme that grew to become a popular idea, but I don't
                                                                      > know. There are plenty of people who say it is good to use salt
                                                                      > regularly, but there are others who say it does nothing for the fish.
                                                                      > If you were keeping swordtails and guppies without the pure-fw fish, I
                                                                      > would say use a teaspoon/5 gallons, but you are also keeping pure
                                                                      > fw-fish so I will not say that.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > *Patrick, the American Fish Guy*
                                                                      > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
                                                                      > Nitrogen Cycle
                                                                      > <http://americanfishguy.tripod.com/nitrogencycle.html> :
                                                                      > http://americanfishguy.tripod.com/nitrogencycle.html
                                                                      > /-------Original Message-------/
                                                                      > I have these fish (see below) should i add this pure NaCl to my tank
                                                                      > or is it going to be bad for these type of fish.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Tiger Barbs
                                                                      > Bala Shark
                                                                      > Guppies
                                                                      > Sword Tails
                                                                      > Bristle Nose
                                                                      > Cory Dory
                                                                      > Yabbie (Fresh water cray fish - australian)
                                                                      > Flying Fox
                                                                      > Simease Figher (Betta)
                                                                      >
                                                                      > 300 liter tank
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                      > <http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=54475>
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                      > .
                                                                      > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                      > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                      > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                      > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9080 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/14/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Need information on Oscars.
                                                                      1.well first off you need to upgrade ASAP. THey will start getting aggressive with each other as they get older. More room, the better the chances the aggression will be limited. If they are 4-6 inches now your fish should have JUST started there growth spurt.
                                                                      A healthy well taken care of Oscar should be about 9 inches GIVE OR TAKE... at about a year old.
                                                                      2. Best food to feed any fish is a varied diet. YOu already feed roseys , I suggest getting some cichlid sticks, carnivore pellets, or another floating pellet.
                                                                      Live feeders are not that healthy to begin with and you always have a chance of introducing disease.
                                                                      3. Oscars are great fish.. You need to start thinking of at least a 18 inch wide tank in the REAL Near future.

                                                                      best of luck
                                                                      rob
                                                                      Indiana

                                                                      In a message dated 3/15/2005 12:13:41 AM US Eastern Standard Time, mnminiman88@... writes:


                                                                      1. About how long will i be able to keep both of them in that 20
                                                                      gallon tank before i need to "update" and get a bigger tank.

                                                                      2. Whats the best live food to feed them? ( i am currently feeding
                                                                      them rosey reds )

                                                                      3. I have 4 plants in there.. do they like to hide? do i need a rock
                                                                      or cave or something?

                                                                      4. Anything else you think a beginner with oscars like me should kno..

                                                                      Thank you!


                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9081 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/14/2005
                                                                      Subject: The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA), 3/18/2005, 12:00 am
                                                                      Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                                                                      The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA)

                                                                      Friday March 18, 2005
                                                                      All Day
                                                                      This event repeats every day, until Sunday March 20, 2005.

                                                                      Event Location: Marriott Hotel, Farmington, CT
                                                                      Notes:
                                                                      AGA Live! http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/
                                                                      Upcoming Speaking Engagements and Meetings
                                                                      The Northeast Council Workshop will feature Christel Kasselmann, The NEC�s 30th Annual Convention

                                                                      March 18-20, 2005

                                                                      Marriott Hotel, Farmington, CT

                                                                      March 18-20, 2005.

                                                                      http://www.northeastcouncil.org/html/

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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9082 From: paul helms Date: 3/14/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Need information on Oscars.
                                                                      1. maybe 6 months, you are already pushing it. they
                                                                      should neraly double in size every 6 months until full
                                                                      grown at about 18 inches.
                                                                      2. they DO NOT REQUIRE LIVE FOOD. oscars are mainly
                                                                      plant eaters in the wild, but because of their
                                                                      aggression, will eat anything that is in its territory
                                                                      if it fits in its mouth. they should be fed cichlid
                                                                      pellets as a staple and supplemented monthly or on
                                                                      occasion by some feeder fish or frozen fish such as
                                                                      krill.
                                                                      3. as they grow they will break, uproot and eat your
                                                                      plants, but do like somethig to hide behind.
                                                                      4. get a bigger tank
                                                                      --- mnminiman88 <mnminiman88@...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hi to anyone who is reading this.. = )
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Well its pretty basic... I have a 20 (high) gallon
                                                                      > tank... and I have
                                                                      > currently 2 oscars in it... one is a red albino
                                                                      > oscar and the other
                                                                      > is a red tiger oscar... they are about 4-6 inches
                                                                      > right now... I need
                                                                      > a few questions answered if you dont mind...
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > 1. About how long will i be able to keep both of
                                                                      > them in that 20
                                                                      > gallon tank before i need to "update" and get a
                                                                      > bigger tank.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > 2. Whats the best live food to feed them? ( i am
                                                                      > currently feeding
                                                                      > them rosey reds )
                                                                      >
                                                                      > 3. I have 4 plants in there.. do they like to hide?
                                                                      > do i need a rock
                                                                      > or cave or something?
                                                                      >
                                                                      > 4. Anything else you think a beginner with oscars
                                                                      > like me should kno..
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Thank you!
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >



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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9083 From: paul helms Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: "aquarium salt" -> WHY?
                                                                      i believe that salt was originally marketed to
                                                                      encourage breeding in live barers pat. i also think
                                                                      that its use as a treatment caught on because live
                                                                      bearers are so much hardier and get less parasites, so
                                                                      i agree with you that salt dips are the way to go. i
                                                                      have used water from my salt water tank to treat
                                                                      angels with ick. i give them 60 seconds in the salt
                                                                      and then right back into their own tank.
                                                                      paul
                                                                      --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                      <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                      > My opinion is, there is no reason to use salt
                                                                      > regularly with totally
                                                                      > freshwater fish. Swordtails and guppies might like
                                                                      > some salt, but the rest
                                                                      > of your fish are best without it, from what I've
                                                                      > read. Salt in fw is really
                                                                      > best used to treat a present disease or parasitic
                                                                      > infection. I think the
                                                                      > use of salt as a general additive was probably a
                                                                      > marketing scheme that grew
                                                                      > to become a popular idea, but I don't know. There
                                                                      > are plenty of people who
                                                                      > say it is good to use salt regularly, but there are
                                                                      > others who say it does
                                                                      > nothing for the fish. If you were keeping
                                                                      > swordtails and guppies without
                                                                      > the pure-fw fish, I would say use a teaspoon/5
                                                                      > gallons, but you are also
                                                                      > keeping pure fw-fish so I will not say that.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
                                                                      > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen
                                                                      > Cycle.
                                                                      > Nitrogen Cycle :
                                                                      > http://americanfishguy.tripod.com/nitrogencycle.html
                                                                      > -------Original Message-------
                                                                      > I have these fish (see below) should i add this pure
                                                                      > NaCl to my tank
                                                                      > or is it going to be bad for these type of fish.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Tiger Barbs
                                                                      > Bala Shark
                                                                      > Guppies
                                                                      > Sword Tails
                                                                      > Bristle Nose
                                                                      > Cory Dory
                                                                      > Yabbie (Fresh water cray fish - australian)
                                                                      > Flying Fox
                                                                      > Simease Figher (Betta)
                                                                      >
                                                                      > 300 liter tank



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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9084 From: renee31477 Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: offering 5 gallon set up with fish/snails
                                                                      Hi folks,

                                                                      Ive come to a point where I need to find a new home for my fish tank.
                                                                      The set up includes a 5g planted tank with a simple sponge filter,
                                                                      one amazon sword, one bunch of hornwort(floating), one betta, and 2
                                                                      apple snails.

                                                                      I had an outbreak of pest snails when I first set it up(LFS plants)
                                                                      but other than that its a pretty healthy setup...

                                                                      I will also throw in the gravel vacuum and a bucket for water
                                                                      changes, snail and betta food, water conditioners, and even the test
                                                                      strips I have.

                                                                      Im offering this for $60 which is a steal when compared to buying all
                                                                      this stuff new(about $125) but will take the best offer. As long as
                                                                      it goes to someone that will take care of it, thats my main concern.

                                                                      I hope its not inappropriate to do this, but like I said I wanted to
                                                                      offer it to experienced folks(or at least ones that are willing to
                                                                      learn). If I have to part with them, I want them to go to a caring
                                                                      home.

                                                                      please email me privately for questions/offers.

                                                                      Renee

                                                                      P.S. I live in Ann Arbor Michigan and want the set up to be picked up
                                                                      by new owner.
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9085 From: Bev Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: Newbie with Questions
                                                                      Hello, I joined this group to ask for advice and read about other
                                                                      peoples experiences with their tanks. I need to know how to get rid of
                                                                      pesky snails without harming the tanks for future beneficial snails.
                                                                      Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9086 From: Bev Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: Snails
                                                                      I found a great website for snail information. Thought I would share
                                                                      it with everyone here. It is http://home.mchsi.com/~masts/index.html .
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9087 From: bigter4@yahoo.com Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: Moving!.....and gotta move the tank!!
                                                                      Hello All, It is time once agin for me to ask a jury of my peers
                                                                      another good question. I am moving in a few weeks and the Fish are
                                                                      coming with me. 15 gallon tank. any suggestions on the best way to
                                                                      move the fish and tank so eveyone is ok, and i dont distub the cycle.
                                                                      thx - Ter
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9088 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Moving!.....and gotta move the tank!!
                                                                      3 bucket method.

                                                                      1.remove fish to bucket.
                                                                      2.drain tank as far down as the substrate save water in bucket #2

                                                                      2.Remove the substrate to another bucket leaving enough water to cover the substrate( tank water )
                                                                      place your filter pads,sponges or what ever you use for your filteration in tank #2

                                                                      when you get tank relocated put substrate back inbucket #3, decorate fill with tank water from bucket #2, setup filters and let run once water clears up add fish..  If you still need to add water use tap water to top it off. watch water quality next 48/72 hrs as you may experience a small cycle.

                                                                      Test new houses water as it will probally NOT be the same as old house. Maybe higher ph, ammonia,nitrate levels.  and remember to use dechlorinator that removes chloromine..

                                                                      rob
                                                                      indiana

                                                                      In a message dated 3/15/2005 2:29:07 PM US Eastern Standard Time, bigter4@... writes:


                                                                      Hello All, It is time once agin for me to ask a jury of my peers
                                                                      another good question. I am moving in a few weeks and the Fish are
                                                                      coming with me.  15 gallon tank.  any suggestions on the best way to
                                                                      move the fish and tank so eveyone is ok, and i dont distub the cycle.
                                                                      thx - Ter


                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9089 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Newbie with Questions
                                                                      What kind of pest snails do you have?

                                                                      Terri Bryant
                                                                      www.RainbowSnails.com


                                                                      > -------- Original Message --------
                                                                      > Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie with Questions
                                                                      > From: "Bev" <bfulkes@...>
                                                                      > Date: Mon, March 14, 2005 11:25 pm
                                                                      > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hello, I joined this group to ask for advice and read about other
                                                                      > peoples experiences with their tanks. I need to know how to get rid of
                                                                      > pesky snails without harming the tanks for future beneficial snails.
                                                                      > Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9090 From: Eric Miner Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: Mixing schooling fish
                                                                      Hello All,

                                                                      I'm moving forward in the planning of my first tank (55 gal). I'm now
                                                                      working out what fish I want to live in the tank. I love schooling
                                                                      fish and like Tetras and Danios for this group. The question I has is
                                                                      a bit naive, but... If I have 5-6 members of a species of Danio and
                                                                      Tetra that like the same level in the tank will cause problems with
                                                                      their schooling behavior? Will they be running into each other and
                                                                      causing confusion?

                                                                      Thanks

                                                                      Eric
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9091 From: mnminiman88 Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: Oscars
                                                                      Another quite simple question that i have today.. and i basically
                                                                      have 2 oscars (red albino and a red tiger ) and i want to kno of any
                                                                      site that i can go on that will give me great info with feeding...
                                                                      growth... requirements that they like... etc. so if anyone knows of
                                                                      any sites could you kindly post here... thanks!
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9092 From: Jeremy Carter Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Mixing schooling fish

                                                                      Yep, you're right it will probably cause confusion and the fish won't school at all. You're better off choosing either one schooling species or ones that like different water levels. Good luck.

                                                                      Jeremy


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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9093 From: bigter4@yahoo.com Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Moving!.....and gotta move the tank!!
                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, FortWayneFish@a... wrote:
                                                                      > 3 bucket method.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > 1.remove fish to bucket.
                                                                      > 2.drain tank as far down as the substrate save water in bucket #2
                                                                      >
                                                                      > 2.Remove the substrate to another bucket leaving enough water to
                                                                      cover the
                                                                      > substrate( tank water )
                                                                      > place your filter pads,sponges or what ever you use for your
                                                                      filteration in
                                                                      > tank #2
                                                                      >
                                                                      > when you get tank relocated put substrate back inbucket #3,
                                                                      decorate fill
                                                                      > with tank water from bucket #2, setup filters and let run once
                                                                      water clears up
                                                                      > add fish.. If you still need to add water use tap water to top it
                                                                      off. watch
                                                                      > water quality next 48/72 hrs as you may experience a small cycle.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Test new houses water as it will probally NOT be the same as old
                                                                      house. Maybe
                                                                      > higher ph, ammonia,nitrate levels. and remember to use
                                                                      dechlorinator that
                                                                      > removes chloromine..
                                                                      >
                                                                      > rob
                                                                      > indiana
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Thx Rob, this sounds like a good way to handle the situation. I
                                                                      had a few ideas, good to see i was on the right track! thx again -Ter
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9094 From: Dawana Branch Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Oscars

                                                                      www.oscarfish.com  I have another friend that just got into Oscars and loves this site.

                                                                      Good Luck!

                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9095 From: aquababy_1958 Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: java moss
                                                                      Hello everyone
                                                                      I have been looking for some Java Moss for my tank, have even had a
                                                                      near by LFS order some for me. They can't seem to find any either,
                                                                      can anyone tell me, where can I find some for my tank. Willing to
                                                                      purchase some from someone, and pay for shipping!!! Please help?
                                                                      I have a 10 gal. hospital tank
                                                                      one 55 gal, and one 75 gal.
                                                                      the moss will be going in both the 55, and the 75 gal. tanks.
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9096 From: lesakalez Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: Giant Danio exhibiting chameleon like behavior
                                                                      We finally got the goldfish out of the tank! after losing two very
                                                                      unflirty kissing gourami's and one pictus catfish and three plecos :(
                                                                      But we have had a successful adoption of Giant Danios, so successful
                                                                      infact one of our new babies is showing a creative thank you. Is it
                                                                      normal for the bottom fins of a Giant Danio to turn a bright
                                                                      orange/red? Also we have noticed the lines near the lateral line are
                                                                      a lot brighter than what they looked in the store. Any ideas?

                                                                      Thanks Hank~n~Leslie
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9097 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: Southern California Marine Aquarium Society , 3/18/2005, 7:00 pm
                                                                      Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                                                                      Southern California Marine Aquarium Society

                                                                      Friday March 18, 2005
                                                                      7:00 pm - 8:00 pm
                                                                      This event repeats on the third Friday of every month.

                                                                      Event Location: Santa Ana at the IHOP restaurant at 1001 E. 17th. St., one block east of the 5 Freeway.
                                                                      Notes:
                                                                      http://www.scmas.org/

                                                                      Southern California Marine Aquarium Society (SCMAS) is a marine aquarium club, based in Orange County, California. We're a lively group including both reef and fish-only aquarists

                                                                      We meet the 3rd Friday of every month at 7:00 PM in Santa Ana at the IHOP restaurant at 1001 E. 17th. St., one block east of the 5 Freeway.

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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9098 From: terri@rainbowsnails.com Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: java moss
                                                                      I got some very nice java moss from a member of a snail forum I belong
                                                                      to. She sells it and here's here email address. angjo72@...

                                                                      Terri Bryant
                                                                      www.RainbowSnails.com


                                                                      > -------- Original Message --------
                                                                      > Subject: [AquaticLife] java moss
                                                                      > From: "aquababy_1958" <aquababy_1958@...>
                                                                      > Date: Tue, March 15, 2005 6:05 pm
                                                                      > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hello everyone
                                                                      > I have been looking for some Java Moss for my tank, have even had a
                                                                      > near by LFS order some for me. They can't seem to find any either,
                                                                      > can anyone tell me, where can I find some for my tank. Willing to
                                                                      > purchase some from someone, and pay for shipping!!! Please help?
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9099 From: Dominic Song Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: java moss
                                                                      Hi,
                                                                      I have a small pail of java moss. But I am living in Malaysia. I don't
                                                                      mind to send it to you. But the express mail won't be cheap.


                                                                      On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 21:36:09 -0700, terri@...
                                                                      <terri@...> wrote:
                                                                      > I got some very nice java moss from a member of a snail forum I belong
                                                                      > to. She sells it and here's here email address. angjo72@...
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Terri Bryant
                                                                      > www.RainbowSnails.com
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > > -------- Original Message --------
                                                                      > > Subject: [AquaticLife] java moss
                                                                      > > From: "aquababy_1958" <aquababy_1958@...>
                                                                      > > Date: Tue, March 15, 2005 6:05 pm
                                                                      > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Hello everyone
                                                                      > > I have been looking for some Java Moss for my tank, have even had a
                                                                      > > near by LFS order some for me. They can't seem to find any either,
                                                                      > > can anyone tell me, where can I find some for my tank. Willing to
                                                                      > > purchase some from someone, and pay for shipping!!! Please help?
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                      > .
                                                                      > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                      > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                      > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                      > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9100 From: julie_hash Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Oscars
                                                                      In addition to the other info from our group members, you should check
                                                                      out oscarfish.com... i got tons of info about my cute little babies!

                                                                      In terms of size... they get big. upgrade asap. but stick wit hthem,
                                                                      they really have tier very own and unique personalities!

                                                                      I have sone rocks in my tank, so that when they get spooked or in a
                                                                      scuffle, they can hide. But I also have plants. My guys liked to
                                                                      uproot all of my expensive plants, so what i did was get some elodea
                                                                      (the real cheap stuff) and I got some black, cloth-covered rubberbands
                                                                      (yes, for women's hair), and some medium sized rocks. I rubberbanded a
                                                                      couple of peices to the rocks, and have 4-5 bunches of them.

                                                                      it's really cool, as the fish get bigger, they like to re-arrange the
                                                                      plants; dragging them around. I could watch it for HOURS!

                                                                      Julie

                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mnminiman88" <mnminiman88@y...>
                                                                      wrote:
                                                                      *Snip*so if anyone knows of any sites could you kindly post here...
                                                                      thanks! *Snip*
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9101 From: jazz Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                      How do i get rid of snails?
                                                                      i have tried every means i know from electrocuting them to sterilise them
                                                                      but they keep comming out of bare aquariums
                                                                      even i found out that most products that claim that can get rid of snails do
                                                                      not work as they shoud be,
                                                                      any body have ane remedys
                                                                      thanks
                                                                      j,azzopardi
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9102 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/15/2005
                                                                      Subject: The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA), 3/19/2005, 12:00 am
                                                                      Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                                                                      The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA)

                                                                      Saturday March 19, 2005
                                                                      All Day
                                                                      This event repeats every day, until Sunday March 20, 2005.

                                                                      Event Location: Marriott Hotel, Farmington, CT
                                                                      Notes:
                                                                      AGA Live! http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/
                                                                      Upcoming Speaking Engagements and Meetings
                                                                      The Northeast Council Workshop will feature Christel Kasselmann, The NEC�s 30th Annual Convention

                                                                      March 18-20, 2005

                                                                      Marriott Hotel, Farmington, CT

                                                                      March 18-20, 2005.

                                                                      http://www.northeastcouncil.org/html/

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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9103 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                      In a message dated 3/15/2005 11:37:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, jazz001@... writes:
                                                                      but they  keep comming out of bare aquariums
                                                                      even i found out that most products that claim that can get rid of snails do
                                                                      not work as they shoud be,
                                                                      any body have ane remedys
                                                                      thanks
                                                                      j,azzopardi
                                                                      Bleach.
                                                                       
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9104 From: SuNnY Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                      Hi,

                                                                      Try introducing 2 - 3 Clown loaches in there.

                                                                      They were the best solution for my Snail Problems.

                                                                      Hope this helps...SuNnY !



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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9105 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: snails and Bleach
                                                                      In a message dated 3/15/2005 11:37:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, jazz001@... writes:
                                                                      but they  keep comming out of bare aquariums
                                                                      even i found out that most products that claim that can get rid of snails do
                                                                      not work as they shoud be,
                                                                      any body have ane remedys
                                                                      thanks
                                                                      j,azzopardi
                                                                      I posted bleach too fast.
                                                                      Only do this on an empty tank and thoroughly rinse several times before using it again.
                                                                       
                                                                      What type of fish do you want to keep or that you currently keep?
                                                                      Some loaches are great at keeping snails under control.  SOme cichlids are also good.  I have some Neolamprologous Pulcher (daffodils) and they did a great job of cleaning up my snail problem and keeping them under control.
                                                                       
                                                                      Mike
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9106 From: jazz Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: snails and Bleach
                                                                      I have sterilized the aquarium with products I normally have used for cleaning baby bottles [sterilizing tablets] which is a form of bleach.
                                                                      the fish I currently keep are killifish ad I am assuming that these snails are eating the fish eggs.
                                                                       
                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 9:18 AM
                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: snails and Bleach

                                                                      In a message dated 3/15/2005 11:37:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, jazz001@... writes:
                                                                      but they  keep comming out of bare aquariums
                                                                      even i found out that most products that claim that can get rid of snails do
                                                                      not work as they shoud be,
                                                                      any body have ane remedys
                                                                      thanks
                                                                      j,azzopardi
                                                                      I posted bleach too fast.
                                                                      Only do this on an empty tank and thoroughly rinse several times before using it again.
                                                                       
                                                                      What type of fish do you want to keep or that you currently keep?
                                                                      Some loaches are great at keeping snails under control.  SOme cichlids are also good.  I have some Neolamprologous Pulcher (daffodils) and they did a great job of cleaning up my snail problem and keeping them under control.
                                                                       
                                                                      Mike


                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                      .
                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9107 From: paul helms Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                      you need to get loaches that eat snails, like clown
                                                                      loaches. but make sure they are not good snails. the
                                                                      malayan trumpet snails keep your substrate clean, and
                                                                      you may see 100's at night, whie ramshorns are a
                                                                      softer shelled nuissance snails that can be eaten.
                                                                      meds do not kill snails.
                                                                      --- jazz <jazz001@...> wrote:
                                                                      > How do i get rid of snails?
                                                                      > i have tried every means i know from electrocuting
                                                                      > them to sterilise them
                                                                      > but they keep comming out of bare aquariums
                                                                      > even i found out that most products that claim that
                                                                      > can get rid of snails do
                                                                      > not work as they shoud be,
                                                                      > any body have ane remedys
                                                                      > thanks
                                                                      > j,azzopardi
                                                                      >
                                                                      >



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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9108 From: paul helms Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: java moss
                                                                      where are you located? i have a friend that grows it.
                                                                      he has a large bowl rock piece that is covered as well
                                                                      as some small pieces. basically it is filling a 30
                                                                      gallon aquarium completely.
                                                                      --- aquababy_1958 <aquababy_1958@...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hello everyone
                                                                      > I have been looking for some Java Moss for my tank,
                                                                      > have even had a
                                                                      > near by LFS order some for me. They can't seem to
                                                                      > find any either,
                                                                      > can anyone tell me, where can I find some for my
                                                                      > tank. Willing to
                                                                      > purchase some from someone, and pay for shipping!!!
                                                                      > Please help?
                                                                      > I have a 10 gal. hospital tank
                                                                      > one 55 gal, and one 75 gal.
                                                                      > the moss will be going in both the 55, and the 75
                                                                      > gal. tanks.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >



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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9109 From: Loie Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: java moss
                                                                      Hi Paul, I am located in Mich. I can't believe it is so hard for me to find!  Tahnk you !

                                                                      paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                      where are you located? i have a friend that grows it.
                                                                      he has a large bowl rock piece that is covered as well
                                                                      as some small pieces.  basically it is filling a 30
                                                                      gallon aquarium completely.
                                                                      --- aquababy_1958 <aquababy_1958@...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hello everyone
                                                                      >  I have been looking for some Java Moss for my tank,
                                                                      > have even had a
                                                                      > near by LFS order some for me.  They can't seem to
                                                                      > find any either,
                                                                      > can anyone tell me, where can I find some for my
                                                                      > tank. Willing to
                                                                      > purchase some from someone, and pay for shipping!!!
                                                                      > Please help?
                                                                      > I have a 10 gal. hospital tank
                                                                      > one 55 gal, and one 75 gal.
                                                                      > the moss will be going in both the 55, and the 75
                                                                      > gal. tanks.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >


                                                                                 
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                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                      .
                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9110 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Surface scum

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      I have been having a severe problem of surface scum in the tank that has halides. I did some surface skimming and replace 50% of water and it was fine for a day and next day its again there. It seems so thick that its kind of blocking a bit of light reaching down. I don’t really mind that but since I am adding CO2 to the tank so I really cannot have any surface agitation either. I tried running carbon in the filter for 2 days and it had no effect.

                                                                       

                                                                      It looks like a greenish fluorescent matter with some oily kind of a look (when there is a bit of thin oil on the water) which separates up when I blow air onto it and also gets distorted when I touch the water surface by my fingers.

                                                                       

                                                                      This is very different from the normal stuff that we have some times that looks more like organic matter and dead bacteria etc that can be cleared by water change/surface skimming or carbon.

                                                                       

                                                                      Any ideas? Could it be a type of algae?

                                                                       

                                                                      Thanks

                                                                      Nim

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9111 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Surface scum
                                                                      Nim,  Yes, from what you describe, this sounds very much like a type of algae of which I've seen a similar type occasionally growing on local ponds.  If this is the case (which it seems like), I know I don't have to tell you that its probably growing from the combination of the direct overhead lighting and probable excess CO2.  Don't know how you'd get rid of it though, aside from cutting back on the CO2 and/or lighting duration (or a skimmer).  Good luck, buddy,  Ray  
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9112 From: paul helms Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Surface scum
                                                                      it is a type of algae, which is very common in salt
                                                                      water tanks, but not as common in fresh water tanks.
                                                                      it is generally caused by an excess of phosphates and
                                                                      excess lighting. it is very difficult to get rid of,
                                                                      and generally requires the tank to have a surface
                                                                      skimming filter or an over flow system, which skims
                                                                      the surface. unfortunmately it is one of those things
                                                                      that has no easy solution.
                                                                      --- Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I have been having a severe problem of surface scum
                                                                      > in the tank that has
                                                                      > halides. I did some surface skimming and replace 50%
                                                                      > of water and it was
                                                                      > fine for a day and next day its again there. It
                                                                      > seems so thick that its kind
                                                                      > of blocking a bit of light reaching down. I don't
                                                                      > really mind that but since
                                                                      > I am adding CO2 to the tank so I really cannot have
                                                                      > any surface agitation
                                                                      > either. I tried running carbon in the filter for 2
                                                                      > days and it had no
                                                                      > effect.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > It looks like a greenish fluorescent matter with
                                                                      > some oily kind of a look
                                                                      > (when there is a bit of thin oil on the water) which
                                                                      > separates up when I
                                                                      > blow air onto it and also gets distorted when I
                                                                      > touch the water surface by
                                                                      > my fingers.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > This is very different from the normal stuff that we
                                                                      > have some times that
                                                                      > looks more like organic matter and dead bacteria etc
                                                                      > that can be cleared by
                                                                      > water change/surface skimming or carbon.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Any ideas? Could it be a type of algae?
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Thanks
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Nim
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >



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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9113 From: paul helms Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: java moss
                                                                      that is too bad, we are in california, and these rocks
                                                                      are quite heavy, so shipping may be prohibitively
                                                                      expensive.
                                                                      --- Loie <aquababy_1958@...> wrote:
                                                                      > Hi Paul, I am located in Mich. I can't believe it is
                                                                      > so hard for me to find! Tahnk you !
                                                                      >
                                                                      > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:where are you
                                                                      > located? i have a friend that grows it.
                                                                      > he has a large bowl rock piece that is covered as
                                                                      > well
                                                                      > as some small pieces. basically it is filling a 30
                                                                      > gallon aquarium completely.
                                                                      > --- aquababy_1958 <aquababy_1958@...> wrote:
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Hello everyone
                                                                      > > I have been looking for some Java Moss for my
                                                                      > tank,
                                                                      > > have even had a
                                                                      > > near by LFS order some for me. They can't seem to
                                                                      > > find any either,
                                                                      > > can anyone tell me, where can I find some for my
                                                                      > > tank. Willing to
                                                                      > > purchase some from someone, and pay for
                                                                      > shipping!!!
                                                                      > > Please help?
                                                                      > > I have a 10 gal. hospital tank
                                                                      > > one 55 gal, and one 75 gal.
                                                                      > > the moss will be going in both the 55, and the 75
                                                                      > > gal. tanks.
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > __________________________________
                                                                      > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                      > Make Yahoo! your home page
                                                                      > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                      > replying, thanks
                                                                      > .
                                                                      > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                      > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                      > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                      > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                      > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                      > matter
                                                                      >
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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9114 From: ben olds Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: java moss
                                                                      I'm in Michigan too there is a plant grower in Jenesen
                                                                      are you close to Grand Rapids?

                                                                      Have a great day! Ben...

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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9115 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: java moss
                                                                      how much do you think it would cost to ship to West LA/Venice area?
                                                                      And are all of them attached to rocks? How big are the rocks?

                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...>
                                                                      wrote:
                                                                      > that is too bad, we are in california, and these rocks
                                                                      > are quite heavy, so shipping may be prohibitively
                                                                      > expensive.
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9116 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                      What about kuhlie loaches? Mine is like an assassin.. I only see him
                                                                      at night

                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SuNnY <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                                                      > Hi,
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Try introducing 2 - 3 Clown loaches in there.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > They were the best solution for my Snail Problems.
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9117 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: java moss
                                                                      You can order live Java Moss on Ebay. I've had very good luck with my orders of live plants from any of the vendors there.

                                                                      Two other places I've ordered from and was satisfied with the order is:

                                                                      http://www.aquaticplantdepot.com/index.html
                                                                      http://www.azgardens.com

                                                                      --
                                                                      Chat with you later,
                                                                      Alan
                                                                      --
                                                                      Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                      http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                      -----
                                                                      *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                      *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
                                                                      *** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening list called "OutGardening".
                                                                      *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your address.
                                                                      *** Check them out at:

                                                                      http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/listinfo/

                                                                      ***** Every purchase has its price.


                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                      From: aquababy_1958 [mailto:aquababy_1958@...]
                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 5:05 PM
                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] java moss




                                                                      Hello everyone
                                                                      I have been looking for some Java Moss for my tank, have even had a
                                                                      near by LFS order some for me. They can't seem to find any either,
                                                                      can anyone tell me, where can I find some for my tank. Willing to
                                                                      purchase some from someone, and pay for shipping!!! Please help?
                                                                      I have a 10 gal. hospital tank
                                                                      one 55 gal, and one 75 gal.
                                                                      the moss will be going in both the 55, and the 75 gal. tanks.






                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks . Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9118 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Giant Danio exhibiting chameleon like behavior

                                                                      That’s funny.  Once my danios settled in, they turned blue and their stripes turned brilliant orange.  They are still this way and it’s been 2 weeks.

                                                                       

                                                                      Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      ·          

                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9119 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Snails

                                                                      Our local store uses big gold fish to eat them up. 

                                                                       

                                                                      Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                      From: jazz [mailto:jazz001@...]
                                                                      Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 1:35 AM
                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails

                                                                       

                                                                      How do i get rid of snails?
                                                                      i have tried every means i know  from electrocuting them to sterilise them
                                                                      but they  keep comming out of bare aquariums
                                                                      even i found out that most products that claim that can get rid of snails do
                                                                      not work as they shoud be,
                                                                      any body have ane remedys
                                                                      thanks
                                                                      j,azzopardi



                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                      .
                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9120 From: harry perry Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Snails/Did you try???
                                                                      The clown loach works well.
                                                                       
                                                                      Harry

                                                                      Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:

                                                                      Our local store uses big gold fish to eat them up. 

                                                                       

                                                                      Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                      From: jazz [mailto:jazz001@...]
                                                                      Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 1:35 AM
                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails

                                                                       

                                                                      How do i get rid of snails?
                                                                      i have tried every means i know  from electrocuting them to sterilise them
                                                                      but they  keep comming out of bare aquariums
                                                                      even i found out that most products that claim that can get rid of snails do
                                                                      not work as they shoud be,
                                                                      any body have ane remedys
                                                                      thanks
                                                                      j,azzopardi



                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                      .
                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter






                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                      .
                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9121 From: Marius E. Gaybba Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Organic Aqauriums
                                                                      Organic Aquariums:

                                                                      Koi Pond, Fish Tanks and Marine Tanks:

                                                                      The only 100% Non Toxic Purely Organic Water Treatments for the Fish
                                                                      Pond, Fish Tank and Pet Shop Industry:



                                                                      Research with various non-toxic plant materials, lead us to design
                                                                      treatments that heal an unbalanced water ecology, while creating a
                                                                      natural water ecology which in turn, controls the outbreak of pests
                                                                      & diseases.



                                                                      This was Revolutionary,



                                                                      Seeing that there was, until now, no treatment on the market that
                                                                      can heal tampered water ecology and create the perfect natural
                                                                      environment for the plants, micro-organisms, protozoa, fish & other
                                                                      water life, while balancing the plant & algae growth. These organic
                                                                      treatments will also boost the immune systems of the water life
                                                                      (fish, etc) and heal the negative symptoms that were caused by the
                                                                      tampered water ecology.



                                                                      The outcome was remarkable:

                                                                      B-bac powder:

                                                                      Health treatment:

                                                                      General Treatment:







                                                                      B-bac Powder



                                                                      (Bacteria – Balancing Activating Conditioning)

                                                                      This Unique product is a cultivation of Bacteria grown, over a
                                                                      period of

                                                                      6 to 8 weeks, in and amongst carefully selected 100% NON TOXI plant
                                                                      materials.




                                                                      This Unique Product:

                                                                      Immediately activates, balanced bacteria, which will build a
                                                                      controlled ecosystem. When starting up a new tank one no longer have
                                                                      to depend on the Filter to build up bacteria " which could take up
                                                                      to 2 weeks " before adding the fish. One can now put the Fish into
                                                                      the water tank immediately after adding the bacteria into the water.

                                                                      It conditions the water immediately, creating a stress free, and
                                                                      water environment for Your Fish.

                                                                      It releases natural soluble oils and essences immediately into the
                                                                      water.

                                                                      It turns dead tap water into controlled living water instantly,
                                                                      preventing " New Water Syndrome."



                                                                      Health Treatment:

                                                                      Is a wonderful 100% Non Toxic Organic product that is biologically
                                                                      designed to boost the Fish Immune systems and fight diseases. The
                                                                      Health Treatments is an Organic, colorless treatment, healthy for
                                                                      all fish and plants. Health Treatment will not filter out and can be
                                                                      used to create and maintain a healthy, clean, natural Water Ecology.

                                                                      This Unique Product:

                                                                      Is made from carefully selected 100% Non Toxic Plant Materials.

                                                                      It prevents the spreading of diseases and infections.

                                                                      A colourless soluble material that isolates & destroy Ich (white
                                                                      spot), a common fish killing disease " that is found in a
                                                                      microscopic form in tap water" or could spread to other forms of
                                                                      water life through an effected fish or plant.

                                                                      This treatment will not filter out or change the natural water
                                                                      balance in any negative way.

                                                                      This treatment also acts against fungi.

                                                                      Treats and eliminate cyst and other diseases.

                                                                      This treatment conditions and strengthens the skin of the fish,
                                                                      which brightens the colors.

                                                                      Build up the Immune system of the Fish, which strengthens their
                                                                      resistance against the outbreak and spreading of diseases and
                                                                      infection.

                                                                      Build up the slimy layer " protection layer " of the fish, ensuring
                                                                      a healthy active fish.




                                                                      General Treatment:

                                                                      A mixture of different plant materials, formulated to heal tampered
                                                                      water ecology and help control a good quality of water.

                                                                      This treatment is designed to biologically neutralize waste products
                                                                      and gas production, while balancing the plant and algae growth.

                                                                      The plant materials used in this treatment will also boost the
                                                                      immune systems of the fish and build up the resistance.

                                                                      Our Research:
                                                                      Our research with these treatments started with small projects such
                                                                      as taking a

                                                                      two x liter tank, 1 x cm gravel under layer, with no aeration or
                                                                      water circulation. Inside the tank, there were two danio fish
                                                                      (tropical fish), a plant, and a snail. Starting on 8 December 2002.

                                                                      1. The fish was fed once a day.

                                                                      2. No water was changed, only evaporated water had to be
                                                                      replaced.

                                                                      3. B-bac was added with starting up the test tank and whenever
                                                                      evaporated water was replaced.

                                                                      4. Health Treatment was added only once with starting up the
                                                                      test tank.

                                                                      5. General Treatment was added once a week into the test tank.

                                                                      The results were remarkable and by June 2003, we had to take out the
                                                                      fish due to the cold winter temperatures. However, the water, snail
                                                                      and plant remained in the tank (till today).



                                                                      THE RESULTS:



                                                                      · NO ALGAE GROWTH

                                                                      · NO PLANT OVERGROWTH

                                                                      · NO GAS PRODUCTION

                                                                      · NO OUTBREAK OF ANY PESTS OR DISEASES

                                                                      · THE FISH, SNAIL, AND PLANT WERE IN A BETTER
                                                                      CONDITION.

                                                                      THE MOST REMARKABLE, NO BAD ODORS!





                                                                      Other projects included:



                                                                      Keeping and breeding small tropical life bearers in small dams of
                                                                      200 – 300 litres with a 500 x 300mm self made, (gravel under layer)
                                                                      crate filter. 300 Fish were added into the dam with a slow water
                                                                      rotation of approximately 50 litres per hour.

                                                                      1. The water was not changed, only the evaporated water was
                                                                      refilled.

                                                                      2. The dam was not once cleaned.

                                                                      3. The fish was fed 2-3 times daily.





                                                                      The results that were found after an eight-month test period:




                                                                      · IT WAS NOT ONCE NEEDED TO CLEAN THE FILTER SYSTEM.

                                                                      · THE FISH WAS IN AN EXCELLENT CONDITION.

                                                                      · NO OUTBREAK OF PESTS AND DISEASES.

                                                                      · NO BAD ODORS.

                                                                      · PLANT & ALGAE GROWTH WAS WELL BALANCED.





                                                                      Testimonials:



                                                                      Mr.Wessel Goosen from Pet Warehouse in Goodwood, Cape Town, South
                                                                      Africa tested our Products and found remarkable results. He is still
                                                                      using our treatments in his fresh water fish tanks. He also tested
                                                                      it on his exquisite reef tanks with various inverts and marine fish
                                                                      and without changing any water or cleaning the tank, the water was
                                                                      controlled and well balanced without ammonia traces. The outbreak
                                                                      and spreading of diseases were controlled, leaving the fish and
                                                                      inverts in a much healthier condition than ever before. Not only is
                                                                      he using our organic treatments himself but has also introduced our
                                                                      treatments to the public and the demand is increasing.



                                                                      With these organic treatments and the spark of natural water
                                                                      ecology, fish keeping and breeding has never found to be a more
                                                                      successful and un-complicated, hobby!



                                                                      Mr.Wessels Goosen can be contacted as follow for a Reference:

                                                                      Ph 0027 21 5953296







                                                                      Contact Details:



                                                                      Marius E. Gaybba

                                                                      Distribution and Export Director:

                                                                      29 Packer Avenue

                                                                      Mandalay

                                                                      Cape Town

                                                                      Western Cape

                                                                      South Africa

                                                                      7784



                                                                      Ph 0027 21 3872702

                                                                      Fax 0027 21 2864429

                                                                      Cell 0027 72 8496285
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9122 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: java moss
                                                                      Oh, I wanted to comment on this. One thing on AZGardens. I'm disappointed to report, that you must have an order of at least $35 before they will process. One of the reasons I seldom use them. Even for my pond plants.
                                                                      --
                                                                      Chat with you later,
                                                                      Alan
                                                                      --
                                                                      Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                      http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                      -----
                                                                      *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                      *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
                                                                      *** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening list called "OutGardening".
                                                                      *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your address.
                                                                      *** Check them out at:

                                                                      http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/listinfo/

                                                                      ***** Every purchase has its price.
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9123 From: Valerie Bogert Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: emails
                                                                      Would like to start posting about my fishes! Thanks ~Val


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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9124 From: Amalthea Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: java moss
                                                                      paul, i'm in new york and i'd love to get a hold of some as well!
                                                                      amalthea
                                                                      http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                      Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
                                                                      On Mar 16, 2005, at 4:14 AM, paul helms wrote:

                                                                      > where are you located? i have a friend that grows it.
                                                                      > he has a large bowl rock piece that is covered as well
                                                                      > as some small pieces.  basically it is filling a 30
                                                                      > gallon aquarium completely.
                                                                      > --- aquababy_1958 <aquababy_1958@...> wrote:
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Hello everyone
                                                                      > >  I have been looking for some Java Moss for my tank,
                                                                      > > have even had a
                                                                      > > near by LFS order some for me.  They can't seem to
                                                                      > > find any either,
                                                                      > > can anyone tell me, where can I find some for my
                                                                      > > tank. Willing to
                                                                      > > purchase some from someone, and pay for shipping!!!
                                                                      > > Please help?
                                                                      > > I have a 10 gal. hospital tank
                                                                      > > one 55 gal, and one 75 gal.
                                                                      > > the moss will be going in both the 55, and the 75
                                                                      > > gal. tanks.
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >            
                                                                      > __________________________________
                                                                      > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                      > Make Yahoo! your home page
                                                                      > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                      > .
                                                                      > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                      > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9125 From: Aaron Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: emails
                                                                      Thank you,

                                                                      As you know, in an attempt to prevent spammers, the settings for
                                                                      this group are designed so that New Members posts are moderated.

                                                                      This will cause a delay from the time the messages are sent and when
                                                                      they can be seen by the group.

                                                                      When we see that they are sending messages that are on topic, their
                                                                      privledges are upgraded to be able to post without moderation.

                                                                      Thank you for letting us know, and welcome to the group.




                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valerie Bogert
                                                                      <valbogert01@y...> wrote:
                                                                      > Would like to start posting about my fishes! Thanks ~Val
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9126 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: java moss
                                                                      there are several sources to try online. Most will ship with minimal cost.

                                                                      aquabotanic.com
                                                                      aquariumplants.com
                                                                      aquarium-plants-store.com
                                                                      aquariaplants.com
                                                                      aquatic-store.com
                                                                      just to name a few that have not been mentioned already

                                                                      plus there are a few good sellers on ebay.com and aquabid.com

                                                                      hope you find what youa re looking for
                                                                      rob



                                                                      > Hello everyone
                                                                      >  >  I have been looking for some Java Moss for my tank,
                                                                      >  > have even had a
                                                                      >  > near by LFS order some for me.  They can't seem to
                                                                      >  > find any either,


                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9128 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Lockable Tank Hood
                                                                      Hello everyone!

                                                                      I have been lurking on this list for quite some time and I would like to
                                                                      let you all know that the best tip I have learned from this list (well,
                                                                      ONE of the best) is the use of urine to cycle a tank! Boy, does it work
                                                                      FAST! And I'd have never thought of it on my own. Thanks to the ones
                                                                      on the list who suggested it.

                                                                      Now I have a lovely 40 gal. tank set up with Swartzi and Sterbai Corys
                                                                      and New Guinea rainbows. My problem is this: I have a son who has a
                                                                      neurobiological brain disorder. His judgment is often impaired and
                                                                      given the opportunity, he would kill my fish by overfeeding them. He
                                                                      doesn't mean to, of course. He gets the impulse to feed them and acts
                                                                      on it. So for the time being, my tanks are locked up in my office. But
                                                                      this is no good. I want my largest tank out in the dining room so
                                                                      everyone can enjoy it. I need to know if anyone of you has seen an
                                                                      aquarium frame with attached hood on hinges that can be locked shut and
                                                                      unlocked for feeding the fish. I am afraid I may have to have one
                                                                      special made, but I am hoping there is a ready-made one out there. It
                                                                      would have to have enough clearance for a Fluval multi-stage filter
                                                                      plumbing, air circulation, and heat dissipation. Surely I'm not the
                                                                      only one who has to protect their fish from well meaning people!

                                                                      Cheers,

                                                                      Laura Garcia
                                                                      Redmond, WA
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9129 From: Audrey Archer Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Pest Snails - New Topic: Endlers Swordtails?
                                                                      I found two methods of getting rid of excess pond snails that came in on some live plants:

                                                                      1. Freshwater aquarium SALT added at 1/2 tsp for each 1 gal water change (I now have several empty shells in the bottom of my tank), which my Endlers livebearers are very happy with (they can do fine in a brackish tank, by the way)

                                                                      2. Picked them out and FED them to my Green Spotted Puffer in another tank, who later got caught behind the heater, injured himself, and died :-(

                                                                      New topic - my Endlers have been happily breeding in their planted tank, and today I saw a male who has a REAL sword tail - not just the red markings on the clear fin that they all have, but an actual physical extension beyond the rest of the fin.

                                                                      I do not and never have had any "Swordtails" that could have inbred, and I do not believe Swordtails are even Poecilia species, are they?

                                                                      Audrey

                                                                      10 gal FW Planted Tank
                                                                      4 Golden White Clouds (?)
                                                                      MANY Endler's Livebearers
                                                                      a few pond snails
                                                                      10 gal Brackish Tank
                                                                      empty :-(
                                                                      29 gal high pH tank
                                                                      one adult pair Convict cichlids
                                                                      about 40 - 50 1/2 inch fry (now getting nice markings and available to good homes)

                                                                      Savannah Georgia USA
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9130 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Mean Blood Parrot

                                                                      One of our blood parrots is about an inch bigger than the other and he is such a bully.  He constantly follows the other one nipping at him and he chases after my firemouth as well.  The firemouth and the other BP stay in the corner of the tank and when it’s feeding time they try to come out but Bull, the mean BP, chases them both back into a corner.  He’s more intent on them not getting near his space than he is on eating. 

                                                                      Should I do anything about this or just let them be?  We are upgrading from the 55 to a 75 on Saturday so I’m hoping this will help.  Until then, any suggestions?  Will the larger tank likely help?  I don’t want this to take a toll on the other fish, if it hasn’t already.

                                                                      Thanks a bunch.

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9131 From: Amalthea Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Mean Blood Parrot
                                                                      try this:
                                                                      turn off the lights for about ten minutes, while they're off, rearrange
                                                                      the decor in there, as much as possible and then turn on the lights and
                                                                      pop in some food. they will eat and then be totally confused by the
                                                                      "new" surroundings. that can help with fish aggression a lot of the
                                                                      time.
                                                                      amalthea
                                                                      http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                      Don't be Afraid to Scream....
                                                                      On Mar 16, 2005, at 6:49 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                      > One of our blood parrots is about an inch bigger than the other and he
                                                                      > is such a bully.  He constantly follows the other one nipping at him
                                                                      > and he chases after my firemouth as well.  The firemouth and the other
                                                                      > BP stay in the corner of the tank and when it’s feeding time they try
                                                                      > to come out but Bull, the mean BP, chases them both back into a
                                                                      > corner.  He’s more intent on them not getting near his space than he
                                                                      > is on eating. 
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Should I do anything about this or just let them be?  We are
                                                                      > upgrading from the 55 to a 75 on Saturday so I’m hoping this will
                                                                      > help.  Until then, any suggestions?  Will the larger tank likely
                                                                      > help?  I don’t want this to take a toll on the other fish, if it
                                                                      > hasn’t already.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Thanks a bunch.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >  
                                                                      >
                                                                      >  
                                                                      >
                                                                      >  
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                      > .
                                                                      > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                      > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                      > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                      > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9132 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: java moss
                                                                      I would love some, too!

                                                                      Cheers,

                                                                      Laura Garcia
                                                                      Redmond, WA

                                                                      paul helms wrote:
                                                                      where are you located? i have a friend that grows it.
                                                                      he has a large bowl rock piece that is covered as well
                                                                      as some small pieces.  basically it is filling a 30
                                                                      gallon aquarium completely.
                                                                      --- aquababy_1958 <aquababy_1958@...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hello everyone
                                                                      >  I have been looking for some Java Moss for my tank,
                                                                      > have even had a
                                                                      > near by LFS order some for me.  They can't seem to
                                                                      > find any either,
                                                                      > can anyone tell me, where can I find some for my
                                                                      > tank. Willing to
                                                                      > purchase some from someone, and pay for shipping!!!
                                                                      > Please help?
                                                                      > I have a 10 gal. hospital tank
                                                                      > one 55 gal, and one 75 gal.
                                                                      > the moss will be going in both the 55, and the 75
                                                                      > gal. tanks.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >


                                                                                 
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                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                      --
                                                                      Signature Laura Garcia
                                                                      --
                                                                      John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should
                                                                      not perish but have everlasting life."

                                                                      Acts 2:38  "...Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Christ Jesus for the remission of sins;
                                                                      and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9133 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
                                                                          First it was organic gardening, now organic aquariums.  This makes no sense.  All gardens and aquariums contain carbon, so all produce and aquarium products could easily claim to be "organic".  Add some carbon, call it organic, charge three or four times more, and get rich.  And if no algae growth is a result of a product, I wouldn't want anything to do with it.  What would the algae eaters eat between algae chips?
                                                                       
                                                                      When are people going to learn, if you send spam, you will be made fun of! :)
                                                                       
                                                                      Patrick
                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9134 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Lockable Tank Hood
                                                                          Well, when I become a teacher I plan to have a classroom tank, and I've been trying to think of a way to do this.  I haven't yet, but I do have some ideas you might try.  First is to put Eye-hooks (or is it just I-hooks?) on the front and back of the tank's stand or table, screwed in well, and use a piece of thin rope or a small chain.  Use a small key lock on front and back  It wouldn't look that good, but I think it would work. 
                                                                      Patrick
                                                                       
                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9135 From: m senter Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Lockable Tank Hood
                                                                      As a former teacher & mommy to a 2 year old,  The word no goes along way.  i have no problems with my fish things in fact my 2 year old loves to watch and feed the fish when we pick her up so she can reach to feed the food.  she came running the other day yelling bishies.  she saw a baby fish in the big tank.  i don't know if she knew it could not be there or if she was wanting  me to see it but either way she found it.
                                                                       
                                                                      melissa
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                       
                                                                      Date: 03/16/05 20:38:38
                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lockable Tank Hood
                                                                       
                                                                          Well, when I become a teacher I plan to have a classroom tank, and I've been trying to think of a way to do this.  I haven't yet, but I do have some ideas you might try.  First is to put Eye-hooks (or is it just I-hooks?) on the front and back of the tank's stand or table, screwed in well, and use a piece of thin rope or a small chain.  Use a small key lock on front and back  It wouldn't look that good, but I think it would work. 
                                                                      Patrick
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9136 From: gracefullnature Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
                                                                      Thank you for the Ridicule, hopefully the Public Humiliation will
                                                                      make them think twice....

                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                      <patrickmn1@h...> wrote:
                                                                      > First it was organic gardening, now organic aquariums. This
                                                                      makes no
                                                                      > sense. All gardens and aquariums contain carbon, so all produce
                                                                      and
                                                                      > aquarium products could easily claim to be "organic". Add some
                                                                      carbon, call
                                                                      > it organic, charge three or four times more, and get rich. And if
                                                                      no algae
                                                                      > growth is a result of a product, I wouldn't want anything to do
                                                                      with it.
                                                                      > What would the algae eaters eat between algae chips?
                                                                      >
                                                                      > When are people going to learn, if you send spam, you will be made
                                                                      fun of!
                                                                      > :)
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Patrick
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9137 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: SEABay, 3/19/2005, 7:00 pm
                                                                      Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                                                                      SEABay

                                                                      Saturday March 19, 2005
                                                                      7:00 pm - 8:00 pm
                                                                      This event does not repeat.

                                                                      Event Location: Baylands Interpretive Center, 2775 Embarcadero Road in Palo Alto, CA
                                                                      Notes:
                                                                      Mike Paletta on "Propagation and Coloration in Corals".

                                                                      March 19 , 2005 at 7PM
                                                                      http://www.seabay.org/

                                                                      SEABay is a member of MASNA and encourage you as individuals to consider signing up as well.
                                                                      http://www.masna.org/

                                                                      Yahoo! Greetings
                                                                      Send a Yahoo! Greeting.
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                                                                      Set up birthday reminders!
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                                                                      Privacy Policy - Terms of Service
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9138 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
                                                                      I think this newest spam is the newest nigerian scam, they have trying a different tactic on the all parrot lists.  They try to buy birds and do their usual money wire transfer scams. 
                                                                       
                                                                      Mike 
                                                                       
                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                      From: Patrick, American Fish Guy <patrickmn1@...>
                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      Sent: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:10:38 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Organic Aqauriums

                                                                          First it was organic gardening, now organic aquariums.  This makes no sense.  All gardens and aquariums contain carbon, so all produce and aquarium products could easily claim to be "organic".  Add some carbon, call it organic, charge three or four times more, and get rich.  And if no algae growth is a result of a product, I wouldn't want anything to do with it.  What would the algae eaters eat between algae chips?
                                                                       
                                                                      When are people going to learn, if you send spam, you will be made fun of! :)
                                                                       
                                                                      Patrick
                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                      .
                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9139 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums (why bother!)
                                                                      I would like to take this opportunity to express my feelings about
                                                                      the financial benefits of not spending $35 on a product like this.

                                                                      > The only 100% Non Toxic Purely Organic Water Treatments for Fish

                                                                      By not adding chemicals to your tank you can have a 100% non toxic
                                                                      purley organic water. cost $0


                                                                      > This Unique product is a cultivation of Bacteria grown, over a
                                                                      > period of 6 to 8 weeks, in and amongst carefully selected 100% NON
                                                                      > TOXI plant materials.

                                                                      My experience based upon the coments from members on this group is
                                                                      that a tank will normally take 6 to 8 weeks to cycle, save your self
                                                                      the effort/cost and wait for the same bacteria to grow. cost $0


                                                                      > Health Treatment...
                                                                      > This Unique Product:
                                                                      > Is made from carefully selected 100% Non Toxic Plant Materials.
                                                                      > It prevents the spreading of diseases and infections.
                                                                      > A colourless soluble material that isolates & destroy Ich (white
                                                                      > spot), a common fish killing disease

                                                                      Generally Ich is a result of having high Nitrites or Nitrates. Adding
                                                                      any live plant material (obviously 100% non toxic) will reduce these.
                                                                      cost $2.50 if you buy from a local fish shop.




                                                                      > Our Research:
                                                                      > Our research with these treatments started with small projects such
                                                                      > as taking a
                                                                      >
                                                                      > two x liter tank, 1 x cm gravel under layer, with no aeration or
                                                                      > water circulation. Inside the tank, there were two danio fish
                                                                      > (tropical fish), a plant, and a snail. Starting on 8 December 2002.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > 1. The fish was fed once a day.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > 2. No water was changed, only evaporated water had to be
                                                                      > replaced.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > 3. B-bac was added with starting up the test tank and whenever
                                                                      > evaporated water was replaced.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > 4. Health Treatment was added only once with starting up the
                                                                      > test tank.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > 5. General Treatment was added once a week into the test tank.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > The results were remarkable and by June 2003, we had to take out
                                                                      > the fish due to the cold winter temperatures. However, the water,
                                                                      > snail and plant remained in the tank (till today).


                                                                      Good work! just feel that nature provides the chemicals on its own.





                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marius E. Gaybba"
                                                                      <sawatergeni@y...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Organic Aquariums:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Koi Pond, Fish Tanks and Marine Tanks:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > The only 100% Non Toxic Purely Organic Water Treatments for the
                                                                      Fish
                                                                      > Pond, Fish Tank and Pet Shop Industry:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Research with various non-toxic plant materials, lead us to design
                                                                      > treatments that heal an unbalanced water ecology, while creating a
                                                                      > natural water ecology which in turn, controls the outbreak of pests
                                                                      > & diseases.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > This was Revolutionary,
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Seeing that there was, until now, no treatment on the market that
                                                                      > can heal tampered water ecology and create the perfect natural
                                                                      > environment for the plants, micro-organisms, protozoa, fish & other
                                                                      > water life, while balancing the plant & algae growth. These
                                                                      organic
                                                                      > treatments will also boost the immune systems of the water life
                                                                      > (fish, etc) and heal the negative symptoms that were caused by the
                                                                      > tampered water ecology.
                                                                      > ...



                                                                      Umm... one of the people on the group previously said their father
                                                                      had a tank which they didn't do much work on many many years ago and
                                                                      it never had problems. So it can't be THAT revolutionary.




                                                                      NO OFFENCE INTENDED when posting this message, use your own judgment
                                                                      and read books and ask questions to group if you have problems!

                                                                      Nick
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9140 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Lockable Tank Hood
                                                                          Wait until around seventh grade.  The word no suddenly means "I dare you to do it!" :)  While I was student teaching I heard stories of a teacher getting fish water poured in their coffee.  I wouldn't put it past the students to pour coffee in the fish water.  Of course, they are worse in groups than individuals or pairs.  I was overrun a few times by groups, but the individuals were all so nice.
                                                                       
                                                                      Patrick
                                                                       
                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                      As a former teacher & mommy to a 2 year old,  The word no goes along way.  i have no problems with my fish things in fact my 2 year old loves to watch and feed the fish when we pick her up so she can reach to feed the food.  she came running the other day yelling bishies.  she saw a baby fish in the big tank.  i don't know if she knew it could not be there or if she was wanting  me to see it but either way she found it.
                                                                       
                                                                      melissa
                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9141 From: jason stone Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
                                                                      Dir Sir,

                                                                      I am trapped in a Nigerian prison. I beg your assistance. My African
                                                                      Grey needs a friend and guradian. As I will be in this damp prison
                                                                      for the entirity of my life, I need for someone to watch over my
                                                                      feathered friend. I am looking for someone that will in exchange for
                                                                      their selfless help, will take as payment $17 million USD. Please
                                                                      send me your bank routing information and I will respond with
                                                                      additional instructions.




                                                                      HAHAHHA ... is it something like that?

                                                                      Hope all is well Mike. See you at the next SFAS!

                                                                      -jason


                                                                      On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:08:03 -0500, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I think this newest spam is the newest nigerian scam, they have trying a
                                                                      > different tactic on the all parrot lists. They try to buy birds and do
                                                                      > their usual money wire transfer scams.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Mike
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9142 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Lockable Tank Hood
                                                                      Probably not such good advice for Patrick cause i presume the kids
                                                                      will be bigger than my own 2 year old but...

                                                                      When i was researching on tanks i noticed big is better. So i
                                                                      designed a big (in my opinon) tank and made it with a 12mm thick
                                                                      glass top and a 1.5in hardwood edge (table top) it turned out to be
                                                                      really heavy and i can' only just open it with one hand.

                                                                      My daughter (getting closer to 3 yrs old) is not strong enough to
                                                                      lift it... hence my tank is safe for the moment any ways ;-)



                                                                      When I buy a digi camera I'll show you's my tank I made all by my
                                                                      self, i'm so proud of it! :)


                                                                      Nick


                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "m senter" <msenter@i...> wrote:
                                                                      > As a former teacher & mommy to a 2 year old, The word no goes
                                                                      > along way. i have no problems with my fish things in fact my 2
                                                                      > year old loves to watch and feed the fish when we pick her up so
                                                                      > she can reach to feed the food. she came running the other day
                                                                      > yelling bishies. she saw a baby fish in the big tank. i don't
                                                                      > know if she knew it could not be there or if she was wanting me
                                                                      > to see it but either way she found it.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > melissa
                                                                      >
                                                                      > -------Original Message-------
                                                                      >
                                                                      > From: Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Well, when I become a teacher I plan to have a classroom tank,
                                                                      > and I've been trying to think of a way to do this. I haven't yet,
                                                                      > but I do have some ideas you might try. First is to put Eye-hooks
                                                                      > (or is it just I-hooks?) on the front and back of the tank's stand
                                                                      > or table, screwed in well, and use a piece of thin rope or a small
                                                                      > chain. Use a small key lock on front and back It wouldn't look
                                                                      > that good, but I think it would work.
                                                                      > Patrick
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9143 From: Amalthea Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
                                                                      I hope when I'm trapped in a Nigerian prison, they let me have a
                                                                      computer and an internet hook up too.
                                                                      Now, back to the fish!
                                                                      Amalthea
                                                                      http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                      Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
                                                                      On Mar 16, 2005, at 10:20 PM, jason stone wrote:

                                                                      > Dir Sir,
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I am trapped in a Nigerian prison.  I beg your assistance.  My African
                                                                      > Grey needs a friend and guradian.  As I will be in this damp prison
                                                                      > for the entirity of my life, I need for someone to watch over my
                                                                      > feathered friend.  I am looking for someone that will in exchange for
                                                                      > their selfless help, will take as payment $17 million USD.  Please
                                                                      > send me your bank routing information and I will respond with
                                                                      > additional instructions.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > HAHAHHA  ... is it something like that?
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hope all is well Mike.  See you at the next SFAS!
                                                                      >
                                                                      > -jason
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:08:03 -0500, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...>
                                                                      > wrote:
                                                                      > > 
                                                                      > > 
                                                                      > > I think this newest spam is the newest nigerian scam, they have
                                                                      > trying a
                                                                      > > different tactic on the all parrot lists.  They try to buy birds
                                                                      > and do
                                                                      > > their usual money wire transfer scams. 
                                                                      > >  
                                                                      > > Mike
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                      > .
                                                                      > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                      > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                      > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                      > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
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                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                                                      > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                      > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9144 From: killerb7111964 Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: snails
                                                                      When looking to get rid of snails you also need to check your filter
                                                                      media. They love to get in to the filter and live off the bio media.
                                                                      That's where I find most of the snails that the clown loaches can't
                                                                      get.
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9145 From: lesakalez Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Giant Danio exhibiting chameleon like behavior
                                                                      We also noticed last night that our danio's backsides are turning
                                                                      blue as well as beautiful orange fins. Do yours ever change back
                                                                      to "normal" bc that's what happened with ours yesterday and then
                                                                      right before their bed time snack one had changed colors again.

                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                      <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                      > That's funny. Once my danios settled in, they turned blue and
                                                                      their
                                                                      > stripes turned brilliant orange. They are still this way and it's
                                                                      been
                                                                      > 2 weeks.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > *
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9146 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
                                                                          I wasn't really trying to humiliate them, or even discourage people from buying their product.  I'm just saying that their product sounds too good to be true, and it is clearly SPAM.  I was humiliating the SPAM.  SPAM should always be humiliated, but SPAMmers are people too, and we should not humiliate them.  We should humiliate their SPAM. :)
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                      Patrick
                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9147 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
                                                                      LOL LOL LOL
                                                                      Thanks Jason,
                                                                      You had me laughing pretty good here at work.  I wish the Nigerian scammers were that entertaining.
                                                                      See you at SFAS.
                                                                      Mike 
                                                                       
                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                      From: jason stone <jasonstone@...>
                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      Sent: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:20:18 -0800
                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Organic Aqauriums

                                                                      
                                                                      Dir Sir,
                                                                      
                                                                      I am trapped in a Nigerian prison.  I beg your assistance.  My African
                                                                      Grey needs a friend and guradian.  As I will be in this damp prison
                                                                      for the entirity of my life, I need for someone to watch over my
                                                                      feathered friend.  I am looking for someone that will in exchange for
                                                                      their selfless help, will take as payment $17 million USD.  Please
                                                                      send me your bank routing information and I will respond with
                                                                      additional instructions.
                                                                      
                                                                      
                                                                      
                                                                      
                                                                      HAHAHHA  ... is it something like that?
                                                                      
                                                                      Hope all is well Mike.  See you at the next SFAS!
                                                                      
                                                                      -jason
                                                                      
                                                                      
                                                                      
                                                                      On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:08:03 -0500, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: > > > I think this newest spam is the newest nigerian scam, they have trying a > different tactic on the all parrot lists. They try to buy birds and do > their usual money wire transfer scams. > > Mike ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> <FONT COLOR="#000099">In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! </FONT><A HREF="http://us.click.yahoo.com/EA3HyD/3MnJAA/79vVAA/ANOolB/TM"><B>Click Here!</B></A> --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks . Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9148 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Giant Danio exhibiting chameleon like behavior

                                                                      If they have ever gone back to normal it’s when I’m not around.  Their stripes seem to stand out in contrast more and more.  Used to I could not tell them apart at all. Now their stripes are SO bright and they each have that unique design near their tail, I can’t imagine them not ever having these markings. 

                                                                      I’ve looked up pictures and not seen any this dark before.  But they seem healthy so I just let them change away.

                                                                       

                                                                      Do yours ever have a clearish bubble on their lower lip?  (almost like someone gave them a fat lip.)  All 3 of mine got this at one point. I treated it with a fizzing fungus tab and it seemed to go away.   But now one of them has it again.  I don’t want to keep treating unless I really need to.  Do yours have anything like this?

                                                                       

                                                                      Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                      From: lesakalez [mailto:lesakalez@...]
                                                                      Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 9:40 PM
                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Giant Danio exhibiting chameleon like behavior

                                                                       

                                                                      ·        
                                                                      We also noticed last night that our danio's backsides are turning
                                                                      blue as well as beautiful orange fins. Do yours ever change back
                                                                      to "normal" bc that's what happened with ours yesterday and then
                                                                      right before their bed time snack one had changed colors again.

                                                                      ---.

                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9149 From: Aaron Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
                                                                      Hi All,

                                                                      I let this 1 thru because it was the ultimate, most over-the-top,
                                                                      intensely prophetic piece of work I'd ever seen.

                                                                      Luckily the members picked up on this.

                                                                      Hopefully it will serve as a warning to people new in the hobby,
                                                                      sort of a 'buyers beware' type notice. Even if this 'product' does
                                                                      exist, who knows what is really in it?

                                                                      I'm a sucker, I'll admit to buying everything I can find and trying
                                                                      it out. When I first started, I even bought a Protein Skimmer for my
                                                                      Freshwater tank. Absolute inexperience.

                                                                      Now I know I can come here and ask questions and learn from others
                                                                      experience. Thanks to everybody for making this such a great group.

                                                                      Aaron




                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marius E. Gaybba"
                                                                      <sawatergeni@y...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Organic Aquariums:
                                                                      >...SPAM...etc...
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9150 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Lockable Tank Hood( coffee )
                                                                      A friend of mine bought a beautiful 55 gallon tanks with canopy. The canopy had a singlecatch type lock on it. Worked great until the day they misplaced the key.

                                                                      This might be something to think about any comprable woodworker should be able to whip out a canaopy for a few Dollars and a lock at Home depot or lowes wouldn't cost that much.


                                                                      I wouldn't put it past the students to pour coffee in the fish water

                                                                      I heard a story from an old timer on a diffrent board once about coffee in cichlid tanks. he had worked with this particular species of south/central american cichlid for upwards to 3 years, with no success one night he was in a hurry to get to the bathroom and misplaced his coffee cup ontop of the tank. It spilled. He used the bathroom and returned to find the water a brownish color.  He thaught hmmm do a waterchange and add carbon or let it be since the cofee is diluted so much already..
                                                                      He let it be and within 3 days he had a successful spawn..

                                                                      I don't remember who told this story, or what species it was but it brought a whole lot of discussion about accidents in the fishroom that turned out for the good and some that wasn't so good..





                                                                      In a message dated 3/16/2005 10:17:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time, patrickmn1@... writes:


                                                                          Wait until around seventh grade.  The word no suddenly means "I dare you to do it!" :)  While I was student teaching I heard stories of a teacher getting fish water poured in their coffee.  .  Of course, they are worse in groups than individuals or pairs.  I was overrun a few times by groups, but the individuals were all so nice.



                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9151 From: julie_hash Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                      have you tried putting a piece of cucumber in your tank? I rubber band
                                                                      it to a rock, and put it behind a decoration, so it doesn't look ugly.
                                                                      I leave it overnight nad in the morning harvest about 30 snails & feed
                                                                      them to my oscars. My cories love the cucumber too.

                                                                      julie

                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@a... wrote:
                                                                      *snip*> even i found out that most products that claim that can get
                                                                      rid of snails do not work as they shoud be,*snip*
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9152 From: jazz Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Surface scum
                                                                      ARE YOU HEATING YOUR HOUSE WITH SOME KEROSENE HEATERS?
                                                                       
                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 2:59 PM
                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Surface scum

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      I have been having a severe problem of surface scum in the tank that has halides. I did some surface skimming and replace 50% of water and it was fine for a day and next day its again there. It seems so thick that its kind of blocking a bit of light reaching down. I don’t really mind that but since I am adding CO2 to the tank so I really cannot have any surface agitation either. I tried running carbon in the filter for 2 days and it had no effect.

                                                                       

                                                                      It looks like a greenish fluorescent matter with some oily kind of a look (when there is a bit of thin oil on the water) which separates up when I blow air onto it and also gets distorted when I touch the water surface by my fingers.

                                                                       

                                                                      This is very different from the normal stuff that we have some times that looks more like organic matter and dead bacteria etc that can be cleared by water change/surface skimming or carbon.

                                                                       

                                                                      Any ideas? Could it be a type of algae?

                                                                       

                                                                      Thanks

                                                                      Nim

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                       



                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                      .
                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9153 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA), 3/20/2005, 12:00 am
                                                                      Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                                                                      The Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA)

                                                                      Sunday March 20, 2005
                                                                      All Day
                                                                      This event repeats every day, until Sunday March 20, 2005.

                                                                      Event Location: Marriott Hotel, Farmington, CT
                                                                      Notes:
                                                                      AGA Live! http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/
                                                                      Upcoming Speaking Engagements and Meetings
                                                                      The Northeast Council Workshop will feature Christel Kasselmann, The NEC�s 30th Annual Convention

                                                                      March 18-20, 2005

                                                                      Marriott Hotel, Farmington, CT

                                                                      March 18-20, 2005.

                                                                      http://www.northeastcouncil.org/html/

                                                                      Yahoo! Greetings
                                                                      Send a Yahoo! Greeting.
                                                                      Birthday Reminders
                                                                      Set up birthday reminders!
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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9154 From: jazz Date: 3/16/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                      HOW DO THE LOACHES GO WITH OTHER SMALL FISH AND FRY?
                                                                      DO THEY ATTACK THEM?

                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      From: "joequality1980" <crazy.joe.walcek@...>
                                                                      To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                      Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:01 PM
                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snails


                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > What about kuhlie loaches? Mine is like an assassin.. I only see him
                                                                      > at night
                                                                      >
                                                                      > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SuNnY <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                                                      > > Hi,
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Try introducing 2 - 3 Clown loaches in there.
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > They were the best solution for my Snail Problems.
                                                                      > >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                      > .
                                                                      > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                      the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                      subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                      in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9155 From: SuNnY Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                      No, they are a calm fish. I have had them with my
                                                                      angels, danios, rasboras, platys, neons etc but they
                                                                      play by themselves.

                                                                      Its best advised to have in atleats 3 of them in a
                                                                      tank.

                                                                      Hope this helps...SuNnY !




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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9156 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                      Subject: New to Group
                                                                      Hi~
                                                                      My name is Stacey from West Virginia. I have just started a 10 gallon tank with 3-Mollies,pair of Guppies and 3 comet goldfish( they are gong to a new home in a few days.) As far as the guppies my thing is how do you breed these guys and tell the sexes of these and mollies. My mollies are 1-white,1-yellow and 1- black. I just go them yesterday. Thanks letting me be part of the group. 
                                                                       
                                                                      Stacey
                                                                      2-tiels,2-budgies,1-Parrot
                                                                      8-fish,3-dogs,3-Doves( babies on the way.) 
                                                                       
                                                                       Smiling Clover  





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                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9157 From: Pat Jellison Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                      Subject: Clown Loaches and Snails
                                                                      One caution about clown loaches, which I adore -- they will
                                                                      quickly (days to weeks) eliminate every last snail. Once they
                                                                      do that, you need to put wafers or some such in at night
                                                                      to feed them -- else they starve. My loaches have totally
                                                                      wiped out the populations of snails in every tank I have
                                                                      them in, including heavily-planted 55's. They are even able
                                                                      to get through the tough shells of Malaysian Pinpoint
                                                                      snails. [Of course, they're about 8" long now :-) ]

                                                                      But in my experience, my clown loaches never have bothered
                                                                      small fish.

                                                                      Cheers,
                                                                      PJ



                                                                      > HOW DO THE LOACHES GO WITH OTHER SMALL FISH AND FRY?
                                                                      > DO THEY ATTACK THEM?
                                                                      >
                                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      > From: "joequality1980" <crazy.joe.walcek@...>
                                                                      > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                      > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:01 PM
                                                                      > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snails
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9158 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                      Subject: Stacey's Tank
                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                        Here is a pic of my aquarium.
                                                                         
                                                                        Stacey


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                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9159 From: jazz Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                        Subject: Re: New to Group
                                                                        GUPPIES are relatively easy to be identified
                                                                        there are two main factors  
                                                                        to sex them you must look at their anal fins.
                                                                        the male is straight and pointed  [gonopodium]whilst the female is big
                                                                         
                                                                        an other factor normally the male is smaller and with tail full of colours  whilst female is bigger
                                                                        yet recently we have females with brighter coloration than male!
                                                                         www.fishpondinfo.com

                                                                        Sexing

                                                                        Guppies can mature by three months. Males are generally smaller, but often longer finned. Mature females are full bodied and have a gravid spot which is a dark spot near their vent. Males are much more colourful. They also have a gonopodium which is a modified fin which delivers sperm into the female.

                                                                        JOSEPH
                                                                         
                                                                         
                                                                         
                                                                         
                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 2:16 PM
                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] New to Group

                                                                        Hi~
                                                                        My name is Stacey from West Virginia. I have just started a 10 gallon tank with 3-Mollies,pair of Guppies and 3 comet goldfish( they are gong to a new home in a few days.) As far as the guppies my thing is how do you breed these guys and tell the sexes of these and mollies. My mollies are 1-white,1-yellow and 1- black. I just go them yesterday. Thanks letting me be part of the group. 
                                                                         
                                                                        Stacey
                                                                        2-tiels,2-budgies,1-Parrot
                                                                        8-fish,3-dogs,3-Doves( babies on the way.) 
                                                                         
                                                                         Smiling Clover  





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                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9160 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                        Subject: New Aquarium - Input on design...
                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                          Message
                                                                          Stacey,
                                                                           
                                                                          Thanks for sending the picture of your tank.  I knew one of these aquarium lists let us send pics. 
                                                                           
                                                                          I just converted my tank from plastic to live plants, and I wanted to get some constructive criticism from some of you aqua-pro's there on anything I should do differently.  I have a sense of balance in the garden, and I know that in an aquarium, you want short plants in the front, tall plants in the back.  It seems like there should be some more variegated or red foliage plants I can plant in here.  Any suggestions? 
                                                                           
                                                                          BTW, this is the used aquarium I bought a couple of months ago for $140.  Isn't she a beauty!  Attached is a picture of my tank:
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                          --
                                                                          Chat with you later,
                                                                          Alan
                                                                          --
                                                                          Chandler, Arizona        Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                          http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                          ----- 
                                                                          *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com. 
                                                                          *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
                                                                          *** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening list called "OutGardening".
                                                                          *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your address. 
                                                                          *** Check them out at:
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                          *****  No free lunch in an ecosystem.
                                                                           
                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                          From: Stacey Mallow [mailto:krazy4mypets@yahoo.com]
                                                                          Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:29 AM
                                                                          To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          Subject: [AquaticLife] Stacey's Tank

                                                                          Here is a pic of my aquarium.
                                                                           
                                                                          Stacey


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                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                          .
                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9161 From: Genevieve Floberg Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: Stacey's Tank
                                                                          add more plants if you can
                                                                          how many males do and females do you have

                                                                          Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:
                                                                          Here is a pic of my aquarium.
                                                                           
                                                                          Stacey


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                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9162 From: Genevieve Floberg Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: New to Group
                                                                          keep your tank clean and change 20 % of the water regulary
                                                                          (1 or 2 times a week) and they will do the rest..
                                                                          but make sure you have plenty of plants for the fry to hide in
                                                                          or the other fish and parents will eat them

                                                                          Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:
                                                                          Hi~
                                                                          My name is Stacey from West Virginia. I have just started a 10 gallon tank with 3-Mollies,pair of Guppies and 3 comet goldfish( they are gong to a new home in a few days.) As far as the guppies my thing is how do you breed these guys and tell the sexes of these and mollies. My mollies are 1-white,1-yellow and 1- black. I just go them yesterday. Thanks letting me be part of the group. 
                                                                           
                                                                          Stacey
                                                                          2-tiels,2-budgies,1-Parrot
                                                                          8-fish,3-dogs,3-Doves( babies on the way.) 
                                                                           
                                                                           Smiling Clover  





                                                                          __________________________________________________
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                                                                          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                          .
                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                          Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9163 From: Genevieve Floberg Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: New to Group
                                                                          underneith the body of the molly are the anial fins and
                                                                          if there are only 2 fins its a female.
                                                                          if there are 3 (an extra in between the 2) then its a male

                                                                          Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:
                                                                          Hi~
                                                                          My name is Stacey from West Virginia. I have just started a 10 gallon tank with 3-Mollies,pair of Guppies and 3 comet goldfish( they are gong to a new home in a few days.) As far as the guppies my thing is how do you breed these guys and tell the sexes of these and mollies. My mollies are 1-white,1-yellow and 1- black. I just go them yesterday. Thanks letting me be part of the group. 
                                                                           
                                                                          Stacey
                                                                          2-tiels,2-budgies,1-Parrot
                                                                          8-fish,3-dogs,3-Doves( babies on the way.) 
                                                                           
                                                                           Smiling Clover  





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                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9164 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                          Subject: Alan
                                                                          Alan`
                                                                          I have been trying to figure out how to make a cage for my doves sorry for ignoring your messages. I know they probally need more plants but I can't get them till next month,yes thay are high. I have a 10 gallon tank I bought it for about $30-$35 at Walmart. It came with everything. Thanks for telling me about the gardening group-I may need some advice on flowers and veggies growing.
                                                                           
                                                                          Stacey 


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                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9165 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                          Subject: geneveva
                                                                          Hi~
                                                                          I have a pair of Guppies and am not sure what sex the Mollies are. I have to have photos showing the sex in order for me to figure it out. I have 3-one black,white and yellow. i will try to get some plants next  month running low on money this month.
                                                                           
                                                                          Stacey

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                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9166 From: Genevieve Floberg Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: geneveva
                                                                          not a problem just a note so your fry would survive if you want them to breed
                                                                          but sooner or later you will have so many mollies and guppies you will need a bigger
                                                                          tank and that would have been better because then the chemestry wouldnt change so fast
                                                                          the bigger the tank the less chance of ph and amonia changing so fast...
                                                                          just another tip...
                                                                          how long you been doing tanks did you just start or have you been doing this for a while

                                                                          Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:
                                                                          Hi~
                                                                          I have a pair of Guppies and am not sure what sex the Mollies are. I have to have photos showing the sex in order for me to figure it out. I have 3-one black,white and yellow. i will try to get some plants next  month running low on money this month.
                                                                           
                                                                          Stacey

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                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9167 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                          Subject: Stacey's Mollies
                                                                          I just looked at my Mollies -it looks like I have 2 females and I male the 2 are bigger than the black one. The 2 have pointed tails and the black one has more of a rounded tail.  i have to go to town be back later.
                                                                          Thanks for the Help!
                                                                           
                                                                          Stacey

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                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9168 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                          Subject: java moss
                                                                          this is also a great place to get all sorts of plant fish and tank items I have gotten all sorts of great plants here
                                                                           
                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9169 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                          Subject: MarineBio chat , 3/17/2005, 5:00 pm
                                                                          Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
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                                                                          Thursday March 17, 2005
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                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9170 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
                                                                              I just got a message from Marius.  Apparently they were just trying to inform us of something they were working on and had spent a lot of time on, and meant no harm by it.  I thought I would let everyone know about it.  I think we all suspected Marius of being one of those spam programs, but this is a real person.  Like I said in the last message, it isn't the SPAMmer we should discourage, only the SPAM (spam is supposed to be all capps, isn't it?).  From Marius's message I don't think any harm was meant.
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                          Patrick
                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                          Hi All,

                                                                          I let this 1 thru because it was the ultimate, most over-the-top,
                                                                          intensely prophetic piece of work I'd ever seen.
                                                                          ...
                                                                          Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9171 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
                                                                          That "Organic Aquariums" message sure had me fooled, and am still not quite convinced it wasn't spam.  Not only did I get the message through my "Aquatic Life" site, I also somehow got the message directly to my email address, and it was a bit rambling to say the least; we don't even know each other.  Ray
                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9172 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                          Most puffer species love snails. I don't know if you have a tank that can have puffers, though.
                                                                          They tend to do better in non-community tanks.

                                                                          --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:

                                                                          > Our local store uses big gold fish to eat them up.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                                                          > From: jazz [mailto:jazz001@...]
                                                                          > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 1:35 AM
                                                                          > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails
                                                                          >
                                                                          > How do i get rid of snails?
                                                                          > i have tried every means i know from electrocuting them to sterilise
                                                                          > them
                                                                          > but they keep comming out of bare aquariums
                                                                          > even i found out that most products that claim that can get rid of
                                                                          > snails do
                                                                          > not work as they shoud be,
                                                                          > any body have ane remedys
                                                                          > thanks
                                                                          > j,azzopardi
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                          > .
                                                                          > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important
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                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9173 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: Lockable Tank Hood
                                                                          If you have anysort of handy man skills you can get a cabinet lock at home depot or lowes an install it in almost any hood  just need a 1 inch hole cut for the lock  and a slot cut for the tongue that you turn that is the actual locking mech. and of you go. you can add that to any premade hood or build you own the Seattle aquarium society has instructions to build a hood on their web site.http://www.gsas.org/
                                                                            Alternatively find a commertial tank  maint company you know one of those places that sets up tanks in offices they will likely have locking hoods or a source for them
                                                                            Elaine
                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9174 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                          Subject: Genevieve
                                                                          I am just getting started and may get another tank in the future-when I get some money saved up for one.
                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9175 From: Aaron Alcoholic Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                          Subject: Fwd: Oraganic Aquariums, Bio Clean and Life Giving Enterprises
                                                                          Attachments :


                                                                            Note: forwarded message attached.


                                                                            Aaron R. Martin

                                                                            (925) 371-8782

                                                                            Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)

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                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9176 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                            Subject: breeder screen
                                                                            Where can I get a breeder screen for the tank that is not too high. Is there a website that sells them.
                                                                             
                                                                            Stacey 


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                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9177 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                            Subject: Re: Organic Aqauriums
                                                                            yes, I received 2 long emails also

                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@w... wrote:
                                                                            > That "Organic Aquariums" message sure had me fooled, and am still
                                                                            not quite
                                                                            > convinced it wasn't spam. Not only did I get the message through
                                                                            my "Aquatic
                                                                            > Life" site, I also somehow got the message directly to my email
                                                                            address, and it
                                                                            > was a bit rambling to say the least; we don't even know each
                                                                            other. Ray
                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9178 From: m senter Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                            Subject: Re: breeder screen
                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                              you can get a net at wal-mart. But if you really want to keep the fry then you need to go to petsmart and get a plastic one that has a v shaped thing in it. i have two and really could use 3 at times.
                                                                               
                                                                              melissa 
                                                                               
                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                               
                                                                              Date: 03/17/05 19:54:18
                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] breeder screen
                                                                               
                                                                              Where can I get a breeder screen for the tank that is not too high. Is there a website that sells them.
                                                                               
                                                                              Stacey 


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                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9179 From: paul helms Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                              Subject: Re: Clown Loaches and Snails
                                                                              loaches do not require wafers of any sort, they will
                                                                              do fine with a quality flake, or even tubifex
                                                                              --- Pat Jellison <pjjellison1@...> wrote:
                                                                              > One caution about clown loaches, which I adore --
                                                                              > they will
                                                                              > quickly (days to weeks) eliminate every last snail.
                                                                              > Once they
                                                                              > do that, you need to put wafers or some such in at
                                                                              > night
                                                                              > to feed them -- else they starve. My loaches have
                                                                              > totally
                                                                              > wiped out the populations of snails in every tank I
                                                                              > have
                                                                              > them in, including heavily-planted 55's. They are
                                                                              > even able
                                                                              > to get through the tough shells of Malaysian
                                                                              > Pinpoint
                                                                              > snails. [Of course, they're about 8" long now :-) ]
                                                                              >
                                                                              > But in my experience, my clown loaches never have
                                                                              > bothered
                                                                              > small fish.
                                                                              >
                                                                              > Cheers,
                                                                              > PJ
                                                                              >
                                                                              >
                                                                              >
                                                                              > > HOW DO THE LOACHES GO WITH OTHER SMALL FISH AND
                                                                              > FRY?
                                                                              > > DO THEY ATTACK THEM?
                                                                              > >
                                                                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                              > > From: "joequality1980"
                                                                              > <crazy.joe.walcek@...>
                                                                              > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                              > > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:01 PM
                                                                              > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snails
                                                                              >
                                                                              >



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                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9180 From: paul helms Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                              Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                              soem loaches can be nippy, most are not.
                                                                              --- jazz <jazz001@...> wrote:
                                                                              > HOW DO THE LOACHES GO WITH OTHER SMALL FISH AND FRY?
                                                                              > DO THEY ATTACK THEM?
                                                                              >
                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                              > From: "joequality1980" <crazy.joe.walcek@...>
                                                                              > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                              > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:01 PM
                                                                              > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snails
                                                                              >
                                                                              >
                                                                              > >
                                                                              > >
                                                                              > > What about kuhlie loaches? Mine is like an
                                                                              > assassin.. I only see him
                                                                              > > at night
                                                                              > >
                                                                              > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SuNnY
                                                                              > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                                                              > > > Hi,
                                                                              > > >
                                                                              > > > Try introducing 2 - 3 Clown loaches in there.
                                                                              > > >
                                                                              > > > They were the best solution for my Snail
                                                                              > Problems.
                                                                              > > >
                                                                              > >
                                                                              > >
                                                                              > >
                                                                              > >
                                                                              > >
                                                                              > >
                                                                              > >
                                                                              > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                              > when replying, thanks
                                                                              > > .
                                                                              > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                              > that is not important to
                                                                              > the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                              > message modify the
                                                                              > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                              > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                              > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                              > >
                                                                              > >
                                                                              > >
                                                                              > >
                                                                              > >
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                                                                              > >
                                                                              > >
                                                                              >
                                                                              >



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                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9181 From: paul helms Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                              Subject: Re: java moss
                                                                              unfortunately i miss read that post! he grows java
                                                                              fern!lmao. i will try to see if i can order it
                                                                              through work though. that is java moss. lol i'll get
                                                                              back to everyone on that topic next wed.
                                                                              paul
                                                                              --- Amalthea <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                                              > paul, i'm in new york and i'd love to get a hold of
                                                                              > some as well!
                                                                              > amalthea
                                                                              > http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                              > Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much
                                                                              > More...
                                                                              > On Mar 16, 2005, at 4:14 AM, paul helms wrote:
                                                                              >
                                                                              > > where are you located? i have a friend that grows
                                                                              > it.
                                                                              > > he has a large bowl rock piece that is covered as
                                                                              > well
                                                                              > > as some small pieces.� basically it is filling a
                                                                              > 30
                                                                              > > gallon aquarium completely.
                                                                              > > --- aquababy_1958 <aquababy_1958@...>
                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                              > > >
                                                                              > > > Hello everyone
                                                                              > > >� I have been looking for some Java Moss for my
                                                                              > tank,
                                                                              > > > have even had a
                                                                              > > > near by LFS order some for me.� They can't seem
                                                                              > to
                                                                              > > > find any either,
                                                                              > > > can anyone tell me, where can I find some for
                                                                              > my
                                                                              > > > tank. Willing to
                                                                              > > > purchase some from someone, and pay for
                                                                              > shipping!!!
                                                                              > > > Please help?
                                                                              > > > I have a 10 gal. hospital tank
                                                                              > > > one 55 gal, and one 75 gal.
                                                                              > > > the moss will be going in both the 55, and the
                                                                              > 75
                                                                              > > > gal. tanks.
                                                                              > > >
                                                                              > > >
                                                                              > > >
                                                                              > > >
                                                                              > >
                                                                              > >
                                                                              > > ����� �����
                                                                              > > __________________________________
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                                                                              > when replying, thanks
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                                                                              > > important to the reply and if changing the topic
                                                                              > of the original
                                                                              > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new
                                                                              > subject (was re: old
                                                                              > > subject)" <-,� we Thank You in Advance for your
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                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9182 From: SuNnY Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                              Subject: Re: Clown Loaches and Snails
                                                                              Yup even i feed them tetra flakes. But they still love
                                                                              algae wafers. I have some cories also at the bottom
                                                                              and hence when i drop a few wafers they are the first
                                                                              to attack them.

                                                                              ...SuNnY !



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                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9183 From: paul helms Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                              Subject: Re: java moss
                                                                              i already posted to amalthea taht i miss read the
                                                                              thread. i was thinking java fern not java moss, but i
                                                                              will see if i can order it through work
                                                                              paul
                                                                              --- joequality1980 <crazy.joe.walcek@...> wrote:
                                                                              >
                                                                              > how much do you think it would cost to ship to West
                                                                              > LA/Venice area?
                                                                              > And are all of them attached to rocks? How big are
                                                                              > the rocks?
                                                                              >
                                                                              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                              > <wtfmorlok@y...>
                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                              > > that is too bad, we are in california, and these
                                                                              > rocks
                                                                              > > are quite heavy, so shipping may be prohibitively
                                                                              > > expensive.
                                                                              >
                                                                              >
                                                                              >
                                                                              >



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                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9184 From: Anne Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                              Subject: Re: Stacey's Tank
                                                                              "Here is a pic of my aquarium.
                                                                              Stacey"

                                                                              Hi Stacey, nice to meet you.
                                                                              Anne



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                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9185 From: Loie Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                              Subject: Re: java moss
                                                                              Yeah thats what my LFS ordered, or the supplier messed up on the order!!!!!
                                                                              Anyway because the order was wrong, they let me have the java fern, free!

                                                                              paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                              unfortunately i miss read that post! he grows java
                                                                              fern!lmao. i will try to see if i can order it
                                                                              through work though. that is java moss. lol i'll get
                                                                              back to everyone on that topic next wed.
                                                                              paul
                                                                              --- Amalthea wrote:
                                                                              > paul, i'm in new york and i'd love to get a hold of
                                                                              > some as well!
                                                                              > amalthea
                                                                              > http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                              > Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much
                                                                              > More...
                                                                              > On Mar 16, 2005, at 4:14 AM, paul helms wrote:
                                                                              >
                                                                              > > where are you located? i have a friend that grows
                                                                              > it.
                                                                              > > he has a large bowl rock piece that is covered as
                                                                              > well
                                                                              > > as some small pieces.  basically it is filling a
                                                                              > 30
                                                                              > > gallon aquarium completely.
                                                                              > > --- aquababy_1958
                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                              > > >
                                                                              > > > Hello everyone
                                                                              > > >  I have been looking for some Java Moss for my
                                                                              > tank,
                                                                              > > > have even had a
                                                                              > > > near by LFS order some for me.  They can't seem
                                                                              > to
                                                                              > > > find any either,
                                                                              > > > can anyone tell me, where can I find some for
                                                                              > my
                                                                              > > > tank. Willing to
                                                                              > > > purchase some from someone, and pay for
                                                                              > shipping!!!
                                                                              > > > Please help?
                                                                              > > > I have a 10 gal. hospital tank
                                                                              > > > one 55 gal, and one 75 gal.
                                                                              > > > the moss will be going in both the 55, and the
                                                                              > 75
                                                                              > > > gal. tanks.
                                                                              > > >
                                                                              > > >
                                                                              > > >
                                                                              > > >
                                                                              > >
                                                                              > >
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                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9186 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                              Subject: Re: Lockable Tank Hood
                                                                              Thanks for the suggestions, Elaine.  I hadn't thought of contacting a commercial tank maint. company.   There's
                                                                              one not too far from where I live.  If that avenue doesn't pan out, I will consider trying the diy approach.

                                                                              Cheers,

                                                                              Laura Garcia

                                                                              kritter714@... wrote:

                                                                              > If you have anysort of handy man
                                                                              skills you can get a cabinet lock at
                                                                              > home depot or lowes an install it in almost any hood just need a 1
                                                                              > inch hole cut for the lock and a slot cut for the tongue that you
                                                                              > turn that is the actual locking mech. and of you go. you can add
                                                                              that
                                                                              > to any premade hood or build you own the Seattle aquarium society
                                                                              has
                                                                              > instructions to build a hood on their web
                                                                              site.http://www.gsas.org/
                                                                              > Alternatively find a commertial tank maint company you know one of
                                                                              > those places that sets up tanks in offices they will likely have
                                                                              > locking hoods or a source for them Elaine
                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9187 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/17/2005
                                                                              Subject: Re: Lockable Tank Hood
                                                                              Patrick,

                                                                              That's an interesting suggestion.  I think it might work, although, as you mentioned, it wouldn't look that good.  :-)

                                                                              My son is grown, so the suggestion to make the hood heavier won't work.  He's stronger than I am.

                                                                              Best wishes in your endeavor to become a teacher.  My husband is a school bus driver.   He has the perfect
                                                                              personality for the job! 

                                                                              Regards,

                                                                              Laura Garcia

                                                                              Patrick, American Fish Guy wrote:
                                                                                  Well, when I become a teacher I plan to have a classroom tank, and I've been trying to think of a way to do this.  I haven't yet, but I do have some ideas you might try.  First is to put Eye-hooks (or is it just I-hooks?) on the front and back of the tank's stand or table, screwed in well, and use a piece of thin rope or a small chain.  Use a small key lock on front and back  It wouldn't look that good, but I think it would work. 
                                                                              Patrick
                                                                               



                                                                               


                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9188 From: Genevieve Floberg Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                              Subject: Re: Genevieve
                                                                              good welcome to the fish club!!


                                                                              Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:
                                                                              I am just getting started and may get another tank in the future-when I get some money saved up for one.

                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                              .
                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9189 From: valbogert01 Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                              Subject: bug bombs and fish
                                                                              We have a moth infestation in our apartment. I have a ten gallon
                                                                              tank with the following:
                                                                              3 white cloud minnows
                                                                              2 endlers/guppy mix
                                                                              2 danios
                                                                              2 oto cats

                                                                              Do I need to take the fish elsewhere? I have a small hospital tank
                                                                              that I can set up with the water from the bigger one if I have too.
                                                                              We have to set off this bug bomb the moths are horrible. Apartment
                                                                              manager wont do anything about. Thanks

                                                                              Valerie Bogert
                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9190 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                              Subject: Re: bug bombs and fish
                                                                              In a message dated 3/18/2005 11:18:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, valbogert01@... writes:
                                                                              Do I need to take the fish elsewhere? I have a small hospital tank
                                                                              that I can set up with the water from the bigger one if I have too.
                                                                              We have to set off this bug bomb the moths are horrible. Apartment
                                                                              manager wont do anything about. Thanks
                                                                              Ever consider setting up a nice brackish tank with some archers instead? >:)
                                                                               
                                                                              If you set off bombs, check the packaging or even call the company. Typically with most bug bombs, the tanks at least have to be *well* covered (hermetically sealed!)
                                                                               
                                                                              Vicky
                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9191 From: aclaar877 Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                              Subject: Planted Aquarium / Cloudy Water
                                                                              I have a 55G planted aquarium in good condition, already cycled, no
                                                                              algae trouble or dead/sick fish. Plants and fish doing great. But,
                                                                              recently I've had cloudy water and can't fix it or figure out the
                                                                              cause. Thought that maybe my CO2 mix got into the aquarium, so I
                                                                              removed it and did three 30% water changes. Cloudiness came back.
                                                                              Thought that the peat in my filter (for tetras) may have clouded it,
                                                                              but I removed that and saw no improvement in the water.

                                                                              Problem is similar to green water, but in this case it's not green.
                                                                              Anyway, I'm trying the "dark tank" cure for green water to see what
                                                                              it can do. It's on its third day, no improvement yet.

                                                                              Anyone else have a problem like this and know what it is?

                                                                              AC
                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9192 From: dawana325 Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                              Subject: Locked Aquariums
                                                                              Laura,

                                                                              It just occurred to me that you should look into www.glasscages.com

                                                                              That make hinged(Locking I belive) tops, however they only guarantee
                                                                              fit on aquariums they make. I haven't bought from them yet, but
                                                                              their prices look reasonable. They may even be able to do
                                                                              something "special" for you.

                                                                              Good Luck!!
                                                                              -Dawana
                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9193 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                              Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium / Cloudy Water
                                                                              My daughters planted tank gets white cloudy when she changes the
                                                                              water and filter too often, or too close together.
                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9194 From: Genevieve Floberg Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                              Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium / Cloudy Water
                                                                              when is the last time you did a compleate cleaning of the tank


                                                                              aclaar877 <aclaar877@...> wrote:

                                                                              I have a 55G planted aquarium in good condition, already cycled, no
                                                                              algae trouble or dead/sick fish.  Plants and fish doing great.  But,
                                                                              recently I've had cloudy water and can't fix it or figure out the
                                                                              cause.  Thought that maybe my CO2 mix got into the aquarium, so I
                                                                              removed it and did three 30% water changes.  Cloudiness came back. 
                                                                              Thought that the peat in my filter (for tetras) may have clouded it,
                                                                              but I removed that and saw no improvement in the water. 

                                                                              Problem is similar to green water, but in this case it's not green. 
                                                                              Anyway, I'm trying the "dark tank" cure for green water to see what
                                                                              it can do.  It's on its third day, no improvement yet.

                                                                              Anyone else have a problem like this and know what it is?

                                                                              AC





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                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9195 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                              Subject: Re: Locked Aquariums - Dawana & Bruce
                                                                              Dawana,

                                                                              Thank you for the link.  I visited their site and then emailed them.  Here is the reply I
                                                                              received:

                                                                              Can't help you.
                                                                               
                                                                              You need a console unit where the top and bottom are attached to each other. You could then lock the top access panel.
                                                                               
                                                                              Thanks
                                                                               
                                                                               

                                                                              I do appreciate your suggestion!

                                                                              Thanks,

                                                                              Laura

                                                                              dawana325 wrote:

                                                                              Laura,

                                                                              It just occurred to me that you should look into www.glasscages.com

                                                                              That make hinged(Locking I belive) tops, however they only guarantee
                                                                              fit on aquariums they make.  I haven't bought from them yet, but
                                                                              their prices look reasonable.  They may even be able to do
                                                                              something "special" for you.

                                                                              Good Luck!!
                                                                              -Dawana





                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9196 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                              Subject: Firemouth in pairs?

                                                                              I have one firemouth from the rescue tank.  There were two but the other one got left behind and didn’t make it.  I noticed they hung out together as we tried to save the other one so I’m wondering if I should get another for him to hang out with?  He seems so lonely in the back of the tank but I don’t want to get another if they are fine with being single.  Whatever’s best for the fish. =)

                                                                               

                                                                              Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                               

                                                                               

                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9197 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                              Subject: Sick fish turned white? Pics
                                                                              Attachments :

                                                                                OK

                                                                                This is the little guy that had white fuzz on his side then on his top.  I took him out and treated the quarantine tank for ick.  After 3 days the growth is gone but now the used-to-be red and black fish is now white.  I’m guessing this isn’t a good thing.

                                                                                Any ideas?  And it looks like he has tail rot too…2nd picture.  I know the pics are hard to see but it’s hard to get when your camera makes you use a flash.  So is a split in the fin tail rot?  The other guy like this one doesn’t have a tail this way, then they aren’t identical either but very much alike.

                                                                                Thanks for any help….

                                                                                 

                                                                                 

                                                                                Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                 

                                                                                 

                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9198 From: aclaar877 Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium / Cloudy Water
                                                                                I did a complete cleaning two months ago, when I moved locally. I
                                                                                kept the gravel, filter, and some water going as to save the
                                                                                beneficial bacteria.

                                                                                It's possible I could have done too many water changes, as the other
                                                                                message said. I'll wait out the dark tank for a few more days.

                                                                                Thanks.

                                                                                AC

                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Genevieve Floberg
                                                                                <nativelady76@y...> wrote:
                                                                                > when is the last time you did a compleate cleaning of the tank
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > aclaar877 <aclaar877@y...> wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > I have a 55G planted aquarium in good condition, already cycled,
                                                                                no
                                                                                > algae trouble or dead/sick fish. Plants and fish doing great.
                                                                                But,
                                                                                > recently I've had cloudy water and can't fix it or figure out the
                                                                                > cause. Thought that maybe my CO2 mix got into the aquarium, so I
                                                                                > removed it and did three 30% water changes. Cloudiness came
                                                                                back.
                                                                                > Thought that the peat in my filter (for tetras) may have clouded
                                                                                it,
                                                                                > but I removed that and saw no improvement in the water.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Problem is similar to green water, but in this case it's not
                                                                                green.
                                                                                > Anyway, I'm trying the "dark tank" cure for green water to see
                                                                                what
                                                                                > it can do. It's on its third day, no improvement yet.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Anyone else have a problem like this and know what it is?
                                                                                >
                                                                                > AC
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                thanks
                                                                                > .
                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9199 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Sick fish turned white? Pics
                                                                                is there light on n the tank what is the gravel color  fish can wash out according to environment and stress
                                                                                  Elaine
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9200 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium / Cloudy Water
                                                                                    This is probably a "bacteria bloom" that happens in the first few months after a tank is set up, or re-set up.  Dark will not do anything, it could make it worse if the plants aren't taking in nutrients.
                                                                                 
                                                                                Patrick
                                                                                 
                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                I did a complete cleaning two months ago, when I moved locally.  I
                                                                                kept the gravel, filter, and some water going as to save the
                                                                                beneficial bacteria.

                                                                                It's possible I could have done too many water changes, as the other
                                                                                message said.  I'll wait out the dark tank for a few more days.

                                                                                Thanks.

                                                                                AC
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                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9201 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                                Subject: new to group/question about betas
                                                                                Hello everyone,
                                                                                    I am new to the group. I just joined. I am wondering if anyone can help me on betas. I have 2 females and one male in a 10 gallon heated tank, and there is plenty of places for the females to hide. But I noticed that one of the females has part of the tail missing since I put the male in the tank. Should I be taking the male out of the tank, and for how long?
                                                                                     What else is good to feed betas besides beta food, and what is the best temperture to keep the water at for them. I had read that you shouldn't always keep a male in with the females unless they are ready to breed. How do you know when they are ready to breed?
                                                                                         I also have a clown loach, 2 rosey barbs, and an elgie eater in the tank with the betas.I am a new fish owner, so any advice you give me will be helpful.Thanks.
                                                                                                                        Lorie


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                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9202 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                                Subject: San Francisco Aquarium Society (SFAS), 4/1/2005, 7:30 pm
                                                                                Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                San Francisco Aquarium Society (SFAS)

                                                                                Friday April 1, 2005
                                                                                7:30 pm - 9:30 pm
                                                                                This event repeats on the first Friday of every month.
                                                                                The next reminder for this event will be sent in 9 days, 4 minutes.

                                                                                Event Location: first Friday of each month at San Francisco State University
                                                                                Notes:
                                                                                http://www.sfaquarium.org/index.html

                                                                                We meet the first Friday of each month at The San Francisco State University.

                                                                                Founded in 1923, the San Francisco Aquarium Society is regarded as one of the nation's esteemed aquarium hobbyist organizations.

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                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9203 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Sick fish turned white? Pics

                                                                                No light other than surrounding light from the room and no gravel.  This was a quick make-shift quarantine. 

                                                                                Do you think it’s tail rot?  I want to put him back into the tank but I don’t want anyone else to get whatever it is he has.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                 

                                                                                 

                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                From: kritter714@... [mailto:kritter714@...]
                                                                                Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 5:36 PM
                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sick fish turned white? Pics

                                                                                 

                                                                                is there light on n the tank what is the gravel color  fish can wash out according to environment and stress

                                                                                  Elaine



                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                .
                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9204 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Sick fish turned white? Pics
                                                                                The lack of light can turn a fish pale a lot of mine are less colorful first thing in the morning when the lights are turned back on.
                                                                                  As to fin rot it looks like he is missing a chunk of tail but I see nothing bad about the edges looks clean no swelling no white edges looks more like someone took a bite out of his tail it will eventually regrow given time.
                                                                                 as long as the parameters in the bigger tank are good he  would likely be less stressed in his school although if that is damage from another fish  (likely the blood parrots) they are likely to go for him or other fish in the tank
                                                                                   Elaine
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9205 From: FrankTimJr@comcast.net Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                                Subject: Fishless Cycling Not Working
                                                                                I admit it, I'm just like all the other amature aquarium hobbyist
                                                                                trying to follow the proper, more humane way of cycling a new fish
                                                                                tank, but am getting frustrated because I don't see any change in the
                                                                                levels of ammonia, or the nitrites.

                                                                                I started cycling 10 days ago, and on the advice from a fellow forum
                                                                                member (not from here), told me to stop adding ammonia once the level
                                                                                has peaked. The level peaked on day 4 at 8.0, so I stopped adding the
                                                                                ammonia for a few days, but then after reading several other articles
                                                                                on the subject, I decided to just continue to add the ammonia and
                                                                                just wait and wait and wait until I get a nitrite spike.

                                                                                Well, here is day 10 and still no nitrites. I understand this
                                                                                fishless cycling method takes a while, but I'm at least expecting to
                                                                                see a nitrite spike already. (Right?)

                                                                                The pH level has leveled off at 7.2, and the cloudiness in the water
                                                                                that started on day 4 has gone away almost completely now on day 10,
                                                                                but sill no nitrites. I've also added two doses of "Cycle" which I
                                                                                bought at the pet store the day I picked up the tank, and I topped the
                                                                                water off with treated water when the normal amounts evaporate, but I
                                                                                haven't changed any water yet.

                                                                                Any advice would be most appreciated. If I have to just continue to
                                                                                wait, then fine, but I just need someone on this group of experts to
                                                                                tell me that. Most of you seem to know quite a bit and help others
                                                                                here, so I'm one of those people that needs help.

                                                                                Thank you in advance.
                                                                                Frank
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9206 From: Marius E. Gaybba Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                                Subject: Organic Aquariums
                                                                                Hi Guys

                                                                                I would like to appologize to You All.I was just a bit hurt
                                                                                Yesterday that a Company like Ours that is doing so much good for
                                                                                the Poor Communities in and around Cape Town, South Africa could be
                                                                                accused of being a fraud and a spammer.

                                                                                I do understand from Your Point as well.I myself was nearly caught
                                                                                bu an Nigerian Scam opperating from Benin about 3 Months ago.I am a
                                                                                registerd Export and Importer in South Africa.I was looking for a
                                                                                Koi Fish supplier and were contacted by these Guys.So Yes I
                                                                                understand.

                                                                                I have loaded files and Photos with the Proof that You require.Both
                                                                                the Files and photo's were uploaded under Our holding Company Name
                                                                                " Life Giving Enterprises ".

                                                                                Currently We have started Koi Fish and Carb Breeding Farms here in
                                                                                Cape Town for sustainable Development Programs and We had a Huge
                                                                                Success.

                                                                                I hope We will still be able to help each other.

                                                                                Thank You
                                                                                Marius
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9207 From: Aaron Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                                Subject: Amazon Swords Dying?
                                                                                I have (had?) 2 large plants, centerpiece was bigger than a
                                                                                basketball and the other on the side was about 2/3 as big.

                                                                                The tank is a 55gallon (about 4feet long x 2'high by 1wide).
                                                                                I had 4 - 55watt compact flourescents on timers 12 hours a day.
                                                                                1 bulb cracked when it got splashed. Then algae started growing
                                                                                alot. Thinking it was too much light causing the algae, I only had 1
                                                                                bulb on for about 7 hours for several days.

                                                                                Now the leaves are all laying almost flat and look almost see thro
                                                                                with lots of little holes. The central leaves are turning brown and
                                                                                falling off.

                                                                                I trimmed off most of the leaves that looked the worst.

                                                                                ? - Where do the New leaves grow from? the center or outside edges?

                                                                                I turned the 3 remaining lights back on timer 12hours/day.

                                                                                ?- Will these recover from 'being in the dark'?
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9208 From: Marius E. Gaybba Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                                Subject: Organic Aquariums
                                                                                Hi Guys

                                                                                I need some help from You guys today.

                                                                                Do any of Our Members know any Koi Fish Exporters in Taiwan,
                                                                                Malaysia or Japan.

                                                                                I need to Import about 1000 A+ and AA Grade 10 to 15cm Mix Koi's for
                                                                                Our Project in Cape Town.

                                                                                I would really appreciate the Help.

                                                                                Thank You
                                                                                Marius
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9209 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/18/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling Not Working
                                                                                    It sounds like the ammonia levels may be way too high.  You should never put more ammonia in the tank than brings it up to 4 ppm.  At 8 ppm, I would think it would be too much to allow bacteria to grow.  I may be wrong, but still, way too much ammonia. 
                                                                                    Personally, I've seen too many people describe problems with fishless cycling to consider it a good option.  The major problems are either the cycle won't complete for some reason, or once completed and fish are added, the tank goes through the cycle over again, only there is no expectation of it so it isn't noticed until all the fish start to die.  As for it being humane, I think it is not really any more humane.  No matter what you do, the tank is going to do a mini-cycle when you add the fish, and it is just as bad as the initial cycle.  But that is just my opinion.
                                                                                    I suggest a 50% water change to bring ammonia to 4 ppm and then wait a couple of days and test the ammonia.  If it has dropped, add a little ammonia to get it back to 4 ppm.  Once the ammonia starts dropping after 2 days, it is time to start testing nitrites.  Once nitrites start dropping after 2 days, start testing nitrates.  Then you are in the grey area.  I don't know what to do at that point, and I don't believe anybody else really knows either.  Experts claim to know, but in reality, experts are just typical aquarists with experience and book deals.  Do you quit adding ammonia?  If you do that, the bacteria start to die off because there won't be any ammonia left and there will be a large mini-cycle when you add fish.  Do you keep adding it until you add the fish?  Then you risk exposing the fish to ammonia.  This is why I have problems with fishless cycling.  Too much grey area.
                                                                                 
                                                                                Patrick
                                                                                 
                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                I admit it, I'm just like all the other amature aquarium hobbyist
                                                                                trying to follow the proper, more humane way of cycling a new fish
                                                                                tank, but am getting frustrated because I don't see any change in the
                                                                                levels of ammonia, or the nitrites.

                                                                                I started cycling 10 days ago, and on the advice from a fellow forum
                                                                                member (not from here), told me to stop adding ammonia once the level
                                                                                has peaked.  The level peaked on day 4 at 8.0, so I stopped adding the
                                                                                ammonia for a few days, but then after reading several other articles
                                                                                on the subject, I decided to just  continue to add the ammonia and
                                                                                just wait and wait and wait until I get a nitrite spike.

                                                                                Well, here is day 10 and still no nitrites.  I understand this
                                                                                fishless cycling method takes a while, but I'm at least expecting to
                                                                                see a nitrite spike already. (Right?)

                                                                                The pH level has leveled off at 7.2, and the cloudiness in the water
                                                                                that started on day 4 has gone away almost completely now on day 10,
                                                                                but sill no nitrites.  I've also added two doses of "Cycle" which I
                                                                                bought at the pet store the day I picked up the tank, and I topped the
                                                                                water off with treated water when the normal amounts evaporate, but I
                                                                                haven't changed any water yet.

                                                                                Any advice would be most appreciated.  If I have to just continue to
                                                                                wait, then fine, but I just need someone on this group of experts to
                                                                                tell me that.  Most of you seem to know quite a bit and help others
                                                                                here, so I'm one of those people that needs help.

                                                                                Thank you in advance.
                                                                                Frank








                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9210 From: Norman. S. Hampson. Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums
                                                                                Hi,
                                                                                I was going to suggest you google 'Koi exporters'
                                                                                or breeders but I see you have an advert on google !!
                                                                                what's wrong with the dozens of exporters listed with
                                                                                your advert ?? and why stipulate only those three
                                                                                countrys?.
                                                                                regards,
                                                                                unclenorm



                                                                                --- "Marius E. Gaybba" <sawatergeni@...> wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Hi Guys
                                                                                >
                                                                                > I need some help from You guys today.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Do any of Our Members know any Koi Fish Exporters in
                                                                                > Taiwan,
                                                                                > Malaysia or Japan.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > I need to Import about 1000 A+ and AA Grade 10 to
                                                                                > 15cm Mix Koi's for
                                                                                > Our Project in Cape Town.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > I would really appreciate the Help.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Thank You
                                                                                > Marius
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >

                                                                                Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9211 From: Marius Gaybba Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums
                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                  Hi Norman
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Thank You for getting back to Me.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Currently there is a stigma that everyone in Africa are criminals " Scams ".So that makes it very difficult.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Secondly currently Our Rand to US Dollar is quite low and Prices from US and Japan is to high for us to be competitive here on the market.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Our idea is for uplifting of the poor with Koi Breeding Farms so that We can meet the demand for Our local Pet Shop Industry, and when We are successfully We will then go over to Breed Carb and other Edible Fish to provide for the Poor.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  I had some replies but I can currently get it still at a lower Price Locally here.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  As You will see in My file under " Life Giving Enterprises " in the group with Our Organic Water Treatments We can get a growth of about 35 to 45% in 45 Day's.That way We will be able to create a good supply on the Local Market.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Thank You
                                                                                  Marius

                                                                                  "Norman. S. Hampson." <normnam2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                  Hi,
                                                                                      I was going to suggest you google 'Koi exporters'
                                                                                  or breeders but I see you have an advert on google !!
                                                                                  what's wrong with the dozens of exporters listed with
                                                                                  your advert ?? and why stipulate only those three
                                                                                  countrys?.
                                                                                  regards,
                                                                                                      unclenorm



                                                                                  --- "Marius E. Gaybba" <sawatergeni@yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Hi Guys
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I need some help from You guys today.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Do any of Our Members know any Koi Fish Exporters in
                                                                                  > Taiwan,
                                                                                  > Malaysia or Japan.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I need to Import about 1000 A+ and AA Grade 10 to
                                                                                  > 15cm Mix Koi's for
                                                                                  > Our Project in Cape Town.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I would really appreciate the Help.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Thank You
                                                                                  > Marius
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >

                                                                                  Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


                                                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                  .
                                                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter





                                                                                  LIFE GIVING ENTERPRISES:
                                                                                  The only Organic Solution to Save Our Planet.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Export Director:
                                                                                  Marius E. Gaybba
                                                                                         PH ++27 21 ( 386 4428 ) / ( 387 2702 )
                                                                                  FAX ++27 21 386 4429      CELL ++27 84 5471576


                                                                                  Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                  Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9212 From: Norman. S. Hampson. Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums
                                                                                  Further to my last message.
                                                                                  I've been doing a little
                                                                                  checking and I'm very puzzled to say the least, you
                                                                                  claim to be a senior executive of a company in the
                                                                                  fish industry supposedly trying to run projects to
                                                                                  raise fish to feed starving people, you also claim to
                                                                                  be fish importers and exporters yet you are asking
                                                                                  private hobbyists for information you should already
                                                                                  know or know were to get. You are associating Koi with
                                                                                  your project! Koi are not a source of food for the
                                                                                  poor as anybody with a little knowledge of them would
                                                                                  know, if only because of the costs and slow growth
                                                                                  rate.
                                                                                  What kind of scam are you
                                                                                  trying to pull here!!??



                                                                                  --- "Marius E. Gaybba" <sawatergeni@...> wrote:
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Hi Guys
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I need some help from You guys today.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Do any of Our Members know any Koi Fish Exporters in
                                                                                  > Taiwan,
                                                                                  > Malaysia or Japan.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I need to Import about 1000 A+ and AA Grade 10 to
                                                                                  > 15cm Mix Koi's for
                                                                                  > Our Project in Cape Town.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I would really appreciate the Help.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Thank You
                                                                                  > Marius
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >

                                                                                  Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9213 From: Marius Gaybba Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums
                                                                                  Hi Norman
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Maybe I should lay it out more clearly.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Since the 15 of January 2005.We received a contract from The Western Cape local government to start Uplifting Projects.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  The first Project was to start Aquaculture Farming projects.We agreed with the local Government that We should start a Koi Breeding operation first " Which Local Government will invest the Money for the Koi's." Then because We achieve such a fast Growing rate with Our Products We will be able to sell the Fish to Our local Pet Shop Industry.That money in return will then be used to start buying Land near to Storm Water Dams which We will also treat with Our Treatments and that water will then be pumped out in to smaller Dams where We will be Breeding Carb and Trout fish for the local communities.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  This fish will then be for the Local communities for sustainability projects and human consumption.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  I hope that clears it up for You.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Thank You
                                                                                  Marius 

                                                                                  "Norman. S. Hampson." <normnam2000@...> wrote:
                                                                                  Further to my last message.
                                                                                                             I've been doing a little
                                                                                  checking and I'm very puzzled to say the least, you
                                                                                  claim to be a senior executive of a company in the
                                                                                  fish industry  supposedly trying to run projects to
                                                                                  raise fish to feed starving people, you also claim to
                                                                                  be fish importers and exporters yet you are asking
                                                                                  private hobbyists for information you should already
                                                                                  know or know were to get. You are associating Koi with
                                                                                  your project! Koi are not a source of food for the
                                                                                  poor as anybody with a little knowledge of them would
                                                                                  know, if only because of the costs and slow growth
                                                                                  rate.
                                                                                                              What kind of scam are you
                                                                                  trying to pull here!!??



                                                                                  --- "Marius E. Gaybba" <sawatergeni@...> wrote:
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Hi Guys
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I need some help from You guys today.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Do any of Our Members know any Koi Fish Exporters in
                                                                                  > Taiwan,
                                                                                  > Malaysia or Japan.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I need to Import about 1000 A+ and AA Grade 10 to
                                                                                  > 15cm Mix Koi's for
                                                                                  > Our Project in Cape Town.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I would really appreciate the Help.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Thank You
                                                                                  > Marius
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >

                                                                                  Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


                                                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                  .
                                                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter





                                                                                  LIFE GIVING ENTERPRISES:
                                                                                  The only Organic Solution to Save Our Planet.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Export Director:
                                                                                  Marius E. Gaybba
                                                                                         PH ++27 21 ( 386 4428 ) / ( 387 2702 )
                                                                                  FAX ++27 21 386 4429      CELL ++27 84 5471576


                                                                                  Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                  Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9214 From: Marius E. Gaybba Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                  Subject: I hope this will get people of my case.
                                                                                  More Test Results:
                                                                                  Here is some more information about Our Products.
                                                                                  Our research started in 1977 after many Years of battling to control
                                                                                  water We realize that most other problems causing sicknesses and
                                                                                  fertilities among Fish was a Direct result of Our inability to
                                                                                  control Water in a close system. There is balances in the natural
                                                                                  ecology which lacked in our close systems. We started testing
                                                                                  different natural essences over the Years and designed a 100% Non
                                                                                  Toxic Organic Water Treatment that could control pollution an any
                                                                                  situation. We treated Dams in Agricultural sectors, which had
                                                                                  serious problems, like BLUE - GREEN ALGAE (CY-NO Bacteria), OVER
                                                                                  LOAD OF SLUDGE, SULPHER PRODUCTION in the under layer and ECOLI "
                                                                                  FECAL " pollution. Within the first Week all these kind of Problems
                                                                                  were eliminated after treatments. It totally turns the water
                                                                                  condition positively around. Our projects included treating trout-
                                                                                  farms with Blue Green Algae, which influenced the taste of the Fish
                                                                                  (MUD) and made it toxic. After treating the Dam (68 million Liters)
                                                                                  with Our Organical Product, the water totally cleared and produced
                                                                                  billions of DAPHNIA. The Oxygen levels went up to 80% and the
                                                                                  Harvest was the Best Graded in Sizes, Taste Color and structure. The
                                                                                  technical functions that benefited for the Fish Industry will now be
                                                                                  explained.
                                                                                  During the research period we tested our products in all areas of
                                                                                  the Aqua Culture (Fish Farming) Industry. All larvae life and other
                                                                                  Micro Water Life, Bacterial balances just benefits in Our
                                                                                  Treatments. The First Dam We treated, was a Storm Water Dam " in a
                                                                                  Up market Residential area. The Dam was loaded with Organic Waste "
                                                                                  Sludge " and overloads with Micro-nutrients, from the Gardens,
                                                                                  Chemical Cleaners for washing Cars, Windows, Stoops, Walls and
                                                                                  Paving. The Dam was so Polluted that during Winter Sulpher
                                                                                  Production was so bad that the people Living in and around the
                                                                                  Immediate vicinity developed respiratory problems. We treated the 33
                                                                                  Million Liters with Our Treatments and within 3 Day's the water
                                                                                  cleared and there was " NO MORE BAD ODORS ". After 2 x Shock
                                                                                  treatments the Water was clear, the bottom of the Dam could be seen
                                                                                  about 4 Meters into the Water. The Fish and Micro Life was totally
                                                                                  restored and flourished. Birds start to return to the site, and they
                                                                                  were " BREEDING " Four Months during summer the water levels dropped
                                                                                  to + - 40% totally stagnant (NO INFLOW OR OUTFLOW) with the water
                                                                                  quality in a very good condition. Micronutrient Levels were very low
                                                                                  and oxygen levels very good. No smells or bad Odors could be
                                                                                  detected. After this we treated Dams " AGRICULTURAL "that was
                                                                                  contaminated with BLUE GREEN ALGAE and lots of GREEN ROTTING SLUDGE
                                                                                  drifting on the water. The Dam was + - 20 Hectares and had about 280
                                                                                  million Liters of water with a very Bad Odor. We used Our spray
                                                                                  Application of Our Organic Treatments on the top of the Dam and
                                                                                  within 4 Day's the rotting Green Sludge and Bad Odors were gone and
                                                                                  and the Dam was without any contamination, with a good quality
                                                                                  water. This might sound impossible but to Us Water control became a
                                                                                  way of Live.



                                                                                  We are currently busy uplifting Our Aquaculture Industry, as you are
                                                                                  aware by involving the community in "UPLIFTING PROJECTS" with Our
                                                                                  Fish Farming systems. In Our tests in closed systems we had 36 Gold
                                                                                  Fish in a 60 Liter tank, + - 45 mm in length. Only one Air-stone and
                                                                                  a Conner Filter with gravel ( very fine stones ) in. The Fish had
                                                                                  feeding 5 x Daily and We only topped Up the Evaporated water, while
                                                                                  the tank was weekly treated with Our Treatments. Within 3 Months the
                                                                                  Fish grew to + - 80 to 100mm and the Water quality was very good
                                                                                  with very low (Normal) micronutrient levels. No Ammonia peaks.
                                                                                  After a Year with " NO WATER CHANGED " the Fish and the water were
                                                                                  in a very good state. If his sounds impossible, like we discussed
                                                                                  this is a normal way of Life for Us.
                                                                                  Call it a Miracle or what ever you want, my answer is still seeing
                                                                                  is believing.
                                                                                  We are currently keeping and raising 500 Koi of about 15cm to 20cm
                                                                                  in length in about 4000 Liters of Water in a 3 Meter Porte Pool. Our
                                                                                  filter consist of a 200 Liter Plastic Drum with Gravel " VERY FINE
                                                                                  STONES " , Sand and Filter-wool. A Water rotation of about 1000
                                                                                  Liters per Hour. The Water condition stays very good and we Changed
                                                                                  a third of the Water every three Months, and with a 25% to 30%
                                                                                  growth rate in 45 Day's.
                                                                                  We have the best-controlled system available. Our Products really
                                                                                  performs Miraculously in the Industrial, Agricultural, Aqua Cultural
                                                                                  and Natural water Industries. We can radically change the force of
                                                                                  the Fish Farming Industries and would like to be able to Proof these
                                                                                  facts for you to see.
                                                                                  Our Treatments is a Natural flocculent that bind all the TSS " Total
                                                                                  Suspended Solids " down into the anaerobic state and Penetrate, the
                                                                                  organical Waste Products and stop the rotting process and neutralize
                                                                                  the gas Production " Ammonia ". We also made a test with a Type of
                                                                                  salad Green " Lettuce " leaves for Breeding snails. It stayed crispy
                                                                                  in the Treated Water for 2 Months without rotting.
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9215 From: paul helms Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums
                                                                                  what country are you in? if it is china, whynot clean
                                                                                  up the water ways like the yellow river? and if your
                                                                                  company is so successful, why is there any polution
                                                                                  occur in the world today?
                                                                                  --- Marius Gaybba <sawatergeni@...> wrote:
                                                                                  > Hi Norman
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Maybe I should lay it out more clearly.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Since the 15 of January 2005.We received a contract
                                                                                  > from The Western Cape local government to start
                                                                                  > Uplifting Projects.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > The first Project was to start Aquaculture Farming
                                                                                  > projects.We agreed with the local Government that We
                                                                                  > should start a Koi Breeding operation first " Which
                                                                                  > Local Government will invest the Money for the
                                                                                  > Koi's." Then because We achieve such a fast Growing
                                                                                  > rate with Our Products We will be able to sell the
                                                                                  > Fish to Our local Pet Shop Industry.That money in
                                                                                  > return will then be used to start buying Land near
                                                                                  > to Storm Water Dams which We will also treat with
                                                                                  > Our Treatments and that water will then be pumped
                                                                                  > out in to smaller Dams where We will be Breeding
                                                                                  > Carb and Trout fish for the local communities.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > This fish will then be for the Local communities for
                                                                                  > sustainability projects and human consumption.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I hope that clears it up for You.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Thank You
                                                                                  > Marius
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > "Norman. S. Hampson." <normnam2000@...> wrote:
                                                                                  > Further to my last message.
                                                                                  > I've been doing a little
                                                                                  > checking and I'm very puzzled to say the least, you
                                                                                  > claim to be a senior executive of a company in the
                                                                                  > fish industry supposedly trying to run projects to
                                                                                  > raise fish to feed starving people, you also claim
                                                                                  > to
                                                                                  > be fish importers and exporters yet you are asking
                                                                                  > private hobbyists for information you should already
                                                                                  > know or know were to get. You are associating Koi
                                                                                  > with
                                                                                  > your project! Koi are not a source of food for the
                                                                                  > poor as anybody with a little knowledge of them
                                                                                  > would
                                                                                  > know, if only because of the costs and slow growth
                                                                                  > rate.
                                                                                  > What kind of scam are
                                                                                  > you
                                                                                  > trying to pull here!!??
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > --- "Marius E. Gaybba" <sawatergeni@...>
                                                                                  > wrote:
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > Hi Guys
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > I need some help from You guys today.
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > Do any of Our Members know any Koi Fish Exporters
                                                                                  > in
                                                                                  > > Taiwan,
                                                                                  > > Malaysia or Japan.
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > I need to Import about 1000 A+ and AA Grade 10 to
                                                                                  > > 15cm Mix Koi's for
                                                                                  > > Our Project in Cape Town.
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > I would really appreciate the Help.
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > Thank You
                                                                                  > > Marius
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Send instant messages to your online friends
                                                                                  > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                  > replying, thanks
                                                                                  > .
                                                                                  > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                  > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                  > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                  > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                  > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                  > matter
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
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                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > LIFE GIVING ENTERPRISES:
                                                                                  > The only Organic Solution to Save Our Planet.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  http://www.alibaba.com/bin/company/goto/10188934.html
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Export Director:
                                                                                  > Marius E. Gaybba
                                                                                  > PH ++27 21 ( 386 4428 ) / ( 387 2702 )
                                                                                  > FAX ++27 21 386 4429 CELL ++27 84 5471576
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9216 From: paul helms Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums
                                                                                  try any fish supplier, 1000 koi is a small number
                                                                                  --- "Marius E. Gaybba" <sawatergeni@...> wrote:
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Hi Guys
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I need some help from You guys today.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Do any of Our Members know any Koi Fish Exporters in
                                                                                  > Taiwan,
                                                                                  > Malaysia or Japan.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I need to Import about 1000 A+ and AA Grade 10 to
                                                                                  > 15cm Mix Koi's for
                                                                                  > Our Project in Cape Town.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I would really appreciate the Help.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Thank You
                                                                                  > Marius
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >



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                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9217 From: paul helms Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling Not Working
                                                                                  here is sound advice, LEAVE THE TANK THE HELL ALONE.
                                                                                  Stop messing with it, let it cycle. had you filled
                                                                                  the tankwith tap water, you would have had sufficient
                                                                                  ammnonia to start your tank. your ammonia levels are
                                                                                  too high to allow bacteria to live. you have made a
                                                                                  toxic environment. you may even be able to cycle the
                                                                                  tank faster with a 100 % water change. it only takes
                                                                                  4-6 weeks to cycle a tank without fish, an the same
                                                                                  amount of time withfish and constant small water
                                                                                  changes.
                                                                                  --- FrankTimJr@... wrote:
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I admit it, I'm just like all the other amature
                                                                                  > aquarium hobbyist
                                                                                  > trying to follow the proper, more humane way of
                                                                                  > cycling a new fish
                                                                                  > tank, but am getting frustrated because I don't see
                                                                                  > any change in the
                                                                                  > levels of ammonia, or the nitrites.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I started cycling 10 days ago, and on the advice
                                                                                  > from a fellow forum
                                                                                  > member (not from here), told me to stop adding
                                                                                  > ammonia once the level
                                                                                  > has peaked. The level peaked on day 4 at 8.0, so I
                                                                                  > stopped adding the
                                                                                  > ammonia for a few days, but then after reading
                                                                                  > several other articles
                                                                                  > on the subject, I decided to just continue to add
                                                                                  > the ammonia and
                                                                                  > just wait and wait and wait until I get a nitrite
                                                                                  > spike.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Well, here is day 10 and still no nitrites. I
                                                                                  > understand this
                                                                                  > fishless cycling method takes a while, but I'm at
                                                                                  > least expecting to
                                                                                  > see a nitrite spike already. (Right?)
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > The pH level has leveled off at 7.2, and the
                                                                                  > cloudiness in the water
                                                                                  > that started on day 4 has gone away almost
                                                                                  > completely now on day 10,
                                                                                  > but sill no nitrites. I've also added two doses of
                                                                                  > "Cycle" which I
                                                                                  > bought at the pet store the day I picked up the
                                                                                  > tank, and I topped the
                                                                                  > water off with treated water when the normal amounts
                                                                                  > evaporate, but I
                                                                                  > haven't changed any water yet.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Any advice would be most appreciated. If I have to
                                                                                  > just continue to
                                                                                  > wait, then fine, but I just need someone on this
                                                                                  > group of experts to
                                                                                  > tell me that. Most of you seem to know quite a bit
                                                                                  > and help others
                                                                                  > here, so I'm one of those people that needs help.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Thank you in advance.
                                                                                  > Frank
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >



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                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9218 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                  Subject: Re: I hope this will get people of my case.
                                                                                  Hi Marius,

                                                                                  Please allow me to say publicly that I sincerely apologize for my
                                                                                  haste and misjudgment regarding your original post. I was being
                                                                                  insensitive and jumped to conclusions, what we call 'contempt prior
                                                                                  to investigation'. I have learned a valuable lesson thru this
                                                                                  experience and will be more careful as well as aware of the need to
                                                                                  be sensitive from now on.
                                                                                  There are a lot of people in this group from many different
                                                                                  countries, cultures and walks of life. This is a very diverse
                                                                                  community of people who are passionate about their hobby. Tolerance
                                                                                  and patient understanding are necessary to keep things peaceful.
                                                                                  There is no need for Personal attacks; we all have a right to our
                                                                                  own opinions and beliefs.

                                                                                  It seems to be that Mr. Marius E. Gaybba is a dedicated professional
                                                                                  working for a good cause to better his local community and for that
                                                                                  he has my respect and I thank him for being apart of this group.

                                                                                  Sincerly,
                                                                                  Aaron



                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife....
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9219 From: Marius Gaybba Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                  Subject: Re: I hope this will get people of my case.
                                                                                  Hi Aaron.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  I thank You for understanding Aaron.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Here where I live in South Africa Poverty is very Vast.45 % of Our local " Black people are living in little shanties with no Fresh Water or sanitation.
                                                                                  Our local Dams only have 45% Water in it.Most of running rivers have Ecoli in the Water due to the reason that the People use it as there only means of Sanitation.
                                                                                  That is why We started this Program and with the Grace of God We will Win.
                                                                                  We also have a huge influx of other Countries as they think South Africa is the land of " Milk and Honey ".
                                                                                  People have to walk miles to go and fetch 1 x 25Lt of Water." Which is normally done by the Woman as the Men have to leave home to go and Work in Mines.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Me and most of Our group Members can only open a tap to lavish there thirst.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  So thank You for understanding My Fight against the Peoples injustice in this world.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  I would like to thank the Group for understanding My PASSION towards My fellow Humans and Yes We will soon break the Market with Our Organic Water Treatments to assist millions of Poor people around the World.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Thank You
                                                                                  Marius 
                                                                                   
                                                                                   
                                                                                   


                                                                                  "Aaron R. Martin, cmt" <anonymous122899@...> wrote:

                                                                                  Hi Marius,

                                                                                  Please allow me to say publicly that I sincerely apologize for my
                                                                                  haste and misjudgment regarding your original post. I was being
                                                                                  insensitive and jumped to conclusions, what we call 'contempt prior
                                                                                  to investigation'. I have learned a valuable lesson thru this
                                                                                  experience and will be more careful as well as aware of the need to
                                                                                  be sensitive from now on.
                                                                                  There are a lot of people in this group from many different
                                                                                  countries, cultures and walks of life. This is a very diverse
                                                                                  community of people who are passionate about their hobby. Tolerance
                                                                                  and patient understanding are necessary to keep things peaceful.
                                                                                  There is no need for Personal attacks; we all have a right to our
                                                                                  own opinions and beliefs.

                                                                                  It seems to be that Mr. Marius E. Gaybba is a dedicated professional
                                                                                  working for a good cause to better his local community and for that
                                                                                  he has my respect and I thank him for being apart of this group.

                                                                                  Sincerly,
                                                                                  Aaron



                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife....





                                                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                  .
                                                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter





                                                                                  LIFE GIVING ENTERPRISES:
                                                                                  The only Organic Solution to Save Our Planet.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Export Director:
                                                                                  Marius E. Gaybba
                                                                                         PH ++27 21 ( 386 4428 ) / ( 387 2702 )
                                                                                  FAX ++27 21 386 4429      CELL ++27 84 5471576


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                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9220 From: steve@familyszabo.com Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                  Subject: AFM Buys FAMA
                                                                                  Originally, I posted this last night, but, I fumble fingered the address to the
                                                                                  group. So, here it is again:

                                                                                  Just found this out a few hours ago.

                                                                                  On March 10th, Aquarium Fish magazine finalized the purchase of Freshwater and
                                                                                  Marine Aquarium Magazine.

                                                                                  The next issue's cover date will be June 2005, the last was February 2005.
                                                                                  However, this does not ean that FAMA will be missing issues, as the mailing
                                                                                  date for the issue is March 23, and it will be on newsstands April 12. This is
                                                                                  just a cover date change, and all current subscriptions will be extended to
                                                                                  cover the issue date change.

                                                                                  I do have copies of the press release and an information sheet. When I return
                                                                                  home, I'll scan them and make them available to those who wish to have them.
                                                                                  I'll probably upload them to the file area here.

                                                                                  \\Steve//
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9221 From: Norman. S. Hampson. Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                  Subject: Re: I hope this will get people of my case.
                                                                                  Hi Aeron,
                                                                                  Before making posts like this I think you
                                                                                  should do some research you will find he is a one man
                                                                                  band making all kinds of ridiculous claims, he has
                                                                                  fifty different listings on google alone, and if all
                                                                                  his claims for his 'water treatment' product were even
                                                                                  half true he would be a multimillionaire. I must admit
                                                                                  though I can't see the reason for this invasion of our
                                                                                  group, it certainly isn't Koi.
                                                                                  regards,
                                                                                  unclenorm.


                                                                                  --- "Aaron R. Martin, cmt" <anonymous122899@...>
                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Hi Marius,
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Please allow me to say publicly that I sincerely
                                                                                  > apologize for my
                                                                                  > haste and misjudgment regarding your original post.
                                                                                  > I was being
                                                                                  > insensitive and jumped to conclusions, what we call
                                                                                  > 'contempt prior
                                                                                  > to investigation'. I have learned a valuable lesson
                                                                                  > thru this
                                                                                  > experience and will be more careful as well as aware
                                                                                  > of the need to
                                                                                  > be sensitive from now on.
                                                                                  > There are a lot of people in this group from many
                                                                                  > different
                                                                                  > countries, cultures and walks of life. This is a
                                                                                  > very diverse
                                                                                  > community of people who are passionate about their
                                                                                  > hobby. Tolerance
                                                                                  > and patient understanding are necessary to keep
                                                                                  > things peaceful.
                                                                                  > There is no need for Personal attacks; we all have a
                                                                                  > right to our
                                                                                  > own opinions and beliefs.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > It seems to be that Mr. Marius E. Gaybba is a
                                                                                  > dedicated professional
                                                                                  > working for a good cause to better his local
                                                                                  > community and for that
                                                                                  > he has my respect and I thank him for being apart of
                                                                                  > this group.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Sincerly,
                                                                                  > Aaron
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > --- In AquaticLife....
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >

                                                                                  Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9222 From: Eli's Lover Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Organic Aquariums
                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                    Hello Marius,

                                                                                    I used to live in Cape Town (Upper Claremont) and I find your goals to be very admirable. You are right about the African scams, mostly Nigerian but alot of South Africans as well. How are you paying for the stock, LC or T/T wire transfer?

                                                                                    Anyway, try Koi breeders in the Philippines. Better pricing than the other countries you mentioned. If you need any help let me know. I've got contacts over there.

                                                                                    Best,

                                                                                    Denise





                                                                                    <sawatergeni@...>
                                                                                    Re: [AquaticLife] Organic Aquariums
                                                                                    Hi Norman
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Thank You for getting back to Me.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Currently there is a stigma that everyone in Africa are criminals " Scams ".So that makes it very difficult.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Secondly currently Our Rand to US Dollar is quite low and Prices from US and Japan is to high for us to be competitive here on the market.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Our idea is for uplifting of the poor with Koi Breeding Farms so that We can meet the demand for Our local Pet Shop Industry, and when We are successfully We will then go over to Breed Carb and other Edible Fish to provide for the Poor.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I had some replies but I can currently get it still at a lower Price Locally here.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    As You will see in My file under " Life Giving Enterprises " in the group with Our Organic Water Treatments We can get a growth of about 35 to 45% in 45 Day's.That way We will be able to create a good supply on the Local Market.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Thank You
                                                                                    Marius

                                                                                    "Norman. S. Hampson." <normnam2000@...> wrote:
                                                                                    Hi,
                                                                                        I was going to suggest you google 'Koi exporters'
                                                                                    or breeders but I see you have an advert on google !!
                                                                                    what's wrong with the dozens of exporters listed with
                                                                                    your advert ?? and why stipulate only those three
                                                                                    countrys?.
                                                                                    regards,
                                                                                                        unclenorm



                                                                                    --- "Marius E. Gaybba" <sawatergeni@...> wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Hi Guys
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I need some help from You guys today.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Do any of Our Members know any Koi Fish Exporters in
                                                                                    > Taiwan,
                                                                                    > Malaysia or Japan.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I need to Import about 1000 A+ and AA Grade 10 to
                                                                                    > 15cm Mix Koi's for
                                                                                    > Our Project in Cape Town.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I would really appreciate the Help.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Thank You
                                                                                    > Marius
                                                                                    >

                                                                                     
                                                                                    Export Director:
                                                                                    Marius E. Gaybba
                                                                                           PH ++27 21 ( 386 4428 ) / ( 387 2702 )
                                                                                    FAX ++27 21 386 4429      CELL ++27 84 5471576


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                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                    .
                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9223 From: Anne Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                    Subject: Re: new to group/question about betas
                                                                                    Hi Lorie, I'm not a betta expert by anymeans, but I
                                                                                    have several and I don't have any of them in the same
                                                                                    tank. They fight. It's just their nature. Some females
                                                                                    seem to be able to get along together, but mine don't.
                                                                                    I have one male in a 10 gal with some cories, 1 female
                                                                                    sharing a 10 gal. divided with a male, 1 male in a 5
                                                                                    gal with a snail (that went AOL) and a male in a
                                                                                    2.5gal alone. I try to keep their water around
                                                                                    78degrees. I feed mine betta bits and brine shrimp. I
                                                                                    want to try bloodworms but yuck! <g>
                                                                                    I've never tried breeding, but if you search for betta
                                                                                    breeding on the web, you'll find some great sites.
                                                                                    Good luck
                                                                                    Anne

                                                                                    --- Lorie Melburn <nutsaboutnandays@...> wrote:
                                                                                    am new to the group. I just joined. I am wondering if
                                                                                    anyone can help me on betas. I have 2 females and one
                                                                                    male in a 10 gallon heated tank, and there is plenty
                                                                                    of places for the females to hide. But I noticed that
                                                                                    one of the females has part of the tail missing since
                                                                                    I put the male in the tank. Should I be taking


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                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9224 From: Anne Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                    Subject: red fin shark
                                                                                    Just a question. My friend has a 10gal. (cycled) and
                                                                                    is considering adding a young (2-3") red fin shark.
                                                                                    Plans to move the Mollie into a community tank (mine)
                                                                                    prior to adding the shark so that it would have the 10
                                                                                    gal. to itself. Every article I've read about this
                                                                                    fish says it requires a 20gal. but also that it grows
                                                                                    to 5" at maturity. Going on the premise of 1 inch per
                                                                                    gal. would a 10 be ok for this guy? I said I'd put the
                                                                                    question to this group for him.
                                                                                    Thanks
                                                                                    Anne



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                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9225 From: paul helms Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                    Subject: Re: I hope this will get people of my case.
                                                                                    aaron,
                                                                                    while it is nice to try to make this guy feel better,
                                                                                    there is a diffence between sopmeone stating thier
                                                                                    beliefs and make scientific claims with absolutely no
                                                                                    evidence to support said claims. i could claim that i
                                                                                    am the rightful king of america because my family has
                                                                                    been here for 100's of years, and try to make it sound
                                                                                    great, but we have no king. if this guy wants to gain
                                                                                    support and belief, there needs to be some actually
                                                                                    data to back up his fantatsic claims. this is not a
                                                                                    forum for selling a bunch of bs, but a place to learn
                                                                                    and share experiences with aquaculture.
                                                                                    paul
                                                                                    --- "Aaron R. Martin, cmt" <anonymous122899@...>
                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Hi Marius,
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Please allow me to say publicly that I sincerely
                                                                                    > apologize for my
                                                                                    > haste and misjudgment regarding your original post.
                                                                                    > I was being
                                                                                    > insensitive and jumped to conclusions, what we call
                                                                                    > 'contempt prior
                                                                                    > to investigation'. I have learned a valuable lesson
                                                                                    > thru this
                                                                                    > experience and will be more careful as well as aware
                                                                                    > of the need to
                                                                                    > be sensitive from now on.
                                                                                    > There are a lot of people in this group from many
                                                                                    > different
                                                                                    > countries, cultures and walks of life. This is a
                                                                                    > very diverse
                                                                                    > community of people who are passionate about their
                                                                                    > hobby. Tolerance
                                                                                    > and patient understanding are necessary to keep
                                                                                    > things peaceful.
                                                                                    > There is no need for Personal attacks; we all have a
                                                                                    > right to our
                                                                                    > own opinions and beliefs.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > It seems to be that Mr. Marius E. Gaybba is a
                                                                                    > dedicated professional
                                                                                    > working for a good cause to better his local
                                                                                    > community and for that
                                                                                    > he has my respect and I thank him for being apart of
                                                                                    > this group.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Sincerly,
                                                                                    > Aaron
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > --- In AquaticLife....
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >



                                                                                    __________________________________
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                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9226 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                    Subject: Re: AFM Buys FAMA
                                                                                        I think it would be nice if they used one magazine for fw and one for sw, instead of trying to split both.  Since they are going to be publishing two anyway, they might as well split the topics between them. :)
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Patrick
                                                                                    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9227 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling Not Working
                                                                                        I don't think most people have any ammonia in their water, at least I don't.  Leaving plain tap water for me would never get anywhere.  I am sure it works for you out in CA, but here in TN we have to add some ammonia.  I prefer letting the fish do that for me. :) 
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Remember our old debates on this topic? :)
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Patrick
                                                                                     
                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                    here is sound advice, LEAVE THE TANK THE HELL ALONE.
                                                                                    Stop messing with it, let it cycle.  had you filled
                                                                                    the tankwith tap water, you would have had sufficient
                                                                                    ammnonia to start your tank.  your ammonia levels are
                                                                                    too high to allow bacteria to live.  you have made a
                                                                                    toxic environment.  you may even be able to cycle the
                                                                                    tank faster with a 100 % water change.  it only takes
                                                                                    4-6 weeks to cycle a tank without fish, an the same
                                                                                    amount of time withfish and constant small water
                                                                                    changes.
                                                                                    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9228 From: harry perry Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                    Subject: To Aaron, Marius and all.
                                                                                    There seems to be some concern about Aaron's decision to support Marius in this group. Whether the claims are true or not what difference does it make? Has it cost anyone anything?
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Did I miss something? or did I read that this person's goal was to help his fellow man/woman.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    A question. How does self-serving, ego centered posts benifit anyone? I am a proud moderator of this group and I don't remember Aaron appointing anyone as judge or jury.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    How do we know that this is not a case of one man trying to make a difference? E-mails are easy Taking action and doing something is another story.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Harry.  


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                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9229 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                    Subject: Tank cleaning
                                                                                    I was curious to find out how often to clean a 10gallon tank with 3- Mollies and 2-Guppies. I have only had the tank up for 5 days and the water looks little cloudy. 
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Stacey Fish 





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                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9230 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                    Subject: Re: To Aaron, Marius and all.

                                                                                    Well, I may not be experienced in these things, but I do know that there is a very thin line between what is regarded as snake oil and something that works.

                                                                                    I have been using a product called Easylife and looking at what it does, many people regarded it as something that is just a hoax but I just thought about trying it and it does over 50% of the things stated.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I would be interested in these things as if you don’t try new stuff, you will never know if they work or not. My belief however in the concept of transporting bacteria that cycle a tank instantly and things like them is different. If bacteria is not frozen then I have my doubts that it will live long enough to be of any use. But you never know what might come up as mother nature has devised things far beyond what our science can even understand even now.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I would be willing to try them if they are available.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                     


                                                                                    From: harry perry [mailto:harryfisherman@...]
                                                                                    Sent: 20 March 2005 00:57
                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] To Aaron, Marius and all.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    There seems to be some concern about Aaron's decision to support Marius in this group. Whether the claims are true or not what difference does it make? Has it cost anyone anything?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Did I miss something? or did I read that this person's goal was to help his fellow man/woman.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    A question. How does self-serving, ego centered posts benifit anyone? I am a proud moderator of this group and I don't remember Aaron appointing anyone as judge or jury.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    How do we know that this is not a case of one man trying to make a difference? E-mails are easy Taking action and doing something is another story.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Harry.  


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                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                    .
                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9231 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Tank cleaning
                                                                                    Hi Stacey,
                                                                                       I clean my tank at least once a week. Only change about 10 percent of the water. What kind of fileter do you have in your tank? I have a aqua teck filter system in my tank, and it really keeps the water nice and clean. Do you also have a gravel cleaner? If you are over feeding your fish, that will also cloud the water.
                                                                                                                           Lorie

                                                                                    Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:


                                                                                    This is a group for those who wish to come together and  chat with other folks about their interest. They exchange recipies, jokes, animal information, recipies, stories, and good clean chat.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    This is a group for those with all kinds of pets, to come and share pictures and stories.


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                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9232 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Tank cleaning
                                                                                    Hi Stacey,
                                                                                       I clean my tank at least once a week. Only change about 10 percent of the water. What kind of fileter do you have in your tank? I have a aqua teck filter system in my tank, and it really keeps the water nice and clean. Do you also have a gravel cleaner? If you are over feeding your fish, that will also cloud the water.
                                                                                                                           Lorie

                                                                                    Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:


                                                                                    This is a group for those who wish to come together and  chat with other folks about their interest. They exchange recipies, jokes, animal information, recipies, stories, and good clean chat.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    This is a group for those with all kinds of pets, to come and share pictures and stories.


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                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9233 From: harry perry Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                    Subject: Re: To Aaron, Marius and all./To Nim
                                                                                    Snake oil will work if you believe it works. The point I was making was if your going to sell snake oil and the proceeds help other people. not just yourself, go for it.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Harry 

                                                                                    Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                    Well, I may not be experienced in these things, but I do know that there is a very thin line between what is regarded as snake oil and something that works.

                                                                                    I have been using a product called Easylife and looking at what it does, many people regarded it as something that is just a hoax but I just thought about trying it and it does over 50% of the things stated.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I would be interested in these things as if you don�t try new stuff, you will never know if they work or not. My belief however in the concept of transporting bacteria that cycle a tank instantly and things like them is different. If bacteria is not frozen then I have my doubts that it will live long enough to be of any use. But you never know what might come up as mother nature has devised things far beyond what our science can even understand even now.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I would be willing to try them if they are available.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                     


                                                                                    From: harry perry [mailto:harryfisherman@...]
                                                                                    Sent: 20 March 2005 00:57
                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] To Aaron, Marius and all.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    There seems to be some concern about Aaron's decision to support Marius in this group. Whether the claims are true or not what difference does it make? Has it cost anyone anything?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Did I miss something? or did I read that this person's goal was to help his fellow man/woman.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    A question. How does self-serving, ego centered posts benifit anyone? I am a proud moderator of this group and I don't remember Aaron appointing anyone as judge or jury.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    How do we know that this is not a case of one man trying to make a difference? E-mails are easy Taking action and doing something is another story.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Harry.  


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                                                                                    .
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                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9234 From: ronaldhansen2003 Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                    Subject: Free gravel NYC area
                                                                                    I have about 8 gallons of gravel for anyone that wants it. It's 2/3
                                                                                    navy blue and 1/3 sky blue. This is enough to cover 9 square feet to
                                                                                    a depth of 1".

                                                                                    125/135/150 gallon = 9 sq ft
                                                                                    75/90 gallon = 6 sq ft
                                                                                    55 gallon = 4 sq ft

                                                                                    Come pick it up in Staten Island. Either bring two 5 gallon pails, or
                                                                                    take mine and give me $8 so that I can replace them.
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9235 From: Tricia Wilkerson Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                    Subject: ideas for our 29 gal. tank
                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                       
                                                                                       HI!  
                                                                                      I just joined in hopes of getting some ideas for our 29 gal. tank that we were given.  We have decided to wait to set it up since we are planning to move sometime in the next 2-3 mos, but figure that would give us some research time.  
                                                                                      It will be a freshwater.  We are planning to put live plants in it as well since we believe having them would make it look better and hopefully have some added benefits for the inhabitants that will be living there.  The plan so far is at least 1 pleco and 2-3 snails to start.  With plans of 2-3 neons, 3-5 guppies, and we are not sure beyond that what else will be included, although we are going to try and keep the tank as non-aggressive as possible just don't really want to watch "the playground bully scenerio".
                                                                                      Hopefully we can make it an active tank as well as colorful.  We have already started looking at the various fish available at 2 pet stores in our area and have decided that they will be the only 2 places we will use for aquarium related friends and items.  
                                                                                      Is there any good books that we should get that would be good resource and information, preferably on that will be easy to read (hubby does better with the easy reader stuff).  I was also wondering is there a good site or book that might help us with getting ideas as to some of the other inhabitants?
                                                                                      Well that is about it for now.... but I am sure there will be more to come...LOL
                                                                                      Thanks
                                                                                       
                                                                                      MM & MP, '73
                                                                                      Tricia, KG6PNC
                                                                                      Check out my current eBay auctions
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9236 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank
                                                                                      Hi!
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Congratulating on choosing to make your tank a planted one but a pleco will give you trouble. It is herbivorous and eventually and quickly grows up to a foot long and is very much capable of whipping up the substrate and anything inserted into it. It can get to be territorial too and greedy when it comes to food. Otocinclus or the smallest of the ancistrus would be a sounder choice. I think you should decide whether just guppies (which prefer hard water) or just tetras (which prefer soft water). Not only will one eventually get sick once water conditions become optimum for the other, neon tetras can be nippy at times especially if the long-tailed guppies act slow and sickly even if they are not. You won't be able to raise guppy fry with tetras too.
                                                                                      When I was starting in the hobby, thekrib.com was a good site as it has articles and and personal experiences you can use as guidelines when starting up your tank. Of course, you can still post any questions here or look up back-topics.
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Rod

                                                                                      Tricia Wilkerson <trycya@...> wrote:
                                                                                       
                                                                                       HI!  
                                                                                      I just joined in hopes of getting some ideas for our 29 gal. tank that we were given.  We have decided to wait to set it up since we are planning to move sometime in the next 2-3 mos, but figure that would give us some research time.  
                                                                                      It will be a freshwater.  We are planning to put live plants in it as well since we believe having them would make it look better and hopefully have some added benefits for the inhabitants that will be living there.  The plan so far is at least 1 pleco and 2-3 snails to start.  With plans of 2-3 neons, 3-5 guppies, and we are not sure beyond that what else will be included, although we are going to try and keep the tank as non-aggressive as possible just don't really want to watch "the playground bully scenerio".
                                                                                      Hopefully we can make it an active tank as well as colorful.  We have already started looking at the various fish available at 2 pet stores in our area and have decided that they will be the only 2 places we will use for aquarium related friends and items.  
                                                                                      Is there any good books that we should get that would be good resource and information, preferably on that will be easy to read (hubby does better with the easy reader stuff).  I was also wondering is there a good site or book that might help us with getting ideas as to some of the other inhabitants?
                                                                                      Well that is about it for now.... but I am sure there will be more to come...LOL
                                                                                      Thanks
                                                                                       


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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9237 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums
                                                                                      I didn't know the Philippines had a spot in international koi trade...I thought we were only known for tropical marine fishes in the aquarium industry. Right now people here are still crazy over Luo Han and the other highly-esteemed and exotic fishes are taking a backseat to it.
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Rod

                                                                                      Eli's Lover <sandpiper@...> wrote:
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Hello Marius,

                                                                                      I used to live in Cape Town (Upper Claremont) and I find your goals to be very admirable. You are right about the African scams, mostly Nigerian but alot of South Africans as well. How are you paying for the stock, LC or T/T wire transfer?

                                                                                      Anyway, try Koi breeders in the Philippines. Better pricing than the other countries you mentioned. If you need any help let me know. I've got contacts over there.

                                                                                      Best,

                                                                                      Denise







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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9238 From: Aaron Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                      Subject: ancistrus (was - Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank)
                                                                                      Hi,

                                                                                      What are ancistrus?

                                                                                      I'm looking for more types of algae eaters for my planted tank too.

                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rodrigo Jr. Marquez"
                                                                                      <la_rmarquezjr@y...> wrote:
                                                                                      >... the smallest of the ancistrus would be a sounder choice. ...
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9239 From: Aaron Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Luo Han
                                                                                      What are Luo Han?


                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rodrigo Jr. Marquez"
                                                                                      <la_rmarquezjr@y...> wrote:
                                                                                      >... Right now people here are still crazy over Luo Han ....
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9240 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums
                                                                                      Sounds fishy to me. :-) Or maybe Marius didn't do his homework about the growth rates versus costs of ornamental koi. Or maybe he's referring to carp? (which is a poor Asian food fish...why not go for tilapia which is native to Africa?) But I have seen for myself that ornamental koi can be made to grow fast but with expensive feeds and expensive facilities. But koi is not a fish that is for mass-production. It is very selective. Majority of koi fry end up as feeders because of high quality standards, higher than most aquarium fish. You can't break into the koi market just by breeding it en masse. It is most definitely not a low-cost self-reliance home industry. Just my opinion: I can't verify by myself the veracity and feasibility of his plans or claims but maybe Marius should be more careful of the venue he airs it. It may be for a good cause too but it doesn't hold much relevance or credence in a personal hobbyist's site and only makes people like Marius open to doubts on his credibility and intentions...Sorry, Marius, but that's how I see it.
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Rod 
                                                                                       

                                                                                      paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                      what country are you in? if it is china, whynot clean
                                                                                      up the water ways like the yellow river? and if your
                                                                                      company is so successful, why is there any polution
                                                                                      occur in the world today?
                                                                                      --- Marius Gaybba <sawatergeni@...> wrote:
                                                                                      > Hi Norman

                                                                                      > Maybe I should lay it out more clearly.

                                                                                      > Since the 15 of January 2005.We received a contract
                                                                                      > from The Western Cape local government to start
                                                                                      > Uplifting Projects.

                                                                                      > The first Project was to start Aquaculture Farming
                                                                                      > projects.We agreed with the local Government that We
                                                                                      > should start a Koi Breeding operation first " Which
                                                                                      > Local Government will invest the Money for the
                                                                                      > Koi's." Then because We achieve such a fast Growing
                                                                                      > rate with Our Products We will be able to sell the
                                                                                      > Fish to Our local Pet Shop Industry.That money in
                                                                                      > return will then be used to start buying Land near
                                                                                      > to Storm Water Dams which We will also treat with
                                                                                      > Our Treatments and that water will then be pumped
                                                                                      > out in to smaller Dams where We will be Breeding
                                                                                      > Carb and Trout fish for the local communities.

                                                                                      > This fish will then be for the Local communities for
                                                                                      > sustainability projects and human consumption.

                                                                                      > I hope that clears it up for You.

                                                                                      > Thank You
                                                                                      > Marius
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > "Norman. S. Hampson." <normnam2000@...> wrote:
                                                                                      > Further to my last message.
                                                                                      >                            I've been doing a little
                                                                                      > checking and I'm very puzzled to say the least, you
                                                                                      > claim to be a senior executive of a company in the
                                                                                      > fish industry  supposedly trying to run projects to
                                                                                      > raise fish to feed starving people, you also claim
                                                                                      > to
                                                                                      > be fish importers and exporters yet you are asking
                                                                                      > private hobbyists for information you should already
                                                                                      > know or know were to get. You are associating Koi
                                                                                      > with
                                                                                      > your project! Koi are not a source of food for the
                                                                                      > poor as anybody with a little knowledge of them
                                                                                      > would
                                                                                      > know, if only because of the costs and slow growth
                                                                                      > rate.
                                                                                      >                             What kind of scam are
                                                                                      > you
                                                                                      > trying to pull here!!??
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > --- "Marius E. Gaybba" <sawatergeni@...>
                                                                                      > wrote:
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > Hi Guys
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > I need some help from You guys today.
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > Do any of Our Members know any Koi Fish Exporters
                                                                                      > in
                                                                                      > > Taiwan,
                                                                                      > > Malaysia or Japan.
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > I need to Import about 1000 A+ and AA Grade 10 to
                                                                                      > > 15cm Mix Koi's for
                                                                                      > > Our Project in Cape Town.
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > I would really appreciate the Help.
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > Thank You
                                                                                      > > Marius
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Send instant messages to your online friends
                                                                                      > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                      > replying, thanks
                                                                                      > .
                                                                                      > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                      > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                      > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                      > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                      >  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                      > matter
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
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                                                                                      >        PH ++27 21 ( 386 4428 ) / ( 387 2702 )
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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9241 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank
                                                                                      I would stay away from common plecos rubber lips plecos are my favorite smaller tank pleco, followed by bristle nose (anictris sp), but in your size tank 3-4 otolincus or a siamese algae eater (not CHINESE!!!) both do better in a tank your size and don't get huge (otos are only an inch or so) and don't harm live plants.
                                                                                        If you want live plants the most important thing is the amount of light 2-3 watts per gallon at minimum if you want to keep most plants growing. Also important with live plants is gravel you should try to use a specific substrate fluorite or lateralite or eco complete. to make your life easier and simpler you might want to try crypt wendtii, java fern, java moss, and anubias plants all will grow at the lower end of the light spectrum and other than the crypt will grow  without a special substrate  but look especially good tied or stapled to a piece of bog wood the will attach themselves onto the wood eventually and look cool. fry love to hide in java moss so that could save some of those baby guppies. Crypts are a low growing spreading plant that grow in any substrate with OK light.
                                                                                       Regarding your other fish I think you would be fine as long as you didn't expect a lot of baby guppies although guppies do best in harder water and neons do best in softer water they will both do fine at a neutral water also. But unless you want to have baby fish try maybe serpae tetras and neons or something like that and tetras do better in bigger schools 5-7 serpaes and 7-10 neons.
                                                                                       A good set up would be algae eater of choice, 3-4 albino cories (bottom feeder pinkish white), neon's, serpea or guppies lots of color lots of movement. Max fish load.
                                                                                       Do make sure you have good test kits for ammonia, pH, nitrate and nitrite. Also be sure to gradually add fish and find out what we mean by cycling the tank whether you choose to do fishless or with fish know that your tank will do it how to take care of your tank while it does it.
                                                                                         Elaine 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9242 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Luo Han
                                                                                      Luo Han is literally the "Flower Horn" cichlid. A luck seeker's dream fish or a purist's nightmare, whichever you want to look at it. The flower horn is a hybrid of several African cichlid species. It is valued for the size of the bump on its forehead (the "horn"), its finnage and form and body markings (the "flower"), particularly if it has black splotches and breed. The value goes higher if the splotches look like auspicious Chinese characters. It is said, according to feng shui, to bring luck, just like the goldfish and arowanas. It is a large fish and can exceed more than a foot in diameter. Value for the highly selected breeds can reach thousands of dollars a fish and some even speculate on breeding lines.For me, it looks grotesque, but the Luo Han has created a big effect in the aquarium industry over here and many tried to ride the bandwagon, resulting in a flood of low-value fry that are sold as feeders.
                                                                                      Nowadays, just like koi and other astronomically-priced fish (or pet for that matter), respectable Luo Han come with registration papers ascertaining its lineage.
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Rod

                                                                                      Aaron <massagetherapist@...> wrote:

                                                                                      What are Luo Han?


                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rodrigo Jr. Marquez"
                                                                                      <la_rmarquezjr@y...> wrote:
                                                                                      >... Right now people here are still crazy over Luo Han ....


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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9243 From: Aaron Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Sounds fishy to me. :-)
                                                                                      ha ha lol, thats punny

                                                                                      Marius has "left the building"

                                                                                      I thank you all for your feedback and
                                                                                      I apologize for creating such a stir by allowing the "Off Topic"
                                                                                      Material to get thru

                                                                                      Aaron

                                                                                      now on to the fishy stuff as we return you back to our regularly
                                                                                      scheduled program

                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rodrigo Jr. Marquez"
                                                                                      <la_rmarquezjr@y...> wrote:
                                                                                      > Sounds fishy to me. :-) , ...
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9244 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: ancistrus (was - Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank)
                                                                                      Ancistrus are small to medium-sized algae-eating catfish so ugly, you'll either adore them or hate them. Hehehe! Think of a pleco with more personality and a bigger mustache! Another name for ancistrus is the bristlenose catfish and when you see a picture of them, you'll know what I mean. We only have temminckii available in the Philippines and I have raised one myself although I wish the smaller dolichopterus was available. You can try the whiptail loricariids and the paratocinclus too if you can get hold of one. They're sutiable for medium to small planted tanks.
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Rod

                                                                                      Aaron <massagetherapist@...> wrote:

                                                                                      Hi,

                                                                                      What are ancistrus?

                                                                                      I'm looking for more types of algae eaters for my planted tank too.

                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rodrigo Jr. Marquez"
                                                                                      <la_rmarquezjr@y...> wrote:
                                                                                      >... the smallest of the ancistrus would be a sounder choice. ...


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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9245 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: ancistrus (was RE:ideas for our 29 gal. tank)
                                                                                      bristlenose or bushy nose pleco.

                                                                                      scientific name : Ancistrus Plecostomus

                                                                                      max length depends on species obtained most are well under 5"
                                                                                      very good algae eater, usually will not harm plants will eat algae off leaves but not harm plant.

                                                                                      feed  sinking waffers, algae disks, quality flake food.
                                                                                      squash,cucumber,peas(out of shell) make nice treats.


                                                                                      wide color variations available from Black-orange
                                                                                      new species being discovered all the time.

                                                                                      temp range from 60*f- 84*F   make it a nice fish for almost any tank.

                                                                                      very peaceful fish even though males may bully smaller fish when prepearing a nest or guarding eggs.

                                                                                      breeding is done best with a 2 female to one male ratio
                                                                                      provide lots of cave work Male will choose his cave and then entice female in. Eggs are orange in color and very adhesive( sticky ) will hatch in about 5-7 days depending on water conditions. male will guard very well until they are old enough to become free swimming then he kicks them out into the tank ( 30 days old ).

                                                                                      hope this gives you an idea what they are


                                                                                      rob
                                                                                      Indiana
                                                                                      USA














                                                                                      In a message dated 3/19/2005 11:26:17 PM US Eastern Standard Time, massagetherapist@... writes:


                                                                                      Hi,

                                                                                      What are ancistrus?

                                                                                      I'm looking for more types of algae eaters for my planted tank too.


                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9246 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: AFM Buys FAMA

                                                                                      I agree one hundred and fifty thousand percent !!

                                                                                      if i wanted to read about saltwater I'd buy a magazine about saltwater.  I quit buying fish magazines because no matter which one you buy its 90% salt water or goldfish...


                                                                                      rob
                                                                                      Indiana
                                                                                      USa

                                                                                      In a message dated 3/19/2005 7:07:58 PM US Eastern Standard Time, patrickmn1@... writes:




                                                                                          I think it would be nice if they used one magazine for fw and one for sw, instead of trying to split both.  Since they are going to be publishing two anyway, they might as well split the topics between them. :)

                                                                                      Patrick



                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9247 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Luo Han= flowerhorn
                                                                                      as with any hybrid as long as it sells it will be produced.
                                                                                      Look at the blood parrot I see more Dyed  jellybean and blood parrots now in the local fish stores then i ever did before.
                                                                                      Any they sell like hotcakes.... the people buying them don't care if they die in 6 months, they just replace them.  The flowerhorn will come down in price. The culls are not all being fed as feeders they are hitting the world markets. This will cause a giant crash in the High End flower horn indusrty. I know in one of my Local stores they sell Flowerhorns ( culls ) for between $6-$12 USd depending on size.

                                                                                      Grotesque little fish if you ask me..


                                                                                      rob
                                                                                      Indiana
                                                                                      USa






                                                                                      In a message dated 3/20/2005 12:00:58 AM US Eastern Standard Time, la_rmarquezjr@... writes:


                                                                                      Luo Han is literally the "Flower Horn" cichlid. A luck seeker's dream fish or a purist's nightmare, whichever you want to look at it. The flower horn is a hybrid of several African cichlid species. It is valued for the size of the bump on its forehead (the "horn"), its finnage and form and body markings (the "flower"), particularly if it has black splotches and breed. The value goes higher if the splotches look like auspicious Chinese characters. It is said, according to feng shui, to bring luck, just like the goldfish and arowanas. It is a large fish and can exceed more than a foot in diameter. Value for the highly selected breeds can reach thousands of dollars a fish and some even speculate on breeding lines.For me, it looks grotesque, but the Luo Han has created a big effect in the aquarium industry over here and many tried to ride the bandwagon, resulting in a flood of low-value fry that are sold as feeders.


                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9248 From: Aaron Date: 3/19/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: red fin shark
                                                                                      It may just need more space if it is a faster swimmer

                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Anne <md_gustoby@y...> wrote:
                                                                                      > ... a young (2-3") red fin shark.
                                                                                      >... it would have the 10
                                                                                      > gal. to itself. Every article I've read about this
                                                                                      > fish says it requires a 20gal. but also that it grows
                                                                                      > to 5" at maturity. Going on the premise of 1 inch per
                                                                                      > gal. would a 10 be ok for this guy? ..> Thanks
                                                                                      > Anne
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9249 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: feeding
                                                                                      I have 3-Mollies and 2-Guppies in my Tank how  often should I be feeding them?
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Stacey 

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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9250 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: feeding
                                                                                      I feed my fish once a day in the morning before I go to work, than I give them some in the evening. But you don't need to give them alot. I also have a few live plants in the tank. It helps to put more oxegyn in the water.Good luck with your fish.
                                                                                                                        Lorie

                                                                                      Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:


                                                                                      Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                      Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9251 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: feeding
                                                                                      I only have a couple of plants in the tank-they are so high even at Walmart. Thanks.
                                                                                      Stacey 

                                                                                      Lorie Melburn <nutsaboutnandays@...> wrote:
                                                                                      I feed my fish once a day in the morning before I go to work, than I give them some in the evening. But you don't need to give them alot. I also have a few live plants in the tank. It helps to put more oxegyn in the water.Good luck with your fish.
                                                                                                                        Lorie

                                                                                      Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:


                                                                                      Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                      Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                      .
                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9252 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: feeding
                                                                                      Also take a look in the photo section of this group. It will help you see what kind of plants to get for a 10 gallon tank. There are alot of great pictures there for tank set ups. It will help you alot. Also, it is good to have an algie eater. They help to eat the extra food that the fish don't eat.
                                                                                                                        Lorie

                                                                                      Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:

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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9253 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: feeding
                                                                                      Some of those algae eaters gets big -my sister-in-law had one it got really big. Unless I get a hermit crab or snail I hear they are algaie eaters, too!
                                                                                      Stacey
                                                                                      Lorie Melburn <nutsaboutnandays@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Also take a look in the photo section of this group. It will help you see what kind of plants to get for a 10 gallon tank. There are alot of great pictures there for tank set ups. It will help you alot. Also, it is good to have an algie eater. They help to eat the extra food that the fish don't eat.
                                                                                                                        Lorie

                                                                                      Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:

                                                                                      __________________________________________________
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                                                                                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                      .
                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9254 From: TankGurl Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Tank cleaning
                                                                                      On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 17:05:11 -0800 (PST), Stacey Mallow
                                                                                      <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > I was curious to find out how often to clean a 10gallon tank with 3- Mollies
                                                                                      > and 2-Guppies. I have only had the tank up for 5 days and the water looks
                                                                                      > little cloudy.

                                                                                      I'd give your tank a little more time to cycle and settle. While a
                                                                                      10-20% water change would be benefical, cleaning the tank would not.
                                                                                      Cut back on your feedings if you think you might be overfeeding and
                                                                                      let it be for a while.

                                                                                      Kelly
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9255 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: info on guppy and mollies
                                                                                      I am looking for some information sheets that I can print out on the care,sexing(photos) and breeding of Mollies and Guppies. If anyone knows of good sites and or books that are not too expensive that I can purchase- I am up for suggestions.
                                                                                      Thanks
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Stacey  

                                                                                      __________________________________________________
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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9256 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Luo Han= flowerhorn
                                                                                      In a message dated 3/19/05 10:29:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                                                                                      FortWayneFish@... writes:

                                                                                      << This will cause a giant crash in the High End flower horn indusrty. I know
                                                                                      in one of my Local stores they sell Flowerhorns ( culls ) for between $6-$12
                                                                                      USd depending on size.

                                                                                      Grotesque little fish if you ask me..


                                                                                      rob
                                                                                      Indiana
                                                                                      USa
                                                                                      >>
                                                                                      Hey Rob,
                                                                                      Good insight, the prices out here in California have dropped a lot. The ones
                                                                                      in the stores that are in the hundreds sit in their tanks for a Looooong
                                                                                      time. Why pay so much when you could buy the two fish that make that ugly hybrid
                                                                                      for far cheaper and make your own. Or pick up some stock from a former
                                                                                      enthusiast that bought into the hype and now is just trying to get rid of all of the
                                                                                      fry taking up all the space in his tanks.
                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9257 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Luo Han
                                                                                      In a message dated 3/19/05 9:00:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                                                                                      la_rmarquezjr@... writes:

                                                                                      << he flower horn is a hybrid of several African cichlid species >>
                                                                                      Central or South American I believe.
                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9258 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: AFM Buys FAMA
                                                                                      In a message dated 3/19/05 4:07:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                                                                                      patrickmn1@... writes:

                                                                                      << I think it would be nice if they used one magazine for fw and one for
                                                                                      sw
                                                                                      instead of trying to split both. Since they are going to be publishing two
                                                                                      anyway, they might as well split the topics between them. :)



                                                                                      Patrick >>
                                                                                      Excellent idea Patrick.


                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9259 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Luo Han
                                                                                      Yes, actually Central American, Mike (not to get nit-picky).  Originally the Tri-Mac (trimaculatum) was used, crossed with the Red Devil.  More recently, the Tri-Mac is being crossed both with the Red Terror and also with the Red-Headed Cichlid (Synspilum) to produce other different patterns.  I believe they may now be being crossed with the Blood Parrot, so inadvertantly, I guess you could say South American is indirectly included as the Blood Parrot has Severum in it.  Ray
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9260 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Luo Han
                                                                                      In a message dated 3/20/05 11:44:09 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                                                                                      sevenspringss@... writes:

                                                                                      << Yes, actually Central American, Mike (not to get nit-picky). Originally
                                                                                      the
                                                                                      Tri-Mac (trimaculatum) was used, crossed with the Red Devil. More recently,
                                                                                      the Tri-Mac is being crossed both with the Red Terror and also with the
                                                                                      Red-Headed Cichlid (Synspilum) to produce other different patterns. I
                                                                                      believe they
                                                                                      may now be being crossed with the Blood Parrot, so inadvertantly, I guess
                                                                                      you
                                                                                      could say South American is indirectly included as the Blood Parrot has
                                                                                      Severum
                                                                                      in it. Ray >>
                                                                                      Hi Ray,
                                                                                      Thanks for the correction, not a problem on my end. : )
                                                                                      A store near me is carrying another hybrid with managuense in the mix and
                                                                                      they call it a mana horn, and the darn things look like baby oscars. I am
                                                                                      concerned that they will be confused with non hybrids and ruin the bloodlines of the
                                                                                      oscars as well as other fish.

                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9261 From: Denise Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Sounds fishy to me. :-)
                                                                                      Yes, Marius has left the building....and too bad about the arrogance
                                                                                      of a few people here. I had enough sense to pick up the phone and make
                                                                                      a call to Cape Town City Counsel. Marius was telling the truth. The
                                                                                      Koi are being purchased for a domestic aquaculture project. The
                                                                                      proceeds are being used to clean up the Berg River so that the local
                                                                                      black people in the township can fish in the river again. That is the
                                                                                      connection with feeding people.

                                                                                      Marius didn't make total sense because English is not his native
                                                                                      language...Afrikaans is.

                                                                                      I'll say one thing. I'm an African-American woman and I lived in South
                                                                                      Africa durng the period of apartheid. I met many individuals like
                                                                                      Marius, usually dead by the side of a road with a bullet in the back
                                                                                      of the skull. The penalty at that time for an white Afrikaaner trying
                                                                                      to help black people was summary execution by the SADF. I came across
                                                                                      many bodies.

                                                                                      One other thing, spammers post their spam and then immediately
                                                                                      disappear. The average spammer doesn't stick around for the lynching.
                                                                                      That's the major difference between a real spammer and a well-meaning,
                                                                                      though imperfect human being.

                                                                                      Have a Blessed Day,

                                                                                      Denise



                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron" <massagetherapist@m...>
                                                                                      wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ha ha lol, thats punny
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Marius has "left the building"
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > I thank you all for your feedback and
                                                                                      > I apologize for creating such a stir by allowing the "Off Topic"
                                                                                      > Material to get thru
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Aaron
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > now on to the fishy stuff as we return you back to our regularly
                                                                                      > scheduled program
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rodrigo Jr. Marquez"
                                                                                      > <la_rmarquezjr@y...> wrote:
                                                                                      > > Sounds fishy to me. :-) , ...
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9262 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Using Peat in a Filter - Question
                                                                                      Last night I added some peat fiber to the Fluval filter in a tank that I am getting ready for a school of Cardinal tetras.
                                                                                      Within a very short period the pH dropped from 7.13 to 6.98.  This morning it is back up -- to 7.21!  Can any of
                                                                                      you explain this rebounding for me?  What do I do to get the pH back down?  Will it go back down on its own,
                                                                                      given time?

                                                                                      TIA,

                                                                                      Laura Garcia
                                                                                      --
                                                                                      Signature
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9263 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Sounds fishy to me. :-)
                                                                                      Thank you!! I was beginning to get very irritated by Marius.

                                                                                      Laura Garcia

                                                                                      Aaron wrote:

                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > now on to the fishy stuff as we return you back to our regularly
                                                                                      > scheduled program
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9264 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Luo Han
                                                                                      Hi Mike,  Its a real shame what they do to ruin good fish, as much as it may look attractive.  The Managuense was one of my favorite Cichlids of which I was the first one on the east coast to have bred them when they first came in (late ' 60's -early '' 70's) only after a couple of west coast aquarists bred them.  Its a nice enough fish in its own right -- too bad some people can't leave well enough alone -- all for greed.  I doubt though, that even if the hobbyist confuses them with Oscars, that they will "intermix" with Oscars.  I don't believe these two species will pair up and breed naturally.  These hybrids you see are primarily the result of fish farmers in the far east artificially breeding them by stripping them.  Regards,  Ray
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9265 From: Amalthea Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Luo Han
                                                                                      don't forget that not all of the "jelly bean" cichlids are dyed. some
                                                                                      do have natural coloring, though not the blues and purples and greens
                                                                                      you will see in the store.
                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                      http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                      Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                      On Mar 20, 2005, at 4:26 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote:

                                                                                      > Hi Mike,  Its a real shame what they do to ruin good fish, as much as
                                                                                      > it may look attractive.  
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9266 From: Denise Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: info on guppy and mollies
                                                                                      Males have the typical gonopodium. Females have a triangular fin on
                                                                                      their stomachs, while males have a horizontal fin called the
                                                                                      gonopodium. Also, males have much better coloring. All livebearing
                                                                                      fish including mollies, platies, swordtails, and guppies have this.
                                                                                      go to this website for a example (it's shown in a swordtail, but it's
                                                                                      the same in all livebearing fish):
                                                                                      http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/livebearer_swords/swordtails
                                                                                      .htm#gonopodium
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9267 From: Aaron Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Sounds fishy to me. :-)
                                                                                      Hi Denise,

                                                                                      Thank you very much for educating me on this situation.
                                                                                      I greatly appreciate the information and hope we will all be kinder
                                                                                      in the future.

                                                                                      Aaron

                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Denise" <sandpiper@w...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Yes, Marius has left the building....and too bad about the
                                                                                      arrogance
                                                                                      > of a few people here. I had enough sense to pick up the phone and
                                                                                      make
                                                                                      > a call to Cape Town City Counsel. Marius was telling the truth. The
                                                                                      > Koi are being purchased for a domestic aquaculture project. The
                                                                                      > proceeds are being used to clean up the Berg River so that the
                                                                                      local
                                                                                      > black people in the township can fish in the river again. That is
                                                                                      the
                                                                                      > connection with feeding people.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Marius didn't make total sense because English is not his native
                                                                                      > language...Afrikaans is.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > I'll say one thing. I'm an African-American woman and I lived in
                                                                                      South
                                                                                      > Africa durng the period of apartheid. I met many individuals like
                                                                                      > Marius, usually dead by the side of a road with a bullet in the
                                                                                      back
                                                                                      > of the skull. The penalty at that time for an white Afrikaaner
                                                                                      trying
                                                                                      > to help black people was summary execution by the SADF. I came
                                                                                      across
                                                                                      > many bodies.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > One other thing, spammers post their spam and then immediately
                                                                                      > disappear. The average spammer doesn't stick around for the
                                                                                      lynching.
                                                                                      > That's the major difference between a real spammer and a well-
                                                                                      meaning,
                                                                                      > though imperfect human being.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Have a Blessed Day,
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Denise
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9268 From: Snow Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: New Member
                                                                                      Hi, I am interested in starting an aquarium and joined to learn
                                                                                      before i start. I'd like to have a 20 gallon fresh water tank. I have
                                                                                      had both male and female bettas over the past few years and currently
                                                                                      have a 5 gallon bow tank and a 2 gallon bowl both with bettas. Any
                                                                                      suggestions for easy starter fish?
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9269 From: fastest350z Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New Member
                                                                                      I started my tank with tiger barbs, and there are other varietys of
                                                                                      the fish. they are a good fish to start with. i also have a bala
                                                                                      shark, red tail black shark, gouramis, and some catfish as well. I
                                                                                      will tell you that a 20 gallon tank is probably not the best size to
                                                                                      start with. If at all you can go bigger go bigger. I didnt spend
                                                                                      much more to get a 75 gallon and the benefits are that you can have
                                                                                      more fish. the water chemistry is easier to maintain and over time
                                                                                      you will enjoy a better aquarium with being able to stock 3 times
                                                                                      the fish.








                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Snow" <snowflake0490@y...>
                                                                                      wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Hi, I am interested in starting an aquarium and joined to learn
                                                                                      > before i start. I'd like to have a 20 gallon fresh water tank. I
                                                                                      have
                                                                                      > had both male and female bettas over the past few years and
                                                                                      currently
                                                                                      > have a 5 gallon bow tank and a 2 gallon bowl both with bettas. Any
                                                                                      > suggestions for easy starter fish?
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9270 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Fish has a brown spot?

                                                                                      My blood parrot has a brown spot in his side.  His top and side fins also have brown on the edges.

                                                                                      Anyone know what this is?  It just showed up this morning.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9271 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Fish has a brown spot?
                                                                                          Their natural color is brown for young BPs, so the dye may be fading away.  If that is what it is, they turn orange as they age.  But overnight is a little fast for dye to fade.  Maybe it is stressed or showing night colors?  Just throwing out ideas.  Maybe somebody that knows more about BPs than me will respond?
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Patrick
                                                                                      -------Original Message-------

                                                                                      My blood parrot has a brown spot in his side.  His top and side fins also have brown on the edges.

                                                                                      Anyone know what this is?  It just showed up this morning.

                                                                                      Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9272 From: Steve Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Using Peat in a Filter - Question
                                                                                      Laura,

                                                                                      Changing water chemistry is not as easy as it is always made out to be. When
                                                                                      it comes to pH, it can be very tricky indeed. In a simplistic take, all
                                                                                      water has a natural buffing capacity. This helps maintain the pH of the
                                                                                      water. When you try to decrease the pH, you need to overcome this buffer.
                                                                                      This can be done successfully, but it can also lead to disastrous results.
                                                                                      If the buffer is broken, your pH can plummet, probably to a level far lower
                                                                                      than you wish for your fish.

                                                                                      Using peat is a good method for trying to lower pH. It also adds tannins to
                                                                                      the water which can help with certain species of fish. However, when you are
                                                                                      using peat, do not expect to see immediate results. It can take days for the
                                                                                      water to drop in pH as your test had initially indicated after you had added
                                                                                      the peat. Depending on your brand of test kit, and other water additives,
                                                                                      and your measuring methods, readings given may be variable.

                                                                                      Peat is often used to soften hard water, and the lowering of the pH is just
                                                                                      a bonus. While it is not often seen, hard water can have a low pH and soft
                                                                                      water can have a high pH. Water hardness does not move hand in hand with pH.

                                                                                      This all is just off the top of my head. if you wish a fuller explanation, I
                                                                                      can probably pull together my references to give you something in more
                                                                                      detail as to how this all works. I am pretty much a believer in keeping fish
                                                                                      that will do well in the water you have rather than having to create water
                                                                                      conditions the fish will like.

                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                      From: Laura F. Garcia [mailto:lfigarcia@...]
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 3:55 PM
                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Using Peat in a Filter - Question


                                                                                      Last night I added some peat fiber to the Fluval filter in a tank that I am
                                                                                      getting ready for a school of Cardinal tetras.
                                                                                      Within a very short period the pH dropped from 7.13 to 6.98. This morning
                                                                                      it is back up -- to 7.21! Can any of
                                                                                      you explain this rebounding for me? What do I do to get the pH back down?
                                                                                      Will it go back down on its own,
                                                                                      given time?

                                                                                      TIA,

                                                                                      Laura Garcia
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9273 From: Amalthea Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Fish has a brown spot?
                                                                                      it could be showing some breeding colors, although they are generally
                                                                                      sterile as mules, that doesn't mean they wouldn't have the coloration.
                                                                                      mine has always been orange, and never had any spots, so i can't be
                                                                                      sure.
                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                      Do evil clowns give you a funny feeling? Join us at:
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/puppetterrors/
                                                                                      All the cool kids are doing it....
                                                                                      On Mar 20, 2005, at 10:33 PM, Patrick, American Fish Guy wrote:

                                                                                      >     Their natural color is brown for young BPs, so the dye may be
                                                                                      > fading away.  If that is what it is, they turn orange as they age. 
                                                                                      > But overnight is a little fast for dye to fade.  Maybe it is stressed
                                                                                      > or showing night colors?  Just throwing out ideas.  Maybe somebody
                                                                                      > that knows more about BPs than me will respond?
                                                                                      >  
                                                                                      > Patrick
                                                                                      > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > My blood parrot has a brown spot in his side.  His top and side fins
                                                                                      > also have brown on the edges.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Anyone know what this is?  It just showed up this morning.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > <imstp_emo_en.gif>
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                      > .
                                                                                      > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                      > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                      > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                      > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9274 From: mrfabus Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: snowflake eel question
                                                                                      how often do they eat cause i have yet seen them eat and i want to
                                                                                      make sure Im not doing anything wrong
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9275 From: mrfabus Date: 3/20/2005
                                                                                      Subject: I forgot about the snowflake eels more info
                                                                                      there are 3 snowflake eels and 3 gar pike just so you know when you
                                                                                      answer
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9276 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New Member-Snow
                                                                                      Hi~
                                                                                      My name is Stacey-fairly new also. I was told by several people to start out with something like Danios,Barbs,or even a breeding type is good. I have started out with 3Mollies and 2Guppies(pair) so they are in a 10 gallon tank and doing just great. I love these kinds they are pretty. I hope this helps. Good Luck!
                                                                                      Stacey 

                                                                                      Snow <snowflake0490@...> wrote:

                                                                                      Hi,  I am interested in starting an aquarium and joined to learn
                                                                                      before i start. I'd like to have a 20 gallon fresh water tank. I have
                                                                                      had both male and female bettas over the past few years and currently
                                                                                      have a 5 gallon bow tank and a 2 gallon bowl both with bettas. Any
                                                                                      suggestions for easy starter fish?





                                                                                       



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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9277 From: Steve Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank
                                                                                      Tricia,

                                                                                      What kind of water do you have? What is the pH? What is the hardness? You
                                                                                      should be aware of these things prior to doing your planning, so you can
                                                                                      make the proper choices. I do understand you are moving in a few months,
                                                                                      but, if the move is fairly local, then you can pretty much go on the
                                                                                      assumption that your water in your new home will be similar to that you have
                                                                                      now.

                                                                                      Knowing your local water is important not only for the fish you can
                                                                                      successfully keep, but for the plants you will be able to successfully keep.
                                                                                      Certain plants will do well in harder water, others in softer water. The
                                                                                      same goes for your fish. Now, on the other hand, you can keep both fish and
                                                                                      plants in water that is not ideal for them, and they will survive, but not
                                                                                      thrive.

                                                                                      In a planted tank, I would not keep any suckermouthed fish, except, perhaps
                                                                                      for Otocinclus, and only for algae control, if needed. Presuming your water
                                                                                      is of the soft, acid type, I'd probably go with several Cory catfish. There
                                                                                      are a number of varieties to choose from, and they should be kept in a
                                                                                      group. This would provide for activity in the bottom level of your tank. For
                                                                                      mid water level, a nice school of 6-8 neons, or other small tetras would be
                                                                                      nice. For the upper levels of the water column, hatchet fish may be a nice
                                                                                      choice.

                                                                                      I'd skip the snails for the sake of your plants.

                                                                                      If your water is harder and has a higher pH, I'd make a different selection
                                                                                      of fish.

                                                                                      There are a number of good books out there for you to read. I'd probably
                                                                                      start you off with a copy of the Baensch Aquarium Atlas, Volume 1 (BAA).
                                                                                      (freshwater volumes 1-4 are available--but you really only need Volume 1).
                                                                                      It is normally a $50 book, but you can find it for less, looking around.
                                                                                      Your local used bookstore may have some copies in stock.

                                                                                      The BAA, will give you a quick overview of setting up and maintaining an
                                                                                      aquarium. It has a fairly good section on plants. And, of course, it has an
                                                                                      extensive section on fish.

                                                                                      Another book I really like, though it is somewhat dated now, is the Innes
                                                                                      book--formally know as Exotic Aquarium Fishes, 19th edition revised. William
                                                                                      T. Innes is the author, and he is still highly regarded in the field, though
                                                                                      he died many years ago. There is a very good section on setting up and
                                                                                      maintain aquariums, however, some of the methods have changed over the
                                                                                      years, but all the basics are there. You can only find this book used, and
                                                                                      it can be a challenge to find one in good condition.

                                                                                      The Complete Idiot's Guide to Freshwater Aquariums by Mike Wickham is
                                                                                      another good book. Again, you'll probably need to find this one in a used
                                                                                      bookstore. (Full disclosure: I'll refrain from comments on this one since I
                                                                                      know Mike, and will let others fill you in.). Mike now is starting his own
                                                                                      publishing company, and this book, if not already out, will be again
                                                                                      offered, however it will have a different title.

                                                                                      A good monthly magazine to read would be Aquarium Fish Magazine. It has a
                                                                                      mix of freshwater and marine articles geared to the novice or intermediate
                                                                                      aquarist. Pay particular attention to the various Q&A columns, and don't
                                                                                      ignore the "Fish Kidz" column because you are not a kid. PetsMart and other
                                                                                      stores carry this magazine.

                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                      From: Tricia Wilkerson [mailto:trycya@...]
                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 2:17 PM
                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] ideas for our 29 gal. tank



                                                                                      HI!
                                                                                      I just joined in hopes of getting some ideas for our 29 gal. tank that we
                                                                                      were given. We have decided to wait to set it up since we are planning to
                                                                                      move sometime in the next 2-3 mos, but figure that would give us some
                                                                                      research time.
                                                                                      It will be a freshwater. We are planning to put live plants in it as well
                                                                                      since we believe having them would make it look better and hopefully have
                                                                                      some added benefits for the inhabitants that will be living there. The plan
                                                                                      so far is at least 1 pleco and 2-3 snails to start. With plans of 2-3
                                                                                      neons, 3-5 guppies, and we are not sure beyond that what else will be
                                                                                      included, although we are going to try and keep the tank as non-aggressive
                                                                                      as possible just don't really want to watch "the playground bully scenerio".
                                                                                      Hopefully we can make it an active tank as well as colorful. We have
                                                                                      already started looking at the various fish available at 2 pet stores in our
                                                                                      area and have decided that they will be the only 2 places we will use for
                                                                                      aquarium related friends and items.
                                                                                      Is there any good books that we should get that would be good resource and
                                                                                      information, preferably on that will be easy to read (hubby does better with
                                                                                      the easy reader stuff). I was also wondering is there a good site or book
                                                                                      that might help us with getting ideas as to some of the other inhabitants?
                                                                                      Well that is about it for now.... but I am sure there will be more to
                                                                                      come...LOL
                                                                                      Thanks

                                                                                      MM & MP, '73
                                                                                      Tricia, KG6PNC
                                                                                      Check out my current eBay auctions

                                                                                      http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZleonardQ2dnQ2dtricia



                                                                                      http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZleonardQ2dnQ2dtricia


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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9278 From: Steve Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: AFM Buys FAMA
                                                                                      Further talk with the AFM representative I met this weekend gave me a bit
                                                                                      more information. Apparently Bow Tie, the company that owns fancy
                                                                                      Publications, the publisher of AFM, has not really decided which course to
                                                                                      take with FAMA. They could just leave it alone, or they could turn it into a
                                                                                      marine only magazine, with AFM being the freshwater only mag, or they could
                                                                                      point FAMA to the advanced aquarist, with AFM serving the novice and
                                                                                      intermediate market.

                                                                                      I would favor the advanced intermediate/novice path for the two magazines,
                                                                                      with a fairy equal distribution of FW and marine articles. While I don't
                                                                                      keep marines, I always read the husbandry and how-to type articles for
                                                                                      information that may translate to FW. Many of the advances in the FW side of
                                                                                      the hobby have come fro the marine side, and this could keep one a bit ahead
                                                                                      of the curve.

                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                      From: Patrick, American Fish Guy [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 7:08 PM
                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] AFM Buys FAMA


                                                                                      I think it would be nice if they used one magazine for fw and one for
                                                                                      sw, instead of trying to split both. Since they are going to be publishing
                                                                                      two anyway, they might as well split the topics between them. :)

                                                                                      Patrick




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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9279 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                      Subject: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
                                                                                      Hello,

                                                                                      This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                                      a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the AquaticLife
                                                                                      group.

                                                                                      File : /AFM-FAMA.pdf
                                                                                      Uploaded by : stevesza <steve@...>
                                                                                      Description : AFM Buys FAMA information sheets.

                                                                                      You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/AFM-FAMA.pdf

                                                                                      To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
                                                                                      http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

                                                                                      Regards,

                                                                                      stevesza <steve@...>
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9280 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                      Subject: water tester ?
                                                                                      Where may I buy a water tester kit? Does a place like Walmart have it? What department would it be in? I just want one just to have it on hand.
                                                                                      Stacey 


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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9281 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: water tester ?
                                                                                      If you have a Super Walmart they should have Live tropical fish.( walmart fish are not a good buy )
                                                                                      If they do not sell Fish then it would be around the Pet section. Look for dog food, bird seed, etc ... even though they don't sell fish they should carry fish stuff..

                                                                                      In almost every Walmart I have been in  its on the same corner the pharmacy is located all the way in the back.


                                                                                      rob
                                                                                      Indiana


                                                                                      In a message dated 3/21/2005 9:52:51 AM US Eastern Standard Time, krazy4mypets@... writes:




                                                                                      Where may I buy a water tester kit? Does a place like Walmart have it? What department would it be in? I just want one just to have it on hand.
                                                                                      Stacey


                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9282 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: water tester ?
                                                                                      Oh-no!
                                                                                      I do not want any live fish -I have heard alot of bad things about their fish and just ordered a water tester from Amazon.com. Thanks for the help -I appreciate it.
                                                                                      Stacey 

                                                                                      FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                      If you have a Super Walmart they should have Live tropical fish.( walmart fish are not a good buy )
                                                                                      If they do not sell Fish then it would be around the Pet section. Look for dog food, bird seed, etc ... even though they don't sell fish they should carry fish stuff..

                                                                                      In almost every Walmart I have been in  its on the same corner the pharmacy is located all the way in the back.


                                                                                      rob
                                                                                      Indiana


                                                                                      In a message dated 3/21/2005 9:52:51 AM US Eastern Standard Time, krazy4mypets@... writes:




                                                                                      Where may I buy a water tester kit? Does a place like Walmart have it? What department would it be in? I just want one just to have it on hand.
                                                                                      Stacey




                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                      .
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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9283 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Algae eaters
                                                                                      What are good algae eaters? I have heard snails,hermit crabs,and those that grow too big. Is there any that stay small? I was concerned about them eating my Mollies and Guppies-do they? Sorry for all the ?'s today.
                                                                                      Stacey

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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9284 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Algae eaters
                                                                                      ive had just about all the different kinds of algae eaters out there and I was most impressed with the rubber lipped pleco.. very docile and works hard... Shannon
                                                                                      What are good algae eaters? I have heard snails,hermit crabs,and those that grow too big. Is there any that stay small? I was concerned about them eating my Mollies and Guppies-do they? Sorry for all the ?'s today.
                                                                                      Stacey
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9285 From: shailendra Indulkar Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Hi & Thanks
                                                                                      Hello,

                                                                                      Thanks for the invitation to this group

                                                                                      ManyThanks
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9286 From: shailendra Indulkar Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Sex in fish
                                                                                      Dear Members ,

                                                                                      In nature ,how is sex of youngones decided?,Is it possible to

                                                                                      predetermine / decided the sex of yet to born young -ones?

                                                                                      I wish to conduct a small experiment to get : all male Tilapia .

                                                                                      Could some one suggest a experiment ,materials and method .

                                                                                      Some source of information some good web site are also most welcome

                                                                                      ManyThanks
                                                                                      indulkarshailu@y...
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9287 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: water tester ?
                                                                                      Dunno about it having to be a Super Walmart.  Every Walmart I've ever been to in California has live tropical fish for sale. 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      But you're right, typically not a good buy.  (I say typically as I did get some good female bettas from the one in Corona a couple of times)
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 8:11 AM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] water tester ?

                                                                                      If you have a Super Walmart they should have Live tropical fish.( walmart fish are not a good buy )
                                                                                      If they do not sell Fish then it would be around the Pet section. Look for dog food, bird seed, etc ... even though they don't sell fish they should carry fish stuff..

                                                                                      In almost every Walmart I have been in  its on the same corner the pharmacy is located all the way in the back.


                                                                                      rob
                                                                                      Indiana


                                                                                      In a message dated 3/21/2005 9:52:51 AM US Eastern Standard Time, krazy4mypets@... writes:




                                                                                      Where may I buy a water tester kit? Does a place like Walmart have it? What department would it be in? I just want one just to have it on hand.
                                                                                      Stacey




                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                      .
                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9288 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: water tester ?
                                                                                      Message
                                                                                      The regular Walmart's here in AZ, as far as I've seen on my shopping runs, do not carry live fish, they do sell aquariums, food, supplies.  Only the SuperWalmarts carry fish, but from what I've observed, the tanks are always dirty, and seldom cleaned.  Was not impressed.  My preference is the Mom and Pop tropical fish stores, but they are so far and few in-between.  The closes one to me, even in metro-Phoenix is 15 miles. It's a Pets Inc, and a bit pricey. My favorite is Phoenix Tropical Fish.  It has been there since I purchased my first aquarium in 1981, and probably longer than that.  Wonderful store, large variety, mom and pop owned.  I would love to start one here in Chandler, but it is difficult to determine how much money is involved, without talking to someone who's been there done that, and so far I have not had the time ;(
                                                                                       
                                                                                      --
                                                                                      Chat with you later,
                                                                                      Alan
                                                                                      --
                                                                                      Chandler, Arizona        Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                      http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                      ----- 
                                                                                      *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com. 
                                                                                      *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
                                                                                      *** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening list called "OutGardening".
                                                                                      *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your address. 
                                                                                      *** Check them out at:
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                      *****  Never judge a man by his taglines.
                                                                                       
                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                      From: The Dragon Hunter [mailto:dragon.hunter@...]
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 10:49 AM
                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] water tester ?

                                                                                      Dunno about it having to be a Super Walmart.  Every Walmart I've ever been to in California has live tropical fish for sale. 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      But you're right, typically not a good buy.  (I say typically as I did get some good female bettas from the one in Corona a couple of times)
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 8:11 AM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] water tester ?

                                                                                      If you have a Super Walmart they should have Live tropical fish.( walmart fish are not a good buy )
                                                                                      If they do not sell Fish then it would be around the Pet section. Look for dog food, bird seed, etc ... even though they don't sell fish they should carry fish stuff..

                                                                                      In almost every Walmart I have been in  its on the same corner the pharmacy is located all the way in the back.


                                                                                      rob
                                                                                      Indiana


                                                                                      In a message dated 3/21/2005 9:52:51 AM US Eastern Standard Time, krazy4mypets@... writes:




                                                                                      Where may I buy a water tester kit? Does a place like Walmart have it? What department would it be in? I just want one just to have it on hand.
                                                                                      Stacey




                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                      .
                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter





                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                      .
                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9289 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                      This fish has yet another spot on him as of about 2 hours ago.  His fins have some brown on the edges and now there is a spot on each side of him, dark brown in color. He is normally very orange so I don’t think it’s color changing.  I could really use some help with this.  Even if no one knows what it is, maybe a good online source?  I can’t seem to find anything.

                                                                                      Thanks.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9290 From: Genevieve Floberg Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                      go to www.aquariacentral.com they have all kinds of help in there

                                                                                      Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:

                                                                                      This fish has yet another spot on him as of about 2 hours ago.  His fins have some brown on the edges and now there is a spot on each side of him, dark brown in color. He is normally very orange so I don�t think it�s color changing.  I could really use some help with this.  Even if no one knows what it is, maybe a good online source?  I can�t seem to find anything.

                                                                                      Thanks.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                       

                                                                                       



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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9291 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Using Peat in a Filter - Question
                                                                                      Steve,

                                                                                      Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate the information. If it
                                                                                      is not TOO much trouble for you
                                                                                      to send me more information or links to further info, I would be most
                                                                                      grateful.

                                                                                      Your preference for keeping fish that do well in the water you have is
                                                                                      undoubtedly a wise idea. I have
                                                                                      a "thing" for Cardinals, however. I believe the ones I plan to get are
                                                                                      farm raised, rather than wild,
                                                                                      so hopefully they will be a bit more tolerant of local water chemistry
                                                                                      (well water, hard, somewhat high
                                                                                      pH). Eventually I was hoping to get some wild ones, though. We'll see
                                                                                      how it goes.

                                                                                      I have learned not to mess with so-called "proper pH"-type additives; I
                                                                                      have killed fish using one to
                                                                                      lower my water's pH, even though I followed the directions.

                                                                                      Thanks again for your help. I at least now know why the pH went back
                                                                                      up! I will monitor it
                                                                                      closely over the next week or two. It will be a couple of weeks before
                                                                                      I get the tetras. (Maybe
                                                                                      I should've gone with Congos.) BTW, I have a Pinpoint pH monitor. I
                                                                                      rely on it more than
                                                                                      on my test kit, which I find difficult to interpret.

                                                                                      Cheers,

                                                                                      Laura Garcia

                                                                                      Steve wrote:

                                                                                      > Laura,
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Changing water chemistry is not as easy as it is always made out to
                                                                                      > be. When
                                                                                      > it comes to pH, it can be very tricky indeed. In a simplistic take, all
                                                                                      > water has a natural buffing capacity. This helps maintain the pH of the
                                                                                      > water. When you try to decrease the pH, you need to overcome this buffer.
                                                                                      > This can be done successfully, but it can also lead to disastrous results.
                                                                                      > If the buffer is broken, your pH can plummet, probably to a level far
                                                                                      > lower
                                                                                      > than you wish for your fish.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Using peat is a good method for trying to lower pH. It also adds
                                                                                      > tannins to
                                                                                      > the water which can help with certain species of fish. However, when
                                                                                      > you are
                                                                                      > using peat, do not expect to see immediate results. It can take days
                                                                                      > for the
                                                                                      > water to drop in pH as your test had initially indicated after you had
                                                                                      > added
                                                                                      > the peat. Depending on your brand of test kit, and other water additives,
                                                                                      > and your measuring methods, readings given may be variable.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Peat is often used to soften hard water, and the lowering of the pH is
                                                                                      > just
                                                                                      > a bonus. While it is not often seen, hard water can have a low pH and soft
                                                                                      > water can have a high pH. Water hardness does not move hand in hand
                                                                                      > with pH.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > This all is just off the top of my head. if you wish a fuller
                                                                                      > explanation, I
                                                                                      > can probably pull together my references to give you something in more
                                                                                      > detail as to how this all works. I am pretty much a believer in
                                                                                      > keeping fish
                                                                                      > that will do well in the water you have rather than having to create water
                                                                                      > conditions the fish will like.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > \\Steve//
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9292 From: Tricia Wilkerson Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                      Subject: Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank
                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                        I have no idea.  I am on a well at the present but most likely will be moving back into town, so there will be all those lovely chems that they dump into our water to make it "healthier" for us, but that is a diff. soapbox all together.  I am debating on how specific I want to get with all the testing, ssems like if you watch the physical aspects and behavors of your tank you can keep track of what it needs.  At least that is how my G-ma had always taken care of her planted tank, wish I would have paid more attention to how she took care of hers.  She had snails and guppies, though she chose not to have a sucker fish cause she thought they were a bit ugly and rarely was seen.  I do not even remember any other algae eater other than the snails.  She did not test for pH or anything like that, she had the kits for all that and had said that she tested once and thought that it was an unnecesary task.  Her tank was always thriving and always had tons of fry that would have to be moved to her "nursery" tank for a couple of weeks or so and if she could catch the female in time she would be moved as well until after she had finished birthing. 
                                                                                         
                                                                                        I will have to keep an eye out for these books, sounds like it will be a bit of an adventure on a couple, but who knows what other treasure can be find while hunting.
                                                                                         
                                                                                         
                                                                                        MM & MP, '73
                                                                                        Tricia, KG6PNC
                                                                                         
                                                                                         

                                                                                        Check out my current eBay auctions
                                                                                         
                                                                                         
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        From: Steve
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 5:15 AM
                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ideas for our 29 gal. tank

                                                                                        Tricia,

                                                                                        What kind of water do you have? What is the pH? What is the hardness? You
                                                                                        should be aware of these things prior to doing your planning, so you can
                                                                                        make the proper choices. I do understand you are moving in a few months,
                                                                                        but, if the move is fairly local, then you can pretty much go on the
                                                                                        assumption that your water in your new home will be similar to that you have
                                                                                        now.

                                                                                        Knowing your local water is important not only for the fish you can
                                                                                        successfully keep, but for the plants you will be able to successfully keep.
                                                                                        Certain plants will do well in harder water, others in softer water. The
                                                                                        same goes for your fish. Now, on the other hand, you can keep both fish and
                                                                                        plants in water that is not ideal for them, and they will survive, but not
                                                                                        thrive.

                                                                                        In a planted tank, I would not keep any suckermouthed fish, except, perhaps
                                                                                        for Otocinclus, and only for algae control, if needed. Presuming your water
                                                                                        is of the soft, acid type, I'd probably go with several Cory catfish. There
                                                                                        are a number of varieties to choose from, and they should be kept in a
                                                                                        group. This would provide for activity in the bottom level of your tank. For
                                                                                        mid water level, a nice school of 6-8 neons, or other small tetras would be
                                                                                        nice. For the upper levels of the water column, hatchet fish may be a nice
                                                                                        choice.

                                                                                        I'd skip the snails for the sake of your plants.

                                                                                        If your water is harder and has a higher pH, I'd make a different selection
                                                                                        of fish.

                                                                                        There are a number of good books out there for you to read. I'd probably
                                                                                        start you off with a copy of the Baensch Aquarium Atlas, Volume 1 (BAA).
                                                                                        (freshwater volumes 1-4 are available--but you really only need Volume 1).
                                                                                        It is normally a $50 book, but you can find it for less, looking around.
                                                                                        Your local used bookstore may have some copies in stock.

                                                                                        The BAA, will give you a quick overview of setting up and maintaining an
                                                                                        aquarium. It has a fairly good section on plants. And, of course, it has an
                                                                                        extensive section on fish.

                                                                                        Another book I really like, though it is somewhat dated now, is the Innes
                                                                                        book--formally know as Exotic Aquarium Fishes, 19th edition revised. William
                                                                                        T. Innes is the author, and he is still highly regarded in the field, though
                                                                                        he died many years ago. There is a very good section on setting up and
                                                                                        maintain aquariums, however, some of the methods have changed over the
                                                                                        years, but all the basics are there. You can only find this book used, and
                                                                                        it can be a challenge to find one in good condition.

                                                                                        The Complete Idiot's Guide to Freshwater Aquariums by Mike Wickham is
                                                                                        another good book. Again, you'll probably need to find this one in a used
                                                                                        bookstore. (Full disclosure:  I'll refrain from comments on this one since I
                                                                                        know Mike, and will let others fill you in.). Mike now is starting his own
                                                                                        publishing company, and this book, if not already out, will be again
                                                                                        offered, however it will have a different title.

                                                                                        A good monthly magazine to read would be Aquarium Fish Magazine. It has a
                                                                                        mix of freshwater and marine articles geared to the novice or intermediate
                                                                                        aquarist. Pay particular attention to the various Q&A columns, and don't
                                                                                        ignore the "Fish Kidz" column because you are not a kid. PetsMart and other
                                                                                        stores carry this magazine.

                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9293 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        have you checked the ammonia level? it could be streaking under the
                                                                                        skin from ammonia poisoning.
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                        Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 1:29 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                        > This fish has yet another spot on him as of about 2 hours ago.  His
                                                                                        > fins have some brown on the edges and now there is a spot on each side
                                                                                        > of him, dark brown in color. He is normally very orange so I don’t
                                                                                        > think it’s color changing.  I could really use some help with this. 
                                                                                        > Even if no one knows what it is, maybe a good online source?  I can’t
                                                                                        > seem to find anything.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Thanks.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        > .
                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                        > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
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                                                                                        > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9294 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots/Ammonia

                                                                                        I haven’t checked it today but we just did a partial water change last night and we haven’t had any problems with it lately (we got rid of that giant pleco and all has been fine since.)

                                                                                        I will check it tonight if I don’t find anything out.

                                                                                        Thanks for the heads up.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                         

                                                                                         

                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        Sent:
                                                                                        Monday, March 21, 2005 1:40 PM
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                         

                                                                                        have you checked the ammonia level? it could be streaking under the skin from ammonia poisoning.
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                        Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                        On
                                                                                        Mar 21, 2005 , at 1:29 PM , Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                        This fish has yet another spot on him as of about 2 hours ago.  His fins have some brown on the edges and now there is a spot on each side of him, dark brown in color. He is normally very orange so I don’t think it’s color changing.  I could really use some help with this.  Even if no one knows what it is, maybe a good online source?  I can’t seem to find anything.

                                                                                        Thanks.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                         

                                                                                         


                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9295 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        One of mine developed a spot like you describe except it's rectangular and
                                                                                        black. Also, two of my Silver Dollars just developed a black fringe on
                                                                                        their tails.

                                                                                        I don't think you have anything to worry about. I think it's a mating or
                                                                                        dominance pigmentation. The two Silver Dollars started chasing everyone
                                                                                        off, so they may be preparing to mate.

                                                                                        Have you changed one of these in the past few days:
                                                                                        temperature
                                                                                        PH
                                                                                        light period (amount of time lights are on)
                                                                                        today is the vernal equinox - can the fish see the windows?

                                                                                        Any of these can trigger mating behavior.




                                                                                        Dane & Leslie Moore said:
                                                                                        > This fish has yet another spot on him as of about 2 hours ago. His fins
                                                                                        > have some brown on the edges and now there is a spot on each side of
                                                                                        > him, dark brown in color. He is normally very orange so I don't think
                                                                                        > it's color changing. I could really use some help with this. Even if
                                                                                        > no one knows what it is, maybe a good online source? I can't seem to
                                                                                        > find anything.
                                                                                        > Thanks.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9296 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Algae eaters
                                                                                        take a look at oto cats (otocinclus). they're small, docile & cute, too =)

                                                                                        --- agentscullyeyore@... wrote:

                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > ive had just about all the different kinds of algae eaters out there and I
                                                                                        > was most impressed with the rubber lipped pleco.. very docile and works hard...
                                                                                        > Shannon
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > What are good algae eaters? I have heard snails,hermit crabs,and those that
                                                                                        > grow too big. Is there any that stay small? I was concerned about them eating
                                                                                        > my Mollies and Guppies-do they? Sorry for all the ?'s today.
                                                                                        > Stacey
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >


                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9297 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Algae eaters
                                                                                        They can be real phun watching the person at the LFS get out of the tank as
                                                                                        often they will quickly latch on to the net. Last time I bought some, it
                                                                                        took them a good 15 min. to get me the 5 I wanted. I couldn't help but
                                                                                        laugh s the little buggers would latch on and would not come out of the net.

                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        From: "Valeen Gonzalez" <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                        To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 12:40 PM
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae eaters


                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > take a look at oto cats (otocinclus). they're small, docile & cute, too =)
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > --- agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > ive had just about all the different kinds of algae eaters out there and
                                                                                        I
                                                                                        > > was most impressed with the rubber lipped pleco.. very docile and works
                                                                                        hard...
                                                                                        > > Shannon
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > What are good algae eaters? I have heard snails,hermit crabs,and those
                                                                                        that
                                                                                        > > grow too big. Is there any that stay small? I was concerned about them
                                                                                        eating
                                                                                        > > my Mollies and Guppies-do they? Sorry for all the ?'s today.
                                                                                        > > Stacey
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        > .
                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                        the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                        subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                        in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9298 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Algae eaters
                                                                                        They are clingly little devils =) I had the same thing happen last night when I added 2 different
                                                                                        ones to two different tanks. I couldn't get them off the net and into the tank! But once in the
                                                                                        tank they immediately went to town on the walls of the tanks, the filters, the silk plants,
                                                                                        everything!

                                                                                        --- The Dragon Hunter <dragon.hunter@...> wrote:

                                                                                        > They can be real phun watching the person at the LFS get out of the tank as
                                                                                        > often they will quickly latch on to the net. Last time I bought some, it
                                                                                        > took them a good 15 min. to get me the 5 I wanted. I couldn't help but
                                                                                        > laugh s the little buggers would latch on and would not come out of the net.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        > From: "Valeen Gonzalez" <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                        > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 12:40 PM
                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae eaters
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > take a look at oto cats (otocinclus). they're small, docile & cute, too =)
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > --- agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > ive had just about all the different kinds of algae eaters out there and
                                                                                        > I
                                                                                        > > > was most impressed with the rubber lipped pleco.. very docile and works
                                                                                        > hard...
                                                                                        > > > Shannon
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > What are good algae eaters? I have heard snails,hermit crabs,and those
                                                                                        > that
                                                                                        > > > grow too big. Is there any that stay small? I was concerned about them
                                                                                        > eating
                                                                                        > > > my Mollies and Guppies-do they? Sorry for all the ?'s today.
                                                                                        > > > Stacey
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        > > .
                                                                                        > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >


                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9299 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Tank cleaning
                                                                                        Yeah, you probably don't need to actually clean the tank itself very often, if ever, but water
                                                                                        changes after your tank has cycled are highly recommended. I do water changes, along with water
                                                                                        testing, for all of my tanks (6 gal, 3 gal, 2.5 gal, 2 gal) at least every week or so depending
                                                                                        upon the water params at time of testing.

                                                                                        --- TankGurl <fishgoddess@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 17:05:11 -0800 (PST), Stacey Mallow
                                                                                        > <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > I was curious to find out how often to clean a 10gallon tank with 3- Mollies
                                                                                        > > and 2-Guppies. I have only had the tank up for 5 days and the water looks
                                                                                        > > little cloudy.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I'd give your tank a little more time to cycle and settle. While a
                                                                                        > 10-20% water change would be benefical, cleaning the tank would not.
                                                                                        > Cut back on your feedings if you think you might be overfeeding and
                                                                                        > let it be for a while.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Kelly
                                                                                        >


                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9300 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: feeding
                                                                                        I feed all my fish (I have diff kinds of tetras, an angel, a pleco, some bettas, some cherry barbs
                                                                                        & some ottos -- not all in the same tank lol =) not more than 2 times per day. Once in morning and
                                                                                        once in evening. If you feed more often than that you may risk overfeeding, which can lead to high
                                                                                        levels of ammonia -- very bad for the health of your fish.


                                                                                        --- Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > I have 3-Mollies and 2-Guppies in my Tank how often should I be feeding them?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Stacey
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > __________________________________________________
                                                                                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9301 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Blood Parrots Spot problem not a problem/ 2 week tank question

                                                                                        I found the answer at parrotcichlid.com

                                                                                        There is even a topic to choose from titled “black spots.”  It’s one of 3 things:  high nitrates (will test tonight), stress (can be caused by bad water/high nitrates), or breeding mode.  In our case I’m guessing stress caused y the bully BP or high nitrates.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Apparently this is very common with the blood parrots.  High nitrates tend to make more of a black streaking pattern though so I’m thinking I need to get this bully into his own domain.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Is there some kind of 2-week cloudiness that comes with newly set up tanks?  I think I remember reading something on this but can’t be sure of the timing.  If so, I think my tank is there.  It’s cloudy and light green.  Pretty nasty looking but I’m hoping it’s this temporary thing I read about in another post.  Any idea?

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                         

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9302 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                        Half of the living room is glass doors and they are near these.  That’s so weird. 

                                                                                        The blood parrots are apparently very well known for the personalities.  I have grown SO attached to both of them, even the bully.  He spits out the gravel and completely rearranges everything to his liking.  They are a hoot.  I wouldn’t mind getting another once we get the bigger tank ready.

                                                                                        I just wish they weren’t cross breeds.   I really don’t want to support messing with nature.  Are there any other fish like these that have their own distinct personalities?

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                         

                                                                                         

                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Ron Hansen [mailto:yahoo1@...]
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 2:35 PM
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                         

                                                                                        One of mine developed a spot like you describe except it's rectangular and
                                                                                        black.  Also, two of my Silver Dollars just developed a black fringe on
                                                                                        their tails.

                                                                                        I don't think you have anything to worry about.  I think it's a mating or
                                                                                        dominance pigmentation.  The two Silver Dollars started chasing everyone
                                                                                        off, so they may be preparing to mate.

                                                                                        Have you changed one of these in the past few days:
                                                                                        temperature
                                                                                        PH
                                                                                        light period (amount of time lights are on)
                                                                                        today is the vernal equinox - can the fish see the windows?

                                                                                        Any of these can trigger mating behavior.




                                                                                        Dane & Leslie Moore said:
                                                                                        > This fish has yet another spot on him as of about 2 hours ago.  His fins
                                                                                        > have some brown on the edges and now there is a spot on each side of
                                                                                        > him, dark brown in color. He is normally very orange so I don't think
                                                                                        > it's color changing.  I could really use some help with this.  Even if
                                                                                        > no one knows what it is, maybe a good online source?  I can't seem to
                                                                                        > find anything.
                                                                                        > Thanks.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >




                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        .
                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9303 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: new to group/question about betas
                                                                                        I have heard that you should keep female bettas only in groups of 4 or more to keep down the
                                                                                        aggression. As for keeping the male with the females, I don't think it's a good idea. Males &
                                                                                        females generally shouldn't be in the same tank unless you're breeding them. If one of your girls
                                                                                        has a chunk missing it's a good bet that one of the other bettas has been nipping on her. I'd
                                                                                        separate the male & get 2 more females, or give 1 female to someone else and keep the male &
                                                                                        female in separate tanks from each other.

                                                                                        As for food, I feed my 4 male bettas Hikari Bio-Gold Betta pellets as a staple. They occasionally
                                                                                        get live & frozen brine shrimp as a treat, but not very often, as brine are not very nutritious.
                                                                                        They also occasionally get freeze-dried bloodworms, but again, not very often.

                                                                                        -Valeen

                                                                                        --- Lorie Melburn <nutsaboutnandays@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > Hello everyone,
                                                                                        > I am new to the group. I just joined. I am wondering if anyone can help me on betas. I have
                                                                                        > 2 females and one male in a 10 gallon heated tank, and there is plenty of places for the females
                                                                                        > to hide. But I noticed that one of the females has part of the tail missing since I put the male
                                                                                        > in the tank. Should I be taking the male out of the tank, and for how long?
                                                                                        > What else is good to feed betas besides beta food, and what is the best temperture to keep
                                                                                        > the water at for them. I had read that you shouldn't always keep a male in with the females
                                                                                        > unless they are ready to breed. How do you know when they are ready to breed?
                                                                                        > I also have a clown loach, 2 rosey barbs, and an elgie eater in the tank with the
                                                                                        > betas.I am a new fish owner, so any advice you give me will be helpful.Thanks.
                                                                                        > Lorie
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > ---------------------------------
                                                                                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                        > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9304 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: new to group/question about betas
                                                                                        it really depends on the temperature at which you keep them. lower
                                                                                        temperatures tend to keep aggression in bettas at bay and you can
                                                                                        successfully keep pairs together. it's also highly dependent on the
                                                                                        individual fish's personality.
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                        Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 4:35 PM, Valeen Gonzalez wrote:

                                                                                        > I have heard that you should keep female bettas only in groups of 4 or
                                                                                        > more to keep down the
                                                                                        > aggression. As for keeping the male with the females, I don't think
                                                                                        > it's a good idea. Males &
                                                                                        > females generally shouldn't be in the same tank unless you're
                                                                                        > breeding them. If one of your girls
                                                                                        > has a chunk missing it's a good bet that one of the other bettas has
                                                                                        > been nipping on her. I'd
                                                                                        > separate the male & get 2 more females, or give 1 female to someone
                                                                                        > else and keep the male &
                                                                                        > female in separate tanks from each other.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > As for food, I feed my 4 male bettas Hikari Bio-Gold Betta pellets as
                                                                                        > a staple. They occasionally
                                                                                        > get live & frozen brine shrimp as a treat, but not very often, as
                                                                                        > brine are not very nutritious.
                                                                                        > They also occasionally get freeze-dried bloodworms, but again, not
                                                                                        > very often.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -Valeen
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > --- Lorie Melburn <nutsaboutnandays@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > > Hello everyone,
                                                                                        > >     I am new to the group. I just joined. I am wondering if anyone
                                                                                        > can help me on betas. I have
                                                                                        > > 2 females and one male in a 10 gallon heated tank, and there is
                                                                                        > plenty of places for the females
                                                                                        > > to hide. But I noticed that one of the females has part of the tail
                                                                                        > missing since I put the male
                                                                                        > > in the tank. Should I be taking the male out of the tank, and for
                                                                                        > how long?
                                                                                        > >      What else is good to feed betas besides beta food, and what is
                                                                                        > the best temperture to keep
                                                                                        > > the water at for them. I had read that you shouldn't always keep a
                                                                                        > male in with the females
                                                                                        > > unless they are ready to breed. How do you know when they are ready
                                                                                        > to breed?
                                                                                        > >          I also have a clown loach, 2 rosey barbs, and an elgie
                                                                                        > eater in the tank with the
                                                                                        > > betas.I am a new fish owner, so any advice you give me will be
                                                                                        > helpful.Thanks.
                                                                                        > >                                         Lorie
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >            
                                                                                        > > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9305 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        many fish do, though the issue of "crossbreeds" is a tricky one. many
                                                                                        of the people up in arms against it are typing away at their computers
                                                                                        with poodles and labradors lying at their feet.
                                                                                        most domestic animals are "crossbreeds" and people (peta aside) aren't
                                                                                        often protesting them.
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        Get em' while they're cheap!
                                                                                        Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the
                                                                                        Basement....
                                                                                        http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 4:31 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                        > Half of the living room is glass doors and they are near these. 
                                                                                        > That’s so weird. 
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > The blood parrots are apparently very well known for the
                                                                                        > personalities.  I have grown SO attached to both of them, even the
                                                                                        > bully.  He spits out the gravel and completely rearranges everything
                                                                                        > to his liking.  They are a hoot.  I wouldn’t mind getting another once
                                                                                        > we get the bigger tank ready.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I just wish they weren’t cross breeds.   I really don’t want to
                                                                                        > support messing with nature.  Are there any other fish like these that
                                                                                        > have their own distinct personalities?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        > From: Ron Hansen [mailto:yahoo1@...]
                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 2:35 PM
                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > One of mine developed a spot like you describe except it's rectangular
                                                                                        > and
                                                                                        > black.  Also, two of my Silver Dollars just developed a black fringe on
                                                                                        > their tails.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I don't think you have anything to worry about.  I think it's a mating
                                                                                        > or
                                                                                        > dominance pigmentation.  The two Silver Dollars started chasing
                                                                                        > everyone
                                                                                        > off, so they may be preparing to mate.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Have you changed one of these in the past few days:
                                                                                        > temperature
                                                                                        > PH
                                                                                        > light period (amount of time lights are on)
                                                                                        > today is the vernal equinox - can the fish see the windows?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Any of these can trigger mating behavior.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Dane & Leslie Moore said:
                                                                                        > > This fish has yet another spot on him as of about 2 hours ago.  His
                                                                                        > fins
                                                                                        > > have some brown on the edges and now there is a spot on each side of
                                                                                        > > him, dark brown in color. He is normally very orange so I don't think
                                                                                        > > it's color changing.  I could really use some help with this.  Even
                                                                                        > if
                                                                                        > > no one knows what it is, maybe a good online source?  I can't seem to
                                                                                        > > find anything.
                                                                                        > > Thanks.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9306 From: infomehlb Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Algae eaters
                                                                                        I would have to agree. In my tanks, the otocinclus do an awesome job
                                                                                        of keeping minor algae in check. The otto's can be very delicate
                                                                                        fish in that they are sensitive to water quality and water temp. I
                                                                                        speak from only my own experience. When my water quality suffered so
                                                                                        did my otto's and when the temp jumped up to 86 degrees from a
                                                                                        malfuntioning heater, the otto's activity slowed way down. They are
                                                                                        very inexpensive. You should not have to pay more than $1.70 each.


                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                        <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                        > They are clingly little devils =) I had the same thing happen last
                                                                                        night when I added 2 different
                                                                                        > ones to two different tanks. I couldn't get them off the net and
                                                                                        into the tank! But once in the
                                                                                        > tank they immediately went to town on the walls of the tanks, the
                                                                                        filters, the silk plants,
                                                                                        > everything!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > --- The Dragon Hunter <dragon.hunter@d...> wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > > They can be real phun watching the person at the LFS get out of
                                                                                        the tank as
                                                                                        > > often they will quickly latch on to the net. Last time I bought
                                                                                        some, it
                                                                                        > > took them a good 15 min. to get me the 5 I wanted. I couldn't
                                                                                        help but
                                                                                        > > laugh s the little buggers would latch on and would not come out
                                                                                        of the net.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        > > From: "Valeen Gonzalez" <valeendgonzalez@y...>
                                                                                        > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                        > > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 12:40 PM
                                                                                        > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae eaters
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > take a look at oto cats (otocinclus). they're small, docile &
                                                                                        cute, too =)
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > --- agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                        > > > > ive had just about all the different kinds of algae eaters
                                                                                        out there and
                                                                                        > > I
                                                                                        > > > > was most impressed with the rubber lipped pleco.. very docile
                                                                                        and works
                                                                                        > > hard...
                                                                                        > > > > Shannon
                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                        > > > > What are good algae eaters? I have heard snails,hermit
                                                                                        crabs,and those
                                                                                        > > that
                                                                                        > > > > grow too big. Is there any that stay small? I was concerned
                                                                                        about them
                                                                                        > > eating
                                                                                        > > > > my Mollies and Guppies-do they? Sorry for all the ?'s today.
                                                                                        > > > > Stacey
                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9307 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: new to group/question about betas
                                                                                        Amalthea, what temps do you generally keep your bettas at? I try to keep mine between 76-80. Mine
                                                                                        don't like it lower than 76 and seem to prefer 78-80.

                                                                                        I don't know much about female bettas but from all I've heard it's not good to keep the two
                                                                                        (male-female) together. That's just what I've read, though.

                                                                                        --- Amalthea <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > it really depends on the temperature at which you keep them. lower
                                                                                        > temperatures tend to keep aggression in bettas at bay and you can
                                                                                        > successfully keep pairs together. it's also highly dependent on the
                                                                                        > individual fish's personality.
                                                                                        > amalthea
                                                                                        > http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                        > Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                        > On Mar 21, 2005, at 4:35 PM, Valeen Gonzalez wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > > I have heard that you should keep female bettas only in groups of 4 or
                                                                                        > > more to keep down the
                                                                                        > > aggression. As for keeping the male with the females, I don't think
                                                                                        > > it's a good idea. Males &
                                                                                        > > females generally shouldn't be in the same tank unless you're
                                                                                        > > breeding them. If one of your girls
                                                                                        > > has a chunk missing it's a good bet that one of the other bettas has
                                                                                        > > been nipping on her. I'd
                                                                                        > > separate the male & get 2 more females, or give 1 female to someone
                                                                                        > > else and keep the male &
                                                                                        > > female in separate tanks from each other.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > As for food, I feed my 4 male bettas Hikari Bio-Gold Betta pellets as
                                                                                        > > a staple. They occasionally
                                                                                        > > get live & frozen brine shrimp as a treat, but not very often, as
                                                                                        > > brine are not very nutritious.
                                                                                        > > They also occasionally get freeze-dried bloodworms, but again, not
                                                                                        > > very often.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > -Valeen
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > --- Lorie Melburn <nutsaboutnandays@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > > > Hello everyone,
                                                                                        > > > I am new to the group. I just joined. I am wondering if anyone
                                                                                        > > can help me on betas. I have
                                                                                        > > > 2 females and one male in a 10 gallon heated tank, and there is
                                                                                        > > plenty of places for the females
                                                                                        > > > to hide. But I noticed that one of the females has part of the tail
                                                                                        > > missing since I put the male
                                                                                        > > > in the tank. Should I be taking the male out of the tank, and for
                                                                                        > > how long?
                                                                                        > > > What else is good to feed betas besides beta food, and what is
                                                                                        > > the best temperture to keep
                                                                                        > > > the water at for them. I had read that you shouldn't always keep a
                                                                                        > > male in with the females
                                                                                        > > > unless they are ready to breed. How do you know when they are ready
                                                                                        > > to breed?
                                                                                        > > > I also have a clown loach, 2 rosey barbs, and an elgie
                                                                                        > > eater in the tank with the
                                                                                        > > > betas.I am a new fish owner, so any advice you give me will be
                                                                                        > > helpful.Thanks.
                                                                                        > > > Lorie
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9308 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: new to group/question about betas
                                                                                        well, i tend to keep mine in my 55 gallon tank along with all my other
                                                                                        fish, so the temp is from 76-78 depending on the season (it tends to be
                                                                                        warmer in the winter in the tank from ambient heat in the room) when
                                                                                        kept at 74-76, the aggression generally decreases, though i have had
                                                                                        success keeping males and females together at higher temps. my tank is
                                                                                        planted though, which offers a lot of territories and hiding places and
                                                                                        that can greatly affect the outcome of a match as well.
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                        Don't be Afraid to Scream....
                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 5:27 PM, Valeen Gonzalez wrote:

                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Amalthea, what temps do you generally keep your bettas at? I try to
                                                                                        > keep mine between 76-80. Mine
                                                                                        > don't like it lower than 76 and seem to prefer 78-80.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I don't know much about female bettas but from all I've heard it's not
                                                                                        > good to keep the two
                                                                                        > (male-female) together. That's just what I've read, though.
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9309 From: A J Myers Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: New member:can't sort out my problems
                                                                                        Hello all, I will try to give as much info as i can. I have a 26g
                                                                                        tall tank with 2 rocks, 1 stump, and 2 silk plants. A Tetratec 150
                                                                                        filter and heater combo, air stone bar, and plenty of gravel. It
                                                                                        looks very nice.

                                                                                        I have been fighting with it for a year now. I had a 45g hex 15
                                                                                        years ago that was so over stocked(from the fish breeding with out my
                                                                                        consent)that you couldn't see thru it, that I had no problems with.
                                                                                        I can't get fish to live in the 26g for more than 3 months.

                                                                                        My pleco keeps all surfaces clean of algae, except the bacteria in
                                                                                        the filter that I was told never to clean. After I get it cycled and
                                                                                        all the fish in it, it looks good for a few weeks, then either clouds
                                                                                        up, or turns green. I don't put more than 5 to 7 small fish in it,
                                                                                        and I don't over feed. My last try was a blackmoore and a calico
                                                                                        fantail, with a pleco. They all got to be about 5 inches long and
                                                                                        lasted for about 6 months. The water was crystal clear. I got up
                                                                                        this morning, the water was so green u couldn't see thru it, the
                                                                                        goldfish were floating on the top, and I just saved the pleco. He's
                                                                                        in a bucket till I get home from work.

                                                                                        I plan on doing a complete clean/restart when I get home until it
                                                                                        cycles again. According to my test kit, everything is in the safe
                                                                                        zone. Neutral ph, 0 nitrites, 40ppm nitrates, total alkalinity is 80
                                                                                        (it says ideal is 120), I do have very hard water, like 250 on the
                                                                                        scale, I was told to add Doc Wellfishes sea salt, 1 table spoon per 5
                                                                                        gallons which usually brings it down to 150 or so.

                                                                                        I plan on trying a few cory cats, maybe a dojo loach, and a few
                                                                                        small/med angels or other tropicals this time. Any advice is greatly
                                                                                        appreciated.

                                                                                        Thanks, AJ
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9310 From: TankGurl Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank
                                                                                        On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:26:14 -0800, Tricia Wilkerson
                                                                                        <trycya@...> wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I have no idea. I am on a well at the present but most likely will be
                                                                                        > moving back into town, so there will be all those lovely chems that they
                                                                                        > dump into our water to make it "healthier" for us, but that is a diff.
                                                                                        > soapbox all together. I am debating on how specific I want to get with all
                                                                                        > the testing, ssems like if you watch the physical aspects and behavors of
                                                                                        > your tank you can keep track of what it needs. At least that is how my G-ma
                                                                                        > had always taken care of her planted tank,

                                                                                        It may have been just been pure luck (or prior knowledge) that your
                                                                                        grandmother chose fish that were compatible with her specific water
                                                                                        parameters, so she really had no need to test. I'm guessing she
                                                                                        probably did water changes and the like as well?

                                                                                        There can be wide variences in water parameters geographically....so
                                                                                        I'd at least do some testing to see what it is you're dealing with and
                                                                                        how those results will work with the fish you plan on keeping. For
                                                                                        instance, discus need soft water and a low PH. My tap water would be
                                                                                        perfect for keeping discus...but I keep SA cichlids, so I use a
                                                                                        combination of salt and baking soda to keep my ph at 8.0+. However,
                                                                                        there are many other species of fish that do well in various water
                                                                                        conditions.

                                                                                        Good luck
                                                                                        Kelly
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9311 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Algae eaters
                                                                                        they are also pretty hard to keep.. if you get them to last 2 months you will have them around but no one I know has had luck keeping them past a few weeks... not hardy at all.. Shannon
                                                                                        take a look at oto cats (otocinclus). they're small, docile & cute, too =)
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9312 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Algae eaters
                                                                                        i've done really well with mine, but have only added them to very
                                                                                        established tanks. it also may have to do with the supply.
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                        Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 5:57 PM, agentscullyeyore@... wrote:

                                                                                        > they are also pretty hard to keep.. if you get them to last 2 months
                                                                                        > you will have them around but no one I know has had luck keeping them
                                                                                        > past a few weeks... not hardy at all.. Shannon
                                                                                        > take a look at oto cats (otocinclus). they're small, docile & cute,
                                                                                        > too =)
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        > .
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                                                                                        > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                        > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9313 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Algae eaters
                                                                                        I Have a plec in my tank, and have had it since last summer. They don't eat other fish,and they don't get real big
                                                                                                                                   lorie
                                                                                        agentscullyeyore@... wrote:


                                                                                          
                                                                                         
                                                                                        This is a group for those with all kinds of pets, to come and share pictures and stories.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        This a group for those who love to come and talk about their nandays. To share stories, information, and photos.


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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9314 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        They are sterile, so who cares if they are cross-breeds. Mules and Ligers
                                                                                        are wonderful animals and are the same basic concept.

                                                                                        Yes, Blood Parrots have very social natures. There are other fish that do
                                                                                        too, but you aren't going to want any of them in the same tank.

                                                                                        Oscars have wonderful personalities, but they will grow very large and
                                                                                        will bully the Parrots and will also eat the smaller fish.

                                                                                        On the other end of the spectrum, Paradise fish show many of the same
                                                                                        traits, but they are small and will be bullied or eaten by the parrots.




                                                                                        Dane & Leslie Moore said:
                                                                                        > Half of the living room is glass doors and they are near these. That's
                                                                                        > so weird.
                                                                                        > The blood parrots are apparently very well known for the personalities.
                                                                                        > I have grown SO attached to both of them, even the bully. He spits out
                                                                                        > the gravel and completely rearranges everything to his liking. They are
                                                                                        > a hoot. I wouldn't mind getting another once we get the bigger tank
                                                                                        > ready.
                                                                                        > I just wish they weren't cross breeds. I really don't want to support
                                                                                        > messing with nature. Are there any other fish like these that have
                                                                                        > their own distinct personalities?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        > From: Ron Hansen [mailto:yahoo1@...]
                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 2:35 PM
                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > One of mine developed a spot like you describe except it's rectangular
                                                                                        > and
                                                                                        > black. Also, two of my Silver Dollars just developed a black fringe on
                                                                                        > their tails.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I don't think you have anything to worry about. I think it's a mating
                                                                                        > or
                                                                                        > dominance pigmentation. The two Silver Dollars started chasing everyone
                                                                                        > off, so they may be preparing to mate.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Have you changed one of these in the past few days:
                                                                                        > temperature
                                                                                        > PH
                                                                                        > light period (amount of time lights are on)
                                                                                        > today is the vernal equinox - can the fish see the windows?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Any of these can trigger mating behavior.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Dane & Leslie Moore said:
                                                                                        >> This fish has yet another spot on him as of about 2 hours ago. His
                                                                                        > fins
                                                                                        >> have some brown on the edges and now there is a spot on each side of
                                                                                        >> him, dark brown in color. He is normally very orange so I don't think
                                                                                        >> it's color changing. I could really use some help with this. Even if
                                                                                        >> no one knows what it is, maybe a good online source? I can't seem to
                                                                                        >> find anything.
                                                                                        >> Thanks.
                                                                                        >>
                                                                                        >> Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >>
                                                                                        >>
                                                                                        >>
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        > .
                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important
                                                                                        > to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                        > the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                        > Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9315 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: confused
                                                                                        Okay ~
                                                                                        I am confused. What is the difference between the Otocinclus and the Pleco. Are they both the same price(about how much).Do I need to feed these extra food or do they just feed off what is in the tank. Sorry for the stupidity ?'s. Is there a Website that has info on these and photos,too.
                                                                                        Stacey


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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9316 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank
                                                                                        Browsing through my email for this Forum, something hit me like a ton
                                                                                        of bricks. Noticed below you keep SA Cichlids. This may be a
                                                                                        strange question, but can I assume by "SA" you mean South American?
                                                                                        If so, why would you want to keep them at a pH of 8.0+, with the
                                                                                        addition of salt? These conditions would be ideal for African Malawi
                                                                                        Cichlids, but most South American Cichlids (especially those east of
                                                                                        the Andies), including Discus as you've mentioned, prefer soft acid
                                                                                        water. By some chance they may survive in those extremes (for them),
                                                                                        but its doubtful that they will thrive as they would in water closer
                                                                                        to their liking. I'd suggest you re-think your strategy. Ray
                                                                                        \
                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, On Mon. 21 Mar 2005 17:33:07,
                                                                                        Tank Gurl < fishgoddess@... > wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > There can be wide variences in water parameters geographically....so
                                                                                        > I'd at least do some testing to see what it is you're dealing with
                                                                                        and
                                                                                        > how those results will work with the fish you plan on keeping. For
                                                                                        > instance, discus need soft water and a low PH. My tap water would be
                                                                                        > perfect for keeping discus...but I keep SA cichlids, so I use a
                                                                                        > combination of salt and baking soda to keep my ph at 8.0+. However,
                                                                                        > there are many other species of fish that do well in various water
                                                                                        > conditions.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Good luck
                                                                                        > Kelly
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9317 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: confused
                                                                                        the ottos are very small.. and in my opinion are not very hardy they need some food like algae wafer.. as well does a pleco.. a pleco is much bigger but wont exceed 3 inches and are very calm... when I first got mine I thought I wouldn't like it it was so ugly but it so grew on me.. I feed it an algae pellet every other day or so.. very low matience... the pleco is much more expensive I paid 5 bucks for mine and like 2 for the ottos... I will never again get ottos cause they just don't do much and are so small I hate having to pay so much attention making sure they are still alive the pleco is no trouble at all.. Shannon
                                                                                        Okay ~
                                                                                        I am confused. What is the difference between the Otocinclus and the Pleco. Are they both the same price(about how much).Do I need to feed these extra food or do they just feed off what is in the tank. Sorry for the stupidity ?'s. Is there a Website that has info on these and photos,too.
                                                                                        Stacey
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9318 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: confused
                                                                                        If you buy the plec when it is small, you can pick it up for a few dollars here. Depends on where you go. I know you don't like Wal-Mart Stacy, but they sell baby plecos cheaper than the full grown ones. Here, the full grown plecos are around $5. The baby ones are Are around a few dollars.
                                                                                                                                           Lorie

                                                                                        agentscullyeyore@... wrote:


                                                                                          
                                                                                         
                                                                                        This is a group for those with all kinds of pets, to come and share pictures and stories.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        This a group for those who love to come and talk about their nandays. To share stories, information, and photos.


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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9319 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                        I have a poodle who lays at my feet…I’m missing the correlation.?

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                         

                                                                                         

                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 3:44 PM
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                         

                                                                                        many fish do, though the issue of "crossbreeds" is a tricky one. many of the people up in arms against it are typing away at their computers with poodles and labradors lying at their feet.
                                                                                        most domestic animals are "crossbreeds" and people (peta aside) aren't often protesting them.
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        Get em' while they're cheap!
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                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 4:31 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                        Half of the living room is glass doors and they are near these.  That’s so weird. 

                                                                                        The blood parrots are apparently very well known for the personalities.  I have grown SO attached to both of them, even the bully.  He spits out the gravel and completely rearranges everything to his liking.  They are a hoot.  I wouldn’t mind getting another once we get the bigger tank ready.

                                                                                        I just wish they weren’t cross breeds.   I really don’t want to support messing with nature.  Are there any other fish like these that have their own distinct personalities?

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                         

                                                                                         

                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Ron Hansen [mailto:yahoo1@...]
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 2:35 PM
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                         

                                                                                        One of mine developed a spot like you describe except it's rectangular and
                                                                                        black.  Also, two of my Silver Dollars just developed a black fringe on
                                                                                        their tails.

                                                                                        I don't think you have anything to worry about.  I think it's a mating or
                                                                                        dominance pigmentation.  The two Silver Dollars started chasing everyone
                                                                                        off, so they may be preparing to mate.

                                                                                        Have you changed one of these in the past few days:
                                                                                        temperature
                                                                                        PH
                                                                                        light period (amount of time lights are on)
                                                                                        today is the vernal equinox - can the fish see the windows?

                                                                                        Any of these can trigger mating behavior.




                                                                                        Dane & Leslie Moore said:
                                                                                        > This fish has yet another spot on him as of about 2 hours ago.  His fins
                                                                                        > have some brown on the edges and now there is a spot on each side of
                                                                                        > him, dark brown in color. He is normally very orange so I don't think
                                                                                        > it's color changing.  I could really use some help with this.  Even if
                                                                                        > no one knows what it is, maybe a good online source?  I can't seem to
                                                                                        > find anything.
                                                                                        > Thanks.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >




                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        .
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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9320 From: Karima Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Algae eaters
                                                                                        How big is yours?  My Bristol Nose Pleco (at least that is what it looks like) seems to have doubled in size in the two months since I got him.  How big will he get?  I have a 50 gallon tank.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        I will say he is an excellent garbage collector . . . keeps the tank real clean except for the very long poops that he decorates the plants with.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        He is very docile with the other fish and never bothers them, not even the babies that are in the tank.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        ~Karima
                                                                                         
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 5:05 PM
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae eaters

                                                                                        I Have a plec in my tank, and have had it since last summer. They don't eat other fish,and they don't get real big
                                                                                                                                   lorie
                                                                                        agentscullyeyore@... wrote:


                                                                                          



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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9321 From: sue_s32134 Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: New member question
                                                                                        Hi, new member here. I have a question about one of my neon tetras.
                                                                                        He started swimming very jerky and pulls to one side while
                                                                                        swimming. There are no other visable signs like ich or sores on him
                                                                                        and no stressful goings on in the tank. I thought I would lose him
                                                                                        last week after it started but he is still hanging in there. I was
                                                                                        also worried about other fish in tank getting the same affliction
                                                                                        but it has been a week and no others show any signs of ill health.
                                                                                        Can anyone tell me what has happened to him and any cures for this?

                                                                                        I have a 20 gal fresh water tank with all tetras. Six neons, one
                                                                                        long fin black tetra, one reg fin black tetra, one long fin white
                                                                                        tetra and one reg fin white tetra , 3 penguin tetras (I think that
                                                                                        is what they were called), 2 black neon tetras, and one blue and one
                                                                                        pink reg fin tetra (I think they are dyed). I got them when I first
                                                                                        set up my tank but since then have had miss-givings about bying dyed
                                                                                        fish. Could anyone explain the process is it acceptable practice
                                                                                        among this group?

                                                                                        TIA for info,
                                                                                        Sue
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9322 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Hello everyone
                                                                                        Hello

                                                                                        so here's something about myself i am a 21 year old
                                                                                        Student studying IT and well my hobby is as all of you
                                                                                        have guessed fish! I live in Malta and i am a member
                                                                                        of the Malta Aquarist society! I have been keeping
                                                                                        fish for the last 11 years now and i know some stuff
                                                                                        about them!!
                                                                                        At the moment in my tanks i have malawi cichlids,
                                                                                        tilapia balloon mollies, haplos, skunk loaches,
                                                                                        pakistani loaches, upside down catfish, the real
                                                                                        upside down catfish, kuhli loaches, dwarf Gouramis,
                                                                                        leopard danios and apple snails. At the moment i am so
                                                                                        short of fish becuase i had a major disaster as my
                                                                                        accidentally toxic chemicals (a whole bottle of
                                                                                        Kitchen cleaner detergent) fell in my filter tank that
                                                                                        provides water to the tanks. I lost more than 200 fish
                                                                                        in less than a day and well i had a whole disaster! I
                                                                                        had to leave the tanks outside for all January and
                                                                                        February in the rain and sun so that they are
                                                                                        thoroughly cleaned and i dumped my filtration system
                                                                                        and made an individual tank system! i lost alot really
                                                                                        alot!! bettas, dwarf cichlids, kribs, loaches,
                                                                                        Gouramis, minnows, puffers, and many many other! but
                                                                                        life must go on!!
                                                                                        So that's practically me and what is left from my
                                                                                        fish! but i will soon start again i need to fill my
                                                                                        tanks!!

                                                                                        Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                        MALTA

                                                                                        Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9323 From: Karima Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: confused
                                                                                        Talk about being confused . . . how big does the common pleco get? 
                                                                                         
                                                                                        I have what I would think is a common one.  Purchased it at a fish store for $4.00. 
                                                                                         
                                                                                        I would really like to understand this size thing before I end up with a monster in my tank.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Karima
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 6:13 PM
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] confused

                                                                                        the ottos are very small.. and in my opinion are not very hardy they need some food like algae wafer.. as well does a pleco.. a pleco is much bigger but wont exceed 3 inches and are very calm... when I first got mine I thought I wouldn't like it it was so ugly but it so grew on me.. I feed it an algae pellet every other day or so.. very low matience... the pleco is much more expensive I paid 5 bucks for mine and like 2 for the ottos... I will never again get ottos cause they just don't do much and are so small I hate having to pay so much attention making sure they are still alive the pleco is no trouble at all.. Shannon
                                                                                        Okay ~
                                                                                        I am confused. What is the difference between the Otocinclus and the Pleco. Are they both the same price(about how much).Do I need to feed these extra food or do they just feed off what is in the tank. Sorry for the stupidity ?'s. Is there a Website that has info on these and photos,too.
                                                                                        Stacey
                                                                                         


                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        .
                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter






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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9324 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        I breed bubblegum cichlids, and they have very similar individual
                                                                                        personalities to the blood parrots, but do not grow as large. If anyone
                                                                                        on the group is interested in them and would like to pay for only the
                                                                                        shipping (or can pick them up) I have a few that are ready to go right
                                                                                        now!
                                                                                        amalthea
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                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 6:09 PM, Ron Hansen wrote:

                                                                                        > They are sterile, so who cares if they are cross-breeds.  Mules and
                                                                                        > Ligers
                                                                                        > are wonderful animals and are the same basic concept.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Yes, Blood Parrots have very social natures.  There are other fish
                                                                                        > that do
                                                                                        > too, but you aren't going to want any of them in the same tank.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Oscars have wonderful personalities, but they will grow very large and
                                                                                        > will bully the Parrots and will also eat the smaller fish.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > On the other end of the spectrum, Paradise fish show many of the same
                                                                                        > traits, but they are small and will be bullied or eaten by the
                                                                                        > parrots.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Dane & Leslie Moore said:
                                                                                        > > Half of the living room is glass doors and they are near these. 
                                                                                        > That's
                                                                                        > > so weird.
                                                                                        > > The blood parrots are apparently very well known for the
                                                                                        > personalities.
                                                                                        > > I have grown SO attached to both of them, even the bully.  He spits
                                                                                        > out
                                                                                        > > the gravel and completely rearranges everything to his liking. 
                                                                                        > They are
                                                                                        > > a hoot.  I wouldn't mind getting another once we get the bigger tank
                                                                                        > > ready.
                                                                                        > > I just wish they weren't cross breeds.   I really don't want to
                                                                                        > support
                                                                                        > > messing with nature.  Are there any other fish like these that have
                                                                                        > > their own distinct personalities?
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        > > From: Ron Hansen [mailto:yahoo1@...]
                                                                                        > > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 2:35 PM
                                                                                        > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > One of mine developed a spot like you describe except it's
                                                                                        > rectangular
                                                                                        > > and
                                                                                        > > black.  Also, two of my Silver Dollars just developed a black
                                                                                        > fringe on
                                                                                        > > their tails.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > I don't think you have anything to worry about.  I think it's a
                                                                                        > mating
                                                                                        > > or
                                                                                        > > dominance pigmentation.  The two Silver Dollars started chasing
                                                                                        > everyone
                                                                                        > > off, so they may be preparing to mate.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Have you changed one of these in the past few days:
                                                                                        > > temperature
                                                                                        > > PH
                                                                                        > > light period (amount of time lights are on)
                                                                                        > > today is the vernal equinox - can the fish see the windows?
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Any of these can trigger mating behavior.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Dane & Leslie Moore said:
                                                                                        > >> This fish has yet another spot on him as of about 2 hours ago.  His
                                                                                        > > fins
                                                                                        > >> have some brown on the edges and now there is a spot on each side
                                                                                        > of
                                                                                        > >> him, dark brown in color. He is normally very orange so I don't
                                                                                        > think
                                                                                        > >> it's color changing.  I could really use some help with this. 
                                                                                        > Even if
                                                                                        > >> no one knows what it is, maybe a good online source?  I can't seem
                                                                                        > to
                                                                                        > >> find anything.
                                                                                        > >> Thanks.
                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                        > >> Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                        > thanks
                                                                                        > > .
                                                                                        > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                        > important
                                                                                        > > to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                        > modify
                                                                                        > > the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we
                                                                                        > > Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
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                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9325 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        the point is only that the poodle is also a crossbreed (note the lack
                                                                                        of wild poodles on the serengeti plains...
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        Get em' while they're cheap!
                                                                                        Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the
                                                                                        Basement....
                                                                                        http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 7:46 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                        > I have a poodle who lays at my feet…I’m missing the correlation.?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        > From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 3:44 PM
                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9326 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                        Lol

                                                                                        And people wonder why aquariums are such an art!?

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                         

                                                                                         

                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Ron Hansen [mailto:yahoo1@...]
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 5:10 PM
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                         

                                                                                        They are sterile, so who cares if they are cross-breeds.  Mules and Ligers
                                                                                        are wonderful animals and are the same basic concept.

                                                                                        Yes, Blood Parrots have very social natures.  There are other fish that do
                                                                                        too, but you aren't going to want any of them in the same tank.

                                                                                        Oscars have wonderful personalities, but they will grow very large and
                                                                                        will bully the Parrots and will also eat the smaller fish.

                                                                                        On the other end of the spectrum, Paradise fish show many of the same
                                                                                        traits, but they are small and will be bullied or eaten by the parrots.




                                                                                        Dane & Leslie Moore said:
                                                                                        > Half of the living room is glass doors and they are near these.  That's
                                                                                        > so weird.
                                                                                        > The blood parrots are apparently very well known for the personalities.
                                                                                        > I have grown SO attached to both of them, even the bully.  He spits out
                                                                                        > the gravel and completely rearranges everything to his liking.  They are
                                                                                        > a hoot.  I wouldn't mind getting another once we get the bigger tank
                                                                                        > ready.
                                                                                        > I just wish they weren't cross breeds.   I really don't want to support
                                                                                        > messing with nature.  Are there any other fish like these that have
                                                                                        > their own distinct personalities?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        > From: Ron Hansen [mailto:yahoo1@...]
                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 2:35 PM
                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > One of mine developed a spot like you describe except it's rectangular
                                                                                        > and
                                                                                        > black.  Also, two of my Silver Dollars just developed a black fringe on
                                                                                        > their tails.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I don't think you have anything to worry about.  I think it's a mating
                                                                                        > or
                                                                                        > dominance pigmentation.  The two Silver Dollars started chasing everyone
                                                                                        > off, so they may be preparing to mate.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Have you changed one of these in the past few days:
                                                                                        > temperature
                                                                                        > PH
                                                                                        > light period (amount of time lights are on)
                                                                                        > today is the vernal equinox - can the fish see the windows?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Any of these can trigger mating behavior.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Dane & Leslie Moore said:
                                                                                        >> This fish has yet another spot on him as of about 2 hours ago.  His
                                                                                        > fins
                                                                                        >> have some brown on the edges and now there is a spot on each side of
                                                                                        >> him, dark brown in color. He is normally very orange so I don't think
                                                                                        >> it's color changing.  I could really use some help with this.  Even if
                                                                                        >> no one knows what it is, maybe a good online source?  I can't seem to
                                                                                        >> find anything.
                                                                                        >> Thanks.
                                                                                        >>
                                                                                        >> Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >>
                                                                                        >>
                                                                                        >>
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        > .
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                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        .
                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9327 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        In a message dated 3/21/2005 8:17:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, amalthea23@... writes:
                                                                                        the point is only that the poodle is also a crossbreed (note the lack
                                                                                        of wild poodles on the serengeti plains...
                                                                                        Aside from being off topic, the correlation is a stretch at best...
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Now back to fish? =}
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9328 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Pleco gone pale, within the last 2 hours. Need some answers please

                                                                                        Me AGAIN,

                                                                                        Noticed the pleco has major pale spots forming right before my eyes.  They are all over him and quite large.  I put down dinner and test for nitrates, through the roof!  Did a 45% water change and added Amquel +.  Should this be enough of a water change and what’s wrong with my pleco?  Since I added amqeul will I get an accurate reading if I test again?

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                         

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9329 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: New member question
                                                                                        I've had this happen with my neons hence why I have given up on them entirely... being that you don't see any visible signs is odd but my first guess would be NTD neon tetra disease.. not much is known about it.. abut it is fatale and basically the neon starts to look beat up and finally just dies... I have lost all of mine but one to it.. and the last one is just hanging out has been for nearly a year as I refuse to buy anymore... they are pretty but I just haven't had any luck with them... Shannon


                                                                                        Hi, new member here.  I have a question about one of my neon tetras.
                                                                                        He started swimming very jerky and pulls to one side while
                                                                                        swimming.  There are no other visable signs like ich or sores on him
                                                                                        and no stressful goings on in the tank.  I thought I would lose him
                                                                                        last week after it started but he is still hanging in there.  I was
                                                                                        also worried about other fish in tank getting the same affliction
                                                                                        but it has been a week and no others show any signs of ill health. 
                                                                                        Can anyone tell me what has happened to him and any cures for this?

                                                                                        I have a 20 gal fresh water tank with all tetras. Six neons, one
                                                                                        long fin black tetra, one reg fin black tetra, one long fin white
                                                                                        tetra and one reg fin white tetra , 3 penguin tetras (I think that
                                                                                        is what they were called), 2 black neon tetras, and one blue and one
                                                                                        pink reg fin tetra (I think they are dyed).  I got them when I first
                                                                                        set up my tank but since then have had miss-givings about bying dyed
                                                                                        fish.  Could anyone explain the process is it acceptable practice
                                                                                        among this group?
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9330 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                        OK.  Point taken. And thanks for the visual of the poodle stampede! =)

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                         

                                                                                         

                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 7:12 PM
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                         

                                                                                        the point is only that the poodle is also a crossbreed (note the lack of wild poodles on the serengeti plains...
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        Get em' while they're cheap!
                                                                                        Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the Basement....
                                                                                        http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop

                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 7:46 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                        I have a poodle who lays at my feet…I’m missing the correlation.?

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                         

                                                                                         

                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 3:44 PM
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9331 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: confused
                                                                                        very good reason why it is best to investigate before every buying... I myself had a rubber lip pleco for about 6 months it was like 3 inches didn't really grow and even if it had doubled would have been fine cause all it does it eat the algae... but I don't know how big all of them can get as there are tons of different kinds... Shannon
                                                                                        Talk about being confused . . . how big does the common pleco get? 
                                                                                         
                                                                                        I have what I would think is a common one.  Purchased it at a fish store for $4.00. 
                                                                                         
                                                                                        I would really like to understand this size thing before I end up with a monster in my tank.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Karima
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9332 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        lol. i forgot to ask, are the spots round? or just random splotches? i
                                                                                        have a blood parrot and few months ago she got a couple of black lines
                                                                                        on her fins, it was disturbing at first but once they fully appeared,
                                                                                        they turned out to be adult markings (i'd gotten her as a juvenile.)
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        Bored? Never Fear!
                                                                                        http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 8:34 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                        > OK.  Point taken. And thanks for the visual of the poodle stampede! =)
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        > From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 7:12 PM
                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > the point is only that the poodle is also a crossbreed (note the lack
                                                                                        > of wild poodles on the serengeti plains...
                                                                                        > amalthea
                                                                                        > Get em' while they're cheap!
                                                                                        > Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the
                                                                                        > Basement....
                                                                                        > http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
                                                                                        > On Mar 21, 2005, at 7:46 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I have a poodle who lays at my feet…I’m missing the correlation.?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        > From:Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        > Sent:Monday, March 21, 2005 3:44 PM
                                                                                        > To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > Subject:Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        > .
                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                        > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                        > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                        > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
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                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9333 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: confused
                                                                                        common plecos can get really enormous, unless you have a very long tank
                                                                                        and can house a fish that gets over 12" long, i wouldn't recommend
                                                                                        getting one. also, it's sometimes tough to house them in planted tanks
                                                                                        as they're "clumsy" and tear up and catch on plantings.
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                        Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 8:36 PM, agentscullyeyore@... wrote:

                                                                                        > very good reason why it is best to investigate before every buying...
                                                                                        > I myself had a rubber lip pleco for about 6 months it was like 3
                                                                                        > inches didn't really grow and even if it had doubled would have been
                                                                                        > fine cause all it does it eat the algae... but I don't know how big
                                                                                        > all of them can get as there are tons of different kinds... Shannon
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Talk about being confused . . . how big does the common pleco get? 
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        > I have what I would think is a common one.  Purchased it at a fish
                                                                                        > store for $4.00. 
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        > I would really like to understand this size thing before I end up with
                                                                                        > a monster in my tank.
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        > Karima
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        > .
                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                        > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                        > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                        > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                        >
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                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9334 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                        They are round so far.  Then the fins, top and left side, are lined at the border with black. 

                                                                                        I just tested the nitrates and they are WAY high.  I did 45% water change and added amquel, so I’m hoping this will ease the problem.

                                                                                        BTW, My husband also laughed over the lack of poodles in the Serengeti. 

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                         

                                                                                         

                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 7:39 PM
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                         

                                                                                        lol. i forgot to ask, are the spots round? or just random splotches? i have a blood parrot and few months ago she got a couple of black lines on her fins, it was disturbing at first but once they fully appeared, they turned out to be adult markings (i'd gotten her as a juvenile.)
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        Bored? Never Fear!
                                                                                        http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php

                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 8:34 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                        OK.  Point taken. And thanks for the visual of the poodle stampede! =)

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                         

                                                                                         

                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 7:12 PM
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                         

                                                                                        the point is only that the poodle is also a crossbreed (note the lack of wild poodles on the serengeti plains...
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        Get em' while they're cheap!
                                                                                        Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the Basement....
                                                                                        http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 7:46 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                        I have a poodle who lays at my feet…I’m missing the correlation.?

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                         

                                                                                         

                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 3:44 PM
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots


                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        .
                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9335 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        be careful with the amquel because it can effect readings on many
                                                                                        testing kits. keep up with the water changes though, that should
                                                                                        definitely ease the nitrate issue. how long has the tank been set up?
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                        Don't be Afraid to Scream....
                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 8:45 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                        > They are round so far.  Then the fins, top and left side, are lined at
                                                                                        > the border with black. 
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I just tested the nitrates and they are WAY high.  I did 45% water
                                                                                        > change and added amquel, so I’m hoping this will ease the problem.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > BTW, My husband also laughed over the lack of poodles in the
                                                                                        > Serengeti. 
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        > From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 7:39 PM
                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > lol. i forgot to ask, are the spots round? or just random splotches? i
                                                                                        > have a blood parrot and few months ago she got a couple of black lines
                                                                                        > on her fins, it was disturbing at first but once they fully appeared,
                                                                                        > they turned out to be adult markings (i'd gotten her as a juvenile.)
                                                                                        > amalthea
                                                                                        > Bored? Never Fear!
                                                                                        > http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
                                                                                        > On Mar 21, 2005, at 8:34 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > OK.  Point taken. And thanks for the visual of the poodle stampede! =)
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        > From:Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        > Sent:Monday, March 21, 2005 7:12 PM
                                                                                        > To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > Subject:Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > the point is only that the poodle is also a crossbreed (note the lack
                                                                                        > of wild poodles on the serengeti plains...
                                                                                        > amalthea
                                                                                        > Get em' while they're cheap!
                                                                                        > Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the
                                                                                        > Basement....
                                                                                        > http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
                                                                                        > On Mar 21, 2005, at 7:46 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I have a poodle who lays at my feet…I’m missing the correlation.?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        > From:Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        > Sent:Monday, March 21, 2005 3:44 PM
                                                                                        > To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > Subject:Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        > .
                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                        > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                        > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                        > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        > .
                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                        > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                        > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                        > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9336 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: confused
                                                                                            Ottos and Plecos?  That is like asking the difference between neon tetras and piranhas. :)  Ottos are small and cheap, but do a great job.  Plecos are a wide group, at least one genus I think, that go from 3 to 24 inches long, depending on species.  The most common ones are also the longest ones, so unless it has a name other than just "pleco", don't get it unless you have a large tank.  For ottos, about 1 per 5 gallons is supposed to be enough to eat the algae.  They are hardy, but they have problems for a few months after you buy them.  I have had one for a year and a half and another one that is about half a year old, but I bought them in pairs or three's and only one survived each time.
                                                                                            Oh, and any time you need a picture, go to google.com and click on the images link, and do a search.  It will come up with a page of images of whatever you are looking for.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Patrick
                                                                                         
                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                        Okay ~
                                                                                        I am confused. What is the difference between the Otocinclus and the Pleco. Are they both the same price(about how much).Do I need to feed these extra food or do they just feed off what is in the tank. Sorry for the stupidity ?'s. Is there a Website that has info on these and photos,too.
                                                                                        Stacey
                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9337 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                        It’s been up and going for 2 weeks. It was a rescue tank and had lots of issues when we got it.  We will be setting up a 70 gal. in the next week and transferring the fish once it’s ready.  In the meantime we are trying to keep this one safe.  It’s so dirty it’s disgusting!  But we’ve only had one casualty, due to ammonia level, so I guess that’s good.

                                                                                        If the nitrates are still high this time tomorrow, I’ll change the water out again.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                         

                                                                                         

                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 7:57 PM
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                         

                                                                                        be careful with the amquel because it can effect readings on many testing kits. keep up with the water changes though, that should definitely ease the nitrate issue. how long has the tank been set up?
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                        Don't be Afraid to Scream....

                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 8:45 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                        They are round so far.  Then the fins, top and left side, are lined at the border with black. 

                                                                                        I just tested the nitrates and they are WAY high.  I did 45% water change and added amquel, so I’m hoping this will ease the problem.

                                                                                        BTW, My husband also laughed over the lack of poodles in the Serengeti. 

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                         

                                                                                         

                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 7:39 PM
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                         

                                                                                        lol. i forgot to ask, are the spots round? or just random splotches? i have a blood parrot and few months ago she got a couple of black lines on her fins, it was disturbing at first but once they fully appeared, they turned out to be adult markings (i'd gotten her as a juvenile.)
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        Bored? Never Fear!
                                                                                        http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 8:34 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                        OK.  Point taken. And thanks for the visual of the poodle stampede! =)

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                         

                                                                                         

                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 7:12 PM
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                         

                                                                                        the point is only that the poodle is also a crossbreed (note the lack of wild poodles on the serengeti plains...
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        Get em' while they're cheap!
                                                                                        Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the Basement....
                                                                                        http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 7:46 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                        I have a poodle who lays at my feet…I’m missing the correlation.?

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                         

                                                                                         

                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 3:44 PM
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots


                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        .
                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        .
                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9338 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: confused

                                                                                        If you don’t want a poop machine, don’t get a pleco!

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                         

                                                                                         

                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Patrick, American Fish Guy [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 8:01 PM
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] confused

                                                                                         

                                                                                            Ottos and Plecos?  That is like asking the difference between neon tetras and piranhas. :)  Ottos are small and cheap, but do a great job.  Plecos are a wide group, at least one genus I think, that go from 3 to 24 inches long, depending on species.  The most common ones are also the longest ones, so unless it has a name other than just "pleco", don't get it unless you have a large tank.  For ottos, about 1 per 5 gallons is supposed to be enough to eat the algae.  They are hardy, but they have problems for a few months after you buy them.  I have had one for a year and a half and another one that is about half a year old, but I bought them in pairs or three's and only one survived each time.

                                                                                            Oh, and any time you need a picture, go to google.com and click on the images link, and do a search.  It will come up with a page of images of whatever you are looking for.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Patrick

                                                                                         

                                                                                        -------Original Message-------

                                                                                        Okay ~

                                                                                        I am confused. What is the difference between the Otocinclus and the Pleco. Are they both the same price(about how much).Do I need to feed these extra food or do they just feed off what is in the tank. Sorry for the stupidity ?'s. Is there a Website that has info on these and photos,too.

                                                                                        Stacey

                                                                                         

                                                                                         

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        .
                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9339 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        well, that would explain things a little bit, but good luck with the
                                                                                        rescue efforts!
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        Bored? Never Fear!
                                                                                        http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 9:36 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                        > It’s been up and going for 2 weeks. It was a rescue tank and had lots
                                                                                        > of issues when we got it.  We will be setting up a 70 gal. in the next
                                                                                        > week and transferring the fish once it’s ready.  In the meantime we
                                                                                        > are trying to keep this one safe.  It’s so dirty it’s disgusting!  But
                                                                                        > we’ve only had one casualty, due to ammonia level, so I guess that’s
                                                                                        > good.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > If the nitrates are still high this time tomorrow, I’ll change the
                                                                                        > water out again.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        > From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 7:57 PM
                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > be careful with the amquel because it can effect readings on many
                                                                                        > testing kits. keep up with the water changes though, that should
                                                                                        > definitely ease the nitrate issue. how long has the tank been set up?
                                                                                        > amalthea
                                                                                        > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                        > Don't be Afraid to Scream....
                                                                                        > On Mar 21, 2005, at 8:45 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > They are round so far.  Then the fins, top and left side, are lined at
                                                                                        > the border with black. 
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I just tested the nitrates and they are WAY high.  I did 45% water
                                                                                        > change and added amquel, so I’m hoping this will ease the problem.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > BTW, My husband also laughed over the lack of poodles in the
                                                                                        > Serengeti. 
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        > From:Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        > Sent:Monday, March 21, 2005 7:39 PM
                                                                                        > To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > Subject:Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > lol. i forgot to ask, are the spots round? or just random splotches?
                                                                                        > i have a blood parrot and few months ago she got a couple of black
                                                                                        > lines on her fins, it was disturbing at first but once they fully
                                                                                        > appeared, they turned out to be adult markings (i'd gotten her as a
                                                                                        > juvenile.)
                                                                                        > amalthea
                                                                                        > Bored? Never Fear!
                                                                                        > http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
                                                                                        > On Mar 21, 2005, at 8:34 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > OK.  Point taken. And thanks for the visual of the poodle stampede! =)
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        > From:Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        > Sent:Monday, March 21, 2005 7:12 PM
                                                                                        > To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > Subject:Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > the point is only that the poodle is also a crossbreed (note the lack
                                                                                        > of wild poodles on the serengeti plains...
                                                                                        > amalthea
                                                                                        > Get em' while they're cheap!
                                                                                        > Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the
                                                                                        > Basement....
                                                                                        > http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
                                                                                        > On Mar 21, 2005, at 7:46 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I have a poodle who lays at my feet…I’m missing the correlation.?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        > From:Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                        > Sent:Monday, March 21, 2005 3:44 PM
                                                                                        > To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > Subject:Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        > .
                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                        > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                        > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                        > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
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                                                                                        > <l.gif>
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                        > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        >  
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                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        > .
                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                        > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                        > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                        > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                                                                        >
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                                                                                        >
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                                                                                        > .
                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                        > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                        > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                        > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9340 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        Hi Ron,
                                                                                        Are you sure they are sterile?  Around the San Francisco fish stores I have seen "valentine" or heart shaped parrots.  They have NO tail, just the fins above and below the tail fin.    
                                                                                        Anyway, reason I brought it up is I thought maybe they were line bred or something to develope the "no-tail" strain.
                                                                                        Mike
                                                                                         
                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...>
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Sent: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 18:09:46 -0500 (EST)
                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                        
                                                                                        They are sterile, so who cares if they are cross-breeds.  Mules and Ligers
                                                                                        are wonderful animals and are the same basic concept.
                                                                                        
                                                                                        Yes, Blood Parrots have very social natures.  There are other fish that do
                                                                                        too, but you aren't going to want any of them in the same tank.
                                                                                        
                                                                                        Oscars have wonderful personalities, but they will grow very large and
                                                                                        will bully the Parrots and will also eat the smaller fish.
                                                                                        
                                                                                        On the other end of the spectrum, Paradise fish show many of the same
                                                                                        traits, but they are small and will be bullied or eaten by the parrots.
                                                                                        
                                                                                        
                                                                                        
                                                                                        
                                                                                        
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9341 From: Norman. S. Hampson. Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Sounds fishy to me. :-)
                                                                                        Hi Denise,
                                                                                        Did your phone call confirm that Marius was
                                                                                        running this project and explain why they were trying
                                                                                        to use this group instead of the normal business
                                                                                        channels ?. How do you explain his fantastic water
                                                                                        treatment claims and all the other dozens of companys
                                                                                        he claims to own and run as a one man band.
                                                                                        Can you explain why they would chose Koi a
                                                                                        very hard fish to breed successfully a slow grower and
                                                                                        requiring high finance with no return for a long time,
                                                                                        plus it is a specialist market?
                                                                                        If you are thinking of getting involved I
                                                                                        would do some serious research first. I feel he is
                                                                                        searching for gullible people before launching his
                                                                                        scam or whatever.
                                                                                        The whole thing is very suspicious and
                                                                                        certainly not the way a large City Council should be
                                                                                        doing business.
                                                                                        regards,
                                                                                        unclenorm.




                                                                                        --- Denise <sandpiper@...> wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Yes, Marius has left the building....and too bad
                                                                                        > about the arrogance
                                                                                        > of a few people here. I had enough sense to pick up
                                                                                        > the phone and make
                                                                                        > a call to Cape Town City Counsel. Marius was telling
                                                                                        > the truth. The
                                                                                        > Koi are being purchased for a domestic aquaculture
                                                                                        > project. The
                                                                                        > proceeds are being used to clean up the Berg River
                                                                                        > so that the local
                                                                                        > black people in the township can fish in the river
                                                                                        > again. That is the
                                                                                        > connection with feeding people.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Marius didn't make total sense because English is
                                                                                        > not his native
                                                                                        > language...Afrikaans is.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I'll say one thing. I'm an African-American woman
                                                                                        > and I lived in South
                                                                                        > Africa durng the period of apartheid. I met many
                                                                                        > individuals like
                                                                                        > Marius, usually dead by the side of a road with a
                                                                                        > bullet in the back
                                                                                        > of the skull. The penalty at that time for an white
                                                                                        > Afrikaaner trying
                                                                                        > to help black people was summary execution by the
                                                                                        > SADF. I came across
                                                                                        > many bodies.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > One other thing, spammers post their spam and then
                                                                                        > immediately
                                                                                        > disappear. The average spammer doesn't stick around
                                                                                        > for the lynching.
                                                                                        > That's the major difference between a real spammer
                                                                                        > and a well-meaning,
                                                                                        > though imperfect human being.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Have a Blessed Day,
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Denise
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron"
                                                                                        > <massagetherapist@m...>
                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > ha ha lol, thats punny
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Marius has "left the building"
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > I thank you all for your feedback and
                                                                                        > > I apologize for creating such a stir by allowing
                                                                                        > the "Off Topic"
                                                                                        > > Material to get thru
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Aaron
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > now on to the fishy stuff as we return you back to
                                                                                        > our regularly
                                                                                        > > scheduled program
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rodrigo Jr.
                                                                                        > Marquez"
                                                                                        > > <la_rmarquezjr@y...> wrote:
                                                                                        > > > Sounds fishy to me. :-) , ...
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >

                                                                                        Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9342 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                            No, the breeders cut their tail fins off!  Some of these fish are not sterile, many people report breeding them, but there is an occasional mule that is not sterile too.  Most of them are.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Patrick
                                                                                         
                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                        Hi Ron,
                                                                                        Are you sure they are sterile?  Around the San Francisco fish stores I have seen "valentine" or heart shaped parrots.  They have NO tail, just the fins above and below the tail fin.    
                                                                                        Anyway, reason I brought it up is I thought maybe they were line bred or something to develope the "no-tail" strain.
                                                                                        Mike
                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9343 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        Hi Patrick,
                                                                                        Hacking their tails off?  That's bad, real bad.  I had no idea.
                                                                                        Anyway, I try to avoid shopping at places like that.
                                                                                        Thanks for sharing that one, I guess I was way off.
                                                                                        Mike 
                                                                                         
                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Patrick, American Fish Guy <patrickmn1@...>
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Sent: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 21:18:17 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                            No, the breeders cut their tail fins off!  Some of these fish are not sterile, many people report breeding them, but there is an occasional mule that is not sterile too.  Most of them are.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Patrick
                                                                                         
                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                        Hi Ron,
                                                                                        Are you sure they are sterile?  Around the San Francisco fish stores I have seen "valentine" or heart shaped parrots.  They have NO tail, just the fins above and below the tail fin.    
                                                                                        Anyway, reason I brought it up is I thought maybe they were line bred or something to develope the "no-tail" strain.
                                                                                        Mike
                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        .
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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9344 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        again, they're NOT hacked off. many are bred specifically for the "no
                                                                                        tail" trait. do some research on this before accepting anything you
                                                                                        hear.
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        Get em' while they're cheap!
                                                                                        Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the
                                                                                        Basement....
                                                                                        http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 11:03 PM, Deenerz@... wrote:

                                                                                        > Hi Patrick,
                                                                                        > Hacking their tails off?  That's bad, real bad.  I had no idea.
                                                                                        > Anyway, I try to avoid shopping at places like that.
                                                                                        > Thanks for sharing that one, I guess I was way off.
                                                                                        > Mike 
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        > From: Patrick, American Fish Guy <patrickmn1@...>
                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > Sent: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 21:18:17 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >     No, the breeders cut their tail fins off!  Some of these fish are
                                                                                        > not sterile, many people report breeding them, but there is an
                                                                                        > occasional mule that is not sterile too.  Most of them are.
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        > Patrick
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                        > Hi Ron,
                                                                                        > Are you sure they are sterile?  Around the San Francisco fish stores I
                                                                                        > have seen "valentine" or heart shaped parrots.  They have NO tail,
                                                                                        > just the fins above and below the tail fin.    
                                                                                        > Anyway, reason I brought it up is I thought maybe they were line bred
                                                                                        > or something to develope the "no-tail" strain.
                                                                                        > Mike
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > <imstp_emo_en.gif>
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        > .
                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                        > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                        > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                        > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9345 From: Amalthea Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        no, actually many are bred without the tails. this is a natural variant
                                                                                        to the process, they're not "docked." please don't wildly spread
                                                                                        rumors.
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                        Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 10:18 PM, Patrick, American Fish Guy wrote:

                                                                                        >     No, the breeders cut their tail fins off!  Some of these fish are
                                                                                        > not sterile, many people report breeding them, but there is an
                                                                                        > occasional mule that is not sterile too.  Most of them are.
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        > Patrick
                                                                                        >  
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                        > Hi Ron,
                                                                                        > Are you sure they are sterile?  Around the San Francisco fish stores I
                                                                                        > have seen "valentine" or heart shaped parrots.  They have NO tail,
                                                                                        > just the fins above and below the tail fin.    
                                                                                        > Anyway, reason I brought it up is I thought maybe they were line bred
                                                                                        > or something to develope the "no-tail" strain.
                                                                                        > Mike
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > <imstp_emo_en.gif>
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        > .
                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                        > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                        > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                        > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
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                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9346 From: Lief Brittan Youngs Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Algea Eaters
                                                                                        I had a pleco for over a year and it got to be about 12 inches or so. I had it in a 30 gallon extra high tank. I had to give it to the fish store it was so big. I fed mine one algea wafer a day and it did great. I was told by the fish store that they can get up to 2 feet or so in size and live for many years.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Lief Youngs


                                                                                        ++++++++++++++++++++Lief Youngs++++++++++++++++++++
                                                                                        http://geocities.com/SouthBeach/Mansion/4739
                                                                                        Colorado State University Graduate May 2004
                                                                                        B.S. Bioagricultural Sciences major
                                                                                        B.S. Agricultural Business major
                                                                                        +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                                                                        To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift. -- Steve Prefontaine


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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9347 From: Steve Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Using Peat in a Filter - Question
                                                                                        I probably do have some links somewhere, but most of my stuff is in books,
                                                                                        notes, personal correspondence, etc. You know, the old fashioned stuff.
                                                                                        Sorry I didn't see your post earlier today, as I goofed off most of the day,
                                                                                        having taken the day off from work. I go back tomorrow, so it may take me a
                                                                                        few days to get caught up enough to pull the stuff together (I have the kind
                                                                                        of job where stuff piles up rather than being taken care of by others).

                                                                                        When was the last time you calibrated your pH meter? They need to be
                                                                                        calibrated regularly, and the sensors cleaned or replaced on a regular
                                                                                        basis. Otherwise you will not get proper and consistent readings. They are
                                                                                        handy, though.

                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Laura F. Garcia [mailto:lfigarcia@...]
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 1:58 PM
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Using Peat in a Filter - Question



                                                                                        Steve,

                                                                                        Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate the information. If it
                                                                                        is not TOO much trouble for you
                                                                                        to send me more information or links to further info, I would be most
                                                                                        grateful.

                                                                                        Your preference for keeping fish that do well in the water you have is
                                                                                        undoubtedly a wise idea. I have
                                                                                        a "thing" for Cardinals, however. I believe the ones I plan to get are
                                                                                        farm raised, rather than wild,
                                                                                        so hopefully they will be a bit more tolerant of local water chemistry
                                                                                        (well water, hard, somewhat high
                                                                                        pH). Eventually I was hoping to get some wild ones, though. We'll see
                                                                                        how it goes.

                                                                                        I have learned not to mess with so-called "proper pH"-type additives; I
                                                                                        have killed fish using one to
                                                                                        lower my water's pH, even though I followed the directions.

                                                                                        Thanks again for your help. I at least now know why the pH went back
                                                                                        up! I will monitor it
                                                                                        closely over the next week or two. It will be a couple of weeks before
                                                                                        I get the tetras. (Maybe
                                                                                        I should've gone with Congos.) BTW, I have a Pinpoint pH monitor. I
                                                                                        rely on it more than
                                                                                        on my test kit, which I find difficult to interpret.

                                                                                        Cheers,

                                                                                        Laura Garcia

                                                                                        Steve wrote:

                                                                                        > Laura,
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Changing water chemistry is not as easy as it is always made out to
                                                                                        > be. When
                                                                                        > it comes to pH, it can be very tricky indeed. In a simplistic take, all
                                                                                        > water has a natural buffing capacity. This helps maintain the pH of the
                                                                                        > water. When you try to decrease the pH, you need to overcome this buffer.
                                                                                        > This can be done successfully, but it can also lead to disastrous results.
                                                                                        > If the buffer is broken, your pH can plummet, probably to a level far
                                                                                        > lower
                                                                                        > than you wish for your fish.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Using peat is a good method for trying to lower pH. It also adds
                                                                                        > tannins to
                                                                                        > the water which can help with certain species of fish. However, when
                                                                                        > you are
                                                                                        > using peat, do not expect to see immediate results. It can take days
                                                                                        > for the
                                                                                        > water to drop in pH as your test had initially indicated after you had
                                                                                        > added
                                                                                        > the peat. Depending on your brand of test kit, and other water additives,
                                                                                        > and your measuring methods, readings given may be variable.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Peat is often used to soften hard water, and the lowering of the pH is
                                                                                        > just
                                                                                        > a bonus. While it is not often seen, hard water can have a low pH and soft
                                                                                        > water can have a high pH. Water hardness does not move hand in hand
                                                                                        > with pH.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > This all is just off the top of my head. if you wish a fuller
                                                                                        > explanation, I
                                                                                        > can probably pull together my references to give you something in more
                                                                                        > detail as to how this all works. I am pretty much a believer in
                                                                                        > keeping fish
                                                                                        > that will do well in the water you have rather than having to create water
                                                                                        > conditions the fish will like.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > \\Steve//





                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                        the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
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                                                                                        in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9348 From: Steve Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank
                                                                                        Well water is likely to be hard water. If the town gets its water from
                                                                                        wells, it may be hard also, but may also be soft as they may soften it
                                                                                        before pumping it through the system. I'd definitely wait until after the
                                                                                        move before starting up a tank, strictly from a water view.

                                                                                        In the meanwhile, you can make up some lists of fish. One for your present
                                                                                        location and another for the in town situation. You can probably get an idea
                                                                                        from the water company that services the town as to the water parameters,
                                                                                        simply by asking. If they give you any hassle, tell them you are moving into
                                                                                        town and would like to know the water parameters before the move so you can
                                                                                        plan ahead.

                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Tricia Wilkerson [mailto:trycya@...]
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 2:26 PM
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ideas for our 29 gal. tank


                                                                                        I have no idea. I am on a well at the present but most likely will be
                                                                                        moving back into town, so there will be all those lovely chems that they
                                                                                        dump into our water to make it "healthier" for us, but that is a diff.
                                                                                        soapbox all together. I am debating on how specific I want to get with all
                                                                                        the testing, ssems like if you watch the physical aspects and behavors of
                                                                                        your tank you can keep track of what it needs. At least that is how my G-ma
                                                                                        had always taken care of her planted tank, wish I would have paid more
                                                                                        attention to how she took care of hers. She had snails and guppies, though
                                                                                        she chose not to have a sucker fish cause she thought they were a bit ugly
                                                                                        and rarely was seen. I do not even remember any other algae eater other
                                                                                        than the snails. She did not test for pH or anything like that, she had the
                                                                                        kits for all that and had said that she tested once and thought that it was
                                                                                        an unnecesary task. Her tank was always thriving and always had tons of fry
                                                                                        that would have to be moved to her "nursery" tank for a couple of weeks or
                                                                                        so and if she could catch the female in time she would be moved as well
                                                                                        until after she had finished birthing.

                                                                                        I will have to keep an eye out for these books, sounds like it will be a bit
                                                                                        of an adventure on a couple, but who knows what other treasure can be find
                                                                                        while hunting.


                                                                                        MM & MP, '73
                                                                                        Tricia, KG6PNC



                                                                                        Check out my current eBay auctions
                                                                                        http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZleonardQ2dnQ2dtricia


                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        From: Steve
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 5:15 AM
                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ideas for our 29 gal. tank


                                                                                        Tricia,

                                                                                        What kind of water do you have? What is the pH? What is the hardness? You
                                                                                        should be aware of these things prior to doing your planning, so you can
                                                                                        make the proper choices. I do understand you are moving in a few months,
                                                                                        but, if the move is fairly local, then you can pretty much go on the
                                                                                        assumption that your water in your new home will be similar to that you have
                                                                                        now.

                                                                                        Knowing your local water is important not only for the fish you can
                                                                                        successfully keep, but for the plants you will be able to successfully keep.
                                                                                        Certain plants will do well in harder water, others in softer water. The
                                                                                        same goes for your fish. Now, on the other hand, you can keep both fish and
                                                                                        plants in water that is not ideal for them, and they will survive, but not
                                                                                        thrive.

                                                                                        In a planted tank, I would not keep any suckermouthed fish, except, perhaps
                                                                                        for Otocinclus, and only for algae control, if needed. Presuming your water
                                                                                        is of the soft, acid type, I'd probably go with several Cory catfish. There
                                                                                        are a number of varieties to choose from, and they should be kept in a
                                                                                        group. This would provide for activity in the bottom level of your tank. For
                                                                                        mid water level, a nice school of 6-8 neons, or other small tetras would be
                                                                                        nice. For the upper levels of the water column, hatchet fish may be a nice
                                                                                        choice.

                                                                                        I'd skip the snails for the sake of your plants.

                                                                                        If your water is harder and has a higher pH, I'd make a different selection
                                                                                        of fish.

                                                                                        There are a number of good books out there for you to read. I'd probably
                                                                                        start you off with a copy of the Baensch Aquarium Atlas, Volume 1 (BAA).
                                                                                        (freshwater volumes 1-4 are available--but you really only need Volume 1).
                                                                                        It is normally a $50 book, but you can find it for less, looking around.
                                                                                        Your local used bookstore may have some copies in stock.

                                                                                        The BAA, will give you a quick overview of setting up and maintaining an
                                                                                        aquarium. It has a fairly good section on plants. And, of course, it has an
                                                                                        extensive section on fish.

                                                                                        Another book I really like, though it is somewhat dated now, is the Innes
                                                                                        book--formally know as Exotic Aquarium Fishes, 19th edition revised. William
                                                                                        T. Innes is the author, and he is still highly regarded in the field, though
                                                                                        he died many years ago. There is a very good section on setting up and
                                                                                        maintain aquariums, however, some of the methods have changed over the
                                                                                        years, but all the basics are there. You can only find this book used, and
                                                                                        it can be a challenge to find one in good condition.

                                                                                        The Complete Idiot's Guide to Freshwater Aquariums by Mike Wickham is
                                                                                        another good book. Again, you'll probably need to find this one in a used
                                                                                        bookstore. (Full disclosure: I'll refrain from comments on this one since I
                                                                                        know Mike, and will let others fill you in.). Mike now is starting his own
                                                                                        publishing company, and this book, if not already out, will be again
                                                                                        offered, however it will have a different title.

                                                                                        A good monthly magazine to read would be Aquarium Fish Magazine. It has a
                                                                                        mix of freshwater and marine articles geared to the novice or intermediate
                                                                                        aquarist. Pay particular attention to the various Q&A columns, and don't
                                                                                        ignore the "Fish Kidz" column because you are not a kid. PetsMart and other
                                                                                        stores carry this magazine.

                                                                                        \\Steve//




                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        .
                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                        the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9349 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Used to beAlgae eaters( bristlenose)
                                                                                        Your bristle nose/ bushy nose  pleco will, probally get no bigger then 5 inches. 

                                                                                        Where a common pleco(pet store pleco's sold at $3.99) can get upwards to 12 inches PLUS.. if it does not say bristlenose or bushy nose expect your pleco to get upwards of a foot long even in a 10 gallon tank..

                                                                                        rob
                                                                                        NE Indiana
                                                                                        USA

                                                                                        In a message dated 3/21/2005 8:10:41 PM US Eastern Standard Time, karima@... writes:


                                                                                        How big is yours?  My Bristol Nose Pleco (at least that is what it looks like) seems to have doubled in size in the two months since I got him.  How big will he get?  I have a 50 gallon tank.



                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9350 From: Steve Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: confused
                                                                                        Pleco is a generic term for a type of fish. There is a real fish, however,
                                                                                        that is associated definitely with the common name of pleco, and this is the
                                                                                        _Hypostomus plecostomus_ which grows to a mere 19 1.2" or so. The term
                                                                                        pleco, as it is used in the trade refers to any of a number of species of
                                                                                        the _ Loricariidae_ group. When full grown, they can range in size from a
                                                                                        few inches to over 2 feet. There are many species that are unidentified, and
                                                                                        there are many that are hard to tell apart, unless you know where they were
                                                                                        collected.

                                                                                        So, unless you have an idea of what you are actually getting, you may wish
                                                                                        to forgo the pleco, and find something else.

                                                                                        Otos are often used, but due to their size, you do need several of them to
                                                                                        do the job.

                                                                                        You also need to have an idea of the type of algae you have that you wish to
                                                                                        have the fish remove, as various fish each eat different types of algae. If
                                                                                        you mismatch the algae and the fish, the fish could well starve while there
                                                                                        appears to be an abundance of food for them.

                                                                                        All _ Loricariidae_ type fish need to have some wood in the aquarium as
                                                                                        well. There appears to be some need for them to have wood in the diet,
                                                                                        though I don't know exactly what it is, nor do I recall seeing a particular
                                                                                        reason for this to be true, but true it is, nevertheless.

                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: Karima [mailto:karima@...]
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 7:29 PM
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] confused


                                                                                        Talk about being confused . . . how big does the common pleco get?

                                                                                        I have what I would think is a common one. Purchased it at a fish store for
                                                                                        $4.00.

                                                                                        I would really like to understand this size thing before I end up with a
                                                                                        monster in my tank.

                                                                                        Karima
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        From: agentscullyeyore@...
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 6:13 PM
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] confused


                                                                                        the ottos are very small.. and in my opinion are not very hardy they need
                                                                                        some food like algae wafer.. as well does a pleco.. a pleco is much bigger
                                                                                        but wont exceed 3 inches and are very calm... when I first got mine I
                                                                                        thought I wouldn't like it it was so ugly but it so grew on me.. I feed it
                                                                                        an algae pellet every other day or so.. very low matience... the pleco is
                                                                                        much more expensive I paid 5 bucks for mine and like 2 for the ottos... I
                                                                                        will never again get ottos cause they just don't do much and are so small I
                                                                                        hate having to pay so much attention making sure they are still alive the
                                                                                        pleco is no trouble at all.. Shannon
                                                                                        Okay ~
                                                                                        I am confused. What is the difference between the Otocinclus and the Pleco.
                                                                                        Are they both the same price(about how much).Do I need to feed these extra
                                                                                        food or do they just feed off what is in the tank. Sorry for the stupidity
                                                                                        ?'s. Is there a Website that has info on these and photos,too.
                                                                                        Stacey
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9351 From: Steve Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        Actually, this is very much on topic. We have various breeds of dogs that
                                                                                        were bred for specific purposes. You have herding dogs, like Shetland Sheep
                                                                                        Dogs, and Old English Sheep dogs and Corgies and so on, you have the hunting
                                                                                        breeds and different types within them.

                                                                                        The only work done with fish is to make them more saleable, or purportedly
                                                                                        more saleable. This would be in line with certain dog breeds like the
                                                                                        Cockapoos--a cross between a poodle and a cocker spaniel. No real need was
                                                                                        fulfilled by creating this breed--similar to long finned varieties of many
                                                                                        species of fish, or the albinos, or the color varieties, etc.

                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        From: seleya8@... [mailto:seleya8@...]
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 8:22 PM
                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots


                                                                                        In a message dated 3/21/2005 8:17:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                        amalthea23@... writes:
                                                                                        the point is only that the poodle is also a crossbreed (note the lack
                                                                                        of wild poodles on the serengeti plains...

                                                                                        Aside from being off topic, the correlation is a stretch at best...

                                                                                        Now back to fish? =}
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9352 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Algea Eaters
                                                                                        your pleco reached that size in a year because it was
                                                                                        over fed. algae wafers are only intended as a
                                                                                        supplement for fish who are lacking green algae. in a
                                                                                        30 gallon tank that fish should take years to get
                                                                                        that long, not 1 year.
                                                                                        --- Lief Brittan Youngs <Liefy@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > I had a pleco for over a year and it got to be about
                                                                                        > 12 inches or so. I had it in a 30 gallon extra high
                                                                                        > tank. I had to give it to the fish store it was so
                                                                                        > big. I fed mine one algea wafer a day and it did
                                                                                        > great. I was told by the fish store that they can
                                                                                        > get up to 2 feet or so in size and live for many
                                                                                        > years.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Lief Youngs
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > ++++++++++++++++++++Lief Youngs++++++++++++++++++++
                                                                                        > http://geocities.com/SouthBeach/Mansion/4739
                                                                                        > Colorado State University Graduate May 2004
                                                                                        > B.S. Bioagricultural Sciences major
                                                                                        > B.S. Agricultural Business major
                                                                                        > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                                                                        > To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice
                                                                                        > the gift. -- Steve Prefontaine
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9353 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: confused
                                                                                        i guess price is relative to location, as ottos run
                                                                                        about 5-6 dollars each in california, where a medium
                                                                                        pleco runs about 8 bucks
                                                                                        --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                        <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > Ottos and Plecos? That is like asking the
                                                                                        > difference between neon
                                                                                        > tetras and piranhas. :) Ottos are small and cheap,
                                                                                        > but do a great job.
                                                                                        > Plecos are a wide group, at least one genus I think,
                                                                                        > that go from 3 to 24
                                                                                        > inches long, depending on species. The most common
                                                                                        > ones are also the
                                                                                        > longest ones, so unless it has a name other than
                                                                                        > just "pleco", don't get it
                                                                                        > unless you have a large tank. For ottos, about 1
                                                                                        > per 5 gallons is supposed
                                                                                        > to be enough to eat the algae. They are hardy, but
                                                                                        > they have problems for a
                                                                                        > few months after you buy them. I have had one for a
                                                                                        > year and a half and
                                                                                        > another one that is about half a year old, but I
                                                                                        > bought them in pairs or
                                                                                        > three's and only one survived each time.
                                                                                        > Oh, and any time you need a picture, go to
                                                                                        > google.com and click on the
                                                                                        > images link, and do a search. It will come up with
                                                                                        > a page of images of
                                                                                        > whatever you are looking for.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Patrick
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                        > Okay ~
                                                                                        > I am confused. What is the difference between the
                                                                                        > Otocinclus and the Pleco.
                                                                                        > Are they both the same price(about how much).Do I
                                                                                        > need to feed these extra
                                                                                        > food or do they just feed off what is in the tank.
                                                                                        > Sorry for the stupidity ?
                                                                                        > s. Is there a Website that has info on these and
                                                                                        > photos,too.
                                                                                        > Stacey



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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9354 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Pleco gone pale, within the last 2 hours. Need some answers pl
                                                                                        you need to let the amquel settle in before you test
                                                                                        again....24 hours or so. do not go over the listed
                                                                                        dosage on the bottle as it ewill be detrimrntal to
                                                                                        buffering capacity over time. i have a bit more
                                                                                        experience with amquel+ than many people as i had
                                                                                        access to the product 6 months before it was available
                                                                                        for sale. if you need something to be used in higher
                                                                                        doses i would recommend prime. it is stronger and
                                                                                        safer in emergencies.
                                                                                        paul
                                                                                        --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...>
                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                        > Me AGAIN,
                                                                                        > Noticed the pleco has major pale spots forming right
                                                                                        > before my eyes.
                                                                                        > They are all over him and quite large. I put down
                                                                                        > dinner and test for
                                                                                        > nitrates, through the roof! Did a 45% water change
                                                                                        > and added Amquel +.
                                                                                        > Should this be enough of a water change and what's
                                                                                        > wrong with my pleco?
                                                                                        > Since I added amqeul will I get an accurate reading
                                                                                        > if I test again?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >



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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9355 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        before the whole dog issue gets out of whack, they are
                                                                                        ALL cross bred! dogs were bred for traits as far back
                                                                                        as you can trace their history. unless you have a
                                                                                        dingo, coyote, wolf, fox, etc. you do not have a
                                                                                        non-cross bred animal.
                                                                                        --- seleya8@... wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > In a message dated 3/21/2005 8:17:48 PM Eastern
                                                                                        > Standard Time,
                                                                                        > amalthea23@... writes:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > the point is only that the poodle is also a
                                                                                        > crossbreed (note the lack
                                                                                        > of wild poodles on the serengeti plains...
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Aside from being off topic, the correlation is a
                                                                                        > stretch at best...
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Now back to fish? =}
                                                                                        >



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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9356 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: confused
                                                                                        if a pleco is crapping ti does not need
                                                                                        supplementation, if it is not crapping check its diet.
                                                                                        this is true for any algae eater. otos are voracious
                                                                                        algae eaters(towards algae) and in groups will clean
                                                                                        the tank rapidly, and need additional food.
                                                                                        --- Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > Okay ~
                                                                                        > I am confused. What is the difference between the
                                                                                        > Otocinclus and the Pleco. Are they both the same
                                                                                        > price(about how much).Do I need to feed these extra
                                                                                        > food or do they just feed off what is in the tank.
                                                                                        > Sorry for the stupidity ?'s. Is there a Website that
                                                                                        > has info on these and photos,too.
                                                                                        > Stacey
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > ---------------------------------
                                                                                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                        > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!



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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9357 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        i think that some people who have issues with cross
                                                                                        bred fish for sale in the market, have issues because
                                                                                        some of teh cross breeds are lab created, would not
                                                                                        occure in nature ever. it is not that two unrelated
                                                                                        fish bred, but rather that man has stepped in to
                                                                                        create a new species, where it is not needed. in the
                                                                                        case of mules, a wild donkey and a wild horse will
                                                                                        mate. yes i do realize that the spanish imported the
                                                                                        horse, and that it would not naturally happen here as
                                                                                        the horse does not "belong" here, but the fact is that
                                                                                        they will go about their business if living near
                                                                                        eachother. i am not saying that i do or do not agree
                                                                                        with the breeding of unrelated fish, but just as a
                                                                                        point for both sides i thought i would add comments.
                                                                                        if the fish can be crossbred without genetic
                                                                                        manipulation, there is nothing expressly impossible
                                                                                        about it. improbable yes, impossible no. this
                                                                                        discussion has already occured wiuthin the last year,
                                                                                        but i do realize that there are many new members here.
                                                                                        --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > They are sterile, so who cares if they are
                                                                                        > cross-breeds. Mules and Ligers
                                                                                        > are wonderful animals and are the same basic
                                                                                        > concept.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Yes, Blood Parrots have very social natures. There
                                                                                        > are other fish that do
                                                                                        > too, but you aren't going to want any of them in the
                                                                                        > same tank.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Oscars have wonderful personalities, but they will
                                                                                        > grow very large and
                                                                                        > will bully the Parrots and will also eat the smaller
                                                                                        > fish.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > On the other end of the spectrum, Paradise fish show
                                                                                        > many of the same
                                                                                        > traits, but they are small and will be bullied or
                                                                                        > eaten by the parrots.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Dane & Leslie Moore said:
                                                                                        > > Half of the living room is glass doors and they
                                                                                        > are near these. That's
                                                                                        > > so weird.
                                                                                        > > The blood parrots are apparently very well known
                                                                                        > for the personalities.
                                                                                        > > I have grown SO attached to both of them, even the
                                                                                        > bully. He spits out
                                                                                        > > the gravel and completely rearranges everything to
                                                                                        > his liking. They are
                                                                                        > > a hoot. I wouldn't mind getting another once we
                                                                                        > get the bigger tank
                                                                                        > > ready.
                                                                                        > > I just wish they weren't cross breeds. I really
                                                                                        > don't want to support
                                                                                        > > messing with nature. Are there any other fish
                                                                                        > like these that have
                                                                                        > > their own distinct personalities?
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                        > > From: Ron Hansen [mailto:yahoo1@...]
                                                                                        > > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 2:35 PM
                                                                                        > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown
                                                                                        > Spots
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > One of mine developed a spot like you describe
                                                                                        > except it's rectangular
                                                                                        > > and
                                                                                        > > black. Also, two of my Silver Dollars just
                                                                                        > developed a black fringe on
                                                                                        > > their tails.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > I don't think you have anything to worry about. I
                                                                                        > think it's a mating
                                                                                        > > or
                                                                                        > > dominance pigmentation. The two Silver Dollars
                                                                                        > started chasing everyone
                                                                                        > > off, so they may be preparing to mate.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Have you changed one of these in the past few
                                                                                        > days:
                                                                                        > > temperature
                                                                                        > > PH
                                                                                        > > light period (amount of time lights are on)
                                                                                        > > today is the vernal equinox - can the fish see the
                                                                                        > windows?
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Any of these can trigger mating behavior.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Dane & Leslie Moore said:
                                                                                        > >> This fish has yet another spot on him as of about
                                                                                        > 2 hours ago. His
                                                                                        > > fins
                                                                                        > >> have some brown on the edges and now there is a
                                                                                        > spot on each side of
                                                                                        > >> him, dark brown in color. He is normally very
                                                                                        > orange so I don't think
                                                                                        > >> it's color changing. I could really use some
                                                                                        > help with this. Even if
                                                                                        > >> no one knows what it is, maybe a good online
                                                                                        > source? I can't seem to
                                                                                        > >> find anything.
                                                                                        > >> Thanks.
                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                        > >> Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                        > when replying, thanks
                                                                                        > > .
                                                                                        > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                        > that is not important
                                                                                        > > to the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                        > original message modify
                                                                                        > > the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                        > subject)" <-, we
                                                                                        > > Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9358 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Algae eaters
                                                                                        if they are not over populated, they doi quite well.
                                                                                        they are social, but if they don't have enough food
                                                                                        they can't be social long. i keep 1 otto in a 3
                                                                                        gallon eclipse that i finished cycling for my grandma.
                                                                                        it contains a golden mystery snail, two af frogs, 1
                                                                                        betta, and 1 otto. between the snail and otto tehy
                                                                                        keep the algae down, but it is growing a lot as it
                                                                                        gets partial sun in the morning and has a flo light on
                                                                                        it.
                                                                                        --- agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > they are also pretty hard to keep.. if you get them
                                                                                        > to last 2 months you
                                                                                        > will have them around but no one I know has had luck
                                                                                        > keeping them past a few
                                                                                        > weeks... not hardy at all.. Shannon
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > take a look at oto cats (otocinclus). they're
                                                                                        > small, docile & cute, too =)
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >



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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9359 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Sounds fishy to me. :-)
                                                                                        Denise,
                                                                                        while we all agree that the situation in africa that
                                                                                        you are relating was and is a terrible travesty
                                                                                        against human kind, there is a place for everything,
                                                                                        and i do not feel that relating that specific
                                                                                        experience belongs here. while itis your right to say
                                                                                        what you want, i sincerely hope that you are not
                                                                                        attempting to make others feel ashamed for responding
                                                                                        in a very understandable manner. if you are going to
                                                                                        present yourself as soimething, you need to be
                                                                                        prepared to back it up, whether you are a native
                                                                                        speaker or not.
                                                                                        regards,
                                                                                        Paul
                                                                                        --- Denise <sandpiper@...> wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Yes, Marius has left the building....and too bad
                                                                                        > about the arrogance
                                                                                        > of a few people here. I had enough sense to pick up
                                                                                        > the phone and make
                                                                                        > a call to Cape Town City Counsel. Marius was telling
                                                                                        > the truth. The
                                                                                        > Koi are being purchased for a domestic aquaculture
                                                                                        > project. The
                                                                                        > proceeds are being used to clean up the Berg River
                                                                                        > so that the local
                                                                                        > black people in the township can fish in the river
                                                                                        > again. That is the
                                                                                        > connection with feeding people.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Marius didn't make total sense because English is
                                                                                        > not his native
                                                                                        > language...Afrikaans is.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I'll say one thing. I'm an African-American woman
                                                                                        > and I lived in South
                                                                                        > Africa durng the period of apartheid. I met many
                                                                                        > individuals like
                                                                                        > Marius, usually dead by the side of a road with a
                                                                                        > bullet in the back
                                                                                        > of the skull. The penalty at that time for an white
                                                                                        > Afrikaaner trying
                                                                                        > to help black people was summary execution by the
                                                                                        > SADF. I came across
                                                                                        > many bodies.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > One other thing, spammers post their spam and then
                                                                                        > immediately
                                                                                        > disappear. The average spammer doesn't stick around
                                                                                        > for the lynching.
                                                                                        > That's the major difference between a real spammer
                                                                                        > and a well-meaning,
                                                                                        > though imperfect human being.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Have a Blessed Day,
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Denise
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron"
                                                                                        > <massagetherapist@m...>
                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > ha ha lol, thats punny
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Marius has "left the building"
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > I thank you all for your feedback and
                                                                                        > > I apologize for creating such a stir by allowing
                                                                                        > the "Off Topic"
                                                                                        > > Material to get thru
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Aaron
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > now on to the fishy stuff as we return you back to
                                                                                        > our regularly
                                                                                        > > scheduled program
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rodrigo Jr.
                                                                                        > Marquez"
                                                                                        > > <la_rmarquezjr@y...> wrote:
                                                                                        > > > Sounds fishy to me. :-) , ...
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >



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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9360 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: info on guppy and mollies
                                                                                        female guppies are short finned and round bodied,
                                                                                        males are more brilliant colors, longer bodies, and
                                                                                        have longer fins. male swill constanly be chasing
                                                                                        females whenever present, even if they are already
                                                                                        pregnant.
                                                                                        --- Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > I am looking for some information sheets that I can
                                                                                        > print out on the care,sexing(photos) and breeding of
                                                                                        > Mollies and Guppies. If anyone knows of good sites
                                                                                        > and or books that are not too expensive that I can
                                                                                        > purchase- I am up for suggestions.
                                                                                        > Thanks
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Stacey
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > __________________________________________________
                                                                                        > Do You Yahoo!?
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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9361 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
                                                                                        Hello,

                                                                                        This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                                        a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the AquaticLife
                                                                                        group.

                                                                                        File : /TankCalc.exe
                                                                                        Uploaded by : tropicalfishman <massagetherapist@...>
                                                                                        Description : Aquarealms Tank Calculator

                                                                                        You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/TankCalc.exe

                                                                                        To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
                                                                                        http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

                                                                                        Regards,

                                                                                        tropicalfishman <massagetherapist@...>
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9362 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Tank cleaning
                                                                                        that is a bacterial bloom due to the fact taht fish
                                                                                        were added waaaay too early and the bacteria is trying
                                                                                        to reproduce fast enough to keep up with them.
                                                                                        --- TankGurl <fishgoddess@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 17:05:11 -0800 (PST), Stacey
                                                                                        > Mallow
                                                                                        > <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > I was curious to find out how often to clean a
                                                                                        > 10gallon tank with 3- Mollies
                                                                                        > > and 2-Guppies. I have only had the tank up for 5
                                                                                        > days and the water looks
                                                                                        > > little cloudy.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I'd give your tank a little more time to cycle and
                                                                                        > settle. While a
                                                                                        > 10-20% water change would be benefical, cleaning the
                                                                                        > tank would not.
                                                                                        > Cut back on your feedings if you think you might be
                                                                                        > overfeeding and
                                                                                        > let it be for a while.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Kelly
                                                                                        >



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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9363 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: To Aaron, Marius and all.
                                                                                        harry, in case you have not noticed, mostof us are
                                                                                        americans, and as such we freely use our freedom of
                                                                                        speech. if we do not see something as sincere, we
                                                                                        have the right to respond, whether you agree with it
                                                                                        or not. as long as no one is using foul language,
                                                                                        racism, or blatantly outrageous attacking stances, why
                                                                                        should you intervene?
                                                                                        --- harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > There seems to be some concern about Aaron's
                                                                                        > decision to support Marius in this group. Whether
                                                                                        > the claims are true or not what difference does it
                                                                                        > make? Has it cost anyone anything?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Did I miss something? or did I read that this
                                                                                        > person's goal was to help his fellow man/woman.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > A question. How does self-serving, ego centered
                                                                                        > posts benifit anyone? I am a proud moderator of this
                                                                                        > group and I don't remember Aaron appointing anyone
                                                                                        > as judge or jury.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > How do we know that this is not a case of one man
                                                                                        > trying to make a difference? E-mails are easy Taking
                                                                                        > action and doing something is another story.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Harry.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > ---------------------------------
                                                                                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                        > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!



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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9364 From: paul helms Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Tank cleaning
                                                                                        if it is setup right, cleaning is irrelevant. water
                                                                                        changes will be necessary, but if you have some botom
                                                                                        feereds like cori cats, they will clean the bottom, 2
                                                                                        ottos will clean the algae, and nothing else will be
                                                                                        needed,
                                                                                        --- Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > I was curious to find out how often to clean a
                                                                                        > 10gallon tank with 3- Mollies and 2-Guppies. I have
                                                                                        > only had the tank up for 5 days and the water looks
                                                                                        > little cloudy.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Stacey
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > __________________________________________________
                                                                                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                                                                                        > protection around
                                                                                        > http://mail.yahoo.com



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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9365 From: antonios75@yahoo.com Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Photo of the Month Contest
                                                                                        Please place your vote for photo of the month on Reefgossip.com

                                                                                        http://www.reefgossip.com/public_html/viewtopic.php?t=317
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9366 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: confused
                                                                                        In a message dated 3/21/2005 10:11:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:
                                                                                        i guess price is relative to location, as ottos run
                                                                                        about 5-6 dollars each in california, where a medium
                                                                                        pleco runs about 8 bucks
                                                                                        Where do you live?
                                                                                        I found a place in the Central valley, Modesto, that sells them a buck a piece.  Probably no where close to you, it's not very close to me either, but I picked up some when I was out there one day and they are the best batch I have gotten yet.  None died : )
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Mike
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9367 From: Aaron Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Photo of the WEEK (was - ...Month Contest)
                                                                                        You are all invited to submit photos for the AquaticLife Groups Home
                                                                                        Page.
                                                                                        I had been changing Pictures sorta randomly every few days or so.

                                                                                        I'm trying to find pictures that have something to do with the
                                                                                        current topics. For example, there is a new photo of a Flower Horn
                                                                                        on the Home page.

                                                                                        So if any body has a picture that would go with the topic of
                                                                                        the "Blood Parrots Brown Spots", it would be up next.

                                                                                        Thanks,
                                                                                        Aaron





                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9368 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                        In a message dated 3/21/2005 8:12:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, amalthea23@... writes:
                                                                                        again, they're NOT hacked off. many are bred specifically for the "no
                                                                                        tail" trait. do some research on this before accepting anything you
                                                                                        hear.
                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                        Well I tend to trust Patrick on a lot of aquatic things and whether it comes from his email or some website also made by a hobbiest neither one could be considered an "Official" answer to a question regarding bad breeding habits and bad genetic lines.  So if I did research as you commanded without reading Patricks comments I could have come up with the same answers. But thanks for setting me straight there on accepting things.
                                                                                        Mike 
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9369 From: harry perry Date: 3/21/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: To Aaron, Marius and all./To Paul
                                                                                        Just using my American free speech to voice my opinion. Okay with you?
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Harry

                                                                                        paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                        harry, in case you have not noticed, mostof us are
                                                                                        americans, and as such we freely use our freedom of
                                                                                        speech.  if we do not see something as sincere, we
                                                                                        have the right to respond, whether you agree with it
                                                                                        or not.  as long as no one is using foul language,
                                                                                        racism, or blatantly outrageous attacking stances, why
                                                                                        should you intervene?
                                                                                        --- harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > There seems to be some concern about Aaron's
                                                                                        > decision to support Marius in this group. Whether
                                                                                        > the claims are true or not what difference does it
                                                                                        > make? Has it cost anyone anything?

                                                                                        > Did I miss something? or did I read that this
                                                                                        > person's goal was to help his fellow man/woman.

                                                                                        > A question. How does self-serving, ego centered
                                                                                        > posts benifit anyone? I am a proud moderator of this
                                                                                        > group and I don't remember Aaron appointing anyone
                                                                                        > as judge or jury.

                                                                                        > How do we know that this is not a case of one man
                                                                                        > trying to make a difference? E-mails are easy Taking
                                                                                        > action and doing something is another story.

                                                                                        > Harry. 
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >            
                                                                                        > ---------------------------------
                                                                                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                        >  Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!


                                                                                                   
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                                                                                        .
                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9370 From: eggybumstu Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: confused, Pleco needing bogwood
                                                                                        Stev wrote in a previous post that all plec's need some form of
                                                                                        bogwood in their tanks and it is part of their diet. I'm not sure
                                                                                        all species of loricarins but it is true that the substance found in
                                                                                        the wood is Lignin and this is key to their well being as it aids
                                                                                        their digestion. It is also wise to note that not all "plecs" are
                                                                                        algae eaters by rule and some will scavenge on debris or even plant
                                                                                        matter.

                                                                                        The best species I have found are the Bristlenose/Bushynose plec and
                                                                                        a mature male and female will breed in the correct conditions
                                                                                        without much fuss. They only reach 5inches tops and are peaceful
                                                                                        active little fish.

                                                                                        As has been mentioned check out www.planetcatfish.com and research,
                                                                                        research,research, before you and up with a tank buster on your hands

                                                                                        Cheesr stu :D
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9371 From: mrfabus Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                        Subject: eels question
                                                                                        how often do they eat cause i have yet seen them eat and i want to
                                                                                        make sure Im not doing anything wrong. tHERE ARE 3 EELS AND 3 GAR
                                                                                        PIKE. Any info would be nice. Thank you
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9372 From: Aaron Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                        Subject: $1 otos (was "Re: confused")
                                                                                        Hi,

                                                                                        I'm in Livermore and in need of a couple dozen or so otos myself if
                                                                                        you are ever heading back out there. In case not, do you know the
                                                                                        stores name? I'd consider going out there myself as most the store
                                                                                        here are a bit expensive.

                                                                                        Aaron

                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife....
                                                                                        > I found a place in the Central valley, Modesto, that sells them a
                                                                                        buck a
                                                                                        > piece. Probably no where close to you, it's not very close to me
                                                                                        either, but I
                                                                                        > picked up some when I was out there one day and they are the best
                                                                                        batch I
                                                                                        > have gotten yet. None died : )
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Mike
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9373 From: jazz Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Algea Eaters
                                                                                        SOME species of plecostamus can grow to a great dimension ,I had two that in two years until I gave them away in a 1 metre aquarium had grown to an astonishing 14inches,they are relatively quite peaceful animals,they require hiding places and eat everything given.
                                                                                        joseph
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 5:09 AM
                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Algea Eaters

                                                                                        I had a pleco for over a year and it got to be about 12 inches or so. I had it in a 30 gallon extra high tank. I had to give it to the fish store it was so big. I fed mine one algea wafer a day and it did great. I was told by the fish store that they can get up to 2 feet or so in size and live for many years.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Lief Youngs


                                                                                        ++++++++++++++++++++Lief Youngs++++++++++++++++++++
                                                                                        http://geocities.com/SouthBeach/Mansion/4739
                                                                                        Colorado State University Graduate May 2004
                                                                                        B.S. Bioagricultural Sciences major
                                                                                        B.S. Agricultural Business major
                                                                                        +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                                                                        To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift. -- Steve Prefontaine


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                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                        .
                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9374 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                        Subject: Re: $1 otos (was "Re: confused")
                                                                                        In a message dated 3/22/2005 1:01:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, massagetherapist@... writes:

                                                                                        Hi,

                                                                                        I'm in Livermore and in need of a couple dozen or so otos myself if
                                                                                        you are ever heading back out there. In case not, do you know the
                                                                                        stores name? I'd consider going out there myself as most the store
                                                                                        here are a bit expensive.

                                                                                        Aaron
                                                                                        Hey Aaron,
                                                                                        Haven't spoken with you in a while.
                                                                                        The place is called Tropical Haven and is a pretty good store for the Central valley.  Lot's of cichlids as well as some Killifish and live bearers.  If I get a chance to head out there I will send you an email, but it probably won't be for a while.  I am moving back to Contra Costa from Alameda County and now I have about 11 or 12 tanks instead of the 4 I had last time I moved, so moving will be time consuming.
                                                                                        Mike
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9375 From: jazz Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                        Subject: introduction
                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                          I would like to introduce to this group The Malta Aquarist Society.founded in 1970.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          SHOULD ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO VISIT OUR WEB CORNER
                                                                                          PLEASE GO TO
                                                                                           
                                                                                           
                                                                                           
                                                                                           
                                                                                          the fish on the logo is the "Buzaqq"  Maltese for Aphanius Fasciatus the only fresh /brackish water  fish found on our island Malta.
                                                                                          THANKS
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9376 From: CBlnds8@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: water tester ?
                                                                                          We have a super Calmar by us. And yes the tanks are not perfect but we have gotten most of our fish from them over the years. And we have bought some from the 2 local fish stores in our area one is the tropical fish cove. And the other store is brothers pets. He has also has his own web site.http://www.brotherspets.com/
                                                                                           We have had good luck with all three. To be honest I have had better luck with Walmarts fish than Pets Mart & Petco. We have bought fish from  them over the years and had more trouble with there fish.  Just giving my 2 cents worth Ken.
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9377 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: introduction
                                                                                          Nice group, Impressive Description on the Groups Home Page, however
                                                                                          it does seem to be suspiciously familiar?!




                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jazz" <jazz001@d...> wrote:
                                                                                          > I would like to introduce to this group The Malta Aquarist
                                                                                          Society.founded in 1970.
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/buzaqq/
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > the fish on the logo is the "Buzaqq" Maltese for Aphanius
                                                                                          Fasciatus the only fresh /brackish water fish found on our island
                                                                                          Malta.
                                                                                          > THANKS
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9378 From: Aaron Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: introduction
                                                                                          Ha Ha LOL, That's hilarious!

                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R. Martin, cmt"
                                                                                          <anonymous122899@y...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Nice group, Impressive Description on the Groups Home Page,
                                                                                          however
                                                                                          > it does seem to be suspiciously familiar?!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jazz" <jazz001@d...> wrote:
                                                                                          > > I would like to introduce to this group The Malta Aquarist
                                                                                          > Society.founded in 1970.
                                                                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/buzaqq/
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > the fish on the logo is the "Buzaqq" Maltese for Aphanius
                                                                                          > Fasciatus the only fresh /brackish water fish found on our island
                                                                                          > Malta.
                                                                                          > > THANKS
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9379 From: jazz Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: introduction
                                                                                          why is it -Ha Ha LOL, That's hilarious!?
                                                                                          ---- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: "Aaron" <massagetherapist@...>
                                                                                          To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 11:53 AM
                                                                                          Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: introduction


                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Ha Ha LOL, That's hilarious!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R. Martin, cmt"
                                                                                          > <anonymous122899@y...> wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Nice group, Impressive Description on the Groups Home Page,
                                                                                          > however
                                                                                          > > it does seem to be suspiciously familiar?!
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jazz" <jazz001@d...> wrote:
                                                                                          > > > I would like to introduce to this group The Malta Aquarist
                                                                                          > > Society.founded in 1970.
                                                                                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/buzaqq/
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > the fish on the logo is the "Buzaqq" Maltese for Aphanius
                                                                                          > > Fasciatus the only fresh /brackish water fish found on our island
                                                                                          > > Malta.
                                                                                          > > > THANKS
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                          > .
                                                                                          > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                          the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                          subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                          in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9380 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: introduction
                                                                                          Why is it hilarious what's wrong with having a an
                                                                                          aquarist society?

                                                                                          Nigel
                                                                                          --- jazz <jazz001@...> wrote:
                                                                                          ---------------------------------
                                                                                          why is it -Ha Ha LOL, That's hilarious!?
                                                                                          ---- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: "Aaron" <massagetherapist@...>
                                                                                          To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 11:53 AM
                                                                                          Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: introduction


                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Ha Ha LOL, That's hilarious!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R.
                                                                                          Martin, cmt"
                                                                                          > <anonymous122899@y...> wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Nice group, Impressive Description on the Groups
                                                                                          Home Page,
                                                                                          > however
                                                                                          > > it does seem to be suspiciously familiar?!
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jazz"
                                                                                          <jazz001@d...> wrote:
                                                                                          > > > I would like to introduce to this group The
                                                                                          Malta Aquarist
                                                                                          > > Society.founded in 1970.
                                                                                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/buzaqq/
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > the fish on the logo is the "Buzaqq" Maltese
                                                                                          for Aphanius
                                                                                          > > Fasciatus the only fresh /brackish water fish
                                                                                          found on our island
                                                                                          > > Malta.
                                                                                          > > > THANKS
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                          replying, thanks
                                                                                          > .
                                                                                          > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                          that is not important to
                                                                                          the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                          message modify the
                                                                                          subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                          subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                          in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >



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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9381 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: hi everyone
                                                                                          Hello

                                                                                          so here's something about myself i am a 21 year old
                                                                                          Student studying IT and well my hobby is as all of you
                                                                                          have guessed fish! I live in Malta and i am a member
                                                                                          of the Malta Aquarist society! I have been keeping
                                                                                          fish for the last 11 years now and i know some stuff
                                                                                          about them!!
                                                                                          At the moment in my tanks i have malawi cichlids,
                                                                                          tilapia balloon mollies, haplos, skunk loaches,
                                                                                          pakistani loaches, upside down catfish, the real
                                                                                          upside down catfish, kuhli loaches, dwarf Gouramis,
                                                                                          leopard danios and apple snails. At the moment i am so
                                                                                          short of fish becuase i had a major disaster as my
                                                                                          accidentally toxic chemicals (a whole bottle of
                                                                                          Kitchen cleaner detergent) fell in my filter tank that
                                                                                          provides water to the tanks. I lost more than 200 fish
                                                                                          in less than a day and well i had a whole disaster! I
                                                                                          had to leave the tanks outside for all January and
                                                                                          February in the rain and sun so that they are
                                                                                          thoroughly cleaned and i dumped my filtration system
                                                                                          and made an individual tank system! i lost alot really
                                                                                          alot!! bettas, dwarf cichlids, kribs, loaches,
                                                                                          Gouramis, minnows, puffers, and many many other! but
                                                                                          life must go on!!
                                                                                          So that's practically me and what is left from my
                                                                                          fish! but i will soon start again i need to fill my
                                                                                          tanks!!

                                                                                          Nigel Chetcuti

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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9382 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: confused
                                                                                          West Virginia
                                                                                          Stacey

                                                                                          Deenerz@... wrote:
                                                                                          In a message dated 3/21/2005 10:11:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:
                                                                                          i guess price is relative to location, as ottos run
                                                                                          about 5-6 dollars each in california, where a medium
                                                                                          pleco runs about 8 bucks
                                                                                          Where do you live?
                                                                                          I found a place in the Central valley, Modesto, that sells them a buck a piece.  Probably no where close to you, it's not very close to me either, but I picked up some when I was out there one day and they are the best batch I have gotten yet.  None died : )
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Mike


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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9383 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                          (You say that these are other people's opinions, but your wording lower
                                                                                          down shows that you share them.)


                                                                                          Not to beat a VERY dead horse, but you feel that genetically modified fish
                                                                                          are less natural than two species trying to mate that never would have met
                                                                                          in the wild? Hmmm. What if a scientist, in a lab, artificially
                                                                                          inseminated a donkey with a horse's sperm? Would that be less natural
                                                                                          than if the two animals simply met in a barn? Would it cross your line?
                                                                                          Is a barn a natural environment?

                                                                                          For that matter, what about the attempts to bring back the Quagga? It is
                                                                                          extinct, but scientists are trying to clone one from the DNA of a
                                                                                          stuffed quagga. The surrogate mother would be a horse.

                                                                                          Scientists also hope to clone a Wooley Mammoth in the next decade
                                                                                          (elephant surrogate), but they may try to back-breed it instead. THAT
                                                                                          would be a hybrid that could NEVER appear in nature, as the Wooley Mammoth
                                                                                          died out milenia ago.

                                                                                          My point is not whether un-natural hybrids are good or bad, but rather to
                                                                                          question why are you making a distinction between genetic material passed
                                                                                          directly between two animals that could never have met without human
                                                                                          intervention, and some scientist somewhere performing the transfer.

                                                                                          As has been stated elsewhere, in the case of ALL dogs, "man has stepped in
                                                                                          to create a new species". In many cases, "where it is not needed".

                                                                                          Specifically in the case of Glofish, it is not a case of "where it is not
                                                                                          needed". Glofish were developed for a specific need and then later sold
                                                                                          as a curiosity.

                                                                                          And more on topic, Blood Parrots are created by putting two disparate fish
                                                                                          together in a tank and they "go about their business if living near
                                                                                          eachother". The fact that they are predominantly sterile eliminates any
                                                                                          arguments about species displacement in the wild.


                                                                                          paul helms said:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > i think that some people who have issues with cross
                                                                                          > bred fish for sale in the market, have issues because
                                                                                          > some of teh cross breeds are lab created, would not
                                                                                          > occure in nature ever. it is not that two unrelated
                                                                                          > fish bred, but rather that man has stepped in to
                                                                                          > create a new species, where it is not needed. in the
                                                                                          > case of mules, a wild donkey and a wild horse will
                                                                                          > mate. yes i do realize that the spanish imported the
                                                                                          > horse, and that it would not naturally happen here as
                                                                                          > the horse does not "belong" here, but the fact is that
                                                                                          > they will go about their business if living near
                                                                                          > eachother. i am not saying that i do or do not agree
                                                                                          > with the breeding of unrelated fish, but just as a
                                                                                          > point for both sides i thought i would add comments.
                                                                                          > if the fish can be crossbred without genetic
                                                                                          > manipulation, there is nothing expressly impossible
                                                                                          > about it. improbable yes, impossible no. this
                                                                                          > discussion has already occured wiuthin the last year,
                                                                                          > but i do realize that there are many new members here.
                                                                                          > --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >> They are sterile, so who cares if they are
                                                                                          >> cross-breeds. Mules and Ligers
                                                                                          >> are wonderful animals and are the same basic
                                                                                          >> concept.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> Yes, Blood Parrots have very social natures. There
                                                                                          >> are other fish that do
                                                                                          >> too, but you aren't going to want any of them in the
                                                                                          >> same tank.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> Oscars have wonderful personalities, but they will
                                                                                          >> grow very large and
                                                                                          >> will bully the Parrots and will also eat the smaller
                                                                                          >> fish.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> On the other end of the spectrum, Paradise fish show
                                                                                          >> many of the same
                                                                                          >> traits, but they are small and will be bullied or
                                                                                          >> eaten by the parrots.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> Dane & Leslie Moore said:
                                                                                          >> > Half of the living room is glass doors and they
                                                                                          >> are near these. That's
                                                                                          >> > so weird.
                                                                                          >> > The blood parrots are apparently very well known
                                                                                          >> for the personalities.
                                                                                          >> > I have grown SO attached to both of them, even the
                                                                                          >> bully. He spits out
                                                                                          >> > the gravel and completely rearranges everything to
                                                                                          >> his liking. They are
                                                                                          >> > a hoot. I wouldn't mind getting another once we
                                                                                          >> get the bigger tank
                                                                                          >> > ready.
                                                                                          >> > I just wish they weren't cross breeds. I really
                                                                                          >> don't want to support
                                                                                          >> > messing with nature. Are there any other fish
                                                                                          >> like these that have
                                                                                          >> > their own distinct personalities?
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                          >> > From: Ron Hansen [mailto:yahoo1@...]
                                                                                          >> > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 2:35 PM
                                                                                          >> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown
                                                                                          >> Spots
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> > One of mine developed a spot like you describe
                                                                                          >> except it's rectangular
                                                                                          >> > and
                                                                                          >> > black. Also, two of my Silver Dollars just
                                                                                          >> developed a black fringe on
                                                                                          >> > their tails.
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> > I don't think you have anything to worry about. I
                                                                                          >> think it's a mating
                                                                                          >> > or
                                                                                          >> > dominance pigmentation. The two Silver Dollars
                                                                                          >> started chasing everyone
                                                                                          >> > off, so they may be preparing to mate.
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> > Have you changed one of these in the past few
                                                                                          >> days:
                                                                                          >> > temperature
                                                                                          >> > PH
                                                                                          >> > light period (amount of time lights are on)
                                                                                          >> > today is the vernal equinox - can the fish see the
                                                                                          >> windows?
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> > Any of these can trigger mating behavior.
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> > Dane & Leslie Moore said:
                                                                                          >> >> This fish has yet another spot on him as of about
                                                                                          >> 2 hours ago. His
                                                                                          >> > fins
                                                                                          >> >> have some brown on the edges and now there is a
                                                                                          >> spot on each side of
                                                                                          >> >> him, dark brown in color. He is normally very
                                                                                          >> orange so I don't think
                                                                                          >> >> it's color changing. I could really use some
                                                                                          >> help with this. Even if
                                                                                          >> >> no one knows what it is, maybe a good online
                                                                                          >> source? I can't seem to
                                                                                          >> >> find anything.
                                                                                          >> >> Thanks.
                                                                                          >> >>
                                                                                          >> >> Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                          >> >>
                                                                                          >> >>
                                                                                          >> >>
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> >
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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9384 From: daniel_roachus Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: confused
                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > the ottos are very small.. and in my opinion are not very hardy
                                                                                          they need
                                                                                          > some food like algae wafer.. as well does a pleco.. a pleco is much
                                                                                          bigger but
                                                                                          > wont exceed 3 inches and are very calm...

                                                                                          Plecos stay to 3 inches???
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9385 From: Genevieve Floberg Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: confused
                                                                                          plecos get much larger then 3 inches

                                                                                          daniel_roachus <daniel_roach@...> wrote:

                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:

                                                                                          > the ottos are very small.. and in my opinion are not very hardy
                                                                                          they need 
                                                                                          > some food like algae wafer.. as well does a pleco.. a pleco is much
                                                                                          bigger but 
                                                                                          > wont exceed 3 inches and are very calm...

                                                                                          Plecos stay to 3 inches???






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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9386 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Algae eaters
                                                                                          I found this weblink on "otocinclus" interesting. I think I'm going to have to get me a couple of these guys to assist in keeping the tank clean ;) They won't eat the live plants though, right?

                                                                                          http://www.otocinclus.com/

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                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                          From: infomehlb [mailto:infomehlb@...]
                                                                                          Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 3:15 PM
                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae eaters




                                                                                          I would have to agree. In my tanks, the otocinclus do an awesome job
                                                                                          of keeping minor algae in check. The otto's can be very delicate
                                                                                          fish in that they are sensitive to water quality and water temp. I
                                                                                          speak from only my own experience. When my water quality suffered so
                                                                                          did my otto's and when the temp jumped up to 86 degrees from a
                                                                                          malfuntioning heater, the otto's activity slowed way down. They are
                                                                                          very inexpensive. You should not have to pay more than $1.70 each.


                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                          <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                          > They are clingly little devils =) I had the same thing happen last
                                                                                          night when I added 2 different
                                                                                          > ones to two different tanks. I couldn't get them off the net and
                                                                                          into the tank! But once in the
                                                                                          > tank they immediately went to town on the walls of the tanks, the
                                                                                          filters, the silk plants,
                                                                                          > everything!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- The Dragon Hunter <dragon.hunter@d...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > They can be real phun watching the person at the LFS get out of
                                                                                          the tank as
                                                                                          > > often they will quickly latch on to the net. Last time I bought
                                                                                          some, it
                                                                                          > > took them a good 15 min. to get me the 5 I wanted. I couldn't
                                                                                          help but
                                                                                          > > laugh s the little buggers would latch on and would not come out
                                                                                          of the net.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > > From: "Valeen Gonzalez" <valeendgonzalez@y...>
                                                                                          > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          > > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 12:40 PM
                                                                                          > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae eaters
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > take a look at oto cats (otocinclus). they're small, docile &
                                                                                          cute, too =)
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > --- agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                          > > > > ive had just about all the different kinds of algae eaters
                                                                                          out there and
                                                                                          > > I
                                                                                          > > > > was most impressed with the rubber lipped pleco.. very docile
                                                                                          and works
                                                                                          > > hard...
                                                                                          > > > > Shannon
                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                          > > > > What are good algae eaters? I have heard snails,hermit
                                                                                          crabs,and those
                                                                                          > > that
                                                                                          > > > > grow too big. Is there any that stay small? I was concerned
                                                                                          about them
                                                                                          > > eating
                                                                                          > > > > my Mollies and Guppies-do they? Sorry for all the ?'s today.
                                                                                          > > > > Stacey
                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > >






                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks . Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9387 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                              I'm not making it up.  It might be made up, but this is one of the things I have read about these fish on the anti-bp sites.  This may be a wild rumor, but it has been around for a while.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Patrick
                                                                                           
                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                          no, actually many are bred without the tails. this is a natural variant
                                                                                          to the process, they're not "docked." please don't wildly spread
                                                                                          rumors.
                                                                                          amalthea
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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9388 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Algae eater-Thanks
                                                                                          I want to Thank You for the advice on Algae eaters-I have decided to go with the ottos. I have called the 2 Pet Stores I deal with so they do not have any of these. I may have to forget it or try to find a website that carries them and ships them I hate to pay 25.00 for shipping though. I will have to do some checking into this. Thank you for the Help.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Stacey Happy Easter Bunny 






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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9389 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                          In a message dated 3/22/2005 12:42:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, steve@... writes:


                                                                                          The only work done with fish is to make them more saleable, or purportedly
                                                                                          more saleable. This would be in line with certain dog breeds like the
                                                                                          Cockapoos--a cross between a poodle and a cocker spaniel. No real need was
                                                                                          fulfilled by creating this breed--similar to long finned varieties of many
                                                                                          species of fish, or the albinos, or the color varieties, etc.
                                                                                          Breeding "Cockapoos" (or anything "poos") are considered extremely unethical among ethical, responsible dog breeders. Most breeds developed over a number of years (in many cases centuries) due in large part to survival of the fittest and the best workers in specific fields in specific locales being the ones chosen to breed. Most "poos" or other "designer mixes" are never bred past F1, the phenotype and temperament cannot be guaranteed (buyers stupid enough to buy them for their "hybrid vigor" get this nasty surprise when they get the "non-hypoallergenic" puppy, etc) and genetic testing is virtually unknown. There may not have been poodles ranging the Serengeti, but, since it is believed by genetic mapping that most dogs descend from the Asiatic Wolf, there are a number of *ancient*, *unmessed with* breeds of dog, especially in Europe, Asia and Africa: Basenji, Tibetan Mastiff, Samoyed.....
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Using Cockerpoos as an example, I would buy, using the Poodle? LOL, no. *Quite* old breed that developed 'naturally' in Germany as a result of isolation and opportunity.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          To make this fish related, ;-) breeding Cockerpoos to dog people is like mixing limited captive strains of CITES fish -- NOT DONE.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          All my hopes,
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Vicky
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9390 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                              I agree with amalthea.  DON'T TRUST ANYTHING ON THE INTERNET! :)  You would be surprised at how much bad stuff there is out there.  Where do you think I read that their tails are cut?!  So while that means don't trust me too, any research you do on-line that could show me to be wrong could also be wrong.  Who knows, I might be a French puppy mill owner named Jane, or the only blood parrot farmer in Thailand that thinks the only way to make the valentine variety is to cut their tails...
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Patrick
                                                                                           
                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                          Well I tend to trust Patrick on a lot of aquatic things and whether it comes from his email or some website also made by a hobbiest neither one could be considered an "Official" answer to a question regarding bad breeding habits and bad genetic lines.  So if I did research as you commanded without reading Patricks comments I could have come up with the same answers. But thanks for setting me straight there on accepting things.
                                                                                          Mike 
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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9391 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                          Message
                                                                                          Yes, and be careful on eBay! ;)  I just got my chain jerked.  I bought a CO2 tank on EBay.  The seller said it was off an old Pepsi machine he had that he used at fairs and stuff.  I took it to a welding shop to get it filled, and they said they couldn't fill it, because Pepsi owned the tank,  Tried two other places with the end result, they wouldn't fill it.  Went to the seller to get my money back.  He refused.  Apparently he had no problems getting it filled anywhere he wanted in California.  Oh well, win some you loose some.  My suggestion would be, to be on the safe side, do not buy a tank identified as being a beverage company's tank, like Pepsi, or Coca Cola.  I'm out $50, it was a 20lb tank, so no real big loss here.  I just ordered a brand new tank to stay on the safe side this time ;)  Oh, and Pepsi is giving me $10 for returning their tank.  Isn't that generous of them ;)
                                                                                          --
                                                                                          Chat with you later,
                                                                                          Alan
                                                                                          --
                                                                                          Chandler, Arizona        Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                          http://www.GardenersCorner.com
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                                                                                          *****  Never judge a man by his taglines.
                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                          From: Patrick, American Fish Guy [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 7:15 AM
                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                              I agree with amalthea.  DON'T TRUST ANYTHING ON THE INTERNET! :)  You would be surprised at how much bad stuff there is out there.  Where do you think I read that their tails are cut?!  So while that means don't trust me too, any research you do on-line that could show me to be wrong could also be wrong.  Who knows, I might be a French puppy mill owner named Jane, or the only blood parrot farmer in Thailand that thinks the only way to make the valentine variety is to cut their tails...
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Patrick
                                                                                           
                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                          Well I tend to trust Patrick on a lot of aquatic things and whether it comes from his email or some website also made by a hobbiest neither one could be considered an "Official" answer to a question regarding bad breeding habits and bad genetic lines.  So if I did research as you commanded without reading Patricks comments I could have come up with the same answers. But thanks for setting me straight there on accepting things.
                                                                                          Mike 
                                                                                          Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9392 From: TankGurl Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: ideas for our 29 gal. tank
                                                                                          On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 00:05:43 -0000, Ray Wetzel
                                                                                          <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Browsing through my email for this Forum, something hit me like a ton
                                                                                          > of bricks. Noticed below you keep SA Cichlids. This may be a
                                                                                          > strange question, but can I assume by "SA" you mean South American?

                                                                                          Ahh..sorry about that. I meant African Cichlids..not south american.
                                                                                          (although I'd love to keep a south american tank..the fish species are
                                                                                          lovely) I was at a South African political site prior to posting and
                                                                                          must have had SA on the brain. Hope I didn't scare you too much. :)

                                                                                          Kelly
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9393 From: FrankTimJr@comcast.net Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling Not Working
                                                                                          There is no ammonia in our tap water here in NJ either. I took
                                                                                          Paul's adivce and did a 100% water change. Basically I started
                                                                                          over, but this time, I purchased one Zebra Danio to start off with.

                                                                                          I changed everything on Saturday and bought the fish on Sunday. As
                                                                                          of today, the levels are as follows:

                                                                                          pH: 6.4
                                                                                          Ammonia: 0
                                                                                          Nitrites: 0

                                                                                          My assumption here is that the ammonia levels will start to increase
                                                                                          in a week or so and the cycle will begin.

                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                          <patrickmn1@h...> wrote:
                                                                                          > I don't think most people have any ammonia in their water, at
                                                                                          least I
                                                                                          > don't. Leaving plain tap water for me would never get anywhere.
                                                                                          I am sure
                                                                                          > it works for you out in CA, but here in TN we have to add some
                                                                                          ammonia. I
                                                                                          > prefer letting the fish do that for me. :)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Remember our old debates on this topic? :)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Patrick
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9394 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Crossbreeding

                                                                                          I myself have tons of opinions on this matter.  They are educated opinions and hold a lot of ground.  But it doesn’t make any difference.  I could type till my fingers fall off and it wouldn’t convince everyone here.  Just as the points previously made aren’t going to go over well with everyone here.  Agree to disagree.  

                                                                                           

                                                                                          And as far as chopping off fish tails, it sounds unlikely but I have often been horrifically surprised by human actions against helpless animals, so I wouldn’t put it past someone to do that.  I also wouldn’t toss the idea that it is in the breeding of genetics either.  I don’t have any proof, so I don’t know for sure.  Because of this, I’m not going to act like my opinion is the ONLY opinion and those of you that don’t agree with me are WRONG.    

                                                                                           

                                                                                          So let’s consider ourselves a little more well-read by this.  =)

                                                                                           

                                                                                          At the very least, share your opinions as just that, opinions.  And don’t go knocking someone else for having an opinion different than yours.  I for one like reading what everyone has to say.  It just needs to stay impersonal and not be directed at what someone said as a personal attack.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Ciao’!

                                                                                           

                                                                                           

                                                                                           

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9395 From: infomehlb Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Algae eaters
                                                                                          No, Otto's will not eat your plants but they will clean the algae off
                                                                                          of the leaves

                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Zelhart Alan-rpcs30
                                                                                          <alan.zelhart@f...> wrote:
                                                                                          > I found this weblink on "otocinclus" interesting. I think I'm
                                                                                          going to have to get me a couple of these guys to assist in keeping
                                                                                          the tank clean ;) They won't eat the live plants though, right?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > http://www.otocinclus.com/
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --
                                                                                          > Chat with you later,
                                                                                          > Alan
                                                                                          > --
                                                                                          > Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                          > http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                          > -----
                                                                                          > *** Five new gardening mail list now available on
                                                                                          GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                                          > *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners',
                                                                                          and AntiqueRoses
                                                                                          > *** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening list
                                                                                          called "OutGardening".
                                                                                          > *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your
                                                                                          address.
                                                                                          > *** Check them out at:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/listinfo/
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ***** Never judge a man by his taglines.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                          > From: infomehlb [mailto:infomehlb@y...]
                                                                                          > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 3:15 PM
                                                                                          > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae eaters
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I would have to agree. In my tanks, the otocinclus do an awesome
                                                                                          job
                                                                                          > of keeping minor algae in check. The otto's can be very delicate
                                                                                          > fish in that they are sensitive to water quality and water temp. I
                                                                                          > speak from only my own experience. When my water quality suffered
                                                                                          so
                                                                                          > did my otto's and when the temp jumped up to 86 degrees from a
                                                                                          > malfuntioning heater, the otto's activity slowed way down. They
                                                                                          are
                                                                                          > very inexpensive. You should not have to pay more than $1.70 each.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                          > <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                          > > They are clingly little devils =) I had the same thing happen last
                                                                                          > night when I added 2 different
                                                                                          > > ones to two different tanks. I couldn't get them off the net and
                                                                                          > into the tank! But once in the
                                                                                          > > tank they immediately went to town on the walls of the tanks, the
                                                                                          > filters, the silk plants,
                                                                                          > > everything!
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > --- The Dragon Hunter <dragon.hunter@d...> wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > > They can be real phun watching the person at the LFS get out of
                                                                                          > the tank as
                                                                                          > > > often they will quickly latch on to the net. Last time I bought
                                                                                          > some, it
                                                                                          > > > took them a good 15 min. to get me the 5 I wanted. I couldn't
                                                                                          > help but
                                                                                          > > > laugh s the little buggers would latch on and would not come out
                                                                                          > of the net.
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > > > From: "Valeen Gonzalez" <valeendgonzalez@y...>
                                                                                          > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          > > > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 12:40 PM
                                                                                          > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae eaters
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                          > > > > take a look at oto cats (otocinclus). they're small, docile &
                                                                                          > cute, too =)
                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                          > > > > --- agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                          > > > > >
                                                                                          > > > > > ive had just about all the different kinds of algae eaters
                                                                                          > out there and
                                                                                          > > > I
                                                                                          > > > > > was most impressed with the rubber lipped pleco.. very
                                                                                          docile
                                                                                          > and works
                                                                                          > > > hard...
                                                                                          > > > > > Shannon
                                                                                          > > > > >
                                                                                          > > > > > What are good algae eaters? I have heard snails,hermit
                                                                                          > crabs,and those
                                                                                          > > > that
                                                                                          > > > > > grow too big. Is there any that stay small? I was concerned
                                                                                          > about them
                                                                                          > > > eating
                                                                                          > > > > > my Mollies and Guppies-do they? Sorry for all the ?'s
                                                                                          today.
                                                                                          > > > > > Stacey
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9396 From: Amalthea Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                          i know that information is available online, but it doesn't make it so.
                                                                                          it is, however just another type of deformity bred into the fish, the
                                                                                          same as any other. like the stumpy legs of a corgi or a munchkin.
                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                          Get em' while they're cheap!
                                                                                          Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the
                                                                                          Basement....
                                                                                          http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
                                                                                          On Mar 22, 2005, at 9:06 AM, Patrick, American Fish Guy wrote:

                                                                                          >     I'm not making it up.  It might be made up, but this is one of
                                                                                          > the things I have read about these fish on the anti-bp sites.  This
                                                                                          > may be a wild rumor, but it has been around for a while.
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > Patrick
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                          > no, actually many are bred without the tails. this is a natural variant
                                                                                          > to the process, they're not "docked." please don't wildly spread
                                                                                          > rumors.
                                                                                          > amalthea
                                                                                          > http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                          > Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > <imstp_emo_en.gif>
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                          > .
                                                                                          > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                          > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                          > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                          > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9397 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: confused
                                                                                          i just bout 6 otos last night at my lfs here in the san francisco bay area's peninsula, & they were $2.95/each.

                                                                                          Deenerz@... wrote:
                                                                                          In a message dated 3/21/2005 10:11:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:
                                                                                          i guess price is relative to location, as ottos run
                                                                                          about 5-6 dollars each in california, where a medium
                                                                                          pleco runs about 8 bucks
                                                                                          Where do you live?
                                                                                          I found a place in the Central valley, Modesto, that sells them a buck a piece.  Probably no where close to you, it's not very close to me either, but I picked up some when I was out there one day and they are the best batch I have gotten yet.  None died : )
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Mike


                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                          .
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                                                                                          Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9398 From: Karima Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Otto's
                                                                                          Can someone direct me to a photograph of an Otto?
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Thanks so much,
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Karima



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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9399 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Otto's
                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                            here's one from otocinclus.com

                                                                                            Karima <karima@insightbb.com> wrote:
                                                                                            Can someone direct me to a photograph of an Otto?
                                                                                             
                                                                                            Thanks so much,
                                                                                             
                                                                                            Karima



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                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                            .
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                                                                                            Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9400 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Otto websight




                                                                                            www.otocinclus.com - Home of the Dwarf Suckermouth Catfishes
                                                                                              intresting sight on Otto's  will find plenty of pics here, and some valuable info on how to keep them alive..

                                                                                            rob
                                                                                            Indiana'
                                                                                            USA



                                                                                            In a message dated 3/22/2005 12:17:05 PM US Eastern Standard Time, karima@... writes:




                                                                                            Can someone direct me to a photograph of an Otto?

                                                                                            Thanks so much,

                                                                                            Karima


                                                                                            www.otocinclus.com - Home of the Dwarf Suckermouth Catfishes
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9401 From: paul helms Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                            as said, unless it says .edu the information is more
                                                                                            than likely very scewed. i could write anything i
                                                                                            want under.com.tv.org, etc but .edu is usually backed
                                                                                            upo by something
                                                                                            --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                            <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                            > I agree with amalthea. DON'T TRUST ANYTHING ON
                                                                                            > THE INTERNET! :) You
                                                                                            > would be surprised at how much bad stuff there is
                                                                                            > out there. Where do you
                                                                                            > think I read that their tails are cut?! So while
                                                                                            > that means don't trust me
                                                                                            > too, any research you do on-line that could show me
                                                                                            > to be wrong could also
                                                                                            > be wrong. Who knows, I might be a French puppy mill
                                                                                            > owner named Jane, or
                                                                                            > the only blood parrot farmer in Thailand that thinks
                                                                                            > the only way to make
                                                                                            > the valentine variety is to cut their tails...
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Patrick
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                            > Well I tend to trust Patrick on a lot of aquatic
                                                                                            > things and whether it comes
                                                                                            > from his email or some website also made by a
                                                                                            > hobbiest neither one could be
                                                                                            > considered an "Official" answer to a question
                                                                                            > regarding bad breeding habits
                                                                                            > and bad genetic lines. So if I did research as you
                                                                                            > commanded without
                                                                                            > reading Patricks comments I could have come up with
                                                                                            > the same answers. But
                                                                                            > thanks for setting me straight there on accepting
                                                                                            > things.
                                                                                            > Mike



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                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9402 From: paul helms Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                            actually if you want my own opinion, i will give it to
                                                                                            you. i do not see anything wrong with cross breeding
                                                                                            fish or other animals as a matter of fact. i actually
                                                                                            am for it, especially in the cases where natural
                                                                                            populations are being dessimated by hobbies. i am
                                                                                            aggainst things such as carpet hugger cats, whose legs
                                                                                            are too damn short to allow it to get out of harms
                                                                                            way. it is one thing to create something, but quite
                                                                                            another to create something that will have a miserable
                                                                                            life. my statements were reflections on previous
                                                                                            discussions on the same topic that the group has had.
                                                                                            quite simply, many people were against genetic
                                                                                            manuipulation of animals to create new hobby species,
                                                                                            and a lot of people did not think that if the two
                                                                                            animals could not produce offspring together by
                                                                                            traditional standards, that they did not belong that
                                                                                            way. as for ai, i don't think it is necessary for the
                                                                                            pet industry, and i would prefer animals breeding
                                                                                            together that are close enough in genetic relations to
                                                                                            do so naturally, but that does not mean that i am
                                                                                            against hobby pets being crossbred. if i like teh
                                                                                            fish i am gonna buy it.
                                                                                            --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:

                                                                                            > (You say that these are other people's opinions, but
                                                                                            > your wording lower
                                                                                            > down shows that you share them.)
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Not to beat a VERY dead horse, but you feel that
                                                                                            > genetically modified fish
                                                                                            > are less natural than two species trying to mate
                                                                                            > that never would have met
                                                                                            > in the wild? Hmmm. What if a scientist, in a lab,
                                                                                            > artificially
                                                                                            > inseminated a donkey with a horse's sperm? Would
                                                                                            > that be less natural
                                                                                            > than if the two animals simply met in a barn? Would
                                                                                            > it cross your line?
                                                                                            > Is a barn a natural environment?
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > For that matter, what about the attempts to bring
                                                                                            > back the Quagga? It is
                                                                                            > extinct, but scientists are trying to clone one from
                                                                                            > the DNA of a
                                                                                            > stuffed quagga. The surrogate mother would be a
                                                                                            > horse.
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Scientists also hope to clone a Wooley Mammoth in
                                                                                            > the next decade
                                                                                            > (elephant surrogate), but they may try to back-breed
                                                                                            > it instead. THAT
                                                                                            > would be a hybrid that could NEVER appear in nature,
                                                                                            > as the Wooley Mammoth
                                                                                            > died out milenia ago.
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > My point is not whether un-natural hybrids are good
                                                                                            > or bad, but rather to
                                                                                            > question why are you making a distinction between
                                                                                            > genetic material passed
                                                                                            > directly between two animals that could never have
                                                                                            > met without human
                                                                                            > intervention, and some scientist somewhere
                                                                                            > performing the transfer.
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > As has been stated elsewhere, in the case of ALL
                                                                                            > dogs, "man has stepped in
                                                                                            > to create a new species". In many cases, "where it
                                                                                            > is not needed".
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Specifically in the case of Glofish, it is not a
                                                                                            > case of "where it is not
                                                                                            > needed". Glofish were developed for a specific need
                                                                                            > and then later sold
                                                                                            > as a curiosity.
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > And more on topic, Blood Parrots are created by
                                                                                            > putting two disparate fish
                                                                                            > together in a tank and they "go about their business
                                                                                            > if living near
                                                                                            > eachother". The fact that they are predominantly
                                                                                            > sterile eliminates any
                                                                                            > arguments about species displacement in the wild.
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > paul helms said:
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > i think that some people who have issues with
                                                                                            > cross
                                                                                            > > bred fish for sale in the market, have issues
                                                                                            > because
                                                                                            > > some of teh cross breeds are lab created, would
                                                                                            > not
                                                                                            > > occure in nature ever. it is not that two
                                                                                            > unrelated
                                                                                            > > fish bred, but rather that man has stepped in to
                                                                                            > > create a new species, where it is not needed. in
                                                                                            > the
                                                                                            > > case of mules, a wild donkey and a wild horse will
                                                                                            > > mate. yes i do realize that the spanish imported
                                                                                            > the
                                                                                            > > horse, and that it would not naturally happen here
                                                                                            > as
                                                                                            > > the horse does not "belong" here, but the fact is
                                                                                            > that
                                                                                            > > they will go about their business if living near
                                                                                            > > eachother. i am not saying that i do or do not
                                                                                            > agree
                                                                                            > > with the breeding of unrelated fish, but just as a
                                                                                            > > point for both sides i thought i would add
                                                                                            > comments.
                                                                                            > > if the fish can be crossbred without genetic
                                                                                            > > manipulation, there is nothing expressly
                                                                                            > impossible
                                                                                            > > about it. improbable yes, impossible no. this
                                                                                            > > discussion has already occured wiuthin the last
                                                                                            > year,
                                                                                            > > but i do realize that there are many new members
                                                                                            > here.
                                                                                            > > --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                            > >> They are sterile, so who cares if they are
                                                                                            > >> cross-breeds. Mules and Ligers
                                                                                            > >> are wonderful animals and are the same basic
                                                                                            > >> concept.
                                                                                            > >>
                                                                                            > >> Yes, Blood Parrots have very social natures.
                                                                                            > There
                                                                                            > >> are other fish that do
                                                                                            > >> too, but you aren't going to want any of them in
                                                                                            > the
                                                                                            > >> same tank.
                                                                                            > >>
                                                                                            > >> Oscars have wonderful personalities, but they
                                                                                            > will
                                                                                            > >> grow very large and
                                                                                            > >> will bully the Parrots and will also eat the
                                                                                            > smaller
                                                                                            > >> fish.
                                                                                            > >>
                                                                                            > >> On the other end of the spectrum, Paradise fish
                                                                                            > show
                                                                                            > >> many of the same
                                                                                            > >> traits, but they are small and will be bullied or
                                                                                            > >> eaten by the parrots.
                                                                                            > >>
                                                                                            > >>
                                                                                            > >>
                                                                                            > >>
                                                                                            > >> Dane & Leslie Moore said:
                                                                                            > >> > Half of the living room is glass doors and they
                                                                                            > >> are near these. That's
                                                                                            > >> > so weird.
                                                                                            > >> > The blood parrots are apparently very well
                                                                                            > known
                                                                                            > >> for the personalities.
                                                                                            > >> > I have grown SO attached to both of them, even
                                                                                            > the
                                                                                            > >> bully. He spits out
                                                                                            > >> > the gravel and completely rearranges everything
                                                                                            > to
                                                                                            > >> his liking. They are
                                                                                            > >> > a hoot. I wouldn't mind getting another once
                                                                                            > we
                                                                                            > >> get the bigger tank
                                                                                            > >> > ready.
                                                                                            > >> > I just wish they weren't cross breeds. I
                                                                                            > really
                                                                                            > >> don't want to support
                                                                                            > >> > messing with nature. Are there any other fish
                                                                                            > >> like these that have
                                                                                            > >> > their own distinct personalities?
                                                                                            > >> >
                                                                                            > >> > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                            > >> >
                                                                                            > >> >
                                                                                            > >> > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                            > >> > From: Ron Hansen
                                                                                            > [mailto:yahoo1@...]
                                                                                            > >> > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 2:35 PM
                                                                                            > >> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                            > >> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown
                                                                                            > >> Spots
                                                                                            > >> >
                                                                                            > >> > One of mine developed a spot like you describe
                                                                                            > >> except it's rectangular
                                                                                            > >> > and
                                                                                            > >> > black. Also, two of my Silver Dollars just
                                                                                            > >> developed a black fringe on
                                                                                            > >> > their tails.
                                                                                            > >> >
                                                                                            > >> > I don't think you have anything to worry about.
                                                                                            > I
                                                                                            > >> think it's a mating
                                                                                            > >> > or
                                                                                            > >> > dominance pigmentation. The two Silver Dollars
                                                                                            > >> started chasing everyone
                                                                                            > >> > off, so they may be preparing to mate.
                                                                                            > >> >
                                                                                            > >> > Have you changed one of these in the past few
                                                                                            > >> days:
                                                                                            > >> > temperature
                                                                                            > >> > PH
                                                                                            > >> > light period (amount of time lights are on)
                                                                                            > >> > today is the vernal equinox - can the fish see
                                                                                            > the
                                                                                            > >> windows?
                                                                                            > >> >
                                                                                            > >> > Any of these can trigger mating behavior.
                                                                                            > >> >
                                                                                            > >> >
                                                                                            > >> >
                                                                                            > >> >
                                                                                            > >> > Dane & Leslie Moore said:
                                                                                            > >> >> This fish has yet another spot on him as of
                                                                                            > about
                                                                                            > >> 2 hours ago. His
                                                                                            > >> > fins
                                                                                            > >> >> have some brown on the edges and now there is
                                                                                            > a
                                                                                            > >> spot on each side of
                                                                                            > >> >> him, dark brown in color. He is normally very
                                                                                            > >> orange so I don't think
                                                                                            > >> >> it's color changing. I could really use some
                                                                                            > >> help with this. Even if
                                                                                            > >> >> no one knows what it is, maybe a good online
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            === message truncated ===




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                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9403 From: paul helms Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: $1 otos (was "Re: confused")
                                                                                            aaron,
                                                                                            i can probably get the ottos pretty cheap for you
                                                                                            through work. i can purchas efor my self and friends
                                                                                            for cost. how many are you looking for?
                                                                                            paul
                                                                                            --- Aaron <massagetherapist@...> wrote:
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Hi,
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > I'm in Livermore and in need of a couple dozen or so
                                                                                            > otos myself if
                                                                                            > you are ever heading back out there. In case not, do
                                                                                            > you know the
                                                                                            > stores name? I'd consider going out there myself as
                                                                                            > most the store
                                                                                            > here are a bit expensive.
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Aaron
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > --- In AquaticLife....
                                                                                            > > I found a place in the Central valley, Modesto,
                                                                                            > that sells them a
                                                                                            > buck a
                                                                                            > > piece. Probably no where close to you, it's not
                                                                                            > very close to me
                                                                                            > either, but I
                                                                                            > > picked up some when I was out there one day and
                                                                                            > they are the best
                                                                                            > batch I
                                                                                            > > have gotten yet. None died : )
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > Mike
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >



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                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9404 From: paul helms Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: To Aaron, Marius and all./To Paul
                                                                                            of course, and i am using mine =)
                                                                                            --- harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:
                                                                                            > Just using my American free speech to voice my
                                                                                            > opinion. Okay with you?
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Harry
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                            > harry, in case you have not noticed, mostof us are
                                                                                            > americans, and as such we freely use our freedom of
                                                                                            > speech. if we do not see something as sincere, we
                                                                                            > have the right to respond, whether you agree with it
                                                                                            > or not. as long as no one is using foul language,
                                                                                            > racism, or blatantly outrageous attacking stances,
                                                                                            > why
                                                                                            > should you intervene?
                                                                                            > --- harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:
                                                                                            > > There seems to be some concern about Aaron's
                                                                                            > > decision to support Marius in this group. Whether
                                                                                            > > the claims are true or not what difference does it
                                                                                            > > make? Has it cost anyone anything?
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > Did I miss something? or did I read that this
                                                                                            > > person's goal was to help his fellow man/woman.
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > A question. How does self-serving, ego centered
                                                                                            > > posts benifit anyone? I am a proud moderator of
                                                                                            > this
                                                                                            > > group and I don't remember Aaron appointing anyone
                                                                                            > > as judge or jury.
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > How do we know that this is not a case of one man
                                                                                            > > trying to make a difference? E-mails are easy
                                                                                            > Taking
                                                                                            > > action and doing something is another story.
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > Harry.
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                            > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                            > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources
                                                                                            > site!
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
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                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9405 From: paul helms Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: confused
                                                                                            i'm in livermore with aaron. i checked again and they
                                                                                            are usually about 3.99 in stores. maybe i will chceck
                                                                                            out modesto some time
                                                                                            --- Deenerz@... wrote:
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > In a message dated 3/21/2005 10:11:41 PM Pacific
                                                                                            > Standard Time,
                                                                                            > wtfmorlok@... writes:
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > i guess price is relative to location, as ottos run
                                                                                            > about 5-6 dollars each in california, where a
                                                                                            > medium
                                                                                            > pleco runs about 8 bucks
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Where do you live?
                                                                                            > I found a place in the Central valley, Modesto, that
                                                                                            > sells them a buck a
                                                                                            > piece. Probably no where close to you, it's not
                                                                                            > very close to me either, but I
                                                                                            > picked up some when I was out there one day and they
                                                                                            > are the best batch I
                                                                                            > have gotten yet. None died : )
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Mike
                                                                                            >



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                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9406 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Wanting the picture of something...
                                                                                            For those who already know how to use Google to get pictures of something, please ignore this email and carry on. But for those who don't, it's an incredible resource for finding what something looks like. I've used it thousands of times when researching roses, and used it a dozen times, since I joined this list, when we were talking about a species of fish, so I could put a name with a face so to speak.

                                                                                            When you go to http://www.google.com you will note that there is a link called "Images". If you click there and type in a word for the item which you want to see, it will pull up images of that item. It's not 100% effective, but I would say about 95-99% of the time it comes up with the item I'm wanting to see.

                                                                                            You may come up with items that your wondering, what does that have to do with fish at all. I've seen that happen. Generally it's tied to the name of the image that was pulled up. Try it, it works. For example do a search on: Elephant Nose Fish. You'll come up with:
                                                                                            http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=Elephant+Nose+Fish&btnG=Search

                                                                                            Oh, and if you put quotes around the item "Elephant Nose Fish", it will narrow down your search to a very specific item:
                                                                                            http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Elephant+Nose+Fish%22

                                                                                            Or you could do "Elephant Nose" fish
                                                                                            "Elephant Nose" Fish
                                                                                            http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Elephant+Nose%22+Fish

                                                                                            Anytime you can narrow down your search, your benefited, it will generally reduce the number of images to more what you are looking for.

                                                                                            Sorry for taking the time of all you internet search engine Pro's :)

                                                                                            --
                                                                                            Chat with you later,
                                                                                            Alan
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                                                                                            ***** Never judge a man by his taglines.


                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                            From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
                                                                                            Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 11:00 AM
                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots



                                                                                            as said, unless it says .edu the information is more
                                                                                            than likely very scewed. i could write anything i
                                                                                            want under.com.tv.org, etc but .edu is usually backed
                                                                                            upo by something
                                                                                            --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                            <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                            > I agree with amalthea. DON'T TRUST ANYTHING ON
                                                                                            > THE INTERNET! :) You
                                                                                            > would be surprised at how much bad stuff there is
                                                                                            > out there. Where do you
                                                                                            > think I read that their tails are cut?! So while
                                                                                            > that means don't trust me
                                                                                            > too, any research you do on-line that could show me
                                                                                            > to be wrong could also
                                                                                            > be wrong. Who knows, I might be a French puppy mill
                                                                                            > owner named Jane, or
                                                                                            > the only blood parrot farmer in Thailand that thinks
                                                                                            > the only way to make
                                                                                            > the valentine variety is to cut their tails...
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Patrick
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                            > Well I tend to trust Patrick on a lot of aquatic
                                                                                            > things and whether it comes
                                                                                            > from his email or some website also made by a
                                                                                            > hobbiest neither one could be
                                                                                            > considered an "Official" answer to a question
                                                                                            > regarding bad breeding habits
                                                                                            > and bad genetic lines. So if I did research as you
                                                                                            > commanded without
                                                                                            > reading Patricks comments I could have come up with
                                                                                            > the same answers. But
                                                                                            > thanks for setting me straight there on accepting
                                                                                            > things.
                                                                                            > Mike



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                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                            .
                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9407 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Using Peat in a Filter - Question
                                                                                            It has probably been a month since I last calibrated it.  I need to get some fresh solution.
                                                                                            I do not remember reading how often the sensors need to be replaced; my owner's
                                                                                            pamphlet is buried here somewhere in my office.  Oh, how I wish I had been born
                                                                                            organized!  But getting back to the sensors, I need to clean them, I'm sure.  Thanks
                                                                                            for the reminder!  :-)

                                                                                            You are forgiven for goofing off and not treating me like my problems are the most
                                                                                            important ones on the planet.  ;-)

                                                                                            Cheers,

                                                                                            Princess Leia, aka Laura Garcia

                                                                                            Steve wrote:
                                                                                            I probably do have some links somewhere, but most of my stuff is in books,
                                                                                            notes, personal correspondence, etc. You know, the old fashioned stuff.
                                                                                            Sorry I didn't see your post earlier today, as I goofed off most of the day,
                                                                                            having taken the day off from work. I go back tomorrow, so it may take me a
                                                                                            few days to get caught up enough to pull the stuff together (I have the kind
                                                                                            of job where stuff piles up rather than being taken care of by others).

                                                                                            When was the last time you calibrated your pH meter? They need to be
                                                                                            calibrated regularly, and the sensors cleaned or replaced on a regular
                                                                                            basis. Otherwise you will not get proper and consistent readings. They are
                                                                                            handy, though.

                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                            From: Laura F. Garcia [mailto:lfigarcia@...]
                                                                                            Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 1:58 PM
                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Using Peat in a Filter - Question



                                                                                            Steve,

                                                                                            Thank you for your reply.  I really appreciate the information.  If it
                                                                                            is not TOO much trouble for you
                                                                                            to send me more information or links to further info, I would be most
                                                                                            grateful.

                                                                                            Your preference for keeping fish that do well in the water you have is
                                                                                            undoubtedly a wise idea.  I have
                                                                                            a "thing" for Cardinals, however.  I believe the ones I plan to get are
                                                                                            farm raised, rather than wild,
                                                                                            so hopefully they will be a bit more tolerant of local water chemistry
                                                                                            (well water, hard, somewhat high
                                                                                            pH).  Eventually I was hoping to get some wild ones, though.  We'll see
                                                                                            how it goes.

                                                                                            I have learned not to mess with so-called "proper pH"-type additives; I
                                                                                            have killed fish using one to
                                                                                            lower my water's pH, even though I followed the directions.

                                                                                            Thanks again for your help.  I at least now know why the pH went back
                                                                                            up!  I will monitor it
                                                                                            closely over the next week or two.  It will be a couple of weeks before
                                                                                            I get the tetras.  (Maybe
                                                                                            I should've gone with Congos.)  BTW,  I have a Pinpoint pH monitor.  I
                                                                                            rely on it more than
                                                                                            on my test kit, which I find difficult to interpret.

                                                                                            Cheers,

                                                                                            Laura Garcia

                                                                                            Steve wrote:

                                                                                            > Laura,
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Changing water chemistry is not as easy as it is always made out to
                                                                                            > be. When
                                                                                            > it comes to pH, it can be very tricky indeed. In a simplistic take, all
                                                                                            > water has a natural buffing capacity. This helps maintain the pH of the
                                                                                            > water. When you try to decrease the pH, you need to overcome this buffer.
                                                                                            > This can be done successfully, but it can also lead to disastrous results.
                                                                                            > If the buffer is broken, your pH can plummet, probably to a level far
                                                                                            > lower
                                                                                            > than you wish for your fish.
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Using peat is a good method for trying to lower pH. It also adds
                                                                                            > tannins to
                                                                                            > the water which can help with certain species of fish. However, when
                                                                                            > you are
                                                                                            > using peat, do not expect to see immediate results. It can take days
                                                                                            > for the
                                                                                            > water to drop in pH as your test had initially indicated after you had
                                                                                            > added
                                                                                            > the peat. Depending on your brand of test kit, and other water additives,
                                                                                            > and your measuring methods, readings given may be variable.
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Peat is often used to soften hard water, and the lowering of the pH is
                                                                                            > just
                                                                                            > a bonus. While it is not often seen, hard water can have a low pH and soft
                                                                                            > water can have a high pH. Water hardness does not move hand in hand
                                                                                            > with pH.
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > This all is just off the top of my head. if you wish a fuller
                                                                                            > explanation, I
                                                                                            > can probably pull together my references to give you something in more
                                                                                            > detail as to how this all works. I am pretty much a believer in
                                                                                            > keeping fish
                                                                                            > that will do well in the water you have rather than having to create water
                                                                                            > conditions the fish will like.
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > \\Steve//





                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                            .
                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                            the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                            subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You
                                                                                            in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links











                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                            .
                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                            --
                                                                                            Signature Laura Garcia
                                                                                            --
                                                                                            John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should
                                                                                            not perish but have everlasting life."

                                                                                            Acts 2:38  "...Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Christ Jesus for the remission of sins;
                                                                                            and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9408 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Using Peat in a Filter - Question
                                                                                            It has probably been a month since I last calibrated it.  I need to get some fresh solution.
                                                                                            I do not remember reading how often the sensors need to be replaced; my owner's
                                                                                            pamphlet is buried here somewhere in my office.  Oh, how I wish I had been born
                                                                                            organized!  But getting back to the sensors, I need to clean them, I'm sure.  Thanks
                                                                                            for the reminder!  :-)

                                                                                            You are forgiven for goofing off and not treating me like my problems are the most
                                                                                            important ones on the planet.  ;-)

                                                                                            Cheers,

                                                                                            Laura Garcia

                                                                                            Steve wrote:
                                                                                            I probably do have some links somewhere, but most of my stuff is in books,
                                                                                            notes, personal correspondence, etc. You know, the old fashioned stuff.
                                                                                            Sorry I didn't see your post earlier today, as I goofed off most of the day,
                                                                                            having taken the day off from work. I go back tomorrow, so it may take me a
                                                                                            few days to get caught up enough to pull the stuff together (I have the kind
                                                                                            of job where stuff piles up rather than being taken care of by others).

                                                                                            When was the last time you calibrated your pH meter? They need to be
                                                                                            calibrated regularly, and the sensors cleaned or replaced on a regular
                                                                                            basis. Otherwise you will not get proper and consistent readings. They are
                                                                                            handy, though.

                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                            From: Laura F. Garcia [mailto:lfigarcia@...]
                                                                                            Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 1:58 PM
                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Using Peat in a Filter - Question



                                                                                            Steve,

                                                                                            Thank you for your reply.  I really appreciate the information.  If it
                                                                                            is not TOO much trouble for you
                                                                                            to send me more information or links to further info, I would be most
                                                                                            grateful.

                                                                                            Your preference for keeping fish that do well in the water you have is
                                                                                            undoubtedly a wise idea.  I have
                                                                                            a "thing" for Cardinals, however.  I believe the ones I plan to get are
                                                                                            farm raised, rather than wild,
                                                                                            so hopefully they will be a bit more tolerant of local water chemistry
                                                                                            (well water, hard, somewhat high
                                                                                            pH).  Eventually I was hoping to get some wild ones, though.  We'll see
                                                                                            how it goes.

                                                                                            I have learned not to mess with so-called "proper pH"-type additives; I
                                                                                            have killed fish using one to
                                                                                            lower my water's pH, even though I followed the directions.

                                                                                            Thanks again for your help.  I at least now know why the pH went back
                                                                                            up!  I will monitor it
                                                                                            closely over the next week or two.  It will be a couple of weeks before
                                                                                            I get the tetras.  (Maybe
                                                                                            I should've gone with Congos.)  BTW,  I have a Pinpoint pH monitor.  I
                                                                                            rely on it more than
                                                                                            on my test kit, which I find difficult to interpret.

                                                                                            Cheers,

                                                                                            Laura Garcia

                                                                                            Steve wrote:

                                                                                            > Laura,
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Changing water chemistry is not as easy as it is always made out to
                                                                                            > be. When
                                                                                            > it comes to pH, it can be very tricky indeed. In a simplistic take, all
                                                                                            > water has a natural buffing capacity. This helps maintain the pH of the
                                                                                            > water. When you try to decrease the pH, you need to overcome this buffer.
                                                                                            > This can be done successfully, but it can also lead to disastrous results.
                                                                                            > If the buffer is broken, your pH can plummet, probably to a level far
                                                                                            > lower
                                                                                            > than you wish for your fish.
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Using peat is a good method for trying to lower pH. It also adds
                                                                                            > tannins to
                                                                                            > the water which can help with certain species of fish. However, when
                                                                                            > you are
                                                                                            > using peat, do not expect to see immediate results. It can take days
                                                                                            > for the
                                                                                            > water to drop in pH as your test had initially indicated after you had
                                                                                            > added
                                                                                            > the peat. Depending on your brand of test kit, and other water additives,
                                                                                            > and your measuring methods, readings given may be variable.
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Peat is often used to soften hard water, and the lowering of the pH is
                                                                                            > just
                                                                                            > a bonus. While it is not often seen, hard water can have a low pH and soft
                                                                                            > water can have a high pH. Water hardness does not move hand in hand
                                                                                            > with pH.
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > This all is just off the top of my head. if you wish a fuller
                                                                                            > explanation, I
                                                                                            > can probably pull together my references to give you something in more
                                                                                            > detail as to how this all works. I am pretty much a believer in
                                                                                            > keeping fish
                                                                                            > that will do well in the water you have rather than having to create water
                                                                                            > conditions the fish will like.
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > \\Steve//





                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                            .
                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                            the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                            subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You
                                                                                            in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links











                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                            --
                                                                                            Signature Laura Garcia
                                                                                            --
                                                                                            John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should
                                                                                            not perish but have everlasting life."

                                                                                            Acts 2:38  "...Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Christ Jesus for the remission of sins;
                                                                                            and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9409 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                                You would be surprised at how many .edu sites I've seen run by people who don't know what they are talking about, or do and are just making stuff up.  It seems some colleges allow students to have their own sites, and then there are professors with odd ideas or agendas (and I'm not talking political!).  I would say unless it is a primary document (copies of speeches, letters, government papers, etc.) you should always be suspicious of anything on the internet.
                                                                                                As for the cut fins on BPs, I did find at least one mention of it on a forum with no source to back it up, and I was told by someone else that this is true.  Of course, both were on-line, so unless I find proof I will go along with the majority and say they are a genetic trait.
                                                                                             
                                                                                            Patrick
                                                                                             
                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                            as said, unless it says .edu the information is more
                                                                                            than likely very scewed.  i could write anything i
                                                                                            want under.com.tv.org, etc but .edu is usually backed
                                                                                            upo by something
                                                                                            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9410 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: confused
                                                                                            wow, i'm surprised that livermore is more expensive than the peninsula. if you guys ever venture
                                                                                            west to the peninsula, check out a lfs called fish for you on los prados in san mateo. that's
                                                                                            where i got my ottos for $2.95/ea. i can't remember how much my plec was @ the same store, but i
                                                                                            know it wasn't $8.

                                                                                            --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                            > i'm in livermore with aaron. i checked again and they
                                                                                            > are usually about 3.99 in stores. maybe i will chceck
                                                                                            > out modesto some time
                                                                                            > --- Deenerz@... wrote:
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > In a message dated 3/21/2005 10:11:41 PM Pacific
                                                                                            > > Standard Time,
                                                                                            > > wtfmorlok@... writes:
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > i guess price is relative to location, as ottos run
                                                                                            > > about 5-6 dollars each in california, where a
                                                                                            > > medium
                                                                                            > > pleco runs about 8 bucks
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > Where do you live?
                                                                                            > > I found a place in the Central valley, Modesto, that
                                                                                            > > sells them a buck a
                                                                                            > > piece. Probably no where close to you, it's not
                                                                                            > > very close to me either, but I
                                                                                            > > picked up some when I was out there one day and they
                                                                                            > > are the best batch I
                                                                                            > > have gotten yet. None died : )
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > Mike
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > __________________________________
                                                                                            > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                            > Make Yahoo! your home page
                                                                                            > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                                                                            >


                                                                                            Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9411 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: new to group/question about betas
                                                                                            ooooh, i bet your betta is in heaven in such a large tank! =)

                                                                                            --- Amalthea <amalthea23@...> wrote:

                                                                                            > well, i tend to keep mine in my 55 gallon tank along with all my other
                                                                                            > fish, so the temp is from 76-78 depending on the season (it tends to be
                                                                                            > warmer in the winter in the tank from ambient heat in the room) when
                                                                                            > kept at 74-76, the aggression generally decreases, though i have had
                                                                                            > success keeping males and females together at higher temps. my tank is
                                                                                            > planted though, which offers a lot of territories and hiding places and
                                                                                            > that can greatly affect the outcome of a match as well.
                                                                                            > amalthea
                                                                                            > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                            > Don't be Afraid to Scream....


                                                                                            Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9412 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                                 Another issue to consider in this is that nobody really knows how BPs are made.  The common belief is that they are hybrids of severums and red devils, but that is just the guessing people have done for lack of knowledge.  I think I read in AFM that the true history of these fish is hidden by the breeders that make them.  So the breeders apparently don't let their secrets out so others can't start making their own BP's.  Having only a few people with the knowledge to make them would explain why they are so expensive.  Anybody know of an American breeder that makes them?  I've heard that FL fish farmers won't make fish like this, but I do know they will import them.
                                                                                                Have you seen the "unicorn" parrot?  These are supposed to have been made by clipping the dorsal fin in just the right spot so it looks like a horn-shaped fin above the head.  After seeing pictures of these fish on as fish importer's website, I beleive that is most likely how they are made.  Cutting off the back fin wouldn't be much worse, so don't think they wouldn't do it.  The question is, do they do it?  Nobody really knows.
                                                                                             
                                                                                            Patrick
                                                                                             
                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                I'm not making it up.  It might be made up, but this is one of the things I have read about these fish on the anti-bp sites.  This may be a wild rumor, but it has been around for a while.
                                                                                            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9413 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: introduction
                                                                                            Because the Malta society has almost the exact same introductory
                                                                                            information on the homepage as this group

                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                            <nigelchetcuti@y...> wrote:
                                                                                            > Why is it hilarious what's wrong with having a an
                                                                                            > aquarist society?
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Nigel
                                                                                            > --- jazz <jazz001@d...> wrote:
                                                                                            > ---------------------------------
                                                                                            > why is it -Ha Ha LOL, That's hilarious!?
                                                                                            > ---- Original Message -----
                                                                                            > From: "Aaron" <massagetherapist@m...>
                                                                                            > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                            > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 11:53 AM
                                                                                            > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: introduction
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > Ha Ha LOL, That's hilarious!
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R.
                                                                                            > Martin, cmt"
                                                                                            > > <anonymous122899@y...> wrote:
                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                            > > > Nice group, Impressive Description on the Groups
                                                                                            > Home Page,
                                                                                            > > however
                                                                                            > > > it does seem to be suspiciously familiar?!
                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                            > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jazz"
                                                                                            > <jazz001@d...> wrote:
                                                                                            > > > > I would like to introduce to this group The
                                                                                            > Malta Aquarist
                                                                                            > > > Society.founded in 1970.
                                                                                            > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/buzaqq/
                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                            > > > > the fish on the logo is the "Buzaqq" Maltese
                                                                                            > for Aphanius
                                                                                            > > > Fasciatus the only fresh /brackish water fish
                                                                                            > found on our island
                                                                                            > > > Malta.
                                                                                            > > > > THANKS
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                            > replying, thanks
                                                                                            > > .
                                                                                            > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                            > that is not important to
                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                            > message modify the
                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                            > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                            > replying, thanks
                                                                                            > .
                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that
                                                                                            > is not important to the reply and if changing the
                                                                                            > topic of the original message modify the subject line
                                                                                            > -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                            > Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
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                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9414 From: Aaron Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Wanting the picture of something...
                                                                                            Thanks for the info. I found it to be very helpful as I had never
                                                                                            tried it before Patrick mentioned it recently and now it is my
                                                                                            favorite resource.

                                                                                            I added a bookmark to it at the top of the groups links section;

                                                                                            Google.com
                                                                                            Search for IMAGES of any AquaticLife

                                                                                            Google.com ~ Search for IMAGES of AquaticLife
                                                                                            any time you need a picture, go to google.com and click on the
                                                                                            images link, and do a search. It will come up with a page of images
                                                                                            of whatever you are looking for.
                                                                                            (thanks to Patrick and Alan for the tip)
                                                                                            http://www.google.com/


                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Zelhart Alan-rpcs30
                                                                                            <alan.zelhart@f...> wrote:
                                                                                            > For those who already know how to use Google to get pictures of
                                                                                            something, please ignore this email and carry on. But for those who
                                                                                            don't, it's an incredible resource for finding what something looks
                                                                                            like. I've used it thousands of times when researching roses, and
                                                                                            used it a dozen times, since I joined this list, when we were
                                                                                            talking about a species of fish, so I could put a name with a face
                                                                                            so to speak.
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > When you go to http://www.google.com you will note that there is a
                                                                                            link called "Images". If you click there and type in a word for the
                                                                                            item which you want to see, it will pull up images of that item.
                                                                                            It's not 100% effective, but I would say about 95-99% of the time it
                                                                                            comes up with the item I'm wanting to see.
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > You may come up with items that your wondering, what does that
                                                                                            have to do with fish at all. I've seen that happen. Generally it's
                                                                                            tied to the name of the image that was pulled up. Try it, it
                                                                                            works. For example do a search on: Elephant Nose Fish. You'll come
                                                                                            up with:
                                                                                            > http://images.google.com/images?
                                                                                            hl=en&lr=&q=Elephant+Nose+Fish&btnG=Search
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Oh, and if you put quotes around the item "Elephant Nose Fish", it
                                                                                            will narrow down your search to a very specific item:
                                                                                            > http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Elephant+Nose+Fish%
                                                                                            22
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Or you could do "Elephant Nose" fish
                                                                                            > "Elephant Nose" Fish
                                                                                            > http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Elephant+Nose%
                                                                                            22+Fish
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Anytime you can narrow down your search, your benefited, it will
                                                                                            generally reduce the number of images to more what you are looking
                                                                                            for.
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Sorry for taking the time of all you internet search engine
                                                                                            Pro's :)
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > --
                                                                                            > Chat with you later,
                                                                                            > Alan
                                                                                            .....
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9415 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Using Peat in a Filter - Question
                                                                                            Hi
                                                                                            By any chance everyone have you ever taken the idea of
                                                                                            instead of putting peat fibers in the filter why dont
                                                                                            you actually leave them floating and running around in
                                                                                            the tank! Gourami's love it and use it alot for
                                                                                            nesting as well all the bettas. It's your tanks more
                                                                                            close to the natural side and is as beneficial as in
                                                                                            the filter!

                                                                                            Nigel

                                                                                            --- "Laura F. Garcia" <lfigarcia@...>
                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                            > It has probably been a month since I last calibrated
                                                                                            > it. I need to get
                                                                                            > some fresh solution.
                                                                                            > I do not remember reading how often the sensors need
                                                                                            > to be replaced; my
                                                                                            > owner's
                                                                                            > pamphlet is buried here somewhere in my office. Oh,
                                                                                            > how I wish I had
                                                                                            > been born
                                                                                            > organized! But getting back to the sensors, I need
                                                                                            > to clean them, I'm
                                                                                            > sure. Thanks
                                                                                            > for the reminder! :-)
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > You are forgiven for goofing off and not treating me
                                                                                            > like my problems
                                                                                            > are the most
                                                                                            > important ones on the planet. ;-)
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Cheers,
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Princess Leia, aka Laura Garcia
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Steve wrote:
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > > I probably do have some links somewhere, but most
                                                                                            > of my stuff is in books,
                                                                                            > > notes, personal correspondence, etc. You know, the
                                                                                            > old fashioned stuff.
                                                                                            > > Sorry I didn't see your post earlier today, as I
                                                                                            > goofed off most of
                                                                                            > > the day,
                                                                                            > > having taken the day off from work. I go back
                                                                                            > tomorrow, so it may take
                                                                                            > > me a
                                                                                            > > few days to get caught up enough to pull the stuff
                                                                                            > together (I have
                                                                                            > > the kind
                                                                                            > > of job where stuff piles up rather than being
                                                                                            > taken care of by others).
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > When was the last time you calibrated your pH
                                                                                            > meter? They need to be
                                                                                            > > calibrated regularly, and the sensors cleaned or
                                                                                            > replaced on a regular
                                                                                            > > basis. Otherwise you will not get proper and
                                                                                            > consistent readings. They are
                                                                                            > > handy, though.
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > \\Steve//
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                            > > From: Laura F. Garcia
                                                                                            > [mailto:lfigarcia@...]
                                                                                            > > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 1:58 PM
                                                                                            > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                            > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Using Peat in a Filter
                                                                                            > - Question
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > Steve,
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate the
                                                                                            > information. If it
                                                                                            > > is not TOO much trouble for you
                                                                                            > > to send me more information or links to further
                                                                                            > info, I would be most
                                                                                            > > grateful.
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > Your preference for keeping fish that do well in
                                                                                            > the water you have is
                                                                                            > > undoubtedly a wise idea. I have
                                                                                            > > a "thing" for Cardinals, however. I believe the
                                                                                            > ones I plan to get are
                                                                                            > > farm raised, rather than wild,
                                                                                            > > so hopefully they will be a bit more tolerant of
                                                                                            > local water chemistry
                                                                                            > > (well water, hard, somewhat high
                                                                                            > > pH). Eventually I was hoping to get some wild
                                                                                            > ones, though. We'll see
                                                                                            > > how it goes.
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > I have learned not to mess with so-called "proper
                                                                                            > pH"-type additives; I
                                                                                            > > have killed fish using one to
                                                                                            > > lower my water's pH, even though I followed the
                                                                                            > directions.
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > Thanks again for your help. I at least now know
                                                                                            > why the pH went back
                                                                                            > > up! I will monitor it
                                                                                            > > closely over the next week or two. It will be a
                                                                                            > couple of weeks before
                                                                                            > > I get the tetras. (Maybe
                                                                                            > > I should've gone with Congos.) BTW, I have a
                                                                                            > Pinpoint pH monitor. I
                                                                                            > > rely on it more than
                                                                                            > > on my test kit, which I find difficult to
                                                                                            > interpret.
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > Cheers,
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > Laura Garcia
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > Steve wrote:
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > > Laura,
                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                            > > > Changing water chemistry is not as easy as it is
                                                                                            > always made out to
                                                                                            > > > be. When
                                                                                            > > > it comes to pH, it can be very tricky indeed. In
                                                                                            > a simplistic take, all
                                                                                            > > > water has a natural buffing capacity. This helps
                                                                                            > maintain the pH of the
                                                                                            > > > water. When you try to decrease the pH, you need
                                                                                            > to overcome this
                                                                                            > > buffer.
                                                                                            > > > This can be done successfully, but it can also
                                                                                            > lead to disastrous
                                                                                            > > results.
                                                                                            > > > If the buffer is broken, your pH can plummet,
                                                                                            > probably to a level far
                                                                                            > > > lower
                                                                                            > > > than you wish for your fish.
                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                            > > > Using peat is a good method for trying to lower
                                                                                            > pH. It also adds
                                                                                            > > > tannins to
                                                                                            > > > the water which can help with certain species of
                                                                                            > fish. However, when
                                                                                            > > > you are
                                                                                            > > > using peat, do not expect to see immediate
                                                                                            > results. It can take days
                                                                                            > > > for the
                                                                                            > > > water to drop in pH as your test had initially
                                                                                            > indicated after you had
                                                                                            > > > added
                                                                                            > > > the peat. Depending on your brand of test kit,
                                                                                            > and other water
                                                                                            > > additives,
                                                                                            > > > and your measuring methods, readings given may
                                                                                            > be variable.
                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                            > > > Peat is often used to soften hard water, and the
                                                                                            > lowering of the pH is
                                                                                            > > > just
                                                                                            > > > a bonus. While it is not often seen, hard water
                                                                                            > can have a low pH
                                                                                            > > and soft
                                                                                            > > > water can have a high pH. Water hardness does
                                                                                            > not move hand in hand
                                                                                            > > > with pH.
                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                            > > > This all is just off the top of my head. if you
                                                                                            > wish a fuller
                                                                                            > > > explanation, I
                                                                                            > > > can probably pull together my references to give
                                                                                            > you something in more
                                                                                            > > > detail as to how this all works. I am pretty
                                                                                            > much a believer in
                                                                                            > > > keeping fish
                                                                                            > > > that will do well in the water you have rather
                                                                                            > than having to create
                                                                                            > > water
                                                                                            > > > conditions the fish will like.
                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                            > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                            > when replying, thanks
                                                                                            > > .
                                                                                            > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                            > that is not important to
                                                                                            > > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                            > original message modify the
                                                                                            > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                            > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                            > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > >
                                                                                            > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                            > when replying, thanks
                                                                                            > > .
                                                                                            > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                            > that is not
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            === message truncated ===

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                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9416 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Help! ASAP
                                                                                            I accidently put salt w/iodine in the tank earlier today and never knew about the harm it will do  to the fish - can I change the water and hope that nothing happens to them.
                                                                                            Stacey


                                                                                            Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                            Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9417 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: confused/Stacy
                                                                                            Glad to see that you found a group that you can be comfortable with. I am so happy for you girl. I am also happy to see that you are getting the information that you need for your tank.Good luck in finding a algie eatwer that you really can be happy with.Sorry about the mispelling. My computer won't let me delete the w in eater. Don't know what is wrong with this thing.
                                                                                                           lorie
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                             
                                                                                             
                                                                                             
                                                                                             
                                                                                             
                                                                                             
                                                                                             
                                                                                             
                                                                                             
                                                                                            wit

                                                                                            Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:


                                                                                            Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                            Make Yahoo! your home page

                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9418 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
                                                                                            salt isn't bad not sure about the iodine I hope someone is able to clear that up for you... you can put no more than 1 tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons in a freshwater tank and the fish and such be ok... Shannon
                                                                                            I accidently put salt w/iodine in the tank earlier today and never knew about the harm it will do  to the fish - can I change the water and hope that nothing happens to them.
                                                                                            Stacey
                                                                                             
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9419 From: mnminiman88 Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: I need info with oscars
                                                                                            Ok... just a few questions that need answering if possible...


                                                                                            1. How can i tell gender of oscar?
                                                                                            2. Will oscars of different types breed? ( such as albino and red
                                                                                            oscar? )
                                                                                            3. Do they lay eggs or are they like live bearers?
                                                                                            4. About how big do they have to be to mate?


                                                                                            Thank you...
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9420 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
                                                                                            I hope soooo! I put 2 tablespoons in for my 10 gallon tank. I just put it in late this morning and just was told by my sister-in-law about the Iodine in the salt. I am so worried and need help!
                                                                                            Stacey

                                                                                            agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                            salt isn't bad not sure about the iodine I hope someone is able to clear that up for you... you can put no more than 1 tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons in a freshwater tank and the fish and such be ok... Shannon
                                                                                            I accidently put salt w/iodine in the tank earlier today and never knew about the harm it will do  to the fish - can I change the water and hope that nothing happens to them.
                                                                                            Stacey
                                                                                             


                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9421 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Help! Missing Fiddler Crab!
                                                                                            Anyone have any ideas where I can look for my missing Fiddler
                                                                                            Crab? My tank lid doesn't have any holes in it so he can't have
                                                                                            escaped out of the tank. I've looked all over the tank and cannot
                                                                                            seem to find the little devil! I need to take him out so he can get
                                                                                            air. Of course the PetClub where I got him didn't tell me that
                                                                                            Fiddlers are not completely aquatic and in fact live on marshes
                                                                                            rather than in the ocean. So I went home last night with a little
                                                                                            bowl to put him in for awhile but now I cannot find him. I'm afraid
                                                                                            he's dead somewhere =(
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9422 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
                                                                                            what kind of salt did you put in... was it kosher or table salt.. that is bad pickling salt is good... Shannon
                                                                                            hope soooo! I put 2 tablespoons in for my 10 gallon tank. I just put it in late this morning and just was told by my sister-in-law about the Iodine in the salt. I am so worried and need help!
                                                                                            Stacey
                                                                                             
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9423 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
                                                                                            It was the table salt.
                                                                                            stacey 

                                                                                            agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                            what kind of salt did you put in... was it kosher or table salt.. that is bad pickling salt is good... Shannon
                                                                                            hope soooo! I put 2 tablespoons in for my 10 gallon tank. I just put it in late this morning and just was told by my sister-in-law about the Iodine in the salt. I am so worried and need help!
                                                                                            Stacey
                                                                                             


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                                                                                            .
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                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9424 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: confused
                                                                                            the rubber lipped pleco's that I had did.. not sure if they are going to grow more... but it has been a year and no growth... Shannon:

                                                                                            Plecos stay to 3 inches???
                                                                                             
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9425 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
                                                                                            ok I know that isn't good lots of ppl on this list before told me that.. so I would do a 50% water change like now.. and then see how they are acting.. Shannon
                                                                                            It was the table salt.
                                                                                            stacey 
                                                                                             
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9426 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Otto websight
                                                                                            rob you rock... lol IM BACK LOL thesis rough draft done.. I have allowed myself to come out of my dark hole... Shannon
                                                                                             

                                                                                            www.otocinclus.com - Home of the Dwarf Suckermouth Catfishes
                                                                                              intresting sight on Otto's  will find plenty of pics here, and some valuable info on how to keep them alive..

                                                                                            rob
                                                                                            Indiana'
                                                                                            USA
                                                                                             
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9427 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Wanting the picture of something...
                                                                                            Thanks alan your right I use it all the time myself... very helpful much easier than I think ppl think.. Shannon

                                                                                            For those who already know how to use Google to get pictures of something, please ignore this email and carry on.  But for those who don't, it's an incredible resource for finding what something looks like.  I've used it thousands of times when researching roses, and used it a dozen times, since I joined this list, when we were talking about a species of fish, so I could put a name with a face so to speak.

                                                                                            When you go to http://www.google.com you will note that there is a link called "Images".  If you click there and type in a word for the item which you want to see, it will pull up images of that item.  It's not 100% effective, but I would say about 95-99% of the time it comes up with the item I'm wanting to see.

                                                                                            You may come up with items that your wondering, what does that have to do with fish at all.  I've seen that happen.  Generally it's tied to the name of the image that was pulled up.  Try it, it works.  For example do a search on: Elephant Nose Fish.  You'll come up with:
                                                                                            http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=Elephant+Nose+Fish&btnG=Search

                                                                                            Oh, and if you put quotes around the item "Elephant Nose Fish", it will narrow down your search to a very specific item:
                                                                                            http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Elephant+Nose+Fish%22

                                                                                            Or you could do "Elephant Nose" fish
                                                                                            "Elephant Nose" Fish
                                                                                            http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Elephant+Nose%22+Fish

                                                                                            Anytime you can narrow down your search, your benefited, it will generally reduce the number of images to more what you are looking for.

                                                                                            Sorry for taking the time of all you internet search engine Pro's :)

                                                                                            --
                                                                                            Chat with you later,
                                                                                            Alan
                                                                                             
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9428 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
                                                                                            would 75% be better.
                                                                                            Stacey 

                                                                                            agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                            ok I know that isn't good lots of ppl on this list before told me that.. so I would do a 50% water change like now.. and then see how they are acting.. Shannon
                                                                                            It was the table salt.
                                                                                            stacey 
                                                                                             


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                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9429 From: Amalthea Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: new to group/question about betas
                                                                                            he really does love it, and it's strange that he doesn't seem to fight
                                                                                            with anyone else who has flowing fins, might be the size of the tank
                                                                                            though...
                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                            Bored? Never Fear!
                                                                                            http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
                                                                                            On Mar 22, 2005, at 3:18 PM, Valeen Gonzalez wrote:

                                                                                            > ooooh, i bet your betta is in heaven in such a large tank! =)
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > --- Amalthea <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > > well, i tend to keep mine in my 55 gallon tank along with all my
                                                                                            > other
                                                                                            > > fish, so the temp is from 76-78 depending on the season (it tends
                                                                                            > to be
                                                                                            > > warmer in the winter in the tank from ambient heat in the room) when
                                                                                            > > kept at 74-76, the aggression generally decreases, though i have had
                                                                                            > > success keeping males and females together at higher temps. my tank
                                                                                            > is
                                                                                            > > planted though, which offers a lot of territories and hiding places
                                                                                            > and
                                                                                            > > that can greatly affect the outcome of a match as well.
                                                                                            > > amalthea
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9430 From: Anne Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: hi everyone
                                                                                            --- Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@...> wrote:
                                                                                            Hi Nigel, Sorry to hear about your diaster. Best of
                                                                                            luck filling the tanks. What are your favorites?
                                                                                            Anne




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                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9431 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
                                                                                            im not sure I would do the 50% see how they are acting and if they are like tripping out then do more... I have done up to 80% and been fine when I added melafix and my snails about died... Shannon
                                                                                            would 75% be better.
                                                                                            Stacey 
                                                                                             
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9432 From: Steve Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
                                                                                            Stacey,

                                                                                            I see that people have over reacted here and told you to change a large
                                                                                            amount of water real soon. You may have done this already, by the time you
                                                                                            receive this. It is not necessary to do anything. Your fish will be fine.
                                                                                            Don't worry. The salt w/iodine has gotten a bad rap for a long, long time.
                                                                                            The real problem, way back when, was the anti-caking agent used to keep the
                                                                                            salt free flowing. You'll also find this agent in other salts as well. It is
                                                                                            no big deal now.

                                                                                            The real question I have for you is why you added salt to your tank?

                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                            From: Stacey Mallow [mailto:krazy4mypets@...]
                                                                                            Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 7:10 PM
                                                                                            To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] Help! ASAP


                                                                                            I accidently put salt w/iodine in the tank earlier today and never knew
                                                                                            about the harm it will do to the fish - can I change the water and hope
                                                                                            that nothing happens to them.
                                                                                            Stacey


                                                                                            Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                            Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                            .
                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                            the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                            subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                            in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9433 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
                                                                                            Thank you for saying it first Steve,
                                                                                                I didn't want anyone to think I was picking on Stacy. I wondered myself why anyone would add salt to a fresh water fish Tank.
                                                                                                                              Lorie

                                                                                            Steve <steve@...> wrote:


                                                                                              
                                                                                             
                                                                                            This is a group for those with all kinds of pets, to come and share pictures and stories.
                                                                                             
                                                                                            This a group for those who love to come and talk about their nandays. To share stories, information, and photos.

                                                                                            __________________________________________________
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                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9434 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
                                                                                            I wouldn't call it an overreaction at all.. 50% isn't that crazy.. and if her fish were not liking it, it isn necessary.. when I was considering going to partial salt water everyone in this group that spoke up said that iodine was not good... so a good time to speak up would have been then if you were around.. Shannon

                                                                                            Stacey,

                                                                                            I see that people have over reacted here and told you to change a large
                                                                                            amount of water real soon. You may have done this already, by the time you
                                                                                            receive this. It is not necessary to do anything. Your fish will be fine.
                                                                                            Don't worry. The salt w/iodine has gotten a bad rap for a long, long time.
                                                                                            The real problem, way back when, was the anti-caking agent used to keep the
                                                                                            salt free flowing. You'll also find this agent in other salts as well. It is
                                                                                            no big deal now.

                                                                                            The real question I have for you is why you added salt to your tank?

                                                                                            \\Steve//
                                                                                             
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9435 From: paul helms Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: tank
                                                                                            anyone in ca interested in a 180 gallon tank with dual
                                                                                            overflows?
                                                                                            paul



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                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9436 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
                                                                                            I have salt in my tank ever since I had a infestation of ich and per the advice of this group most said it was harmless.. since then I have had no issues at all I think also with the salt they are happier seem more active.... I can tell when I have a low amount per their attitudes... I keep it at no more than 1 TB per 5 gallons..
                                                                                            Thank you for saying it first Steve,
                                                                                                I didn't want anyone to think I was picking on Stacy. I wondered myself why anyone would add salt to a fresh water fish Tank.
                                                                                                                              Lorie
                                                                                             
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9437 From: paul helms Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: aaron
                                                                                            Aaron,
                                                                                            I can definately help you with those otto's and save
                                                                                            you a trip. e mail me @ morlok@..., i don't
                                                                                            have your number anymore.
                                                                                            paul



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                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9438 From: bettamuse Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
                                                                                            Adding salt to "freshwater" tanks is a common practise. A lot of
                                                                                            freshwater fish benefit from a small amount of salt being added to
                                                                                            their tank e.g. most Australian native fish and cichlids do, but for
                                                                                            others its like putting a blowtorch to their skin. It is a good idea
                                                                                            to check if all your tank mates are salt tolerant before add any.

                                                                                            BM


                                                                                            > Thank you for saying it first Steve,
                                                                                            > I didn't want anyone to think I was picking on Stacy. I
                                                                                            wondered myself why anyone would add salt to a fresh water fish Tank.
                                                                                            > Lorie
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Steve <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > This is a group for those with all kinds of pets, to come and
                                                                                            share pictures and stories.
                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thepetpage
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > This a group for those who love to come and talk about their
                                                                                            nandays. To share stories, information, and photos.
                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nandaychatter
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > __________________________________________________
                                                                                            > Do You Yahoo!?
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                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9439 From: dumont53 Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                            Subject: Nessage Sent in Error
                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                              That last message from me was sent in error, please ignore my stupidity.
                                                                                               
                                                                                              We had some trouble with another group and this was sent to its members,
                                                                                               
                                                                                              Sorry
                                                                                              John in Nevada
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9440 From: dumont53 Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Digest Number 660
                                                                                              Just a second thought is there any way we can all sign a petition and have
                                                                                              it submitted to yahoo as a group.

                                                                                              If it was large enough they may not want the bad publicity.

                                                                                              John in Nevada



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                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9441 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: I need info with oscars
                                                                                              1. only way to tell for sure is to VENT the fish. Flip them over and look for tell tell signs. If you really want to try this let me know and I'll send you alink so you can see what you are looking for..
                                                                                              2. Yes Oscars are Oscars diffrent colors don't mean anything.
                                                                                              3. Oscars will lay there eggs on a flat surface usually a large flat rock but I've also seen them lay eggs on the bottom glass..
                                                                                              4. I'm not 100% sure if they will breed smaller then 10"-11" but thats when I have seen them start breeding.

                                                                                              check out the
                                                                                              http://www.theoscarspot.com/ for some great info.

                                                                                              rob
                                                                                              Indiana
                                                                                              USA



                                                                                              In a message dated 3/22/2005 7:22:54 PM US Eastern Standard Time, mnminiman88@... writes:


                                                                                              Ok... just a few questions that need answering if possible...


                                                                                              1. How can i tell gender of oscar?
                                                                                              2. Will oscars of different types breed? ( such as albino and red
                                                                                              oscar? )
                                                                                              3. Do they lay eggs or are they like live bearers?
                                                                                              4. About how big do they have to be to mate?


                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9442 From: jazz Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                              First of all why the hell you are buying these fish?
                                                                                              ok you might have bought them whitout knowing where they come from.
                                                                                              do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?
                                                                                              i assume not.
                                                                                               
                                                                                              These fish  Parrots DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE they are genetically deformed on purpose so people will buy they looking also at their aspect.
                                                                                              Secondly blood parrots are dyed ie injected with colour prior being sold.
                                                                                              the black spot your fish is developing is an exzema or a type of fish cancer.
                                                                                              recent study showed that half of the fish injected with coulor develepoed some form of sickness which lead to their death.
                                                                                               
                                                                                              i URGE EVERYBODY NOT TO BUY THESE FISH
                                                                                              Joseph Azzopardi
                                                                                              Malta
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9443 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Help! Missing Fiddler Crab!
                                                                                              DID you check in the filter?

                                                                                              Nigel

                                                                                              --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                              ---------------------------------

                                                                                              Anyone have any ideas where I can look for my missing
                                                                                              Fiddler
                                                                                              Crab? My tank lid doesn't have any holes in it so he
                                                                                              can't have
                                                                                              escaped out of the tank. I've looked all over the tank
                                                                                              and cannot
                                                                                              seem to find the little devil! I need to take him out
                                                                                              so he can get
                                                                                              air. Of course the PetClub where I got him didn't tell
                                                                                              me that
                                                                                              Fiddlers are not completely aquatic and in fact live
                                                                                              on marshes
                                                                                              rather than in the ocean. So I went home last night
                                                                                              with a little
                                                                                              bowl to put him in for awhile but now I cannot find
                                                                                              him. I'm afraid
                                                                                              he's dead somewhere =(





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                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9444 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: hi everyone
                                                                                              Well actually to tell the truth i really dont konw
                                                                                              what are my favorite's! i like anabantides really alot
                                                                                              i but i also love oddballs! i really had a big mixture
                                                                                              of fish! I love all fish except one...Tetras! i dont
                                                                                              know why? they are beautiful fish but i really dont
                                                                                              like them in fact the last time i had a tetra was
                                                                                              about six years ago!

                                                                                              Nigel

                                                                                              --- Anne <md_gustoby@...> wrote:
                                                                                              ---------------------------------

                                                                                              --- Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@...> wrote:
                                                                                              Hi Nigel, Sorry to hear about your diaster. Best of
                                                                                              luck filling the tanks. What are your favorites?
                                                                                              Anne




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                                                                                              is not important to the reply and if changing the
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                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9445 From: paul helms Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Help! Missing Fiddler Crab!
                                                                                              check under your couch too
                                                                                              --- Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@...> wrote:
                                                                                              > DID you check in the filter?
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Nigel
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                              > ---------------------------------
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Anyone have any ideas where I can look for my
                                                                                              > missing
                                                                                              > Fiddler
                                                                                              > Crab? My tank lid doesn't have any holes in it so he
                                                                                              > can't have
                                                                                              > escaped out of the tank. I've looked all over the
                                                                                              > tank
                                                                                              > and cannot
                                                                                              > seem to find the little devil! I need to take him
                                                                                              > out
                                                                                              > so he can get
                                                                                              > air. Of course the PetClub where I got him didn't
                                                                                              > tell
                                                                                              > me that
                                                                                              > Fiddlers are not completely aquatic and in fact live
                                                                                              > on marshes
                                                                                              > rather than in the ocean. So I went home last night
                                                                                              > with a little
                                                                                              > bowl to put him in for awhile but now I cannot find
                                                                                              > him. I'm afraid
                                                                                              > he's dead somewhere =(
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                              > replying, thanks
                                                                                              > .
                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                              > that
                                                                                              > is not important to the reply and if changing the
                                                                                              > topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                              > line
                                                                                              > -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                              > Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
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                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9446 From: paul helms Date: 3/22/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                              cry me a river buddy
                                                                                              --- jazz <jazz001@...> wrote:
                                                                                              > First of all why the hell you are buying these fish?
                                                                                              > ok you might have bought them whitout knowing where
                                                                                              > they come from.
                                                                                              > do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?
                                                                                              > i assume not.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > These fish Parrots DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE they are
                                                                                              > genetically deformed on purpose so people will buy
                                                                                              > they looking also at their aspect.
                                                                                              > Secondly blood parrots are dyed ie injected with
                                                                                              > colour prior being sold.
                                                                                              > the black spot your fish is developing is an exzema
                                                                                              > or a type of fish cancer.
                                                                                              > recent study showed that half of the fish injected
                                                                                              > with coulor develepoed some form of sickness which
                                                                                              > lead to their death.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > i URGE EVERYBODY NOT TO BUY THESE FISH
                                                                                              > Joseph Azzopardi
                                                                                              > Malta



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                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9447 From: mrfabus Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                              Subject: feeding
                                                                                              how often do snowflake eels eat cause i have yet seen them eat and
                                                                                              i want to
                                                                                              make sure Im not doing anything wrong. tHERE ARE 3 EELS AND 3 GAR
                                                                                              PIKE. Any info would be nice. Thank you
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9448 From: Amalthea Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                              we've already discussed the fact that some of us are fine owning any
                                                                                              number of pets that "don't exist in nature." i don't think any level of
                                                                                              attack is going to cause people to stop buying them. i've yet to see
                                                                                              the pet store without fancy goldfish or bettas.
                                                                                              as for the dye, they are NOT all dyed. yes, a great many are, but some
                                                                                              are not. using sweeping generalities and fear tactics (your fish has
                                                                                              cancer!) doesn't help anything.
                                                                                              agree to disagree in this forum, we're never going to come to an
                                                                                              agreement on the issue, nor should we have to.
                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                              http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                              Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                              On Mar 23, 2005, at 2:15 AM, jazz wrote:

                                                                                              > First of all why the hell you are buying these fish?
                                                                                              > ok you might have bought them whitout knowing where they come from.
                                                                                              > do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?
                                                                                              > i assume not.
                                                                                              >  
                                                                                              > These fish  Parrots DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE they are genetically
                                                                                              > deformed on purpose so people will buy they looking also at their
                                                                                              > aspect.
                                                                                              > Secondly blood parrots are dyed ie injected with colour prior being
                                                                                              > sold.
                                                                                              > the black spot your fish is developing is an exzema or a type of fish
                                                                                              > cancer.
                                                                                              > recent study showed that half of the fish injected with coulor
                                                                                              > develepoed some form of sickness which lead to their death.
                                                                                              >  
                                                                                              > i URGE EVERYBODY NOT TO BUY THESE FISH
                                                                                              > Joseph Azzopardi
                                                                                              > Malta
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                              > .
                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                              > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                              > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                              > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
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                                                                                              >  
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                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9449 From: jazz Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                              Mine is not an attack on any body to make that clear
                                                                                              facts are facts
                                                                                              you can either believe them
                                                                                              or do like the ostrich borrow your head in the sand and hear nor see anything.
                                                                                              joseph
                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              From: Amalthea
                                                                                              Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 9:04 AM
                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                              we've already discussed the fact that some of us are fine owning any number of pets that "don't exist in nature." i don't think any level of attack is going to cause people to stop buying them. i've yet to see the pet store without fancy goldfish or bettas.
                                                                                              as for the dye, they are NOT all dyed. yes, a great many are, but some are not. using sweeping generalities and fear tactics (your fish has cancer!) doesn't help anything.
                                                                                              agree to disagree in this forum, we're never going to come to an agreement on the issue, nor should we have to.
                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                              http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                              Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                              On Mar 23, 2005, at 2:15 AM, jazz wrote:

                                                                                              First of all why the hell you are buying these fish?
                                                                                              ok you might have bought them whitout knowing where they come from.
                                                                                              do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?
                                                                                              i assume not.
                                                                                               
                                                                                              These fish  Parrots DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE they are genetically deformed on purpose so people will buy they looking also at their aspect.
                                                                                              Secondly blood parrots are dyed ie injected with colour prior being sold.
                                                                                              the black spot your fish is developing is an exzema or a type of fish cancer.
                                                                                              recent study showed that half of the fish injected with coulor develepoed some form of sickness which lead to their death.
                                                                                               
                                                                                              i URGE EVERYBODY NOT TO BUY THESE FISH
                                                                                              Joseph Azzopardi
                                                                                              Malta


                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                              .
                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9450 From: jazz Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: introduction
                                                                                              the facade of a group can be similar,nothing is copyright!
                                                                                              the inside is different!
                                                                                              jazz
                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              From: "joequality1980" <crazy.joe.walcek@...>
                                                                                              To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 10:05 PM
                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: introduction


                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Because the Malta society has almost the exact same introductory
                                                                                              > information on the homepage as this group
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                              > <nigelchetcuti@y...> wrote:
                                                                                              > > Why is it hilarious what's wrong with having a an
                                                                                              > > aquarist society?
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Nigel
                                                                                              > > --- jazz <jazz001@d...> wrote:
                                                                                              > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                              > > why is it -Ha Ha LOL, That's hilarious!?
                                                                                              > > ---- Original Message -----
                                                                                              > > From: "Aaron" <massagetherapist@m...>
                                                                                              > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                              > > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 11:53 AM
                                                                                              > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: introduction
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > > Ha Ha LOL, That's hilarious!
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R.
                                                                                              > > Martin, cmt"
                                                                                              > > > <anonymous122899@y...> wrote:
                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                              > > > > Nice group, Impressive Description on the Groups
                                                                                              > > Home Page,
                                                                                              > > > however
                                                                                              > > > > it does seem to be suspiciously familiar?!
                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                              > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jazz"
                                                                                              > > <jazz001@d...> wrote:
                                                                                              > > > > > I would like to introduce to this group The
                                                                                              > > Malta Aquarist
                                                                                              > > > > Society.founded in 1970.
                                                                                              > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/buzaqq/
                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                              > > > > > the fish on the logo is the "Buzaqq" Maltese
                                                                                              > > for Aphanius
                                                                                              > > > > Fasciatus the only fresh /brackish water fish
                                                                                              > > found on our island
                                                                                              > > > > Malta.
                                                                                              > > > > > THANKS
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                              > > replying, thanks
                                                                                              > > > .
                                                                                              > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                              > > that is not important to
                                                                                              > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                              > > message modify the
                                                                                              > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                              > > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                              > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                              > > replying, thanks
                                                                                              > > .
                                                                                              > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that
                                                                                              > > is not important to the reply and if changing the
                                                                                              > > topic of the original message modify the subject line
                                                                                              > > -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                              > > Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                              > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                              > > Terms of Service.
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Send instant messages to your online friends
                                                                                              > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                              > .
                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                              the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                              subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                              in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
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                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9451 From: jazz Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: I need info with oscars
                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              From: "mnminiman88" <mnminiman88@...>
                                                                                              To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                              Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 1:20 AM
                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] I need info with oscars


                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Ok... just a few questions that need answering if possible...
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > 1. How can i tell gender of oscar?
                                                                                              the gender can be seen only in breeding when the female produces its egg
                                                                                              laying tube.some say that they can be identified by the hump on fore head
                                                                                              but the only true gender identification is in breeding.
                                                                                              > 2. Will oscars of different types breed? ( such as albino and red >
                                                                                              oscar? )

                                                                                              the answer is yes they will breed but it is not recommemded mixing speices

                                                                                              > 3. Do they lay eggs or are they like live bearers?
                                                                                              they are egg layers, they will burrow in the gravel like most chichlids
                                                                                              > 4. About how big do they have to be to mate?
                                                                                              they will have to be at least 2 years old in my opinion


                                                                                              jazz
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Thank you...
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                              > .
                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                              the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                              subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                              in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9452 From: Aaron Alcoholic Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                              Subject: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine (was - "Re: [AquaticLife] Blood P
                                                                                              where can I get "The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine"
                                                                                               
                                                                                              (where is Malta?)

                                                                                              jazz <jazz001@...> wrote:
                                                                                              do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?
                                                                                               
                                                                                              Joseph Azzopardi
                                                                                              Malta


                                                                                              Aaron R. Martin

                                                                                              (925) 371-8782

                                                                                              Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)

                                                                                              got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife

                                                                                              stop by and see ~ membership is free!

                                                                                              __________________________________________________
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                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9453 From: jazz Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine (was - "Re: [AquaticLife] Blo
                                                                                              The  PFK  is a monthly magazine published in the uk we find to buy in our news agents in Malta,by the way Malta is a small island in the Mediterranean sea,right in the middle of the sea between Sicily and the African continent.
                                                                                              below is a link to the pfk site regarding dyed fish and the symptoms etc etc.
                                                                                              jazz
                                                                                              MALTA
                                                                                               
                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 9:51 AM
                                                                                              Subject: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine (was - "Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots")

                                                                                              where can I get "The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine"
                                                                                               
                                                                                              (where is Malta?)

                                                                                              jazz <jazz001@...> wrote:
                                                                                              do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?
                                                                                               
                                                                                              Joseph Azzopardi
                                                                                              Malta


                                                                                              Aaron R. Martin

                                                                                              (925) 371-8782

                                                                                              Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)

                                                                                              got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife

                                                                                              stop by and see ~ membership is free!

                                                                                              __________________________________________________
                                                                                              Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                              http://mail.yahoo.com

                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                              .
                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9454 From: Aaron Alcoholic Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: introduction

                                                                                              "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

                                                                                              author unknown (by me anyway)

                                                                                              Hi Jazz,

                                                                                              I meant no harm by my remark, taken or otherwise, just was humored - thats all.

                                                                                              It is perfectly fine by me, I was merely being a bit Sarcastic when I said;

                                                                                               "Description on the (buzaqq)Groups Home Page...(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/buzaqq/)

                                                                                              ...does seem to be suspiciously familiar?!"

                                                                                              I'm dlad to have you as part of the AquaticLife Group as well.


                                                                                              jazz <jazz001@...> wrote:

                                                                                              the facade of a group can be similar,nothing is copyright!
                                                                                              the inside is different!
                                                                                              jazz


                                                                                              ----- > Because the Malta society has almost the exact same introductory information on the homepage as this group


                                                                                              > ---  Why is it hilarious what's wrong with having a an
                                                                                              > > aquarist society?
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Nigel


                                                                                              > > --- jazz <jazz001@d...> wrote:
                                                                                              > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                              > > why is it -Ha Ha LOL, That's hilarious!?


                                                                                              > > ---- Original Message -----
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > > Ha Ha LOL, That's hilarious!
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > > --- In AquaticLife
                                                                                              > > > > Nice group, Impressive Description on the Groups
                                                                                              > > Home Page,however it does seem to be suspiciously familiar?!



                                                                                              Aaron R. Martin

                                                                                              (925) 371-8782

                                                                                              Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)

                                                                                              got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife

                                                                                              stop by and see ~ membership is free!

                                                                                              __________________________________________________
                                                                                              Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                              http://mail.yahoo.com

                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9455 From: Aaron Alcoholic Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: introduction
                                                                                              Hi Joseph,
                                                                                               
                                                                                              oops, typo - should have read -
                                                                                               
                                                                                              "I'm glad to have you as part of the AquaticLife Group as well."
                                                                                               
                                                                                              with a 'g' not "I'm dlad... "


                                                                                              Aaron R. Martin

                                                                                              (925) 371-8782

                                                                                              Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)

                                                                                              got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife

                                                                                              stop by and see ~ membership is free!

                                                                                              __________________________________________________
                                                                                              Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                              http://mail.yahoo.com

                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9456 From: Amalthea Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                              or, you can accept that it's your opinion that breeding for esthetics
                                                                                              is immoral and move on, continuing to feel otherwise. just because
                                                                                              someone doesn't believe things as you do, does not mean they're
                                                                                              "burrying their heads in the sand."
                                                                                              i love my parrot fish, my corgi, and my betta, among many other
                                                                                              "altered" animals i have met and kept, all of which have lived
                                                                                              "unnaturally" long lives.
                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                              http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                              Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                              On Mar 23, 2005, at 3:30 AM, jazz wrote:

                                                                                              > Mine is not an attack on any body to make that clear
                                                                                              > facts are facts
                                                                                              > you can either believe them
                                                                                              > or do like the ostrich borrow your head in the sand and hear nor see
                                                                                              > anything.
                                                                                              > joseph
                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              > From: Amalthea
                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 9:04 AM
                                                                                              > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > we've already discussed the fact that some of us are fine owning any
                                                                                              > number of pets that "don't exist in nature." i don't think any level
                                                                                              > of attack is going to cause people to stop buying them. i've yet to
                                                                                              > see the pet store without fancy goldfish or bettas.
                                                                                              > as for the dye, they are NOT all dyed. yes, a great many are, but
                                                                                              > some are not. using sweeping generalities and fear tactics (your fish
                                                                                              > has cancer!) doesn't help anything.
                                                                                              > agree to disagree in this forum, we're never going to come to an
                                                                                              > agreement on the issue, nor should we have to.
                                                                                              > amalthea
                                                                                              > http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                              > Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                              > On Mar 23, 2005, at 2:15 AM, jazz wrote:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > First of all why the hell you are buying these fish?
                                                                                              > ok you might have bought them whitout knowing where they come from.
                                                                                              > do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?
                                                                                              > i assume not.
                                                                                              >  
                                                                                              > These fish  Parrots DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE they are genetically
                                                                                              > deformed on purpose so people will buy they looking also at their
                                                                                              > aspect.
                                                                                              > Secondly blood parrots are dyed ie injected with colour prior being
                                                                                              > sold.
                                                                                              > the black spot your fish is developing is an exzema or a type of fish
                                                                                              > cancer.
                                                                                              > recent study showed that half of the fish injected with coulor
                                                                                              > develepoed some form of sickness which lead to their death.
                                                                                              >  
                                                                                              > i URGE EVERYBODY NOT TO BUY THESE FISH
                                                                                              > Joseph Azzopardi
                                                                                              > Malta
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                              > .
                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                              > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                              > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                              > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > <22305_0205_016_b_300250_a.gif>
                                                                                              > <l.gif>
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                              >  
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                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9457 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine (was - "Re: [AquaticLife] Blo

                                                                                              That is a brilliant magazine. I would hate myself for not subscribing to it as I have got used to it now for over a couple of years. J

                                                                                               

                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                               

                                                                                               


                                                                                              From: jazz [mailto:jazz001@...]
                                                                                              Sent: 23 March 2005 09:07
                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              Subject: Re: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine (was - "Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots")

                                                                                               

                                                                                              The  PFK  is a monthly magazine published in the uk we find to buy in our news agents in Malta,by the way Malta is a small island in the Mediterranean sea,right in the middle of the sea between Sicily and the African continent.

                                                                                              below is a link to the pfk site regarding dyed fish and the symptoms etc etc.

                                                                                              jazz

                                                                                              MALTA

                                                                                               

                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                              Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 9:51 AM

                                                                                              Subject: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine (was - "Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots")

                                                                                               

                                                                                              where can I get "The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine"

                                                                                               

                                                                                              (where is Malta ?)

                                                                                              jazz <jazz001@...> wrote:

                                                                                              do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?

                                                                                               

                                                                                              Joseph Azzopardi

                                                                                              Malta

                                                                                               

                                                                                              Aaron R. Martin

                                                                                              (925) 371-8782

                                                                                              Livermore CA ( San Francisco Bay Area)

                                                                                              got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife

                                                                                              stop by and see ~ membership is free!

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                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9458 From: jazz Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: introduction
                                                                                              THANKS
                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 10:33 AM
                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: introduction

                                                                                              Hi Joseph,
                                                                                               
                                                                                              oops, typo - should have read -
                                                                                               
                                                                                              "I'm glad to have you as part of the AquaticLife Group as well."
                                                                                               
                                                                                              with a 'g' not "I'm dlad... "


                                                                                              Aaron R. Martin

                                                                                              (925) 371-8782

                                                                                              Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)

                                                                                              got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife

                                                                                              stop by and see ~ membership is free!

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                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9459 From: jazz Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
                                                                                              DO NOT WORRY ABOUT IODINE IN SALT
                                                                                              ONLY FEW QUANTITIES ARE ADDED TO THE SALT THAT DOESN'T AFFECT YOUR AQUARIUM=M SYSTEM
                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 2:10 AM
                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! ASAP

                                                                                              It was the table salt.
                                                                                              stacey 

                                                                                              agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                              what kind of salt did you put in... was it kosher or table salt.. that is bad pickling salt is good... Shannon
                                                                                              hope soooo! I put 2 tablespoons in for my 10 gallon tank. I just put it in late this morning and just was told by my sister-in-law about the Iodine in the salt. I am so worried and need help!
                                                                                              Stacey
                                                                                               


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                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9460 From: Steve Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
                                                                                              Shannon,

                                                                                              As I recall, in that thread, very few people were willing to share my views
                                                                                              on the subject.

                                                                                              Nothing in her original message indicated a problem with her fish, hence, no
                                                                                              real need for a water change.

                                                                                              The amount of the salt added and the way it seems to have been added would
                                                                                              probably have more to do with any distress that her fish may have been
                                                                                              showing, again, Stacey did not indicate any adverse reaction by her fish,
                                                                                              and may have called for changing some water.

                                                                                              Indeed, at the first sign of a problem, I have often done a water change
                                                                                              myself as a first step in resolving the problem. However, based upon
                                                                                              Stacey's message, she was more worried about the addition of salt that
                                                                                              contained iodine, based on a common myth in the hobby than she was about the
                                                                                              reason the salt was added. First, dispel the myth, which is probably near
                                                                                              impossible after all these years that it has been taken as gospel, then,
                                                                                              find out why the salt was thought to be necessary. She may well have had a
                                                                                              good reason to add the salt, in which a water change would negate any good
                                                                                              that salt would have accomplished. The immediate knee jerk reaction to
                                                                                              change a large amount of water, after the addition of the salt, may put the
                                                                                              fish through more stress, and possibly lead to the loss of fish, if the salt
                                                                                              was added for therapeutic reasons. The fish will have undergone two large
                                                                                              osmotic changes in a relatively short period of time, leading to more stress
                                                                                              on the fish themselves. Should the fish already have a problem, the
                                                                                              additional stress could put them over the edge.

                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                              From: agentscullyeyore@... [mailto:agentscullyeyore@...]
                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 11:16 PM
                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! ASAP


                                                                                              I wouldn't call it an overreaction at all.. 50% isn't that crazy.. and if
                                                                                              her fish were not liking it, it isn necessary.. when I was considering going
                                                                                              to partial salt water everyone in this group that spoke up said that iodine
                                                                                              was not good... so a good time to speak up would have been then if you were
                                                                                              around.. Shannon

                                                                                              Stacey,

                                                                                              I see that people have over reacted here and told you to change a large
                                                                                              amount of water real soon. You may have done this already, by the time you
                                                                                              receive this. It is not necessary to do anything. Your fish will be fine.
                                                                                              Don't worry. The salt w/iodine has gotten a bad rap for a long, long time.
                                                                                              The real problem, way back when, was the anti-caking agent used to keep the
                                                                                              salt free flowing. You'll also find this agent in other salts as well. It is
                                                                                              no big deal now.

                                                                                              The real question I have for you is why you added salt to your tank?

                                                                                              \\Steve//
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9461 From: Steve Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                              Joseph,

                                                                                              Could you please cite the study to which you refer?


                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                              From: jazz [mailto:jazz001@...]
                                                                                              Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 2:16 AM
                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots


                                                                                              First of all why the hell you are buying these fish?
                                                                                              ok you might have bought them whitout knowing where they come from.
                                                                                              do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?
                                                                                              i assume not.

                                                                                              These fish Parrots DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE they are genetically deformed on
                                                                                              purpose so people will buy they looking also at their aspect.
                                                                                              Secondly blood parrots are dyed ie injected with colour prior being sold.
                                                                                              the black spot your fish is developing is an exzema or a type of fish
                                                                                              cancer.
                                                                                              recent study showed that half of the fish injected with coulor develepoed
                                                                                              some form of sickness which lead to their death.

                                                                                              i URGE EVERYBODY NOT TO BUY THESE FISH
                                                                                              Joseph Azzopardi
                                                                                              Malta
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9462 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine (was - "Re: [AquaticLife] Blo
                                                                                              go to this website....

                                                                                              www.practical.fishkeeping.co.uk
                                                                                              i take the yearly order it is good! and cheaper then
                                                                                              buying them separately! I suggest you do that as well
                                                                                              Joseph

                                                                                              Nigel
                                                                                              --- Aaron Alcoholic <anonymous122899@...> wrote:
                                                                                              > where can I get "The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine"
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > (where is Malta?)
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > jazz <jazz001@...> wrote:
                                                                                              > do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Joseph Azzopardi
                                                                                              > Malta
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Aaron R. Martin
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > (925) 371-8782
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for
                                                                                              > you!
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
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                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9463 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: I need info with oscars
                                                                                              Questions answered in brief below
                                                                                              \
                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mnminiman88" <mnminiman88@y...>
                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Ok... just a few questions that need answering if possible...
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > 1. How can i tell gender of oscar? By Venting
                                                                                              > 2. Will oscars of different types breed? ( such as albino and red
                                                                                              > oscar? ) Yes
                                                                                              > 3. Do they lay eggs or are they like live bearers? Eggs
                                                                                              > 4. About how big do they have to be to mate? 6" - 7"
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Thank you...
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9464 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                              Hi steve

                                                                                              THe site that we are talking about is the
                                                                                              www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk it has alot of info in
                                                                                              it and there is a good bunch of info about the Dyed
                                                                                              fish thing! It is a campaign that is trying to stop
                                                                                              the "production" of genetically modified and unnatural
                                                                                              fish!

                                                                                              Nigel
                                                                                              --- Steve <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Joseph,
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Could you please cite the study to which you refer?
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                              > From: jazz [mailto:jazz001@...]
                                                                                              > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 2:16 AM
                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > First of all why the hell you are buying these fish?
                                                                                              > ok you might have bought them whitout knowing where
                                                                                              > they come from.
                                                                                              > do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?
                                                                                              > i assume not.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > These fish Parrots DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE they are
                                                                                              > genetically deformed on
                                                                                              > purpose so people will buy they looking also at
                                                                                              > their aspect.
                                                                                              > Secondly blood parrots are dyed ie injected with
                                                                                              > colour prior being sold.
                                                                                              > the black spot your fish is developing is an exzema
                                                                                              > or a type of fish
                                                                                              > cancer.
                                                                                              > recent study showed that half of the fish injected
                                                                                              > with coulor develepoed
                                                                                              > some form of sickness which lead to their death.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > i URGE EVERYBODY NOT TO BUY THESE FISH
                                                                                              > Joseph Azzopardi
                                                                                              > Malta
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
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                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9465 From: jazz Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                              Subject: study on dyde fish
                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                Why it's cruel to dye
                                                                                                Dr Stan MacMahon and Dr Peter Burgess explain the damage done to fish when
                                                                                                they are barbarically injected with dye.

                                                                                                Some fishkeepers, and possibly even a few traders, may be puzzled as to why
                                                                                                so much fuss has been made about dyed fish. On the face of it, the practice
                                                                                                of dyeing or "painting" the fish seems fairly innocuous and the artificially
                                                                                                dyed specimens are certainly very eye-catching in their various "day-glo"
                                                                                                colours. So why push for a voluntary ban on selling them? Our investigations
                                                                                                have revealed the truth behind the dyed fish saga.

                                                                                                Disco fish
                                                                                                Our first encounter with dyed fish was back in the late 1980's. Thousands of
                                                                                                artificially coloured glassfish, Parambassis ranga (formerly Chanda ranga)
                                                                                                were imported into the UK.

                                                                                                The glassfish, so named because of its naturally semi-transparent body,
                                                                                                obviously makes it an ideal subject for "painting".

                                                                                                They were seen with fluorescent shades of either blue, purple, red, yellow,
                                                                                                orange or green produced by dyes.

                                                                                                They were (and still are) imported under the names "painted glassfish" or
                                                                                                "disco fish" (presumably because their almost fluorescent colours resemble
                                                                                                discotheque lights).

                                                                                                How is the dye applied?
                                                                                                Intrigued as to how the dye was applied we decided to carry out a little
                                                                                                research. A few coloured glassfish were sedated in MS222 anaesthetic and
                                                                                                observed under a binocular microscope. It became apparent that the dye is
                                                                                                not on the surface of the fish, but lay under the epidermis.

                                                                                                Furthermore, the dye appeared fluid and could be moved slightly by gently
                                                                                                squeezing the coloured area.

                                                                                                This suggested that it must have been injected into the fish at various
                                                                                                sites over the body in order to form the distinctive colour patterns. Our
                                                                                                fears were confirmed a few years later when we were shown photographs of the
                                                                                                colouring process, revealing that each fish is individually injected using a
                                                                                                syringe and needle.

                                                                                                The practice of dye injection is undertaken by fish farmers in some regions
                                                                                                of Asia (but not Singapore as far as we know). Clearly, the common name
                                                                                                "painted glassfish" is a cruelly misleading description.

                                                                                                If one considers the relative bore size of the injection needle with that of
                                                                                                a glassfish, it would be the equivalent of us receiving several jabs using a
                                                                                                needle of pencil-sized diameter - not a pleasant thought.

                                                                                                As experienced fish scientists, we would never dream of injecting fish of
                                                                                                such small size. No wonder the injection process is alleged to cause high
                                                                                                mortalities.

                                                                                                Increasing the risk of disease...
                                                                                                A survey which we carried out in the south of England revealed that over 40%
                                                                                                of painted glassfish appeared to be suffering from lymphocystis virus. This
                                                                                                disease manifests itself as a small whitish growths on the fish's body and
                                                                                                fins.

                                                                                                An examination of the white growths under the powerful electron microscope
                                                                                                confirmed our diagnosis. In contrast, less than 10% of the natural
                                                                                                (unpainted) glassfish had lymphocystis.

                                                                                                It is possible that the injection process increases the risk of this
                                                                                                disease, perhaps by transmitting the virus from fish to fish via the needle
                                                                                                (the same needle is used to inject tens or even hundreds of fish).

                                                                                                Alternatively, the stress of being injected with the dye may lower the fish'
                                                                                                s natural immunity to lymphocystis. It must be said that, in our experience,
                                                                                                those glassfish which survive the injection process go on to live fairly
                                                                                                normal lives, despite the gaudy dyes present within their bodies. In time,
                                                                                                the dye fades.

                                                                                                Moral issue
                                                                                                Many people believe that fish do not feel pain and so injecting them with
                                                                                                dyes is perfectly acceptable. In fact, increasing scientific evidence
                                                                                                suggests that fish are indeed capable of feeling pain, though we have no way
                                                                                                of telling whether they perceive painful events in the same way as we do.

                                                                                                So dye injection is likely to be a painful experience for the poor
                                                                                                glassfish. In fairness, many traders and hobbyists were mislead, just as we
                                                                                                first were, into thinking that these fish were simply painted with the dye.
                                                                                                Now that the truth is out, it's time to stop this cruel practice, once and
                                                                                                for all.

                                                                                                Other species which are sometimes dyed
                                                                                                Glassfish are not the only species which are subjected to artificial
                                                                                                colouring.

                                                                                                Many types of albino fish also make ideal "white cavasses" for colouring. We
                                                                                                have observed the following artificially coloured fish in the UK, and
                                                                                                suspect there may be others.

                                                                                                Albino versions of Corydoras catfish, such as aeneus; Tiger barbs; Albino
                                                                                                Epalzeorhynchus (formerly Labeo) such as the Red-finned shark; Black widow
                                                                                                tetras; Rams and some Botia species.

                                                                                                Typically these exhibit red or blue on part of the body, but the dyes are
                                                                                                not as bright or gaudy as those used to inject glassfish.

                                                                                                Fish which have pale or semi-transparent bodies such as the glassfish,
                                                                                                Kryptoterus, also suffer.



                                                                                                Other fish on offer

                                                                                                One supplier in Thailand currently offers a very wide range of dyed fish on
                                                                                                its online stock list which are clearly marked as being injected. Their
                                                                                                stocklist is shown below.

                                                                                                Color Silver Shark
                                                                                                Color Albino Rainbow Shark
                                                                                                Color Albino Irridescent Shark
                                                                                                Mixcolor Ompok
                                                                                                Red Ompok
                                                                                                Blue Ompok
                                                                                                Green Ompok
                                                                                                Yellow Ompok
                                                                                                Orange Ompok
                                                                                                Purple Ompok
                                                                                                Pink Ompok
                                                                                                Tinfoil Blushing-blue
                                                                                                Tinfoil Blushing-red
                                                                                                Tinfoil Blushing-green
                                                                                                Tinfoil Blushing-pink
                                                                                                Tinfoil Blushing-purple
                                                                                                Tinfoil Assorted Color
                                                                                                Color Tiger Barb
                                                                                                Color Redtail Botia
                                                                                                Blue Redtail Botia
                                                                                                Red Redtail Botia
                                                                                                Green Redtail Botia
                                                                                                Yellow Redtail Botia
                                                                                                Orange Redtail Botia
                                                                                                Purple Redtail Botia
                                                                                                Pink Redtail Botia
                                                                                                Two Color Glass Fish
                                                                                                Red Glass Fish
                                                                                                Blue Glass Fish
                                                                                                Green Glass Fish
                                                                                                Yellow Glass Fish
                                                                                                Orange Glass Fish
                                                                                                Purple Glass Fish
                                                                                                Pink Glass Fish
                                                                                                Black Color Glass Fish
                                                                                                Color Tetra
                                                                                                Red Tetra
                                                                                                Blue Tetra
                                                                                                Green Tetra
                                                                                                Yellow Tetra
                                                                                                Orange Tetra
                                                                                                Purple Tetra
                                                                                                Pink Tetra
                                                                                                Black Tetra
                                                                                                White Tetra
                                                                                                Others...


                                                                                                The PFK Ban Dyed Fish Campaign

                                                                                                Practical Fishkeeping ran an award-winning campaign which started in 1996
                                                                                                and asked aquatic retailers to sign a pledge that they would not sell dyed
                                                                                                fish. The majority of British retailers signed up and dyed fish are now
                                                                                                relatively uncommon in the UK.

                                                                                                This article was first published in the March 1998 issue of Practical
                                                                                                Fishkeeping.



                                                                                                Dr Stan MacMahon and Dr Peter Burgess (published online: 02.14.03) 927
                                                                                                words, 20579 hits
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9466 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: The DYed and unnatural fish
                                                                                                Hi guys

                                                                                                look in my opinion the use of unnatural fish and dyed
                                                                                                fish is not very nice for the fish itself that you dye
                                                                                                a fish and make it purple colour or i dont know what
                                                                                                the hell other colours isnt nice! Now they found a way
                                                                                                to genetically modify and alter the coloration and if
                                                                                                noone has ever seen them there are also GLOWLIGHT
                                                                                                DANIOS they are genetically modified fish!They have a
                                                                                                much shorter life and well i think that i dont like
                                                                                                being one of them! we cannot play with nature and do
                                                                                                fish as we like them to be.
                                                                                                One last thing is this...what will all those people
                                                                                                who just have an aquarium in the living room or there
                                                                                                kinds and when they go a new fish for the first time
                                                                                                choose a normal glass fish or a "modified" green
                                                                                                highlighted colour glass fish or a purple albino red
                                                                                                tail shark?
                                                                                                well the newcomers to the hobby will go for the
                                                                                                modified ones then they go home and after some few
                                                                                                months they die or discolour and start hating the fish
                                                                                                and goodbye fish and tank and everything with. This
                                                                                                happened to some friends of mine so i am not
                                                                                                inventing!

                                                                                                Nigel

                                                                                                Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9467 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: I need info with oscars
                                                                                                Jazz (& mnminiman88), There are subtle differences in the sexes of
                                                                                                Oscars, more noticeable the bigger they get, and these are
                                                                                                generalities. As with many Cichlids, the male's dorsal fin (& anal
                                                                                                fin) is slightly more pointed. The female's head is more rounder;
                                                                                                the male developing a more "bull head" as he gets larger. Some
                                                                                                hobbyists having more experience with Oscars can sex them just by
                                                                                                looking at them, but that doesn't help the beginner, although you
                                                                                                could ask an experienced Oscar handler if you know one. Venting them
                                                                                                is a surer way to determine their sex; turning them upside down to
                                                                                                view the vent area, the male has a greater distance between his sex
                                                                                                vent and his anus (this area looks like two separate "O"'s). The
                                                                                                females vent (ovipositor) and her anus are closer together resulting
                                                                                                in the area looking like a figure "8". The anus, by the way is
                                                                                                situated forward of the sex organ vents.
                                                                                                \
                                                                                                Different types of Oscars will interbreed as the different varieties
                                                                                                of A. ocellatus are all ONE SPECIES (you are not mixing species). To
                                                                                                obtain pure strains (all of one color type) its best not to mix them,
                                                                                                however, if the object is to produce two different varieties (Red and
                                                                                                Tiger for instance), you need to mix them -- have two different color
                                                                                                variety parents. Only problem here is that 50% of the dominant
                                                                                                appearing offspring will be carrying the recessive traits of the
                                                                                                other parent, depending on what genes are in their background.
                                                                                                \
                                                                                                They are hard substrate spawners, meaning that they will dig out sand
                                                                                                until that get to a hard surface (Rock, bottom of aquarium, etc.) and
                                                                                                deposit their eggs on this surface. Usually, flat rocks are provided
                                                                                                over the sand (or a bare bottom) for this purpose.
                                                                                                \
                                                                                                Yes, about 20 to 24 months is the required age at which time they
                                                                                                should be at least 6" to 7" in length. In very large aquariums and
                                                                                                with more feeding, they may attain a somewhat larger size at this
                                                                                                time, but maturity for breeding purposes really depends on the time.
                                                                                                Regards, Ray
                                                                                                \
                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jazz" <jazz001@d...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                > From: "mnminiman88" <mnminiman88@y...>
                                                                                                > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 1:20 AM
                                                                                                > Subject: [AquaticLife] I need info with oscars
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Ok... just a few questions that need answering if possible...
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > 1. How can i tell gender of oscar?
                                                                                                > the gender can be seen only in breeding when the female produces
                                                                                                its egg
                                                                                                > laying tube.some say that they can be identified by the hump on
                                                                                                fore head
                                                                                                > but the only true gender identification is in breeding.
                                                                                                > > 2. Will oscars of different types breed? ( such as albino and red
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > oscar? )
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > the answer is yes they will breed but it is not recommemded mixing
                                                                                                speices
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > > 3. Do they lay eggs or are they like live bearers?
                                                                                                > they are egg layers, they will burrow in the gravel like most
                                                                                                chichlids
                                                                                                > > 4. About how big do they have to be to mate?
                                                                                                > they will have to be at least 2 years old in my opinion
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > jazz
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Thank you...
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                important to
                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                the
                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                Thank You
                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9468 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: curosity of Why I -
                                                                                                Okay~
                                                                                                I am going to fullfill everyone's curiosity. The reason I added the Salt is because I have Mollies and Guppies only in the tank. I was reading that these fish need some salt. I am new at this hobby so I am not offended of what is being said. I have already changed about 80% of the water. I guess you may consider me as the "DUMMY"for fish hobby.(HA!HA!)
                                                                                                Stacey 
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                  


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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9469 From: Genevieve Floberg Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
                                                                                                you are not a dummy salt is good for mollies it helps their gills from sticking and it helps them breath anyone that says its bad for them needs to do more research your not a dummy your just learning.

                                                                                                Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:
                                                                                                Okay~
                                                                                                I am going to fullfill everyone's curiosity. The reason I added the Salt is because I have Mollies and Guppies only in the tank. I was reading that these fish need some salt. I am new at this hobby so I am not offended of what is being said. I have already changed about 80% of the water. I guess you may consider me as the "DUMMY"for fish hobby.(HA!HA!)
                                                                                                Stacey 
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                  


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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9470 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
                                                                                                Yes~
                                                                                                I accidently added table salt with Iodine in it yesterday morning and ended up changing 80% of the water -I hope the fish do not die. I put some of the start right in the water,too.
                                                                                                I read that the Iodine is bad for the fish.
                                                                                                Stacey  

                                                                                                Genevieve Floberg <nativelady76@...> wrote:
                                                                                                you are not a dummy salt is good for mollies it helps their gills from sticking and it helps them breath anyone that says its bad for them needs to do more research your not a dummy your just learning.

                                                                                                Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:
                                                                                                Okay~
                                                                                                I am going to fullfill everyone's curiosity. The reason I added the Salt is because I have Mollies and Guppies only in the tank. I was reading that these fish need some salt. I am new at this hobby so I am not offended of what is being said. I have already changed about 80% of the water. I guess you may consider me as the "DUMMY"for fish hobby.(HA!HA!)
                                                                                                Stacey 
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                  


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                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                .
                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9471 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: The only dumb question is the one not asked...
                                                                                                Message
                                                                                                Right.  Stacey, have you ever heard that saying?  "The only dumb question is the one that is not asked"  It's very true, so never be afraid to ask questions.  I ask them all the time ;)
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                My question is...what to do about the Algae.  Seems to be getting worse slowly, and live plants look to be deteriorating very slowly. All water qualities are in the good range.  How long should the aquarium lights be on.  I had read 12 hours, and that is approximately how long I had mine on each day.  I've lowered this time to 10 hours, and now have them on timers, in case I forget ;)  The aquarium is in the living room where I have no problems growing many plants, such as my 8' tall Variegated corn plant, most philodendrons, and a few other plants whose name eludes me now.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                Also, what does everyone use to get the green algae off the sides of the glass.  Is the razor blade and scour pad the best thing?
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                I've never had problems with this stuff in my 125 gallon aquarium, but it's in a darker room, and I'm not growing live plants in it.

                                                                                                --
                                                                                                Chat with you later,
                                                                                                Alan
                                                                                                --
                                                                                                Chandler, Arizona        Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                ----- 
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                                                                                                *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
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                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                From: Genevieve Floberg [mailto:nativelady76@...]
                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 7:52 AM
                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] curosity of Why I -

                                                                                                you are not a dummy salt is good for mollies it helps their gills from sticking and it helps them breath anyone that says its bad for them needs to do more research your not a dummy your just learning.

                                                                                                Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:
                                                                                                Okay~
                                                                                                I am going to fullfill everyone's curiosity. The reason I added the Salt is because I have Mollies and Guppies only in the tank. I was reading that these fish need some salt. I am new at this hobby so I am not offended of what is being said. I have already changed about 80% of the water. I guess you may consider me as the "DUMMY"for fish hobby.(HA!HA!)
                                                                                                Stacey 
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                  


                                                                                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                .
                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9472 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: The only dumb question is the one not asked...
                                                                                                Message
                                                                                                Oh, one other thing I failed to mention.  My light source is around 4.5 watts per gallon of water
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                --
                                                                                                Chat with you later,
                                                                                                Alan
                                                                                                --
                                                                                                Chandler, Arizona        Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                ----- 
                                                                                                *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com. 
                                                                                                *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
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                                                                                                *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your address. 
                                                                                                *** Check them out at:
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                *****  Windows NT: Only 16 megs needed to play Minesweeper!
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 [mailto:alan.zelhart@...]
                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 8:17 AM
                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] The only dumb question is the one not asked...

                                                                                                Right.  Stacey, have you ever heard that saying?  "The only dumb question is the one that is not asked"  It's very true, so never be afraid to ask questions.  I ask them all the time ;)
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                My question is...what to do about the Algae.  Seems to be getting worse slowly, and live plants look to be deteriorating very slowly. All water qualities are in the good range.  How long should the aquarium lights be on.  I had read 12 hours, and that is approximately how long I had mine on each day.  I've lowered this time to 10 hours, and now have them on timers, in case I forget ;)  The aquarium is in the living room where I have no problems growing many plants, such as my 8' tall Variegated corn plant, most philodendrons, and a few other plants whose name eludes me now.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                Also, what does everyone use to get the green algae off the sides of the glass.  Is the razor blade and scour pad the best thing?
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                I've never had problems with this stuff in my 125 gallon aquarium, but it's in a darker room, and I'm not growing live plants in it.

                                                                                                --
                                                                                                Chat with you later,
                                                                                                Alan
                                                                                                --
                                                                                                Chandler, Arizona        Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                ----- 
                                                                                                *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com. 
                                                                                                *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
                                                                                                *** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening list called "OutGardening".
                                                                                                *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your address. 
                                                                                                *** Check them out at:

                                                                                                http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/listinfo/

                                                                                                *****  Plagiarism prohibited, derive carefully.
                                                                                                 

                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                From: Genevieve Floberg [mailto:nativelady76@...]
                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 7:52 AM
                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] curosity of Why I -

                                                                                                you are not a dummy salt is good for mollies it helps their gills from sticking and it helps them breath anyone that says its bad for them needs to do more research your not a dummy your just learning.

                                                                                                Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:
                                                                                                Okay~
                                                                                                I am going to fullfill everyone's curiosity. The reason I added the Salt is because I have Mollies and Guppies only in the tank. I was reading that these fish need some salt. I am new at this hobby so I am not offended of what is being said. I have already changed about 80% of the water. I guess you may consider me as the "DUMMY"for fish hobby.(HA!HA!)
                                                                                                Stacey 
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                  


                                                                                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                .
                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                .
                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter





                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                .
                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9473 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: The only dumb question is the one not asked...
                                                                                                Alan~
                                                                                                Sorry to take so long to respond trying to research a lovebird i am going to buy-like I need more pets. I have 1-Parrot,2-keets,1- tiel,3-dogs,4-fish and 3-doves and an egg hatched out this morning.
                                                                                                Anyway -enough about my pets. If was me I would replace all plants with new. Have you tried putting some type of chemical in the water for Algae? I heard only a few hours for the lights. I am not sure about the algae-Maybe you need to scrub with a Algae scrubber-not sure about the scrub pad. I wish I can be more help to you on this. Hope some of the others can help you on this-new at this too~

                                                                                                Stacey

                                                                                                 



                                                                                                Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 <alan.zelhart@...> wrote:
                                                                                                Right.  Stacey, have you ever heard that saying?  "The only dumb question is the one that is not asked"  It's very true, so never be afraid to ask questions.  I ask them all the time ;)
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                My question is...what to do about the Algae.  Seems to be getting worse slowly, and live plants look to be deteriorating very slowly. All water qualities are in the good range.  How long should the aquarium lights be on.  I had read 12 hours, and that is approximately how long I had mine on each day.  I've lowered this time to 10 hours, and now have them on timers, in case I forget ;)  The aquarium is in the living room where I have no problems growing many plants, such as my 8' tall Variegated corn plant, most philodendrons, and a few other plants whose name eludes me now.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                Also, what does everyone use to get the green algae off the sides of the glass.  Is the razor blade and scour pad the best thing?
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                I've never had problems with this stuff in my 125 gallon aquarium, but it's in a darker room, and I'm not growing live plants in it.

                                                                                                --
                                                                                                Chat with you later,
                                                                                                Alan
                                                                                                --
                                                                                                Chandler, Arizona        Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                ----- 
                                                                                                *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com. 
                                                                                                *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
                                                                                                *** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening list called "OutGardening".
                                                                                                *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your address. 
                                                                                                *** Check them out at:

                                                                                                http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/listinfo/

                                                                                                *****  Plagiarism prohibited, derive carefully.
                                                                                                 

                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                From: Genevieve Floberg [mailto:nativelady76@...]
                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 7:52 AM
                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] curosity of Why I -

                                                                                                you are not a dummy salt is good for mollies it helps their gills from sticking and it helps them breath anyone that says its bad for them needs to do more research your not a dummy your just learning.

                                                                                                Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:
                                                                                                Okay~
                                                                                                I am going to fullfill everyone's curiosity. The reason I added the Salt is because I have Mollies and Guppies only in the tank. I was reading that these fish need some salt. I am new at this hobby so I am not offended of what is being said. I have already changed about 80% of the water. I guess you may consider me as the "DUMMY"for fish hobby.(HA!HA!)
                                                                                                Stacey 
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                  


                                                                                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                .
                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9474 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Help! Missing Fiddler Crab!
                                                                                                ha ha - no, i know he can't have gotten out of the tank. cheers though because i finally saw him
                                                                                                this morning walking on the very top rock in the tank -- had been hiding in a previously unknown
                                                                                                to me hole in one of the rocks. how he got in there i do not know because it's a hole smaller than
                                                                                                he is.

                                                                                                but when i went to catch him he scuttled back into the darn hole & i didn't have time to catch him
                                                                                                before i left for work. ack! when i finally catch him i'm going to have block that hole with
                                                                                                another rock so he doesn't go back in there for days on end and possibly die in there.

                                                                                                --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                > check under your couch too
                                                                                                > --- Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > > DID you check in the filter?
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Nigel
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                > > wrote:
                                                                                                > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Anyone have any ideas where I can look for my
                                                                                                > > missing
                                                                                                > > Fiddler
                                                                                                > > Crab? My tank lid doesn't have any holes in it so he
                                                                                                > > can't have
                                                                                                > > escaped out of the tank. I've looked all over the
                                                                                                > > tank
                                                                                                > > and cannot
                                                                                                > > seem to find the little devil! I need to take him
                                                                                                > > out
                                                                                                > > so he can get
                                                                                                > > air. Of course the PetClub where I got him didn't
                                                                                                > > tell
                                                                                                > > me that
                                                                                                > > Fiddlers are not completely aquatic and in fact live
                                                                                                > > on marshes
                                                                                                > > rather than in the ocean. So I went home last night
                                                                                                > > with a little
                                                                                                > > bowl to put him in for awhile but now I cannot find
                                                                                                > > him. I'm afraid
                                                                                                > > he's dead somewhere =(
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                > > replying, thanks
                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                > > that
                                                                                                > > is not important to the reply and if changing the
                                                                                                > > topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                > > line
                                                                                                > > -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                > > Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
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                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9475 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Help! Missing Fiddler Crab!
                                                                                                yes, he wasn't in there either.

                                                                                                --- Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@...> wrote:

                                                                                                > DID you check in the filter?
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Nigel
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Anyone have any ideas where I can look for my missing
                                                                                                > Fiddler
                                                                                                > Crab? My tank lid doesn't have any holes in it so he
                                                                                                > can't have
                                                                                                > escaped out of the tank. I've looked all over the tank
                                                                                                > and cannot
                                                                                                > seem to find the little devil! I need to take him out
                                                                                                > so he can get
                                                                                                > air. Of course the PetClub where I got him didn't tell
                                                                                                > me that
                                                                                                > Fiddlers are not completely aquatic and in fact live
                                                                                                > on marshes
                                                                                                > rather than in the ocean. So I went home last night
                                                                                                > with a little
                                                                                                > bowl to put him in for awhile but now I cannot find
                                                                                                > him. I'm afraid
                                                                                                > he's dead somewhere =(
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                > replying, thanks
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                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9476 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: new to group/question about betas
                                                                                                yeah, he probably doesn't feel any aggression in such a large tank. what a spoiled betta =)

                                                                                                --- Amalthea <amalthea23@...> wrote:

                                                                                                > he really does love it, and it's strange that he doesn't seem to fight
                                                                                                > with anyone else who has flowing fins, might be the size of the tank
                                                                                                > though...
                                                                                                > amalthea
                                                                                                > Bored? Never Fear!
                                                                                                > http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
                                                                                                > On Mar 22, 2005, at 3:18 PM, Valeen Gonzalez wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > > ooooh, i bet your betta is in heaven in such a large tank! =)
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > --- Amalthea <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > > well, i tend to keep mine in my 55 gallon tank along with all my
                                                                                                > > other
                                                                                                > > > fish, so the temp is from 76-78 depending on the season (it tends
                                                                                                > > to be
                                                                                                > > > warmer in the winter in the tank from ambient heat in the room) when
                                                                                                > > > kept at 74-76, the aggression generally decreases, though i have had
                                                                                                > > > success keeping males and females together at higher temps. my tank
                                                                                                > > is
                                                                                                > > > planted though, which offers a lot of territories and hiding places
                                                                                                > > and
                                                                                                > > > that can greatly affect the outcome of a match as well.
                                                                                                > > > amalthea
                                                                                                >


                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9477 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                                Facts are facts, but some of yours are wrong. Try checking them before
                                                                                                you spout off.

                                                                                                Blood Parrots are typically not dyed and have not been mistreated in any
                                                                                                way. They are naturaly splotched orange and white and sometimes red.
                                                                                                Most sold are solid orange, but this is their natural coloration.

                                                                                                Jellybean Parrots are dyed for some of the colors (others are au natural),
                                                                                                but most have their protective coat stripped off. These fish are not
                                                                                                healthy and never will be. At a minimum, their growth is stunted and the
                                                                                                dye will fade in six months. At worst, they will die from the stress of
                                                                                                fighting off infections.

                                                                                                We are talking about Blood Parrots here which are a hybridization of two
                                                                                                fish that would not normally meet in the wild. As stated here by others,
                                                                                                it's not all that different from selectively breeding dogs to enhance
                                                                                                specific traits.

                                                                                                The spots on the fish are normal coloration changes in these particular
                                                                                                fish caused by environment or maturity. They are not exczema or cancer.

                                                                                                If you want to a more worthy cause, fight against "painted" or dyed fish.
                                                                                                These fish have been cruelly injected with dyes and are fighting off the
                                                                                                dye and supplemental infections from the needle punctures. No animal
                                                                                                should be tortured this way.


                                                                                                jazz said:
                                                                                                > Mine is not an attack on any body to make that clear
                                                                                                > facts are facts
                                                                                                > you can either believe them
                                                                                                > or do like the ostrich borrow your head in the sand and hear nor see
                                                                                                > anything.
                                                                                                > joseph
                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                > From: Amalthea
                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 9:04 AM
                                                                                                > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > we've already discussed the fact that some of us are fine owning any
                                                                                                > number of pets that "don't exist in nature." i don't think any level of
                                                                                                > attack is going to cause people to stop buying them. i've yet to see the
                                                                                                > pet store without fancy goldfish or bettas.
                                                                                                > as for the dye, they are NOT all dyed. yes, a great many are, but some
                                                                                                > are not. using sweeping generalities and fear tactics (your fish has
                                                                                                > cancer!) doesn't help anything.
                                                                                                > agree to disagree in this forum, we're never going to come to an
                                                                                                > agreement on the issue, nor should we have to.
                                                                                                > amalthea
                                                                                                > http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                > Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                                > On Mar 23, 2005, at 2:15 AM, jazz wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > First of all why the hell you are buying these fish?
                                                                                                > ok you might have bought them whitout knowing where they come from.
                                                                                                > do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?
                                                                                                > i assume not.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > These fish Parrots DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE they are genetically
                                                                                                > deformed on purpose so people will buy they looking also at their
                                                                                                > aspect.
                                                                                                > Secondly blood parrots are dyed ie injected with colour prior being
                                                                                                > sold.
                                                                                                > the black spot your fish is developing is an exzema or a type of fish
                                                                                                > cancer.
                                                                                                > recent study showed that half of the fish injected with coulor
                                                                                                > develepoed some form of sickness which lead to their death.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > i URGE EVERYBODY NOT TO BUY THESE FISH
                                                                                                > Joseph Azzopardi
                                                                                                > Malta
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9478 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
                                                                                                Hi Stacey, No need to worry, there is nothing wrong with keeping
                                                                                                some salt in your aquarium water, especially for mollies, provided
                                                                                                you don't add too much. The one tbls of salt per five gallons that
                                                                                                you originally put in is not too much; most plants and some species
                                                                                                of fish (like Cory catfish) do not like much more than that. The
                                                                                                only mistake you made was to use iodized table salt. As your fish
                                                                                                are still doing okay today, they should continue to be alright.
                                                                                                However, in the future, you want to avoid using salt with iodine and
                                                                                                anti-caking agents (silicon dioxide & tricalcium phosphate). Kosher
                                                                                                salt is perfectly fine and contrary to an earlier post, it DOES NOT
                                                                                                contain any anti-caking agents. This topic was covered about 6
                                                                                                months ago. Kosher salt, if left out in humid conditions, will cake
                                                                                                up badly -- proof positive that it contains no additives.
                                                                                                \
                                                                                                Adding and then removing 80% of that small amount of salt should not
                                                                                                stress your fish in the least. One tbls (3 tsp) per five gallons is
                                                                                                the same as 2/3 tsp per gallon. Many hobbyists use at least 2 tsp.
                                                                                                per gallon with certain disease treatments, and then sometimes 4 tsp
                                                                                                per gallon (or up to 6 tsp per gallon). Mollies can take 8 tsp per
                                                                                                gallon. This is all built up gradually using 2 tsp per gallon per
                                                                                                day. After the disease has been successfully treated, often 50%
                                                                                                water changes are used to get rid of the salt. Using only 2 tsp per
                                                                                                gallon, a 50% water change would result in removing 1 tsp of salt per
                                                                                                gallon (without fear of stress) -- far more than you removed at one
                                                                                                time. So, in that respect, you did nothing wrong with your 80% water
                                                                                                change. Just remember next time, use Kosher (or pickeling) salt.
                                                                                                Regards, Ray
                                                                                                \
                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@y...>
                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                > Okay~
                                                                                                > I am going to fullfill everyone's curiosity. The reason I added the
                                                                                                Salt is because I have Mollies and Guppies only in the tank. I was
                                                                                                reading that these fish need some salt. I am new at this hobby so I
                                                                                                am not offended of what is being said. I have already changed about
                                                                                                80% of the water. I guess you may consider me as the "DUMMY"for fish
                                                                                                hobby.(HA!HA!)
                                                                                                > Stacey
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9479 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
                                                                                                GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT people!

                                                                                                "GLOWLIGHT DANIOS" are fish descended from a few genetically alterd
                                                                                                Danios. The DNA code for phospherescence was transplanted from a marine
                                                                                                animal and is now part of the genetic code of these fish. The fish breed
                                                                                                true and are IDENTICAL in every way to normal Danios except for the
                                                                                                coloration of their bodies. They live just as long as natural Danios and
                                                                                                have no genetic disorders particular to their alteration. They breed
                                                                                                true, and have no problem interbreeding with regular danios (although the
                                                                                                coloration may or may not be present in the offspring).

                                                                                                These fish were developed for scientific study, not for curiosity. The
                                                                                                coloration makes it easier to see the effects of polutants on the fish.

                                                                                                Recently, the maker decided to sell them as curiosities to hobbyists. The
                                                                                                trademark name of the fish is GLOFISH. They are sterilized before sale -
                                                                                                mostly to control the supply of them (to maximize profit).

                                                                                                These fish are the only humanely "painted" fish. They lead normal lives,
                                                                                                they just are a different color from their wild brethren. If they were in
                                                                                                the wild, they would be at a genetic disadvantage, because their
                                                                                                phospherescence makes it easier for predators to see them. In an
                                                                                                aquarium, this is not an issue.

                                                                                                I heartily agree with your statements on painted fish, but Glofish are not
                                                                                                the same thing. Please stop spreading disinformation.

                                                                                                One more thing: Yes, we can play with nature and make things exactly as we
                                                                                                wish. We do it all the time. Only the methods have changed.

                                                                                                We have been hybridizing plants for millenia. Orville Reddinbocker's corn
                                                                                                actually does pop better than others because he (the old guy in the ads
                                                                                                who died a few years ago) spent decades hybridizing corn strains breeding
                                                                                                specific features.

                                                                                                We have been genetically altering wolves (by selective breeding) for
                                                                                                thousands of years. The resultant creatures are called dogs.

                                                                                                DNA manipulation is just a way to do more drastic and faster alterations.

                                                                                                When the day comes that your children can genetically alter their zygotes
                                                                                                to eliminate cancer succeptibility or the succeptibility to heart disease
                                                                                                in their future children, they will jump at the chance.



                                                                                                Nigel Chetcuti said:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Hi guys
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > look in my opinion the use of unnatural fish and dyed
                                                                                                > fish is not very nice for the fish itself that you dye
                                                                                                > a fish and make it purple colour or i dont know what
                                                                                                > the hell other colours isnt nice! Now they found a way
                                                                                                > to genetically modify and alter the coloration and if
                                                                                                > noone has ever seen them there are also GLOWLIGHT
                                                                                                > DANIOS they are genetically modified fish!They have a
                                                                                                > much shorter life and well i think that i dont like
                                                                                                > being one of them! we cannot play with nature and do
                                                                                                > fish as we like them to be.
                                                                                                > One last thing is this...what will all those people
                                                                                                > who just have an aquarium in the living room or there
                                                                                                > kinds and when they go a new fish for the first time
                                                                                                > choose a normal glass fish or a "modified" green
                                                                                                > highlighted colour glass fish or a purple albino red
                                                                                                > tail shark?
                                                                                                > well the newcomers to the hobby will go for the
                                                                                                > modified ones then they go home and after some few
                                                                                                > months they die or discolour and start hating the fish
                                                                                                > and goodbye fish and tank and everything with. This
                                                                                                > happened to some friends of mine so i am not
                                                                                                > inventing!
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Nigel
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9480 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
                                                                                                just a aisde note,
                                                                                                mostof the "painted tetras" in the hobby in california
                                                                                                are mixed fruit tetras. they are strawberries, blue
                                                                                                berries and apples. these fish are fed dyed foods at
                                                                                                hatching, the dye permeates the cells, and the fish
                                                                                                are unhardmed. the fish still live a normal life span
                                                                                                of several years, and retain some pigmant throughout
                                                                                                their life span. the pink become nearlyu white at
                                                                                                full growth, the blue and greens fade to lighter
                                                                                                colors, but they do not live any different. injected
                                                                                                fish have pretty much disappeared from the local
                                                                                                markets in the bay area of california. as to other
                                                                                                locations, i do not know and will not debate the
                                                                                                issue.
                                                                                                --- jazz <jazz001@...> wrote:

                                                                                                > Why it's cruel to dye
                                                                                                > Dr Stan MacMahon and Dr Peter Burgess explain the
                                                                                                > damage done to fish when
                                                                                                > they are barbarically injected with dye.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Some fishkeepers, and possibly even a few traders,
                                                                                                > may be puzzled as to why
                                                                                                > so much fuss has been made about dyed fish. On the
                                                                                                > face of it, the practice
                                                                                                > of dyeing or "painting" the fish seems fairly
                                                                                                > innocuous and the artificially
                                                                                                > dyed specimens are certainly very eye-catching in
                                                                                                > their various "day-glo"
                                                                                                > colours. So why push for a voluntary ban on selling
                                                                                                > them? Our investigations
                                                                                                > have revealed the truth behind the dyed fish saga.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Disco fish
                                                                                                > Our first encounter with dyed fish was back in the
                                                                                                > late 1980's. Thousands of
                                                                                                > artificially coloured glassfish, Parambassis ranga
                                                                                                > (formerly Chanda ranga)
                                                                                                > were imported into the UK.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > The glassfish, so named because of its naturally
                                                                                                > semi-transparent body,
                                                                                                > obviously makes it an ideal subject for "painting".
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > They were seen with fluorescent shades of either
                                                                                                > blue, purple, red, yellow,
                                                                                                > orange or green produced by dyes.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > They were (and still are) imported under the names
                                                                                                > "painted glassfish" or
                                                                                                > "disco fish" (presumably because their almost
                                                                                                > fluorescent colours resemble
                                                                                                > discotheque lights).
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > How is the dye applied?
                                                                                                > Intrigued as to how the dye was applied we decided
                                                                                                > to carry out a little
                                                                                                > research. A few coloured glassfish were sedated in
                                                                                                > MS222 anaesthetic and
                                                                                                > observed under a binocular microscope. It became
                                                                                                > apparent that the dye is
                                                                                                > not on the surface of the fish, but lay under the
                                                                                                > epidermis.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Furthermore, the dye appeared fluid and could be
                                                                                                > moved slightly by gently
                                                                                                > squeezing the coloured area.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > This suggested that it must have been injected into
                                                                                                > the fish at various
                                                                                                > sites over the body in order to form the distinctive
                                                                                                > colour patterns. Our
                                                                                                > fears were confirmed a few years later when we were
                                                                                                > shown photographs of the
                                                                                                > colouring process, revealing that each fish is
                                                                                                > individually injected using a
                                                                                                > syringe and needle.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > The practice of dye injection is undertaken by fish
                                                                                                > farmers in some regions
                                                                                                > of Asia (but not Singapore as far as we know).
                                                                                                > Clearly, the common name
                                                                                                > "painted glassfish" is a cruelly misleading
                                                                                                > description.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > If one considers the relative bore size of the
                                                                                                > injection needle with that of
                                                                                                > a glassfish, it would be the equivalent of us
                                                                                                > receiving several jabs using a
                                                                                                > needle of pencil-sized diameter - not a pleasant
                                                                                                > thought.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > As experienced fish scientists, we would never dream
                                                                                                > of injecting fish of
                                                                                                > such small size. No wonder the injection process is
                                                                                                > alleged to cause high
                                                                                                > mortalities.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Increasing the risk of disease...
                                                                                                > A survey which we carried out in the south of
                                                                                                > England revealed that over 40%
                                                                                                > of painted glassfish appeared to be suffering from
                                                                                                > lymphocystis virus. This
                                                                                                > disease manifests itself as a small whitish growths
                                                                                                > on the fish's body and
                                                                                                > fins.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > An examination of the white growths under the
                                                                                                > powerful electron microscope
                                                                                                > confirmed our diagnosis. In contrast, less than 10%
                                                                                                > of the natural
                                                                                                > (unpainted) glassfish had lymphocystis.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > It is possible that the injection process increases
                                                                                                > the risk of this
                                                                                                > disease, perhaps by transmitting the virus from fish
                                                                                                > to fish via the needle
                                                                                                > (the same needle is used to inject tens or even
                                                                                                > hundreds of fish).
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Alternatively, the stress of being injected with the
                                                                                                > dye may lower the fish'
                                                                                                > s natural immunity to lymphocystis. It must be said
                                                                                                > that, in our experience,
                                                                                                > those glassfish which survive the injection process
                                                                                                > go on to live fairly
                                                                                                > normal lives, despite the gaudy dyes present within
                                                                                                > their bodies. In time,
                                                                                                > the dye fades.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Moral issue
                                                                                                > Many people believe that fish do not feel pain and
                                                                                                > so injecting them with
                                                                                                > dyes is perfectly acceptable. In fact, increasing
                                                                                                > scientific evidence
                                                                                                > suggests that fish are indeed capable of feeling
                                                                                                > pain, though we have no way
                                                                                                > of telling whether they perceive painful events in
                                                                                                > the same way as we do.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > So dye injection is likely to be a painful
                                                                                                > experience for the poor
                                                                                                > glassfish. In fairness, many traders and hobbyists
                                                                                                > were mislead, just as we
                                                                                                > first were, into thinking that these fish were
                                                                                                > simply painted with the dye.
                                                                                                > Now that the truth is out, it's time to stop this
                                                                                                > cruel practice, once and
                                                                                                > for all.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Other species which are sometimes dyed
                                                                                                > Glassfish are not the only species which are
                                                                                                > subjected to artificial
                                                                                                > colouring.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Many types of albino fish also make ideal "white
                                                                                                > cavasses" for colouring. We
                                                                                                > have observed the following artificially coloured
                                                                                                > fish in the UK, and
                                                                                                > suspect there may be others.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Albino versions of Corydoras catfish, such as
                                                                                                > aeneus; Tiger barbs; Albino
                                                                                                > Epalzeorhynchus (formerly Labeo) such as the
                                                                                                > Red-finned shark; Black widow
                                                                                                > tetras; Rams and some Botia species.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Typically these exhibit red or blue on part of the
                                                                                                > body, but the dyes are
                                                                                                > not as bright or gaudy as those used to inject
                                                                                                > glassfish.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Fish which have pale or semi-transparent bodies such
                                                                                                > as the glassfish,
                                                                                                > Kryptoterus, also suffer.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Other fish on offer
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > One supplier in Thailand currently offers a very
                                                                                                > wide range of dyed fish on
                                                                                                > its online stock list which are clearly marked as
                                                                                                > being injected. Their
                                                                                                > stocklist is shown below.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Color Silver Shark
                                                                                                > Color Albino Rainbow Shark
                                                                                                > Color Albino Irridescent Shark
                                                                                                > Mixcolor Ompok
                                                                                                > Red Ompok
                                                                                                > Blue Ompok
                                                                                                > Green Ompok
                                                                                                > Yellow Ompok
                                                                                                > Orange Ompok
                                                                                                > Purple Ompok
                                                                                                > Pink Ompok
                                                                                                > Tinfoil Blushing-blue
                                                                                                > Tinfoil Blushing-red
                                                                                                > Tinfoil Blushing-green
                                                                                                > Tinfoil Blushing-pink
                                                                                                > Tinfoil Blushing-purple
                                                                                                > Tinfoil Assorted Color
                                                                                                > Color Tiger Barb
                                                                                                > Color Redtail Botia
                                                                                                > Blue Redtail Botia
                                                                                                > Red Redtail Botia
                                                                                                > Green Redtail Botia
                                                                                                > Yellow Redtail Botia
                                                                                                > Orange Redtail Botia
                                                                                                > Purple Redtail Botia
                                                                                                > Pink Redtail Botia
                                                                                                > Two Color Glass Fish
                                                                                                > Red Glass Fish
                                                                                                > Blue Glass Fish
                                                                                                > Green Glass Fish
                                                                                                > Yellow Glass Fish
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                === message truncated ===




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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9481 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                                additionally, CANCER is the number 1 killer of all
                                                                                                species on the planet.
                                                                                                --- Amalthea <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > we've already discussed the fact that some of us are
                                                                                                > fine owning any
                                                                                                > number of pets that "don't exist in nature." i don't
                                                                                                > think any level of
                                                                                                > attack is going to cause people to stop buying them.
                                                                                                > i've yet to see
                                                                                                > the pet store without fancy goldfish or bettas.
                                                                                                > as for the dye, they are NOT all dyed. yes, a great
                                                                                                > many are, but some
                                                                                                > are not. using sweeping generalities and fear
                                                                                                > tactics (your fish has
                                                                                                > cancer!) doesn't help anything.
                                                                                                > agree to disagree in this forum, we're never going
                                                                                                > to come to an
                                                                                                > agreement on the issue, nor should we have to.
                                                                                                > amalthea
                                                                                                > http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                > Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                                > On Mar 23, 2005, at 2:15 AM, jazz wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > > First of all why the hell you are buying these
                                                                                                > fish?
                                                                                                > > ok you might have bought them whitout knowing
                                                                                                > where they come from.
                                                                                                > > do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?
                                                                                                > > i assume not.
                                                                                                > > �
                                                                                                > > These fish� Parrots�DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE they
                                                                                                > are genetically
                                                                                                > > deformed on purpose so people will buy they
                                                                                                > looking also at their
                                                                                                > > aspect.
                                                                                                > > Secondly blood parrots are dyed ie injected with
                                                                                                > colour prior being
                                                                                                > > sold.
                                                                                                > > the black spot your fish is developing is an
                                                                                                > exzema or a type of fish
                                                                                                > > cancer.
                                                                                                > > recent study showed that half of the fish injected
                                                                                                > with coulor
                                                                                                > > develepoed some form of sickness which lead to
                                                                                                > their death.
                                                                                                > > �
                                                                                                > > i URGE EVERYBODY NOT TO BUY THESE FISH
                                                                                                > > Joseph Azzopardi
                                                                                                > > Malta
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                > when replying, thanks
                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                > that is not
                                                                                                > > important to the reply and if changing the topic
                                                                                                > of the original
                                                                                                > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new
                                                                                                > subject (was re: old
                                                                                                > > subject)" <-,� we Thank You in Advance for your
                                                                                                > help in this matter
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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9482 From: Setiawan Budi Suwandi Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: New member.
                                                                                                Hi guys,
                                                                                                I'm new in this group. My name is Setiawan from Bandung - West Java -
                                                                                                Indonesia.I'm breeder,raiser and trader for freshwatter fish.My
                                                                                                specialist in Bettas.
                                                                                                Now, I started to breed chiclid ( frontossa ).I still looking for
                                                                                                cheap forntosa blue.If anyone know where to buy near in my
                                                                                                country,please tell me.
                                                                                                Thank's and have a nice day.
                                                                                                Regards
                                                                                                Setiawan
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9483 From: diz4555 Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: help
                                                                                                I haven't had any aquariums for a long time, I spontaneously bought
                                                                                                a 1.5 gal tank recently, I stocked it with 3 guppies and 3 neons. It
                                                                                                was a undergravel filter. I lost a guppy right away. now it has been
                                                                                                3 weeks, I have been doing regular water changes and testing the
                                                                                                water. It looked like my tank was cycling, the nitrates/nitrites
                                                                                                peaked and I lost a neon, and my guppies were laying on their sides
                                                                                                on the bottom. I did an emergency water exchange and now the guppies
                                                                                                are swimming, but one stays under the heater and wont eat. I know
                                                                                                this tank is way too small (what was I thinking) Do you think the
                                                                                                bioload is just too big? I am going to look at tanks today. I am
                                                                                                thinking of buying a bigger one (how big?) or should I start
                                                                                                switching fish to another tank at this time? Big die off in my
                                                                                                future? help, any input would be appreciated, I fear I have created
                                                                                                a death tank.

                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9484 From: Amalthea Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
                                                                                                can you show me a study wherein they show that glowlights have a
                                                                                                "shorter lifespan" than their "natural" counterparts? i'd like to see
                                                                                                that.
                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
                                                                                                On Mar 23, 2005, at 8:04 AM, Nigel Chetcuti wrote:

                                                                                                > Hi guys
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > look in my opinion the use of unnatural fish and dyed
                                                                                                > fish is not very nice for the fish itself that you dye
                                                                                                > a fish and make it purple colour or i dont know what
                                                                                                > the hell other colours isnt nice! Now they found a way
                                                                                                > to genetically modify and alter the coloration and if
                                                                                                > noone has ever seen them there are also GLOWLIGHT
                                                                                                > DANIOS they are genetically modified fish!They have a
                                                                                                > much shorter life and well i think that i dont like
                                                                                                > being one of them!   we cannot play with nature and do
                                                                                                > fish as we like them to be.
                                                                                                > One last thing is this...what will all those people
                                                                                                > who just have an aquarium in the living room or there
                                                                                                > kinds and when they go a new fish for the first time
                                                                                                > choose a normal glass fish or a "modified" green
                                                                                                > highlighted colour glass fish or a purple albino red
                                                                                                > tail shark?
                                                                                                > well the newcomers to the hobby will go for the
                                                                                                > modified ones then they go home and after some few
                                                                                                > months they die or discolour and start hating the fish
                                                                                                > and goodbye fish and tank and everything with. This
                                                                                                > happened to some friends of mine so i am not
                                                                                                > inventing!
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Nigel
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Send instant messages to your online friends
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                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9485 From: Amalthea Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                                this is true, but wielding it as a scare tactic still doesn't win
                                                                                                arguments.
                                                                                                amatleha
                                                                                                http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                                On Mar 23, 2005, at 1:54 PM, paul helms wrote:

                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > additionally, CANCER is the number 1 killer of all
                                                                                                > species on the planet.
                                                                                                > --- Amalthea <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >> we've already discussed the fact that some of us are
                                                                                                >> fine owning any
                                                                                                >> number of pets that "don't exist in nature." i don't
                                                                                                >> think any level of
                                                                                                >> attack is going to cause people to stop buying them.
                                                                                                >> i've yet to see
                                                                                                >> the pet store without fancy goldfish or bettas.
                                                                                                >> as for the dye, they are NOT all dyed. yes, a great
                                                                                                >> many are, but some
                                                                                                >> are not. using sweeping generalities and fear
                                                                                                >> tactics (your fish has
                                                                                                >> cancer!) doesn't help anything.
                                                                                                >> agree to disagree in this forum, we're never going
                                                                                                >> to come to an
                                                                                                >> agreement on the issue, nor should we have to.
                                                                                                >> amalthea
                                                                                                >> http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                >> Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                                >> On Mar 23, 2005, at 2:15 AM, jazz wrote:
                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                >>> First of all why the hell you are buying these
                                                                                                >> fish?
                                                                                                >>> ok you might have bought them whitout knowing
                                                                                                >> where they come from.
                                                                                                >>> do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?
                                                                                                >>> i assume not.
                                                                                                >>>  
                                                                                                >>> These fish  Parrots DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE they
                                                                                                >> are genetically
                                                                                                >>> deformed on purpose so people will buy they
                                                                                                >> looking also at their
                                                                                                >>> aspect.
                                                                                                >>> Secondly blood parrots are dyed ie injected with
                                                                                                >> colour prior being
                                                                                                >>> sold.
                                                                                                >>> the black spot your fish is developing is an
                                                                                                >> exzema or a type of fish
                                                                                                >>> cancer.
                                                                                                >>> recent study showed that half of the fish injected
                                                                                                >> with coulor
                                                                                                >>> develepoed some form of sickness which lead to
                                                                                                >> their death.
                                                                                                >>>  
                                                                                                >>> i URGE EVERYBODY NOT TO BUY THESE FISH
                                                                                                >>> Joseph Azzopardi
                                                                                                >>> Malta
                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                >>> Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                >> when replying, thanks
                                                                                                >>> .
                                                                                                >>> Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                >> that is not
                                                                                                >>> important to the reply and if changing the topic
                                                                                                >> of the original
                                                                                                >>> message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new
                                                                                                >> subject (was re: old
                                                                                                >>> subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your
                                                                                                >> help in this matter
                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                >>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                                                                                >>>  
                                                                                                >>> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                                                                                                >> to:
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                                                                                                >> Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                >>> Service.
                                                                                                >>>
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                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9486 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
                                                                                                I believe some members of this group really need to watch the tone of their emails and be careful about talking down to other members for lack of same opinions.. This group by far has more drama and more overheated opinionated members that need to really relax... everyone is allowed to have their opinions and post and shouldn't have to fear a nasty rebuttal from anyone...soon what will be created in ppl scared to post.. I know cause I have often felt this way.. bullying shouldn't not be accepted in any manor... Its really sad cause there are so many good ppl here but they all get overshadowed by a few... Shannon
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9487 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
                                                                                                no your not a dummy at all.. plus I told you to do that I just figured the fish were not happy... but just look at it this way you prolly can get away with out doing a water change for a few weeks now lol.. and your right they need some salt.. I have heard of ppl being able to wean them off of salt over a long period of time... but that is another reason why I keep salt in my tank cause when I get room I want to add some mollies as well... keep your head up your fine.. Shannon
                                                                                                Okay~
                                                                                                I am going to fullfill everyone's curiosity. The reason I added the Salt is because I have Mollies and Guppies only in the tank. I was reading that these fish need some salt. I am new at this hobby so I am not offended of what is being said. I have already changed about 80% of the water. I guess you may consider me as the "DUMMY"for fish hobby.(HA!HA!)
                                                                                                Stacey 
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9488 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
                                                                                                i'm in the bay area, too, and sometimes still see dyed glassfish and those spotted-red pink
                                                                                                kissing gouramis i think they're called, but that's it i think. how many other kinds of dyed fish
                                                                                                were there? i'm not knowledgeable in that area but know of just those 2.

                                                                                                --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                > just a aisde note,
                                                                                                > mostof the "painted tetras" in the hobby in california
                                                                                                > are mixed fruit tetras. they are strawberries, blue
                                                                                                > berries and apples. these fish are fed dyed foods at
                                                                                                > hatching, the dye permeates the cells, and the fish
                                                                                                > are unhardmed. the fish still live a normal life span
                                                                                                > of several years, and retain some pigmant throughout
                                                                                                > their life span. the pink become nearlyu white at
                                                                                                > full growth, the blue and greens fade to lighter
                                                                                                > colors, but they do not live any different. injected
                                                                                                > fish have pretty much disappeared from the local
                                                                                                > markets in the bay area of california. as to other
                                                                                                > locations, i do not know and will not debate the
                                                                                                > issue.
                                                                                                > --- jazz <jazz001@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > > Why it's cruel to dye
                                                                                                > > Dr Stan MacMahon and Dr Peter Burgess explain the
                                                                                                > > damage done to fish when
                                                                                                > > they are barbarically injected with dye.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Some fishkeepers, and possibly even a few traders,
                                                                                                > > may be puzzled as to why
                                                                                                > > so much fuss has been made about dyed fish. On the
                                                                                                > > face of it, the practice
                                                                                                > > of dyeing or "painting" the fish seems fairly
                                                                                                > > innocuous and the artificially
                                                                                                > > dyed specimens are certainly very eye-catching in
                                                                                                > > their various "day-glo"
                                                                                                > > colours. So why push for a voluntary ban on selling
                                                                                                > > them? Our investigations
                                                                                                > > have revealed the truth behind the dyed fish saga.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Disco fish
                                                                                                > > Our first encounter with dyed fish was back in the
                                                                                                > > late 1980's. Thousands of
                                                                                                > > artificially coloured glassfish, Parambassis ranga
                                                                                                > > (formerly Chanda ranga)
                                                                                                > > were imported into the UK.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > The glassfish, so named because of its naturally
                                                                                                > > semi-transparent body,
                                                                                                > > obviously makes it an ideal subject for "painting".
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > They were seen with fluorescent shades of either
                                                                                                > > blue, purple, red, yellow,
                                                                                                > > orange or green produced by dyes.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > They were (and still are) imported under the names
                                                                                                > > "painted glassfish" or
                                                                                                > > "disco fish" (presumably because their almost
                                                                                                > > fluorescent colours resemble
                                                                                                > > discotheque lights).
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > How is the dye applied?
                                                                                                > > Intrigued as to how the dye was applied we decided
                                                                                                > > to carry out a little
                                                                                                > > research. A few coloured glassfish were sedated in
                                                                                                > > MS222 anaesthetic and
                                                                                                > > observed under a binocular microscope. It became
                                                                                                > > apparent that the dye is
                                                                                                > > not on the surface of the fish, but lay under the
                                                                                                > > epidermis.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Furthermore, the dye appeared fluid and could be
                                                                                                > > moved slightly by gently
                                                                                                > > squeezing the coloured area.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > This suggested that it must have been injected into
                                                                                                > > the fish at various
                                                                                                > > sites over the body in order to form the distinctive
                                                                                                > > colour patterns. Our
                                                                                                > > fears were confirmed a few years later when we were
                                                                                                > > shown photographs of the
                                                                                                > > colouring process, revealing that each fish is
                                                                                                > > individually injected using a
                                                                                                > > syringe and needle.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > The practice of dye injection is undertaken by fish
                                                                                                > > farmers in some regions
                                                                                                > > of Asia (but not Singapore as far as we know).
                                                                                                > > Clearly, the common name
                                                                                                > > "painted glassfish" is a cruelly misleading
                                                                                                > > description.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > If one considers the relative bore size of the
                                                                                                > > injection needle with that of
                                                                                                > > a glassfish, it would be the equivalent of us
                                                                                                > > receiving several jabs using a
                                                                                                > > needle of pencil-sized diameter - not a pleasant
                                                                                                > > thought.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > As experienced fish scientists, we would never dream
                                                                                                > > of injecting fish of
                                                                                                > > such small size. No wonder the injection process is
                                                                                                > > alleged to cause high
                                                                                                > > mortalities.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Increasing the risk of disease...
                                                                                                > > A survey which we carried out in the south of
                                                                                                > > England revealed that over 40%
                                                                                                > > of painted glassfish appeared to be suffering from
                                                                                                > > lymphocystis virus. This
                                                                                                > > disease manifests itself as a small whitish growths
                                                                                                > > on the fish's body and
                                                                                                > > fins.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > An examination of the white growths under the
                                                                                                > > powerful electron microscope
                                                                                                > > confirmed our diagnosis. In contrast, less than 10%
                                                                                                > > of the natural
                                                                                                > > (unpainted) glassfish had lymphocystis.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > It is possible that the injection process increases
                                                                                                > > the risk of this
                                                                                                > > disease, perhaps by transmitting the virus from fish
                                                                                                > > to fish via the needle
                                                                                                > > (the same needle is used to inject tens or even
                                                                                                > > hundreds of fish).
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Alternatively, the stress of being injected with the
                                                                                                > > dye may lower the fish'
                                                                                                > > s natural immunity to lymphocystis. It must be said
                                                                                                > > that, in our experience,
                                                                                                > > those glassfish which survive the injection process
                                                                                                > > go on to live fairly
                                                                                                > > normal lives, despite the gaudy dyes present within
                                                                                                > > their bodies. In time,
                                                                                                > > the dye fades.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Moral issue
                                                                                                > > Many people believe that fish do not feel pain and
                                                                                                > > so injecting them with
                                                                                                > > dyes is perfectly acceptable. In fact, increasing
                                                                                                > > scientific evidence
                                                                                                > > suggests that fish are indeed capable of feeling
                                                                                                > > pain, though we have no way
                                                                                                > > of telling whether they perceive painful events in
                                                                                                > > the same way as we do.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > So dye injection is likely to be a painful
                                                                                                > > experience for the poor
                                                                                                > > glassfish. In fairness, many traders and hobbyists
                                                                                                > > were mislead, just as we
                                                                                                > > first were, into thinking that these fish were
                                                                                                > > simply painted with the dye.
                                                                                                > > Now that the truth is out, it's time to stop this
                                                                                                > > cruel practice, once and
                                                                                                > > for all.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Other species which are sometimes dyed
                                                                                                > > Glassfish are not the only species which are
                                                                                                > > subjected to artificial
                                                                                                > > colouring.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Many types of albino fish also make ideal "white
                                                                                                > > cavasses" for colouring. We
                                                                                                > > have observed the following artificially coloured
                                                                                                > > fish in the UK, and
                                                                                                > > suspect there may be others.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Albino versions of Corydoras catfish, such as
                                                                                                > > aeneus; Tiger barbs; Albino
                                                                                                > > Epalzeorhynchus (formerly Labeo) such as the
                                                                                                > > Red-finned shark; Black widow
                                                                                                > > tetras; Rams and some Botia species.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Typically these exhibit red or blue on part of the
                                                                                                > > body, but the dyes are
                                                                                                > > not as bright or gaudy as those used to inject
                                                                                                > > glassfish.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Fish which have pale or semi-transparent bodies such
                                                                                                > > as the glassfish,
                                                                                                > > Kryptoterus, also suffer.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Other fish on offer
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > One supplier in Thailand currently offers a very
                                                                                                > > wide range of dyed fish on
                                                                                                > > its online stock list which are clearly marked as
                                                                                                > > being injected. Their
                                                                                                > > stocklist is shown below.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Color Silver Shark
                                                                                                > > Color Albino Rainbow Shark
                                                                                                > > Color Albino Irridescent Shark
                                                                                                > > Mixcolor Ompok
                                                                                                > > Red Ompok
                                                                                                > > Blue Ompok
                                                                                                > > Green Ompok
                                                                                                > > Yellow Ompok
                                                                                                > > Orange Ompok
                                                                                                > > Purple Ompok
                                                                                                > > Pink Ompok
                                                                                                > > Tinfoil Blushing-blue
                                                                                                > > Tinfoil Blushing-red
                                                                                                > > Tinfoil Blushing-green
                                                                                                > > Tinfoil Blushing-pink
                                                                                                > > Tinfoil Blushing-purple
                                                                                                > > Tinfoil Assorted Color
                                                                                                > > Color Tiger Barb
                                                                                                > > Color Redtail Botia
                                                                                                > > Blue Redtail Botia
                                                                                                > > Red Redtail Botia
                                                                                                > > Green Redtail Botia
                                                                                                > > Yellow Redtail Botia
                                                                                                > > Orange Redtail Botia
                                                                                                > > Purple Redtail Botia
                                                                                                > > Pink Redtail Botia
                                                                                                > > Two Color Glass Fish
                                                                                                > > Red Glass Fish
                                                                                                > > Blue Glass Fish
                                                                                                > > Green Glass Fish
                                                                                                > > Yellow Glass Fish
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > === message truncated ===
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9489 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                I am going to fullfill everyone's curiosity. The reason I added the Salt is because I have Mollies and Guppies only in the tank. I was reading that these fish need some salt. I am new at this hobby so I am not offended of what is being said. I have already changed about 80% of the water. I guess you may consider me as the "DUMMY"for fish hobby.(HA!HA!)
                                                                                                Nothing dumb about it, you made an innocent mistake and learned from it! =) Mollies love salt and gups do as well.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                When I first got into fish, I jumped right in without doing research; started reading about them with fishies merrily swimming around their new home right next to me. Realized my error, nursed the entire lot through a fish cycle and learned lots fast. I banged my head against several large objects those first few tense weeks since, in point of fact, I knew better -- I insist people interested in other pets do research first all the time as I have been involved with critter/breed rescue for over 20 years! Go figure.... %-]
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                All my hopes,
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                Vicky
                                                                                                Seleya Flatcoated Retrievers
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9490 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
                                                                                                or you can use aquarium salt if you happen to have any. it's readily available at lfs and pet
                                                                                                stores. but not everyone has it if they do not use it for sw tanks and/or treating for fin damage,
                                                                                                etc.

                                                                                                i use i think it's called instant ocean salt to salt dip my male bettas after their unfortunate
                                                                                                fight and of course for my sw tank.

                                                                                                have a great day,
                                                                                                valeen

                                                                                                --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:

                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Hi Stacey, No need to worry, there is nothing wrong with keeping
                                                                                                > some salt in your aquarium water, especially for mollies, provided
                                                                                                > you don't add too much. The one tbls of salt per five gallons that
                                                                                                > you originally put in is not too much; most plants and some species
                                                                                                > of fish (like Cory catfish) do not like much more than that. The
                                                                                                > only mistake you made was to use iodized table salt. As your fish
                                                                                                > are still doing okay today, they should continue to be alright.
                                                                                                > However, in the future, you want to avoid using salt with iodine and
                                                                                                > anti-caking agents (silicon dioxide & tricalcium phosphate). Kosher
                                                                                                > salt is perfectly fine and contrary to an earlier post, it DOES NOT
                                                                                                > contain any anti-caking agents. This topic was covered about 6
                                                                                                > months ago. Kosher salt, if left out in humid conditions, will cake
                                                                                                > up badly -- proof positive that it contains no additives.
                                                                                                > \
                                                                                                > Adding and then removing 80% of that small amount of salt should not
                                                                                                > stress your fish in the least. One tbls (3 tsp) per five gallons is
                                                                                                > the same as 2/3 tsp per gallon. Many hobbyists use at least 2 tsp.
                                                                                                > per gallon with certain disease treatments, and then sometimes 4 tsp
                                                                                                > per gallon (or up to 6 tsp per gallon). Mollies can take 8 tsp per
                                                                                                > gallon. This is all built up gradually using 2 tsp per gallon per
                                                                                                > day. After the disease has been successfully treated, often 50%
                                                                                                > water changes are used to get rid of the salt. Using only 2 tsp per
                                                                                                > gallon, a 50% water change would result in removing 1 tsp of salt per
                                                                                                > gallon (without fear of stress) -- far more than you removed at one
                                                                                                > time. So, in that respect, you did nothing wrong with your 80% water
                                                                                                > change. Just remember next time, use Kosher (or pickeling) salt.
                                                                                                > Regards, Ray
                                                                                                > \
                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@y...>
                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                > > Okay~
                                                                                                > > I am going to fullfill everyone's curiosity. The reason I added the
                                                                                                > Salt is because I have Mollies and Guppies only in the tank. I was
                                                                                                > reading that these fish need some salt. I am new at this hobby so I
                                                                                                > am not offended of what is being said. I have already changed about
                                                                                                > 80% of the water. I guess you may consider me as the "DUMMY"for fish
                                                                                                > hobby.(HA!HA!)
                                                                                                > > Stacey
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                > > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >


                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9491 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: ~ JAZ

                                                                                                I have no problem in saying that you’re a jerk.

                                                                                                I didn’t BUY these fish you braniac.  I RESCUED them from someone who bought them then was letting them die in freezing water with no filtration or oxygen.

                                                                                                So shut your fly hole.

                                                                                                And NO I don’t ready FISH magazines.  I am not a fish HOBBYIST so I came to this group for help, not insults. 

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                From: jazz [mailto:jazz001@...]
                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 1:16 AM
                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                First of all why the hell you are buying these fish?

                                                                                                ok you might have bought them whitout knowing where they come from.

                                                                                                do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?

                                                                                                i assume not.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                These fish  Parrots DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE they are genetically deformed on purpose so people will buy they looking also at their aspect.

                                                                                                Secondly blood parrots are dyed ie injected with colour prior being sold.

                                                                                                the black spot your fish is developing is an exzema or a type of fish cancer.

                                                                                                recent study showed that half of the fish injected with coulor develepoed some form of sickness which lead to their death.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                i URGE EVERYBODY NOT TO BUY THESE FISH

                                                                                                Joseph Azzopardi

                                                                                                Malta



                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9492 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: help
                                                                                                oh, i think a 1.5g is way too small for that many fish. 1.5's are best for 1 betta possibly,
                                                                                                although bigger is always better for most fish.

                                                                                                and also, most tetras like neons do best in groups of 6 or more so they can 'school'.

                                                                                                i would try maybe a 6 gallon if you have room.

                                                                                                i don't know much about ug filters so i can't comment on them, sorry.

                                                                                                --- diz4555 <diz4555@...> wrote:

                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > I haven't had any aquariums for a long time, I spontaneously bought
                                                                                                > a 1.5 gal tank recently, I stocked it with 3 guppies and 3 neons. It
                                                                                                > was a undergravel filter. I lost a guppy right away. now it has been
                                                                                                > 3 weeks, I have been doing regular water changes and testing the
                                                                                                > water. It looked like my tank was cycling, the nitrates/nitrites
                                                                                                > peaked and I lost a neon, and my guppies were laying on their sides
                                                                                                > on the bottom. I did an emergency water exchange and now the guppies
                                                                                                > are swimming, but one stays under the heater and wont eat. I know
                                                                                                > this tank is way too small (what was I thinking) Do you think the
                                                                                                > bioload is just too big? I am going to look at tanks today. I am
                                                                                                > thinking of buying a bigger one (how big?) or should I start
                                                                                                > switching fish to another tank at this time? Big die off in my
                                                                                                > future? help, any input would be appreciated, I fear I have created
                                                                                                > a death tank.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > thanks
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >


                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9493 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
                                                                                                Ray I missed you your so thorough and nice when offering help... lordy knows you helped me numerous times.. nice to hear from you again.. Shannon


                                                                                                Hi Stacey,  No need to worry, there is nothing wrong with keeping
                                                                                                some salt in your aquarium water, especially for mollies, provided
                                                                                                you don't add too much.  The one tbls of salt per five gallons that
                                                                                                you originally put in is not too much; most plants and some species
                                                                                                of fish (like Cory catfish) do not like much more than that.   The
                                                                                                only mistake you made was to use iodized table salt.  As your fish
                                                                                                are still doing okay today, they should continue to be alright. 
                                                                                                However, in the future, you want to avoid using salt with iodine and
                                                                                                anti-caking agents (silicon dioxide & tricalcium phosphate).  Kosher
                                                                                                salt is perfectly fine and contrary to an earlier post, it DOES NOT
                                                                                                contain any anti-caking agents.  This topic was covered about 6
                                                                                                months ago.  Kosher salt, if left out in humid conditions, will cake
                                                                                                up badly -- proof positive that it contains no additives.          
                                                                                                \                                                                    
                                                                                                Adding and then removing 80% of that small amount of salt should not
                                                                                                stress your fish in the least.  One tbls (3 tsp) per five gallons is
                                                                                                the same as 2/3 tsp per  gallon.  Many hobbyists use at least 2 tsp.
                                                                                                per gallon with certain disease treatments, and then sometimes 4 tsp
                                                                                                per gallon (or up to 6 tsp per gallon).  Mollies can take 8 tsp per
                                                                                                gallon.  This is all built up gradually using 2 tsp per gallon per
                                                                                                day.  After the disease has been successfully treated, often 50%
                                                                                                water changes are used to get rid of the salt.  Using only 2 tsp per
                                                                                                gallon, a 50% water change would result in removing 1 tsp of salt per
                                                                                                gallon (without fear of stress) -- far more than you removed at one
                                                                                                time.  So, in that respect, you did nothing wrong with your 80% water
                                                                                                change.  Just remember next time, use Kosher (or pickeling) salt. 
                                                                                                Regards,  Ray         
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9494 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: tank
                                                                                                paul, how much $ are you charging, where in ca are you and how long, etc. is the tank?

                                                                                                thanks,
                                                                                                valeen

                                                                                                --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                > anyone in ca interested in a 180 gallon tank with dual
                                                                                                > overflows?
                                                                                                > paul
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > __________________________________
                                                                                                > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                                > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                >


                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9495 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Salt & Iodine

                                                                                                Well,

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Since this topic is so hot, I would like to add some of my views without creating any rift.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                I find salt to be a good stress relief agent but only when it is used occasionally. If salt is used all the time in a tank, it loses its effect as a stress relief. The purpose is basically to create a different osmoregulatory flow of fluids between the water and the fish body along with creating a slight hostile environment for many pathogens that are endemic to fresh water. Beyond this, salt has no benefits.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Mollies, Guppies and other livebearers can tolerate high concentrations of salt and especially mollies can live all the time in freshwater with a basic amount of salt.. but, what is salt? Salt = Sodium Chloride that exists as pure ionic form in water as Sodium cations and Chloride anions. They almost always exist in all water bodies except RO / Distilled water. Concentrations ofcourse vary and that is what makes a difference. IMO there is no pure freshwater.  Mollies can tolerate high amounts of salt concentrations, almost to the levels of Marine but it does not mean they are marine. They can very well live in freshwater as well without ill effects but yes, they may do better with a bit of higher concentration of sodium chloride.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Iodine: Iodine was initially a part of if anti-caking agents used in salt but the quantities in table salt are too low to have any major effects.. but long term this is not recommended for the same reason as that the salt does not evaporate from the water. I don’t know what ill effects of Iodine are there or if it has any ill effects or not but it is not something that can really trigger a panic. I must have missed or ignored the previous thread that Shannon was talking about but I try not to argue with people J a lot.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Lastly, this post is just my view and is not directed against anyone so please accept in good faith. Logical criticism is welcome J

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9496 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -

                                                                                                Strange, I did not get Ray’s post either :-s

                                                                                                 


                                                                                                From: agentscullyeyore@... [mailto:agentscullyeyore@...]
                                                                                                Sent: 23 March 2005 21:08
                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: curosity of Why I -

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Ray I missed you your so thorough and nice when offering help... lordy knows you helped me numerous times.. nice to hear from you again.. Shannon



                                                                                                Hi Stacey,  No need to worry, there is nothing wrong with keeping
                                                                                                some salt in your aquarium water, especially for mollies, provided
                                                                                                you don't add too much.  The one tbls of salt per five gallons that
                                                                                                you originally put in is not too much; most plants and some species
                                                                                                of fish (like Cory catfish) do not like much more than that.   The
                                                                                                only mistake you made was to use iodized table salt.  As your fish
                                                                                                are still doing okay today, they should continue to be alright. 
                                                                                                However, in the future, you want to avoid using salt with iodine and
                                                                                                anti-caking agents (silicon dioxide & tricalcium phosphate).  Kosher
                                                                                                salt is perfectly fine and contrary to an earlier post, it DOES NOT
                                                                                                contain any anti-caking agents.  This topic was covered about 6
                                                                                                months ago.  Kosher salt, if left out in humid conditions, will cake
                                                                                                up badly -- proof positive that it contains no additives.          
                                                                                                \                                                                    
                                                                                                Adding and then removing 80% of that small amount of salt should not
                                                                                                stress your fish in the least.  One tbls (3 tsp) per five gallons is
                                                                                                the same as 2/3 tsp per  gallon.  Many hobbyists use at least 2 tsp.
                                                                                                per gallon with certain disease treatments, and then sometimes 4 tsp
                                                                                                per gallon (or up to 6 tsp per gallon).  Mollies can take 8 tsp per
                                                                                                gallon.  This is all built up gradually using 2 tsp per gallon per
                                                                                                day.  After the disease has been successfully treated, often 50%
                                                                                                water changes are used to get rid of the salt.  Using only 2 tsp per
                                                                                                gallon, a 50% water change would result in removing 1 tsp of salt per
                                                                                                gallon (without fear of stress) -- far more than you removed at one
                                                                                                time.  So, in that respect, you did nothing wrong with your 80% water
                                                                                                change.  Just remember next time, use Kosher (or pickeling) salt. 
                                                                                                Regards,  Ray         

                                                                                                 



                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                .
                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9497 From: vzepga5w@verizon.net Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Salt & Iodine
                                                                                                Iodine has been focused as a target antiseptic that has the potential to poison. It's been suggested or recommended to discontinue it's use an an antiseptic. Nimishs' information reiterating the fact that salt does not evaporate from water should raise alarm as to whether or not salt containing Iodine would be part of a gradual increase to the point of being lethal. I don't know if fish need Iodine for normal thyroid/growth relationships, and I don't know when too much is too much in this situation.
                                                                                                Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                From: Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...>
                                                                                                Date: Wed Mar 23 15:12:12 CST 2005
                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Salt & Iodine


                                                                                                Well,



                                                                                                Since this topic is so hot, I would like to add someof my views without creating any rift.



                                                                                                I find salt to be a good stress relief agent but onlywhen it is used occasionally. If salt is used all the time in a tank, it losesits effect as a stress relief. The purpose is basically to create a differentosmoregulatory flow of fluids between the water and the fish body along withcreating a slight hostile environment for many pathogens that are endemic tofresh water. Beyond this, salt has no benefits.



                                                                                                Mollies, Guppies and other livebearers can toleratehigh concentrations of salt and especially mollies can live all the time in freshwaterwith a basic amount of salt.. but, what is salt? Salt = Sodium Chloride thatexists as pure ionic form in water as Sodium cations and Chloride anions. Theyalmost always exist in all water bodies except RO / Distilled water.Concentrations ofcourse vary and that is what makes a difference. IMO there isno pure freshwater. Mollies can tolerate high amounts of saltconcentrations, almost to the levels of Marine but it does not mean they are marine.They can very well live in freshwater as well without ill effects but yes, theymay do better with a bit of higher concentration of sodium chloride.



                                                                                                Iodine: Iodine was initially a part of if anti-cakingagents used in salt but the quantities in table salt are too low to have anymajor effects.. but long term this is not recommended for the same reason asthat the salt does not evaporate from the water. I don’t know what illeffects of Iodine are there or if it has any ill effects or not but it is notsomething that can really trigger a panic. I must have missed or ignored theprevious thread that Shannon was talking aboutbut I try not to argue with people Ja lot.



                                                                                                Lastly, this post is just my view and is not directedagainst anyone so please accept in good faith. Logical criticism is welcome J



                                                                                                Nim




                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                .
                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9498 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Salt & Iodine

                                                                                                Well I know my poor fish are high stress right now.  Would salt help?  I have 3 giant danios, 2 black skirts, 1 firemouth, 2 BLOOD PARROTS, a little red tetra of some kind, a catfish and a dirty pleco.  Would they benefit from salt?  And how much to a 55 gal?

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                From: Nimish Mathur [mailto:nimmat4@...]
                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 3:12 PM
                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Salt & Iodine

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Well,

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Since this topic is so hot, I would like to add some of my views without creating any rift.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                I find salt to be a good stress relief agent but only when it is used occasionally. If salt is used all the time in a tank, it loses its effect as a stress relief. The purpose is basically to create a different osmoregulatory flow of fluids between the water and the fish body along with creating a slight hostile environment for many pathogens that are endemic to fresh water. Beyond this, salt has no benefits.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Mollies, Guppies and other livebearers can tolerate high concentrations of salt and especially mollies can live all the time in freshwater with a basic amount of salt.. but, what is salt? Salt = Sodium Chloride that exists as pure ionic form in water as Sodium cations and Chloride anions. They almost always exist in all water bodies except RO / Distilled water. Concentrations ofcourse vary and that is what makes a difference. IMO there is no pure freshwater.  Mollies can tolerate high amounts of salt concentrations, almost to the levels of Marine but it does not mean they are marine. They can very well live in freshwater as well without ill effects but yes, they may do better with a bit of higher concentration of sodium chloride.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Iodine: Iodine was initially a part of if anti-caking agents used in salt but the quantities in table salt are too low to have any major effects.. but long term this is not recommended for the same reason as that the salt does not evaporate from the water. I don’t know what ill effects of Iodine are there or if it has any ill effects or not but it is not something that can really trigger a panic. I must have missed or ignored the previous thread that Shannon was talking about but I try not to argue with people J a lot.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Lastly, this post is just my view and is not directed against anyone so please accept in good faith. Logical criticism is welcome J

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                 



                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                .
                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9499 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: ~ JAZ

                                                                                                Chill guys, no need to be arrogant for any reason. There are a lot of people who don’t know what Parrots are and accidently buy them. Besids, PFK is not available to everyone in the world and there are many people who know what parrots are but still buy them. Its everyone’s personal choice but yes, I myself also do discourage their purchase but for the reason of preventing any such further experiments. Dyed fish are in reality different from Blood parrots as parrots are a hybrid and sometimes they are artificially coloured like other fish called as “Dyed fish”.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                If some one has bought them without the knowledge of what they are, its not really their fault. We are all victims of Impulse buying and many times do buy fish that we have not researched on. 15 yrs of my hobby, and I still can sometimes be lured by some vivid colours.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Our purpose should be to spread the knowledge and not make the people who have done a mistake feel guilty.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                 


                                                                                                From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@...]
                                                                                                Sent: 23 March 2005 21:03
                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]~ JAZ

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                I have no problem in saying that you’re a jerk.

                                                                                                I didn’t BUY these fish you braniac.  I RESCUED them from someone who bought them then was letting them die in freezing water with no filtration or oxygen.

                                                                                                So shut your fly hole.

                                                                                                And NO I don’t ready FISH magazines.  I am not a fish HOBBYIST so I came to this group for help, not insults. 

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                From: jazz [mailto:jazz001@...]
                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 1:16 AM
                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                First of all why the hell you are buying these fish?

                                                                                                ok you might have bought them whitout knowing where they come from.

                                                                                                do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?

                                                                                                i assume not.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                These fish  Parrots DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE they are genetically deformed on purpose so people will buy they looking also at their aspect.

                                                                                                Secondly blood parrots are dyed ie injected with colour prior being sold.

                                                                                                the black spot your fish is developing is an exzema or a type of fish cancer.

                                                                                                recent study showed that half of the fish injected with coulor develepoed some form of sickness which lead to their death.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                i URGE EVERYBODY NOT TO BUY THESE FISH

                                                                                                Joseph Azzopardi

                                                                                                Malta



                                                                                                 



                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                .
                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9500 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Salt & Iodine

                                                                                                Catfish and plecs may not like salt but IME are fine with it. 1 table spoon of salt per gallon would be a maximum I would treat an entire tank. But once things are fine, stop adding salt and let it be reduced by water changes.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                 


                                                                                                From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@...]
                                                                                                Sent: 23 March 2005 21:25
                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Salt & Iodine

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Well I know my poor fish are high stress right now.  Would salt help?  I have 3 giant danios, 2 black skirts, 1 firemouth, 2 BLOOD PARROTS, a little red tetra of some kind, a catfish and a dirty pleco.  Would they benefit from salt?  And how much to a 55 gal?

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                From: Nimish Mathur [mailto:nimmat4@...]
                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 3:12 PM
                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Salt & Iodine

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Well,

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Since this topic is so hot, I would like to add some of my views without creating any rift.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                I find salt to be a good stress relief agent but only when it is used occasionally. If salt is used all the time in a tank, it loses its effect as a stress relief. The purpose is basically to create a different osmoregulatory flow of fluids between the water and the fish body along with creating a slight hostile environment for many pathogens that are endemic to fresh water. Beyond this, salt has no benefits.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Mollies, Guppies and other livebearers can tolerate high concentrations of salt and especially mollies can live all the time in freshwater with a basic amount of salt.. but, what is salt? Salt = Sodium Chloride that exists as pure ionic form in water as Sodium cations and Chloride anions. They almost always exist in all water bodies except RO / Distilled water. Concentrations ofcourse vary and that is what makes a difference. IMO there is no pure freshwater.  Mollies can tolerate high amounts of salt concentrations, almost to the levels of Marine but it does not mean they are marine. They can very well live in freshwater as well without ill effects but yes, they may do better with a bit of higher concentration of sodium chloride.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Iodine: Iodine was initially a part of if anti-caking agents used in salt but the quantities in table salt are too low to have any major effects.. but long term this is not recommended for the same reason as that the salt does not evaporate from the water. I don’t know what ill effects of Iodine are there or if it has any ill effects or not but it is not something that can really trigger a panic. I must have missed or ignored the previous thread that Shannon was talking about but I try not to argue with people J a lot.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Lastly, this post is just my view and is not directed against anyone so please accept in good faith. Logical criticism is welcome J

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                 



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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9501 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: ~ JAZ

                                                                                                I did not BUY these fish.  Not by accident, not because of an impulse, not at all.  I. Did. Not. Buy. These. Fish.

                                                                                                So really, if there aren’t going to be anymore posts for HELP, then don’t post at all regarding these Blood Parrots.

                                                                                                I found my answers elsewhere so there really is no need to keep this up.

                                                                                                Did I mention that I didn’t buy these fish? =)  =P  =)

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                From: Nimish Mathur [mailto:nimmat4@...]
                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 3:32 PM
                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]~ JAZ

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Chill guys, no need to be arrogant for any reason. There are a lot of people who don’t know what Parrots are and accidently buy them. Besids, PFK is not available to everyone in the world and there are many people who know what parrots are but still buy them. Its everyone’s personal choice but yes, I myself also do discourage their purchase but for the reason of preventing any such further experiments. Dyed fish are in reality different from Blood parrots as parrots are a hybrid and sometimes they are artificially coloured like other fish called as “Dyed fish”.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                If some one has bought them without the knowledge of what they are, its not really their fault. We are all victims of Impulse buying and many times do buy fish that we have not researched on. 15 yrs of my hobby, and I still can sometimes be lured by some vivid colours.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Our purpose should be to spread the knowledge and not make the people who have done a mistake feel guilty.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                 


                                                                                                From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@...]
                                                                                                Sent: 23 March 2005 21:03
                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]~ JAZ

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                I have no problem in saying that you’re a jerk.

                                                                                                I didn’t BUY these fish you braniac.  I RESCUED them from someone who bought them then was letting them die in freezing water with no filtration or oxygen.

                                                                                                So shut your fly hole.

                                                                                                And NO I don’t ready FISH magazines.  I am not a fish HOBBYIST so I came to this group for help, not insults. 

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                From: jazz [mailto:jazz001@...]
                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 1:16 AM
                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                First of all why the hell you are buying these fish?

                                                                                                ok you might have bought them whitout knowing where they come from.

                                                                                                do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?

                                                                                                i assume not.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                These fish  Parrots DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE they are genetically deformed on purpose so people will buy they looking also at their aspect.

                                                                                                Secondly blood parrots are dyed ie injected with colour prior being sold.

                                                                                                the black spot your fish is developing is an exzema or a type of fish cancer.

                                                                                                recent study showed that half of the fish injected with coulor develepoed some form of sickness which lead to their death.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                i URGE EVERYBODY NOT TO BUY THESE FISH

                                                                                                Joseph Azzopardi

                                                                                                Malta



                                                                                                 



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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9502 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: ~ JAZ
                                                                                                Nimish Mathur said:
                                                                                                > Chill guys, no need to be arrogant for any reason. There are a lot of
                                                                                                > people
                                                                                                > who don't know what Parrots are and accidently buy them.

                                                                                                Accidently buy them? You make it seem like there is something wrong with
                                                                                                buying them.



                                                                                                > Dyed fish are in reality different from
                                                                                                > Blood
                                                                                                > parrots as parrots are a hybrid and sometimes they are artificially
                                                                                                > coloured
                                                                                                > like other fish called as "Dyed fish".

                                                                                                No. Again, Blood Parrots are not dyed. Jellybean parrots are frequently
                                                                                                dyed, but not Blood Parrots - they are orange/white/pink/red naturally.
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9503 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: tank
                                                                                                it is $450.00
                                                                                                6 feet long 30 inches deep and i think 24 wide. it is
                                                                                                in livermore california in my bosses house. i was
                                                                                                going to buy it, but i would rather have a little
                                                                                                smaller one myself due to limited space. it has an
                                                                                                overflow box in each corner and a return inthe center
                                                                                                that is t'd to treturn to both sides.
                                                                                                i think it is actually sold as a 175.
                                                                                                paul
                                                                                                --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > paul, how much $ are you charging, where in ca are
                                                                                                > you and how long, etc. is the tank?
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > thanks,
                                                                                                > valeen
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > > anyone in ca interested in a 180 gallon tank with
                                                                                                > dual
                                                                                                > > overflows?
                                                                                                > > paul
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > __________________________________
                                                                                                > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources
                                                                                                > site!
                                                                                                > > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >



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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9504 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: ~ JAZ
                                                                                                i don't know who this jazz guy is as i have never seen
                                                                                                a post from him/her before. i think that the poster
                                                                                                needs to jo0in peta or some other crap organization
                                                                                                instead of bothering peole here.
                                                                                                paul
                                                                                                p.s. i joined peta (people for the eating of tasty
                                                                                                animals) lmao
                                                                                                --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...>
                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                > I have no problem in saying that you're a jerk.
                                                                                                > I didn't BUY these fish you braniac. I RESCUED them
                                                                                                > from someone who
                                                                                                > bought them then was letting them die in freezing
                                                                                                > water with no
                                                                                                > filtration or oxygen.
                                                                                                > So shut your fly hole.
                                                                                                > And NO I don't ready FISH magazines. I am not a
                                                                                                > fish HOBBYIST so I came
                                                                                                > to this group for help, not insults.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                > From: jazz [mailto:jazz001@...]
                                                                                                > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 1:16 AM
                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > First of all why the hell you are buying these fish?
                                                                                                > ok you might have bought them whitout knowing where
                                                                                                > they come from.
                                                                                                > do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?
                                                                                                > i assume not.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > These fish Parrots DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE they are
                                                                                                > genetically deformed
                                                                                                > on purpose so people will buy they looking also at
                                                                                                > their aspect.
                                                                                                > Secondly blood parrots are dyed ie injected with
                                                                                                > colour prior being
                                                                                                > sold.
                                                                                                > the black spot your fish is developing is an exzema
                                                                                                > or a type of fish
                                                                                                > cancer.
                                                                                                > recent study showed that half of the fish injected
                                                                                                > with coulor
                                                                                                > develepoed some form of sickness which lead to their
                                                                                                > death.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > i URGE EVERYBODY NOT TO BUY THESE FISH
                                                                                                > Joseph Azzopardi
                                                                                                > Malta
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >



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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9505 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
                                                                                                Thank you so very much, Shannon; your kind words are much
                                                                                                appreciated. I'm so glad I was able to help you at those times.
                                                                                                Likewise, I'm glad to see you back. Its good to hear you finished up
                                                                                                on the rough draft for your thesis. Have been looking for your posts
                                                                                                and was wondering what happened. Noticed by some of your recent
                                                                                                posts, you seem to have become more fish savvy. Thought I saw you
                                                                                                mention a while back that you started your own forum site(s)(?),
                                                                                                unless I was mistaken. If so, can you fill us in on that? If not, I
                                                                                                probably didn't read that right. Best Wishes, Ray
                                                                                                \
                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Ray I missed you your so thorough and nice when offering help...
                                                                                                lordy knows
                                                                                                > you helped me numerous times.. nice to hear from you again.. Shannon
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Hi Stacey, No need to worry, there is nothing wrong with keeping
                                                                                                > some salt in your aquarium water, especially for mollies, provided
                                                                                                > you don't add too much. The one tbls of salt per five gallons
                                                                                                that
                                                                                                > you originally put in is not too much; most plants and some species
                                                                                                > of fish (like Cory catfish) do not like much more than that.
                                                                                                The
                                                                                                > only mistake you made was to use iodized table salt. As your fish
                                                                                                > are still doing okay today, they should continue to be alright.
                                                                                                > However, in the future, you want to avoid using salt with iodine
                                                                                                and
                                                                                                > anti-caking agents (silicon dioxide & tricalcium phosphate).
                                                                                                Kosher
                                                                                                > salt is perfectly fine and contrary to an earlier post, it DOES
                                                                                                NOT
                                                                                                > contain any anti-caking agents. This topic was covered about 6
                                                                                                > months ago. Kosher salt, if left out in humid conditions, will
                                                                                                cake
                                                                                                > up badly -- proof positive that it contains no additives.
                                                                                                > \
                                                                                                > Adding and then removing 80% of that small amount of salt should
                                                                                                not
                                                                                                > stress your fish in the least. One tbls (3 tsp) per five gallons
                                                                                                is
                                                                                                > the same as 2/3 tsp per gallon. Many hobbyists use at least 2
                                                                                                tsp.
                                                                                                > per gallon with certain disease treatments, and then sometimes 4
                                                                                                tsp
                                                                                                > per gallon (or up to 6 tsp per gallon). Mollies can take 8 tsp
                                                                                                per
                                                                                                > gallon. This is all built up gradually using 2 tsp per gallon per
                                                                                                > day. After the disease has been successfully treated, often 50%
                                                                                                > water changes are used to get rid of the salt. Using only 2 tsp
                                                                                                per
                                                                                                > gallon, a 50% water change would result in removing 1 tsp of salt
                                                                                                per
                                                                                                > gallon (without fear of stress) -- far more than you removed at
                                                                                                one
                                                                                                > time. So, in that respect, you did nothing wrong with your 80%
                                                                                                water
                                                                                                > change. Just remember next time, use Kosher (or pickeling) salt.
                                                                                                > Regards, Ray
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9506 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: tank
                                                                                                hm, i'll have to talk to my hubby about this one. i think it may be too long, though, for our
                                                                                                spare bedroom =( i would love to have a larger tank but that might be too much larger =)

                                                                                                right now we have an eclipse 6 with some tetras & a plec. a sw eclipse 12 with so far just some
                                                                                                crabs & snails, waiting another 2 wks for the fish, and 3 betta tanks -- a 2, 2.5 & a 3.

                                                                                                --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                > it is $450.00
                                                                                                > 6 feet long 30 inches deep and i think 24 wide. it is
                                                                                                > in livermore california in my bosses house. i was
                                                                                                > going to buy it, but i would rather have a little
                                                                                                > smaller one myself due to limited space. it has an
                                                                                                > overflow box in each corner and a return inthe center
                                                                                                > that is t'd to treturn to both sides.
                                                                                                > i think it is actually sold as a 175.
                                                                                                > paul
                                                                                                > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > > paul, how much $ are you charging, where in ca are
                                                                                                > > you and how long, etc. is the tank?
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > thanks,
                                                                                                > > valeen
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > > anyone in ca interested in a 180 gallon tank with
                                                                                                > > dual
                                                                                                > > > overflows?
                                                                                                > > > paul
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > __________________________________
                                                                                                > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                > > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources
                                                                                                > > site!
                                                                                                > > > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > __________________________________
                                                                                                > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
                                                                                                > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                                                                                >


                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9507 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
                                                                                                the "dyed glass fish" are dyed with food, not acid
                                                                                                bathed and dyed with coloring anymore. there are
                                                                                                still some injected ones with the neon stripe down
                                                                                                their backs, but for the most part you will find the
                                                                                                mixed fruits in the bay area. they are still
                                                                                                technically dyed, but it is in a non harmful and
                                                                                                humane way.
                                                                                                --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:

                                                                                                > i'm in the bay area, too, and sometimes still see
                                                                                                > dyed glassfish and those spotted-red pink
                                                                                                > kissing gouramis i think they're called, but that's
                                                                                                > it i think. how many other kinds of dyed fish
                                                                                                > were there? i'm not knowledgeable in that area but
                                                                                                > know of just those 2.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > > just a aisde note,
                                                                                                > > mostof the "painted tetras" in the hobby in
                                                                                                > california
                                                                                                > > are mixed fruit tetras. they are strawberries,
                                                                                                > blue
                                                                                                > > berries and apples. these fish are fed dyed foods
                                                                                                > at
                                                                                                > > hatching, the dye permeates the cells, and the
                                                                                                > fish
                                                                                                > > are unhardmed. the fish still live a normal life
                                                                                                > span
                                                                                                > > of several years, and retain some pigmant
                                                                                                > throughout
                                                                                                > > their life span. the pink become nearlyu white at
                                                                                                > > full growth, the blue and greens fade to lighter
                                                                                                > > colors, but they do not live any different.
                                                                                                > injected
                                                                                                > > fish have pretty much disappeared from the local
                                                                                                > > markets in the bay area of california. as to other
                                                                                                > > locations, i do not know and will not debate the
                                                                                                > > issue.
                                                                                                > > --- jazz <jazz001@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > > Why it's cruel to dye
                                                                                                > > > Dr Stan MacMahon and Dr Peter Burgess explain
                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                > > > damage done to fish when
                                                                                                > > > they are barbarically injected with dye.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > Some fishkeepers, and possibly even a few
                                                                                                > traders,
                                                                                                > > > may be puzzled as to why
                                                                                                > > > so much fuss has been made about dyed fish. On
                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                > > > face of it, the practice
                                                                                                > > > of dyeing or "painting" the fish seems fairly
                                                                                                > > > innocuous and the artificially
                                                                                                > > > dyed specimens are certainly very eye-catching
                                                                                                > in
                                                                                                > > > their various "day-glo"
                                                                                                > > > colours. So why push for a voluntary ban on
                                                                                                > selling
                                                                                                > > > them? Our investigations
                                                                                                > > > have revealed the truth behind the dyed fish
                                                                                                > saga.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > Disco fish
                                                                                                > > > Our first encounter with dyed fish was back in
                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                > > > late 1980's. Thousands of
                                                                                                > > > artificially coloured glassfish, Parambassis
                                                                                                > ranga
                                                                                                > > > (formerly Chanda ranga)
                                                                                                > > > were imported into the UK.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > The glassfish, so named because of its naturally
                                                                                                > > > semi-transparent body,
                                                                                                > > > obviously makes it an ideal subject for
                                                                                                > "painting".
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > They were seen with fluorescent shades of either
                                                                                                > > > blue, purple, red, yellow,
                                                                                                > > > orange or green produced by dyes.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > They were (and still are) imported under the
                                                                                                > names
                                                                                                > > > "painted glassfish" or
                                                                                                > > > "disco fish" (presumably because their almost
                                                                                                > > > fluorescent colours resemble
                                                                                                > > > discotheque lights).
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > How is the dye applied?
                                                                                                > > > Intrigued as to how the dye was applied we
                                                                                                > decided
                                                                                                > > > to carry out a little
                                                                                                > > > research. A few coloured glassfish were sedated
                                                                                                > in
                                                                                                > > > MS222 anaesthetic and
                                                                                                > > > observed under a binocular microscope. It became
                                                                                                > > > apparent that the dye is
                                                                                                > > > not on the surface of the fish, but lay under
                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                > > > epidermis.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > Furthermore, the dye appeared fluid and could be
                                                                                                > > > moved slightly by gently
                                                                                                > > > squeezing the coloured area.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > This suggested that it must have been injected
                                                                                                > into
                                                                                                > > > the fish at various
                                                                                                > > > sites over the body in order to form the
                                                                                                > distinctive
                                                                                                > > > colour patterns. Our
                                                                                                > > > fears were confirmed a few years later when we
                                                                                                > were
                                                                                                > > > shown photographs of the
                                                                                                > > > colouring process, revealing that each fish is
                                                                                                > > > individually injected using a
                                                                                                > > > syringe and needle.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > The practice of dye injection is undertaken by
                                                                                                > fish
                                                                                                > > > farmers in some regions
                                                                                                > > > of Asia (but not Singapore as far as we know).
                                                                                                > > > Clearly, the common name
                                                                                                > > > "painted glassfish" is a cruelly misleading
                                                                                                > > > description.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > If one considers the relative bore size of the
                                                                                                > > > injection needle with that of
                                                                                                > > > a glassfish, it would be the equivalent of us
                                                                                                > > > receiving several jabs using a
                                                                                                > > > needle of pencil-sized diameter - not a pleasant
                                                                                                > > > thought.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > As experienced fish scientists, we would never
                                                                                                > dream
                                                                                                > > > of injecting fish of
                                                                                                > > > such small size. No wonder the injection process
                                                                                                > is
                                                                                                > > > alleged to cause high
                                                                                                > > > mortalities.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > Increasing the risk of disease...
                                                                                                > > > A survey which we carried out in the south of
                                                                                                > > > England revealed that over 40%
                                                                                                > > > of painted glassfish appeared to be suffering
                                                                                                > from
                                                                                                > > > lymphocystis virus. This
                                                                                                > > > disease manifests itself as a small whitish
                                                                                                > growths
                                                                                                > > > on the fish's body and
                                                                                                > > > fins.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > An examination of the white growths under the
                                                                                                > > > powerful electron microscope
                                                                                                > > > confirmed our diagnosis. In contrast, less than
                                                                                                > 10%
                                                                                                > > > of the natural
                                                                                                > > > (unpainted) glassfish had lymphocystis.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > It is possible that the injection process
                                                                                                > increases
                                                                                                > > > the risk of this
                                                                                                > > > disease, perhaps by transmitting the virus from
                                                                                                > fish
                                                                                                > > > to fish via the needle
                                                                                                > > > (the same needle is used to inject tens or even
                                                                                                > > > hundreds of fish).
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > Alternatively, the stress of being injected with
                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                > > > dye may lower the fish'
                                                                                                > > > s natural immunity to lymphocystis. It must be
                                                                                                > said
                                                                                                > > > that, in our experience,
                                                                                                > > > those glassfish which survive the injection
                                                                                                > process
                                                                                                > > > go on to live fairly
                                                                                                > > > normal lives, despite the gaudy dyes present
                                                                                                > within
                                                                                                > > > their bodies. In time,
                                                                                                > > > the dye fades.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > Moral issue
                                                                                                > > > Many people believe that fish do not feel pain
                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                > > > so injecting them with
                                                                                                > > > dyes is perfectly acceptable. In fact,
                                                                                                > increasing
                                                                                                > > > scientific evidence
                                                                                                > > > suggests that fish are indeed capable of feeling
                                                                                                > > > pain, though we have no way
                                                                                                > > > of telling whether they perceive painful events
                                                                                                > in
                                                                                                > > > the same way as we do.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > So dye injection is likely to be a painful
                                                                                                > > > experience for the poor
                                                                                                > > > glassfish. In fairness, many traders and
                                                                                                > hobbyists
                                                                                                > > > were mislead, just as we
                                                                                                > > > first were, into thinking that these fish were
                                                                                                > > > simply painted with the dye.
                                                                                                > > > Now that the truth is out, it's time to stop
                                                                                                > this
                                                                                                > > > cruel practice, once and
                                                                                                > > > for all.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > Other species which are sometimes dyed
                                                                                                > > > Glassfish are not the only species which are
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                === message truncated ===




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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9508 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                                i whole heartedly agree with you there, and my reason
                                                                                                for posting it was to say that it is bs to list cancer
                                                                                                as a side effect and scare people about it. i simply
                                                                                                meant that it is the number 1 killer naturally.
                                                                                                paul
                                                                                                --- Amalthea <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > this is true, but wielding it as a scare tactic
                                                                                                > still doesn't win
                                                                                                > arguments.
                                                                                                > amatleha
                                                                                                > http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                > Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                                > On Mar 23, 2005, at 1:54 PM, paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > additionally, CANCER is the number 1 killer of all
                                                                                                > > species on the planet.
                                                                                                > > --- Amalthea <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > >> we've already discussed the fact that some of us
                                                                                                > are
                                                                                                > >> fine owning any
                                                                                                > >> number of pets that "don't exist in nature." i
                                                                                                > don't
                                                                                                > >> think any level of
                                                                                                > >> attack is going to cause people to stop buying
                                                                                                > them.
                                                                                                > >> i've yet to see
                                                                                                > >> the pet store without fancy goldfish or bettas.
                                                                                                > >> as for the dye, they are NOT all dyed. yes, a
                                                                                                > great
                                                                                                > >> many are, but some
                                                                                                > >> are not. using sweeping generalities and fear
                                                                                                > >> tactics (your fish has
                                                                                                > >> cancer!) doesn't help anything.
                                                                                                > >> agree to disagree in this forum, we're never
                                                                                                > going
                                                                                                > >> to come to an
                                                                                                > >> agreement on the issue, nor should we have to.
                                                                                                > >> amalthea
                                                                                                > >> http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                > >> Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                                > >> On Mar 23, 2005, at 2:15 AM, jazz wrote:
                                                                                                > >>
                                                                                                > >>> First of all why the hell you are buying these
                                                                                                > >> fish?
                                                                                                > >>> ok you might have bought them whitout knowing
                                                                                                > >> where they come from.
                                                                                                > >>> do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?
                                                                                                > >>> i assume not.
                                                                                                > >>> �
                                                                                                > >>> These fish� Parrots�DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE they
                                                                                                > >> are genetically
                                                                                                > >>> deformed on purpose so people will buy they
                                                                                                > >> looking also at their
                                                                                                > >>> aspect.
                                                                                                > >>> Secondly blood parrots are dyed ie injected with
                                                                                                > >> colour prior being
                                                                                                > >>> sold.
                                                                                                > >>> the black spot your fish is developing is an
                                                                                                > >> exzema or a type of fish
                                                                                                > >>> cancer.
                                                                                                > >>> recent study showed that half of the fish
                                                                                                > injected
                                                                                                > >> with coulor
                                                                                                > >>> develepoed some form of sickness which lead to
                                                                                                > >> their death.
                                                                                                > >>> �
                                                                                                > >>> i URGE EVERYBODY NOT TO BUY THESE FISH
                                                                                                > >>> Joseph Azzopardi
                                                                                                > >>> Malta
                                                                                                > >>>
                                                                                                > >>>
                                                                                                > >>> Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                > >> when replying, thanks
                                                                                                > >>> .
                                                                                                > >>> Please, when you reply to a post, delete all
                                                                                                > text
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                                                                                                > >> subject (was re: old
                                                                                                > >>> subject)" <-,� we Thank You in Advance for your
                                                                                                > >> help in this matter
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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9509 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: tank
                                                                                                this tank is awesome, but i also have teh opprotunity
                                                                                                to buy a 140 gallon reef tank that is 4 feet, and as i
                                                                                                am not into really large sw fish i would rather have
                                                                                                that one.
                                                                                                paul
                                                                                                --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > hm, i'll have to talk to my hubby about this one. i
                                                                                                > think it may be too long, though, for our
                                                                                                > spare bedroom =( i would love to have a larger tank
                                                                                                > but that might be too much larger =)
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > right now we have an eclipse 6 with some tetras & a
                                                                                                > plec. a sw eclipse 12 with so far just some
                                                                                                > crabs & snails, waiting another 2 wks for the fish,
                                                                                                > and 3 betta tanks -- a 2, 2.5 & a 3.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > > it is $450.00
                                                                                                > > 6 feet long 30 inches deep and i think 24 wide.
                                                                                                > it is
                                                                                                > > in livermore california in my bosses house. i was
                                                                                                > > going to buy it, but i would rather have a little
                                                                                                > > smaller one myself due to limited space. it has
                                                                                                > an
                                                                                                > > overflow box in each corner and a return inthe
                                                                                                > center
                                                                                                > > that is t'd to treturn to both sides.
                                                                                                > > i think it is actually sold as a 175.
                                                                                                > > paul
                                                                                                > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                > > > paul, how much $ are you charging, where in ca
                                                                                                > are
                                                                                                > > > you and how long, etc. is the tank?
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > thanks,
                                                                                                > > > valeen
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > > anyone in ca interested in a 180 gallon tank
                                                                                                > with
                                                                                                > > > dual
                                                                                                > > > > overflows?
                                                                                                > > > > paul
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > __________________________________
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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9510 From: Amalthea Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
                                                                                                in the spring, i dye queen anne's lace in the same manner!
                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                Get em' while they're cheap!
                                                                                                Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the
                                                                                                Basement....
                                                                                                http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
                                                                                                On Mar 23, 2005, at 5:09 PM, paul helms wrote:

                                                                                                > the "dyed glass fish" are dyed with food, not acid
                                                                                                > bathed and dyed with coloring anymore.  there are
                                                                                                > still some injected ones with the neon stripe down
                                                                                                > their backs, but for the most part you will find the
                                                                                                > mixed fruits in the bay area.  they are still
                                                                                                > technically dyed, but it is in a non harmful and
                                                                                                > humane way.
                                                                                                > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > > i'm in the bay area, too, and sometimes still see
                                                                                                > > dyed glassfish and those spotted-red pink
                                                                                                > > kissing gouramis i think they're called, but that's
                                                                                                > > it i think. how many other kinds of dyed fish
                                                                                                > > were there? i'm not knowledgeable in that area but
                                                                                                > > know of just those 2.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > > just a aisde note,
                                                                                                > > > mostof the "painted tetras" in the hobby in
                                                                                                > > california
                                                                                                > > > are mixed fruit tetras.  they are strawberries,
                                                                                                > > blue
                                                                                                > > > berries and apples.  these fish are fed dyed foods
                                                                                                > > at
                                                                                                > > > hatching, the dye permeates the cells, and the
                                                                                                > > fish
                                                                                                > > > are unhardmed.  the fish still live a normal life
                                                                                                > > span
                                                                                                > > > of several years, and retain some pigmant
                                                                                                > > throughout
                                                                                                > > > their life span.  the pink become nearlyu white at
                                                                                                > > > full growth, the blue and greens fade to lighter
                                                                                                > > > colors, but they do not live any different.
                                                                                                > > injected
                                                                                                > > > fish have pretty much disappeared from the local
                                                                                                > > > markets in the bay area of california. as to other
                                                                                                > > > locations, i do not know and will not debate the
                                                                                                > > > issue.
                                                                                                > > > --- jazz <jazz001@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Why it's cruel to dye
                                                                                                > > > > Dr Stan MacMahon and Dr Peter Burgess explain
                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                > > > > damage done to fish when
                                                                                                > > > > they are barbarically injected with dye.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Some fishkeepers, and possibly even a few
                                                                                                > > traders,
                                                                                                > > > > may be puzzled as to why
                                                                                                > > > > so much fuss has been made about dyed fish. On
                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                > > > > face of it, the practice
                                                                                                > > > > of dyeing or "painting" the fish seems fairly
                                                                                                > > > > innocuous and the artificially
                                                                                                > > > > dyed specimens are certainly very eye-catching
                                                                                                > > in
                                                                                                > > > > their various "day-glo"
                                                                                                > > > > colours. So why push for a voluntary ban on
                                                                                                > > selling
                                                                                                > > > > them? Our investigations
                                                                                                > > > > have revealed the truth behind the dyed fish
                                                                                                > > saga.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Disco fish
                                                                                                > > > > Our first encounter with dyed fish was back in
                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                > > > > late 1980's. Thousands of
                                                                                                > > > > artificially coloured glassfish, Parambassis
                                                                                                > > ranga
                                                                                                > > > > (formerly Chanda ranga)
                                                                                                > > > > were imported into the UK.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > The glassfish, so named because of its naturally
                                                                                                > > > > semi-transparent body,
                                                                                                > > > > obviously makes it an ideal subject for
                                                                                                > > "painting".
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > They were seen with fluorescent shades of either
                                                                                                > > > > blue, purple, red, yellow,
                                                                                                > > > > orange or green produced by dyes.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > They were (and still are) imported under the
                                                                                                > > names
                                                                                                > > > > "painted glassfish" or
                                                                                                > > > > "disco fish" (presumably because their almost
                                                                                                > > > > fluorescent colours resemble
                                                                                                > > > > discotheque lights).
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > How is the dye applied?
                                                                                                > > > > Intrigued as to how the dye was applied we
                                                                                                > > decided
                                                                                                > > > > to carry out a little
                                                                                                > > > > research. A few coloured glassfish were sedated
                                                                                                > > in
                                                                                                > > > > MS222 anaesthetic and
                                                                                                > > > > observed under a binocular microscope. It became
                                                                                                > > > > apparent that the dye is
                                                                                                > > > > not on the surface of the fish, but lay under
                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                > > > > epidermis.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Furthermore, the dye appeared fluid and could be
                                                                                                > > > > moved slightly by gently
                                                                                                > > > > squeezing the coloured area.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > This suggested that it must have been injected
                                                                                                > > into
                                                                                                > > > > the fish at various
                                                                                                > > > > sites over the body in order to form the
                                                                                                > > distinctive
                                                                                                > > > > colour patterns. Our
                                                                                                > > > > fears were confirmed a few years later when we
                                                                                                > > were
                                                                                                > > > > shown photographs of the
                                                                                                > > > > colouring process, revealing that each fish is
                                                                                                > > > > individually injected using a
                                                                                                > > > > syringe and needle.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > The practice of dye injection is undertaken by
                                                                                                > > fish
                                                                                                > > > > farmers in some regions
                                                                                                > > > > of Asia (but not Singapore as far as we know).
                                                                                                > > > > Clearly, the common name
                                                                                                > > > > "painted glassfish" is a cruelly misleading
                                                                                                > > > > description.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > If one considers the relative bore size of the
                                                                                                > > > > injection needle with that of
                                                                                                > > > > a glassfish, it would be the equivalent of us
                                                                                                > > > > receiving several jabs using a
                                                                                                > > > > needle of pencil-sized diameter - not a pleasant
                                                                                                > > > > thought.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > As experienced fish scientists, we would never
                                                                                                > > dream
                                                                                                > > > > of injecting fish of
                                                                                                > > > > such small size. No wonder the injection process
                                                                                                > > is
                                                                                                > > > > alleged to cause high
                                                                                                > > > > mortalities.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Increasing the risk of disease...
                                                                                                > > > > A survey which we carried out in the south of
                                                                                                > > > > England revealed that over 40%
                                                                                                > > > > of painted glassfish appeared to be suffering
                                                                                                > > from
                                                                                                > > > > lymphocystis virus. This
                                                                                                > > > > disease manifests itself as a small whitish
                                                                                                > > growths
                                                                                                > > > > on the fish's body and
                                                                                                > > > > fins.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > An examination of the white growths under the
                                                                                                > > > > powerful electron microscope
                                                                                                > > > > confirmed our diagnosis. In contrast, less than
                                                                                                > > 10%
                                                                                                > > > > of the natural
                                                                                                > > > > (unpainted) glassfish had lymphocystis.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > It is possible that the injection process
                                                                                                > > increases
                                                                                                > > > > the risk of this
                                                                                                > > > > disease, perhaps by transmitting the virus from
                                                                                                > > fish
                                                                                                > > > > to fish via the needle
                                                                                                > > > > (the same needle is used to inject tens or even
                                                                                                > > > > hundreds of fish).
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Alternatively, the stress of being injected with
                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                > > > > dye may lower the fish'
                                                                                                > > > > s natural immunity to lymphocystis. It must be
                                                                                                > > said
                                                                                                > > > > that, in our experience,
                                                                                                > > > > those glassfish which survive the injection
                                                                                                > > process
                                                                                                > > > > go on to live fairly
                                                                                                > > > > normal lives, despite the gaudy dyes present
                                                                                                > > within
                                                                                                > > > > their bodies. In time,
                                                                                                > > > > the dye fades.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Moral issue
                                                                                                > > > > Many people believe that fish do not feel pain
                                                                                                > > and
                                                                                                > > > > so injecting them with
                                                                                                > > > > dyes is perfectly acceptable. In fact,
                                                                                                > > increasing
                                                                                                > > > > scientific evidence
                                                                                                > > > > suggests that fish are indeed capable of feeling
                                                                                                > > > > pain, though we have no way
                                                                                                > > > > of telling whether they perceive painful events
                                                                                                > > in
                                                                                                > > > > the same way as we do.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > So dye injection is likely to be a painful
                                                                                                > > > > experience for the poor
                                                                                                > > > > glassfish. In fairness, many traders and
                                                                                                > > hobbyists
                                                                                                > > > > were mislead, just as we
                                                                                                > > > > first were, into thinking that these fish were
                                                                                                > > > > simply painted with the dye.
                                                                                                > > > > Now that the truth is out, it's time to stop
                                                                                                > > this
                                                                                                > > > > cruel practice, once and
                                                                                                > > > > for all.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Other species which are sometimes dyed
                                                                                                > > > > Glassfish are not the only species which are
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > === message truncated ===
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9511 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
                                                                                                hi

                                                                                                yes yes you are totally right paul it is much better
                                                                                                now than it was in the past! well i dont mind having
                                                                                                people having different after all what would be the
                                                                                                world if everyone thought the same and everyone agreed
                                                                                                on everything! In my simple opinion for me a fish is
                                                                                                nice as nature actually created it, hybrids like
                                                                                                parrots always occur in nature some actually survive
                                                                                                well like the parrots other's dont actually i think
                                                                                                nature knows how to take care of itself more than we
                                                                                                do! :P

                                                                                                Just one final thing about everything what happened
                                                                                                about the argument well jazz might have switched on
                                                                                                the fire a bit badly but hell we burnt a whole forest
                                                                                                then!! :P :P no offense to noone please! i am just
                                                                                                saying what i feel in a very humoristic manner!

                                                                                                Nigel

                                                                                                --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                ---------------------------------
                                                                                                the "dyed glass fish" are dyed with food, not acid
                                                                                                bathed and dyed with coloring anymore. there are
                                                                                                still some injected ones with the neon stripe down
                                                                                                their backs, but for the most part you will find the
                                                                                                mixed fruits in the bay area. they are still
                                                                                                technically dyed, but it is in a non harmful and
                                                                                                humane way.
                                                                                                --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:

                                                                                                > i'm in the bay area, too, and sometimes still see
                                                                                                > dyed glassfish and those spotted-red pink
                                                                                                > kissing gouramis i think they're called, but that's
                                                                                                > it i think. how many other kinds of dyed fish
                                                                                                > were there? i'm not knowledgeable in that area but
                                                                                                > know of just those 2.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > > just a aisde note,
                                                                                                > > mostof the "painted tetras" in the hobby in
                                                                                                > california
                                                                                                > > are mixed fruit tetras. they are strawberries,
                                                                                                > blue
                                                                                                > > berries and apples. these fish are fed dyed foods
                                                                                                > at
                                                                                                > > hatching, the dye permeates the cells, and the
                                                                                                > fish
                                                                                                > > are unhardmed. the fish still live a normal life
                                                                                                > span
                                                                                                > > of several years, and retain some pigmant
                                                                                                > throughout
                                                                                                > > their life span. the pink become nearlyu white at
                                                                                                > > full growth, the blue and greens fade to lighter
                                                                                                > > colors, but they do not live any different.
                                                                                                > injected
                                                                                                > > fish have pretty much disappeared from the local
                                                                                                > > markets in the bay area of california. as to other
                                                                                                > > locations, i do not know and will not debate the
                                                                                                > > issue.
                                                                                                > > --- jazz <jazz001@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > > Why it's cruel to dye
                                                                                                > > > Dr Stan MacMahon and Dr Peter Burgess explain
                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                > > > damage done to fish when
                                                                                                > > > they are barbarically injected with dye.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > Some fishkeepers, and possibly even a few
                                                                                                > traders,
                                                                                                > > > may be puzzled as to why
                                                                                                > > > so much fuss has been made about dyed fish. On
                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                > > > face of it, the practice
                                                                                                > > > of dyeing or "painting" the fish seems fairly
                                                                                                > > > innocuous and the artificially
                                                                                                > > > dyed specimens are certainly very eye-catching
                                                                                                > in
                                                                                                > > > their various "day-glo"
                                                                                                > > > colours. So why push for a voluntary ban on
                                                                                                > selling
                                                                                                > > > them? Our investigations
                                                                                                > > > have revealed the truth behind the dyed fish
                                                                                                > saga.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > Disco fish
                                                                                                > > > Our first encounter with dyed fish was back in
                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                > > > late 1980's. Thousands of
                                                                                                > > > artificially coloured glassfish, Parambassis
                                                                                                > ranga
                                                                                                > > > (formerly Chanda ranga)
                                                                                                > > > were imported into the UK.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > The glassfish, so named because of its naturally
                                                                                                > > > semi-transparent body,
                                                                                                > > > obviously makes it an ideal subject for
                                                                                                > "painting".
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > They were seen with fluorescent shades of either
                                                                                                > > > blue, purple, red, yellow,
                                                                                                > > > orange or green produced by dyes.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > They were (and still are) imported under the
                                                                                                > names
                                                                                                > > > "painted glassfish" or
                                                                                                > > > "disco fish" (presumably because their almost
                                                                                                > > > fluorescent colours resemble
                                                                                                > > > discotheque lights).
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > How is the dye applied?
                                                                                                > > > Intrigued as to how the dye was applied we
                                                                                                > decided
                                                                                                > > > to carry out a little
                                                                                                > > > research. A few coloured glassfish were sedated
                                                                                                > in
                                                                                                > > > MS222 anaesthetic and
                                                                                                > > > observed under a binocular microscope. It became
                                                                                                > > > apparent that the dye is
                                                                                                > > > not on the surface of the fish, but lay under
                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                > > > epidermis.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > Furthermore, the dye appeared fluid and could be
                                                                                                > > > moved slightly by gently
                                                                                                > > > squeezing the coloured area.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > This suggested that it must have been injected
                                                                                                > into
                                                                                                > > > the fish at various
                                                                                                > > > sites over the body in order to form the
                                                                                                > distinctive
                                                                                                > > > colour patterns. Our
                                                                                                > > > fears were confirmed a few years later when we
                                                                                                > were
                                                                                                > > > shown photographs of the
                                                                                                > > > colouring process, revealing that each fish is
                                                                                                > > > individually injected using a
                                                                                                > > > syringe and needle.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > The practice of dye injection is undertaken by
                                                                                                > fish
                                                                                                > > > farmers in some regions
                                                                                                > > > of Asia (but not Singapore as far as we know).
                                                                                                > > > Clearly, the common name
                                                                                                > > > "painted glassfish" is a cruelly misleading
                                                                                                > > > description.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > If one considers the relative bore size of the
                                                                                                > > > injection needle with that of
                                                                                                > > > a glassfish, it would be the equivalent of us
                                                                                                > > > receiving several jabs using a
                                                                                                > > > needle of pencil-sized diameter - not a pleasant
                                                                                                > > > thought.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > As experienced fish scientists, we would never
                                                                                                > dream
                                                                                                > > > of injecting fish of
                                                                                                > > > such small size. No wonder the injection process
                                                                                                > is
                                                                                                > > > alleged to cause high
                                                                                                > > > mortalities.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > Increasing the risk of disease...
                                                                                                > > > A survey which we carried out in the south of
                                                                                                > > > England revealed that over 40%
                                                                                                > > > of painted glassfish appeared to be suffering
                                                                                                > from
                                                                                                > > > lymphocystis virus. This
                                                                                                > > > disease manifests itself as a small whitish
                                                                                                > growths
                                                                                                > > > on the fish's body and
                                                                                                > > > fins.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > An examination of the white growths under the
                                                                                                > > > powerful electron microscope
                                                                                                > > > confirmed our diagnosis. In contrast, less than
                                                                                                > 10%
                                                                                                > > > of the natural
                                                                                                > > > (unpainted) glassfish had lymphocystis.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > It is possible that the injection process
                                                                                                > increases
                                                                                                > > > the risk of this
                                                                                                > > > disease, perhaps by transmitting the virus from
                                                                                                > fish
                                                                                                > > > to fish via the needle
                                                                                                > > > (the same needle is used to inject tens or even
                                                                                                > > > hundreds of fish).
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > Alternatively, the stress of being injected with
                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                > > > dye may lower the fish'
                                                                                                > > > s natural immunity to lymphocystis. It must be
                                                                                                > said
                                                                                                > > > that, in our experience,
                                                                                                > > > those glassfish which survive the injection
                                                                                                > process
                                                                                                > > > go on to live fairly
                                                                                                > > > normal lives, despite the gaudy dyes present
                                                                                                > within
                                                                                                > > > their bodies. In time,
                                                                                                > > > the dye fades.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > Moral issue
                                                                                                > > > Many people believe that fish do not feel pain
                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                > > > so injecting them with
                                                                                                > > > dyes is perfectly acceptable. In fact,
                                                                                                > increasing
                                                                                                > > > scientific evidence
                                                                                                > > > suggests that fish are indeed capable of feeling
                                                                                                > > > pain, though we have no way
                                                                                                > > > of telling whether they perceive painful events
                                                                                                > in
                                                                                                > > > the same way as we do.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > So dye injection is likely to be a painful
                                                                                                > > > experience for the poor
                                                                                                > > > glassfish. In fairness, many traders and
                                                                                                > hobbyists
                                                                                                > > > were mislead, just as we
                                                                                                > > > first were, into thinking that these fish were
                                                                                                > > > simply painted with the dye.
                                                                                                > > > Now that the truth is out, it's time to stop
                                                                                                > this
                                                                                                > > > cruel practice, once and
                                                                                                > > > for all.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > Other species which are sometimes dyed
                                                                                                > > > Glassfish are not the only species which are
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                === message truncated ===




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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9512 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish - glowlight danios?
                                                                                                    I wish people would quit calling them glolight danios.  THEY DON'T EXIST!  Glolights are a small, naturally colored tetra.  Glofish are a genetically modified zebra danio.  They are glofish.  Any fish called a glolight danio is either really a tetra, or somebody has mislabeled their glofish tank.  Glofish are trademarked and patented, so there is no chance of somebody legally selling glofish under the name glolight danio.  When people mislabel their fish, they cause people all kinds of trouble knowing what is being talked about.
                                                                                                    Next, and I know I was accused of this, where do you get your information that glofish have shortened lives?  These fish are 100% zebra danio, with some extra genes added.  Those genes are placed into them before being born.  They only effect skin pigmentation.  Where do you get your information?  Be careful, these people spent too much money to let people make unsupportable claims, even if they are well-intentioned, about their products.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                Patrick
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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9513 From: m senter Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: question about mollies
                                                                                                 I hope you can answer this but how common is it that a molly gives birth to all still born fish. Is this some thing i need to be worried about with this or should i just give up hope with this fish.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                melissa
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9514 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
                                                                                                unfortunately the dyed glass fish i've seen must be the injected ones because they have the
                                                                                                florescent stripes down their backs, not elsewhere on their bodies.

                                                                                                and the gourami i was mistaken on the name, it's actually a polka-dot gourami. and i've seen them
                                                                                                all over the bay -- on the peninsula and in the city.

                                                                                                --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                > the "dyed glass fish" are dyed with food, not acid
                                                                                                > bathed and dyed with coloring anymore. there are
                                                                                                > still some injected ones with the neon stripe down
                                                                                                > their backs, but for the most part you will find the
                                                                                                > mixed fruits in the bay area. they are still
                                                                                                > technically dyed, but it is in a non harmful and
                                                                                                > humane way.
                                                                                                > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > > i'm in the bay area, too, and sometimes still see
                                                                                                > > dyed glassfish and those spotted-red pink
                                                                                                > > kissing gouramis i think they're called, but that's
                                                                                                > > it i think. how many other kinds of dyed fish
                                                                                                > > were there? i'm not knowledgeable in that area but
                                                                                                > > know of just those 2.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > > just a aisde note,
                                                                                                > > > mostof the "painted tetras" in the hobby in
                                                                                                > > california
                                                                                                > > > are mixed fruit tetras. they are strawberries,
                                                                                                > > blue
                                                                                                > > > berries and apples. these fish are fed dyed foods
                                                                                                > > at
                                                                                                > > > hatching, the dye permeates the cells, and the
                                                                                                > > fish
                                                                                                > > > are unhardmed. the fish still live a normal life
                                                                                                > > span
                                                                                                > > > of several years, and retain some pigmant
                                                                                                > > throughout
                                                                                                > > > their life span. the pink become nearlyu white at
                                                                                                > > > full growth, the blue and greens fade to lighter
                                                                                                > > > colors, but they do not live any different.
                                                                                                > > injected
                                                                                                > > > fish have pretty much disappeared from the local
                                                                                                > > > markets in the bay area of california. as to other
                                                                                                > > > locations, i do not know and will not debate the
                                                                                                > > > issue.
                                                                                                > > > --- jazz <jazz001@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Why it's cruel to dye
                                                                                                > > > > Dr Stan MacMahon and Dr Peter Burgess explain
                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                > > > > damage done to fish when
                                                                                                > > > > they are barbarically injected with dye.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Some fishkeepers, and possibly even a few
                                                                                                > > traders,
                                                                                                > > > > may be puzzled as to why
                                                                                                > > > > so much fuss has been made about dyed fish. On
                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                > > > > face of it, the practice
                                                                                                > > > > of dyeing or "painting" the fish seems fairly
                                                                                                > > > > innocuous and the artificially
                                                                                                > > > > dyed specimens are certainly very eye-catching
                                                                                                > > in
                                                                                                > > > > their various "day-glo"
                                                                                                > > > > colours. So why push for a voluntary ban on
                                                                                                > > selling
                                                                                                > > > > them? Our investigations
                                                                                                > > > > have revealed the truth behind the dyed fish
                                                                                                > > saga.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Disco fish
                                                                                                > > > > Our first encounter with dyed fish was back in
                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                > > > > late 1980's. Thousands of
                                                                                                > > > > artificially coloured glassfish, Parambassis
                                                                                                > > ranga
                                                                                                > > > > (formerly Chanda ranga)
                                                                                                > > > > were imported into the UK.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > The glassfish, so named because of its naturally
                                                                                                > > > > semi-transparent body,
                                                                                                > > > > obviously makes it an ideal subject for
                                                                                                > > "painting".
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > They were seen with fluorescent shades of either
                                                                                                > > > > blue, purple, red, yellow,
                                                                                                > > > > orange or green produced by dyes.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > They were (and still are) imported under the
                                                                                                > > names
                                                                                                > > > > "painted glassfish" or
                                                                                                > > > > "disco fish" (presumably because their almost
                                                                                                > > > > fluorescent colours resemble
                                                                                                > > > > discotheque lights).
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > How is the dye applied?
                                                                                                > > > > Intrigued as to how the dye was applied we
                                                                                                > > decided
                                                                                                > > > > to carry out a little
                                                                                                > > > > research. A few coloured glassfish were sedated
                                                                                                > > in
                                                                                                > > > > MS222 anaesthetic and
                                                                                                > > > > observed under a binocular microscope. It became
                                                                                                > > > > apparent that the dye is
                                                                                                > > > > not on the surface of the fish, but lay under
                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                > > > > epidermis.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Furthermore, the dye appeared fluid and could be
                                                                                                > > > > moved slightly by gently
                                                                                                > > > > squeezing the coloured area.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > This suggested that it must have been injected
                                                                                                > > into
                                                                                                > > > > the fish at various
                                                                                                > > > > sites over the body in order to form the
                                                                                                > > distinctive
                                                                                                > > > > colour patterns. Our
                                                                                                > > > > fears were confirmed a few years later when we
                                                                                                > > were
                                                                                                > > > > shown photographs of the
                                                                                                > > > > colouring process, revealing that each fish is
                                                                                                > > > > individually injected using a
                                                                                                > > > > syringe and needle.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > The practice of dye injection is undertaken by
                                                                                                > > fish
                                                                                                > > > > farmers in some regions
                                                                                                > > > > of Asia (but not Singapore as far as we know).
                                                                                                > > > > Clearly, the common name
                                                                                                > > > > "painted glassfish" is a cruelly misleading
                                                                                                > > > > description.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > If one considers the relative bore size of the
                                                                                                > > > > injection needle with that of
                                                                                                > > > > a glassfish, it would be the equivalent of us
                                                                                                > > > > receiving several jabs using a
                                                                                                > > > > needle of pencil-sized diameter - not a pleasant
                                                                                                > > > > thought.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > As experienced fish scientists, we would never
                                                                                                > > dream
                                                                                                > > > > of injecting fish of
                                                                                                > > > > such small size. No wonder the injection process
                                                                                                > > is
                                                                                                > > > > alleged to cause high
                                                                                                > > > > mortalities.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Increasing the risk of disease...
                                                                                                > > > > A survey which we carried out in the south of
                                                                                                > > > > England revealed that over 40%
                                                                                                > > > > of painted glassfish appeared to be suffering
                                                                                                > > from
                                                                                                > > > > lymphocystis virus. This
                                                                                                > > > > disease manifests itself as a small whitish
                                                                                                > > growths
                                                                                                > > > > on the fish's body and
                                                                                                > > > > fins.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > An examination of the white growths under the
                                                                                                > > > > powerful electron microscope
                                                                                                > > > > confirmed our diagnosis. In contrast, less than
                                                                                                > > 10%
                                                                                                > > > > of the natural
                                                                                                > > > > (unpainted) glassfish had lymphocystis.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > It is possible that the injection process
                                                                                                > > increases
                                                                                                > > > > the risk of this
                                                                                                > > > > disease, perhaps by transmitting the virus from
                                                                                                > > fish
                                                                                                > > > > to fish via the needle
                                                                                                > > > > (the same needle is used to inject tens or even
                                                                                                > > > > hundreds of fish).
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Alternatively, the stress of being injected with
                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                > > > > dye may lower the fish'
                                                                                                > > > > s natural immunity to lymphocystis. It must be
                                                                                                > > said
                                                                                                > > > > that, in our experience,
                                                                                                > > > > those glassfish which survive the injection
                                                                                                > > process
                                                                                                > > > > go on to live fairly
                                                                                                > > > > normal lives, despite the gaudy dyes present
                                                                                                > > within
                                                                                                > > > > their bodies. In time,
                                                                                                > > > > the dye fades.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Moral issue
                                                                                                > > > > Many people believe that fish do not feel pain
                                                                                                > > and
                                                                                                > > > > so injecting them with
                                                                                                > > > > dyes is perfectly acceptable. In fact,
                                                                                                > > increasing
                                                                                                > > > > scientific evidence
                                                                                                > > > > suggests that fish are indeed capable of feeling
                                                                                                > > > > pain, though we have no way
                                                                                                > > > > of telling whether they perceive painful events
                                                                                                > > in
                                                                                                > > > > the same way as we do.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > So dye injection is likely to be a painful
                                                                                                > > > > experience for the poor
                                                                                                > > > > glassfish. In fairness, many traders and
                                                                                                > > hobbyists
                                                                                                > > > > were mislead, just as we
                                                                                                > > > > first were, into thinking that these fish were
                                                                                                > > > > simply painted with the dye.
                                                                                                > > > > Now that the truth is out, it's time to stop
                                                                                                > > this
                                                                                                > > > > cruel practice, once and
                                                                                                > > > > for all.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Other species which are sometimes dyed
                                                                                                > > > > Glassfish are not the only species which are
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > === message truncated ===
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9515 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: question about mollies
                                                                                                i have never seen a fish give birth to all still born
                                                                                                fish, usually only a couple. i would guess that
                                                                                                either the fish is not capable, or that she was over
                                                                                                stressed and gave birth premature.
                                                                                                paul
                                                                                                --- m senter <msenter@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > I hope you can answer this but how common is it
                                                                                                > that a molly gives birth to
                                                                                                > all still born fish. Is this some thing i need to be
                                                                                                > worried about with this
                                                                                                > or should i just give up hope with this fish.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > melissa



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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9516 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                                Out of curiousity, what were the two fish that are bred for parrots?


                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                From: "Ron Hansen" <yahoo1@...>
                                                                                                To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 10:01 AM
                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots


                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Facts are facts, but some of yours are wrong. Try checking them before
                                                                                                > you spout off.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Blood Parrots are typically not dyed and have not been mistreated in any
                                                                                                > way. They are naturaly splotched orange and white and sometimes red.
                                                                                                > Most sold are solid orange, but this is their natural coloration.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Jellybean Parrots are dyed for some of the colors (others are au natural),
                                                                                                > but most have their protective coat stripped off. These fish are not
                                                                                                > healthy and never will be. At a minimum, their growth is stunted and the
                                                                                                > dye will fade in six months. At worst, they will die from the stress of
                                                                                                > fighting off infections.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > We are talking about Blood Parrots here which are a hybridization of two
                                                                                                > fish that would not normally meet in the wild. As stated here by others,
                                                                                                > it's not all that different from selectively breeding dogs to enhance
                                                                                                > specific traits.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > The spots on the fish are normal coloration changes in these particular
                                                                                                > fish caused by environment or maturity. They are not exczema or cancer.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > If you want to a more worthy cause, fight against "painted" or dyed fish.
                                                                                                > These fish have been cruelly injected with dyes and are fighting off the
                                                                                                > dye and supplemental infections from the needle punctures. No animal
                                                                                                > should be tortured this way.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > jazz said:
                                                                                                > > Mine is not an attack on any body to make that clear
                                                                                                > > facts are facts
                                                                                                > > you can either believe them
                                                                                                > > or do like the ostrich borrow your head in the sand and hear nor see
                                                                                                > > anything.
                                                                                                > > joseph
                                                                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                > > From: Amalthea
                                                                                                > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                > > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 9:04 AM
                                                                                                > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > we've already discussed the fact that some of us are fine owning any
                                                                                                > > number of pets that "don't exist in nature." i don't think any level of
                                                                                                > > attack is going to cause people to stop buying them. i've yet to see the
                                                                                                > > pet store without fancy goldfish or bettas.
                                                                                                > > as for the dye, they are NOT all dyed. yes, a great many are, but some
                                                                                                > > are not. using sweeping generalities and fear tactics (your fish has
                                                                                                > > cancer!) doesn't help anything.
                                                                                                > > agree to disagree in this forum, we're never going to come to an
                                                                                                > > agreement on the issue, nor should we have to.
                                                                                                > > amalthea
                                                                                                > > http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                > > Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                                > > On Mar 23, 2005, at 2:15 AM, jazz wrote:
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > First of all why the hell you are buying these fish?
                                                                                                > > ok you might have bought them whitout knowing where they come from.
                                                                                                > > do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?
                                                                                                > > i assume not.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > These fish Parrots DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE they are genetically
                                                                                                > > deformed on purpose so people will buy they looking also at their
                                                                                                > > aspect.
                                                                                                > > Secondly blood parrots are dyed ie injected with colour prior being
                                                                                                > > sold.
                                                                                                > > the black spot your fish is developing is an exzema or a type of
                                                                                                fish
                                                                                                > > cancer.
                                                                                                > > recent study showed that half of the fish injected with coulor
                                                                                                > > develepoed some form of sickness which lead to their death.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > i URGE EVERYBODY NOT TO BUY THESE FISH
                                                                                                > > Joseph Azzopardi
                                                                                                > > Malta
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9517 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
                                                                                                nice way to post nigel...this group easily gets
                                                                                                carried away, i used to get that way mysellf on here
                                                                                                as we had a few that refused to be wrong in the past,
                                                                                                so i know what you mean.
                                                                                                paul
                                                                                                --- Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@...> wrote:

                                                                                                > hi
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > yes yes you are totally right paul it is much better
                                                                                                > now than it was in the past! well i dont mind having
                                                                                                > people having different after all what would be the
                                                                                                > world if everyone thought the same and everyone
                                                                                                > agreed
                                                                                                > on everything! In my simple opinion for me a fish is
                                                                                                > nice as nature actually created it, hybrids like
                                                                                                > parrots always occur in nature some actually survive
                                                                                                > well like the parrots other's dont actually i think
                                                                                                > nature knows how to take care of itself more than we
                                                                                                > do! :P
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Just one final thing about everything what happened
                                                                                                > about the argument well jazz might have switched on
                                                                                                > the fire a bit badly but hell we burnt a whole
                                                                                                > forest
                                                                                                > then!! :P :P no offense to noone please! i am just
                                                                                                > saying what i feel in a very humoristic manner!
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Nigel
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                > the "dyed glass fish" are dyed with food, not acid
                                                                                                > bathed and dyed with coloring anymore. there are
                                                                                                > still some injected ones with the neon stripe down
                                                                                                > their backs, but for the most part you will find the
                                                                                                > mixed fruits in the bay area. they are still
                                                                                                > technically dyed, but it is in a non harmful and
                                                                                                > humane way.
                                                                                                > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > > i'm in the bay area, too, and sometimes still see
                                                                                                > > dyed glassfish and those spotted-red pink
                                                                                                > > kissing gouramis i think they're called, but
                                                                                                > that's
                                                                                                > > it i think. how many other kinds of dyed fish
                                                                                                > > were there? i'm not knowledgeable in that area but
                                                                                                > > know of just those 2.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > > just a aisde note,
                                                                                                > > > mostof the "painted tetras" in the hobby in
                                                                                                > > california
                                                                                                > > > are mixed fruit tetras. they are strawberries,
                                                                                                > > blue
                                                                                                > > > berries and apples. these fish are fed dyed
                                                                                                > foods
                                                                                                > > at
                                                                                                > > > hatching, the dye permeates the cells, and the
                                                                                                > > fish
                                                                                                > > > are unhardmed. the fish still live a normal
                                                                                                > life
                                                                                                > > span
                                                                                                > > > of several years, and retain some pigmant
                                                                                                > > throughout
                                                                                                > > > their life span. the pink become nearlyu white
                                                                                                > at
                                                                                                > > > full growth, the blue and greens fade to lighter
                                                                                                > > > colors, but they do not live any different.
                                                                                                > > injected
                                                                                                > > > fish have pretty much disappeared from the local
                                                                                                > > > markets in the bay area of california. as to
                                                                                                > other
                                                                                                > > > locations, i do not know and will not debate the
                                                                                                > > > issue.
                                                                                                > > > --- jazz <jazz001@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Why it's cruel to dye
                                                                                                > > > > Dr Stan MacMahon and Dr Peter Burgess explain
                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                > > > > damage done to fish when
                                                                                                > > > > they are barbarically injected with dye.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Some fishkeepers, and possibly even a few
                                                                                                > > traders,
                                                                                                > > > > may be puzzled as to why
                                                                                                > > > > so much fuss has been made about dyed fish. On
                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                > > > > face of it, the practice
                                                                                                > > > > of dyeing or "painting" the fish seems fairly
                                                                                                > > > > innocuous and the artificially
                                                                                                > > > > dyed specimens are certainly very eye-catching
                                                                                                > > in
                                                                                                > > > > their various "day-glo"
                                                                                                > > > > colours. So why push for a voluntary ban on
                                                                                                > > selling
                                                                                                > > > > them? Our investigations
                                                                                                > > > > have revealed the truth behind the dyed fish
                                                                                                > > saga.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Disco fish
                                                                                                > > > > Our first encounter with dyed fish was back in
                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                > > > > late 1980's. Thousands of
                                                                                                > > > > artificially coloured glassfish, Parambassis
                                                                                                > > ranga
                                                                                                > > > > (formerly Chanda ranga)
                                                                                                > > > > were imported into the UK.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > The glassfish, so named because of its
                                                                                                > naturally
                                                                                                > > > > semi-transparent body,
                                                                                                > > > > obviously makes it an ideal subject for
                                                                                                > > "painting".
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > They were seen with fluorescent shades of
                                                                                                > either
                                                                                                > > > > blue, purple, red, yellow,
                                                                                                > > > > orange or green produced by dyes.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > They were (and still are) imported under the
                                                                                                > > names
                                                                                                > > > > "painted glassfish" or
                                                                                                > > > > "disco fish" (presumably because their almost
                                                                                                > > > > fluorescent colours resemble
                                                                                                > > > > discotheque lights).
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > How is the dye applied?
                                                                                                > > > > Intrigued as to how the dye was applied we
                                                                                                > > decided
                                                                                                > > > > to carry out a little
                                                                                                > > > > research. A few coloured glassfish were
                                                                                                > sedated
                                                                                                > > in
                                                                                                > > > > MS222 anaesthetic and
                                                                                                > > > > observed under a binocular microscope. It
                                                                                                > became
                                                                                                > > > > apparent that the dye is
                                                                                                > > > > not on the surface of the fish, but lay under
                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                > > > > epidermis.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Furthermore, the dye appeared fluid and could
                                                                                                > be
                                                                                                > > > > moved slightly by gently
                                                                                                > > > > squeezing the coloured area.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > This suggested that it must have been injected
                                                                                                > > into
                                                                                                > > > > the fish at various
                                                                                                > > > > sites over the body in order to form the
                                                                                                > > distinctive
                                                                                                > > > > colour patterns. Our
                                                                                                > > > > fears were confirmed a few years later when we
                                                                                                > > were
                                                                                                > > > > shown photographs of the
                                                                                                > > > > colouring process, revealing that each fish is
                                                                                                > > > > individually injected using a
                                                                                                > > > > syringe and needle.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > The practice of dye injection is undertaken by
                                                                                                > > fish
                                                                                                > > > > farmers in some regions
                                                                                                > > > > of Asia (but not Singapore as far as we know).
                                                                                                > > > > Clearly, the common name
                                                                                                > > > > "painted glassfish" is a cruelly misleading
                                                                                                > > > > description.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > If one considers the relative bore size of the
                                                                                                > > > > injection needle with that of
                                                                                                > > > > a glassfish, it would be the equivalent of us
                                                                                                > > > > receiving several jabs using a
                                                                                                > > > > needle of pencil-sized diameter - not a
                                                                                                > pleasant
                                                                                                > > > > thought.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > As experienced fish scientists, we would never
                                                                                                > > dream
                                                                                                > > > > of injecting fish of
                                                                                                > > > > such small size. No wonder the injection
                                                                                                > process
                                                                                                > > is
                                                                                                > > > > alleged to cause high
                                                                                                > > > > mortalities.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Increasing the risk of disease...
                                                                                                > > > > A survey which we carried out in the south of
                                                                                                > > > > England revealed that over 40%
                                                                                                > > > > of painted glassfish appeared to be suffering
                                                                                                > > from
                                                                                                > > > > lymphocystis virus. This
                                                                                                > > > > disease manifests itself as a small whitish
                                                                                                > > growths
                                                                                                > > > > on the fish's body and
                                                                                                > > > > fins.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > An examination of the white growths under the
                                                                                                > > > > powerful electron microscope
                                                                                                > > > > confirmed our diagnosis. In contrast, less
                                                                                                > than
                                                                                                > > 10%
                                                                                                > > > > of the natural
                                                                                                > > > > (unpainted) glassfish had lymphocystis.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > It is possible that the injection process
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                === message truncated ===




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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9518 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
                                                                                                    Exactly.  Great points.  It took early agriculturalists centuries, or longer, to genetically modify cattle and grains to the point that they could sustain civilization without having to hunt for food all the time.  Now we can genetically modify rice to grow in any condition to feed every person in Africa in a few months, but extremists would rather let them all starve to death.  All of it is this fear of technology, and the belief that humans are bad, so any technology we develop to help ourselves (or even nature, in the case of glofish) continue to survive is bad.  People forget, glofish were made to detect pollution before it wiped out an ecosystem.  When you buy one of these fish, it goes to the company that helps find pollution.  If anything, environmentalists should be happy about them.
                                                                                                    Could you imagine how a kid would feel if the gene his family had for centuries that caused a certain disease, sickle-cell for example, was changed and the kids at school were allowed to call him names, and even encouraged by teachers, because he had been messed with and was no longer human?
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                Patrick
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT people!
                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9519 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -

                                                                                                We all have to learn some way. I don't know every thing there is to know my self. Is it better to add salt made for fish tanks that pet shop carrie? I am dumb too at alot of things too. That is why I joined this group, so that I could learn more about taking care of my fish. I don't think your dumb Stacy, I really think your very smart at alot of things. Like me, fish are new to you.

                                                                                                    I have alot to learn about alot of things myself.

                                                                                                                      Lorie

                                                                                                 


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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9520 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: question about mollies
                                                                                                what do you actually mean "still born" sorry i seem
                                                                                                dumb but i didnt quite understand it..sorry for my
                                                                                                stupidness!
                                                                                                Nigel
                                                                                                --- m senter <msenter@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > I hope you can answer this but how common is it
                                                                                                > that a molly gives birth to
                                                                                                > all still born fish. Is this some thing i need to be
                                                                                                > worried about with this
                                                                                                > or should i just give up hope with this fish.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > melissa

                                                                                                Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9521 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
                                                                                                good point pat. did you know the glofish are illegal
                                                                                                in CA?
                                                                                                they were only sold for a few months here
                                                                                                --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > Exactly. Great points. It took early
                                                                                                > agriculturalists centuries, or
                                                                                                > longer, to genetically modify cattle and grains to
                                                                                                > the point that they could
                                                                                                > sustain civilization without having to hunt for food
                                                                                                > all the time. Now we
                                                                                                > can genetically modify rice to grow in any condition
                                                                                                > to feed every person in
                                                                                                > Africa in a few months, but extremists would rather
                                                                                                > let them all starve to
                                                                                                > death. All of it is this fear of technology, and
                                                                                                > the belief that humans are
                                                                                                > bad, so any technology we develop to help ourselves
                                                                                                > (or even nature, in the
                                                                                                > case of glofish) continue to survive is bad. People
                                                                                                > forget, glofish were
                                                                                                > made to detect pollution before it wiped out an
                                                                                                > ecosystem. When you buy one
                                                                                                > of these fish, it goes to the company that helps
                                                                                                > find pollution. If
                                                                                                > anything, environmentalists should be happy about
                                                                                                > them.
                                                                                                > Could you imagine how a kid would feel if the
                                                                                                > gene his family had for
                                                                                                > centuries that caused a certain disease, sickle-cell
                                                                                                > for example, was
                                                                                                > changed and the kids at school were allowed to call
                                                                                                > him names, and even
                                                                                                > encouraged by teachers, because he had been messed
                                                                                                > with and was no longer
                                                                                                > human?
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Patrick
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                > GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT people!



                                                                                                __________________________________
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                                                                                                Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                                http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9522 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
                                                                                                yeah the striped ones are injected in a factory
                                                                                                setting.

                                                                                                --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:

                                                                                                > unfortunately the dyed glass fish i've seen must be
                                                                                                > the injected ones because they have the
                                                                                                > florescent stripes down their backs, not elsewhere
                                                                                                > on their bodies.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > and the gourami i was mistaken on the name, it's
                                                                                                > actually a polka-dot gourami. and i've seen them
                                                                                                > all over the bay -- on the peninsula and in the
                                                                                                > city.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > > the "dyed glass fish" are dyed with food, not acid
                                                                                                > > bathed and dyed with coloring anymore. there are
                                                                                                > > still some injected ones with the neon stripe down
                                                                                                > > their backs, but for the most part you will find
                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                > > mixed fruits in the bay area. they are still
                                                                                                > > technically dyed, but it is in a non harmful and
                                                                                                > > humane way.
                                                                                                > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > > i'm in the bay area, too, and sometimes still
                                                                                                > see
                                                                                                > > > dyed glassfish and those spotted-red pink
                                                                                                > > > kissing gouramis i think they're called, but
                                                                                                > that's
                                                                                                > > > it i think. how many other kinds of dyed fish
                                                                                                > > > were there? i'm not knowledgeable in that area
                                                                                                > but
                                                                                                > > > know of just those 2.
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > > just a aisde note,
                                                                                                > > > > mostof the "painted tetras" in the hobby in
                                                                                                > > > california
                                                                                                > > > > are mixed fruit tetras. they are
                                                                                                > strawberries,
                                                                                                > > > blue
                                                                                                > > > > berries and apples. these fish are fed dyed
                                                                                                > foods
                                                                                                > > > at
                                                                                                > > > > hatching, the dye permeates the cells, and the
                                                                                                > > > fish
                                                                                                > > > > are unhardmed. the fish still live a normal
                                                                                                > life
                                                                                                > > > span
                                                                                                > > > > of several years, and retain some pigmant
                                                                                                > > > throughout
                                                                                                > > > > their life span. the pink become nearlyu
                                                                                                > white at
                                                                                                > > > > full growth, the blue and greens fade to
                                                                                                > lighter
                                                                                                > > > > colors, but they do not live any different.
                                                                                                > > > injected
                                                                                                > > > > fish have pretty much disappeared from the
                                                                                                > local
                                                                                                > > > > markets in the bay area of california. as to
                                                                                                > other
                                                                                                > > > > locations, i do not know and will not debate
                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                > > > > issue.
                                                                                                > > > > --- jazz <jazz001@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > > Why it's cruel to dye
                                                                                                > > > > > Dr Stan MacMahon and Dr Peter Burgess
                                                                                                > explain
                                                                                                > > > the
                                                                                                > > > > > damage done to fish when
                                                                                                > > > > > they are barbarically injected with dye.
                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > > Some fishkeepers, and possibly even a few
                                                                                                > > > traders,
                                                                                                > > > > > may be puzzled as to why
                                                                                                > > > > > so much fuss has been made about dyed fish.
                                                                                                > On
                                                                                                > > > the
                                                                                                > > > > > face of it, the practice
                                                                                                > > > > > of dyeing or "painting" the fish seems
                                                                                                > fairly
                                                                                                > > > > > innocuous and the artificially
                                                                                                > > > > > dyed specimens are certainly very
                                                                                                > eye-catching
                                                                                                > > > in
                                                                                                > > > > > their various "day-glo"
                                                                                                > > > > > colours. So why push for a voluntary ban on
                                                                                                > > > selling
                                                                                                > > > > > them? Our investigations
                                                                                                > > > > > have revealed the truth behind the dyed fish
                                                                                                > > > saga.
                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > > Disco fish
                                                                                                > > > > > Our first encounter with dyed fish was back
                                                                                                > in
                                                                                                > > > the
                                                                                                > > > > > late 1980's. Thousands of
                                                                                                > > > > > artificially coloured glassfish, Parambassis
                                                                                                > > > ranga
                                                                                                > > > > > (formerly Chanda ranga)
                                                                                                > > > > > were imported into the UK.
                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > > The glassfish, so named because of its
                                                                                                > naturally
                                                                                                > > > > > semi-transparent body,
                                                                                                > > > > > obviously makes it an ideal subject for
                                                                                                > > > "painting".
                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > > They were seen with fluorescent shades of
                                                                                                > either
                                                                                                > > > > > blue, purple, red, yellow,
                                                                                                > > > > > orange or green produced by dyes.
                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > > They were (and still are) imported under the
                                                                                                > > > names
                                                                                                > > > > > "painted glassfish" or
                                                                                                > > > > > "disco fish" (presumably because their
                                                                                                > almost
                                                                                                > > > > > fluorescent colours resemble
                                                                                                > > > > > discotheque lights).
                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > > How is the dye applied?
                                                                                                > > > > > Intrigued as to how the dye was applied we
                                                                                                > > > decided
                                                                                                > > > > > to carry out a little
                                                                                                > > > > > research. A few coloured glassfish were
                                                                                                > sedated
                                                                                                > > > in
                                                                                                > > > > > MS222 anaesthetic and
                                                                                                > > > > > observed under a binocular microscope. It
                                                                                                > became
                                                                                                > > > > > apparent that the dye is
                                                                                                > > > > > not on the surface of the fish, but lay
                                                                                                > under
                                                                                                > > > the
                                                                                                > > > > > epidermis.
                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > > Furthermore, the dye appeared fluid and
                                                                                                > could be
                                                                                                > > > > > moved slightly by gently
                                                                                                > > > > > squeezing the coloured area.
                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > > This suggested that it must have been
                                                                                                > injected
                                                                                                > > > into
                                                                                                > > > > > the fish at various
                                                                                                > > > > > sites over the body in order to form the
                                                                                                > > > distinctive
                                                                                                > > > > > colour patterns. Our
                                                                                                > > > > > fears were confirmed a few years later when
                                                                                                > we
                                                                                                > > > were
                                                                                                > > > > > shown photographs of the
                                                                                                > > > > > colouring process, revealing that each fish
                                                                                                > is
                                                                                                > > > > > individually injected using a
                                                                                                > > > > > syringe and needle.
                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > > The practice of dye injection is undertaken
                                                                                                > by
                                                                                                > > > fish
                                                                                                > > > > > farmers in some regions
                                                                                                > > > > > of Asia (but not Singapore as far as we
                                                                                                > know).
                                                                                                > > > > > Clearly, the common name
                                                                                                > > > > > "painted glassfish" is a cruelly misleading
                                                                                                > > > > > description.
                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > > If one considers the relative bore size of
                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                > > > > > injection needle with that of
                                                                                                > > > > > a glassfish, it would be the equivalent of
                                                                                                > us
                                                                                                > > > > > receiving several jabs using a
                                                                                                > > > > > needle of pencil-sized diameter - not a
                                                                                                > pleasant
                                                                                                > > > > > thought.
                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > > As experienced fish scientists, we would
                                                                                                > never
                                                                                                > > > dream
                                                                                                > > > > > of injecting fish of
                                                                                                > > > > > such small size. No wonder the injection
                                                                                                > process
                                                                                                > > > is
                                                                                                > > > > > alleged to cause high
                                                                                                > > > > > mortalities.
                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > > Increasing the risk of disease...
                                                                                                > > > > > A survey which we carried out in the south
                                                                                                > of
                                                                                                > > > > > England revealed that over 40%
                                                                                                > > > > > of painted glassfish appeared to be
                                                                                                > suffering
                                                                                                > > > from
                                                                                                > > > > > lymphocystis virus. This
                                                                                                > > > > > disease manifests itself as a small whitish
                                                                                                > > > growths
                                                                                                > > > > > on the fish's body and
                                                                                                > > > > > fins.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                === message truncated ===




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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9523 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
                                                                                                Thanks paul

                                                                                                i really appreciate it! not seeing each other face to
                                                                                                face and not even our gestures just by writing can be
                                                                                                very misleading and very often what starts as a small
                                                                                                discussion ends up in a massive battleship game!!

                                                                                                Happy fishkeeping to all and breeding and everything
                                                                                                concerned with fish!!

                                                                                                --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                ---------------------------------
                                                                                                nice way to post nigel...this group easily gets
                                                                                                carried away, i used to get that way mysellf on here
                                                                                                as we had a few that refused to be wrong in the past,
                                                                                                so i know what you mean.
                                                                                                paul
                                                                                                --- Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@...> wrote:

                                                                                                > hi
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > yes yes you are totally right paul it is much better
                                                                                                > now than it was in the past! well i dont mind having
                                                                                                > people having different after all what would be the
                                                                                                > world if everyone thought the same and everyone
                                                                                                > agreed
                                                                                                > on everything! In my simple opinion for me a fish is
                                                                                                > nice as nature actually created it, hybrids like
                                                                                                > parrots always occur in nature some actually survive
                                                                                                > well like the parrots other's dont actually i think
                                                                                                > nature knows how to take care of itself more than we
                                                                                                > do! :P
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Just one final thing about everything what happened
                                                                                                > about the argument well jazz might have switched on
                                                                                                > the fire a bit badly but hell we burnt a whole
                                                                                                > forest
                                                                                                > then!! :P :P no offense to noone please! i am just
                                                                                                > saying what i feel in a very humoristic manner!
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Nigel
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                > the "dyed glass fish" are dyed with food, not acid
                                                                                                > bathed and dyed with coloring anymore. there are
                                                                                                > still some injected ones with the neon stripe down
                                                                                                > their backs, but for the most part you will find the
                                                                                                > mixed fruits in the bay area. they are still
                                                                                                > technically dyed, but it is in a non harmful and
                                                                                                > humane way.
                                                                                                > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > > i'm in the bay area, too, and sometimes still see
                                                                                                > > dyed glassfish and those spotted-red pink
                                                                                                > > kissing gouramis i think they're called, but
                                                                                                > that's
                                                                                                > > it i think. how many other kinds of dyed fish
                                                                                                > > were there? i'm not knowledgeable in that area but
                                                                                                > > know of just those 2.
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > > just a aisde note,
                                                                                                > > > mostof the "painted tetras" in the hobby in
                                                                                                > > california
                                                                                                > > > are mixed fruit tetras. they are strawberries,
                                                                                                > > blue
                                                                                                > > > berries and apples. these fish are fed dyed
                                                                                                > foods
                                                                                                > > at
                                                                                                > > > hatching, the dye permeates the cells, and the
                                                                                                > > fish
                                                                                                > > > are unhardmed. the fish still live a normal
                                                                                                > life
                                                                                                > > span
                                                                                                > > > of several years, and retain some pigmant
                                                                                                > > throughout
                                                                                                > > > their life span. the pink become nearlyu white
                                                                                                > at
                                                                                                > > > full growth, the blue and greens fade to lighter
                                                                                                > > > colors, but they do not live any different.
                                                                                                > > injected
                                                                                                > > > fish have pretty much disappeared from the local
                                                                                                > > > markets in the bay area of california. as to
                                                                                                > other
                                                                                                > > > locations, i do not know and will not debate the
                                                                                                > > > issue.
                                                                                                > > > --- jazz <jazz001@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Why it's cruel to dye
                                                                                                > > > > Dr Stan MacMahon and Dr Peter Burgess explain
                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                > > > > damage done to fish when
                                                                                                > > > > they are barbarically injected with dye.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Some fishkeepers, and possibly even a few
                                                                                                > > traders,
                                                                                                > > > > may be puzzled as to why
                                                                                                > > > > so much fuss has been made about dyed fish. On
                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                > > > > face of it, the practice
                                                                                                > > > > of dyeing or "painting" the fish seems fairly
                                                                                                > > > > innocuous and the artificially
                                                                                                > > > > dyed specimens are certainly very eye-catching
                                                                                                > > in
                                                                                                > > > > their various "day-glo"
                                                                                                > > > > colours. So why push for a voluntary ban on
                                                                                                > > selling
                                                                                                > > > > them? Our investigations
                                                                                                > > > > have revealed the truth behind the dyed fish
                                                                                                > > saga.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Disco fish
                                                                                                > > > > Our first encounter with dyed fish was back in
                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                > > > > late 1980's. Thousands of
                                                                                                > > > > artificially coloured glassfish, Parambassis
                                                                                                > > ranga
                                                                                                > > > > (formerly Chanda ranga)
                                                                                                > > > > were imported into the UK.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > The glassfish, so named because of its
                                                                                                > naturally
                                                                                                > > > > semi-transparent body,
                                                                                                > > > > obviously makes it an ideal subject for
                                                                                                > > "painting".
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > They were seen with fluorescent shades of
                                                                                                > either
                                                                                                > > > > blue, purple, red, yellow,
                                                                                                > > > > orange or green produced by dyes.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > They were (and still are) imported under the
                                                                                                > > names
                                                                                                > > > > "painted glassfish" or
                                                                                                > > > > "disco fish" (presumably because their almost
                                                                                                > > > > fluorescent colours resemble
                                                                                                > > > > discotheque lights).
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > How is the dye applied?
                                                                                                > > > > Intrigued as to how the dye was applied we
                                                                                                > > decided
                                                                                                > > > > to carry out a little
                                                                                                > > > > research. A few coloured glassfish were
                                                                                                > sedated
                                                                                                > > in
                                                                                                > > > > MS222 anaesthetic and
                                                                                                > > > > observed under a binocular microscope. It
                                                                                                > became
                                                                                                > > > > apparent that the dye is
                                                                                                > > > > not on the surface of the fish, but lay under
                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                > > > > epidermis.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Furthermore, the dye appeared fluid and could
                                                                                                > be
                                                                                                > > > > moved slightly by gently
                                                                                                > > > > squeezing the coloured area.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > This suggested that it must have been injected
                                                                                                > > into
                                                                                                > > > > the fish at various
                                                                                                > > > > sites over the body in order to form the
                                                                                                > > distinctive
                                                                                                > > > > colour patterns. Our
                                                                                                > > > > fears were confirmed a few years later when we
                                                                                                > > were
                                                                                                > > > > shown photographs of the
                                                                                                > > > > colouring process, revealing that each fish is
                                                                                                > > > > individually injected using a
                                                                                                > > > > syringe and needle.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > The practice of dye injection is undertaken by
                                                                                                > > fish
                                                                                                > > > > farmers in some regions
                                                                                                > > > > of Asia (but not Singapore as far as we know).
                                                                                                > > > > Clearly, the common name
                                                                                                > > > > "painted glassfish" is a cruelly misleading
                                                                                                > > > > description.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > If one considers the relative bore size of the
                                                                                                > > > > injection needle with that of
                                                                                                > > > > a glassfish, it would be the equivalent of us
                                                                                                > > > > receiving several jabs using a
                                                                                                > > > > needle of pencil-sized diameter - not a
                                                                                                > pleasant
                                                                                                > > > > thought.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > As experienced fish scientists, we would never
                                                                                                > > dream
                                                                                                > > > > of injecting fish of
                                                                                                > > > > such small size. No wonder the injection
                                                                                                > process
                                                                                                > > is
                                                                                                > > > > alleged to cause high
                                                                                                > > > > mortalities.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > Increasing the risk of disease...
                                                                                                > > > > A survey which we carried out in the south of
                                                                                                > > > > England revealed that over 40%
                                                                                                > > > > of painted glassfish appeared to be suffering
                                                                                                > > from
                                                                                                > > > > lymphocystis virus. This
                                                                                                > > > > disease manifests itself as a small whitish
                                                                                                > > growths
                                                                                                > > > > on the fish's body and
                                                                                                > > > > fins.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > An examination of the white growths under the
                                                                                                > > > > powerful electron microscope
                                                                                                > > > > confirmed our diagnosis. In contrast, less
                                                                                                > than
                                                                                                > > 10%
                                                                                                > > > > of the natural
                                                                                                > > > > (unpainted) glassfish had lymphocystis.
                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                > > > > It is possible that the injection process
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                === message truncated ===




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                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9524 From: m senter Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                Subject: Re: question about mollies
                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                   mollies are live bears and all the one she had today are dead looking. i am not doing anything with them yet waiting to make sure but they don't look good
                                                                                                  melissa
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  Date: 03/23/05 17:33:02
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] question about mollies
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  what do you actually mean "still born" sorry i seem
                                                                                                  dumb but i didnt quite understand it..sorry for my
                                                                                                  stupidness!
                                                                                                  Nigel
                                                                                                  --- m senter <msenter@indy.rr.com> wrote:
                                                                                                  >  I hope you can answer this but how common is it
                                                                                                  > that a molly gives birth to
                                                                                                  > all still born fish. Is this some thing i need to be
                                                                                                  > worried about with this
                                                                                                  > or should i just give up hope with this fish.
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > melissa

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                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9525 From: Lorie Melburn Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: The only dumb question is the one not asked...
                                                                                                  Do you have the fish tank near a window where the sun can shine on it? I had that promblem with my tank because where I had it located. If it is near a window where it gets sun, that may be why you are getting the algie. I use one of those algie remover things with the sponge on it. I got mine fron Wal-Mart. It really works good at getting all the algie off. If you can move your tank away from where it gets sun light, that would help alot. I keep my tank lights on for about 10 hours. Hope this helps you.
                                                                                                         Maybe someone else can also help with this question. I am also open for ideas on how to cut down on algie in the tank. I agree that there is no such thing as a dumb question. It's the only way to learn, is by asking a question.
                                                                                                                             Lorie              


                                                                                                    
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  This is a group for those with all kinds of pets, to come and share pictures and stories.
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  This a group for those who love to come and talk about their nandays. To share stories, information, and photos.


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                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9526 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: ~ JAZ
                                                                                                      Many people have bought them on impulse, I think Nim was making the point that Jazz made a very broad claim against anybody with a BP in their possession, and didn't seem to even know what he was talking about.
                                                                                                      I think what you have done is great, and as a person who refuses to be a "hobbyist" (my fish are not a hobby), you did a good thing for those fish.
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  Patrick
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                  I did not BUY these fish.  Not by accident, not because of an impulse, not at all.  I. Did. Not. Buy. These. Fish.

                                                                                                  So really, if there aren’t going to be anymore posts for HELP, then don’t post at all regarding these Blood Parrots.

                                                                                                  I found my answers elsewhere so there really is no need to keep this up.

                                                                                                  Did I mention that I didn’t buy these fish? =)  =P  =)

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                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9527 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
                                                                                                  i tried to get some when i was in oregon visiting my parents and they don't even sell them near
                                                                                                  their house (in eugene) anymore. i'm not sure why, but maybe their novelty has worn off?

                                                                                                  --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                  > good point pat. did you know the glofish are illegal
                                                                                                  > in CA?
                                                                                                  > they were only sold for a few months here
                                                                                                  > --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                  > <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                  > > Exactly. Great points. It took early
                                                                                                  > > agriculturalists centuries, or
                                                                                                  > > longer, to genetically modify cattle and grains to
                                                                                                  > > the point that they could
                                                                                                  > > sustain civilization without having to hunt for food
                                                                                                  > > all the time. Now we
                                                                                                  > > can genetically modify rice to grow in any condition
                                                                                                  > > to feed every person in
                                                                                                  > > Africa in a few months, but extremists would rather
                                                                                                  > > let them all starve to
                                                                                                  > > death. All of it is this fear of technology, and
                                                                                                  > > the belief that humans are
                                                                                                  > > bad, so any technology we develop to help ourselves
                                                                                                  > > (or even nature, in the
                                                                                                  > > case of glofish) continue to survive is bad. People
                                                                                                  > > forget, glofish were
                                                                                                  > > made to detect pollution before it wiped out an
                                                                                                  > > ecosystem. When you buy one
                                                                                                  > > of these fish, it goes to the company that helps
                                                                                                  > > find pollution. If
                                                                                                  > > anything, environmentalists should be happy about
                                                                                                  > > them.
                                                                                                  > > Could you imagine how a kid would feel if the
                                                                                                  > > gene his family had for
                                                                                                  > > centuries that caused a certain disease, sickle-cell
                                                                                                  > > for example, was
                                                                                                  > > changed and the kids at school were allowed to call
                                                                                                  > > him names, and even
                                                                                                  > > encouraged by teachers, because he had been messed
                                                                                                  > > with and was no longer
                                                                                                  > > human?
                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                  > > Patrick
                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                  > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                  > > GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT people!
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9528 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: question about mollies
                                                                                                  Use liquid fry as it could be that that were premature
                                                                                                  and so are still very tiny i dont think that they will
                                                                                                  survive though! mollies sometimes do that especially
                                                                                                  when being stressed out!

                                                                                                  Nigel

                                                                                                  --- m senter <msenter@...> wrote:
                                                                                                  > mollies are live bears and all the one she had
                                                                                                  > today are dead looking. i am
                                                                                                  > not doing anything with them yet waiting to make
                                                                                                  > sure but they don't look
                                                                                                  > good
                                                                                                  > melissa
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                  > Date: 03/23/05 17:33:02
                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                  > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] question about mollies
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > what do you actually mean "still born" sorry i seem
                                                                                                  > dumb but i didnt quite understand it..sorry for my
                                                                                                  > stupidness!
                                                                                                  > Nigel
                                                                                                  > --- m senter <msenter@...> wrote:
                                                                                                  > > I hope you can answer this but how common is it
                                                                                                  > > that a molly gives birth to
                                                                                                  > > all still born fish. Is this some thing i need to
                                                                                                  > be
                                                                                                  > > worried about with this
                                                                                                  > > or should i just give up hope with this fish.
                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                  > > melissa
                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9529 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Help! ASAP
                                                                                                      You haven't seen any bullying on this group.  A few broad statements or misspeaking, even the occasionally light name calling, but believe me, no bullying.  I have seen it, and it is not good.  I'm not saying anger should be encouraged, but this has not reached bullying yet. :)
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  Patrick
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                  I believe some members of this group really need to watch the tone of their emails and be careful about talking down to other members for lack of same opinions.. This group by far has more drama and more overheated opinionated members that need to really relax... everyone is allowed to have their opinions and post and shouldn't have to fear a nasty rebuttal from anyone...soon what will be created in ppl scared to post.. I know cause I have often felt this way.. bullying shouldn't not be accepted in any manor... Its really sad cause there are so many good ppl here but they all get overshadowed by a few... Shannon
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                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9530 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Discus
                                                                                                  Hi Guys

                                                                                                  By any chance what would be in your opinion the best
                                                                                                  display set up for Discus they are still juveniles! i
                                                                                                  have a cobalt blue pair a turqoise pair and marble red
                                                                                                  pair??
                                                                                                  I am open for ideas so jump on pls! i need ideas!!
                                                                                                  THANKS ALOT

                                                                                                  Nigel

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                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9531 From: Loie Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Discus
                                                                                                  Yes plz jump in, I have a 75 gal. cycling right now. Hoping to have discus in it. I need the info also. Thank you in advance for the info!!!!!
                                                                                                   Lois
                                                                                                  Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@...> wrote:
                                                                                                  Hi Guys

                                                                                                  By any chance what would be in your opinion the best
                                                                                                  display set up for Discus they are still juveniles! i
                                                                                                  have a cobalt blue pair a turqoise pair and marble red
                                                                                                  pair??
                                                                                                  I am open for ideas so jump on pls! i need ideas!!
                                                                                                  THANKS ALOT

                                                                                                  Nigel

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                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9532 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Discus

                                                                                                  Nigel,

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  Since they are Juveniles at the moment so you have an opportunity that I believe to acclimatize them to a little moderately hard neutral water. What are your water parameters in terms of PH, KH, GH and Nitrates? Do you have/plan a RO unit?

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  Minimum would be a 55gal setup with a good planted substrate and loads of Amazonian plants with moderate to good lighting (depends on plants). What is your current setup that you have or are you planning everything from scratch?

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  Nim

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                   


                                                                                                  From: Nigel Chetcuti [mailto:nigelchetcuti@...]
                                                                                                  Sent: 23 March 2005 22:59
                                                                                                  To: Aquatic life; buzaqq; fish corner
                                                                                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Discus

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  Hi Guys

                                                                                                  By any chance what would be in your opinion the best
                                                                                                  display set up for Discus they are still juveniles! i
                                                                                                  have a cobalt blue pair a turqoise pair and marble red
                                                                                                  pair??
                                                                                                  I am open for ideas so jump on pls! i need ideas!!
                                                                                                  THANKS ALOT

                                                                                                  Nigel

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                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9533 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Discus
                                                                                                  i would reccomed getting a tank that is high as well
                                                                                                  as long. discus do not need a large amount of room as
                                                                                                  far as length goes, but do love tall polants and like
                                                                                                  to be able to move up and down in the tank due to
                                                                                                  their shape. i always like a more natural tank, so i
                                                                                                  recommend using natural substrate. you can often find
                                                                                                  "pebble beach sand" produced by rmc lonestar. it is
                                                                                                  sold in 50lb bags for home use at hardware stores like
                                                                                                  home depot etc. it is a finer gravel than most
                                                                                                  aquarium gravel, but is 100% natural and is still
                                                                                                  rocks, not sand.
                                                                                                  --- Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@...> wrote:
                                                                                                  > Hi Guys
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > By any chance what would be in your opinion the best
                                                                                                  > display set up for Discus they are still juveniles!
                                                                                                  > i
                                                                                                  > have a cobalt blue pair a turqoise pair and marble
                                                                                                  > red
                                                                                                  > pair??
                                                                                                  > I am open for ideas so jump on pls! i need ideas!!
                                                                                                  > THANKS ALOT
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > Nigel
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > Send instant messages to your online friends
                                                                                                  > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                                  >



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                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9534 From: paul helms Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
                                                                                                  they were banned in california before most stores
                                                                                                  could even get in their first shipments.
                                                                                                  --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                  > i tried to get some when i was in oregon visiting my
                                                                                                  > parents and they don't even sell them near
                                                                                                  > their house (in eugene) anymore. i'm not sure why,
                                                                                                  > but maybe their novelty has worn off?
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > > good point pat. did you know the glofish are
                                                                                                  > illegal
                                                                                                  > > in CA?
                                                                                                  > > they were only sold for a few months here
                                                                                                  > > --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                  > > <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                  > > > Exactly. Great points. It took early
                                                                                                  > > > agriculturalists centuries, or
                                                                                                  > > > longer, to genetically modify cattle and grains
                                                                                                  > to
                                                                                                  > > > the point that they could
                                                                                                  > > > sustain civilization without having to hunt for
                                                                                                  > food
                                                                                                  > > > all the time. Now we
                                                                                                  > > > can genetically modify rice to grow in any
                                                                                                  > condition
                                                                                                  > > > to feed every person in
                                                                                                  > > > Africa in a few months, but extremists would
                                                                                                  > rather
                                                                                                  > > > let them all starve to
                                                                                                  > > > death. All of it is this fear of technology,
                                                                                                  > and
                                                                                                  > > > the belief that humans are
                                                                                                  > > > bad, so any technology we develop to help
                                                                                                  > ourselves
                                                                                                  > > > (or even nature, in the
                                                                                                  > > > case of glofish) continue to survive is bad.
                                                                                                  > People
                                                                                                  > > > forget, glofish were
                                                                                                  > > > made to detect pollution before it wiped out an
                                                                                                  > > > ecosystem. When you buy one
                                                                                                  > > > of these fish, it goes to the company that helps
                                                                                                  > > > find pollution. If
                                                                                                  > > > anything, environmentalists should be happy
                                                                                                  > about
                                                                                                  > > > them.
                                                                                                  > > > Could you imagine how a kid would feel if
                                                                                                  > the
                                                                                                  > > > gene his family had for
                                                                                                  > > > centuries that caused a certain disease,
                                                                                                  > sickle-cell
                                                                                                  > > > for example, was
                                                                                                  > > > changed and the kids at school were allowed to
                                                                                                  > call
                                                                                                  > > > him names, and even
                                                                                                  > > > encouraged by teachers, because he had been
                                                                                                  > messed
                                                                                                  > > > with and was no longer
                                                                                                  > > > human?
                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                  > > > Patrick
                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                  > > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                  > > > GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT people!
                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                  > > __________________________________
                                                                                                  > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                  > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources
                                                                                                  > site!
                                                                                                  > > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  >



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                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9535 From: Steve Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
                                                                                                  Stacey,

                                                                                                  Actually, it is not so much salt that they need, but a hard alkaline water.
                                                                                                  The mollies and guppies you find in shops are countless generations removed
                                                                                                  from nature, have been hybridized and bred for certain characteristics, that
                                                                                                  they will live their lives out without seeing a grain of salt, with no ill
                                                                                                  effects. The addition of salt can help bring up the hardness of the water,
                                                                                                  and may slightly affect the pH, but it should not b considered a necessity.

                                                                                                  Now, if you were to get some mollies from the wild (maybe collect some on a
                                                                                                  trip to Florida), then the details of water quality would need to be paid
                                                                                                  attention to.

                                                                                                  In the wild, you can find mollies in fresh water and in brackish water. Some
                                                                                                  species can even be found in a marine environment from time to time. There
                                                                                                  are mollies that never see any salt in the wild through their entire life.
                                                                                                  Guppies are a bit different. They prefer the water to be on the hard side,
                                                                                                  with a higher pH. Very seldom are they found in water that could be
                                                                                                  considered brackish, and I have not seen any accounts of them being found in
                                                                                                  a marine environment.

                                                                                                  As you progress in this hobby, you'll find that there are myths that are
                                                                                                  perpetuated in the literature, by other aquarists, and, now, on the
                                                                                                  Internet. You will learn to look at everything with a critical eye.
                                                                                                  Depending on how hooked you get, you may even set up tanks to experiment
                                                                                                  with different conditions for the same fish.

                                                                                                  \\Steve//

                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                  From: Stacey Mallow [mailto:krazy4mypets@...]
                                                                                                  Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 9:36 AM
                                                                                                  To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] curosity of Why I -


                                                                                                  Okay~
                                                                                                  I am going to fullfill everyone's curiosity. The reason I added the Salt is
                                                                                                  because I have Mollies and Guppies only in the tank. I was reading that
                                                                                                  these fish need some salt. I am new at this hobby so I am not offended of
                                                                                                  what is being said. I have already changed about 80% of the water. I guess
                                                                                                  you may consider me as the "DUMMY"for fish hobby.(HA!HA!)
                                                                                                  Stacey




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                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9536 From: A J Myers Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Pleco problems
                                                                                                  My pleco has holes in his fins. Everything tests fine. This is my
                                                                                                  last fish, please help!

                                                                                                  *A J*
                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9537 From: Rosaholic Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: The only dumb question is the one not asked...
                                                                                                  The aquarium is on an inner wall of the house, facing the living room window.  No sun ever hits it, but the room is always nice and bright from the big living room window, and beveled/stained glass door.
                                                                                                  --
                                                                                                  Chat with you later,
                                                                                                  Alan
                                                                                                  --
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                                                                                                  Lorie Melburn wrote:
                                                                                                  Do you have the fish tank near a window where the sun can shine on it? I had that promblem with my tank because where I had it located. If it is near a window where it gets sun, that may be why you are getting the algie. I use one of those algie remover things with the sponge on it. I got mine fron Wal-Mart. It really works good at getting all the algie off. If you can move your tank away from where it gets sun light, that would help alot. I keep my tank lights on for about 10 hours. Hope this helps you.
                                                                                                         Maybe someone else can also help with this question. I am also open for ideas on how to cut down on algie in the tank. I agree that there is no such thing as a dumb question. It's the only way to learn, is by asking a question.
                                                                                                                             Lorie              


                                                                                                    
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  This is a group for those with all kinds of pets, to come and share pictures and stories.
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  This a group for those who love to come and talk about their nandays. To share stories, information, and photos.


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                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9538 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting, 4/2/2005, 6:30 pm
                                                                                                  Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                  Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting

                                                                                                  Saturday April 2, 2005
                                                                                                  6:30 pm - 8:30 pm
                                                                                                  This event repeats on the first Saturday of every month.
                                                                                                  The next reminder for this event will be sent in 7 days, 3 minutes.

                                                                                                  Event Location: MEETING LOCATION: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Ave., San Jose CA, USA
                                                                                                  Street: MEETING LOCATION: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Ave.
                                                                                                  City, State, Zip: San Jose, CA

                                                                                                  Notes:
                                                                                                  Silicon Valley Aquarium Society meetings are held the first Saturday of every month in San Jose. See http://www.svas.info for more information

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                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9539 From: mbyoung74 Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: bathtub as tank
                                                                                                  I am interested in turning an old bathtub into a tank for fish.

                                                                                                  The bathtub is existing in a bathroom with plumbing. The tub is not
                                                                                                  used, so I am looking into turning it into a tank for fish. Although
                                                                                                  before subjecting some little fish friends to an unhealthy environment
                                                                                                  I'd like to know if anyone has done this or what I would need to
                                                                                                  provide for the fish and any suggestions as to what type of fish might
                                                                                                  be suited for this sort of environment. I was thinking some sort of
                                                                                                  carp or goldfish.

                                                                                                  I would love any info that you have to throw my way.

                                                                                                  Thanks!
                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9540 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
                                                                                                      I have heard that the ones with the ink injected are done in huts, not factories, by people who really don't know what they are doing.  These are Asians living in places like Thailand that are just trying to stay alive.  That was from somebody that said he knew people who visited these places.  They use the same needles for thousands of fish, so every disease is passed along.  Of course, I don't trust that person very much, so it may be another "fish story".
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  Patrick
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                  yeah the striped ones are injected in a factory
                                                                                                  setting.
                                                                                                  Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9541 From: Loie Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Discus
                                                                                                  I have white silica sand as the substrate, getting plants in there gradually, amazons, (still looking for that java moss) running (2) magnum 350 filters, have two 55W bulb 10000K & two 55W bulb actinic blue light fixture.
                                                                                                  Currently have 3 platties, 1 spotted . and 2 reg. plecos, and 2 angels in there.
                                                                                                  started out with 25 gallons of water from my 55 gal. when I did a  water change , and the rest tap water. its 5 weeks old. Everything , all the parms. check out,  the water is on the hard side tho.
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  The 55 gal. is all cycled, and everyone that lives there are very happy.
                                                                                                  Same platties that cycled the 55, are the same that are in the 75, very hardy fish!!!!  

                                                                                                  paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                  i would reccomed getting a tank that is high as well
                                                                                                  as long.  discus do not need a large amount of room as
                                                                                                  far as length goes, but do love tall polants and like
                                                                                                  to be able to move up and down in the tank due to
                                                                                                  their shape.  i always like a more natural tank, so i
                                                                                                  recommend using natural substrate.  you can often find
                                                                                                  "pebble beach sand" produced by rmc lonestar.  it is
                                                                                                  sold in 50lb bags for home use at hardware stores like
                                                                                                  home depot etc.  it is a finer gravel than most
                                                                                                  aquarium gravel, but is 100% natural and is still
                                                                                                  rocks, not sand.
                                                                                                  --- Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@...> wrote:
                                                                                                  > Hi Guys
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > By any chance what would be in your opinion the best
                                                                                                  > display set up for Discus they are still juveniles!
                                                                                                  > i
                                                                                                  > have a cobalt blue pair a turqoise pair and marble
                                                                                                  > red
                                                                                                  > pair??
                                                                                                  > I am open for ideas so jump on pls! i need ideas!!
                                                                                                  > THANKS ALOT
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > Nigel
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > Send instant messages to your online friends
                                                                                                  > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                                  >


                                                                                                             
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                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9542 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Southern California Killi Club, 3/26/2005, 7:00 pm
                                                                                                  Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                                                                                                  Southern California Killi Club

                                                                                                  Saturday March 26, 2005
                                                                                                  7:00 pm - 8:00 pm
                                                                                                  This event repeats on the last Saturday of every month.

                                                                                                  Event Location: Seal Beach
                                                                                                  Notes:
                                                                                                  http://home.earthlink.net/~mmills/

                                                                                                  Meeting are usually the 4th Saturday of the month and at 7:00 P.M. Currently meetings are in Seal Beach, with members coming from Ventura Co., Lancaster,
                                                                                                  & San Diego

                                                                                                  For information about meetings call:

                                                                                                  Mike Mills at (818) 991-3896 in the Thousand Oaks area

                                                                                                  Bill Grieb at (310) 454-2100 in the Westside of L.A.

                                                                                                  or Sandy Binder (562) 596-3519 in the Seal Beach area

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                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9543 From: Steve Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: The only dumb question is the one not asked...
                                                                                                  Algae needs two things to grow, food and light.

                                                                                                  You mentioned in a follow-up post that you have approximately 4.5 watts per
                                                                                                  gallon, and that the room is light. Cutting down on the amount of light
                                                                                                  would be a first step, and you have already started in that direction. You
                                                                                                  might want to only light the aquarium directly when the room is getting dark
                                                                                                  and see if that has any effect. While you mention plants, you don't really
                                                                                                  say what kind of plants or what size the tanks are. This information may be
                                                                                                  helpful.

                                                                                                  The other factor is food. You mention that your water qualities are in the
                                                                                                  good range. What exactly are the measurements? Especially the nitrate.
                                                                                                  Another source of food for the algae is phosphates. The best way to check on
                                                                                                  this is to be on a municipal water system, where you can request a sheet
                                                                                                  showing the amount of many and various chemicals in the water, among them
                                                                                                  phosphates. Are you using food for the plants in the tank? If so, there may
                                                                                                  simply be too much "good" stuff in the water column for algal growth, as
                                                                                                  well as that of the plants. Do you use CO2? Another source of energy for
                                                                                                  algal growth. Many of the things you need for good plant growth can
                                                                                                  contribute to algal growth.

                                                                                                  I've always used razor blades for cleaning the glass. Just be very careful
                                                                                                  near the silicone seams.

                                                                                                  You'll never get a tank that is 100% algae free, but you can get one that
                                                                                                  has no or very little visible algae.

                                                                                                  You mentioned your philodendrons. Philodendrons make excellent plants to
                                                                                                  help your water quality. Plant them in an open mesh container with something
                                                                                                  like sphagnum moss, and let the roots grow into the water through an open
                                                                                                  are in the back of your hood.

                                                                                                  \\Steve//

                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                  From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 [mailto:alan.zelhart@...]
                                                                                                  Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 10:17 AM
                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] The only dumb question is the one not asked...


                                                                                                  Right. Stacey, have you ever heard that saying? "The only dumb question is
                                                                                                  the one that is not asked" It's very true, so never be afraid to ask
                                                                                                  questions. I ask them all the time ;)

                                                                                                  My question is...what to do about the Algae. Seems to be getting worse
                                                                                                  slowly, and live plants look to be deteriorating very slowly. All water
                                                                                                  qualities are in the good range. How long should the aquarium lights be on.
                                                                                                  I had read 12 hours, and that is approximately how long I had mine on each
                                                                                                  day. I've lowered this time to 10 hours, and now have them on timers, in
                                                                                                  case I forget ;) The aquarium is in the living room where I have no
                                                                                                  problems growing many plants, such as my 8' tall Variegated corn plant, most
                                                                                                  philodendrons, and a few other plants whose name eludes me now.

                                                                                                  Also, what does everyone use to get the green algae off the sides of the
                                                                                                  glass. Is the razor blade and scour pad the best thing?

                                                                                                  I've never had problems with this stuff in my 125 gallon aquarium, but it's
                                                                                                  in a darker room, and I'm not growing live plants in it.
                                                                                                  --
                                                                                                  Chat with you later,
                                                                                                  Alan
                                                                                                  --
                                                                                                  Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                  http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                  -----
                                                                                                  *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                                                  *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and
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                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                  From: Genevieve Floberg [mailto:nativelady76@...]
                                                                                                  Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 7:52 AM
                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] curosity of Why I -


                                                                                                  you are not a dummy salt is good for mollies it helps their gills from
                                                                                                  sticking and it helps them breath anyone that says its bad for them needs to
                                                                                                  do more research your not a dummy your just learning.

                                                                                                  Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:
                                                                                                  Okay~
                                                                                                  I am going to fullfill everyone's curiosity. The reason I added the Salt is
                                                                                                  because I have Mollies and Guppies only in the tank. I was reading that
                                                                                                  these fish need some salt. I am new at this hobby so I am not offended of
                                                                                                  what is being said. I have already changed about 80% of the water. I guess
                                                                                                  you may consider me as the "DUMMY"for fish hobby.(HA!HA!)
                                                                                                  Stacey




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                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9544 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
                                                                                                      Last I heard was they are thinking about legalizing them, but the doa is still blocking them.  Their reasons were moral/ethical issues of genetic modification.  I was just wondering, I bet it would be a federal crime to buy one in Nevada and bring it to SF, but I'm not sure.
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  Patrick
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                  good point pat.  did you know the glofish are illegal
                                                                                                  in CA?
                                                                                                  they were only sold for a few months here
                                                                                                  Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9545 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
                                                                                                      I've never seen any of them.  I thought the local fish store might get them, but I think their distributor operates out of California, and they aren't listed.  I don't know if there ever was any novelty for them, the research lab just wanted another way to fund their pockets...I mean research. 
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  Patrick
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                  i tried to get some when i was in oregon visiting my parents and they don't even sell them near
                                                                                                  their house (in eugene) anymore. i'm not sure why, but maybe their novelty has worn off?
                                                                                                  Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9546 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                                      Nobody knows for sure, but the popular theory is Red Devil and Green Severum.  This is also the combination suspected of making jellybeans.  But again, this is not for sure because, as far as I know, the breeders have never published their secrets.
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  Patrick
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                  Out of curiousity, what were the two fish that are bred for parrots?
                                                                                                  Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9547 From: Amalthea Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: glofish
                                                                                                  the original purpose was to make them so that they glowed in the
                                                                                                  presence of toxins. they would then be used to detect the sources of
                                                                                                  water pollution, they were not a pointless experiment. the novelty they
                                                                                                  have as pets is only a side effect.
                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                  http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                  Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                                  On Mar 23, 2005, at 10:40 PM, Patrick, American Fish Guy wrote:

                                                                                                  >     I've never seen any of them.  I thought the local fish store might
                                                                                                  > get them, but I think their distributor operates out of California,
                                                                                                  > and they aren't listed.  I don't know if there ever was any novelty
                                                                                                  > for them, the research lab just wanted another way to fund their
                                                                                                  > pockets...I mean research. 
                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                  > Patrick
                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9548 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: glofish
                                                                                                      I didn't mean to imply that they were pointless.  I think they are a great tool to protect the environment.  I just meant that in addition to that important job their creators thought they could sell them as pets.  It is like the internet was developed to transfer information in companies, and then the idea was moved to regular people.  Only I don't think the internet was banned in CA, and I don't think the novelty will ware off any time soon. :) 
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  Patrick
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                  the original purpose was to make them so that they glowed in the
                                                                                                  presence of toxins. they would then be used to detect the sources of
                                                                                                  water pollution, they were not a pointless experiment. the novelty they
                                                                                                  have as pets is only a side effect.
                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                  Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                                  Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9549 From: antonios75@yahoo.com Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Tank of the Month
                                                                                                  Place your vote for Tank Of The Month on ReefGossip.com

                                                                                                  http://www.reefgossip.com/public_html/viewtopic.php?t=321
                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9550 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
                                                                                                  I have seen this done many a time outdoors. Where the tub was actually acting as a pond.  Never saw one inside the house.

                                                                                                  Usually I see these with a small fountain or water piece in the middle or on one end. with water being sucked out of the bottom through a filter then pushed upwards to allow water to flow down into the tank for circulation.
                                                                                                  A bath tub inside might be a little more of a project...
                                                                                                  is the tub fiberglass ( newer ) or the older cast iron type?

                                                                                                  things i'd say you will need.
                                                                                                  1. filter
                                                                                                  2. substrate
                                                                                                  3. some plumbing know how
                                                                                                  4. some common sense
                                                                                                  5. patience
                                                                                                  6 more patience
                                                                                                  7. sense of humor

                                                                                                  since the plumbing is intact you will need a way to make sure the tub doesn't drain.. If you need to drain it, use a syphon hose like in a fish tank. The substrate will plug your plumbing.
                                                                                                  The overflow if you have one on the tub would need to be fixed so as not to allow any fish to get stuck inside, but still allow water to drain through it. Maybe a fine screen mesh.
                                                                                                  To top off the tank ( bathtub) just turn on the water.
                                                                                                  how about heating?
                                                                                                  would a common submersible heater work here?

                                                                                                  Lighting could be provided by overhead bulb unless you want to grow plants in this tank. Overhead Hanging Halides might be best here.

                                                                                                  Bathroom is going to be awful humid....

                                                                                                  as far as fish.. why not some guppies? get a good strain of fancy guppies some (low light )floating plants and let nature take its course.

                                                                                                  how about replacing 1 section in the side with plexiglass so you can see into it from the side? might be intresting watching.

                                                                                                  well I'm babbling  LOL
                                                                                                  its do-able just might take some time...

                                                                                                  rob
                                                                                                  Indiana

                                                                                                  In a message dated 3/23/2005 9:43:01 PM US Eastern Standard Time, mby@... writes:


                                                                                                  I am interested in turning an old bathtub into a tank for fish. 

                                                                                                  The bathtub is existing in a bathroom with plumbing.  The tub is not
                                                                                                  used, so I am looking into turning it into a tank for fish.  Although
                                                                                                  before subjecting some little fish friends to an unhealthy environment
                                                                                                  I'd like to know if anyone has done this or what I would need to
                                                                                                  provide for the fish and any suggestions as to what type of fish might
                                                                                                  be suited for this sort of environment.  I was thinking some sort of
                                                                                                  carp or goldfish.

                                                                                                  I would love any info that you have to throw my way.

                                                                                                  Thanks!


                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9551 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: question about mollies
                                                                                                  Melissa, Quite often, Mollies and Swordtails (and to a lesser
                                                                                                  degree, Platies) will drop their young prematurely when netted close
                                                                                                  to the time they are due to give birth, and/or when they are confined
                                                                                                  in a small breeding net/trap. Such actions and conditions stress the
                                                                                                  fish out to the point that they release their fry before the time
                                                                                                  that they can survive on their own, and are dead or die shortly after
                                                                                                  being born. If your Molly was subjected to anything like this it is
                                                                                                  not the fish's fault. As such, you should not give up hope. Perhaps
                                                                                                  something else stressed her out as well. Ray
                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "m senter" <msenter@i...> wrote:
                                                                                                  > I hope you can answer this but how common is it that a molly gives
                                                                                                  birth to
                                                                                                  > all still born fish. Is this some thing i need to be worried about
                                                                                                  with this
                                                                                                  > or should i just give up hope with this fish.
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > melissa
                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9552 From: m senter Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: question about mollies
                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                    thanks i think that may be what happened as i knew she was close and i put her in the plastic breeder pin. day before yesterday and i wondered if that could be the problem but i did not know and i know i can leave the babies in with big fish.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    melissa 
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Date: 03/24/05 00:44:45
                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: question about mollies
                                                                                                     

                                                                                                    Melissa,  Quite often, Mollies and Swordtails (and to a lesser
                                                                                                    degree, Platies) will drop their young prematurely when netted close
                                                                                                    to the time they are due to give birth, and/or when they are confined
                                                                                                    in a small breeding net/trap.  Such actions and conditions stress the
                                                                                                    fish out to the point that they release their fry before the time
                                                                                                    that they can survive on their own, and are dead or die shortly after
                                                                                                    being born. If your Molly was subjected to anything like this it is
                                                                                                    not the fish's fault.  As such, you should not give up hope.  Perhaps
                                                                                                    something else stressed her out as well.  Ray                       
                                                                                                    \                                                                    
                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "m senter" <msenter@i...> wrote:
                                                                                                    >  I hope you can answer this but how common is it that a molly gives
                                                                                                    birth to
                                                                                                    > all still born fish. Is this some thing i need to be worried about
                                                                                                    with this
                                                                                                    > or should i just give up hope with this fish.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > melissa





                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                    ..
                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9553 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine


                                                                                                    a lot of Big chain stores will carry the latest Issue of a number of fine magazines.

                                                                                                    PFK is a Magazine out of the U.K.
                                                                                                    if you want PFK check out
                                                                                                    http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/

                                                                                                    Malta is a small Island country in the Mediterranian Sea.
                                                                                                    its located between Italy and Libya.


                                                                                                    message dated 3/23/2005 3:59:15 AM US Eastern Standard Time, anonymous122899@... writes:


                                                                                                    where can I get "The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine"



                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9554 From: m senter Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
                                                                                                     You do this please post pictures so we can all see your bathroom.....LOL
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    sorry had to add humor to the group.
                                                                                                    melissa
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Date: 03/24/05 00:32:08
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] bathtub as tank
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    I have seen this done many a time outdoors. Where the tub was actually acting as a pond.  Never saw one inside the house.

                                                                                                    Usually I see these with a small fountain or water piece in the middle or on one end. with water being sucked out of the bottom through a filter then pushed upwards to allow water to flow down into the tank for circulation.
                                                                                                    A bath tub inside might be a little more of a project...
                                                                                                    is the tub fiberglass ( newer ) or the older cast iron type?

                                                                                                    things i'd say you will need.
                                                                                                    1. filter
                                                                                                    2. substrate
                                                                                                    3. some plumbing know how
                                                                                                    4. some common sense
                                                                                                    5. patience
                                                                                                    6 more patience
                                                                                                    7. sense of humor

                                                                                                    since the plumbing is intact you will need a way to make sure the tub doesn't drain.. If you need to drain it, use a syphon hose like in a fish tank. The substrate will plug your plumbing.
                                                                                                    The overflow if you have one on the tub would need to be fixed so as not to allow any fish to get stuck inside, but still allow water to drain through it. Maybe a fine screen mesh.
                                                                                                    To top off the tank ( bathtub) just turn on the water.
                                                                                                    how about heating?
                                                                                                    would a common submersible heater work here?

                                                                                                    Lighting could be provided by overhead bulb unless you want to grow plants in this tank. Overhead Hanging Halides might be best here.

                                                                                                    Bathroom is going to be awful humid....

                                                                                                    as far as fish.. why not some guppies? get a good strain of fancy guppies some (low light )floating plants and let nature take its course.

                                                                                                    how about replacing 1 section in the side with plexiglass so you can see into it from the side? might be intresting watching.

                                                                                                    well I'm babbling  LOL
                                                                                                    its do-able just might take some time...

                                                                                                    rob
                                                                                                    Indiana

                                                                                                    In a message dated 3/23/2005 9:43:01 PM US Eastern Standard Time, mby@... writes:


                                                                                                    I am interested in turning an old bathtub into a tank for fish. 

                                                                                                    The bathtub is existing in a bathroom with plumbing.  The tub is not
                                                                                                    used, so I am looking into turning it into a tank for fish.  Although
                                                                                                    before subjecting some little fish friends to an unhealthy environment
                                                                                                    I'd like to know if anyone has done this or what I would need to
                                                                                                    provide for the fish and any suggestions as to what type of fish might
                                                                                                    be suited for this sort of environment.  I was thinking some sort of
                                                                                                    carp or goldfish.

                                                                                                    I would love any info that you have to throw my way.

                                                                                                    Thanks!




                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                    ..
                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9555 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: feeding
                                                                                                    add some live food... a lot of eels will not eat anything unless its a live.

                                                                                                    rob
                                                                                                    Indiana


                                                                                                    In a message dated 3/23/2005 3:01:00 AM US Eastern Standard Time, mrfabus@... writes:


                                                                                                    how often do snowflake eels  eat cause i have yet seen them eat and
                                                                                                    i want to
                                                                                                    make sure Im not doing anything wrong. tHERE ARE 3 EELS AND 3 GAR
                                                                                                    PIKE. Any info would be nice. Thank you


                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9556 From: m senter Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine
                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                      it is a really neat magazine, I just glanced at it as i am saving it for reading on my first plane trip ever.  I think between the cross stitch and the fish mag i might be able to do this flying stuff.  got to have something to keep my mind off the heights and then the fish will help my daughter to keep her happy.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      melissa 
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Date: 03/24/05 00:53:33
                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine
                                                                                                       


                                                                                                      a lot of Big chain stores will carry the latest Issue of a number of fine magazines.

                                                                                                      PFK is a Magazine out of the U.K.
                                                                                                      if you want PFK check out
                                                                                                      http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/

                                                                                                      Malta is a small Island country in the Mediterranian Sea.
                                                                                                      its located between Italy and Libya.


                                                                                                      message dated 3/23/2005 3:59:15 AM US Eastern Standard Time, anonymous122899@yahoo.com writes:


                                                                                                      where can I get "The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine"





                                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                      ..
                                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9557 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
                                                                                                      Lorie, While on the surface, that may seem like a good suggestion.
                                                                                                      However, I would just like to point out that aquarium salt is the
                                                                                                      exact same thing as Kosher salt (pure Sodium Chloride), only much
                                                                                                      more expensive. Unless we're talking about aquarium Marine salt,
                                                                                                      which contains all the trace elements (in addition to Sodium
                                                                                                      Chloride) found in ocean water, which is even more expensive yet and
                                                                                                      unnecessary. Why go to the additional expense when you don't need
                                                                                                      to? Cordially, Ray
                                                                                                      \
                                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lorie Melburn
                                                                                                      <nutsaboutnandays@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > We all have to learn some way. I don't know every thing there is to
                                                                                                      know my self. Is it better to add salt made for fish tanks that pet
                                                                                                      shop carrie? I am dumb too at alot of things too. That is why I
                                                                                                      joined this group, so that I could learn more about taking care of my
                                                                                                      fish. I don't think your dumb Stacy, I really think your very smart
                                                                                                      at alot of things. Like me, fish are new to you.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > I have alot to learn about alot of things myself.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Lorie
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                      > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9558 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: question about mollies
                                                                                                      Melissa, By your reply, do I understand that you believe you can
                                                                                                      leave the baby Mollies in with your other big fish and/or the mother
                                                                                                      Molly? If so, the answer is no -- they will be eaten. The best way
                                                                                                      to handle this situation when it comes up again is as follows. When
                                                                                                      you first suspect that the female Molly is pregnant (belly slightly
                                                                                                      bulged), remove her to a half-way sizeable tank (like a 5 gallon --
                                                                                                      or at least a 2 1/2) with lots of fine-growing plants such as Java
                                                                                                      Moss, Nitella, etc. where she won't feel confined, and where the
                                                                                                      babies can hid when first born. The gestation period for Mollies is
                                                                                                      between 28 and 32 days (1 month), depending upon temperature. Remove
                                                                                                      her to this tank after about 2 weeks into her pregnancy, not too much
                                                                                                      later. After birthing, you can put her back in the main aquarium or
                                                                                                      she may seek out and eat the babies. That's about it. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                      \
                                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "m senter" <msenter@i...> wrote:
                                                                                                      > thanks i think that may be what happened as i knew she was close
                                                                                                      and i put
                                                                                                      > her in the plastic breeder pin. day before yesterday and i wondered
                                                                                                      if that
                                                                                                      > could be the problem but i did not know and i know i can leave the
                                                                                                      babies in
                                                                                                      > with big fish.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > melissa
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > From: Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                      > Date: 03/24/05 00:44:45
                                                                                                      > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: question about mollies
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Melissa, Quite often, Mollies and Swordtails (and to a lesser
                                                                                                      > degree, Platies) will drop their young prematurely when netted
                                                                                                      close
                                                                                                      > to the time they are due to give birth, and/or when they are
                                                                                                      confined
                                                                                                      > in a small breeding net/trap. Such actions and conditions stress
                                                                                                      the
                                                                                                      > fish out to the point that they release their fry before the time
                                                                                                      > that they can survive on their own, and are dead or die shortly
                                                                                                      after
                                                                                                      > being born. If your Molly was subjected to anything like this it is
                                                                                                      > not the fish's fault. As such, you should not give up hope.
                                                                                                      Perhaps
                                                                                                      > something else stressed her out as well.
                                                                                                      Ray
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      \
                                                                                                      > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "m senter" <msenter@i...> wrote:
                                                                                                      > > I hope you can answer this but how common is it that a molly
                                                                                                      gives
                                                                                                      > birth to
                                                                                                      > > all still born fish. Is this some thing i need to be worried
                                                                                                      about
                                                                                                      > with this
                                                                                                      > > or should i just give up hope with this fish.
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > melissa
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                      thanks
                                                                                                      > ..
                                                                                                      > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                      important to
                                                                                                      > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                      the
                                                                                                      > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                      Thank You
                                                                                                      > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9559 From: m senter Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: question about mollies
                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                        no i had her in a little plastic floating tank that is in my big tank and it has a v shaped thing to where the fry go to the bottom and she is away from the fry. then when i am sure she is done having babies i take her out and put her back in the big tanks and take the fry to the baby tank.  that is a 5 gallon tank on my kitchen counter.  I am feeding the fry liquid fry food and flake food that i have crushed.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Is there a good website that i can go to, to learn more about mollies?
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        melissa 
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Date: 03/24/05 01:32:57
                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: question about mollies
                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Melissa,  By your reply, do I understand that you believe you can
                                                                                                        leave the baby Mollies in with your other big fish and/or the mother
                                                                                                        Molly?  If so, the answer is no -- they will be eaten.  The best way
                                                                                                        to handle this situation when it comes up again is as follows.  When
                                                                                                        you first suspect that the female Molly is pregnant (belly slightly
                                                                                                        bulged), remove her to a half-way sizeable tank (like a 5 gallon --
                                                                                                        or at least a 2 1/2) with lots of fine-growing plants such as Java
                                                                                                        Moss, Nitella, etc. where she won't feel confined, and where the 
                                                                                                        babies can hid when first born.  The gestation period for Mollies is
                                                                                                        between 28 and 32 days (1 month), depending upon temperature.  Remove
                                                                                                        her to this tank after about 2 weeks into her pregnancy, not too much
                                                                                                        later.  After birthing, you can put her back in the main aquarium or
                                                                                                        she may seek out and eat the babies.  That's about it.  Regards, Ray 
                                                                                                        \                                                                    
                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "m senter" <msenter@i...> wrote:
                                                                                                        > thanks i think that may be what happened as i knew she was close
                                                                                                        and i put
                                                                                                        > her in the plastic breeder pin. day before yesterday and i wondered
                                                                                                        if that
                                                                                                        > could be the problem but i did not know and i know i can leave the
                                                                                                        babies in
                                                                                                        > with big fish.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > melissa

                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                        > From: Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                        > Date: 03/24/05 00:44:45
                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: question about mollies

                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Melissa,  Quite often, Mollies and Swordtails (and to a lesser
                                                                                                        > degree, Platies) will drop their young prematurely when netted
                                                                                                        close
                                                                                                        > to the time they are due to give birth, and/or when they are
                                                                                                        confined
                                                                                                        > in a small breeding net/trap.  Such actions and conditions stress
                                                                                                        the
                                                                                                        > fish out to the point that they release their fry before the time
                                                                                                        > that they can survive on their own, and are dead or die shortly
                                                                                                        after
                                                                                                        > being born. If your Molly was subjected to anything like this it is
                                                                                                        > not the fish's fault.  As such, you should not give up hope. 
                                                                                                        Perhaps
                                                                                                        > something else stressed her out as well. 
                                                                                                        Ray                       
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        \                                                                    
                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "m senter" <msenter@i...> wrote:
                                                                                                        > >  I hope you can answer this but how common is it that a molly
                                                                                                        gives
                                                                                                        > birth to
                                                                                                        > > all still born fish. Is this some thing i need to be worried
                                                                                                        about
                                                                                                        > with this
                                                                                                        > > or should i just give up hope with this fish.
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > > melissa
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9560 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: bathtub as tank

                                                                                                        I once saw a yard full of toilets and bath tubs  all full of  guppies,whiteclouds and rosey red minnows.
                                                                                                        Actually looked pretty good.. with plants growing out the tops and down the sides. Only probem the people had was birds and raccoons getting into them.

                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                        Indiana




                                                                                                        In a message dated 3/24/2005 12:59:28 AM US Eastern Standard Time, msenter@... writes:


                                                                                                        You do this please post pictures so we can all see your bathroom.....LOL

                                                                                                        sorry had to add humor to the group.
                                                                                                        melissa



                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9561 From: dragon.hunter@dragons-realm.net Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                                        And when that poodle sleeps, it dreams of when poodles ruled the earth.  Gigantic Poodlesuareses running at speeds up to 25 miles per hour in short spurts  as it hunts its favorite prey across the european plains....the large Wooly Chihuahuas.  It would watch the chihuahua heards as they fished for ancient fish along the riverbanks of Europe, hiding amongst the trees till it had chosen its prey.  Upon spotting an injured wooly Chihuahua, the Poodlesaures would rush out and try to capture its victim in its powerful jaws. Often other Chihuahuas of the heard would start barking incessantly while others would quickly run up and knip at the heals of the Poodlesaures and then quickly run away.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Sorry, had to get that out of my system.  lol 
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Seriously though, I'll admit I have no real problems with cross-bred animals, be it fish or otherwise.  Cross breeding or specific trait breeding is still soo much better than injection or cutting to acheive a desired look.  Ah well, just my opinions.  Now let me run to my cave before the hate mail commences.  Be careful or I'll sick my blue gouramis on you!!!
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                        From: Amalthea
                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 5:12 PM
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                                        the point is only that the poodle is also a crossbreed (note the lack of wild poodles on the serengeti plains...
                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                        Get em' while they're cheap!
                                                                                                        Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the Basement....
                                                                                                        http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
                                                                                                        On Mar 21, 2005, at 7:46 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                                        I have a poodle who lays at my feet…I’m missing the correlation.?

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                        From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 3:44 PM
                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9562 From: jazz Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: ~ JAZ
                                                                                                        Thanks for your comments.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        what I said was purely because I am for the hobby.
                                                                                                        as I said before I did not mean to offend no one
                                                                                                        but if this is the place to learn,there is a lesson to be thought for who is going to buy these fish to adhere with the campaign,because the tropical fish farms are getting richer and richer on poor people [in knowledge] buying these fish because of their colours and appearances.
                                                                                                        this might be only my opinion
                                                                                                        this will be my last post on the subject
                                                                                                        anyone would like to contact me in person not in this group on this subject he is welcome.
                                                                                                        Thanks once again
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        jazz
                                                                                                        by the way
                                                                                                        J.P.AZZOPARDI ,
                                                                                                          MALTA
                                                                                                         EUROPE
                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                        Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 10:03 PM
                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]~ JAZ

                                                                                                        I have no problem in saying that you’re a jerk.

                                                                                                        I didn’t BUY these fish you braniac.  I RESCUED them from someone who bought them then was letting them die in freezing water with no filtration or oxygen.

                                                                                                        So shut your fly hole.

                                                                                                        And NO I don’t ready FISH magazines.  I am not a fish HOBBYIST so I came to this group for help, not insults. 

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                        From: jazz [mailto:jazz001@...]
                                                                                                        Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 1:16 AM
                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        First of all why the hell you are buying these fish?

                                                                                                        ok you might have bought them whitout knowing where they come from.

                                                                                                        do you read The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine?

                                                                                                        i assume not.

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        These fish  Parrots DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE they are genetically deformed on purpose so people will buy they looking also at their aspect.

                                                                                                        Secondly blood parrots are dyed ie injected with colour prior being sold.

                                                                                                        the black spot your fish is developing is an exzema or a type of fish cancer.

                                                                                                        recent study showed that half of the fish injected with coulor develepoed some form of sickness which lead to their death.

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        i URGE EVERYBODY NOT TO BUY THESE FISH

                                                                                                        Joseph Azzopardi

                                                                                                        Malta



                                                                                                         




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                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9563 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Discus
                                                                                                        Actually i can adapt any water parameters i need
                                                                                                        becuase i have hard alkali tap water and soft acidic
                                                                                                        well water no need or RO units and with some simple
                                                                                                        maths i can actually calibrate all me water
                                                                                                        parameters!
                                                                                                        as for the decor and stuff still empty with glass the
                                                                                                        tank is!! :)

                                                                                                        Nigel


                                                                                                        --- Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        > Nigel,
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Since they are Juveniles at the moment so you have
                                                                                                        > an opportunity that I
                                                                                                        > believe to acclimatize them to a little moderately
                                                                                                        > hard neutral water. What
                                                                                                        > are your water parameters in terms of PH, KH, GH and
                                                                                                        > Nitrates? Do you
                                                                                                        > have/plan a RO unit?
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Minimum would be a 55gal setup with a good planted
                                                                                                        > substrate and loads of
                                                                                                        > Amazonian plants with moderate to good lighting
                                                                                                        > (depends on plants). What is
                                                                                                        > your current setup that you have or are you planning
                                                                                                        > everything from
                                                                                                        > scratch?
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Nim
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > _____
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                        > [mailto:nigelchetcuti@...]
                                                                                                        > Sent: 23 March 2005 22:59
                                                                                                        > To: Aquatic life; buzaqq; fish corner
                                                                                                        > Subject: [AquaticLife] Discus
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Hi Guys
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > By any chance what would be in your opinion the best
                                                                                                        > display set up for Discus they are still juveniles!
                                                                                                        > i
                                                                                                        > have a cobalt blue pair a turqoise pair and marble
                                                                                                        > red
                                                                                                        > pair??
                                                                                                        > I am open for ideas so jump on pls! i need ideas!!
                                                                                                        > THANKS ALOT
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Nigel
                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9564 From: Aaron Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: ~ JAZ
                                                                                                        Thanks Nim,

                                                                                                        "Our purpose should be to spread the knowledge and not make the
                                                                                                        people who have done a mistake feel guilty."

                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                        > Chill guys, no need to be arrogant for any reason. There are a lot
                                                                                                        of people
                                                                                                        > who don't know what Parrots are and accidently buy them. Besids,
                                                                                                        PFK is not
                                                                                                        > available to everyone in the world and there are many people who
                                                                                                        know what
                                                                                                        > parrots are but still buy them. Its everyone's personal choice but
                                                                                                        yes, I
                                                                                                        > myself also do discourage their purchase but for the reason of
                                                                                                        preventing
                                                                                                        > any such further experiments. Dyed fish are in reality different
                                                                                                        from Blood
                                                                                                        > parrots as parrots are a hybrid and sometimes they are
                                                                                                        artificially coloured
                                                                                                        > like other fish called as "Dyed fish".
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > If some one has bought them without the knowledge of what they
                                                                                                        are, its not
                                                                                                        > really their fault. We are all victims of Impulse buying and many
                                                                                                        times do
                                                                                                        > buy fish that we have not researched on. 15 yrs of my hobby, and I
                                                                                                        still can
                                                                                                        > sometimes be lured by some vivid colours.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Our purpose should be to spread the knowledge and not make the
                                                                                                        people who
                                                                                                        > have done a mistake feel guilty.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Nim
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9565 From: Aaron Date: 3/23/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
                                                                                                        Thanks Lorie,

                                                                                                        "That is why I joined this group, so that I could learn more about
                                                                                                        taking care of my fish. ... I have alot to learn about alot of
                                                                                                        things myself."

                                                                                                        My sentiments exactly,
                                                                                                        Aaron


                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lorie Melburn
                                                                                                        <nutsaboutnandays@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > We all have to learn some way. I don't know every thing there is
                                                                                                        to know my self. Is it better to add salt made for fish tanks that
                                                                                                        pet shop carrie? I am dumb too at alot of things too. That is why I
                                                                                                        joined this group, so that I could learn more about taking care of
                                                                                                        my fish. I don't think your dumb Stacy, I really think your very
                                                                                                        smart at alot of things. Like me, fish are new to you.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > I have alot to learn about alot of things myself.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Lorie
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9566 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
                                                                                                        Thanks yea most of my life for the last 8 months has consisted of learning about Aquaria Education.. Being that that is what my thesis topic is on... I think besides the fact I have learned a lot I have kinda stopped letting ppl walk over me and others around me... ( aka I have got more mouthy lol) but its sad when I left this list with major drama happening and get back and its even worse... makes a person wanna run for the hills but I enjoy so many of the ppl here I wont let a few bad seeds run me away.. and thanks to your post and a fews including nim.. who I think rocks... I remembered the true reason why I hang out around here... hope things are well in your neck of the woods.. Shannon
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        PS I do have my own cite.. but it isn't fish related lol however I have been thinking of starting one for educators in any aspect I think combining teachers and hobbyist and professionals in the Aquaria world would be awesome..


                                                                                                        Thank you so very much, Shannon; your kind words are much
                                                                                                        appreciated.  I'm so glad I was able to help you at those times. 
                                                                                                        Likewise, I'm glad to see you back.  Its good to hear you finished up
                                                                                                        on the rough draft for your thesis.  Have been looking for your posts
                                                                                                        and was wondering what happened.  Noticed by some of your recent
                                                                                                        posts, you seem to have become more fish savvy.  Thought I saw you
                                                                                                        mention a while back that you started your own forum site(s)(?),
                                                                                                        unless I was mistaken.  If so, can you fill us in on that?  If not, I
                                                                                                        probably didn't read that right.  Best Wishes,  Ray   
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9567 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
                                                                                                        im just wondering if you will have a lid of some sorts.. I know the one tank I have that doesn't have a lid the water gets so dirty so much faster drives me crazy.. I have even thought of putting saran wrap over it lol... and I know me being so clumsy or my clumsy friends I would be scared of things dropping in it lol Shannon
                                                                                                        u do this please post pictures so we can all see your bathroom.....LOL
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9568 From: paul helms Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
                                                                                                        it would be illegal, but i do not think it is a
                                                                                                        federal problem, as it is not a lethal threat to the
                                                                                                        ecosystem. more than likely it would just be a fine
                                                                                                        if caught. it would be confiscated at the checkpoint,
                                                                                                        if there is actually anyone there. i just came back
                                                                                                        from reno and there was no inspections.lmao. could
                                                                                                        have brought in anything i wanted.
                                                                                                        --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                        <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        > Last I heard was they are thinking about
                                                                                                        > legalizing them, but the doa is
                                                                                                        > still blocking them. Their reasons were
                                                                                                        > moral/ethical issues of genetic
                                                                                                        > modification. I was just wondering, I bet it would
                                                                                                        > be a federal crime to
                                                                                                        > buy one in Nevada and bring it to SF, but I'm not
                                                                                                        > sure.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Patrick
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                        > good point pat. did you know the glofish are
                                                                                                        > illegal
                                                                                                        > in CA?
                                                                                                        > they were only sold for a few months here



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                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9569 From: paul helms Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: study on dyde fish
                                                                                                        they used to inject them in Hayward California, atthe
                                                                                                        distributors place of buysiness. it was done by asian
                                                                                                        women in the warehouse. they simply bought 100,s of
                                                                                                        glass fish and did it themselves. that is why i said
                                                                                                        factory conditions instead of huts.
                                                                                                        --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                        <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        > I have heard that the ones with the ink injected
                                                                                                        > are done in huts, not
                                                                                                        > factories, by people who really don't know what they
                                                                                                        > are doing. These are
                                                                                                        > Asians living in places like Thailand that are just
                                                                                                        > trying to stay alive.
                                                                                                        > That was from somebody that said he knew people who
                                                                                                        > visited these places.
                                                                                                        > They use the same needles for thousands of fish, so
                                                                                                        > every disease is passed
                                                                                                        > along. Of course, I don't trust that person very
                                                                                                        > much, so it may be another
                                                                                                        > "fish story".
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Patrick
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                        > yeah the striped ones are injected in a factory
                                                                                                        > setting.



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                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9570 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: New poll for AquaticLife
                                                                                                        Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
                                                                                                        AquaticLife group:

                                                                                                        Which title or titles best describe
                                                                                                        you as it relates to AquaticLife?

                                                                                                        Please select as many answers that
                                                                                                        apply.

                                                                                                        If "other", please post to the group
                                                                                                        with the Subject: Poll

                                                                                                        Thank you.

                                                                                                        o Aquarist
                                                                                                        o Ichthyologist
                                                                                                        o Marine Biologist
                                                                                                        o Researcher
                                                                                                        o Chemist
                                                                                                        o Veterinarian
                                                                                                        o Scientist
                                                                                                        o Hobbyist
                                                                                                        o Beginner
                                                                                                        o Novice
                                                                                                        o Intermediate
                                                                                                        o Advanced
                                                                                                        o Expert
                                                                                                        o Professional
                                                                                                        o LFS Owner or Worker
                                                                                                        o Supplier
                                                                                                        o Importer
                                                                                                        o Breeder
                                                                                                        o Collector
                                                                                                        o Fish Lover
                                                                                                        o Enthusiast
                                                                                                        o Naturalist
                                                                                                        o Photographer
                                                                                                        o Teacher
                                                                                                        o Student


                                                                                                        To vote, please visit the following web page:
                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/surveys?id=1652946

                                                                                                        Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
                                                                                                        not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
                                                                                                        web site listed above.

                                                                                                        Thanks!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9571 From: Aaron Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New poll for AquaticLife
                                                                                                        Hi All,

                                                                                                        There is a new poll for the group. It is a follow up to the previous
                                                                                                        poll from almost a year ago which is still open.

                                                                                                        There are several hundred new members to the group since the first
                                                                                                        poll started and it would be great for everybody to have a chance to
                                                                                                        respond.

                                                                                                        Thanks,
                                                                                                        Aaron
                                                                                                        -------
                                                                                                        Poll question:
                                                                                                        What aspescts of the hobby intrest you the most? Is there a
                                                                                                        particular type of Aquatic Life that you like best? Please let us
                                                                                                        know your Favorite topics, if it is not in the list - please post it
                                                                                                        to the group so we can get a better understanding of the General
                                                                                                        Intrests of the Members. Thank you.

                                                                                                        Responses:
                                                                                                        Choices 421 Votes % reply
                                                                                                        Fish ONLY Aquariums / NO Live Plants 10 2.38%
                                                                                                        Freshwater Aquariums 59 14.01%
                                                                                                        Planted Tanks 38 9.03%
                                                                                                        Nature Aquariums 19 4.51%
                                                                                                        Brackish Tanks 6 1.43%
                                                                                                        Saltwater Aquariums 10 2.38%
                                                                                                        Reef Tanks 7 1.66%
                                                                                                        Ponds 19 4.51%
                                                                                                        Water Gardens 13 3.09%
                                                                                                        Goldfish & Koi 12 2.85%
                                                                                                        Tropical Fish 53 12.59%
                                                                                                        Shrimp 11 2.61%
                                                                                                        Eels 3 0.71%
                                                                                                        Crabs 4 0.95%
                                                                                                        Frogs 9 2.14%
                                                                                                        Snails 11 2.61%
                                                                                                        Crawdads/Crayfish & Lobsters 6 1.43%
                                                                                                        Amphibians 6 1.43%
                                                                                                        Live Plants 39 9.26%
                                                                                                        Turtles 4 0.95%
                                                                                                        Breeding 31 7.36%
                                                                                                        Aquascaping 20 4.75%
                                                                                                        Photography 11 2.61%
                                                                                                        Live Foods 17 4.04%
                                                                                                        other ~ please post 3 0.71%

                                                                                                        -------------------------------
                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
                                                                                                        > AquaticLife group:
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Which title or titles best describe
                                                                                                        > you as it relates to AquaticLife?
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Please select as many answers that
                                                                                                        > apply.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > If "other", please post to the group
                                                                                                        > with the Subject: Poll
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Thank you.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > o Aquarist
                                                                                                        > o Ichthyologist
                                                                                                        > o Marine Biologist
                                                                                                        > o Researcher
                                                                                                        > o Chemist
                                                                                                        > o Veterinarian
                                                                                                        > o Scientist
                                                                                                        > o Hobbyist
                                                                                                        > o Beginner
                                                                                                        > o Novice
                                                                                                        > o Intermediate
                                                                                                        > o Advanced
                                                                                                        > o Expert
                                                                                                        > o Professional
                                                                                                        > o LFS Owner or Worker
                                                                                                        > o Supplier
                                                                                                        > o Importer
                                                                                                        > o Breeder
                                                                                                        > o Collector
                                                                                                        > o Fish Lover
                                                                                                        > o Enthusiast
                                                                                                        > o Naturalist
                                                                                                        > o Photographer
                                                                                                        > o Teacher
                                                                                                        > o Student
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > To vote, please visit the following web page:
                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/surveys?id=1652946
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
                                                                                                        > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
                                                                                                        > web site listed above.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Thanks!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9572 From: Steve Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
                                                                                                        Ray,

                                                                                                        If the salt is for treatment, I'll use kosher salt or similar. If the salt
                                                                                                        is for a brackish tank setup, then, without question, I'll use the marine
                                                                                                        salt. If I am attempting to keep fish that require a hard alkaline water,
                                                                                                        I'll use a formula of different salts. I've seen no need to buy or use
                                                                                                        "aquarium" salt.

                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                        From: Ray Wetzel [mailto:sevenspringss@...]
                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 1:03 AM
                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: curosity of Why I -




                                                                                                        Lorie, While on the surface, that may seem like a good suggestion.
                                                                                                        However, I would just like to point out that aquarium salt is the
                                                                                                        exact same thing as Kosher salt (pure Sodium Chloride), only much
                                                                                                        more expensive. Unless we're talking about aquarium Marine salt,
                                                                                                        which contains all the trace elements (in addition to Sodium
                                                                                                        Chloride) found in ocean water, which is even more expensive yet and
                                                                                                        unnecessary. Why go to the additional expense when you don't need
                                                                                                        to? Cordially, Ray
                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lorie Melburn
                                                                                                        <nutsaboutnandays@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > We all have to learn some way. I don't know every thing there is to
                                                                                                        know my self. Is it better to add salt made for fish tanks that pet
                                                                                                        shop carrie? I am dumb too at alot of things too. That is why I
                                                                                                        joined this group, so that I could learn more about taking care of my
                                                                                                        fish. I don't think your dumb Stacy, I really think your very smart
                                                                                                        at alot of things. Like me, fish are new to you.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > I have alot to learn about alot of things myself.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Lorie
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!






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                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9573 From: Steve Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: glofish
                                                                                                        Actually, the Internet was created by an arm of the DoD, known as DARPA, as
                                                                                                        a means of passing information among computers, hence the redundancy in the
                                                                                                        Internet--can't get there this way, there is another way. Universities were
                                                                                                        the next to hop on the bandwagon of the Internet to pass information among
                                                                                                        researchers. Companies are johnnies come lately to the Internet act.

                                                                                                        The glofish, as you have stated, were created to detect specific toxins in
                                                                                                        the water. They do glow, but you need specific lighting to get the full
                                                                                                        effect in an aquarium--I believe it is UV lighting, though some of the glow
                                                                                                        is apparent under normal conditions.

                                                                                                        The concern in California, and other places, was the release of these fish
                                                                                                        into local waterways, and the effects they would have upon the native
                                                                                                        populations of fauna. There was also concern since they were genetically
                                                                                                        modified, and a group of people have knee jerk reactions to the words
                                                                                                        "genetically modified".

                                                                                                        There are several other threads running in the list right now on modified
                                                                                                        fish, whether through breeding of "fancy" varieties, dyeing through food or
                                                                                                        injection, or immersion, etc. For the most part, I don't see the purpose of
                                                                                                        such fish. However, they are always good sellers, and the shops generally
                                                                                                        need to carry such fish to stay in business, if only to be able to serve the
                                                                                                        serious person who would rather not see such fish. It comes down to simple
                                                                                                        economics for the shop owners.

                                                                                                        For the record, I have kept various varieties of goldfish, guppies, mollies,
                                                                                                        swordtails, platies, and _Betta splendens", all of which have had much work
                                                                                                        done to create various varieties. Now I would prefer to work with fish that
                                                                                                        have not been modified by breeding or other means.

                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                        From: Patrick, American Fish Guy [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
                                                                                                        Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 11:17 PM
                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] glofish


                                                                                                        I didn't mean to imply that they were pointless. I think they are a
                                                                                                        great tool to protect the environment. I just meant that in addition to
                                                                                                        that important job their creators thought they could sell them as pets. It
                                                                                                        is like the internet was developed to transfer information in companies, and
                                                                                                        then the idea was moved to regular people. Only I don't think the internet
                                                                                                        was banned in CA, and I don't think the novelty will ware off any time soon.
                                                                                                        :)

                                                                                                        Patrick

                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                        the original purpose was to make them so that they glowed in the
                                                                                                        presence of toxins. they would then be used to detect the sources of
                                                                                                        water pollution, they were not a pointless experiment. the novelty they
                                                                                                        have as pets is only a side effect.
                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                        http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                        Your Alternative to the Alternative....




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                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9574 From: jazz Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
                                                                                                        Ray you are right.
                                                                                                        Remember pet shops are there to sell,and they invent every stratagems to
                                                                                                        sell,so its up us the hobbyist to see and learn to keep our costs down.
                                                                                                        because ours is not an easy hobby with the price of fish and
                                                                                                        electricity/water feeding etc etc.
                                                                                                        As you might see from posts I am quite radical I go only to petshops in
                                                                                                        extremes what I get or try to do is to buy directly from persons hand onto
                                                                                                        the hobby.
                                                                                                        jazz

                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                        From: "Steve" <steve@...>
                                                                                                        To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 1:12 PM
                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: curosity of Why I -


                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Ray,
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > If the salt is for treatment, I'll use kosher salt or similar. If the salt
                                                                                                        > is for a brackish tank setup, then, without question, I'll use the marine
                                                                                                        > salt. If I am attempting to keep fish that require a hard alkaline water,
                                                                                                        > I'll use a formula of different salts. I've seen no need to buy or use
                                                                                                        > "aquarium" salt.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                        > From: Ray Wetzel [mailto:sevenspringss@...]
                                                                                                        > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 1:03 AM
                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: curosity of Why I -
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Lorie, While on the surface, that may seem like a good suggestion.
                                                                                                        > However, I would just like to point out that aquarium salt is the
                                                                                                        > exact same thing as Kosher salt (pure Sodium Chloride), only much
                                                                                                        > more expensive. Unless we're talking about aquarium Marine salt,
                                                                                                        > which contains all the trace elements (in addition to Sodium
                                                                                                        > Chloride) found in ocean water, which is even more expensive yet and
                                                                                                        > unnecessary. Why go to the additional expense when you don't need
                                                                                                        > to? Cordially, Ray
                                                                                                        > \
                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lorie Melburn
                                                                                                        > <nutsaboutnandays@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > > We all have to learn some way. I don't know every thing there is to
                                                                                                        > know my self. Is it better to add salt made for fish tanks that pet
                                                                                                        > shop carrie? I am dumb too at alot of things too. That is why I
                                                                                                        > joined this group, so that I could learn more about taking care of my
                                                                                                        > fish. I don't think your dumb Stacy, I really think your very smart
                                                                                                        > at alot of things. Like me, fish are new to you.
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > > I have alot to learn about alot of things myself.
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > > Lorie
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                        > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                        > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9575 From: TankGurl Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: The only dumb question is the one not asked...
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Also, what does everyone use to get the green algae off the sides of the
                                                                                                        > glass. Is the razor blade and scour pad the best thing?

                                                                                                        There are rectangular/square magnetic cleaners available at most
                                                                                                        fish/pet stores that work very well for cleaning aquarium glass. You
                                                                                                        don't even have to get your hands wet.


                                                                                                        Kelly
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9576 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: glofish
                                                                                                        Actually, the internet was developed to transer information for the
                                                                                                        military. DARPA funded the development of DARPANET to be distributed so
                                                                                                        that communications could get through even if major portions of the US no
                                                                                                        longer existed (nuclear war).



                                                                                                        Patrick, American Fish Guy said:
                                                                                                        > I didn't mean to imply that they were pointless. I think they are a
                                                                                                        > great tool to protect the environment. I just meant that in addition to
                                                                                                        > that important job their creators thought they could sell them as pets.
                                                                                                        > It
                                                                                                        > is like the internet was developed to transfer information in companies,
                                                                                                        > and
                                                                                                        > then the idea was moved to regular people. Only I don't think the
                                                                                                        > internet
                                                                                                        > was banned in CA, and I don't think the novelty will ware off any time
                                                                                                        > soon.
                                                                                                        > :)
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Patrick
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9577 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: The only dumb question is the one not asked...
                                                                                                        Ah yes, I saw those, and I wondered if they work. They really really do, huh? I may have to stop and pick one up on the way home.

                                                                                                        Next question. What does everyone use to discourage algae, but that does not harm you live plants. Or is there such a thing?

                                                                                                        Oh, one more thing. Why do they make wording on some of these damn aquarium supplies packages so small, I need to get out a magnified glass to read it. Bought this one stuff yesterday to get rid of algae, got it home in better light, where I could read the label (with great difficulty), and it said don't put with live plants. So I have to take that back to the store today.

                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                        Chat with you later,
                                                                                                        Alan
                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                        Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                        http://www.GardenersCorner.com
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                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                        From: TankGurl [mailto:fishgoddess@...]
                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 6:57 AM
                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The only dumb question is the one not asked...



                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Also, what does everyone use to get the green algae off the sides of
                                                                                                        > the glass. Is the razor blade and scour pad the best thing?

                                                                                                        There are rectangular/square magnetic cleaners available at most fish/pet stores that work very well for cleaning aquarium glass. You don't even have to get your hands wet.


                                                                                                        Kelly



                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks . Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9578 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
                                                                                                            You mean you have border crossings in CA?  Sounds quite unconstitutional to me.  Here is why the Federal government has jurisdiction, the constitution gives the Feds the power to control "interstate commerce".  No state should have any power to patrol the borders between their state and another.  Once a crime involves crossing a state line, it is covered by the FBI.  If you kidnap some kid and dump them in an Arizona candy store with a blank check, the FBI will investigate why they got so fat.
                                                                                                            With that said, I've heard about check points in CA, but I thought they were between there and Mexico.  Do you really have check points between CA and other US states?  How could they do that?  When they are manned, what do they look for?
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Patrick
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                        it would be illegal, but i do not think it is a
                                                                                                        federal problem, as it is not a lethal threat to the
                                                                                                        ecosystem.  more than likely it would just be a fine
                                                                                                        if caught.  it would be confiscated at the checkpoint,
                                                                                                        if there is actually anyone there.  i just came back
                                                                                                        from reno and there was no inspections.lmao. could
                                                                                                        have brought in anything i wanted.
                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9579 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: glofish
                                                                                                            Maybe it was the LAN that was developed by a company, or maybe a government department, but I think it was a British office worker who came up with the idea to allow the boss to send orders to the secretaries down stairs.  I remember this from a computer class, I just don't remember the details of what kind of network it was.  Maybe it was they guy that came up with www or http or html?  Point was that it was created for one purpose and then transferred to the public. :)
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Patrick
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                        Actually, the internet was developed to transer information for the
                                                                                                        military.  DARPA funded the development of DARPANET to be distributed so
                                                                                                        that communications could get through even if major portions of the US no
                                                                                                        longer existed (nuclear war).
                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9580 From: maryrich@nbnet.nb.ca Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Goldfish

                                                                                                        Hi Everyone

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        I have this goldfish that is forever going up to my comet and it looks likes, s/he is giving the comet kisses, does this mean anything?

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Mary

                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9581 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
                                                                                                        The department of Agriculture has checkpoints entering the state to try and limit the introduction of diseases and pests brought in by way of agriculture.
                                                                                                        example:Chrsitmas trees imported from an infested state are not allowed in, but trees from an uneffected state are allowed in.  Waht gets me is that if you buy an apple in Nevada and enter California with it you will have to eat it, or give it up on the spot. Even though more in likely it was imported through California first....

                                                                                                        So far they have limited  the elm beetle,killer bees, and a few other pests from entering the state. Of course they have let tons of illegal immegrants in through the borders patroled by the Border patrol.

                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                        Indiana

                                                                                                        In a message dated 3/24/2005 9:34:10 AM US Eastern Standard Time, patrickmn1@... writes:


                                                                                                        With that said, I've heard about check points in CA, but I thought they were between there and Mexico.  Do you really have check points between CA and other US states?  How could they do that?  When they are manned, what do they look for?



                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9582 From: Cosmo Knight Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: ~ JAZ
                                                                                                        Right on. 2 blood stained thumbs up, from eating my rare steak.

                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:

                                                                                                        > paul
                                                                                                        > p.s. i joined peta (people for the eating of tasty
                                                                                                        > animals) lmao
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9583 From: m senter Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
                                                                                                        here is an idea for your lid....Clear plexiglass...good luck i really want to see pictures.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        melissa 
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Date: 03/24/05 04:02:17
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] bathtub as tank
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        im just wondering if you will have a lid of some sorts.. I know the one tank I have that doesn't have a lid the water gets so dirty so much faster drives me crazy.. I have even thought of putting saran wrap over it lol... and I know me being so clumsy or my clumsy friends I would be scared of things dropping in it lol Shannon
                                                                                                        u do this please post pictures so we can all see your bathroom.....LOL
                                                                                                         


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                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9584 From: Guess? Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Sexing Rams and Question
                                                                                                        Hi

                                                                                                        Im New to this list , My name is Rob And I live in Ireland, Im new
                                                                                                        ish to tropical tanks, (Spent the last year looking after my
                                                                                                        girlfriends 4 goldfish So have learned alot about keeping fish)but
                                                                                                        have been around fish for a long time, and finally took the plunge
                                                                                                        and now I have the bug in large amounts,

                                                                                                        I just want firstly to say hi to everyone,

                                                                                                        My first tank is going to be a biotope south american blackwater
                                                                                                        creek kinda theme , I have my tank a few months now its cycled and I
                                                                                                        have purchased two rams, from the LFS and told they were a male and
                                                                                                        female,

                                                                                                        I have looked a pictures And pages and pages of reference so I know
                                                                                                        ish how to tell them apart, but I think there two males, They ewach
                                                                                                        have a side of the tank with caves And plants to hide in, they do
                                                                                                        seem to get on, as there not always at each other And Will Some times
                                                                                                        sit together but then for no reason start one with go for the other
                                                                                                        sometimes they lock heads and sometimes one just backs off, but then
                                                                                                        sometimes they see each other and seem to not mind.,

                                                                                                        Any help?
                                                                                                        I can post pictures later from home if that will help?

                                                                                                        Also Feeding what to feed them? they touch flake but there always on
                                                                                                        the mid to bottom of the tank so the food just floats there same With
                                                                                                        freeze dried blood worm, frozen brine shrimp and blood worm does
                                                                                                        kinda the Same once I leave it for a bit first then put it into the
                                                                                                        tank.

                                                                                                        What about pellets?

                                                                                                        Any help would be greatly received

                                                                                                        Rob
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9585 From: Rob Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: hi
                                                                                                        Hi all Im new here and just saying hi

                                                                                                        Rob
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9586 From: Loie Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: hi
                                                                                                        Hi Rob, welcome to the group!

                                                                                                        Rob <rhickey@...> wrote:


                                                                                                        Hi all Im new here and just saying hi

                                                                                                        Rob









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                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9588 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: hi Rob

                                                                                                        Hi rob welcome to the group. To help confusion matters could you please post name plus state of residence and country of orgin.  I know us Robs are popular and its hard to sort us out sometimes..

                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                        NE Indiana
                                                                                                        USA

                                                                                                        In a message dated 3/24/2005 12:54:52 PM US Eastern Standard Time, rhickey@... writes:


                                                                                                        Hi all Im new here and just saying hi

                                                                                                        Rob


                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9589 From: bigter4@yahoo.com Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Pleco problems
                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "A J Myers" <SI.HATCH3@V...>
                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > My pleco has holes in his fins. Everything tests fine. This is my
                                                                                                        > last fish, please help!
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > *A J*



                                                                                                        Hey AJ, try " Mellow Fix" I know I spelled that wrong, but it is
                                                                                                        all natural and will heal any wound or gash. this is a safe way to
                                                                                                        help save him. -Terry
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9590 From: Robert Hickey Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: hi Rob
                                                                                                        Hiya Cool no probs
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Irish Rob in Dublin
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        :)
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Anyone get a chance to look at my request for information about Bolivian Rams?
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Cheers all
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Rob
                                                                                                        Regards
                                                                                                        Robert Hickey
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Senior Technical Professional Engineer
                                                                                                        Esat BT
                                                                                                        Unit C, Dundrum Business Park
                                                                                                        T +353 1 4328749
                                                                                                        M +353 86 8061840
                                                                                                        Email: rhickey@...
                                                                                                        www.esatbt.com
                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 7:25 PM
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hi Rob


                                                                                                        Hi rob welcome to the group. To help confusion matters could you please post name plus state of residence and country of orgin.  I know us Robs are popular and its hard to sort us out sometimes..

                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                        NE Indiana
                                                                                                        USA

                                                                                                        In a message dated 3/24/2005 12:54:52 PM US Eastern Standard Time, rhickey@... writes:


                                                                                                        Hi all Im new here and just saying hi

                                                                                                        Rob




                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9591 From: joequality1980 Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: ~ JAZ
                                                                                                        haha right on! He's from the Malta group (the one with the same
                                                                                                        facade as ours... dont worry there's no copyright involved...), and
                                                                                                        he should be more courteous towards our members

                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...>
                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                        > i don't know who this jazz guy is as i have never seen
                                                                                                        > a post from him/her before. i think that the poster
                                                                                                        > needs to jo0in peta or some other crap organization
                                                                                                        > instead of bothering peole here.
                                                                                                        > paul
                                                                                                        > p.s. i joined peta (people for the eating of tasty
                                                                                                        > animals) lmao
                                                                                                        > --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@c...>
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9592 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: question about mollies
                                                                                                        Mellisa, The 5 gallon tank you refer to is ideal -- just don't use
                                                                                                        the little plastic floating tank with the "v" bottom, but instead let
                                                                                                        her have the run of the tank and use plenty of fine-growing plants so
                                                                                                        the babies can hide (and keep her well fed, but be careful not to
                                                                                                        overfeed). The website -- American Livebearers Association (<<
                                                                                                        livebearers.org >>) is one of the best sites to get information on
                                                                                                        Mollies and most any other type of livebearer. Ray
                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "m senter" <msenter@i...> wrote:
                                                                                                        > no i had her in a little plastic floating tank that is in my big
                                                                                                        tank and it
                                                                                                        > has a v shaped thing to where the fry go to the bottom and she is
                                                                                                        away from
                                                                                                        > the fry. then when i am sure she is done having babies i take her
                                                                                                        out and
                                                                                                        > put her back in the big tanks and take the fry to the baby tank.
                                                                                                        that is a
                                                                                                        > 5 gallon tank on my kitchen counter. I am feeding the fry liquid
                                                                                                        fry food
                                                                                                        > and flake food that i have crushed.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Is there a good website that i can go to, to learn more about
                                                                                                        mollies?
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > melissa
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > From: Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                        > Date: 03/24/05 01:32:57
                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: question about mollies
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Melissa, By your reply, do I understand that you believe you can
                                                                                                        > leave the baby Mollies in with your other big fish and/or the
                                                                                                        mother
                                                                                                        > Molly? If so, the answer is no -- they will be eaten. The best
                                                                                                        way
                                                                                                        > to handle this situation when it comes up again is as follows.
                                                                                                        When
                                                                                                        > you first suspect that the female Molly is pregnant (belly slightly
                                                                                                        > bulged), remove her to a half-way sizeable tank (like a 5 gallon --
                                                                                                        > or at least a 2 1/2) with lots of fine-growing plants such as Java
                                                                                                        > Moss, Nitella, etc. where she won't feel confined, and where the
                                                                                                        > babies can hid when first born. The gestation period for Mollies
                                                                                                        is
                                                                                                        > between 28 and 32 days (1 month), depending upon temperature.
                                                                                                        Remove
                                                                                                        > her to this tank after about 2 weeks into her pregnancy, not too
                                                                                                        much
                                                                                                        > later. After birthing, you can put her back in the main aquarium
                                                                                                        or
                                                                                                        > she may seek out and eat the babies. That's about it. Regards,
                                                                                                        Ray
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "m senter" <msenter@i...> wrote:
                                                                                                        > > thanks i think that may be what happened as i knew she was close
                                                                                                        > and i put
                                                                                                        > > her in the plastic breeder pin. day before yesterday and i
                                                                                                        wondered
                                                                                                        > if that
                                                                                                        > > could be the problem but i did not know and i know i can leave
                                                                                                        the
                                                                                                        > babies in
                                                                                                        > > with big fish.
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > > melissa
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > > From: Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                        > > Date: 03/24/05 00:44:45
                                                                                                        > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: question about mollies
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > > Melissa, Quite often, Mollies and Swordtails (and to a lesser
                                                                                                        > > degree, Platies) will drop their young prematurely when netted
                                                                                                        > close
                                                                                                        > > to the time they are due to give birth, and/or when they are
                                                                                                        > confined
                                                                                                        > > in a small breeding net/trap. Such actions and conditions stress
                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                        > > fish out to the point that they release their fry before the time
                                                                                                        > > that they can survive on their own, and are dead or die shortly
                                                                                                        > after
                                                                                                        > > being born. If your Molly was subjected to anything like this it
                                                                                                        is
                                                                                                        > > not the fish's fault. As such, you should not give up hope.
                                                                                                        > Perhaps
                                                                                                        > > something else stressed her out as well.
                                                                                                        > Ray
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                        > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "m senter" <msenter@i...>
                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                        > > > I hope you can answer this but how common is it that a molly
                                                                                                        > gives
                                                                                                        > > birth to
                                                                                                        > > > all still born fish. Is this some thing i need to be worried
                                                                                                        > about
                                                                                                        > > with this
                                                                                                        > > > or should i just give up hope with this fish.
                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                        > > > melissa
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                        > thanks
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                                                                                                        thanks
                                                                                                        > ..
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                                                                                                        important to
                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
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                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9593 From: Mariah Young Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
                                                                                                        Thanks to all who have given suggestions for my bathtub tank. I am
                                                                                                        still doing some research and will report back with more questions as I
                                                                                                        go along and photos of course.

                                                                                                        Thanks,
                                                                                                        Mariah in Santa Monica
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9594 From: Steve Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: The only dumb question is the one not asked...
                                                                                                        There is no magic cure for algae. You simply need to deprive it of food and
                                                                                                        light, as I mentioned in my last post here to you. Getting your plants
                                                                                                        growing well will help, but it is a fine line you'll be walking until the
                                                                                                        algae is under control.

                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                        From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 [mailto:alan.zelhart@...]
                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 9:03 AM
                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The only dumb question is the one not
                                                                                                        asked...



                                                                                                        Ah yes, I saw those, and I wondered if they work. They really really do,
                                                                                                        huh? I may have to stop and pick one up on the way home.

                                                                                                        Next question. What does everyone use to discourage algae, but that does
                                                                                                        not harm you live plants. Or is there such a thing?

                                                                                                        Oh, one more thing. Why do they make wording on some of these damn aquarium
                                                                                                        supplies packages so small, I need to get out a magnified glass to read it.
                                                                                                        Bought this one stuff yesterday to get rid of algae, got it home in better
                                                                                                        light, where I could read the label (with great difficulty), and it said
                                                                                                        don't put with live plants. So I have to take that back to the store today.

                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                        Chat with you later,
                                                                                                        Alan
                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                        Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                        http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                        -----
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                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                        From: TankGurl [mailto:fishgoddess@...]
                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 6:57 AM
                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The only dumb question is the one not asked...



                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Also, what does everyone use to get the green algae off the sides of
                                                                                                        > the glass. Is the razor blade and scour pad the best thing?

                                                                                                        There are rectangular/square magnetic cleaners available at most fish/pet
                                                                                                        stores that work very well for cleaning aquarium glass. You don't even have
                                                                                                        to get your hands wet.


                                                                                                        Kelly



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                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9595 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
                                                                                                        oh yeah cal has border crossings but they usually just ask if you are carrying any fruit (fruitflies) or stuff like that. even if they are, most people just say no and they let you on by without actually inspecting your car.

                                                                                                        "Patrick, American Fish Guy" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                            You mean you have border crossings in CA?  Sounds quite unconstitutional to me.  Here is why the Federal government has jurisdiction, the constitution gives the Feds the power to control "interstate commerce".  No state should have any power to patrol the borders between their state and another.  Once a crime involves crossing a state line, it is covered by the FBI.  If you kidnap some kid and dump them in an Arizona candy store with a blank check, the FBI will investigate why they got so fat.
                                                                                                            With that said, I've heard about check points in CA, but I thought they were between there and Mexico.  Do you really have check points between CA and other US states?  How could they do that?  When they are manned, what do they look for?
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Patrick
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                        it would be illegal, but i do not think it is a
                                                                                                        federal problem, as it is not a lethal threat to the
                                                                                                        ecosystem.  more than likely it would just be a fine
                                                                                                        if caught.  it would be confiscated at the checkpoint,
                                                                                                        if there is actually anyone there.  i just came back
                                                                                                        from reno and there was no inspections.lmao. could
                                                                                                        have brought in anything i wanted.
                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

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                                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9596 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: curosity of Why I -
                                                                                                        as i already have aquarium salt on hand for use in my sw tank i use it for salt dips/treatments, etc. but if i didn't have it on hand i would use something else less expensive also.

                                                                                                        Steve <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        Ray,

                                                                                                        If the salt is for treatment, I'll use kosher salt or similar. If the salt
                                                                                                        is for a brackish tank setup, then, without question, I'll use the marine
                                                                                                        salt. If I am attempting to keep fish that require a hard alkaline water,
                                                                                                        I'll use a formula of different salts. I've seen no need to buy or use
                                                                                                        "aquarium" salt.

                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                        From: Ray Wetzel [mailto:sevenspringss@...]
                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 1:03 AM
                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: curosity of Why I -




                                                                                                        Lorie,  While on the surface, that may seem like a good suggestion.
                                                                                                        However, I would just like to point out that aquarium salt is the
                                                                                                        exact same thing as Kosher salt (pure Sodium Chloride), only much
                                                                                                        more expensive.  Unless we're talking about aquarium Marine salt,
                                                                                                        which contains all the trace elements (in addition to Sodium
                                                                                                        Chloride) found in ocean water, which is even more expensive yet and
                                                                                                        unnecessary.  Why go to the additional expense when you don't need
                                                                                                        to?  Cordially, Ray
                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lorie Melburn
                                                                                                        <nutsaboutnandays@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > We all have to learn some way. I don't know every thing there is to
                                                                                                        know my self. Is it better to add salt made for fish tanks that pet
                                                                                                        shop carrie? I am dumb too at alot of things too. That is why I
                                                                                                        joined this group, so that I could learn more about taking care of my
                                                                                                        fish. I don't think your dumb Stacy, I really think your very smart
                                                                                                        at alot of things. Like me, fish are new to you.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >     I have alot to learn about alot of things myself.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >                       Lorie
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                        >  Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!






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                                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9597 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
                                                                                                        yeah i know cal doesn't carry them but figured oregon would -- they are very liberal about things that even cal isn't. but alas, could not find any near my parents' house up there. oh well, from the photos on glofish.com they didn't look as if they glowed as bright as i thought they might.

                                                                                                        paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        they were banned in california before most stores
                                                                                                        could even get in their first shipments.
                                                                                                        --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        > i tried to get some when i was in oregon visiting my
                                                                                                        > parents and they don't even sell them near
                                                                                                        > their house (in eugene) anymore. i'm not sure why,
                                                                                                        > but maybe their novelty has worn off?
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > > good point pat.  did you know the glofish are
                                                                                                        > illegal
                                                                                                        > > in CA?
                                                                                                        > > they were only sold for a few months here
                                                                                                        > > --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                        > > <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        > > >     Exactly.  Great points.  It took early
                                                                                                        > > > agriculturalists centuries, or
                                                                                                        > > > longer, to genetically modify cattle and grains
                                                                                                        > to
                                                                                                        > > > the point that they could
                                                                                                        > > > sustain civilization without having to hunt for
                                                                                                        > food
                                                                                                        > > > all the time.  Now we
                                                                                                        > > > can genetically modify rice to grow in any
                                                                                                        > condition
                                                                                                        > > > to feed every person in
                                                                                                        > > > Africa in a few months, but extremists would
                                                                                                        > rather
                                                                                                        > > > let them all starve to
                                                                                                        > > > death.  All of it is this fear of technology,
                                                                                                        > and
                                                                                                        > > > the belief that humans are
                                                                                                        > > > bad, so any technology we develop to help
                                                                                                        > ourselves
                                                                                                        > > > (or even nature, in the
                                                                                                        > > > case of glofish) continue to survive is bad.
                                                                                                        > People
                                                                                                        > > > forget, glofish were
                                                                                                        > > > made to detect pollution before it wiped out an
                                                                                                        > > > ecosystem.  When you buy one
                                                                                                        > > > of these fish, it goes to the company that helps
                                                                                                        > > > find pollution.  If
                                                                                                        > > > anything, environmentalists should be happy
                                                                                                        > about
                                                                                                        > > > them.
                                                                                                        > > >     Could you imagine how a kid would feel if
                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                        > > > gene his family had for
                                                                                                        > > > centuries that caused a certain disease,
                                                                                                        > sickle-cell
                                                                                                        > > > for example, was
                                                                                                        > > > changed and the kids at school were allowed to
                                                                                                        > call
                                                                                                        > > > him names, and even
                                                                                                        > > > encouraged by teachers, because he had been
                                                                                                        > messed
                                                                                                        > > > with and was no longer
                                                                                                        > > > human?
                                                                                                        > > > 
                                                                                                        > > > Patrick
                                                                                                        > > > 
                                                                                                        > > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                        > > > GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT people!
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > >            
                                                                                                        > > __________________________________
                                                                                                        > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                        > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources
                                                                                                        > site!
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                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9598 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
                                                                                                        We had them here in kansas the pet store had them for like $5.99 a
                                                                                                        piece and when the new people bought the pet store they put them in
                                                                                                        with danios at 0.99 cents. They never have reordered anymore I guess
                                                                                                        people didn't get to excited about them.

                                                                                                        > yeah i know cal doesn't carry them but figured oregon would -- they
                                                                                                        are very liberal about things that even cal isn't. but alas, could
                                                                                                        not find any near my parents' house up there. oh well, from the
                                                                                                        photos on glofish.com they didn't look as if they glowed as bright as
                                                                                                        i thought they might.
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9599 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Pleco problems
                                                                                                            I guess they mean melafix? :)  I think I remember reading that the fins of a pleco get holes in them as they grow, so they will probably go away on their own if that is the problem.  Or it could be water quality.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Patrick
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                        > My pleco has holes in his fins.  Everything tests fine.  This is my
                                                                                                        > last fish, please help!
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > *A J*
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                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9600 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Pleco problems

                                                                                                        We are having pleco probs too.  Ours has turned a light brown in spots, and it’s spreading.  Any ideas?

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                        From: Patrick, American Fish Guy [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 8:33 PM
                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco problems

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                            I guess they mean melafix? :)  I think I remember reading that the fins of a pleco get holes in them as they grow, so they will probably go away on their own if that is the problem.  Or it could be water quality.

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Patrick

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                        > My pleco has holes in his fins.  Everything tests fine.  This is my
                                                                                                        > last fish, please help!
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > *A J*

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                         

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                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9601 From: Josef Ebejer Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Sexing Rams and Question

                                                                                                        Hi Rob,

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Me too it is a new hobby for me and I find it very relaxing….by the way my name is Josef and I come from Malta

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Josef

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                        From: Guess? [mailto:rhickey@...]
                                                                                                        Sent: 24 March 2005 12:18
                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Sexing Rams and Question

                                                                                                         


                                                                                                        Hi

                                                                                                        Im New to this list , My name is Rob And I live in Ireland, Im new
                                                                                                        ish to tropical tanks, (Spent the last year looking after my
                                                                                                        girlfriends 4 goldfish So have learned alot about keeping fish)but
                                                                                                        have been around fish for a long time, and finally took the plunge
                                                                                                        and now I have the bug in large amounts,

                                                                                                        I just want firstly to say hi to everyone,

                                                                                                        My first tank is going to be a biotope south american blackwater
                                                                                                        creek kinda theme , I have my tank a few months now its cycled and I
                                                                                                        have purchased two rams, from the LFS and told they were a male and
                                                                                                        female,

                                                                                                        I have looked a pictures And pages and pages of reference so I know
                                                                                                        ish how to tell them apart, but I think there two males, They ewach
                                                                                                        have a side of the tank with caves And plants to hide in, they do
                                                                                                        seem to get on, as there not always at each other And Will Some times
                                                                                                        sit together but then for no reason start one with go for the other
                                                                                                        sometimes they lock heads and sometimes one just backs off, but then
                                                                                                        sometimes they see each other and seem to not mind.,

                                                                                                        Any help?
                                                                                                        I can post pictures later from home if that will help?

                                                                                                        Also Feeding what to feed them? they touch flake but there always on
                                                                                                        the mid to bottom of the tank so the food just floats there same With
                                                                                                        freeze dried blood worm, frozen brine shrimp and blood worm does
                                                                                                        kinda the Same once I leave it for a bit first then put it into the
                                                                                                        tank.

                                                                                                        What about pellets?

                                                                                                        Any help would be greatly received

                                                                                                        Rob





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                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9602 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Pleco problems
                                                                                                        try taking a look at his belly. is it concaved in or is it clearly full? if it is concaved, he is not getting enough to eat. Does he have any hiding places and how is the water?
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9603 From: Amalthea Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Pleco problems
                                                                                                        my pleco, who had finally stopped growing, or so i thought, suddenly
                                                                                                        seems to have grown a few inches just today! it's the craziest thing.
                                                                                                        he's in a 55 gallon, but i might end up having to get rid of him if he
                                                                                                        gets much longer.
                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                        http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                        Don't be Afraid to Scream....
                                                                                                        On Mar 24, 2005, at 10:42 PM, clarkmariposo25@... wrote:

                                                                                                        > try taking a look at his belly. is it concaved in or is it clearly
                                                                                                        > full? if it is concaved, he is not getting enough to eat. Does he have
                                                                                                        > any hiding places and how is the water?
                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9604 From: paul helms Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
                                                                                                        yes we do have check points with random inspections,
                                                                                                        to ensure that non native species that have been
                                                                                                        banned are not brought into the stae. some examples
                                                                                                        are ferrits, pirranhas, certain fruits and vegetables
                                                                                                        known to be infested with insects, certain plants,
                                                                                                        etc. generally they just ask and let ya go, i think
                                                                                                        like 1 in a 1,000 is actually checked. with the
                                                                                                        limited funding this year, many days they just say to
                                                                                                        drive through on a disgn and no one is there. they
                                                                                                        have them between nevada and ca, oregon and ca, mexico
                                                                                                        and ca, etc.
                                                                                                        paul.
                                                                                                        --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                        <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        > You mean you have border crossings in CA?
                                                                                                        > Sounds quite unconstitutional
                                                                                                        > to me. Here is why the Federal government has
                                                                                                        > jurisdiction, the
                                                                                                        > constitution gives the Feds the power to control
                                                                                                        > "interstate commerce". No
                                                                                                        > state should have any power to patrol the borders
                                                                                                        > between their state and
                                                                                                        > another. Once a crime involves crossing a state
                                                                                                        > line, it is covered by the
                                                                                                        > FBI. If you kidnap some kid and dump them in an
                                                                                                        > Arizona candy store with a
                                                                                                        > blank check, the FBI will investigate why they got
                                                                                                        > so fat.
                                                                                                        > With that said, I've heard about check points in
                                                                                                        > CA, but I thought they
                                                                                                        > were between there and Mexico. Do you really have
                                                                                                        > check points between CA
                                                                                                        > and other US states? How could they do that? When
                                                                                                        > they are manned, what do
                                                                                                        > they look for?
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Patrick
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                        > it would be illegal, but i do not think it is a
                                                                                                        > federal problem, as it is not a lethal threat to the
                                                                                                        > ecosystem. more than likely it would just be a fine
                                                                                                        > if caught. it would be confiscated at the
                                                                                                        > checkpoint,
                                                                                                        > if there is actually anyone there. i just came back
                                                                                                        > from reno and there was no inspections.lmao. could
                                                                                                        > have brought in anything i wanted.



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                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9605 From: paul helms Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: glofish
                                                                                                        you are 100% correct ron. pat may be referring to the
                                                                                                        intranet setup in corportae offices, where systems
                                                                                                        access the net through routers or gateways if their
                                                                                                        port 80 has not been locked out through acl lists.
                                                                                                        --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        > Actually, the internet was developed to transer
                                                                                                        > information for the
                                                                                                        > military. DARPA funded the development of DARPANET
                                                                                                        > to be distributed so
                                                                                                        > that communications could get through even if major
                                                                                                        > portions of the US no
                                                                                                        > longer existed (nuclear war).
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Patrick, American Fish Guy said:
                                                                                                        > > I didn't mean to imply that they were
                                                                                                        > pointless. I think they are a
                                                                                                        > > great tool to protect the environment. I just
                                                                                                        > meant that in addition to
                                                                                                        > > that important job their creators thought they
                                                                                                        > could sell them as pets.
                                                                                                        > > It
                                                                                                        > > is like the internet was developed to transfer
                                                                                                        > information in companies,
                                                                                                        > > and
                                                                                                        > > then the idea was moved to regular people. Only I
                                                                                                        > don't think the
                                                                                                        > > internet
                                                                                                        > > was banned in CA, and I don't think the novelty
                                                                                                        > will ware off any time
                                                                                                        > > soon.
                                                                                                        > > :)
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > > Patrick
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9606 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Pleco problems
                                                                                                        Plecos grow real fast. Most people do not realize that when they purchase them. if you have to get rid of your pleco, try asking people who have ponds might want him or pet stores can take him and sell him. Then if you need an algae eater, try a Siamese algae eater of Chinese they are Excellent little cleaners that are always searching for food and they do not grow to big! check out the following link for details.
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9607 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          I went in the site and it said forbidden you don't have access to the site. 
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Date: 03/23/05 02:45:51
                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots Brown Spots
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Hi steve

                                                                                                          THe site that we are talking about is the
                                                                                                          www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk it has alot of info in
                                                                                                          it and there is a good bunch of info about the Dyed
                                                                                                          fish thing! It is a campaign that is trying to stop
                                                                                                          the "production" of genetically modified and unnatural
                                                                                                          fish!

                                                                                                          Nigel
                                                                                                          --- Steve <steve@familyszabo.com> wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Joseph,
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Could you please cite the study to which you refer?
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9608 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
                                                                                                          In a message dated 3/23/05 4:22:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                                                                                                          wtfmorlok@... writes:

                                                                                                          << they were banned in california before most stores
                                                                                                          could even get in their first shipments. >>
                                                                                                          yes, I recall that. I also recall people selling them and advertising them
                                                                                                          on craigslist.org at the time.

                                                                                                          Mike
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9609 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine (was - "Re: [AquaticLife] Blo
                                                                                                          Aaron,
                                                                                                          I have seen it at Tower Books in the Past as well as one of the larger chain
                                                                                                          bookstores. sorry but the name escapes me at the moment.
                                                                                                          Mike

                                                                                                          << --- Aaron Alcoholic <anonymous122899@...> wrote:
                                                                                                          > where can I get "The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine"
                                                                                                          > >>
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9610 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
                                                                                                              No wonder there are budget problems, I can't imagine a state spending so much money for something so illegal.  The federal government might allow CA to do this, but if they didn't pass the law to allow it, it is unconstitutional.  I would argue that it is even if there was a law passed in congress, unless the checkpoints are manned by federal agents, but I doubt that would hold up in even the strictest court.
                                                                                                              Then there is the full faith and credit clause, which applies to laws and litigation.  If it is legal to own a glofish in Nevada, and you buy one there and bring it back to CA, well, maybe I should have been a lawyer?  But property is property in any state, and cannot be taken from you under the 14th amendment, which says no state shall deprive anyone of life, liberty, or property without due process.  I would also argue that this is true for glofish.  They are legal to possess in other states, and CA can't remove them from your possession without a trial, a jury trial if you have $20 worth of them.  I think the governor might need to check into some of these laws to make sure they are legal, but that applies to a lot of other states that ban certain live animals and plants that are not banned in other states.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Patrick
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                          yes we do have check points with random inspections,
                                                                                                          to ensure that non native species that have been
                                                                                                          banned are not brought into the stae.  some examples
                                                                                                          are ferrits, pirranhas, certain fruits and vegetables
                                                                                                          known to be infested with insects, certain plants,
                                                                                                          etc.  generally they just ask and let ya go, i think
                                                                                                          like 1 in a 1,000 is actually checked.  with the
                                                                                                          limited funding this year, many days they just say to
                                                                                                          drive through on a disgn and no one is there. they
                                                                                                          have them between nevada and ca, oregon and ca, mexico
                                                                                                          and ca, etc.
                                                                                                          paul.
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                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9611 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: glofish
                                                                                                           "you are 100% correct ron."
                                                                                                              Ok, that is English.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          "pat may be referring to the intranet setup in corportae offices, where systems access the net through routers or gateways if their port 80 has not been locked out through acl lists."
                                                                                                              What language is that?routers and port 80's, locked out of an acl list?  Huh? :)
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Patrick
                                                                                                          Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9612 From: Aaron Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine
                                                                                                          Thanks Mike,

                                                                                                          I was at several LFS today looking at magazines. Didn't think to
                                                                                                          check the Bookstores, however I was browsing the Magazine aile at
                                                                                                          the grocery store and ended up looking at cars in consumer reports
                                                                                                          instead - forgot what I was looking for out of context of the fish
                                                                                                          store.

                                                                                                          None of the Magazines really impressed me, all tried to touch on a
                                                                                                          little bit of everything instead of focusing on a general topic like
                                                                                                          just Freshwater or just reefs or just planted aquariums etc...

                                                                                                          Aaron

                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@a... wrote:
                                                                                                          > Aaron,
                                                                                                          > I have seen it at Tower Books in the Past as well as one of the
                                                                                                          larger chain
                                                                                                          > bookstores. sorry but the name escapes me at the moment.
                                                                                                          > Mike
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9613 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/24/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: American Livebearer Association (ALA) Convention, 4/8/2005, 12:00 a
                                                                                                          Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                          American Livebearer Association (ALA) Convention

                                                                                                          Friday April 8, 2005
                                                                                                          All Day
                                                                                                          This event repeats every day, until Monday April 11, 2005.
                                                                                                          The next reminder for this event will be sent in 11 days, 23 hours, 4 minutes.

                                                                                                          Event Location: Indianapolis
                                                                                                          Notes:
                                                                                                          livebearers.org

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                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9614 From: paul helms Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: glofish
                                                                                                          DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT

                                                                                                          --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                          <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                          > "you are 100% correct ron."
                                                                                                          > Ok, that is English.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > "pat may be referring to the intranet setup in
                                                                                                          > corportae offices, where
                                                                                                          > systems access the net through routers or gateways
                                                                                                          > if their port 80 has not
                                                                                                          > been locked out through acl lists."
                                                                                                          > What language is that?routers and port 80's,
                                                                                                          > locked out of an acl list?
                                                                                                          > Huh? :)
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Patrick



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                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9615 From: paul helms Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: The DYed and unnatural fish
                                                                                                          well you are off base there pat, a state can ban
                                                                                                          animals inf it so desires, and does not have to allow
                                                                                                          them to be there. the offending animals must stay in
                                                                                                          the other state, whether the person wishes to remain
                                                                                                          there with it, or surrender it to the checkpoint is
                                                                                                          entirtely up to them. just because you can buy a
                                                                                                          thermo nuclear devise in russia, does not mean you can
                                                                                                          bring it here, even though it would be your property.
                                                                                                          i know it is two different things, but you get the
                                                                                                          point. fines can be levied if they are brought in,
                                                                                                          against the law, but not for having them at the
                                                                                                          station. much like pitt bulls in certain countoes in
                                                                                                          florida. there are large fines for them, because they
                                                                                                          have been banned. not by the fed but by the county.
                                                                                                          there is a big difference between legal property and
                                                                                                          illegal property. contra band.
                                                                                                          --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                          <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                          > No wonder there are budget problems, I can't
                                                                                                          > imagine a state spending so
                                                                                                          > much money for something so illegal. The federal
                                                                                                          > government might allow CA
                                                                                                          > to do this, but if they didn't pass the law to allow
                                                                                                          > it, it is
                                                                                                          > unconstitutional. I would argue that it is even if
                                                                                                          > there was a law passed
                                                                                                          > in congress, unless the checkpoints are manned by
                                                                                                          > federal agents, but I
                                                                                                          > doubt that would hold up in even the strictest
                                                                                                          > court.
                                                                                                          > Then there is the full faith and credit clause,
                                                                                                          > which applies to laws
                                                                                                          > and litigation. If it is legal to own a glofish in
                                                                                                          > Nevada, and you buy one
                                                                                                          > there and bring it back to CA, well, maybe I should
                                                                                                          > have been a lawyer? But
                                                                                                          > property is property in any state, and cannot be
                                                                                                          > taken from you under the
                                                                                                          > 14th amendment, which says no state shall deprive
                                                                                                          > anyone of life, liberty,
                                                                                                          > or property without due process. I would also argue
                                                                                                          > that this is true for
                                                                                                          > glofish. They are legal to possess in other states,
                                                                                                          > and CA can't remove
                                                                                                          > them from your possession without a trial, a jury
                                                                                                          > trial if you have $20
                                                                                                          > worth of them. I think the governor might need to
                                                                                                          > check into some of these
                                                                                                          > laws to make sure they are legal, but that applies
                                                                                                          > to a lot of other states
                                                                                                          > that ban certain live animals and plants that are
                                                                                                          > not banned in other states
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Patrick
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                          > yes we do have check points with random inspections,
                                                                                                          > to ensure that non native species that have been
                                                                                                          > banned are not brought into the stae. some examples
                                                                                                          > are ferrits, pirranhas, certain fruits and
                                                                                                          > vegetables
                                                                                                          > known to be infested with insects, certain plants,
                                                                                                          > etc. generally they just ask and let ya go, i think
                                                                                                          > like 1 in a 1,000 is actually checked. with the
                                                                                                          > limited funding this year, many days they just say
                                                                                                          > to
                                                                                                          > drive through on a disgn and no one is there. they
                                                                                                          > have them between nevada and ca, oregon and ca,
                                                                                                          > mexico
                                                                                                          > and ca, etc.
                                                                                                          > paul.



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                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9616 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
                                                                                                          Mariah, One other suggestion: You might want to consider painting
                                                                                                          the inside of the tub with a non-toxic rubber based swimming pool
                                                                                                          paint or paint made especially for fish ponds. Fish pond paint
                                                                                                          usually comes in either dark grey or black, whereas swimming pool
                                                                                                          paint comes in blue, green and aqua. The reason for this is that the
                                                                                                          white coloration of the tub will wash out the colors of the fish you
                                                                                                          put in there. They'll remain looking very pale after a while.
                                                                                                          Regards, Ray
                                                                                                          \
                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Mariah Young <mariahbyoung@n...>
                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Thanks to all who have given suggestions for my bathtub tank. I am
                                                                                                          > still doing some research and will report back with more questions
                                                                                                          as I
                                                                                                          > go along and photos of course.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Thanks,
                                                                                                          > Mariah in Santa Monica
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9617 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: glofish
                                                                                                          I guess that WASN'T what you were referring to. ;-)

                                                                                                          It's geek-speak (computerese). Don't worry, I'm fluent in it and I knew
                                                                                                          what he meant.

                                                                                                          Your message passed through routers and gateways via port 80 to get to us.


                                                                                                          Patrick, American Fish Guy said:
                                                                                                          > "you are 100% correct ron."
                                                                                                          > Ok, that is English.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > "pat may be referring to the intranet setup in corportae offices, where
                                                                                                          > systems access the net through routers or gateways if their port 80 has
                                                                                                          > not
                                                                                                          > been locked out through acl lists."
                                                                                                          > What language is that?routers and port 80's, locked out of an acl
                                                                                                          > list?
                                                                                                          > Huh? :)
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Patrick
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9618 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: glofish

                                                                                                          Lol, mine passed thru 80, 25 and then 110

                                                                                                          Hehe

                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                           


                                                                                                          From: Ron Hansen [mailto:yahoo1@...]
                                                                                                          Sent: 25 March 2005 15:32
                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] glofish

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          I guess that WASN'T what you were referring to.  ;-)

                                                                                                          It's geek-speak (computerese).  Don't worry, I'm fluent in it and I knew
                                                                                                          what he meant.

                                                                                                          Your message passed through routers and gateways via port 80 to get to us.


                                                                                                          Patrick, American Fish Guy said:
                                                                                                          >  "you are 100% correct ron."
                                                                                                          >     Ok, that is English.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > "pat may be referring to the intranet setup in corportae offices, where
                                                                                                          > systems access the net through routers or gateways if their port 80 has
                                                                                                          > not
                                                                                                          > been locked out through acl lists."
                                                                                                          >     What language is that?routers and port 80's, locked out of an acl
                                                                                                          > list?
                                                                                                          > Huh? :)
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Patrick




                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9619 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
                                                                                                          that's a really good idea.. seems that it would hid the algae better too... Shannon
                                                                                                          Mariah,  One other suggestion:  You might want to consider painting
                                                                                                          the inside of the tub with a non-toxic rubber based swimming pool
                                                                                                          paint or paint made especially for fish ponds.  Fish pond paint
                                                                                                          usually comes in either dark grey or black, whereas swimming pool
                                                                                                          paint comes in blue, green and aqua.  The reason for this is that the
                                                                                                          white coloration of the tub will wash out the colors of the fish you
                                                                                                          put in there.  They'll remain looking very pale after a while. 
                                                                                                          Regards,  Ray 
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9620 From: pam phetteplace Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Hi all New to group and fishkeeping....Piranahs on Oregon ....bo

                                                                                                          Hi all

                                                                                                          I am new to group/fishkeeping and from  Oregon.

                                                                                                            Was at one of the lfs the other day and they had  a huge new tank like about 600 gallons (just a guess) with about 100 piranah in there.  That would be one of my last choices for a fish for myself.  I like friendly critters. 

                                                                                                           Anyway.....what I know about the boarder check is that they are looking for fruit .....only.   They want to try and make sure nobody brings the apples from granny's yard that are unsprayed and have worms that could infect the agriculture in california.

                                                                                                          happy fishkeeping all

                                                                                                          Pam

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                           


                                                                                                          Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                          Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9621 From: Ed Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: New to group
                                                                                                          Hello there, I am new to this group as of today. Just a bit about
                                                                                                          myself, I am currently breeding a few various strains of show
                                                                                                          quality guppies. I also am just getting into the marine hobby with
                                                                                                          a 125 gallon reef tank. I live in utah, 21 years old, and am a full
                                                                                                          time student. I work for a brine shrimp processing company here
                                                                                                          just off the great salt lake, so anyone out there that may need
                                                                                                          brine shrimp eggs, drop me a line. I can get you the stuff for a
                                                                                                          LOT cheaper than you are currently getting it. I never mind helping
                                                                                                          out other members of the hobby :) I look forward to learning from
                                                                                                          this group, catch you all later,

                                                                                                          Ed Parker
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9622 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New to group
                                                                                                          Hello and Welcome,Eric~
                                                                                                          My name is Stacey,live in West Virginia. I have 2-mollies,Pair of Guppies,1-Jenday Conure Parrot,2-Budgies,1-cockatiel,3-Dogs,3-ringneck doves,along with a 2 day old baby dove. I am thinking of breeding my guppies and mollies Iost my male molly and will be buying couple more next week. I am crazy for having all of these pets what do you think. I am fairly new to- so am I at this fish hobby.
                                                                                                          Take care----
                                                                                                          Stacey and her Crew!

                                                                                                          Ed <mantellaprince20@...> wrote:

                                                                                                          Hello there, I am new to this group as of today.  Just a bit about
                                                                                                          myself, I am currently breeding a few various strains of show
                                                                                                          quality guppies.  I also am just getting into the marine hobby with
                                                                                                          a 125 gallon reef tank.  I live in utah, 21 years old, and am a full
                                                                                                          time student.  I work for a brine shrimp processing company here
                                                                                                          just off the great salt lake, so anyone out there that may need
                                                                                                          brine shrimp eggs, drop me a line.  I can get you the stuff for a
                                                                                                          LOT cheaper than you are currently getting it.  I never mind helping
                                                                                                          out other members of the hobby :)  I look forward to learning from
                                                                                                          this group, catch you all later,

                                                                                                          Ed Parker





                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9623 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: The Pratical Fish Keeper magazine
                                                                                                          In a message dated 3/24/05 11:46:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                                                                                                          massagetherapist@... writes:

                                                                                                          << Thanks Mike,

                                                                                                          I was at several LFS today looking at magazines. Didn't think to
                                                                                                          check the Bookstores, however I was browsing the Magazine aile at
                                                                                                          the grocery store and ended up looking at cars in consumer reports
                                                                                                          instead - forgot what I was looking for out of context of the fish
                                                                                                          store.

                                                                                                          None of the Magazines really impressed me, all tried to touch on a
                                                                                                          little bit of everything instead of focusing on a general topic like
                                                                                                          just Freshwater or just reefs or just planted aquariums etc...

                                                                                                          Aaron
                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                          Hi Aaron,
                                                                                                          My wife just reminded me which bookstore I saw PFK in. It was in Borders in
                                                                                                          Pleasanton, you can see it from the I 580. Hacienda exit, near Walmart and
                                                                                                          the new Kohls store.

                                                                                                          Mike
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9624 From: krampetz Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
                                                                                                          A friend brought back pictures of a Florida Fish Farm tour, where he
                                                                                                          saw many concrete crypts - yes, used to hold buried coffins! - that
                                                                                                          were used as grow-out tanks. Evidently they are cheap to buy during
                                                                                                          the 'slow season' ..

                                                                                                          Bob

                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Mariah Young <mariahbyoung@n...>
                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Thanks to all who have given suggestions for my bathtub tank. I am
                                                                                                          > still doing some research and will report back with more questions
                                                                                                          as I
                                                                                                          > go along and photos of course.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Thanks,
                                                                                                          > Mariah in Santa Monica
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9625 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
                                                                                                          In a message dated 3/25/2005 4:30:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, Krampetz@... writes:
                                                                                                          A friend brought back pictures of a Florida Fish Farm tour, where he
                                                                                                          saw many concrete crypts - yes, used to hold buried coffins! - that
                                                                                                          were used as grow-out tanks.  Evidently they are cheap to buy during
                                                                                                          the 'slow season' ..
                                                                                                          Egads... LOL! I'm not gonna ask... =O
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          :::there's a slow season?:::
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9626 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
                                                                                                          Slow Season?  Maybe thats when its not hurricane season?  Gotta admit, I wouldn't have thouht of that use for coffins.  Wonder how many gallons that would be
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                          Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 1:35 PM
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: bathtub as tank

                                                                                                          In a message dated 3/25/2005 4:30:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, Krampetz@... writes:
                                                                                                          A friend brought back pictures of a Florida Fish Farm tour, where he
                                                                                                          saw many concrete crypts - yes, used to hold buried coffins! - that
                                                                                                          were used as grow-out tanks.  Evidently they are cheap to buy during
                                                                                                          the 'slow season' ..
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9627 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New to group
                                                                                                          Hi Ed, Welcome to the Group; hope you enjoy it. That brine shrimp
                                                                                                          processing job sounds pretty interesting. I'm sure the people on
                                                                                                          this forum will be more than happy to give you any help. Fancy
                                                                                                          guppies are really a challenge to keep a good strain going. What
                                                                                                          varieties are you breeding? Ray
                                                                                                          \
                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ed" <mantellaprince20@y...>
                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Hello there, I am new to this group as of today. Just a bit about
                                                                                                          > myself, I am currently breeding a few various strains of show
                                                                                                          > quality guppies. I also am just getting into the marine hobby with
                                                                                                          > a 125 gallon reef tank. I live in utah, 21 years old, and am a
                                                                                                          full
                                                                                                          > time student. I work for a brine shrimp processing company here
                                                                                                          > just off the great salt lake, so anyone out there that may need
                                                                                                          > brine shrimp eggs, drop me a line. I can get you the stuff for a
                                                                                                          > LOT cheaper than you are currently getting it. I never mind
                                                                                                          helping
                                                                                                          > out other members of the hobby :) I look forward to learning from
                                                                                                          > this group, catch you all later,
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Ed Parker
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9628 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Pleco problems

                                                                                                          I don’t think his stomach is concaved but I’ll stick some cucumber in there tonight along with some extra algae wafers.

                                                                                                          I wouldn’t doubt if that were the problem as the tank is only a few weeks old.  I can’t imagine there would be much in there for him to eat at this point.

                                                                                                          Thanks for the heads up.  I’ll keep an eye on him.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                          From: clarkmariposo25@... [mailto:clarkmariposo25@...]
                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 9:42 PM
                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco problems

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          try taking a look at his belly. is it concaved in or is it clearly full? if it is concaved, he is not getting enough to eat. Does he have any hiding places and how is the water?

                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9629 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Timed feeders?

                                                                                                          We are going out of town for a week and I need to know how to feed these guys while we are gone.  We have some timed feeders that came with the tank but I don’t know how they work at all.  (individual plastic rounds that take batteries is what we have.)

                                                                                                          I’d like to get something very user friendly and that can feed a few types of food at varied intervals.  Thanks for any suggestions.

                                                                                                          ~L

                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9630 From: Linda Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: New to the group as of 03/25/2005
                                                                                                          Hi my name is Linda. I am new to this group. I have joined a few
                                                                                                          groups regarding Betta. I have 2 male Betta. My first Betta I
                                                                                                          purchased at Walmart in Charlotte Michigan. I first went to the
                                                                                                          Meijer store and they only had 2. Neither one I would care to adopt.
                                                                                                          Charlotte had a few to choose from, and I chose Oscar. He was the
                                                                                                          only one that was not with the other males but with the Females. He
                                                                                                          is a kinda deep red with kind of bluish to him. He is a people fish
                                                                                                          as I can tell as he likes to follow my finger and he has made me a
                                                                                                          bubble nest.

                                                                                                          Rasco I had purchased from a Solidans pet store in Charlotte. He is
                                                                                                          kind of timid. He likes to eat, but he is not as friendly as Oscar.
                                                                                                          He has yet made a bubble nest for me.

                                                                                                          I am new to the Betta, but with the help of a couple of websites I
                                                                                                          had found I am learning.

                                                                                                          Oscar started out in a Betta Vase with a peace lilly and glass
                                                                                                          stones. The vase was a large one. I just was tired of removing the
                                                                                                          peace lilly on and off when I was going to feed him. I had purchased
                                                                                                          an "Ivy Bowl" for Rasco and then decided it was too small. I then
                                                                                                          went to another vase that was the size of a medium goldfish bowl. I
                                                                                                          could tell that they were not very happy as they still did not have
                                                                                                          room to do their excersise. I learned that 1 gallon tank was good as
                                                                                                          that would give them room to do their flips and flops and if meds
                                                                                                          were ever needed, it would be easier to administer meds as they
                                                                                                          usually require drops to 1 gal of water.

                                                                                                          Yes, everytime I stop at the store I purchase at least 6 gallons
                                                                                                          of "Spring Water" I also learned that they like warm water between
                                                                                                          75-80 degrees. It is hard to keep the water warmer than 72 degrees
                                                                                                          using a 40 watt bulb, so....I ended up getting two 2.5 gallon tanks
                                                                                                          and a couple of heaters.
                                                                                                          Oscar is just loving his tank, it is up to 80 degrees and he has made
                                                                                                          me another "Bubble Nest".

                                                                                                          Rasco's tank is up to 76 now and I will be putting him in his new
                                                                                                          home in just a few minutes as he is still in his 1 gallon tank with
                                                                                                          nothing in it as I rinsed everything off in hot water and put it in
                                                                                                          his new home.

                                                                                                          Now here comes the questions...

                                                                                                          An Whisper, Micro Filter came with the 2.5 gal tanks. Do I also need
                                                                                                          to use them with the Betta?

                                                                                                          I have purchased 4 different kinds of betta
                                                                                                          food, ....flakes, "TetraMin" The Rich Mix, (good for Bettas), Wardley
                                                                                                          Betta Premium Food and "Aqua Culture" Betta pellet Food (Color-
                                                                                                          Enhancing Fish Food).

                                                                                                          I try to feed them at least twice a day. In the morning before I go
                                                                                                          to work, and when I get home from work. Once in a while I will give
                                                                                                          them a treat of "Blood Worms" before bed time.
                                                                                                          I give them the flakes first, then if they eat them I will give them
                                                                                                          a pellet, then another pellet.

                                                                                                          I have thought of growing live food ( sea monkeys or brine shrimp) I
                                                                                                          ended up finding Triops. Can Triops be used for live food for the
                                                                                                          betta?

                                                                                                          Any one have any suggestions that may help me?

                                                                                                          Betta smooches from Oscar and Rasco in Olivet Michigan
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9631 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Blood Parrots ~ Black Spot Disease

                                                                                                          Thought to be a parasite.  Here’s a link to a simply put explanation.  Just an FYI in case someone else come here w/ the same concern.

                                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/parrotcichlid/healthcare.html

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9632 From: Aaron Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New to group
                                                                                                          Hi Ed,

                                                                                                          Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                          Do you guys sell the brine shrimp eggs without the shell?

                                                                                                          I've read methods of removing the shell myself that include soaking
                                                                                                          in bleach, but I'm not sure about risking it.

                                                                                                          Eggs without the shell are supposed to be as good or better than
                                                                                                          baby brine shrimp that just hatched.

                                                                                                          Anybody else heard of it?

                                                                                                          Thanks,
                                                                                                          Aaron


                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ed" <mantellaprince20@y...>
                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Hello there, I am new to this group as of today. Just a bit about
                                                                                                          > myself, I am currently breeding a few various strains of show
                                                                                                          > quality guppies. I also am just getting into the marine hobby
                                                                                                          with
                                                                                                          > a 125 gallon reef tank. I live in utah, 21 years old, and am a
                                                                                                          full
                                                                                                          > time student. I work for a brine shrimp processing company here
                                                                                                          > just off the great salt lake, so anyone out there that may need
                                                                                                          > brine shrimp eggs, drop me a line. I can get you the stuff for a
                                                                                                          > LOT cheaper than you are currently getting it. I never mind
                                                                                                          helping
                                                                                                          > out other members of the hobby :) I look forward to learning from
                                                                                                          > this group, catch you all later,
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Ed Parker
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9633 From: Amalthea Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Pleco problems
                                                                                                          when you have a pleco, you can't depend on the tank's algae to feed
                                                                                                          him! you must also feed them algae wafers and preferably some veggies
                                                                                                          (zucchini, cabbage, etc) or they'll starve.
                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                          Do evil clowns give you a funny feeling? Join us at:
                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/puppetterrors/
                                                                                                          All the cool kids are doing it....
                                                                                                          On Mar 25, 2005, at 5:39 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                                          > I don’t think his stomach is concaved but I’ll stick some cucumber in
                                                                                                          > there tonight along with some extra algae wafers.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > I wouldn’t doubt if that were the problem as the tank is only a few
                                                                                                          > weeks old.  I can’t imagine there would be much in there for him to
                                                                                                          > eat at this point.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Thanks for the heads up.  I’ll keep an eye on him.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                          > From: clarkmariposo25@... [mailto:clarkmariposo25@...]
                                                                                                          > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 9:42 PM
                                                                                                          > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco problems
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > try taking a look at his belly. is it concaved in or is it clearly
                                                                                                          > full? if it is concaved, he is not getting enough to eat. Does he have
                                                                                                          > any hiding places and how is the water?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          > .
                                                                                                          > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                          > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                          > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                          > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          > .
                                                                                                          > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                          > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                          > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                          > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9634 From: Ed Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New to group
                                                                                                          Hey Aaron,
                                                                                                          The process you are talking about is for decapsulated eggs I
                                                                                                          assume. They are supposed to be much better than hatching it out
                                                                                                          and feeding off the naupli, because they don't use any of their
                                                                                                          energy to hatch, and you have a 100 percent amount too feed, instead
                                                                                                          of the 80 to 90 percent that you would hatch out. At my company, we
                                                                                                          don't mass decapsulate eggs too sell, but if you are interested, I
                                                                                                          can get you exact instructions on how to do it. You could even
                                                                                                          practice on like 70 percent hatchout, which i have for like $10 for
                                                                                                          a pound. I have never myself decapsulated, but my mom does it all
                                                                                                          the time. Thanks for the welcome,

                                                                                                          Ed Parker


                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron" <massagetherapist@m...>
                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Hi Ed,
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Welcome to the group.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Do you guys sell the brine shrimp eggs without the shell?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > I've read methods of removing the shell myself that include
                                                                                                          soaking
                                                                                                          > in bleach, but I'm not sure about risking it.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Eggs without the shell are supposed to be as good or better than
                                                                                                          > baby brine shrimp that just hatched.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Anybody else heard of it?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Thanks,
                                                                                                          > Aaron
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ed" <mantellaprince20@y...>
                                                                                                          > wrote:
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > Hello there, I am new to this group as of today. Just a bit
                                                                                                          about
                                                                                                          > > myself, I am currently breeding a few various strains of show
                                                                                                          > > quality guppies. I also am just getting into the marine hobby
                                                                                                          > with
                                                                                                          > > a 125 gallon reef tank. I live in utah, 21 years old, and am a
                                                                                                          > full
                                                                                                          > > time student. I work for a brine shrimp processing company here
                                                                                                          > > just off the great salt lake, so anyone out there that may need
                                                                                                          > > brine shrimp eggs, drop me a line. I can get you the stuff for
                                                                                                          a
                                                                                                          > > LOT cheaper than you are currently getting it. I never mind
                                                                                                          > helping
                                                                                                          > > out other members of the hobby :) I look forward to learning
                                                                                                          from
                                                                                                          > > this group, catch you all later,
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > Ed Parker
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9635 From: helen572 Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: food for plecos
                                                                                                          I have a pleco and I'm concerned that he may not be getting enough
                                                                                                          food -- he's in with five large cichlids and he's cleaned up the algae
                                                                                                          in the 40-gallon tank real well. I put in an algae wafer, which the
                                                                                                          pleco latched onto, but one of the cichlids took it from him. I read
                                                                                                          somewhere that plecos are nocturnal, so I wait for about 15 minutes
                                                                                                          after I've put their lights out, then drop in an algae wafer in hopes
                                                                                                          the pleco gets it before the cichlids do. But I notice that when I put
                                                                                                          in flake food, or freeze-dried brine shrimp, the pleco goes to the
                                                                                                          surface of the water and I'm assuming that he's trying to get some of
                                                                                                          the food. I get the impression that the cichlids (S.A.convicts) will
                                                                                                          eat just about anything. Is there something you can recommend for the
                                                                                                          pleco that the cichlids won't eat?

                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amalthea <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                          > when you have a pleco, you can't depend on the tank's algae to feed
                                                                                                          > him! you must also feed them algae wafers and preferably some veggies
                                                                                                          > (zucchini, cabbage, etc) or they'll starve.
                                                                                                          > amalthea
                                                                                                          > Do evil clowns give you a funny feeling? Join us at:
                                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/puppetterrors/
                                                                                                          > All the cool kids are doing it....
                                                                                                          > On Mar 25, 2005, at 5:39 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > > I don't think his stomach is concaved but I'll stick some cucumber in
                                                                                                          > > there tonight along with some extra algae wafers.
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > I wouldn't doubt if that were the problem as the tank is only a few
                                                                                                          > > weeks old. I can't imagine there would be much in there for him to
                                                                                                          > > eat at this point.
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > Thanks for the heads up. I'll keep an eye on him.
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                          > > From: clarkmariposo25@a... [mailto:clarkmariposo25@a...]
                                                                                                          > > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 9:42 PM
                                                                                                          > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco problems
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > try taking a look at his belly. is it concaved in or is it clearly
                                                                                                          > > full? if it is concaved, he is not getting enough to eat. Does he
                                                                                                          have
                                                                                                          > > any hiding places and how is the water?
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          > > .
                                                                                                          > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                          > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                          > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                          > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          > > .
                                                                                                          > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                          > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                          > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                          > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                                                                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                          > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          > >
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                                                                                                          > > Service.
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9636 From: Aaron Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Blood Parrots
                                                                                                          came across this site:

                                                                                                          http://parrotcichlid.com/


                                                                                                          lots of similar questions and discussions like-

                                                                                                          "I have a painted parrot fish and need info"
                                                                                                          &
                                                                                                          "I was told at the pet shop where I bought my parrots that they are
                                                                                                          hybrid and do not breed."
                                                                                                          &
                                                                                                          "I was recently given a new parrot, but he looks very different
                                                                                                          from any parrot i've seen. He has the normal parrot body shape, but
                                                                                                          he is army green striped with black. He almost looks like a cross
                                                                                                          between a parrot and a convict.... has anybody ever seen this? He is
                                                                                                          eating and playing, and the water quality checked out fine, so he is
                                                                                                          not stressed (I think). Anybody have any ideas???"
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9637 From: Aaron Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Blood Parrots
                                                                                                          Another site with lots of info

                                                                                                          http://jimcurrie7733.tripod.com/jimcurriesbloodparrotpage/id12.html

                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron" <massagetherapist@m...>
                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > came across this site:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > http://parrotcichlid.com/
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9638 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Pleco problems

                                                                                                          I feed this guy algae wafers, cucumbers, veggie pellets and sinking shrimp pills.  No way he should still be hungry.  I have never depended on this hunk of junk tank for anything, much less keeping something fed.  I was born at night but not last night. =)

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                          From: Amalthea [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                                          Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 5:05 PM
                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco problems

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          when you have a pleco, you can't depend on the tank's algae to feed him! you must also feed them algae wafers and preferably some veggies (zucchini, cabbage, etc) or they'll starve.
                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                          Do evil clowns give you a funny feeling? Join us at:
                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/puppetterrors/
                                                                                                          All the cool kids are doing it....

                                                                                                          On Mar 25, 2005, at 5:39 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                                          I don’t think his stomach is concaved but I’ll stick some cucumber in there tonight along with some extra algae wafers.

                                                                                                          I wouldn’t doubt if that were the problem as the tank is only a few weeks old.  I can’t imagine there would be much in there for him to eat at this point.

                                                                                                          Thanks for the heads up.  I’ll keep an eye on him.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                          From: clarkmariposo25@... [mailto:clarkmariposo25@...]
                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 9:42 PM
                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco problems

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          try taking a look at his belly. is it concaved in or is it clearly full? if it is concaved, he is not getting enough to eat. Does he have any hiding places and how is the water?

                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter






                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9639 From: Steve Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Timed feeders?
                                                                                                          Normally I would say let them be. Don't worry about them not eating for a
                                                                                                          week. However, in your situation, I'd be loathe to do that if I were there.
                                                                                                          If you do have the automatic feeders, put some batteries in them and test
                                                                                                          them. You don't have to do it into the tank, but test to see if they are
                                                                                                          still working. If they are, go ahead and use them with a minimal amount of
                                                                                                          food. You certainly do not want that tank to start heading south again after
                                                                                                          all the work you have put into it.

                                                                                                          \\Steve//

                                                                                                          ________________________________

                                                                                                          From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@...]
                                                                                                          Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 5:42 PM
                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          Subject: [AquaticLife] Timed feeders?



                                                                                                          We are going out of town for a week and I need to know how to feed these
                                                                                                          guys while we are gone. We have some timed feeders that came with the tank
                                                                                                          but I don't know how they work at all. (individual plastic rounds that take
                                                                                                          batteries is what we have.)

                                                                                                          I'd like to get something very user friendly and that can feed a few types
                                                                                                          of food at varied intervals. Thanks for any suggestions.

                                                                                                          ~L
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9640 From: Fish Bloke Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: hello
                                                                                                          Hi,
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          I am new to this list.  I have been keeping fish since I was 8.  I am a qualified aquaculturalist and now run an aquarium supply in servicing business.  I am in Brisbane, Australia.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Currently I keep african cichlids, planted tanks, Australian Rainbows, Tinfoild Barbs, Datnoides, different catfish and loads of odds and ends.  I am breeding bristlenose (common, peppermint and albino)and africans and hope to be breeding my Tinfoild Barbs soon.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Cheers,
                                                                                                          Phil.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9641 From: harry perry Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: hello/To Phil
                                                                                                          You followed your dream and made it work. Good job!!!!!!
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Harry

                                                                                                          Fish Bloke <fishbloke@...> wrote:
                                                                                                          Hi,
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          I am new to this list.  I have been keeping fish since I was 8.  I am a qualified aquaculturalist and now run an aquarium supply in servicing business.  I am in Brisbane, Australia.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Currently I keep african cichlids, planted tanks, Australian Rainbows, Tinfoild Barbs, Datnoides, different catfish and loads of odds and ends.  I am breeding bristlenose (common, peppermint and albino)and africans and hope to be breeding my Tinfoild Barbs soon.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Cheers,
                                                                                                          Phil.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           


                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                          Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                          Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9642 From: Fish Bloke Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: hello/To Phil
                                                                                                          Thanks!  I have only just starting, so making "it work" is a work in progress.  :^)
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 10:46 AM
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hello/To Phil

                                                                                                          You followed your dream and made it work. Good job!!!!!!
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Harry

                                                                                                          Fish Bloke <fishbloke@...> wrote:
                                                                                                          Hi,
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          I am new to this list.  I have been keeping fish since I was 8.  I am a qualified aquaculturalist and now run an aquarium supply in servicing business.  I am in Brisbane, Australia.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Currently I keep african cichlids, planted tanks, Australian Rainbows, Tinfoild Barbs, Datnoides, different catfish and loads of odds and ends.  I am breeding bristlenose (common, peppermint and albino)and africans and hope to be breeding my Tinfoild Barbs soon.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Cheers,
                                                                                                          Phil.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           


                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                          Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                          Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9643 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: comet fish-ASAP help!
                                                                                                          Hey~
                                                                                                          My niece has 2 comet golfish and their tails are changing black is this normal or is there something the matter with them.
                                                                                                          Stacey


                                                                                                          Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                          Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9644 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: comet fish-ASAP help!

                                                                                                          Stacy,

                                                                                                          How old are they? What are the sizes?

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Many Goldfish start to develop proper colours when they are a few months to over a year old.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                           


                                                                                                          From: Stacey Mallow [mailto:krazy4mypets@...]
                                                                                                          Sent: 26 March 2005 01:13
                                                                                                          To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          Subject: [AquaticLife] comet fish-ASAP help!

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Hey~

                                                                                                          My niece has 2 comet golfish and their tails are changing black is this normal or is there something the matter with them.

                                                                                                          Stacey


                                                                                                          Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                          Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9645 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: comet fish-ASAP help!
                                                                                                          I know they are not even 2inches yet and not sure about age.
                                                                                                          I had given them to her last weekend and they were fine. They look more like a calico colors but why are the tails changing colors.
                                                                                                          Stacey

                                                                                                          Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                          Stacy,

                                                                                                          How old are they? What are the sizes?

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Many Goldfish start to develop proper colours when they are a few months to over a year old.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                           


                                                                                                          From: Stacey Mallow [mailto:krazy4mypets@...]
                                                                                                          Sent: 26 March 2005 01:13
                                                                                                          To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          Subject: [AquaticLife] comet fish-ASAP help!

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Hey~

                                                                                                          My niece has 2 comet golfish and their tails are changing black is this normal or is there something the matter with them.

                                                                                                          Stacey


                                                                                                          Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                          Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter






                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                                                          Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9646 From: Fish Bloke Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: comet fish-ASAP help!
                                                                                                          They are young fish, which means they are probably just growing into their colours.  It is also possible that is a sign that they are healing from a wound or infection.  Blackening of areas that are healing is fairly common in goldfish and it is sometimes (wrongly) called black spot disease.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Phil.
                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 11:37 AM
                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] comet fish-ASAP help!

                                                                                                          I know they are not even 2inches yet and not sure about age.
                                                                                                          I had given them to her last weekend and they were fine. They look more like a calico colors but why are the tails changing colors.
                                                                                                          Stacey

                                                                                                          Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                          Stacy,

                                                                                                          How old are they? What are the sizes?

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Many Goldfish start to develop proper colours when they are a few months to over a year old.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                           


                                                                                                          From: Stacey Mallow [mailto:krazy4mypets@...]
                                                                                                          Sent: 26 March 2005 01:13
                                                                                                          To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          Subject: [AquaticLife] comet fish-ASAP help!

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Hey~

                                                                                                          My niece has 2 comet golfish and their tails are changing black is this normal or is there something the matter with them.

                                                                                                          Stacey


                                                                                                          Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                          Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter






                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                          Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                          Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9647 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: New to group
                                                                                                          Hi everyone
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          I am new to group. My name is Robyn. I have been keeping fish (goldfish) when I was very young. I took up the hobby about 5-7 years ago  and now have an assortment of fish. thanks to working at Pet stores.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          I have a
                                                                                                          30 gallon long with aquatic snail, pleco Rafael cat and goldfish (one is 5 years old comet)
                                                                                                          10 with just goldies, snails, pleco
                                                                                                          30 h with male betta, gouramies, angelfish, Pleco (had him for five years too) and snails that have just recently laid a HUGE clutch of eggs (so any help in rearing them is much appreciated)
                                                                                                          And another one with another male beta.
                                                                                                           And I also have 1 white face cockatiel, Friendley.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Thanks!
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9648 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: food for plecos
                                                                                                          any vegetation is good like lettuce, cucumber, or live plants from the pet store
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9649 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: New poll for AquaticLife
                                                                                                          Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
                                                                                                          AquaticLife group:

                                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups has a new look!

                                                                                                          What is your opinion about the changes?

                                                                                                          o 1) Love it!
                                                                                                          o 2)
                                                                                                          o 3)
                                                                                                          o 4)
                                                                                                          o 5)
                                                                                                          o 6)
                                                                                                          o 7)
                                                                                                          o 8)
                                                                                                          o 9)
                                                                                                          o 10) Hate it!
                                                                                                          o don't care
                                                                                                          o Yahoo! Should have run a BETA version to allow members to try it out and give feedback before switching.
                                                                                                          o other - please post


                                                                                                          To vote, please visit the following web page:
                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/surveys?id=1653726

                                                                                                          Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
                                                                                                          not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
                                                                                                          web site listed above.

                                                                                                          Thanks!
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9650 From: Aaron Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: hello
                                                                                                          Hi Phil,

                                                                                                          Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                          What do the peppermint look like? Got a photo?

                                                                                                          "...I am breeding bristlenose... peppermint.."

                                                                                                          Aaron

                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Fish Bloke" <fishbloke@b...>
                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                          > Hi,
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > I am new to this list. I have been keeping fish since I was 8. I
                                                                                                          am a qualified aquaculturalist and now run an aquarium supply in
                                                                                                          servicing business. I am in Brisbane, Australia.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Currently I keep african cichlids, planted tanks, Australian
                                                                                                          Rainbows, Tinfoild Barbs, Datnoides, different catfish and loads of
                                                                                                          odds and ends. I am breeding bristlenose (common, peppermint and
                                                                                                          albino)and africans and hope to be breeding my Tinfoild Barbs soon.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Cheers,
                                                                                                          > Phil.
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9651 From: mofunnyfarm Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Pleco problems
                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                          <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                          > I don't think his stomach is concaved but I'll stick some cucumber
                                                                                                          in
                                                                                                          > there tonight along with some extra algae wafers.
                                                                                                          > I wouldn't doubt if that were the problem as the tank is only a few
                                                                                                          > weeks old. I can't imagine there would be much in there for him to
                                                                                                          eat
                                                                                                          > at this point.
                                                                                                          > Thanks for the heads up. I'll keep an eye on him.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                          > From: clarkmariposo25@a... [mailto:clarkmariposo25@a...]
                                                                                                          > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 9:42 PM
                                                                                                          > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco problems
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > try taking a look at his belly. is it concaved in or is it clearly
                                                                                                          full?
                                                                                                          > if it is concaved, he is not getting enough to eat. Does he have any
                                                                                                          > hiding places and how is the water?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          I just read about pleco's being starved to death in the Feb 2000
                                                                                                          issue of TFH by Lee Finley. Lee Finley is one of the catfish experts
                                                                                                          around. What he says in a nutshell is that they are overcrowded when
                                                                                                          collected and shipped. Of course they are not fed. They are given
                                                                                                          antibotics to get rid of parasites and this kills friendly bacteria.
                                                                                                          They come in in water that has a high ammonia level and a low ph. He
                                                                                                          suggests quarantining your new pleco in a tank of its own, maintaing
                                                                                                          a slightly alkaline ph 7.2 feeding a diet high in protein and fats.
                                                                                                          Beefheart and algae wafers & shrimp pellets [my suggestions]. It is
                                                                                                          important that there be no ammonia in the tank as you will be feeding
                                                                                                          heavy and ther will be a lot of waste. Frequent water change
                                                                                                          will go a long way to acomplish this. You will need to get a test kit
                                                                                                          to moniter it properly.
                                                                                                          Walter
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9652 From: mofunnyfarm Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mbyoung74" <mby@u...> wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > I am interested in turning an old bathtub into a tank for fish.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > The bathtub is existing in a bathroom with plumbing. The tub is not
                                                                                                          > used, so I am looking into turning it into a tank for fish.
                                                                                                          Although
                                                                                                          > before subjecting some little fish friends to an unhealthy
                                                                                                          environment
                                                                                                          > I'd like to know if anyone has done this or what I would need to
                                                                                                          > provide for the fish and any suggestions as to what type of fish
                                                                                                          might
                                                                                                          > be suited for this sort of environment. I was thinking some sort of
                                                                                                          > carp or goldfish.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > I would love any info that you have to throw my way.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Thanks!

                                                                                                          I put my fish outside. If you are going to try to keep them inside,
                                                                                                          you will have a problem with the tub leaking water. All the bathtubs
                                                                                                          I
                                                                                                          have seen always leak water out slowly. You would have to figure out
                                                                                                          a way to seal it or put some kind of lining in it.
                                                                                                          I have used black 100gal tubs for fish in the summer and have left
                                                                                                          goldfish outside with a stock tank heater in the winter. Our winters
                                                                                                          are a little too cold here in Missouri not to use a heater. My fish
                                                                                                          last year were Guppies, platies, mollies & african cichlids. Their
                                                                                                          color and growth beats having them inside. It seems being outside
                                                                                                          agrees with them. I didn't use any filters or pumps on anything
                                                                                                          except
                                                                                                          the goldfish. I did not overcrowd them. I was careful not to put any
                                                                                                          thing out I could not afford to lose as this is still an experiment
                                                                                                          for
                                                                                                          me.We had a cooler summer than normal and I never had any problem and
                                                                                                          the year before we had a hotter than normal. I am planning on putting
                                                                                                          more fish and some different ones this year. I have 70+ tanks inside
                                                                                                          and breed a lot of different fish. So don't be afraid to experiment.
                                                                                                          I
                                                                                                          tend to do things the cheapest way. I thought about bathtubs, but I
                                                                                                          got
                                                                                                          a good deal on these tubs from MFA for $40 ea. Stock tanks work good
                                                                                                          too. Just don't crowd your container and enjoy your fish outside this
                                                                                                          year. You will be amazed with their color when you bring them in in
                                                                                                          the
                                                                                                          fall.
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9653 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/25/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: American Livebearer Association (ALA) Convention, 4/9/2005, 12:00 a
                                                                                                          Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                          American Livebearer Association (ALA) Convention

                                                                                                          Saturday April 9, 2005
                                                                                                          All Day
                                                                                                          This event repeats every day, until Monday April 11, 2005.
                                                                                                          The next reminder for this event will be sent in 10 days, 23 hours, 1 minute.

                                                                                                          Event Location: Indianapolis
                                                                                                          Notes:
                                                                                                          livebearers.org

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                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9654 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New poll for AquaticLife
                                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups has a new look!

                                                                                                          Yahoo has changed the layout on its groups - every page is different
                                                                                                          now - and the messages are listed upside down - and there's a lot
                                                                                                          more scrolling involved. It'll take a lot of getting used to.

                                                                                                          Its causing a lot of problems - many people on the email managers
                                                                                                          list are complaining, there are no message numbers now - a
                                                                                                          retrograde step. In the New Look banner on the homepage there's a
                                                                                                          feedback link for complaints.
                                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups has a new look! More info | Send Feedback

                                                                                                          ATTN: Yahoo Group owners, moderators and members... If you are
                                                                                                          unhappy with the recent changes to the Yahoo Groups webpages please
                                                                                                          post your complaint here:

                                                                                                          http://add.yahoo.com/fast/help/us/groups/cgi_alpha



                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
                                                                                                          > AquaticLife group:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups has a new look!
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > What is your opinion about the changes?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > o 1) Love it!
                                                                                                          > o 2)
                                                                                                          > o 3)
                                                                                                          > o 4)
                                                                                                          > o 5)
                                                                                                          > o 6)
                                                                                                          > o 7)
                                                                                                          > o 8)
                                                                                                          > o 9)
                                                                                                          > o 10) Hate it!
                                                                                                          > o don't care
                                                                                                          > o Yahoo! Should have run a BETA version to allow members to try
                                                                                                          it out and give feedback before switching.
                                                                                                          > o other - please post
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > To vote, please visit the following web page:
                                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/surveys?id=1653726
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
                                                                                                          > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
                                                                                                          > web site listed above.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Thanks!
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9655 From: Fish Bloke Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: hello
                                                                                                          It is all black with white spots.  I would prefer to call them Starry Night Catfish, but the peppermint name is stuck in Australia. 
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          This one is similiar, but my guys have more white spots http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/loricari/ancistru/1303_f.php
                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                          From: Aaron
                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 1:04 PM
                                                                                                          Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: hello


                                                                                                          Hi Phil,

                                                                                                          Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                          What do the peppermint look like? Got a photo?

                                                                                                          "...I am breeding bristlenose... peppermint.."

                                                                                                          Aaron

                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Fish Bloke" <fishbloke@b...>
                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                          > Hi,
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > I am new to this list.  I have been keeping fish since I was 8.  I
                                                                                                          am a qualified aquaculturalist and now run an aquarium supply in
                                                                                                          servicing business.  I am in Brisbane, Australia.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Currently I keep african cichlids, planted tanks, Australian
                                                                                                          Rainbows, Tinfoild Barbs, Datnoides, different catfish and loads of
                                                                                                          odds and ends.  I am breeding bristlenose (common, peppermint and
                                                                                                          albino)and africans and hope to be breeding my Tinfoild Barbs soon.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Cheers,
                                                                                                          > Phil.





                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9656 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: hello
                                                                                                          Hi Phil, Good to see another knowledgeable fish keeper from "Down
                                                                                                          Under", and glad that your entrepreneurial spirit is beginning to
                                                                                                          work out. Its always nice to do something you like. Welcome to the
                                                                                                          group.
                                                                                                          \
                                                                                                          The Rainbows are fairly popular here in the States. Are there any
                                                                                                          certain ones that you keep (like M. Maccullochi, or?)? There are
                                                                                                          some real nice Gudgeons which should be fairly easy for you to
                                                                                                          obtain. Can I presume you have some of these as well?
                                                                                                          \
                                                                                                          Good luck in your business and in your fishkeeping. Hope to see more
                                                                                                          of your posts in the future. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                          \
                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Fish Bloke" <fishbloke@b...>
                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                          > Hi,
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > I am new to this list. I have been keeping fish since I was 8. I
                                                                                                          am a qualified aquaculturalist and now run an aquarium supply in
                                                                                                          servicing business. I am in Brisbane, Australia.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Currently I keep african cichlids, planted tanks, Australian
                                                                                                          Rainbows, Tinfoild Barbs, Datnoides, different catfish and loads of
                                                                                                          odds and ends. I am breeding bristlenose (common, peppermint and
                                                                                                          albino)and africans and hope to be breeding my Tinfoild Barbs soon.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Cheers,
                                                                                                          > Phil.
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9657 From: craig busby Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: bathtub as tank
                                                                                                          it is also very diffficult to keep the temperastures even on a bsth tb

                                                                                                          mofunnyfarm <mofunnyfarm@...> wrote:


                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mbyoung74" <mby@u...> wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > I am interested in turning an old bathtub into a tank for fish. 
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > The bathtub is existing in a bathroom with plumbing.  The tub is not
                                                                                                          > used, so I am looking into turning it into a tank for fish.
                                                                                                          Although
                                                                                                          > before subjecting some little fish friends to an unhealthy
                                                                                                          environment
                                                                                                          > I'd like to know if anyone has done this or what I would need to
                                                                                                          > provide for the fish and any suggestions as to what type of fish
                                                                                                          might
                                                                                                          > be suited for this sort of environment.  I was thinking some sort of
                                                                                                          > carp or goldfish.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > I would love any info that you have to throw my way.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Thanks!

                                                                                                          I put my fish outside. If you are going to try to keep them inside,
                                                                                                          you will have a problem with the tub leaking water. All the bathtubs
                                                                                                          I
                                                                                                          have seen always leak water out slowly. You would have to figure out
                                                                                                          a way to seal it or put some kind of lining in it.
                                                                                                          I have used black 100gal tubs for fish in the summer and have left
                                                                                                          goldfish outside with a stock tank heater in the winter. Our winters
                                                                                                          are a little too cold here in Missouri not to use a heater. My fish
                                                                                                          last year were Guppies, platies, mollies & african cichlids. Their
                                                                                                          color and growth beats having them inside. It seems being outside
                                                                                                          agrees with them. I didn't use any filters or pumps on anything
                                                                                                          except
                                                                                                          the goldfish. I did not overcrowd them. I was careful not to put any
                                                                                                          thing out I could not afford to lose as this is still an experiment
                                                                                                          for
                                                                                                          me.We had a cooler summer than normal and I never had any problem and
                                                                                                          the year before we had a hotter than normal. I am planning on putting
                                                                                                          more fish and some different ones this year. I have 70+ tanks inside
                                                                                                          and breed a lot of different fish. So don't be afraid to experiment.
                                                                                                          I
                                                                                                          tend to do things the cheapest way. I thought about bathtubs, but I
                                                                                                          got
                                                                                                          a good deal on these tubs from MFA for $40 ea. Stock tanks work good
                                                                                                          too. Just don't crowd your container and enjoy your fish outside this
                                                                                                          year. You will be amazed with their color when you bring them in in
                                                                                                          the
                                                                                                          fall.








                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9658 From: Rachel Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: introducing myself
                                                                                                          hi! my name is Rachel I'm 18 years old and I go to college. I've kept
                                                                                                          a 5.5 gal tank for around 3 years, it now holds 8 tetras (4glowlights
                                                                                                          and 4 neons) and 5 live plants. I recently fell in love with bettas,
                                                                                                          and now own 5. I also am crazy for my 2 black moore goldfish.

                                                                                                          I have a question on live plants. Um... why are my plants turning pale
                                                                                                          yellow and like... dying...

                                                                                                          ive turned the light off a lot more because im only home once a day or
                                                                                                          so and the tank got a big splash of algae, so ive been using algaefix
                                                                                                          for that...

                                                                                                          and does anyone know why one of my black moore goldfish chills at the
                                                                                                          top on his side sometimes...??? he does it a lot, from what i've seen,
                                                                                                          not too much recently. But he eats fine and is active otherwise.

                                                                                                          i will put up pictures later of my beloved wet pets.
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9659 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Kansas City - HAAS Spring Auction, 4/2/2005, 1:00 pm
                                                                                                          Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                                                                                                          Kansas City - HAAS Spring Auction

                                                                                                          Saturday April 2, 2005
                                                                                                          1:00 pm - 7:30 pm
                                                                                                          This event does not repeat.
                                                                                                          The next reminder for this event will be sent in 6 days, 3 minutes.

                                                                                                          Event Location: Nall Ave. Baptist Church - 67th and Nall
                                                                                                          Street: 5401 67th Street
                                                                                                          City, State, Zip: Overland Park, KS

                                                                                                          Notes:
                                                                                                          The Heart of America Aquarium Society is holding it's annual Spring auction on Saturday, April 2nd. at 1:00 at the Nall Ave. Baptist Church in Overland Park, KS. The Church is located at 67th and Nall Ave. If you need more info, see our website at www.kcfishclub.org or email auction@.../ We will have Freshwater, Saltwater, plants and supplies. This is a 70/30 auction, so if you want to bring items to sell, please pre-register (auction@...) by March 30 to get a copy of our seller rules. Hope to see you there.
                                                                                                          Mike Meyer

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                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9660 From: J G Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: hello
                                                                                                          hey guys... My name is Jason... I had a tank when I
                                                                                                          was younger, but kinda "grew out" of it till recently.


                                                                                                          During the spring '03 semester, I pledged a
                                                                                                          fraternity, & in our frat we're divided into
                                                                                                          "families"... well I'm in the fish family. While
                                                                                                          home for easter break that year, my family & I were at
                                                                                                          wal-mart & my sister decided she wanted a betta... so
                                                                                                          I joined her in helping to pick one out & actually got
                                                                                                          one myself ("I'm part of the fish family what the
                                                                                                          hell")... I had him, Pi (in honor of my frat) till
                                                                                                          mid Nov 2004. I'd also gotten a female, Rho, the last
                                                                                                          week of school in spring 2004 (she unfort' passed away
                                                                                                          in Jan 2005). I then got a fish here when I got back,
                                                                                                          & unfort' he passed away in 3 days due to fungus
                                                                                                          infection.

                                                                                                          ANyway, to make a long story short (too late I
                                                                                                          know)... I now have in my room 3 tanks - a 5 gal, a 1
                                                                                                          gal and a bowl which I think is a 1 gal. In the bowl
                                                                                                          I have 4 neon tetreas. I have a blue male in the 1
                                                                                                          gal tank... In the 5 gal - 6 maybe 7 female bettas (I
                                                                                                          cant seem to find one so not sure what happend to
                                                                                                          her), 2 algea eaters & a african dwarf frog. I know
                                                                                                          its a bit over stocked. But as soon as I can find me
                                                                                                          some extra cash (prob from the rents when I go home
                                                                                                          for summer), I'll get a 10gal & they'll have a little
                                                                                                          more room - so will the male as he'll move into the
                                                                                                          5gal I have now).

                                                                                                          __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9661 From: whatsdiggin Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Hi, I'm new to the group.
                                                                                                          Can someone please help me I'm new to fish breeding. I'm breeding
                                                                                                          guppies to start out with. And my babies keep dieing one by one. Can
                                                                                                          someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong.
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9662 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: introducing myself
                                                                                                          Hi Rachel,

                                                                                                          Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                          Not sure about the goldfish, could be swim bladder or just a funny
                                                                                                          fish if everthig else is ok and it swims normal when it 'wants'.

                                                                                                          What kind of plants do you have? (if your not sure, send us a
                                                                                                          picture)
                                                                                                          Some plants do ok with very little light while others eed alot.
                                                                                                          What kind of algae did you have? Did it all go away?

                                                                                                          Timers for the light are very helpful, cost about $7. Leave the
                                                                                                          light on up to 12 hours a day for the plants.

                                                                                                          How long did you have the plants before they started to turn "yellow
                                                                                                          and like... dying..."?

                                                                                                          Aaron

                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > hi! my name is Rachel I'm 18 years old and I go to college. I've
                                                                                                          kept
                                                                                                          > a 5.5 gal tank for around 3 years, it now holds 8 tetras
                                                                                                          (4glowlights
                                                                                                          > and 4 neons) and 5 live plants. I recently fell in love with
                                                                                                          bettas,
                                                                                                          > and now own 5. I also am crazy for my 2 black moore goldfish.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > I have a question on live plants. Um... why are my plants turning
                                                                                                          pale
                                                                                                          > yellow and like... dying...
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > ive turned the light off a lot more because im only home once a
                                                                                                          day or
                                                                                                          > so and the tank got a big splash of algae, so ive been using
                                                                                                          algaefix
                                                                                                          > for that...
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > and does anyone know why one of my black moore goldfish chills at
                                                                                                          the
                                                                                                          > top on his side sometimes...??? he does it a lot, from what i've
                                                                                                          seen,
                                                                                                          > not too much recently. But he eats fine and is active otherwise.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > i will put up pictures later of my beloved wet pets.
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9663 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new to the group.
                                                                                                          Hi,

                                                                                                          Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                          Is this the first batch of fry?
                                                                                                          If not, is it the same outcome everytime?

                                                                                                          I assume you mean you are finding dead fry after they had been all
                                                                                                          swimming not that they are being eaten or injured.

                                                                                                          How long did they live? hours or days?

                                                                                                          What are you feeding the fry?
                                                                                                          Are they in their own fry tank?

                                                                                                          I had guppies that I was selective breeding. That is I seperated the
                                                                                                          male and female fry as soon as I could tell them apart. I did this
                                                                                                          because i found out that left together they start mating within a
                                                                                                          few weeks of age. It did not seem the young females were fully grown
                                                                                                          or large enogh to carry the fry full term. It can be very stressful
                                                                                                          on them and they will drop the fry prematurely.

                                                                                                          This may be what is happening in your case?
                                                                                                          The pregnant females may do better seperated into their
                                                                                                          own 'maternity' tank with lots of live plants and hiding spaces.

                                                                                                          Hope that helps,
                                                                                                          Aaron


                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "whatsdiggin" <whatsdiggin@y...>
                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Can someone please help me I'm new to fish breeding. I'm breeding
                                                                                                          > guppies to start out with. And my babies keep dieing one by one.
                                                                                                          Can
                                                                                                          > someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong.
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9664 From: racetwocrg Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: My Intro
                                                                                                          Hello
                                                                                                          all fish people. my name is Craig. I have two tanks. One is a 55
                                                                                                          gallon that is currently home to a 6 inch yellow chichlid and a 11
                                                                                                          inch Jaguar chiclid. I alsio have a 40 gallon tank that has a alge
                                                                                                          eater" Fat as can be" a red belly pacu and a Jack dempsey.
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9665 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new to the group.

                                                                                                          We need to know as to what are you doing with the baby guppies? Keeping them in a separate tank? Does the tank have a filter? Keeping them with the parents? Parents can and will eat the babies.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Guppy fry otherwise are hardy enough when born to survive well on their own with crushed flake food.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Need more details.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                           


                                                                                                          From: whatsdiggin [mailto:whatsdiggin@...]
                                                                                                          Sent: 26 March 2005 21:19
                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi, I'm new to the group.

                                                                                                           


                                                                                                          Can someone please help me I'm new to fish breeding. I'm breeding
                                                                                                          guppies to start out with. And my babies keep dieing one by one. Can
                                                                                                          someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong.





                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9666 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: introducing myself ( rachel )
                                                                                                          and like...welcome to the group rachel.
                                                                                                          I agree timers are very very handy.
                                                                                                          Some algae is good for a tank, but can become unsightly.

                                                                                                          No help on my end with goldfish sorry as i have no experience with them beyond winning on at a carnival once.

                                                                                                          rob
                                                                                                          NE Indiana
                                                                                                          USA

                                                                                                          Timers for the light are very helpful, cost about $7. Leave the
                                                                                                          light on up to 12 hours a day for the plants.

                                                                                                          How long did you have the plants before they started to turn "yellow
                                                                                                          and like... dying..."?


                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9667 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: My Intro
                                                                                                          Hi Craig,

                                                                                                          Welcome the group and thanks for joining.

                                                                                                          Aaron

                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "racetwocrg" <racetwocrg@y...>
                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Hello
                                                                                                          > all fish people. my name is Craig. I have two tanks. One is a 55
                                                                                                          > gallon that is currently home to a 6 inch yellow chichlid and a 11
                                                                                                          > inch Jaguar chiclid. I alsio have a 40 gallon tank that has a alge
                                                                                                          > eater" Fat as can be" a red belly pacu and a Jack dempsey.
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9668 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: hello ( Jason )
                                                                                                          welcome to the group Jason. Maybe you could get the  family to adopt a 10 gallon tank next semester?
                                                                                                          That way you could have your fish at school with you and could provide a mascot for your fraternity family.
                                                                                                            * always thinking of ways to get fish into schools*

                                                                                                          Always have to be thinking :-)

                                                                                                          We had a 55 gallon tank downstairs in the dorm. We was able to get a LFS to donate. Of course we couldn't decide on what kind of fish to keep.
                                                                                                          Was always a great conversation piece. There was always at least 3 or 4 people sitting around doing nothing but veggin on the fish tank :-)



                                                                                                          rob
                                                                                                          NE Indiana
                                                                                                          USA


                                                                                                          In a message dated 3/26/2005 4:44:18 PM US Eastern Standard Time, sir_grubs47@... writes:


                                                                                                          hey guys...  My name is Jason...  I had a tank when I
                                                                                                          was younger, but kinda "grew out" of it till recently.



                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9669 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re My Intro ( Craig )
                                                                                                          In a message dated 3/26/2005 5:23:28 PM US Eastern Standard Time, racetwocrg@... writes:

                                                                                                          Welcome to the group Craig.

                                                                                                          rob
                                                                                                          NE Indiana

                                                                                                          I

                                                                                                          Hello
                                                                                                          all fish people. my name is Craig. I have two tanks. One is a 55
                                                                                                          gallon that is currently home to a 6 inch yellow chichlid and a 11
                                                                                                          inch Jaguar chiclid. I alsio have a 40 gallon tank that has a alge
                                                                                                          eater" Fat as can be" a red belly pacu and a Jack dempsey.


                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9670 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: hello
                                                                                                          Hi Jason,

                                                                                                          Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                          Interesting keping the neons in a bowl. Does it have a heater or
                                                                                                          does the room just stay warm?
                                                                                                          Usally people but bettas in the bowl, but that nice to see someone
                                                                                                          thinking 'outside the tank'. ;^)

                                                                                                          Sounds like you've been bitten by the bettas, that is your hooked -
                                                                                                          pun intended.

                                                                                                          Are the females all different or are they 'sisters'?
                                                                                                          How do they get along in their tank?

                                                                                                          Are you planning on breeding them eventually?

                                                                                                          Aaron


                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, J G <sir_grubs47@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                          > hey guys... My name is Jason... I had a tank when I
                                                                                                          > was younger, but kinda "grew out" of it till recently.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > During the spring '03 semester, I pledged a
                                                                                                          > fraternity, & in our frat we're divided into
                                                                                                          > "families"... well I'm in the fish family. While
                                                                                                          > home for easter break that year, my family & I were at
                                                                                                          > wal-mart & my sister decided she wanted a betta... so
                                                                                                          > I joined her in helping to pick one out & actually got
                                                                                                          > one myself ("I'm part of the fish family what the
                                                                                                          > hell")... I had him, Pi (in honor of my frat) till
                                                                                                          > mid Nov 2004. I'd also gotten a female, Rho, the last
                                                                                                          > week of school in spring 2004 (she unfort' passed away
                                                                                                          > in Jan 2005). I then got a fish here when I got back,
                                                                                                          > & unfort' he passed away in 3 days due to fungus
                                                                                                          > infection.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > ANyway, to make a long story short (too late I
                                                                                                          > know)... I now have in my room 3 tanks - a 5 gal, a 1
                                                                                                          > gal and a bowl which I think is a 1 gal. In the bowl
                                                                                                          > I have 4 neon tetreas. I have a blue male in the 1
                                                                                                          > gal tank... In the 5 gal - 6 maybe 7 female bettas (I
                                                                                                          > cant seem to find one so not sure what happend to
                                                                                                          > her), 2 algea eaters & a african dwarf frog. I know
                                                                                                          > its a bit over stocked. But as soon as I can find me
                                                                                                          > some extra cash (prob from the rents when I go home
                                                                                                          > for summer), I'll get a 10gal & they'll have a little
                                                                                                          > more room - so will the male as he'll move into the
                                                                                                          > 5gal I have now).
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                          > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9671 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New to the group as of 03/25/2005
                                                                                                          Hi Linda,

                                                                                                          Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                          >"An Whisper Micro Filter came with the 2.5 gal tanks. Do I also
                                                                                                          >need to use them with the Betta?"

                                                                                                          I would. Water needs some sort of filtration or at least the surface
                                                                                                          needs to be agitated somehow to encourage gas exchanges. 3 main
                                                                                                          kinds of filtration; Mechanical, Biological and Chemical.

                                                                                                          ">...everytime I stop at the store I purchase at least 6 gallons
                                                                                                          > of "Spring Water"

                                                                                                          Lucky Bettas! Treated tap water usally works ok.

                                                                                                          I do not know about using the Triops as a food source. If you do get
                                                                                                          them, please send us pictures and let us know how it went as I am
                                                                                                          very curious myself.

                                                                                                          Brine Shrimp, even baby brine shrimp are mostly water. BBS are ok
                                                                                                          for treats if you are interested in a 'science experiment' of
                                                                                                          hatching them out. Plus it is fun to watch the bettas chase them.
                                                                                                          But not as a staple diet.

                                                                                                          It is my understanding that Bettas need a high protein diet.
                                                                                                          Bloodworms are great. Freeze-Dried are best as no risk involved.
                                                                                                          Frozen is better than live, but could still be other stuff in the
                                                                                                          mix. Find brands that purify or sterilize or something like that to
                                                                                                          the bloodworms before freezing. I think Hikari and SF Bay brand are
                                                                                                          good. Some brands even add vitamins to the food.

                                                                                                          Beefheart is a welcomed treat, I use sparingly as there is debate
                                                                                                          about health concerns with daily use.

                                                                                                          Flightless Fruit Flies, (how can they be called flys if they are
                                                                                                          flightless? are they not now just 'fruit walks'?), are common in the
                                                                                                          stores here and can be used as a cultre to yield continious supply
                                                                                                          of food closer to the bettas natural diet.

                                                                                                          There are dozens of Live Foods that you culture yourself. Daphnia,
                                                                                                          Vinegar eels, even feeder guppies or guppy fry. Not a Betta expert,
                                                                                                          but most of the others might just be treats. I would stick to the
                                                                                                          Foods labeled for Bettas, especially those with the higher protein
                                                                                                          cotent.

                                                                                                          Hope that helps,
                                                                                                          Aaron

                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Linda" <lkbrown3951@p...> wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Hi my name is Linda. I am new to this group. ...I have 2 male
                                                                                                          Betta. My first Betta...I chose Oscar. He...is a kinda deep red
                                                                                                          with kind of bluish to him. He is a people fish
                                                                                                          > as I can tell as he likes to follow my finger and he has made me a
                                                                                                          > bubble nest.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Rasco ...is kind of timid. He likes to eat, but he is not as
                                                                                                          friendly as Oscar. He has yet made a bubble nest for me.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > I am new to the Betta, but with the help of a couple of websites I
                                                                                                          > had found I am learning.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >...
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Yes, everytime I stop at the store I purchase at least 6 gallons
                                                                                                          > of "Spring Water" I also learned that they like warm water
                                                                                                          between
                                                                                                          > 75-80 degrees. ...I ended up getting two 2.5 gallon tanks
                                                                                                          > and a couple of heaters.
                                                                                                          > Oscar is just loving his tank, it is up to 80 degrees and he has
                                                                                                          made
                                                                                                          > me another "Bubble Nest".
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Rasco's tank is up to 76 now and I will be putting him in his new
                                                                                                          > home ...

                                                                                                          > Now here comes the questions...
                                                                                                          > I have purchased 4 different kinds of betta
                                                                                                          > food, ....flakes, "TetraMin" The Rich Mix, (good for Bettas),
                                                                                                          Wardley
                                                                                                          > Betta Premium Food and "Aqua Culture" Betta pellet Food (Color-
                                                                                                          > Enhancing Fish Food).
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > I try to feed them at least twice a day. In the morning before I
                                                                                                          go
                                                                                                          > to work, and when I get home from work. Once in a while I will
                                                                                                          give
                                                                                                          > them a treat of "Blood Worms" before bed time.
                                                                                                          > I give them the flakes first, then if they eat them I will give
                                                                                                          them
                                                                                                          > a pellet, then another pellet.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > I have thought of growing live food ( sea monkeys or brine shrimp)
                                                                                                          I
                                                                                                          > ended up finding Triops. Can Triops be used for live food for the
                                                                                                          > betta?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Any one have any suggestions that may help me?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Betta smooches from Oscar and Rasco in Olivet Michigan
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9672 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Hi all New to group and fishkeeping....Piranahs on Oregon ..
                                                                                                          Hi Pam,

                                                                                                          Welcome to the group.



                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam phetteplace
                                                                                                          <pamphetteplace@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Hi all
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > I am new to group/fishkeeping and from Oregon.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Was at one of the lfs the other day and they had a huge new
                                                                                                          tank like about 600 gallons (just a guess) with about 100 piranah in
                                                                                                          there. That would be one of my last choices for a fish for myself.
                                                                                                          I like friendly critters.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Anyway.....what I know about the boarder check is that they are
                                                                                                          looking for fruit .....only. They want to try and make sure nobody
                                                                                                          brings the apples from granny's yard that are unsprayed and have
                                                                                                          worms that could infect the agriculture in california.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > happy fishkeeping all
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Pam
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9673 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Goldfish
                                                                                                          Hi Mary,

                                                                                                          Aww how cute.

                                                                                                          I've heard of 'kissing gouramis' that pucker up for a 'push-a-war'
                                                                                                          sorta like a territorial or dominance deciding thing.

                                                                                                          Is your goldfish kissing the comet on the mouth?
                                                                                                          Or is it 'kissing' (biting?) other parts of the body?

                                                                                                          I have male livebears that contantly harrass the females mostly by
                                                                                                          headbutting them, that is hitting the females bottomsides with there
                                                                                                          heads.

                                                                                                          Aaron

                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <maryrich@n...> wrote:
                                                                                                          > Hi Everyone
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > I have this goldfish that is forever going up to my comet and it
                                                                                                          looks
                                                                                                          > likes, s/he is giving the comet kisses, does this mean anything?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Mary
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 9674 From: m senter Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: hello
                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                            Ray,
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            Have you ever been to the livebearer convention?  I live in indy and was thinking about going over to talk to people and see the fish and find out about the ala.org to see if i want to join or not. Do they allow this and would they allow me to bring my daughter to see the fish?
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            melissa 
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            Date: 03/26/05 09:23:24
                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: hello
                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            Hi Phil,  Good to see another knowledgeable fish keeper from "Down
                                                                                                            Under", and glad that your entrepreneurial spirit is beginning to
                                                                                                            work out.  Its always nice to do something you like.  Welcome to the 
                                                                                                            group.                                                       
                                                                                                            \                                                                 
                                                                                                            The Rainbows are fairly popular here in the States.  Are there any
                                                                                                            certain ones that you keep (like M. Maccullochi, or?)?  There are
                                                                                                            some real nice Gudgeons which should be fairly easy for you to
                                                                                                            obtain.  Can I presume you have some of these as well?              
                                                                                                            \                                                                    
                                                                                                            Good luck in your business and in your fishkeeping.  Hope to see more
                                                                                                            of your posts in the future.  Regards,  Ray                         
                                                                                                            \                                                                    
                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Fish Bloke" <fishbloke@b...>
                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                            > Hi,
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > I am new to this list.  I have been keeping fish since I was 8.  I
                                                                                                            am a qualified aquaculturalist and now run an aquarium supply in
                                                                                                            servicing business.  I am in Brisbane, Australia.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Currently I keep african cichlids, planted tanks, Australian
                                                                                                            Rainbows, Tinfoild Barbs, Datnoides, different catfish and loads of
                                                                                                            odds and ends.  I am breeding bristlenose (common, peppermint and
                                                                                                            albino)and africans and hope to be breeding my Tinfoild Barbs soon.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Cheers,
                                                                                                            > Phil.





                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                            ..
                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9675 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: New member.
                                                                                                            Hi Setiawan,

                                                                                                            Wecome to the group.

                                                                                                            Aaron

                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Setiawan Budi Suwandi"
                                                                                                            <bettacastle@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Hi guys,
                                                                                                            > I'm new in this group. My name is Setiawan from Bandung - West
                                                                                                            Java -
                                                                                                            > Indonesia.I'm breeder,raiser and trader for freshwatter fish.My
                                                                                                            > specialist in Bettas.
                                                                                                            > Now, I started to breed chiclid ( frontossa ).I still looking for
                                                                                                            > cheap forntosa blue.If anyone know where to buy near in my
                                                                                                            > country,please tell me.
                                                                                                            > Thank's and have a nice day.
                                                                                                            > Regards
                                                                                                            > Setiawan
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9676 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: eels question
                                                                                                            Hi,

                                                                                                            just checking to see if you got ant answers yet

                                                                                                            Aaron


                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mrfabus" <mrfabus@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > how often do they eat cause i have yet seen them eat and i want to
                                                                                                            > make sure Im not doing anything wrong. tHERE ARE 3 EELS AND 3 GAR
                                                                                                            > PIKE. Any info would be nice. Thank you
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9677 From: Rosaholic Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: hello
                                                                                                            Same here. I missed the hobby, and am enjoying all the new technology
                                                                                                            that is out there for aquariums now. It's like learning all over
                                                                                                            again! Never thought I would see the day that underground filters were
                                                                                                            out of style. They always worked so well for me :)

                                                                                                            --
                                                                                                            Chat with you later,
                                                                                                            Alan
                                                                                                            --
                                                                                                            Chandler, Arizona
                                                                                                            Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                            http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                            ----
                                                                                                            *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                                                            *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
                                                                                                            *** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening list called "OutGardening".
                                                                                                            *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your address.
                                                                                                            *** Check them out at:

                                                                                                            http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/listinfo/

                                                                                                            ***** 98% of all statistics is useless !


                                                                                                            J G wrote:

                                                                                                            >hey guys... My name is Jason... I had a tank when I
                                                                                                            >was younger, but kinda "grew out" of it till recently.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9678 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Mixing schooling fish
                                                                                                            Hi Eric,

                                                                                                            How is the new tank coming along?

                                                                                                            I have a 55gallon with both assorted danios and various tetras.
                                                                                                            The Danios are fast swimmers and stay at the top to play in the
                                                                                                            current.
                                                                                                            All the tetras swim slower and stay lower.
                                                                                                            Not sure if any are schooling fish or shoaling? spelling?
                                                                                                            there is a differance.
                                                                                                            5 or 6 may not be enough if you are refering to the smaller tetras
                                                                                                            like neons.


                                                                                                            However, Tetras do better in softer water with a lower pH. something
                                                                                                            to consider.

                                                                                                            Did you already cycle the tank?

                                                                                                            Hope that helps - keep us posted o your progress.
                                                                                                            Aaron

                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Miner" <eminer1254@y...>
                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Hello All,
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > I'm moving forward in the planning of my first tank (55 gal). I'm
                                                                                                            now
                                                                                                            > working out what fish I want to live in the tank. I love schooling
                                                                                                            > fish and like Tetras and Danios for this group. The question I has
                                                                                                            is
                                                                                                            > a bit naive, but... If I have 5-6 members of a species of Danio and
                                                                                                            > Tetra that like the same level in the tank will cause problems with
                                                                                                            > their schooling behavior? Will they be running into each other and
                                                                                                            > causing confusion?
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Thanks
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Eric
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9679 From: craig busby Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Re My Intro ( Craig )
                                                                                                            thanks

                                                                                                            FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                            In a message dated 3/26/2005 5:23:28 PM US Eastern Standard Time, racetwocrg@... writes:

                                                                                                            Welcome to the group Craig.

                                                                                                            rob
                                                                                                            NE Indiana

                                                                                                            I

                                                                                                            Hello
                                                                                                            all fish people. my name is Craig. I have two tanks. One is a 55
                                                                                                            gallon that is currently home to a 6 inch yellow chichlid and a 11
                                                                                                            inch Jaguar chiclid. I alsio have a 40 gallon tank that has a alge
                                                                                                            eater" Fat as can be" a red belly pacu and a Jack dempsey.




                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9680 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Newbie with Questions
                                                                                                            Hi Bev,

                                                                                                            Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                            Snails are good.

                                                                                                            If you are a clown loach, snails are very good - to eat.

                                                                                                            All snails are beneficial, to an extent. They seem pesky
                                                                                                            when 'overpopulated', however they will not reproduce if conditions
                                                                                                            don't allow, i.e. excess food, algae, other availabe nutrients,
                                                                                                            calcium and other minerals for the shells, etc...

                                                                                                            If you see 'too many'little snails, fish love to eat them - just
                                                                                                            crush and watch the feeding frenzy.

                                                                                                            How big is your tank?
                                                                                                            What size/kind/do the snails look like?
                                                                                                            What kind of fish do you have? How many?

                                                                                                            Do you have live plants?
                                                                                                            If not there are treatments with copper that will kill all the
                                                                                                            snails.
                                                                                                            But the snails are good, they eat the algae and keep the glass
                                                                                                            clean, the eat the excess food which helps the water chemistry.
                                                                                                            something to think about.


                                                                                                            Hope that helps, keep us posted,
                                                                                                            Aaron

                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bev" <bfulkes@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Hello, I joined this group to ask for advice and read about other
                                                                                                            > peoples experiences with their tanks. I need to know how to get
                                                                                                            rid of
                                                                                                            > pesky snails without harming the tanks for future beneficial
                                                                                                            snails.
                                                                                                            > Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9681 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: New member:can't sort out my problems
                                                                                                            Hi AJ,

                                                                                                            Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                            ">over stocked(from the fish breeding with out my
                                                                                                            > consent)" - thats funny :*)
                                                                                                            My livebearers do the same thing.

                                                                                                            ">except the bacteria in the filter that I was told never to clean."
                                                                                                            What!?
                                                                                                            Filter pads will clog up, if you do not want to replace them, you
                                                                                                            can use the excess water left over from water changes to rinse them
                                                                                                            in to remove surface debris without harming the beneficial bacteria.

                                                                                                            "> it looks good for a few weeks, then either clouds
                                                                                                            > up, or turns green. "

                                                                                                            Sounds like it was not done with the cyle and or you have an algae
                                                                                                            bloom. It can take 6 weeks or so to stabalize. Whenevr you add fish,
                                                                                                            it will go thro smaller cycles as well.

                                                                                                            "> My last try was a blackmoore and a calico
                                                                                                            > fantail, with a pleco. "
                                                                                                            My understanding is that goldfish and plecos do not have proper
                                                                                                            stomachs and are messy fish.
                                                                                                            Do you do water changes? How much how often?


                                                                                                            Let us know how your doing,

                                                                                                            Aaron



                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "A J Myers" <SI.HATCH3@V...>
                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Hello all, I will try to give as much info as i can. I have a 26g
                                                                                                            > tall tank with 2 rocks, 1 stump, and 2 silk plants. A Tetratec
                                                                                                            150
                                                                                                            > filter and heater combo, air stone bar, and plenty of gravel. It
                                                                                                            > looks very nice.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > I have been fighting with it for a year now. I had a 45g hex 15
                                                                                                            > years ago that was so over stocked(from the fish breeding with out
                                                                                                            my
                                                                                                            > consent)that you couldn't see thru it, that I had no problems
                                                                                                            with.
                                                                                                            > I can't get fish to live in the 26g for more than 3 months.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > My pleco keeps all surfaces clean of algae, except the bacteria
                                                                                                            in
                                                                                                            > the filter that I was told never to clean. After I get it cycled
                                                                                                            and
                                                                                                            > all the fish in it, it looks good for a few weeks, then either
                                                                                                            clouds
                                                                                                            > up, or turns green. I don't put more than 5 to 7 small fish in
                                                                                                            it,
                                                                                                            > and I don't over feed. My last try was a blackmoore and a calico
                                                                                                            > fantail, with a pleco. They all got to be about 5 inches long and
                                                                                                            > lasted for about 6 months. The water was crystal clear. I got up
                                                                                                            > this morning, the water was so green u couldn't see thru it, the
                                                                                                            > goldfish were floating on the top, and I just saved the pleco.
                                                                                                            He's
                                                                                                            > in a bucket till I get home from work.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > I plan on doing a complete clean/restart when I get home until
                                                                                                            it
                                                                                                            > cycles again. According to my test kit, everything is in the safe
                                                                                                            > zone. Neutral ph, 0 nitrites, 40ppm nitrates, total alkalinity is
                                                                                                            80
                                                                                                            > (it says ideal is 120), I do have very hard water, like 250 on the
                                                                                                            > scale, I was told to add Doc Wellfishes sea salt, 1 table spoon
                                                                                                            per 5
                                                                                                            > gallons which usually brings it down to 150 or so.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > I plan on trying a few cory cats, maybe a dojo loach, and a few
                                                                                                            > small/med angels or other tropicals this time. Any advice is
                                                                                                            greatly
                                                                                                            > appreciated.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Thanks, AJ
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9682 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: New member question
                                                                                                            Hi Sue,

                                                                                                            Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                            Is it just the 1 neon doing this? Still? How are the other fish?


                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sue_s32134" <sue_s32134@y...>
                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Hi, new member here. I have a question about one of my neon
                                                                                                            tetras.
                                                                                                            > He started swimming very jerky and pulls to one side while
                                                                                                            > swimming. There are no other visable signs like ich or sores on
                                                                                                            him
                                                                                                            > and no stressful goings on in the tank. I thought I would lose
                                                                                                            him
                                                                                                            > last week after it started but he is still hanging in there. I
                                                                                                            was
                                                                                                            > also worried about other fish in tank getting the same affliction
                                                                                                            > but it has been a week and no others show any signs of ill
                                                                                                            health.
                                                                                                            > Can anyone tell me what has happened to him and any cures for this?
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > I have a 20 gal fresh water tank with all tetras. Six neons, one
                                                                                                            > long fin black tetra, one reg fin black tetra, one long fin white
                                                                                                            > tetra and one reg fin white tetra , 3 penguin tetras (I think that
                                                                                                            > is what they were called), 2 black neon tetras, and one blue and
                                                                                                            one
                                                                                                            > pink reg fin tetra (I think they are dyed). I got them when I
                                                                                                            first
                                                                                                            > set up my tank but since then have had miss-givings about bying
                                                                                                            dyed
                                                                                                            > fish. Could anyone explain the process is it acceptable practice
                                                                                                            > among this group?
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > TIA for info,
                                                                                                            > Sue
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9683 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Hi & Thanks
                                                                                                            Hi Shailendra,

                                                                                                            You are very welcome, thanks for joining.

                                                                                                            Aaron


                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "shailendra Indulkar"
                                                                                                            <indulkarshailu@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Hello,
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Thanks for the invitation to this group
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > ManyThanks
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9684 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Sex in fish
                                                                                                            Hi Shailendra,

                                                                                                            just checking to see if you have recieved any replies.

                                                                                                            I'm not familiar with Tilapia, other than it is on the the Menus
                                                                                                            here.

                                                                                                            Try: google.com for search engine, or check the links section in
                                                                                                            this group.

                                                                                                            I myself have only experiened the livebears like guppies, mollies,
                                                                                                            platies and swordtails. They mostly produce females. Seems logical
                                                                                                            as 1 male can fertilize many female. Swordtails can even change sex
                                                                                                            if not enough of the other is present.

                                                                                                            keep us informed of your progress with this experiment

                                                                                                            Aaron


                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "shailendra Indulkar"
                                                                                                            <indulkarshailu@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Dear Members ,
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > In nature ,how is sex of youngones decided?,Is it possible to
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > predetermine / decided the sex of yet to born young -ones?
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > I wish to conduct a small experiment to get : all male Tilapia .
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Could some one suggest a experiment ,materials and method .
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Some source of information some good web site are also most welcome
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > ManyThanks
                                                                                                            > indulkarshailu@y...
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9685 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Questions about Amazon Swords Dying?
                                                                                                            Hi All,

                                                                                                            I have (had?) 2 large plants, centerpiece was bigger than a
                                                                                                            basketball and the other on the side was about 2/3 as big.

                                                                                                            The tank is a 55gallon (about 4feet long x 2'high by 1wide).
                                                                                                            I had 4 - 55watt compact flourescents on timers 12 hours a day.
                                                                                                            1 bulb cracked when it got splashed. Then algae started growing
                                                                                                            alot. Thinking it was too much light causing the algae, I only had 1
                                                                                                            bulb on for about 7 hours for several days.

                                                                                                            Now the leaves are all laying almost flat and look almost see thro
                                                                                                            with lots of little holes. The central leaves are turning brown and
                                                                                                            falling off.

                                                                                                            I trimmed off most of the leaves that looked the worst.

                                                                                                            ? - Where do the New leaves grow from? the center or outside edges?

                                                                                                            I turned the 3 remaining lights back on timer 12hours/day.

                                                                                                            ?- Will these recover from 'being in the dark'?

                                                                                                            Aaron
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9686 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: offering 5 gallon set up with fish/snails
                                                                                                            Hi Renee,

                                                                                                            just checking to see if you sold you tank

                                                                                                            Aaron


                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "renee31477" <renee31477@y...>
                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Hi folks,
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Ive come to a point where I need to find a new home for my fish
                                                                                                            tank.
                                                                                                            > The set up includes a 5g planted tank with a simple sponge filter,
                                                                                                            > one amazon sword, one bunch of hornwort(floating), one betta, and
                                                                                                            2
                                                                                                            > apple snails.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > I had an outbreak of pest snails when I first set it up(LFS
                                                                                                            plants)
                                                                                                            > but other than that its a pretty healthy setup...
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > I will also throw in the gravel vacuum and a bucket for water
                                                                                                            > changes, snail and betta food, water conditioners, and even the
                                                                                                            test
                                                                                                            > strips I have.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Im offering this for $60 which is a steal when compared to buying
                                                                                                            all
                                                                                                            > this stuff new(about $125) but will take the best offer. As long
                                                                                                            as
                                                                                                            > it goes to someone that will take care of it, thats my main
                                                                                                            concern.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > I hope its not inappropriate to do this, but like I said I wanted
                                                                                                            to
                                                                                                            > offer it to experienced folks(or at least ones that are willing to
                                                                                                            > learn). If I have to part with them, I want them to go to a caring
                                                                                                            > home.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > please email me privately for questions/offers.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Renee
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > P.S. I live in Ann Arbor Michigan and want the set up to be picked
                                                                                                            up
                                                                                                            > by new owner.
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9687 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Stacey's Mollies
                                                                                                            Hi Stacey,

                                                                                                            The males are usually smaller and have an 'xtra' part underneath
                                                                                                            behind the bottom center fin

                                                                                                            Aaron

                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Stacey Mallow
                                                                                                            <krazy4mypets@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                            > I just looked at my Mollies -it looks like I have 2 females and I
                                                                                                            male the 2 are bigger than the black one. The 2 have pointed tails
                                                                                                            and the black one has more of a rounded tail. i have to go to town
                                                                                                            be back later.
                                                                                                            > Thanks for the Help!
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Stacey
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                            > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                            > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9688 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Endlers Swordtails?
                                                                                                            Hi Audrey,

                                                                                                            Sounds interesting, take good care of him and try to selective breed
                                                                                                            him only and see if his kids have the same trait.

                                                                                                            I've not had any endlers yet.

                                                                                                            I do have the rest of the livebearers and I mixed some female Mickey
                                                                                                            Mouse Platies and Sunset Fire Platies with a male Swordtail -
                                                                                                            and now I have some hybred "Sunset-Fire-Mickey-Mouse-Swordtails"!

                                                                                                            So I know platy and swordtails will interbreed as they have similar
                                                                                                            latin names.
                                                                                                            I know endlers will breed with guppies.
                                                                                                            Do not think endlers and swordtails would breed tho.

                                                                                                            I have seen lyretails that look like endlers.

                                                                                                            Hope that helps, keep us posted,
                                                                                                            Aaron

                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Audrey Archer <arch1574@b...>
                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                            > New topic - my Endlers have been happily breeding in their
                                                                                                            planted tank, and today I saw a male who has a REAL sword tail - not
                                                                                                            just the red markings on the clear fin that they all have, but an
                                                                                                            actual physical extension beyond the rest of the fin.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > I do not and never have had any "Swordtails" that could have
                                                                                                            inbred, and I do not believe Swordtails are even Poecilia species,
                                                                                                            are they?
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Audrey
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > 10 gal FW Planted Tank
                                                                                                            > 4 Golden White Clouds (?)
                                                                                                            > MANY Endler's Livebearers
                                                                                                            > a few pond snails
                                                                                                            > 10 gal Brackish Tank
                                                                                                            > empty :-(
                                                                                                            > 29 gal high pH tank
                                                                                                            > one adult pair Convict cichlids
                                                                                                            > about 40 - 50 1/2 inch fry (now getting nice markings
                                                                                                            and available to good homes)
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Savannah Georgia USA
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9689 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: UGF (was- Re: hello)
                                                                                                            ">Never thought I would see the day that underground filters were
                                                                                                            > out of style. They always worked so well for me :)"

                                                                                                            What are you saying - I still use UGFs and they still sell them.
                                                                                                            I've heard people put em down, but do not know why?

                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Rosaholic <rosaholic@g...> wrote:
                                                                                                            > Same here. I missed the hobby, and am enjoying all the new
                                                                                                            technology
                                                                                                            > that is out there for aquariums now. It's like learning all over
                                                                                                            > again! Never thought I would see the day that underground filters
                                                                                                            were
                                                                                                            > out of style. They always worked so well for me :)
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > --
                                                                                                            > Chat with you later,
                                                                                                            > Alan
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9690 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Blood parrot and brown spots
                                                                                                            Just a thought, have you gotten a close look? Worked at a store that
                                                                                                            had problems with fish lice for awhile. They would sometimes stay in
                                                                                                            the same spot for days while we battled them with meds and physically
                                                                                                            removing them. I know the original message was from a few days ago, but
                                                                                                            it just struck me.....

                                                                                                            "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9691 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Digest Number 663
                                                                                                            Several years ago, TFH magazine ran an articale of aquarium myths.
                                                                                                            Either at, or near the top of the list was the use of iodized salt and
                                                                                                            the complete lack of harm it creates. I've used iodized salt almost
                                                                                                            exclucively for years and have found no ill effects. Of course I don't
                                                                                                            tell my customers this.....

                                                                                                            "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9692 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Pacific Coast Cichlid Association , 4/9/2005, 7:00 pm
                                                                                                            Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                                                                                                            Pacific Coast Cichlid Association

                                                                                                            Saturday April 9, 2005
                                                                                                            7:00 pm - 10:00 pm
                                                                                                            This event repeats on the second Saturday of every month.
                                                                                                            The next reminder for this event will be sent in 10 days, 23 hours, 4 minutes.

                                                                                                            Event Location: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Avenue in San Jose, California
                                                                                                            Notes:
                                                                                                            The PCCA meets every second Saturday of the month. Meetings are held a the Round Table Pizza parlor located at 4302 Moorpark Avenue in San Jose, California

                                                                                                            http://www.cichlidworld.com/

                                                                                                            February 12: Pam Chin
                                                                                                            Breeding Malawi Cichlids

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                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9693 From: Lauri Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Questions about Amazon Swords Dying?
                                                                                                            Hi Aaron,
                                                                                                            I have a Sword, and I can share what I've seen; but
                                                                                                            I am just learning about plants myself.

                                                                                                            I have had mine about 2 months - the first month it was
                                                                                                            growing like crazy, new leaves and many new shoots which I was
                                                                                                            cutting once they reached 2-3", and replanting. After about 5-6
                                                                                                            weeks, the leaves of the main plant started turning brown, and
                                                                                                            getting holes.
                                                                                                            I asked the lfs manager, he said he hears that a lot, that after
                                                                                                            about a month or 2 they do this.

                                                                                                            But, now mine have lots of new leaves coming up.
                                                                                                            They also have new shoots growing on them too.

                                                                                                            I had also split mine into two plants - which probably didn't help
                                                                                                            the situation - but both halves are coming back nicely. It appears
                                                                                                            the leaves are mostly growing from the outer edges of the root bulb
                                                                                                            on one of the two; but on the other one, the leaves are growing up
                                                                                                            from the center, and pushing the older leaves to the outside.

                                                                                                            I don't have as bright of lighting as they really require either.
                                                                                                            But I have the lights on probably 16 hours a day.

                                                                                                            The shoots I replanted are, for the most part, doing ok too.
                                                                                                            There is new leaf growth on some of them, and the roots are growing.
                                                                                                            I have planted them close together.

                                                                                                            So, I just wanted to tell you my experience, and to say don't
                                                                                                            give up on it, it'll probably come back ok. I've been cutting the
                                                                                                            bad leaves off too.
                                                                                                            Lauri
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9694 From: harry perry Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Questions about Amazon Swords Dying?/To Aaron
                                                                                                            Amazon swords seem to recover from everything. It is a low light plant (1 watt per gallon) your tank was 4 watts per gallon. You had a delicate balance with nutrients, light being a nutrient.
                                                                                                            Plants were growing fast using up the nutrients once they slowed up algae set in.In my 29 gal.I have 2 swords, 1 watt per gal. but with co2 injection. A few months ago I gave a sword back to my LFS(he sold it for $7.00) It grew soo big it was blocking the light. They will recover. The timer is important. It is the only constant you have. I set mine for 12 hours a day and adjust everything to that.
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            Harry

                                                                                                            Aaron <aaron_r_martin@...> wrote:

                                                                                                            Hi All,

                                                                                                            I have (had?) 2 large plants, centerpiece was bigger than a
                                                                                                            basketball and the other on the side was about 2/3 as big.

                                                                                                            The tank is a 55gallon (about 4feet long x 2'high by 1wide).
                                                                                                            I had 4 - 55watt compact flourescents on timers 12 hours a day.
                                                                                                            1 bulb cracked when it got splashed. Then algae started growing
                                                                                                            alot. Thinking it was too much light causing the algae, I only had 1
                                                                                                            bulb on for about 7 hours for several days.

                                                                                                            Now the leaves are all laying almost flat and look almost see thro
                                                                                                            with lots of little holes. The central leaves are turning brown and
                                                                                                            falling off.

                                                                                                            I trimmed off most of the leaves that looked the worst.

                                                                                                            ? - Where do the New leaves grow from? the center or outside edges?

                                                                                                            I turned the 3 remaining lights back on timer 12hours/day.

                                                                                                            ?- Will these recover from 'being in the dark'?

                                                                                                            Aaron





                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                            __________________________________________________
                                                                                                            Do You Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9695 From: Fish Bloke Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: hello
                                                                                                            Currently I have Goyder R. Trifasciata, Nigrans, Werneri, P. signifer, Inornata, Praecox.  Soon I should be getting Incisus, Bitanta (spelling?) and Boesmani.  I also have peacock gudgeons.
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            I also have loads of plants.  If anyone Australians are interested, email me direct.
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            Cheers,
                                                                                                            Phil.
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                            \                                                                 
                                                                                                            The Rainbows are fairly popular here in the States.  Are there any
                                                                                                            certain ones that you keep (like M. Maccullochi, or?)?  There are
                                                                                                            some real nice Gudgeons which should be fairly easy for you to
                                                                                                            obtain.  Can I presume you have some of these as well?              
                                                                                                            \                                                      
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9696 From: Lauri Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Update on Violet Goby
                                                                                                            Just wanted to let those who answered my questions about
                                                                                                            my goby know that I have gotten him his own tank, with all
                                                                                                            sand bottom, some nice caves, and will be bringing it up to
                                                                                                            a full brackish tank. He seems more comfortable having
                                                                                                            the sand. Am looking into plants and a couple tankmates for it.
                                                                                                            Thanks for all the advice!

                                                                                                            Our next project is to set up a 180g to move our Oscars and
                                                                                                            Pacus and a few other of the big fish into - all the Cichlids and
                                                                                                            Pacus are growing fast, and so is the Maroon shark....so, they
                                                                                                            will get a bigger home soon, and we're thinking of making the
                                                                                                            current tank into an African Cichlid tank after the move.

                                                                                                            Otherwise, all the rest of our fish are doing great, and we are
                                                                                                            really enjoying them!

                                                                                                            Lauri
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9697 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: SWIM BLADDER DISEASE
                                                                                                            Hello,
                                                                                                            I have a catfish (not a cory CAT) a bullhead out of a creek. I've had
                                                                                                            him about a year. I've noticed the past 3 days that he has been having
                                                                                                            trouble staying on the bottom of the tank like he usually does he
                                                                                                            seems to be floating towards the top. Any help of how to cure this? I
                                                                                                            didn't post it in the er because I didn't think it was life threating.
                                                                                                            Right away at least.
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9698 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Endlers Swordtails?
                                                                                                            Hello audrey,
                                                                                                            I tried to find your original post to write to just you but
                                                                                                            couldn't find it. You said they where looking for new homes are you
                                                                                                            interested in shipping any. Or are you close to kansas or missouri?


                                                                                                            > > New topic - my Endlers have been happily breeding in their
                                                                                                            > planted tank, and today I saw a male who has a REAL sword tail - not
                                                                                                            > just the red markings on the clear fin that they all have, but an
                                                                                                            > actual physical extension beyond the rest of the fin.
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > > I do not and never have had any "Swordtails" that could have
                                                                                                            > inbred, and I do not believe Swordtails are even Poecilia species,
                                                                                                            > are they?
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > > Audrey
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > > 10 gal FW Planted Tank
                                                                                                            > > 4 Golden White Clouds (?)
                                                                                                            > > MANY Endler's Livebearers
                                                                                                            > > a few pond snails
                                                                                                            > > 10 gal Brackish Tank
                                                                                                            > > empty :-(
                                                                                                            > > 29 gal high pH tank
                                                                                                            > > one adult pair Convict cichlids
                                                                                                            > > about 40 - 50 1/2 inch fry (now getting nice markings
                                                                                                            > and available to good homes)
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > > Savannah Georgia USA
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9699 From: Linda Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Triops Photos By Linda
                                                                                                            Hi guys,

                                                                                                            aaron - r-martin requested pictures of my Triops. I have posted them
                                                                                                            in the photos in an album called Triops Photos by Linda. I think
                                                                                                            there are eight pics. It is really hard to get them to sit still so
                                                                                                            I could take their pictures. They really go very fast. I had nine
                                                                                                            but now am down to 6. They seem to fight and kill each other. They
                                                                                                            are very ugly creatures... but they are really amazing to watch.

                                                                                                            I have not decided to feed them to Oscar and Rasco.

                                                                                                            I have Rasco in his 2.5 aquarium and this morning I had noticed that
                                                                                                            he made me a very "BIG" "Bubble Nest" It is almost the 1/4 size of
                                                                                                            his tank.

                                                                                                            I purchased "Lilly Bulbs" that are Live Aquarium Plants. They are
                                                                                                            guaranteed to grow. just drop the bulbs into the aquarium and watch
                                                                                                            them grow (3" to 5" in just 20 days). I keep looking but have not
                                                                                                            seen any change.

                                                                                                            Check out the photo album for Triops Photos by Linda

                                                                                                            Betta smootches from Olivet
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9700 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: hello
                                                                                                            G'day Phil
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            Batantas are nice little fish and are not usually very easy to obtain. I have 2 strains of Pacific Blue-eyes (Kandanga and Coliseum Ck), Spotted Blue-eyes, Mel. papuae - all kept outside year-round. I may be able to swap you some plants from time to time.
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            Cheers
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            Bruce
                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                            From: Fish Bloke
                                                                                                            Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 1:59 PM
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: hello

                                                                                                            Currently I have Goyder R. Trifasciata, Nigrans, Werneri, P. signifer, Inornata, Praecox.  Soon I should be getting Incisus, Bitanta (spelling?) and Boesmani.  I also have peacock gudgeons.
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            I also have loads of plants.  If anyone Australians are interested, email me direct.
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9701 From: scott johnston Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: hi all i am new to
                                                                                                            hello all im new to the group i have a 55 gallon tank and a 10 gallon
                                                                                                            tank . my 55 gallon tank has a jack dempcy 2 parrot fish one oscar 3
                                                                                                            convicts and one pleco.oh and one kissing fish to. in the 10 gallon
                                                                                                            tank i have one female convict that i use for breeding , i feed the
                                                                                                            baby convicts to the fish in the bigger tank ..
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9702 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: hello
                                                                                                            G'day Phil
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            Nice to hear someone else from Brisbane is on the list. I used to collect, keep and breed a lot of Australian and PNG natives but now just keep a couple of low-tech plant tanks and grow a few plants outside in tubs and my swimming pool that I have converted to a fishpond since my kids grew up and left home.
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            Good luck with the aquarium servicing business.
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            Cheers
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            Bruce
                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                            From: Fish Bloke
                                                                                                            Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 10:02 AM
                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] hello

                                                                                                            Hi,
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            I am new to this list.  I have been keeping fish since I was 8.  I am a qualified aquaculturalist and now run an aquarium supply in servicing business.  I am in Brisbane, Australia.
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            Currently I keep african cichlids, planted tanks, Australian Rainbows
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9703 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Pleco problems
                                                                                                            my plec & ottos LOVE blanched zucchini. they are so-so about the wafers but will eat them if the zucchini is gone.

                                                                                                            Amalthea <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                                                                            when you have a pleco, you can't depend on the tank's algae to feed
                                                                                                            him! you must also feed them algae wafers and preferably some veggies
                                                                                                            (zucchini, cabbage, etc) or they'll starve.
                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                            Do evil clowns give you a funny feeling? Join us at:
                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/puppetterrors/
                                                                                                            All the cool kids are doing it....
                                                                                                            On Mar 25, 2005, at 5:39 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                                            > I don�t think his stomach is concaved but I�ll stick some cucumber in
                                                                                                            > there tonight along with some extra algae wafers.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > I wouldn�t doubt if that were the problem as the tank is only a few
                                                                                                            > weeks old.  I can�t imagine there would be much in there for him to
                                                                                                            > eat at this point.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Thanks for the heads up.  I�ll keep an eye on him.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                            > From: clarkmariposo25@... [mailto:clarkmariposo25@...]
                                                                                                            > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 9:42 PM
                                                                                                            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                            > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco problems
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > try taking a look at his belly. is it concaved in or is it clearly
                                                                                                            > full? if it is concaved, he is not getting enough to eat. Does he have
                                                                                                            > any hiding places and how is the water?
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                            > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                            > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                            > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                            > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                            > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                            > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                            Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9704 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Betta
                                                                                                            Hi everyone

                                                                                                            something really strange and peculiar happened in my
                                                                                                            tanks late yesterday! i have 4 betta tanks all filled
                                                                                                            with the same water having all 4 sponge filters and
                                                                                                            same setup evrything the same! now at the beginning
                                                                                                            the fish were great doing all four then this morning i
                                                                                                            found one of the four males dead in it's and even the
                                                                                                            female was dead as well in the same tank! the
                                                                                                            temperature is fine and no toxins fell in the tank or
                                                                                                            the water was toxic becuase the other would have died
                                                                                                            as well! The other interesting thing is that the nest
                                                                                                            is built and fukky intact! The other 3 betta well 2
                                                                                                            have a good very good nest and the other has no
                                                                                                            interest at all (its a blue plakat)
                                                                                                            What do you think? i am out of ideas!

                                                                                                            Nigel

                                                                                                            Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9705 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: hi all i am new to
                                                                                                            Hi Scott,

                                                                                                            Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                            I don't know anything about the convicts but am curious as to the
                                                                                                            comment - ">i feed the baby convicts to the fish in the bigger tank"

                                                                                                            I have mostly Livebearers myself, and some fry do get eaten in the
                                                                                                            community tank. However I do sell the fry to a LFS for at least $1
                                                                                                            each. So its in my best intrest to keep as many alive as I resonably
                                                                                                            can.

                                                                                                            Is there no market for the baby convicts?

                                                                                                            Just curious,
                                                                                                            Aaron


                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "scott johnston"
                                                                                                            <scott_johnston75@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > hello all im new to the group i have a 55 gallon tank and a 10
                                                                                                            gallon
                                                                                                            > tank . my 55 gallon tank has a jack dempcy 2 parrot fish one oscar
                                                                                                            3
                                                                                                            > convicts and one pleco.oh and one kissing fish to. in the 10
                                                                                                            gallon
                                                                                                            > tank i have one female convict that i use for breeding , i feed
                                                                                                            the
                                                                                                            > baby convicts to the fish in the bigger tank ..
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9706 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                            how old are your bettas? perhaps they passed away from simply being old.

                                                                                                            Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@...> wrote:
                                                                                                            Hi everyone

                                                                                                            something really strange and peculiar happened in my
                                                                                                            tanks late yesterday! i have 4 betta tanks all filled
                                                                                                            with the same water having all 4 sponge filters and
                                                                                                            same setup evrything the same! now at the beginning
                                                                                                            the fish were great doing all four then this morning i
                                                                                                            found one of the four males dead in it's and even the
                                                                                                            female was dead as well in the same tank! the
                                                                                                            temperature is fine and no toxins fell in the tank or
                                                                                                            the water was toxic becuase the other would have died
                                                                                                            as well! The other interesting thing is that the nest
                                                                                                            is built and fukky intact! The other 3 betta well 2
                                                                                                            have a good very good nest and the other has no
                                                                                                            interest at all (its a blue plakat)
                                                                                                            What do you think? i am out of ideas!

                                                                                                            Nigel

                                                                                                            Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter





                                                                                                            Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9707 From: Aaron Date: 3/26/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                            Hi Nigel,

                                                                                                            Were the bettas mating?

                                                                                                            I've heard they can beat each other up really bad doing so.

                                                                                                            Are there any eggs in the nest?



                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                            <nigelchetcuti@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                            > Hi everyone
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > something really strange and peculiar happened in my
                                                                                                            > tanks late yesterday! i have 4 betta tanks all filled
                                                                                                            > with the same water having all 4 sponge filters and
                                                                                                            > same setup evrything the same! now at the beginning
                                                                                                            > the fish were great doing all four then this morning i
                                                                                                            > found one of the four males dead in it's and even the
                                                                                                            > female was dead as well in the same tank! the
                                                                                                            > temperature is fine and no toxins fell in the tank or
                                                                                                            > the water was toxic becuase the other would have died
                                                                                                            > as well! The other interesting thing is that the nest
                                                                                                            > is built and fukky intact! The other 3 betta well 2
                                                                                                            > have a good very good nest and the other has no
                                                                                                            > interest at all (its a blue plakat)
                                                                                                            > What do you think? i am out of ideas!
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Nigel
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Send instant messages to your online friends
                                                                                                            http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9708 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: American Livebearer Association (ALA) Convention, 4/10/2005, 12:00
                                                                                                            Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                            American Livebearer Association (ALA) Convention

                                                                                                            Sunday April 10, 2005
                                                                                                            All Day
                                                                                                            This event repeats every day, until Monday April 11, 2005.
                                                                                                            The next reminder for this event will be sent in 9 days, 22 hours, 56 minutes.

                                                                                                            Event Location: Indianapolis
                                                                                                            Notes:
                                                                                                            livebearers.org

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                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9709 From: paul helms Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: hello
                                                                                                            they are still the best thing you can do for a fresh
                                                                                                            water tank no matter what anyone says. we just set up
                                                                                                            store in a new location with all new tanks. every
                                                                                                            single one has a ugf on it
                                                                                                            --- Rosaholic <rosaholic@...> wrote:
                                                                                                            > Same here. I missed the hobby, and am enjoying all
                                                                                                            > the new technology
                                                                                                            > that is out there for aquariums now. It's like
                                                                                                            > learning all over
                                                                                                            > again! Never thought I would see the day that
                                                                                                            > underground filters were
                                                                                                            > out of style. They always worked so well for me :)
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > --
                                                                                                            > Chat with you later,
                                                                                                            > Alan
                                                                                                            > --
                                                                                                            > Chandler, Arizona
                                                                                                            > Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                            > http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                            > ----
                                                                                                            > *** Five new gardening mail list now available on
                                                                                                            > GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                                                            > *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners',
                                                                                                            > ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
                                                                                                            > *** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening
                                                                                                            > list called "OutGardening".
                                                                                                            > *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers
                                                                                                            > can find your address.
                                                                                                            > *** Check them out at:
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/listinfo/
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > ***** 98% of all statistics is useless !
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > J G wrote:
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > >hey guys... My name is Jason... I had a tank when
                                                                                                            > I
                                                                                                            > >was younger, but kinda "grew out" of it till
                                                                                                            > recently.
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >



                                                                                                            __________________________________
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                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9710 From: paul helms Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                            sounds like they killed eachhother
                                                                                                            --- Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@...> wrote:
                                                                                                            > Hi everyone
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > something really strange and peculiar happened in my
                                                                                                            > tanks late yesterday! i have 4 betta tanks all
                                                                                                            > filled
                                                                                                            > with the same water having all 4 sponge filters and
                                                                                                            > same setup evrything the same! now at the beginning
                                                                                                            > the fish were great doing all four then this morning
                                                                                                            > i
                                                                                                            > found one of the four males dead in it's and even
                                                                                                            > the
                                                                                                            > female was dead as well in the same tank! the
                                                                                                            > temperature is fine and no toxins fell in the tank
                                                                                                            > or
                                                                                                            > the water was toxic becuase the other would have
                                                                                                            > died
                                                                                                            > as well! The other interesting thing is that the
                                                                                                            > nest
                                                                                                            > is built and fukky intact! The other 3 betta well 2
                                                                                                            > have a good very good nest and the other has no
                                                                                                            > interest at all (its a blue plakat)
                                                                                                            > What do you think? i am out of ideas!
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Nigel
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Send instant messages to your online friends
                                                                                                            > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                                            >



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                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9711 From: paul helms Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new to the group.
                                                                                                            dying or disappearing?
                                                                                                            --- whatsdiggin <whatsdiggin@...> wrote:
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Can someone please help me I'm new to fish
                                                                                                            > breeding. I'm breeding
                                                                                                            > guppies to start out with. And my babies keep dieing
                                                                                                            > one by one. Can
                                                                                                            > someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >



                                                                                                            __________________________________
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                                                                                                            Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                                            http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9712 From: paul helms Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: introducing myself
                                                                                                            plants need about 12 hours of light per day, without
                                                                                                            it they will pale and die. depending on your algae
                                                                                                            killer, it may or may not be safe for plants.
                                                                                                            --- Rachel <star9crystal@...> wrote:
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > hi! my name is Rachel I'm 18 years old and I go to
                                                                                                            > college. I've kept
                                                                                                            > a 5.5 gal tank for around 3 years, it now holds 8
                                                                                                            > tetras (4glowlights
                                                                                                            > and 4 neons) and 5 live plants. I recently fell in
                                                                                                            > love with bettas,
                                                                                                            > and now own 5. I also am crazy for my 2 black moore
                                                                                                            > goldfish.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > I have a question on live plants. Um... why are my
                                                                                                            > plants turning pale
                                                                                                            > yellow and like... dying...
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > ive turned the light off a lot more because im only
                                                                                                            > home once a day or
                                                                                                            > so and the tank got a big splash of algae, so ive
                                                                                                            > been using algaefix
                                                                                                            > for that...
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > and does anyone know why one of my black moore
                                                                                                            > goldfish chills at the
                                                                                                            > top on his side sometimes...??? he does it a lot,
                                                                                                            > from what i've seen,
                                                                                                            > not too much recently. But he eats fine and is
                                                                                                            > active otherwise.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > i will put up pictures later of my beloved wet pets.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >



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                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 9713 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                              Wait wait wait. It seems like you have them together? You can't put bettas together specially if the space is limited. You can put at least 4 females and a male in a big tank and with lots of hiding places. Plakats are tough and would kill the other bettas cause plakats have tough skin or scales and sharper teeth than the ordinary males (veil, twin, crown, half moon). You can be lucky to have 2 males in a same aquarium without them fighting to the death. They are called Siamese fighting fish cause if you put 2 males in a small space they will fight to the death. The only time you can put a male and female (alone) is when you are breeding and even in breeding expect the female to get hurt even the male will get bitten by the female. The female has to be ready (full belly with eggs), and you have to put them in separate containers but in the same aquarium (example the male in the main aquarium and a container with the female inside and placed inside the main aquarium). They have to be able to see each other but can't touch each other. Also make sure there is a little space on top of the aquarium so there is an air on the top of the aquarium (meaning the water isn't full to the brim).
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Date: 03/26/05 21:31:36
                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Hi everyone

                                                                                                              something really strange and peculiar happened in my
                                                                                                              tanks late yesterday! i have 4 betta tanks all filled
                                                                                                              with the same water having all 4 sponge filters and
                                                                                                              same setup evrything the same! now at the beginning
                                                                                                              the fish were great doing all four then this morning i
                                                                                                              found one of the four males dead in it's and even the
                                                                                                              female was dead as well in the same tank! the
                                                                                                              temperature is fine and no toxins fell in the tank or
                                                                                                              the water was toxic becuase the other would have died
                                                                                                              as well! The other interesting thing is that the nest
                                                                                                              is built and fukky intact! The other 3 betta well 2
                                                                                                              have a good very good nest and the other has no
                                                                                                              interest at all (its a blue plakat)
                                                                                                              What do you think? i am out of ideas!

                                                                                                              Nigel

                                                                                                              Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                              ..
                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9714 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                              i just re-read your post & some other posts. you have ALL these
                                                                                                              bettas in the same tank? OY!!!! that does not sound like a good idea
                                                                                                              at all. what size is your tank? if it's really big you could possibly
                                                                                                              get away with it.

                                                                                                              i have 2 of my males in a small divided tank. one day 1 of them
                                                                                                              jumped the divider (i stupidly filled the tank too full after a water
                                                                                                              change) and he just about killed the other betta. the only reason
                                                                                                              he's still alive is because i came home in time to catch them &
                                                                                                              separate them again.

                                                                                                              there is a reason they're called siamese fighter fish -- because
                                                                                                              their natural instinct is to fight. both males & females.

                                                                                                              i would suggest separating them into different tanks, unless you're
                                                                                                              planning on breeding them. even then you'll need to keep a very close
                                                                                                              watch on them.

                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                              <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                              > how old are your bettas? perhaps they passed away from simply being
                                                                                                              old.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@y...> wrote:Hi everyone
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > something really strange and peculiar happened in my
                                                                                                              > tanks late yesterday! i have 4 betta tanks all filled
                                                                                                              > with the same water having all 4 sponge filters and
                                                                                                              > same setup evrything the same! now at the beginning
                                                                                                              > the fish were great doing all four then this morning i
                                                                                                              > found one of the four males dead in it's and even the
                                                                                                              > female was dead as well in the same tank! the
                                                                                                              > temperature is fine and no toxins fell in the tank or
                                                                                                              > the water was toxic becuase the other would have died
                                                                                                              > as well! The other interesting thing is that the nest
                                                                                                              > is built and fukky intact! The other 3 betta well 2
                                                                                                              > have a good very good nest and the other has no
                                                                                                              > interest at all (its a blue plakat)
                                                                                                              > What do you think? i am out of ideas!
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Nigel
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Send instant messages to your online friends
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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9715 From: wendie Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                              They might have injured each other to the point of no return.
                                                                                                              If the female was not ready to breed it's possible.
                                                                                                              Wendie
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                              From: Valeen Gonzalez [mailto:valeendgonzalez@...]
                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 3:40 AM
                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Betta


                                                                                                              i just re-read your post & some other posts. you have ALL these
                                                                                                              bettas in the same tank? OY!!!! that does not sound like a good idea
                                                                                                              at all. what size is your tank? if it's really big you could possibly
                                                                                                              get away with it.

                                                                                                              i have 2 of my males in a small divided tank. one day 1 of them
                                                                                                              jumped the divider (i stupidly filled the tank too full after a water
                                                                                                              change) and he just about killed the other betta. the only reason
                                                                                                              he's still alive is because i came home in time to catch them &
                                                                                                              separate them again.

                                                                                                              there is a reason they're called siamese fighter fish -- because
                                                                                                              their natural instinct is to fight. both males & females.

                                                                                                              i would suggest separating them into different tanks, unless you're
                                                                                                              planning on breeding them. even then you'll need to keep a very close
                                                                                                              watch on them.

                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                              <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                              > how old are your bettas? perhaps they passed away from simply being
                                                                                                              old.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@y...> wrote:Hi everyone
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > something really strange and peculiar happened in my
                                                                                                              > tanks late yesterday! i have 4 betta tanks all filled
                                                                                                              > with the same water having all 4 sponge filters and
                                                                                                              > same setup evrything the same! now at the beginning
                                                                                                              > the fish were great doing all four then this morning i
                                                                                                              > found one of the four males dead in it's and even the
                                                                                                              > female was dead as well in the same tank! the
                                                                                                              > temperature is fine and no toxins fell in the tank or
                                                                                                              > the water was toxic becuase the other would have died
                                                                                                              > as well! The other interesting thing is that the nest
                                                                                                              > is built and fukky intact! The other 3 betta well 2
                                                                                                              > have a good very good nest and the other has no
                                                                                                              > interest at all (its a blue plakat)
                                                                                                              > What do you think? i am out of ideas!
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Nigel
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Send instant messages to your online friends
                                                                                                              http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                              thanks
                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                              important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
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                                                                                                              > Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!





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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9716 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Stacey's Mollies
                                                                                                              Okay~
                                                                                                              You have a great Easter!
                                                                                                              Stacey

                                                                                                              Aaron <aaron_r_martin@...> wrote:

                                                                                                              Hi Stacey,

                                                                                                              The males are usually smaller and have an 'xtra' part underneath
                                                                                                              behind the bottom center fin

                                                                                                              Aaron

                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Stacey Mallow
                                                                                                              <krazy4mypets@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                              > I just looked at my Mollies -it looks like I have 2 females and I
                                                                                                              male the 2 are bigger than the black one. The 2 have pointed tails
                                                                                                              and the black one has more of a rounded tail.  i have to go to town
                                                                                                              be back later.
                                                                                                              > Thanks for the Help!

                                                                                                              > Stacey
                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9717 From: Aaron Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                              Subject: Group Colors?
                                                                                                              Hi All,

                                                                                                              Did somebunny get in the Easter spirit and dye the group pastel?

                                                                                                              Just wondering what happened.

                                                                                                              If so maybe we could change colors for all International Holiday?

                                                                                                              Just missed St. Patty's day, whats next?
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9718 From: whatsdiggin Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                              Subject: Hello, I'm to to the group.
                                                                                                              Hi, my name is Ruth. And I'm new to the group. Just wanted to say Hi
                                                                                                              to everyone. I'm also new to fish breeding, I'm doing something wrong
                                                                                                              and I don't know what it is. I'm breeding guppies,the babies are 1
                                                                                                              month old and one by one the babies are dieing and I don't understand
                                                                                                              why? The parents are doing great, my 10 gal. tank is divided, parents
                                                                                                              on one side and babies on the other Can someone please help me with
                                                                                                              this. Thanks, Have A Great Day!!
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9719 From: ruth eubanks Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new to the group.
                                                                                                              They are dying, and the back fin does not look right (tail). The parents are in the same tank (divded) and are doing good. 

                                                                                                              paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                              dying or disappearing?
                                                                                                              --- whatsdiggin <whatsdiggin@...> wrote:
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >  Can someone please help me I'm new to fish
                                                                                                              > breeding. I'm breeding
                                                                                                              > guppies to start out with. And my babies keep dieing
                                                                                                              > one by one. Can
                                                                                                              > someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >


                                                                                                                         
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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9720 From: Steve Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Hello, I'm to to the group.
                                                                                                              What are you providing the young fry with for food? There are some excellent
                                                                                                              foods available for young fry out there, or you could make your own. If you
                                                                                                              are willing, you can even raise up some live foods for them and/or the
                                                                                                              parents.

                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                              From: whatsdiggin [mailto:whatsdiggin@...]
                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 10:38 AM
                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello, I'm to to the group.



                                                                                                              Hi, my name is Ruth. And I'm new to the group. Just wanted to say Hi
                                                                                                              to everyone. I'm also new to fish breeding, I'm doing something wrong
                                                                                                              and I don't know what it is. I'm breeding guppies,the babies are 1
                                                                                                              month old and one by one the babies are dieing and I don't understand
                                                                                                              why? The parents are doing great, my 10 gal. tank is divided, parents
                                                                                                              on one side and babies on the other Can someone please help me with
                                                                                                              this. Thanks, Have A Great Day!!







                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                              .
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                                                                                                              the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
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                                                                                                              in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9721 From: Anne Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                              Subject: new 30 gal.- stocking?
                                                                                                              I would appreciate some advice on stocking a new 30
                                                                                                              gal. rect. tank. It will contain a shark, either a red
                                                                                                              tailed black shark, or a bala (for no more then 1yr.
                                                                                                              then moved to a larger tank) Everything I've read
                                                                                                              indicates the bala shark in more peaceful but grows
                                                                                                              large. Will it outgrow the 30 prior to a year? As far
                                                                                                              as the black shark, while my reading shows it doesn't
                                                                                                              grow as large, some articles say to keep 3, other
                                                                                                              articles say only 1 and that they are aggressive to
                                                                                                              other fish. While I don't want a 30 occupied by a
                                                                                                              single fish, neither do I want a massacre. Compatible
                                                                                                              tank mates?
                                                                                                              Finally, can either shark be kept (safely) with
                                                                                                              cories? Thanks
                                                                                                              Anne




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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9722 From: paul helms Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new to the group.
                                                                                                              soundsw like birth defects...guppy fry should live in
                                                                                                              just about any consditions, even when the parents
                                                                                                              don't. i feed crushed flake and have raised 1000's
                                                                                                              --- ruth eubanks <whatsdiggin@...> wrote:
                                                                                                              > They are dying, and the back fin does not look right
                                                                                                              > (tail). The parents are in the same tank (divded)
                                                                                                              > and are doing good.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:dying or
                                                                                                              > disappearing?
                                                                                                              > --- whatsdiggin <whatsdiggin@...> wrote:
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > Can someone please help me I'm new to fish
                                                                                                              > > breeding. I'm breeding
                                                                                                              > > guppies to start out with. And my babies keep
                                                                                                              > dieing
                                                                                                              > > one by one. Can
                                                                                                              > > someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong.
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > __________________________________
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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9723 From: Anne Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                              Nigel said "something really strange and peculiar
                                                                                                              happened in my tanks late yesterday! i have 4 betta
                                                                                                              tanks ..."

                                                                                                              Sorry to hear about your betas.
                                                                                                              I just reread your post and it says you have 4 tanks.
                                                                                                              Were you using one to try to breed the male and
                                                                                                              female? It is curious that both died but if she
                                                                                                              wasn't ready to breed, they could have been fighting.
                                                                                                              Are the fins frayed, torn, etc? I have betas (5) each
                                                                                                              in it's own tank. In the case on my oldest male the
                                                                                                              female is in a tank next to his. He is constantly
                                                                                                              making nests so I don't know that the fully formed
                                                                                                              nest would indicate they breed. How are the other 2
                                                                                                              doing? Hope they are ok.
                                                                                                              Anne

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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9724 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: hi all i am new to(convicts)
                                                                                                              Convicts are probally the most prolific cichlids. They will have a batch of eggs every 30-45 days with upwards to 200 per batch. The success rate of these eggs are usually around 80-90%.
                                                                                                              So  as you can see someone can easily have upwards of a 1000 fry within a few months.
                                                                                                              They breed so readily that there is NO market for them that I know of. Distributors sell these little rabbits of the water world for a $.50 /dozen in my area. And the LFS sell then for $.99 each .


                                                                                                              rob
                                                                                                              Indiana


                                                                                                              In a message dated 3/27/2005 2:40:10 AM US Eastern Standard Time, aaron_r_martin@... writes:


                                                                                                              have mostly Livebearers myself, and some fry do get eaten in the
                                                                                                              community tank. However I do sell the fry to a LFS for at least $1
                                                                                                              each. So its in my best intrest to keep as many alive as I resonably
                                                                                                              can.

                                                                                                              Is there no market for the baby convicts?

                                                                                                              Just curious,
                                                                                                              Aaron


                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9725 From: paul helms Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: hi all i am new to(convicts)
                                                                                                              in ca you can usually get some store credit for
                                                                                                              convicts, as they sell for more like 3-4 dollars here.
                                                                                                              --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                              > Convicts are probally the most prolific cichlids.
                                                                                                              > They will have a batch of
                                                                                                              > eggs every 30-45 days with upwards to 200 per batch.
                                                                                                              > The success rate of these
                                                                                                              > eggs are usually around 80-90%.
                                                                                                              > So as you can see someone can easily have upwards
                                                                                                              > of a 1000 fry within a few
                                                                                                              > months.
                                                                                                              > They breed so readily that there is NO market for
                                                                                                              > them that I know of.
                                                                                                              > Distributors sell these little rabbits of the water
                                                                                                              > world for a $.50 /dozen in my
                                                                                                              > area. And the LFS sell then for $.99 each .
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > rob
                                                                                                              > Indiana
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > In a message dated 3/27/2005 2:40:10 AM US Eastern
                                                                                                              > Standard Time,
                                                                                                              > aaron_r_martin@... writes:
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > > have mostly Livebearers myself, and some fry do
                                                                                                              > get eaten in the
                                                                                                              > > community tank. However I do sell the fry to a LFS
                                                                                                              > for at least $1
                                                                                                              > > each. So its in my best intrest to keep as many
                                                                                                              > alive as I resonably
                                                                                                              > > can.
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > Is there no market for the baby convicts?
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > Just curious,
                                                                                                              > > Aaron
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9726 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: hello
                                                                                                              Melissa, No, I haven't been to the livebearer conventions yet,
                                                                                                              although I've been to many other fish conventions. To get in to see
                                                                                                              the fish and to talk with people inside the convention site, you may
                                                                                                              have to pay an admission fee, which I believe is $30 (for the 3
                                                                                                              days), with no single-day breakdown on this; most of these
                                                                                                              conventions work that way. In that case, I presume your daughter
                                                                                                              might be admitted free, but I'm not sure. However, it is advertised
                                                                                                              as "open to the public", but I don't know if they mean for free or
                                                                                                              not. For more information on everything you could call the
                                                                                                              convention chairman -- Richard Serva in Stow, Ohio -- phone - (330) -
                                                                                                              650-4613. If you live close to Indianapolis you could probably drop
                                                                                                              over to the convention and talk with people at the admissions table
                                                                                                              to gain information about the organization. Ray
                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "m senter" <msenter@i...> wrote:
                                                                                                              > Ray,
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Have you ever been to the livebearer convention? I live in indy
                                                                                                              and was
                                                                                                              > thinking about going over to talk to people and see the fish and
                                                                                                              find out
                                                                                                              > about the ala.org to see if i want to join or not. Do they allow
                                                                                                              this and
                                                                                                              > would they allow me to bring my daughter to see the fish?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > melissa


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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9727 From: amerpatrt Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                              Subject: What is this?
                                                                                                              Hello-
                                                                                                              I'm new to this list. My name is Dawn. I have a large fresh water
                                                                                                              tank, all chemistry parameters are normal. There are two Shubunkins,
                                                                                                              3 regular goldfish, a lone tiger barb with swim bladder disease, 5
                                                                                                              small corydoras and 3 mystery snails. I just came in from a long day
                                                                                                              and looked in the tank and there's this clear jelly-like substance
                                                                                                              attached to a sprig of planted hornwart. Inside the clear jelly
                                                                                                              substance are round balls about 1mm in size. The balls appear white,
                                                                                                              not as clear as the jelly.
                                                                                                              Are these eggs from one of the fish? Or the snails? I have no
                                                                                                              idea what genders any of these animals are. I have looked for white
                                                                                                              specs on the gills and I haven't seen any on any of the fish.
                                                                                                              Also, should I remove this stuff to avoid having them hatch
                                                                                                              (especially if they are snails, I do NOT want any more). If they are
                                                                                                              fish eggs, how should i care for them from here on out? Can fish lay
                                                                                                              eggs if they don't have a mate? Might these eggs be unfertilized? I
                                                                                                              thought fish ate their eggs- these are right out in the open and
                                                                                                              nobody is bothering them.
                                                                                                              I'm sorry for all my questions in my very first post to this list-
                                                                                                              but I'm stumped and taken by surprize- I'd really like to know 'who'
                                                                                                              these eggs belong to. I appreciate any responses, public or private,

                                                                                                              ~Dawn (not ready to be an aquatic grandparent)
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9728 From: Melody Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                              Subject: Hello Everyone.
                                                                                                              Hello Everyone, I wanted to say Hi I am new to the group and I wanted
                                                                                                              to wish all a Happy Easter.
                                                                                                              God Bless,
                                                                                                              Melody
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9729 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                              no no they didnt die of age they were all of the same age and the others are fine!
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Nigel

                                                                                                              Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                              how old are your bettas? perhaps they passed away from simply being old.

                                                                                                              Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@...> wrote:
                                                                                                              Hi everyone

                                                                                                              something really strange and peculiar happened in my
                                                                                                              tanks late yesterday! i have 4 betta tanks all filled
                                                                                                              with the same water having all 4 sponge filters and
                                                                                                              same setup evrything the same! now at the beginning
                                                                                                              the fish were great doing all four then this morning i
                                                                                                              found one of the four males dead in it's and even the
                                                                                                              female was dead as well in the same tank! the
                                                                                                              temperature is fine and no toxins fell in the tank or
                                                                                                              the water was toxic becuase the other would have died
                                                                                                              as well! The other interesting thing is that the nest
                                                                                                              is built and fukky intact! The other 3 betta well 2
                                                                                                              have a good very good nest and the other has no
                                                                                                              interest at all (its a blue plakat)
                                                                                                              What do you think? i am out of ideas!

                                                                                                              Nigel

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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9730 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                              There werent any signs of fighting though on neither of them and yes they were breeding
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Nigel

                                                                                                              Aaron <aaron_r_martin@...> wrote:

                                                                                                              Hi Nigel,

                                                                                                              Were the bettas mating?

                                                                                                              I've heard they can beat each other up really bad doing so.

                                                                                                              Are there any eggs in the nest?



                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                              <nigelchetcuti@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                              > Hi everyone
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > something really strange and peculiar happened in my
                                                                                                              > tanks late yesterday! i have 4 betta tanks all filled
                                                                                                              > with the same water having all 4 sponge filters and
                                                                                                              > same setup evrything the same! now at the beginning
                                                                                                              > the fish were great doing all four then this morning i
                                                                                                              > found one of the four males dead in it's and even the
                                                                                                              > female was dead as well in the same tank! the
                                                                                                              > temperature is fine and no toxins fell in the tank or
                                                                                                              > the water was toxic becuase the other would have died
                                                                                                              > as well! The other interesting thing is that the nest
                                                                                                              > is built and fukky intact! The other 3 betta well 2
                                                                                                              > have a good very good nest and the other has no
                                                                                                              > interest at all (its a blue plakat)
                                                                                                              > What do you think? i am out of ideas!
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Nigel
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Send instant messages to your online friends
                                                                                                              http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com





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                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9731 From: harry perry Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: What is this?/To Dawn
                                                                                                              Sounds like snail eggs. Congradulations "Grandmom" your in the snail business.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Harry

                                                                                                              amerpatrt <amerpatrt@...> wrote:


                                                                                                              Hello-
                                                                                                                  I'm new to this list. My name is Dawn. I have a large fresh water
                                                                                                              tank, all chemistry parameters are normal. There are two Shubunkins,
                                                                                                              3 regular goldfish, a lone tiger barb with swim bladder disease, 5
                                                                                                              small corydoras and 3 mystery snails. I just came in from a long day
                                                                                                              and looked in the tank and there's this clear jelly-like substance
                                                                                                              attached to a sprig of planted hornwart. Inside the clear jelly
                                                                                                              substance are round balls about 1mm in size. The balls appear white,
                                                                                                              not as clear as the jelly.   
                                                                                                                  Are these eggs from one of the fish? Or the snails? I have no
                                                                                                              idea what genders any of these animals are. I have looked for white
                                                                                                              specs on the gills and I haven't seen any on any of the fish.
                                                                                                              Also, should I remove this stuff to avoid having them hatch
                                                                                                              (especially if they are snails, I do NOT want any more). If they are
                                                                                                              fish eggs, how should i care for them from here on out? Can fish lay
                                                                                                              eggs if they don't have a mate? Might these eggs be unfertilized? I
                                                                                                              thought fish ate their eggs- these are right out in the open and
                                                                                                              nobody is bothering them.
                                                                                                                 I'm sorry for all my questions in my very first post to this list-
                                                                                                              but I'm stumped and taken by surprize- I'd really like to know 'who'
                                                                                                              these eggs belong to. I appreciate any responses, public or private,

                                                                                                              ~Dawn (not ready to be an aquatic grandparent)





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                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 9732 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                sorry my mistake i think i didnt explain well they were all in separate tanks and i was trying to breed them the ones dead were normal Betta splendens
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Nigel

                                                                                                                Rei - Raymond Tremor <rei_tremor@yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                                                Wait wait wait. It seems like you have them together? You can't put bettas together specially if the space is limited. You can put at least 4 females and a male in a big tank and with lots of hiding places. Plakats are tough and would kill the other bettas cause plakats have tough skin or scales and sharper teeth than the ordinary males (veil, twin, crown, half moon). You can be lucky to have 2 males in a same aquarium without them fighting to the death. They are called Siamese fighting fish cause if you put 2 males in a small space they will fight to the death. The only time you can put a male and female (alone) is when you are breeding and even in breeding expect the female to get hurt even the male will get bitten by the female. The female has to be ready (full belly with eggs), and you have to put them in separate containers but in the same aquarium (example the male in the main aquarium and a container with the female inside and placed inside the main aquarium). They have to be able to see each other but can't touch each other. Also make sure there is a little space on top of the aquarium so there is an air on the top of the aquarium (meaning the water isn't full to the brim).
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Date: 03/26/05 21:31:36
                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Hi everyone

                                                                                                                something really strange and peculiar happened in my
                                                                                                                tanks late yesterday! i have 4 betta tanks all filled
                                                                                                                with the same water having all 4 sponge filters and
                                                                                                                same setup evrything the same! now at the beginning
                                                                                                                the fish were great doing all four then this morning i
                                                                                                                found one of the four males dead in it's and even the
                                                                                                                female was dead as well in the same tank! the
                                                                                                                temperature is fine and no toxins fell in the tank or
                                                                                                                the water was toxic becuase the other would have died
                                                                                                                as well! The other interesting thing is that the nest
                                                                                                                is built and fukky intact! The other 3 betta well 2
                                                                                                                have a good very good nest and the other has no
                                                                                                                interest at all (its a blue plakat)
                                                                                                                What do you think? i am out of ideas!

                                                                                                                Nigel

                                                                                                                Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                 


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                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9733 From: CBlnds8@aol.com Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                Subject: Hi Group I would like some advise
                                                                                                                We have several fish in our 55 gallon tank. One is a small Rainbow Shark And the other is a Iridescent Shark he is my favorite. What I am asking what would be some other fish that would good to add with them. The other 2 are Pleco. Thanks Ken.
                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9734 From: amerpatrt@aol.com Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: What is this?/To Dawn
                                                                                                                In a message dated 3/27/2005 11:28:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, harryfisherman@... writes:
                                                                                                                Sounds like snail eggs. Congradulations "Grandmom" your in the snail business.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Harry
                                                                                                                Nooooooooooooooooooooooo....I don't waaaaaaaaant snails....................... <sigh>
                                                                                                                I though there was some hanky-panky going on, when they were crawling all over each other and riding double. Thanks for the less than exciting news,
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                ~Dawn
                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9735 From: harry perry Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: What is this?/To Dawn/again
                                                                                                                What kind of snails are they?. Perhaps you can barter with your LFS. Some snails don't need a female or male partner to reproduce. Just remember there is no such thing as too many tanks.
                                                                                                                Snails can be your friend. They help keep the tank clean. If you can grow them big enough they taste good in a garlic butter sauce. They can be a source of income, food, they clean your tank and don't get paid, you will eventually have hundreds of them. So, I don't understand the problem.
                                                                                                                                                                 Snail Elimination
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                1 Clown Loaches eat snails
                                                                                                                2 People eat snails(there good)
                                                                                                                3 Crush the small ones against the side of the tank with your finger.
                                                                                                                4 Rubberband a piece of squash etc. to a stone when it gets covered with snails throw it out and start again.
                                                                                                                5 My snails come to the top at night(lights out) scoop them out.
                                                                                                                6 Remove the eggs whenever you see them.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I wouldn't try to eliminate all of them. They have saved my fry tanks many times. Water changes are next to impossible when the fry are soo small they can hardly be seen.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Harry 

                                                                                                                amerpatrt@... wrote:
                                                                                                                In a message dated 3/27/2005 11:28:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, harryfisherman@... writes:
                                                                                                                Sounds like snail eggs. Congradulations "Grandmom" your in the snail business.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Harry
                                                                                                                Nooooooooooooooooooooooo....I don't waaaaaaaaant snails....................... <sigh>
                                                                                                                I though there was some hanky-panky going on, when they were crawling all over each other and riding double. Thanks for the less than exciting news,
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                ~Dawn


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                                                                                                                .
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                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9736 From: Nan Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                Subject: Intro to New Member.....Me!*LOL*
                                                                                                                Hi, Everyone.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I am Nan, I primarily breed Betta Splendas, Guppys and Paradise Fish.  I also have 3 Dojo Weather Loaches, 3 Sailfin plecos (in a different tank for each), 1 Clown Loach, 1Upside Down Catfish, 2 Corys, a bunch of Fancy Guppys,  268 Paradise Fish Fry, 2 Adult Paradise Fish (both females, males decided to migrate and forgot their water, they made the BIG jump thru a small hole!), 8 Adult Betta Males, 5 Adult Betta Females, and alot of Betta Fry, and I also have ramshorn snails and Yellow Mystery snails.    I am always looking for new information and ideas on breeding the better fish (I want healthier, hardier, happier fish, not just all show and flash, but that helps too..*LOL*).  I am not just limited to Bettas, Guppys, and Paradise fish.  I would like to learn about all fish.  I enjoy everything about them, even their upkeep..*LOL*
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I have my own website where I will be posting pictures of my fish, and my tanks.  As of now I just have my introduction, a mistakes page on all the mistakes I made with attempting my first spawns of my bettas, and a spawn log on what I did right.  Also there is a links page on there for various information sites I have found to be helpful!  With permission I will be adding this clubs site onto my page as well.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I look forward to meeting everyone and talking with everyone.   Happy Easter and have a swimmingly wonderful day!
                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                ~nan and crew~
                                                                                                                Rome, GA
                                                                                                                bettas and soon we add guppys!


                                                                                                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9737 From: harry perry Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Intro to New Member.....Me!*LOL*/To Nan
                                                                                                                Are you trying to say you like fishkeeping.? Are you crazy? Me to. You came to the right group. Ask away, someone here can help. Happy Easter to you and yours.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Harry

                                                                                                                Nan <ntalb00@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                Hi, Everyone.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I am Nan, I primarily breed Betta Splendas, Guppys and Paradise Fish.  I also have 3 Dojo Weather Loaches, 3 Sailfin plecos (in a different tank for each), 1 Clown Loach, 1Upside Down Catfish, 2 Corys, a bunch of Fancy Guppys,  268 Paradise Fish Fry, 2 Adult Paradise Fish (both females, males decided to migrate and forgot their water, they made the BIG jump thru a small hole!), 8 Adult Betta Males, 5 Adult Betta Females, and alot of Betta Fry, and I also have ramshorn snails and Yellow Mystery snails.    I am always looking for new information and ideas on breeding the better fish (I want healthier, hardier, happier fish, not just all show and flash, but that helps too..*LOL*).  I am not just limited to Bettas, Guppys, and Paradise fish.  I would like to learn about all fish.  I enjoy everything about them, even their upkeep..*LOL*
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I have my own website where I will be posting pictures of my fish, and my tanks.  As of now I just have my introduction, a mistakes page on all the mistakes I made with attempting my first spawns of my bettas, and a spawn log on what I did right.  Also there is a links page on there for various information sites I have found to be helpful!  With permission I will be adding this clubs site onto my page as well.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I look forward to meeting everyone and talking with everyone.   Happy Easter and have a swimmingly wonderful day!
                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                ~nan and crew~
                                                                                                                Rome, GA
                                                                                                                bettas and soon we add guppys!


                                                                                                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9738 From: amerpatrt@aol.com Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: What is this?/To Dawn/again
                                                                                                                In a message dated 3/27/2005 12:34:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, harryfisherman@... writes:
                                                                                                                What kind of snails are they?. Perhaps you can barter with your LFS. Some snails don't need a female or male partner to reproduce. Just remember there is no such thing as too many tanks.
                                                                                                                Snails can be your friend. They help keep the tank clean. If you can grow them big enough they taste good in a garlic butter sauce. They can be a source of income, food, they clean your tank and don't get paid, you will eventually have hundreds of them. So, I don't understand the problem.
                                                                                                                                                                 Snail Elimination
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                1 Clown Loaches eat snails
                                                                                                                2 People eat snails(there good)
                                                                                                                3 Crush the small ones against the side of the tank with your finger.
                                                                                                                4 Rubberband a piece of squash etc. to a stone when it gets covered with snails throw it out and start again.
                                                                                                                5 My snails come to the top at night(lights out) scoop them out.
                                                                                                                6 Remove the eggs whenever you see them.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I wouldn't try to eliminate all of them. They have saved my fry tanks many times. Water changes are next to impossible when the fry are soo small they can hardly be seen.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Harry 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Thank you Harry
                                                                                                                   Maybe I'll let them hatch then. I could use a little help cleaning the tank. But I assure you- they won't be cooked up for a snack anytime soon
                                                                                                                I'll keep you posted on their 'birth' and development.
                                                                                                                Thanx again,
                                                                                                                Dawn
                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9739 From: Rosaholic Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                Subject: Follow-up questions on CO2...
                                                                                                                Hi everyone, just some quick follow up questions on CO2 for aquariums.
                                                                                                                Ok, I have the CO2 tank and everything hooked up. Everything seems to
                                                                                                                be going well. Right now I have it at about 2 drops per second. The PH
                                                                                                                has dropped from 8.0 to 7.5 in about 2 hours. It is set to turn off at
                                                                                                                7:00 PM tonight. Is there anything else I should be watching for? Do
                                                                                                                you think that's too many drops per second? I'm suppose to go out for a
                                                                                                                few this afternoon. Should I just shut it off, or do you think
                                                                                                                everything will be fine with the timers and all? Just want to make sure
                                                                                                                I don't mess up anything! :)
                                                                                                                --
                                                                                                                Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                Alan
                                                                                                                --
                                                                                                                Chandler, Arizona
                                                                                                                Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                ----
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                                                                                                                whatsdiggin wrote:

                                                                                                                > Hi, my name is Ruth. And I'm new to the group. Just wanted to say Hi
                                                                                                                >to everyone. I'm also new to fish breeding, I'm doing something wrong
                                                                                                                >and I don't know what it is. I'm breeding guppies,the babies are 1
                                                                                                                >month old and one by one the babies are dieing and I don't understand
                                                                                                                >why? The parents are doing great, my 10 gal. tank is divided, parents
                                                                                                                >on one side and babies on the other Can someone please help me with
                                                                                                                >this. Thanks, Have A Great Day!!
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                >.
                                                                                                                >Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9740 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Hello, I'm to to the group.
                                                                                                                Hi Ruth,

                                                                                                                Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                                What are you feeding the fry? Is this your first batch?



                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "whatsdiggin" <whatsdiggin@y...>
                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Hi, my name is Ruth. And I'm new to the group. Just wanted to say
                                                                                                                Hi
                                                                                                                > to everyone. I'm also new to fish breeding, I'm doing something
                                                                                                                wrong
                                                                                                                > and I don't know what it is. I'm breeding guppies,the babies are 1
                                                                                                                > month old and one by one the babies are dieing and I don't
                                                                                                                understand
                                                                                                                > why? The parents are doing great, my 10 gal. tank is divided,
                                                                                                                parents
                                                                                                                > on one side and babies on the other Can someone please help me
                                                                                                                with
                                                                                                                > this. Thanks, Have A Great Day!!
                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9741 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: new 30 gal.- stocking?
                                                                                                                Hi Anne,

                                                                                                                Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                                I've had Bala Sharks. They can get big, mine was about six inches
                                                                                                                before I gave him to a friend with a bigger tank. If I recall
                                                                                                                correctly, he was a fast swimmer and kept to the mid-level and top
                                                                                                                of the tank.
                                                                                                                If you get your shark really small, you can enjoy watching him grow
                                                                                                                before moving to a longer tank.
                                                                                                                Cory cats mostly stay on the bottom, usally at least parially hid -
                                                                                                                except for the occasional 'jump' to the surface . Make sure you
                                                                                                                provide them some hiding places and they should be fine with most
                                                                                                                any fish.
                                                                                                                As for other compatable tank mates, I'd avoid any of the really
                                                                                                                small fish that may eventually fit in the sharks mouth, like neon
                                                                                                                tetras. I would also stick to just the medium size fish that don't
                                                                                                                get more than 2 or 3 inches and are slower swimmers in midlevel of
                                                                                                                the water, that way you canhave more fish with less room.

                                                                                                                Hope that helps,
                                                                                                                Aaron


                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Anne <md_gustoby@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                > I would appreciate some advice on stocking a new 30
                                                                                                                > gal. rect. tank. It will contain a shark, either a red
                                                                                                                > tailed black shark, or a bala (for no more then 1yr.
                                                                                                                > then moved to a larger tank) Everything I've read
                                                                                                                > indicates the bala shark in more peaceful but grows
                                                                                                                > large. Will it outgrow the 30 prior to a year? As far
                                                                                                                > as the black shark, while my reading shows it doesn't
                                                                                                                > grow as large, some articles say to keep 3, other
                                                                                                                > articles say only 1 and that they are aggressive to
                                                                                                                > other fish. While I don't want a 30 occupied by a
                                                                                                                > single fish, neither do I want a massacre. Compatible
                                                                                                                > tank mates?
                                                                                                                > Finally, can either shark be kept (safely) with
                                                                                                                > cories? Thanks
                                                                                                                > Anne
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > __________________________________
                                                                                                                > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                                                > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9742 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Hello Everyone.
                                                                                                                Hi Melody,

                                                                                                                Welcome to the group and thanks for joining.

                                                                                                                Aaron

                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Melody" <kay_baby65@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Hello Everyone, I wanted to say Hi I am new to the group and I
                                                                                                                wanted
                                                                                                                > to wish all a Happy Easter.
                                                                                                                > God Bless,
                                                                                                                > Melody
                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9743 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                Subject: Snails (was - Re: What is this?/To Dawn/again)
                                                                                                                Mmmm, sounds tasty - got a recipe?

                                                                                                                thanks Harry for clearly spelling out what is commonly said, snails
                                                                                                                are good.

                                                                                                                This is a frequent topic. I know I freaked out with my first "snail
                                                                                                                infestation". Now the supply hardly keeps up with the demand, so I
                                                                                                                have a fry tank that is 'snail friendly' to allow them to breed at
                                                                                                                will without any predators.

                                                                                                                Clown loaches are fun to watch, especially in small groups.

                                                                                                                Aaron

                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry
                                                                                                                <harryfisherman@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                > What kind of snails are they?. Perhaps you can barter with your
                                                                                                                LFS. Some snails don't need a female or male partner to reproduce.
                                                                                                                Just remember there is no such thing as too many tanks.
                                                                                                                > Snails can be your friend. They help keep the tank clean. If you
                                                                                                                can grow them big enough they taste good in a garlic butter sauce.
                                                                                                                They can be a source of income, food, they clean your tank and don't
                                                                                                                get paid, you will eventually have hundreds of them. So, I don't
                                                                                                                understand the problem.
                                                                                                                > Snail Elimination
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > 1 Clown Loaches eat snails
                                                                                                                > 2 People eat snails(there good)
                                                                                                                > 3 Crush the small ones against the side of the tank with your
                                                                                                                finger.
                                                                                                                > 4 Rubberband a piece of squash etc. to a stone when it gets
                                                                                                                covered with snails throw it out and start again.
                                                                                                                > 5 My snails come to the top at night(lights out) scoop them out.
                                                                                                                > 6 Remove the eggs whenever you see them.
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > I wouldn't try to eliminate all of them. They have saved my fry
                                                                                                                tanks many times. Water changes are next to impossible when the fry
                                                                                                                are soo small they can hardly be seen.
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Harry
                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9744 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Hi Group I would like some advise
                                                                                                                Hi Ken,

                                                                                                                Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                                Hmm, a shark tank, sounds like a theme. Other kinds of sharks maybe,
                                                                                                                Bala Shark, Red tailed black shark, true SAE's (Siamese Algae Eaters
                                                                                                                are often refered to as Sharks), maybe more than 1 of each if they
                                                                                                                like to swim together?

                                                                                                                How many other kinds of 'sharks' are there?


                                                                                                                Cory cats mostly stay on the bottom, usally at least parially hid -
                                                                                                                except for the occasional 'jump' to the surface . Make sure you
                                                                                                                provide them some hiding places and they should be fine with most
                                                                                                                any fish. They are great scavengers, makes for awesome bottom bottom
                                                                                                                feeders keeping substrate free of excess food as sharks are mostly
                                                                                                                top feeders.

                                                                                                                Hope that helps. Let us know what you decide,

                                                                                                                Aaron


                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, CBlnds8@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                > We have several fish in our 55 gallon tank. One is a small Rainbow
                                                                                                                Shark And
                                                                                                                > the other is a Iridescent Shark he is my favorite. What I am
                                                                                                                asking what
                                                                                                                > would be some other fish that would good to add with them. The
                                                                                                                other 2 are
                                                                                                                > Pleco. Thanks Ken.
                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9745 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: What is this?
                                                                                                                Hi Dawn,

                                                                                                                Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                                "snail eggs"


                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amerpatrt" <amerpatrt@a...>
                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Hello-
                                                                                                                > I'm new to this list. My name is Dawn. I have a large fresh
                                                                                                                water
                                                                                                                > tank, all chemistry parameters are normal. There are two
                                                                                                                Shubunkins,
                                                                                                                > 3 regular goldfish, a lone tiger barb with swim bladder disease, 5
                                                                                                                > small corydoras and 3 mystery snails. I just came in from a long
                                                                                                                day
                                                                                                                > and looked in the tank and there's this clear jelly-like substance
                                                                                                                > attached to a sprig of planted hornwart. Inside the clear jelly
                                                                                                                > substance are round balls about 1mm in size. The balls appear
                                                                                                                white,
                                                                                                                > not as clear as the jelly.
                                                                                                                > Are these eggs from one of the fish? Or the snails? I have no
                                                                                                                > idea what genders any of these animals are. I have looked for
                                                                                                                white
                                                                                                                > specs on the gills and I haven't seen any on any of the fish.
                                                                                                                > Also, should I remove this stuff to avoid having them hatch
                                                                                                                > (especially if they are snails, I do NOT want any more). If they
                                                                                                                are
                                                                                                                > fish eggs, how should i care for them from here on out? Can fish
                                                                                                                lay
                                                                                                                > eggs if they don't have a mate? Might these eggs be unfertilized?
                                                                                                                I
                                                                                                                > thought fish ate their eggs- these are right out in the open and
                                                                                                                > nobody is bothering them.
                                                                                                                > I'm sorry for all my questions in my very first post to this
                                                                                                                list-
                                                                                                                > but I'm stumped and taken by surprize- I'd really like to
                                                                                                                know 'who'
                                                                                                                > these eggs belong to. I appreciate any responses, public or
                                                                                                                private,
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > ~Dawn (not ready to be an aquatic grandparent)
                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9746 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Intro to New Member.....Me!*LOL*
                                                                                                                Hi Nan,

                                                                                                                Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                                ">...268 Paradise Fish Fry"

                                                                                                                that will keep you busy, just counting them every day.

                                                                                                                ">...and alot of Betta Fry"

                                                                                                                what? no count? just kiding - alot describes it just fine, I
                                                                                                                totally understand, I have 'alot' of fry myself. I quit counting 'em
                                                                                                                myself, at least until its time to go the store and sale them.


                                                                                                                ">...With permission I will be adding this clubs site onto my page
                                                                                                                as well."

                                                                                                                Absolutely, please do. Also there is section here in this group for
                                                                                                                you to add links to your site;
                                                                                                                'Members Links: post links to your aquarium related web sites,
                                                                                                                groups, forums, clubs, etc... '

                                                                                                                Thanks for joining,
                                                                                                                Aaron


                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                > Hi, Everyone.
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > I am Nan, I primarily breed Betta Splendas, Guppys and Paradise
                                                                                                                Fish. I also have 3 Dojo Weather Loaches, 3 Sailfin plecos (in a
                                                                                                                different tank for each), 1 Clown Loach, 1Upside Down Catfish, 2
                                                                                                                Corys, a bunch of Fancy Guppys, 268 Paradise Fish Fry, 2 Adult
                                                                                                                Paradise Fish (both females, males decided to migrate and forgot
                                                                                                                their water, they made the BIG jump thru a small hole!), 8 Adult
                                                                                                                Betta Males, 5 Adult Betta Females, and alot of Betta Fry, and I
                                                                                                                also have ramshorn snails and Yellow Mystery snails. I am always
                                                                                                                looking for new information and ideas on breeding the better fish (I
                                                                                                                want healthier, hardier, happier fish, not just all show and flash,
                                                                                                                but that helps too..*LOL*). I am not just limited to Bettas,
                                                                                                                Guppys, and Paradise fish. I would like to learn about all fish. I
                                                                                                                enjoy everything about them, even their upkeep..*LOL*
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > I have my own website where I will be posting pictures of my fish,
                                                                                                                and my tanks. As of now I just have my introduction, a mistakes
                                                                                                                page on all the mistakes I made with attempting my first spawns of
                                                                                                                my bettas, and a spawn log on what I did right. Also there is a
                                                                                                                links page on there for various information sites I have found to be
                                                                                                                helpful! With permission I will be adding this clubs site onto my
                                                                                                                page as well.
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > I look forward to meeting everyone and talking with everyone.
                                                                                                                Happy Easter and have a swimmingly wonderful day!
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > ~nan and crew~
                                                                                                                > Rome, GA
                                                                                                                > http://www.geocities.com/ntalb00/index.htm (updated)
                                                                                                                > bettas and soon we add guppys!
                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9747 From: Ruthie&kritters Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: What is this?
                                                                                                                Dawn let them hatch if they will. the mystery snails will help keep your tank clean and if you don't want them after they grow a little u can send them to me hehehhe they cost about $300 here.
                                                                                                                                          Ruthie
                                                                                                                Godcreatedkritters@...
                                                                                                                lovejoyfer@...
                                                                                                                (under construction)
                                                                                                                http://www.lovejoyswildlife.org
                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9748 From: harry perry Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Snails (was - Re: What is this?/To Dawn/again)
                                                                                                                What does cmt stand for?.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Harry (looking up my recipe now)

                                                                                                                "Aaron R. Martin, cmt" <massagetherapist@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                Mmmm, sounds tasty - got a recipe?

                                                                                                                thanks Harry for clearly spelling out what is commonly said, snails
                                                                                                                are good.

                                                                                                                This is a frequent topic. I know I freaked out with my first "snail
                                                                                                                infestation". Now the supply hardly keeps up with the demand, so I
                                                                                                                have a fry tank that is 'snail friendly' to allow them to breed at
                                                                                                                will without any predators.

                                                                                                                Clown loaches are fun to watch, especially in small groups.

                                                                                                                Aaron

                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry
                                                                                                                <harryfisherman@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                > What kind of snails are they?. Perhaps you can barter with your
                                                                                                                LFS. Some snails don't need a female or male partner to reproduce.
                                                                                                                Just remember there is no such thing as too many tanks.
                                                                                                                > Snails can be your friend. They help keep the tank clean. If you
                                                                                                                can grow them big enough they taste good in a garlic butter sauce.
                                                                                                                They can be a source of income, food, they clean your tank and don't
                                                                                                                get paid, you will eventually have hundreds of them. So, I don't
                                                                                                                understand the problem.
                                                                                                                >                                                  Snail Elimination

                                                                                                                > 1 Clown Loaches eat snails
                                                                                                                > 2 People eat snails(there good)
                                                                                                                > 3 Crush the small ones against the side of the tank with your
                                                                                                                finger.
                                                                                                                > 4 Rubberband a piece of squash etc. to a stone when it gets
                                                                                                                covered with snails throw it out and start again.
                                                                                                                > 5 My snails come to the top at night(lights out) scoop them out.
                                                                                                                > 6 Remove the eggs whenever you see them.

                                                                                                                > I wouldn't try to eliminate all of them. They have saved my fry
                                                                                                                tanks many times. Water changes are next to impossible when the fry
                                                                                                                are soo small they can hardly be seen.

                                                                                                                > Harry





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                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9749 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Digest Number 670
                                                                                                                Mela Fix is the right name. I'm not crazy about Pima Fix, though.
                                                                                                                Tried it in a marine tank and everyone died within minutes even though
                                                                                                                it said saltwater safe. Won't try it in the fresh tank no. The P-F is
                                                                                                                for fungus.

                                                                                                                "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 9750 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                  They were breeding? Did you get them ready for mating? Or have they mated? If they have mated, you should take out the female and let the male tend the nest for about 3 days.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  To get them ready you should put the female in a clear container (small glass or acrylic) and then put the container inside the aquarium. You release the female when she puts her head down when the male comes. That is her way of saying she is ready (submissiveness). You should feed her live food (brine shrimp, blood worm, daphnia, etc.) prior to mating so her eggs will be healthy.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  I had Bettas before and had breeded successfully but not until the 4th try. 1st time, I had gravel on the tank, the male couldn't get most eggs. 2nd I took the parents out early. 3rd the male killed the female even tho she was ready and there were free swimming fry but the next day there were no more, which I think the male ate them. 4th time was successful and I had about 20 fry that survived to adulthood.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  I was tired cleaning containers so I gave them to friends, relatives, and even my doctor for his office. Here in Hawaii, veil tail use to be $1 and crown tail use to be $5.00 and dual tail or twin tail use to be $1.50 and plakats were $2.50. Delta tails and super delta tails were about $15 and up. Half moons were about $25 and up.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  The last time I looked maybe 2 weeks ago, the $1.00 veils were $1.50 already. I have every thing except Half moons.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Date: 03/27/05 09:29:34
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Betta
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  There werent any signs of fighting though on neither of them and yes they were breeding
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Nigel

                                                                                                                  Aaron <aaron_r_martin@hotmail.com> wrote:

                                                                                                                  Hi Nigel,

                                                                                                                  Were the bettas mating?

                                                                                                                  I've heard they can beat each other up really bad doing so.

                                                                                                                  Are there any eggs in the nest?



                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                  <nigelchetcuti@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  > Hi everyone
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > something really strange and peculiar happened in my
                                                                                                                  > tanks late yesterday! i have 4 betta tanks all filled
                                                                                                                  > with the same water having all 4 sponge filters and
                                                                                                                  > same setup evrything the same! now at the beginning
                                                                                                                  > the fish were great doing all four then this morning i
                                                                                                                  > found one of the four males dead in it's and even the
                                                                                                                  > female was dead as well in the same tank! the
                                                                                                                  > temperature is fine and no toxins fell in the tank or
                                                                                                                  > the water was toxic becuase the other would have died
                                                                                                                  > as well! The other interesting thing is that the nest
                                                                                                                  > is built and fukky intact! The other 3 betta well 2
                                                                                                                  > have a good very good nest and the other has no
                                                                                                                  > interest at all (its a blue plakat)
                                                                                                                  > What do you think? i am out of ideas!
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Nigel
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Send instant messages to your online friends
                                                                                                                  http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com





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                                                                                                                  Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9751 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                  Subject: Greater Chicago Cichlid Association, 4/10/2005, 7:00 pm
                                                                                                                  Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                                                                                                                  Greater Chicago Cichlid Association

                                                                                                                  Sunday April 10, 2005
                                                                                                                  7:00 pm - 8:00 pm
                                                                                                                  This event repeats on the second Sunday of every month.
                                                                                                                  The next reminder for this event will be sent in 10 days, 23 hours, 4 minutes.

                                                                                                                  Event Location: http://www.gcca.net/next_meeting.htm
                                                                                                                  Notes:
                                                                                                                  GCCA's Next Meeting
                                                                                                                  Visitors are always welcome! Don't miss our meetings� great fish, equipment and an interesting program!

                                                                                                                  Our next Meeting is April 10, 2005 at 7PM
                                                                                                                  Al Knowles, of the Tampa Bay Aquarium Society, will speak on Central American cichlids.

                                                                                                                  Meeting Info:
                                                                                                                  Holiday Inn
                                                                                                                  Rolling Meadows
                                                                                                                  3405 Algonquin Rd.
                                                                                                                  Rolling Meadows, IL
                                                                                                                  847-259.5000
                                                                                                                  I-290 and IL Rt. 53

                                                                                                                  The Greater Chicago Cichlid Association � GCCA � is a not-for-profit, educational organization, chartered in the state of Illinois, dedicated to the advancement and dissemination of information relating to the bi

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                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 9752 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                    Some bettas live up to 1 year (if bought in stores). Some of the ones they sell are about 1 to 1 1/2 years old when sold. If they are maintained properly they live longer. It depends on the way they are taken cared off too. There are bettas that lives up to 5 yrs or more but rare. They say they live in the rice paddles in Thailand (Siam) and they are brackish fish (salt/fresh water fish), cause they say some rice fields are near salt farms or something.
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    Do you treat your water with conditioner? If not then they might have been poisoned by chemicals (chlorine, ammonia, and other stuff).
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                     Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    Date: 03/27/05 09:28:13
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Betta
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    no no they didnt die of age they were all of the same age and the others are fine!
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    Nigel

                                                                                                                    Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                                                    how old are your bettas? perhaps they passed away from simply being old.

                                                                                                                    Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
                                                                                                                    Hi everyone

                                                                                                                    something really strange and peculiar happened in my
                                                                                                                    tanks late yesterday! i have 4 betta tanks all filled
                                                                                                                    with the same water having all 4 sponge filters and
                                                                                                                    same setup evrything the same! now at the beginning
                                                                                                                    the fish were great doing all four then this morning i
                                                                                                                    found one of the four males dead in it's and even the
                                                                                                                    female was dead as well in the same tank! the
                                                                                                                    temperature is fine and no toxins fell in the tank or
                                                                                                                    the water was toxic becuase the other would have died
                                                                                                                    as well! The other interesting thing is that the nest
                                                                                                                    is built and fukky intact! The other 3 betta well 2
                                                                                                                    have a good very good nest and the other has no
                                                                                                                    interest at all (its a blue plakat)
                                                                                                                    What do you think? i am out of ideas!

                                                                                                                    Nigel

                                                                                                                    Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


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                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 9753 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                      Nigel, how big is your breeding tank? They suggested to me that at least 5 gallon tank is best with lots of live plants and hiding places. The plants will give you fry their first food (micro organisms from the plant). The plant can also be a hiding place for the female when they are done mating.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Date: 03/27/05 09:31:42
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Betta
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      sorry my mistake i think i didnt explain well they were all in separate tanks and i was trying to breed them the ones dead were normal Betta splendens
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Nigel

                                                                                                                      Rei - Raymond Tremor <rei_tremor@yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                                                      Wait wait wait. It seems like you have them together? You can't put bettas together specially if the space is limited. You can put at least 4 females and a male in a big tank and with lots of hiding places. Plakats are tough and would kill the other bettas cause plakats have tough skin or scales and sharper teeth than the ordinary males (veil, twin, crown, half moon). You can be lucky to have 2 males in a same aquarium without them fighting to the death. They are called Siamese fighting fish cause if you put 2 males in a small space they will fight to the death. The only time you can put a male and female (alone) is when you are breeding and even in breeding expect the female to get hurt even the male will get bitten by the female. The female has to be ready (full belly with eggs), and you have to put them in separate containers but in the same aquarium (example the male in the main aquarium and a container with the female inside and placed inside the main aquarium). They have to be able to see each other but can't touch each other. Also make sure there is a little space on top of the aquarium so there is an air on the top of the aquarium (meaning the water isn't full to the brim).
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Date: 03/26/05 21:31:36
                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Hi everyone

                                                                                                                      something really strange and peculiar happened in my
                                                                                                                      tanks late yesterday! i have 4 betta tanks all filled
                                                                                                                      with the same water having all 4 sponge filters and
                                                                                                                      same setup evrything the same! now at the beginning
                                                                                                                      the fish were great doing all four then this morning i
                                                                                                                      found one of the four males dead in it's and even the
                                                                                                                      female was dead as well in the same tank! the
                                                                                                                      temperature is fine and no toxins fell in the tank or
                                                                                                                      the water was toxic becuase the other would have died
                                                                                                                      as well! The other interesting thing is that the nest
                                                                                                                      is built and fukky intact! The other 3 betta well 2
                                                                                                                      have a good very good nest and the other has no
                                                                                                                      interest at all (its a blue plakat)
                                                                                                                      What do you think? i am out of ideas!

                                                                                                                      Nigel

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                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9754 From: Anne Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: new 30 gal.- stocking?
                                                                                                                      Aaron wrote:"Hi Anne,

                                                                                                                      Welcome to the group.I've had Bala Sharks. They can
                                                                                                                      get big, mine was about six inches before I gave him
                                                                                                                      to a friend with a bigger tank...

                                                                                                                      Thank you Aaron. It was between a bala and a red
                                                                                                                      tailed black. I was leaning toward the black (smaller
                                                                                                                      size but it has a terrible rep. for aggression. The
                                                                                                                      bala sounds like a better choice despite its size.
                                                                                                                      Anne




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                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9755 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                      Subject: San Francisco Aquarium Society (SFAS), 4/1/2005, 7:30 pm
                                                                                                                      Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                                      San Francisco Aquarium Society (SFAS)

                                                                                                                      Friday April 1, 2005
                                                                                                                      7:30 pm - 9:30 pm
                                                                                                                      This event repeats on the first Friday of every month.

                                                                                                                      Event Location: first Friday of each month at San Francisco State University
                                                                                                                      Notes:
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                                                                                                                      We meet the first Friday of each month at The San Francisco State University.

                                                                                                                      Founded in 1923, the San Francisco Aquarium Society is regarded as one of the nation's esteemed aquarium hobbyist organizations.

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                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9756 From: paul helms Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Snails (was - Re: What is this?/To Dawn/again)
                                                                                                                      certified massage therapist
                                                                                                                      --- harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      > What does cmt stand for?.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Harry (looking up my recipe now)
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > "Aaron R. Martin, cmt" <massagetherapist@...>
                                                                                                                      > wrote:
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Mmmm, sounds tasty - got a recipe?
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > thanks Harry for clearly spelling out what is
                                                                                                                      > commonly said, snails
                                                                                                                      > are good.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > This is a frequent topic. I know I freaked out with
                                                                                                                      > my first "snail
                                                                                                                      > infestation". Now the supply hardly keeps up with
                                                                                                                      > the demand, so I
                                                                                                                      > have a fry tank that is 'snail friendly' to allow
                                                                                                                      > them to breed at
                                                                                                                      > will without any predators.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Clown loaches are fun to watch, especially in small
                                                                                                                      > groups.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Aaron
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry
                                                                                                                      > <harryfisherman@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      > > What kind of snails are they?. Perhaps you can
                                                                                                                      > barter with your
                                                                                                                      > LFS. Some snails don't need a female or male partner
                                                                                                                      > to reproduce.
                                                                                                                      > Just remember there is no such thing as too many
                                                                                                                      > tanks.
                                                                                                                      > > Snails can be your friend. They help keep the tank
                                                                                                                      > clean. If you
                                                                                                                      > can grow them big enough they taste good in a garlic
                                                                                                                      > butter sauce.
                                                                                                                      > They can be a source of income, food, they clean
                                                                                                                      > your tank and don't
                                                                                                                      > get paid, you will eventually have hundreds of them.
                                                                                                                      > So, I don't
                                                                                                                      > understand the problem.
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > Snail Elimination
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > > 1 Clown Loaches eat snails
                                                                                                                      > > 2 People eat snails(there good)
                                                                                                                      > > 3 Crush the small ones against the side of the
                                                                                                                      > tank with your
                                                                                                                      > finger.
                                                                                                                      > > 4 Rubberband a piece of squash etc. to a stone
                                                                                                                      > when it gets
                                                                                                                      > covered with snails throw it out and start again.
                                                                                                                      > > 5 My snails come to the top at night(lights out)
                                                                                                                      > scoop them out.
                                                                                                                      > > 6 Remove the eggs whenever you see them.
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > > I wouldn't try to eliminate all of them. They have
                                                                                                                      > saved my fry
                                                                                                                      > tanks many times. Water changes are next to
                                                                                                                      > impossible when the fry
                                                                                                                      > are soo small they can hardly be seen.
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > > Harry
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9757 From: paul helms Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: What is this?
                                                                                                                      sounds like larger snail eggs. most of the pest snail
                                                                                                                      eggs are nmuch smaller
                                                                                                                      --- amerpatrt <amerpatrt@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Hello-
                                                                                                                      > I'm new to this list. My name is Dawn. I have a
                                                                                                                      > large fresh water
                                                                                                                      > tank, all chemistry parameters are normal. There are
                                                                                                                      > two Shubunkins,
                                                                                                                      > 3 regular goldfish, a lone tiger barb with swim
                                                                                                                      > bladder disease, 5
                                                                                                                      > small corydoras and 3 mystery snails. I just came in
                                                                                                                      > from a long day
                                                                                                                      > and looked in the tank and there's this clear
                                                                                                                      > jelly-like substance
                                                                                                                      > attached to a sprig of planted hornwart. Inside the
                                                                                                                      > clear jelly
                                                                                                                      > substance are round balls about 1mm in size. The
                                                                                                                      > balls appear white,
                                                                                                                      > not as clear as the jelly.
                                                                                                                      > Are these eggs from one of the fish? Or the
                                                                                                                      > snails? I have no
                                                                                                                      > idea what genders any of these animals are. I have
                                                                                                                      > looked for white
                                                                                                                      > specs on the gills and I haven't seen any on any of
                                                                                                                      > the fish.
                                                                                                                      > Also, should I remove this stuff to avoid having
                                                                                                                      > them hatch
                                                                                                                      > (especially if they are snails, I do NOT want any
                                                                                                                      > more). If they are
                                                                                                                      > fish eggs, how should i care for them from here on
                                                                                                                      > out? Can fish lay
                                                                                                                      > eggs if they don't have a mate? Might these eggs be
                                                                                                                      > unfertilized? I
                                                                                                                      > thought fish ate their eggs- these are right out in
                                                                                                                      > the open and
                                                                                                                      > nobody is bothering them.
                                                                                                                      > I'm sorry for all my questions in my very first
                                                                                                                      > post to this list-
                                                                                                                      > but I'm stumped and taken by surprize- I'd really
                                                                                                                      > like to know 'who'
                                                                                                                      > these eggs belong to. I appreciate any responses,
                                                                                                                      > public or private,
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > ~Dawn (not ready to be an aquatic grandparent)
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >



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                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9758 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                                      "They say they live in the rice paddles in Thailand (Siam) and they are brackish fish (salt/fresh water fish), cause they say some rice fields are near salt farms or something."
                                                                                                                          To clarify this, they are often raised in rice fields, but they come from swamps, creeks, streams, lakes, and ponds.  Those water bodies are used to irrigate rice fields, and rice farmers let the bettas breed in their fields to have some extra income selling them.  I read this in a book about Asian fish farming.
                                                                                                                          Some species of bettas are brackish and marine.  There are even betta species that are found only on certain islands.  b. Splendens (our common bettas) are completely fw because they come from northern to central Thailand in areas that are far inland.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Patrick, who felt like contributing something, even if it was mostly useless information. :)
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                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9759 From: bettamuse Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                                      It's very odd that both fish would die at the same time. It suggests something other than a
                                                                                                                      marital spat.
                                                                                                                      I don't know what your set up is but the breeding pair shouldn't be able to see any other
                                                                                                                      bettas, as the male will spend all his time defending his nest instead of breeding. If there
                                                                                                                      is another male within sight of the female she might take a fancy to him and not the male
                                                                                                                      you have her in with to breed. The breeding male will take a very dim view of her if this
                                                                                                                      happens. Just make sure the female is ready before releasing her into the breeding tank.
                                                                                                                      Don't let this setback stop you trying again. Best of luck
                                                                                                                      At present I have about 200 adult bettas, you get fish dieing from time to time for no
                                                                                                                      apparent reason. Healthy one moment dead the next, it can be very distressing.

                                                                                                                      Cheers
                                                                                                                      BM
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9760 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/27/2005
                                                                                                                      Subject: American Livebearer Association (ALA) Convention, 4/11/2005, 12:00
                                                                                                                      Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                                      American Livebearer Association (ALA) Convention

                                                                                                                      Monday April 11, 2005
                                                                                                                      All Day
                                                                                                                      This event repeats every day, until Monday April 11, 2005.
                                                                                                                      The next reminder for this event will be sent in 8 days, 23 hours, 2 minutes.

                                                                                                                      Event Location: Indianapolis
                                                                                                                      Notes:
                                                                                                                      livebearers.org

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                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 9761 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                        Just as you said my friend the same exactly

                                                                                                                        Nigel

                                                                                                                        --- Rei - Raymond Tremor <rei_tremor@...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        > Nigel, how big is your breeding tank? They suggested
                                                                                                                        > to me that at least 5
                                                                                                                        > gallon tank is best with lots of live plants and
                                                                                                                        > hiding places. The plants
                                                                                                                        > will give you fry their first food (micro organisms
                                                                                                                        > from the plant). The
                                                                                                                        > plant can also be a hiding place for the female when
                                                                                                                        > they are done mating.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                        > LoveMoAko@...
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/raymondtremor/my-bettas.html
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                        > Date: 03/27/05 09:31:42
                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Betta
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > sorry my mistake i think i didnt explain well they
                                                                                                                        > were all in separate
                                                                                                                        > tanks and i was trying to breed them the ones dead
                                                                                                                        > were normal Betta
                                                                                                                        > splendens
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nigel
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Rei - Raymond Tremor <rei_tremor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > Wait wait wait. It seems like you have them
                                                                                                                        > together? You can't put bettas
                                                                                                                        > together specially if the space is limited. You can
                                                                                                                        > put at least 4 females
                                                                                                                        > and a male in a big tank and with lots of hiding
                                                                                                                        > places. Plakats are tough
                                                                                                                        > and would kill the other bettas cause plakats have
                                                                                                                        > tough skin or scales and
                                                                                                                        > sharper teeth than the ordinary males (veil, twin,
                                                                                                                        > crown, half moon). You
                                                                                                                        > can be lucky to have 2 males in a same aquarium
                                                                                                                        > without them fighting to the
                                                                                                                        > death. They are called Siamese fighting fish cause
                                                                                                                        > if you put 2 males in a
                                                                                                                        > small space they will fight to the death. The only
                                                                                                                        > time you can put a male
                                                                                                                        > and female (alone) is when you are breeding and even
                                                                                                                        > in breeding expect the
                                                                                                                        > female to get hurt even the male will get bitten by
                                                                                                                        > the female. The female
                                                                                                                        > has to be ready (full belly with eggs), and you have
                                                                                                                        > to put them in separate
                                                                                                                        > containers but in the same aquarium (example the
                                                                                                                        > male in the main aquarium
                                                                                                                        > and a container with the female inside and placed
                                                                                                                        > inside the main aquarium).
                                                                                                                        > They have to be able to see each other but can't
                                                                                                                        > touch each other. Also make
                                                                                                                        > sure there is a little space on top of the aquarium
                                                                                                                        > so there is an air on
                                                                                                                        > the top of the aquarium (meaning the water isn't
                                                                                                                        > full to the brim).
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                        > LoveMoAko@...
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                        > Date: 03/26/05 21:31:36
                                                                                                                        > To: buzaqq; california betta; tennessee betta fish;
                                                                                                                        > Aquatic life; fish
                                                                                                                        > corner; fish Fancier
                                                                                                                        > Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hi everyone
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > something really strange and peculiar happened in my
                                                                                                                        > tanks late yesterday! i have 4 betta tanks all
                                                                                                                        > filled
                                                                                                                        > with the same water having all 4 sponge filters and
                                                                                                                        > same setup evrything the same! now at the beginning
                                                                                                                        > the fish were great doing all four then this morning
                                                                                                                        > i
                                                                                                                        > found one of the four males dead in it's and even
                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                        > female was dead as well in the same tank! the
                                                                                                                        > temperature is fine and no toxins fell in the tank
                                                                                                                        > or
                                                                                                                        > the water was toxic becuase the other would have
                                                                                                                        > died
                                                                                                                        > as well! The other interesting thing is that the
                                                                                                                        > nest
                                                                                                                        > is built and fukky intact! The other 3 betta well 2
                                                                                                                        > have a good very good nest and the other has no
                                                                                                                        > interest at all (its a blue plakat)
                                                                                                                        > What do you think? i am out of ideas!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nigel
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9762 From: CBlnds8@aol.com Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi Group I would like some advise
                                                                                                                        Thanks first off I guess I should have my name is Ken. We have 3 tanks now two 55 gallon tanks  and one 10 gallon tank. At one time we also had  two 30 gallon tanks up but that was just to much to try to take care of. In the other 55 gallon tank we have the Red Platys   Black Mollies and white Mollies. We also have a Blue Beta who is the happiest little guy I have ever seen. He loves the size of the tank. He is always got his fins out and displays them like the stud he thinks he is. We had Oscars for some time until we lost them. So we decided to go back to something that I like and think is a little easier to take care of. Ken
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9763 From: TC@};- Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Hi I'm Back
                                                                                                                        We Finally got the 75 gal tank set up... amd we placed in the HUGE
                                                                                                                        tank 4 mollies and 2 swordtails.. they look so lost in that tank.. can
                                                                                                                        anyone offer some advice to which other fish do well with what i have
                                                                                                                        already,, Thanks TC
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9764 From: StarWolf Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi I'm Back
                                                                                                                        TC@};- wrote:

                                                                                                                        >We Finally got the 75 gal tank set up... amd we placed in the HUGE
                                                                                                                        >tank 4 mollies and 2 swordtails.. they look so lost in that tank.. can
                                                                                                                        >anyone offer some advice to which other fish do well with what i have
                                                                                                                        >already,, Thanks TC
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        TC,
                                                                                                                        It depends on your fish really. We have 1 molly, 2 sword tails, 2
                                                                                                                        medium sized angels, 2 Platys, 2 unidentified orange fish that came as
                                                                                                                        little babies - we think they may be swordtail, but we are not sure yet,
                                                                                                                        they are juveniles still. When buying our fish, we wen to the pet store
                                                                                                                        and observed the behaviors of all of them before choosing the least
                                                                                                                        aggressive ones and the most healthy ones in our tank. All seem to be
                                                                                                                        very good with each other. I think having a pair of each - one male and
                                                                                                                        one female of each species has helped. We can not seem to keep a male
                                                                                                                        molly though, so we gave up and let our little white molly be a loner,
                                                                                                                        she seems just fine. We have had our tank for almost a year now, and let
                                                                                                                        it settle or commonly called cycle for about 3 months before we added
                                                                                                                        fish, and have had a few deaths, but fish die like everything else in
                                                                                                                        nature, so I was not worried about them being killed off by each other.
                                                                                                                        We don't have any fake plants or rocks. Everything in our tank is
                                                                                                                        natural and I don't check my levels of anything except temperature. I
                                                                                                                        figure if they are all living happily and seem healthy, they are fine.
                                                                                                                        Good luck with your tank.
                                                                                                                        ~Star
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9765 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Happy Easter
                                                                                                                        Happy Easter yall!

                                                                                                                        Hope the Easter Bunny didn't dye your fish and hide them throughout the
                                                                                                                        yard!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9766 From: infomehlb Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Old JetStream Prefecto Super Systems offered by Marineland
                                                                                                                        http://www.marineland.com/advertisements/SuperSystem_AD.pdf

                                                                                                                        I have the opportunity to pick up the above system for $450.00. Any
                                                                                                                        comments/suggestions about the system or components of the system.
                                                                                                                        Thanks
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9767 From: Lauri Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi Group I would like some advise
                                                                                                                        Hi Ken
                                                                                                                        I have an Iridescent Shark (Pangasius) in my 55 - and he
                                                                                                                        is best buddies with the Pictus catfish - they are nearly inseparable.
                                                                                                                        Always swimming together, and hanging out in the same side area of
                                                                                                                        the tank, for the most part. Based on my experience, that would be
                                                                                                                        a good choice.
                                                                                                                        We do have several other fish in this tank, but none of these
                                                                                                                        others interact with the pangasius - but they also don't bother each
                                                                                                                        other at all, either - clown loaches, bala sharks, leporinus, to name a
                                                                                                                        few. All these other fish are in pairs, except for a couple oddballs.

                                                                                                                        I googled Iridescent Shark, and there are a few sites to look at
                                                                                                                        for tank mates. Being that it is a catfish, I would check those out.
                                                                                                                        Hope that helps
                                                                                                                        Lauri
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9768 From: pam phetteplace Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Betta question....re: almond leaf
                                                                                                                        I have read that indian almond leaves are beneficial and enjoyable for bettas.  I have been using them and noticed they tend to make the water look brown and dirty. I know my boy likes to hang out under his, which I change on a weekly basis.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                         Any experience/ opinion  on these leaves would be appreciated.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        happy fishkeeping
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Pam

                                                                                                                        AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

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                                                                                                                        There are 25 messages in this issue.

                                                                                                                        Topics in this digest:

                                                                                                                        1. Snails (was - Re: What is this?/To Dawn/again)
                                                                                                                        From: "Aaron R. Martin, cmt"
                                                                                                                        2. Re: Hi Group I would like some advise
                                                                                                                        From: "Aaron R. Martin, cmt"
                                                                                                                        3. Re: What is this?
                                                                                                                        From: "Aaron R. Martin, cmt"
                                                                                                                        4. Re: Intro to New Member.....Me!*LOL*
                                                                                                                        From: "Aaron R. Martin, cmt"
                                                                                                                        5. Re: Re: What is this?
                                                                                                                        From: "Ruthie&kritters"
                                                                                                                        6. Re: Snails (was - Re: What is this?/To Dawn/again)
                                                                                                                        From: harry perry
                                                                                                                        7. Re: Digest Number 670
                                                                                                                        From: bucks_boogie@...
                                                                                                                        8. Re: Re: Betta
                                                                                                                        From: "Rei - Raymond Tremor"
                                                                                                                        9. Greater Chicago Cichlid Association, 4/10/2005, 7:00 pm
                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        10. Re: Betta
                                                                                                                        From: "Rei - Raymond Tremor"
                                                                                                                        11. Re: Betta
                                                                                                                        From: "Rei - Raymond Tremor"
                                                                                                                        12. Re: Re: new 30 gal.- stocking?
                                                                                                                        From: Anne
                                                                                                                        13. San Francisco Aquarium Society (SFAS), 4/1/2005, 7:30 pm
                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        14. Re: Snails (was - Re: What is this?/To Dawn/again)
                                                                                                                        From: paul helms
                                                                                                                        15. Re: What is this?
                                                                                                                        From: paul helms
                                                                                                                        16. Re: Betta
                                                                                                                        From: "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                        17. Re: Betta
                                                                                                                        From: "bettamuse"
                                                                                                                        18. American Livebearer Association (ALA) Convention, 4/11/2005, 12:00 am
                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        19. Re: Betta
                                                                                                                        From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                        20. Re: Re: Hi Group I would like some advise
                                                                                                                        From: CBlnds8@...
                                                                                                                        21. Hi I'm Back
                                                                                                                        From: "TC@};-"
                                                                                                                        22. Re: Hi I'm Back
                                                                                                                        From: StarWolf
                                                                                                                        23. Happy Easter
                                                                                                                        From: "The Dragon Hunter"
                                                                                                                        24. Old JetStream Prefecto Super Systems offered by Marineland
                                                                                                                        From: "infomehlb"
                                                                                                                        25. Re: Hi Group I would like some advise
                                                                                                                        From: "Lauri"


                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 1
                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 22:02:07 -0000
                                                                                                                        From: "Aaron R. Martin, cmt"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Snails (was - Re: What is this?/To Dawn/again)


                                                                                                                        Mmmm, sounds tasty - got a recipe?

                                                                                                                        thanks Harry for clearly spelling out what is commonly said, snails
                                                                                                                        are good.

                                                                                                                        This is a frequent topic. I know I freaked out with my first "snail
                                                                                                                        infestation". Now the supply hardly keeps up with the demand, so I
                                                                                                                        have a fry tank that is 'snail friendly' to allow them to breed at
                                                                                                                        will without any predators.

                                                                                                                        Clown loaches are fun to watch, especially in small groups.

                                                                                                                        Aaron

                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        > What kind of snails are they?. Perhaps you can barter with your
                                                                                                                        LFS. Some snails don't need a female or male partner to reproduce.
                                                                                                                        Just remember there is no such thing as too many tanks.
                                                                                                                        > Snails can be your friend. They help keep the tank clean. If you
                                                                                                                        can grow them big enough they taste good in a garlic butter sauce.
                                                                                                                        They can be a source of income, food, they clean your tank and don't
                                                                                                                        get paid, you will eventually have hundreds of them. So, I don't
                                                                                                                        understand the problem.
                                                                                                                        > Snail Elimination
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > 1 Clown Loaches eat snails
                                                                                                                        > 2 People eat snails(there good)
                                                                                                                        > 3 Crush the small ones against the side of the tank with your
                                                                                                                        finger.
                                                                                                                        > 4 Rubberband a piece of squash etc. to a stone when it gets
                                                                                                                        covered with snails throw it out and start again.
                                                                                                                        > 5 My snails come to the top at night(lights out) scoop them out.
                                                                                                                        > 6 Remove the eggs whenever you see them.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I wouldn't try to eliminate all of them. They have saved my fry
                                                                                                                        tanks many times. Water changes are next to impossible when the fry
                                                                                                                        are soo small they can hardly be seen.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Harry





                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 2
                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 22:10:30 -0000
                                                                                                                        From: "Aaron R. Martin, cmt"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi Group I would like some advise


                                                                                                                        Hi Ken,

                                                                                                                        Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                                        Hmm, a shark tank, sounds like a theme. Other kinds of sharks maybe,
                                                                                                                        Bala Shark, Red tailed black shark, true SAE's (Siamese Algae Eaters
                                                                                                                        are often refered to as Sharks), maybe more than 1 of each if they
                                                                                                                        like to swim together?

                                                                                                                        How many other kinds of 'sharks' are there?


                                                                                                                        Cory cats mostly stay on the bottom, usally at least parially hid -
                                                                                                                        except for the occasional 'jump' to the surface . Make sure you
                                                                                                                        provide them some hiding places and they should be fine with most
                                                                                                                        any fish. They are great scavengers, makes for awesome bottom bottom
                                                                                                                        feeders keeping substrate free of excess food as sharks are mostly
                                                                                                                        top feeders.

                                                                                                                        Hope that helps. Let us know what you decide,

                                                                                                                        Aaron


                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, CBlnds8@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                        > We have several fish in our 55 gallon tank. One is a small Rainbow
                                                                                                                        Shark And
                                                                                                                        > the other is a Iridescent Shark he is my favorite. What I am
                                                                                                                        asking what
                                                                                                                        > would be some other fish that would good to add with them. The
                                                                                                                        other 2 are
                                                                                                                        > Pleco. Thanks Ken.





                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 3
                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 22:14:28 -0000
                                                                                                                        From: "Aaron R. Martin, cmt"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: What is this?


                                                                                                                        Hi Dawn,

                                                                                                                        Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                                        "snail eggs"


                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amerpatrt"
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hello-
                                                                                                                        > I'm new to this list. My name is Dawn. I have a large fresh
                                                                                                                        water
                                                                                                                        > tank, all chemistry parameters are normal. There are two
                                                                                                                        Shubunkins,
                                                                                                                        > 3 regular goldfish, a lone tiger barb with swim bladder disease, 5
                                                                                                                        > small corydoras and 3 mystery snails. I just came in from a long
                                                                                                                        day
                                                                                                                        > and looked in the tank and there's this clear jelly-like substance
                                                                                                                        > attached to a sprig of planted hornwart. Inside the clear jelly
                                                                                                                        > substance are round balls about 1mm in size. The balls appear
                                                                                                                        white,
                                                                                                                        > not as clear as the jelly.
                                                                                                                        > Are these eggs from one of the fish? Or the snails? I have no
                                                                                                                        > idea what genders any of these animals are. I have looked for
                                                                                                                        white
                                                                                                                        > specs on the gills and I haven't seen any on any of the fish.
                                                                                                                        > Also, should I remove this stuff to avoid having them hatch
                                                                                                                        > (especially if they are snails, I do NOT want any more). If they
                                                                                                                        are
                                                                                                                        > fish eggs, how should i care for them from here on out? Can fish
                                                                                                                        lay
                                                                                                                        > eggs if they don't have a mate? Might these eggs be unfertilized?
                                                                                                                        I
                                                                                                                        > thought fish ate their eggs- these are right out in the open and
                                                                                                                        > nobody is bothering them.
                                                                                                                        > I'm sorry for all my questions in my very first post to this
                                                                                                                        list-
                                                                                                                        > but I'm stumped and taken by surprize- I'd really like to
                                                                                                                        know 'who'
                                                                                                                        > these eggs belong to. I appreciate any responses, public or
                                                                                                                        private,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > ~Dawn (not ready to be an aquatic grandparent)





                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 4
                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 22:23:18 -0000
                                                                                                                        From: "Aaron R. Martin, cmt"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Intro to New Member.....Me!*LOL*


                                                                                                                        Hi Nan,

                                                                                                                        Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                                        ">...268 Paradise Fish Fry"

                                                                                                                        that will keep you busy, just counting them every day.

                                                                                                                        ">...and alot of Betta Fry"

                                                                                                                        what? no count? just kiding - alot describes it just fine, I
                                                                                                                        totally understand, I have 'alot' of fry myself. I quit counting 'em
                                                                                                                        myself, at least until its time to go the store and sale them.


                                                                                                                        ">...With permission I will be adding this clubs site onto my page
                                                                                                                        as well."

                                                                                                                        Absolutely, please do. Also there is section here in this group for
                                                                                                                        you to add links to your site;
                                                                                                                        'Members Links: post links to your aquarium related web sites,
                                                                                                                        groups, forums, clubs, etc... '

                                                                                                                        Thanks for joining,
                                                                                                                        Aaron


                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan wrote:
                                                                                                                        > Hi, Everyone.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I am Nan, I primarily breed Betta Splendas, Guppys and Paradise
                                                                                                                        Fish. I also have 3 Dojo Weather Loaches, 3 Sailfin plecos (in a
                                                                                                                        different tank for each), 1 Clown Loach, 1Upside Down Catfish, 2
                                                                                                                        Corys, a bunch of Fancy Guppys, 268 Paradise Fish Fry, 2 Adult
                                                                                                                        Paradise Fish (both females, males decided to migrate and forgot
                                                                                                                        their water, they made the BIG jump thru a small hole!), 8 Adult
                                                                                                                        Betta Males, 5 Adult Betta Females, and alot of Betta Fry, and I
                                                                                                                        also have ramshorn snails and Yellow Mystery snails. I am always
                                                                                                                        looking for new information and ideas on breeding the better fish (I
                                                                                                                        want healthier, hardier, happier fish, not just all show and flash,
                                                                                                                        but that helps too..*LOL*). I am not just limited to Bettas,
                                                                                                                        Guppys, and Paradise fish. I would like to learn about all fish. I
                                                                                                                        enjoy everything about them, even their upkeep..*LOL*
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I have my own website where I will be posting pictures of my fish,
                                                                                                                        and my tanks. As of now I just have my introduction, a mistakes
                                                                                                                        page on all the mistakes I made with attempting my first spawns of
                                                                                                                        my bettas, and a spawn log on what I did right. Also there is a
                                                                                                                        links page on there for various information sites I have found to be
                                                                                                                        helpful! With permission I will be adding this clubs site onto my
                                                                                                                        page as well.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I look forward to meeting everyone and talking with everyone.
                                                                                                                        Happy Easter and have a swimmingly wonderful day!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > ~nan and crew~
                                                                                                                        > Rome, GA
                                                                                                                        > http://www.geocities.com/ntalb00/index.htm (updated)
                                                                                                                        > bettas and soon we add guppys!





                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 5
                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 17:30:05 -0500
                                                                                                                        From: "Ruthie&kritters"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re: What is this?

                                                                                                                        Dawn let them hatch if they will. the mystery snails will help keep your tank clean and if you don't want them after they grow a little u can send them to me hehehhe they cost about $300 here.
                                                                                                                        Ruthie
                                                                                                                        Godcreatedkritters@...
                                                                                                                        lovejoyfer@...
                                                                                                                        (under construction)
                                                                                                                        http://www.lovejoyswildlife.org


                                                                                                                        [This message contained attachments]



                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 6
                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 15:27:14 -0800 (PST)
                                                                                                                        From: harry perry
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Snails (was - Re: What is this?/To Dawn/again)

                                                                                                                        What does cmt stand for?.

                                                                                                                        Harry (looking up my recipe now)

                                                                                                                        "Aaron R. Martin, cmt" wrote:

                                                                                                                        Mmmm, sounds tasty - got a recipe?

                                                                                                                        thanks Harry for clearly spelling out what is commonly said, snails
                                                                                                                        are good.

                                                                                                                        This is a frequent topic. I know I freaked out with my first "snail
                                                                                                                        infestation". Now the supply hardly keeps up with the demand, so I
                                                                                                                        have a fry tank that is 'snail friendly' to allow them to breed at
                                                                                                                        will without any predators.

                                                                                                                        Clown loaches are fun to watch, especially in small groups.

                                                                                                                        Aaron

                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        > What kind of snails are they?. Perhaps you can barter with your
                                                                                                                        LFS. Some snails don't need a female or male partner to reproduce.
                                                                                                                        Just remember there is no such thing as too many tanks.
                                                                                                                        > Snails can be your friend. They help keep the tank clean. If you
                                                                                                                        can grow them big enough they taste good in a garlic butter sauce.
                                                                                                                        They can be a source of income, food, they clean your tank and don't
                                                                                                                        get paid, you will eventually have hundreds of them. So, I don't
                                                                                                                        understand the problem.
                                                                                                                        > Snail Elimination
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > 1 Clown Loaches eat snails
                                                                                                                        > 2 People eat snails(there good)
                                                                                                                        > 3 Crush the small ones against the side of the tank with your
                                                                                                                        finger.
                                                                                                                        > 4 Rubberband a piece of squash etc. to a stone when it gets
                                                                                                                        covered with snails throw it out and start again.
                                                                                                                        > 5 My snails come to the top at night(lights out) scoop them out.
                                                                                                                        > 6 Remove the eggs whenever you see them.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I wouldn't try to eliminate all of them. They have saved my fry
                                                                                                                        tanks many times. Water changes are next to impossible when the fry
                                                                                                                        are soo small they can hardly be seen.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Harry





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


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                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 7
                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 18:29:17 -0500
                                                                                                                        From: bucks_boogie@...
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 670

                                                                                                                        Mela Fix is the right name. I'm not crazy about Pima Fix, though.
                                                                                                                        Tried it in a marine tank and everyone died within minutes even though
                                                                                                                        it said saltwater safe. Won't try it in the fresh tank no. The P-F is
                                                                                                                        for fungus.

                                                                                                                        "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"



                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 8
                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 16:30:37 -1000
                                                                                                                        From: "Rei - Raymond Tremor"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re: Betta

                                                                                                                        They were breeding? Did you get them ready for mating? Or have they mated?
                                                                                                                        If they have mated, you should take out the female and let the male tend the
                                                                                                                        nest for about 3 days.

                                                                                                                        To get them ready you should put the female in a clear container (small
                                                                                                                        glass or acrylic) and then put the container inside the aquarium. You
                                                                                                                        release the female when she puts her head down when the male comes. That is
                                                                                                                        her way of saying she is ready (submissiveness). You should feed her live
                                                                                                                        food (brine shrimp, blood worm, daphnia, etc.) prior to mating so her eggs
                                                                                                                        will be healthy.

                                                                                                                        I had Bettas before and had breeded successfully but not until the 4th try.
                                                                                                                        1st time, I had gravel on the tank, the male couldn't get most eggs. 2nd I
                                                                                                                        took the parents out early. 3rd the male killed the female even tho she was
                                                                                                                        ready and there were free swimming fry but the next day there were no more,
                                                                                                                        which I think the male ate them. 4th time was successful and I had about 20
                                                                                                                        fry that survived to adulthood.

                                                                                                                        I was tired cleaning containers so I gave them to friends, relatives, and
                                                                                                                        even my doctor for his office. Here in Hawaii, veil tail use to be $1 and
                                                                                                                        crown tail use to be $5.00 and dual tail or twin tail use to be $1.50 and
                                                                                                                        plakats were $2.50. Delta tails and super delta tails were about $15 and up.
                                                                                                                        Half moons were about $25 and up.

                                                                                                                        The last time I looked maybe 2 weeks ago, the $1.00 veils were $1.50 already
                                                                                                                        I have every thing except Half moons.

                                                                                                                        Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                        LoveMoAko@...

                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                        From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                        Date: 03/27/05 09:29:34
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Betta

                                                                                                                        There werent any signs of fighting though on neither of them and yes they
                                                                                                                        were breeding

                                                                                                                        Nigel

                                                                                                                        Aaron wrote:

                                                                                                                        Hi Nigel,

                                                                                                                        Were the bettas mating?

                                                                                                                        I've heard they can beat each other up really bad doing so.

                                                                                                                        Are there any eggs in the nest?



                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        > Hi everyone
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > something really strange and peculiar happened in my
                                                                                                                        > tanks late yesterday! i have 4 betta tanks all filled
                                                                                                                        > with the same water having all 4 sponge filters and
                                                                                                                        > same setup evrything the same! now at the beginning
                                                                                                                        > the fish were great doing all four then this morning i
                                                                                                                        > found one of the four males dead in it's and even the
                                                                                                                        > female was dead as well in the same tank! the
                                                                                                                        > temperature is fine and no toxins fell in the tank or
                                                                                                                        > the water was toxic becuase the other would have died
                                                                                                                        > as well! The other interesting thing is that the nest
                                                                                                                        > is built and fukky intact! The other 3 betta well 2
                                                                                                                        > have a good very good nest and the other has no
                                                                                                                        > interest at all (its a blue plakat)
                                                                                                                        > What do you think? i am out of ideas!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nigel
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Send instant messages to your online friends
                                                                                                                        http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
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                                                                                                                        the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                        subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                        in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                        Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        ..
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                        the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                        subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                        in Advance for your help in this matter


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                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 9
                                                                                                                        Date: 28 Mar 2005 02:55:55 -0000
                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        Subject: Greater Chicago Cichlid Association, 4/10/2005, 7:00 pm

                                                                                                                        Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/cal

                                                                                                                        Greater Chicago Cichlid Association
                                                                                                                        Sunday April 10, 2005
                                                                                                                        7:00 pm - 8:00 pm
                                                                                                                        (This event repeats on the second Sunday of every month.)
                                                                                                                        (The next reminder for this event will be sent in 10 days, 23 hours, 4 minutes.)
                                                                                                                        Event Location: http://www.gcca.net/next_meeting.htm

                                                                                                                        Notes:
                                                                                                                        GCCA's Next Meeting
                                                                                                                        Visitors are always welcome! Don't miss our meetings� great fish, equipment and an interesting program!

                                                                                                                        Our next Meeting is April 10, 2005 at 7PM
                                                                                                                        Al Knowles, of the Tampa Bay Aquarium Society, will speak on Central American cichlids.

                                                                                                                        Meeting Info:
                                                                                                                        Holiday Inn
                                                                                                                        Rolling Meadows
                                                                                                                        3405 Algonquin Rd.
                                                                                                                        Rolling Meadows, IL
                                                                                                                        847-259.5000
                                                                                                                        I-290 and IL Rt. 53

                                                                                                                        The Greater Chicago Cichlid Association � GCCA � is a not-for-profit, educational organization, chartered in the state of Illinois, dedicated to the advancement and dissemination of information relating to the bi


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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9769 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Old JetStream Prefecto Super Systems offered by Marineland
                                                                                                                        Hey, if you want it, but...

                                                                                                                        Used 75 gallon tank with stand $125 (eBay, Craigslist, local paper)
                                                                                                                        Drilling at your LFS $50 or do it yourself for $20 (cost of bit)
                                                                                                                        Drain and return plumbing $25

                                                                                                                        Used Tidepool or wet/dry $75
                                                                                                                        600 GPH Pump $50 (eBay)

                                                                                                                        Used light strip $30
                                                                                                                        Heater $25

                                                                                                                        Cost $350-ish




                                                                                                                        infomehlb said:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > http://www.marineland.com/advertisements/SuperSystem_AD.pdf
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I have the opportunity to pick up the above system for $450.00. Any
                                                                                                                        > comments/suggestions about the system or components of the system.
                                                                                                                        > Thanks
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9770 From: CBlnds8@aol.com Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi Group I would like some advise
                                                                                                                        Thanks for all you help. We are going out to today to get a few new fish.
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9771 From: infomehlb Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Old JetStream Prefecto Super Systems offered by Marineland
                                                                                                                        Thanks for the reply. I forgot to mention this whole setup is new in
                                                                                                                        the box.

                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Hansen" <yahoo1@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > Hey, if you want it, but...
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Used 75 gallon tank with stand $125 (eBay, Craigslist, local paper)
                                                                                                                        > Drilling at your LFS $50 or do it yourself for $20 (cost of bit)
                                                                                                                        > Drain and return plumbing $25
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Used Tidepool or wet/dry $75
                                                                                                                        > 600 GPH Pump $50 (eBay)
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Used light strip $30
                                                                                                                        > Heater $25
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Cost $350-ish
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > infomehlb said:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > http://www.marineland.com/advertisements/SuperSystem_AD.pdf
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > I have the opportunity to pick up the above system for $450.00.
                                                                                                                        Any
                                                                                                                        > > comments/suggestions about the system or components of the system.
                                                                                                                        > > Thanks
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9772 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Old JetStream Prefecto Super Systems offered by Marineland
                                                                                                                        Whether new is important is up to you, but you can change 75 gallon to 125
                                                                                                                        gallon by adding about $75 more...

                                                                                                                        (or any other size you desire just for the difference in price of the tank.)




                                                                                                                        infomehlb said:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Thanks for the reply. I forgot to mention this whole setup is new in
                                                                                                                        > the box.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Hansen" <yahoo1@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >> Hey, if you want it, but...
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> Used 75 gallon tank with stand $125 (eBay, Craigslist, local paper)
                                                                                                                        >> Drilling at your LFS $50 or do it yourself for $20 (cost of bit)
                                                                                                                        >> Drain and return plumbing $25
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> Used Tidepool or wet/dry $75
                                                                                                                        >> 600 GPH Pump $50 (eBay)
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> Used light strip $30
                                                                                                                        >> Heater $25
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> Cost $350-ish
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> infomehlb said:
                                                                                                                        >> >
                                                                                                                        >> >
                                                                                                                        >> > http://www.marineland.com/advertisements/SuperSystem_AD.pdf
                                                                                                                        >> >
                                                                                                                        >> > I have the opportunity to pick up the above system for $450.00.
                                                                                                                        > Any
                                                                                                                        >> > comments/suggestions about the system or components of the system.
                                                                                                                        >> > Thanks
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9773 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                                        has anyone ever seen a marine betta? i saw one the other day and it doesn't look much like the b.
                                                                                                                        splendens most of us see in fish stores/pet stores. for one thing, they get much bigger, and on
                                                                                                                        the one i saw, it didn't have long, flowing fins. of course it may have been a female so that
                                                                                                                        might explain the absence of the long fins.

                                                                                                                        --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        > "They say they live in the rice paddles in Thailand (Siam) and they are
                                                                                                                        > brackish fish (salt/fresh water fish), cause they say some rice fields are
                                                                                                                        > near salt farms or something."
                                                                                                                        > To clarify this, they are often raised in rice fields, but they come
                                                                                                                        > from swamps, creeks, streams, lakes, and ponds. Those water bodies are used
                                                                                                                        > to irrigate rice fields, and rice farmers let the bettas breed in their
                                                                                                                        > fields to have some extra income selling them. I read this in a book about
                                                                                                                        > Asian fish farming.
                                                                                                                        > Some species of bettas are brackish and marine. There are even betta
                                                                                                                        > species that are found only on certain islands. b. Splendens (our common
                                                                                                                        > bettas) are completely fw because they come from northern to central
                                                                                                                        > Thailand in areas that are far inland.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Patrick, who felt like contributing something, even if it was mostly useless information. :)


                                                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9774 From: Ron Hansen Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                                        A Marine Beta (aka Comet) has absolutely nothing in common with a
                                                                                                                        freshwater Beta (aka Siamese Fighting Fish), except the name "Beta".

                                                                                                                        It's kind of like a Sea Cow (aka Manatee) vs. a Cow (aka "hamburger on the
                                                                                                                        hoof").




                                                                                                                        Valeen Gonzalez said:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > has anyone ever seen a marine betta? i saw one the other day and it
                                                                                                                        > doesn't look much like the b.
                                                                                                                        > splendens most of us see in fish stores/pet stores. for one thing, they
                                                                                                                        > get much bigger, and on
                                                                                                                        > the one i saw, it didn't have long, flowing fins. of course it may have
                                                                                                                        > been a female so that
                                                                                                                        > might explain the absence of the long fins.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >> "They say they live in the rice paddles in Thailand (Siam) and they are
                                                                                                                        >> brackish fish (salt/fresh water fish), cause they say some rice fields
                                                                                                                        >> are
                                                                                                                        >> near salt farms or something."
                                                                                                                        >> To clarify this, they are often raised in rice fields, but they come
                                                                                                                        >> from swamps, creeks, streams, lakes, and ponds. Those water bodies are
                                                                                                                        >> used
                                                                                                                        >> to irrigate rice fields, and rice farmers let the bettas breed in their
                                                                                                                        >> fields to have some extra income selling them. I read this in a book
                                                                                                                        >> about
                                                                                                                        >> Asian fish farming.
                                                                                                                        >> Some species of bettas are brackish and marine. There are even
                                                                                                                        >> betta
                                                                                                                        >> species that are found only on certain islands. b. Splendens (our
                                                                                                                        >> common
                                                                                                                        >> bettas) are completely fw because they come from northern to central
                                                                                                                        >> Thailand in areas that are far inland.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> Patrick, who felt like contributing something, even if it was mostly
                                                                                                                        >> useless information. :)
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9775 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Melanochromis Dialeptos
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        I have identified my African cichlid as a melanochromis dialeptos and would appreciate any information as to other fish to add to the tank.  It's a 29 gallon tank, but I'd like at least one or two more fish, if that's possible!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9776 From: bettamuse Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Betta question....re: almond leaf
                                                                                                                        Hi Pam,
                                                                                                                        I've used Indian almond leaf extract ( ketapang ) i think is its
                                                                                                                        other name. Where I live in Brisbane we have very hard water and it
                                                                                                                        is great to bring the PH down. As you have said it makes the water
                                                                                                                        go brown, this is just the tannins in the leaves. But the fish don't
                                                                                                                        mind at all. One thing I have noticed in almost 100% of males the
                                                                                                                        extract is used on build the most impressive looking nests, even
                                                                                                                        ones that were not building nests before the extract was put in.

                                                                                                                        Cheers
                                                                                                                        BM

                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam phetteplace
                                                                                                                        <pamphetteplace@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > I have read that indian almond leaves are beneficial and enjoyable
                                                                                                                        for bettas. I have been using them and noticed they tend to make
                                                                                                                        the water look brown and dirty. I know my boy likes to hang out
                                                                                                                        under his, which I change on a weekly basis.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Any experience/ opinion on these leaves would be appreciated.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > happy fishkeeping
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Pam
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9777 From: Rachel Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: betta tail biting?!?!
                                                                                                                        one of my beloved bettas was flashin around and it got my attention.
                                                                                                                        turns out he was going in circles... eating his tail. um. yeah. and
                                                                                                                        one of my other bettas actually jumped up in his container when i let
                                                                                                                        my boyfriend feed him. and he was freaked out. but yeah i am very
                                                                                                                        worried... when i can i plan on putting up pictures of my fish of
                                                                                                                        course, some before and after of the one with the tail eating problem.
                                                                                                                        i feed all my fish every single day. and they enjoy it. oh and also my
                                                                                                                        butterly betta flares at dr pepper. its so cute.

                                                                                                                        but can someone please help me...? with the tail biting... he lives a
                                                                                                                        stress free life (i think) he is not placed next to any other bettas.

                                                                                                                        thanks much.
                                                                                                                        Rachel
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9778 From: Rachel Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: introducing myself ( rachel )
                                                                                                                        the plants are gold ribbons i think... I had them for a month or 2,
                                                                                                                        and they looked great.
                                                                                                                        the algae looks bright green... and dull green, in different spots.
                                                                                                                        all my fish are acting crazy. must be the weather.

                                                                                                                        thanks, pictures goin up soon. today maybe. i dont want to put how
                                                                                                                        my 5.5 gal tank is now... with the algae taking over, but i will
                                                                                                                        take a picture of my newest plant that sprouted from a bulb.

                                                                                                                        Rachel
                                                                                                                        and i only say "like" when im flustered.

                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, FortWayneFish@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                        > and like...welcome to the group rachel.
                                                                                                                        > I agree timers are very very handy.
                                                                                                                        > Some algae is good for a tank, but can become unsightly.
                                                                                                                        > No help on my end with goldfish sorry as i have no experience with
                                                                                                                        them
                                                                                                                        > beyond winning on at a carnival once.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > rob
                                                                                                                        > NE Indiana
                                                                                                                        > USA
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > > Timers for the light are very helpful, cost about $7. Leave the
                                                                                                                        > > light on up to 12 hours a day for the plants.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > How long did you have the plants before they started to
                                                                                                                        turn "yellow
                                                                                                                        > > and like... dying..."?
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9779 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                                            To clarify, when I said there are some betta species that live in salt water, I didn't mean the "marine betta".  As was said, they are completely different.  I can't find the website that was about bettas that lived on the coast, but there are Mahachai bettas that are brackish. 
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Patrick
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                        has anyone ever seen a marine betta? i saw one the other day and it doesn't look much like the b.
                                                                                                                        splendens most of us see in fish stores/pet stores. for one thing, they get much bigger, and on
                                                                                                                        the one i saw, it didn't have long, flowing fins. of course it may have been a female so that
                                                                                                                        might explain the absence of the long fins.
                                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9780 From: Nan Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Intro to New Member.....Me!*LOL*
                                                                                                                        Thank you Aaron and Harry. I appreciate the warm welcome.

                                                                                                                        Let me clarify the count of the Paradise Fish..*wry chuckle* I took a
                                                                                                                        pair from my friend because she unexpectedly had one pair in the
                                                                                                                        tank spawn. And I was houseing another pair for a friend who was out
                                                                                                                        of town. All of a sudden they just started spawning like crazy, and
                                                                                                                        they spawn 1 time in one 10 gallon, so I moved them...and then they
                                                                                                                        did it again in about a weeks time...so I left the fry, moved the
                                                                                                                        parents AGAIN..*LOL* and nicknamed them the Water Rabbits. Needless
                                                                                                                        to say this weekend was clean the tanks and set up for a new spawn
                                                                                                                        day, and I had to catch everyone of those little monsters to move
                                                                                                                        them. Thats why I have the exact count. My Bettas are a little
                                                                                                                        better behaved and I keep them seperated, but the "Water
                                                                                                                        Rabbits"...well, if the Fathers didn't make a mad dash they were
                                                                                                                        going to the 35 gallon and the Moms were going to stay in the 10..my
                                                                                                                        advice to anyone who has them....Keep them apart, or keep an
                                                                                                                        airstone/filter going to keep the water somewhat
                                                                                                                        choppy..*LOL*....otherwise you will get a big surprise with the next
                                                                                                                        storm that comes thru..*LOL*

                                                                                                                        And yep, Fishkeeping is my obsession..*LOL* Pity my poor family that
                                                                                                                        get to deal with them..*LOL*

                                                                                                                        Nan (and Crew!)
                                                                                                                        Rome, Georgia USA

                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R. Martin, cmt"
                                                                                                                        <massagetherapist@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hi Nan,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Welcome to the group.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > ">...268 Paradise Fish Fry"
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > that will keep you busy, just counting them every day.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > ">...and alot of Betta Fry"
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > what? no count? just kiding - alot describes it just fine, I
                                                                                                                        > totally understand, I have 'alot' of fry myself. I quit
                                                                                                                        counting 'em
                                                                                                                        > myself, at least until its time to go the store and sale them.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > ">...With permission I will be adding this clubs site onto my page
                                                                                                                        > as well."
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Absolutely, please do. Also there is section here in this group for
                                                                                                                        > you to add links to your site;
                                                                                                                        > 'Members Links: post links to your aquarium related web sites,
                                                                                                                        > groups, forums, clubs, etc... '
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Thanks for joining,
                                                                                                                        > Aaron
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > > Hi, Everyone.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > I am Nan, I primarily breed Betta Splendas, Guppys and Paradise
                                                                                                                        > Fish. I also have 3 Dojo Weather Loaches, 3 Sailfin plecos (in a
                                                                                                                        > different tank for each), 1 Clown Loach, 1Upside Down Catfish, 2
                                                                                                                        > Corys, a bunch of Fancy Guppys, 268 Paradise Fish Fry, 2 Adult
                                                                                                                        > Paradise Fish (both females, males decided to migrate and forgot
                                                                                                                        > their water, they made the BIG jump thru a small hole!), 8 Adult
                                                                                                                        > Betta Males, 5 Adult Betta Females, and alot of Betta Fry, and I
                                                                                                                        > also have ramshorn snails and Yellow Mystery snails. I am always
                                                                                                                        > looking for new information and ideas on breeding the better fish
                                                                                                                        (I
                                                                                                                        > want healthier, hardier, happier fish, not just all show and flash,
                                                                                                                        > but that helps too..*LOL*). I am not just limited to Bettas,
                                                                                                                        > Guppys, and Paradise fish. I would like to learn about all fish.
                                                                                                                        I
                                                                                                                        > enjoy everything about them, even their upkeep..*LOL*
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > I have my own website where I will be posting pictures of my
                                                                                                                        fish,
                                                                                                                        > and my tanks. As of now I just have my introduction, a mistakes
                                                                                                                        > page on all the mistakes I made with attempting my first spawns of
                                                                                                                        > my bettas, and a spawn log on what I did right. Also there is a
                                                                                                                        > links page on there for various information sites I have found to
                                                                                                                        be
                                                                                                                        > helpful! With permission I will be adding this clubs site onto my
                                                                                                                        > page as well.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > I look forward to meeting everyone and talking with everyone.
                                                                                                                        > Happy Easter and have a swimmingly wonderful day!
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > ~nan and crew~
                                                                                                                        > > Rome, GA
                                                                                                                        > > http://www.geocities.com/ntalb00/index.htm (updated)
                                                                                                                        > > bettas and soon we add guppys!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9781 From: Nan Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                                        Nigel,

                                                                                                                        First, specify. How big are your tanks? Was it well planted? Did
                                                                                                                        you give them places to hide such as a cave? Is this your first
                                                                                                                        attempt at a spawn of a pair? Did you orginally have them seperated
                                                                                                                        but could still see each other for a few days (I give mine at least a
                                                                                                                        week, by that time he stops flareing at her so much and she
                                                                                                                        has "striped up" and is ready, but sometimes it take 2 weeks)? What
                                                                                                                        did you treat the water with? We are going to need some details on
                                                                                                                        what you did before this all happened with them so we can get a
                                                                                                                        better picture of what was going on. I will be looking forward to
                                                                                                                        hearing your reply.

                                                                                                                        Nan and Crew
                                                                                                                        Rome, GA USA

                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rei - Raymond Tremor"
                                                                                                                        <rei_tremor@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > Some bettas live up to 1 year (if bought in stores). Some of the
                                                                                                                        ones they
                                                                                                                        > sell are about 1 to 1 1/2 years old when sold. If they are
                                                                                                                        maintained
                                                                                                                        > properly they live longer. It depends on the way they are taken
                                                                                                                        cared off
                                                                                                                        > too. There are bettas that lives up to 5 yrs or more but rare. They
                                                                                                                        say they
                                                                                                                        > live in the rice paddles in Thailand (Siam) and they are brackish
                                                                                                                        fish
                                                                                                                        > (salt/fresh water fish), cause they say some rice fields are near
                                                                                                                        salt farms
                                                                                                                        > or something.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Do you treat your water with conditioner? If not then they might
                                                                                                                        have been
                                                                                                                        > poisoned by chemicals (chlorine, ammonia, and other stuff).
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                        > LoveMoAko@H...
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                        > Date: 03/27/05 09:28:13
                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Betta
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > no no they didnt die of age they were all of the same age and the
                                                                                                                        others are
                                                                                                                        > fine!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nigel
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > how old are your bettas? perhaps they passed away from simply being
                                                                                                                        old.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > Hi everyone
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > something really strange and peculiar happened in my
                                                                                                                        > tanks late yesterday! i have 4 betta tanks all filled
                                                                                                                        > with the same water having all 4 sponge filters and
                                                                                                                        > same setup evrything the same! now at the beginning
                                                                                                                        > the fish were great doing all four then this morning i
                                                                                                                        > found one of the four males dead in it's and even the
                                                                                                                        > female was dead as well in the same tank! the
                                                                                                                        > temperature is fine and no toxins fell in the tank or
                                                                                                                        > the water was toxic becuase the other would have died
                                                                                                                        > as well! The other interesting thing is that the nest
                                                                                                                        > is built and fukky intact! The other 3 betta well 2
                                                                                                                        > have a good very good nest and the other has no
                                                                                                                        > interest at all (its a blue plakat)
                                                                                                                        > What do you think? i am out of ideas!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nigel
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9782 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: The San Diego Tropical Fish Society , 4/10/2005, 7:00 pm
                                                                                                                        Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        The San Diego Tropical Fish Society

                                                                                                                        Sunday April 10, 2005
                                                                                                                        7:00 pm - 8:00 pm
                                                                                                                        This event repeats on the second Sunday of every month.
                                                                                                                        The next reminder for this event will be sent in 9 days, 23 hours, 1 minute.

                                                                                                                        Event Location: room 101, Casa Del Prado, Balboa Park at 7:00 PM
                                                                                                                        Street: SAN DIEGO TROPICAL FISH SOCIETY, PO Box 4156, North Park Station
                                                                                                                        City, State, Zip: San Diego, CA 92164
                                                                                                                        Phone: 619-281-FISH

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                                                                                                                        You are cordially invited to attend our next meeting in room 101, Casa Del Prado, Balboa Park at 7:00 PM on the second Sunday of the month. Visitors are always welcome! 619-281-FISH

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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9783 From: valbogert01 Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Oto cat question
                                                                                                                        I have 2 Oto's. They developed ich when I first brought them home and
                                                                                                                        infected the entire tank. Thankfully I caught it soon enough to save
                                                                                                                        all my fish. I have a "cave" for them in the tank. But, they never
                                                                                                                        come out of it. They used to cling around the tank and clean the
                                                                                                                        leaves and sides. Now I never see them. I finally took the cave out so
                                                                                                                        I could make sure they are alive and healthy. They now freak out if I
                                                                                                                        bump the tank or walk by it. Is this normal behavior?? Should I put
                                                                                                                        the cave back?

                                                                                                                        Val
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9784 From: Rachel Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: photos up!
                                                                                                                        i finally put some photos of my fish up! its in the album labeled
                                                                                                                        Rachel's Fish

                                                                                                                        I love my wet pets!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9785 From: bettamuse Date: 3/28/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!
                                                                                                                        Hi Rachel,

                                                                                                                        What tail type is the betta that is biting his tail?
                                                                                                                        It has no ill effect on your bettas health.

                                                                                                                        I've seen this a lot and it is nearly always in the Halfmoon fish
                                                                                                                        that have a large tail volume. We've tried everything to stop bettas
                                                                                                                        doing this and it makes no difference what we do. Some fish do it
                                                                                                                        and some don't, it would seem to be habit forming as well, once they
                                                                                                                        start they always seem to do it.
                                                                                                                        It's a very frustrating habit as we sell bettas over the net, you
                                                                                                                        take a pic of one to sell, someone buys him and when you go to bag
                                                                                                                        him up you find he has eaten his tail.
                                                                                                                        They also do it in transit, you send a stunning fish and on the way
                                                                                                                        to his new home he eats his tail. The end result is an annoyed buyer
                                                                                                                        that is sure you have sent them a dodgy fish deliberately.

                                                                                                                        If anyone has a cure or way to stop this happening please let me
                                                                                                                        know.

                                                                                                                        Cheers
                                                                                                                        BM

                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > one of my beloved bettas was flashin around and it got my
                                                                                                                        attention.
                                                                                                                        > turns out he was going in circles... eating his tail. um. yeah.
                                                                                                                        and
                                                                                                                        > one of my other bettas actually jumped up in his container when i
                                                                                                                        let
                                                                                                                        > my boyfriend feed him. and he was freaked out. but yeah i am very
                                                                                                                        > worried... when i can i plan on putting up pictures of my fish of
                                                                                                                        > course, some before and after of the one with the tail eating
                                                                                                                        problem.
                                                                                                                        > i feed all my fish every single day. and they enjoy it. oh and
                                                                                                                        also my
                                                                                                                        > butterly betta flares at dr pepper. its so cute.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > but can someone please help me...? with the tail biting... he
                                                                                                                        lives a
                                                                                                                        > stress free life (i think) he is not placed next to any other
                                                                                                                        bettas.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > thanks much.
                                                                                                                        > Rachel
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9786 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                                        Hi
                                                                                                                        yes sure so here they are my tanks are approximately
                                                                                                                        5gallon tank it was well planted yes and it had some
                                                                                                                        caves as well. this is not my first time that i am
                                                                                                                        breeding bettas and yes they were separated before i
                                                                                                                        introduced them they had been separated and seeing
                                                                                                                        each other about 5 days and they did see each other as
                                                                                                                        well. They were bought condition for breeding becuase
                                                                                                                        i fed them high nutrient food knowing that they had to
                                                                                                                        stay a bit on a diet afterwards! The water was good
                                                                                                                        they were both of them healthy and i dont know what
                                                                                                                        you need to say more please tell me if you need any
                                                                                                                        more info!

                                                                                                                        Nigel
                                                                                                                        --- Nan <ntalb00@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------

                                                                                                                        Nigel,

                                                                                                                        First, specify. How big are your tanks? Was it well
                                                                                                                        planted? Did
                                                                                                                        you give them places to hide such as a cave? Is this
                                                                                                                        your first
                                                                                                                        attempt at a spawn of a pair? Did you orginally have
                                                                                                                        them seperated
                                                                                                                        but could still see each other for a few days (I give
                                                                                                                        mine at least a
                                                                                                                        week, by that time he stops flareing at her so much
                                                                                                                        and she
                                                                                                                        has "striped up" and is ready, but sometimes it take 2
                                                                                                                        weeks)? What
                                                                                                                        did you treat the water with? We are going to need
                                                                                                                        some details on
                                                                                                                        what you did before this all happened with them so we
                                                                                                                        can get a
                                                                                                                        better picture of what was going on. I will be
                                                                                                                        looking forward to
                                                                                                                        hearing your reply.

                                                                                                                        Nan and Crew
                                                                                                                        Rome, GA USA

                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rei - Raymond
                                                                                                                        Tremor"
                                                                                                                        <rei_tremor@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > Some bettas live up to 1 year (if bought in stores).
                                                                                                                        Some of the
                                                                                                                        ones they
                                                                                                                        > sell are about 1 to 1 1/2 years old when sold. If
                                                                                                                        they are
                                                                                                                        maintained
                                                                                                                        > properly they live longer. It depends on the way
                                                                                                                        they are taken
                                                                                                                        cared off
                                                                                                                        > too. There are bettas that lives up to 5 yrs or more
                                                                                                                        but rare. They
                                                                                                                        say they
                                                                                                                        > live in the rice paddles in Thailand (Siam) and they
                                                                                                                        are brackish
                                                                                                                        fish
                                                                                                                        > (salt/fresh water fish), cause they say some rice
                                                                                                                        fields are near
                                                                                                                        salt farms
                                                                                                                        > or something.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Do you treat your water with conditioner? If not
                                                                                                                        then they might
                                                                                                                        have been
                                                                                                                        > poisoned by chemicals (chlorine, ammonia, and other
                                                                                                                        stuff).
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                        > LoveMoAko@H...
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                        > Date: 03/27/05 09:28:13
                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Betta
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > no no they didnt die of age they were all of the
                                                                                                                        same age and the
                                                                                                                        others are
                                                                                                                        > fine!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nigel
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > how old are your bettas? perhaps they passed away
                                                                                                                        from simply being
                                                                                                                        old.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > Hi everyone
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > something really strange and peculiar happened in my
                                                                                                                        > tanks late yesterday! i have 4 betta tanks all
                                                                                                                        filled
                                                                                                                        > with the same water having all 4 sponge filters and
                                                                                                                        > same setup evrything the same! now at the beginning
                                                                                                                        > the fish were great doing all four then this morning
                                                                                                                        i
                                                                                                                        > found one of the four males dead in it's and even
                                                                                                                        the
                                                                                                                        > female was dead as well in the same tank! the
                                                                                                                        > temperature is fine and no toxins fell in the tank
                                                                                                                        or
                                                                                                                        > the water was toxic becuase the other would have
                                                                                                                        died
                                                                                                                        > as well! The other interesting thing is that the
                                                                                                                        nest
                                                                                                                        > is built and fukky intact! The other 3 betta well 2
                                                                                                                        > have a good very good nest and the other has no
                                                                                                                        > interest at all (its a blue plakat)
                                                                                                                        > What do you think? i am out of ideas!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nigel
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Send instant messages to your online friends
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9787 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Oto cat question

                                                                                                                        Val,

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Try putting in a couple of more otos. They love to be in groups and are most effective this way. Once you have them in a small group of 4+ they may not even hide in the cave all the time. I have a group of 12 and they are very interesting to watch. Freaking out is a normal behavior of insecurity and they can feel more viberations then other fish as they are clinging to the glass.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Secondly, Otos did not infect your tank of ich. Ich is always there in the tank but in dormant state until a fish comes along that has weakened itself. Usually due to stress of transportation. But since that is fixed, I will not continue any further.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                        From: valbogert01 [mailto:valbogert01@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: 29 March 2005 04:40
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Oto cat question

                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                        I have 2 Oto's. They developed ich when I first brought them home and
                                                                                                                        infected the entire tank. Thankfully I caught it soon enough to save
                                                                                                                        all my fish. I have a "cave" for them in the tank. But, they never
                                                                                                                        come out of it. They used to cling around the tank and clean the
                                                                                                                        leaves and sides. Now I never see them. I finally took the cave out so
                                                                                                                        I could make sure they are alive and healthy. They now freak out if I
                                                                                                                        bump the tank or walk by it. Is this normal behavior?? Should I put
                                                                                                                        the cave back?

                                                                                                                        Val





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9788 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Melanochromis Dialeptos

                                                                                                                        Angela,

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        You can ideally have only other melanochromis species along with a melanochromis. If you can buy fish in which the sexes can be separated, then go for a group of 1male and 3 females of a species. If you are sure that the melanochromis you have is a dialeptos (auratus is most common) then ideally you should get another females and a male of the same which may be very difficult to find and differentiate from Auratus.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                        From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: 28 March 2005 23:22
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Melanochromis Dialeptos

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        I have identified my African cichlid as a melanochromis dialeptos and would appreciate any information as to other fish to add to the tank.  It's a 29 gallon tank, but I'd like at least one or two more fish, if that's possible!



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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9789 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Daylight Savings Time Reminder-

                                                                                                                         Cukoo ClockDaylight Saving time

                                                                                                                                           is April 3rd-

                                                                                                                                     Don't Forget  To Change

                                                                                                                                         Your  Alarm Clock  Ahead !

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Stacey and her crew!








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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9790 From: ruth eubanks Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time Reminder-
                                                                                                                         Stacey, Thanks for reminding me!!!   Do you happed to know anything about guppys (fry)?
                                                                                                                                    I'm new to the group and my name is Ruth.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks!! 

                                                                                                                        Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                         Cukoo ClockDaylight Saving time

                                                                                                                                           is April 3rd-

                                                                                                                                     Don't Forget  To Change

                                                                                                                                         Your  Alarm Clock  Ahead !

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Stacey and her crew!








                                                                                                                        Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9791 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Melanochromis Dialeptos
                                                                                                                        The difference between the auratus and dialeptos is the tail.  Mine has the black stripes throughout the tail, and the auratus has half yellow, half black striped tail.  Would a yellow lab or two work in my tank?
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                        Angela,

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        You can ideally have only other melanochromis species along with a melanochromis. If you can buy fish in which the sexes can be separated, then go for a group of 1male and 3 females of a species. If you are sure that the melanochromis you have is a dialeptos (auratus is most common) then ideally you should get another females and a male of the same which may be very difficult to find and differentiate from Auratus.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                        From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: 28 March 2005 23:22
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Melanochromis Dialeptos

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        I have identified my African cichlid as a melanochromis dialeptos and would appreciate any information as to other fish to add to the tank.  It's a 29 gallon tank, but I'd like at least one or two more fish, if that's possible!



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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9792 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Ruth
                                                                                                                        What do you need to know? I am fairly new too. I will try to answer if i can't -maybe someone else can.So what is it you have a ? about fry.
                                                                                                                        Stacey 

                                                                                                                        ruth eubanks <whatsdiggin@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                         Stacey, Thanks for reminding me!!!   Do you happed to know anything about guppys (fry)?
                                                                                                                                    I'm new to the group and my name is Ruth.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks!! 

                                                                                                                        Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                         Cukoo ClockDaylight Saving time

                                                                                                                                           is April 3rd-

                                                                                                                                     Don't Forget  To Change

                                                                                                                                         Your  Alarm Clock  Ahead !

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Stacey and her crew!








                                                                                                                        Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9793 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: hello
                                                                                                                        Phil, Nice selection of fish you have there. The Goyder River
                                                                                                                        Trifasciata has to be one of the best looking of all the Rainbows
                                                                                                                        with Boesmani close behind. M. splendida inornata is probably the
                                                                                                                        best one in that group (Splendida). I had that one about 5 years ago
                                                                                                                        and was really pleased with it. Apparently, it needs alkaline water
                                                                                                                        as it never really did great for me in the acid water my M.
                                                                                                                        maccullochi use to thrive in.
                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                        I notice you're keeping and expect to receive some non-native fish
                                                                                                                        from New Guinea and Irian Jaya. I also notice your allowed import
                                                                                                                        list is quite restricted; its a wonder that these fish are even
                                                                                                                        allowed in, or are they already pretty well established in the hobby
                                                                                                                        by you? A note on G. Incisus -- they're beautiful, but I've found
                                                                                                                        them to be pugnacious.
                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                        Gudgeons are somewhat rare here in the States. I'm not familiar with
                                                                                                                        all of them, but I have seen one called the Empire Gudgeon (H.
                                                                                                                        compressa) which is absolutely stunning. Could Peacock be another
                                                                                                                        name for it, would you know? Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Fish Bloke" <fishbloke@b...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        > Currently I have Goyder R. Trifasciata, Nigrans, Werneri, P.
                                                                                                                        signifer, Inornata, Praecox. Soon I should be getting Incisus,
                                                                                                                        Bitanta (spelling?) and Boesmani. I also have peacock gudgeons.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I also have loads of plants. If anyone Australians are interested,
                                                                                                                        email me direct.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Cheers,
                                                                                                                        > Phil.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                        > The Rainbows are fairly popular here in the States. Are there
                                                                                                                        any
                                                                                                                        > certain ones that you keep (like M. Maccullochi, or?)? There are
                                                                                                                        > some real nice Gudgeons which should be fairly easy for you to
                                                                                                                        > obtain. Can I presume you have some of these as
                                                                                                                        well?
                                                                                                                        > \
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9794 From: rosette55@webtv.net Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Nimish
                                                                                                                        hi Nimish could you please not post in that blue text. i love reading
                                                                                                                        your comments but cannot view them when posted in blue due to my webtv.
                                                                                                                        i would really appreciate it! thanks, samantha
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9795 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Nimish

                                                                                                                        Hi Sam,

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Sorry for that. I will try and remember to change the colours back to black. Outlook by default converts replied posts to blue which I really cannot change as I also get my official emails at the same time and as per the rules, reply has to be in default blue colour.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                        From: rosette55@... [mailto:rosette55@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: 29 March 2005 19:44
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nimish

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        hi Nimish could you please not post in that blue text.  i love reading
                                                                                                                        your comments but cannot view them when posted in blue due to my webtv.
                                                                                                                        i would really appreciate it!  thanks, samantha



                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9796 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Rainbow
                                                                                                                        Hi everyone

                                                                                                                        by any chance anybody has any personal experience on
                                                                                                                        breeding dwarf neon rainbows. I found loads of info on
                                                                                                                        the internet but i would like somebodies experience as
                                                                                                                        well

                                                                                                                        Nigel

                                                                                                                        Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9797 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Melanochromis Dialeptos

                                                                                                                        Angela,

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        As long as the melanochromis you have is a female, you can have yellow labs or most other mbunas in with them. Male melanochromis are the ones that can turn killers if they decide to spawn.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Your options are:

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Yellow labs, red top Hongi Labs, red zebras (Pseudotropheus), Pseudotropheus mbamba, and other labidochromis species.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                        From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: 29 March 2005 15:18
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Melanochromis Dialeptos

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        The difference between the auratus and dialeptos is the tail.  Mine has the black stripes throughout the tail, and the auratus has half yellow, half black striped tail.  Would a yellow lab or two work in my tank?

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                        Angela,

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        You can ideally have only other melanochromis species along with a melanochromis. If you can buy fish in which the sexes can be separated, then go for a group of 1male and 3 females of a species. If you are sure that the melanochromis you have is a dialeptos (auratus is most common) then ideally you should get another females and a male of the same which may be very difficult to find and differentiate from Auratus.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                        From: angelasjenkins@... [mailto:angelasjenkins@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: 28 March 2005 23:22
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Melanochromis Dialeptos

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        I have identified my African cichlid as a melanochromis dialeptos and would appreciate any information as to other fish to add to the tank.  It's a 29 gallon tank, but I'd like at least one or two more fish, if that's possible!



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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9798 From: Rachel Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!
                                                                                                                        i assume he has a veil tail because i picked him up in a petstore,
                                                                                                                        my friends and i go on betta rescue missions... well mostly me.
                                                                                                                        thats how i aquired so many. pictures of him and my other aquatic
                                                                                                                        children are in my album, Rachel's Fish

                                                                                                                        thank for the reply, i feel much better about his tail munching. oh
                                                                                                                        dear, im afraid hes still munching on it. oh my favorite betta is
                                                                                                                        staring and flaring at me. how adorable.

                                                                                                                        thanks bunches
                                                                                                                        Rachel

                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bettamuse" <bettamuse@y...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hi Rachel,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > What tail type is the betta that is biting his tail?
                                                                                                                        > It has no ill effect on your bettas health.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I've seen this a lot and it is nearly always in the Halfmoon fish
                                                                                                                        > that have a large tail volume. We've tried everything to stop
                                                                                                                        bettas
                                                                                                                        > doing this and it makes no difference what we do. Some fish do it
                                                                                                                        > and some don't, it would seem to be habit forming as well, once
                                                                                                                        they
                                                                                                                        > start they always seem to do it.
                                                                                                                        > It's a very frustrating habit as we sell bettas over the net, you
                                                                                                                        > take a pic of one to sell, someone buys him and when you go to bag
                                                                                                                        > him up you find he has eaten his tail.
                                                                                                                        > They also do it in transit, you send a stunning fish and on the
                                                                                                                        way
                                                                                                                        > to his new home he eats his tail. The end result is an annoyed
                                                                                                                        buyer
                                                                                                                        > that is sure you have sent them a dodgy fish deliberately.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > If anyone has a cure or way to stop this happening please let me
                                                                                                                        > know.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Cheers
                                                                                                                        > BM
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > one of my beloved bettas was flashin around and it got my
                                                                                                                        > attention.
                                                                                                                        > > turns out he was going in circles... eating his tail. um. yeah.
                                                                                                                        > and
                                                                                                                        > > one of my other bettas actually jumped up in his container when
                                                                                                                        i
                                                                                                                        > let
                                                                                                                        > > my boyfriend feed him. and he was freaked out. but yeah i am
                                                                                                                        very
                                                                                                                        > > worried... when i can i plan on putting up pictures of my fish
                                                                                                                        of
                                                                                                                        > > course, some before and after of the one with the tail eating
                                                                                                                        > problem.
                                                                                                                        > > i feed all my fish every single day. and they enjoy it. oh and
                                                                                                                        > also my
                                                                                                                        > > butterly betta flares at dr pepper. its so cute.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > but can someone please help me...? with the tail biting... he
                                                                                                                        > lives a
                                                                                                                        > > stress free life (i think) he is not placed next to any other
                                                                                                                        > bettas.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > thanks much.
                                                                                                                        > > Rachel
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9799 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Rainbow

                                                                                                                        Nigel,

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        They are the easiest rainbows to breed. And they spawn like rabbits.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        You need to provide them with acidic – neutral water and good plant thickets and they wil spawn every 3-5 days regularly but unfortunately will try to eat the eggs immidiatly. If you can provide them a spawning mop then they works the best. Keep the eggs separated from the parents in a growout tank. Have loads of snails in that tank (I had loads of pest snails). Eggs take an awful lot of time to hatch (5-9 days) depending on temperature. Once they hatch the fry are free swimming in about 1-2 days I think and grow very slowly. They need to be fed infusoria so if you have loads of pest snails, they will take care of the infusoria. You can also feed them liquifry for egg layers food and after about a week they can start to take crushed flakes. I really never fed them as per a manual but they always did well on crushed flakes.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                        From: Nigel Chetcuti [mailto:nigelchetcuti@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: 29 March 2005 20:17
                                                                                                                        To: Aquatic life; buzaqq; fish corner; fish Fancier
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Rainbow

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Hi everyone

                                                                                                                        by any chance anybody has any personal experience  on
                                                                                                                        breeding dwarf neon rainbows. I found loads of info on
                                                                                                                        the internet but i would like somebodies experience as
                                                                                                                        well

                                                                                                                        Nigel

                                                                                                                        Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9800 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Oto cat question
                                                                                                                        i also had 2 otos that developed ich when i put them in my tank. i haven't seen 1 of them in days
                                                                                                                        but the other is fine now that i dosed him with maracide. i added 2 more after the ick was gone &
                                                                                                                        they seem much happier now. i seem them congregating together on the zucchini slices all the time
                                                                                                                        =)

                                                                                                                        --- valbogert01 <valbogert01@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I have 2 Oto's. They developed ich when I first brought them home and
                                                                                                                        > infected the entire tank. Thankfully I caught it soon enough to save
                                                                                                                        > all my fish. I have a "cave" for them in the tank. But, they never
                                                                                                                        > come out of it. They used to cling around the tank and clean the
                                                                                                                        > leaves and sides. Now I never see them. I finally took the cave out so
                                                                                                                        > I could make sure they are alive and healthy. They now freak out if I
                                                                                                                        > bump the tank or walk by it. Is this normal behavior?? Should I put
                                                                                                                        > the cave back?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Val
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9801 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Betta
                                                                                                                        well, regardless of whether you were refering to the marine betta, i was just commenting on the
                                                                                                                        difference between them & the b. splendens. very different looking!

                                                                                                                        --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        > To clarify, when I said there are some betta species that live in salt
                                                                                                                        > water, I didn't mean the "marine betta". As was said, they are completely
                                                                                                                        > different. I can't find the website that was about bettas that lived on the
                                                                                                                        > coast, but there are Mahachai bettas that are brackish.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Patrick
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                        > has anyone ever seen a marine betta? i saw one the other day and it doesn't
                                                                                                                        > look much like the b.
                                                                                                                        > splendens most of us see in fish stores/pet stores. for one thing, they get
                                                                                                                        > much bigger, and on
                                                                                                                        > the one i saw, it didn't have long, flowing fins. of course it may have been
                                                                                                                        > a female so that
                                                                                                                        > might explain the absence of the long fins.


                                                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9802 From: valbogert01 Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Oto cat question
                                                                                                                        Thanks for the advice. Nimish, I only have a 10 gallon and cannot put
                                                                                                                        anymore fish into it. I am thinking about putting the cave back in so
                                                                                                                        that they have some security. Also, there was mention of zuchinni. How
                                                                                                                        much do you give them? Is there anything else they might like?
                                                                                                                        Val
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9803 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Oto cat question
                                                                                                                        i put just a small slice since the otos are so small. they don't seem to like any other veggies
                                                                                                                        i've tried to feed them (have tried romaine & cucumber). but others have said to try brussel
                                                                                                                        sprouts, romaine lettuce & spinach.

                                                                                                                        check out this site for lots of oto info:

                                                                                                                        http://otocinclus.com

                                                                                                                        --- valbogert01 <valbogert01@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Thanks for the advice. Nimish, I only have a 10 gallon and cannot put
                                                                                                                        > anymore fish into it. I am thinking about putting the cave back in so
                                                                                                                        > that they have some security. Also, there was mention of zuchinni. How
                                                                                                                        > much do you give them? Is there anything else they might like?
                                                                                                                        > Val
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9804 From: Audrey Archer Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Swordtail Endlers and baby Convicts
                                                                                                                        I got some advice from Armando Pou on the Endler's - apparently it is about a 1/200 trait in the wild, not very common but not unheard of. Naturally occuring variation in Endler's. So I moved the male with the longest sword to my almost empty brackish tank (Endler's apparently are very very happy in brackish water) and while chasing him found a few other males with shorter sword extensions. I am going to try for a group of these varieties.

                                                                                                                        The fry I have to give away are the CONVICTS. (Blue & black variety, pale to white when under stress.) Some of the fry are splotchy instead of striped. Not sure I want to try to ship to Missouri... 1000 miles away. I don't feed my Convict fry to anything, but I did feed some Endler's fry to my Convicts before they spawned (they won't eat them now because they have their own fry in the tank).

                                                                                                                        My local fish store doesn't take in fry, although my daughter found one that would take them but would not give her even store credit for them much less any money. And since Convicts are apparently the "guppies" of the cichlid world, may not be much market for them. Mine were given to my husband for free, and he took them cause they had said they were African cichlids (which is what I set up my tank for). Although they do seem happy enough in my 8.5 pH hard, hard well water, with African Cichlid Sand, to which I added salt and magnesium and calcium... And the male does have "egg spots" now on his fins, so maybe they aren't Convicts after all? (Do I have a cave breeding African type that has mouthbreeder markings?!)

                                                                                                                        Audrey
                                                                                                                        > > ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        > ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Message: 4
                                                                                                                        > Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 01:31:53 -0000
                                                                                                                        > From: "Aaron" <aaron_r_martin@...>
                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: Endlers Swordtails?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hi Audrey,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Sounds interesting, take good care of him and try to selective breed
                                                                                                                        > him only and see if his kids have the same trait.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I've not had any endlers yet.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I do have the rest of the livebearers and I mixed some female Mickey
                                                                                                                        > Mouse Platies and Sunset Fire Platies with a male Swordtail -
                                                                                                                        > and now I have some hybred "Sunset-Fire-Mickey-Mouse-Swordtails"!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > So I know platy and swordtails will interbreed as they have similar
                                                                                                                        > latin names.
                                                                                                                        > I know endlers will breed with guppies.
                                                                                                                        > Do not think endlers and swordtails would breed tho.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I have seen lyretails that look like endlers.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hope that helps, keep us posted,
                                                                                                                        > Aaron
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Audrey Archer <arch1574@b...>
                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                        > > New topic - my Endlers have been happily breeding in their
                                                                                                                        > planted tank, and today I saw a male who has a REAL sword tail - not
                                                                                                                        > just the red markings on the clear fin that they all have, but an
                                                                                                                        > actual physical extension beyond the rest of the fin.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > I do not and never have had any "Swordtails" that could have
                                                                                                                        > inbred, and I do not believe Swordtails are even Poecilia species,
                                                                                                                        > are they?
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Audrey
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > 10 gal FW Planted Tank
                                                                                                                        > > 4 Golden White Clouds (?)
                                                                                                                        > > MANY Endler's Livebearers
                                                                                                                        > > a few pond snails
                                                                                                                        > > 10 gal Brackish Tank
                                                                                                                        > > empty :-(
                                                                                                                        > > 29 gal high pH tank
                                                                                                                        > > one adult pair Convict cichlids
                                                                                                                        > > about 40 - 50 1/2 inch fry (now getting nice markings
                                                                                                                        > and available to good homes)
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Savannah Georgia USA
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Message: 14
                                                                                                                        > Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 04:50:16 -0000
                                                                                                                        > From: "mommy2acdhsurvivor" <CK147@...>
                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: Endlers Swordtails?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hello audrey,
                                                                                                                        > I tried to find your original post to write to just you but
                                                                                                                        > couldn't find it. You said they where looking for new homes are you
                                                                                                                        > interested in shipping any. Or are you close to kansas or missouri?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Message: 21
                                                                                                                        > Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 07:39:29 -0000
                                                                                                                        > From: "Aaron" <aaron_r_martin@...>
                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: hi all i am new to
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hi Scott,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Welcome to the group.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I don't know anything about the convicts but am curious as to the
                                                                                                                        > comment - ">i feed the baby convicts to the fish in the bigger tank"
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I have mostly Livebearers myself, and some fry do get eaten in the
                                                                                                                        > community tank. However I do sell the fry to a LFS for at least $1
                                                                                                                        > each. So its in my best intrest to keep as many alive as I resonably
                                                                                                                        > can.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Is there no market for the baby convicts?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Just curious,
                                                                                                                        > Aaron
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "scott johnston"
                                                                                                                        > <scott_johnston75@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > hello all im new to the group i have a 55 gallon tank and a 10
                                                                                                                        > gallon
                                                                                                                        > > tank . my 55 gallon tank has a jack dempcy 2 parrot fish one oscar
                                                                                                                        > 3
                                                                                                                        > > convicts and one pleco.oh and one kissing fish to. in the 10
                                                                                                                        > gallon
                                                                                                                        > > tank i have one female convict that i use for breeding , i feed
                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                        > > baby convicts to the fish in the bigger tank ..
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9805 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: hello
                                                                                                                        G'day Ray

                                                                                                                        The Peacock Gudgeon is a small rather peaceful gudgeon from PNG - stocks are
                                                                                                                        well established here in Australia and as well they have been recently added
                                                                                                                        to the allowed import list due to the efforts of one of our hobbyists.

                                                                                                                        Peacocks are always beautiful but Empires are extremely colourful when
                                                                                                                        breeding but rather plain other times. The secret is to keep them warm. Fry
                                                                                                                        are very tiny and hard to raise in aquaria.

                                                                                                                        PNG rainbows have been prohibited imports for over 20 years so we have lost
                                                                                                                        stocks of some species but many are still maintained in the hobby. ANGFA
                                                                                                                        tries hard to keep species maintenance going but "fashions" are hard to
                                                                                                                        buck.

                                                                                                                        Cheers

                                                                                                                        Bruce
                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        From: "Ray Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...>
                                                                                                                        To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                        Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:41 AM
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: hello


                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Phil, Nice selection of fish you have there. The Goyder River
                                                                                                                        > Trifasciata has to be one of the best looking of all the Rainbows
                                                                                                                        > with Boesmani close behind. M. splendida inornata is probably the
                                                                                                                        > best one in that group (Splendida). I had that one about 5 years ago
                                                                                                                        > and was really pleased with it. Apparently, it needs alkaline water
                                                                                                                        > as it never really did great for me in the acid water my M.
                                                                                                                        > maccullochi use to thrive in.
                                                                                                                        > \
                                                                                                                        > I notice you're keeping and expect to receive some non-native fish
                                                                                                                        > from New Guinea and Irian Jaya. I also notice your allowed import
                                                                                                                        > list is quite restricted; its a wonder that these fish are even
                                                                                                                        > allowed in, or are they already pretty well established in the hobby
                                                                                                                        > by you? A note on G. Incisus -- they're beautiful, but I've found
                                                                                                                        > them to be pugnacious.
                                                                                                                        > \
                                                                                                                        > Gudgeons are somewhat rare here in the States. I'm not familiar with
                                                                                                                        > all of them, but I have seen one called the Empire Gudgeon (H.
                                                                                                                        > compressa) which is absolutely stunning. Could Peacock be another
                                                                                                                        > name for it, would you know? Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                        > \
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9806 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Rainbow
                                                                                                                        NIgel

                                                                                                                        M. praecox (Dwarf Neon Rainbows) are one of the easiest to spawn and raise
                                                                                                                        because they mature early, spawn almost continuously and are not fussy about
                                                                                                                        water parameters as long as changes are made gradually.

                                                                                                                        They definitely look their best in a school with some front lighting.

                                                                                                                        Cheers

                                                                                                                        Bruce
                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        From: "Nigel Chetcuti" <nigelchetcuti@...>
                                                                                                                        To: "Aquatic life" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>; "buzaqq"
                                                                                                                        <buzaqq@yahoogroups.com>; "fish corner" <fishescorner@yahoogroups.com>;
                                                                                                                        "fish Fancier" <Fish_Fanciers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                        Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 5:16 AM
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Rainbow


                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hi everyone
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > by any chance anybody has any personal experience on
                                                                                                                        > breeding dwarf neon rainbows. I found loads of info on
                                                                                                                        > the internet but i would like somebodies experience as
                                                                                                                        > well
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nigel
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9807 From: wendie Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!
                                                                                                                        I have one that does it constantly.   I found that if I change the water and move the decorations,
                                                                                                                        it's tail biting time.  If everything goes back the way it was, he's fine until the tail reaches a certain
                                                                                                                        point and then he leaves bloody stumps!!!   This has been going on for months, and months.
                                                                                                                        Wendie
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        From: Rachel [mailto:star9crystal@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:26 PM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: betta tail biting?!?!


                                                                                                                        i assume he has a veil tail because i picked him up in a petstore,
                                                                                                                        my friends and i go on betta rescue missions... well mostly me.
                                                                                                                        thats how i aquired so many. pictures of him and my other aquatic
                                                                                                                        children are in my album, Rachel's Fish

                                                                                                                        thank for the reply, i feel much better about his tail munching. oh
                                                                                                                        dear, im afraid hes still munching on it. oh my favorite betta is
                                                                                                                        staring and flaring at me. how adorable.

                                                                                                                        thanks bunches
                                                                                                                        Rachel

                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bettamuse" <bettamuse@y...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hi Rachel,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > What tail type is the betta that is biting his tail?
                                                                                                                        > It has no ill effect on your bettas health.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I've seen this a lot and it is nearly always in the Halfmoon fish
                                                                                                                        > that have a large tail volume. We've tried everything to stop
                                                                                                                        bettas
                                                                                                                        > doing this and it makes no difference what we do. Some fish do it
                                                                                                                        > and some don't, it would seem to be habit forming as well, once
                                                                                                                        they
                                                                                                                        > start they always seem to do it.
                                                                                                                        > It's a very frustrating habit as we sell bettas over the net, you
                                                                                                                        > take a pic of one to sell, someone buys him and when you go to bag
                                                                                                                        > him up you find he has eaten his tail.
                                                                                                                        > They also do it in transit, you send a stunning fish and on the
                                                                                                                        way
                                                                                                                        > to his new home he eats his tail. The end result is an annoyed
                                                                                                                        buyer
                                                                                                                        > that is sure you have sent them a dodgy fish deliberately.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > If anyone has a cure or way to stop this happening please let me
                                                                                                                        > know.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Cheers
                                                                                                                        > BM
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > one of my beloved bettas was flashin around and it got my
                                                                                                                        > attention.
                                                                                                                        > > turns out he was going in circles... eating his tail. um. yeah.
                                                                                                                        > and
                                                                                                                        > > one of my other bettas actually jumped up in his container when
                                                                                                                        i
                                                                                                                        > let
                                                                                                                        > > my boyfriend feed him. and he was freaked out. but yeah i am
                                                                                                                        very
                                                                                                                        > > worried... when i can i plan on putting up pictures of my fish
                                                                                                                        of
                                                                                                                        > > course, some before and after of the one with the tail eating
                                                                                                                        > problem.
                                                                                                                        > > i feed all my fish every single day. and they enjoy it. oh and
                                                                                                                        > also my
                                                                                                                        > > butterly betta flares at dr pepper. its so cute.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > but can someone please help me...? with the tail biting... he
                                                                                                                        > lives a
                                                                                                                        > > stress free life (i think) he is not placed next to any other
                                                                                                                        > bettas.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > thanks much.
                                                                                                                        > > Rachel





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9808 From: Nan Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 681
                                                                                                                        Nigel,
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        You didnt' say how many or how long you have been breeding bettas, so I am going to assume that you have been doing this for a short time.  Forgive me if I am wrong.  First the pair:
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Since I am stumped on the pair I can only give you a website to go look at and see if you see a description of what they looked like in there....here it is:
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        I can only assume, other than that is that they were stressed with being moved to a new home, and then going into a breeding situation.  Or there might have been a genetic problem with the pair, if they were sibs.  Take a look at that website is all I can offer you. 
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        As for your plakat not blowing a nest.  I have a male that blows a pitiful nest every time I spawn him.....I end up with 50 or better fry from him.  Some males just don't blow a nest to speak up and spend their days blowing eggs to the top of the water and some males just get picky (My orange/black, Sherbert,  will blow a nest, but won't spawn.  I think he might be a little light in the fins..*LOL*), and sometimes useing something different for him to blow his nest in will be the ticket.  Frosty won't blow a decent nest in a half a styrofoam cup, but give him a little bubble wrap and when he gets done, it is so full of bubbles from him that it doesn't even touch the water.  Another male of mine will only use live plants to blow a nest in.  Try him with different things and see if it helps.  Also, I add Blackwater Extract to my spawn tanks before they spawn and that helps them both greatly, and  in case you didn't know, they spawn better when it is storming.  I only spawn during storms because of that reason.  And a 10 gallon tank (since you never know how many fry you will have), I find is better.  I move mine when they are 2-4 weeks of age to a "greenwater" tank that I ALWAYS have on the ready, and that too is a 10 gallon so they have room to move around without fussin too much as they grow.   Seeing as plakats are somewhat more aggressive fish, then I would suggest giving him more room to do his thing if at all possible.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Sorry to be so long winded, I get to typing and my fingers don't know when to stop...*LOL*  Have a great day and I hope I helped some.

                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                        ~nan and crew~
                                                                                                                        Rome, GA
                                                                                                                        bettas and soon we add guppys!


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                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9809 From: Linda Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Whisper Micro Filter and Betta
                                                                                                                        I purchased two 2.5 gallon aquariums for my 2 Betta Oscar and Rasco
                                                                                                                        last Friday night. I had Oscar in his new home with a heater and he
                                                                                                                        really loves it. I was told that it was alright to use the Whisper
                                                                                                                        Micro Filter that came with the tank and it was a good idea to have
                                                                                                                        one. Tonight after work I took out 25% of the water in Oscar's tank
                                                                                                                        and replaced it with new spring water. I also added the Whisper
                                                                                                                        Micro Filter along with the heater. Poor Oscar freaked out!
                                                                                                                        especially when I turned it on. I think he is very afraid of it. I
                                                                                                                        ended up taking it out of his tank. I think he is doing better, but
                                                                                                                        I also think he is totally pissed off at me for doing this. It was
                                                                                                                        like he could not swim when the filter was turned on. I had it
                                                                                                                        turned on low. I may have to take him out for an hour and run the
                                                                                                                        filter when he is out and then remove the filter and put him back
                                                                                                                        in. He is not eating his food as he will put it in his mouth and
                                                                                                                        then spit it out again. Hope fully the filer will get the excess
                                                                                                                        food that he did not eat. The little guy is getting quite picky on
                                                                                                                        his food also. Would it be a good idea just to feed him once a day
                                                                                                                        instead of two or three for a while? By the way, I am now down to 4
                                                                                                                        Triops from 9. The 4 that I have left are getting really big and
                                                                                                                        ugly! I have one that is pacing around the bottom of the tank and
                                                                                                                        while he is doing this I think he is pooping or could be laying
                                                                                                                        eggs? While he is doing this he seems to pick a fight with another
                                                                                                                        one....Any suggestions?

                                                                                                                        Betta Smootches for now
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9810 From: Nan Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: I added....
                                                                                                                        I just wanted to let everyone know that I added to the members links
                                                                                                                        page my home page and a link to see my pics of my Bettas Splendas.
                                                                                                                        Later I will add the other fish.

                                                                                                                        Thanks for your time!

                                                                                                                        Nan and Crew!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9811 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Oto cat question
                                                                                                                        They definitely need a hiding place for themselves.
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9812 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 3/29/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Whisper Micro Filter and Betta
                                                                                                                        "I may have to take him out for an hour and run the filter when he is out and then remove the filter and put him back in."
                                                                                                                            That wouldn't achieve much.  The purpose of filters it to provide a constant biological and mechanical filter.  It is better to never use it than to take the fish out and run the filter for a short time.  The filter will not pick up food from overfeeding (the betta will probably eat all the extra food if he finds it), and moving the fish will stress him too much.  I suggest that you look into a sponge filter.  They run on air pumps and don't make any current at all.  Total cost should be under 10 dollars, less if you already have the air pump.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Patrick
                                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9813 From: karima_allison Date: 3/30/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Birth Patterns of Platties
                                                                                                                        I have a pregnant Platty in my tank, and last night I saw (just by
                                                                                                                        chance) a tiny baby swimming towards the bottom of the tank . . . but
                                                                                                                        the mother is still pregnant - looks like she is going to burst :-)

                                                                                                                        My question is, what is the birthing patterns of Platties? Can they
                                                                                                                        drop one and then a few days later drop another, etc.?

                                                                                                                        I also have two other babies that must have been born from this Platty,
                                                                                                                        (because of the color - exactly like her and she is the only female of
                                                                                                                        her type in the tank). These two babies are not the same size, but
                                                                                                                        must be from different birthing times.

                                                                                                                        Sorry for my lack of the proper terms for these sorts of things, but
                                                                                                                        I'm new at this. Some of my other Platties had babies last month and I
                                                                                                                        count about 30 in all. They are three different colors and about 5
                                                                                                                        different sizes . . . .

                                                                                                                        ~Karima
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9814 From: dawana325 Date: 3/30/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Oto cat question
                                                                                                                        I have to agree with Nimish. I have 4 otos in my 29 gal community
                                                                                                                        tank and they NEVER hide. They are almost always on the glass or on
                                                                                                                        leaves of live or plastic plants in the tank. I also have driftwood
                                                                                                                        which they seem to enjoy.

                                                                                                                        I suggest you get a least a couple more otos and try to quarantine
                                                                                                                        them before adding to your tank.

                                                                                                                        Good luck!
                                                                                                                        -Dawana


                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, clarkmariposo25@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                        > They definitely need a hiding place for themselves.
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9815 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 3/30/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Whisper Micro Filter and Betta
                                                                                                                        i also have a 2.5 divided for 2 of my bettas. the one on the side with the whisper didn't like it
                                                                                                                        much at first, either, but he's gotten used to it now. maybe you could leave him in there with the
                                                                                                                        filter running for awhile to get him used to it. if you don't want to do that, try a different
                                                                                                                        kind of filter perhaps.

                                                                                                                        --- Linda <lkbrown3951@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I purchased two 2.5 gallon aquariums for my 2 Betta Oscar and Rasco
                                                                                                                        > last Friday night. I had Oscar in his new home with a heater and he
                                                                                                                        > really loves it. I was told that it was alright to use the Whisper
                                                                                                                        > Micro Filter that came with the tank and it was a good idea to have
                                                                                                                        > one. Tonight after work I took out 25% of the water in Oscar's tank
                                                                                                                        > and replaced it with new spring water. I also added the Whisper
                                                                                                                        > Micro Filter along with the heater. Poor Oscar freaked out!
                                                                                                                        > especially when I turned it on. I think he is very afraid of it. I
                                                                                                                        > ended up taking it out of his tank. I think he is doing better, but
                                                                                                                        > I also think he is totally pissed off at me for doing this. It was
                                                                                                                        > like he could not swim when the filter was turned on. I had it
                                                                                                                        > turned on low. I may have to take him out for an hour and run the
                                                                                                                        > filter when he is out and then remove the filter and put him back
                                                                                                                        > in. He is not eating his food as he will put it in his mouth and
                                                                                                                        > then spit it out again. Hope fully the filer will get the excess
                                                                                                                        > food that he did not eat. The little guy is getting quite picky on
                                                                                                                        > his food also. Would it be a good idea just to feed him once a day
                                                                                                                        > instead of two or three for a while? By the way, I am now down to 4
                                                                                                                        > Triops from 9. The 4 that I have left are getting really big and
                                                                                                                        > ugly! I have one that is pacing around the bottom of the tank and
                                                                                                                        > while he is doing this I think he is pooping or could be laying
                                                                                                                        > eggs? While he is doing this he seems to pick a fight with another
                                                                                                                        > one....Any suggestions?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Betta Smootches for now
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9816 From: bettamuse Date: 3/30/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!
                                                                                                                        Hi guys,
                                                                                                                        I see we are all experiencing the tail chewing fun.
                                                                                                                        Rachel the fish on your pics folder look great. They are good healthy
                                                                                                                        looking fish.
                                                                                                                        I don't have any pics of our fish on this computer but our website is
                                                                                                                        http://www.aussiebettas.com/ ,this is were we sell our fish and the
                                                                                                                        club we are members of is http://betta-australis.com/ it is an
                                                                                                                        Australian chapter of the IBC. All the fish pictured on the site were
                                                                                                                        ours.

                                                                                                                        Cheers

                                                                                                                        BM
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9817 From: bettamuse Date: 3/30/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Aquarama
                                                                                                                        Is anyone going to Aquarama in Singapore this year?

                                                                                                                        BM
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9818 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/30/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting, 4/2/2005, 6:30 pm
                                                                                                                        Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                                        Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting

                                                                                                                        Saturday April 2, 2005
                                                                                                                        6:30 pm - 8:30 pm
                                                                                                                        This event repeats on the first Saturday of every month.

                                                                                                                        Event Location: MEETING LOCATION: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Ave., San Jose CA, USA
                                                                                                                        Street: MEETING LOCATION: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Ave.
                                                                                                                        City, State, Zip: San Jose, CA

                                                                                                                        Notes:
                                                                                                                        Silicon Valley Aquarium Society meetings are held the first Saturday of every month in San Jose. See http://www.svas.info for more information

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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9819 From: Rachel Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!
                                                                                                                        thanks.
                                                                                                                        i went to the site and I LOVE THEM. thoes fish are so gorgeous.
                                                                                                                        crowntails just fascinate me. wow. absolutely unbelieveably stunning
                                                                                                                        fish.

                                                                                                                        my boyfriend calls my room a sushi bar.
                                                                                                                        grr

                                                                                                                        Rachel

                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bettamuse" <bettamuse@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hi guys,
                                                                                                                        > I see we are all experiencing the tail chewing fun.
                                                                                                                        > Rachel the fish on your pics folder look great. They are good
                                                                                                                        healthy
                                                                                                                        > looking fish.
                                                                                                                        > I don't have any pics of our fish on this computer but our website
                                                                                                                        is
                                                                                                                        > http://www.aussiebettas.com/ ,this is were we sell our fish and the
                                                                                                                        > club we are members of is http://betta-australis.com/ it is an
                                                                                                                        > Australian chapter of the IBC. All the fish pictured on the site
                                                                                                                        were
                                                                                                                        > ours.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Cheers
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > BM
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9820 From: Robert Hickey Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Film on top of the Water
                                                                                                                        Hi all.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Had a look at my tank earlier And noticed A oily film on the top of the water, have no idea what From, And on the side of the filter casing its looks stained slightly white,
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Its a juwel 70 , Did a 30% water change, Should I do another later, ?
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        the tank isnt over stocked and noticed one of my young Bolivian rams was very much under the weather,
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        PH is 6.6
                                                                                                                        Am 0
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        the nitrites seemed to have spiked high,
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        And my tank has cycled
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Any advise?
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Cheers
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Rob
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Regards
                                                                                                                        Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Networks Engineer
                                                                                                                        Esat BT
                                                                                                                        Unit C, Dundrum Business Park
                                                                                                                        T +353 1 4328749
                                                                                                                        M +353 86 8061840
                                                                                                                        Email: rhickey@...
                                                                                                                        www.esatbt.com
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        From: Rachel
                                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:04 AM
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: betta tail biting?!?!


                                                                                                                        thanks.
                                                                                                                        i went to the site and I LOVE THEM. thoes fish are so gorgeous.
                                                                                                                        crowntails just fascinate me. wow. absolutely unbelieveably stunning
                                                                                                                        fish.

                                                                                                                        my boyfriend calls my room a sushi bar.
                                                                                                                        grr

                                                                                                                        Rachel

                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bettamuse" <bettamuse@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hi guys,
                                                                                                                        > I see we are all experiencing the tail chewing fun.
                                                                                                                        > Rachel the fish on your pics folder look great. They are good
                                                                                                                        healthy
                                                                                                                        > looking fish.
                                                                                                                        > I don't have any pics of our fish on this computer but our website
                                                                                                                        is
                                                                                                                        > http://www.aussiebettas.com/ ,this is were we sell our fish and the
                                                                                                                        > club we are members of is http://betta-australis.com/ it is an
                                                                                                                        > Australian chapter of the IBC. All the fish pictured on the site
                                                                                                                        were
                                                                                                                        > ours.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Cheers
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > BM





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9821 From: whatsdiggin Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Need a GOOD website
                                                                                                                        Hello everyone does anyone know of a good website for guppies and
                                                                                                                        fry, that give alots of how to's, and infor.
                                                                                                                        Well thanks alot and I hope everyone has a Great Day!!!!

                                                                                                                        Ruth
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9822 From: Robert Hickey Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: help
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Hi Would someone be Able to give me some help please
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        My bolivian ram is sick and just gently resting on the bottom of the tank
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        seems to be gulping in water and out of his gills
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Tank is fine and clean and cycled
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        No signs of anything ich or swimbladder or anything else that Comes to mind
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Anyone help?
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Cheers
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Rob
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Regards
                                                                                                                        Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Senior Technical Professional Engineer
                                                                                                                        Esat BT
                                                                                                                        Unit C, Dundrum Business Park
                                                                                                                        T +353 1 4328749
                                                                                                                        M +353 86 8061840
                                                                                                                        Email: rhickey@...
                                                                                                                        www.esatbt.com
                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:33 PM
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Need a GOOD website


                                                                                                                           Hello everyone does anyone know of a good website for guppies and
                                                                                                                        fry, that give alots of how to's, and infor.
                                                                                                                        Well thanks alot and I hope everyone has a Great Day!!!!
                                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                                                   Ruth            





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9823 From: valbogert01 Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Question
                                                                                                                        Hey, Here is another one.. I have a moth problem at my apartment. I
                                                                                                                        need to get a bug bomb or something. What do I need to do with the
                                                                                                                        fish? I have another tank I could transfer them to if needed. Val
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9824 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Need a GOOD website
                                                                                                                        http://www.guppies.com

                                                                                                                        http://livebearers.org

                                                                                                                        http://www.endlersr.us/

                                                                                                                        3 links you will find very helpful and full of information

                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                        NE Indiana
                                                                                                                        USA

                                                                                                                        In a message dated 3/31/2005 11:39:54 AM US Eastern Standard Time, whatsdiggin@... writes:


                                                                                                                        Hello everyone does anyone know of a good website for guppies and
                                                                                                                        fry, that give alots of how to's, and infor.
                                                                                                                        Well thanks alot and I hope everyone has a Great Day!!!!
                                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                                                   Ruth            


                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9825 From: TankGurl Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Question
                                                                                                                        On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:40:25 -0000, valbogert01 <valbogert01@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hey, Here is another one.. I have a moth problem at my apartment. I
                                                                                                                        > need to get a bug bomb or something. What do I need to do with the
                                                                                                                        > fish? I have another tank I could transfer them to if needed. Val

                                                                                                                        I've come across this question before and I seem to remember the
                                                                                                                        recommendation was to wrap the tank in saran wrap and lay towels over
                                                                                                                        the back plumbing area if it's open. Make sure the room/house has
                                                                                                                        surpassed the recommended waiting period for air quality, then wait
                                                                                                                        another 24 hours before removing wrap/towels. Monitor fish constantly.

                                                                                                                        Kelly
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9826 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: help
                                                                                                                        Rob  you mentioned earlier you had an oily film on your tank.

                                                                                                                        Have you done any house cleaning lately ( spring cleaning), painted anything. Reason i ask is because a lot of people don't think about there fish tank when they start doing housework, or painting. The fumes from these things will collect ontop of the water and slowly disperse into the water.

                                                                                                                        The other thing I can think of for the oily film would be , frozen food. Do you feed frozen foods. Sometimes frozen shrimp and frozen mymphis has an oily substance to it.


                                                                                                                        If your fish is not showing any signs of infection I wouldn't treat the fish or the tank with any medications. It would be like taking cough syrup for a headache. Don't know what to treat for.

                                                                                                                        The best thing In my opinion would be to do a series of small water changes. 10% now, 10% in 6 hours, and 10% in 24 hours.

                                                                                                                        this hopefully will make your fish feel better, small changes are better as your Ram can be a little sensative to larger waterchanges. The waterchanges should also dilute or dissolve any chemicals trapped in the tank..

                                                                                                                        check the temperature, never know the heater might have got bumpbed up or down....

                                                                                                                        hope this helps

                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                        NE Indiana
                                                                                                                        USA




                                                                                                                        In a message dated 3/31/2005 11:46:36 AM US Eastern Standard Time, rhickey@... writes:



                                                                                                                        Hi Would someone be Able to give me some help please


                                                                                                                        My bolivian ram is sick and just gently resting on the bottom of the tank

                                                                                                                        seems to be gulping in water and out of his gills

                                                                                                                        Tank is fine and clean and cycled

                                                                                                                        No signs of anything ich or swimbladder or anything else that Comes to mind

                                                                                                                        Anyone help?

                                                                                                                        Cheers

                                                                                                                        Rob



                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9827 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: was RE: Question( bug bombs )
                                                                                                                        Val, either remove the fish from the room or apartment when using the bug bomb or cover the tank as best as you can. Block all the openings as best as you can. Remove the hang on back filter, heater and anything else sticking out of the tank. If possible place the hang on back filter into another tank( out of room, apartment)  to keep the bacteria alive and healthy.

                                                                                                                        Your fish should be able to easily go 24 hrs without any water movement or filteration. Just make sure the temp doesn't drop less then 70* F.


                                                                                                                        No watermovement will keep any chemicals trapped on top of the water if any do get into the tank.

                                                                                                                        When you come back, and uncover the tank take a wet washcloth and wipe down the top of the tank, glass and anything else that might be exposed to the bug bomb chemiclas, before opening the tank.

                                                                                                                        If there is a slight checmical residue ontop of the water take a paper towel and gently lay it ontop of the water. The oily film should be picked up by the towel.
                                                                                                                        Next do a 20% waterchange, hopefully this will keep your little fellas in the tank healthy and unexposed tot he chemicals. OH and turn off any airpumps.........

                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                        Indiana
                                                                                                                        USA



                                                                                                                        In a message dated 3/31/2005 11:47:05 AM US Eastern Standard Time, valbogert01@... writes:


                                                                                                                        Hey, Here is another one.. I have a moth problem at my apartment. I
                                                                                                                        need to get a bug bomb or something. What do I need to do with the
                                                                                                                        fish? I have another tank I could transfer them to if needed. Val


                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9828 From: Robert Hickey Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: help
                                                                                                                        Hi rob Thanks a million for you help
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        No housework or anything done lately
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Frozen Food yup I feed them some frozen shrimp etc. So is it normal? what should i do?
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Ah right just had a general tonic bottle in my hand so I will put that back,
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Yeh will Stick To the water changes For sure
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        I know rams are Sensitive to nitrite and I am having a problem at the moment with that so,
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Also the other ram is giving it a hard time so maybe that is not helping? See seems to sit mouth up with lower anal fin on the substrate and gulps
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Should I section off her side a little more for now?
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Also I have a heavy cleaner squad should I be cleaning the gravel more?
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Irish Rob
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Regards
                                                                                                                        Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Senior Technical Professional Engineer
                                                                                                                        Esat BT
                                                                                                                        Unit C, Dundrum Business Park
                                                                                                                        T +353 1 4328749
                                                                                                                        M +353 86 8061840
                                                                                                                        Email: rhickey@...
                                                                                                                        www.esatbt.com
                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:41 PM
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] help

                                                                                                                        Rob  you mentioned earlier you had an oily film on your tank.

                                                                                                                        Have you done any house cleaning lately ( spring cleaning), painted anything. Reason i ask is because a lot of people don't think about there fish tank when they start doing housework, or painting. The fumes from these things will collect ontop of the water and slowly disperse into the water.

                                                                                                                        The other thing I can think of for the oily film would be , frozen food. Do you feed frozen foods. Sometimes frozen shrimp and frozen mymphis has an oily substance to it.


                                                                                                                        If your fish is not showing any signs of infection I wouldn't treat the fish or the tank with any medications. It would be like taking cough syrup for a headache. Don't know what to treat for.

                                                                                                                        The best thing In my opinion would be to do a series of small water changes. 10% now, 10% in 6 hours, and 10% in 24 hours.

                                                                                                                        this hopefully will make your fish feel better, small changes are better as your Ram can be a little sensative to larger waterchanges. The waterchanges should also dilute or dissolve any chemicals trapped in the tank..

                                                                                                                        check the temperature, never know the heater might have got bumpbed up or down....

                                                                                                                        hope this helps

                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                        NE Indiana
                                                                                                                        USA




                                                                                                                        In a message dated 3/31/2005 11:46:36 AM US Eastern Standard Time, rhickey@... writes:



                                                                                                                        Hi Would someone be Able to give me some help please


                                                                                                                        My bolivian ram is sick and just gently resting on the bottom of the tank

                                                                                                                        seems to be gulping in water and out of his gills

                                                                                                                        Tank is fine and clean and cycled

                                                                                                                        No signs of anything ich or swimbladder or anything else that Comes to mind

                                                                                                                        Anyone help?

                                                                                                                        Cheers

                                                                                                                        Rob





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9829 From: valbogert01 Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: was RE: Question( bug bombs )
                                                                                                                        Thanks for the advice. I have be hesitant to let the apartment manager
                                                                                                                        deal with since they never let you know in advance. These are my fish:
                                                                                                                        2 oto's
                                                                                                                        3 white Clouds
                                                                                                                        2 Danios
                                                                                                                        2 Endlers/Guppy mix

                                                                                                                        I am thinking about totally getting them out of the apartment. Is
                                                                                                                        there an easy way to do this without shocking them? They are in a 10
                                                                                                                        gal
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9830 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Question( bug bombs )
                                                                                                                        Since your fish are small, and don't have any sharp long spines  I'd suggest using a 5 gallon bucket with 2-3 inches of tank water in the bottom of it. Your fish should be fine in the bucket for 24 hrs or longer. You can add more water and place an airstone in the tank if you'd don't think that will be enough water..
                                                                                                                        Just cover bucket so no animals can get into it.
                                                                                                                        Make sure to keep the bucket in a warm place as the temp will decrease if let by the window or outside..

                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                        Indiana
                                                                                                                        USA

                                                                                                                        In a message dated 3/31/2005 1:03:19 PM US Eastern Standard Time, valbogert01@... writes:


                                                                                                                        I am thinking about totally getting them out of the apartment. Is
                                                                                                                        there an easy way to do this without shocking them? They are in a 10
                                                                                                                        gal


                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9831 From: ruth eubanks Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Need a GOOD website
                                                                                                                        Thanks Rob for the sites, I'm going there right now to check them out!
                                                                                                                                                                                       Thanks again,
                                                                                                                                                                                            Ruth  

                                                                                                                        FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                        http://www.guppies.com

                                                                                                                        http://livebearers.org

                                                                                                                        http://www.endlersr.us/

                                                                                                                        3 links you will find very helpful and full of information

                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                        NE Indiana
                                                                                                                        USA

                                                                                                                        In a message dated 3/31/2005 11:39:54 AM US Eastern Standard Time, whatsdiggin@... writes:


                                                                                                                        Hello everyone does anyone know of a good website for guppies and
                                                                                                                        fry, that give alots of how to's, and infor.
                                                                                                                        Well thanks alot and I hope everyone has a Great Day!!!!
                                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                                                   Ruth            




                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Messenger
                                                                                                                        Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun.

                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9832 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: help
                                                                                                                        Irish Rob

                                                                                                                        the waterchanges should help the nitrites.
                                                                                                                        If the one is getting picked on providing more hiding places or section her side off further. Sometimes putting a few items in between the fish will help. If they can not see each other they forget that the other is there.

                                                                                                                        Heavy cleaner squad?  I have not read all your threads, so I am not sure what you mean by this. No matter what you have in your tank cleaning of the substrate/gravel should be done on a regular basis.
                                                                                                                        I have a lot fo decoration in my tank, and driftwood so cleaning 1/2 my tank at a time allows me to move things around a little bit and get under them. I actually vaccum 1/2 my gravel one week, and the other half the next week, when do waterchanges.
                                                                                                                        I do 20% waterchanges every week usually on Fridays.


                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                        Indiana
                                                                                                                        USA





                                                                                                                        In a message dated 3/31/2005 1:06:25 PM US Eastern Standard Time, rhickey@... writes:


                                                                                                                        I know rams are Sensitive to nitrite and I am having a problem at the moment with that so,


                                                                                                                        Also the other ram is giving it a hard time so maybe that is not helping? See seems to sit mouth up with lower anal fin on the substrate and gulps

                                                                                                                        Should I section off her side a little more for now?

                                                                                                                        Also I have a heavy cleaner squad should I be cleaning the gravel more?


                                                                                                                        Irish Rob


                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9833 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: CO2 System seems to be working nicely!!
                                                                                                                        I'm pleased to report that in it's first week, the CO2 system seems to be making a tremendously big difference. Plants appear to be turning a deeper, richer green. On particular plant (name unknown) I swear is growing about a 1/2 inch per day. Already to top of tank and headed to the front of the tank now. Amazon Swords are looking much healthier. Life is good! :)
                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                        Alan
                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                        http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                        -----
                                                                                                                        *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                                                                        *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
                                                                                                                        *** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening list called "OutGardening".
                                                                                                                        *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your address.
                                                                                                                        *** Check them out at:

                                                                                                                        http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/listinfo/

                                                                                                                        ***** I'd like to, but last time I went I never came back..
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9834 From: Robert Hickey Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: help
                                                                                                                        Rob Cheers dude,
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Have seperated them more now and done a water change
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Setup is the start of a biotope south american
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Cleaners 2 drawf suckers
                                                                                                                        3 Singapore shrimp
                                                                                                                        and then there are the 2 rams, that seem to be alway eating or picking at the substrate
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        And 7 small neon tetras its a 20 gallon tank,with lots of drift wood and some plants more on the way.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Right I think I have being neglecting the gravel to much so will clean now,
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Thanks Rob
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Irish Rob
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Regards
                                                                                                                        Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Senior Technical Professional Engineer
                                                                                                                        Esat BT
                                                                                                                        Unit C, Dundrum Business Park
                                                                                                                        T +353 1 4328749
                                                                                                                        M +353 86 8061840
                                                                                                                        Email: rhickey@...
                                                                                                                        www.esatbt.com
                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:25 PM
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] help

                                                                                                                        Irish Rob

                                                                                                                        the waterchanges should help the nitrites.
                                                                                                                        If the one is getting picked on providing more hiding places or section her side off further. Sometimes putting a few items in between the fish will help. If they can not see each other they forget that the other is there.

                                                                                                                        Heavy cleaner squad?  I have not read all your threads, so I am not sure what you mean by this. No matter what you have in your tank cleaning of the substrate/gravel should be done on a regular basis.
                                                                                                                        I have a lot fo decoration in my tank, and driftwood so cleaning 1/2 my tank at a time allows me to move things around a little bit and get under them. I actually vaccum 1/2 my gravel one week, and the other half the next week, when do waterchanges.
                                                                                                                        I do 20% waterchanges every week usually on Fridays.


                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                        Indiana
                                                                                                                        USA





                                                                                                                        In a message dated 3/31/2005 1:06:25 PM US Eastern Standard Time, rhickey@... writes:


                                                                                                                        I know rams are Sensitive to nitrite and I am having a problem at the moment with that so,


                                                                                                                        Also the other ram is giving it a hard time so maybe that is not helping? See seems to sit mouth up with lower anal fin on the substrate and gulps

                                                                                                                        Should I section off her side a little more for now?

                                                                                                                        Also I have a heavy cleaner squad should I be cleaning the gravel more?


                                                                                                                        Irish Rob




                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9835 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                        Guys,

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        I have been thinking about a theory and need some help validating it:

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        We all know that CO2 is well soluble in water. We try to push CO2 in the water for the plants to be able to take. Now the plants do not really care how much ppm CO2 we push in as long as they have it available to them all the time? Rite?

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Atmosphere has 0.3% CO2 so Ideally if we have a waterfall, the amount of CO2 dissolved in the water will also be 0.3% of all dissolved gasses? Osmotic pressure or something similar to maintain same concentration in both mediums? Does this defy any science? Since we can have a bit of CO2 in the water and have the capability to replenish this small amount, is this quantity enough for plants or not? What happens in streams in rivers? I find it difficult to digest the idea of rotting leaves and bacterial processes in the soil creating enough CO2 that plants need, rather, atmospheric dissolved CO2 as the water flows sounds more reasonable.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        So if all of the above is true, is it possible that we could have a lush planted medium – high light tank with a couple of spraybars that keep replenishing the 0.3% CO2 back in the water so the plants never really starve of the CO2? I am sure if atmospheric CO2 is dissolved in the water at small quantities, the plants will really never starve.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Feedback appreciated J

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9836 From: cold_one1966 Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: thanks for the invite
                                                                                                                        Hi all, thanks for the invite. I wanted to say hello, i looked at all
                                                                                                                        the pictures of tanks and fish, they are beautiful. looks like a nice
                                                                                                                        group. i am looking forward to reading all the post.

                                                                                                                        Thanks again
                                                                                                                        CO
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9837 From: MG Schulz Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: veiltail mollies
                                                                                                                        I am new to the group. and have been trying for several years to produce veiltail mollies. I am finally getting close. They were produced by Dr Jo Ann Norton in Hawaii. I have been unable to find anyone who had any of her line, so I have had to start from the beginning. It is working. Finding breeding stock for tyhis purpose has been difficule. These will be mollies that have the delta tails that the delta tail guppies have. I remember when they first came out. They could hardly carry the weight. If anyone has any stock that may be beneficial please email me at gerard94114@...


                                                                                                                        Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9838 From: lang1988 Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Chicagoland GWASOC General Meeting - Guests Welcome
                                                                                                                        Green Water Aquarist Society of Chicagoland

                                                                                                                        April 1, 2005

                                                                                                                        GWASOC General Meeting
                                                                                                                        Alsip Village Hall
                                                                                                                        4500 W 123rd St, Alsip, IL 60803-2521
                                                                                                                        7:30pm
                                                                                                                        Bowl Show Class 1: Female Swords (Domestic)
                                                                                                                        Bowl Show Class 2: Female Guppies (Domestic)
                                                                                                                        Speaker: Table discussions
                                                                                                                        Mini Auctions
                                                                                                                        Raffle
                                                                                                                        Guest are welcome!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9839 From: Jade Evita Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        Sorry in advance for the long intro. I posted this in another group
                                                                                                                        as well. I just joined the group, when I was looking on line for set-
                                                                                                                        up advice. I am not a beginner as it were with having fish tanks over
                                                                                                                        the years but this time I really want to do it right. It seems in
                                                                                                                        the past I have been quilty as I am sure most are of setting up the
                                                                                                                        tank and going in blindly hoping for the best. I have always had a
                                                                                                                        great love for the hobbie along with the best of intentions, yet of
                                                                                                                        course problems resulted. About five years ago we bought my oldest
                                                                                                                        daughter a 20 gallon set-up. It measures 24" long and 16" deep.
                                                                                                                        Being clueless we when got it I went to the local pet shop...(which
                                                                                                                        has since gone out of business), for advice on how to get started.
                                                                                                                        He gave us half advice and not much support. That is why I figured a
                                                                                                                        group like this was juist what I need. Anyway he told us in order to
                                                                                                                        set up the tank and get the water ready we needed to put some hardy
                                                                                                                        fish in it and sold us about 6 gold-fish, (feeders I might add). The
                                                                                                                        first time we tried they all died, almost right away. We didn't know
                                                                                                                        why. I live out of the city and we figured it was our water,
                                                                                                                        although we didn't test it. We started over with his filter water
                                                                                                                        and new goldfish and things seemed to be fine. The girls got
                                                                                                                        attached to the gold-fish and since they were feeders they just
                                                                                                                        didn't want to bring them back. We decided to keep them. We had
                                                                                                                        them about 4 years fine but with a few deaths along the way. But not
                                                                                                                        to get the post too long about 5 months ago suddenly they all died.
                                                                                                                        We left the tank empty the last few months. About two weeks ago we
                                                                                                                        thought of trying again. We wanted to do a community tank and breed
                                                                                                                        small guppies and mollies and what not. I had thought having another
                                                                                                                        larger tank would be great in the future so we could use the 20
                                                                                                                        gallon as a nursery for the babies to grow. I was talking at work
                                                                                                                        and a lady I work at had one she had used about a year ago before she
                                                                                                                        got a larger tank. It is a 30 gallon 36" x 16". It came with
                                                                                                                        everything and is like new for only 30.00. I felt like I was
                                                                                                                        stealing it.

                                                                                                                        Anyway This time I want to do it right. I found your site and
                                                                                                                        reading all the posts I can have discovered this hobbie is pure
                                                                                                                        science. I might add I was not the best at science. I really need
                                                                                                                        advice on starting out right. I was thinking of starting out by
                                                                                                                        getting a water filter for my kitchen sink, so I can use my own water
                                                                                                                        instid of driving miles to town with tons of jugs. Does anyone else
                                                                                                                        have water filters on their home sinks? I want to also set up both
                                                                                                                        tanks with water. I would like advice on that as well. I don't
                                                                                                                        really understand this cycling thing. This time I want to use fish
                                                                                                                        other than gold-fish, that we could keep in the tank. Can I use
                                                                                                                        black mollies or something like them? I was thinking of having
                                                                                                                        mollies, guppies, neons, maybe some of those sucker catfish. I look
                                                                                                                        forward to any and all advice to get me started right this time.
                                                                                                                        Both tanks are clean and ready for the next step....Water. Thanks in
                                                                                                                        advance. Evita
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9840 From: Kyle Osterholt Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Betta question....re: almond leaf
                                                                                                                        the water turns brown from the tanins in the leaf being released into the water.  The same thing happens with Peat Moss or driftwood.  This is a normal condition and desireable in most cases.  Be careful doing water changes that you don't change the PH drastically.  the reason indian almond leaf's are used is to lower the PH and if you're changing the water with a large PH swing you can harm the fish.  Kyle

                                                                                                                        pam phetteplace <pamphetteplace@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        I have read that indian almond leaves are beneficial and enjoyable for bettas.  I have been using them and noticed they tend to make the water look brown and dirty. I know my boy likes to hang out under his, which I change on a weekly basis.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                         Any experience/ opinion  on these leaves would be appreciated.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        happy fishkeeping
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Pam

                                                                                                                        AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9841 From: MG Schulz Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi I'm Back
                                                                                                                        I raise mollies and Swords. Most live bearers do great with one male to three females I would suggest agroup of about ten or so different color livebearers not pairs. 10 tiger barbs. the tiger barbs look cool swimming in a school and do best in a school. when they are only a couple they will chase other fish. another selection would be at least but closer to te neon tetras. They are another fish that does good in schools. a couple dojo loaches would do great for fun bottom feeders. They are fun. I have had them actually come up and sit in my hand.. You always have to have some type of bottom feeder  to clean the tank. maybe a couple angelfish would do they will set up their on territory. Get young ones and they will adjust to the other species well.  One male betta only  to add some color looks good.gerard94114@...

                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9842 From: robdar4609 Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Angry Angel Fish
                                                                                                                        Hello - I have 4 good sized Angel fish in my 29-gallon tank, they have
                                                                                                                        all been in there since they were babies so they have gotten
                                                                                                                        along...but I had to move the tank recently and now one of my Angels
                                                                                                                        is really agrivated (a week after I moved the tank)...he/she has
                                                                                                                        cornered 2 of the other angle and attacks them when they try to eat...

                                                                                                                        Will this fish calm down over time or should I consider moving the
                                                                                                                        fish?

                                                                                                                        thanks
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9843 From: wendie Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
                                                                                                                        Are there eggs anywhere?  Sounds like it.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        From: robdar4609 [mailto:robdar4609@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:48 PM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Angry Angel Fish


                                                                                                                        Hello - I have 4 good sized Angel fish in my 29-gallon tank, they have
                                                                                                                        all been in there since they were babies so they have gotten
                                                                                                                        along...but I had to move the tank recently and now one of my Angels
                                                                                                                        is really agrivated (a week after I moved the tank)...he/she has
                                                                                                                        cornered 2 of the other angle and attacks them when they try to eat...

                                                                                                                        Will this fish calm down over time or should I consider moving the
                                                                                                                        fish? 

                                                                                                                        thanks





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9844 From: Nan Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: CO2 ?
                                                                                                                        Ok, I get somewhat why the CO2 is being added, I get that it is
                                                                                                                        suppossed to (and probably does) improve your tank plants, but now my
                                                                                                                        big question is, how does it work? I mean how does the CO2 cannister
                                                                                                                        work? I was looking on Foster and Smith at the one they have where
                                                                                                                        fermentation is neccessary to make it work, but what exactly does it
                                                                                                                        do? Does it shoot CO2 into your water for your plants? Is there a
                                                                                                                        tube like an airhose that you run down into the gravel for the plants?
                                                                                                                        I know it is probably a stupid question, but so far I have found no
                                                                                                                        answers on the web.

                                                                                                                        Thanks for your help!

                                                                                                                        ~nan and crew~
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9845 From: Rachel Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        gosh i would be so happy if i could have a big setup.
                                                                                                                        theonly thing i can really say to help is that... well... i dont buy
                                                                                                                        water. i use it from the pipes. in my dorm room bathroom. in the
                                                                                                                        sink. yes thats right. in new orleans. i use ph down, and prime. i
                                                                                                                        also own ph indicator solution, ph up, ph decreaser, start right,
                                                                                                                        algae fix, algae destroyer and florapride. oh the joy. i would be so
                                                                                                                        happy id be silly-happy if i could get a 20 gal setup for my black
                                                                                                                        moore goldfish.

                                                                                                                        my prime contains 100 ml and treats 1000 US gallons. one capful for
                                                                                                                        50 gallons.
                                                                                                                        my ph down has 37 ml eh i dont like math.
                                                                                                                        my ph decreaser has 59 ml and was the same price.
                                                                                                                        ph down and decreaser are 2 different products. woooo.

                                                                                                                        i use 1/4th if that of a capful of prime and 26-28 drops of ph down
                                                                                                                        in a one gallon container (old water jug... WATER CONTAINER not
                                                                                                                        milk. i always keep 3 fulll and treated in case of emergencys. i
                                                                                                                        started using prime instead of start right because it does the same
                                                                                                                        and more. but is more expensive. important: it removes AMMONIA, and
                                                                                                                        detoxifies NITRITE AND NITRATE. as i understand thoes things are not
                                                                                                                        too good for our loved wet pets. start right and prime removes
                                                                                                                        chlorine and chloramine. start right treats 120 gallons. obviously
                                                                                                                        prime is better, especially when your doing a big setup.

                                                                                                                        read it. read anything and everything you can. especially the backs
                                                                                                                        of the bottles!

                                                                                                                        big aquarium = big filter. power filters are BEAUTIFUL. mine adjusts
                                                                                                                        to powerful flow or gentle flow. carbon filters to go inside your
                                                                                                                        powerfilter. buying in bulk is good.

                                                                                                                        my angelfish used to run my tetras into the filter. so i sold him.
                                                                                                                        and got more tetras.

                                                                                                                        be careful. and take your time. when you set up your aquarium, take
                                                                                                                        a sample of water to your closest petstore ( i know petco does it)
                                                                                                                        the best thing to do is buy the strips. the indicator strips.
                                                                                                                        expensive yes but there are many of them and all you have to do (to
                                                                                                                        my understanding) is dip it in the tank.

                                                                                                                        i enjoy using pro-v decorative waste absorbing crystals. its a
                                                                                                                        thought. theyre pretty. its fort smaller setups. and you have to
                                                                                                                        change it every 30days.

                                                                                                                        i have a container full of fish stuff. gravel cleaner, containers,
                                                                                                                        extra food. speaking of food i have shrimp pellets, tetra min, betta
                                                                                                                        min, hikaru bloodworms and betta food, goldfish flakes too. if i had
                                                                                                                        freezer space id get me some frozen earth worms.

                                                                                                                        definantly love tetras. hardy beauties they are. when you get a
                                                                                                                        fish, especially if its just a certain kind or group. RESEARCH. i
                                                                                                                        keep my tetras at a ph of 6. they love it like that.

                                                                                                                        generally speaking its better if your tank is wide and short. better
                                                                                                                        oxygen exchange. which is pretty important.

                                                                                                                        ive heard guppys are messy. had 2 myself for a bit. they died quick
                                                                                                                        though. not sure why.

                                                                                                                        wash ur gravel good. and i mean GOOD.

                                                                                                                        plants are a wonderful addition. real plants.

                                                                                                                        partial water changes are very good for your fish. i think ud b good
                                                                                                                        maybe a few gallons every other week. stir up the gravel some n let
                                                                                                                        the power filter kick in. check the water conditions. esp b4 puttin
                                                                                                                        in new fish.

                                                                                                                        i think ive blathered on enough... for now.

                                                                                                                        good luck.


                                                                                                                        Rachel


                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jade Evita" <evitabug@y...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Sorry in advance for the long intro. I posted this in another
                                                                                                                        group
                                                                                                                        > as well. I just joined the group, when I was looking on line for
                                                                                                                        set-
                                                                                                                        > up advice. I am not a beginner as it were with having fish tanks
                                                                                                                        over
                                                                                                                        > the years but this time I really want to do it right. It seems in
                                                                                                                        > the past I have been quilty as I am sure most are of setting up
                                                                                                                        the
                                                                                                                        > tank and going in blindly hoping for the best. I have always had
                                                                                                                        a
                                                                                                                        > great love for the hobbie along with the best of intentions, yet
                                                                                                                        of
                                                                                                                        > course problems resulted. About five years ago we bought my
                                                                                                                        oldest
                                                                                                                        > daughter a 20 gallon set-up. It measures 24" long and 16" deep.
                                                                                                                        > Being clueless we when got it I went to the local pet shop...
                                                                                                                        (which
                                                                                                                        > has since gone out of business), for advice on how to get
                                                                                                                        started.
                                                                                                                        > He gave us half advice and not much support. That is why I
                                                                                                                        figured a
                                                                                                                        > group like this was juist what I need. Anyway he told us in order
                                                                                                                        to
                                                                                                                        > set up the tank and get the water ready we needed to put some
                                                                                                                        hardy
                                                                                                                        > fish in it and sold us about 6 gold-fish, (feeders I might add).
                                                                                                                        The
                                                                                                                        > first time we tried they all died, almost right away. We didn't
                                                                                                                        know
                                                                                                                        > why. I live out of the city and we figured it was our water,
                                                                                                                        > although we didn't test it. We started over with his filter water
                                                                                                                        > and new goldfish and things seemed to be fine. The girls got
                                                                                                                        > attached to the gold-fish and since they were feeders they just
                                                                                                                        > didn't want to bring them back. We decided to keep them. We had
                                                                                                                        > them about 4 years fine but with a few deaths along the way. But
                                                                                                                        not
                                                                                                                        > to get the post too long about 5 months ago suddenly they all
                                                                                                                        died.
                                                                                                                        > We left the tank empty the last few months. About two weeks ago
                                                                                                                        we
                                                                                                                        > thought of trying again. We wanted to do a community tank and
                                                                                                                        breed
                                                                                                                        > small guppies and mollies and what not. I had thought having
                                                                                                                        another
                                                                                                                        > larger tank would be great in the future so we could use the 20
                                                                                                                        > gallon as a nursery for the babies to grow. I was talking at work
                                                                                                                        > and a lady I work at had one she had used about a year ago before
                                                                                                                        she
                                                                                                                        > got a larger tank. It is a 30 gallon 36" x 16". It came with
                                                                                                                        > everything and is like new for only 30.00. I felt like I was
                                                                                                                        > stealing it.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Anyway This time I want to do it right. I found your site and
                                                                                                                        > reading all the posts I can have discovered this hobbie is pure
                                                                                                                        > science. I might add I was not the best at science. I really
                                                                                                                        need
                                                                                                                        > advice on starting out right. I was thinking of starting out by
                                                                                                                        > getting a water filter for my kitchen sink, so I can use my own
                                                                                                                        water
                                                                                                                        > instid of driving miles to town with tons of jugs. Does anyone
                                                                                                                        else
                                                                                                                        > have water filters on their home sinks? I want to also set up
                                                                                                                        both
                                                                                                                        > tanks with water. I would like advice on that as well. I don't
                                                                                                                        > really understand this cycling thing. This time I want to use
                                                                                                                        fish
                                                                                                                        > other than gold-fish, that we could keep in the tank. Can I use
                                                                                                                        > black mollies or something like them? I was thinking of having
                                                                                                                        > mollies, guppies, neons, maybe some of those sucker catfish. I
                                                                                                                        look
                                                                                                                        > forward to any and all advice to get me started right this time.
                                                                                                                        > Both tanks are clean and ready for the next step....Water. Thanks
                                                                                                                        in
                                                                                                                        > advance. Evita
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9846 From: Antonios Date: 3/31/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Tank of the month is now online
                                                                                                                        Check out April's TOTM on reefgossip.com
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9847 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish

                                                                                                                        Looks like one of them has matured in to a male and is either looking for a partner or has found a partner. Try and see if he gets along well with other angels.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        29 gallon tank will be really too small for any mature male angel who can see other angels. The only solution is to move the other out in another tank or give them away to save their lives. Angels are cichlids and once they spawn, they will protect the eggs and the spawning site killing any other angel that tries to approach. I have a breeding pair in a 60 gallon tank and I cannot have any other angel in that tank except the breeding pair.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                        From: robdar4609 [mailto:robdar4609@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: 01 April 2005 00:48
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Angry Angel Fish

                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                        Hello - I have 4 good sized Angel fish in my 29-gallon tank, they have
                                                                                                                        all been in there since they were babies so they have gotten
                                                                                                                        along...but I had to move the tank recently and now one of my Angels
                                                                                                                        is really agrivated (a week after I moved the tank)...he/she has
                                                                                                                        cornered 2 of the other angle and attacks them when they try to eat...

                                                                                                                        Will this fish calm down over time or should I consider moving the
                                                                                                                        fish? 

                                                                                                                        thanks





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9848 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: CO2 ?

                                                                                                                        Nan,

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Co2 is needed for plants to breath during the day. The CO2 fermentation canister works in a similar ay as brewing beer. Sugar is converted into alcohol by yeast and one of the abundant waste products for this is CO2. This CO2 is directed using a special airline (not a normal airline as the acidic nature of CO2 can make standard silicone airlines brittle) into the tank and into a diffuser. The purpose of a diffuser is to diffuse/dissolve CO2 in the water so it can be utilized by the plants. Plants can consume only this dissolved available CO2. Plants do not consume CO2 from the gravel but instead the leaves use it up during photosynthesis.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        There are many types of diffusers, simplest is a powerhead churning the CO2 bubble into 1000s of smaller bubbles that dissolve to a chamber in which a bubble travels to the top very slowly dissolving itself in the process to power driven proper diffusers that can dissolve 100% of the CO2 produced.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                        From: Nan [mailto:ntalb00@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: 01 April 2005 01:38
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 ?

                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                        Ok, I get somewhat why the CO2 is being added, I get that it is
                                                                                                                        suppossed to (and probably does) improve your tank plants, but now my
                                                                                                                        big question is, how does it work?  I mean how does the CO2 cannister
                                                                                                                        work?  I was looking on Foster and Smith at the one they have where
                                                                                                                        fermentation is neccessary to make it work, but what exactly does it
                                                                                                                        do?  Does it shoot CO2 into your water for your plants?  Is there a
                                                                                                                        tube like an airhose that you run down into the gravel for the plants?
                                                                                                                        I know it is probably a stupid question, but so far I have found no
                                                                                                                        answers on the web.

                                                                                                                        Thanks for your help!

                                                                                                                        ~nan and crew~





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9849 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!
                                                                                                                        I went down to my LFS last weekend complaining about my guppies
                                                                                                                        attacking/eating tails of every thing (there the bossiest thing in the
                                                                                                                        tank! also the smallest)

                                                                                                                        anyways the guy said "its the slim coating they are eating" and suggest
                                                                                                                        some Algae Discs, which of couse sounded silly to me but i tried it any
                                                                                                                        ways and altho its only been a couple days (almost a week) but i think
                                                                                                                        its working.

                                                                                                                        I got 'Wardley Algae Discs' brand if its of any help.

                                                                                                                        Also i got some Fin Rot Remedy chemicals and have dosed the tank with
                                                                                                                        thathat too which may also help with shrinking fins. My smallest tiger
                                                                                                                        barb now has much much larger fins since its got better.

                                                                                                                        Nick
                                                                                                                        Brisbane Australia

                                                                                                                        (Sick fish season over here at the moment)



                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bettamuse" <bettamuse@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hi Rachel,
                                                                                                                        > I've seen this a lot and it is nearly always in the Halfmoon fish
                                                                                                                        > that have a large tail volume. We've tried everything to stop
                                                                                                                        > bettas doing this and it makes no difference what we do. Some fish do
                                                                                                                        > it and some don't
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9850 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        Rachel,

                                                                                                                        My first reaction is: you are over complicating things. If you want
                                                                                                                        happier, healthier fish and less work for yourself, do the following for
                                                                                                                        your 20 gallon tank:

                                                                                                                        Get a 5 gallon pail from your local hardware store (home depot, whatever).
                                                                                                                        Wash it out and use it for water changes. Also get a small gravel
                                                                                                                        vaccuum with about 6' of hose if you don't already have one. They make
                                                                                                                        ones with clips to hold the hose onto the bucket.

                                                                                                                        Once per week, turn off the filter and heater and vaccuum the gravel as
                                                                                                                        you siphon out about 4-5 gallons of water into the bucket.

                                                                                                                        Dump the bucket and refill it with tapwater about the same temperature as
                                                                                                                        the water you took out. Add 1/2 a capful of prime to the bucket as you
                                                                                                                        fill it, or however much is needed for 5 gallons (some dechlorinators are
                                                                                                                        different strengths).

                                                                                                                        Refill the tank from the bucket and turn the filter and heater back on.

                                                                                                                        Once per month, clean your filter and either replace the filter
                                                                                                                        bag/sponge/etc. or clean it in the bucket of dirty water that you took out
                                                                                                                        of the tank (NOT WITH TAPWATER). If you use carbon, change your carbon at
                                                                                                                        this time (it cannot be reused).



                                                                                                                        Forget the PH UP and PH DOWN and de-amonia and de-nitrate compounds. Your
                                                                                                                        tapwater is somewhere between PH 6.5 and 8. MOST fish will do well in
                                                                                                                        this range and will have no problem adapting to the PH.

                                                                                                                        Amonia (which is toxic at PH 7) is broken down by bacteria living on the
                                                                                                                        surfaces in your tank and in your filter. It is broken down into Nitrite
                                                                                                                        (which is highly toxic at PH 7). Other bacteria break down the Nitrite
                                                                                                                        into Nitrate (which is only mildly toxic). This is called the Nitrogen
                                                                                                                        Cycle. Frequent water changes dilute the levels of nitrate and keep it
                                                                                                                        down to acceptable levels. "The solution to polution is dilution." By
                                                                                                                        performing a 25% water change weekly, you are removing 1/4 of the nitrate
                                                                                                                        each week. As Nitrate is a fertilizer, you will also be removing 1/4 of
                                                                                                                        the food for the algae (thus starving it out). Plants in the tank also
                                                                                                                        consume Nitrate, so they will also help starve out the algae.

                                                                                                                        Forget chemical means to eliminate amonia, nitrite and nitrate. They are
                                                                                                                        expensive and they don't work well. The stores selling them to you have a
                                                                                                                        financial interest in locking you into a dose, dose, dose regimen. The
                                                                                                                        ONLY chemical that you need is a dechlorinator, and that is because your
                                                                                                                        municipal water has had either Chlorine or Chloramine added to reduce
                                                                                                                        bacteria (that can make you sick). These compounds, unless treated with a
                                                                                                                        dechlorinator, will kill the Nitrogen-cycle bacteria in your tank.

                                                                                                                        Prime does not "removes AMMONIA, and detoxifies NITRITE AND NITRATE". It
                                                                                                                        detoxifies ammonia and nitrite by chemically altering them. They are
                                                                                                                        still in the tank, they are just less harmful. Nitrate is like smog. It
                                                                                                                        isn't really harmful until it gets very bad, but even moderate levels are
                                                                                                                        going to be bad for your fish's health.

                                                                                                                        You do not need to keep reserve water. You can make it any time in a few
                                                                                                                        minutes. If the bucket doesn't fit under the faucet, use the tub or
                                                                                                                        shower to fill it.

                                                                                                                        Save your money, save time and you will be rewarded with healthier fish.



                                                                                                                        BTW, some fish (african cichlids, Discus, etc.) will do better with higher
                                                                                                                        or lower PH and harder or softer water, but most tropical fish and
                                                                                                                        semi-tropical (your goldfish) are fine with plain tapwater.





                                                                                                                        Rachel said:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > gosh i would be so happy if i could have a big setup.
                                                                                                                        > theonly thing i can really say to help is that... well... i dont buy
                                                                                                                        > water. i use it from the pipes. in my dorm room bathroom. in the
                                                                                                                        > sink. yes thats right. in new orleans. i use ph down, and prime. i
                                                                                                                        > also own ph indicator solution, ph up, ph decreaser, start right,
                                                                                                                        > algae fix, algae destroyer and florapride. oh the joy. i would be so
                                                                                                                        > happy id be silly-happy if i could get a 20 gal setup for my black
                                                                                                                        > moore goldfish.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > my prime contains 100 ml and treats 1000 US gallons. one capful for
                                                                                                                        > 50 gallons.
                                                                                                                        > my ph down has 37 ml eh i dont like math.
                                                                                                                        > my ph decreaser has 59 ml and was the same price.
                                                                                                                        > ph down and decreaser are 2 different products. woooo.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > i use 1/4th if that of a capful of prime and 26-28 drops of ph down
                                                                                                                        > in a one gallon container (old water jug... WATER CONTAINER not
                                                                                                                        > milk. i always keep 3 fulll and treated in case of emergencys. i
                                                                                                                        > started using prime instead of start right because it does the same
                                                                                                                        > and more. but is more expensive. important: it removes AMMONIA, and
                                                                                                                        > detoxifies NITRITE AND NITRATE. as i understand thoes things are not
                                                                                                                        > too good for our loved wet pets. start right and prime removes
                                                                                                                        > chlorine and chloramine. start right treats 120 gallons. obviously
                                                                                                                        > prime is better, especially when your doing a big setup.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > read it. read anything and everything you can. especially the backs
                                                                                                                        > of the bottles!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > big aquarium = big filter. power filters are BEAUTIFUL. mine adjusts
                                                                                                                        > to powerful flow or gentle flow. carbon filters to go inside your
                                                                                                                        > powerfilter. buying in bulk is good.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > my angelfish used to run my tetras into the filter. so i sold him.
                                                                                                                        > and got more tetras.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > be careful. and take your time. when you set up your aquarium, take
                                                                                                                        > a sample of water to your closest petstore ( i know petco does it)
                                                                                                                        > the best thing to do is buy the strips. the indicator strips.
                                                                                                                        > expensive yes but there are many of them and all you have to do (to
                                                                                                                        > my understanding) is dip it in the tank.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > i enjoy using pro-v decorative waste absorbing crystals. its a
                                                                                                                        > thought. theyre pretty. its fort smaller setups. and you have to
                                                                                                                        > change it every 30days.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > i have a container full of fish stuff. gravel cleaner, containers,
                                                                                                                        > extra food. speaking of food i have shrimp pellets, tetra min, betta
                                                                                                                        > min, hikaru bloodworms and betta food, goldfish flakes too. if i had
                                                                                                                        > freezer space id get me some frozen earth worms.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > definantly love tetras. hardy beauties they are. when you get a
                                                                                                                        > fish, especially if its just a certain kind or group. RESEARCH. i
                                                                                                                        > keep my tetras at a ph of 6. they love it like that.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > generally speaking its better if your tank is wide and short. better
                                                                                                                        > oxygen exchange. which is pretty important.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > ive heard guppys are messy. had 2 myself for a bit. they died quick
                                                                                                                        > though. not sure why.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > wash ur gravel good. and i mean GOOD.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > plants are a wonderful addition. real plants.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > partial water changes are very good for your fish. i think ud b good
                                                                                                                        > maybe a few gallons every other week. stir up the gravel some n let
                                                                                                                        > the power filter kick in. check the water conditions. esp b4 puttin
                                                                                                                        > in new fish.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > i think ive blathered on enough... for now.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > good luck.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Rachel
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9851 From: Robert Hickey Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: help
                                                                                                                        Update:
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Well after a long night, Its Seems the poor darling didnt make it, so the ram passed away.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        :o(
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Leason learned about nitrites and gravel cleaning and rams, Rams dont like HIgh Nitrites going to Step up water changes to a couple of times a week until its settles
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        everyone else seems to be ok even the shrimps are coming out more, just found a exoskeleton of one , which I thought the other ram had a nice breakie, but just seen a very pink shrimp run under a peice of bogwood so,
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        He looks like zoidburk from futurama haha
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        All and Rob Thanks for all your help
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Irish rob
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Regards
                                                                                                                        Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Senior Technical Professional Engineer
                                                                                                                        Esat BT
                                                                                                                        Unit C, Dundrum Business Park
                                                                                                                        T +353 1 4328749
                                                                                                                        M +353 86 8061840
                                                                                                                        Email: rhickey@...
                                                                                                                        www.esatbt.com
                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:41 PM
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] help

                                                                                                                        Rob  you mentioned earlier you had an oily film on your tank.

                                                                                                                        Have you done any house cleaning lately ( spring cleaning), painted anything. Reason i ask is because a lot of people don't think about there fish tank when they start doing housework, or painting. The fumes from these things will collect ontop of the water and slowly disperse into the water.

                                                                                                                        The other thing I can think of for the oily film would be , frozen food. Do you feed frozen foods. Sometimes frozen shrimp and frozen mymphis has an oily substance to it.


                                                                                                                        If your fish is not showing any signs of infection I wouldn't treat the fish or the tank with any medications. It would be like taking cough syrup for a headache. Don't know what to treat for.

                                                                                                                        The best thing In my opinion would be to do a series of small water changes. 10% now, 10% in 6 hours, and 10% in 24 hours.

                                                                                                                        this hopefully will make your fish feel better, small changes are better as your Ram can be a little sensative to larger waterchanges. The waterchanges should also dilute or dissolve any chemicals trapped in the tank..

                                                                                                                        check the temperature, never know the heater might have got bumpbed up or down....

                                                                                                                        hope this helps

                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                        NE Indiana
                                                                                                                        USA




                                                                                                                        In a message dated 3/31/2005 11:46:36 AM US Eastern Standard Time, rhickey@... writes:



                                                                                                                        Hi Would someone be Able to give me some help please


                                                                                                                        My bolivian ram is sick and just gently resting on the bottom of the tank

                                                                                                                        seems to be gulping in water and out of his gills

                                                                                                                        Tank is fine and clean and cycled

                                                                                                                        No signs of anything ich or swimbladder or anything else that Comes to mind

                                                                                                                        Anyone help?

                                                                                                                        Cheers

                                                                                                                        Rob





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9852 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        Evita,

                                                                                                                        Feeders from the store are usually on their last legs and rarely live long.

                                                                                                                        Why did your fish die? I don't know, but some possible reasons are:
                                                                                                                        contamination (something dropped into the tank), infrequent water changes
                                                                                                                        (10-20% weekly minimum), rapid temperature change, heater failure (either
                                                                                                                        water too cold or electrocution), disease, etc.

                                                                                                                        Please follow my advice to Rachel about getting a 5 gallon bucket and
                                                                                                                        gravel vac and changing that much water weekly.

                                                                                                                        If you have municipal water, you probably only need to use a
                                                                                                                        dechlorinator. Test your PH and make sure it falls within about 6.5 to
                                                                                                                        8.0

                                                                                                                        Using bottled water or RO (reverse osmosis) or RO/DI water is not a good
                                                                                                                        idea for freshwater. The RO filter will remove trace elements in the
                                                                                                                        water that are needed. Carbon (charcoal) only filtration is fine. But
                                                                                                                        again, I don't think there's anything wrong with your water as it comes
                                                                                                                        out of the tap.

                                                                                                                        Remember that goldfish are not tropical fish and should not be kept in
                                                                                                                        your community tank. They require cooler water temperatures and will not
                                                                                                                        do well at the temperatures that a community tank requires.

                                                                                                                        Mollies, guppies, neons, tetras, etc. will do fine. Be careful with
                                                                                                                        "sucker catfish". The common pleco grows to 18" long. Other plecos grow
                                                                                                                        to only 6". I don't have a problem in my 220 gallon tank, but you would
                                                                                                                        in your 30 gallon. Research what you want to buy. Go to the store, find
                                                                                                                        the fish you like, write down the names (the scientific or latin names if
                                                                                                                        they're available) and go home and punch them into google
                                                                                                                        (http://www.google.com). Find out if they grow large, are agressive, etc.
                                                                                                                        BEFORE you buy them.

                                                                                                                        For example:
                                                                                                                        Red-Belly-Pacu's are cute and active fish. When full grown, they are 24"
                                                                                                                        long.

                                                                                                                        Oscars are lovely pets, but at 12", you'll need a 75 gallon tank for them.
                                                                                                                        Also, they'll eat smaller fish.




                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jade Evita" <evitabug@y...>
                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> Sorry in advance for the long intro. I posted this in another
                                                                                                                        > group
                                                                                                                        >> as well. I just joined the group, when I was looking on line for
                                                                                                                        > set-
                                                                                                                        >> up advice. I am not a beginner as it were with having fish tanks
                                                                                                                        > over
                                                                                                                        >> the years but this time I really want to do it right. It seems in
                                                                                                                        >> the past I have been quilty as I am sure most are of setting up
                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                        >> tank and going in blindly hoping for the best. I have always had
                                                                                                                        > a
                                                                                                                        >> great love for the hobbie along with the best of intentions, yet
                                                                                                                        > of
                                                                                                                        >> course problems resulted. About five years ago we bought my
                                                                                                                        > oldest
                                                                                                                        >> daughter a 20 gallon set-up. It measures 24" long and 16" deep.
                                                                                                                        >> Being clueless we when got it I went to the local pet shop...
                                                                                                                        > (which
                                                                                                                        >> has since gone out of business), for advice on how to get
                                                                                                                        > started.
                                                                                                                        >> He gave us half advice and not much support. That is why I
                                                                                                                        > figured a
                                                                                                                        >> group like this was juist what I need. Anyway he told us in order
                                                                                                                        > to
                                                                                                                        >> set up the tank and get the water ready we needed to put some
                                                                                                                        > hardy
                                                                                                                        >> fish in it and sold us about 6 gold-fish, (feeders I might add).
                                                                                                                        > The
                                                                                                                        >> first time we tried they all died, almost right away. We didn't
                                                                                                                        > know
                                                                                                                        >> why. I live out of the city and we figured it was our water,
                                                                                                                        >> although we didn't test it. We started over with his filter water
                                                                                                                        >> and new goldfish and things seemed to be fine. The girls got
                                                                                                                        >> attached to the gold-fish and since they were feeders they just
                                                                                                                        >> didn't want to bring them back. We decided to keep them. We had
                                                                                                                        >> them about 4 years fine but with a few deaths along the way. But
                                                                                                                        > not
                                                                                                                        >> to get the post too long about 5 months ago suddenly they all
                                                                                                                        > died.
                                                                                                                        >> We left the tank empty the last few months. About two weeks ago
                                                                                                                        > we
                                                                                                                        >> thought of trying again. We wanted to do a community tank and
                                                                                                                        > breed
                                                                                                                        >> small guppies and mollies and what not. I had thought having
                                                                                                                        > another
                                                                                                                        >> larger tank would be great in the future so we could use the 20
                                                                                                                        >> gallon as a nursery for the babies to grow. I was talking at work
                                                                                                                        >> and a lady I work at had one she had used about a year ago before
                                                                                                                        > she
                                                                                                                        >> got a larger tank. It is a 30 gallon 36" x 16". It came with
                                                                                                                        >> everything and is like new for only 30.00. I felt like I was
                                                                                                                        >> stealing it.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> Anyway This time I want to do it right. I found your site and
                                                                                                                        >> reading all the posts I can have discovered this hobbie is pure
                                                                                                                        >> science. I might add I was not the best at science. I really
                                                                                                                        > need
                                                                                                                        >> advice on starting out right. I was thinking of starting out by
                                                                                                                        >> getting a water filter for my kitchen sink, so I can use my own
                                                                                                                        > water
                                                                                                                        >> instid of driving miles to town with tons of jugs. Does anyone
                                                                                                                        > else
                                                                                                                        >> have water filters on their home sinks? I want to also set up
                                                                                                                        > both
                                                                                                                        >> tanks with water. I would like advice on that as well. I don't
                                                                                                                        >> really understand this cycling thing. This time I want to use
                                                                                                                        > fish
                                                                                                                        >> other than gold-fish, that we could keep in the tank. Can I use
                                                                                                                        >> black mollies or something like them? I was thinking of having
                                                                                                                        >> mollies, guppies, neons, maybe some of those sucker catfish. I
                                                                                                                        > look
                                                                                                                        >> forward to any and all advice to get me started right this time.
                                                                                                                        >> Both tanks are clean and ready for the next step....Water. Thanks
                                                                                                                        > in
                                                                                                                        >> advance. Evita
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9853 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: CO2 ?
                                                                                                                        I have a diffuser on mine, which dissolves the CO2 into smaller bits of air, and places them in the water. That's probably a horrible scientific explanation, but in answer to your question, on the output tube, I see no bubbles coming out. My setup is similar to the one on Foster and Smith, the only thing I don't have is the fancy PH machine they have that turns off the CO2 when the PH drops below a certain level. I did all my adjustments on the weekend so I could watch and make sure my PH didn't drop below that certain level.

                                                                                                                        My understanding of the process is. Aquarium plants use CO2 during the day for growth, and at night they release oxygen. It's reported by some that there is not enough CO2 in your aquarium water to really satisfy most aquarium plants. Thus the reason for adding more CO2 to the tank. Listen, I never would have believed it, till I tried it. The difference in one week is quite incredible. My passion is gardening, but having an aquarium has always been a hobby too, except I did take a break for several years and am just getting back into it. When I read some of the articles I read on adding CO2 to your tank, I found it intriguing. Just as in gardening I love to experiment with my plants and try new things, so with my aquarium plants. I wanted to try it. So far so good....hopefully next week I won't kill them all. I have pictures from when I first set up the new plants, which haven't done anything since I first put them in there, except get yellowish green. Since I've!
                                                                                                                        added the CO2, the seem to be getting their vim and vigor back. They are looking a darker, richer green, and as I mentioned in a previous post, One particular plant, of which I have 3 in the tank, I swear, I think it's growing 1/4" to 1/2" a day. It's probably not really growing that fast, time just seems to go by to fast, but it sure seems like it.

                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                        Alan
                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                        http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                        -----
                                                                                                                        *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                                                                        *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
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                                                                                                                        *** Check them out at:

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                                                                                                                        ***** I'd like to, but last time I went I never came back..


                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        From: Nan [mailto:ntalb00@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:38 PM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 ?




                                                                                                                        Ok, I get somewhat why the CO2 is being added, I get that it is
                                                                                                                        suppossed to (and probably does) improve your tank plants, but now my
                                                                                                                        big question is, how does it work? I mean how does the CO2 cannister
                                                                                                                        work? I was looking on Foster and Smith at the one they have where
                                                                                                                        fermentation is neccessary to make it work, but what exactly does it
                                                                                                                        do? Does it shoot CO2 into your water for your plants? Is there a
                                                                                                                        tube like an airhose that you run down into the gravel for the plants?
                                                                                                                        I know it is probably a stupid question, but so far I have found no
                                                                                                                        answers on the web.

                                                                                                                        Thanks for your help!

                                                                                                                        ~nan and crew~






                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks . Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9854 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: CO2 ?
                                                                                                                        One other short comment. I'm noticing in the last 3 or 4 days, lots more bubbles of <oxygen?> on the plants in the aquarium. Especially in the afternoon.
                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                        Alan
                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                        http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                        -----
                                                                                                                        *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                                                                        *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
                                                                                                                        *** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening list called "OutGardening".
                                                                                                                        *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your address.
                                                                                                                        *** Check them out at:

                                                                                                                        http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/listinfo/

                                                                                                                        ***** I'd like to, but last time I went I never came back..


                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 [mailto:alan.zelhart@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 5:26 AM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 ?



                                                                                                                        I have a diffuser on mine, which dissolves the CO2 into smaller bits of air, and places them in the water. That's probably a horrible scientific explanation, but in answer to your question, on the output tube, I see no bubbles coming out. My setup is similar to the one on Foster and Smith, the only thing I don't have is the fancy PH machine they have that turns off the CO2 when the PH drops below a certain level. I did all my adjustments on the weekend so I could watch and make sure my PH didn't drop below that certain level.

                                                                                                                        My understanding of the process is. Aquarium plants use CO2 during the day for growth, and at night they release oxygen. It's reported by some that there is not enough CO2 in your aquarium water to really satisfy most aquarium plants. Thus the reason for adding more CO2 to the tank. Listen, I never would have believed it, till I tried it. The difference in one week is quite incredible. My passion is gardening, but having an aquarium has always been a hobby too, except I did take a break for several years and am just getting back into it. When I read some of the articles I read on adding CO2 to your tank, I found it intriguing. Just as in gardening I love to experiment with my plants and try new things, so with my aquarium plants. I wanted to try it. So far so good....hopefully next week I won't kill them all. I have pictures from when I first set up the new plants, which haven't done anything since I first put them in there, except get yellowish green. Since I've!
                                                                                                                        added the CO2, the seem to be getting their vim and vigor back. They are looking a darker, richer green, and as I mentioned in a previous post, One particular plant, of which I have 3 in the tank, I swear, I think it's growing 1/4" to 1/2" a day. It's probably not really growing that fast, time just seems to go by to fast, but it sure seems like it.

                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                        Alan
                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                        http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                        -----
                                                                                                                        *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                                                                        *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
                                                                                                                        *** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening list called "OutGardening".
                                                                                                                        *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your address.
                                                                                                                        *** Check them out at:

                                                                                                                        http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/listinfo/

                                                                                                                        ***** I'd like to, but last time I went I never came back..


                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        From: Nan [mailto:ntalb00@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:38 PM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 ?




                                                                                                                        Ok, I get somewhat why the CO2 is being added, I get that it is
                                                                                                                        suppossed to (and probably does) improve your tank plants, but now my
                                                                                                                        big question is, how does it work? I mean how does the CO2 cannister
                                                                                                                        work? I was looking on Foster and Smith at the one they have where
                                                                                                                        fermentation is neccessary to make it work, but what exactly does it
                                                                                                                        do? Does it shoot CO2 into your water for your plants? Is there a
                                                                                                                        tube like an airhose that you run down into the gravel for the plants?
                                                                                                                        I know it is probably a stupid question, but so far I have found no
                                                                                                                        answers on the web.

                                                                                                                        Thanks for your help!

                                                                                                                        ~nan and crew~






                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks . Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links









                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks . Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9855 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Guppy Fry-help
                                                                                                                        Okay~
                                                                                                                        I have a friend that has guppies and fry too. The fry is dying. She has separated the parents from the fry -she has good and clean water,but no salt. Do they need salt? Why are they dying? I have to find info on the net but could not find any.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Stacey


                                                                                                                        Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                        Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9856 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Platies-sexing
                                                                                                                        Hello~
                                                                                                                        I bought 2 Platies to in my tank with my guppies and mollies. I was wondering how to tell the sex of them ----is there a link that has photos that shows you i better understand it with photos.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Stacey


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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9857 From: Evita Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        Ron,  I have a question about the water changes.  On a 20 gal and a 30 gal tank.  Not to sound dumb.  When changing once a week how many gals do you need to change in each?  Also should I do change say the 20 gal on a Fri. and then the 30 gal on a Tues.  Also should I change my tank with tap water that  has been sitting in a closed container for about 3 days and not straight from the tap...(I think it was called distilled water).  If so what is the best type container to keep the water in.  I realize like my bucket the cantainer should be new and only used for my fish water.  Sorry if this question is too silly...I am new at this.  Evita

                                                                                                                        Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        Rachel,

                                                                                                                        My first reaction is: you are over complicating things.  If you want
                                                                                                                        happier, healthier fish and less work for yourself, do the following for
                                                                                                                        your 20 gallon tank:

                                                                                                                        Get a 5 gallon pail from your local hardware store (home depot, whatever).
                                                                                                                        Wash it out and use it for water changes.  Also get a small gravel
                                                                                                                        vaccuum with about 6' of hose if you don't already have one.  They make
                                                                                                                        ones with clips to hold the hose onto the bucket.

                                                                                                                        Once per week, turn off the filter and heater and vaccuum the gravel as
                                                                                                                        you siphon out about 4-5 gallons of water into the bucket.

                                                                                                                        Dump the bucket and refill it with tapwater about the same temperature as
                                                                                                                        the water you took out.  Add 1/2 a capful of prime to the bucket as you
                                                                                                                        fill it, or however much is needed for 5 gallons (some dechlorinators are
                                                                                                                        different strengths).

                                                                                                                        Refill the tank from the bucket and turn the filter and heater back on.

                                                                                                                        Once per month, clean your filter and either replace the filter
                                                                                                                        bag/sponge/etc. or clean it in the bucket of dirty water that you took out
                                                                                                                        of the tank (NOT WITH TAPWATER).  If you use carbon, change your carbon at
                                                                                                                        this time (it cannot be reused).



                                                                                                                        Forget the PH UP and PH DOWN and de-amonia and de-nitrate compounds.  Your
                                                                                                                        tapwater is somewhere between PH 6.5 and 8.  MOST fish will do well in
                                                                                                                        this range and will have no problem adapting to the PH.

                                                                                                                        Amonia (which is toxic at PH 7) is broken down by bacteria living on the
                                                                                                                        surfaces in your tank and in your filter.  It is broken down into Nitrite
                                                                                                                        (which is highly toxic at PH 7).  Other bacteria break down the Nitrite
                                                                                                                        into Nitrate (which is only mildly toxic).  This is called the Nitrogen
                                                                                                                        Cycle.  Frequent water changes dilute the levels of nitrate and keep it
                                                                                                                        down to acceptable levels.  "The solution to polution is dilution."  By
                                                                                                                        performing a 25% water change weekly, you are removing 1/4 of the nitrate
                                                                                                                        each week.  As Nitrate is a fertilizer, you will also be removing 1/4 of
                                                                                                                        the food for the algae (thus starving it out).  Plants in the tank also
                                                                                                                        consume Nitrate, so they will also help starve out the algae.

                                                                                                                        Forget chemical means to eliminate amonia, nitrite and nitrate.  They are
                                                                                                                        expensive and they don't work well.  The stores selling them to you have a
                                                                                                                        financial interest in locking you into a dose, dose, dose regimen.  The
                                                                                                                        ONLY chemical that you need is a dechlorinator, and that is because your
                                                                                                                        municipal water has had either Chlorine or Chloramine added to reduce
                                                                                                                        bacteria (that can make you sick).  These compounds, unless treated with a
                                                                                                                        dechlorinator, will kill the Nitrogen-cycle bacteria in your tank.

                                                                                                                        Prime does not "removes AMMONIA, and detoxifies NITRITE AND NITRATE".  It
                                                                                                                        detoxifies ammonia and nitrite by chemically altering them.  They are
                                                                                                                        still in the tank, they are just less harmful.  Nitrate is like smog.  It
                                                                                                                        isn't really harmful until it gets very bad, but even moderate levels are
                                                                                                                        going to be bad for your fish's health.

                                                                                                                        You do not need to keep reserve water.  You can make it any time in a few
                                                                                                                        minutes.  If the bucket doesn't fit under the faucet, use the tub or
                                                                                                                        shower to fill it.

                                                                                                                        Save your money, save time and you will be rewarded with healthier fish.



                                                                                                                        BTW, some fish (african cichlids, Discus, etc.) will do better with higher
                                                                                                                        or lower PH and harder or softer water, but most tropical fish and
                                                                                                                        semi-tropical (your goldfish) are fine with plain tapwater.





                                                                                                                        Rachel said:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > gosh i would be so happy if i could have a big setup.
                                                                                                                        > theonly thing i can really say to help is that... well... i dont buy
                                                                                                                        > water. i use it from the pipes. in my dorm room bathroom. in the
                                                                                                                        > sink. yes thats right. in new orleans. i use ph down, and prime. i
                                                                                                                        > also own ph indicator solution, ph up, ph decreaser, start right,
                                                                                                                        > algae fix, algae destroyer and florapride. oh the joy. i would be so
                                                                                                                        > happy id be silly-happy if i could get a 20 gal setup for my black
                                                                                                                        > moore goldfish.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > my prime contains 100 ml and treats 1000 US gallons. one capful for
                                                                                                                        > 50 gallons.
                                                                                                                        > my ph down has 37 ml eh i dont like math.
                                                                                                                        > my ph decreaser has 59 ml and was the same price.
                                                                                                                        > ph down and decreaser are 2 different products. woooo.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > i use 1/4th if that of a capful of prime and 26-28 drops of ph down
                                                                                                                        > in a one gallon container (old water jug... WATER CONTAINER not
                                                                                                                        > milk. i always keep 3 fulll and treated in case of emergencys. i
                                                                                                                        > started using prime instead of start right because it does the same
                                                                                                                        > and more. but is more expensive. important: it removes AMMONIA, and
                                                                                                                        > detoxifies NITRITE AND NITRATE. as i understand thoes things are not
                                                                                                                        > too good for our loved wet pets. start right and prime removes
                                                                                                                        > chlorine and chloramine. start right treats 120 gallons. obviously
                                                                                                                        > prime is better, especially when your doing a big setup.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > read it. read anything and everything you can. especially the backs
                                                                                                                        > of the bottles!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > big aquarium = big filter. power filters are BEAUTIFUL. mine adjusts
                                                                                                                        > to powerful flow or gentle flow. carbon filters to go inside your
                                                                                                                        > powerfilter. buying in bulk is good.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > my angelfish used to run my tetras into the filter. so i sold him.
                                                                                                                        > and got more tetras.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > be careful. and take your time. when you set up your aquarium, take
                                                                                                                        > a sample of water to your closest petstore ( i know petco does it)
                                                                                                                        > the best thing to do is buy the strips. the indicator strips.
                                                                                                                        > expensive yes but there are many of them and all you have to do (to
                                                                                                                        > my understanding) is dip it in the tank.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > i enjoy using pro-v decorative waste absorbing crystals. its a
                                                                                                                        > thought. theyre pretty. its fort smaller setups. and you have to
                                                                                                                        > change it every 30days.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > i have a container full of fish stuff. gravel cleaner, containers,
                                                                                                                        > extra food. speaking of food i have shrimp pellets, tetra min, betta
                                                                                                                        > min, hikaru bloodworms and betta food, goldfish flakes too. if i had
                                                                                                                        > freezer space id get me some frozen earth worms.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > definantly love tetras. hardy beauties they are. when you get a
                                                                                                                        > fish, especially if its just a certain kind or group. RESEARCH. i
                                                                                                                        > keep my tetras at a ph of 6. they love it like that.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > generally speaking its better if your tank is wide and short. better
                                                                                                                        > oxygen exchange. which is pretty important.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > ive heard guppys are messy. had 2 myself for a bit. they died quick
                                                                                                                        > though. not sure why.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > wash ur gravel good. and i mean GOOD.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > plants are a wonderful addition. real plants.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > partial water changes are very good for your fish. i think ud b good
                                                                                                                        > maybe a few gallons every other week. stir up the gravel some n let
                                                                                                                        > the power filter kick in. check the water conditions. esp b4 puttin
                                                                                                                        > in new fish.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > i think ive blathered on enough... for now.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > good luck.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Rachel




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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9858 From: Evita Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        Ron,  I had my goldfish about 3 years before they died....5 in a 20 gal tank.  They were very small feeder fish.  They grew pretty big before they died.  I did try to get some really pretty fan tails and they never lived.  Everyone time I introduced one they died.  So I decided not to get anymore.  Then all my goldfish died.  The tank had been empty the last 5 months.  I was wanting to keep the fish I originally wanted tropical community fish but I was a tad bit gun shy.  Then a friend at work had a 30 gal tank with all the stuff about 200.00 plus worth of tank for 30.00 and I couldn't resist.  This time I am starting slow and educated.  So I looked on line for all the info. I could.  I found this group and two other as well.  I now realize I was totally at fault with my goldfish.  I didn't know that water changes were needed.  I was just adding back the evaporated water.  I guess I was slowly killing them even though the water looked good.  They developed something that looked like tail rot which I read was due to poor water quality.  Yesterday I filled the tanks and everything  looks clear.  I WAS WONDERING ....While cycling without fish what is the best water temp. to keep my tanks at?  Right now I am wanting guppies and platties.  I wanted Mollies say salt and pepper but I have read they might need different conditions than the guppies.  I am going out today to get my testers for the water and just as a field-trip to look at the various fish as well as learn about them.  This time I am in no rush.  I plan to take it slow adding fish slowly to my tank.  Any and all advice welcome.  Thanks for all your help.  Oh I have the bucket (I bought yesterday) and a vacuum. Evita

                                                                                                                        Evita,

                                                                                                                        Feeders from the store are usually on their last legs and rarely live long.

                                                                                                                        Why did your fish die?  I don't know, but some possible reasons are:
                                                                                                                        contamination (something dropped into the tank), infrequent water changes
                                                                                                                        (10-20% weekly minimum), rapid temperature change, heater failure (either
                                                                                                                        water too cold or electrocution), disease, etc.

                                                                                                                        Please follow my advice to Rachel about getting a 5 gallon bucket and
                                                                                                                        gravel vac and changing that much water weekly.

                                                                                                                        If you have municipal water, you probably only need to use a
                                                                                                                        dechlorinator.  Test your PH and make sure it falls within about 6.5 to
                                                                                                                        8.0

                                                                                                                        Using bottled water or RO (reverse osmosis) or RO/DI water is not a good
                                                                                                                        idea for freshwater.  The RO filter will remove trace elements in the
                                                                                                                        water that are needed.  Carbon (charcoal) only filtration is fine.  But
                                                                                                                        again, I don't think there's anything wrong with your water as it comes
                                                                                                                        out of the tap.

                                                                                                                        Remember that goldfish are not tropical fish and should not be kept in
                                                                                                                        your community tank.  They require cooler water temperatures and will not
                                                                                                                        do well at the temperatures that a community tank requires.

                                                                                                                        Mollies, guppies, neons, tetras, etc. will do fine.  Be careful with
                                                                                                                        "sucker catfish".  The common pleco grows to 18" long.  Other plecos grow
                                                                                                                        to only 6".  I don't have a problem in my 220 gallon tank, but you would
                                                                                                                        in your 30 gallon.  Research what you want to buy.  Go to the store, find
                                                                                                                        the fish you like, write down the names (the scientific or latin names if
                                                                                                                        they're available) and go home and punch them into google
                                                                                                                        (http://www.google.com).  Find out if they grow large, are agressive, etc.
                                                                                                                        BEFORE you buy them.

                                                                                                                        For example:
                                                                                                                        Red-Belly-Pacu's are cute and active fish.  When full grown, they are 24"
                                                                                                                        long.

                                                                                                                        Oscars are lovely pets, but at 12", you'll need a 75 gallon tank for them.
                                                                                                                        Also, they'll eat smaller fish.




                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jade Evita" <evitabug@y...>
                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> Sorry in advance for the long intro. I posted this in another
                                                                                                                        > group
                                                                                                                        >> as well. I just joined the group, when I was looking on line for
                                                                                                                        > set-
                                                                                                                        >> up advice. I am not a beginner as it were with having fish tanks
                                                                                                                        > over
                                                                                                                        >> the years but this time I really want to do it right.  It seems in
                                                                                                                        >> the past I have been quilty as I am sure most are of setting up
                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                        >> tank and going in blindly hoping for the best.  I have always had
                                                                                                                        > a
                                                                                                                        >> great love for the hobbie along with the best of intentions, yet
                                                                                                                        > of
                                                                                                                        >> course problems resulted.  About five years ago we bought my
                                                                                                                        > oldest
                                                                                                                        >> daughter a 20 gallon set-up.  It measures 24" long and 16" deep.
                                                                                                                        >> Being clueless we when got it I went to the local pet shop...
                                                                                                                        > (which
                                                                                                                        >> has since gone out of business), for advice on how to get
                                                                                                                        > started.
                                                                                                                        >> He gave us half advice and not much support.  That is why I
                                                                                                                        > figured a
                                                                                                                        >> group like this was juist what I need.  Anyway he told us in order
                                                                                                                        > to
                                                                                                                        >> set up the tank and get the water ready we needed to put some
                                                                                                                        > hardy
                                                                                                                        >> fish in it and sold us about 6 gold-fish, (feeders I might add).
                                                                                                                        > The
                                                                                                                        >> first time we tried they all died, almost right away.  We didn't
                                                                                                                        > know
                                                                                                                        >> why.  I live out of the city and we figured it was our water,
                                                                                                                        >> although we didn't test it.  We started over with his filter water
                                                                                                                        >> and new goldfish and things seemed to be fine.  The girls got
                                                                                                                        >> attached to the gold-fish and since they were feeders they just
                                                                                                                        >> didn't want to bring them back.  We decided to keep them.  We had
                                                                                                                        >> them about 4 years fine but with a few deaths along the way.  But
                                                                                                                        > not
                                                                                                                        >> to get the post too long about 5 months ago suddenly they all
                                                                                                                        > died.
                                                                                                                        >> We left the tank empty the last few months.  About two weeks ago
                                                                                                                        > we
                                                                                                                        >> thought of trying again.  We wanted to do a community tank and
                                                                                                                        > breed
                                                                                                                        >> small guppies and mollies and what not.  I had thought having
                                                                                                                        > another
                                                                                                                        >> larger tank would be great in the future so we could use the 20
                                                                                                                        >> gallon as a nursery for the babies to grow.  I was talking at work
                                                                                                                        >> and a lady I work at had one she had used about a year ago before
                                                                                                                        > she
                                                                                                                        >> got a larger tank.  It is a 30 gallon 36" x 16".  It came with
                                                                                                                        >> everything and is like new for only 30.00.  I felt like I was
                                                                                                                        >> stealing it.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> Anyway This time I want to do it right.  I found your site and
                                                                                                                        >> reading all the posts I can have discovered this hobbie is pure
                                                                                                                        >> science.  I might add I was not the best at science.  I really
                                                                                                                        > need
                                                                                                                        >> advice on starting out right.  I was thinking of starting out by
                                                                                                                        >> getting a water filter for my kitchen sink, so I can use my own
                                                                                                                        > water
                                                                                                                        >> instid of driving miles to town with tons of jugs.  Does anyone
                                                                                                                        > else
                                                                                                                        >> have water filters on their home sinks?  I want to also set up
                                                                                                                        > both
                                                                                                                        >> tanks with water.  I would like advice on that as well.  I don't
                                                                                                                        >> really understand this cycling thing.  This time I want to use
                                                                                                                        > fish
                                                                                                                        >> other than gold-fish, that we could keep in the tank.  Can I use
                                                                                                                        >> black mollies or something like them?  I was thinking of having
                                                                                                                        >> mollies, guppies, neons, maybe some of those sucker catfish.  I
                                                                                                                        > look
                                                                                                                        >> forward to any and all advice to get me started right this time.
                                                                                                                        >> Both tanks are clean and ready for the next step....Water. Thanks
                                                                                                                        > in
                                                                                                                        >> advance.  Evita




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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9859 From: Rosahoic Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: CO2 ?
                                                                                                                        If I might add, sometimes pumps are cheaper if you don't shoot
                                                                                                                        for "aquarium" pumps. I bought a fountain pump for my diffuser, for
                                                                                                                        $12.95 at the local home repo. ;) It works perfectly, and tubing fits
                                                                                                                        perfectly :)

                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                        Alan
                                                                                                                        --
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                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nan,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Co2 is needed for plants to breath during the day. The CO2
                                                                                                                        fermentation
                                                                                                                        > canister works in a similar ay as brewing beer. Sugar is converted
                                                                                                                        into
                                                                                                                        > alcohol by yeast and one of the abundant waste products for this is
                                                                                                                        CO2.
                                                                                                                        > This CO2 is directed using a special airline (not a normal airline as
                                                                                                                        the
                                                                                                                        > acidic nature of CO2 can make standard silicone airlines brittle)
                                                                                                                        into the
                                                                                                                        > tank and into a diffuser. The purpose of a diffuser is to
                                                                                                                        diffuse/dissolve
                                                                                                                        > CO2 in the water so it can be utilized by the plants. Plants can
                                                                                                                        consume
                                                                                                                        > only this dissolved available CO2. Plants do not consume CO2 from the
                                                                                                                        gravel
                                                                                                                        > but instead the leaves use it up during photosynthesis.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > There are many types of diffusers, simplest is a powerhead churning
                                                                                                                        the CO2
                                                                                                                        > bubble into 1000s of smaller bubbles that dissolve to a chamber in
                                                                                                                        which a
                                                                                                                        > bubble travels to the top very slowly dissolving itself in the
                                                                                                                        process to
                                                                                                                        > power driven proper diffusers that can dissolve 100% of the CO2
                                                                                                                        produced.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nim
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > _____
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > From: Nan [mailto:ntalb00@...]
                                                                                                                        > Sent: 01 April 2005 01:38
                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 ?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Ok, I get somewhat why the CO2 is being added, I get that it is
                                                                                                                        > suppossed to (and probably does) improve your tank plants, but now my
                                                                                                                        > big question is, how does it work? I mean how does the CO2 cannister
                                                                                                                        > work? I was looking on Foster and Smith at the one they have where
                                                                                                                        > fermentation is neccessary to make it work, but what exactly does it
                                                                                                                        > do? Does it shoot CO2 into your water for your plants? Is there a
                                                                                                                        > tube like an airhose that you run down into the gravel for the
                                                                                                                        plants?
                                                                                                                        > I know it is probably a stupid question, but so far I have found no
                                                                                                                        > answers on the web.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Thanks for your help!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > ~nan and crew~
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                        important to
                                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                        Thank You
                                                                                                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > _____
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                                                                                                                        > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                                                                        > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                        > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
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                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >

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                                                                                                                        Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                        Alan
                                                                                                                        --
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9860 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        Evita said:
                                                                                                                        > Ron, I have a question about the water changes. On a 20 gal and a 30 gal
                                                                                                                        > tank. Not to sound dumb. When changing once a week how many gals do you
                                                                                                                        > need to change in each?
                                                                                                                        The more, the better. 10+%. A 5 gallon bucket is about 18% of the 30 and
                                                                                                                        about 25% of the 20.



                                                                                                                        > Also should I do change say the 20 gal on a Fri.
                                                                                                                        > and then the 30 gal on a Tues.
                                                                                                                        Whenever is convenient for you. As long as you change it.


                                                                                                                        >Also should I change my tank with tap
                                                                                                                        > water that has been sitting in a closed container for about 3 days and
                                                                                                                        > not straight from the tap...(I think it was called distilled water).
                                                                                                                        No need. Add an appriate amount of dechlorinator to the empty bucket and
                                                                                                                        then fill it from the sink. Then just add it to the tank.



                                                                                                                        >If
                                                                                                                        > so what is the best type container to keep the water in. I realize like
                                                                                                                        > my bucket the cantainer should be new and only used for my fish water.
                                                                                                                        > Sorry if this question is too silly...I am new at this. Evita
                                                                                                                        The point is that if it is difficult, you won't do it. Make it as easy as
                                                                                                                        possible, and you will.




                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote: Rachel,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > My first reaction is: you are over complicating things. If you want
                                                                                                                        > happier, healthier fish and less work for yourself, do the following for
                                                                                                                        > your 20 gallon tank:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Get a 5 gallon pail from your local hardware store (home depot, whatever).
                                                                                                                        > Wash it out and use it for water changes. Also get a small gravel
                                                                                                                        > vaccuum with about 6' of hose if you don't already have one. They make
                                                                                                                        > ones with clips to hold the hose onto the bucket.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Once per week, turn off the filter and heater and vaccuum the gravel as
                                                                                                                        > you siphon out about 4-5 gallons of water into the bucket.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Dump the bucket and refill it with tapwater about the same temperature as
                                                                                                                        > the water you took out. Add 1/2 a capful of prime to the bucket as you
                                                                                                                        > fill it, or however much is needed for 5 gallons (some dechlorinators are
                                                                                                                        > different strengths).
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Refill the tank from the bucket and turn the filter and heater back on.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Once per month, clean your filter and either replace the filter
                                                                                                                        > bag/sponge/etc. or clean it in the bucket of dirty water that you took out
                                                                                                                        > of the tank (NOT WITH TAPWATER). If you use carbon, change your carbon at
                                                                                                                        > this time (it cannot be reused).
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Forget the PH UP and PH DOWN and de-amonia and de-nitrate compounds. Your
                                                                                                                        > tapwater is somewhere between PH 6.5 and 8. MOST fish will do well in
                                                                                                                        > this range and will have no problem adapting to the PH.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Amonia (which is toxic at PH 7) is broken down by bacteria living on the
                                                                                                                        > surfaces in your tank and in your filter. It is broken down into Nitrite
                                                                                                                        > (which is highly toxic at PH 7). Other bacteria break down the Nitrite
                                                                                                                        > into Nitrate (which is only mildly toxic). This is called the Nitrogen
                                                                                                                        > Cycle. Frequent water changes dilute the levels of nitrate and keep it
                                                                                                                        > down to acceptable levels. "The solution to polution is dilution." By
                                                                                                                        > performing a 25% water change weekly, you are removing 1/4 of the nitrate
                                                                                                                        > each week. As Nitrate is a fertilizer, you will also be removing 1/4 of
                                                                                                                        > the food for the algae (thus starving it out). Plants in the tank also
                                                                                                                        > consume Nitrate, so they will also help starve out the algae.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Forget chemical means to eliminate amonia, nitrite and nitrate. They are
                                                                                                                        > expensive and they don't work well. The stores selling them to you have a
                                                                                                                        > financial interest in locking you into a dose, dose, dose regimen. The
                                                                                                                        > ONLY chemical that you need is a dechlorinator, and that is because your
                                                                                                                        > municipal water has had either Chlorine or Chloramine added to reduce
                                                                                                                        > bacteria (that can make you sick). These compounds, unless treated with a
                                                                                                                        > dechlorinator, will kill the Nitrogen-cycle bacteria in your tank.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Prime does not "removes AMMONIA, and detoxifies NITRITE AND NITRATE". It
                                                                                                                        > detoxifies ammonia and nitrite by chemically altering them. They are
                                                                                                                        > still in the tank, they are just less harmful. Nitrate is like smog. It
                                                                                                                        > isn't really harmful until it gets very bad, but even moderate levels are
                                                                                                                        > going to be bad for your fish's health.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > You do not need to keep reserve water. You can make it any time in a few
                                                                                                                        > minutes. If the bucket doesn't fit under the faucet, use the tub or
                                                                                                                        > shower to fill it.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Save your money, save time and you will be rewarded with healthier fish.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > BTW, some fish (african cichlids, Discus, etc.) will do better with higher
                                                                                                                        > or lower PH and harder or softer water, but most tropical fish and
                                                                                                                        > semi-tropical (your goldfish) are fine with plain tapwater.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Rachel said:
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> gosh i would be so happy if i could have a big setup.
                                                                                                                        >> theonly thing i can really say to help is that... well... i dont buy
                                                                                                                        >> water. i use it from the pipes. in my dorm room bathroom. in the
                                                                                                                        >> sink. yes thats right. in new orleans. i use ph down, and prime. i
                                                                                                                        >> also own ph indicator solution, ph up, ph decreaser, start right,
                                                                                                                        >> algae fix, algae destroyer and florapride. oh the joy. i would be so
                                                                                                                        >> happy id be silly-happy if i could get a 20 gal setup for my black
                                                                                                                        >> moore goldfish.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> my prime contains 100 ml and treats 1000 US gallons. one capful for
                                                                                                                        >> 50 gallons.
                                                                                                                        >> my ph down has 37 ml eh i dont like math.
                                                                                                                        >> my ph decreaser has 59 ml and was the same price.
                                                                                                                        >> ph down and decreaser are 2 different products. woooo.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> i use 1/4th if that of a capful of prime and 26-28 drops of ph down
                                                                                                                        >> in a one gallon container (old water jug... WATER CONTAINER not
                                                                                                                        >> milk. i always keep 3 fulll and treated in case of emergencys. i
                                                                                                                        >> started using prime instead of start right because it does the same
                                                                                                                        >> and more. but is more expensive. important: it removes AMMONIA, and
                                                                                                                        >> detoxifies NITRITE AND NITRATE. as i understand thoes things are not
                                                                                                                        >> too good for our loved wet pets. start right and prime removes
                                                                                                                        >> chlorine and chloramine. start right treats 120 gallons. obviously
                                                                                                                        >> prime is better, especially when your doing a big setup.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> read it. read anything and everything you can. especially the backs
                                                                                                                        >> of the bottles!
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> big aquarium = big filter. power filters are BEAUTIFUL. mine adjusts
                                                                                                                        >> to powerful flow or gentle flow. carbon filters to go inside your
                                                                                                                        >> powerfilter. buying in bulk is good.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> my angelfish used to run my tetras into the filter. so i sold him.
                                                                                                                        >> and got more tetras.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> be careful. and take your time. when you set up your aquarium, take
                                                                                                                        >> a sample of water to your closest petstore ( i know petco does it)
                                                                                                                        >> the best thing to do is buy the strips. the indicator strips.
                                                                                                                        >> expensive yes but there are many of them and all you have to do (to
                                                                                                                        >> my understanding) is dip it in the tank.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> i enjoy using pro-v decorative waste absorbing crystals. its a
                                                                                                                        >> thought. theyre pretty. its fort smaller setups. and you have to
                                                                                                                        >> change it every 30days.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> i have a container full of fish stuff. gravel cleaner, containers,
                                                                                                                        >> extra food. speaking of food i have shrimp pellets, tetra min, betta
                                                                                                                        >> min, hikaru bloodworms and betta food, goldfish flakes too. if i had
                                                                                                                        >> freezer space id get me some frozen earth worms.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> definantly love tetras. hardy beauties they are. when you get a
                                                                                                                        >> fish, especially if its just a certain kind or group. RESEARCH. i
                                                                                                                        >> keep my tetras at a ph of 6. they love it like that.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> generally speaking its better if your tank is wide and short. better
                                                                                                                        >> oxygen exchange. which is pretty important.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> ive heard guppys are messy. had 2 myself for a bit. they died quick
                                                                                                                        >> though. not sure why.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> wash ur gravel good. and i mean GOOD.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> plants are a wonderful addition. real plants.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> partial water changes are very good for your fish. i think ud b good
                                                                                                                        >> maybe a few gallons every other week. stir up the gravel some n let
                                                                                                                        >> the power filter kick in. check the water conditions. esp b4 puttin
                                                                                                                        >> in new fish.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> i think ive blathered on enough... for now.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> good luck.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> Rachel
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9861 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                            Nim, I think your theory is right, but only at certain times. :)  In nature, water will work toward a point known as saturation, where it holds the maximum amount of a gas it can hold.  For a high-pH body of water, it would hold less CO2 than a low-pH body of water.  So CO2 injection should only be needed if the pH is high.  CO2 injection raise the saturation point for CO2, while adding CO2 at the same time.  I don't do CO2 injection and my CO2 level calculations show it to be around 20 ppm (+/- 10 ppm) every time.  My pH is low and I have pretty good water flow from my filter.  I think the real effect of CO2 injection is to lower the pH, not raise the amount of CO2.  Raising CO2 levels is the side effect.  With the pH lower, more CO2 can be in the water.  But KH is also a factor.  But, CO2 injection can get to the point where the saturation point is too high, then the plants have more CO2 than needed.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Patrick
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                        Guys,

                                                                                                                        I have been thinking about a theory and need some help validating it:

                                                                                                                        We all know that CO2 is well soluble in water. We try to push CO2 in the water for the plants to be able to take. Now the plants do not really care how much ppm CO2 we push in as long as they have it available to them all the time? Rite?

                                                                                                                        Atmosphere has 0.3% CO2 so Ideally if we have a waterfall, the amount of CO2 dissolved in the water will also be 0.3% of all dissolved gasses? Osmotic pressure or something similar to maintain same concentration in both mediums? Does this defy any science? Since we can have a bit of CO2 in the water and have the capability to replenish this small amount, is this quantity enough for plants or not? What happens in streams in rivers? I find it difficult to digest the idea of rotting leaves and bacterial processes in the soil creating enough CO2 that plants need, rather, atmospheric dissolved CO2 as the water flows sounds more reasonable.

                                                                                                                        So if all of the above is true, is it possible that we could have a lush planted medium – high light tank with a couple of spraybars that keep replenishing the 0.3% CO2 back in the water so the plants never really starve of the CO2? I am sure if atmospheric CO2 is dissolved in the water at small quantities, the plants will really never starve.

                                                                                                                        Feedback appreciated J

                                                                                                                        Nim

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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9862 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        Evita said:
                                                                                                                        > Ron, I had my goldfish about 3 years before they died....5 in a 20 gal
                                                                                                                        > tank. They were very small feeder fish. They grew pretty big before they
                                                                                                                        > died. I did try to get some really pretty fan tails and they never lived.
                                                                                                                        > Everyone time I introduced one they died. So I decided not to get
                                                                                                                        > anymore. Then all my goldfish died. The tank had been empty the last 5
                                                                                                                        > months. I was wanting to keep the fish I originally wanted tropical
                                                                                                                        > community fish but I was a tad bit gun shy. Then a friend at work had a
                                                                                                                        > 30 gal tank with all the stuff about 200.00 plus worth of tank for 30.00
                                                                                                                        > and I couldn't resist. This time I am starting slow and educated. So I
                                                                                                                        > looked on line for all the info. I could. I found this group and two
                                                                                                                        > other as well. I now realize I was totally at fault with my goldfish. I
                                                                                                                        > didn't know that water changes were needed. I was just adding back the
                                                                                                                        > evaporated water. I guess I was slowly killing them even though the water
                                                                                                                        > looked good. They developed something that looked like
                                                                                                                        > tail rot which I read was due to poor water quality.
                                                                                                                        The important thing is that you know better and won't repeat the mistake.


                                                                                                                        >Yesterday I filled
                                                                                                                        > the tanks and everything looks clear. I WAS WONDERING ....While cycling
                                                                                                                        > without fish what is the best water temp. to keep my tanks at?
                                                                                                                        Whatever you will keep it at later.


                                                                                                                        > Right now
                                                                                                                        > I am wanting guppies and platties. I wanted Mollies say salt and pepper
                                                                                                                        > but I have read they might need different conditions than the guppies.
                                                                                                                        One tip for you: in the fish store, all the tanks are plumbed together.
                                                                                                                        They are in the same water and doing OK. I mention this to show you that
                                                                                                                        the fish can aclimatize to just about any water conditions. What they
                                                                                                                        can't handle is sudden changes. That's why the new goldfish that you
                                                                                                                        intoduced died. The ones you had were used to the poluted water.



                                                                                                                        >I
                                                                                                                        > am going out today to get my testers for the water and just as a
                                                                                                                        > field-trip to look at the various fish as well as learn about them. This
                                                                                                                        > time I am in no rush. I plan to take it slow adding fish slowly to my
                                                                                                                        > tank.
                                                                                                                        Good for you. You'll find that the hobby is much more rewarding when you
                                                                                                                        know what's going on.




                                                                                                                        >Any and all advice welcome. Thanks for all your help. Oh I have
                                                                                                                        > the bucket (I bought yesterday) and a vacuum. Evita
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Evita,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Feeders from the store are usually on their last legs and rarely live
                                                                                                                        > long.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Why did your fish die? I don't know, but some possible reasons are:
                                                                                                                        > contamination (something dropped into the tank), infrequent water changes
                                                                                                                        > (10-20% weekly minimum), rapid temperature change, heater failure (either
                                                                                                                        > water too cold or electrocution), disease, etc.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Please follow my advice to Rachel about getting a 5 gallon bucket and
                                                                                                                        > gravel vac and changing that much water weekly.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > If you have municipal water, you probably only need to use a
                                                                                                                        > dechlorinator. Test your PH and make sure it falls within about 6.5 to
                                                                                                                        > 8.0
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Using bottled water or RO (reverse osmosis) or RO/DI water is not a good
                                                                                                                        > idea for freshwater. The RO filter will remove trace elements in the
                                                                                                                        > water that are needed. Carbon (charcoal) only filtration is fine. But
                                                                                                                        > again, I don't think there's anything wrong with your water as it comes
                                                                                                                        > out of the tap.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Remember that goldfish are not tropical fish and should not be kept in
                                                                                                                        > your community tank. They require cooler water temperatures and will not
                                                                                                                        > do well at the temperatures that a community tank requires.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Mollies, guppies, neons, tetras, etc. will do fine. Be careful with
                                                                                                                        > "sucker catfish". The common pleco grows to 18" long. Other plecos grow
                                                                                                                        > to only 6". I don't have a problem in my 220 gallon tank, but you would
                                                                                                                        > in your 30 gallon. Research what you want to buy. Go to the store, find
                                                                                                                        > the fish you like, write down the names (the scientific or latin names if
                                                                                                                        > they're available) and go home and punch them into google
                                                                                                                        > (http://www.google.com). Find out if they grow large, are agressive, etc.
                                                                                                                        > BEFORE you buy them.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > For example:
                                                                                                                        > Red-Belly-Pacu's are cute and active fish. When full grown, they are 24"
                                                                                                                        > long.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Oscars are lovely pets, but at 12", you'll need a 75 gallon tank for them.
                                                                                                                        > Also, they'll eat smaller fish.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jade Evita" <evitabug@y...>
                                                                                                                        >> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                        >>> Sorry in advance for the long intro. I posted this in another
                                                                                                                        >> group
                                                                                                                        >>> as well. I just joined the group, when I was looking on line for
                                                                                                                        >> set-
                                                                                                                        >>> up advice. I am not a beginner as it were with having fish tanks
                                                                                                                        >> over
                                                                                                                        >>> the years but this time I really want to do it right. It seems in
                                                                                                                        >>> the past I have been quilty as I am sure most are of setting up
                                                                                                                        >> the
                                                                                                                        >>> tank and going in blindly hoping for the best. I have always had
                                                                                                                        >> a
                                                                                                                        >>> great love for the hobbie along with the best of intentions, yet
                                                                                                                        >> of
                                                                                                                        >>> course problems resulted. About five years ago we bought my
                                                                                                                        >> oldest
                                                                                                                        >>> daughter a 20 gallon set-up. It measures 24" long and 16" deep.
                                                                                                                        >>> Being clueless we when got it I went to the local pet shop...
                                                                                                                        >> (which
                                                                                                                        >>> has since gone out of business), for advice on how to get
                                                                                                                        >> started.
                                                                                                                        >>> He gave us half advice and not much support. That is why I
                                                                                                                        >> figured a
                                                                                                                        >>> group like this was juist what I need. Anyway he told us in order
                                                                                                                        >> to
                                                                                                                        >>> set up the tank and get the water ready we needed to put some
                                                                                                                        >> hardy
                                                                                                                        >>> fish in it and sold us about 6 gold-fish, (feeders I might add).
                                                                                                                        >> The
                                                                                                                        >>> first time we tried they all died, almost right away. We didn't
                                                                                                                        >> know
                                                                                                                        >>> why. I live out of the city and we figured it was our water,
                                                                                                                        >>> although we didn't test it. We started over with his filter water
                                                                                                                        >>> and new goldfish and things seemed to be fine. The girls got
                                                                                                                        >>> attached to the gold-fish and since they were feeders they just
                                                                                                                        >>> didn't want to bring them back. We decided to keep them. We had
                                                                                                                        >>> them about 4 years fine but with a few deaths along the way. But
                                                                                                                        >> not
                                                                                                                        >>> to get the post too long about 5 months ago suddenly they all
                                                                                                                        >> died.
                                                                                                                        >>> We left the tank empty the last few months. About two weeks ago
                                                                                                                        >> we
                                                                                                                        >>> thought of trying again. We wanted to do a community tank and
                                                                                                                        >> breed
                                                                                                                        >>> small guppies and mollies and what not. I had thought having
                                                                                                                        >> another
                                                                                                                        >>> larger tank would be great in the future so we could use the 20
                                                                                                                        >>> gallon as a nursery for the babies to grow. I was talking at work
                                                                                                                        >>> and a lady I work at had one she had used about a year ago before
                                                                                                                        >> she
                                                                                                                        >>> got a larger tank. It is a 30 gallon 36" x 16". It came with
                                                                                                                        >>> everything and is like new for only 30.00. I felt like I was
                                                                                                                        >>> stealing it.
                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                        >>> Anyway This time I want to do it right. I found your site and
                                                                                                                        >>> reading all the posts I can have discovered this hobbie is pure
                                                                                                                        >>> science. I might add I was not the best at science. I really
                                                                                                                        >> need
                                                                                                                        >>> advice on starting out right. I was thinking of starting out by
                                                                                                                        >>> getting a water filter for my kitchen sink, so I can use my own
                                                                                                                        >> water
                                                                                                                        >>> instid of driving miles to town with tons of jugs. Does anyone
                                                                                                                        >> else
                                                                                                                        >>> have water filters on their home sinks? I want to also set up
                                                                                                                        >> both
                                                                                                                        >>> tanks with water. I would like advice on that as well. I don't
                                                                                                                        >>> really understand this cycling thing. This time I want to use
                                                                                                                        >> fish
                                                                                                                        >>> other than gold-fish, that we could keep in the tank. Can I use
                                                                                                                        >>> black mollies or something like them? I was thinking of having
                                                                                                                        >>> mollies, guppies, neons, maybe some of those sucker catfish. I
                                                                                                                        >> look
                                                                                                                        >>> forward to any and all advice to get me started right this time.
                                                                                                                        >>> Both tanks are clean and ready for the next step....Water. Thanks
                                                                                                                        >> in
                                                                                                                        >>> advance. Evita
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9863 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                        Patrick,

                                                                                                                        Equilibrium is what I was talking about. Water can not really have more CO2 concentration in it as per the method I mentioned. What I was stressing was a constant supply of very small quantities of CO2. Its like the plants will  always get  very small amounts of CO2 all the time rather then huge amounts at 1 time until they exhaust it. Question is, what is better? A constant supply of a nutrient that will never exhaust or a inconsistent supply of a nutrient in large quantities that may also never exhaust. Second method costs money and the first method is free J Is a constant supply of replenish able CO2 in very little quantities sufficient for plants?

                                                                                                                        When we do not push CO2 in a tank with no surface agitation, we create CO2 deficiency as the plants ideally use up all or most of the CO2 in the water. CO2 from fish and bacteria respiration is fine but will that be able to cope with the plant requirements (Never exhaust for even a second)? I doubt it is. If we manage to make a replenishable constant but small source of CO2 for the plants, will plants do better then a non CO2 tank? Ofcourse it will not do better then a CO2 enriched tank but could it be almost at par?

                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                        From: Patrick, American Fish Guy [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: 01 April 2005 17:19
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                            Nim, I think your theory is right, but only at certain times. :)  In nature, water will work toward a point known as saturation, where it holds the maximum amount of a gas it can hold.  For a high-pH body of water, it would hold less CO2 than a low-pH body of water.  So CO2 injection should only be needed if the pH is high.  CO2 injection raise the saturation point for CO2, while adding CO2 at the same time.  I don't do CO2 injection and my CO2 level calculations show it to be around 20 ppm (+/- 10 ppm) every time.  My pH is low and I have pretty good water flow from my filter.  I think the real effect of CO2 injection is to lower the pH, not raise the amount of CO2.  Raising CO2 levels is the side effect.  With the pH lower, more CO2 can be in the water.  But KH is also a factor.  But, CO2 injection can get to the point where the saturation point is too high, then the plants have more CO2 than needed.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Patrick

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                        Guys,

                                                                                                                        I have been thinking about a theory and need some help validating it:

                                                                                                                        We all know that CO2 is well soluble in water. We try to push CO2 in the water for the plants to be able to take. Now the plants do not really care how much ppm CO2 we push in as long as they have it available to them all the time? Rite?

                                                                                                                        Atmosphere has 0.3% CO2 so Ideally if we have a waterfall, the amount of CO2 dissolved in the water will also be 0.3% of all dissolved gasses? Osmotic pressure or something similar to maintain same concentration in both mediums? Does this defy any science? Since we can have a bit of CO2 in the water and have the capability to replenish this small amount, is this quantity enough for plants or not? What happens in streams in rivers? I find it difficult to digest the idea of rotting leaves and bacterial processes in the soil creating enough CO2 that plants need, rather, atmospheric dissolved CO2 as the water flows sounds more reasonable.

                                                                                                                        So if all of the above is true, is it possible that we could have a lush planted medium – high light tank with a couple of spraybars that keep replenishing the 0.3% CO2 back in the water so the plants never really starve of the CO2? I am sure if atmospheric CO2 is dissolved in the water at small quantities, the plants will really never starve.

                                                                                                                        Feedback appreciated J

                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9864 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Guppy Fry-help
                                                                                                                        Are the fry getting anything to eat?  they have very tiny mouth and need smaller foods. There are foods on the market for live bearer fry. Also you can crush flake very finely when trying to feed them. Your friend may have good clean water but is it treated for chlorine and chloramines? and is the water filtered?

                                                                                                                        There is a big debate in the scientific community about salt and most people either agree that salt is good, or salt isn't needed.

                                                                                                                        I know not much help
                                                                                                                        Rob
                                                                                                                        Indiana




                                                                                                                        In a message dated 4/1/2005 7:59:27 AM US Eastern Standard Time, krazy4mypets@... writes:


                                                                                                                        Okay~

                                                                                                                        I have a friend that has guppies and fry too. The fry is dying. She has separated the parents from the fry -she has good and clean water,but no salt. Do they need salt? Why are they dying? I have to find info on the net but could not find any.

                                                                                                                        Stacey


                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9865 From: fish14162001 Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Feeding
                                                                                                                        I was just wondering how often everyone feeds thier fish. Thanks
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9866 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        Ron Hansen said:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Evita said:
                                                                                                                        >>I
                                                                                                                        >> am going out today to get my testers for the water and just as a
                                                                                                                        >> field-trip to look at the various fish as well as learn about them.
                                                                                                                        >> This
                                                                                                                        >> time I am in no rush. I plan to take it slow adding fish slowly to my
                                                                                                                        >> tank.
                                                                                                                        > Good for you. You'll find that the hobby is much more rewarding when you
                                                                                                                        > know what's going on.


                                                                                                                        Wow, that sure sounded condescending. What I was trying to say was that
                                                                                                                        the hobby is more enjoyable when you understand the dynamics of what is
                                                                                                                        going on in the tank: Why the fish do what they do, what makes them happy
                                                                                                                        or stressed, what makes them spawn (if you want to raise fish), etc.

                                                                                                                        Ron Hansen
                                                                                                                        1st Vice President, Brooklyn Aquarium Society
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9867 From: Rob And Joyce Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: This may seem OT, but.....
                                                                                                                        Anyone here watch Star Trek Enterprise? Has anyone else noticed the Dr. Flox uses many Marineland Explorer tanks for his numerous pets? I write this message because there is a movement to save this show (and the tanks) at saveenterprise.com and they have raised about 3.2 million bucks to save this great show. Just thought I'd mention it. Hope everyone had a nice Easter, Rob.
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9868 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                        This sounds like a good test for somebody with lots of time and empty tanks. :)  I wonder if it would be possible to find the amount of CO2 in a plant's native waters and try to match that in the tank?  But would you have to match all the other nutrients to make that work? 
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        I don't know, its too confusing for me.  I'm sticking to low-light plants. :)
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Patrick
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                        Patrick,

                                                                                                                        Equilibrium is what I was talking about. Water can not really have more CO2 concentration in it as per the method I mentioned. What I was stressing was a constant supply of very small quantities of CO2. Its like the plants will  always get  very small amounts of CO2 all the time rather then huge amounts at 1 time until they exhaust it. Question is, what is better? A constant supply of a nutrient that will never exhaust or a inconsistent supply of a nutrient in large quantities that may also never exhaust. Second method costs money and the first method is free J Is a constant supply of replenish able CO2 in very little quantities sufficient for plants?

                                                                                                                        When we do not push CO2 in a tank with no surface agitation, we create CO2 deficiency as the plants ideally use up all or most of the CO2 in the water. CO2 from fish and bacteria respiration is fine but will that be able to cope with the plant requirements (Never exhaust for even a second)? I doubt it is. If we manage to make a replenishable constant but small source of CO2 for the plants, will plants do better then a non CO2 tank? Ofcourse it will not do better then a CO2 enriched tank but could it be almost at par?

                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9869 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                        Message
                                                                                                                        Not me, I don't have any empty tanks, uh, unless someone cares to donate me a nice 125 gallon tank with a nice stand an canopy.  Then I'll do some experiment'n for em ;)  Oh, and if there feeling really generous, how bout a nice 320 gallon too.  I could use it as a room divider, experiment with that, and see how that works ;)
                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                        Alan
                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chandler, Arizona        Sunset Zone: 13
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                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        From: Patrick, American Fish Guy [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 1:59 PM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                        This sounds like a good test for somebody with lots of time and empty tanks. :)  I wonder if it would be possible to find the amount of CO2 in a plant's native waters and try to match that in the tank?  But would you have to match all the other nutrients to make that work? 
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        I don't know, its too confusing for me.  I'm sticking to low-light plants. :)
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Patrick
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                        Patrick,

                                                                                                                        Equilibrium is what I was talking about. Water can not really have more CO2 concentration in it as per the method I mentioned. What I was stressing was a constant supply of very small quantities of CO2. Its like the plants will  always get  very small amounts of CO2 all the time rather then huge amounts at 1 time until they exhaust it. Question is, what is better? A constant supply of a nutrient that will never exhaust or a inconsistent supply of a nutrient in large quantities that may also never exhaust. Second method costs money and the first method is free J Is a constant supply of replenish able CO2 in very little quan! tities sufficient for plants?

                                                                                                                        When we do not push CO2 in a tank with no surface agitation, we create CO2 deficiency as the plants ideally use up all or most of the CO2 in the water. CO2 from fish and bacteria respiration is fine but will that be able to cope with the plant requirements (Never exhaust for even a second)? I doubt it is. If we manage to make a replenishable constant but small source of CO2 for the plants, will plants do better then a non CO2 tank? Ofcourse it will not do better then a CO2 enriched tank but could it be almost at par?

                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9870 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: This may seem OT, but.....
                                                                                                                            Well, that's the only show I watch on that network, so I guess I can quit watching it soon.  3.2 million is a lot of money, but I think the company is determined to end the entire series forever.  It would be nice if one of those rich geeks...I mean smart people... would buy out the franchise rights.  Maybe it could be a coalition of fish keepers and sci-fi fans.  The Aquatic species could be emphasized more.  :)  I never noticed the tanks before though.  I will have to watch it to night and see if it shows them.  
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Patrick
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                        Anyone here watch Star Trek Enterprise?  Has anyone else noticed the Dr. Flox uses many Marineland Explorer tanks for his numerous pets?  I write this message because there is a movement to save this show (and the tanks) at saveenterprise.com and they have raised about 3.2 million bucks to save this great show.  Just thought I'd mention it.  Hope everyone had a nice Easter, Rob.
                                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9871 From: Hrvoje Maric Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
                                                                                                                        A year ago my wife and kids surprised me for birthday with six young
                                                                                                                        angelfish, so I added them to our 60 gal tank. What they didn't know,
                                                                                                                        is that, as all chiclids, angelfish are extremly territorial, once
                                                                                                                        they mature sexually. After only few months they have grown, and two
                                                                                                                        of them formed a pair, and started mating. They have killed three of
                                                                                                                        their inmates in matter of days. The last one was hiding in a corner,
                                                                                                                        untill they killed him too. You may wander why I didn't remove them
                                                                                                                        on time. Well, knowing what will happend I wanted to give them away,
                                                                                                                        but untill I've found someone to take them (and persuaded kids that I
                                                                                                                        do care for their present, just need to save them) it was too late.
                                                                                                                        Angelfish will fight among themselves even if they are not in pairs,
                                                                                                                        simply because of their natural behaviour. Rearranging the tank may
                                                                                                                        help for couple of weeks, but generally they will fight untill the
                                                                                                                        end, unless you keep them in really big tank (over 100 gal). A mating
                                                                                                                        pair will even harras any other fish which becomes too curious, and
                                                                                                                        for them even the tetrazonas (notorious foe) will not be a problem.
                                                                                                                        Bottom line is: do not keep two of them in anything less than 60 gal
                                                                                                                        (providing they form a pair), for more use considerable bigger tank,
                                                                                                                        and keep an eye on their behaviour.

                                                                                                                        Hrvoje
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9872 From: paul helms Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Feeding
                                                                                                                        once a day, skipping 1 to 2 days per week
                                                                                                                        --- fish14162001 <fish14162001@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I was just wondering how often everyone feeds thier
                                                                                                                        > fish. Thanks
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9873 From: rca2745@aol.com Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
                                                                                                                        In a message dated 4/1/2005 4:42:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, hrvoje.maric3@... writes:
                                                                                                                        Hrvoje
                                                                                                                        Hrvoje,
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        I always take advice from people who know more than me, That being said, I have 5 angels in a tall 20 gal tank and apparently they are all of the same sex or something because they cohabitate peacefully, as of yet(knock on wood).  They have been together in this tank for about 6 months.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        -Rick
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9874 From: bettamuse Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Huge international betta show in Brisbane
                                                                                                                        I thought I would take the opportunity to tell all the Aussies, specially the Brisbane folk
                                                                                                                        that there is the Pet and Hobby expo (April 15-17)fish show, this is put on by the local fish
                                                                                                                        clubs and run by QFAS.
                                                                                                                        Part of it will be the First International Betta show held in Australia. There are over 180
                                                                                                                        International fish being sent over for the show as well as local fish, that means there is
                                                                                                                        well over 200 bettas on show. Should be quite a sight.
                                                                                                                        The good news for the aussies is that all the overseas competitors fish will be sold off after
                                                                                                                        the show as it is too difficult to return them. So if anyone is interested in showing their
                                                                                                                        bettas or just would like the opportunity to buy a top quality show fish, many
                                                                                                                        internationals sent matching females to sell, let me know and I'll give you the contact
                                                                                                                        E-mail address to find out more.

                                                                                                                        Cheers
                                                                                                                        BM
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9875 From: Nan Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        Hi, Jade.

                                                                                                                        I am Nan. I want to re-enforce what I have seen you be told. Yes,
                                                                                                                        feeders are usually on their last leg, so I am glad to see that you
                                                                                                                        have had the pleasure of them living for the amount of time you did,
                                                                                                                        with the 2nd go around that is.

                                                                                                                        I want to try to simple this down for you as much as I can, because
                                                                                                                        you already sound somewhat intimdated by what you have read.

                                                                                                                        First decide what fish you want, make sure all of what you want can
                                                                                                                        go together, that they all prefer the same temp range (don't want
                                                                                                                        cold water fish like goldfish to go in with guppys that like it a
                                                                                                                        toasty 80 degrees F!*LOL*). Now you want to go ahead and set up your
                                                                                                                        tank. Your going to want to think about it as a mini eco-system, not
                                                                                                                        just something pretty to look at (however, when your done, it will
                                                                                                                        probably be a lovely centerpiece!). Do you want live plants
                                                                                                                        (preferred because it helps keep you water in balance, helps keep the
                                                                                                                        tank clean, and the fish prefer to rest on those soft leaves rather
                                                                                                                        than the plastic ones!:) ), what color of gravel do you want,
                                                                                                                        decorations, etc...

                                                                                                                        Now you can set up your tank. Don't forget the dechlorinator!
                                                                                                                        Aquarium salt is also reccomended for Mollys and Guppys, because it
                                                                                                                        helps keep them less stressed and Mollys, I am told, like it a little
                                                                                                                        bit salty..*LOL* Now your going to let your tank cycle. Turn
                                                                                                                        everything on, make sure your heater is adjusted right, that
                                                                                                                        everything is in place where you want it and make sure you don't have
                                                                                                                        last minute stuff you want to add.

                                                                                                                        When it comes time to add the fish, do it slowly. Add a couple at a
                                                                                                                        time over several days, because your going to need to let the
                                                                                                                        bacteria build up in the gravel that helps take care of their waste
                                                                                                                        and keeps the tank at a natural balance. By this time you have done
                                                                                                                        enough research you know if the type of fish you want is going to be
                                                                                                                        a community tank, or an aggressive tank, and you can make a somewhat
                                                                                                                        educated stand on what you want. Don't let pet store people pull a
                                                                                                                        fast one! Some do, not all but some, are just in it for the sale.
                                                                                                                        How can you tell? You can't unless you go in prepared. You know
                                                                                                                        that feeder fish aren't going to last from experience, so get a pair
                                                                                                                        of guppys. With Guppys it is good to have either all males, all
                                                                                                                        females, or one male with a couple of females. Same with mollies. I
                                                                                                                        wouldn't add barbs of any kind to the tank, even though they are
                                                                                                                        pretty, I found them to be horrible fin nippers, and will kill guppys
                                                                                                                        and mollies in no time flat! Make sure in your selections you get a
                                                                                                                        few bottom feeders, my favorite are dojo weather loaches. Dojos love
                                                                                                                        to race around the tank, and be in groups. I have 3 in my 35 gallon
                                                                                                                        and they are the comics of the tank!*LOL* But any of the loach
                                                                                                                        family are wonderful, too. Coryadoras and Octos are great to. Octos
                                                                                                                        work the same as plecos and help keep the algea down.

                                                                                                                        Now is the time you want the gravel vacuumn that you have heard
                                                                                                                        mention in other posts, that is to clean about half of your gravel
                                                                                                                        once a week, I do mine on Saturdays since I know I will have the
                                                                                                                        weekend off and I prefer to loaf around on Sunday..*LOL*. Whatever
                                                                                                                        water comes out when you clean, you refill with dechlorniated water,
                                                                                                                        and a little aquarium salt after you make sure it is the same temp as
                                                                                                                        your tank. Make sure you add it slowly, so that you don't terrorize
                                                                                                                        your new pets, and even if the water is a degree or two off, it won't
                                                                                                                        be a big deal as it will all even off.

                                                                                                                        Everyone has their own preferences on how to set up a tank, this is
                                                                                                                        just how I do it and it works well for me. However, take the time to
                                                                                                                        look at everyones advice, and hopefully you will find one or a
                                                                                                                        combination of some that will work best for you. Sorry that I was
                                                                                                                        so long winded, seems that once I get started I just can stop..*LOL*

                                                                                                                        Good luck to you, and I know that I will be waiting to hear how it
                                                                                                                        all goes!

                                                                                                                        ~Nan and Crew~
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9876 From: Nan Date: 4/1/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Feeding
                                                                                                                        fish14162001:

                                                                                                                        In answer to your question Adults I feed 1x a day (evenings), Fry I
                                                                                                                        feed 2x a day (morning and night) and juveniles I feed as adults 1x a
                                                                                                                        day because generally they are in with adults or others close to their
                                                                                                                        size by then.

                                                                                                                        ~Nan and Crew~
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9877 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!
                                                                                                                        What brand of fin rot medicine are you using? I want to get some of that if
                                                                                                                        it is that good. Thanks.

                                                                                                                        Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                        LoveMoAko@...

                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                        From: Nicolas J. Munro
                                                                                                                        Date: 03/31/05 23:05:37
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: betta tail biting?!?!


                                                                                                                        I went down to my LFS last weekend complaining about my guppies
                                                                                                                        attacking/eating tails of every thing (there the bossiest thing in the
                                                                                                                        tank! also the smallest)

                                                                                                                        anyways the guy said "its the slim coating they are eating" and suggest
                                                                                                                        some Algae Discs, which of couse sounded silly to me but i tried it any
                                                                                                                        ways and altho its only been a couple days (almost a week) but i think
                                                                                                                        its working.

                                                                                                                        I got 'Wardley Algae Discs' brand if its of any help.

                                                                                                                        Also i got some Fin Rot Remedy chemicals and have dosed the tank with
                                                                                                                        thathat too which may also help with shrinking fins. My smallest tiger
                                                                                                                        barb now has much much larger fins since its got better.

                                                                                                                        Nick
                                                                                                                        Brisbane Australia

                                                                                                                        (Sick fish season over here at the moment)



                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bettamuse" <bettamuse@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hi Rachel,
                                                                                                                        > I've seen this a lot and it is nearly always in the Halfmoon fish
                                                                                                                        > that have a large tail volume. We've tried everything to stop
                                                                                                                        > bettas doing this and it makes no difference what we do. Some fish do
                                                                                                                        > it and some don't






                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                        the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                        subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in
                                                                                                                        Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9878 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
                                                                                                                        Hello, For whatever reason for his (her) aggressive behavior, it
                                                                                                                        doesn't seem as if that fish will calm down. Since you haven't
                                                                                                                        mentioned anything about the fourth Angel being cornered, I would guess
                                                                                                                        that fish may be pairing off with the fourth Angel and wanting to
                                                                                                                        spawn, do not want the other two in the area. Occasionally, there
                                                                                                                        might be an aggressive lone male, only because he (being a typical
                                                                                                                        Cichlid) may get territorial, although this doesn't happen too often.
                                                                                                                        Otherwise, its perfectly safe to raise a small group (8 or so) in a
                                                                                                                        tank of about 50 gallons, with no risk of any of them being killed, as
                                                                                                                        there are now too many to be singled out and cornered, should any one
                                                                                                                        even start to become aggressive. In fact, usually the group
                                                                                                                        environment will suppress any aggressiveness. However, with just a few
                                                                                                                        Angels in a 29, they have no where to go when any one of them gets
                                                                                                                        belligerent. Move the two cornered fish before they get beaten up and
                                                                                                                        see what happens between the two remaining fish. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                        \ --
                                                                                                                        - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "robdar4609" <robdar4609@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hello - I have 4 good sized Angel fish in my 29-gallon tank, they
                                                                                                                        have
                                                                                                                        > all been in there since they were babies so they have gotten
                                                                                                                        > along...but I had to move the tank recently and now one of my Angels
                                                                                                                        > is really agrivated (a week after I moved the tank)...he/she has
                                                                                                                        > cornered 2 of the other angle and attacks them when they try to eat...
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Will this fish calm down over time or should I consider moving the
                                                                                                                        > fish?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > thanks
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9879 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Feeding
                                                                                                                        Once a day for the adults, twice a day for the juveniles and three
                                                                                                                        times a day for the fry. The exception being more frequently for adult
                                                                                                                        fish being conditioned for spawning. Additionally, (FYI) growing fry
                                                                                                                        will benefit with feedings as frequent as five times per day; feedings
                                                                                                                        in excess of this have proven to be of no more (or very little)
                                                                                                                        benefit. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "fish14162001" <fish14162001@y...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I was just wondering how often everyone feeds thier fish. Thanks
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9880 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        Jade,

                                                                                                                        While there is science involved, there is a lot of "art" involved also. The
                                                                                                                        science is fairly easy to master, in that you simply need to find what
                                                                                                                        works, and not worry about why it works. Take, for example, cycling a tank.
                                                                                                                        This involves getting what is known as the biological cycle running, and in
                                                                                                                        balance. The actual science behind it can get complex, but all you really
                                                                                                                        need to know is that when the cycle starts, measurements of ammonia rise,
                                                                                                                        reach a peak and begin to drop at which point the nitrites rises to a point
                                                                                                                        where it begins to drop, and the nitrates start to rise. When the first two
                                                                                                                        become immeasurable, the cycle has become established. Without intervention,
                                                                                                                        the third will continue to rise, but, with plants and water changes, it can
                                                                                                                        be controlled. All you need to know is how to use and read the test kits,
                                                                                                                        which are fairly simple to understand, and what you are looking for. You
                                                                                                                        really don't need to know the why's behind it all (unless you have a budding
                                                                                                                        scientist, then you could be in trouble <g>).

                                                                                                                        The what to look fors are pretty widely available. The science is often
                                                                                                                        simplified, but if you are really curious, you can delve further into it, to
                                                                                                                        the point of needing a college degree to understand it.

                                                                                                                        The art comes in by learning, or knowing, how much of what to do to achieve
                                                                                                                        a desired result, but it kind of boils down to intuitive science. The real
                                                                                                                        art comes in being able to make the aquarium look pleasing to the eye, using
                                                                                                                        plants and "decorative" items such as wood, stone, etc.

                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        From: Jade Evita [mailto:evitabug@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 10:13 AM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!




                                                                                                                        Sorry in advance for the long intro. I posted this in another group
                                                                                                                        as well. I just joined the group, when I was looking on line for set-
                                                                                                                        up advice. I am not a beginner as it were with having fish tanks over
                                                                                                                        the years but this time I really want to do it right. It seems in
                                                                                                                        the past I have been quilty as I am sure most are of setting up the
                                                                                                                        tank and going in blindly hoping for the best. I have always had a
                                                                                                                        great love for the hobbie along with the best of intentions, yet of
                                                                                                                        course problems resulted. About five years ago we bought my oldest
                                                                                                                        daughter a 20 gallon set-up. It measures 24" long and 16" deep.
                                                                                                                        Being clueless we when got it I went to the local pet shop...(which
                                                                                                                        has since gone out of business), for advice on how to get started.
                                                                                                                        He gave us half advice and not much support. That is why I figured a
                                                                                                                        group like this was juist what I need. Anyway he told us in order to
                                                                                                                        set up the tank and get the water ready we needed to put some hardy
                                                                                                                        fish in it and sold us about 6 gold-fish, (feeders I might add). The
                                                                                                                        first time we tried they all died, almost right away. We didn't know
                                                                                                                        why. I live out of the city and we figured it was our water,
                                                                                                                        although we didn't test it. We started over with his filter water
                                                                                                                        and new goldfish and things seemed to be fine. The girls got
                                                                                                                        attached to the gold-fish and since they were feeders they just
                                                                                                                        didn't want to bring them back. We decided to keep them. We had
                                                                                                                        them about 4 years fine but with a few deaths along the way. But not
                                                                                                                        to get the post too long about 5 months ago suddenly they all died.
                                                                                                                        We left the tank empty the last few months. About two weeks ago we
                                                                                                                        thought of trying again. We wanted to do a community tank and breed
                                                                                                                        small guppies and mollies and what not. I had thought having another
                                                                                                                        larger tank would be great in the future so we could use the 20
                                                                                                                        gallon as a nursery for the babies to grow. I was talking at work
                                                                                                                        and a lady I work at had one she had used about a year ago before she
                                                                                                                        got a larger tank. It is a 30 gallon 36" x 16". It came with
                                                                                                                        everything and is like new for only 30.00. I felt like I was
                                                                                                                        stealing it.

                                                                                                                        Anyway This time I want to do it right. I found your site and
                                                                                                                        reading all the posts I can have discovered this hobbie is pure
                                                                                                                        science. I might add I was not the best at science. I really need
                                                                                                                        advice on starting out right. I was thinking of starting out by
                                                                                                                        getting a water filter for my kitchen sink, so I can use my own water
                                                                                                                        instid of driving miles to town with tons of jugs. Does anyone else
                                                                                                                        have water filters on their home sinks? I want to also set up both
                                                                                                                        tanks with water. I would like advice on that as well. I don't
                                                                                                                        really understand this cycling thing. This time I want to use fish
                                                                                                                        other than gold-fish, that we could keep in the tank. Can I use
                                                                                                                        black mollies or something like them? I was thinking of having
                                                                                                                        mollies, guppies, neons, maybe some of those sucker catfish. I look
                                                                                                                        forward to any and all advice to get me started right this time.
                                                                                                                        Both tanks are clean and ready for the next step....Water. Thanks in
                                                                                                                        advance. Evita










                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                        the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                        subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                        in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9881 From: paul helms Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!
                                                                                                                        just use melafix
                                                                                                                        --- Rei - Raymond Tremor <rei_tremor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > What brand of fin rot medicine are you using? I want
                                                                                                                        > to get some of that if
                                                                                                                        > it is that good. Thanks.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                        > LoveMoAko@...
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > From: Nicolas J. Munro
                                                                                                                        > Date: 03/31/05 23:05:37
                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: betta tail biting?!?!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I went down to my LFS last weekend complaining about
                                                                                                                        > my guppies
                                                                                                                        > attacking/eating tails of every thing (there the
                                                                                                                        > bossiest thing in the
                                                                                                                        > tank! also the smallest)
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > anyways the guy said "its the slim coating they are
                                                                                                                        > eating" and suggest
                                                                                                                        > some Algae Discs, which of couse sounded silly to me
                                                                                                                        > but i tried it any
                                                                                                                        > ways and altho its only been a couple days (almost a
                                                                                                                        > week) but i think
                                                                                                                        > its working.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I got 'Wardley Algae Discs' brand if its of any
                                                                                                                        > help.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Also i got some Fin Rot Remedy chemicals and have
                                                                                                                        > dosed the tank with
                                                                                                                        > thathat too which may also help with shrinking fins.
                                                                                                                        > My smallest tiger
                                                                                                                        > barb now has much much larger fins since its got
                                                                                                                        > better.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nick
                                                                                                                        > Brisbane Australia
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > (Sick fish season over here at the moment)
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bettamuse"
                                                                                                                        > <bettamuse@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Hi Rachel,
                                                                                                                        > > I've seen this a lot and it is nearly always in
                                                                                                                        > the Halfmoon fish
                                                                                                                        > > that have a large tail volume. We've tried
                                                                                                                        > everything to stop
                                                                                                                        > > bettas doing this and it makes no difference what
                                                                                                                        > we do. Some fish do
                                                                                                                        > > it and some don't
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9882 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        FWIW, a goldfish should live 20+ years. An adult goldfish should have a
                                                                                                                        minimum of 30 gallons of water per fish--for your 5, you should have had a
                                                                                                                        tank of 120-150 gallons.

                                                                                                                        Goldfish are messy fish. They produce a lot of waste. Someone mentioned
                                                                                                                        earlier cleaning the filter once a month--bad idea. Especially for fish like
                                                                                                                        goldfish, a filter should be serviced at least once a week, or when the flow
                                                                                                                        of water slows.

                                                                                                                        If you are going to start with more tropical fish now, read up about them.
                                                                                                                        Probably time to get a good book to go along with the stuff you pull off the
                                                                                                                        Internet. I recommend the Baench _Aquarium Atlas_ as a good book for those
                                                                                                                        who are starting and want to do things right. Get Volume 1, and don't worry
                                                                                                                        about the other volumes for know. It has a good section on setting up and
                                                                                                                        maintaining an aquarium. It has a short, but good, section on live plants,
                                                                                                                        and, of course, lots and lots of fish.

                                                                                                                        Guppies can easily be kept at room temperature, 68-72^o F.+. Platies, as I
                                                                                                                        recollect, would be the same. despite their reputation as a "beginner's"
                                                                                                                        fish, mollies really are not, and I'd not recommend them for one who is just
                                                                                                                        learning how to do things right.

                                                                                                                        I'd probably throw in a couple of cory catfish to go with the guppies and
                                                                                                                        platies. They are relatively hardy, and pH is not critical for them, though
                                                                                                                        they tend to come from waters that are sub 7.0 pH, while the guppies and
                                                                                                                        platies are found inters that are more than 7.0 pH.

                                                                                                                        The guppies will stay, pretty much, in the top third of the tank. The
                                                                                                                        platies will also spend a lot of time in the top third of the tank. The
                                                                                                                        catfish you chose will mainly stay in the bottom third of the tank. You will
                                                                                                                        probably want to get a fish that will spend time in the middle third of the
                                                                                                                        tank.

                                                                                                                        ________________________________

                                                                                                                        From: Evita [mailto:evitabug@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 9:04 AM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can
                                                                                                                        get!


                                                                                                                        Ron, I had my goldfish about 3 years before they died....5 in a 20 gal
                                                                                                                        tank. They were very small feeder fish. They grew pretty big before they
                                                                                                                        died. I did try to get some really pretty fan tails and they never lived.
                                                                                                                        Everyone time I introduced one they died. So I decided not to get anymore.
                                                                                                                        Then all my goldfish died. The tank had been empty the last 5 months. I
                                                                                                                        was wanting to keep the fish I originally wanted tropical community fish but
                                                                                                                        I was a tad bit gun shy. Then a friend at work had a 30 gal tank with all
                                                                                                                        the stuff about 200.00 plus worth of tank for 30.00 and I couldn't resist.
                                                                                                                        This time I am starting slow and educated. So I looked on line for all the
                                                                                                                        info. I could. I found this group and two other as well. I now realize I
                                                                                                                        was totally at fault with my goldfish. I didn't know that water changes
                                                                                                                        were needed. I was just adding back the evaporated water. I guess I was
                                                                                                                        slowly killing them even though the water looked good. They developed
                                                                                                                        something that looked like tail rot which I read was due to poor water
                                                                                                                        quality. Yesterday I filled the tanks and everything looks clear. I WAS
                                                                                                                        WONDERING ....While cycling without fish what is the best water temp. to
                                                                                                                        keep my tanks at? Right now I am wanting guppies and platties. I wanted
                                                                                                                        Mollies say salt and pepper but I have read they might need different
                                                                                                                        conditions than the guppies. I am going out today to get my testers for the
                                                                                                                        water and just as a field-trip to look at the various fish as well as learn
                                                                                                                        about them. This time I am in no rush. I plan to take it slow adding fish
                                                                                                                        slowly to my tank. Any and all advice welcome. Thanks for all your help.
                                                                                                                        Oh I have the bucket (I bought yesterday) and a vacuum. Evita



                                                                                                                        Evita,

                                                                                                                        Feeders from the store are usually on their last legs and rarely
                                                                                                                        live long.

                                                                                                                        Why did your fish die? I don't know, but some possible reasons are:
                                                                                                                        contamination (something dropped into the tank), infrequent water
                                                                                                                        changes
                                                                                                                        (10-20% weekly minimum), rapid temperature change, heater failure
                                                                                                                        (either
                                                                                                                        water too cold or electrocution), disease, etc.

                                                                                                                        Please follow my advice to Rachel about getting a 5 gallon bucket
                                                                                                                        and
                                                                                                                        gravel vac and changing that much water weekly.

                                                                                                                        If you have municipal water, you probably only need to use a
                                                                                                                        dechlorinator. Test your PH and make sure it falls within about 6.5
                                                                                                                        to
                                                                                                                        8.0

                                                                                                                        Using bottled water or RO (reverse osmosis) or RO/DI water is not a
                                                                                                                        good
                                                                                                                        idea for freshwater. The RO filter will remove trace elements in
                                                                                                                        the
                                                                                                                        water that are needed. Carbon (charcoal) only filtration is fine.
                                                                                                                        But
                                                                                                                        again, I don't think there's anything wrong with your water as it
                                                                                                                        comes
                                                                                                                        out of the tap.

                                                                                                                        Remember that goldfish are not tropical fish and should not be kept
                                                                                                                        in
                                                                                                                        your community tank. They require cooler water temperatures and
                                                                                                                        will not
                                                                                                                        do well at the temperatures that a community tank requires.

                                                                                                                        Mollies, guppies, neons, tetras, etc. will do fine. Be careful with
                                                                                                                        "sucker catfish". The common pleco grows to 18" long. Other plecos
                                                                                                                        grow
                                                                                                                        to only 6". I don't have a problem in my 220 gallon tank, but you
                                                                                                                        would
                                                                                                                        in your 30 gallon. Research what you want to buy. Go to the store,
                                                                                                                        find
                                                                                                                        the fish you like, write down the names (the scientific or latin
                                                                                                                        names if
                                                                                                                        they're available) and go home and punch them into google
                                                                                                                        (http://www.google.com). <http://www.google.com)./> Find out if
                                                                                                                        they grow large, are agressive, etc.
                                                                                                                        BEFORE you buy them.

                                                                                                                        For example:
                                                                                                                        Red-Belly-Pacu's are cute and active fish. When full grown, they
                                                                                                                        are 24"
                                                                                                                        long.

                                                                                                                        Oscars are lovely pets, but at 12", you'll need a 75 gallon tank for
                                                                                                                        them.
                                                                                                                        Also, they'll eat smaller fish.




                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jade Evita" <evitabug@y...>
                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> Sorry in advance for the long intro. I posted this in another
                                                                                                                        > group
                                                                                                                        >> as well. I just joined the group, when I was looking on line for
                                                                                                                        > set-
                                                                                                                        >> up advice. I am not a beginner as it were with having fish tanks
                                                                                                                        > over
                                                                                                                        >> the years but this time I really want to do it right. It seems
                                                                                                                        in
                                                                                                                        >> the past I have been quilty as I am sure most are of setting up
                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                        >> tank and going in blindly hoping for the best. I have always had
                                                                                                                        > a
                                                                                                                        >> great love for the hobbie along with the best of intentions, yet
                                                                                                                        > of
                                                                                                                        >> course problems resulted. About five years ago we bought my
                                                                                                                        > oldest
                                                                                                                        >> daughter a 20 gallon set-up. It measures 24" long and 16" deep.
                                                                                                                        >> Being clueless we when got it I went to the local pet shop...
                                                                                                                        > (which
                                                                                                                        >> has since gone out of business), for advice on how to get
                                                                                                                        > started.
                                                                                                                        >> He gave us half advice and not much support. That is why I
                                                                                                                        > figured a
                                                                                                                        >> group like this was juist what I need. Anyway he told us in
                                                                                                                        order
                                                                                                                        > to
                                                                                                                        >> set up the tank and get the water ready we needed to put some
                                                                                                                        > hardy
                                                                                                                        >> fish in it and sold us about 6 gold-fish, (feeders I might add).
                                                                                                                        > The
                                                                                                                        >> first time we tried they all died, almost right away. We didn't
                                                                                                                        > know
                                                                                                                        >> why. I live out of the city and we figured it was our water,
                                                                                                                        >> although we didn't test it. We started over with his filter
                                                                                                                        water
                                                                                                                        >> and new goldfish and things seemed to be fine. The girls got
                                                                                                                        >> attached to the gold-fish and since they were feeders they just
                                                                                                                        >> didn't want to bring them back. We decided to keep them. We had
                                                                                                                        >> them about 4 years fine but with a few deaths along the way. But
                                                                                                                        > not
                                                                                                                        >> to get the post too long about 5 months ago suddenly they all
                                                                                                                        > died.
                                                                                                                        >> We left the tank empty the last few months. About two weeks ago
                                                                                                                        > we
                                                                                                                        >> thought of trying again. We wanted to do a community tank and
                                                                                                                        > breed
                                                                                                                        >> small guppies and mollies and what not. I had thought having
                                                                                                                        > another
                                                                                                                        >> larger tank would be great in the future so we could use the 20
                                                                                                                        >> gallon as a nursery for the babies to grow. I was talking at
                                                                                                                        work
                                                                                                                        >> and a lady I work at had one she had used about a year ago before
                                                                                                                        > she
                                                                                                                        >> got a larger tank. It is a 30 gallon 36" x 16". It came with
                                                                                                                        >> everything and is like new for only 30.00. I felt like I was
                                                                                                                        >> stealing it.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> Anyway This time I want to do it right. I found your site and
                                                                                                                        >> reading all the posts I can have discovered this hobbie is pure
                                                                                                                        >> science. I might add I was not the best at science. I really
                                                                                                                        > need
                                                                                                                        >> advice on starting out right. I was thinking of starting out by
                                                                                                                        >> getting a water filter for my kitchen sink, so I can use my own
                                                                                                                        > water
                                                                                                                        >> instid of driving miles to town with tons of jugs. Does anyone
                                                                                                                        > else
                                                                                                                        >> have water filters on their home sinks? I want to also set up
                                                                                                                        > both
                                                                                                                        >> tanks with water. I would like advice on that as well. I don't
                                                                                                                        >> really understand this cycling thing. This time I want to use
                                                                                                                        > fish
                                                                                                                        >> other than gold-fish, that we could keep in the tank. Can I use
                                                                                                                        >> black mollies or something like them? I was thinking of having
                                                                                                                        >> mollies, guppies, neons, maybe some of those sucker catfish. I
                                                                                                                        > look
                                                                                                                        >> forward to any and all advice to get me started right this time.
                                                                                                                        >> Both tanks are clean and ready for the next step....Water. Thanks
                                                                                                                        > in
                                                                                                                        >> advance. Evita
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9883 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Feeding
                                                                                                                        Depends on the species, and the age. Adults get fed less often, fry get fed
                                                                                                                        more often. Type of food depends on the needs of the fish.

                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        From: fish14162001 [mailto:fish14162001@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 3:30 AM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Feeding



                                                                                                                        I was just wondering how often everyone feeds thier fish. Thanks
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9884 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: help
                                                                                                                        Rams are very delicate fish they tend to do that
                                                                                                                        normally when the hardness is up so check it and as
                                                                                                                        well as the temperature!!

                                                                                                                        Nigel
                                                                                                                        --- Robert Hickey <rhickey@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hi Would someone be Able to give me some help please
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > My bolivian ram is sick and just gently resting on
                                                                                                                        > the bottom of the tank
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > seems to be gulping in water and out of his gills
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Tank is fine and clean and cycled
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > No signs of anything ich or swimbladder or anything
                                                                                                                        > else that Comes to mind
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Anyone help?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Cheers
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Rob
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Regards
                                                                                                                        > Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Senior Technical Professional Engineer
                                                                                                                        > Esat BT
                                                                                                                        > Unit C, Dundrum Business Park
                                                                                                                        > T +353 1 4328749
                                                                                                                        > M +353 86 8061840
                                                                                                                        > Email: rhickey@...
                                                                                                                        > www.esatbt.com
                                                                                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        > From: whatsdiggin
                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:33 PM
                                                                                                                        > Subject: [AquaticLife] Need a GOOD website
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hello everyone does anyone know of a good
                                                                                                                        > website for guppies and
                                                                                                                        > fry, that give alots of how to's, and infor.
                                                                                                                        > Well thanks alot and I hope everyone has a Great
                                                                                                                        > Day!!!!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Ruth
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9885 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: CO2 ?
                                                                                                                        YOU HAVE TOO MUCH CO2 DISSOLVED

                                                                                                                        nigel

                                                                                                                        --- Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 <alan.zelhart@...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:

                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                        One other short comment. I'm noticing in the last 3
                                                                                                                        or 4 days, lots more bubbles of <oxygen?> on the
                                                                                                                        plants in the aquarium. Especially in the afternoon.

                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                        Alan
                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                        http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                        -----
                                                                                                                        *** Five new gardening mail list now available on
                                                                                                                        GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                                                                        *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners',
                                                                                                                        ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
                                                                                                                        *** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening
                                                                                                                        list called "OutGardening".
                                                                                                                        *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can
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                                                                                                                        ***** I'd like to, but last time I went I never came
                                                                                                                        back..


                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30
                                                                                                                        [mailto:alan.zelhart@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 5:26 AM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 ?



                                                                                                                        I have a diffuser on mine, which dissolves the CO2
                                                                                                                        into smaller bits of air, and places them in the
                                                                                                                        water. That's probably a horrible scientific
                                                                                                                        explanation, but in answer to your question, on the
                                                                                                                        output tube, I see no bubbles coming out. My setup is
                                                                                                                        similar to the one on Foster and Smith, the only thing
                                                                                                                        I don't have is the fancy PH machine they have that
                                                                                                                        turns off the CO2 when the PH drops below a certain
                                                                                                                        level. I did all my adjustments on the weekend so I
                                                                                                                        could watch and make sure my PH didn't drop below that
                                                                                                                        certain level.

                                                                                                                        My understanding of the process is. Aquarium plants
                                                                                                                        use CO2 during the day for growth, and at night they
                                                                                                                        release oxygen. It's reported by some that there is
                                                                                                                        not enough CO2 in your aquarium water to really
                                                                                                                        satisfy most aquarium plants. Thus the reason for
                                                                                                                        adding more CO2 to the tank. Listen, I never would
                                                                                                                        have believed it, till I tried it. The difference in
                                                                                                                        one week is quite incredible. My passion is
                                                                                                                        gardening, but having an aquarium has always been a
                                                                                                                        hobby too, except I did take a break for several years
                                                                                                                        and am just getting back into it. When I read some of
                                                                                                                        the articles I read on adding CO2 to your tank, I
                                                                                                                        found it intriguing. Just as in gardening I love to
                                                                                                                        experiment with my plants and try new things, so with
                                                                                                                        my aquarium plants. I wanted to try it. So far so
                                                                                                                        good....hopefully next week I won't kill them all. I
                                                                                                                        have pictures from when I first set up the new plants,
                                                                                                                        which haven't done anything since I first put them in
                                                                                                                        there, except get yellowish green. Since I've!
                                                                                                                        added the CO2, the seem to be getting their vim and
                                                                                                                        vigor back. They are looking a darker, richer green,
                                                                                                                        and as I mentioned in a previous post, One particular
                                                                                                                        plant, of which I have 3 in the tank, I swear, I think
                                                                                                                        it's growing 1/4" to 1/2" a day. It's probably not
                                                                                                                        really growing that fast, time just seems to go by to
                                                                                                                        fast, but it sure seems like it.

                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                        Alan
                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                        http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                        -----
                                                                                                                        *** Five new gardening mail list now available on
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                                                                                                                        find your address.
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                                                                                                                        ***** I'd like to, but last time I went I never came
                                                                                                                        back..


                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        From: Nan [mailto:ntalb00@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:38 PM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 ?




                                                                                                                        Ok, I get somewhat why the CO2 is being added, I get
                                                                                                                        that it is
                                                                                                                        suppossed to (and probably does) improve your tank
                                                                                                                        plants, but now my
                                                                                                                        big question is, how does it work? I mean how does
                                                                                                                        the CO2 cannister
                                                                                                                        work? I was looking on Foster and Smith at the one
                                                                                                                        they have where
                                                                                                                        fermentation is neccessary to make it work, but what
                                                                                                                        exactly does it
                                                                                                                        do? Does it shoot CO2 into your water for your
                                                                                                                        plants? Is there a
                                                                                                                        tube like an airhose that you run down into the gravel
                                                                                                                        for the plants?
                                                                                                                        I know it is probably a stupid question, but so far I
                                                                                                                        have found no
                                                                                                                        answers on the web.

                                                                                                                        Thanks for your help!

                                                                                                                        ~nan and crew~






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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9886 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        Hello,

                                                                                                                        This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                                                                        a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        group.

                                                                                                                        File : /Organic Aquariums/Organic Aquariums.doc
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                                                                                                                        Description : This is all about Our Products

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                                                                                                                        sawatergeni <sawatergeni@...>
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9887 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        Hello,

                                                                                                                        This email message is a notification to let you know that
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                                                                                                                        group.

                                                                                                                        File : /Organic Aquariums/More Test Results Organic Aquariums.doc
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9888 From: Marius E. Gaybba Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Organic Aquariums
                                                                                                                        Hi Guys.

                                                                                                                        It is nice to be back and I hope We can Work together.
                                                                                                                        Thank You Aaron and the other Members that understand what We stand
                                                                                                                        for.

                                                                                                                        I hope We can work together this time.
                                                                                                                        I would not to create a War again.
                                                                                                                        As You will see We have done research in the Fresh Water Aquamarine
                                                                                                                        industry sins 1977 and I know that We can assist with most of Your
                                                                                                                        problems.We are Breeding Koi and Gold Fish successffuly.

                                                                                                                        So I loaded My Product info in the File secion this time and also
                                                                                                                        created a Photo File for those that might want to know what Our
                                                                                                                        Products look like.


                                                                                                                        Thank You
                                                                                                                        Marius
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9889 From: Charlene Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                        HI Can I put the sand and live sand and live rock in my 55 ga. tank.
                                                                                                                        When I start to Cycling the water. Or what can I put in it When it is
                                                                                                                        Cycling. Thank you for helping me. Charlene muffin44945@com
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9890 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                        add before cycling......your saltwater tank


                                                                                                                        In a message dated 4/2/2005 11:56:52 AM US Eastern Standard Time, muffin4494@... writes:



                                                                                                                        HI  Can  I put the sand and live sand and live rock in my 55 ga. tank.
                                                                                                                        When I start to Cycling the water. Or what can I put in it When it is
                                                                                                                        Cycling.  Thank you for helping me.  Charlene  muffin44945@com


                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9891 From: Eric Miner Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
                                                                                                                        Hi All,

                                                                                                                        I'm on the verge of getting my first tank. I want to get folk's
                                                                                                                        opinion of bow tanks vs. flat front tanks. Any comments? Good or Bad.

                                                                                                                        Thanks

                                                                                                                        Eric
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9892 From: whatsdiggin Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        I had my tank water tested yesterday at the pet store in town, they
                                                                                                                        said the water is good, and they don't know why my fry (guppies) are
                                                                                                                        dying? Could someone Please help!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9893 From: jim Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        --- what was tested for,, what temperature do you maintain,, size of
                                                                                                                        tank,, other inhabitants,, what are you feeding,, how is filtration?
                                                                                                                        you must give up more info if you really expect anything in this
                                                                                                                        format, as we cant see your fish or equipment, we have to rely only on
                                                                                                                        what you tell us,,, you must telll us more,,,,,,,,,,,,,jim



                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "whatsdiggin" <whatsdiggin@y...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I had my tank water tested yesterday at the pet store in town, they
                                                                                                                        > said the water is good, and they don't know why my fry (guppies) are
                                                                                                                        > dying? Could someone Please help!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9894 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
                                                                                                                        Rick, Just because your Angels are all getting along right now
                                                                                                                        peacefully doesn't necessarily mean that they are all females. At
                                                                                                                        normal selling size for small Angels (nickle to quarter size), they are
                                                                                                                        about 2 1/2 months old. Since you say you've had them about 6 months,
                                                                                                                        that means they are now about 8 1/2 months old (or there abouts).
                                                                                                                        Angels mature at about nine months of age. Yours are just approaching
                                                                                                                        maturity now. As such, I would start to keep a more watchful eye on
                                                                                                                        them in the next month or two. You may or may not have any "problems"
                                                                                                                        (hopefully you don't), and be advised, each Angel has a slightly
                                                                                                                        different "personality". With five fish, chances are still good that
                                                                                                                        you will get at least one pair. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                        \ --
                                                                                                                        - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, rca2745@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > In a message dated 4/1/2005 4:42:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                                                        > hrvoje.maric3@z... writes:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hrvoje
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hrvoje,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I always take advice from people who know more than me, That being
                                                                                                                        said, I
                                                                                                                        > have 5 angels in a tall 20 gal tank and apparently they are all of
                                                                                                                        the same sex
                                                                                                                        > or something because they cohabitate peacefully, as of yet(knock on
                                                                                                                        wood).
                                                                                                                        > They have been together in this tank for about 6 months.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > -Rick
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9895 From: zxav Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Powpets! Special Invitation for AquaticLife group.
                                                                                                                        Hi,

                                                                                                                        AquaticLife group is invited to join us at http://www.Powpets.com, a
                                                                                                                        newly launched pet lovers community, promoting love and interest
                                                                                                                        towards animals as well as to educate responsible pet guardianship
                                                                                                                        through active community building involvement.

                                                                                                                        As a way to say "Thank You" to our specially invited guest, you will
                                                                                                                        receive a Free Lifetime Powpets Rewards Account with 15MB of photo
                                                                                                                        storage space when you join our Powpets Network! This offer is
                                                                                                                        specially made ONLY to AquaticLife group owner.

                                                                                                                        Learn more about Powpets Rewards Account: http://rewards.powpets.com

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                                                                                                                        - Pet discussions forum
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                                                                                                                        Account within 24hours.



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                                                                                                                        Powpets! Moderator
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9896 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Temperature and Betta
                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Linda" <lkbrown3951@p...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I purchased two 2.5 gallon aquariums for my 2 Betta Oscar and
                                                                                                                        > Rasco last Friday night. I had Oscar in his new home with a
                                                                                                                        > heater and he really loves it.

                                                                                                                        I think my betta enjoys warmer water too. Where i live we are comming
                                                                                                                        into autum/winter and the ambient temperature is dropping. My betta
                                                                                                                        started sitting on top of my filter even though there was little water
                                                                                                                        above it, his fins actually went above the water line leaving him half
                                                                                                                        wet and lying on his side, a scary sight i must add.
                                                                                                                        Any ways I recently turned up the temperature on my heater (25.6
                                                                                                                        degrees C) and now my betta has become really happy again and swims all
                                                                                                                        around the tank.
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9897 From: paul helms Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                        put what you have listed in to start. in 2 weeks you
                                                                                                                        can add hermit crabs and a few snails to begin clean
                                                                                                                        up. in about 3-4 weeks, you can put in damsels. they
                                                                                                                        live through about anything, but they do become
                                                                                                                        territorial and aggrsessive towrds other fish. if you
                                                                                                                        want something in there, go with blue, green, or
                                                                                                                        yellow chromis. they are very mild mannered compared
                                                                                                                        to their cousin damsels, but just as hardy. damsels
                                                                                                                        and chromis run 3-4 dollars..
                                                                                                                        --- Charlene <muffin4494@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > HI Can I put the sand and live sand and live rock
                                                                                                                        > in my 55 ga. tank.
                                                                                                                        > When I start to Cycling the water. Or what can I put
                                                                                                                        > in it When it is
                                                                                                                        > Cycling. Thank you for helping me. Charlene
                                                                                                                        > muffin44945@com
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >



                                                                                                                        __________________________________
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9898 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Whisper Micro Filter and Betta outlet flow hose
                                                                                                                        I did a quick search on the Whisper Micro Filter, it only pumps 265
                                                                                                                        litters per hour which is fine for your tank as it circulates the
                                                                                                                        tank twice an hour.

                                                                                                                        My one at home is much much much stronger its 1200 litters per hour
                                                                                                                        and I have a 4ft x 2.5ft x 18in tank (90gallons) and my filter
                                                                                                                        circulates the tank three times an hour.



                                                                                                                        My better has often swum into the main stream of the filter and was
                                                                                                                        blown from one end of the tank all the way to the other end, but he
                                                                                                                        hasn't developed a fear of the filter - actually its second most
                                                                                                                        favourite place in the tank.

                                                                                                                        I think maybe you should just let your Betta get use to the filter
                                                                                                                        because it shouldn't bother him based on my experience.




                                                                                                                        Suggestion to prevent flying Bettas!
                                                                                                                        ------------------------------------
                                                                                                                        More recently I went down to Bunnings (a hardware store) and brought
                                                                                                                        a long bit of clear hose about the length of my tank 4ft, it only
                                                                                                                        cost about AUSTRALIAN$2.50 and has the same size diameter as the
                                                                                                                        outlet pipe on my filter.

                                                                                                                        The goal was to place the hose over the outlet of the filter then
                                                                                                                        make lots of smaller holes all along the length of the hose and put
                                                                                                                        a cork in the other end of the hose hence reduce the strength of the
                                                                                                                        outlet water to as little as possible.


                                                                                                                        This has worked a treat and even the guppies don't get blown around
                                                                                                                        the tank or onto the rocks. I must mention thou one potential draw
                                                                                                                        back is the actual circulating speed of the tank has slowed down but
                                                                                                                        for me this was a benefit cause all the other fish in the community
                                                                                                                        can now swim against the current instead of hiding behind rocks.

                                                                                                                        I roughly measured the time it takes for a dead leaf to float from
                                                                                                                        one end of the tank to the other. To start with it was about 5
                                                                                                                        seconds but after the improved outlet hose it is now 15 seconds.

                                                                                                                        Initial flow rate of 1.5 meters per 5 seconds or 30cms/second.
                                                                                                                        Final flow rate of 1.5 meters per 15 seconds or 10cms/second.



                                                                                                                        FYI - My Betta had no trouble swimming against either of these
                                                                                                                        currents excluding the main outlet stream.




                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Linda" <lkbrown3951@p...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I purchased two 2.5 gallon aquariums for my 2 Betta Oscar and
                                                                                                                        > Rasco last Friday night.
                                                                                                                        > ...
                                                                                                                        > I was told that it was alright to use the Whisper Micro Filter
                                                                                                                        > that came with the tank and it was a good idea to have one.
                                                                                                                        > Tonight after work ... I added the Whisper Micro Filter...
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Poor Oscar freaked out! especially when I turned it on. I think
                                                                                                                        > he is very afraid of it. I ended up taking him out of his tank.
                                                                                                                        > I think he is doing better, but I also think he is totally pissed
                                                                                                                        > off at me for doing this [to him]. It was like he could not swim
                                                                                                                        > when the filter was turned on. I had it turned on low.
                                                                                                                        > ...
                                                                                                                        > Any suggestions?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Betta Smooches for now
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9899 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Birth Patterns of Platties
                                                                                                                        Well from what I under stand they are similar to guppies.

                                                                                                                        I brought a breading trap to put inside my bigger tank. When I put
                                                                                                                        two females in it together they only produced a couple of babies I
                                                                                                                        think each were scared the other would eat all there off spring. So
                                                                                                                        I removed one of the mums and hay presto the other dumped the whole
                                                                                                                        lot in about half an hour then I returned that mum and put the other
                                                                                                                        mum in but she wouldn't drop her babies till I did a 25% water
                                                                                                                        change.

                                                                                                                        The other mum who was still in the tank still did drop here babies
                                                                                                                        well actually I thought i saw her drop on but as soon as she did
                                                                                                                        another daddy Guppies gobbled it up.

                                                                                                                        My mummy guppies that I leave in the tank never seam to give birth
                                                                                                                        or if they do itfs as you say one baby at a time.


                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "karima_allison" <karima@i...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I have a pregnant Platty in my tank, and last night I saw (just by
                                                                                                                        > chance) a tiny baby swimming towards the bottom of the tank
                                                                                                                        > but the mother is still pregnant - looks like she is going to
                                                                                                                        > burst :-)
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > My question is, what is the birthing patterns of Platties? Can
                                                                                                                        > they drop one and then a few days later drop another, etc.?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I also have two other babies that must have been born from this
                                                                                                                        > Platty, (because of the color - exactly like her and she is the
                                                                                                                        > only female of her type in the tank). These two babies are not
                                                                                                                        > the same size, but must be from different birthing times.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Sorry for my lack of the proper terms for these sorts of things,
                                                                                                                        > but I'm new at this. Some of my other Platties had babies last
                                                                                                                        > month and I count about 30 in all. They are three different
                                                                                                                        > colors and about 5 different sizes . . . .
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > ~Karima
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9900 From: melly0s Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        i saw this on a post from a fish forum.
                                                                                                                        you should read the "Questions from other buyers" and his smart a$$
                                                                                                                        answer.

                                                                                                                        the video will tick you off.

                                                                                                                        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20755&item=4370111147&rd=1#ebayphotohosting


                                                                                                                        just frustrated and had to get it out.sorry for the rant.
                                                                                                                        love this group though!
                                                                                                                        mel
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9901 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
                                                                                                                        Flat front from me! with a bow you will have see fish
                                                                                                                        LONGGGGG or rounder or something like that due to its
                                                                                                                        shape!

                                                                                                                        Nigel

                                                                                                                        --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------

                                                                                                                        Hi All,

                                                                                                                        I'm on the verge of getting my first tank. I want to
                                                                                                                        get folk's
                                                                                                                        opinion of bow tanks vs. flat front tanks. Any
                                                                                                                        comments? Good or Bad.

                                                                                                                        Thanks

                                                                                                                        Eric





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                        replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that
                                                                                                                        is not important to the reply and if changing the
                                                                                                                        topic of the original message modify the subject line
                                                                                                                        -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                        Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9902 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Huge international betta show in Brisbane
                                                                                                                        YES YES PLEASE!!!!

                                                                                                                        TM please send it to me!


                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bettamuse" <bettamuse@y...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I thought I would take the opportunity to tell all the Aussies,
                                                                                                                        specially the Brisbane folk
                                                                                                                        > that there is the Pet and Hobby expo (April 15-17)fish show, this
                                                                                                                        is put on by the local fish
                                                                                                                        > clubs and run by QFAS.
                                                                                                                        > Part of it will be the First International Betta show held in
                                                                                                                        Australia. There are over 180
                                                                                                                        > International fish being sent over for the show as well as local
                                                                                                                        fish, that means there is
                                                                                                                        > well over 200 bettas on show. Should be quite a sight.
                                                                                                                        > The good news for the aussies is that all the overseas competitors
                                                                                                                        fish will be sold off after
                                                                                                                        > the show as it is too difficult to return them. So if anyone is
                                                                                                                        interested in showing their
                                                                                                                        > bettas or just would like the opportunity to buy a top quality
                                                                                                                        show fish, many
                                                                                                                        > internationals sent matching females to sell, let me know and I'll
                                                                                                                        give you the contact
                                                                                                                        > E-mail address to find out more.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Cheers
                                                                                                                        > BM
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9903 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        are they eating something? are they ok i mean do they
                                                                                                                        have some defects or are he fry healthy themselves.
                                                                                                                        they coudl a genetic defect as well due to the amount
                                                                                                                        of selective breeding of guppies

                                                                                                                        NIgel


                                                                                                                        --- whatsdiggin <whatsdiggin@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------

                                                                                                                        I had my tank water tested yesterday at the pet store
                                                                                                                        in town, they
                                                                                                                        said the water is good, and they don't know why my fry
                                                                                                                        (guppies) are
                                                                                                                        dying? Could someone Please help!





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                        replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that
                                                                                                                        is not important to the reply and if changing the
                                                                                                                        topic of the original message modify the subject line
                                                                                                                        -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                        Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/

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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9904 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!
                                                                                                                        I live in Brisbane (Queensland, Australia) there is a company here
                                                                                                                        called 'Aquarium Science' and the product is called 'Fungus & Finrot
                                                                                                                        Remedy' they also make heaps of other products, ive got the address on
                                                                                                                        the bottle if you need it.

                                                                                                                        The bottle says 'Active Constituents: 2.0mg/ml Acriflavine and 0.4mg/ml
                                                                                                                        Malachite Green'


                                                                                                                        I'm not sure if its the best brand but i got 500ml for AU$16.85 from my
                                                                                                                        LFS and its supposed to treat 2000 liters (almost 530 gal).

                                                                                                                        All my fish are happy and seams to have worked, i also raised the temp
                                                                                                                        in the tank to 25.5 degrees C (77.9F) which also made my Betta happier.




                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rei - Raymond Tremor"
                                                                                                                        <rei_tremor@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > What brand of fin rot medicine are you using? I want to get some
                                                                                                                        > of that if it is that good. Thanks.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                        > LoveMoAko@H...
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > From: Nicolas J. Munro
                                                                                                                        > Date: 03/31/05 23:05:37
                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: betta tail biting?!?!
                                                                                                                        >...
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9905 From: ruth eubanks Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        Jim,  I had the water tested for ammonia and the pet store said it was good.The water temp is 76 - 78. The pet store says 78 - 82 ? Its a 10 gal. tank. I feed them powered flakes 4 times a day. For the filter I have a UGF and it is working good, I have been useing the black carb w/ filter fiber. Just bought some new carbon, its a blend of the black carbon and the gray, and I put the filter fiber in as well.  And for the water changes it come out to be 3 gallon, once a week, And I check the temp of the water before I put it into the tank to make sure the temp is the same. I have well water and the ph is 7.8, the pet store that the ph is fine? Thanks for your time.
                                                                                                                                                                                       Thanks again,
                                                                                                                                                                                            Ruth    
                                                                                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                        jim <alls2@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        --- what was tested for,, what temperature do you maintain,, size of
                                                                                                                        tank,, other inhabitants,, what are you feeding,, how is filtration?  
                                                                                                                        you must give up more info if you really expect anything in this
                                                                                                                        format, as we cant see your fish or equipment, we have to rely only on
                                                                                                                        what you tell us,,, you must telll us more,,,,,,,,,,,,,jim



                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "whatsdiggin" <whatsdiggin@y...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I had my tank water tested yesterday at the pet store in town, they
                                                                                                                        > said the water is good, and they don't know why my fry (guppies) are
                                                                                                                        > dying? Could someone Please help!





                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                        Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9906 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
                                                                                                                        Ya know, one of the things i hate is how a tank gets a bow in it.

                                                                                                                        I brought glass twice the recommended thickness to avoid this problem
                                                                                                                        which worked for about 3 weeks but now its got that really annoying
                                                                                                                        lens effect.

                                                                                                                        If you can find a bow tank filled with water which has fish, check the
                                                                                                                        effect caused by the bow if you like that then go for it otherwise your
                                                                                                                        probably out of luck cause a flat one dosn't stay flat for ever.


                                                                                                                        Also a thing to note, all the bow fronts ive seen are made of plastic
                                                                                                                        which i have been told scratches raltivly easy especially by rocks etc.
                                                                                                                        ive been told for that reason you should get glass.

                                                                                                                        Glass is supposed to be easyer to clean using a razer or scraper or
                                                                                                                        even a simple spunge. not sure if a razor is a good thing in a plastic
                                                                                                                        tank youd have to ask a couple of the others.


                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Miner" <eminer1254@y...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hi All,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I'm on the verge of getting my first tank. I want to get folk's
                                                                                                                        > opinion of bow tanks vs. flat front tanks. Any comments? Good or Bad.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Thanks
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Eric
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9907 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        From the bottom of the document

                                                                                                                        > We are currently keeping and raising 500 Koi of about 15cm to 20cm
                                                                                                                        > in length in about 4000 Liters of Water in a 3 Meter Porte Pool.
                                                                                                                        > Our filter consist of a 200 Liter Plastic Drum with Gravel " VERY
                                                                                                                        > FINE STONES " , Sand and Filter-wool. A Water rotation of about
                                                                                                                        > 1000 Liters per Hour. The Water condition stays very good and we
                                                                                                                        > Changed a third of the Water every three Months, and with a 25%
                                                                                                                        > to 30% growth rate in 45 Day's.

                                                                                                                        I thought we were supposed to circulate the water in our tanks
                                                                                                                        between 3 and 10 times an hour to provide sufficent filtering and
                                                                                                                        biological growth.

                                                                                                                        That would mean you need to increase the flow rate of your filter to
                                                                                                                        between 8,000 to 12,000 or even 40,000 liters per hour.

                                                                                                                        My own tank at home which is about 350 liters has a filter which
                                                                                                                        circulates 1200 liters per hour so if you have a tank 10 times
                                                                                                                        larger you need a filter ten times larger than my tank.



                                                                                                                        Feedback welcomed!



                                                                                                                        I was impressed with this comment from the start of the document:

                                                                                                                        >We treated Dams in Agricultural sectors, which had serious
                                                                                                                        >problems, like BLUE - GREEN ALGAE (CY-NO Bacteria), OVER LOAD OF
                                                                                                                        >SLUDGE, SULPHER PRODUCTION in the under layer and ECOLI " FECAL "
                                                                                                                        >pollution. Within the first Week all these kind of Problems were
                                                                                                                        >eliminated after treatments. It totally turns the water condition
                                                                                                                        >positively around. Our projects included treating trout-farms with
                                                                                                                        >Blue Green Algae, which influenced the taste of the Fish (MUD) and
                                                                                                                        >made it toxic. After treating the Dam (68 million Liters) with Our
                                                                                                                        >Organical Product, the water totally cleared and produced billions
                                                                                                                        >of DAPHNIA. The Oxygen levels went up to 80% and the Harvest was
                                                                                                                        >the Best Graded in Sizes, Taste Color and structure. The technical
                                                                                                                        >functions that benefited for the Fish Industry will now be
                                                                                                                        >explained.

                                                                                                                        68 million Liters of water is huge, maybe your product does work
                                                                                                                        after all and i should take back my comment of a month ago.


                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hello,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                                                                        > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        > group.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > File : /Organic Aquariums/More Test Results Organic
                                                                                                                        Aquariums.doc
                                                                                                                        > Uploaded by : sawatergeni <sawatergeni@y...>
                                                                                                                        > Description : More test results.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Organic%
                                                                                                                        20Aquariums/More%20Test%20Results%20Organic%20Aquariums.doc
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
                                                                                                                        > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Regards,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > sawatergeni <sawatergeni@y...>
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9908 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
                                                                                                                        Yep, the lense effect is very annoying. It looks nice when you look at it
                                                                                                                        first or when guests are visiting but if you are a person who spends hours
                                                                                                                        in front of the tank then you can get a headache very easily.

                                                                                                                        I would not mind a bow front as another tank but my main tank has to be
                                                                                                                        flat. I have a 40L betta bow front tank but lense effect is not evident in
                                                                                                                        such small tanks.

                                                                                                                        Nim


                                                                                                                        ________________________________________
                                                                                                                        From: Nicolas J. Munro [mailto:nedarg@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: 02 April 2005 23:54
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks


                                                                                                                        Ya know, one of the things i hate is how a tank gets a bow in it.

                                                                                                                        I brought glass twice the recommended thickness  to avoid this problem
                                                                                                                        which worked for about 3 weeks but now its got that really annoying
                                                                                                                        lens effect.

                                                                                                                        If you can find a bow tank filled with water which has fish, check the
                                                                                                                        effect caused by the bow if you like that then go for it otherwise your
                                                                                                                        probably out of luck cause a flat one dosn't stay flat for ever.


                                                                                                                        Also a thing to note, all the bow fronts ive seen are made of plastic
                                                                                                                        which i have been told scratches raltivly easy especially by rocks etc.
                                                                                                                        ive been told for that reason you should get glass.

                                                                                                                        Glass is supposed to be easyer to clean using a razer or scraper or
                                                                                                                        even a simple spunge. not sure if a razor is a good thing in a plastic
                                                                                                                        tank youd have to ask a couple of the others.


                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Miner" <eminer1254@y...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hi All,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I'm on the verge of getting my first tank. I want to get folk's
                                                                                                                        > opinion of bow tanks vs. flat front tanks. Any comments? Good or Bad.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Thanks
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Eric





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
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                                                                                                                        the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
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                                                                                                                        in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                        ________________________________________
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9909 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        Good ammonia reading would be zero. Was the reading zero? Nitrates and
                                                                                                                        Nitrites are also important, nitrites less so. Get your own test kits and do
                                                                                                                        the testing yourself.

                                                                                                                        There should be no reason to be using carbon in your tank. Generally carbon
                                                                                                                        should be used for a specific purpose, say to remove medication used in the
                                                                                                                        tank after the course of treatment has been finished. Carbon will remove
                                                                                                                        things that you would want to stay in the water as well as things you'd like
                                                                                                                        to have removed. When the carbon has become loaded, and is no longer
                                                                                                                        effective, it will release compounds back into the water, possibly compounds
                                                                                                                        more toxic than those that were removed, and there is no accurate way of
                                                                                                                        telling when carbon has reached the end of its usefulness.

                                                                                                                        Guppies will do quite well at a temperature of 72-74^o F. Warmer
                                                                                                                        temperatures are used to increase growth (they eat more food), or reduce the
                                                                                                                        period of gestation (to increase the number of births when doing a breeding
                                                                                                                        program).

                                                                                                                        The pH of your water is fine for guppies. The do like water that is in that
                                                                                                                        range, so long as the hardness is there as well. (For those of you who might
                                                                                                                        question this comment, it is possible for water of a low pH to have a high
                                                                                                                        KH and the opposite is true. It does not happen that often, but it is far
                                                                                                                        from unheard of.) again, I urge you to get your own test kits so you can do
                                                                                                                        these tests your self, and be able to give accurate figures.

                                                                                                                        ________________________________

                                                                                                                        From: ruth eubanks [mailto:whatsdiggin@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 5:46 PM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Still need help fry are still dying


                                                                                                                        Jim, I had the water tested for ammonia and the pet store said it was
                                                                                                                        good.The water temp is 76 - 78. The pet store says 78 - 82 ? Its a 10 gal.
                                                                                                                        tank. I feed them powered flakes 4 times a day. For the filter I have a UGF
                                                                                                                        and it is working good, I have been useing the black carb w/ filter fiber.
                                                                                                                        Just bought some new carbon, its a blend of the black carbon and the gray,
                                                                                                                        and I put the filter fiber in as well. And for the water changes it come
                                                                                                                        out to be 3 gallon, once a week, And I check the temp of the water before I
                                                                                                                        put it into the tank to make sure the temp is the same. I have well water
                                                                                                                        and the ph is 7.8, the pet store that the ph is fine? Thanks for your time.
                                                                                                                        Thanks again,
                                                                                                                        Ruth

                                                                                                                        jim <alls2@...> wrote:


                                                                                                                        --- what was tested for,, what temperature do you maintain,, size of

                                                                                                                        tank,, other inhabitants,, what are you feeding,, how is filtration?

                                                                                                                        you must give up more info if you really expect anything in this
                                                                                                                        format, as we cant see your fish or equipment, we have to rely only
                                                                                                                        on
                                                                                                                        what you tell us,,, you must telll us more,,,,,,,,,,,,,jim



                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "whatsdiggin" <whatsdiggin@y...>

                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I had my tank water tested yesterday at the pet store in town,
                                                                                                                        they
                                                                                                                        > said the water is good, and they don't know why my fry (guppies)
                                                                                                                        are
                                                                                                                        > dying? Could someone Please help!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9910 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Feeding
                                                                                                                        twice per day.

                                                                                                                        fish14162001 <fish14162001@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        I was just wondering how often everyone feeds thier fish. Thanks





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9911 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        THAT IS AWFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                                                                                                        melly0s <melly0s@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        i saw this on a post from a fish forum.
                                                                                                                        you should read the "Questions from other buyers" and his smart a$$
                                                                                                                        answer.

                                                                                                                        the video will tick you off.

                                                                                                                        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20755&item=4370111147&rd=1#ebayphotohosting


                                                                                                                        just frustrated and had to get it out.sorry for the rant.
                                                                                                                        love this group though!
                                                                                                                        mel





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9912 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                        you can put in the lr & ls while you're cycling. then you can add some cleanup crew after a few weeks once there's enough algae for them.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        but after lr is added don't put in fish for at least a month unless your lr is super-cured.

                                                                                                                        Charlene <muffin4494@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        HI  Can  I put the sand and live sand and live rock in my 55 ga. tank.
                                                                                                                        When I start to Cycling the water. Or what can I put in it When it is
                                                                                                                        Cycling.  Thank you for helping me.  Charlene  muffin44945@com





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9913 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        at 8 tenths of a gallon without gravel, I can't imagine a happy betta. The video shows 100% water changes through a funnel.. ALL  i can think is stress for the fish.
                                                                                                                        But if there is a market for it, it will be made and sold.....

                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                        Indiana


                                                                                                                        In a message dated 4/2/2005 10:02:25 PM US Eastern Standard Time, valeendgonzalez@... writes:


                                                                                                                        the video will tick you off.

                                                                                                                        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20755&item=4370111147&rd=1#ebayphotohosting



                                                                                                                        just frustrated and had to get it out.sorry for the rant.


                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9914 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        I really do know this is going to stir up a bunch of radicals. :)
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                            At first it looked bad, mostly because the size of it was hard to judge.  I was thinking 1 quart.  Then I watched the video and saw what it was.  It is a great idea.  Really, I don't see the problem, and I'm normally on the side of giving bettas more room.  As person who has bred bettas, I can say that they can live as happily in a tall but thin environment as they can a wide but shallow tank.  This is wide, narrow, and tall, all in one tank.  You have all these 1 pint hex bowls with no lid or heat, and people are complaining about this?  I really do think people should pick their battles more carefully.  It looks to be at least a 3 quarts.  His care tips were almost perfect in my opinion (compared to those care kits that say don't worry about water changes)  Notice that it was not a 100% change because a lot of the water was poured back in with the betta.  This is very similar to my maintenance on my fry jars and bowls (and probably the same as 90% of the other betta breeders), only I don't remove the bettas when I remove the water.  Large water changes (75% in this case) simply do not cause stress.  That is a very old myth that goes back to the days of no water changes.
                                                                                                                            The main problem with small bowls is that unless they are kept in a warm place, they cool down quickly.  This thing looks thick enough to hold in a lot of heat at night when the light is off.  That is another thing, this thing has a light!  If it wasn't for the extremely high price (this thing should cost no more than $7 in my opinion, but it might cost him more than that to make it because it is probably not mass produced) I would consider this a great alternative to my gallon jars, mainly because of the light. 
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9915 From: khamul1of9 Date: 4/2/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Hi, need help in new tank setup.
                                                                                                                        I've just set up a half land/half water paludarium. The water portion
                                                                                                                        in big enough to support some fish. Its about 2 feet surface area and
                                                                                                                        about 2.5 inches deep. The water level changes about .5 inches above
                                                                                                                        and below the 2.5 inches. Was wondering what kind of fish you all
                                                                                                                        would recomend for this little stream simulation. It has a water pump
                                                                                                                        creating a current in the water so the water is not still. Also, I
                                                                                                                        have hidden in the water (under the gravel) bags of ammonia chips and
                                                                                                                        carbon for adequate filtration.
                                                                                                                        Do bettas dislike water with a current? Its not very strong.
                                                                                                                        I was also thinking about danios or neon tetras.
                                                                                                                        Thanks.
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9916 From: Evita Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        The funny thing is it looks like it was made from these blocks that are used in construction.  I saw a piece done on home improvements where they used these blocks on both sides of a front door so more natural light would come in and distort the view as not to let people see in your house.  They were stacked together with mortor.  I have a feeling all this guy does is drill a hole in the top.  Evita

                                                                                                                        melly0s <melly0s@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        i saw this on a post from a fish forum.
                                                                                                                        you should read the "Questions from other buyers" and his smart a$$
                                                                                                                        answer.

                                                                                                                        the video will tick you off.

                                                                                                                        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20755&item=4370111147&rd=1#ebayphotohosting


                                                                                                                        just frustrated and had to get it out.sorry for the rant.
                                                                                                                        love this group though!
                                                                                                                        mel





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                        Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun.
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9917 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        Hi Ruth, Thanks for giving us this little bit of additional
                                                                                                                        information. Your previous post said that your lfs indicated that
                                                                                                                        your water was okay (I presumed it was). Now you are saying that
                                                                                                                        they tested for ammonia (which is good), but did they test for
                                                                                                                        nitrites? I also suggest you buy your own test kits, as Steve
                                                                                                                        mentioned, and do these tests yourself; its not hard to do. If your
                                                                                                                        nitrites are up, or if you even suspect they were up recently, you
                                                                                                                        fish could be suffering from a condition called "brown blood", a
                                                                                                                        result of nitrite poisoning. Since you're not sure about this
                                                                                                                        quality (amount of nitrite past or present) I suggest, unless you
                                                                                                                        have catfish and/or plants in that tank, that you add salt to their
                                                                                                                        water. Salt negates (nullifies) the poisonous effects of nitrites
                                                                                                                        and is certainly worth trying even if you're not sure about the
                                                                                                                        recent nitrite level. Using Kosher salt (preferably not iodized
                                                                                                                        table sale), add a total of 2 tsp. of salt per gallon over a period
                                                                                                                        of two days -- in other words, 1 tsp. per gallon each day, for 2
                                                                                                                        days. When making water changes, don't forget to replace the amount
                                                                                                                        of salt you took out. Best of luck. Ray
                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ruth eubanks <whatsdiggin@y...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        > Jim, I had the water tested for ammonia and the pet store said it
                                                                                                                        was good.The water temp is 76 - 78. The pet store says 78 - 82 ? Its
                                                                                                                        a 10 gal. tank. I feed them powered flakes 4 times a day. For the
                                                                                                                        filter I have a UGF and it is working good, I have been useing the
                                                                                                                        black carb w/ filter fiber. Just bought some new carbon, its a blend
                                                                                                                        of the black carbon and the gray, and I put the filter fiber in as
                                                                                                                        well. And for the water changes it come out to be 3 gallon, once a
                                                                                                                        week, And I check the temp of the water before I put it into the tank
                                                                                                                        to make sure the temp is the same. I have well water and the ph is
                                                                                                                        7.8, the pet store that the ph is fine? Thanks for your time.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Thanks again,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Ruth
                                                                                                                        >


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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9918 From: Evita Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        Steve, excuse me.  Are you saying that one needs a pool basically to keep a goldfish and a cup to keep a Beta?  My fish were very tiny....Now I am just plain flabber gasted.  I feel like you are attacking me some how.  I am wondering if anyone in the group keeps goldfish.  I didn't have a bowl I had a 20 gal tank.  They were way under the limit as far as inches.  My problem was I wasn't aware of the water changes needed.  Most people start with goldfish thinking they are easy ...I never heard someone say  get a 30 gal tank and put one 2.00 goldfish in it and never add anymore.  Now around here a 150 gal. tank would run you about 500.00 plus.  If they are that hard to keep why would anyone keep them?  I realize you are trying to help but...
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        I have been working a ton lately and have barely had time to read all my new mail must less answer it.  For that I am really sorry.  I had no idea how much and many comments I would get.    Oh, yesterday I was able to buy some books off of a friend.  Beginner type books she no longer needed and it is proving to be very helpful as well.  I haven't had time to post them as of yet but these are my numbers for yesterday.  This is day four of my tanks being filled with water.  I posted this insert in another group.  My tanks are still clear and I am trying to get the heat settings at about 72-75.  This is hit and miss for me right now.  I have them at 78 right now.  Thanks again in advance. 
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        I filled my
                                                                                                                        tanks up at the same time 3 days ago. I added decloriner and I am
                                                                                                                        just letting them sit as of know to let it cycle. I tested the water
                                                                                                                        this morning on both tanks and not surprizenly they are the same.
                                                                                                                        Here are my staits as they were:

                                                                                                                        Nitrate- 20 on the chart says OK, Nitrite between 0- .5 Middle
                                                                                                                        between caution and safe I am saying around 2.5 range, My hardness
                                                                                                                        is 75 which they call soft, The Alkalinity is at 40 which it says
                                                                                                                        good, and my ph is 6.8.


                                                                                                                        I am planning a water change possibly in a week. Which is the best
                                                                                                                        time to do a non-fish water change. Do I need to see my numbers go
                                                                                                                        up first since I have no fish as of yet? I am trying to get the
                                                                                                                        tanks suitable to add my first few fish and add other fish slowly. I
                                                                                                                        was told by the pet-shop I could add fish in a week ...two weeks to
                                                                                                                        be safe, but I have read with starting up it is best to do at least a
                                                                                                                        30 day non-fish cycle before adding fish. The pet-shops really don't
                                                                                                                        care because if the fish die they just sell you more. It isn't in
                                                                                                                        their interest to prevent fish deaths. I don't want to kill fish to
                                                                                                                        find out if my tanks are ready. I would rather be safe than sorry.

                                                                                                                        Sorry so long. I have one more silly question
                                                                                                                        that bugs me on the subject of the number of fish to keep for the
                                                                                                                        water gal of the tank. They say so many inches of fish but that the
                                                                                                                        size isn't a factor. I was thinking community fish platies and
                                                                                                                        guppies to start. I thought of Mollies and have sore of changed my
                                                                                                                        mind a bit on them. But in regards to the platies and guppies, why
                                                                                                                        do they count the same in length even though guppies seem so much
                                                                                                                        smaller. For my 30 gal they said no more than 15 fish or guppies
                                                                                                                        size in that range. The guppies are so small, at 15 guppies you
                                                                                                                        might hardly see or notice them at all. The larger in size but the
                                                                                                                        same in length platies would make the tank look much fuller. So why
                                                                                                                        are they counted the same. What about those (SORRY FORGOT THE NAME}
                                                                                                                        long snake like skinny fish that stay on the bottom. They a really
                                                                                                                        small but at the same time about 4 inches long. I thought one also
                                                                                                                        took into consideration where the fish feed and live like bottom,
                                                                                                                        middle and top as well as being bigger in size not just head to tail
                                                                                                                        length.

                                                                                                                        Anyway look forward to any and all comments for new-bees. Thanks,
                                                                                                                        Hope I am not to chatty....I tend to be that way. Evita



                                                                                                                         Evita

                                                                                                                        Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        FWIW, a goldfish should live 20+ years. An adult goldfish should have a
                                                                                                                        minimum of 30 gallons of water per fish--for your 5, you should have had a
                                                                                                                        tank of 120-150 gallons.

                                                                                                                        Goldfish are messy fish. They produce a lot of waste. Someone mentioned
                                                                                                                        earlier cleaning the filter once a month--bad idea. Especially for fish like
                                                                                                                        goldfish, a filter should be serviced at least once a week, or when the flow
                                                                                                                        of water slows.

                                                                                                                        If you are going to start with more tropical fish now, read up about them.
                                                                                                                        Probably time to get a good book to go along with the stuff you pull off the
                                                                                                                        Internet. I recommend the Baench _Aquarium Atlas_ as a good book for those
                                                                                                                        who are starting and want to do things right. Get Volume 1, and don't worry
                                                                                                                        about the other volumes for know. It has a good section on setting up and
                                                                                                                        maintaining an aquarium. It has a short, but good, section on live plants,
                                                                                                                        and, of course, lots and lots of fish.

                                                                                                                        Guppies can easily be kept at room temperature, 68-72^o F.+. Platies, as I
                                                                                                                        recollect, would be the same. despite their reputation as a "beginner's"
                                                                                                                        fish, mollies really are not, and I'd not recommend them for one who is just
                                                                                                                        learning how to do things right.

                                                                                                                        I'd probably throw in a couple of cory catfish to go with the guppies and
                                                                                                                        platies. They are relatively hardy, and pH is not critical for them, though
                                                                                                                        they tend to come from waters that are sub 7.0 pH, while the guppies and
                                                                                                                        platies are found inters that are more than 7.0 pH.

                                                                                                                        The guppies will stay, pretty much, in the top third of the tank. The
                                                                                                                        platies will also spend a lot of time in the top third of the tank. The
                                                                                                                        catfish you chose will mainly stay in the bottom third of the tank. You will
                                                                                                                        probably want to get a fish that will spend time in the middle third of the
                                                                                                                        tank.


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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9919 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        Nicholas and Others, The larger the fish receptacle, the less water
                                                                                                                        turnover rate is needed. This is not to be confused with flow
                                                                                                                        (velocity) rate. Tanks and ponds are two different (even though
                                                                                                                        similar) worlds. As a general rule, it is established that ponds of
                                                                                                                        a capacity of 500 Liters require that amount to be turned over and
                                                                                                                        filtered once every hour. For ponds of 500 to 1500 Liters, once
                                                                                                                        every two hours is sufficient. For ponds 1500 to 5000 Liters, once
                                                                                                                        every three hours is sufficient and for ponds over 5000 Liters, a
                                                                                                                        turnover of once every four hours is alright. Naturally, this can
                                                                                                                        vary somewhat depending upon fish load. For best biological
                                                                                                                        filtration, the retention time (which is essential) can be maintained
                                                                                                                        with the increased flow rate by increasing the filter size. Your
                                                                                                                        water rotation can (ought to) be increased to 1400 - 1500 Liters per
                                                                                                                        hour, with a correspondingly larger filter area; especially important
                                                                                                                        as the fish grow. Also with increased fish growth, I would
                                                                                                                        additionally recommend more frequent water changes.
                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                        As for aquarium filtration, unless you have an extremely large
                                                                                                                        biological filter, a 10 times tank capacity per hour water
                                                                                                                        circulation would BY FAR exceed the filters capacity to do its job by
                                                                                                                        not giving the bacteria enough water exposure time to do its job,
                                                                                                                        thereby defeating its purpose. Most of the water would pass through
                                                                                                                        the filter without actually having the time for its contaminants to
                                                                                                                        be biologically broken down and returned to the aquarium unfiltered
                                                                                                                        as far as not having the ammonia and nitrites being converted, even
                                                                                                                        if mechanically the suspended particles are removed. You would have
                                                                                                                        crystal-clear ammonia laden water! As for ponds, they don't need
                                                                                                                        quite as fast a turnover, especially as they get larger, as the
                                                                                                                        increased size of the filter is the major factor here, with the
                                                                                                                        retention time (time allowed for the water to be exposed to the
                                                                                                                        bacteria) being all-important. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas J. Munro" <nedarg@h...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > From the bottom of the document
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > > We are currently keeping and raising 500 Koi of about 15cm to 20cm
                                                                                                                        > > in length in about 4000 Liters of Water in a 3 Meter Porte Pool.
                                                                                                                        > > Our filter consist of a 200 Liter Plastic Drum with Gravel " VERY
                                                                                                                        > > FINE STONES " , Sand and Filter-wool. A Water rotation of about
                                                                                                                        > > 1000 Liters per Hour. The Water condition stays very good and we
                                                                                                                        > > Changed a third of the Water every three Months, and with a 25%
                                                                                                                        > > to 30% growth rate in 45 Day's.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I thought we were supposed to circulate the water in our tanks
                                                                                                                        > between 3 and 10 times an hour to provide sufficent filtering and
                                                                                                                        > biological growth.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > That would mean you need to increase the flow rate of your filter
                                                                                                                        to
                                                                                                                        > between 8,000 to 12,000 or even 40,000 liters per hour.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > My own tank at home which is about 350 liters has a filter which
                                                                                                                        > circulates 1200 liters per hour so if you have a tank 10 times
                                                                                                                        > larger you need a filter ten times larger than my tank.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Feedback welcomed!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I was impressed with this comment from the start of the document:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > >We treated Dams in Agricultural sectors, which had serious
                                                                                                                        > >problems, like BLUE - GREEN ALGAE (CY-NO Bacteria), OVER LOAD OF
                                                                                                                        > >SLUDGE, SULPHER PRODUCTION in the under layer and ECOLI " FECAL "
                                                                                                                        > >pollution. Within the first Week all these kind of Problems were
                                                                                                                        > >eliminated after treatments. It totally turns the water condition
                                                                                                                        > >positively around. Our projects included treating trout-farms with
                                                                                                                        > >Blue Green Algae, which influenced the taste of the Fish (MUD) and
                                                                                                                        > >made it toxic. After treating the Dam (68 million Liters) with Our
                                                                                                                        > >Organical Product, the water totally cleared and produced billions
                                                                                                                        > >of DAPHNIA. The Oxygen levels went up to 80% and the Harvest was
                                                                                                                        > >the Best Graded in Sizes, Taste Color and structure. The technical
                                                                                                                        > >functions that benefited for the Fish Industry will now be
                                                                                                                        > >explained.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > 68 million Liters of water is huge, maybe your product does work
                                                                                                                        > after all and i should take back my comment of a month ago.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Hello,
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                                                                        > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        > > group.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > File : /Organic Aquariums/More Test Results Organic
                                                                                                                        > Aquariums.doc
                                                                                                                        > > Uploaded by : sawatergeni <sawatergeni@y...>
                                                                                                                        > > Description : More test results.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                                                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Organic%
                                                                                                                        > 20Aquariums/More%20Test%20Results%20Organic%20Aquariums.doc
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
                                                                                                                        > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Regards,
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > sawatergeni <sawatergeni@y...>
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9920 From: Stacey Mallow Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Catfish
                                                                                                                        Okay~
                                                                                                                        My sister-in-Law has a Catfish-do not know what kind all i was told it is a pretty good size. She thinks it is dying because it lays on its back and then sides and belly. It is eating pretty well. She takes good care of her tanks and this fish has been like this for  a few months now. Is there anything the matter with it or are is it just playing.
                                                                                                                        Stacey 


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                                                                                                                        Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9921 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        Evita,

                                                                                                                        What I said was that an ADULT goldfish needs about 30 gallons of water to
                                                                                                                        live well. This would imply that younger goldfish can get by with less. In
                                                                                                                        fact, many people start fish out in a smaller tank, and move them to larger
                                                                                                                        quarters as they grow. I did not mention, in my reply, the requirements of a
                                                                                                                        betta in any way, but since you brought it up, an adult _Betta splendens_,
                                                                                                                        commonly known as betta, can do well in a lesser volume of water, though I
                                                                                                                        would hesitate to recommend less than 2 quarts.

                                                                                                                        You are probably referring to the 1" of fish per gallon myth when you say,
                                                                                                                        "They were way under the limit as far as inches.". This has been around for
                                                                                                                        a long time, and certainly pre-dates my involvement in the hobby
                                                                                                                        mumblty-mumblty years ago. While I was thinking about this, I posted to
                                                                                                                        another list that may have members who know at least some of the history of
                                                                                                                        this "golden rule". The number of fish that can be placed in a given
                                                                                                                        quantity of water depends more on the physiology and biology of the fish
                                                                                                                        than any hard and fast rule about fish size. Probably the most unfortunate
                                                                                                                        aspect of this rule is that, in certain cases, it does work.

                                                                                                                        People who are goldfish keepers do, indeed, give them the space they need.
                                                                                                                        The price you quote for a 150 gallon tank does seem to be a bit on the high
                                                                                                                        side, but probably within reason. It has been a while since I have shopped
                                                                                                                        for tanks, and a quick look at a couple of sites did not give me a real good
                                                                                                                        feel for the market price, though glasscages.com quotes a price of $345 with
                                                                                                                        a pickup off the truck at one of the shows they will be at. They are the low
                                                                                                                        end.

                                                                                                                        Working long hours can certainly be a drag. I have a ton of comp time built
                                                                                                                        up, and I hope that your boss is not like mine, who says to take the day
                                                                                                                        off, then calls me in to a job or two because he has no one else to handle
                                                                                                                        them (we are talking skill sets here, not personnel shortage). By the time
                                                                                                                        the weekend rolls around, I may have a few hundred messages to go through,
                                                                                                                        not counting the spam. I also am on call for another company for tech
                                                                                                                        support during evenings and on weekends.

                                                                                                                        Adjusting your temperature: Back off on the thermostat, perhaps a half turn
                                                                                                                        or a full turn, and let the water reach room temperature. Then turn the
                                                                                                                        thermostat up just until the light comes on. Wait a day and check the
                                                                                                                        temperature, if it is still not up to what you would like, repeat until you
                                                                                                                        reach the desired temperature.

                                                                                                                        With regard to your cycling the tank, are you still adding ammonia to the
                                                                                                                        tank? The addition of ammonia should continue until the cycle is established
                                                                                                                        and fish are added. You should see an immediate increase in the ammonia,
                                                                                                                        with it reaching zero by the time for the next dose. Failure to continue the
                                                                                                                        ammonia additions would result in a loss of the bacteria that utilize it,
                                                                                                                        with some going into hibernation, and others dieing.

                                                                                                                        ________________________________

                                                                                                                        From: Evita [mailto:evitabug@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 7:15 AM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can
                                                                                                                        get!


                                                                                                                        Steve, excuse me. Are you saying that one needs a pool basically to keep a
                                                                                                                        goldfish and a cup to keep a Beta? My fish were very tiny....Now I am just
                                                                                                                        plain flabber gasted. I feel like you are attacking me some how. I am
                                                                                                                        wondering if anyone in the group keeps goldfish. I didn't have a bowl I had
                                                                                                                        a 20 gal tank. They were way under the limit as far as inches. My problem
                                                                                                                        was I wasn't aware of the water changes needed. Most people start with
                                                                                                                        goldfish thinking they are easy ...I never heard someone say get a 30 gal
                                                                                                                        tank and put one 2.00 goldfish in it and never add anymore. Now around here
                                                                                                                        a 150 gal. tank would run you about 500.00 plus. If they are that hard to
                                                                                                                        keep why would anyone keep them? I realize you are trying to help but...

                                                                                                                        I have been working a ton lately and have barely had time to read all my new
                                                                                                                        mail must less answer it. For that I am really sorry. I had no idea how
                                                                                                                        much and many comments I would get. Oh, yesterday I was able to buy some
                                                                                                                        books off of a friend. Beginner type books she no longer needed and it is
                                                                                                                        proving to be very helpful as well. I haven't had time to post them as of
                                                                                                                        yet but these are my numbers for yesterday. This is day four of my tanks
                                                                                                                        being filled with water. I posted this insert in another group. My tanks
                                                                                                                        are still clear and I am trying to get the heat settings at about 72-75.
                                                                                                                        This is hit and miss for me right now. I have them at 78 right now. Thanks
                                                                                                                        again in advance.

                                                                                                                        I filled my
                                                                                                                        tanks up at the same time 3 days ago. I added decloriner and I am
                                                                                                                        just letting them sit as of know to let it cycle. I tested the water
                                                                                                                        this morning on both tanks and not surprizenly they are the same.
                                                                                                                        Here are my staits as they were:

                                                                                                                        Nitrate- 20 on the chart says OK, Nitrite between 0- .5 Middle
                                                                                                                        between caution and safe I am saying around 2.5 range, My hardness
                                                                                                                        is 75 which they call soft, The Alkalinity is at 40 which it says
                                                                                                                        good, and my ph is 6.8.


                                                                                                                        I am planning a water change possibly in a week. Which is the best
                                                                                                                        time to do a non-fish water change. Do I need to see my numbers go
                                                                                                                        up first since I have no fish as of yet? I am trying to get the
                                                                                                                        tanks suitable to add my first few fish and add other fish slowly. I
                                                                                                                        was told by the pet-shop I could add fish in a week ...two weeks to
                                                                                                                        be safe, but I have read with starting up it is best to do at least a
                                                                                                                        30 day non-fish cycle before adding fish. The pet-shops really don't
                                                                                                                        care because if the fish die they just sell you more. It isn't in
                                                                                                                        their interest to prevent fish deaths. I don't want to kill fish to
                                                                                                                        find out if my tanks are ready. I would rather be safe than sorry.

                                                                                                                        Sorry so long. I have one more silly question
                                                                                                                        that bugs me on the subject of the number of fish to keep for the
                                                                                                                        water gal of the tank. They say so many inches of fish but that the
                                                                                                                        size isn't a factor. I was thinking community fish platies and
                                                                                                                        guppies to start. I thought of Mollies and have sore of changed my
                                                                                                                        mind a bit on them. But in regards to the platies and guppies, why
                                                                                                                        do they count the same in length even though guppies seem so much
                                                                                                                        smaller. For my 30 gal they said no more than 15 fish or guppies
                                                                                                                        size in that range. The guppies are so small, at 15 guppies you
                                                                                                                        might hardly see or notice them at all. The larger in size but the
                                                                                                                        same in length platies would make the tank look much fuller. So why
                                                                                                                        are they counted the same. What about those (SORRY FORGOT THE NAME}
                                                                                                                        long snake like skinny fish that stay on the bottom. They a really
                                                                                                                        small but at the same time about 4 inches long. I thought one also
                                                                                                                        took into consideration where the fish feed and live like bottom,
                                                                                                                        middle and top as well as being bigger in size not just head to tail
                                                                                                                        length.

                                                                                                                        Anyway look forward to any and all comments for new-bees. Thanks,
                                                                                                                        Hope I am not to chatty....I tend to be that way. Evita



                                                                                                                        Evita

                                                                                                                        Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        FWIW, a goldfish should live 20+ years. An adult goldfish should
                                                                                                                        have a
                                                                                                                        minimum of 30 gallons of water per fish--for your 5, you should have
                                                                                                                        had a
                                                                                                                        tank of 120-150 gallons.

                                                                                                                        Goldfish are messy fish. They produce a lot of waste. Someone
                                                                                                                        mentioned
                                                                                                                        earlier cleaning the filter once a month--bad idea. Especially for
                                                                                                                        fish like
                                                                                                                        goldfish, a filter should be serviced at least once a week, or when
                                                                                                                        the flow
                                                                                                                        of water slows.

                                                                                                                        If you are going to start with more tropical fish now, read up about
                                                                                                                        them.
                                                                                                                        Probably time to get a good book to go along with the stuff you pull
                                                                                                                        off the
                                                                                                                        Internet. I recommend the Baench _Aquarium Atlas_ as a good book for
                                                                                                                        those
                                                                                                                        who are starting and want to do things right. Get Volume 1, and
                                                                                                                        don't worry
                                                                                                                        about the other volumes for know. It has a good section on setting
                                                                                                                        up and
                                                                                                                        maintaining an aquarium. It has a short, but good, section on live
                                                                                                                        plants,
                                                                                                                        and, of course, lots and lots of fish.

                                                                                                                        Guppies can easily be kept at room temperature, 68-72^o F.+.
                                                                                                                        Platies, as I
                                                                                                                        recollect, would be the same. despite their reputation as a
                                                                                                                        "beginner's"
                                                                                                                        fish, mollies really are not, and I'd not recommend them for one who
                                                                                                                        is just
                                                                                                                        learning how to do things right.

                                                                                                                        I'd probably throw in a couple of cory catfish to go with the
                                                                                                                        guppies and
                                                                                                                        platies. They are relatively hardy, and pH is not critical for them,
                                                                                                                        though
                                                                                                                        they tend to come from waters that are sub 7.0 pH, while the guppies
                                                                                                                        and
                                                                                                                        platies are found inters that are more than 7.0 pH.

                                                                                                                        The guppies will stay, pretty much, in the top third of the tank.
                                                                                                                        The
                                                                                                                        platies will also spend a lot of time in the top third of the tank.
                                                                                                                        The
                                                                                                                        catfish you chose will mainly stay in the bottom third of the tank.
                                                                                                                        You will
                                                                                                                        probably want to get a fish that will spend time in the middle third
                                                                                                                        of the
                                                                                                                        tank.



                                                                                                                        ________________________________

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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9922 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Catfish
                                                                                                                        there is only one problem the name is very important because some catfish live there lives upside down! they are called in fact upside down catfish. there is also what are called the not real upside down catfish which are similar in all features of the real upside down catfish and act like it but have some small different features! there are thousands of different catfish but all have there ways of playing and style of living!
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Nigel

                                                                                                                        Stacey Mallow <krazy4mypets@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        Okay~
                                                                                                                        My sister-in-Law has a Catfish-do not know what kind all i was told it is a pretty good size. She thinks it is dying because it lays on its back and then sides and belly. It is eating pretty well. She takes good care of her tanks and this fish has been like this for  a few months now. Is there anything the matter with it or are is it just playing.
                                                                                                                        Stacey 


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                                                                                                                        Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals

                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9923 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        the reference to thirty gallons for an adult goldfish
                                                                                                                        is for oine that is everal years old, as they do hit
                                                                                                                        20 inches or so, so even if you went by the old
                                                                                                                        generality of 1 inch per gallon, they are close to
                                                                                                                        correct. the other reason for so large a tank is that
                                                                                                                        goldfish are among the messiest fish around and could
                                                                                                                        use the excess water volume to make things easier on
                                                                                                                        you. small goldfish should have about 2 gallons for
                                                                                                                        every in ch, again using generality. the higher the
                                                                                                                        quality of your filtration the less volume is needed,
                                                                                                                        and the less work you have to do. likewise, the
                                                                                                                        larger the volume the more self sufficient the tank
                                                                                                                        will be. i hope that your experience with posts get s
                                                                                                                        better.
                                                                                                                        paul
                                                                                                                        --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        > Steve, excuse me. Are you saying that one needs a
                                                                                                                        > pool basically to keep a goldfish and a cup to keep
                                                                                                                        > a Beta? My fish were very tiny....Now I am just
                                                                                                                        > plain flabber gasted. I feel like you are attacking
                                                                                                                        > me some how. I am wondering if anyone in the group
                                                                                                                        > keeps goldfish. I didn't have a bowl I had a 20 gal
                                                                                                                        > tank. They were way under the limit as far as
                                                                                                                        > inches. My problem was I wasn't aware of the water
                                                                                                                        > changes needed. Most people start with goldfish
                                                                                                                        > thinking they are easy ...I never heard someone say
                                                                                                                        > get a 30 gal tank and put one 2.00 goldfish in it
                                                                                                                        > and never add anymore. Now around here a 150 gal.
                                                                                                                        > tank would run you about 500.00 plus. If they are
                                                                                                                        > that hard to keep why would anyone keep them? I
                                                                                                                        > realize you are trying to help but...
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I have been working a ton lately and have barely had
                                                                                                                        > time to read all my new mail must less answer it.
                                                                                                                        > For that I am really sorry. I had no idea how much
                                                                                                                        > and many comments I would get. Oh, yesterday I
                                                                                                                        > was able to buy some books off of a friend.
                                                                                                                        > Beginner type books she no longer needed and it is
                                                                                                                        > proving to be very helpful as well. I haven't had
                                                                                                                        > time to post them as of yet but these are my numbers
                                                                                                                        > for yesterday. This is day four of my tanks being
                                                                                                                        > filled with water. I posted this insert in another
                                                                                                                        > group. My tanks are still clear and I am trying to
                                                                                                                        > get the heat settings at about 72-75. This is hit
                                                                                                                        > and miss for me right now. I have them at 78 right
                                                                                                                        > now. Thanks again in advance.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I filled my
                                                                                                                        > tanks up at the same time 3 days ago. I added
                                                                                                                        > decloriner and I am
                                                                                                                        > just letting them sit as of know to let it cycle. I
                                                                                                                        > tested the water
                                                                                                                        > this morning on both tanks and not surprizenly they
                                                                                                                        > are the same.
                                                                                                                        > Here are my staits as they were:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nitrate- 20 on the chart says OK, Nitrite between 0-
                                                                                                                        > .5 Middle
                                                                                                                        > between caution and safe I am saying around 2.5
                                                                                                                        > range, My hardness
                                                                                                                        > is 75 which they call soft, The Alkalinity is at 40
                                                                                                                        > which it says
                                                                                                                        > good, and my ph is 6.8.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I am planning a water change possibly in a week.
                                                                                                                        > Which is the best
                                                                                                                        > time to do a non-fish water change. Do I need to see
                                                                                                                        > my numbers go
                                                                                                                        > up first since I have no fish as of yet? I am trying
                                                                                                                        > to get the
                                                                                                                        > tanks suitable to add my first few fish and add
                                                                                                                        > other fish slowly. I
                                                                                                                        > was told by the pet-shop I could add fish in a week
                                                                                                                        > ...two weeks to
                                                                                                                        > be safe, but I have read with starting up it is best
                                                                                                                        > to do at least a
                                                                                                                        > 30 day non-fish cycle before adding fish. The
                                                                                                                        > pet-shops really don't
                                                                                                                        > care because if the fish die they just sell you
                                                                                                                        > more. It isn't in
                                                                                                                        > their interest to prevent fish deaths. I don't want
                                                                                                                        > to kill fish to
                                                                                                                        > find out if my tanks are ready. I would rather be
                                                                                                                        > safe than sorry.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Sorry so long. I have one more silly question
                                                                                                                        > that bugs me on the subject of the number of fish to
                                                                                                                        > keep for the
                                                                                                                        > water gal of the tank. They say so many inches of
                                                                                                                        > fish but that the
                                                                                                                        > size isn't a factor. I was thinking community fish
                                                                                                                        > platies and
                                                                                                                        > guppies to start. I thought of Mollies and have sore
                                                                                                                        > of changed my
                                                                                                                        > mind a bit on them. But in regards to the platies
                                                                                                                        > and guppies, why
                                                                                                                        > do they count the same in length even though guppies
                                                                                                                        > seem so much
                                                                                                                        > smaller. For my 30 gal they said no more than 15
                                                                                                                        > fish or guppies
                                                                                                                        > size in that range. The guppies are so small, at 15
                                                                                                                        > guppies you
                                                                                                                        > might hardly see or notice them at all. The larger
                                                                                                                        > in size but the
                                                                                                                        > same in length platies would make the tank look much
                                                                                                                        > fuller. So why
                                                                                                                        > are they counted the same. What about those (SORRY
                                                                                                                        > FORGOT THE NAME}
                                                                                                                        > long snake like skinny fish that stay on the bottom.
                                                                                                                        > They a really
                                                                                                                        > small but at the same time about 4 inches long. I
                                                                                                                        > thought one also
                                                                                                                        > took into consideration where the fish feed and live
                                                                                                                        > like bottom,
                                                                                                                        > middle and top as well as being bigger in size not
                                                                                                                        > just head to tail
                                                                                                                        > length.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Anyway look forward to any and all comments for
                                                                                                                        > new-bees. Thanks,
                                                                                                                        > Hope I am not to chatty....I tend to be that way.
                                                                                                                        > Evita
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Evita
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > FWIW, a goldfish should live 20+ years. An adult
                                                                                                                        > goldfish should have a
                                                                                                                        > minimum of 30 gallons of water per fish--for your 5,
                                                                                                                        > you should have had a
                                                                                                                        > tank of 120-150 gallons.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Goldfish are messy fish. They produce a lot of
                                                                                                                        > waste. Someone mentioned
                                                                                                                        > earlier cleaning the filter once a month--bad idea.
                                                                                                                        > Especially for fish like
                                                                                                                        > goldfish, a filter should be serviced at least once
                                                                                                                        > a week, or when the flow
                                                                                                                        > of water slows.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > If you are going to start with more tropical fish
                                                                                                                        > now, read up about them.
                                                                                                                        > Probably time to get a good book to go along with
                                                                                                                        > the stuff you pull off the
                                                                                                                        > Internet. I recommend the Baench _Aquarium Atlas_ as
                                                                                                                        > a good book for those
                                                                                                                        > who are starting and want to do things right. Get
                                                                                                                        > Volume 1, and don't worry
                                                                                                                        > about the other volumes for know. It has a good
                                                                                                                        > section on setting up and
                                                                                                                        > maintaining an aquarium. It has a short, but good,
                                                                                                                        > section on live plants,
                                                                                                                        > and, of course, lots and lots of fish.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Guppies can easily be kept at room temperature,
                                                                                                                        > 68-72^o F.+. Platies, as I
                                                                                                                        > recollect, would be the same. despite their
                                                                                                                        > reputation as a "beginner's"
                                                                                                                        > fish, mollies really are not, and I'd not recommend
                                                                                                                        > them for one who is just
                                                                                                                        > learning how to do things right.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I'd probably throw in a couple of cory catfish to go
                                                                                                                        > with the guppies and
                                                                                                                        > platies. They are relatively hardy, and pH is not
                                                                                                                        > critical for them, though
                                                                                                                        > they tend to come from waters that are sub 7.0 pH,
                                                                                                                        > while the guppies and
                                                                                                                        > platies are found inters that are more than 7.0 pH.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > The guppies will stay, pretty much, in the top third
                                                                                                                        > of the tank. The
                                                                                                                        > platies will also spend a lot of time in the top
                                                                                                                        > third of the tank. The
                                                                                                                        > catfish you chose will mainly stay in the bottom
                                                                                                                        > third of the tank. You will
                                                                                                                        > probably want to get a fish that will spend time in
                                                                                                                        > the middle third of the
                                                                                                                        > tank.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                        > Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                        > Personals




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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9924 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        8/10 of a gallon is far more water than 90% of bettas
                                                                                                                        ever get! they spend several weeks ina bag packed
                                                                                                                        with pure o2 and 1/2-1oz of water during shipping.
                                                                                                                        8/10 of a gallon should be paradise for them.

                                                                                                                        --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                        > at 8 tenths of a gallon without gravel, I can't
                                                                                                                        > imagine a happy betta. The
                                                                                                                        > video shows 100% water changes through a funnel..
                                                                                                                        > ALL i can think is stress for
                                                                                                                        > the fish.
                                                                                                                        > But if there is a market for it, it will be made and
                                                                                                                        > sold.....
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > rob
                                                                                                                        > Indiana
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > In a message dated 4/2/2005 10:02:25 PM US Eastern
                                                                                                                        > Standard Time,
                                                                                                                        > valeendgonzalez@... writes:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > > the video will tick you off.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20755&item=4370111147&
                                                                                                                        > > rd=1#ebayphotohosting
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > just frustrated and had to get it out.sorry for
                                                                                                                        > the rant.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9925 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
                                                                                                                        most bow froont tanbks over 7 gallons are actually
                                                                                                                        made of glass. there are very few acrylic tanks in
                                                                                                                        that style. the bow front tanks do not distort the
                                                                                                                        view of the fish, but actually give a true line of
                                                                                                                        sight from any angle. a bulging tank will distort,
                                                                                                                        and usually is caused by lights that are too hot on an
                                                                                                                        acryllic tank, or a low quality glass.

                                                                                                                        --- "Nicolas J. Munro" <nedarg@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Ya know, one of the things i hate is how a tank gets
                                                                                                                        > a bow in it.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I brought glass twice the recommended thickness to
                                                                                                                        > avoid this problem
                                                                                                                        > which worked for about 3 weeks but now its got that
                                                                                                                        > really annoying
                                                                                                                        > lens effect.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > If you can find a bow tank filled with water which
                                                                                                                        > has fish, check the
                                                                                                                        > effect caused by the bow if you like that then go
                                                                                                                        > for it otherwise your
                                                                                                                        > probably out of luck cause a flat one dosn't stay
                                                                                                                        > flat for ever.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Also a thing to note, all the bow fronts ive seen
                                                                                                                        > are made of plastic
                                                                                                                        > which i have been told scratches raltivly easy
                                                                                                                        > especially by rocks etc.
                                                                                                                        > ive been told for that reason you should get glass.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Glass is supposed to be easyer to clean using a
                                                                                                                        > razer or scraper or
                                                                                                                        > even a simple spunge. not sure if a razor is a good
                                                                                                                        > thing in a plastic
                                                                                                                        > tank youd have to ask a couple of the others.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Miner"
                                                                                                                        > <eminer1254@y...>
                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Hi All,
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > I'm on the verge of getting my first tank. I want
                                                                                                                        > to get folk's
                                                                                                                        > > opinion of bow tanks vs. flat front tanks. Any
                                                                                                                        > comments? Good or Bad.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Thanks
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Eric
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9926 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
                                                                                                                        not true
                                                                                                                        --- Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > Flat front from me! with a bow you will have see
                                                                                                                        > fish
                                                                                                                        > LONGGGGG or rounder or something like that due to
                                                                                                                        > its
                                                                                                                        > shape!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nigel
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hi All,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I'm on the verge of getting my first tank. I want to
                                                                                                                        > get folk's
                                                                                                                        > opinion of bow tanks vs. flat front tanks. Any
                                                                                                                        > comments? Good or Bad.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Thanks
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Eric
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                        > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                        > that
                                                                                                                        > is not important to the reply and if changing the
                                                                                                                        > topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                        > line
                                                                                                                        > -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                        > Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9927 From: jim Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote

                                                                                                                        they do become territorial and aggrsessive towrds other fish.

                                                                                                                        > --- Charlene <muffin4494@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > HI Can I put the sand and live sand and live rock
                                                                                                                        > > in my 55 ga. tank.
                                                                                                                        > > When I start to Cycling the water. Or what can I put
                                                                                                                        > > in it When it is
                                                                                                                        > > Cycling. Thank you for helping me. Charlene
                                                                                                                        > > muffin44945@com
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        ---charlene,,,hi,, i cycled my salt tanks using sailfin mollies that
                                                                                                                        i conditioned to the saltwater, before the cycle was completed, they
                                                                                                                        were having babies in the salt tank, as i started adding reef
                                                                                                                        fishes, i removed the mollies to another new salt set-up,,each time,
                                                                                                                        new batches of babies,,and im up to 5 salt tanks at present,, took
                                                                                                                        some of the mollies back to freshwater as i was running a little
                                                                                                                        cramped in the salt tank,,,,,,,,,,,,salt conversion
                                                                                                                        instructions,,,,in a clean fish pail, in 1-2 " freshwater, add the
                                                                                                                        mollies, then using airline tubing(siphon), add saltwater for 1-2
                                                                                                                        minutes, wait 15-30 minutes, add more saltwater for 1-2
                                                                                                                        minutes,,,,,,continue this process till the entire pail is filled
                                                                                                                        with saltwater,, the fishes will gradually aclimate to the salt and
                                                                                                                        mollies are cheaper than reef fishes for cycling,,,once cycling is
                                                                                                                        complete ,,, reverse the process and take them back to
                                                                                                                        freshwater,,,,regards,,,Jim
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9928 From: jim Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote

                                                                                                                        they do become territorial and aggrsessive towrds other fish.

                                                                                                                        > --- Charlene <muffin4494@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > HI Can I put the sand and live sand and live rock
                                                                                                                        > > in my 55 ga. tank.
                                                                                                                        > > When I start to Cycling the water. Or what can I put
                                                                                                                        > > in it When it is
                                                                                                                        > > Cycling. Thank you for helping me. Charlene
                                                                                                                        > > muffin44945@com
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        ---charlene,,,hi,, i cycled my salt tanks using sailfin mollies that
                                                                                                                        i conditioned to the saltwater, before the cycle was completed, they
                                                                                                                        were having babies in the salt tank, as i started adding reef
                                                                                                                        fishes, i removed the mollies to another new salt set-up,,each time,
                                                                                                                        new batches of babies,,and im up to 5 salt tanks at present,, took
                                                                                                                        some of the mollies back to freshwater as i was running a little
                                                                                                                        cramped in the salt tank,,,,,,,,,,,,salt conversion
                                                                                                                        instructions,,,,in a clean fish pail, in 1-2 " freshwater, add the
                                                                                                                        mollies, then using airline tubing(siphon), add saltwater for 1-2
                                                                                                                        minutes, wait 15-30 minutes, add more saltwater for 1-2
                                                                                                                        minutes,,,,,,continue this process till the entire pail is filled
                                                                                                                        with saltwater,, the fishes will gradually aclimate to the salt and
                                                                                                                        mollies are cheaper than reef fishes for cycling,,,once cycling is
                                                                                                                        complete ,,, reverse the process and take them back to
                                                                                                                        freshwater,,,,regards,,,Jim
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9929 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        The twenty inches you refer to may be the size that the goldfish she had may
                                                                                                                        reach, however, if they were comets, they would grow to approximately 12".
                                                                                                                        The 30 gallons per adult fish applies to what ever the variety of goldfish
                                                                                                                        one may have. Many of the varieties of gold fish have a compressed body
                                                                                                                        length of 6-8" when full grown. The make up for this compression by being
                                                                                                                        egg shaped. Even though they are less than the common and comet goldfish,
                                                                                                                        they still need the 30 gallons of water to do well when they are adults.

                                                                                                                        Evita refers to the fish she had as having stopped growing. The story that a
                                                                                                                        fish will grow to the capacity of a tank is a myth that has more than a
                                                                                                                        grain of truth in it. Many, if not all, fish secrete a hormone that will at
                                                                                                                        least slow growth, if not stop it. The secretion affects other fish as well
                                                                                                                        as the one who secretes it. Goldfish seem to be very much affected by this
                                                                                                                        hormone, and do seem to stop growing once a certain size has been reached,
                                                                                                                        in cramped quarters, especially if one is not doing regular water changes.
                                                                                                                        Paul, you were around and participated in the water change battle that
                                                                                                                        occurred a while back. This is one of the reasons why one should do water
                                                                                                                        changes--to remove compounds we do not or cannot measure.

                                                                                                                        I have had some replies to a posting about the 1" rule I placed in another
                                                                                                                        list, and this myth has been around for more than 50 years, though no one
                                                                                                                        has pinpointed the time of its origin yet (if anyone can do it, it will be
                                                                                                                        the guys on that list). It seems to have stemmed from a complex formula
                                                                                                                        based on surface area, that William T. Innes put forth. It is unclear
                                                                                                                        whether Innes developed the formula himself, or if he merely popularized the
                                                                                                                        work of another. The 1" rule, as we know it today was a perversion of that
                                                                                                                        formula to the extreme by one Herbert Axelrod. Myself speaking again, there
                                                                                                                        has been work done, to show that this rule is not true. A lot was done by
                                                                                                                        Steve Meyer, particularly concerning koi and goldfish, and published in
                                                                                                                        _Aquarium Fish Magazine_. His formulae can be applied to other fish, but
                                                                                                                        probably do not tell the whole story, as I am sure that activity of the fish
                                                                                                                        in question would also factor into it, which he does not allow. His work
                                                                                                                        deals with koi and goldfish, as stated above.

                                                                                                                        Oh, there are so many paths that can be taken and followed in this hobby of
                                                                                                                        ours, once we have mastered the basics of keeping the fish alive.

                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 2:34 PM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can
                                                                                                                        get!


                                                                                                                        the reference to thirty gallons for an adult goldfish
                                                                                                                        is for oine that is everal years old, as they do hit
                                                                                                                        20 inches or so, so even if you went by the old
                                                                                                                        generality of 1 inch per gallon, they are close to
                                                                                                                        correct. the other reason for so large a tank is that
                                                                                                                        goldfish are among the messiest fish around and could
                                                                                                                        use the excess water volume to make things easier on
                                                                                                                        you. small goldfish should have about 2 gallons for
                                                                                                                        every in ch, again using generality. the higher the
                                                                                                                        quality of your filtration the less volume is needed,
                                                                                                                        and the less work you have to do. likewise, the
                                                                                                                        larger the volume the more self sufficient the tank
                                                                                                                        will be. i hope that your experience with posts get s
                                                                                                                        better.
                                                                                                                        paul
                                                                                                                        --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        > Steve, excuse me. Are you saying that one needs a
                                                                                                                        > pool basically to keep a goldfish and a cup to keep
                                                                                                                        > a Beta? My fish were very tiny....Now I am just
                                                                                                                        > plain flabber gasted. I feel like you are attacking
                                                                                                                        > me some how. I am wondering if anyone in the group
                                                                                                                        > keeps goldfish. I didn't have a bowl I had a 20 gal
                                                                                                                        > tank. They were way under the limit as far as
                                                                                                                        > inches. My problem was I wasn't aware of the water
                                                                                                                        > changes needed. Most people start with goldfish
                                                                                                                        > thinking they are easy ...I never heard someone say
                                                                                                                        > get a 30 gal tank and put one 2.00 goldfish in it
                                                                                                                        > and never add anymore. Now around here a 150 gal.
                                                                                                                        > tank would run you about 500.00 plus. If they are
                                                                                                                        > that hard to keep why would anyone keep them? I
                                                                                                                        > realize you are trying to help but...
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I have been working a ton lately and have barely had
                                                                                                                        > time to read all my new mail must less answer it.
                                                                                                                        > For that I am really sorry. I had no idea how much
                                                                                                                        > and many comments I would get. Oh, yesterday I
                                                                                                                        > was able to buy some books off of a friend.
                                                                                                                        > Beginner type books she no longer needed and it is
                                                                                                                        > proving to be very helpful as well. I haven't had
                                                                                                                        > time to post them as of yet but these are my numbers
                                                                                                                        > for yesterday. This is day four of my tanks being
                                                                                                                        > filled with water. I posted this insert in another
                                                                                                                        > group. My tanks are still clear and I am trying to
                                                                                                                        > get the heat settings at about 72-75. This is hit
                                                                                                                        > and miss for me right now. I have them at 78 right
                                                                                                                        > now. Thanks again in advance.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I filled my
                                                                                                                        > tanks up at the same time 3 days ago. I added
                                                                                                                        > decloriner and I am
                                                                                                                        > just letting them sit as of know to let it cycle. I
                                                                                                                        > tested the water
                                                                                                                        > this morning on both tanks and not surprizenly they
                                                                                                                        > are the same.
                                                                                                                        > Here are my staits as they were:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nitrate- 20 on the chart says OK, Nitrite between 0-
                                                                                                                        > .5 Middle
                                                                                                                        > between caution and safe I am saying around 2.5
                                                                                                                        > range, My hardness
                                                                                                                        > is 75 which they call soft, The Alkalinity is at 40
                                                                                                                        > which it says
                                                                                                                        > good, and my ph is 6.8.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I am planning a water change possibly in a week.
                                                                                                                        > Which is the best
                                                                                                                        > time to do a non-fish water change. Do I need to see
                                                                                                                        > my numbers go
                                                                                                                        > up first since I have no fish as of yet? I am trying
                                                                                                                        > to get the
                                                                                                                        > tanks suitable to add my first few fish and add
                                                                                                                        > other fish slowly. I
                                                                                                                        > was told by the pet-shop I could add fish in a week
                                                                                                                        > ...two weeks to
                                                                                                                        > be safe, but I have read with starting up it is best
                                                                                                                        > to do at least a
                                                                                                                        > 30 day non-fish cycle before adding fish. The
                                                                                                                        > pet-shops really don't
                                                                                                                        > care because if the fish die they just sell you
                                                                                                                        > more. It isn't in
                                                                                                                        > their interest to prevent fish deaths. I don't want
                                                                                                                        > to kill fish to
                                                                                                                        > find out if my tanks are ready. I would rather be
                                                                                                                        > safe than sorry.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Sorry so long. I have one more silly question
                                                                                                                        > that bugs me on the subject of the number of fish to
                                                                                                                        > keep for the
                                                                                                                        > water gal of the tank. They say so many inches of
                                                                                                                        > fish but that the
                                                                                                                        > size isn't a factor. I was thinking community fish
                                                                                                                        > platies and
                                                                                                                        > guppies to start. I thought of Mollies and have sore
                                                                                                                        > of changed my
                                                                                                                        > mind a bit on them. But in regards to the platies
                                                                                                                        > and guppies, why
                                                                                                                        > do they count the same in length even though guppies
                                                                                                                        > seem so much
                                                                                                                        > smaller. For my 30 gal they said no more than 15
                                                                                                                        > fish or guppies
                                                                                                                        > size in that range. The guppies are so small, at 15
                                                                                                                        > guppies you
                                                                                                                        > might hardly see or notice them at all. The larger
                                                                                                                        > in size but the
                                                                                                                        > same in length platies would make the tank look much
                                                                                                                        > fuller. So why
                                                                                                                        > are they counted the same. What about those (SORRY
                                                                                                                        > FORGOT THE NAME}
                                                                                                                        > long snake like skinny fish that stay on the bottom.
                                                                                                                        > They a really
                                                                                                                        > small but at the same time about 4 inches long. I
                                                                                                                        > thought one also
                                                                                                                        > took into consideration where the fish feed and live
                                                                                                                        > like bottom,
                                                                                                                        > middle and top as well as being bigger in size not
                                                                                                                        > just head to tail
                                                                                                                        > length.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Anyway look forward to any and all comments for
                                                                                                                        > new-bees. Thanks,
                                                                                                                        > Hope I am not to chatty....I tend to be that way.
                                                                                                                        > Evita
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Evita
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > FWIW, a goldfish should live 20+ years. An adult
                                                                                                                        > goldfish should have a
                                                                                                                        > minimum of 30 gallons of water per fish--for your 5,
                                                                                                                        > you should have had a
                                                                                                                        > tank of 120-150 gallons.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Goldfish are messy fish. They produce a lot of
                                                                                                                        > waste. Someone mentioned
                                                                                                                        > earlier cleaning the filter once a month--bad idea.
                                                                                                                        > Especially for fish like
                                                                                                                        > goldfish, a filter should be serviced at least once
                                                                                                                        > a week, or when the flow
                                                                                                                        > of water slows.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > If you are going to start with more tropical fish
                                                                                                                        > now, read up about them.
                                                                                                                        > Probably time to get a good book to go along with
                                                                                                                        > the stuff you pull off the
                                                                                                                        > Internet. I recommend the Baench _Aquarium Atlas_ as
                                                                                                                        > a good book for those
                                                                                                                        > who are starting and want to do things right. Get
                                                                                                                        > Volume 1, and don't worry
                                                                                                                        > about the other volumes for know. It has a good
                                                                                                                        > section on setting up and
                                                                                                                        > maintaining an aquarium. It has a short, but good,
                                                                                                                        > section on live plants,
                                                                                                                        > and, of course, lots and lots of fish.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Guppies can easily be kept at room temperature,
                                                                                                                        > 68-72^o F.+. Platies, as I
                                                                                                                        > recollect, would be the same. despite their
                                                                                                                        > reputation as a "beginner's"
                                                                                                                        > fish, mollies really are not, and I'd not recommend
                                                                                                                        > them for one who is just
                                                                                                                        > learning how to do things right.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I'd probably throw in a couple of cory catfish to go
                                                                                                                        > with the guppies and
                                                                                                                        > platies. They are relatively hardy, and pH is not
                                                                                                                        > critical for them, though
                                                                                                                        > they tend to come from waters that are sub 7.0 pH,
                                                                                                                        > while the guppies and
                                                                                                                        > platies are found inters that are more than 7.0 pH.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > The guppies will stay, pretty much, in the top third
                                                                                                                        > of the tank. The
                                                                                                                        > platies will also spend a lot of time in the top
                                                                                                                        > third of the tank. The
                                                                                                                        > catfish you chose will mainly stay in the bottom
                                                                                                                        > third of the tank. You will
                                                                                                                        > probably want to get a fish that will spend time in
                                                                                                                        > the middle third of the
                                                                                                                        > tank.
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9930 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: South American Fish and Snails
                                                                                                                        Hi Guys,
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        I have a 75 gallon south american themed tanks with 3 albino cory's, 12 neon tetras, a gold spotted pleco, a brown spotted pleco, and several mollies (I realize dalmations, blacks, and silvers are true South American but of rather of that heritage) and have several south american plants.  Through this I have developed an annoying snail habit.  What can I do to get rid of them?  Keeping with thematics, are there any south american fish that will take care of the problem?
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        thanks
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Ken
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9931 From: Nan Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Does the Group?
                                                                                                                        Does the group ever have meeting times in the Chat room? I was just
                                                                                                                        curious. If not, I would like to invite anyone who wants to just get
                                                                                                                        together and shoot the breeze in real time in the chat room next
                                                                                                                        Saturday and 3:00pm EST USA.

                                                                                                                        Also, for those who are interested, I put pics up on my webshots
                                                                                                                        website of my newest pair of Bettas spawning. I thought those who
                                                                                                                        might be interested can take a look. The link is in the members links
                                                                                                                        or email me directly and I will send you the link.

                                                                                                                        Have a great day!

                                                                                                                        ~Nan and Crew~
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9932 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: South American Fish and Snails
                                                                                                                        Find a loach that is native to south america (if there is such a fish).
                                                                                                                        Your snail problem will be gone.


                                                                                                                        Iksnip@... said:
                                                                                                                        > Hi Guys,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I have a 75 gallon south american themed tanks with 3 albino cory's, 12
                                                                                                                        > neon tetras, a gold spotted pleco, a brown spotted pleco, and several
                                                                                                                        > mollies (I realize dalmations, blacks, and silvers are true South American
                                                                                                                        > but of rather of that heritage) and have several south american plants.
                                                                                                                        > Through this I have developed an annoying snail habit. What can I do to
                                                                                                                        > get rid of them? Keeping with thematics, are there any south american
                                                                                                                        > fish that will take care of the problem?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > thanks
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Ken
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9933 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi, need help in new tank setup.
                                                                                                                        Check out http://www.rivertank.com for ideas.



                                                                                                                        khamul1of9 said:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I've just set up a half land/half water paludarium. The water portion
                                                                                                                        > in big enough to support some fish. Its about 2 feet surface area and
                                                                                                                        > about 2.5 inches deep. The water level changes about .5 inches above
                                                                                                                        > and below the 2.5 inches. Was wondering what kind of fish you all
                                                                                                                        > would recomend for this little stream simulation. It has a water pump
                                                                                                                        > creating a current in the water so the water is not still. Also, I
                                                                                                                        > have hidden in the water (under the gravel) bags of ammonia chips and
                                                                                                                        > carbon for adequate filtration.
                                                                                                                        > Do bettas dislike water with a current? Its not very strong.
                                                                                                                        > I was also thinking about danios or neon tetras.
                                                                                                                        > Thanks.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9934 From: ruth eubanks Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Does the Group?
                                                                                                                        Hi Nan, this is Ruth. Thats 5:00 my time I will try to there! Sounds good to me.

                                                                                                                        Nan <ntalb00@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        Does the group ever have meeting times in the Chat room? I was just
                                                                                                                        curious.  If not, I would like to invite anyone who wants to just get
                                                                                                                        together and shoot the breeze in real time in the chat room next
                                                                                                                        Saturday and 3:00pm EST USA.

                                                                                                                        Also, for those who are interested, I put pics up on my webshots
                                                                                                                        website of my newest pair of Bettas spawning.  I thought those who
                                                                                                                        might be interested can take a look.  The link is in the members links
                                                                                                                        or email me directly and I will send you the link.

                                                                                                                        Have a great day!

                                                                                                                        ~Nan and Crew~





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                        Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                        Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9935 From: pam phetteplace Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Bow or flat....glass or acrylic??
                                                                                                                        I was thinking about a bow tank but instead got an oblong  acrylic 55 gallon . Presently it has 5 angels and one pleco (who is murdering my sword plants.....didnt know they were so fond of them) in it.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        I am quite pleased with the  it's  shape with rounded corners.  It is my understanding that acrylic tanks are way more durable than glass.  No problems yet with scratching although I know they do so easily, but can be buffed out.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Pam

                                                                                                                        AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

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                                                                                                                        There are 25 messages in this issue.

                                                                                                                        Topics in this digest:

                                                                                                                        1. Powpets! Special Invitation for AquaticLife group.
                                                                                                                        From: "zxav"
                                                                                                                        2. Re: Temperature and Betta
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        3. Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                        From: paul helms
                                                                                                                        4. Re: Whisper Micro Filter and Betta outlet flow hose
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        5. Re: Birth Patterns of Platties
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        6. Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        From: "melly0s"
                                                                                                                        7. Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
                                                                                                                        From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                        8. Re: Huge international betta show in Brisbane
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        9. Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                        10. Re: betta tail biting?!?!
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        11. Re: Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        From: ruth eubanks
                                                                                                                        12. Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        13. Re: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        14. RE: Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
                                                                                                                        From: "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                                        15. RE: Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        From: "Steve Szabo"
                                                                                                                        16. Re: Feeding
                                                                                                                        From: Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                        17. Re: Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        From: Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                        18. Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                        From: Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                        19. Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        From: FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                        20. Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        From: "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                        21. Hi, need help in new tank setup.
                                                                                                                        From: "khamul1of9"
                                                                                                                        22. Re: Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        From: Evita
                                                                                                                        23. Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        From: "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                        24. RE: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        From: Evita
                                                                                                                        25. Re: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        From: "Ray Wetzel"


                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 1
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 12:14:54 -0000
                                                                                                                        From: "zxav"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Powpets! Special Invitation for AquaticLife group.


                                                                                                                        Hi,

                                                                                                                        AquaticLife group is invited to join us at http://www.Powpets.com, a
                                                                                                                        newly launched pet lovers community, promoting love and interest
                                                                                                                        towards animals as well as to educate responsible pet guardianship
                                                                                                                        through active community building involvement.

                                                                                                                        As a way to say "Thank You" to our specially invited guest, you will
                                                                                                                        receive a Free Lifetime Powpets Rewards Account with 15MB of photo
                                                                                                                        storage space when you join our Powpets Network! This offer is
                                                                                                                        specially made ONLY to AquaticLife group owner.

                                                                                                                        Learn more about Powpets Rewards Account: http://rewards.powpets.com

                                                                                                                        Some features of Powpets includes:
                                                                                                                        - Pet discussions forum
                                                                                                                        - Photo Sharing 2MB Pet photo storage space
                                                                                                                        - Create Private Photo Album
                                                                                                                        - Create your Pet club
                                                                                                                        - Create events and discussions within your own Pet club.
                                                                                                                        - Monthly Pet Photo Contest.
                                                                                                                        - Create public listings

                                                                                                                        Please visit Http://www.powpets.com/forum/reg.html to register your
                                                                                                                        Powpets account.

                                                                                                                        After registration, please send us your Powpets username and email
                                                                                                                        address to moderator@... and we will set up your Rewards
                                                                                                                        Account within 24hours.



                                                                                                                        Regards,

                                                                                                                        Xavier Zou
                                                                                                                        Powpets! Moderator






                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 2
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 21:43:05 -0000
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Temperature and Betta


                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Linda" wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I purchased two 2.5 gallon aquariums for my 2 Betta Oscar and
                                                                                                                        > Rasco last Friday night. I had Oscar in his new home with a
                                                                                                                        > heater and he really loves it.

                                                                                                                        I think my betta enjoys warmer water too. Where i live we are comming
                                                                                                                        into autum/winter and the ambient temperature is dropping. My betta
                                                                                                                        started sitting on top of my filter even though there was little water
                                                                                                                        above it, his fins actually went above the water line leaving him half
                                                                                                                        wet and lying on his side, a scary sight i must add.
                                                                                                                        Any ways I recently turned up the temperature on my heater (25.6
                                                                                                                        degrees C) and now my betta has become really happy again and swims all
                                                                                                                        around the tank.





                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 3
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 13:51:41 -0800 (PST)
                                                                                                                        From: paul helms
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help

                                                                                                                        put what you have listed in to start. in 2 weeks you
                                                                                                                        can add hermit crabs and a few snails to begin clean
                                                                                                                        up. in about 3-4 weeks, you can put in damsels. they
                                                                                                                        live through about anything, but they do become
                                                                                                                        territorial and aggrsessive towrds other fish. if you
                                                                                                                        want something in there, go with blue, green, or
                                                                                                                        yellow chromis. they are very mild mannered compared
                                                                                                                        to their cousin damsels, but just as hardy. damsels
                                                                                                                        and chromis run 3-4 dollars..
                                                                                                                        --- Charlene wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > HI Can I put the sand and live sand and live rock
                                                                                                                        > in my 55 ga. tank.
                                                                                                                        > When I start to Cycling the water. Or what can I put
                                                                                                                        > in it When it is
                                                                                                                        > Cycling. Thank you for helping me. Charlene
                                                                                                                        > muffin44945@com
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >



                                                                                                                        __________________________________
                                                                                                                        Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Personals - Better first dates. More second dates.
                                                                                                                        http://personals.yahoo.com



                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 4
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 22:01:22 -0000
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Whisper Micro Filter and Betta outlet flow hose



                                                                                                                        I did a quick search on the Whisper Micro Filter, it only pumps 265
                                                                                                                        litters per hour which is fine for your tank as it circulates the
                                                                                                                        tank twice an hour.

                                                                                                                        My one at home is much much much stronger its 1200 litters per hour
                                                                                                                        and I have a 4ft x 2.5ft x 18in tank (90gallons) and my filter
                                                                                                                        circulates the tank three times an hour.



                                                                                                                        My better has often swum into the main stream of the filter and was
                                                                                                                        blown from one end of the tank all the way to the other end, but he
                                                                                                                        hasn't developed a fear of the filter - actually its second most
                                                                                                                        favourite place in the tank.

                                                                                                                        I think maybe you should just let your Betta get use to the filter
                                                                                                                        because it shouldn't bother him based on my experience.




                                                                                                                        Suggestion to prevent flying Bettas!
                                                                                                                        ------------------------------------
                                                                                                                        More recently I went down to Bunnings (a hardware store) and brought
                                                                                                                        a long bit of clear hose about the length of my tank 4ft, it only
                                                                                                                        cost about AUSTRALIAN$2.50 and has the same size diameter as the
                                                                                                                        outlet pipe on my filter.

                                                                                                                        The goal was to place the hose over the outlet of the filter then
                                                                                                                        make lots of smaller holes all along the length of the hose and put
                                                                                                                        a cork in the other end of the hose hence reduce the strength of the
                                                                                                                        outlet water to as little as possible.


                                                                                                                        This has worked a treat and even the guppies don't get blown around
                                                                                                                        the tank or onto the rocks. I must mention thou one potential draw
                                                                                                                        back is the actual circulating speed of the tank has slowed down but
                                                                                                                        for me this was a benefit cause all the other fish in the community
                                                                                                                        can now swim against the current instead of hiding behind rocks.

                                                                                                                        I roughly measured the time it takes for a dead leaf to float from
                                                                                                                        one end of the tank to the other. To start with it was about 5
                                                                                                                        seconds but after the improved outlet hose it is now 15 seconds.

                                                                                                                        Initial flow rate of 1.5 meters per 5 seconds or 30cms/second.
                                                                                                                        Final flow rate of 1.5 meters per 15 seconds or 10cms/second.



                                                                                                                        FYI - My Betta had no trouble swimming against either of these
                                                                                                                        currents excluding the main outlet stream.




                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Linda" wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I purchased two 2.5 gallon aquariums for my 2 Betta Oscar and
                                                                                                                        > Rasco last Friday night.
                                                                                                                        > ...
                                                                                                                        > I was told that it was alright to use the Whisper Micro Filter
                                                                                                                        > that came with the tank and it was a good idea to have one.
                                                                                                                        > Tonight after work ... I added the Whisper Micro Filter...
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Poor Oscar freaked out! especially when I turned it on. I think
                                                                                                                        > he is very afraid of it. I ended up taking him out of his tank.
                                                                                                                        > I think he is doing better, but I also think he is totally pissed
                                                                                                                        > off at me for doing this [to him]. It was like he could not swim
                                                                                                                        > when the filter was turned on. I had it turned on low.
                                                                                                                        > ...
                                                                                                                        > Any suggestions?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Betta Smooches for now






                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 5
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 22:08:35 -0000
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Birth Patterns of Platties


                                                                                                                        Well from what I under stand they are similar to guppies.

                                                                                                                        I brought a breading trap to put inside my bigger tank. When I put
                                                                                                                        two females in it together they only produced a couple of babies I
                                                                                                                        think each were scared the other would eat all there off spring. So
                                                                                                                        I removed one of the mums and hay presto the other dumped the whole
                                                                                                                        lot in about half an hour then I returned that mum and put the other
                                                                                                                        mum in but she wouldn't drop her babies till I did a 25% water
                                                                                                                        change.

                                                                                                                        The other mum who was still in the tank still did drop here babies
                                                                                                                        well actually I thought i saw her drop on but as soon as she did
                                                                                                                        another daddy Guppies gobbled it up.

                                                                                                                        My mummy guppies that I leave in the tank never seam to give birth
                                                                                                                        or if they do it�fs as you say one baby at a time.


                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "karima_allison"
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I have a pregnant Platty in my tank, and last night I saw (just by
                                                                                                                        > chance) a tiny baby swimming towards the bottom of the tank
                                                                                                                        > but the mother is still pregnant - looks like she is going to
                                                                                                                        > burst :-)
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > My question is, what is the birthing patterns of Platties? Can
                                                                                                                        > they drop one and then a few days later drop another, etc.?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I also have two other babies that must have been born from this
                                                                                                                        > Platty, (because of the color - exactly like her and she is the
                                                                                                                        > only female of her type in the tank). These two babies are not
                                                                                                                        > the same size, but must be from different birthing times.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Sorry for my lack of the proper terms for these sorts of things,
                                                                                                                        > but I'm new at this. Some of my other Platties had babies last
                                                                                                                        > month and I count about 30 in all. They are three different
                                                                                                                        > colors and about 5 different sizes . . . .
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > ~Karima





                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 6
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 22:07:49 -0000
                                                                                                                        From: "melly0s"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad


                                                                                                                        i saw this on a post from a fish forum.
                                                                                                                        you should read the "Questions from other buyers" and his smart a$$
                                                                                                                        answer.

                                                                                                                        the video will tick you off.

                                                                                                                        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20755&item=4370111147&rd=1#ebayphotohosting


                                                                                                                        just frustrated and had to get it out.sorry for the rant.
                                                                                                                        love this group though!
                                                                                                                        mel





                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 7
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 23:34:14 +0100 (BST)
                                                                                                                        From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks

                                                                                                                        Flat front from me! with a bow you will have see fish
                                                                                                                        LONGGGGG or rounder or something like that due to its
                                                                                                                        shape!

                                                                                                                        Nigel

                                                                                                                        --- Eric Miner wrote:
                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------

                                                                                                                        Hi All,

                                                                                                                        I'm on the verge of getting my first tank. I want to
                                                                                                                        get folk's
                                                                                                                        opinion of bow tanks vs. flat front tanks. Any
                                                                                                                        comments? Good or Bad.

                                                                                                                        Thanks

                                                                                                                        Eric





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                        replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that
                                                                                                                        is not important to the reply and if changing the
                                                                                                                        topic of the original message modify the subject line
                                                                                                                        -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                        Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                        Message: 8
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 22:35:00 -0000
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Huge international betta show in Brisbane


                                                                                                                        YES YES PLEASE!!!!

                                                                                                                        TM please send it to me!


                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bettamuse"
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I thought I would take the opportunity to tell all the Aussies,
                                                                                                                        specially the Brisbane folk
                                                                                                                        > that there is the Pet and Hobby expo (April 15-17)fish show, this
                                                                                                                        is put on by the local fish
                                                                                                                        > clubs and run by QFAS.
                                                                                                                        > Part of it will be the First International Betta show held in
                                                                                                                        Australia. There are over 180
                                                                                                                        > International fish being sent over for the show as well as local
                                                                                                                        fish, that means there is
                                                                                                                        > well over 200 bettas on show. Should be quite a sight.
                                                                                                                        > The good news for the aussies is that all the overseas competitors
                                                                                                                        fish will be sold off after
                                                                                                                        > the show as it is too difficult to return them. So if anyone is
                                                                                                                        interested in showing their
                                                                                                                        > bettas or just would like the opportunity to buy a top quality
                                                                                                                        show fish, many
                                                                                                                        > internationals sent matching females to sell, let me know and I'll
                                                                                                                        give you the contact
                                                                                                                        > E-mail address to find out more.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Cheers
                                                                                                                        > BM





                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 9
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 23:37:08 +0100 (BST)
                                                                                                                        From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Still need help fry are still dying

                                                                                                                        are they eating something? are they ok i mean do they
                                                                                                                        have some defects or are he fry healthy themselves.
                                                                                                                        they coudl a genetic defect as well due to the amount
                                                                                                                        of selective breeding of guppies

                                                                                                                        NIgel


                                                                                                                        --- whatsdiggin wrote:
                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------

                                                                                                                        I had my tank water tested yesterday at the pet store
                                                                                                                        in town, they
                                                                                                                        said the water is good, and they don't know why my fry
                                                                                                                        (guppies) are
                                                                                                                        dying? Could someone Please help!





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when
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                                                                                                                        Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                        Message: 10
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 22:43:55 -0000
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!


                                                                                                                        I live in Brisbane (Queensland, Australia) there is a company here
                                                                                                                        called 'Aquarium Science' and the product is called 'Fungus & Finrot
                                                                                                                        Remedy' they also make heaps of other products, ive got the address on
                                                                                                                        the bottle if you need it.

                                                                                                                        The bottle says 'Active Constituents: 2.0mg/ml Acriflavine and 0.4mg/ml
                                                                                                                        Malachite Green'


                                                                                                                        I'm not sure if its the best brand but i got 500ml for AU$16.85 from my
                                                                                                                        LFS and its supposed to treat 2000 liters (almost 530 gal).

                                                                                                                        All my fish are happy and seams to have worked, i also raised the temp
                                                                                                                        in the tank to 25.5 degrees C (77.9F) which also made my Betta happier.




                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rei - Raymond Tremor"
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        > What brand of fin rot medicine are you using? I want to get some
                                                                                                                        > of that if it is that good. Thanks.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                        > LoveMoAko@H...
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > From: Nicolas J. Munro
                                                                                                                        > Date: 03/31/05 23:05:37
                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: betta tail biting?!?!
                                                                                                                        >...





                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 11
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 14:46:04 -0800 (PST)
                                                                                                                        From: ruth eubanks
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re: Still need help fry are still dying

                                                                                                                        Jim, I had the water tested for ammonia and the pet store said it was good.The water temp is 76 - 78. The pet store says 78 - 82 ? Its a 10 gal. tank. I feed them powered flakes 4 times a day. For the filter I have a UGF and it is working good, I have been useing the black carb w/ filter fiber. Just bought some new carbon, its a blend of the black carbon and the gray, and I put the filter fiber in as well. And for the water changes it come out to be 3 gallon, once a week, And I check the temp of the water before I put it into the tank to make sure the temp is the same. I have well water and the ph is 7.8, the pet store that the ph is fine? Thanks for your time.
                                                                                                                        Thanks again,
                                                                                                                        Ruth

                                                                                                                        jim wrote:

                                                                                                                        --- what was tested for,, what temperature do you maintain,, size of
                                                                                                                        tank,, other inhabitants,, what are you feeding,, how is filtration?
                                                                                                                        you must give up more info if you really expect anything in this
                                                                                                                        format, as we cant see your fish or equipment, we have to rely only on
                                                                                                                        what you tell us,,, you must telll us more,,,,,,,,,,,,,jim



                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "whatsdiggin"
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I had my tank water tested yesterday at the pet store in town, they
                                                                                                                        > said the water is good, and they don't know why my fry (guppies) are
                                                                                                                        > dying? Could someone Please help!









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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9936 From: pam phetteplace Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Metal in tank?
                                                                                                                        Being new to fishkeeping I have a question.  I have been using a metal "grabber" ( bought just for this specific purpose)  to pick up rocks. wood  etc. when needing to move them during tank cleaning. 
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Is this ok?  Or is there some negative effect to my fish if I use this for a minute in the tanks?
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        thanks
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Pam

                                                                                                                        AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

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                                                                                                                        There are 25 messages in this issue.

                                                                                                                        Topics in this digest:

                                                                                                                        1. Powpets! Special Invitation for AquaticLife group.
                                                                                                                        From: "zxav"
                                                                                                                        2. Re: Temperature and Betta
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        3. Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                        From: paul helms
                                                                                                                        4. Re: Whisper Micro Filter and Betta outlet flow hose
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        5. Re: Birth Patterns of Platties
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        6. Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        From: "melly0s"
                                                                                                                        7. Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
                                                                                                                        From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                        8. Re: Huge international betta show in Brisbane
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        9. Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                        10. Re: betta tail biting?!?!
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        11. Re: Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        From: ruth eubanks
                                                                                                                        12. Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        13. Re: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        14. RE: Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
                                                                                                                        From: "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                                        15. RE: Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        From: "Steve Szabo"
                                                                                                                        16. Re: Feeding
                                                                                                                        From: Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                        17. Re: Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        From: Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                        18. Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                        From: Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                        19. Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        From: FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                        20. Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        From: "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                        21. Hi, need help in new tank setup.
                                                                                                                        From: "khamul1of9"
                                                                                                                        22. Re: Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        From: Evita
                                                                                                                        23. Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        From: "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                        24. RE: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        From: Evita
                                                                                                                        25. Re: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        From: "Ray Wetzel"


                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 1
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 12:14:54 -0000
                                                                                                                        From: "zxav"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Powpets! Special Invitation for AquaticLife group.


                                                                                                                        Hi,

                                                                                                                        AquaticLife group is invited to join us at http://www.Powpets.com, a
                                                                                                                        newly launched pet lovers community, promoting love and interest
                                                                                                                        towards animals as well as to educate responsible pet guardianship
                                                                                                                        through active community building involvement.

                                                                                                                        As a way to say "Thank You" to our specially invited guest, you will
                                                                                                                        receive a Free Lifetime Powpets Rewards Account with 15MB of photo
                                                                                                                        storage space when you join our Powpets Network! This offer is
                                                                                                                        specially made ONLY to AquaticLife group owner.

                                                                                                                        Learn more about Powpets Rewards Account: http://rewards.powpets.com

                                                                                                                        Some features of Powpets includes:
                                                                                                                        - Pet discussions forum
                                                                                                                        - Photo Sharing 2MB Pet photo storage space
                                                                                                                        - Create Private Photo Album
                                                                                                                        - Create your Pet club
                                                                                                                        - Create events and discussions within your own Pet club.
                                                                                                                        - Monthly Pet Photo Contest.
                                                                                                                        - Create public listings

                                                                                                                        Please visit Http://www.powpets.com/forum/reg.html to register your
                                                                                                                        Powpets account.

                                                                                                                        After registration, please send us your Powpets username and email
                                                                                                                        address to moderator@... and we will set up your Rewards
                                                                                                                        Account within 24hours.



                                                                                                                        Regards,

                                                                                                                        Xavier Zou
                                                                                                                        Powpets! Moderator






                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 2
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 21:43:05 -0000
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Temperature and Betta


                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Linda" wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I purchased two 2.5 gallon aquariums for my 2 Betta Oscar and
                                                                                                                        > Rasco last Friday night. I had Oscar in his new home with a
                                                                                                                        > heater and he really loves it.

                                                                                                                        I think my betta enjoys warmer water too. Where i live we are comming
                                                                                                                        into autum/winter and the ambient temperature is dropping. My betta
                                                                                                                        started sitting on top of my filter even though there was little water
                                                                                                                        above it, his fins actually went above the water line leaving him half
                                                                                                                        wet and lying on his side, a scary sight i must add.
                                                                                                                        Any ways I recently turned up the temperature on my heater (25.6
                                                                                                                        degrees C) and now my betta has become really happy again and swims all
                                                                                                                        around the tank.





                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 3
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 13:51:41 -0800 (PST)
                                                                                                                        From: paul helms
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help

                                                                                                                        put what you have listed in to start. in 2 weeks you
                                                                                                                        can add hermit crabs and a few snails to begin clean
                                                                                                                        up. in about 3-4 weeks, you can put in damsels. they
                                                                                                                        live through about anything, but they do become
                                                                                                                        territorial and aggrsessive towrds other fish. if you
                                                                                                                        want something in there, go with blue, green, or
                                                                                                                        yellow chromis. they are very mild mannered compared
                                                                                                                        to their cousin damsels, but just as hardy. damsels
                                                                                                                        and chromis run 3-4 dollars..
                                                                                                                        --- Charlene wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > HI Can I put the sand and live sand and live rock
                                                                                                                        > in my 55 ga. tank.
                                                                                                                        > When I start to Cycling the water. Or what can I put
                                                                                                                        > in it When it is
                                                                                                                        > Cycling. Thank you for helping me. Charlene
                                                                                                                        > muffin44945@com
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                        Message: 4
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 22:01:22 -0000
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Whisper Micro Filter and Betta outlet flow hose



                                                                                                                        I did a quick search on the Whisper Micro Filter, it only pumps 265
                                                                                                                        litters per hour which is fine for your tank as it circulates the
                                                                                                                        tank twice an hour.

                                                                                                                        My one at home is much much much stronger its 1200 litters per hour
                                                                                                                        and I have a 4ft x 2.5ft x 18in tank (90gallons) and my filter
                                                                                                                        circulates the tank three times an hour.



                                                                                                                        My better has often swum into the main stream of the filter and was
                                                                                                                        blown from one end of the tank all the way to the other end, but he
                                                                                                                        hasn't developed a fear of the filter - actually its second most
                                                                                                                        favourite place in the tank.

                                                                                                                        I think maybe you should just let your Betta get use to the filter
                                                                                                                        because it shouldn't bother him based on my experience.




                                                                                                                        Suggestion to prevent flying Bettas!
                                                                                                                        ------------------------------------
                                                                                                                        More recently I went down to Bunnings (a hardware store) and brought
                                                                                                                        a long bit of clear hose about the length of my tank 4ft, it only
                                                                                                                        cost about AUSTRALIAN$2.50 and has the same size diameter as the
                                                                                                                        outlet pipe on my filter.

                                                                                                                        The goal was to place the hose over the outlet of the filter then
                                                                                                                        make lots of smaller holes all along the length of the hose and put
                                                                                                                        a cork in the other end of the hose hence reduce the strength of the
                                                                                                                        outlet water to as little as possible.


                                                                                                                        This has worked a treat and even the guppies don't get blown around
                                                                                                                        the tank or onto the rocks. I must mention thou one potential draw
                                                                                                                        back is the actual circulating speed of the tank has slowed down but
                                                                                                                        for me this was a benefit cause all the other fish in the community
                                                                                                                        can now swim against the current instead of hiding behind rocks.

                                                                                                                        I roughly measured the time it takes for a dead leaf to float from
                                                                                                                        one end of the tank to the other. To start with it was about 5
                                                                                                                        seconds but after the improved outlet hose it is now 15 seconds.

                                                                                                                        Initial flow rate of 1.5 meters per 5 seconds or 30cms/second.
                                                                                                                        Final flow rate of 1.5 meters per 15 seconds or 10cms/second.



                                                                                                                        FYI - My Betta had no trouble swimming against either of these
                                                                                                                        currents excluding the main outlet stream.




                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Linda" wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I purchased two 2.5 gallon aquariums for my 2 Betta Oscar and
                                                                                                                        > Rasco last Friday night.
                                                                                                                        > ...
                                                                                                                        > I was told that it was alright to use the Whisper Micro Filter
                                                                                                                        > that came with the tank and it was a good idea to have one.
                                                                                                                        > Tonight after work ... I added the Whisper Micro Filter...
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Poor Oscar freaked out! especially when I turned it on. I think
                                                                                                                        > he is very afraid of it. I ended up taking him out of his tank.
                                                                                                                        > I think he is doing better, but I also think he is totally pissed
                                                                                                                        > off at me for doing this [to him]. It was like he could not swim
                                                                                                                        > when the filter was turned on. I had it turned on low.
                                                                                                                        > ...
                                                                                                                        > Any suggestions?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Betta Smooches for now






                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 5
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 22:08:35 -0000
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Birth Patterns of Platties


                                                                                                                        Well from what I under stand they are similar to guppies.

                                                                                                                        I brought a breading trap to put inside my bigger tank. When I put
                                                                                                                        two females in it together they only produced a couple of babies I
                                                                                                                        think each were scared the other would eat all there off spring. So
                                                                                                                        I removed one of the mums and hay presto the other dumped the whole
                                                                                                                        lot in about half an hour then I returned that mum and put the other
                                                                                                                        mum in but she wouldn't drop her babies till I did a 25% water
                                                                                                                        change.

                                                                                                                        The other mum who was still in the tank still did drop here babies
                                                                                                                        well actually I thought i saw her drop on but as soon as she did
                                                                                                                        another daddy Guppies gobbled it up.

                                                                                                                        My mummy guppies that I leave in the tank never seam to give birth
                                                                                                                        or if they do it�fs as you say one baby at a time.


                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "karima_allison"
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I have a pregnant Platty in my tank, and last night I saw (just by
                                                                                                                        > chance) a tiny baby swimming towards the bottom of the tank
                                                                                                                        > but the mother is still pregnant - looks like she is going to
                                                                                                                        > burst :-)
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > My question is, what is the birthing patterns of Platties? Can
                                                                                                                        > they drop one and then a few days later drop another, etc.?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I also have two other babies that must have been born from this
                                                                                                                        > Platty, (because of the color - exactly like her and she is the
                                                                                                                        > only female of her type in the tank). These two babies are not
                                                                                                                        > the same size, but must be from different birthing times.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Sorry for my lack of the proper terms for these sorts of things,
                                                                                                                        > but I'm new at this. Some of my other Platties had babies last
                                                                                                                        > month and I count about 30 in all. They are three different
                                                                                                                        > colors and about 5 different sizes . . . .
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > ~Karima





                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 6
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 22:07:49 -0000
                                                                                                                        From: "melly0s"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad


                                                                                                                        i saw this on a post from a fish forum.
                                                                                                                        you should read the "Questions from other buyers" and his smart a$$
                                                                                                                        answer.

                                                                                                                        the video will tick you off.

                                                                                                                        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20755&item=4370111147&rd=1#ebayphotohosting


                                                                                                                        just frustrated and had to get it out.sorry for the rant.
                                                                                                                        love this group though!
                                                                                                                        mel





                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 7
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 23:34:14 +0100 (BST)
                                                                                                                        From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks

                                                                                                                        Flat front from me! with a bow you will have see fish
                                                                                                                        LONGGGGG or rounder or something like that due to its
                                                                                                                        shape!

                                                                                                                        Nigel

                                                                                                                        --- Eric Miner wrote:
                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------

                                                                                                                        Hi All,

                                                                                                                        I'm on the verge of getting my first tank. I want to
                                                                                                                        get folk's
                                                                                                                        opinion of bow tanks vs. flat front tanks. Any
                                                                                                                        comments? Good or Bad.

                                                                                                                        Thanks

                                                                                                                        Eric





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                        replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that
                                                                                                                        is not important to the reply and if changing the
                                                                                                                        topic of the original message modify the subject line
                                                                                                                        -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                        Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                                        Message: 8
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 22:35:00 -0000
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Huge international betta show in Brisbane


                                                                                                                        YES YES PLEASE!!!!

                                                                                                                        TM please send it to me!


                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bettamuse"
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I thought I would take the opportunity to tell all the Aussies,
                                                                                                                        specially the Brisbane folk
                                                                                                                        > that there is the Pet and Hobby expo (April 15-17)fish show, this
                                                                                                                        is put on by the local fish
                                                                                                                        > clubs and run by QFAS.
                                                                                                                        > Part of it will be the First International Betta show held in
                                                                                                                        Australia. There are over 180
                                                                                                                        > International fish being sent over for the show as well as local
                                                                                                                        fish, that means there is
                                                                                                                        > well over 200 bettas on show. Should be quite a sight.
                                                                                                                        > The good news for the aussies is that all the overseas competitors
                                                                                                                        fish will be sold off after
                                                                                                                        > the show as it is too difficult to return them. So if anyone is
                                                                                                                        interested in showing their
                                                                                                                        > bettas or just would like the opportunity to buy a top quality
                                                                                                                        show fish, many
                                                                                                                        > internationals sent matching females to sell, let me know and I'll
                                                                                                                        give you the contact
                                                                                                                        > E-mail address to find out more.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Cheers
                                                                                                                        > BM





                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 9
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 23:37:08 +0100 (BST)
                                                                                                                        From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Still need help fry are still dying

                                                                                                                        are they eating something? are they ok i mean do they
                                                                                                                        have some defects or are he fry healthy themselves.
                                                                                                                        they coudl a genetic defect as well due to the amount
                                                                                                                        of selective breeding of guppies

                                                                                                                        NIgel


                                                                                                                        --- whatsdiggin wrote:
                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------

                                                                                                                        I had my tank water tested yesterday at the pet store
                                                                                                                        in town, they
                                                                                                                        said the water is good, and they don't know why my fry
                                                                                                                        (guppies) are
                                                                                                                        dying? Could someone Please help!





                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when
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                                                                                                                        Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                        Message: 10
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 22:43:55 -0000
                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: betta tail biting?!?!


                                                                                                                        I live in Brisbane (Queensland, Australia) there is a company here
                                                                                                                        called 'Aquarium Science' and the product is called 'Fungus & Finrot
                                                                                                                        Remedy' they also make heaps of other products, ive got the address on
                                                                                                                        the bottle if you need it.

                                                                                                                        The bottle says 'Active Constituents: 2.0mg/ml Acriflavine and 0.4mg/ml
                                                                                                                        Malachite Green'


                                                                                                                        I'm not sure if its the best brand but i got 500ml for AU$16.85 from my
                                                                                                                        LFS and its supposed to treat 2000 liters (almost 530 gal).

                                                                                                                        All my fish are happy and seams to have worked, i also raised the temp
                                                                                                                        in the tank to 25.5 degrees C (77.9F) which also made my Betta happier.




                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rei - Raymond Tremor"
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        > What brand of fin rot medicine are you using? I want to get some
                                                                                                                        > of that if it is that good. Thanks.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                        > LoveMoAko@H...
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > From: Nicolas J. Munro
                                                                                                                        > Date: 03/31/05 23:05:37
                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: betta tail biting?!?!
                                                                                                                        >...





                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                        Message: 11
                                                                                                                        Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 14:46:04 -0800 (PST)
                                                                                                                        From: ruth eubanks
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re: Still need help fry are still dying

                                                                                                                        Jim, I had the water tested for ammonia and the pet store said it was good.The water temp is 76 - 78. The pet store says 78 - 82 ? Its a 10 gal. tank. I feed them powered flakes 4 times a day. For the filter I have a UGF and it is working good, I have been useing the black carb w/ filter fiber. Just bought some new carbon, its a blend of the black carbon and the gray, and I put the filter fiber in as well. And for the water changes it come out to be 3 gallon, once a week, And I check the temp of the water before I put it into the tank to make sure the temp is the same. I have well water and the ph is 7.8, the pet store that the ph is fine? Thanks for your time.
                                                                                                                        Thanks again,
                                                                                                                        Ruth

                                                                                                                        jim wrote:

                                                                                                                        --- what was tested for,, what temperature do you maintain,, size of
                                                                                                                        tank,, other inhabitants,, what are you feeding,, how is filtration?
                                                                                                                        you must give up more info if you really expect anything in this
                                                                                                                        format, as we cant see your fish or equipment, we have to rely only on
                                                                                                                        what you tell us,,, you must telll us more,,,,,,,,,,,,,jim



                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "whatsdiggin"
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I had my tank water tested yesterday at the pet store in town, they
                                                                                                                        > said the water is good, and they don't know why my fry (guppies) are
                                                                                                                        > dying? Could someone Please help!









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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9937 From: Nan Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        Patrick,

                                                                                                                        Of course he is going to stir up alot of controversy here in the
                                                                                                                        Aquarium/Fish Enthusiast world! My problem with it isn't the size,
                                                                                                                        because actually it looks to be comfortably sized for a Betta (I
                                                                                                                        wouldn't want to try to put anything else in there!) It is the method
                                                                                                                        of PLOPPING the Betta thru a funnel into the container! I was watching
                                                                                                                        and the Betta actually HIT the gravel. Enough times of hitting the
                                                                                                                        gravel and that fish isn't going to survive long at all. And probably
                                                                                                                        if the size was say about a gallon (it would take the whole gallon jug
                                                                                                                        to fill it almost to the top, so that the Betta still has room to
                                                                                                                        breathe), and the hole was larger so that the Betta could be netted I
                                                                                                                        would be all for it. As I see it now, though, I wouldn't consider it
                                                                                                                        for any of my stock. And I certainly wouldn't reccomend it!

                                                                                                                        ~Nan and Crew~
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9938 From: Nan Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can
                                                                                                                        When I said a fishless cycle I was talking about makeing sure that your
                                                                                                                        temps were right, and I forgot to add that, when I do a fishless cycle
                                                                                                                        I do use water from either one of my own aquariums to help set it for
                                                                                                                        the new one, or I "borrow" some water from a friend who already has an
                                                                                                                        established aquarium and it helps to get things going. I never
                                                                                                                        change the water during the fishless cycle, reason being it isn't
                                                                                                                        neccessary. There is nothing in there that has made it so that you
                                                                                                                        have to change the water. And I think that 2 weeks is just not
                                                                                                                        neccessary, and defiantely 30 days is overkill. Most people I know of
                                                                                                                        wait 3 days to a week. Then add a pair of whatever they want to get
                                                                                                                        started with, a week later add another pair, and so on until they are
                                                                                                                        comfortable with how it is stocked.

                                                                                                                        As usual, I just had to add my 2 cents worth..*grin*

                                                                                                                        ~Nan and Crew~
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9939 From: Amalthea Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        this really also depends on the filtration you use. i tend to use 3x
                                                                                                                        the necessary filtration in all of my tanks and when doing so, you can
                                                                                                                        often get away with using less space than you might ordinarily need.
                                                                                                                        amalthea


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                                                                                                                        On Apr 3, 2005, at 4:06 PM, Steve Szabo wrote:

                                                                                                                        > The twenty inches you refer to may be the size that the goldfish she
                                                                                                                        > had may
                                                                                                                        > reach, however, if they were comets, they would grow to approximately
                                                                                                                        > 12".
                                                                                                                        > The 30 gallons per adult fish applies to what ever the variety of
                                                                                                                        > goldfish
                                                                                                                        > one may have. Many of the varieties of gold fish have a compressed
                                                                                                                        > body
                                                                                                                        > length of 6-8" when full grown. The make up for this compression by
                                                                                                                        > being
                                                                                                                        > egg shaped. Even though they are less than the common and comet
                                                                                                                        > goldfish,
                                                                                                                        > they still need the 30 gallons of water to do well when they are
                                                                                                                        > adults.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Evita refers to the fish she had as having stopped growing. The story
                                                                                                                        > that a
                                                                                                                        > fish will grow to the capacity of a tank is a myth that has more than
                                                                                                                        > a
                                                                                                                        > grain of truth in it. Many, if not all, fish secrete a hormone that
                                                                                                                        > will at
                                                                                                                        > least slow growth, if not stop it. The secretion affects other fish
                                                                                                                        > as well
                                                                                                                        > as the one who secretes it. Goldfish seem to be very much affected by
                                                                                                                        > this
                                                                                                                        > hormone, and do seem to stop growing once a certain size has been
                                                                                                                        > reached,
                                                                                                                        > in cramped quarters, especially if one is not doing regular water
                                                                                                                        > changes.
                                                                                                                        > Paul, you were around and participated in the water change battle that
                                                                                                                        > occurred a while back. This is one of the reasons why one should do
                                                                                                                        > water
                                                                                                                        > changes--to remove compounds we do not or cannot measure.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I have had some replies to a posting about the 1" rule I placed in
                                                                                                                        > another
                                                                                                                        > list, and this myth has been around for more than 50 years, though no
                                                                                                                        > one
                                                                                                                        > has pinpointed the time of its origin yet (if anyone can do it, it
                                                                                                                        > will be
                                                                                                                        > the guys on that list). It seems to have stemmed from a complex
                                                                                                                        > formula
                                                                                                                        > based on surface area, that William T. Innes put forth. It is unclear
                                                                                                                        > whether Innes developed the formula himself, or if he merely
                                                                                                                        > popularized the
                                                                                                                        > work of another. The 1" rule, as we know it today was a perversion of
                                                                                                                        > that
                                                                                                                        > formula to the extreme by one Herbert Axelrod. Myself speaking again,
                                                                                                                        > there
                                                                                                                        > has been work done, to show that this rule is not true. A lot was
                                                                                                                        > done by
                                                                                                                        > Steve Meyer, particularly concerning koi and goldfish, and published
                                                                                                                        > in
                                                                                                                        > _Aquarium Fish Magazine_. His formulae can be applied to other fish,
                                                                                                                        > but
                                                                                                                        > probably do not tell the whole story, as I am sure that activity of
                                                                                                                        > the fish
                                                                                                                        > in question would also factor into it, which he does not allow. His
                                                                                                                        > work
                                                                                                                        > deals with koi and goldfish, as stated above.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Oh, there are so many paths that can be taken and followed in this
                                                                                                                        > hobby of
                                                                                                                        > ours, once we have mastered the basics of keeping the fish alive.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        > From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
                                                                                                                        > Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 2:34 PM
                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help
                                                                                                                        > I can
                                                                                                                        > get!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > the reference to thirty gallons for an adult goldfish
                                                                                                                        > is for oine that is everal years old, as they do hit
                                                                                                                        > 20 inches or so, so even if you went by the old
                                                                                                                        > generality of 1 inch per gallon, they are close to
                                                                                                                        > correct.  the other reason for so large a tank is that
                                                                                                                        > goldfish are among the messiest fish around and could
                                                                                                                        > use the excess water volume to make things easier on
                                                                                                                        > you.  small goldfish should have about 2 gallons for
                                                                                                                        > every in ch, again using generality.  the higher the
                                                                                                                        > quality of your filtration the less volume is needed,
                                                                                                                        > and the less work you have to do.  likewise, the
                                                                                                                        > larger the volume the more self sufficient the tank
                                                                                                                        > will be.  i hope that your experience with posts get s
                                                                                                                        > better.
                                                                                                                        > paul
                                                                                                                        > --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > > Steve, excuse me.  Are you saying that one needs a
                                                                                                                        > > pool basically to keep a goldfish and a cup to keep
                                                                                                                        > > a Beta?  My fish were very tiny....Now I am just
                                                                                                                        > > plain flabber gasted.  I feel like you are attacking
                                                                                                                        > > me some how.  I am wondering if anyone in the group
                                                                                                                        > > keeps goldfish.  I didn't have a bowl I had a 20 gal
                                                                                                                        > > tank.  They were way under the limit as far as
                                                                                                                        > > inches.  My problem was I wasn't aware of the water
                                                                                                                        > > changes needed.  Most people start with goldfish
                                                                                                                        > > thinking they are easy ...I never heard someone say
                                                                                                                        > > get a 30 gal tank and put one 2.00 goldfish in it
                                                                                                                        > > and never add anymore.  Now around here a 150 gal.
                                                                                                                        > > tank would run you about 500.00 plus.  If they are
                                                                                                                        > > that hard to keep why would anyone keep them?  I
                                                                                                                        > > realize you are trying to help but...
                                                                                                                        > > 
                                                                                                                        > > I have been working a ton lately and have barely had
                                                                                                                        > > time to read all my new mail must less answer it.
                                                                                                                        > > For that I am really sorry.  I had no idea how much
                                                                                                                        > > and many comments I would get.    Oh, yesterday I
                                                                                                                        > > was able to buy some books off of a friend.
                                                                                                                        > > Beginner type books she no longer needed and it is
                                                                                                                        > > proving to be very helpful as well.  I haven't had
                                                                                                                        > > time to post them as of yet but these are my numbers
                                                                                                                        > > for yesterday.  This is day four of my tanks being
                                                                                                                        > > filled with water.  I posted this insert in another
                                                                                                                        > > group.  My tanks are still clear and I am trying to
                                                                                                                        > > get the heat settings at about 72-75.  This is hit
                                                                                                                        > > and miss for me right now.  I have them at 78 right
                                                                                                                        > > now.  Thanks again in advance. 
                                                                                                                        > > 
                                                                                                                        > > I filled my
                                                                                                                        > > tanks up at the same time 3 days ago. I added
                                                                                                                        > > decloriner and I am
                                                                                                                        > > just letting them sit as of know to let it cycle. I
                                                                                                                        > > tested the water
                                                                                                                        > > this morning on both tanks and not surprizenly they
                                                                                                                        > > are the same.
                                                                                                                        > > Here are my staits as they were:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Nitrate- 20 on the chart says OK, Nitrite between 0-
                                                                                                                        > > .5 Middle
                                                                                                                        > > between caution and safe I am saying around 2.5
                                                                                                                        > > range, My hardness
                                                                                                                        > > is 75 which they call soft, The Alkalinity is at 40
                                                                                                                        > > which it says
                                                                                                                        > > good, and my ph is 6.8.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > I am planning a water change possibly in a week.
                                                                                                                        > > Which is the best
                                                                                                                        > > time to do a non-fish water change. Do I need to see
                                                                                                                        > > my numbers go
                                                                                                                        > > up first since I have no fish as of yet? I am trying
                                                                                                                        > > to get the
                                                                                                                        > > tanks suitable to add my first few fish and add
                                                                                                                        > > other fish slowly. I
                                                                                                                        > > was told by the pet-shop I could add fish in a week
                                                                                                                        > > ...two weeks to
                                                                                                                        > > be safe, but I have read with starting up it is best
                                                                                                                        > > to do at least a
                                                                                                                        > > 30 day non-fish cycle before adding fish. The
                                                                                                                        > > pet-shops really don't
                                                                                                                        > > care because if the fish die they just sell you
                                                                                                                        > > more. It isn't in
                                                                                                                        > > their interest to prevent fish deaths. I don't want
                                                                                                                        > > to kill fish to
                                                                                                                        > > find out if my tanks are ready. I would rather be
                                                                                                                        > > safe than sorry.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Sorry so long. I have one more silly question
                                                                                                                        > > that bugs me on the subject of the number of fish to
                                                                                                                        > > keep for the
                                                                                                                        > > water gal of the tank. They say so many inches of
                                                                                                                        > > fish but that the
                                                                                                                        > > size isn't a factor. I was thinking community fish
                                                                                                                        > > platies and
                                                                                                                        > > guppies to start. I thought of Mollies and have sore
                                                                                                                        > > of changed my
                                                                                                                        > > mind a bit on them. But in regards to the platies
                                                                                                                        > > and guppies, why
                                                                                                                        > > do they count the same in length even though guppies
                                                                                                                        > > seem so much
                                                                                                                        > > smaller. For my 30 gal they said no more than 15
                                                                                                                        > > fish or guppies
                                                                                                                        > > size in that range. The guppies are so small, at 15
                                                                                                                        > > guppies you
                                                                                                                        > > might hardly see or notice them at all. The larger
                                                                                                                        > > in size but the
                                                                                                                        > > same in length platies would make the tank look much
                                                                                                                        > > fuller. So why
                                                                                                                        > > are they counted the same. What about those (SORRY
                                                                                                                        > > FORGOT THE NAME}
                                                                                                                        > > long snake like skinny fish that stay on the bottom.
                                                                                                                        > > They a really
                                                                                                                        > > small but at the same time about 4 inches long. I
                                                                                                                        > > thought one also
                                                                                                                        > > took into consideration where the fish feed and live
                                                                                                                        > > like bottom,
                                                                                                                        > > middle and top as well as being bigger in size not
                                                                                                                        > > just head to tail
                                                                                                                        > > length.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Anyway look forward to any and all comments for
                                                                                                                        > > new-bees. Thanks,
                                                                                                                        > > Hope I am not to chatty....I tend to be that way.
                                                                                                                        > > Evita
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >  Evita
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > > FWIW, a goldfish should live 20+ years. An adult
                                                                                                                        > > goldfish should have a
                                                                                                                        > > minimum of 30 gallons of water per fish--for your 5,
                                                                                                                        > > you should have had a
                                                                                                                        > > tank of 120-150 gallons.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Goldfish are messy fish. They produce a lot of
                                                                                                                        > > waste. Someone mentioned
                                                                                                                        > > earlier cleaning the filter once a month--bad idea.
                                                                                                                        > > Especially for fish like
                                                                                                                        > > goldfish, a filter should be serviced at least once
                                                                                                                        > > a week, or when the flow
                                                                                                                        > > of water slows.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > If you are going to start with more tropical fish
                                                                                                                        > > now, read up about them.
                                                                                                                        > > Probably time to get a good book to go along with
                                                                                                                        > > the stuff you pull off the
                                                                                                                        > > Internet. I recommend the Baench _Aquarium Atlas_ as
                                                                                                                        > > a good book for those
                                                                                                                        > > who are starting and want to do things right. Get
                                                                                                                        > > Volume 1, and don't worry
                                                                                                                        > > about the other volumes for know. It has a good
                                                                                                                        > > section on setting up and
                                                                                                                        > > maintaining an aquarium. It has a short, but good,
                                                                                                                        > > section on live plants,
                                                                                                                        > > and, of course, lots and lots of fish.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Guppies can easily be kept at room temperature,
                                                                                                                        > > 68-72^o F.+. Platies, as I
                                                                                                                        > > recollect, would be the same. despite their
                                                                                                                        > > reputation as a "beginner's"
                                                                                                                        > > fish, mollies really are not, and I'd not recommend
                                                                                                                        > > them for one who is just
                                                                                                                        > > learning how to do things right.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > I'd probably throw in a couple of cory catfish to go
                                                                                                                        > > with the guppies and
                                                                                                                        > > platies. They are relatively hardy, and pH is not
                                                                                                                        > > critical for them, though
                                                                                                                        > > they tend to come from waters that are sub 7.0 pH,
                                                                                                                        > > while the guppies and
                                                                                                                        > > platies are found inters that are more than 7.0 pH.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > The guppies will stay, pretty much, in the top third
                                                                                                                        > > of the tank. The
                                                                                                                        > > platies will also spend a lot of time in the top
                                                                                                                        > > third of the tank. The
                                                                                                                        > > catfish you chose will mainly stay in the bottom
                                                                                                                        > > third of the tank. You will
                                                                                                                        > > probably want to get a fish that will spend time in
                                                                                                                        > > the middle third of the
                                                                                                                        > > tank.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                        > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                        > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                        > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9940 From: Bill Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        There are a lot of "RULES OF THUMB" in life and thats just what they
                                                                                                                        are, a "rule of thumb". The current modern expression of the 1inch
                                                                                                                        rule is "For an average aquarium with average size fish, you can have
                                                                                                                        about 1 inch of fish per gallon." There needs to be a little
                                                                                                                        more "explanation" that goes with that of course, or it looses
                                                                                                                        meaning. But thats why its A RULE OF THUMB. My other favorite
                                                                                                                        is "You should drive one car length per 10 miles per hour behind the
                                                                                                                        next car".
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9941 From: Dawana Branch Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Goldfish was Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I ca
                                                                                                                        As a relatively new goldfish hobbyist, all the info I've been reading has suggested that fancy goldfish need at least ten (10) gallons per fish and/or 20 gal for the first fish and 10 gal for each additional fish.  Goldfish are extremely messy fish.  I have 2 fancies in a 29 gallon and it is way over filtered and they are still super-messy.  I think also this is if you want your goldfish to live long healthy lives. Remember again, that goldfish are supposed to live upwards of 20 years.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        My two cents.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Smiles,
                                                                                                                        Dawana
                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        From: paul helms
                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 2:33 PM
                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!


                                                                                                                        the reference to thirty gallons for an adult goldfish
                                                                                                                        is for oine that is everal years old, as they do hit
                                                                                                                        20 inches or so, so even if you went by the old
                                                                                                                        generality of 1 inch per gallon, they are close to
                                                                                                                        correct.  the other reason for so large a tank is that
                                                                                                                        goldfish are among the messiest fish around and could
                                                                                                                        use the excess water volume to make things easier on
                                                                                                                        you.  small goldfish should have about 2 gallons for
                                                                                                                        every in ch, again using generality.  the higher the
                                                                                                                        quality of your filtration the less volume is needed,
                                                                                                                        and the less work you have to do.  likewise, the
                                                                                                                        larger the volume the more self sufficient the tank
                                                                                                                        will be.  i hope that your experience with posts get s
                                                                                                                        better.
                                                                                                                        paul
                                                                                                                        --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        > Steve, excuse me.  Are you saying that one needs a
                                                                                                                        > pool basically to keep a goldfish and a cup to keep
                                                                                                                        > a Beta?  My fish were very tiny....Now I am just
                                                                                                                        > plain flabber gasted.  I feel like you are attacking
                                                                                                                        > me some how.  I am wondering if anyone in the group
                                                                                                                        > keeps goldfish.  I didn't have a bowl I had a 20 gal
                                                                                                                        > tank.  They were way under the limit as far as
                                                                                                                        > inches.  My problem was I wasn't aware of the water
                                                                                                                        > changes needed.  Most people start with goldfish
                                                                                                                        > thinking they are easy ...I never heard someone say
                                                                                                                        > get a 30 gal tank and put one 2.00 goldfish in it
                                                                                                                        > and never add anymore.  Now around here a 150 gal.
                                                                                                                        > tank would run you about 500.00 plus.  If they are
                                                                                                                        > that hard to keep why would anyone keep them?  I
                                                                                                                        > realize you are trying to help but...

                                                                                                                        > I have been working a ton lately and have barely had
                                                                                                                        > time to read all my new mail must less answer it.
                                                                                                                        > For that I am really sorry.  I had no idea how much
                                                                                                                        > and many comments I would get.    Oh, yesterday I
                                                                                                                        > was able to buy some books off of a friend.
                                                                                                                        > Beginner type books she no longer needed and it is
                                                                                                                        > proving to be very helpful as well.  I haven't had
                                                                                                                        > time to post them as of yet but these are my numbers
                                                                                                                        > for yesterday.  This is day four of my tanks being
                                                                                                                        > filled with water.  I posted this insert in another
                                                                                                                        > group.  My tanks are still clear and I am trying to
                                                                                                                        > get the heat settings at about 72-75.  This is hit
                                                                                                                        > and miss for me right now.  I have them at 78 right
                                                                                                                        > now.  Thanks again in advance. 

                                                                                                                        > I filled my
                                                                                                                        > tanks up at the same time 3 days ago. I added
                                                                                                                        > decloriner and I am
                                                                                                                        > just letting them sit as of know to let it cycle. I
                                                                                                                        > tested the water
                                                                                                                        > this morning on both tanks and not surprizenly they
                                                                                                                        > are the same.
                                                                                                                        > Here are my staits as they were:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nitrate- 20 on the chart says OK, Nitrite between 0-
                                                                                                                        > .5 Middle
                                                                                                                        > between caution and safe I am saying around 2.5
                                                                                                                        > range, My hardness
                                                                                                                        > is 75 which they call soft, The Alkalinity is at 40
                                                                                                                        > which it says
                                                                                                                        > good, and my ph is 6.8.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I am planning a water change possibly in a week.
                                                                                                                        > Which is the best
                                                                                                                        > time to do a non-fish water change. Do I need to see
                                                                                                                        > my numbers go
                                                                                                                        > up first since I have no fish as of yet? I am trying
                                                                                                                        > to get the
                                                                                                                        > tanks suitable to add my first few fish and add
                                                                                                                        > other fish slowly. I
                                                                                                                        > was told by the pet-shop I could add fish in a week
                                                                                                                        > ...two weeks to
                                                                                                                        > be safe, but I have read with starting up it is best
                                                                                                                        > to do at least a
                                                                                                                        > 30 day non-fish cycle before adding fish. The
                                                                                                                        > pet-shops really don't
                                                                                                                        > care because if the fish die they just sell you
                                                                                                                        > more. It isn't in
                                                                                                                        > their interest to prevent fish deaths. I don't want
                                                                                                                        > to kill fish to
                                                                                                                        > find out if my tanks are ready. I would rather be
                                                                                                                        > safe than sorry.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Sorry so long. I have one more silly question
                                                                                                                        > that bugs me on the subject of the number of fish to
                                                                                                                        > keep for the
                                                                                                                        > water gal of the tank. They say so many inches of
                                                                                                                        > fish but that the
                                                                                                                        > size isn't a factor. I was thinking community fish
                                                                                                                        > platies and
                                                                                                                        > guppies to start. I thought of Mollies and have sore
                                                                                                                        > of changed my
                                                                                                                        > mind a bit on them. But in regards to the platies
                                                                                                                        > and guppies, why
                                                                                                                        > do they count the same in length even though guppies
                                                                                                                        > seem so much
                                                                                                                        > smaller. For my 30 gal they said no more than 15
                                                                                                                        > fish or guppies
                                                                                                                        > size in that range. The guppies are so small, at 15
                                                                                                                        > guppies you
                                                                                                                        > might hardly see or notice them at all. The larger
                                                                                                                        > in size but the
                                                                                                                        > same in length platies would make the tank look much
                                                                                                                        > fuller. So why
                                                                                                                        > are they counted the same. What about those (SORRY
                                                                                                                        > FORGOT THE NAME}
                                                                                                                        > long snake like skinny fish that stay on the bottom.
                                                                                                                        > They a really
                                                                                                                        > small but at the same time about 4 inches long. I
                                                                                                                        > thought one also
                                                                                                                        > took into consideration where the fish feed and live
                                                                                                                        > like bottom,
                                                                                                                        > middle and top as well as being bigger in size not
                                                                                                                        > just head to tail
                                                                                                                        > length.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Anyway look forward to any and all comments for
                                                                                                                        > new-bees. Thanks,
                                                                                                                        > Hope I am not to chatty....I tend to be that way.
                                                                                                                        > Evita
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >  Evita
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > FWIW, a goldfish should live 20+ years. An adult
                                                                                                                        > goldfish should have a
                                                                                                                        > minimum of 30 gallons of water per fish--for your 5,
                                                                                                                        > you should have had a
                                                                                                                        > tank of 120-150 gallons.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Goldfish are messy fish. They produce a lot of
                                                                                                                        > waste. Someone mentioned
                                                                                                                        > earlier cleaning the filter once a month--bad idea.
                                                                                                                        > Especially for fish like
                                                                                                                        > goldfish, a filter should be serviced at least once
                                                                                                                        > a week, or when the flow
                                                                                                                        > of water slows.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > If you are going to start with more tropical fish
                                                                                                                        > now, read up about them.
                                                                                                                        > Probably time to get a good book to go along with
                                                                                                                        > the stuff you pull off the
                                                                                                                        > Internet. I recommend the Baench _Aquarium Atlas_ as
                                                                                                                        > a good book for those
                                                                                                                        > who are starting and want to do things right. Get
                                                                                                                        > Volume 1, and don't worry
                                                                                                                        > about the other volumes for know. It has a good
                                                                                                                        > section on setting up and
                                                                                                                        > maintaining an aquarium. It has a short, but good,
                                                                                                                        > section on live plants,
                                                                                                                        > and, of course, lots and lots of fish.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Guppies can easily be kept at room temperature,
                                                                                                                        > 68-72^o F.+. Platies, as I
                                                                                                                        > recollect, would be the same. despite their
                                                                                                                        > reputation as a "beginner's"
                                                                                                                        > fish, mollies really are not, and I'd not recommend
                                                                                                                        > them for one who is just
                                                                                                                        > learning how to do things right.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I'd probably throw in a couple of cory catfish to go
                                                                                                                        > with the guppies and
                                                                                                                        > platies. They are relatively hardy, and pH is not
                                                                                                                        > critical for them, though
                                                                                                                        > they tend to come from waters that are sub 7.0 pH,
                                                                                                                        > while the guppies and
                                                                                                                        > platies are found inters that are more than 7.0 pH.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > The guppies will stay, pretty much, in the top third
                                                                                                                        > of the tank. The
                                                                                                                        > platies will also spend a lot of time in the top
                                                                                                                        > third of the tank. The
                                                                                                                        > catfish you chose will mainly stay in the bottom
                                                                                                                        > third of the tank. You will
                                                                                                                        > probably want to get a fish that will spend time in
                                                                                                                        > the middle third of the
                                                                                                                        > tank.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                                        > Personals




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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9942 From: harry perry Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!/inch rule,co
                                                                                                                        The size should be calculated on what the fish will be full grown. Fish's growth can be stunted by the size of the tank. Some fish produce more waste than others I.E. goldfish vs. tropicals.Also weekly water changes and other maintenance can effect this rule. Your tank will seek it's own level eventually. By disease (ick) etc. An expensive lesson. I prefer the rule "ther's no such thing as too many tanks".
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Harry   

                                                                                                                        Bill <MRAQUACULTURE@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        There are a lot of "RULES OF THUMB" in life and thats just what they
                                                                                                                        are, a "rule of thumb".  The current modern expression of the 1inch
                                                                                                                        rule is "For an average aquarium with average size fish, you can have
                                                                                                                        about 1 inch of fish per gallon."  There needs to be a little
                                                                                                                        more "explanation" that goes with that of course, or it looses
                                                                                                                        meaning.  But thats why its A RULE OF THUMB.  My other favorite
                                                                                                                        is "You should drive one car length per 10 miles per hour behind the
                                                                                                                        next car".





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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9943 From: Kyle Osterholt Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: glass block betta aquarium
                                                                                                                        He has sold 4 on ebay and has one presently listed.  I agree with the stressful methods shown in the video.  I "asked seller a question" and mentioned how stressful his methods were at adding the fish and water as well as how his "water changes" were causing more stress than it was worth.  I tried giving him a short school in the nitrogen cycle and and begged him to at least update his cleaning methods and tell the customer to use a turkey baster to try and change about 30% of the water twice a week.  I ran out of letters (limit on the ebay form) to mention chlorine eliminator.  As for the size, that's a very opinionated subject as far as I'm concerned.  It doesn't look big enough, I'll give you that, but unfortunately every betta I've ever kept never really wanted to move around anyways.  I've never kept them in anything smaller than a 1 gallon tank with UGF but the same fish in a 55 gallon stayed put until I fed them or if he was hunting guppies to murder at night.  I would want to give him some live plants at the least but as long as the water is kept clean, he should be fine.  as pointed out, very few betta's even see that much room if they live long enough to even leave the store.  I personally would like to see Betta splendens discontinued in the fish trade and be replaced with something more community friendly like imbelis or mahachai (can't ever remember the exact spelling of that name).  Then maybe the tiny tanks will disappear along with them.  As long as the nasty splendens is sold, the bowls and tiny tanks will still be dispersed as well.  best we can do is try to educate people as to how to make their environment the best it can be.  I have a friend with a 1-1.5 gallon tank with a betta splendens that somehow has survived 3 years with regular 100% teardown and cleanings.  I recently schooled them on the nitrogen cycle and they've started doing partial changes weekly.  Kyle


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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9944 From: bettamuse Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Huge international betta show in Brisbane
                                                                                                                        -
                                                                                                                        If you go to The Australian Betta Board
                                                                                                                        http://pub35.ezboard.com/btheaustralianbettaboard.
                                                                                                                        There is a thread there by the people running the show.
                                                                                                                        All the betta show tanks will be supplied so all you need to do is
                                                                                                                        bring your fish and about 2L of water, as easy as that. Some of the
                                                                                                                        tanks will be sold off after the show at a very reasonable price as
                                                                                                                        well.

                                                                                                                        BM
                                                                                                                        -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas J. Munro" <nedarg@h...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > YES YES PLEASE!!!!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > TM please send it to me!


                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9945 From: Amalthea Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: glass block betta aquarium
                                                                                                                        my betta is in a 55 gallon and is never in the same place twice. he's
                                                                                                                        ridiculously active, and only seems to bother one of my sharks. while
                                                                                                                        i've kept them in smaller tanks and they seemed ok, i have to say this
                                                                                                                        seems to be that happiest one i've kept.
                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                        http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                                        Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                                                        On Apr 3, 2005, at 8:41 PM, Kyle Osterholt wrote:

                                                                                                                        > He has sold 4 on ebay and has one presently listed.  I agree with the
                                                                                                                        > stressful methods shown in the video.  I "asked seller a question" and
                                                                                                                        > mentioned how stressful his methods were at adding the fish and water
                                                                                                                        > as well as how his "water changes" were causing more stress than it
                                                                                                                        > was worth.  I tried giving him a short school in the nitrogen cycle
                                                                                                                        > and and begged him to at least update his cleaning methods and tell
                                                                                                                        > the customer to use a turkey baster to try and change about 30% of the
                                                                                                                        > water twice a week.  I ran out of letters (limit on the ebay form) to
                                                                                                                        > mention chlorine eliminator.  As for the size, that's a very
                                                                                                                        > opinionated subject as far as I'm concerned.  It doesn't look big
                                                                                                                        > enough, I'll give you that, but unfortunately every betta I've ever
                                                                                                                        > kept never really wanted to move around anyways.  I've never kept them
                                                                                                                        > in anything smaller than a 1 gallon tank with UGF but the same fish in
                                                                                                                        > a 55 gallon stayed put until I fed them or if he was hunting guppies
                                                                                                                        > to murder at night.  I would want to give him some live plants at the
                                                                                                                        > least but as long as the water is kept clean, he should be fine.  as
                                                                                                                        > pointed out, very few betta's even see that much room if they live
                                                                                                                        > long enough to even leave the store.  I personally would like to see
                                                                                                                        > Betta splendens discontinued in the fish trade and be replaced with
                                                                                                                        > something more community friendly like imbelis or mahachai (can't ever
                                                                                                                        > remember the exact spelling of that name).  Then maybe the tiny tanks
                                                                                                                        > will disappear along with them.  As long as the nasty splendens is
                                                                                                                        > sold, the bowls and tiny tanks will still be dispersed as well.  best
                                                                                                                        > we can do is try to educate people as to how to make their environment
                                                                                                                        > the best it can be.  I have a friend with a 1-1.5 gallon tank with a
                                                                                                                        > betta splendens that somehow has survived 3 years with regular 100%
                                                                                                                        > teardown and cleanings.  I recently schooled them on the nitrogen
                                                                                                                        > cycle and they've started doing partial changes weekly.  Kyle
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9946 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Does the Group?
                                                                                                                        Sounds good. Try to be there.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Robyn
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9947 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        does anyone even know where the rule of thumb
                                                                                                                        originates on this site/ it is hilarious
                                                                                                                        --- Bill <MRAQUACULTURE@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > There are a lot of "RULES OF THUMB" in life and
                                                                                                                        > thats just what they
                                                                                                                        > are, a "rule of thumb". The current modern
                                                                                                                        > expression of the 1inch
                                                                                                                        > rule is "For an average aquarium with average size
                                                                                                                        > fish, you can have
                                                                                                                        > about 1 inch of fish per gallon." There needs to be
                                                                                                                        > a little
                                                                                                                        > more "explanation" that goes with that of course, or
                                                                                                                        > it looses
                                                                                                                        > meaning. But thats why its A RULE OF THUMB. My
                                                                                                                        > other favorite
                                                                                                                        > is "You should drive one car length per 10 miles per
                                                                                                                        > hour behind the
                                                                                                                        > next car".
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9948 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can
                                                                                                                        that is not a fishless cycle. a tank is not cycled
                                                                                                                        for 4 to six weeks. if there are fish in there
                                                                                                                        beforfe the spikes have both occured, you ARE NOT
                                                                                                                        doing a fishless cycle. i only make this point
                                                                                                                        because i do rely on ojnly fishlesss cycles. 3 days
                                                                                                                        does nnot cycle a tank no matter what. even just
                                                                                                                        moving a tank causes a mini 2 week cycle.
                                                                                                                        --- Nan <ntalb00@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > When I said a fishless cycle I was talking about
                                                                                                                        > makeing sure that your
                                                                                                                        > temps were right, and I forgot to add that, when I
                                                                                                                        > do a fishless cycle
                                                                                                                        > I do use water from either one of my own aquariums
                                                                                                                        > to help set it for
                                                                                                                        > the new one, or I "borrow" some water from a friend
                                                                                                                        > who already has an
                                                                                                                        > established aquarium and it helps to get things
                                                                                                                        > going. I never
                                                                                                                        > change the water during the fishless cycle, reason
                                                                                                                        > being it isn't
                                                                                                                        > neccessary. There is nothing in there that has made
                                                                                                                        > it so that you
                                                                                                                        > have to change the water. And I think that 2 weeks
                                                                                                                        > is just not
                                                                                                                        > neccessary, and defiantely 30 days is overkill.
                                                                                                                        > Most people I know of
                                                                                                                        > wait 3 days to a week. Then add a pair of whatever
                                                                                                                        > they want to get
                                                                                                                        > started with, a week later add another pair, and so
                                                                                                                        > on until they are
                                                                                                                        > comfortable with how it is stocked.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > As usual, I just had to add my 2 cents worth..*grin*
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > ~Nan and Crew~
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9949 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: glass block betta aquarium
                                                                                                                            Suggesting we should just stop keeping b Splendens all together?  Kyle, I understand how you feel, bettas are often mistreated, but I don't agree that getting rid of them will do any good.  Nitrogen cycle (that great circle I personally think everyone should know about) is useless in an unfiltered tank, large water changes and cleanings are required.  Ask any fish breeder, most will say that they keep their bettas in unfiltered jars and do regular, large water changes.  That is a lot better for them than letting them live in 2 ppm ammonia, 1 ppm nitrite, and 100 ppm nitrate, isn't it?  I would think the other betta species would be bred the same way.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                        ...I personally would like to see Betta splendens discontinued in the fish trade and be replaced with something more community friendly like imbelis or mahachai (can't ever remember the exact spelling of that name).  Then maybe the tiny tanks will disappear along with them.  As long as the nasty splendens is sold, the bowls and tiny tanks will still be dispersed as well.  best we can do is try to educate people as to how to make their environment the best it can be.  I have a friend with a 1-1.5 gallon tank with a betta splendens that somehow has survived 3 years with regular 100% teardown and cleanings.  I recently schooled them on the nitrogen cycle and they've started doing partial changes weekly.  Kyle
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9950 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Metal in tank?
                                                                                                                        unless you are overfeeding there should be no reason
                                                                                                                        to move rocks. over cleaning is the number 2 killer
                                                                                                                        of fish. number 1 is adding them too soon
                                                                                                                        --- pam phetteplace <pamphetteplace@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        > Being new to fishkeeping I have a question. I have
                                                                                                                        > been using a metal "grabber" ( bought just for this
                                                                                                                        > specific purpose) to pick up rocks. wood etc. when
                                                                                                                        > needing to move them during tank cleaning.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Is this ok? Or is there some negative effect to my
                                                                                                                        > fish if I use this for a minute in the tanks?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > thanks
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Pam
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > There are 25 messages in this issue.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Topics in this digest:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > 1. Powpets! Special Invitation for AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        > group.
                                                                                                                        > From: "zxav"
                                                                                                                        > 2. Re: Temperature and Betta
                                                                                                                        > From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        > 3. Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                        > From: paul helms
                                                                                                                        > 4. Re: Whisper Micro Filter and Betta outlet flow
                                                                                                                        > hose
                                                                                                                        > From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        > 5. Re: Birth Patterns of Platties
                                                                                                                        > From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        > 6. Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        > From: "melly0s"
                                                                                                                        > 7. Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
                                                                                                                        > From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                        > 8. Re: Huge international betta show in Brisbane
                                                                                                                        > From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        > 9. Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        > From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                        > 10. Re: betta tail biting?!?!
                                                                                                                        > From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        > 11. Re: Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        > From: ruth eubanks
                                                                                                                        > 12. Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
                                                                                                                        > From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        > 13. Re: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        > From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        > 14. RE: Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
                                                                                                                        > From: "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                                        > 15. RE: Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        > From: "Steve Szabo"
                                                                                                                        > 16. Re: Feeding
                                                                                                                        > From: Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                        > 17. Re: Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        > From: Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                        > 18. Re: Hi again I need to have something Please
                                                                                                                        > help
                                                                                                                        > From: Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                        > 19. Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        > From: FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                        > 20. Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        > From: "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > 21. Hi, need help in new tank setup.
                                                                                                                        > From: "khamul1of9"
                                                                                                                        > 22. Re: Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        > From: Evita
                                                                                                                        > 23. Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        > From: "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                        > 24. RE: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I
                                                                                                                        > can get!
                                                                                                                        > From: Evita
                                                                                                                        > 25. Re: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        > From: "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Message: 1
                                                                                                                        > Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 12:14:54 -0000
                                                                                                                        > From: "zxav"
                                                                                                                        > Subject: Powpets! Special Invitation for AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        > group.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hi,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > AquaticLife group is invited to join us at
                                                                                                                        > http://www.Powpets.com, a
                                                                                                                        > newly launched pet lovers community, promoting love
                                                                                                                        > and interest
                                                                                                                        > towards animals as well as to educate responsible
                                                                                                                        > pet guardianship
                                                                                                                        > through active community building involvement.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > As a way to say "Thank You" to our specially invited
                                                                                                                        > guest, you will
                                                                                                                        > receive a Free Lifetime Powpets Rewards Account with
                                                                                                                        > 15MB of photo
                                                                                                                        > storage space when you join our Powpets Network!
                                                                                                                        > This offer is
                                                                                                                        > specially made ONLY to AquaticLife group owner.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Learn more about Powpets Rewards Account:
                                                                                                                        > http://rewards.powpets.com
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Some features of Powpets includes:
                                                                                                                        > - Pet discussions forum
                                                                                                                        > - Photo Sharing 2MB Pet photo storage space
                                                                                                                        > - Create Private Photo Album
                                                                                                                        > - Create your Pet club
                                                                                                                        > - Create events and discussions within your own Pet
                                                                                                                        > club.
                                                                                                                        > - Monthly Pet Photo Contest.
                                                                                                                        > - Create public listings
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Please visit Http://www.powpets.com/forum/reg.html
                                                                                                                        > to register your
                                                                                                                        > Powpets account.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > After registration, please send us your Powpets
                                                                                                                        > username and email
                                                                                                                        > address to moderator@... and we will set up
                                                                                                                        > your Rewards
                                                                                                                        > Account within 24hours.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Regards,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Xavier Zou
                                                                                                                        > Powpets! Moderator
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Message: 2
                                                                                                                        > Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 21:43:05 -0000
                                                                                                                        > From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: Temperature and Betta
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Linda" wrote:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > I purchased two 2.5 gallon aquariums for my 2
                                                                                                                        > Betta Oscar and
                                                                                                                        > > Rasco last Friday night. I had Oscar in his new
                                                                                                                        > home with a
                                                                                                                        > > heater and he really loves it.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I think my betta enjoys warmer water too. Where i
                                                                                                                        > live we are comming
                                                                                                                        > into autum/winter and the ambient temperature is
                                                                                                                        > dropping. My betta
                                                                                                                        > started sitting on top of my filter even though
                                                                                                                        > there was little water
                                                                                                                        > above it, his fins actually went above the water
                                                                                                                        > line leaving him half
                                                                                                                        > wet and lying on his side, a scary sight i must add.
                                                                                                                        > Any ways I recently turned up the temperature on my
                                                                                                                        > heater (25.6
                                                                                                                        > degrees C) and now my betta has become really happy
                                                                                                                        > again and swims all
                                                                                                                        > around the tank.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Message: 3
                                                                                                                        > Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 13:51:41 -0800 (PST)
                                                                                                                        > From: paul helms
                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something
                                                                                                                        > Please help
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > put what you have listed in to start. in 2 weeks you
                                                                                                                        > can add hermit crabs and a few snails to begin clean
                                                                                                                        > up. in about 3-4 weeks, you can put in damsels. they
                                                                                                                        > live through about anything, but they do become
                                                                                                                        > territorial and aggrsessive towrds other fish. if
                                                                                                                        > you
                                                                                                                        > want something in there, go with blue, green, or
                                                                                                                        > yellow chromis. they are very mild mannered compared
                                                                                                                        > to their cousin damsels, but just as hardy. damsels
                                                                                                                        > and chromis run 3-4 dollars..
                                                                                                                        > --- Charlene wrote:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > HI Can I put the sand and live sand and live rock
                                                                                                                        > > in my 55 ga. tank.
                                                                                                                        > > When I start to Cycling the water. Or what can I
                                                                                                                        > put
                                                                                                                        > > in it When it is
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        === message truncated ===




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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9951 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Bow or flat....glass or acrylic??
                                                                                                                        no more durable than glass, just less seams. as reef
                                                                                                                        tanks they degrade faster than glass.
                                                                                                                        --- pam phetteplace <pamphetteplace@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        > I was thinking about a bow tank but instead got an
                                                                                                                        > oblong acrylic 55 gallon . Presently it has 5
                                                                                                                        > angels and one pleco (who is murdering my sword
                                                                                                                        > plants.....didnt know they were so fond of them) in
                                                                                                                        > it.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I am quite pleased with the it's shape with
                                                                                                                        > rounded corners. It is my understanding that
                                                                                                                        > acrylic tanks are way more durable than glass. No
                                                                                                                        > problems yet with scratching although I know they do
                                                                                                                        > so easily, but can be buffed out.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Pam
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > There are 25 messages in this issue.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Topics in this digest:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > 1. Powpets! Special Invitation for AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        > group.
                                                                                                                        > From: "zxav"
                                                                                                                        > 2. Re: Temperature and Betta
                                                                                                                        > From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        > 3. Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                        > From: paul helms
                                                                                                                        > 4. Re: Whisper Micro Filter and Betta outlet flow
                                                                                                                        > hose
                                                                                                                        > From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        > 5. Re: Birth Patterns of Platties
                                                                                                                        > From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        > 6. Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        > From: "melly0s"
                                                                                                                        > 7. Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
                                                                                                                        > From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                        > 8. Re: Huge international betta show in Brisbane
                                                                                                                        > From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        > 9. Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        > From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                        > 10. Re: betta tail biting?!?!
                                                                                                                        > From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        > 11. Re: Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        > From: ruth eubanks
                                                                                                                        > 12. Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
                                                                                                                        > From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        > 13. Re: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        > From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        > 14. RE: Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
                                                                                                                        > From: "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                                        > 15. RE: Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        > From: "Steve Szabo"
                                                                                                                        > 16. Re: Feeding
                                                                                                                        > From: Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                        > 17. Re: Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        > From: Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                        > 18. Re: Hi again I need to have something Please
                                                                                                                        > help
                                                                                                                        > From: Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                        > 19. Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        > From: FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                        > 20. Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        > From: "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > 21. Hi, need help in new tank setup.
                                                                                                                        > From: "khamul1of9"
                                                                                                                        > 22. Re: Glass Block Betta Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        > From: Evita
                                                                                                                        > 23. Re: Still need help fry are still dying
                                                                                                                        > From: "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                        > 24. RE: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I
                                                                                                                        > can get!
                                                                                                                        > From: Evita
                                                                                                                        > 25. Re: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        > From: "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Message: 1
                                                                                                                        > Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 12:14:54 -0000
                                                                                                                        > From: "zxav"
                                                                                                                        > Subject: Powpets! Special Invitation for AquaticLife
                                                                                                                        > group.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hi,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > AquaticLife group is invited to join us at
                                                                                                                        > http://www.Powpets.com, a
                                                                                                                        > newly launched pet lovers community, promoting love
                                                                                                                        > and interest
                                                                                                                        > towards animals as well as to educate responsible
                                                                                                                        > pet guardianship
                                                                                                                        > through active community building involvement.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > As a way to say "Thank You" to our specially invited
                                                                                                                        > guest, you will
                                                                                                                        > receive a Free Lifetime Powpets Rewards Account with
                                                                                                                        > 15MB of photo
                                                                                                                        > storage space when you join our Powpets Network!
                                                                                                                        > This offer is
                                                                                                                        > specially made ONLY to AquaticLife group owner.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Learn more about Powpets Rewards Account:
                                                                                                                        > http://rewards.powpets.com
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Some features of Powpets includes:
                                                                                                                        > - Pet discussions forum
                                                                                                                        > - Photo Sharing 2MB Pet photo storage space
                                                                                                                        > - Create Private Photo Album
                                                                                                                        > - Create your Pet club
                                                                                                                        > - Create events and discussions within your own Pet
                                                                                                                        > club.
                                                                                                                        > - Monthly Pet Photo Contest.
                                                                                                                        > - Create public listings
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Please visit Http://www.powpets.com/forum/reg.html
                                                                                                                        > to register your
                                                                                                                        > Powpets account.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > After registration, please send us your Powpets
                                                                                                                        > username and email
                                                                                                                        > address to moderator@... and we will set up
                                                                                                                        > your Rewards
                                                                                                                        > Account within 24hours.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Regards,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Xavier Zou
                                                                                                                        > Powpets! Moderator
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Message: 2
                                                                                                                        > Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 21:43:05 -0000
                                                                                                                        > From: "Nicolas J. Munro"
                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: Temperature and Betta
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Linda" wrote:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > I purchased two 2.5 gallon aquariums for my 2
                                                                                                                        > Betta Oscar and
                                                                                                                        > > Rasco last Friday night. I had Oscar in his new
                                                                                                                        > home with a
                                                                                                                        > > heater and he really loves it.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I think my betta enjoys warmer water too. Where i
                                                                                                                        > live we are comming
                                                                                                                        > into autum/winter and the ambient temperature is
                                                                                                                        > dropping. My betta
                                                                                                                        > started sitting on top of my filter even though
                                                                                                                        > there was little water
                                                                                                                        > above it, his fins actually went above the water
                                                                                                                        > line leaving him half
                                                                                                                        > wet and lying on his side, a scary sight i must add.
                                                                                                                        > Any ways I recently turned up the temperature on my
                                                                                                                        > heater (25.6
                                                                                                                        > degrees C) and now my betta has become really happy
                                                                                                                        > again and swims all
                                                                                                                        > around the tank.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Message: 3
                                                                                                                        > Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 13:51:41 -0800 (PST)
                                                                                                                        > From: paul helms
                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something
                                                                                                                        > Please help
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > put what you have listed in to start. in 2 weeks you
                                                                                                                        > can add hermit crabs and a few snails to begin clean
                                                                                                                        > up. in about 3-4 weeks, you can put in damsels. they
                                                                                                                        > live through about anything, but they do become
                                                                                                                        > territorial and aggrsessive towrds other fish. if
                                                                                                                        > you
                                                                                                                        > want something in there, go with blue, green, or
                                                                                                                        > yellow chromis. they are very mild mannered compared
                                                                                                                        > to their cousin damsels, but just as hardy. damsels
                                                                                                                        > and chromis run 3-4 dollars..
                                                                                                                        > --- Charlene wrote:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > HI Can I put the sand and live sand and live rock
                                                                                                                        > > in my 55 ga. tank.
                                                                                                                        > > When I start to Cycling the water. Or what can I
                                                                                                                        > put
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        === message truncated ===




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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9952 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        Imagine what people would say if this guy was doing something really bad, like telling people that these are prefect for housing bettas fights! :) 
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                        8/10 of a gallon is far more water than 90% of bettas
                                                                                                                        ever get! they spend several weeks ina  bag packed
                                                                                                                        with pure o2 and 1/2-1oz of water during shipping.
                                                                                                                        8/10 of a gallon should be paradise for them.
                                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9953 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        Hitting the gravel?  You're really trying to find something wrong hard. :)  How is that going to harm the fish to just drop it into the water?  Again, this is done to fish all the time and nothing happens to them.  It isn't like dropping a person on the ground, more like dropping a feather on the ground.  The water acts as as a brake, so by the time it hits the gravel, it is just a soft landing.  And he was in a hurry showing how it is done, so the average water change will go much more smoothly because the person will not be trying to get it done on video.  I'm not going to recommend it either, but I certainly won't discourage it.  A betta would ideally be kept in a 10,000 gallon heated pond with plants and a slow current, but how many people keep their bettas like that?
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9954 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        I think the part that looked bad wasn't the tank, it was dropping the
                                                                                                                        fish through a little hole in the funnel.


                                                                                                                        > At first it looked bad, mostly because the size of it was hard
                                                                                                                        to judge.
                                                                                                                        > I was thinking 1 quart. Then I watched the video and saw what it
                                                                                                                        was. It
                                                                                                                        > is a great idea. Really, I don't see the problem, and I'm normally
                                                                                                                        on the
                                                                                                                        > side of giving bettas more room. As person who has bred bettas, I
                                                                                                                        can say
                                                                                                                        > that they can live as happily in a tall but thin environment as they
                                                                                                                        can a
                                                                                                                        > wide but shallow tank. This is wide, narrow, and tall, all in one
                                                                                                                        tank.
                                                                                                                        > You have all these 1 pint hex bowls with no lid or heat, and people are
                                                                                                                        > complaining about this? I really do think people should pick their
                                                                                                                        battles
                                                                                                                        > more carefully. It looks to be at least a 3 quarts. His care tips were
                                                                                                                        > almost perfect in my opinion (compared to those care kits that say don't
                                                                                                                        > worry about water changes) Notice that it was not a 100% change
                                                                                                                        because a
                                                                                                                        > lot of the water was poured back in with the betta. This is very
                                                                                                                        similar to
                                                                                                                        > my maintenance on my fry jars and bowls (and probably the same as
                                                                                                                        90% of the
                                                                                                                        > other betta breeders), only I don't remove the bettas when I remove the
                                                                                                                        > water. Large water changes (75% in this case) simply do not cause
                                                                                                                        stress.
                                                                                                                        > That is a very old myth that goes back to the days of no water changes.
                                                                                                                        > The main problem with small bowls is that unless they are kept
                                                                                                                        in a warm
                                                                                                                        > place, they cool down quickly. This thing looks thick enough to
                                                                                                                        hold in a
                                                                                                                        > lot of heat at night when the light is off. That is another thing, this
                                                                                                                        > thing has a light! If it wasn't for the extremely high price (this
                                                                                                                        thing
                                                                                                                        > should cost no more than $7 in my opinion, but it might cost him
                                                                                                                        more than
                                                                                                                        > that to make it because it is probably not mass produced) I would
                                                                                                                        consider
                                                                                                                        > this a great alternative to my gallon jars, mainly because of the
                                                                                                                        light.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9955 From: bettamuse Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        At present My partner and I have Just over 1000 adult bettas we are
                                                                                                                        looking after. They receive a 100% water change every 2nd day. Our
                                                                                                                        water is mixed and left sit to stabilise so the new water is the
                                                                                                                        same quality and temp as the old water, just without the nasties.
                                                                                                                        This reduces the stress caused by 100% changes. Our fish are kept in
                                                                                                                        2.5L containers except when they are being groomed for show or
                                                                                                                        breeding and then they are in a minimum of 9L.
                                                                                                                        I have seen bettas imported were the bags have broken during
                                                                                                                        transport and have left them without water just in a damp bag for up
                                                                                                                        to 24hrs. They were put into a tank and been up and feeding within
                                                                                                                        30mins with no fin damage or apparent ill effects.

                                                                                                                        A Bettas splendans average life span is 2-3 years so if your friend
                                                                                                                        has a 3 year old betta they are doing somthing right.

                                                                                                                        One of our Betta-Australis club members has done tests and found
                                                                                                                        that keeping a layer of gravel in the bottom of the betta bowl
                                                                                                                        reduced the nitrite levels up by more than half compared to one
                                                                                                                        without gravel.

                                                                                                                        BM


                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                        <patrickmn1@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > Hitting the gravel? You're really trying to find something wrong
                                                                                                                        hard. :)
                                                                                                                        > How is that going to harm the fish to just drop it into the
                                                                                                                        water? Again,
                                                                                                                        > this is done to fish all the time and nothing happens to them. It
                                                                                                                        isn't
                                                                                                                        > like dropping a person on the ground, more like dropping a feather
                                                                                                                        on the
                                                                                                                        > ground. The water acts as as a brake, so by the time it hits the
                                                                                                                        gravel, it
                                                                                                                        > is just a soft landing. And he was in a hurry showing how it is
                                                                                                                        done, so
                                                                                                                        > the average water change will go much more smoothly because the
                                                                                                                        person will
                                                                                                                        > not be trying to get it done on video. I'm not going to recommend
                                                                                                                        it either
                                                                                                                        > but I certainly won't discourage it. A betta would ideally be
                                                                                                                        kept in a 10
                                                                                                                        > 000 gallon heated pond with plants and a slow current, but how
                                                                                                                        many people
                                                                                                                        > keep their bettas like that?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9956 From: Kyle Osterholt Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: betta block
                                                                                                                        I know that some betta splendens do fine in community tanks but overall I believe most are not suited (at least the 4 I've owned through the years weren't).  As for stopping the betta splendens trade, I think I came off wrong in my story.  I don't think they should be totally stopped, I just think there's a better fish to be marketed but then again these are being sold to the "lazy aquariast" who just want a jug on the counter and not mess with a big aquarium so maybe I'm just smoking pipe dreams here.  Betta Imbelis and Mahachai are both colorful bettas but can be kept in groups and do well in community tanks as long as they're given room.  their ownly "drawback" is the lack of the typical splendens finnage but I'm sure the breeders can work their magic and take care of that anyway.  And to reply to Patrick, did you not watch this video?  There was no "braking of the water", he slammed into the gravel with the force of a person falling off a house headfirst.  Care to demonstrate how you can take a dive off your house headfirst and jump back up and show off to the camera?  People who are buying these and watching the video are hardly experienced, they're gonna follow the instructions like the moron knows what he's doing and "plop" there goes the betta smack into the gravel, again, and again as many water changes as he survives.  Whether he dies from the impact, ich from the stress, radical temperature changes (which were never addressed in the video) or chlorine poisoning, he'll die and fairly soon.  I don't have a problem with the cube, it's the video and the small hole where the problem lies.  Kyle


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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9957 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: glass block betta aquarium
                                                                                                                        why do you think betta splendens are 'nasty?'
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        > As long as the nasty splendens


                                                                                                                        Kyle Osterholt <snakeskinnerkyle@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        He has sold 4 on ebay and has one presently listed.  I agree with the stressful methods shown in the video.  I "asked seller a question" and mentioned how stressful his methods were at adding the fish and water as well as how his "water changes" were causing more stress than it was worth.  I tried giving him a short school in the nitrogen cycle and and begged him to at least update his cleaning methods and tell the customer to use a turkey baster to try and change about 30% of the water twice a week.  I ran out of letters (limit on the ebay form) to mention chlorine eliminator.  As for the size, that's a very opinionated subject as far as I'm concerned.  It doesn't look big enough, I'll give you that, but unfortunately every betta I've ever kept never really wanted to move around anyways.  I've never kept them in anything smaller than a 1 gallon tank with UGF but the same fish in a 55 gallon stayed put until I fed them or if he was hunting guppies to murder at night.  I would want to give him some live plants at the least but as long as the water is kept clean, he should be fine.  as pointed out, very few betta's even see that much room if they live long enough to even leave the store.  I personally would like to see Betta splendens discontinued in the fish trade and be replaced with something more community friendly like imbelis or mahachai (can't ever remember the exact spelling of that name).  Then maybe the tiny tanks will disappear along with them.  As long as the nasty splendens is sold, the bowls and tiny tanks will still be dispersed as well.  best we can do is try to educate people as to how to make their environment the best it can be.  I have a friend with a 1-1.5 gallon tank with a betta splendens that somehow has survived 3 years with regular 100% teardown and cleanings.  I recently schooled them on the nitrogen cycle and they've started doing partial changes weekly.  Kyle


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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9958 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Bow vs. Flat front tanks
                                                                                                                        hm, i haven't had that problem with my mini bow.

                                                                                                                        paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        not true
                                                                                                                        --- Nigel Chetcuti <nigelchetcuti@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > Flat front from me! with a bow you will have see
                                                                                                                        > fish
                                                                                                                        > LONGGGGG or rounder or something like that due to
                                                                                                                        > its
                                                                                                                        > shape!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nigel
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hi All,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I'm on the verge of getting my first tank. I want to
                                                                                                                        > get folk's
                                                                                                                        > opinion of bow tanks vs. flat front tanks. Any
                                                                                                                        > comments? Good or Bad.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Thanks
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Eric
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9959 From: The Doctor Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: glass block betta aquarium
                                                                                                                        I picked-up a Betta a few weeks ago, a pretty blue, somewhere between a
                                                                                                                        royal & cobalt blue, and he was very interested that I took interest in him
                                                                                                                        in the store...

                                                                                                                        Well, got him home to a 20 gal. established community tank (kept one in the
                                                                                                                        same tank years ago, until a CAE attacked him), and he just loves it!

                                                                                                                        This guy's a very active swimmer, especially if someone's paying him
                                                                                                                        attention!

                                                                                                                        The other I had "inherited" was a red w/touches of blue mix (both long
                                                                                                                        crowntails, BTW) that also loved to explore his environment. -It was more
                                                                                                                        of a "strutter", but neither has stayed put much unless the lighting is dim
                                                                                                                        in the room and off in the tank.

                                                                                                                        Point is, all animals have different character traits/personalities, no
                                                                                                                        matter how similar.


                                                                                                                        -However, I do agree with the glass block "tank" being cruel for any sort of
                                                                                                                        fish. -I don't think there's enough gas exchange between the water and the
                                                                                                                        air, either, with the lack of surface area actually exposed.


                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        From: "Kyle Osterholt" <snakeskinnerkyle@...>
                                                                                                                        To: "aquatic life" <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 5:41 PM
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] re: glass block betta aquarium


                                                                                                                        >every betta I've ever kept never really wanted to move around anyways.
                                                                                                                        >I've never kept them in anything smaller than a 1
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9960 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: glass block betta aquarium
                                                                                                                            I don't think he sealed up the hole.  Bettas breath air (whether or not they take in O2 from their gills is not known to the internet), so the fish would only have to swim to the hole.  Besides, that is why he left the air bubble at the top. 
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                        -However, I do agree with the glass block "tank" being cruel for any sort of fish. 
                                                                                                                        -I don't think there's enough gas exchange between the water and the air, either, with the lack of surface area actually exposed.
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9961 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: betta block
                                                                                                                        WARNING (Harry will appreciate this warning): The following message is very long-winded.  I appologize in advance to digesters and those who don't care what I have to say.  Now back to the message...
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                            Ok, I'll go science on this one.  It is impossible for a fish in free fall in the air (not water) to hit the gravel with the force of a human jumping from a roof.  The reason is that the fish will quickly reach terminal velocity.  After that point it will not be able to hit with any more force than it has at that point.  A human, on the other hand, is a lot bigger, and they would have a lot more mass (weight) hitting the ground.  So drop a fish from a roof and it might live, drop a human and they will have broken bones.  But this is a fish being dropped in water, not air.  The water is much denser than air, which means terminal velocity is going to be a lot slower than it would be in the air.  So it is impossible under normal laws of physics for a fish to hit gravel with the force of a human hitting the ground.  Maybe if you go by scale it would be possible, but technically it is not.
                                                                                                                            If you think that was bad, get in a bag of water and take a trip on a jet from FL to Dallas, and then ride in a truck over some bumpy interstate highways to San Antonio.  That will be a long, bumpy ride, a lot worse than one impact with some gravel once every now and then.
                                                                                                                            Did you watch the video?  This guy is using a jug of spring water.  They don't chlorinate spring water to my knowledge.  It would kind of defeat the purpose.  Since the spring water will be at room temperature (unless the person for some reason kept it in a refrigerator), and the tank will be just a little warmer than that, there will be no temperature shock.
                                                                                                                            What is going on is you guys have been radicalized by the bad products out there like betta vases and pint bowls, so you automatically go after anything that looks suspicious.  His directions only had one mistake, and that was he changed the water on week 3.  I would have said on day 3, although I have let a gallon jar go for a week with no water change.  Everything else he did was acceptable betta maintenance.  He didn't mention feeding, so I guess you think people are going to think they don't have to feed the betta?  Morons are morons.  They will do whatever they want, video or not.  Anybody that buys this thing will either do some research or plop it in and let it die.  The ones that plop it in, would have probably plopped it into a pint bowl or vase or sausage grinder or whatever they have around. 
                                                                                                                            It is like ending the trade of b splendens to prevent their abuse.  Sure if there are none they won't be abused, but there won't be any to be treated well either.  I know you said you didn't really mean end all of them, but still.  Just because there are a few idiots out there that misuse their glass block does not mean there aren't a lot more who would happily use it properly.  Of course, I don't think this guy is mass producing them.  If he was, and the were around $5-7, I think it would sell like hot cakes, and not just to lazy people.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9962 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: betta block
                                                                                                                        bettas are freaking lazy fish. there is no damn way
                                                                                                                        that the betta was hurt after falling through water.
                                                                                                                        just because he did not swim when he hit, does not
                                                                                                                        mean he was hurt. had he swam he would have not hit.
                                                                                                                        falling a couple inches into water is nothing. just
                                                                                                                        like a person falling 3 feet into a pool ould not hurt
                                                                                                                        them. sheesh people!
                                                                                                                        --- Kyle Osterholt <snakeskinnerkyle@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > I know that some betta splendens do fine in
                                                                                                                        > community tanks but overall I believe most are not
                                                                                                                        > suited (at least the 4 I've owned through the years
                                                                                                                        > weren't). As for stopping the betta splendens
                                                                                                                        > trade, I think I came off wrong in my story. I
                                                                                                                        > don't think they should be totally stopped, I just
                                                                                                                        > think there's a better fish to be marketed but then
                                                                                                                        > again these are being sold to the "lazy aquariast"
                                                                                                                        > who just want a jug on the counter and not mess with
                                                                                                                        > a big aquarium so maybe I'm just smoking pipe dreams
                                                                                                                        > here. Betta Imbelis and Mahachai are both colorful
                                                                                                                        > bettas but can be kept in groups and do well in
                                                                                                                        > community tanks as long as they're given room.
                                                                                                                        > their ownly "drawback" is the lack of the typical
                                                                                                                        > splendens finnage but I'm sure the breeders can work
                                                                                                                        > their magic and take care of that anyway. And to
                                                                                                                        > reply to Patrick, did you not watch this video?
                                                                                                                        > There was no "braking of the water", he slammed into
                                                                                                                        > the gravel with the force of a person falling off a
                                                                                                                        > house headfirst. Care to demonstrate how
                                                                                                                        > you can take a dive off your house headfirst and
                                                                                                                        > jump back up and show off to the camera? People who
                                                                                                                        > are buying these and watching the video are hardly
                                                                                                                        > experienced, they're gonna follow the instructions
                                                                                                                        > like the moron knows what he's doing and "plop"
                                                                                                                        > there goes the betta smack into the gravel, again,
                                                                                                                        > and again as many water changes as he survives.
                                                                                                                        > Whether he dies from the impact, ich from the
                                                                                                                        > stress, radical temperature changes (which were
                                                                                                                        > never addressed in the video) or chlorine poisoning,
                                                                                                                        > he'll die and fairly soon. I don't have a problem
                                                                                                                        > with the cube, it's the video and the small hole
                                                                                                                        > where the problem lies. Kyle
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9963 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        lmao off that would be funny as hell. i somehow did
                                                                                                                        not get the post to this video.... or tank pic
                                                                                                                        --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                        <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > Imagine what people would say if this guy was doing
                                                                                                                        > something really bad,
                                                                                                                        > like telling people that these are prefect for
                                                                                                                        > housing bettas fights! :)
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                        > 8/10 of a gallon is far more water than 90% of
                                                                                                                        > bettas
                                                                                                                        > ever get! they spend several weeks ina bag packed
                                                                                                                        > with pure o2 and 1/2-1oz of water during shipping.
                                                                                                                        > 8/10 of a gallon should be paradise for them.



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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9964 From: paul helms Date: 4/3/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: aaron
                                                                                                                        hey aaron,
                                                                                                                        how are those golden ottos working?



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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9965 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory - Update

                                                                                                                        Guys,

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        4 days since I turned off my CO2 on the tank and increased surface agitation. Plants are still pearling and growing at a fast pace (a bit slower then with CO2 but still at par) but the growth now looks more natural and condensed. The distance between leaf nodes has considerably reduced but the rate of throwing a new leaf is still the same. Strange that they are still pearling with no pressurized CO2 and also I am having a bit of a problem now with green spot algae and some dust algae. Guess, the CO2 kept them under control but now one day I used excel and the next day I got no extra algae. Ottos are not really able to keep up so might have to get them more.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        I must say that the tank looks much more natural then what it did 4 days ago. Hygrophylla is more condensed, cabomba and limnophilla are no longer leggy type (/2” distance between leaf nodes), Difformis is starting to grow vertically, Hydrocotyle is forming a nice ground cover and only a couple of stalks reaching the surface and a couple of emerged as well. Echinodorous ozelot has sent out a flower stem J so expecting lots of ozelots now. Myriophyllum was for some reason battered by my angels a week ago but now the new growth looks a lot greener and bigger. Bacopa is still suffering as it always does for me L. Ludwigia has been more or less the same.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        If I had RO water, maybe the algae could have been controlled but overall I am very happy with the outcome in 4 days. Lets watch it for another few weeks and see J

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Will keep posted.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                        From: Nimish Mathur [mailto: nimmat4@... ]
                                                                                                                        Sent: 31 March 2005 20:51
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Guys,

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        I have been thinking about a theory and need some help validating it:

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        We all know that CO2 is well soluble in water. We try to push CO2 in the water for the plants to be able to take. Now the plants do not really care how much ppm CO2 we push in as long as they have it available to them all the time? Rite?

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Atmosphere has 0.3% CO2 so Ideally if we have a waterfall, the amount of CO2 dissolved in the water will also be 0.3% of all dissolved gasses? Osmotic pressure or something similar to maintain same concentration in both mediums? Does this defy any science? Since we can have a bit of CO2 in the water and have the capability to replenish this small amount, is this quantity enough for plants or not? What happens in streams in rivers? I find it difficult to digest the idea of rotting leaves and bacterial processes in the soil creating enough CO2 that plants need, rather, atmospheric dissolved CO2 as the water flows sounds more reasonable.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        So if all of the above is true, is it possible that we could have a lush planted medium – high light tank with a couple of spraybars that keep replenishing the 0.3% CO2 back in the water so the plants never really starve of the CO2? I am sure if atmospheric CO2 is dissolved in the water at small quantities, the plants will really never starve.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Feedback appreciated J

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         



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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9966 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        Where is the video?

                                                                                                                        ________________________________________
                                                                                                                        From: Patrick, American Fish Guy [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: 04 April 2005 03:33
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad

                                                                                                                        Hitting the gravel?  You're really trying to find something wrong hard. :) 
                                                                                                                        How is that going to harm the fish to just drop it into the water?  Again,
                                                                                                                        this is done to fish all the time and nothing happens to them.  It isn't
                                                                                                                        like dropping a person on the ground, more like dropping a feather on the
                                                                                                                        ground.  The water acts as as a brake, so by the time it hits the gravel, it
                                                                                                                        is just a soft landing.  And he was in a hurry showing how it is done, so
                                                                                                                        the average water change will go much more smoothly because the person will
                                                                                                                        not be trying to get it done on video.  I'm not going to recommend it
                                                                                                                        either, but I certainly won't discourage it.  A betta would ideally be kept
                                                                                                                        in a 10,000 gallon heated pond with plants and a slow current, but how many
                                                                                                                        people keep their bettas like that?
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.






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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9967 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: CO2 ?
                                                                                                                        Nigel,

                                                                                                                        I'm not sure why you are thinking there is to much CO2. From the start you have said my settings are too high, yet I've had no loss of fish. My PH is in the acceptable ranges of about 7.2-7.6, etc. But anyway..to satisfy my curiosity about your statements, and to be on the cautious side, I have put my CO2 down to slightly less than 30 bubbles per minute. My PH has skyrocketed back up to 8.2, which is the normal rate of our PH here in our water supply. Also, still, even now, I get the bubbles on the plants late in the day, as it starts out putting oxygen.

                                                                                                                        Whenever you go web searching to find info on CO2, you can get a whole gamut of what is good and what is bad for the aquarium. You say less than one bubble per second, the Dr ForesterSmith site says around 1-2 bubbles per minute.

                                                                                                                        http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?dept_id=0&aid=528

                                                                                                                        Can you please explain why you are so dead set against 1-2 bubbles for minute? What are you using to determine this? What should I be watching for to tell me that a rate is to high or two low. Everything is falling within the acceptable ranges, that I know to check.

                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                        Alan
                                                                                                                        --
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                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        From: Nigel Chetcuti [mailto:nigelchetcuti@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 8:15 AM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 ?



                                                                                                                        YOU HAVE TOO MUCH CO2 DISSOLVED

                                                                                                                        nigel

                                                                                                                        --- Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 <alan.zelhart@...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:

                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                        One other short comment. I'm noticing in the last 3
                                                                                                                        or 4 days, lots more bubbles of <oxygen?> on the
                                                                                                                        plants in the aquarium. Especially in the afternoon.

                                                                                                                        --
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                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30
                                                                                                                        [mailto:alan.zelhart@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 5:26 AM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 ?



                                                                                                                        I have a diffuser on mine, which dissolves the CO2
                                                                                                                        into smaller bits of air, and places them in the
                                                                                                                        water. That's probably a horrible scientific
                                                                                                                        explanation, but in answer to your question, on the
                                                                                                                        output tube, I see no bubbles coming out. My setup is
                                                                                                                        similar to the one on Foster and Smith, the only thing
                                                                                                                        I don't have is the fancy PH machine they have that
                                                                                                                        turns off the CO2 when the PH drops below a certain
                                                                                                                        level. I did all my adjustments on the weekend so I
                                                                                                                        could watch and make sure my PH didn't drop below that
                                                                                                                        certain level.

                                                                                                                        My understanding of the process is. Aquarium plants
                                                                                                                        use CO2 during the day for growth, and at night they
                                                                                                                        release oxygen. It's reported by some that there is
                                                                                                                        not enough CO2 in your aquarium water to really
                                                                                                                        satisfy most aquarium plants. Thus the reason for
                                                                                                                        adding more CO2 to the tank. Listen, I never would
                                                                                                                        have believed it, till I tried it. The difference in
                                                                                                                        one week is quite incredible. My passion is
                                                                                                                        gardening, but having an aquarium has always been a
                                                                                                                        hobby too, except I did take a break for several years
                                                                                                                        and am just getting back into it. When I read some of
                                                                                                                        the articles I read on adding CO2 to your tank, I
                                                                                                                        found it intriguing. Just as in gardening I love to
                                                                                                                        experiment with my plants and try new things, so with
                                                                                                                        my aquarium plants. I wanted to try it. So far so good....hopefully next week I won't kill them all. I have pictures from when I first set up the new plants, which haven't done anything since I first put them in there, except get yellowish green. Since I've!
                                                                                                                        added the CO2, the seem to be getting their vim and
                                                                                                                        vigor back. They are looking a darker, richer green,
                                                                                                                        and as I mentioned in a previous post, One particular
                                                                                                                        plant, of which I have 3 in the tank, I swear, I think
                                                                                                                        it's growing 1/4" to 1/2" a day. It's probably not
                                                                                                                        really growing that fast, time just seems to go by to
                                                                                                                        fast, but it sure seems like it.

                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                        Alan
                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                        http://www.GardenersCorner.com
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                                                                                                                        ***** I'd like to, but last time I went I never came
                                                                                                                        back..


                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        From: Nan [mailto:ntalb00@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:38 PM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 ?




                                                                                                                        Ok, I get somewhat why the CO2 is being added, I get
                                                                                                                        that it is
                                                                                                                        suppossed to (and probably does) improve your tank
                                                                                                                        plants, but now my
                                                                                                                        big question is, how does it work? I mean how does
                                                                                                                        the CO2 cannister
                                                                                                                        work? I was looking on Foster and Smith at the one
                                                                                                                        they have where
                                                                                                                        fermentation is neccessary to make it work, but what
                                                                                                                        exactly does it
                                                                                                                        do? Does it shoot CO2 into your water for your
                                                                                                                        plants? Is there a
                                                                                                                        tube like an airhose that you run down into the gravel
                                                                                                                        for the plants?
                                                                                                                        I know it is probably a stupid question, but so far I
                                                                                                                        have found no
                                                                                                                        answers on the web.

                                                                                                                        Thanks for your help!

                                                                                                                        ~nan and crew~






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                                                                                                                        replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        .
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                                                                                                                        Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9968 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: CO2 ?
                                                                                                                        Oh, and I also have watched the fish gills to see if they are showing any difficulty in breathing. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong. They seem very healthy, the are not repeatedly going to the surface to get oxygen. I guess, what I'm trying to say is. I don't doubt what your saying necessarily, I just would like to hear why you feel the way you feel. What are your resources for jumping to the conclusions you are? I'm just wanting to understand the system completely.

                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                        Alan
                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                        http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                        -----
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                                                                                                                        ***** If the shoe fits, put it in your mouth.


                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 [mailto:alan.zelhart@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 7:01 AM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 ?



                                                                                                                        Nigel,

                                                                                                                        I'm not sure why you are thinking there is to much CO2. From the start you have said my settings are too high, yet I've had no loss of fish. My PH is in the acceptable ranges of about 7.2-7.6, etc. But anyway..to satisfy my curiosity about your statements, and to be on the cautious side, I have put my CO2 down to slightly less than 30 bubbles per minute. My PH has skyrocketed back up to 8.2, which is the normal rate of our PH here in our water supply. Also, still, even now, I get the bubbles on the plants late in the day, as it starts out putting oxygen.

                                                                                                                        Whenever you go web searching to find info on CO2, you can get a whole gamut of what is good and what is bad for the aquarium. You say less than one bubble per second, the Dr ForesterSmith site says around 1-2 bubbles per minute.

                                                                                                                        http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?dept_id=0&aid=528

                                                                                                                        Can you please explain why you are so dead set against 1-2 bubbles for minute? What are you using to determine this? What should I be watching for to tell me that a rate is to high or two low. Everything is falling within the acceptable ranges, that I know to check.

                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                        Alan
                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                        http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                        -----
                                                                                                                        *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                                                                        *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
                                                                                                                        *** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening list called "OutGardening".
                                                                                                                        *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your address.
                                                                                                                        *** Check them out at:

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                                                                                                                        ***** Life can be great if you live it to the fullest!


                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        From: Nigel Chetcuti [mailto:nigelchetcuti@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 8:15 AM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 ?



                                                                                                                        YOU HAVE TOO MUCH CO2 DISSOLVED

                                                                                                                        nigel

                                                                                                                        --- Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 <alan.zelhart@...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:

                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                        One other short comment. I'm noticing in the last 3
                                                                                                                        or 4 days, lots more bubbles of <oxygen?> on the
                                                                                                                        plants in the aquarium. Especially in the afternoon.

                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                        Alan
                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                        http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                        -----
                                                                                                                        *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                                                                        *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
                                                                                                                        *** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening
                                                                                                                        list called "OutGardening".
                                                                                                                        *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can
                                                                                                                        find your address.
                                                                                                                        *** Check them out at:

                                                                                                                        http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/listinfo/

                                                                                                                        ***** I'd like to, but last time I went I never came
                                                                                                                        back..


                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30
                                                                                                                        [mailto:alan.zelhart@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 5:26 AM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 ?



                                                                                                                        I have a diffuser on mine, which dissolves the CO2
                                                                                                                        into smaller bits of air, and places them in the
                                                                                                                        water. That's probably a horrible scientific
                                                                                                                        explanation, but in answer to your question, on the
                                                                                                                        output tube, I see no bubbles coming out. My setup is
                                                                                                                        similar to the one on Foster and Smith, the only thing
                                                                                                                        I don't have is the fancy PH machine they have that
                                                                                                                        turns off the CO2 when the PH drops below a certain
                                                                                                                        level. I did all my adjustments on the weekend so I
                                                                                                                        could watch and make sure my PH didn't drop below that
                                                                                                                        certain level.

                                                                                                                        My understanding of the process is. Aquarium plants
                                                                                                                        use CO2 during the day for growth, and at night they
                                                                                                                        release oxygen. It's reported by some that there is
                                                                                                                        not enough CO2 in your aquarium water to really
                                                                                                                        satisfy most aquarium plants. Thus the reason for
                                                                                                                        adding more CO2 to the tank. Listen, I never would
                                                                                                                        have believed it, till I tried it. The difference in
                                                                                                                        one week is quite incredible. My passion is
                                                                                                                        gardening, but having an aquarium has always been a
                                                                                                                        hobby too, except I did take a break for several years
                                                                                                                        and am just getting back into it. When I read some of
                                                                                                                        the articles I read on adding CO2 to your tank, I
                                                                                                                        found it intriguing. Just as in gardening I love to
                                                                                                                        experiment with my plants and try new things, so with
                                                                                                                        my aquarium plants. I wanted to try it. So far so good....hopefully next week I won't kill them all. I have pictures from when I first set up the new plants, which haven't done anything since I first put them in there, except get yellowish green. Since I've!
                                                                                                                        added the CO2, the seem to be getting their vim and
                                                                                                                        vigor back. They are looking a darker, richer green,
                                                                                                                        and as I mentioned in a previous post, One particular
                                                                                                                        plant, of which I have 3 in the tank, I swear, I think
                                                                                                                        it's growing 1/4" to 1/2" a day. It's probably not
                                                                                                                        really growing that fast, time just seems to go by to
                                                                                                                        fast, but it sure seems like it.

                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                        Alan
                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                        Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                        http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                        -----
                                                                                                                        *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                                                                        *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
                                                                                                                        *** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening
                                                                                                                        list called "OutGardening".
                                                                                                                        *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can
                                                                                                                        find your address.
                                                                                                                        *** Check them out at:

                                                                                                                        http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/listinfo/

                                                                                                                        ***** I'd like to, but last time I went I never came
                                                                                                                        back..


                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        From: Nan [mailto:ntalb00@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:38 PM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 ?




                                                                                                                        Ok, I get somewhat why the CO2 is being added, I get
                                                                                                                        that it is
                                                                                                                        suppossed to (and probably does) improve your tank
                                                                                                                        plants, but now my
                                                                                                                        big question is, how does it work? I mean how does
                                                                                                                        the CO2 cannister
                                                                                                                        work? I was looking on Foster and Smith at the one
                                                                                                                        they have where
                                                                                                                        fermentation is neccessary to make it work, but what
                                                                                                                        exactly does it
                                                                                                                        do? Does it shoot CO2 into your water for your
                                                                                                                        plants? Is there a
                                                                                                                        tube like an airhose that you run down into the gravel
                                                                                                                        for the plants?
                                                                                                                        I know it is probably a stupid question, but so far I
                                                                                                                        have found no
                                                                                                                        answers on the web.

                                                                                                                        Thanks for your help!

                                                                                                                        ~nan and crew~






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                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when
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                                                                                                                        .
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                                                                                                                        -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                        Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9969 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Betta Care
                                                                                                                        Now that we've had so much discussion regarding the video for the betta tank, I have questions regarding the care of a male betta.  My son has a 1.66 gallon AquaTank Plus (hooded light, air pump, undergravel filter system in an acrylic tank).  He wants a male betta and a African dwarf frog.  I have spring water for the tank.  What else do we need to do?  How often should the water be changed?  How much should be changed?
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Thanks for your help.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Angela in Richmond, VA
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9970 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Birth Patterns of Platties
                                                                                                                        I have a question on platties for anyone ...after reading your posts.  I was told by a lady I know after her females gave birth they died.  She emplied this was normal.  She said it happened every time any femal she had gave birth.  I was thinking it is not normal  but stress related.  I have never kept them so I  thought I would post the question here.  I have been considering platties myself and want to learn more about them.  I also have another new-bee question on them.  I know they come in several colors and types as well as the Mollies do.  Can one put several different types and colors together?  Would they mate and cause other variations.Or  should one stick to same color fish when choosing a breed in one tank.  What I mean is, could you keep several colors of that fish, like salt and pepper and gold together?  Evita   
                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                        "Nicolas J. Munro" <nedarg@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        Well from what I under stand they are similar to guppies.

                                                                                                                        I brought a breading trap to put inside my bigger tank.  When I put
                                                                                                                        two females in it together they only produced a couple of babies I
                                                                                                                        think each were scared the other would eat all there off spring. So
                                                                                                                        I removed one of the mums and hay presto the other dumped the whole
                                                                                                                        lot in about half an hour then I returned that mum and put the other
                                                                                                                        mum in but she wouldn't drop her babies till I did a 25% water
                                                                                                                        change.

                                                                                                                        The other mum who was still in the tank still did drop here babies
                                                                                                                        well actually I  thought i saw her drop on but as soon as she did
                                                                                                                        another daddy Guppies gobbled it up.

                                                                                                                        My mummy guppies that I leave in the tank never seam to give birth
                                                                                                                        or if they do it�fs as you say one baby at a time.


                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "karima_allison" <karima@i...>
                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I have a pregnant Platty in my tank, and last night I saw (just by
                                                                                                                        > chance) a tiny baby swimming towards the bottom of the tank
                                                                                                                        > but the mother is still pregnant - looks like she is going to
                                                                                                                        > burst :-)
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > My question is, what is the birthing patterns of Platties?  Can
                                                                                                                        > they drop one and then a few days later drop another, etc.?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I also have two other babies that must have been born from this
                                                                                                                        > Platty, (because of the color - exactly like her and she is the
                                                                                                                        > only female of her type in the tank).  These two babies are not
                                                                                                                        > the same size, but must be from different birthing times.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Sorry for my lack of the proper terms for these sorts of things,
                                                                                                                        > but I'm new at this.  Some of my other Platties had babies last
                                                                                                                        > month and I count about 30 in all.  They are three different
                                                                                                                        > colors and about 5 different sizes . . . . 
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > ~Karima





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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9971 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: FANTASTIC AQUARIUM
                                                                                                                        Last night on Home and Garden TV, on "Pet Palaces", there was a 300 gallon,
                                                                                                                        $ 35,000 SW aquarium.  Everything that can be is automatic - lights, etc.
                                                                                                                        The owners are pay $ 250 per month for maintenance.
                                                                                                                        If you get the chance - catch the show.
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9972 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Steve,  I know your intentions were good it just hit me how you said it.  I had 5 feeder gold fish and thought we were saving them from being eaten.  I guess in a way they lived longer than they would have if they had been bought as food.  I am at a lost though as far as fish why if they are so hard to keep why to pet shop call them the easy fish and push them on parents with small kids for their first set-up and say they are the hardiest you can get.  Then set us up for disappointment when they die like that.  I was told the smaller the tank the slower the growth.  When I was a kid my grandmother had gold-fish in a small cement type outdoor pond as well as a tank inside of about 20 gals.  She never had any problems.  I guess that was about 35 years ago.  Her outside pond was in the garden and my fondest memories of visiting her on the weekends was feeding them.  She usually just gave a a piece of bread and said go feed the fish.  As far as the Betta comment it was not based on your post but tons of stuff I had been reading in various other groups.  I wonder about the Betta's too.  I wonder why they tend to be kept in so little space and are said to be happy?  Of course I guess one should saw comfortable and not stress instead of happy.  How can we know that?  Who knows they might be thinking they are comfortable but boy they wish they had a bigger place.  Heck I live in a small house and I would jump if I could have a bigger house....Sorry if I was a bit testy.  I am really stress out myself right now and my job is such that I never get two days off in a row and work evening and get home late.  Sometimes like this week I work 7 days in a row and then have one day off.  This is my day thank goodness.  I also have 4 kids and a pretty critical type husband.  I tend to get stressed.  I guess that is why I am so into my pets as well as this whole tank and fish thing.  Even though I don't have any fish yet I have loved sitting on the couch looking at the new tank.  I really love the set-up.  Every night I fall asleep with a book in my hand.  I am studying all I can.  I  am having a really hard time deciding between types, colors and various sizes as well as the ph and what not.  But I am in no hurry either.  I have no idea what ones I will decide on even know only a vague idea.  I really appreciate reading all the posts about other people and what they are doing too. 
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        I turned down my tanks water heaters last night.  I am trying to get them to level out between 73-75.  Is that OK?  Right now they are 76-78.  My room temp has been really varied here lately.  In the mornings it it cold and during the day it can be hot for spring. 
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Also about the ammonia thing.  I didn't know I was told to add anything.  I only just added treated tap water.  No ammonia, no fish to cycle and no other additives.  Should I get a small cup of a friends tank to add to both my tanks to get the ammonia up?  Does the sample need to be off the filter or just scoop some water out of the tank?
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Sorry again for being testy.  Sometimes though newbies can be sensitive and all should keep that in mind...  It also is hard to understand the inflection of people in writing vs. say eye to eye.  I have been misunderstood more than a few times on that.  Also this is too busy for me to answer all posts though I have been reading everyone.  Thanks again, Evita


                                                                                                                        Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        Evita,

                                                                                                                        What I said was that an ADULT goldfish needs about 30 gallons of water to
                                                                                                                        live well. This would imply that younger goldfish can get by with less. In
                                                                                                                        fact, many people start fish out in a smaller tank, and move them to larger
                                                                                                                        quarters as they grow. I did not mention, in my reply, the requirements of a
                                                                                                                        betta in any way, but since you brought it up, an adult _Betta splendens_,
                                                                                                                        commonly known as betta, can do well in a lesser volume of water, though I
                                                                                                                        would hesitate to recommend less than 2 quarts.

                                                                                                                        You are probably referring to the 1" of fish per gallon myth when you say,
                                                                                                                        "They were way under the limit as far as inches.". This has been around for
                                                                                                                        a long time, and certainly pre-dates my involvement in the hobby
                                                                                                                        mumblty-mumblty years ago. While I was thinking about this, I posted to
                                                                                                                        another list that may have members who know at least some of the history of
                                                                                                                        this "golden rule". The number of fish that can be placed in a given
                                                                                                                        quantity of water depends more on the physiology and biology of the fish
                                                                                                                        than any hard and fast rule about fish size. Probably the most unfortunate
                                                                                                                        aspect of this rule is that, in certain cases, it does work.

                                                                                                                        People who are goldfish keepers do, indeed, give them the space they need.
                                                                                                                        The price you quote for a 150 gallon tank does seem to be a bit on the high
                                                                                                                        side, but probably within reason. It has been a while since I have shopped
                                                                                                                        for tanks, and a quick look at a couple of sites did not give me a real good
                                                                                                                        feel for the market price, though glasscages.com quotes a price of $345 with
                                                                                                                        a pickup off the truck at one of the shows they will be at. They are the low
                                                                                                                        end.

                                                                                                                        Working long hours can certainly be a drag. I have a ton of comp time built
                                                                                                                        up, and I hope that your boss is not like mine, who says to take the day
                                                                                                                        off, then calls me in to a job or two because he has no one else to handle
                                                                                                                        them (we are talking skill sets here, not personnel shortage). By the time
                                                                                                                        the weekend rolls around, I may have a few hundred messages to go through,
                                                                                                                        not counting the spam. I also am on call for another company for tech
                                                                                                                        support during evenings and on weekends.

                                                                                                                        Adjusting your temperature: Back off on the thermostat, perhaps a half turn
                                                                                                                        or a full turn, and let the water reach room temperature. Then turn the
                                                                                                                        thermostat up just until the light comes on. Wait a day and check the
                                                                                                                        temperature, if it is still not up to what you would like, repeat until you
                                                                                                                        reach the desired temperature.

                                                                                                                        With regard to your cycling the tank, are you still adding ammonia to the
                                                                                                                        tank? The addition of ammonia should continue until the cycle is established
                                                                                                                        and fish are added. You should see an immediate increase in the ammonia,
                                                                                                                        with it reaching zero by the time for the next dose. Failure to continue the
                                                                                                                        ammonia additions would result in a loss of the bacteria that utilize it,
                                                                                                                        with some going into hibernation, and others dieing.

                                                                                                                        ________________________________

                                                                                                                        From: Evita [mailto:evitabug@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 7:15 AM
                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can
                                                                                                                        get!


                                                                                                                        Steve, excuse me.  Are you saying that one needs a pool basically to keep a
                                                                                                                        goldfish and a cup to keep a Beta?  My fish were very tiny....Now I am just
                                                                                                                        plain flabber gasted.  I feel like you are attacking me some how.  I am
                                                                                                                        wondering if anyone in the group keeps goldfish.  I didn't have a bowl I had
                                                                                                                        a 20 gal tank.  They were way under the limit as far as inches.  My problem
                                                                                                                        was I wasn't aware of the water changes needed.  Most people start with
                                                                                                                        goldfish thinking they are easy ...I never heard someone say  get a 30 gal
                                                                                                                        tank and put one 2.00 goldfish in it and never add anymore.  Now around here
                                                                                                                        a 150 gal. tank would run you about 500.00 plus.  If they are that hard to
                                                                                                                        keep why would anyone keep them?  I realize you are trying to help but...

                                                                                                                        I have been working a ton lately and have barely had time to read all my new
                                                                                                                        mail must less answer it.  For that I am really sorry.  I had no idea how
                                                                                                                        much and many comments I would get.    Oh, yesterday I was able to buy some
                                                                                                                        books off of a friend.  Beginner type books she no longer needed and it is
                                                                                                                        proving to be very helpful as well.  I haven't had time to post them as of
                                                                                                                        yet but these are my numbers for yesterday.  This is day four of my tanks
                                                                                                                        being filled with water.  I posted this insert in another group.  My tanks
                                                                                                                        are still clear and I am trying to get the heat settings at about 72-75.
                                                                                                                        This is hit and miss for me right now.  I have them at 78 right now.  Thanks
                                                                                                                        again in advance. 

                                                                                                                        I filled my
                                                                                                                        tanks up at the same time 3 days ago. I added decloriner and I am
                                                                                                                        just letting them sit as of know to let it cycle. I tested the water
                                                                                                                        this morning on both tanks and not surprizenly they are the same.
                                                                                                                        Here are my staits as they were:

                                                                                                                        Nitrate- 20 on the chart says OK, Nitrite between 0- .5 Middle
                                                                                                                        between caution and safe I am saying around 2.5 range, My hardness
                                                                                                                        is 75 which they call soft, The Alkalinity is at 40 which it says
                                                                                                                        good, and my ph is 6.8.


                                                                                                                        I am planning a water change possibly in a week. Which is the best
                                                                                                                        time to do a non-fish water change. Do I need to see my numbers go
                                                                                                                        up first since I have no fish as of yet? I am trying to get the
                                                                                                                        tanks suitable to add my first few fish and add other fish slowly. I
                                                                                                                        was told by the pet-shop I could add fish in a week ...two weeks to
                                                                                                                        be safe, but I have read with starting up it is best to do at least a
                                                                                                                        30 day non-fish cycle before adding fish. The pet-shops really don't
                                                                                                                        care because if the fish die they just sell you more. It isn't in
                                                                                                                        their interest to prevent fish deaths. I don't want to kill fish to
                                                                                                                        find out if my tanks are ready. I would rather be safe than sorry.

                                                                                                                        Sorry so long. I have one more silly question
                                                                                                                        that bugs me on the subject of the number of fish to keep for the
                                                                                                                        water gal of the tank. They say so many inches of fish but that the
                                                                                                                        size isn't a factor. I was thinking community fish platies and
                                                                                                                        guppies to start. I thought of Mollies and have sore of changed my
                                                                                                                        mind a bit on them. But in regards to the platies and guppies, why
                                                                                                                        do they count the same in length even though guppies seem so much
                                                                                                                        smaller. For my 30 gal they said no more than 15 fish or guppies
                                                                                                                        size in that range. The guppies are so small, at 15 guppies you
                                                                                                                        might hardly see or notice them at all. The larger in size but the
                                                                                                                        same in length platies would make the tank look much fuller. So why
                                                                                                                        are they counted the same. What about those (SORRY FORGOT THE NAME}
                                                                                                                        long snake like skinny fish that stay on the bottom. They a really
                                                                                                                        small but at the same time about 4 inches long. I thought one also
                                                                                                                        took into consideration where the fish feed and live like bottom,
                                                                                                                        middle and top as well as being bigger in size not just head to tail
                                                                                                                        length.

                                                                                                                        Anyway look forward to any and all comments for new-bees. Thanks,
                                                                                                                        Hope I am not to chatty....I tend to be that way. Evita



                                                                                                                        Evita

                                                                                                                        Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                              FWIW, a goldfish should live 20+ years. An adult goldfish should
                                                                                                                        have a
                                                                                                                              minimum of 30 gallons of water per fish--for your 5, you should have
                                                                                                                        had a
                                                                                                                              tank of 120-150 gallons.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                              Goldfish are messy fish. They produce a lot of waste. Someone
                                                                                                                        mentioned
                                                                                                                              earlier cleaning the filter once a month--bad idea. Especially for
                                                                                                                        fish like
                                                                                                                              goldfish, a filter should be serviced at least once a week, or when
                                                                                                                        the flow
                                                                                                                              of water slows.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                              If you are going to start with more tropical fish now, read up about
                                                                                                                        them.
                                                                                                                              Probably time to get a good book to go along with the stuff you pull
                                                                                                                        off the
                                                                                                                              Internet. I recommend the Baench _Aquarium Atlas_ as a good book for
                                                                                                                        those
                                                                                                                              who are starting and want to do things right. Get Volume 1, and
                                                                                                                        don't worry
                                                                                                                              about the other volumes for know. It has a good section on setting
                                                                                                                        up and
                                                                                                                              maintaining an aquarium. It has a short, but good, section on live
                                                                                                                        plants,
                                                                                                                              and, of course, lots and lots of fish.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                              Guppies can easily be kept at room temperature, 68-72^o F.+.
                                                                                                                        Platies, as I
                                                                                                                              recollect, would be the same. despite their reputation as a
                                                                                                                        "beginner's"
                                                                                                                              fish, mollies really are not, and I'd not recommend them for one who
                                                                                                                        is just
                                                                                                                              learning how to do things right.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                              I'd probably throw in a couple of cory catfish to go with the
                                                                                                                        guppies and
                                                                                                                              platies. They are relatively hardy, and pH is not critical for them,
                                                                                                                        though
                                                                                                                              they tend to come from waters that are sub 7.0 pH, while the guppies
                                                                                                                        and
                                                                                                                              platies are found inters that are more than 7.0 pH.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                              The guppies will stay, pretty much, in the top third of the tank.
                                                                                                                        The
                                                                                                                              platies will also spend a lot of time in the top third of the tank.
                                                                                                                        The
                                                                                                                              catfish you chose will mainly stay in the bottom third of the tank.
                                                                                                                        You will
                                                                                                                              probably want to get a fish that will spend time in the middle third
                                                                                                                        of the
                                                                                                                              tank.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                             

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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9973 From: TC@};- Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Got a fish food Q
                                                                                                                        I've noticed in many fish tanks at store,(Pet& General) that have
                                                                                                                        pieces for cucumber or zucciney and yellow squash ancored to the
                                                                                                                        bottom of the tanks... Is there a certain benefit to this? I have
                                                                                                                        Mollys and sword tail and 1 male beta in a 75 gal tank, we just set
                                                                                                                        up, plastic plants at the moment to hide possible little ones soon-
                                                                                                                        mollys...any tips of feeding would be cool,, TC
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9974 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Birth Patterns of Platties


                                                                                                                        Platties,are so interbred  that birth difects and still births are VERY VERY common. Breeders ,breed there fish for a certain quality usually through line breeding. ( breeding 1 generation to the next )Once you get so many generations into line breeding you develop some issues. Now say you bought 10 platties from the store. The chances are almost 100% that those platties if same color or variety are related.
                                                                                                                        Now you take them home they breed, the brother and sisters grow and they breed, etc etc ...
                                                                                                                        You Trade some to the LFS who in turn sells some to your neighbor now your neighbor lets them breed  ad there off spring breed...  get where I am going?

                                                                                                                        If you could get some NEW Blood into the tank it might help with still births, and birth defects. Temperature also can be an issue. Platties,Mollies and swordtails like warm water above 75*f  If there are to many males 1 male per 3-4 females the females could be getting stressed from harassment.

                                                                                                                        of course mollies will breed with any variety of molly.
                                                                                                                        but did you know swordtails and platties will cross breed?

                                                                                                                        Fish of the same species will cross breed if given a chance. If you don't mind this then keep  the colors you want to keep and enjoy your tank.

                                                                                                                        I think I answered all your questions if you have more ask...  :-)


                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                        Indiana



                                                                                                                        In a message dated 4/4/2005 10:18:52 AM US Eastern Standard Time, evitabug@... writes:



                                                                                                                        I have a question on platties for anyone ...after reading your posts.  I was told by a lady I know after her females gave birth they died.  She emplied this was normal.  She said it happened every time any femal she had gave birth.  I was thinking it is not normal  but stress related.  I have never kept them so I  thought I would post the question here.  I have been considering platties myself and want to learn more about them.  I also have another new-bee question on them.  I know they come in several colors and types as well as the Mollies do.  Can one put several different types and colors together?  Would they mate and cause other variations.Or  should one stick to same color fish when choosing a breed in one tank.  What I mean is, could you keep several colors of that fish, like salt and pepper and gold together?  Evita  



                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9975 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Got a fish food Q



                                                                                                                        your mollies and swordtails would like a nice slice of squash or cucumber once in a while. If you have any plecos ( algae eating ones) they would also benefit from some vegetable matter.
                                                                                                                        Attach the slices to a rock or decoration with a rubberband. Once the food deteriates far enough to get loose from the rubberband remove from tank.
                                                                                                                        It might take awhile for the fish to find it, but once they do it will be eaten off of for a few days..

                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                        Indiana
                                                                                                                        USA


                                                                                                                        In a message dated 4/4/2005 10:52:24 AM US Eastern Standard Time, tc_doucet2001@... writes:


                                                                                                                        I've noticed in many fish tanks at store,(Pet& General) that have
                                                                                                                        pieces for cucumber or zucciney and yellow squash ancored to the
                                                                                                                        bottom of the tanks... Is there a certain benefit to this?  I have
                                                                                                                        Mollys and sword tail and 1 male beta in a 75 gal tank, we just set
                                                                                                                        up, plastic plants at the moment to hide possible little ones soon-
                                                                                                                        mollys...any tips of feeding would be cool,, TC


                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9976 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Got a fish food Q
                                                                                                                        I have cories, tetras, zebra danios, guppies, frogs, a large snail and violet gobies.  Would they eat vegetables?
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        -------------- Original message --------------



                                                                                                                        your mollies and swordtails would like a nice slice of squash or cucumber once in a while. If you have any plecos ( algae eating ones) they would also benefit from some vegetable matter.
                                                                                                                        Attach the slices to a rock or decoration with a rubberband. Once the food deteriates far enough to get loose from the rubberband remove from tank.
                                                                                                                        It might take awhile for the fish to find it, but once they do it will be eaten off of for a few days..

                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                        Indiana
                                                                                                                        USA


                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9977 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Paul  I just posted back to Steve on the subject as well and other stuff.  I do ramble and have so many questions.  Everyone has the baggage they come with on any particular day with lour lives and stress.  I think I over reacted.  I just never heard the size thing in regarding tanks for goldfish.  My fish were small but growing.  I still think it was related to not changing the water.  I like many people had the thought that changing the filter and keeping my water up to the top was fine.  I even bought my water from the local pet shop which never told me otherwise I might add.  I still wonder why they (pet shops) push goldfish as a the easiest and first tank fish for kids.  Hardy and almost un-killable.  Then when they die we think if we can't keep goldfish why even try to keep anything else.  Then you try after 5-6 months to get your tanks back up and one of the earliest posts you read is your fish died because you should have had a tank 10 times the size you had. 
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        I remember the goldfish in the bowl with the daily water changes straight from the facet and no additives when I was a kid.  Even today you might see a bowl on a table in various TV shows as a prop.  How may times I have seen the theme on a TV where the goldfish dies and the person that was keeping it tried to run to the pet-shop to replace it before the owner gets back and is up set with them.  They all play out like the whole thing is funny.  I remember a particular one on Home Improvement.  I saw it in a re-run a couple months ago.  It bordered on what I call mean.  The story was one of the boys was keeping a little girl friends gold fish for the weekend and it was in a bowl.  The usual in these stories it started when the first day it died.  He didn't want to tell her.  He tried everything.  He even tried to sink it to the bottom by putting a little metal ball bearing in it's mouth.  It wasn't funny to me just gross at that point.  He even tries to find one at the pet shop to pass off as her fish.  Like any fish of the same color would do.  
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Anyway I have enjoyed reading all the posts and am learning a lot.  I just don't have time to answer them all.  I hope not to offend anyone If I can't answer right back.  I am so busy. I was at home the last 12 years with my children when they were small and have just started back to work outside the home.  I really miss the freedom of choice with my time I used to have.  Also I am working hard on my so called free time little as it is, on my painting for my church's Bible school coming up really soon.  I am my church's artist and co. director.  Thanks again for your post and sorry to ramble.  I have to get off line now because the local power comp. truck just drove up to my house and informed me they were cutting the power for about 3 hours in a minute to work on it. 


                                                                                                                        paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        the reference to thirty gallons for an adult goldfish
                                                                                                                        is for oine that is everal years old, as they do hit
                                                                                                                        20 inches or so, so even if you went by the old
                                                                                                                        generality of 1 inch per gallon, they are close to
                                                                                                                        correct.  the other reason for so large a tank is that
                                                                                                                        goldfish are among the messiest fish around and could
                                                                                                                        use the excess water volume to make things easier on
                                                                                                                        you.  small goldfish should have about 2 gallons for
                                                                                                                        every in ch, again using generality.  the higher the
                                                                                                                        quality of your filtration the less volume is needed,
                                                                                                                        and the less work you have to do.  likewise, the
                                                                                                                        larger the volume the more self sufficient the tank
                                                                                                                        will be.  i hope that your experience with posts get s
                                                                                                                        better.
                                                                                                                        paul


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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9978 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        Paul, Just one question....I know all fish came from the wild first of course in one form or another then breed to different colors and whatnot.  Some barely seem the same as the fish that started in the wild. But......Do you know how Bettas got started and how they lived in the wild?  Why are they kept in small spaces like they are?  Just curious. How would they live in nature?  I thought the point of tanks were to make it as close to nature as one can.  I know you don't want the males to fight but I see people keeping the females in tanks with other fish.  I would love to learn more about them.  Evita

                                                                                                                        paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        8/10 of a gallon is far more water than 90% of bettas
                                                                                                                        ever get! they spend several weeks ina  bag packed
                                                                                                                        with pure o2 and 1/2-1oz of water during shipping.
                                                                                                                        8/10 of a gallon should be paradise for them.

                                                                                                                        --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                        > at 8 tenths of a gallon without gravel, I can't
                                                                                                                        > imagine a happy betta. The
                                                                                                                        > video shows 100% water changes through a funnel..
                                                                                                                        > ALL  i can think is stress for
                                                                                                                        > the fish.
                                                                                                                        > But if there is a market for it, it will be made and
                                                                                                                        > sold.....
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > rob
                                                                                                                        > Indiana
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > In a message dated 4/2/2005 10:02:25 PM US Eastern
                                                                                                                        > Standard Time,
                                                                                                                        > valeendgonzalez@... writes:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > > the video will tick you off.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20755&item=4370111147&
                                                                                                                        > > rd=1#ebayphotohosting
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > just frustrated and had to get it out.sorry for
                                                                                                                        > the rant.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                                   
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9979 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        Steve,  They didn't stop growing and never said that.  Just that they were not really that big.  I realized they would grow.  I have seen the full grown ones in a large pond at the ZOO.  I know that fish can out grow their environments.  Evita 


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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9980 From: paul helms Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        i do work in a lfs, and goldfish are one of the
                                                                                                                        hardiest fish that there is, but the thing is that
                                                                                                                        many people buy feeder fish to use as pets. while
                                                                                                                        they are "goldfish" the way that they are handled is
                                                                                                                        very different. the first issues is that they are
                                                                                                                        young and have not had tons of time to get hardy. the
                                                                                                                        second issue is that they are shipped 1,000 to a bag.
                                                                                                                        that is a 1,000 fish polluting a gallon or 2 of water
                                                                                                                        for the full day, which killls a lot of them. the
                                                                                                                        last issue is taht feeder tanks are not really thaht
                                                                                                                        well maintained in most places as they are food. if
                                                                                                                        the lfs has a healthy set up, the fish should do fine.
                                                                                                                        ours is 135 gallons, and we get 50 small feeders a
                                                                                                                        week, so there is little loss. if you stick to
                                                                                                                        orandas, black moors, etc they will do much better as
                                                                                                                        they are treated better.
                                                                                                                        paul
                                                                                                                        --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Paul I just posted back to Steve on the subject as
                                                                                                                        > well and other stuff. I do ramble and have so many
                                                                                                                        > questions. Everyone has the baggage they come with
                                                                                                                        > on any particular day with lour lives and stress. I
                                                                                                                        > think I over reacted. I just never heard the size
                                                                                                                        > thing in regarding tanks for goldfish. My fish were
                                                                                                                        > small but growing. I still think it was related to
                                                                                                                        > not changing the water. I like many people had the
                                                                                                                        > thought that changing the filter and keeping my
                                                                                                                        > water up to the top was fine. I even bought my
                                                                                                                        > water from the local pet shop which never told me
                                                                                                                        > otherwise I might add. I still wonder why they (pet
                                                                                                                        > shops) push goldfish as a the easiest and first tank
                                                                                                                        > fish for kids. Hardy and almost un-killable. Then
                                                                                                                        > when they die we think if we can't keep goldfish why
                                                                                                                        > even try to keep anything else. Then you try after
                                                                                                                        > 5-6 months to get your tanks back up and one of the
                                                                                                                        > earliest posts you read is your fish died because
                                                                                                                        > you should have had a tank 10 times the size you
                                                                                                                        > had.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I remember the goldfish in the bowl with the daily
                                                                                                                        > water changes straight from the facet and no
                                                                                                                        > additives when I was a kid. Even today you might
                                                                                                                        > see a bowl on a table in various TV shows as a prop.
                                                                                                                        > How may times I have seen the theme on a TV where
                                                                                                                        > the goldfish dies and the person that was keeping it
                                                                                                                        > tried to run to the pet-shop to replace it before
                                                                                                                        > the owner gets back and is up set with them. They
                                                                                                                        > all play out like the whole thing is funny. I
                                                                                                                        > remember a particular one on Home Improvement. I
                                                                                                                        > saw it in a re-run a couple months ago. It bordered
                                                                                                                        > on what I call mean. The story was one of the boys
                                                                                                                        > was keeping a little girl friends gold fish for the
                                                                                                                        > weekend and it was in a bowl. The usual in these
                                                                                                                        > stories it started when the first day it died. He
                                                                                                                        > didn't want to tell her. He tried everything. He
                                                                                                                        > even tried to sink it to the bottom by putting a
                                                                                                                        > little metal ball bearing in it's mouth. It wasn't
                                                                                                                        > funny to me just gross at that point. He even tries
                                                                                                                        > to find one at the pet shop to
                                                                                                                        > pass off as her fish. Like any fish of the same
                                                                                                                        > color would do.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Anyway I have enjoyed reading all the posts and am
                                                                                                                        > learning a lot. I just don't have time to answer
                                                                                                                        > them all. I hope not to offend anyone If I can't
                                                                                                                        > answer right back. I am so busy. I was at home the
                                                                                                                        > last 12 years with my children when they were small
                                                                                                                        > and have just started back to work outside the home.
                                                                                                                        > I really miss the freedom of choice with my time I
                                                                                                                        > used to have. Also I am working hard on my so
                                                                                                                        > called free time little as it is, on my painting for
                                                                                                                        > my church's Bible school coming up really soon. I
                                                                                                                        > am my church's artist and co. director. Thanks
                                                                                                                        > again for your post and sorry to ramble. I have to
                                                                                                                        > get off line now because the local power comp. truck
                                                                                                                        > just drove up to my house and informed me they were
                                                                                                                        > cutting the power for about 3 hours in a minute to
                                                                                                                        > work on it.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:the reference
                                                                                                                        > to thirty gallons for an adult goldfish
                                                                                                                        > is for oine that is everal years old, as they do hit
                                                                                                                        > 20 inches or so, so even if you went by the old
                                                                                                                        > generality of 1 inch per gallon, they are close to
                                                                                                                        > correct. the other reason for so large a tank is
                                                                                                                        > that
                                                                                                                        > goldfish are among the messiest fish around and
                                                                                                                        > could
                                                                                                                        > use the excess water volume to make things easier on
                                                                                                                        > you. small goldfish should have about 2 gallons for
                                                                                                                        > every in ch, again using generality. the higher the
                                                                                                                        > quality of your filtration the less volume is
                                                                                                                        > needed,
                                                                                                                        > and the less work you have to do. likewise, the
                                                                                                                        > larger the volume the more self sufficient the tank
                                                                                                                        > will be. i hope that your experience with posts get
                                                                                                                        > s
                                                                                                                        > better.
                                                                                                                        > paul
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9981 From: paul helms Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        Bettas come from rice patties in siam, which are
                                                                                                                        extremely murky and churned up water sources. they
                                                                                                                        generally stick in a small area hidden amongst the
                                                                                                                        plants and since the water is so clouded they rarely
                                                                                                                        see eachother. this is pasrt of the aggression. they
                                                                                                                        are not socialized in anture. they only see eachother
                                                                                                                        when the female go looking for male to breed with.
                                                                                                                        the reason they are usually in small containers is
                                                                                                                        taht they do not rely on dissolved oxygen inthe water
                                                                                                                        to breathe. they are labrynth fish and breathe
                                                                                                                        atmospheric oxygen through their mnouths, hence they
                                                                                                                        do not need a large body of water with dissolved o2
                                                                                                                        and current to pass through their gills. this is also
                                                                                                                        why they are able to live through poor conditions.
                                                                                                                        the ammonia at higher levels does not burn their gils,
                                                                                                                        or if it does, it is of little consequence.
                                                                                                                        --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > Paul, Just one question....I know all fish came from
                                                                                                                        > the wild first of course in one form or another then
                                                                                                                        > breed to different colors and whatnot. Some barely
                                                                                                                        > seem the same as the fish that started in the wild.
                                                                                                                        > But......Do you know how Bettas got started and how
                                                                                                                        > they lived in the wild? Why are they kept in small
                                                                                                                        > spaces like they are? Just curious. How would they
                                                                                                                        > live in nature? I thought the point of tanks were
                                                                                                                        > to make it as close to nature as one can. I know
                                                                                                                        > you don't want the males to fight but I see people
                                                                                                                        > keeping the females in tanks with other fish. I
                                                                                                                        > would love to learn more about them. Evita
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:8/10 of a
                                                                                                                        > gallon is far more water than 90% of bettas
                                                                                                                        > ever get! they spend several weeks ina bag packed
                                                                                                                        > with pure o2 and 1/2-1oz of water during shipping.
                                                                                                                        > 8/10 of a gallon should be paradise for them.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                        > > at 8 tenths of a gallon without gravel, I can't
                                                                                                                        > > imagine a happy betta. The
                                                                                                                        > > video shows 100% water changes through a funnel..
                                                                                                                        > > ALL i can think is stress for
                                                                                                                        > > the fish.
                                                                                                                        > > But if there is a market for it, it will be made
                                                                                                                        > and
                                                                                                                        > > sold.....
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > rob
                                                                                                                        > > Indiana
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > In a message dated 4/2/2005 10:02:25 PM US Eastern
                                                                                                                        > > Standard Time,
                                                                                                                        > > valeendgonzalez@... writes:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > > the video will tick you off.
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20755&item=4370111147&
                                                                                                                        > > > rd=1#ebayphotohosting
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > > > just frustrated and had to get it out.sorry for
                                                                                                                        > > the rant.
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9982 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Got a fish food Q
                                                                                                                        yes, your cories, tetras, and SNAIL should like the vegie matter very much

                                                                                                                        I'd stick with yellow squash as its less messy. If you do not anchor it down it will float unless you blanch it. ( miscrowave in bowl of water for a minute or two ) or until it sinks.  Let cool before adding to tank( change water in bowl from Boiling to cold)

                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                        Indiana
                                                                                                                        USA

                                                                                                                        In a message dated 4/4/2005 11:23:27 AM US Eastern Standard Time, angelasjenkins@... writes:


                                                                                                                        I have cories, tetras, zebra danios, guppies, frogs, a large snail and violet gobies.  Would they eat vegetables?



                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9983 From: Patricia Burch-Vaughn Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: new with questions
                                                                                                                        Hi All,

                                                                                                                        I'm new to the hobby and although I'm reading all I can--net and
                                                                                                                        books--I have some questions that don't seem to be addressed. My LFS
                                                                                                                        seems to know less than I do, unfortunately.

                                                                                                                        Old Water: When is water considered old? weeks? months? years?
                                                                                                                        Plants: Low, medium, high light? What wattages are these?
                                                                                                                        Feeding: Just what the fish will consume in 3 or 5 minutes--sources
                                                                                                                        differ here/
                                                                                                                        Ok. but how do I insure that the bottom feeders--khuli loaches &
                                                                                                                        corys--are receiving enough food?

                                                                                                                        TIA,
                                                                                                                        Pat
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9984 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        Evita said:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I just never heard the size thing in regarding tanks for
                                                                                                                        > goldfish. My fish were small but growing. I still think it was related
                                                                                                                        > to not changing the water.
                                                                                                                        I think you may be right. Feeder goldfish usually die due to disease.
                                                                                                                        There's nothing inherently wrong with them that causes them to die, just
                                                                                                                        how they're treated (thousands to a tank). If you had them a few years,
                                                                                                                        you nursed them back to health. Don't punish yourself for not knowing to
                                                                                                                        change the water. Instead, take comfort in the fact that without you
                                                                                                                        taking them, they would have been dead within days.


                                                                                                                        >I like many people had the thought that
                                                                                                                        > changing the filter and keeping my water up to the top was fine.
                                                                                                                        That is the most important thing, but water changes are necessary as well.

                                                                                                                        > I even
                                                                                                                        > bought my water from the local pet shop
                                                                                                                        I hope you'll be stopping that practice. It's a waste of money.


                                                                                                                        > I remember the goldfish in the bowl with the daily water changes straight
                                                                                                                        > from the facet and no additives when I was a kid.
                                                                                                                        That will actually work very well. 100% water changes per day don't even
                                                                                                                        need dechlorinator, because Ammonia levels will never get high enough to
                                                                                                                        need denitrifying bacteria, so the chlorine killing the bacteria won't
                                                                                                                        matter.

                                                                                                                        Koi are related to goldfish. There is a koi pond in Japan that is spring
                                                                                                                        (or stream?) fed. Several of the Koi in the pond can be DOCUMENTED to
                                                                                                                        over 140 years old. By a process similar to counting tree rings, one of
                                                                                                                        them was estimated to be 226 years old at her death in 1977.

                                                                                                                        http://www.arborman.com/koioldes.htm

                                                                                                                        Most Koi don't live this long, but then most Koi don't have a stream or
                                                                                                                        spring providing 100%+ water changes on a daily basis.

                                                                                                                        Water changes can make all the difference.
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9985 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: glass block betta aquarium
                                                                                                                        > ...I personally would like to see Betta splendens discontinued in the
                                                                                                                        fish trade and be replaced with something more community friendly like
                                                                                                                        imbelis or mahachai

                                                                                                                        I find bettas to be perfectly community friendly. We have two males
                                                                                                                        and two females (one pair in each of our community tanks) and they get
                                                                                                                        along just fine with guppies, mollies, platies, sharks, gold gouramis,
                                                                                                                        angelfish, tetras, and catfish. I've only had one male that didn't do
                                                                                                                        well in a community tank, but even he only went after the guppies.
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9986 From: Kyle Osterholt Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: betta blocks
                                                                                                                        it's amazing how out of context all these mailing lists get.  First off, the splenden's "nastiness"  comment was to their temperament to eachother and many times other tankmates.  All 4 of my bettas through the years killed their tankmates.  It is a known fact they kill eachother and is why they are kept in small cups in the store.  My comment was not to trash the fish, it was to complement the other bettas I was talking about who are not this way.  Now for the betta hitting the bottom of the tank:  I take it you didn't watch the video.  The betta was not simply dropped into the water, I know the fish wouldn't necessarily be injured in this procedure.  BUT, had you watched the video, the betta was poured into the glass block along with the water.  there was only 1/2 of the cube full of water, maybe 3-4" of water, the betta was poured into the tank with the force of the other half of the water on TOP of the fish forcing it into the gravel.  You can hear the betta CRASH into the gravel on the video camera across the room.  Now, tell me what you just told me AFTER you watch the video and listen to the sound.  I'm not arguing physics so get off your high horse, I'm talking plain english with a comment using an example.  I'm not going to measure the actual force exerted on the fish impacting the gravel, point made was it wasn't pleasant and you wouldn't want the same thing to happen to you.  OK, here's another example for you to ponder your science on.  Jump off a waterfall with rocks below and slam your head into the rocks below and see how you like it.  to put that in scale, the 3" fish falling from 8-10" hitting gravel in 4" of water should put a 6' man jumping off a 18-20' or approximate tall waterfall into about 7' of water...something like that anyway.  You'd also need to calculate the gpm of water falling behind you but I've got better things to do..... 

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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9987 From: Amalthea Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: betta blocks
                                                                                                                        i really think the crashing sound is the water on the gravel and i HAVE
                                                                                                                        seen the video.
                                                                                                                        amalthea
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                                                                                                                        On Apr 4, 2005, at 2:43 PM, Kyle Osterholt wrote:

                                                                                                                        > it's amazing how out of context all these mailing lists get.  First
                                                                                                                        > off, the splenden's "nastiness"  comment was to their temperament to
                                                                                                                        > eachother and many times other tankmates.  All 4 of my bettas through
                                                                                                                        > the years killed their tankmates.  It is a known fact they kill
                                                                                                                        > eachother and is why they are kept in small cups in the store.  My
                                                                                                                        > comment was not to trash the fish, it was to complement the other
                                                                                                                        > bettas I was talking about who are not this way.  Now for the betta
                                                                                                                        > hitting the bottom of the tank:  I take it you didn't watch the
                                                                                                                        > video.  The betta was not simply dropped into the water, I know the
                                                                                                                        > fish wouldn't necessarily be injured in this procedure.  BUT, had you
                                                                                                                        > watched the video, the betta was poured into the glass block along
                                                                                                                        > with the water.  there was only 1/2 of the cube full of water, maybe
                                                                                                                        > 3-4" of water, the betta was poured into the tank with the force of
                                                                                                                        > the other half of the water on TOP of the fish forcing it into the
                                                                                                                        > gravel.  You can hear the betta CRASH into the gravel on the video
                                                                                                                        > camera across the room.  Now, tell me what you just told me AFTER you
                                                                                                                        > watch the video and listen to the sound.  I'm not arguing physics so
                                                                                                                        > get off your high horse, I'm talking plain english with a comment
                                                                                                                        > using an example.  I'm not going to measure the actual force exerted
                                                                                                                        > on the fish impacting the gravel, point made was it wasn't pleasant
                                                                                                                        > and you wouldn't want the same thing to happen to you.  OK, here's
                                                                                                                        > another example for you to ponder your science on.  Jump off a
                                                                                                                        > waterfall with rocks below and slam your head into the rocks below and
                                                                                                                        > see how you like it.  to put that in scale, the 3" fish falling from
                                                                                                                        > 8-10" hitting gravel in 4" of water should put a 6' man jumping off a
                                                                                                                        > 18-20' or approximate tall waterfall into about 7' of
                                                                                                                        > water...something like that anyway.  You'd also need to calculate the
                                                                                                                        > gpm of water falling behind you but I've got better things to
                                                                                                                        > do.....&nb! sp;
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9988 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: betta blocks
                                                                                                                        ah, ok, it's hard to understand some things on an email -- as emails don't carry the same nuances
                                                                                                                        that the human voice does =) now i understand that you meant bettas are nasty as in mean, rather
                                                                                                                        than nasty as in gross.

                                                                                                                        and i too agree with you that the bettas being poured into the block was definitely not pleasant
                                                                                                                        for them!

                                                                                                                        --- Kyle Osterholt <snakeskinnerkyle@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        > it's amazing how out of context all these mailing lists get. First off, the splenden's
                                                                                                                        > "nastiness" comment was to their temperament to eachother and many times other tankmates. All
                                                                                                                        > 4 of my bettas through the years killed their tankmates. It is a known fact they kill eachother
                                                                                                                        > and is why they are kept in small cups in the store. My comment was not to trash the fish, it
                                                                                                                        > was to complement the other bettas I was talking about who are not this way. Now for the betta
                                                                                                                        > hitting the bottom of the tank: I take it you didn't watch the video. The betta was not simply
                                                                                                                        > dropped into the water, I know the fish wouldn't necessarily be injured in this procedure. BUT,
                                                                                                                        > had you watched the video, the betta was poured into the glass block along with the water.
                                                                                                                        > there was only 1/2 of the cube full of water, maybe 3-4" of water, the betta was poured into the
                                                                                                                        > tank with the force of the other half of the water on TOP of the fish forcing it into the
                                                                                                                        > gravel. You can hear the betta CRASH into the gravel
                                                                                                                        > on the video camera across the room. Now, tell me what you just told me AFTER you watch the
                                                                                                                        > video and listen to the sound. I'm not arguing physics so get off your high horse, I'm talking
                                                                                                                        > plain english with a comment using an example. I'm not going to measure the actual force
                                                                                                                        > exerted on the fish impacting the gravel, point made was it wasn't pleasant and you wouldn't
                                                                                                                        > want the same thing to happen to you. OK, here's another example for you to ponder your science
                                                                                                                        > on. Jump off a waterfall with rocks below and slam your head into the rocks below and see how
                                                                                                                        > you like it. to put that in scale, the 3" fish falling from 8-10" hitting gravel in 4" of water
                                                                                                                        > should put a 6' man jumping off a 18-20' or approximate tall waterfall into about 7' of
                                                                                                                        > water...something like that anyway. You'd also need to calculate the gpm of water falling
                                                                                                                        > behind you but I've got better things to do.....
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9989 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Got a fish food Q
                                                                                                                        i feed zucchini to my pleco & otos, which they love. the tetras also nip at the zucchini although
                                                                                                                        i'm not sure how much of it they actually eat as the pleco and otos hog most of it. =)

                                                                                                                        --- "TC@};-" <tc_doucet2001@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I've noticed in many fish tanks at store,(Pet& General) that have
                                                                                                                        > pieces for cucumber or zucciney and yellow squash ancored to the
                                                                                                                        > bottom of the tanks... Is there a certain benefit to this? I have
                                                                                                                        > Mollys and sword tail and 1 male beta in a 75 gal tank, we just set
                                                                                                                        > up, plastic plants at the moment to hide possible little ones soon-
                                                                                                                        > mollys...any tips of feeding would be cool,, TC
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9990 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Betta Care
                                                                                                                        in such a small tank i would change the water at least once a week, more often if possible.

                                                                                                                        the spring water isn't really necessary. you can use tap water if you have tap water conditioner
                                                                                                                        like prime or or amquel +. i use prime and it works great.

                                                                                                                        i feed my adf's aquatic frog & tadpole bites by HBH. and i feed my bettas baby betta bio gold
                                                                                                                        pellets by hikari.

                                                                                                                        hope this helps.

                                                                                                                        --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:

                                                                                                                        > Now that we've had so much discussion regarding the video for the betta tank, I have questions
                                                                                                                        > regarding the care of a male betta. My son has a 1.66 gallon AquaTank Plus (hooded light, air
                                                                                                                        > pump, undergravel filter system in an acrylic tank). He wants a male betta and a African dwarf
                                                                                                                        > frog. I have spring water for the tank. What else do we need to do? How often should the
                                                                                                                        > water be changed? How much should be changed?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Thanks for your help.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Angela in Richmond, VA


                                                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9991 From: Amalthea Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Betta Care
                                                                                                                        i'm not sure why he doesn't just have people use a small tube as a
                                                                                                                        syphon with the glass block. that way he could vacuum and reduce stress
                                                                                                                        all at once.
                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                        http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                                        Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
                                                                                                                        On Apr 4, 2005, at 3:15 PM, Valeen Gonzalez wrote:

                                                                                                                        > in such a small tank i would change the water at least once a week,
                                                                                                                        > more often if possible.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > the spring water isn't really necessary.  you can use tap water if
                                                                                                                        > you have tap water conditioner
                                                                                                                        > like prime or or amquel +. i use prime and it works great.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > i feed my adf's aquatic frog & tadpole bites by HBH. and i feed my
                                                                                                                        > bettas baby betta bio gold
                                                                                                                        > pellets by hikari.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > hope this helps.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > > Now that we've had so much discussion regarding the video for the
                                                                                                                        > betta tank, I have questions
                                                                                                                        > > regarding the care of a male betta.  My son has a 1.66 gallon
                                                                                                                        > AquaTank Plus (hooded light, air
                                                                                                                        > > pump, undergravel filter system in an acrylic tank).  He wants a
                                                                                                                        > male betta and a African dwarf
                                                                                                                        > > frog.  I have spring water for the tank.  What else do we need to
                                                                                                                        > do?  How often should the
                                                                                                                        > > water be changed?  How much should be changed?
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Thanks for your help.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Angela in Richmond, VA
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        > .
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                                                                                                                        > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                        > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                        > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                        >  
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                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9992 From: valbogert01 Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: 2.5 gallon help
                                                                                                                        I have a 2.5 gal with a filter and hood and light. What can I put in
                                                                                                                        there? Also what would be the best way to clean a small tank like
                                                                                                                        this? Just wanting to get a head start before I kill fish. Val
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9993 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: betta blocks
                                                                                                                            I knew going in I would stir radicals.  I'm making a stand on this one.  This is something I have as strong of a feeling about as the radicals, and they need a check/balance.  For those who want to see what we are talking about, the original link is below: CLICK HERE
                                                                                                                            You are completely misrepresenting the video.  Did you really watch it?  You can't hear the fish hit the gravel, only the water splashing.  Are you making stuff up to take advantage of those who haven't seen the video?  I won't allow you to make up stuff out of your head.  I watched it several times, and I didn't see all these things happen.  It is way too blurry to see much detail, but I didn't see it hit the gravel very hard at all.  It did hit the gravel, but I couldn't tell if it hit it hard or not.  And you can't say how hard it hit either, so quit trying.  It certainly didn't seem to harm the fish too much, it started swimming around as soon as the water was in.  You keep comparing this to a human jumping off stuff.  That just don't work.  This fish was not dropped from 10 inches, it was dropped from 2 inches, because it was flowing out of the funnel into the tank.  It was caught in the flow of water moving toward the gravel, which is nothing like what you are describing.  It is one thing to have an opinion based on truth, or even just based on your view of the truth, but to base it on something that anybody that watches that video knows is not true, that is not a good thing to be doing.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9994 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: 2.5 gallon help
                                                                                                                        i have a 2.5 gallon that's divided to hold 2 male bettas. i think (could be wrong) that you can't
                                                                                                                        really put much more than that in such a small tank. maybe some tetras, although many of those
                                                                                                                        like to school in groups of 6 or more which a 2.5 gallon isn't really large enough for.

                                                                                                                        i use a small vac to suck out waste on the gravel and don't clean the tank beyond that much. when
                                                                                                                        i see stuff on the walls i just use a small acrylic tank brush to clean it. i also do water
                                                                                                                        changes at least once a week.

                                                                                                                        hope this helps.

                                                                                                                        --- valbogert01 <valbogert01@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I have a 2.5 gal with a filter and hood and light. What can I put in
                                                                                                                        > there? Also what would be the best way to clean a small tank like
                                                                                                                        > this? Just wanting to get a head start before I kill fish. Val
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9995 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Birth Patterns of Platties
                                                                                                                        Thanks but my question didn't relate to the dead of the babies or birth defects but the death of the mother fish after giving birth.  And if you put different colors together will they breed not the same color. I did have problems before with birth defects with guppies.  They didn't die they had a curve in the back bone. I was at the pet shop the other day and was surprized at all the specialized colors of male guppies they had.  I was thinking if I bought different colors they would have babies of various colors. Evita

                                                                                                                        FortWayneFish@... wrote:


                                                                                                                        Platties,are so interbred  that birth difects and still births are VERY VERY common. Breeders ,breed there fish for a certain quality usually through line breeding. ( breeding 1 generation to the next )Once you get so many generations into line breeding you develop some issues. Now say you bought 10 platties from the store. The chances are almost 100% that those platties if same color or variety are related.
                                                                                                                        Now you take them home they breed, the brother and sisters grow and they breed, etc etc ...
                                                                                                                        You Trade some to the LFS who in turn sells some to your neighbor now your neighbor lets them breed  ad there off spring breed...  get where I am going?

                                                                                                                        If you could get some NEW Blood into the tank it might help with still births, and birth defects. Temperature also can be an issue. Platties,Mollies and swordtails like warm water above 75*f  If there are to many males 1 male per 3-4 females the females could be getting stressed from harassment.

                                                                                                                        of course mollies will breed with any variety of molly.
                                                                                                                        but did you know swordtails and platties will cross breed?

                                                                                                                        Fish of the same species will cross breed if given a chance. If you don't mind this then keep  the colors you want to keep and enjoy your tank.

                                                                                                                        I think I answered all your questions if you have more ask...  :-)


                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                        Indiana



                                                                                                                        In a message dated 4/4/2005 10:18:52 AM US Eastern Standard Time, evitabug@... writes:



                                                                                                                        I have a question on platties for anyone ...after reading your posts.  I was told by a lady I know after her females gave birth they died.  She emplied this was normal.  She said it happened every time any femal she had gave birth.  I was thinking it is not normal  but stress related.  I have never kept them so I  thought I would post the question here.  I have been considering platties myself and want to learn more about them.  I also have another new-bee question on them.  I know they come in several colors and types as well as the Mollies do.  Can one put several different types and colors together?  Would they mate and cause other variations.Or  should one stick to same color fish when choosing a breed in one tank.  What I mean is, could you keep several colors of that fish, like salt and pepper and gold together?  Evita  





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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9996 From: Nan Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        Evita, Paul, and anyone else interested, here is a website showing
                                                                                                                        where alot of the different Betta species came from:


                                                                                                                        http://www.bettadreams.com/ricepaddies.html

                                                                                                                        and one more:

                                                                                                                        http://groups.msn.com/AdvancedBettas/general.msnw?
                                                                                                                        action=get_message&ID_Message=32836&ShowDelete=0&ID_CLast=32941&CDir=1

                                                                                                                        and they don't eat veggies, they are carnivores and they prefer water
                                                                                                                        that isn't real turbulant. Also, those little blocks are a
                                                                                                                        LOOOONNNGGG way from the rice paddies, streams, rivers, creeks, and
                                                                                                                        lakes that they have originated from. I feel guilty keeping mine in
                                                                                                                        Vases (without the plant on top, they prefer to sit on the banana
                                                                                                                        plant I put IN the vase), but with the breeding program and the
                                                                                                                        amount of Bettas I do have, it is a neccessary evil, however, my
                                                                                                                        Bettas get a weekly 100% water change with
                                                                                                                        dechlorinated/dechlormained water that has a tiny bit of aquarium
                                                                                                                        salt added. However, females do live peacefully, once they get their
                                                                                                                        pecking order down, together. Also, sibs that are raised together I
                                                                                                                        have left together in a 35 gallon until they were 6-9 months old,
                                                                                                                        with few of them fussing.

                                                                                                                        Just wanted to share my experience with you!

                                                                                                                        ~Nan and Crew~
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9997 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        Paul, If you have a 150 gal. tank and buy 50 a week I don't understand how many you can keep in one tank? I hope someday to have a tank that large.  Right now I have two a 20 and and 30 gal.  I am planning on small community fish.  Do you have a really strong filter for so many fish? Evita

                                                                                                                        paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        i do work in a lfs, and goldfish are one of the
                                                                                                                        hardiest fish that there is, but the thing is that
                                                                                                                        many people buy feeder fish to use as pets.  while
                                                                                                                        they are "goldfish" the way that they are handled is
                                                                                                                        very different.  the first issues is that they are
                                                                                                                        young and have not had tons of time to get hardy.  the
                                                                                                                        second issue is that they are shipped 1,000 to a bag.
                                                                                                                        that is  a 1,000 fish polluting a gallon or 2 of water
                                                                                                                        for the full day, which killls a lot of them.  the
                                                                                                                        last issue is taht feeder tanks are not really thaht
                                                                                                                        well maintained in most places as they are food.  if
                                                                                                                        the lfs has a healthy set up, the fish should do fine.
                                                                                                                        ours is 135 gallons, and we get 50 small feeders a
                                                                                                                        week, so there is little loss.  if you stick to
                                                                                                                        orandas, black moors, etc they will do much better as
                                                                                                                        they are treated better.
                                                                                                                        paul
                                                                                                                        --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        > Paul  I just posted back to Steve on the subject as
                                                                                                                        > well and other stuff.  I do ramble and have so many
                                                                                                                        > questions.  Everyone has the baggage they come with
                                                                                                                        > on any particular day with lour lives and stress.  I
                                                                                                                        > think I over reacted.  I just never heard the size
                                                                                                                        > thing in regarding tanks for goldfish.  My fish were
                                                                                                                        > small but growing.  I still think it was related to
                                                                                                                        > not changing the water.  I like many people had the
                                                                                                                        > thought that changing the filter and keeping my
                                                                                                                        > water up to the top was fine.  I even bought my
                                                                                                                        > water from the local pet shop which never told me
                                                                                                                        > otherwise I might add.  I still wonder why they (pet
                                                                                                                        > shops) push goldfish as a the easiest and first tank
                                                                                                                        > fish for kids.  Hardy and almost un-killable.  Then
                                                                                                                        > when they die we think if we can't keep goldfish why
                                                                                                                        > even try to keep anything else.  Then you try after
                                                                                                                        > 5-6 months to get your tanks back up and one of the
                                                                                                                        > earliest posts you read is your fish died because
                                                                                                                        > you should have had a tank 10 times the size you
                                                                                                                        > had. 

                                                                                                                        > I remember the goldfish in the bowl with the daily
                                                                                                                        > water changes straight from the facet and no
                                                                                                                        > additives when I was a kid.  Even today you might
                                                                                                                        > see a bowl on a table in various TV shows as a prop.
                                                                                                                        >  How may times I have seen the theme on a TV where
                                                                                                                        > the goldfish dies and the person that was keeping it
                                                                                                                        > tried to run to the pet-shop to replace it before
                                                                                                                        > the owner gets back and is up set with them.  They
                                                                                                                        > all play out like the whole thing is funny.  I
                                                                                                                        > remember a particular one on Home Improvement.  I
                                                                                                                        > saw it in a re-run a couple months ago.  It bordered
                                                                                                                        > on what I call mean.  The story was one of the boys
                                                                                                                        > was keeping a little girl friends gold fish for the
                                                                                                                        > weekend and it was in a bowl.  The usual in these
                                                                                                                        > stories it started when the first day it died.  He
                                                                                                                        > didn't want to tell her.  He tried everything.  He
                                                                                                                        > even tried to sink it to the bottom by putting a
                                                                                                                        > little metal ball bearing in it's mouth.  It wasn't
                                                                                                                        > funny to me just gross at that point.  He even tries
                                                                                                                        > to find one at the pet shop to
                                                                                                                        >  pass off as her fish.  Like any fish of the same
                                                                                                                        > color would do.  

                                                                                                                        > Anyway I have enjoyed reading all the posts and am
                                                                                                                        > learning a lot.  I just don't have time to answer
                                                                                                                        > them all.  I hope not to offend anyone If I can't
                                                                                                                        > answer right back.  I am so busy. I was at home the
                                                                                                                        > last 12 years with my children when they were small
                                                                                                                        > and have just started back to work outside the home.
                                                                                                                        >  I really miss the freedom of choice with my time I
                                                                                                                        > used to have.  Also I am working hard on my so
                                                                                                                        > called free time little as it is, on my painting for
                                                                                                                        > my church's Bible school coming up really soon.  I
                                                                                                                        > am my church's artist and co. director.  Thanks
                                                                                                                        > again for your post and sorry to ramble.  I have to
                                                                                                                        > get off line now because the local power comp. truck
                                                                                                                        > just drove up to my house and informed me they were
                                                                                                                        > cutting the power for about 3 hours in a minute to
                                                                                                                        > work on it. 
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:the reference
                                                                                                                        > to thirty gallons for an adult goldfish
                                                                                                                        > is for oine that is everal years old, as they do hit
                                                                                                                        > 20 inches or so, so even if you went by the old
                                                                                                                        > generality of 1 inch per gallon, they are close to
                                                                                                                        > correct.  the other reason for so large a tank is
                                                                                                                        > that
                                                                                                                        > goldfish are among the messiest fish around and
                                                                                                                        > could
                                                                                                                        > use the excess water volume to make things easier on
                                                                                                                        > you.  small goldfish should have about 2 gallons for
                                                                                                                        > every in ch, again using generality.  the higher the
                                                                                                                        > quality of your filtration the less volume is
                                                                                                                        > needed,
                                                                                                                        > and the less work you have to do.  likewise, the
                                                                                                                        > larger the volume the more self sufficient the tank
                                                                                                                        > will be.  i hope that your experience with posts get
                                                                                                                        > s
                                                                                                                        > better.
                                                                                                                        > paul
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >            
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9998 From: paul helms Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        sorry about that, it was supposed to be 500 a week.
                                                                                                                        we sell out weekly. i was just saying that many lfs's
                                                                                                                        use 50 gallon tanks with 1,000 feeders in them. i use
                                                                                                                        a 135 gallon with 500, so the fish have a better
                                                                                                                        chance.
                                                                                                                        paul

                                                                                                                        --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        > Paul, If you have a 150 gal. tank and buy 50 a week
                                                                                                                        > I don't understand how many you can keep in one
                                                                                                                        > tank? I hope someday to have a tank that large.
                                                                                                                        > Right now I have two a 20 and and 30 gal. I am
                                                                                                                        > planning on small community fish. Do you have a
                                                                                                                        > really strong filter for so many fish? Evita
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:i do work in
                                                                                                                        > a lfs, and goldfish are one of the
                                                                                                                        > hardiest fish that there is, but the thing is that
                                                                                                                        > many people buy feeder fish to use as pets. while
                                                                                                                        > they are "goldfish" the way that they are handled is
                                                                                                                        > very different. the first issues is that they are
                                                                                                                        > young and have not had tons of time to get hardy.
                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                        > second issue is that they are shipped 1,000 to a
                                                                                                                        > bag.
                                                                                                                        > that is a 1,000 fish polluting a gallon or 2 of
                                                                                                                        > water
                                                                                                                        > for the full day, which killls a lot of them. the
                                                                                                                        > last issue is taht feeder tanks are not really thaht
                                                                                                                        > well maintained in most places as they are food. if
                                                                                                                        > the lfs has a healthy set up, the fish should do
                                                                                                                        > fine.
                                                                                                                        > ours is 135 gallons, and we get 50 small feeders a
                                                                                                                        > week, so there is little loss. if you stick to
                                                                                                                        > orandas, black moors, etc they will do much better
                                                                                                                        > as
                                                                                                                        > they are treated better.
                                                                                                                        > paul
                                                                                                                        > --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Paul I just posted back to Steve on the subject
                                                                                                                        > as
                                                                                                                        > > well and other stuff. I do ramble and have so
                                                                                                                        > many
                                                                                                                        > > questions. Everyone has the baggage they come
                                                                                                                        > with
                                                                                                                        > > on any particular day with lour lives and stress.
                                                                                                                        > I
                                                                                                                        > > think I over reacted. I just never heard the size
                                                                                                                        > > thing in regarding tanks for goldfish. My fish
                                                                                                                        > were
                                                                                                                        > > small but growing. I still think it was related
                                                                                                                        > to
                                                                                                                        > > not changing the water. I like many people had
                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                        > > thought that changing the filter and keeping my
                                                                                                                        > > water up to the top was fine. I even bought my
                                                                                                                        > > water from the local pet shop which never told me
                                                                                                                        > > otherwise I might add. I still wonder why they
                                                                                                                        > (pet
                                                                                                                        > > shops) push goldfish as a the easiest and first
                                                                                                                        > tank
                                                                                                                        > > fish for kids. Hardy and almost un-killable.
                                                                                                                        > Then
                                                                                                                        > > when they die we think if we can't keep goldfish
                                                                                                                        > why
                                                                                                                        > > even try to keep anything else. Then you try
                                                                                                                        > after
                                                                                                                        > > 5-6 months to get your tanks back up and one of
                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                        > > earliest posts you read is your fish died because
                                                                                                                        > > you should have had a tank 10 times the size you
                                                                                                                        > > had.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > I remember the goldfish in the bowl with the daily
                                                                                                                        > > water changes straight from the facet and no
                                                                                                                        > > additives when I was a kid. Even today you might
                                                                                                                        > > see a bowl on a table in various TV shows as a
                                                                                                                        > prop.
                                                                                                                        > > How may times I have seen the theme on a TV where
                                                                                                                        > > the goldfish dies and the person that was keeping
                                                                                                                        > it
                                                                                                                        > > tried to run to the pet-shop to replace it before
                                                                                                                        > > the owner gets back and is up set with them. They
                                                                                                                        > > all play out like the whole thing is funny. I
                                                                                                                        > > remember a particular one on Home Improvement. I
                                                                                                                        > > saw it in a re-run a couple months ago. It
                                                                                                                        > bordered
                                                                                                                        > > on what I call mean. The story was one of the
                                                                                                                        > boys
                                                                                                                        > > was keeping a little girl friends gold fish for
                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                        > > weekend and it was in a bowl. The usual in these
                                                                                                                        > > stories it started when the first day it died. He
                                                                                                                        > > didn't want to tell her. He tried everything. He
                                                                                                                        > > even tried to sink it to the bottom by putting a
                                                                                                                        > > little metal ball bearing in it's mouth. It
                                                                                                                        > wasn't
                                                                                                                        > > funny to me just gross at that point. He even
                                                                                                                        > tries
                                                                                                                        > > to find one at the pet shop to
                                                                                                                        > > pass off as her fish. Like any fish of the same
                                                                                                                        > > color would do.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Anyway I have enjoyed reading all the posts and am
                                                                                                                        > > learning a lot. I just don't have time to answer
                                                                                                                        > > them all. I hope not to offend anyone If I can't
                                                                                                                        > > answer right back. I am so busy. I was at home
                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                        > > last 12 years with my children when they were
                                                                                                                        > small
                                                                                                                        > > and have just started back to work outside the
                                                                                                                        > home.
                                                                                                                        > > I really miss the freedom of choice with my time
                                                                                                                        > I
                                                                                                                        > > used to have. Also I am working hard on my so
                                                                                                                        > > called free time little as it is, on my painting
                                                                                                                        > for
                                                                                                                        > > my church's Bible school coming up really soon. I
                                                                                                                        > > am my church's artist and co. director. Thanks
                                                                                                                        > > again for your post and sorry to ramble. I have
                                                                                                                        > to
                                                                                                                        > > get off line now because the local power comp.
                                                                                                                        > truck
                                                                                                                        > > just drove up to my house and informed me they
                                                                                                                        > were
                                                                                                                        > > cutting the power for about 3 hours in a minute to
                                                                                                                        > > work on it.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:the
                                                                                                                        > reference
                                                                                                                        > > to thirty gallons for an adult goldfish
                                                                                                                        > > is for oine that is everal years old, as they do
                                                                                                                        > hit
                                                                                                                        > > 20 inches or so, so even if you went by the old
                                                                                                                        > > generality of 1 inch per gallon, they are close to
                                                                                                                        > > correct. the other reason for so large a tank is
                                                                                                                        > > that
                                                                                                                        > > goldfish are among the messiest fish around and
                                                                                                                        > > could
                                                                                                                        > > use the excess water volume to make things easier
                                                                                                                        > on
                                                                                                                        > > you. small goldfish should have about 2 gallons
                                                                                                                        > for
                                                                                                                        > > every in ch, again using generality. the higher
                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                        > > quality of your filtration the less volume is
                                                                                                                        > > needed,
                                                                                                                        > > and the less work you have to do. likewise, the
                                                                                                                        > > larger the volume the more self sufficient the
                                                                                                                        > tank
                                                                                                                        > > will be. i hope that your experience with posts
                                                                                                                        > get
                                                                                                                        > > s
                                                                                                                        > > better.
                                                                                                                        > > paul
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                        > > Yahoo! Messenger
                                                                                                                        > > Show us what our next emoticon should look like.
                                                                                                                        > > Join the fun.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > __________________________________
                                                                                                                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
                                                                                                                        > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                        > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                        > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                        > the topic of the original message modify the subject
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 9999 From: paul helms Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        that is what i said....rice paddies. did not say
                                                                                                                        anything about size,just that they hide in amongstthe
                                                                                                                        plants and are not super active. i recommend using 2
                                                                                                                        gallon tanks or larger myself.
                                                                                                                        --- Nan <ntalb00@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Evita, Paul, and anyone else interested, here is a
                                                                                                                        > website showing
                                                                                                                        > where alot of the different Betta species came from:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > http://www.bettadreams.com/ricepaddies.html
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > and one more:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > http://groups.msn.com/AdvancedBettas/general.msnw?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        action=get_message&ID_Message=32836&ShowDelete=0&ID_CLast=32941&CDir=1
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > and they don't eat veggies, they are carnivores and
                                                                                                                        > they prefer water
                                                                                                                        > that isn't real turbulant. Also, those little
                                                                                                                        > blocks are a
                                                                                                                        > LOOOONNNGGG way from the rice paddies, streams,
                                                                                                                        > rivers, creeks, and
                                                                                                                        > lakes that they have originated from. I feel guilty
                                                                                                                        > keeping mine in
                                                                                                                        > Vases (without the plant on top, they prefer to sit
                                                                                                                        > on the banana
                                                                                                                        > plant I put IN the vase), but with the breeding
                                                                                                                        > program and the
                                                                                                                        > amount of Bettas I do have, it is a neccessary evil,
                                                                                                                        > however, my
                                                                                                                        > Bettas get a weekly 100% water change with
                                                                                                                        > dechlorinated/dechlormained water that has a tiny
                                                                                                                        > bit of aquarium
                                                                                                                        > salt added. However, females do live peacefully,
                                                                                                                        > once they get their
                                                                                                                        > pecking order down, together. Also, sibs that are
                                                                                                                        > raised together I
                                                                                                                        > have left together in a 35 gallon until they were
                                                                                                                        > 6-9 months old,
                                                                                                                        > with few of them fussing.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Just wanted to share my experience with you!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > ~Nan and Crew~
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10000 From: paul helms Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: betta blocks
                                                                                                                        king of the overstatment. you may want to read your
                                                                                                                        own posts before finishing them. if the tank was half
                                                                                                                        full, and that is 4 inches, how in the hell did he
                                                                                                                        fall 8-10 inches. taht would be only 4 inches of fall
                                                                                                                        to water. you need to grow up and just take the fact
                                                                                                                        that you are being a drama queen here. you could not
                                                                                                                        hear a 1/2 oz fish hit gravel through a glass block.
                                                                                                                        --- Kyle Osterholt <snakeskinnerkyle@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > it's amazing how out of context all these mailing
                                                                                                                        > lists get. First off, the splenden's "nastiness"
                                                                                                                        > comment was to their temperament to eachother and
                                                                                                                        > many times other tankmates. All 4 of my bettas
                                                                                                                        > through the years killed their tankmates. It is a
                                                                                                                        > known fact they kill eachother and is why they are
                                                                                                                        > kept in small cups in the store. My comment was not
                                                                                                                        > to trash the fish, it was to complement the other
                                                                                                                        > bettas I was talking about who are not this way.
                                                                                                                        > Now for the betta hitting the bottom of the tank: I
                                                                                                                        > take it you didn't watch the video. The betta was
                                                                                                                        > not simply dropped into the water, I know the fish
                                                                                                                        > wouldn't necessarily be injured in this procedure.
                                                                                                                        > BUT, had you watched the video, the betta was poured
                                                                                                                        > into the glass block along with the water. there
                                                                                                                        > was only 1/2 of the cube full of water, maybe 3-4"
                                                                                                                        > of water, the betta was poured into the tank with
                                                                                                                        > the force of the other half of the water on TOP of
                                                                                                                        > the fish forcing it into the gravel. You can hear
                                                                                                                        > the betta CRASH into the gravel
                                                                                                                        > on the video camera across the room. Now, tell me
                                                                                                                        > what you just told me AFTER you watch the video and
                                                                                                                        > listen to the sound. I'm not arguing physics so get
                                                                                                                        > off your high horse, I'm talking plain english with
                                                                                                                        > a comment using an example. I'm not going to
                                                                                                                        > measure the actual force exerted on the fish
                                                                                                                        > impacting the gravel, point made was it wasn't
                                                                                                                        > pleasant and you wouldn't want the same thing to
                                                                                                                        > happen to you. OK, here's another example for you
                                                                                                                        > to ponder your science on. Jump off a waterfall
                                                                                                                        > with rocks below and slam your head into the rocks
                                                                                                                        > below and see how you like it. to put that in
                                                                                                                        > scale, the 3" fish falling from 8-10" hitting gravel
                                                                                                                        > in 4" of water should put a 6' man jumping off a
                                                                                                                        > 18-20' or approximate tall waterfall into about 7'
                                                                                                                        > of water...something like that anyway. You'd also
                                                                                                                        > need to calculate the gpm of water falling behind
                                                                                                                        > you but I've got better things to do.....
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10001 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                        Paul, Thanks I always wondered and that is so interesting.  I have never seen Betta tanks only the ones that are in cups at the pet shops.  I was in a shop the other day and it wasn't kept well.  There was this lady in the shop and we got to talking.  She said that several people had been complaining about the shop and there had been editorials in the paper I think she said the ask Sam articles where people had written in complaining about how the various animals were kept or maintained.  She had a pocket camera with her and was trying to take some photo's of the Betta's.  The pet shop worker told here she couldn't take photo's in the shop.  I thought that they might call the law on her.  They had the Betta's in bags with the tiniest amount of water in it.  I usually see them in cups.  The problem was not just the amount of water but the fact that some of the fish bags were on their sides leaving almost no water covering the fish at all.  By the way their fish tanks were dirty and they had mostly dead and dying fish.  The workers just sit and take the money.  I don't think anyone really works with care of the animals.  In our area they don't have any real laws protecting pet-shop animals.  They say food shelter is all they need.  Sad.  Oh I would never buy fish there.  I think the only way to get these places is don't buy anything.  They have to have money to stay open. Thanks again for answering my quetions. Evita

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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10002 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                        Ron,  I never realized they could live so long.  I saw a show once on this guy that was a collector.  I think he flew to Japan to buy this rare fish.  I think he got it cheap because it had something wrong with it...a growth or something.  It still cost about 6,000.  I think he had surgery done on it and it was fine.  He had all these out door ponds all over his property.  Evita

                                                                                                                         


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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10003 From: Aaron Martin Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                        Subject: Fw: Re: File - Welcome
                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                          From: "Gords Lim"
                                                                                                                          To: "AquaticLife Moderator"
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: File - Welcome
                                                                                                                          Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:23:21 +0100 (BST)






                                                                                                                          Aaron R. Martin, cmt
                                                                                                                          

                                                                                                                          Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)



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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10004 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                              I am not sure if it is illegal to take pictures in a store that is opened to the public, and if it is, I'm not sure if it would be upheld because of several court cases involving what is and isn't proper.  I know that it is legal for cops to take pictures from anywhere that is open to the public, even if they are taking those pictures from the air and the camera is pointed at private or restricted property.  Perhaps the person should look for a high quality camera and take pictures from the side walk while somebody opens the door?
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                          She had a pocket camera with her and was trying to take some photo's of the Betta's.  The pet shop worker told here she couldn't take photo's in the shop.  I thought that they might call the law on her.  They had the Betta's in bags with the tiniest amount of water in it.  I usually see them in cups.  The problem was not just the amount of water but the fact that some of the fish bags were on their sides leaving almost no water covering the fish at all.  By the way their fish tanks were dirty and they had mostly dead and dying fish.  The workers just sit and take the money.  I don't think anyone really works with care of the animals.  In our area they don't have any real laws protecting pet-shop animals.  They say food shelter is all they need.  Sad.  Oh I would never buy fish there.  I think the only way to get these places is don't buy anything.  They have to have money to stay open. Thanks again for answering my quetions. Evita
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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10005 From: Khamul King Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Betta Care
                                                                                                                          I seriously suggest you put the betta and the frog in separate holding areas.  With so little water, the fish and the frog will kill each other with their wastes.  And besides, I dont know how the betta will react to the frog.  i think bettas only or at least prefer to challange other red or blue colored things.


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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10006 From: Khamul King Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Got a fish food Q
                                                                                                                          They probably put it in for plecos or other bottom dwellers that thrive on plant food.


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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10007 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                          In a message dated 4/4/2005 5:17:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, patrickmn1@... writes:
                                                                                                                          I am not sure if it is illegal to take pictures in a store that is opened to the public, and if it is, I'm not sure if it would be upheld because of several court cases involving what is and isn't proper. 
                                                                                                                          How about if it is clearly posted in the store or entry to the store?
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          Mike
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10008 From: Khamul King Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: new with questions

                                                                                                                          Hey Patricia,

                                                                                                                          Old Water: The best thing to do with water is to let it settle for about a week before introducing fish.  This should be enough time to let the water grow good scum.  Thats right, scum.  In time, at least a week, your gravel, the glass of the tank, even decorations and your filtration device will grow beneficial bacteria that fixes ammonia into nitrates.  Ammonia builds up when the fish start polluting your water with their waste.  So if you want healthy fish, put in a few at first 1 or 2, and then slowly add a few afterwards.

                                                                                                                          Plants:  Low, medium, high light?  What wattages are these?
                                                                                                                          I use a 17W flourescent light tube.  This I found is really good for plants. If you have no plants, then any wattage is good, just as long as you like what it looks like.

                                                                                                                          Feeding: Just what the fish will consume in 3 or 5 minutes--

                                                                                                                          Thats a thing you have to learn on your own.  Its trial and error.  If it looks like a food blizzard, its too much, if there is no food left in about a minute, its too little.


                                                                                                                          Ok. but how do I insure that the bottom feeders--khuli loaches &
                                                                                                                          corys--are receiving enough food?  You can add some lettuce, Im not familiar with khuli, but the others love plants.  They also sell little food pellets that sink straight to the bottom for bottom feeders.  I also like to put in some sea shells so that they get a little calcium when scraping the algea off these shells.


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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10009 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Poll results for AquaticLife
                                                                                                                          The following AquaticLife poll is now closed. Here are the
                                                                                                                          final results:


                                                                                                                          POLL QUESTION: Yahoo! Groups has a new look!

                                                                                                                          What is your opinion about the changes?

                                                                                                                          CHOICES AND RESULTS
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                                                                                                                          - 5), 3 votes, 12.50%
                                                                                                                          - 6), 0 votes, 0.00%
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                                                                                                                          - 9), 1 votes, 4.17%
                                                                                                                          - 10) Hate it!, 2 votes, 8.33%
                                                                                                                          - don't care, 2 votes, 8.33%
                                                                                                                          - Yahoo! Should have run a BETA version to allow members to try it out and give feedback before switching., 7 votes, 29.17%
                                                                                                                          - other - please post, 1 votes, 4.17%



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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10010 From: paul helms Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Betta Care
                                                                                                                          color has nothing to do with it. they generally only
                                                                                                                          go after things with long fins, and things that nip at
                                                                                                                          them first. i have 2 af frogs, 1 oto cat, 1 betta,
                                                                                                                          and 1 mystery snail living very happily together in a
                                                                                                                          3 gallon eclipse.
                                                                                                                          --- Khamul King <khamul1of9@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > I seriously suggest you put the betta and the frog
                                                                                                                          > in separate holding areas. With so little water,
                                                                                                                          > the fish and the frog will kill each other with
                                                                                                                          > their wastes. And besides, I dont know how the
                                                                                                                          > betta will react to the frog. i think bettas only
                                                                                                                          > or at least prefer to challange other red or blue
                                                                                                                          > colored things.
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10011 From: paul helms Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                          it is not illegal to take pics unless posted or
                                                                                                                          warned. oince a store warns you to not take pics,
                                                                                                                          they are legally justified in seizing the film from
                                                                                                                          the camera. learned that in old navy. they do not
                                                                                                                          wanttheir displays copied, and have security personnel
                                                                                                                          in large stores, like seattle to confiscate film.
                                                                                                                          same is true in nevada and california. you can't be
                                                                                                                          arrested for photography, but your film can be taken
                                                                                                                          and you can be evicted.
                                                                                                                          paul
                                                                                                                          --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                          <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > I am not sure if it is illegal to take pictures
                                                                                                                          > in a store that is
                                                                                                                          > opened to the public, and if it is, I'm not sure if
                                                                                                                          > it would be upheld
                                                                                                                          > because of several court cases involving what is and
                                                                                                                          > isn't proper. I know
                                                                                                                          > that it is legal for cops to take pictures from
                                                                                                                          > anywhere that is open to the
                                                                                                                          > public, even if they are taking those pictures from
                                                                                                                          > the air and the camera
                                                                                                                          > is pointed at private or restricted property.
                                                                                                                          > Perhaps the person should
                                                                                                                          > look for a high quality camera and take pictures
                                                                                                                          > from the side walk while
                                                                                                                          > somebody opens the door?
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                          > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                          > She had a pocket camera with her and was trying to
                                                                                                                          > take some photo's of the Betta's. The pet shop
                                                                                                                          > worker told here she couldn't take photo's in the
                                                                                                                          > shop. I thought that they might call the law on
                                                                                                                          > her. They had the Betta's in bags with the tiniest
                                                                                                                          > amount of water in it. I usually see them in cups.
                                                                                                                          > The problem was not just the amount of water but the
                                                                                                                          > fact that some of the fish bags were on their sides
                                                                                                                          > leaving almost no water covering the fish at all.
                                                                                                                          > By the way their fish tanks were dirty and they had
                                                                                                                          > mostly dead and dying fish. The workers just sit
                                                                                                                          > and take the money. I don't think anyone really
                                                                                                                          > works with care of the animals. In our area they
                                                                                                                          > don't have any real laws protecting pet-shop
                                                                                                                          > animals. They say food shelter is all they need.
                                                                                                                          > Sad. Oh I would never buy fish there. I think the
                                                                                                                          > only way to get these places is don't buy anything.
                                                                                                                          > They have to have money to stay open. Thanks again
                                                                                                                          > for answering my quetions. Evita



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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10012 From: paul helms Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Re Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                          the bags that you refer to are whatthey are shipped
                                                                                                                          in. by the time a store recieves them they have been
                                                                                                                          in them at least a week. the bag is filled with pure
                                                                                                                          oxygen, enough for up to 3 weeks. the amount of water
                                                                                                                          is not that important as they just need to be wet and
                                                                                                                          have the 02 to breath. while i agree that it is not
                                                                                                                          cool to ship them this way, thath is how it is done,
                                                                                                                          and why cups are not that bad when you think about it.
                                                                                                                          a cup will have at least 4 oz of water, and they are
                                                                                                                          shipped in 1/2 oz.
                                                                                                                          paul
                                                                                                                          --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > Paul, Thanks I always wondered and that is so
                                                                                                                          > interesting. I have never seen Betta tanks only the
                                                                                                                          > ones that are in cups at the pet shops. I was in a
                                                                                                                          > shop the other day and it wasn't kept well. There
                                                                                                                          > was this lady in the shop and we got to talking.
                                                                                                                          > She said that several people had been complaining
                                                                                                                          > about the shop and there had been editorials in the
                                                                                                                          > paper I think she said the ask Sam articles where
                                                                                                                          > people had written in complaining about how the
                                                                                                                          > various animals were kept or maintained. She had a
                                                                                                                          > pocket camera with her and was trying to take some
                                                                                                                          > photo's of the Betta's. The pet shop worker told
                                                                                                                          > here she couldn't take photo's in the shop. I
                                                                                                                          > thought that they might call the law on her. They
                                                                                                                          > had the Betta's in bags with the tiniest amount of
                                                                                                                          > water in it. I usually see them in cups. The
                                                                                                                          > problem was not just the amount of water but the
                                                                                                                          > fact that some of the fish bags were on their sides
                                                                                                                          > leaving almost no water covering the fish at all.
                                                                                                                          > By the way their fish tanks were dirty and
                                                                                                                          > they had mostly dead and dying fish. The workers
                                                                                                                          > just sit and take the money. I don't think anyone
                                                                                                                          > really works with care of the animals. In our area
                                                                                                                          > they don't have any real laws protecting pet-shop
                                                                                                                          > animals. They say food shelter is all they need.
                                                                                                                          > Sad. Oh I would never buy fish there. I think the
                                                                                                                          > only way to get these places is don't buy anything.
                                                                                                                          > They have to have money to stay open. Thanks again
                                                                                                                          > for answering my quetions. Evita
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10013 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                              Sure, they can easily remove you from the store or deny service.  That's why I suggested taking them from a sidewalk if possible. 
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                          How about if it is clearly posted in the store or entry to the store?
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          Mike
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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10014 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                          Evita,

                                                                                                                          You do not have to tell me about work! I leave shortly after 7 AM, and get
                                                                                                                          home when I am done. At 6 PM, whether I am done with my day job or not, I go
                                                                                                                          on call for another company. Normally, I just handle everything over the
                                                                                                                          phone, and if someone is needed on site, I call someone else to go out there
                                                                                                                          (I am too expensive for them otherwise), but, upon occasion, I have to go,
                                                                                                                          usually late at night. I am also on call for them over the weekend. This
                                                                                                                          workload is unpredictable.

                                                                                                                          Anyhow, back to fish. While I have not yet checked another list, the
                                                                                                                          discussion on the one inch rule is ongoing, with some interesting sidelines.
                                                                                                                          You brought up your grandmother (mine also kept fish). You mention about her
                                                                                                                          goldfish in the pond and then in a tank, and ho it seemed she did nothing
                                                                                                                          special. This may well be true. One of the people on the other list was
                                                                                                                          recounting how he used to be able to set up a tank, and throw (so to speak)
                                                                                                                          the fish in and go. I used to be able to do this also. It seems very hard to
                                                                                                                          accomplish this these days, and have the fish survive. One of the things he
                                                                                                                          mentioned, about them olden days, was that the money was tight, and one
                                                                                                                          could not afford to add more than one or two fish at a time. Thinking about
                                                                                                                          it, this was my situation also. Having it stew in my unconscious all day, I
                                                                                                                          also wonder about the water we use today, and all the chemical additives
                                                                                                                          that are now used by municipal water companies. Another factor may be that
                                                                                                                          the fish are just not as they used to be--there is not enough breeding of
                                                                                                                          wild stock with aquarium stock, and the strains have weakened as a result,
                                                                                                                          making the fish more sensitive to environmental factors as well as disease.

                                                                                                                          Some here may remember the angel plague that occurred in, when was it, the
                                                                                                                          70's?. Angel fish would just keel over and die at a young age. You could not
                                                                                                                          get an angelfish for love or money. Since then I have not seen any domestic
                                                                                                                          angles with the robustness and size they used to have. When was the last
                                                                                                                          time anyone here saw and angel that measured 8" from snout to caudal
                                                                                                                          peduncle (the point where the tail fin begins) and 12 inches from the tip of
                                                                                                                          the dorsal to the tip of the anal fin?

                                                                                                                          Well, back to your question about cycling in particular. You need to find
                                                                                                                          some plain ammonia. No soap, no scents added to it. Add enough to your tank
                                                                                                                          to bring your reading up to 5 ppm on your test kit. Check the ammonia each
                                                                                                                          day and add enough to reach the 5 ppm reading. The amount you need to add
                                                                                                                          each day should increase as the bacteria multiply to handle it, and soon you
                                                                                                                          will be back to adding the amount you started with. Keep an eye on your
                                                                                                                          nitrites and nitrates. You'll see the nitrite spike, and when this spike
                                                                                                                          goes down to 0, you can stop adding the ammonia, and start adding fish.

                                                                                                                          As for the temperature, room temperature will certainly affect the water
                                                                                                                          temperature. If the room is constantly going to the higher end of your
                                                                                                                          scale, the water will follow. If it goes over, so will the water
                                                                                                                          temperature. So, the room would be at its coolest in the morning, this is
                                                                                                                          when you should be setting your thermostat to attain the desired
                                                                                                                          temperature. You will eventually get it.

                                                                                                                          \\Steve//

                                                                                                                          ________________________________

                                                                                                                          From: Evita [mailto:evitabug@...]
                                                                                                                          Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 11:44 AM
                                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can
                                                                                                                          get!



                                                                                                                          Steve, I know your intentions were good it just hit me how you said it. I
                                                                                                                          had 5 feeder gold fish and thought we were saving them from being eaten. I
                                                                                                                          guess in a way they lived longer than they would have if they had been
                                                                                                                          bought as food. I am at a lost though as far as fish why if they are so
                                                                                                                          hard to keep why to pet shop call them the easy fish and push them on
                                                                                                                          parents with small kids for their first set-up and say they are the hardiest
                                                                                                                          you can get. Then set us up for disappointment when they die like that. I
                                                                                                                          was told the smaller the tank the slower the growth. When I was a kid my
                                                                                                                          grandmother had gold-fish in a small cement type outdoor pond as well as a
                                                                                                                          tank inside of about 20 gals. She never had any problems. I guess that was
                                                                                                                          about 35 years ago. Her outside pond was in the garden and my fondest
                                                                                                                          memories of visiting her on the weekends was feeding them. She usually just
                                                                                                                          gave a a piece of bread and said go feed the fish. As far as the Betta
                                                                                                                          comment it was not based on your post but tons of stuff I had been reading
                                                                                                                          in various other groups. I wonder about the Betta's too. I wonder why they
                                                                                                                          tend to be kept in so little space and are said to be happy? Of course I
                                                                                                                          guess one should saw comfortable and not stress instead of happy. How can
                                                                                                                          we know that? Who knows they might be thinking they are comfortable but boy
                                                                                                                          they wish they had a bigger place. Heck I live in a small house and I would
                                                                                                                          jump if I could have a bigger house....Sorry if I was a bit testy. I am
                                                                                                                          really stress out myself right now and my job is such that I never get two
                                                                                                                          days off in a row and work evening and get home late. Sometimes like this
                                                                                                                          week I work 7 days in a row and then have one day off. This is my day thank
                                                                                                                          goodness. I also have 4 kids and a pretty critical type husband. I tend to
                                                                                                                          get stressed. I guess that is why I am so into my pets as well as this
                                                                                                                          whole tank and fish thing. Even though I don't have any fish yet I have
                                                                                                                          loved sitting on the couch looking at the new tank. I really love the
                                                                                                                          set-up. Every night I fall asleep with a book in my hand. I am studying
                                                                                                                          all I can. I am having a really hard time deciding between types, colors
                                                                                                                          and various sizes as well as the ph and what not. But I am in no hurry
                                                                                                                          either. I have no idea what ones I will decide on even know only a vague
                                                                                                                          idea. I really appreciate reading all the posts about other people and what
                                                                                                                          they are doing too.

                                                                                                                          I turned down my tanks water heaters last night. I am trying to get them to
                                                                                                                          level out between 73-75. Is that OK? Right now they are 76-78. My room
                                                                                                                          temp has been really varied here lately. In the mornings it it cold and
                                                                                                                          during the day it can be hot for spring.

                                                                                                                          Also about the ammonia thing. I didn't know I was told to add anything. I
                                                                                                                          only just added treated tap water. No ammonia, no fish to cycle and no
                                                                                                                          other additives. Should I get a small cup of a friends tank to add to both
                                                                                                                          my tanks to get the ammonia up? Does the sample need to be off the filter
                                                                                                                          or just scoop some water out of the tank?

                                                                                                                          Sorry again for being testy. Sometimes though newbies can be sensitive and
                                                                                                                          all should keep that in mind... It also is hard to understand the
                                                                                                                          inflection of people in writing vs. say eye to eye. I have been
                                                                                                                          misunderstood more than a few times on that. Also this is too busy for me
                                                                                                                          to answer all posts though I have been reading everyone. Thanks again,
                                                                                                                          Evita


                                                                                                                          Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                          Evita,

                                                                                                                          What I said was that an ADULT goldfish needs about 30 gallons of
                                                                                                                          water to
                                                                                                                          live well. This would imply that younger goldfish can get by with
                                                                                                                          less. In
                                                                                                                          fact, many people start fish out in a smaller tank, and move them to
                                                                                                                          larger
                                                                                                                          quarters as they grow. I did not mention, in my reply, the
                                                                                                                          requirements of a
                                                                                                                          betta in any way, but since you brought it up, an adult _Betta
                                                                                                                          splendens_,
                                                                                                                          commonly known as betta, can do well in a lesser volume of water,
                                                                                                                          though I
                                                                                                                          would hesitate to recommend less than 2 quarts.

                                                                                                                          You are probably referring to the 1" of fish per gallon myth when
                                                                                                                          you say,
                                                                                                                          "They were way under the limit as far as inches.". This has been
                                                                                                                          around for
                                                                                                                          a long time, and certainly pre-dates my involvement in the hobby
                                                                                                                          mumblty-mumblty years ago. While I was thinking about this, I posted
                                                                                                                          to
                                                                                                                          another list that may have members who know at least some of the
                                                                                                                          history of
                                                                                                                          this "golden rule". The number of fish that can be placed in a given
                                                                                                                          quantity of water depends more on the physiology and biology of the
                                                                                                                          fish
                                                                                                                          than any hard and fast rule about fish size. Probably the most
                                                                                                                          unfortunate
                                                                                                                          aspect of this rule is that, in certain cases, it does work.

                                                                                                                          People who are goldfish keepers do, indeed, give them the space they
                                                                                                                          need.
                                                                                                                          The price you quote for a 150 gallon tank does seem to be a bit on
                                                                                                                          the high
                                                                                                                          side, but probably within reason. It has been a while since I have
                                                                                                                          shopped
                                                                                                                          for tanks, and a quick look at a couple of sites did not give me a
                                                                                                                          real good
                                                                                                                          feel for the market price, though glasscages.com quotes a price of
                                                                                                                          $345 with
                                                                                                                          a pickup off the truck at one of the shows they will be at. They are
                                                                                                                          the low
                                                                                                                          end.

                                                                                                                          Working long hours can certainly be a drag. I have a ton of comp
                                                                                                                          time built
                                                                                                                          up, and I hope that your boss is not like mine, who says to take the
                                                                                                                          day
                                                                                                                          off, then calls me in to a job or two because he has no one else to
                                                                                                                          handle
                                                                                                                          them (we are talking skill sets here, not personnel shortage). By
                                                                                                                          the time
                                                                                                                          the weekend rolls around, I may have a few hundred messages to go
                                                                                                                          through,
                                                                                                                          not counting the spam. I also am on call for another company for
                                                                                                                          tech
                                                                                                                          support during evenings and on weekends.

                                                                                                                          Adjusting your temperature: Back off on the thermostat, perhaps a
                                                                                                                          half turn
                                                                                                                          or a full turn, and let the water reach room temperature. Then turn
                                                                                                                          the
                                                                                                                          thermostat up just until the light comes on. Wait a day and check
                                                                                                                          the
                                                                                                                          temperature, if it is still not up to what you would like, repeat
                                                                                                                          until you
                                                                                                                          reach the desired temperature.

                                                                                                                          With regard to your cycling the tank, are you still adding ammonia
                                                                                                                          to the
                                                                                                                          tank? The addition of ammonia should continue until the cycle is
                                                                                                                          established
                                                                                                                          and fish are added. You should see an immediate increase in the
                                                                                                                          ammonia,
                                                                                                                          with it reaching zero by the time for the next dose. Failure to
                                                                                                                          continue the
                                                                                                                          ammonia additions would result in a loss of the bacteria that
                                                                                                                          utilize it,
                                                                                                                          with some going into hibernation, and others dieing.

                                                                                                                          ________________________________

                                                                                                                          From: Evita [mailto:evitabug@...]
                                                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 7:15 AM
                                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Want to do it right! Need all the
                                                                                                                          help I can
                                                                                                                          get!


                                                                                                                          Steve, excuse me. Are you saying that one needs a pool basically to
                                                                                                                          keep a
                                                                                                                          goldfish and a cup to keep a Beta? My fish were very tiny....Now I
                                                                                                                          am just
                                                                                                                          plain flabber gasted. I feel like you are attacking me some how. I
                                                                                                                          am
                                                                                                                          wondering if anyone in the group keeps goldfish. I didn't have a
                                                                                                                          bowl I had
                                                                                                                          a 20 gal tank. They were way under the limit as far as inches. My
                                                                                                                          problem
                                                                                                                          was I wasn't aware of the water changes needed. Most people start
                                                                                                                          with
                                                                                                                          goldfish thinking they are easy ...I never heard someone say get a
                                                                                                                          30 gal
                                                                                                                          tank and put one 2.00 goldfish in it and never add anymore. Now
                                                                                                                          around here
                                                                                                                          a 150 gal. tank would run you about 500.00 plus. If they are that
                                                                                                                          hard to
                                                                                                                          keep why would anyone keep them? I realize you are trying to help
                                                                                                                          but...

                                                                                                                          I have been working a ton lately and have barely had time to read
                                                                                                                          all my new
                                                                                                                          mail must less answer it. For that I am really sorry. I had no
                                                                                                                          idea how
                                                                                                                          much and many comments I would get. Oh, yesterday I was able to
                                                                                                                          buy some
                                                                                                                          books off of a friend. Beginner type books she no longer needed and
                                                                                                                          it is
                                                                                                                          proving to be very helpful as well. I haven't had time to post them
                                                                                                                          as of
                                                                                                                          yet but these are my numbers for yesterday. This is day four of my
                                                                                                                          tanks
                                                                                                                          being filled with water. I posted this insert in another group. My
                                                                                                                          tanks
                                                                                                                          are still clear and I am trying to get the heat settings at about
                                                                                                                          72-75.
                                                                                                                          This is hit and miss for me right now. I have them at 78 right now.
                                                                                                                          Thanks
                                                                                                                          again in advance.

                                                                                                                          I filled my
                                                                                                                          tanks up at the same time 3 days ago. I added decloriner and I am
                                                                                                                          just letting them sit as of know to let it cycle. I tested the water
                                                                                                                          this morning on both tanks and not surprizenly they are the same.
                                                                                                                          Here are my staits as they were:

                                                                                                                          Nitrate- 20 on the chart says OK, Nitrite between 0- .5 Middle
                                                                                                                          between caution and safe I am saying around 2.5 range, My hardness
                                                                                                                          is 75 which they call soft, The Alkalinity is at 40 which it says
                                                                                                                          good, and my ph is 6.8.


                                                                                                                          I am planning a water change possibly in a week. Which is the best
                                                                                                                          time to do a non-fish water change. Do I need to see my numbers go
                                                                                                                          up first since I have no fish as of yet? I am trying to get the
                                                                                                                          tanks suitable to add my first few fish and add other fish slowly. I
                                                                                                                          was told by the pet-shop I could add fish in a week ...two weeks to
                                                                                                                          be safe, but I have read with starting up it is best to do at least
                                                                                                                          a
                                                                                                                          30 day non-fish cycle before adding fish. The pet-shops really don't
                                                                                                                          care because if the fish die they just sell you more. It isn't in
                                                                                                                          their interest to prevent fish deaths. I don't want to kill fish to
                                                                                                                          find out if my tanks are ready. I would rather be safe than sorry.

                                                                                                                          Sorry so long. I have one more silly question
                                                                                                                          that bugs me on the subject of the number of fish to keep for the
                                                                                                                          water gal of the tank. They say so many inches of fish but that the
                                                                                                                          size isn't a factor. I was thinking community fish platies and
                                                                                                                          guppies to start. I thought of Mollies and have sore of changed my
                                                                                                                          mind a bit on them. But in regards to the platies and guppies, why
                                                                                                                          do they count the same in length even though guppies seem so much
                                                                                                                          smaller. For my 30 gal they said no more than 15 fish or guppies
                                                                                                                          size in that range. The guppies are so small, at 15 guppies you
                                                                                                                          might hardly see or notice them at all. The larger in size but the
                                                                                                                          same in length platies would make the tank look much fuller. So why
                                                                                                                          are they counted the same. What about those (SORRY FORGOT THE NAME}
                                                                                                                          long snake like skinny fish that stay on the bottom. They a really
                                                                                                                          small but at the same time about 4 inches long. I thought one also
                                                                                                                          took into consideration where the fish feed and live like bottom,
                                                                                                                          middle and top as well as being bigger in size not just head to tail
                                                                                                                          length.

                                                                                                                          Anyway look forward to any and all comments for new-bees. Thanks,
                                                                                                                          Hope I am not to chatty....I tend to be that way. Evita



                                                                                                                          Evita

                                                                                                                          Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                          FWIW, a goldfish should live 20+ years. An adult goldfish
                                                                                                                          should
                                                                                                                          have a
                                                                                                                          minimum of 30 gallons of water per fish--for your 5, you
                                                                                                                          should have
                                                                                                                          had a
                                                                                                                          tank of 120-150 gallons.

                                                                                                                          Goldfish are messy fish. They produce a lot of waste. Someone
                                                                                                                          mentioned
                                                                                                                          earlier cleaning the filter once a month--bad idea. Especially
                                                                                                                          for
                                                                                                                          fish like
                                                                                                                          goldfish, a filter should be serviced at least once a week, or
                                                                                                                          when
                                                                                                                          the flow
                                                                                                                          of water slows.

                                                                                                                          If you are going to start with more tropical fish now, read up
                                                                                                                          about
                                                                                                                          them.
                                                                                                                          Probably time to get a good book to go along with the stuff
                                                                                                                          you pull
                                                                                                                          off the
                                                                                                                          Internet. I recommend the Baench _Aquarium Atlas_ as a good
                                                                                                                          book for
                                                                                                                          those
                                                                                                                          who are starting and want to do things right. Get Volume 1,
                                                                                                                          and
                                                                                                                          don't worry
                                                                                                                          about the other volumes for know. It has a good section on
                                                                                                                          setting
                                                                                                                          up and
                                                                                                                          maintaining an aquarium. It has a short, but good, section on
                                                                                                                          live
                                                                                                                          plants,
                                                                                                                          and, of course, lots and lots of fish.

                                                                                                                          Guppies can easily be kept at room temperature, 68-72^o F.+.
                                                                                                                          Platies, as I
                                                                                                                          recollect, would be the same. despite their reputation as a
                                                                                                                          "beginner's"
                                                                                                                          fish, mollies really are not, and I'd not recommend them for
                                                                                                                          one who
                                                                                                                          is just
                                                                                                                          learning how to do things right.

                                                                                                                          I'd probably throw in a couple of cory catfish to go with the
                                                                                                                          guppies and
                                                                                                                          platies. They are relatively hardy, and pH is not critical for
                                                                                                                          them,
                                                                                                                          though
                                                                                                                          they tend to come from waters that are sub 7.0 pH, while the
                                                                                                                          guppies
                                                                                                                          and
                                                                                                                          platies are found inters that are more than 7.0 pH.

                                                                                                                          The guppies will stay, pretty much, in the top third of the
                                                                                                                          tank.
                                                                                                                          The
                                                                                                                          platies will also spend a lot of time in the top third of the
                                                                                                                          tank.
                                                                                                                          The
                                                                                                                          catfish you chose will mainly stay in the bottom third of the
                                                                                                                          tank.
                                                                                                                          You will
                                                                                                                          probably want to get a fish that will spend time in the middle
                                                                                                                          third
                                                                                                                          of the
                                                                                                                          tank.



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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10015 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Huge international betta show in Brisbane
                                                                                                                          from the website it says:

                                                                                                                          Brisbane Convetion Centre (15-16th April) Queensland Australia


                                                                                                                          Thanks

                                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bettamuse" <bettamuse@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > -
                                                                                                                          > If you go to The Australian Betta Board
                                                                                                                          > http://pub35.ezboard.com/btheaustralianbettaboard.
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10016 From: Gords Lim Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Help needed..Sick Guppies
                                                                                                                          Hi everyone!
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          I'm Gords and I have a 10gal. with several snakeskin guppies. I need help urgently because for the pass few days I noticed that some of the guppies are turning darker (black) in color, both their body and eyes, and their rear tail started drooping. Since yesterday, some of them died already. I don't know what the cause is and how to cure them. Does anyone know what their disease is and how to treat them?
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          Thanks.


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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10017 From: Khamul King Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Betta Care
                                                                                                                          i disagree, and agree.  Shape has alot to do with it.  I did these experiments myself in animal behavior class.  Time and time again, the bettas displayed agressive behavior at roundish red or blue shapes.  Anything round or with lots of fins not blue, black, or red (or anything around that color) would not aggitate the fish.
                                                                                                                          Ofcourse anyone built with a bad temper would go after someone who started it first.

                                                                                                                          paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          color has nothing to do with it.  they generally only
                                                                                                                          go after things with long fins, and things that nip at
                                                                                                                          them first.  i have 2 af frogs, 1 oto cat, 1 betta,
                                                                                                                          and 1 mystery snail living very happily together in a
                                                                                                                          3 gallon eclipse.
                                                                                                                          --- Khamul King <khamul1of9@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > I seriously suggest you put the betta and the frog
                                                                                                                          > in separate holding areas.  With so little water,
                                                                                                                          > the fish and the frog will kill each other with
                                                                                                                          > their wastes.  And besides, I dont know how the
                                                                                                                          > betta will react to the frog.  i think bettas only
                                                                                                                          > or at least prefer to challange other red or blue
                                                                                                                          > colored things.
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >            
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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10018 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                          Patrick,  She told the sales person that she wouldn't have a problem with her taking photo's if the shop was in order.  She was upset because she was taking photo's of abuse.  I think she was right.  I have never seen any store that said on the front door no photos can be taken. The way this store is it is a narrow long store.  All the animals are in the back almost tucked away in the back.  All the stuff like tanks and dog toys are at the front.  There is no way to take photos but to come in and go to the back of the store.  The tanks are awful.  Evita

                                                                                                                          "Patrick, American Fish Guy" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                              I am not sure if it is illegal to take pictures in a store that is opened to the public, and if it is, I'm not sure if it would be upheld because of several court cases involving what is and isn't proper.  I know that it is legal for cops to take pictures from anywhere that is open to the public, even if they are taking those pictures from the air and the camera is pointed at private or restricted property.  Perhaps the person should look for a high quality camera and take pictures from the side walk while somebody opens the door?
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                          She had a pocket camera with her and was trying to take some photo's of the Betta's.  The pet shop worker told here she couldn't take photo's in the shop.  I thought that they might call the law on her.  They had the Betta's in bags with the tiniest amount of water in it.  I usually see them in cups.  The problem was not just the amount of water but the fact that some of the fish bags were on their sides leaving almost no water covering the fish at all.  By the way their fish tanks were dirty and they had mostly dead and dying fish.  The workers just sit and take the money.  I don't think anyone really works with care of the animals.  In our area they don't have any real laws protecting pet-shop animals.  They say food shelter is all they need.  Sad.  Oh I would never buy fish there.  I think the only way to get these places is don't buy anything.  They have to have money to stay open. Thanks again for answering my quetions. Evita
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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10019 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: cloudy water
                                                                                                                          why would I have cloudy water??? This is my first experience with it.. I did a 30% water change on Saturday, today I changed out the carbon in my filter thinking that might help, I know I haven't given it enough time to re circulate but I would like ideas on how I might prevent this in the future. .. any ideas. Shannon
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10020 From: Evita Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                          Thanks, Steve.  Very informative.  I think you must be right about the water 35-40 years ago vs. now and the difference in the fish.  I also remember both her tank and pond had loads of fish in them.  I went to the pet shop Sat. and they never mentioned adding the ammonia they just wanted me to add 2-3 hardy fish.  I told them I wanted to wait.  They said with the water conditioner starter I could add fish in three days and one week was fine.  I could wait 2 weeks to be safer but never mentioned adding ammonia.  I got several books also and none talks about this either.  Why is this?  Just wondering.  Evita 

                                                                                                                           


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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10021 From: alglea@aol.com Date: 4/4/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: cloudy water
                                                                                                                          I'm having the same problem!  Water has a greenish tint to it?  Nitrate's up a little but not real high (40'sh) - everything else is fine?
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10022 From: bettamuse Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Huge international betta show in Brisbane
                                                                                                                          If you go to The Australian Betta Boards site and have a look under
                                                                                                                          Dates to remember on the General thread the contacts are in there. Or
                                                                                                                          look under the Betta Australis topic heading as they are the club
                                                                                                                          hosting the show, The show chairs name is Jodi, you can contact her on
                                                                                                                          there. Jodi is the one taking the entries and also arranging the sale
                                                                                                                          of the show Bettas and the show tanks.

                                                                                                                          Are you thinking of entering?
                                                                                                                          Cheers
                                                                                                                          BM

                                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas J. Munro" <nedarg@h...>
                                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > from the website it says:
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Brisbane Convetion Centre (15-16th April) Queensland Australia
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Thanks
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bettamuse" <bettamuse@y...>
                                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > > -
                                                                                                                          > > If you go to The Australian Betta Board
                                                                                                                          > > http://pub35.ezboard.com/btheaustralianbettaboard.
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10023 From: Rachel Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                          the reason things are done tediously with my fish is that i live in a
                                                                                                                          dorm room.
                                                                                                                          ive never had a 20 gal before, was jus pondering on it.

                                                                                                                          good ideas. im from new orleans and when i first tested my water it
                                                                                                                          was off my chart which was 6-8

                                                                                                                          my friend is giving me her betta. muwahahaha.

                                                                                                                          rachel
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10024 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: cloudy water
                                                                                                                          don't have a green tint to mine just like hazy.. I am sure it will self correct in a few days.. well rob the pro told me that lol Shannon
                                                                                                                          I'm having the same problem!  Water has a greenish tint to it?  Nitrate's up a little but not real high (40'sh) - everything else is fine?
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10025 From: paul helms Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                          because it is something people do to attempt to speed
                                                                                                                          up the cycle.....imho not a good idea
                                                                                                                          --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > Thanks, Steve. Very informative. I think you must
                                                                                                                          > be right about the water 35-40 years ago vs. now and
                                                                                                                          > the difference in the fish. I also remember both
                                                                                                                          > her tank and pond had loads of fish in them. I went
                                                                                                                          > to the pet shop Sat. and they never mentioned adding
                                                                                                                          > the ammonia they just wanted me to add 2-3 hardy
                                                                                                                          > fish. I told them I wanted to wait. They said with
                                                                                                                          > the water conditioner starter I could add fish in
                                                                                                                          > three days and one week was fine. I could wait 2
                                                                                                                          > weeks to be safer but never mentioned adding
                                                                                                                          > ammonia. I got several books also and none talks
                                                                                                                          > about this either. Why is this? Just wondering.
                                                                                                                          > Evita
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10026 From: paul helms Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: cloudy water
                                                                                                                          this may sounds backwards, but if you do not have
                                                                                                                          enough light, and there is a small amount of direct
                                                                                                                          sunlight, your water will develop a slight green tint.
                                                                                                                          make sure you lights are on 8-12 hours per day
                                                                                                                          paul
                                                                                                                          --- agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                                                          > why would I have cloudy water??? This is my first
                                                                                                                          > experience with it.. I did
                                                                                                                          > a 30% water change on Saturday, today I changed out
                                                                                                                          > the carbon in my filter
                                                                                                                          > thinking that might help, I know I haven't given it
                                                                                                                          > enough time to re
                                                                                                                          > circulate but I would like ideas on how I might
                                                                                                                          > prevent this in the future. .. any
                                                                                                                          > ideas. Shannon
                                                                                                                          >



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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10027 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: cloudy water
                                                                                                                          thanks yea I have a lot of like just got a new bulb.. and well it really doesn't get any direct or indirect sun light and the tank really doesn't have a green tink.. ill just have to wait and see if it goes away.... I need to do a water test though I am sure lol but I hate doing them because they are always the same... so annoying to me.. Shannon
                                                                                                                          this may sounds backwards, but if you do not have
                                                                                                                          enough light, and there is a small amount of direct
                                                                                                                          sunlight, your water will develop a slight green tint.
                                                                                                                          make sure you lights are on 8-12 hours per day
                                                                                                                          paul
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10028 From: Evita Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                          Now I am confused do I or don't I add ammonia? I don't want to make any mistakes. Evita 

                                                                                                                          paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          because it is something people do to attempt to speed
                                                                                                                          up the cycle.....imho not a good idea
                                                                                                                          --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > Thanks, Steve.  Very informative.  I think you must
                                                                                                                          > be right about the water 35-40 years ago vs. now and
                                                                                                                          > the difference in the fish.  I also remember both
                                                                                                                          > her tank and pond had loads of fish in them.  I went
                                                                                                                          > to the pet shop Sat. and they never mentioned adding
                                                                                                                          > the ammonia they just wanted me to add 2-3 hardy
                                                                                                                          > fish.  I told them I wanted to wait.  They said with
                                                                                                                          > the water conditioner starter I could add fish in
                                                                                                                          > three days and one week was fine.  I could wait 2
                                                                                                                          > weeks to be safer but never mentioned adding
                                                                                                                          > ammonia.  I got several books also and none talks
                                                                                                                          > about this either.  Why is this?  Just wondering.
                                                                                                                          > Evita
                                                                                                                          >

                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10029 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                          Evita,

                                                                                                                          As you read more and more you will notice a similarity amongst the books
                                                                                                                          you read. It seems, unfortunately, that aquarium book authors seem to be
                                                                                                                          great copiers of each other, and often spread misinformation.

                                                                                                                          Paul says it is something people do to try to speed up the cycle. Well,
                                                                                                                          there is no way to speed up the cycle. However, one does need something to
                                                                                                                          start the cycle, whether it be fish or ammonia. You can't kill ammonia, and
                                                                                                                          it is what is needed to start the bacterial colonies you will need to have a
                                                                                                                          tank that is cycled.

                                                                                                                          I'm running way late this AM. Should have been out of here a while ago, and
                                                                                                                          I have to scrape windows this AM (and they say it will reach 70 today!).

                                                                                                                          \\Steve//

                                                                                                                          ________________________________

                                                                                                                          From: Evita [mailto:evitabug@...]
                                                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 12:24 AM
                                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can
                                                                                                                          get!


                                                                                                                          Thanks, Steve. Very informative. I think you must be right about the water
                                                                                                                          35-40 years ago vs. now and the difference in the fish. I also remember
                                                                                                                          both her tank and pond had loads of fish in them. I went to the pet shop
                                                                                                                          Sat. and they never mentioned adding the ammonia they just wanted me to add
                                                                                                                          2-3 hardy fish. I told them I wanted to wait. They said with the water
                                                                                                                          conditioner starter I could add fish in three days and one week was fine. I
                                                                                                                          could wait 2 weeks to be safer but never mentioned adding ammonia. I got
                                                                                                                          several books also and none talks about this either. Why is this? Just
                                                                                                                          wondering. Evita





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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10030 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: cloudy water
                                                                                                                          Hi Shannon, Many times cloudy water is the result of a bacteria bloom,
                                                                                                                          caused by too much nutrients in the tank. I realize that up 'till now
                                                                                                                          you've been doing pretty good maintaining your fish and of course have
                                                                                                                          gained a lot of knowledge, and I presume that you're feeding them
                                                                                                                          properly. However, is it possible that lately you've been feeding them
                                                                                                                          a bit too much without realizing it? One other thing that could cause
                                                                                                                          a bacteria bloom (if that's what it is (?), is a dead and decaying
                                                                                                                          fish, but I guess you would notice if there was one missing. This is
                                                                                                                          just another thought on the cause of the problem. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                          \
                                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > thanks yea I have a lot of like just got a new bulb.. and well it
                                                                                                                          really
                                                                                                                          > doesn't get any direct or indirect sun light and the tank really
                                                                                                                          doesn't have a
                                                                                                                          > green tink.. ill just have to wait and see if it goes away.... I need
                                                                                                                          to do a
                                                                                                                          > water test though I am sure lol but I hate doing them because they
                                                                                                                          are always
                                                                                                                          > the same... so annoying to me.. Shannon
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > this may sounds backwards, but if you do not have
                                                                                                                          > enough light, and there is a small amount of direct
                                                                                                                          > sunlight, your water will develop a slight green tint.
                                                                                                                          > make sure you lights are on 8-12 hours per day
                                                                                                                          > paul
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10031 From: TankGurl Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: cloudy water
                                                                                                                          On Apr 5, 2005 2:02 AM, alglea@... <alglea@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > I'm having the same problem! Water has a greenish tint to it? Nitrate's up
                                                                                                                          > a little but not real high (40'sh) - everything else is fine?

                                                                                                                          Nitrate's in the 40's are actually quite high. It's generally
                                                                                                                          considered a stress zone for fish.


                                                                                                                          Kelly
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10032 From: Kyle Osterholt Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: paul, betta block
                                                                                                                          maybe you didn't notice the funnel and the fact the bowl was being held above that.  Possibly it is you that cannot accept other people's views on this subject.  Telling me to grow up and face the facts?  oh well, that's your opinion, I'll keep mine.....


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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10033 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                          In order to cycle a tank, ammonia must be added to it at a steady rate.
                                                                                                                          When levels get high enough, bacterial will reproduce to consume it. If
                                                                                                                          you stop adding it, the bacteria will starve and you'll be back to square
                                                                                                                          one. The point is to get a thriving colony of bacteria running so that
                                                                                                                          they are ready to consume your fishs' waste. The colony can "ramp up"
                                                                                                                          quickly to handle higher volumes, but only if it is established first.

                                                                                                                          Now as to where the amonia comes from, there are two possible sources.

                                                                                                                          1. "Fishless Cycling" is just that: fishless. You add small amounts of
                                                                                                                          ammonia daily until the cycle is complete and then continue adding until
                                                                                                                          you add the fish.
                                                                                                                          2. Standard cycling. Add a couple of hardy fish and let them generate
                                                                                                                          ammonia in their waste. It takes a while, as the fish are small and don't
                                                                                                                          produce that much waste. The reason that you use hardy fish is that the
                                                                                                                          levels of Ammonia and Nitrite will spike during the cycle and less hardy
                                                                                                                          fish won't survive it (or will be injured).

                                                                                                                          The process takes a couple weeks. The fish store is trying to keep you
                                                                                                                          from losing interest with the wait. They are NOT giving you good advice.
                                                                                                                          The "water conditioner starter" (Stress-Zyme or the like) contains
                                                                                                                          bacteria and some ammonia, but it won't last long without something to
                                                                                                                          eat, so that's why they said to add fish after three days. In my opinion,
                                                                                                                          these products can help, but they are not a substitute for an effective
                                                                                                                          cycle.

                                                                                                                          I personally prefer the method with fish.



                                                                                                                          Evita said:
                                                                                                                          > Thanks, Steve. Very informative. I think you must be right about the
                                                                                                                          > water 35-40 years ago vs. now and the difference in the fish. I also
                                                                                                                          > remember both her tank and pond had loads of fish in them. I went to the
                                                                                                                          > pet shop Sat. and they never mentioned adding the ammonia they just wanted
                                                                                                                          > me to add 2-3 hardy fish. I told them I wanted to wait. They said with
                                                                                                                          > the water conditioner starter I could add fish in three days and one week
                                                                                                                          > was fine. I could wait 2 weeks to be safer but never mentioned adding
                                                                                                                          > ammonia. I got several books also and none talks about this either. Why
                                                                                                                          > is this? Just wondering. Evita
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Messenger
                                                                                                                          > Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun.
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10034 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: cloudy water
                                                                                                                          Kelly (and Shannon), Kelly, it appears you have a similar problem,
                                                                                                                          but not exactly the same. There are two different outward
                                                                                                                          appearances of cloudy water -- GREEN and GRAY. Your greenish water
                                                                                                                          is the result of suspended algae created basically by increased
                                                                                                                          nutritions and/or too much light, among other things (see below).
                                                                                                                          The direct addition of too much nutrition (for your aquarium
                                                                                                                          conditions) can be caused by overfeeding. The indirect causes are
                                                                                                                          things like an undiscovered dead fish, dead plant leaves and an at-
                                                                                                                          capacity (or over capacity) fish load -- tank fully stocked, or
                                                                                                                          overstocked, resulting in excessive fish waste. Excessive nutrients
                                                                                                                          (again, for your aquarium conditions) impact on the GREEN or GRAY
                                                                                                                          cloudy appearance of the water. When I say "for your aquarium
                                                                                                                          conditions", I mean that even though your Nitrates are just medium
                                                                                                                          high at 40 (ideally, it could be a lot better), in addition to your
                                                                                                                          lighting conditions, I'm referring to the amount of live plants you
                                                                                                                          have, -- which directly use up much of the excess nutrients
                                                                                                                          (irregardless of fish load). Adding live plants (along with the
                                                                                                                          PROPER lighting -- intensity and duration -- will eventually clear up
                                                                                                                          both of these conditions. Additionally, with GRAY cloudy water,
                                                                                                                          increased aeration sometimes helps. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                          \
                                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, TankGurl <fishgoddess@g...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > On Apr 5, 2005 2:02 AM, alglea@a... <alglea@a...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > > I'm having the same problem! Water has a greenish tint to it?
                                                                                                                          Nitrate's up
                                                                                                                          > > a little but not real high (40'sh) - everything else is fine?
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Nitrate's in the 40's are actually quite high. It's generally
                                                                                                                          > considered a stress zone for fish.
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Kelly
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10035 From: rojeriko Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: cloudy water
                                                                                                                          Hi,
                                                                                                                          Since it happened after a partial water change my guess is the
                                                                                                                          bacteria on the gravel (and/or filter) is disturbed. So once the
                                                                                                                          bacteria settle down again, the cloudiness should disappear. I assume
                                                                                                                          it's a greyish haze. If it's greenish then it's algae.

                                                                                                                          Btw, if you have an UV sterilizer I suggest you turn it off. You
                                                                                                                          wouldn't want to kill the usefull bacteria while they are free floating.

                                                                                                                          When I did my 20% water change recently for my 38g I used a pond
                                                                                                                          fountain pump I bought from Canadian Tire. I was able to add the new
                                                                                                                          water slowly so the gravel was not disturbed much.

                                                                                                                          I hope this helps
                                                                                                                          Murat


                                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                          > why would I have cloudy water??? This is my first experience with
                                                                                                                          it.. I did
                                                                                                                          > a 30% water change on Saturday, today I changed out the carbon in my
                                                                                                                          filter
                                                                                                                          > thinking that might help, I know I haven't given it enough time to
                                                                                                                          re
                                                                                                                          > circulate but I would like ideas on how I might prevent this in the
                                                                                                                          future. .. any
                                                                                                                          > ideas. Shannon
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10036 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Nitrates up, again!
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          I have a 20 gallon tank with zebra danios, buenos aires tetras, a black skirt tetra, cory catfish, violet gobies, frogs, large snail, and guppies.  I changed about 4 gallons Friday and today the nitrates are between 40 and 60.  Do I leave it alone or change out more water?  If change is necessary, how much water?  This keeps happening, and I have many plants - anachris.
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          Thanks,
                                                                                                                          Angela in Richmond, VA
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10037 From: TankGurl Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: cloudy water
                                                                                                                          On Apr 5, 2005 12:09 PM, Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Kelly (and Shannon),

                                                                                                                          Actually, my tank is great. :)

                                                                                                                          I was responding to the algae and high nitrate 40 post.

                                                                                                                          Kelly
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10038 From: TankGurl Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Nitrates up, again!
                                                                                                                          On Apr 5, 2005 1:23 PM, angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                          <angelasjenkins@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > I have a 20 gallon tank with zebra danios, buenos aires tetras, a black
                                                                                                                          > skirt tetra, cory catfish, violet gobies, frogs, large snail, and guppies.
                                                                                                                          > I changed about 4 gallons Friday and today the nitrates are between 40 and
                                                                                                                          > 60. Do I leave it alone or change out more water? If change is necessary,
                                                                                                                          > how much water? This keeps happening, and I have many plants - anachris.

                                                                                                                          What kind of filter is on the tank?

                                                                                                                          With numbers that high I"d do a 50% water change today and another in
                                                                                                                          2 days, depending on your numbers. If you don't get it under 40 soon,
                                                                                                                          the fish will start to show stress like rapid breathing and
                                                                                                                          inactivity. Keep your feeding minimal until it's under control. Check
                                                                                                                          for dead critters, rotting plants etc.

                                                                                                                          Good luck
                                                                                                                          Kelly
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10039 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Nitrates up, again!
                                                                                                                          My filter is a millenium 2000 and the cartridge gets changed every four weeks.
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                          On Apr 5, 2005 1:23 PM, angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                          <angelasjenkins@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                          > I have a 20 gallon tank with zebra danios, buenos aires tetras, a black
                                                                                                                          > skirt tetra, cory catfish, violet gobies, frogs, large snail, and guppies.
                                                                                                                          > I changed about 4 gallons Friday and today the nitrates are between 40 and
                                                                                                                          > 60.  Do I leave it alone or change out more water?  If change is necessary,
                                                                                                                          > how much water?  This keeps happening, and I have many plants - anachris.

                                                                                                                          What kind of filter is on the tank?

                                                                                                                          With numbers that high I"d do a 50% water change today and another in
                                                                                                                          2 days, depending on your numbers. If you don't get it under 40 soon,
                                                                                                                          the fish will start to show stress like rapid breathing and
                                                                                                                          inactivity. Keep your feeding minimal until it's under control. Check
                                                                                                                          for dead critters, rotting plants etc.

                                                                                                                          Good luck
                                                                                                                          Kelly


                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10040 From: TankGurl Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10041 From: paul helms Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                          stress zyme is all that is needed to cycle a tank. i
                                                                                                                          have literally cycled over 100 tanks, using only
                                                                                                                          stress zyme. it is added the 1st, 7th, and 14th day,
                                                                                                                          and is all that is needed. ammonia does not need to
                                                                                                                          be added, there is a sufficient food source in the
                                                                                                                          solution. i have cycle3d everything from 1 gallon to
                                                                                                                          400 gallon tanks in this manner, and all of the tanks
                                                                                                                          have flourished, when people actually waited 5 weeks
                                                                                                                          before adding fish. the tanks are run lights off,
                                                                                                                          filters on for that time period.
                                                                                                                          --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > In order to cycle a tank, ammonia must be added to
                                                                                                                          > it at a steady rate.
                                                                                                                          > When levels get high enough, bacterial will
                                                                                                                          > reproduce to consume it. If
                                                                                                                          > you stop adding it, the bacteria will starve and
                                                                                                                          > you'll be back to square
                                                                                                                          > one. The point is to get a thriving colony of
                                                                                                                          > bacteria running so that
                                                                                                                          > they are ready to consume your fishs' waste. The
                                                                                                                          > colony can "ramp up"
                                                                                                                          > quickly to handle higher volumes, but only if it is
                                                                                                                          > established first.
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Now as to where the amonia comes from, there are two
                                                                                                                          > possible sources.
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > 1. "Fishless Cycling" is just that: fishless. You
                                                                                                                          > add small amounts of
                                                                                                                          > ammonia daily until the cycle is complete and then
                                                                                                                          > continue adding until
                                                                                                                          > you add the fish.
                                                                                                                          > 2. Standard cycling. Add a couple of hardy fish and
                                                                                                                          > let them generate
                                                                                                                          > ammonia in their waste. It takes a while, as the
                                                                                                                          > fish are small and don't
                                                                                                                          > produce that much waste. The reason that you use
                                                                                                                          > hardy fish is that the
                                                                                                                          > levels of Ammonia and Nitrite will spike during the
                                                                                                                          > cycle and less hardy
                                                                                                                          > fish won't survive it (or will be injured).
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > The process takes a couple weeks. The fish store is
                                                                                                                          > trying to keep you
                                                                                                                          > from losing interest with the wait. They are NOT
                                                                                                                          > giving you good advice.
                                                                                                                          > The "water conditioner starter" (Stress-Zyme or the
                                                                                                                          > like) contains
                                                                                                                          > bacteria and some ammonia, but it won't last long
                                                                                                                          > without something to
                                                                                                                          > eat, so that's why they said to add fish after three
                                                                                                                          > days. In my opinion,
                                                                                                                          > these products can help, but they are not a
                                                                                                                          > substitute for an effective
                                                                                                                          > cycle.
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > I personally prefer the method with fish.
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Evita said:
                                                                                                                          > > Thanks, Steve. Very informative. I think you
                                                                                                                          > must be right about the
                                                                                                                          > > water 35-40 years ago vs. now and the difference
                                                                                                                          > in the fish. I also
                                                                                                                          > > remember both her tank and pond had loads of fish
                                                                                                                          > in them. I went to the
                                                                                                                          > > pet shop Sat. and they never mentioned adding the
                                                                                                                          > ammonia they just wanted
                                                                                                                          > > me to add 2-3 hardy fish. I told them I wanted to
                                                                                                                          > wait. They said with
                                                                                                                          > > the water conditioner starter I could add fish in
                                                                                                                          > three days and one week
                                                                                                                          > > was fine. I could wait 2 weeks to be safer but
                                                                                                                          > never mentioned adding
                                                                                                                          > > ammonia. I got several books also and none talks
                                                                                                                          > about this either. Why
                                                                                                                          > > is this? Just wondering. Evita
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                          > > Yahoo! Messenger
                                                                                                                          > > Show us what our next emoticon should look like.
                                                                                                                          > Join the fun.
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >



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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10042 From: paul helms Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: paul, betta block
                                                                                                                          the betta slides down the side of the funnel genius on
                                                                                                                          a cushion of water. not an opinion...simple fact, try
                                                                                                                          it some time and you may learn something!
                                                                                                                          --- Kyle Osterholt <snakeskinnerkyle@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > maybe you didn't notice the funnel and the fact the
                                                                                                                          > bowl was being held above that. Possibly it is you
                                                                                                                          > that cannot accept other people's views on this
                                                                                                                          > subject. Telling me to grow up and face the facts?
                                                                                                                          > oh well, that's your opinion, I'll keep mine.....
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                          > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!



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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10043 From: paul helms Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                          i would never add ammonia to a tank, a very small
                                                                                                                          amount is needed in the cycle. i have been in the
                                                                                                                          industry for 4 years and in the hobby for more than
                                                                                                                          12. i stick with what i know is safe, fool proof, and
                                                                                                                          works. stress zyme is a my productof choice. others
                                                                                                                          use fritz zyme or the like.
                                                                                                                          --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > Now I am confused do I or don't I add ammonia? I
                                                                                                                          > don't want to make any mistakes. Evita
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:because it is
                                                                                                                          > something people do to attempt to speed
                                                                                                                          > up the cycle.....imho not a good idea
                                                                                                                          > --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > > Thanks, Steve. Very informative. I think you
                                                                                                                          > must
                                                                                                                          > > be right about the water 35-40 years ago vs. now
                                                                                                                          > and
                                                                                                                          > > the difference in the fish. I also remember both
                                                                                                                          > > her tank and pond had loads of fish in them. I
                                                                                                                          > went
                                                                                                                          > > to the pet shop Sat. and they never mentioned
                                                                                                                          > adding
                                                                                                                          > > the ammonia they just wanted me to add 2-3 hardy
                                                                                                                          > > fish. I told them I wanted to wait. They said
                                                                                                                          > with
                                                                                                                          > > the water conditioner starter I could add fish in
                                                                                                                          > > three days and one week was fine. I could wait 2
                                                                                                                          > > weeks to be safer but never mentioned adding
                                                                                                                          > > ammonia. I got several books also and none talks
                                                                                                                          > > about this either. Why is this? Just wondering.
                                                                                                                          > > Evita
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                          > > Yahoo! Messenger
                                                                                                                          > > Show us what our next emoticon should look like.
                                                                                                                          > > Join the fun.
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                          > Make Yahoo! your home page
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                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                          > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                          > .
                                                                                                                          > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                          > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                          > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                          > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                          > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                          > matter
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10044 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: gray: cloudy water
                                                                                                                          thanks ray now that I have went back step by step.. mine is the gray that you talk about... I on Saturday took out my old filter bag and put a new one in.. which in the past has never done this but in the past I had live plants. but now since adding in my snails... they ate them all and I gave up keeping any... so im guessing that is why.. if this doesn't clear up is it dangerous.. do I need to go try and get a plant that the snails wont eat lol year right I feed them nearly a head of lettuce a week and they are still hungry pooping buggers.. but they are darn cute and worth it... Shannon


                                                                                                                          Kelly (and Shannon),  Kelly, it appears you have a similar problem,
                                                                                                                          but not exactly the same.  There are two different outward
                                                                                                                          appearances of cloudy water -- GREEN and GRAY.  Your greenish water
                                                                                                                          is the result of suspended algae created basically by increased
                                                                                                                          nutritions and/or too much light, among other things (see below). 
                                                                                                                          The direct addition of too much nutrition (for your aquarium
                                                                                                                          conditions) can be caused by overfeeding.  The indirect causes are
                                                                                                                          things like an undiscovered dead fish, dead plant leaves and an at-
                                                                                                                          capacity (or over capacity) fish load -- tank fully stocked, or
                                                                                                                          overstocked, resulting in excessive fish waste.  Excessive nutrients
                                                                                                                          (again, for your aquarium conditions) impact on the GREEN or GRAY
                                                                                                                          cloudy appearance of the water.  When I say "for your aquarium
                                                                                                                          conditions", I mean that even though your Nitrates are just medium
                                                                                                                          high at 40 (ideally, it could be a lot better), in addition to your
                                                                                                                          lighting conditions, I'm referring to the amount of live plants you
                                                                                                                          have, -- which directly use up much of the excess nutrients
                                                                                                                          (irregardless of fish load).  Adding live plants (along with the
                                                                                                                          PROPER lighting -- intensity and duration -- will eventually clear up
                                                                                                                          both of these conditions.  Additionally, with GRAY cloudy water,
                                                                                                                          increased aeration sometimes helps.  Regards,  Ray                 
                                                                                                                          \                                                                    
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10045 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: paul, betta block
                                                                                                                              I don't guess facts matter to some people. :(  I agree, the betta had no problem on the funnel, it is smooth and the hole is plenty big for a betta, nothing to get caught on.  As for the gravel, I couldn't even see the fish hit the gravel.  Could you?  My viewing was a little blurred.  I am certain the betta didn't hit the gravel the first time he put the fish in.  There was easily an inch between it and the bottom.
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                          the betta slides down the side of the funnel genius on
                                                                                                                          a cushion of water.  not an opinion...simple fact, try
                                                                                                                          it some time and you may learn something!
                                                                                                                          Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10046 From: butterfly42422002 Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Birth Patterns of Platties
                                                                                                                          Hi Evita!
                                                                                                                          You have mentioned in some of your posts that you are doing alot of
                                                                                                                          reading to update yourself with common fishkeeping practices. I
                                                                                                                          suggest going to your local library. I picked up some wonderful
                                                                                                                          books on breeding of liverbears. If you are interested in the
                                                                                                                          crossing of the colors, with Guppies, Plattys, etc.. get a book that
                                                                                                                          explains the genetic coding which will give you detailed information
                                                                                                                          on coloring & inbreeding genetics and how they work. I wish I could
                                                                                                                          remember the names of the 2 books I read but it was many years ago.

                                                                                                                          I just wanted to share with you a quick story. I wanted to breed
                                                                                                                          guppies. In particular the Metallic Blue's. I made the typical
                                                                                                                          beginner mistake, I bought the fish and did the reading afterwards.

                                                                                                                          My 2 females were perfect but my 2 males had a small dot of yellow on
                                                                                                                          their tails. Personally I thought it made them prettier but the
                                                                                                                          offspring did not turn out the way I had expected. Those dots would
                                                                                                                          be my breeding surprise & demise. When it was all said and done, I
                                                                                                                          had a couple of fish with the blue and black coloring but the
                                                                                                                          majority of my fish had Bright Yellows, Oranges, reds with a bit of
                                                                                                                          black. Just a select few ended up with the coloration's that I had
                                                                                                                          originally wanted. I loved all my fish and did not have the heart to
                                                                                                                          sell them as I has originally planned.

                                                                                                                          I am sure that this information that I mentioned above can be
                                                                                                                          obtained with a google search. The books were good for me because
                                                                                                                          they were written in easy to understand terminology there were
                                                                                                                          diagrams and pictures to reference while I was reading along. These
                                                                                                                          books also assist with information regarding defects and handicaps of
                                                                                                                          your offspring.

                                                                                                                          Good luck!!!

                                                                                                                          Rainbow422@...

                                                                                                                          ********************************************************************

                                                                                                                          > I have a question on platties for anyone ...after reading your
                                                                                                                          posts. I was told by a lady I know after her females gave birth they
                                                                                                                          died. She emplied this was normal. She said it happened every time
                                                                                                                          any femal she had gave birth. I was thinking it is not normal but
                                                                                                                          stress related. I have never kept them so I thought I would post
                                                                                                                          the question here. I have been considering platties myself and want
                                                                                                                          to learn more about them. I also have another new-bee question on
                                                                                                                          them. I know they come in several colors and types as well as the
                                                                                                                          Mollies do. Can one put several different types and colors
                                                                                                                          together? Would they mate and cause other variations.Or should one
                                                                                                                          stick to same color fish when choosing a breed in one tank. What I
                                                                                                                          mean is, could you keep several colors of that fish, like salt and
                                                                                                                          pepper and gold together? Evita
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10047 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: paul, betta block
                                                                                                                          Even if they did hit the side of the funnel a little stress coat or one of the water conditioners with aloe would help replace any slime from the side of the fish.
                                                                                                                          Mike
                                                                                                                          In a message dated 4/5/2005 12:54:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, patrickmn1@... writes:
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          I agree, the betta had no problem on the funnel, it is smooth and the hole is plenty big for a betta, nothing to get caught on.
                                                                                                                          the betta slides down the side of the funnel genius on
                                                                                                                          a cushion of water.  not an opinion...simple fact, try
                                                                                                                          it some time and you may learn something!
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10048 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: gray: cloudy water
                                                                                                                          Shannon, You're going to have to wait for the new filter bag to
                                                                                                                          develop a good bacteria culture again. Not that this will clear up
                                                                                                                          the water, but at least your nitrites will be converted to nitrates
                                                                                                                          again once this happens. Its the lack of live plants right now that
                                                                                                                          are not there to use up the nitrates, not to mention all the waste
                                                                                                                          from nearly a head of lettuce per week. No amount of plants would be
                                                                                                                          able to use up all that plant nutrition. I'd suggest cutting back on
                                                                                                                          the lettuce or you'll just wind up having to clean up the bottom and
                                                                                                                          do water changes a lot more frequently to get rid of the excess. As
                                                                                                                          for plants, you might try any Anubias (barterii, etc.) -- they're a
                                                                                                                          tough leafed plant. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                          \
                                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > thanks ray now that I have went back step by step.. mine is the
                                                                                                                          gray that
                                                                                                                          > you talk about... I on Saturday took out my old filter bag and put
                                                                                                                          a new one
                                                                                                                          > in.. which in the past has never done this but in the past I had
                                                                                                                          live plants.
                                                                                                                          > but now since adding in my snails... they ate them all and I gave
                                                                                                                          up keeping
                                                                                                                          > any... so im guessing that is why.. if this doesn't clear up is it
                                                                                                                          dangerous..
                                                                                                                          > do I need to go try and get a plant that the snails wont eat lol
                                                                                                                          year right I
                                                                                                                          > feed them nearly a head of lettuce a week and they are still
                                                                                                                          hungry pooping
                                                                                                                          > buggers.. but they are darn cute and worth it... Shannon
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Kelly (and Shannon), Kelly, it appears you have a similar
                                                                                                                          problem,
                                                                                                                          > but not exactly the same. There are two different outward
                                                                                                                          > appearances of cloudy water -- GREEN and GRAY. Your greenish
                                                                                                                          water
                                                                                                                          > is the result of suspended algae created basically by increased
                                                                                                                          > nutritions and/or too much light, among other things (see below).
                                                                                                                          > The direct addition of too much nutrition (for your aquarium
                                                                                                                          > conditions) can be caused by overfeeding. The indirect causes are
                                                                                                                          > things like an undiscovered dead fish, dead plant leaves and an at-
                                                                                                                          > capacity (or over capacity) fish load -- tank fully stocked, or
                                                                                                                          > overstocked, resulting in excessive fish waste. Excessive
                                                                                                                          nutrients
                                                                                                                          > (again, for your aquarium conditions) impact on the GREEN or GRAY
                                                                                                                          > cloudy appearance of the water. When I say "for your aquarium
                                                                                                                          > conditions", I mean that even though your Nitrates are just medium
                                                                                                                          > high at 40 (ideally, it could be a lot better), in addition to
                                                                                                                          your
                                                                                                                          > lighting conditions, I'm referring to the amount of live plants
                                                                                                                          you
                                                                                                                          > have, -- which directly use up much of the excess nutrients
                                                                                                                          > (irregardless of fish load). Adding live plants (along with the
                                                                                                                          > PROPER lighting -- intensity and duration -- will eventually clear
                                                                                                                          up
                                                                                                                          > both of these conditions. Additionally, with GRAY cloudy water,
                                                                                                                          > increased aeration sometimes helps. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                          > \
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10049 From: Nigel Chetcuti Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: CO2 ?
                                                                                                                          There are 2 ways of having those bubbles! the first
                                                                                                                          one as i said is the excess of dissolved Co2 but you
                                                                                                                          siad that the fish are fine! therefore to that i will
                                                                                                                          tell you that you have perfect system (SORRY MY VERY
                                                                                                                          BIG MISTAKE IS TO GO ALWAYS ON THE BAD THINGS) because
                                                                                                                          they will take co2 and produce O2 very very good! i
                                                                                                                          actually encountered someone saying that only 2 times
                                                                                                                          in my whole experience in fish!!
                                                                                                                          GREAT JOB MATE!!

                                                                                                                          nigel

                                                                                                                          --- Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 <alan.zelhart@...>
                                                                                                                          wrote:

                                                                                                                          ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                          Nigel,

                                                                                                                          I'm not sure why you are thinking there is to much
                                                                                                                          CO2. From the start you have said my settings are too
                                                                                                                          high, yet I've had no loss of fish. My PH is in the
                                                                                                                          acceptable ranges of about 7.2-7.6, etc. But
                                                                                                                          anyway..to satisfy my curiosity about your statements,
                                                                                                                          and to be on the cautious side, I have put my CO2 down
                                                                                                                          to slightly less than 30 bubbles per minute. My PH
                                                                                                                          has skyrocketed back up to 8.2, which is the normal
                                                                                                                          rate of our PH here in our water supply. Also, still,
                                                                                                                          even now, I get the bubbles on the plants late in the
                                                                                                                          day, as it starts out putting oxygen.

                                                                                                                          Whenever you go web searching to find info on CO2, you
                                                                                                                          can get a whole gamut of what is good and what is bad
                                                                                                                          for the aquarium. You say less than one bubble per
                                                                                                                          second, the Dr ForesterSmith site says around 1-2
                                                                                                                          bubbles per minute.

                                                                                                                          http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?dept_id=0&aid=528

                                                                                                                          Can you please explain why you are so dead set against
                                                                                                                          1-2 bubbles for minute? What are you using to
                                                                                                                          determine this? What should I be watching for to tell
                                                                                                                          me that a rate is to high or two low. Everything is
                                                                                                                          falling within the acceptable ranges, that I know to
                                                                                                                          check.

                                                                                                                          --
                                                                                                                          Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                          Alan
                                                                                                                          --
                                                                                                                          Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                          http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                          -----
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                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                          From: Nigel Chetcuti
                                                                                                                          [mailto:nigelchetcuti@...]
                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 8:15 AM
                                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 ?



                                                                                                                          YOU HAVE TOO MUCH CO2 DISSOLVED

                                                                                                                          nigel

                                                                                                                          --- Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 <alan.zelhart@...>
                                                                                                                          wrote:

                                                                                                                          ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                          One other short comment. I'm noticing in the last 3
                                                                                                                          or 4 days, lots more bubbles of <oxygen?> on the
                                                                                                                          plants in the aquarium. Especially in the afternoon.

                                                                                                                          --
                                                                                                                          Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                          Alan
                                                                                                                          --
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                                                                                                                          http://www.GardenersCorner.com
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                                                                                                                          ***** I'd like to, but last time I went I never came
                                                                                                                          back..


                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                          From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30
                                                                                                                          [mailto:alan.zelhart@...]
                                                                                                                          Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 5:26 AM
                                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 ?



                                                                                                                          I have a diffuser on mine, which dissolves the CO2
                                                                                                                          into smaller bits of air, and places them in the
                                                                                                                          water. That's probably a horrible scientific
                                                                                                                          explanation, but in answer to your question, on the
                                                                                                                          output tube, I see no bubbles coming out. My setup is
                                                                                                                          similar to the one on Foster and Smith, the only thing
                                                                                                                          I don't have is the fancy PH machine they have that
                                                                                                                          turns off the CO2 when the PH drops below a certain
                                                                                                                          level. I did all my adjustments on the weekend so I
                                                                                                                          could watch and make sure my PH didn't drop below that
                                                                                                                          certain level.

                                                                                                                          My understanding of the process is. Aquarium plants
                                                                                                                          use CO2 during the day for growth, and at night they
                                                                                                                          release oxygen. It's reported by some that there is
                                                                                                                          not enough CO2 in your aquarium water to really
                                                                                                                          satisfy most aquarium plants. Thus the reason for
                                                                                                                          adding more CO2 to the tank. Listen, I never would
                                                                                                                          have believed it, till I tried it. The difference in
                                                                                                                          one week is quite incredible. My passion is
                                                                                                                          gardening, but having an aquarium has always been a
                                                                                                                          hobby too, except I did take a break for several years
                                                                                                                          and am just getting back into it. When I read some of
                                                                                                                          the articles I read on adding CO2 to your tank, I
                                                                                                                          found it intriguing. Just as in gardening I love to
                                                                                                                          experiment with my plants and try new things, so with
                                                                                                                          my aquarium plants. I wanted to try it. So far so
                                                                                                                          good....hopefully next week I won't kill them all. I
                                                                                                                          have pictures from when I first set up the new plants,
                                                                                                                          which haven't done anything since I first put them in
                                                                                                                          there, except get yellowish green. Since I've!
                                                                                                                          added the CO2, the seem to be getting their vim and
                                                                                                                          vigor back. They are looking a darker, richer green,
                                                                                                                          and as I mentioned in a previous post, One particular
                                                                                                                          plant, of which I have 3 in the tank, I swear, I think
                                                                                                                          it's growing 1/4" to 1/2" a day. It's probably not
                                                                                                                          really growing that fast, time just seems to go by to
                                                                                                                          fast, but it sure seems like it.

                                                                                                                          --
                                                                                                                          Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                          Alan
                                                                                                                          --
                                                                                                                          Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                          http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                          -----
                                                                                                                          *** Five new gardening mail list now available on
                                                                                                                          GardenersCorner.com.
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                                                                                                                          find your address.
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                                                                                                                          ***** I'd like to, but last time I went I never came
                                                                                                                          back..


                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                          From: Nan [mailto:ntalb00@...]
                                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:38 PM
                                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                          Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 ?




                                                                                                                          Ok, I get somewhat why the CO2 is being added, I get
                                                                                                                          that it is
                                                                                                                          suppossed to (and probably does) improve your tank
                                                                                                                          plants, but now my
                                                                                                                          big question is, how does it work? I mean how does
                                                                                                                          the CO2 cannister
                                                                                                                          work? I was looking on Foster and Smith at the one
                                                                                                                          they have where
                                                                                                                          fermentation is neccessary to make it work, but what
                                                                                                                          exactly does it
                                                                                                                          do? Does it shoot CO2 into your water for your
                                                                                                                          plants? Is there a
                                                                                                                          tube like an airhose that you run down into the gravel
                                                                                                                          for the plants?
                                                                                                                          I know it is probably a stupid question, but so far I
                                                                                                                          have found no
                                                                                                                          answers on the web.

                                                                                                                          Thanks for your help!

                                                                                                                          ~nan and crew~






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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10050 From: helen572 Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: 2.5 gallon help
                                                                                                                          I had a 2.5 gal. tank which I got just for one female betta. She died
                                                                                                                          from dropsy and we stored the 2.5 gal. We have a 40-gallon with
                                                                                                                          cichlids, and had a blue crayfish in it. We were told the cichlids
                                                                                                                          would eventually kill the cray, so we put her in a 10-gallon, along
                                                                                                                          with two platys and a small pleco. The cray caught and ate one of the
                                                                                                                          platys and the pleco, so we took the other platy out and put her in
                                                                                                                          the 2.5 gallon. Got another platy and put her in the 2.5. They are
                                                                                                                          doing fine. You can't put much more than that in a 2.5 gal. So start
                                                                                                                          small - if all you can afford at this point is a 2.5, get two small
                                                                                                                          fish or one betta (male or female). Above all - research, research,
                                                                                                                          research before you get a bigger tank and other species of fish. The
                                                                                                                          more knowledge you have to start with, the less likely you'll lose
                                                                                                                          your fish. This group is a good start, but there are lots of other
                                                                                                                          web sites where you can get info and advice. Good luck.


                                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "valbogert01" <valbogert01@y...>
                                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > I have a 2.5 gal with a filter and hood and light. What can I put in
                                                                                                                          > there? Also what would be the best way to clean a small tank like
                                                                                                                          > this? Just wanting to get a head start before I kill fish. Val
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10051 From: Patricia Burch-Vaughn Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: new w/questions thanks
                                                                                                                          Thank you for answering my questions. Much appreciated.
                                                                                                                          Pat
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10052 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                          Paul,

                                                                                                                          Yep, stick with the tried and true. This works. You need something to kick
                                                                                                                          off the cycle and get it going to completion. Ammonia is what it is. Whether
                                                                                                                          you add it by using live animals, or go with the fishless cycle as I
                                                                                                                          described, it will work. Add nothing, and nothing happens.

                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                          From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
                                                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 3:22 PM
                                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can
                                                                                                                          get!


                                                                                                                          i would never add ammonia to a tank, a very small
                                                                                                                          amount is needed in the cycle. i have been in the
                                                                                                                          industry for 4 years and in the hobby for more than
                                                                                                                          12. i stick with what i know is safe, fool proof, and
                                                                                                                          works. stress zyme is a my productof choice. others
                                                                                                                          use fritz zyme or the like.
                                                                                                                          --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > Now I am confused do I or don't I add ammonia? I
                                                                                                                          > don't want to make any mistakes. Evita
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:because it is
                                                                                                                          > something people do to attempt to speed
                                                                                                                          > up the cycle.....imho not a good idea
                                                                                                                          > --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > > Thanks, Steve. Very informative. I think you
                                                                                                                          > must
                                                                                                                          > > be right about the water 35-40 years ago vs. now
                                                                                                                          > and
                                                                                                                          > > the difference in the fish. I also remember both
                                                                                                                          > > her tank and pond had loads of fish in them. I
                                                                                                                          > went
                                                                                                                          > > to the pet shop Sat. and they never mentioned
                                                                                                                          > adding
                                                                                                                          > > the ammonia they just wanted me to add 2-3 hardy
                                                                                                                          > > fish. I told them I wanted to wait. They said
                                                                                                                          > with
                                                                                                                          > > the water conditioner starter I could add fish in
                                                                                                                          > > three days and one week was fine. I could wait 2
                                                                                                                          > > weeks to be safer but never mentioned adding
                                                                                                                          > > ammonia. I got several books also and none talks
                                                                                                                          > > about this either. Why is this? Just wondering.
                                                                                                                          > > Evita
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                                          > .
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                                                                                                                          > the topic of the original message modify the subject
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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10053 From: William Autry Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: salt water
                                                                                                                          Im starting my new sait water tank its 39 gallon first time trying
                                                                                                                          salt water please help me
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10054 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: gray: cloudy water
                                                                                                                          thanks.. being new to having snails I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to starve them.. I haven't quit figured out what exactly they need.. but I am sure in time I will... the snails don't eat the hard part of the lettuce just the nice green leafs.. so it really isn't a full head.. more like a half.. but right now they are enjoying cucumbers... and hopefully that will help me figure more out about them... ill have to ask Terri if they eat the annubis.. I don't want to get a plant that they will just eat up.. that is so very sad. I had the most beautiful amazon sword.. and well it didn't survive lol.. Shannon


                                                                                                                          Shannon,  You're going to have to wait for the new filter bag to
                                                                                                                          develop a good bacteria culture again.  Not that this will clear up
                                                                                                                          the water, but at least your nitrites will be converted to nitrates
                                                                                                                          again once this happens.  Its the lack of live plants right now that
                                                                                                                          are not there to use up the nitrates, not to mention all the waste
                                                                                                                          from nearly a head of lettuce per week.  No amount of plants would be
                                                                                                                          able to use up all that plant nutrition.  I'd suggest cutting back on
                                                                                                                          the lettuce or you'll just wind up having to clean up the bottom and
                                                                                                                          do water changes a lot more frequently to get rid of the excess.  As
                                                                                                                          for plants, you might try any Anubias (barterii, etc.) -- they're a
                                                                                                                          tough leafed plant.  Regards,  Ray 
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10055 From: paul helms Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: salt water
                                                                                                                          what do you have/need to know?
                                                                                                                          what do you plan on putting in? agressive, or reef.
                                                                                                                          it really makes a difference on what you will need.
                                                                                                                          if you want coral, anemones and pollyps, you will need
                                                                                                                          3-5 watts of light per gallon. either way i recommend
                                                                                                                          a protein skimmer, it makes a big difference in the
                                                                                                                          attention required.
                                                                                                                          --- William Autry <paulandsue1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Im starting my new sait water tank its 39 gallon
                                                                                                                          > first time trying
                                                                                                                          > salt water please help me
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >



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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10056 From: paul helms Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                          stress zyme is the only thing i add, and as i
                                                                                                                          said...100+ successes
                                                                                                                          --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > Paul,
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Yep, stick with the tried and true. This works. You
                                                                                                                          > need something to kick
                                                                                                                          > off the cycle and get it going to completion.
                                                                                                                          > Ammonia is what it is. Whether
                                                                                                                          > you add it by using live animals, or go with the
                                                                                                                          > fishless cycle as I
                                                                                                                          > described, it will work. Add nothing, and nothing
                                                                                                                          > happens.
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                          > From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
                                                                                                                          > Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 3:22 PM
                                                                                                                          > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                          > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Want to do it right!
                                                                                                                          > Need all the help I can
                                                                                                                          > get!
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > i would never add ammonia to a tank, a very small
                                                                                                                          > amount is needed in the cycle. i have been in the
                                                                                                                          > industry for 4 years and in the hobby for more than
                                                                                                                          > 12. i stick with what i know is safe, fool proof,
                                                                                                                          > and
                                                                                                                          > works. stress zyme is a my productof choice.
                                                                                                                          > others
                                                                                                                          > use fritz zyme or the like.
                                                                                                                          > --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > > Now I am confused do I or don't I add ammonia? I
                                                                                                                          > > don't want to make any mistakes. Evita
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:because it
                                                                                                                          > is
                                                                                                                          > > something people do to attempt to speed
                                                                                                                          > > up the cycle.....imho not a good idea
                                                                                                                          > > --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > > > Thanks, Steve. Very informative. I think you
                                                                                                                          > > must
                                                                                                                          > > > be right about the water 35-40 years ago vs. now
                                                                                                                          > > and
                                                                                                                          > > > the difference in the fish. I also remember
                                                                                                                          > both
                                                                                                                          > > > her tank and pond had loads of fish in them. I
                                                                                                                          > > went
                                                                                                                          > > > to the pet shop Sat. and they never mentioned
                                                                                                                          > > adding
                                                                                                                          > > > the ammonia they just wanted me to add 2-3 hardy
                                                                                                                          > > > fish. I told them I wanted to wait. They said
                                                                                                                          > > with
                                                                                                                          > > > the water conditioner starter I could add fish
                                                                                                                          > in
                                                                                                                          > > > three days and one week was fine. I could wait
                                                                                                                          > 2
                                                                                                                          > > > weeks to be safer but never mentioned adding
                                                                                                                          > > > ammonia. I got several books also and none
                                                                                                                          > talks
                                                                                                                          > > > about this either. Why is this? Just
                                                                                                                          > wondering.
                                                                                                                          > > > Evita
                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                          > > >
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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10057 From: paul helms Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: paul, betta block
                                                                                                                          didn't say hit..slid...as in no harm done
                                                                                                                          --- Deenerz@... wrote:
                                                                                                                          > Even if they did hit the side of the funnel a little
                                                                                                                          > stress coat or one of
                                                                                                                          > the water conditioners with aloe would help replace
                                                                                                                          > any slime from the side of
                                                                                                                          > the fish.
                                                                                                                          > Mike
                                                                                                                          > In a message dated 4/5/2005 12:54:28 PM Pacific
                                                                                                                          > Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                          > patrickmn1@... writes:
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > I agree, the betta had no problem on the funnel, it
                                                                                                                          > is smooth and the hole
                                                                                                                          > is plenty big for a betta, nothing to get caught on.
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > the betta slides down the side of the funnel genius
                                                                                                                          > on
                                                                                                                          > a cushion of water. not an opinion...simple fact,
                                                                                                                          > try
                                                                                                                          > it some time and you may learn something!
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >



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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10058 From: paul helms Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: paul, betta block
                                                                                                                          he "hit the ground running" as it were. he brushed
                                                                                                                          the gravel as he swam to the side. people just need
                                                                                                                          to bitch about other people so they feel better about
                                                                                                                          the stupid things they do themselves i guess. lmao

                                                                                                                          --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                          <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > I don't guess facts matter to some people. :( I
                                                                                                                          > agree, the betta had no
                                                                                                                          > problem on the funnel, it is smooth and the hole is
                                                                                                                          > plenty big for a betta,
                                                                                                                          > nothing to get caught on. As for the gravel, I
                                                                                                                          > couldn't even see the fish
                                                                                                                          > hit the gravel. Could you? My viewing was a little
                                                                                                                          > blurred. I am certain
                                                                                                                          > the betta didn't hit the gravel the first time he
                                                                                                                          > put the fish in. There
                                                                                                                          > was easily an inch between it and the bottom.
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                          > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                          > the betta slides down the side of the funnel genius
                                                                                                                          > on
                                                                                                                          > a cushion of water. not an opinion...simple fact,
                                                                                                                          > try
                                                                                                                          > it some time and you may learn something!



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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10059 From: Loie Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: paul, betta block
                                                                                                                          Paul, You are exactly right, on that , LOL

                                                                                                                          paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          he "hit the ground running" as it were.  he brushed
                                                                                                                          the gravel as he swam to the side.  people just need
                                                                                                                          to bitch about other people so they feel better about
                                                                                                                          the stupid things they do themselves i guess. lmao

                                                                                                                          --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                          <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          >     I don't guess facts matter to some people. :(  I
                                                                                                                          > agree, the betta had no
                                                                                                                          > problem on the funnel, it is smooth and the hole is
                                                                                                                          > plenty big for a betta,
                                                                                                                          > nothing to get caught on.  As for the gravel, I
                                                                                                                          > couldn't even see the fish
                                                                                                                          > hit the gravel.  Could you?  My viewing was a little
                                                                                                                          > blurred.  I am certain
                                                                                                                          > the betta didn't hit the gravel the first time he
                                                                                                                          > put the fish in.  There
                                                                                                                          > was easily an inch between it and the bottom.

                                                                                                                          > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                          > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                          > the betta slides down the side of the funnel genius
                                                                                                                          > on
                                                                                                                          > a cushion of water.  not an opinion...simple fact,
                                                                                                                          > try
                                                                                                                          > it some time and you may learn something!


                                                                                                                                     
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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10061 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/5/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: paul, betta block
                                                                                                                          In a message dated 4/5/2005 8:49:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:
                                                                                                                          didn't say hit..slid...as in no harm done
                                                                                                                          I knew there was a reason I was just hitting the delete button 97% of the time on this topic.  Heaven forbid you not use the same word but one similar.
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          Back to the delete key, see you all on other topics.
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          Mike
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10062 From: Trevor Date: 4/6/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: salt water
                                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William Autry" <paulandsue1@c...>
                                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Im starting my new sait water tank its 39 gallon first time trying
                                                                                                                          > salt water please help me

                                                                                                                          I recommend you start out by reading "The New Marine Aquarium" by
                                                                                                                          Michael S. Paletta. If you can't find it at your local store (which
                                                                                                                          would surprise me - I've seen it about everywhere), Amazon has it at
                                                                                                                          http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1890087521/qid=1112824533/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-8606044-7042565?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

                                                                                                                          - Trevor
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10063 From: gracefullnature Date: 4/6/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Photo Albums
                                                                                                                          Hi All,

                                                                                                                          Welcome to all the New Members.

                                                                                                                          To anybody who was not able to upload pictures to the groups photo
                                                                                                                          album due to it being full, there is now alot more room available.

                                                                                                                          Using 19.20 of 30 MB (64%)

                                                                                                                          If you have pictures on a website of your own or anywhere else on
                                                                                                                          the net, please send an email with the link and or please add the
                                                                                                                          link in the groups Links Section into the Folder:

                                                                                                                          Members Links
                                                                                                                          post links to your aquarium related web sites, groups, forums,
                                                                                                                          clubs, etc...

                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/links/


                                                                                                                          Also, you are all able to store lots of pictures in your own Yahoo!
                                                                                                                          Photo Albums for free as a Yahoo! member.

                                                                                                                          try this link:

                                                                                                                          http://photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos

                                                                                                                          or when you go to the Yahoo! Home Page: http://www.yahoo.com

                                                                                                                          you can click on Photos in the box with all the features listed


                                                                                                                          Hope that helps,
                                                                                                                          Grace
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10064 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Bow tanks
                                                                                                                          Bow front tanks do not distort, not to start an arguement. I have a 46
                                                                                                                          in my bedroom, it is made of glass and it sits about 16 inches from my
                                                                                                                          bed. I don't get a headache and none of the fish look abnormal. It's
                                                                                                                          just a damn fine tank, especally with the increased surface area,
                                                                                                                          allowing for more fish per gallon. My plecs are getting too big,
                                                                                                                          though, and will need a new home soon. So anyone living in the Buffalo,
                                                                                                                          NY area and has a big tank, I have a 10 inch albino chocolate and 2-7
                                                                                                                          inch gibbicep plecos that need new homes, email me.

                                                                                                                          "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10065 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Photo Albums
                                                                                                                          For those that might be intrested there is a free picture hosting service For Fish Keepers  provided by Corydoras World geared towards the hobbyist fish keeper. They allow Hot linking which most sights don't allow. They do have a limit of 10 Mb of space with 50 Mb bandwidth. 10mb is quite a bit.
                                                                                                                          I'm sure if you sign up for the Free Image Hosting account you will be satisfied.








                                                                                                                          Image Hosting Account


                                                                                                                             http://fff.corydorasworld.com/signup.php



                                                                                                                          In a message dated 4/7/2005 1:38:02 AM US Eastern Standard Time, gracefullnature@... writes:



                                                                                                                          To anybody who was not able to upload pictures to the groups photo
                                                                                                                          album due to it being full, there is now alot more room available.

                                                                                                                          Using 19.20 of 30 MB (64%)

                                                                                                                          If you have pictures on a website of your own or anywhere else on
                                                                                                                          the net, please send an email with the link and or please add the
                                                                                                                          link in the groups  Links Section into the Folder:


                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10066 From: Evita Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
                                                                                                                          I know this post was a while ago but I was wondering one thing.  Can you keep one angel fish successfully without problems.  Evita

                                                                                                                          Hrvoje Maric <hrvoje.maric3@...> wrote:


                                                                                                                          A year ago my wife and kids surprised me for birthday with six young
                                                                                                                          angelfish, so I added them to our 60 gal tank. What they didn't know,
                                                                                                                          is that, as all chiclids, angelfish are extremly territorial, once
                                                                                                                          they mature sexually. After only few months they have grown, and two
                                                                                                                          of them formed a pair, and started mating. They have killed three of
                                                                                                                          their inmates in matter of days. The last one was hiding in a corner,
                                                                                                                          untill they killed him too. You may wander why I didn't remove them
                                                                                                                          on time. Well, knowing what will happend I wanted to give them away,
                                                                                                                          but untill I've found someone to take them (and persuaded kids that I
                                                                                                                          do care for their present, just need to save them) it was too late.
                                                                                                                          Angelfish will fight among themselves even if they are not in pairs,
                                                                                                                          simply because of their natural behaviour. Rearranging the tank may
                                                                                                                          help for couple of weeks, but generally they will fight untill the
                                                                                                                          end, unless you keep them in really big tank (over 100 gal). A mating
                                                                                                                          pair will even harras any other fish which becomes too curious, and
                                                                                                                          for them even the tetrazonas (notorious foe) will not be a problem.
                                                                                                                          Bottom line is: do not keep two of them in anything less than 60 gal
                                                                                                                          (providing they form a pair), for more use considerable bigger tank,
                                                                                                                          and keep an eye on their behaviour.

                                                                                                                          Hrvoje








                                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10067 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish

                                                                                                                          Yes. A single angel will cause less problems then a breeding pair or 2 males. They are still a bit aggressive though and if keeping with neons and cardinals, keep in mind that they are the natural food for Angels.

                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                          From: Evita [mailto:evitabug@...]
                                                                                                                          Sent: 07 April 2005 13:19
                                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Angry Angel Fish

                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                          I know this post was a while ago but I was wondering one thing.  Can you keep one angel fish successfully without problems.  Evita

                                                                                                                          Hrvoje Maric <hrvoje.maric3@...> wrote:



                                                                                                                          A year ago my wife and kids surprised me for birthday with six young
                                                                                                                          angelfish, so I added them to our 60 gal tank. What they didn't know,
                                                                                                                          is that, as all chiclids, angelfish are extremly territorial, once
                                                                                                                          they mature sexually. After only few months they have grown, and two
                                                                                                                          of them formed a pair, and started mating. They have killed three of
                                                                                                                          their inmates in matter of days. The last one was hiding in a corner,
                                                                                                                          untill they killed him too. You may wander why I didn't remove them
                                                                                                                          on time. Well, knowing what will happend I wanted to give them away,
                                                                                                                          but untill I've found someone to take them (and persuaded kids that I
                                                                                                                          do care for their present, just need to save them) it was too late.
                                                                                                                          Angelfish will fight among themselves even if they are not in pairs,
                                                                                                                          simply because of their natural behaviour. Rearranging the tank may
                                                                                                                          help for couple of weeks, but generally they will fight untill the
                                                                                                                          end, unless you keep them in really big tank (over 100 gal). A mating
                                                                                                                          pair will even harras any other fish which becomes too curious, and
                                                                                                                          for them even the tetrazonas (notorious foe) will not be a problem.
                                                                                                                          Bottom line is: do not keep two of them in anything less than 60 gal
                                                                                                                          (providing they form a pair), for more use considerable bigger tank,
                                                                                                                          and keep an eye on their behaviour.

                                                                                                                          Hrvoje








                                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                          Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                          Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.

                                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10068 From: Evita Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish

                                                                                                                          Thanks, My daughter really wants one.  If I could incorporate just one in the tank it would really make her happy.  I had wanted a school of neon's but one has to choose I  guess. I have been reading tons of books on various fish and I still have no set ideas of which to get.  I may decide on fewer fish of larger sizes that will show up better.  Then using the 20 gal for just guppies.  I am clueless.  Is there a site that has various lists of compatible fish that are the less aggressive ones.  It can be over whelming to calculate size, amounts of fish, color, temp. conditions, foods and environments all at the same time then decide which ones you want.  Evita 

                                                                                                                          Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                          Yes. A single angel will cause less problems then a breeding pair or 2 males. They are still a bit aggressive though and if keeping with neons and cardinals, keep in mind that they are the natural food for Angels.

                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                          From: Evita [mailto:evitabug@...]
                                                                                                                          Sent: 07 April 2005 13:19
                                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Angry Angel Fish

                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                          I know this post was a while ago but I was wondering one thing.  Can you keep one angel fish successfully without problems.  Evita

                                                                                                                          Hrvoje Maric <hrvoje.maric3@...> wrote:



                                                                                                                          A year ago my wife and kids surprised me for birthday with six young
                                                                                                                          angelfish, so I added them to our 60 gal tank. What they didn't know,
                                                                                                                          is that, as all chiclids, angelfish are extremly territorial, once
                                                                                                                          they mature sexually. After only few months they have grown, and two
                                                                                                                          of them formed a pair, and started mating. They have killed three of
                                                                                                                          their inmates in matter of days. The last one was hiding in a corner,
                                                                                                                          untill they killed him too. You may wander why I didn't remove them
                                                                                                                          on time. Well, knowing what will happend I wanted to give them away,
                                                                                                                          but untill I've found someone to take them (and persuaded kids that I
                                                                                                                          do care for their present, just need to save them) it was too late.
                                                                                                                          Angelfish will fight among themselves even if they are not in pairs,
                                                                                                                          simply because of their natural behaviour. Rearranging the tank may
                                                                                                                          help for couple of weeks, but generally they will fight untill the
                                                                                                                          end, unless you keep them in really big tank (over 100 gal). A mating
                                                                                                                          pair will even harras any other fish which becomes too curious, and
                                                                                                                          for them even the tetrazonas (notorious foe) will not be a problem.
                                                                                                                          Bottom line is: do not keep two of them in anything less than 60 gal
                                                                                                                          (providing they form a pair), for more use considerable bigger tank,
                                                                                                                          and keep an eye on their behaviour.

                                                                                                                          Hrvoje








                                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                          Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                          Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.

                                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter





                                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10069 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
                                                                                                                          you can keep many angels successfully without problems
                                                                                                                          if you het them young enough. i kept 29 angels with
                                                                                                                          cori cats, guppies, gourami, and a betta in a 55
                                                                                                                          gallon tank for 1 1/2 years. i then sold the angels
                                                                                                                          for 8 bucks ap piece =)
                                                                                                                          paul
                                                                                                                          --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > I know this post was a while ago but I was wondering
                                                                                                                          > one thing. Can you keep one angel fish successfully
                                                                                                                          > without problems. Evita
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Hrvoje Maric <hrvoje.maric3@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > A year ago my wife and kids surprised me for
                                                                                                                          > birthday with six young
                                                                                                                          > angelfish, so I added them to our 60 gal tank. What
                                                                                                                          > they didn't know,
                                                                                                                          > is that, as all chiclids, angelfish are extremly
                                                                                                                          > territorial, once
                                                                                                                          > they mature sexually. After only few months they
                                                                                                                          > have grown, and two
                                                                                                                          > of them formed a pair, and started mating. They have
                                                                                                                          > killed three of
                                                                                                                          > their inmates in matter of days. The last one was
                                                                                                                          > hiding in a corner,
                                                                                                                          > untill they killed him too. You may wander why I
                                                                                                                          > didn't remove them
                                                                                                                          > on time. Well, knowing what will happend I wanted to
                                                                                                                          > give them away,
                                                                                                                          > but untill I've found someone to take them (and
                                                                                                                          > persuaded kids that I
                                                                                                                          > do care for their present, just need to save them)
                                                                                                                          > it was too late.
                                                                                                                          > Angelfish will fight among themselves even if they
                                                                                                                          > are not in pairs,
                                                                                                                          > simply because of their natural behaviour.
                                                                                                                          > Rearranging the tank may
                                                                                                                          > help for couple of weeks, but generally they will
                                                                                                                          > fight untill the
                                                                                                                          > end, unless you keep them in really big tank (over
                                                                                                                          > 100 gal). A mating
                                                                                                                          > pair will even harras any other fish which becomes
                                                                                                                          > too curious, and
                                                                                                                          > for them even the tetrazonas (notorious foe) will
                                                                                                                          > not be a problem.
                                                                                                                          > Bottom line is: do not keep two of them in anything
                                                                                                                          > less than 60 gal
                                                                                                                          > (providing they form a pair), for more use
                                                                                                                          > considerable bigger tank,
                                                                                                                          > and keep an eye on their behaviour.
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Hrvoje
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                          > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                          > .
                                                                                                                          > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                          > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                          > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                          > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                          > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                          > matter
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10070 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Bow tanks
                                                                                                                          exactly what i said last week. they actually give a
                                                                                                                          clear view from any angle, not distortion.
                                                                                                                          --- bucks_boogie@... wrote:
                                                                                                                          > Bow front tanks do not distort, not to start an
                                                                                                                          > arguement. I have a 46
                                                                                                                          > in my bedroom, it is made of glass and it sits about
                                                                                                                          > 16 inches from my
                                                                                                                          > bed. I don't get a headache and none of the fish
                                                                                                                          > look abnormal. It's
                                                                                                                          > just a damn fine tank, especally with the increased
                                                                                                                          > surface area,
                                                                                                                          > allowing for more fish per gallon. My plecs are
                                                                                                                          > getting too big,
                                                                                                                          > though, and will need a new home soon. So anyone
                                                                                                                          > living in the Buffalo,
                                                                                                                          > NY area and has a big tank, I have a 10 inch albino
                                                                                                                          > chocolate and 2-7
                                                                                                                          > inch gibbicep plecos that need new homes, email me.
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >



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                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10071 From: rca2745@aol.com Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
                                                                                                                          This site is really good, Evita
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10072 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
                                                                                                                          http://www.liveaquaria.com i believe has a fish index.

                                                                                                                          --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:



                                                                                                                          Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10073 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
                                                                                                                          I don't know if ours is the exception or the rule, but we have a large
                                                                                                                          female angelfish, who has been alone since she was the size of a
                                                                                                                          nickle. Now she's about hand sized, and the only trouble we've had
                                                                                                                          with her is when she lays eggs and gets REALLY agressive. She's in a
                                                                                                                          mixed tank, and the only fish she has eaten and nipped at are the
                                                                                                                          guppies when they're babies. I actually appreciate that, because we
                                                                                                                          were becoming overrun by guppy babies.

                                                                                                                          > I know this post was a while ago but I was wondering one thing. Can
                                                                                                                          you keep one angel fish successfully without problems. Evita
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10074 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
                                                                                                                          from what i've noticed 1 angel may even be better for smaller tanks since they are so territorial.
                                                                                                                          little buggers!

                                                                                                                          --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                          > I know this post was a while ago but I was wondering one thing. Can you keep one angel fish
                                                                                                                          > successfully without problems. Evita
                                                                                                                          >


                                                                                                                          Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10075 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Bow tanks
                                                                                                                          i agree, none of my bows distorts the viewing.

                                                                                                                          --- bucks_boogie@... wrote:

                                                                                                                          > Bow front tanks do not distort, not to start an arguement. I have a 46
                                                                                                                          > in my bedroom, it is made of glass and it sits about 16 inches from my
                                                                                                                          > bed. I don't get a headache and none of the fish look abnormal. It's
                                                                                                                          > just a damn fine tank, especally with the increased surface area,
                                                                                                                          > allowing for more fish per gallon. My plecs are getting too big,
                                                                                                                          > though, and will need a new home soon. So anyone living in the Buffalo,
                                                                                                                          > NY area and has a big tank, I have a 10 inch albino chocolate and 2-7
                                                                                                                          > inch gibbicep plecos that need new homes, email me.
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >


                                                                                                                          Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10076 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                          i use it, too, it works great!

                                                                                                                          is bio spira by marineland used for the same thing? my hubby used it to help his sw tank along in
                                                                                                                          the beginning.

                                                                                                                          --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                          > stress zyme is the only thing i add, and as i
                                                                                                                          > said...100+ successes
                                                                                                                          > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > > Paul,
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > > Yep, stick with the tried and true. This works. You
                                                                                                                          > > need something to kick
                                                                                                                          > > off the cycle and get it going to completion.
                                                                                                                          > > Ammonia is what it is. Whether
                                                                                                                          > > you add it by using live animals, or go with the
                                                                                                                          > > fishless cycle as I
                                                                                                                          > > described, it will work. Add nothing, and nothing
                                                                                                                          > > happens.
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                          > > From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
                                                                                                                          > > Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 3:22 PM
                                                                                                                          > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                          > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Want to do it right!
                                                                                                                          > > Need all the help I can
                                                                                                                          > > get!
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > > i would never add ammonia to a tank, a very small
                                                                                                                          > > amount is needed in the cycle. i have been in the
                                                                                                                          > > industry for 4 years and in the hobby for more than
                                                                                                                          > > 12. i stick with what i know is safe, fool proof,
                                                                                                                          > > and
                                                                                                                          > > works. stress zyme is a my productof choice.
                                                                                                                          > > others
                                                                                                                          > > use fritz zyme or the like.
                                                                                                                          > > --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > > > Now I am confused do I or don't I add ammonia? I
                                                                                                                          > > > don't want to make any mistakes. Evita
                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                          > > > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:because it
                                                                                                                          > > is
                                                                                                                          > > > something people do to attempt to speed
                                                                                                                          > > > up the cycle.....imho not a good idea
                                                                                                                          > > > --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > > > > Thanks, Steve. Very informative. I think you
                                                                                                                          > > > must
                                                                                                                          > > > > be right about the water 35-40 years ago vs. now
                                                                                                                          > > > and
                                                                                                                          > > > > the difference in the fish. I also remember
                                                                                                                          > > both
                                                                                                                          > > > > her tank and pond had loads of fish in them. I
                                                                                                                          > > > went
                                                                                                                          > > > > to the pet shop Sat. and they never mentioned
                                                                                                                          > > > adding
                                                                                                                          > > > > the ammonia they just wanted me to add 2-3 hardy
                                                                                                                          > > > > fish. I told them I wanted to wait. They said
                                                                                                                          > > > with
                                                                                                                          > > > > the water conditioner starter I could add fish
                                                                                                                          > > in
                                                                                                                          > > > > three days and one week was fine. I could wait
                                                                                                                          > > 2
                                                                                                                          > > > > weeks to be safer but never mentioned adding
                                                                                                                          > > > > ammonia. I got several books also and none
                                                                                                                          > > talks
                                                                                                                          > > > > about this either. Why is this? Just
                                                                                                                          > > wondering.
                                                                                                                          > > > > Evita
                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                          > > > >
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                                                                                                                          > > > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                          > > > the topic of the original message modify the
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                                                                                                                          > > <-,
                                                                                                                          > > > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                          > > > matter
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                                                                                                                          > > replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                          > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                          > > that is not important to
                                                                                                                          > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original
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                                                                                                                          Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10077 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: salt water
                                                                                                                          what have you done so far? have you added live rock & live sand yet?

                                                                                                                          --- William Autry <paulandsue1@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Im starting my new sait water tank its 39 gallon first time trying
                                                                                                                          > salt water please help me
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >


                                                                                                                          Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10078 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                          just a thought - what if the cam is digital like a cam phone? can they actually then take the
                                                                                                                          camera/phone away from you?

                                                                                                                          just curious is all. most of the stores near me keep well-maintained tanks & fish so haven't had
                                                                                                                          to sneak photos of fish and/or tanks to sick humane society on them.

                                                                                                                          --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                          > it is not illegal to take pics unless posted or
                                                                                                                          > warned. oince a store warns you to not take pics,
                                                                                                                          > they are legally justified in seizing the film from
                                                                                                                          > the camera. learned that in old navy. they do not
                                                                                                                          > wanttheir displays copied, and have security personnel
                                                                                                                          > in large stores, like seattle to confiscate film.
                                                                                                                          > same is true in nevada and california. you can't be
                                                                                                                          > arrested for photography, but your film can be taken
                                                                                                                          > and you can be evicted.
                                                                                                                          > paul
                                                                                                                          > --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                          > <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                          > > I am not sure if it is illegal to take pictures
                                                                                                                          > > in a store that is
                                                                                                                          > > opened to the public, and if it is, I'm not sure if
                                                                                                                          > > it would be upheld
                                                                                                                          > > because of several court cases involving what is and
                                                                                                                          > > isn't proper. I know
                                                                                                                          > > that it is legal for cops to take pictures from
                                                                                                                          > > anywhere that is open to the
                                                                                                                          > > public, even if they are taking those pictures from
                                                                                                                          > > the air and the camera
                                                                                                                          > > is pointed at private or restricted property.
                                                                                                                          > > Perhaps the person should
                                                                                                                          > > look for a high quality camera and take pictures
                                                                                                                          > > from the side walk while
                                                                                                                          > > somebody opens the door?
                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                          > > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                          > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                          > > She had a pocket camera with her and was trying to
                                                                                                                          > > take some photo's of the Betta's. The pet shop
                                                                                                                          > > worker told here she couldn't take photo's in the
                                                                                                                          > > shop. I thought that they might call the law on
                                                                                                                          > > her. They had the Betta's in bags with the tiniest
                                                                                                                          > > amount of water in it. I usually see them in cups.
                                                                                                                          > > The problem was not just the amount of water but the
                                                                                                                          > > fact that some of the fish bags were on their sides
                                                                                                                          > > leaving almost no water covering the fish at all.
                                                                                                                          > > By the way their fish tanks were dirty and they had
                                                                                                                          > > mostly dead and dying fish. The workers just sit
                                                                                                                          > > and take the money. I don't think anyone really
                                                                                                                          > > works with care of the animals. In our area they
                                                                                                                          > > don't have any real laws protecting pet-shop
                                                                                                                          > > animals. They say food shelter is all they need.
                                                                                                                          > > Sad. Oh I would never buy fish there. I think the
                                                                                                                          > > only way to get these places is don't buy anything.
                                                                                                                          > > They have to have money to stay open. Thanks again
                                                                                                                          > > for answering my quetions. Evita
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                          Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10079 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Bow tanks
                                                                                                                          In a message dated 4/7/2005 12:26:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, valeendgonzalez@... writes:

                                                                                                                          i agree, none of my bows distorts the viewing.
                                                                                                                          Me too, although they are the smaller eclipse Bows, no distortion.
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          Mike
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10080 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Bow tanks
                                                                                                                          true, mine also. the largest i have is a an eclipse 12 which is my saltwater tank. my clown looks
                                                                                                                          great in it! =)

                                                                                                                          --- Deenerz@... wrote:

                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > In a message dated 4/7/2005 12:26:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                          > valeendgonzalez@... writes:
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > i agree, none of my bows distorts the viewing.
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Me too, although they are the smaller eclipse Bows, no distortion.
                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                          > Mike
                                                                                                                          >


                                                                                                                          Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10081 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Bow tanks
                                                                                                                          In a message dated 4/7/2005 1:53:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, valeendgonzalez@... writes:
                                                                                                                          true, mine also. the largest i have is a an eclipse 12 which is my saltwater tank. my clown looks
                                                                                                                          great in it! =)
                                                                                                                          Hi Valeen,
                                                                                                                          So you put your fish in the 12?
                                                                                                                          That's great, last time you and I wrote to each other you were cycling and getting ready to put your cleaning crew in the tank.  Sounds like the cycle went fine.  Does the clown look happy with the setup?
                                                                                                                          Got any pictures?
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          Mike
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10082 From: infomehlb Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: DIY Aquarium Canopies
                                                                                                                          Does anyone have some good resources for DIY aquarium canopies?
                                                                                                                          Thanks
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10083 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Bow tanks
                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                            hi mike,

                                                                                                                            yep the cycle finished with no problems. we added the clown on the 30th. these photos were taken
                                                                                                                            the day after that. i have more photos of the clown i took last night while he was sleeping that
                                                                                                                            are even better but i haven't downloaded them off the cam yet. when i do i'll post them. let me
                                                                                                                            know what you think.

                                                                                                                            on nano-reef.com there's been some debate about the health of the anemone, but it looks to us and
                                                                                                                            one of our friends that it's fine. we feed it mysis shrimp that we also feed the clown. it shoved
                                                                                                                            itself into a crevice in the back after the photo was taken and the porcelain anemone crab is
                                                                                                                            hosting it right now. addidas - the clown - hasn't hosted it so far and most think he won't
                                                                                                                            because apparently pink tip hatian anemones don't usually appeal to clowns. woops, wish the store
                                                                                                                            had told us that before we bought it. oh well, the crab likes it!

                                                                                                                            -v

                                                                                                                            --- Deenerz@aol.com wrote:

                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > In a message dated 4/7/2005 1:53:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                            > valeendgonzalez@yahoo.com writes:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > true, mine also. the largest i have is a an eclipse 12 which is my saltwater
                                                                                                                            > tank. my clown looks
                                                                                                                            > great in it! =)
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Hi Valeen,
                                                                                                                            > So you put your fish in the 12?
                                                                                                                            > That's great, last time you and I wrote to each other you were cycling and
                                                                                                                            > getting ready to put your cleaning crew in the tank. Sounds like the cycle
                                                                                                                            > went fine. Does the clown look happy with the setup?
                                                                                                                            > Got any pictures?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Mike
                                                                                                                            >


                                                                                                                            Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10084 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Bow tanks
                                                                                                                            some clowns will use the pink tips as host anemones,
                                                                                                                            some will not. it is technically a host anemone..just
                                                                                                                            not a favored one



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                                                                                                                            Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun.
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10085 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                            they can't keep the phone, but can force you to clear
                                                                                                                            the pictures.
                                                                                                                            --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > just a thought - what if the cam is digital like a
                                                                                                                            > cam phone? can they actually then take the
                                                                                                                            > camera/phone away from you?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > just curious is all. most of the stores near me keep
                                                                                                                            > well-maintained tanks & fish so haven't had
                                                                                                                            > to sneak photos of fish and/or tanks to sick humane
                                                                                                                            > society on them.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > > it is not illegal to take pics unless posted or
                                                                                                                            > > warned. oince a store warns you to not take pics,
                                                                                                                            > > they are legally justified in seizing the film
                                                                                                                            > from
                                                                                                                            > > the camera. learned that in old navy. they do
                                                                                                                            > not
                                                                                                                            > > wanttheir displays copied, and have security
                                                                                                                            > personnel
                                                                                                                            > > in large stores, like seattle to confiscate film.
                                                                                                                            > > same is true in nevada and california. you can't
                                                                                                                            > be
                                                                                                                            > > arrested for photography, but your film can be
                                                                                                                            > taken
                                                                                                                            > > and you can be evicted.
                                                                                                                            > > paul
                                                                                                                            > > --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                            > > <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > > > I am not sure if it is illegal to take
                                                                                                                            > pictures
                                                                                                                            > > > in a store that is
                                                                                                                            > > > opened to the public, and if it is, I'm not sure
                                                                                                                            > if
                                                                                                                            > > > it would be upheld
                                                                                                                            > > > because of several court cases involving what is
                                                                                                                            > and
                                                                                                                            > > > isn't proper. I know
                                                                                                                            > > > that it is legal for cops to take pictures from
                                                                                                                            > > > anywhere that is open to the
                                                                                                                            > > > public, even if they are taking those pictures
                                                                                                                            > from
                                                                                                                            > > > the air and the camera
                                                                                                                            > > > is pointed at private or restricted property.
                                                                                                                            > > > Perhaps the person should
                                                                                                                            > > > look for a high quality camera and take pictures
                                                                                                                            > > > from the side walk while
                                                                                                                            > > > somebody opens the door?
                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            > > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            > > > She had a pocket camera with her and was trying
                                                                                                                            > to
                                                                                                                            > > > take some photo's of the Betta's. The pet shop
                                                                                                                            > > > worker told here she couldn't take photo's in
                                                                                                                            > the
                                                                                                                            > > > shop. I thought that they might call the law on
                                                                                                                            > > > her. They had the Betta's in bags with the
                                                                                                                            > tiniest
                                                                                                                            > > > amount of water in it. I usually see them in
                                                                                                                            > cups.
                                                                                                                            > > > The problem was not just the amount of water but
                                                                                                                            > the
                                                                                                                            > > > fact that some of the fish bags were on their
                                                                                                                            > sides
                                                                                                                            > > > leaving almost no water covering the fish at
                                                                                                                            > all.
                                                                                                                            > > > By the way their fish tanks were dirty and they
                                                                                                                            > had
                                                                                                                            > > > mostly dead and dying fish. The workers just
                                                                                                                            > sit
                                                                                                                            > > > and take the money. I don't think anyone really
                                                                                                                            > > > works with care of the animals. In our area
                                                                                                                            > they
                                                                                                                            > > > don't have any real laws protecting pet-shop
                                                                                                                            > > > animals. They say food shelter is all they
                                                                                                                            > need.
                                                                                                                            > > > Sad. Oh I would never buy fish there. I think
                                                                                                                            > the
                                                                                                                            > > > only way to get these places is don't buy
                                                                                                                            > anything.
                                                                                                                            > > > They have to have money to stay open. Thanks
                                                                                                                            > again
                                                                                                                            > > > for answering my quetions. Evita
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                            > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                            > > Make Yahoo! your home page
                                                                                                                            > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >



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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10086 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                            bio spira is supposed to be instant...by all
                                                                                                                            biological rights it should not work that way, but
                                                                                                                            some people insist they have had luck...unfortunately
                                                                                                                            it has not been around long enough to be fully tested
                                                                                                                            to my satisfaction.
                                                                                                                            --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                            > i use it, too, it works great!
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > is bio spira by marineland used for the same thing?
                                                                                                                            > my hubby used it to help his sw tank along in
                                                                                                                            > the beginning.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > > stress zyme is the only thing i add, and as i
                                                                                                                            > > said...100+ successes
                                                                                                                            > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > > > Paul,
                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > Yep, stick with the tried and true. This works.
                                                                                                                            > You
                                                                                                                            > > > need something to kick
                                                                                                                            > > > off the cycle and get it going to completion.
                                                                                                                            > > > Ammonia is what it is. Whether
                                                                                                                            > > > you add it by using live animals, or go with the
                                                                                                                            > > > fishless cycle as I
                                                                                                                            > > > described, it will work. Add nothing, and
                                                                                                                            > nothing
                                                                                                                            > > > happens.
                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            > > > From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
                                                                                                                            > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 3:22 PM
                                                                                                                            > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Want to do it
                                                                                                                            > right!
                                                                                                                            > > > Need all the help I can
                                                                                                                            > > > get!
                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > i would never add ammonia to a tank, a very
                                                                                                                            > small
                                                                                                                            > > > amount is needed in the cycle. i have been in
                                                                                                                            > the
                                                                                                                            > > > industry for 4 years and in the hobby for more
                                                                                                                            > than
                                                                                                                            > > > 12. i stick with what i know is safe, fool
                                                                                                                            > proof,
                                                                                                                            > > > and
                                                                                                                            > > > works. stress zyme is a my productof choice.
                                                                                                                            > > > others
                                                                                                                            > > > use fritz zyme or the like.
                                                                                                                            > > > --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > > > > Now I am confused do I or don't I add ammonia?
                                                                                                                            > I
                                                                                                                            > > > > don't want to make any mistakes. Evita
                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:because
                                                                                                                            > it
                                                                                                                            > > > is
                                                                                                                            > > > > something people do to attempt to speed
                                                                                                                            > > > > up the cycle.....imho not a good idea
                                                                                                                            > > > > --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > > > > > Thanks, Steve. Very informative. I think
                                                                                                                            > you
                                                                                                                            > > > > must
                                                                                                                            > > > > > be right about the water 35-40 years ago vs.
                                                                                                                            > now
                                                                                                                            > > > > and
                                                                                                                            > > > > > the difference in the fish. I also remember
                                                                                                                            > > > both
                                                                                                                            > > > > > her tank and pond had loads of fish in them.
                                                                                                                            > I
                                                                                                                            > > > > went
                                                                                                                            > > > > > to the pet shop Sat. and they never
                                                                                                                            > mentioned
                                                                                                                            > > > > adding
                                                                                                                            > > > > > the ammonia they just wanted me to add 2-3
                                                                                                                            > hardy
                                                                                                                            > > > > > fish. I told them I wanted to wait. They
                                                                                                                            > said
                                                                                                                            > > > > with
                                                                                                                            > > > > > the water conditioner starter I could add
                                                                                                                            > fish
                                                                                                                            > > > in
                                                                                                                            > > > > > three days and one week was fine. I could
                                                                                                                            > wait
                                                                                                                            > > > 2
                                                                                                                            > > > > > weeks to be safer but never mentioned adding
                                                                                                                            > > > > > ammonia. I got several books also and none
                                                                                                                            > > > talks
                                                                                                                            > > > > > about this either. Why is this? Just
                                                                                                                            > > > wondering.
                                                                                                                            > > > > > Evita
                                                                                                                            > > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > > > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                                            > > > > Please delete this line and everything below
                                                                                                                            > it
                                                                                                                            > > > when
                                                                                                                            > > > > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            > > > > .
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                                                                                                                            > text
                                                                                                                            > > > > that is not important to the reply and if
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                                                                                                                            > > > > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                            > subject)"
                                                                                                                            > > > <-,
                                                                                                                            > > > > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                            > > > > matter
                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                                            > when
                                                                                                                            > > > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            > > > .
                                                                                                                            > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all
                                                                                                                            > text
                                                                                                                            > > > that is not important to
                                                                                                                            > > > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                                                            > original
                                                                                                                            > > > message modify the
                                                                                                                            > > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                            > > > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                            > > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                            > > >
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                                                                                                                            > > >
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                                                                                                                            > Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >




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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10087 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
                                                                                                                            taht is the only time angels should be aggressive,
                                                                                                                            when they are breeding
                                                                                                                            --- cynthia brennemann <brennewoman@...>
                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > I don't know if ours is the exception or the rule,
                                                                                                                            > but we have a large
                                                                                                                            > female angelfish, who has been alone since she was
                                                                                                                            > the size of a
                                                                                                                            > nickle. Now she's about hand sized, and the only
                                                                                                                            > trouble we've had
                                                                                                                            > with her is when she lays eggs and gets REALLY
                                                                                                                            > agressive. She's in a
                                                                                                                            > mixed tank, and the only fish she has eaten and
                                                                                                                            > nipped at are the
                                                                                                                            > guppies when they're babies. I actually appreciate
                                                                                                                            > that, because we
                                                                                                                            > were becoming overrun by guppy babies.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > > I know this post was a while ago but I was
                                                                                                                            > wondering one thing. Can
                                                                                                                            > you keep one angel fish successfully without
                                                                                                                            > problems. Evita
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >



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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10088 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                                What if you text the pictures to an outside phone before they tell you to stop?  Can they hunt down the other phone? :)
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            they can't keep the phone, but can force you to clear the pictures.
                                                                                                                            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10089 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                                According to the people I have talked to on-line (several people, several places) that used it, it works because it doesn't have enzymes that help the cycle, it has live bacteria and ammonia to complete the cycle.  Add the bottle, and it is the same as having all the bacteria and food for the tank to be fully cycled, in 1 or 2 days, not instant.  And it requires a constant source of ammonia (fish) to keep it going during that time, so fishless use is not going to work. 
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            bio spira is supposed to be instant...by all
                                                                                                                            biological rights it should not work that way, but
                                                                                                                            some people insist they have had luck...unfortunately
                                                                                                                            it has not been around long enough to be fully tested
                                                                                                                            to my satisfaction.
                                                                                                                            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10090 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
                                                                                                                            I just took a look at that site, and chose the compatibility button. I went
                                                                                                                            down the list and found a fish that I know does best by itself, but there
                                                                                                                            are a few species that can be kept with it. There was an amazing range of
                                                                                                                            "compatible fishes" listed. If you tried to keep some of these fish
                                                                                                                            together, you would have a war on your hands until there was a winner. The
                                                                                                                            only compatibility I saw were the temperature and pH ranges. Not a good way
                                                                                                                            to choose fish.

                                                                                                                            Looking at the links, the fish I chose was _Julidochromis transcriptus_,
                                                                                                                            which I always kept in a species tank. The description gives a Temperament
                                                                                                                            line that says, of this fish, "Reclusive, aggressive, and territorial". A
                                                                                                                            few listings away is a puffer, _Carinotetraodon travancoricus_. One thing
                                                                                                                            that distinguishes puffers from other fish is that they have teeth
                                                                                                                            (actually, most fish have teeth, but they are not always visible) and know
                                                                                                                            how to use them. The Temperament of this fish is listed as: "This species,
                                                                                                                            although small, is aggressive and an avid fin-nipper."

                                                                                                                            OK, now we have two small fish, both are, or can be aggressive. Put these
                                                                                                                            two together and you are going to have at least nipped fins, but more likely
                                                                                                                            worse.

                                                                                                                            I'd not recommend this site to anyone.

                                                                                                                            \\Steve//
                                                                                                                            ________________________________

                                                                                                                            From: rca2745@... [mailto:rca2745@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:14 PM
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Angry Angel Fish


                                                                                                                            This site is really good, Evita

                                                                                                                            FishProfiles.com - Complete Online Aquaria Resource
                                                                                                                            <http://www.fishprofiles.com/>


                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                            the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                            subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                            in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10091 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: How Many Fish
                                                                                                                            A short time ago we had a discussion of the one inch rule here. I posted a
                                                                                                                            question to another list asking if anyone knew where this rule had
                                                                                                                            originated, and I have posted parts of the answers from that thread here, in
                                                                                                                            other threads covering the topic, among other things. Naturally, lists being
                                                                                                                            what they are, the topic widened somewhat and here is, in full, a post that
                                                                                                                            was written by Albert Klee. Albert Klee is a man who has been around the
                                                                                                                            hobby for a long time. He has written many articles for publications, has
                                                                                                                            been an editor of many magazines in the hobby and, for a time, editor and
                                                                                                                            publisher himself of the magazine "Aquarium Illustrated", no longer with us,
                                                                                                                            and has written books. His published works go back, I believe, to 1950 with
                                                                                                                            his first article being published in "The Aquarium". (I said he has been
                                                                                                                            around for a while.) I asked him for permission to post his message here,
                                                                                                                            and he graciously allowed me to do so.

                                                                                                                            =======================================

                                                                                                                            When we ask how many fish that an aquarium can support, we are in effect
                                                                                                                            asking how many fish can be added before we get to a dangerously low oxygen
                                                                                                                            level. You have already suspected (and you would be correct) that this is
                                                                                                                            not a simple calculation. Of even more interest is that neither those who
                                                                                                                            favor a calculation based strictly on surface area nor those who favor a
                                                                                                                            calculation based strictly on volume are correct. As it turns out both
                                                                                                                            volume and surface area are important for the simple reason that not only
                                                                                                                            must oxygen be transferred from the air-water interface, it also must travel
                                                                                                                            through the water. I'll try to explain by the following but I warn you, it
                                                                                                                            might be tough sledding.

                                                                                                                            For aquaria in which there is reasonably uniform mixing, the rate of change
                                                                                                                            of dissolved oxygen at any time, t, is directly proportional to the
                                                                                                                            difference between the saturation concentration, Cs and the concentration,
                                                                                                                            C, in the water. Plowing through the equilibrium equations, C can be
                                                                                                                            calculated by the following,

                                                                                                                            C = exp(-Kt)*C0 + [(1 – exp(-Kt)(KCs – K1)]K

                                                                                                                            where K is the overall absorption coefficient, C0 is the initial
                                                                                                                            concentration of dissolved oxygen, and K1 is the rate at which fish consume
                                                                                                                            oxygen. I have simplified the equation and removed two additional rate
                                                                                                                            constants that involve plants since in this example I am assuming the
                                                                                                                            aquarium does not contain plants.

                                                                                                                            Consider an aquarium with a volume of 200 liters and an exposed surface of
                                                                                                                            5,000 sq cm (this is roughly a 53 gallon tank, 48 x 16 x 16 inches). Because
                                                                                                                            I have the data for this fish I'll assume that there are 10 brook trout,
                                                                                                                            each weighting 25 gm and consuming oxygen at a rate of 100 ml oxygen/ kg. of
                                                                                                                            fish per hour. I'll also assume the
                                                                                                                            temperature and barometric pressure is such that the solubility of oxygen is
                                                                                                                            10 ppm. These are all reasonably approximate numbers based upon experimental
                                                                                                                            data.

                                                                                                                            The value of K depends BOTH on the volume of water, V, and the area of the
                                                                                                                            exposed surface, A. (The ratio V/A being sometimes referred to as the
                                                                                                                            "aeration depth.") The actual equation is:

                                                                                                                            K = f*A/V

                                                                                                                            For water where there is only a slight disturbance at the surface the value
                                                                                                                            of f can be taken to be approximately 1.0 cm/h. Applying the equation for K
                                                                                                                            and remembering to change the volume in liters to ml, K is 0.025/h.

                                                                                                                            Now all we have to do is calculate the oxygen consumption of the fish, K1,
                                                                                                                            in ppm/h.

                                                                                                                            Factoring in the weight of oxygen (oxygen has a density of 1.43 gm/l at
                                                                                                                            25°C), K1 = (10 x 25)* 100*1.43/(1000*100) = 0.36 ppm/h. Therefore,
                                                                                                                            0.025(10-C) = 0.36 and C = 4.4 ppm (kind of low for trout). This is the
                                                                                                                            equilibrium concentration and in theory will be reached only after an
                                                                                                                            infinite time but it can be shown (and I won't go into the equations here)
                                                                                                                            that if the water is initially saturated with oxygen a concentration within
                                                                                                                            about 0.1 ppm of the equilibrium value will be reached in about 85.5 hours.

                                                                                                                            Note additional equations are available to calculate C:
                                                                                                                            (1) After a partial or full water change;
                                                                                                                            (2) Aeration is added (at various rates, in ml/min), which, by the way,
                                                                                                                            increases the value of K substantially; and
                                                                                                                            (3) Plants are added (based upon leaf area, the data being available for
                                                                                                                            some familiar plants such as Valisneria spiralis).

                                                                                                                            I have investigated various scenarios and the results are interesting. For
                                                                                                                            example, it is inadvisable to attempt to improve conditions in an aquarium
                                                                                                                            having a moderate rate of solution from the air (K - 0.3 to 0.5) in
                                                                                                                            combination with a relatively high rate of absorption by fish, by
                                                                                                                            introducing a high rate of photosynthesis (i.e., adding plants and providing
                                                                                                                            light for optimal growth), since under these conditions the dissolved oxygen
                                                                                                                            will fluctuate quite widely about an already low level (because of the
                                                                                                                            carbon dioxide) and may well fall below the tolerance level at night,
                                                                                                                            although it may be that fish can withstand and thrive in conditions in which
                                                                                                                            the dissolved oxygen falls below the tolerance level for short periods but
                                                                                                                            in which the daily average concentration is high.

                                                                                                                            One can understand why guidelines based upon volume or surface are used for
                                                                                                                            beginners. The type and size of the fish, the dimensions of the tank, the
                                                                                                                            presence or absence of aeration and/or plants all contribute to determining
                                                                                                                            what can safely be added to the aquarium. No simple rule can answer the
                                                                                                                            question with exactitude, although tables might do a better job. We as more
                                                                                                                            advanced aquarists manage by experience. Experience, however, is often
                                                                                                                            attained only after failure.

                                                                                                                            =============================================

                                                                                                                            As you can see, the formulae presented here are just a few of the many that
                                                                                                                            can go into determining how many fish can fit into that tank. The one inch
                                                                                                                            per fish rule is nothing more than a useless simplification that may, or may
                                                                                                                            not, work, depending on the fish and other factors.

                                                                                                                            I do like his last couple of lines here. He puts it quite graciously.
                                                                                                                            Usually it is said that the difference between a novice and advance aquarist
                                                                                                                            is in the price of the fish they kill (and I have killed at least my fair
                                                                                                                            share over the years.).

                                                                                                                            If you have taken the time to get this far, I will state that I am willing
                                                                                                                            to pass along to Albert, a few questions, should anyone find it necessary to
                                                                                                                            ask them, that pertain to his post. I do not wish to over burden a man who
                                                                                                                            has been kind and generous with his time to put this (as well as many other
                                                                                                                            articles, most of an historical look at our hobby) into an electronic format
                                                                                                                            to share with us.

                                                                                                                            \\Steve//
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10092 From: rca2745@aol.com Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Angry Angel Fish
                                                                                                                            Well, in defense of the people who run that site it does make a disclaimer about using common sense--In my opinion a rare item these days....
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10093 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Ghost shrimps with eggs care info please
                                                                                                                            Hello,
                                                                                                                            I brought home some ghost shrimps and one had eggs well now looking
                                                                                                                            another has eggs now. How do you care for babies? will they hatch, how
                                                                                                                            do you know if they are infertile? Any info thanks
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10094 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Ghost shrimps with eggs care info please
                                                                                                                            if the eggs are there, they should be fertile. shrimp
                                                                                                                            don't usually develop eggs unlessa male is there.
                                                                                                                            the baby shrimp will more than likely be eaten as soon
                                                                                                                            as they go free swimming
                                                                                                                            --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Hello,
                                                                                                                            > I brought home some ghost shrimps and one had eggs
                                                                                                                            > well now looking
                                                                                                                            > another has eggs now. How do you care for babies?
                                                                                                                            > will they hatch, how
                                                                                                                            > do you know if they are infertile? Any info thanks
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >



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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10095 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                            nope

                                                                                                                            --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                            <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > What if you text the pictures to an outside
                                                                                                                            > phone before they tell you
                                                                                                                            > to stop? Can they hunt down the other phone? :)
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            > they can't keep the phone, but can force you to
                                                                                                                            > clear the pictures.



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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10096 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Ghost shrimps with eggs care info please
                                                                                                                            OK, thanks, who would eat the babies? The parents or the fish? For now
                                                                                                                            this is only about 15 guppy fry only 2-6 weeks old. Tiny still. Thanks
                                                                                                                            again I'll let you know if I find any babies.


                                                                                                                            > if the eggs are there, they should be fertile. shrimp
                                                                                                                            > don't usually develop eggs unlessa male is there.
                                                                                                                            > the baby shrimp will more than likely be eaten as soon
                                                                                                                            > as they go free swimming
                                                                                                                            > --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > Hello,
                                                                                                                            > > I brought home some ghost shrimps and one had eggs
                                                                                                                            > > well now looking
                                                                                                                            > > another has eggs now. How do you care for babies?
                                                                                                                            > > will they hatch, how
                                                                                                                            > > do you know if they are infertile? Any info thanks
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10097 From: lemiwinks_86 Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: new to saltwater tanks
                                                                                                                            hey everyone!:) i'm new to saltwater tanks. i have researched how to
                                                                                                                            take care of one and everything, but i had a few questions for some of
                                                                                                                            you who are experienced. i currently have a hexagon shaped 10 gallon
                                                                                                                            tank that i'm using as a freshwater aquarium. i want to use that one
                                                                                                                            for my saltwater tank. is it okay to use such a small tank that has
                                                                                                                            more space vertically than horizontally? does anyone have any
                                                                                                                            suggestions for good equiptment to use for this tank that isn't too
                                                                                                                            expensive?

                                                                                                                            thanx!
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10098 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: new to saltwater tanks
                                                                                                                            I'd suggest visiting  www.nano-reef.com
                                                                                                                            you will find all kinds of usefull info there.
                                                                                                                            They aslo have a very helpful forum. Please be kind and read through the forum before asking questions,as Most questions you should be asking have been asked and answered.
                                                                                                                            A 10 gallon Hex is big enough, most freshwater equipment can be used in saltwater tanks.




                                                                                                                            In a message dated 4/8/2005 12:11:42 AM US Eastern Standard Time, lemiwinks_86@...
                                                                                                                            writes:



                                                                                                                            hey everyone!:) i'm new to saltwater tanks. i have researched how to
                                                                                                                            take care of one and everything, but i had a few questions for some of
                                                                                                                            you who are experienced. i currently have a hexagon shaped 10 gallon
                                                                                                                            tank that i'm using as a freshwater aquarium. i want to use that one
                                                                                                                            for my saltwater tank. is it okay to use such a small tank that has
                                                                                                                            more space vertically than horizontally? does anyone have any
                                                                                                                            suggestions for good equiptment to use for this tank that isn't too
                                                                                                                            expensive?

                                                                                                                            thanx!


                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10099 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: new to saltwater tanks
                                                                                                                            the only equipment that you will need is a protein
                                                                                                                            skimmer, which will run you about $100.00. that is
                                                                                                                            the most important piece of equipment in a saltwater
                                                                                                                            tank. second thing is taht youwill only be able to
                                                                                                                            keep 3-4 fish in that tank. they will all have to be
                                                                                                                            small. maybe a pair of percula clowns, a goby or too,
                                                                                                                            or a dragonett 9mandarin goby) gold coral banded
                                                                                                                            shrimp, a few snails, a few hermits. i suggest a pair
                                                                                                                            of perculas and a sal fin coby along with select
                                                                                                                            inverts to keep the tank clean. do not use a ugf in
                                                                                                                            salt water. you really have nothing transferable from
                                                                                                                            salt to fresh except for pump for water circulation.
                                                                                                                            i would suggest a red sea prizm skimmer or a sea clone
                                                                                                                            100 for your skimmer.
                                                                                                                            --- lemiwinks_86 <lemiwinks_86@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > hey everyone!:) i'm new to saltwater tanks. i have
                                                                                                                            > researched how to
                                                                                                                            > take care of one and everything, but i had a few
                                                                                                                            > questions for some of
                                                                                                                            > you who are experienced. i currently have a hexagon
                                                                                                                            > shaped 10 gallon
                                                                                                                            > tank that i'm using as a freshwater aquarium. i want
                                                                                                                            > to use that one
                                                                                                                            > for my saltwater tank. is it okay to use such a
                                                                                                                            > small tank that has
                                                                                                                            > more space vertically than horizontally? does anyone
                                                                                                                            > have any
                                                                                                                            > suggestions for good equiptment to use for this tank
                                                                                                                            > that isn't too
                                                                                                                            > expensive?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > thanx!
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >



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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10100 From: paul helms Date: 4/7/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Ghost shrimps with eggs care info please
                                                                                                                            guppies will when they get bigger.
                                                                                                                            --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > OK, thanks, who would eat the babies? The parents or
                                                                                                                            > the fish? For now
                                                                                                                            > this is only about 15 guppy fry only 2-6 weeks old.
                                                                                                                            > Tiny still. Thanks
                                                                                                                            > again I'll let you know if I find any babies.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > > if the eggs are there, they should be fertile.
                                                                                                                            > shrimp
                                                                                                                            > > don't usually develop eggs unlessa male is there.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > > the baby shrimp will more than likely be eaten as
                                                                                                                            > soon
                                                                                                                            > > as they go free swimming
                                                                                                                            > > --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > Hello,
                                                                                                                            > > > I brought home some ghost shrimps and one had
                                                                                                                            > eggs
                                                                                                                            > > > well now looking
                                                                                                                            > > > another has eggs now. How do you care for
                                                                                                                            > babies?
                                                                                                                            > > > will they hatch, how
                                                                                                                            > > > do you know if they are infertile? Any info
                                                                                                                            > thanks
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >



                                                                                                                            __________________________________
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                                                                                                                            http://personals.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10101 From: harry perry Date: 4/8/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Algae control. Your opinions please.
                                                                                                                            Some folks are using "Flourish Excel" to control algae. They are using 2X the dose for 3 or 4 days and then the regular dose. Of course we are helping our live plants outcompete the algae for neutrients but used on a regular basis it keeps the tanks clean. A clean tank(no algae) in a few weeks. Works for me.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Harry

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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10102 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/8/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please.

                                                                                                                            Harry,

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            My experience is as below:

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Tank: 260L, fish load: approx 130”, Flourite substrate, Loads of plants (Hygrophilla difformis, polusperma, stricta), Echinodorous (Rose, Amazonicus, ozelot red, parviflorous), Hydrocotyle sp, crypt wenditii, petchii, beketii, parva, lillaeopsis, bacopa Carolina, myriophyllum tuberculum, myriophyllum green, mayaca fluvitalis, cabomba Carolina, java moss & ferns, ludwigia repens.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            This tank has 2x 40W t8 fluorescents and 2x 75W Halides. Pressurised CO2, Sacem 1500 canister filter, Juwel compact filter.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Plant growth was phenominol with CO2 but it lacked the natural look. Plants growing long and not too condensed. No Excel was put in the tank as CO2 was itself great. Had a lot of green spot algae and dust algae along with surface scum,

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            I did some change. Switched off the Fluorescents. Switched off CO2 and created lots of surface agitation. Plants still pearling, no surface scum but loads of GSA and dust algae. One day I dosed excel and cleaned the glass. Plants did not pearl much this time but still grew as they were growing but the algae actually reduced. I did not dose for a few days and algae was more then what I had when I was pushing CO2. Dosed with flourish again and the algae stopped for 2 days to where it was and then started growing again.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            It had a major effect on Java moss. Java moss is now growing faster then hygrophylla. Strange and it is growing more like xmas moss or Taiwan moss rather then long stringy stuff.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                            From: harry perry [mailto:harryfisherman@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: 08 April 2005 17:23
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae control. Your opinions please.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Some folks are using "Flourish Excel" to control algae. They are using 2X the dose for 3 or 4 days and then the regular dose. Of course we are helping our live plants outcompete the algae for neutrients but used on a regular basis it keeps the tanks clean. A clean tank(no algae) in a few weeks. Works for me.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Harry

                                                                                                                            __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10103 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/8/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Want to do it right! Need all the help I can get!
                                                                                                                            hm, i don't know about instant, but it seemd to help the cycle along. i don't know if it was
                                                                                                                            instant because our sw tank had to cycle at least a month anyway before we even added the cleanup
                                                                                                                            crew. i've never tried it in fw. i wonder if it really works in fw tanks.

                                                                                                                            --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                            > bio spira is supposed to be instant...by all
                                                                                                                            > biological rights it should not work that way, but
                                                                                                                            > some people insist they have had luck...unfortunately
                                                                                                                            > it has not been around long enough to be fully tested
                                                                                                                            > to my satisfaction.
                                                                                                                            > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > > i use it, too, it works great!
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > is bio spira by marineland used for the same thing?
                                                                                                                            > > my hubby used it to help his sw tank along in
                                                                                                                            > > the beginning.
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > > stress zyme is the only thing i add, and as i
                                                                                                                            > > > said...100+ successes
                                                                                                                            > > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > > > > Paul,
                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > > Yep, stick with the tried and true. This works.
                                                                                                                            > > You
                                                                                                                            > > > > need something to kick
                                                                                                                            > > > > off the cycle and get it going to completion.
                                                                                                                            > > > > Ammonia is what it is. Whether
                                                                                                                            > > > > you add it by using live animals, or go with the
                                                                                                                            > > > > fishless cycle as I
                                                                                                                            > > > > described, it will work. Add nothing, and
                                                                                                                            > > nothing
                                                                                                                            > > > > happens.
                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            > > > > From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
                                                                                                                            > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 3:22 PM
                                                                                                                            > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Want to do it
                                                                                                                            > > right!
                                                                                                                            > > > > Need all the help I can
                                                                                                                            > > > > get!
                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > > i would never add ammonia to a tank, a very
                                                                                                                            > > small
                                                                                                                            > > > > amount is needed in the cycle. i have been in
                                                                                                                            > > the
                                                                                                                            > > > > industry for 4 years and in the hobby for more
                                                                                                                            > > than
                                                                                                                            > > > > 12. i stick with what i know is safe, fool
                                                                                                                            > > proof,
                                                                                                                            > > > > and
                                                                                                                            > > > > works. stress zyme is a my productof choice.
                                                                                                                            > > > > others
                                                                                                                            > > > > use fritz zyme or the like.
                                                                                                                            > > > > --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > > > > > Now I am confused do I or don't I add ammonia?
                                                                                                                            > > I
                                                                                                                            > > > > > don't want to make any mistakes. Evita
                                                                                                                            > > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > > > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:because
                                                                                                                            > > it
                                                                                                                            > > > > is
                                                                                                                            > > > > > something people do to attempt to speed
                                                                                                                            > > > > > up the cycle.....imho not a good idea
                                                                                                                            > > > > > --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > > > > > > Thanks, Steve. Very informative. I think
                                                                                                                            > > you
                                                                                                                            > > > > > must
                                                                                                                            > > > > > > be right about the water 35-40 years ago vs.
                                                                                                                            > > now
                                                                                                                            > > > > > and
                                                                                                                            > > > > > > the difference in the fish. I also remember
                                                                                                                            > > > > both
                                                                                                                            > > > > > > her tank and pond had loads of fish in them.
                                                                                                                            > > I
                                                                                                                            > > > > > went
                                                                                                                            > > > > > > to the pet shop Sat. and they never
                                                                                                                            > > mentioned
                                                                                                                            > > > > > adding
                                                                                                                            > > > > > > the ammonia they just wanted me to add 2-3
                                                                                                                            > > hardy
                                                                                                                            > > > > > > fish. I told them I wanted to wait. They
                                                                                                                            > > said
                                                                                                                            > > > > > with
                                                                                                                            > > > > > > the water conditioner starter I could add
                                                                                                                            > > fish
                                                                                                                            > > > > in
                                                                                                                            > > > > > > three days and one week was fine. I could
                                                                                                                            > > wait
                                                                                                                            > > > > 2
                                                                                                                            > > > > > > weeks to be safer but never mentioned adding
                                                                                                                            > > > > > > ammonia. I got several books also and none
                                                                                                                            > > > > talks
                                                                                                                            > > > > > > about this either. Why is this? Just
                                                                                                                            > > > > wondering.
                                                                                                                            > > > > > > Evita
                                                                                                                            > > > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > > > > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                                            > > text
                                                                                                                            > > > > > that is not important to the reply and if
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                                                                                                                            > > text
                                                                                                                            > > > > that is not important to
                                                                                                                            > > > > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                                                            > > original
                                                                                                                            > > > > message modify the
                                                                                                                            > > > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                            > > > > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                            > > > > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                            Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10104 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/8/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                            hm, i'll have to be stealthy if i ever have to take photos for proof of bad fishkeeping in lfs's.

                                                                                                                            --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                            > they can't keep the phone, but can force you to clear
                                                                                                                            > the pictures.
                                                                                                                            > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > > just a thought - what if the cam is digital like a
                                                                                                                            > > cam phone? can they actually then take the
                                                                                                                            > > camera/phone away from you?
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > just curious is all. most of the stores near me keep
                                                                                                                            > > well-maintained tanks & fish so haven't had
                                                                                                                            > > to sneak photos of fish and/or tanks to sick humane
                                                                                                                            > > society on them.
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > > it is not illegal to take pics unless posted or
                                                                                                                            > > > warned. oince a store warns you to not take pics,
                                                                                                                            > > > they are legally justified in seizing the film
                                                                                                                            > > from
                                                                                                                            > > > the camera. learned that in old navy. they do
                                                                                                                            > > not
                                                                                                                            > > > wanttheir displays copied, and have security
                                                                                                                            > > personnel
                                                                                                                            > > > in large stores, like seattle to confiscate film.
                                                                                                                            > > > same is true in nevada and california. you can't
                                                                                                                            > > be
                                                                                                                            > > > arrested for photography, but your film can be
                                                                                                                            > > taken
                                                                                                                            > > > and you can be evicted.
                                                                                                                            > > > paul
                                                                                                                            > > > --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                            > > > <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > > > > I am not sure if it is illegal to take
                                                                                                                            > > pictures
                                                                                                                            > > > > in a store that is
                                                                                                                            > > > > opened to the public, and if it is, I'm not sure
                                                                                                                            > > if
                                                                                                                            > > > > it would be upheld
                                                                                                                            > > > > because of several court cases involving what is
                                                                                                                            > > and
                                                                                                                            > > > > isn't proper. I know
                                                                                                                            > > > > that it is legal for cops to take pictures from
                                                                                                                            > > > > anywhere that is open to the
                                                                                                                            > > > > public, even if they are taking those pictures
                                                                                                                            > > from
                                                                                                                            > > > > the air and the camera
                                                                                                                            > > > > is pointed at private or restricted property.
                                                                                                                            > > > > Perhaps the person should
                                                                                                                            > > > > look for a high quality camera and take pictures
                                                                                                                            > > > > from the side walk while
                                                                                                                            > > > > somebody opens the door?
                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            > > > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            > > > > She had a pocket camera with her and was trying
                                                                                                                            > > to
                                                                                                                            > > > > take some photo's of the Betta's. The pet shop
                                                                                                                            > > > > worker told here she couldn't take photo's in
                                                                                                                            > > the
                                                                                                                            > > > > shop. I thought that they might call the law on
                                                                                                                            > > > > her. They had the Betta's in bags with the
                                                                                                                            > > tiniest
                                                                                                                            > > > > amount of water in it. I usually see them in
                                                                                                                            > > cups.
                                                                                                                            > > > > The problem was not just the amount of water but
                                                                                                                            > > the
                                                                                                                            > > > > fact that some of the fish bags were on their
                                                                                                                            > > sides
                                                                                                                            > > > > leaving almost no water covering the fish at
                                                                                                                            > > all.
                                                                                                                            > > > > By the way their fish tanks were dirty and they
                                                                                                                            > > had
                                                                                                                            > > > > mostly dead and dying fish. The workers just
                                                                                                                            > > sit
                                                                                                                            > > > > and take the money. I don't think anyone really
                                                                                                                            > > > > works with care of the animals. In our area
                                                                                                                            > > they
                                                                                                                            > > > > don't have any real laws protecting pet-shop
                                                                                                                            > > > > animals. They say food shelter is all they
                                                                                                                            > > need.
                                                                                                                            > > > > Sad. Oh I would never buy fish there. I think
                                                                                                                            > > the
                                                                                                                            > > > > only way to get these places is don't buy
                                                                                                                            > > anything.
                                                                                                                            > > > > They have to have money to stay open. Thanks
                                                                                                                            > > again
                                                                                                                            > > > > for answering my quetions. Evita
                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                            > > > Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                            Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10105 From: Nan Date: 4/8/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                            I have a friend who has ghost shrimp in with her adult guppys, and she
                                                                                                                            said that when she was cleaning her tank a few months after getting
                                                                                                                            them she was using the gravel siphon to clean, and low and behold there
                                                                                                                            was bunches of those lovely little ghost babies comeing out thru the
                                                                                                                            siphon. Therefore, I would guess that they eat either what the parents
                                                                                                                            eat (leftover fish food, etc..) or the infusia (sorry about spelling,
                                                                                                                            but that is how it sounds to me..*LOL*) that is in the tank. As long
                                                                                                                            as they have gravel to hide in, I would just wait and see what comes
                                                                                                                            out. BTW: I saw some of those baby ghost shrimp, and they are really
                                                                                                                            very, very tiny!

                                                                                                                            ~Nan and Crew~
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10106 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/8/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: How Many Fish
                                                                                                                            In response to a question on the other list, Albert posted a reply that
                                                                                                                            ended thus:

                                                                                                                            Finally, although I didn't mention it specifically when I described my
                                                                                                                            example, note that the starting oxygen concentration depends not only upon
                                                                                                                            the temperature but the barometric pressure as well, so any exact
                                                                                                                            "guidelines" offered to aquarists would have to take in consideration where
                                                                                                                            in the United States (or the world, for that matter) the aquarist was
                                                                                                                            located!

                                                                                                                            So, everything really counts!

                                                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            From: Steve Szabo [mailto:steve@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 9:53 PM
                                                                                                                            To: Aquatic Life
                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] How Many Fish


                                                                                                                            A short time ago we had a discussion of the one inch rule here. I posted a
                                                                                                                            question to another list asking if anyone knew where this rule had
                                                                                                                            originated, and I have posted parts of the answers from that thread here, in
                                                                                                                            other threads covering the topic, among other things. Naturally, lists being
                                                                                                                            what they are, the topic widened somewhat and here is, in full, a post that
                                                                                                                            was written by Albert Klee. Albert Klee is a man who has been around the
                                                                                                                            hobby for a long time. He has written many articles for publications, has
                                                                                                                            been an editor of many magazines in the hobby and, for a time, editor and
                                                                                                                            publisher himself of the magazine "Aquarium Illustrated", no longer with us,
                                                                                                                            and has written books. His published works go back, I believe, to 1950 with
                                                                                                                            his first article being published in "The Aquarium". (I said he has been
                                                                                                                            around for a while.) I asked him for permission to post his message here,
                                                                                                                            and he graciously allowed me to do so.

                                                                                                                            =======================================

                                                                                                                            When we ask how many fish that an aquarium can support, we are in effect
                                                                                                                            asking how many fish can be added before we get to a dangerously low oxygen
                                                                                                                            level. You have already suspected (and you would be correct) that this is
                                                                                                                            not a simple calculation. Of even more interest is that neither those who
                                                                                                                            favor a calculation based strictly on surface area nor those who favor a
                                                                                                                            calculation based strictly on volume are correct. As it turns out both
                                                                                                                            volume and surface area are important for the simple reason that not only
                                                                                                                            must oxygen be transferred from the air-water interface, it also must travel
                                                                                                                            through the water. I'll try to explain by the following but I warn you, it
                                                                                                                            might be tough sledding.

                                                                                                                            For aquaria in which there is reasonably uniform mixing, the rate of change
                                                                                                                            of dissolved oxygen at any time, t, is directly proportional to the
                                                                                                                            difference between the saturation concentration, Cs and the concentration,
                                                                                                                            C, in the water. Plowing through the equilibrium equations, C can be
                                                                                                                            calculated by the following,

                                                                                                                            C = exp(-Kt)*C0 + [(1 – exp(-Kt)(KCs – K1)]K

                                                                                                                            where K is the overall absorption coefficient, C0 is the initial
                                                                                                                            concentration of dissolved oxygen, and K1 is the rate at which fish consume
                                                                                                                            oxygen. I have simplified the equation and removed two additional rate
                                                                                                                            constants that involve plants since in this example I am assuming the
                                                                                                                            aquarium does not contain plants.

                                                                                                                            Consider an aquarium with a volume of 200 liters and an exposed surface of
                                                                                                                            5,000 sq cm (this is roughly a 53 gallon tank, 48 x 16 x 16 inches). Because
                                                                                                                            I have the data for this fish I'll assume that there are 10 brook trout,
                                                                                                                            each weighting 25 gm and consuming oxygen at a rate of 100 ml oxygen/ kg. of
                                                                                                                            fish per hour. I'll also assume the
                                                                                                                            temperature and barometric pressure is such that the solubility of oxygen is
                                                                                                                            10 ppm. These are all reasonably approximate numbers based upon experimental
                                                                                                                            data.

                                                                                                                            The value of K depends BOTH on the volume of water, V, and the area of the
                                                                                                                            exposed surface, A. (The ratio V/A being sometimes referred to as the
                                                                                                                            "aeration depth.") The actual equation is:

                                                                                                                            K = f*A/V

                                                                                                                            For water where there is only a slight disturbance at the surface the value
                                                                                                                            of f can be taken to be approximately 1.0 cm/h. Applying the equation for K
                                                                                                                            and remembering to change the volume in liters to ml, K is 0.025/h.

                                                                                                                            Now all we have to do is calculate the oxygen consumption of the fish, K1,
                                                                                                                            in ppm/h.

                                                                                                                            Factoring in the weight of oxygen (oxygen has a density of 1.43 gm/l at
                                                                                                                            25°C), K1 = (10 x 25)* 100*1.43/(1000*100) = 0.36 ppm/h. Therefore,
                                                                                                                            0.025(10-C) = 0.36 and C = 4.4 ppm (kind of low for trout). This is the
                                                                                                                            equilibrium concentration and in theory will be reached only after an
                                                                                                                            infinite time but it can be shown (and I won't go into the equations here)
                                                                                                                            that if the water is initially saturated with oxygen a concentration within
                                                                                                                            about 0.1 ppm of the equilibrium value will be reached in about 85.5 hours.

                                                                                                                            Note additional equations are available to calculate C:
                                                                                                                            (1) After a partial or full water change;
                                                                                                                            (2) Aeration is added (at various rates, in ml/min), which, by the way,
                                                                                                                            increases the value of K substantially; and
                                                                                                                            (3) Plants are added (based upon leaf area, the data being available for
                                                                                                                            some familiar plants such as Valisneria spiralis).

                                                                                                                            I have investigated various scenarios and the results are interesting. For
                                                                                                                            example, it is inadvisable to attempt to improve conditions in an aquarium
                                                                                                                            having a moderate rate of solution from the air (K - 0.3 to 0.5) in
                                                                                                                            combination with a relatively high rate of absorption by fish, by
                                                                                                                            introducing a high rate of photosynthesis (i.e., adding plants and providing
                                                                                                                            light for optimal growth), since under these conditions the dissolved oxygen
                                                                                                                            will fluctuate quite widely about an already low level (because of the
                                                                                                                            carbon dioxide) and may well fall below the tolerance level at night,
                                                                                                                            although it may be that fish can withstand and thrive in conditions in which
                                                                                                                            the dissolved oxygen falls below the tolerance level for short periods but
                                                                                                                            in which the daily average concentration is high.

                                                                                                                            One can understand why guidelines based upon volume or surface are used for
                                                                                                                            beginners. The type and size of the fish, the dimensions of the tank, the
                                                                                                                            presence or absence of aeration and/or plants all contribute to determining
                                                                                                                            what can safely be added to the aquarium. No simple rule can answer the
                                                                                                                            question with exactitude, although tables might do a better job. We as more
                                                                                                                            advanced aquarists manage by experience. Experience, however, is often
                                                                                                                            attained only after failure.

                                                                                                                            =============================================

                                                                                                                            As you can see, the formulae presented here are just a few of the many that
                                                                                                                            can go into determining how many fish can fit into that tank. The one inch
                                                                                                                            per fish rule is nothing more than a useless simplification that may, or may
                                                                                                                            not, work, depending on the fish and other factors.

                                                                                                                            I do like his last couple of lines here. He puts it quite graciously.
                                                                                                                            Usually it is said that the difference between a novice and advance aquarist
                                                                                                                            is in the price of the fish they kill (and I have killed at least my fair
                                                                                                                            share over the years.).

                                                                                                                            If you have taken the time to get this far, I will state that I am willing
                                                                                                                            to pass along to Albert, a few questions, should anyone find it necessary to
                                                                                                                            ask them, that pertain to his post. I do not wish to over burden a man who
                                                                                                                            has been kind and generous with his time to put this (as well as many other
                                                                                                                            articles, most of an historical look at our hobby) into an electronic format
                                                                                                                            to share with us.

                                                                                                                            \\Steve//




                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                            the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                            subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                            in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10107 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/8/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Ghost shrimps with eggs care info please
                                                                                                                            They get moved into the 20 gallon tank once they are big enough. The
                                                                                                                            10 is just a fry grow out tank.


                                                                                                                            > guppies will when they get bigger.
                                                                                                                            > --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > OK, thanks, who would eat the babies? The parents or
                                                                                                                            > > the fish? For now
                                                                                                                            > > this is only about 15 guppy fry only 2-6 weeks old.
                                                                                                                            > > Tiny still. Thanks
                                                                                                                            > > again I'll let you know if I find any babies.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10108 From: Fish Bloke Date: 4/8/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                            Message
                                                                                                                            The theory of replicating natural CO2 levels in our aquariums would probably result in very slow growth.  In nature, fully aquatic plants are few and far between, often with water running over them contantly.  This means they have a huge reservoir of nutrients, including C02.  If we replicated these levels in our aquaria, the plants would strip them out probably within a day or so (maybe less).
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            The idea of agitating water surface to bring in more CO2 will work to an extent, but in heavily planted tanks the use of C02 will outstrip the aquariums ability to replace it.  To keep plant growth exponential, we provide elevated lighting, nutrients and CO2.  Personally, I have never seen pearling on a tank without CO2, even with excell.  You may see continued pearly as the plants may store excess carbon for later use.  I expect this will cease before long.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            I am no chemist, but I think the idea of pH having a bearing on how much CO2 water can hold is wrong.  In water CO2 is carbonic acid.  At a higher pH, carbonic acid would be used up faster as it reacts with the hydroxide ions.  The effect of the carbonic acid would of course drop pH, relative to how much CO2 you are dissolving into the water.  There is a direct relationship between pH, CO2 and alkalinity, you can find tables on the net that let you calculate the relative amounts of each.  Yes, temperature and atmospheric pressure would have an effect, but probably not worth worrying about.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            The effect of seeing less algae when you have high CO2 levels is because the plants are better able to uptake the available nutrients, therefore out competing the algae.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Cheers,
                                                                                                                            Phil.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10109 From: Liz Wilhite Date: 4/8/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                            On Apr 8, 2005 7:22 PM, Fish Bloke <fishbloke@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            I am no chemist, but I think the idea of pH having a bearing on how much CO2 water can hold is wrong.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            I am a Ph.D. chemist.  You are dead wrong.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Liz

                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10110 From: Anne Date: 4/8/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: How Many Fish
                                                                                                                            "Finally, although I didn't mention it specifically
                                                                                                                            when I described my example, note that the starting
                                                                                                                            oxygen concentration ...

                                                                                                                            Thanks Steve. I read the article all the way thru and
                                                                                                                            have to admit, I'm not exactly sure how to go about
                                                                                                                            all that figuring. Guess that's why the 1inch per gal.
                                                                                                                            became popular. LOL
                                                                                                                            Anne



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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10111 From: Fish Bloke Date: 4/8/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                            Fair enough.  I am here to learn, can you expand.  Was everything I said wrong, or just that bit.  :^)
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Phil.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                            Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 1:11 PM
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory



                                                                                                                            On Apr 8, 2005 7:22 PM, Fish Bloke <fishbloke@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            I am no chemist, but I think the idea of pH having a bearing on how much CO2 water can hold is wrong.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            I am a Ph.D. chemist.  You are dead wrong.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Liz

                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10112 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad

                                                                                                                            I know I’m late on this but…

                                                                                                                            I reported a LFS to our humane society about poor beta conditions (along with overcrowding of birds, no food, water conditions, etc…)  The HS visited the next day and the next time I went back the LFS no longer carried betas and the birds were thinned out among separate cages.  You don’t need pictures, just make a phone call and they can take it from there. Good luck!

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            From: Valeen Gonzalez [mailto:valeendgonzalez@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:40 PM
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Glass Block Aquarium/how sad

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            just a thought - what if the cam is digital like a cam phone? can they actually then take the
                                                                                                                            camera/phone away from you?

                                                                                                                            just curious is all. most of the stores near me keep well-maintained tanks & fish so haven't had
                                                                                                                            to sneak photos of fish and/or tanks to sick humane society on them.

                                                                                                                            --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                            > it is not illegal to take pics unless posted or
                                                                                                                            > warned.  oince a store warns you to not take pics,
                                                                                                                            > they are legally justified in seizing the film from
                                                                                                                            > the camera.  learned that in old navy.  they do not
                                                                                                                            > wanttheir displays copied, and have security personnel
                                                                                                                            > in large stores, like seattle to confiscate film.
                                                                                                                            > same is true in nevada and california.  you can't be
                                                                                                                            > arrested for photography, but your film can be taken
                                                                                                                            > and you can be evicted.
                                                                                                                            > paul
                                                                                                                            > --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                            > <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > >     I am not sure if it is illegal to take pictures
                                                                                                                            > > in a store that is
                                                                                                                            > > opened to the public, and if it is, I'm not sure if
                                                                                                                            > > it would be upheld
                                                                                                                            > > because of several court cases involving what is and
                                                                                                                            > > isn't proper.  I know
                                                                                                                            > > that it is legal for cops to take pictures from
                                                                                                                            > > anywhere that is open to the
                                                                                                                            > > public, even if they are taking those pictures from
                                                                                                                            > > the air and the camera
                                                                                                                            > > is pointed at private or restricted property.
                                                                                                                            > > Perhaps the person should
                                                                                                                            > > look for a high quality camera and take pictures
                                                                                                                            > > from the side walk while
                                                                                                                            > > somebody opens the door?
                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                            > > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            > > She had a pocket camera with her and was trying to
                                                                                                                            > > take some photo's of the Betta's.  The pet shop
                                                                                                                            > > worker told here she couldn't take photo's in the
                                                                                                                            > > shop.  I thought that they might call the law on
                                                                                                                            > > her.  They had the Betta's in bags with the tiniest
                                                                                                                            > > amount of water in it.  I usually see them in cups.
                                                                                                                            > > The problem was not just the amount of water but the
                                                                                                                            > > fact that some of the fish bags were on their sides
                                                                                                                            > > leaving almost no water covering the fish at all.
                                                                                                                            > > By the way their fish tanks were dirty and they had
                                                                                                                            > > mostly dead and dying fish.  The workers just sit
                                                                                                                            > > and take the money.  I don't think anyone really
                                                                                                                            > > works with care of the animals.  In our area they
                                                                                                                            > > don't have any real laws protecting pet-shop
                                                                                                                            > > animals.  They say food shelter is all they need.
                                                                                                                            > > Sad.  Oh I would never buy fish there.  I think the
                                                                                                                            > > only way to get these places is don't buy anything.
                                                                                                                            > > They have to have money to stay open. Thanks again
                                                                                                                            > > for answering my quetions. Evita
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >            
                                                                                                                            > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10113 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please.
                                                                                                                            I recently bought some red rams horn and brown colored rams horns and
                                                                                                                            I swear in two days they had eatin all the algae off the tank and ever
                                                                                                                            plant and ornimant. But down side they are leaving eggs everywhere.


                                                                                                                            > Some folks are using "Flourish Excel" to control algae. They are
                                                                                                                            using 2X the dose for 3 or 4 days and then the regular dose. Of course
                                                                                                                            we are helping our live plants outcompete the algae for neutrients but
                                                                                                                            used on a regular basis it keeps the tanks clean. A clean tank(no
                                                                                                                            algae) in a few weeks. Works for me.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Harry
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10114 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: I have baby ghost shrimps!!! =:o)
                                                                                                                            I was looking through my tank today at my fry and guess what I saw. It
                                                                                                                            looked like a clear dead piece of a plant very tiny. Than as you look
                                                                                                                            closer it looks like a ghost shrimp but it was upside down. I only
                                                                                                                            found two and both the shrimps have lost there eggs so I assume there
                                                                                                                            is more somewhere.
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10115 From: harry perry Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please./mommy2
                                                                                                                            Rams horns? A type of snail?
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Harry

                                                                                                                            mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                            I recently bought some red rams horn and brown colored rams horns and
                                                                                                                            I swear in two days they had eatin all the algae off the tank and ever
                                                                                                                            plant and ornimant. But down side they are leaving eggs everywhere.


                                                                                                                            > Some folks are using "Flourish Excel" to control algae. They are
                                                                                                                            using 2X the dose for 3 or 4 days and then the regular dose. Of course
                                                                                                                            we are helping our live plants outcompete the algae for neutrients but
                                                                                                                            used on a regular basis it keeps the tanks clean. A clean tank(no
                                                                                                                            algae) in a few weeks. Works for me.

                                                                                                                            > Harry
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                            > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                            > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10116 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please./mommy2
                                                                                                                            Opps so sorry yes they are snails. They have a sorta flat shell that
                                                                                                                            wraps around people say they look like the horn of a ram. If you look
                                                                                                                            for a photo on yahoo's main page I'm sure you can find a picture of
                                                                                                                            one. They red ones are so pretty when they are cleaning the glass.
                                                                                                                            There shell and body is red.


                                                                                                                            > Rams horns? A type of snail?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Harry
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > I recently bought some red rams horn and brown colored rams horns and
                                                                                                                            > I swear in two days they had eatin all the algae off the tank and ever
                                                                                                                            > plant and ornimant. But down side they are leaving eggs everywhere.
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10117 From: The Doctor Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please./mommy2
                                                                                                                            Yep. I've personally only seen the striped Ram's Horns, but they are a
                                                                                                                            hermaphroditic (one gender, only takes one to lay fertile eggs) type of
                                                                                                                            snail. -I had one for a while that dropped a clutch a few times a month,
                                                                                                                            unfortunately they never hatched - either the Zebra Danios, Dwarf Frogs, or
                                                                                                                            Pleco found them a delicacy.


                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                            From: "harry perry" <harryfisherman@...>
                                                                                                                            To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                            Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 9:46 AM
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae control. Your opinions please./mommy2


                                                                                                                            > Rams horns? A type of snail?
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10118 From: paul helms Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please./mommy2
                                                                                                                            yes a pest snail hat reproduces on its own or with a
                                                                                                                            partner. much fatser when there are 2, but can be
                                                                                                                            done alone. you can go from 1 to 300 in a matter of a
                                                                                                                            month
                                                                                                                            --- harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > Rams horns? A type of snail?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Harry
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > I recently bought some red rams horn and brown
                                                                                                                            > colored rams horns and
                                                                                                                            > I swear in two days they had eatin all the algae off
                                                                                                                            > the tank and ever
                                                                                                                            > plant and ornimant. But down side they are leaving
                                                                                                                            > eggs everywhere.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > > Some folks are using "Flourish Excel" to control
                                                                                                                            > algae. They are
                                                                                                                            > using 2X the dose for 3 or 4 days and then the
                                                                                                                            > regular dose. Of course
                                                                                                                            > we are helping our live plants outcompete the algae
                                                                                                                            > for neutrients but
                                                                                                                            > used on a regular basis it keeps the tanks clean. A
                                                                                                                            > clean tank(no
                                                                                                                            > algae) in a few weeks. Works for me.
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > Harry
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                            > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                            > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                                                                                                                            > protection around
                                                                                                                            > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when
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                                                                                                                            > .
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                                                                                                                            > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                            > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                            > matter
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10119 From: paul helms Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please.
                                                                                                                            that is what they do, you will have over 100 in a
                                                                                                                            matter of a week or so. that is why they are illegal
                                                                                                                            in california. they are worried about them getting
                                                                                                                            into the wild and conwuming all of the plants/
                                                                                                                            starving out native species. you may want to invest in
                                                                                                                            a loach. the eggs wiull be everywhere, on the heater,
                                                                                                                            in the filter, in pumps, on rocks, plants, gravel,
                                                                                                                            glass, and decorations. the loaches won't eatthe
                                                                                                                            adults, but the babies are food for them
                                                                                                                            paul
                                                                                                                            --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > I recently bought some red rams horn and brown
                                                                                                                            > colored rams horns and
                                                                                                                            > I swear in two days they had eatin all the algae off
                                                                                                                            > the tank and ever
                                                                                                                            > plant and ornimant. But down side they are leaving
                                                                                                                            > eggs everywhere.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > > Some folks are using "Flourish Excel" to control
                                                                                                                            > algae. They are
                                                                                                                            > using 2X the dose for 3 or 4 days and then the
                                                                                                                            > regular dose. Of course
                                                                                                                            > we are helping our live plants outcompete the algae
                                                                                                                            > for neutrients but
                                                                                                                            > used on a regular basis it keeps the tanks clean. A
                                                                                                                            > clean tank(no
                                                                                                                            > algae) in a few weeks. Works for me.
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > Harry
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                            > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                            > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                                                                                                                            > protection around
                                                                                                                            > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >



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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10120 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please./mommy2
                                                                                                                            I came home with 3 red ones and about 4 brown ones from the pet store
                                                                                                                            the other day and so far have found 4 piles of eggs in my 10 gallon
                                                                                                                            tank and 1 set of eggs in my 20 gallon, maybe my dwarf frog is eating
                                                                                                                            them? I hope so, that poor guy hardley ever gets to eat, The fish
                                                                                                                            always eat anything you put in the tank. I did have danios but had to
                                                                                                                            take them because they where eating my other fishes tails. I still
                                                                                                                            seem to notice every now and than a fish with a chunk out of it's tail.


                                                                                                                            > Yep. I've personally only seen the striped Ram's Horns, but they are a
                                                                                                                            > hermaphroditic (one gender, only takes one to lay fertile eggs) type of
                                                                                                                            > snail. -I had one for a while that dropped a clutch a few times a
                                                                                                                            month,
                                                                                                                            > unfortunately they never hatched - either the Zebra Danios, Dwarf
                                                                                                                            Frogs, or
                                                                                                                            > Pleco found them a delicacy.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > > Rams horns? A type of snail?
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10121 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: How Many Fish
                                                                                                                            Yes, it is a bit of a read, isn't it?

                                                                                                                            But, the whole point here is that, for the most part, the one-inch rule is
                                                                                                                            bogus, although it can be done, by tweaking the elements in the formulae
                                                                                                                            given. Frankly, I'd rather have less fish in a tank, and not be trying to
                                                                                                                            cure them of this and that and another thing.

                                                                                                                            One example I often use is this: You go to a lake to do some swimming or
                                                                                                                            fishing, or whatever. If you are observant, you are bound to notice some
                                                                                                                            fish--hopefully so, if you are fishing <g>. When you see these fish, what do
                                                                                                                            you notice about them? They are single fish, or perhaps in a group. It is
                                                                                                                            more obvious with a singleton, but the groups also shows the same
                                                                                                                            thing--their surroundings. What do you notice about the surroundings? A lot
                                                                                                                            of water. Put those same fish in a tank. How do you replicate their natural
                                                                                                                            surroundings? You'll need a lot of water to surround that fish.

                                                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            From: Anne [mailto:md_gustoby@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 12:37 AM
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How Many Fish



                                                                                                                            "Finally, although I didn't mention it specifically
                                                                                                                            when I described my example, note that the starting
                                                                                                                            oxygen concentration ...

                                                                                                                            Thanks Steve. I read the article all the way thru and
                                                                                                                            have to admit, I'm not exactly sure how to go about
                                                                                                                            all that figuring. Guess that's why the 1inch per gal.
                                                                                                                            became popular. LOL
                                                                                                                            Anne



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                                                                                                                            in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10122 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: How Many Fish
                                                                                                                                Personally, I think anybody that says 1 inch per gallon is too much is as weak minded as those who say an Oscar will do fine in a 10 gallon tank.  There is not and never will be a formula to figure out how many fish will fit in a gallon.  I can't say how many is too many, there are too many variables.  I will say this, trying to work out a formula is like trying to figure out the meaning of life.  It will never happen, and you miss all the fun.  If you want to under stock your tank, have fun.  If you want to over stock your tank and do some work, have fun.
                                                                                                                                As far as space, there is a rule I like.  10 inches of tank for each inch of the maximum length of the largest fish.  A neon could do fine in a 10 inch tank, an Oscar would need a 100 inch tank, and a sw shark would need a swimming pool.  This rule works out well because it gives a fish 10 times their length to swim.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10123 From: paul helms Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: How Many Fish
                                                                                                                            interesting, but pat...an oscar would then need 200
                                                                                                                            inches not 100....lol

                                                                                                                            --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                            <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > Personally, I think anybody that says 1 inch per
                                                                                                                            > gallon is too much is
                                                                                                                            > as weak minded as those who say an Oscar will do
                                                                                                                            > fine in a 10 gallon tank.
                                                                                                                            > There is not and never will be a formula to figure
                                                                                                                            > out how many fish will
                                                                                                                            > fit in a gallon. I can't say how many is too many,
                                                                                                                            > there are too many
                                                                                                                            > variables. I will say this, trying to work out a
                                                                                                                            > formula is like trying to
                                                                                                                            > figure out the meaning of life. It will never
                                                                                                                            > happen, and you miss all the
                                                                                                                            > fun. If you want to under stock your tank, have
                                                                                                                            > fun. If you want to over
                                                                                                                            > stock your tank and do some work, have fun.
                                                                                                                            > As far as space, there is a rule I like. 10
                                                                                                                            > inches of tank for each
                                                                                                                            > inch of the maximum length of the largest fish. A
                                                                                                                            > neon could do fine in a
                                                                                                                            > 10 inch tank, an Oscar would need a 100 inch tank,
                                                                                                                            > and a sw shark would need
                                                                                                                            > a swimming pool. This rule works out well because
                                                                                                                            > it gives a fish 10 times
                                                                                                                            > their length to swim.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.



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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10124 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: How Many Fish
                                                                                                                            But the label at the w-mart says they grow to 10 inches, so it must be true, mustn't it? :) 
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            interesting, but pat...an oscar would then need 200
                                                                                                                            inches not 100....lol
                                                                                                                            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10125 From: Evita Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Glass Block Aquarium/how sad
                                                                                                                            Good for Texas....I live in NC and in our town they don't have any protection for animals hardly at all.  Boy could I tell you stories.  One unrelated to fish though.  My neighbor killed a dog it died in the sun without food and water.  He was a Dalmation and he was way under weight.  I called the Sheriff and told him to come and just see the dead dog.  They were not at home.  The dog was laying in the yard in plain sight.  They wouldn't come up because they said the owner had to be home to give permission  to go on their property.  They were on vaction the dog was tied up in the sun without shelter.  A neighbor buried the dog before they came home.  Evita 

                                                                                                                            Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                            I know I�m late on this but�

                                                                                                                            I reported a LFS to our humane society about poor beta conditions (along with overcrowding of birds, no food, water conditions, etc�)  The HS visited the next day and the next time I went back the LFS no longer carried betas and the birds were thinned out among separate cages.  You don�t need pictures, just make a phone call and they can take it from there. Good luck!

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            From: Valeen Gonzalez [mailto:valeendgonzalez@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:40 PM
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Glass Block Aquarium/how sad

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            just a thought - what if the cam is digital like a cam phone? can they actually then take the
                                                                                                                            camera/phone away from you?

                                                                                                                            just curious is all. most of the stores near me keep well-maintained tanks & fish so haven't had
                                                                                                                            to sneak photos of fish and/or tanks to sick humane society on them.

                                                                                                                            --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                            > it is not illegal to take pics unless posted or
                                                                                                                            > warned.  oince a store warns you to not take pics,
                                                                                                                            > they are legally justified in seizing the film from
                                                                                                                            > the camera.  learned that in old navy.  they do not
                                                                                                                            > wanttheir displays copied, and have security personnel
                                                                                                                            > in large stores, like seattle to confiscate film.
                                                                                                                            > same is true in nevada and california.  you can't be
                                                                                                                            > arrested for photography, but your film can be taken
                                                                                                                            > and you can be evicted.
                                                                                                                            > paul
                                                                                                                            > --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                            > <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > >     I am not sure if it is illegal to take pictures
                                                                                                                            > > in a store that is
                                                                                                                            > > opened to the public, and if it is, I'm not sure if
                                                                                                                            > > it would be upheld
                                                                                                                            > > because of several court cases involving what is and
                                                                                                                            > > isn't proper.  I know
                                                                                                                            > > that it is legal for cops to take pictures from
                                                                                                                            > > anywhere that is open to the
                                                                                                                            > > public, even if they are taking those pictures from
                                                                                                                            > > the air and the camera
                                                                                                                            > > is pointed at private or restricted property.
                                                                                                                            > > Perhaps the person should
                                                                                                                            > > look for a high quality camera and take pictures
                                                                                                                            > > from the side walk while
                                                                                                                            > > somebody opens the door?
                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                            > > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            > > She had a pocket camera with her and was trying to
                                                                                                                            > > take some photo's of the Betta's.  The pet shop
                                                                                                                            > > worker told here she couldn't take photo's in the
                                                                                                                            > > shop.  I thought that they might call the law on
                                                                                                                            > > her.  They had the Betta's in bags with the tiniest
                                                                                                                            > > amount of water in it.  I usually see them in cups.
                                                                                                                            > > The problem was not just the amount of water but the
                                                                                                                            > > fact that some of the fish bags were on their sides
                                                                                                                            > > leaving almost no water covering the fish at all.
                                                                                                                            > > By the way their fish tanks were dirty and they had
                                                                                                                            > > mostly dead and dying fish.  The workers just sit
                                                                                                                            > > and take the money.  I don't think anyone really
                                                                                                                            > > works with care of the animals.  In our area they
                                                                                                                            > > don't have any real laws protecting pet-shop
                                                                                                                            > > animals.  They say food shelter is all they need.
                                                                                                                            > > Sad.  Oh I would never buy fish there.  I think the
                                                                                                                            > > only way to get these places is don't buy anything.
                                                                                                                            > > They have to have money to stay open. Thanks again
                                                                                                                            > > for answering my quetions. Evita
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10126 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: betta block
                                                                                                                            Ok, my feelings are (even tho this topic is getting old):

                                                                                                                            1) The tank is an acceptable size for a Betta,
                                                                                                                            2) I would like for him to make a larger hole on the top - but so
                                                                                                                            long as people leave an air bubble at the top of the container it
                                                                                                                            should be ok.
                                                                                                                            3) The video shows the Betta surfing the water current into the
                                                                                                                            block as the guy fills it, it then continues down into the water and
                                                                                                                            HITs it self on the bottom of the tank and looks dazed. Solution -
                                                                                                                            be gentle and fill slowly.
                                                                                                                            4) The block will be VERY HARD TO CLEAN once a slim builds up you
                                                                                                                            would have to shake the stones so much it wouldn't be worth the
                                                                                                                            energy.

                                                                                                                            5) Yep, you can buy the glass blocks and put them into your brick
                                                                                                                            work, a couple of houses down the road use them as a semi window
                                                                                                                            into their garage. No idea how much they cost tho.


                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...>
                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                            > the betta slides down the side of the funnel genius on
                                                                                                                            > a cushion of water. not an opinion...simple fact, try
                                                                                                                            > it some time and you may learn something!
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > --- Kyle Osterholt <snakeskinnerkyle@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > > maybe you didn't notice the funnel and the fact the
                                                                                                                            > > bowl was being held above that. Possibly it is you
                                                                                                                            > > that cannot accept other people's views on this
                                                                                                                            > > subject. Telling me to grow up and face the facts?
                                                                                                                            > > oh well, that's your opinion, I'll keep mine.....
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10127 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please.
                                                                                                                            The only loaches I've ever seen are at wally, and they usually are
                                                                                                                            pale and laying on the side if not dead. The nice thing about eggs is
                                                                                                                            you can get ride of them (mean but keeps numbers down. Some lady on
                                                                                                                            ebay sells the red ones for 5 for $9.99 plus shipping. I got them from
                                                                                                                            the pet store who said some lady brought them a ton of them free. I
                                                                                                                            lived in california for 19 years and didn't realize they had so many
                                                                                                                            things banned.


                                                                                                                            > that is what they do, you will have over 100 in a
                                                                                                                            > matter of a week or so. that is why they are illegal
                                                                                                                            > in california. they are worried about them getting
                                                                                                                            > into the wild and conwuming all of the plants/
                                                                                                                            > starving out native species. you may want to invest in
                                                                                                                            > a loach. the eggs wiull be everywhere, on the heater,
                                                                                                                            > in the filter, in pumps, on rocks, plants, gravel,
                                                                                                                            > glass, and decorations. the loaches won't eatthe
                                                                                                                            > adults, but the babies are food for them
                                                                                                                            > paul
                                                                                                                            > --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > I recently bought some red rams horn and brown
                                                                                                                            > > colored rams horns and
                                                                                                                            > > I swear in two days they had eatin all the algae off
                                                                                                                            > > the tank and ever
                                                                                                                            > > plant and ornimant. But down side they are leaving
                                                                                                                            > > eggs everywhere.
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > > Some folks are using "Flourish Excel" to control
                                                                                                                            > > algae. They are
                                                                                                                            > > using 2X the dose for 3 or 4 days and then the
                                                                                                                            > > regular dose. Of course
                                                                                                                            > > we are helping our live plants outcompete the algae
                                                                                                                            > > for neutrients but
                                                                                                                            > > used on a regular basis it keeps the tanks clean. A
                                                                                                                            > > clean tank(no
                                                                                                                            > > algae) in a few weeks. Works for me.
                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > Harry
                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                            > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                            > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                                                                                                                            > > protection around
                                                                                                                            > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > __________________________________
                                                                                                                            > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                                                            > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10128 From: whatsdiggin Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Need someone advice
                                                                                                                            I have the kind of filters that sit in the cornners of the tank with
                                                                                                                            suction cups, and I need to get new ones. Do I need to find ones that
                                                                                                                            are for fish tanks only, or can I use the ones that you can buy in any
                                                                                                                            store?
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10129 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Bow tanks
                                                                                                                            * What is the height of your tank / water level?

                                                                                                                            * What is the thickness?

                                                                                                                            * How long is the longest face?


                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                            <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > i agree, none of my bows distorts the viewing.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > --- bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                                            >> Bow front tanks do not distort, not to start an arguement. I have a
                                                                                                                            >> 46...
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10130 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Bow tanks
                                                                                                                            none of mine are that big. the biggest is a system 12.

                                                                                                                            "Nicolas J. Munro" <nmunro@...> wrote:


                                                                                                                            * What is the height of your tank / water level?

                                                                                                                            * What is the thickness?

                                                                                                                            * How long is the longest face?


                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                            <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > i agree, none of my bows distorts the viewing.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > --- bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                                            >> Bow front tanks do not distort, not to start an arguement.  I have a
                                                                                                                            >> 46...






                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                            Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10131 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Bow tanks
                                                                                                                            Whats a system 12 ?


                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                            <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > none of mine are that big. the biggest is a system 12.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > "Nicolas J. Munro" <nmunro@q...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > * What is the height of your tank / water level?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > * What is the thickness?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > * How long is the longest face?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                            > <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > > i agree, none of my bows distorts the viewing.
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > --- bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                                            > >> Bow front tanks do not distort, not to start an arguement. I
                                                                                                                            have a
                                                                                                                            > >> 46...
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10132 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Thinking of buying a new filter for my tank - recomendations?
                                                                                                                            Hi,

                                                                                                                            My tanks 4ft x 2.5ft x 18in (300 liters/90ish gallons) Fresh Water
                                                                                                                            Tropical fish.



                                                                                                                            1x Flying Fox
                                                                                                                            1x Yabbie (Australian Fresh water Cray)
                                                                                                                            1x Betta (very entertaining)
                                                                                                                            1x Cory Dory
                                                                                                                            1x Bristlenose Catfish
                                                                                                                            2x Bala Sharks
                                                                                                                            2x Male sward tails,
                                                                                                                            4x Tiger Barbs
                                                                                                                            15x Guppies (Green/Blue Native),

                                                                                                                            And my tank still looks empty


                                                                                                                            My current filter is an OTTO PF-1200N ( 1200lph ) it looks just like
                                                                                                                            like this one http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/prod710.htm


                                                                                                                            A short time ago somebody recomended to upgrade to a 1400lph filter
                                                                                                                            and others have recomended biological filters or the ones which have
                                                                                                                            a spinning wheel that goes out of the water.

                                                                                                                            If you have any experience going from an internal filter to either a
                                                                                                                            canester or other type of filter, please, please, please reply.
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10133 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Bow tanks
                                                                                                                            sorry, it's an eclipse 12 gallon bowfront.

                                                                                                                            "Nicolas J. Munro" <nmunro@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                            Whats a system 12 ?


                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                            <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > none of mine are that big. the biggest is a system 12.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > "Nicolas J. Munro" <nmunro@q...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > * What is the height of your tank / water level?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > * What is the thickness?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > * How long is the longest face?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                            > <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > > i agree, none of my bows distorts the viewing.
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > --- bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                                            > >> Bow front tanks do not distort, not to start an arguement.  I
                                                                                                                            have a
                                                                                                                            > >> 46...
                                                                                                                            >






                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                            Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10134 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Thinking of buying a new filter for my tank - recomendations?
                                                                                                                            I don't know why they said to upgrade?
                                                                                                                            In my opinion your 3x water turn over should be enough for your fish load.
                                                                                                                            If you where to go with a Mbuna African Cichlid tank where you was to put in 40 adult fish then you might want to upgrade but right now if your happy with your filter I'd stay with it.
                                                                                                                            If you'd like some extra filteration get a cheap sponge filter. Sponge Filters
                                                                                                                            .


                                                                                                                            If you are not satisfied with your filteration then an external canister is nice if you don't want a bunch of stuff hanging on the back of your tank. At around $100+ that can get expensive but the media areas are generous and you can keep a few diffent types of media.

                                                                                                                            rob
                                                                                                                            Indiana
                                                                                                                            USA


                                                                                                                            In a message dated 4/9/2005 9:02:47 PM US Eastern Standard Time, nmunro@... writes:
                                                                                                                            My tanks 4ft x 2.5ft x 18in  (300 liters/90ish gallons)  Fresh Water


                                                                                                                            Tropical fish.
                                                                                                                            1x  Flying Fox
                                                                                                                            1x  Yabbie (Australian Fresh water Cray)
                                                                                                                            1x  Betta (very entertaining)
                                                                                                                            1x  Cory Dory
                                                                                                                            1x  Bristlenose Catfish
                                                                                                                            2x  Bala Sharks
                                                                                                                            2x  Male sward tails,
                                                                                                                            4x  Tiger Barbs
                                                                                                                            15x Guppies (Green/Blue Native),
                                                                                                                            And my tank still looks empty
                                                                                                                            My current filter is an OTTO PF-1200N ( 1200lph ) it looks just like
                                                                                                                            like this one http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/prod710.htm
                                                                                                                            A short time ago somebody recomended to upgrade to a 1400lph filter
                                                                                                                            and others have recomended biological filters or the ones which have
                                                                                                                            a spinning wheel that goes out of the water.






                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10135 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/9/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Bow tanks
                                                                                                                            Height: 28"
                                                                                                                            Longest face: 75" (approx)
                                                                                                                            90 degree bow (1/4 circle)
                                                                                                                            Acrylic, 3/4"

                                                                                                                            No distortion.





                                                                                                                            Nicolas J. Munro said:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > * What is the height of your tank / water level?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > * What is the thickness?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > * How long is the longest face?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                            > <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >> i agree, none of my bows distorts the viewing.
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >> --- bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                                            >>> Bow front tanks do not distort, not to start an arguement. I have a
                                                                                                                            >>> 46...
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10136 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: seroius help needed
                                                                                                                            ok so for the last few days I have been noticing my blue dwarf gourami kinda hanging out near the top in the same spot.. today I looked really close and looks like dropsy the scales normally light blue are like puffy pine conish sorta red looking his under area looks bloated.. the only thing new I have put in in calcium a very low does for my snails... I thought originally he was like protecting the eggs that have been layed by a snail... but now don't know what to do.. any ideas.. I have done mela fix but my tank like freaked when I used it.. had to take it all out.. its a 20 gallon with dwarf frogs snails and fish.. HELP Shannon
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10137 From: harry perry Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon
                                                                                                                            Dear Shannon
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            I looked up dropsy. Pains me to say this but the blue is gone. More important get him out of the community tank. You didn't cause this. It's caused by a bacteria. The bacteria is destroying the liver. The recomendation  I read was remove and destroy. Sorry. I raise gouramis also. 
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Harry

                                                                                                                            agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                                                            ok so for the last few days I have been noticing my blue dwarf gourami kinda hanging out near the top in the same spot.. today I looked really close and looks like dropsy the scales normally light blue are like puffy pine conish sorta red looking his under area looks bloated.. the only thing new I have put in in calcium a very low does for my snails... I thought originally he was like protecting the eggs that have been layed by a snail... but now don't know what to do.. any ideas.. I have done mela fix but my tank like freaked when I used it.. had to take it all out.. its a 20 gallon with dwarf frogs snails and fish.. HELP Shannon


                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10138 From: Michael McCumber Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: betta block
                                                                                                                            On Apr 3, 2005 9:17 PM, Kyle Osterholt <snakeskinnerkyle@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > I know that some betta splendens do fine in community tanks but overall I
                                                                                                                            > believe most are not suited (at least the 4 I've owned through the years
                                                                                                                            > weren't). As for stopping the betta splendens trade, I think I came off
                                                                                                                            > wrong in my story. I don't think they should be totally stopped, I just
                                                                                                                            > think there's a better fish to be marketed but then again these are being
                                                                                                                            > sold to the "lazy aquariast" who just want a jug on the counter and not mess
                                                                                                                            > with a big aquarium so maybe I'm just smoking pipe dreams here

                                                                                                                            Kyle, you're definitely smoking something! I have 4 Betta tanks (from
                                                                                                                            1 to 10 gallons). I don't breed Bettas at this point but keep them
                                                                                                                            for their beauty and personality. You may be right, I may be lazy --
                                                                                                                            in which case, why don't you come over and do the daily cleaning of
                                                                                                                            the black worms and feed them to the fish? And how about if you
                                                                                                                            complete the weekly water changes (with aged and treated water),
                                                                                                                            instead of me? I keep my tanks at 76 deg F, with aeration or
                                                                                                                            filtration in each.

                                                                                                                            You may want to think twice before offending a huge faction of the
                                                                                                                            aquarium enthusiast hobby with your "opinion". However, as far as
                                                                                                                            this "lazy aquariast", I'm not offended. You see Kyle, it's a case of
                                                                                                                            mind over matter. I don't mind because you don't matter.

                                                                                                                            Sincerely,

                                                                                                                            Mike
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10139 From: Michael McCumber Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed
                                                                                                                            ...HELP Shannon
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            Hi Shannon,

                                                                                                                            If you've had a fish w/ dropsy before, you probably already know this
                                                                                                                            but... Once they are at the "pinecone" looking stage, it's usually too
                                                                                                                            late the save the fish. Being that it is a secondary condition
                                                                                                                            resulatant from some sort of infection or even a tumor, dropsy itself
                                                                                                                            isn't contagious but it's prudent to isolate the affected fish and
                                                                                                                            medicate him however you see fit. Unfortunately, I've had 2 fish that
                                                                                                                            have had dropsy and attempts to medicate them were ultimately
                                                                                                                            unsuccesful.

                                                                                                                            It's hard to see our little buddies in that condition, isn't it?

                                                                                                                            Mike
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10140 From: paul helms Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please.
                                                                                                                            they were recently banned...in the last 1 1/2 years,
                                                                                                                            along with a long list of plants
                                                                                                                            --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > The only loaches I've ever seen are at wally, and
                                                                                                                            > they usually are
                                                                                                                            > pale and laying on the side if not dead. The nice
                                                                                                                            > thing about eggs is
                                                                                                                            > you can get ride of them (mean but keeps numbers
                                                                                                                            > down. Some lady on
                                                                                                                            > ebay sells the red ones for 5 for $9.99 plus
                                                                                                                            > shipping. I got them from
                                                                                                                            > the pet store who said some lady brought them a ton
                                                                                                                            > of them free. I
                                                                                                                            > lived in california for 19 years and didn't realize
                                                                                                                            > they had so many
                                                                                                                            > things banned.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > > that is what they do, you will have over 100 in a
                                                                                                                            > > matter of a week or so. that is why they are
                                                                                                                            > illegal
                                                                                                                            > > in california. they are worried about them
                                                                                                                            > getting
                                                                                                                            > > into the wild and conwuming all of the plants/
                                                                                                                            > > starving out native species. you may want to
                                                                                                                            > invest in
                                                                                                                            > > a loach. the eggs wiull be everywhere, on the
                                                                                                                            > heater,
                                                                                                                            > > in the filter, in pumps, on rocks, plants, gravel,
                                                                                                                            > > glass, and decorations. the loaches won't eatthe
                                                                                                                            > > adults, but the babies are food for them
                                                                                                                            > > paul
                                                                                                                            > > --- mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > I recently bought some red rams horn and brown
                                                                                                                            > > > colored rams horns and
                                                                                                                            > > > I swear in two days they had eatin all the algae
                                                                                                                            > off
                                                                                                                            > > > the tank and ever
                                                                                                                            > > > plant and ornimant. But down side they are
                                                                                                                            > leaving
                                                                                                                            > > > eggs everywhere.
                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > > Some folks are using "Flourish Excel" to
                                                                                                                            > control
                                                                                                                            > > > algae. They are
                                                                                                                            > > > using 2X the dose for 3 or 4 days and then the
                                                                                                                            > > > regular dose. Of course
                                                                                                                            > > > we are helping our live plants outcompete the
                                                                                                                            > algae
                                                                                                                            > > > for neutrients but
                                                                                                                            > > > used on a regular basis it keeps the tanks
                                                                                                                            > clean. A
                                                                                                                            > > > clean tank(no
                                                                                                                            > > > algae) in a few weeks. Works for me.
                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > > Harry
                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                            > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                            > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                            > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                                                                                                                            > > > protection around
                                                                                                                            > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                            > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                            > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources
                                                                                                                            > site!
                                                                                                                            > > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >



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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10141 From: paul helms Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: How Many Fish
                                                                                                                            uh huh ..yeah right!
                                                                                                                            lmao
                                                                                                                            they also (wal-mart) had a label in CA that said red
                                                                                                                            bellied pacu's were peaceful community fish that grow
                                                                                                                            to 6 inches! and eat flake food!
                                                                                                                            --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                            <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > But the label at the w-mart says they grow to 10
                                                                                                                            > inches, so it must be true,
                                                                                                                            > mustn't it? :)
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            > interesting, but pat...an oscar would then need 200
                                                                                                                            > inches not 100....lol



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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10142 From: harry perry Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: betta block/To Mike
                                                                                                                            Dear Mike,
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Let's not start a battle over a poor choice of words. Personally I think anyone who keeps Bettas in a tank smaller than 10 gallons should be reported to the humane society. But that's my opinion and not to be taken personally. It's a matter of opinion and in a free country everyones opinion should be respected.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Harry
                                                                                                                             A Moderator 

                                                                                                                            Michael McCumber <Michael.McCumber@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            On Apr 3, 2005 9:17 PM, Kyle Osterholt <snakeskinnerkyle@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > I know that some betta splendens do fine in community tanks but overall I
                                                                                                                            > believe most are not suited (at least the 4 I've owned through the years
                                                                                                                            > weren't).  As for stopping the betta splendens trade, I think I came off
                                                                                                                            > wrong in my story.  I don't think they should be totally stopped, I just
                                                                                                                            > think there's a better fish to be marketed but then again these are being
                                                                                                                            > sold to the "lazy aquariast" who just want a jug on the counter and not mess
                                                                                                                            > with a big aquarium so maybe I'm just smoking pipe dreams here

                                                                                                                            Kyle, you're definitely smoking something!  I have 4 Betta tanks (from
                                                                                                                            1 to 10 gallons).  I don't breed Bettas at this point but keep them
                                                                                                                            for their beauty and personality.  You may be right, I may be lazy --
                                                                                                                            in which case, why don't you come over and do the daily cleaning of
                                                                                                                            the black worms and feed them to the fish?  And how about if you
                                                                                                                            complete the weekly water changes (with aged and treated water),
                                                                                                                            instead of me?  I keep my tanks at 76 deg F, with aeration or
                                                                                                                            filtration in each.

                                                                                                                            You may want to think twice before offending a huge faction of the
                                                                                                                            aquarium enthusiast hobby with your "opinion".  However, as far as
                                                                                                                            this "lazy aquariast", I'm not offended.  You see Kyle, it's a case of
                                                                                                                            mind over matter.  I don't mind because you don't matter.

                                                                                                                            Sincerely,

                                                                                                                            Mike


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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10143 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon
                                                                                                                            serious wow not sure if I can destroy.. dang.. he was always my fav... in the book I read called like fish disease.. they said that it shouldn't get to the others... so I was thinking that and some mcylin might do the trick.. but you think not huh.. Shannon
                                                                                                                            Dear Shannon
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            I looked up dropsy. Pains me to say this but the blue is gone. More important get him out of the community tank. You didn't cause this. It's caused by a bacteria. The bacteria is destroying the liver. The recomendation  I read was remove and destroy. Sorry. I raise gouramis also. 
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Harry
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10144 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed
                                                                                                                            yes I seriously don't know how I can kill him... I mean he seems fine.. should I wait till I see some issues... what are your thoughts.. Shannon

                                                                                                                            ...HELP Shannon
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            Hi Shannon,

                                                                                                                            If you've had a fish w/ dropsy before, you probably already know this
                                                                                                                            but... Once they are at the "pinecone" looking stage, it's usually too
                                                                                                                            late the save the fish.  Being that it is a secondary condition
                                                                                                                            resulatant from some sort of infection or even a tumor, dropsy itself
                                                                                                                            isn't contagious but it's prudent to isolate the affected fish  and
                                                                                                                            medicate him however you see fit.  Unfortunately, I've had 2 fish that
                                                                                                                            have had dropsy and attempts to medicate them were ultimately
                                                                                                                            unsuccesful.

                                                                                                                            It's hard to see our little buddies in that condition, isn't it?
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10145 From: The Doctor Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please.
                                                                                                                            That's odd... If they are illegal in California, why does Petco in
                                                                                                                            Westminster often have them???


                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                            From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                            To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                            Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 1:09 PM
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae control. Your opinions please.


                                                                                                                            > that is what they do, you will have over 100 in a
                                                                                                                            > matter of a week or so. that is why they are illegal
                                                                                                                            > in california. they are worried about them getting
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10146 From: harry perry Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            I would isolate the fish. Then medicate. Then you know you've done everything you can. If it is dropsy you won't have to destroy.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Harry

                                                                                                                            agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                                                            serious wow not sure if I can destroy.. dang.. he was always my fav... in the book I read called like fish disease.. they said that it shouldn't get to the others... so I was thinking that and some mcylin might do the trick.. but you think not huh.. Shannon
                                                                                                                            Dear Shannon
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            I looked up dropsy. Pains me to say this but the blue is gone. More important get him out of the community tank. You didn't cause this. It's caused by a bacteria. The bacteria is destroying the liver. The recomendation  I read was remove and destroy. Sorry. I raise gouramis also. 
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Harry
                                                                                                                             


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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10147 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: serious help needed
                                                                                                                            Shannon, Sorry to hear about your Dwarf Gourami. For all intents and
                                                                                                                            purposes this certainly sounds like Dropsy, an internal VIRUS
                                                                                                                            disease/condition which is usually fatal. I would recommend isolating
                                                                                                                            it, and treating it if you want, although those red areas (hemorhaging)
                                                                                                                            under the scales indicated its a bit advanced and may be too late at
                                                                                                                            this stage. However, occasional cures have been obtained. Treat with
                                                                                                                            kanamycin (Seachem's Kanaplex or Aquatronic's Kanacyn) along with 1/4
                                                                                                                            tsp per gallon of epsom salts. If he's eating, feed him Pepso, a
                                                                                                                            medicated food made by Jungle Laboratories. I doubt very much that the
                                                                                                                            addition of calcium for the snails had anything to do with this. But,
                                                                                                                            is this the same tank that you were having nitrate problems with last
                                                                                                                            week from feeding the snails almost 1/2 a head of lettuce a week? If
                                                                                                                            so, that stress may very well have brought this on. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                            \
                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                            > ok so for the last few days I have been noticing my blue dwarf
                                                                                                                            gourami kinda
                                                                                                                            > hanging out near the top in the same spot.. today I looked really
                                                                                                                            close and
                                                                                                                            > looks like dropsy the scales normally light blue are like puffy pine
                                                                                                                            conish
                                                                                                                            > sorta red looking his under area looks bloated.. the only thing new I
                                                                                                                            have put
                                                                                                                            > in in calcium a very low does for my snails... I thought originally
                                                                                                                            he was
                                                                                                                            > like protecting the eggs that have been layed by a snail... but now
                                                                                                                            don't know
                                                                                                                            > what to do.. any ideas.. I have done mela fix but my tank like
                                                                                                                            freaked when I
                                                                                                                            > used it.. had to take it all out.. its a 20 gallon with dwarf frogs
                                                                                                                            snails
                                                                                                                            > and fish.. HELP Shannon
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10148 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            Shannon, As Harry said, by treating him at least you'll know that
                                                                                                                            you've done everything possible, even though the odds aren't very
                                                                                                                            good. If unfortunately it is fatal, that will save you the
                                                                                                                            unpleasant job of having to kill him. FYI; there are two very humane
                                                                                                                            methods of killing fish, short of smashing him to the floor with one
                                                                                                                            quick blow. You could put him in club soda (carbonated water) in
                                                                                                                            which he'll pass out in short time, or you could put him in a small
                                                                                                                            container of water and put him in the refrigerator. He won't
                                                                                                                            really "feel" the cold, but his metabolism will steadily slow down to
                                                                                                                            the point that it will finally cease. Just something to keep in
                                                                                                                            mind. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                            \
                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@y...>
                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                            > I would isolate the fish. Then medicate. Then you know you've done
                                                                                                                            everything you can. If it is dropsy you won't have to destroy.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Harry
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                            > serious wow not sure if I can destroy.. dang.. he was always my
                                                                                                                            fav... in the book I read called like fish disease.. they said that
                                                                                                                            it shouldn't get to the others... so I was thinking that and some
                                                                                                                            mcylin might do the trick.. but you think not huh.. Shannon
                                                                                                                            > Dear Shannon
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > I looked up dropsy. Pains me to say this but the blue is gone. More
                                                                                                                            important get him out of the community tank. You didn't cause this.
                                                                                                                            It's caused by a bacteria. The bacteria is destroying the liver. The
                                                                                                                            recomendation I read was remove and destroy. Sorry. I raise gouramis
                                                                                                                            also.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Harry
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10149 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: How Many Fish
                                                                                                                            Well, they're just talking about the first three months. <grin>

                                                                                                                            Seriously though, both of my Pacu LOVE flake. They also love grapes,
                                                                                                                            cherry tomatos, zuchini, peas, etc.



                                                                                                                            paul helms said:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > uh huh ..yeah right!
                                                                                                                            > lmao
                                                                                                                            > they also (wal-mart) had a label in CA that said red
                                                                                                                            > bellied pacu's were peaceful community fish that grow
                                                                                                                            > to 6 inches! and eat flake food!
                                                                                                                            > --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                            > <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >> But the label at the w-mart says they grow to 10
                                                                                                                            >> inches, so it must be true,
                                                                                                                            >> mustn't it? :)
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >> Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            >> -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            >> interesting, but pat...an oscar would then need 200
                                                                                                                            >> inches not 100....lol
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10150 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: betta block/To Mike
                                                                                                                                Yes, I do too.  Reporting tens of millions of Americans at a time to the humane society at once would be a great way to flood them to the point that they would shut down.  Great idea!
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            PS: Just joking. :)
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            Dear Mike,
                                                                                                                            Let's not start a battle over a poor choice of words. Personally I think anyone who keeps Bettas in a tank smaller than 10 gallons should be reported to the humane society. But that's my opinion and not to be taken personally. It's a matter of opinion and in a free country everyones opinion should be respected.
                                                                                                                            Harry
                                                                                                                             A Moderator
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10151 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: How Many Fish
                                                                                                                            Patrick,

                                                                                                                            Ummm, the formulae given in the message that started this thread is but a
                                                                                                                            partial answer to the question how many fish?. There are other formulae
                                                                                                                            available that factor in other things, such as the presence of plants in the
                                                                                                                            tank, etc. that will give a finer answer. Of course, should one e
                                                                                                                            mathematically challenged, then one would wish to go with a simplification.

                                                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                                                            ________________________________

                                                                                                                            From: Patrick, American Fish Guy [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 7:00 PM
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How Many Fish


                                                                                                                            Personally, I think anybody that says 1 inch per gallon is too much is
                                                                                                                            as weak minded as those who say an Oscar will do fine in a 10 gallon tank.
                                                                                                                            There is not and never will be a formula to figure out how many fish will
                                                                                                                            fit in a gallon. I can't say how many is too many, there are too many
                                                                                                                            variables. I will say this, trying to work out a formula is like trying to
                                                                                                                            figure out the meaning of life. It will never happen, and you miss all the
                                                                                                                            fun. If you want to under stock your tank, have fun. If you want to over
                                                                                                                            stock your tank and do some work, have fun.
                                                                                                                            As far as space, there is a rule I like. 10 inches of tank for each
                                                                                                                            inch of the maximum length of the largest fish. A neon could do fine in a
                                                                                                                            10 inch tank, an Oscar would need a 100 inch tank, and a sw shark would need
                                                                                                                            a swimming pool. This rule works out well because it gives a fish 10 times
                                                                                                                            their length to swim.

                                                                                                                            Patrick, an American Fish Guy.


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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10152 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            oh lordy... I so cant do any kind of smashing.. I just feel so bad like taking him out of his world he has so loved for nearly 2 years and destroying him.. I guess for my peace of mind I should wait till he stops eating or is suffering... then maybe ill feel better about all of this.. does that make sense... PS how long do gourami live.. if nearly 2 years is a young life I think I don't deserve another... grr at me.. Shannon

                                                                                                                            Shannon,  As Harry said, by treating him at least you'll know that
                                                                                                                            you've done everything possible, even though the odds aren't very
                                                                                                                            good.  If unfortunately it is fatal, that will save you the
                                                                                                                            unpleasant job of having to kill him.  FYI; there are two very humane
                                                                                                                            methods of killing fish, short of smashing him to the floor with one
                                                                                                                            quick blow.  You could put him in club soda (carbonated water) in
                                                                                                                            which he'll pass out in short time, or you could put him in a small
                                                                                                                            container of water and put him in the refrigerator.  He won't
                                                                                                                            really "feel" the cold, but his metabolism will steadily slow down to
                                                                                                                            the point that it will finally cease.  Just something to keep in
                                                                                                                            mind.  Regards,  Ray                                                 
                                                                                                                            \                                 
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10153 From: paul helms Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            you don't have to smash the fish.... you can do it
                                                                                                                            gentle in a bag of soda water (seltzer) or in the
                                                                                                                            freezer. besides.....dropsy is a bacterial infection
                                                                                                                            and can be treated, it may work it may not. i have
                                                                                                                            helped many customers beat it before, mostly with
                                                                                                                            tiger barbs. the gourami should live 2-5 years in
                                                                                                                            captivity easily.
                                                                                                                            --- agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > oh lordy... I so cant do any kind of smashing.. I
                                                                                                                            > just feel so bad like
                                                                                                                            > taking him out of his world he has so loved for
                                                                                                                            > nearly 2 years and destroying
                                                                                                                            > him.. I guess for my peace of mind I should wait
                                                                                                                            > till he stops eating or is
                                                                                                                            > suffering... then maybe ill feel better about all of
                                                                                                                            > this.. does that make
                                                                                                                            > sense... PS how long do gourami live.. if nearly 2
                                                                                                                            > years is a young life I think I
                                                                                                                            > don't deserve another... grr at me.. Shannon
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Shannon, As Harry said, by treating him at least
                                                                                                                            > you'll know that
                                                                                                                            > you've done everything possible, even though the
                                                                                                                            > odds aren't very
                                                                                                                            > good. If unfortunately it is fatal, that will save
                                                                                                                            > you the
                                                                                                                            > unpleasant job of having to kill him. FYI; there
                                                                                                                            > are two very humane
                                                                                                                            > methods of killing fish, short of smashing him to
                                                                                                                            > the floor with one
                                                                                                                            > quick blow. You could put him in club soda
                                                                                                                            > (carbonated water) in
                                                                                                                            > which he'll pass out in short time, or you could put
                                                                                                                            > him in a small
                                                                                                                            > container of water and put him in the refrigerator.
                                                                                                                            > He won't
                                                                                                                            > really "feel" the cold, but his metabolism will
                                                                                                                            > steadily slow down to
                                                                                                                            > the point that it will finally cease. Just
                                                                                                                            > something to keep in
                                                                                                                            > mind. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                            > \
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >



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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10154 From: paul helms Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: How Many Fish
                                                                                                                            unfortunately they are not ..."grow to six inches"
                                                                                                                            does not mean in six months, but is their adult size,
                                                                                                                            where we all know that they can and do reach 2 feet in
                                                                                                                            the aquarium

                                                                                                                            --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > Well, they're just talking about the first three
                                                                                                                            > months. <grin>
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Seriously though, both of my Pacu LOVE flake. They
                                                                                                                            > also love grapes,
                                                                                                                            > cherry tomatos, zuchini, peas, etc.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > paul helms said:
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > uh huh ..yeah right!
                                                                                                                            > > lmao
                                                                                                                            > > they also (wal-mart) had a label in CA that said
                                                                                                                            > red
                                                                                                                            > > bellied pacu's were peaceful community fish that
                                                                                                                            > grow
                                                                                                                            > > to 6 inches! and eat flake food!
                                                                                                                            > > --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                            > > <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > >> But the label at the w-mart says they grow to 10
                                                                                                                            > >> inches, so it must be true,
                                                                                                                            > >> mustn't it? :)
                                                                                                                            > >>
                                                                                                                            > >> Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            > >> -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            > >> interesting, but pat...an oscar would then need
                                                                                                                            > 200
                                                                                                                            > >> inches not 100....lol
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                            > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                            > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources
                                                                                                                            > site!
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10155 From: paul helms Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please.
                                                                                                                            don't know where west minster is, but the state of
                                                                                                                            california has a ban on them....people do sell things
                                                                                                                            illegally.
                                                                                                                            --- The Doctor <doctor34@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > That's odd... If they are illegal in California,
                                                                                                                            > why does Petco in
                                                                                                                            > Westminster often have them???
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                            > From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                            > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                            > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 1:09 PM
                                                                                                                            > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae control. Your
                                                                                                                            > opinions please.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > > that is what they do, you will have over 100 in a
                                                                                                                            > > matter of a week or so. that is why they are
                                                                                                                            > illegal
                                                                                                                            > > in california. they are worried about them
                                                                                                                            > getting
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >



                                                                                                                            __________________________________
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10156 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            so what meds should I treat it with if I get it out of the tank.. I just added maracyn in the tank last night.. Shannon

                                                                                                                            you don't have to smash the fish.... you can do it
                                                                                                                            gentle in a bag of soda water (seltzer) or in the
                                                                                                                            freezer.  besides.....dropsy is a bacterial infection
                                                                                                                            and can be treated, it may work it may not.  i have
                                                                                                                            helped many customers beat it before, mostly with
                                                                                                                            tiger barbs. the gourami should live 2-5 years in
                                                                                                                            captivity easily.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10157 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: How Many Fish
                                                                                                                            I know that. That's why I said that they were talking about them hitting
                                                                                                                            six inches in the first three months. I'm fully prepared for when my guys
                                                                                                                            are full grown. Right now, they're 5 and 10 inches long.



                                                                                                                            paul helms said:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > unfortunately they are not ..."grow to six inches"
                                                                                                                            > does not mean in six months, but is their adult size,
                                                                                                                            > where we all know that they can and do reach 2 feet in
                                                                                                                            > the aquarium
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >> Well, they're just talking about the first three
                                                                                                                            >> months. <grin>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >> Seriously though, both of my Pacu LOVE flake. They
                                                                                                                            >> also love grapes,
                                                                                                                            >> cherry tomatos, zuchini, peas, etc.
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >> paul helms said:
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> > uh huh ..yeah right!
                                                                                                                            >> > lmao
                                                                                                                            >> > they also (wal-mart) had a label in CA that said
                                                                                                                            >> red
                                                                                                                            >> > bellied pacu's were peaceful community fish that
                                                                                                                            >> grow
                                                                                                                            >> > to 6 inches! and eat flake food!
                                                                                                                            >> > --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                            >> > <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >> >> But the label at the w-mart says they grow to 10
                                                                                                                            >> >> inches, so it must be true,
                                                                                                                            >> >> mustn't it? :)
                                                                                                                            >> >>
                                                                                                                            >> >> Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            >> >> -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            >> >> interesting, but pat...an oscar would then need
                                                                                                                            >> 200
                                                                                                                            >> >> inches not 100....lol
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> > __________________________________
                                                                                                                            >> > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                            >> > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources
                                                                                                                            >> site!
                                                                                                                            >> > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                                            >> when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            >> > .
                                                                                                                            >> > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                            >> that is not important to
                                                                                                                            >> > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                                                            >> original message modify the
                                                                                                                            >> > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                            >> subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                            >> > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                            >> >
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                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10158 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed(euthanasia)
                                                                                                                            Exploring Fish Euthanasia if it comes to putting a fish down this article was very informative and I think most people could learn a thing or two from it.

                                                                                                                            I'd remove the fish to a bowl or another tank to do any medicating. I don't like medicting fish that are not sick.
                                                                                                                            Good luck with what ever you decide to do

                                                                                                                            rob
                                                                                                                            Indiana
                                                                                                                            USA


                                                                                                                            In a message dated 4/10/2005 11:48:35 AM US Eastern Standard Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:


                                                                                                                            you don't have to smash the fish.... you can do it
                                                                                                                            gentle in a bag of soda water (seltzer) or in the
                                                                                                                            freezer.


                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10159 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: California Ramshorn Ban
                                                                                                                            A lot of the snails probally come in on aquatic plants from states where they are not illegal or the snails where established before the ban and the store just can't get rid of them ( probally the case).
                                                                                                                            Just because something becomes illegal doesn't mean those that are already established can be confined and wiped out over night. I've thaught I had all my snail problems taken care of a few times to find a new snail pop up out of no where....


                                                                                                                            rob
                                                                                                                            Indiana



                                                                                                                            In a message dated 4/10/2005 11:53:39 AM US Eastern Standard Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:


                                                                                                                            don't know where west minster is, but the state of
                                                                                                                            california has a ban on them....people do sell things
                                                                                                                            illegally.


                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10160 From: harry perry Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: How Many Fish/To Ron and all. Mature sizes of fish. Opinions pl
                                                                                                                            Dear Ron
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            How do you prepare for an eventual 4 feet of fish?. At that point I would suspect you'll be feeding the neighbors dog and cats. We are talking big bucks for a tank big enough to hold just 2 fish. I not saying you would but this is why fish are released into the wild and why fish and plants are being banned in the U.S in alarming numbers. My LFS sells aligator gars. I have caught this fish while bass fishing in Florida. It was 3 feet long with nasty teeth. We all need to think about the size of the fish at maturity and if you have the money for a 500 gal tank God bless you.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Harry

                                                                                                                            Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            I know that.  That's why I said that they were talking about them hitting
                                                                                                                            six inches in the first three months.  I'm fully prepared for when my guys
                                                                                                                            are full grown.  Right now, they're 5 and 10 inches long.



                                                                                                                            paul helms said:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > unfortunately they are not ..."grow to six inches"
                                                                                                                            > does not mean in six months, but is their adult size,
                                                                                                                            > where we all know that they can and do reach 2 feet in
                                                                                                                            > the aquarium
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >> Well, they're just talking about the first three
                                                                                                                            >> months. <grin>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >> Seriously though, both of my Pacu LOVE flake.  They
                                                                                                                            >> also love grapes,
                                                                                                                            >> cherry tomatos, zuchini, peas, etc.
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >> paul helms said:
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> > uh huh ..yeah right!
                                                                                                                            >> > lmao
                                                                                                                            >> > they also (wal-mart) had a label in CA that said
                                                                                                                            >> red
                                                                                                                            >> > bellied pacu's were peaceful community fish that
                                                                                                                            >> grow
                                                                                                                            >> > to 6 inches! and eat flake food!
                                                                                                                            >> > --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                            >> > <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >> >> But the label at the w-mart says they grow to 10
                                                                                                                            >> >> inches, so it must be true,
                                                                                                                            >> >> mustn't it? :)
                                                                                                                            >> >>
                                                                                                                            >> >> Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            >> >> -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            >> >> interesting, but pat...an oscar would then need
                                                                                                                            >> 200
                                                                                                                            >> >> inches not 100....lol
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> > __________________________________
                                                                                                                            >> > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                            >> > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources
                                                                                                                            >> site!
                                                                                                                            >> > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                                            >> when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            >> > .
                                                                                                                            >> > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                            >> that is not important to
                                                                                                                            >> > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                                                            >> original message modify the
                                                                                                                            >> > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                            >> subject)" <-,  we Thank You
                                                                                                                            >> > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
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                                                                                                                            >




                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10161 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinion...
                                                                                                                            Harry, I agree 100% with you.
                                                                                                                            A lot of hobbyists like the Big mean fish but are in no way prepeared to take care of them when adults. Back in Oregon they found 6 Red Belly Piranha in one of the local waterways ( Fern Ridge Reservoir circa 1990).  They where all 10" and bigger.  The Fish and Wildlife said they wouldn't have been able to survive the cold winter, but still its the idea. I have fished the Upper Willammette river in oregon and caught Goldfish and koi.
                                                                                                                            Here in Indiana the local Zoo is having a problem in there 2 acre Fish Pond. It seems that a few hobbyist have released Pleco's( 12" + ) into the pond and the fish are now burrowing into the mud banks. They are undercutting the paved walkways and causing the bank to erode. Of course they have not mentioned any breeding takin place but i wouldn't doubt it if the Plecs are compatible.

                                                                                                                            A "hobbyist" using this term loosely bought a nurse shark, housed him in a 220 gallon tank within 6 months the shark had outgrown the tank. No one wanted the shark. Couldn't get rid of it.  I hate to think what he would have done with it if the Local Zoo hadn't taken it off his hands. Zoo just built a 30000 gallon shark exibit.

                                                                                                                            I have heard of people finding dead tropical fish in creeks around here. But if the fish where to be released during summer where the water gets into the 70's the fish could survive and breed.  It could cause some major issues
                                                                                                                            When i was in Florida a couple years ago, I was talking with a local who was complaining that the Oscar population was out competing the native fish in the local waterways.

                                                                                                                            People should do the research before purchasing the fish. And if they do not have the tank space already for a full grown fish they shouldn't purchase the fish.

                                                                                                                            my 2 cents like it or not
                                                                                                                            Rob
                                                                                                                            Indiana
                                                                                                                            USA



                                                                                                                            In a message dated 4/10/2005 12:54:01 PM US Eastern Standard Time, harryfisherman@... writes:


                                                                                                                            I not saying you would but this is why fish are released into the wild and why fish and plants are being banned in the U.S in alarming numbers. My LFS sells aligator gars. I have caught this fish while bass fishing in Florida. It was 3 feet long with nasty teeth. We all need to think about the size of the fish at maturity and if you have the money for a 500 gal tank God bless you.


                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10162 From: swarve_gorilla Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Hello..... fresh fish..... do I soak my bag in this tank before I
                                                                                                                            Yellow!
                                                                                                                            Just copped an invite from the massage therapist. So yea cheers for
                                                                                                                            that, don't have a single bad word to say about massage therapists!!
                                                                                                                            THEY ROCK!!

                                                                                                                            Anyway me... I ummmm... well I work in a petshop. Have kept fish for
                                                                                                                            a few years now. Mainly africans (malawi and vic plus few tans) and
                                                                                                                            community (dwarf cichlids, gouramis, live bearers) but also a fair few
                                                                                                                            catfish. At the moment I am setting up an octopus tank.... it's
                                                                                                                            cycled just fine tuning the lid now. But getting a bit more in tune
                                                                                                                            with marine now.

                                                                                                                            I have done a few DIY projects now..... get a kick outta
                                                                                                                            making 'potions' that are sold as miracles in this hobby.

                                                                                                                            As for the rest well I'm in Australia... the very most easterly point.
                                                                                                                            Be good to read thru all ya dirty laundry and get up to speed here so
                                                                                                                            I don't bring up da same old stuff.

                                                                                                                            :-)
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10163 From: mknobsb Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Betta in Tank
                                                                                                                            My betta seems to be unhappy. I live in the middle of no where and
                                                                                                                            can't get pretty plants. But tomarrow they should arrive. I have
                                                                                                                            ordered several and I hope this makes my betta very happy. He lives
                                                                                                                            with other tetras, of differnt kinds.

                                                                                                                            Tara
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10164 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Betta in Tank
                                                                                                                            Yah, my bettas seem to be happiest when they can lurk around in
                                                                                                                            greenery and hide in rocks and holes. They don't stay hidden, but they
                                                                                                                            seem to like to have a bolt hole

                                                                                                                            > My betta seems to be unhappy. I live in the middle of no where and
                                                                                                                            > can't get pretty plants. But tomarrow they should arrive. I have
                                                                                                                            > ordered several and I hope this makes my betta very happy. He lives
                                                                                                                            > with other tetras, of differnt kinds.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Tara
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10165 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            Shannon, Go back and read my last TWO replies (#10147 & #10148 on the
                                                                                                                            Group site). I see you did not read my last one completely or you
                                                                                                                            would have seen how else to kill him without having to resort to
                                                                                                                            smashing him. I explained club soda (carbonated water) and putting him
                                                                                                                            in a small container of water in the fridge. My previous post runs you
                                                                                                                            through exactly what medicines to use to treat him. As it is a VIRUS,
                                                                                                                            you may not be successful, but its worth a try. You should have gotten
                                                                                                                            these two replies with your email, but if not, go to the site.
                                                                                                                            Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                            \
                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > so what meds should I treat it with if I get it out of the tank.. I
                                                                                                                            just
                                                                                                                            > added maracyn in the tank last night.. Shannon
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > you don't have to smash the fish.... you can do it
                                                                                                                            > gentle in a bag of soda water (seltzer) or in the
                                                                                                                            > freezer. besides.....dropsy is a bacterial infection
                                                                                                                            > and can be treated, it may work it may not. i have
                                                                                                                            > helped many customers beat it before, mostly with
                                                                                                                            > tiger barbs. the gourami should live 2-5 years in
                                                                                                                            > captivity easily.
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10166 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                                I think 4 foot fish don't need a tank.  According to my 10 times the length rule, it would need a 40 foot body of water, and probably 10 feet wide for it to turn around.  I would say a quarter acre pond would be about the right size for a 4 foot fish. 
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            Dear Ron
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            How do you prepare for an eventual 4 feet of fish?. At that point I would suspect you'll be feeding the neighbors dog and cats. We are talking big bucks for a tank big enough to hold just 2 fish. I not saying you would but this is why fish are released into the wild and why fish and plants are being banned in the U.S in alarming numbers. My LFS sells aligator gars. I have caught this fish while bass fishing in Florida. It was 3 feet long with nasty teeth. We all need to think about the size of the fish at maturity and if you have the money for a 500 gal tank God bless you.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Harry
                                                                                                                            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10167 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon
                                                                                                                            yea I got them.. I was just saying or thinking from my head.. that I wouldn't be able to do one way not saying there wasn't or isn't other ways... rob also posted a useful site that goes through a good amount of ideas..  right now he is in a buck with one of my cories that has had a fungus for like 5 months figure ill try and treat both... thanks for your help.. a very sad Shannon


                                                                                                                            Shannon,  Go back and read my last TWO replies (#10147 & #10148 on the
                                                                                                                            Group site).  I see you did not read my last one completely or you
                                                                                                                            would have seen how else to kill him without having to resort to
                                                                                                                            smashing him.  I explained club soda (carbonated water) and putting him
                                                                                                                            in a small container of water in the fridge.  My previous post runs you
                                                                                                                            through exactly what medicines to use to treat him.  As it is a VIRUS,
                                                                                                                            you may not be successful, but its worth a try.  You should have gotten
                                                                                                                            these two replies with your email, but if not, go to the site. 
                                                                                                                            Regards,  Ray         
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10168 From: Rachel Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Betta in Tank
                                                                                                                            my friend put her betta in a tiny container, like a 4th of a gallon or
                                                                                                                            less. so when she gave him to me i put him in my 5.5 gal tank with my
                                                                                                                            tetras. he absolutely loves the space, plants, and rock. hes still so
                                                                                                                            shy when i come around, but now he has a place to hide. and he hasnt
                                                                                                                            eaten my tetras yet. :D

                                                                                                                            i got many bulbs. some are sprouting already. beauty.


                                                                                                                            Rachel
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10169 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: How Many Fish/To Ron and all. Mature sizes of fish. Opinions pl
                                                                                                                            My main tank is a 220 gallon corner bow. It's sort of like a 125 gallon
                                                                                                                            that's 3-4 feet wide (it's kind of a triangle). They'll have plenty of
                                                                                                                            space. (And if not, I'll get something bigger.) I would not have gotten
                                                                                                                            one (much less two) if I wasn't prepared for their size. I would NEVER
                                                                                                                            release a fish into the wild.

                                                                                                                            Mechanical filtration is by means of a sponge prefilter for my pump,
                                                                                                                            http://www.dolphinpumps.com/73203210077.jpg (that's about 12" high)
                                                                                                                            http://www.dolphinpumps.com/pre%20filter%20core%20.jpg

                                                                                                                            and by then by means of a bank of Pentair Aquatics (Rainbow Lifegard)
                                                                                                                            filter modules.

                                                                                                                            Biological filtration is taken care of by a fluidized bed filter that is
                                                                                                                            rated for 300 gallons and a second one that is rated for 600.

                                                                                                                            Whenever I desire, I can switch in a carbon canister. I can also hook up
                                                                                                                            my Diatom filter.

                                                                                                                            It's pretty cool that I've got three tanks and all those filters running
                                                                                                                            off one single pump.





                                                                                                                            harry perry said:
                                                                                                                            > Dear Ron
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > How do you prepare for an eventual 4 feet of fish?. At that point I would
                                                                                                                            > suspect you'll be feeding the neighbors dog and cats. We are talking big
                                                                                                                            > bucks for a tank big enough to hold just 2 fish. I not saying you would
                                                                                                                            > but this is why fish are released into the wild and why fish and plants
                                                                                                                            > are being banned in the U.S in alarming numbers. My LFS sells aligator
                                                                                                                            > gars. I have caught this fish while bass fishing in Florida. It was 3 feet
                                                                                                                            > long with nasty teeth. We all need to think about the size of the fish at
                                                                                                                            > maturity and if you have the money for a 500 gal tank God bless you.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Harry
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > I know that. That's why I said that they were talking about them hitting
                                                                                                                            > six inches in the first three months. I'm fully prepared for when my guys
                                                                                                                            > are full grown. Right now, they're 5 and 10 inches long.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > paul helms said:
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >> unfortunately they are not ..."grow to six inches"
                                                                                                                            >> does not mean in six months, but is their adult size,
                                                                                                                            >> where we all know that they can and do reach 2 feet in
                                                                                                                            >> the aquarium
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >> --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >>> Well, they're just talking about the first three
                                                                                                                            >>> months. <grin>
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>> Seriously though, both of my Pacu LOVE flake. They
                                                                                                                            >>> also love grapes,
                                                                                                                            >>> cherry tomatos, zuchini, peas, etc.
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>> paul helms said:
                                                                                                                            >>> >
                                                                                                                            >>> > uh huh ..yeah right!
                                                                                                                            >>> > lmao
                                                                                                                            >>> > they also (wal-mart) had a label in CA that said
                                                                                                                            >>> red
                                                                                                                            >>> > bellied pacu's were peaceful community fish that
                                                                                                                            >>> grow
                                                                                                                            >>> > to 6 inches! and eat flake food!
                                                                                                                            >>> > --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                            >>> > <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >>> >> But the label at the w-mart says they grow to 10
                                                                                                                            >>> >> inches, so it must be true,
                                                                                                                            >>> >> mustn't it? :)
                                                                                                                            >>> >>
                                                                                                                            >>> >> Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            >>> >> -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            >>> >> interesting, but pat...an oscar would then need
                                                                                                                            >>> 200
                                                                                                                            >>> >> inches not 100....lol
                                                                                                                            >>> >
                                                                                                                            >>> >
                                                                                                                            >>> >
                                                                                                                            >>> > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10170 From: William Autry Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: cleaning
                                                                                                                            I have to clean my tank I have took all the water out the glass locks
                                                                                                                            cloudy what can clean it going to make it a salt water tank
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10171 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                            Four feet of fish, not one four foot fish. Red Belly Pacu grow to 18"-24"
                                                                                                                            long (their cousins the Black Pacu grow much bigger than that). My tank
                                                                                                                            has a max width of 48" so they'll have no problems moving around.



                                                                                                                            Patrick, American Fish Guy said:
                                                                                                                            > I think 4 foot fish don't need a tank. According to my 10 times the
                                                                                                                            > length rule, it would need a 40 foot body of water, and probably 10 feet
                                                                                                                            > wide for it to turn around. I would say a quarter acre pond would be
                                                                                                                            > about
                                                                                                                            > the right size for a 4 foot fish.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            > Dear Ron
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > How do you prepare for an eventual 4 feet of fish?. At that point I would
                                                                                                                            > suspect you'll be feeding the neighbors dog and cats. We are talking big
                                                                                                                            > bucks for a tank big enough to hold just 2 fish. I not saying you would
                                                                                                                            > but
                                                                                                                            > this is why fish are released into the wild and why fish and plants are
                                                                                                                            > being banned in the U.S in alarming numbers. My LFS sells aligator gars. I
                                                                                                                            > have caught this fish while bass fishing in Florida. It was 3 feet long
                                                                                                                            > with
                                                                                                                            > nasty teeth. We all need to think about the size of the fish at maturity
                                                                                                                            > and
                                                                                                                            > if you have the money for a 500 gal tank God bless you.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Harry
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10172 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: cleaning
                                                                                                                            Two things:

                                                                                                                            1. Vinegar and water will remove stains. Rinse it when you're done.

                                                                                                                            2. Bleach and water. After you are done, rinse it thoroughly and let it
                                                                                                                            air dry in the sun (for at least 6+ hours). DO NOT use it until it is
                                                                                                                            completely dry, and dry it in the sun (NOT indoors).





                                                                                                                            William Autry said:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > I have to clean my tank I have took all the water out the glass locks
                                                                                                                            > cloudy what can clean it going to make it a salt water tank
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10173 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: cleaning
                                                                                                                            no water, no fish , no gravel bare tank use a combo of bleach and water rinse well, ..
                                                                                                                            or vinegar and water combo..

                                                                                                                            rob
                                                                                                                            Indiana


                                                                                                                            In a message dated 4/10/2005 9:50:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time, paulandsue1@... writes:



                                                                                                                            I have to clean my tank I have took all the water out the glass locks
                                                                                                                            cloudy what can clean it going to make it a salt water tank


                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10174 From: Bev Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Picky Discus
                                                                                                                            Help, Please, I have 4 Discus fish and I am having trouble getting
                                                                                                                            them to eat. I have tried Frozen Brine Shrimp, fresh and frozen
                                                                                                                            beef-heart, Frozen Discus de-light, Golden Pearls, frozen and dried
                                                                                                                            blood worm and several flake type foods and the are not eating enough.
                                                                                                                            These guys seem to be wasting away. I monitor the PH and keep it
                                                                                                                            around 7 and do regular water changes . Any suggestions would be
                                                                                                                            greatly appreciated.

                                                                                                                            I suggest an Apple snail for algea problems. They do not eat healthy
                                                                                                                            live plants. And can not breed with a male and a female. They lay
                                                                                                                            their eggs above water so if you do not want babies keep your tanks
                                                                                                                            full or remove their very visable eggs and you halt reproduction. Make
                                                                                                                            sure you get Apple sanils not the other breeds which eat live plants.
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10175 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Picky Discus
                                                                                                                            How long have you had the Discuss? whats the water temperature? Ph is high but I have seen them in higher PH and do well. They do prefer soft water and low Ph though.

                                                                                                                            Ammonia,Nitrates? Discuss need very clean and well maintained water conditions that is what make Discuss so hard to keep.

                                                                                                                            Do they have enough hiding places? Discuss are shy fish that like to hide. have any kind of dither fish? other fish swimming around care free sometimes make the discuss feel comfortable.

                                                                                                                            Since you didn't give us much info we don't really know how to answer your question. More info would be Very nice and useful.


                                                                                                                            rob
                                                                                                                            Indiana

                                                                                                                            ( non discuss keeper)


                                                                                                                            In a message dated 4/10/2005 11:05:16 PM US Eastern Standard Time, bfulkes@... writes:


                                                                                                                            Help, Please, I have 4 Discus fish and I am having trouble getting
                                                                                                                            them to eat. I have tried Frozen Brine Shrimp, fresh and frozen
                                                                                                                            beef-heart, Frozen Discus de-light, Golden Pearls, frozen and dried
                                                                                                                            blood worm and several flake type foods and the are not eating enough.
                                                                                                                            These guys seem to be wasting away. I monitor the PH and keep it
                                                                                                                            around 7 and do regular water changes .  Any suggestions would be
                                                                                                                            greatly appreciated


                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10176 From: paul helms Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                            you are quoted an expected size in a large
                                                                                                                            aquarium...in the wild they get much larger than that.
                                                                                                                            18-24 inches is the "stunted" size
                                                                                                                            --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > Four feet of fish, not one four foot fish. Red
                                                                                                                            > Belly Pacu grow to 18"-24"
                                                                                                                            > long (their cousins the Black Pacu grow much bigger
                                                                                                                            > than that). My tank
                                                                                                                            > has a max width of 48" so they'll have no problems
                                                                                                                            > moving around.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Patrick, American Fish Guy said:
                                                                                                                            > > I think 4 foot fish don't need a tank.
                                                                                                                            > According to my 10 times the
                                                                                                                            > > length rule, it would need a 40 foot body of
                                                                                                                            > water, and probably 10 feet
                                                                                                                            > > wide for it to turn around. I would say a quarter
                                                                                                                            > acre pond would be
                                                                                                                            > > about
                                                                                                                            > > the right size for a 4 foot fish.
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            > > Dear Ron
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > How do you prepare for an eventual 4 feet of
                                                                                                                            > fish?. At that point I would
                                                                                                                            > > suspect you'll be feeding the neighbors dog and
                                                                                                                            > cats. We are talking big
                                                                                                                            > > bucks for a tank big enough to hold just 2 fish. I
                                                                                                                            > not saying you would
                                                                                                                            > > but
                                                                                                                            > > this is why fish are released into the wild and
                                                                                                                            > why fish and plants are
                                                                                                                            > > being banned in the U.S in alarming numbers. My
                                                                                                                            > LFS sells aligator gars. I
                                                                                                                            > > have caught this fish while bass fishing in
                                                                                                                            > Florida. It was 3 feet long
                                                                                                                            > > with
                                                                                                                            > > nasty teeth. We all need to think about the size
                                                                                                                            > of the fish at maturity
                                                                                                                            > > and
                                                                                                                            > > if you have the money for a 500 gal tank God bless
                                                                                                                            > you.
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > Harry
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >



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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10177 From: paul helms Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: California Ramshorn Ban
                                                                                                                            what does that have to do with them being sold in
                                                                                                                            westminster ca? illegal is illegal. i take mine into
                                                                                                                            work all the time to keep large tanks clean....i just
                                                                                                                            won't sell them. if one happens to jump into a bag
                                                                                                                            with a fish for some one that i know...who will not
                                                                                                                            release into teh wild...oh well
                                                                                                                            --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                            > A lot of the snails probally come in on aquatic
                                                                                                                            > plants from states where they
                                                                                                                            > are not illegal or the snails where established
                                                                                                                            > before the ban and the store
                                                                                                                            > just can't get rid of them ( probally the case).
                                                                                                                            > Just because something becomes illegal doesn't mean
                                                                                                                            > those that are already
                                                                                                                            > established can be confined and wiped out over
                                                                                                                            > night. I've thaught I had all my
                                                                                                                            > snail problems taken care of a few times to find a
                                                                                                                            > new snail pop up out of no
                                                                                                                            > where....
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > rob
                                                                                                                            > Indiana
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > In a message dated 4/10/2005 11:53:39 AM US Eastern
                                                                                                                            > Standard Time,
                                                                                                                            > wtfmorlok@... writes:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > > don't know where west minster is, but the state of
                                                                                                                            > > california has a ban on them....people do sell
                                                                                                                            > things
                                                                                                                            > > illegally.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >




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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10178 From: paul helms Date: 4/10/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            whatever you do, do not mix meds! stick with one until
                                                                                                                            you are sure that it is not working, then add a crabon
                                                                                                                            filter ro pull all residual traces from the tank
                                                                                                                            before trying anything else....make sure you are not
                                                                                                                            runnign carbon during treatments
                                                                                                                            --- agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > so what meds should I treat it with if I get it out
                                                                                                                            > of the tank.. I just
                                                                                                                            > added maracyn in the tank last night.. Shannon
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > you don't have to smash the fish.... you can do it
                                                                                                                            > gentle in a bag of soda water (seltzer) or in the
                                                                                                                            > freezer. besides.....dropsy is a bacterial
                                                                                                                            > infection
                                                                                                                            > and can be treated, it may work it may not. i have
                                                                                                                            > helped many customers beat it before, mostly with
                                                                                                                            > tiger barbs. the gourami should live 2-5 years in
                                                                                                                            > captivity easily.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >



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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10179 From: daniel_roachus Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: How Many Fish
                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > uh huh ..yeah right!
                                                                                                                            > lmao
                                                                                                                            > they also (wal-mart) had a label in CA that said red
                                                                                                                            > bellied pacu's were peaceful community fish that grow
                                                                                                                            > to 6 inches! and eat flake food!

                                                                                                                            well - easy mistake to make hey???

                                                                                                                            ;)

                                                                                                                            The shop I was in last week said a 10ish gallon tank was big enough for
                                                                                                                            about 4 goldfish....
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10180 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again

                                                                                                                            Shannon,

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Read this article. I think it could be very helpful.

                                                                                                                            http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Also, raising the temperature while medicating is a good idea especially for labyrinth fish as they can take oxygen from the air.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                            From: agentscullyeyore@... [mailto:agentscullyeyore@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: 10 April 2005 17:53
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            so what meds should I treat it with if I get it out of the tank.. I just added maracyn in the tank last night.. Shannon


                                                                                                                            you don't have to smash the fish.... you can do it
                                                                                                                            gentle in a bag of soda water (seltzer) or in the
                                                                                                                            freezer.  besides.....dropsy is a bacterial infection
                                                                                                                            and can be treated, it may work it may not.  i have
                                                                                                                            helped many customers beat it before, mostly with
                                                                                                                            tiger barbs. the gourami should live 2-5 years in
                                                                                                                            captivity easily.

                                                                                                                             



                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10181 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                            No Paul. You are thinking of another species of Pacu.

                                                                                                                            Red Belly Pacu (Piaractus brachypomus) grow to 24" max.
                                                                                                                            http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/pacu-red.htm
                                                                                                                            http://www.jjphoto.dk/fish_archive/aquarium/piaractus_brachypomus.htm

                                                                                                                            Silver Pacu (Colossoma brachypomus) grow to 18" max.

                                                                                                                            Black Pacu (Colossoma macropomum) grow much larger (up to 60").
                                                                                                                            http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/pacu-blk.htm

                                                                                                                            Mine are piaractus brachypomus. Colossoma macropomum are not commonly sold.


                                                                                                                            paul helms said:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > you are quoted an expected size in a large
                                                                                                                            > aquarium...in the wild they get much larger than that.
                                                                                                                            > 18-24 inches is the "stunted" size
                                                                                                                            > --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >> Four feet of fish, not one four foot fish. Red
                                                                                                                            >> Belly Pacu grow to 18"-24"
                                                                                                                            >> long (their cousins the Black Pacu grow much bigger
                                                                                                                            >> than that). My tank
                                                                                                                            >> has a max width of 48" so they'll have no problems
                                                                                                                            >> moving around.
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >> Patrick, American Fish Guy said:
                                                                                                                            >> > I think 4 foot fish don't need a tank.
                                                                                                                            >> According to my 10 times the
                                                                                                                            >> > length rule, it would need a 40 foot body of
                                                                                                                            >> water, and probably 10 feet
                                                                                                                            >> > wide for it to turn around. I would say a quarter
                                                                                                                            >> acre pond would be
                                                                                                                            >> > about
                                                                                                                            >> > the right size for a 4 foot fish.
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            >> > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            >> > Dear Ron
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> > How do you prepare for an eventual 4 feet of
                                                                                                                            >> fish?. At that point I would
                                                                                                                            >> > suspect you'll be feeding the neighbors dog and
                                                                                                                            >> cats. We are talking big
                                                                                                                            >> > bucks for a tank big enough to hold just 2 fish. I
                                                                                                                            >> not saying you would
                                                                                                                            >> > but
                                                                                                                            >> > this is why fish are released into the wild and
                                                                                                                            >> why fish and plants are
                                                                                                                            >> > being banned in the U.S in alarming numbers. My
                                                                                                                            >> LFS sells aligator gars. I
                                                                                                                            >> > have caught this fish while bass fishing in
                                                                                                                            >> Florida. It was 3 feet long
                                                                                                                            >> > with
                                                                                                                            >> > nasty teeth. We all need to think about the size
                                                                                                                            >> of the fish at maturity
                                                                                                                            >> > and
                                                                                                                            >> > if you have the money for a 500 gal tank God bless
                                                                                                                            >> you.
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> > Harry
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10182 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            Appears to be a very interesting read, which may be somewhat
                                                                                                                            helpful. Any additional info on treating Dropsy is good to have on
                                                                                                                            hand as there's not enough generally known on the subject. The use
                                                                                                                            of Romet B (sulfadimethoxine & ormetoprim) would seem to be useful,
                                                                                                                            as outlined in the article. Romet B is generally mixed with the food
                                                                                                                            to get the medications taken internally. Medicating the tank water
                                                                                                                            is really of little use in this case. There is one drawback to this
                                                                                                                            treatment (besides finding a source); Romet B is available in 25 lb
                                                                                                                            and 10 lb (minumum) cans. Quite a bit to have to buy to treat one
                                                                                                                            fish. The pre-medicated food "Pepso" (containing nitrofurazone &
                                                                                                                            sodium sulfathiozole) is much more conveniently packaged and contains
                                                                                                                            about the best medications for use in this treatment. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                            \
                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                            > Shannon,
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Read this article. I think it could be very helpful.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Also, raising the temperature while medicating is a good idea
                                                                                                                            especially for
                                                                                                                            > labyrinth fish as they can take oxygen from the air.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Nim
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > _____
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > From: agentscullyeyore@a... [mailto:agentscullyeyore@a...]
                                                                                                                            > Sent: 10 April 2005 17:53
                                                                                                                            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > so what meds should I treat it with if I get it out of the tank.. I
                                                                                                                            just
                                                                                                                            > added maracyn in the tank last night.. Shannon
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > you don't have to smash the fish.... you can do it
                                                                                                                            > gentle in a bag of soda water (seltzer) or in the
                                                                                                                            > freezer. besides.....dropsy is a bacterial infection
                                                                                                                            > and can be treated, it may work it may not. i have
                                                                                                                            > helped many customers beat it before, mostly with
                                                                                                                            > tiger barbs. the gourami should live 2-5 years in
                                                                                                                            > captivity easily.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                            thanks
                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
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                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
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                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                            Thank You
                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > _____
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10183 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                                Ok, then a 2 foot fish needs a 20 foot tank.  A 2 foot fish in a 4 foot tank is like putting a 1 foot wide person in a 2 foot wide closet.  They will fit with extra space, but they CANNOT move.  Not to mention that a 4 foot tank is not 4 foot front to back.  These fish won't be able to turn around when they get up to 2 feet long. 
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            Four feet of fish, not one four foot fish.  Red Belly Pacu grow to 18"-24" long (their cousins the Black Pacu grow much bigger than that).  My tank has a max width of 48" so they'll have no problems moving around.
                                                                                                                            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10184 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            thanks... yea I have them in a bucket no carbon.. but the gourami and now killifish with some other issue are like from what I can tell doing ok.. its hard to see when you are looking down into them lol.. thanks Shannon
                                                                                                                            whatever you do, do not mix meds! stick with one until
                                                                                                                            you are sure that it is not working, then add a crabon
                                                                                                                            filter ro pull all residual traces from the tank
                                                                                                                            before trying anything else....make sure you are not
                                                                                                                            runnign carbon during treatments
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10185 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            well crappers I guess this is the one time when you can use Epsom salt lol and off course I used the aquarium.. so I think I made it worse.. well I guess its all learning right... thanks or the article nim.. shannon

                                                                                                                            Shannon,

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Read this article. I think it could be very helpful.

                                                                                                                            http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Also, raising the temperature while medicating is a good idea especially for labyrinth fish as they can take oxygen from the air.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10186 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                            Again, my tank is not rectangular. It is a quarter-circle. Think of it
                                                                                                                            as a triangle with sides that are 4', 4' and 6'. It is 4' wide (front to
                                                                                                                            back) not long (side to side). And again, IF they grow to 24" (and not
                                                                                                                            just 18"), I will get a bigger tank. At 18" long, they will have plenty
                                                                                                                            of space in the current tank.


                                                                                                                            Patrick, American Fish Guy said:
                                                                                                                            > Ok, then a 2 foot fish needs a 20 foot tank. A 2 foot fish in a 4
                                                                                                                            > foot
                                                                                                                            > tank is like putting a 1 foot wide person in a 2 foot wide closet. They
                                                                                                                            > will fit with extra space, but they CANNOT move. Not to mention that a 4
                                                                                                                            > foot tank is not 4 foot front to back. These fish won't be able to turn
                                                                                                                            > around when they get up to 2 feet long.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            > Four feet of fish, not one four foot fish. Red Belly Pacu grow to 18"-24"
                                                                                                                            > long (their cousins the Black Pacu grow much bigger than that). My tank
                                                                                                                            > has a max width of 48" so they'll have no problems moving around.
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10187 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Beta in Tropical Tank?

                                                                                                                            My son has a gorgeous lonely male beta.  We have this 55 gal tropical tank & I’d like to stick him in it so he’ll have more room.  He is so excited when the lights go on & someone enters the room.  Seems like he’s bored out of his mind.  Would he be OK in the tank?  For those who don’t know, we have 2 lg. blood parrots, 1 firemouth, black skirts, giant danios, 1 catfish and a tetra of some kind.

                                                                                                                            I just want to make sure he won’t hurt anyone or be hurt. 

                                                                                                                            Thanks.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10188 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?

                                                                                                                            Lol. I will be amazed if a Betta lasts more then 10 minutes in a tank with Black skirts+Blood Parrots+ Firemouth cichlids. Giant danios may leave him alone and if the other tetra is a saerpe or similar ferocious tetra then reduce the 10 minutes to 5.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            I think he will always prefer to be in a small tank alone rather with these companions.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                            From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: 11 April 2005 17:58
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ; naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] Beta in Tropical Tank?

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            My son has a gorgeous lonely male beta.  We have this 55 gal tropical tank & I’d like to stick him in it so he’ll have more room.  He is so excited when the lights go on & someone enters the room.  Seems like he’s bored out of his mind.  Would he be OK in the tank?  For those who don’t know, we have 2 lg. blood parrots, 1 firemouth, black skirts, giant danios, 1 catfish and a tetra of some kind.

                                                                                                                            I just want to make sure he won’t hurt anyone or be hurt. 

                                                                                                                            Thanks.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             



                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10189 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?

                                                                                                                            Lol

                                                                                                                            So glad I asked.  Poor guy though!  He looks SO bored!  Is there anything I can do to give him some harmless entertainment?

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            From: Nimish Mathur [mailto:nimmat4@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:15 PM
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Beta in Tropical Tank?

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Lol. I will be amazed if a Betta lasts more then 10 minutes in a tank with Black skirts+Blood Parrots+ Firemouth cichlids. Giant danios may leave him alone and if the other tetra is a saerpe or similar ferocious tetra then reduce the 10 minutes to 5.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            I think he will always prefer to be in a small tank alone rather with these companions.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                            From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: 11 April 2005 17:58
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] Beta in Tropical Tank?

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            My son has a gorgeous lonely male beta.  We have this 55 gal tropical tank & I’d like to stick him in it so he’ll have more room.  He is so excited when the lights go on & someone enters the room.  Seems like he’s bored out of his mind.  Would he be OK in the tank?  For those who don’t know, we have 2 lg. blood parrots, 1 firemouth, black skirts, giant danios, 1 catfish and a tetra of some kind.

                                                                                                                            I just want to make sure he won’t hurt anyone or be hurt. 

                                                                                                                            Thanks.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             



                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10190 From: Amalthea Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?
                                                                                                                            i keep mine in a tank with a blood parrot and several other semi
                                                                                                                            aggressive cichlids and he's happy as a clam. he's actually a little
                                                                                                                            abusive to one of my red tailed sharks and i'm currently looking for
                                                                                                                            another home for the shark due to that.
                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                            Bored? Never Fear!
                                                                                                                            http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
                                                                                                                            On Apr 11, 2005, at 1:19 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                                                            > Lol
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > So glad I asked.  Poor guy though!  He looks SO bored!  Is there
                                                                                                                            > anything I can do to give him some harmless entertainment?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            > From: Nimish Mathur [mailto:nimmat4@...]
                                                                                                                            > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:15 PM
                                                                                                                            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Beta in Tropical Tank?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Lol. I will be amazed if a Betta lasts more then 10 minutes in a tank
                                                                                                                            > with Black skirts+Blood Parrots+ Firemouth cichlids. Giant danios may
                                                                                                                            > leave him alone and if the other tetra is a saerpe or similar
                                                                                                                            > ferocious tetra then reduce the 10 minutes to 5.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > I think he will always prefer to be in a small tank alone rather with
                                                                                                                            > these companions.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Nim
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@...]
                                                                                                                            > Sent: 11 April 2005 17:58
                                                                                                                            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com;
                                                                                                                            > naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            > Subject: [AquaticLife] Beta in Tropical Tank?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > My son has a gorgeous lonely male beta.  We have this 55 gal tropical
                                                                                                                            > tank & I’d like to stick him in it so he’ll have more room.  He is so
                                                                                                                            > excited when the lights go on & someone enters the room.  Seems like
                                                                                                                            > he’s bored out of his mind.  Would he be OK in the tank?  For those
                                                                                                                            > who don’t know, we have 2 lg. blood parrots, 1 firemouth, black
                                                                                                                            > skirts, giant danios, 1 catfish and a tetra of some kind.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > I just want to make sure he won’t hurt anyone or be hurt. 
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Thanks.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                            > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10191 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?

                                                                                                                            Well, if you have loads of plants then you could get a couple of female betas in with him. Other then that you can keep corydoras, Apple snails, caradinia shrimps, pencil fish, hatchets, neon tetras, cardinals and other very peaceful fish with him without any problems. He may be able to get along with some semi aggressive fish but it is really only until they realize that his fins are food. I had my Betta live with gold barbs and rainbows for months until someone tore his fins once and then they realized it could be food. Now I cannot put any betta with them as they will rip him apart in seconds.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                            From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: 11 April 2005 18:19
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Beta in Tropical Tank?

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Lol

                                                                                                                            So glad I asked.  Poor guy though!  He looks SO bored!  Is there anything I can do to give him some harmless entertainment?

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            From: Nimish Mathur [mailto: nimmat4@... ]
                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:15 PM
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Beta in Tropical Tank?

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Lol. I will be amazed if a Betta lasts more then 10 minutes in a tank with Black skirts+Blood Parrots+ Firemouth cichlids. Giant danios may leave him alone and if the other tetra is a saerpe or similar ferocious tetra then reduce the 10 minutes to 5.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            I think he will always prefer to be in a small tank alone rather with these companions.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                            From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: 11 April 2005 17:58
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ; naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] Beta in Tropical Tank?

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            My son has a gorgeous lonely male beta.  We have this 55 gal tropical tank & I’d like to stick him in it so he’ll have more room.  He is so excited when the lights go on & someone enters the room.  Seems like he’s bored out of his mind.  Would he be OK in the tank?  For those who don’t know, we have 2 lg. blood parrots, 1 firemouth, black skirts, giant danios, 1 catfish and a tetra of some kind.

                                                                                                                            I just want to make sure he won’t hurt anyone or be hurt. 

                                                                                                                            Thanks.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             



                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter





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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10192 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            Shannon, By your statement of "I used the aquarium", do I understand
                                                                                                                            that you used aquarium salt instead of epsom salts? If your Gourami
                                                                                                                            definitely does have Dropsy as you suspect/describe, unfortunately that
                                                                                                                            is the worse thing you could have done. Aquarium salt will increase
                                                                                                                            the osmotic pressure. With Dropsy (a kidney ailment), you want to give
                                                                                                                            him as much of a break in getting rid of waste fluids from the kidney
                                                                                                                            as possible and the increased osmotic prssure is acting against this.
                                                                                                                            Try giving him a 50% water change (and re-do in a couple of days) and
                                                                                                                            add epsom salts. Probably 1/8 tsp per gallon should be enough. Note,
                                                                                                                            in addition to Pepso medicated food, Tetra also makes an anti-bacterial
                                                                                                                            medicated food (they used to make an anti parasitic medicated food, but
                                                                                                                            discontinued it). You might want to try any of the kanamycin
                                                                                                                            medications added to the water, after you change water and get rid of
                                                                                                                            the Mela-fix, as Kanacyn (kanamycin) is ONE of the FEW medications that
                                                                                                                            are absorbed through the skin (object being you want the medicine
                                                                                                                            inside the fish). Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                            \
                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > well crappers I guess this is the one time when you can use Epsom
                                                                                                                            salt lol
                                                                                                                            > and off course I used the aquarium.. so I think I made it worse..
                                                                                                                            well I guess
                                                                                                                            > its all learning right... thanks or the article nim.. shannon
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Shannon,
                                                                                                                            > Read this article. I think it could be very helpful.
                                                                                                                            > _http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html_
                                                                                                                            > (http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html)
                                                                                                                            > Also, raising the temperature while medicating is a good idea
                                                                                                                            especially for
                                                                                                                            > labyrinth fish as they can take oxygen from the air.
                                                                                                                            > Nim
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10193 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            I have salt in my aquarium normally well off and on and this was a on time so when I took the fish out I used water from he aquarium and hence the reason why there was salt in it... I just now put some Epsom salt in there... as he is for some odd reason looking better but could be fooled... I never would have thought about Epsom salt because is all out discussion on here about salt that never use anything but the pickling or aquarium salts so that is why I didn't even think anything of it... so anyhow ill see what happens next..
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            oh PS I am not using mela fix... im using maracyn... thanks again Shannon

                                                                                                                            Shannon,  By your statement of "I used the aquarium", do I understand
                                                                                                                            that you used aquarium salt instead of epsom salts?  If your Gourami
                                                                                                                            definitely does have Dropsy as you suspect/describe, unfortunately that
                                                                                                                            is the worse thing you could have done.  Aquarium salt will increase
                                                                                                                            the osmotic pressure.  With Dropsy (a kidney ailment), you want to give
                                                                                                                            him as much of a break in getting rid of waste fluids from the kidney
                                                                                                                            as possible and the increased osmotic prssure is acting against this. 
                                                                                                                            Try giving him a 50% water change (and re-do in a couple of days) and
                                                                                                                            add epsom salts.  Probably 1/8 tsp per gallon should be enough.  Note,
                                                                                                                            in addition to Pepso medicated food, Tetra also makes an anti-bacterial
                                                                                                                            medicated food (they used to make an anti parasitic medicated food, but
                                                                                                                            discontinued it).  You might want to try any of the kanamycin
                                                                                                                            medications added to the water, after you change water and get rid of
                                                                                                                            the Mela-fix, as Kanacyn (kanamycin) is ONE of the FEW medications that
                                                                                                                            are absorbed through the skin (object being you want the medicine
                                                                                                                            inside the fish).  Regards,  Ray   
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10194 From: Eric Miner Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Is this a good community?
                                                                                                                            Hi All,

                                                                                                                            My LFS is having a great sale - 10-50% off/Oceanic and All-Glass tanks
                                                                                                                            and stands at wholesale....my fish budget is burning a hole in my
                                                                                                                            pocket right about now ;-)

                                                                                                                            So, after taking the family to the LFS a number of times this is
                                                                                                                            what's been agreed on:

                                                                                                                            A bow tank - 46 gallons (maybe larger but I can't count on that)

                                                                                                                            Tetras, tetras, tetras (and others) - below are a few stocking
                                                                                                                            shcemes. Your comments are appreicated: How will these fish get along?
                                                                                                                            Is this too many fish? Will they clog up the mid level? I plan on a
                                                                                                                            full fishless cycle.

                                                                                                                            #1 = 42.25" of fish
                                                                                                                            Glowlight Tetra - 5
                                                                                                                            Diamond Tetra - 5
                                                                                                                            Black Neon tetra - 5
                                                                                                                            Panda Cory - 3
                                                                                                                            Harlequin -5

                                                                                                                            #2 = 47" of fish
                                                                                                                            Diamond Tetra - 6
                                                                                                                            Harlequin - 6
                                                                                                                            Dwarf/Powder Blue Gourami - 2
                                                                                                                            Panda Cory - 4
                                                                                                                            Cardinal Tetra - 6

                                                                                                                            #3 = 40.75" of fish
                                                                                                                            Diamond Tetra - 5
                                                                                                                            Harlequin - 5
                                                                                                                            Dwarf/Powder Blue Gourami - 2
                                                                                                                            Panda Cory - 4
                                                                                                                            Glowlight Tetra - 5

                                                                                                                            Thanks for your input in advance

                                                                                                                            Eric
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10195 From: wendie Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?
                                                                                                                            Give him a cave.. I have mine in small blue voltives and they love going inside and resting.
                                                                                                                            Caves are very popular.
                                                                                                                            Wendie
                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:19 PM
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Beta in Tropical Tank?

                                                                                                                            Lol

                                                                                                                            So glad I asked.  Poor guy though!  He looks SO bored!  Is there anything I can do to give him some harmless entertainment?

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            From: Nimish Mathur [mailto:nimmat4@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:15 PM
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Beta in Tropical Tank?

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Lol. I will be amazed if a Betta lasts more then 10 minutes in a tank with Black skirts+Blood Parrots+ Firemouth cichlids. Giant danios may leave him alone and if the other tetra is a saerpe or similar ferocious tetra then reduce the 10 minutes to 5.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            I think he will always prefer to be in a small tank alone rather with these companions.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                            From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: 11 April 2005 17:58
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] Beta in Tropical Tank?

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            My son has a gorgeous lonely male beta.  We have this 55 gal tropical tank & I’d like to stick him in it so he’ll have more room.  He is so excited when the lights go on & someone enters the room.  Seems like he’s bored out of his mind.  Would he be OK in the tank?  For those who don’t know, we have 2 lg. blood parrots, 1 firemouth, black skirts, giant danios, 1 catfish and a tetra of some kind.

                                                                                                                            I just want to make sure he won’t hurt anyone or be hurt. 

                                                                                                                            Thanks.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             



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                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10196 From: infomehlb Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Tidepool II wet/dry
                                                                                                                            Any advise on setting up a wet/dry so as not to cause a flood? I will
                                                                                                                            be installing ball valves on overflow and return as well as a check
                                                                                                                            valve on the overflow. What is the formula for balancing the water in
                                                                                                                            the tank and sump so I do not have a flood if I lose power?
                                                                                                                            Thanks
                                                                                                                            1st time with a wet/dry
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10197 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?
                                                                                                                            What size tank is your betta in now? We have bettas in with female
                                                                                                                            bettas, neon and gold tetras, guppies, platies, cory catfish, gourami,
                                                                                                                            angelfish, redtailed shark, danios, and ghost shrimp. The tank is
                                                                                                                            planted and has lots of hidey holes and he seems to be quite happy. If
                                                                                                                            you have a small tank, maybe just buy some playmates more his size?

                                                                                                                            > My son has a gorgeous lonely male beta. We have this 55 gal tropical
                                                                                                                            > tank & I'd like to stick him in it so he'll have more room. He is so
                                                                                                                            > excited when the lights go on & someone enters the room. Seems like
                                                                                                                            > he's bored out of his mind. Would he be OK in the tank? For those
                                                                                                                            who
                                                                                                                            > don't know, we have 2 lg. blood parrots, 1 firemouth, black skirts,
                                                                                                                            > giant danios, 1 catfish and a tetra of some kind.
                                                                                                                            > I just want to make sure he won't hurt anyone or be hurt.
                                                                                                                            > Thanks.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10198 From: racetwocrg Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                            > Shannon I have salt in my freshwater tanks and I have never had
                                                                                                                            any problems, I put 1 tablespoon to every gallon. I have found that
                                                                                                                            the fish a red belly pacu and a jack dempsey enjoy it. There is no
                                                                                                                            such thing as freshwater. all water has some salt ni it. it is
                                                                                                                            natural that we use salts to clean water,ect.
                                                                                                                            > I have salt in my aquarium normally well off and on and this was a
                                                                                                                            on time
                                                                                                                            > so when I took the fish out I used water from he aquarium and
                                                                                                                            hence the reason
                                                                                                                            > why there was salt in it... I just now put some Epsom salt in
                                                                                                                            there... as he
                                                                                                                            > is for some odd reason looking better but could be fooled... I
                                                                                                                            never would
                                                                                                                            > have thought about Epsom salt because is all out discussion on
                                                                                                                            here about salt
                                                                                                                            > that never use anything but the pickling or aquarium salts so
                                                                                                                            that is why I
                                                                                                                            > didn't even think anything of it... so anyhow ill see what
                                                                                                                            happens next..
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > oh PS I am not using mela fix... im using maracyn... thanks again
                                                                                                                            Shannon
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Shannon, By your statement of "I used the aquarium", do I
                                                                                                                            understand
                                                                                                                            > that you used aquarium salt instead of epsom salts? If your
                                                                                                                            Gourami
                                                                                                                            > definitely does have Dropsy as you suspect/describe,
                                                                                                                            unfortunately that
                                                                                                                            > is the worse thing you could have done. Aquarium salt will
                                                                                                                            increase
                                                                                                                            > the osmotic pressure. With Dropsy (a kidney ailment), you want
                                                                                                                            to give
                                                                                                                            > him as much of a break in getting rid of waste fluids from the
                                                                                                                            kidney
                                                                                                                            > as possible and the increased osmotic prssure is acting against
                                                                                                                            this.
                                                                                                                            > Try giving him a 50% water change (and re-do in a couple of days)
                                                                                                                            and
                                                                                                                            > add epsom salts. Probably 1/8 tsp per gallon should be enough.
                                                                                                                            Note,
                                                                                                                            > in addition to Pepso medicated food, Tetra also makes an anti-
                                                                                                                            bacterial
                                                                                                                            > medicated food (they used to make an anti parasitic medicated
                                                                                                                            food, but
                                                                                                                            > discontinued it). You might want to try any of the kanamycin
                                                                                                                            > medications added to the water, after you change water and get
                                                                                                                            rid of
                                                                                                                            > the Mela-fix, as Kanacyn (kanamycin) is ONE of the FEW
                                                                                                                            medications that
                                                                                                                            > are absorbed through the skin (object being you want the medicine
                                                                                                                            > inside the fish). Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10199 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again

                                                                                                                            Ray,

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Its not an argument about use of salt. Use of salt in case of dropsy can cause more problem then the benefit it causes in almost all other stress related diseases.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                            From: racetwocrg [mailto:racetwocrg@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: 11 April 2005 22:16
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again

                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                            >  Shannon I have salt in my freshwater tanks and I have never had
                                                                                                                            any problems, I put 1 tablespoon to every gallon. I have found that
                                                                                                                            the fish a red belly pacu and a jack dempsey enjoy it. There is no
                                                                                                                            such thing as freshwater. all water has some salt ni it. it is
                                                                                                                            natural that we use salts to clean water,ect.
                                                                                                                            > I have salt in my aquarium normally well off and on and this was a
                                                                                                                            on time 
                                                                                                                            > so when I took the fish out I used water from he aquarium and
                                                                                                                            hence the reason 
                                                                                                                            > why there was salt in it... I just now put some Epsom salt in
                                                                                                                            there... as he
                                                                                                                            > is  for some odd reason looking better but could be fooled... I
                                                                                                                            never would
                                                                                                                            > have  thought about Epsom salt because is all out discussion on
                                                                                                                            here about salt
                                                                                                                            > that  never use anything but the pickling or aquarium salts so
                                                                                                                            that is why I
                                                                                                                            > didn't  even think anything of it... so anyhow ill see what
                                                                                                                            happens next..

                                                                                                                            > oh PS I am not using mela fix... im using maracyn... thanks again 
                                                                                                                            Shannon
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Shannon ,  By your statement of "I used the aquarium", do I 
                                                                                                                            understand
                                                                                                                            > that you used aquarium salt instead of epsom salts?  If  your
                                                                                                                            Gourami
                                                                                                                            > definitely does have Dropsy as you suspect/describe, 
                                                                                                                            unfortunately that
                                                                                                                            > is the worse thing you could have done.  Aquarium  salt will
                                                                                                                            increase
                                                                                                                            > the osmotic pressure.  With Dropsy (a kidney  ailment), you want
                                                                                                                            to give
                                                                                                                            > him as much of a break in getting rid of waste  fluids from the
                                                                                                                            kidney
                                                                                                                            > as possible and the increased osmotic prssure is  acting against
                                                                                                                            this. 
                                                                                                                            > Try giving him a 50% water change (and re-do in  a couple of days)
                                                                                                                            and
                                                                                                                            > add epsom salts.  Probably 1/8 tsp per gallon  should be enough. 
                                                                                                                            Note,
                                                                                                                            > in addition to Pepso medicated food, Tetra  also makes an anti-
                                                                                                                            bacterial
                                                                                                                            > medicated food (they used to make an anti  parasitic medicated
                                                                                                                            food, but
                                                                                                                            > discontinued it).  You might want to  try any of the kanamycin
                                                                                                                            > medications added to the water, after you change  water and get
                                                                                                                            rid of
                                                                                                                            > the Mela-fix, as Kanacyn (kanamycin) is ONE of the  FEW
                                                                                                                            medications that
                                                                                                                            > are absorbed through the skin (object being you want  the medicine
                                                                                                                            > inside the fish).  Regards,  Ray





                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10200 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            yea this group has had this convo over and over and over again that is why I have salt too... Shannon
                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                            >  Shannon I have salt in my freshwater tanks and I have never had
                                                                                                                            any problems, I put 1 tablespoon to every gallon. I have found that
                                                                                                                            the fish a red belly pacu and a jack dempsey enjoy it. There is no
                                                                                                                            such thing as freshwater. all water has some salt ni it. it is
                                                                                                                            natural that we use salts to clean water,ect.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10201 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                            According to fishbase.org, _Piaractus brachypomus_ reaches 88 cm TL (~34.6")
                                                                                                                            with the maximum published weight being 25 kg (~55 Lbs.).

                                                                                                                            There is no listing for a _Colossoma brachypomus_, but _Colossoma
                                                                                                                            brachypomum_ appears as a synonym for _Piaractus brachypomus_.

                                                                                                                            _Colossoma macropomum_ can weigh in at 30 Kg (~66 lbs) and has a TL of 108
                                                                                                                            cm (~42.5").

                                                                                                                            Back to _Colossoma brachypomus_, since you also listed it as a silver pacu,
                                                                                                                            there is no mention of a silver pacu in fishbase.org. I did find some
                                                                                                                            references to it on the web, giving Cuvier as the author, who, just so
                                                                                                                            happens, to be the author given on several of the synonyms as well as the
                                                                                                                            author of _Piaractus brachypomus_, all in 1818. I would suspect that this is
                                                                                                                            just a misspelling of the name and it is really known as _P. brachypomus_.

                                                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                                                            You know you've found that special someone
                                                                                                                            When they say those three little words:
                                                                                                                            "drinks on me".

                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            From: Ron Hansen [mailto:yahoo1@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 10:03 AM
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.


                                                                                                                            No Paul. You are thinking of another species of Pacu.

                                                                                                                            Red Belly Pacu (Piaractus brachypomus) grow to 24" max.
                                                                                                                            http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/pacu-red.htm
                                                                                                                            http://www.jjphoto.dk/fish_archive/aquarium/piaractus_brachypomus.htm

                                                                                                                            Silver Pacu (Colossoma brachypomus) grow to 18" max.

                                                                                                                            Black Pacu (Colossoma macropomum) grow much larger (up to 60").
                                                                                                                            http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/pacu-blk.htm

                                                                                                                            Mine are piaractus brachypomus. Colossoma macropomum are not commonly sold.


                                                                                                                            paul helms said:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > you are quoted an expected size in a large
                                                                                                                            > aquarium...in the wild they get much larger than that.
                                                                                                                            > 18-24 inches is the "stunted" size
                                                                                                                            > --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >> Four feet of fish, not one four foot fish. Red
                                                                                                                            >> Belly Pacu grow to 18"-24"
                                                                                                                            >> long (their cousins the Black Pacu grow much bigger
                                                                                                                            >> than that). My tank
                                                                                                                            >> has a max width of 48" so they'll have no problems
                                                                                                                            >> moving around.
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >> Patrick, American Fish Guy said:
                                                                                                                            >> > I think 4 foot fish don't need a tank.
                                                                                                                            >> According to my 10 times the
                                                                                                                            >> > length rule, it would need a 40 foot body of
                                                                                                                            >> water, and probably 10 feet
                                                                                                                            >> > wide for it to turn around. I would say a quarter
                                                                                                                            >> acre pond would be
                                                                                                                            >> > about
                                                                                                                            >> > the right size for a 4 foot fish.
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            >> > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            >> > Dear Ron
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> > How do you prepare for an eventual 4 feet of
                                                                                                                            >> fish?. At that point I would
                                                                                                                            >> > suspect you'll be feeding the neighbors dog and
                                                                                                                            >> cats. We are talking big
                                                                                                                            >> > bucks for a tank big enough to hold just 2 fish. I
                                                                                                                            >> not saying you would
                                                                                                                            >> > but
                                                                                                                            >> > this is why fish are released into the wild and
                                                                                                                            >> why fish and plants are
                                                                                                                            >> > being banned in the U.S in alarming numbers. My
                                                                                                                            >> LFS sells aligator gars. I
                                                                                                                            >> > have caught this fish while bass fishing in
                                                                                                                            >> Florida. It was 3 feet long
                                                                                                                            >> > with
                                                                                                                            >> > nasty teeth. We all need to think about the size
                                                                                                                            >> of the fish at maturity
                                                                                                                            >> > and
                                                                                                                            >> > if you have the money for a 500 gal tank God bless
                                                                                                                            >> you.
                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                            >> > Harry
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > __________________________________
                                                                                                                            > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                            > Make Yahoo! your home page
                                                                                                                            > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                            >





                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10202 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Tidepool II wet/dry
                                                                                                                            You need to draw the water from the minimum water height you wish in the
                                                                                                                            display tank. The wet/dry should be sized so that should the pump fail, the
                                                                                                                            water will siphon down through the filter to the sump, but not overflow the
                                                                                                                            sump. The pump should also have a floating switch that will turn the pump
                                                                                                                            off, should the sump stop receiving water, so you do not burn out the pump.

                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            From: infomehlb [mailto:infomehlb@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 4:33 PM
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] Tidepool II wet/dry



                                                                                                                            Any advise on setting up a wet/dry so as not to cause a flood? I will
                                                                                                                            be installing ball valves on overflow and return as well as a check
                                                                                                                            valve on the overflow. What is the formula for balancing the water in
                                                                                                                            the tank and sump so I do not have a flood if I lose power?
                                                                                                                            Thanks
                                                                                                                            1st time with a wet/dry






                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                            the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
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                                                                                                                            in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10203 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?
                                                                                                                            can you also put in some silk plants along with the caves? bettas
                                                                                                                            often like to rest on or near them.

                                                                                                                            one of my bettas has a cave & a plant, 2 have plants & 1 has a votive
                                                                                                                            and plants. and 2 of mine also like the hang out behind their filters
                                                                                                                            (there are 2 in their tank and they each hang out a lot behind the
                                                                                                                            filters in the back.

                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, wendie <wendieo@o...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > Give him a cave.. I have mine in small blue voltives and they love
                                                                                                                            going
                                                                                                                            > inside and resting.
                                                                                                                            > Caves are very popular.
                                                                                                                            > Wendie
                                                                                                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            > From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@c...]
                                                                                                                            > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:19 PM
                                                                                                                            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Beta in Tropical Tank?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Lol
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > So glad I asked. Poor guy though! He looks SO bored! Is there
                                                                                                                            anything
                                                                                                                            > I can do to give him some harmless entertainment?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            > From: Nimish Mathur [mailto:nimmat4@y...]
                                                                                                                            > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:15 PM
                                                                                                                            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Beta in Tropical Tank?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Lol. I will be amazed if a Betta lasts more then 10 minutes in a
                                                                                                                            tank with
                                                                                                                            > Black skirts+Blood Parrots+ Firemouth cichlids. Giant danios may
                                                                                                                            leave him
                                                                                                                            > alone and if the other tetra is a saerpe or similar ferocious tetra
                                                                                                                            then
                                                                                                                            > reduce the 10 minutes to 5.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > I think he will always prefer to be in a small tank alone rather
                                                                                                                            with
                                                                                                                            > these companions.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Nim
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                            --------
                                                                                                                            > --
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@c...]
                                                                                                                            > Sent: 11 April 2005 17:58
                                                                                                                            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com;
                                                                                                                            naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            > Subject: [AquaticLife] Beta in Tropical Tank?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > My son has a gorgeous lonely male beta. We have this 55 gal
                                                                                                                            tropical tank
                                                                                                                            > & I'd like to stick him in it so he'll have more room. He is so
                                                                                                                            excited
                                                                                                                            > when the lights go on & someone enters the room. Seems like he's
                                                                                                                            bored out
                                                                                                                            > of his mind. Would he be OK in the tank? For those who don't
                                                                                                                            know, we have
                                                                                                                            > 2 lg. blood parrots, 1 firemouth, black skirts, giant danios, 1
                                                                                                                            catfish and
                                                                                                                            > a tetra of some kind.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > I just want to make sure he won't hurt anyone or be hurt.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Thanks.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                            thanks
                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                            important to
                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                            the
                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                            Thank You
                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                            thanks
                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                            important to
                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                            the
                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                            Thank You
                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                            thanks
                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
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                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
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                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                            Thank You
                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10204 From: wendie Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?
                                                                                                                            I forgot the plants.  They seem to love that stuff.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            I have a shot of four of my tanks there.
                                                                                                                            Wendie
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            From: Valeen Gonzalez [mailto:valeendgonzalez@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 5:43 PM
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?


                                                                                                                            can you also put in some silk plants along with the caves? bettas
                                                                                                                            often like to rest on or near them.

                                                                                                                            one of my bettas has a cave & a plant, 2 have plants & 1 has a votive
                                                                                                                            and plants. and 2 of mine also like the hang out behind their filters
                                                                                                                            (there are 2 in their tank and they each hang out a lot behind the
                                                                                                                            filters in the back.

                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, wendie <wendieo@o...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > Give him a cave.. I have mine in small blue voltives and they love
                                                                                                                            going
                                                                                                                            > inside and resting.
                                                                                                                            > Caves are very popular.
                                                                                                                            > Wendie
                                                                                                                            >   -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            >   From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@c...]
                                                                                                                            >   Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:19 PM
                                                                                                                            >   To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            >   Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Beta in Tropical Tank?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >   Lol
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >   So glad I asked.  Poor guy though!  He looks SO bored!  Is there
                                                                                                                            anything
                                                                                                                            > I can do to give him some harmless entertainment?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >   Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >   -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            >   From: Nimish Mathur [mailto:nimmat4@y...]
                                                                                                                            >   Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:15 PM
                                                                                                                            >   To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            >   Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Beta in Tropical Tank?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >   Lol. I will be amazed if a Betta lasts more then 10 minutes in a
                                                                                                                            tank with
                                                                                                                            > Black skirts+Blood Parrots+ Firemouth cichlids. Giant danios may
                                                                                                                            leave him
                                                                                                                            > alone and if the other tetra is a saerpe or similar ferocious tetra
                                                                                                                            then
                                                                                                                            > reduce the 10 minutes to 5.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >   I think he will always prefer to be in a small tank alone rather
                                                                                                                            with
                                                                                                                            > these companions.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >   Nim
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                            --------
                                                                                                                            > --
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >   From: Dane & Leslie Moore [mailto:amjmail@c...]
                                                                                                                            >   Sent: 11 April 2005 17:58
                                                                                                                            >   To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com;
                                                                                                                            naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            >   Subject: [AquaticLife] Beta in Tropical Tank?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >   My son has a gorgeous lonely male beta.  We have this 55 gal
                                                                                                                            tropical tank
                                                                                                                            > & I'd like to stick him in it so he'll have more room.  He is so
                                                                                                                            excited
                                                                                                                            > when the lights go on & someone enters the room.  Seems like he's
                                                                                                                            bored out
                                                                                                                            > of his mind.  Would he be OK in the tank?  For those who don't
                                                                                                                            know, we have
                                                                                                                            > 2 lg. blood parrots, 1 firemouth, black skirts, giant danios, 1
                                                                                                                            catfish and
                                                                                                                            > a tetra of some kind.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >   I just want to make sure he won't hurt anyone or be hurt.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >   Thanks.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >   Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >   Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                            thanks
                                                                                                                            >   .
                                                                                                                            >   Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                            important to
                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                            the
                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we
                                                                                                                            Thank You
                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >   Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                            thanks
                                                                                                                            >   .
                                                                                                                            >   Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                            important to
                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                            the
                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we
                                                                                                                            Thank You
                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >   Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                            thanks
                                                                                                                            >   .
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                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                            the
                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we
                                                                                                                            Thank You
                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > --------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                                                                                                            > --
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                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                            >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10205 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            Hi racetwocrg; First, it would be a nice gesture on your part to
                                                                                                                            extend the courtesy of giving us your name if you are going to post;
                                                                                                                            it is appreciated. I can't say as I recognize your having posted
                                                                                                                            before, and maybe you have, but I'd advise that before you do, that
                                                                                                                            you educate yourself on the topic that you want to talk about, rather
                                                                                                                            than give misleading information, no matter how unintentional. Yes,
                                                                                                                            many members on the Group use salt/sodium chloride (pickling salt,
                                                                                                                            Kosher salt, etc.) as a general "tonic" in the general dilution of
                                                                                                                            about 1 tbs per 5 gallons (on average). If you want to use more,
                                                                                                                            that's up to you, even though 1 tbs (3 tsp) per gallon is really
                                                                                                                            unnecessary unless you're treating for a disease. That much salt can
                                                                                                                            be harmful to Cory catfish and plants -- but again, that's up to
                                                                                                                            you.
                                                                                                                            \
                                                                                                                            DO NOTE -- that I am advising against the use of salt here to aid in
                                                                                                                            a SPECIFIC PROBLEM. As more salt is added, the OSMOTIC PRESSURE
                                                                                                                            increases making it more DIFFICULT for the fish to EXCRETE URINE from
                                                                                                                            the kidney (normally NOT a problem with a HEALTHY fish). The fish we
                                                                                                                            are talking about seems to have DROPSY. This is a DISEASE OF THE
                                                                                                                            KIDNEY. Why would you want to place an ADDED BURDEN on the KIDNEY at
                                                                                                                            THIS TIME??? PLEASE KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE ADVISING
                                                                                                                            ANYONE, although I do appreciate your attempting to do so. And yes,
                                                                                                                            we all know that most water, with the exclusion of distilled water
                                                                                                                            and most rain and snow (before contact with the ground) has picked up
                                                                                                                            some salts, which has absolutely nothing to do with this fish's
                                                                                                                            problem. Many thanks for your interest. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                            \
                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "racetwocrg" <racetwocrg@y...>
                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                            > > Shannon I have salt in my freshwater tanks and I have never had
                                                                                                                            > any problems, I put 1 tablespoon to every gallon. I have found that
                                                                                                                            > the fish a red belly pacu and a jack dempsey enjoy it. There is no
                                                                                                                            > such thing as freshwater. all water has some salt ni it. it is
                                                                                                                            > natural that we use salts to clean water,ect.
                                                                                                                            > > I have salt in my aquarium normally well off and on and this was
                                                                                                                            a
                                                                                                                            > on time
                                                                                                                            > > so when I took the fish out I used water from he aquarium and
                                                                                                                            > hence the reason
                                                                                                                            > > why there was salt in it... I just now put some Epsom salt in
                                                                                                                            > there... as he
                                                                                                                            > > is for some odd reason looking better but could be fooled... I
                                                                                                                            > never would
                                                                                                                            > > have thought about Epsom salt because is all out discussion on
                                                                                                                            > here about salt
                                                                                                                            > > that never use anything but the pickling or aquarium salts so
                                                                                                                            > that is why I
                                                                                                                            > > didn't even think anything of it... so anyhow ill see what
                                                                                                                            > happens next..
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > oh PS I am not using mela fix... im using maracyn... thanks
                                                                                                                            again
                                                                                                                            > Shannon
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > Shannon, By your statement of "I used the aquarium", do I
                                                                                                                            > understand
                                                                                                                            > > that you used aquarium salt instead of epsom salts? If your
                                                                                                                            > Gourami
                                                                                                                            > > definitely does have Dropsy as you suspect/describe,
                                                                                                                            > unfortunately that
                                                                                                                            > > is the worse thing you could have done. Aquarium salt will
                                                                                                                            > increase
                                                                                                                            > > the osmotic pressure. With Dropsy (a kidney ailment), you want
                                                                                                                            > to give
                                                                                                                            > > him as much of a break in getting rid of waste fluids from the
                                                                                                                            > kidney
                                                                                                                            > > as possible and the increased osmotic prssure is acting against
                                                                                                                            > this.
                                                                                                                            > > Try giving him a 50% water change (and re-do in a couple of
                                                                                                                            days)
                                                                                                                            > and
                                                                                                                            > > add epsom salts. Probably 1/8 tsp per gallon should be enough.
                                                                                                                            > Note,
                                                                                                                            > > in addition to Pepso medicated food, Tetra also makes an anti-
                                                                                                                            > bacterial
                                                                                                                            > > medicated food (they used to make an anti parasitic medicated
                                                                                                                            > food, but
                                                                                                                            > > discontinued it). You might want to try any of the kanamycin
                                                                                                                            > > medications added to the water, after you change water and get
                                                                                                                            > rid of
                                                                                                                            > > the Mela-fix, as Kanacyn (kanamycin) is ONE of the FEW
                                                                                                                            > medications that
                                                                                                                            > > are absorbed through the skin (object being you want the
                                                                                                                            medicine
                                                                                                                            > > inside the fish). Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10206 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                            It's kind of hard to tell, but the little one looks like this:
                                                                                                                            http://www.oregonzoo.org/Cards/Amazon/pacu.htm

                                                                                                                            which maps to Piaractus brachypomus on fishbase. I can't find one
                                                                                                                            comparable to the shape of the older one, probably because he's half
                                                                                                                            grown. He has identical markings to the smaller one. He's only about 10"
                                                                                                                            long now.

                                                                                                                            Ok, well, if they do wind up growing that large, I'll build them a
                                                                                                                            96"x36"x24" tank. That's only 2-1/2 sheets of glass.



                                                                                                                            Steve Szabo said:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > According to fishbase.org, _Piaractus brachypomus_ reaches 88 cm TL
                                                                                                                            > (~34.6")
                                                                                                                            > with the maximum published weight being 25 kg (~55 Lbs.).
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > There is no listing for a _Colossoma brachypomus_, but _Colossoma
                                                                                                                            > brachypomum_ appears as a synonym for _Piaractus brachypomus_.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > _Colossoma macropomum_ can weigh in at 30 Kg (~66 lbs) and has a TL of 108
                                                                                                                            > cm (~42.5").
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Back to _Colossoma brachypomus_, since you also listed it as a silver
                                                                                                                            > pacu,
                                                                                                                            > there is no mention of a silver pacu in fishbase.org. I did find some
                                                                                                                            > references to it on the web, giving Cuvier as the author, who, just so
                                                                                                                            > happens, to be the author given on several of the synonyms as well as the
                                                                                                                            > author of _Piaractus brachypomus_, all in 1818. I would suspect that this
                                                                                                                            > is
                                                                                                                            > just a misspelling of the name and it is really known as _P. brachypomus_.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > You know you've found that special someone
                                                                                                                            > When they say those three little words:
                                                                                                                            > "drinks on me".
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            > From: Ron Hansen [mailto:yahoo1@...]
                                                                                                                            > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 10:03 AM
                                                                                                                            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > No Paul. You are thinking of another species of Pacu.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Red Belly Pacu (Piaractus brachypomus) grow to 24" max.
                                                                                                                            > http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/pacu-red.htm
                                                                                                                            > http://www.jjphoto.dk/fish_archive/aquarium/piaractus_brachypomus.htm
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Silver Pacu (Colossoma brachypomus) grow to 18" max.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Black Pacu (Colossoma macropomum) grow much larger (up to 60").
                                                                                                                            > http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/pacu-blk.htm
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Mine are piaractus brachypomus. Colossoma macropomum are not commonly
                                                                                                                            > sold.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > paul helms said:
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >> you are quoted an expected size in a large
                                                                                                                            >> aquarium...in the wild they get much larger than that.
                                                                                                                            >> 18-24 inches is the "stunted" size
                                                                                                                            >> --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >>> Four feet of fish, not one four foot fish. Red
                                                                                                                            >>> Belly Pacu grow to 18"-24"
                                                                                                                            >>> long (their cousins the Black Pacu grow much bigger
                                                                                                                            >>> than that). My tank
                                                                                                                            >>> has a max width of 48" so they'll have no problems
                                                                                                                            >>> moving around.
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>> Patrick, American Fish Guy said:
                                                                                                                            >>> > I think 4 foot fish don't need a tank.
                                                                                                                            >>> According to my 10 times the
                                                                                                                            >>> > length rule, it would need a 40 foot body of
                                                                                                                            >>> water, and probably 10 feet
                                                                                                                            >>> > wide for it to turn around. I would say a quarter
                                                                                                                            >>> acre pond would be
                                                                                                                            >>> > about
                                                                                                                            >>> > the right size for a 4 foot fish.
                                                                                                                            >>> >
                                                                                                                            >>> > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            >>> > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            >>> > Dear Ron
                                                                                                                            >>> >
                                                                                                                            >>> > How do you prepare for an eventual 4 feet of
                                                                                                                            >>> fish?. At that point I would
                                                                                                                            >>> > suspect you'll be feeding the neighbors dog and
                                                                                                                            >>> cats. We are talking big
                                                                                                                            >>> > bucks for a tank big enough to hold just 2 fish. I
                                                                                                                            >>> not saying you would
                                                                                                                            >>> > but
                                                                                                                            >>> > this is why fish are released into the wild and
                                                                                                                            >>> why fish and plants are
                                                                                                                            >>> > being banned in the U.S in alarming numbers. My
                                                                                                                            >>> LFS sells aligator gars. I
                                                                                                                            >>> > have caught this fish while bass fishing in
                                                                                                                            >>> Florida. It was 3 feet long
                                                                                                                            >>> > with
                                                                                                                            >>> > nasty teeth. We all need to think about the size
                                                                                                                            >>> of the fish at maturity
                                                                                                                            >>> > and
                                                                                                                            >>> > if you have the money for a 500 gal tank God bless
                                                                                                                            >>> you.
                                                                                                                            >>> >
                                                                                                                            >>> > Harry
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10207 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            Nim, How're you doing buddy? By your post, I gather you are in
                                                                                                                            agreement with me, my having advised against the use of salt in the
                                                                                                                            instance, which I would have to take as just the opposite of an
                                                                                                                            arguement. I do wholeheartedly advise the use of another "salt" --
                                                                                                                            magnesium sulfate (anhydrous) or Epsom Salts, to use another name.
                                                                                                                            This is to directly affect in a positive way, the condition/disease
                                                                                                                            of Dropsy and the internal organs, in hopes it may help (which its
                                                                                                                            use is designed to do), if the disease is not too far advanced.
                                                                                                                            Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                            \
                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                            > Ray,
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Its not an argument about use of salt. Use of salt in case of
                                                                                                                            dropsy can
                                                                                                                            > cause more problem then the benefit it causes in almost all other
                                                                                                                            stress
                                                                                                                            > related diseases.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Nim
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > _____
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > From: racetwocrg [mailto:racetwocrg@y...]
                                                                                                                            > Sent: 11 April 2005 22:16
                                                                                                                            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                            > > Shannon I have salt in my freshwater tanks and I have never had
                                                                                                                            > any problems, I put 1 tablespoon to every gallon. I have found that
                                                                                                                            > the fish a red belly pacu and a jack dempsey enjoy it. There is no
                                                                                                                            > such thing as freshwater. all water has some salt ni it. it is
                                                                                                                            > natural that we use salts to clean water,ect.
                                                                                                                            > > I have salt in my aquarium normally well off and on and this was
                                                                                                                            a
                                                                                                                            > on time
                                                                                                                            > > so when I took the fish out I used water from he aquarium and
                                                                                                                            > hence the reason
                                                                                                                            > > why there was salt in it... I just now put some Epsom salt in
                                                                                                                            > there... as he
                                                                                                                            > > is for some odd reason looking better but could be fooled... I
                                                                                                                            > never would
                                                                                                                            > > have thought about Epsom salt because is all out discussion on
                                                                                                                            > here about salt
                                                                                                                            > > that never use anything but the pickling or aquarium salts so
                                                                                                                            > that is why I
                                                                                                                            > > didn't even think anything of it... so anyhow ill see what
                                                                                                                            > happens next..
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > oh PS I am not using mela fix... im using maracyn... thanks
                                                                                                                            again
                                                                                                                            > Shannon
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > Shannon, By your statement of "I used the aquarium", do I
                                                                                                                            > understand
                                                                                                                            > > that you used aquarium salt instead of epsom salts? If your
                                                                                                                            > Gourami
                                                                                                                            > > definitely does have Dropsy as you suspect/describe,
                                                                                                                            > unfortunately that
                                                                                                                            > > is the worse thing you could have done. Aquarium salt will
                                                                                                                            > increase
                                                                                                                            > > the osmotic pressure. With Dropsy (a kidney ailment), you want
                                                                                                                            > to give
                                                                                                                            > > him as much of a break in getting rid of waste fluids from the
                                                                                                                            > kidney
                                                                                                                            > > as possible and the increased osmotic prssure is acting against
                                                                                                                            > this.
                                                                                                                            > > Try giving him a 50% water change (and re-do in a couple of
                                                                                                                            days)
                                                                                                                            > and
                                                                                                                            > > add epsom salts. Probably 1/8 tsp per gallon should be enough.
                                                                                                                            > Note,
                                                                                                                            > > in addition to Pepso medicated food, Tetra also makes an anti-
                                                                                                                            > bacterial
                                                                                                                            > > medicated food (they used to make an anti parasitic medicated
                                                                                                                            > food, but
                                                                                                                            > > discontinued it). You might want to try any of the kanamycin
                                                                                                                            > > medications added to the water, after you change water and get
                                                                                                                            > rid of
                                                                                                                            > > the Mela-fix, as Kanacyn (kanamycin) is ONE of the FEW
                                                                                                                            > medications that
                                                                                                                            > > are absorbed through the skin (object being you want the
                                                                                                                            medicine
                                                                                                                            > > inside the fish). Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                            thanks
                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                            important to
                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                            the
                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                            Thank You
                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10208 From: Nan Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please
                                                                                                                            Sure, I can give you some advice on snails...I am overpowered with
                                                                                                                            them. Thank goodness Mom passed on, she left me with 50 or more of the
                                                                                                                            little buggers that I am auctioning on Aquabid...you can auction the
                                                                                                                            clusters of the snail eggs on Aquabid, you can just remove them or you
                                                                                                                            can get a Betta (they love the snail eggs) and put him in there, or a
                                                                                                                            female(female bettas are much better in community tanks) or if you want
                                                                                                                            to get rid of alllll the snails, get a couple of Dojo or Clown Loaches
                                                                                                                            (I like them the best, wonderful playful attitudes! But any Loach is
                                                                                                                            great at takeing care of snails!) and invest in a Bristlenose Pleco to
                                                                                                                            take care of the algea. After all your snails are gone, if you get the
                                                                                                                            Loaches, they will help keep the bottom of your tank clean as well as
                                                                                                                            entertain you!

                                                                                                                            Those are my suggestions. I hope it helps!

                                                                                                                            ~Nan and Crew~
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10209 From: Nan Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please./mommy2
                                                                                                                            Yes, Harry, she has that right. They are called Ramshorn Snails. They
                                                                                                                            are great at multiplying like mad and takeing over a tank quickly. I
                                                                                                                            know from experience!

                                                                                                                            ~Nan and Crew~
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10210 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            thanks ray your totally right new members often follow the first advice they see.. which I did as well and have made big mistakes for it... everyone has their own opinions but facts being facts have often been misleading... Shannon


                                                                                                                            Hi racetwocrg;  First, it would be a nice gesture on your part to
                                                                                                                            extend the courtesy of giving us your name if you are going to post;
                                                                                                                            it is appreciated.  I can't say as I recognize your having posted
                                                                                                                            before, and maybe you have, but I'd advise that before you do, that
                                                                                                                            you educate yourself on the topic that you want to talk about, rather
                                                                                                                            than give misleading information, no matter how unintentional.  Yes,
                                                                                                                            many members on the Group use salt/sodium chloride (pickling salt,
                                                                                                                            Kosher salt, etc.) as a general "tonic" in the general dilution of
                                                                                                                            about 1 tbs per 5 gallons (on average). If you want to use more,
                                                                                                                            that's up to you, even though 1 tbs (3 tsp) per gallon is really
                                                                                                                            unnecessary unless you're treating for a disease.  That much salt can
                                                                                                                            be harmful to Cory catfish and plants -- but again, that's up to
                                                                                                                            you.                                            
                                                                                                                            \                                                                    
                                                                                                                            DO NOTE -- that I am advising against the use of salt here to aid in
                                                                                                                            a SPECIFIC PROBLEM.  As more salt is added, the OSMOTIC PRESSURE
                                                                                                                            increases making it more DIFFICULT for the fish to EXCRETE URINE from
                                                                                                                            the kidney (normally NOT a problem with a HEALTHY fish).  The fish we
                                                                                                                            are talking about seems to have DROPSY.  This is a DISEASE OF THE
                                                                                                                            KIDNEY.  Why would you want to place an ADDED BURDEN on the KIDNEY at
                                                                                                                            THIS TIME???  PLEASE KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE ADVISING
                                                                                                                            ANYONE, although I do appreciate your attempting to do so.  And yes,
                                                                                                                            we all know that most water, with the exclusion of distilled water
                                                                                                                            and most rain and snow (before contact with the ground) has picked up
                                                                                                                            some salts, which has absolutely nothing to do with this fish's
                                                                                                                            problem.  Many thanks for your interest.  Regards,  Ray      
                                                                                                                            \                                                                    
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10211 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: nim and ray partners in crime lol
                                                                                                                            you guys do rock I have to say that... ill let you know what happens but I might have really messed up putting the pickling salt from the tank in with the water transfer... who knows... my killifish that has another issues of which I have no clue what it is is in there too.... along with a cory that has had a bit of fungus around its mouth for nearly 6 months... but has stayed the same.. so hopefully i asve one of them.. if the cory dies ill be really mad cuase he was pretty much fine all this time.. my only prob is i dont have a heater in the bucket.. i have it all wrapped in blankets and on the carpet to hold the temp but dont know if that is good enough... thanks shannon
                                                                                                                            Nim,  How're you doing buddy?   By your post, I gather you are in
                                                                                                                            agreement with me, my having advised against the use of salt in the
                                                                                                                            instance, which I would have to take as just the opposite of an
                                                                                                                            arguement.  I do wholeheartedly advise the use of another "salt" --
                                                                                                                            magnesium sulfate (anhydrous) or Epsom Salts, to use another name. 
                                                                                                                            This is to directly affect in a positive way, the condition/disease
                                                                                                                            of Dropsy and the internal organs, in hopes it may help (which its
                                                                                                                            use is designed to do), if the disease is not too far advanced. 
                                                                                                                            Regards,  Ray                                                       
                                                                                                                            \                       
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10212 From: Nan Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please./mommy2
                                                                                                                            "I did have danios but had to take them because they where eating my
                                                                                                                            other fishes tails. I still seem to notice every now and than a fish
                                                                                                                            with a chunk out of it's tail."

                                                                                                                            I hate to tell you this, personally, I have never heard of Danios
                                                                                                                            takeing a nibble at a tail, I suppose it is possible, however, Frogs do
                                                                                                                            eat fish, and I have been told that ALL of them aren't exactly
                                                                                                                            community tank critters. You might want to reconsider having the frog
                                                                                                                            in with the fish.

                                                                                                                            ~Nan and Crew~
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10213 From: paul helms Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?
                                                                                                                            not at all.....i would refer to thta tank as an
                                                                                                                            gressive or cichlid tank..instead of tropical. many
                                                                                                                            people associate tropical with community, just to save
                                                                                                                            on confusion.

                                                                                                                            --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...>
                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                            > My son has a gorgeous lonely male beta. We have
                                                                                                                            > this 55 gal tropical
                                                                                                                            > tank & I'd like to stick him in it so he'll have
                                                                                                                            > more room. He is so
                                                                                                                            > excited when the lights go on & someone enters the
                                                                                                                            > room. Seems like
                                                                                                                            > he's bored out of his mind. Would he be OK in the
                                                                                                                            > tank? For those who
                                                                                                                            > don't know, we have 2 lg. blood parrots, 1
                                                                                                                            > firemouth, black skirts,
                                                                                                                            > giant danios, 1 catfish and a tetra of some kind.
                                                                                                                            > I just want to make sure he won't hurt anyone or be
                                                                                                                            > hurt.
                                                                                                                            > Thanks.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >



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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10214 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            Hi Shannon, Yeah, you're right -- this group has hashed out the salt
                                                                                                                            use topic to no end. Many of us use a bit of salt, which on the
                                                                                                                            average seems to be about 1 tbs per 5 gallons for most who do use
                                                                                                                            salt. This sure can't hurt anything under normal circumstances and
                                                                                                                            ordinarily I would have nothing against it. At this time, I am
                                                                                                                            considering the condition of you Gourami and that the more salt
                                                                                                                            (whatever the quantity) in the water, the more difficult it makes it
                                                                                                                            for him to excrete urine from his diseased kidney. Salt in the water
                                                                                                                            in this case is putting more stress on the kidney. Dropsy is kidney
                                                                                                                            failure due to a bacterial or viral infection and the salt in the water
                                                                                                                            is acting as an "invisable" barrier in helping to prevent him from
                                                                                                                            excreting kidney waste easily. In his case, I would advise changing
                                                                                                                            some water, to be replaced with unsalted water to get rid of the salt
                                                                                                                            temporarily until (hopefully) he gets better, to give him a fighting
                                                                                                                            chance. Hope this makes sense; its the truth. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                            \ --
                                                                                                                            - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > yea this group has had this convo over and over and over again that
                                                                                                                            is why I
                                                                                                                            > have salt too... Shannon
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                            > > Shannon I have salt in my freshwater tanks and I have never had
                                                                                                                            > any problems, I put 1 tablespoon to every gallon. I have found that
                                                                                                                            > the fish a red belly pacu and a jack dempsey enjoy it. There is no
                                                                                                                            > such thing as freshwater. all water has some salt ni it. it is
                                                                                                                            > natural that we use salts to clean water,ect.
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10215 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            Hi again Shannon, You should have a heater in the bucket. As Nim
                                                                                                                            pointed out, you need to raise the temperature. Its all well and
                                                                                                                            good that you have the bucket wrapped in blankets and that its
                                                                                                                            sitting on a carpet to help hold the temp, but where's the heat
                                                                                                                            coming from? With no heater, it has to just be room temperature.
                                                                                                                            Maybe that's one reason the cory has fungus now for nearly 6 months;
                                                                                                                            not saying that is the reason, but a lower temperature isn't
                                                                                                                            helping. Looks like you're trying to cure too many different
                                                                                                                            diseases all in one container. Hope it works. I gather you're in a
                                                                                                                            bit of a bind for space or an extra tank. You might want to try one
                                                                                                                            of the kanamycin medications I mentioned, for the Gourami. Kanamycin
                                                                                                                            is also used as a (very good) fungus cure and you can treat the cory
                                                                                                                            at the same time. Six months is way too long for a fungus condition
                                                                                                                            to exist. What's wrong with the killiefish? Maybe we can help him
                                                                                                                            too. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                            \
                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > you guys do rock I have to say that... ill let you know what
                                                                                                                            happens but I
                                                                                                                            > might have really messed up putting the pickling salt from the tank
                                                                                                                            in with the
                                                                                                                            > water transfer... who knows... my killifish that has another
                                                                                                                            issues of which
                                                                                                                            > I have no clue what it is is in there too.... along with a cory
                                                                                                                            that has had
                                                                                                                            > a bit of fungus around its mouth for nearly 6 months... but has
                                                                                                                            stayed the
                                                                                                                            > same.. so hopefully i asve one of them.. if the cory dies ill be
                                                                                                                            really mad
                                                                                                                            > cuase he was pretty much fine all this time.. my only prob is i
                                                                                                                            dont have a
                                                                                                                            > heater in the bucket.. i have it all wrapped in blankets and on
                                                                                                                            the carpet to
                                                                                                                            > hold the temp but dont know if that is good enough... thanks
                                                                                                                            shannon
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Nim, How're you doing buddy? By your post, I gather you are in
                                                                                                                            > agreement with me, my having advised against the use of salt in
                                                                                                                            the
                                                                                                                            > instance, which I would have to take as just the opposite of an
                                                                                                                            > arguement. I do wholeheartedly advise the use of another "salt" --

                                                                                                                            > magnesium sulfate (anhydrous) or Epsom Salts, to use another
                                                                                                                            name.
                                                                                                                            > This is to directly affect in a positive way, the condition/disease
                                                                                                                            > of Dropsy and the internal organs, in hopes it may help (which its
                                                                                                                            > use is designed to do), if the disease is not too far advanced.
                                                                                                                            > Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                            > \
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10216 From: Nan Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: cleaning
                                                                                                                            William, If you use the bleach and water, I would let the tank sit
                                                                                                                            overnight with water in it, and use the dechlorinator in the tank same
                                                                                                                            as if you were setting it up for fish so that you can be on the safe
                                                                                                                            side. That is what I do with my 10 gallons when I have a spawn come
                                                                                                                            out and need to set up for a new spawn. I then set it up for a cycle
                                                                                                                            with a couple of ramshorn snails in it (when they lay eggs they
                                                                                                                            naturally let off infusoria that the fry eat...healthier water) but I
                                                                                                                            digress.....none the less, by letting it sit with the dechorinator and
                                                                                                                            regualar water in it, takes care of the bleach. Just a thought.

                                                                                                                            ~Nan and Crew~
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10217 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Is this a good community?
                                                                                                                            Eric, Nice size (and shape) tank if you get it, and nice prices. I
                                                                                                                            don't see a problem with any of the 3 schemes/groups, as far as
                                                                                                                            overcrowding. In general, many of the Tetras we've come to know
                                                                                                                            occupy a level in the tank about 1/3 of the way off the bottom. For
                                                                                                                            that reason, I'd go with #2 or #3. Just as a suggestion, why don't
                                                                                                                            you trade off the Cardinals (or the Harlequins) for an equal amount
                                                                                                                            of Feathertail Tetras, an African species which swims just slightly
                                                                                                                            higher. Although they are larger, Group #3 leaves more room for this
                                                                                                                            substitution. You might also consider some of the Rainbowfish
                                                                                                                            instead/too, as an alternate; they'll swim in the upper 2/3 of the
                                                                                                                            tank. As far as the "fishless" cycle -- Lots of luck. Hope you're
                                                                                                                            successful with it as that's a lot to gamble on. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                            \
                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Miner" <eminer1254@y...>
                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Hi All,
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > My LFS is having a great sale - 10-50% off/Oceanic and All-Glass
                                                                                                                            tanks
                                                                                                                            > and stands at wholesale....my fish budget is burning a hole in my
                                                                                                                            > pocket right about now ;-)
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > So, after taking the family to the LFS a number of times this is
                                                                                                                            > what's been agreed on:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > A bow tank - 46 gallons (maybe larger but I can't count on that)
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Tetras, tetras, tetras (and others) - below are a few stocking
                                                                                                                            > shcemes. Your comments are appreicated: How will these fish get
                                                                                                                            along?
                                                                                                                            > Is this too many fish? Will they clog up the mid level? I plan on a
                                                                                                                            > full fishless cycle.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > #1 = 42.25" of fish
                                                                                                                            > Glowlight Tetra - 5
                                                                                                                            > Diamond Tetra - 5
                                                                                                                            > Black Neon tetra - 5
                                                                                                                            > Panda Cory - 3
                                                                                                                            > Harlequin -5
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > #2 = 47" of fish
                                                                                                                            > Diamond Tetra - 6
                                                                                                                            > Harlequin - 6
                                                                                                                            > Dwarf/Powder Blue Gourami - 2
                                                                                                                            > Panda Cory - 4
                                                                                                                            > Cardinal Tetra - 6
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > #3 = 40.75" of fish
                                                                                                                            > Diamond Tetra - 5
                                                                                                                            > Harlequin - 5
                                                                                                                            > Dwarf/Powder Blue Gourami - 2
                                                                                                                            > Panda Cory - 4
                                                                                                                            > Glowlight Tetra - 5
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Thanks for your input in advance
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Eric
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10218 From: paul helms Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                            no ron i am not. i have sold a 29" red pellied pacu
                                                                                                                            myself. that is an average adult size in an aquarium.
                                                                                                                            you can quote what you have read as much as you
                                                                                                                            like....experience always supercedes it!
                                                                                                                            --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > No Paul. You are thinking of another species of
                                                                                                                            > Pacu.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Red Belly Pacu (Piaractus brachypomus) grow to 24"
                                                                                                                            > max.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/pacu-red.htm
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            http://www.jjphoto.dk/fish_archive/aquarium/piaractus_brachypomus.htm
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Silver Pacu (Colossoma brachypomus) grow to 18" max.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Black Pacu (Colossoma macropomum) grow much larger
                                                                                                                            > (up to 60").
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/pacu-blk.htm
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Mine are piaractus brachypomus. Colossoma
                                                                                                                            > macropomum are not commonly sold.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > paul helms said:
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > you are quoted an expected size in a large
                                                                                                                            > > aquarium...in the wild they get much larger than
                                                                                                                            > that.
                                                                                                                            > > 18-24 inches is the "stunted" size
                                                                                                                            > > --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > >> Four feet of fish, not one four foot fish. Red
                                                                                                                            > >> Belly Pacu grow to 18"-24"
                                                                                                                            > >> long (their cousins the Black Pacu grow much
                                                                                                                            > bigger
                                                                                                                            > >> than that). My tank
                                                                                                                            > >> has a max width of 48" so they'll have no
                                                                                                                            > problems
                                                                                                                            > >> moving around.
                                                                                                                            > >>
                                                                                                                            > >>
                                                                                                                            > >>
                                                                                                                            > >> Patrick, American Fish Guy said:
                                                                                                                            > >> > I think 4 foot fish don't need a tank.
                                                                                                                            > >> According to my 10 times the
                                                                                                                            > >> > length rule, it would need a 40 foot body of
                                                                                                                            > >> water, and probably 10 feet
                                                                                                                            > >> > wide for it to turn around. I would say a
                                                                                                                            > quarter
                                                                                                                            > >> acre pond would be
                                                                                                                            > >> > about
                                                                                                                            > >> > the right size for a 4 foot fish.
                                                                                                                            > >> >
                                                                                                                            > >> > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            > >> > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            > >> > Dear Ron
                                                                                                                            > >> >
                                                                                                                            > >> > How do you prepare for an eventual 4 feet of
                                                                                                                            > >> fish?. At that point I would
                                                                                                                            > >> > suspect you'll be feeding the neighbors dog and
                                                                                                                            > >> cats. We are talking big
                                                                                                                            > >> > bucks for a tank big enough to hold just 2
                                                                                                                            > fish. I
                                                                                                                            > >> not saying you would
                                                                                                                            > >> > but
                                                                                                                            > >> > this is why fish are released into the wild and
                                                                                                                            > >> why fish and plants are
                                                                                                                            > >> > being banned in the U.S in alarming numbers. My
                                                                                                                            > >> LFS sells aligator gars. I
                                                                                                                            > >> > have caught this fish while bass fishing in
                                                                                                                            > >> Florida. It was 3 feet long
                                                                                                                            > >> > with
                                                                                                                            > >> > nasty teeth. We all need to think about the
                                                                                                                            > size
                                                                                                                            > >> of the fish at maturity
                                                                                                                            > >> > and
                                                                                                                            > >> > if you have the money for a 500 gal tank God
                                                                                                                            > bless
                                                                                                                            > >> you.
                                                                                                                            > >> >
                                                                                                                            > >> > Harry
                                                                                                                            > >>
                                                                                                                            > >>
                                                                                                                            > >>
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                            > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                            > > Make Yahoo! your home page
                                                                                                                            > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                                            > when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            > > .
                                                                                                                            > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                            > that is not important to
                                                                                                                            > > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                                                            > original message modify the
                                                                                                                            > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                            > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                            > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >



                                                                                                                            __________________________________
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10219 From: paul helms Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: How Many Fish
                                                                                                                            LOL
                                                                                                                            --- daniel_roachus <daniel_roach@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                            > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            > > uh huh ..yeah right!
                                                                                                                            > > lmao
                                                                                                                            > > they also (wal-mart) had a label in CA that said
                                                                                                                            > red
                                                                                                                            > > bellied pacu's were peaceful community fish that
                                                                                                                            > grow
                                                                                                                            > > to 6 inches! and eat flake food!
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > well - easy mistake to make hey???
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > ;)
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > The shop I was in last week said a 10ish gallon tank
                                                                                                                            > was big enough for
                                                                                                                            > about 4 goldfish....
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >



                                                                                                                            __________________________________
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                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10220 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank? other fish?

                                                                                                                            OK so nix the tetra fish.  I can’t find him so he must have been munched.  That’s tetra #2 for that.

                                                                                                                            I’m certainly in agreement with this being an aggressive tank.  With that said, what else would be safe to put in here?  Our 75 gal is near ready and we will have some room to spare.  We’d like sharks and angels. 

                                                                                                                            What would live well in here?

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 7:08 PM
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Beta in Tropical Tank?

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            not at all.....i would refer to thta tank as an
                                                                                                                            gressive or cichlid tank..instead of tropical.  many
                                                                                                                            people associate tropical with community, just to save
                                                                                                                            on confusion.

                                                                                                                            --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...>
                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                            > My son has a gorgeous lonely male beta.  We have
                                                                                                                            > this 55 gal tropical
                                                                                                                            > tank & I'd like to stick him in it so he'll have
                                                                                                                            > more room.  He is so
                                                                                                                            > excited when the lights go on & someone enters the
                                                                                                                            > room.  Seems like
                                                                                                                            > he's bored out of his mind.  Would he be OK in the
                                                                                                                            > tank?  For those who
                                                                                                                            > don't know, we have 2 lg. blood parrots, 1
                                                                                                                            > firemouth, black skirts,
                                                                                                                            > giant danios, 1 catfish and a tetra of some kind.
                                                                                                                            > I just want to make sure he won't hurt anyone or be
                                                                                                                            > hurt. 
                                                                                                                            > Thanks.

                                                                                                                            > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!


                                                                                                                            >


                                                                                                                                       
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                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10221 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            well I have no moola to get anything so I just have to work with what I have... the Cory has been in the tank which is kept about 77° and no reason why he mouth has been like that.. he just seems fine I know I have that and the dropsy and the killi  I don't even know how to describe it.. like the top of its flat head seemed to look a bit not a lot like cabbage... or maybe it was just discoloration... not a clue... the Cory I think got the fungus cause it lost its barb thingy's. I mean in the store they are sold in the gravel I have tons of friends that have cories living in gravel why mine don't like it I have no clue it isn't sharp but rob says from the rooting in it it losts its barbs... so im just doing what I can with what I have and not missing any more water changes that is for sure Shannon


                                                                                                                            Hi again Shannon,  You should have a heater in the bucket.  As Nim
                                                                                                                            pointed out, you need to raise the temperature.  Its all well and
                                                                                                                            good that you have the bucket wrapped in blankets and that its
                                                                                                                            sitting on a carpet to help hold the temp, but where's the heat
                                                                                                                            coming from?  With no heater, it has to just be room temperature. 
                                                                                                                            Maybe that's one reason the cory has fungus now for nearly 6 months;
                                                                                                                            not saying that is the reason, but a lower temperature isn't
                                                                                                                            helping.  Looks like you're trying to cure too many different
                                                                                                                            diseases all in one container.  Hope it works.  I gather you're in a
                                                                                                                            bit of a bind for space or an extra tank.  You might want to try one
                                                                                                                            of the kanamycin medications I mentioned, for the Gourami.  Kanamycin
                                                                                                                            is also used as a (very good) fungus cure and you can treat the cory
                                                                                                                            at the same time.  Six months is way too long for a fungus condition
                                                                                                                            to exist.  What's wrong with the killiefish?  Maybe we can help him
                                                                                                                            too.  Regards,  Ray 
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10222 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            so then you think the Epsom salt isn't necessary either then... Shannon


                                                                                                                            Hi Shannon,  Yeah, you're right -- this group has hashed out the salt
                                                                                                                            use topic to no end.  Many of us use a bit of salt, which on the
                                                                                                                            average seems to be about 1 tbs per 5 gallons for most who do use
                                                                                                                            salt.  This sure can't hurt anything under normal circumstances and
                                                                                                                            ordinarily I would have nothing against it.  At this time, I am
                                                                                                                            considering  the condition of you Gourami and that the more salt
                                                                                                                            (whatever the quantity) in the water, the more difficult it makes it
                                                                                                                            for him to excrete urine from his diseased kidney.  Salt in the water
                                                                                                                            in this case is putting more stress on the kidney.  Dropsy is kidney
                                                                                                                            failure due to a bacterial or viral infection and the salt in the water
                                                                                                                            is acting as an "invisable" barrier in helping to prevent him from
                                                                                                                            excreting kidney waste easily.   In his case, I would advise changing
                                                                                                                            some water, to be replaced with unsalted water to get rid of the salt
                                                                                                                            temporarily until (hopefully) he gets better, to give him a fighting
                                                                                                                            chance.  Hope this makes sense; its the truth.  Regards,  Ray     
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10223 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Shannon

                                                                                                                            Opinions do vary!  Lol  I got so many diff. versions of how to handle my rescue tank.  Some even said be prepared to lose all the fish.  Well guess what?!  I only lost one due to bad tank conditions (poor little cat fish, they don’t like ammonia.)  I have since lost TWO due to aggressive blood parrots but I guess they were hungry.

                                                                                                                            Anyhow, keep your head up, listen to everyone and choose carefully.  Educate yourself with other sources as well and see what the most popular cure is for your situation.

                                                                                                                            Also, GET A HEATER for that guy.  Even if it’s in a bucket, he needs a heater so badly.  I’d hate to see you do all this work and miss that one thing.  You’ve gone this far, don’t miss a beat now.  (Wal Mart has some cheap ones.)

                                                                                                                            Act quickly when you see something amiss and you’re guys should do great. =)  Good for you in taking so much effort! 

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            From: agentscullyeyore@... [mailto:]
                                                                                                                            Sent
                                                                                                                            :
                                                                                                                            Monday, April 11, 2005 6:57 PM
                                                                                                                            To:
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            thanks ray your totally right new members often follow the first advice they see.. which I did as well and have made big mistakes for it... everyone has their own opinions but facts being facts have often been misleading... Shannon



                                                                                                                            Hi racetwocrg;  First, it would be a nice gesture on your part to
                                                                                                                            extend the courtesy of giving us your name if you are going to post;
                                                                                                                            it is appreciated.  I can't say as I recognize your having posted
                                                                                                                            before, and maybe you have, but I'd advise that before you do, that
                                                                                                                            you educate yourself on the topic that you want to talk about, rather
                                                                                                                            than give misleading information, no matter how unintentional.  Yes,
                                                                                                                            many members on the Group use salt/sodium chloride (pickling salt,
                                                                                                                            Kosher salt, etc.) as a general "tonic" in the general dilution of
                                                                                                                            about 1 tbs per 5 gallons (on average). If you want to use more,
                                                                                                                            that's up to you, even though 1 tbs (3 tsp) per gallon is really
                                                                                                                            unnecessary unless you're treating for a disease.  That much salt can
                                                                                                                            be harmful to Cory catfish and plants -- but again, that's up to
                                                                                                                            you.                                            
                                                                                                                            \                                                                    
                                                                                                                            DO NOTE -- that I am advising against the use of salt here to aid in
                                                                                                                            a SPECIFIC PROBLEM.  As more salt is added, the OSMOTIC PRESSURE
                                                                                                                            increases making it more DIFFICULT for the fish to EXCRETE URINE from
                                                                                                                            the kidney (normally NOT a problem with a HEALTHY fish).  The fish we
                                                                                                                            are talking about seems to have DROPSY.  This is a DISEASE OF THE
                                                                                                                            KIDNEY.  Why would you want to place an ADDED BURDEN on the KIDNEY at
                                                                                                                            THIS TIME???  PLEASE KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE ADVISING
                                                                                                                            ANYONE, although I do appreciate your attempting to do so.  And yes,
                                                                                                                            we all know that most water, with the exclusion of distilled water
                                                                                                                            and most rain and snow (before contact with the ground) has picked up
                                                                                                                            some salts, which has absolutely nothing to do with this fish's
                                                                                                                            problem.  Many thanks for your interest.  Regards,  Ray      
                                                                                                                            \                                                                    

                                                                                                                             



                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10224 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                            You need to go to the description and start counting rays and scales to
                                                                                                                            determine what you have. <G>.

                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            From: Ron Hansen [mailto:yahoo1@...]
                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 7:32 PM
                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.



                                                                                                                            It's kind of hard to tell, but the little one looks like this:
                                                                                                                            http://www.oregonzoo.org/Cards/Amazon/pacu.htm

                                                                                                                            which maps to Piaractus brachypomus on fishbase. I can't find one
                                                                                                                            comparable to the shape of the older one, probably because he's half
                                                                                                                            grown. He has identical markings to the smaller one. He's only about 10"
                                                                                                                            long now.

                                                                                                                            Ok, well, if they do wind up growing that large, I'll build them a
                                                                                                                            96"x36"x24" tank. That's only 2-1/2 sheets of glass.



                                                                                                                            Steve Szabo said:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > According to fishbase.org, _Piaractus brachypomus_ reaches 88 cm TL
                                                                                                                            > (~34.6")
                                                                                                                            > with the maximum published weight being 25 kg (~55 Lbs.).
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > There is no listing for a _Colossoma brachypomus_, but _Colossoma
                                                                                                                            > brachypomum_ appears as a synonym for _Piaractus brachypomus_.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > _Colossoma macropomum_ can weigh in at 30 Kg (~66 lbs) and has a TL of 108
                                                                                                                            > cm (~42.5").
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Back to _Colossoma brachypomus_, since you also listed it as a silver
                                                                                                                            > pacu,
                                                                                                                            > there is no mention of a silver pacu in fishbase.org. I did find some
                                                                                                                            > references to it on the web, giving Cuvier as the author, who, just so
                                                                                                                            > happens, to be the author given on several of the synonyms as well as the
                                                                                                                            > author of _Piaractus brachypomus_, all in 1818. I would suspect that this
                                                                                                                            > is
                                                                                                                            > just a misspelling of the name and it is really known as _P. brachypomus_.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > You know you've found that special someone
                                                                                                                            > When they say those three little words:
                                                                                                                            > "drinks on me".
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                            > From: Ron Hansen [mailto:yahoo1@...]
                                                                                                                            > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 10:03 AM
                                                                                                                            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                            > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > No Paul. You are thinking of another species of Pacu.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Red Belly Pacu (Piaractus brachypomus) grow to 24" max.
                                                                                                                            > http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/pacu-red.htm
                                                                                                                            > http://www.jjphoto.dk/fish_archive/aquarium/piaractus_brachypomus.htm
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Silver Pacu (Colossoma brachypomus) grow to 18" max.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Black Pacu (Colossoma macropomum) grow much larger (up to 60").
                                                                                                                            > http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/pacu-blk.htm
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Mine are piaractus brachypomus. Colossoma macropomum are not commonly
                                                                                                                            > sold.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > paul helms said:
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >> you are quoted an expected size in a large
                                                                                                                            >> aquarium...in the wild they get much larger than that.
                                                                                                                            >> 18-24 inches is the "stunted" size
                                                                                                                            >> --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >>> Four feet of fish, not one four foot fish. Red
                                                                                                                            >>> Belly Pacu grow to 18"-24"
                                                                                                                            >>> long (their cousins the Black Pacu grow much bigger
                                                                                                                            >>> than that). My tank
                                                                                                                            >>> has a max width of 48" so they'll have no problems
                                                                                                                            >>> moving around.
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>> Patrick, American Fish Guy said:
                                                                                                                            >>> > I think 4 foot fish don't need a tank.
                                                                                                                            >>> According to my 10 times the
                                                                                                                            >>> > length rule, it would need a 40 foot body of
                                                                                                                            >>> water, and probably 10 feet
                                                                                                                            >>> > wide for it to turn around. I would say a quarter
                                                                                                                            >>> acre pond would be
                                                                                                                            >>> > about
                                                                                                                            >>> > the right size for a 4 foot fish.
                                                                                                                            >>> >
                                                                                                                            >>> > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            >>> > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            >>> > Dear Ron
                                                                                                                            >>> >
                                                                                                                            >>> > How do you prepare for an eventual 4 feet of
                                                                                                                            >>> fish?. At that point I would
                                                                                                                            >>> > suspect you'll be feeding the neighbors dog and
                                                                                                                            >>> cats. We are talking big
                                                                                                                            >>> > bucks for a tank big enough to hold just 2 fish. I
                                                                                                                            >>> not saying you would
                                                                                                                            >>> > but
                                                                                                                            >>> > this is why fish are released into the wild and
                                                                                                                            >>> why fish and plants are
                                                                                                                            >>> > being banned in the U.S in alarming numbers. My
                                                                                                                            >>> LFS sells aligator gars. I
                                                                                                                            >>> > have caught this fish while bass fishing in
                                                                                                                            >>> Florida. It was 3 feet long
                                                                                                                            >>> > with
                                                                                                                            >>> > nasty teeth. We all need to think about the size
                                                                                                                            >>> of the fish at maturity
                                                                                                                            >>> > and
                                                                                                                            >>> > if you have the money for a 500 gal tank God bless
                                                                                                                            >>> you.
                                                                                                                            >>> >
                                                                                                                            >>> > Harry
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >> __________________________________
                                                                                                                            >> Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                            >> Make Yahoo! your home page
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                                                                                                                            >> .
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                                                                                                                            >> to
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                                                                                                                            >> in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >





                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                            the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                            subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                            in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10226 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please./mommy2
                                                                                                                            opps sorry about the blank message, I wanted to say I already scraped
                                                                                                                            off two egg clumps today. And the 3 I saw the other day are gone so I
                                                                                                                            assume they hatched out somewhere in the tank.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Yes, Harry, she has that right. They are called Ramshorn Snails. They
                                                                                                                            > are great at multiplying like mad and takeing over a tank quickly. I
                                                                                                                            > know from experience!
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > ~Nan and Crew~
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10227 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Algae control. Your opinions please./mommy2
                                                                                                                            He's so tiny I never thought of him eating there tails. I just always
                                                                                                                            saw the one huge danio forever chasing everyone. The frog is a very
                                                                                                                            little african dwarf frog I might have to try and put him somewhere
                                                                                                                            else. I already took out his tank mate a albino african clawed frog
                                                                                                                            because one morning he had half of my biggest danio head first in his
                                                                                                                            mouth.


                                                                                                                            > "I did have danios but had to take them because they where eating my
                                                                                                                            > other fishes tails. I still seem to notice every now and than a fish
                                                                                                                            > with a chunk out of it's tail."
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > I hate to tell you this, personally, I have never heard of Danios
                                                                                                                            > takeing a nibble at a tail, I suppose it is possible, however, Frogs do
                                                                                                                            > eat fish, and I have been told that ALL of them aren't exactly
                                                                                                                            > community tank critters. You might want to reconsider having the frog
                                                                                                                            > in with the fish.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > ~Nan and Crew~
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10228 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Shannon
                                                                                                                                I think I said be prepared to lose fish unless you have a miracle tank.  Looks like you have one. :)  Besides, we were really getting you mentally prepared for a loss so if it only happened to a couple of fish, you wouldn't feel as bad as if we told you that they would all live.  I say this now...
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            Opinions do vary!  Lol  I got so many diff. versions of how to handle my rescue tank.  Some even said be prepared to lose all the fish.  Well guess what?!  I only lost one due to bad tank conditions (poor little cat fish, they don’t like ammonia.)  I have since lost TWO due to aggressive blood parrots but I guess they were hungry.
                                                                                                                            Anyhow, keep your head up, listen to everyone and choose carefully.  Educate yourself with other sources as well and see what the most popular cure is for your situation.
                                                                                                                            Also, GET A HEATER for that guy.  Even if it’s in a bucket, he needs a heater so badly.  I’d hate to see you do all this work and miss that one thing.  You’ve gone this far, don’t miss a beat now.  (Wal Mart has some cheap ones.)
                                                                                                                            Act quickly when you see something amiss and you’re guys should do great. =)  Good for you in taking so much effort! 
                                                                                                                            Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                                            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10229 From: pam phetteplace Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Digest Number 703 Re the bored betta
                                                                                                                            Well for cheap thrills your son's  betta would probably like to look in a mirror. 
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            They think it is another male and they flare and carry on. 
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Pam

                                                                                                                            AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

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                                                                                                                            There are 25 messages in this issue.

                                                                                                                            Topics in this digest:

                                                                                                                            1. RE: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                            From: "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                            2. Re: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon
                                                                                                                            From: agentscullyeyore@...
                                                                                                                            3. Re: Betta in Tank
                                                                                                                            From: "Rachel"
                                                                                                                            4. RE: How Many Fish/To Ron and all. Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                            From: "Ron Hansen"
                                                                                                                            5. cleaning
                                                                                                                            From: "William Autry"
                                                                                                                            6. RE: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                            From: "Ron Hansen"
                                                                                                                            7. Re: cleaning
                                                                                                                            From: "Ron Hansen"
                                                                                                                            8. Re: cleaning
                                                                                                                            From: FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                            9. Picky Discus
                                                                                                                            From: "Bev"
                                                                                                                            10. Re: Picky Discus
                                                                                                                            From: FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                            11. RE: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                            From: paul helms
                                                                                                                            12. Re: RE: California Ramshorn Ban
                                                                                                                            From: paul helms
                                                                                                                            13. Re: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            From: paul helms
                                                                                                                            14. Re: How Many Fish
                                                                                                                            From: "daniel_roachus"
                                                                                                                            15. RE: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            From: "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                                            16. RE: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                            From: "Ron Hansen"
                                                                                                                            17. Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            From: "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                            18. RE: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                            From: "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                            19. Re: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            From: agentscullyeyore@...
                                                                                                                            20. Re: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            From: agentscullyeyore@...
                                                                                                                            21. RE: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                            From: "Ron Hansen"
                                                                                                                            22. Beta in Tropical Tank?
                                                                                                                            From: "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                            23. RE: Beta in Tropical Tank?
                                                                                                                            From: "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                                            24. RE: Beta in Tropical Tank?
                                                                                                                            From: "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                            25. Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?
                                                                                                                            From: Amalthea


                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                            Message: 1
                                                                                                                            Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:16:27 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
                                                                                                                            From: "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                            Subject: RE: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.

                                                                                                                            I think 4 foot fish don't need a tank. According to my 10 times the
                                                                                                                            length rule, it would need a 40 foot body of water, and probably 10 feet
                                                                                                                            wide for it to turn around. I would say a quarter acre pond would be about
                                                                                                                            the right size for a 4 foot fish.

                                                                                                                            Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            Dear Ron

                                                                                                                            How do you prepare for an eventual 4 feet of fish?. At that point I would
                                                                                                                            suspect you'll be feeding the neighbors dog and cats. We are talking big
                                                                                                                            bucks for a tank big enough to hold just 2 fish. I not saying you would but
                                                                                                                            this is why fish are released into the wild and why fish and plants are
                                                                                                                            being banned in the U.S in alarming numbers. My LFS sells aligator gars. I
                                                                                                                            have caught this fish while bass fishing in Florida. It was 3 feet long with
                                                                                                                            nasty teeth. We all need to think about the size of the fish at maturity and
                                                                                                                            if you have the money for a 500 gal tank God bless you.

                                                                                                                            Harry

                                                                                                                            [This message contained attachments]



                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                            Message: 2
                                                                                                                            Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 17:06:57 EDT
                                                                                                                            From: agentscullyeyore@...
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon


                                                                                                                            yea I got them.. I was just saying or thinking from my head.. that I
                                                                                                                            wouldn't be able to do one way not saying there wasn't or isn't other ways... rob
                                                                                                                            also posted a useful site that goes through a good amount of ideas.. right now
                                                                                                                            he is in a buck with one of my cories that has had a fungus for like 5
                                                                                                                            months figure ill try and treat both... thanks for your help.. a very sad Shannon



                                                                                                                            Shannon, Go back and read my last TWO replies (#10147 & #10148 on the
                                                                                                                            Group site). I see you did not read my last one completely or you
                                                                                                                            would have seen how else to kill him without having to resort to
                                                                                                                            smashing him. I explained club soda (carbonated water) and putting him
                                                                                                                            in a small container of water in the fridge. My previous post runs you
                                                                                                                            through exactly what medicines to use to treat him. As it is a VIRUS,
                                                                                                                            you may not be successful, but its worth a try. You should have gotten
                                                                                                                            these two replies with your email, but if not, go to the site.
                                                                                                                            Regards, Ray





                                                                                                                            [This message contained attachments]



                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                            Message: 3
                                                                                                                            Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 01:05:46 -0000
                                                                                                                            From: "Rachel"
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Betta in Tank


                                                                                                                            my friend put her betta in a tiny container, like a 4th of a gallon or
                                                                                                                            less. so when she gave him to me i put him in my 5.5 gal tank with my
                                                                                                                            tetras. he absolutely loves the space, plants, and rock. hes still so
                                                                                                                            shy when i come around, but now he has a place to hide. and he hasnt
                                                                                                                            eaten my tetras yet. :D

                                                                                                                            i got many bulbs. some are sprouting already. beauty.


                                                                                                                            Rachel








                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                            Message: 4
                                                                                                                            Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:42:38 -0400 (EDT)
                                                                                                                            From: "Ron Hansen"
                                                                                                                            Subject: RE: How Many Fish/To Ron and all. Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.

                                                                                                                            My main tank is a 220 gallon corner bow. It's sort of like a 125 gallon
                                                                                                                            that's 3-4 feet wide (it's kind of a triangle). They'll have plenty of
                                                                                                                            space. (And if not, I'll get something bigger.) I would not have gotten
                                                                                                                            one (much less two) if I wasn't prepared for their size. I would NEVER
                                                                                                                            release a fish into the wild.

                                                                                                                            Mechanical filtration is by means of a sponge prefilter for my pump,
                                                                                                                            http://www.dolphinpumps.com/73203210077.jpg (that's about 12" high)
                                                                                                                            http://www.dolphinpumps.com/pre%20filter%20core%20.jpg

                                                                                                                            and by then by means of a bank of Pentair Aquatics (Rainbow Lifegard)
                                                                                                                            filter modules.

                                                                                                                            Biological filtration is taken care of by a fluidized bed filter that is
                                                                                                                            rated for 300 gallons and a second one that is rated for 600.

                                                                                                                            Whenever I desire, I can switch in a carbon canister. I can also hook up
                                                                                                                            my Diatom filter.

                                                                                                                            It's pretty cool that I've got three tanks and all those filters running
                                                                                                                            off one single pump.





                                                                                                                            harry perry said:
                                                                                                                            > Dear Ron
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > How do you prepare for an eventual 4 feet of fish?. At that point I would
                                                                                                                            > suspect you'll be feeding the neighbors dog and cats. We are talking big
                                                                                                                            > bucks for a tank big enough to hold just 2 fish. I not saying you would
                                                                                                                            > but this is why fish are released into the wild and why fish and plants
                                                                                                                            > are being banned in the U.S in alarming numbers. My LFS sells aligator
                                                                                                                            > gars. I have caught this fish while bass fishing in Florida. It was 3 feet
                                                                                                                            > long with nasty teeth. We all need to think about the size of the fish at
                                                                                                                            > maturity and if you have the money for a 500 gal tank God bless you.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Harry
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Ron Hansen wrote:
                                                                                                                            > I know that. That's why I said that they were talking about them hitting
                                                                                                                            > six inches in the first three months. I'm fully prepared for when my guys
                                                                                                                            > are full grown. Right now, they're 5 and 10 inches long.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > paul helms said:
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >> unfortunately they are not ..."grow to six inches"
                                                                                                                            >> does not mean in six months, but is their adult size,
                                                                                                                            >> where we all know that they can and do reach 2 feet in
                                                                                                                            >> the aquarium
                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                            >> --- Ron Hansen wrote:
                                                                                                                            >>> Well, they're just talking about the first three
                                                                                                                            >>> months.
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>> Seriously though, both of my Pacu LOVE flake. They
                                                                                                                            >>> also love grapes,
                                                                                                                            >>> cherry tomatos, zuchini, peas, etc.
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>> paul helms said:
                                                                                                                            >>> >
                                                                                                                            >>> > uh huh ..yeah right!
                                                                                                                            >>> > lmao
                                                                                                                            >>> > they also (wal-mart) had a label in CA that said
                                                                                                                            >>> red
                                                                                                                            >>> > bellied pacu's were peaceful community fish that
                                                                                                                            >>> grow
                                                                                                                            >>> > to 6 inches! and eat flake food!
                                                                                                                            >>> > --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                            >>> > wrote:
                                                                                                                            >>> >> But the label at the w-mart says they grow to 10
                                                                                                                            >>> >> inches, so it must be true,
                                                                                                                            >>> >> mustn't it? :)
                                                                                                                            >>> >>
                                                                                                                            >>> >> Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            >>> >> -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            >>> >> interesting, but pat...an oscar would then need
                                                                                                                            >>> 200
                                                                                                                            >>> >> inches not 100....lol
                                                                                                                            >>> >
                                                                                                                            >>> >
                                                                                                                            >>> >
                                                                                                                            >>> > __________________________________
                                                                                                                            >>> > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                            >>> > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources
                                                                                                                            >>> site!
                                                                                                                            >>> > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                            >>> >
                                                                                                                            >>> >
                                                                                                                            >>> >
                                                                                                                            >>> > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                                            >>> when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            >>> > .
                                                                                                                            >>> > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                            >>> that is not important to
                                                                                                                            >>> > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                                                            >>> original message modify the
                                                                                                                            >>> > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                            >>> subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                            >>> > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                            >>> >
                                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                                            >>>
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                                                                                                                            >> .
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                                                                                                                            >> to
                                                                                                                            >> the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                            >> subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank
                                                                                                                            >> You
                                                                                                                            >> in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                            Message: 5
                                                                                                                            Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 02:49:42 -0000
                                                                                                                            From: "William Autry"
                                                                                                                            Subject: cleaning


                                                                                                                            I have to clean my tank I have took all the water out the glass locks
                                                                                                                            cloudy what can clean it going to make it a salt water tank





                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                            Message: 6
                                                                                                                            Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:50:12 -0400 (EDT)
                                                                                                                            From: "Ron Hansen"
                                                                                                                            Subject: RE: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.

                                                                                                                            Four feet of fish, not one four foot fish. Red Belly Pacu grow to 18"-24"
                                                                                                                            long (their cousins the Black Pacu grow much bigger than that). My tank
                                                                                                                            has a max width of 48" so they'll have no problems moving around.



                                                                                                                            Patrick, American Fish Guy said:
                                                                                                                            > I think 4 foot fish don't need a tank. According to my 10 times the
                                                                                                                            > length rule, it would need a 40 foot body of water, and probably 10 feet
                                                                                                                            > wide for it to turn around. I would say a quarter acre pond would be
                                                                                                                            > about
                                                                                                                            > the right size for a 4 foot fish.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            > Dear Ron
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > How do you prepare for an eventual 4 feet of fish?. At that point I would
                                                                                                                            > suspect you'll be feeding the neighbors dog and cats. We are talking big
                                                                                                                            > bucks for a tank big enough to hold just 2 fish. I not saying you would
                                                                                                                            > but
                                                                                                                            > this is why fish are released into the wild and why fish and plants are
                                                                                                                            > being banned in the U.S in alarming numbers. My LFS sells aligator gars. I
                                                                                                                            > have caught this fish while bass fishing in Florida. It was 3 feet long
                                                                                                                            > with
                                                                                                                            > nasty teeth. We all need to think about the size of the fish at maturity
                                                                                                                            > and
                                                                                                                            > if you have the money for a 500 gal tank God bless you.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Harry




                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                            Message: 7
                                                                                                                            Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:57:50 -0400 (EDT)
                                                                                                                            From: "Ron Hansen"
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: cleaning


                                                                                                                            Two things:

                                                                                                                            1. Vinegar and water will remove stains. Rinse it when you're done.

                                                                                                                            2. Bleach and water. After you are done, rinse it thoroughly and let it
                                                                                                                            air dry in the sun (for at least 6+ hours). DO NOT use it until it is
                                                                                                                            completely dry, and dry it in the sun (NOT indoors).





                                                                                                                            William Autry said:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > I have to clean my tank I have took all the water out the glass locks
                                                                                                                            > cloudy what can clean it going to make it a salt water tank
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >




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                                                                                                                            Message: 8
                                                                                                                            Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 23:34:21 EDT
                                                                                                                            From: FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: cleaning

                                                                                                                            no water, no fish , no gravel bare tank use a combo of bleach and water rinse
                                                                                                                            well, ..
                                                                                                                            or vinegar and water combo..

                                                                                                                            rob
                                                                                                                            Indiana


                                                                                                                            In a message dated 4/10/2005 9:50:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                                                            paulandsue1@... writes:


                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > I have to clean my tank I have took all the water out the glass locks
                                                                                                                            > cloudy what can clean it going to make it a salt water tank



                                                                                                                            [This message contained attachments]



                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                            Message: 9
                                                                                                                            Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 04:04:28 -0000
                                                                                                                            From: "Bev"
                                                                                                                            Subject: Picky Discus


                                                                                                                            Help, Please, I have 4 Discus fish and I am having trouble getting
                                                                                                                            them to eat. I have tried Frozen Brine Shrimp, fresh and frozen
                                                                                                                            beef-heart, Frozen Discus de-light, Golden Pearls, frozen and dried
                                                                                                                            blood worm and several flake type foods and the are not eating enough.
                                                                                                                            These guys seem to be wasting away. I monitor the PH and keep it
                                                                                                                            around 7 and do regular water changes . Any suggestions would be
                                                                                                                            greatly appreciated.

                                                                                                                            I suggest an Apple snail for algea problems. They do not eat healthy
                                                                                                                            live plants. And can not breed with a male and a female. They lay
                                                                                                                            their eggs above water so if you do not want babies keep your tanks
                                                                                                                            full or remove their very visable eggs and you halt reproduction. Make
                                                                                                                            sure you get Apple sanils not the other breeds which eat live plants.





                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                            Message: 10
                                                                                                                            Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:19:44 EDT
                                                                                                                            From: FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Picky Discus

                                                                                                                            How long have you had the Discuss? whats the water temperature? Ph is high
                                                                                                                            but I have seen them in higher PH and do well. They do prefer soft water and low
                                                                                                                            Ph though.

                                                                                                                            Ammonia,Nitrates? Discuss need very clean and well maintained water
                                                                                                                            conditions that is what make Discuss so hard to keep.

                                                                                                                            Do they have enough hiding places? Discuss are shy fish that like to hide.
                                                                                                                            have any kind of dither fish? other fish swimming around care free sometimes
                                                                                                                            make the discuss feel comfortable.

                                                                                                                            Since you didn't give us much info we don't really know how to answer your
                                                                                                                            question. More info would be Very nice and useful.


                                                                                                                            rob
                                                                                                                            Indiana

                                                                                                                            ( non discuss keeper)


                                                                                                                            In a message dated 4/10/2005 11:05:16 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                                                            bfulkes@... writes:


                                                                                                                            > Help, Please, I have 4 Discus fish and I am having trouble getting
                                                                                                                            > them to eat. I have tried Frozen Brine Shrimp, fresh and frozen
                                                                                                                            > beef-heart, Frozen Discus de-light, Golden Pearls, frozen and dried
                                                                                                                            > blood worm and several flake type foods and the are not eating enough.
                                                                                                                            > These guys seem to be wasting away. I monitor the PH and keep it
                                                                                                                            > around 7 and do regular water changes . Any suggestions would be
                                                                                                                            > greatly appreciated



                                                                                                                            [This message contained attachments]



                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                            Message: 11
                                                                                                                            Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 23:29:49 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                            From: paul helms
                                                                                                                            Subject: RE: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.

                                                                                                                            you are quoted an expected size in a large
                                                                                                                            aquarium...in the wild they get much larger than that.
                                                                                                                            18-24 inches is the "stunted" size
                                                                                                                            --- Ron Hansen wrote:
                                                                                                                            > Four feet of fish, not one four foot fish. Red
                                                                                                                            > Belly Pacu grow to 18"-24"
                                                                                                                            > long (their cousins the Black Pacu grow much bigger
                                                                                                                            > than that). My tank
                                                                                                                            > has a max width of 48" so they'll have no problems
                                                                                                                            > moving around.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Patrick, American Fish Guy said:
                                                                                                                            > > I think 4 foot fish don't need a tank.
                                                                                                                            > According to my 10 times the
                                                                                                                            > > length rule, it would need a 40 foot body of
                                                                                                                            > water, and probably 10 feet
                                                                                                                            > > wide for it to turn around. I would say a quarter
                                                                                                                            > acre pond would be
                                                                                                                            > > about
                                                                                                                            > > the right size for a 4 foot fish.
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                            > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                            > > Dear Ron
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > How do you prepare for an eventual 4 feet of
                                                                                                                            > fish?. At that point I would
                                                                                                                            > > suspect you'll be feeding the neighbors dog and
                                                                                                                            > cats. We are talking big
                                                                                                                            > > bucks for a tank big enough to hold just 2 fish. I
                                                                                                                            > not saying you would
                                                                                                                            > > but
                                                                                                                            > > this is why fish are released into the wild and
                                                                                                                            > why fish and plants are
                                                                                                                            > > being banned in the U.S in alarming numbers. My
                                                                                                                            > LFS sells aligator gars. I
                                                                                                                            > > have caught this fish while bass fishing in
                                                                                                                            > Florida. It was 3 feet long
                                                                                                                            > > with
                                                                                                                            > > nasty teeth. We all need to think about the size
                                                                                                                            > of the fish at maturity
                                                                                                                            > > and
                                                                                                                            > > if you have the money for a 500 gal tank God bless
                                                                                                                            > you.
                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                            > > Harry
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >



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                                                                                                                            Message: 12
                                                                                                                            Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 23:37:24 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                            From: paul helms
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: RE: California Ramshorn Ban

                                                                                                                            what does that have to do with them being sold in
                                                                                                                            westminster ca? illegal is illegal. i take mine into
                                                                                                                            work all the time to keep large tanks clean....i just
                                                                                                                            won't sell them. if one happens to jump into a bag
                                                                                                                            with a fish for some one that i know...who will not
                                                                                                                            release into teh wild...oh well
                                                                                                                            --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                            > A lot of the snails probally come in on aquatic
                                                                                                                            > plants from states where they
                                                                                                                            > are not illegal or the snails where established
                                                                                                                            > before the ban and the store
                                                                                                                            > just can't get rid of them ( probally the case).
                                                                                                                            > Just because something becomes illegal doesn't mean
                                                                                                                            > those that are already

                                                                                                                            === message truncated ===


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                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10230 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/11/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Shannon
                                                                                                                            thanks so much for the kind words... I am just so freaking broke its unbelievable... I so know I need a heater... grr frustration.. Shannon

                                                                                                                            Opinions do vary!  Lol  I got so many diff. versions of how to handle my rescue tank.  Some even said be prepared to lose all the fish.  Well guess what?!  I only lost one due to bad tank conditions (poor little cat fish, they don’t like ammonia.)  I have since lost TWO due to aggressive blood parrots but I guess they were hungry.

                                                                                                                            Anyhow, keep your head up, listen to everyone and choose carefully.  Educate yourself with other sources as well and see what the most popular cure is for your situation.

                                                                                                                            Also, GET A HEATER for that guy.  Even if it’s in a bucket, he needs a heater so badly.  I’d hate to see you do all this work and miss that one thing.  You’ve gone this far, don’t miss a beat now.  (Wal Mart has some cheap ones.)

                                                                                                                            Act quickly when you see something amiss and you’re guys should do great. =)  Good for you in taking so much effort! 

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10231 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: seroius help needed/To Shannon/again
                                                                                                                            Shannon, This thread in which I mention that the Gourmai is better
                                                                                                                            off not having salt in the water refers to Pickling or Kosher or
                                                                                                                            aquarium salt (all sodium chloride), to which I go on to say that
                                                                                                                            most of us use 1 tbs per 5 gallons at all times, which I'm sure you
                                                                                                                            normally do. I did not mention Epsom salts here (which is not sodium
                                                                                                                            chloride). By all means, you SHOULD be using Epsom salts at the rate
                                                                                                                            of 1/8 tsp per gallon to help treat the Dropsy. Please don't confuse
                                                                                                                            aquarium salt with Epsom salts, which your Gourami needs at this
                                                                                                                            time. Ray
                                                                                                                            \
                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > so then you think the Epsom salt isn't necessary either then...
                                                                                                                            Shannon
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Hi Shannon, Yeah, you're right -- this group has hashed out the
                                                                                                                            salt
                                                                                                                            > use topic to no end. Many of us use a bit of salt, which on the
                                                                                                                            > average seems to be about 1 tbs per 5 gallons for most who do use
                                                                                                                            > salt. This sure can't hurt anything under normal circumstances
                                                                                                                            and
                                                                                                                            > ordinarily I would have nothing against it. At this time, I am
                                                                                                                            > considering the condition of you Gourami and that the more salt
                                                                                                                            > (whatever the quantity) in the water, the more difficult it makes
                                                                                                                            it
                                                                                                                            > for him to excrete urine from his diseased kidney. Salt in the
                                                                                                                            water
                                                                                                                            > in this case is putting more stress on the kidney. Dropsy is
                                                                                                                            kidney
                                                                                                                            > failure due to a bacterial or viral infection and the salt in the
                                                                                                                            water
                                                                                                                            > is acting as an "invisable" barrier in helping to prevent him from
                                                                                                                            > excreting kidney waste easily. In his case, I would advise
                                                                                                                            changing
                                                                                                                            > some water, to be replaced with unsalted water to get rid of the
                                                                                                                            salt
                                                                                                                            > temporarily until (hopefully) he gets better, to give him a
                                                                                                                            fighting
                                                                                                                            > chance. Hope this makes sense; its the truth. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10232 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Shannon
                                                                                                                            I think most of us realize your a bit short of funds at the moment,
                                                                                                                            which is what I meant when I said you're probably in a bind for
                                                                                                                            another tank. If another heater is impossible at this time, try
                                                                                                                            putting the bucket higher off the floor if its at all possible, like
                                                                                                                            on a shelf (or temporarily firmly supported on one corner of your
                                                                                                                            tank, with a board under it to distribute the weight). In most
                                                                                                                            cases, there can be a difference of at least 4 degrees or more (maybe
                                                                                                                            up to 6 if its real high) from the floor to any considerable
                                                                                                                            heighth. If resting on the aquarium (if its not too heavy), you can
                                                                                                                            pick up a little heat also. Even a chair, or something higher (?)
                                                                                                                            will gain you a couple of degrees, rather than letting it sit on the
                                                                                                                            floor where its always cooler. Ray
                                                                                                                            \
                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > thanks so much for the kind words... I am just so freaking broke
                                                                                                                            its
                                                                                                                            > unbelievable... I so know I need a heater... grr frustration..
                                                                                                                            Shannon
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Opinions do vary! Lol I got so many diff. versions of how to
                                                                                                                            handle my
                                                                                                                            > rescue tank. Some even said be prepared to lose all the fish.
                                                                                                                            Well guess
                                                                                                                            > what?! I only lost one due to bad tank conditions (poor little
                                                                                                                            cat fish, they don
                                                                                                                            > ’t like ammonia.) I have since lost TWO due to aggressive blood
                                                                                                                            parrots but
                                                                                                                            > I guess they were hungry.
                                                                                                                            > Anyhow, keep your head up, listen to everyone and choose
                                                                                                                            carefully. Educate
                                                                                                                            > yourself with other sources as well and see what the most popular
                                                                                                                            cure is
                                                                                                                            > for your situation.
                                                                                                                            > Also, GET A HEATER for that guy. Even if it’s in a bucket, he
                                                                                                                            needs a
                                                                                                                            > heater so badly. I’d hate to see you do all this work and miss
                                                                                                                            that one thing.
                                                                                                                            > You’ve gone this far, don’t miss a beat now. (Wal Mart has
                                                                                                                            some cheap
                                                                                                                            > ones.)
                                                                                                                            > Act quickly when you see something amiss and you’re guys should
                                                                                                                            do great.
                                                                                                                            > =) Good for you in taking so much effort!
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10233 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Shannon
                                                                                                                            thanks great point... I just did a finger test from one tank to the bucket and oddly seems the same.. but I could just be hopeful .. I have two things that I am going to try and take back tom at the store to get enough credit to get a heater.. I know pathetic.. but I swear teachers don't make enough... thanks again for the tips that is something I can do right now since I cant sleep.. Shannon

                                                                                                                            I think most of us realize your a bit short of funds at the moment,
                                                                                                                            which is what I meant when I said you're probably in a bind for
                                                                                                                            another tank.  If another heater is impossible at this time, try
                                                                                                                            putting the bucket higher off the floor if its at all possible, like
                                                                                                                            on a shelf (or temporarily firmly supported on one corner of your
                                                                                                                            tank, with a board under it to distribute the weight).  In most
                                                                                                                            cases, there can be a difference of at least 4 degrees or more (maybe
                                                                                                                            up to 6 if its real high) from the floor to any considerable
                                                                                                                            heighth.  If resting on the aquarium (if its not too heavy), you can
                                                                                                                            pick up a little heat also.  Even a chair, or something higher (?)
                                                                                                                            will gain you a couple of degrees, rather than letting it sit on the
                                                                                                                            floor where its always cooler.  Ray     
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10234 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Shannon
                                                                                                                            While you could use a heater (and a small hospital tank) for sick
                                                                                                                            fish, I would not rush out and get a heater if cash is tough right
                                                                                                                            now, unless you think you'd really feel bad if he died and you didn't
                                                                                                                            do this. The prognosis is not good for a fish with Dropsy. Most
                                                                                                                            fish with that condition do not make it with the best of care, and
                                                                                                                            the odds are not good that yours will, although we're all hoping he
                                                                                                                            pulls through. I would just hate to see you spend the money right
                                                                                                                            now when you can least afford it, only to have him die anyway. But
                                                                                                                            I'll leave the final decision up to you. In any case, you ought to
                                                                                                                            think about getting another heater as soon as its convenient. Ray
                                                                                                                            \
                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > thanks great point... I just did a finger test from one tank to the
                                                                                                                            bucket
                                                                                                                            > and oddly seems the same.. but I could just be hopeful .. I have
                                                                                                                            two things
                                                                                                                            > that I am going to try and take back tom at the store to get
                                                                                                                            enough credit to
                                                                                                                            > get a heater.. I know pathetic.. but I swear teachers don't make
                                                                                                                            enough...
                                                                                                                            > thanks again for the tips that is something I can do right now
                                                                                                                            since I cant
                                                                                                                            > sleep.. Shannon
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > I think most of us realize your a bit short of funds at the
                                                                                                                            moment,
                                                                                                                            > which is what I meant when I said you're probably in a bind for
                                                                                                                            > another tank. If another heater is impossible at this time, try
                                                                                                                            > putting the bucket higher off the floor if its at all possible,
                                                                                                                            like
                                                                                                                            > on a shelf (or temporarily firmly supported on one corner of your
                                                                                                                            > tank, with a board under it to distribute the weight). In most
                                                                                                                            > cases, there can be a difference of at least 4 degrees or more
                                                                                                                            (maybe
                                                                                                                            > up to 6 if its real high) from the floor to any considerable
                                                                                                                            > heighth. If resting on the aquarium (if its not too heavy), you
                                                                                                                            can
                                                                                                                            > pick up a little heat also. Even a chair, or something higher (?)
                                                                                                                            > will gain you a couple of degrees, rather than letting it sit on
                                                                                                                            the
                                                                                                                            > floor where its always cooler. Ray
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10235 From: TankGurl Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Shannon
                                                                                                                            > Also, GET A HEATER for that guy. Even if it's in a bucket, he needs a
                                                                                                                            > heater so badly. I'd hate to see you do all this work and miss that one
                                                                                                                            > thing. You've gone this far, don't miss a beat now. (Wal Mart has some
                                                                                                                            > cheap ones.)

                                                                                                                            I'd be cautious about buying a cheap heater. You get what you pay for
                                                                                                                            and many, many folks have lost tanks due to 'cooking' via a cheap
                                                                                                                            heater. Spend the $$ and get a good one.

                                                                                                                            Kelly
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10236 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Tidepool II wet/dry
                                                                                                                            NO! NO! NO! No ball valves or check valves.

                                                                                                                            With the pump off, your overflow will stop when the water level reaches
                                                                                                                            the lowest point. At that stage, the tidepool (or sump) should be full.
                                                                                                                            When you start your pump, it will pump some of that water back up to the
                                                                                                                            tank, which will start the overflow going. If the power should cut off,
                                                                                                                            the tank will drain down to the overflow again and stop.

                                                                                                                            Make sure that your returns have siphon breaks that are above the
                                                                                                                            waterline in the tank (the "pump-off" waterline), so that they do not
                                                                                                                            drain the tank.

                                                                                                                            So, to sum it up:

                                                                                                                            Step 1: attach tidepool (pump off)
                                                                                                                            Step 2: add water to tank until tidepool is full
                                                                                                                            Step 3: start pump


                                                                                                                            infomehlb said:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Any advise on setting up a wet/dry so as not to cause a flood? I will
                                                                                                                            > be installing ball valves on overflow and return as well as a check
                                                                                                                            > valve on the overflow. What is the formula for balancing the water in
                                                                                                                            > the tank and sump so I do not have a flood if I lose power?
                                                                                                                            > Thanks
                                                                                                                            > 1st time with a wet/dry
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10237 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                            Subject: Fwd: serious help needed
                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                              Thought I would forward these messages (of 4/10) originally meant for the Group,  mistakenly sent by, and received, by way of a different (and much less frequently used) email address which has no Group connection.  Sorry about the delay/foul-up.  Ray
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10238 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Fwd: serious help needed
                                                                                                                              Sorry about not getting back to you on this one Shannon, but I goofed-
                                                                                                                              up and didn't realize I sent you this answer (to which you replied)
                                                                                                                              on another of my email addresses which does not have a connection to
                                                                                                                              our Group site, and I didn't discover it until just now. I was
                                                                                                                              wondering what happened to it!. Now to get to your questions and
                                                                                                                              concerns in your message here, no, .25 is not too bad for your
                                                                                                                              nitrate reading, especially as it was only for a short time, and
                                                                                                                              should not have been the cause of the Gourami getting sick as I first
                                                                                                                              suggested. Sounds like you're doing a good job cleaning up after the
                                                                                                                              snails. If by "filterS", you mean that you have more than one in the
                                                                                                                              tank, you might want to consider switching out one filter at a time
                                                                                                                              and do the second one several days later. By putting him in a bowl,
                                                                                                                              if you mean a clear glass fish bowl that isn't too small, that would
                                                                                                                              be fine, especially with a bit of floating plants to make him
                                                                                                                              feel "more at home". Just a regular bowl (mixing bowl) from the
                                                                                                                              kitchen may make him more stressed, though. The large fish bowl, if
                                                                                                                              that's what you have, might even be better than the bucket you've put
                                                                                                                              him in. Good to see you have an extra air pump -- they do come in
                                                                                                                              handy. Keep us posted as to how he's doing and feel free to ask any
                                                                                                                              other questions. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@w... wrote:
                                                                                                                              > Thought I would forward these messages (of 4/10) originally meant
                                                                                                                              for the
                                                                                                                              > Group, mistakenly sent by, and received, by way of a different
                                                                                                                              (and much less
                                                                                                                              > frequently used) email address which has no Group connection.
                                                                                                                              Sorry about the
                                                                                                                              > delay/foul-up. Ray
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > yea it is the same tank but the nitrates never got above .25...
                                                                                                                              that isn't
                                                                                                                              > to bad right and was only that way for a bit... gosh I have done so
                                                                                                                              well I cant
                                                                                                                              > believe just switching out the filters was the cause... I have
                                                                                                                              been doing 2
                                                                                                                              > water changes a week to clean up after the snails... .. well the
                                                                                                                              prob for me
                                                                                                                              > is that I don't have any where to put the fish... no hospital tank
                                                                                                                              or
                                                                                                                              > anything.. if I put him in a bowl wouldn't that be more stressful
                                                                                                                              for him... I
                                                                                                                              > hadn't thought the red was from that... makes sense though... what
                                                                                                                              do you think
                                                                                                                              > about putting him in a bowl.. I have an extra air pump I could
                                                                                                                              use... but that
                                                                                                                              > is about it... thanks for your help.. Shannon
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Shannon, Sorry to hear about your Dwarf Gourami. This certainly
                                                                                                                              > sounds like Dropsy, which for all intents and purposes is caused
                                                                                                                              by an
                                                                                                                              > internal VIRUS and is usually fatal. I would recommend
                                                                                                                              isolatating him
                                                                                                                              > and if you want, try treating him even though it may be too late,
                                                                                                                              > especially with the red areas (beginnings of hemorhaging) under
                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                              > scales. Occasional cures are obtained with the use of kanamycin
                                                                                                                              > (Seachem's Kanaplex or Aquatronic's Kanacyn) along with epsom
                                                                                                                              salts
                                                                                                                              > (1/4 tsp per gallon). If he eats, feed him Pepso (a medicated
                                                                                                                              food
                                                                                                                              > made by Jungle Laboratories). I doubt very much that this
                                                                                                                              condition
                                                                                                                              > came from your adding calcium for the snails. However, is this
                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                              > same tank that you were having nitrate problems with last week as
                                                                                                                              a
                                                                                                                              > result of feeding the snails almost a half a head of lettuce a
                                                                                                                              week?
                                                                                                                              > If so, that stress may have brought this condition on. Regards,
                                                                                                                              Ray
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10239 From: paul helms Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Tidepool II wet/dry
                                                                                                                              there is nothing wrong with using check valves on the
                                                                                                                              return lines, in fact it is very intelligent. by usig
                                                                                                                              them you can adjust your current anywhere that you
                                                                                                                              want without worrying about overflowing your tank
                                                                                                                              during a power outage. no drillling in the lines
                                                                                                                              required that way. by all means, go ahaead and use the
                                                                                                                              check valves. also, take a permanent marker and draw
                                                                                                                              a fill line on the sump do that you know when the
                                                                                                                              level is low, before it starts blowing air bubbles in
                                                                                                                              the tank. the method for filling the sump to check
                                                                                                                              overflow capacity is great, but after you do that and
                                                                                                                              turn on the pump, mark its maximum fill line, then
                                                                                                                              when you do a small water change, mark your minimum
                                                                                                                              fill line, by marking just above where the water level
                                                                                                                              drops so low that the pump starts blowing a bit of air
                                                                                                                              into the tank.this makes it easy to know when you need
                                                                                                                              to add water, or when you have added too much.
                                                                                                                              paul
                                                                                                                              --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                              > NO! NO! NO! No ball valves or check valves.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > With the pump off, your overflow will stop when the
                                                                                                                              > water level reaches
                                                                                                                              > the lowest point. At that stage, the tidepool (or
                                                                                                                              > sump) should be full.
                                                                                                                              > When you start your pump, it will pump some of that
                                                                                                                              > water back up to the
                                                                                                                              > tank, which will start the overflow going. If the
                                                                                                                              > power should cut off,
                                                                                                                              > the tank will drain down to the overflow again and
                                                                                                                              > stop.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Make sure that your returns have siphon breaks that
                                                                                                                              > are above the
                                                                                                                              > waterline in the tank (the "pump-off" waterline), so
                                                                                                                              > that they do not
                                                                                                                              > drain the tank.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > So, to sum it up:
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Step 1: attach tidepool (pump off)
                                                                                                                              > Step 2: add water to tank until tidepool is full
                                                                                                                              > Step 3: start pump
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > infomehlb said:
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > > Any advise on setting up a wet/dry so as not to
                                                                                                                              > cause a flood? I will
                                                                                                                              > > be installing ball valves on overflow and return
                                                                                                                              > as well as a check
                                                                                                                              > > valve on the overflow. What is the formula for
                                                                                                                              > balancing the water in
                                                                                                                              > > the tank and sump so I do not have a flood if I
                                                                                                                              > lose power?
                                                                                                                              > > Thanks
                                                                                                                              > > 1st time with a wet/dry
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                                              > when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                              > > .
                                                                                                                              > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                              > that is not important to
                                                                                                                              > > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                                                              > original message modify the
                                                                                                                              > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                              > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                              > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >



                                                                                                                              __________________________________
                                                                                                                              Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                              Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
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                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10240 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                              paul helms said:
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > no ron i am not. i have sold a 29" red pellied pacu
                                                                                                                              > myself. that is an average adult size in an aquarium.
                                                                                                                              > you can quote what you have read as much as you
                                                                                                                              > like....experience always supercedes it!

                                                                                                                              Question: How did you get him out of the tank? I mean, what size net did
                                                                                                                              you use?
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10241 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                              Steve Szabo said:
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > You need to go to the description and start counting rays and scales to
                                                                                                                              > determine what you have. <G>.

                                                                                                                              Oh, that sounds like fun. Either wrestle a 10" fish out of the tank, or
                                                                                                                              try to count as he's moving in the tank. Maybe I could take a picture and
                                                                                                                              go from that...

                                                                                                                              Or, I can just wait until they grow and take appropriate action then.
                                                                                                                              (Much better choice.)
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10242 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                              Subject: Windfall
                                                                                                                              Well, a friend of my DH who is an enthusiastic aquarium keeper is
                                                                                                                              getting rid of all of his fish and tanks. (Wife has said if she can't
                                                                                                                              have her yorkies he can't have his fish) My DH and I are getting a
                                                                                                                              nice 55 gallon tank setup with all the equipment intact, so we will
                                                                                                                              finally have a place to put those large fish in my daughters tanks!
                                                                                                                              Whew! He's including a powder blue dwarf gourami, and offered to let us
                                                                                                                              take his dragon fish...but he warned us that the dragonfish is
                                                                                                                              extremely aggressive, so we declined. The blue gourami is going into
                                                                                                                              my daughters tanks till the new one is cycled and planted. Then we'll
                                                                                                                              move both the gouramis, the bala shark, the angelfish, and probably the
                                                                                                                              two mollies into the new tank, since they are pretty big for those
                                                                                                                              little 20 gallon tanks. WooHoo!
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10243 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Tidepool II wet/dry
                                                                                                                              I have never known a check valve to not get stuck open eventually due to
                                                                                                                              algae, salt, debris, etc. Go over to reefcentral.com and you'll find
                                                                                                                              dozens of people who've had disasters from stuck check valves. If you
                                                                                                                              drill your siphon breaks so that they are submerged when the pump is on,
                                                                                                                              but exposed at the low water mark, you've got the best of both worlds.

                                                                                                                              I don't need siphon breaks, because my returns are near the top of the
                                                                                                                              tank and my sump is sized to handle about 30 gallons of extra drain-off,
                                                                                                                              but a tidepool is fairly small.

                                                                                                                              Yes, I agree with the top-up marks. Once the tidepool is filled for the
                                                                                                                              first time and then the pump is started, mark the water level in the
                                                                                                                              tidepool. This is the fill-to mark for water makeup.


                                                                                                                              paul helms said:
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > there is nothing wrong with using check valves on the
                                                                                                                              > return lines, in fact it is very intelligent. by usig
                                                                                                                              > them you can adjust your current anywhere that you
                                                                                                                              > want without worrying about overflowing your tank
                                                                                                                              > during a power outage. no drillling in the lines
                                                                                                                              > required that way. by all means, go ahaead and use the
                                                                                                                              > check valves. also, take a permanent marker and draw
                                                                                                                              > a fill line on the sump do that you know when the
                                                                                                                              > level is low, before it starts blowing air bubbles in
                                                                                                                              > the tank. the method for filling the sump to check
                                                                                                                              > overflow capacity is great, but after you do that and
                                                                                                                              > turn on the pump, mark its maximum fill line, then
                                                                                                                              > when you do a small water change, mark your minimum
                                                                                                                              > fill line, by marking just above where the water level
                                                                                                                              > drops so low that the pump starts blowing a bit of air
                                                                                                                              > into the tank.this makes it easy to know when you need
                                                                                                                              > to add water, or when you have added too much.
                                                                                                                              > paul
                                                                                                                              > --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                              >> NO! NO! NO! No ball valves or check valves.
                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                              >> With the pump off, your overflow will stop when the
                                                                                                                              >> water level reaches
                                                                                                                              >> the lowest point. At that stage, the tidepool (or
                                                                                                                              >> sump) should be full.
                                                                                                                              >> When you start your pump, it will pump some of that
                                                                                                                              >> water back up to the
                                                                                                                              >> tank, which will start the overflow going. If the
                                                                                                                              >> power should cut off,
                                                                                                                              >> the tank will drain down to the overflow again and
                                                                                                                              >> stop.
                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                              >> Make sure that your returns have siphon breaks that
                                                                                                                              >> are above the
                                                                                                                              >> waterline in the tank (the "pump-off" waterline), so
                                                                                                                              >> that they do not
                                                                                                                              >> drain the tank.
                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                              >> So, to sum it up:
                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                              >> Step 1: attach tidepool (pump off)
                                                                                                                              >> Step 2: add water to tank until tidepool is full
                                                                                                                              >> Step 3: start pump
                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                              >> infomehlb said:
                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                              >> > Any advise on setting up a wet/dry so as not to
                                                                                                                              >> cause a flood? I will
                                                                                                                              >> > be installing ball valves on overflow and return
                                                                                                                              >> as well as a check
                                                                                                                              >> > valve on the overflow. What is the formula for
                                                                                                                              >> balancing the water in
                                                                                                                              >> > the tank and sump so I do not have a flood if I
                                                                                                                              >> lose power?
                                                                                                                              >> > Thanks
                                                                                                                              >> > 1st time with a wet/dry
                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                              >> > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                                              >> when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                              >> > .
                                                                                                                              >> > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                              >> that is not important to
                                                                                                                              >> > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                                                              >> original message modify the
                                                                                                                              >> > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                              >> subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                              >> > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                              >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > __________________________________
                                                                                                                              > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                                                              > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                              > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                              > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                              > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10244 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Windfall
                                                                                                                              If you take the water with the tank, you won't need to cycle it. Keep the
                                                                                                                              gravel and the filter media wet during the move and when you restart the
                                                                                                                              tank, the most you'll have is a mini-cycle. The only bacteria loss you'll
                                                                                                                              have is the bacteria on the tank walls.


                                                                                                                              cynthia brennemann said:
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Well, a friend of my DH who is an enthusiastic aquarium keeper is
                                                                                                                              > getting rid of all of his fish and tanks. (Wife has said if she can't
                                                                                                                              > have her yorkies he can't have his fish) My DH and I are getting a
                                                                                                                              > nice 55 gallon tank setup with all the equipment intact, so we will
                                                                                                                              > finally have a place to put those large fish in my daughters tanks!
                                                                                                                              > Whew! He's including a powder blue dwarf gourami, and offered to let us
                                                                                                                              > take his dragon fish...but he warned us that the dragonfish is
                                                                                                                              > extremely aggressive, so we declined. The blue gourami is going into
                                                                                                                              > my daughters tanks till the new one is cycled and planted. Then we'll
                                                                                                                              > move both the gouramis, the bala shark, the angelfish, and probably the
                                                                                                                              > two mollies into the new tank, since they are pretty big for those
                                                                                                                              > little 20 gallon tanks. WooHoo!
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                              > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                              > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                              > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10245 From: Trevor Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Windfall
                                                                                                                              You really don't even need to keep the same water. Just use the gravel
                                                                                                                              and filter media as Ron suggested.

                                                                                                                              - Trevor

                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Hansen" <yahoo1@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                              > If you take the water with the tank, you won't need to cycle it.
                                                                                                                              Keep the
                                                                                                                              > gravel and the filter media wet during the move and when you restart the
                                                                                                                              > tank, the most you'll have is a mini-cycle. The only bacteria loss
                                                                                                                              you'll
                                                                                                                              > have is the bacteria on the tank walls.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > cynthia brennemann said:
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > > Well, a friend of my DH who is an enthusiastic aquarium keeper is
                                                                                                                              > > getting rid of all of his fish and tanks. (Wife has said if she can't
                                                                                                                              > > have her yorkies he can't have his fish) My DH and I are getting a
                                                                                                                              > > nice 55 gallon tank setup with all the equipment intact, so we will
                                                                                                                              > > finally have a place to put those large fish in my daughters tanks!
                                                                                                                              > > Whew! He's including a powder blue dwarf gourami, and offered to
                                                                                                                              let us
                                                                                                                              > > take his dragon fish...but he warned us that the dragonfish is
                                                                                                                              > > extremely aggressive, so we declined. The blue gourami is going into
                                                                                                                              > > my daughters tanks till the new one is cycled and planted. Then we'll
                                                                                                                              > > move both the gouramis, the bala shark, the angelfish, and
                                                                                                                              probably the
                                                                                                                              > > two mollies into the new tank, since they are pretty big for those
                                                                                                                              > > little 20 gallon tanks. WooHoo!
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                              > > .
                                                                                                                              > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                              important to
                                                                                                                              > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                              > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                              Thank You
                                                                                                                              > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10246 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Windfall
                                                                                                                              I'm hoping we can do it that way. If timing works out right, that's
                                                                                                                              how we'll do it, but we can't get it for another couple of weeks, and
                                                                                                                              if his wife gets really insistant, he may break it down prematurely. I
                                                                                                                              figure if he does that, we'll use some water from our two existing
                                                                                                                              tanks to get it going.

                                                                                                                              > If you take the water with the tank, you won't need to cycle it.
                                                                                                                              Keep the
                                                                                                                              > gravel and the filter media wet during the move and when you restart
                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                              > tank, the most you'll have is a mini-cycle. The only bacteria loss
                                                                                                                              you'll
                                                                                                                              > have is the bacteria on the tank walls.
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10247 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Windfall
                                                                                                                              Hmmm...in the event that his wife DOES make him break it down
                                                                                                                              prematurely and we don't have that...can I just take the used filter
                                                                                                                              media from our existing tanks and put it in the new tank when we cycle
                                                                                                                              it?

                                                                                                                              > You really don't even need to keep the same water. Just use the gravel
                                                                                                                              > and filter media as Ron suggested.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > - Trevor
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10248 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                              a little curious also. Did the customer bring in a tank/bucket or did you
                                                                                                                              actually bag him? (Always wondered how the bigger fish were handled at an
                                                                                                                              LFS)

                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                              From: "Ron Hansen" <yahoo1@...>
                                                                                                                              To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 10:23 AM
                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.


                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > paul helms said:
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > > no ron i am not. i have sold a 29" red pellied pacu
                                                                                                                              > > myself. that is an average adult size in an aquarium.
                                                                                                                              > > you can quote what you have read as much as you
                                                                                                                              > > like....experience always supercedes it!
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Question: How did you get him out of the tank? I mean, what size net did
                                                                                                                              > you use?
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                              the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                              subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                              in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10249 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Fwd: serious help needed
                                                                                                                              I actually wrote that in response to the email that you sent me from a different addy it was just meant for you but not bad that you sent it here no worries.. I was confused too but thought maybe you just used a different personal email addy when responding away from the group... Shannon
                                                                                                                              Thought I would forward these messages (of 4/10) originally meant for the Group,  mistakenly sent by, and received, by way of a different (and much less frequently used) email address which has no Group connection.  Sorry about the delay/foul-up.  Ray
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10250 From: wendie Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              I need to cycle a tank fairly fast.  I will be using some old gravel from
                                                                                                                              another tank, partial water from another tank and squeezing the filter
                                                                                                                              media into the new filter system. 
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              I am wondering if I should try adding the "cycle" formula.
                                                                                                                              Has anyone had any luck with the "cycle" liquid formula?
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              Wendie
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10251 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
                                                                                                                              i've used it but it doesn't seem to work very well, if at all.

                                                                                                                              --- wendie <wendieo@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > I need to cycle a tank fairly fast. I will be using some old gravel from
                                                                                                                              > another tank, partial water from another tank and squeezing the filter
                                                                                                                              > media into the new filter system.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > I am wondering if I should try adding the "cycle" formula.
                                                                                                                              > Has anyone had any luck with the "cycle" liquid formula?
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Wendie
                                                                                                                              >


                                                                                                                              Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10252 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
                                                                                                                              I was actually warned against using Cycle by two diff. LFS's when I went for my larger tank.  Was recommended to get Bio-Spira.  It is the live bacteria and I will admit, it works great.  Started my 60 gallon and poured the entire amount in and transfered my fish into it without using any old gravel.  new filter, new graval (volcanit), and a couple of plants.  Was nervous about it so measured constantly.  Had a small spike that night, near perfect readings from there on out.   
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              Have since started 3 tanks with the stuff and all three thrived.  Can't say enough for the stuff. 
                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                              From: wendie
                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 12:58 PM
                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fast tank cycle

                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              I need to cycle a tank fairly fast.  I will be using some old gravel from
                                                                                                                              another tank, partial water from another tank and squeezing the filter
                                                                                                                              media into the new filter system. 
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              I am wondering if I should try adding the "cycle" formula.
                                                                                                                              Has anyone had any luck with the "cycle" liquid formula?
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              Wendie


                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10253 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Beta in Tropical Tank?
                                                                                                                              your photos look great! the bettas look like they enjoy their plants and votive. yep, a cave or
                                                                                                                              something like it might keep them entertained, or as someone else suggested, try putting a mirror
                                                                                                                              in front of them ocassionally, it usually makes them flare =)

                                                                                                                              --- wendie <wendieo@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                              > I forgot the plants. They seem to love that stuff.
                                                                                                                              > http://www.nashnutphoto.com/betta.htm
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > I have a shot of four of my tanks there.
                                                                                                                              > Wendie
                                                                                                                              >


                                                                                                                              Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10254 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
                                                                                                                              i've too heard good things about bio spira. we used it in our sw tank and hubby said it helped the
                                                                                                                              cycle along. i don't know how instant it works because we cycled our sw tank the full month just
                                                                                                                              to be sure before we added anything else besides the lr & ls.

                                                                                                                              --- The Dragon Hunter <dragon.hunter@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                              > I was actually warned against using Cycle by two diff. LFS's when I went for my larger tank.
                                                                                                                              > Was recommended to get Bio-Spira. It is the live bacteria and I will admit, it works great.
                                                                                                                              > Started my 60 gallon and poured the entire amount in and transfered my fish into it without
                                                                                                                              > using any old gravel. new filter, new graval (volcanit), and a couple of plants. Was nervous
                                                                                                                              > about it so measured constantly. Had a small spike that night, near perfect readings from there
                                                                                                                              > on out.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Have since started 3 tanks with the stuff and all three thrived. Can't say enough for the
                                                                                                                              > stuff.


                                                                                                                              Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10255 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                              Subject: interesting saltwater fish
                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                was in my lfs the other day & saw this fish listed as a batfish. anyone know anything about it or
                                                                                                                                heard of it at all? sorry if it's not a very good photo - i took it using my camera phone.

                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10256 From: dozer0011 Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Tidepool II wet/dry
                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "infomehlb" <infomehlb@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Any advise on setting up a wet/dry so as not to cause a flood? I
                                                                                                                                will
                                                                                                                                > be installing ball valves on overflow and return as well as a check
                                                                                                                                > valve on the overflow. What is the formula for balancing the water
                                                                                                                                in
                                                                                                                                > the tank and sump so I do not have a flood if I lose power?
                                                                                                                                > Thanks
                                                                                                                                > 1st time with a wet/dry

                                                                                                                                I'm running the Tidepool on a 75 gallon using the sos external
                                                                                                                                overflow (designed for it), and a mag 7 submersible pump.

                                                                                                                                My advice is NOT to use any valve on the overflow whatsoever as
                                                                                                                                it needs unrestricted flow. DO use a ball valve on the return in case
                                                                                                                                your pump is powerful enough to overwhelm your overflow.

                                                                                                                                My return is situated about an inch down from operating water
                                                                                                                                level and does back-siphon when the power is cut.... but the Tidepool
                                                                                                                                can handle the volume from the 75 gal.

                                                                                                                                This filter comes with adhesive high & low level indicators. I
                                                                                                                                placed the low-level approx. 1/2 inch above the intake on my pump to
                                                                                                                                prevent it from sucking air. I placed the high-level approx. at the
                                                                                                                                same elevation of the "dam" that separates the bio-wheel from the open
                                                                                                                                sump so the wheel can spin freely. This gives me about a 2.5" spread
                                                                                                                                between the marks

                                                                                                                                When doing water changes, take note of the water level in the
                                                                                                                                tank after you cut power and all flow stops. Fill to this level with
                                                                                                                                new water and you should be back where you belong.
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10257 From: Evita Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
                                                                                                                                I was wonderting why no shops carry Bio-Spira?  I called around and then found you could order it on line.  Evita

                                                                                                                                The Dragon Hunter <dragon.hunter@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                I was actually warned against using Cycle by two diff. LFS's when I went for my larger tank.  Was recommended to get Bio-Spira.  It is the live bacteria and I will admit, it works great.  Started my 60 gallon and poured the entire amount in and transfered my fish into it without using any old gravel.  new filter, new graval (volcanit), and a couple of plants.  Was nervous about it so measured constantly.  Had a small spike that night, near perfect readings from there on out.   
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Have since started 3 tanks with the stuff and all three thrived.  Can't say enough for the stuff. 
                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                From: wendie
                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 12:58 PM
                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fast tank cycle

                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                I need to cycle a tank fairly fast.  I will be using some old gravel from
                                                                                                                                another tank, partial water from another tank and squeezing the filter
                                                                                                                                media into the new filter system. 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                I am wondering if I should try adding the "cycle" formula.
                                                                                                                                Has anyone had any luck with the "cycle" liquid formula?
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Wendie


                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10258 From: Trevor Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
                                                                                                                                Some shops do, most don't, at least in my area; probably because it
                                                                                                                                requires refrigeration.

                                                                                                                                - Trevor

                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Evita <evitabug@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > I was wonderting why no shops carry Bio-Spira? I called around and
                                                                                                                                then found you could order it on line. Evita
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > The Dragon Hunter <dragon.hunter@d...> wrote:I was actually warned
                                                                                                                                against using Cycle by two diff. LFS's when I went for my larger tank.
                                                                                                                                Was recommended to get Bio-Spira. It is the live bacteria and I will
                                                                                                                                admit, it works great. Started my 60 gallon and poured the entire
                                                                                                                                amount in and transfered my fish into it without using any old gravel.
                                                                                                                                new filter, new graval (volcanit), and a couple of plants. Was
                                                                                                                                nervous about it so measured constantly. Had a small spike that
                                                                                                                                night, near perfect readings from there on out.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Have since started 3 tanks with the stuff and all three thrived.
                                                                                                                                Can't say enough for the stuff.
                                                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                > From: wendie
                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 12:58 PM
                                                                                                                                > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fast tank cycle
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I need to cycle a tank fairly fast. I will be using some old gravel
                                                                                                                                from
                                                                                                                                > another tank, partial water from another tank and squeezing the filter
                                                                                                                                > media into the new filter system.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I am wondering if I should try adding the "cycle" formula.
                                                                                                                                > Has anyone had any luck with the "cycle" liquid formula?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Wendie
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10259 From: Trevor Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Windfall
                                                                                                                                That will certainly help. So will any gravel you can take from your
                                                                                                                                existing tanks.

                                                                                                                                - Trevor

                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cynthia brennemann"
                                                                                                                                <brennewoman@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Hmmm...in the event that his wife DOES make him break it down
                                                                                                                                > prematurely and we don't have that...can I just take the used filter
                                                                                                                                > media from our existing tanks and put it in the new tank when we cycle
                                                                                                                                > it?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > You really don't even need to keep the same water. Just use the gravel
                                                                                                                                > > and filter media as Ron suggested.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10260 From: paul helms Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
                                                                                                                                because it has been recalled several times, and has a
                                                                                                                                very short "shelf life"
                                                                                                                                --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > I was wonderting why no shops carry Bio-Spira? I
                                                                                                                                > called around and then found you could order it on
                                                                                                                                > line. Evita
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > The Dragon Hunter <dragon.hunter@...>
                                                                                                                                > wrote:I was actually warned against using Cycle by
                                                                                                                                > two diff. LFS's when I went for my larger tank. Was
                                                                                                                                > recommended to get Bio-Spira. It is the live
                                                                                                                                > bacteria and I will admit, it works great. Started
                                                                                                                                > my 60 gallon and poured the entire amount in and
                                                                                                                                > transfered my fish into it without using any old
                                                                                                                                > gravel. new filter, new graval (volcanit), and a
                                                                                                                                > couple of plants. Was nervous about it so measured
                                                                                                                                > constantly. Had a small spike that night, near
                                                                                                                                > perfect readings from there on out.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Have since started 3 tanks with the stuff and all
                                                                                                                                > three thrived. Can't say enough for the stuff.
                                                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                > From: wendie
                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 12:58 PM
                                                                                                                                > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fast tank cycle
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I need to cycle a tank fairly fast. I will be using
                                                                                                                                > some old gravel from
                                                                                                                                > another tank, partial water from another tank and
                                                                                                                                > squeezing the filter
                                                                                                                                > media into the new filter system.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I am wondering if I should try adding the "cycle"
                                                                                                                                > formula.
                                                                                                                                > Has anyone had any luck with the "cycle" liquid
                                                                                                                                > formula?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Wendie
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                                > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                                > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                > matter
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                                > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                                > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                > matter
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10261 From: Eric Miner Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Confused about my local water
                                                                                                                                Hello All,

                                                                                                                                As I get closer to starting my first tank I finally took a look at the
                                                                                                                                figures for the water here. I've done a lot of reading, but now that
                                                                                                                                I'm face to face with my local water I'm confused. Below are the pH
                                                                                                                                and hardness values for the water –

                                                                                                                                pH = 8.25

                                                                                                                                Hardness, total, as CaCO3 by EDTA, mg/L = 28

                                                                                                                                I'm planning a tank with a couple of types of tetras, one type of cory
                                                                                                                                and harlequins. From what I've read these figures are not going to be
                                                                                                                                too good for the fish. Am I overreacting? Are these values OK? Will I
                                                                                                                                need to treat the water?

                                                                                                                                Thanks,

                                                                                                                                Eric
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10262 From: paul helms Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
                                                                                                                                there is no such thing as cycling a tank fast. any
                                                                                                                                attempt to cheat the natural process will most likely
                                                                                                                                result in a dead tank in 6 months. if you must add
                                                                                                                                fish now, dose every 3 days for 2-3 weeks with stress
                                                                                                                                zyme. it works very well
                                                                                                                                --- wendie <wendieo@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I need to cycle a tank fairly fast. I will be
                                                                                                                                > using some old gravel from
                                                                                                                                > another tank, partial water from another tank and
                                                                                                                                > squeezing the filter
                                                                                                                                > media into the new filter system.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I am wondering if I should try adding the "cycle"
                                                                                                                                > formula.
                                                                                                                                > Has anyone had any luck with the "cycle" liquid
                                                                                                                                > formula?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Wendie
                                                                                                                                >



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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10263 From: paul helms Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Confused about my local water
                                                                                                                                it is fine, you are checking things that are no big
                                                                                                                                deal. you should be focusing on nitrate, nitrite,
                                                                                                                                ammonia levels
                                                                                                                                --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Hello All,
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > As I get closer to starting my first tank I finally
                                                                                                                                > took a look at the
                                                                                                                                > figures for the water here. I've done a lot of
                                                                                                                                > reading, but now that
                                                                                                                                > I'm face to face with my local water I'm confused.
                                                                                                                                > Below are the pH
                                                                                                                                > and hardness values for the water �
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > pH = 8.25
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Hardness, total, as CaCO3 by EDTA, mg/L = 28
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I'm planning a tank with a couple of types of
                                                                                                                                > tetras, one type of cory
                                                                                                                                > and harlequins. From what I've read these figures
                                                                                                                                > are not going to be
                                                                                                                                > too good for the fish. Am I overreacting? Are these
                                                                                                                                > values OK? Will I
                                                                                                                                > need to treat the water?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Eric
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >



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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10264 From: paul helms Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                                ice chest
                                                                                                                                --- The Dragon Hunter
                                                                                                                                <dragon.hunter@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > a little curious also. Did the customer bring in a
                                                                                                                                > tank/bucket or did you
                                                                                                                                > actually bag him? (Always wondered how the bigger
                                                                                                                                > fish were handled at an
                                                                                                                                > LFS)
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                > From: "Ron Hansen" <yahoo1@...>
                                                                                                                                > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 10:23 AM
                                                                                                                                > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mature sizes of fish.
                                                                                                                                > Opinions please.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > paul helms said:
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > no ron i am not. i have sold a 29" red pellied
                                                                                                                                > pacu
                                                                                                                                > > > myself. that is an average adult size in an
                                                                                                                                > aquarium.
                                                                                                                                > > > you can quote what you have read as much as you
                                                                                                                                > > > like....experience always supercedes it!
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Question: How did you get him out of the tank? I
                                                                                                                                > mean, what size net did
                                                                                                                                > > you use?
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                                                > when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                > that is not important to
                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                > message modify the
                                                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >



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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10265 From: paul helms Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                                2 large nets. one from the front and one from the
                                                                                                                                back. lets just say i got him in and out fine, but i
                                                                                                                                got a bath both times! i used the large nets for
                                                                                                                                indoor ponds. i usually net 8 inch koi withthem.
                                                                                                                                --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > paul helms said:
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > no ron i am not. i have sold a 29" red pellied
                                                                                                                                > pacu
                                                                                                                                > > myself. that is an average adult size in an
                                                                                                                                > aquarium.
                                                                                                                                > > you can quote what you have read as much as you
                                                                                                                                > > like....experience always supercedes it!
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Question: How did you get him out of the tank? I
                                                                                                                                > mean, what size net did
                                                                                                                                > you use?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >



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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10266 From: worship_hedvvwig Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: does coppersafe work?
                                                                                                                                has anyone ever had any success with mardel coppersafe? i treated my
                                                                                                                                tank 4 days ago, and it seems like the ich is getting worse. is it too
                                                                                                                                early to tell if the coppersafe is working??
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10267 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Windfall
                                                                                                                                    If I was the husband, I would send the wife to therapy for her control issues.  While she was gone, I would get a new tank.  But his pain is your gain. :)
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                Well, a friend of my DH who is an enthusiastic aquarium keeper is getting rid of all of his fish and tanks.  (Wife has said if she can't have her yorkies he can't have his fish)  My DH and I are getting a
                                                                                                                                nice 55 gallon tank setup with all the equipment intact, so we will finally have a place to put those large fish in my daughters tanks!  Whew!
                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10268 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
                                                                                                                                    My tank was fully cycled in 2 days.  No ammonia or nitrite spikes after that.  Of course, I added the filter sponge and gravel from two cycled 10 gallon tanks, and some of the water and all the plants, but 2 days. :)  Biospira does the same thing, all the bacteria at one time, a mini cycle in a couple of days, nitrates rise and it is done.  Of course, it still takes a few weeks for everything to settle down with pH, gas levels, etc.  I just don't agree that it can't be sped up.
                                                                                                                                    Interesting story, 30 years ago, before they really understood the cycle, I read a book from back then that said all bacteria should be kept out of a fish tank to prevent dangerous nitrites!  If they had just waited a few more weeks, they would have realized the nitrites would go away like the ammonia. :)
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                there is no such thing as cycling a tank fast.  any attempt to cheat the natural process will most likely result in a dead tank in 6 months.  if you must add fish now, dose every 3 days for 2-3 weeks with stress zyme.  it works very well
                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10269 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Windfall
                                                                                                                                LOL Me too...I've often asked my DH exactly WHY this guy married her
                                                                                                                                in the first place...but oh, well. i don't have to live with her...LOL

                                                                                                                                > If I was the husband, I would send the wife to therapy for her
                                                                                                                                control
                                                                                                                                > issues. While she was gone, I would get a new tank. But his pain is
                                                                                                                                your
                                                                                                                                > gain. :)
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10270 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Windfall

                                                                                                                                Just let the girl have her yorkies.  He must REALLY hate these dogs! lol

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                From: Patrick, American Fish Guy [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 5:45 PM
                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Windfall

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                    If I was the husband, I would send the wife to therapy for her control issues.  While she was gone, I would get a new tank.  But his pain is your gain. :)

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.

                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                Well, a friend of my DH who is an enthusiastic aquarium keeper is getting rid of all of his fish and tanks.  (Wife has said if she can't have her yorkies he can't have his fish)  My DH and I are getting a
                                                                                                                                nice 55 gallon tank setup with all the equipment intact, so we will finally have a place to put those large fish in my daughters tanks!  Whew!

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                 

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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10271 From: wendie Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
                                                                                                                                LOL I hate to say it but I kept fish back in the 60's bred Angels, gouramis, cats, betta, etc.  Back then you cleaned your tank, put in
                                                                                                                                the water and put the fish in the following day if you wanted to
                                                                                                                                wait that long.  Never had a problem, never had a loss.  Did that for years and years.  I cleaned a 20 gallon tank one morning, stuck a pair of gouramis in that night and had eggs the next morning.  Raised about 300 of the little guys with that spawn.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                All this new stuff takes getting used to.
                                                                                                                                Wendie
                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                From: Patrick, American Fish Guy [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 5:58 PM
                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fast tank cycle

                                                                                                                                    My tank was fully cycled in 2 days.  No ammonia or nitrite spikes after that.  Of course, I added the filter sponge and gravel from two cycled 10 gallon tanks, and some of the water and all the plants, but 2 days. :)  Biospira does the same thing, all the bacteria at one time, a mini cycle in a couple of days, nitrates rise and it is done.  Of course, it still takes a few weeks for everything to settle down with pH, gas levels, etc.  I just don't agree that it can't be sped up.
                                                                                                                                    Interesting story, 30 years ago, before they really understood the cycle, I read a book from back then that said all bacteria should be kept out of a fish tank to prevent dangerous nitrites!  If they had just waited a few more weeks, they would have realized the nitrites would go away like the ammonia. :)
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                there is no such thing as cycling a tank fast.  any attempt to cheat the natural process will most likely result in a dead tank in 6 months.  if you must add fish now, dose every 3 days for 2-3 weeks with stress zyme.  it works very well
                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10272 From: wendie Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
                                                                                                                                Thanks for all the info.  I'll try the Bio Spira.  It will be mailed shortly and should be here in time for the tank to get a boost from it.
                                                                                                                                I'll do the gravel and old filter media first plus plant it.
                                                                                                                                Wendie
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                From: The Dragon Hunter [mailto:dragon.hunter@...]
                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 3:34 PM
                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fast tank cycle

                                                                                                                                I was actually warned against using Cycle by two diff. LFS's when I went for my larger tank.  Was recommended to get Bio-Spira.  It is the live bacteria and I will admit, it works great.  Started my 60 gallon and poured the entire amount in and transfered my fish into it without using any old gravel.  new filter, new graval (volcanit), and a couple of plants.  Was nervous about it so measured constantly.  Had a small spike that night, near perfect readings from there on out.   
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Have since started 3 tanks with the stuff and all three thrived.  Can't say enough for the stuff. 
                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                From: wendie
                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 12:58 PM
                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fast tank cycle

                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                I need to cycle a tank fairly fast.  I will be using some old gravel from
                                                                                                                                another tank, partial water from another tank and squeezing the filter
                                                                                                                                media into the new filter system. 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                I am wondering if I should try adding the "cycle" formula.
                                                                                                                                Has anyone had any luck with the "cycle" liquid formula?
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Wendie


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                                                                                                                                .
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                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                .
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10273 From: paul helms Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
                                                                                                                                exactly...cycled in 2 days by using all of the bio
                                                                                                                                filtration from 2 establisehd tanks! lmao
                                                                                                                                --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > My tank was fully cycled in 2 days. No ammonia
                                                                                                                                > or nitrite spikes after
                                                                                                                                > that. Of course, I added the filter sponge and
                                                                                                                                > gravel from two cycled 10
                                                                                                                                > gallon tanks, and some of the water and all the
                                                                                                                                > plants, but 2 days. :)
                                                                                                                                > Biospira does the same thing, all the bacteria at
                                                                                                                                > one time, a mini cycle in
                                                                                                                                > a couple of days, nitrates rise and it is done. Of
                                                                                                                                > course, it still takes a
                                                                                                                                > few weeks for everything to settle down with pH, gas
                                                                                                                                > levels, etc. I just
                                                                                                                                > don't agree that it can't be sped up.
                                                                                                                                > Interesting story, 30 years ago, before they
                                                                                                                                > really understood the cycle
                                                                                                                                > I read a book from back then that said all bacteria
                                                                                                                                > should be kept out of a
                                                                                                                                > fish tank to prevent dangerous nitrites! If they
                                                                                                                                > had just waited a few more
                                                                                                                                > weeks, they would have realized the nitrites would
                                                                                                                                > go away like the ammonia.
                                                                                                                                > :)
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                > there is no such thing as cycling a tank fast. any
                                                                                                                                > attempt to cheat the natural process will most
                                                                                                                                > likely result in a dead tank in 6 months. if you
                                                                                                                                > must add fish now, dose every 3 days for 2-3 weeks
                                                                                                                                > with stress zyme. it works very well



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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10274 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
                                                                                                                                A lot of people say fish were stronger back then, and I believe it.  They must have been. 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                LOL I hate to say it but I kept fish back in the 60's bred Angels, gouramis, cats, betta, etc.  Back then you cleaned your tank, put in the water and put the fish in the following day if you wanted to wait that long.  Never had a problem, never had a loss.  Did that for years and years.  I cleaned a 20 gallon tank one morning, stuck a pair of gouramis in that night and had eggs the next morning.  Raised about 300 of the little guys with that spawn. All this new stuff takes getting used to.
                                                                                                                                Wendie
                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10275 From: wendie Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
                                                                                                                                I used to keep two mated pairs of angels in the same tank.
                                                                                                                                The female laid eggs every 2 weeks... paraded the little
                                                                                                                                ones around the tank. 
                                                                                                                                Wendie
                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                From: Patrick, American Fish Guy [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 8:07 PM
                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fast tank cycle

                                                                                                                                A lot of people say fish were stronger back then, and I believe it.  They must have been. 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                LOL I hate to say it but I kept fish back in the 60's bred Angels, gouramis, cats, betta, etc.  Back then you cleaned your tank, put in the water and put the fish in the following day if you wanted to wait that long.  Never had a problem, never had a loss.  Did that for years and years.  I cleaned a 20 gallon tank one morning, stuck a pair of gouramis in that night and had eggs the next morning.  Raised about 300 of the little guys with that spawn. All this new stuff takes getting used to.
                                                                                                                                Wendie
                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10276 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: interesting saltwater fish
                                                                                                                                Probably not a fish you would wish to keep until you have a very large
                                                                                                                                tank--they can grow to about 20" in length, and are at least that in height.
                                                                                                                                Did I mention you will need a big tank? Big and deep. The quick search I did
                                                                                                                                shows that they may not be fussy eaters, but do have a varied diet of
                                                                                                                                detritus, plant matter and flesh. Mention was made that adults are solitary
                                                                                                                                critters, often found under overhanging rocks or coral. Something of this
                                                                                                                                sort would need to be present in your tank. Did I mention you are going to
                                                                                                                                need a really large tank?

                                                                                                                                \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                From: Valeen Gonzalez [mailto:valeendgonzalez@...]
                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 4:56 PM
                                                                                                                                To: Aquatic Life
                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] interesting saltwater fish

                                                                                                                                was in my lfs the other day & saw this fish listed as a batfish. anyone know
                                                                                                                                anything about it or
                                                                                                                                heard of it at all? sorry if it's not a very good photo - i took it using my
                                                                                                                                camera phone.

                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!



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                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10277 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
                                                                                                                                When I did water changes and tank cleanings back in the sixties, I don't
                                                                                                                                remember going to all that trouble. Did it then pretty much how I do it now,
                                                                                                                                but with a few updates to the present. Gravel was stirred and water siphoned
                                                                                                                                out--at least 20% in those days. Filters were cleaned and new "aged" water
                                                                                                                                was added. Now I use a gravel vacuum so the detritus does not get into the
                                                                                                                                water column, and I'll add Amquel while that water is coming straight from
                                                                                                                                the tap. Most of the people I knew then, who were keeping fish, used some
                                                                                                                                variation on that method. I must admit that we did hear of crazy people who
                                                                                                                                did it your way, but I've never met one who would admit to it.

                                                                                                                                \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                ________________________________

                                                                                                                                From: wendie [mailto:wendieo@...]
                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:42 PM
                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fast tank cycle


                                                                                                                                LOL I hate to say it but I kept fish back in the 60's bred Angels, gouramis,
                                                                                                                                cats, betta, etc. Back then you cleaned your tank, put in
                                                                                                                                the water and put the fish in the following day if you wanted to
                                                                                                                                wait that long. Never had a problem, never had a loss. Did that for years
                                                                                                                                and years. I cleaned a 20 gallon tank one morning, stuck a pair of gouramis
                                                                                                                                in that night and had eggs the next morning. Raised about 300 of the little
                                                                                                                                guys with that spawn.

                                                                                                                                All this new stuff takes getting used to.
                                                                                                                                Wendie

                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                From: Patrick, American Fish Guy [mailto:patrickmn1@...]
                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 5:58 PM
                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fast tank cycle


                                                                                                                                My tank was fully cycled in 2 days. No ammonia or
                                                                                                                                nitrite spikes after that. Of course, I added the filter sponge and gravel
                                                                                                                                from two cycled 10 gallon tanks, and some of the water and all the plants,
                                                                                                                                but 2 days. :) Biospira does the same thing, all the bacteria at one time,
                                                                                                                                a mini cycle in a couple of days, nitrates rise and it is done. Of course,
                                                                                                                                it still takes a few weeks for everything to settle down with pH, gas
                                                                                                                                levels, etc. I just don't agree that it can't be sped up.
                                                                                                                                Interesting story, 30 years ago, before they really understood
                                                                                                                                the cycle, I read a book from back then that said all bacteria should be
                                                                                                                                kept out of a fish tank to prevent dangerous nitrites! If they had just
                                                                                                                                waited a few more weeks, they would have realized the nitrites would go away
                                                                                                                                like the ammonia. :)

                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                there is no such thing as cycling a tank fast. any attempt to cheat
                                                                                                                                the natural process will most likely result in a dead tank in 6 months. if
                                                                                                                                you must add fish now, dose every 3 days for 2-3 weeks with stress zyme. it
                                                                                                                                works very well

                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
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                                                                                                                                Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                thanks
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10278 From: Evita Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Windfall
                                                                                                                                The post sounded to me that the husband had told her to get rid of her dogs and she said well get rid of your tanks.  They might both have issues. Maybe they need to each get separate houses. Evita

                                                                                                                                "Patrick, American Fish Guy" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                    If I was the husband, I would send the wife to therapy for her control issues.  While she was gone, I would get a new tank.  But his pain is your gain. :)
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                Well, a friend of my DH who is an enthusiastic aquarium keeper is getting rid of all of his fish and tanks.  (Wife has said if she can't have her yorkies he can't have his fish)  My DH and I are getting a
                                                                                                                                nice 55 gallon tank setup with all the equipment intact, so we will finally have a place to put those large fish in my daughters tanks!  Whew!
                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10279 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Windfall
                                                                                                                                    No need to end the relationship, but the man is always right.  Notice my name is Patrick, not Patricia. :) 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                The post sounded to me that the husband had told her to get rid of her dogs and she said well get rid of your tanks.  They might both have issues. Maybe they need to each get separate houses. Evita
                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10280 From: Anne Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Clown loaches question
                                                                                                                                Hi, I was wondering if anyone kept clown loaches?
                                                                                                                                From what I've read, they enjoy the company of their
                                                                                                                                own. I currently have 2 that are the same size 2 1/2",
                                                                                                                                I'd like to add a 3rd but the lfs only has smaller
                                                                                                                                ones - maybe 1 1/2" Will they school together or is
                                                                                                                                the size difference a consideration with clowns?
                                                                                                                                Thanks
                                                                                                                                Anne




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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10281 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Confused about my local water
                                                                                                                                Eric are these readings out of the tap or after sitting 24 hrs? they can differ ...
                                                                                                                                my PH out of tap = 7.7  after 24 hrs 7.4


                                                                                                                                I am not  a tetra person but i do believe that they prefer soft or slightly acid water with a Ph of 6.5-7.0   Your ph of 8.0+ would probally not be to healthy for them. I do some tetras are pretty forgiving when it comes to hardness though.

                                                                                                                                If these are after setting for any amount of time I would suggest you chose some diffrent fish.  Ph of 8.2 says Rift Lake cichlids to me and not much else.

                                                                                                                                If you have a small tank I'd suggest a lake Tang Shell dwellers, they can be very comical and have unique personalities , just not that colorful.


                                                                                                                                rob
                                                                                                                                Indiana





                                                                                                                                In a message dated 4/12/2005 5:05:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time, eminer1254@... writes:


                                                                                                                                I'm planning a tank with a couple of types of tetras, one type of cory
                                                                                                                                and harlequins. From what I've read these figures are not going to be
                                                                                                                                too good for the fish. Am I overreacting? Are these values OK? Will I
                                                                                                                                need to treat the water?

                                                                                                                                Thanks,

                                                                                                                                Eric




                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10282 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Clown loaches question
                                                                                                                                add the 3rd loach IF you have a decent sized tank...
                                                                                                                                The clown loaches can reach sizes over 10 inches. It just takes awhile. 3-5 Clowns under 6" could easily be kept in a 55 gallon tank  3 three inch fish could be housed in a 20 gallon tank for awhile...

                                                                                                                                rob
                                                                                                                                Indiana


                                                                                                                                In a message dated 4/13/2005 12:04:39 AM US Eastern Standard Time, md_gustoby@... writes:



                                                                                                                                Hi, I was wondering if anyone kept clown loaches?
                                                                                                                                From what I've read, they  enjoy the company of their
                                                                                                                                own. I currently have 2 that are the same size 2 1/2",
                                                                                                                                I'd like to add a 3rd but the lfs only has smaller
                                                                                                                                ones - maybe 1 1/2" Will they school together or is
                                                                                                                                the size difference a consideration with clowns?
                                                                                                                                Thanks
                                                                                                                                Anne


                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10283 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/12/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: serious help needed
                                                                                                                                yea that was funny confusion lol.. but he and the other two are still going strong lol.. I don't like the bucket either cause I cant see them.. but I don't have a tank or glad I think your right I do need to add some floating plants... I plan on doing this for 10 days and if they are alive then ill go from there.. I have a heater in there and a thermo... I am not sure if they all ate though... yea the .25 was only like that for like a day... I have stopped feeding the snails so much in turn they have stopped being so active.. but way less poop.. so I hope I am feeding them enough... Shannon

                                                                                                                                Sorry about not getting back to you on this one Shannon, but I goofed-
                                                                                                                                up and didn't realize I sent you this answer (to which you replied)
                                                                                                                                on another of my email addresses which does not have a connection to
                                                                                                                                our Group site, and I didn't discover it until just now.  I was
                                                                                                                                wondering what happened to it!.  Now to get to your questions and
                                                                                                                                concerns in your message here, no, .25 is not too bad for your
                                                                                                                                nitrate reading, especially as it was only for a short time, and
                                                                                                                                should not have been the cause of the Gourami getting sick as I first
                                                                                                                                suggested.  Sounds like you're doing a good job cleaning up after the
                                                                                                                                snails.  If by "filterS", you mean that you have more than one in the
                                                                                                                                tank, you might want to consider switching out one filter at a time
                                                                                                                                and do the second one several days later.  By putting him in a bowl,
                                                                                                                                if you mean a clear glass fish bowl that isn't too small, that would
                                                                                                                                be fine, especially with a bit of floating plants to make him
                                                                                                                                feel "more at home".  Just a regular bowl (mixing bowl) from the
                                                                                                                                kitchen may make him more stressed, though.  The large fish bowl, if
                                                                                                                                that's what you have, might even be better than the bucket you've put
                                                                                                                                him in.  Good to see you have an extra air pump -- they do come in
                                                                                                                                handy.  Keep us posted as to how he's doing and feel free to ask any
                                                                                                                                other questions.  Regards,  Ray     
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10284 From: Evita Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Windfall
                                                                                                                                Patrick, Have you ever heard the saying?,  "If Momma ain't happy, no-body's happy".  :)Evita

                                                                                                                                "Patrick, American Fish Guy" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                    No need to end the relationship, but the man is always right.  Notice my name is Patrick, not Patricia. :) 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                The post sounded to me that the husband had told her to get rid of her dogs and she said well get rid of your tanks.  They might both have issues. Maybe they need to each get separate houses. Evita
                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10285 From: Jade Evita Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                I was out yesterday with the kids buying a pool for the yard. Anyway
                                                                                                                                while out we saw some ghost shrimp. I read last night they were ok for
                                                                                                                                the community tank as long as the fish were smaller like the neons and
                                                                                                                                guppies. They were so cute and only 28 cents a piece. I found them on
                                                                                                                                line for 48 cents a piece. I read they are good at eating left over
                                                                                                                                food that hits the bottom and they recommended one ghost per gallon. I
                                                                                                                                was wondering if anyone has them and can tell me anything about them.
                                                                                                                                They were so interesting and cute in their own shrimp way. Evita
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10286 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: interesting saltwater fish
                                                                                                                                Cute as a baby,
                                                                                                                                www.rstours.com/assets/images/juvenile-batfish.jpg

                                                                                                                                ugly as an adult
                                                                                                                                http://www.goals.com/WorldDiveQuest/Pics/Australia/batfish.jpg


                                                                                                                                Fairly large, also.
                                                                                                                                http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?genusname=Platax&speciesname=orbicularis




                                                                                                                                Valeen Gonzalez said:
                                                                                                                                > was in my lfs the other day & saw this fish listed as a batfish. anyone
                                                                                                                                > know anything about it or
                                                                                                                                > heard of it at all? sorry if it's not a very good photo - i took it using
                                                                                                                                > my camera phone.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10287 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Windfall
                                                                                                                                No, he actually likes them...but she doesn't feed, walk or bathe them,
                                                                                                                                and he is going to be deployed again. When he came home last time,
                                                                                                                                they had gotten kicked out of base housing because of the dog feces,
                                                                                                                                and she had let all his fish die. So he has just decided that there
                                                                                                                                will be no more pets.

                                                                                                                                > Just let the girl have her yorkies. He must REALLY hate these dogs!
                                                                                                                                lol
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10288 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: serious help needed
                                                                                                                                Glad to hear they're all going strong. Have you added Kanacyn? If
                                                                                                                                not, you might want to consider it if you can swing it, as it should
                                                                                                                                help. It comes on a card of 10 capsules (by Aquatronics) and may
                                                                                                                                really benefit the fish if the disease is not too far along. Its a
                                                                                                                                good medication to have on hand also, as its a broad-spectrum
                                                                                                                                medication. As for the snails and how much to feed them, you might
                                                                                                                                want to ask Theresa, our resident snail lady.
                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                Yup. I really goofed on that message, trying to send it to the Group
                                                                                                                                site from a different email address. Didn't realize it -- Guess I
                                                                                                                                shouldn't post after midnight -- Was wondering why I never saw it, or
                                                                                                                                your reply, later on my regular email. I'm lucky I even found it!
                                                                                                                                Best Regards and have a Good Day, Ray
                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > yea that was funny confusion lol.. but he and the other two are
                                                                                                                                still going
                                                                                                                                > strong lol.. I don't like the bucket either cause I cant see them..
                                                                                                                                but I
                                                                                                                                > don't have a tank or glad I think your right I do need to add some
                                                                                                                                floating
                                                                                                                                > plants... I plan on doing this for 10 days and if they are alive
                                                                                                                                then ill go from
                                                                                                                                > there.. I have a heater in there and a thermo... I am not sure if
                                                                                                                                they all
                                                                                                                                > ate though... yea the .25 was only like that for like a day... I
                                                                                                                                have stopped
                                                                                                                                > feeding the snails so much in turn they have stopped being so
                                                                                                                                active.. but way
                                                                                                                                > less poop.. so I hope I am feeding them enough... Shannon
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Sorry about not getting back to you on this one Shannon, but I
                                                                                                                                goofed-
                                                                                                                                > up and didn't realize I sent you this answer (to which you
                                                                                                                                replied)
                                                                                                                                > on another of my email addresses which does not have a connection
                                                                                                                                to
                                                                                                                                > our Group site, and I didn't discover it until just now. I was
                                                                                                                                > wondering what happened to it!. Now to get to your questions and
                                                                                                                                > concerns in your message here, no, .25 is not too bad for your
                                                                                                                                > nitrate reading, especially as it was only for a short time, and
                                                                                                                                > should not have been the cause of the Gourami getting sick as I
                                                                                                                                first
                                                                                                                                > suggested. Sounds like you're doing a good job cleaning up after
                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                > snails. If by "filterS", you mean that you have more than one in
                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                > tank, you might want to consider switching out one filter at a
                                                                                                                                time
                                                                                                                                > and do the second one several days later. By putting him in a
                                                                                                                                bowl,
                                                                                                                                > if you mean a clear glass fish bowl that isn't too small, that
                                                                                                                                would
                                                                                                                                > be fine, especially with a bit of floating plants to make him
                                                                                                                                > feel "more at home". Just a regular bowl (mixing bowl) from the
                                                                                                                                > kitchen may make him more stressed, though. The large fish bowl,
                                                                                                                                if
                                                                                                                                > that's what you have, might even be better than the bucket you've
                                                                                                                                put
                                                                                                                                > him in. Good to see you have an extra air pump -- they do come in
                                                                                                                                > handy. Keep us posted as to how he's doing and feel free to ask
                                                                                                                                any
                                                                                                                                > other questions. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10289 From: daniel_roachus Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Confused about my local water
                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, FortWayneFish@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                > Eric are these readings out of the tap or after sitting 24 hrs? they
                                                                                                                                can
                                                                                                                                > differ ...
                                                                                                                                > my PH out of tap = 7.7 after 24 hrs 7.4
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I am not a tetra person but i do believe that they prefer soft or
                                                                                                                                slightly
                                                                                                                                > acid water with a Ph of 6.5-7.0 Your ph of 8.0+ would probally not
                                                                                                                                be to
                                                                                                                                > healthy for them.

                                                                                                                                I've got glowlights in water of ph 8.2ish, and they're fine - not too
                                                                                                                                sure about the cories tho - they seem to struggle a bit in mine, A lot
                                                                                                                                of people I asked about PH say its probably best to keep it stable
                                                                                                                                rather than monkey about with it!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10290 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Windfall

                                                                                                                                OMG

                                                                                                                                Yeah, I’d go that route too.  She doesn’t need to be around animals if that’s the case.  Gross!

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                From: cynthia brennemann [mailto:brennewoman@...]
                                                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 6:28 AM
                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Windfall

                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                No, he actually likes them...but she doesn't feed, walk or bathe them,
                                                                                                                                and he is going to be deployed again.  When he came home last time,
                                                                                                                                they had gotten kicked out of base housing because of the dog feces,
                                                                                                                                and she had let all his fish die.  So he has just decided that there
                                                                                                                                will be no more pets.

                                                                                                                                > Just let the girl have her yorkies.  He must REALLY hate these dogs!
                                                                                                                                lol

                                                                                                                                > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!






                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10291 From: Anne Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Clown loaches question
                                                                                                                                Thanks Rob, I have a 30 gal. with 2 clown loaches
                                                                                                                                (2-2.5") and 5 Harlequin Rasboras. A year or so from
                                                                                                                                now I'm planning on getting a 55gal. which will
                                                                                                                                eventually be the home of the loaches - the
                                                                                                                                information you read on the internet and from the lfs
                                                                                                                                is conflciting. It's hard to know what to do <g> I've
                                                                                                                                read where the clowns grow very slowly and reach a max
                                                                                                                                of 6", another article says 12", etc. The lfs guy
                                                                                                                                told me they reach 5-6" then has a display of a large
                                                                                                                                clown loach for sale. Natural question. How'd he get
                                                                                                                                so big if 6" is max. Answer, he wants to sell the
                                                                                                                                small clowns. Thanks again, I think I will add
                                                                                                                                another.
                                                                                                                                Anne


                                                                                                                                Rob said."The clown loaches can reach sizes over 10
                                                                                                                                inches. It just takes awhile. 3-5 Clowns under 6"
                                                                                                                                could easily be kept in a 55 gallon tank 3 three inch
                                                                                                                                fish could be housed in a 20 gallon tank for
                                                                                                                                awhile..."




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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10292 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: serious help needed
                                                                                                                                I think you mean Terri right.. she rocks.. I hit her up with questions constantly... I think its just a learning experience to find out what the happy medium is... a lot of my fish eat some of their food to so I have to watch what they actually eat... and no I only had maracyn.. so that is what I am using.. maybe next time I get med's ill get kanacyn instead... I just recently took back my mela fix that shit was nasty besides the smell stunk up my entire house and made me nauseous the fish and snails hated it.. freaked when I added it.. and I only added a half dose for their adjustment not sure why.. I hear it is really popular... Shannon


                                                                                                                                Glad to hear they're all going strong.  Have you added Kanacyn?  If
                                                                                                                                not, you might want to consider it if you can swing it, as it should
                                                                                                                                help.  It comes on a card of 10 capsules (by Aquatronics) and may
                                                                                                                                really benefit the fish if the disease is not too far along.  Its a
                                                                                                                                good medication to have on hand also, as its a broad-spectrum
                                                                                                                                medication.  As for the snails and how much to feed them, you might
                                                                                                                                want to ask Theresa, our resident snail lady.                       
                                                                                                                                \                                                                    
                                                                                                                                Yup. I really goofed on that message, trying to send it to the Group
                                                                                                                                site from a different email address.  Didn't realize it -- Guess I
                                                                                                                                shouldn't post after midnight -- Was wondering why I never saw it, or
                                                                                                                                your reply, later on my regular email.  I'm lucky I even found it! 
                                                                                                                                Best Regards and have a Good Day,  Ray   
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10293 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: serious help needed
                                                                                                                                Right, that exactly who I meant for info about snails. On the
                                                                                                                                medication, I've read some reports that Maracyn has no effect on
                                                                                                                                Dropsy, however I've also read that both Maracyn (and especially
                                                                                                                                Maracyn II) are effective on some types of Dropsy, so lets hope for
                                                                                                                                the best. I suppose that Maracyn in this case is better than
                                                                                                                                nothing. Yeah, Mela-fix has its uses, but it seems some fish can
                                                                                                                                only take half strength. I've seen good results with it and at other
                                                                                                                                times I've seen fish have a bad reaction to it. I never thought much
                                                                                                                                about it but maybe it depends on the pH at the time(??). I've used
                                                                                                                                it with both excellent results and bad (as in dead fish) results when
                                                                                                                                adding it. Not meant for Dropsy anyway. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I think you mean Terri right.. she rocks.. I hit her up with
                                                                                                                                questions
                                                                                                                                > constantly... I think its just a learning experience to find out
                                                                                                                                what the happy
                                                                                                                                > medium is... a lot of my fish eat some of their food to so I have
                                                                                                                                to watch what
                                                                                                                                > they actually eat... and no I only had maracyn.. so that is what I
                                                                                                                                am using..
                                                                                                                                > maybe next time I get med's ill get kanacyn instead... I just
                                                                                                                                recently took
                                                                                                                                > back my mela fix that shit was nasty besides the smell stunk up my
                                                                                                                                entire
                                                                                                                                > house and made me nauseous the fish and snails hated it.. freaked
                                                                                                                                when I added
                                                                                                                                > it.. and I only added a half dose for their adjustment not sure
                                                                                                                                why.. I hear
                                                                                                                                > it is really popular... Shannon
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Glad to hear they're all going strong. Have you added Kanacyn?
                                                                                                                                If
                                                                                                                                > not, you might want to consider it if you can swing it, as it
                                                                                                                                should
                                                                                                                                > help. It comes on a card of 10 capsules (by Aquatronics) and may
                                                                                                                                > really benefit the fish if the disease is not too far along. Its
                                                                                                                                a
                                                                                                                                > good medication to have on hand also, as its a broad-spectrum
                                                                                                                                > medication. As for the snails and how much to feed them, you
                                                                                                                                might
                                                                                                                                > want to ask Theresa, our resident snail lady.
                                                                                                                                > \
                                                                                                                                > Yup. I really goofed on that message, trying to send it to the
                                                                                                                                Group
                                                                                                                                > site from a different email address. Didn't realize it -- Guess I
                                                                                                                                > shouldn't post after midnight -- Was wondering why I never saw it,
                                                                                                                                or
                                                                                                                                > your reply, later on my regular email. I'm lucky I even found
                                                                                                                                it!
                                                                                                                                > Best Regards and have a Good Day, Ray
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10294 From: paul helms Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: serious help needed
                                                                                                                                melafix is an anntibacterial......why were you addiung
                                                                                                                                it for "adjustment"? it should smell very minty if it
                                                                                                                                was any other smell, there was something wrong.
                                                                                                                                --- agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I think you mean Terri right.. she rocks.. I hit her
                                                                                                                                > up with questions
                                                                                                                                > constantly... I think its just a learning experience
                                                                                                                                > to find out what the happy
                                                                                                                                > medium is... a lot of my fish eat some of their food
                                                                                                                                > to so I have to watch what
                                                                                                                                > they actually eat... and no I only had maracyn.. so
                                                                                                                                > that is what I am using..
                                                                                                                                > maybe next time I get med's ill get kanacyn
                                                                                                                                > instead... I just recently took
                                                                                                                                > back my mela fix that shit was nasty besides the
                                                                                                                                > smell stunk up my entire
                                                                                                                                > house and made me nauseous the fish and snails
                                                                                                                                > hated it.. freaked when I added
                                                                                                                                > it.. and I only added a half dose for their
                                                                                                                                > adjustment not sure why.. I hear
                                                                                                                                > it is really popular... Shannon
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Glad to hear they're all going strong. Have you
                                                                                                                                > added Kanacyn? If
                                                                                                                                > not, you might want to consider it if you can swing
                                                                                                                                > it, as it should
                                                                                                                                > help. It comes on a card of 10 capsules (by
                                                                                                                                > Aquatronics) and may
                                                                                                                                > really benefit the fish if the disease is not too
                                                                                                                                > far along. Its a
                                                                                                                                > good medication to have on hand also, as its a
                                                                                                                                > broad-spectrum
                                                                                                                                > medication. As for the snails and how much to feed
                                                                                                                                > them, you might
                                                                                                                                > want to ask Theresa, our resident snail lady.
                                                                                                                                > \
                                                                                                                                > Yup. I really goofed on that message, trying to send
                                                                                                                                > it to the Group
                                                                                                                                > site from a different email address. Didn't realize
                                                                                                                                > it -- Guess I
                                                                                                                                > shouldn't post after midnight -- Was wondering why I
                                                                                                                                > never saw it, or
                                                                                                                                > your reply, later on my regular email. I'm lucky I
                                                                                                                                > even found it!
                                                                                                                                > Best Regards and have a Good Day, Ray
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >




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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10295 From: paul helms Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                i have them! they are cheap, because they are usually
                                                                                                                                sol as live food. they are non aggressive, and do an
                                                                                                                                excellent job of cleaning. they are only supposed to
                                                                                                                                live 6 months, but i have a 2 year old one in my tank.
                                                                                                                                all in all they are great
                                                                                                                                --- Jade Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I was out yesterday with the kids buying a pool for
                                                                                                                                > the yard. Anyway
                                                                                                                                > while out we saw some ghost shrimp. I read last
                                                                                                                                > night they were ok for
                                                                                                                                > the community tank as long as the fish were smaller
                                                                                                                                > like the neons and
                                                                                                                                > guppies. They were so cute and only 28 cents a
                                                                                                                                > piece. I found them on
                                                                                                                                > line for 48 cents a piece. I read they are good at
                                                                                                                                > eating left over
                                                                                                                                > food that hits the bottom and they recommended one
                                                                                                                                > ghost per gallon. I
                                                                                                                                > was wondering if anyone has them and can tell me
                                                                                                                                > anything about them.
                                                                                                                                > They were so interesting and cute in their own
                                                                                                                                > shrimp way. Evita
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >



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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10296 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Female Beta in tank?

                                                                                                                                OK so no male beta in my “aggressive” tank.  What about our female?  She’s plain, no fancy fins.  I don’t think she’s small enough to get eaten and if I feed them all right away maybe that will help?  Should I put her in with another female beta or do they like to be alone?  Or should I leave her where she is?  (all alone in a “fish bowl”.)

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10297 From: Evita Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                Paul,  I was really surprised they were so cheap....really neat looking too.  Have yours had babies that lived as well?  I am thinking they will be the last thing I add sense they feed on the bottom. Oh I am getting ready in a second to post my new numbers.  I really hope you check them out.  I need advice on what to do next.  Thanks, Evita
                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                i have them! they are cheap, because they are usually
                                                                                                                                sol as live food.  they are non aggressive, and do an
                                                                                                                                excellent job of cleaning.  they are only supposed to
                                                                                                                                live 6 months, but i have a 2 year old one in my tank.
                                                                                                                                all in all they are great
                                                                                                                                --- Jade Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I was out yesterday with the kids buying a pool for
                                                                                                                                > the yard. Anyway
                                                                                                                                > while out we saw some ghost shrimp.  I read last
                                                                                                                                > night they were ok for
                                                                                                                                > the community tank as long as the fish were smaller
                                                                                                                                > like the neons and
                                                                                                                                > guppies.  They were so cute and only 28 cents a
                                                                                                                                > piece.  I found them on
                                                                                                                                > line for 48 cents a piece.  I read they are good at
                                                                                                                                > eating left over
                                                                                                                                > food that hits the bottom and they recommended one
                                                                                                                                > ghost per gallon.  I
                                                                                                                                > was wondering if anyone has them and can tell me
                                                                                                                                > anything about them. 
                                                                                                                                > They were so interesting and cute in their own
                                                                                                                                > shrimp way.  Evita
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                           
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10298 From: Jade Evita Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: NEW NUMBERS ON TANKS
                                                                                                                                I finally added water to my tanks about 3 weeks ago. All my numbers
                                                                                                                                were basically the same till this morning. About a week ago a friend
                                                                                                                                had given me 3 plastic plants with some algae on them and I added two
                                                                                                                                to the 30 gal tank and one to the 20 gal tank. This morning I
                                                                                                                                decided to see if the numbers had changed and they have. Keep in
                                                                                                                                mind I still haven't gotten any fish. I was surprised that the
                                                                                                                                numbers vary now and are different in the 20 gal VS the 30 gal tank.
                                                                                                                                What really doesn't make sense is the hardness numbers, because I
                                                                                                                                started both the tanks the same day and used the same water. Some
                                                                                                                                water has evaporated and I was wondering if in trying to get the tank
                                                                                                                                to cycle since there is no fish in it, do I just top off the tank or
                                                                                                                                do I have to do a water change as well. I really am wanting to get
                                                                                                                                some fish but I keep hearing cycle the tank. I am considering Dano's
                                                                                                                                to start or the platties. Here are my numbers. To me I really
                                                                                                                                thought they would remain basically the same. Is this normal?

                                                                                                                                30 gal. Nitrate 40 Nitrite 3.0 Alkalinity 50-60 PH 6.8
                                                                                                                                Water is showing very hard at 150 where before it had said soft

                                                                                                                                20 gal Nitrate .20 Nitrite 0 Alkalinity 40 PH 6.8 Water soft
                                                                                                                                at 25

                                                                                                                                I am confused. Any advice welcome from anyone. Evita
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10299 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Female Beta in tank?
                                                                                                                                i think i heard somewhere that female bettas can be put in groups of 4 to keep aggression down.
                                                                                                                                but i'm not sure they'd do ok with your other fish - they might be too aggressive for the female
                                                                                                                                bettas. maybe someone else knows for sure who keeps females.

                                                                                                                                --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                > OK so no male beta in my "aggressive" tank. What about our female?
                                                                                                                                > She's plain, no fancy fins. I don't think she's small enough to get
                                                                                                                                > eaten and if I feed them all right away maybe that will help? Should I
                                                                                                                                > put her in with another female beta or do they like to be alone? Or
                                                                                                                                > should I leave her where she is? (all alone in a "fish bowl".)
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10300 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Windfall
                                                                                                                                poor doggies & fish!!!!!

                                                                                                                                --- cynthia brennemann <brennewoman@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > No, he actually likes them...but she doesn't feed, walk or bathe them,
                                                                                                                                > and he is going to be deployed again. When he came home last time,
                                                                                                                                > they had gotten kicked out of base housing because of the dog feces,
                                                                                                                                > and she had let all his fish die. So he has just decided that there
                                                                                                                                > will be no more pets.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > Just let the girl have her yorkies. He must REALLY hate these dogs!
                                                                                                                                > lol
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10301 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: interesting saltwater fish
                                                                                                                                they definitely look different when they mature! kinda like a fw angel on crack =)

                                                                                                                                --- Ron Hansen <yahoo1@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                > Cute as a baby,
                                                                                                                                > www.rstours.com/assets/images/juvenile-batfish.jpg
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > ugly as an adult
                                                                                                                                > http://www.goals.com/WorldDiveQuest/Pics/Australia/batfish.jpg
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Fairly large, also.
                                                                                                                                > http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?genusname=Platax&speciesname=orbicularis
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10302 From: Anne Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Female Beta in tank?
                                                                                                                                I think alot depends on the particular beta. I have
                                                                                                                                several males in various 2.5 gals tanks. Yesterday, i
                                                                                                                                put one of what I thought was the less aggressive
                                                                                                                                males (didn't flare alot at the others) in with my
                                                                                                                                cories and he spent the rest of the day haressing them
                                                                                                                                mercilessly. I finally moved him back to his tank and
                                                                                                                                tried one of the other males. He's doing fine. No
                                                                                                                                chasing, no butting, peaceful- even shares a cave with
                                                                                                                                them. Go figure.
                                                                                                                                Then I have a little female I was thinking of putting
                                                                                                                                in a supposedly peaceful tank but the molly that rules
                                                                                                                                that tank is vicious! lol So I guess there's no hard
                                                                                                                                and fast rules when it comes to fishes. Good luck
                                                                                                                                Anne


                                                                                                                                "Should I put her in with another female beta or do
                                                                                                                                they like to be alone? Or should I leave her where
                                                                                                                                she is? (all alone in a �fish bowl�.)"




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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10303 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: interesting saltwater fish
                                                                                                                                oh no, i wasn't interested in getting one for my tank. i know my 12 is way too small just by
                                                                                                                                looking at the height of the fish. i was just curious about them because i'd never heard of them
                                                                                                                                or seen them until i saw this one the other day.

                                                                                                                                --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                > Probably not a fish you would wish to keep until you have a very large
                                                                                                                                > tank--they can grow to about 20" in length, and are at least that in height.
                                                                                                                                > Did I mention you will need a big tank? Big and deep. The quick search I did
                                                                                                                                > shows that they may not be fussy eaters, but do have a varied diet of
                                                                                                                                > detritus, plant matter and flesh. Mention was made that adults are solitary
                                                                                                                                > critters, often found under overhanging rocks or coral. Something of this
                                                                                                                                > sort would need to be present in your tank. Did I mention you are going to
                                                                                                                                > need a really large tank?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                > From: Valeen Gonzalez [mailto:valeendgonzalez@...]
                                                                                                                                > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 4:56 PM
                                                                                                                                > To: Aquatic Life
                                                                                                                                > Subject: [AquaticLife] interesting saltwater fish
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > was in my lfs the other day & saw this fish listed as a batfish. anyone know
                                                                                                                                > anything about it or
                                                                                                                                > heard of it at all? sorry if it's not a very good photo - i took it using my
                                                                                                                                > camera phone.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10304 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Fast tank cycle
                                                                                                                                hm, it's readily available near me in lfs refrigerator/freezer sections.

                                                                                                                                --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                > because it has been recalled several times, and has a
                                                                                                                                > very short "shelf life"
                                                                                                                                > --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > > I was wonderting why no shops carry Bio-Spira? I
                                                                                                                                > > called around and then found you could order it on
                                                                                                                                > > line. Evita
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > The Dragon Hunter <dragon.hunter@...>
                                                                                                                                > > wrote:I was actually warned against using Cycle by
                                                                                                                                > > two diff. LFS's when I went for my larger tank. Was
                                                                                                                                > > recommended to get Bio-Spira. It is the live
                                                                                                                                > > bacteria and I will admit, it works great. Started
                                                                                                                                > > my 60 gallon and poured the entire amount in and
                                                                                                                                > > transfered my fish into it without using any old
                                                                                                                                > > gravel. new filter, new graval (volcanit), and a
                                                                                                                                > > couple of plants. Was nervous about it so measured
                                                                                                                                > > constantly. Had a small spike that night, near
                                                                                                                                > > perfect readings from there on out.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Have since started 3 tanks with the stuff and all
                                                                                                                                > > three thrived. Can't say enough for the stuff.
                                                                                                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                > > From: wendie
                                                                                                                                > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                > > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 12:58 PM
                                                                                                                                > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fast tank cycle
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > I need to cycle a tank fairly fast. I will be using
                                                                                                                                > > some old gravel from
                                                                                                                                > > another tank, partial water from another tank and
                                                                                                                                > > squeezing the filter
                                                                                                                                > > media into the new filter system.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > I am wondering if I should try adding the "cycle"
                                                                                                                                > > formula.
                                                                                                                                > > Has anyone had any luck with the "cycle" liquid
                                                                                                                                > > formula?
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Wendie
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                > > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
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                                                                                                                                > > the topic of the original message modify the subject
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                                                                                                                                > > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                > > matter
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                > > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
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                                                                                                                                > > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
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                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10305 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: serious help needed
                                                                                                                                no it was and you need to read my ENTIRE sentence...I get high annoyed when ppl jump to conclusions feeling like they just want to put you down or make you wrong...let me be very clear when I say adjustment instead of adding the reg dose for the first time I have half a brain and used half not knowing how the fish would react and thank GOD I did for the didn't like it...   I said BEFORE I had used it... and it is minty or whatnot makes me sick and the fish hated it too... Shannon
                                                                                                                                melafix is an anntibacterial......why were you addiung
                                                                                                                                it for "adjustment"? it should smell very minty if it
                                                                                                                                was any other smell, there was something wrong.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10306 From: pam phetteplace Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: HELP! Pls

                                                                                                                                I have a betta in a ten gallon newly planted tank.  He had been doing very well until I noticed a bit of fin rot,  nothing bad at all.  I thought I would just watch it and of course provide clean water with heater, filtration, weekly water changes.

                                                                                                                                He was looking a little worse and I decided to try some medicated food by wardley.  Yesterday he ate in the morning but in the evening I saw a large amount of fungus of his fin.  I imediately put some maroxy and maracyn 2 in his tank and decreased the water level.  He isnt doing very well he has labored breathing and isnt eating.  Also I believe I see ich on him.

                                                                                                                                My idea is that I introduced this to him with my latest plant purchse (anubius).  I could just kick myself!!   I guess plants need to be quarantined/ disinfected ....  although I have never done that in the past. 

                                                                                                                                I need advise on  treatment methods.  I realize he may not make it.

                                                                                                                                Would also like to know how to disinfect a plant without killing it.

                                                                                                                                HappyFishkeeping

                                                                                                                                Pam

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                 


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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10307 From: J G Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                I have 6 in my 10gal tank. I roginally had 3 in my
                                                                                                                                5gal Betta tank which had a handful of females.
                                                                                                                                Thought they'd last a week or so, but they outlasted
                                                                                                                                the bettas (they contracted something & all died on me
                                                                                                                                one weekend before I could figure out what was wrong
                                                                                                                                :( ). Anyway, I got a 10gal & transfered the
                                                                                                                                survivors over to the bigger tank & everyone is happy.
                                                                                                                                Last I checked, I still had all 6 of them. I've got
                                                                                                                                some neons, a blue tiger barb, a couple guppies, an
                                                                                                                                angle fish & a pelco swimmin in there along with an
                                                                                                                                african dwarf hiding out some where. So they're all
                                                                                                                                fairly small fish.

                                                                                                                                I to read that they were good at keeping the waste &
                                                                                                                                stuff down as well, which was good (since I had a
                                                                                                                                pretty full 5 gal). I really like the way they "swim"
                                                                                                                                kinda looks like they're walking on water... They
                                                                                                                                seem to be pretty cool in the tank, they like the new
                                                                                                                                plant I just added, a glossostigma, I caught like 4 of
                                                                                                                                the 6 hanging out on it a couple days ago. Otherwise
                                                                                                                                they just chill at the bottom pretty much. I've got a
                                                                                                                                neat little flexable air tube - its to be burried, but
                                                                                                                                its not producing a lot of bubbles, so I leave it on
                                                                                                                                top & they like to sit on that too.

                                                                                                                                I just cant wait till the semester is at an end & its
                                                                                                                                time to pack the tank up to head home. They're going
                                                                                                                                to be fun to catch :) I know it was a challenge when
                                                                                                                                I was tryin to transfer them from the 5 to 10 gal :)

                                                                                                                                I know this wasnt much help, but...

                                                                                                                                ~J



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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10308 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                what part of the world are ghost shrimp native to?  do they reside in South American Rain Forests?  Central American Rivers?
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                From: J G <sir_grubs47@...>
                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Sent: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:20:17 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ghost Shrimp

                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                I have 6 in my 10gal tank.  I roginally had 3 in my
                                                                                                                                5gal Betta tank which had a handful of females. 
                                                                                                                                Thought they'd last a week or so, but they outlasted
                                                                                                                                the bettas (they contracted something & all died on me
                                                                                                                                one weekend before I could figure out what was wrong
                                                                                                                                :( ).  Anyway, I got a 10gal & transfered the
                                                                                                                                survivors over to the bigger tank & everyone is happy.
                                                                                                                                 Last I checked, I still had all 6 of them.  I've got
                                                                                                                                some neons, a blue tiger barb, a couple guppies, an
                                                                                                                                angle fish & a pelco swimmin in there along with an
                                                                                                                                african dwarf hiding out some where.  So they're all
                                                                                                                                fairly small fish.  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                I to read that they were good at keeping the waste &
                                                                                                                                stuff down as well, which was good (since I had a
                                                                                                                                pretty full 5 gal).  I really like the way they "swim"
                                                                                                                                kinda looks like they're walking on water...  They
                                                                                                                                seem to be pretty cool in the tank, they like the new
                                                                                                                                plant I just added, a glossostigma, I caught like 4 of
                                                                                                                                the 6 hanging out on it a couple days ago.  Otherwise
                                                                                                                                they just chill at the bottom pretty much.  I've got a
                                                                                                                                neat little flexable air tube - its to be burried, but
                                                                                                                                its not producing a lot of bubbles, so I leave it on
                                                                                                                                top & they like to sit on that too.  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                I just cant wait till the semester is at an end & its
                                                                                                                                time to pack the tank up to head home.  They're going
                                                                                                                                to be fun to catch :)  I know it was a challenge when
                                                                                                                                I was tryin to transfer them from the 5 to 10 gal :)
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                I know this wasnt much help, but...  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                ~J
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                        
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10309 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                what part of the world are ghost shrimp native to?  do they reside in South American Rain Forests?  Central American Rivers?
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                From: J G <sir_grubs47@...>
                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Sent: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:20:17 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ghost Shrimp

                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                I have 6 in my 10gal tank.  I roginally had 3 in my
                                                                                                                                5gal Betta tank which had a handful of females. 
                                                                                                                                Thought they'd last a week or so, but they outlasted
                                                                                                                                the bettas (they contracted something & all died on me
                                                                                                                                one weekend before I could figure out what was wrong
                                                                                                                                :( ).  Anyway, I got a 10gal & transfered the
                                                                                                                                survivors over to the bigger tank & everyone is happy.
                                                                                                                                 Last I checked, I still had all 6 of them.  I've got
                                                                                                                                some neons, a blue tiger barb, a couple guppies, an
                                                                                                                                angle fish & a pelco swimmin in there along with an
                                                                                                                                african dwarf hiding out some where.  So they're all
                                                                                                                                fairly small fish.  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                I to read that they were good at keeping the waste &
                                                                                                                                stuff down as well, which was good (since I had a
                                                                                                                                pretty full 5 gal).  I really like the way they "swim"
                                                                                                                                kinda looks like they're walking on water...  They
                                                                                                                                seem to be pretty cool in the tank, they like the new
                                                                                                                                plant I just added, a glossostigma, I caught like 4 of
                                                                                                                                the 6 hanging out on it a couple days ago.  Otherwise
                                                                                                                                they just chill at the bottom pretty much.  I've got a
                                                                                                                                neat little flexable air tube - its to be burried, but
                                                                                                                                its not producing a lot of bubbles, so I leave it on
                                                                                                                                top & they like to sit on that too.  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                I just cant wait till the semester is at an end & its
                                                                                                                                time to pack the tank up to head home.  They're going
                                                                                                                                to be fun to catch :)  I know it was a challenge when
                                                                                                                                I was tryin to transfer them from the 5 to 10 gal :)
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                I know this wasnt much help, but...  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                ~J
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                __________________________________ 
                                                                                                                                Do you Yahoo!? 
                                                                                                                                Make Yahoo! your home page 
                                                                                                                                http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
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                                                                                                                                At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
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                                                                                                                                Here!</B></A>
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                                                                                                                                your help in this matter 
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10310 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: NEW NUMBERS ON TANKS
                                                                                                                                If you have No fish or anything else in the tank to produce ammonia the tank will not cycle.
                                                                                                                                What is the ammonia reading in your  tap water?

                                                                                                                                Your tank diffrence could because of substrate or possibly tank decorations. What do you have diffrent in the 20 gallon compared to the 30 gallon?

                                                                                                                                what are your ammonia levels? sounds like the nitrates are elevated because there is an ammonia presence in the tank and the nitrates are using them as food.



                                                                                                                                the hardness test needs to be redone to verify reading...


                                                                                                                                rob
                                                                                                                                Indiana



                                                                                                                                In a message dated 4/13/2005 12:30:19 PM US Eastern Standard Time, evitabug@... writes:


                                                                                                                                I really am wanting to get
                                                                                                                                some fish but I keep hearing cycle the tank.  I am considering Dano's
                                                                                                                                to start or the platties.  Here are my numbers.  To me I really
                                                                                                                                thought they would remain basically the same.  Is this normal? 

                                                                                                                                30 gal.   Nitrate 40    Nitrite 3.0   Alkalinity 50-60    PH 6.8   
                                                                                                                                Water is showing very hard at 150 where before it had said soft

                                                                                                                                20 gal Nitrate .20  Nitrite 0   Alkalinity 40   PH  6.8   Water soft
                                                                                                                                at 25


                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10311 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                intresting reading ;  seahorse.org - Collecting Ghost Shrimp


                                                                                                                                In a message dated 4/13/2005 2:10:11 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Iksnip@... writes:




                                                                                                                                what part of the world are ghost shrimp native to?  do they reside in South American Rain Forests?  Central American Rivers?




                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10312 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Ack! Windfall
                                                                                                                                Well, the guy wants us to take the dragonfish, too...so...what can you
                                                                                                                                tell me about a dragonfish? he say's it's agressive, so we'll have to
                                                                                                                                put larger fish in there with it, I guess...
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10313 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP! Pls
                                                                                                                                Pam, when I am bringing new plants into my tank, I first immerse them
                                                                                                                                in a bowl of water and wash thoroughly, then dip briefly in a bowl of
                                                                                                                                cheap vodka, then rinse in clear water again.

                                                                                                                                So far, so good.

                                                                                                                                > Would also like to know how to disinfect a plant without killing it.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > HappyFishkeeping
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Pam
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10314 From: jason stone Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
                                                                                                                                On 4/13/05, cynthia brennemann <brennewoman@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Well, the guy wants us to take the dragonfish, too...so...what can you
                                                                                                                                > tell me about a dragonfish? he say's it's agressive, so we'll have to
                                                                                                                                > put larger fish in there with it, I guess...

                                                                                                                                By DragonFish, does he mean arowana? If so, a 55g won't hold it for
                                                                                                                                long. All arowana get big, like clean water and will eat whatever
                                                                                                                                they can manage to cram in their mouths.

                                                                                                                                -jason
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10315 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
                                                                                                                                Hmmm. Think a good fish store would take him in trade? I don't like
                                                                                                                                keeping big fish cooped up.

                                                                                                                                > > Well, the guy wants us to take the dragonfish, too...so...what can
                                                                                                                                you
                                                                                                                                > > tell me about a dragonfish? he say's it's agressive, so we'll have
                                                                                                                                to
                                                                                                                                > > put larger fish in there with it, I guess...
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > By DragonFish, does he mean arowana? If so, a 55g won't hold it for
                                                                                                                                > long. All arowana get big, like clean water and will eat whatever
                                                                                                                                > they can manage to cram in their mouths.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > -jason
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10316 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
                                                                                                                                Hey Jason,
                                                                                                                                Do you think they would eat birds in an outdoor Koi pond?   : )
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Mike 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                From: jason stone <jasonstone@...>
                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Sent: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:38:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ack! Windfall

                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                On 4/13/05, cynthia brennemann <brennewoman@...> wrote: > > > Well, the guy wants us to take the dragonfish, too...so...what can you > tell me about a dragonfish? he say's it's agressive, so we'll have to > put larger fish in there with it, I guess... By DragonFish, does he mean arowana? If so, a 55g won't hold it for long. All arowana get big, like clean water and will eat whatever they can manage to cram in their mouths. -jason ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> <FONT COLOR="#000099">In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! </FONT><A HREF="http://us.click.yahoo.com/EA3HyD/3MnJAA/79vVAA/ANOolB/TM"><B>Click Here!</B></A> --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks . Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10317 From: Erin Shoemate Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                Are African Dwarf Clawed Frogs small enough to live happily with ghost
                                                                                                                                shrimp and not try to eat them?

                                                                                                                                ~Erin
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10318 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                                Ron

                                                                                                                                A technique (for catching large fish) I have used in the past is to sink a
                                                                                                                                large plastic bag in the tank and swim the fish into it.

                                                                                                                                Then lift it up and drain the excess water out. Try to choose a bag strong
                                                                                                                                enough to handle the weight and any spines etc on fins :-)

                                                                                                                                Clove oil is a useful and inexpensive fish sedative if you are "serious". A
                                                                                                                                sharp picture might suffice for counting also.
                                                                                                                                Cheers

                                                                                                                                Bruce (Hansen)

                                                                                                                                ANGFA (Qld) Inc - http://www.angfaqld.org.au/
                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                From: "Ron Hansen" <yahoo1@...>
                                                                                                                                To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 3:28 AM
                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mature sizes of fish. Opinions please.
                                                                                                                                > determine what you have. <G>.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Oh, that sounds like fun. Either wrestle a 10" fish out of the tank, or
                                                                                                                                > try to count as he's moving in the tank. Maybe I could take a picture and
                                                                                                                                > go from that...
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10319 From: J G Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                Mine went listed as "Clawed" & I wouldnt exactly classify them as clawed either, but I do have two african dwarf  frogs in my tank (well had 2, one passed away Monday), & they left the shrimp alone.  I dont know if Walmart simply omitted (or I omitted when I read the sign) the word clawed or there are 2 different species.  Mine are about an inch long...

                                                                                                                                Erin Shoemate <eshoemate@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                Are African Dwarf Clawed Frogs small enough to live happily with ghost
                                                                                                                                shrimp and not try to eat them?

                                                                                                                                ~Erin


                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10320 From: jason stone Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
                                                                                                                                On 4/13/05, cynthia brennemann <brennewoman@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Hmmm. Think a good fish store would take him in trade? I don't like
                                                                                                                                > keeping big fish cooped up.
                                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                                Depends on the size of the fish. If the fish is already a couple feet
                                                                                                                                long, you may have problems finding a store that will take em. If it
                                                                                                                                is an arowana and only 6" or so you should have no problem getting
                                                                                                                                store credit. Again, if the fish is really big your best chance at a
                                                                                                                                good home is probably a public aquarium.

                                                                                                                                Another idea is to find another person on the list that may want it.
                                                                                                                                Where are you located geographically?

                                                                                                                                -jason
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10321 From: jason stone Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
                                                                                                                                On 4/13/05, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Hey Jason,
                                                                                                                                > Do you think they would eat birds in an outdoor Koi pond? : )
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Mike


                                                                                                                                Damn Mike... now you let out my vision to the rest of the world! :)

                                                                                                                                For those that dont know... I have had this crazy idea of solar water
                                                                                                                                heating a pond in my backyard. The idea would be similar to radiant
                                                                                                                                floor heating that people use for their homes (PEX and whatnot). I am
                                                                                                                                in a zone 9b but that is still too cold for arowana year round. :)

                                                                                                                                BTW, I heard you bought up a quarter of the auction items at the PCCA.
                                                                                                                                Hope your sofa is comfortable! ;) I so wanted that peppermint pl*co
                                                                                                                                for auction... ah well. I heard it went for ~$12. Next time.

                                                                                                                                -jason
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10322 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall - - - cichlid junkie
                                                                                                                                Sorry I blew your plan Jason, didn't know it was a secret like your world domination plot.  Ooops, blew that one too.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                I hope you are successful with the out door solar pond.  I had an outdoor 100 gallon tank a couple years ago, I wanted to go solar heat, but did not know how to go about it.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                As for the PCCA auction, I have to admit, I was a bit overzealous with buying fish.  My wife not being there and hiding my bidder card from me allowed me to go crazy.  I have the auction fish in my new garage, soon to be fishroom, but still have not moved my other fish and tanks from the old apartment.  I will do that over the next four days. 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                I wish you could have hung around until the end they had a lot of free Hikari food samples.  As far as getting the peppermint pleco, we would have bid on it for you, just like ebay, give us your maximum and go no higher. 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Oh as for sleeping on the sofa, I think if I keep up the mega fish buying spree me and the couch will be in the new fishroom.   Fine by me, I miss sleeping on the couch and watching all the fish  : )
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                See you at the next SFAS meeting and auction.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Mike

                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                From: jason stone <jasonstone@...>
                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Sent: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:44:59 -0700
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ack! Windfall

                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                On 4/13/05, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: > > > Hey Jason, > Do you think they would eat birds in an outdoor Koi pond? : ) > > Mike Damn Mike... now you let out my vision to the rest of the world! :) For those that dont know... I have had this crazy idea of solar water heating a pond in my backyard. The idea would be similar to radiant floor heating that people use for their homes (PEX and whatnot). I am in a zone 9b but that is still too cold for arowana year round. :) BTW, I heard you bought up a quarter of the auction items at the PCCA. Hope your sofa is comfortable! ;) I so wanted that peppermint pl*co for auction... ah well. I heard it went for ~$12. Next time. -jason ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> <FONT COLOR="#000099">In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! </FONT><A HREF="http://us.click.yahoo.com/EA3HyD/3MnJAA/79vVAA/ANOolB/TM"><B>Click Here!</B></A> --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks . Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10323 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
                                                                                                                                Hmmm...that's a good idea. I'm right across the River from St. Louis,
                                                                                                                                if anyone on the list is in the area, I could arrange to meet them.

                                                                                                                                > Another idea is to find another person on the list that may want it.
                                                                                                                                > Where are you located geographically?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > -jason
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10324 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
                                                                                                                                S'not such a crazy vision...there are ponds that stay warm due to waste
                                                                                                                                heat being pumped into them up north, why not a similar thing in the
                                                                                                                                backyard? You could do it with wood burning heat and pipes, too.

                                                                                                                                > Damn Mike... now you let out my vision to the rest of the world! :)
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > For those that dont know... I have had this crazy idea of solar water
                                                                                                                                > heating a pond in my backyard. The idea would be similar to radiant
                                                                                                                                > floor heating that people use for their homes (PEX and whatnot). I am
                                                                                                                                > in a zone 9b but that is still too cold for arowana year round. :)
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > BTW, I heard you bought up a quarter of the auction items at the PCCA.
                                                                                                                                > Hope your sofa is comfortable! ;) I so wanted that peppermint pl*co
                                                                                                                                > for auction... ah well. I heard it went for ~$12. Next time.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > -jason
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10325 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                from what i understand, there are 2 species: african dwarf frogs, whose front feet are webbed,
                                                                                                                                they stay small and tend to be peaceful. then there are african clawed frogs whose front feet are
                                                                                                                                not webbed, tend to get very large (like the size of a person's hand) and will eat anything they
                                                                                                                                can fit in their mouths - including any fish unlucky enough to be near them when they're hungry!!!

                                                                                                                                check the front feet of your frogs to make sure they are the dwarf species & not the clawed
                                                                                                                                species.

                                                                                                                                i have 2 dwarf frogs (1 male & 1 female) and they live peacefully with tetras and angel. they've
                                                                                                                                also lived with some of my male bettas with no problem.

                                                                                                                                --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                > Mine went listed as "Clawed" & I wouldnt exactly classify them as clawed either, but I do have
                                                                                                                                > two african dwarf frogs in my tank (well had 2, one passed away Monday), & they left the shrimp
                                                                                                                                > alone. I dont know if Walmart simply omitted (or I omitted when I read the sign) the word
                                                                                                                                > clawed or there are 2 different species. Mine are about an inch long...
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Erin Shoemate <eshoemate@...> wrote:Are African Dwarf Clawed Frogs small enough to live
                                                                                                                                > happily with ghost
                                                                                                                                > shrimp and not try to eat them?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > ~Erin
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if
                                                                                                                                > changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re:
                                                                                                                                > old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10326 From: jason stone Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
                                                                                                                                On 4/13/05, cynthia brennemann <brennewoman@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > S'not such a crazy vision...there are ponds that stay warm due to waste
                                                                                                                                > heat being pumped into them up north, why not a similar thing in the
                                                                                                                                > backyard? You could do it with wood burning heat and pipes, too.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                Wood burning would certainly bring out the fire department fast. I am
                                                                                                                                in way to urban of an environment for that. I thought of an indoor
                                                                                                                                sump that is heated by titanium heaters that pump out to the outside
                                                                                                                                with perhaps the heaters being driven by batteries that are charged by
                                                                                                                                PV and/or solar water heating that is the primary source of warmth.
                                                                                                                                These are still very much ideas... dunno if I will ever do them...
                                                                                                                                we'll see. :)

                                                                                                                                -jason
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10327 From: Rachel Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: algae infestation
                                                                                                                                in my 5.5 gal tank algae is taking over. the algae-fix isnt quite up
                                                                                                                                to the job, i was wondering if it would be a bad idea to put an algae
                                                                                                                                eater in. i dont know what kind. the only thing i m concerned about
                                                                                                                                would be the algae eater and my betta. any opinions wud b appreciated.
                                                                                                                                i could go home and get my algae scraper, but that wont keep it away.
                                                                                                                                i suppose.

                                                                                                                                thanks!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10328 From: paul helms Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                any that bred in my tank were eaten by catfish....i
                                                                                                                                still have the big one though...some day i will take a
                                                                                                                                pic
                                                                                                                                --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > Paul, I was really surprised they were so
                                                                                                                                > cheap....really neat looking too. Have yours had
                                                                                                                                > babies that lived as well? I am thinking they will
                                                                                                                                > be the last thing I add sense they feed on the
                                                                                                                                > bottom. Oh I am getting ready in a second to post my
                                                                                                                                > new numbers. I really hope you check them out. I
                                                                                                                                > need advice on what to do next. Thanks, Evita
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:i have them!
                                                                                                                                > they are cheap, because they are usually
                                                                                                                                > sol as live food. they are non aggressive, and do
                                                                                                                                > an
                                                                                                                                > excellent job of cleaning. they are only supposed
                                                                                                                                > to
                                                                                                                                > live 6 months, but i have a 2 year old one in my
                                                                                                                                > tank.
                                                                                                                                > all in all they are great
                                                                                                                                > --- Jade Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > I was out yesterday with the kids buying a pool
                                                                                                                                > for
                                                                                                                                > > the yard. Anyway
                                                                                                                                > > while out we saw some ghost shrimp. I read last
                                                                                                                                > > night they were ok for
                                                                                                                                > > the community tank as long as the fish were
                                                                                                                                > smaller
                                                                                                                                > > like the neons and
                                                                                                                                > > guppies. They were so cute and only 28 cents a
                                                                                                                                > > piece. I found them on
                                                                                                                                > > line for 48 cents a piece. I read they are good
                                                                                                                                > at
                                                                                                                                > > eating left over
                                                                                                                                > > food that hits the bottom and they recommended one
                                                                                                                                > > ghost per gallon. I
                                                                                                                                > > was wondering if anyone has them and can tell me
                                                                                                                                > > anything about them.
                                                                                                                                > > They were so interesting and cute in their own
                                                                                                                                > > shrimp way. Evita
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10329 From: J G Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                ok, now that we've figured out the difference between
                                                                                                                                clawed & "unclawed" a funner question... male &
                                                                                                                                female differneces??


                                                                                                                                --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > from what i understand, there are 2 species: african
                                                                                                                                > dwarf frogs, whose front feet are webbed,
                                                                                                                                > they stay small and tend to be peaceful. then there
                                                                                                                                > are african clawed frogs whose front feet are
                                                                                                                                > not webbed, tend to get very large (like the size of
                                                                                                                                > a person's hand) and will eat anything they
                                                                                                                                > can fit in their mouths - including any fish unlucky
                                                                                                                                > enough to be near them when they're hungry!!!
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > check the front feet of your frogs to make sure they
                                                                                                                                > are the dwarf species & not the clawed
                                                                                                                                > species.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > i have 2 dwarf frogs (1 male & 1 female) and they
                                                                                                                                > live peacefully with tetras and angel. they've
                                                                                                                                > also lived with some of my male bettas with no
                                                                                                                                > problem.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > Mine went listed as "Clawed" & I wouldnt exactly
                                                                                                                                > classify them as clawed either, but I do have
                                                                                                                                > > two african dwarf frogs in my tank (well had 2,
                                                                                                                                > one passed away Monday), & they left the shrimp
                                                                                                                                > > alone. I dont know if Walmart simply omitted (or
                                                                                                                                > I omitted when I read the sign) the word
                                                                                                                                > > clawed or there are 2 different species. Mine are
                                                                                                                                > about an inch long...
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Erin Shoemate <eshoemate@...> wrote:Are
                                                                                                                                > African Dwarf Clawed Frogs small enough to live
                                                                                                                                > > happily with ghost
                                                                                                                                > > shrimp and not try to eat them?
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > ~Erin
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                                                > when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                > that is not important to the reply and if
                                                                                                                                > > changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                                > the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re:
                                                                                                                                > > old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for
                                                                                                                                > your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
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                                                                                                                                > to:
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                                                                                                                                > >
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                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10330 From: paul helms Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: need a settlement on a dispute
                                                                                                                                i am hoping that there is a botanist or biologist in
                                                                                                                                here that can answer a technical question for me. my
                                                                                                                                friend and i are disagreeing on plants. i argue that
                                                                                                                                some plants are better at consuming excess phosphates
                                                                                                                                in the water and that some are better consumers of
                                                                                                                                nitrates in teh water. my friend insists that all
                                                                                                                                plants consume phosphate and nitrate at the same
                                                                                                                                ration, but at different rates. so he is saying that
                                                                                                                                phosphate and nitrate levels will fall in an equal
                                                                                                                                ration with plants, and that there are no plants that
                                                                                                                                consume nitrate or phosphate faster than others. my
                                                                                                                                example was that i said string algae appears when
                                                                                                                                phosphate levels are high, and will drop them fairly
                                                                                                                                quickly, while doing very little to the nitrate
                                                                                                                                levels, where macro algaes consume nitrate rapidly and
                                                                                                                                do relatively little to the amount of phsophate in teh
                                                                                                                                aquarium? any one know for sure?



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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10331 From: Anne Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: algae infestation
                                                                                                                                Hi, Sorry to hear about the algae, it can be a pain.
                                                                                                                                What kind of algae is it? I have a beta in with cories
                                                                                                                                in a 10gal. that was really getting alot of brown
                                                                                                                                algae. I bought a couple of ottos and within 3 days,
                                                                                                                                they had cleaned up the tank. Hard working little
                                                                                                                                guys, but kinda fragile at first. I think you could
                                                                                                                                probably get one of these little guys although they
                                                                                                                                usually say 1 otto to 10 gals. Mine get along ok with
                                                                                                                                the beta.
                                                                                                                                Anne

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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10332 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                I have 1 african dwarf frog in my community tank with the ghost shrimp
                                                                                                                                and no problems so far.


                                                                                                                                > Are African Dwarf Clawed Frogs small enough to live happily with ghost
                                                                                                                                > shrimp and not try to eat them?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > ~Erin
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10333 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                Yup there are two different ones. I didn't know that when I first
                                                                                                                                purchased 2. One grew so fast it could of ate the smaller one. So I
                                                                                                                                looked online and realized I had a african dwarf and a albino african
                                                                                                                                clawed. The clawed is alone now because he had one of my large danios
                                                                                                                                in his mouth one day.


                                                                                                                                > from what i understand, there are 2 species
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10334 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                If I remember correctly the female has a point sticking out inbetween
                                                                                                                                her legs and the male doesn't. Backwards I know. And now I'm gonna go
                                                                                                                                check and make sure I'm right.


                                                                                                                                > ok, now that we've figured out the difference between
                                                                                                                                > clawed & "unclawed" a funner question... male &
                                                                                                                                > female differneces??
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10335 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                Also on the albino african clawed frog a mature male when wanting to
                                                                                                                                mate gets dirty hands! His hands turn black and look dirty. Mine does
                                                                                                                                this it's cool looking.

                                                                                                                                > ok, now that we've figured out the difference between
                                                                                                                                > clawed & "unclawed" a funner question... male &
                                                                                                                                > female differneces??
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10336 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/13/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                From what I can find the male does has some what of a point but not as
                                                                                                                                long as the female.

                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, J G <sir_grubs47@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > ok, now that we've figured out the difference between
                                                                                                                                > clawed & "unclawed" a funner question... male &
                                                                                                                                > female differneces??
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10337 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
                                                                                                                                heh...I didn't mean free burning...there are wood burning furnaces, and
                                                                                                                                outdoor pumphouses available from places like Lehmans. The fire is
                                                                                                                                inside a large structure, with the pipes and water pump, and can be
                                                                                                                                used to heat houses, water, etc... There's very little smoke, even.

                                                                                                                                > Wood burning would certainly bring out the fire department fast. I am
                                                                                                                                > in way to urban of an environment for that. I thought of an indoor
                                                                                                                                > sump that is heated by titanium heaters that pump out to the outside
                                                                                                                                > with perhaps the heaters being driven by batteries that are charged by
                                                                                                                                > PV and/or solar water heating that is the primary source of warmth.
                                                                                                                                > These are still very much ideas... dunno if I will ever do them...
                                                                                                                                > we'll see. :)
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > -jason
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10338 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need a settlement on a dispute
                                                                                                                                I;m not a biologist, but i do know plants...and plants absorb different
                                                                                                                                elements in soil and water at vastly different rates. Not just
                                                                                                                                phosphates and nitrogen, but other, trace elements as well. This goes
                                                                                                                                for water plants as well as land plants. Generally the plants that
                                                                                                                                store nutrients in bulbs or thick, rhizomatous roots, don't absorb
                                                                                                                                nitrogen quite as efficiently as the plants that are mostly leaf and
                                                                                                                                stem.
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10339 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Love the Leafy Seadragon
                                                                                                                                I miss going to the aquarium in Omaha and watching them swim...such
                                                                                                                                georgeous creatures. Makes me want to own a gi-normous salt water tank.
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10340 From: jason stone Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
                                                                                                                                On 4/14/05, cynthia brennemann <brennewoman@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > heh...I didn't mean free burning...there are wood burning furnaces, and
                                                                                                                                > outdoor pumphouses available from places like Lehmans. The fire is
                                                                                                                                > inside a large structure, with the pipes and water pump, and can be
                                                                                                                                > used to heat houses, water, etc... There's very little smoke, even.

                                                                                                                                Oh, cool! I will read up on it. Thanks!

                                                                                                                                -jason
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10341 From: harry perry Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Love the Leafy SeadragonSmall SW
                                                                                                                                Their is a sea horse group I belong to they are keeping dwarf seahorses in 10 gal tanks with foam filters. Not reg. seahorses, but dwarfs and pygmies. They have been doing this for years. I don't know how big a seadragon gets.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Harry

                                                                                                                                cynthia brennemann <brennewoman@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                I miss going to the aquarium in Omaha and watching them swim...such
                                                                                                                                georgeous creatures.  Makes me want to own a gi-normous salt water tank.





                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10342 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
                                                                                                                                In a message dated 4/14/2005 9:30:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, brennewoman@... writes:

                                                                                                                                heh...I didn't mean free burning...there are wood burning furnaces, and
                                                                                                                                outdoor pumphouses available from places like Lehmans.  The fire is
                                                                                                                                inside a large structure, with the pipes and water pump, and can be
                                                                                                                                used to heat houses, water, etc...  There's very little smoke, even.
                                                                                                                                The area Jason lives in is very strict on any wood buring.  The next county North of his, Marin county,  does not allow any new wood buring stoves, fireplaces etc. to be installed into new homes.  They also do not allow gas powered leaf blowers and last I heard they are creating restrictions on current wood burning stoves and fireplaces.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Mike
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10343 From: ophiophthalmos Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: "Rainbow Crabs"
                                                                                                                                I bought a crab from a local pet shop which they billed as an aquatic
                                                                                                                                freshwater crab. They sold it as a "Patriot Crab" - blue body, red
                                                                                                                                legs and white bottom.

                                                                                                                                After taking the critter home, I did a serach on the net and found out
                                                                                                                                it is really a Rainbow crab, a land crab, genus Cardisoma. Most of
                                                                                                                                the websites are in German or some Eastern European Language.

                                                                                                                                Should this animal have access to frsh, brakish or fresh water? I
                                                                                                                                have it in an aquarium with a deep sand base and a container of fresh
                                                                                                                                water and a sunlamp. It burrows into the sand, comes out peridoically
                                                                                                                                and wets itself in the water, and has eaten algae and cut up fruit.

                                                                                                                                Any advice would be appreciated.

                                                                                                                                Its a shame so many pet shops have employees and owners who are either
                                                                                                                                a) ignorant, or b) deliberately deceptive.
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10344 From: The Doctor Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Love the Leafy SeadragonSmall SW
                                                                                                                                I've seen several at a local aquarium... They are something like 12-15"
                                                                                                                                full adult size. Like the other guys said, you need a REALLY LARGE tank to
                                                                                                                                support of group of them.

                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                From: "harry perry" <harryfisherman@...>
                                                                                                                                To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 9:37 AM
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Love the Leafy SeadragonSmall SW


                                                                                                                                > Their is a sea horse group I belong to they are keeping dwarf seahorses in
                                                                                                                                > 10 gal tanks with foam filters. Not reg. seahorses, but dwarfs and
                                                                                                                                > pygmies. They have been doing this for years. I don't know how big a
                                                                                                                                > seadragon gets.
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10345 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: "Rainbow Crabs"
                                                                                                                                can you post pics of it?

                                                                                                                                --- ophiophthalmos <tomjean@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I bought a crab from a local pet shop which they billed as an aquatic
                                                                                                                                > freshwater crab. They sold it as a "Patriot Crab" - blue body, red
                                                                                                                                > legs and white bottom.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > After taking the critter home, I did a serach on the net and found out
                                                                                                                                > it is really a Rainbow crab, a land crab, genus Cardisoma. Most of
                                                                                                                                > the websites are in German or some Eastern European Language.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Should this animal have access to frsh, brakish or fresh water? I
                                                                                                                                > have it in an aquarium with a deep sand base and a container of fresh
                                                                                                                                > water and a sunlamp. It burrows into the sand, comes out peridoically
                                                                                                                                > and wets itself in the water, and has eaten algae and cut up fruit.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Any advice would be appreciated.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Its a shame so many pet shops have employees and owners who are either
                                                                                                                                > a) ignorant, or b) deliberately deceptive.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10346 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                look at your frogs' posteriors. the males have a distinctive white bump right there between their
                                                                                                                                back legs. females tend to be larger than males and may be lighter-colored, too, than the males.

                                                                                                                                --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                > ok, now that we've figured out the difference between
                                                                                                                                > clawed & "unclawed" a funner question... male &
                                                                                                                                > female differneces??
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > > from what i understand, there are 2 species: african
                                                                                                                                > > dwarf frogs, whose front feet are webbed,
                                                                                                                                > > they stay small and tend to be peaceful. then there
                                                                                                                                > > are african clawed frogs whose front feet are
                                                                                                                                > > not webbed, tend to get very large (like the size of
                                                                                                                                > > a person's hand) and will eat anything they
                                                                                                                                > > can fit in their mouths - including any fish unlucky
                                                                                                                                > > enough to be near them when they're hungry!!!
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > check the front feet of your frogs to make sure they
                                                                                                                                > > are the dwarf species & not the clawed
                                                                                                                                > > species.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > i have 2 dwarf frogs (1 male & 1 female) and they
                                                                                                                                > > live peacefully with tetras and angel. they've
                                                                                                                                > > also lived with some of my male bettas with no
                                                                                                                                > > problem.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > > Mine went listed as "Clawed" & I wouldnt exactly
                                                                                                                                > > classify them as clawed either, but I do have
                                                                                                                                > > > two african dwarf frogs in my tank (well had 2,
                                                                                                                                > > one passed away Monday), & they left the shrimp
                                                                                                                                > > > alone. I dont know if Walmart simply omitted (or
                                                                                                                                > > I omitted when I read the sign) the word
                                                                                                                                > > > clawed or there are 2 different species. Mine are
                                                                                                                                > > about an inch long...
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > Erin Shoemate <eshoemate@...> wrote:Are
                                                                                                                                > > African Dwarf Clawed Frogs small enough to live
                                                                                                                                > > > happily with ghost
                                                                                                                                > > > shrimp and not try to eat them?
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > ~Erin
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                                                > > when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > > > .
                                                                                                                                > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                > > that is not important to the reply and if
                                                                                                                                > > > changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                                > > the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re:
                                                                                                                                > > > old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for
                                                                                                                                > > your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                                                                                                                                > > to:
                                                                                                                                > > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                                                                                                                                > > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                                                > > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources
                                                                                                                                > > site!
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
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                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10347 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: algae infestation
                                                                                                                                try an oto cat. they are great algae eaters and stay small. i think only 1 though in such a small
                                                                                                                                tank.

                                                                                                                                --- Rachel <star9crystal@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > in my 5.5 gal tank algae is taking over. the algae-fix isnt quite up
                                                                                                                                > to the job, i was wondering if it would be a bad idea to put an algae
                                                                                                                                > eater in. i dont know what kind. the only thing i m concerned about
                                                                                                                                > would be the algae eater and my betta. any opinions wud b appreciated.
                                                                                                                                > i could go home and get my algae scraper, but that wont keep it away.
                                                                                                                                > i suppose.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > thanks!
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10348 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ack! Windfall
                                                                                                                                if it's a violet goby, aren't they brackish?

                                                                                                                                --- jason stone <jasonstone@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                > On 4/13/05, cynthia brennemann <brennewoman@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Well, the guy wants us to take the dragonfish, too...so...what can you
                                                                                                                                > > tell me about a dragonfish? he say's it's agressive, so we'll have to
                                                                                                                                > > put larger fish in there with it, I guess...
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > By DragonFish, does he mean arowana? If so, a 55g won't hold it for
                                                                                                                                > long. All arowana get big, like clean water and will eat whatever
                                                                                                                                > they can manage to cram in their mouths.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > -jason
                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10349 From: Rachel Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: algae infestation
                                                                                                                                it's a vivid green color and i dont mind it on the rock formation,
                                                                                                                                but i do mind terribly that its on the walls of my tank. its a cute
                                                                                                                                contrast with my pink rock. au natural. i just called my local pet
                                                                                                                                shop, they may very well be coming in tomorrow. so as soon as i get
                                                                                                                                them ill take before and after pictures ^_^

                                                                                                                                thanks!

                                                                                                                                Rachel

                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Anne <md_gustoby@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > Hi, Sorry to hear about the algae, it can be a pain.
                                                                                                                                > What kind of algae is it? I have a beta in with cories
                                                                                                                                > in a 10gal. that was really getting alot of brown
                                                                                                                                > algae. I bought a couple of ottos and within 3 days,
                                                                                                                                > they had cleaned up the tank. Hard working little
                                                                                                                                > guys, but kinda fragile at first. I think you could
                                                                                                                                > probably get one of these little guys although they
                                                                                                                                > usually say 1 otto to 10 gals. Mine get along ok with
                                                                                                                                > the beta.
                                                                                                                                > Anne
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10350 From: ophiophthalmos Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: "Rainbow Crabs"
                                                                                                                                I just downloaded a picture of one from the website
                                                                                                                                http://www.shrimpcrabsandcrayfish.co.uk/Shrimp.htm?
                                                                                                                                landcrabs.htm~mainFrame

                                                                                                                                Its not my crab but mine looks like it. (I don't have a digital
                                                                                                                                camera or scanner).









                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > can you post pics of it?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > --- ophiophthalmos <tomjean@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > I bought a crab from a local pet shop which they billed as an
                                                                                                                                aquatic
                                                                                                                                > > freshwater crab. They sold it as a "Patriot Crab" - blue body,
                                                                                                                                red
                                                                                                                                > > legs and white bottom.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > After taking the critter home, I did a serach on the net and
                                                                                                                                found out
                                                                                                                                > > it is really a Rainbow crab, a land crab, genus Cardisoma. Most
                                                                                                                                of
                                                                                                                                > > the websites are in German or some Eastern European Language.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Should this animal have access to frsh, brakish or fresh water?
                                                                                                                                I
                                                                                                                                > > have it in an aquarium with a deep sand base and a container of
                                                                                                                                fresh
                                                                                                                                > > water and a sunlamp. It burrows into the sand, comes out
                                                                                                                                peridoically
                                                                                                                                > > and wets itself in the water, and has eaten algae and cut up
                                                                                                                                fruit.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Any advice would be appreciated.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Its a shame so many pet shops have employees and owners who are
                                                                                                                                either
                                                                                                                                > > a) ignorant, or b) deliberately deceptive.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10351 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: "Rainbow Crabs"
                                                                                                                                this site says saline or brackish
                                                                                                                                http://www.easyinsects.co.uk/landcrabs/rainbow-crabs/

                                                                                                                                --- ophiophthalmos <tomjean@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I just downloaded a picture of one from the website
                                                                                                                                > http://www.shrimpcrabsandcrayfish.co.uk/Shrimp.htm?
                                                                                                                                > landcrabs.htm~mainFrame
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Its not my crab but mine looks like it. (I don't have a digital
                                                                                                                                > camera or scanner).
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                > <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > > can you post pics of it?
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > --- ophiophthalmos <tomjean@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > I bought a crab from a local pet shop which they billed as an
                                                                                                                                > aquatic
                                                                                                                                > > > freshwater crab. They sold it as a "Patriot Crab" - blue body,
                                                                                                                                > red
                                                                                                                                > > > legs and white bottom.
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > After taking the critter home, I did a serach on the net and
                                                                                                                                > found out
                                                                                                                                > > > it is really a Rainbow crab, a land crab, genus Cardisoma. Most
                                                                                                                                > of
                                                                                                                                > > > the websites are in German or some Eastern European Language.
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > Should this animal have access to frsh, brakish or fresh water?
                                                                                                                                > I
                                                                                                                                > > > have it in an aquarium with a deep sand base and a container of
                                                                                                                                > fresh
                                                                                                                                > > > water and a sunlamp. It burrows into the sand, comes out
                                                                                                                                > peridoically
                                                                                                                                > > > and wets itself in the water, and has eaten algae and cut up
                                                                                                                                > fruit.
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > Any advice would be appreciated.
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > Its a shame so many pet shops have employees and owners who are
                                                                                                                                > either
                                                                                                                                > > > a) ignorant, or b) deliberately deceptive.
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10352 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Violet Goby
                                                                                                                                My violet goby is very peaceful.  I have him in a freshwater tank and he's fine.  I have guppies, zebra danios, cories, frogs, snails and a couple of tetras and he doesn't bother anyone.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Angela
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                if it's a violet goby, aren't they brackish?

                                                                                                                                --- jason stone <jasonstone@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                > On 4/13/05, cynthia brennemann <brennewoman@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Well, the guy wants us to take the dragonfish, too...so...what can you
                                                                                                                                > > tell me about a dragonfish?  he say's it's agressive, so we'll have to
                                                                                                                                > > put larger fish in there with it, I guess...
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > By DragonFish, does he mean arowana?  If so, a 55g won't hold it for
                                                                                                                                > long.  All arowana get big, like clean water and will eat whatever
                                                                                                                                > they can manage to cram in their mouths.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > -jason
                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!



                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10353 From: worship_hedvvwig Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: to cure velvet
                                                                                                                                my clown loach is dying! i recently (3 weeks ago) removed all my fish
                                                                                                                                and changed my substrate to backyard soil-hoping that my plants would
                                                                                                                                benefit more from it... the fish were put back into their own tank
                                                                                                                                after everything was ready and all- and soon after my 2 clown loaches
                                                                                                                                were covered in velvet- which is my fault- anyway, i tried catching
                                                                                                                                them to treat them- but could only catch one- and it ended up passing on-

                                                                                                                                so-- to cure my last loach-- i poured in some coppersafe, raised
                                                                                                                                the temperature--- to maybe 85 or something- and darkened the tank
                                                                                                                                completely. its been about 30 hours since i darkened the tank and
                                                                                                                                tomorrow i'll uncover it....
                                                                                                                                what im trying to ask is--- does this method really work? should i
                                                                                                                                just give up now and turn my lights back on to prevent the browning of
                                                                                                                                my plants? OR should i wait a while longer and unveil the tank to a
                                                                                                                                velvet free community? what would you do??
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10354 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need a settlement on a dispute
                                                                                                                                Is it possible to get Phosphate test kits, i have a nitrate test kit but no
                                                                                                                                phosphate test kit,

                                                                                                                                is this somthing i should buy to aid in diagnostics?

                                                                                                                                =Nick

                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 1:52 PM
                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] need a settlement on a dispute
                                                                                                                                > ... my example was that i said string algae appears when
                                                                                                                                > phosphate levels are high, and will drop them fairly
                                                                                                                                > quickly, while doing very little to the nitrate
                                                                                                                                > levels, where macro algaes consume nitrate rapidly and
                                                                                                                                > do relatively little to the amount of phsophate in teh
                                                                                                                                > aquarium? any one know for sure?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10355 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP! Pls
                                                                                                                                When you say briefly do you mean just dip it in and out or more to my real
                                                                                                                                question can i leave them in there for 3 to five minutes whilst cleaning
                                                                                                                                other stuff?

                                                                                                                                your experience would be great.

                                                                                                                                =Nick



                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                From: "cynthia brennemann" <brennewoman@...>
                                                                                                                                To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 7:14 AM
                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! Pls


                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Pam, when I am bringing new plants into my tank, I first immerse them
                                                                                                                                > in a bowl of water and wash thoroughly, then dip briefly in a bowl of
                                                                                                                                > cheap vodka, then rinse in clear water again.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > So far, so good.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >> Would also like to know how to disinfect a plant without killing it.
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >> HappyFishkeeping
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >> Pam
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10356 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP! Pls
                                                                                                                                Ehhhh, most plants don't mind a brief dip, but five minutes is going to
                                                                                                                                kill sensitive plants. Dormants bulb should be okay, though. I dunk,
                                                                                                                                swish, remove.

                                                                                                                                > When you say briefly do you mean just dip it in and out or more to my
                                                                                                                                real
                                                                                                                                > question can i leave them in there for 3 to five minutes whilst
                                                                                                                                cleaning
                                                                                                                                > other stuff?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > your experience would be great.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > =Nick
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10357 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Windfall
                                                                                                                                I back up the comment too, MEN ARE ALWAYS RIGHT, for obvious reasons
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                = Nick
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                > No need to end the relationship, but the man is always
                                                                                                                                right. 
                                                                                                                                > Notice my name is Patrick, not Patricia. :) 
                                                                                                                                >Patrick,
                                                                                                                                an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10358 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP! Pls
                                                                                                                                Thanks Cynthia,

                                                                                                                                I'll buy some new plants soon so will try it then.

                                                                                                                                =Nick



                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                From: "cynthia brennemann" <brennewoman@...>
                                                                                                                                To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 12:12 PM
                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! Pls


                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Ehhhh, most plants don't mind a brief dip, but five minutes is going to
                                                                                                                                > kill sensitive plants. Dormants bulb should be okay, though. I dunk,
                                                                                                                                > swish, remove.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >> When you say briefly do you mean just dip it in and out or more to my
                                                                                                                                > real
                                                                                                                                >> question can i leave them in there for 3 to five minutes whilst
                                                                                                                                > cleaning
                                                                                                                                >> other stuff?
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >> your experience would be great.
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >> =Nick
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10359 From: ophiophthalmos Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: "Rainbow Crabs"
                                                                                                                                Thank you VERY much for that link!!!!



                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > this site says saline or brackish
                                                                                                                                > http://www.easyinsects.co.uk/landcrabs/rainbow-crabs/
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10360 From: J G Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                cool... next time Mr. Hopper is visible I'll make
                                                                                                                                sure to check.... Might have to change his name -
                                                                                                                                hehe :)


                                                                                                                                --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > look at your frogs' posteriors. the males have a
                                                                                                                                > distinctive white bump right there between their
                                                                                                                                > back legs. females tend to be larger than males and
                                                                                                                                > may be lighter-colored, too, than the males.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > ok, now that we've figured out the difference
                                                                                                                                > between
                                                                                                                                > > clawed & "unclawed" a funner question... male &
                                                                                                                                > > female differneces??
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                                                > > > from what i understand, there are 2 species:
                                                                                                                                > african
                                                                                                                                > > > dwarf frogs, whose front feet are webbed,
                                                                                                                                > > > they stay small and tend to be peaceful. then
                                                                                                                                > there
                                                                                                                                > > > are african clawed frogs whose front feet are
                                                                                                                                > > > not webbed, tend to get very large (like the
                                                                                                                                > size of
                                                                                                                                > > > a person's hand) and will eat anything they
                                                                                                                                > > > can fit in their mouths - including any fish
                                                                                                                                > unlucky
                                                                                                                                > > > enough to be near them when they're hungry!!!
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > check the front feet of your frogs to make sure
                                                                                                                                > they
                                                                                                                                > > > are the dwarf species & not the clawed
                                                                                                                                > > > species.
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > i have 2 dwarf frogs (1 male & 1 female) and
                                                                                                                                > they
                                                                                                                                > > > live peacefully with tetras and angel. they've
                                                                                                                                > > > also lived with some of my male bettas with no
                                                                                                                                > > > problem.
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > Mine went listed as "Clawed" & I wouldnt
                                                                                                                                > exactly
                                                                                                                                > > > classify them as clawed either, but I do have
                                                                                                                                > > > > two african dwarf frogs in my tank (well had
                                                                                                                                > 2,
                                                                                                                                > > > one passed away Monday), & they left the shrimp
                                                                                                                                > > > > alone. I dont know if Walmart simply omitted
                                                                                                                                > (or
                                                                                                                                > > > I omitted when I read the sign) the word
                                                                                                                                > > > > clawed or there are 2 different species. Mine
                                                                                                                                > are
                                                                                                                                > > > about an inch long...
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > Erin Shoemate <eshoemate@...> wrote:Are
                                                                                                                                > > > African Dwarf Clawed Frogs small enough to live
                                                                                                                                > > > > happily with ghost
                                                                                                                                > > > > shrimp and not try to eat them?
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > ~Erin
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > Please delete this line and everything below
                                                                                                                                > it
                                                                                                                                > > > when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > > > > .
                                                                                                                                > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all
                                                                                                                                > text
                                                                                                                                > > > that is not important to the reply and if
                                                                                                                                > > > > changing the topic of the original message
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                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an
                                                                                                                                > email
                                                                                                                                > > > to:
                                                                                                                                > > > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                > > > >
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                                                                                                                                > > > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                > > > >
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                                                                                                                                > > > site!
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                                                                                                                                > > >
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10361 From: paul helms Date: 4/14/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need a settlement on a dispute
                                                                                                                                yes you can buy phosphate test kits....10-13 bucks

                                                                                                                                --- Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > Is it possible to get Phosphate test kits, i have a
                                                                                                                                > nitrate test kit but no
                                                                                                                                > phosphate test kit,
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > is this somthing i should buy to aid in diagnostics?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > =Nick
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                > From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                > Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 1:52 PM
                                                                                                                                > Subject: [AquaticLife] need a settlement on a
                                                                                                                                > dispute
                                                                                                                                > > ... my example was that i said string algae
                                                                                                                                > appears when
                                                                                                                                > > phosphate levels are high, and will drop them
                                                                                                                                > fairly
                                                                                                                                > > quickly, while doing very little to the nitrate
                                                                                                                                > > levels, where macro algaes consume nitrate rapidly
                                                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                                                > > do relatively little to the amount of phsophate in
                                                                                                                                > teh
                                                                                                                                > > aquarium? any one know for sure?
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                >



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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10362 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: algae infestation

                                                                                                                                Rachel,

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                You may be able get a couple of oto cats in there but then they cannot discriminate between algae on the glass and on the rocks.

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                You get magnetic glass cleaners that can wipe off the algae from the inside without getting the hands wet. The mag float ones are the best as of you lose contact, it does not sink to the bottom but floats.

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                If you have no live plants and want to get rid of the algae, a very ideal product is there called sotching oxydator: www.oxydator.de . I don’t know if it is easily available where you are or not and the mini version will be perfect for a 5.5 gallon tank. This uses a ceramic head that diffuses hydrogen peroxide slowly in the tank water that inhibits any algae (or plant matter) and oxidizes it. You could also try adding 1ml of 3.5% WV solution of Hydrogen peroxide in the tank once every week and see if it makes a difference. 1ml in 5.5 gal is perfectly harmless to fish and bacteria and does not need to be removed by a water change ASAP unless you have live plants.

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                From: Rachel [mailto:star9crystal@...]
                                                                                                                                Sent: 14 April 2005 20:40
                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: algae infestation

                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                it's a vivid green color and i dont mind it on the rock formation,
                                                                                                                                but i do mind terribly that its on the walls of my tank. its a cute
                                                                                                                                contrast with my pink rock. au natural. i just called my local pet
                                                                                                                                shop, they may very well be coming in tomorrow. so as soon as i get
                                                                                                                                them ill take before and after pictures ^_^

                                                                                                                                thanks!

                                                                                                                                Rachel

                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , Anne <md_gustoby@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > Hi, Sorry to hear about the algae, it can be a pain.
                                                                                                                                > What kind of algae is it? I have a beta in with cories
                                                                                                                                > in a 10gal. that was really getting alot of brown
                                                                                                                                > algae. I bought a couple of ottos and within 3 days,
                                                                                                                                > they had cleaned up the tank. Hard working little
                                                                                                                                > guys, but kinda fragile at first. I think you could
                                                                                                                                > probably get one of these little guys although they
                                                                                                                                > usually say 1 otto to 10 gals. Mine get along ok with
                                                                                                                                > the beta.
                                                                                                                                > Anne
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10363 From: Evita Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Windfall
                                                                                                                                Actually it is more like MEN ALWAY HAVE TO THINK THEY ARE RIGHT.  Evita

                                                                                                                                Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                I back up the comment too, MEN ARE ALWAYS RIGHT, for obvious reasons
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                = Nick
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                > No need to end the relationship, but the man is always right. 
                                                                                                                                > Notice my name is Patrick, not Patricia. :) 
                                                                                                                                >Patrick, an American Fish Guy.


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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10364 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: OT - Windfall

                                                                                                                                Errr. Slight correction: Its women who think “MEN ARE ALLWAYS WRONG”

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Evita
                                                                                                                                Sent: 15 April 2005 11:51
                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Windfall

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Actually it is more like MEN ALWAY HAVE TO THINK THEY ARE RIGHT.  Evita

                                                                                                                                Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                I back up the comment too, MEN ARE ALWAYS RIGHT, for obvious reasons

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                = Nick

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                > No need to end the relationship, but the man is always right. 

                                                                                                                                > Notice my name is Patrick, not Patricia. :) 

                                                                                                                                >Patrick, an American Fish Guy.



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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10365 From: harry perry Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: OT - Windfall/ Who's always right , men or women.?
                                                                                                                                After being married for 38 years I have found that intelligent women let the man think he is always right and do it their way anyhow. The intelligent man will keep his mouth shut and realize he is being shown some respect. The secret to a long releationship is called "duck and weave"
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Harry

                                                                                                                                Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                Errr. Slight correction: Its women who think �MEN ARE ALLWAYS WRONG�

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Evita
                                                                                                                                Sent: 15 April 2005 11:51
                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Windfall

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Actually it is more like MEN ALWAY HAVE TO THINK THEY ARE RIGHT.  Evita

                                                                                                                                Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                I back up the comment too, MEN ARE ALWAYS RIGHT, for obvious reasons

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                = Nick

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                > No need to end the relationship, but the man is always right. 

                                                                                                                                > Notice my name is Patrick, not Patricia. :) 

                                                                                                                                >Patrick, an American Fish Guy.



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                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10366 From: Evita Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: OT - Windfall
                                                                                                                                Ha! You prove my point.  Evita

                                                                                                                                Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                Errr. Slight correction: Its women who think �MEN ARE ALLWAYS WRONG�

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Evita
                                                                                                                                Sent: 15 April 2005 11:51
                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Windfall

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Actually it is more like MEN ALWAY HAVE TO THINK THEY ARE RIGHT.  Evita

                                                                                                                                Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                I back up the comment too, MEN ARE ALWAYS RIGHT, for obvious reasons

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                = Nick

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                > No need to end the relationship, but the man is always right. 

                                                                                                                                > Notice my name is Patrick, not Patricia. :) 

                                                                                                                                >Patrick, an American Fish Guy.



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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10367 From: Evita Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: OT - Windfall/ Who's always right , men or women.?
                                                                                                                                You are OK Harry.  No wonder you have been married 38 years.  Smiles to you and your wife. I call it the "Dance" Evita

                                                                                                                                harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                After being married for 38 years I have found that intelligent women let the man think he is always right and do it their way anyhow. The intelligent man will keep his mouth shut and realize he is being shown some respect. The secret to a long releationship is called "duck and weave"
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Harry

                                                                                                                                Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                Errr. Slight correction: Its women who think �MEN ARE ALLWAYS WRONG�

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Evita
                                                                                                                                Sent: 15 April 2005 11:51
                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Windfall

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Actually it is more like MEN ALWAY HAVE TO THINK THEY ARE RIGHT.  Evita

                                                                                                                                Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                I back up the comment too, MEN ARE ALWAYS RIGHT, for obvious reasons

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                = Nick

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                > No need to end the relationship, but the man is always right. 

                                                                                                                                > Notice my name is Patrick, not Patricia. :) 

                                                                                                                                >Patrick, an American Fish Guy.



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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10368 From: Amalthea Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: OT - Windfall
                                                                                                                                I think it's actually "whomever owns the yappy, not housebroken dog is
                                                                                                                                always wrong, be they male or female."
                                                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                                                http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                                                Custom Dreadfalls, Creepy Toys, and Much, Much More...
                                                                                                                                On Apr 15, 2005, at 12:49 PM, Evita wrote:

                                                                                                                                > Ha! You prove my point.  Evita
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Errr. Slight correction: Its women who think “MEN ARE ALLWAYS WRONG”
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                > On Behalf Of Evita
                                                                                                                                > Sent: 15 April 2005 11:51
                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Windfall
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Actually it is more like MEN ALWAY HAVE TO THINK THEY ARE RIGHT.  Evita
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I back up the comment too, MEN ARE ALWAYS RIGHT, for obvious reasons
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > = Nick
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > No need to end the relationship, but the man is always right. 
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > Notice my name is Patrick, not Patricia. :) 
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > >Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > .
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                                                                                                                                > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
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                                                                                                                                > Make Yahoo! your home page
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                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                > .
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10369 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: OT - Windfall/ Who's always right , men or women.?
                                                                                                                                i've only been married for 2 years but i know that men & women both think they're always right. as
                                                                                                                                long as you allow each other to think that then you're both happy! =)

                                                                                                                                --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                > You are OK Harry. No wonder you have been married 38 years. Smiles to you and your wife. I
                                                                                                                                > call it the "Dance" Evita
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:After being married for 38 years I have found that
                                                                                                                                > intelligent women let the man think he is always right and do it their way anyhow. The
                                                                                                                                > intelligent man will keep his mouth shut and realize he is being shown some respect. The secret
                                                                                                                                > to a long releationship is called "duck and weave"
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Harry
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
                                                                                                                                > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
                                                                                                                                > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
                                                                                                                                > Errr. Slight correction: Its women who think �MEN ARE ALLWAYS WRONG�
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Evita
                                                                                                                                > Sent: 15 April 2005 11:51
                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Windfall
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Actually it is more like MEN ALWAY HAVE TO THINK THEY ARE RIGHT. Evita
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I back up the comment too, MEN ARE ALWAYS RIGHT, for obvious reasons
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > = Nick
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > No need to end the relationship, but the man is always right.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > Notice my name is Patrick, not Patricia. :)
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > >Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > .
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                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10370 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                i named mine kermit & toady. but i had to switch the names and name the male kermit & the female
                                                                                                                                toady after i found out i have one of each =)

                                                                                                                                --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                > cool... next time Mr. Hopper is visible I'll make
                                                                                                                                > sure to check.... Might have to change his name -
                                                                                                                                > hehe :)
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > > look at your frogs' posteriors. the males have a
                                                                                                                                > > distinctive white bump right there between their
                                                                                                                                > > back legs. females tend to be larger than males and
                                                                                                                                > > may be lighter-colored, too, than the males.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > > ok, now that we've figured out the difference
                                                                                                                                > > between
                                                                                                                                > > > clawed & "unclawed" a funner question... male &
                                                                                                                                > > > female differneces??
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                > > > > from what i understand, there are 2 species:
                                                                                                                                > > african
                                                                                                                                > > > > dwarf frogs, whose front feet are webbed,
                                                                                                                                > > > > they stay small and tend to be peaceful. then
                                                                                                                                > > there
                                                                                                                                > > > > are african clawed frogs whose front feet are
                                                                                                                                > > > > not webbed, tend to get very large (like the
                                                                                                                                > > size of
                                                                                                                                > > > > a person's hand) and will eat anything they
                                                                                                                                > > > > can fit in their mouths - including any fish
                                                                                                                                > > unlucky
                                                                                                                                > > > > enough to be near them when they're hungry!!!
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > check the front feet of your frogs to make sure
                                                                                                                                > > they
                                                                                                                                > > > > are the dwarf species & not the clawed
                                                                                                                                > > > > species.
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > i have 2 dwarf frogs (1 male & 1 female) and
                                                                                                                                > > they
                                                                                                                                > > > > live peacefully with tetras and angel. they've
                                                                                                                                > > > > also lived with some of my male bettas with no
                                                                                                                                > > > > problem.
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > > Mine went listed as "Clawed" & I wouldnt
                                                                                                                                > > exactly
                                                                                                                                > > > > classify them as clawed either, but I do have
                                                                                                                                > > > > > two african dwarf frogs in my tank (well had
                                                                                                                                > > 2,
                                                                                                                                > > > > one passed away Monday), & they left the shrimp
                                                                                                                                > > > > > alone. I dont know if Walmart simply omitted
                                                                                                                                > > (or
                                                                                                                                > > > > I omitted when I read the sign) the word
                                                                                                                                > > > > > clawed or there are 2 different species. Mine
                                                                                                                                > > are
                                                                                                                                > > > > about an inch long...
                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > > Erin Shoemate <eshoemate@...> wrote:Are
                                                                                                                                > > > > African Dwarf Clawed Frogs small enough to live
                                                                                                                                > > > > > happily with ghost
                                                                                                                                > > > > > shrimp and not try to eat them?
                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > > ~Erin
                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > > Please delete this line and everything below
                                                                                                                                > > it
                                                                                                                                > > > > when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > > > > > .
                                                                                                                                > > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all
                                                                                                                                > > text
                                                                                                                                > > > > that is not important to the reply and if
                                                                                                                                > > > > > changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                > > modify
                                                                                                                                > > > > the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re:
                                                                                                                                > > > > > old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for
                                                                                                                                > > > > your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an
                                                                                                                                > > email
                                                                                                                                > > > > to:
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                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                                                                                                                                > > > > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                > > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                > > > > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources
                                                                                                                                > > > > site!
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                > >
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                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10371 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: "Rainbow Crabs"
                                                                                                                                no problem, hope it helps.

                                                                                                                                --- ophiophthalmos <tomjean@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Thank you VERY much for that link!!!!
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                > <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > > this site says saline or brackish
                                                                                                                                > > http://www.easyinsects.co.uk/landcrabs/rainbow-crabs/
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10372 From: vreugde@aol.com Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: OT - Windfall
                                                                                                                                Now, we're getting into philosophical matters.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                If it's women who think that men are always wrong....well, are the women wrong?
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                And, if it's men who think that women are always wrong....well, does that mean that men, being always wrong, are also wrong when they think that women are always wrong?
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                So that the women then are right, and when men think that women are always wrong, are men only confirming what women know to be true all along, namely, that men are always wrong?
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                But, then, the greatest philosophical question I've seen in a long time presents itself to me:
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                If a man is alone in a forest, and he says something...
                                                                                                                                And there's no woman around to hear what He says...
                                                                                                                                Is the man still wrong?
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Rev. Martin VanderWal
                                                                                                                                Redlands, CA
                                                                                                                                p.s. Just to give this post a redeeming feature, let me ask this question: I've been thinking about changing my 20 gal high (FW) to hold a single, larger occupant.  What would you recommend, if anything?  I'm also willing to consider recommendations against anything of the sort.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                In a message dated 4/15/2005 4:23:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, nimmat4@... writes:

                                                                                                                                Errr. Slight correction: Its women who think “MEN ARE ALLWAYS WRONG”

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10373 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: OT - Windfall/ Who's always right , men or women.?
                                                                                                                                Now this is very true :) Strangely, I have also been married for 2 yrs now
                                                                                                                                ;) maybe by the time we reach 38 yrs of married life, we will be thinking
                                                                                                                                like Harry :D

                                                                                                                                Nim


                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                Behalf Of Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                Sent: 15 April 2005 18:37
                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - Windfall/ Who's always right , men or
                                                                                                                                women.?


                                                                                                                                i've only been married for 2 years but i know that men & women both think
                                                                                                                                they're always right. as
                                                                                                                                long as you allow each other to think that then you're both happy! =)

                                                                                                                                --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                > You are OK Harry. No wonder you have been married 38 years. Smiles to
                                                                                                                                you and your wife. I
                                                                                                                                > call it the "Dance" Evita
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:After being married for 38
                                                                                                                                years I have found that
                                                                                                                                > intelligent women let the man think he is always right and do it their way
                                                                                                                                anyhow. The
                                                                                                                                > intelligent man will keep his mouth shut and realize he is being shown
                                                                                                                                some respect. The secret
                                                                                                                                > to a long releationship is called "duck and weave"
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Harry
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
                                                                                                                                > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
                                                                                                                                > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
                                                                                                                                > Errr. Slight correction: Its women who think MEN ARE ALLWAYS WRONG
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                Behalf Of Evita
                                                                                                                                > Sent: 15 April 2005 11:51
                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Windfall
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Actually it is more like MEN ALWAY HAVE TO THINK THEY ARE RIGHT. Evita
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I back up the comment too, MEN ARE ALWAYS RIGHT, for obvious reasons
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > = Nick
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > No need to end the relationship, but the man is always right.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > Notice my name is Patrick, not Patricia. :)
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > >Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                the reply and if
                                                                                                                                > changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e.
                                                                                                                                "new subject (was re:
                                                                                                                                > old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                > Make Yahoo! your home page
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                the reply and if
                                                                                                                                > changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e.
                                                                                                                                "new subject (was re:
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                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                the reply and if
                                                                                                                                > changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e.
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                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!




                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10374 From: joequality1980 Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: mixing cichlids w/large gouramis
                                                                                                                                I'm thinking about consolidating some tanks:

                                                                                                                                Moving my cichlids--2 young neolamprologus hecqui (shell-dwellers), 1
                                                                                                                                young mbuna--into a larger 29 gal tank that already has the following:

                                                                                                                                -2 gouramis, both about 4" (kissing and gold) and both somewhat
                                                                                                                                aggressive, especially the kissing one-- bad disposition
                                                                                                                                -4 corys
                                                                                                                                -1 pleco

                                                                                                                                Will there be much conflict? The cichlids are smaller than the
                                                                                                                                gouramis, but quite fierce. The kissing g thinks he's cock of the
                                                                                                                                walk, but might be put in his place by the hecquis. Also, will the
                                                                                                                                hecquis harass the corys if they get too close?
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10375 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: mixing cichlids w/large gouramis

                                                                                                                                Not a very good idea Joe. Even though gouramis are aggressive fish but no where compared to African cichlids.

                                                                                                                                Corys are defense less against mbuna aggression too.

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of joequality1980
                                                                                                                                Sent: 15 April 2005 19:08
                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] mixing cichlids w/large gouramis

                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                I'm thinking about consolidating some tanks:

                                                                                                                                Moving my cichlids--2 young neolamprologus hecqui (shell-dwellers), 1
                                                                                                                                young mbuna--into a larger 29 gal tank that already has the following:

                                                                                                                                -2 gouramis, both about 4" (kissing and gold) and both somewhat
                                                                                                                                aggressive, especially the kissing one-- bad disposition
                                                                                                                                -4 corys
                                                                                                                                -1 pleco

                                                                                                                                Will there be much conflict? The cichlids are smaller than the
                                                                                                                                gouramis, but quite fierce. The kissing g thinks he's cock of the
                                                                                                                                walk, but might be put in his place by the hecquis. Also, will the
                                                                                                                                hecquis harass the corys if they get too close?





                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10376 From: J G Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                kermit... hehe... thats a cute name :)

                                                                                                                                Thought you said you named him kermit & today ...
                                                                                                                                like you were going to say what happend today... got
                                                                                                                                all confused when I saw the period :)


                                                                                                                                --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                > i named mine kermit & toady. but i had to switch the
                                                                                                                                > names and name the male kermit & the female
                                                                                                                                > toady after i found out i have one of each =)
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > cool... next time Mr. Hopper is visible I'll make
                                                                                                                                > > sure to check.... Might have to change his name -
                                                                                                                                > > hehe :)
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                                                > > > look at your frogs' posteriors. the males have a
                                                                                                                                > > > distinctive white bump right there between their
                                                                                                                                > > > back legs. females tend to be larger than males
                                                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                                                > > > may be lighter-colored, too, than the males.
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > ok, now that we've figured out the difference
                                                                                                                                > > > between
                                                                                                                                > > > > clawed & "unclawed" a funner question... male
                                                                                                                                > &
                                                                                                                                > > > > female differneces??
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > --- Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                > <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                > > > > > from what i understand, there are 2 species:
                                                                                                                                > > > african
                                                                                                                                > > > > > dwarf frogs, whose front feet are webbed,
                                                                                                                                > > > > > they stay small and tend to be peaceful.
                                                                                                                                > then
                                                                                                                                > > > there
                                                                                                                                > > > > > are african clawed frogs whose front feet
                                                                                                                                > are
                                                                                                                                > > > > > not webbed, tend to get very large (like the
                                                                                                                                > > > size of
                                                                                                                                > > > > > a person's hand) and will eat anything they
                                                                                                                                > > > > > can fit in their mouths - including any fish
                                                                                                                                > > > unlucky
                                                                                                                                > > > > > enough to be near them when they're
                                                                                                                                > hungry!!!
                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > > check the front feet of your frogs to make
                                                                                                                                > sure
                                                                                                                                > > > they
                                                                                                                                > > > > > are the dwarf species & not the clawed
                                                                                                                                > > > > > species.
                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > > i have 2 dwarf frogs (1 male & 1 female) and
                                                                                                                                > > > they
                                                                                                                                > > > > > live peacefully with tetras and angel.
                                                                                                                                > they've
                                                                                                                                > > > > > also lived with some of my male bettas with
                                                                                                                                > no
                                                                                                                                > > > > > problem.
                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > > --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > > > Mine went listed as "Clawed" & I wouldnt
                                                                                                                                > > > exactly
                                                                                                                                > > > > > classify them as clawed either, but I do
                                                                                                                                > have
                                                                                                                                > > > > > > two african dwarf frogs in my tank (well
                                                                                                                                > had
                                                                                                                                > > > 2,
                                                                                                                                > > > > > one passed away Monday), & they left the
                                                                                                                                > shrimp
                                                                                                                                > > > > > > alone. I dont know if Walmart simply
                                                                                                                                > omitted
                                                                                                                                > > > (or
                                                                                                                                > > > > > I omitted when I read the sign) the word
                                                                                                                                > > > > > > clawed or there are 2 different species.
                                                                                                                                > Mine
                                                                                                                                > > > are
                                                                                                                                > > > > > about an inch long...
                                                                                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > > > Erin Shoemate <eshoemate@...>
                                                                                                                                > wrote:Are
                                                                                                                                > > > > > African Dwarf Clawed Frogs small enough to
                                                                                                                                > live
                                                                                                                                > > > > > > happily with ghost
                                                                                                                                > > > > > > shrimp and not try to eat them?
                                                                                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > > > ~Erin
                                                                                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > > > Please delete this line and everything
                                                                                                                                > below
                                                                                                                                > > > it
                                                                                                                                > > > > > when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > > > > > > .
                                                                                                                                > > > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete
                                                                                                                                > all
                                                                                                                                > > > text
                                                                                                                                > > > > > that is not important to the reply and if
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                                                                                                                                > > > > > the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was
                                                                                                                                > re:
                                                                                                                                > > > > > > old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance
                                                                                                                                > for
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                                                                                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > > >
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                                                                                                                                > > > > > to:
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10377 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: OT - Windfall
                                                                                                                                --- vreugde@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                do you like aggressive or non-aggressive fish?

                                                                                                                                i personally like gouramis. i have 1 flame dwarf male in my 10. maybe you could have a larger
                                                                                                                                gourami species in your 20?

                                                                                                                                > p.s. Just to give this post a redeeming feature, let me ask this question:
                                                                                                                                > I've been thinking about changing my 20 gal high (FW) to hold a single, larger
                                                                                                                                > occupant. What would you recommend, if anything? I'm also willing to consider
                                                                                                                                > recommendations against anything of the sort.
                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10378 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                sorry for the slight confusion. yep, i named my 2 adf's before i sexed them. oops =)

                                                                                                                                --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                > kermit... hehe... thats a cute name :)
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Thought you said you named him kermit & today ...
                                                                                                                                > like you were going to say what happend today... got
                                                                                                                                > all confused when I saw the period :)
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10379 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: OT - Windfall/ Who's always right , men or women.?
                                                                                                                                my grandparents were married for almost 62 years and i know that each and every day of their
                                                                                                                                marriage my grandfather let my grandmother think she was always right. she certainly told him
                                                                                                                                every day that she was! she still thinks she's always right and probably tells him even though
                                                                                                                                he's gone now. i think it was one of the main reasons their marriage was so successful - he let
                                                                                                                                her think whatever the heck she wanted & it made her happy. so she in turn let him do his guy
                                                                                                                                stuff because she was happy 'knowing' she was always right.

                                                                                                                                of course, once he got old enough to need a hearing aid, he could turn it off w/o her knowing and
                                                                                                                                that probably saved his sanity =). my grandpa in heaven is probably laughing as he's reading this
                                                                                                                                right now.

                                                                                                                                --- Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                > Now this is very true :) Strangely, I have also been married for 2 yrs now
                                                                                                                                > ;) maybe by the time we reach 38 yrs of married life, we will be thinking
                                                                                                                                > like Harry :D
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                > Behalf Of Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                > Sent: 15 April 2005 18:37
                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - Windfall/ Who's always right , men or
                                                                                                                                > women.?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > i've only been married for 2 years but i know that men & women both think
                                                                                                                                > they're always right. as
                                                                                                                                > long as you allow each other to think that then you're both happy! =)
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > You are OK Harry. No wonder you have been married 38 years. Smiles to
                                                                                                                                > you and your wife. I
                                                                                                                                > > call it the "Dance" Evita
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:After being married for 38
                                                                                                                                > years I have found that
                                                                                                                                > > intelligent women let the man think he is always right and do it their way
                                                                                                                                > anyhow. The
                                                                                                                                > > intelligent man will keep his mouth shut and realize he is being shown
                                                                                                                                > some respect. The secret
                                                                                                                                > > to a long releationship is called "duck and weave"
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Harry
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
                                                                                                                                > > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
                                                                                                                                > > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
                                                                                                                                > > Errr. Slight correction: Its women who think MEN ARE ALLWAYS WRONG
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Nim
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                > Behalf Of Evita
                                                                                                                                > > Sent: 15 April 2005 11:51
                                                                                                                                > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Windfall
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Actually it is more like MEN ALWAY HAVE TO THINK THEY ARE RIGHT. Evita
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > I back up the comment too, MEN ARE ALWAYS RIGHT, for obvious reasons
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > = Nick
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > > No need to end the relationship, but the man is always right.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > > Notice my name is Patrick, not Patricia. :)
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > >Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                > the reply and if
                                                                                                                                > > changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e.
                                                                                                                                > "new subject (was re:
                                                                                                                                > > old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                > the reply and if
                                                                                                                                > > changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e.
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                                                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                > the reply and if
                                                                                                                                > > changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e.
                                                                                                                                > "new subject (was re:
                                                                                                                                > > old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                > >
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                                                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                > the reply and if
                                                                                                                                > > changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e.
                                                                                                                                > "new subject (was re:
                                                                                                                                > > old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                > >
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                                                                                                                                > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
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                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
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                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10380 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Brisbane (Australia) Pet and Animal Expo
                                                                                                                                Hi,

                                                                                                                                I'm going down there today or tomorrow and taking my digicamera,
                                                                                                                                heres a couple of links


                                                                                                                                Official webpage, about three quarters of the way down is the part
                                                                                                                                on fish and aquariums and 200+ entrents in the Betta Contest.

                                                                                                                                http://www.emsaust.com.au/brisbane2005.html



                                                                                                                                Contest commitie home page
                                                                                                                                http://www.betta-australis.com/showinfo.html



                                                                                                                                If you want pics of something particular please reply quickly!
                                                                                                                                =Nick
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10381 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: 20Gallon high suggestions (was OT - Windfall)
                                                                                                                                I'd suggest an angelfish  for your 20high hopefully with the room you will get a decent sized fish that will be not so active but will be seen.

                                                                                                                                rob
                                                                                                                                Indiana


                                                                                                                                In a message dated 4/15/2005 1:01:00 PM US Eastern Standard Time, vreugde@... writes:


                                                                                                                                I've been thinking about changing my 20 gal high (FW) to hold a single, larger occupant.  What would you recommend, if anything?  I'm also willing to consider recommendations against anything of the sort.


                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10382 From: paul helms Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: 20Gallon high suggestions (was OT - Windfall)
                                                                                                                                you could try an adult discus with live planst as
                                                                                                                                well. they are very mellow and bright
                                                                                                                                --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                > I'd suggest an angelfish for your 20high hopefully
                                                                                                                                > with the room you will
                                                                                                                                > get a decent sized fish that will be not so active
                                                                                                                                > but will be seen.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > rob
                                                                                                                                > Indiana
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > In a message dated 4/15/2005 1:01:00 PM US Eastern
                                                                                                                                > Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                > vreugde@... writes:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > I've been thinking about changing my 20 gal high
                                                                                                                                > (FW) to hold a single,
                                                                                                                                > > larger occupant. What would you recommend, if
                                                                                                                                > anything? I'm also willing to
                                                                                                                                > > consider recommendations against anything of the
                                                                                                                                > sort.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >



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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10383 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Blood Parrots acting STRANGE

                                                                                                                                Came home and my BPs are kissing.  It’s been 5 minutes and they are still going at it.  They will quit sucking face long enough to swim in a circle together then they go at it again.  WHAT are they doing?

                                                                                                                                They are for sure not fighting at all because they keep going back for more and neither is trying to get away from the other.  Lol  This is funny to watch.

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10384 From: The Doctor Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Blood Parrots acting STRANGE
                                                                                                                                Sounds like MATING behavior to me!

                                                                                                                                The pressing of lips can be a test of strength between males for dominance,
                                                                                                                                or it can be a similar test as a prelude to mating. Swimming in circles is
                                                                                                                                definitely mating related in my Cichlid (& other fish) experience.


                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                From: "Dane & Leslie Moore" <amjmail@...>
                                                                                                                                To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>;
                                                                                                                                <naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 6:23 PM
                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots acting STRANGE


                                                                                                                                > Came home and my BPs are kissing. It's been 5 minutes and they are
                                                                                                                                > still going at it. They will quit sucking face long enough to swim in a
                                                                                                                                > circle together then they go at it again. WHAT are they doing?
                                                                                                                                > They are for sure not fighting at all because they keep going back for
                                                                                                                                > more and neither is trying to get away from the other. Lol This is
                                                                                                                                > funny to watch.
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10385 From: Amalthea Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Blood Parrots acting STRANGE
                                                                                                                                it sounds like a mating ritual, my bubblegums do it all the time before
                                                                                                                                nesting. sometimes it's how the males fight though, they lock jaws and
                                                                                                                                keep at each other for a long while and it looks a bit like kissing.
                                                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                                                Get em' while they're cheap!
                                                                                                                                Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the
                                                                                                                                Basement....
                                                                                                                                http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
                                                                                                                                On Apr 15, 2005, at 9:23 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                                                                > Came home and my BPs are kissing.  It’s been 5 minutes and they are
                                                                                                                                > still going at it.  They will quit sucking face long enough to swim in
                                                                                                                                > a circle together then they go at it again.  WHAT are they doing?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > They are for sure not fighting at all because they keep going back for
                                                                                                                                > more and neither is trying to get away from the other.  Lol  This is
                                                                                                                                > funny to watch.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                                                                > Service.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10386 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                I have like 20 ghost shrimp in with some neon's, but they are not getting along! I thought GS were peaceful critters-what could I put with them!
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10387 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Blood Parrots acting STRANGE
                                                                                                                                Since the lip lock is lasting so long I'd think it was  2 males having a show of strength. But it could be mating ritual.
                                                                                                                                Watch them for awhile, if its a show of strength this could progress into real fight. If its part of the mating ritual you might also see digging of pits in the substrate, head butting, nipping. If one fish looks to me getting the worst of it, you might seperate them or add a divider to your tank.

                                                                                                                                good luck
                                                                                                                                rob
                                                                                                                                Indiana

                                                                                                                                In a message dated 4/15/2005 8:35:56 PM US Eastern Standard Time, doctor34@... writes:


                                                                                                                                It's been 5 minutes and they are
                                                                                                                                > still going at it.  They will quit sucking face long enough to swim in a
                                                                                                                                > circle together then they go at it again.  WHAT are they doing?
                                                                                                                                > They are for sure not fighting at all because they keep going back for
                                                                                                                                > more and neither is trying to get away from the other.  Lol  This is
                                                                                                                                > funny to watch.


                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10388 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                Subject: Blood Parrots * Pics
                                                                                                                                Attachments :

                                                                                                                                  Here are pictures of what they were doing.  They were actually locked at the lips but my camera was too slow to get that.

                                                                                                                                  Now the smaller one has a scale hanging off his side.  I don’t have to treat that do I?  And is it typical for one sex to burrow and not the other?  The large one burrows constantly, then runs anyone off that nears his hole.

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10389 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Blood Parrots * Pics
                                                                                                                                  Beautiful parrots!
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10390 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Blood Parrots acting STRANGE

                                                                                                                                  I do not think it’s a fight at all.  They were rubbing all over each other and kept going back for more.  And the larger one has no problems showing this tank who’s boss. 

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of The Doctor
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 8:32 PM
                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots acting STRANGE

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  Sounds like MATING behavior to me!

                                                                                                                                  The pressing of lips can be a test of strength between males for dominance,
                                                                                                                                  or it can be a similar test as a prelude to mating.  Swimming in circles is
                                                                                                                                  definitely mating related in my Cichlid (& other fish) experience.


                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  From: "Dane & Leslie Moore" <amjmail@...>
                                                                                                                                  To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>;
                                                                                                                                  <naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 6:23 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots acting STRANGE


                                                                                                                                  > Came home and my BPs are kissing.  It's been 5 minutes and they are
                                                                                                                                  > still going at it.  They will quit sucking face long enough to swim in a
                                                                                                                                  > circle together then they go at it again.  WHAT are they doing?
                                                                                                                                  > They are for sure not fighting at all because they keep going back for
                                                                                                                                  > more and neither is trying to get away from the other.  Lol  This is
                                                                                                                                  > funny to watch.



                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10391 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: HELP quick!!
                                                                                                                                  I have a tank with guppies and some snails and ghost shrimp and a cory
                                                                                                                                  cat (other 2 died). One of my female guppies is dying or something.
                                                                                                                                  She is looking like she's trying to swim really fast in place she is
                                                                                                                                  like wiggling or some wierd looking thing. Any ideas. Tank is been
                                                                                                                                  running for over a year and new additions are about 18 guppy fry just
                                                                                                                                  the other day but not from her.
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10392 From: valbogert01 Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Help Please!! Nitrate Problem
                                                                                                                                  I have had my 10 gallon for a year and this is the first serious water
                                                                                                                                  quality problem I have had. My filter got seriously clogged and backed
                                                                                                                                  up. I did not notice it for a few days. (due to burning the candle at
                                                                                                                                  both ends) One of my endlers disappeared and everyone else stopped
                                                                                                                                  eating. I did a water change Tuesday and a major one tonight. I tested
                                                                                                                                  my Ph it was 7.6. My Nitrates are at 160 ppm. This is the same even
                                                                                                                                  after the water change. My fish are very stressed. Is there anything
                                                                                                                                  that I can do to change these levels? The missing fish ended up dying.
                                                                                                                                  I hope that I dont wake up to more dead fish. Any advice would help

                                                                                                                                  My tank
                                                                                                                                  10 gallon
                                                                                                                                  1 endlers livebearer
                                                                                                                                  2 zebra Danios
                                                                                                                                  3 White Cloud Minnows
                                                                                                                                  2 Oto Cats
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10393 From: harry perry Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Help Please!! Nitrate Problem/ High nitrates.
                                                                                                                                  I would think your filter needs some serious attention. Another water change is in order maybe 50%. The fish will keep dying until the nitrates go down. What is the amonia level. What kind of filter, what maintenance(candle at both ends) did it reverse it's self for lack of maintenance?
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Harry

                                                                                                                                  valbogert01 <valbogert01@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                  I have had my 10 gallon for a year and this is the first serious water
                                                                                                                                  quality problem I have had. My filter got seriously clogged and backed
                                                                                                                                  up. I did not notice it for a few days. (due to burning the candle at
                                                                                                                                  both ends) One of my endlers disappeared and everyone else stopped
                                                                                                                                  eating. I did a water change Tuesday and a major one tonight. I tested
                                                                                                                                  my Ph it was 7.6. My Nitrates are at 160 ppm. This is the same even
                                                                                                                                  after the water change. My fish are very stressed. Is there anything
                                                                                                                                  that I can do to change these levels? The missing fish ended up dying.
                                                                                                                                  I hope that I dont wake up to more dead fish. Any advice would help

                                                                                                                                  My tank
                                                                                                                                  10 gallon
                                                                                                                                  1 endlers livebearer
                                                                                                                                  2 zebra Danios
                                                                                                                                  3 White Cloud Minnows
                                                                                                                                  2 Oto Cats






                                                                                                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                  .
                                                                                                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10394 From: harry perry Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: HELP quick!!/Isolate.
                                                                                                                                  There are literally hundreds of dieases a fish can suffer from. The safest bet is to isolate this fish.  
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Harry

                                                                                                                                  mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                  I have a tank with guppies and some snails and ghost shrimp and a cory
                                                                                                                                  cat (other 2 died). One of my female guppies is dying or something.
                                                                                                                                  She is looking like she's trying to swim really fast in place she is
                                                                                                                                  like wiggling or some wierd looking thing. Any ideas. Tank is been
                                                                                                                                  running for over a year and new additions are about 18 guppy fry just
                                                                                                                                  the other day but not from her.





                                                                                                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                  .
                                                                                                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10395 From: harry perry Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: HELP quick!!/Isolate.
                                                                                                                                  There are literally hundreds of dieases a fish can suffer from. The safest bet is to isolate this fish.  
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Harry

                                                                                                                                  mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                  I have a tank with guppies and some snails and ghost shrimp and a cory
                                                                                                                                  cat (other 2 died). One of my female guppies is dying or something.
                                                                                                                                  She is looking like she's trying to swim really fast in place she is
                                                                                                                                  like wiggling or some wierd looking thing. Any ideas. Tank is been
                                                                                                                                  running for over a year and new additions are about 18 guppy fry just
                                                                                                                                  the other day but not from her.





                                                                                                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                  .
                                                                                                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10396 From: valbogert01 Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Help Please!! Nitrate Problem/ High nitrates.
                                                                                                                                  It is one of those Whisper Filters. I replaced the filter cartridge
                                                                                                                                  and scrubbed out the suction tube. It is working great now. Ammonia is
                                                                                                                                  at .25
                                                                                                                                  I do a water change once a week. I have been lacking lately due to
                                                                                                                                  work. It has been 3 weeks since my normal water change. I have had
                                                                                                                                  flutuations before but nothing like this. The filter sucked up some
                                                                                                                                  plant leaves and proceeded to clog the tube. The cartrige was way
                                                                                                                                  overdue. I admit that. It seems like the water quality has not been
                                                                                                                                  very good since I had a bout of Ich and had to medicate. The nitrates
                                                                                                                                  are becoming a huge problem. Is it my tap that might be adding to it?
                                                                                                                                  I also feed the fish 1-2 times a day with a fast on the weekend. (0nly
                                                                                                                                  for a day or so)
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10397 From: Amalthea Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Blood Parrots * Pics
                                                                                                                                  if only one is burrowing after doing that, and the other is being
                                                                                                                                  chased off, it's likely that they're both males. with parrots, the
                                                                                                                                  males fight with the lip lock you've seen and they also compete with
                                                                                                                                  nest building. the nicer nest gets the female.
                                                                                                                                  if it's just one scale, you don't have to treat it, but keep an eye on
                                                                                                                                  them. if there's not a significant power difference, the weaker one may
                                                                                                                                  not give up and it can escalate.
                                                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                                                  http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                                                  Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                                                                  On Apr 15, 2005, at 10:41 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                                                                  > Here are pictures of what they were doing.  They were actually locked
                                                                                                                                  > at the lips but my camera was too slow to get that.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Now the smaller one has a scale hanging off his side.  I don’t have to
                                                                                                                                  > treat that do I?  And is it typical for one sex to burrow and not the
                                                                                                                                  > other?  The large one burrows constantly, then runs anyone off that
                                                                                                                                  > nears his hole.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > <image.tiff> 
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > <image.tiff> 
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                  > .
                                                                                                                                  > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                  > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                  > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                  > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                  > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                  > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                  > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                  > Service.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10398 From: harry perry Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Help Please!! Nitrate Problem/ High nitrates.
                                                                                                                                  I run Whispers on all my tanks. I just wash the  bag not replace it. However at some point the carbon will become satureated and reverse it's self. Amonia in an established tank should be 0. The balance is upset, possible by the filter. Not the tap water. Try feeding once a day. do another partial water change and let sit for a few days and then test the water again.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Harry 
                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  valbogert01 <valbogert01@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                  It is one of those Whisper Filters. I replaced the filter cartridge
                                                                                                                                  and scrubbed out the suction tube. It is working great now. Ammonia is
                                                                                                                                  at .25
                                                                                                                                  I do a water change once a week. I have been lacking lately due to
                                                                                                                                  work. It has been 3 weeks since my normal water change. I have had
                                                                                                                                  flutuations before but nothing like this. The filter sucked up some
                                                                                                                                  plant leaves and proceeded to clog the tube. The cartrige was way
                                                                                                                                  overdue. I admit that. It seems like the water quality has not been
                                                                                                                                  very good since I had a bout of Ich and had to medicate. The nitrates
                                                                                                                                  are becoming a huge problem. Is it my tap that might be adding to it?
                                                                                                                                  I also feed the fish 1-2 times a day with a fast on the weekend. (0nly
                                                                                                                                  for a day or so)






                                                                                                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                  .
                                                                                                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10399 From: harry perry Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: OT - Windfall/ Who's always right , men or women.?/Valeen
                                                                                                                                  62 years!!!!!!! Good grief. They obviously found "their" secret to success. 
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Harry 
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  my grandparents were married for almost 62 years and i know that each and every day of their
                                                                                                                                  marriage my grandfather let my grandmother think she was always right. she certainly told him
                                                                                                                                  every day that she was! she still thinks she's always right and probably tells him even though
                                                                                                                                  he's gone now. i think it was one of the main reasons their marriage was so successful - he let
                                                                                                                                  her think whatever the heck she wanted & it made her happy. so she in turn let him do his guy
                                                                                                                                  stuff because she was happy 'knowing' she was always right.

                                                                                                                                  of course, once he got old enough to need a hearing aid, he could turn it off w/o her knowing and
                                                                                                                                  that probably saved his sanity =). my grandpa in heaven is probably laughing as he's reading this
                                                                                                                                  right now.

                                                                                                                                  --- Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                  > Now this is very true :) Strangely, I have also been married for 2 yrs now
                                                                                                                                  > ;) maybe by the time we reach 38 yrs of married life, we will be thinking
                                                                                                                                  > like Harry :D
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Nim
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                  > Behalf Of Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                  > Sent: 15 April 2005 18:37
                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - Windfall/ Who's always right , men or
                                                                                                                                  > women.?
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > i've only been married for 2 years but i know that men & women both think
                                                                                                                                  > they're always right. as
                                                                                                                                  > long as you allow each other to think that then you're both happy! =)
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > > You are OK Harry.  No wonder you have been married 38 years.  Smiles to
                                                                                                                                  > you and your wife. I
                                                                                                                                  > > call it the "Dance" Evita
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:After being married for 38
                                                                                                                                  > years I have found that
                                                                                                                                  > > intelligent women let the man think he is always right and do it their way
                                                                                                                                  > anyhow. The
                                                                                                                                  > > intelligent man will keep his mouth shut and realize he is being shown
                                                                                                                                  > some respect. The secret
                                                                                                                                  > > to a long releationship is called "duck and weave"
                                                                                                                                  > > 
                                                                                                                                  > > Harry
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
                                                                                                                                  > > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
                                                                                                                                  > > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
                                                                                                                                  > > Errr. Slight correction: Its women who think MEN ARE ALLWAYS WRONG
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > 
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Nim
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > 
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                  > Behalf Of Evita
                                                                                                                                  > > Sent: 15 April 2005 11:51
                                                                                                                                  > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Windfall
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > 
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Actually it is more like MEN ALWAY HAVE TO THINK THEY ARE RIGHT.  Evita
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > I back up the comment too, MEN ARE ALWAYS RIGHT, for obvious reasons
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > 
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > = Nick
                                                                                                                                  > >
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                                                                                                                                  > > 
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > 
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > No need to end the relationship, but the man is always right.
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > Notice my name is Patrick, not Patricia. :)
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10400 From: butterfly42422002 Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: interesting saltwater fish
                                                                                                                                  Years ago I knew someone with one. It was very young and looked odd.
                                                                                                                                  Over the years got very large 6 - 8 inches tall and grew into his
                                                                                                                                  fins. They are very relaxing to watch. He always reminded me of a
                                                                                                                                  live submarine and he was very calm. It was a unique combo in the
                                                                                                                                  tank because it was in with 2 clowns and a Trigger. The Trigger would
                                                                                                                                  swim all over the tank like a busy little bee but the Bat would just
                                                                                                                                  hang out. It always amazed me that the Trigger did not mess with the
                                                                                                                                  Bat fish.

                                                                                                                                  Tiffany (Rainbow422@...)

                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com,

                                                                                                                                  ---they definitely look different when they mature! kinda like a fw
                                                                                                                                  angel on crack =)
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10401 From: The Doctor Date: 4/15/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Blood Parrots * Pics
                                                                                                                                  As for the running the others off - even the one "he" was fighting with
                                                                                                                                  before?

                                                                                                                                  About the scales hanging... If it's more than superficial (a tiny amount),
                                                                                                                                  and assuming they may go at it again (if they are much like Oscars, they
                                                                                                                                  will), it would be a good idea to treat with something like MelaFix (you can
                                                                                                                                  usually find it at Wal-Mart for about 1/2 what stores like Petco & PetsMart
                                                                                                                                  will sell it for).


                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  From: "Dane & Leslie Moore" <amjmail@...>
                                                                                                                                  To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>;
                                                                                                                                  <naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 7:41 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrots * Pics


                                                                                                                                  > Here are pictures of what they were doing. They were actually locked at
                                                                                                                                  > the lips but my camera was too slow to get that.
                                                                                                                                  > Now the smaller one has a scale hanging off his side. I don't have to
                                                                                                                                  > treat that do I? And is it typical for one sex to burrow and not the
                                                                                                                                  > other? The large one burrows constantly, then runs anyone off that
                                                                                                                                  > nears his hole.
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10402 From: J G Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: a Q on neons
                                                                                                                                  ok, I know neons are schoolers... so I got 4 of them
                                                                                                                                  to keep them happy. I was cleaning up some stuff & I
                                                                                                                                  found my wal-mart recepit from when I got the neons &
                                                                                                                                  I noticed 2 different kinds were listed. I had bought
                                                                                                                                  2 orange ones & a blue one (already had a blue one in
                                                                                                                                  my tank). so my Q is... are the orange & blue ones
                                                                                                                                  really 2 different types of neons? Or maybe it was
                                                                                                                                  just wally worlds way of keeping track of how many of
                                                                                                                                  each color they have in stock... I have noticed often
                                                                                                                                  the two orange and the 2 blue will break off & swim
                                                                                                                                  around together...just wonderin. This is the first
                                                                                                                                  time I've really had anything but bettas so...

                                                                                                                                  BTW found out female bettas & neons dont mix...
                                                                                                                                  unless your planning on serving the bettas lunch...



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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10403 From: J G Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: guppy info
                                                                                                                                  ok... I use to be a betta person... had a bunch of
                                                                                                                                  females in a communal tank & I had a male too (until
                                                                                                                                  my little got me the obsesed with betta award for a
                                                                                                                                  formal gift & got me another male). I unfortunaly
                                                                                                                                  lost all of the females to some kind of sickness one
                                                                                                                                  weekend... I decided to give up on bettas for a little
                                                                                                                                  while, but couldnt give up on fish all together... so
                                                                                                                                  now I have 3 guppies (along with my neons & a couple
                                                                                                                                  others) swimming around my tank... really starting to
                                                                                                                                  get a thing for guppies... I love the different
                                                                                                                                  colors... And they seem to be a little more active
                                                                                                                                  than bettas...

                                                                                                                                  Anyway... being new to any non-betta type of fish
                                                                                                                                  basically, I was wondering if anyone had any guppy
                                                                                                                                  websites they'd like to reccomend to me... Would like
                                                                                                                                  to pick up some more knoweldge on them - ideal living
                                                                                                                                  conditions (temp, etc), sites on guppy sicknesses &
                                                                                                                                  how to cure them, etc... anything on them would be
                                                                                                                                  much appriciated.

                                                                                                                                  thanks
                                                                                                                                  ~J



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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10404 From: wendie Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: FW: [AquaticLife]Eclipse 12
                                                                                                                                  A question about the eclipse 12 filter system. 
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  I notice that it runs very fast at this point... newly set up... an am wondering if there is any way to slow this down or does it slow itself down naturally?  There's such a current in the tank that no self respecting fish could swim in it at present. 
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Wendie
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10405 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Clown loaches question
                                                                                                                                  In captivity you will seldom see a clown loach larger than 8", usually
                                                                                                                                  smaller. In the wild, they grow to about 12". The 6" size is frequently seen
                                                                                                                                  in captivity, but one should be able to get them bigger than that, however,
                                                                                                                                  they do seem to be one of those fish that will not reach their full size
                                                                                                                                  potential in a tank. They are slow growers, both in captivity and in the
                                                                                                                                  wild.

                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                  From: Anne [mailto:md_gustoby@...]
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 10:26 AM
                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Clown loaches question


                                                                                                                                  Thanks Rob, I have a 30 gal. with 2 clown loaches
                                                                                                                                  (2-2.5") and 5 Harlequin Rasboras. A year or so from
                                                                                                                                  now I'm planning on getting a 55gal. which will
                                                                                                                                  eventually be the home of the loaches - the
                                                                                                                                  information you read on the internet and from the lfs
                                                                                                                                  is conflciting. It's hard to know what to do <g> I've
                                                                                                                                  read where the clowns grow very slowly and reach a max
                                                                                                                                  of 6", another article says 12", etc. The lfs guy
                                                                                                                                  told me they reach 5-6" then has a display of a large
                                                                                                                                  clown loach for sale. Natural question. How'd he get
                                                                                                                                  so big if 6" is max. Answer, he wants to sell the
                                                                                                                                  small clowns. Thanks again, I think I will add
                                                                                                                                  another.
                                                                                                                                  Anne


                                                                                                                                  Rob said."The clown loaches can reach sizes over 10
                                                                                                                                  inches. It just takes awhile. 3-5 Clowns under 6"
                                                                                                                                  could easily be kept in a 55 gallon tank 3 three inch
                                                                                                                                  fish could be housed in a 20 gallon tank for
                                                                                                                                  awhile..."
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10406 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: a Q on neons
                                                                                                                                  Grubs, There is only one "kind" (species/variety) of Neon Tetra,
                                                                                                                                  which has an electric blue band down the length of its body, with a
                                                                                                                                  red band beneath this, down the latter half of it body. If you have
                                                                                                                                  two other similar fish, with a fluorescent dark pink (orange?) band
                                                                                                                                  down the length of their bodies, these are called Glo-Lite Tetras.
                                                                                                                                  These are slightly larger. Interesting that the two species will
                                                                                                                                  school at all, but probably due to the fact they are somewhat related
                                                                                                                                  and are looking for more individuals (peferably of their own species)
                                                                                                                                  to school up with. Ray
                                                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, J G <sir_grubs47@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > ok, I know neons are schoolers... so I got 4 of them
                                                                                                                                  > to keep them happy. I was cleaning up some stuff & I
                                                                                                                                  > found my wal-mart recepit from when I got the neons &
                                                                                                                                  > I noticed 2 different kinds were listed. I had bought
                                                                                                                                  > 2 orange ones & a blue one (already had a blue one in
                                                                                                                                  > my tank). so my Q is... are the orange & blue ones
                                                                                                                                  > really 2 different types of neons? Or maybe it was
                                                                                                                                  > just wally worlds way of keeping track of how many of
                                                                                                                                  > each color they have in stock... I have noticed often
                                                                                                                                  > the two orange and the 2 blue will break off & swim
                                                                                                                                  > around together...just wonderin. This is the first
                                                                                                                                  > time I've really had anything but bettas so...
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > BTW found out female bettas & neons dont mix...
                                                                                                                                  > unless your planning on serving the bettas lunch...
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                                                                  > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10407 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Help Please!! Nitrate Problem
                                                                                                                                  Val, As you're probably aware of, 3 weeks is a long time (especially
                                                                                                                                  in your situation) for a tank to go without partial water changes.
                                                                                                                                  Trying to get to the source of the problem, it doesn't seem as if you
                                                                                                                                  have too large a fish load. I am curious as to some other factors;
                                                                                                                                  while you normally feed twice a day (except with weekend fasts) which
                                                                                                                                  is not too often, is there a chance that perhaps you are overfeeding
                                                                                                                                  (one possibility). The clogging of your filter would of course in
                                                                                                                                  itself contribute to your problem, but would take much longer than
                                                                                                                                  several days to become clogged -- more like several weeks, unless
                                                                                                                                  again, you are overfeeding. Ideally, filters should be changed out
                                                                                                                                  at least once a month (preferably cleaned more frequently), if only
                                                                                                                                  for the fact that the carbon becomes exhausted after that time and
                                                                                                                                  needs replacing. If not replaced, the carbon starts releasing its
                                                                                                                                  absorbed impurities back into the aquarium. I hope you changed out
                                                                                                                                  the filter, after making a major water change, after your Ich problem
                                                                                                                                  was solved, as these medications you've used may well have killed off
                                                                                                                                  the nitrifying bacteria. Also, when normally cleaning your filter,
                                                                                                                                  rinse the filter medium in a small bucket of aquarium water, not
                                                                                                                                  under tap water.
                                                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                                                  Now, you do not mention how much you change when doing a water
                                                                                                                                  change, nor do we know what you consider a "major" water change. We
                                                                                                                                  also do not know what your nitrite reading is (probably elevated
                                                                                                                                  also). If doing any appreciable amount of water change, the nitrate
                                                                                                                                  reading would have to come down from 160 (impossible for it to remain
                                                                                                                                  the same), unless you are adding nitrates back in (from tap water, or
                                                                                                                                  overfeeding). By doing small water changes and letting the tank sit
                                                                                                                                  for a few days, then re-testing, isn't going to make much of a
                                                                                                                                  difference. The nitrates are not just going to disappear by
                                                                                                                                  themselves. I presume you do not have live plants in there to take
                                                                                                                                  up any of the nitrates(?). If you do, then you are overfeeding
                                                                                                                                  and/or your gravel needs to be cleaned real bad (as it seems
                                                                                                                                  nutrients are being added to the water), although the problem may all
                                                                                                                                  be coming right back to the filter especially if it was not attended
                                                                                                                                  to after getting rid of the disease. You're going to have to start
                                                                                                                                  making large (50%) water changes every other day for a while (1 to 1
                                                                                                                                  1/2 weeks) until the nitrate reading comes down and keep after your
                                                                                                                                  filter as needed. Proper feeding and live plants, if you don't
                                                                                                                                  already have them, should help. Ray
                                                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "valbogert01" <valbogert01@y...>
                                                                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > I have had my 10 gallon for a year and this is the first serious
                                                                                                                                  water
                                                                                                                                  > quality problem I have had. My filter got seriously clogged and
                                                                                                                                  backed
                                                                                                                                  > up. I did not notice it for a few days. (due to burning the candle
                                                                                                                                  at
                                                                                                                                  > both ends) One of my endlers disappeared and everyone else stopped
                                                                                                                                  > eating. I did a water change Tuesday and a major one tonight. I
                                                                                                                                  tested
                                                                                                                                  > my Ph it was 7.6. My Nitrates are at 160 ppm. This is the same even
                                                                                                                                  > after the water change. My fish are very stressed. Is there
                                                                                                                                  anything
                                                                                                                                  > that I can do to change these levels? The missing fish ended up
                                                                                                                                  dying.
                                                                                                                                  > I hope that I dont wake up to more dead fish. Any advice would help
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > My tank
                                                                                                                                  > 10 gallon
                                                                                                                                  > 1 endlers livebearer
                                                                                                                                  > 2 zebra Danios
                                                                                                                                  > 3 White Cloud Minnows
                                                                                                                                  > 2 Oto Cats
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10408 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: (no subject)

                                                                                                                                  To make a long story short, I purchased a 29 gallon tank with an undergravel filter and Second Nature Whisper 700 air pump and HOT Magnum canister filter from a guy on ebay.  A Melanochromis Dialeptos (dwarf auratus) came with it.  She is the only fish in the tank and the guy said he'd had her for 5 years and never did water changes.  In fact, he hadn't tested the water in years.  I tested the water, the ammonia, nitrites and ph were fine, but the nitrate test turn bright red (160) well before the time for the test was over.  I've been changing out about 5 gallons of water every two weeks, but the nitrates aren't getting better.  Today I vaccuumed the gravel and took out 16 gallons.  What else should I do?  How often and how many gallons need to be changed?  I've never had a UGF, should I vaccuum every time I change water with one of those.

                                                                                                                                  Thanks for your help,

                                                                                                                                  Angela in Richond, VA

                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10409 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: FW: [AquaticLife]Eclipse 12
                                                                                                                                  Wendie once it get  some algae growth on it and some bacteria built up in the filter pad it will slow down. You'd be amazed at what fish can tolerate and or live in.
                                                                                                                                  For now put a decoration in the tank to take the brunt of the water flow this will create some dead spots for your fish if they want them..

                                                                                                                                  rob
                                                                                                                                  Indiana


                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 4/16/2005 8:30:19 AM US Eastern Standard Time, wendieo@... writes:


                                                                                                                                  A question about the eclipse 12 filter system. 


                                                                                                                                  I notice that it runs very fast at this point... newly set up... an am wondering if there is any way to slow this down or does it slow itself down naturally?  There's such a current in the tank that no self respecting fish could swim in it at present. 

                                                                                                                                  Wendie


                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10410 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: guppy info
                                                                                                                                  American Livebearer Association

                                                                                                                                  http://livebearers.org/

                                                                                                                                  there list of links is pretty good and i think you'll find almost everything you need to know


                                                                                                                                  rob
                                                                                                                                  Indiana

                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 4/16/2005 2:28:22 AM US Eastern Standard Time, sir_grubs47@... writes:


                                                                                                                                  Anyway...  being new to any non-betta type of fish
                                                                                                                                  basically, I was wondering if anyone had any guppy
                                                                                                                                  websites they'd like to reccomend to me...  Would like
                                                                                                                                  to pick up some more knoweldge on them - ideal living
                                                                                                                                  conditions (temp, etc), sites on guppy sicknesses &
                                                                                                                                  how to cure them, etc...  anything on them would be
                                                                                                                                  much appriciated.



                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10411 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Planning new tank
                                                                                                                                  Well, since we are getting a new tank, I was hoping for some
                                                                                                                                  input...Will discuss fish do all right with an angel and a couple of
                                                                                                                                  dwarf gourami's? One is gold, one powder blue. And do the gourami's
                                                                                                                                  need a mate of the same type?
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10412 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: guppy info
                                                                                                                                  don't have any infor for you...but I had an interesting thing happen in
                                                                                                                                  my Eldest daughters tank. She has the mated betta pair, the gold
                                                                                                                                  gourami, a whole slew of guppies, two mollies a shark and some cories.
                                                                                                                                  Just recently we noticed that one of the guppy fry is a siamese
                                                                                                                                  guppy...It has part of another fish attached to it that never
                                                                                                                                  developed. REally weird looking. When it was tiny, it just looked
                                                                                                                                  hatchet shaped, but now you can see the tail and fins attached to the
                                                                                                                                  growth at the bottom. Doesnt seem to bother the little thing at
                                                                                                                                  all...so we're leaving it alone.
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10413 From: harry perry Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: guppy info/Rob
                                                                                                                                  A link to knowledge. Thank you.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Harry

                                                                                                                                  FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                  American Livebearer Association

                                                                                                                                  http://livebearers.org/

                                                                                                                                  there list of links is pretty good and i think you'll find almost everything you need to know


                                                                                                                                  rob
                                                                                                                                  Indiana

                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 4/16/2005 2:28:22 AM US Eastern Standard Time, sir_grubs47@... writes:


                                                                                                                                  Anyway...  being new to any non-betta type of fish
                                                                                                                                  basically, I was wondering if anyone had any guppy
                                                                                                                                  websites they'd like to reccomend to me...  Would like
                                                                                                                                  to pick up some more knoweldge on them - ideal living
                                                                                                                                  conditions (temp, etc), sites on guppy sicknesses &
                                                                                                                                  how to cure them, etc...  anything on them would be
                                                                                                                                  much appriciated.





                                                                                                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                  .
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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10414 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Planning new tank
                                                                                                                                  a few problems with those as tankmates..

                                                                                                                                  make sure your new tank is completely cycled before adding the discuss as they are Very sensative to water conditions. If I remember right  there was a discussion on tankmates for discuss on one of the other groups awhile back and Angelfish where not a good tankmate for the Discuss. I think this was a general consensis. The Angels where to aggressive for the Discuss and they picked on them way to much.

                                                                                                                                  I have never heard of gourami being used as tankmates myself but could be a good mix...

                                                                                                                                  Myself I think the perfect Discuss tankmates are corycatfish and Bolivian rams in a well planted tank...but thats me....

                                                                                                                                  rob
                                                                                                                                  Indiana



                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 4/16/2005 10:53:01 AM US Eastern Standard Time, brennewoman@... writes:



                                                                                                                                  Well, since we are getting a new tank, I was hoping for some
                                                                                                                                  input...Will discuss fish do all right with an angel and a couple of
                                                                                                                                  dwarf gourami's?  One is gold, one powder blue.  And do the gourami's
                                                                                                                                  need a mate of the same type?


                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10415 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: (No Subject ) -- High Nitrates
                                                                                                                                  Angela, For now, until you get the nitrates under control, you need to
                                                                                                                                  do more frequent any larger water changes. Changing out 5 gallons of
                                                                                                                                  water (of the 29 gallon tank) is like changing 1/6 of the water, or
                                                                                                                                  about 16 2/3%. This will cut the nitrate reading in the same
                                                                                                                                  proportion, so each water change is bringing it down from 160 to 133.
                                                                                                                                  By the time two weeks go by, its back up to 160 again. You will need
                                                                                                                                  to start doing 50% (15 gallons) water changes every other day, for
                                                                                                                                  about a week and a half (5 large changes) which under ideal conditions
                                                                                                                                  would drop the nitrates to between 5 and 10. You should keep after the
                                                                                                                                  gravel vacuuming, watch the filter and make sure you don't overfeed.
                                                                                                                                  You might consider adding a catfish or two, and some live plants, if
                                                                                                                                  you don't already have them. Keep an eye on the fish however, while
                                                                                                                                  Melanochromis can be aggressive, I believe the female would not be
                                                                                                                                  nearly so, compared to a male. Once you get the nitrates down, you'll
                                                                                                                                  need to do at least weekly water changes of 7 - 10 gallons (1/4 - 1/3
                                                                                                                                  tank). Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > To make a long story short, I purchased a 29 gallon tank with an
                                                                                                                                  undergravel filter and Second Nature Whisper 700 air pump and HOT
                                                                                                                                  Magnum canister filter from a guy on ebay. A Melanochromis Dialeptos
                                                                                                                                  (dwarf auratus) came with it. She is the only fish in the tank and the
                                                                                                                                  guy said he'd had her for 5 years and never did water changes. In
                                                                                                                                  fact, he hadn't tested the water in years. I tested the water, the
                                                                                                                                  ammonia, nitrites and ph were fine, but the nitrate test turn bright
                                                                                                                                  red (160) well before the time for the test was over. I've been
                                                                                                                                  changing out about 5 gallons of water every two weeks, but the nitrates
                                                                                                                                  aren't getting better. Today I vaccuumed the gravel and took out 16
                                                                                                                                  gallons. What else should I do? How often and how many gallons need
                                                                                                                                  to be changed? I've never had a UGF, should I vaccuum every time I
                                                                                                                                  change water with one of those.
                                                                                                                                  > Thanks for your help,
                                                                                                                                  > Angela in Richond, VA
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10416 From: wendie Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: FW: [AquaticLife]Eclipse 12
                                                                                                                                  Thanks.  I've got some plants and caves in there already with another larger cave coming.   I'm adding water from another tank daily to speed up things along with trying Bio-Spira. 
                                                                                                                                  Wendie
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 10:13 AM
                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: FW: [AquaticLife]Eclipse 12

                                                                                                                                  Wendie once it get  some algae growth on it and some bacteria built up in the filter pad it will slow down. You'd be amazed at what fish can tolerate and or live in.
                                                                                                                                  For now put a decoration in the tank to take the brunt of the water flow this will create some dead spots for your fish if they want them..

                                                                                                                                  rob
                                                                                                                                  Indiana


                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 4/16/2005 8:30:19 AM US Eastern Standard Time, wendieo@... writes:


                                                                                                                                  A question about the eclipse 12 filter system. 


                                                                                                                                  I notice that it runs very fast at this point... newly set up... an am wondering if there is any way to slow this down or does it slow itself down naturally?  There's such a current in the tank that no self respecting fish could swim in it at present. 

                                                                                                                                  Wendie




                                                                                                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                  .
                                                                                                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10417 From: Nan Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Clown loaches question
                                                                                                                                  I have Dojos in with my clown loach and they all do fine. But I have
                                                                                                                                  seen them with smaller of the same species and they get along fine, so
                                                                                                                                  I would say yes, you can put smaller clown loaches in with larger ones,
                                                                                                                                  or you can go with another kind of loach. My dojos "cuddle" with my
                                                                                                                                  clown loach at times. They all band together.

                                                                                                                                  ~nan~
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10418 From: Nan Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                  Yes, Ghost Shrimp are wonderful. I have them in my fry tanks (for
                                                                                                                                  betta fry, and paradise fish fry) and they leave them alone. My son
                                                                                                                                  has them in is Goldfish tank, and they all get along (both tanks are 10
                                                                                                                                  gallon). I also have them in my Betta female tank, and am planning to
                                                                                                                                  put them in my 10 gallon tank with a Male Betta. I just make sure I
                                                                                                                                  give them a few places to scurry to should the need arise. Also, keep
                                                                                                                                  in mind to be very careful while carrying them home, they are very
                                                                                                                                  fragile I have found, but they will lay eggs in your gravel, however,
                                                                                                                                  the other fish, should they see them will eat the young, which is just
                                                                                                                                  a good natural live food for them.

                                                                                                                                  ~nan~
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10419 From: Nan Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Female Beta in tank?
                                                                                                                                  I have 7 females in a 10 gallon (some are leaving, so nobody have a
                                                                                                                                  heart attack about the numbers! *LOL*), but I have had 1 in a 35
                                                                                                                                  gallon, then added more and they were fine. They will fuss at
                                                                                                                                  eachother for a bit to decide on the pecking order so to speak, but
                                                                                                                                  other than that no problems. However, since Parrot Fish are exactly
                                                                                                                                  friendly fish, I wouldn't add them to that tank.

                                                                                                                                  ~nan~
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10420 From: Nan Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: HELP! Pls
                                                                                                                                  If it isn't too late, add jungle fungus eliminator after a 100% water
                                                                                                                                  change (or put him in a 10 gallon with a bare bottom with fresh clean
                                                                                                                                  water then add the Jungle Fungus Eliminator) and within 2 days he
                                                                                                                                  should have a huge improvement. It worked with my daughters Betta,
                                                                                                                                  only he was in a 2.5 gallon and I just dropped the tab in (for a 10
                                                                                                                                  gallon) and I figured I might over do it, but he did wonderfully by the
                                                                                                                                  next day. Either we were very, very lucky or JFE is wonderful! Either
                                                                                                                                  way, it is my suggestion.
                                                                                                                                  Good Luck!
                                                                                                                                  ~nan~
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10421 From: yasciti Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: breeding freshwater butterflies
                                                                                                                                  Hi everyone I'm Dino I've just joined. I've been keeping fish for over
                                                                                                                                  11 years now, & I hope you guys can help me. I need as much info.as
                                                                                                                                  you can give on breeding freshwater butterfly fish, especially from
                                                                                                                                  those with some success in this.
                                                                                                                                  All the sites tend to have the same info.

                                                                                                                                  Thanks

                                                                                                                                  All the best always
                                                                                                                                  Dino
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10422 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: HELP quick!!/Isolate.
                                                                                                                                  After I posted this yesterday I saw a big white spot on her tail and
                                                                                                                                  imediatly took her out, she is alive but just laying on the bottom of
                                                                                                                                  the small tank she's in for now.

                                                                                                                                  > There are literally hundreds of dieases a fish can suffer from. The
                                                                                                                                  safest bet is to isolate this fish.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Harry
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > I have a tank with guppies and some snails and ghost shrimp and a cory
                                                                                                                                  > cat (other 2 died). One of my female guppies is dying or something.
                                                                                                                                  > She is looking like she's trying to swim really fast in place she is
                                                                                                                                  > like wiggling or some wierd looking thing. Any ideas. Tank is been
                                                                                                                                  > running for over a year and new additions are about 18 guppy fry just
                                                                                                                                  > the other day but not from her.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                  > .
                                                                                                                                  > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                  important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                  message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                  subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                  > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10423 From: Nan Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: algae infestation
                                                                                                                                  As for algea, I wouldn't suggest a pleco for a 5.5 gallon. I have
                                                                                                                                  made
                                                                                                                                  the mistake of getting one for 2 of my 10 gallons, they are on the
                                                                                                                                  virge of outgrowing them. However, if you were to get a couple of
                                                                                                                                  Maylasian Trumpet Snails, or even a ramshorn (the betta will eat any
                                                                                                                                  eggs that are layed most of the time, or you can take out the
                                                                                                                                  clutches
                                                                                                                                  of eggs all on your own.), or even an Otocinclus Catfish, here is a
                                                                                                                                  website where you can take a look at what they are:

                                                                                                                                  http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=923

                                                                                                                                  I personally would prefer the Octos..they are so peaceful. Good luck!
                                                                                                                                  ~nan~
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10424 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Planning new tank
                                                                                                                                  Okay, so let the tank thoroughly cycle and get really stable before
                                                                                                                                  introducing the discuss...the two gourami in question are really shy
                                                                                                                                  and non-agressive or I wouldn't suggest it. What are some good
                                                                                                                                  companions for discus fish?
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10425 From: harry perry Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: breeding freshwater butterflies
                                                                                                                                  I am assuming Pantodon buchholzi. African butterfly fish. Intolerent of suface fish. Smaller fish will be eaten. A cover of floating plants is important.Ph 6.5,  temp 73-86. To condition a variety of live food is needed. When the eggs are laid they will float to the top and should be removed to another tank. A depth of 6 to 8 inches in the breeding tank.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Harry
                                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                                  yasciti <yasciti@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                  Hi everyone I'm Dino I've just joined. I've been keeping fish for over
                                                                                                                                  11 years now, & I hope you guys can help me. I need as much info.as
                                                                                                                                  you can give on breeding freshwater butterfly fish, especially from
                                                                                                                                  those with some success in this.
                                                                                                                                  All the sites tend to have the same info.

                                                                                                                                  Thanks

                                                                                                                                  All the best always
                                                                                                                                  Dino





                                                                                                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                  .
                                                                                                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10426 From: Nan Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Rachel Re: Algea Infestation
                                                                                                                                  Just a second thought, my sailfin pleco's enjoy fresh cucumber that I
                                                                                                                                  have sliced and put in for my snails, the octo's if you go with that
                                                                                                                                  direction (which I hope you do) might also enjoy some fresh sliced
                                                                                                                                  veggies after they get the algea under control so that they have plenty
                                                                                                                                  to eat. It was just a thought!
                                                                                                                                  ~nan~
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10427 From: Nan Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: guppy info
                                                                                                                                  Here is a group that I belong to, they raise guppys and are always
                                                                                                                                  really helpful and most of the time if you have a question either they
                                                                                                                                  will answer it or give you a website to help you:

                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSFGAgroup

                                                                                                                                  Hope it helps!

                                                                                                                                  ~nan~
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10428 From: paul helms Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: FW: [AquaticLife]Eclipse 12
                                                                                                                                  it is not as fast as you think....fish swim against
                                                                                                                                  rivers, and will swim above/velow need be
                                                                                                                                  --- wendie <wendieo@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > A question about the eclipse 12 filter system.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > I notice that it runs very fast at this point...
                                                                                                                                  > newly set up... an am
                                                                                                                                  > wondering if there is any way to slow this down or
                                                                                                                                  > does it slow itself down
                                                                                                                                  > naturally? There's such a current in the tank that
                                                                                                                                  > no self respecting fish
                                                                                                                                  > could swim in it at present.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Wendie
                                                                                                                                  >



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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10429 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: FW: [AquaticLife]Eclipse 12
                                                                                                                                  I wanted to say that but couldn't find the right words without sounding MEAN and degrading...2 things this hobby doesn't need.

                                                                                                                                  Great use of words wtfmorlok

                                                                                                                                  rob
                                                                                                                                  Indiana



                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 4/16/2005 8:10:54 PM US Eastern Standard Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:


                                                                                                                                  it is not as fast as you think....fish swim against
                                                                                                                                  rivers, and will swim above/velow need be


                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10430 From: paul helms Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: FW: [AquaticLife]Eclipse 12
                                                                                                                                  is that meant as sarcasm? or serious?
                                                                                                                                  --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > I wanted to say that but couldn't find the right
                                                                                                                                  > words without sounding MEAN
                                                                                                                                  > and degrading...2 things this hobby doesn't need.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Great use of words wtfmorlok
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > rob
                                                                                                                                  > Indiana
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > In a message dated 4/16/2005 8:10:54 PM US Eastern
                                                                                                                                  > Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                  > wtfmorlok@... writes:
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > > it is not as fast as you think....fish swim
                                                                                                                                  > against
                                                                                                                                  > > rivers, and will swim above/velow need be
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >



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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10431 From: Antonios Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: The International Marine Aquarium Conference
                                                                                                                                  Hi,
                                                                                                                                  Did you know that IMAC (the International Marine Aquarium
                                                                                                                                  Conference) is only about 2 months away? IMAC will be held in
                                                                                                                                  Chicago June 24, 25 and 26th at the Crowne Plaza Hotel. It features
                                                                                                                                  speakers like:
                                                                                                                                  Dr. Martin Belli
                                                                                                                                  Eric Borneman
                                                                                                                                  Anthony Calfo
                                                                                                                                  Bob Fenner
                                                                                                                                  Jay Hemdal
                                                                                                                                  Rocky Herman
                                                                                                                                  Dr. Tim Hovanec
                                                                                                                                  Michael Janes
                                                                                                                                  Dr. Frank Marini
                                                                                                                                  Martin Moe
                                                                                                                                  Barry Neigut
                                                                                                                                  Michael Del Prete
                                                                                                                                  Steven Pro
                                                                                                                                  Dr. Tom Sandercock
                                                                                                                                  Gregory Schiemer
                                                                                                                                  Henry C. Schultz
                                                                                                                                  Dr. Ronald Shimek (2 different presentations) Sandra Shoup Julian
                                                                                                                                  Sprung And Patrick Stoner

                                                                                                                                  In addition to their presentations, Eric and Anthony will also
                                                                                                                                  present free fragging demos. FragExchange.org will also have almost
                                                                                                                                  continuous fragging demos at their booth and the frags will be given
                                                                                                                                  away free.

                                                                                                                                  Registration for IMAC is currently $150 and going up to $175 next
                                                                                                                                  month but ReefGossip.com members can register for just $125 for the
                                                                                                                                  next 2 weeks only, until April 30. Coupled with hotel room rates of
                                                                                                                                  just $93/nite plus tax, plus free airport/hotel transfers, it makes
                                                                                                                                  IMAC a deal hard to beat. And with the price wars now going on among
                                                                                                                                  some airlines, flying can be cheaper than driving.

                                                                                                                                  Your $125 registration covers the speaker presentations, the Meet-
                                                                                                                                  the-Speakers Reception, the Banquet, Big Trade Show and the Giant
                                                                                                                                  Raffle. You can't get this rate through the website; you have to
                                                                                                                                  email Dennis Gallagher at dennis2103@... for
                                                                                                                                  instructions, or log on to reefgossip.com and PM degall.

                                                                                                                                  If you have never been to a big conference like IMAC before you can
                                                                                                                                  get a taste of what it is like on the website www.theimac.org . They
                                                                                                                                  have streaming videos of major portions of some of last year's
                                                                                                                                  speakers:
                                                                                                                                  Dr. Ron Shimek, "Myth Takes About Sand Beds"
                                                                                                                                  Jeff Mitchell, "Diseases in Hippocampus" and Randy Reed, "Culturing
                                                                                                                                  Rotifers and Copopods".
                                                                                                                                  Anthony Calfo's "Coral Farming" will be up on the site next week.
                                                                                                                                  There are also segments from Dr. Ron Shimek, Julian Sprung, Eric
                                                                                                                                  Borneman and Richard Harker from 2003. Check them out to see what
                                                                                                                                  you have been missing.

                                                                                                                                  There are also a few spots still open for the Behind-the-Scenes Tour
                                                                                                                                  of the Shedd Aquarium.

                                                                                                                                  I would love to see you all there
                                                                                                                                  Thanks,
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10432 From: J G Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: guppy info
                                                                                                                                  awesome... thanks for the links. I'll join the group
                                                                                                                                  & check out the other site when I get some time (prob'
                                                                                                                                  after finals)...





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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10433 From: J G Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: a Q on neons
                                                                                                                                  Yes, I have neons (blue stripe with red on the bottom)
                                                                                                                                  & the orange ones. I'll have to keep my eye out for
                                                                                                                                  pink ones. That would also explain why there were
                                                                                                                                  listed as glo neon or somethin to that effect :) and
                                                                                                                                  would explain why the blue ones usually stay together
                                                                                                                                  & the orange ones together as well....

                                                                                                                                  Are the pink & orange the same species?


                                                                                                                                  --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Grubs, There is only one "kind" (species/variety)
                                                                                                                                  > of Neon Tetra,
                                                                                                                                  > which has an electric blue band down the length of
                                                                                                                                  > its body, with a
                                                                                                                                  > red band beneath this, down the latter half of it
                                                                                                                                  > body. If you have
                                                                                                                                  > two other similar fish, with a fluorescent dark pink
                                                                                                                                  > (orange?) band
                                                                                                                                  > down the length of their bodies, these are called
                                                                                                                                  > Glo-Lite Tetras.
                                                                                                                                  > These are slightly larger. Interesting that the two
                                                                                                                                  > species will
                                                                                                                                  > school at all, but probably due to the fact they are
                                                                                                                                  > somewhat related
                                                                                                                                  > and are looking for more individuals (peferably of
                                                                                                                                  > their own species)
                                                                                                                                  > to school up with. Ray
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > \
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, J G
                                                                                                                                  > <sir_grubs47@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > > ok, I know neons are schoolers... so I got 4 of
                                                                                                                                  > them
                                                                                                                                  > > to keep them happy. I was cleaning up some stuff
                                                                                                                                  > & I
                                                                                                                                  > > found my wal-mart recepit from when I got the
                                                                                                                                  > neons &
                                                                                                                                  > > I noticed 2 different kinds were listed. I had
                                                                                                                                  > bought
                                                                                                                                  > > 2 orange ones & a blue one (already had a blue one
                                                                                                                                  > in
                                                                                                                                  > > my tank). so my Q is... are the orange & blue
                                                                                                                                  > ones
                                                                                                                                  > > really 2 different types of neons? Or maybe it
                                                                                                                                  > was
                                                                                                                                  > > just wally worlds way of keeping track of how many
                                                                                                                                  > of
                                                                                                                                  > > each color they have in stock... I have noticed
                                                                                                                                  > often
                                                                                                                                  > > the two orange and the 2 blue will break off &
                                                                                                                                  > swim
                                                                                                                                  > > around together...just wonderin. This is the
                                                                                                                                  > first
                                                                                                                                  > > time I've really had anything but bettas so...
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > BTW found out female bettas & neons dont mix...
                                                                                                                                  > > unless your planning on serving the bettas
                                                                                                                                  > lunch...
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                  > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                  > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources
                                                                                                                                  > site!
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                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >



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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10434 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: HELP quick!!/Isolate.
                                                                                                                                  Now the rest of the tank is hardley swimming they are looking
                                                                                                                                  stressed. I've done 2 small one gallon water changes. It's a 20 gallon
                                                                                                                                  tank. I think?


                                                                                                                                  > After I posted this yesterday I saw a big white spot on her tail and
                                                                                                                                  > imediatly took her out, she is alive but just laying on the bottom of
                                                                                                                                  > the small tank she's in for now.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > > There are literally hundreds of dieases a fish can suffer from. The
                                                                                                                                  > safest bet is to isolate this fish.
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Harry
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > I have a tank with guppies and some snails and ghost shrimp and a cory
                                                                                                                                  > > cat (other 2 died). One of my female guppies is dying or something.
                                                                                                                                  > > She is looking like she's trying to swim really fast in place she is
                                                                                                                                  > > like wiggling or some wierd looking thing. Any ideas. Tank is been
                                                                                                                                  > > running for over a year and new additions are about 18 guppy fry just
                                                                                                                                  > > the other day but not from her.
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                  > > .
                                                                                                                                  > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                  > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                  > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                  > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10435 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/16/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: HELP quick!!/Isolate.
                                                                                                                                  Do a few larger waterchanges ( 20%-30% ) a 1 gallon waterchange out of 20 gallons isn't enough to do anything. 
                                                                                                                                  Hopefully what ever is wrong can be cured with a few waterchanges.

                                                                                                                                  rob
                                                                                                                                  Indiana

                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 4/16/2005 10:46:34 PM US Eastern Standard Time, CK147@... writes:


                                                                                                                                  Now the rest of the tank is hardley swimming they are looking
                                                                                                                                  stressed. I've done 2 small one gallon water changes. It's a 20 gallon
                                                                                                                                  tank. I think?


                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10436 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: a Q on neons
                                                                                                                                  I presumed by "orange" you meant pink, which are called Glo-Lites.
                                                                                                                                  Although they somewhat resemble Neons, only in respect that
                                                                                                                                  they "light-up" (but in a different color) with an
                                                                                                                                  electric/irridescent band, and are of similar shape, they are not
                                                                                                                                  Neons. A very similar fish you may not have seen yet is the Cardinal
                                                                                                                                  Tetra, which is colored much like the Neon, but has the red band the
                                                                                                                                  full length of the body, and is slightly larger. I don't know of (or
                                                                                                                                  can't think of) any related fish of similar shape and size that is
                                                                                                                                  orange (especially fluorescent orange), although the Serpae and Flame
                                                                                                                                  Tetras (family - group name) do have lots of red and/or orange
                                                                                                                                  throughout the body, but not with a fluorescent stripe, and are
                                                                                                                                  larger with a deeper body. Ray
                                                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, J G <sir_grubs47@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > Yes, I have neons (blue stripe with red on the bottom)
                                                                                                                                  > & the orange ones. I'll have to keep my eye out for
                                                                                                                                  > pink ones. That would also explain why there were
                                                                                                                                  > listed as glo neon or somethin to that effect :) and
                                                                                                                                  > would explain why the blue ones usually stay together
                                                                                                                                  > & the orange ones together as well....
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Are the pink & orange the same species?
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Grubs, There is only one "kind" (species/variety)
                                                                                                                                  > > of Neon Tetra,
                                                                                                                                  > > which has an electric blue band down the length of
                                                                                                                                  > > its body, with a
                                                                                                                                  > > red band beneath this, down the latter half of it
                                                                                                                                  > > body. If you have
                                                                                                                                  > > two other similar fish, with a fluorescent dark pink
                                                                                                                                  > > (orange?) band
                                                                                                                                  > > down the length of their bodies, these are called
                                                                                                                                  > > Glo-Lite Tetras.
                                                                                                                                  > > These are slightly larger. Interesting that the two
                                                                                                                                  > > species will
                                                                                                                                  > > school at all, but probably due to the fact they are
                                                                                                                                  > > somewhat related
                                                                                                                                  > > and are looking for more individuals (peferably of
                                                                                                                                  > > their own species)
                                                                                                                                  > > to school up with. Ray
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > \
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, J G
                                                                                                                                  > > <sir_grubs47@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > > > ok, I know neons are schoolers... so I got 4 of
                                                                                                                                  > > them
                                                                                                                                  > > > to keep them happy. I was cleaning up some stuff
                                                                                                                                  > > & I
                                                                                                                                  > > > found my wal-mart recepit from when I got the
                                                                                                                                  > > neons &
                                                                                                                                  > > > I noticed 2 different kinds were listed. I had
                                                                                                                                  > > bought
                                                                                                                                  > > > 2 orange ones & a blue one (already had a blue one
                                                                                                                                  > > in
                                                                                                                                  > > > my tank). so my Q is... are the orange & blue
                                                                                                                                  > > ones
                                                                                                                                  > > > really 2 different types of neons? Or maybe it
                                                                                                                                  > > was
                                                                                                                                  > > > just wally worlds way of keeping track of how many
                                                                                                                                  > > of
                                                                                                                                  > > > each color they have in stock... I have noticed
                                                                                                                                  > > often
                                                                                                                                  > > > the two orange and the 2 blue will break off &
                                                                                                                                  > > swim
                                                                                                                                  > > > around together...just wonderin. This is the
                                                                                                                                  > > first
                                                                                                                                  > > > time I've really had anything but bettas so...
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > BTW found out female bettas & neons dont mix...
                                                                                                                                  > > > unless your planning on serving the bettas
                                                                                                                                  > > lunch...
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                  > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                  > > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources
                                                                                                                                  > > site!
                                                                                                                                  > > > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10437 From: yasciti Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: breeding freshwater butterflies
                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry
                                                                                                                                  <harryfisherman@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > I am assuming Pantodon buchholzi. African butterfly fish.
                                                                                                                                  Intolerent of suface fish. Smaller fish will be eaten. A cover of
                                                                                                                                  floating plants is important.Ph 6.5, temp 73-86. To condition a
                                                                                                                                  variety of live food is needed. When the eggs are laid they will
                                                                                                                                  float to the top and should be removed to another tank. A depth of 6
                                                                                                                                  to 8 inches in the breeding tank.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Harry
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > yasciti <yasciti@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Hi everyone I'm Dino I've just joined. I've been keeping fish for
                                                                                                                                  over
                                                                                                                                  > 11 years now, & I hope you guys can help me. I need as much
                                                                                                                                  info.as
                                                                                                                                  > you can give on breeding freshwater butterfly fish, especially
                                                                                                                                  from
                                                                                                                                  > those with some success in this.
                                                                                                                                  > All the sites tend to have the same info.
                                                                                                                                  >


                                                                                                                                  Thanks Harry but I all ready know this. I was looking for more
                                                                                                                                  specific info. ie. techniques used to induce spawning, size of eggs
                                                                                                                                  & young, growth rate, feeding of young, & what exactly happens
                                                                                                                                  during courtship & mating, etc. .
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10438 From: TC@};- Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Ok what can I do!
                                                                                                                                  Got a pair of swordtails and about 4 mollys, 2 pair, in a 75 gal
                                                                                                                                  tank,, and that male swordtail has killed my male mollies and it's
                                                                                                                                  mate.... I'm so frustrated. Thinking of tidey bowl time for him.
                                                                                                                                  Help! TC
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10439 From: harry perry Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Ok what can I do!/angry swordtail.
                                                                                                                                  It would appear one more death is needed. Or give it back to your lfs. Is the swordtail bigger than the mollies? Options: tidy bowl, well planted tank with caves, balance the size, fish don't normally attack fish bigger then themselves "normally"., stop pouring your coffee into the tank. 
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  I would have thought these fish would get along.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Harry
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  "TC@};-" <tc_doucet2001@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                  Got a pair of swordtails and about 4 mollys, 2 pair, in a 75 gal
                                                                                                                                  tank,, and that male swordtail has killed my male mollies and it's
                                                                                                                                  mate.... I'm so frustrated.  Thinking of tidey bowl time for him. 
                                                                                                                                  Help! TC





                                                                                                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                  .
                                                                                                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10440 From: paul helms Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Ok what can I do!
                                                                                                                                  that is because the male mollies were compettition for
                                                                                                                                  the male sword tail. mollies and sword tails can
                                                                                                                                  breed, so to keep them, you need more like 4 to 1. 4
                                                                                                                                  female to 1 male. now that he has become so
                                                                                                                                  territorial, you may need to find him a new home, and
                                                                                                                                  try again with a higher female to male ratio.
                                                                                                                                  --- "TC@};-" <tc_doucet2001@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Got a pair of swordtails and about 4 mollys, 2 pair,
                                                                                                                                  > in a 75 gal
                                                                                                                                  > tank,, and that male swordtail has killed my male
                                                                                                                                  > mollies and it's
                                                                                                                                  > mate.... I'm so frustrated. Thinking of tidey bowl
                                                                                                                                  > time for him.
                                                                                                                                  > Help! TC
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >



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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10441 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: HELP quick!!/Isolate.
                                                                                                                                  OK, I just did a 2 gallon and will wait about a half an hour and do
                                                                                                                                  another 2. I just don't want to shock them.


                                                                                                                                  > Do a few larger waterchanges ( 20%-30% ) a 1 gallon waterchange out
                                                                                                                                  of 20
                                                                                                                                  > gallons isn't enough to do anything.
                                                                                                                                  > Hopefully what ever is wrong can be cured with a few waterchanges.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > rob
                                                                                                                                  > Indiana
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > In a message dated 4/16/2005 10:46:34 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                  > CK147@H... writes:
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > > Now the rest of the tank is hardley swimming they are looking
                                                                                                                                  > > stressed. I've done 2 small one gallon water changes. It's a 20 gallon
                                                                                                                                  > > tank. I think?
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10442 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                  Does anybody have anything to tell me that I really should know in
                                                                                                                                  raising mystery snail babies. I plan on trading them out to my lps in
                                                                                                                                  trade for food (mice and crickets) for my other animals. Thanks in
                                                                                                                                  advance
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10443 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info

                                                                                                                                  keep your snails and fish seperated. The snails are big waste producers, it will be a lot harder on you if they are not seperated.
                                                                                                                                  Keep a tight lid as the snails will get out of your tank, and they do crawl into the worst places.

                                                                                                                                  I suggest you go to Applesnail.net  and join there message forum and search there archives.
                                                                                                                                  You should learn all you can before making a purchase...

                                                                                                                                  rob
                                                                                                                                  Indiana






                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 4/17/2005 2:33:58 PM US Eastern Standard Time, CK147@... writes:


                                                                                                                                  Does anybody have anything to tell me that I really should know in
                                                                                                                                  raising mystery snail babies. I plan on trading them out to my lps in
                                                                                                                                  trade for food (mice and crickets) for my other animals. Thanks in
                                                                                                                                  advance






                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10444 From: harry perry Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Any suggestions?
                                                                                                                                  I have 3 tanks. All planted and cycled and balanced(no algae). My 29 gal. has only 3 rainbows, 2 neon blue and a bosmanti and a cae. That's it. My 2 tens look beautiful. Driftwood, live plants, no algae. One problem, no fish. I prefer egglayers and I always try to breed the fish I keep. I'm leaning toward breeding bettas in one of the 10's. I have had some sucess at breeding labyrinth fish in the past. Dwarf gouramis, I ended up with 75 adult fish. Any ideas on a way to stock these tanks with small community fish(I like the variety). Or maybe move the rainbows into a ten and put discus in the 29 but how many discus would be good for a 29 gal.?
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Harry


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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10445 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 4/17/2005 3:40:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, FortWayneFish@... writes:
                                                                                                                                  Keep your snails and fish seperated. The snails are big waste producers, it will be a lot harder on you if they are not seperated.
                                                                                                                                  Keep a tight lid as the snails will get out of your tank, and they do crawl into the worst places.
                                                                                                                                  Sorry rob but I  disagree. I have snails and fish together. my fish are bigger waste producers then my snails. I never had a problem keeping the two together. you will want to put some lettuce in your tank attached to a veggie clip to keep your snails feed. You can also use zucchini, carrots and cucumber. The lid does not need to be tight but would suggest a lid so that the snails stay in the tank. Do not fill the tank entirely full, leave about an inch or two, so the snails can come up and breathe. The snails are fascinating little creatures. I hope you enjoy them but do go to applesnail.net to learn more.
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10446 From: valbogert01 Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Response to Ray's Nitrate suggestion
                                                                                                                                  Ray,
                                                                                                                                  Thanks for the input. I know I slacked a ton these past weeks. I did
                                                                                                                                  a 50% water change and put in a new filter. I did not know about
                                                                                                                                  rinsing the filter and sponge in aquarium water. I have been using
                                                                                                                                  tap. I am wondering if my test is un-reliable or if I am screwing up
                                                                                                                                  the results. I do not have a nitrite testing kit. Need to get one. Any
                                                                                                                                  recommendations? The fish are acting more normal. The otos are even
                                                                                                                                  out and about. I think my feeding problem was because I was putting it
                                                                                                                                  too close to the out flow of the filter and it was getting pushed down
                                                                                                                                  before the fish could get to it. They get barely a pinch from me.
                                                                                                                                  However I suspect that hubby drowns them in food. Since I last posted
                                                                                                                                  I have repeated a 20% water change twice. The readings are still the
                                                                                                                                  same as far as nitrates. Is there another test that I can get or am I
                                                                                                                                  doomed to be a fish killer? Thanks for the advice.
                                                                                                                                  Val
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10447 From: valbogert01 Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Tank history
                                                                                                                                  Okay.. This may explain somethings.
                                                                                                                                  Bought a 10 gal at a garage sale almost a year ago with all the
                                                                                                                                  equip and 45 endler/guppy mix and a huge pleco. Found homes for all
                                                                                                                                  but 5 gups and kept the pleco. Tank started out with 4inches of
                                                                                                                                  murky brown water. Added water, gravel, plants. Went through alot of
                                                                                                                                  ups and downs before I bought fish keeping for dummies. Started reg
                                                                                                                                  water changes ect..
                                                                                                                                  Bought a snail, Pleco ate 2 fish, pleco died, snail commited suicide
                                                                                                                                  in my filter.
                                                                                                                                  Current problems.. Ich bout when adding otos and danios. Forgot to
                                                                                                                                  isolate. Purchased another book. Cleared up ich.. Have had steady
                                                                                                                                  problems with the water quality and readings since the meds. This is
                                                                                                                                  3 months later. Just now had another fish die and one on the way to
                                                                                                                                  kicking the bucket.
                                                                                                                                  I am wanting to get this right and have been consistant and doing
                                                                                                                                  great with water changes till now. I laxed for 3 weeks, filter
                                                                                                                                  clogged and now everything is out of whack. I am ready to go crazy.
                                                                                                                                  Like I said for about 6 months I was doing super till the ich. Now I
                                                                                                                                  cant seem to get past it. Val
                                                                                                                                  Tank Specs: 10 gal
                                                                                                                                  2 otos, 1 guppy/endler mix, 2 danios, 3 white clouds
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10448 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                  I planned on keeping the 6 snails I'm buying 2 in the 20 gallon and 2
                                                                                                                                  in the 10 and giving my mom 2 for her tank. I plan on letting the
                                                                                                                                  babies get close to hatching in the 10 gallon to keep them humid. And
                                                                                                                                  than when it gets close to hatching time I'm gonna move them to a
                                                                                                                                  little seperate tank just for them. So I'm kinda gonna do both have
                                                                                                                                  some with fish and some without. =:o) I did look around applesnail and
                                                                                                                                  will be back to read more. Thanks guys.


                                                                                                                                  > Keep your snails and fish seperated. The snails are big waste
                                                                                                                                  producers, it
                                                                                                                                  > will be a lot harder on you if they are not seperated.
                                                                                                                                  > Keep a tight lid as the snails will get out of your tank, and they
                                                                                                                                  do crawl
                                                                                                                                  > into the worst places.



                                                                                                                                  > Sorry rob but I disagree. I have snails and fish together. my fish are
                                                                                                                                  > bigger waste producers then my snails. I never had a problem keeping
                                                                                                                                  the two
                                                                                                                                  > together. you will want to put some lettuce in your tank attached to
                                                                                                                                  a veggie clip
                                                                                                                                  > to keep your snails feed. You can also use zucchini, carrots and
                                                                                                                                  cucumber. The
                                                                                                                                  > lid does not need to be tight but would suggest a lid so that the
                                                                                                                                  snails stay
                                                                                                                                  > in the tank. Do not fill the tank entirely full, leave about an inch
                                                                                                                                  or two,
                                                                                                                                  > so the snails can come up and breathe. The snails are fascinating
                                                                                                                                  little
                                                                                                                                  > creatures. I hope you enjoy them but do go to applesnail.net to
                                                                                                                                  learn more.
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10449 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: PS. Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                  Also the lady says the babies love and need algae and that she grows
                                                                                                                                  it for them any idea on how to get algae to grow?


                                                                                                                                  > Sorry rob but I disagree. I have snails and fish together. my fish are
                                                                                                                                  > bigger waste producers then my snails. I never had a problem keeping
                                                                                                                                  the two
                                                                                                                                  > together. you will want to put some lettuce in your tank attached to
                                                                                                                                  a veggie clip
                                                                                                                                  > to keep your snails feed. You can also use zucchini, carrots and
                                                                                                                                  cucumber. The
                                                                                                                                  > lid does not need to be tight but would suggest a lid so that the
                                                                                                                                  snails stay
                                                                                                                                  > in the tank. Do not fill the tank entirely full, leave about an inch
                                                                                                                                  or two,
                                                                                                                                  > so the snails can come up and breathe. The snails are fascinating
                                                                                                                                  little
                                                                                                                                  > creatures. I hope you enjoy them but do go to applesnail.net to
                                                                                                                                  learn more.
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10450 From: harry perry Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Response to Ray's Nitrate suggestion/To Val
                                                                                                                                  Dear Val,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  You are not a fish killer.(well maybe). In your post below you mention a niTRITE testing kit but also mention that niTRATES are still the same. In a cycled tank you should have 0 amonia, 0 niTRITES and definately want to see a niTrate reading. It shows that everything is in balance. If you get too carried away with water changes you will be back to square one, an uncycled tank. I always wash my filters in tap water for the past 20 years. You and hubby might want to talk about how many times a day these fish are being fed. One small feeding a day is enough. Do not feed according to the instructions on the container. A small pinch of flake food once a day is all that is needed. Don't blame yourself, blame "hubby".
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Harry 

                                                                                                                                  valbogert01 <valbogert01@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                  Ray,
                                                                                                                                  Thanks for the input. I know I slacked a ton these past weeks. I did
                                                                                                                                  a 50% water change and put in a new filter. I did not know about
                                                                                                                                  rinsing the filter and sponge in aquarium water. I have been using
                                                                                                                                  tap. I am wondering if my test is un-reliable or if I am screwing up
                                                                                                                                  the results. I do not have a nitrite testing kit. Need to get one. Any
                                                                                                                                  recommendations? The fish are acting more normal. The otos are even
                                                                                                                                  out and about. I think my feeding problem was because I was putting it
                                                                                                                                  too close to the out flow of the filter and it was getting pushed down
                                                                                                                                  before the fish could get to it. They get barely a pinch from me.
                                                                                                                                  However I suspect that hubby drowns them in food. Since I last posted
                                                                                                                                  I have repeated a 20% water change twice. The readings are still the
                                                                                                                                  same as far as nitrates. Is there another test that I can get or am I
                                                                                                                                  doomed to be a fish killer? Thanks for the advice.
                                                                                                                                  Val





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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10451 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: PS. Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                  To grow algae put the tank in a sunny spot.
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10452 From: harry perry Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails /Snails for barter.
                                                                                                                                  If you want to raise the snails for bartering the idea of keeping them separate from the fish is a good one. "close to hatching" how will you know? Many years ago my father kept 7 tanks. Money was tight so he kept 2 tanks for show and used the other five to raise livebearers for barter. His hobby was totally self supporting. Good luck.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Harry

                                                                                                                                  mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                  I planned on keeping the 6 snails I'm buying 2 in the 20 gallon and 2
                                                                                                                                  in the 10 and giving my mom 2 for her tank. I plan on letting the
                                                                                                                                  babies get close to hatching in the 10 gallon to keep them humid. And
                                                                                                                                  than when it gets close to hatching time I'm gonna move them to a
                                                                                                                                  little seperate tank just for them. So I'm kinda gonna do both have
                                                                                                                                  some with fish and some without. =:o) I did look around applesnail and
                                                                                                                                  will be back to read more. Thanks guys.


                                                                                                                                  > Keep your snails and fish seperated. The snails are big waste
                                                                                                                                  producers, it
                                                                                                                                  > will be a lot harder on you if they are not seperated.
                                                                                                                                  > Keep a tight lid as the snails will get out of your tank, and they
                                                                                                                                  do crawl
                                                                                                                                  > into the worst places.



                                                                                                                                  > Sorry rob but I  disagree. I have snails and fish together. my fish are
                                                                                                                                  > bigger waste producers then my snails. I never had a problem keeping
                                                                                                                                  the two
                                                                                                                                  > together. you will want to put some lettuce in your tank attached to
                                                                                                                                  a veggie clip
                                                                                                                                  > to keep your snails feed. You can also use zucchini, carrots and
                                                                                                                                  cucumber. The
                                                                                                                                  > lid does not need to be tight but would suggest a lid so that the
                                                                                                                                  snails stay
                                                                                                                                  > in the tank. Do not fill the tank entirely full, leave about an inch
                                                                                                                                  or two,
                                                                                                                                  > so the snails can come up and breathe. The snails are fascinating
                                                                                                                                  little
                                                                                                                                  > creatures. I hope you enjoy them but do go to applesnail.net to
                                                                                                                                  learn more.





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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10453 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails /Snails for barter.
                                                                                                                                  Yup I plan on trading the pet store for mice and crickets to feed my
                                                                                                                                  other animals and fish or food or whatever there really nice and work
                                                                                                                                  good with me.
                                                                                                                                  As for when will I know if they are "close to hatching" According to
                                                                                                                                  the lady I'm buying the snails and eggs from she said that a clutch
                                                                                                                                  will start showing the colors of the snails than it should only be
                                                                                                                                  about 2 days so she said that's when you should move them. She breeds
                                                                                                                                  and sells them and at the moment says she has about 500 snails and is
                                                                                                                                  having clutches laid daily. Other than that I don't know I was just
                                                                                                                                  taking her word for it, but that's kinda why I asked on here incase
                                                                                                                                  others had different advice for me.


                                                                                                                                  > If you want to raise the snails for bartering the idea of keeping
                                                                                                                                  them separate from the fish is a good one. "close to hatching" how
                                                                                                                                  will you know? Many years ago my father kept 7 tanks. Money was tight
                                                                                                                                  so he kept 2 tanks for show and used the other five to raise
                                                                                                                                  livebearers for barter. His hobby was totally self supporting. Good luck.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Harry
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10454 From: harry perry Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Tank history/To Val
                                                                                                                                  Many years ago I decided I wanted to keep fish so I bought, tank, gravel, plants on a saturday and the fish on sunday. Everyone survied. My opinion, the importance of a cycled tank and all the b.s. that goes with it is totally overated. Most of the fish we buy come from fish farms in Florida. Some of these farms are nothing more then holes dug in the ground. The fish come from drainage ditches, swamps and poluted waters in foreign countries. We create our own problems by following the"experts" a couple of which we will be hearing from shortly. Go back to basics Don't get carried away. You obivously care about fish. The problem might be as simply as overfeeding. Ich is always present in our tanks it appears when fish are stressed or a tank is overpopulated. This hobby is suppose to have a calming effect on us. Relax, regroup. You are not the problem.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Harry 

                                                                                                                                  valbogert01 <valbogert01@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                  Okay.. This may explain somethings.
                                                                                                                                  Bought a 10 gal at a garage sale almost a year ago with all the
                                                                                                                                  equip and 45 endler/guppy mix and a huge pleco. Found homes for all
                                                                                                                                  but 5 gups and kept the pleco. Tank started out with 4inches of
                                                                                                                                  murky brown water. Added water, gravel, plants. Went through alot of
                                                                                                                                  ups and downs before I bought fish keeping for dummies. Started reg
                                                                                                                                  water changes ect..
                                                                                                                                  Bought a snail, Pleco ate 2 fish, pleco died, snail commited suicide
                                                                                                                                  in my filter.
                                                                                                                                  Current problems.. Ich bout when adding otos and danios. Forgot to
                                                                                                                                  isolate. Purchased another book. Cleared up ich.. Have had steady
                                                                                                                                  problems with the water quality and readings since the meds. This is
                                                                                                                                  3 months later. Just now had another fish die and one on the way to
                                                                                                                                  kicking the bucket.
                                                                                                                                  I am wanting to get this right and have been consistant and doing
                                                                                                                                  great with water changes till now. I laxed for 3 weeks, filter
                                                                                                                                  clogged and now everything is out of whack. I am ready to go crazy.
                                                                                                                                  Like I said for about 6 months I was doing super till the ich. Now I
                                                                                                                                  cant seem to get past it. Val
                                                                                                                                  Tank Specs: 10 gal
                                                                                                                                  2 otos, 1 guppy/endler mix, 2 danios, 3 white clouds





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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10455 From: paul helms Date: 4/17/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Tank history
                                                                                                                                  part of your problem is more than likely the 2 danios.
                                                                                                                                  danios become aggressive when not kept in groups. in
                                                                                                                                  fact they are notorious fin munchers, adn are more
                                                                                                                                  than likely streesing the hell out of the other fish.
                                                                                                                                  ich is always present, as harry stated. it is only
                                                                                                                                  able to latch onto fish when their slime coat is thin.
                                                                                                                                  it becomes thin whenever they are stressed. the key
                                                                                                                                  causes of said stress are:
                                                                                                                                  1. poor water quality
                                                                                                                                  2. sudden changes in water quality, up or down
                                                                                                                                  3. being chased/ picked on by other fish.
                                                                                                                                  any of these three conditions will causes their coat
                                                                                                                                  to thin out. if i were you, iu would get rid of the
                                                                                                                                  danios, or get more of them. i realize that you have
                                                                                                                                  white clouds (also danios) but they are less
                                                                                                                                  aggressive than regular old danios.
                                                                                                                                  --- valbogert01 <valbogert01@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Okay.. This may explain somethings.
                                                                                                                                  > Bought a 10 gal at a garage sale almost a year ago
                                                                                                                                  > with all the
                                                                                                                                  > equip and 45 endler/guppy mix and a huge pleco.
                                                                                                                                  > Found homes for all
                                                                                                                                  > but 5 gups and kept the pleco. Tank started out with
                                                                                                                                  > 4inches of
                                                                                                                                  > murky brown water. Added water, gravel, plants. Went
                                                                                                                                  > through alot of
                                                                                                                                  > ups and downs before I bought fish keeping for
                                                                                                                                  > dummies. Started reg
                                                                                                                                  > water changes ect..
                                                                                                                                  > Bought a snail, Pleco ate 2 fish, pleco died, snail
                                                                                                                                  > commited suicide
                                                                                                                                  > in my filter.
                                                                                                                                  > Current problems.. Ich bout when adding otos and
                                                                                                                                  > danios. Forgot to
                                                                                                                                  > isolate. Purchased another book. Cleared up ich..
                                                                                                                                  > Have had steady
                                                                                                                                  > problems with the water quality and readings since
                                                                                                                                  > the meds. This is
                                                                                                                                  > 3 months later. Just now had another fish die and
                                                                                                                                  > one on the way to
                                                                                                                                  > kicking the bucket.
                                                                                                                                  > I am wanting to get this right and have been
                                                                                                                                  > consistant and doing
                                                                                                                                  > great with water changes till now. I laxed for 3
                                                                                                                                  > weeks, filter
                                                                                                                                  > clogged and now everything is out of whack. I am
                                                                                                                                  > ready to go crazy.
                                                                                                                                  > Like I said for about 6 months I was doing super
                                                                                                                                  > till the ich. Now I
                                                                                                                                  > cant seem to get past it. Val
                                                                                                                                  > Tank Specs: 10 gal
                                                                                                                                  > 2 otos, 1 guppy/endler mix, 2 danios, 3 white clouds
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >



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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10456 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Brisbane (Australia) Pet and Animal Expo
                                                                                                                                  G'day Nick

                                                                                                                                  I stopped in this morning while judging was proceeding and there were some
                                                                                                                                  spectacular specimens on show.

                                                                                                                                  Cheers

                                                                                                                                  Bruce (Hansen)

                                                                                                                                  ANGFA (Qld) Inc - http://www.angfaqld.org.au/
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  From: "Nicolas J. Munro" <nmunro@...>
                                                                                                                                  To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 7:07 AM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Brisbane (Australia) Pet and Animal Expo


                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Hi,
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > I'm going down there today or tomorrow and taking my digicamera,
                                                                                                                                  > heres a couple of links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10457 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Response to Ray's Nitrate suggestion
                                                                                                                                  Val, I do feel (as do many others), that the filter and sponge
                                                                                                                                  should be rinsed out in aquarium water to keep the bacteria alive.
                                                                                                                                  It may well be entirely possible under normal circumstances to rinse
                                                                                                                                  the filter medium & sponge under tap water (which , because of
                                                                                                                                  chlorine or chloramines will kill the bacteria) without consequence
                                                                                                                                  as these same bacteria are also on your inside tank glass and your
                                                                                                                                  substrate. However, I am trying to address the fact that you have an
                                                                                                                                  extreme problem with your nitrates and need to retain all the
                                                                                                                                  bacteria that you can, especially in the filter. This is in
                                                                                                                                  accordance with today's aquarium maintainence practices.
                                                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                                                  Years ago, when I first started with fish, the nitrogen cycle was not
                                                                                                                                  even known about, and we all set up and stocked our tanks within a
                                                                                                                                  day or two (without cycling) and rarely had a problem. Looking back,
                                                                                                                                  I couldn't tell you why. Maybe the fish were stronger or maybe we
                                                                                                                                  were just lucky most of the time (or may it was because the fish
                                                                                                                                  hadn't yet learned about "cycling" either -- heh, heh) The fact that
                                                                                                                                  you have only two Zebra Danios did not escape my attention, and along
                                                                                                                                  with Paul, I would also recommend adding to that group to decrease
                                                                                                                                  the stress on the other inhabitants, but my first concern is your
                                                                                                                                  nitrate problem. Your 50% water change should have cut your nitrates
                                                                                                                                  from 160 to 80 and your two 20% changes should have further reduced
                                                                                                                                  it to 64 and then to 51 which is still high. These readings would be
                                                                                                                                  effective if no additional nitrates were added during this period and
                                                                                                                                  your nitrogen cycle was working properly. Even so, your water
                                                                                                                                  changes should have had some effect, which leads me to suspect that
                                                                                                                                  possibly your testing is wrong (or the kit is too old), or there's
                                                                                                                                  something else out of the ordinary. There are no other tests for the
                                                                                                                                  cycle, as you have asked about, other than for the three by-products
                                                                                                                                  of the cycle -- ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. You might want to
                                                                                                                                  consider another brand which may be easier to use and read; Aquarium
                                                                                                                                  Pharmaceuticals is good. In the meantime, change out a few large
                                                                                                                                  partial water changes and then keep up with regular water changes and
                                                                                                                                  curb hubby's fish feeding (may be a LARGE part of the problem). Fish
                                                                                                                                  should be fed no more than they can clean up in about 5 minutes as it
                                                                                                                                  appears you probably know, and yes in your case, temporarily turn the
                                                                                                                                  filter off for those 5 minutes. You haven't mentioned if you have
                                                                                                                                  live plants. Ray
                                                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "valbogert01" <valbogert01@y...>
                                                                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Ray,
                                                                                                                                  > Thanks for the input. I know I slacked a ton these past weeks. I
                                                                                                                                  did
                                                                                                                                  > a 50% water change and put in a new filter. I did not know about
                                                                                                                                  > rinsing the filter and sponge in aquarium water. I have been using
                                                                                                                                  > tap. I am wondering if my test is un-reliable or if I am screwing
                                                                                                                                  up
                                                                                                                                  > the results. I do not have a nitrite testing kit. Need to get one.
                                                                                                                                  Any
                                                                                                                                  > recommendations? The fish are acting more normal. The otos are even
                                                                                                                                  > out and about. I think my feeding problem was because I was putting
                                                                                                                                  it
                                                                                                                                  > too close to the out flow of the filter and it was getting pushed
                                                                                                                                  down
                                                                                                                                  > before the fish could get to it. They get barely a pinch from me.
                                                                                                                                  > However I suspect that hubby drowns them in food. Since I last
                                                                                                                                  posted
                                                                                                                                  > I have repeated a 20% water change twice. The readings are still
                                                                                                                                  the
                                                                                                                                  > same as far as nitrates. Is there another test that I can get or am
                                                                                                                                  I
                                                                                                                                  > doomed to be a fish killer? Thanks for the advice.
                                                                                                                                  > Val
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10458 From: Robert Hickey Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: tank
                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                    Hiya all
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Irish Rob here
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Just wanted to say thanks to all for all the help
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    My tank is finally normal and  up a running for ages now and my final upgrades are done and the South american biotope idea I had Seems to have turned out really well
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    attached is a photo,
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    2 Bolivian rams (Male and Female)
                                                                                                                                    9 Neons
                                                                                                                                    3 singapore wood shrimp ( just had to)
                                                                                                                                    Lots of plants, Floating and Valis and DIY Co2
                                                                                                                                    its a Juwel 70 Litre, Did My own activated carbon section to get rid of tanins etc
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Cheers All
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Rob
                                                                                                                                    Regards
                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey | Networks Engineer Citywest Business Park | BT | Tel: +353
                                                                                                                                    (0)1 43258749
                                                                                                                                    | Mob: +353 (0)86 8061840 | E: robert.hickey@bt.com | www.btireland.ie
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10459 From: daniel_roachus Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Planning new tank
                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cynthia brennemann"
                                                                                                                                    <brennewoman@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > Okay, so let the tank thoroughly cycle and get really stable before
                                                                                                                                    > introducing the discuss...the two gourami in question are really shy
                                                                                                                                    > and non-agressive or I wouldn't suggest it. What are some good
                                                                                                                                    > companions for discus fish?

                                                                                                                                    Other discus fish?? ;)
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10460 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Planning new tank
                                                                                                                                    Well, Pooh. I like a tank with a wide variety of fish, not just one
                                                                                                                                    type. So discuss don't share tanks well?
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10461 From: valbogert01 Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Thanks all
                                                                                                                                    Nice to know that I am not the only one who messes up. In response to
                                                                                                                                    some of the questions:
                                                                                                                                    No live plants-I attempted it but it was a disaster.
                                                                                                                                    The tank is a 10gal I am afraid if I add anymore fish to help with the
                                                                                                                                    Danios I would have an overload. They seem to only mess with the White
                                                                                                                                    Clouds and sometimes like to "school" with the otos. The last
                                                                                                                                    endlers/guppy is on his last legs. I have a feeling that this was a
                                                                                                                                    very old tank and the guppys that came with it are several years old.
                                                                                                                                    He has no spots, no nipped parts, he is just fading in color and has a
                                                                                                                                    very distended belly. He eats well.
                                                                                                                                    Tonight I will be purchasing a better kit. I am thinking about
                                                                                                                                    investing in a larger tank (29 gallon). That way I can get the right
                                                                                                                                    amount of fish so they will school. I will do a change tommorrow
                                                                                                                                    morning and test the levels again and give a report.
                                                                                                                                    Val
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10462 From: Tricia Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Possible tank plan
                                                                                                                                    We have decided not to do a planted tank for our first tank, hopefully
                                                                                                                                    in a year or two things will be less hectic and will allow us the time
                                                                                                                                    to do and enjoy a planted tank, both time wise and financial wise.
                                                                                                                                    Our plans are 3 ea (2 female 1 male) of guppies, swordtail, platy, and
                                                                                                                                    cherry barbs. 4 (3 female 1 male) of either corydora catfish or otto,
                                                                                                                                    not sure which are readily avail. here. 2 snails
                                                                                                                                    As realistic as possible on the fake plants both bottom and floating,
                                                                                                                                    drift wood and caves. Debating on a bottom bubble maker. The tank is
                                                                                                                                    29 Gallons. In total this would be 16 fish and 2 snails. There has
                                                                                                                                    also been some thought of maybe 3 (2 female and 1 male) fancy type
                                                                                                                                    gold fish (pref. not the puffy eyed ones though). The hopes are to be
                                                                                                                                    able to get the fish all approx the same size. Will these fish be
                                                                                                                                    able to live in a community together? At this time we are hoping to
                                                                                                                                    have plenty of hiding places for the frys and such since we did not
                                                                                                                                    have the ability to have a 2nd tank for a nursery.

                                                                                                                                    Thanks,
                                                                                                                                    Tricia
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10463 From: Eric Miner Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Do I need a powerhead?
                                                                                                                                    Hello All,

                                                                                                                                    I've ordered my tank a 46 gl. Oceanic bow, gotten my power filter a
                                                                                                                                    Penguin 350, a good lighting system and heater. So, I'm moving along
                                                                                                                                    in my planning phase.

                                                                                                                                    I'm wondering if I need a powerhead too. I've read that some fish like
                                                                                                                                    a little extra current (I'm planning Diamond Tetras, Harlequins and
                                                                                                                                    Panda Corrys) I've also read on the web that some people feel it's a
                                                                                                                                    good idea to add a bit of current in the lower levels of the tank.

                                                                                                                                    So, my questions are –

                                                                                                                                    1.Do the fish I listed like a little extra current?
                                                                                                                                    2.Does it help to have a little current in the lower levels of the tank?
                                                                                                                                    3.Will such a current have any positive or negative affects on plants?
                                                                                                                                    4.How is the strength of a powerhead measured?

                                                                                                                                    Thanks,

                                                                                                                                    Eric
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10464 From: harry perry Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Possible tank plan/Tricia
                                                                                                                                    I wouldn't mix the tropical fish with gold fish. Tropicals need a heated tank. Goldfish are a cold water fish(or non- heated tank). You don't need an air stone or "bubble maker" if you use a hang on the back filter that causes some surface agitation. Floating live plants would help. There cheap, low light( 1 watt per gal) and help absorb excess nutrients that will cause the algae outbreak you are about to have.
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Harry 

                                                                                                                                    Tricia <trycya@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                    We have decided not to do a planted tank for our first tank, hopefully
                                                                                                                                    in a year or two things will be less hectic and will allow us the time
                                                                                                                                    to do and enjoy a planted tank, both time wise and financial wise.
                                                                                                                                    Our plans are 3 ea (2 female 1 male) of guppies, swordtail, platy, and
                                                                                                                                    cherry barbs.  4 (3 female 1 male) of either corydora catfish or otto,
                                                                                                                                    not sure which are readily avail. here.  2 snails
                                                                                                                                    As realistic as possible on the fake plants both bottom and floating,
                                                                                                                                    drift wood and caves.  Debating on a bottom bubble maker.  The tank is
                                                                                                                                    29 Gallons.  In total this would be 16 fish and 2 snails.  There has
                                                                                                                                    also been some thought of maybe 3 (2 female and 1 male) fancy type
                                                                                                                                    gold fish (pref. not the puffy eyed ones though).  The hopes are to be
                                                                                                                                    able to get the fish all approx the same size.  Will these fish be
                                                                                                                                    able to live in a community together?  At this time we are hoping to
                                                                                                                                    have plenty of hiding places for the frys and such since we did not
                                                                                                                                    have the ability to have a 2nd tank for a nursery.

                                                                                                                                    Thanks,
                                                                                                                                    Tricia





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                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10465 From: paul helms Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Do I need a powerhead?
                                                                                                                                    powerheads have a set flow rate listed on the box, and
                                                                                                                                    can be turned down. i would buy the 301 (30) for your
                                                                                                                                    tank. i belive it does 162 gph.
                                                                                                                                    --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > Hello All,
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > I've ordered my tank a 46 gl. Oceanic bow, gotten my
                                                                                                                                    > power filter a
                                                                                                                                    > Penguin 350, a good lighting system and heater. So,
                                                                                                                                    > I'm moving along
                                                                                                                                    > in my planning phase.
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > I'm wondering if I need a powerhead too. I've read
                                                                                                                                    > that some fish like
                                                                                                                                    > a little extra current (I'm planning Diamond Tetras,
                                                                                                                                    > Harlequins and
                                                                                                                                    > Panda Corrys) I've also read on the web that some
                                                                                                                                    > people feel it's a
                                                                                                                                    > good idea to add a bit of current in the lower
                                                                                                                                    > levels of the tank.
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > So, my questions are �
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > 1.Do the fish I listed like a little extra current?
                                                                                                                                    > 2.Does it help to have a little current in the lower
                                                                                                                                    > levels of the tank?
                                                                                                                                    > 3.Will such a current have any positive or negative
                                                                                                                                    > affects on plants?
                                                                                                                                    > 4.How is the strength of a powerhead measured?
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > Eric
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >



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                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10466 From: paul helms Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Thanks all
                                                                                                                                    the larger the tank, the easier it is, and the less
                                                                                                                                    often you need to do water changes.
                                                                                                                                    --- valbogert01 <valbogert01@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > Nice to know that I am not the only one who messes
                                                                                                                                    > up. In response to
                                                                                                                                    > some of the questions:
                                                                                                                                    > No live plants-I attempted it but it was a disaster.
                                                                                                                                    > The tank is a 10gal I am afraid if I add anymore
                                                                                                                                    > fish to help with the
                                                                                                                                    > Danios I would have an overload. They seem to only
                                                                                                                                    > mess with the White
                                                                                                                                    > Clouds and sometimes like to "school" with the otos.
                                                                                                                                    > The last
                                                                                                                                    > endlers/guppy is on his last legs. I have a feeling
                                                                                                                                    > that this was a
                                                                                                                                    > very old tank and the guppys that came with it are
                                                                                                                                    > several years old.
                                                                                                                                    > He has no spots, no nipped parts, he is just fading
                                                                                                                                    > in color and has a
                                                                                                                                    > very distended belly. He eats well.
                                                                                                                                    > Tonight I will be purchasing a better kit. I am
                                                                                                                                    > thinking about
                                                                                                                                    > investing in a larger tank (29 gallon). That way I
                                                                                                                                    > can get the right
                                                                                                                                    > amount of fish so they will school. I will do a
                                                                                                                                    > change tommorrow
                                                                                                                                    > morning and test the levels again and give a report.
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > Val
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >



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                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10467 From: TankGurl Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Planning new tank
                                                                                                                                    On 4/18/05, cynthia brennemann <brennewoman@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > Well, Pooh. I like a tank with a wide variety of fish, not just one
                                                                                                                                    > type. So discuss don't share tanks well?

                                                                                                                                    Generally, no. Not that they can't socialize, but discus thrive in
                                                                                                                                    extremely clean, highly filtered water with a low ph. If you throw
                                                                                                                                    other species in, the variables then expand and you'll eventually see
                                                                                                                                    health stress with the discus.

                                                                                                                                    Personally, discus are so beautiful and satisfying to watch, I think
                                                                                                                                    they deserve a tank of their own.

                                                                                                                                    Kelly
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10468 From: paul helms Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Planning new tank
                                                                                                                                    nothing, discus should be alone, if they are bothered
                                                                                                                                    they will nto eat, and die. you can put dsomw bootm
                                                                                                                                    feeders, like coris wioththem, but remember that
                                                                                                                                    discuss prefer 85 degree water and most other fish
                                                                                                                                    will not do well in that high of temp.

                                                                                                                                    --- daniel_roachus <daniel_roach@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cynthia
                                                                                                                                    > brennemann"
                                                                                                                                    > <brennewoman@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                    > > Okay, so let the tank thoroughly cycle and get
                                                                                                                                    > really stable before
                                                                                                                                    > > introducing the discuss...the two gourami in
                                                                                                                                    > question are really shy
                                                                                                                                    > > and non-agressive or I wouldn't suggest it. What
                                                                                                                                    > are some good
                                                                                                                                    > > companions for discus fish?
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > Other discus fish?? ;)
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >



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                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10469 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: tank
                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                      Rob,
                                                                                                                                      Great looking tank, well done. I did resize your picture (attached) as it was the size of a wall poster :-)

                                                                                                                                      Your tank and fish look like they are meant to be together keep up the good work

                                                                                                                                      rob
                                                                                                                                      Indiana
                                                                                                                                      USA

                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 4/18/2005 7:48:48 AM US Eastern Standard Time, rhickey@esat.net writes:


                                                                                                                                      attached is a photo,


                                                                                                                                      2 Bolivian rams (Male and Female)
                                                                                                                                      9 Neons
                                                                                                                                      3 singapore wood shrimp ( just had to)
                                                                                                                                      Lots of plants, Floating and Valis and DIY Co2
                                                                                                                                      its a Juwel 70 Litre, Did My own activated carbon section to get rid of tanins etc

                                                                                                                                      Cheers All


                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10470 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Planning new tank
                                                                                                                                      Discuss are very very shy and stress easily. They do share tanks with others but they have to be smaller and very peaceful.
                                                                                                                                      tankmates: Dwarf male gouramis( females tend to be more aggressive), cory cats, cardinal, serpae or neon tetras, Harlequin and other Rasboras,otocinchlus affrins, bolivian rams,bristlenose plecos.
                                                                                                                                      I am sure there are other tankmates but those are the ones that pop into my mind 1st.
                                                                                                                                      Avoid Angelfish as they can be aggressive and can carry "
                                                                                                                                      cappilaria" a parasite that does not effect the Angelfish but will effect the Discuss.
                                                                                                                                      For adult Discuss 10 gallons of water per adult fish. so if you have a 55 gallon tank you could get away with 6 adult fish ( discuss only ).
                                                                                                                                      Of course if you get smaller fish they won't require the 10 gallons/fish for awhile..

                                                                                                                                      There are a lot of websights out there dedicated to Discuss and a mailing group dedicted to discuss. It would be advisabe to join a few of these groups and learn as much as possible before spending your $.

                                                                                                                                      my 3cents

                                                                                                                                      rob
                                                                                                                                      indiana





                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 4/18/2005 10:22:54 AM US Eastern Standard Time, brennewoman@... writes:


                                                                                                                                      Well, Pooh.  I like a tank with a wide variety of fish, not just one
                                                                                                                                      type.  So discuss don't share tanks well?






                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10471 From: Robert Hickey Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: tank
                                                                                                                                      Cool  Thanks Rob
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                      It did turn out really well.
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                      Sorry for the large file Size my fault
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                      Here Are the files
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                      Any queries and opinions are greatly accepted.
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                      :o)
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                      Regards
                                                                                                                                      Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                      Robert Hickey | Networks Engineer Citywest Business Park | BT | Tel: +353
                                                                                                                                      (0)1 43258749
                                                                                                                                      | Mob: +353 (0)86 8061840 | E: robert.hickey@... | www.btireland.ie
                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                      Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 6:05 PM
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] tank

                                                                                                                                      Rob,
                                                                                                                                      Great looking tank, well done. I did resize your picture (attached) as it was the size of a wall poster :-)

                                                                                                                                      Your tank and fish look like they are meant to be together keep up the good work

                                                                                                                                      rob
                                                                                                                                      Indiana
                                                                                                                                      USA

                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 4/18/2005 7:48:48 AM US Eastern Standard Time, rhickey@... writes:


                                                                                                                                      attached is a photo,


                                                                                                                                      2 Bolivian rams (Male and Female)
                                                                                                                                      9 Neons
                                                                                                                                      3 singapore wood shrimp ( just had to)
                                                                                                                                      Lots of plants, Floating and Valis and DIY Co2
                                                                                                                                      its a Juwel 70 Litre, Did My own activated carbon section to get rid of tanins etc

                                                                                                                                      Cheers All




                                                                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                      .
                                                                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10472 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: a Q on neons
                                                                                                                                      the only orange tetras i know of are glow-light tetras. are they sort of transparent with an
                                                                                                                                      orange stripe running down their middle? if so they sound like glow-lights. and i don't think
                                                                                                                                      they're actually a neon, rather are a different kind of tetra.

                                                                                                                                      i have some glow-lights and they're hardy little guys. definitely fatter than neons. i don't have
                                                                                                                                      neons anymore, but i have cardinal tetras, which are smaller than the glow-lights and seem more
                                                                                                                                      delicate.

                                                                                                                                      --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                      > ok, I know neons are schoolers... so I got 4 of them
                                                                                                                                      > to keep them happy. I was cleaning up some stuff & I
                                                                                                                                      > found my wal-mart recepit from when I got the neons &
                                                                                                                                      > I noticed 2 different kinds were listed. I had bought
                                                                                                                                      > 2 orange ones & a blue one (already had a blue one in
                                                                                                                                      > my tank). so my Q is... are the orange & blue ones
                                                                                                                                      > really 2 different types of neons? Or maybe it was
                                                                                                                                      > just wally worlds way of keeping track of how many of
                                                                                                                                      > each color they have in stock... I have noticed often
                                                                                                                                      > the two orange and the 2 blue will break off & swim
                                                                                                                                      > around together...just wonderin. This is the first
                                                                                                                                      > time I've really had anything but bettas so...
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > BTW found out female bettas & neons dont mix...
                                                                                                                                      > unless your planning on serving the bettas lunch...
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                      Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10473 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: interesting saltwater fish
                                                                                                                                      wow, i wish i had a large enough tank for one now. i like peaceful fish, not the aggressive fish
                                                                                                                                      that pick on others or shy fish that hide all the time.

                                                                                                                                      --- butterfly42422002 <rainbow422@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Years ago I knew someone with one. It was very young and looked odd.
                                                                                                                                      > Over the years got very large 6 - 8 inches tall and grew into his
                                                                                                                                      > fins. They are very relaxing to watch. He always reminded me of a
                                                                                                                                      > live submarine and he was very calm. It was a unique combo in the
                                                                                                                                      > tank because it was in with 2 clowns and a Trigger. The Trigger would
                                                                                                                                      > swim all over the tank like a busy little bee but the Bat would just
                                                                                                                                      > hang out. It always amazed me that the Trigger did not mess with the
                                                                                                                                      > Bat fish.
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Tiffany (Rainbow422@...)
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > ---they definitely look different when they mature! kinda like a fw
                                                                                                                                      > angel on crack =)
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >


                                                                                                                                      Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10474 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Help Please!! Nitrate Problem/ High nitrates.
                                                                                                                                      i have a whisper on my 2.5 and instead of replacing the cartridge this last time my hubby put in
                                                                                                                                      new carbon chips. it seems to work well like that, better than replacing the cartridge did. and i
                                                                                                                                      think it's cheaper in the long run. he just slit a hole down the center of the foam part, inserted
                                                                                                                                      the chips and then reinserted the cartridge into the plastic/rubber canister.

                                                                                                                                      --- harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                      > I run Whispers on all my tanks. I just wash the bag not replace it. However at some point the
                                                                                                                                      > carbon will become satureated and reverse it's self. Amonia in an established tank should be 0.
                                                                                                                                      > The balance is upset, possible by the filter. Not the tap water. Try feeding once a day. do
                                                                                                                                      > another partial water change and let sit for a few days and then test the water again.
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Harry
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > valbogert01 <valbogert01@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > It is one of those Whisper Filters. I replaced the filter cartridge
                                                                                                                                      > and scrubbed out the suction tube. It is working great now. Ammonia is
                                                                                                                                      > at .25
                                                                                                                                      > I do a water change once a week. I have been lacking lately due to
                                                                                                                                      > work. It has been 3 weeks since my normal water change. I have had
                                                                                                                                      > flutuations before but nothing like this. The filter sucked up some
                                                                                                                                      > plant leaves and proceeded to clog the tube. The cartrige was way
                                                                                                                                      > overdue. I admit that. It seems like the water quality has not been
                                                                                                                                      > very good since I had a bout of Ich and had to medicate. The nitrates
                                                                                                                                      > are becoming a huge problem. Is it my tap that might be adding to it?
                                                                                                                                      > I also feed the fish 1-2 times a day with a fast on the weekend. (0nly
                                                                                                                                      > for a day or so)
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                      > .
                                                                                                                                      > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if
                                                                                                                                      > changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re:
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                                                                                                                                      Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10475 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Blood Parrots * Pics
                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                        awwww it looks as if they're kissing! sorry, don't have any cichlid experience but had to comment
                                                                                                                                        on your beautiful fish. they're looking great! so glad you rescued them =)

                                                                                                                                        --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                        > Here are pictures of what they were doing. They were actually locked at
                                                                                                                                        > the lips but my camera was too slow to get that.
                                                                                                                                        > Now the smaller one has a scale hanging off his side. I don't have to
                                                                                                                                        > treat that do I? And is it typical for one sex to burrow and not the
                                                                                                                                        > other? The large one burrows constantly, then runs anyone off that
                                                                                                                                        > nears his hole.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Leslie 'n Allie ~ Native Texan!
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10476 From: TankGurl Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Blood Parrots * Pics
                                                                                                                                        > --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > > Here are pictures of what they were doing. They were actually locked at
                                                                                                                                        > > the lips but my camera was too slow to get that.
                                                                                                                                        > > Now the smaller one has a scale hanging off his side. I don't have to
                                                                                                                                        > > treat that do I?

                                                                                                                                        You'll have to keep an eye on any cuts/bites,open sores, loose scales
                                                                                                                                        from fighting for secondary infections. Often, nipped fins can turn
                                                                                                                                        into fin rot....especially if the tank water conditions are not the
                                                                                                                                        greatest. Stress will also turn a little nip into a problem. If the
                                                                                                                                        fish continue with their kissing fighting/challenges, remove one to
                                                                                                                                        another tank for awhile. Cichlids can be very determined and will
                                                                                                                                        pursue a fish until it's dead. Rearrange your rocks/decorations then
                                                                                                                                        try re-introducing the removed fish again.

                                                                                                                                        I use a salt buffer for my cichlid tank and I've found salt to be very
                                                                                                                                        effective for fast healing from nips and bites. Not everyone
                                                                                                                                        subscribes to salt use for freshwater, but there are proven benefits.

                                                                                                                                        Kelly
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10477 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Recommended Feeding
                                                                                                                                        Hi,

                                                                                                                                        I have a question about feeding. I normally feed all my fish (3 diff. kinds of tetras, 1 angel, 2
                                                                                                                                        dwarf gouramis, 4 male bettas and 1 sw fish-an ocellaris clown) 2 times per day in all the
                                                                                                                                        different tanks they're housed in. The bettas get 2-3 Hikari betta pellets each feeding time and
                                                                                                                                        the rest of the fw fish get a small amount of flakes each time. The sw fish gets frozen mysis
                                                                                                                                        shrimp. Should I be feeding only 1 time per day, or even less often like a few times per week
                                                                                                                                        only?

                                                                                                                                        The angel and all the tetras have been with me since November I believe. I believe all the bettas
                                                                                                                                        are fully matured: 1 has been with me since October, 1 since November, 1 since Feb. and 1 since
                                                                                                                                        March. 1 of the gouramis also looks fully matured, I just got him from a friend who had had him
                                                                                                                                        for an unknown amount of time. The other dwarf gourami I just got on Sunday from PetCo. I'm not
                                                                                                                                        sure his age but he's maybe 1.5 inches long?

                                                                                                                                        Thanks in advance,
                                                                                                                                        Valeen


                                                                                                                                        I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10478 From: paul helms Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Recommended Feeding
                                                                                                                                        yes once a day, and skip a day occasionally
                                                                                                                                        --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                        > Hi,
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > I have a question about feeding. I normally feed all
                                                                                                                                        > my fish (3 diff. kinds of tetras, 1 angel, 2
                                                                                                                                        > dwarf gouramis, 4 male bettas and 1 sw fish-an
                                                                                                                                        > ocellaris clown) 2 times per day in all the
                                                                                                                                        > different tanks they're housed in. The bettas get
                                                                                                                                        > 2-3 Hikari betta pellets each feeding time and
                                                                                                                                        > the rest of the fw fish get a small amount of flakes
                                                                                                                                        > each time. The sw fish gets frozen mysis
                                                                                                                                        > shrimp. Should I be feeding only 1 time per day, or
                                                                                                                                        > even less often like a few times per week
                                                                                                                                        > only?
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > The angel and all the tetras have been with me since
                                                                                                                                        > November I believe. I believe all the bettas
                                                                                                                                        > are fully matured: 1 has been with me since October,
                                                                                                                                        > 1 since November, 1 since Feb. and 1 since
                                                                                                                                        > March. 1 of the gouramis also looks fully matured, I
                                                                                                                                        > just got him from a friend who had had him
                                                                                                                                        > for an unknown amount of time. The other dwarf
                                                                                                                                        > gourami I just got on Sunday from PetCo. I'm not
                                                                                                                                        > sure his age but he's maybe 1.5 inches long?
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Thanks in advance,
                                                                                                                                        > Valeen
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10479 From: J G Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: a Q on neons
                                                                                                                                        ok, so they're prob glow=lights then...  cause they are most certainly not pink.  yes, they look like neons in that they have a stripe of color running down their middle - but are missing the extra color streak that my blue neons do.  thanks for the heads up.  Are they schoolers too?
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        I prob should get another one of them to make a school (isnt a school 3 or more of the same?).  Or would they be happy with just the 2 of them & their similar looking neons...  they've seemed to kind of enjoy swimming around with them, though they often will be seen swimming togehter (or maybe with just one of the blue guys)...
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Thanks
                                                                                                                                        ~J

                                                                                                                                        Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                        the only orange tetras i know of are glow-light tetras. are they sort of transparent with an
                                                                                                                                        orange stripe running down their middle? if so they sound like glow-lights. and i don't think
                                                                                                                                        they're actually a neon, rather are a different kind of tetra.

                                                                                                                                        i have some glow-lights and they're hardy little guys. definitely fatter than neons. i don't have
                                                                                                                                        neons anymore, but i have cardinal tetras, which are smaller than the glow-lights and seem more
                                                                                                                                        delicate.

                                                                                                                                        --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                        > ok, I know neons are schoolers...  so I got 4 of them
                                                                                                                                        > to keep them happy.  I was cleaning up some stuff & I
                                                                                                                                        > found my wal-mart recepit from when I got the neons &
                                                                                                                                        > I noticed 2 different kinds were listed.  I had bought
                                                                                                                                        > 2 orange ones & a blue one (already had a blue one in
                                                                                                                                        > my tank).  so my Q is...  are the orange & blue ones
                                                                                                                                        > really 2 different types of neons?  Or maybe it was
                                                                                                                                        > just wally worlds way of keeping track of how many of
                                                                                                                                        > each color they have in stock...  I have noticed often
                                                                                                                                        > the two orange and the 2 blue will break off & swim
                                                                                                                                        > around together...just wonderin.  This is the first
                                                                                                                                        > time I've really had anything but bettas so...
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > BTW found out female bettas & neons dont mix...
                                                                                                                                        > unless your planning on serving the bettas lunch...
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >            
                                                                                                                                        > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                                                                        > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                                        Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!



                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10480 From: dmichaelschmidt1967 Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Lebanese Fossil specimens at FANTASTIC prices........
                                                                                                                                        I have some VERY nice Lebanese fossil material at some very, very low
                                                                                                                                        prices. There are a number of different types of bony fish, sharks,
                                                                                                                                        skates, and misc. unidentified/undescribed material. The prices on
                                                                                                                                        some of it is less than what I was buying specimens for at the
                                                                                                                                        quarries in Lebanon last spring. So, if any of you would be
                                                                                                                                        interested in havings some 100 million year old fossilsied examples of
                                                                                                                                        what you currently have in your tanks, please let me know!

                                                                                                                                        If you are interested in seeing the complete listing of what is
                                                                                                                                        available, please send me an email (off-list, preferably), and I will
                                                                                                                                        send it off to you. There are some VERY rare fish on this list.

                                                                                                                                        Thanks

                                                                                                                                        Michael
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10481 From: Nan Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                        Sure, from one who has had multiple clutches of Ramshorn Snails (which belongs to the same family as Mystery snails which are actually Apple snails, info gathered from : http://home.mchsi.com/~masts/index.html  )  and they multiply like crazy.  Anyway, snails are messy especially when they eat, however, if you set up their own aquarium with a powerful filtrations system, don't plant anything they will eat, you will want to feed them fresh veggies such as cucumber (mine love it), zuccini, crookneck squash, and such.  Also, after you get the ph where you want it, take regular chicken egg shells, make sure the membrane is taken out, egg shells should be clean and dry, the crunch them up into a fine powder or extremely small pieces and add them to your gravel.  They eat the egg shells, it also helps add calcium to the water for them, as well as helps to keep the ph stable.  Be prepared that once you get them hatching and you have multiple babies you will find that the LFS won't want to buy them unless they are pretty good size, in most cases, and that can take a few months.  At least this has all been my experience and from the advice from those who have raised them.  Personally, I think once my Ramshorns are gone, I am going to stick to my Maylasian Trumpet Snails, and Octos, or plecos to keep my tank up. NO more Ramshorns or Apple Snails!
                                                                                                                                        Have a great day!
                                                                                                                                        ~nan~

                                                                                                                                        mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                        Does anybody have anything to tell me that I really should know in
                                                                                                                                        raising mystery snail babies. I plan on trading them out to my lps in
                                                                                                                                        trade for food (mice and crickets) for my other animals. Thanks in
                                                                                                                                        advance





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                                                                                                                                        Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!

                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10482 From: wendie Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: FW: [AquaticLife]Eclipse 12
                                                                                                                                        No problem.  LOL I'll hold up a sign for them as they get flung past the front sideways.
                                                                                                                                        I bred fish 50 years ago and am not used to all the new stuff that's come up since
                                                                                                                                        I left the hobby in the 60's.  Laugh as you want but I almost became the TFH questions &
                                                                                                                                        answer editor back then.
                                                                                                                                        Wendie
                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 10:07 PM
                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: FW: [AquaticLife]Eclipse 12

                                                                                                                                        is that meant as sarcasm? or serious?
                                                                                                                                        --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                        > I wanted to say that but couldn't find the right
                                                                                                                                        > words without sounding MEAN
                                                                                                                                        > and degrading...2 things this hobby doesn't need.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Great use of words wtfmorlok
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > rob
                                                                                                                                        > Indiana
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > In a message dated 4/16/2005 8:10:54 PM US Eastern
                                                                                                                                        > Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                        > wtfmorlok@... writes:
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > > it is not as fast as you think....fish swim
                                                                                                                                        > against
                                                                                                                                        > > rivers, and will swim above/velow need be
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                        __________________________________
                                                                                                                                        Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                        Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
                                                                                                                                        http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide


                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10483 From: Nisbet Family (Measham) Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Fish Books on EBay
                                                                                                                                        Hi all, I've been having a clear out and have listed quite a few of my fish books on EBay.  Please take a look in case they are of any use to you.  All of them are in good, used condition and I will post worldwide. 
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Hopefully the links below will come through properly.
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Fish Breeding - Hardback Book
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Take care and thanks for listening,

                                                                                                                                        Emma
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10484 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                        the few stores I got to give away free their snails so I wouldn't think they would want to buy them.. I have mixed snails in my tank with fish and it is extra work but it is what I have to do to keep them all happy.. 2 water changes a week to keep out the ammonia since my snails ate up all my plants lol but mine love lettuce... well they used too once I introduced cucumber now they don't like the lettuce as much picky little terds arnt they lol shannon
                                                                                                                                        Sure, from one who has had multiple clutches of Ramshorn Snails (which belongs to the same family as Mystery snails which are actually Apple snails, info gathered from : http://home.mchsi.com/~masts/index.html  )  and they multiply like crazy.  Anyway, snails are messy especially when they eat, however, if you set up their own aquarium with a powerful filtrations system, don't plant anything they will eat, you will want to feed them fresh veggies such as cucumber (mine love it), zuccini, crookneck squash, and such.  Also, after you get the ph where you want it, take regular chicken egg shells, make sure the membrane is taken out, egg shells should be clean and dry, the crunch them up into a fine powder or extremely small pieces and add them to your gravel.  They eat the egg shells, it also helps add calcium to the water for them, as well as helps to keep the ph stable.  Be prepared that once you get them hatching and you have multiple babies you will find that the LFS won't want to buy them unless they are pretty good size, in most cases, and that can take a few months.  At least this has all been my experience and from the advice from those who have raised them.  Personally, I think once my Ramshorns are gone, I am going to stick to my Maylasian Trumpet Snails, and Octos, or plecos to keep my tank up. NO more Ramshorns or Apple Snails!
                                                                                                                                        Have a great day!
                                                                                                                                        ~nan~
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10485 From: Nan Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                          Hey, Clark, I disagree and I can prove it.  Both of the pics are 10 gallon tanks.  1 has a pleco, and 1 juvenile Betta and a bunch of those damn baby ramshorn snails that I can't get rid of and the other set up at the same time has 2 ramshorn and a betta you can't see.  Both get fed daily, and about the same amount of food except for the pleco.  Let me tell you the "dirty" one all murky and mucky...that would be from the snail waste...and I have 2 filters going, a box and whisper for a 10 gallon.   The other has a sponge filter.  NOW tell me that they aren't messy.  Oh and for the record they both get a 50% water change every week since one is my hospital tank and the other is for a home for the betta. 
                                                                                                                                          ~nan~

                                                                                                                                          clarkmariposo25@aol.com wrote:
                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 4/17/2005 3:40:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, FortWayneFish@aol.com writes:
                                                                                                                                          Keep your snails and fish seperated. The snails are big waste producers, it will be a lot harder on you if they are not seperated.
                                                                                                                                          Keep a tight lid as the snails will get out of your tank, and they do crawl into the worst places.
                                                                                                                                          Sorry rob but I  disagree. I have snails and fish together. my fish are bigger waste producers then my snails. I never had a problem keeping the two together. you will want to put some lettuce in your tank attached to a veggie clip to keep your snails feed. You can also use zucchini, carrots and cucumber. The lid does not need to be tight but would suggest a lid so that the snails stay in the tank. Do not fill the tank entirely full, leave about an inch or two, so the snails can come up and breathe. The snails are fascinating little creatures. I hope you enjoy them but do go to applesnail.net to learn more.


                                                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                                          ~nan and crew~
                                                                                                                                          Rome, GA
                                                                                                                                          bettas and soon we add guppys!


                                                                                                                                          Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                          Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10486 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                          Well I know they don't want the pest snails but these are the pretty
                                                                                                                                          ones that people want to buy. My lps had a few blue ones that they
                                                                                                                                          sold for like $3.00 a piece but they where covered in algae and had
                                                                                                                                          broken shells so they never ordered more and already told me they
                                                                                                                                          would trade me for them. Also the mystery snail doesn't eat plants
                                                                                                                                          only dead and rotting ones. But thanks for answering.


                                                                                                                                          > the few stores I got to give away free their snails so I wouldn't
                                                                                                                                          think they
                                                                                                                                          > would want to buy them.. I have mixed snails in my tank with fish
                                                                                                                                          and it is
                                                                                                                                          > extra work but it is what I have to do to keep them all happy.. 2 water
                                                                                                                                          > changes a week to keep out the ammonia since my snails ate up all
                                                                                                                                          my plants lol but
                                                                                                                                          > mine love lettuce... well they used too once I introduced cucumber
                                                                                                                                          now they
                                                                                                                                          > don't like the lettuce as much picky little terds arnt they lol shannon
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10487 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                          I have some red ramshorns in my 10 gallon tank and take out the eggs
                                                                                                                                          every time I see them. Thanks for the info on chicken egg shells I've
                                                                                                                                          never heard that. Yeah I figured they would have to be atleast a
                                                                                                                                          nickel size or bigger before I traded them out. I also have quite a
                                                                                                                                          few mts in both my tanks I actually like them. How come other snails
                                                                                                                                          breed and have no problems just put them in a tank but the mystery
                                                                                                                                          snails need such care with ph, calcium and all that. Just curious.


                                                                                                                                          > Sure, from one who has had multiple clutches of Ramshorn Snails
                                                                                                                                          (which belongs to the same family as Mystery snails which are actually
                                                                                                                                          Apple snails, info gathered from :
                                                                                                                                          http://home.mchsi.com/~masts/index.html ) and they multiply like
                                                                                                                                          crazy. Anyway, snails are messy especially when they eat, however, if
                                                                                                                                          you set up their own aquarium with a powerful filtrations system,
                                                                                                                                          don't plant anything they will eat, you will want to feed them fresh
                                                                                                                                          veggies such as cucumber (mine love it), zuccini, crookneck squash,
                                                                                                                                          and such. Also, after you get the ph where you want it, take regular
                                                                                                                                          chicken egg shells, make sure the membrane is taken out, egg shells
                                                                                                                                          should be clean and dry, the crunch them up into a fine powder or
                                                                                                                                          extremely small pieces and add them to your gravel. They eat the egg
                                                                                                                                          shells, it also helps add calcium to the water for them, as well as
                                                                                                                                          helps to keep the ph stable. Be prepared that once you get them
                                                                                                                                          hatching and you have multiple babies you will find that the LFS won't
                                                                                                                                          want to
                                                                                                                                          > buy them unless they are pretty good size, in most cases, and that
                                                                                                                                          can take a few months. At least this has all been my experience and
                                                                                                                                          from the advice from those who have raised them. Personally, I think
                                                                                                                                          once my Ramshorns are gone, I am going to stick to my Maylasian
                                                                                                                                          Trumpet Snails, and Octos, or plecos to keep my tank up. NO more
                                                                                                                                          Ramshorns or Apple Snails!
                                                                                                                                          > Have a great day!
                                                                                                                                          > ~nan~
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Does anybody have anything to tell me that I really should know in
                                                                                                                                          > raising mystery snail babies. I plan on trading them out to my lps in
                                                                                                                                          > trade for food (mice and crickets) for my other animals. Thanks in
                                                                                                                                          > advance
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                          > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                          > Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10488 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                          me too I totally disagree I never had any tank issues then I put a few snails in and because they put out so much poop.. and much of it you can see  which is when you know it is bad I have to do 2 water changes a week.. I don't mind it though I choose to add them and I have developed  a love for them.. I just know that when I can I am going to have separate tanks.. and my experience has been that when they eat the lettuce they get less from it because they eat more and more comes out later lol... but with the cucumber I rarely see any poppies... but like I said I love my snails and have got many ppl to love them as well they are cool Shannon
                                                                                                                                          Hey, Clark, I disagree and I can prove it.  Both of the pics are 10 gallon tanks.  1 has a pleco, and 1 juvenile Betta and a bunch of those damn baby ramshorn snails that I can't get rid of and the other set up at the same time has 2 ramshorn and a betta you can't see.  Both get fed daily, and about the same amount of food except for the pleco.  Let me tell you the "dirty" one all murky and mucky...that would be from the snail waste...and I have 2 filters going, a box and whisper for a 10 gallon.   The other has a sponge filter.  NOW tell me that they aren't messy.  Oh and for the record they both get a 50% water change every week since one is my hospital tank and the other is for a home for the betta. 
                                                                                                                                          ~nan~

                                                                                                                                          clarkmariposo25@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 4/17/2005 3:40:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, FortWayneFish@... writes:
                                                                                                                                          Keep your snails and fish seperated. The snails are big waste producers, it will be a lot harder on you if they are not seperated.
                                                                                                                                          Keep a tight lid as the snails will get out of your tank, and they do crawl into the worst places.
                                                                                                                                          Sorry rob but I  disagree. I have snails and fish together. my fish are bigger waste producers then my snails. I never had a problem keeping the two together. you will want to put some lettuce in your tank attached to a veggie clip to keep your snails feed. You can also use zucchini, carrots and cucumber. The lid does not need to be tight but would suggest a lid so that the snails stay in the tank. Do not fill the tank entirely full, leave about an inch or two, so the snails can come up and breathe. The snails are fascinating little creatures. I hope you enjoy them but do go to applesnail.net to learn more.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10489 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                            yea I have 2 purple and one white and 2 canas from Terri they are very cool... clean growing great and now breeding... I would get your stuff from her as her stock is great... she ships too.. your right the snails they sell at the LPS look like crap but I think they have just been there so long and neglected that they just take the brunt of little care.. if you want a few pic's of the ones I got from Terri ill put them on here.. Shannon


                                                                                                                                            Well I know they don't want the pest snails but these are the pretty
                                                                                                                                            ones that people want to buy. My lps had a few blue ones that they
                                                                                                                                            sold for like $3.00 a piece but they where covered in algae and had
                                                                                                                                            broken shells so they never ordered more and already told me they
                                                                                                                                            would trade me for them. Also the mystery snail doesn't eat plants
                                                                                                                                            only dead and rotting ones. But thanks for answering
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10490 From: Nan Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                            That I couldn't tell you.  I am not an expert, but I can tell you that they are very hard to get rid of.  I like the Mystery snails better than the ramshorn because it takes two to breed, which makes it very, very nice because you can seperate them when you have too many. However, with Rams it only takes one...*LOL*.....I would go to the  http://www.applesnail.net/   she is very informative, as well as the other link I sent you.. http://home.mchsi.com/~masts/index.html   .  I email the site owner, Susan is her name, and ask her all kinds of questions.  Good luck to your adventures with snails!
                                                                                                                                            ~nan~

                                                                                                                                            mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                            I have some red ramshorns in my 10 gallon tank and take out the eggs
                                                                                                                                            every time I see them. Thanks for the info on chicken egg shells I've
                                                                                                                                            never heard that. Yeah I figured they would have to be atleast a
                                                                                                                                            nickel size or bigger before I traded them out. I also have quite a
                                                                                                                                            few mts in both my tanks I actually like them. How come other snails
                                                                                                                                            breed and have no problems just put them in a tank but the mystery
                                                                                                                                            snails need such care with ph, calcium and all that. Just curious.


                                                                                                                                            > Sure, from one who has had multiple clutches of Ramshorn Snails
                                                                                                                                            (which belongs to the same family as Mystery snails which are actually
                                                                                                                                            Apple snails, info gathered from :
                                                                                                                                            http://home.mchsi.com/~masts/index.html  )  and they multiply like
                                                                                                                                            crazy.  Anyway, snails are messy especially when they eat, however, if
                                                                                                                                            you set up their own aquarium with a powerful filtrations system,
                                                                                                                                            don't plant anything they will eat, you will want to feed them fresh
                                                                                                                                            veggies such as cucumber (mine love it), zuccini, crookneck squash,
                                                                                                                                            and such.  Also, after you get the ph where you want it, take regular
                                                                                                                                            chicken egg shells, make sure the membrane is taken out, egg shells
                                                                                                                                            should be clean and dry, the crunch them up into a fine powder or
                                                                                                                                            extremely small pieces and add them to your gravel.  They eat the egg
                                                                                                                                            shells, it also helps add calcium to the water for them, as well as
                                                                                                                                            helps to keep the ph stable.  Be prepared that once you get them
                                                                                                                                            hatching and you have multiple babies you will find that the LFS won't
                                                                                                                                            want to
                                                                                                                                            >  buy them unless they are pretty good size, in most cases, and that
                                                                                                                                            can take a few months.  At least this has all been my experience and
                                                                                                                                            from the advice from those who have raised them.  Personally, I think
                                                                                                                                            once my Ramshorns are gone, I am going to stick to my Maylasian
                                                                                                                                            Trumpet Snails, and Octos, or plecos to keep my tank up. NO more
                                                                                                                                            Ramshorns or Apple Snails!
                                                                                                                                            > Have a great day!
                                                                                                                                            > ~nan~
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Does anybody have anything to tell me that I really should know in
                                                                                                                                            > raising mystery snail babies. I plan on trading them out to my lps in
                                                                                                                                            > trade for food (mice and crickets) for my other animals. Thanks in
                                                                                                                                            > advance
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >            
                                                                                                                                            > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                            > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                            >  Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!





                                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                            Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                            Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10491 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Tank history/To Val
                                                                                                                                            Harry,

                                                                                                                                            Just because one can do it does not mean it should be done. I began in the
                                                                                                                                            hobby when the cycle, as we now know it, was not really known or understood.
                                                                                                                                            The big thing was a "balanced aquarium" where you would try to get the right
                                                                                                                                            amount of plants, fish and other critters, and filtration to achieve a
                                                                                                                                            "balance". What we were really trying to do, as it turns out, was to create
                                                                                                                                            a cycle as we know it today.

                                                                                                                                            Yep, most fish farms have holes dug in the ground to raise up fish, and,
                                                                                                                                            sometimes to breed them. Gee, sort of, almost like, being at home for the
                                                                                                                                            fish, fish that originated in ponds and streams in the jungles or hills of
                                                                                                                                            foreign countries. Labyrinth fish come from polluted waters, though not as
                                                                                                                                            most people would think of pollution now-a-days. They are waters that are
                                                                                                                                            high in organics and low in oxygen, hence their ability to breathe
                                                                                                                                            atmospheric air.

                                                                                                                                            Find a body of water that is polluted in the modern sense, and take a look
                                                                                                                                            at the aquatic life in it. If you do find any, and they are not deformed by
                                                                                                                                            the chemical wastes, are they fit to feed to you and yours? I doubt it. None
                                                                                                                                            of the fish in the trade come from such waters. In fact there are several
                                                                                                                                            organizations active in trying to preserve the waters in various parts of
                                                                                                                                            the world so we do not lose the fish we may some day, keep in an aquarium.

                                                                                                                                            So, as you say, go back to basics. Understand something about water
                                                                                                                                            chemistry. Understand the nitrogen cycle. Understand the needs of the fish
                                                                                                                                            you wish to keep, and then keep them, raise them, breed them. You and your
                                                                                                                                            fish will live longer lives and happier lives.

                                                                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                            ________________________________

                                                                                                                                            From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                            Behalf Of harry perry
                                                                                                                                            Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 11:36 PM
                                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank history/To Val


                                                                                                                                            Many years ago I decided I wanted to keep fish so I bought, tank, gravel,
                                                                                                                                            plants on a saturday and the fish on sunday. Everyone survied. My opinion,
                                                                                                                                            the importance of a cycled tank and all the b.s. that goes with it is
                                                                                                                                            totally overated. Most of the fish we buy come from fish farms in Florida.
                                                                                                                                            Some of these farms are nothing more then holes dug in the ground. The fish
                                                                                                                                            come from drainage ditches, swamps and poluted waters in foreign countries.
                                                                                                                                            We create our own problems by following the"experts" a couple of which we
                                                                                                                                            will be hearing from shortly. Go back to basics Don't get carried away. You
                                                                                                                                            obivously care about fish. The problem might be as simply as overfeeding.
                                                                                                                                            Ich is always present in our tanks it appears when fish are stressed or a
                                                                                                                                            tank is overpopulated. This hobby is suppose to have a calming effect on us.
                                                                                                                                            Relax, regroup. You are not the problem.

                                                                                                                                            Harry

                                                                                                                                            valbogert01 <valbogert01@...> wrote:


                                                                                                                                            Okay.. This may explain somethings.
                                                                                                                                            Bought a 10 gal at a garage sale almost a year ago with all the
                                                                                                                                            equip and 45 endler/guppy mix and a huge pleco. Found homes for all
                                                                                                                                            but 5 gups and kept the pleco. Tank started out with 4inches of
                                                                                                                                            murky brown water. Added water, gravel, plants. Went through alot of

                                                                                                                                            ups and downs before I bought fish keeping for dummies. Started reg
                                                                                                                                            water changes ect..
                                                                                                                                            Bought a snail, Pleco ate 2 fish, pleco died, snail commited suicide

                                                                                                                                            in my filter.
                                                                                                                                            Current problems.. Ich bout when adding otos and danios. Forgot to
                                                                                                                                            isolate. Purchased another book. Cleared up ich.. Have had steady
                                                                                                                                            problems with the water quality and readings since the meds. This is

                                                                                                                                            3 months later. Just now had another fish die and one on the way to
                                                                                                                                            kicking the bucket.
                                                                                                                                            I am wanting to get this right and have been consistant and doing
                                                                                                                                            great with water changes till now. I laxed for 3 weeks, filter
                                                                                                                                            clogged and now everything is out of whack. I am ready to go crazy.
                                                                                                                                            Like I said for about 6 months I was doing super till the ich. Now I

                                                                                                                                            cant seem to get past it. Val
                                                                                                                                            Tank Specs: 10 gal
                                                                                                                                            2 otos, 1 guppy/endler mix, 2 danios, 3 white clouds
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10492 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Possible tank plan
                                                                                                                                            Tricia,

                                                                                                                                            The needs of goldfish are quite different than the needs of the other fish
                                                                                                                                            you mentioned in your post.

                                                                                                                                            As Harry mentioned, goldfish do much better in cooler water. They are really
                                                                                                                                            a temperate water fish. Also, goldfish require a larger amount of water per
                                                                                                                                            inch of fish than the others you mention. This is because they are quite
                                                                                                                                            "messy" fish. They are, for the most part, vegetarian fish, and need a lot
                                                                                                                                            of vegetable matter in their diet. They produce much more waste as a result,
                                                                                                                                            and more ammonia as well.

                                                                                                                                            An adult goldfish will require nearly 30 gallons of water--in other words,
                                                                                                                                            your tank will comfortably hold one adult size goldfish.

                                                                                                                                            If you like the goldfish, then, by all means, go for goldfish rather than
                                                                                                                                            the tropicals. Just realize that as they grow, you will need to upgrade your
                                                                                                                                            tank. The three you are talking about would probably do well in a 55 gallon
                                                                                                                                            tank.

                                                                                                                                            If your tastes are more for the smaller "tropicals" and variety, then forego
                                                                                                                                            the goldfish for now. When you are more stable and can add more tanks,
                                                                                                                                            perhaps you would then consider the goldfish.

                                                                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                            From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                            Behalf Of Tricia
                                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 12:16 PM
                                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] Possible tank plan



                                                                                                                                            We have decided not to do a planted tank for our first tank, hopefully
                                                                                                                                            in a year or two things will be less hectic and will allow us the time
                                                                                                                                            to do and enjoy a planted tank, both time wise and financial wise.
                                                                                                                                            Our plans are 3 ea (2 female 1 male) of guppies, swordtail, platy, and
                                                                                                                                            cherry barbs. 4 (3 female 1 male) of either corydora catfish or otto,
                                                                                                                                            not sure which are readily avail. here. 2 snails
                                                                                                                                            As realistic as possible on the fake plants both bottom and floating,
                                                                                                                                            drift wood and caves. Debating on a bottom bubble maker. The tank is
                                                                                                                                            29 Gallons. In total this would be 16 fish and 2 snails. There has
                                                                                                                                            also been some thought of maybe 3 (2 female and 1 male) fancy type
                                                                                                                                            gold fish (pref. not the puffy eyed ones though). The hopes are to be
                                                                                                                                            able to get the fish all approx the same size. Will these fish be
                                                                                                                                            able to live in a community together? At this time we are hoping to
                                                                                                                                            have plenty of hiding places for the frys and such since we did not
                                                                                                                                            have the ability to have a 2nd tank for a nursery.

                                                                                                                                            Thanks,
                                                                                                                                            Tricia
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10493 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                            Where do you find terri? I should have my hands full with this batch
                                                                                                                                            but would be interested in getting some new blood in once they take
                                                                                                                                            off having babies. Don't want to much inbreeding. =:o) I actually know
                                                                                                                                            the people at the pet store and go there just about once a week and
                                                                                                                                            spend hours so I know the snails came in looking bad to start with.
                                                                                                                                            They do have some huge gold colored ones that are pretty I bought one
                                                                                                                                            but it ate my plants so I had to take him out. I'd love some pictures
                                                                                                                                            but I only read messages on the board so if there sent in an email to
                                                                                                                                            the group I can't see them. You can email me directly if you want.
                                                                                                                                            CK147@...


                                                                                                                                            > yea I have 2 purple and one white and 2 canas from Terri they are very
                                                                                                                                            > cool... clean growing great and now breeding... I would get your
                                                                                                                                            stuff from her as
                                                                                                                                            > her stock is great... she ships too.. your right the snails they
                                                                                                                                            sell at the
                                                                                                                                            > LPS look like crap but I think they have just been there so long and
                                                                                                                                            > neglected that they just take the brunt of little care.. if you
                                                                                                                                            want a few pic's of
                                                                                                                                            > the ones I got from Terri ill put them on here.. Shannon
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Well I know they don't want the pest snails but these are the pretty
                                                                                                                                            > ones that people want to buy. My lps had a few blue ones that they
                                                                                                                                            > sold for like $3.00 a piece but they where covered in algae and had
                                                                                                                                            > broken shells so they never ordered more and already told me they
                                                                                                                                            > would trade me for them. Also the mystery snail doesn't eat plants
                                                                                                                                            > only dead and rotting ones. But thanks for answering
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10494 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                            Thats ok I was just curious. I so far haven't tried to get rid of them
                                                                                                                                            but I'm sure when the day comes it will be hard. I plan on keeping the
                                                                                                                                            mystery snails in there own tank ( the ones I plan on trading ). So it
                                                                                                                                            should be easy to clean them out when needed and there clumps of eggs
                                                                                                                                            are easy to find so I shouldn't have a problem if I don't want them
                                                                                                                                            anymore. I checked the applesnail site and will check the other site
                                                                                                                                            listed now. Thanks again I hope I do well with this.


                                                                                                                                            > That I couldn't tell you. I am not an expert, but I can tell you
                                                                                                                                            that they are very hard to get rid of. I like the Mystery snails
                                                                                                                                            better than the ramshorn because it takes two to breed, which makes it
                                                                                                                                            very, very nice because you can seperate them when you have too many.
                                                                                                                                            However, with Rams it only takes one...*LOL*.....I would go to the
                                                                                                                                            http://www.applesnail.net/ she is very informative, as well as the
                                                                                                                                            other link I sent you.. http://home.mchsi.com/~masts/index.html . I
                                                                                                                                            email the site owner, Susan is her name, and ask her all kinds of
                                                                                                                                            questions. Good luck to your adventures with snails!
                                                                                                                                            > ~nan~
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > I have some red ramshorns in my 10 gallon tank and take out the eggs
                                                                                                                                            > every time I see them. Thanks for the info on chicken egg shells I've
                                                                                                                                            > never heard that. Yeah I figured they would have to be atleast a
                                                                                                                                            > nickel size or bigger before I traded them out. I also have quite a
                                                                                                                                            > few mts in both my tanks I actually like them. How come other snails
                                                                                                                                            > breed and have no problems just put them in a tank but the mystery
                                                                                                                                            > snails need such care with ph, calcium and all that. Just curious.
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10495 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                            lol after I just sent them to the group ok ill send them to you privately.. Terri is a member here.. let me get you her business email and web site.. she has tons of pic's and is like the queen of breeding snails.. you can also buy hatches from her.... once mine starting having hatches more frequently I plan on sending them to her... Shannon

                                                                                                                                            Where do you find terri? I should have my hands full with this batch
                                                                                                                                            but would be interested in getting some new blood in once they take
                                                                                                                                            off having babies. Don't want to much inbreeding. =:o) I actually know
                                                                                                                                            the people at the pet store and go there just about once a week and
                                                                                                                                            spend hours so I know the snails came in looking bad to start with.
                                                                                                                                            They do have some huge gold colored ones that are pretty I bought one
                                                                                                                                            but it ate my plants so I had to take him out. I'd love some pictures
                                                                                                                                            but I only read messages on the board so if there sent in an email to
                                                                                                                                            the group I can't see them. You can email me directly if you want.
                                                                                                                                            CK147@...
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10496 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Strange bugs!
                                                                                                                                            http://www.billabongbugs.com/gallery.htm


                                                                                                                                            Whilst at the Pet Expo on the weekend i saw these bug things, appartently
                                                                                                                                            they will get eaten if put in a community aqurium.

                                                                                                                                            Funny things
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10497 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: need a settlement on a dispute
                                                                                                                                            Would you recomend buying one? I'm planning on keeping lots of plants! Got
                                                                                                                                            really inspired by the tanks in the competition lots and lots of green
                                                                                                                                            leaves and nice colors.



                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                            From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                            To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                            Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 2:40 PM
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] need a settlement on a dispute


                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > yes you can buy phosphate test kits....10-13 bucks
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > --- Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >> Is it possible to get Phosphate test kits, i have a
                                                                                                                                            >> nitrate test kit but no
                                                                                                                                            >> phosphate test kit,
                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                            >> is this somthing i should buy to aid in diagnostics?
                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                            >> =Nick
                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                            >> ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                            >> From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                            >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                            >> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 1:52 PM
                                                                                                                                            >> Subject: [AquaticLife] need a settlement on a
                                                                                                                                            >> dispute
                                                                                                                                            >> > ... my example was that i said string algae
                                                                                                                                            >> appears when
                                                                                                                                            >> > phosphate levels are high, and will drop them
                                                                                                                                            >> fairly
                                                                                                                                            >> > quickly, while doing very little to the nitrate
                                                                                                                                            >> > levels, where macro algaes consume nitrate rapidly
                                                                                                                                            >> and
                                                                                                                                            >> > do relatively little to the amount of phsophate in
                                                                                                                                            >> teh
                                                                                                                                            >> > aquarium? any one know for sure?
                                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                            > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                                                                            > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10498 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: OT - Windfall/ Who's always right , men or women.?/Valeen
                                                                                                                                            So a women has to also think shes right to be happy... 
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            You are OK Harry.  No wonder you have been married 38 years.  Smiles to you and your wife. I call it the "Dance" Evita

                                                                                                                                            harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            After being married for 38 years I have found that intelligent women let the man think he is always right and do it their way anyhow. The intelligent man will keep his mouth shut and realize he is being shown some respect. The secret to a long releationship is called "duck and weave"
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Harry
                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                            Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 2:47 PM
                                                                                                                                            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - Windfall/ Who's always right , men or women.?/Valeen

                                                                                                                                            62 years!!!!!!! Good grief. They obviously found "their" secret to success. 
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Harry 
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            my grandparents were married for almost 62 years and i know that each and every day of their
                                                                                                                                            marriage my grandfather let my grandmother think she was always right. she certainly told him
                                                                                                                                            every day that she was! she still thinks she's always right and probably tells him even though
                                                                                                                                            he's gone now. i think it was one of the main reasons their marriage was so successful - he let
                                                                                                                                            her think whatever the heck she wanted & it made her happy. so she in turn let him do his guy
                                                                                                                                            stuff because she was happy 'knowing' she was always right.

                                                                                                                                            of course, once he got old enough to need a hearing aid, he could turn it off w/o her knowing and
                                                                                                                                            that probably saved his sanity =). my grandpa in heaven is probably laughing as he's reading this
                                                                                                                                            right now.

                                                                                                                                            --- Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                            > Now this is very true :) Strangely, I have also been married for 2 yrs now
                                                                                                                                            > ;) maybe by the time we reach 38 yrs of married life, we will be thinking
                                                                                                                                            > like Harry :D
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Nim
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                            > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                            > Behalf Of Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                            > Sent: 15 April 2005 18:37
                                                                                                                                            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - Windfall/ Who's always right , men or
                                                                                                                                            > women.?
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > i've only been married for 2 years but i know that men & women both think
                                                                                                                                            > they're always right. as
                                                                                                                                            > long as you allow each other to think that then you're both happy! =)
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > --- Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > > You are OK Harry.  No wonder you have been married 38 years.  Smiles to
                                                                                                                                            > you and your wife. I
                                                                                                                                            > > call it the "Dance" Evita
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:After being married for 38
                                                                                                                                            > years I have found that
                                                                                                                                            > > intelligent women let the man think he is always right and do it their way
                                                                                                                                            > anyhow. The
                                                                                                                                            > > intelligent man will keep his mouth shut and realize he is being shown
                                                                                                                                            > some respect. The secret
                                                                                                                                            > > to a long releationship is called "duck and weave"
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > Harry
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
                                                                                                                                            > > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
                                                                                                                                            > > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
                                                                                                                                            > > Errr. Slight correction: Its women who think MEN ARE ALLWAYS WRONG
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Nim
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                            > Behalf Of Evita
                                                                                                                                            > > Sent: 15 April 2005 11:51
                                                                                                                                            > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Windfall
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Actually it is more like MEN ALWAY HAVE TO THINK THEY ARE RIGHT.  Evita
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > I back up the comment too, MEN ARE ALWAYS RIGHT, for obvious reasons
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > = Nick
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > No need to end the relationship, but the man is always right.
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > Notice my name is Patrick, not Patricia. :)
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > >Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                            > > .
                                                                                                                                            > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                            > the reply and if
                                                                                                                                            > > changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e.
                                                                                                                                            > "new subject (was re:
                                                                                                                                            > > old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                                                            > > Make Yahoo! your home page
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                                                                                                                                            > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                            > > .
                                                                                                                                            > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
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                                                                                                                                            > > changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e.
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                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                            > > .
                                                                                                                                            > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
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                                                                                                                                            > > changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e.
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                                                                                                                                            > > old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                            > > old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                            > > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10499 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Strange bugs!
                                                                                                                                            They are a bit odd looking, kind of like a minitiature horse shoe crab.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Mike 
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                            From: Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...>
                                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Sent: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 12:35:16 +1000
                                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] Strange bugs!

                                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                            http://www.billabongbugs.com/gallery.htm
                                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                            Whilst at the Pet Expo on the weekend i saw these bug things, appartently 
                                                                                                                                            they will get eaten if put in a community aqurium.
                                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                            Funny things 
                                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                            
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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10500 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Strange bugs!
                                                                                                                                            Walmart sells them in a box you add water to them or something. I
                                                                                                                                            can't remember what they call them. They are in the fish section.


                                                                                                                                            > Whilst at the Pet Expo on the weekend i saw these bug things,
                                                                                                                                            appartently
                                                                                                                                            > they will get eaten if put in a community aqurium.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Funny things
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10501 From: Subodh Chand Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Natural Condition Fish Tanks
                                                                                                                                            I would totally agree with Harry that we are making
                                                                                                                                            the whole hobby of fishkeeping very technical. This is
                                                                                                                                            robbing it of the charm and the ease with which we
                                                                                                                                            should be able to keep most of the fishes. Except for
                                                                                                                                            a few 'exotic' varieties most of them especially the
                                                                                                                                            live bearers manage to stay healthy in a variety of
                                                                                                                                            water conditions and temperatures.
                                                                                                                                            The major reason for the different diseases is
                                                                                                                                            overcrowding that we all have got used to. This is
                                                                                                                                            then balanced by constant aeration, filtering and
                                                                                                                                            monitoring of nitrates, nitrites and so on. The ideal
                                                                                                                                            condition is to have a balanced aquarium with adequate
                                                                                                                                            plants and natural light to keep them growing. The
                                                                                                                                            fish waste is used up by the plants and the oxygen
                                                                                                                                            given by the plants is used by the fish. The whole
                                                                                                                                            thing is self sustaining and a pleasure to have.
                                                                                                                                            I would like to hear some of you who have tried this
                                                                                                                                            method and your feedback.
                                                                                                                                            Subodh, India




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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10502 From: paul helms Date: 4/18/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Natural Condition Fish Tanks
                                                                                                                                            i run a 30 gallon tank that is as natural as i am
                                                                                                                                            willing to make it. the only filter is an undergravel
                                                                                                                                            filter with a rena air air pump running three uplife
                                                                                                                                            tubes. it is natural gravel, quarried by lonestar,
                                                                                                                                            not a "natural" looking gravel, but a fine gravel
                                                                                                                                            called pebble beach sand. i have hornwart, anachris,
                                                                                                                                            apogea, a bannana like plant, a small java fern and a
                                                                                                                                            couple larger pieces of bowl rock with caves. i never
                                                                                                                                            do water changes, only top it off with distilled
                                                                                                                                            water, and occasionally dechlorinated tap water. i
                                                                                                                                            usually use the distilled soa s not to over feed the
                                                                                                                                            plants. i like them staying small and healthy instead
                                                                                                                                            of large and decaying i currently have 3 albino cori
                                                                                                                                            cats, 2 greens, 2 peppered, at least 3 years old, a
                                                                                                                                            kuhli loach 3 years old, a 2 year old clown loach, 2
                                                                                                                                            4+ inch plecos, a 3 year old ghost shrimp, 6 female
                                                                                                                                            guppies, 1 male guppy, a bunch of fry, and 100's of
                                                                                                                                            malayan trumpet snails. i really hate to admit that
                                                                                                                                            this take is a condensed 55 gallon setup. i got rid
                                                                                                                                            of some of the gravel and bowl rock, and moved down to
                                                                                                                                            this 30 gallon. the part that i don't usually fess up
                                                                                                                                            to is that this tan was started and 50% stocke dthe
                                                                                                                                            same day. not because i like to do it that way, but
                                                                                                                                            these fish needed a home. i dosed the tank every 2-3
                                                                                                                                            days for a month with stress zyme, and my guppies
                                                                                                                                            have an average life span of 2 1/2 years. they do not
                                                                                                                                            live aslong when they are breeding freely.
                                                                                                                                            --- Subodh Chand <subodhchand@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > I would totally agree with Harry that we are making
                                                                                                                                            > the whole hobby of fishkeeping very technical. This
                                                                                                                                            > is
                                                                                                                                            > robbing it of the charm and the ease with which we
                                                                                                                                            > should be able to keep most of the fishes. Except
                                                                                                                                            > for
                                                                                                                                            > a few 'exotic' varieties most of them especially the
                                                                                                                                            > live bearers manage to stay healthy in a variety of
                                                                                                                                            > water conditions and temperatures.
                                                                                                                                            > The major reason for the different diseases is
                                                                                                                                            > overcrowding that we all have got used to. This is
                                                                                                                                            > then balanced by constant aeration, filtering and
                                                                                                                                            > monitoring of nitrates, nitrites and so on. The
                                                                                                                                            > ideal
                                                                                                                                            > condition is to have a balanced aquarium with
                                                                                                                                            > adequate
                                                                                                                                            > plants and natural light to keep them growing. The
                                                                                                                                            > fish waste is used up by the plants and the oxygen
                                                                                                                                            > given by the plants is used by the fish. The whole
                                                                                                                                            > thing is self sustaining and a pleasure to have.
                                                                                                                                            > I would like to hear some of you who have tried this
                                                                                                                                            > method and your feedback.
                                                                                                                                            > Subodh, India
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                            > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                            > Make Yahoo! your home page
                                                                                                                                            > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                                                                                                                            >



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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10503 From: wendie Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Natural Condition Fish Tanks
                                                                                                                                            It sounds a lot like I used to do things back in the 50's and 60's.
                                                                                                                                            I never changed water, just added some when needed.  Had no
                                                                                                                                            problems growing plants in any type of gravel.  Didn't need to
                                                                                                                                            dechlorinate the water.  Had fish living 10 to 12 years.  Put them
                                                                                                                                            in a tank within hours of filling it....
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            When did things change so................
                                                                                                                                            Wendie
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                            From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                            Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:24 AM
                                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Natural Condition Fish Tanks

                                                                                                                                            i run a 30 gallon tank that is as natural as i am
                                                                                                                                            willing to make it.  the only filter is an undergravel
                                                                                                                                            filter with a rena air air pump running three uplife
                                                                                                                                            tubes.  it is natural gravel, quarried by lonestar,
                                                                                                                                            not a "natural" looking gravel, but a fine gravel
                                                                                                                                            called pebble beach sand.  i have hornwart, anachris,
                                                                                                                                            apogea, a bannana like plant, a small java fern and a
                                                                                                                                            couple larger pieces of bowl rock with caves. i never
                                                                                                                                            do water changes, only top it off with distilled
                                                                                                                                            water, and occasionally dechlorinated tap water. i
                                                                                                                                            usually use the distilled soa s not to over feed the
                                                                                                                                            plants.  i like them staying small and healthy instead
                                                                                                                                            of large and decaying  i currently have 3 albino cori
                                                                                                                                            cats, 2 greens, 2 peppered, at least 3 years old, a
                                                                                                                                            kuhli loach 3 years old, a 2 year old clown loach, 2
                                                                                                                                            4+ inch plecos, a 3 year old ghost shrimp, 6 female
                                                                                                                                            guppies, 1 male guppy, a bunch of fry, and 100's of
                                                                                                                                            malayan trumpet snails.  i really hate to admit that
                                                                                                                                            this take is a condensed 55 gallon setup.  i got rid
                                                                                                                                            of some of the gravel and bowl rock, and moved down to
                                                                                                                                            this 30 gallon. the part that i don't usually fess up
                                                                                                                                            to is that this tan was started and 50% stocke dthe
                                                                                                                                            same day.  not because i like to do it that way, but
                                                                                                                                            these fish needed a home.  i dosed the tank every 2-3
                                                                                                                                            days for a month with stress zyme,  and my guppies
                                                                                                                                            have an average life span of 2 1/2 years.  they do not
                                                                                                                                            live aslong when they are breeding freely.
                                                                                                                                            --- Subodh Chand <subodhchand@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > I would totally agree with Harry that we are making
                                                                                                                                            > the whole hobby of fishkeeping very technical. This
                                                                                                                                            > is
                                                                                                                                            > robbing it of the charm and the ease with which we
                                                                                                                                            > should be able to keep most of the fishes. Except
                                                                                                                                            > for
                                                                                                                                            > a few 'exotic' varieties most of them especially the
                                                                                                                                            > live bearers manage to stay healthy in a variety of
                                                                                                                                            > water conditions and temperatures.
                                                                                                                                            > The major reason for the different diseases is
                                                                                                                                            > overcrowding that we all have got used to. This is
                                                                                                                                            > then balanced by constant aeration, filtering and
                                                                                                                                            > monitoring of nitrates, nitrites and so on. The
                                                                                                                                            > ideal
                                                                                                                                            > condition is to have a balanced aquarium with
                                                                                                                                            > adequate
                                                                                                                                            > plants and natural light to keep them growing. The
                                                                                                                                            > fish waste is used up by the plants and the oxygen
                                                                                                                                            > given by the plants is used by the fish. The whole
                                                                                                                                            > thing is self sustaining and a pleasure to have.
                                                                                                                                            > I would like to hear some of you who have tried this
                                                                                                                                            > method and your feedback.
                                                                                                                                            > Subodh, India
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >            
                                                                                                                                            > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                            > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                            > Make Yahoo! your home page
                                                                                                                                            > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                                                                                                                            >


                                                                                                                                                       
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                                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10504 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info

                                                                                                                                            A General idea is that the fish or fish + snails or just snails alone will not produce more ammonia then the amount of food you give them. Yes, snails are big waste producers if they get a lot of food to eat. If the amount of food in the tank for the snails is limited, they will not spread like a plague and will not produce the excessive waste we are talking here. If however there is a lot of food available for the snails to consume, they will produce a lot of waste but not more then the waste that was already rotting away and has been processed by the snails. Dead snails however are the main cause for concern as in limited food environment, lot of pest snails are born and lot of them die. These dead snails are the ones that can spoil the water quality very fast.

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            My experience with MTS has been that MTS can control the populations of other snails as they can be opportunistic predators (not scavengers but predators – they can kill snails). And moreover, they keep the gravel churned but unfortunately, there is not much control on their population explosion. 6 months ago I started with 9 MTS and now have over a 1000 in a 29g tank with mbunas (about 20 fish in all). Only plant is an Anubias and I would assume that this tank would not last a week without needing a water change, but my feeding schedule is once in 2 days and it easily lasts 2-3 weeks before I need to do a 40% water change (BTW - This is not recommended).

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            Snails are not so horrible creatures in a tank and are the perfect scavengers for that odd bit if waste that is sitting somewhere in the tank waiting to rot away and spoil the water quality. Snails can control this waste and actually prevent the water quality from deteriorating fast. Yes, they do add on as an extra load.. but not without a benefit.

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                                            From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of agentscullyeyore@...
                                                                                                                                            Sent: 19 April 2005 01:58
                                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            me too I totally disagree I never had any tank issues then I put a few snails in and because they put out so much poop.. and much of it you can see  which is when you know it is bad I have to do 2 water changes a week.. I don't mind it though I choose to add them and I have developed  a love for them.. I just know that when I can I am going to have separate tanks.. and my experience has been that when they eat the lettuce they get less from it because they eat more and more comes out later lol... but with the cucumber I rarely see any poppies... but like I said I love my snails and have got many ppl to love them as well they are cool Shannon

                                                                                                                                            Hey, Clark, I disagree and I can prove it.  Both of the pics are 10 gallon tanks.  1 has a pleco, and 1 juvenile Betta and a bunch of those damn baby ramshorn snails that I can't get rid of and the other set up at the same time has 2 ramshorn and a betta you can't see.  Both get fed daily, and about the same amount of food except for the pleco.  Let me tell you the "dirty" one all murky and mucky...that would be from the snail waste...and I have 2 filters going, a box and whisper for a 10 gallon.   The other has a sponge filter.  NOW tell me that they aren't messy.  Oh and for the record they both get a 50% water change every week since one is my hospital tank and the other is for a home for the betta. 

                                                                                                                                            ~nan~

                                                                                                                                            clarkmariposo25@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 4/17/2005 3:40:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, FortWayneFish@... writes:

                                                                                                                                            Keep your snails and fish seperated. The snails are big waste producers, it will be a lot harder on you if they are not seperated.
                                                                                                                                            Keep a tight lid as the snails will get out of your tank, and they do crawl into the worst places.

                                                                                                                                            Sorry rob but I  disagree. I have snails and fish together. my fish are bigger waste producers then my snails. I never had a problem keeping the two together. you will want to put some lettuce in your tank attached to a veggie clip to keep your snails feed. You can also use zucchini, carrots and cucumber. The lid does not need to be tight but would suggest a lid so that the snails stay in the tank. Do not fill the tank entirely full, leave about an inch or two, so the snails can come up and breathe. The snails are fascinating little creatures. I hope you enjoy them but do go to applesnail.net to learn more.

                                                                                                                                             



                                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10505 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                            nim I have just learned what ou have said.. I have cut back half of what I was feeding my snails and the waste is like gone.. it is so nice.. but fear maybe they arnt getting enough so somehow I need to find a happy medium.... not sure how to tell when a snail is hungry you know.. Shannon

                                                                                                                                            General idea is that the fish or fish + snails or just snails alone will not produce more ammonia then the amount of food you give them. Yes, snails are big waste producers if they get a lot of food to eat. If the amount of food in the tank for the snails is limited, they will not spread like a plague and will not produce the excessive waste we are talking here. If however there is a lot of food available for the snails to consume, they will produce a lot of waste but not more then the waste that was already rotting away and has been processed by the snails. Dead snails however are the main cause for concern as in limited food environment, lot of pest snails are born and lot of them die. These dead snails are the ones that can spoil the water quality very fast.

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            My experience with MTS has been that MTS can control the populations of other snails as they can be opportunistic predators (not scavengers but predators – they can kill snails). And moreover, they keep the gravel churned but unfortunately, there is not much control on their population explosion. 6 months ago I started with 9 MTS and now have over a 1000 in a 29g tank with mbunas (about 20 fish in all). Only plant is an Anubias and I would assume that this tank would not last a week without needing a water change, but my feeding schedule is once in 2 days and it easily lasts 2-3 weeks before I need to do a 40% water change (BTW - This is not recommended).

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            Snails are not so horrible creatures in a tank and are the perfect scavengers for that odd bit if waste that is sitting somewhere in the tank waiting to rot away and spoil the water quality. Snails can control this waste and actually prevent the water quality from deteriorating fast. Yes, they do add on as an extra load.. but not without a benefit.

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10506 From: CIDAB Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Digest Number 719
                                                                                                                                            Discus can do well with a lot of tetras and cichlids, as well as
                                                                                                                                            bottom dwellers. More so if the tank is well planted.

                                                                                                                                            Jason of cidabase

                                                                                                                                            --- AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
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                                                                                                                                            --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > There are 25 messages in this issue.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Topics in this digest:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > 1. Re: Planning new tank
                                                                                                                                            > From: "cynthia brennemann" <brennewoman@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 2. Thanks all
                                                                                                                                            > From: "valbogert01" <valbogert01@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 3. Possible tank plan
                                                                                                                                            > From: "Tricia" <trycya@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 4. Do I need a powerhead?
                                                                                                                                            > From: "Eric Miner" <eminer1254@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 5. Re: Possible tank plan/Tricia
                                                                                                                                            > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 6. Re: Do I need a powerhead?
                                                                                                                                            > From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 7. Re: Thanks all
                                                                                                                                            > From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 8. Re: Re: Planning new tank
                                                                                                                                            > From: TankGurl <fishgoddess@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 9. Re: Re: Planning new tank
                                                                                                                                            > From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 10. Re: tank
                                                                                                                                            > From: FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                                            > 11. Re: Re: Planning new tank
                                                                                                                                            > From: FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                                            > 12. Re: tank
                                                                                                                                            > From: "Robert Hickey" <rhickey@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 13. Re: a Q on neons
                                                                                                                                            > From: Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 14. Re: Re: interesting saltwater fish
                                                                                                                                            > From: Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 15. Re: Re: Help Please!! Nitrate Problem/ High nitrates.
                                                                                                                                            > From: Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 16. Re: Blood Parrots * Pics
                                                                                                                                            > From: Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 17. Re: Blood Parrots * Pics
                                                                                                                                            > From: TankGurl <fishgoddess@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 18. Recommended Feeding
                                                                                                                                            > From: Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 19. Re: Recommended Feeding
                                                                                                                                            > From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 20. Re: a Q on neons
                                                                                                                                            > From: J G <sir_grubs47@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 21. Lebanese Fossil specimens at FANTASTIC prices........
                                                                                                                                            > From: "dmichaelschmidt1967" <dmichaelschmidt@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 22. Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                            > From: Nan <ntalb00@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 23. RE: FW: Eclipse 12
                                                                                                                                            > From: wendie <wendieo@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 24. Fish Books on EBay
                                                                                                                                            > From: "Nisbet Family \(Measham\)" <grnfield@...>
                                                                                                                                            > 25. Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                            > From: agentscullyeyore@...
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Message: 1
                                                                                                                                            > Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:18:41 -0000
                                                                                                                                            > From: "cynthia brennemann" <brennewoman@...>
                                                                                                                                            > Subject: Re: Planning new tank
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Well, Pooh. I like a tank with a wide variety of fish, not just
                                                                                                                                            > one
                                                                                                                                            > type. So discuss don't share tanks well?
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Message: 2
                                                                                                                                            > Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:13:01 -0000
                                                                                                                                            > From: "valbogert01" <valbogert01@...>
                                                                                                                                            > Subject: Thanks all
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Nice to know that I am not the only one who messes up. In response
                                                                                                                                            > to
                                                                                                                                            > some of the questions:
                                                                                                                                            > No live plants-I attempted it but it was a disaster.
                                                                                                                                            > The tank is a 10gal I am afraid if I add anymore fish to help with
                                                                                                                                            > the
                                                                                                                                            > Danios I would have an overload. They seem to only mess with the
                                                                                                                                            > White
                                                                                                                                            > Clouds and sometimes like to "school" with the otos. The last
                                                                                                                                            > endlers/guppy is on his last legs. I have a feeling that this was a
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > very old tank and the guppys that came with it are several years
                                                                                                                                            > old.
                                                                                                                                            > He has no spots, no nipped parts, he is just fading in color and
                                                                                                                                            > has a
                                                                                                                                            > very distended belly. He eats well.
                                                                                                                                            > Tonight I will be purchasing a better kit. I am thinking about
                                                                                                                                            > investing in a larger tank (29 gallon). That way I can get the
                                                                                                                                            > right
                                                                                                                                            > amount of fish so they will school. I will do a change tommorrow
                                                                                                                                            > morning and test the levels again and give a report.
                                                                                                                                            > Val
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Message: 3
                                                                                                                                            > Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:15:58 -0000
                                                                                                                                            > From: "Tricia" <trycya@...>
                                                                                                                                            > Subject: Possible tank plan
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > We have decided not to do a planted tank for our first tank,
                                                                                                                                            > hopefully
                                                                                                                                            > in a year or two things will be less hectic and will allow us the
                                                                                                                                            > time
                                                                                                                                            > to do and enjoy a planted tank, both time wise and financial wise.
                                                                                                                                            > Our plans are 3 ea (2 female 1 male) of guppies, swordtail, platy,
                                                                                                                                            > and
                                                                                                                                            > cherry barbs. 4 (3 female 1 male) of either corydora catfish or
                                                                                                                                            > otto,
                                                                                                                                            > not sure which are readily avail. here. 2 snails
                                                                                                                                            > As realistic as possible on the fake plants both bottom and
                                                                                                                                            > floating,
                                                                                                                                            > drift wood and caves. Debating on a bottom bubble maker. The tank
                                                                                                                                            > is
                                                                                                                                            > 29 Gallons. In total this would be 16 fish and 2 snails. There
                                                                                                                                            > has
                                                                                                                                            > also been some thought of maybe 3 (2 female and 1 male) fancy type
                                                                                                                                            > gold fish (pref. not the puffy eyed ones though). The hopes are to
                                                                                                                                            > be
                                                                                                                                            > able to get the fish all approx the same size. Will these fish be
                                                                                                                                            > able to live in a community together? At this time we are hoping
                                                                                                                                            > to
                                                                                                                                            > have plenty of hiding places for the frys and such since we did not
                                                                                                                                            > have the ability to have a 2nd tank for a nursery.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                            > Tricia
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Message: 4
                                                                                                                                            > Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:17:33 -0000
                                                                                                                                            > From: "Eric Miner" <eminer1254@...>
                                                                                                                                            > Subject: Do I need a powerhead?
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Hello All,
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > I've ordered my tank a 46 gl. Oceanic bow, gotten my power filter a
                                                                                                                                            > Penguin 350, a good lighting system and heater. So, I'm moving
                                                                                                                                            > along
                                                                                                                                            > in my planning phase.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > I'm wondering if I need a powerhead too. I've read that some fish
                                                                                                                                            > like
                                                                                                                                            > a little extra current (I'm planning Diamond Tetras, Harlequins and
                                                                                                                                            > Panda Corrys) I've also read on the web that some people feel it's
                                                                                                                                            > a
                                                                                                                                            > good idea to add a bit of current in the lower levels of the tank.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > So, my questions are –
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > 1.Do the fish I listed like a little extra current?
                                                                                                                                            > 2.Does it help to have a little current in the lower levels of the
                                                                                                                                            > tank?
                                                                                                                                            > 3.Will such a current have any positive or negative affects on
                                                                                                                                            > plants?
                                                                                                                                            > 4.How is the strength of a powerhead measured?
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Eric
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            === message truncated ===
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10507 From: harry perry Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Natural Condition Fish Tanks/Things change? or do they?/Dear We
                                                                                                                                            I don't have an adversion to change just because I'm 60. I have an adversion to the market place driving my hobby and "experts" doing my thinking for me. At 58 I became a certified scuba diver. I learned a lot. Where I dive, no one was testing the water, no one was changing it and it didn't have a filter. Most of the fish were below the thermocline. Every fisherman will tell you fish don't go below the thermocline. Common sense comes into play. If there are too many fish there is too much waste. If there isn't any  live plants there could be a problem. I am a member of all the aquarium groups. I love to learn. Some folks are setting up new tanks with a bare bottom and just java moss and putting fish in after a few days. One group has been running 10 gal sw tanks with sponge filters for years. If you ask how to set up a sw tank you will get: 55 gal. min, protein skimmers, pre filters, uv sterilizers hundreds of dollars worth of equipment. I am not suggesting we endander our fish by not changing our ways. I'm suggesting we think for ourselves. If the info is available by all means use it. The net and groups like this are a very valauable resource. People helping people, it doesn't get any better than that. The only rule is, there are no rules. Maybe things didn't change maybe just our perception of what is needed changed. There are many people in these groups that simple don't have the money to do all these things. Should they stay out of the hobby? When fish keeping first started people were making their own tanks and heating them with candles. Somehow the hobby survived.  I was told that just because I did it doesn't mean I should. I'm sorry, I lost my rule book years ago.  
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Harry
                                                                                                                                            Not really a rebel, just a fiesty old man. 

                                                                                                                                            wendie <wendieo@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            It sounds a lot like I used to do things back in the 50's and 60's.
                                                                                                                                            I never changed water, just added some when needed.  Had no
                                                                                                                                            problems growing plants in any type of gravel.  Didn't need to
                                                                                                                                            dechlorinate the water.  Had fish living 10 to 12 years.  Put them
                                                                                                                                            in a tank within hours of filling it....
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            When did things change so................
                                                                                                                                            Wendie
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                            From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                            Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:24 AM
                                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Natural Condition Fish Tanks

                                                                                                                                            i run a 30 gallon tank that is as natural as i am
                                                                                                                                            willing to make it.  the only filter is an undergravel
                                                                                                                                            filter with a rena air air pump running three uplife
                                                                                                                                            tubes.  it is natural gravel, quarried by lonestar,
                                                                                                                                            not a "natural" looking gravel, but a fine gravel
                                                                                                                                            called pebble beach sand.  i have hornwart, anachris,
                                                                                                                                            apogea, a bannana like plant, a small java fern and a
                                                                                                                                            couple larger pieces of bowl rock with caves. i never
                                                                                                                                            do water changes, only top it off with distilled
                                                                                                                                            water, and occasionally dechlorinated tap water. i
                                                                                                                                            usually use the distilled soa s not to over feed the
                                                                                                                                            plants.  i like them staying small and healthy instead
                                                                                                                                            of large and decaying  i currently have 3 albino cori
                                                                                                                                            cats, 2 greens, 2 peppered, at least 3 years old, a
                                                                                                                                            kuhli loach 3 years old, a 2 year old clown loach, 2
                                                                                                                                            4+ inch plecos, a 3 year old ghost shrimp, 6 female
                                                                                                                                            guppies, 1 male guppy, a bunch of fry, and 100's of
                                                                                                                                            malayan trumpet snails.  i really hate to admit that
                                                                                                                                            this take is a condensed 55 gallon setup.  i got rid
                                                                                                                                            of some of the gravel and bowl rock, and moved down to
                                                                                                                                            this 30 gallon. the part that i don't usually fess up
                                                                                                                                            to is that this tan was started and 50% stocke dthe
                                                                                                                                            same day.  not because i like to do it that way, but
                                                                                                                                            these fish needed a home.  i dosed the tank every 2-3
                                                                                                                                            days for a month with stress zyme,  and my guppies
                                                                                                                                            have an average life span of 2 1/2 years.  they do not
                                                                                                                                            live aslong when they are breeding freely.
                                                                                                                                            --- Subodh Chand <subodhchand@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > I would totally agree with Harry that we are making
                                                                                                                                            > the whole hobby of fishkeeping very technical. This
                                                                                                                                            > is
                                                                                                                                            > robbing it of the charm and the ease with which we
                                                                                                                                            > should be able to keep most of the fishes. Except
                                                                                                                                            > for
                                                                                                                                            > a few 'exotic' varieties most of them especially the
                                                                                                                                            > live bearers manage to stay healthy in a variety of
                                                                                                                                            > water conditions and temperatures.
                                                                                                                                            > The major reason for the different diseases is
                                                                                                                                            > overcrowding that we all have got used to. This is
                                                                                                                                            > then balanced by constant aeration, filtering and
                                                                                                                                            > monitoring of nitrates, nitrites and so on. The
                                                                                                                                            > ideal
                                                                                                                                            > condition is to have a balanced aquarium with
                                                                                                                                            > adequate
                                                                                                                                            > plants and natural light to keep them growing. The
                                                                                                                                            > fish waste is used up by the plants and the oxygen
                                                                                                                                            > given by the plants is used by the fish. The whole
                                                                                                                                            > thing is self sustaining and a pleasure to have.
                                                                                                                                            > I would like to hear some of you who have tried this
                                                                                                                                            > method and your feedback.
                                                                                                                                            > Subodh, India
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >            
                                                                                                                                            > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                            > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                            > Make Yahoo! your home page
                                                                                                                                            > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                                                                                                                            >


                                                                                                                                                       
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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10508 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Dealer Question
                                                                                                                                            Has anyone ever heard of Turquoise Waters Inc.? 
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10509 From: wizzbaf Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Natural Condition Fish Tanks/Things change? or do they?/Dear We
                                                                                                                                            I agree, Harry. Hi everyone. I'm new to the group and have enjoyed
                                                                                                                                            the banter.

                                                                                                                                            I'm going to get back into raising fancy goldfish again after 20
                                                                                                                                            years... and plan to (at first) do it the way I did then. Over
                                                                                                                                            filtration, most likly what everyone would consider over crowding,
                                                                                                                                            regular feeding, and a partial water change every quarter. I'm
                                                                                                                                            starting out with a 20Tall because that is what I have room for at
                                                                                                                                            present. Okay, I've moved and water conditions will probably be a
                                                                                                                                            little different. But with a little common sense, my new family
                                                                                                                                            will come through it all!

                                                                                                                                            You see... I've NEVER had a rule book to lose <LOL>!

                                                                                                                                            Sam

                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry
                                                                                                                                            <harryfisherman@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > I don't have an adversion to change just because I'm 60. I have an
                                                                                                                                            adversion to the market place driving my hobby and "experts" doing
                                                                                                                                            my thinking for me. At 58 I became a certified scuba diver. I
                                                                                                                                            learned a lot. Where I dive, no one was testing the water, no one
                                                                                                                                            was changing it and it didn't have a filter. Most of the fish were
                                                                                                                                            below the thermocline. Every fisherman will tell you fish don't go
                                                                                                                                            below the thermocline. Common sense comes into play. If there are
                                                                                                                                            too many fish there is too much waste. If there isn't any live
                                                                                                                                            plants there could be a problem. I am a member of all the aquarium
                                                                                                                                            groups. I love to learn. Some folks are setting up new tanks with a
                                                                                                                                            bare bottom and just java moss and putting fish in after a few days.
                                                                                                                                            One group has been running 10 gal sw tanks with sponge filters for
                                                                                                                                            years. If you ask how to set up a sw tank you will get: 55 gal. min,
                                                                                                                                            protein skimmers, pre filters, uv sterilizers hundreds of dollars
                                                                                                                                            worth of equipment. I am not suggesting we endander our fish by
                                                                                                                                            > not changing our ways. I'm suggesting we think for ourselves. If
                                                                                                                                            the info is available by all means use it. The net and groups like
                                                                                                                                            this are a very valauable resource. People helping people, it
                                                                                                                                            doesn't get any better than that. The only rule is, there are no
                                                                                                                                            rules. Maybe things didn't change maybe just our perception of what
                                                                                                                                            is needed changed. There are many people in these groups that simple
                                                                                                                                            don't have the money to do all these things. Should they stay out of
                                                                                                                                            the hobby? When fish keeping first started people were making their
                                                                                                                                            own tanks and heating them with candles. Somehow the hobby
                                                                                                                                            survived. I was told that just because I did it doesn't mean I
                                                                                                                                            should. I'm sorry, I lost my rule book years ago.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Harry
                                                                                                                                            > Not really a rebel, just a fiesty old man.
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10510 From: Eric Miner Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Cleaning rocks
                                                                                                                                            Hello All,

                                                                                                                                            I have some great rocks I'd like to use in my tank. I found them near
                                                                                                                                            my home. They're beautiful pieces of glacial granite. But, they have
                                                                                                                                            millennia of deposits on them. I've tried a wire brush on a drill and
                                                                                                                                            that has taken care of a lot of the deposits. But, it looks like it's
                                                                                                                                            also leaving a metal deposit behind. Does anyone have a suggestion
                                                                                                                                            about how to clean rocks?

                                                                                                                                            Thanks

                                                                                                                                            Eric
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10511 From: TankGurl Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Cleaning rocks
                                                                                                                                            On 4/19/05, Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                            > I have some great rocks I'd like to use in my tank. I found them near
                                                                                                                                            > my home. They're beautiful pieces of glacial granite. But, they have
                                                                                                                                            > millennia of deposits on them. I've tried a wire brush on a drill and
                                                                                                                                            > that has taken care of a lot of the deposits. But, it looks like it's
                                                                                                                                            > also leaving a metal deposit behind. Does anyone have a suggestion

                                                                                                                                            I just cleaned 160 pounds of limestone for my new tank, most of which
                                                                                                                                            had sat out all season in the winter conditions (Ontario) and it had
                                                                                                                                            some moss and black fungus covering large portions of it, plus alot of
                                                                                                                                            dirt.

                                                                                                                                            In a large bucket or storage bin, do a 10% bleach 90% water combo and
                                                                                                                                            soak the rocks over night, or longer if possible. It's easier if you
                                                                                                                                            can put the bin or bucket in a shower or tub, or near an outside hose
                                                                                                                                            before loading the rocks in. After the lapsed time and another good
                                                                                                                                            scrub, turn on shower/tub/hose and run a constant rinse over the rocks
                                                                                                                                            until the scent of bleach disappears. (I did 3-4 hours of rinsing)

                                                                                                                                            Let rocks dry for at least 48 hrs. The key is making sure all the
                                                                                                                                            bleach is rinsed off. During the process it should kill any harmful
                                                                                                                                            deposits. You might want to find out what kind of rocks they are, as
                                                                                                                                            they may leach chemicals/minerals overtime in the aquarium, no matter
                                                                                                                                            what you do prior.

                                                                                                                                            Good luck
                                                                                                                                            Kelly
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10512 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: a Q on neons
                                                                                                                                            i do believe glow-lights are schooling fish. 3 is fine, but i think the ideal for schooling is 6.
                                                                                                                                            if you have room for 6 then i would try 6. if not, i think 3 will also work well for you. i have 2
                                                                                                                                            glow-lights in one of my tanks with 3 rummy-nose tetras and i often see all 5 school together.
                                                                                                                                            when i had the cardinal tetras in the same tank they also schooled with the other 5 tetras.

                                                                                                                                            from my experience with diff. kinds of tetras they do seem happier in larger schooling groups, but
                                                                                                                                            also do well in smaller quantities if there are also diff. compatible kinds of tetras in the tank
                                                                                                                                            with them.

                                                                                                                                            --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                            > ok, so they're prob glow=lights then... cause they are most certainly not pink. yes, they look
                                                                                                                                            > like neons in that they have a stripe of color running down their middle - but are missing the
                                                                                                                                            > extra color streak that my blue neons do. thanks for the heads up. Are they schoolers too?
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > I prob should get another one of them to make a school (isnt a school 3 or more of the same?).
                                                                                                                                            > Or would they be happy with just the 2 of them & their similar looking neons... they've seemed
                                                                                                                                            > to kind of enjoy swimming around with them, though they often will be seen swimming togehter (or
                                                                                                                                            > maybe with just one of the blue guys)...
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Thanks
                                                                                                                                            > ~J
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > the only orange tetras i know of are glow-light tetras. are they sort of transparent with an
                                                                                                                                            > orange stripe running down their middle? if so they sound like glow-lights. and i don't think
                                                                                                                                            > they're actually a neon, rather are a different kind of tetra.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > i have some glow-lights and they're hardy little guys. definitely fatter than neons. i don't
                                                                                                                                            > have
                                                                                                                                            > neons anymore, but i have cardinal tetras, which are smaller than the glow-lights and seem more
                                                                                                                                            > delicate.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > > ok, I know neons are schoolers... so I got 4 of them
                                                                                                                                            > > to keep them happy. I was cleaning up some stuff & I
                                                                                                                                            > > found my wal-mart recepit from when I got the neons &
                                                                                                                                            > > I noticed 2 different kinds were listed. I had bought
                                                                                                                                            > > 2 orange ones & a blue one (already had a blue one in
                                                                                                                                            > > my tank). so my Q is... are the orange & blue ones
                                                                                                                                            > > really 2 different types of neons? Or maybe it was
                                                                                                                                            > > just wally worlds way of keeping track of how many of
                                                                                                                                            > > each color they have in stock... I have noticed often
                                                                                                                                            > > the two orange and the 2 blue will break off & swim
                                                                                                                                            > > around together...just wonderin. This is the first
                                                                                                                                            > > time I've really had anything but bettas so...
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > BTW found out female bettas & neons dont mix...
                                                                                                                                            > > unless your planning on serving the bettas lunch...
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                            > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                            > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
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                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Friends Don't Let Friends Drink Starbucks!
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if
                                                                                                                                            > changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re:
                                                                                                                                            > old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                            I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10513 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Recommended Feeding
                                                                                                                                            do you think it matters if it's morning or evening feeding? i already fed all of them this morning
                                                                                                                                            so will not feed tonight.

                                                                                                                                            --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                            > yes once a day, and skip a day occasionally
                                                                                                                                            > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > > Hi,
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > I have a question about feeding. I normally feed all
                                                                                                                                            > > my fish (3 diff. kinds of tetras, 1 angel, 2
                                                                                                                                            > > dwarf gouramis, 4 male bettas and 1 sw fish-an
                                                                                                                                            > > ocellaris clown) 2 times per day in all the
                                                                                                                                            > > different tanks they're housed in. The bettas get
                                                                                                                                            > > 2-3 Hikari betta pellets each feeding time and
                                                                                                                                            > > the rest of the fw fish get a small amount of flakes
                                                                                                                                            > > each time. The sw fish gets frozen mysis
                                                                                                                                            > > shrimp. Should I be feeding only 1 time per day, or
                                                                                                                                            > > even less often like a few times per week
                                                                                                                                            > > only?
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > The angel and all the tetras have been with me since
                                                                                                                                            > > November I believe. I believe all the bettas
                                                                                                                                            > > are fully matured: 1 has been with me since October,
                                                                                                                                            > > 1 since November, 1 since Feb. and 1 since
                                                                                                                                            > > March. 1 of the gouramis also looks fully matured, I
                                                                                                                                            > > just got him from a friend who had had him
                                                                                                                                            > > for an unknown amount of time. The other dwarf
                                                                                                                                            > > gourami I just got on Sunday from PetCo. I'm not
                                                                                                                                            > > sure his age but he's maybe 1.5 inches long?
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Thanks in advance,
                                                                                                                                            > > Valeen
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                            I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10514 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Cleaning rocks
                                                                                                                                            I do the same with ornaments that have fungus on them but I was told to soak in water conditioner like stress coat for twice as long as soaked in the bleach... I have heard bad stories of ppl not getting all the bleach out and killing all the fish... Shannon
                                                                                                                                            On 4/19/05, Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                            > I have some great rocks I'd like to use in my tank. I found them near
                                                                                                                                            > my home. They're beautiful pieces of glacial granite. But, they have
                                                                                                                                            > millennia of deposits on them. I've tried a wire brush on a drill and
                                                                                                                                            > that has taken care of a lot of the deposits. But, it looks like it's
                                                                                                                                            > also leaving a metal deposit behind. Does anyone have a suggestion

                                                                                                                                            I just cleaned 160 pounds of limestone for my new tank, most of which
                                                                                                                                            had sat out all season in the winter conditions (Ontario) and it had
                                                                                                                                            some moss and black fungus covering large portions of it, plus alot of
                                                                                                                                            dirt.

                                                                                                                                            In a large bucket or storage bin, do a 10% bleach 90% water combo and
                                                                                                                                            soak the rocks over night, or longer if possible. It's easier if you
                                                                                                                                            can put the bin or bucket in a shower or tub, or near an outside hose
                                                                                                                                            before loading the rocks in. After the lapsed time and another good
                                                                                                                                            scrub, turn on shower/tub/hose and run a constant rinse over the rocks
                                                                                                                                            until the scent of bleach disappears. (I did 3-4 hours of rinsing)

                                                                                                                                            Let rocks dry for at least 48 hrs. The key is making sure all the
                                                                                                                                            bleach is rinsed off. During the process it should kill any harmful
                                                                                                                                            deposits. You might want to find out what kind of rocks they are, as
                                                                                                                                            they may leach chemicals/minerals overtime in the aquarium, no matter
                                                                                                                                            what you do prior.

                                                                                                                                            Good luck
                                                                                                                                            Kelly
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10515 From: J G Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: a Q on neons
                                                                                                                                            hmm, I might get another neon & a nother glow-light
                                                                                                                                            then. That'll bring the collective group up to 6 (3
                                                                                                                                            of each) & they dont seem to have too much of a
                                                                                                                                            problem schooling together. I got another fish that
                                                                                                                                            they tend to like to school with on occasion. He was
                                                                                                                                            a free gift when they got an african dwarf frog out
                                                                                                                                            for me, he ended up gettin in the net while they were
                                                                                                                                            fetching out the frog. I think he's a blue tiger
                                                                                                                                            barb. For awhile it was just the 4 tetras & the barb
                                                                                                                                            along with a pelco so I guess the 5 got to be good
                                                                                                                                            friends & would swim around with each other. I've
                                                                                                                                            since added 3 fancy tail guppies & 2 small angle fish.
                                                                                                                                            Was so tempted to get another guppy or two or some
                                                                                                                                            other kind of fish, but figured I had enough in there
                                                                                                                                            for now...


                                                                                                                                            --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                            > i do believe glow-lights are schooling fish. 3 is
                                                                                                                                            > fine, but i think the ideal for schooling is 6.
                                                                                                                                            > if you have room for 6 then i would try 6. if not, i
                                                                                                                                            > think 3 will also work well for you. i have 2
                                                                                                                                            > glow-lights in one of my tanks with 3 rummy-nose
                                                                                                                                            > tetras and i often see all 5 school together.
                                                                                                                                            > when i had the cardinal tetras in the same tank they
                                                                                                                                            > also schooled with the other 5 tetras.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > from my experience with diff. kinds of tetras they
                                                                                                                                            > do seem happier in larger schooling groups, but
                                                                                                                                            > also do well in smaller quantities if there are also
                                                                                                                                            > diff. compatible kinds of tetras in the tank
                                                                                                                                            > with them.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > > ok, so they're prob glow=lights then... cause
                                                                                                                                            > they are most certainly not pink. yes, they look
                                                                                                                                            > > like neons in that they have a stripe of color
                                                                                                                                            > running down their middle - but are missing the
                                                                                                                                            > > extra color streak that my blue neons do. thanks
                                                                                                                                            > for the heads up. Are they schoolers too?
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > I prob should get another one of them to make a
                                                                                                                                            > school (isnt a school 3 or more of the same?).
                                                                                                                                            > > Or would they be happy with just the 2 of them &
                                                                                                                                            > their similar looking neons... they've seemed
                                                                                                                                            > > to kind of enjoy swimming around with them, though
                                                                                                                                            > they often will be seen swimming togehter (or
                                                                                                                                            > > maybe with just one of the blue guys)...
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Thanks
                                                                                                                                            > > ~J
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > > the only orange tetras i know of are glow-light
                                                                                                                                            > tetras. are they sort of transparent with an
                                                                                                                                            > > orange stripe running down their middle? if so
                                                                                                                                            > they sound like glow-lights. and i don't think
                                                                                                                                            > > they're actually a neon, rather are a different
                                                                                                                                            > kind of tetra.
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > i have some glow-lights and they're hardy little
                                                                                                                                            > guys. definitely fatter than neons. i don't
                                                                                                                                            > > have
                                                                                                                                            > > neons anymore, but i have cardinal tetras, which
                                                                                                                                            > are smaller than the glow-lights and seem more
                                                                                                                                            > > delicate.
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > ok, I know neons are schoolers... so I got 4 of
                                                                                                                                            > them
                                                                                                                                            > > > to keep them happy. I was cleaning up some
                                                                                                                                            > stuff & I
                                                                                                                                            > > > found my wal-mart recepit from when I got the
                                                                                                                                            > neons &
                                                                                                                                            > > > I noticed 2 different kinds were listed. I had
                                                                                                                                            > bought
                                                                                                                                            > > > 2 orange ones & a blue one (already had a blue
                                                                                                                                            > one in
                                                                                                                                            > > > my tank). so my Q is... are the orange & blue
                                                                                                                                            > ones
                                                                                                                                            > > > really 2 different types of neons? Or maybe it
                                                                                                                                            > was
                                                                                                                                            > > > just wally worlds way of keeping track of how
                                                                                                                                            > many of
                                                                                                                                            > > > each color they have in stock... I have noticed
                                                                                                                                            > often
                                                                                                                                            > > > the two orange and the 2 blue will break off &
                                                                                                                                            > swim
                                                                                                                                            > > > around together...just wonderin. This is the
                                                                                                                                            > first
                                                                                                                                            > > > time I've really had anything but bettas so...
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > BTW found out female bettas & neons dont mix...
                                                                                                                                            > > > unless your planning on serving the bettas
                                                                                                                                            > lunch...
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > >
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                                                                                                                                            > when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                            > > .
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                                                                                                                                            > that is not important to the reply and if
                                                                                                                                            > > changing the topic of the original message modify
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                                                                                                                                            > > old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for
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                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >


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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10516 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
                                                                                                                                            I have several questions I hope you will help me with.  First, I have a 5 gallon minibow with a goldfish in it.  I'll add a snail and frog later.  It's a small goldfish, a  Shubukin.  Can I add another later, or will that push me over?
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Second question, I'm trying to add a slice of cucumber to each of my tanks, one community with various tetras, zebra danios, cories, a violet goby, frogs, large snail, guppies and a Columbian shark, and the other an African cichlid and pleco.  How do you anchor it?  I've stabbed it with some leftover air tubing and stuck it under a rock.  Will this work, or is there a better way?  I don't want to put anything in there that will hurt my fish.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Thanks so much for all your help.  I've been on this list and have had an aquarium since Christmas and just love it.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Angela in Richmond, VA
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10517 From: Nan Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                            When I said hard to get rid of, I was talking about finding someone to take them off my hands..*LOL* I hope I didn't sound like I was trying to kill them off.  I don't like to kill other things at all, however, I know that it is sometimes neccessary.  With the snails I have put them up for bid on Aquabid, and my LPS won't take them till they are about the size of a quarter.  I am just impatient to get them out of my tanks is all.*LOL* I do wish you well, and I hope they all do well for you.  Good luck with your venture, I will be eager to hear how it is going.  And if I run across anymore good snail sites, I will be sure to pass them on to you!
                                                                                                                                            ~nan~

                                                                                                                                            mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                            Thats ok I was just curious. I so far haven't tried to get rid of them
                                                                                                                                            but I'm sure when the day comes it will be hard. I plan on keeping the
                                                                                                                                            mystery snails in there own tank ( the ones I plan on trading ). So it
                                                                                                                                            should be easy to clean them out when needed and there clumps of eggs
                                                                                                                                            are easy to find so I shouldn't have a problem if I don't want them
                                                                                                                                            anymore. I checked the applesnail site and will check the other site
                                                                                                                                            listed now. Thanks again I hope I do well with this.


                                                                                                                                            > That I couldn't tell you.  I am not an expert, but I can tell you
                                                                                                                                            that they are very hard to get rid of.  I like the Mystery snails
                                                                                                                                            better than the ramshorn because it takes two to breed, which makes it
                                                                                                                                            very, very nice because you can seperate them when you have too many.
                                                                                                                                            However, with Rams it only takes one...*LOL*.....I would go to the
                                                                                                                                            http://www.applesnail.net/   she is very informative, as well as the
                                                                                                                                            other link I sent you.. http://home.mchsi.com/~masts/index.html   .  I
                                                                                                                                            email the site owner, Susan is her name, and ask her all kinds of
                                                                                                                                            questions.  Good luck to your adventures with snails!
                                                                                                                                            > ~nan~
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > I have some red ramshorns in my 10 gallon tank and take out the eggs
                                                                                                                                            > every time I see them. Thanks for the info on chicken egg shells I've
                                                                                                                                            > never heard that. Yeah I figured they would have to be atleast a
                                                                                                                                            > nickel size or bigger before I traded them out. I also have quite a
                                                                                                                                            > few mts in both my tanks I actually like them. How come other snails
                                                                                                                                            > breed and have no problems just put them in a tank but the mystery
                                                                                                                                            > snails need such care with ph, calcium and all that. Just curious.






                                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                                            ~nan and crew~
                                                                                                                                            Rome, GA
                                                                                                                                            bettas and soon we add guppys!


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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10518 From: Nan Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                            Nimish,
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            I am not argueing that snails in moderation do not have benefits, however, if you are breeding the little buggers it is a totally different story, what alot of people didn't tell me was that they are big waste producers.  Now I feed mine daily 1 slice (the thickness is about the width of a pencil eraser) of zuccinni, 1 slice of cucumber, and 1 slice of yellow crookneck squash as well as 2 algea wafers.  And, my pleco eats a bit of everything, but if you watch him as I have, whatever he is eating, the snails are hanging on and eating as well.  By the time a 1/2 hour has gone by the 20 snails that are in the tank have clouded the water very badly.    For just general, having one or two per tank for tank matience they are fine, but when breeding them people in general should be aware of how badly they can destroy your water.  And I have thinned down the amount per tank so that it isn't as badly and isn't killing off fish.  But this is what happened to me:
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            I had them in my 10 gallon greenwater tank that I use for my fry with a small box filter, half of the filter being carbon, 1/2 being filter floss.....fed the fry, 250 newly hatched Paradise fry and 21  3 week old bettas (which were comeing out the next morning anyway, and the paradise fry, being newly hatched were staying for a week before being divided!) with about 15 snails....got up the next morning and my water was cloudy, all the live babies were on top of the water gasping for air,  and about 1/2 of my fry population was dead.  The snails were down to 10 survivors because they practially killed themselves. I have 3 ghost shrimp in there to help with tank maintence.....dead.  What did I feed them?   3 algea wafers, and the fed the fry Golden Pearls Decapped BBS eggs and Larval diet.  What happened?   All their waste killed my fish.  What has happened since?  They are more spread out, except for that one tank and they are more carefully monitored.  What is the moral? Don't put too many snails in with fry even if they keep the food from decaying because when they eat they let off alot of waste. 
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            I was not told this when I called my LPS and told them that I had clutches of eggs.  He said let them hatch and grow and he will take them off my hands for store credit.  Lovely, I can cut down on my overhead.............NOT.  Lost most of the fry, caused me to reset a tank that was perfect for my fry (greenwater being very good for them in the first months!), and take a step backward in my breeding program.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            I went in with not enough information and learned the hard way,  and I was just trying to share a bit of information with those who wanted it, so they wouldn't make the same mistakes as I did.  Also, she is talking about Apple Snails, and ramshorns are part of the Apple Snail family, and MTS are a much smaller and less prolific snail I have found than the ramshorn, or at least the one I had.  She had 6 clutches (one per week) until she died within that time.  I have not had my MTS long enough to have baby snails, or if I have within the last 3 weeks, I still can't see them!  I can't comment on the MTS, because I haven't had as much time with them yet as I have had with the Ramshorn and my Golden Apples.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            ~nan~


                                                                                                                                            Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                            A General idea is that the fish or fish + snails or just snails alone will not produce more ammonia then the amount of food you give them. Yes, snails are big waste producers if they get a lot of food to eat. If the amount of food in the tank for the snails is limited, they will not spread like a plague and will not produce the excessive waste we are talking here. If however there is a lot of food available for the snails to consume, they will produce a lot of waste but not more then the waste that was already rotting away and has been processed by the snails. Dead snails however are the main cause for concern as in limited food environment, lot of pest snails are born and lot of them die. These dead snails are the ones that can spoil the water quality very fast.

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            My experience with MTS has been that MTS can control the populations of other snails as they can be opportunistic predators (not scavengers but predators � they can kill snails). And moreover, they keep the gravel churned but unfortunately, there is not much control on their population explosion. 6 months ago I started with 9 MTS and now have over a 1000 in a 29g tank with mbunas (about 20 fish in all). Only plant is an Anubias and I would assume that this tank would not last a week without needing a water change, but my feeding schedule is once in 2 days and it easily lasts 2-3 weeks before I need to do a 40% water change (BTW - This is not recommended).

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            Snails are not so horrible creatures in a tank and are the perfect scavengers for that odd bit if waste that is sitting somewhere in the tank waiting to rot away and spoil the water quality. Snails can control this waste and actually prevent the water quality from deteriorating fast. Yes, they do add on as an extra load.. but not without a benefit.

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                             




                                                                                                                                             



                                                                                                                                            ~nan and crew~
                                                                                                                                            Rome, GA
                                                                                                                                            bettas and soon we add guppys!


                                                                                                                                            Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10519 From: helen572 Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
                                                                                                                                            Goldfish - do you know how big the shubukin gets? Goldfish can get
                                                                                                                                            big, so that would be a major factor. If they're not going to get any
                                                                                                                                            bigger than, say, 2-3 inches, I think two would be okay in a 5 gal. I
                                                                                                                                            don't know a whole lot about goldfish, so others here may be more helpful.
                                                                                                                                            Cucumber - I found a site on plecos which suggested rubberbanding the
                                                                                                                                            cucumber(or any other vegetable)to a small rock.

                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > I have several questions I hope you will help me with. First, I
                                                                                                                                            have a 5 gallon minibow with a goldfish in it. I'll add a snail and
                                                                                                                                            frog later. It's a small goldfish, a Shubukin. Can I add another
                                                                                                                                            later, or will that push me over?
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Second question, I'm trying to add a slice of cucumber to each of my
                                                                                                                                            tanks, one community with various tetras, zebra danios, cories, a
                                                                                                                                            violet goby, frogs, large snail, guppies and a Columbian shark, and
                                                                                                                                            the other an African cichlid and pleco. How do you anchor it? I've
                                                                                                                                            stabbed it with some leftover air tubing and stuck it under a rock.
                                                                                                                                            Will this work, or is there a better way? I don't want to put
                                                                                                                                            anything in there that will hurt my fish.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Thanks so much for all your help. I've been on this list and have
                                                                                                                                            had an aquarium since Christmas and just love it.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Angela in Richmond, VA
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10520 From: princezzuno Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Hello All
                                                                                                                                            Hello All!
                                                                                                                                            I am a new member. I am currently keeping Africans, livebearers,
                                                                                                                                            tetras, South American Cichlids,birchirs, bettas, eels, botia,
                                                                                                                                            syndontis, and goldfish! I am breeding my livebearers and bettas.
                                                                                                                                            I ran a petstore for 5 years.
                                                                                                                                            I love all my animals and think of them as family. I am crazy.
                                                                                                                                            So, I hope to be a valuable part of this group and have lots of fun!!!
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10521 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
                                                                                                                                            I'm considering eventually building a goldfish pond in my yard.  How long do you guys think I have before my goldfish are too big?  The one I have is about 1 1/2 inches, including the tail.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                            Goldfish - do you know how big the shubukin gets?  Goldfish can get
                                                                                                                                            big, so that would be a major factor. If they're not going to get any
                                                                                                                                            bigger than, say, 2-3 inches, I think two would be okay in a 5 gal. I
                                                                                                                                            don't know a whole lot about goldfish, so others here may be more helpful.
                                                                                                                                            Cucumber - I found a site on plecos which suggested rubberbanding the
                                                                                                                                            cucumber(or any other vegetable)to a small rock. 

                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > I have several questions I hope you will help me with.  First, I
                                                                                                                                            have a 5 gallon minibow with a goldfish in it.  I'll add a snail and
                                                                                                                                            frog later.  It's a small goldfish, a  Shubukin.  Can I add another
                                                                                                                                            later, or will that push me over?
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10522 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
                                                                                                                                            totally depends on how big the pond is going to be.. make sure when posting a question you include all info that we need to be privy to to be able to give you a accurate response.. shannon
                                                                                                                                            I'm considering eventually building a goldfish pond in my yard.  How long do you guys think I have before my goldfish are too big?  The one I have is about 1 1/2 inches, including the tail.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10523 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
                                                                                                                                            I said I was considering building a goldfish pond in my yard down the road.  Therefore, I have no specifications as to the size.  I guess that would be part of any assistance I can get from the people on this list who have experience with such issues.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Angela
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                            totally depends on how big the pond is going to be.. make sure when posting a question you include all info that we need to be privy to to be able to give you a accurate response.. shannon
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10524 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
                                                                                                                                            Fancy goldfish get to about 10 inches, some get to 2 feet.  Most people never see goldfish that large because they kill or stunt them.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                            Goldfish - do you know how big the shubukin gets?  Goldfish can get
                                                                                                                                            big, so that would be a major factor. If they're not going to get any
                                                                                                                                            bigger than, say, 2-3 inches, I think two would be okay in a 5 gal. I
                                                                                                                                            don't know a whole lot about goldfish, so others here may be more helpful.
                                                                                                                                            Cucumber - I found a site on plecos which suggested rubberbanding the
                                                                                                                                            cucumber(or any other vegetable)to a small rock.
                                                                                                                                            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10525 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
                                                                                                                                            The largest shubunkin I have seen was a Japanese shubunkin at about 8" SL. I
                                                                                                                                            would suspect they may get larger than this, but no maximum size sticks in
                                                                                                                                            my mind.

                                                                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                            From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                            Behalf Of helen572
                                                                                                                                            Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 7:46 PM
                                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions



                                                                                                                                            Goldfish - do you know how big the shubukin gets? Goldfish can get
                                                                                                                                            big, so that would be a major factor. If they're not going to get any
                                                                                                                                            bigger than, say, 2-3 inches, I think two would be okay in a 5 gal. I
                                                                                                                                            don't know a whole lot about goldfish, so others here may be more helpful.
                                                                                                                                            Cucumber - I found a site on plecos which suggested rubberbanding the
                                                                                                                                            cucumber(or any other vegetable)to a small rock.

                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > I have several questions I hope you will help me with. First, I
                                                                                                                                            have a 5 gallon minibow with a goldfish in it. I'll add a snail and
                                                                                                                                            frog later. It's a small goldfish, a Shubukin. Can I add another
                                                                                                                                            later, or will that push me over?
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Second question, I'm trying to add a slice of cucumber to each of my
                                                                                                                                            tanks, one community with various tetras, zebra danios, cories, a
                                                                                                                                            violet goby, frogs, large snail, guppies and a Columbian shark, and
                                                                                                                                            the other an African cichlid and pleco. How do you anchor it? I've
                                                                                                                                            stabbed it with some leftover air tubing and stuck it under a rock.
                                                                                                                                            Will this work, or is there a better way? I don't want to put
                                                                                                                                            anything in there that will hurt my fish.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Thanks so much for all your help. I've been on this list and have
                                                                                                                                            had an aquarium since Christmas and just love it.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Angela in Richmond, VA
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10526 From: Amalthea Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
                                                                                                                                            if kept well, they grow REALLY quickly. we adopted a pair that were
                                                                                                                                            about the size of yours early on in winter hoping to release them into
                                                                                                                                            the pond this spring, and now the larger is about 7" and the smaller
                                                                                                                                            one is about 5" and they're REALLY fat (and filthy!)
                                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                                            Get em' while they're cheap!
                                                                                                                                            Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the
                                                                                                                                            Basement....
                                                                                                                                            http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop
                                                                                                                                            On Apr 19, 2005, at 9:04 PM, angelasjenkins@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                            > I'm considering eventually building a goldfish pond in my yard.  How
                                                                                                                                            > long do you guys think I have before my goldfish are too big?  The one
                                                                                                                                            > I have is about 1 1/2 inches, including the tail.
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            >> -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                            >> Goldfish - do you know how big the shubukin gets?  Goldfish can get
                                                                                                                                            >> big, so that would be a major factor. If they're not going to get any
                                                                                                                                            >> bigger than, say, 2-3 inches, I think two would be okay in a 5 gal. I
                                                                                                                                            >> don't know a whole lot about goldfish, so others here may be more
                                                                                                                                            >> helpful.
                                                                                                                                            >> Cucumber - I found a site on plecos which suggested rubberbanding the
                                                                                                                                            >> cucumber(or any other vegetable)to a small rock. 
                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                            >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >> > I have several questions I hope you will help me with.  First, I
                                                                                                                                            >> have a 5 gallon minibow with a goldfish in it.  I'll add a snail and
                                                                                                                                            >> frog later.  It's a small goldfish, a  Shubukin.  Can I add another
                                                                                                                                            >> later, or will that push me over?
                                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                            > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                            > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                            > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                            > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                                                                                            > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                            > Service.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10527 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                            Ok I see what you meant now, yeah here in my small town it might not
                                                                                                                                            be easy to get rid of them either but the pet stores are both in the
                                                                                                                                            next town over which is a bigger town. I love aquabid that's where I'm
                                                                                                                                            getting these eggs from. Thanks for the well wishes and I'll keep ya
                                                                                                                                            updated, it's gonna be a little bit before I actually get them, I'm
                                                                                                                                            gonna get everything I need and set up than she said she will send me
                                                                                                                                            some (of course when ever they are laid). Thanks and yup let me know
                                                                                                                                            if you find any more sites.


                                                                                                                                            > When I said hard to get rid of, I was talking about finding someone
                                                                                                                                            to take them off my hands..*LOL* I hope I didn't sound like I was
                                                                                                                                            trying to kill them off. I don't like to kill other things at all,
                                                                                                                                            however, I know that it is sometimes neccessary. With the snails I
                                                                                                                                            have put them up for bid on Aquabid, and my LPS won't take them till
                                                                                                                                            they are about the size of a quarter. I am just impatient to get them
                                                                                                                                            out of my tanks is all.*LOL* I do wish you well, and I hope they all
                                                                                                                                            do well for you. Good luck with your venture, I will be eager to hear
                                                                                                                                            how it is going. And if I run across anymore good snail sites, I will
                                                                                                                                            be sure to pass them on to you!
                                                                                                                                            > ~nan~
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Thats ok I was just curious. I so far haven't tried to get rid of them
                                                                                                                                            > but I'm sure when the day comes it will be hard. I plan on keeping the
                                                                                                                                            > mystery snails in there own tank ( the ones I plan on trading ). So it
                                                                                                                                            > should be easy to clean them out when needed and there clumps of eggs
                                                                                                                                            > are easy to find so I shouldn't have a problem if I don't want them
                                                                                                                                            > anymore. I checked the applesnail site and will check the other site
                                                                                                                                            > listed now. Thanks again I hope I do well with this.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10528 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
                                                                                                                                            Hi I been keeping goldfish since I was young, I am 27 now. I would advise Not to add another goldfish to your 5 gallon tank. goldfish need a lot of air space. if you add another one, i am pretty certain that one of them will die- the weaker one. shubunkins make good pond fish but if kept indoors they usually outgrow their living space quickly. so i hope you took this into consideration and are planning to upgrade to a bigger tank. if you do, I think adding another fish would be fine. Also plecos outgrow their tank too. if you need an algae eater consider buying a Siamese or Chinese algae eater or oto cat. They clean tanks better than the plecos and do not grow so large either. they grow to about the size of your middle fingers.
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10529 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                            Nan
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Feeding your fish everyday is producing all the waste as your pleco is too. You are feeding tooo much too. bettas should only be feeds every other day four pellets and that's all. My one pleco produces so much I need to do a water change everyweek. and by the way, I have about FOUR SNAILS in the tank and they are not big waste producers. my fish and pleco are! I still stand by what I said.
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10530 From: paul helms Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
                                                                                                                                            A, meaning 1, black moore would be fine in a 5 gallon
                                                                                                                                            --- helen572 <shirleycat@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Goldfish - do you know how big the shubukin gets?
                                                                                                                                            > Goldfish can get
                                                                                                                                            > big, so that would be a major factor. If they're not
                                                                                                                                            > going to get any
                                                                                                                                            > bigger than, say, 2-3 inches, I think two would be
                                                                                                                                            > okay in a 5 gal. I
                                                                                                                                            > don't know a whole lot about goldfish, so others
                                                                                                                                            > here may be more helpful.
                                                                                                                                            > Cucumber - I found a site on plecos which suggested
                                                                                                                                            > rubberbanding the
                                                                                                                                            > cucumber(or any other vegetable)to a small rock.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                            > angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > > I have several questions I hope you will help me
                                                                                                                                            > with. First, I
                                                                                                                                            > have a 5 gallon minibow with a goldfish in it. I'll
                                                                                                                                            > add a snail and
                                                                                                                                            > frog later. It's a small goldfish, a Shubukin.
                                                                                                                                            > Can I add another
                                                                                                                                            > later, or will that push me over?
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Second question, I'm trying to add a slice of
                                                                                                                                            > cucumber to each of my
                                                                                                                                            > tanks, one community with various tetras, zebra
                                                                                                                                            > danios, cories, a
                                                                                                                                            > violet goby, frogs, large snail, guppies and a
                                                                                                                                            > Columbian shark, and
                                                                                                                                            > the other an African cichlid and pleco. How do you
                                                                                                                                            > anchor it? I've
                                                                                                                                            > stabbed it with some leftover air tubing and stuck
                                                                                                                                            > it under a rock.
                                                                                                                                            > Will this work, or is there a better way? I don't
                                                                                                                                            > want to put
                                                                                                                                            > anything in there that will hurt my fish.
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Thanks so much for all your help. I've been on
                                                                                                                                            > this list and have
                                                                                                                                            > had an aquarium since Christmas and just love it.
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Angela in Richmond, VA
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >



                                                                                                                                            __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10531 From: paul helms Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Recommended Feeding
                                                                                                                                            does not matter, in fact change it up!
                                                                                                                                            --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > do you think it matters if it's morning or evening
                                                                                                                                            > feeding? i already fed all of them this morning
                                                                                                                                            > so will not feed tonight.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > > yes once a day, and skip a day occasionally
                                                                                                                                            > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                            > wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > > > Hi,
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > I have a question about feeding. I normally feed
                                                                                                                                            > all
                                                                                                                                            > > > my fish (3 diff. kinds of tetras, 1 angel, 2
                                                                                                                                            > > > dwarf gouramis, 4 male bettas and 1 sw fish-an
                                                                                                                                            > > > ocellaris clown) 2 times per day in all the
                                                                                                                                            > > > different tanks they're housed in. The bettas
                                                                                                                                            > get
                                                                                                                                            > > > 2-3 Hikari betta pellets each feeding time and
                                                                                                                                            > > > the rest of the fw fish get a small amount of
                                                                                                                                            > flakes
                                                                                                                                            > > > each time. The sw fish gets frozen mysis
                                                                                                                                            > > > shrimp. Should I be feeding only 1 time per day,
                                                                                                                                            > or
                                                                                                                                            > > > even less often like a few times per week
                                                                                                                                            > > > only?
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > The angel and all the tetras have been with me
                                                                                                                                            > since
                                                                                                                                            > > > November I believe. I believe all the bettas
                                                                                                                                            > > > are fully matured: 1 has been with me since
                                                                                                                                            > October,
                                                                                                                                            > > > 1 since November, 1 since Feb. and 1 since
                                                                                                                                            > > > March. 1 of the gouramis also looks fully
                                                                                                                                            > matured, I
                                                                                                                                            > > > just got him from a friend who had had him
                                                                                                                                            > > > for an unknown amount of time. The other dwarf
                                                                                                                                            > > > gourami I just got on Sunday from PetCo. I'm not
                                                                                                                                            > > > sure his age but he's maybe 1.5 inches long?
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > Thanks in advance,
                                                                                                                                            > > > Valeen
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                            > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                            > > Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over
                                                                                                                                            > 17,000 guides!
                                                                                                                                            > > http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >



                                                                                                                                            __________________________________
                                                                                                                                            Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                            Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10532 From: paul helms Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Cleaning rocks
                                                                                                                                            soak them in buckets for 2-3 weeks with a power head.
                                                                                                                                            change water every 3-4 days
                                                                                                                                            --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Hello All,
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > I have some great rocks I'd like to use in my tank.
                                                                                                                                            > I found them near
                                                                                                                                            > my home. They're beautiful pieces of glacial
                                                                                                                                            > granite. But, they have
                                                                                                                                            > millennia of deposits on them. I've tried a wire
                                                                                                                                            > brush on a drill and
                                                                                                                                            > that has taken care of a lot of the deposits. But,
                                                                                                                                            > it looks like it's
                                                                                                                                            > also leaving a metal deposit behind. Does anyone
                                                                                                                                            > have a suggestion
                                                                                                                                            > about how to clean rocks?
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Thanks
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Eric
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >



                                                                                                                                            __________________________________
                                                                                                                                            Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                            Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
                                                                                                                                            http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10533 From: paul helms Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Natural Condition Fish Tanks
                                                                                                                                            when the constant interbreeding of fish and constant
                                                                                                                                            drop in water quality occured
                                                                                                                                            --- wendie <wendieo@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                            > It sounds a lot like I used to do things back in the
                                                                                                                                            > 50's and 60's.
                                                                                                                                            > I never changed water, just added some when needed.
                                                                                                                                            > Had no
                                                                                                                                            > problems growing plants in any type of gravel.
                                                                                                                                            > Didn't need to
                                                                                                                                            > dechlorinate the water. Had fish living 10 to 12
                                                                                                                                            > years. Put them
                                                                                                                                            > in a tank within hours of filling it....
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > When did things change so................
                                                                                                                                            > Wendie
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                            > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]On
                                                                                                                                            > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                            > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:24 AM
                                                                                                                                            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Natural Condition Fish
                                                                                                                                            > Tanks
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > i run a 30 gallon tank that is as natural as i am
                                                                                                                                            > willing to make it. the only filter is an
                                                                                                                                            > undergravel
                                                                                                                                            > filter with a rena air air pump running three
                                                                                                                                            > uplife
                                                                                                                                            > tubes. it is natural gravel, quarried by
                                                                                                                                            > lonestar,
                                                                                                                                            > not a "natural" looking gravel, but a fine gravel
                                                                                                                                            > called pebble beach sand. i have hornwart,
                                                                                                                                            > anachris,
                                                                                                                                            > apogea, a bannana like plant, a small java fern
                                                                                                                                            > and a
                                                                                                                                            > couple larger pieces of bowl rock with caves. i
                                                                                                                                            > never
                                                                                                                                            > do water changes, only top it off with distilled
                                                                                                                                            > water, and occasionally dechlorinated tap water. i
                                                                                                                                            > usually use the distilled soa s not to over feed
                                                                                                                                            > the
                                                                                                                                            > plants. i like them staying small and healthy
                                                                                                                                            > instead
                                                                                                                                            > of large and decaying i currently have 3 albino
                                                                                                                                            > cori
                                                                                                                                            > cats, 2 greens, 2 peppered, at least 3 years old,
                                                                                                                                            > a
                                                                                                                                            > kuhli loach 3 years old, a 2 year old clown loach,
                                                                                                                                            > 2
                                                                                                                                            > 4+ inch plecos, a 3 year old ghost shrimp, 6
                                                                                                                                            > female
                                                                                                                                            > guppies, 1 male guppy, a bunch of fry, and 100's
                                                                                                                                            > of
                                                                                                                                            > malayan trumpet snails. i really hate to admit
                                                                                                                                            > that
                                                                                                                                            > this take is a condensed 55 gallon setup. i got
                                                                                                                                            > rid
                                                                                                                                            > of some of the gravel and bowl rock, and moved
                                                                                                                                            > down to
                                                                                                                                            > this 30 gallon. the part that i don't usually fess
                                                                                                                                            > up
                                                                                                                                            > to is that this tan was started and 50% stocke
                                                                                                                                            > dthe
                                                                                                                                            > same day. not because i like to do it that way,
                                                                                                                                            > but
                                                                                                                                            > these fish needed a home. i dosed the tank every
                                                                                                                                            > 2-3
                                                                                                                                            > days for a month with stress zyme, and my guppies
                                                                                                                                            > have an average life span of 2 1/2 years. they do
                                                                                                                                            > not
                                                                                                                                            > live aslong when they are breeding freely.
                                                                                                                                            > --- Subodh Chand <subodhchand@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > > I would totally agree with Harry that we are
                                                                                                                                            > making
                                                                                                                                            > > the whole hobby of fishkeeping very technical.
                                                                                                                                            > This
                                                                                                                                            > > is
                                                                                                                                            > > robbing it of the charm and the ease with which
                                                                                                                                            > we
                                                                                                                                            > > should be able to keep most of the fishes.
                                                                                                                                            > Except
                                                                                                                                            > > for
                                                                                                                                            > > a few 'exotic' varieties most of them especially
                                                                                                                                            > the
                                                                                                                                            > > live bearers manage to stay healthy in a variety
                                                                                                                                            > of
                                                                                                                                            > > water conditions and temperatures.
                                                                                                                                            > > The major reason for the different diseases is
                                                                                                                                            > > overcrowding that we all have got used to. This
                                                                                                                                            > is
                                                                                                                                            > > then balanced by constant aeration, filtering
                                                                                                                                            > and
                                                                                                                                            > > monitoring of nitrates, nitrites and so on. The
                                                                                                                                            > > ideal
                                                                                                                                            > > condition is to have a balanced aquarium with
                                                                                                                                            > > adequate
                                                                                                                                            > > plants and natural light to keep them growing.
                                                                                                                                            > The
                                                                                                                                            > > fish waste is used up by the plants and the
                                                                                                                                            > oxygen
                                                                                                                                            > > given by the plants is used by the fish. The
                                                                                                                                            > whole
                                                                                                                                            > > thing is self sustaining and a pleasure to have.
                                                                                                                                            > > I would like to hear some of you who have tried
                                                                                                                                            > this
                                                                                                                                            > > method and your feedback.
                                                                                                                                            > > Subodh, India
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                            > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                            > > Make Yahoo! your home page
                                                                                                                                            > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10534 From: paul helms Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Lebanese Fossil specimens at FANTASTIC prices........
                                                                                                                                            unless you have thousands of dolars to spend forget it
                                                                                                                                            lol
                                                                                                                                            --- dmichaelschmidt1967 <dmichaelschmidt@...>
                                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > I have some VERY nice Lebanese fossil material at
                                                                                                                                            > some very, very low
                                                                                                                                            > prices. There are a number of different types of
                                                                                                                                            > bony fish, sharks,
                                                                                                                                            > skates, and misc. unidentified/undescribed material.
                                                                                                                                            > The prices on
                                                                                                                                            > some of it is less than what I was buying specimens
                                                                                                                                            > for at the
                                                                                                                                            > quarries in Lebanon last spring. So, if any of you
                                                                                                                                            > would be
                                                                                                                                            > interested in havings some 100 million year old
                                                                                                                                            > fossilsied examples of
                                                                                                                                            > what you currently have in your tanks, please let me
                                                                                                                                            > know!
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > If you are interested in seeing the complete listing
                                                                                                                                            > of what is
                                                                                                                                            > available, please send me an email (off-list,
                                                                                                                                            > preferably), and I will
                                                                                                                                            > send it off to you. There are some VERY rare fish
                                                                                                                                            > on this list.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Thanks
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Michael
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >



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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10535 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Hello All
                                                                                                                                            Hi,
                                                                                                                                            Welcome to the group! You will fit in just fine.
                                                                                                                                            Dorothy

                                                                                                                                            princezzuno <princezzuno@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                            Hello All!
                                                                                                                                            I am a new member.  I am currently keeping Africans, livebearers,
                                                                                                                                            tetras, South American Cichlids,birchirs, bettas, eels, botia,
                                                                                                                                            syndontis, and goldfish!  I am breeding my livebearers and bettas. 
                                                                                                                                            I ran a petstore for 5 years.
                                                                                                                                            I love all my animals and think of them as family.  I am crazy.
                                                                                                                                            So, I hope to be a valuable part of this group and have lots of fun!!!





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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10536 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/19/2005
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                              I feed big cucumbers,squash, etc to my tanks, I shove a spoon handle through it and let it sink to bottom..
                                                                                                                                              remove whats not eaten in 24-48 hrs If you let it stay to long it becomes really soggy and starts falling apart..

                                                                                                                                              if pics are allowed enclosed is a pic of what i am talking about ...





                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 4/19/2005 6:48:08 PM US Eastern Standard Time, shirleycat@bellsouth.net writes:


                                                                                                                                              I found a site on plecos which suggested rubberbanding the
                                                                                                                                              cucumber(or any other vegetable)to a small rock. 


                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10537 From: wjcoldman Date: 4/20/2005
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Out side pond
                                                                                                                                              I am going to start a pond outside this weekend. I plan on it being
                                                                                                                                              around 10ft around and 6-8 ft deep in the middle. I have a large field
                                                                                                                                              in my back yard that has several springs in it and it is always wet so
                                                                                                                                              I hope it makes a good pond area. Any thoughts or suggestions would be
                                                                                                                                              appreciated. The main purpose of the pond will be to collect the water
                                                                                                                                              in one area and hopefully my local wild life will hang around also.
                                                                                                                                              Always several deer and other animals outback.

                                                                                                                                              Let me know whay you think or any ideas.

                                                                                                                                              Thanks,
                                                                                                                                              wjcoldman
                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10538 From: infomehlb Date: 4/20/2005
                                                                                                                                              Subject: What is the best Canister filter?
                                                                                                                                              I will be setting up a 75g planted tank with flourite and compressed
                                                                                                                                              CO2. I have a Fluval 404 but would like an additional canister for
                                                                                                                                              redundancy.
                                                                                                                                              Thanks
                                                                                                                                              Elwin
                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10539 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 4/20/2005
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Out side pond
                                                                                                                                              Welp, I'm just now getting into ponding myself, not quite that big, but I
                                                                                                                                              would think you might wanna test the spring water thats already there to
                                                                                                                                              make sure its safe for fish if you plan on adding any.


                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: "wjcoldman" <wjcoldman@...>
                                                                                                                                              To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:25 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Out side pond


                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > I am going to start a pond outside this weekend. I plan on it being
                                                                                                                                              > around 10ft around and 6-8 ft deep in the middle. I have a large field
                                                                                                                                              > in my back yard that has several springs in it and it is always wet so
                                                                                                                                              > I hope it makes a good pond area. Any thoughts or suggestions would be
                                                                                                                                              > appreciated. The main purpose of the pond will be to collect the water
                                                                                                                                              > in one area and hopefully my local wild life will hang around also.
                                                                                                                                              > Always several deer and other animals outback.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Let me know whay you think or any ideas.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                              > wjcoldman
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                              > .
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                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 10540 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 4/20/2005
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Strange bugs!
                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                Aren't these the same thing as the brine shrimp? Also what do they feed them?
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Date: 04/18/05 16:33:50
                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Strange bugs!
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                http://www.billabongbugs.com/gallery.htm


                                                                                                                                                Whilst at the Pet Expo on the weekend i saw these bug things, appartently
                                                                                                                                                they will get eaten if put in a community aqurium.

                                                                                                                                                Funny things



                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                ..
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10541 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
                                                                                                                                                that is a good idea... might have to think about doing that I hate the veggie clips.. Shannon
                                                                                                                                                I feed big cucumbers,squash, etc to my tanks, I shove a spoon handle through it and let it sink to bottom..
                                                                                                                                                remove whats not eaten in 24-48 hrs If you let it stay to long it becomes really soggy and starts falling apart..

                                                                                                                                                if pics are allowed enclosed is a pic of what i am talking about ...
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10542 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Cleaning rocks
                                                                                                                                                >turn on shower/tub/hose and run a constant rinse over the rocks
                                                                                                                                                > until the scent of bleach disappears. (I did 3-4 hours of rinsing)

                                                                                                                                                3 to 4 hours is a long time, i havn't tried but presumably you could use
                                                                                                                                                the clorine get rid of chemicals the same ones you treat your tap water
                                                                                                                                                with.

                                                                                                                                                ???
                                                                                                                                                =Nick

                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                From: "TankGurl" <fishgoddess@...>
                                                                                                                                                To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 5:39 AM
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cleaning rocks


                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > On 4/19/05, Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >> I have some great rocks I'd like to use in my tank. I found them near
                                                                                                                                                >> my home. They're beautiful pieces of glacial granite. But, they have
                                                                                                                                                >> millennia of deposits on them. I've tried a wire brush on a drill and
                                                                                                                                                >> that has taken care of a lot of the deposits. But, it looks like it's
                                                                                                                                                >> also leaving a metal deposit behind. Does anyone have a suggestion
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > I just cleaned 160 pounds of limestone for my new tank, most of which
                                                                                                                                                > had sat out all season in the winter conditions (Ontario) and it had
                                                                                                                                                > some moss and black fungus covering large portions of it, plus alot of
                                                                                                                                                > dirt.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > In a large bucket or storage bin, do a 10% bleach 90% water combo and
                                                                                                                                                > soak the rocks over night, or longer if possible. It's easier if you
                                                                                                                                                > can put the bin or bucket in a shower or tub, or near an outside hose
                                                                                                                                                > before loading the rocks in. After the lapsed time and another good
                                                                                                                                                > scrub, turn on shower/tub/hose and run a constant rinse over the rocks
                                                                                                                                                > until the scent of bleach disappears. (I did 3-4 hours of rinsing)
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Let rocks dry for at least 48 hrs. The key is making sure all the
                                                                                                                                                > bleach is rinsed off. During the process it should kill any harmful
                                                                                                                                                > deposits. You might want to find out what kind of rocks they are, as
                                                                                                                                                > they may leach chemicals/minerals overtime in the aquarium, no matter
                                                                                                                                                > what you do prior.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Good luck
                                                                                                                                                > Kelly
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                > .
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                                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10543 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Out side pond
                                                                                                                                                If you plan on placing fish and/or plants in the pond, I'd reconsider my
                                                                                                                                                placement. The type of pond you are describing is not a closed system, and
                                                                                                                                                accidental releases are a very real possibility. Now, if you wish to use the
                                                                                                                                                springs as a water source, and divert the spring flows into the pond when
                                                                                                                                                needed, we may be talking something here. However, you do mention that there
                                                                                                                                                are several springs and the ground is wet, so you probably have a very high
                                                                                                                                                water table in the area, which would make excavating in that area a real
                                                                                                                                                challenge.

                                                                                                                                                I take it that you are not planning to liner the pond. This could present
                                                                                                                                                other problems down the road if you are keeping exotic (and by exotic, I
                                                                                                                                                mean not native) plants and animals in the pond.

                                                                                                                                                Why don't you try to articulate your plans a bit more here for the group,
                                                                                                                                                and with the more information, mayhap any pond gurus in the group can come
                                                                                                                                                forth with the pros and cons for your ideas. Having a pond is a wonderful
                                                                                                                                                thing, but you need to do it correctly, or you will come to grief.

                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                Behalf Of wjcoldman
                                                                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 3:26 PM
                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Out side pond




                                                                                                                                                I am going to start a pond outside this weekend. I plan on it being
                                                                                                                                                around 10ft around and 6-8 ft deep in the middle. I have a large field
                                                                                                                                                in my back yard that has several springs in it and it is always wet so
                                                                                                                                                I hope it makes a good pond area. Any thoughts or suggestions would be
                                                                                                                                                appreciated. The main purpose of the pond will be to collect the water
                                                                                                                                                in one area and hopefully my local wild life will hang around also.
                                                                                                                                                Always several deer and other animals outback.

                                                                                                                                                Let me know whay you think or any ideas.

                                                                                                                                                Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                wjcoldman
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10544 From: wjcoldman Date: 4/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Out side pond
                                                                                                                                                Steve,
                                                                                                                                                Good point. I donot plan to add any non-nativeplants or animals. My
                                                                                                                                                neighbor has a natural pond and he has told me I can have some
                                                                                                                                                marginal plants. As for fish I will add what ever I might catch this
                                                                                                                                                summer that is too small to eat. By the way I live in Ohio.
                                                                                                                                                Walter
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10545 From: wjcoldman Date: 4/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Cleaning rocks
                                                                                                                                                Hey,
                                                                                                                                                I have cleaned rock by soaking them in bleach. I let them set
                                                                                                                                                overnight in a 10% bleach solution. Then I rinsed them in running
                                                                                                                                                water 4-5 times and then let them sit in fresh water foa about 1-2 hrs
                                                                                                                                                at a time for 5-6 rinses. This took care of the bleach smell and I did
                                                                                                                                                not have any problems when I put them in my tanks. Hope this helps.
                                                                                                                                                Walter
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10546 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Natural Condition Fish Tanks
                                                                                                                                                I've tried that recently well the water straight into tank thing... the water turns a milky colour till all the clorine is eaten up by the declorinator left over from a previous water change..
                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                From: wendie
                                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:18 PM
                                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Natural Condition Fish Tanks

                                                                                                                                                It sounds a lot like I used to do things back in the 50's and 60's.
                                                                                                                                                I never changed water, just added some when needed.  Had no
                                                                                                                                                problems growing plants in any type of gravel.  Didn't need to
                                                                                                                                                dechlorinate the water.  Had fish living 10 to 12 years.  Put them
                                                                                                                                                in a tank within hours of filling it....
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                When did things change so................
                                                                                                                                                Wendie
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:24 AM
                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Natural Condition Fish Tanks

                                                                                                                                                i run a 30 gallon tank that is as natural as i am
                                                                                                                                                willing to make it.  the only filter is an undergravel
                                                                                                                                                filter with a rena air air pump running three uplife
                                                                                                                                                tubes.  it is natural gravel, quarried by lonestar,
                                                                                                                                                not a "natural" looking gravel, but a fine gravel
                                                                                                                                                called pebble beach sand.  i have hornwart, anachris,
                                                                                                                                                apogea, a bannana like plant, a small java fern and a
                                                                                                                                                couple larger pieces of bowl rock with caves. i never
                                                                                                                                                do water changes, only top it off with distilled
                                                                                                                                                water, and occasionally dechlorinated tap water. i
                                                                                                                                                usually use the distilled soa s not to over feed the
                                                                                                                                                plants.  i like them staying small and healthy instead
                                                                                                                                                of large and decaying  i currently have 3 albino cori
                                                                                                                                                cats, 2 greens, 2 peppered, at least 3 years old, a
                                                                                                                                                kuhli loach 3 years old, a 2 year old clown loach, 2
                                                                                                                                                4+ inch plecos, a 3 year old ghost shrimp, 6 female
                                                                                                                                                guppies, 1 male guppy, a bunch of fry, and 100's of
                                                                                                                                                malayan trumpet snails.  i really hate to admit that
                                                                                                                                                this take is a condensed 55 gallon setup.  i got rid
                                                                                                                                                of some of the gravel and bowl rock, and moved down to
                                                                                                                                                this 30 gallon. the part that i don't usually fess up
                                                                                                                                                to is that this tan was started and 50% stocke dthe
                                                                                                                                                same day.  not because i like to do it that way, but
                                                                                                                                                these fish needed a home.  i dosed the tank every 2-3
                                                                                                                                                days for a month with stress zyme,  and my guppies
                                                                                                                                                have an average life span of 2 1/2 years.  they do not
                                                                                                                                                live aslong when they are breeding freely.
                                                                                                                                                --- Subodh Chand <subodhchand@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > I would totally agree with Harry that we are making
                                                                                                                                                > the whole hobby of fishkeeping very technical. This
                                                                                                                                                > is
                                                                                                                                                > robbing it of the charm and the ease with which we
                                                                                                                                                > should be able to keep most of the fishes. Except
                                                                                                                                                > for
                                                                                                                                                > a few 'exotic' varieties most of them especially the
                                                                                                                                                > live bearers manage to stay healthy in a variety of
                                                                                                                                                > water conditions and temperatures.
                                                                                                                                                > The major reason for the different diseases is
                                                                                                                                                > overcrowding that we all have got used to. This is
                                                                                                                                                > then balanced by constant aeration, filtering and
                                                                                                                                                > monitoring of nitrates, nitrites and so on. The
                                                                                                                                                > ideal
                                                                                                                                                > condition is to have a balanced aquarium with
                                                                                                                                                > adequate
                                                                                                                                                > plants and natural light to keep them growing. The
                                                                                                                                                > fish waste is used up by the plants and the oxygen
                                                                                                                                                > given by the plants is used by the fish. The whole
                                                                                                                                                > thing is self sustaining and a pleasure to have.
                                                                                                                                                > I would like to hear some of you who have tried this
                                                                                                                                                > method and your feedback.
                                                                                                                                                > Subodh, India
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >            
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10547 From: William Autry Date: 4/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: saltwater help
                                                                                                                                                I put the salt water in my 30 gallon tank today and the Hydrometer
                                                                                                                                                reads 1.025 how do I get it bown to the right range
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10548 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: saltwater help
                                                                                                                                                Take some saltwater out and replace it with fresh.


                                                                                                                                                William Autry said:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > I put the salt water in my 30 gallon tank today and the Hydrometer
                                                                                                                                                > reads 1.025 how do I get it bown to the right range
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10549 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: upside down catfish and flower pots
                                                                                                                                                I have an upside down catfish and know they like things to swim in.  I bought two small terra cotta flower pots for the tank.  Now, what do I do?  How do I clean them and do I knock the end off?
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                Angela
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10550 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Recommended Feeding
                                                                                                                                                thanks, i will do that!

                                                                                                                                                --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                > does not matter, in fact change it up!
                                                                                                                                                > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > do you think it matters if it's morning or evening
                                                                                                                                                > > feeding? i already fed all of them this morning
                                                                                                                                                > > so will not feed tonight.
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > yes once a day, and skip a day occasionally
                                                                                                                                                > > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Hi,
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > I have a question about feeding. I normally feed
                                                                                                                                                > > all
                                                                                                                                                > > > > my fish (3 diff. kinds of tetras, 1 angel, 2
                                                                                                                                                > > > > dwarf gouramis, 4 male bettas and 1 sw fish-an
                                                                                                                                                > > > > ocellaris clown) 2 times per day in all the
                                                                                                                                                > > > > different tanks they're housed in. The bettas
                                                                                                                                                > > get
                                                                                                                                                > > > > 2-3 Hikari betta pellets each feeding time and
                                                                                                                                                > > > > the rest of the fw fish get a small amount of
                                                                                                                                                > > flakes
                                                                                                                                                > > > > each time. The sw fish gets frozen mysis
                                                                                                                                                > > > > shrimp. Should I be feeding only 1 time per day,
                                                                                                                                                > > or
                                                                                                                                                > > > > even less often like a few times per week
                                                                                                                                                > > > > only?
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > The angel and all the tetras have been with me
                                                                                                                                                > > since
                                                                                                                                                > > > > November I believe. I believe all the bettas
                                                                                                                                                > > > > are fully matured: 1 has been with me since
                                                                                                                                                > > October,
                                                                                                                                                > > > > 1 since November, 1 since Feb. and 1 since
                                                                                                                                                > > > > March. 1 of the gouramis also looks fully
                                                                                                                                                > > matured, I
                                                                                                                                                > > > > just got him from a friend who had had him
                                                                                                                                                > > > > for an unknown amount of time. The other dwarf
                                                                                                                                                > > > > gourami I just got on Sunday from PetCo. I'm not
                                                                                                                                                > > > > sure his age but he's maybe 1.5 inches long?
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Thanks in advance,
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Valeen
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                > > > Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over
                                                                                                                                                > > 17,000 guides!
                                                                                                                                                > > > http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                > Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
                                                                                                                                                > http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
                                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                                I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10551 From: Rachel Date: 4/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                my smaller black moore goldfish is floating on his side and his tail
                                                                                                                                                looks kind of frayed but its got red in it. and its not supposed to.
                                                                                                                                                my other fish looks fine but hes bigger. is there anything i can do to
                                                                                                                                                help?????
                                                                                                                                                i just quaranteened him.

                                                                                                                                                hes still alive.

                                                                                                                                                Rachel
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10552 From: Nan Date: 4/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                                Clark:
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                In my ten gallon I pictured I have 1 betta, 1 sailfin pleco and temporarily about 15-20 very young  ramshorn snails.  I know when to feed my betta, I know when to feed my pleco, and all are doing well, however, if you do some research, talk to people who have or is breeding them as I DIDN'T do (but should have done!), when you breed snails and they mulitply like mine had, in the tank size they are in and even feeding every OTHER day as you suggest they will have ALOT of waste!  Check with those who breed them.  I DIDN'T do my homework and I have found thru experience of more than 4 snails that in a small space they WILL produce ALOT of waste.  Let me know when YOU have a 10 gallon with 15-20 snails that you have to feed every other day and tell me how YOUR water looks like. 
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                ~nan~

                                                                                                                                                clarkmariposo25@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                Nan
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Feeding your fish everyday is producing all the waste as your pleco is too. You are feeding tooo much too. bettas should only be feeds every other day four pellets and that's all. My one pleco produces so much I need to do a water change everyweek. and by the way, I have about FOUR SNAILS in the tank and they are not big waste producers. my fish and pleco are! I still stand by what I said.

                                                                                                                                                __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10553 From: Nan Date: 4/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Goldfish and Cucumber Questions
                                                                                                                                                Cool!  Good idea, I hadn't thought of that....I was sticking it inside decorations for them to hunt for..*LOL*  And I have those clips with suction cups to hold onto the side of the tank that they use for fish that like the veggies.
                                                                                                                                                ~nan~

                                                                                                                                                FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                I feed big cucumbers,squash, etc to my tanks, I shove a spoon handle through it and let it sink to bottom..
                                                                                                                                                remove whats not eaten in 24-48 hrs If you let it stay to long it becomes really soggy and starts falling apart..

                                                                                                                                                if pics are allowed enclosed is a pic of what i am talking about ...





                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 4/19/2005 6:48:08 PM US Eastern Standard Time, shirleycat@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                I found a site on plecos which suggested rubberbanding the
                                                                                                                                                cucumber(or any other vegetable)to a small rock. 




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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10554 From: Norman. S. Hampson. Date: 4/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: saltwater help
                                                                                                                                                Hi William,
                                                                                                                                                If we are talking about a marine tank a SP
                                                                                                                                                of 1.025 is fine, I keep my marine tanks both FOWLR
                                                                                                                                                and reef at 34ppt which is between 1.025 and 1.026.
                                                                                                                                                regards,
                                                                                                                                                unclenorm.


                                                                                                                                                --- William Autry <paulandsue1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > I put the salt water in my 30 gallon tank today and
                                                                                                                                                > the Hydrometer
                                                                                                                                                > reads 1.025 how do I get it bown to the right range
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                                                Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10555 From: ericpeters3 Date: 4/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: new member
                                                                                                                                                hey everyone i'm a new memeber to the group and just extending a hello
                                                                                                                                                to everyone. i do both fresh and saltwater, i currently have 2
                                                                                                                                                saltwater aquariums and 4 freswater aquariums. in my one saltwater i
                                                                                                                                                have a yellow tang, gold banded maroon clown, rusty angel, copperband
                                                                                                                                                butterfly, and a comet (marine betta). they are all fantastic and i
                                                                                                                                                take much pride and joy in that tank. i also keep many other saltwater
                                                                                                                                                fish including, percula clowns, snowflake moray eels, foxface
                                                                                                                                                rabbitfish, cleaner shrimp, royal grammas, and i've had my fair share
                                                                                                                                                of gobies and blennies. i have over 100 pounds of nearly 6 year old
                                                                                                                                                premium fiji live rock that is flourishing with coraline algae,
                                                                                                                                                mushrooms, polyps, and all sorts of other good stuff. my freshwater
                                                                                                                                                tanks include tetras, platies, swordtails, many types of plecos,
                                                                                                                                                barbs, corys, catfish, sharks, and cichlids.
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10556 From: paul helms Date: 4/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: saltwater help
                                                                                                                                                1.025 is ok...you want it between 1.020 and 1.026
                                                                                                                                                --- William Autry <paulandsue1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > I put the salt water in my 30 gallon tank today and
                                                                                                                                                > the Hydrometer
                                                                                                                                                > reads 1.025 how do I get it bown to the right range
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >

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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10557 From: Jason Date: 4/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: fish catastrophe
                                                                                                                                                Hey, I've got a 40 gallon that was stocked with mollies, swordtails,
                                                                                                                                                and guppies with a big pleco and a lot of plants. I recently had a
                                                                                                                                                catastrophe. Everything except the pleco died within 3 days. All the
                                                                                                                                                fish (the swords and guppies were all bred and raised by me) and all
                                                                                                                                                the plants. The only thing that survived was the pleco, I guess it's
                                                                                                                                                one tough bastard. Anyone have any idea why? i'm at a total loss. I
                                                                                                                                                change 5 gallons a week, and I didn't do anything different, they just
                                                                                                                                                all died on my. The pleco did have pop eye for a few days after, but
                                                                                                                                                no other fish showed symptoms.
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10558 From: paul helms Date: 4/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: fish catastrophe
                                                                                                                                                did you test ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? what were
                                                                                                                                                they?

                                                                                                                                                --- Jason <thewahlrus@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Hey, I've got a 40 gallon that was stocked with
                                                                                                                                                > mollies, swordtails,
                                                                                                                                                > and guppies with a big pleco and a lot of plants. I
                                                                                                                                                > recently had a
                                                                                                                                                > catastrophe. Everything except the pleco died
                                                                                                                                                > within 3 days. All the
                                                                                                                                                > fish (the swords and guppies were all bred and
                                                                                                                                                > raised by me) and all
                                                                                                                                                > the plants. The only thing that survived was the
                                                                                                                                                > pleco, I guess it's
                                                                                                                                                > one tough bastard. Anyone have any idea why? i'm
                                                                                                                                                > at a total loss. I
                                                                                                                                                > change 5 gallons a week, and I didn't do anything
                                                                                                                                                > different, they just
                                                                                                                                                > all died on my. The pleco did have pop eye for a
                                                                                                                                                > few days after, but
                                                                                                                                                > no other fish showed symptoms.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >

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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10559 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: upside down catfish and flower pots
                                                                                                                                                Angela,

                                                                                                                                                When I get terra cotta pots from the store All I do is :
                                                                                                                                                rinse them under hot water to remove any residue  that  has collected on them.

                                                                                                                                                I then throw them into my tank..  Maybe i've been lucky or just special, but I have never had any problems doing it this way..

                                                                                                                                                as far as knocking the end out that is up to you. I have an Upside down that loves my strawberry planter ( terra cotta planter with holes)  but he/she also enjoys the inside of a rather large terra cotta pot with the end in it.

                                                                                                                                                Make it how you want it, and the fish will use it.

                                                                                                                                                rob
                                                                                                                                                indiana
                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 4/21/2005 5:16:00 PM US Eastern Standard Time, angelasjenkins@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                I have an upside down catfish and know they like things to swim in.  I bought two small terra cotta flower pots for the tank.  Now, what do I do?  How do I clean them and do I knock the end off?

                                                                                                                                                Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                Angela


                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10560 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!

                                                                                                                                                Try and see if he eats crushed deskinned green peas. This is a very common problem in goldfish and they need to be fed vegetable food very often to prevent bloat. I am sure he will live through this. Don’t create any major water movements as this will stress him further.

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Rachel
                                                                                                                                                Sent: 22 April 2005 01:57
                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!

                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                my smaller black moore goldfish is floating on his side and his tail
                                                                                                                                                looks kind of frayed but its got red in it. and its not supposed to.
                                                                                                                                                my other fish looks fine but hes bigger. is there anything i can do to
                                                                                                                                                help?????
                                                                                                                                                i just quaranteened him.

                                                                                                                                                hes still alive.

                                                                                                                                                Rachel





                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10561 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Cycle(and all the other additives...)
                                                                                                                                                This has probably been addressed, but what the heck. Cycle and all the
                                                                                                                                                others, with deference to Bio-Spira, are just enzymes that enhance the
                                                                                                                                                bacteria that break down waste. Bio-Spira is a live bacteria culture
                                                                                                                                                that is hard to find (it needs refrigeration and has a short shelf life,
                                                                                                                                                so most stores don't carry it). The Bio-Spira will cycle a tank to 3/4
                                                                                                                                                capacity after 2 weeks, profoundly speeding up the cycling of a tank.
                                                                                                                                                The bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrite colonize fairly quickly,
                                                                                                                                                but the bacteria that converts nitrite to nitrate takes quite a while to
                                                                                                                                                develop. I always use scuzzy old filter parts to colonise a new tank,
                                                                                                                                                sponges seem to work best, nice and crudded up. I have also heard very
                                                                                                                                                good thaings about Stablize (by Seachem, I think) but i haven't tried it
                                                                                                                                                myself, so I can only express what I've been told about it. I may try
                                                                                                                                                it with my next tank, since Bio-Spira is so freakin' hard to find.

                                                                                                                                                "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10562 From: TankGurl Date: 4/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Cycle(and all the other additives...)
                                                                                                                                                On 4/22/05, bucks_boogie@... <bucks_boogie@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                I may try
                                                                                                                                                > it with my next tank, since Bio-Spira is so freakin' hard to find.


                                                                                                                                                I just ordered some online for my new 135 gallon and it'll be arriving
                                                                                                                                                today. 48 hr delivery. Good price. International delivery. (I'm in
                                                                                                                                                Ontario)

                                                                                                                                                http://fishstoretn.com/bio_spira.html

                                                                                                                                                Kelly
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10563 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                Rachel, Hope your Black Moore is still hanging in there. The
                                                                                                                                                frayed, red-streaked fins are a sure sign of nitrite poisoning and/or
                                                                                                                                                septacemia (not the "Dropsey" form of bloat). You'll need to give
                                                                                                                                                the tank a large (80%) water change and add 2 tsp of Kosher or
                                                                                                                                                aquarium salt per gallon. If the fish is eating, give it medicated
                                                                                                                                                fish food, such as Jungle's Pepso food, to get antibiotics
                                                                                                                                                internally. Seems like the nitrites and/or ammonia have been
                                                                                                                                                building up through lack of sufficient water changes or possible
                                                                                                                                                overfeeding. After treatment, you will have to make larger water
                                                                                                                                                changes when you do this maintainence. I suspect your water is
                                                                                                                                                alkaline (possibly high pH ?) as that's when nitrite is most
                                                                                                                                                poisonous to fish. The salt will negate the poisonous effects of the
                                                                                                                                                ammonia/nitrite as it prevents the nitrite from being absorbed by the
                                                                                                                                                bloodstream. Ray
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > my smaller black moore goldfish is floating on his side and his
                                                                                                                                                tail
                                                                                                                                                > looks kind of frayed but its got red in it. and its not supposed
                                                                                                                                                to.
                                                                                                                                                > my other fish looks fine but hes bigger. is there anything i can do
                                                                                                                                                to
                                                                                                                                                > help?????
                                                                                                                                                > i just quaranteened him.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > hes still alive.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Rachel
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10564 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!

                                                                                                                                                Just slight corrections Ray, if you don’t mind J

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Ammonia is more toxic at high PH and nitrite toxicity does not have any major toxicity level change due to PH change. This is because ammonia is an Alkali itself and in low PH it tends to remain as Ammonium ions rather then Ammonia or organic ammonia complexes. Nitrites are basic salts and their levels etc. do not change with a change in PH.

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Salt does help prevent the brown blood disease that is caused by Nitrite poisoning but in any case, salt does help fish even in ammonia poisoning by trying to reduce the overall stress on it. (I know this is  very much debatable but I think we have had too many debates on this.)

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Cheers,

                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                Sent: 22 April 2005 15:13
                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!

                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                Rachel,  Hope your Black Moore is still hanging in there.  The
                                                                                                                                                frayed, red-streaked fins are a sure sign of nitrite poisoning and/or
                                                                                                                                                septacemia (not the "Dropsey" form of bloat).  You'll need to give
                                                                                                                                                the tank a large (80%) water change and add 2 tsp of Kosher or
                                                                                                                                                aquarium salt per gallon.  If the fish is eating, give it medicated
                                                                                                                                                fish food, such as Jungle's Pepso food, to get antibiotics
                                                                                                                                                internally.  Seems like the nitrites and/or ammonia have been
                                                                                                                                                building up through lack of sufficient water changes or possible
                                                                                                                                                overfeeding.  After treatment, you will have to make larger water
                                                                                                                                                changes when you do this maintainence.  I suspect your water is
                                                                                                                                                alkaline (possibly high pH ?) as that's when nitrite is most
                                                                                                                                                poisonous to fish.  The salt will negate the poisonous effects of the
                                                                                                                                                ammonia/nitrite as it prevents the nitrite from being absorbed by the
                                                                                                                                                bloodstream.  Ray                                                   
                                                                                                                                                \                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > my smaller black moore goldfish is floating on his side and his
                                                                                                                                                tail
                                                                                                                                                > looks kind of frayed but its got red in it. and its not supposed
                                                                                                                                                to.
                                                                                                                                                > my other fish looks fine but hes bigger. is there anything i can do
                                                                                                                                                to
                                                                                                                                                > help?????
                                                                                                                                                > i just quaranteened him.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > hes still alive.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Rachel





                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10565 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                Nim,
                                                                                                                                                You forgot to mention the best cure for the problem...
                                                                                                                                                Would you also agree with Ray to do Large frequent waterchanges?

                                                                                                                                                My opinion is waterchanges cure almost anything.  I usually do a waterchange and gravel vaccumm when ever I see something going wrong. 
                                                                                                                                                Since we are talking a Goldfish a 80% waterchange does not seem unreasonable to me.  I'd do 75-80% waterchange with a good vaccumming of the substrate.  Of course fill with unchlorinated water...

                                                                                                                                                rob
                                                                                                                                                Indiana



                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 4/22/2005 9:29:31 AM US Eastern Standard Time, nimmat4@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                just slight corrections Ray, if you don’t mind
                                                                                                                                                J

                                                                                                                                                Ammonia is more toxic at high PH and nitrite toxicity does not have any major toxicity level change due to PH change. This is because ammonia is an Alkali itself and in low PH it tends to remain as Ammonium ions rather then Ammonia or organic ammonia complexes. Nitrites are basic salts and their levels etc. do not change with a change in PH.
                                                                                                                                                Salt does help prevent the brown blood disease that is caused by Nitrite poisoning but in any case, salt does help fish even in ammonia poisoning by trying to reduce the overall stress on it. (I know this is  very much debatable but I think we have had too many debates on this.)
                                                                                                                                                Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                Nim



                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10566 From: T Date: 4/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: merky water
                                                                                                                                                I have recently ( last 3 weeks) moved from one house to another. I
                                                                                                                                                moved the tank with great success, but now have some merky water.
                                                                                                                                                Filter is clean, rocks have been cleaned with recent water changes.
                                                                                                                                                why the haze in the water?? This tank is near a window which i keep
                                                                                                                                                the blind closed from. advice on getting the water back to the crystal
                                                                                                                                                clear I use to have thx - Terry
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10567 From: paul helms Date: 4/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: merky water
                                                                                                                                                you probably overcleaned the tank and are having a
                                                                                                                                                bacterial bloom. give it time and ease up on cleaning
                                                                                                                                                --- T <bigter4@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > I have recently ( last 3 weeks) moved from one
                                                                                                                                                > house to another. I
                                                                                                                                                > moved the tank with great success, but now have some
                                                                                                                                                > merky water.
                                                                                                                                                > Filter is clean, rocks have been cleaned with
                                                                                                                                                > recent water changes.
                                                                                                                                                > why the haze in the water?? This tank is near a
                                                                                                                                                > window which i keep
                                                                                                                                                > the blind closed from. advice on getting the water
                                                                                                                                                > back to the crystal
                                                                                                                                                > clear I use to have thx - Terry
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                                                __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10568 From: paul helms Date: 4/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                practices that keep the water from getting
                                                                                                                                                overpolluted would seem like the answer to me....not
                                                                                                                                                frequent large changes. if you do not over feed and
                                                                                                                                                do not over clean, tanks require very little effort to
                                                                                                                                                be maintained in a healthy manner.
                                                                                                                                                paul
                                                                                                                                                --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > Nim,
                                                                                                                                                > You forgot to mention the best cure for the
                                                                                                                                                > problem...
                                                                                                                                                > Would you also agree with Ray to do Large frequent
                                                                                                                                                > waterchanges?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > My opinion is waterchanges cure almost anything. I
                                                                                                                                                > usually do a waterchange
                                                                                                                                                > and gravel vaccumm when ever I see something going
                                                                                                                                                > wrong. Since we are
                                                                                                                                                > talking a Goldfish a 80% waterchange does not seem
                                                                                                                                                > unreasonable to me. I'd do
                                                                                                                                                > 75-80% waterchange with a good vaccumming of the
                                                                                                                                                > substrate. Of course fill with
                                                                                                                                                > unchlorinated water...
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > rob
                                                                                                                                                > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > In a message dated 4/22/2005 9:29:31 AM US Eastern
                                                                                                                                                > Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                > nimmat4@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > > just slight corrections Ray, if you don���t mind J
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Ammonia is more toxic at high PH and nitrite
                                                                                                                                                > toxicity does not have any
                                                                                                                                                > > major toxicity level change due to PH change. This
                                                                                                                                                > is because ammonia is an
                                                                                                                                                > > Alkali itself and in low PH it tends to remain as
                                                                                                                                                > Ammonium ions rather then
                                                                                                                                                > > Ammonia or organic ammonia complexes. Nitrites are
                                                                                                                                                > basic salts and their levels
                                                                                                                                                > > etc. do not change with a change in PH.
                                                                                                                                                > > Salt does help prevent the brown blood disease
                                                                                                                                                > that is caused by Nitrite
                                                                                                                                                > > poisoning but in any case, salt does help fish
                                                                                                                                                > even in ammonia poisoning by
                                                                                                                                                > > trying to reduce the overall stress on it. (I know
                                                                                                                                                > this is very much debatable
                                                                                                                                                > > but I think we have had too many debates on this.)
                                                                                                                                                > > Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                                                __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10569 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 4/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: I'm buying mystery snails and some clutches any info
                                                                                                                                                Well, my tanks are bigger than yours and they do not have as many snails as you do. By the way, I am unable to see the PICS-so I don have a clear idea on what your talking about. not telling you what or how to feed but according to my situation I do not have a problem with snail waste.
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10570 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: new member
                                                                                                                                                welcome, i hope you enjoy being a member of this group. can you post photos of your tanks? i would
                                                                                                                                                love to see ones of your saltwater tanks.

                                                                                                                                                -valeen

                                                                                                                                                --- ericpeters3 <ericpeters3@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > hey everyone i'm a new memeber to the group and just extending a hello
                                                                                                                                                > to everyone. i do both fresh and saltwater, i currently have 2
                                                                                                                                                > saltwater aquariums and 4 freswater aquariums. in my one saltwater i
                                                                                                                                                > have a yellow tang, gold banded maroon clown, rusty angel, copperband
                                                                                                                                                > butterfly, and a comet (marine betta). they are all fantastic and i
                                                                                                                                                > take much pride and joy in that tank. i also keep many other saltwater
                                                                                                                                                > fish including, percula clowns, snowflake moray eels, foxface
                                                                                                                                                > rabbitfish, cleaner shrimp, royal grammas, and i've had my fair share
                                                                                                                                                > of gobies and blennies. i have over 100 pounds of nearly 6 year old
                                                                                                                                                > premium fiji live rock that is flourishing with coraline algae,
                                                                                                                                                > mushrooms, polyps, and all sorts of other good stuff. my freshwater
                                                                                                                                                > tanks include tetras, platies, swordtails, many types of plecos,
                                                                                                                                                > barbs, corys, catfish, sharks, and cichlids.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                                I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10571 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!

                                                                                                                                                I agree that a water change may help, but since the goldfish has already been quarantined and large water changes further may stress it too much. I don’t disagree that water change should be done but there should also be a reason associated with it. Not sure if Rachel has tested for the nitrogen components (NH3, No2, No3) and all would really depend on that.

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Fancy goldfish are very much susceptible to this kind of behavior even in near perfect water conditions (I mean zero Nitrites, ammonia and low nitrates with other components of the water fairly stable) just because of their diet. The torn and streaked fancy tail and fins could just be an indication of too much physical stress that fish is suffering trying to stay afloat or balanced. I have seen many goldfish behave this way and if they are really let on their own without further stress and no water movement, they remedy themselves in a couple of days. Then if fed with green food, they fully recover in a couple of weeks.

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Personally, I don’t believe in water changes when they are not needed. If all fish are showing signs of distress, then yes, I could consider a large water change but if others are fine, I see no real reason. Large water changes do have a stressful effect which could make matters worse.

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                                                Sent: 22 April 2005 17:39
                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Nim,
                                                                                                                                                You forgot to mention the best cure for the problem...
                                                                                                                                                Would you also agree with Ray to do Large frequent waterchanges?

                                                                                                                                                My opinion is waterchanges cure almost anything.  I usually do a waterchange and gravel vaccumm when ever I see something going wrong. 
                                                                                                                                                Since we are talking a Goldfish a 80% waterchange does not seem unreasonable to me.  I'd do 75-80% waterchange with a good vaccumming of the substrate.  Of course fill with unchlorinated water...

                                                                                                                                                rob
                                                                                                                                                Indiana



                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 4/22/2005 9:29:31 AM US Eastern Standard Time, nimmat4@... writes:



                                                                                                                                                just slight corrections Ray, if you don’t mind J

                                                                                                                                                Ammonia is more toxic at high PH and nitrite toxicity does not have any major toxicity level change due to PH change. This is because ammonia is an Alkali itself and in low PH it tends to remain as Ammonium ions rather then Ammonia or organic ammonia complexes. Nitrites are basic salts and their levels etc. do not change with a change in PH.
                                                                                                                                                Salt does help prevent the brown blood disease that is caused by Nitrite poisoning but in any case, salt does help fish even in ammonia poisoning by trying to reduce the overall stress on it. (I know this is  very much debatable but I think we have had too many debates on this.)
                                                                                                                                                Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                Nim





                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10572 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                Rachel, et al, Looks like everyone has about the same idea --
                                                                                                                                                Proper Maintenance. Of course, first we have to get this little guy
                                                                                                                                                back to health. I would like to take a moment to clarify and correct
                                                                                                                                                some statements to my previous reply. I am not advocating frequent
                                                                                                                                                large water changes as has been suggested, but merely a one-time
                                                                                                                                                large water change to help get things back in shape and to get rid of
                                                                                                                                                the excess ammonia and or nitrites to initially help this guy.
                                                                                                                                                Continued large and frequent water changes are unnecessary to say the
                                                                                                                                                least (and just a waste). After treatment, better maintenance
                                                                                                                                                procedures should be followed with more frequent and largER water
                                                                                                                                                changes, as it appears the water changing methods at present are not
                                                                                                                                                keeping up with good water conditions needed even though we're all
                                                                                                                                                aware of the fact a good nitrogen cycle should take care of most of
                                                                                                                                                it. We also know that goldfish produce much more waste. For normal
                                                                                                                                                water changing methods in this case, by larger, if 10% is being
                                                                                                                                                changed each time, then I would recommend going 20% each time. If
                                                                                                                                                the water is being partially changed every 10 days for instance
                                                                                                                                                (whatever present water changing regimen is being followed is
                                                                                                                                                obviously insufficient), I would recommend partial water changes
                                                                                                                                                every 5 days, etc., or as necessary to keep the fish in better
                                                                                                                                                health. Feeding may also be needed to be cut down if possible to
                                                                                                                                                eliminate some of the excess waste. Proper filter maintenance is
                                                                                                                                                also necessary and the addition of live plants should help towards
                                                                                                                                                this end, if the goldfish don't eat them. If these procedures, along
                                                                                                                                                with good substrate vacuuming, are not enough to keep the water
                                                                                                                                                healthy, then it may be time to graduate to a larger tank to keep
                                                                                                                                                this fishload of goldfish thriving. Ray
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10573 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                While the goldfish (black moore) has been quarantined, I would assume
                                                                                                                                                (admittedy maybe wrongly so), that set-up water for the quarantine
                                                                                                                                                tank was drawn from the larger tank, as would be the normal thing
                                                                                                                                                thing to do. No one would have (or should have) filled the
                                                                                                                                                quarantine tank with fresh drawn water, although ifb that were the
                                                                                                                                                case I'm sure Rachel, or anyone, would realize that the tank needs
                                                                                                                                                no further "water changing". If by chance, the quarantine tank has
                                                                                                                                                been up and running for any amount of time and is established, a
                                                                                                                                                water change on it in this case would be the best procedure anyway.
                                                                                                                                                The reason behind this is to ensure that the ammonia and or nitrites
                                                                                                                                                are at a minumum, since excess amounts of these toxins are one of the
                                                                                                                                                main causes of this fish's condition if these chemicals are present.
                                                                                                                                                Even though none of the other fish are showing these symtoms yet, why
                                                                                                                                                wait until they may? Always best to know you are starting with good
                                                                                                                                                clean water and go from there if the problem persists. Test results
                                                                                                                                                would be very helpful, but as this would be the first place to start,
                                                                                                                                                and no values were given, I am going with all other factors
                                                                                                                                                considered, having no other choice. The USUAL cause of red-streaked
                                                                                                                                                fins is "brown-blood" caused by nitrite poisoning, so why play games
                                                                                                                                                and wait (after which it may be too late), when treating for this
                                                                                                                                                can't hurt and may very well save the fish if done as a first
                                                                                                                                                resort. If this doesn't help, there's nothing lost, and good water
                                                                                                                                                is never bad for fish. Ray
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > I agree that a water change may help, but since the goldfish has
                                                                                                                                                already
                                                                                                                                                > been quarantined and large water changes further may stress it too
                                                                                                                                                much. I
                                                                                                                                                > don't disagree that water change should be done but there should
                                                                                                                                                also be a
                                                                                                                                                > reason associated with it. Not sure if Rachel has tested for the
                                                                                                                                                nitrogen
                                                                                                                                                > components (NH3, No2, No3) and all would really depend on that.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Fancy goldfish are very much susceptible to this kind of behavior
                                                                                                                                                even in
                                                                                                                                                > near perfect water conditions (I mean zero Nitrites, ammonia and low
                                                                                                                                                > nitrates with other components of the water fairly stable) just
                                                                                                                                                because of
                                                                                                                                                > their diet. The torn and streaked fancy tail and fins could just be
                                                                                                                                                an
                                                                                                                                                > indication of too much physical stress that fish is suffering
                                                                                                                                                trying to stay
                                                                                                                                                > afloat or balanced. I have seen many goldfish behave this way and
                                                                                                                                                if they
                                                                                                                                                > are really let on their own without further stress and no water
                                                                                                                                                movement,
                                                                                                                                                > they remedy themselves in a couple of days. Then if fed with green
                                                                                                                                                food,
                                                                                                                                                > they fully recover in a couple of weeks.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Personally, I don't believe in water changes when they are not
                                                                                                                                                needed. If
                                                                                                                                                > all fish are showing signs of distress, then yes, I could consider
                                                                                                                                                a large
                                                                                                                                                > water change but if others are fine, I see no real reason. Large
                                                                                                                                                water
                                                                                                                                                > changes do have a stressful effect which could make matters worse.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > _____
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > Behalf Of FortWayneFish@a...
                                                                                                                                                > Sent: 22 April 2005 17:39
                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Nim,
                                                                                                                                                > You forgot to mention the best cure for the problem...
                                                                                                                                                > Would you also agree with Ray to do Large frequent waterchanges?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > My opinion is waterchanges cure almost anything. I usually do a
                                                                                                                                                waterchange
                                                                                                                                                > and gravel vaccumm when ever I see something going wrong. Since we
                                                                                                                                                are
                                                                                                                                                > talking a Goldfish a 80% waterchange does not seem unreasonable to
                                                                                                                                                me. I'd
                                                                                                                                                > do 75-80% waterchange with a good vaccumming of the substrate. Of
                                                                                                                                                course
                                                                                                                                                > fill with unchlorinated water...
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > rob
                                                                                                                                                > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > In a message dated 4/22/2005 9:29:31 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                > nimmat4@y... writes:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > just slight corrections Ray, if you don't mind :-)
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Ammonia is more toxic at high PH and nitrite toxicity does not have
                                                                                                                                                any
                                                                                                                                                > major toxicity level change due to PH change. This is because
                                                                                                                                                ammonia is an
                                                                                                                                                > Alkali itself and in low PH it tends to remain as Ammonium ions
                                                                                                                                                rather then
                                                                                                                                                > Ammonia or organic ammonia complexes. Nitrites are basic salts and
                                                                                                                                                their
                                                                                                                                                > levels etc. do not change with a change in PH.
                                                                                                                                                > Salt does help prevent the brown blood disease that is caused by
                                                                                                                                                Nitrite
                                                                                                                                                > poisoning but in any case, salt does help fish even in ammonia
                                                                                                                                                poisoning by
                                                                                                                                                > trying to reduce the overall stress on it. (I know this is very
                                                                                                                                                much
                                                                                                                                                > debatable but I think we have had too many debates on this.)
                                                                                                                                                > Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                important to
                                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > _____
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10574 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!

                                                                                                                                                Well. As I said, I am not against water changes and yes, a large water change could benefit the fish and I don’t see any harm in a single water change either. I was just referring to the point that Water change is the most important step for a cure/problem.

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Most important however we need to know:

                                                                                                                                                Has the water been tested for Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates?

                                                                                                                                                Are any other fish exhibiting any odd behaviour?

                                                                                                                                                What was the goldfish fed in general?

                                                                                                                                                How was the quarantine tank setup? Cycled or not?

                                                                                                                                                How big is the quarantine tank?

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Rachel, I think everyone will need answers to these questions before something more accurate solution can be given.

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Ray, Paul, Rob am I correct?

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                Sent: 22 April 2005 19:30
                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!

                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                While the goldfish (black moore ) has been quarantined, I would assume
                                                                                                                                                (admittedy maybe wrongly so), that set-up water for the quarantine
                                                                                                                                                tank was drawn from the larger tank, as would be the normal thing
                                                                                                                                                thing to do.  No one would have (or should have) filled the
                                                                                                                                                quarantine tank with fresh drawn water, although ifb that were the
                                                                                                                                                case I'm sure Rachel, or anyone,  would realize that the tank needs
                                                                                                                                                no further "water changing".  If by chance, the quarantine tank has
                                                                                                                                                been up and running for any amount of time and is established, a
                                                                                                                                                water change on it in this case would be the best procedure anyway. 
                                                                                                                                                The reason behind this is to ensure that the ammonia and or nitrites
                                                                                                                                                are at a minumum, since excess amounts of these toxins are one of the
                                                                                                                                                main causes of this fish's condition if these chemicals are present. 
                                                                                                                                                Even though none of the other fish are showing these symtoms yet, why
                                                                                                                                                wait until they may?  Always best to know you are starting with good
                                                                                                                                                clean water and go from there if the problem persists.  Test results
                                                                                                                                                would be very helpful, but as this would be the first place to start,
                                                                                                                                                and no values were given, I am going with all other factors
                                                                                                                                                considered, having no other choice.  The USUAL cause of red-streaked
                                                                                                                                                fins is "brown-blood" caused by nitrite poisoning, so why play games
                                                                                                                                                and wait (after which it may be too late), when treating for this
                                                                                                                                                can't hurt and may very well save the fish if done as a first
                                                                                                                                                resort.  If this doesn't help, there's nothing lost, and good water
                                                                                                                                                is never bad for fish.  Ray                                         
                                                                                                                                                \                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , " Nimish Mathur " <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > I agree that a water change may help, but since the goldfish has
                                                                                                                                                already
                                                                                                                                                > been quarantined and large water changes further may stress it too
                                                                                                                                                much. I
                                                                                                                                                > don't disagree that water change should be done but there should
                                                                                                                                                also be a
                                                                                                                                                > reason associated with it. Not sure if Rachel has tested for the
                                                                                                                                                nitrogen
                                                                                                                                                > components (NH3, No2, No3) and all would really depend on that.
                                                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Fancy goldfish are very much susceptible to this kind of behavior
                                                                                                                                                even in
                                                                                                                                                > near perfect water conditions (I mean zero Nitrites, ammonia and low
                                                                                                                                                > nitrates with other components of the water fairly stable) just
                                                                                                                                                because of
                                                                                                                                                > their diet. The torn and streaked fancy tail and fins could just be
                                                                                                                                                an
                                                                                                                                                > indication of too much physical stress that fish is suffering
                                                                                                                                                trying to stay
                                                                                                                                                > afloat or balanced. I have seen many goldfish behave this way and
                                                                                                                                                if they
                                                                                                                                                > are really let on their own without further stress and no water
                                                                                                                                                movement,
                                                                                                                                                > they remedy themselves in a couple of days. Then if fed with green
                                                                                                                                                food,
                                                                                                                                                > they fully recover in a couple of weeks.
                                                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Personally, I don't believe in water changes when they are not
                                                                                                                                                needed. If
                                                                                                                                                > all fish are showing signs of distress, then yes, I could consider
                                                                                                                                                a large
                                                                                                                                                > water change but if others are fine, I see no real reason. Large
                                                                                                                                                water
                                                                                                                                                > changes do have a stressful effect which could make matters worse.
                                                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >   _____ 
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On
                                                                                                                                                > Behalf Of FortWayneFish@a...
                                                                                                                                                > Sent: 22 April 2005 17:39
                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Nim,
                                                                                                                                                > You forgot to mention the best cure for the problem...
                                                                                                                                                > Would you also agree with Ray to do Large frequent waterchanges?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > My opinion is waterchanges cure almost anything.  I usually do a
                                                                                                                                                waterchange
                                                                                                                                                > and gravel vaccumm when ever I see something going wrong.  Since we
                                                                                                                                                are
                                                                                                                                                > talking a Goldfish a 80% waterchange does not seem unreasonable to
                                                                                                                                                me.  I'd
                                                                                                                                                > do 75-80% waterchange with a good vaccumming of the substrate.  Of
                                                                                                                                                course
                                                                                                                                                > fill with unchlorinated water...
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > rob
                                                                                                                                                > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > In a message dated 4/22/2005 9:29:31 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                > nimmat4@y... writes:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > just slight corrections Ray, if you don't mind :-)
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Ammonia is more toxic at high PH and nitrite toxicity does not have
                                                                                                                                                any
                                                                                                                                                > major toxicity level change due to PH change. This is because
                                                                                                                                                ammonia is an
                                                                                                                                                > Alkali itself and in low PH it tends to remain as Ammonium ions
                                                                                                                                                rather then
                                                                                                                                                > Ammonia or organic ammonia complexes. Nitrites are basic salts and
                                                                                                                                                their
                                                                                                                                                > levels etc. do not change with a change in PH.
                                                                                                                                                > Salt does help prevent the brown blood disease that is caused by
                                                                                                                                                Nitrite
                                                                                                                                                > poisoning but in any case, salt does help fish even in ammonia
                                                                                                                                                poisoning by
                                                                                                                                                > trying to reduce the overall stress on it. (I know this is  very
                                                                                                                                                much
                                                                                                                                                > debatable but I think we have had too many debates on this.)
                                                                                                                                                > Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                important to
                                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we
                                                                                                                                                Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >   _____ 
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > *      To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10575 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                Nim, Knowing the answers to these questions would certainly go a
                                                                                                                                                long ways in getting to the bottom of things still up in the air, and
                                                                                                                                                possibly understanding and/or confirming diagnoses already suggested
                                                                                                                                                with information furnished. Also, knowing such things as the present
                                                                                                                                                feeding routine, gravel vacuuming routine and water changing routine
                                                                                                                                                would help. Ray
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > Well. As I said, I am not against water changes and yes, a large
                                                                                                                                                water
                                                                                                                                                > change could benefit the fish and I don't see any harm in a single
                                                                                                                                                water
                                                                                                                                                > change either. I was just referring to the point that Water change
                                                                                                                                                is the
                                                                                                                                                > most important step for a cure/problem.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Most important however we need to know:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Has the water been tested for Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Are any other fish exhibiting any odd behaviour?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > What was the goldfish fed in general?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > How was the quarantine tank setup? Cycled or not?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > How big is the quarantine tank?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Rachel, I think everyone will need answers to these questions before
                                                                                                                                                > something more accurate solution can be given.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Ray, Paul, Rob am I correct?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > _____
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                > Sent: 22 April 2005 19:30
                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > While the goldfish (black moore) has been quarantined, I would
                                                                                                                                                assume
                                                                                                                                                > (admittedy maybe wrongly so), that set-up water for the quarantine
                                                                                                                                                > tank was drawn from the larger tank, as would be the normal thing
                                                                                                                                                > thing to do. No one would have (or should have) filled the
                                                                                                                                                > quarantine tank with fresh drawn water, although ifb that were the
                                                                                                                                                > case I'm sure Rachel, or anyone, would realize that the tank needs
                                                                                                                                                > no further "water changing". If by chance, the quarantine tank has
                                                                                                                                                > been up and running for any amount of time and is established, a
                                                                                                                                                > water change on it in this case would be the best procedure
                                                                                                                                                anyway.
                                                                                                                                                > The reason behind this is to ensure that the ammonia and or
                                                                                                                                                nitrites
                                                                                                                                                > are at a minumum, since excess amounts of these toxins are one of
                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                > main causes of this fish's condition if these chemicals are
                                                                                                                                                present.
                                                                                                                                                > Even though none of the other fish are showing these symtoms yet,
                                                                                                                                                why
                                                                                                                                                > wait until they may? Always best to know you are starting with
                                                                                                                                                good
                                                                                                                                                > clean water and go from there if the problem persists. Test
                                                                                                                                                results
                                                                                                                                                > would be very helpful, but as this would be the first place to
                                                                                                                                                start,
                                                                                                                                                > and no values were given, I am going with all other factors
                                                                                                                                                > considered, having no other choice. The USUAL cause of red-
                                                                                                                                                streaked
                                                                                                                                                > fins is "brown-blood" caused by nitrite poisoning, so why play
                                                                                                                                                games
                                                                                                                                                > and wait (after which it may be too late), when treating for this
                                                                                                                                                > can't hurt and may very well save the fish if done as a first
                                                                                                                                                > resort. If this doesn't help, there's nothing lost, and good water
                                                                                                                                                > is never bad for fish.
                                                                                                                                                Ray
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > I agree that a water change may help, but since the goldfish has
                                                                                                                                                > already
                                                                                                                                                > > been quarantined and large water changes further may stress it
                                                                                                                                                too
                                                                                                                                                > much. I
                                                                                                                                                > > don't disagree that water change should be done but there should
                                                                                                                                                > also be a
                                                                                                                                                > > reason associated with it. Not sure if Rachel has tested for the
                                                                                                                                                > nitrogen
                                                                                                                                                > > components (NH3, No2, No3) and all would really depend on that.
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Fancy goldfish are very much susceptible to this kind of behavior
                                                                                                                                                > even in
                                                                                                                                                > > near perfect water conditions (I mean zero Nitrites, ammonia and
                                                                                                                                                low
                                                                                                                                                > > nitrates with other components of the water fairly stable) just
                                                                                                                                                > because of
                                                                                                                                                > > their diet. The torn and streaked fancy tail and fins could just
                                                                                                                                                be
                                                                                                                                                > an
                                                                                                                                                > > indication of too much physical stress that fish is suffering
                                                                                                                                                > trying to stay
                                                                                                                                                > > afloat or balanced. I have seen many goldfish behave this way and
                                                                                                                                                > if they
                                                                                                                                                > > are really let on their own without further stress and no water
                                                                                                                                                > movement,
                                                                                                                                                > > they remedy themselves in a couple of days. Then if fed with
                                                                                                                                                green
                                                                                                                                                > food,
                                                                                                                                                > > they fully recover in a couple of weeks.
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Personally, I don't believe in water changes when they are not
                                                                                                                                                > needed. If
                                                                                                                                                > > all fish are showing signs of distress, then yes, I could
                                                                                                                                                consider
                                                                                                                                                > a large
                                                                                                                                                > > water change but if others are fine, I see no real reason. Large
                                                                                                                                                > water
                                                                                                                                                > > changes do have a stressful effect which could make matters worse.
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > > Behalf Of FortWayneFish@a...
                                                                                                                                                > > Sent: 22 April 2005 17:39
                                                                                                                                                > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore
                                                                                                                                                goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Nim,
                                                                                                                                                > > You forgot to mention the best cure for the problem...
                                                                                                                                                > > Would you also agree with Ray to do Large frequent waterchanges?
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > My opinion is waterchanges cure almost anything. I usually do a
                                                                                                                                                > waterchange
                                                                                                                                                > > and gravel vaccumm when ever I see something going wrong. Since
                                                                                                                                                we
                                                                                                                                                > are
                                                                                                                                                > > talking a Goldfish a 80% waterchange does not seem unreasonable
                                                                                                                                                to
                                                                                                                                                > me. I'd
                                                                                                                                                > > do 75-80% waterchange with a good vaccumming of the substrate.
                                                                                                                                                Of
                                                                                                                                                > course
                                                                                                                                                > > fill with unchlorinated water...
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > rob
                                                                                                                                                > > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > In a message dated 4/22/2005 9:29:31 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                > > nimmat4@y... writes:
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > just slight corrections Ray, if you don't mind :-)
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Ammonia is more toxic at high PH and nitrite toxicity does not
                                                                                                                                                have
                                                                                                                                                > any
                                                                                                                                                > > major toxicity level change due to PH change. This is because
                                                                                                                                                > ammonia is an
                                                                                                                                                > > Alkali itself and in low PH it tends to remain as Ammonium ions
                                                                                                                                                > rather then
                                                                                                                                                > > Ammonia or organic ammonia complexes. Nitrites are basic salts
                                                                                                                                                and
                                                                                                                                                > their
                                                                                                                                                > > levels etc. do not change with a change in PH.
                                                                                                                                                > > Salt does help prevent the brown blood disease that is caused by
                                                                                                                                                > Nitrite
                                                                                                                                                > > poisoning but in any case, salt does help fish even in ammonia
                                                                                                                                                > poisoning by
                                                                                                                                                > > trying to reduce the overall stress on it. (I know this is very
                                                                                                                                                > much
                                                                                                                                                > > debatable but I think we have had too many debates on this.)
                                                                                                                                                > > Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                > thanks
                                                                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                > important to
                                                                                                                                                > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                modify
                                                                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                                                                > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                > Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                                                                                                                                > subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                important to
                                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > _____
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                                                                                                                                subject=Unsubscribe>
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                                                                                                                                                > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10576 From: paul helms Date: 4/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                absolutely correct sir
                                                                                                                                                --- Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                > Well. As I said, I am not against water changes and
                                                                                                                                                > yes, a large water
                                                                                                                                                > change could benefit the fish and I don't see any
                                                                                                                                                > harm in a single water
                                                                                                                                                > change either. I was just referring to the point
                                                                                                                                                > that Water change is the
                                                                                                                                                > most important step for a cure/problem.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Most important however we need to know:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Has the water been tested for Ammonia, Nitrites and
                                                                                                                                                > Nitrates?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Are any other fish exhibiting any odd behaviour?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > What was the goldfish fed in general?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > How was the quarantine tank setup? Cycled or not?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > How big is the quarantine tank?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Rachel, I think everyone will need answers to these
                                                                                                                                                > questions before
                                                                                                                                                > something more accurate solution can be given.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Ray, Paul, Rob am I correct?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > _____
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                > Sent: 22 April 2005 19:30
                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore
                                                                                                                                                > goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > While the goldfish (black moore) has been
                                                                                                                                                > quarantined, I would assume
                                                                                                                                                > (admittedy maybe wrongly so), that set-up water for
                                                                                                                                                > the quarantine
                                                                                                                                                > tank was drawn from the larger tank, as would be the
                                                                                                                                                > normal thing
                                                                                                                                                > thing to do. No one would have (or should have)
                                                                                                                                                > filled the
                                                                                                                                                > quarantine tank with fresh drawn water, although ifb
                                                                                                                                                > that were the
                                                                                                                                                > case I'm sure Rachel, or anyone, would realize that
                                                                                                                                                > the tank needs
                                                                                                                                                > no further "water changing". If by chance, the
                                                                                                                                                > quarantine tank has
                                                                                                                                                > been up and running for any amount of time and is
                                                                                                                                                > established, a
                                                                                                                                                > water change on it in this case would be the best
                                                                                                                                                > procedure anyway.
                                                                                                                                                > The reason behind this is to ensure that the ammonia
                                                                                                                                                > and or nitrites
                                                                                                                                                > are at a minumum, since excess amounts of these
                                                                                                                                                > toxins are one of the
                                                                                                                                                > main causes of this fish's condition if these
                                                                                                                                                > chemicals are present.
                                                                                                                                                > Even though none of the other fish are showing these
                                                                                                                                                > symtoms yet, why
                                                                                                                                                > wait until they may? Always best to know you are
                                                                                                                                                > starting with good
                                                                                                                                                > clean water and go from there if the problem
                                                                                                                                                > persists. Test results
                                                                                                                                                > would be very helpful, but as this would be the
                                                                                                                                                > first place to start,
                                                                                                                                                > and no values were given, I am going with all other
                                                                                                                                                > factors
                                                                                                                                                > considered, having no other choice. The USUAL cause
                                                                                                                                                > of red-streaked
                                                                                                                                                > fins is "brown-blood" caused by nitrite poisoning,
                                                                                                                                                > so why play games
                                                                                                                                                > and wait (after which it may be too late), when
                                                                                                                                                > treating for this
                                                                                                                                                > can't hurt and may very well save the fish if done
                                                                                                                                                > as a first
                                                                                                                                                > resort. If this doesn't help, there's nothing lost,
                                                                                                                                                > and good water
                                                                                                                                                > is never bad for fish. Ray
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > \
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                                                                > <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > I agree that a water change may help, but since
                                                                                                                                                > the goldfish has
                                                                                                                                                > already
                                                                                                                                                > > been quarantined and large water changes further
                                                                                                                                                > may stress it too
                                                                                                                                                > much. I
                                                                                                                                                > > don't disagree that water change should be done
                                                                                                                                                > but there should
                                                                                                                                                > also be a
                                                                                                                                                > > reason associated with it. Not sure if Rachel has
                                                                                                                                                > tested for the
                                                                                                                                                > nitrogen
                                                                                                                                                > > components (NH3, No2, No3) and all would really
                                                                                                                                                > depend on that.
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Fancy goldfish are very much susceptible to this
                                                                                                                                                > kind of behavior
                                                                                                                                                > even in
                                                                                                                                                > > near perfect water conditions (I mean zero
                                                                                                                                                > Nitrites, ammonia and low
                                                                                                                                                > > nitrates with other components of the water fairly
                                                                                                                                                > stable) just
                                                                                                                                                > because of
                                                                                                                                                > > their diet. The torn and streaked fancy tail and
                                                                                                                                                > fins could just be
                                                                                                                                                > an
                                                                                                                                                > > indication of too much physical stress that fish
                                                                                                                                                > is suffering
                                                                                                                                                > trying to stay
                                                                                                                                                > > afloat or balanced. I have seen many goldfish
                                                                                                                                                > behave this way and
                                                                                                                                                > if they
                                                                                                                                                > > are really let on their own without further stress
                                                                                                                                                > and no water
                                                                                                                                                > movement,
                                                                                                                                                > > they remedy themselves in a couple of days. Then
                                                                                                                                                > if fed with green
                                                                                                                                                > food,
                                                                                                                                                > > they fully recover in a couple of weeks.
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Personally, I don't believe in water changes when
                                                                                                                                                > they are not
                                                                                                                                                > needed. If
                                                                                                                                                > > all fish are showing signs of distress, then yes,
                                                                                                                                                > I could consider
                                                                                                                                                > a large
                                                                                                                                                > > water change but if others are fine, I see no real
                                                                                                                                                > reason. Large
                                                                                                                                                > water
                                                                                                                                                > > changes do have a stressful effect which could
                                                                                                                                                > make matters worse.
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > > Behalf Of FortWayneFish@a...
                                                                                                                                                > > Sent: 22 April 2005 17:39
                                                                                                                                                > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black
                                                                                                                                                > moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Nim,
                                                                                                                                                > > You forgot to mention the best cure for the
                                                                                                                                                > problem...
                                                                                                                                                > > Would you also agree with Ray to do Large frequent
                                                                                                                                                > waterchanges?
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > My opinion is waterchanges cure almost anything.
                                                                                                                                                > I usually do a
                                                                                                                                                > waterchange
                                                                                                                                                > > and gravel vaccumm when ever I see something going
                                                                                                                                                > wrong. Since we
                                                                                                                                                > are
                                                                                                                                                > > talking a Goldfish a 80% waterchange does not seem
                                                                                                                                                > unreasonable to
                                                                                                                                                > me. I'd
                                                                                                                                                > > do 75-80% waterchange with a good vaccumming of
                                                                                                                                                > the substrate. Of
                                                                                                                                                > course
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                === message truncated ===


                                                                                                                                                __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10577 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                yes those answers would help a lot :-)

                                                                                                                                                rob
                                                                                                                                                Indiana

                                                                                                                                                Most important however we need to know:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Has the water been tested for Ammonia, Nitrites and
                                                                                                                                                > Nitrates?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Are any other fish exhibiting any odd behaviour?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > What was the goldfish fed in general?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > How was the quarantine tank setup? Cycled or not?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > How big is the quarantine tank?
                                                                                                                                                >



                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10578 From: Rachel Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                well hes doing worse but hes still fighting. i can try that but i
                                                                                                                                                dont know if he will eat at all i can try though. hes not moving
                                                                                                                                                well. new thing is his fins have white stuff on them.
                                                                                                                                                help?!!

                                                                                                                                                Rae

                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > Try and see if he eats crushed deskinned green peas. This is a
                                                                                                                                                very common
                                                                                                                                                > problem in goldfish and they need to be fed vegetable food very
                                                                                                                                                often to
                                                                                                                                                > prevent bloat. I am sure he will live through this. Don't create
                                                                                                                                                any major
                                                                                                                                                > water movements as this will stress him further.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > _____
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > Behalf Of Rachel
                                                                                                                                                > Sent: 22 April 2005 01:57
                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > Subject: [AquaticLife] need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > my smaller black moore goldfish is floating on his side and his
                                                                                                                                                tail
                                                                                                                                                > looks kind of frayed but its got red in it. and its not supposed
                                                                                                                                                to.
                                                                                                                                                > my other fish looks fine but hes bigger. is there anything i can
                                                                                                                                                do to
                                                                                                                                                > help?????
                                                                                                                                                > i just quaranteened him.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > hes still alive.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Rachel
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                important to
                                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > _____
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                                                                                                                                subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10579 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!

                                                                                                                                                Rachel,

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                All these are signs of physical stress I think. Can you read the entire thread and get some answers to some of the questions asked?

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Rachel
                                                                                                                                                Sent: 23 April 2005 20:01
                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!

                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                well hes doing worse but hes still fighting. i can try that but i
                                                                                                                                                dont know if he will eat at all i can try though. hes not moving
                                                                                                                                                well. new thing is his fins have white stuff on them.
                                                                                                                                                help?!!

                                                                                                                                                Rae

                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , " Nimish Mathur " <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > Try and see if he eats crushed deskinned green peas. This is a
                                                                                                                                                very common
                                                                                                                                                > problem in goldfish and they need to be fed vegetable food very
                                                                                                                                                often to
                                                                                                                                                > prevent bloat. I am sure he will live through this. Don't create
                                                                                                                                                any major
                                                                                                                                                > water movements as this will stress him further.
                                                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >   _____ 
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On
                                                                                                                                                > Behalf Of Rachel
                                                                                                                                                > Sent: 22 April 2005 01:57
                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > Subject: [AquaticLife] need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > my smaller black moore goldfish is floating on his side and his
                                                                                                                                                tail
                                                                                                                                                > looks kind of frayed but its got red in it. and its not supposed
                                                                                                                                                to.
                                                                                                                                                > my other fish looks fine but hes bigger. is there anything i can
                                                                                                                                                do to
                                                                                                                                                > help?????
                                                                                                                                                > i just quaranteened him.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > hes still alive.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Rachel
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                important to
                                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we
                                                                                                                                                Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >   _____ 
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > *      To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                                > *      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                                                                                                                                subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                                > *      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.





                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10580 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                Sounds possibly like Fungus; have you added the salt as was
                                                                                                                                                recommended? Ray
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > well hes doing worse but hes still fighting. i can try that but i
                                                                                                                                                > dont know if he will eat at all i can try though. hes not moving
                                                                                                                                                > well. new thing is his fins have white stuff on them.
                                                                                                                                                > help?!!
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Rae
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > Try and see if he eats crushed deskinned green peas. This is a
                                                                                                                                                > very common
                                                                                                                                                > > problem in goldfish and they need to be fed vegetable food very
                                                                                                                                                > often to
                                                                                                                                                > > prevent bloat. I am sure he will live through this. Don't create
                                                                                                                                                > any major
                                                                                                                                                > > water movements as this will stress him further.
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > > Behalf Of Rachel
                                                                                                                                                > > Sent: 22 April 2005 01:57
                                                                                                                                                > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > Subject: [AquaticLife] need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > my smaller black moore goldfish is floating on his side and his
                                                                                                                                                > tail
                                                                                                                                                > > looks kind of frayed but its got red in it. and its not supposed
                                                                                                                                                > to.
                                                                                                                                                > > my other fish looks fine but hes bigger. is there anything i can
                                                                                                                                                > do to
                                                                                                                                                > > help?????
                                                                                                                                                > > i just quaranteened him.
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > hes still alive.
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Rachel
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                > thanks
                                                                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                > important to
                                                                                                                                                > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                modify
                                                                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                                                                > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                > Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                                                                                                                                > subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10581 From: Rachel Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                i suppose i have been neglecting cleaning my goldfish setup. never
                                                                                                                                                had any before but i am incr4dibly busy. damnit i feel bad. the
                                                                                                                                                other goldfish is doing fine though. i feed them once a day. and
                                                                                                                                                theres an undergravel filter. water changes are like maybe every 2
                                                                                                                                                to 4 weeks. its a 2 gallon setup. i have rocks that absorb ammonia n
                                                                                                                                                i use prime, so its never been a real problem. at all.

                                                                                                                                                i pulled water from the setup to quaranteen him in. hes trying to
                                                                                                                                                swim a bit. i ended up totally cleaning out my setup, and my other
                                                                                                                                                goldfish looks perky.

                                                                                                                                                my sicky goldfish's got white stuff on his fins. wht does it mean?!

                                                                                                                                                oh and my friends betta ate the tail off my lil sucker fish. *sigh*

                                                                                                                                                Rae

                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                                                <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Nim, Knowing the answers to these questions would certainly go a
                                                                                                                                                > long ways in getting to the bottom of things still up in the air,
                                                                                                                                                and
                                                                                                                                                > possibly understanding and/or confirming diagnoses already
                                                                                                                                                suggested
                                                                                                                                                > with information furnished. Also, knowing such things as the
                                                                                                                                                present
                                                                                                                                                > feeding routine, gravel vacuuming routine and water changing
                                                                                                                                                routine
                                                                                                                                                > would help.
                                                                                                                                                Ray
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                \

                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > Well. As I said, I am not against water changes and yes, a large
                                                                                                                                                > water
                                                                                                                                                > > change could benefit the fish and I don't see any harm in a
                                                                                                                                                single
                                                                                                                                                > water
                                                                                                                                                > > change either. I was just referring to the point that Water
                                                                                                                                                change
                                                                                                                                                > is the
                                                                                                                                                > > most important step for a cure/problem.
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Most important however we need to know:
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Has the water been tested for Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates?
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Are any other fish exhibiting any odd behaviour?
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > What was the goldfish fed in general?
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > How was the quarantine tank setup? Cycled or not?
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > How big is the quarantine tank?
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Rachel, I think everyone will need answers to these questions
                                                                                                                                                before
                                                                                                                                                > > something more accurate solution can be given.
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Ray, Paul, Rob am I correct?
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                > > Sent: 22 April 2005 19:30
                                                                                                                                                > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > While the goldfish (black moore) has been quarantined, I would
                                                                                                                                                > assume
                                                                                                                                                > > (admittedy maybe wrongly so), that set-up water for the
                                                                                                                                                quarantine
                                                                                                                                                > > tank was drawn from the larger tank, as would be the normal
                                                                                                                                                thing
                                                                                                                                                > > thing to do. No one would have (or should have) filled the
                                                                                                                                                > > quarantine tank with fresh drawn water, although ifb that were
                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                > > case I'm sure Rachel, or anyone, would realize that the tank
                                                                                                                                                needs
                                                                                                                                                > > no further "water changing". If by chance, the quarantine tank
                                                                                                                                                has
                                                                                                                                                > > been up and running for any amount of time and is established, a
                                                                                                                                                > > water change on it in this case would be the best procedure
                                                                                                                                                > anyway.
                                                                                                                                                > > The reason behind this is to ensure that the ammonia and or
                                                                                                                                                > nitrites
                                                                                                                                                > > are at a minumum, since excess amounts of these toxins are one
                                                                                                                                                of
                                                                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                                                                > > main causes of this fish's condition if these chemicals are
                                                                                                                                                > present.
                                                                                                                                                > > Even though none of the other fish are showing these symtoms
                                                                                                                                                yet,
                                                                                                                                                > why
                                                                                                                                                > > wait until they may? Always best to know you are starting with
                                                                                                                                                > good
                                                                                                                                                > > clean water and go from there if the problem persists. Test
                                                                                                                                                > results
                                                                                                                                                > > would be very helpful, but as this would be the first place to
                                                                                                                                                > start,
                                                                                                                                                > > and no values were given, I am going with all other factors
                                                                                                                                                > > considered, having no other choice. The USUAL cause of red-
                                                                                                                                                > streaked
                                                                                                                                                > > fins is "brown-blood" caused by nitrite poisoning, so why play
                                                                                                                                                > games
                                                                                                                                                > > and wait (after which it may be too late), when treating for
                                                                                                                                                this
                                                                                                                                                > > can't hurt and may very well save the fish if done as a first
                                                                                                                                                > > resort. If this doesn't help, there's nothing lost, and good
                                                                                                                                                water
                                                                                                                                                > > is never bad for fish.
                                                                                                                                                > Ray
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                \

                                                                                                                                                > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                                                                <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > > I agree that a water change may help, but since the goldfish
                                                                                                                                                has
                                                                                                                                                > > already
                                                                                                                                                > > > been quarantined and large water changes further may stress it
                                                                                                                                                > too
                                                                                                                                                > > much. I
                                                                                                                                                > > > don't disagree that water change should be done but there
                                                                                                                                                should
                                                                                                                                                > > also be a
                                                                                                                                                > > > reason associated with it. Not sure if Rachel has tested for
                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                > > nitrogen
                                                                                                                                                > > > components (NH3, No2, No3) and all would really depend on
                                                                                                                                                that.
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Fancy goldfish are very much susceptible to this kind of
                                                                                                                                                behavior
                                                                                                                                                > > even in
                                                                                                                                                > > > near perfect water conditions (I mean zero Nitrites, ammonia
                                                                                                                                                and
                                                                                                                                                > low
                                                                                                                                                > > > nitrates with other components of the water fairly stable)
                                                                                                                                                just
                                                                                                                                                > > because of
                                                                                                                                                > > > their diet. The torn and streaked fancy tail and fins could
                                                                                                                                                just
                                                                                                                                                > be
                                                                                                                                                > > an
                                                                                                                                                > > > indication of too much physical stress that fish is suffering
                                                                                                                                                > > trying to stay
                                                                                                                                                > > > afloat or balanced. I have seen many goldfish behave this way
                                                                                                                                                and
                                                                                                                                                > > if they
                                                                                                                                                > > > are really let on their own without further stress and no
                                                                                                                                                water
                                                                                                                                                > > movement,
                                                                                                                                                > > > they remedy themselves in a couple of days. Then if fed with
                                                                                                                                                > green
                                                                                                                                                > > food,
                                                                                                                                                > > > they fully recover in a couple of weeks.
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Personally, I don't believe in water changes when they are not
                                                                                                                                                > > needed. If
                                                                                                                                                > > > all fish are showing signs of distress, then yes, I could
                                                                                                                                                > consider
                                                                                                                                                > > a large
                                                                                                                                                > > > water change but if others are fine, I see no real reason.
                                                                                                                                                Large
                                                                                                                                                > > water
                                                                                                                                                > > > changes do have a stressful effect which could make matters
                                                                                                                                                worse.
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > > > Behalf Of FortWayneFish@a...
                                                                                                                                                > > > Sent: 22 April 2005 17:39
                                                                                                                                                > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore
                                                                                                                                                > goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Nim,
                                                                                                                                                > > > You forgot to mention the best cure for the problem...
                                                                                                                                                > > > Would you also agree with Ray to do Large frequent
                                                                                                                                                waterchanges?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > My opinion is waterchanges cure almost anything. I usually do
                                                                                                                                                a
                                                                                                                                                > > waterchange
                                                                                                                                                > > > and gravel vaccumm when ever I see something going wrong.
                                                                                                                                                Since
                                                                                                                                                > we
                                                                                                                                                > > are
                                                                                                                                                > > > talking a Goldfish a 80% waterchange does not seem
                                                                                                                                                unreasonable
                                                                                                                                                > to
                                                                                                                                                > > me. I'd
                                                                                                                                                > > > do 75-80% waterchange with a good vaccumming of the
                                                                                                                                                substrate.
                                                                                                                                                > Of
                                                                                                                                                > > course
                                                                                                                                                > > > fill with unchlorinated water...
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > rob
                                                                                                                                                > > > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > In a message dated 4/22/2005 9:29:31 AM US Eastern Standard
                                                                                                                                                Time,
                                                                                                                                                > > > nimmat4@y... writes:
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > just slight corrections Ray, if you don't mind :-)
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Ammonia is more toxic at high PH and nitrite toxicity does not
                                                                                                                                                > have
                                                                                                                                                > > any
                                                                                                                                                > > > major toxicity level change due to PH change. This is because
                                                                                                                                                > > ammonia is an
                                                                                                                                                > > > Alkali itself and in low PH it tends to remain as Ammonium
                                                                                                                                                ions
                                                                                                                                                > > rather then
                                                                                                                                                > > > Ammonia or organic ammonia complexes. Nitrites are basic salts
                                                                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                                                                > > their
                                                                                                                                                > > > levels etc. do not change with a change in PH.
                                                                                                                                                > > > Salt does help prevent the brown blood disease that is caused
                                                                                                                                                by
                                                                                                                                                > > Nitrite
                                                                                                                                                > > > poisoning but in any case, salt does help fish even in ammonia
                                                                                                                                                > > poisoning by
                                                                                                                                                > > > trying to reduce the overall stress on it. (I know this is
                                                                                                                                                very
                                                                                                                                                > > much
                                                                                                                                                > > > debatable but I think we have had too many debates on this.)
                                                                                                                                                > > > Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                > > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                > > > .
                                                                                                                                                > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                > > important to
                                                                                                                                                > > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                > modify
                                                                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                we
                                                                                                                                                > > Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
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                                                                                                                                                > > >
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                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                > thanks
                                                                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                > important to
                                                                                                                                                > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                modify
                                                                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                                                                > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                > Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10582 From: Rachel Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                what kind fo salt anyway.

                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                                                <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Sounds possibly like Fungus; have you added the salt as was
                                                                                                                                                > recommended?
                                                                                                                                                Ray
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                \

                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > well hes doing worse but hes still fighting. i can try that but
                                                                                                                                                i
                                                                                                                                                > > dont know if he will eat at all i can try though. hes not moving
                                                                                                                                                > > well. new thing is his fins have white stuff on them.
                                                                                                                                                > > help?!!
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Rae
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                                                                <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > > Try and see if he eats crushed deskinned green peas. This is a
                                                                                                                                                > > very common
                                                                                                                                                > > > problem in goldfish and they need to be fed vegetable food
                                                                                                                                                very
                                                                                                                                                > > often to
                                                                                                                                                > > > prevent bloat. I am sure he will live through this. Don't
                                                                                                                                                create
                                                                                                                                                > > any major
                                                                                                                                                > > > water movements as this will stress him further.
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > > > Behalf Of Rachel
                                                                                                                                                > > > Sent: 22 April 2005 01:57
                                                                                                                                                > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > my smaller black moore goldfish is floating on his side and
                                                                                                                                                his
                                                                                                                                                > > tail
                                                                                                                                                > > > looks kind of frayed but its got red in it. and its not
                                                                                                                                                supposed
                                                                                                                                                > > to.
                                                                                                                                                > > > my other fish looks fine but hes bigger. is there anything i
                                                                                                                                                can
                                                                                                                                                > > do to
                                                                                                                                                > > > help?????
                                                                                                                                                > > > i just quaranteened him.
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > hes still alive.
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Rachel
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                > > > .
                                                                                                                                                > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                > > important to
                                                                                                                                                > > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                > modify
                                                                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                we
                                                                                                                                                > > Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                > > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                                                                                                                                > > subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10583 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!

                                                                                                                                                2 gallon goldfish setup?????

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Maybe what they say about petsmart is true. I will be surprised if the goldfish lives for a few months. You really need to understand what a goldfish is and what are its needs. If you keep a goldfish in a 2 gallon tank, you need to change 50% of water every other day to keep it fresh. What rocks absorb ammonia?

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                Ps: please reconsider the size of your tank if you want to keep your fish alive.

                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Rachel
                                                                                                                                                Sent: 23 April 2005 20:22
                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!

                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                i suppose i have been neglecting cleaning my goldfish setup. never
                                                                                                                                                had any before but i am incr4dibly busy. damnit i feel bad. the
                                                                                                                                                other goldfish is doing fine though. i feed them once a day. and
                                                                                                                                                theres an undergravel filter. water changes are like maybe every 2
                                                                                                                                                to 4 weeks. its a 2 gallon setup. i have rocks that absorb ammonia n
                                                                                                                                                i use prime, so its never been a real problem. at all.

                                                                                                                                                i pulled water from the setup to quaranteen him in. hes trying to
                                                                                                                                                swim a bit. i ended up totally cleaning out my setup, and my other
                                                                                                                                                goldfish looks perky.

                                                                                                                                                my sicky goldfish's got white stuff on his fins. wht does it mean?!

                                                                                                                                                oh and my friends betta ate the tail off my lil sucker fish. *sigh*

                                                                                                                                                Rae

                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                                                <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Nim,  Knowing the answers to these questions would certainly go a
                                                                                                                                                > long ways in getting to the bottom of things still up in the air,
                                                                                                                                                and
                                                                                                                                                > possibly understanding and/or confirming diagnoses already
                                                                                                                                                suggested
                                                                                                                                                > with information furnished.  Also, knowing such things as the
                                                                                                                                                present
                                                                                                                                                > feeding routine, gravel vacuuming routine and water changing
                                                                                                                                                routine
                                                                                                                                                > would help. 
                                                                                                                                                Ray                                                    
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                \                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , " Nimish Mathur " <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > Well. As I said, I am not against water changes and yes, a large
                                                                                                                                                > water
                                                                                                                                                > > change could benefit the fish and I don't see any harm in a
                                                                                                                                                single
                                                                                                                                                > water
                                                                                                                                                > > change either. I was just referring to the point that Water
                                                                                                                                                change
                                                                                                                                                > is the
                                                                                                                                                > > most important step for a cure/problem.
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > 
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Most important however we need to know:
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Has the water been tested for Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates?
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Are any other fish exhibiting any odd behaviour?
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > What was the goldfish fed in general?
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > How was the quarantine tank setup? Cycled or not?
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > How big is the quarantine tank?
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > 
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Rachel, I think everyone will need answers to these questions
                                                                                                                                                before
                                                                                                                                                > > something more accurate solution can be given.
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > 
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Ray, Paul, Rob am I correct?
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > 
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > 
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > 
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > 
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >   _____ 
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On
                                                                                                                                                > > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                > > Sent: 22 April 2005 19:30
                                                                                                                                                > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > 
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > While the goldfish (black moore ) has been quarantined, I would
                                                                                                                                                > assume
                                                                                                                                                > > (admittedy maybe wrongly so), that set-up water for the
                                                                                                                                                quarantine
                                                                                                                                                > > tank was drawn from the larger tank, as would be the normal
                                                                                                                                                thing
                                                                                                                                                > > thing to do.  No one would have (or should have) filled the
                                                                                                                                                > > quarantine tank with fresh drawn water, although ifb that were
                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                > > case I'm sure Rachel, or anyone,  would realize that the tank
                                                                                                                                                needs
                                                                                                                                                > > no further "water changing".  If by chance, the quarantine tank
                                                                                                                                                has
                                                                                                                                                > > been up and running for any amount of time and is established, a
                                                                                                                                                > > water change on it in this case would be the best procedure
                                                                                                                                                > anyway. 
                                                                                                                                                > > The reason behind this is to ensure that the ammonia and or
                                                                                                                                                > nitrites
                                                                                                                                                > > are at a minumum, since excess amounts of these toxins are one
                                                                                                                                                of
                                                                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                                                                > > main causes of this fish's condition if these chemicals are
                                                                                                                                                > present. 
                                                                                                                                                > > Even though none of the other fish are showing these symtoms
                                                                                                                                                yet,
                                                                                                                                                > why
                                                                                                                                                > > wait until they may?  Always best to know you are starting with
                                                                                                                                                > good
                                                                                                                                                > > clean water and go from there if the problem persists.  Test
                                                                                                                                                > results
                                                                                                                                                > > would be very helpful, but as this would be the first place to
                                                                                                                                                > start,
                                                                                                                                                > > and no values were given, I am going with all other factors
                                                                                                                                                > > considered, having no other choice.  The USUAL cause of red-
                                                                                                                                                > streaked
                                                                                                                                                > > fins is "brown-blood" caused by nitrite poisoning, so why play
                                                                                                                                                > games
                                                                                                                                                > > and wait (after which it may be too late), when treating for
                                                                                                                                                this
                                                                                                                                                > > can't hurt and may very well save the fish if done as a first
                                                                                                                                                > > resort.  If this doesn't help, there's nothing lost, and good
                                                                                                                                                water
                                                                                                                                                > > is never bad for fish. 
                                                                                                                                                > Ray                                         
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                \                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , " Nimish Mathur "
                                                                                                                                                <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > > I agree that a water change may help, but since the goldfish
                                                                                                                                                has
                                                                                                                                                > > already
                                                                                                                                                > > > been quarantined and large water changes further may stress it
                                                                                                                                                > too
                                                                                                                                                > > much. I
                                                                                                                                                > > > don't disagree that water change should be done but there
                                                                                                                                                should
                                                                                                                                                > > also be a
                                                                                                                                                > > > reason associated with it. Not sure if Rachel has tested for
                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                > > nitrogen
                                                                                                                                                > > > components (NH3, No2, No3) and all would really depend on
                                                                                                                                                that.
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > 
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Fancy goldfish are very much susceptible to this kind of
                                                                                                                                                behavior
                                                                                                                                                > > even in
                                                                                                                                                > > > near perfect water conditions (I mean zero Nitrites, ammonia
                                                                                                                                                and
                                                                                                                                                > low
                                                                                                                                                > > > nitrates with other components of the water fairly stable)
                                                                                                                                                just
                                                                                                                                                > > because of
                                                                                                                                                > > > their diet. The torn and streaked fancy tail and fins could
                                                                                                                                                just
                                                                                                                                                > be
                                                                                                                                                > > an
                                                                                                                                                > > > indication of too much physical stress that fish is suffering
                                                                                                                                                > > trying to stay
                                                                                                                                                > > > afloat or balanced. I have seen many goldfish behave this way
                                                                                                                                                and
                                                                                                                                                > > if they
                                                                                                                                                > > > are really let on their own without further stress and no
                                                                                                                                                water
                                                                                                                                                > > movement,
                                                                                                                                                > > > they remedy themselves in a couple of days. Then if fed with
                                                                                                                                                > green
                                                                                                                                                > > food,
                                                                                                                                                > > > they fully recover in a couple of weeks.
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > 
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Personally, I don't believe in water changes when they are not
                                                                                                                                                > > needed. If
                                                                                                                                                > > > all fish are showing signs of distress, then yes, I could
                                                                                                                                                > consider
                                                                                                                                                > > a large
                                                                                                                                                > > > water change but if others are fine, I see no real reason.
                                                                                                                                                Large
                                                                                                                                                > > water
                                                                                                                                                > > > changes do have a stressful effect which could make matters
                                                                                                                                                worse.
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > 
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > 
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > 
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >   _____ 
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On
                                                                                                                                                > > > Behalf Of FortWayneFish@a...
                                                                                                                                                > > > Sent: 22 April 2005 17:39
                                                                                                                                                > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore
                                                                                                                                                > goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > 
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Nim,
                                                                                                                                                > > > You forgot to mention the best cure for the problem...
                                                                                                                                                > > > Would you also agree with Ray to do Large frequent
                                                                                                                                                waterchanges?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > My opinion is waterchanges cure almost anything.  I usually do
                                                                                                                                                a
                                                                                                                                                > > waterchange
                                                                                                                                                > > > and gravel vaccumm when ever I see something going wrong. 
                                                                                                                                                Since
                                                                                                                                                > we
                                                                                                                                                > > are
                                                                                                                                                > > > talking a Goldfish a 80% waterchange does not seem
                                                                                                                                                unreasonable
                                                                                                                                                > to
                                                                                                                                                > > me.  I'd
                                                                                                                                                > > > do 75-80% waterchange with a good vaccumming of the
                                                                                                                                                substrate. 
                                                                                                                                                > Of
                                                                                                                                                > > course
                                                                                                                                                > > > fill with unchlorinated water...
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > rob
                                                                                                                                                > > > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > In a message dated 4/22/2005 9:29:31 AM US Eastern Standard
                                                                                                                                                Time,
                                                                                                                                                > > > nimmat4@y... writes:
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > just slight corrections Ray, if you don't mind :-)
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Ammonia is more toxic at high PH and nitrite toxicity does not
                                                                                                                                                > have
                                                                                                                                                > > any
                                                                                                                                                > > > major toxicity level change due to PH change. This is because
                                                                                                                                                > > ammonia is an
                                                                                                                                                > > > Alkali itself and in low PH it tends to remain as Ammonium
                                                                                                                                                ions
                                                                                                                                                > > rather then
                                                                                                                                                > > > Ammonia or organic ammonia complexes. Nitrites are basic salts
                                                                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                                                                > > their
                                                                                                                                                > > > levels etc. do not change with a change in PH.
                                                                                                                                                > > > Salt does help prevent the brown blood disease that is caused
                                                                                                                                                by
                                                                                                                                                > > Nitrite
                                                                                                                                                > > > poisoning but in any case, salt does help fish even in ammonia
                                                                                                                                                > > poisoning by
                                                                                                                                                > > > trying to reduce the overall stress on it. (I know this is 
                                                                                                                                                very
                                                                                                                                                > > much
                                                                                                                                                > > > debatable but I think we have had too many debates on this.)
                                                                                                                                                > > > Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                > > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                > > > .
                                                                                                                                                > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                > > important to
                                                                                                                                                > > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                > modify
                                                                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, 
                                                                                                                                                we
                                                                                                                                                > > Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >   _____ 
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                                                                > > > *      To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                > thanks
                                                                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                > important to
                                                                                                                                                > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                modify
                                                                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                                                                > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we
                                                                                                                                                > Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >   _____ 
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > *      To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10584 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                By that question, I have to assume that you have not added any. I
                                                                                                                                                have outlined the procedure to treat your black moore in my reply to
                                                                                                                                                your original post for help (my message #10563, April 22, 10:12AM),
                                                                                                                                                going by the probable cause of what's wrong with him. by what info
                                                                                                                                                you relayed. Looks like, up 'till now, you have chosen to disregard
                                                                                                                                                my instructions for whatever reason. Again, the salt to use is
                                                                                                                                                either Kosher salt or aquarium salt, however, you must first do a
                                                                                                                                                major water change and I guess by now, you'll need a fungus
                                                                                                                                                medication; I hope its not too late for him. I really don't know why
                                                                                                                                                I bother going to the trouble of giving advise when it is totally
                                                                                                                                                disregarded, and then the fish gets worse. Please go back and re-
                                                                                                                                                check that post if you want to save this fish. I'll try to work with
                                                                                                                                                you and noticed you put up a post minutes before this, to which I'll
                                                                                                                                                answer your questions shortly. Ray
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > what kind fo salt anyway.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                                                > <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Sounds possibly like Fungus; have you added the salt as was
                                                                                                                                                > > recommended?
                                                                                                                                                > Ray
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > well hes doing worse but hes still fighting. i can try that but
                                                                                                                                                > i
                                                                                                                                                > > > dont know if he will eat at all i can try though. hes not
                                                                                                                                                moving
                                                                                                                                                > > > well. new thing is his fins have white stuff on them.
                                                                                                                                                > > > help?!!
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Rae
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                                                                > <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Try and see if he eats crushed deskinned green peas. This is
                                                                                                                                                a
                                                                                                                                                > > > very common
                                                                                                                                                > > > > problem in goldfish and they need to be fed vegetable food
                                                                                                                                                > very
                                                                                                                                                > > > often to
                                                                                                                                                > > > > prevent bloat. I am sure he will live through this. Don't
                                                                                                                                                > create
                                                                                                                                                > > > any major
                                                                                                                                                > > > > water movements as this will stress him further.
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Behalf Of Rachel
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Sent: 22 April 2005 01:57
                                                                                                                                                > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > my smaller black moore goldfish is floating on his side and
                                                                                                                                                > his
                                                                                                                                                > > > tail
                                                                                                                                                > > > > looks kind of frayed but its got red in it. and its not
                                                                                                                                                > supposed
                                                                                                                                                > > > to.
                                                                                                                                                > > > > my other fish looks fine but hes bigger. is there anything i
                                                                                                                                                > can
                                                                                                                                                > > > do to
                                                                                                                                                > > > > help?????
                                                                                                                                                > > > > i just quaranteened him.
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > hes still alive.
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Rachel
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                replying,
                                                                                                                                                > > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                > > > > .
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                > > > important to
                                                                                                                                                > > > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                > > modify
                                                                                                                                                > > > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                > we
                                                                                                                                                > > > Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > > > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10585 From: Rachel Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                the thing is these guys are tiny. theyre the smallest ones you can
                                                                                                                                                get. and ive never been to petsmart.
                                                                                                                                                oh i dunno some rocks that they say absorb ammonia. and they seeem
                                                                                                                                                to work well. i got thoes at wal mart. i live in a dorm right now
                                                                                                                                                and i ran out of room awhile ago. i honestly do plan on upgrading
                                                                                                                                                them to at least a 10 gallon tank, but i need the ROOM for it. im
                                                                                                                                                moving out and back home in a few weeks for the summer. so i might b
                                                                                                                                                able to find room there, but im back at the dorms, hopefully in my
                                                                                                                                                own room, where there will be space for that big of a setup. and i
                                                                                                                                                dont want to anger my parents about the fish. they dont seem to like
                                                                                                                                                them much.
                                                                                                                                                when i left my 5.5 gal tank home for a month all my fish except for
                                                                                                                                                one died. and there was decaying food matter all on the bottom.
                                                                                                                                                turns out he didnt crush the flakes.
                                                                                                                                                moneys kind of tight cuz i have a low hour job and im a broke
                                                                                                                                                college student... yay.

                                                                                                                                                yeah.
                                                                                                                                                rae


                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > 2 gallon goldfish setup?????
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Maybe what they say about petsmart is true. I will be surprised if
                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                > goldfish lives for a few months. You really need to understand
                                                                                                                                                what a
                                                                                                                                                > goldfish is and what are its needs. If you keep a goldfish in a 2
                                                                                                                                                gallon
                                                                                                                                                > tank, you need to change 50% of water every other day to keep it
                                                                                                                                                fresh. What
                                                                                                                                                > rocks absorb ammonia?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Ps: please reconsider the size of your tank if you want to keep
                                                                                                                                                your fish
                                                                                                                                                > alive.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > _____
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > Behalf Of Rachel
                                                                                                                                                > Sent: 23 April 2005 20:22
                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > i suppose i have been neglecting cleaning my goldfish setup. never
                                                                                                                                                > had any before but i am incr4dibly busy. damnit i feel bad. the
                                                                                                                                                > other goldfish is doing fine though. i feed them once a day. and
                                                                                                                                                > theres an undergravel filter. water changes are like maybe every 2
                                                                                                                                                > to 4 weeks. its a 2 gallon setup. i have rocks that absorb ammonia
                                                                                                                                                n
                                                                                                                                                > i use prime, so its never been a real problem. at all.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > i pulled water from the setup to quaranteen him in. hes trying to
                                                                                                                                                > swim a bit. i ended up totally cleaning out my setup, and my other
                                                                                                                                                > goldfish looks perky.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > my sicky goldfish's got white stuff on his fins. wht does it mean?!
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > oh and my friends betta ate the tail off my lil sucker fish. *sigh*
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Rae
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                                                > <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Nim, Knowing the answers to these questions would certainly go
                                                                                                                                                a
                                                                                                                                                > > long ways in getting to the bottom of things still up in the
                                                                                                                                                air,
                                                                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                                                                > > possibly understanding and/or confirming diagnoses already
                                                                                                                                                > suggested
                                                                                                                                                > > with information furnished. Also, knowing such things as the
                                                                                                                                                > present
                                                                                                                                                > > feeding routine, gravel vacuuming routine and water changing
                                                                                                                                                > routine
                                                                                                                                                > > would help.
                                                                                                                                                > Ray
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                                                                <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > > Well. As I said, I am not against water changes and yes, a
                                                                                                                                                large
                                                                                                                                                > > water
                                                                                                                                                > > > change could benefit the fish and I don't see any harm in a
                                                                                                                                                > single
                                                                                                                                                > > water
                                                                                                                                                > > > change either. I was just referring to the point that Water
                                                                                                                                                > change
                                                                                                                                                > > is the
                                                                                                                                                > > > most important step for a cure/problem.
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Most important however we need to know:
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Has the water been tested for Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Are any other fish exhibiting any odd behaviour?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > What was the goldfish fed in general?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > How was the quarantine tank setup? Cycled or not?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > How big is the quarantine tank?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Rachel, I think everyone will need answers to these questions
                                                                                                                                                > before
                                                                                                                                                > > > something more accurate solution can be given.
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Ray, Paul, Rob am I correct?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > > > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                > > > Sent: 22 April 2005 19:30
                                                                                                                                                > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > While the goldfish (black moore) has been quarantined, I would
                                                                                                                                                > > assume
                                                                                                                                                > > > (admittedy maybe wrongly so), that set-up water for the
                                                                                                                                                > quarantine
                                                                                                                                                > > > tank was drawn from the larger tank, as would be the normal
                                                                                                                                                > thing
                                                                                                                                                > > > thing to do. No one would have (or should have) filled the
                                                                                                                                                > > > quarantine tank with fresh drawn water, although ifb that were
                                                                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > case I'm sure Rachel, or anyone, would realize that the tank
                                                                                                                                                > needs
                                                                                                                                                > > > no further "water changing". If by chance, the quarantine
                                                                                                                                                tank
                                                                                                                                                > has
                                                                                                                                                > > > been up and running for any amount of time and is established,
                                                                                                                                                a
                                                                                                                                                > > > water change on it in this case would be the best procedure
                                                                                                                                                > > anyway.
                                                                                                                                                > > > The reason behind this is to ensure that the ammonia and or
                                                                                                                                                > > nitrites
                                                                                                                                                > > > are at a minumum, since excess amounts of these toxins are one
                                                                                                                                                > of
                                                                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > main causes of this fish's condition if these chemicals are
                                                                                                                                                > > present.
                                                                                                                                                > > > Even though none of the other fish are showing these symtoms
                                                                                                                                                > yet,
                                                                                                                                                > > why
                                                                                                                                                > > > wait until they may? Always best to know you are starting
                                                                                                                                                with
                                                                                                                                                > > good
                                                                                                                                                > > > clean water and go from there if the problem persists. Test
                                                                                                                                                > > results
                                                                                                                                                > > > would be very helpful, but as this would be the first place to
                                                                                                                                                > > start,
                                                                                                                                                > > > and no values were given, I am going with all other factors
                                                                                                                                                > > > considered, having no other choice. The USUAL cause of red-
                                                                                                                                                > > streaked
                                                                                                                                                > > > fins is "brown-blood" caused by nitrite poisoning, so why play
                                                                                                                                                > > games
                                                                                                                                                > > > and wait (after which it may be too late), when treating for
                                                                                                                                                > this
                                                                                                                                                > > > can't hurt and may very well save the fish if done as a first
                                                                                                                                                > > > resort. If this doesn't help, there's nothing lost, and good
                                                                                                                                                > water
                                                                                                                                                > > > is never bad for fish.
                                                                                                                                                > > Ray
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                                                                > <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > > > I agree that a water change may help, but since the goldfish
                                                                                                                                                > has
                                                                                                                                                > > > already
                                                                                                                                                > > > > been quarantined and large water changes further may stress
                                                                                                                                                it
                                                                                                                                                > > too
                                                                                                                                                > > > much. I
                                                                                                                                                > > > > don't disagree that water change should be done but there
                                                                                                                                                > should
                                                                                                                                                > > > also be a
                                                                                                                                                > > > > reason associated with it. Not sure if Rachel has tested for
                                                                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > nitrogen
                                                                                                                                                > > > > components (NH3, No2, No3) and all would really depend on
                                                                                                                                                > that.
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Fancy goldfish are very much susceptible to this kind of
                                                                                                                                                > behavior
                                                                                                                                                > > > even in
                                                                                                                                                > > > > near perfect water conditions (I mean zero Nitrites, ammonia
                                                                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                                                                > > low
                                                                                                                                                > > > > nitrates with other components of the water fairly stable)
                                                                                                                                                > just
                                                                                                                                                > > > because of
                                                                                                                                                > > > > their diet. The torn and streaked fancy tail and fins could
                                                                                                                                                > just
                                                                                                                                                > > be
                                                                                                                                                > > > an
                                                                                                                                                > > > > indication of too much physical stress that fish is
                                                                                                                                                suffering
                                                                                                                                                > > > trying to stay
                                                                                                                                                > > > > afloat or balanced. I have seen many goldfish behave this
                                                                                                                                                way
                                                                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                                                                > > > if they
                                                                                                                                                > > > > are really let on their own without further stress and no
                                                                                                                                                > water
                                                                                                                                                > > > movement,
                                                                                                                                                > > > > they remedy themselves in a couple of days. Then if fed with
                                                                                                                                                > > green
                                                                                                                                                > > > food,
                                                                                                                                                > > > > they fully recover in a couple of weeks.
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Personally, I don't believe in water changes when they are
                                                                                                                                                not
                                                                                                                                                > > > needed. If
                                                                                                                                                > > > > all fish are showing signs of distress, then yes, I could
                                                                                                                                                > > consider
                                                                                                                                                > > > a large
                                                                                                                                                > > > > water change but if others are fine, I see no real reason.
                                                                                                                                                > Large
                                                                                                                                                > > > water
                                                                                                                                                > > > > changes do have a stressful effect which could make matters
                                                                                                                                                > worse.
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Behalf Of FortWayneFish@a...
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Sent: 22 April 2005 17:39
                                                                                                                                                > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore
                                                                                                                                                > > goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Nim,
                                                                                                                                                > > > > You forgot to mention the best cure for the problem...
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Would you also agree with Ray to do Large frequent
                                                                                                                                                > waterchanges?
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > My opinion is waterchanges cure almost anything. I usually
                                                                                                                                                do
                                                                                                                                                > a
                                                                                                                                                > > > waterchange
                                                                                                                                                > > > > and gravel vaccumm when ever I see something going wrong.
                                                                                                                                                > Since
                                                                                                                                                > > we
                                                                                                                                                > > > are
                                                                                                                                                > > > > talking a Goldfish a 80% waterchange does not seem
                                                                                                                                                > unreasonable
                                                                                                                                                > > to
                                                                                                                                                > > > me. I'd
                                                                                                                                                > > > > do 75-80% waterchange with a good vaccumming of the
                                                                                                                                                > substrate.
                                                                                                                                                > > Of
                                                                                                                                                > > > course
                                                                                                                                                > > > > fill with unchlorinated water...
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > rob
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > In a message dated 4/22/2005 9:29:31 AM US Eastern Standard
                                                                                                                                                > Time,
                                                                                                                                                > > > > nimmat4@y... writes:
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > just slight corrections Ray, if you don't mind :-)
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Ammonia is more toxic at high PH and nitrite toxicity does
                                                                                                                                                not
                                                                                                                                                > > have
                                                                                                                                                > > > any
                                                                                                                                                > > > > major toxicity level change due to PH change. This is
                                                                                                                                                because
                                                                                                                                                > > > ammonia is an
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Alkali itself and in low PH it tends to remain as Ammonium
                                                                                                                                                > ions
                                                                                                                                                > > > rather then
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Ammonia or organic ammonia complexes. Nitrites are basic
                                                                                                                                                salts
                                                                                                                                                > > and
                                                                                                                                                > > > their
                                                                                                                                                > > > > levels etc. do not change with a change in PH.
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Salt does help prevent the brown blood disease that is
                                                                                                                                                caused
                                                                                                                                                > by
                                                                                                                                                > > > Nitrite
                                                                                                                                                > > > > poisoning but in any case, salt does help fish even in
                                                                                                                                                ammonia
                                                                                                                                                > > > poisoning by
                                                                                                                                                > > > > trying to reduce the overall stress on it. (I know this is
                                                                                                                                                > very
                                                                                                                                                > > > much
                                                                                                                                                > > > > debatable but I think we have had too many debates on this.)
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                replying,
                                                                                                                                                > > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                > > > > .
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is
                                                                                                                                                not
                                                                                                                                                > > > important to
                                                                                                                                                > > > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                > > modify
                                                                                                                                                > > > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-
                                                                                                                                                ,
                                                                                                                                                > we
                                                                                                                                                > > > Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > > > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                > > > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                                                                                                                                > > > subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                > > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                > > > .
                                                                                                                                                > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                > > important to
                                                                                                                                                > > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                > modify
                                                                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                we
                                                                                                                                                > > Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                > > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                                                                                                                                > > subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                important to
                                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > _____
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10586 From: Rachel Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                actually i was just asking cuz i didnt wanna look like an ass if i
                                                                                                                                                put the wrong kind in. i did put some in. hes in a rather small
                                                                                                                                                quaranteen because i have no room or anything else to put him in n i
                                                                                                                                                couldnt really mix the salt cuz i didnt wanan bother him. quite
                                                                                                                                                frankly up until yesterday i had to crawl over my bed to reach him.
                                                                                                                                                had to do some cleaning on the floor. im trying, i didnt disregard
                                                                                                                                                anything. i put some new water with a tad bit more salt today. hes
                                                                                                                                                movin around an stuff.

                                                                                                                                                sometimes i jus wonder if its worth it ya know. i do love my fish,
                                                                                                                                                but ive been very sick and its taken its toll on me. not to mention
                                                                                                                                                work objects and school objects. ick maybe ive taken on too much.


                                                                                                                                                Rae


                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                                                <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > By that question, I have to assume that you have not added any. I
                                                                                                                                                > have outlined the procedure to treat your black moore in my reply
                                                                                                                                                to
                                                                                                                                                > your original post for help (my message #10563, April 22,
                                                                                                                                                10:12AM),
                                                                                                                                                > going by the probable cause of what's wrong with him. by what info
                                                                                                                                                > you relayed. Looks like, up 'till now, you have chosen to
                                                                                                                                                disregard
                                                                                                                                                > my instructions for whatever reason. Again, the salt to use is
                                                                                                                                                > either Kosher salt or aquarium salt, however, you must first do a
                                                                                                                                                > major water change and I guess by now, you'll need a fungus
                                                                                                                                                > medication; I hope its not too late for him. I really don't know
                                                                                                                                                why
                                                                                                                                                > I bother going to the trouble of giving advise when it is totally
                                                                                                                                                > disregarded, and then the fish gets worse. Please go back and re-
                                                                                                                                                > check that post if you want to save this fish. I'll try to work
                                                                                                                                                with
                                                                                                                                                > you and noticed you put up a post minutes before this, to which
                                                                                                                                                I'll
                                                                                                                                                > answer your questions shortly.
                                                                                                                                                Ray
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                \

                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > what kind fo salt anyway.
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                                                > > <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Sounds possibly like Fungus; have you added the salt as was
                                                                                                                                                > > > recommended?
                                                                                                                                                > > Ray
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel"
                                                                                                                                                <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > well hes doing worse but hes still fighting. i can try that
                                                                                                                                                but
                                                                                                                                                > > i
                                                                                                                                                > > > > dont know if he will eat at all i can try though. hes not
                                                                                                                                                > moving
                                                                                                                                                > > > > well. new thing is his fins have white stuff on them.
                                                                                                                                                > > > > help?!!
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Rae
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                                                                > > <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Try and see if he eats crushed deskinned green peas. This
                                                                                                                                                is
                                                                                                                                                > a
                                                                                                                                                > > > > very common
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > problem in goldfish and they need to be fed vegetable food
                                                                                                                                                > > very
                                                                                                                                                > > > > often to
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > prevent bloat. I am sure he will live through this. Don't
                                                                                                                                                > > create
                                                                                                                                                > > > > any major
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > water movements as this will stress him further.
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Behalf Of Rachel
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Sent: 22 April 2005 01:57
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > my smaller black moore goldfish is floating on his side
                                                                                                                                                and
                                                                                                                                                > > his
                                                                                                                                                > > > > tail
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > looks kind of frayed but its got red in it. and its not
                                                                                                                                                > > supposed
                                                                                                                                                > > > > to.
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > my other fish looks fine but hes bigger. is there anything
                                                                                                                                                i
                                                                                                                                                > > can
                                                                                                                                                > > > > do to
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > help?????
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > i just quaranteened him.
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > hes still alive.
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Rachel
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                > replying,
                                                                                                                                                > > > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > .
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is
                                                                                                                                                not
                                                                                                                                                > > > > important to
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                message
                                                                                                                                                > > > modify
                                                                                                                                                > > > > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-
                                                                                                                                                ,
                                                                                                                                                > > we
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                                                                                                                                > > > > subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10587 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                First of all, for the benefit of all following this topic, certain
                                                                                                                                                types of goldfish, such as the black moore, are more susceptible to
                                                                                                                                                adverse conditions than others. The reason why your other goldfish
                                                                                                                                                is doing so well in spite of the poor water. As you are finding out,
                                                                                                                                                goldfish in general need more maintenance than most tropicals as they
                                                                                                                                                produce much more waste. Your feeding of once a day is fine,
                                                                                                                                                provided you feed no more than the fish will clean up in 5 minutes
                                                                                                                                                (10 minutes at the most). Your water changes are not nearly as
                                                                                                                                                frequently enough as is needed. Also, you do not say how much water
                                                                                                                                                you change at those times. Preferably, a good portion (1/4 to 1/3
                                                                                                                                                the tank) should be changed weekly with the old water being drawn
                                                                                                                                                from the bottom, at the time you're vacuuming the gravel. I do hope
                                                                                                                                                that you realize those ammonia-absorbing rocks you are using need to
                                                                                                                                                be periodically recharged (in Kosher salt) overnight for them to
                                                                                                                                                continue working. I kind of assumed you pulled water from the main
                                                                                                                                                tank to set up the quarantine tank, which is the most logical and
                                                                                                                                                proper procedure; however, with this, the water (main tank) needed a
                                                                                                                                                large partial water change before doing anything, for the benefit of
                                                                                                                                                both fish. You still haven't mentioned anything about water tests,
                                                                                                                                                so I must assume you have no kits(?). Its a good idea to have these
                                                                                                                                                kits on hand and to do these tests (ammonia, nitrite, etc.)
                                                                                                                                                periodically to see the condition of your water before problems come
                                                                                                                                                up. Knowing your pH would also come in handy which, because of your
                                                                                                                                                fish's reaction to the apparently poor water, is probably in the mid
                                                                                                                                                to high 7's (normally not a problem), but knowing this, coupled with
                                                                                                                                                the fact that the fish's fins were red-streaked could have alerted
                                                                                                                                                you to the fact that this condition was due to high nitrites or
                                                                                                                                                ammonia as that's the reaction in alkaline water. Proceed as I
                                                                                                                                                mentioned and you should see some improvement, although you may now
                                                                                                                                                have to add a funguscide. Ray
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > i suppose i have been neglecting cleaning my goldfish setup. never
                                                                                                                                                > had any before but i am incr4dibly busy. damnit i feel bad. the
                                                                                                                                                > other goldfish is doing fine though. i feed them once a day. and
                                                                                                                                                > theres an undergravel filter. water changes are like maybe every 2
                                                                                                                                                > to 4 weeks. its a 2 gallon setup. i have rocks that absorb ammonia
                                                                                                                                                n
                                                                                                                                                > i use prime, so its never been a real problem. at all.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > i pulled water from the setup to quaranteen him in. hes trying to
                                                                                                                                                > swim a bit. i ended up totally cleaning out my setup, and my other
                                                                                                                                                > goldfish looks perky.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > my sicky goldfish's got white stuff on his fins. wht does it mean?!
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > oh and my friends betta ate the tail off my lil sucker fish. *sigh*
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Rae
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                                                > <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Nim, Knowing the answers to these questions would certainly go a
                                                                                                                                                > > long ways in getting to the bottom of things still up in the air,
                                                                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                                                                > > possibly understanding and/or confirming diagnoses already
                                                                                                                                                > suggested
                                                                                                                                                > > with information furnished. Also, knowing such things as the
                                                                                                                                                > present
                                                                                                                                                > > feeding routine, gravel vacuuming routine and water changing
                                                                                                                                                > routine
                                                                                                                                                > > would help.
                                                                                                                                                > Ray
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                                                                <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > > Well. As I said, I am not against water changes and yes, a
                                                                                                                                                large
                                                                                                                                                > > water
                                                                                                                                                > > > change could benefit the fish and I don't see any harm in a
                                                                                                                                                > single
                                                                                                                                                > > water
                                                                                                                                                > > > change either. I was just referring to the point that Water
                                                                                                                                                > change
                                                                                                                                                > > is the
                                                                                                                                                > > > most important step for a cure/problem.
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Most important however we need to know:
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Has the water been tested for Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Are any other fish exhibiting any odd behaviour?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > What was the goldfish fed in general?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > How was the quarantine tank setup? Cycled or not?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > How big is the quarantine tank?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Rachel, I think everyone will need answers to these questions
                                                                                                                                                > before
                                                                                                                                                > > > something more accurate solution can be given.
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Ray, Paul, Rob am I correct?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > > > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                > > > Sent: 22 April 2005 19:30
                                                                                                                                                > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > While the goldfish (black moore) has been quarantined, I would
                                                                                                                                                > > assume
                                                                                                                                                > > > (admittedy maybe wrongly so), that set-up water for the
                                                                                                                                                > quarantine
                                                                                                                                                > > > tank was drawn from the larger tank, as would be the normal
                                                                                                                                                > thing
                                                                                                                                                > > > thing to do. No one would have (or should have) filled the
                                                                                                                                                > > > quarantine tank with fresh drawn water, although ifb that were
                                                                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > case I'm sure Rachel, or anyone, would realize that the tank
                                                                                                                                                > needs
                                                                                                                                                > > > no further "water changing". If by chance, the quarantine tank
                                                                                                                                                > has
                                                                                                                                                > > > been up and running for any amount of time and is established,
                                                                                                                                                a
                                                                                                                                                > > > water change on it in this case would be the best procedure
                                                                                                                                                > > anyway.
                                                                                                                                                > > > The reason behind this is to ensure that the ammonia and or
                                                                                                                                                > > nitrites
                                                                                                                                                > > > are at a minumum, since excess amounts of these toxins are one
                                                                                                                                                > of
                                                                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > main causes of this fish's condition if these chemicals are
                                                                                                                                                > > present.
                                                                                                                                                > > > Even though none of the other fish are showing these symtoms
                                                                                                                                                > yet,
                                                                                                                                                > > why
                                                                                                                                                > > > wait until they may? Always best to know you are starting with
                                                                                                                                                > > good
                                                                                                                                                > > > clean water and go from there if the problem persists. Test
                                                                                                                                                > > results
                                                                                                                                                > > > would be very helpful, but as this would be the first place to
                                                                                                                                                > > start,
                                                                                                                                                > > > and no values were given, I am going with all other factors
                                                                                                                                                > > > considered, having no other choice. The USUAL cause of red-
                                                                                                                                                > > streaked
                                                                                                                                                > > > fins is "brown-blood" caused by nitrite poisoning, so why play
                                                                                                                                                > > games
                                                                                                                                                > > > and wait (after which it may be too late), when treating for
                                                                                                                                                > this
                                                                                                                                                > > > can't hurt and may very well save the fish if done as a first
                                                                                                                                                > > > resort. If this doesn't help, there's nothing lost, and good
                                                                                                                                                > water
                                                                                                                                                > > > is never bad for fish.
                                                                                                                                                > > Ray
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                                                                > <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > > > I agree that a water change may help, but since the goldfish
                                                                                                                                                > has
                                                                                                                                                > > > already
                                                                                                                                                > > > > been quarantined and large water changes further may stress
                                                                                                                                                it
                                                                                                                                                > > too
                                                                                                                                                > > > much. I
                                                                                                                                                > > > > don't disagree that water change should be done but there
                                                                                                                                                > should
                                                                                                                                                > > > also be a
                                                                                                                                                > > > > reason associated with it. Not sure if Rachel has tested for
                                                                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > nitrogen
                                                                                                                                                > > > > components (NH3, No2, No3) and all would really depend on
                                                                                                                                                > that.
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Fancy goldfish are very much susceptible to this kind of
                                                                                                                                                > behavior
                                                                                                                                                > > > even in
                                                                                                                                                > > > > near perfect water conditions (I mean zero Nitrites, ammonia
                                                                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                                                                > > low
                                                                                                                                                > > > > nitrates with other components of the water fairly stable)
                                                                                                                                                > just
                                                                                                                                                > > > because of
                                                                                                                                                > > > > their diet. The torn and streaked fancy tail and fins could
                                                                                                                                                > just
                                                                                                                                                > > be
                                                                                                                                                > > > an
                                                                                                                                                > > > > indication of too much physical stress that fish is suffering
                                                                                                                                                > > > trying to stay
                                                                                                                                                > > > > afloat or balanced. I have seen many goldfish behave this way
                                                                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                                                                > > > if they
                                                                                                                                                > > > > are really let on their own without further stress and no
                                                                                                                                                > water
                                                                                                                                                > > > movement,
                                                                                                                                                > > > > they remedy themselves in a couple of days. Then if fed with
                                                                                                                                                > > green
                                                                                                                                                > > > food,
                                                                                                                                                > > > > they fully recover in a couple of weeks.
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Personally, I don't believe in water changes when they are
                                                                                                                                                not
                                                                                                                                                > > > needed. If
                                                                                                                                                > > > > all fish are showing signs of distress, then yes, I could
                                                                                                                                                > > consider
                                                                                                                                                > > > a large
                                                                                                                                                > > > > water change but if others are fine, I see no real reason.
                                                                                                                                                > Large
                                                                                                                                                > > > water
                                                                                                                                                > > > > changes do have a stressful effect which could make matters
                                                                                                                                                > worse.
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Behalf Of FortWayneFish@a...
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Sent: 22 April 2005 17:39
                                                                                                                                                > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore
                                                                                                                                                > > goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Nim,
                                                                                                                                                > > > > You forgot to mention the best cure for the problem...
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Would you also agree with Ray to do Large frequent
                                                                                                                                                > waterchanges?
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > My opinion is waterchanges cure almost anything. I usually
                                                                                                                                                do
                                                                                                                                                > a
                                                                                                                                                > > > waterchange
                                                                                                                                                > > > > and gravel vaccumm when ever I see something going wrong.
                                                                                                                                                > Since
                                                                                                                                                > > we
                                                                                                                                                > > > are
                                                                                                                                                > > > > talking a Goldfish a 80% waterchange does not seem
                                                                                                                                                > unreasonable
                                                                                                                                                > > to
                                                                                                                                                > > > me. I'd
                                                                                                                                                > > > > do 75-80% waterchange with a good vaccumming of the
                                                                                                                                                > substrate.
                                                                                                                                                > > Of
                                                                                                                                                > > > course
                                                                                                                                                > > > > fill with unchlorinated water...
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > rob
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > In a message dated 4/22/2005 9:29:31 AM US Eastern Standard
                                                                                                                                                > Time,
                                                                                                                                                > > > > nimmat4@y... writes:
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > just slight corrections Ray, if you don't mind :-)
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Ammonia is more toxic at high PH and nitrite toxicity does
                                                                                                                                                not
                                                                                                                                                > > have
                                                                                                                                                > > > any
                                                                                                                                                > > > > major toxicity level change due to PH change. This is because
                                                                                                                                                > > > ammonia is an
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Alkali itself and in low PH it tends to remain as Ammonium
                                                                                                                                                > ions
                                                                                                                                                > > > rather then
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Ammonia or organic ammonia complexes. Nitrites are basic
                                                                                                                                                salts
                                                                                                                                                > > and
                                                                                                                                                > > > their
                                                                                                                                                > > > > levels etc. do not change with a change in PH.
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Salt does help prevent the brown blood disease that is caused
                                                                                                                                                > by
                                                                                                                                                > > > Nitrite
                                                                                                                                                > > > > poisoning but in any case, salt does help fish even in
                                                                                                                                                ammonia
                                                                                                                                                > > > poisoning by
                                                                                                                                                > > > > trying to reduce the overall stress on it. (I know this is
                                                                                                                                                > very
                                                                                                                                                > > > much
                                                                                                                                                > > > > debatable but I think we have had too many debates on this.)
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                replying,
                                                                                                                                                > > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                > > > > .
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                > > > important to
                                                                                                                                                > > > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                > > modify
                                                                                                                                                > > > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                > we
                                                                                                                                                > > > Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > > > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                > > > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                                                                                                                                > > > subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                > > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                > > > .
                                                                                                                                                > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                > > important to
                                                                                                                                                > > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                > modify
                                                                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                we
                                                                                                                                                > > Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                > > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                                                                                                                                > > subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10588 From: harry perry Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!/Rachel O.T.
                                                                                                                                                Taken on too much? Or not a strong enough goal? A goal you can believe in. Not just fish keeping, your life. Go for it.
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Harry 

                                                                                                                                                Rachel <star9crystal@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                actually i was just asking cuz i didnt wanna look like an ass if i
                                                                                                                                                put the wrong kind in. i did put some in. hes in a rather small
                                                                                                                                                quaranteen because i have no room or anything else to put him in n i
                                                                                                                                                couldnt really mix the salt cuz i didnt wanan bother him. quite
                                                                                                                                                frankly up until yesterday i had to crawl over my bed to reach him.
                                                                                                                                                had to do some cleaning on the floor. im trying, i didnt disregard
                                                                                                                                                anything. i put some new water with a tad bit more salt today. hes
                                                                                                                                                movin around an stuff.

                                                                                                                                                sometimes i jus wonder if its worth it ya know. i do love my fish,
                                                                                                                                                but ive been very sick and its taken its toll on me. not to mention
                                                                                                                                                work objects and school objects. ick maybe ive taken on too much.


                                                                                                                                                Rae


                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                                                <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > By that question, I have to assume that you have not added any.  I
                                                                                                                                                > have outlined the procedure to treat your black moore in my reply
                                                                                                                                                to
                                                                                                                                                > your original post for help (my message #10563, April 22,
                                                                                                                                                10:12AM),
                                                                                                                                                > going by the probable cause of what's wrong with him. by what info
                                                                                                                                                > you relayed.  Looks like, up 'till now, you have chosen to
                                                                                                                                                disregard
                                                                                                                                                > my instructions for whatever reason.  Again, the salt to use is
                                                                                                                                                > either Kosher salt or aquarium salt, however, you must first do a
                                                                                                                                                > major water change and I guess by now, you'll need a fungus
                                                                                                                                                > medication; I hope its not too late for him.  I really don't know
                                                                                                                                                why
                                                                                                                                                > I bother going to the trouble of giving advise when it is totally
                                                                                                                                                > disregarded, and then the fish gets worse.  Please go back and re-
                                                                                                                                                > check that post if you want to save this fish.  I'll try to work
                                                                                                                                                with
                                                                                                                                                > you and noticed you put up a post minutes before this, to which
                                                                                                                                                I'll
                                                                                                                                                > answer your questions shortly. 
                                                                                                                                                Ray                                 
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                \                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > what kind fo salt anyway.
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                                                > > <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Sounds possibly like Fungus; have you added the salt as was
                                                                                                                                                > > > recommended? 
                                                                                                                                                > > Ray                                                   
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                \                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                > > 
                                                                                                                                                > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel"
                                                                                                                                                <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > well hes doing worse but hes still fighting. i can try that
                                                                                                                                                but
                                                                                                                                                > > i
                                                                                                                                                > > > > dont know if he will eat at all i can try though. hes not
                                                                                                                                                > moving
                                                                                                                                                > > > > well. new thing is his fins have white stuff on them.
                                                                                                                                                > > > > help?!!
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Rae
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                                                                > > <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Try and see if he eats crushed deskinned green peas. This
                                                                                                                                                is
                                                                                                                                                > a
                                                                                                                                                > > > > very common
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > problem in goldfish and they need to be fed vegetable food
                                                                                                                                                > > very
                                                                                                                                                > > > > often to
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > prevent bloat. I am sure he will live through this. Don't
                                                                                                                                                > > create
                                                                                                                                                > > > > any major
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > water movements as this will stress him further.
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > 
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > 
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > 
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >   _____ 
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Behalf Of Rachel
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Sent: 22 April 2005 01:57
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > 
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > my smaller black moore goldfish is floating on his side
                                                                                                                                                and
                                                                                                                                                > > his
                                                                                                                                                > > > > tail
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > looks kind of frayed but its got red in it. and its not
                                                                                                                                                > > supposed
                                                                                                                                                > > > > to.
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > my other fish looks fine but hes bigger. is there anything
                                                                                                                                                i
                                                                                                                                                > > can
                                                                                                                                                > > > > do to
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > help?????
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > i just quaranteened him.
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > hes still alive.
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Rachel
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                > replying,
                                                                                                                                                > > > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > .
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is
                                                                                                                                                not
                                                                                                                                                > > > > important to
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                message
                                                                                                                                                > > > modify
                                                                                                                                                > > > > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-

                                                                                                                                                > > we
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >   _____ 
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > *      To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >  
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > *      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                                                                                                                                > > > > subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                                                                                > > > > >  
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > *      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                > > > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.





                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10589 From: Rachel Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                im about to go to work but beforei do im gonna go run and get more
                                                                                                                                                salt, a test kit for ammonia n nitrates n some fungiside. i do have
                                                                                                                                                a ph testing kit and i have jugs of water i use for my fish that i
                                                                                                                                                treat so its a ph of 7. should i go lower for them?

                                                                                                                                                aiiigiht. thank you so much. i do hope the little guy lives, hes a
                                                                                                                                                sweetheart.

                                                                                                                                                R

                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                                                <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > First of all, for the benefit of all following this topic, certain
                                                                                                                                                > types of goldfish, such as the black moore, are more susceptible
                                                                                                                                                to
                                                                                                                                                > adverse conditions than others. The reason why your other
                                                                                                                                                goldfish
                                                                                                                                                > is doing so well in spite of the poor water. As you are finding
                                                                                                                                                out,
                                                                                                                                                > goldfish in general need more maintenance than most tropicals as
                                                                                                                                                they
                                                                                                                                                > produce much more waste. Your feeding of once a day is fine,
                                                                                                                                                > provided you feed no more than the fish will clean up in 5 minutes
                                                                                                                                                > (10 minutes at the most). Your water changes are not nearly as
                                                                                                                                                > frequently enough as is needed. Also, you do not say how much
                                                                                                                                                water
                                                                                                                                                > you change at those times. Preferably, a good portion (1/4 to 1/3
                                                                                                                                                > the tank) should be changed weekly with the old water being drawn
                                                                                                                                                > from the bottom, at the time you're vacuuming the gravel. I do
                                                                                                                                                hope
                                                                                                                                                > that you realize those ammonia-absorbing rocks you are using need
                                                                                                                                                to
                                                                                                                                                > be periodically recharged (in Kosher salt) overnight for them to
                                                                                                                                                > continue working. I kind of assumed you pulled water from the
                                                                                                                                                main
                                                                                                                                                > tank to set up the quarantine tank, which is the most logical and
                                                                                                                                                > proper procedure; however, with this, the water (main tank) needed
                                                                                                                                                a
                                                                                                                                                > large partial water change before doing anything, for the benefit
                                                                                                                                                of
                                                                                                                                                > both fish. You still haven't mentioned anything about water
                                                                                                                                                tests,
                                                                                                                                                > so I must assume you have no kits(?). Its a good idea to have
                                                                                                                                                these
                                                                                                                                                > kits on hand and to do these tests (ammonia, nitrite, etc.)
                                                                                                                                                > periodically to see the condition of your water before problems
                                                                                                                                                come
                                                                                                                                                > up. Knowing your pH would also come in handy which, because of
                                                                                                                                                your
                                                                                                                                                > fish's reaction to the apparently poor water, is probably in the
                                                                                                                                                mid
                                                                                                                                                > to high 7's (normally not a problem), but knowing this, coupled
                                                                                                                                                with
                                                                                                                                                > the fact that the fish's fins were red-streaked could have alerted
                                                                                                                                                > you to the fact that this condition was due to high nitrites or
                                                                                                                                                > ammonia as that's the reaction in alkaline water. Proceed as I
                                                                                                                                                > mentioned and you should see some improvement, although you may
                                                                                                                                                now
                                                                                                                                                > have to add a funguscide.
                                                                                                                                                Ray
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10590 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                Agreed, a 2 gallon tank may be good as a very temporary aquarium for
                                                                                                                                                one small goldfish, and judging by the size of two small fish in what
                                                                                                                                                looks like a large tank for these size fish, some hobbyists can be
                                                                                                                                                fooled into thinking that's a plently large enough permanent tank.
                                                                                                                                                Several things aren't being considered in this event. The never-
                                                                                                                                                ending maintenance in TRYING to keep up with the fish's waste and the
                                                                                                                                                very fact that the fish need room to grow. They won't stay 1 1/2"
                                                                                                                                                forever, unless stunted by keeping them in too small a container. I
                                                                                                                                                too caught that remark, but neglected to comment on it in my last
                                                                                                                                                post while concentrating on other matters. The ammonia absorbing
                                                                                                                                                rocks can only be Zeolite (Ammo-Chips, by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals
                                                                                                                                                and Ammo-Rocks by Tetra/Pond Care),which will absorb ammonia until
                                                                                                                                                saturated and then needs recharging in a salt solution which, by the
                                                                                                                                                way, with using Zeolite (Rachel, please note) do not yet add salt to
                                                                                                                                                the aquarium if these ammonia-absorbing rocks have not been recharged
                                                                                                                                                recently. The salt in the aquarium will cause the Ammo-Rocks to
                                                                                                                                                release its absorbed ammonia, killing tne fish. Good you mentioned
                                                                                                                                                those rocks. But definitely, a larger tank should be considered.
                                                                                                                                                Ray
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > 2 gallon goldfish setup?????
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Maybe what they say about petsmart is true. I will be surprised if
                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                > goldfish lives for a few months. You really need to understand what
                                                                                                                                                a
                                                                                                                                                > goldfish is and what are its needs. If you keep a goldfish in a 2
                                                                                                                                                gallon
                                                                                                                                                > tank, you need to change 50% of water every other day to keep it
                                                                                                                                                fresh. What
                                                                                                                                                > rocks absorb ammonia?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Ps: please reconsider the size of your tank if you want to keep
                                                                                                                                                your fish
                                                                                                                                                > alive.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > _____
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > Behalf Of Rachel
                                                                                                                                                > Sent: 23 April 2005 20:22
                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > i suppose i have been neglecting cleaning my goldfish setup. never
                                                                                                                                                > had any before but i am incr4dibly busy. damnit i feel bad. the
                                                                                                                                                > other goldfish is doing fine though. i feed them once a day. and
                                                                                                                                                > theres an undergravel filter. water changes are like maybe every 2
                                                                                                                                                > to 4 weeks. its a 2 gallon setup. i have rocks that absorb ammonia
                                                                                                                                                n
                                                                                                                                                > i use prime, so its never been a real problem. at all.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > i pulled water from the setup to quaranteen him in. hes trying to
                                                                                                                                                > swim a bit. i ended up totally cleaning out my setup, and my other
                                                                                                                                                > goldfish looks perky.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > my sicky goldfish's got white stuff on his fins. wht does it mean?!
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > oh and my friends betta ate the tail off my lil sucker fish. *sigh*
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Rae
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                                                > <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Nim, Knowing the answers to these questions would certainly go a
                                                                                                                                                > > long ways in getting to the bottom of things still up in the air,
                                                                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                                                                > > possibly understanding and/or confirming diagnoses already
                                                                                                                                                > suggested
                                                                                                                                                > > with information furnished. Also, knowing such things as the
                                                                                                                                                > present
                                                                                                                                                > > feeding routine, gravel vacuuming routine and water changing
                                                                                                                                                > routine
                                                                                                                                                > > would help.
                                                                                                                                                > Ray
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                                                                <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > > Well. As I said, I am not against water changes and yes, a
                                                                                                                                                large
                                                                                                                                                > > water
                                                                                                                                                > > > change could benefit the fish and I don't see any harm in a
                                                                                                                                                > single
                                                                                                                                                > > water
                                                                                                                                                > > > change either. I was just referring to the point that Water
                                                                                                                                                > change
                                                                                                                                                > > is the
                                                                                                                                                > > > most important step for a cure/problem.
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Most important however we need to know:
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Has the water been tested for Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Are any other fish exhibiting any odd behaviour?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > What was the goldfish fed in general?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > How was the quarantine tank setup? Cycled or not?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > How big is the quarantine tank?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Rachel, I think everyone will need answers to these questions
                                                                                                                                                > before
                                                                                                                                                > > > something more accurate solution can be given.
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Ray, Paul, Rob am I correct?
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > > > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                > > > Sent: 22 April 2005 19:30
                                                                                                                                                > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > While the goldfish (black moore) has been quarantined, I would
                                                                                                                                                > > assume
                                                                                                                                                > > > (admittedy maybe wrongly so), that set-up water for the
                                                                                                                                                > quarantine
                                                                                                                                                > > > tank was drawn from the larger tank, as would be the normal
                                                                                                                                                > thing
                                                                                                                                                > > > thing to do. No one would have (or should have) filled the
                                                                                                                                                > > > quarantine tank with fresh drawn water, although ifb that were
                                                                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > case I'm sure Rachel, or anyone, would realize that the tank
                                                                                                                                                > needs
                                                                                                                                                > > > no further "water changing". If by chance, the quarantine tank
                                                                                                                                                > has
                                                                                                                                                > > > been up and running for any amount of time and is established,
                                                                                                                                                a
                                                                                                                                                > > > water change on it in this case would be the best procedure
                                                                                                                                                > > anyway.
                                                                                                                                                > > > The reason behind this is to ensure that the ammonia and or
                                                                                                                                                > > nitrites
                                                                                                                                                > > > are at a minumum, since excess amounts of these toxins are one
                                                                                                                                                > of
                                                                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > main causes of this fish's condition if these chemicals are
                                                                                                                                                > > present.
                                                                                                                                                > > > Even though none of the other fish are showing these symtoms
                                                                                                                                                > yet,
                                                                                                                                                > > why
                                                                                                                                                > > > wait until they may? Always best to know you are starting with
                                                                                                                                                > > good
                                                                                                                                                > > > clean water and go from there if the problem persists. Test
                                                                                                                                                > > results
                                                                                                                                                > > > would be very helpful, but as this would be the first place to
                                                                                                                                                > > start,
                                                                                                                                                > > > and no values were given, I am going with all other factors
                                                                                                                                                > > > considered, having no other choice. The USUAL cause of red-
                                                                                                                                                > > streaked
                                                                                                                                                > > > fins is "brown-blood" caused by nitrite poisoning, so why play
                                                                                                                                                > > games
                                                                                                                                                > > > and wait (after which it may be too late), when treating for
                                                                                                                                                > this
                                                                                                                                                > > > can't hurt and may very well save the fish if done as a first
                                                                                                                                                > > > resort. If this doesn't help, there's nothing lost, and good
                                                                                                                                                > water
                                                                                                                                                > > > is never bad for fish.
                                                                                                                                                > > Ray
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                                                                > <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > > > I agree that a water change may help, but since the goldfish
                                                                                                                                                > has
                                                                                                                                                > > > already
                                                                                                                                                > > > > been quarantined and large water changes further may stress
                                                                                                                                                it
                                                                                                                                                > > too
                                                                                                                                                > > > much. I
                                                                                                                                                > > > > don't disagree that water change should be done but there
                                                                                                                                                > should
                                                                                                                                                > > > also be a
                                                                                                                                                > > > > reason associated with it. Not sure if Rachel has tested for
                                                                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > nitrogen
                                                                                                                                                > > > > components (NH3, No2, No3) and all would really depend on
                                                                                                                                                > that.
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Fancy goldfish are very much susceptible to this kind of
                                                                                                                                                > behavior
                                                                                                                                                > > > even in
                                                                                                                                                > > > > near perfect water conditions (I mean zero Nitrites, ammonia
                                                                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                                                                > > low
                                                                                                                                                > > > > nitrates with other components of the water fairly stable)
                                                                                                                                                > just
                                                                                                                                                > > > because of
                                                                                                                                                > > > > their diet. The torn and streaked fancy tail and fins could
                                                                                                                                                > just
                                                                                                                                                > > be
                                                                                                                                                > > > an
                                                                                                                                                > > > > indication of too much physical stress that fish is suffering
                                                                                                                                                > > > trying to stay
                                                                                                                                                > > > > afloat or balanced. I have seen many goldfish behave this way
                                                                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                                                                > > > if they
                                                                                                                                                > > > > are really let on their own without further stress and no
                                                                                                                                                > water
                                                                                                                                                > > > movement,
                                                                                                                                                > > > > they remedy themselves in a couple of days. Then if fed with
                                                                                                                                                > > green
                                                                                                                                                > > > food,
                                                                                                                                                > > > > they fully recover in a couple of weeks.
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Personally, I don't believe in water changes when they are
                                                                                                                                                not
                                                                                                                                                > > > needed. If
                                                                                                                                                > > > > all fish are showing signs of distress, then yes, I could
                                                                                                                                                > > consider
                                                                                                                                                > > > a large
                                                                                                                                                > > > > water change but if others are fine, I see no real reason.
                                                                                                                                                > Large
                                                                                                                                                > > > water
                                                                                                                                                > > > > changes do have a stressful effect which could make matters
                                                                                                                                                > worse.
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Behalf Of FortWayneFish@a...
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Sent: 22 April 2005 17:39
                                                                                                                                                > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: need help w/ black moore
                                                                                                                                                > > goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Nim,
                                                                                                                                                > > > > You forgot to mention the best cure for the problem...
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Would you also agree with Ray to do Large frequent
                                                                                                                                                > waterchanges?
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > My opinion is waterchanges cure almost anything. I usually
                                                                                                                                                do
                                                                                                                                                > a
                                                                                                                                                > > > waterchange
                                                                                                                                                > > > > and gravel vaccumm when ever I see something going wrong.
                                                                                                                                                > Since
                                                                                                                                                > > we
                                                                                                                                                > > > are
                                                                                                                                                > > > > talking a Goldfish a 80% waterchange does not seem
                                                                                                                                                > unreasonable
                                                                                                                                                > > to
                                                                                                                                                > > > me. I'd
                                                                                                                                                > > > > do 75-80% waterchange with a good vaccumming of the
                                                                                                                                                > substrate.
                                                                                                                                                > > Of
                                                                                                                                                > > > course
                                                                                                                                                > > > > fill with unchlorinated water...
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > rob
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > In a message dated 4/22/2005 9:29:31 AM US Eastern Standard
                                                                                                                                                > Time,
                                                                                                                                                > > > > nimmat4@y... writes:
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > just slight corrections Ray, if you don't mind :-)
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Ammonia is more toxic at high PH and nitrite toxicity does
                                                                                                                                                not
                                                                                                                                                > > have
                                                                                                                                                > > > any
                                                                                                                                                > > > > major toxicity level change due to PH change. This is because
                                                                                                                                                > > > ammonia is an
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Alkali itself and in low PH it tends to remain as Ammonium
                                                                                                                                                > ions
                                                                                                                                                > > > rather then
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Ammonia or organic ammonia complexes. Nitrites are basic
                                                                                                                                                salts
                                                                                                                                                > > and
                                                                                                                                                > > > their
                                                                                                                                                > > > > levels etc. do not change with a change in PH.
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Salt does help prevent the brown blood disease that is caused
                                                                                                                                                > by
                                                                                                                                                > > > Nitrite
                                                                                                                                                > > > > poisoning but in any case, salt does help fish even in
                                                                                                                                                ammonia
                                                                                                                                                > > > poisoning by
                                                                                                                                                > > > > trying to reduce the overall stress on it. (I know this is
                                                                                                                                                > very
                                                                                                                                                > > > much
                                                                                                                                                > > > > debatable but I think we have had too many debates on this.)
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                replying,
                                                                                                                                                > > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                > > > > .
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                > > > important to
                                                                                                                                                > > > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                > > modify
                                                                                                                                                > > > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                > we
                                                                                                                                                > > > Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > > > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                > > > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                                                                                                                                > > > subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
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                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                > > > .
                                                                                                                                                > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                > > important to
                                                                                                                                                > > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                > modify
                                                                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                                                                > > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                we
                                                                                                                                                > > Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > _____
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                                                                                                > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                                                                                                                                > > subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                important to
                                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > _____
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10591 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                Rachel, Hang it there and don't give up hope. I don't know if this
                                                                                                                                                reaches you before you leave for work, but be careful with those
                                                                                                                                                ammonia-absorbing rocks. Apparently you weren't told (typical of Pet
                                                                                                                                                Smart, etc.) that (1) the Ammo-Rocks need recharging in salt water,
                                                                                                                                                (2) salt water makes the Ammo-Rocks release its absorbed ammonia
                                                                                                                                                load, (3) if you have working Ammo-Rocks in your aquarium (which
                                                                                                                                                have absorbed ammonia) the addition of salt to the aquarium will act
                                                                                                                                                as if you are recharging the Ammo-Rocks, making them release any
                                                                                                                                                absorbed ammonia back into the aquarium. As for a
                                                                                                                                                funguscide, "Fungus Eliminator" by Jungle Laboratories is a good wide
                                                                                                                                                spectrum medication, good for a wide range of bacteria and fungal
                                                                                                                                                infections (good also for the red-streaked fins). Do not lower the
                                                                                                                                                pH; this will not help in the treatment (unless extremely high, like
                                                                                                                                                8.8 - 9.0), but please let us know what it is. Ray
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > im about to go to work but beforei do im gonna go run and get more
                                                                                                                                                > salt, a test kit for ammonia n nitrates n some fungiside. i do have
                                                                                                                                                > a ph testing kit and i have jugs of water i use for my fish that i
                                                                                                                                                > treat so its a ph of 7. should i go lower for them?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > aiiigiht. thank you so much. i do hope the little guy lives, hes a
                                                                                                                                                > sweetheart.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > R
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                                                > <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > First of all, for the benefit of all following this topic,
                                                                                                                                                certain
                                                                                                                                                > > types of goldfish, such as the black moore, are more susceptible
                                                                                                                                                > to
                                                                                                                                                > > adverse conditions than others. The reason why your other
                                                                                                                                                > goldfish
                                                                                                                                                > > is doing so well in spite of the poor water. As you are finding
                                                                                                                                                > out,
                                                                                                                                                > > goldfish in general need more maintenance than most tropicals as
                                                                                                                                                > they
                                                                                                                                                > > produce much more waste. Your feeding of once a day is fine,
                                                                                                                                                > > provided you feed no more than the fish will clean up in 5
                                                                                                                                                minutes
                                                                                                                                                > > (10 minutes at the most). Your water changes are not nearly as
                                                                                                                                                > > frequently enough as is needed. Also, you do not say how much
                                                                                                                                                > water
                                                                                                                                                > > you change at those times. Preferably, a good portion (1/4 to
                                                                                                                                                1/3
                                                                                                                                                > > the tank) should be changed weekly with the old water being drawn
                                                                                                                                                > > from the bottom, at the time you're vacuuming the gravel. I do
                                                                                                                                                > hope
                                                                                                                                                > > that you realize those ammonia-absorbing rocks you are using need
                                                                                                                                                > to
                                                                                                                                                > > be periodically recharged (in Kosher salt) overnight for them to
                                                                                                                                                > > continue working. I kind of assumed you pulled water from the
                                                                                                                                                > main
                                                                                                                                                > > tank to set up the quarantine tank, which is the most logical and
                                                                                                                                                > > proper procedure; however, with this, the water (main tank)
                                                                                                                                                needed
                                                                                                                                                > a
                                                                                                                                                > > large partial water change before doing anything, for the benefit
                                                                                                                                                > of
                                                                                                                                                > > both fish. You still haven't mentioned anything about water
                                                                                                                                                > tests,
                                                                                                                                                > > so I must assume you have no kits(?). Its a good idea to have
                                                                                                                                                > these
                                                                                                                                                > > kits on hand and to do these tests (ammonia, nitrite, etc.)
                                                                                                                                                > > periodically to see the condition of your water before problems
                                                                                                                                                > come
                                                                                                                                                > > up. Knowing your pH would also come in handy which, because of
                                                                                                                                                > your
                                                                                                                                                > > fish's reaction to the apparently poor water, is probably in the
                                                                                                                                                > mid
                                                                                                                                                > > to high 7's (normally not a problem), but knowing this, coupled
                                                                                                                                                > with
                                                                                                                                                > > the fact that the fish's fins were red-streaked could have
                                                                                                                                                alerted
                                                                                                                                                > > you to the fact that this condition was due to high nitrites or
                                                                                                                                                > > ammonia as that's the reaction in alkaline water. Proceed as I
                                                                                                                                                > > mentioned and you should see some improvement, although you may
                                                                                                                                                > now
                                                                                                                                                > > have to add a funguscide.
                                                                                                                                                > Ray
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10592 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: need help w/ black moore goldfish!!!
                                                                                                                                                Just noticed, While a test kit for Nitrates is a good thing to have,
                                                                                                                                                more importantly, you'll need a test kit for NITRITES. There is a
                                                                                                                                                big difference. Ray
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > im about to go to work but beforei do im gonna go run and get more
                                                                                                                                                > salt, a test kit for ammonia n nitrates n some fungiside. i do have
                                                                                                                                                > a ph testing kit and i have jugs of water i use for my fish that i
                                                                                                                                                > treat so its a ph of 7. should i go lower for them?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > aiiigiht. thank you so much. i do hope the little guy lives, hes a
                                                                                                                                                > sweetheart.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > R
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                                                > <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > First of all, for the benefit of all following this topic,
                                                                                                                                                certain
                                                                                                                                                > > types of goldfish, such as the black moore, are more susceptible
                                                                                                                                                > to
                                                                                                                                                > > adverse conditions than others. The reason why your other
                                                                                                                                                > goldfish
                                                                                                                                                > > is doing so well in spite of the poor water. As you are finding
                                                                                                                                                > out,
                                                                                                                                                > > goldfish in general need more maintenance than most tropicals as
                                                                                                                                                > they
                                                                                                                                                > > produce much more waste. Your feeding of once a day is fine,
                                                                                                                                                > > provided you feed no more than the fish will clean up in 5
                                                                                                                                                minutes
                                                                                                                                                > > (10 minutes at the most). Your water changes are not nearly as
                                                                                                                                                > > frequently enough as is needed. Also, you do not say how much
                                                                                                                                                > water
                                                                                                                                                > > you change at those times. Preferably, a good portion (1/4 to
                                                                                                                                                1/3
                                                                                                                                                > > the tank) should be changed weekly with the old water being drawn
                                                                                                                                                > > from the bottom, at the time you're vacuuming the gravel. I do
                                                                                                                                                > hope
                                                                                                                                                > > that you realize those ammonia-absorbing rocks you are using need
                                                                                                                                                > to
                                                                                                                                                > > be periodically recharged (in Kosher salt) overnight for them to
                                                                                                                                                > > continue working. I kind of assumed you pulled water from the
                                                                                                                                                > main
                                                                                                                                                > > tank to set up the quarantine tank, which is the most logical and
                                                                                                                                                > > proper procedure; however, with this, the water (main tank)
                                                                                                                                                needed
                                                                                                                                                > a
                                                                                                                                                > > large partial water change before doing anything, for the benefit
                                                                                                                                                > of
                                                                                                                                                > > both fish. You still haven't mentioned anything about water
                                                                                                                                                > tests,
                                                                                                                                                > > so I must assume you have no kits(?). Its a good idea to have
                                                                                                                                                > these
                                                                                                                                                > > kits on hand and to do these tests (ammonia, nitrite, etc.)
                                                                                                                                                > > periodically to see the condition of your water before problems
                                                                                                                                                > come
                                                                                                                                                > > up. Knowing your pH would also come in handy which, because of
                                                                                                                                                > your
                                                                                                                                                > > fish's reaction to the apparently poor water, is probably in the
                                                                                                                                                > mid
                                                                                                                                                > > to high 7's (normally not a problem), but knowing this, coupled
                                                                                                                                                > with
                                                                                                                                                > > the fact that the fish's fins were red-streaked could have
                                                                                                                                                alerted
                                                                                                                                                > > you to the fact that this condition was due to high nitrites or
                                                                                                                                                > > ammonia as that's the reaction in alkaline water. Proceed as I
                                                                                                                                                > > mentioned and you should see some improvement, although you may
                                                                                                                                                > now
                                                                                                                                                > > have to add a funguscide.
                                                                                                                                                > Ray
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10593 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: update about my dropsy fish
                                                                                                                                                well the blue gourami finally died 13 days after treatment.. I learned a lot though so I guess that is good.. I had put a killi fish and catfish in with it to treat them if you remember both of them are still alive and looking much better than pretreatment... so I transitioned them back into their tank this am... their mates seem so happy I just hope they make it.. the killi is acting however so freaking odd... I added 2 more rubber lipped plecos to try and even some of the algae away.. well see if it works.. so everything is good in their world however I do miss my dear gourami.. Shannon
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10594 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: update about my dropsy fish
                                                                                                                                                Shannon, Sorry to hear about your gourami. As no doubt you've learned
                                                                                                                                                through replies to your request for help, Dropsey can have many
                                                                                                                                                different causes, some of which may already be too late for any
                                                                                                                                                treatment when the symptoms are seen. Looks like he put up a good
                                                                                                                                                fight, and we all tried to advise everything we could think of, but
                                                                                                                                                without knowing exactly what kind of micro-organism was infecting him
                                                                                                                                                it is difficult to know precisely how to proceed. Its very probable
                                                                                                                                                that it may have been too late (as many cases are) when you first saw
                                                                                                                                                him like that, but we didn't give up hope on him. Just don't blame
                                                                                                                                                yourself -- there's no way of knowing whether he would have got this
                                                                                                                                                thing or not, regardless of how you were keeping them. Glad to hear
                                                                                                                                                the other two are doing better, although that killiefish does sound
                                                                                                                                                strange. You don't say exactly how he's acting - there still might be
                                                                                                                                                something oddly wrong with him that can't quite be pinned down. Unless
                                                                                                                                                he gets better, be prepared for him not making it, and if he does make
                                                                                                                                                it so much the better. Sometimes these things are just beyond us. Ray
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > well the blue gourami finally died 13 days after treatment.. I
                                                                                                                                                learned a lot
                                                                                                                                                > though so I guess that is good.. I had put a killi fish and catfish
                                                                                                                                                in with
                                                                                                                                                > it to treat them if you remember both of them are still alive and
                                                                                                                                                looking much
                                                                                                                                                > better than pretreatment... so I transitioned them back into their
                                                                                                                                                tank this
                                                                                                                                                > am... their mates seem so happy I just hope they make it.. the killi
                                                                                                                                                is
                                                                                                                                                > acting however so freaking odd... I added 2 more rubber lipped
                                                                                                                                                plecos to try and
                                                                                                                                                > even some of the algae away.. well see if it works.. so everything
                                                                                                                                                is good in
                                                                                                                                                > their world however I do miss my dear gourami.. Shannon
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10596 From: Marius E. Gaybba Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Organic Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                Hi Guys

                                                                                                                                                We can assist with most of Your problems.
                                                                                                                                                Check out attached files in the File section, and also see Our Photos.

                                                                                                                                                http://www.organicwatersolutions.20fr.com

                                                                                                                                                Thank You
                                                                                                                                                Marius
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10597 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: update about my dropsy fish
                                                                                                                                                well as for the killi fish he keeps his back down towards the ground like swimming half paralyzed lol.. but he is so happy to be back right now and the bumps that he had on his back seem to be gone.. a little discolored but gone... and the Cory catfish is doing good the mouth looks better but not nears as good as I thought would be after 12 days in med's... oh well... but thanks for your kind words..... it  was sad to see him go but he did put up a big fight... Shannon

                                                                                                                                                Shannon,  Sorry to hear about your gourami.  As no doubt you've learned
                                                                                                                                                through replies to your request for help, Dropsey can have many
                                                                                                                                                different causes, some of which may already be too late for any
                                                                                                                                                treatment when the symptoms are seen.  Looks like he put up a good
                                                                                                                                                fight, and we all tried to advise everything we could think of, but
                                                                                                                                                without knowing exactly what kind of micro-organism was infecting him
                                                                                                                                                it is difficult to know precisely how to proceed.  Its very probable
                                                                                                                                                that it may have been too late (as many cases are) when you first saw
                                                                                                                                                him like that, but we didn't give up hope on him.  Just don't blame
                                                                                                                                                yourself -- there's no way of knowing whether he would have got this
                                                                                                                                                thing or not, regardless of how you were keeping them.  Glad to hear
                                                                                                                                                the other two are doing better, although that killiefish does sound
                                                                                                                                                strange.  You don't say exactly how he's acting - there still might be
                                                                                                                                                something oddly wrong with him that can't quite be pinned down.  Unless
                                                                                                                                                he gets better, be prepared for him not making it, and if he does make
                                                                                                                                                it so much the better. Sometimes these things are just beyond us. Ray  
                                                                                                                                                \                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10598 From: harry perry Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums/To Marius and all members.
                                                                                                                                                This group is not, I repeat, not your marketplace. The next time you go on moderated status,
                                                                                                                                                Try it a third time and I will delete you from the group.
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Harry
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                A moderator
                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                "Marius E. Gaybba" <sawatergeni@...> wrote:


                                                                                                                                                Hi Guys

                                                                                                                                                I can assist with most Your Problems.
                                                                                                                                                Have a look at Our Files attached in the File section or You can visit
                                                                                                                                                http://www.organicwatersolutions.20fr.com.I also have some photos
                                                                                                                                                loaded.

                                                                                                                                                Thank You
                                                                                                                                                Marius





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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10599 From: harry perry Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: update about my dropsy fish/To Shannon
                                                                                                                                                I raise gouramis also, you did everything you could do. Don't blame yourself. Dropsey is hard to treat. As you know by now, when we see the signs the liver is affected, most times beyond repair. Glad to hear everyone else is o.k.
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Harry

                                                                                                                                                agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                well the blue gourami finally died 13 days after treatment.. I learned a lot though so I guess that is good.. I had put a killi fish and catfish in with it to treat them if you remember both of them are still alive and looking much better than pretreatment... so I transitioned them back into their tank this am... their mates seem so happy I just hope they make it.. the killi is acting however so freaking odd... I added 2 more rubber lipped plecos to try and even some of the algae away.. well see if it works.. so everything is good in their world however I do miss my dear gourami.. Shannon


                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10600 From: Evita Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: update about my dropsy fish
                                                                                                                                                I am so soory about your loss.  Evita

                                                                                                                                                agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                well the blue gourami finally died 13 days after treatment.. I learned a lot though so I guess that is good.. I had put a killi fish and catfish in with it to treat them if you remember both of them are still alive and looking much better than pretreatment... so I transitioned them back into their tank this am... their mates seem so happy I just hope they make it.. the killi is acting however so freaking odd... I added 2 more rubber lipped plecos to try and even some of the algae away.. well see if it works.. so everything is good in their world however I do miss my dear gourami.. Shannon


                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10601 From: Evita Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: update about my dropsy fish
                                                                                                                                                I am also sorry I can't spell before the sun comes up!  :) Evita

                                                                                                                                                Evita <evitabug@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                I am so soory about your loss.  Evita


                                                                                                                                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10602 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: tank cycling
                                                                                                                                                My son has a 10 gallon tank.  To start it, 3 1/2 weeks ago, I used 5 gallons of cycled water and a filter bag full of cycled tank gravel.  He now has 3 zebra danios, 3 black skirt tetras, 2 cories, a frog and a snail.  All fish and others are doing well and I've been monitoring the ammonia and nitrite.  They remain at 0.  Today I tested ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.  While the ammonia and nitrite remain at 0, the nitrate tested at 10.  Would you consider this tank cycled?  Should I stay on the lookout for an ammonia or nitrite spike?  Should I begin small water changes?  I change my other tanks weekly.
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Thanks for your advice.  I've never cycled a tank with water and gravel from cycled tanks, so I didn't know how long the cycle would take.
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Angela
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10603 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: update about my dropsy fish/To Shannon
                                                                                                                                                thanks... maybe later on ill get a new one.. but he will be a different color... Shannon
                                                                                                                                                I raise gouramis also, you did everything you could do. Don't blame yourself. Dropsey is hard to treat. As you know by now, when we see the signs the liver is affected, most times beyond repair. Glad to hear everyone else is o.k.
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Harry
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10604 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: update about my dropsy fish
                                                                                                                                                its ok.. lol thanks for your support Shannon
                                                                                                                                                am also sorry I can't spell before the sun comes up!  :) Evita
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10605 From: paul helms Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: tank cycling
                                                                                                                                                there is nothing wrong with the water quality, in fact
                                                                                                                                                it is perfect....therefore, water changes are the
                                                                                                                                                opposite of what you want to be doing. leave the tank
                                                                                                                                                alone, but continue to monitor it twice a week for the
                                                                                                                                                next 3 weeks or so.
                                                                                                                                                paul
                                                                                                                                                --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > My son has a 10 gallon tank. To start it, 3 1/2
                                                                                                                                                > weeks ago, I used 5 gallons of cycled water and a
                                                                                                                                                > filter bag full of cycled tank gravel. He now has 3
                                                                                                                                                > zebra danios, 3 black skirt tetras, 2 cories, a frog
                                                                                                                                                > and a snail. All fish and others are doing well and
                                                                                                                                                > I've been monitoring the ammonia and nitrite. They
                                                                                                                                                > remain at 0. Today I tested ammonia, nitrite and
                                                                                                                                                > nitrate. While the ammonia and nitrite remain at 0,
                                                                                                                                                > the nitrate tested at 10. Would you consider this
                                                                                                                                                > tank cycled? Should I stay on the lookout for an
                                                                                                                                                > ammonia or nitrite spike? Should I begin small
                                                                                                                                                > water changes? I change my other tanks weekly.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Thanks for your advice. I've never cycled a tank
                                                                                                                                                > with water and gravel from cycled tanks, so I didn't
                                                                                                                                                > know how long the cycle would take.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Angela

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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10606 From: Angela Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Cloudy Water
                                                                                                                                                I just noticed one of my tanks has cloudy water. It's a 10 gallon
                                                                                                                                                with 3 zebra danios, 3 black skirt tetras, 2 cories, a snail and
                                                                                                                                                frog. The test results are ammonia and nitrite 0 and nitrate is 10.
                                                                                                                                                What's causing it and what should I do? I do have a bunch of
                                                                                                                                                anacharis in there.

                                                                                                                                                Angela
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10607 From: Rachel Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: tetratest
                                                                                                                                                i also wanted to mention that i bought a tetratest for NH3/NH4+ total
                                                                                                                                                ammonia. and the waters fine now. now. yeah i know. didnt add the
                                                                                                                                                salt. thank goodness. oh and my lil black moore started swimmin round
                                                                                                                                                a bit. i think hes sleepy now.
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10608 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Ailing? Or Lazy?
                                                                                                                                                My single Angelfish female is acting oddly, though my daughter assures
                                                                                                                                                me she's been acting this way for a couple of months. She lays on the
                                                                                                                                                bottom of the tank, doing a good dead fish imitation, till she is
                                                                                                                                                touched, then she swims away. There are no nipped fins or white
                                                                                                                                                patches or curled scales or pop-eye symptoms. She gets live guppy fry
                                                                                                                                                from time to time, daphnia, brine shrimp, tubifex worms and
                                                                                                                                                bloodworms. She has plenty of live plants and algae to nibble on, as
                                                                                                                                                well as the occasional pea I drop into the tank. The tank seems to be
                                                                                                                                                fine on nitrogen, though maybe a touch on the cool side. Anybody know
                                                                                                                                                what's going on? Is it normal for the fish to sleep on the bottom of
                                                                                                                                                the tank? Seems to have a little trouble swimming at the surface.
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10609 From: Rachel Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: carbon filter
                                                                                                                                                um. i put a new filter in my undergravel filter thingie. and i
                                                                                                                                                rinsed it out an shook it like my power filter. so whatever. theyre
                                                                                                                                                both carbon filters. ummm. but then i put it in and i noticed the
                                                                                                                                                water gettn darker n when i came back t his mornin it was wayyyyyy
                                                                                                                                                dark so i cleaned it out put new water in it rinsed off the
                                                                                                                                                cartridge again and blah blah blah. um. its getting dark again. WHAT
                                                                                                                                                SHOULD I DO?

                                                                                                                                                oh and thanks for remarking about the rocks. thad have been a bad
                                                                                                                                                thing.

                                                                                                                                                what i have to work with right now is about 6 feet by 9 feet. thats
                                                                                                                                                what room i have in my room. i have a strip of floor nxt to my bed
                                                                                                                                                thats 5 feet long and a foot and a half wide. my beds partially
                                                                                                                                                under my desk.
                                                                                                                                                i do have a roomate. so my whole room, where i live and eat and
                                                                                                                                                breathe and sleep, is about 18 by 10 feet not counting the big big
                                                                                                                                                closet juttin out of the wall.

                                                                                                                                                when i get home i do count on getting a 10 gallon tank. maybe ill
                                                                                                                                                find an automatic feeder so i can leave him there.

                                                                                                                                                um. my sick black moore goldfish is looking... well... theres less
                                                                                                                                                white nasty on his fins. hes not as rapid in his gill movement and i
                                                                                                                                                dunno if thats good or bad.

                                                                                                                                                but yeah this cartridge thing is bothering me. im watching my water
                                                                                                                                                slowly turn grayish.
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10610 From: Rachel Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: carbon filter
                                                                                                                                                i dunt know whats wrong with my computer but i posted a msg but it
                                                                                                                                                aint showin up so im a repeat the gist of it. my new filter
                                                                                                                                                (undergravel) is makin my water all gray. i cleaned it out already but
                                                                                                                                                i jus dont know hwat to do cuz there wasnt any instructions. so
                                                                                                                                                someone plz help me!
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10611 From: paul helms Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Cloudy Water
                                                                                                                                                probably bacterial bloom give it a few days
                                                                                                                                                --- Angela <angelasjenkins@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > I just noticed one of my tanks has cloudy water.
                                                                                                                                                > It's a 10 gallon
                                                                                                                                                > with 3 zebra danios, 3 black skirt tetras, 2 cories,
                                                                                                                                                > a snail and
                                                                                                                                                > frog. The test results are ammonia and nitrite 0
                                                                                                                                                > and nitrate is 10.
                                                                                                                                                > What's causing it and what should I do? I do have a
                                                                                                                                                > bunch of
                                                                                                                                                > anacharis in there.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Angela
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >

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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10612 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: carbon filter
                                                                                                                                                    I would take the carbon to the trash can and throw it in.  Despite the emotional attachment a lot of people have to it, I don't think it makes any sense to waste time using the junk.  Keep a little of it in a plastic bag for emergency use if chemicals get in the water, and forget it the rest of the time.  After 3 - 7 days, it become inert (I think that is the word) and is useless, so emergency use is all it is really good for.  The darkness will go away, so don't worry too much about it.
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                um. i put a new filter in my undergravel filter thingie. and i
                                                                                                                                                rinsed it out an shook it like my power filter. so whatever. theyre
                                                                                                                                                both carbon filters. ummm. but then i put it in and i noticed the
                                                                                                                                                water gettn darker n when i came back t his mornin it was wayyyyyy
                                                                                                                                                dark so i cleaned it out put new water in it rinsed off the
                                                                                                                                                cartridge again and blah blah blah. um. its getting dark again. WHAT
                                                                                                                                                SHOULD I DO?
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10613 From: paul helms Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: carbon filter
                                                                                                                                                activated carbon does not become inert for about 30
                                                                                                                                                days in the average filter. it has to do with volume
                                                                                                                                                of water passing through it. it also keeps fish odors
                                                                                                                                                outof the water, and does a bit to clarify the water
                                                                                                                                                as well.
                                                                                                                                                --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                                <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > I would take the carbon to the trash can and
                                                                                                                                                > throw it in. Despite the
                                                                                                                                                > emotional attachment a lot of people have to it, I
                                                                                                                                                > don't think it makes any
                                                                                                                                                > sense to waste time using the junk. Keep a little
                                                                                                                                                > of it in a plastic bag
                                                                                                                                                > for emergency use if chemicals get in the water, and
                                                                                                                                                > forget it the rest of
                                                                                                                                                > the time. After 3 - 7 days, it become inert (I
                                                                                                                                                > think that is the word) and
                                                                                                                                                > is useless, so emergency use is all it is really
                                                                                                                                                > good for. The darkness
                                                                                                                                                > will go away, so don't worry too much about it.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                > um. i put a new filter in my undergravel filter
                                                                                                                                                > thingie. and i
                                                                                                                                                > rinsed it out an shook it like my power filter. so
                                                                                                                                                > whatever. theyre
                                                                                                                                                > both carbon filters. ummm. but then i put it in and
                                                                                                                                                > i noticed the
                                                                                                                                                > water gettn darker n when i came back t his mornin
                                                                                                                                                > it was wayyyyyy
                                                                                                                                                > dark so i cleaned it out put new water in it rinsed
                                                                                                                                                > off the
                                                                                                                                                > cartridge again and blah blah blah. um. its getting
                                                                                                                                                > dark again. WHAT
                                                                                                                                                > SHOULD I DO?

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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10614 From: paul helms Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: carbon filter
                                                                                                                                                with a new ugf you are probably sucking the mulm out
                                                                                                                                                of the gravel discoloring the water...would you mind
                                                                                                                                                editing your posts a bit?
                                                                                                                                                --- Rachel <star9crystal@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > um. i put a new filter in my undergravel filter
                                                                                                                                                > thingie. and i
                                                                                                                                                > rinsed it out an shook it like my power filter. so
                                                                                                                                                > whatever. theyre
                                                                                                                                                > both carbon filters. ummm. but then i put it in and
                                                                                                                                                > i noticed the
                                                                                                                                                > water gettn darker n when i came back t his mornin
                                                                                                                                                > it was wayyyyyy
                                                                                                                                                > dark so i cleaned it out put new water in it rinsed
                                                                                                                                                > off the
                                                                                                                                                > cartridge again and blah blah blah. um. its getting
                                                                                                                                                > dark again. WHAT
                                                                                                                                                > SHOULD I DO?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > oh and thanks for remarking about the rocks. thad
                                                                                                                                                > have been a bad
                                                                                                                                                > thing.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > what i have to work with right now is about 6 feet
                                                                                                                                                > by 9 feet. thats
                                                                                                                                                > what room i have in my room. i have a strip of floor
                                                                                                                                                > nxt to my bed
                                                                                                                                                > thats 5 feet long and a foot and a half wide. my
                                                                                                                                                > beds partially
                                                                                                                                                > under my desk.
                                                                                                                                                > i do have a roomate. so my whole room, where i live
                                                                                                                                                > and eat and
                                                                                                                                                > breathe and sleep, is about 18 by 10 feet not
                                                                                                                                                > counting the big big
                                                                                                                                                > closet juttin out of the wall.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > when i get home i do count on getting a 10 gallon
                                                                                                                                                > tank. maybe ill
                                                                                                                                                > find an automatic feeder so i can leave him there.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > um. my sick black moore goldfish is looking...
                                                                                                                                                > well... theres less
                                                                                                                                                > white nasty on his fins. hes not as rapid in his
                                                                                                                                                > gill movement and i
                                                                                                                                                > dunno if thats good or bad.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > but yeah this cartridge thing is bothering me. im
                                                                                                                                                > watching my water
                                                                                                                                                > slowly turn grayish.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >

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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10615 From: paul helms Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: carbon filter
                                                                                                                                                an undergravel filter will not make water gray. the
                                                                                                                                                plate goes under the gravel, the ubes come up through
                                                                                                                                                it, and an airline goes down the tube. there is not
                                                                                                                                                enough carbon there to trun your water gray
                                                                                                                                                --- Rachel <star9crystal@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > i dunt know whats wrong with my computer but i
                                                                                                                                                > posted a msg but it
                                                                                                                                                > aint showin up so im a repeat the gist of it. my new
                                                                                                                                                > filter
                                                                                                                                                > (undergravel) is makin my water all gray. i cleaned
                                                                                                                                                > it out already but
                                                                                                                                                > i jus dont know hwat to do cuz there wasnt any
                                                                                                                                                > instructions. so
                                                                                                                                                > someone plz help me!
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >

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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10616 From: Rachel Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: carbon filter
                                                                                                                                                the cartridge to put on top it is a lot bigger than my old one. and
                                                                                                                                                it indeed has a lot of carbon in it. ilke i can see it. and i know
                                                                                                                                                thats whats happening because ive changed the water since the first
                                                                                                                                                time and its happened all over again. but i dont know where to find
                                                                                                                                                smaller cartridges.

                                                                                                                                                will the smokey gray color go away?
                                                                                                                                                the water tested fine. and it looks pretty clear when i pull it out
                                                                                                                                                but all of it together makes the color more obvious.



                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...>
                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > an undergravel filter will not make water gray. the
                                                                                                                                                > plate goes under the gravel, the ubes come up through
                                                                                                                                                > it, and an airline goes down the tube. there is not
                                                                                                                                                > enough carbon there to trun your water gray
                                                                                                                                                > --- Rachel <star9crystal@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > i dunt know whats wrong with my computer but i
                                                                                                                                                > > posted a msg but it
                                                                                                                                                > > aint showin up so im a repeat the gist of it. my new
                                                                                                                                                > > filter
                                                                                                                                                > > (undergravel) is makin my water all gray. i cleaned
                                                                                                                                                > > it out already but
                                                                                                                                                > > i jus dont know hwat to do cuz there wasnt any
                                                                                                                                                > > instructions. so
                                                                                                                                                > > someone plz help me!
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10617 From: Jason Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: fish catastrophe
                                                                                                                                                Yup,
                                                                                                                                                I don't recall the numbers. But they were all fine. I'm puzzled.

                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > did you test ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? what were
                                                                                                                                                > they?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > --- Jason <thewahlrus@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Hey, I've got a 40 gallon that was stocked with
                                                                                                                                                > > mollies, swordtails,
                                                                                                                                                > > and guppies with a big pleco and a lot of plants. I
                                                                                                                                                > > recently had a
                                                                                                                                                > > catastrophe. Everything except the pleco died
                                                                                                                                                > > within 3 days. All the
                                                                                                                                                > > fish (the swords and guppies were all bred and
                                                                                                                                                > > raised by me) and all
                                                                                                                                                > > the plants. The only thing that survived was the
                                                                                                                                                > > pleco, I guess it's
                                                                                                                                                > > one tough bastard. Anyone have any idea why? i'm
                                                                                                                                                > > at a total loss. I
                                                                                                                                                > > change 5 gallons a week, and I didn't do anything
                                                                                                                                                > > different, they just
                                                                                                                                                > > all died on my. The pleco did have pop eye for a
                                                                                                                                                > > few days after, but
                                                                                                                                                > > no other fish showed symptoms.
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10618 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: carbon filter
                                                                                                                                                I am sure it is the carbon.  The point I was trying to make is that it isn't really needed, and the ugf will work find without it (maybe better if it slows the flow of water).
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                will the smokey gray color go away?
                                                                                                                                                the water tested fine. and it looks pretty clear when i pull it out
                                                                                                                                                but all of it together makes the color more obvious.
                                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10619 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: carbon filter
                                                                                                                                                    So says the industry.  Nobody but the industry, and those who trust it, say 30 days.  Everybody else says 3-7 days for the normal carbon cartridges.  Also, weekly water changes keep fish odors and other junk out of the water too, and are a lot cheaper. :) 
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                activated carbon does not become inert for about 30
                                                                                                                                                days in the average filter.  it has to do with volume
                                                                                                                                                of water passing through it.  it also keeps fish odors
                                                                                                                                                outof the water, and does a bit to clarify the water
                                                                                                                                                as well.
                                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10620 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: fish catastrophe
                                                                                                                                                If ammonia and nitrite were anything other than 0, they were not fine.   Were they 0?
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                Yup,
                                                                                                                                                I don't recall the numbers.  But they were all fine.  I'm puzzled.
                                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10621 From: Rachel Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: so what do i do?
                                                                                                                                                so what do i do about the carbon filter. im kind of wary of keeping my
                                                                                                                                                fish in there. should i try the other filter? (it was a 2 pack)
                                                                                                                                                if so how should i treat the filter before i put it in?
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10622 From: Rachel Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: good news
                                                                                                                                                i have great news! my parents agreed if i got an automatic feeder
                                                                                                                                                (where can i get one??) that i could set up a 10 gallon tank for my
                                                                                                                                                goldfish and leave him there when i move back in the dorms. yay! and
                                                                                                                                                also sick goldfish is still alive.
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10623 From: J G Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: salt water tank
                                                                                                                                                hey, just wondering if anyone here has any experience
                                                                                                                                                with salt water tanks. I've been seriously
                                                                                                                                                concidering getting one set up, but I've only done
                                                                                                                                                fresh water, so not too familiar with what all I'd
                                                                                                                                                need (though I have done some looking into it & will
                                                                                                                                                do more before I actually get it of course)...

                                                                                                                                                I recently was informed that there's a local fish shop
                                                                                                                                                here at school (one of the in the owner's basement
                                                                                                                                                type shop) that has both fresh & salt water fish...
                                                                                                                                                god I love stopping in there... I could spend hours
                                                                                                                                                wondering around watchin all the neat fish...

                                                                                                                                                Anyway, wanted to find someone with knoweldge of salt
                                                                                                                                                water tanks & fish to talk about how big of a tank &
                                                                                                                                                what kind of fish I should get. Dont want to bother
                                                                                                                                                everyone in the group, so email me back personally...

                                                                                                                                                thanks

                                                                                                                                                ~J





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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10624 From: paul helms Date: 4/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: good news
                                                                                                                                                any lfs or walmart should have them 15 bucks or so
                                                                                                                                                --- Rachel <star9crystal@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > i have great news! my parents agreed if i got an
                                                                                                                                                > automatic feeder
                                                                                                                                                > (where can i get one??) that i could set up a 10
                                                                                                                                                > gallon tank for my
                                                                                                                                                > goldfish and leave him there when i move back in the
                                                                                                                                                > dorms. yay! and
                                                                                                                                                > also sick goldfish is still alive.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                                                __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10625 From: paul helms Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: salt water tank
                                                                                                                                                jg, feel free to e mail me off list re: saltwater any
                                                                                                                                                time. i currenly have a 110, 55, 7, which are moving
                                                                                                                                                into a 140 that are all salt. i have 5 years
                                                                                                                                                experience in saltwater and 12 in fresh.
                                                                                                                                                paul
                                                                                                                                                wtfmorlok@...
                                                                                                                                                --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > hey, just wondering if anyone here has any
                                                                                                                                                > experience
                                                                                                                                                > with salt water tanks. I've been seriously
                                                                                                                                                > concidering getting one set up, but I've only done
                                                                                                                                                > fresh water, so not too familiar with what all I'd
                                                                                                                                                > need (though I have done some looking into it & will
                                                                                                                                                > do more before I actually get it of course)...
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > I recently was informed that there's a local fish
                                                                                                                                                > shop
                                                                                                                                                > here at school (one of the in the owner's basement
                                                                                                                                                > type shop) that has both fresh & salt water fish...
                                                                                                                                                > god I love stopping in there... I could spend hours
                                                                                                                                                > wondering around watchin all the neat fish...
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Anyway, wanted to find someone with knoweldge of
                                                                                                                                                > salt
                                                                                                                                                > water tanks & fish to talk about how big of a tank &
                                                                                                                                                > what kind of fish I should get. Dont want to bother
                                                                                                                                                > everyone in the group, so email me back
                                                                                                                                                > personally...
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > thanks
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > ~J
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                                                                                                                                                > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                                                >

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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10626 From: paul helms Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: carbon filter
                                                                                                                                                whatever pat......i usually agree with you, but
                                                                                                                                                definately not on this one
                                                                                                                                                --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                                <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > So says the industry. Nobody but the industry,
                                                                                                                                                > and those who trust it,
                                                                                                                                                > say 30 days. Everybody else says 3-7 days for the
                                                                                                                                                > normal carbon cartridges.
                                                                                                                                                > Also, weekly water changes keep fish odors and
                                                                                                                                                > other junk out of the water
                                                                                                                                                > too, and are a lot cheaper. :)
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                > activated carbon does not become inert for about 30
                                                                                                                                                > days in the average filter. it has to do with
                                                                                                                                                > volume
                                                                                                                                                > of water passing through it. it also keeps fish
                                                                                                                                                > odors
                                                                                                                                                > outof the water, and does a bit to clarify the water
                                                                                                                                                > as well.

                                                                                                                                                __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10627 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Easylife and Nishi-clay

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Guys,

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                I have been a regular user of Easylife (www.easylife.nl) and I do feel that the product does atleast 80% of the things claimed. Not sure if anyone has ever used it but then I came across Nishi-clay for Koi ponds (http://www.nishikoi.co.uk/nishikoi-uk/docs/niigata3.html) which also looks exactly like the same thing as easylife but in clay form. Easylife looks more like this clay stuff mixed in water as if it is allowed to settle, it forms a similar clay layer at the bottom. Is it possible that both are the same things? Just different prices? Easylife 5L treats about 5000L and costs an arm and a leg at £60-70 and not easily available where has Nishi clay 25gm treats 500 gallons and costs peanuts at £5 for 500gms.

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Any views or thoughts on these things?

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10628 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Organic Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                I found your website very annoying with all the pop up screens. I stopped there and didn't waste any time reading any of the information. Even when I closed your website I had damn popups. And as usual, most of pop up sites were blocked from viewing by my companies website blocking filters.

                                                                                                                                                -----
                                                                                                                                                Freescale Semiconductor Products Sector

                                                                                                                                                R. Alan Zelhart
                                                                                                                                                Comprehensive Software Asset Management
                                                                                                                                                Web site: http://csam.freescale.net
                                                                                                                                                2100 East Elliot Road; Mail Drop EL714
                                                                                                                                                Tempe, Arizona 85284


                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marius E. Gaybba
                                                                                                                                                Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 4:55 PM
                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Organic Aquariums





                                                                                                                                                Hi Guys

                                                                                                                                                We can assist with most of Your problems.
                                                                                                                                                Check out attached files in the File section, and also see Our Photos.

                                                                                                                                                http://www.organicwatersolutions.20fr.com

                                                                                                                                                Thank You
                                                                                                                                                Marius






                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks . Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10629 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: carbon filter
                                                                                                                                                We've disagreed on this point for a while. :)  I just like bringin' stuff up that I shouldn't. :) 
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                whatever pat......i usually agree with you, but
                                                                                                                                                definately not on this one
                                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10630 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ailing? Or Lazy?
                                                                                                                                                Noticed you're feeding this fish a good variety of different foods but
                                                                                                                                                are you sure she's eating them? Sometimes Angels go on feeding strikes
                                                                                                                                                and will just waste away, acting similarly to what you describe. While
                                                                                                                                                not actually seeing exactly how she's swimming (and resting on the
                                                                                                                                                bottom) I can't exactly say what may be wrong but just suggest a few
                                                                                                                                                possibilities; this is not normal behavior. Another possibility might
                                                                                                                                                be that there is some kind of swim bladder problem which would cause
                                                                                                                                                the fish to swim (& rest) in that manner. You did say the fish has
                                                                                                                                                trouble swimming at the surface -- does it swim normally in mid-water?
                                                                                                                                                Ray
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cynthia brennemann"
                                                                                                                                                <brennewoman@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > My single Angelfish female is acting oddly, though my daughter
                                                                                                                                                assures
                                                                                                                                                > me she's been acting this way for a couple of months. She lays on
                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                > bottom of the tank, doing a good dead fish imitation, till she is
                                                                                                                                                > touched, then she swims away. There are no nipped fins or white
                                                                                                                                                > patches or curled scales or pop-eye symptoms. She gets live guppy
                                                                                                                                                fry
                                                                                                                                                > from time to time, daphnia, brine shrimp, tubifex worms and
                                                                                                                                                > bloodworms. She has plenty of live plants and algae to nibble on, as
                                                                                                                                                > well as the occasional pea I drop into the tank. The tank seems to
                                                                                                                                                be
                                                                                                                                                > fine on nitrogen, though maybe a touch on the cool side. Anybody
                                                                                                                                                know
                                                                                                                                                > what's going on? Is it normal for the fish to sleep on the bottom of
                                                                                                                                                > the tank? Seems to have a little trouble swimming at the surface.
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10631 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: so what do i do?
                                                                                                                                                Rachel, Going by your description of whats happening, I'm positive
                                                                                                                                                that it has to be the new carbon canister that is darkening the water.
                                                                                                                                                It seems like the new canister has a lot of powdered carbon in it
                                                                                                                                                probably coating the larger carbon pieces. Do not use the other new
                                                                                                                                                canister; it will just make things worse. Looks like the dark water is
                                                                                                                                                a result of suspended carbon particles, some of which may settle out in
                                                                                                                                                time, but will only get stirred up again when you change water. You
                                                                                                                                                don't really need these carbon canisters, especially if you are doing
                                                                                                                                                water changes. While Pat may be correct, I've always been under the
                                                                                                                                                impression that activated carbon is good for about 30 days or so. As
                                                                                                                                                some of these canisters can be opened, if you still want the carbon
                                                                                                                                                filtration, try getting a small box of carbon from your lfs and briefly
                                                                                                                                                but thoroughly rinse a small portion to load into your canister, if
                                                                                                                                                possible. To get rid of the dark water, I believe you'll have to make
                                                                                                                                                several water changes. Perhaps a fine-pore sponge filter may help
                                                                                                                                                also. Ray
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > so what do i do about the carbon filter. im kind of wary of keeping
                                                                                                                                                my
                                                                                                                                                > fish in there. should i try the other filter? (it was a 2 pack)
                                                                                                                                                > if so how should i treat the filter before i put it in?
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10632 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                I have a HOT Magnum canister filter which uses carbon and a sponge sleeve in the filter.  Is that ok?  The guy I got the tank and stuff from told me to change the carbon every 3 months, but that he hadn't changed it recently.  I rinse the sponge sleeve monthly, when should I change the carbon?
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Angela
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                Rachel,  Going by your description of whats happening, I'm positive
                                                                                                                                                that it has to be the new carbon canister that is darkening the water. 
                                                                                                                                                It seems like the new canister has a lot of powdered carbon in it
                                                                                                                                                probably coating the larger carbon pieces.  Do not use the other new
                                                                                                                                                canister; it will just make things worse.  Looks like the dark water is
                                                                                                                                                a result of suspended carbon particles, some of which may settle out in
                                                                                                                                                time, but will only get stirred up again when you change water.  You
                                                                                                                                                don't really need these carbon canisters, especially if you are doing
                                                                                                                                                water changes.  While Pat may be correct, I've always been under the
                                                                                                                                                impression that activated carbon is good for about 30 days or so.  As
                                                                                                                                                some of these canisters can be opened, if you still want the carbon
                                                                                                                                                filtration, try getting a small box of carbon from your lfs and briefly
                                                                                                                                                but thoroughly rinse a small portion to load into your canister, if
                                                                                                                                                possible.  To get rid of the dark water, I believe you'll have to make
                                                                                                                                                several water changes.  Perhaps a fine-pore sponge filter may help
                                                                                                                                                also.  Ray       
                                                                                                                                                \                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > so what do i do about the carbon filter. im kind of wary of keeping
                                                                                                                                                my
                                                                                                                                                > fish in there. should i try the other filter? (it was a 2 pack)
                                                                                                                                                > if so how should i treat the filter before i put it in?





                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10633 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                As you have no doubt noted, there seems to be some controversy as to
                                                                                                                                                whether carbon is good for up to a week, or for as long as a month.
                                                                                                                                                As far as is generally known, carbon is definitely not good for 3
                                                                                                                                                months. As you don't know when the carbon was changed, only that it
                                                                                                                                                wasn't done recently, I would change out the carbon right now if I
                                                                                                                                                were you. As for the use of these two filter media (carbon & sponge
                                                                                                                                                sleeve), that's fine, although I would rinse out the sponge sleeve
                                                                                                                                                more frequently, depending on your fish load, using a small bucket of
                                                                                                                                                aquarium water of course. Ray
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > I have a HOT Magnum canister filter which uses carbon and a sponge
                                                                                                                                                sleeve in the filter. Is that ok? The guy I got the tank and stuff
                                                                                                                                                from told me to change the carbon every 3 months, but that he hadn't
                                                                                                                                                changed it recently. I rinse the sponge sleeve monthly, when should
                                                                                                                                                I change the carbon?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Angela
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Rachel, Going by your description of whats happening, I'm positive
                                                                                                                                                > that it has to be the new carbon canister that is darkening the
                                                                                                                                                water.
                                                                                                                                                > It seems like the new canister has a lot of powdered carbon in it
                                                                                                                                                > probably coating the larger carbon pieces. Do not use the other
                                                                                                                                                new
                                                                                                                                                > canister; it will just make things worse. Looks like the dark
                                                                                                                                                water is
                                                                                                                                                > a result of suspended carbon particles, some of which may settle
                                                                                                                                                out in
                                                                                                                                                > time, but will only get stirred up again when you change water.
                                                                                                                                                You
                                                                                                                                                > don't really need these carbon canisters, especially if you are
                                                                                                                                                doing
                                                                                                                                                > water changes. While Pat may be correct, I've always been under
                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                > impression that activated carbon is good for about 30 days or so.
                                                                                                                                                As
                                                                                                                                                > some of these canisters can be opened, if you still want the carbon
                                                                                                                                                > filtration, try getting a small box of carbon from your lfs and
                                                                                                                                                briefly
                                                                                                                                                > but thoroughly rinse a small portion to load into your canister, if
                                                                                                                                                > possible. To get rid of the dark water, I believe you'll have to
                                                                                                                                                make
                                                                                                                                                > several water changes. Perhaps a fine-pore sponge filter may help
                                                                                                                                                > also. Ray
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                \

                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > so what do i do about the carbon filter. im kind of wary of
                                                                                                                                                keeping
                                                                                                                                                > my
                                                                                                                                                > > fish in there. should i try the other filter? (it was a 2 pack)
                                                                                                                                                > > if so how should i treat the filter before i put it in?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10634 From: paul helms Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                carbon is only active for a maximum of 30 days...after
                                                                                                                                                30 days it becomes a biologic filter. if you change
                                                                                                                                                it every 3 months, you will shock your tank by
                                                                                                                                                removing a significant colony of beneficial bacteria.
                                                                                                                                                if you are not running meds and the tank is healthy,
                                                                                                                                                use it as a bio filter, it makes a great one,
                                                                                                                                                otherwise wait no more than 30 days to change. also,
                                                                                                                                                inactive carbon will not bother meds in the water, and
                                                                                                                                                there is no need to remove it when it is more than 2
                                                                                                                                                months old
                                                                                                                                                --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > I have a HOT Magnum canister filter which uses
                                                                                                                                                > carbon and a sponge sleeve in the filter. Is that
                                                                                                                                                > ok? The guy I got the tank and stuff from told me
                                                                                                                                                > to change the carbon every 3 months, but that he
                                                                                                                                                > hadn't changed it recently. I rinse the sponge
                                                                                                                                                > sleeve monthly, when should I change the carbon?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Angela
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Rachel, Going by your description of whats
                                                                                                                                                > happening, I'm positive
                                                                                                                                                > that it has to be the new carbon canister that is
                                                                                                                                                > darkening the water.
                                                                                                                                                > It seems like the new canister has a lot of powdered
                                                                                                                                                > carbon in it
                                                                                                                                                > probably coating the larger carbon pieces. Do not
                                                                                                                                                > use the other new
                                                                                                                                                > canister; it will just make things worse. Looks
                                                                                                                                                > like the dark water is
                                                                                                                                                > a result of suspended carbon particles, some of
                                                                                                                                                > which may settle out in
                                                                                                                                                > time, but will only get stirred up again when you
                                                                                                                                                > change water. You
                                                                                                                                                > don't really need these carbon canisters, especially
                                                                                                                                                > if you are doing
                                                                                                                                                > water changes. While Pat may be correct, I've
                                                                                                                                                > always been under the
                                                                                                                                                > impression that activated carbon is good for about
                                                                                                                                                > 30 days or so. As
                                                                                                                                                > some of these canisters can be opened, if you still
                                                                                                                                                > want the carbon
                                                                                                                                                > filtration, try getting a small box of carbon from
                                                                                                                                                > your lfs and briefly
                                                                                                                                                > but thoroughly rinse a small portion to load into
                                                                                                                                                > your canister, if
                                                                                                                                                > possible. To get rid of the dark water, I believe
                                                                                                                                                > you'll have to make
                                                                                                                                                > several water changes. Perhaps a fine-pore sponge
                                                                                                                                                > filter may help
                                                                                                                                                > also. Ray
                                                                                                                                                > \
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel"
                                                                                                                                                > <star9crystal@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > so what do i do about the carbon filter. im kind
                                                                                                                                                > of wary of keeping
                                                                                                                                                > my
                                                                                                                                                > > fish in there. should i try the other filter? (it
                                                                                                                                                > was a 2 pack)
                                                                                                                                                > > if so how should i treat the filter before i put
                                                                                                                                                > it in?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                                                > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                                                > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                > matter
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                > Terms of Service.

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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10635 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                So, if I use it as a biologic filter, do I just leave it indefinitely and just rinse out the sponge thing?
                                                                                                                                                Angela
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                carbon is only active for a maximum of 30 days...after
                                                                                                                                                30 days it becomes a biologic filter.  if you change
                                                                                                                                                it every 3 months, you will shock your tank by
                                                                                                                                                removing a significant colony of beneficial bacteria.
                                                                                                                                                if you are not running meds and the tank is healthy,
                                                                                                                                                use it as a bio filter, it makes a great one,
                                                                                                                                                otherwise wait no more than 30 days to change.  also,
                                                                                                                                                inactive carbon will not bother meds in the water, and
                                                                                                                                                there is no need to remove it when it is more than 2
                                                                                                                                                months old
                                                                                                                                                --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > I have a HOT Magnum canister filter which uses
                                                                                                                                                > carbon and a sponge sleeve in the filter.  Is that
                                                                                                                                                > ok?  The guy I got the tank and stuff from told me
                                                                                                                                                > to change the carbon every 3 months, but that he
                                                                                                                                                > hadn't changed it recently.  I rinse the sponge
                                                                                                                                                > sleeve monthly, when should I change the carbon?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Angela
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10636 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                My fish load is small - an African cichlid and pleco.  I do rinse the sponge in aquarium water.
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Angela
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                As you have no doubt noted, there seems to be some controversy as to
                                                                                                                                                whether carbon is good for up to a week, or for as long as a month. 
                                                                                                                                                As far as is generally known, carbon is definitely not good for 3
                                                                                                                                                months.  As you don't know when the carbon was changed, only that it
                                                                                                                                                wasn't done recently, I would change out the carbon right now if I
                                                                                                                                                were you.  As for the use of these two filter media (carbon & sponge
                                                                                                                                                sleeve), that's fine, although I would rinse out the sponge sleeve
                                                                                                                                                more frequently, depending on your fish load, using a small bucket of
                                                                                                                                                aquarium water of course.  Ray                                     
                                                                                                                                                \                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10637 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ailing? Or Lazy?
                                                                                                                                                We're sure she's eating. she can get up to the top of the tank, but
                                                                                                                                                it seems to take an awful lot of effort. Her swimming seems to be as
                                                                                                                                                if it's against a current coming from the top of the tank, a lot of
                                                                                                                                                effort and very little movement even in the middle of the tank. When
                                                                                                                                                touched, she darts off almost normally, but as soon as the frantic
                                                                                                                                                first dash is expended, she's back to struggling. She actually looks
                                                                                                                                                like a dead fish when she lays on the floor of the tank. Anything I
                                                                                                                                                can do to help her? She's my favorite fish, and actually comes and
                                                                                                                                                eats bloodworms from my fingers.

                                                                                                                                                > Noticed you're feeding this fish a good variety of different foods
                                                                                                                                                but
                                                                                                                                                > are you sure she's eating them? Sometimes Angels go on feeding
                                                                                                                                                strikes
                                                                                                                                                > and will just waste away, acting similarly to what you describe.
                                                                                                                                                While
                                                                                                                                                > not actually seeing exactly how she's swimming (and resting on the
                                                                                                                                                > bottom) I can't exactly say what may be wrong but just suggest a
                                                                                                                                                few
                                                                                                                                                > possibilities; this is not normal behavior. Another possibility
                                                                                                                                                might
                                                                                                                                                > be that there is some kind of swim bladder problem which would
                                                                                                                                                cause
                                                                                                                                                > the fish to swim (& rest) in that manner. You did say the fish has
                                                                                                                                                > trouble swimming at the surface -- does it swim normally in mid-
                                                                                                                                                water?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                Ray
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10638 From: fuzzybpebble Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Introduction to me and my fish
                                                                                                                                                I am Bethany Notter and have 9 fish at present. 1 Male Betta, 6
                                                                                                                                                baby guppies, 2 baby(2 week old) guppies. The Betta has his own
                                                                                                                                                tank in the Bathroom cabinet, the 6 older guppies have a 10 gallon,
                                                                                                                                                and the Baby Baby guppies have a betta tank that is 6 or 8 sided.
                                                                                                                                                All are doing great. One of my older guppy females looks pregnant,
                                                                                                                                                so I could have more fry to go in with the BABY guppies. All are
                                                                                                                                                fresh water tanks. Bought the 6 and Betta at my LPS. Originally
                                                                                                                                                had 3 Bettas, 1 male, 2 female, and 8 regular guppies. Lost the 2
                                                                                                                                                girls from ammonia levels, and the two guppies from I do not know
                                                                                                                                                what.

                                                                                                                                                This is my second Fish group that I have been in. I am single, 30,
                                                                                                                                                and live with my parents who own a cat named Spice. My fish do not
                                                                                                                                                have names. I am on a limited budget and any support or advice
                                                                                                                                                would be greatly appricated.

                                                                                                                                                Bethany
                                                                                                                                                fuzzybpebble@...

                                                                                                                                                PS. I am on Yahoo! messenger, same name
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10639 From: foxcreekhomestead Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: wild snails
                                                                                                                                                I live in northern saskatchewan canada, and I have an unlimited access
                                                                                                                                                to a wild population of native ramshorn snails. Are they safe to put
                                                                                                                                                in my aquarium after a lengthy quarantine in a separate tank?
                                                                                                                                                (ie:including several water changes to rid them of water born
                                                                                                                                                parasites) And is there anything else I can do to avoid bringing
                                                                                                                                                disease or parasites into my tank. I enjoy native fauna whenever
                                                                                                                                                possible and think they would make a nice addition to my 66gal tank.
                                                                                                                                                Thanks for reading, PJ Soles
                                                                                                                                                P.S.
                                                                                                                                                I have no live plants in this tank.
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10640 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: HELP! BParrot trouble

                                                                                                                                                He has puffiness around an eye.  It is whitish in color and was not this way last night so is rapid.  What is it and what do I do?

                                                                                                                                                I just tested and need to do a water change but is this a disease? 

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10641 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ailing? Or Lazy?
                                                                                                                                                While I cannot tell you exactly why, I am sorry to have to tell you
                                                                                                                                                that, for whatever reason, it appears as if the swim bladder has been
                                                                                                                                                damaged at some point. Unfortunately, it is mozt doubtful that she
                                                                                                                                                will recover from this and swim normally again, unless by some
                                                                                                                                                miracle (stranger things have happened), but I wouldn't give too much
                                                                                                                                                hope. Quite often, its a lack of proper nutrition due to not eating
                                                                                                                                                that brings this on. At least she's eating good, as you say, but its
                                                                                                                                                seldom that this condition reverses. Just watch that other fish
                                                                                                                                                don't pick on her. Ray
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cynthia brennemann"
                                                                                                                                                <brennewoman@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > We're sure she's eating. she can get up to the top of the tank,
                                                                                                                                                but
                                                                                                                                                > it seems to take an awful lot of effort. Her swimming seems to be
                                                                                                                                                as
                                                                                                                                                > if it's against a current coming from the top of the tank, a lot of
                                                                                                                                                > effort and very little movement even in the middle of the tank.
                                                                                                                                                When
                                                                                                                                                > touched, she darts off almost normally, but as soon as the frantic
                                                                                                                                                > first dash is expended, she's back to struggling. She actually
                                                                                                                                                looks
                                                                                                                                                > like a dead fish when she lays on the floor of the tank. Anything
                                                                                                                                                I
                                                                                                                                                > can do to help her? She's my favorite fish, and actually comes and
                                                                                                                                                > eats bloodworms from my fingers.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > > Noticed you're feeding this fish a good variety of different
                                                                                                                                                foods
                                                                                                                                                > but
                                                                                                                                                > > are you sure she's eating them? Sometimes Angels go on feeding
                                                                                                                                                > strikes
                                                                                                                                                > > and will just waste away, acting similarly to what you describe.
                                                                                                                                                > While
                                                                                                                                                > > not actually seeing exactly how she's swimming (and resting on
                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                > > bottom) I can't exactly say what may be wrong but just suggest a
                                                                                                                                                > few
                                                                                                                                                > > possibilities; this is not normal behavior. Another possibility
                                                                                                                                                > might
                                                                                                                                                > > be that there is some kind of swim bladder problem which would
                                                                                                                                                > cause
                                                                                                                                                > > the fish to swim (& rest) in that manner. You did say the fish
                                                                                                                                                has
                                                                                                                                                > > trouble swimming at the surface -- does it swim normally in mid-
                                                                                                                                                > water?
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > Ray
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10642 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP! BParrot trouble
                                                                                                                                                If I gather your description correctly, and the eye is puffy, it sounds
                                                                                                                                                like a disease called "pop-eye", or if the eye coating is whitish its
                                                                                                                                                called "eye-cloud". In either case, after a large (75% - 80%) water
                                                                                                                                                change, treat with Jungle Laboratories "Fungus Eliminator" and add 2
                                                                                                                                                tsp Kosher salt per gallon -- raise temperature to 78o. Maracyn II is
                                                                                                                                                also said to be effective. For eye-cloud, I've had good results with
                                                                                                                                                Aquarisol, double the recommended dosage. Ray
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > He has puffiness around an eye. It is whitish in color and was not
                                                                                                                                                this
                                                                                                                                                > way last night so is rapid. What is it and what do I do?
                                                                                                                                                > I just tested and need to do a water change but is this a disease?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10643 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP! BParrot trouble

                                                                                                                                                It’s these puffy places that are around his eye.  The eye itself is not puffy but the area around it is.  It looks like someone that has had an allergic reaction to something.  He’s been swimming funny the past two days but he’s done that before and nothing has come of it.  So one thing may have nothing to do with the other.

                                                                                                                                                The two parrots were biting each others mouths the other day and each one had some damage from the other. But I don’t think these are the places that were hurt either.  Those seem to have healed on their own.

                                                                                                                                                I have a sick tank ready to go if needed.  It doesn’t have a filter but its heated and has a bubble wand. I’ll look up pop-eye right now.  And there isn’t any cloudiness on the actual eye area.

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 2:29 PM
                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! BParrot trouble

                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                If I gather your description correctly, and the eye is puffy, it sounds
                                                                                                                                                like a disease called "pop-eye", or if the eye coating is whitish its
                                                                                                                                                called "eye-cloud".  In either case, after a large (75% - 80%) water
                                                                                                                                                change, treat with Jungle Laboratories "Fungus Eliminator" and add 2
                                                                                                                                                tsp Kosher salt per gallon -- raise temperature to 78o.  Maracyn II is
                                                                                                                                                also said to be effective.  For eye-cloud, I've had good results with
                                                                                                                                                Aquarisol, double the recommended dosage.  Ray                        
                                                                                                                                                \                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > He has puffiness around an eye.  It is whitish in color and was not
                                                                                                                                                this
                                                                                                                                                > way last night so is rapid.  What is it and what do I do?
                                                                                                                                                > I just tested and need to do a water change but is this a disease? 

                                                                                                                                                > Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/





                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10644 From: kb1dva Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: FW: new tank

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                From: kb1dva [mailto:vze3pd7a@...]
                                                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 4:26 PM
                                                                                                                                                To: 'aquaticlifea@yahoogroups.com'
                                                                                                                                                Subject: new tank

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Hi

                                                                                                                                                I am new to the group and have a problem. About 2 -3 months ago I was given a 20 gallon long tank with what I now know are a variety of cichlids, including a large about 11 inches long red bellied pacu. It didn’t take long to realize I needed a bigger tank. And I located a 90 gallon tank (used). The problem is how I make the change to the big tank.

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                The former owner did nothing to baby these fish, no chemicals, water straight from the tap. They where eating goldfish pellets. Since then I have changed filters-one at a time. And changed the water a lot. And they are eating cichlid pellets I haven’t gotten into PH testing and all that. Ok the short version is I am a real novice

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                The questions  

                                                                                                                                                The tank was outside upside down I have cleaned it using a razor blade and then rinsing with hot water is that good enough. I have no idea what was in the tank or how long it was outside

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                The filter is marginal it will handle up to 70 gallons should I replace it now or wait. Ditto with gravel the gravel will be a drop in the bucket

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                And how do you handle such a big fish-no pun intended but I really out of my depth here. Thanks ahead of time for any and all help. I’ve looked at books and on line but it seems like they make it more complicated than it is.    Emily

                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10645 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ailing? Or Lazy?
                                                                                                                                                Is this go ing to kill the fish? Or is there something I can do to
                                                                                                                                                help her swim better? Maybe tie a little floatie to her?

                                                                                                                                                > While I cannot tell you exactly why, I am sorry to have to tell you
                                                                                                                                                > that, for whatever reason, it appears as if the swim bladder has been
                                                                                                                                                > damaged at some point. Unfortunately, it is mozt doubtful that she
                                                                                                                                                > will recover from this and swim normally again, unless by some
                                                                                                                                                > miracle (stranger things have happened), but I wouldn't give too much
                                                                                                                                                > hope. Quite often, its a lack of proper nutrition due to not eating
                                                                                                                                                > that brings this on. At least she's eating good, as you say, but its
                                                                                                                                                > seldom that this condition reverses. Just watch that other fish
                                                                                                                                                > don't pick on her. Ray
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10646 From: foxcreekhomestead Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: FW: new tank
                                                                                                                                                What I usually do with a used tank is to wash it with lots and
                                                                                                                                                lots of strong bleach solution, just make sure you rinse it 5 or 6
                                                                                                                                                times really well, with hot water. Also I prefer to never keep
                                                                                                                                                gravel from someone else's tank, It is the most likely part to
                                                                                                                                                transmitt disease. However if you would like to keep it anyway I
                                                                                                                                                would suggest washing it well AND useing a large pot or kettle to
                                                                                                                                                boil the gravel for about 5 min per batch to help kill any bacteria
                                                                                                                                                or disease.

                                                                                                                                                As for handling the fish you should be able to net it with a
                                                                                                                                                large koi net, If you don't have access to a kio net you should be
                                                                                                                                                able to find a suitable net in the fishing department of your local
                                                                                                                                                sporting goods store. just make sure it is a fine enough weave that
                                                                                                                                                he won't get stuck.
                                                                                                                                                Hope this helps PJ Soles

                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kb1dva" <vze3pd7a@v...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > _____
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > From: kb1dva [mailto:vze3pd7a@v...]
                                                                                                                                                > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 4:26 PM
                                                                                                                                                > To: 'aquaticlifea@yahoogroups.com'
                                                                                                                                                > Subject: new tank
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Hi
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > I am new to the group and have a problem. About 2 -3 months ago I
                                                                                                                                                was given
                                                                                                                                                > a 20 gallon long tank with what I now know are a variety of
                                                                                                                                                cichlids,
                                                                                                                                                > including a large about 11 inches long red bellied pacu. It didn't
                                                                                                                                                take long
                                                                                                                                                > to realize I needed a bigger tank. And I located a 90 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                (used).
                                                                                                                                                > The problem is how I make the change to the big tank.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > The former owner did nothing to baby these fish, no chemicals,
                                                                                                                                                water
                                                                                                                                                > straight from the tap. They where eating goldfish pellets. Since
                                                                                                                                                then I have
                                                                                                                                                > changed filters-one at a time. And changed the water a lot. And
                                                                                                                                                they are
                                                                                                                                                > eating cichlid pellets I haven't gotten into PH testing and all
                                                                                                                                                that. Ok the
                                                                                                                                                > short version is I am a real novice
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > The questions
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > The tank was outside upside down I have cleaned it using a razor
                                                                                                                                                blade and
                                                                                                                                                > then rinsing with hot water is that good enough. I have no idea
                                                                                                                                                what was in
                                                                                                                                                > the tank or how long it was outside
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > The filter is marginal it will handle up to 70 gallons should I
                                                                                                                                                replace it
                                                                                                                                                > now or wait. Ditto with gravel the gravel will be a drop in the
                                                                                                                                                bucket
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > And how do you handle such a big fish-no pun intended but I really
                                                                                                                                                out of my
                                                                                                                                                > depth here. Thanks ahead of time for any and all help. I've looked
                                                                                                                                                at books
                                                                                                                                                > and on line but it seems like they make it more complicated than
                                                                                                                                                it is.
                                                                                                                                                > Emily
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10647 From: joequality1980 Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: retrofiting lights
                                                                                                                                                Finally I'm doing research into retrofiting my existing fair-wattage
                                                                                                                                                lighting to something a lot better. I've looked around at some
                                                                                                                                                products and would like to get input if anyone has done this, and
                                                                                                                                                what
                                                                                                                                                brands are best/not too expensive.
                                                                                                                                                I've seen JBJ, but they are close to $200 for 24". Coralife is
                                                                                                                                                another
                                                                                                                                                option, as well as some random site that sells bare-bones:
                                                                                                                                                www.ahsupply.com

                                                                                                                                                Any suggestions or experiences?
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10648 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: FW: new tank
                                                                                                                                                Scrub out the tank with a new scotch brite pad (not brillo) no soap you can use salt or baking soda as an abrasive also if you want to rinse it real well and fill it with water make sure it doesn't leak an empty tank stored upside down can easily split a seam (I am assuming this is a glass tank not Plexiglas). You may also want to add a cup  or so of bleach to sterilize it remove that water refill and dechlorinate. as soon as it holds water put all ornaments fake plants and gravel from the old tank into the new tank  filled with declorinated water move fish and whatever filter you have to the new tank  from the old tank and do not wash the filters from the old tank you could rinse them in tank water from the old tank if you want to. All the stuff from the old tank will seed the new tank with needed bacteria.
                                                                                                                                                 You will have to do frequent water changes after the tank is running for a little while once a week or more.  Invest in ammonia and nitrite and pH test kits and use them everyday.
                                                                                                                                                  This is not the best way to do it but the fish will do way better in the big tank no matter what else.
                                                                                                                                                  The filter is to small for the tank but better than nothing and as long as that is all you have and you add no more fish you could run two filters if you have them temporarily but do upgrade as soon as you can it is however better to use a "dirty" filter than a clean one in this case.
                                                                                                                                                 Now moving the big fish will be difficult I recommend removing enough water to leave him just enough to barely be upright place a plastic container that he will fit in at one end of the tank and herding him into the container then floating the container in the new tank. Be aware that large fish can move a lot of water with their tails so expect to get wet.
                                                                                                                                                 Just an FYI the pacu will outgrow that tank also.
                                                                                                                                                  Elaine
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10649 From: paul helms Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: wild snails
                                                                                                                                                as long as you do not have live plants that you are
                                                                                                                                                attached to, they won't hurt anything, but you will
                                                                                                                                                have hundreds quickly
                                                                                                                                                --- foxcreekhomestead <foxcreek@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > I live in northern saskatchewan canada, and I have
                                                                                                                                                > an unlimited access
                                                                                                                                                > to a wild population of native ramshorn snails. Are
                                                                                                                                                > they safe to put
                                                                                                                                                > in my aquarium after a lengthy quarantine in a
                                                                                                                                                > separate tank?
                                                                                                                                                > (ie:including several water changes to rid them of
                                                                                                                                                > water born
                                                                                                                                                > parasites) And is there anything else I can do to
                                                                                                                                                > avoid bringing
                                                                                                                                                > disease or parasites into my tank. I enjoy native
                                                                                                                                                > fauna whenever
                                                                                                                                                > possible and think they would make a nice addition
                                                                                                                                                > to my 66gal tank.
                                                                                                                                                > Thanks for reading,
                                                                                                                                                > PJ Soles
                                                                                                                                                > P.S.
                                                                                                                                                > I have no live plants in this tank.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                                                __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10650 From: paul helms Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                yup

                                                                                                                                                --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > So, if I use it as a biologic filter, do I just
                                                                                                                                                > leave it indefinitely and just rinse out the sponge
                                                                                                                                                > thing?
                                                                                                                                                > Angela
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                > carbon is only active for a maximum of 30
                                                                                                                                                > days...after
                                                                                                                                                > 30 days it becomes a biologic filter. if you change
                                                                                                                                                > it every 3 months, you will shock your tank by
                                                                                                                                                > removing a significant colony of beneficial
                                                                                                                                                > bacteria.
                                                                                                                                                > if you are not running meds and the tank is healthy,
                                                                                                                                                > use it as a bio filter, it makes a great one,
                                                                                                                                                > otherwise wait no more than 30 days to change.
                                                                                                                                                > also,
                                                                                                                                                > inactive carbon will not bother meds in the water,
                                                                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                                                                > there is no need to remove it when it is more than 2
                                                                                                                                                > months old
                                                                                                                                                > --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > I have a HOT Magnum canister filter which uses
                                                                                                                                                > > carbon and a sponge sleeve in the filter. Is that
                                                                                                                                                > > ok? The guy I got the tank and stuff from told me
                                                                                                                                                > > to change the carbon every 3 months, but that he
                                                                                                                                                > > hadn't changed it recently. I rinse the sponge
                                                                                                                                                > > sleeve monthly, when should I change the carbon?
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Angela
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >

                                                                                                                                                __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10651 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ailing? Or Lazy?
                                                                                                                                                No this will not kill the fish, but its doubtful that it will ever swim
                                                                                                                                                normally again. If you can figure a way to tie some kind of float to
                                                                                                                                                her, great! That might help; you might have to punch a hole in the top
                                                                                                                                                (Dorsal) fin to run a string though. As long as it eats regularly and
                                                                                                                                                does not get picked on by other tankmates, it should be alright. There
                                                                                                                                                is always the possibility though, that laying on its side as it does
                                                                                                                                                may wipe away the protective slime coating on the gravel which may
                                                                                                                                                start a fungus infection, or a cloudy eye. If caught right away, okay,
                                                                                                                                                but if not, a secondary infection could occure where bacteria could
                                                                                                                                                get into the skin or eye, which could lead to its downfall, as it could
                                                                                                                                                then lose an eye. I think its best in this case to right now add and
                                                                                                                                                maintain 1 tbs of Kosher salt per five gallons, as some people normally
                                                                                                                                                do anyway. The salt will help stop most minor infections before they
                                                                                                                                                start. Ray
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cynthia brennemann"
                                                                                                                                                <brennewoman@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Is this go ing to kill the fish? Or is there something I can do to
                                                                                                                                                > help her swim better? Maybe tie a little floatie to her?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > > While I cannot tell you exactly why, I am sorry to have to tell you
                                                                                                                                                > > that, for whatever reason, it appears as if the swim bladder has
                                                                                                                                                been
                                                                                                                                                > > damaged at some point. Unfortunately, it is mozt doubtful that she
                                                                                                                                                > > will recover from this and swim normally again, unless by some
                                                                                                                                                > > miracle (stranger things have happened), but I wouldn't give too
                                                                                                                                                much
                                                                                                                                                > > hope. Quite often, its a lack of proper nutrition due to not
                                                                                                                                                eating
                                                                                                                                                > > that brings this on. At least she's eating good, as you say, but
                                                                                                                                                its
                                                                                                                                                > > seldom that this condition reverses. Just watch that other fish
                                                                                                                                                > > don't pick on her. Ray
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10652 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Blood Parrot: Puffy face and swims sideways (& Filter Question)

                                                                                                                                                ACK!

                                                                                                                                                His face puffed up this morning and now he swimming at an angle to his right.  He looks like he ate something he’s allergic to. 

                                                                                                                                                The ammonia was not good so I did a 45% water change & cleaned the filter. 

                                                                                                                                                I’m wondering on the quality of my filter also.  It is an EHEIM something or other with a pump that floats up & down then sprays the water back in the top.  (Can’t tell I’m a newbie eh?)  =)

                                                                                                                                                We were given a chemical filter but don’t have it up and running yet.  Should I get that going?  If yes, how and what good do they do?

                                                                                                                                                Also, how do you clean the inside of these EHEIM filters?

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10653 From: foxcreekhomestead Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: wild snails
                                                                                                                                                What is the difference between the native north american ramshorn
                                                                                                                                                snails and the ones you buy in the pet store? Is there even a
                                                                                                                                                difference? If there is why don't they sell more native species in pet
                                                                                                                                                stores?


                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > as long as you do not have live plants that you are
                                                                                                                                                > attached to, they won't hurt anything, but you will
                                                                                                                                                > have hundreds quickly
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10654 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Mystery snails and egg shells question
                                                                                                                                                Hello,
                                                                                                                                                someone on here mentioned to me that I could use clean dry egg
                                                                                                                                                shells well smashed to help my snails with calcium and would like a
                                                                                                                                                little more info. My local pet store has to order the liquid calcium
                                                                                                                                                so it's gonna take awhile. So I'm gonna go the egg shell route until
                                                                                                                                                than. Can you tell me how much to add. They are gonna start life in a
                                                                                                                                                little plastic shoebox size box. Should I add one egg shell or more
                                                                                                                                                and is there a chance that if I add to much egg shell it might kill
                                                                                                                                                them. Any info thanks.
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10655 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Kosher salt good or bad?
                                                                                                                                                I think we have covered this but i'll ask any ways, should i add
                                                                                                                                                this kosher salt to my tank? and is that the general concensus?

                                                                                                                                                > I think its best in this case to right now add and maintain 1 tbs
                                                                                                                                                > of Kosher salt per five gallons, as some people normally do
                                                                                                                                                > anyway. The salt will help stop most minor infections before
                                                                                                                                                > they start.



                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                From: "Ray Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...>
                                                                                                                                                To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:47 AM
                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ailing? Or Lazy?


                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > No this will not kill the fish, but its doubtful that it will ever swim
                                                                                                                                                > normally again. If you can figure a way to tie some kind of float to
                                                                                                                                                > her, great! That might help; you might have to punch a hole in the top
                                                                                                                                                > (Dorsal) fin to run a string though. As long as it eats regularly and
                                                                                                                                                > does not get picked on by other tankmates, it should be alright. There
                                                                                                                                                > is always the possibility though, that laying on its side as it does
                                                                                                                                                > may wipe away the protective slime coating on the gravel which may
                                                                                                                                                > start a fungus infection, or a cloudy eye. If caught right away, okay,
                                                                                                                                                > but if not, a secondary infection could occure where bacteria could
                                                                                                                                                > get into the skin or eye, which could lead to its downfall, as it could
                                                                                                                                                > then lose an eye. I think its best in this case to right now add and
                                                                                                                                                > maintain 1 tbs of Kosher salt per five gallons, as some people normally
                                                                                                                                                > do anyway. The salt will help stop most minor infections before they
                                                                                                                                                > start. Ray
                                                                                                                                                > \
                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cynthia brennemann"
                                                                                                                                                > <brennewoman@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                >> Is this go ing to kill the fish? Or is there something I can do to
                                                                                                                                                >> help her swim better? Maybe tie a little floatie to her?
                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                >> > While I cannot tell you exactly why, I am sorry to have to tell you
                                                                                                                                                >> > that, for whatever reason, it appears as if the swim bladder has
                                                                                                                                                > been
                                                                                                                                                >> > damaged at some point. Unfortunately, it is mozt doubtful that she
                                                                                                                                                >> > will recover from this and swim normally again, unless by some
                                                                                                                                                >> > miracle (stranger things have happened), but I wouldn't give too
                                                                                                                                                > much
                                                                                                                                                >> > hope. Quite often, its a lack of proper nutrition due to not
                                                                                                                                                > eating
                                                                                                                                                >> > that brings this on. At least she's eating good, as you say, but
                                                                                                                                                > its
                                                                                                                                                >> > seldom that this condition reverses. Just watch that other fish
                                                                                                                                                >> > don't pick on her. Ray
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10656 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Kosher salt good or bad?
                                                                                                                                                Yes, we covered this many times over and don't really need to go over
                                                                                                                                                it again. Why beat a dead horse!?!? The addition of salt is a
                                                                                                                                                matter of personal choice, but is not really needed. There are rare
                                                                                                                                                occassions, such as this, where it has its uses, otherwise its
                                                                                                                                                unnecessary. Ray
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas Munro" <nmunro@q...>
                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > I think we have covered this but i'll ask any ways, should i add
                                                                                                                                                > this kosher salt to my tank? and is that the general concensus?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > > I think its best in this case to right now add and maintain 1 tbs
                                                                                                                                                > > of Kosher salt per five gallons, as some people normally do
                                                                                                                                                > > anyway. The salt will help stop most minor infections before
                                                                                                                                                > > they start.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                > From: "Ray Wetzel" <sevenspringss@w...>
                                                                                                                                                > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:47 AM
                                                                                                                                                > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ailing? Or Lazy?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > No this will not kill the fish, but its doubtful that it will
                                                                                                                                                ever swim
                                                                                                                                                > > normally again. If you can figure a way to tie some kind of
                                                                                                                                                float to
                                                                                                                                                > > her, great! That might help; you might have to punch a hole in
                                                                                                                                                the top
                                                                                                                                                > > (Dorsal) fin to run a string though. As long as it eats
                                                                                                                                                regularly and
                                                                                                                                                > > does not get picked on by other tankmates, it should be alright.
                                                                                                                                                There
                                                                                                                                                > > is always the possibility though, that laying on its side as it
                                                                                                                                                does
                                                                                                                                                > > may wipe away the protective slime coating on the gravel which may
                                                                                                                                                > > start a fungus infection, or a cloudy eye. If caught right away,
                                                                                                                                                okay,
                                                                                                                                                > > but if not, a secondary infection could occure where bacteria
                                                                                                                                                could
                                                                                                                                                > > get into the skin or eye, which could lead to its downfall, as it
                                                                                                                                                could
                                                                                                                                                > > then lose an eye. I think its best in this case to right now add
                                                                                                                                                and
                                                                                                                                                > > maintain 1 tbs of Kosher salt per five gallons, as some people
                                                                                                                                                normally
                                                                                                                                                > > do anyway. The salt will help stop most minor infections before
                                                                                                                                                they
                                                                                                                                                > > start. Ray
                                                                                                                                                > > \
                                                                                                                                                > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cynthia brennemann"
                                                                                                                                                > > <brennewoman@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > >>
                                                                                                                                                > >> Is this go ing to kill the fish? Or is there something I can do
                                                                                                                                                to
                                                                                                                                                > >> help her swim better? Maybe tie a little floatie to her?
                                                                                                                                                > >>
                                                                                                                                                > >> > While I cannot tell you exactly why, I am sorry to have to
                                                                                                                                                tell you
                                                                                                                                                > >> > that, for whatever reason, it appears as if the swim bladder
                                                                                                                                                has
                                                                                                                                                > > been
                                                                                                                                                > >> > damaged at some point. Unfortunately, it is mozt doubtful
                                                                                                                                                that she
                                                                                                                                                > >> > will recover from this and swim normally again, unless by some
                                                                                                                                                > >> > miracle (stranger things have happened), but I wouldn't give
                                                                                                                                                too
                                                                                                                                                > > much
                                                                                                                                                > >> > hope. Quite often, its a lack of proper nutrition due to not
                                                                                                                                                > > eating
                                                                                                                                                > >> > that brings this on. At least she's eating good, as you say,
                                                                                                                                                but
                                                                                                                                                > > its
                                                                                                                                                > >> > seldom that this condition reverses. Just watch that other
                                                                                                                                                fish
                                                                                                                                                > >> > don't pick on her. Ray
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                important to
                                                                                                                                                > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                modify the
                                                                                                                                                > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10658 From: Nan Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Mystery snails and egg shells question

                                                                                                                                                I gave you that advice, and it was given to me by Ms. Mast on the http://home.mchsi.com/~masts/index.html website for the Mystery snails.  I crushed up about 4 eggs worth of egg shells and put it in two 10 gallon tanks.  I only made the mistake of not getting alllll of the membrane off the shell, be sure to do that or it will smell like boiled eggs.  It was awful, trust me not something I want to come home to again...*LOL*   I crushed all of it up reall fine and then sprinked it in my tank.  Some of it will float on top of the water, however, if you just lightly touch it, it will sink to the bottom of your tank. 
                                                                                                                                                ~nan~
                                                                                                                                                mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                Hello,
                                                                                                                                                  someone on here mentioned to me that I could use clean dry egg
                                                                                                                                                shells well smashed to help my snails with calcium and would like a
                                                                                                                                                little more info. My local pet store has to order the liquid calcium
                                                                                                                                                so it's gonna take awhile. So I'm gonna go the egg shell route until
                                                                                                                                                than. Can you tell me how much to add. They are gonna start life in a
                                                                                                                                                little plastic shoebox size box. Should I add one egg shell or more
                                                                                                                                                and is there a chance that if I add to much egg shell it might kill
                                                                                                                                                them. Any info thanks.




                                                                                                                                                __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10659 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP! BParrot trouble
                                                                                                                                                Wow, that is weird. Can't say what that might be, but does seem to
                                                                                                                                                be some kind of general infection, I would think probably brought on
                                                                                                                                                directly from the stress of the poor water conditions. Normally I
                                                                                                                                                would hesitate to use medications indiscriminantly, without knowing
                                                                                                                                                exactly what you are treating for. Unless someone else has some idea
                                                                                                                                                of what this may be, I can only say to treat with a general broad
                                                                                                                                                spectrum antibiotic and get the water as free of ammonia and nitrites
                                                                                                                                                as possible (normally adviseable anyway), in hopes it may have some
                                                                                                                                                effect on what seems to be some sort of bacterial infection. The
                                                                                                                                                fact that its swimming funny would seem to indicate that the fish is
                                                                                                                                                infected internally (swim bladder) as well, in addition to just in
                                                                                                                                                the facial area. Ray
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > It's these puffy places that are around his eye. The eye itself is
                                                                                                                                                not
                                                                                                                                                > puffy but the area around it is. It looks like someone that has
                                                                                                                                                had an
                                                                                                                                                > allergic reaction to something. He's been swimming funny the past
                                                                                                                                                two
                                                                                                                                                > days but he's done that before and nothing has come of it. So one
                                                                                                                                                thing
                                                                                                                                                > may have nothing to do with the other.
                                                                                                                                                > The two parrots were biting each others mouths the other day and
                                                                                                                                                each
                                                                                                                                                > one had some damage from the other. But I don't think these are the
                                                                                                                                                > places that were hurt either. Those seem to have healed on their
                                                                                                                                                own.
                                                                                                                                                > I have a sick tank ready to go if needed. It doesn't have a filter
                                                                                                                                                but
                                                                                                                                                > its heated and has a bubble wand. I'll look up pop-eye right now.
                                                                                                                                                And
                                                                                                                                                > there isn't any cloudiness on the actual eye area.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                Garage
                                                                                                                                                > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                > On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 2:29 PM
                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! BParrot trouble
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > If I gather your description correctly, and the eye is puffy, it
                                                                                                                                                sounds
                                                                                                                                                > like a disease called "pop-eye", or if the eye coating is whitish
                                                                                                                                                its
                                                                                                                                                > called "eye-cloud". In either case, after a large (75% - 80%)
                                                                                                                                                water
                                                                                                                                                > change, treat with Jungle Laboratories "Fungus Eliminator" and add
                                                                                                                                                2
                                                                                                                                                > tsp Kosher salt per gallon -- raise temperature to 78o. Maracyn II
                                                                                                                                                is
                                                                                                                                                > also said to be effective. For eye-cloud, I've had good results
                                                                                                                                                with
                                                                                                                                                > Aquarisol, double the recommended dosage.
                                                                                                                                                Ray
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                \

                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > He has puffiness around an eye. It is whitish in color and was
                                                                                                                                                not
                                                                                                                                                > this
                                                                                                                                                > > way last night so is rapid. What is it and what do I do?
                                                                                                                                                > > I just tested and need to do a water change but is this a
                                                                                                                                                disease?
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                Garage
                                                                                                                                                > > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                important
                                                                                                                                                > to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                modify
                                                                                                                                                > the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                > Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10660 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: I REALLY need help here...pleeease

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                The blood parrot is still puffy around the “face”.  His eyes are not puffy, just around  his eyes.  He swims crooked as well.  NOW I see the other BP has a pale slimy thing hanging out of his right gill.  WHAT is THIS?!  I can’t find anything on the net that resembles this stuff.  I want to treat them but with WHAT?  It doesn’t appear to be dropsy but it might be early stages?  There isn’t anything that says just what the early stages are, just that if the scales stick out it’s too late.  No scales are out but I don’t want to ignore what’s going on here.

                                                                                                                                                Any help at all, ple------ase?

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10661 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Mystery snails and egg shells question
                                                                                                                                                Thanks for the info. So I'm gonna guess that I should only use like a
                                                                                                                                                small quarter of an egg shell for the little box. I was told that was
                                                                                                                                                a good house while there little since it's easy to clean and they
                                                                                                                                                won't get crushed between the rocks when doing a water change
                                                                                                                                                (cleaning the rocks). Thanks and they should be here thursday I missed
                                                                                                                                                the first auction so I had to bid again and this time won. That's why
                                                                                                                                                I don't have them yet. (since my last post I was getting them than).


                                                                                                                                                > I gave you that advice, and it was given to me by Ms. Mast on the
                                                                                                                                                http://home.mchsi.com/~masts/index.html website for the Mystery
                                                                                                                                                snails. I crushed up about 4 eggs worth of egg shells and put it in
                                                                                                                                                two 10 gallon tanks. I only made the mistake of not getting alllll of
                                                                                                                                                the membrane off the shell, be sure to do that or it will smell like
                                                                                                                                                boiled eggs. It was awful, trust me not something I want to come home
                                                                                                                                                to again...*LOL* I crushed all of it up reall fine and then sprinked
                                                                                                                                                it in my tank. Some of it will float on top of the water, however, if
                                                                                                                                                you just lightly touch it, it will sink to the bottom of your tank.
                                                                                                                                                > ~nan~



                                                                                                                                                > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                > someone on here mentioned to me that I could use clean dry egg
                                                                                                                                                > shells well smashed to help my snails with calcium and would like a
                                                                                                                                                > little more info. My local pet store has to order the liquid calcium
                                                                                                                                                > so it's gonna take awhile. So I'm gonna go the egg shell route until
                                                                                                                                                > than. Can you tell me how much to add. They are gonna start life in a
                                                                                                                                                > little plastic shoebox size box. Should I add one egg shell or more
                                                                                                                                                > and is there a chance that if I add to much egg shell it might kill
                                                                                                                                                > them. Any info thanks.
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10662 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: so what do i do?
                                                                                                                                                Rachel,

                                                                                                                                                Just tagging in here. There has always been a great debate about the use of
                                                                                                                                                activated carbon in the aquarium. Some people will swear by it, while others
                                                                                                                                                will swear at it.

                                                                                                                                                The amount of carbon in those doo-dads for your undergravel filter do not
                                                                                                                                                really contain enough carbon to do diddly squat. IMHO, they are a waste of
                                                                                                                                                money. It is my considered opinion that the use of carbon for chemical
                                                                                                                                                filtration is required only in certain circumstances, such as the removal of
                                                                                                                                                medication from the tank after a treatment, with removal after 7 days of
                                                                                                                                                use.

                                                                                                                                                For most purposes, regular water changes will suffice to remove what the
                                                                                                                                                carbon will remove.

                                                                                                                                                The problem with carbon is that once its capacity has been used it will
                                                                                                                                                begin to give off what it has captured, sometimes in a more toxic
                                                                                                                                                combination that was originally in the tank.


                                                                                                                                                \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 11:21 AM
                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: so what do i do?



                                                                                                                                                Rachel, Going by your description of whats happening, I'm positive
                                                                                                                                                that it has to be the new carbon canister that is darkening the water.
                                                                                                                                                It seems like the new canister has a lot of powdered carbon in it
                                                                                                                                                probably coating the larger carbon pieces. Do not use the other new
                                                                                                                                                canister; it will just make things worse. Looks like the dark water is
                                                                                                                                                a result of suspended carbon particles, some of which may settle out in
                                                                                                                                                time, but will only get stirred up again when you change water. You
                                                                                                                                                don't really need these carbon canisters, especially if you are doing
                                                                                                                                                water changes. While Pat may be correct, I've always been under the
                                                                                                                                                impression that activated carbon is good for about 30 days or so. As
                                                                                                                                                some of these canisters can be opened, if you still want the carbon
                                                                                                                                                filtration, try getting a small box of carbon from your lfs and briefly
                                                                                                                                                but thoroughly rinse a small portion to load into your canister, if
                                                                                                                                                possible. To get rid of the dark water, I believe you'll have to make
                                                                                                                                                several water changes. Perhaps a fine-pore sponge filter may help
                                                                                                                                                also. Ray
                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > so what do i do about the carbon filter. im kind of wary of keeping
                                                                                                                                                my
                                                                                                                                                > fish in there. should i try the other filter? (it was a 2 pack)
                                                                                                                                                > if so how should i treat the filter before i put it in?






                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10663 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: I REALLY need help here...pleeease
                                                                                                                                                Parasite? 
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                From: Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...>
                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                Sent: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:58:29 -0500
                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] I REALLY need help here...pleeease

                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                NOW I see the other BP has a pale slimy thing hanging out of his right gill
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10664 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: I REALLY need help here...pleeease
                                                                                                                                                if there is something hanging on it is a parasite... right now I am too ill to look for answers for you but I am sure that someone will be able to tell you... maybe a fluke tapeworm.. get something that is for parasites as far as I know Shannon

                                                                                                                                                The blood parrot is still puffy around the “face”.  His eyes are not puffy, just around  his eyes.  He swims crooked as well.  NOW I see the other BP has a pale slimy thing hanging out of his right gill.  WHAT is THIS?!  I can’t find anything on the net that resembles this stuff.  I want to treat them but with WHAT?  It doesn’t appear to be dropsy but it might be early stages?  There isn’t anything that says just what the early stages are, just that if the scales stick out it’s too late.  No scales are out but I don’t want to ignore what’s going on here.

                                                                                                                                                Any help at all, ple------ase?

                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10665 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Kosher salt good or bad?
                                                                                                                                                Thank you Ray

                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                From: "Ray Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...>
                                                                                                                                                To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 12:26 PM
                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Kosher salt good or bad?


                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Yes, we covered this many times over and don't really need to go over
                                                                                                                                                > it again. Why beat a dead horse!?!? The addition of salt is a
                                                                                                                                                > matter of personal choice, but is not really needed. There are rare
                                                                                                                                                > occassions, such as this, where it has its uses, otherwise its
                                                                                                                                                > unnecessary. Ray
                                                                                                                                                > \
                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas Munro" <nmunro@q...>
                                                                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >> I think we have covered this but i'll ask any ways, should i add
                                                                                                                                                >> this kosher salt to my tank? and is that the general concensus?
                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                >> > I think its best in this case to right now add and maintain 1 tbs
                                                                                                                                                >> > of Kosher salt per five gallons, as some people normally do
                                                                                                                                                >> > anyway. The salt will help stop most minor infections before
                                                                                                                                                >> > they start.
                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                >> ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                >> From: "Ray Wetzel" <sevenspringss@w...>
                                                                                                                                                >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                >> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:47 AM
                                                                                                                                                >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ailing? Or Lazy?
                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                >> >
                                                                                                                                                >> >
                                                                                                                                                >> > No this will not kill the fish, but its doubtful that it will
                                                                                                                                                > ever swim
                                                                                                                                                >> > normally again. If you can figure a way to tie some kind of
                                                                                                                                                > float to
                                                                                                                                                >> > her, great! That might help; you might have to punch a hole in
                                                                                                                                                > the top
                                                                                                                                                >> > (Dorsal) fin to run a string though. As long as it eats
                                                                                                                                                > regularly and
                                                                                                                                                >> > does not get picked on by other tankmates, it should be alright.
                                                                                                                                                > There
                                                                                                                                                >> > is always the possibility though, that laying on its side as it
                                                                                                                                                > does
                                                                                                                                                >> > may wipe away the protective slime coating on the gravel which may
                                                                                                                                                >> > start a fungus infection, or a cloudy eye. If caught right away,
                                                                                                                                                > okay,
                                                                                                                                                >> > but if not, a secondary infection could occure where bacteria
                                                                                                                                                > could
                                                                                                                                                >> > get into the skin or eye, which could lead to its downfall, as it
                                                                                                                                                > could
                                                                                                                                                >> > then lose an eye. I think its best in this case to right now add
                                                                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                                                                >> > maintain 1 tbs of Kosher salt per five gallons, as some people
                                                                                                                                                > normally
                                                                                                                                                >> > do anyway. The salt will help stop most minor infections before
                                                                                                                                                > they
                                                                                                                                                >> > start. Ray
                                                                                                                                                >> > \
                                                                                                                                                >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cynthia brennemann"
                                                                                                                                                >> > <brennewoman@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >> >>
                                                                                                                                                >> >> Is this go ing to kill the fish? Or is there something I can do
                                                                                                                                                > to
                                                                                                                                                >> >> help her swim better? Maybe tie a little floatie to her?
                                                                                                                                                >> >>
                                                                                                                                                >> >> > While I cannot tell you exactly why, I am sorry to have to
                                                                                                                                                > tell you
                                                                                                                                                >> >> > that, for whatever reason, it appears as if the swim bladder
                                                                                                                                                > has
                                                                                                                                                >> > been
                                                                                                                                                >> >> > damaged at some point. Unfortunately, it is mozt doubtful
                                                                                                                                                > that she
                                                                                                                                                >> >> > will recover from this and swim normally again, unless by some
                                                                                                                                                >> >> > miracle (stranger things have happened), but I wouldn't give
                                                                                                                                                > too
                                                                                                                                                >> > much
                                                                                                                                                >> >> > hope. Quite often, its a lack of proper nutrition due to not
                                                                                                                                                >> > eating
                                                                                                                                                >> >> > that brings this on. At least she's eating good, as you say,
                                                                                                                                                > but
                                                                                                                                                >> > its
                                                                                                                                                >> >> > seldom that this condition reverses. Just watch that other
                                                                                                                                                > fish
                                                                                                                                                >> >> > don't pick on her. Ray
                                                                                                                                                >> >
                                                                                                                                                >> >
                                                                                                                                                >> >
                                                                                                                                                >> >
                                                                                                                                                >> >
                                                                                                                                                >> >
                                                                                                                                                >> > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                > thanks
                                                                                                                                                >> > .
                                                                                                                                                >> > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                > important to
                                                                                                                                                >> > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                > modify the
                                                                                                                                                >> > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                > Thank You
                                                                                                                                                >> > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                >> >
                                                                                                                                                >> >
                                                                                                                                                >> >
                                                                                                                                                >> >
                                                                                                                                                >> >
                                                                                                                                                >> >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10666 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                Angela,

                                                                                                                                                As I mentioned a bit earlier to Rachel, in another thread, carbon should
                                                                                                                                                only be used in specific instances where chemical filtration may be
                                                                                                                                                warranted. There is no real way to judge when the efficacy of the carbon
                                                                                                                                                filter drops to an unacceptable level. It depends on the amount of carbon
                                                                                                                                                being used along with the load of chemicals it is being asked to remove. In
                                                                                                                                                some cases, one day may be more than it takes, while in others, the three
                                                                                                                                                months you mention may well be within its limits.

                                                                                                                                                Contrary to what Paul has stated, once the carbon has been used up, i.e.
                                                                                                                                                captured all the molecules it can, it has been shown that it will release
                                                                                                                                                these molecules, sometimes in a toxic combination with other molecules, and
                                                                                                                                                it will not serve as a biological filter.

                                                                                                                                                With the light load you have in your tank, I'd suggest removing the carbon
                                                                                                                                                and replacing it with ceramic rings, or another material that can serve as a
                                                                                                                                                biological filter for your tank. Regular water changes should suffice to
                                                                                                                                                handle the removal of chemicals that may be harmful to your fish.

                                                                                                                                                \\Steve//



                                                                                                                                                ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 12:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter


                                                                                                                                                I have a HOT Magnum canister filter which uses carbon and a sponge sleeve in
                                                                                                                                                the filter. Is that ok? The guy I got the tank and stuff from told me to
                                                                                                                                                change the carbon every 3 months, but that he hadn't changed it recently. I
                                                                                                                                                rinse the sponge sleeve monthly, when should I change the carbon?

                                                                                                                                                Angela


                                                                                                                                                -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                Rachel, Going by your description of whats happening, I'm positive
                                                                                                                                                that it has to be the new carbon canister that is darkening the
                                                                                                                                                water.
                                                                                                                                                It seems like the new canister has a lot of powdered carbon in it
                                                                                                                                                probably coating the larger carbon pieces. Do not use the other new

                                                                                                                                                canister; it will just make things worse. Looks like the dark water
                                                                                                                                                is
                                                                                                                                                a result of suspended carbon particles, some of which may settle out
                                                                                                                                                in
                                                                                                                                                time, but will only get stirred up again when you change water. You

                                                                                                                                                don't really need these carbon canisters, especially if you are
                                                                                                                                                doing
                                                                                                                                                water changes. While Pat may be correct, I've always been under the

                                                                                                                                                impression that activated carbon is good for about 30 days or so.
                                                                                                                                                As
                                                                                                                                                some of these canisters can be opened, if you still want the carbon
                                                                                                                                                filtration, try getting a small box of carbon from your lfs and
                                                                                                                                                briefly
                                                                                                                                                but thoroughly rinse a small portion to load into your canister, if
                                                                                                                                                possible. To get rid of the dark water, I believe you'll have to
                                                                                                                                                make
                                                                                                                                                several water changes. Perhaps a fine-pore sponge filter may help
                                                                                                                                                also. Ray
                                                                                                                                                \

                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > so what do i do about the carbon filter. im kind of wary of
                                                                                                                                                keeping
                                                                                                                                                my
                                                                                                                                                > fish in there. should i try the other filter? (it was a 2 pack)
                                                                                                                                                > if so how should i treat the filter before i put it in?
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10667 From: Amalthea Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: I REALLY need help here...pleeease
                                                                                                                                                sounds like a parasite. maybe gill flukes?
                                                                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                                                                Bored? Never Fear!
                                                                                                                                                http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
                                                                                                                                                On Apr 25, 2005, at 10:58 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                                > The blood parrot is still puffy around the “face”.  His eyes are not
                                                                                                                                                > puffy, just around  his eyes.  He swims crooked as well.  NOW I see
                                                                                                                                                > the other BP has a pale slimy thing hanging out of his right gill.
                                                                                                                                                >  WHAT is THIS?!  I can’t find anything on the net that resembles this
                                                                                                                                                > stuff.  I want to treat them but with WHAT?  It doesn’t appear to be
                                                                                                                                                > dropsy but it might be early stages?  There isn’t anything that says
                                                                                                                                                > just what the early stages are, just that if the scales stick out it’s
                                                                                                                                                > too late.  No scales are out but I don’t want to ignore what’s going
                                                                                                                                                > on here.
                                                                                                                                                > Any help at all, ple------ase?
                                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 10668 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Blood Parrot Large Pics
                                                                                                                                                Attachments :

                                                                                                                                                  Here are the best I can get.  

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  This is the white part of his right gill.  It hangs over his gill like an extra flap of skin.

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Here is the white again, you can see it outlining his gill here.

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  And here is a picture of the left eye with the whitish puff under it.  This is the only one the camera captures, they are pretty subtle.  Help?  (I have larger pictures if you’d like them.)

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                   

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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10669 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I REALLY need help here...pleeease
                                                                                                                                                  Without actually seeing the fish its hard to say what's going on. Is
                                                                                                                                                  there any way you could post a picture? In the meantime, we'll have to
                                                                                                                                                  work in generalities, with nothing else definite to go by. First of
                                                                                                                                                  all, I presume you've done a major water change, as I seem to recall
                                                                                                                                                  your saying yourself that it really needed it. I gather you have test
                                                                                                                                                  kits or you could not have known this -- what are the parameters now
                                                                                                                                                  regarding ammonia and nitrites? If near zero, okay, otherwise change
                                                                                                                                                  out more water or ANY treatment is useless. Now, although I am not an
                                                                                                                                                  advocate of the use of salt, I do maintain that it has its uses. The
                                                                                                                                                  addition of Kosher salt can be very beneficial in many such cases such
                                                                                                                                                  as this and is seldom (I would tend to say never) harmful, if done
                                                                                                                                                  slowly. I would start by adding Kosher salt to the solution of .3%
                                                                                                                                                  (point three percent -- three tenths of a percent), after correcting
                                                                                                                                                  your water. This is equivalent to 2.4 tsp salt per gallon. Introduce
                                                                                                                                                  this total amount to the aquarium over a period of three days, not all
                                                                                                                                                  at once (your tank gallonage times 2.4, divided by 3 will tell you how
                                                                                                                                                  much to use each of the three days). Your description of his swimming
                                                                                                                                                  sounds more like a swim bladder problem rather than Dropsy (a liver
                                                                                                                                                  problem). Still, you want to get antibiotics internally. Kanamycin is
                                                                                                                                                  one of the few antibiotics that are absorbed through the skin; I would
                                                                                                                                                  go with that, barring things unforseen. Can't figure out what that
                                                                                                                                                  slimy thing is sticking out of his right gill is, without seeing it.
                                                                                                                                                  Could be a parasite. Could be a damaged gill raker from them horsing
                                                                                                                                                  around. Could just be excess mucus, possibly from a gill infection,
                                                                                                                                                  but if that were the case you would usually see the fish flashing
                                                                                                                                                  (scraping) against the bottom. In any case the salt and antibiotic
                                                                                                                                                  should be somewhat effective here. I could recommend two other
                                                                                                                                                  excellent medications for the external problems, but I won't -- you
                                                                                                                                                  need a good one internally as well. Other than this, I find it
                                                                                                                                                  difficult not knowing precisely what's happening, to know how to tell
                                                                                                                                                  you how to procede further without my knowing more. These procedures
                                                                                                                                                  should be of some help in most cases of this description; hopefully
                                                                                                                                                  someone else may be able to add more. Ray
                                                                                                                                                  \ -
                                                                                                                                                  -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore" <amjmail@c...>
                                                                                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > The blood parrot is still puffy around the "face". His eyes are not
                                                                                                                                                  > puffy, just around his eyes. He swims crooked as well. NOW I see
                                                                                                                                                  the
                                                                                                                                                  > other BP has a pale slimy thing hanging out of his right gill. WHAT
                                                                                                                                                  is
                                                                                                                                                  > THIS?! I can't find anything on the net that resembles this stuff. I
                                                                                                                                                  > want to treat them but with WHAT? It doesn't appear to be dropsy but
                                                                                                                                                  it
                                                                                                                                                  > might be early stages? There isn't anything that says just what the
                                                                                                                                                  > early stages are, just that if the scales stick out it's too late. No
                                                                                                                                                  > scales are out but I don't want to ignore what's going on here.
                                                                                                                                                  > Any help at all, ple------ase?
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10670 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Blood Parrot Large Pics
                                                                                                                                                  Can certainly see the left eye with its puffiness. From here, both
                                                                                                                                                  this area and the outlining of the gill cover look like discolored
                                                                                                                                                  skin areas, serious enough, but does not get across the fact that the
                                                                                                                                                  white part of his gill actually hangs over his gill like an extra
                                                                                                                                                  part. Am really doubting that its a parasite -- it would have to be
                                                                                                                                                  introduced somehow. Can't really say what it is, although both Furan
                                                                                                                                                  2 (containing nitrafurazone, furazolidone and methylene trihydrate)
                                                                                                                                                  and Fungus Eliminator (containing nitrofurazone, furazolidone and
                                                                                                                                                  potassium dichromate -- and salt) would be effective in similar
                                                                                                                                                  looking cases, although I'm not sure if they're skin-absorbant as
                                                                                                                                                  well. The kanamycin (Kanacyn) should be equally effective, in
                                                                                                                                                  similar cases and also treats internally (skin absorbant). I still
                                                                                                                                                  can't say what this is, however, unless you want to try the
                                                                                                                                                  treatments outlined (for similar maladies) in these posts, for lack
                                                                                                                                                  of any other suggestions forthcoming, and hope for the best. Have
                                                                                                                                                  nothing else to suggest, not having been confronted with this one,
                                                                                                                                                  although the salt in itself should at least be an effective start.
                                                                                                                                                  Anyone else care to venture a possible diagnosis/treatment? Ray
                                                                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > Here are the best I can get.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > This is the white part of his right gill. It hangs over his gill
                                                                                                                                                  like
                                                                                                                                                  > an extra flap of skin.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Here is the white again, you can see it outlining his gill here.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > And here is a picture of the left eye with the whitish puff under
                                                                                                                                                  it.
                                                                                                                                                  > This is the only one the camera captures, they are pretty subtle.
                                                                                                                                                  Help?
                                                                                                                                                  > (I have larger pictures if you'd like them.)
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                  Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10671 From: The Doctor Date: 4/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I REALLY need help here...pleeease
                                                                                                                                                  Check this page:
                                                                                                                                                  http://home.earthlink.net/~cambi/ailments.html

                                                                                                                                                  Not sure from your description, and hard to see from the pix, but it could
                                                                                                                                                  be Gill Flukes, Anchor Worms, or even Skin Flukes (or ???).


                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                  From: "Dane & Leslie Moore" <amjmail@...>
                                                                                                                                                  To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>;
                                                                                                                                                  <naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 7:58 PM
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] I REALLY need help here...pleeease


                                                                                                                                                  > other BP has a pale slimy thing hanging out of his right gill. WHAT is
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10672 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Blood Parrot: Puffy face and swims sideways (& Filter Question)

                                                                                                                                                  Why do you clean the filter whenever there is an ammonia spike? You are not helping the bacteria settle in any way. If ammonia is very high then do another 70% water change to get rid of it and add some salt (1tsp per 5 gallons).

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Nim

                                                                                                                                                  Ps: I clean my filters once in 6 months

                                                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dane & Leslie Moore
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: 26 April 2005 02:12
                                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ; naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Blood Parrot: Puffy face and swims sideways (& Filter Question)

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  ACK!

                                                                                                                                                  His face puffed up this morning and now he swimming at an angle to his right.  He looks like he ate something he’s allergic to. 

                                                                                                                                                  The ammonia was not good so I did a 45% water change & cleaned the filter. 

                                                                                                                                                  I’m wondering on the quality of my filter also.  It is an EHEIM something or other with a pump that floats up & down then sprays the water back in the top.  (Can’t tell I’m a newbie eh?)  =)

                                                                                                                                                  We were given a chemical filter but don’t have it up and running yet.  Should I get that going?  If yes, how and what good do they do?

                                                                                                                                                  Also, how do you clean the inside of these EHEIM filters?

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                   



                                                                                                                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                  .
                                                                                                                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10673 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Ailing? Or Lazy?
                                                                                                                                                  Oh, poor baby. Will it hurt much to punch a hole through her dorsal
                                                                                                                                                  fin? We have some styrofoam I could use to float her with. I've been
                                                                                                                                                  maintaining salt in the tank since I started it, so that shouldn't be a
                                                                                                                                                  problem...hopefully. I'll add some stress coat after I put the floaty
                                                                                                                                                  on her.

                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10674 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  Now I don't know what to do.  Does anyone else have a HOT Magnum filter?  Do you use the carbon in it?  If not, what do you use?  I'm very new at fishkeeping, so the varying opinions in this issue make it hard to decide what to do.
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Angela
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                  Angela,

                                                                                                                                                  As I mentioned a bit earlier to Rachel, in another thread, carbon should
                                                                                                                                                  only be used in specific instances where chemical filtration may be
                                                                                                                                                  warranted. There is no real way to judge when the efficacy of the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  filter drops to an unacceptable level. It depends on the amount of carbon
                                                                                                                                                  being used along with the load of chemicals it is being asked to remove. In
                                                                                                                                                  some cases, one day may be more than it takes, while in others, the three
                                                                                                                                                  months you mention may well be within its limits.

                                                                                                                                                  Contrary to what Paul has stated, once the carbon has been used up, i.e.
                                                                                                                                                  captured all the molecules it can, it has been shown that it will release
                                                                                                                                                  these molecules, sometimes in a toxic combination with other molecules, and
                                                                                                                                                  it will not serve as a biological filter.

                                                                                                                                                  With the light load you have in your tank, I'd suggest removing the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  and replacing it with ceramic rings, or another material that can serve as a
                                                                                                                                                  biological filter for your tank. Regular water changes should suffice to
                                                                                                                                                  handle the removal of chemicals that may be harmful to your fish.

                                                                                                                                                  \\Steve//



                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10675 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Ailing? Or Lazy?
                                                                                                                                                  No, it shouldn't hurt much at all. Best area to do this is in
                                                                                                                                                  between the tall dorsal (top) fin rays. You have to be careful
                                                                                                                                                  (which I gather you would be anyway) not to split the fin which can
                                                                                                                                                  easily happen and which sometimes happens when they fight. It should
                                                                                                                                                  heal if it splits, but in the meantime it defeats your purpose. With
                                                                                                                                                  the help of the float, lets hope she can conserve enough strength so
                                                                                                                                                  that she'll regain some use of her swim bladder. Only time will
                                                                                                                                                  tell. Stress coat will help, especially after being handled. Ray
                                                                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cynthia brennemann"
                                                                                                                                                  <brennewoman@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Oh, poor baby. Will it hurt much to punch a hole through her
                                                                                                                                                  dorsal
                                                                                                                                                  > fin? We have some styrofoam I could use to float her with. I've
                                                                                                                                                  been
                                                                                                                                                  > maintaining salt in the tank since I started it, so that shouldn't
                                                                                                                                                  be a
                                                                                                                                                  > problem...hopefully. I'll add some stress coat after I put the
                                                                                                                                                  floaty
                                                                                                                                                  > on her.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10676 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Table salt

                                                                                                                                                  All I have is table salt to add.  Is this OK or do I need to wait until I can get to LFS?  A simple yes this is OK or No it’s not will suffice.  

                                                                                                                                                  I’ve seen how some get about salt around here.  =)

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  There is also one for Little Rock

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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10677 From: Ron Hansen Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: FW: new tank
                                                                                                                                                  kb1dva said:
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > The tank was outside upside down I have cleaned it using a razor blade and
                                                                                                                                                  > then rinsing with hot water is that good enough. I have no idea what was
                                                                                                                                                  > in
                                                                                                                                                  > the tank or how long it was outside
                                                                                                                                                  That should be plenty, but if you are concerned, you can use a weak
                                                                                                                                                  solution of water and vinegar or water and bleach. Be sure to THOROUGHLY
                                                                                                                                                  rinse the tank afterwards and let it air dry completely (preferably in the
                                                                                                                                                  sun).


                                                                                                                                                  > The filter is marginal it will handle up to 70 gallons should I replace it
                                                                                                                                                  > now or wait.
                                                                                                                                                  There is nothing wrong with using two filters together. You can add a
                                                                                                                                                  second smaller filter to take up the slack (to save money). Remember that
                                                                                                                                                  you can never over-filter, but you can easily under-filter, so you can buy
                                                                                                                                                  a bigger second filter.

                                                                                                                                                  Other advantages are that you can alternate cleanings. Clean one filter
                                                                                                                                                  one week and the other the next. This keeps the shocking of the biofilter
                                                                                                                                                  to a minimum.
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10678 From: TankGurl Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  On 4/26/05, Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK or do I need to wait until I
                                                                                                                                                  > can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK or No it's not will suffice.

                                                                                                                                                  Try kosher salt or sea salt. I believe table salt has additives that
                                                                                                                                                  might cause some issues.

                                                                                                                                                  Kelly
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10679 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Getting rid of the FIREMOUTH!

                                                                                                                                                  This guy is making me so mad.  I hate having an aggressive tank. 

                                                                                                                                                  He stays under his log and puffs up at anyone that comes near then chases them biting them like crazy along the way.  If he does wander out from his log, then my big blood parrot chases him like crazy until he is forced back under his log.  He’s now earned the name “the troll.”

                                                                                                                                                  I’m seriously thinking of taking him to the LFS.  I just don’t want him to end up in the wrong type of tank where someone will end up flushing him out of frustration.

                                                                                                                                                  Any ideas how to make this tank a little more harmonic? 

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  When I mess up the Blood parrots hole, he is less aggressive to the others but still freaks when someone nears his used-to-be hole.

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Why can’t they all just get along?  =)

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10680 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Getting rid of the FIREMOUTH!
                                                                                                                                                  because they are agressive natured animals taht do not
                                                                                                                                                  expressly belong together. lol
                                                                                                                                                  --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...>
                                                                                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > This guy is making me so mad. I hate having an
                                                                                                                                                  > aggressive tank.
                                                                                                                                                  > He stays under his log and puffs up at anyone that
                                                                                                                                                  > comes near then
                                                                                                                                                  > chases them biting them like crazy along the way.
                                                                                                                                                  > If he does wander out
                                                                                                                                                  > from his log, then my big blood parrot chases him
                                                                                                                                                  > like crazy until he is
                                                                                                                                                  > forced back under his log. He's now earned the name
                                                                                                                                                  > "the troll."
                                                                                                                                                  > I'm seriously thinking of taking him to the LFS. I
                                                                                                                                                  > just don't want him
                                                                                                                                                  > to end up in the wrong type of tank where someone
                                                                                                                                                  > will end up flushing
                                                                                                                                                  > him out of frustration.
                                                                                                                                                  > Any ideas how to make this tank a little more
                                                                                                                                                  > harmonic?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > When I mess up the Blood parrots hole, he is less
                                                                                                                                                  > aggressive to the
                                                                                                                                                  > others but still freaks when someone nears his
                                                                                                                                                  > used-to-be hole.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Why can't they all just get along? =)
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join
                                                                                                                                                  > the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >

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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10681 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  no not ok....has caking agents that are bad for the
                                                                                                                                                  fish
                                                                                                                                                  --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...>
                                                                                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK or do I
                                                                                                                                                  > need to wait until
                                                                                                                                                  > I can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK or No
                                                                                                                                                  > it's not will suffice.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > I've seen how some get about salt around here. =)
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join
                                                                                                                                                  > the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >

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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10682 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  No, not okay (because of caking agents -- & iodine), but go to the
                                                                                                                                                  supermarket (for Kosher salt) instead of the lfs; its a lot cheaper.
                                                                                                                                                  Ray
                                                                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK or do I need to wait
                                                                                                                                                  until
                                                                                                                                                  > I can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK or No it's not will
                                                                                                                                                  suffice.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > I've seen how some get about salt around here. =)
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10683 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  in verey day aquarium use, it is used to clarify the
                                                                                                                                                  water and deodorize the tank. of course it should be
                                                                                                                                                  replaced after absorbing meds and chemicals, but for
                                                                                                                                                  odor and clarity use in a stable aquarium it is 30
                                                                                                                                                  days
                                                                                                                                                  --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > As I mentioned a bit earlier to Rachel, in another
                                                                                                                                                  > thread, carbon should
                                                                                                                                                  > only be used in specific instances where chemical
                                                                                                                                                  > filtration may be
                                                                                                                                                  > warranted. There is no real way to judge when the
                                                                                                                                                  > efficacy of the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > filter drops to an unacceptable level. It depends on
                                                                                                                                                  > the amount of carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > being used along with the load of chemicals it is
                                                                                                                                                  > being asked to remove. In
                                                                                                                                                  > some cases, one day may be more than it takes, while
                                                                                                                                                  > in others, the three
                                                                                                                                                  > months you mention may well be within its limits.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Contrary to what Paul has stated, once the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > has been used up, i.e.
                                                                                                                                                  > captured all the molecules it can, it has been shown
                                                                                                                                                  > that it will release
                                                                                                                                                  > these molecules, sometimes in a toxic combination
                                                                                                                                                  > with other molecules, and
                                                                                                                                                  > it will not serve as a biological filter.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > With the light load you have in your tank, I'd
                                                                                                                                                  > suggest removing the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > and replacing it with ceramic rings, or another
                                                                                                                                                  > material that can serve as a
                                                                                                                                                  > biological filter for your tank. Regular water
                                                                                                                                                  > changes should suffice to
                                                                                                                                                  > handle the removal of chemicals that may be harmful
                                                                                                                                                  > to your fish.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 12:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > I have a HOT Magnum canister filter which uses
                                                                                                                                                  > carbon and a sponge sleeve in
                                                                                                                                                  > the filter. Is that ok? The guy I got the tank and
                                                                                                                                                  > stuff from told me to
                                                                                                                                                  > change the carbon every 3 months, but that he hadn't
                                                                                                                                                  > changed it recently. I
                                                                                                                                                  > rinse the sponge sleeve monthly, when should I
                                                                                                                                                  > change the carbon?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Angela
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Rachel, Going by your description of whats
                                                                                                                                                  > happening, I'm positive
                                                                                                                                                  > that it has to be the new carbon canister that is
                                                                                                                                                  > darkening the
                                                                                                                                                  > water.
                                                                                                                                                  > It seems like the new canister has a lot of
                                                                                                                                                  > powdered carbon in it
                                                                                                                                                  > probably coating the larger carbon pieces. Do not
                                                                                                                                                  > use the other new
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > canister; it will just make things worse. Looks
                                                                                                                                                  > like the dark water
                                                                                                                                                  > is
                                                                                                                                                  > a result of suspended carbon particles, some of
                                                                                                                                                  > which may settle out
                                                                                                                                                  > in
                                                                                                                                                  > time, but will only get stirred up again when you
                                                                                                                                                  > change water. You
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > don't really need these carbon canisters,
                                                                                                                                                  > especially if you are
                                                                                                                                                  > doing
                                                                                                                                                  > water changes. While Pat may be correct, I've
                                                                                                                                                  > always been under the
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > impression that activated carbon is good for about
                                                                                                                                                  > 30 days or so.
                                                                                                                                                  > As
                                                                                                                                                  > some of these canisters can be opened, if you still
                                                                                                                                                  > want the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > filtration, try getting a small box of carbon from
                                                                                                                                                  > your lfs and
                                                                                                                                                  > briefly
                                                                                                                                                  > but thoroughly rinse a small portion to load into
                                                                                                                                                  > your canister, if
                                                                                                                                                  > possible. To get rid of the dark water, I believe
                                                                                                                                                  > you'll have to
                                                                                                                                                  > make
                                                                                                                                                  > several water changes. Perhaps a fine-pore sponge
                                                                                                                                                  > filter may help
                                                                                                                                                  > also. Ray
                                                                                                                                                  > \
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel"
                                                                                                                                                  > <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                  > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > so what do i do about the carbon filter. im kind
                                                                                                                                                  > of wary of
                                                                                                                                                  > keeping
                                                                                                                                                  > my
                                                                                                                                                  > > fish in there. should i try the other filter? (it
                                                                                                                                                  > was a 2 pack)
                                                                                                                                                  > > if so how should i treat the filter before i put
                                                                                                                                                  > it in?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >

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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10684 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: wild snails
                                                                                                                                                  in many states, it is illegal to buy or sell any
                                                                                                                                                  native creature, simply for the fear of domesticating
                                                                                                                                                  it to the point of endangerment/extinction. in the
                                                                                                                                                  case of the ramshorn, i do not belive that they are
                                                                                                                                                  native to the U.S. persay, but more so in candad.
                                                                                                                                                  they are voracious herbivores, and will desimate a
                                                                                                                                                  non-native ecosysstem that is not set up to handle
                                                                                                                                                  them. that is why they have been banned in ca
                                                                                                                                                  --- foxcreekhomestead <foxcreek@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > What is the difference between the native north
                                                                                                                                                  > american ramshorn
                                                                                                                                                  > snails and the ones you buy in the pet store? Is
                                                                                                                                                  > there even a
                                                                                                                                                  > difference? If there is why don't they sell more
                                                                                                                                                  > native species in pet
                                                                                                                                                  > stores?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                  > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > > as long as you do not have live plants that you
                                                                                                                                                  > are
                                                                                                                                                  > > attached to, they won't hurt anything, but you
                                                                                                                                                  > will
                                                                                                                                                  > > have hundreds quickly
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >

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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10685 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Getting rid of the FIREMOUTH!
                                                                                                                                                  They are, by nature, territorial (which makes them aggressive when
                                                                                                                                                  another fish enters their territory). The two main and very
                                                                                                                                                  important reasons for this is to establish a more or less permanent
                                                                                                                                                  breeding and/or feeding site to call their own. A very important
                                                                                                                                                  behavior in their success as a fish family, if you think about it.
                                                                                                                                                  Ray
                                                                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > This guy is making me so mad. I hate having an aggressive tank.
                                                                                                                                                  > He stays under his log and puffs up at anyone that comes near then
                                                                                                                                                  > chases them biting them like crazy along the way. If he does
                                                                                                                                                  wander out
                                                                                                                                                  > from his log, then my big blood parrot chases him like crazy until
                                                                                                                                                  he is
                                                                                                                                                  > forced back under his log. He's now earned the name "the troll."
                                                                                                                                                  > I'm seriously thinking of taking him to the LFS. I just don't want
                                                                                                                                                  him
                                                                                                                                                  > to end up in the wrong type of tank where someone will end up
                                                                                                                                                  flushing
                                                                                                                                                  > him out of frustration.
                                                                                                                                                  > Any ideas how to make this tank a little more harmonic?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > When I mess up the Blood parrots hole, he is less aggressive to the
                                                                                                                                                  > others but still freaks when someone nears his used-to-be hole.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Why can't they all just get along? =)
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                  Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10686 From: paul711969 Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Hello all
                                                                                                                                                  I would like to introduce myself to you all.
                                                                                                                                                  My name is paul im 37 yrs old and been keeping fish for a number of
                                                                                                                                                  years and run a forum as well as you can never have to many as more
                                                                                                                                                  information you get the better you can learn


                                                                                                                                                  http://koitalk.12.freebb.com
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10687 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Hello all

                                                                                                                                                  Welcome to the group Paul...

                                                                                                                                                  rob
                                                                                                                                                  Indiana
                                                                                                                                                  USA

                                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 4/26/2005 2:10:24 PM US Eastern Standard Time, paul.j.w@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                  would like to introduce myself to you all.
                                                                                                                                                  My name is paul im 37 yrs old and been keeping fish for a number of
                                                                                                                                                  years and run a forum as well as you can never have to many as more
                                                                                                                                                  information you get the better you can learn




                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10688 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: think it's flukes

                                                                                                                                                  What the heck causes this?  His gills have white on them and I can see into his gills when he breaths. And it is RED RED RED and inflamed looking.  Poor guy!  How’d he get this?  And is it contagious?

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10689 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  Yes, table salt is fine.
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                  All I have is table salt to add.  Is this OK or do I need to wait until I can get to LFS?  A simple yes this is OK or No it's not will suffice.
                                                                                                                                                  Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10690 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Table salt

                                                                                                                                                  Lol Patrick. That was a very bold statement. I usually sit quiet on this subject coz I also feel that “YES, TABLE SALT IS FINE TOO“.

                                                                                                                                                  I had used table salt in my early days for over 10 years without any ill effects.

                                                                                                                                                  Nim

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: 26 April 2005 21:48
                                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Table salt

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Yes, table salt is fine.

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Patrick, an American Fish Guy.

                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                                  All I have is table salt to add.  Is this OK or do I need to wait until I can get to LFS?  A simple yes this is OK or No it's not will suffice.

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

                                                                                                                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                  .
                                                                                                                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10691 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  Okay guys, you win. I know table salt can be used "in a pinch" (pun
                                                                                                                                                  intended), but I guess I just prefer Kosher salt, as it has no
                                                                                                                                                  impurities. Why add stuff unnecessarily if you don't have to? Ray
                                                                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > Lol Patrick. That was a very bold statement. I usually sit quiet on
                                                                                                                                                  this
                                                                                                                                                  > subject coz I also feel that "YES, TABLE SALT IS FINE TOO".
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > I had used table salt in my early days for over 10 years without
                                                                                                                                                  any ill
                                                                                                                                                  > effects.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Nim
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > _____
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > Behalf Of Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: 26 April 2005 21:48
                                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Yes, table salt is fine.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK or do I need to wait
                                                                                                                                                  until I
                                                                                                                                                  > can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK or No it's not will
                                                                                                                                                  suffice.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > <http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=54475> Add FUN to your
                                                                                                                                                  email -
                                                                                                                                                  > CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                  thanks
                                                                                                                                                  > .
                                                                                                                                                  > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                  important to
                                                                                                                                                  > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                                                  the
                                                                                                                                                  > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                  Thank You
                                                                                                                                                  > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > _____
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                                                                  > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10692 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Table salt

                                                                                                                                                  Is it OK to use with meds?  Malachite green to be specific?

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 4:55 PM
                                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt

                                                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                                                  Okay guys, you win.  I know table salt can be used "in a pinch" (pun
                                                                                                                                                  intended), but I guess I just prefer Kosher salt, as it has no
                                                                                                                                                  impurities.  Why add stuff unnecessarily if you don't have to?  Ray 
                                                                                                                                                  \                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > Lol Patrick. That was a very bold statement. I usually sit quiet on
                                                                                                                                                  this
                                                                                                                                                  > subject coz I also feel that "YES, TABLE SALT IS FINE TOO".
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > I had used table salt in my early days for over 10 years without
                                                                                                                                                  any ill
                                                                                                                                                  > effects.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Nim
                                                                                                                                                  >

                                                                                                                                                  >

                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >   _____ 
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > Behalf Of Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: 26 April 2005 21:48
                                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  >

                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Yes, table salt is fine.
                                                                                                                                                  >

                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > All I have is table salt to add.  Is this OK or do I need to wait
                                                                                                                                                  until I
                                                                                                                                                  > can get to LFS?  A simple yes this is OK or No it's not will
                                                                                                                                                  suffice.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >

                                                                                                                                                  >

                                                                                                                                                  >

                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >  <http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=54475> Add FUN to your
                                                                                                                                                  email -
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                                                                                                                                                  > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we
                                                                                                                                                  Thank You
                                                                                                                                                  > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10693 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: think it's flukes
                                                                                                                                                  His gill COVERS have white on them; not functionally connected to his
                                                                                                                                                  gills, but more of a "protective plate" (covering). His gills should
                                                                                                                                                  be RED RED RED -- normal coloration. If they were PALE RED, or PINK
                                                                                                                                                  PINK PINK and mucus coated you would have something to worry about as
                                                                                                                                                  that's the color the gills take on when infected by gill flukes. Not
                                                                                                                                                  to say that you don't have a cause for worry, but you can definitely
                                                                                                                                                  rule that out, thank goodness. Still have no answer though, but I hope
                                                                                                                                                  you're at least trying the salt treatment. Ray
                                                                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > What the heck causes this? His gills have white on them and I can see
                                                                                                                                                  > into his gills when he breaths. And it is RED RED RED and inflamed
                                                                                                                                                  > looking. Poor guy! How'd he get this? And is it contagious?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10694 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  :)  Isn't kosher cheaper than table salt, too?  I tested table salt once and there were no problem after a week with 1 tsp / gallon, but normally I use pickling salt, which I have a lot of for pickling, and it is also pure.
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                  Okay guys, you win.  I know table salt can be used "in a pinch" (pun
                                                                                                                                                  intended), but I guess I just prefer Kosher salt, as it has no
                                                                                                                                                  impurities.  Why add stuff unnecessarily if you don't have to?  Ray
                                                                                                                                                  Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10695 From: paul711969 Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: think it's flukes
                                                                                                                                                  Yes flukes are contageous and if one has it then more than likly they
                                                                                                                                                  all will, is it gill or skin flukes, have you scraped the fish to know
                                                                                                                                                  its flukes.










                                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > What the heck causes this? His gills have white on them and I can see
                                                                                                                                                  > into his gills when he breaths. And it is RED RED RED and inflamed
                                                                                                                                                  > looking. Poor guy! How'd he get this? And is it contagious?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10696 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: think it's flukes

                                                                                                                                                  Yep trying the salt and he’s been QT’d.  I’m picking up kosher salt tonight.  1 tsp per 5 gal?

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 5:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: think it's flukes

                                                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                                                  His gill COVERS have white on them; not functionally connected to his
                                                                                                                                                  gills, but more of a "protective plate" (covering).  His gills should
                                                                                                                                                  be RED RED RED -- normal coloration.  If they were PALE RED, or PINK
                                                                                                                                                  PINK PINK and mucus coated you would have something to worry about as
                                                                                                                                                  that's the color the gills take on when infected by gill flukes.  Not
                                                                                                                                                  to say that you don't have a cause for worry, but you can definitely
                                                                                                                                                  rule that out, thank goodness.  Still have no answer though, but I hope
                                                                                                                                                  you're at least trying the salt treatment.  Ray                       
                                                                                                                                                  \                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > What the heck causes this?  His gills have white on them and I can see
                                                                                                                                                  > into his gills when he breaths. And it is RED RED RED and inflamed
                                                                                                                                                  > looking.  Poor guy!  How'd he get this?  And is it contagious?

                                                                                                                                                  > Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                  > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/





                                                                                                                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10697 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: think it's flukes

                                                                                                                                                  Scraped the fish?  Ewww  No I haven’t done that.

                                                                                                                                                  It’s something in the gills.  Like an extra flap of skin and his gills are enlarged.  He’s “panting”, breathing heavy.

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of paul711969
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 3:52 PM
                                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: think it's flukes

                                                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                                                  Yes flukes are contageous and if one has it then more than likly they
                                                                                                                                                  all will, is it gill or skin flukes, have you scraped the fish to know
                                                                                                                                                  its flukes.










                                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > What the heck causes this?  His gills have white on them and I can see
                                                                                                                                                  > into his gills when he breaths. And it is RED RED RED and inflamed
                                                                                                                                                  > looking.  Poor guy!  How'd he get this?  And is it contagious?

                                                                                                                                                  > Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                  > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/





                                                                                                                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                  .
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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10698 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: more

                                                                                                                                                  My infected blood parrot, the one with the large gills, is also acting very spastic.  He flips around like a fish would out of water.

                                                                                                                                                  Sigh---------

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10699 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: think it's flukes
                                                                                                                                                  Okay, but 1 tsp per 5 gallons is nothing. Many people normally use 1
                                                                                                                                                  Tbs (tablespoon) per 5 gallons just as regular maintenance. You need
                                                                                                                                                  to add 1 teaspoon per gallon, PER DAY - FOR 3 DAYS -- a total of 3
                                                                                                                                                  teaspoons per gallon, after the 3 day period. Actually a total of 2
                                                                                                                                                  1/2 tsp per gallon should be enough, but 3 tsp per gallon won't
                                                                                                                                                  hurt. Ray
                                                                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > Yep trying the salt and he's been QT'd. I'm picking up kosher salt
                                                                                                                                                  > tonight. 1 tsp per 5 gal?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                  Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                  > On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 5:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: think it's flukes
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > His gill COVERS have white on them; not functionally connected to
                                                                                                                                                  his
                                                                                                                                                  > gills, but more of a "protective plate" (covering). His gills
                                                                                                                                                  should
                                                                                                                                                  > be RED RED RED -- normal coloration. If they were PALE RED, or
                                                                                                                                                  PINK
                                                                                                                                                  > PINK PINK and mucus coated you would have something to worry about
                                                                                                                                                  as
                                                                                                                                                  > that's the color the gills take on when infected by gill flukes.
                                                                                                                                                  Not
                                                                                                                                                  > to say that you don't have a cause for worry, but you can
                                                                                                                                                  definitely
                                                                                                                                                  > rule that out, thank goodness. Still have no answer though, but I
                                                                                                                                                  hope
                                                                                                                                                  > you're at least trying the salt treatment.
                                                                                                                                                  Ray
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  \

                                                                                                                                                  > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > > What the heck causes this? His gills have white on them and I
                                                                                                                                                  can see
                                                                                                                                                  > > into his gills when he breaths. And it is RED RED RED and inflamed
                                                                                                                                                  > > looking. Poor guy! How'd he get this? And is it contagious?
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                  Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                  thanks
                                                                                                                                                  > .
                                                                                                                                                  > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                  important
                                                                                                                                                  > to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                  modify
                                                                                                                                                  > the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                  > Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10700 From: Amalthea Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: more
                                                                                                                                                  that sounds almost like shimmy. you have quarantined these fish away
                                                                                                                                                  from any others, correct?
                                                                                                                                                  amalthea


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                                                                                                                                                  On Apr 26, 2005, at 6:21 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > My infected blood parrot, the one with the large gills, is also acting
                                                                                                                                                  > very spastic.  He flips around like a fish would out of water.
                                                                                                                                                  > Sigh---------
                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10701 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: more

                                                                                                                                                  The one that’s doing this, yes.

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amalthea
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 5:51 PM
                                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] more

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  that sounds almost like shimmy. you have quarantined these fish away from any others, correct?
                                                                                                                                                  amalthea


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                                                                                                                                                  On Apr 26, 2005, at 6:21 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:


                                                                                                                                                  My infected blood parrot, the one with the large gills, is also acting very spastic.  He flips around like a fish would out of water.
                                                                                                                                                  Sigh---------
                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10702 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: more
                                                                                                                                                  Thank you for this insight -- If by what you're saying, I'm guessing
                                                                                                                                                  correctly. By "He flips around like a fish would out of water", do you
                                                                                                                                                  mean that he is scraping, or "flashing" against the bottom, as I had
                                                                                                                                                  asked you last night? If so, yes, this is a sign of Flukes. Flukes is
                                                                                                                                                  a MICROSCOPIC Trematode. This is the reason you were asked if you took
                                                                                                                                                  a scraping -- you would need to put the scraping under a microscope to
                                                                                                                                                  look for the gill flukes. The large extra piece you see hanging out of
                                                                                                                                                  the gill plate is not a "fluke", however, gill flukes will cause the
                                                                                                                                                  gill itself to protrude out of the gill plate, perhaps this is what you
                                                                                                                                                  are seeing. If its fleshy looking and PALE (Pink) Red, it could very
                                                                                                                                                  well be gill flukes, especially if the rest of the gills are PINK. Are
                                                                                                                                                  you absolutely sure that the gills are not PINK, instead of a healthy
                                                                                                                                                  looking RED? If you see any mucus in or around the gills and they are
                                                                                                                                                  PINK, this is a sure sign of flukes. In that case, treat as soon as
                                                                                                                                                  possible with "FLUKE-TABS", made by AQUARIUM PRODUCTS, a very safe and
                                                                                                                                                  effective medication. Do not bother using SALT as Gill Flukes will
                                                                                                                                                  withstand the .3% salt solution you would be using. There is also
                                                                                                                                                  another medication for Flukes called FORMALIN, put out by
                                                                                                                                                  TETRA/PONDCARE. This treatment is a little rougher, but effective.
                                                                                                                                                  If using this, DO NOT even think about using salt. Please re-check
                                                                                                                                                  your fish and get back to me. Also, since the tissue surrounding the
                                                                                                                                                  eye has occurred at this same time, the culprit might be SKIN FLUKES, a
                                                                                                                                                  related disease, which also invades the gills, and is treated in the
                                                                                                                                                  same way. Much of your description of this disease on the fish was
                                                                                                                                                  inadvertantly misleading last night, but we may have a handle on it
                                                                                                                                                  now, just re-check for the gill color and let me know if his "spastic"
                                                                                                                                                  actions resemble my description. Ray
                                                                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > My infected blood parrot, the one with the large gills, is also acting
                                                                                                                                                  > very spastic. He flips around like a fish would out of water.
                                                                                                                                                  > Sigh---------
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10703 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: more

                                                                                                                                                  He just started the spaz thing today, he wasn’t doing this last night or I would mentioned it when you did. 

                                                                                                                                                  The gills inside are most certainly red.  The part sticking outside is white, almost see through it’s so thin.  Like a thin flap of skin just overlapping the gill a little.  And the other side started doing the same thing this morning.

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Back to the spastic behavior:

                                                                                                                                                  I first saw him do this under his log where he is hidden very well.  I could see his tail going wild.  He was laying on his right side, this is the side with the largest inflammation.  It lasted maybe 15-20 secs.

                                                                                                                                                  When I QT’d him, he did it again but not in the gravel this time, just in mid-water.  Almost like he was trying to swim fast to get out, but I don’t think that was it.  It was much jerkier than he usually gets, even when he’s upset.

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 6:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: more

                                                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                                                  Thank you for this insight --  If by what you're saying, I'm guessing
                                                                                                                                                  correctly.  By "He flips around like a fish would out of water", do you
                                                                                                                                                  mean that he is scraping, or "flashing" against the bottom, as I had
                                                                                                                                                  asked you last night?  If so, yes, this is a sign of Flukes.  Flukes is
                                                                                                                                                  a MICROSCOPIC Trematode.  This is the reason you were asked if you took
                                                                                                                                                  a scraping -- you would need to put the scraping under a microscope to
                                                                                                                                                  look for the gill flukes.  The large extra piece you see hanging out of
                                                                                                                                                  the gill plate is not a "fluke", however, gill flukes will cause the
                                                                                                                                                  gill itself to protrude out of the gill plate, perhaps this is what you
                                                                                                                                                  are seeing.  If its fleshy looking and PALE (Pink) Red, it could very
                                                                                                                                                  well be gill flukes, especially if the rest of the gills are PINK.  Are
                                                                                                                                                  you absolutely sure that the gills are not PINK, instead of a healthy
                                                                                                                                                  looking RED?  If you see any mucus in or around the gills and they are
                                                                                                                                                  PINK, this is a sure sign of flukes.  In that case, treat as soon as
                                                                                                                                                  possible with "FLUKE-TABS", made by AQUARIUM PRODUCTS, a very safe and
                                                                                                                                                  effective medication.  Do not bother using SALT as Gill Flukes will
                                                                                                                                                  withstand the .3% salt solution you would be using.  There is also
                                                                                                                                                  another medication for Flukes called FORMALIN, put out by
                                                                                                                                                  TETRA/PONDCARE.   This treatment is a little rougher, but effective. 
                                                                                                                                                  If using this, DO NOT even think about using salt.  Please re-check
                                                                                                                                                  your fish and get back to me.  Also, since the tissue surrounding the
                                                                                                                                                  eye has occurred at this same time, the culprit might be SKIN FLUKES, a
                                                                                                                                                  related disease, which also invades the gills, and is treated in the
                                                                                                                                                  same way.  Much of your description of this disease on the fish was
                                                                                                                                                  inadvertantly misleading last night, but we may have a handle on it
                                                                                                                                                  now, just re-check for the gill color and let me know if his "spastic"
                                                                                                                                                  actions resemble my description.  Ray                                
                                                                                                                                                  \                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > My infected blood parrot, the one with the large gills, is also acting
                                                                                                                                                  > very spastic.  He flips around like a fish would out of water.
                                                                                                                                                  > Sigh---------

                                                                                                                                                  > Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                  > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/





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                                                                                                                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10704 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  Paul,

                                                                                                                                                  IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a regular basis does. You say
                                                                                                                                                  thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances? Do you need a half cup of
                                                                                                                                                  carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need one cup, or maybe more? What
                                                                                                                                                  about variations in adsorption rates between batches?

                                                                                                                                                  Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do not use carbon on a regular
                                                                                                                                                  basis. If you want crystal clear water, use regular water changes and a
                                                                                                                                                  diatom filter.

                                                                                                                                                  \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:53 PM
                                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter


                                                                                                                                                  in verey day aquarium use, it is used to clarify the
                                                                                                                                                  water and deodorize the tank. of course it should be
                                                                                                                                                  replaced after absorbing meds and chemicals, but for
                                                                                                                                                  odor and clarity use in a stable aquarium it is 30
                                                                                                                                                  days
                                                                                                                                                  --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > As I mentioned a bit earlier to Rachel, in another
                                                                                                                                                  > thread, carbon should
                                                                                                                                                  > only be used in specific instances where chemical
                                                                                                                                                  > filtration may be
                                                                                                                                                  > warranted. There is no real way to judge when the
                                                                                                                                                  > efficacy of the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > filter drops to an unacceptable level. It depends on
                                                                                                                                                  > the amount of carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > being used along with the load of chemicals it is
                                                                                                                                                  > being asked to remove. In
                                                                                                                                                  > some cases, one day may be more than it takes, while
                                                                                                                                                  > in others, the three
                                                                                                                                                  > months you mention may well be within its limits.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Contrary to what Paul has stated, once the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > has been used up, i.e.
                                                                                                                                                  > captured all the molecules it can, it has been shown
                                                                                                                                                  > that it will release
                                                                                                                                                  > these molecules, sometimes in a toxic combination
                                                                                                                                                  > with other molecules, and
                                                                                                                                                  > it will not serve as a biological filter.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > With the light load you have in your tank, I'd
                                                                                                                                                  > suggest removing the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > and replacing it with ceramic rings, or another
                                                                                                                                                  > material that can serve as a
                                                                                                                                                  > biological filter for your tank. Regular water
                                                                                                                                                  > changes should suffice to
                                                                                                                                                  > handle the removal of chemicals that may be harmful
                                                                                                                                                  > to your fish.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 12:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > I have a HOT Magnum canister filter which uses
                                                                                                                                                  > carbon and a sponge sleeve in
                                                                                                                                                  > the filter. Is that ok? The guy I got the tank and
                                                                                                                                                  > stuff from told me to
                                                                                                                                                  > change the carbon every 3 months, but that he hadn't
                                                                                                                                                  > changed it recently. I
                                                                                                                                                  > rinse the sponge sleeve monthly, when should I
                                                                                                                                                  > change the carbon?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Angela
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Rachel, Going by your description of whats
                                                                                                                                                  > happening, I'm positive
                                                                                                                                                  > that it has to be the new carbon canister that is
                                                                                                                                                  > darkening the
                                                                                                                                                  > water.
                                                                                                                                                  > It seems like the new canister has a lot of
                                                                                                                                                  > powdered carbon in it
                                                                                                                                                  > probably coating the larger carbon pieces. Do not
                                                                                                                                                  > use the other new
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > canister; it will just make things worse. Looks
                                                                                                                                                  > like the dark water
                                                                                                                                                  > is
                                                                                                                                                  > a result of suspended carbon particles, some of
                                                                                                                                                  > which may settle out
                                                                                                                                                  > in
                                                                                                                                                  > time, but will only get stirred up again when you
                                                                                                                                                  > change water. You
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > don't really need these carbon canisters,
                                                                                                                                                  > especially if you are
                                                                                                                                                  > doing
                                                                                                                                                  > water changes. While Pat may be correct, I've
                                                                                                                                                  > always been under the
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > impression that activated carbon is good for about
                                                                                                                                                  > 30 days or so.
                                                                                                                                                  > As
                                                                                                                                                  > some of these canisters can be opened, if you still
                                                                                                                                                  > want the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > filtration, try getting a small box of carbon from
                                                                                                                                                  > your lfs and
                                                                                                                                                  > briefly
                                                                                                                                                  > but thoroughly rinse a small portion to load into
                                                                                                                                                  > your canister, if
                                                                                                                                                  > possible. To get rid of the dark water, I believe
                                                                                                                                                  > you'll have to
                                                                                                                                                  > make
                                                                                                                                                  > several water changes. Perhaps a fine-pore sponge
                                                                                                                                                  > filter may help
                                                                                                                                                  > also. Ray
                                                                                                                                                  > \
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel"
                                                                                                                                                  > <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                  > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > so what do i do about the carbon filter. im kind
                                                                                                                                                  > of wary of
                                                                                                                                                  > keeping
                                                                                                                                                  > my
                                                                                                                                                  > > fish in there. should i try the other filter? (it
                                                                                                                                                  > was a 2 pack)
                                                                                                                                                  > > if so how should i treat the filter before i put
                                                                                                                                                  > it in?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10705 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  Ray,

                                                                                                                                                  Actually, you will find anti-caking agents in many brands of kosher salt as
                                                                                                                                                  well--you did mean anti-caking agents, didn't you?

                                                                                                                                                  There is absolutely no logical reason not to use table salt in an aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                  The anti-caking agents will not harm the fishes, nor will the iodine found
                                                                                                                                                  in table salt, especially if you are doing regular water changes as well.

                                                                                                                                                  \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt



                                                                                                                                                  No, not okay (because of caking agents -- & iodine), but go to the
                                                                                                                                                  supermarket (for Kosher salt) instead of the lfs; its a lot cheaper.
                                                                                                                                                  Ray
                                                                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK or do I need to wait
                                                                                                                                                  until
                                                                                                                                                  > I can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK or No it's not will
                                                                                                                                                  suffice.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > I've seen how some get about salt around here. =)
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10706 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Table salt

                                                                                                                                                  Our salt doesn’t contain iodine.

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 6:53 PM
                                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Ray,

                                                                                                                                                  Actually, you will find anti-caking agents in many brands of kosher salt as
                                                                                                                                                  well--you did mean anti-caking agents, didn't you?

                                                                                                                                                  There is absolutely no logical reason not to use table salt in an aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                  The anti-caking agents will not harm the fishes, nor will the iodine found
                                                                                                                                                  in table salt, especially if you are doing regular water changes as well.

                                                                                                                                                  \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt



                                                                                                                                                  No, not okay (because of caking agents  -- & iodine), but go to the
                                                                                                                                                  supermarket (for Kosher salt) instead of the lfs; its a lot cheaper. 
                                                                                                                                                  Ray                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  \                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > All I have is table salt to add.  Is this OK or do I need to wait
                                                                                                                                                  until
                                                                                                                                                  > I can get to LFS?  A simple yes this is OK or No it's not will
                                                                                                                                                  suffice.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > I've seen how some get about salt around here.  =)

                                                                                                                                                  > Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                  > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/



                                                                                                                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                  .
                                                                                                                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10707 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  I have not heard of anything that would contraindicate that salt cannot be
                                                                                                                                                  used with medications. Now, there may be the oddball medication out there
                                                                                                                                                  where salt may cause a problem, but I am not immediately aware of any. As
                                                                                                                                                  always, read the directions with any medication, and follow them to the
                                                                                                                                                  letter.

                                                                                                                                                  I believe that the Jungle brand of malachite green already contains salt
                                                                                                                                                  when the malachite green is sold in a crystalline form--I don't recall
                                                                                                                                                  specifically, and it has been so long since I have used a jungle product.

                                                                                                                                                  If you are going to use malachite green, do not use it with scaleless fishes
                                                                                                                                                  present. Tetras are also fairly intolerant of it. It is a toxic material, so
                                                                                                                                                  handle with care. Toxicity rises as pH drops and temperatures rise. It is
                                                                                                                                                  light sensitive, and will start to break down in the presence of light, so
                                                                                                                                                  curtail the lighting of your tank during treatment.

                                                                                                                                                  \\Steve//



                                                                                                                                                  ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  Behalf Of Dane & Leslie Moore
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 6:01 PM
                                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt



                                                                                                                                                  Is it OK to use with meds? Malachite green to be specific?



                                                                                                                                                  Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot Garage Sale!
                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/



                                                                                                                                                  There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 4:55 PM
                                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt




                                                                                                                                                  Okay guys, you win. I know table salt can be used "in a pinch" (pun
                                                                                                                                                  intended), but I guess I just prefer Kosher salt, as it has no
                                                                                                                                                  impurities. Why add stuff unnecessarily if you don't have to? Ray
                                                                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > Lol Patrick. That was a very bold statement. I usually sit quiet on
                                                                                                                                                  this
                                                                                                                                                  > subject coz I also feel that "YES, TABLE SALT IS FINE TOO".
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > I had used table salt in my early days for over 10 years without
                                                                                                                                                  any ill
                                                                                                                                                  > effects.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Nim
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > _____
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > Behalf Of Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: 26 April 2005 21:48
                                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Yes, table salt is fine.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK or do I need to wait
                                                                                                                                                  until I
                                                                                                                                                  > can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK or No it's not will
                                                                                                                                                  suffice.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10708 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  true kosher salt is pure salt...no additives. red box
                                                                                                                                                  "diamond" kosher salt has none
                                                                                                                                                  --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > Ray,
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Actually, you will find anti-caking agents in many
                                                                                                                                                  > brands of kosher salt as
                                                                                                                                                  > well--you did mean anti-caking agents, didn't you?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > There is absolutely no logical reason not to use
                                                                                                                                                  > table salt in an aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                  > The anti-caking agents will not harm the fishes, nor
                                                                                                                                                  > will the iodine found
                                                                                                                                                  > in table salt, especially if you are doing regular
                                                                                                                                                  > water changes as well.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > No, not okay (because of caking agents -- &
                                                                                                                                                  > iodine), but go to the
                                                                                                                                                  > supermarket (for Kosher salt) instead of the lfs;
                                                                                                                                                  > its a lot cheaper.
                                                                                                                                                  > Ray
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > \
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie
                                                                                                                                                  > Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK or do
                                                                                                                                                  > I need to wait
                                                                                                                                                  > until
                                                                                                                                                  > > I can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK or No
                                                                                                                                                  > it's not will
                                                                                                                                                  > suffice.
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > I've seen how some get about salt around here. =)
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff?
                                                                                                                                                  > Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > > Sale!
                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >

                                                                                                                                                  __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10709 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  it is dependant upon flow rate o water through it.
                                                                                                                                                  most cratridges are specifically for different models
                                                                                                                                                  of filter because they have the proper amount of
                                                                                                                                                  carbon for teh flow rate. i do not have exact numbers
                                                                                                                                                  in front of me, but i am sure they could be found.
                                                                                                                                                  there is no reason not to use carbon.
                                                                                                                                                  --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                  > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a
                                                                                                                                                  > regular basis does. You say
                                                                                                                                                  > thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances? Do
                                                                                                                                                  > you need a half cup of
                                                                                                                                                  > carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need one
                                                                                                                                                  > cup, or maybe more? What
                                                                                                                                                  > about variations in adsorption rates between
                                                                                                                                                  > batches?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do not use
                                                                                                                                                  > carbon on a regular
                                                                                                                                                  > basis. If you want crystal clear water, use regular
                                                                                                                                                  > water changes and a
                                                                                                                                                  > diatom filter.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:53 PM
                                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > in verey day aquarium use, it is used to clarify the
                                                                                                                                                  > water and deodorize the tank. of course it should
                                                                                                                                                  > be
                                                                                                                                                  > replaced after absorbing meds and chemicals, but for
                                                                                                                                                  > odor and clarity use in a stable aquarium it is 30
                                                                                                                                                  > days
                                                                                                                                                  > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > As I mentioned a bit earlier to Rachel, in another
                                                                                                                                                  > > thread, carbon should
                                                                                                                                                  > > only be used in specific instances where chemical
                                                                                                                                                  > > filtration may be
                                                                                                                                                  > > warranted. There is no real way to judge when the
                                                                                                                                                  > > efficacy of the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > > filter drops to an unacceptable level. It depends
                                                                                                                                                  > on
                                                                                                                                                  > > the amount of carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > > being used along with the load of chemicals it is
                                                                                                                                                  > > being asked to remove. In
                                                                                                                                                  > > some cases, one day may be more than it takes,
                                                                                                                                                  > while
                                                                                                                                                  > > in others, the three
                                                                                                                                                  > > months you mention may well be within its limits.
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > Contrary to what Paul has stated, once the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > > has been used up, i.e.
                                                                                                                                                  > > captured all the molecules it can, it has been
                                                                                                                                                  > shown
                                                                                                                                                  > > that it will release
                                                                                                                                                  > > these molecules, sometimes in a toxic combination
                                                                                                                                                  > > with other molecules, and
                                                                                                                                                  > > it will not serve as a biological filter.
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > With the light load you have in your tank, I'd
                                                                                                                                                  > > suggest removing the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > > and replacing it with ceramic rings, or another
                                                                                                                                                  > > material that can serve as a
                                                                                                                                                  > > biological filter for your tank. Regular water
                                                                                                                                                  > > changes should suffice to
                                                                                                                                                  > > handle the removal of chemicals that may be
                                                                                                                                                  > harmful
                                                                                                                                                  > > to your fish.
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > > Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                  > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 12:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                  > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > I have a HOT Magnum canister filter which uses
                                                                                                                                                  > > carbon and a sponge sleeve in
                                                                                                                                                  > > the filter. Is that ok? The guy I got the tank
                                                                                                                                                  > and
                                                                                                                                                  > > stuff from told me to
                                                                                                                                                  > > change the carbon every 3 months, but that he
                                                                                                                                                  > hadn't
                                                                                                                                                  > > changed it recently. I
                                                                                                                                                  > > rinse the sponge sleeve monthly, when should I
                                                                                                                                                  > > change the carbon?
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > Angela
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > Rachel, Going by your description of whats
                                                                                                                                                  > > happening, I'm positive
                                                                                                                                                  > > that it has to be the new carbon canister that is
                                                                                                                                                  > > darkening the
                                                                                                                                                  > > water.
                                                                                                                                                  > > It seems like the new canister has a lot of
                                                                                                                                                  > > powdered carbon in it
                                                                                                                                                  > > probably coating the larger carbon pieces. Do
                                                                                                                                                  > not
                                                                                                                                                  > > use the other new
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > canister; it will just make things worse. Looks
                                                                                                                                                  > > like the dark water
                                                                                                                                                  > > is
                                                                                                                                                  > > a result of suspended carbon particles, some of
                                                                                                                                                  > > which may settle out
                                                                                                                                                  > > in
                                                                                                                                                  > > time, but will only get stirred up again when you
                                                                                                                                                  > > change water. You
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > don't really need these carbon canisters,
                                                                                                                                                  > > especially if you are
                                                                                                                                                  > > doing
                                                                                                                                                  > > water changes. While Pat may be correct, I've
                                                                                                                                                  > > always been under the
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > impression that activated carbon is good for
                                                                                                                                                  > about
                                                                                                                                                  > > 30 days or so.
                                                                                                                                                  > > As
                                                                                                                                                  > > some of these canisters can be opened, if you
                                                                                                                                                  > still
                                                                                                                                                  > > want the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > > filtration, try getting a small box of carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > from
                                                                                                                                                  > > your lfs and
                                                                                                                                                  > > briefly
                                                                                                                                                  > > but thoroughly rinse a small portion to load into
                                                                                                                                                  > > your canister, if
                                                                                                                                                  > > possible. To get rid of the dark water, I
                                                                                                                                                  > believe
                                                                                                                                                  > > you'll have to
                                                                                                                                                  > > make
                                                                                                                                                  > > several water changes. Perhaps a fine-pore
                                                                                                                                                  > sponge
                                                                                                                                                  > > filter may help
                                                                                                                                                  > > also. Ray
                                                                                                                                                  > > \
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel"
                                                                                                                                                  > > <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                  > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > > so what do i do about the carbon filter. im
                                                                                                                                                  > kind
                                                                                                                                                  > > of wary of
                                                                                                                                                  > > keeping
                                                                                                                                                  > > my
                                                                                                                                                  > > > fish in there. should i try the other filter?
                                                                                                                                                  > (it
                                                                                                                                                  > > was a 2 pack)
                                                                                                                                                  > > > if so how should i treat the filter before i
                                                                                                                                                  > put
                                                                                                                                                  > > it in?
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >


                                                                                                                                                  __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10710 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  that is because they are not true kosher products.
                                                                                                                                                  look up the definition
                                                                                                                                                  --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > Ray,
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Actually, you will find anti-caking agents in many
                                                                                                                                                  > brands of kosher salt as
                                                                                                                                                  > well--you did mean anti-caking agents, didn't you?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > There is absolutely no logical reason not to use
                                                                                                                                                  > table salt in an aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                  > The anti-caking agents will not harm the fishes, nor
                                                                                                                                                  > will the iodine found
                                                                                                                                                  > in table salt, especially if you are doing regular
                                                                                                                                                  > water changes as well.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > No, not okay (because of caking agents -- &
                                                                                                                                                  > iodine), but go to the
                                                                                                                                                  > supermarket (for Kosher salt) instead of the lfs;
                                                                                                                                                  > its a lot cheaper.
                                                                                                                                                  > Ray
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > \
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie
                                                                                                                                                  > Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK or do
                                                                                                                                                  > I need to wait
                                                                                                                                                  > until
                                                                                                                                                  > > I can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK or No
                                                                                                                                                  > it's not will
                                                                                                                                                  > suffice.
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > I've seen how some get about salt around here. =)
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff?
                                                                                                                                                  > Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > > Sale!
                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >

                                                                                                                                                  __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10711 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  What do I do with the HOT Magnum canister filter I have?  Remember, I'm very new at this.  It has carbon in it and a sponge sleeve.  If I'm not supposed to use carbon, what do I use?
                                                                                                                                                  Angela
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                  Paul,

                                                                                                                                                  IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a regular basis does. You say
                                                                                                                                                  thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances? Do you need a half cup of
                                                                                                                                                  carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need one cup, or maybe more? What
                                                                                                                                                  about variations in adsorption rates between batches?

                                                                                                                                                  Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do not use carbon on  a regular
                                                                                                                                                  basis. If you want crystal clear water, use regular water changes and a
                                                                                                                                                  diatom filter.

                                                                                                                                                  \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10712 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  steve is probably oneof those who does not belive in a
                                                                                                                                                  ugf and will tell you it releases toxins and kills the
                                                                                                                                                  tank. carbon is extremely effective and will not hold
                                                                                                                                                  onto anything negative that is not already in your
                                                                                                                                                  tank. if you are using it to remove something
                                                                                                                                                  specific, get rid of it when it has doneits job. for
                                                                                                                                                  regular aquarium maintenance it serves it purpose of
                                                                                                                                                  clarifying and deodorizing. if you want to do weekly
                                                                                                                                                  water changes don't use it...up to you.
                                                                                                                                                  --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > What do I do with the HOT Magnum canister filter I
                                                                                                                                                  > have? Remember, I'm very new at this. It has
                                                                                                                                                  > carbon in it and a sponge sleeve. If I'm not
                                                                                                                                                  > supposed to use carbon, what do I use?
                                                                                                                                                  > Angela
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                  > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a
                                                                                                                                                  > regular basis does. You say
                                                                                                                                                  > thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances? Do
                                                                                                                                                  > you need a half cup of
                                                                                                                                                  > carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need one
                                                                                                                                                  > cup, or maybe more? What
                                                                                                                                                  > about variations in adsorption rates between
                                                                                                                                                  > batches?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do not use
                                                                                                                                                  > carbon on a regular
                                                                                                                                                  > basis. If you want crystal clear water, use regular
                                                                                                                                                  > water changes and a
                                                                                                                                                  > diatom filter.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On

                                                                                                                                                  __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10713 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  I did, on the last go around on this topic. Anti-caking agents are allowed,
                                                                                                                                                  and salt containing the anti-caking agents may, indeed, be marked as being
                                                                                                                                                  kosher. It took me the better part of an evening to determine this.

                                                                                                                                                  \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:14 PM
                                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt


                                                                                                                                                  that is because they are not true kosher products.
                                                                                                                                                  look up the definition
                                                                                                                                                  --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > Ray,
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Actually, you will find anti-caking agents in many
                                                                                                                                                  > brands of kosher salt as
                                                                                                                                                  > well--you did mean anti-caking agents, didn't you?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > There is absolutely no logical reason not to use
                                                                                                                                                  > table salt in an aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                  > The anti-caking agents will not harm the fishes, nor
                                                                                                                                                  > will the iodine found
                                                                                                                                                  > in table salt, especially if you are doing regular
                                                                                                                                                  > water changes as well.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > No, not okay (because of caking agents -- &
                                                                                                                                                  > iodine), but go to the
                                                                                                                                                  > supermarket (for Kosher salt) instead of the lfs;
                                                                                                                                                  > its a lot cheaper.
                                                                                                                                                  > Ray
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > \
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie
                                                                                                                                                  > Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK or do
                                                                                                                                                  > I need to wait
                                                                                                                                                  > until
                                                                                                                                                  > > I can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK or No
                                                                                                                                                  > it's not will
                                                                                                                                                  > suffice.
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > I've seen how some get about salt around here. =)
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff?
                                                                                                                                                  > Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > > Sale!
                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10714 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  Paul,

                                                                                                                                                  Most prepackaged for the filter carbon is not enough for either the flow
                                                                                                                                                  rate nor the amount of water that will be passing through it. It does not
                                                                                                                                                  matter whether they are the plastic cartridges used in conjunction with
                                                                                                                                                  undergravel filters , or the polyester pads with carbon in the interior
                                                                                                                                                  "pouch". Carbon that has out lived its useful life will start to shed the
                                                                                                                                                  molecules you are picking up. As this is done, it is not a perfect thing and
                                                                                                                                                  molecules can combine to make substances more toxic than those originally
                                                                                                                                                  found in the water.

                                                                                                                                                  I stand by my statement that on should only use carbon as a filtration agent
                                                                                                                                                  when it is indicated, such as to remove remaining medication from the water
                                                                                                                                                  in a tank. Regular water changes will handle the substances that carbon
                                                                                                                                                  removes to an adequate degree. If you want crystal clear water (something
                                                                                                                                                  not often found in nature) then there are other means and methods to achieve
                                                                                                                                                  this that do not carry the risks of carbon filtration.

                                                                                                                                                  \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:13 PM
                                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter


                                                                                                                                                  it is dependant upon flow rate o water through it.
                                                                                                                                                  most cratridges are specifically for different models
                                                                                                                                                  of filter because they have the proper amount of
                                                                                                                                                  carbon for teh flow rate. i do not have exact numbers
                                                                                                                                                  in front of me, but i am sure they could be found.
                                                                                                                                                  there is no reason not to use carbon.
                                                                                                                                                  --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                  > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a
                                                                                                                                                  > regular basis does. You say
                                                                                                                                                  > thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances? Do
                                                                                                                                                  > you need a half cup of
                                                                                                                                                  > carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need one
                                                                                                                                                  > cup, or maybe more? What
                                                                                                                                                  > about variations in adsorption rates between
                                                                                                                                                  > batches?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do not use
                                                                                                                                                  > carbon on a regular
                                                                                                                                                  > basis. If you want crystal clear water, use regular
                                                                                                                                                  > water changes and a
                                                                                                                                                  > diatom filter.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:53 PM
                                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > in verey day aquarium use, it is used to clarify the
                                                                                                                                                  > water and deodorize the tank. of course it should
                                                                                                                                                  > be
                                                                                                                                                  > replaced after absorbing meds and chemicals, but for
                                                                                                                                                  > odor and clarity use in a stable aquarium it is 30
                                                                                                                                                  > days
                                                                                                                                                  > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > As I mentioned a bit earlier to Rachel, in another
                                                                                                                                                  > > thread, carbon should
                                                                                                                                                  > > only be used in specific instances where chemical
                                                                                                                                                  > > filtration may be
                                                                                                                                                  > > warranted. There is no real way to judge when the
                                                                                                                                                  > > efficacy of the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > > filter drops to an unacceptable level. It depends
                                                                                                                                                  > on
                                                                                                                                                  > > the amount of carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > > being used along with the load of chemicals it is
                                                                                                                                                  > > being asked to remove. In
                                                                                                                                                  > > some cases, one day may be more than it takes,
                                                                                                                                                  > while
                                                                                                                                                  > > in others, the three
                                                                                                                                                  > > months you mention may well be within its limits.
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > Contrary to what Paul has stated, once the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > > has been used up, i.e.
                                                                                                                                                  > > captured all the molecules it can, it has been
                                                                                                                                                  > shown
                                                                                                                                                  > > that it will release
                                                                                                                                                  > > these molecules, sometimes in a toxic combination
                                                                                                                                                  > > with other molecules, and
                                                                                                                                                  > > it will not serve as a biological filter.
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > With the light load you have in your tank, I'd
                                                                                                                                                  > > suggest removing the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > > and replacing it with ceramic rings, or another
                                                                                                                                                  > > material that can serve as a
                                                                                                                                                  > > biological filter for your tank. Regular water
                                                                                                                                                  > > changes should suffice to
                                                                                                                                                  > > handle the removal of chemicals that may be
                                                                                                                                                  > harmful
                                                                                                                                                  > > to your fish.
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > > Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                  > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 12:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                  > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > I have a HOT Magnum canister filter which uses
                                                                                                                                                  > > carbon and a sponge sleeve in
                                                                                                                                                  > > the filter. Is that ok? The guy I got the tank
                                                                                                                                                  > and
                                                                                                                                                  > > stuff from told me to
                                                                                                                                                  > > change the carbon every 3 months, but that he
                                                                                                                                                  > hadn't
                                                                                                                                                  > > changed it recently. I
                                                                                                                                                  > > rinse the sponge sleeve monthly, when should I
                                                                                                                                                  > > change the carbon?
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > Angela
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > Rachel, Going by your description of whats
                                                                                                                                                  > > happening, I'm positive
                                                                                                                                                  > > that it has to be the new carbon canister that is
                                                                                                                                                  > > darkening the
                                                                                                                                                  > > water.
                                                                                                                                                  > > It seems like the new canister has a lot of
                                                                                                                                                  > > powdered carbon in it
                                                                                                                                                  > > probably coating the larger carbon pieces. Do
                                                                                                                                                  > not
                                                                                                                                                  > > use the other new
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > canister; it will just make things worse. Looks
                                                                                                                                                  > > like the dark water
                                                                                                                                                  > > is
                                                                                                                                                  > > a result of suspended carbon particles, some of
                                                                                                                                                  > > which may settle out
                                                                                                                                                  > > in
                                                                                                                                                  > > time, but will only get stirred up again when you
                                                                                                                                                  > > change water. You
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > don't really need these carbon canisters,
                                                                                                                                                  > > especially if you are
                                                                                                                                                  > > doing
                                                                                                                                                  > > water changes. While Pat may be correct, I've
                                                                                                                                                  > > always been under the
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > impression that activated carbon is good for
                                                                                                                                                  > about
                                                                                                                                                  > > 30 days or so.
                                                                                                                                                  > > As
                                                                                                                                                  > > some of these canisters can be opened, if you
                                                                                                                                                  > still
                                                                                                                                                  > > want the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > > filtration, try getting a small box of carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > from
                                                                                                                                                  > > your lfs and
                                                                                                                                                  > > briefly
                                                                                                                                                  > > but thoroughly rinse a small portion to load into
                                                                                                                                                  > > your canister, if
                                                                                                                                                  > > possible. To get rid of the dark water, I
                                                                                                                                                  > believe
                                                                                                                                                  > > you'll have to
                                                                                                                                                  > > make
                                                                                                                                                  > > several water changes. Perhaps a fine-pore
                                                                                                                                                  > sponge
                                                                                                                                                  > > filter may help
                                                                                                                                                  > > also. Ray
                                                                                                                                                  > > \
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel"
                                                                                                                                                  > > <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                  > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > > so what do i do about the carbon filter. im
                                                                                                                                                  > kind
                                                                                                                                                  > > of wary of
                                                                                                                                                  > > keeping
                                                                                                                                                  > > my
                                                                                                                                                  > > > fish in there. should i try the other filter?
                                                                                                                                                  > (it
                                                                                                                                                  > > was a 2 pack)
                                                                                                                                                  > > > if so how should i treat the filter before i
                                                                                                                                                  > put
                                                                                                                                                  > > it in?
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10715 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: more
                                                                                                                                                  when my fish in the past have done that their time to go to the beyond has come.. I so hate seeing them thrash like that so I usually scoop them in the net and have them in the net in the water as my net is pretty good sized... Shannon

                                                                                                                                                  My infected blood parrot, the one with the large gills, is also acting very spastic.  He flips around like a fish would out of water.

                                                                                                                                                  Sigh---------

                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10716 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  Angela,

                                                                                                                                                  Use the cartridge that you got wit the H.O.T. Magnum. You can also get a
                                                                                                                                                  bio-wheel for it to provide for biological filtration.

                                                                                                                                                  And, for Paul, I should mention that Tim Hovanec and I long ago determined
                                                                                                                                                  that we could agree to disagree on this topic of the use of carbon.

                                                                                                                                                  \\Steve//



                                                                                                                                                  ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:09 PM
                                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter


                                                                                                                                                  What do I do with the HOT Magnum canister filter I have? Remember, I'm very
                                                                                                                                                  new at this. It has carbon in it and a sponge sleeve. If I'm not supposed
                                                                                                                                                  to use carbon, what do I use?
                                                                                                                                                  Angela


                                                                                                                                                  -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                  Paul,

                                                                                                                                                  IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a regular basis does.
                                                                                                                                                  You say
                                                                                                                                                  thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances? Do you need a half
                                                                                                                                                  cup of
                                                                                                                                                  carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need one cup, or maybe
                                                                                                                                                  more? What
                                                                                                                                                  about variations in adsorption rates between batches?

                                                                                                                                                  Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do not use carbon on a
                                                                                                                                                  regular
                                                                                                                                                  basis. If you want crystal clear water, use regular water changes
                                                                                                                                                  and a
                                                                                                                                                  diatom filter.

                                                                                                                                                  \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On




                                                                                                                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                  .
                                                                                                                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                  the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                  subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                  in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10717 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  Paul,

                                                                                                                                                  Actually, a well cared for UGF is a very efficient filter. I have used them
                                                                                                                                                  extensively in both planted and unplanted tanks. However, like so many
                                                                                                                                                  things in life, there are situations in which you would not want to use a
                                                                                                                                                  UGF, and, in which, they will not work at all.

                                                                                                                                                  \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 9:11 PM
                                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter


                                                                                                                                                  steve is probably oneof those who does not belive in a
                                                                                                                                                  ugf and will tell you it releases toxins and kills the
                                                                                                                                                  tank. carbon is extremely effective and will not hold
                                                                                                                                                  onto anything negative that is not already in your
                                                                                                                                                  tank. if you are using it to remove something
                                                                                                                                                  specific, get rid of it when it has doneits job. for
                                                                                                                                                  regular aquarium maintenance it serves it purpose of
                                                                                                                                                  clarifying and deodorizing. if you want to do weekly
                                                                                                                                                  water changes don't use it...up to you.
                                                                                                                                                  --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > What do I do with the HOT Magnum canister filter I
                                                                                                                                                  > have? Remember, I'm very new at this. It has
                                                                                                                                                  > carbon in it and a sponge sleeve. If I'm not
                                                                                                                                                  > supposed to use carbon, what do I use?
                                                                                                                                                  > Angela
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                  > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a
                                                                                                                                                  > regular basis does. You say
                                                                                                                                                  > thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances? Do
                                                                                                                                                  > you need a half cup of
                                                                                                                                                  > carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need one
                                                                                                                                                  > cup, or maybe more? What
                                                                                                                                                  > about variations in adsorption rates between
                                                                                                                                                  > batches?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do not use
                                                                                                                                                  > carbon on a regular
                                                                                                                                                  > basis. If you want crystal clear water, use regular
                                                                                                                                                  > water changes and a
                                                                                                                                                  > diatom filter.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10718 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: update

                                                                                                                                                  The blood parrot with stuff out of his gills is QT’d in a 10 gal, heated w/ bubble wand.  He hates it but oh well.  He hasn’t spazzed out in the last several hours but I’m watching him like a hawk, he’s in the kitchen and I’m in here 90% of the day.  How pathetic huh? Lol

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  The other BP with the white puffs around his eyes:  the puffs are nearly down and not as white now.  I don’t know what it was/is but it looks to be getting better.  I will do yet another water change in the morning, buy new ammonia testers and go from there.  He doesn’t have any of the same gill problems as the above BP. 

                                                                                                                                                  They are both eating great, moving well, etc…  Color is great.  The puffy eyed one has some “missing” scales here and there but I think I removed the culprit for this.  I stuck the firemouth in a separator and will be getting rid of him tomorrow.  He’s unbelievably mean.  (Especially with the large BP out the tank.  He went nuts on everyone without the other BP in there to get him back in his place.) I almost hate to even give him to the LFS. 

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Thanks for all the info.  If you see anything wrong with what I’ve done, please tell me!  Otherwise I will post #’s sometime tomorrow (Ph & ammonia).

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Ciao’ for now and thanks again. =)

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  ~Leslie

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10719 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                      I remember that.  It is true, Kosher salt can have anti-caking agents.  Probably Kosher anti-caking agents. :)  There was an article in AFM (I can look it up, but please don't make me) where this was discussed, and they said table salt was harmless.  The other day, I took some table salt and tested it on a fish.  There was no harm done that I can tell.  One week with 1/2 tsp/gallon of iodized table salt with anti-caking agents is safe. 
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                  I did, on the last go around on this topic. Anti-caking agents are allowed, and salt containing the anti-caking agents may, indeed, be marked as being kosher. It took me the better part of an evening to determine this.

                                                                                                                                                  \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10720 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: more

                                                                                                                                                  He has only done it that once under the log then again in mid water.   I had put him in the sick tank the 2nd time.  I may  have jumped the gun on posting about that.  I think I’m becoming paranoid. =)  He’s been pretty calm since I moved him.  He doesn’t like it, but he’s taken care of.  I just hope it isn’t too small.  It’s a 10 gal and he’s about 5“ long 3.5” tall.

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of agentscullyeyore@...
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 9:00 PM
                                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] more

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  when my fish in the past have done that their time to go to the beyond has come.. I so hate seeing them thrash like that so I usually scoop them in the net and have them in the net in the water as my net is pretty good sized... Shannon

                                                                                                                                                  My infected blood parrot, the one with the large gills, is also acting very spastic.  He flips around like a fish would out of water.

                                                                                                                                                  Sigh---------

                                                                                                                                                   



                                                                                                                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                  .
                                                                                                                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10721 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  yeah it is called salt water....
                                                                                                                                                  --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Actually, a well cared for UGF is a very efficient
                                                                                                                                                  > filter. I have used them
                                                                                                                                                  > extensively in both planted and unplanted tanks.
                                                                                                                                                  > However, like so many
                                                                                                                                                  > things in life, there are situations in which you
                                                                                                                                                  > would not want to use a
                                                                                                                                                  > UGF, and, in which, they will not work at all.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 9:11 PM
                                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > steve is probably oneof those who does not belive in
                                                                                                                                                  > a
                                                                                                                                                  > ugf and will tell you it releases toxins and kills
                                                                                                                                                  > the
                                                                                                                                                  > tank. carbon is extremely effective and will not
                                                                                                                                                  > hold
                                                                                                                                                  > onto anything negative that is not already in your
                                                                                                                                                  > tank. if you are using it to remove something
                                                                                                                                                  > specific, get rid of it when it has doneits job.
                                                                                                                                                  > for
                                                                                                                                                  > regular aquarium maintenance it serves it purpose of
                                                                                                                                                  > clarifying and deodorizing. if you want to do
                                                                                                                                                  > weekly
                                                                                                                                                  > water changes don't use it...up to you.
                                                                                                                                                  > --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > > What do I do with the HOT Magnum canister filter I
                                                                                                                                                  > > have? Remember, I'm very new at this. It has
                                                                                                                                                  > > carbon in it and a sponge sleeve. If I'm not
                                                                                                                                                  > > supposed to use carbon, what do I use?
                                                                                                                                                  > > Angela
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                  > > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a
                                                                                                                                                  > > regular basis does. You say
                                                                                                                                                  > > thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances? Do
                                                                                                                                                  > > you need a half cup of
                                                                                                                                                  > > carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need one
                                                                                                                                                  > > cup, or maybe more? What
                                                                                                                                                  > > about variations in adsorption rates between
                                                                                                                                                  > > batches?
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do not
                                                                                                                                                  > use
                                                                                                                                                  > > carbon on a regular
                                                                                                                                                  > > basis. If you want crystal clear water, use
                                                                                                                                                  > regular
                                                                                                                                                  > > water changes and a
                                                                                                                                                  > > diatom filter.
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >

                                                                                                                                                  __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10722 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  i have used carbon filtration for the last 12 years
                                                                                                                                                  with no problems whatsoever. i have never had any
                                                                                                                                                  disease, parasite, or bacterial infections, and i only
                                                                                                                                                  top off water. i do not do water changes, and i
                                                                                                                                                  change out my carbon filters only when they begin to
                                                                                                                                                  clog a bit, which is usually about 2-3 months. if the
                                                                                                                                                  aquarium is properly mainatined, there is no need to
                                                                                                                                                  really do anything, it is a like a stable ecosystem,
                                                                                                                                                  you just have to add a little "rain" now and then. my
                                                                                                                                                  water is crystal clear, my fish reproduce, plants do
                                                                                                                                                  not turn brown, so as far as i am concerned, the only
                                                                                                                                                  place that carbon does not belong is in a saltwater
                                                                                                                                                  aquarium. the carbon caps pn a ugf are not enough to
                                                                                                                                                  do anything beneficial or negative, and ugf's work
                                                                                                                                                  much better with powerheads anyway.
                                                                                                                                                  --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                  > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Most prepackaged for the filter carbon is not enough
                                                                                                                                                  > for either the flow
                                                                                                                                                  > rate nor the amount of water that will be passing
                                                                                                                                                  > through it. It does not
                                                                                                                                                  > matter whether they are the plastic cartridges used
                                                                                                                                                  > in conjunction with
                                                                                                                                                  > undergravel filters , or the polyester pads with
                                                                                                                                                  > carbon in the interior
                                                                                                                                                  > "pouch". Carbon that has out lived its useful life
                                                                                                                                                  > will start to shed the
                                                                                                                                                  > molecules you are picking up. As this is done, it is
                                                                                                                                                  > not a perfect thing and
                                                                                                                                                  > molecules can combine to make substances more toxic
                                                                                                                                                  > than those originally
                                                                                                                                                  > found in the water.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > I stand by my statement that on should only use
                                                                                                                                                  > carbon as a filtration agent
                                                                                                                                                  > when it is indicated, such as to remove remaining
                                                                                                                                                  > medication from the water
                                                                                                                                                  > in a tank. Regular water changes will handle the
                                                                                                                                                  > substances that carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > removes to an adequate degree. If you want crystal
                                                                                                                                                  > clear water (something
                                                                                                                                                  > not often found in nature) then there are other
                                                                                                                                                  > means and methods to achieve
                                                                                                                                                  > this that do not carry the risks of carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > filtration.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:13 PM
                                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > it is dependant upon flow rate o water through it.
                                                                                                                                                  > most cratridges are specifically for different
                                                                                                                                                  > models
                                                                                                                                                  > of filter because they have the proper amount of
                                                                                                                                                  > carbon for teh flow rate. i do not have exact
                                                                                                                                                  > numbers
                                                                                                                                                  > in front of me, but i am sure they could be found.
                                                                                                                                                  > there is no reason not to use carbon.
                                                                                                                                                  > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a
                                                                                                                                                  > > regular basis does. You say
                                                                                                                                                  > > thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances? Do
                                                                                                                                                  > > you need a half cup of
                                                                                                                                                  > > carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need one
                                                                                                                                                  > > cup, or maybe more? What
                                                                                                                                                  > > about variations in adsorption rates between
                                                                                                                                                  > > batches?
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do not
                                                                                                                                                  > use
                                                                                                                                                  > > carbon on a regular
                                                                                                                                                  > > basis. If you want crystal clear water, use
                                                                                                                                                  > regular
                                                                                                                                                  > > water changes and a
                                                                                                                                                  > > diatom filter.
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                  > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:53 PM
                                                                                                                                                  > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > in verey day aquarium use, it is used to clarify
                                                                                                                                                  > the
                                                                                                                                                  > > water and deodorize the tank. of course it should
                                                                                                                                                  > > be
                                                                                                                                                  > > replaced after absorbing meds and chemicals, but
                                                                                                                                                  > for
                                                                                                                                                  > > odor and clarity use in a stable aquarium it is 30
                                                                                                                                                  > > days
                                                                                                                                                  > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > > > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > > As I mentioned a bit earlier to Rachel, in
                                                                                                                                                  > another
                                                                                                                                                  > > > thread, carbon should
                                                                                                                                                  > > > only be used in specific instances where
                                                                                                                                                  > chemical
                                                                                                                                                  > > > filtration may be
                                                                                                                                                  > > > warranted. There is no real way to judge when
                                                                                                                                                  > the
                                                                                                                                                  > > > efficacy of the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > > > filter drops to an unacceptable level. It
                                                                                                                                                  > depends
                                                                                                                                                  > > on
                                                                                                                                                  > > > the amount of carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > > > being used along with the load of chemicals it
                                                                                                                                                  > is
                                                                                                                                                  > > > being asked to remove. In
                                                                                                                                                  > > > some cases, one day may be more than it takes,
                                                                                                                                                  > > while
                                                                                                                                                  > > > in others, the three
                                                                                                                                                  > > > months you mention may well be within its
                                                                                                                                                  > limits.
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > > Contrary to what Paul has stated, once the
                                                                                                                                                  > carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > > > has been used up, i.e.
                                                                                                                                                  > > > captured all the molecules it can, it has been
                                                                                                                                                  > > shown
                                                                                                                                                  > > > that it will release
                                                                                                                                                  > > > these molecules, sometimes in a toxic
                                                                                                                                                  > combination
                                                                                                                                                  > > > with other molecules, and
                                                                                                                                                  > > > it will not serve as a biological filter.
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > > With the light load you have in your tank, I'd
                                                                                                                                                  > > > suggest removing the carbon
                                                                                                                                                  > > > and replacing it with ceramic rings, or another
                                                                                                                                                  > > > material that can serve as a
                                                                                                                                                  > > > biological filter for your tank. Regular water
                                                                                                                                                  > > > changes should suffice to
                                                                                                                                                  > > > handle the removal of chemicals that may be
                                                                                                                                                  > > harmful
                                                                                                                                                  > > > to your fish.
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > > > Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                  > > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 12:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                  > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > > I have a HOT Magnum canister filter which uses
                                                                                                                                                  > > > carbon and a sponge sleeve in
                                                                                                                                                  > > > the filter. Is that ok? The guy I got the tank
                                                                                                                                                  > > and
                                                                                                                                                  > > > stuff from told me to
                                                                                                                                                  > > > change the carbon every 3 months, but that he
                                                                                                                                                  > > hadn't
                                                                                                                                                  > > > changed it recently. I
                                                                                                                                                  > > > rinse the sponge sleeve monthly, when should I
                                                                                                                                                  > > > change the carbon?
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > > Angela
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > > Rachel, Going by your description of whats
                                                                                                                                                  > > > happening, I'm positive
                                                                                                                                                  > > > that it has to be the new carbon canister that
                                                                                                                                                  > is
                                                                                                                                                  > > > darkening the
                                                                                                                                                  > > > water.
                                                                                                                                                  > > > It seems like the new canister has a lot of
                                                                                                                                                  > > > powdered carbon in it
                                                                                                                                                  > > > probably coating the larger carbon pieces. Do
                                                                                                                                                  > > not
                                                                                                                                                  > > > use the other new
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > > canister; it will just make things worse.
                                                                                                                                                  > Looks
                                                                                                                                                  > > > like the dark water
                                                                                                                                                  > > > is
                                                                                                                                                  > > > a result of suspended carbon particles, some of
                                                                                                                                                  > > > which may settle out
                                                                                                                                                  > > > in
                                                                                                                                                  > > > time, but will only get stirred up again when
                                                                                                                                                  > you
                                                                                                                                                  > > > change water. You
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > > don't really need these carbon canisters,
                                                                                                                                                  > > > especially if you are
                                                                                                                                                  > > > doing
                                                                                                                                                  > > > water changes. While Pat may be correct, I've
                                                                                                                                                  > > > always been under the
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > > impression that activated carbon is good for
                                                                                                                                                  > > about
                                                                                                                                                  > > > 30 days or so.
                                                                                                                                                  > > > As
                                                                                                                                                  > > > some of these canisters can be opened, if you
                                                                                                                                                  > > still
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  === message truncated ===


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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10723 From: paul helms Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  additives may be "allowed" now, but if you go to any
                                                                                                                                                  commercial quality kitchen, the kosher salt will be
                                                                                                                                                  true kosher salt, which means that it has nothing
                                                                                                                                                  added to it. here is the literal defintion of kosher
                                                                                                                                                  salt from dictionary.com.:
                                                                                                                                                  kosher salt
                                                                                                                                                  n.
                                                                                                                                                  A refined, coarse-grained salt with no additives

                                                                                                                                                  looser jewish groups may have allowed a change in it
                                                                                                                                                  in certain areas, but true and literal kosher salt is
                                                                                                                                                  nothing but pure salt!

                                                                                                                                                  --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > I did, on the last go around on this topic.
                                                                                                                                                  > Anti-caking agents are allowed,
                                                                                                                                                  > and salt containing the anti-caking agents may,
                                                                                                                                                  > indeed, be marked as being
                                                                                                                                                  > kosher. It took me the better part of an evening to
                                                                                                                                                  > determine this.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:14 PM
                                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > that is because they are not true kosher products.
                                                                                                                                                  > look up the definition
                                                                                                                                                  > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > > Ray,
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > Actually, you will find anti-caking agents in many
                                                                                                                                                  > > brands of kosher salt as
                                                                                                                                                  > > well--you did mean anti-caking agents, didn't you?
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > There is absolutely no logical reason not to use
                                                                                                                                                  > > table salt in an aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                  > > The anti-caking agents will not harm the fishes,
                                                                                                                                                  > nor
                                                                                                                                                  > > will the iodine found
                                                                                                                                                  > > in table salt, especially if you are doing regular
                                                                                                                                                  > > water changes as well.
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                  > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                  > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > No, not okay (because of caking agents -- &
                                                                                                                                                  > > iodine), but go to the
                                                                                                                                                  > > supermarket (for Kosher salt) instead of the lfs;
                                                                                                                                                  > > its a lot cheaper.
                                                                                                                                                  > > Ray
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > \
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie
                                                                                                                                                  > > Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  > > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > > > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK or
                                                                                                                                                  > do
                                                                                                                                                  > > I need to wait
                                                                                                                                                  > > until
                                                                                                                                                  > > > I can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK or No
                                                                                                                                                  > > it's not will
                                                                                                                                                  > > suffice.
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > > I've seen how some get about salt around here.
                                                                                                                                                  > =)
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff?
                                                                                                                                                  > > Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > > > Sale!
                                                                                                                                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >

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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10724 From: William Autry Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: salt water tank
                                                                                                                                                  Started my tank looks good put alot of money in it. I put two fish in
                                                                                                                                                  it Yellowtail Damel I have a 30 gallon tank I put a whisperpower
                                                                                                                                                  fillter 60 Seaclone Protien Skimmer 100 Penguin powerhead Visi-therm
                                                                                                                                                  Deluxe heater 100 watt Will that work
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10725 From: Rachel Date: 4/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: overall
                                                                                                                                                  this is cool. my sick little black moore has shed all of his white
                                                                                                                                                  colored tips of his fins. hes moving his gills a lot more and
                                                                                                                                                  wiggling around activly. unfortunantly he is still on his side and i
                                                                                                                                                  noticed a white spot on it. i was wondering if anyone knows if when
                                                                                                                                                  he gets all the way better and has teh energy to swim like he used
                                                                                                                                                  to, if he shall be able to be upright?

                                                                                                                                                  my friends betta is well and truely dead. and quite frankly im
                                                                                                                                                  relieved. i dont know how he died but he was missing a lot of fins.
                                                                                                                                                  maybe my tetras staged a revolt. though i think it had to do more
                                                                                                                                                  with the filter. anyway my tank is back to peaceful happiness, i did
                                                                                                                                                  go out and buy a placostamous today (spellings wrong im sure) hes
                                                                                                                                                  kinda big and that worries me that he wont hav enough room in the
                                                                                                                                                  5.5 gallon tank. i mean the guy said that hed be fine but he also
                                                                                                                                                  said that you could fit 3 goldfish in a 2 gal tank n ididnt mention
                                                                                                                                                  that theyd need more room later. i dont trust people like that.

                                                                                                                                                  does anyone know how much an automatic feeder goes for? i dunwan get
                                                                                                                                                  jipped.

                                                                                                                                                  my plants are kind of sort of dying. any suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                  could too much light kill them??? because ive had to leave it on teh
                                                                                                                                                  past few days because we have no heat at the dorms and its been
                                                                                                                                                  freezing for some reason. it was awfully hot today though.

                                                                                                                                                  i wrote an email to the people at Lees aquarium and pet products,
                                                                                                                                                  which is the company of the filter that i bought. i did this after i
                                                                                                                                                  bought a whole new circular UGF and spent over 20 minutes cleanin
                                                                                                                                                  rinsin n shakin out gray stuff. i did end up just cleaning out the
                                                                                                                                                  whole container again and puttn fresh water in it. i think maybe its
                                                                                                                                                  just really really old.so i pulled the carbon off and hes got
                                                                                                                                                  bubbles from the tubing. its kind of nice looking. im looking into
                                                                                                                                                  different pet stores in my vicinity.

                                                                                                                                                  big question... i made a new friend and he insists that theres no
                                                                                                                                                  need to put anything in the water down here to make it acceptable
                                                                                                                                                  for fish. i don't agree but id liek to know if anybody else thinks
                                                                                                                                                  its cool to have untreated water. hes got 8 aquariums and i live a
                                                                                                                                                  tad more south than he does but i do kno that it takes 20 drops of
                                                                                                                                                  my ph decreaser to get it to 7ph and that doesnt seem like itd be
                                                                                                                                                  cool to let alone like that.
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10726 From: paul helms Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  whoever tim is.....
                                                                                                                                                  --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Use the cartridge that you got wit the H.O.T.
                                                                                                                                                  > Magnum. You can also get a
                                                                                                                                                  > bio-wheel for it to provide for biological
                                                                                                                                                  > filtration.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > And, for Paul, I should mention that Tim Hovanec and
                                                                                                                                                  > I long ago determined
                                                                                                                                                  > that we could agree to disagree on this topic of the
                                                                                                                                                  > use of carbon.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:09 PM
                                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > What do I do with the HOT Magnum canister filter I
                                                                                                                                                  > have? Remember, I'm very
                                                                                                                                                  > new at this. It has carbon in it and a sponge
                                                                                                                                                  > sleeve. If I'm not supposed
                                                                                                                                                  > to use carbon, what do I use?
                                                                                                                                                  > Angela
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                  > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a
                                                                                                                                                  > regular basis does.
                                                                                                                                                  > You say
                                                                                                                                                  > thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances? Do
                                                                                                                                                  > you need a half
                                                                                                                                                  > cup of
                                                                                                                                                  > carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need one
                                                                                                                                                  > cup, or maybe
                                                                                                                                                  > more? What
                                                                                                                                                  > about variations in adsorption rates between
                                                                                                                                                  > batches?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do not use
                                                                                                                                                  > carbon on a
                                                                                                                                                  > regular
                                                                                                                                                  > basis. If you want crystal clear water, use regular
                                                                                                                                                  > water changes
                                                                                                                                                  > and a
                                                                                                                                                  > diatom filter.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                  > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                  > .
                                                                                                                                                  > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                  > that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                  > the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                  > message modify the
                                                                                                                                                  > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                  > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                  > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10727 From: paul helms Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: overall
                                                                                                                                                  ph is really not an issue unless it is drastically
                                                                                                                                                  off. above 5.5 and below 8.5 you are fine.....range
                                                                                                                                                  varies for different fish, but it is sudden changes in
                                                                                                                                                  ph that are stressful. as long as it is not acidic
                                                                                                                                                  enough or basic enough to burn the slime coat, no
                                                                                                                                                  worries. just test ammonia, nitrite and nitrate
                                                                                                                                                  before deciding if treatment is necessary. i take it
                                                                                                                                                  that the ugf you were talking about was a 4-5 inch
                                                                                                                                                  circle for a bowl, and not for a tank? that is the
                                                                                                                                                  only round one i am aware of?
                                                                                                                                                  --- Rachel <star9crystal@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > this is cool. my sick little black moore has shed
                                                                                                                                                  > all of his white
                                                                                                                                                  > colored tips of his fins. hes moving his gills a lot
                                                                                                                                                  > more and
                                                                                                                                                  > wiggling around activly. unfortunantly he is still
                                                                                                                                                  > on his side and i
                                                                                                                                                  > noticed a white spot on it. i was wondering if
                                                                                                                                                  > anyone knows if when
                                                                                                                                                  > he gets all the way better and has teh energy to
                                                                                                                                                  > swim like he used
                                                                                                                                                  > to, if he shall be able to be upright?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > my friends betta is well and truely dead. and quite
                                                                                                                                                  > frankly im
                                                                                                                                                  > relieved. i dont know how he died but he was missing
                                                                                                                                                  > a lot of fins.
                                                                                                                                                  > maybe my tetras staged a revolt. though i think it
                                                                                                                                                  > had to do more
                                                                                                                                                  > with the filter. anyway my tank is back to peaceful
                                                                                                                                                  > happiness, i did
                                                                                                                                                  > go out and buy a placostamous today (spellings wrong
                                                                                                                                                  > im sure) hes
                                                                                                                                                  > kinda big and that worries me that he wont hav
                                                                                                                                                  > enough room in the
                                                                                                                                                  > 5.5 gallon tank. i mean the guy said that hed be
                                                                                                                                                  > fine but he also
                                                                                                                                                  > said that you could fit 3 goldfish in a 2 gal tank n
                                                                                                                                                  > ididnt mention
                                                                                                                                                  > that theyd need more room later. i dont trust people
                                                                                                                                                  > like that.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > does anyone know how much an automatic feeder goes
                                                                                                                                                  > for? i dunwan get
                                                                                                                                                  > jipped.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > my plants are kind of sort of dying. any
                                                                                                                                                  > suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                  > could too much light kill them??? because ive had to
                                                                                                                                                  > leave it on teh
                                                                                                                                                  > past few days because we have no heat at the dorms
                                                                                                                                                  > and its been
                                                                                                                                                  > freezing for some reason. it was awfully hot today
                                                                                                                                                  > though.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > i wrote an email to the people at Lees aquarium and
                                                                                                                                                  > pet products,
                                                                                                                                                  > which is the company of the filter that i bought. i
                                                                                                                                                  > did this after i
                                                                                                                                                  > bought a whole new circular UGF and spent over 20
                                                                                                                                                  > minutes cleanin
                                                                                                                                                  > rinsin n shakin out gray stuff. i did end up just
                                                                                                                                                  > cleaning out the
                                                                                                                                                  > whole container again and puttn fresh water in it. i
                                                                                                                                                  > think maybe its
                                                                                                                                                  > just really really old.so i pulled the carbon off
                                                                                                                                                  > and hes got
                                                                                                                                                  > bubbles from the tubing. its kind of nice looking.
                                                                                                                                                  > im looking into
                                                                                                                                                  > different pet stores in my vicinity.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > big question... i made a new friend and he insists
                                                                                                                                                  > that theres no
                                                                                                                                                  > need to put anything in the water down here to make
                                                                                                                                                  > it acceptable
                                                                                                                                                  > for fish. i don't agree but id liek to know if
                                                                                                                                                  > anybody else thinks
                                                                                                                                                  > its cool to have untreated water. hes got 8
                                                                                                                                                  > aquariums and i live a
                                                                                                                                                  > tad more south than he does but i do kno that it
                                                                                                                                                  > takes 20 drops of
                                                                                                                                                  > my ph decreaser to get it to 7ph and that doesnt
                                                                                                                                                  > seem like itd be
                                                                                                                                                  > cool to let alone like that.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >

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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10728 From: paul helms Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: salt water tank
                                                                                                                                                  if you plan on having live rock, don't use carbon in
                                                                                                                                                  that filter as it draws out all of the essential
                                                                                                                                                  minerals as well as toxins. as for teh damsels, i
                                                                                                                                                  hope that you know they are agressive and territorial.
                                                                                                                                                  don't be surprised if they attack neew fish and
                                                                                                                                                  choose their turf. once they are in, the only way to
                                                                                                                                                  get them out is a trap or a tank dismantle.
                                                                                                                                                  --- William Autry <paulandsue1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Started my tank looks good put alot of money in it.
                                                                                                                                                  > I put two fish in
                                                                                                                                                  > it Yellowtail Damel I have a 30 gallon tank I put a
                                                                                                                                                  > whisperpower
                                                                                                                                                  > fillter 60 Seaclone Protien Skimmer 100 Penguin
                                                                                                                                                  > powerhead Visi-therm
                                                                                                                                                  > Deluxe heater 100 watt Will that work
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >

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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10729 From: Eric Miner Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Sealing wood and rocks
                                                                                                                                                  Hello All,

                                                                                                                                                  I have a question about sealing wood and rocks that will go into my
                                                                                                                                                  new tank. I got some nice wood from my LFS and have some good looking
                                                                                                                                                  rocks that may have a chemical affect on the water.

                                                                                                                                                  I've read and my LFS told me that the wood will lower the pH of the
                                                                                                                                                  tank. It could also discolor the water a bit too. I've also read that
                                                                                                                                                  some people seal the wood using urethane varnish.

                                                                                                                                                  My question is – can I seal the wood and rocks without affecting the
                                                                                                                                                  tank? Is urethane the best thing to use, is there something else that
                                                                                                                                                  would be better?

                                                                                                                                                  Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                  Eric
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10730 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                  There's no cartridge for the carbon.  You just pour out what's in there and pour in new carbon.  The filter is a few years old, so they may have changed it, but it doesn't have a cartridge like my other filters.
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Angela
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Use the cartridge that you got wit the H.O.T.
                                                                                                                                                  > Magnum.  You can also get a
                                                                                                                                                  > bio-wheel for it to provide for biological
                                                                                                                                                  > filtration.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10731 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  I guess I'll have to be more specific from now on. I'm referring
                                                                                                                                                  to "Diamond Crystal" brand Kosher salt, which has no mention of any
                                                                                                                                                  other (anti-caking) ingredients -- and which will cake up badly in
                                                                                                                                                  the presence of high humidity. I guess other brands such
                                                                                                                                                  as "Mortons" may contain anti-caking agents, but I don't think of
                                                                                                                                                  them, as Diamond Crystal seems to be the only one in this area
                                                                                                                                                  packaged in a 3 lb box labeled as Kosher. While I do see Morton's
                                                                                                                                                  and other brands, they are only found in the 1 lb box as "table salt"
                                                                                                                                                  (in this area). Steve, while it may be perfectly safe to use table
                                                                                                                                                  salt (w/anti-caking ingredients and all), I feel; why add other stuff
                                                                                                                                                  to your aquarium (safe or not) if you don't have to? I used to use
                                                                                                                                                  table salt too, way back when . . . , but switched to Diamond Crystal
                                                                                                                                                  for the above reason. We're all aware of the many additives (those
                                                                                                                                                  unpronounceable things) that are found in many packaged foods for
                                                                                                                                                  human consumption, as preservatives, colors, etc., which are
                                                                                                                                                  supposedly safe, but why eat some of that crap if you don't need to.
                                                                                                                                                  That's just my way of thinking -- eat what you want, and add stuff to
                                                                                                                                                  your tank as you want; that's up to you. Ray
                                                                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > Ray,
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Actually, you will find anti-caking agents in many brands of kosher
                                                                                                                                                  salt as
                                                                                                                                                  > well--you did mean anti-caking agents, didn't you?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > There is absolutely no logical reason not to use table salt in an
                                                                                                                                                  aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                  > The anti-caking agents will not harm the fishes, nor will the
                                                                                                                                                  iodine found
                                                                                                                                                  > in table salt, especially if you are doing regular water changes as
                                                                                                                                                  well.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                  > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > No, not okay (because of caking agents -- & iodine), but go to the
                                                                                                                                                  > supermarket (for Kosher salt) instead of the lfs; its a lot
                                                                                                                                                  cheaper.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  Ray

                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  \

                                                                                                                                                  > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK or do I need to wait
                                                                                                                                                  > until
                                                                                                                                                  > > I can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK or No it's not will
                                                                                                                                                  > suffice.
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > I've seen how some get about salt around here. =)
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                  Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10732 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: more
                                                                                                                                                  Leslie, Very important for proper disease I.D. -- Concerning the
                                                                                                                                                  thin flap of white skin-like material that's sticking out of the gill
                                                                                                                                                  plate (if I understand this correctly), is this separate from the
                                                                                                                                                  gill plate/cover or is it attached to the outer edge of the gill
                                                                                                                                                  plate? Reason I ask is that if its attached to the back (outer edge)
                                                                                                                                                  of the gill plate, that's a normal growing part of the gill plate and
                                                                                                                                                  momentarily acts to shut off the reverse flow of the water when the
                                                                                                                                                  fish breathes in water through his mouth -- sort of like a valve.
                                                                                                                                                  This could be infected if its more noticeable than normal. On the
                                                                                                                                                  other hand, if it looks to be separate and protruding from inside of
                                                                                                                                                  the gill plate, it may be part of the actual gills which are swollen -
                                                                                                                                                  - this is a very definite indication of Flukes. This, coupled with
                                                                                                                                                  the jerky movements tells me that this is what it may well be.
                                                                                                                                                  While, as I said, a .3% solution of salt in his aquarium water will
                                                                                                                                                  not kill flukes, a 3% (full three percent0 bath will. In fact, that
                                                                                                                                                  will kill any and all similar parasites (protozoan, etc.) and should
                                                                                                                                                  eradiate anything he may have. While most people don't want to go to
                                                                                                                                                  this much trouble, it's very often a sure cure for just about
                                                                                                                                                  anything of this type. By "Bath", I mean the strong salt solution is
                                                                                                                                                  added to a temporary container (NOT into the quarantine tank), and
                                                                                                                                                  the fish is netted and immersed in this bath for a period of 15 to 30
                                                                                                                                                  minutes, but not longer than when he may be showing signs of
                                                                                                                                                  fatigue. He is then put back into the aquarium. This is done twice
                                                                                                                                                  a day for a few days. In the meantime, Methylene Blue or Malachite
                                                                                                                                                  green can be added to his quarantine tank so that he's not reinfected
                                                                                                                                                  by any parasites in the water. If you want to try this, let me know
                                                                                                                                                  the EXACT capacity of the bath container you might intent to use, and
                                                                                                                                                  I'll tell you Exactly how much salt to use for these temporary
                                                                                                                                                  baths. Ray
                                                                                                                                                  \
                                                                                                                                                  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > He just started the spaz thing today, he wasn't doing this last
                                                                                                                                                  night or
                                                                                                                                                  > I would mentioned it when you did.
                                                                                                                                                  > The gills inside are most certainly red. The part sticking outside
                                                                                                                                                  is
                                                                                                                                                  > white, almost see through it's so thin. Like a thin flap of skin
                                                                                                                                                  just
                                                                                                                                                  > overlapping the gill a little. And the other side started doing the
                                                                                                                                                  > same thing this morning.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Back to the spastic behavior:
                                                                                                                                                  > I first saw him do this under his log where he is hidden very
                                                                                                                                                  well. I
                                                                                                                                                  > could see his tail going wild. He was laying on his right side,
                                                                                                                                                  this is
                                                                                                                                                  > the side with the largest inflammation. It lasted maybe 15-20 secs.
                                                                                                                                                  > When I QT'd him, he did it again but not in the gravel this time,
                                                                                                                                                  just
                                                                                                                                                  > in mid-water. Almost like he was trying to swim fast to get out,
                                                                                                                                                  but I
                                                                                                                                                  > don't think that was it. It was much jerkier than he usually gets,
                                                                                                                                                  even
                                                                                                                                                  > when he's upset.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                  Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                  > On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 6:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: more
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Thank you for this insight -- If by what you're saying, I'm
                                                                                                                                                  guessing
                                                                                                                                                  > correctly. By "He flips around like a fish would out of water", do
                                                                                                                                                  you
                                                                                                                                                  > mean that he is scraping, or "flashing" against the bottom, as I
                                                                                                                                                  had
                                                                                                                                                  > asked you last night? If so, yes, this is a sign of Flukes.
                                                                                                                                                  Flukes is
                                                                                                                                                  > a MICROSCOPIC Trematode. This is the reason you were asked if you
                                                                                                                                                  took
                                                                                                                                                  > a scraping -- you would need to put the scraping under a microscope
                                                                                                                                                  to
                                                                                                                                                  > look for the gill flukes. The large extra piece you see hanging
                                                                                                                                                  out of
                                                                                                                                                  > the gill plate is not a "fluke", however, gill flukes will cause
                                                                                                                                                  the
                                                                                                                                                  > gill itself to protrude out of the gill plate, perhaps this is what
                                                                                                                                                  you
                                                                                                                                                  > are seeing. If its fleshy looking and PALE (Pink) Red, it could
                                                                                                                                                  very
                                                                                                                                                  > well be gill flukes, especially if the rest of the gills are PINK.
                                                                                                                                                  Are
                                                                                                                                                  > you absolutely sure that the gills are not PINK, instead of a
                                                                                                                                                  healthy
                                                                                                                                                  > looking RED? If you see any mucus in or around the gills and they
                                                                                                                                                  are
                                                                                                                                                  > PINK, this is a sure sign of flukes. In that case, treat as soon
                                                                                                                                                  as
                                                                                                                                                  > possible with "FLUKE-TABS", made by AQUARIUM PRODUCTS, a very safe
                                                                                                                                                  and
                                                                                                                                                  > effective medication. Do not bother using SALT as Gill Flukes will
                                                                                                                                                  > withstand the .3% salt solution you would be using. There is also
                                                                                                                                                  > another medication for Flukes called FORMALIN, put out by
                                                                                                                                                  > TETRA/PONDCARE. This treatment is a little rougher, but
                                                                                                                                                  effective.
                                                                                                                                                  > If using this, DO NOT even think about using salt. Please re-check
                                                                                                                                                  > your fish and get back to me. Also, since the tissue surrounding
                                                                                                                                                  the
                                                                                                                                                  > eye has occurred at this same time, the culprit might be SKIN
                                                                                                                                                  FLUKES, a
                                                                                                                                                  > related disease, which also invades the gills, and is treated in
                                                                                                                                                  the
                                                                                                                                                  > same way. Much of your description of this disease on the fish was
                                                                                                                                                  > inadvertantly misleading last night, but we may have a handle on it
                                                                                                                                                  > now, just re-check for the gill color and let me know if
                                                                                                                                                  his "spastic"
                                                                                                                                                  > actions resemble my description.
                                                                                                                                                  Ray
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  \

                                                                                                                                                  > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                  > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > > My infected blood parrot, the one with the large gills, is also
                                                                                                                                                  acting
                                                                                                                                                  > > very spastic. He flips around like a fish would out of water.
                                                                                                                                                  > > Sigh---------
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                  Garage
                                                                                                                                                  > > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                  > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                  thanks
                                                                                                                                                  > .
                                                                                                                                                  > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                  important
                                                                                                                                                  > to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                  modify
                                                                                                                                                  > the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                  > Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > _____
                                                                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 10733 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Ray-Pictures *large
                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :

                                                                                                                                                    I don’t mind doing the salt baths.

                                                                                                                                                    Here are some pictures I just took.  I can’t them to perfectly focused, then he doesn’t still very long for me to try.

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Each is of his right gill.  This flap seems to be under his gill and coming out the front to overlap just a bit.  The left side is the same but not near as obvious.  In fact I think it has gone down some.

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    From:
                                                                                                                                                    AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:22 AM
                                                                                                                                                    To:
                                                                                                                                                    AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    Sub
                                                                                                                                                    ject: [AquaticLife] Re: more

                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                    Leslie,  Very important for proper disease I.D. -- Concerning the
                                                                                                                                                    thin flap of white skin-like material that's sticking out of the gill
                                                                                                                                                    plate (if I understand this correctly), is this separate from the
                                                                                                                                                    gill plate/cover or is it attached to the outer edge of the gill
                                                                                                                                                    plate?  Reason I ask is that if its attached to the back (outer edge)
                                                                                                                                                    of the gill plate, that's a normal growing part of the gill plate and
                                                                                                                                                    momentarily acts to shut off the reverse flow of the water when the
                                                                                                                                                    fish breathes in water through his mouth -- sort of like a valve. 
                                                                                                                                                    This could be infected if its more noticeable than normal.  On the
                                                                                                                                                    other hand, if it looks to be separate and protruding from inside of
                                                                                                                                                    the gill plate, it may be part of the actual gills which are swollen -
                                                                                                                                                    - this is a very definite indication of Flukes.  This, coupled with
                                                                                                                                                    the jerky movements tells me that this is what it may well be. 
                                                                                                                                                    While, as I said, a .3% solution of salt in his aquarium water will
                                                                                                                                                    not kill flukes, a 3% (full three percent0 bath will.  In fact, that
                                                                                                                                                    will kill any and all similar parasites (protozoan, etc.) and should
                                                                                                                                                    eradiate anything he may have.  While most people don't want to go to
                                                                                                                                                    this much trouble, it's very often a sure cure for just about
                                                                                                                                                    anything of this type.  By "Bath", I mean the strong salt solution is
                                                                                                                                                    added to a temporary container (NOT into the quarantine tank), and
                                                                                                                                                    the fish is netted and immersed in this bath for a period of 15 to 30
                                                                                                                                                    minutes, but not longer than when he may be showing signs of
                                                                                                                                                    fatigue.  He is then put back into the aquarium.  This is done twice
                                                                                                                                                    a day for a few days.  In the meantime,  Methylene Blue or Malachite
                                                                                                                                                    green can be added to his quarantine tank so that he's not reinfected
                                                                                                                                                    by any parasites in the water.  If you want to try this, let me know
                                                                                                                                                    the EXACT capacity of the bath container you might intent to use, and
                                                                                                                                                    I'll tell you Exactly how much salt to use for these temporary
                                                                                                                                                    baths.   Ray                                 
                                                                                                                                                    \                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > He just started the spaz thing today, he wasn't doing this last
                                                                                                                                                    night or
                                                                                                                                                    > I would mentioned it when you did. 
                                                                                                                                                    > The gills inside are most certainly red.  The part sticking outside
                                                                                                                                                    is
                                                                                                                                                    > white, almost see through it's so thin.  Like a thin flap of skin
                                                                                                                                                    just
                                                                                                                                                    > overlapping the gill a little.  And the other side started doing the
                                                                                                                                                    > same thing this morning.

                                                                                                                                                    > Back to the spastic behavior:
                                                                                                                                                    > I first saw him do this under his log where he is hidden very
                                                                                                                                                    well.  I
                                                                                                                                                    > could see his tail going wild.  He was laying on his right side,
                                                                                                                                                    this is
                                                                                                                                                    > the side with the largest inflammation.  It lasted maybe 15-20 secs.
                                                                                                                                                    > When I QT'd him, he did it again but not in the gravel this time,
                                                                                                                                                    just
                                                                                                                                                    > in mid-water.  Almost like he was trying to swim fast to get out,
                                                                                                                                                    but I
                                                                                                                                                    > don't think that was it.  It was much jerkier than he usually gets,
                                                                                                                                                    even
                                                                                                                                                    > when he's upset.





                                                                                                                                                    > Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                    Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                    > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                    > On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 6:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: more

                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Thank you for this insight --  If by what you're saying, I'm
                                                                                                                                                    guessing
                                                                                                                                                    > correctly.  By "He flips around like a fish would out of water", do
                                                                                                                                                    you
                                                                                                                                                    > mean that he is scraping, or "flashing" against the bottom, as I
                                                                                                                                                    had
                                                                                                                                                    > asked you last night?  If so, yes, this is a sign of Flukes. 
                                                                                                                                                    Flukes is
                                                                                                                                                    > a MICROSCOPIC Trematode.  This is the reason you were asked if you
                                                                                                                                                    took
                                                                                                                                                    > a scraping -- you would need to put the scraping under a microscope
                                                                                                                                                    to
                                                                                                                                                    > look for the gill flukes.  The large extra piece you see hanging
                                                                                                                                                    out of
                                                                                                                                                    > the gill plate is not a "fluke", however, gill flukes will cause
                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                    > gill itself to protrude out of the gill plate, perhaps this is what
                                                                                                                                                    you
                                                                                                                                                    > are seeing.  If its fleshy looking and PALE (Pink) Red, it could
                                                                                                                                                    very
                                                                                                                                                    > well be gill flukes, especially if the rest of the gills are PINK. 
                                                                                                                                                    Are
                                                                                                                                                    > you absolutely sure that the gills are not PINK, instead of a
                                                                                                                                                    healthy
                                                                                                                                                    > looking RED?  If you see any mucus in or around the gills and they
                                                                                                                                                    are
                                                                                                                                                    > PINK, this is a sure sign of flukes.  In that case, treat as soon
                                                                                                                                                    as
                                                                                                                                                    > possible with "FLUKE-TABS", made by AQUARIUM PRODUCTS, a very safe
                                                                                                                                                    and
                                                                                                                                                    > effective medication.  Do not bother using SALT as Gill Flukes will
                                                                                                                                                    > withstand the .3% salt solution you would be using.  There is also
                                                                                                                                                    > another medication for Flukes called FORMALIN, put out by
                                                                                                                                                    > TETRA/PONDCARE.   This treatment is a little rougher, but
                                                                                                                                                    effective. 
                                                                                                                                                    > If using this, DO NOT even think about using salt.  Please re-check
                                                                                                                                                    > your fish and get back to me.  Also, since the tissue surrounding
                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                    > eye has occurred at this same time, the culprit might be SKIN
                                                                                                                                                    FLUKES, a
                                                                                                                                                    > related disease, which also invades the gills, and is treated in
                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                    > same way.  Much of your description of this disease on the fish was
                                                                                                                                                    > inadvertantly misleading last night, but we may have a handle on it
                                                                                                                                                    > now, just re-check for the gill color and let me know if
                                                                                                                                                    his "spastic"
                                                                                                                                                    > actions resemble my description. 
                                                                                                                                                    Ray                                
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    \                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > My infected blood parrot, the one with the large gills, is also
                                                                                                                                                    acting
                                                                                                                                                    > > very spastic.  He flips around like a fish would out of water.
                                                                                                                                                    > > Sigh---------
                                                                                                                                                    > > 
                                                                                                                                                    > > Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                    Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > > 
                                                                                                                                                    > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                    thanks
                                                                                                                                                    > .
                                                                                                                                                    > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                    important
                                                                                                                                                    > to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                    modify
                                                                                                                                                    > the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we
                                                                                                                                                    > Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10734 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Ray-Pictures *large
                                                                                                                                                    Although not in sharp focus, these pictures are starting to tell me a
                                                                                                                                                    little more. Fish photography is not easy -- worse than trying to
                                                                                                                                                    get a bunch of figgety kids to sit still for a shot (lol). While you
                                                                                                                                                    still haven't said whether this "skin flap" is part of the back edge
                                                                                                                                                    of the gill plate or a separate piece protruding out from under the
                                                                                                                                                    gill plate, I'm going with it being a natural (but infected) part of
                                                                                                                                                    the gill plate. Its still hard to tell from here, with the pictures
                                                                                                                                                    being out of focus, but seems to have that appearance, as best I can
                                                                                                                                                    tell. This flap is usually colored the same as the rest of the fish,
                                                                                                                                                    but much more noticeable if its off-color from infection. While this
                                                                                                                                                    doesn't completely rule out Flukes, it now does seem more like some
                                                                                                                                                    related microscopic parasite instead, with the gills being red as
                                                                                                                                                    they should be. If I could say with 100% certainty that its Flukes,
                                                                                                                                                    I'd recommend the Fluke-Tabs medication. However, the salt baths
                                                                                                                                                    should take care of anything of this nature, including flukes. If
                                                                                                                                                    you want to go the salt bath route, use 24 teaspoons of salt per
                                                                                                                                                    gallon (that's about 1/2 cup per gallon), disolved real well. I know
                                                                                                                                                    this sounds like a lot (it is strong, and has to be), but fish (large
                                                                                                                                                    fish especially) should be able to take this bath for at least 15
                                                                                                                                                    minutes. If he shows no signs of fatigue, up to 30 minutes is even
                                                                                                                                                    better, then put him back in the tank. Ray
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > I don't mind doing the salt baths.
                                                                                                                                                    > Here are some pictures I just took. I can't them to perfectly
                                                                                                                                                    focused,
                                                                                                                                                    > then he doesn't still very long for me to try.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Each is of his right gill. This flap seems to be under his gill and
                                                                                                                                                    > coming out the front to overlap just a bit. The left side is the
                                                                                                                                                    same
                                                                                                                                                    > but not near as obvious. In fact I think it has gone down some.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                    Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                    > On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:22 AM
                                                                                                                                                    > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: more
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Leslie, Very important for proper disease I.D. -- Concerning the
                                                                                                                                                    > thin flap of white skin-like material that's sticking out of the
                                                                                                                                                    gill
                                                                                                                                                    > plate (if I understand this correctly), is this separate from the
                                                                                                                                                    > gill plate/cover or is it attached to the outer edge of the gill
                                                                                                                                                    > plate? Reason I ask is that if its attached to the back (outer
                                                                                                                                                    edge)
                                                                                                                                                    > of the gill plate, that's a normal growing part of the gill plate
                                                                                                                                                    and
                                                                                                                                                    > momentarily acts to shut off the reverse flow of the water when the
                                                                                                                                                    > fish breathes in water through his mouth -- sort of like a valve.
                                                                                                                                                    > This could be infected if its more noticeable than normal. On the
                                                                                                                                                    > other hand, if it looks to be separate and protruding from inside
                                                                                                                                                    of
                                                                                                                                                    > the gill plate, it may be part of the actual gills which are
                                                                                                                                                    swollen -
                                                                                                                                                    > - this is a very definite indication of Flukes. This, coupled with
                                                                                                                                                    > the jerky movements tells me that this is what it may well be.
                                                                                                                                                    > While, as I said, a .3% solution of salt in his aquarium water will
                                                                                                                                                    > not kill flukes, a 3% (full three percent0 bath will. In fact,
                                                                                                                                                    that
                                                                                                                                                    > will kill any and all similar parasites (protozoan, etc.) and
                                                                                                                                                    should
                                                                                                                                                    > eradiate anything he may have. While most people don't want to go
                                                                                                                                                    to
                                                                                                                                                    > this much trouble, it's very often a sure cure for just about
                                                                                                                                                    > anything of this type. By "Bath", I mean the strong salt solution
                                                                                                                                                    is
                                                                                                                                                    > added to a temporary container (NOT into the quarantine tank), and
                                                                                                                                                    > the fish is netted and immersed in this bath for a period of 15 to
                                                                                                                                                    30
                                                                                                                                                    > minutes, but not longer than when he may be showing signs of
                                                                                                                                                    > fatigue. He is then put back into the aquarium. This is done
                                                                                                                                                    twice
                                                                                                                                                    > a day for a few days. In the meantime, Methylene Blue or
                                                                                                                                                    Malachite
                                                                                                                                                    > green can be added to his quarantine tank so that he's not
                                                                                                                                                    reinfected
                                                                                                                                                    > by any parasites in the water. If you want to try this, let me
                                                                                                                                                    know
                                                                                                                                                    > the EXACT capacity of the bath container you might intent to use,
                                                                                                                                                    and
                                                                                                                                                    > I'll tell you Exactly how much salt to use for these temporary
                                                                                                                                                    > baths. Ray
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > He just started the spaz thing today, he wasn't doing this last
                                                                                                                                                    > night or
                                                                                                                                                    > > I would mentioned it when you did.
                                                                                                                                                    > > The gills inside are most certainly red. The part sticking
                                                                                                                                                    outside
                                                                                                                                                    > is
                                                                                                                                                    > > white, almost see through it's so thin. Like a thin flap of skin
                                                                                                                                                    > just
                                                                                                                                                    > > overlapping the gill a little. And the other side started doing
                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                    > > same thing this morning.
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Back to the spastic behavior:
                                                                                                                                                    > > I first saw him do this under his log where he is hidden very
                                                                                                                                                    > well. I
                                                                                                                                                    > > could see his tail going wild. He was laying on his right side,
                                                                                                                                                    > this is
                                                                                                                                                    > > the side with the largest inflammation. It lasted maybe 15-20
                                                                                                                                                    secs.
                                                                                                                                                    > > When I QT'd him, he did it again but not in the gravel this time,
                                                                                                                                                    > just
                                                                                                                                                    > > in mid-water. Almost like he was trying to swim fast to get out,
                                                                                                                                                    > but I
                                                                                                                                                    > > don't think that was it. It was much jerkier than he usually
                                                                                                                                                    gets,
                                                                                                                                                    > even
                                                                                                                                                    > > when he's upset.
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10735 From: Robyn Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: need help with fancy goldfish
                                                                                                                                                    I bought a peasrlscale goldfish yesterday and put him in a tank with
                                                                                                                                                    some grass shrimp and they mutilated him! I immediatly took him out
                                                                                                                                                    theis morning and put him in a seperate tank with a little heater, some
                                                                                                                                                    salt, and an airstone. They tore is scales off and ruined his tail. can
                                                                                                                                                    i get or do anything to help him out and to get his scales, tail to
                                                                                                                                                    grow back? please help me if you can!!!!! i also put him in a quiet
                                                                                                                                                    room where i turned out the lights and covered him to calm down. I also
                                                                                                                                                    put some stress coat in with him?
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10736 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: need help with fancy goldfish

                                                                                                                                                    Stress coat and salt will certainly help. The other tank you have put him in? is the a mature tank? Fish will grow back the torn scales and tail with time (usually a couple of weeks if healthy).

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    I am not aware what grass shrimps are so cannot suggest more then that.

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Robyn
                                                                                                                                                    Sent: 27 April 2005 15:29
                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] need help with fancy goldfish

                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                    I bought a peasrlscale goldfish yesterday and put him in a tank with
                                                                                                                                                    some grass shrimp and they mutilated him! I immediatly took him out
                                                                                                                                                    theis morning and put him in a seperate tank with a little heater, some
                                                                                                                                                    salt, and an airstone. They tore is scales off and ruined his tail. can
                                                                                                                                                    i get or do anything to help him out and to get his scales, tail to
                                                                                                                                                    grow back? please help me if you can!!!!! i also put him in a quiet
                                                                                                                                                    room where i turned out the lights and covered him to calm down. I also
                                                                                                                                                    put some stress coat in with him?





                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10737 From: Robert Hickey Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: need help with fancy goldfish
                                                                                                                                                    Time,
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Some Salt And stress coat and time,
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    the new tank is cycled ? otherwise this will cause a lot of problems,
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Sorry to here about the Fancy Goldfish
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    :o)
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Irish Rob
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Regards
                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey | Networks Engineer Citywest Business Park | BT | Tel: +353 (0)1 43258749
                                                                                                                                                    | Mob: +353 (0)86 8061840 | E: robert.hickey@... | www.btireland.ie
                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                    From: Robyn
                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 3:29 PM
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] need help with fancy goldfish


                                                                                                                                                    I bought a peasrlscale goldfish yesterday and put him in a tank with
                                                                                                                                                    some grass shrimp and they mutilated him! I immediatly took him out
                                                                                                                                                    theis morning and put him in a seperate tank with a little heater, some
                                                                                                                                                    salt, and an airstone. They tore is scales off and ruined his tail. can
                                                                                                                                                    i get or do anything to help him out and to get his scales, tail to
                                                                                                                                                    grow back? please help me if you can!!!!! i also put him in a quiet
                                                                                                                                                    room where i turned out the lights and covered him to calm down. I also
                                                                                                                                                    put some stress coat in with him?





                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10738 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: need help with fancy goldfish
                                                                                                                                                    I took water from the tank he was in to put in the little tank he is in now. Should I add any medicine or food?
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10739 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Ray-Pictures *large

                                                                                                                                                    While you still haven't said whether this "skin flap" is part of the back edge
                                                                                                                                                    of the gill plate or a separate piece protruding out from under the gill plate…”

                                                                                                                                                    That’s because I don’t know.  Without taking him out and pulling his gill back, I can’t see that much detail BEHIND his gill.

                                                                                                                                                    He isn’t breathing as heavy today and his gills aren’t puffing out as much either.  I treated the tank with mal. Green last night.  Is that in combination with salt baths OK or should one not go with the other?  I could try the M.Green again and save him the trauma of the bath.  Then maybe do the bath if the parasite treatment doesn’t work…  Yes? No?

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    From:
                                                                                                                                                    AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:18 AM
                                                                                                                                                    To:
                                                                                                                                                    AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    Sub
                                                                                                                                                    ject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray-Pictures *large

                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                    Although not in sharp focus, these pictures are starting to tell me a
                                                                                                                                                    little more.  Fish photography is not easy  -- worse than trying to
                                                                                                                                                    get a bunch of figgety kids to sit still for a shot (lol).  While you
                                                                                                                                                    still haven't said whether this "skin flap" is part of the back edge
                                                                                                                                                    of the gill plate or a separate piece protruding out from under the
                                                                                                                                                    gill plate, I'm going with it being a natural (but infected) part of
                                                                                                                                                    the gill plate.  Its still hard to tell from here, with the pictures
                                                                                                                                                    being out of focus, but seems to have that appearance, as best I can
                                                                                                                                                    tell.  This flap is usually colored the same as the rest of the fish,
                                                                                                                                                    but much more noticeable if its off-color from infection.  While this
                                                                                                                                                    doesn't completely rule out Flukes, it now does seem more like some
                                                                                                                                                    related microscopic parasite instead, with the gills being red as
                                                                                                                                                    they should be.  If I could say with 100% certainty that its Flukes,
                                                                                                                                                    I'd recommend the Fluke-Tabs medication.  However, the salt baths
                                                                                                                                                    should take care of anything of this nature, including flukes.  If
                                                                                                                                                    you want to go the salt bath route, use 24 teaspoons of salt per
                                                                                                                                                    gallon (that's about 1/2 cup per gallon), disolved real well.  I know
                                                                                                                                                    this sounds like a lot (it is strong, and has to be), but fish (large
                                                                                                                                                    fish especially) should be able to take this bath for at least 15
                                                                                                                                                    minutes.  If he shows no signs of fatigue, up to 30 minutes is even
                                                                                                                                                    better, then put him back in the tank.  Ray                         
                                                                                                                                                    \                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > I don't mind doing the salt baths.
                                                                                                                                                    > Here are some pictures I just took.  I can't them to perfectly
                                                                                                                                                    focused,
                                                                                                                                                    > then he doesn't still very long for me to try.

                                                                                                                                                    > Each is of his right gill.  This flap seems to be under his gill and
                                                                                                                                                    > coming out the front to overlap just a bit.  The left side is the
                                                                                                                                                    same
                                                                                                                                                    > but not near as obvious.  In fact I think it has gone down some.

                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >  

                                                                                                                                                    > Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                    Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                    > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                    > On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:22 AM
                                                                                                                                                    > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: more

                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Leslie,  Very important for proper disease I.D. -- Concerning the
                                                                                                                                                    > thin flap of white skin-like material that's sticking out of the
                                                                                                                                                    gill
                                                                                                                                                    > plate (if I understand this correctly), is this separate from the
                                                                                                                                                    > gill plate/cover or is it attached to the outer edge of the gill
                                                                                                                                                    > plate?  Reason I ask is that if its attached to the back (outer
                                                                                                                                                    edge)
                                                                                                                                                    > of the gill plate, that's a normal growing part of the gill plate
                                                                                                                                                    and
                                                                                                                                                    > momentarily acts to shut off the reverse flow of the water when the
                                                                                                                                                    > fish breathes in water through his mouth -- sort of like a valve. 
                                                                                                                                                    > This could be infected if its more noticeable than normal.  On the
                                                                                                                                                    > other hand, if it looks to be separate and protruding from inside
                                                                                                                                                    of
                                                                                                                                                    > the gill plate, it may be part of the actual gills which are
                                                                                                                                                    swollen -
                                                                                                                                                    > - this is a very definite indication of Flukes.  This, coupled with
                                                                                                                                                    > the jerky movements tells me that this is what it may well be. 
                                                                                                                                                    > While, as I said, a .3% solution of salt in his aquarium water will
                                                                                                                                                    > not kill flukes, a 3% (full three percent0 bath will.  In fact,
                                                                                                                                                    that
                                                                                                                                                    > will kill any and all similar parasites (protozoan, etc.) and
                                                                                                                                                    should
                                                                                                                                                    > eradiate anything he may have.  While most people don't want to go
                                                                                                                                                    to
                                                                                                                                                    > this much trouble, it's very often a sure cure for just about
                                                                                                                                                    > anything of this type.  By "
                                                                                                                                                    Bath", I mean the strong salt solution
                                                                                                                                                    is
                                                                                                                                                    > added to a temporary container (NOT into the quarantine tank), and
                                                                                                                                                    > the fish is netted and immersed in this bath for a period of 15 to
                                                                                                                                                    30
                                                                                                                                                    > minutes, but not longer than when he may be showing signs of
                                                                                                                                                    > fatigue.  He is then put back into the aquarium.  This is done
                                                                                                                                                    twice
                                                                                                                                                    > a day for a few days.  In the meantime,  Methylene Blue or
                                                                                                                                                    Malachite
                                                                                                                                                    > green can be added to his quarantine tank so that he's not
                                                                                                                                                    reinfected
                                                                                                                                                    > by any parasites in the water.  If you want to try this, let me
                                                                                                                                                    know
                                                                                                                                                    > the EXACT capacity of the bath container you might intent to use,
                                                                                                                                                    and
                                                                                                                                                    > I'll tell you Exactly how much salt to use for these temporary
                                                                                                                                                    > baths.   Ray                                 
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    \                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                    > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > He just started the spaz thing today, he wasn't doing this last
                                                                                                                                                    > night or
                                                                                                                                                    > > I would mentioned it when you did. 
                                                                                                                                                    > > The gills inside are most certainly red.  The part sticking
                                                                                                                                                    outside
                                                                                                                                                    > is
                                                                                                                                                    > > white, almost see through it's so thin.  Like a thin flap of skin
                                                                                                                                                    > just
                                                                                                                                                    > > overlapping the gill a little.  And the other side started doing
                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                    > > same thing this morning.
                                                                                                                                                    > > 
                                                                                                                                                    > > Back to the spastic behavior:
                                                                                                                                                    > > I first saw him do this under his log where he is hidden very
                                                                                                                                                    > well.  I
                                                                                                                                                    > > could see his tail going wild.  He was laying on his right side,
                                                                                                                                                    > this is
                                                                                                                                                    > > the side with the largest inflammation.  It lasted maybe 15-20
                                                                                                                                                    secs.
                                                                                                                                                    > > When I QT'd him, he did it again but not in the gravel this time,
                                                                                                                                                    > just
                                                                                                                                                    > > in mid-water.  Almost like he was trying to swim fast to get out,
                                                                                                                                                    > but I
                                                                                                                                                    > > don't think that was it.  It was much jerkier than he usually
                                                                                                                                                    gets,
                                                                                                                                                    > even
                                                                                                                                                    > > when he's upset.
                                                                                                                                                    > > 





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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10740 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Fancy Goldfish...
                                                                                                                                                    Message
                                                                                                                                                    You know for the longest time in my years of having aquariums, I never considered any kind of gold fish for a tank.  I don't know what hit me, a gold fish bug?  But about 2 years ago, I set up a 40 gallon tank with various fancy gold fish.  I'm most intrigued by the calico veil tails.  Some of them are so stunning, especially as they get older.  My favorite is an Oranda orange veil tail with black stripes on his back, and all the way down through his veil tail fins.  Very stunning little one, well actually he's
                                                                                                                                                    --
                                                                                                                                                    Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                                                    Alan
                                                                                                                                                    --
                                                                                                                                                    Chandler, Arizona        Sunset Zone: 13
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                                                                                                                                                     -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:46 AM
                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] need help with fancy goldfish

                                                                                                                                                    Time,
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Some Salt And stress coat and time,
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    the new tank is cycled ? otherwise this will cause a lot of problems,
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Sorry to here about the Fancy Goldfish
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    :o)
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Irish Rob
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Regards
                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey | Networks Engineer Citywest Business Park | BT | Tel: +353 (0)1 43258749
                                                                                                                                                    | Mob: +353 (0)86 8061840 | E: robert.hickey@... | www.btireland.ie
                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                    From: Robyn
                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 3:29 PM
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] need help with fancy goldfish


                                                                                                                                                    I bought a peasrlscale goldfish yesterday and put him in a tank with
                                                                                                                                                    some grass shrimp and they mutilated him! I immediatly took him out
                                                                                                                                                    theis morning and put him in a seperate tank with a little heater, some
                                                                                                                                                    salt, and an airstone. They tore is scales off and ruined his tail. can
                                                                                                                                                    i get or do anything to help him out and to get his scales, tail to
                                                                                                                                                    grow back? please help me if you can!!!!! i also put him in a quiet
                                                                                                                                                    room where i turned out the lights and covered him to calm down. I also
                                                                                                                                                    put some stress coat in with him?





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                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                    .
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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10741 From: Robert Hickey Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: need help with fancy goldfish
                                                                                                                                                    Hmm could have problems keep Checking ammonia And Nitrates and Nirtite level as they will spike and could be more harmfull to you already stressed Fancy goldfish
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Keep the water fresh,
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Do you have a filter in the tank?
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Irish Rob
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Regards
                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey | Networks Engineer Citywest Business Park | BT | Tel: +353 (0)1 43258749
                                                                                                                                                    | Mob: +353 (0)86 8061840 | E: robert.hickey@... | www.btireland.ie
                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 3:49 PM
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] need help with fancy goldfish

                                                                                                                                                    I took water from the tank he was in to put in the little tank he is in now. Should I add any medicine or food?

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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10742 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Ray-Pictures *large
                                                                                                                                                    The fact that he's looking a bit better is encouraging. By all means
                                                                                                                                                    then, continue with the Malachite Green, unless he gets worse (to the
                                                                                                                                                    point that you may have to give him the baths). Yes, you can use
                                                                                                                                                    salt with M. Green, and increase the aeration if possible -- he's a
                                                                                                                                                    good size fish for a 10 gallon tank. By the way, how big is the
                                                                                                                                                    larger tank? Ray
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > "While you still haven't said whether this "skin flap" is part of
                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                    > back edge
                                                                                                                                                    > of the gill plate or a separate piece protruding out from under the
                                                                                                                                                    gill
                                                                                                                                                    > plate."
                                                                                                                                                    > That's because I don't know. Without taking him out and pulling his
                                                                                                                                                    > gill back, I can't see that much detail BEHIND his gill.
                                                                                                                                                    > He isn't breathing as heavy today and his gills aren't puffing out
                                                                                                                                                    as
                                                                                                                                                    > much either. I treated the tank with mal. Green last night. Is
                                                                                                                                                    that in
                                                                                                                                                    > combination with salt baths OK or should one not go with the
                                                                                                                                                    other? I
                                                                                                                                                    > could try the M.Green again and save him the trauma of the bath.
                                                                                                                                                    Then
                                                                                                                                                    > maybe do the bath if the parasite treatment doesn't work. Yes? No?
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                    Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                    > On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:18 AM
                                                                                                                                                    > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray-Pictures *large
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Although not in sharp focus, these pictures are starting to tell me
                                                                                                                                                    a
                                                                                                                                                    > little more. Fish photography is not easy -- worse than trying to
                                                                                                                                                    > get a bunch of figgety kids to sit still for a shot (lol). While
                                                                                                                                                    you
                                                                                                                                                    > still haven't said whether this "skin flap" is part of the back
                                                                                                                                                    edge
                                                                                                                                                    > of the gill plate or a separate piece protruding out from under the
                                                                                                                                                    > gill plate, I'm going with it being a natural (but infected) part
                                                                                                                                                    of
                                                                                                                                                    > the gill plate. Its still hard to tell from here, with the
                                                                                                                                                    pictures
                                                                                                                                                    > being out of focus, but seems to have that appearance, as best I
                                                                                                                                                    can
                                                                                                                                                    > tell. This flap is usually colored the same as the rest of the
                                                                                                                                                    fish,
                                                                                                                                                    > but much more noticeable if its off-color from infection. While
                                                                                                                                                    this
                                                                                                                                                    > doesn't completely rule out Flukes, it now does seem more like some
                                                                                                                                                    > related microscopic parasite instead, with the gills being red as
                                                                                                                                                    > they should be. If I could say with 100% certainty that its
                                                                                                                                                    Flukes,
                                                                                                                                                    > I'd recommend the Fluke-Tabs medication. However, the salt baths
                                                                                                                                                    > should take care of anything of this nature, including flukes. If
                                                                                                                                                    > you want to go the salt bath route, use 24 teaspoons of salt per
                                                                                                                                                    > gallon (that's about 1/2 cup per gallon), disolved real well. I
                                                                                                                                                    know
                                                                                                                                                    > this sounds like a lot (it is strong, and has to be), but fish
                                                                                                                                                    (large
                                                                                                                                                    > fish especially) should be able to take this bath for at least 15
                                                                                                                                                    > minutes. If he shows no signs of fatigue, up to 30 minutes is even
                                                                                                                                                    > better, then put him back in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                    Ray
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > I don't mind doing the salt baths.
                                                                                                                                                    > > Here are some pictures I just took. I can't them to perfectly
                                                                                                                                                    > focused,
                                                                                                                                                    > > then he doesn't still very long for me to try.
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Each is of his right gill. This flap seems to be under his gill
                                                                                                                                                    and
                                                                                                                                                    > > coming out the front to overlap just a bit. The left side is the
                                                                                                                                                    > same
                                                                                                                                                    > > but not near as obvious. In fact I think it has gone down some.
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                    > Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                    > > On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:22 AM
                                                                                                                                                    > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: more
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Leslie, Very important for proper disease I.D. -- Concerning the
                                                                                                                                                    > > thin flap of white skin-like material that's sticking out of the
                                                                                                                                                    > gill
                                                                                                                                                    > > plate (if I understand this correctly), is this separate from the
                                                                                                                                                    > > gill plate/cover or is it attached to the outer edge of the gill
                                                                                                                                                    > > plate? Reason I ask is that if its attached to the back (outer
                                                                                                                                                    > edge)
                                                                                                                                                    > > of the gill plate, that's a normal growing part of the gill plate
                                                                                                                                                    > and
                                                                                                                                                    > > momentarily acts to shut off the reverse flow of the water when
                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                    > > fish breathes in water through his mouth -- sort of like a
                                                                                                                                                    valve.
                                                                                                                                                    > > This could be infected if its more noticeable than normal. On
                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                    > > other hand, if it looks to be separate and protruding from inside
                                                                                                                                                    > of
                                                                                                                                                    > > the gill plate, it may be part of the actual gills which are
                                                                                                                                                    > swollen -
                                                                                                                                                    > > - this is a very definite indication of Flukes. This, coupled
                                                                                                                                                    with
                                                                                                                                                    > > the jerky movements tells me that this is what it may well be.
                                                                                                                                                    > > While, as I said, a .3% solution of salt in his aquarium water
                                                                                                                                                    will
                                                                                                                                                    > > not kill flukes, a 3% (full three percent0 bath will. In fact,
                                                                                                                                                    > that
                                                                                                                                                    > > will kill any and all similar parasites (protozoan, etc.) and
                                                                                                                                                    > should
                                                                                                                                                    > > eradiate anything he may have. While most people don't want to
                                                                                                                                                    go
                                                                                                                                                    > to
                                                                                                                                                    > > this much trouble, it's very often a sure cure for just about
                                                                                                                                                    > > anything of this type. By "Bath", I mean the strong salt
                                                                                                                                                    solution
                                                                                                                                                    > is
                                                                                                                                                    > > added to a temporary container (NOT into the quarantine tank),
                                                                                                                                                    and
                                                                                                                                                    > > the fish is netted and immersed in this bath for a period of 15
                                                                                                                                                    to
                                                                                                                                                    > 30
                                                                                                                                                    > > minutes, but not longer than when he may be showing signs of
                                                                                                                                                    > > fatigue. He is then put back into the aquarium. This is done
                                                                                                                                                    > twice
                                                                                                                                                    > > a day for a few days. In the meantime, Methylene Blue or
                                                                                                                                                    > Malachite
                                                                                                                                                    > > green can be added to his quarantine tank so that he's not
                                                                                                                                                    > reinfected
                                                                                                                                                    > > by any parasites in the water. If you want to try this, let me
                                                                                                                                                    > know
                                                                                                                                                    > > the EXACT capacity of the bath container you might intent to use,
                                                                                                                                                    > and
                                                                                                                                                    > > I'll tell you Exactly how much salt to use for these temporary
                                                                                                                                                    > > baths. Ray
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > He just started the spaz thing today, he wasn't doing this last
                                                                                                                                                    > > night or
                                                                                                                                                    > > > I would mentioned it when you did.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > The gills inside are most certainly red. The part sticking
                                                                                                                                                    > outside
                                                                                                                                                    > > is
                                                                                                                                                    > > > white, almost see through it's so thin. Like a thin flap of
                                                                                                                                                    skin
                                                                                                                                                    > > just
                                                                                                                                                    > > > overlapping the gill a little. And the other side started
                                                                                                                                                    doing
                                                                                                                                                    > the
                                                                                                                                                    > > > same thing this morning.
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Back to the spastic behavior:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > I first saw him do this under his log where he is hidden very
                                                                                                                                                    > > well. I
                                                                                                                                                    > > > could see his tail going wild. He was laying on his right
                                                                                                                                                    side,
                                                                                                                                                    > > this is
                                                                                                                                                    > > > the side with the largest inflammation. It lasted maybe 15-20
                                                                                                                                                    > secs.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > When I QT'd him, he did it again but not in the gravel this
                                                                                                                                                    time,
                                                                                                                                                    > > just
                                                                                                                                                    > > > in mid-water. Almost like he was trying to swim fast to get
                                                                                                                                                    out,
                                                                                                                                                    > > but I
                                                                                                                                                    > > > don't think that was it. It was much jerkier than he usually
                                                                                                                                                    > gets,
                                                                                                                                                    > > even
                                                                                                                                                    > > > when he's upset.
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                    thanks
                                                                                                                                                    > .
                                                                                                                                                    > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                    important
                                                                                                                                                    > to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                    modify
                                                                                                                                                    > the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                    > Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > _____
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10743 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Ray-Pictures *large

                                                                                                                                                    They are in a 55 gal.  We have a 75 gal that we were suppose to have here weeks ago but we don’t have it yet.  I’ll be glad when we do.  I hate how narrow/tall this tank is.  The bigger one will give much more surface area for these guys.

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    I have a bubble wand in the 10 gal. tank right now and he literally sits in the bubble wall.

                                                                                                                                                    Is this enough?

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    From:
                                                                                                                                                    AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:48 AM
                                                                                                                                                    To:
                                                                                                                                                    AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    Sub
                                                                                                                                                    ject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray-Pictures *large

                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                    The fact that he's looking a bit better is encouraging.  By all means
                                                                                                                                                    then, continue with the Malachite Green, unless he gets worse (to the
                                                                                                                                                    point that you may have to give him the baths).  Yes, you can use
                                                                                                                                                    salt with M. Green, and increase the aeration if possible -- he's a
                                                                                                                                                    good size fish for a 10 gallon tank.  By the way, how big is the
                                                                                                                                                    larger tank?  Ray                                                   
                                                                                                                                                    \                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > "While you still haven't said whether this "skin flap" is part of
                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                    > back edge
                                                                                                                                                    > of the gill plate or a separate piece protruding out from under the
                                                                                                                                                    gill
                                                                                                                                                    > plate."
                                                                                                                                                    > That's because I don't know.  Without taking him out and pulling his
                                                                                                                                                    > gill back, I can't see that much detail BEHIND his gill.
                                                                                                                                                    > He isn't breathing as heavy today and his gills aren't puffing out
                                                                                                                                                    as
                                                                                                                                                    > much either.  I treated the tank with mal. Green last night.  Is
                                                                                                                                                    that in
                                                                                                                                                    > combination with salt baths OK or should one not go with the
                                                                                                                                                    other?  I
                                                                                                                                                    > could try the M.Green again and save him the trauma of the bath. 
                                                                                                                                                    Then
                                                                                                                                                    > maybe do the bath if the parasite treatment doesn't work.  Yes? No?

                                                                                                                                                    > Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                    Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                    > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                    > On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:18 AM
                                                                                                                                                    > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray-Pictures *large

                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Although not in sharp focus, these pictures are starting to tell me
                                                                                                                                                    a
                                                                                                                                                    > little more.  Fish photography is not easy  -- worse than trying to
                                                                                                                                                    > get a bunch of figgety kids to sit still for a shot (lol).  While
                                                                                                                                                    you
                                                                                                                                                    > still haven't said whether this "skin flap" is part of the back
                                                                                                                                                    edge
                                                                                                                                                    > of the gill plate or a separate piece protruding out from under the
                                                                                                                                                    > gill plate, I'm going with it being a natural (but infected) part
                                                                                                                                                    of
                                                                                                                                                    > the gill plate.  Its still hard to tell from here, with the
                                                                                                                                                    pictures
                                                                                                                                                    > being out of focus, but seems to have that appearance, as best I
                                                                                                                                                    can
                                                                                                                                                    > tell.  This flap is usually colored the same as the rest of the
                                                                                                                                                    fish,
                                                                                                                                                    > but much more noticeable if its off-color from infection.  While
                                                                                                                                                    this
                                                                                                                                                    > doesn't completely rule out Flukes, it now does seem more like some
                                                                                                                                                    > related microscopic parasite instead, with the gills being red as
                                                                                                                                                    > they should be.  If I could say with 100% certainty that its
                                                                                                                                                    Flukes,
                                                                                                                                                    > I'd recommend the Fluke-Tabs medication.  However, the salt baths
                                                                                                                                                    > should take care of anything of this nature, including flukes.  If
                                                                                                                                                    > you want to go the salt bath route, use 24 teaspoons of salt per
                                                                                                                                                    > gallon (that's about 1/2 cup per gallon), disolved real well.  I
                                                                                                                                                    know
                                                                                                                                                    > this sounds like a lot (it is strong, and has to be), but fish
                                                                                                                                                    (large
                                                                                                                                                    > fish especially) should be able to take this bath for at least 15
                                                                                                                                                    > minutes.  If he shows no signs of fatigue, up to 30 minutes is even
                                                                                                                                                    > better, then put him back in the tank. 
                                                                                                                                                    Ray                         
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    \                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                    > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > I don't mind doing the salt baths.
                                                                                                                                                    > > Here are some pictures I just took.  I can't them to perfectly
                                                                                                                                                    > focused,
                                                                                                                                                    > > then he doesn't still very long for me to try.
                                                                                                                                                    > > 
                                                                                                                                                    > > Each is of his right gill.  This flap seems to be under his gill
                                                                                                                                                    and
                                                                                                                                                    > > coming out the front to overlap just a bit.  The left side is the
                                                                                                                                                    > same
                                                                                                                                                    > > but not near as obvious.  In fact I think it has gone down some.
                                                                                                                                                    > > 
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >  
                                                                                                                                                    > > 
                                                                                                                                                    > > Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                    > Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > > 
                                                                                                                                                    > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                    > > On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:22 AM
                                                                                                                                                    > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: more
                                                                                                                                                    > > 
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Leslie,  Very important for proper disease I.D. -- Concerning the
                                                                                                                                                    > > thin flap of white skin-like material that's sticking out of the
                                                                                                                                                    > gill
                                                                                                                                                    > > plate (if I understand this correctly), is this separate from the
                                                                                                                                                    > > gill plate/cover or is it attached to the outer edge of the gill
                                                                                                                                                    > > plate?  Reason I ask is that if its attached to the back (outer
                                                                                                                                                    > edge)
                                                                                                                                                    > > of the gill plate, that's a normal growing part of the gill plate
                                                                                                                                                    > and
                                                                                                                                                    > > momentarily acts to shut off the reverse flow of the water when
                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                    > > fish breathes in water through his mouth -- sort of like a
                                                                                                                                                    valve. 
                                                                                                                                                    > > This could be infected if its more noticeable than normal.  On
                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                    > > other hand, if it looks to be separate and protruding from inside
                                                                                                                                                    > of
                                                                                                                                                    > > the gill plate, it may be part of the actual gills which are
                                                                                                                                                    > swollen -
                                                                                                                                                    > > - this is a very definite indication of Flukes.  This, coupled
                                                                                                                                                    with
                                                                                                                                                    > > the jerky movements tells me that this is what it may well be. 
                                                                                                                                                    > > While, as I said, a .3% solution of salt in his aquarium water
                                                                                                                                                    will
                                                                                                                                                    > > not kill flukes, a 3% (full three percent0 bath will.  In fact,
                                                                                                                                                    > that
                                                                                                                                                    > > will kill any and all similar parasites (protozoan, etc.) and
                                                                                                                                                    > should
                                                                                                                                                    > > eradiate anything he may have.  While most people don't want to
                                                                                                                                                    go
                                                                                                                                                    > to
                                                                                                                                                    > > this much trouble, it's very often a sure cure for just about
                                                                                                                                                    > > anything of this type.  By "Bath", I mean the strong salt
                                                                                                                                                    solution
                                                                                                                                                    > is
                                                                                                                                                    > > added to a temporary container (NOT into the quarantine tank),
                                                                                                                                                    and
                                                                                                                                                    > > the fish is netted and immersed in this bath for a period of 15
                                                                                                                                                    to
                                                                                                                                                    > 30
                                                                                                                                                    > > minutes, but not longer than when he may be showing signs of
                                                                                                                                                    > > fatigue.  He is then put back into the aquarium.  This is done
                                                                                                                                                    > twice
                                                                                                                                                    > > a day for a few days.  In the meantime,  Methylene Blue or
                                                                                                                                                    > Malachite
                                                                                                                                                    > > green can be added to his quarantine tank so that he's not
                                                                                                                                                    > reinfected
                                                                                                                                                    > > by any parasites in the water.  If you want to try this, let me
                                                                                                                                                    > know
                                                                                                                                                    > > the EXACT capacity of the bath container you might intent to use,
                                                                                                                                                    > and
                                                                                                                                                    > > I'll tell you Exactly how much salt to use for these temporary
                                                                                                                                                    > > baths.   Ray                                 
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    \                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                    > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > He just started the spaz thing today, he wasn't doing this last
                                                                                                                                                    > > night or
                                                                                                                                                    > > > I would mentioned it when you did. 
                                                                                                                                                    > > > The gills inside are most certainly red.  The part sticking
                                                                                                                                                    > outside
                                                                                                                                                    > > is
                                                                                                                                                    > > > white, almost see through it's so thin.  Like a thin flap of
                                                                                                                                                    skin
                                                                                                                                                    > > just
                                                                                                                                                    > > > overlapping the gill a little.  And the other side started
                                                                                                                                                    doing
                                                                                                                                                    > the
                                                                                                                                                    > > > same thing this morning.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > 
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Back to the spastic behavior:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > I first saw him do this under his log where he is hidden very
                                                                                                                                                    > > well.  I
                                                                                                                                                    > > > could see his tail going wild.  He was laying on his right
                                                                                                                                                    side,
                                                                                                                                                    > > this is
                                                                                                                                                    > > > the side with the largest inflammation.  It lasted maybe 15-20
                                                                                                                                                    > secs.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > When I QT'd him, he did it again but not in the gravel this
                                                                                                                                                    time,
                                                                                                                                                    > > just
                                                                                                                                                    > > > in mid-water.  Almost like he was trying to swim fast to get
                                                                                                                                                    out,
                                                                                                                                                    > > but I
                                                                                                                                                    > > > don't think that was it.  It was much jerkier than he usually
                                                                                                                                                    > gets,
                                                                                                                                                    > > even
                                                                                                                                                    > > > when he's upset.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > 
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                    thanks
                                                                                                                                                    > .
                                                                                                                                                    > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                    important
                                                                                                                                                    > to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                    modify
                                                                                                                                                    > the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we
                                                                                                                                                    > Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >   _____ 
                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10744 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Ray-Pictures *large
                                                                                                                                                    That's fine -- that bubble wand should be plenty of aeration. Keep
                                                                                                                                                    an eye on the ammonia and nitrite values in the 10 gallon. You're
                                                                                                                                                    going to love the 75 (and so are the fish) when you get it set up.
                                                                                                                                                    Ray
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > They are in a 55 gal. We have a 75 gal that we were suppose to have
                                                                                                                                                    > here weeks ago but we don't have it yet. I'll be glad when we do.
                                                                                                                                                    I
                                                                                                                                                    > hate how narrow/tall this tank is. The bigger one will give much
                                                                                                                                                    more
                                                                                                                                                    > surface area for these guys.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > I have a bubble wand in the 10 gal. tank right now and he literally
                                                                                                                                                    sits
                                                                                                                                                    > in the bubble wall.
                                                                                                                                                    > Is this enough?
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                    Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                    > On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:48 AM
                                                                                                                                                    > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray-Pictures *large
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > The fact that he's looking a bit better is encouraging. By all
                                                                                                                                                    means
                                                                                                                                                    > then, continue with the Malachite Green, unless he gets worse (to
                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                    > point that you may have to give him the baths). Yes, you can use
                                                                                                                                                    > salt with M. Green, and increase the aeration if possible -- he's a
                                                                                                                                                    > good size fish for a 10 gallon tank. By the way, how big is the
                                                                                                                                                    > larger tank?
                                                                                                                                                    Ray
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > "While you still haven't said whether this "skin flap" is part of
                                                                                                                                                    > the
                                                                                                                                                    > > back edge
                                                                                                                                                    > > of the gill plate or a separate piece protruding out from under
                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                    > gill
                                                                                                                                                    > > plate."
                                                                                                                                                    > > That's because I don't know. Without taking him out and pulling
                                                                                                                                                    his
                                                                                                                                                    > > gill back, I can't see that much detail BEHIND his gill.
                                                                                                                                                    > > He isn't breathing as heavy today and his gills aren't puffing
                                                                                                                                                    out
                                                                                                                                                    > as
                                                                                                                                                    > > much either. I treated the tank with mal. Green last night. Is
                                                                                                                                                    > that in
                                                                                                                                                    > > combination with salt baths OK or should one not go with the
                                                                                                                                                    > other? I
                                                                                                                                                    > > could try the M.Green again and save him the trauma of the bath.
                                                                                                                                                    > Then
                                                                                                                                                    > > maybe do the bath if the parasite treatment doesn't work. Yes?
                                                                                                                                                    No?
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                    > Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                    > > On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:18 AM
                                                                                                                                                    > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray-Pictures *large
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Although not in sharp focus, these pictures are starting to tell
                                                                                                                                                    me
                                                                                                                                                    > a
                                                                                                                                                    > > little more. Fish photography is not easy -- worse than trying
                                                                                                                                                    to
                                                                                                                                                    > > get a bunch of figgety kids to sit still for a shot (lol). While
                                                                                                                                                    > you
                                                                                                                                                    > > still haven't said whether this "skin flap" is part of the back
                                                                                                                                                    > edge
                                                                                                                                                    > > of the gill plate or a separate piece protruding out from under
                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                    > > gill plate, I'm going with it being a natural (but infected) part
                                                                                                                                                    > of
                                                                                                                                                    > > the gill plate. Its still hard to tell from here, with the
                                                                                                                                                    > pictures
                                                                                                                                                    > > being out of focus, but seems to have that appearance, as best I
                                                                                                                                                    > can
                                                                                                                                                    > > tell. This flap is usually colored the same as the rest of the
                                                                                                                                                    > fish,
                                                                                                                                                    > > but much more noticeable if its off-color from infection. While
                                                                                                                                                    > this
                                                                                                                                                    > > doesn't completely rule out Flukes, it now does seem more like
                                                                                                                                                    some
                                                                                                                                                    > > related microscopic parasite instead, with the gills being red as
                                                                                                                                                    > > they should be. If I could say with 100% certainty that its
                                                                                                                                                    > Flukes,
                                                                                                                                                    > > I'd recommend the Fluke-Tabs medication. However, the salt baths
                                                                                                                                                    > > should take care of anything of this nature, including flukes.
                                                                                                                                                    If
                                                                                                                                                    > > you want to go the salt bath route, use 24 teaspoons of salt per
                                                                                                                                                    > > gallon (that's about 1/2 cup per gallon), disolved real well. I
                                                                                                                                                    > know
                                                                                                                                                    > > this sounds like a lot (it is strong, and has to be), but fish
                                                                                                                                                    > (large
                                                                                                                                                    > > fish especially) should be able to take this bath for at least 15
                                                                                                                                                    > > minutes. If he shows no signs of fatigue, up to 30 minutes is
                                                                                                                                                    even
                                                                                                                                                    > > better, then put him back in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                    > Ray
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > I don't mind doing the salt baths.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Here are some pictures I just took. I can't them to perfectly
                                                                                                                                                    > > focused,
                                                                                                                                                    > > > then he doesn't still very long for me to try.
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Each is of his right gill. This flap seems to be under his
                                                                                                                                                    gill
                                                                                                                                                    > and
                                                                                                                                                    > > > coming out the front to overlap just a bit. The left side is
                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                    > > same
                                                                                                                                                    > > > but not near as obvious. In fact I think it has gone down some.
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                    > > Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                    > > > On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:22 AM
                                                                                                                                                    > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: more
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Leslie, Very important for proper disease I.D. -- Concerning
                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                    > > > thin flap of white skin-like material that's sticking out of
                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                    > > gill
                                                                                                                                                    > > > plate (if I understand this correctly), is this separate from
                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                    > > > gill plate/cover or is it attached to the outer edge of the
                                                                                                                                                    gill
                                                                                                                                                    > > > plate? Reason I ask is that if its attached to the back (outer
                                                                                                                                                    > > edge)
                                                                                                                                                    > > > of the gill plate, that's a normal growing part of the gill
                                                                                                                                                    plate
                                                                                                                                                    > > and
                                                                                                                                                    > > > momentarily acts to shut off the reverse flow of the water when
                                                                                                                                                    > the
                                                                                                                                                    > > > fish breathes in water through his mouth -- sort of like a
                                                                                                                                                    > valve.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > This could be infected if its more noticeable than normal. On
                                                                                                                                                    > the
                                                                                                                                                    > > > other hand, if it looks to be separate and protruding from
                                                                                                                                                    inside
                                                                                                                                                    > > of
                                                                                                                                                    > > > the gill plate, it may be part of the actual gills which are
                                                                                                                                                    > > swollen -
                                                                                                                                                    > > > - this is a very definite indication of Flukes. This, coupled
                                                                                                                                                    > with
                                                                                                                                                    > > > the jerky movements tells me that this is what it may well be.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > While, as I said, a .3% solution of salt in his aquarium water
                                                                                                                                                    > will
                                                                                                                                                    > > > not kill flukes, a 3% (full three percent0 bath will. In fact,
                                                                                                                                                    > > that
                                                                                                                                                    > > > will kill any and all similar parasites (protozoan, etc.) and
                                                                                                                                                    > > should
                                                                                                                                                    > > > eradiate anything he may have. While most people don't want to
                                                                                                                                                    > go
                                                                                                                                                    > > to
                                                                                                                                                    > > > this much trouble, it's very often a sure cure for just about
                                                                                                                                                    > > > anything of this type. By "Bath", I mean the strong salt
                                                                                                                                                    > solution
                                                                                                                                                    > > is
                                                                                                                                                    > > > added to a temporary container (NOT into the quarantine tank),
                                                                                                                                                    > and
                                                                                                                                                    > > > the fish is netted and immersed in this bath for a period of 15
                                                                                                                                                    > to
                                                                                                                                                    > > 30
                                                                                                                                                    > > > minutes, but not longer than when he may be showing signs of
                                                                                                                                                    > > > fatigue. He is then put back into the aquarium. This is done
                                                                                                                                                    > > twice
                                                                                                                                                    > > > a day for a few days. In the meantime, Methylene Blue or
                                                                                                                                                    > > Malachite
                                                                                                                                                    > > > green can be added to his quarantine tank so that he's not
                                                                                                                                                    > > reinfected
                                                                                                                                                    > > > by any parasites in the water. If you want to try this, let me
                                                                                                                                                    > > know
                                                                                                                                                    > > > the EXACT capacity of the bath container you might intent to
                                                                                                                                                    use,
                                                                                                                                                    > > and
                                                                                                                                                    > > > I'll tell you Exactly how much salt to use for these temporary
                                                                                                                                                    > > > baths. Ray
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > > > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > He just started the spaz thing today, he wasn't doing this
                                                                                                                                                    last
                                                                                                                                                    > > > night or
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I would mentioned it when you did.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > The gills inside are most certainly red. The part sticking
                                                                                                                                                    > > outside
                                                                                                                                                    > > > is
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > white, almost see through it's so thin. Like a thin flap of
                                                                                                                                                    > skin
                                                                                                                                                    > > > just
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > overlapping the gill a little. And the other side started
                                                                                                                                                    > doing
                                                                                                                                                    > > the
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > same thing this morning.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Back to the spastic behavior:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I first saw him do this under his log where he is hidden very
                                                                                                                                                    > > > well. I
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > could see his tail going wild. He was laying on his right
                                                                                                                                                    > side,
                                                                                                                                                    > > > this is
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > the side with the largest inflammation. It lasted maybe 15-
                                                                                                                                                    20
                                                                                                                                                    > > secs.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > When I QT'd him, he did it again but not in the gravel this
                                                                                                                                                    > time,
                                                                                                                                                    > > > just
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > in mid-water. Almost like he was trying to swim fast to get
                                                                                                                                                    > out,
                                                                                                                                                    > > > but I
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > don't think that was it. It was much jerkier than he usually
                                                                                                                                                    > > gets,
                                                                                                                                                    > > > even
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > when he's upset.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                    > thanks
                                                                                                                                                    > > .
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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10745 From: cireman1933 Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Hello all...
                                                                                                                                                    Just wanted to say hi and introduce myself to the group. My name is
                                                                                                                                                    Michael and I am a new memeber. I currently have a 20 gallon tank with
                                                                                                                                                    3 fancy male guppies, 4 mystery snails, 3 clown barbs and 2 cherry
                                                                                                                                                    barbs. I am thinking about buying a few female fancy guppies to mate
                                                                                                                                                    with the males and selling the babies. Any opinions from the group..
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10746 From: paul helms Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    ray,
                                                                                                                                                    diamond crystal is probably the most popular brand of
                                                                                                                                                    "kosher salt" because it is real kosher salt. you are
                                                                                                                                                    correct that it does clup in humidity , but it also
                                                                                                                                                    crushes back to crystals easily because it is just
                                                                                                                                                    salt. it is the brand used in most professional
                                                                                                                                                    kitchens as well. i happen to have 2 3lb boxes in my
                                                                                                                                                    home kitchen that i get at work because it is less
                                                                                                                                                    than 2 bucks there. i personally do not add salt to
                                                                                                                                                    fresh water tanks, but i do cook with diamond. every
                                                                                                                                                    kitchen that i have toured uses it in CA, as well as
                                                                                                                                                    in Vegas and reno in the big hotels. why use crappy
                                                                                                                                                    salt when the real thing is so cheap? last time we
                                                                                                                                                    went round on this topic i posted from morton, and
                                                                                                                                                    then do have a real kosher salt, and a kosher style
                                                                                                                                                    table salt.
                                                                                                                                                    paul
                                                                                                                                                    --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > I guess I'll have to be more specific from now on.
                                                                                                                                                    > I'm referring
                                                                                                                                                    > to "Diamond Crystal" brand Kosher salt, which has no
                                                                                                                                                    > mention of any
                                                                                                                                                    > other (anti-caking) ingredients -- and which will
                                                                                                                                                    > cake up badly in
                                                                                                                                                    > the presence of high humidity. I guess other brands
                                                                                                                                                    > such
                                                                                                                                                    > as "Mortons" may contain anti-caking agents, but I
                                                                                                                                                    > don't think of
                                                                                                                                                    > them, as Diamond Crystal seems to be the only one in
                                                                                                                                                    > this area
                                                                                                                                                    > packaged in a 3 lb box labeled as Kosher. While I
                                                                                                                                                    > do see Morton's
                                                                                                                                                    > and other brands, they are only found in the 1 lb
                                                                                                                                                    > box as "table salt"
                                                                                                                                                    > (in this area). Steve, while it may be perfectly
                                                                                                                                                    > safe to use table
                                                                                                                                                    > salt (w/anti-caking ingredients and all), I feel;
                                                                                                                                                    > why add other stuff
                                                                                                                                                    > to your aquarium (safe or not) if you don't have to?
                                                                                                                                                    > I used to use
                                                                                                                                                    > table salt too, way back when . . . , but switched
                                                                                                                                                    > to Diamond Crystal
                                                                                                                                                    > for the above reason. We're all aware of the many
                                                                                                                                                    > additives (those
                                                                                                                                                    > unpronounceable things) that are found in many
                                                                                                                                                    > packaged foods for
                                                                                                                                                    > human consumption, as preservatives, colors, etc.,
                                                                                                                                                    > which are
                                                                                                                                                    > supposedly safe, but why eat some of that crap if
                                                                                                                                                    > you don't need to.
                                                                                                                                                    > That's just my way of thinking -- eat what you want,
                                                                                                                                                    > and add stuff to
                                                                                                                                                    > your tank as you want; that's up to you. Ray
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > \
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo"
                                                                                                                                                    > <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > Ray,
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Actually, you will find anti-caking agents in many
                                                                                                                                                    > brands of kosher
                                                                                                                                                    > salt as
                                                                                                                                                    > > well--you did mean anti-caking agents, didn't you?
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > There is absolutely no logical reason not to use
                                                                                                                                                    > table salt in an
                                                                                                                                                    > aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                    > > The anti-caking agents will not harm the fishes,
                                                                                                                                                    > nor will the
                                                                                                                                                    > iodine found
                                                                                                                                                    > > in table salt, especially if you are doing regular
                                                                                                                                                    > water changes as
                                                                                                                                                    > well.
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    > > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > No, not okay (because of caking agents -- &
                                                                                                                                                    > iodine), but go to the
                                                                                                                                                    > > supermarket (for Kosher salt) instead of the lfs;
                                                                                                                                                    > its a lot
                                                                                                                                                    > cheaper.
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > Ray
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > \
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie
                                                                                                                                                    > Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK or
                                                                                                                                                    > do I need to wait
                                                                                                                                                    > > until
                                                                                                                                                    > > > I can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK or No
                                                                                                                                                    > it's not will
                                                                                                                                                    > > suffice.
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > I've seen how some get about salt around here.
                                                                                                                                                    > =)
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff?
                                                                                                                                                    > Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                    > Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Sale!
                                                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >

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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10747 From: paul helms Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Sealing wood and rocks
                                                                                                                                                    i would not do that if i were you... i have no data to
                                                                                                                                                    say anything, but common sense would say not to do
                                                                                                                                                    that. urethane will probably break down in water over
                                                                                                                                                    time. it makes things water resistant, but not water
                                                                                                                                                    proof. soak the wood in buckets until it stops
                                                                                                                                                    coloring the water, and you should be fine. about 2
                                                                                                                                                    weeks. as for rocks, if they do not come from fresh
                                                                                                                                                    water don't put em there. my 5 cents.
                                                                                                                                                    --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Hello All,
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > I have a question about sealing wood and rocks that
                                                                                                                                                    > will go into my
                                                                                                                                                    > new tank. I got some nice wood from my LFS and have
                                                                                                                                                    > some good looking
                                                                                                                                                    > rocks that may have a chemical affect on the water.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > I've read and my LFS told me that the wood will
                                                                                                                                                    > lower the pH of the
                                                                                                                                                    > tank. It could also discolor the water a bit too.
                                                                                                                                                    > I've also read that
                                                                                                                                                    > some people seal the wood using urethane varnish.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > My question is � can I seal the wood and rocks
                                                                                                                                                    > without affecting the
                                                                                                                                                    > tank? Is urethane the best thing to use, is there
                                                                                                                                                    > something else that
                                                                                                                                                    > would be better?
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Eric
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >

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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10748 From: A J Myers Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Green tiger barb doing nose stands
                                                                                                                                                    Just noticed that my green tiger barb is doing nose stands alot.
                                                                                                                                                    Sometimes it just rolls over and around the tank in the current, then
                                                                                                                                                    rights himself for a little while. Water tests fine and he still eats
                                                                                                                                                    when he sees food, then he goes all retarded for a few seconds. Any
                                                                                                                                                    thoughts?

                                                                                                                                                    *A J*
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10749 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Ray, Mark - #'s

                                                                                                                                                    Nitrates at 35, Ammonia 0, Nitrites .20  ,  Ph 7.4

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    This is after a major water change yesterday morning.  I’ve decided against doing another and will be adding the BP back into the main tank this evening.  

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Does everything look OK or do I need to be doing something?

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    My catfish, normally hyper active, is very docile but I’m thinking it may because I took the terrorist (firemouth) out.  Last time I had an inactive catfish, he died within a few hours.

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Thanks for any opinions…all are welcome!

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Leslie

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10750 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Ray, Mark - #'s
                                                                                                                                                    While not usually dangerous, I see the nitrates are a bit high, but
                                                                                                                                                    should not hurt anything. Ideally, you want it around 20. The ammonia
                                                                                                                                                    at 0 of course is fine. I see the nitrites are starting to creep up.
                                                                                                                                                    As these are the readings from the 10 gallon tank (at least, that's
                                                                                                                                                    what I understand), I don't see a problem if you're planning on adding
                                                                                                                                                    the BP back to the main tank this evening. That's not too far off, and
                                                                                                                                                    he should be alright. I presume that after you add the BP back into
                                                                                                                                                    the 55, that you'll then treat that tank with M. Green(?). If not, you
                                                                                                                                                    should. Ray
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > Nitrates at 35, Ammonia 0, Nitrites .20 , Ph 7.4
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > This is after a major water change yesterday morning. I've decided
                                                                                                                                                    > against doing another and will be adding the BP back into the main
                                                                                                                                                    tank
                                                                                                                                                    > this evening.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Does everything look OK or do I need to be doing something?
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > My catfish, normally hyper active, is very docile but I'm thinking it
                                                                                                                                                    > may because I took the terrorist (firemouth) out. Last time I had an
                                                                                                                                                    > inactive catfish, he died within a few hours.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Thanks for any opinions.all are welcome!
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Leslie
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10751 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Ray, Mark - #'s

                                                                                                                                                    Sorry, no.  This is the 55 gal.  You always get me on this stuff…

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    From:
                                                                                                                                                    AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 1:42 PM
                                                                                                                                                    To:
                                                                                                                                                    AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    Sub
                                                                                                                                                    ject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray, Mark - #'s

                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                    While not usually dangerous, I see the nitrates are a bit high, but
                                                                                                                                                    should not hurt anything.  Ideally, you want it around 20.  The ammonia
                                                                                                                                                    at 0 of course is fine.  I see the nitrites are starting to creep up. 
                                                                                                                                                    As these are the readings from the 10 gallon tank (at least, that's
                                                                                                                                                    what I understand), I don't see a problem if you're planning on adding
                                                                                                                                                    the BP back to the main tank this evening.  That's not too far off, and
                                                                                                                                                    he should be alright.  I presume that after you add the BP back into
                                                                                                                                                    the 55, that you'll then treat that tank with M. Green(?).  If not, you
                                                                                                                                                    should.  Ray                                                          
                                                                                                                                                    \                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > Nitrates at 35, Ammonia 0, Nitrites .20  ,  Ph 7.4

                                                                                                                                                    > This is after a major water change yesterday morning.  I've decided
                                                                                                                                                    > against doing another and will be adding the BP back into the main
                                                                                                                                                    tank
                                                                                                                                                    > this evening. 

                                                                                                                                                    > Does everything look OK or do I need to be doing something?

                                                                                                                                                    > My catfish, normally hyper active, is very docile but I'm thinking it
                                                                                                                                                    > may because I took the terrorist (firemouth) out.  Last time I had an
                                                                                                                                                    > inactive catfish, he died within a few hours.

                                                                                                                                                    > Thanks for any opinions.all are welcome!

                                                                                                                                                    > Leslie





                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10752 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    Paul, Thanks for filling me in on the Morton's salt. I read
                                                                                                                                                    (probably in the last go around on this topic) that Morton's does
                                                                                                                                                    have a Kosher salt, although I have seen it in this area. Yeah, I
                                                                                                                                                    know the Diamond Crystal salt will crumble back to crystals just by
                                                                                                                                                    crushing it, but I just wanted to point out that it will clump, and
                                                                                                                                                    so it can't contain any anti-caking ingredients. I don't normally
                                                                                                                                                    add salt to my tanks either, feeling its not necessary, but it does
                                                                                                                                                    have its uses. By the way, those kitchen tours sound intriguing.
                                                                                                                                                    Ray

                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > ray,
                                                                                                                                                    > diamond crystal is probably the most popular brand of
                                                                                                                                                    > "kosher salt" because it is real kosher salt. you are
                                                                                                                                                    > correct that it does clup in humidity , but it also
                                                                                                                                                    > crushes back to crystals easily because it is just
                                                                                                                                                    > salt. it is the brand used in most professional
                                                                                                                                                    > kitchens as well. i happen to have 2 3lb boxes in my
                                                                                                                                                    > home kitchen that i get at work because it is less
                                                                                                                                                    > than 2 bucks there. i personally do not add salt to
                                                                                                                                                    > fresh water tanks, but i do cook with diamond. every
                                                                                                                                                    > kitchen that i have toured uses it in CA, as well as
                                                                                                                                                    > in Vegas and reno in the big hotels. why use crappy
                                                                                                                                                    > salt when the real thing is so cheap? last time we
                                                                                                                                                    > went round on this topic i posted from morton, and
                                                                                                                                                    > then do have a real kosher salt, and a kosher style
                                                                                                                                                    > table salt.
                                                                                                                                                    > paul
                                                                                                                                                    > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > I guess I'll have to be more specific from now on.
                                                                                                                                                    > > I'm referring
                                                                                                                                                    > > to "Diamond Crystal" brand Kosher salt, which has no
                                                                                                                                                    > > mention of any
                                                                                                                                                    > > other (anti-caking) ingredients -- and which will
                                                                                                                                                    > > cake up badly in
                                                                                                                                                    > > the presence of high humidity. I guess other brands
                                                                                                                                                    > > such
                                                                                                                                                    > > as "Mortons" may contain anti-caking agents, but I
                                                                                                                                                    > > don't think of
                                                                                                                                                    > > them, as Diamond Crystal seems to be the only one in
                                                                                                                                                    > > this area
                                                                                                                                                    > > packaged in a 3 lb box labeled as Kosher. While I
                                                                                                                                                    > > do see Morton's
                                                                                                                                                    > > and other brands, they are only found in the 1 lb
                                                                                                                                                    > > box as "table salt"
                                                                                                                                                    > > (in this area). Steve, while it may be perfectly
                                                                                                                                                    > > safe to use table
                                                                                                                                                    > > salt (w/anti-caking ingredients and all), I feel;
                                                                                                                                                    > > why add other stuff
                                                                                                                                                    > > to your aquarium (safe or not) if you don't have to?
                                                                                                                                                    > > I used to use
                                                                                                                                                    > > table salt too, way back when . . . , but switched
                                                                                                                                                    > > to Diamond Crystal
                                                                                                                                                    > > for the above reason. We're all aware of the many
                                                                                                                                                    > > additives (those
                                                                                                                                                    > > unpronounceable things) that are found in many
                                                                                                                                                    > > packaged foods for
                                                                                                                                                    > > human consumption, as preservatives, colors, etc.,
                                                                                                                                                    > > which are
                                                                                                                                                    > > supposedly safe, but why eat some of that crap if
                                                                                                                                                    > > you don't need to.
                                                                                                                                                    > > That's just my way of thinking -- eat what you want,
                                                                                                                                                    > > and add stuff to
                                                                                                                                                    > > your tank as you want; that's up to you. Ray
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > \
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo"
                                                                                                                                                    > > <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Ray,
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Actually, you will find anti-caking agents in many
                                                                                                                                                    > > brands of kosher
                                                                                                                                                    > > salt as
                                                                                                                                                    > > > well--you did mean anti-caking agents, didn't you?
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > There is absolutely no logical reason not to use
                                                                                                                                                    > > table salt in an
                                                                                                                                                    > > aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > The anti-caking agents will not harm the fishes,
                                                                                                                                                    > > nor will the
                                                                                                                                                    > > iodine found
                                                                                                                                                    > > > in table salt, especially if you are doing regular
                                                                                                                                                    > > water changes as
                                                                                                                                                    > > well.
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > No, not okay (because of caking agents -- &
                                                                                                                                                    > > iodine), but go to the
                                                                                                                                                    > > > supermarket (for Kosher salt) instead of the lfs;
                                                                                                                                                    > > its a lot
                                                                                                                                                    > > cheaper.
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Ray
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > \
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie
                                                                                                                                                    > > Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > > > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK or
                                                                                                                                                    > > do I need to wait
                                                                                                                                                    > > > until
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK or No
                                                                                                                                                    > > it's not will
                                                                                                                                                    > > > suffice.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I've seen how some get about salt around here.
                                                                                                                                                    > > =)
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff?
                                                                                                                                                    > > Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                    > > Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Sale!
                                                                                                                                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                    > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10753 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Ray, Mark - #'s
                                                                                                                                                    I was wondering if it might be, and hoped to get your attention on
                                                                                                                                                    this (which I did) in a hurry, if that's what you really meant,
                                                                                                                                                    although I wasn't quite sure. In that case, you might want to
                                                                                                                                                    consider doing another water changes, especially as you're (I hope)
                                                                                                                                                    going to treat this tank with M. Green as well, and will not be doing
                                                                                                                                                    any more changes right away. Ray
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > Sorry, no. This is the 55 gal. You always get me on this stuff.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                    Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                    > On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 1:42 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray, Mark - #'s
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > While not usually dangerous, I see the nitrates are a bit high, but
                                                                                                                                                    > should not hurt anything. Ideally, you want it around 20. The
                                                                                                                                                    ammonia
                                                                                                                                                    > at 0 of course is fine. I see the nitrites are starting to creep
                                                                                                                                                    up.
                                                                                                                                                    > As these are the readings from the 10 gallon tank (at least, that's
                                                                                                                                                    > what I understand), I don't see a problem if you're planning on
                                                                                                                                                    adding
                                                                                                                                                    > the BP back to the main tank this evening. That's not too far off,
                                                                                                                                                    and
                                                                                                                                                    > he should be alright. I presume that after you add the BP back
                                                                                                                                                    into
                                                                                                                                                    > the 55, that you'll then treat that tank with M. Green(?). If not,
                                                                                                                                                    you
                                                                                                                                                    > should.
                                                                                                                                                    Ray
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    \

                                                                                                                                                    > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > Nitrates at 35, Ammonia 0, Nitrites .20 , Ph 7.4
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > This is after a major water change yesterday morning. I've
                                                                                                                                                    decided
                                                                                                                                                    > > against doing another and will be adding the BP back into the
                                                                                                                                                    main
                                                                                                                                                    > tank
                                                                                                                                                    > > this evening.
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Does everything look OK or do I need to be doing something?
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > My catfish, normally hyper active, is very docile but I'm
                                                                                                                                                    thinking it
                                                                                                                                                    > > may because I took the terrorist (firemouth) out. Last time I
                                                                                                                                                    had an
                                                                                                                                                    > > inactive catfish, he died within a few hours.
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Thanks for any opinions.all are welcome!
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Leslie
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                    thanks
                                                                                                                                                    > .
                                                                                                                                                    > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                    important
                                                                                                                                                    > to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                    modify
                                                                                                                                                    > the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                    > Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > _____
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10754 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Ray, Mark - #'s

                                                                                                                                                    I’ll do a 25% change this afternoon.  I will treat it with m. grn. as well.

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    From:
                                                                                                                                                    AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 2:04 PM
                                                                                                                                                    To:
                                                                                                                                                    AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    Sub
                                                                                                                                                    ject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray, Mark - #'s

                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                    I was wondering if it might be, and hoped to get your attention on
                                                                                                                                                    this (which I did) in a hurry, if that's what you really meant,
                                                                                                                                                    although I wasn't quite sure.  In that case, you might want to
                                                                                                                                                    consider doing another water changes, especially as you're (I hope)
                                                                                                                                                    going to treat this tank with M. Green as well, and will not be doing
                                                                                                                                                    any more changes right away.  Ray                                   
                                                                                                                                                    \                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > Sorry, no.  This is the 55 gal.  You always get me on this stuff.

                                                                                                                                                    > Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                    Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                    > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                    > On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 1:42 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray, Mark - #'s

                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > While not usually dangerous, I see the nitrates are a bit high, but
                                                                                                                                                    > should not hurt anything.  Ideally, you want it around 20.  The
                                                                                                                                                    ammonia
                                                                                                                                                    > at 0 of course is fine.  I see the nitrites are starting to creep
                                                                                                                                                    up. 
                                                                                                                                                    > As these are the readings from the 10 gallon tank (at least, that's
                                                                                                                                                    > what I understand), I don't see a problem if you're planning on
                                                                                                                                                    adding
                                                                                                                                                    > the BP back to the main tank this evening.  That's not too far off,
                                                                                                                                                    and
                                                                                                                                                    > he should be alright.  I presume that after you add the BP back
                                                                                                                                                    into
                                                                                                                                                    > the 55, that you'll then treat that tank with M. Green(?).  If not,
                                                                                                                                                    you
                                                                                                                                                    > should. 
                                                                                                                                                    Ray                                                          
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    \                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > Nitrates at 35, Ammonia 0, Nitrites .20  ,  Ph 7.4
                                                                                                                                                    > > 
                                                                                                                                                    > > This is after a major water change yesterday morning.  I've
                                                                                                                                                    decided
                                                                                                                                                    > > against doing another and will be adding the BP back into the
                                                                                                                                                    main
                                                                                                                                                    > tank
                                                                                                                                                    > > this evening. 
                                                                                                                                                    > > 
                                                                                                                                                    > > Does everything look OK or do I need to be doing something?
                                                                                                                                                    > > 
                                                                                                                                                    > > My catfish, normally hyper active, is very docile but I'm
                                                                                                                                                    thinking it
                                                                                                                                                    > > may because I took the terrorist (firemouth) out.  Last time I
                                                                                                                                                    had an
                                                                                                                                                    > > inactive catfish, he died within a few hours.
                                                                                                                                                    > > 
                                                                                                                                                    > > Thanks for any opinions.all are welcome!
                                                                                                                                                    > > 
                                                                                                                                                    > > Leslie
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                    thanks
                                                                                                                                                    > .
                                                                                                                                                    > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                    important
                                                                                                                                                    > to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                    modify
                                                                                                                                                    > the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we
                                                                                                                                                    > Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >   _____ 
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                    > *         To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                    >  
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                                                                                                                                                    > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
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                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10755 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Hello all...

                                                                                                                                                    Hi there and welcome.

                                                                                                                                                    Good luck getting info from these guys…I think I’ve worn them out. =) (And I soooooo appreciate it.)

                                                                                                                                                    These are good people.  Just don’t get them talking about the “s” word…..salt. 

                                                                                                                                                    `Leslie

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello all...

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    ·        
                                                                                                                                                    Just wanted to say hi and introduce myself to the group.  My name is
                                                                                                                                                    Michael and I am a new memeber.  I currently have a 20 gallon tank with
                                                                                                                                                    3 fancy male guppies, 4 mystery snails, 3 clown barbs and 2 cherry
                                                                                                                                                    barbs.  I am thinking about buying a few female fancy guppies to mate
                                                                                                                                                    with the males and selling the babies.  Any opinions from the group..

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10756 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: overall
                                                                                                                                                    A common Plecostomus -- fine -- in a 5.5 gallon tank? The guy
                                                                                                                                                    lied again, or doesn't know what he's talking about. These fish can
                                                                                                                                                    easily get to 16" or better, unless its one of the smaller
                                                                                                                                                    varieties. Somehow I missed the fact that you have 3 goldfish in
                                                                                                                                                    your 2 gallon tank. I thought you had only 2, which would be bad
                                                                                                                                                    enough. Glad to see the black moore is doing a little better. I
                                                                                                                                                    can't say if and when he'll swim upright. Depending on what types of
                                                                                                                                                    plants they are, yes, too much light can kill them. As far
                                                                                                                                                    as "treating" the water, I wouldn't mess with the pH as it sounds
                                                                                                                                                    like you're doing, unless its really high (over 8.5). Not knowing
                                                                                                                                                    whether or not your water company uses chlorine or chloramines, I
                                                                                                                                                    would go ahead and treat for that whether they do or not. Better to
                                                                                                                                                    play it safe. The chloramines remover can't hurt anything. Ray
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > this is cool. my sick little black moore has shed all of his white
                                                                                                                                                    > colored tips of his fins. hes moving his gills a lot more and
                                                                                                                                                    > wiggling around activly. unfortunantly he is still on his side and
                                                                                                                                                    i
                                                                                                                                                    > noticed a white spot on it. i was wondering if anyone knows if when
                                                                                                                                                    > he gets all the way better and has teh energy to swim like he used
                                                                                                                                                    > to, if he shall be able to be upright?
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > my friends betta is well and truely dead. and quite frankly im
                                                                                                                                                    > relieved. i dont know how he died but he was missing a lot of fins.
                                                                                                                                                    > maybe my tetras staged a revolt. though i think it had to do more
                                                                                                                                                    > with the filter. anyway my tank is back to peaceful happiness, i
                                                                                                                                                    did
                                                                                                                                                    > go out and buy a placostamous today (spellings wrong im sure) hes
                                                                                                                                                    > kinda big and that worries me that he wont hav enough room in the
                                                                                                                                                    > 5.5 gallon tank. i mean the guy said that hed be fine but he also
                                                                                                                                                    > said that you could fit 3 goldfish in a 2 gal tank n ididnt mention
                                                                                                                                                    > that theyd need more room later. i dont trust people like that.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > does anyone know how much an automatic feeder goes for? i dunwan
                                                                                                                                                    get
                                                                                                                                                    > jipped.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > my plants are kind of sort of dying. any suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                    > could too much light kill them??? because ive had to leave it on
                                                                                                                                                    teh
                                                                                                                                                    > past few days because we have no heat at the dorms and its been
                                                                                                                                                    > freezing for some reason. it was awfully hot today though.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > i wrote an email to the people at Lees aquarium and pet products,
                                                                                                                                                    > which is the company of the filter that i bought. i did this after
                                                                                                                                                    i
                                                                                                                                                    > bought a whole new circular UGF and spent over 20 minutes cleanin
                                                                                                                                                    > rinsin n shakin out gray stuff. i did end up just cleaning out the
                                                                                                                                                    > whole container again and puttn fresh water in it. i think maybe
                                                                                                                                                    its
                                                                                                                                                    > just really really old.so i pulled the carbon off and hes got
                                                                                                                                                    > bubbles from the tubing. its kind of nice looking. im looking into
                                                                                                                                                    > different pet stores in my vicinity.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > big question... i made a new friend and he insists that theres no
                                                                                                                                                    > need to put anything in the water down here to make it acceptable
                                                                                                                                                    > for fish. i don't agree but id liek to know if anybody else thinks
                                                                                                                                                    > its cool to have untreated water. hes got 8 aquariums and i live a
                                                                                                                                                    > tad more south than he does but i do kno that it takes 20 drops of
                                                                                                                                                    > my ph decreaser to get it to 7ph and that doesnt seem like itd be
                                                                                                                                                    > cool to let alone like that.
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10757 From: fsh_tanks Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: fish
                                                                                                                                                    I am loking for info for my website
                                                                                                                                                    info on how tranquil fish are for people and how relaxing they are and
                                                                                                                                                    how they can help people with there health.
                                                                                                                                                    how well they do in hospitals

                                                                                                                                                    if anyone can help me with this would be greatfull
                                                                                                                                                    thank you or yous

                                                                                                                                                    have a great day
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10758 From: Rachel Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: overall
                                                                                                                                                    no no i need to elaborate.
                                                                                                                                                    i hav 2 black moore goldfish and usually theyre together in the 2
                                                                                                                                                    gallon tank. i was talking about how i overheard the guy telling
                                                                                                                                                    some woman that it was cool to keep 3 in a 2 gallon.
                                                                                                                                                    if the lil guy gets beter should i get a 20 gallon tank instead of
                                                                                                                                                    a 10 gallon tank to keep at home?
                                                                                                                                                    as for the water, its tap. straight out the sink. which is why i
                                                                                                                                                    treat it.
                                                                                                                                                    about the plecostomous, i dont know if it makes any difference but
                                                                                                                                                    he said something about it being smaller, a smaller kind, or
                                                                                                                                                    something, im not quite sure.

                                                                                                                                                    Rachel

                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                                                    <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > A common Plecostomus -- fine -- in a 5.5 gallon tank? The guy
                                                                                                                                                    > lied again, or doesn't know what he's talking about. These fish
                                                                                                                                                    can
                                                                                                                                                    > easily get to 16" or better, unless its one of the smaller
                                                                                                                                                    > varieties. Somehow I missed the fact that you have 3 goldfish in
                                                                                                                                                    > your 2 gallon tank. I thought you had only 2, which would be bad
                                                                                                                                                    > enough. Glad to see the black moore is doing a little better. I
                                                                                                                                                    > can't say if and when he'll swim upright. Depending on what types
                                                                                                                                                    of
                                                                                                                                                    > plants they are, yes, too much light can kill them. As far
                                                                                                                                                    > as "treating" the water, I wouldn't mess with the pH as it sounds
                                                                                                                                                    > like you're doing, unless its really high (over 8.5). Not knowing
                                                                                                                                                    > whether or not your water company uses chlorine or chloramines, I
                                                                                                                                                    > would go ahead and treat for that whether they do or not. Better
                                                                                                                                                    to
                                                                                                                                                    > play it safe. The chloramines remover can't hurt anything.
                                                                                                                                                    Ray
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10759 From: Rachel Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: ph test
                                                                                                                                                    i just wanted to give ya a heads up, i just did a ph test on the water
                                                                                                                                                    i use before i treat it, and the ph is 9
                                                                                                                                                    i also called the guy at the petstore and informed him about his
                                                                                                                                                    cartridges being worthless and dirty
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10760 From: Nan Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: overall
                                                                                                                                                    Rachel,
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    I have made the Pleco mistake as well, so let me offer this website to you so you can identify which kind he is and weather or not you need to start looking for a new home for him, and a smaller one for you:
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Also, I would definately suggest a 20 gallon for your friends at your parents home, with a very good filtration system since your parents will not be wanting to clean the tank or change the filters more than likely.  You will have to show them how to treat the water and to add it to your tank when it gets low.  Shop around for the feeder your asking about, you might be able to find it cheaper online than at Wal-Mart or your LFS (LPS).  Just a thought.
                                                                                                                                                    ~nan and crew~


                                                                                                                                                    ~nan and crew~
                                                                                                                                                    Rome, GA
                                                                                                                                                    bettas and soon we add guppys!

                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10761 From: Nan Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Dead Tank?
                                                                                                                                                    Ok, here is my situation, and any feed back will be appreciated.
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Four about 5 months I had a greenwater 10 gallon tank set up for growing out my betta fry.  It worked lovely until I added the snail...she multiplied...to make a long story short, tank of fry died after an overfeeding and I set out to reset it and get it back to greenwater state for my upcomeing fry.  I cleaned the tank with warm water since the crash occurred to ....well, waste overload!  I cleaned the sponge filter as well with dechlorinated water.
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Instead of leaving it bare bottomed, I decided to add gravel, and I bought a bag of black with different colored stones Spectra Stone gravel from my LFS.  I set it up with a sponge filter, the stones after carefully rinseing them until no more dust came off, some plants, and it had a hood on the top.  I added nothing except the gravel and a different type of sponge filter.  I added water from my 35 gallon to help somewhat cycle it (from the bottom of the 35 with a very little bit of debris from there), and I let it run for a few days.  I did use a dechlorinator (TLC, but I have since switched back to my  lovely stress coat!) and a bit of biological starter.   After a few days of the clean clear looking water, I added fish.  A couple of guppys.
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Next morning, guppys are dead.  So that evening after work I set out to reset this tank, thinking I didn't rinse everything, or clean everything well enough and did it again.  I let it run for a week this time and added fish.....guppys died overnight.
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    I then got ticked off and put the tank and gravel outside in the rain and sun and bought a new set up which is working lovely, however, I really want to figure out what the heck is wrong with my tank after months of it being fine.  So here are my theories:
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    1.  I have consistently not cleaned the tank, gravel, or filters well enough.
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    2.  Bad bio starter!
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    3. The gravel is tainted somehow and it isn't the tank afterall, just the gravel.
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    4.  I am wrong on all accounts and one of you will find the really simple answer...*chuckle*
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    So, like I said any and all input is greatly appreciated.  I thank you in advance for your help. Have a lovely day!
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    ~nan and crew~

                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                    Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                                    http://mail.yahoo.com

                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10762 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    Paul,

                                                                                                                                                    I have found dictionary.com to be an unreliable source for all but the
                                                                                                                                                    simplest questions--like did I spell that word correctly. Look up
                                                                                                                                                    nitrobacter or nirosoma and see what they have to say. Try a few other
                                                                                                                                                    advanced terms and see if they agree with your understanding of the term.

                                                                                                                                                    Do a search on kosher salt and see what you can find. Find a rabbi and ask
                                                                                                                                                    him--he will probably refer you to someone else, but you will find out
                                                                                                                                                    eventually. It is not an easy search.

                                                                                                                                                    \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:42 PM
                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt


                                                                                                                                                    additives may be "allowed" now, but if you go to any
                                                                                                                                                    commercial quality kitchen, the kosher salt will be
                                                                                                                                                    true kosher salt, which means that it has nothing
                                                                                                                                                    added to it. here is the literal defintion of kosher
                                                                                                                                                    salt from dictionary.com.:
                                                                                                                                                    kosher salt
                                                                                                                                                    n.
                                                                                                                                                    A refined, coarse-grained salt with no additives

                                                                                                                                                    looser jewish groups may have allowed a change in it
                                                                                                                                                    in certain areas, but true and literal kosher salt is
                                                                                                                                                    nothing but pure salt!

                                                                                                                                                    --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > I did, on the last go around on this topic.
                                                                                                                                                    > Anti-caking agents are allowed,
                                                                                                                                                    > and salt containing the anti-caking agents may,
                                                                                                                                                    > indeed, be marked as being
                                                                                                                                                    > kosher. It took me the better part of an evening to
                                                                                                                                                    > determine this.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                    > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:14 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > that is because they are not true kosher products.
                                                                                                                                                    > look up the definition
                                                                                                                                                    > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > Ray,
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Actually, you will find anti-caking agents in many
                                                                                                                                                    > > brands of kosher salt as
                                                                                                                                                    > > well--you did mean anti-caking agents, didn't you?
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > There is absolutely no logical reason not to use
                                                                                                                                                    > > table salt in an aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                    > > The anti-caking agents will not harm the fishes,
                                                                                                                                                    > nor
                                                                                                                                                    > > will the iodine found
                                                                                                                                                    > > in table salt, especially if you are doing regular
                                                                                                                                                    > > water changes as well.
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    > > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > No, not okay (because of caking agents -- &
                                                                                                                                                    > > iodine), but go to the
                                                                                                                                                    > > supermarket (for Kosher salt) instead of the lfs;
                                                                                                                                                    > > its a lot cheaper.
                                                                                                                                                    > > Ray
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > \
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie
                                                                                                                                                    > > Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK or
                                                                                                                                                    > do
                                                                                                                                                    > > I need to wait
                                                                                                                                                    > > until
                                                                                                                                                    > > > I can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK or No
                                                                                                                                                    > > it's not will
                                                                                                                                                    > > suffice.
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > I've seen how some get about salt around here.
                                                                                                                                                    > =)
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff?
                                                                                                                                                    > > Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Sale!
                                                                                                                                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10763 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    Ray,

                                                                                                                                                    FWIW, I usually use a marine salt mix when adding salt. The point is that
                                                                                                                                                    the table salt taboo is merely a myth, and it can be safely used in an
                                                                                                                                                    aquatic environment.

                                                                                                                                                    \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:44 AM
                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt



                                                                                                                                                    I guess I'll have to be more specific from now on. I'm referring
                                                                                                                                                    to "Diamond Crystal" brand Kosher salt, which has no mention of any
                                                                                                                                                    other (anti-caking) ingredients -- and which will cake up badly in
                                                                                                                                                    the presence of high humidity. I guess other brands such
                                                                                                                                                    as "Mortons" may contain anti-caking agents, but I don't think of
                                                                                                                                                    them, as Diamond Crystal seems to be the only one in this area
                                                                                                                                                    packaged in a 3 lb box labeled as Kosher. While I do see Morton's
                                                                                                                                                    and other brands, they are only found in the 1 lb box as "table salt"
                                                                                                                                                    (in this area). Steve, while it may be perfectly safe to use table
                                                                                                                                                    salt (w/anti-caking ingredients and all), I feel; why add other stuff
                                                                                                                                                    to your aquarium (safe or not) if you don't have to? I used to use
                                                                                                                                                    table salt too, way back when . . . , but switched to Diamond Crystal
                                                                                                                                                    for the above reason. We're all aware of the many additives (those
                                                                                                                                                    unpronounceable things) that are found in many packaged foods for
                                                                                                                                                    human consumption, as preservatives, colors, etc., which are
                                                                                                                                                    supposedly safe, but why eat some of that crap if you don't need to.
                                                                                                                                                    That's just my way of thinking -- eat what you want, and add stuff to
                                                                                                                                                    your tank as you want; that's up to you. Ray
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > Ray,
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Actually, you will find anti-caking agents in many brands of kosher
                                                                                                                                                    salt as
                                                                                                                                                    > well--you did mean anti-caking agents, didn't you?
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > There is absolutely no logical reason not to use table salt in an
                                                                                                                                                    aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                    > The anti-caking agents will not harm the fishes, nor will the
                                                                                                                                                    iodine found
                                                                                                                                                    > in table salt, especially if you are doing regular water changes as
                                                                                                                                                    well.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > No, not okay (because of caking agents -- & iodine), but go to the
                                                                                                                                                    > supermarket (for Kosher salt) instead of the lfs; its a lot
                                                                                                                                                    cheaper.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    Ray

                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    \

                                                                                                                                                    > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK or do I need to wait
                                                                                                                                                    > until
                                                                                                                                                    > > I can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK or No it's not will
                                                                                                                                                    > suffice.
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > I've seen how some get about salt around here. =)
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                    Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10764 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                    Probably the last, or one of the last, major figures in the hobby to believe
                                                                                                                                                    in carbon filtration.

                                                                                                                                                    \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 4:42 AM
                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter


                                                                                                                                                    whoever tim is.....
                                                                                                                                                    --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Use the cartridge that you got wit the H.O.T.
                                                                                                                                                    > Magnum. You can also get a
                                                                                                                                                    > bio-wheel for it to provide for biological
                                                                                                                                                    > filtration.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > And, for Paul, I should mention that Tim Hovanec and
                                                                                                                                                    > I long ago determined
                                                                                                                                                    > that we could agree to disagree on this topic of the
                                                                                                                                                    > use of carbon.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    > Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                    > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:09 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > What do I do with the HOT Magnum canister filter I
                                                                                                                                                    > have? Remember, I'm very
                                                                                                                                                    > new at this. It has carbon in it and a sponge
                                                                                                                                                    > sleeve. If I'm not supposed
                                                                                                                                                    > to use carbon, what do I use?
                                                                                                                                                    > Angela
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                    > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a
                                                                                                                                                    > regular basis does.
                                                                                                                                                    > You say
                                                                                                                                                    > thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances? Do
                                                                                                                                                    > you need a half
                                                                                                                                                    > cup of
                                                                                                                                                    > carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need one
                                                                                                                                                    > cup, or maybe
                                                                                                                                                    > more? What
                                                                                                                                                    > about variations in adsorption rates between
                                                                                                                                                    > batches?
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do not use
                                                                                                                                                    > carbon on a
                                                                                                                                                    > regular
                                                                                                                                                    > basis. If you want crystal clear water, use regular
                                                                                                                                                    > water changes
                                                                                                                                                    > and a
                                                                                                                                                    > diatom filter.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                    > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                    > .
                                                                                                                                                    > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                    > that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                    > the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                    > message modify the
                                                                                                                                                    > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                    > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                    > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10765 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: New prob...? Please help...again.

                                                                                                                                                    The fish that had the puffy white spots…

                                                                                                                                                    His puffs are down but still white.  I took this to mean he was getting better.  Well….now he has several very large white spots all over.  His sides, his top fin, his eye spots.  They are large spots, not small salt like spots.  Like he has paled in places.  Then his fin where usually transparent, is now a milky white.  WHAT is this?!

                                                                                                                                                    Stress induced?  The water WAS bad, not bad now.  His “mate” was out for just over 24 hours, could that be it? 

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10766 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                    Angela,

                                                                                                                                                    I am suggesting that you just use the cartridge without adding the carbon.

                                                                                                                                                    \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                    ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:10 AM
                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter


                                                                                                                                                    There's no cartridge for the carbon. You just pour out what's in there and
                                                                                                                                                    pour in new carbon. The filter is a few years old, so they may have changed
                                                                                                                                                    it, but it doesn't have a cartridge like my other filters.

                                                                                                                                                    Angela


                                                                                                                                                    --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Use the cartridge that you got wit the H.O.T.
                                                                                                                                                    > Magnum. You can also get a
                                                                                                                                                    > bio-wheel for it to provide for biological
                                                                                                                                                    > filtration.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10767 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    Steve, I NEVER SAID THAT TABLE SALT WASN'T SAFE TO USE! But as for
                                                                                                                                                    using marine salt on the occasion of using it for freshwater fish,
                                                                                                                                                    why go to the added expense to include the trace elements, if table
                                                                                                                                                    salt is just as safe (even if marine salt is more natural for them)?
                                                                                                                                                    Its not going to do any more for them. Ray
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > Ray,
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > FWIW, I usually use a marine salt mix when adding salt. The point
                                                                                                                                                    is that
                                                                                                                                                    > the table salt taboo is merely a myth, and it can be safely used in
                                                                                                                                                    an
                                                                                                                                                    > aquatic environment.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:44 AM
                                                                                                                                                    > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > I guess I'll have to be more specific from now on. I'm referring
                                                                                                                                                    > to "Diamond Crystal" brand Kosher salt, which has no mention of any
                                                                                                                                                    > other (anti-caking) ingredients -- and which will cake up badly in
                                                                                                                                                    > the presence of high humidity. I guess other brands such
                                                                                                                                                    > as "Mortons" may contain anti-caking agents, but I don't think of
                                                                                                                                                    > them, as Diamond Crystal seems to be the only one in this area
                                                                                                                                                    > packaged in a 3 lb box labeled as Kosher. While I do see Morton's
                                                                                                                                                    > and other brands, they are only found in the 1 lb box as "table
                                                                                                                                                    salt"
                                                                                                                                                    > (in this area). Steve, while it may be perfectly safe to use table
                                                                                                                                                    > salt (w/anti-caking ingredients and all), I feel; why add other
                                                                                                                                                    stuff
                                                                                                                                                    > to your aquarium (safe or not) if you don't have to? I used to use
                                                                                                                                                    > table salt too, way back when . . . , but switched to Diamond
                                                                                                                                                    Crystal
                                                                                                                                                    > for the above reason. We're all aware of the many additives (those
                                                                                                                                                    > unpronounceable things) that are found in many packaged foods for
                                                                                                                                                    > human consumption, as preservatives, colors, etc., which are
                                                                                                                                                    > supposedly safe, but why eat some of that crap if you don't need
                                                                                                                                                    to.
                                                                                                                                                    > That's just my way of thinking -- eat what you want, and add stuff
                                                                                                                                                    to
                                                                                                                                                    > your tank as you want; that's up to you.
                                                                                                                                                    Ray
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@f...>
                                                                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > Ray,
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Actually, you will find anti-caking agents in many brands of
                                                                                                                                                    kosher
                                                                                                                                                    > salt as
                                                                                                                                                    > > well--you did mean anti-caking agents, didn't you?
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > There is absolutely no logical reason not to use table salt in an
                                                                                                                                                    > aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                    > > The anti-caking agents will not harm the fishes, nor will the
                                                                                                                                                    > iodine found
                                                                                                                                                    > > in table salt, especially if you are doing regular water changes
                                                                                                                                                    as
                                                                                                                                                    > well.
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    > > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > No, not okay (because of caking agents -- & iodine), but go to
                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                    > > supermarket (for Kosher salt) instead of the lfs; its a lot
                                                                                                                                                    > cheaper.
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    Ray
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK or do I need to
                                                                                                                                                    wait
                                                                                                                                                    > > until
                                                                                                                                                    > > > I can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK or No it's not will
                                                                                                                                                    > > suffice.
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > I've seen how some get about salt around here. =)
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                    > Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10768 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: ph test
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > i just wanted to give ya a heads up, i just did a ph test on the
                                                                                                                                                    water
                                                                                                                                                    > i use before i treat it, and the ph is 9
                                                                                                                                                    > i also called the guy at the petstore and informed him about his
                                                                                                                                                    > cartridges being worthless and dirty
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10769 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: ph test
                                                                                                                                                    Like I said, don't mess with the pH unless its over 8.5. Well, I guess
                                                                                                                                                    its time to mess with it -- yeah, you'll have to adjust it if you want
                                                                                                                                                    fish to live in it; that is high! If 20 drops (of pH-Down?) brings
                                                                                                                                                    your water down to a happily livable range, and you've been having
                                                                                                                                                    success this way all along, then you ought to continue doingbthis. I
                                                                                                                                                    am surprised though, considering the water's buffering capacity, that
                                                                                                                                                    the pH doesn't bounce back up in short time -- or does it? Okay on the
                                                                                                                                                    number of goldfish you have -- two black moores, only I didn't know
                                                                                                                                                    the other one was a black moore also. For best ease of maintenance and
                                                                                                                                                    environment for the fish, I would go for the 20 gallon as soon as you
                                                                                                                                                    can, even though now, they may look a little lost in there. I'm sure
                                                                                                                                                    you (and Your Parents), (and YOUR FISH) will appreciate it. As for
                                                                                                                                                    automatic fish feeders, the cheapest I've seen them for is around $25,
                                                                                                                                                    but I haven't looked all over. There are smaller Pleco cats; you would
                                                                                                                                                    have to find out which one you have, but even with one of the smaller
                                                                                                                                                    ones, there wouldn't be too much more room for very many other fish.
                                                                                                                                                    Ray
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > i just wanted to give ya a heads up, i just did a ph test on the
                                                                                                                                                    water
                                                                                                                                                    > i use before i treat it, and the ph is 9
                                                                                                                                                    > i also called the guy at the petstore and informed him about his
                                                                                                                                                    > cartridges being worthless and dirty
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10770 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Dead Tank?
                                                                                                                                                    Yeo, Wrong on all accounts (#4)!, unless you know where these
                                                                                                                                                    guppies are coming from (from a reliable source?). It is becoming
                                                                                                                                                    increasingly well known unfortunately, that the guppies brought in
                                                                                                                                                    from the Far East just do not hold up, for whatever reason. If these
                                                                                                                                                    are imported guppies, I would say that's the answer. Try finding a
                                                                                                                                                    local source (reliable breeder) of quality guppies. You may have to
                                                                                                                                                    pay more, but at least they should hold up. Ray
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > Ok, here is my situation, and any feed back will be appreciated.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Four about 5 months I had a greenwater 10 gallon tank set up for
                                                                                                                                                    growing out my betta fry. It worked lovely until I added the
                                                                                                                                                    snail...she multiplied...to make a long story short, tank of fry died
                                                                                                                                                    after an overfeeding and I set out to reset it and get it back to
                                                                                                                                                    greenwater state for my upcomeing fry. I cleaned the tank with warm
                                                                                                                                                    water since the crash occurred to ....well, waste overload! I
                                                                                                                                                    cleaned the sponge filter as well with dechlorinated water.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Instead of leaving it bare bottomed, I decided to add gravel, and I
                                                                                                                                                    bought a bag of black with different colored stones Spectra Stone
                                                                                                                                                    gravel from my LFS. I set it up with a sponge filter, the stones
                                                                                                                                                    after carefully rinseing them until no more dust came off, some
                                                                                                                                                    plants, and it had a hood on the top. I added nothing except the
                                                                                                                                                    gravel and a different type of sponge filter. I added water from my
                                                                                                                                                    35 gallon to help somewhat cycle it (from the bottom of the 35 with a
                                                                                                                                                    very little bit of debris from there), and I let it run for a few
                                                                                                                                                    days. I did use a dechlorinator (TLC, but I have since switched back
                                                                                                                                                    to my lovely stress coat!) and a bit of biological starter. After
                                                                                                                                                    a few days of the clean clear looking water, I added fish. A couple
                                                                                                                                                    of guppys.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Next morning, guppys are dead. So that evening after work I set
                                                                                                                                                    out to reset this tank, thinking I didn't rinse everything, or clean
                                                                                                                                                    everything well enough and did it again. I let it run for a week
                                                                                                                                                    this time and added fish.....guppys died overnight.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > I then got ticked off and put the tank and gravel outside in the
                                                                                                                                                    rain and sun and bought a new set up which is working lovely,
                                                                                                                                                    however, I really want to figure out what the heck is wrong with my
                                                                                                                                                    tank after months of it being fine. So here are my theories:
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > 1. I have consistently not cleaned the tank, gravel, or filters
                                                                                                                                                    well enough.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > 2. Bad bio starter!
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > 3. The gravel is tainted somehow and it isn't the tank afterall,
                                                                                                                                                    just the gravel.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > 4. I am wrong on all accounts and one of you will find the really
                                                                                                                                                    simple answer...*chuckle*
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > So, like I said any and all input is greatly appreciated. I thank
                                                                                                                                                    you in advance for your help. Have a lovely day!
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > ~nan and crew~
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                    > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                                    > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10771 From: paul helms Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                    well, every book, flyer, add, tank setup guide, tank
                                                                                                                                                    instructions, and filter instructions that i have ever
                                                                                                                                                    seen were pro...so i hardly think he is the last
                                                                                                                                                    --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > Probably the last, or one of the last, major figures
                                                                                                                                                    > in the hobby to believe
                                                                                                                                                    > in carbon filtration.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                    > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 4:42 AM
                                                                                                                                                    > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > whoever tim is.....
                                                                                                                                                    > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Use the cartridge that you got wit the H.O.T.
                                                                                                                                                    > > Magnum. You can also get a
                                                                                                                                                    > > bio-wheel for it to provide for biological
                                                                                                                                                    > > filtration.
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > And, for Paul, I should mention that Tim Hovanec
                                                                                                                                                    > and
                                                                                                                                                    > > I long ago determined
                                                                                                                                                    > > that we could agree to disagree on this topic of
                                                                                                                                                    > the
                                                                                                                                                    > > use of carbon.
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    > > Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                    > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:09 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > What do I do with the HOT Magnum canister filter I
                                                                                                                                                    > > have? Remember, I'm very
                                                                                                                                                    > > new at this. It has carbon in it and a sponge
                                                                                                                                                    > > sleeve. If I'm not supposed
                                                                                                                                                    > > to use carbon, what do I use?
                                                                                                                                                    > > Angela
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                    > > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a
                                                                                                                                                    > > regular basis does.
                                                                                                                                                    > > You say
                                                                                                                                                    > > thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances? Do
                                                                                                                                                    > > you need a half
                                                                                                                                                    > > cup of
                                                                                                                                                    > > carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need
                                                                                                                                                    > one
                                                                                                                                                    > > cup, or maybe
                                                                                                                                                    > > more? What
                                                                                                                                                    > > about variations in adsorption rates between
                                                                                                                                                    > > batches?
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do not
                                                                                                                                                    > use
                                                                                                                                                    > > carbon on a
                                                                                                                                                    > > regular
                                                                                                                                                    > > basis. If you want crystal clear water, use
                                                                                                                                                    > regular
                                                                                                                                                    > > water changes
                                                                                                                                                    > > and a
                                                                                                                                                    > > diatom filter.
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                                                                    > when
                                                                                                                                                    > > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                    > > .
                                                                                                                                                    > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                    > > that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                    > > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                                                                                    > original
                                                                                                                                                    > > message modify the
                                                                                                                                                    > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                    > > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                    > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >

                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10772 From: paul helms Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    been there and done that, and i am correct. so is
                                                                                                                                                    dictionary.com in this instance.
                                                                                                                                                    --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > I have found dictionary.com to be an unreliable
                                                                                                                                                    > source for all but the
                                                                                                                                                    > simplest questions--like did I spell that word
                                                                                                                                                    > correctly. Look up
                                                                                                                                                    > nitrobacter or nirosoma and see what they have to
                                                                                                                                                    > say. Try a few other
                                                                                                                                                    > advanced terms and see if they agree with your
                                                                                                                                                    > understanding of the term.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Do a search on kosher salt and see what you can
                                                                                                                                                    > find. Find a rabbi and ask
                                                                                                                                                    > him--he will probably refer you to someone else, but
                                                                                                                                                    > you will find out
                                                                                                                                                    > eventually. It is not an easy search.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                    > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:42 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > additives may be "allowed" now, but if you go to any
                                                                                                                                                    > commercial quality kitchen, the kosher salt will be
                                                                                                                                                    > true kosher salt, which means that it has nothing
                                                                                                                                                    > added to it. here is the literal defintion of
                                                                                                                                                    > kosher
                                                                                                                                                    > salt from dictionary.com.:
                                                                                                                                                    > kosher salt
                                                                                                                                                    > n.
                                                                                                                                                    > A refined, coarse-grained salt with no additives
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > looser jewish groups may have allowed a change in it
                                                                                                                                                    > in certain areas, but true and literal kosher salt
                                                                                                                                                    > is
                                                                                                                                                    > nothing but pure salt!
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > I did, on the last go around on this topic.
                                                                                                                                                    > > Anti-caking agents are allowed,
                                                                                                                                                    > > and salt containing the anti-caking agents may,
                                                                                                                                                    > > indeed, be marked as being
                                                                                                                                                    > > kosher. It took me the better part of an evening
                                                                                                                                                    > to
                                                                                                                                                    > > determine this.
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    > > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                    > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:14 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > that is because they are not true kosher products.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > > look up the definition
                                                                                                                                                    > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Ray,
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Actually, you will find anti-caking agents in
                                                                                                                                                    > many
                                                                                                                                                    > > > brands of kosher salt as
                                                                                                                                                    > > > well--you did mean anti-caking agents, didn't
                                                                                                                                                    > you?
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > There is absolutely no logical reason not to use
                                                                                                                                                    > > > table salt in an aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > The anti-caking agents will not harm the fishes,
                                                                                                                                                    > > nor
                                                                                                                                                    > > > will the iodine found
                                                                                                                                                    > > > in table salt, especially if you are doing
                                                                                                                                                    > regular
                                                                                                                                                    > > > water changes as well.
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > No, not okay (because of caking agents -- &
                                                                                                                                                    > > > iodine), but go to the
                                                                                                                                                    > > > supermarket (for Kosher salt) instead of the
                                                                                                                                                    > lfs;
                                                                                                                                                    > > > its a lot cheaper.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Ray
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > \
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane &
                                                                                                                                                    > Leslie
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > > > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK
                                                                                                                                                    > or
                                                                                                                                                    > > do
                                                                                                                                                    > > > I need to wait
                                                                                                                                                    > > > until
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK or
                                                                                                                                                    > No
                                                                                                                                                    > > > it's not will
                                                                                                                                                    > > > suffice.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I've seen how some get about salt around here.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > > =)
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff?
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Sale!
                                                                                                                                                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >

                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10773 From: paul helms Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: ph test
                                                                                                                                                    9 is a pretty normal tap water ph, atleast on the west
                                                                                                                                                    coast. nothing to worry about it will balance out
                                                                                                                                                    --- Rachel <star9crystal@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > i just wanted to give ya a heads up, i just did a ph
                                                                                                                                                    > test on the water
                                                                                                                                                    > i use before i treat it, and the ph is 9
                                                                                                                                                    > i also called the guy at the petstore and informed
                                                                                                                                                    > him about his
                                                                                                                                                    > cartridges being worthless and dirty
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >

                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                    Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10774 From: eggybumstu Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Technical probs veiwing ray pictures
                                                                                                                                                    Hi guys,

                                                                                                                                                    Can anyone shed any light on why I am unable to view the pictures in
                                                                                                                                                    the "Ray" post? Am I missing some software on my pc or being plain
                                                                                                                                                    dumb and not doing something I should?

                                                                                                                                                    Chers Stu
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10775 From: eggybumstu Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Hello all...
                                                                                                                                                    Welcome Fella,
                                                                                                                                                    Hope you enjoy your time here and get all the information you need

                                                                                                                                                    Cheers Stu :D


                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cireman1933" <cireman1933@y...>
                                                                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Just wanted to say hi and introduce myself to the group. My name is
                                                                                                                                                    > Michael and I am a new memeber. I currently have a 20 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                    with
                                                                                                                                                    > 3 fancy male guppies, 4 mystery snails, 3 clown barbs and 2 cherry
                                                                                                                                                    > barbs. I am thinking about buying a few female fancy guppies to
                                                                                                                                                    mate
                                                                                                                                                    > with the males and selling the babies. Any opinions from the group..
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10776 From: paul helms Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    they are fun! i have done them in Both Reno and Las
                                                                                                                                                    Vegas, San Francisco, etc. i have been in the
                                                                                                                                                    industry since 1993, and have seen a lot of really
                                                                                                                                                    nice kitchens. the hotels you can't exactly call a
                                                                                                                                                    kitchen though lol. they are the size of a house!
                                                                                                                                                    distributors fridges are pretty cool too. that is why
                                                                                                                                                    this whole kosher salt thing is pissing me off. real
                                                                                                                                                    kosher salt is quite simply 100% natural, no
                                                                                                                                                    preservatoves additives etc, as you already know, but
                                                                                                                                                    this steve guy just wants to be pig headed about it.
                                                                                                                                                    i give him a dictionary entry and he wants to argue as
                                                                                                                                                    it is not up to his standards of a dictionary. i
                                                                                                                                                    guess when he publishes a dictionary i will listen to
                                                                                                                                                    what he has to say. as for me, i have nearly 13 years
                                                                                                                                                    experience in the food industry, and having taken
                                                                                                                                                    courses in SF at the California Culenary Academy, so i
                                                                                                                                                    may have some clue..lmao. anyway, it is so awesome to
                                                                                                                                                    see the equipment the big big guys use. if you ever
                                                                                                                                                    get the opprotunity to check one out, go for it!
                                                                                                                                                    --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Paul, Thanks for filling me in on the Morton's
                                                                                                                                                    > salt. I read
                                                                                                                                                    > (probably in the last go around on this topic) that
                                                                                                                                                    > Morton's does
                                                                                                                                                    > have a Kosher salt, although I have seen it in this
                                                                                                                                                    > area. Yeah, I
                                                                                                                                                    > know the Diamond Crystal salt will crumble back to
                                                                                                                                                    > crystals just by
                                                                                                                                                    > crushing it, but I just wanted to point out that it
                                                                                                                                                    > will clump, and
                                                                                                                                                    > so it can't contain any anti-caking ingredients. I
                                                                                                                                                    > don't normally
                                                                                                                                                    > add salt to my tanks either, feeling its not
                                                                                                                                                    > necessary, but it does
                                                                                                                                                    > have its uses. By the way, those kitchen tours
                                                                                                                                                    > sound intriguing.
                                                                                                                                                    > Ray
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                    > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > ray,
                                                                                                                                                    > > diamond crystal is probably the most popular brand
                                                                                                                                                    > of
                                                                                                                                                    > > "kosher salt" because it is real kosher salt. you
                                                                                                                                                    > are
                                                                                                                                                    > > correct that it does clup in humidity , but it
                                                                                                                                                    > also
                                                                                                                                                    > > crushes back to crystals easily because it is just
                                                                                                                                                    > > salt. it is the brand used in most professional
                                                                                                                                                    > > kitchens as well. i happen to have 2 3lb boxes in
                                                                                                                                                    > my
                                                                                                                                                    > > home kitchen that i get at work because it is less
                                                                                                                                                    > > than 2 bucks there. i personally do not add salt
                                                                                                                                                    > to
                                                                                                                                                    > > fresh water tanks, but i do cook with diamond.
                                                                                                                                                    > every
                                                                                                                                                    > > kitchen that i have toured uses it in CA, as well
                                                                                                                                                    > as
                                                                                                                                                    > > in Vegas and reno in the big hotels. why use
                                                                                                                                                    > crappy
                                                                                                                                                    > > salt when the real thing is so cheap? last time
                                                                                                                                                    > we
                                                                                                                                                    > > went round on this topic i posted from morton, and
                                                                                                                                                    > > then do have a real kosher salt, and a kosher
                                                                                                                                                    > style
                                                                                                                                                    > > table salt.
                                                                                                                                                    > > paul
                                                                                                                                                    > > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > I guess I'll have to be more specific from now
                                                                                                                                                    > on.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > I'm referring
                                                                                                                                                    > > > to "Diamond Crystal" brand Kosher salt, which
                                                                                                                                                    > has no
                                                                                                                                                    > > > mention of any
                                                                                                                                                    > > > other (anti-caking) ingredients -- and which
                                                                                                                                                    > will
                                                                                                                                                    > > > cake up badly in
                                                                                                                                                    > > > the presence of high humidity. I guess other
                                                                                                                                                    > brands
                                                                                                                                                    > > > such
                                                                                                                                                    > > > as "Mortons" may contain anti-caking agents, but
                                                                                                                                                    > I
                                                                                                                                                    > > > don't think of
                                                                                                                                                    > > > them, as Diamond Crystal seems to be the only
                                                                                                                                                    > one in
                                                                                                                                                    > > > this area
                                                                                                                                                    > > > packaged in a 3 lb box labeled as Kosher. While
                                                                                                                                                    > I
                                                                                                                                                    > > > do see Morton's
                                                                                                                                                    > > > and other brands, they are only found in the 1
                                                                                                                                                    > lb
                                                                                                                                                    > > > box as "table salt"
                                                                                                                                                    > > > (in this area). Steve, while it may be
                                                                                                                                                    > perfectly
                                                                                                                                                    > > > safe to use table
                                                                                                                                                    > > > salt (w/anti-caking ingredients and all), I
                                                                                                                                                    > feel;
                                                                                                                                                    > > > why add other stuff
                                                                                                                                                    > > > to your aquarium (safe or not) if you don't have
                                                                                                                                                    > to?
                                                                                                                                                    > > > I used to use
                                                                                                                                                    > > > table salt too, way back when . . . , but
                                                                                                                                                    > switched
                                                                                                                                                    > > > to Diamond Crystal
                                                                                                                                                    > > > for the above reason. We're all aware of the
                                                                                                                                                    > many
                                                                                                                                                    > > > additives (those
                                                                                                                                                    > > > unpronounceable things) that are found in many
                                                                                                                                                    > > > packaged foods for
                                                                                                                                                    > > > human consumption, as preservatives, colors,
                                                                                                                                                    > etc.,
                                                                                                                                                    > > > which are
                                                                                                                                                    > > > supposedly safe, but why eat some of that crap
                                                                                                                                                    > if
                                                                                                                                                    > > > you don't need to.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > That's just my way of thinking -- eat what you
                                                                                                                                                    > want,
                                                                                                                                                    > > > and add stuff to
                                                                                                                                                    > > > your tank as you want; that's up to you. Ray
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > \
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve
                                                                                                                                                    > Szabo"
                                                                                                                                                    > > > <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Ray,
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Actually, you will find anti-caking agents in
                                                                                                                                                    > many
                                                                                                                                                    > > > brands of kosher
                                                                                                                                                    > > > salt as
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > well--you did mean anti-caking agents, didn't
                                                                                                                                                    > you?
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > There is absolutely no logical reason not to
                                                                                                                                                    > use
                                                                                                                                                    > > > table salt in an
                                                                                                                                                    > > > aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > The anti-caking agents will not harm the
                                                                                                                                                    > fishes,
                                                                                                                                                    > > > nor will the
                                                                                                                                                    > > > iodine found
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > in table salt, especially if you are doing
                                                                                                                                                    > regular
                                                                                                                                                    > > > water changes as
                                                                                                                                                    > > > well.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > No, not okay (because of caking agents -- &
                                                                                                                                                    > > > iodine), but go to the
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > supermarket (for Kosher salt) instead of the
                                                                                                                                                    > lfs;
                                                                                                                                                    > > > its a lot
                                                                                                                                                    > > > cheaper.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Ray
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > \
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane &
                                                                                                                                                    > Leslie
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK
                                                                                                                                                    > or
                                                                                                                                                    > > > do I need to wait
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > until
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > I can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK
                                                                                                                                                    > or No
                                                                                                                                                    > > > it's not will
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > suffice.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > I've seen how some get about salt around
                                                                                                                                                    > here.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > =)
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free
                                                                                                                                                    > stuff?
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > Sale!
                                                                                                                                                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                    > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                    > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                                                                                                                                                    > protection around
                                                                                                                                                    > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    === message truncated ===


                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10777 From: paul helms Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Ray, Mark - #'s
                                                                                                                                                    your nitrates are going to shoot way up in the next
                                                                                                                                                    week with that much nitrite in the water! be careful
                                                                                                                                                    --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...>
                                                                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > Nitrates at 35, Ammonia 0, Nitrites .20 , Ph 7.4
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > This is after a major water change yesterday
                                                                                                                                                    > morning. I've decided
                                                                                                                                                    > against doing another and will be adding the BP back
                                                                                                                                                    > into the main tank
                                                                                                                                                    > this evening.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Does everything look OK or do I need to be doing
                                                                                                                                                    > something?
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > My catfish, normally hyper active, is very docile
                                                                                                                                                    > but I'm thinking it
                                                                                                                                                    > may because I took the terrorist (firemouth) out.
                                                                                                                                                    > Last time I had an
                                                                                                                                                    > inactive catfish, he died within a few hours.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Thanks for any opinions.all are welcome!
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Leslie
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >

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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10778 From: eggybumstu Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Another pH queery
                                                                                                                                                    Hello all,

                                                                                                                                                    In my tank atwork the pH level has is at 8.0 and the tap water is at
                                                                                                                                                    7.8. This to me seems a little high and I'm sure its the reason that
                                                                                                                                                    there have been a few fatalities of newly introduced fish of late. I
                                                                                                                                                    am aware of the pH down product but wondered if anyone kn ows of any
                                                                                                                                                    more natural solution/additive. The tank is a 3foot community
                                                                                                                                                    tropical with bogwood and has nothing in it that I would think to
                                                                                                                                                    cause these conditions.

                                                                                                                                                    Cheers for any advice Stu :D
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10779 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Table salt

                                                                                                                                                    But there is however one more confusion if Dictionary.com has been called in for a definition rescue:

                                                                                                                                                    1. Salt: A colorless or white crystalline solid, chiefly sodium chloride, used extensively in ground or granulated form as a food seasoning and preservative. Also called common salt, table salt.
                                                                                                                                                    2. A chemical compound formed by replacing all or part of the hydrogen ions of an acid with metal ions or electropositive radicals.
                                                                                                                                                    3. salts Any of various mineral salts used as laxatives or cathartics.
                                                                                                                                                    4. salts Smelling salts.
                                                                                                                                                    5. Epsom salts. Often used in the plural.
                                                                                                                                                    6. An element that gives flavor or zest.

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Basically, the term Salt also implies stuff like Calcium chloride, Copper sulphate, Magnesium sulphate, all phosphates, nitrates, sulphates, carbonates etc. are all salts. What we need is Sodium chloride. I guess, if terminology is so important, then why not start using Sodium chloride instead of SALT?

                                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                    Sent: 28 April 2005 08:26
                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    been there and done that, and i am correct. so is
                                                                                                                                                    dictionary.com in this instance.
                                                                                                                                                    --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > I have found dictionary.com to be an unreliable
                                                                                                                                                    > source for all but the
                                                                                                                                                    > simplest questions--like did I spell that word
                                                                                                                                                    > correctly. Look up
                                                                                                                                                    > nitrobacter or nirosoma and see what they have to
                                                                                                                                                    > say. Try a few other
                                                                                                                                                    > advanced terms and see if they agree with your
                                                                                                                                                    > understanding of the term.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Do a search on kosher salt and see what you can
                                                                                                                                                    > find. Find a rabbi and ask
                                                                                                                                                    > him--he will probably refer you to someone else, but
                                                                                                                                                    > you will find out
                                                                                                                                                    > eventually. It is not an easy search.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                    > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:42 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > additives may be "allowed" now, but if you go to any
                                                                                                                                                    > commercial quality kitchen, the kosher salt will be
                                                                                                                                                    > true kosher salt, which means that it has nothing
                                                                                                                                                    > added to it.  here is the literal defintion of
                                                                                                                                                    > kosher
                                                                                                                                                    > salt from dictionary.com.:
                                                                                                                                                    > kosher salt
                                                                                                                                                    > n.
                                                                                                                                                    > A refined, coarse-grained salt with no additives
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > looser jewish groups may have allowed a change in it
                                                                                                                                                    > in certain areas, but true  and literal kosher salt
                                                                                                                                                    > is
                                                                                                                                                    > nothing but pure salt!
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > I did, on the last go around on this topic.
                                                                                                                                                    > > Anti-caking agents are allowed,
                                                                                                                                                    > > and salt containing the anti-caking agents may,
                                                                                                                                                    > > indeed, be marked as being
                                                                                                                                                    > > kosher. It took me the better part of an evening
                                                                                                                                                    > to
                                                                                                                                                    > > determine this.
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    > > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                    > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:14 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > that is because they are not true kosher products.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > > look up the definition
                                                                                                                                                    > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Ray,
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Actually, you will find anti-caking agents in
                                                                                                                                                    > many
                                                                                                                                                    > > > brands of kosher salt as
                                                                                                                                                    > > > well--you did mean anti-caking agents, didn't
                                                                                                                                                    > you?
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > There is absolutely no logical reason not to use
                                                                                                                                                    > > > table salt in an aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > The anti-caking agents will not harm the fishes,
                                                                                                                                                    > > nor
                                                                                                                                                    > > > will the iodine found
                                                                                                                                                    > > > in table salt, especially if you are doing
                                                                                                                                                    > regular
                                                                                                                                                    > > > water changes as well.
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > No, not okay (because of caking agents  -- &
                                                                                                                                                    > > > iodine), but go to the
                                                                                                                                                    > > > supermarket (for Kosher salt) instead of the
                                                                                                                                                    > lfs;
                                                                                                                                                    > > > its a lot cheaper. 
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Ray                                            

                                                                                                                                                    > > 
                                                                                                                                                    > >

                                                                                                                                                    >                  

                                                                                                                                                    > > > \                                              

                                                                                                                                                    > > 
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    >                   

                                                                                                                                                    > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane &
                                                                                                                                                    > Leslie
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Moore "
                                                                                                                                                    > > > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > All I have is table salt to add.  Is this OK
                                                                                                                                                    > or
                                                                                                                                                    > > do
                                                                                                                                                    > > > I need to wait
                                                                                                                                                    > > > until
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I can get to LFS?  A simple yes this is OK or
                                                                                                                                                    > No
                                                                                                                                                    > > > it's not will
                                                                                                                                                    > > > suffice.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I've seen how some get about salt around here.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > > =)
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > 
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Sale !
                                                                                                                                                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > 
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >

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                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10780 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: New prob...? Please help...again.
                                                                                                                                                    Sometimes color changing in BPs is normal, to an extent(just thought
                                                                                                                                                    I'd point this out). However, keeping in mind what has been going on
                                                                                                                                                    in this tank plus the milky white of the fins seems like its more than
                                                                                                                                                    that. While these large white patches could be fungus (do you see any
                                                                                                                                                    cottony growths?), I really couldn't say without seeing it and even
                                                                                                                                                    then, pictures may not indicate the whole thing. It would seem as if
                                                                                                                                                    he needs to be treated -- yes I know, you have M. Green in there now,
                                                                                                                                                    for the other guy. Apparently, this medication is not doing this first
                                                                                                                                                    guy any good. I don't like doing anything drastic, nor do I like to
                                                                                                                                                    use medications indiscriminently, but since the guy with the gill
                                                                                                                                                    problem seems to be doing better, you might try switching to a
                                                                                                                                                    medication that will do them both good -- you shouldn't mix
                                                                                                                                                    medications. I don't believe that this condition was merely stress
                                                                                                                                                    induced (although most diseases do start through some stress), neither
                                                                                                                                                    did it happen because his mate was out for 24 hours. While, again, not
                                                                                                                                                    being a fish pathologist I cannot say what this is, but can only offer
                                                                                                                                                    safe and possibly (usually generally effective in similar
                                                                                                                                                    circumstances) beneficial treatment. If you want to try this, remove
                                                                                                                                                    the M. Green with the use of carbon filtration and use Jungle
                                                                                                                                                    Laboratories' "Fungus Eliminator", which does a lot more than just
                                                                                                                                                    treat fungus as may be suggested. Having several broad-range anti-
                                                                                                                                                    biotics, its good against a host of fungal, bacterial and protozoan
                                                                                                                                                    induced illnesses, and is considered very safe. It would seem to
                                                                                                                                                    possibly be effective against what both of these BPs have, which looks
                                                                                                                                                    to be related, however, I can't offer any guarantees. Only you will
                                                                                                                                                    have to decide if you want to give this a try. It is safe, and has got
                                                                                                                                                    to be a better action than doing nothing (it cannot be detrimental,
                                                                                                                                                    although a better medication MAY be possible if we knew what we were
                                                                                                                                                    dealing with) -- unless someone else has as better idea of what this
                                                                                                                                                    is. Without anything more concrete, and this one seems odd, that's
                                                                                                                                                    about all I can offer; hope its of some help. Ray
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > The fish that had the puffy white spots.
                                                                                                                                                    > His puffs are down but still white. I took this to mean he was
                                                                                                                                                    getting
                                                                                                                                                    > better. Well..now he has several very large white spots all over.
                                                                                                                                                    His
                                                                                                                                                    > sides, his top fin, his eye spots. They are large spots, not small
                                                                                                                                                    salt
                                                                                                                                                    > like spots. Like he has paled in places. Then his fin where usually
                                                                                                                                                    > transparent, is now a milky white. WHAT is this?!
                                                                                                                                                    > Stress induced? The water WAS bad, not bad now. His "mate" was out
                                                                                                                                                    for
                                                                                                                                                    > just over 24 hours, could that be it?
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10781 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: ph test
                                                                                                                                                    Never realized this about west coast tap water. That's great if you're
                                                                                                                                                    keeping Rift Lake Cichlids. Some hobbyists keeping these fish would
                                                                                                                                                    die for this kind of water. Otherwise, though, a pH of 9 is not really
                                                                                                                                                    normal, as must be realized. Actually, many fish will not live in such
                                                                                                                                                    a high pH without the stress of this parameter bringing on disease;
                                                                                                                                                    they just can't tolerate this extreme (for them). Ray
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > 9 is a pretty normal tap water ph, atleast on the west
                                                                                                                                                    > coast. nothing to worry about it will balance out
                                                                                                                                                    > --- Rachel <star9crystal@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > i just wanted to give ya a heads up, i just did a ph
                                                                                                                                                    > > test on the water
                                                                                                                                                    > > i use before i treat it, and the ph is 9
                                                                                                                                                    > > i also called the guy at the petstore and informed
                                                                                                                                                    > > him about his
                                                                                                                                                    > > cartridges being worthless and dirty
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                    > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                                    > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10782 From: TankGurl Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Another pH queery
                                                                                                                                                    Peat is often used in Discus tanks to keep the PH low. I believe you
                                                                                                                                                    can buy loose/bagged peat and mix it in with your filtration.

                                                                                                                                                    Kelly

                                                                                                                                                    On 4/28/05, eggybumstu <eggybumstu@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > In my tank atwork the pH level has is at 8.0 and the tap water is at
                                                                                                                                                    > 7.8. This to me seems a little high and I'm sure its the reason that
                                                                                                                                                    > there have been a few fatalities of newly introduced fish of late. I
                                                                                                                                                    > am aware of the pH down product but wondered if anyone kn ows of any
                                                                                                                                                    > more natural solution/additive. The tank is a 3foot community
                                                                                                                                                    > tropical with bogwood and has nothing in it that I would think to
                                                                                                                                                    > cause these conditions.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Cheers for any advice Stu :D
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                    > .
                                                                                                                                                    > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >


                                                                                                                                                    --
                                                                                                                                                    65g Malawi
                                                                                                                                                    http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?fish_gurl
                                                                                                                                                    http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=7176

                                                                                                                                                    135g Frontosa
                                                                                                                                                    http://www.picturetrail.com/tankgurl
                                                                                                                                                    http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=8011
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10783 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    I hear you, Paul! I would hope to believe though, that most members
                                                                                                                                                    on this forum must realize (hopefully) that true Kosher salt contains
                                                                                                                                                    no additives. Those hugh kitchens must be something. Back many
                                                                                                                                                    years, I use to have the opportunity to "tour" smaller kitchens. Had
                                                                                                                                                    a second, part-time job (on weekends) where I'd help line fridges
                                                                                                                                                    with sheet stainless steel, so had the chance to check them out while
                                                                                                                                                    I worked. Ray
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > they are fun! i have done them in Both Reno and Las
                                                                                                                                                    > Vegas, San Francisco, etc. i have been in the
                                                                                                                                                    > industry since 1993, and have seen a lot of really
                                                                                                                                                    > nice kitchens. the hotels you can't exactly call a
                                                                                                                                                    > kitchen though lol. they are the size of a house!
                                                                                                                                                    > distributors fridges are pretty cool too. that is why
                                                                                                                                                    > this whole kosher salt thing is pissing me off. real
                                                                                                                                                    > kosher salt is quite simply 100% natural, no
                                                                                                                                                    > preservatoves additives etc, as you already know, but
                                                                                                                                                    > this steve guy just wants to be pig headed about it.
                                                                                                                                                    > i give him a dictionary entry and he wants to argue as
                                                                                                                                                    > it is not up to his standards of a dictionary. i
                                                                                                                                                    > guess when he publishes a dictionary i will listen to
                                                                                                                                                    > what he has to say. as for me, i have nearly 13 years
                                                                                                                                                    > experience in the food industry, and having taken
                                                                                                                                                    > courses in SF at the California Culenary Academy, so i
                                                                                                                                                    > may have some clue..lmao. anyway, it is so awesome to
                                                                                                                                                    > see the equipment the big big guys use. if you ever
                                                                                                                                                    > get the opprotunity to check one out, go for it!
                                                                                                                                                    > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Paul, Thanks for filling me in on the Morton's
                                                                                                                                                    > > salt. I read
                                                                                                                                                    > > (probably in the last go around on this topic) that
                                                                                                                                                    > > Morton's does
                                                                                                                                                    > > have a Kosher salt, although I have seen it in this
                                                                                                                                                    > > area. Yeah, I
                                                                                                                                                    > > know the Diamond Crystal salt will crumble back to
                                                                                                                                                    > > crystals just by
                                                                                                                                                    > > crushing it, but I just wanted to point out that it
                                                                                                                                                    > > will clump, and
                                                                                                                                                    > > so it can't contain any anti-caking ingredients. I
                                                                                                                                                    > > don't normally
                                                                                                                                                    > > add salt to my tanks either, feeling its not
                                                                                                                                                    > > necessary, but it does
                                                                                                                                                    > > have its uses. By the way, those kitchen tours
                                                                                                                                                    > > sound intriguing.
                                                                                                                                                    > > Ray
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                    > > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > ray,
                                                                                                                                                    > > > diamond crystal is probably the most popular brand
                                                                                                                                                    > > of
                                                                                                                                                    > > > "kosher salt" because it is real kosher salt. you
                                                                                                                                                    > > are
                                                                                                                                                    > > > correct that it does clup in humidity , but it
                                                                                                                                                    > > also
                                                                                                                                                    > > > crushes back to crystals easily because it is just
                                                                                                                                                    > > > salt. it is the brand used in most professional
                                                                                                                                                    > > > kitchens as well. i happen to have 2 3lb boxes in
                                                                                                                                                    > > my
                                                                                                                                                    > > > home kitchen that i get at work because it is less
                                                                                                                                                    > > > than 2 bucks there. i personally do not add salt
                                                                                                                                                    > > to
                                                                                                                                                    > > > fresh water tanks, but i do cook with diamond.
                                                                                                                                                    > > every
                                                                                                                                                    > > > kitchen that i have toured uses it in CA, as well
                                                                                                                                                    > > as
                                                                                                                                                    > > > in Vegas and reno in the big hotels. why use
                                                                                                                                                    > > crappy
                                                                                                                                                    > > > salt when the real thing is so cheap? last time
                                                                                                                                                    > > we
                                                                                                                                                    > > > went round on this topic i posted from morton, and
                                                                                                                                                    > > > then do have a real kosher salt, and a kosher
                                                                                                                                                    > > style
                                                                                                                                                    > > > table salt.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > paul
                                                                                                                                                    > > > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I guess I'll have to be more specific from now
                                                                                                                                                    > > on.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I'm referring
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > to "Diamond Crystal" brand Kosher salt, which
                                                                                                                                                    > > has no
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > mention of any
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > other (anti-caking) ingredients -- and which
                                                                                                                                                    > > will
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > cake up badly in
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > the presence of high humidity. I guess other
                                                                                                                                                    > > brands
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > such
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > as "Mortons" may contain anti-caking agents, but
                                                                                                                                                    > > I
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > don't think of
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > them, as Diamond Crystal seems to be the only
                                                                                                                                                    > > one in
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > this area
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > packaged in a 3 lb box labeled as Kosher. While
                                                                                                                                                    > > I
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > do see Morton's
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > and other brands, they are only found in the 1
                                                                                                                                                    > > lb
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > box as "table salt"
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > (in this area). Steve, while it may be
                                                                                                                                                    > > perfectly
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > safe to use table
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > salt (w/anti-caking ingredients and all), I
                                                                                                                                                    > > feel;
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > why add other stuff
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > to your aquarium (safe or not) if you don't have
                                                                                                                                                    > > to?
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I used to use
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > table salt too, way back when . . . , but
                                                                                                                                                    > > switched
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > to Diamond Crystal
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > for the above reason. We're all aware of the
                                                                                                                                                    > > many
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > additives (those
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > unpronounceable things) that are found in many
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > packaged foods for
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > human consumption, as preservatives, colors,
                                                                                                                                                    > > etc.,
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > which are
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > supposedly safe, but why eat some of that crap
                                                                                                                                                    > > if
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > you don't need to.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > That's just my way of thinking -- eat what you
                                                                                                                                                    > > want,
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > and add stuff to
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > your tank as you want; that's up to you. Ray
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > \
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve
                                                                                                                                                    > > Szabo"
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > Ray,
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > Actually, you will find anti-caking agents in
                                                                                                                                                    > > many
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > brands of kosher
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > salt as
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > well--you did mean anti-caking agents, didn't
                                                                                                                                                    > > you?
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > There is absolutely no logical reason not to
                                                                                                                                                    > > use
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > table salt in an
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > The anti-caking agents will not harm the
                                                                                                                                                    > > fishes,
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > nor will the
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > iodine found
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > in table salt, especially if you are doing
                                                                                                                                                    > > regular
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > water changes as
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > well.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > No, not okay (because of caking agents -- &
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > iodine), but go to the
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > supermarket (for Kosher salt) instead of the
                                                                                                                                                    > > lfs;
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > its a lot
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > cheaper.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Ray
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > \
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane &
                                                                                                                                                    > > Leslie
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK
                                                                                                                                                    > > or
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > do I need to wait
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > until
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > > I can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK
                                                                                                                                                    > > or No
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > it's not will
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > suffice.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > > I've seen how some get about salt around
                                                                                                                                                    > > here.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > =)
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free
                                                                                                                                                    > > stuff?
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Garage
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > > Sale!
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                                                                                                                                                    > > protection around
                                                                                                                                                    > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > === message truncated ===
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                    > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                                    > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10784 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Another pH queery
                                                                                                                                                    Stu, While these pH values may seem a little high, they're still well
                                                                                                                                                    within the living range of most tropical fish. As for the fatalities
                                                                                                                                                    of newly introduced fish, its very possible (probable) that these fish
                                                                                                                                                    were never acclimated properly and/or slowly enough, depending upon the
                                                                                                                                                    pH values of their last environment. However, you could try some new
                                                                                                                                                    pieces of driftwood which should lower the pH (and probably release
                                                                                                                                                    tannins as well), or add peat to your filter as I belierve has already
                                                                                                                                                    been suggested. Ray
                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "eggybumstu" <eggybumstu@y...>
                                                                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > In my tank atwork the pH level has is at 8.0 and the tap water is at
                                                                                                                                                    > 7.8. This to me seems a little high and I'm sure its the reason that
                                                                                                                                                    > there have been a few fatalities of newly introduced fish of late. I
                                                                                                                                                    > am aware of the pH down product but wondered if anyone kn ows of any
                                                                                                                                                    > more natural solution/additive. The tank is a 3foot community
                                                                                                                                                    > tropical with bogwood and has nothing in it that I would think to
                                                                                                                                                    > cause these conditions.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Cheers for any advice Stu :D
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10785 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Need a small filter

                                                                                                                                                    I’m putting my large BP back in the 15 gal.  He keeps tormenting my smaller one.  I need a filter to go into this tank so he can stay there until he chills out.  (the timeout tank?)

                                                                                                                                                    If anyone has one or has a recommendation for one, I would appreciate it.  I will pay if you happen to have one lying around.

                                                                                                                                                    Also, are submersible filters good for small tanks?  I was thinking an over the side was better but I’m no expert. =)

                                                                                                                                                    Thanks

                                                                                                                                                    Leslie

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10786 From: Trevor Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Another pH queery
                                                                                                                                                    You really don't need to worry so much about the pH. The chemicals to
                                                                                                                                                    alter it do more harm than good to your tank. If you buy your fish
                                                                                                                                                    locally, they should already be used to the local water, since that's
                                                                                                                                                    what your dealer has been keeping them in.

                                                                                                                                                    - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "eggybumstu" <eggybumstu@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > In my tank atwork the pH level has is at 8.0 and the tap water is at
                                                                                                                                                    > 7.8. This to me seems a little high and I'm sure its the reason that
                                                                                                                                                    > there have been a few fatalities of newly introduced fish of late. I
                                                                                                                                                    > am aware of the pH down product but wondered if anyone kn ows of any
                                                                                                                                                    > more natural solution/additive. The tank is a 3foot community
                                                                                                                                                    > tropical with bogwood and has nothing in it that I would think to
                                                                                                                                                    > cause these conditions.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Cheers for any advice Stu :D
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10787 From: Trevor Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Need a small filter
                                                                                                                                                    It basically comes down to a matter of personal preference and how
                                                                                                                                                    much you want to spend. A hang-on-the-back power filter (such as the
                                                                                                                                                    "Whisper" line) would be my preference, because they're pretty cheap,
                                                                                                                                                    easy to clean, and don't take a lot of space inside the tank.
                                                                                                                                                    Submersible filters are a lot more work to clean out.

                                                                                                                                                    - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                    <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > I'm putting my large BP back in the 15 gal. He keeps tormenting my
                                                                                                                                                    > smaller one. I need a filter to go into this tank so he can stay there
                                                                                                                                                    > until he chills out. (the timeout tank?)
                                                                                                                                                    > If anyone has one or has a recommendation for one, I would appreciate
                                                                                                                                                    > it. I will pay if you happen to have one lying around.
                                                                                                                                                    > Also, are submersible filters good for small tanks? I was thinking an
                                                                                                                                                    > over the side was better but I'm no expert. =)
                                                                                                                                                    > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                    > Leslie
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10788 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                        Again I ask, what if the anti-caking agents are also kosher?  In that case, kosher salt could be sold with kosher anti-caking agents in them, right?  All you need is a special member of the Jewish "Church" (I forget what it is called) to watch the anti-caking ingredients being made to make sure they meet the standards of Judaism and then another person to make sure the salt being added to them meets standards and then declare both ingredients Kosher, and then the final product is also Kosher. 
                                                                                                                                                        I think you and Steve are just too stubborn.  You should both be banned from the group!  I'm tired of you both.  Be gone with you.  Just joking, you two are too smart to leave! :) 
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10789 From: paul helms Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Another pH queery
                                                                                                                                                    peat is used to soften the water, but it releases a
                                                                                                                                                    yellw tinit into the water
                                                                                                                                                    --- TankGurl <fishgoddess@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > Peat is often used in Discus tanks to keep the PH
                                                                                                                                                    > low. I believe you
                                                                                                                                                    > can buy loose/bagged peat and mix it in with your
                                                                                                                                                    > filtration.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Kelly
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > On 4/28/05, eggybumstu <eggybumstu@...>
                                                                                                                                                    > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > In my tank atwork the pH level has is at 8.0 and
                                                                                                                                                    > the tap water is at
                                                                                                                                                    > > 7.8. This to me seems a little high and I'm sure
                                                                                                                                                    > its the reason that
                                                                                                                                                    > > there have been a few fatalities of newly
                                                                                                                                                    > introduced fish of late. I
                                                                                                                                                    > > am aware of the pH down product but wondered if
                                                                                                                                                    > anyone kn ows of any
                                                                                                                                                    > > more natural solution/additive. The tank is a
                                                                                                                                                    > 3foot community
                                                                                                                                                    > > tropical with bogwood and has nothing in it that I
                                                                                                                                                    > would think to
                                                                                                                                                    > > cause these conditions.
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Cheers for any advice Stu :D
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                                                                    > when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                    > > .
                                                                                                                                                    > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                    > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                                                    > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                                                    > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                    > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                    > matter
                                                                                                                                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > --
                                                                                                                                                    > 65g Malawi
                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?fish_gurl
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=7176
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > 135g Frontosa
                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.picturetrail.com/tankgurl
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=8011
                                                                                                                                                    >

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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10790 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        I strongly disapprove of"expert fish keepers".  They don't know anything we don't know.  The ones with degrees are usually in biology, marine biology, animal sciences, etc.  None of them are Chemists!  Why would we take a fishkeeper as an expert on the subject of carbon filtration if they didn't at least have a masters in chemistry?  And even then, if they hadn't done scientific studies on the use of carbon filtration, they still only repeat their own opinions based on experts with no chemistry background. 
                                                                                                                                                        I hereby call for the banning of all experts from aquaria forever!  Anybody claiming to be an expert should be banned from all fish stores world wide, and glass stores should not allow them to buy glass strong enough to build a tank.  And I'm serious on this crazy statement! :)
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                    well, every book, flyer, add, tank setup guide, tank
                                                                                                                                                    instructions, and filter instructions that i have ever
                                                                                                                                                    seen were pro...so i hardly think he is the last
                                                                                                                                                    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10791 From: paul helms Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    anti caking agnts are not natural...#1. and #2 the
                                                                                                                                                    defintion oif kosher salt is pure salt no additives.
                                                                                                                                                    there are many salts marketed as kosher because of the
                                                                                                                                                    cryystaline structure, these one are not marketed as
                                                                                                                                                    true kosher, or kosher for passover. it has become a
                                                                                                                                                    descriptive term rather than a natural one. i have
                                                                                                                                                    done jewish catering and had a rabbi in the kitchen
                                                                                                                                                    --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                                    <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > Again I ask, what if the anti-caking agents are
                                                                                                                                                    > also kosher? In that
                                                                                                                                                    > case, kosher salt could be sold with kosher
                                                                                                                                                    > anti-caking agents in them,
                                                                                                                                                    > right? All you need is a special member of the
                                                                                                                                                    > Jewish "Church" (I forget
                                                                                                                                                    > what it is called) to watch the anti-caking
                                                                                                                                                    > ingredients being made to make
                                                                                                                                                    > sure they meet the standards of Judaism and then
                                                                                                                                                    > another person to make sure
                                                                                                                                                    > the salt being added to them meets standards and
                                                                                                                                                    > then declare both
                                                                                                                                                    > ingredients Kosher, and then the final product is
                                                                                                                                                    > also Kosher.
                                                                                                                                                    > I think you and Steve are just too stubborn.
                                                                                                                                                    > You should both be banned
                                                                                                                                                    > from the group! I'm tired of you both. Be gone
                                                                                                                                                    > with you. Just joking, you
                                                                                                                                                    > two are too smart to leave! :)
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.

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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10792 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Need a small filter
                                                                                                                                                    Sponge filter and air pump: $10.  When not used in the 15 gallon tank, put it in your bigger tank. 
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.

                                                                                                                                                    Leslie

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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10793 From: paul helms Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                    i do not use books for anything more than shjowing
                                                                                                                                                    pics and general tolerances of fish. that statement
                                                                                                                                                    was regarding steves about tim
                                                                                                                                                    --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                                    <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > I strongly disapprove of"expert fish keepers".
                                                                                                                                                    > They don't know anything
                                                                                                                                                    > we don't know. The ones with degrees are usually in
                                                                                                                                                    > biology, marine biology
                                                                                                                                                    > animal sciences, etc. None of them are Chemists!
                                                                                                                                                    > Why would we take a
                                                                                                                                                    > fishkeeper as an expert on the subject of carbon
                                                                                                                                                    > filtration if they didn't
                                                                                                                                                    > at least have a masters in chemistry? And even
                                                                                                                                                    > then, if they hadn't done
                                                                                                                                                    > scientific studies on the use of carbon filtration,
                                                                                                                                                    > they still only repeat
                                                                                                                                                    > their own opinions based on experts with no
                                                                                                                                                    > chemistry background.
                                                                                                                                                    > I hereby call for the banning of all experts
                                                                                                                                                    > from aquaria forever!
                                                                                                                                                    > Anybody claiming to be an expert should be banned
                                                                                                                                                    > from all fish stores world
                                                                                                                                                    > wide, and glass stores should not allow them to buy
                                                                                                                                                    > glass strong enough to
                                                                                                                                                    > build a tank. And I'm serious on this crazy
                                                                                                                                                    > statement! :)
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                    > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                    > well, every book, flyer, add, tank setup guide, tank
                                                                                                                                                    > instructions, and filter instructions that i have
                                                                                                                                                    > ever
                                                                                                                                                    > seen were pro...so i hardly think he is the last

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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10794 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: New prob...? Please help...again.
                                                                                                                                                        I think it is time to suggest a salt dip.  Use 2 tbs salt/gallon of tank water in a bucket.  1 tbs and 2 tsp of the plain salt of your choice and 1 tsp of epson salts.  If you don't have epson salts (I would think most people have it in their medicine stock piles) just use 2 full tablespoons of NaCl salt.  Net the fish into that water for 30 seconds to a minute, and remove it.  If at any time it starts falling on its side during the dip, remove it.  This is just a suggestion.
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                    > The fish that had the puffy white spots.
                                                                                                                                                    > His puffs are down but still white.  I took this to mean he was
                                                                                                                                                    getting
                                                                                                                                                    > better.  Well..now he has several very large white spots all over. 
                                                                                                                                                    His
                                                                                                                                                    > sides, his top fin, his eye spots.  They are large spots, not small
                                                                                                                                                    salt
                                                                                                                                                    > like spots.  Like he has paled in places.  Then his fin where usually
                                                                                                                                                    > transparent, is now a milky white.  WHAT is this?!
                                                                                                                                                    > Stress induced?  The water WAS bad, not bad now.  His "mate" was out
                                                                                                                                                    for
                                                                                                                                                    > just over 24 hours, could that be it?





                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                     
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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10795 From: kb1dva Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: testing and other stuff

                                                                                                                                                    Please forgive my ignorance on this but… if my fish have been doing ok without ph testing, and filters make that ok., then why do you need to test at all. Since I am moving mine from a 2o long to a 90 is it best to watch the numbers! Should a take the ph level of the tank, try and get the new one to that number and adjust as needed.  Emily

                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10796 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                    If a rabbi said it, I would think they would know what they are talking about better than me, a simple Southern Baptist. :) 
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                    anti caking agnts are not natural...#1.  and #2 the
                                                                                                                                                    defintion oif kosher salt is pure salt no additives.
                                                                                                                                                    there are many salts marketed as kosher because of the
                                                                                                                                                    cryystaline structure, these one are not marketed as
                                                                                                                                                    true kosher, or kosher for passover.  it has become a
                                                                                                                                                    descriptive term rather than a natural one.  i have
                                                                                                                                                    done jewish catering and had a rabbi in the kitchen
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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10797 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Another pH queery
                                                                                                                                                    Which can be removed with carbon... 
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                    peat is used to soften the water, but it releases a
                                                                                                                                                    yellw tinit into the water
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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10798 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: testing and other stuff
                                                                                                                                                    pH testing is not really that important. 
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                    Please forgive my ignorance on this but… if my fish have been doing ok without ph testing, and filters make that ok., then why do you need to test at all. Since I am moving mine from a 2o long to a 90 is it best to watch the numbers! Should a take the ph level of the tank, try and get the new one to that number and adjust as needed.  Emily
                                                                                                                                                    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10799 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Need a small filter
                                                                                                                                                    I also agree a spongfilter and airpump...................
                                                                                                                                                    get a sponge rated bigger then the 15 gallons, makes it nice when those unexpected power outages happen...
                                                                                                                                                    spone filter does not need power or air supply to keep working.. or you could opt for a box filter but thse require airflow to keep working..

                                                                                                                                                    Hydro-Sponge Filters
                                                                                                                                                       http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/FILTRATION/Hydro-Sponge_Filters/hydro-sponge_filters.html

                                                                                                                                                    Box Filters
                                                                                                                                                      http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/FILTRATION/Box_Filters/box_filters.html

                                                                                                                                                    rob
                                                                                                                                                    indiana
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10800 From: kb1dva Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: thanks

                                                                                                                                                    I wanted to thank you guys. I have so many questions, I’m afraid you guys are going to think I’m a pest. What do you do for a 90 gallon tank when there’s a power failure?. Should I move the fish and then add to the population, or do it all at the same time. What is the best light set up for a tank that size, one long one or two. I was always taught the dumb question is the one you didn’t ask.  Thanks again                                 Emily in Boston

                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10801 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: ( RE: 90 gallon questions) thanks
                                                                                                                                                    Emily

                                                                                                                                                    What kind of fish do you plan on keeping? plants no plants

                                                                                                                                                    no matter what size of tank you have it has to cycle..
                                                                                                                                                    there are a lot of artciles online about cycling a fish tank I suggest a couple quick reads.
                                                                                                                                                    Basicly your fish produce ammonia through there waste. Nitrates use this waste as a food source and produce Nitrites through there waste.  Your tank will produce Good bacteria to use the Nitrites,plants also use the nitrites. Its one large cycle.

                                                                                                                                                    Both Ammonia and Nitrates are hazardous to your fish. so until your tank builds up the good bacteria its a good idea to slowly add your fish  over a long period of time.

                                                                                                                                                    as far as power outages.. there are a couple easy ways to deal with the issue in a 90 gallon tank.
                                                                                                                                                    basically the power outage should only last a few hours or a day.
                                                                                                                                                    There are basically 3 types of filteration.
                                                                                                                                                    Mechanical, chemical and bacterial.
                                                                                                                                                    For a 90 gallon tank you'd want at least 4x the turn over rate  so 90 gallons x 4 = 360 GPH you can achieve this in 2 smaller filters ( recommended ) or in one large filter.
                                                                                                                                                    Sponge filters are a great back up for power outages because they supply bacterial filteration without any power required. If you add an airpump to the sponge filter it has both mechanical and bacterial filteraion. but if the power goes you loose the mechanical side.. I throw Literally half a dozen sponge replacements in my tanks. the fish use them as caves swim through them hide under them and my fry eat off them. They are not the prettist things though.
                                                                                                                                                    You could also invest in a 12volt- 110 converter and run your fish tanks( airpump ) off a car battery ( short term)

                                                                                                                                                    Lighting Your tank probally has a glass top on it?
                                                                                                                                                    I don't think i have seen a plastic top on a tank over 65 gallons in awhile.  Depending on what you want in your tank, you could get away with anything from hanging a single Household light bulb over the tank ( fish only )
                                                                                                                                                    to installing strip lights .
                                                                                                                                                    if it is a glass top you can easily put 2  long lights across them. The long lights come with either one 48" bulb or two 24" bulbs. if you have a choice I'd go with the two 24' bulbs.

                                                                                                                                                    any more questions please ask tahst what we are here for

                                                                                                                                                    rob
                                                                                                                                                    Indiana

                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 4/28/2005 12:14:47 PM US Eastern Standard Time, vze3pd7a@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                    I wanted to thank you guys. I have so many questions, I’m afraid you guys are going to think I’m a pest. What do you do for a 90 gallon tank when there’s a power failure?. Should I move the fish and then add to the population, or do it all at the same time. What is the best light set up for a tank that size, one long one or two. I was always taught the dumb question is the one you didn’t ask.  Thanks again                                 Emily in Boston




                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10802 From: Ben Noreau Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Looking for people close to me
                                                                                                                                                    I was just wondering if there was any one here from Northern NY (Watertown or surrounding area)
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                    Ben


                                                                                                                                                    Ben

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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10803 From: Eric Miner Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Does this thing work?
                                                                                                                                                    Hello All,

                                                                                                                                                    I was cruising aquarium supply sites and ran across something that
                                                                                                                                                    sounds interesting. My question is – does it work. It's called
                                                                                                                                                    "Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Tap Water Filter". Here's the url –

                                                                                                                                                    http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=22577;category_id=1755;pcid1=;pcid2=

                                                                                                                                                    If this tap water filter work does it take too much out of the water?
                                                                                                                                                    Anyone used this or something like it? It seems like a good way to
                                                                                                                                                    easily treat tap water.

                                                                                                                                                    Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                    Eric
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10804 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Does this thing work?

                                                                                                                                                    Eric,

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    This is basically a low grade DI unit along with a carbon block. You can get a separate DI units in water filter shops for much cheaper and the DI resin is also a 10th the price but then it will involve a bit if DIY to be able to use it on a hose. I am also in the process for trying one of the DIY ones out pretty soon as the API replacement cartridges are a bit wee expensive.

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    It does not really remove everything but reduces a lot of stuff like Nitrates, calcium, magnesium and carbonates etc to a major extent and a lot depends on the flow of the water. I would suggest you use a RO right or other re-mineralizer in the water coming out of this unit to be on  the safe end.

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Surprisingly, these things are 4 times more expensive in the UK , so maybe the price in US at $28 looks right. We get it for £60 a unit and £30 for the replacement cartridge that makes only 60 gallons of DI water. DIY ones can make a lot more though.

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Eric Miner
                                                                                                                                                    Sent: 28 April 2005 23:24
                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] Does this thing work?

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Hello All,

                                                                                                                                                    I was cruising aquarium supply sites and ran across something that
                                                                                                                                                    sounds interesting. My question is – does it work. It's called
                                                                                                                                                    "Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Tap Water Filter". Here's the url –

                                                                                                                                                    http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=22577;category_id=1755;pcid1=;pcid2=

                                                                                                                                                    If this tap water filter work does it take too much out of the water?
                                                                                                                                                    Anyone used this or something like it? It seems like a good way to
                                                                                                                                                    easily treat tap water.

                                                                                                                                                    Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                    Eric






                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10805 From: Nan Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Dead Tank?
                                                                                                                                                    Well, Ray, I would have thought that as well, except these are my own guppy fry from my brief stint at breeding guppys.  They were all healthy and I have had them for over 6 months, and I did try a couple of goldfish in there once as well......they didn't last long.    I know it is something in the tank, but I can't figure out what.  Stumped still, but thanks for the effort.
                                                                                                                                                    ~nan~

                                                                                                                                                    Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    Yeo,  Wrong on all accounts (#4)!, unless you know where these
                                                                                                                                                    guppies are coming from (from a reliable source?).  It is becoming
                                                                                                                                                    increasingly well known unfortunately, that the guppies brought in
                                                                                                                                                    from the Far East just do not hold up, for whatever reason.  If these
                                                                                                                                                    are imported guppies, I would say that's the answer.  Try finding a
                                                                                                                                                    local source (reliable breeder) of quality guppies.  You may have to
                                                                                                                                                    pay more, but at least they should hold up.  Ray                    
                                                                                                                                                    \                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > Ok, here is my situation, and any feed back will be appreciated.

                                                                                                                                                    > Four about 5 months I had a greenwater 10 gallon tank set up for
                                                                                                                                                    growing out my betta fry.  It worked lovely until I added the
                                                                                                                                                    snail...she multiplied...to make a long story short, tank of fry died
                                                                                                                                                    after an overfeeding and I set out to reset it and get it back to
                                                                                                                                                    greenwater state for my upcomeing fry.  I cleaned the tank with warm
                                                                                                                                                    water since the crash occurred to ....well, waste overload!  I
                                                                                                                                                    cleaned the sponge filter as well with dechlorinated water.

                                                                                                                                                    > Instead of leaving it bare bottomed, I decided to add gravel, and I
                                                                                                                                                    bought a bag of black with different colored stones Spectra Stone
                                                                                                                                                    gravel from my LFS.  I set it up with a sponge filter, the stones
                                                                                                                                                    after carefully rinseing them until no more dust came off, some
                                                                                                                                                    plants, and it had a hood on the top.  I added nothing except the
                                                                                                                                                    gravel and a different type of sponge filter.  I added water from my
                                                                                                                                                    35 gallon to help somewhat cycle it (from the bottom of the 35 with a
                                                                                                                                                    very little bit of debris from there), and I let it run for a few
                                                                                                                                                    days.  I did use a dechlorinator (TLC, but I have since switched back
                                                                                                                                                    to my  lovely stress coat!) and a bit of biological starter.   After
                                                                                                                                                    a few days of the clean clear looking water, I added fish.  A couple
                                                                                                                                                    of guppys.

                                                                                                                                                    > Next morning, guppys are dead.  So that evening after work I set
                                                                                                                                                    out to reset this tank, thinking I didn't rinse everything, or clean
                                                                                                                                                    everything well enough and did it again.  I let it run for a week
                                                                                                                                                    this time and added fish.....guppys died overnight.

                                                                                                                                                    > I then got ticked off and put the tank and gravel outside in the
                                                                                                                                                    rain and sun and bought a new set up which is working lovely,
                                                                                                                                                    however, I really want to figure out what the heck is wrong with my
                                                                                                                                                    tank after months of it being fine.  So here are my theories:

                                                                                                                                                    > 1.  I have consistently not cleaned the tank, gravel, or filters
                                                                                                                                                    well enough.

                                                                                                                                                    > 2.  Bad bio starter!

                                                                                                                                                    > 3. The gravel is tainted somehow and it isn't the tank afterall,
                                                                                                                                                    just the gravel.

                                                                                                                                                    > 4.  I am wrong on all accounts and one of you will find the really
                                                                                                                                                    simple answer...*chuckle*

                                                                                                                                                    > So, like I said any and all input is greatly appreciated.  I thank
                                                                                                                                                    you in advance for your help. Have a lovely day!

                                                                                                                                                    > ~nan and crew~





                                                                                                                                                    ~nan and crew~
                                                                                                                                                    Rome, GA
                                                                                                                                                    bettas and soon we add guppys!

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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10806 From: Nan Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Looking for people close to me
                                                                                                                                                    Hey, Ben I used to be up there......about 8 or so years ago! 
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    ~nan~

                                                                                                                                                    Ben Noreau <ben_noreau@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    I was just wondering if there was any one here from Northern NY (Watertown or surrounding area)
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                    Ben


                                                                                                                                                    Ben

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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10807 From: Fish Bloke Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: testing and other stuff
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >pH testing is not really that
                                                                                                                                                    important. 
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Yipes!  That is about the worst over-simplification of a subject I have ever seen.  pH is extremely important, not because of any direct effect on fish, but due to its effect on many other water chemistry factors.  Most fish will adapt to wide pH ranges and appear not to suffer, even over a number of years.  In fact, altering pH may appear to harm some fish, almost always a result of incorrect procedure and a lack of understanding of how pH actually works.
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    If you want the BEST life for your fish, with the resulting longer life, better reproduction and display, then all environmental conditions should be maintained to the "ideal" level.  For novices etc, the ideal thing for pH may simply be to ignore it.  That will depend on species being kept, initial pH, stocking density and so on.
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    My answer is still an oversimplication of a complex subject.
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    I am currently down to 18 tanks at home (not counting the tanks I service proffessionally) and they all get some sort of pH adjustment, even if it only a peice of coral in the filter.
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                    Phil.
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10808 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: somethings not right

                                                                                                                                                    My giant danios are very active, they never stop.  Well they stopped and their undersides are bright red.  They are still alive, but they just sit in mid water like they are suspended.  They’re upright, looks like they are gasping.

                                                                                                                                                    What is wrong with my tank?  I think I’m near retirement in this hobby.

                                                                                                                                                    My husband says he’s always wanted a tank but I can’t get him to do anything with it.

                                                                                                                                                    Thanks for any help with the red bellies.

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Have kids stuff?  Clothing?  Furniture? Baby things?  Check out Zainy Zebra Consignment!  www.ZainyZebra.com

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    There is also a Little Rock Garage Sale!

                                                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10809 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: thanks
                                                                                                                                                    I really like the JBJ light fixtures & so do my plants.
                                                                                                                                                    Cost was about 300 bucks... for a 65 gallon plexi tank but worth every penny because I no longer buy plants. I propagate them & have plenty left over for another 40 gal and even a few turtles in yet another tank.
                                                                                                                                                    here is the url http://www.jbjlighting.com/
                                                                                                                                                    HTH
                                                                                                                                                    red-eye




                                                                                                                                                    At 10:13 AM 4/28/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    I wanted to thank you guys. I have so many questions, I�m afraid you guys are going to think I�m a pest. What do you do for a 90 gallon tank when there�s a power failure?. Should I move the fish and then add to the population, or do it all at the same time. What is the best light set up for a tank that size, one long one or two. I was always taught the dumb question is the one you didn�t ask.  Thanks again                                 Emily in Boston


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                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 10810 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Looking for people close to me
                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                      Wow... I used to vacation at Cranberry lakes not far from Watertown. I even check out the paper mill and the processing plant for what I recall was  an iron ore mining operation.

                                                                                                                                                      red-eye

                                                                                                                                                      At 02:42 PM 4/28/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                      I was just wondering if there was any one here from Northern NY (Watertown or surrounding area)
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                      Ben


                                                                                                                                                      []  

                                                                                                                                                      Ben

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                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10811 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: salt water tank
                                                                                                                                                      damsels are called devils for good reason! they're nasty little fish - nasty meaning territorial and aggressive. i'd suggest taking them out if you plan on having other fish in the tank in the future.

                                                                                                                                                      William Autry <paulandsue1@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                      Started my tank looks good put alot of money in it. I put two fish in
                                                                                                                                                      it Yellowtail Damel I have a 30 gallon tank I put a whisperpower
                                                                                                                                                      fillter 60 Seaclone Protien Skimmer 100  Penguin powerhead Visi-therm
                                                                                                                                                      Deluxe heater 100 watt Will that work





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                                                                                                                                                      I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10812 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                      what?!?! no carbon? this is new to me. what are you supposed to use in filters if there's no carbon? i have eclipses, a minibow and a glass tank that all have carbon filters and they work well.

                                                                                                                                                      Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                      Paul,

                                                                                                                                                      Most prepackaged for the filter carbon is not enough for either the flow
                                                                                                                                                      rate nor the amount of water that will be passing through it. It does not
                                                                                                                                                      matter whether they are the plastic cartridges used in conjunction with
                                                                                                                                                      undergravel filters , or the polyester pads with carbon in the interior
                                                                                                                                                      "pouch". Carbon that has out lived its useful life will start to shed the
                                                                                                                                                      molecules you are picking up. As this is done, it is not a perfect thing and
                                                                                                                                                      molecules can combine to make substances more toxic than those originally
                                                                                                                                                      found in the water.

                                                                                                                                                      I stand by my statement that on should only use carbon as a filtration agent
                                                                                                                                                      when it is indicated, such as to remove remaining medication from the water
                                                                                                                                                      in a tank. Regular water changes will handle the substances that carbon
                                                                                                                                                      removes to an adequate degree. If you want crystal clear water (something
                                                                                                                                                      not often found in nature) then there are other means and methods to achieve
                                                                                                                                                      this that do not carry the risks of carbon filtration.

                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:13 PM
                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter


                                                                                                                                                      it is dependant upon flow rate o water through it.
                                                                                                                                                      most cratridges are specifically for  different models
                                                                                                                                                      of filter because they have the proper amount of
                                                                                                                                                      carbon for teh flow rate.  i do not have exact numbers
                                                                                                                                                      in front of me, but i am sure they could be found.
                                                                                                                                                      there is no reason not to use carbon.
                                                                                                                                                      --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                      > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a
                                                                                                                                                      > regular basis does. You say
                                                                                                                                                      > thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances? Do
                                                                                                                                                      > you need a half cup of
                                                                                                                                                      > carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need one
                                                                                                                                                      > cup, or maybe more? What
                                                                                                                                                      > about variations in adsorption rates between
                                                                                                                                                      > batches?
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do not use
                                                                                                                                                      > carbon on  a regular
                                                                                                                                                      > basis. If you want crystal clear water, use regular
                                                                                                                                                      > water changes and a
                                                                                                                                                      > diatom filter.
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                      > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                      > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                      > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:53 PM
                                                                                                                                                      > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > in verey day aquarium use, it is used to clarify the
                                                                                                                                                      > water and deodorize the tank.  of course it should
                                                                                                                                                      > be
                                                                                                                                                      > replaced after absorbing meds and chemicals, but for
                                                                                                                                                      > odor and clarity use in a stable aquarium it is 30
                                                                                                                                                      > days
                                                                                                                                                      > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                      > > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > As I mentioned a bit earlier to Rachel, in another
                                                                                                                                                      > > thread, carbon should
                                                                                                                                                      > > only be used in specific instances where chemical
                                                                                                                                                      > > filtration may be
                                                                                                                                                      > > warranted. There is no real way to judge when the
                                                                                                                                                      > > efficacy of the carbon
                                                                                                                                                      > > filter drops to an unacceptable level. It depends
                                                                                                                                                      > on
                                                                                                                                                      > > the amount of carbon
                                                                                                                                                      > > being used along with the load of chemicals it is
                                                                                                                                                      > > being asked to remove. In
                                                                                                                                                      > > some cases, one day may be more than it takes,
                                                                                                                                                      > while
                                                                                                                                                      > > in others, the three
                                                                                                                                                      > > months you mention may well be within its limits.
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > Contrary to what Paul has stated, once the carbon
                                                                                                                                                      > > has been used up, i.e.
                                                                                                                                                      > > captured all the molecules it can, it has been
                                                                                                                                                      > shown
                                                                                                                                                      > > that it will release
                                                                                                                                                      > > these molecules, sometimes in a toxic combination
                                                                                                                                                      > > with other molecules, and
                                                                                                                                                      > > it will not serve as a biological filter.
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > With the light load you have in your tank, I'd
                                                                                                                                                      > > suggest removing the carbon
                                                                                                                                                      > > and replacing it with ceramic rings, or another
                                                                                                                                                      > > material that can serve as a
                                                                                                                                                      > > biological filter for your tank. Regular water
                                                                                                                                                      > > changes should suffice to
                                                                                                                                                      > > handle the removal of chemicals that may be
                                                                                                                                                      > harmful
                                                                                                                                                      > > to your fish.
                                                                                                                                                      > > 
                                                                                                                                                      > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > 
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                      > > Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                      > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 12:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                      > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > I have a HOT Magnum canister filter which uses
                                                                                                                                                      > > carbon and a sponge sleeve in
                                                                                                                                                      > > the filter.  Is that ok?  The guy I got the tank
                                                                                                                                                      > and
                                                                                                                                                      > > stuff from told me to
                                                                                                                                                      > > change the carbon every 3 months, but that he
                                                                                                                                                      > hadn't
                                                                                                                                                      > > changed it recently.  I
                                                                                                                                                      > > rinse the sponge sleeve monthly, when should I
                                                                                                                                                      > > change the carbon?
                                                                                                                                                      > > 
                                                                                                                                                      > > Angela
                                                                                                                                                      > > 
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > >       -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                      > >      
                                                                                                                                                      > >       Rachel,  Going by your description of whats
                                                                                                                                                      > > happening, I'm positive
                                                                                                                                                      > >       that it has to be the new carbon canister that is
                                                                                                                                                      > > darkening the
                                                                                                                                                      > > water. 
                                                                                                                                                      > >       It seems like the new canister has a lot of
                                                                                                                                                      > > powdered carbon in it
                                                                                                                                                      > >       probably coating the larger carbon pieces.  Do
                                                                                                                                                      > not
                                                                                                                                                      > > use the other new
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > >       canister; it will just make things worse.  Looks
                                                                                                                                                      > > like the dark water
                                                                                                                                                      > > is
                                                                                                                                                      > >       a result of suspended carbon particles, some of
                                                                                                                                                      > > which may settle out
                                                                                                                                                      > > in
                                                                                                                                                      > >       time, but will only get stirred up again when you
                                                                                                                                                      > > change water.  You
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > >       don't really need these carbon canisters,
                                                                                                                                                      > > especially if you are
                                                                                                                                                      > > doing
                                                                                                                                                      > >       water changes.  While Pat may be correct, I've
                                                                                                                                                      > > always been under the
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > >       impression that activated carbon is good for
                                                                                                                                                      > about
                                                                                                                                                      > > 30 days or so.
                                                                                                                                                      > > As
                                                                                                                                                      > >       some of these canisters can be opened, if you
                                                                                                                                                      > still
                                                                                                                                                      > > want the carbon
                                                                                                                                                      > >       filtration, try getting a small box of carbon
                                                                                                                                                      > from
                                                                                                                                                      > > your lfs and
                                                                                                                                                      > > briefly
                                                                                                                                                      > >       but thoroughly rinse a small portion to load into
                                                                                                                                                      > > your canister, if
                                                                                                                                                      > >       possible.  To get rid of the dark water, I
                                                                                                                                                      > believe
                                                                                                                                                      > > you'll have to
                                                                                                                                                      > > make
                                                                                                                                                      > >       several water changes.  Perhaps a fine-pore
                                                                                                                                                      > sponge
                                                                                                                                                      > > filter may help
                                                                                                                                                      > >       also.  Ray       
                                                                                                                                                      > >       \
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > >       --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel"
                                                                                                                                                      > > <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                      > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                      > >       >
                                                                                                                                                      > >       > so what do i do about the carbon filter. im
                                                                                                                                                      > kind
                                                                                                                                                      > > of wary of
                                                                                                                                                      > > keeping
                                                                                                                                                      > >       my
                                                                                                                                                      > >       > fish in there. should i try the other filter?
                                                                                                                                                      > (it
                                                                                                                                                      > > was a 2 pack)
                                                                                                                                                      > >       > if so how should i treat the filter before i
                                                                                                                                                      > put
                                                                                                                                                      > > it in?
                                                                                                                                                      > >      



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                                                                                                                                                      I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10813 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: think it's flukes
                                                                                                                                                      are you going to dip him or bathe him? i've heard that dipping is 4 tbsp per gallon for no more than 30 min. bathing i think is 1 tbsp per gallon, indefinitely.

                                                                                                                                                      Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                      Yep trying the salt and he�s been QT�d.  I�m picking up kosher salt tonight.  1 tsp per 5 gal?

                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                      Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                      There is also one for Little Rock

                                                                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 5:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: think it's flukes

                                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                                      His gill COVERS have white on them; not functionally connected to his
                                                                                                                                                      gills, but more of a "protective plate" (covering).  His gills should
                                                                                                                                                      be RED RED RED -- normal coloration.  If they were PALE RED, or PINK
                                                                                                                                                      PINK PINK and mucus coated you would have something to worry about as
                                                                                                                                                      that's the color the gills take on when infected by gill flukes.  Not
                                                                                                                                                      to say that you don't have a cause for worry, but you can definitely
                                                                                                                                                      rule that out, thank goodness.  Still have no answer though, but I hope
                                                                                                                                                      you're at least trying the salt treatment.  Ray                       
                                                                                                                                                      \                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                      <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                      > What the heck causes this?  His gills have white on them and I can see
                                                                                                                                                      > into his gills when he breaths. And it is RED RED RED and inflamed
                                                                                                                                                      > looking.  Poor guy!  How'd he get this?  And is it contagious?

                                                                                                                                                      > Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                      > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                      > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/





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                                                                                                                                                      .
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                                                                                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                      .
                                                                                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                                                      I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10814 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: testing and other stuff
                                                                                                                                                      Once you have established a stable baseline of pH through repeated testing,
                                                                                                                                                      you can back off the testing of pH. You should still test it, but maybe only
                                                                                                                                                      once a month or every other month to ensure the pH is staying within your
                                                                                                                                                      baseline range. Also test after any event that could change your water
                                                                                                                                                      quality out of the tap, say after heavy rains, at the change of the season,
                                                                                                                                                      or if there is notice from the water company (assuming you have municipal
                                                                                                                                                      water) about a change, whether it be how they treat the water or when they
                                                                                                                                                      change the source. Around where I live, the water company changes sources
                                                                                                                                                      several times a year--from wells to river to reservoir water. They make the
                                                                                                                                                      changes at pretty much the same time each year, and there is no
                                                                                                                                                      announcement, you just get to know when it is coming.

                                                                                                                                                      As mentioned in another reply, pH can affect other water parameters.
                                                                                                                                                      Toxicity of ammonia varies on pH and temperature, for example.

                                                                                                                                                      When the pH starts to stray from your baseline, you'll need to go to more
                                                                                                                                                      frequent testing, until you are able to stabilize the pH. The source may be
                                                                                                                                                      something in the aquarium, or it could be from the tap water. I do not
                                                                                                                                                      advocate your trying to change the pH to meet what ever goal you have in
                                                                                                                                                      mind, but adjusting your regimen to accommodate the pH. Fish can accept a
                                                                                                                                                      wider range of pH than is generally acknowledged, so your fish should be OK,
                                                                                                                                                      so long as the pH does not take a large jump in a short period of time.

                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                      ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of kb1dva
                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:56 PM
                                                                                                                                                      To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] testing and other stuff



                                                                                                                                                      Please forgive my ignorance on this but. if my fish have been doing ok
                                                                                                                                                      without ph testing, and filters make that ok., then why do you need to test
                                                                                                                                                      at all. Since I am moving mine from a 2o long to a 90 is it best to watch
                                                                                                                                                      the numbers! Should a take the ph level of the tank, try and get the new one
                                                                                                                                                      to that number and adjust as needed. Emily
                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10815 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                      [huffing and puffing to get them flames going]

                                                                                                                                                      Ah, but Conservative Jews live by different rules than Orthodox Jews, and
                                                                                                                                                      then there are the Hasidic Jews, and so on and so forth. What may be
                                                                                                                                                      recognized as kosher by one group may not be so by another group, but they
                                                                                                                                                      are all fairly close.

                                                                                                                                                      [says he who attended a Catholic high school, but other religious teachings
                                                                                                                                                      were taught, as well as course I took at a Presbyterian college]

                                                                                                                                                      [huff, puff]

                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//


                                                                                                                                                      ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 1:00 PM
                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Table salt


                                                                                                                                                      If a rabbi said it, I would think they would know what they are talking
                                                                                                                                                      about better than me, a simple Southern Baptist. :)

                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                      anti caking agnts are not natural...#1. and #2 the
                                                                                                                                                      defintion oif kosher salt is pure salt no additives.
                                                                                                                                                      there are many salts marketed as kosher because of the
                                                                                                                                                      cryystaline structure, these one are not marketed as
                                                                                                                                                      true kosher, or kosher for passover. it has become a
                                                                                                                                                      descriptive term rather than a natural one. i have
                                                                                                                                                      done jewish catering and had a rabbi in the kitchen
                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10816 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                      While I don't have one now, I often have a brackish tank going as well. The
                                                                                                                                                      salt is on hand, so I use it rather than buying more salt to keep around the
                                                                                                                                                      house.

                                                                                                                                                      When writing my posts, I generally try to keep in mind that there are more
                                                                                                                                                      people reading them than myself and the person I am replying to, after all,
                                                                                                                                                      this is a public forum, and may add comments directed to the larger
                                                                                                                                                      audience, or phrase things differently for the larger audience than I would
                                                                                                                                                      had the exchange been happening privately.

                                                                                                                                                      One does assume that the larger audience is here to learn, and, therefore,
                                                                                                                                                      one should strive to write from the advantage of facts and references. Hence
                                                                                                                                                      the FWIW comment in my last post in this thread.

                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:56 AM
                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt

                                                                                                                                                      Steve, I NEVER SAID THAT TABLE SALT WASN'T SAFE TO USE! But as for
                                                                                                                                                      using marine salt on the occasion of using it for freshwater fish,
                                                                                                                                                      why go to the added expense to include the trace elements, if table
                                                                                                                                                      salt is just as safe (even if marine salt is more natural for them)?
                                                                                                                                                      Its not going to do any more for them. Ray
                                                                                                                                                      \
                                                                                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                      > Ray,
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > FWIW, I usually use a marine salt mix when adding salt. The point
                                                                                                                                                      is that
                                                                                                                                                      > the table salt taboo is merely a myth, and it can be safely used in
                                                                                                                                                      an
                                                                                                                                                      > aquatic environment.
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                      > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                      > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                      > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:44 AM
                                                                                                                                                      > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > I guess I'll have to be more specific from now on. I'm referring
                                                                                                                                                      > to "Diamond Crystal" brand Kosher salt, which has no mention of any
                                                                                                                                                      > other (anti-caking) ingredients -- and which will cake up badly in
                                                                                                                                                      > the presence of high humidity. I guess other brands such
                                                                                                                                                      > as "Mortons" may contain anti-caking agents, but I don't think of
                                                                                                                                                      > them, as Diamond Crystal seems to be the only one in this area
                                                                                                                                                      > packaged in a 3 lb box labeled as Kosher. While I do see Morton's
                                                                                                                                                      > and other brands, they are only found in the 1 lb box as "table
                                                                                                                                                      salt"
                                                                                                                                                      > (in this area). Steve, while it may be perfectly safe to use table
                                                                                                                                                      > salt (w/anti-caking ingredients and all), I feel; why add other
                                                                                                                                                      stuff
                                                                                                                                                      > to your aquarium (safe or not) if you don't have to? I used to use
                                                                                                                                                      > table salt too, way back when . . . , but switched to Diamond
                                                                                                                                                      Crystal
                                                                                                                                                      > for the above reason. We're all aware of the many additives (those
                                                                                                                                                      > unpronounceable things) that are found in many packaged foods for
                                                                                                                                                      > human consumption, as preservatives, colors, etc., which are
                                                                                                                                                      > supposedly safe, but why eat some of that crap if you don't need
                                                                                                                                                      to.
                                                                                                                                                      > That's just my way of thinking -- eat what you want, and add stuff
                                                                                                                                                      to
                                                                                                                                                      > your tank as you want; that's up to you.
                                                                                                                                                      Ray
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      \
                                                                                                                                                      > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@f...>
                                                                                                                                                      wrote:
                                                                                                                                                      > > Ray,
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > Actually, you will find anti-caking agents in many brands of
                                                                                                                                                      kosher
                                                                                                                                                      > salt as
                                                                                                                                                      > > well--you did mean anti-caking agents, didn't you?
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > There is absolutely no logical reason not to use table salt in an
                                                                                                                                                      > aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                      > > The anti-caking agents will not harm the fishes, nor will the
                                                                                                                                                      > iodine found
                                                                                                                                                      > > in table salt, especially if you are doing regular water changes
                                                                                                                                                      as
                                                                                                                                                      > well.
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                      > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                      > > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                      > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                      > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Table salt
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > No, not okay (because of caking agents -- & iodine), but go to
                                                                                                                                                      the
                                                                                                                                                      > > supermarket (for Kosher salt) instead of the lfs; its a lot
                                                                                                                                                      > cheaper.
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      Ray
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      \
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                      > > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                      > > > All I have is table salt to add. Is this OK or do I need to
                                                                                                                                                      wait
                                                                                                                                                      > > until
                                                                                                                                                      > > > I can get to LFS? A simple yes this is OK or No it's not will
                                                                                                                                                      > > suffice.
                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > > I've seen how some get about salt around here. =)
                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot
                                                                                                                                                      > Garage
                                                                                                                                                      > > > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > > There is also one for Little Rock
                                                                                                                                                      > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10817 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: testing and other stuff
                                                                                                                                                          No, pH testing is not that important.  You have over-complicated it. :)  I check mine about every 6 months.  If it were important (like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) I would check it ever 2-3 months.
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                      Yipes!  That is about the worst over-simplification of a subject I have ever seen.
                                                                                                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10818 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                      Valeen,

                                                                                                                                                      Depends on the type of filter, but a medium to do the mechanical filtration
                                                                                                                                                      (removes solid matter) and something to help with the biological filtration.
                                                                                                                                                      A sponge filter can do both.

                                                                                                                                                      Chemical filtration, what carbon is pushed for, can simply be handled by
                                                                                                                                                      regular water changes.

                                                                                                                                                      Now, do remember, there are instances where carbon (chemical) filtration is
                                                                                                                                                      indicated and should be done, but, otherwise, a well maintained tank has no
                                                                                                                                                      need of it.

                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//


                                                                                                                                                      ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:20 PM
                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter


                                                                                                                                                      what?!?! no carbon? this is new to me. what are you supposed to use in
                                                                                                                                                      filters if there's no carbon? i have eclipses, a minibow and a glass tank
                                                                                                                                                      that all have carbon filters and they work well.

                                                                                                                                                      Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                      Paul,

                                                                                                                                                      Most prepackaged for the filter carbon is not enough for either the
                                                                                                                                                      flow
                                                                                                                                                      rate nor the amount of water that will be passing through it. It
                                                                                                                                                      does not
                                                                                                                                                      matter whether they are the plastic cartridges used in conjunction
                                                                                                                                                      with
                                                                                                                                                      undergravel filters , or the polyester pads with carbon in the
                                                                                                                                                      interior
                                                                                                                                                      "pouch". Carbon that has out lived its useful life will start to
                                                                                                                                                      shed the
                                                                                                                                                      molecules you are picking up. As this is done, it is not a perfect
                                                                                                                                                      thing and
                                                                                                                                                      molecules can combine to make substances more toxic than those
                                                                                                                                                      originally
                                                                                                                                                      found in the water.

                                                                                                                                                      I stand by my statement that on should only use carbon as a
                                                                                                                                                      filtration agent
                                                                                                                                                      when it is indicated, such as to remove remaining medication from
                                                                                                                                                      the water
                                                                                                                                                      in a tank. Regular water changes will handle the substances that
                                                                                                                                                      carbon
                                                                                                                                                      removes to an adequate degree. If you want crystal clear water
                                                                                                                                                      (something
                                                                                                                                                      not often found in nature) then there are other means and methods to
                                                                                                                                                      achieve
                                                                                                                                                      this that do not carry the risks of carbon filtration.

                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:13 PM
                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter


                                                                                                                                                      it is dependant upon flow rate o water through it.
                                                                                                                                                      most cratridges are specifically for different models
                                                                                                                                                      of filter because they have the proper amount of
                                                                                                                                                      carbon for teh flow rate. i do not have exact numbers
                                                                                                                                                      in front of me, but i am sure they could be found.
                                                                                                                                                      there is no reason not to use carbon.
                                                                                                                                                      --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                      > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a
                                                                                                                                                      > regular basis does. You say
                                                                                                                                                      > thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances? Do
                                                                                                                                                      > you need a half cup of
                                                                                                                                                      > carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need one
                                                                                                                                                      > cup, or maybe more? What
                                                                                                                                                      > about variations in adsorption rates between
                                                                                                                                                      > batches?
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do not use
                                                                                                                                                      > carbon on a regular
                                                                                                                                                      > basis. If you want crystal clear water, use regular
                                                                                                                                                      > water changes and a
                                                                                                                                                      > diatom filter.
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                      > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                      > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                      > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:53 PM
                                                                                                                                                      > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > in verey day aquarium use, it is used to clarify the
                                                                                                                                                      > water and deodorize the tank. of course it should
                                                                                                                                                      > be
                                                                                                                                                      > replaced after absorbing meds and chemicals, but for
                                                                                                                                                      > odor and clarity use in a stable aquarium it is 30
                                                                                                                                                      > days
                                                                                                                                                      > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                      > > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > As I mentioned a bit earlier to Rachel, in another
                                                                                                                                                      > > thread, carbon should
                                                                                                                                                      > > only be used in specific instances where chemical
                                                                                                                                                      > > filtration may be
                                                                                                                                                      > > warranted. There is no real way to judge when the
                                                                                                                                                      > > efficacy of the carbon
                                                                                                                                                      > > filter drops to an unacceptable level. It depends
                                                                                                                                                      > on
                                                                                                                                                      > > the amount of carbon
                                                                                                                                                      > > being used along with the load of chemicals it is
                                                                                                                                                      > > being asked to remove. In
                                                                                                                                                      > > some cases, one day may be more than it takes,
                                                                                                                                                      > while
                                                                                                                                                      > > in others, the three
                                                                                                                                                      > > months you mention may well be within its limits.
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > Contrary to what Paul has stated, once the carbon
                                                                                                                                                      > > has been used up, i.e.
                                                                                                                                                      > > captured all the molecules it can, it has been
                                                                                                                                                      > shown
                                                                                                                                                      > > that it will release
                                                                                                                                                      > > these molecules, sometimes in a toxic combination
                                                                                                                                                      > > with other molecules, and
                                                                                                                                                      > > it will not serve as a biological filter.
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > With the light load you have in your tank, I'd
                                                                                                                                                      > > suggest removing the carbon
                                                                                                                                                      > > and replacing it with ceramic rings, or another
                                                                                                                                                      > > material that can serve as a
                                                                                                                                                      > > biological filter for your tank. Regular water
                                                                                                                                                      > > changes should suffice to
                                                                                                                                                      > > handle the removal of chemicals that may be
                                                                                                                                                      > harmful
                                                                                                                                                      > > to your fish.
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                      > > Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                      > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 12:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                      > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                      > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > I have a HOT Magnum canister filter which uses
                                                                                                                                                      > > carbon and a sponge sleeve in
                                                                                                                                                      > > the filter. Is that ok? The guy I got the tank
                                                                                                                                                      > and
                                                                                                                                                      > > stuff from told me to
                                                                                                                                                      > > change the carbon every 3 months, but that he
                                                                                                                                                      > hadn't
                                                                                                                                                      > > changed it recently. I
                                                                                                                                                      > > rinse the sponge sleeve monthly, when should I
                                                                                                                                                      > > change the carbon?
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > Angela
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > Rachel, Going by your description of whats
                                                                                                                                                      > > happening, I'm positive
                                                                                                                                                      > > that it has to be the new carbon canister that is
                                                                                                                                                      > > darkening the
                                                                                                                                                      > > water.
                                                                                                                                                      > > It seems like the new canister has a lot of
                                                                                                                                                      > > powdered carbon in it
                                                                                                                                                      > > probably coating the larger carbon pieces. Do
                                                                                                                                                      > not
                                                                                                                                                      > > use the other new
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > canister; it will just make things worse. Looks
                                                                                                                                                      > > like the dark water
                                                                                                                                                      > > is
                                                                                                                                                      > > a result of suspended carbon particles, some of
                                                                                                                                                      > > which may settle out
                                                                                                                                                      > > in
                                                                                                                                                      > > time, but will only get stirred up again when you
                                                                                                                                                      > > change water. You
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > don't really need these carbon canisters,
                                                                                                                                                      > > especially if you are
                                                                                                                                                      > > doing
                                                                                                                                                      > > water changes. While Pat may be correct, I've
                                                                                                                                                      > > always been under the
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > impression that activated carbon is good for
                                                                                                                                                      > about
                                                                                                                                                      > > 30 days or so.
                                                                                                                                                      > > As
                                                                                                                                                      > > some of these canisters can be opened, if you
                                                                                                                                                      > still
                                                                                                                                                      > > want the carbon
                                                                                                                                                      > > filtration, try getting a small box of carbon
                                                                                                                                                      > from
                                                                                                                                                      > > your lfs and
                                                                                                                                                      > > briefly
                                                                                                                                                      > > but thoroughly rinse a small portion to load into
                                                                                                                                                      > > your canister, if
                                                                                                                                                      > > possible. To get rid of the dark water, I
                                                                                                                                                      > believe
                                                                                                                                                      > > you'll have to
                                                                                                                                                      > > make
                                                                                                                                                      > > several water changes. Perhaps a fine-pore
                                                                                                                                                      > sponge
                                                                                                                                                      > > filter may help
                                                                                                                                                      > > also. Ray
                                                                                                                                                      > > \
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel"
                                                                                                                                                      > > <star9crystal@y...>
                                                                                                                                                      > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                      > > > so what do i do about the carbon filter. im
                                                                                                                                                      > kind
                                                                                                                                                      > > of wary of
                                                                                                                                                      > > keeping
                                                                                                                                                      > > my
                                                                                                                                                      > > > fish in there. should i try the other filter?
                                                                                                                                                      > (it
                                                                                                                                                      > > was a 2 pack)
                                                                                                                                                      > > > if so how should i treat the filter before i
                                                                                                                                                      > put
                                                                                                                                                      > > it in?
                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10819 From: Rachel Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: pleco
                                                                                                                                                      i checked out that site and id'd my pleco. so i had an idea and i
                                                                                                                                                      wanted to inquire to you lovely people about it. right now hes cute
                                                                                                                                                      small and i need to move him to a bigger tank, would it be possible
                                                                                                                                                      to keep him in that one for a while, get it clean some, and when he
                                                                                                                                                      gets bigger possibly keep him in the new goldfish tank. that would
                                                                                                                                                      be in about 3 months. unfortunantly my little sick black moore died,
                                                                                                                                                      but i removed the carbon off the filter and the waters bright and
                                                                                                                                                      clear in the 2 gal setup. i'm sure that if it would be plausible to
                                                                                                                                                      add the pleco (i dont know if he would like the colder temp, as i do
                                                                                                                                                      not think heating is necessary for goldfish tanks) so i was
                                                                                                                                                      pondering keeping the pleco in the goldfish tank which would be
                                                                                                                                                      either 10, 20, or 30 gallons (depending on my ability to *convince*
                                                                                                                                                      my parents. also was wondering if my goldfish would like a companion
                                                                                                                                                      goldfish? ever? and does anybody have any ideas on decorating such
                                                                                                                                                      aquarium? i know plecos like driftwood (ive read up a tad since my
                                                                                                                                                      last post) and i should have fine sand like objects for the
                                                                                                                                                      goldfish... are they compadable? just for a while? until i get my
                                                                                                                                                      own place not on campus.
                                                                                                                                                      also, my parents actually live 2 miles from campus, so i was
                                                                                                                                                      planning on going home once a week (which i do now anyway to handle
                                                                                                                                                      their computer problems, and to check on their pets, not food and
                                                                                                                                                      water but general welfare and physical health, ive had to bring them
                                                                                                                                                      to the vet numerous times, my parents are very busy people) and i
                                                                                                                                                      was planning on getting a good strong powerfilter and doing water
                                                                                                                                                      changes once a week when i check up on them.

                                                                                                                                                      oh and also, my birthdays tomorrow!!! i'll be 19.

                                                                                                                                                      oh and i didnt know that the gulf of mexico was on the west coast?
                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10820 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Dead Tank?
                                                                                                                                                      >and I let it run for a few days.
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      Normally I would let it sit for longer than a few days ie two weeks. But the guppies i use are native ones and probably a bit hardier than the 'inbreed' long tailed guppies.
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      The others normally clean the tank with Bleach then wash it well out, i know some bactera can survive in droughts hence i don't believe in the suns 'all cleaning rays'.
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      If the filter has a sufficent water flow and you do nightly water changes (10 to 20%) i think you should be able to put ya guppies in after a couple of days... but thats a lot of work.
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      =Nick
                                                                                                                                                      I'm only a beginner with 5 months experience so... i must applogise in advance for any mistakes above.
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                      From: Nan
                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:13 PM
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead Tank?

                                                                                                                                                      Ok, here is my situation, and any feed back will be appreciated.
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      Four about 5 months I had a greenwater 10 gallon tank set up for growing out my betta fry.  It worked lovely until I added the snail...she multiplied...to make a long story short, tank of fry died after an overfeeding and I set out to reset it and get it back to greenwater state for my upcomeing fry.  I cleaned the tank with warm water since the crash occurred to ....well, waste overload!  I cleaned the sponge filter as well with dechlorinated water.
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      Instead of leaving it bare bottomed, I decided to add gravel, and I bought a bag of black with different colored stones Spectra Stone gravel from my LFS.  I set it up with a sponge filter, the stones after carefully rinseing them until no more dust came off, some plants, and it had a hood on the top.  I added nothing except the gravel and a different type of sponge filter.  I added water from my 35 gallon to help somewhat cycle it (from the bottom of the 35 with a very little bit of debris from there), and I let it run for a few days.  I did use a dechlorinator (TLC, but I have since switched back to my  lovely stress coat!) and a bit of biological starter.   After a few days of the clean clear looking water, I added fish.  A couple of guppys.
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      Next morning, guppys are dead.  So that evening after work I set out to reset this tank, thinking I didn't rinse everything, or clean everything well enough and did it again.  I let it run for a week this time and added fish.....guppys died overnight.
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      I then got ticked off and put the tank and gravel outside in the rain and sun and bought a new set up which is working lovely, however, I really want to figure out what the heck is wrong with my tank after months of it being fine.  So here are my theories:
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      1.  I have consistently not cleaned the tank, gravel, or filters well enough.
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      2.  Bad bio starter!
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      3. The gravel is tainted somehow and it isn't the tank afterall, just the gravel.
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      4.  I am wrong on all accounts and one of you will find the really simple answer...*chuckle*
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      So, like I said any and all input is greatly appreciated.  I thank you in advance for your help. Have a lovely day!
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      ~nan and crew~

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                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10821 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: fish
                                                                                                                                                      To anon,

                                                                                                                                                      According to a Feng-Shui book i read a fishtank on the north side of your
                                                                                                                                                      house is supposed to increase the familys welth but should NEVER be put in a
                                                                                                                                                      bedroom.
                                                                                                                                                      =Nick


                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                      From: "fsh_tanks" <fsh_tanks@...>
                                                                                                                                                      To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 5:45 AM
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] fish


                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > I am loking for info for my website
                                                                                                                                                      > info on how tranquil fish are for people and how relaxing they are and
                                                                                                                                                      > how they can help people with there health.
                                                                                                                                                      > how well they do in hospitals
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > if anyone can help me with this would be greatfull
                                                                                                                                                      > thank you or yous
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > have a great day
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                      > .
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                                                                                                                                                      > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                      > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                      > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10822 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Another pH queery
                                                                                                                                                      Me too, any one know of a natural pH down product. There are plenty of pH
                                                                                                                                                      up natrual products.

                                                                                                                                                      I know plants are supposed to drop the pH and if you add a carbon dioxide
                                                                                                                                                      thingy to a tank its also supposed to do it.



                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                      From: "eggybumstu" <eggybumstu@...>
                                                                                                                                                      To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 5:41 PM
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Another pH queery


                                                                                                                                                      > Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > In my tank atwork the pH level has is at 8.0 and the tap water is at
                                                                                                                                                      > 7.8. This to me seems a little high and I'm sure its the reason that
                                                                                                                                                      > there have been a few fatalities of newly introduced fish of late. I
                                                                                                                                                      > am aware of the pH down product but wondered if anyone kn ows of any
                                                                                                                                                      > more natural solution/additive. The tank is a 3foot community
                                                                                                                                                      > tropical with bogwood and has nothing in it that I would think to
                                                                                                                                                      > cause these conditions.
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > Cheers for any advice Stu :D
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                      > .
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                                                                                                                                                      > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                      > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                      > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10823 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Green tiger barb doing nose stands
                                                                                                                                                      My tiger barbs did that for a while, my LFS said to drop the ph to either
                                                                                                                                                      6.8 or 7 and feed them less food. It also had a fat stomuck.
                                                                                                                                                      =Nick


                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                      From: "A J Myers" <SI.HATCH3@...>
                                                                                                                                                      To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 3:39 AM
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Green tiger barb doing nose stands


                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > Just noticed that my green tiger barb is doing nose stands alot.
                                                                                                                                                      > Sometimes it just rolls over and around the tank in the current, then
                                                                                                                                                      > rights himself for a little while. Water tests fine and he still eats
                                                                                                                                                      > when he sees food, then he goes all retarded for a few seconds. Any
                                                                                                                                                      > thoughts?
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > *A J*
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10824 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Sealing wood and rocks
                                                                                                                                                      One of my mates throws wood in his swimming pool (pool clorine) for a couple
                                                                                                                                                      of weeks then washes it off and puts it in his tank. Dosn't have a problem
                                                                                                                                                      with tannins or funny colored water.
                                                                                                                                                      =Nick

                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                      From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                      To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:58 AM
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sealing wood and rocks


                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > i would not do that if i were you... i have no data to
                                                                                                                                                      > say anything, but common sense would say not to do
                                                                                                                                                      > that. urethane will probably break down in water over
                                                                                                                                                      > time. it makes things water resistant, but not water
                                                                                                                                                      > proof. soak the wood in buckets until it stops
                                                                                                                                                      > coloring the water, and you should be fine. about 2
                                                                                                                                                      > weeks. as for rocks, if they do not come from fresh
                                                                                                                                                      > water don't put em there. my 5 cents.
                                                                                                                                                      > --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                                                                      >> Hello All,
                                                                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                                                                      >> I have a question about sealing wood and rocks that
                                                                                                                                                      >> will go into my
                                                                                                                                                      >> new tank. I got some nice wood from my LFS and have
                                                                                                                                                      >> some good looking
                                                                                                                                                      >> rocks that may have a chemical affect on the water.
                                                                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                                                                      >> I've read and my LFS told me that the wood will
                                                                                                                                                      >> lower the pH of the
                                                                                                                                                      >> tank. It could also discolor the water a bit too.
                                                                                                                                                      >> I've also read that
                                                                                                                                                      >> some people seal the wood using urethane varnish.
                                                                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                                                                      >> My question is - can I seal the wood and rocks
                                                                                                                                                      >> without affecting the
                                                                                                                                                      >> tank? Is urethane the best thing to use, is there
                                                                                                                                                      >> something else that
                                                                                                                                                      >> would be better?
                                                                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                                                                      >> Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                                                                      >> Eric
                                                                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10825 From: Anne Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Natural Condition Fish Tanks/Things change? or do they?/Dear We
                                                                                                                                                      harry wrote"When fish keeping first started people
                                                                                                                                                      were making their own tanks and heating them with
                                                                                                                                                      candles. Somehow the hobby survived. I was told that
                                                                                                                                                      just because I did it doesn't mean I should. I'm
                                                                                                                                                      sorry, I lost my rule book years ago. "

                                                                                                                                                      I completely agree with you Harry. All the internet
                                                                                                                                                      information is terrific, but all to often very
                                                                                                                                                      conflicting.One says such and such is "a community
                                                                                                                                                      fish, another says it's aggressive, one claims the
                                                                                                                                                      fish needs a min.20gal. another says 55.Get only 1 of
                                                                                                                                                      that kind, get no less then 3. Strong current, no
                                                                                                                                                      current." You need a degree in chemistry for some of
                                                                                                                                                      the water calculations. It stopped being enjoyable
                                                                                                                                                      until I decided to start using fewer opinions and more
                                                                                                                                                      common sense. It's suppose to be a hobby, somewhere
                                                                                                                                                      along the line, I almost forgot that.
                                                                                                                                                      Thanks
                                                                                                                                                      Anne

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                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 10826 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Strange bugs!
                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                        'they are omnivorous and will eat smaller shrimp, algae, insects such as Mosquito larvae and fish food.'
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 6:48 AM
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Strange bugs!

                                                                                                                                                        Aren't these the same thing as the brine shrimp? Also what do they feed them?
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        Date: 04/18/05 16:33:50
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Strange bugs!
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        http://www.billabongbugs.com/gallery.htm


                                                                                                                                                        Whilst at the Pet Expo on the weekend i saw these bug things, appartently
                                                                                                                                                        they will get eaten if put in a community aqurium.

                                                                                                                                                        Funny things



                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10827 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: testing and other stuff
                                                                                                                                                        So long as the Nitrites and Nitrates are low cause a strong pH makes a difference to the toxicity of the water right.
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        PS havn't bothered testing my tank for over two months so guess wonce the routine is right theres no point.
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        =Nick
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 3:02 AM
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] testing and other stuff

                                                                                                                                                        pH testing is not really that important. 
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                        Please forgive my ignorance on this but… if my fish have been doing ok without ph testing, and filters make that ok., then why do you need to test at all. Since I am moving mine from a 2o long to a 90 is it best to watch the numbers! Should a take the ph level of the tank, try and get the new one to that number and adjust as needed.  Emily
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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10828 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: why pH test kits should require licenses
                                                                                                                                                        WARNING:  This is not aimed at anybody, don't get upset, don't be offended, and don't change your opinion based on my own.  This is just my opinion, and it is long.  One day I will have to write a book for people to argue over.  Kind of a "history of aquarium keeping and why it was done wrong before I told everybody how to do it right".
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        SECOND WARNING:  If you don't like my long posts where I say a bunch of nonsense and it means very little to you, just skip it now.
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                            I don't get this junk about pH and toxicity.  What are you going to do about it?  Change the pH while the nitrogen levels are high?  That would be devastating to the tank.  I say test your pH at most 3 times a year just to see what it looks like.  People who test pH often should only be those who keep fish that are sensitive to pH, like sw fish, angels, and discus.  The average fish keeper could go without every buying a pH kit and be better off for it.  People get the things and think their water should be at exactly 7, and if it is higher than 7.5 they think it is too high, they start using the supplied chemicals with no idea of how they work.  pH is not that important in my opinion.  Mostly that is because fish are not raised in their native waters anymore, and I doubt most people could ever find out what the pH in their breeding tanks were.  The best thing to do is acclimate the fish to your water over 30 minutes when you get them, and then forget pH completely.
                                                                                                                                                            Now there is come concern about tap water changing pH over time, or the tank changing over time.  Again I ask, What are you going to do about it?  If you have a block of lime stone or something in there making it go way up you have a problem that is easy to fix, take the rock out!  If you have driftwood that lowers it too much, that is a little more difficult.  Just get a large plastic container at the local farm supply store and put some peat in the bottom, then drain water from that and refill it to use in water changes.  I have to say, I change water ever 1-2 weeks and my pH is constant in all tanks, and does not deviate from the pH of the tap by more than .3.  If I change as much as  1/3 of my water, at most I will change the tank pH by .1, which is not going to hurt much.  If tank pH is more than .5 different from the tap water, you just aren't doing your water changes often enough, in my opinion.
                                                                                                                                                            I say quit over thinking this and get back to what this is.  It is no hobby.  Hobbies are building tanks, or even setting them up.  After that, fishkeeping is nothing like a hobby.  It is a way of life.  It is like keeping a dog.  You may worry about how much nutrition is in its food, but you aren't going to test the pH of the water in its dog bowl and compare it to the pH of what comes out of the dog food can (or the dog).  Enjoy the fish, keep the nitrates low, and remember to talk loudly so they will hear you through the glass! :)
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10829 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: why pH test kits should require licenses

                                                                                                                                                        I used to check my PH once or twice a year but now the frequency has increased to once a month… reason: CO2 Tests.

                                                                                                                                                        If it were not for he CO2 tests in my pressurized CO2 tank system, I would probably never bother about PH. Every bit of post by Patrick is correct. We all try to over complicate things and make things difficult for ourselves to try and give a perfect environment to the fish which really does not remain perfect for a very long time and they this fluctuation starts causing problems.

                                                                                                                                                        Last time I tested for Nitrates was last month, and before that bout 6 months ago when I moved in to my new house. I test for ammonia and Nitrites only when I clean my filter (once in 6 months) or there is something wrong. Rest, I rely on instincts and how the fish behave to find out if there is anything wrong.

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                                                                                                        Sent: 29 April 2005 06:25
                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] why pH test kits should require licenses

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        WARNING:  This is not aimed at anybody, don't get upset, don't be offended, and don't change your opinion based on my own.  This is just my opinion, and it is long.  One day I will have to write a book for people to argue over.  Kind of a "history of aquarium keeping and why it was done wrong before I told everybody how to do it right".

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        SECOND WARNING:  If you don't like my long posts where I say a bunch of nonsense and it means very little to you, just skip it now.

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                            I don't get this junk about pH and toxicity.  What are you going to do about it?  Change the pH while the nitrogen levels are high?  That would be devastating to the tank.  I say test your pH at most 3 times a year just to see what it looks like.  People who test pH often should only be those who keep fish that are sensitive to pH, like sw fish, angels, and discus.  The average fish keeper could go without every buying a pH kit and be better off for it.  People get the things and think their water should be at exactly 7, and if it is higher than 7.5 they think it is too high, they start using the supplied chemicals with no idea of how they work.  pH is not that important in my opinion.  Mostly that is because fish are not raised in their native waters anymore, and I doubt most people could ever find out what the pH in their breeding tanks were.  The best thing to do is acclimate the fish to your water over 30 minutes when you get them, and then forget pH completely.

                                                                                                                                                            Now there is come concern about tap water changing pH over time, or the tank changing over time.  Again I ask, What are you going to do about it?  If you have a block of lime stone or something in there making it go way up you have a problem that is easy to fix, take the rock out!  If you have driftwood that lowers it too much, that is a little more difficult.  Just get a large plastic container at the local farm supply store and put some peat in the bottom, then drain water from that and refill it to use in water changes.  I have to say, I change water ever 1-2 weeks and my pH is constant in all tanks, and does not deviate from the pH of the tap by more than .3.  If I change as much as  1/3 of my water, at most I will change the tank pH by .1, which is not going to hurt much.  If tank pH is more than .5 different from the tap water, you just aren't doing your water changes often enough, in my opinion.

                                                                                                                                                            I say quit over thinking this and get back to what this is.  It is no hobby.  Hobbies are building tanks, or even setting them up.  After that, fishkeeping is nothing like a hobby.  It is a way of life.  It is like keeping a dog.  You may worry about how much nutrition is in its food, but you aren't going to test the pH of the water in its dog bowl and compare it to the pH of what comes out of the dog food can (or the dog).  Enjoy the fish, keep the nitrates low, and remember to talk loudly so they will hear you through the glass! :)

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                         

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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10830 From: paul helms Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        exactly valeen, steve wants to revamp the entire fish
                                                                                                                                                        industry to fit his ideals
                                                                                                                                                        --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                        > what?!?! no carbon? this is new to me. what are you
                                                                                                                                                        > supposed to use in filters if there's no carbon? i
                                                                                                                                                        > have eclipses, a minibow and a glass tank that all
                                                                                                                                                        > have carbon filters and they work well.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:Paul,
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Most prepackaged for the filter carbon is not enough
                                                                                                                                                        > for either the flow
                                                                                                                                                        > rate nor the amount of water that will be passing
                                                                                                                                                        > through it. It does not
                                                                                                                                                        > matter whether they are the plastic cartridges used
                                                                                                                                                        > in conjunction with
                                                                                                                                                        > undergravel filters , or the polyester pads with
                                                                                                                                                        > carbon in the interior
                                                                                                                                                        > "pouch". Carbon that has out lived its useful life
                                                                                                                                                        > will start to shed the
                                                                                                                                                        > molecules you are picking up. As this is done, it is
                                                                                                                                                        > not a perfect thing and
                                                                                                                                                        > molecules can combine to make substances more toxic
                                                                                                                                                        > than those originally
                                                                                                                                                        > found in the water.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > I stand by my statement that on should only use
                                                                                                                                                        > carbon as a filtration agent
                                                                                                                                                        > when it is indicated, such as to remove remaining
                                                                                                                                                        > medication from the water
                                                                                                                                                        > in a tank. Regular water changes will handle the
                                                                                                                                                        > substances that carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > removes to an adequate degree. If you want crystal
                                                                                                                                                        > clear water (something
                                                                                                                                                        > not often found in nature) then there are other
                                                                                                                                                        > means and methods to achieve
                                                                                                                                                        > this that do not carry the risks of carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > filtration.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:13 PM
                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > it is dependant upon flow rate o water through it.
                                                                                                                                                        > most cratridges are specifically for different
                                                                                                                                                        > models
                                                                                                                                                        > of filter because they have the proper amount of
                                                                                                                                                        > carbon for teh flow rate. i do not have exact
                                                                                                                                                        > numbers
                                                                                                                                                        > in front of me, but i am sure they could be found.
                                                                                                                                                        > there is no reason not to use carbon.
                                                                                                                                                        > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a
                                                                                                                                                        > > regular basis does. You say
                                                                                                                                                        > > thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances? Do
                                                                                                                                                        > > you need a half cup of
                                                                                                                                                        > > carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need one
                                                                                                                                                        > > cup, or maybe more? What
                                                                                                                                                        > > about variations in adsorption rates between
                                                                                                                                                        > > batches?
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do not
                                                                                                                                                        > use
                                                                                                                                                        > > carbon on a regular
                                                                                                                                                        > > basis. If you want crystal clear water, use
                                                                                                                                                        > regular
                                                                                                                                                        > > water changes and a
                                                                                                                                                        > > diatom filter.
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                        > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        > > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                        > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:53 PM
                                                                                                                                                        > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > in verey day aquarium use, it is used to clarify
                                                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                                                        > > water and deodorize the tank. of course it should
                                                                                                                                                        > > be
                                                                                                                                                        > > replaced after absorbing meds and chemicals, but
                                                                                                                                                        > for
                                                                                                                                                        > > odor and clarity use in a stable aquarium it is 30
                                                                                                                                                        > > days
                                                                                                                                                        > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > As I mentioned a bit earlier to Rachel, in
                                                                                                                                                        > another
                                                                                                                                                        > > > thread, carbon should
                                                                                                                                                        > > > only be used in specific instances where
                                                                                                                                                        > chemical
                                                                                                                                                        > > > filtration may be
                                                                                                                                                        > > > warranted. There is no real way to judge when
                                                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                                                        > > > efficacy of the carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > filter drops to an unacceptable level. It
                                                                                                                                                        > depends
                                                                                                                                                        > > on
                                                                                                                                                        > > > the amount of carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > being used along with the load of chemicals it
                                                                                                                                                        > is
                                                                                                                                                        > > > being asked to remove. In
                                                                                                                                                        > > > some cases, one day may be more than it takes,
                                                                                                                                                        > > while
                                                                                                                                                        > > > in others, the three
                                                                                                                                                        > > > months you mention may well be within its
                                                                                                                                                        > limits.
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Contrary to what Paul has stated, once the
                                                                                                                                                        > carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > has been used up, i.e.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > captured all the molecules it can, it has been
                                                                                                                                                        > > shown
                                                                                                                                                        > > > that it will release
                                                                                                                                                        > > > these molecules, sometimes in a toxic
                                                                                                                                                        > combination
                                                                                                                                                        > > > with other molecules, and
                                                                                                                                                        > > > it will not serve as a biological filter.
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > With the light load you have in your tank, I'd
                                                                                                                                                        > > > suggest removing the carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > and replacing it with ceramic rings, or another
                                                                                                                                                        > > > material that can serve as a
                                                                                                                                                        > > > biological filter for your tank. Regular water
                                                                                                                                                        > > > changes should suffice to
                                                                                                                                                        > > > handle the removal of chemicals that may be
                                                                                                                                                        > > harmful
                                                                                                                                                        > > > to your fish.
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 12:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                        > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > I have a HOT Magnum canister filter which uses
                                                                                                                                                        > > > carbon and a sponge sleeve in
                                                                                                                                                        > > > the filter. Is that ok? The guy I got the tank
                                                                                                                                                        > > and
                                                                                                                                                        > > > stuff from told me to
                                                                                                                                                        > > > change the carbon every 3 months, but that he
                                                                                                                                                        > > hadn't
                                                                                                                                                        > > > changed it recently. I
                                                                                                                                                        > > > rinse the sponge sleeve monthly, when should I
                                                                                                                                                        > > > change the carbon?
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Angela
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > -------------- Original message
                                                                                                                                                        > --------------
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Rachel, Going by your description of
                                                                                                                                                        > whats
                                                                                                                                                        > > > happening, I'm positive
                                                                                                                                                        > > > that it has to be the new carbon canister
                                                                                                                                                        > that is
                                                                                                                                                        > > > darkening the
                                                                                                                                                        > > > water.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > It seems like the new canister has a lot
                                                                                                                                                        > of
                                                                                                                                                        > > > powdered carbon in it
                                                                                                                                                        > > > probably coating the larger carbon pieces.
                                                                                                                                                        > Do
                                                                                                                                                        > > not
                                                                                                                                                        > > > use the other new
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > canister; it will just make things worse.
                                                                                                                                                        > Looks
                                                                                                                                                        > > > like the dark water
                                                                                                                                                        > > > is
                                                                                                                                                        > > > a result of suspended carbon particles,
                                                                                                                                                        > some of
                                                                                                                                                        > > > which may settle out
                                                                                                                                                        > > > in
                                                                                                                                                        > > > time, but will only get stirred up again
                                                                                                                                                        > when you
                                                                                                                                                        > > > change water. You
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > don't really need these carbon canisters,
                                                                                                                                                        > > > especially if you are
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        === message truncated ===


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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10831 From: paul helms Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Another pH queery
                                                                                                                                                        ex-freaking-actly!
                                                                                                                                                        --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                                        <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > Which can be removed with carbon...
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                        > peat is used to soften the water, but it releases a
                                                                                                                                                        > yellw tinit into the water

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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10832 From: paul helms Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: testing and other stuff
                                                                                                                                                        no, justtake plenty of time acclimationg the fish to
                                                                                                                                                        the new tank...1-2 hours.
                                                                                                                                                        --- kb1dva <vze3pd7a@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > Please forgive my ignorance on this but. if my fish
                                                                                                                                                        > have been doing ok
                                                                                                                                                        > without ph testing, and filters make that ok., then
                                                                                                                                                        > why do you need to test
                                                                                                                                                        > at all. Since I am moving mine from a 2o long to a
                                                                                                                                                        > 90 is it best to watch
                                                                                                                                                        > the numbers! Should a take the ph level of the tank,
                                                                                                                                                        > try and get the new one
                                                                                                                                                        > to that number and adjust as needed. Emily
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >

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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10833 From: traceyhanson Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Swordtail problem
                                                                                                                                                        Hi, I dont ususally post much on this board - just tend to lurk
                                                                                                                                                        around in the background and usually I am lucky enough that someone
                                                                                                                                                        else has already asked the question previously.

                                                                                                                                                        However, I havent found the answer to this problem. I have an
                                                                                                                                                        orange swordtail, that is about 12 months old. For about the last 6
                                                                                                                                                        months it has looked 'fat' (basically looked pregnant which it is
                                                                                                                                                        definately not), but over the last month this fatness has turned
                                                                                                                                                        more into a swelling on one side of the fish, and the whole spine of
                                                                                                                                                        the fish now has a curve to it. At first I thought I was imagining
                                                                                                                                                        it, but now it holds its body permanently in a C shape. It still
                                                                                                                                                        seems to be feeding ok, and no other fish seem to be bothering it.
                                                                                                                                                        The curve seems to be getting worse week by week, and I am not sure
                                                                                                                                                        if there is anything I should/could be doing to help the fish? Or
                                                                                                                                                        is there something I have done wrong to cause this? No other fish
                                                                                                                                                        in the tank are unhealthy, or showing any of the same symptoms.

                                                                                                                                                        The local fish store recommended that I 'dispose' of it, but while
                                                                                                                                                        it seems happy and otherwise healthy I am reluctant to do this.
                                                                                                                                                        Thanks for your help.
                                                                                                                                                        Tracey
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10834 From: daniel_roachus Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: fish
                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas Munro" <nmunro@q...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > To anon,
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > According to a Feng-Shui book i read a fishtank on the north side of
                                                                                                                                                        your
                                                                                                                                                        > house is supposed to increase the familys welth but should NEVER be
                                                                                                                                                        put in a
                                                                                                                                                        > bedroom.
                                                                                                                                                        > =Nick
                                                                                                                                                        >

                                                                                                                                                        I'm thinking of becoming a feng shui consultant - for a fee of around
                                                                                                                                                        500 pounds, I will visit your house, remove and dispose of all that
                                                                                                                                                        cluttersome furniture, move your sofa so it blocks the doorway, and
                                                                                                                                                        tell you you should move a few windows and doorways around...

                                                                                                                                                        I'll do foreign visits too - you pay for transport and accomodation in
                                                                                                                                                        at least a four star hotel! I'll need about a week to ensure that all
                                                                                                                                                        the good energy in your home is released.

                                                                                                                                                        Daniel.
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10835 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Another pH queery
                                                                                                                                                        Kelly, That's exactly what happens. While the main purpose of using
                                                                                                                                                        peat in a Discus tank is actually to soften the water, in doing so it
                                                                                                                                                        also lowers the buffering capacity of the water, which then usually
                                                                                                                                                        has the effect of the pH dropping. So, yes, this is one way to
                                                                                                                                                        (inadvertantly) keep the pH low, but of course with it you will have
                                                                                                                                                        soft water. Good for many South American and West African fish as
                                                                                                                                                        well as many from the Indonesia area. Ray
                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, TankGurl <fishgoddess@g...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > Peat is often used in Discus tanks to keep the PH low. I believe you
                                                                                                                                                        > can buy loose/bagged peat and mix it in with your filtration.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Kelly
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > On 4/28/05, eggybumstu <eggybumstu@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > > Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > In my tank atwork the pH level has is at 8.0 and the tap water is
                                                                                                                                                        at
                                                                                                                                                        > > 7.8. This to me seems a little high and I'm sure its the reason
                                                                                                                                                        that
                                                                                                                                                        > > there have been a few fatalities of newly introduced fish of
                                                                                                                                                        late. I
                                                                                                                                                        > > am aware of the pH down product but wondered if anyone kn ows of
                                                                                                                                                        any
                                                                                                                                                        > > more natural solution/additive. The tank is a 3foot community
                                                                                                                                                        > > tropical with bogwood and has nothing in it that I would think to
                                                                                                                                                        > > cause these conditions.
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > Cheers for any advice Stu :D
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                        thanks
                                                                                                                                                        > > .
                                                                                                                                                        > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                        important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                        message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                        subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > --
                                                                                                                                                        > 65g Malawi
                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?fish_gurl
                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=7176
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > 135g Frontosa
                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.picturetrail.com/tankgurl
                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=8011
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10836 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Dead Tank?
                                                                                                                                                        Nan, Did not realize these were your guppies, which should then not
                                                                                                                                                        have been a problem unless you were doing too much inbreeding with
                                                                                                                                                        them, but then this same problem would have shown up in your larger
                                                                                                                                                        (35 gallon) tank if you have the same type guppies in there. Could
                                                                                                                                                        be any one of (or a combination of) any of the first three
                                                                                                                                                        possibilities you've described. I think the best way to procede is
                                                                                                                                                        through the process of elimination. I would like to point out that
                                                                                                                                                        putting the tank outside in the rain and sun is not going to do
                                                                                                                                                        anything, especially if there is a latent disease clinging to the
                                                                                                                                                        inside surfaces or if any part of the tank was re-sealed with the
                                                                                                                                                        wrong type of sealant. First thing to do is fill the tank to the
                                                                                                                                                        brim, adding 1/4 to 1/2 cup of Clorox and let it sit overnight, after
                                                                                                                                                        which time drain and rinse out THOROUGHLY. Now set the bare tank up
                                                                                                                                                        and fill with water from the 35 (all 10 gallons). This will
                                                                                                                                                        eliminate any possibility that the problem is in newly drawn water.
                                                                                                                                                        Introduce fish (with an airstone in tank if you prefer -- but no
                                                                                                                                                        filter) and see what happens. If they die its obviously something
                                                                                                                                                        wrong with the tank itself, like the wrong sealant. If all goes
                                                                                                                                                        okay, add the Spectra Stone gravel, after soaking it in a similar
                                                                                                                                                        Colorox solution and rinsing it WELL, or boiling it. If the fish
                                                                                                                                                        die, you know there's something toxic with the gravel. If all is
                                                                                                                                                        okay, but you still don't know what went wrong last time (and you
                                                                                                                                                        definitely want to try to find out), hold out some of the gravel,
                                                                                                                                                        without giving it the Clorox soak (or boiling it), and add that to
                                                                                                                                                        the tank. If the fish die now, there had to be some disease in the
                                                                                                                                                        gravel. If all's well with the fish after the tank - gravel
                                                                                                                                                        combination, add the sponge filter and see what happens. It may be
                                                                                                                                                        toxic (remote possibility) or it may have a disease hiding in it.
                                                                                                                                                        You could either put it in as is, or you could boil it first (the
                                                                                                                                                        Clorox route is not too kind to this material). There's really
                                                                                                                                                        nothing else to suspect, unless it was the new di-chlorinator (TLC)
                                                                                                                                                        or biological starter. I doubt if it was the stress coat, but I'm
                                                                                                                                                        looking for anything. These steps have got to solve the problem one
                                                                                                                                                        way or the other. One more thing -- there are some brands of airline
                                                                                                                                                        tubing out there known to give off toxins (when new)! Ray
                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > Well, Ray, I would have thought that as well, except these are my
                                                                                                                                                        own guppy fry from my brief stint at breeding guppys. They were all
                                                                                                                                                        healthy and I have had them for over 6 months, and I did try a couple
                                                                                                                                                        of goldfish in there once as well......they didn't last long. I
                                                                                                                                                        know it is something in the tank, but I can't figure out what.
                                                                                                                                                        Stumped still, but thanks for the effort.
                                                                                                                                                        > ~nan~
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > Yeo, Wrong on all accounts (#4)!, unless you know where these
                                                                                                                                                        > guppies are coming from (from a reliable source?). It is becoming
                                                                                                                                                        > increasingly well known unfortunately, that the guppies brought in
                                                                                                                                                        > from the Far East just do not hold up . . . Ray
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > > Ok, here is my situation, and any feed back will be appreciated.
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > Four about 5 months I had a greenwater 10 gallon tank set up for
                                                                                                                                                        > growing out my betta fry. It worked lovely until I added the
                                                                                                                                                        > snail...she multiplied...to make a long story short, tank of fry
                                                                                                                                                        died
                                                                                                                                                        > after an overfeeding and I set out to reset it and get it back to
                                                                                                                                                        > greenwater state for my upcomeing fry. I cleaned the tank with
                                                                                                                                                        warm
                                                                                                                                                        > water since the crash occurred to ....well, waste overload! I
                                                                                                                                                        > cleaned the sponge filter as well with dechlorinated water.
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > Instead of leaving it bare bottomed, I decided to add gravel, and
                                                                                                                                                        I
                                                                                                                                                        > bought a bag of black with different colored stones Spectra Stone
                                                                                                                                                        > gravel from my LFS. I set it up with a sponge filter, the stones
                                                                                                                                                        > after carefully rinseing them until no more dust came off, some
                                                                                                                                                        > plants, and it had a hood on the top. I added nothing except the
                                                                                                                                                        > gravel and a different type of sponge filter. I added water from
                                                                                                                                                        my
                                                                                                                                                        > 35 gallon to help somewhat cycle it (from the bottom of the 35 with
                                                                                                                                                        a
                                                                                                                                                        > very little bit of debris from there), and I let it run for a few
                                                                                                                                                        > days. I did use a dechlorinator (TLC, but I have since switched
                                                                                                                                                        back
                                                                                                                                                        > to my lovely stress coat!) and a bit of biological starter.
                                                                                                                                                        After
                                                                                                                                                        > a few days of the clean clear looking water, I added fish. A
                                                                                                                                                        couple
                                                                                                                                                        > of guppys.
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > Next morning, guppys are dead. So that evening after work I set
                                                                                                                                                        > out to reset this tank, thinking I didn't rinse everything, or
                                                                                                                                                        clean
                                                                                                                                                        > everything well enough and did it again. I let it run for a week
                                                                                                                                                        > this time and added fish.....guppys died overnight.
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > I then got ticked off and put the tank and gravel outside in the
                                                                                                                                                        > rain and sun and bought a new set up which is working lovely,
                                                                                                                                                        > however, I really want to figure out what the heck is wrong with my
                                                                                                                                                        > tank after months of it being fine. So here are my theories:
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > 1. I have consistently not cleaned the tank, gravel, or filters
                                                                                                                                                        > well enough.
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > 2. Bad bio starter!
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > 3. The gravel is tainted somehow and it isn't the tank afterall,
                                                                                                                                                        > just the gravel.
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > 4. I am wrong on all accounts and one of you will find the
                                                                                                                                                        really
                                                                                                                                                        > simple answer...*chuckle*
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > So, like I said any and all input is greatly appreciated. I
                                                                                                                                                        thank
                                                                                                                                                        > you in advance for your help. Have a lovely day!
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > ~nan and crew~
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > ~nan and crew~
                                                                                                                                                        > Rome, GA
                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.geocities.com/ntalb00/index.htm (updated)
                                                                                                                                                        > bettas and soon we add guppys!
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                        > Do You Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10837 From: Anne Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: why pH test kits should require licenses
                                                                                                                                                        Patrick wrote; One day I will have to write a book for
                                                                                                                                                        people to argue over. Kind of a "history of aquarium
                                                                                                                                                        keeping and why it was done wrong before I told
                                                                                                                                                        everybody how to do it right".

                                                                                                                                                        ROFL. That's one book I'd like to read. But I do agree
                                                                                                                                                        with your statements. Messing with PH in a normal fw
                                                                                                                                                        aquarium creates more problems then it solves. IMO
                                                                                                                                                        And if you suceed in changing the PH without damaging
                                                                                                                                                        the fish, you then have to keep raising or lowering
                                                                                                                                                        with every water change.
                                                                                                                                                        Anne

                                                                                                                                                        __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10838 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Should I still change water?

                                                                                                                                                        I tested my water today.  In all my tanks, ammonia and nitrite were 0.  The nitrate in the tanks were 5, 10 and 20.  Since these are acceptable levels, water is clear, and fish are doing well, do I still change the water or simply top off?

                                                                                                                                                        Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                        Angela

                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10839 From: TankGurl Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Should I still change water?
                                                                                                                                                        On 4/29/05, angelasjenkins@... <angelasjenkins@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > I tested my water today. In all my tanks, ammonia and nitrite were 0. The
                                                                                                                                                        > nitrate in the tanks were 5, 10 and 20. Since these are acceptable levels,
                                                                                                                                                        > water is clear, and fish are doing well, do I still change the water or
                                                                                                                                                        > simply top off?
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                        I'd do a change on the tank that has a reading of 20 nitrate. Anything
                                                                                                                                                        above that could cause issues.


                                                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                                                        65g Malawi
                                                                                                                                                        http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?fish_gurl
                                                                                                                                                        http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=7176

                                                                                                                                                        135g Frontosa
                                                                                                                                                        http://www.picturetrail.com/tankgurl
                                                                                                                                                        http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=8011
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10840 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Should I still change water?
                                                                                                                                                        Angela, Its always beneficial to give all your tanks partial water
                                                                                                                                                        changes if you can, even if its only 10%. For one thing, I believe the
                                                                                                                                                        fresh water stimulates the fish while at the same time the change gets
                                                                                                                                                        rid of the growth-inhibiting pheromones that otherwise can build up.
                                                                                                                                                        While the first two tanks are not at all dangerous with nitrate, at
                                                                                                                                                        least the third tank could use a partial change (25% or so) to keep the
                                                                                                                                                        nitrates in check, even though they're not out of hand. You may want
                                                                                                                                                        to consider adding more plants to that tank to help use up the excess
                                                                                                                                                        nitrates in the future. Ray
                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > I tested my water today. In all my tanks, ammonia and nitrite were
                                                                                                                                                        0. The nitrate in the tanks were 5, 10 and 20. Since these are
                                                                                                                                                        acceptable levels, water is clear, and fish are doing well, do I still
                                                                                                                                                        change the water or simply top off?
                                                                                                                                                        > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                        > Angela
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10841 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        phew, thanks paul! i thought for a second i had completely missed the boat or was just completely
                                                                                                                                                        ignorant. cool, so good to know that i can continue to use my carbon filters w/o fear that there's
                                                                                                                                                        something much better out there that would benefit my fish more than the way i have them set up
                                                                                                                                                        right now.

                                                                                                                                                        --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                        > exactly valeen, steve wants to revamp the entire fish
                                                                                                                                                        > industry to fit his ideals
                                                                                                                                                        > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > > what?!?! no carbon? this is new to me. what are you
                                                                                                                                                        > > supposed to use in filters if there's no carbon? i
                                                                                                                                                        > > have eclipses, a minibow and a glass tank that all
                                                                                                                                                        > > have carbon filters and they work well.
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:Paul,
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > Most prepackaged for the filter carbon is not enough
                                                                                                                                                        > > for either the flow
                                                                                                                                                        > > rate nor the amount of water that will be passing
                                                                                                                                                        > > through it. It does not
                                                                                                                                                        > > matter whether they are the plastic cartridges used
                                                                                                                                                        > > in conjunction with
                                                                                                                                                        > > undergravel filters , or the polyester pads with
                                                                                                                                                        > > carbon in the interior
                                                                                                                                                        > > "pouch". Carbon that has out lived its useful life
                                                                                                                                                        > > will start to shed the
                                                                                                                                                        > > molecules you are picking up. As this is done, it is
                                                                                                                                                        > > not a perfect thing and
                                                                                                                                                        > > molecules can combine to make substances more toxic
                                                                                                                                                        > > than those originally
                                                                                                                                                        > > found in the water.
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > I stand by my statement that on should only use
                                                                                                                                                        > > carbon as a filtration agent
                                                                                                                                                        > > when it is indicated, such as to remove remaining
                                                                                                                                                        > > medication from the water
                                                                                                                                                        > > in a tank. Regular water changes will handle the
                                                                                                                                                        > > substances that carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > removes to an adequate degree. If you want crystal
                                                                                                                                                        > > clear water (something
                                                                                                                                                        > > not often found in nature) then there are other
                                                                                                                                                        > > means and methods to achieve
                                                                                                                                                        > > this that do not carry the risks of carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > filtration.
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                        > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        > > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                        > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:13 PM
                                                                                                                                                        > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > it is dependant upon flow rate o water through it.
                                                                                                                                                        > > most cratridges are specifically for different
                                                                                                                                                        > > models
                                                                                                                                                        > > of filter because they have the proper amount of
                                                                                                                                                        > > carbon for teh flow rate. i do not have exact
                                                                                                                                                        > > numbers
                                                                                                                                                        > > in front of me, but i am sure they could be found.
                                                                                                                                                        > > there is no reason not to use carbon.
                                                                                                                                                        > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a
                                                                                                                                                        > > > regular basis does. You say
                                                                                                                                                        > > > thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances? Do
                                                                                                                                                        > > > you need a half cup of
                                                                                                                                                        > > > carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need one
                                                                                                                                                        > > > cup, or maybe more? What
                                                                                                                                                        > > > about variations in adsorption rates between
                                                                                                                                                        > > > batches?
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do not
                                                                                                                                                        > > use
                                                                                                                                                        > > > carbon on a regular
                                                                                                                                                        > > > basis. If you want crystal clear water, use
                                                                                                                                                        > > regular
                                                                                                                                                        > > > water changes and a
                                                                                                                                                        > > > diatom filter.
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                        > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:53 PM
                                                                                                                                                        > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > in verey day aquarium use, it is used to clarify
                                                                                                                                                        > > the
                                                                                                                                                        > > > water and deodorize the tank. of course it should
                                                                                                                                                        > > > be
                                                                                                                                                        > > > replaced after absorbing meds and chemicals, but
                                                                                                                                                        > > for
                                                                                                                                                        > > > odor and clarity use in a stable aquarium it is 30
                                                                                                                                                        > > > days
                                                                                                                                                        > > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > As I mentioned a bit earlier to Rachel, in
                                                                                                                                                        > > another
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > thread, carbon should
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > only be used in specific instances where
                                                                                                                                                        > > chemical
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > filtration may be
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > warranted. There is no real way to judge when
                                                                                                                                                        > > the
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > efficacy of the carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > filter drops to an unacceptable level. It
                                                                                                                                                        > > depends
                                                                                                                                                        > > > on
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > the amount of carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > being used along with the load of chemicals it
                                                                                                                                                        > > is
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > being asked to remove. In
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > some cases, one day may be more than it takes,
                                                                                                                                                        > > > while
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > in others, the three
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > months you mention may well be within its
                                                                                                                                                        > > limits.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Contrary to what Paul has stated, once the
                                                                                                                                                        > > carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > has been used up, i.e.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > captured all the molecules it can, it has been
                                                                                                                                                        > > > shown
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > that it will release
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > these molecules, sometimes in a toxic
                                                                                                                                                        > > combination
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > with other molecules, and
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > it will not serve as a biological filter.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > With the light load you have in your tank, I'd
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > suggest removing the carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > and replacing it with ceramic rings, or another
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > material that can serve as a
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > biological filter for your tank. Regular water
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > changes should suffice to
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > handle the removal of chemicals that may be
                                                                                                                                                        > > > harmful
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > to your fish.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 12:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > I have a HOT Magnum canister filter which uses
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > carbon and a sponge sleeve in
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > the filter. Is that ok? The guy I got the tank
                                                                                                                                                        > > > and
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > stuff from told me to
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > change the carbon every 3 months, but that he
                                                                                                                                                        > > > hadn't
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > changed it recently. I
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > rinse the sponge sleeve monthly, when should I
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > change the carbon?
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Angela
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > -------------- Original message
                                                                                                                                                        > > --------------
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Rachel, Going by your description of
                                                                                                                                                        > > whats
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > happening, I'm positive
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > that it has to be the new carbon canister
                                                                                                                                                        > > that is
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > darkening the
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > water.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > It seems like the new canister has a lot
                                                                                                                                                        > > of
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > powdered carbon in it
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > probably coating the larger carbon pieces.
                                                                                                                                                        > > Do
                                                                                                                                                        > > > not
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > use the other new
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > canister; it will just make things worse.
                                                                                                                                                        > > Looks
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > like the dark water
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > is
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > a result of suspended carbon particles,
                                                                                                                                                        > > some of
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > which may settle out
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > in
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > time, but will only get stirred up again
                                                                                                                                                        > > when you
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > change water. You
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > don't really need these carbon canisters,
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > especially if you are
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > === message truncated ===
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                                                        I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10842 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hello all
                                                                                                                                                        welcome paul. hope you enjoy this group.

                                                                                                                                                        -valeen

                                                                                                                                                        --- paul711969 <paul.j.w@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > I would like to introduce myself to you all.
                                                                                                                                                        > My name is paul im 37 yrs old and been keeping fish for a number of
                                                                                                                                                        > years and run a forum as well as you can never have to many as more
                                                                                                                                                        > information you get the better you can learn
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > http://koitalk.12.freebb.com
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                                                        I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10843 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Ray, Mark-check out my new #'s

                                                                                                                                                        This is a good thing.  I added a protein remover (plus) pouch to my filter.  It took out the malachite green of course but nitrites are 0, ammonia still 0, ph 7 something.  BUT nitrates are still high at 60! 

                                                                                                                                                        What can I do to get these down?  Everything else is peachy keen, but wow that’s high!

                                                                                                                                                        Suggestions please…..

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        ~Lelsie

                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10844 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Treating Pop-eye?!!!

                                                                                                                                                        What do you use for pop-eye?  Sons beta has it.  Looks disgusting! 

                                                                                                                                                        Everything I look up says to treat it with something I have never heard of.  Is this parasitic?  I have lots of parasite treatments but none these sites say to use.  I have fungus treatments as well.  No bacterial treatments though.

                                                                                                                                                        Help!

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10845 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Treating Pop-eye?!!!
                                                                                                                                                        This is not parasitic, but an internal infection behind the eye, which
                                                                                                                                                        causes gases to push out against the eye. Quite often, it does not
                                                                                                                                                        respond to treatment and may be permanent. In early stages it may be
                                                                                                                                                        treatable. Depending upon the ingredients, some parasite treatments
                                                                                                                                                        may work. Good old all-around "Fungus Eliminator" (by Jungle Labs) has
                                                                                                                                                        been effective against this, containing wide-spectrum gram-
                                                                                                                                                        positive/gram-negative bacterial anti-biotics. Pop Eye usually comes
                                                                                                                                                        with poor water conditions. Ray
                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                        <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > What do you use for pop-eye? Sons beta has it. Looks disgusting!
                                                                                                                                                        > Everything I look up says to treat it with something I have never
                                                                                                                                                        heard
                                                                                                                                                        > of. Is this parasitic? I have lots of parasite treatments but none
                                                                                                                                                        > these sites say to use. I have fungus treatments as well. No
                                                                                                                                                        bacterial
                                                                                                                                                        > treatments though.
                                                                                                                                                        > Help!
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10846 From: TankGurl Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Ray, Mark-check out my new #'s
                                                                                                                                                        On 4/29/05, Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > BUT nitrates are still high at 60!
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > What can I do to get these down? Everything else is peachy keen, but wow
                                                                                                                                                        > that's high!
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Suggestions please…..

                                                                                                                                                        I know there are some filter products out there that help to keep
                                                                                                                                                        nitrates down. In the meantime though, water changes are your best
                                                                                                                                                        bet. I'd do a 50%, then wait a couple days, then do another 50%. Also,
                                                                                                                                                        vacumming your gravel/sand and moving rocks and tank decorations will
                                                                                                                                                        let you suck up any waste that's floating around.

                                                                                                                                                        Kelly
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10847 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Ray, Mark-check out my new #'s
                                                                                                                                                        Looks like you have good colonies of nitrifying bacteria converting the
                                                                                                                                                        ammonia and nitrites. Just not enough plants on the other end to take
                                                                                                                                                        in the excess nitrates and/or too much nutrition going in there in the
                                                                                                                                                        first place, like too much food or an unseen dead fish (or snail, or
                                                                                                                                                        dead plant leaves). Other than that, too large a fish load; fish too
                                                                                                                                                        big for the tank -- they eat too much -- you feed them too much(?) It
                                                                                                                                                        appears you will have to start making more frequent and larger partial
                                                                                                                                                        water changes, or add a bunch more plants, with proper lighting for
                                                                                                                                                        them. Ray
                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                        <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > This is a good thing. I added a protein remover (plus) pouch to my
                                                                                                                                                        > filter. It took out the malachite green of course but nitrites are 0,
                                                                                                                                                        > ammonia still 0, ph 7 something. BUT nitrates are still high at 60!
                                                                                                                                                        > What can I do to get these down? Everything else is peachy keen, but
                                                                                                                                                        > wow that's high!
                                                                                                                                                        > Suggestions please...
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > ~Lelsie
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10848 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Treating Pop-eye?!!!

                                                                                                                                                        Yeah I keep hearing about water conditions when I read on it.  I can’t imagine why now after it’s been fine for so long.  But I did change it already.  I added some dechlorinator which I forgot last time so maybe that’s it.

                                                                                                                                                        I’m tired of these fish problems.  Anyone want some fish?

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        Have kids stuff?  Clothing?  Furniture? Baby things?  Check out Zainy Zebra Consignment!  www.ZainyZebra.com

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        There is also a Little Rock Garage Sale!

                                                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                        From:
                                                                                                                                                        AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 5:15 PM
                                                                                                                                                        To:
                                                                                                                                                        AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        Sub
                                                                                                                                                        ject: [AquaticLife] Re: Treating Pop-eye?!!!

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        This is not parasitic, but an internal infection behind the eye, which
                                                                                                                                                        causes gases to push out against the eye.  Quite often, it does not
                                                                                                                                                        respond to treatment and may be permanent.  In early stages it may be
                                                                                                                                                        treatable.  Depending upon the ingredients, some parasite treatments
                                                                                                                                                        may work.  Good old all-around "Fungus Eliminator" (by Jungle Labs) has
                                                                                                                                                        been effective against this, containing wide-spectrum gram-
                                                                                                                                                        positive/gram-negative bacterial anti-biotics.  Pop Eye usually comes
                                                                                                                                                        with poor water conditions.  Ray                                      
                                                                                                                                                        \                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                        <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > What do you use for pop-eye?  Sons beta has it.  Looks disgusting! 
                                                                                                                                                        > Everything I look up says to treat it with something I have never
                                                                                                                                                        heard
                                                                                                                                                        > of.  Is this parasitic?  I have lots of parasite treatments but none
                                                                                                                                                        > these sites say to use.  I have fungus treatments as well.  No
                                                                                                                                                        bacterial
                                                                                                                                                        > treatments though.
                                                                                                                                                        > Help!





                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10849 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Ray, Mark-check out my new #'s
                                                                                                                                                        Good to read. I just did that, but about a 40% change instead of 50%.

                                                                                                                                                        Have kids stuff? Clothing? Furniture? Baby things? Check out Zainy
                                                                                                                                                        Zebra Consignment! www.ZainyZebra.com

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                                                                                                                                                        Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

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                                                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                        On Behalf Of TankGurl
                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 5:18 PM
                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ray, Mark-check out my new #'s

                                                                                                                                                        On 4/29/05, Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > BUT nitrates are still high at 60!
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > What can I do to get these down? Everything else is peachy keen, but
                                                                                                                                                        wow
                                                                                                                                                        > that's high!
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Suggestions please...

                                                                                                                                                        I know there are some filter products out there that help to keep
                                                                                                                                                        nitrates down. In the meantime though, water changes are your best
                                                                                                                                                        bet. I'd do a 50%, then wait a couple days, then do another 50%. Also,
                                                                                                                                                        vacumming your gravel/sand and moving rocks and tank decorations will
                                                                                                                                                        let you suck up any waste that's floating around.

                                                                                                                                                        Kelly



                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important
                                                                                                                                                        to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                                                        the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                        Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10850 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Treating Pop-eye?!!!
                                                                                                                                                            Despite my opposition to wide range antibiotics, fungus eliminator cured my betta's pop-eye problems completely in a week.  I used a dip method, using 1 tsp/gallon in a gallon jar, put the betta in for a few minutes (I think it was about 10-20 minutes) then sent her back to the tank.  I did that every other day, 3 times.  I really thought the betta was going to be dead if I didn't do anything, but every time I dipped her she got a little better.
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                        Good old all-around "Fungus Eliminator" (by Jungle Labs) has been effective against this, containing wide-spectrum gram-
                                                                                                                                                        positive/gram-negative bacterial anti-biotics.  Pop Eye usually comes with poor water conditions.
                                                                                                                                                          Ray
                                                                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10851 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Ray, Mark-check out my new #'s
                                                                                                                                                        i read in my testing kit booklet that something called nitra-zorb will work. i've seen it at my
                                                                                                                                                        lfs and lps's so you should probably be able to pick it up anywhere near you.

                                                                                                                                                        --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                        > This is a good thing. I added a protein remover (plus) pouch to my
                                                                                                                                                        > filter. It took out the malachite green of course but nitrites are 0,
                                                                                                                                                        > ammonia still 0, ph 7 something. BUT nitrates are still high at 60!
                                                                                                                                                        > What can I do to get these down? Everything else is peachy keen, but
                                                                                                                                                        > wow that's high!
                                                                                                                                                        > Suggestions please...
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > ~Lelsie
                                                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                                                        I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10852 From: paul helms Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        nope you are doing just fine
                                                                                                                                                        --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                        > phew, thanks paul! i thought for a second i had
                                                                                                                                                        > completely missed the boat or was just completely
                                                                                                                                                        > ignorant. cool, so good to know that i can continue
                                                                                                                                                        > to use my carbon filters w/o fear that there's
                                                                                                                                                        > something much better out there that would benefit
                                                                                                                                                        > my fish more than the way i have them set up
                                                                                                                                                        > right now.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > > exactly valeen, steve wants to revamp the entire
                                                                                                                                                        > fish
                                                                                                                                                        > > industry to fit his ideals
                                                                                                                                                        > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > what?!?! no carbon? this is new to me. what are
                                                                                                                                                        > you
                                                                                                                                                        > > > supposed to use in filters if there's no carbon?
                                                                                                                                                        > i
                                                                                                                                                        > > > have eclipses, a minibow and a glass tank that
                                                                                                                                                        > all
                                                                                                                                                        > > > have carbon filters and they work well.
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:Paul,
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Most prepackaged for the filter carbon is not
                                                                                                                                                        > enough
                                                                                                                                                        > > > for either the flow
                                                                                                                                                        > > > rate nor the amount of water that will be
                                                                                                                                                        > passing
                                                                                                                                                        > > > through it. It does not
                                                                                                                                                        > > > matter whether they are the plastic cartridges
                                                                                                                                                        > used
                                                                                                                                                        > > > in conjunction with
                                                                                                                                                        > > > undergravel filters , or the polyester pads with
                                                                                                                                                        > > > carbon in the interior
                                                                                                                                                        > > > "pouch". Carbon that has out lived its useful
                                                                                                                                                        > life
                                                                                                                                                        > > > will start to shed the
                                                                                                                                                        > > > molecules you are picking up. As this is done,
                                                                                                                                                        > it is
                                                                                                                                                        > > > not a perfect thing and
                                                                                                                                                        > > > molecules can combine to make substances more
                                                                                                                                                        > toxic
                                                                                                                                                        > > > than those originally
                                                                                                                                                        > > > found in the water.
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > I stand by my statement that on should only use
                                                                                                                                                        > > > carbon as a filtration agent
                                                                                                                                                        > > > when it is indicated, such as to remove
                                                                                                                                                        > remaining
                                                                                                                                                        > > > medication from the water
                                                                                                                                                        > > > in a tank. Regular water changes will handle the
                                                                                                                                                        > > > substances that carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > removes to an adequate degree. If you want
                                                                                                                                                        > crystal
                                                                                                                                                        > > > clear water (something
                                                                                                                                                        > > > not often found in nature) then there are other
                                                                                                                                                        > > > means and methods to achieve
                                                                                                                                                        > > > this that do not carry the risks of carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > filtration.
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                        > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:13 PM
                                                                                                                                                        > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > it is dependant upon flow rate o water through
                                                                                                                                                        > it.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > most cratridges are specifically for different
                                                                                                                                                        > > > models
                                                                                                                                                        > > > of filter because they have the proper amount of
                                                                                                                                                        > > > carbon for teh flow rate. i do not have exact
                                                                                                                                                        > > > numbers
                                                                                                                                                        > > > in front of me, but i am sure they could be
                                                                                                                                                        > found.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > there is no reason not to use carbon.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > regular basis does. You say
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances?
                                                                                                                                                        > Do
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > you need a half cup of
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need
                                                                                                                                                        > one
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > cup, or maybe more? What
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > about variations in adsorption rates between
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > batches?
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do
                                                                                                                                                        > not
                                                                                                                                                        > > > use
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > carbon on a regular
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > basis. If you want crystal clear water, use
                                                                                                                                                        > > > regular
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > water changes and a
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > diatom filter.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:53 PM
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > in verey day aquarium use, it is used to
                                                                                                                                                        > clarify
                                                                                                                                                        > > > the
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > water and deodorize the tank. of course it
                                                                                                                                                        > should
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > be
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > replaced after absorbing meds and chemicals,
                                                                                                                                                        > but
                                                                                                                                                        > > > for
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > odor and clarity use in a stable aquarium it
                                                                                                                                                        > is 30
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > days
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > As I mentioned a bit earlier to Rachel, in
                                                                                                                                                        > > > another
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > thread, carbon should
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > only be used in specific instances where
                                                                                                                                                        > > > chemical
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > filtration may be
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > warranted. There is no real way to judge
                                                                                                                                                        > when
                                                                                                                                                        > > > the
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > efficacy of the carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > filter drops to an unacceptable level. It
                                                                                                                                                        > > > depends
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > on
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > the amount of carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > being used along with the load of chemicals
                                                                                                                                                        > it
                                                                                                                                                        > > > is
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > being asked to remove. In
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > some cases, one day may be more than it
                                                                                                                                                        > takes,
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > while
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > in others, the three
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > months you mention may well be within its
                                                                                                                                                        > > > limits.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Contrary to what Paul has stated, once the
                                                                                                                                                        > > > carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > has been used up, i.e.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > captured all the molecules it can, it has
                                                                                                                                                        > been
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > shown
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > that it will release
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > these molecules, sometimes in a toxic
                                                                                                                                                        > > > combination
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > with other molecules, and
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > it will not serve as a biological filter.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > With the light load you have in your tank,
                                                                                                                                                        > I'd
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > suggest removing the carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > and replacing it with ceramic rings, or
                                                                                                                                                        > another
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > material that can serve as a
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > biological filter for your tank. Regular
                                                                                                                                                        > water
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > changes should suffice to
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > handle the removal of chemicals that may be
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > harmful
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > to your fish.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 12:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > I have a HOT Magnum canister filter which
                                                                                                                                                        > uses
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > carbon and a sponge sleeve in
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        === message truncated ===


                                                                                                                                                        __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10853 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: why pH test kits should require licenses
                                                                                                                                                        Patrick, aAFG,

                                                                                                                                                        You might want to take a look at _The Toy Fish: A History of the Aquarium
                                                                                                                                                        Hobby in America - The First One Hundred Years, Revised and Expanded
                                                                                                                                                        Edition_ that was published a year or two ago. It does look at some of the
                                                                                                                                                        fads and foibles of the hobby that have occurred.

                                                                                                                                                        You can order it from http://www.finleyaquaticbooks.com, if you wish.

                                                                                                                                                        Not on the web site, but also available now is _The History of Ichthyology_
                                                                                                                                                        which was just published this month. I've not gotten the book yet, but I
                                                                                                                                                        have seen and read portions of it prior to publication. Quite fascinating.

                                                                                                                                                        After reading those, you can go ahead and write your own.

                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 1:25 AM
                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] why pH test kits should require licenses


                                                                                                                                                        WARNING: This is not aimed at anybody, don't get upset, don't be offended,
                                                                                                                                                        and don't change your opinion based on my own. This is just my opinion, and
                                                                                                                                                        it is long. One day I will have to write a book for people to argue over.
                                                                                                                                                        Kind of a "history of aquarium keeping and why it was done wrong before I
                                                                                                                                                        told everybody how to do it right".

                                                                                                                                                        SECOND WARNING: If you don't like my long posts where I say a bunch of
                                                                                                                                                        nonsense and it means very little to you, just skip it now.

                                                                                                                                                        I don't get this junk about pH and toxicity. What are you going to do
                                                                                                                                                        about it? Change the pH while the nitrogen levels are high? That would be
                                                                                                                                                        devastating to the tank. I say test your pH at most 3 times a year just to
                                                                                                                                                        see what it looks like. People who test pH often should only be those who
                                                                                                                                                        keep fish that are sensitive to pH, like sw fish, angels, and discus. The
                                                                                                                                                        average fish keeper could go without every buying a pH kit and be better off
                                                                                                                                                        for it. People get the things and think their water should be at exactly 7,
                                                                                                                                                        and if it is higher than 7.5 they think it is too high, they start using the
                                                                                                                                                        supplied chemicals with no idea of how they work. pH is not that important
                                                                                                                                                        in my opinion. Mostly that is because fish are not raised in their native
                                                                                                                                                        waters anymore, and I doubt most people could ever find out what the pH in
                                                                                                                                                        their breeding tanks were. The best thing to do is acclimate the fish to
                                                                                                                                                        your water over 30 minutes when you get them, and then forget pH completely.
                                                                                                                                                        Now there is come concern about tap water changing pH over time, or the
                                                                                                                                                        tank changing over time. Again I ask, What are you going to do about it?
                                                                                                                                                        If you have a block of lime stone or something in there making it go way up
                                                                                                                                                        you have a problem that is easy to fix, take the rock out! If you have
                                                                                                                                                        driftwood that lowers it too much, that is a little more difficult. Just
                                                                                                                                                        get a large plastic container at the local farm supply store and put some
                                                                                                                                                        peat in the bottom, then drain water from that and refill it to use in water
                                                                                                                                                        changes. I have to say, I change water ever 1-2 weeks and my pH is constant
                                                                                                                                                        in all tanks, and does not deviate from the pH of the tap by more than .3.
                                                                                                                                                        If I change as much as 1/3 of my water, at most I will change the tank pH
                                                                                                                                                        by .1, which is not going to hurt much. If tank pH is more than .5
                                                                                                                                                        different from the tap water, you just aren't doing your water changes often
                                                                                                                                                        enough, in my opinion.
                                                                                                                                                        I say quit over thinking this and get back to what this is. It is no
                                                                                                                                                        hobby. Hobbies are building tanks, or even setting them up. After that,
                                                                                                                                                        fishkeeping is nothing like a hobby. It is a way of life. It is like
                                                                                                                                                        keeping a dog. You may worry about how much nutrition is in its food, but
                                                                                                                                                        you aren't going to test the pH of the water in its dog bowl and compare it
                                                                                                                                                        to the pH of what comes out of the dog food can (or the dog). Enjoy the
                                                                                                                                                        fish, keep the nitrates low, and remember to talk loudly so they will hear
                                                                                                                                                        you through the glass! :)

                                                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10854 From: paul helms Date: 4/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: why pH test kits should require licenses
                                                                                                                                                        guess you don't understand the concept of sarcasm....
                                                                                                                                                        and by the way, i would buy a book by pat any day,
                                                                                                                                                        just for his funny ass way of putting things!
                                                                                                                                                        --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > Patrick, aAFG,
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > You might want to take a look at _The Toy Fish: A
                                                                                                                                                        > History of the Aquarium
                                                                                                                                                        > Hobby in America - The First One Hundred Years,
                                                                                                                                                        > Revised and Expanded
                                                                                                                                                        > Edition_ that was published a year or two ago. It
                                                                                                                                                        > does look at some of the
                                                                                                                                                        > fads and foibles of the hobby that have occurred.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > You can order it from
                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.finleyaquaticbooks.com, if you wish.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Not on the web site, but also available now is _The
                                                                                                                                                        > History of Ichthyology_
                                                                                                                                                        > which was just published this month. I've not gotten
                                                                                                                                                        > the book yet, but I
                                                                                                                                                        > have seen and read portions of it prior to
                                                                                                                                                        > publication. Quite fascinating.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > After reading those, you can go ahead and write your
                                                                                                                                                        > own.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 1:25 AM
                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: [AquaticLife] why pH test kits should
                                                                                                                                                        > require licenses
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > WARNING: This is not aimed at anybody, don't get
                                                                                                                                                        > upset, don't be offended,
                                                                                                                                                        > and don't change your opinion based on my own. This
                                                                                                                                                        > is just my opinion, and
                                                                                                                                                        > it is long. One day I will have to write a book for
                                                                                                                                                        > people to argue over.
                                                                                                                                                        > Kind of a "history of aquarium keeping and why it
                                                                                                                                                        > was done wrong before I
                                                                                                                                                        > told everybody how to do it right".
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > SECOND WARNING: If you don't like my long posts
                                                                                                                                                        > where I say a bunch of
                                                                                                                                                        > nonsense and it means very little to you, just skip
                                                                                                                                                        > it now.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > I don't get this junk about pH and toxicity.
                                                                                                                                                        > What are you going to do
                                                                                                                                                        > about it? Change the pH while the nitrogen levels
                                                                                                                                                        > are high? That would be
                                                                                                                                                        > devastating to the tank. I say test your pH at most
                                                                                                                                                        > 3 times a year just to
                                                                                                                                                        > see what it looks like. People who test pH often
                                                                                                                                                        > should only be those who
                                                                                                                                                        > keep fish that are sensitive to pH, like sw fish,
                                                                                                                                                        > angels, and discus. The
                                                                                                                                                        > average fish keeper could go without every buying a
                                                                                                                                                        > pH kit and be better off
                                                                                                                                                        > for it. People get the things and think their water
                                                                                                                                                        > should be at exactly 7,
                                                                                                                                                        > and if it is higher than 7.5 they think it is too
                                                                                                                                                        > high, they start using the
                                                                                                                                                        > supplied chemicals with no idea of how they work.
                                                                                                                                                        > pH is not that important
                                                                                                                                                        > in my opinion. Mostly that is because fish are not
                                                                                                                                                        > raised in their native
                                                                                                                                                        > waters anymore, and I doubt most people could ever
                                                                                                                                                        > find out what the pH in
                                                                                                                                                        > their breeding tanks were. The best thing to do is
                                                                                                                                                        > acclimate the fish to
                                                                                                                                                        > your water over 30 minutes when you get them, and
                                                                                                                                                        > then forget pH completely.
                                                                                                                                                        > Now there is come concern about tap water
                                                                                                                                                        > changing pH over time, or the
                                                                                                                                                        > tank changing over time. Again I ask, What are you
                                                                                                                                                        > going to do about it?
                                                                                                                                                        > If you have a block of lime stone or something in
                                                                                                                                                        > there making it go way up
                                                                                                                                                        > you have a problem that is easy to fix, take the
                                                                                                                                                        > rock out! If you have
                                                                                                                                                        > driftwood that lowers it too much, that is a little
                                                                                                                                                        > more difficult. Just
                                                                                                                                                        > get a large plastic container at the local farm
                                                                                                                                                        > supply store and put some
                                                                                                                                                        > peat in the bottom, then drain water from that and
                                                                                                                                                        > refill it to use in water
                                                                                                                                                        > changes. I have to say, I change water ever 1-2
                                                                                                                                                        > weeks and my pH is constant
                                                                                                                                                        > in all tanks, and does not deviate from the pH of
                                                                                                                                                        > the tap by more than .3.
                                                                                                                                                        > If I change as much as 1/3 of my water, at most I
                                                                                                                                                        > will change the tank pH
                                                                                                                                                        > by .1, which is not going to hurt much. If tank pH
                                                                                                                                                        > is more than .5
                                                                                                                                                        > different from the tap water, you just aren't doing
                                                                                                                                                        > your water changes often
                                                                                                                                                        > enough, in my opinion.
                                                                                                                                                        > I say quit over thinking this and get back to
                                                                                                                                                        > what this is. It is no
                                                                                                                                                        > hobby. Hobbies are building tanks, or even setting
                                                                                                                                                        > them up. After that,
                                                                                                                                                        > fishkeeping is nothing like a hobby. It is a way of
                                                                                                                                                        > life. It is like
                                                                                                                                                        > keeping a dog. You may worry about how much
                                                                                                                                                        > nutrition is in its food, but
                                                                                                                                                        > you aren't going to test the pH of the water in its
                                                                                                                                                        > dog bowl and compare it
                                                                                                                                                        > to the pH of what comes out of the dog food can (or
                                                                                                                                                        > the dog). Enjoy the
                                                                                                                                                        > fish, keep the nitrates low, and remember to talk
                                                                                                                                                        > loudly so they will hear
                                                                                                                                                        > you through the glass! :)
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >

                                                                                                                                                        __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                        Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                                        http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10855 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: why pH test kits should require licenses
                                                                                                                                                        My fish get red red red gills if i don't pH down my water.


                                                                                                                                                        I have tried this several times since getting the tank and its not
                                                                                                                                                        related to ammonia or nitrites, well at least they were fine before i
                                                                                                                                                        did the water change.

                                                                                                                                                        Hence my current belef of keeping a pH of 6.8 or 7.

                                                                                                                                                        Also i feel the benifits of adding the pH down to EACH bucket in
                                                                                                                                                        little bits compaired to adding a large cap full are significant
                                                                                                                                                        savings and more stable pH readings.

                                                                                                                                                        =Nick


                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Anne <md_gustoby@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > Patrick wrote; One day I will have to write a book for
                                                                                                                                                        > people to argue over. Kind of a "history of aquarium
                                                                                                                                                        > keeping and why it was done wrong before I told
                                                                                                                                                        > everybody how to do it right".
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > ROFL. That's one book I'd like to read. But I do agree
                                                                                                                                                        > with your statements. Messing with PH in a normal fw
                                                                                                                                                        > aquarium creates more problems then it solves. IMO
                                                                                                                                                        > And if you suceed in changing the PH without damaging
                                                                                                                                                        > the fish, you then have to keep raising or lowering
                                                                                                                                                        > with every water change.
                                                                                                                                                        > Anne
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                                        > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10856 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 4/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Plants!
                                                                                                                                                        Lately I have been getting a facination with a planted aquarium.

                                                                                                                                                        What should i get for my 300 liter (90gallon) tank by ways of a CO2
                                                                                                                                                        system?


                                                                                                                                                        Which is cheeper and best in the long run?


                                                                                                                                                        =Nick
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10857 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 4/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: why pH test kits should require licenses
                                                                                                                                                        There are those who say you and I should write a book together.  I think it would be the funniest book ever. 
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                        guess you don't understand the concept of sarcasm....and by the way, i would buy a book by pat any day, just for his funny ass way of putting things!
                                                                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10858 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: why pH test kits should require licenses
                                                                                                                                                        Sarcasm or not, I have heard many a person saying that they should write a
                                                                                                                                                        book. Some do, more don't. Anyway, these are two books that some people here
                                                                                                                                                        may be interested in obtaining and reading. Neither of them will make any
                                                                                                                                                        best selling list, nor would you be likely to find them in your local
                                                                                                                                                        bookstore or your LFS. With out a mention of them here, most would remain
                                                                                                                                                        blissfully unaware of their existence.

                                                                                                                                                        As I mentioned in a message earlier this week, I write in my replies not
                                                                                                                                                        necessarily directly to the person I am replying to, though part of my reply
                                                                                                                                                        does that, but to the wider audience out there that are reading these
                                                                                                                                                        messages.

                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 3:10 AM
                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] why pH test kits should require licenses

                                                                                                                                                        guess you don't understand the concept of sarcasm....
                                                                                                                                                        and by the way, i would buy a book by pat any day,
                                                                                                                                                        just for his funny ass way of putting things!
                                                                                                                                                        --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > Patrick, aAFG,
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > You might want to take a look at _The Toy Fish: A
                                                                                                                                                        > History of the Aquarium
                                                                                                                                                        > Hobby in America - The First One Hundred Years,
                                                                                                                                                        > Revised and Expanded
                                                                                                                                                        > Edition_ that was published a year or two ago. It
                                                                                                                                                        > does look at some of the
                                                                                                                                                        > fads and foibles of the hobby that have occurred.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > You can order it from
                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.finleyaquaticbooks.com, if you wish.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Not on the web site, but also available now is _The
                                                                                                                                                        > History of Ichthyology_
                                                                                                                                                        > which was just published this month. I've not gotten
                                                                                                                                                        > the book yet, but I
                                                                                                                                                        > have seen and read portions of it prior to
                                                                                                                                                        > publication. Quite fascinating.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > After reading those, you can go ahead and write your
                                                                                                                                                        > own.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 1:25 AM
                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: [AquaticLife] why pH test kits should
                                                                                                                                                        > require licenses
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > WARNING: This is not aimed at anybody, don't get
                                                                                                                                                        > upset, don't be offended,
                                                                                                                                                        > and don't change your opinion based on my own. This
                                                                                                                                                        > is just my opinion, and
                                                                                                                                                        > it is long. One day I will have to write a book for
                                                                                                                                                        > people to argue over.
                                                                                                                                                        > Kind of a "history of aquarium keeping and why it
                                                                                                                                                        > was done wrong before I
                                                                                                                                                        > told everybody how to do it right".
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > SECOND WARNING: If you don't like my long posts
                                                                                                                                                        > where I say a bunch of
                                                                                                                                                        > nonsense and it means very little to you, just skip
                                                                                                                                                        > it now.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > I don't get this junk about pH and toxicity.
                                                                                                                                                        > What are you going to do
                                                                                                                                                        > about it? Change the pH while the nitrogen levels
                                                                                                                                                        > are high? That would be
                                                                                                                                                        > devastating to the tank. I say test your pH at most
                                                                                                                                                        > 3 times a year just to
                                                                                                                                                        > see what it looks like. People who test pH often
                                                                                                                                                        > should only be those who
                                                                                                                                                        > keep fish that are sensitive to pH, like sw fish,
                                                                                                                                                        > angels, and discus. The
                                                                                                                                                        > average fish keeper could go without every buying a
                                                                                                                                                        > pH kit and be better off
                                                                                                                                                        > for it. People get the things and think their water
                                                                                                                                                        > should be at exactly 7,
                                                                                                                                                        > and if it is higher than 7.5 they think it is too
                                                                                                                                                        > high, they start using the
                                                                                                                                                        > supplied chemicals with no idea of how they work.
                                                                                                                                                        > pH is not that important
                                                                                                                                                        > in my opinion. Mostly that is because fish are not
                                                                                                                                                        > raised in their native
                                                                                                                                                        > waters anymore, and I doubt most people could ever
                                                                                                                                                        > find out what the pH in
                                                                                                                                                        > their breeding tanks were. The best thing to do is
                                                                                                                                                        > acclimate the fish to
                                                                                                                                                        > your water over 30 minutes when you get them, and
                                                                                                                                                        > then forget pH completely.
                                                                                                                                                        > Now there is come concern about tap water
                                                                                                                                                        > changing pH over time, or the
                                                                                                                                                        > tank changing over time. Again I ask, What are you
                                                                                                                                                        > going to do about it?
                                                                                                                                                        > If you have a block of lime stone or something in
                                                                                                                                                        > there making it go way up
                                                                                                                                                        > you have a problem that is easy to fix, take the
                                                                                                                                                        > rock out! If you have
                                                                                                                                                        > driftwood that lowers it too much, that is a little
                                                                                                                                                        > more difficult. Just
                                                                                                                                                        > get a large plastic container at the local farm
                                                                                                                                                        > supply store and put some
                                                                                                                                                        > peat in the bottom, then drain water from that and
                                                                                                                                                        > refill it to use in water
                                                                                                                                                        > changes. I have to say, I change water ever 1-2
                                                                                                                                                        > weeks and my pH is constant
                                                                                                                                                        > in all tanks, and does not deviate from the pH of
                                                                                                                                                        > the tap by more than .3.
                                                                                                                                                        > If I change as much as 1/3 of my water, at most I
                                                                                                                                                        > will change the tank pH
                                                                                                                                                        > by .1, which is not going to hurt much. If tank pH
                                                                                                                                                        > is more than .5
                                                                                                                                                        > different from the tap water, you just aren't doing
                                                                                                                                                        > your water changes often
                                                                                                                                                        > enough, in my opinion.
                                                                                                                                                        > I say quit over thinking this and get back to
                                                                                                                                                        > what this is. It is no
                                                                                                                                                        > hobby. Hobbies are building tanks, or even setting
                                                                                                                                                        > them up. After that,
                                                                                                                                                        > fishkeeping is nothing like a hobby. It is a way of
                                                                                                                                                        > life. It is like
                                                                                                                                                        > keeping a dog. You may worry about how much
                                                                                                                                                        > nutrition is in its food, but
                                                                                                                                                        > you aren't going to test the pH of the water in its
                                                                                                                                                        > dog bowl and compare it
                                                                                                                                                        > to the pH of what comes out of the dog food can (or
                                                                                                                                                        > the dog). Enjoy the
                                                                                                                                                        > fish, keep the nitrates low, and remember to talk
                                                                                                                                                        > loudly so they will hear
                                                                                                                                                        > you through the glass! :)
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10859 From: Steve Szabo Date: 4/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        Paul,

                                                                                                                                                        Simply follow the published research. Nothing more, nothing less.

                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 3:23 AM
                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter

                                                                                                                                                        exactly valeen, steve wants to revamp the entire fish
                                                                                                                                                        industry to fit his ideals
                                                                                                                                                        --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                        > what?!?! no carbon? this is new to me. what are you
                                                                                                                                                        > supposed to use in filters if there's no carbon? i
                                                                                                                                                        > have eclipses, a minibow and a glass tank that all
                                                                                                                                                        > have carbon filters and they work well.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:Paul,
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Most prepackaged for the filter carbon is not enough
                                                                                                                                                        > for either the flow
                                                                                                                                                        > rate nor the amount of water that will be passing
                                                                                                                                                        > through it. It does not
                                                                                                                                                        > matter whether they are the plastic cartridges used
                                                                                                                                                        > in conjunction with
                                                                                                                                                        > undergravel filters , or the polyester pads with
                                                                                                                                                        > carbon in the interior
                                                                                                                                                        > "pouch". Carbon that has out lived its useful life
                                                                                                                                                        > will start to shed the
                                                                                                                                                        > molecules you are picking up. As this is done, it is
                                                                                                                                                        > not a perfect thing and
                                                                                                                                                        > molecules can combine to make substances more toxic
                                                                                                                                                        > than those originally
                                                                                                                                                        > found in the water.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > I stand by my statement that on should only use
                                                                                                                                                        > carbon as a filtration agent
                                                                                                                                                        > when it is indicated, such as to remove remaining
                                                                                                                                                        > medication from the water
                                                                                                                                                        > in a tank. Regular water changes will handle the
                                                                                                                                                        > substances that carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > removes to an adequate degree. If you want crystal
                                                                                                                                                        > clear water (something
                                                                                                                                                        > not often found in nature) then there are other
                                                                                                                                                        > means and methods to achieve
                                                                                                                                                        > this that do not carry the risks of carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > filtration.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:13 PM
                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > it is dependant upon flow rate o water through it.
                                                                                                                                                        > most cratridges are specifically for different
                                                                                                                                                        > models
                                                                                                                                                        > of filter because they have the proper amount of
                                                                                                                                                        > carbon for teh flow rate. i do not have exact
                                                                                                                                                        > numbers
                                                                                                                                                        > in front of me, but i am sure they could be found.
                                                                                                                                                        > there is no reason not to use carbon.
                                                                                                                                                        > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a
                                                                                                                                                        > > regular basis does. You say
                                                                                                                                                        > > thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances? Do
                                                                                                                                                        > > you need a half cup of
                                                                                                                                                        > > carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need one
                                                                                                                                                        > > cup, or maybe more? What
                                                                                                                                                        > > about variations in adsorption rates between
                                                                                                                                                        > > batches?
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do not
                                                                                                                                                        > use
                                                                                                                                                        > > carbon on a regular
                                                                                                                                                        > > basis. If you want crystal clear water, use
                                                                                                                                                        > regular
                                                                                                                                                        > > water changes and a
                                                                                                                                                        > > diatom filter.
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                        > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        > > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                        > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:53 PM
                                                                                                                                                        > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > in verey day aquarium use, it is used to clarify
                                                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                                                        > > water and deodorize the tank. of course it should
                                                                                                                                                        > > be
                                                                                                                                                        > > replaced after absorbing meds and chemicals, but
                                                                                                                                                        > for
                                                                                                                                                        > > odor and clarity use in a stable aquarium it is 30
                                                                                                                                                        > > days
                                                                                                                                                        > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > As I mentioned a bit earlier to Rachel, in
                                                                                                                                                        > another
                                                                                                                                                        > > > thread, carbon should
                                                                                                                                                        > > > only be used in specific instances where
                                                                                                                                                        > chemical
                                                                                                                                                        > > > filtration may be
                                                                                                                                                        > > > warranted. There is no real way to judge when
                                                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                                                        > > > efficacy of the carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > filter drops to an unacceptable level. It
                                                                                                                                                        > depends
                                                                                                                                                        > > on
                                                                                                                                                        > > > the amount of carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > being used along with the load of chemicals it
                                                                                                                                                        > is
                                                                                                                                                        > > > being asked to remove. In
                                                                                                                                                        > > > some cases, one day may be more than it takes,
                                                                                                                                                        > > while
                                                                                                                                                        > > > in others, the three
                                                                                                                                                        > > > months you mention may well be within its
                                                                                                                                                        > limits.
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Contrary to what Paul has stated, once the
                                                                                                                                                        > carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > has been used up, i.e.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > captured all the molecules it can, it has been
                                                                                                                                                        > > shown
                                                                                                                                                        > > > that it will release
                                                                                                                                                        > > > these molecules, sometimes in a toxic
                                                                                                                                                        > combination
                                                                                                                                                        > > > with other molecules, and
                                                                                                                                                        > > > it will not serve as a biological filter.
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > With the light load you have in your tank, I'd
                                                                                                                                                        > > > suggest removing the carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > and replacing it with ceramic rings, or another
                                                                                                                                                        > > > material that can serve as a
                                                                                                                                                        > > > biological filter for your tank. Regular water
                                                                                                                                                        > > > changes should suffice to
                                                                                                                                                        > > > handle the removal of chemicals that may be
                                                                                                                                                        > > harmful
                                                                                                                                                        > > > to your fish.
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 12:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                        > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > I have a HOT Magnum canister filter which uses
                                                                                                                                                        > > > carbon and a sponge sleeve in
                                                                                                                                                        > > > the filter. Is that ok? The guy I got the tank
                                                                                                                                                        > > and
                                                                                                                                                        > > > stuff from told me to
                                                                                                                                                        > > > change the carbon every 3 months, but that he
                                                                                                                                                        > > hadn't
                                                                                                                                                        > > > changed it recently. I
                                                                                                                                                        > > > rinse the sponge sleeve monthly, when should I
                                                                                                                                                        > > > change the carbon?
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Angela
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > -------------- Original message
                                                                                                                                                        > --------------
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Rachel, Going by your description of
                                                                                                                                                        > whats
                                                                                                                                                        > > > happening, I'm positive
                                                                                                                                                        > > > that it has to be the new carbon canister
                                                                                                                                                        > that is
                                                                                                                                                        > > > darkening the
                                                                                                                                                        > > > water.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > It seems like the new canister has a lot
                                                                                                                                                        > of
                                                                                                                                                        > > > powdered carbon in it
                                                                                                                                                        > > > probably coating the larger carbon pieces.
                                                                                                                                                        > Do
                                                                                                                                                        > > not
                                                                                                                                                        > > > use the other new
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > canister; it will just make things worse.
                                                                                                                                                        > Looks
                                                                                                                                                        > > > like the dark water
                                                                                                                                                        > > > is
                                                                                                                                                        > > > a result of suspended carbon particles,
                                                                                                                                                        > some of
                                                                                                                                                        > > > which may settle out
                                                                                                                                                        > > > in
                                                                                                                                                        > > > time, but will only get stirred up again
                                                                                                                                                        > when you
                                                                                                                                                        > > > change water. You
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > don't really need these carbon canisters,
                                                                                                                                                        > > > especially if you are
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        === message truncated ===


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                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10860 From: Eric Miner Date: 4/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Adding substrate early?
                                                                                                                                                        Hello All,

                                                                                                                                                        I have what's probably a stupid question….I'm being paranoid. Is there
                                                                                                                                                        any problem with going ahead and washing my substrate and setting it
                                                                                                                                                        up in the tank a week or two before I add water and plants? Will any
                                                                                                                                                        nasty bacteria settle into the damp substrate (Flourite and gravel)?
                                                                                                                                                        Due to my schedule I have to set up my first tank in steps.
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10861 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 4/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Adding substrate early?
                                                                                                                                                        I have never had any bad experiences doing it that way..Maybe others will post with bad experiences
                                                                                                                                                        i think you'll be ok..

                                                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                                                        Indiana
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10862 From: bethym99 Date: 4/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
                                                                                                                                                        I am researching marine tank setups and trying to decide what to
                                                                                                                                                        purchase. Boy, there are alot of options! We are hoping to start a
                                                                                                                                                        tank that can house some marine fish (clowns, tangs, etc) and some
                                                                                                                                                        invertebrates. This setup is available from someone in town and I
                                                                                                                                                        wanted to share the setup and see if any fellow marine hobbyists
                                                                                                                                                        have any feedback on it, what other questions should I be asking?
                                                                                                                                                        The LFS owner said it was a 'great deal' (and he's not selling it to
                                                                                                                                                        me).

                                                                                                                                                        Thank you! I hope to learn alot from this group so our start in this
                                                                                                                                                        hobby is a successful one :-)

                                                                                                                                                        55 gallon tank 48"x12"x12"
                                                                                                                                                        All glass tank and stand (Black)
                                                                                                                                                        Lunar Light with Moon Light
                                                                                                                                                        Heater
                                                                                                                                                        60 Series Eco System Hang off the back
                                                                                                                                                        Live Sand
                                                                                                                                                        Aroma Protein Skimmer
                                                                                                                                                        2 Timer
                                                                                                                                                        2 Power Strips
                                                                                                                                                        2 Power Heads
                                                                                                                                                        With one wave maker
                                                                                                                                                        upgraded pump on eco system
                                                                                                                                                        can filter

                                                                                                                                                        Selling it for $650
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10863 From: Nan Date: 4/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: pleco
                                                                                                                                                        Happy Birthday, Rachel! 
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        Also, I didn't know you were living that close to your folks, otherwise I wouldn't have made the suggestion about having to have them change the filter for you.  Sounds like a good plan to me.
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        I would also think that your pleco should be fine for a few months in the smaller tank and then when you get the other going you might be able to add him, depending on if he is a cold water type fish.  I don't know alot about plecos, therefore I can't answer that question, but I am sure that there are plenty in the group that know about them.  I would think, in a 20+ gallon tank that yes, you could have 1 more goldfish for company for the other.  Once again, I don't know alot about goldfish either.  I keep tropicals.
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        ~nan and crew~

                                                                                                                                                        Rachel <star9crystal@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        i checked out that site and id'd my pleco. so i had an idea and i
                                                                                                                                                        wanted to inquire to you lovely people about it. right now hes cute
                                                                                                                                                        small and i need to move him to a bigger tank, would it be possible
                                                                                                                                                        to keep him in that one for a while, get it clean some, and when he
                                                                                                                                                        gets bigger possibly keep him in the new goldfish tank. that would
                                                                                                                                                        be in about 3 months. unfortunantly my little sick black moore died,
                                                                                                                                                        but i removed the carbon off the filter and the waters bright and
                                                                                                                                                        clear in the 2 gal setup. i'm sure that if it would be plausible to
                                                                                                                                                        add the pleco (i dont know if he would like the colder temp, as i do
                                                                                                                                                        not think heating is necessary for goldfish tanks) so i was
                                                                                                                                                        pondering keeping the pleco in the goldfish tank which would be
                                                                                                                                                        either 10, 20, or 30 gallons (depending on my ability to *convince*
                                                                                                                                                        my parents. also was wondering if my goldfish would like a companion
                                                                                                                                                        goldfish? ever? and does anybody have any ideas on decorating such
                                                                                                                                                        aquarium? i know plecos like driftwood (ive read up a tad since my
                                                                                                                                                        last post) and i should have fine sand like objects for the
                                                                                                                                                        goldfish... are they compadable? just for a while? until i get my
                                                                                                                                                        own place not on campus.
                                                                                                                                                        also, my parents actually live 2 miles from campus, so i was
                                                                                                                                                        planning on going home once a week (which i do now anyway to handle
                                                                                                                                                        their computer problems, and to check on their pets, not food and
                                                                                                                                                        water but general welfare and physical health, ive had to bring them
                                                                                                                                                        to the vet numerous times, my parents are very busy people) and i
                                                                                                                                                        was planning on getting a good strong powerfilter and doing water
                                                                                                                                                        changes once a week when i check up on them.

                                                                                                                                                        oh and also, my birthdays tomorrow!!! i'll be 19.

                                                                                                                                                        oh and i didnt know that the gulf of mexico was on the west coast?

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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10864 From: Tammy Date: 4/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Filter Question
                                                                                                                                                        I have an Aqua-Tech 10-20. I have been noticing that the filter system
                                                                                                                                                        is putting charcal in my tank. My water is coming out of the tank is
                                                                                                                                                        blue and in the bucket it is blue black color. I have been changing
                                                                                                                                                        the filter every 2-3 weeks. Why is it putting so much charcal into the
                                                                                                                                                        tank and how do I correct it?

                                                                                                                                                        Tammy
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10865 From: paul helms Date: 4/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Filter Question
                                                                                                                                                        rinse the coal under teh tap until it comes out clear,
                                                                                                                                                        before putting itin the tank. there must be something
                                                                                                                                                        esle turning it blue, coal is black or dark gray, not
                                                                                                                                                        blue
                                                                                                                                                        --- Tammy <wolf1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > I have an Aqua-Tech 10-20. I have been noticing that
                                                                                                                                                        > the filter system
                                                                                                                                                        > is putting charcal in my tank. My water is coming
                                                                                                                                                        > out of the tank is
                                                                                                                                                        > blue and in the bucket it is blue black color. I
                                                                                                                                                        > have been changing
                                                                                                                                                        > the filter every 2-3 weeks. Why is it putting so
                                                                                                                                                        > much charcal into the
                                                                                                                                                        > tank and how do I correct it?
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Tammy
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >

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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10866 From: paul helms Date: 4/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Adding substrate early?
                                                                                                                                                        no problem
                                                                                                                                                        --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > Hello All,
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > I have what's probably a stupid question�.I'm being
                                                                                                                                                        > paranoid. Is there
                                                                                                                                                        > any problem with going ahead and washing my
                                                                                                                                                        > substrate and setting it
                                                                                                                                                        > up in the tank a week or two before I add water and
                                                                                                                                                        > plants? Will any
                                                                                                                                                        > nasty bacteria settle into the damp substrate
                                                                                                                                                        > (Flourite and gravel)?
                                                                                                                                                        > Due to my schedule I have to set up my first tank in
                                                                                                                                                        > steps.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >

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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10867 From: paul helms Date: 4/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        i don't need any advice or directions from you steve.
                                                                                                                                                        i have more than a decade of experience, work in
                                                                                                                                                        industry, and have no [problems with my tanks. if i
                                                                                                                                                        were to have a question, i have many outlets that i
                                                                                                                                                        trust, including head of the marine bioogy dept. at
                                                                                                                                                        csu santa cruz. as well as industry sources as i have
                                                                                                                                                        3 years industry experience as well. i set up tanks
                                                                                                                                                        every week, and advise daily, with a whole lot of
                                                                                                                                                        satisfied customers.
                                                                                                                                                        --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                        > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Simply follow the published research. Nothing more,
                                                                                                                                                        > nothing less.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 3:23 AM
                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > exactly valeen, steve wants to revamp the entire
                                                                                                                                                        > fish
                                                                                                                                                        > industry to fit his ideals
                                                                                                                                                        > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > > what?!?! no carbon? this is new to me. what are
                                                                                                                                                        > you
                                                                                                                                                        > > supposed to use in filters if there's no carbon? i
                                                                                                                                                        > > have eclipses, a minibow and a glass tank that all
                                                                                                                                                        > > have carbon filters and they work well.
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:Paul,
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > Most prepackaged for the filter carbon is not
                                                                                                                                                        > enough
                                                                                                                                                        > > for either the flow
                                                                                                                                                        > > rate nor the amount of water that will be passing
                                                                                                                                                        > > through it. It does not
                                                                                                                                                        > > matter whether they are the plastic cartridges
                                                                                                                                                        > used
                                                                                                                                                        > > in conjunction with
                                                                                                                                                        > > undergravel filters , or the polyester pads with
                                                                                                                                                        > > carbon in the interior
                                                                                                                                                        > > "pouch". Carbon that has out lived its useful life
                                                                                                                                                        > > will start to shed the
                                                                                                                                                        > > molecules you are picking up. As this is done, it
                                                                                                                                                        > is
                                                                                                                                                        > > not a perfect thing and
                                                                                                                                                        > > molecules can combine to make substances more
                                                                                                                                                        > toxic
                                                                                                                                                        > > than those originally
                                                                                                                                                        > > found in the water.
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > I stand by my statement that on should only use
                                                                                                                                                        > > carbon as a filtration agent
                                                                                                                                                        > > when it is indicated, such as to remove remaining
                                                                                                                                                        > > medication from the water
                                                                                                                                                        > > in a tank. Regular water changes will handle the
                                                                                                                                                        > > substances that carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > removes to an adequate degree. If you want crystal
                                                                                                                                                        > > clear water (something
                                                                                                                                                        > > not often found in nature) then there are other
                                                                                                                                                        > > means and methods to achieve
                                                                                                                                                        > > this that do not carry the risks of carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > filtration.
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                        > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        > > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                        > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:13 PM
                                                                                                                                                        > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > it is dependant upon flow rate o water through it.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > > most cratridges are specifically for different
                                                                                                                                                        > > models
                                                                                                                                                        > > of filter because they have the proper amount of
                                                                                                                                                        > > carbon for teh flow rate. i do not have exact
                                                                                                                                                        > > numbers
                                                                                                                                                        > > in front of me, but i am sure they could be found.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > > there is no reason not to use carbon.
                                                                                                                                                        > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a
                                                                                                                                                        > > > regular basis does. You say
                                                                                                                                                        > > > thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances?
                                                                                                                                                        > Do
                                                                                                                                                        > > > you need a half cup of
                                                                                                                                                        > > > carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need
                                                                                                                                                        > one
                                                                                                                                                        > > > cup, or maybe more? What
                                                                                                                                                        > > > about variations in adsorption rates between
                                                                                                                                                        > > > batches?
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do not
                                                                                                                                                        > > use
                                                                                                                                                        > > > carbon on a regular
                                                                                                                                                        > > > basis. If you want crystal clear water, use
                                                                                                                                                        > > regular
                                                                                                                                                        > > > water changes and a
                                                                                                                                                        > > > diatom filter.
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                        > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:53 PM
                                                                                                                                                        > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > in verey day aquarium use, it is used to clarify
                                                                                                                                                        > > the
                                                                                                                                                        > > > water and deodorize the tank. of course it
                                                                                                                                                        > should
                                                                                                                                                        > > > be
                                                                                                                                                        > > > replaced after absorbing meds and chemicals, but
                                                                                                                                                        > > for
                                                                                                                                                        > > > odor and clarity use in a stable aquarium it is
                                                                                                                                                        > 30
                                                                                                                                                        > > > days
                                                                                                                                                        > > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > As I mentioned a bit earlier to Rachel, in
                                                                                                                                                        > > another
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > thread, carbon should
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > only be used in specific instances where
                                                                                                                                                        > > chemical
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > filtration may be
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > warranted. There is no real way to judge when
                                                                                                                                                        > > the
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > efficacy of the carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > filter drops to an unacceptable level. It
                                                                                                                                                        > > depends
                                                                                                                                                        > > > on
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > the amount of carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > being used along with the load of chemicals it
                                                                                                                                                        > > is
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > being asked to remove. In
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > some cases, one day may be more than it takes,
                                                                                                                                                        > > > while
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > in others, the three
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > months you mention may well be within its
                                                                                                                                                        > > limits.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Contrary to what Paul has stated, once the
                                                                                                                                                        > > carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > has been used up, i.e.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > captured all the molecules it can, it has been
                                                                                                                                                        > > > shown
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > that it will release
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > these molecules, sometimes in a toxic
                                                                                                                                                        > > combination
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > with other molecules, and
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > it will not serve as a biological filter.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > With the light load you have in your tank, I'd
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > suggest removing the carbon
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > and replacing it with ceramic rings, or
                                                                                                                                                        > another
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > material that can serve as a
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > biological filter for your tank. Regular water
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > changes should suffice to
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > handle the removal of chemicals that may be
                                                                                                                                                        > > > harmful
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > to your fish.
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 12:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > I have a HOT Magnum canister filter which uses
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > carbon and a sponge sleeve in
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > the filter. Is that ok? The guy I got the
                                                                                                                                                        > tank
                                                                                                                                                        > > > and
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > stuff from told me to
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > change the carbon every 3 months, but that he
                                                                                                                                                        > > > hadn't
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > changed it recently. I
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > rinse the sponge sleeve monthly, when should I
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > change the carbon?
                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Angela
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        === message truncated ===


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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10868 From: paul helms Date: 4/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: why pH test kits should require licenses
                                                                                                                                                        really? who is that? lol. i would be down, the
                                                                                                                                                        comical aquarium guide....keep it simple stupid. lmao
                                                                                                                                                        --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                                        <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > There are those who say you and I should write a
                                                                                                                                                        > book together. I think it
                                                                                                                                                        > would be the funniest book ever.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                        > guess you don't understand the concept of
                                                                                                                                                        > sarcasm....and by the way, i would buy a book by pat
                                                                                                                                                        > any day, just for his funny ass way of putting things!

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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10869 From: Nan Date: 4/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Dead Tank?
                                                                                                                                                        Thank you, Ray.  I wasn't sure if it could be the gravel.  Since it was brand new, ect...and I cleaned it well before even putting it in...however, I was thinking it might be a source of the problem, since I had previously used the tank as a green water tank for fry.  I was wondering, not that it matters alot if it does, do you think the bleach solution will change the color of the rocks?  I am going to do it none  the less.   And between you, me and the others....I put the tank outside because I got so frustrated with it, if I saw it again too soon I might have done something ugly to it...*grrrrrr*LOL*  Feeling better about it now...
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        Have a great one!  And Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        ~nan~

                                                                                                                                                        Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        Nan,  Did not realize these were your guppies, which should then not
                                                                                                                                                        have been a problem unless you were doing too much inbreeding with
                                                                                                                                                        them, but then this same problem would have shown up in your larger
                                                                                                                                                        (35 gallon) tank if you have the same type guppies in there.  Could
                                                                                                                                                        be any one of (or a combination of) any of the first three
                                                                                                                                                        possibilities you've described.  I think the best way to procede is
                                                                                                                                                        through the process of elimination.  I would like to point out that
                                                                                                                                                        putting the tank outside in the rain and sun is not going to do
                                                                                                                                                        anything, especially if there is a latent disease clinging to the
                                                                                                                                                        inside surfaces or if any part of the tank was re-sealed with the
                                                                                                                                                        wrong type of sealant.  First thing to do is fill the tank to the
                                                                                                                                                        brim, adding 1/4 to 1/2 cup of Clorox and let it sit overnight, after
                                                                                                                                                        which time drain and rinse out THOROUGHLY.  Now set the bare tank up
                                                                                                                                                        and fill with water from the 35 (all 10 gallons).  This will
                                                                                                                                                        eliminate any possibility that the problem is in newly drawn water. 
                                                                                                                                                        Introduce fish (with an airstone in tank if you prefer -- but no
                                                                                                                                                        filter)  and see what happens.  If they die its obviously something
                                                                                                                                                        wrong with the tank itself, like the wrong sealant.  If all goes
                                                                                                                                                        okay, add the Spectra Stone gravel, after soaking it in a similar
                                                                                                                                                        Colorox solution and rinsing it WELL, or boiling it.  If the fish
                                                                                                                                                        die, you know there's something toxic with the gravel.  If all is
                                                                                                                                                        okay, but you still don't know what went wrong last time (and you
                                                                                                                                                        definitely want to try to find out), hold out some of the gravel,
                                                                                                                                                        without giving it the Clorox soak (or boiling it), and add that to
                                                                                                                                                        the tank.  If the fish die now, there had to be some disease in the
                                                                                                                                                        gravel.  If all's well with the fish after the tank - gravel
                                                                                                                                                        combination, add the sponge filter and see what happens.  It may be
                                                                                                                                                        toxic (remote possibility) or it may have a disease hiding in it. 
                                                                                                                                                        You could either put it in as is, or you could boil it first (the
                                                                                                                                                        Clorox route is not too kind to this material).  There's really
                                                                                                                                                        nothing else to suspect, unless it was the new di-chlorinator (TLC)
                                                                                                                                                        or biological starter.  I doubt if it was the stress coat, but I'm
                                                                                                                                                        looking for anything.  These steps have got to solve the problem one
                                                                                                                                                        way or the other.  One more thing -- there are some brands of airline
                                                                                                                                                        tubing out there known to give off toxins (when new)!  Ray          
                                                                                                                                                        \                                                                    

                                                                                                                                                        __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10870 From: Nan Date: 4/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: why pH test kits should require licenses
                                                                                                                                                        Ok, I have listened to all of you banter this whole testing thing around and now I am gonna tell ya all that I have never, ever tested my tanks with any kind of ph, Nitrate, etc...kit.  I have had one bad tank, which I am working with now.   My formula for success....simple common sense!  I add dechlorinator, I rinse anything I put in, I use aquarium salt (no other kind!), I do a 25% to 100% (jarred Bettas) water change every other week, and I have plants in almost every single tank I have.    OH, and I HAVE  A FILTER WITH CARBON IN IT THAT I CHANGE EVERY 2 WEEKS...*LOL*.......I also have one steadfast simple rule:   Just because it works for you, doesn't mean it works for me.  So it I think it will work I give it a shot, the first sign of it going bad, I go back to what works for me.  And me being such a critter softie, it my critters aren't happy, then I am not happy..*grin* 
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        I read every email/post that comes thru my mailbox concerning this group and I have to say that every night that I sit to read I am greatly amused by the ongoing debates, so keep up the great works guys!!!

                                                                                                                                                        ~nan~

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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10871 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 4/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
                                                                                                                                                        sounds like the only things you'd need to add are the live rock - at least 55 lbs of it - and the live sand. and of course the fish & cleaners! 
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        i'm not an expert on tangs but from what i've heard 55 gallons might not be enough room for more than maybe 1 tang, depending upon what type of tang you're interested in getting. but you can definitely get some interesting fish in a 55 gallon.
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        good luck and let us know how it goes!
                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        bethym99 <bmetcalf@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        I am researching marine tank setups and trying to decide what to
                                                                                                                                                        purchase. Boy, there are alot of options!  We are hoping to start a
                                                                                                                                                        tank that can house some marine fish (clowns, tangs, etc) and some
                                                                                                                                                        invertebrates. This setup is available from someone in town and I
                                                                                                                                                        wanted to share the setup and see if any fellow marine hobbyists
                                                                                                                                                        have any feedback on it, what other questions should I be asking?
                                                                                                                                                        The LFS owner said it was a 'great deal' (and he's not selling it to
                                                                                                                                                        me).

                                                                                                                                                        Thank you! I hope to learn alot from this group so our start in this
                                                                                                                                                        hobby is a successful one :-)

                                                                                                                                                        55 gallon tank 48"x12"x12"
                                                                                                                                                        All glass tank and stand (Black)
                                                                                                                                                        Lunar Light with Moon Light
                                                                                                                                                        Heater
                                                                                                                                                        60 Series Eco System Hang off the back
                                                                                                                                                        Live Sand
                                                                                                                                                        Aroma Protein Skimmer
                                                                                                                                                        2 Timer
                                                                                                                                                        2 Power Strips
                                                                                                                                                        2 Power Heads
                                                                                                                                                        With one wave maker
                                                                                                                                                        upgraded pump on eco system
                                                                                                                                                        can filter

                                                                                                                                                        Selling it for $650





                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                                                        I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10872 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: pleco
                                                                                                                                                        Most plecos can tolerate  a wide range of temperatures.   I have seen common chocolate plecos in 60 degree water, and i have seen them in 80 degree watr.
                                                                                                                                                        As long as the pleco is slowly adjusted to the lower water temp he/she should be fine. Just don't drop him from 75*- into 60* water .

                                                                                                                                                        as far as goldfish a some people keep plecos in unheated tanks with goldfish. In a 20 gallon tank you might be able to keep a few goldfish as long as the goldfish species doesn't get too big. Some goldfish get over a foot long so becareful..

                                                                                                                                                        pleco= poopie / goldfish = poopie so provide a lot of waterchanges and good filteration....

                                                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                                                        Indiana
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10873 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Filter Question
                                                                                                                                                        tammy,
                                                                                                                                                        Do you rinse your charcoal filter under tap water before adding it to your tank? If you rinse the filter under tap water before adding them to your tank the charcoal shouldn't leech into your tank. If it is still leeching into your tank maybe the Pads are getting ripped or torn somehow when you are putting them in the filter?

                                                                                                                                                        You don't really need to change the filter pad every few weeks, just rinse the one you have off and reuse it. The charcoal in the pads really isn't needed. Whats needed is the Good bacteria growing on the pads.
                                                                                                                                                        I have replaced most of my Charcoal pads with sponges.. The aquaclear mini  replacement sponges fit nicely down inside most Aqua Tech products and is so much cheaper to replace.

                                                                                                                                                        Rob
                                                                                                                                                        Indiana


                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 4/30/2005 5:43:09 PM US Eastern Standard Time, wolf1@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                        I have an Aqua-Tech 10-20. I have been noticing that the filter system
                                                                                                                                                        is putting charcal in my tank. My water is coming out of the tank is
                                                                                                                                                        blue and in the bucket it is blue black color. I have been changing
                                                                                                                                                        the filter every 2-3 weeks. Why is it putting so much charcal into the
                                                                                                                                                        tank and how do I correct it?

                                                                                                                                                        Tammy


                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10874 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Dead Tank?
                                                                                                                                                        Since the gravel is brand new, it obviously can't be causing a
                                                                                                                                                        disease, but there could be something in it that's toxic. In that
                                                                                                                                                        case, bleach won't do anything about that problem. As for whether
                                                                                                                                                        bleach will change the color of the gravel; no, not if the gravel is
                                                                                                                                                        naturally that color. Most colored gravel though is artificially
                                                                                                                                                        colored and that may fade with bleach -- not sure if its somehow
                                                                                                                                                        painted or what. There used to be a company named "Estees"
                                                                                                                                                        (spelling?) which produced colored gravel for the aquarium trade
                                                                                                                                                        which was/is 100% safe. Don't know if they're still around anymore.
                                                                                                                                                        Other brands, I'm not familiar with so can't say how safe one way or
                                                                                                                                                        the other, but its something to keep in mind (about it being toxic),
                                                                                                                                                        since by your description (unless I'm wrong), these fish never lasted
                                                                                                                                                        very long -- usually a disease lingers for a few days at least. Ray
                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > Thank you, Ray. I wasn't sure if it could be the gravel. Since it
                                                                                                                                                        was brand new, ect...and I cleaned it well before even putting it
                                                                                                                                                        in...however, I was thinking it might be a source of the problem,
                                                                                                                                                        since I had previously used the tank as a green water tank for fry.
                                                                                                                                                        I was wondering, not that it matters alot if it does, do you think
                                                                                                                                                        the bleach solution will change the color of the rocks? I am going
                                                                                                                                                        to do it none the less. And between you, me and the others....I
                                                                                                                                                        put the tank outside because I got so frustrated with it, if I saw it
                                                                                                                                                        again too soon I might have done something ugly to
                                                                                                                                                        it...*grrrrrr*LOL* Feeling better about it now...
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Have a great one! And Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > ~nan~
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > Nan, Did not realize these were your guppies, which should then
                                                                                                                                                        not
                                                                                                                                                        > have been a problem unless you were doing too much inbreeding with
                                                                                                                                                        > them, but then this same problem would have shown up in your larger
                                                                                                                                                        > (35 gallon) tank if you have the same type guppies in there. Could
                                                                                                                                                        > be any one of (or a combination of) any of the first three
                                                                                                                                                        > possibilities you've described. I think the best way to procede is
                                                                                                                                                        > through the process of elimination. I would like to point out that
                                                                                                                                                        > putting the tank outside in the rain and sun is not going to do
                                                                                                                                                        > anything, especially if there is a latent disease clinging to the
                                                                                                                                                        > inside surfaces or if any part of the tank was re-sealed with the
                                                                                                                                                        > wrong type of sealant. First thing to do is fill the tank to the
                                                                                                                                                        > brim, adding 1/4 to 1/2 cup of Clorox and let it sit overnight,
                                                                                                                                                        after
                                                                                                                                                        > which time drain and rinse out THOROUGHLY. Now set the bare tank
                                                                                                                                                        up
                                                                                                                                                        > and fill with water from the 35 (all 10 gallons). This will
                                                                                                                                                        > eliminate any possibility that the problem is in newly drawn
                                                                                                                                                        water.
                                                                                                                                                        > Introduce fish (with an airstone in tank if you prefer -- but no
                                                                                                                                                        > filter) and see what happens. If they die its obviously something
                                                                                                                                                        > wrong with the tank itself, like the wrong sealant. If all goes
                                                                                                                                                        > okay, add the Spectra Stone gravel, after soaking it in a similar
                                                                                                                                                        > Colorox solution and rinsing it WELL, or boiling it. If the fish
                                                                                                                                                        > die, you know there's something toxic with the gravel. If all is
                                                                                                                                                        > okay, but you still don't know what went wrong last time (and you
                                                                                                                                                        > definitely want to try to find out), hold out some of the gravel,
                                                                                                                                                        > without giving it the Clorox soak (or boiling it), and add that to
                                                                                                                                                        > the tank. If the fish die now, there had to be some disease in the
                                                                                                                                                        > gravel. If all's well with the fish after the tank - gravel
                                                                                                                                                        > combination, add the sponge filter and see what happens. It may be
                                                                                                                                                        > toxic (remote possibility) or it may have a disease hiding in it.
                                                                                                                                                        > You could either put it in as is, or you could boil it first (the
                                                                                                                                                        > Clorox route is not too kind to this material). There's really
                                                                                                                                                        > nothing else to suspect, unless it was the new di-chlorinator (TLC)
                                                                                                                                                        > or biological starter. I doubt if it was the stress coat, but I'm
                                                                                                                                                        > looking for anything. These steps have got to solve the problem
                                                                                                                                                        one
                                                                                                                                                        > way or the other. One more thing -- there are some brands of
                                                                                                                                                        airline
                                                                                                                                                        > tubing out there known to give off toxins (when new)!
                                                                                                                                                        Ray
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                        > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                                        > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10875 From: paul helms Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Dead Tank?
                                                                                                                                                        estees is definately stil around
                                                                                                                                                        --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                        > Since the gravel is brand new, it obviously can't be
                                                                                                                                                        > causing a
                                                                                                                                                        > disease, but there could be something in it that's
                                                                                                                                                        > toxic. In that
                                                                                                                                                        > case, bleach won't do anything about that problem.
                                                                                                                                                        > As for whether
                                                                                                                                                        > bleach will change the color of the gravel; no, not
                                                                                                                                                        > if the gravel is
                                                                                                                                                        > naturally that color. Most colored gravel though is
                                                                                                                                                        > artificially
                                                                                                                                                        > colored and that may fade with bleach -- not sure if
                                                                                                                                                        > its somehow
                                                                                                                                                        > painted or what. There used to be a company named
                                                                                                                                                        > "Estees"
                                                                                                                                                        > (spelling?) which produced colored gravel for the
                                                                                                                                                        > aquarium trade
                                                                                                                                                        > which was/is 100% safe. Don't know if they're still
                                                                                                                                                        > around anymore.
                                                                                                                                                        > Other brands, I'm not familiar with so can't say how
                                                                                                                                                        > safe one way or
                                                                                                                                                        > the other, but its something to keep in mind (about
                                                                                                                                                        > it being toxic),
                                                                                                                                                        > since by your description (unless I'm wrong), these
                                                                                                                                                        > fish never lasted
                                                                                                                                                        > very long -- usually a disease lingers for a few
                                                                                                                                                        > days at least. Ray
                                                                                                                                                        > \
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan
                                                                                                                                                        > <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > > Thank you, Ray. I wasn't sure if it could be the
                                                                                                                                                        > gravel. Since it
                                                                                                                                                        > was brand new, ect...and I cleaned it well before
                                                                                                                                                        > even putting it
                                                                                                                                                        > in...however, I was thinking it might be a source of
                                                                                                                                                        > the problem,
                                                                                                                                                        > since I had previously used the tank as a green
                                                                                                                                                        > water tank for fry.
                                                                                                                                                        > I was wondering, not that it matters alot if it
                                                                                                                                                        > does, do you think
                                                                                                                                                        > the bleach solution will change the color of the
                                                                                                                                                        > rocks? I am going
                                                                                                                                                        > to do it none the less. And between you, me and
                                                                                                                                                        > the others....I
                                                                                                                                                        > put the tank outside because I got so frustrated
                                                                                                                                                        > with it, if I saw it
                                                                                                                                                        > again too soon I might have done something ugly to
                                                                                                                                                        > it...*grrrrrr*LOL* Feeling better about it now...
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > Have a great one! And Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > ~nan~
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > > Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        > > Nan, Did not realize these were your guppies,
                                                                                                                                                        > which should then
                                                                                                                                                        > not
                                                                                                                                                        > > have been a problem unless you were doing too much
                                                                                                                                                        > inbreeding with
                                                                                                                                                        > > them, but then this same problem would have shown
                                                                                                                                                        > up in your larger
                                                                                                                                                        > > (35 gallon) tank if you have the same type guppies
                                                                                                                                                        > in there. Could
                                                                                                                                                        > > be any one of (or a combination of) any of the
                                                                                                                                                        > first three
                                                                                                                                                        > > possibilities you've described. I think the best
                                                                                                                                                        > way to procede is
                                                                                                                                                        > > through the process of elimination. I would like
                                                                                                                                                        > to point out that
                                                                                                                                                        > > putting the tank outside in the rain and sun is
                                                                                                                                                        > not going to do
                                                                                                                                                        > > anything, especially if there is a latent disease
                                                                                                                                                        > clinging to the
                                                                                                                                                        > > inside surfaces or if any part of the tank was
                                                                                                                                                        > re-sealed with the
                                                                                                                                                        > > wrong type of sealant. First thing to do is fill
                                                                                                                                                        > the tank to the
                                                                                                                                                        > > brim, adding 1/4 to 1/2 cup of Clorox and let it
                                                                                                                                                        > sit overnight,
                                                                                                                                                        > after
                                                                                                                                                        > > which time drain and rinse out THOROUGHLY. Now
                                                                                                                                                        > set the bare tank
                                                                                                                                                        > up
                                                                                                                                                        > > and fill with water from the 35 (all 10 gallons).
                                                                                                                                                        > This will
                                                                                                                                                        > > eliminate any possibility that the problem is in
                                                                                                                                                        > newly drawn
                                                                                                                                                        > water.
                                                                                                                                                        > > Introduce fish (with an airstone in tank if you
                                                                                                                                                        > prefer -- but no
                                                                                                                                                        > > filter) and see what happens. If they die its
                                                                                                                                                        > obviously something
                                                                                                                                                        > > wrong with the tank itself, like the wrong
                                                                                                                                                        > sealant. If all goes
                                                                                                                                                        > > okay, add the Spectra Stone gravel, after soaking
                                                                                                                                                        > it in a similar
                                                                                                                                                        > > Colorox solution and rinsing it WELL, or boiling
                                                                                                                                                        > it. If the fish
                                                                                                                                                        > > die, you know there's something toxic with the
                                                                                                                                                        > gravel. If all is
                                                                                                                                                        > > okay, but you still don't know what went wrong
                                                                                                                                                        > last time (and you
                                                                                                                                                        > > definitely want to try to find out), hold out some
                                                                                                                                                        > of the gravel,
                                                                                                                                                        > > without giving it the Clorox soak (or boiling it),
                                                                                                                                                        > and add that to
                                                                                                                                                        > > the tank. If the fish die now, there had to be
                                                                                                                                                        > some disease in the
                                                                                                                                                        > > gravel. If all's well with the fish after the
                                                                                                                                                        > tank - gravel
                                                                                                                                                        > > combination, add the sponge filter and see what
                                                                                                                                                        > happens. It may be
                                                                                                                                                        > > toxic (remote possibility) or it may have a
                                                                                                                                                        > disease hiding in it.
                                                                                                                                                        > > You could either put it in as is, or you could
                                                                                                                                                        > boil it first (the
                                                                                                                                                        > > Clorox route is not too kind to this material).
                                                                                                                                                        > There's really
                                                                                                                                                        > > nothing else to suspect, unless it was the new
                                                                                                                                                        > di-chlorinator (TLC)
                                                                                                                                                        > > or biological starter. I doubt if it was the
                                                                                                                                                        > stress coat, but I'm
                                                                                                                                                        > > looking for anything. These steps have got to
                                                                                                                                                        > solve the problem
                                                                                                                                                        > one
                                                                                                                                                        > > way or the other. One more thing -- there are
                                                                                                                                                        > some brands of
                                                                                                                                                        > airline
                                                                                                                                                        > > tubing out there known to give off toxins (when
                                                                                                                                                        > new)!
                                                                                                                                                        > Ray
                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                        > \
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                        > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                        > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                                                                                                                                                        > protection around
                                                                                                                                                        > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                                                        __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10876 From: Nan Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Dead Tank?
                                                                                                                                                        Yep, they didn't last more than 8 hours in the tank.  Well, I have different rock now, I am going to use that rock and see what happens after I do the bleach treatment.  Thanks for everyones help!!!
                                                                                                                                                        ~nan~

                                                                                                                                                        Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        Since the gravel is brand new, it obviously can't be causing a
                                                                                                                                                        disease, but there could be something in it that's toxic.  In that
                                                                                                                                                        case, bleach won't do anything about that problem.  As for whether
                                                                                                                                                        bleach will change the color of the gravel; no, not if the gravel is
                                                                                                                                                        naturally that color.  Most colored gravel though is artificially
                                                                                                                                                        colored and that may fade with bleach -- not sure if its somehow
                                                                                                                                                        painted or what.  There used to be a company named "Estees"
                                                                                                                                                        (spelling?) which produced colored gravel for the aquarium trade
                                                                                                                                                        which was/is 100% safe.  Don't know if they're still around anymore. 
                                                                                                                                                        Other brands, I'm not familiar with so can't say how safe one way or
                                                                                                                                                        the other, but its something to keep in mind (about it being toxic),
                                                                                                                                                        since by your description (unless I'm wrong), these fish never lasted
                                                                                                                                                        very long -- usually a disease lingers for a few days at least.  Ray
                                                                                                                                                        \                                                                    


                                                                                                                                                        ~nan and crew~
                                                                                                                                                        Rome, GA
                                                                                                                                                        bettas and soon we add guppys!

                                                                                                                                                        __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                        Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                                        http://mail.yahoo.com

                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10877 From: helen572 Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Sick platy?
                                                                                                                                                        Got a high-fin female platy three days ago - put her in with two other
                                                                                                                                                        females and a pleco in a ten-gallon tank. She seemed fine for two
                                                                                                                                                        days - swimming around with the other two and eating. But today,
                                                                                                                                                        she's been virtually motionless. She came to the surface for food
                                                                                                                                                        this morning, but otherwise, she's just sitting on the gravel,
                                                                                                                                                        occasionally moving to a dfferent spot. Spouse isn't concerned, but I
                                                                                                                                                        say that it isn't a good sign for any fish to be sitting still on the
                                                                                                                                                        bottom of the tank that long.
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10878 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: ER!

                                                                                                                                                        Fish has a rock stuck his mouth.  I can see it and he is hacking, has been for hours.  Should I use tweezers?

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        Have kids stuff?  Clothing?  Furniture? Baby things?  Check out Zainy Zebra Consignment!  www.ZainyZebra.com

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        There is also a Little Rock Garage Sale!

                                                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10879 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: ER taken care of =)

                                                                                                                                                        My husband got this tool used to get hooks out of fish and was able to get it out.  =)

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        Have kids stuff?  Clothing?  Furniture? Baby things?  Check out Zainy Zebra Consignment!  www.ZainyZebra.com

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        There is also a Little Rock Garage Sale!

                                                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10880 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: ER taken care of =)
                                                                                                                                                        wow that sounds odd what kind of fish was it.. I have some Killifish that insist on eating whole shrimp pellets which I so fear they will choke I try and make them as small as I can but I still fear they will choke but eventually they will dissipate anyhow how did a rock get in his mouth.. Shannon
                                                                                                                                                        My husband got this tool used to get hooks out of fish and was able to get it out.  =)
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10881 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Sick platy?


                                                                                                                                                        If her belly swollen, she is pregnant and probally due within a few hours or maybe a day. She will go to the most secure location away from all the other fish to hopefully have her babies..
                                                                                                                                                        This could be ONE cause for her new activity level...


                                                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                                                        Indiana


                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/1/2005 2:50:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time, shirleycat@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                        Got a high-fin female platy three days ago - put her in with two other
                                                                                                                                                        females and a pleco in a ten-gallon tank.  She seemed fine for two
                                                                                                                                                        days - swimming around with the other two and eating.  But today,
                                                                                                                                                        she's been virtually motionless.  She came to the surface for food
                                                                                                                                                        this morning, but otherwise, she's just sitting on the gravel,
                                                                                                                                                        occasionally moving to a dfferent spot. Spouse isn't concerned, but I
                                                                                                                                                        say that it isn't a good sign for any fish to be sitting still on the
                                                                                                                                                        bottom of the tank that long. 


                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10882 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: ER taken care of =)

                                                                                                                                                        He’s a problematic Blood Parrot.  He sucks rocks and then spits them out to another location.  He digs himself a whole to go to under the larger rocks.  =) He’s a goof.  I just hope we didn’t traumatize him too much.  I don’t guess we did, as he has resumed sucking the rocks! =) 

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        Have kids stuff?  Clothing?  Furniture? Baby things?  Check out Zainy Zebra Consignment!  www.ZainyZebra.com

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        There is also a Little Rock Garage Sale!

                                                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of agentscullyeyore@...
                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 5:03 PM
                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ER taken care of =)

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        wow that sounds odd what kind of fish was it.. I have some Killifish that insist on eating whole shrimp pellets which I so fear they will choke I try and make them as small as I can but I still fear they will choke but eventually they will dissipate anyhow how did a rock get in his mouth.. Shannon

                                                                                                                                                        My husband got this tool used to get hooks out of fish and was able to get it out.  =)

                                                                                                                                                         



                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10883 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: ER taken care of =) ( diggin)
                                                                                                                                                        90% of cichlids  spit  sand/gravel. Sounds like he/she is digging a spawning sight, or trying to dig a cave to get away from the other fish.

                                                                                                                                                        We had a 13" Oscar die about 2 years ago. Friend Autopsied him and found about a handful of gravel in his stomache..

                                                                                                                                                        My africans are always spitting sand  from one spot to the next. South and Central American cichlids all do the same thing. Some cichlids " Earth Eaters" feed this way.
                                                                                                                                                        besides having Aggressive natures they also dig one of the intresting things about cichlids...

                                                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                                                        Indiana





                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/1/2005 5:11:46 PM US Eastern Standard Time, amjmail@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                        He’s a problematic Blood Parrot.  He sucks rocks and then spits them out to another location.  He digs himself a whole to go to under the larger rocks.  =) He’s a goof.  I just hope we didn’t traumatize him too much.  I don’t guess we did, as he has resumed sucking the rocks! =) 


                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10884 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: ER taken care of =) ( diggin)

                                                                                                                                                        He isn’t digging a spawning site unless he’s been spawning for months on end.  Which they might, I don’t know for sure.  But they both do it.  I moved this bully to a separate tank and he’s making himself a home I guess.  He also spits rocks when it’s feeding time.

                                                                                                                                                        Wierdo

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        Have kids stuff?  Clothing?  Furniture? Baby things?  Check out Zainy Zebra Consignment!  www.ZainyZebra.com

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        There is also a Little Rock Garage Sale!

                                                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 5:24 PM
                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] ER taken care of =) ( diggin)

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        90% of cichlids  spit  sand/gravel. Sounds like he/she is digging a spawning sight, or trying to dig a cave to get away from the other fish.

                                                                                                                                                        We had a 13" Oscar die about 2 years ago. Friend Autopsied him and found about a handful of gravel in his stomache..

                                                                                                                                                        My africans are always spitting sand  from one spot to the next. South and Central American cichlids all do the same thing. Some cichlids " Earth Eaters" feed this way.
                                                                                                                                                        besides having Aggressive natures they also dig one of the intresting things about cichlids...

                                                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                                                        Indiana





                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/1/2005 5:11:46 PM US Eastern Standard Time, amjmail@... writes:



                                                                                                                                                        He’s a problematic Blood Parrot.  He sucks rocks and then spits them out to another location.  He digs himself a whole to go to under the larger rocks.  =) He’s a goof.  I just hope we didn’t traumatize him too much.  I don’t guess we did, as he has resumed sucking the rocks! =) 





                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10885 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: rob ( diggin)

                                                                                                                                                        Whoops!  I meant the fish is a weirdo, not you ROB! Lol  I Hope you didn’t take it that way.  ;) 

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        Have kids stuff?  Clothing?  Furniture? Baby things?  Check out Zainy Zebra Consignment!  www.ZainyZebra.com

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        There is also a Little Rock Garage Sale!

                                                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 5:24 PM
                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] ER taken care of =) ( diggin)

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        90% of cichlids  spit  sand/gravel. Sounds like he/she is digging a spawning sight, or trying to dig a cave to get away from the other fish.

                                                                                                                                                        We had a 13" Oscar die about 2 years ago. Friend Autopsied him and found about a handful of gravel in his stomache..

                                                                                                                                                        My africans are always spitting sand  from one spot to the next. South and Central American cichlids all do the same thing. Some cichlids " Earth Eaters" feed this way.
                                                                                                                                                        besides having Aggressive natures they also dig one of the intresting things about cichlids...

                                                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                                                        Indiana





                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/1/2005 5:11:46 PM US Eastern Standard Time, amjmail@... writes:



                                                                                                                                                        He’s a problematic Blood Parrot.  He sucks rocks and then spits them out to another location.  He digs himself a whole to go to under the larger rocks.  =) He’s a goof.  I just hope we didn’t traumatize him too much.  I don’t guess we did, as he has resumed sucking the rocks! =) 





                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10886 From: fuzzybpebble Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Plants!
                                                                                                                                                        I know that golden Pathos will grow in any enviroment and is not toxic
                                                                                                                                                        to fish. I have also heard that Horn wart is good. Also
                                                                                                                                                        Philodendrons (theses are poisoinous to humans, kids and other pets)

                                                                                                                                                        That is what I know.

                                                                                                                                                        Bethany
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10887 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: rob ( diggin)
                                                                                                                                                        LMAO  !!  calling me a weirdo.. Geeze ...
                                                                                                                                                        Most cichlids dig , its part of establishing territory. He is probally trying to hide himself.  If you have a decoration he can get under he will dig all the gravel or sand out from underneath it. Makes him feel more secure.

                                                                                                                                                        I'm weird, as I like letting my Firemouth Male dig all the gravel out from under the driftwood, then i reach in and put the driftwood ontop of the pile of gravel..

                                                                                                                                                        Makes him mad as hell but it keeps him occupied...
                                                                                                                                                        a bored fish is a terrible thing. makes for a bored fish keeper  LOL

                                                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                                                        "crusher"
                                                                                                                                                        "weirdo" what other nicknames can I get this weekend?





                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/1/2005 5:30:54 PM US Eastern Standard Time, amjmail@... writes:



                                                                                                                                                        Whoops!  I meant the fish is a weirdo, not you ROB! Lol  I Hope you didn’t take it that way.  ;) 






                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10888 From: fuzzybpebble Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: My guppies
                                                                                                                                                        As you may all know I have 6 adult guppies and two baby (2.5 week)
                                                                                                                                                        guppies. Well today I noticed that 3 of my adults look pregnant and
                                                                                                                                                        ready to drop. So I now have 5 tanks going. One for each girl that
                                                                                                                                                        is pregnant, on for the other group, and one for my Male Betta. I
                                                                                                                                                        keep Betta separate, because I do not want to have fights or eating of
                                                                                                                                                        my fish.

                                                                                                                                                        I maybe getting more babies when the mothers have the offspring.
                                                                                                                                                        These more babies will be the offspring. I am looking forward to that.

                                                                                                                                                        Just thought I would drop a note.

                                                                                                                                                        Bethany
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10889 From: harry perry Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: My guppies/To Bethany
                                                                                                                                                        Dear Bethany,
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        Glad to see "fuzzypebble" in my mail at Aquatic Life. 5 tanks!!!! you've come a long way. Keep us posted about your babies.
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        Harry

                                                                                                                                                        fuzzybpebble <fuzzybpebble@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        As you may all know I have 6 adult guppies and two baby (2.5 week)
                                                                                                                                                        guppies.  Well today I noticed that 3 of my adults look pregnant and
                                                                                                                                                        ready to drop.  So I now have 5 tanks going.  One for each girl that
                                                                                                                                                        is pregnant, on for the other group, and one for my Male Betta.  I
                                                                                                                                                        keep Betta separate, because I do not want to have fights or eating of
                                                                                                                                                        my fish. 

                                                                                                                                                        I maybe getting more babies when the mothers have the offspring. 
                                                                                                                                                        These more babies will be the offspring.  I am looking forward to that.

                                                                                                                                                        Just thought I would drop a note.

                                                                                                                                                        Bethany





                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                        __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10890 From: fuzzybpebble Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: My guppies/To Bethany
                                                                                                                                                        Harry, This is what the 5 tanks consist of. a 10 gallon, a goldfish
                                                                                                                                                        bowl, a Mayonasis jar, a Betta bowl and a Betta tank.

                                                                                                                                                        Female guppies in the gold, mayonase and betta bowl. Betta in his
                                                                                                                                                        tank and the others in the 10. Including the two 2.5 weekers

                                                                                                                                                        Thank you.

                                                                                                                                                        Bethany

                                                                                                                                                        Ps. Reason for the separate tanks for the girls is that I do not want
                                                                                                                                                        the babies eaten by the other fish.

                                                                                                                                                        Bethany
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10891 From: harry perry Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: My guppies/To Bethany/again
                                                                                                                                                        The most important thing is you have the right attitude. I am a member of every fish group I could find. Folks from around the world keeping fish anyway they can. Jars, cans, tubs. It doesn't matter. What matters is they love there fish and they will always find a a way.
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        Harry  

                                                                                                                                                        fuzzybpebble <fuzzybpebble@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                        Harry, This is what the 5 tanks consist of.  a 10 gallon, a goldfish
                                                                                                                                                        bowl, a Mayonasis jar, a Betta bowl and a Betta tank.

                                                                                                                                                        Female guppies in the gold, mayonase and betta bowl.  Betta in his
                                                                                                                                                        tank and the others in the 10. Including the two 2.5 weekers

                                                                                                                                                        Thank you.

                                                                                                                                                        Bethany

                                                                                                                                                        Ps.  Reason for the separate tanks for the girls is that I do not want
                                                                                                                                                        the babies eaten by the other fish.

                                                                                                                                                        Bethany





                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 10892 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: rob ( diggin)
                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :

                                                                                                                                                          Lol

                                                                                                                                                          Oh my gosh.  I can relate too well with that.  I currently have my obviously bored to death firemouth in a screen tank.  He gets his driftwood dugout set the way he likes and BAM!  Anyone who comes within 4 inches gets a major nipping.  He didn’t chill out so he went into the time out side of the tank.  I really don’t like that fish.  He’s too mean.  Then again, my big Blood Parrot is in the 15 gal for being a bully. If I had known these guys were going to be like my children, I would have found them other homes.  But they are mine now and that’s that. =) 

                                                                                                                                                          I did just set up a cave for the BP to hide.  Put in some plasty plants and he seems to enjoy it.  I took out the bubble wand things are much quieter in there.  I’ve attached a pic for fishy enjoyment.  =) Yes he needs more gravel.  I have some on the way.  He’s in front of our fridge and you’re seeing my magnets on the side. 

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Ciao’ for now my fellow weirdo. ;)

                                                                                                                                                          ~Leslie




                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10893 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: rob ( diggin)
                                                                                                                                                          thanks for the pic that is very cool.... he is a cutie.. Shannon:

                                                                                                                                                          Lol

                                                                                                                                                          Oh my gosh.  I can relate too well with that.  I currently have my obviously bored to death firemouth in a screen tank.  He gets his driftwood dugout set the way he likes and BAM!  Anyone who comes within 4 inches gets a major nipping.  He didn’t chill out so he went into the time out side of the tank.  I really don’t like that fish.  He’s too mean.  Then again, my big Blood Parrot is in the 15 gal for being a bully. If I had known these guys were going to be like my children, I would have found them other homes.  But they are mine now and that’s that. =) 

                                                                                                                                                          I did just set up a cave for the BP to hide.  Put in some plasty plants and he seems to enjoy it.  I took out the bubble wand things are much quieter in there.  I’ve attached a pic for fishy enjoyment.  =) Yes he needs more gravel.  I have some on the way.  He’s in front of our fridge and you’re seeing my magnets on the side. 

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Ciao’ for now my fellow weirdo. ;)

                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10894 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: question on guppies, danios, rosies and goldfish
                                                                                                                                                          Hi! I just found your group and I've been keeping aquariums for a few years now and looking for a bit of advice! 
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          I currently have a 10 gallon aquarium occupied by a bunch of guppies and 8 danios, and a 20 gal. with 4 goldfish. I recently bought a 55 gal. that I'm setting up for the goldfish, and I'll be moving the smaller fish to the 20 gallon.
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          I picked up a couple of rosy reds as "starter fish" for the new aquarium to get things going and be sure they are doing alright before I add my precious goldfish. I'd like to have the rosy reds cohabit with the goldfish because they both do well at cooler temperatures (no heater required) but I found that the salinity preferences are quite different. The tank currently has 1 tbsp/6 gal which is the amount of salt advised for goldfish. I don't want to kill the rosy reds already if i added too much salt.
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          I also found that danios have similar salt requirements to rosy reds, and I'm wondering if they might eventually do better in the large, unheated tank, and then I can concentrate the 20 gal. tank on the guppies. I'm also planning to adopt some mollies from a friend who's moving out of state, and those should do fine with the guppies.
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          So bascially, how can I modify the conditions so that goldfish and rosy reds will do fine together, and would the danios be better with the goldfish and rosies, or with the livebearers?
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                          Emily
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10895 From: bethym99 Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
                                                                                                                                                          Thanks! We're going tomorrow to look at the system.

                                                                                                                                                          How do I determine how much live rock I need? Why do you say 55g? --
                                                                                                                                                          how can you determine how much volume of water the live rock will
                                                                                                                                                          take up so you know how much water to change??

                                                                                                                                                          I think we'll be doing a combination of live rock/coral bone to keep
                                                                                                                                                          cost down. It already has a bed of live sand that has the bacteria
                                                                                                                                                          in it. Owner has kept it wet to ensure the sand stays healthy.

                                                                                                                                                          I'm thinking we'll only have one tang, depending. I'm just wanting
                                                                                                                                                          to get the tank setup and then concentrate on fishies. My LFS owner
                                                                                                                                                          is really awesome and the guy we'll probably get tank from works at
                                                                                                                                                          LFS and offered to help us set it all up here.


                                                                                                                                                          --- In AquaticLife...
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10896 From: alexnorton2004 Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: A colorful aquarium world on your screen!
                                                                                                                                                          For all lovers of the small nature: Aquarium Life Screensaver 3.0
                                                                                                                                                          [colorful slideshow]
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.altixsoft.com/aquariumlife.exe

                                                                                                                                                          The beautiful pics of fishes from an aquarium, colorful views of
                                                                                                                                                          algaes. Red and blue, golden and white, striped and spotted creations
                                                                                                                                                          will enchant your eyes. There is sound background.
                                                                                                                                                          Just transform your monitor in aquarium world!
                                                                                                                                                          HomePage: http://www.altixsoft.com/software-aquariumlife.htm

                                                                                                                                                          This screen saver contains 35 high-qualitative images. All pictures
                                                                                                                                                          in resolution 1024*768 pix. and High Color (24-bit). Saver is set to
                                                                                                                                                          automatically fit them to your own screen size.
                                                                                                                                                          Screenshot: http://www.altixsoft.com/aquarium/screenshot.jpg

                                                                                                                                                          General features:
                                                                                                                                                          ++ All images in resolution 1024 x 768 pixels
                                                                                                                                                          ++ Over 160 transition effects.

                                                                                                                                                          Download file: http://www.altixsoft.com/aquariumlife.exe [ 5.05MB ]


                                                                                                                                                          Enjoy!

                                                                                                                                                          --
                                                                                                                                                          ALTIX SOFT STUDIO
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.altixsoft.com


                                                                                                                                                          aquarium life screensaver, aquarium, aquarium fishes, undersea world,
                                                                                                                                                          fish, fishes, big and small fishes, decorative fishes, home nature,
                                                                                                                                                          aqualife, under water life, undersea pictures, undersea life,
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                                                                                                                                                          aquarium, aquarium images, aquarium algaes, aquarium vegetation,
                                                                                                                                                          screen saver, wallpaper, desktop, altix
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10897 From: paul helms Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: ER taken care of =)
                                                                                                                                                          that is what they do. lol
                                                                                                                                                          --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...>
                                                                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          > He's a problematic Blood Parrot. He sucks rocks and
                                                                                                                                                          > then spits them out
                                                                                                                                                          > to another location. He digs himself a whole to go
                                                                                                                                                          > to under the larger
                                                                                                                                                          > rocks. =) He's a goof. I just hope we didn't
                                                                                                                                                          > traumatize him too much.
                                                                                                                                                          > I don't guess we did, as he has resumed sucking the
                                                                                                                                                          > rocks! =)
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > Have kids stuff? Clothing? Furniture? Baby things?
                                                                                                                                                          > Check out Zainy
                                                                                                                                                          > Zebra Consignment! www.ZainyZebra.com
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join
                                                                                                                                                          > the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                          > Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > There is also a Little Rock Garage Sale!
                                                                                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                          > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                          > On Behalf Of agentscullyeyore@...
                                                                                                                                                          > Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 5:03 PM
                                                                                                                                                          > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ER taken care of =)
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > wow that sounds odd what kind of fish was it.. I
                                                                                                                                                          > have some Killifish
                                                                                                                                                          > that insist on eating whole shrimp pellets which I
                                                                                                                                                          > so fear they will
                                                                                                                                                          > choke I try and make them as small as I can but I
                                                                                                                                                          > still fear they will
                                                                                                                                                          > choke but eventually they will dissipate anyhow how
                                                                                                                                                          > did a rock get in
                                                                                                                                                          > his mouth.. Shannon
                                                                                                                                                          > My husband got this tool used to get hooks out of
                                                                                                                                                          > fish and was able to
                                                                                                                                                          > get it out. =)
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10898 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                          I've thought about writing this all day,. And finally decided that I
                                                                                                                                                          probably should.

                                                                                                                                                          Well, if you would like some credentials, I can start listing some of mine
                                                                                                                                                          here again.

                                                                                                                                                          My paternal grandmother kept fish, my father kept fish, and I keep fish.

                                                                                                                                                          I have been a member of a number of aquarium societies, currently I am a
                                                                                                                                                          member of the Worcester Aquarium Society and the Potomac Valley Aquarium
                                                                                                                                                          Society.

                                                                                                                                                          I am currently a life member of the American Cichlid Association., and have
                                                                                                                                                          been a member of other national and international groups. For the IBC
                                                                                                                                                          (International Betta Congress) I help develop the first publication on
                                                                                                                                                          various betta species other than _Betta splendens_.

                                                                                                                                                          I am a judge, certified by the Northeast Council of Aquarium Societies.

                                                                                                                                                          I have spoken on judging, ponds, preparing for a show, and other topics
                                                                                                                                                          before many aquarium groups. I have also helped train judges for the NEC,
                                                                                                                                                          both by giving classes, and supervising judges-in-training at various shows.

                                                                                                                                                          I help found and form FISHNET, now a part of petsforum.com, of which I am a
                                                                                                                                                          stockholder.

                                                                                                                                                          I have written for many aquarium society publications as well as national
                                                                                                                                                          magazines.

                                                                                                                                                          I know and speak with many of the people whose names you see mentioned in
                                                                                                                                                          various contexts within the hobby.

                                                                                                                                                          IOW, I've been around. I've done a lot of stuff. I've learned a lot of
                                                                                                                                                          stuff. I've done my share of stupid stuff and have, hopefully learned from
                                                                                                                                                          that. I've known the pain of losing very expensive fish (not to belittle
                                                                                                                                                          those who feel the pain of losing any fish [the difference between a novice
                                                                                                                                                          and an expert, it is said, is the cost of the fish they kill]), but I also
                                                                                                                                                          have experienced the joy of being able to breed and raise a great many fish,
                                                                                                                                                          both common and rare.

                                                                                                                                                          Everything that I say here is backed by experience, my own research and that
                                                                                                                                                          of others. Not everybody is right all the time, but backed by experience and
                                                                                                                                                          knowledge, one can lessen the chance of making errors.

                                                                                                                                                          In this current thread, not once have I said that one should not use carbon,
                                                                                                                                                          and when I use carbon, I refer to activated carbon. Indeed, I have pointed
                                                                                                                                                          out instances where carbon usage is very helpful, and possibly the only
                                                                                                                                                          thing that will suffice for a given set of circumstances. What I have been
                                                                                                                                                          pointing out is that the use of carbon, for the most part, is not necessary
                                                                                                                                                          so long as other criteria, such as water changes, are met. I have also
                                                                                                                                                          pointed out that if carbon is not properly used, it can be detrimental to
                                                                                                                                                          the health of your aquarium. There have been comments in this thread that
                                                                                                                                                          carbon is good for x number of days. Unless one knows what is in the water,
                                                                                                                                                          the amount of carbon being used, and the rate at which it is adsorbed by the
                                                                                                                                                          carbon, such declarations are really pretty useless. The adsorptive capacity
                                                                                                                                                          of carbon does diminish over time. Whether one should change it at a certain
                                                                                                                                                          point in the future is wholly dependent on a number of factors which will
                                                                                                                                                          vary from tank to tank. If I stated that one should change carbon every 7
                                                                                                                                                          days (one figure mentioned) or every thirty days (another figure mentioned),
                                                                                                                                                          I would be negligent if I did not also say that this has been my experience
                                                                                                                                                          and your mileage may vary.

                                                                                                                                                          If you will carefully read my posts, and not just skim over them, you will
                                                                                                                                                          notice that they are phrased with a great deal of hemming and hawing. That
                                                                                                                                                          is because I am very aware that what works for me may not work for another.
                                                                                                                                                          There is always some factor or a number of factors that are not accounted
                                                                                                                                                          for, not that they are left out purposely, but they may be left out
                                                                                                                                                          inadvertently or they may simply be unknown to us as even being a factor. If
                                                                                                                                                          I and all my buddies do something the same way, but many people perform that
                                                                                                                                                          task differently, and I do not mention how I perform it, maybe because I
                                                                                                                                                          think everyone does it this way, or because it seems to be irrelevant to the
                                                                                                                                                          topic at hand, I can steer a person down the wrong path, not because I mean
                                                                                                                                                          to but because I do not realize that I should be saying something a certain
                                                                                                                                                          way.

                                                                                                                                                          As easy as you and I might think it is, starting and maintaining an aquarium
                                                                                                                                                          is not the easiest thing in the world to do. It takes a lot of knowledge,
                                                                                                                                                          patience, and information along with some plain hard work to get it right
                                                                                                                                                          the first time and every time there after. Saying that the use of carbon is
                                                                                                                                                          mandated by the common books in the hobby is quite a bit different than
                                                                                                                                                          saying this is what carbon does and does not do. Here are some reasons to
                                                                                                                                                          use it and here are some reasons not to. Here are some ways to do what
                                                                                                                                                          carbon will do for you as well.

                                                                                                                                                          You claim to have been around for a while yourself. About one fifth the time
                                                                                                                                                          I have been doing this. You claim to even be in the industry, and have many
                                                                                                                                                          industry contacts. Well, by now you should have been around enough to know
                                                                                                                                                          that many books parrot one another, and what they say is not always so. If
                                                                                                                                                          you are in the industry, you probably have easier access to the research
                                                                                                                                                          than I do, I don't see a lot of it until long after it has been published.
                                                                                                                                                          If you do the reading, I'm sure you'll find a lot of what I say has its
                                                                                                                                                          basis in that research, tempered by my own experience.

                                                                                                                                                          You will also note that there are a lot of topics I do not become involved
                                                                                                                                                          in. Many times that is because there are already adequate answers to the
                                                                                                                                                          question. Other times it is because it involves a facet that I am not
                                                                                                                                                          interested in, or perhaps one that I am not up to date on. A good friend of
                                                                                                                                                          mine (you would immediately know the name were I to drop it) always wonders
                                                                                                                                                          when I will get up to speed on plants. Well, I do keep plants, and I keep
                                                                                                                                                          them the old fashioned way, which does not lead to spectacular growth, nor
                                                                                                                                                          will it probably lead to any aquatic planting awards. I simply keep plants
                                                                                                                                                          to help make the fish feel more comfortable. Other than some good natured
                                                                                                                                                          kidding about it, she does not keep at me to get with it and get some real
                                                                                                                                                          plants growing. Perhaps, some time, I will. It is simply not an interest of
                                                                                                                                                          mine right now.

                                                                                                                                                          As I have stated here before, and I am sure I will again, I just want to
                                                                                                                                                          give the information that is available so that people can make the decision
                                                                                                                                                          they feel is right for their aquariums. There is usually more than one right
                                                                                                                                                          way to do many things in this hobby.

                                                                                                                                                          \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                          From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                          Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 7:33 PM
                                                                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter

                                                                                                                                                          i don't need any advice or directions from you steve.
                                                                                                                                                          i have more than a decade of experience, work in
                                                                                                                                                          industry, and have no [problems with my tanks. if i
                                                                                                                                                          were to have a question, i have many outlets that i
                                                                                                                                                          trust, including head of the marine bioogy dept. at
                                                                                                                                                          csu santa cruz. as well as industry sources as i have
                                                                                                                                                          3 years industry experience as well. i set up tanks
                                                                                                                                                          every week, and advise daily, with a whole lot of
                                                                                                                                                          satisfied customers.
                                                                                                                                                          --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                          > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > Simply follow the published research. Nothing more,
                                                                                                                                                          > nothing less.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                          > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                          > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                          > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 3:23 AM
                                                                                                                                                          > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > exactly valeen, steve wants to revamp the entire
                                                                                                                                                          > fish
                                                                                                                                                          > industry to fit his ideals
                                                                                                                                                          > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                          > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > > what?!?! no carbon? this is new to me. what are
                                                                                                                                                          > you
                                                                                                                                                          > > supposed to use in filters if there's no carbon? i
                                                                                                                                                          > > have eclipses, a minibow and a glass tank that all
                                                                                                                                                          > > have carbon filters and they work well.
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:Paul,
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > Most prepackaged for the filter carbon is not
                                                                                                                                                          > enough
                                                                                                                                                          > > for either the flow
                                                                                                                                                          > > rate nor the amount of water that will be passing
                                                                                                                                                          > > through it. It does not
                                                                                                                                                          > > matter whether they are the plastic cartridges
                                                                                                                                                          > used
                                                                                                                                                          > > in conjunction with
                                                                                                                                                          > > undergravel filters , or the polyester pads with
                                                                                                                                                          > > carbon in the interior
                                                                                                                                                          > > "pouch". Carbon that has out lived its useful life
                                                                                                                                                          > > will start to shed the
                                                                                                                                                          > > molecules you are picking up. As this is done, it
                                                                                                                                                          > is
                                                                                                                                                          > > not a perfect thing and
                                                                                                                                                          > > molecules can combine to make substances more
                                                                                                                                                          > toxic
                                                                                                                                                          > > than those originally
                                                                                                                                                          > > found in the water.
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > I stand by my statement that on should only use
                                                                                                                                                          > > carbon as a filtration agent
                                                                                                                                                          > > when it is indicated, such as to remove remaining
                                                                                                                                                          > > medication from the water
                                                                                                                                                          > > in a tank. Regular water changes will handle the
                                                                                                                                                          > > substances that carbon
                                                                                                                                                          > > removes to an adequate degree. If you want crystal
                                                                                                                                                          > > clear water (something
                                                                                                                                                          > > not often found in nature) then there are other
                                                                                                                                                          > > means and methods to achieve
                                                                                                                                                          > > this that do not carry the risks of carbon
                                                                                                                                                          > > filtration.
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                          > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                          > > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                          > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:13 PM
                                                                                                                                                          > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > it is dependant upon flow rate o water through it.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > > most cratridges are specifically for different
                                                                                                                                                          > > models
                                                                                                                                                          > > of filter because they have the proper amount of
                                                                                                                                                          > > carbon for teh flow rate. i do not have exact
                                                                                                                                                          > > numbers
                                                                                                                                                          > > in front of me, but i am sure they could be found.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > > there is no reason not to use carbon.
                                                                                                                                                          > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > IOW, pretty much what water changes done on a
                                                                                                                                                          > > > regular basis does. You say
                                                                                                                                                          > > > thirty days. Under exactly what circumstances?
                                                                                                                                                          > Do
                                                                                                                                                          > > > you need a half cup of
                                                                                                                                                          > > > carbon per 50 gallons of water, or do you need
                                                                                                                                                          > one
                                                                                                                                                          > > > cup, or maybe more? What
                                                                                                                                                          > > > about variations in adsorption rates between
                                                                                                                                                          > > > batches?
                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > Pretty much, unless indicated otherwise, do not
                                                                                                                                                          > > use
                                                                                                                                                          > > > carbon on a regular
                                                                                                                                                          > > > basis. If you want crystal clear water, use
                                                                                                                                                          > > regular
                                                                                                                                                          > > > water changes and a
                                                                                                                                                          > > > diatom filter.
                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                          > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                          > > > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                          > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:53 PM
                                                                                                                                                          > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > in verey day aquarium use, it is used to clarify
                                                                                                                                                          > > the
                                                                                                                                                          > > > water and deodorize the tank. of course it
                                                                                                                                                          > should
                                                                                                                                                          > > > be
                                                                                                                                                          > > > replaced after absorbing meds and chemicals, but
                                                                                                                                                          > > for
                                                                                                                                                          > > > odor and clarity use in a stable aquarium it is
                                                                                                                                                          > 30
                                                                                                                                                          > > > days
                                                                                                                                                          > > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > As I mentioned a bit earlier to Rachel, in
                                                                                                                                                          > > another
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > thread, carbon should
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > only be used in specific instances where
                                                                                                                                                          > > chemical
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > filtration may be
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > warranted. There is no real way to judge when
                                                                                                                                                          > > the
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > efficacy of the carbon
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > filter drops to an unacceptable level. It
                                                                                                                                                          > > depends
                                                                                                                                                          > > > on
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > the amount of carbon
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > being used along with the load of chemicals it
                                                                                                                                                          > > is
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > being asked to remove. In
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > some cases, one day may be more than it takes,
                                                                                                                                                          > > > while
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > in others, the three
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > months you mention may well be within its
                                                                                                                                                          > > limits.
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > Contrary to what Paul has stated, once the
                                                                                                                                                          > > carbon
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > has been used up, i.e.
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > captured all the molecules it can, it has been
                                                                                                                                                          > > > shown
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > that it will release
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > these molecules, sometimes in a toxic
                                                                                                                                                          > > combination
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > with other molecules, and
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > it will not serve as a biological filter.
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > With the light load you have in your tank, I'd
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > suggest removing the carbon
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > and replacing it with ceramic rings, or
                                                                                                                                                          > another
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > material that can serve as a
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > biological filter for your tank. Regular water
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > changes should suffice to
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > handle the removal of chemicals that may be
                                                                                                                                                          > > > harmful
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > to your fish.
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 12:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > I have a HOT Magnum canister filter which uses
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > carbon and a sponge sleeve in
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > the filter. Is that ok? The guy I got the
                                                                                                                                                          > tank
                                                                                                                                                          > > > and
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > stuff from told me to
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > change the carbon every 3 months, but that he
                                                                                                                                                          > > > hadn't
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > changed it recently. I
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > rinse the sponge sleeve monthly, when should I
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > change the carbon?
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > Angela
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          === message truncated ===


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                                                                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                          the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                          subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                          in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10899 From: paul helms Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                          well, for so carefully stating things, there sure were
                                                                                                                                                          a few people you scared about the carbon subject.
                                                                                                                                                          maybe you should make it a point to express that it is
                                                                                                                                                          a rarity, and things can happen in rare instances
                                                                                                                                                          instead of telling novices that they are do something
                                                                                                                                                          risky when they are doing exactly as they should for
                                                                                                                                                          their level. as for your "credentials", being third
                                                                                                                                                          generations fish keeprer...that is not a credential.
                                                                                                                                                          the three generations before me were farmers, and i
                                                                                                                                                          grow plants with godd results, but it does not give me
                                                                                                                                                          a credential in agriculture! great thta you are so
                                                                                                                                                          involved, but to be really honest, i am more impressed
                                                                                                                                                          with people like patrick and ray in this group. i
                                                                                                                                                          personally respect the way they interact with people
                                                                                                                                                          and the level of ability that they present, as opposed
                                                                                                                                                          to i am the king of the industry and have to write
                                                                                                                                                          long winded responses to things that don't require
                                                                                                                                                          such. i did not ask for your credential, frankly put,
                                                                                                                                                          don't direct you long winded comments to me, because i
                                                                                                                                                          am not impressed. i would much rather here from
                                                                                                                                                          people who are experienceing the hobby rather than
                                                                                                                                                          tooting thier own horn. if i am being unfair to you,
                                                                                                                                                          sorry that is just the way it is, and i hope you can
                                                                                                                                                          be adult enough to move on and help where you can. as
                                                                                                                                                          i said, i am not looking for help from you steve, but
                                                                                                                                                          i do enjoy helping where i can and conversing with the
                                                                                                                                                          afore mentioned memebers as well as many others.
                                                                                                                                                          --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                          > I've thought about writing this all day,. And
                                                                                                                                                          > finally decided that I
                                                                                                                                                          > probably should.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > Well, if you would like some credentials, I can
                                                                                                                                                          > start listing some of mine
                                                                                                                                                          > here again.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > My paternal grandmother kept fish, my father kept
                                                                                                                                                          > fish, and I keep fish.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > I have been a member of a number of aquarium
                                                                                                                                                          > societies, currently I am a
                                                                                                                                                          > member of the Worcester Aquarium Society and the
                                                                                                                                                          > Potomac Valley Aquarium
                                                                                                                                                          > Society.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > I am currently a life member of the American Cichlid
                                                                                                                                                          > Association., and have
                                                                                                                                                          > been a member of other national and international
                                                                                                                                                          > groups. For the IBC
                                                                                                                                                          > (International Betta Congress) I help develop the
                                                                                                                                                          > first publication on
                                                                                                                                                          > various betta species other than _Betta splendens_.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > I am a judge, certified by the Northeast Council of
                                                                                                                                                          > Aquarium Societies.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > I have spoken on judging, ponds, preparing for a
                                                                                                                                                          > show, and other topics
                                                                                                                                                          > before many aquarium groups. I have also helped
                                                                                                                                                          > train judges for the NEC,
                                                                                                                                                          > both by giving classes, and supervising
                                                                                                                                                          > judges-in-training at various shows.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > I help found and form FISHNET, now a part of
                                                                                                                                                          > petsforum.com, of which I am a
                                                                                                                                                          > stockholder.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > I have written for many aquarium society
                                                                                                                                                          > publications as well as national
                                                                                                                                                          > magazines.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > I know and speak with many of the people whose names
                                                                                                                                                          > you see mentioned in
                                                                                                                                                          > various contexts within the hobby.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > IOW, I've been around. I've done a lot of stuff.
                                                                                                                                                          > I've learned a lot of
                                                                                                                                                          > stuff. I've done my share of stupid stuff and have,
                                                                                                                                                          > hopefully learned from
                                                                                                                                                          > that. I've known the pain of losing very expensive
                                                                                                                                                          > fish (not to belittle
                                                                                                                                                          > those who feel the pain of losing any fish [the
                                                                                                                                                          > difference between a novice
                                                                                                                                                          > and an expert, it is said, is the cost of the fish
                                                                                                                                                          > they kill]), but I also
                                                                                                                                                          > have experienced the joy of being able to breed and
                                                                                                                                                          > raise a great many fish,
                                                                                                                                                          > both common and rare.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > Everything that I say here is backed by experience,
                                                                                                                                                          > my own research and that
                                                                                                                                                          > of others. Not everybody is right all the time, but
                                                                                                                                                          > backed by experience and
                                                                                                                                                          > knowledge, one can lessen the chance of making
                                                                                                                                                          > errors.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > In this current thread, not once have I said that
                                                                                                                                                          > one should not use carbon,
                                                                                                                                                          > and when I use carbon, I refer to activated carbon.
                                                                                                                                                          > Indeed, I have pointed
                                                                                                                                                          > out instances where carbon usage is very helpful,
                                                                                                                                                          > and possibly the only
                                                                                                                                                          > thing that will suffice for a given set of
                                                                                                                                                          > circumstances. What I have been
                                                                                                                                                          > pointing out is that the use of carbon, for the most
                                                                                                                                                          > part, is not necessary
                                                                                                                                                          > so long as other criteria, such as water changes,
                                                                                                                                                          > are met. I have also
                                                                                                                                                          > pointed out that if carbon is not properly used, it
                                                                                                                                                          > can be detrimental to
                                                                                                                                                          > the health of your aquarium. There have been
                                                                                                                                                          > comments in this thread that
                                                                                                                                                          > carbon is good for x number of days. Unless one
                                                                                                                                                          > knows what is in the water,
                                                                                                                                                          > the amount of carbon being used, and the rate at
                                                                                                                                                          > which it is adsorbed by the
                                                                                                                                                          > carbon, such declarations are really pretty useless.
                                                                                                                                                          > The adsorptive capacity
                                                                                                                                                          > of carbon does diminish over time. Whether one
                                                                                                                                                          > should change it at a certain
                                                                                                                                                          > point in the future is wholly dependent on a number
                                                                                                                                                          > of factors which will
                                                                                                                                                          > vary from tank to tank. If I stated that one should
                                                                                                                                                          > change carbon every 7
                                                                                                                                                          > days (one figure mentioned) or every thirty days
                                                                                                                                                          > (another figure mentioned),
                                                                                                                                                          > I would be negligent if I did not also say that this
                                                                                                                                                          > has been my experience
                                                                                                                                                          > and your mileage may vary.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > If you will carefully read my posts, and not just
                                                                                                                                                          > skim over them, you will
                                                                                                                                                          > notice that they are phrased with a great deal of
                                                                                                                                                          > hemming and hawing. That
                                                                                                                                                          > is because I am very aware that what works for me
                                                                                                                                                          > may not work for another.
                                                                                                                                                          > There is always some factor or a number of factors
                                                                                                                                                          > that are not accounted
                                                                                                                                                          > for, not that they are left out purposely, but they
                                                                                                                                                          > may be left out
                                                                                                                                                          > inadvertently or they may simply be unknown to us as
                                                                                                                                                          > even being a factor. If
                                                                                                                                                          > I and all my buddies do something the same way, but
                                                                                                                                                          > many people perform that
                                                                                                                                                          > task differently, and I do not mention how I perform
                                                                                                                                                          > it, maybe because I
                                                                                                                                                          > think everyone does it this way, or because it seems
                                                                                                                                                          > to be irrelevant to the
                                                                                                                                                          > topic at hand, I can steer a person down the wrong
                                                                                                                                                          > path, not because I mean
                                                                                                                                                          > to but because I do not realize that I should be
                                                                                                                                                          > saying something a certain
                                                                                                                                                          > way.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > As easy as you and I might think it is, starting and
                                                                                                                                                          > maintaining an aquarium
                                                                                                                                                          > is not the easiest thing in the world to do. It
                                                                                                                                                          > takes a lot of knowledge,
                                                                                                                                                          > patience, and information along with some plain hard
                                                                                                                                                          > work to get it right
                                                                                                                                                          > the first time and every time there after. Saying
                                                                                                                                                          > that the use of carbon is
                                                                                                                                                          > mandated by the common books in the hobby is quite a
                                                                                                                                                          > bit different than
                                                                                                                                                          > saying this is what carbon does and does not do.
                                                                                                                                                          > Here are some reasons to
                                                                                                                                                          > use it and here are some reasons not to. Here are
                                                                                                                                                          > some ways to do what
                                                                                                                                                          > carbon will do for you as well.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > You claim to have been around for a while yourself.
                                                                                                                                                          > About one fifth the time
                                                                                                                                                          > I have been doing this. You claim to even be in the
                                                                                                                                                          > industry, and have many
                                                                                                                                                          > industry contacts. Well, by now you should have been
                                                                                                                                                          > around enough to know
                                                                                                                                                          > that many books parrot one another, and what they
                                                                                                                                                          > say is not always so. If
                                                                                                                                                          > you are in the industry, you probably have easier
                                                                                                                                                          > access to the research
                                                                                                                                                          > than I do, I don't see a lot of it until long after
                                                                                                                                                          > it has been published.
                                                                                                                                                          > If you do the reading, I'm sure you'll find a lot of
                                                                                                                                                          > what I say has its
                                                                                                                                                          > basis in that research, tempered by my own
                                                                                                                                                          > experience.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > You will also note that there are a lot of topics I
                                                                                                                                                          > do not become involved
                                                                                                                                                          > in. Many times that is because there are already
                                                                                                                                                          > adequate answers to the
                                                                                                                                                          > question. Other times it is because it involves a
                                                                                                                                                          > facet that I am not
                                                                                                                                                          > interested in, or perhaps one that I am not up to
                                                                                                                                                          > date on. A good friend of
                                                                                                                                                          > mine (you would immediately know the name were I to
                                                                                                                                                          > drop it) always wonders
                                                                                                                                                          > when I will get up to speed on plants. Well, I do
                                                                                                                                                          > keep plants, and I keep
                                                                                                                                                          > them the old fashioned way, which does not lead to
                                                                                                                                                          > spectacular growth, nor
                                                                                                                                                          > will it probably lead to any aquatic planting
                                                                                                                                                          > awards. I simply keep plants
                                                                                                                                                          > to help make the fish feel more comfortable. Other
                                                                                                                                                          > than some good natured
                                                                                                                                                          > kidding about it, she does not keep at me to get
                                                                                                                                                          > with it and get some real
                                                                                                                                                          > plants growing. Perhaps, some time, I will. It is
                                                                                                                                                          > simply not an interest of
                                                                                                                                                          > mine right now.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > As I have stated here before, and I am sure I will
                                                                                                                                                          > again, I just want to
                                                                                                                                                          > give the information that is available so that
                                                                                                                                                          > people can make the decision
                                                                                                                                                          > they feel is right for their aquariums. There is
                                                                                                                                                          > usually more than one right
                                                                                                                                                          > way to do many things in this hobby.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                          > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                          > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                          > Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 7:33 PM
                                                                                                                                                          > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          === message truncated ===


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                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10900 From: Torran Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Howdy and a question

                                                                                                                                                           Hi there. I am Torran.

                                                                                                                                                          My kids and I have 2 tanks with gold fish. One tank is particularly special. My son won one of those tiny minnow looking things at the fair almost 5 years ago. He brought it home in cup and I was sure it wouldn’t make it through the night. It was tiny and silver and kinda floating sideways. We made a midnight run to Wal-Mart and set up a tank for him and hoped for the best. Well, it’s HUGE and a lovely bright gold now. We have him in a tank with another goldfish we bought him for company, a plecostimus (hope I spelled that right), and two huge snails (not sure what species but I love those things. They are so cool to watch).

                                                                                                                                                          We will be moving 8 hours away soon. Does anyone have any suggestions on transporting the fish all that way? If the goldfish that he won when he was 5 dies, my son will be shattered and will not easily get over it. He loves that fish. Killer is the fish’ name, btw.

                                                                                                                                                          Anyhoo, glad to be here. Thanks in advance for any help you guys might offer.

                                                                                                                                                          <<>>Torran

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10901 From: harry perry Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: A colorful aquarium world on your screen!/Don't do it again.
                                                                                                                                                          This group is not your marketplace. Try it again and you will be deleted from the group.
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          Harry

                                                                                                                                                          alexnorton2004 <alexnorton2004@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                          For all lovers of the small nature: Aquarium Life Screensaver 3.0
                                                                                                                                                          [colorful slideshow]
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                                                                                                                                                          algaes. Red and blue, golden and white, striped and spotted creations
                                                                                                                                                          will enchant your eyes. There is sound background.
                                                                                                                                                          Just transform your monitor in aquarium world!
                                                                                                                                                          HomePage: http://www.altixsoft.com/software-aquariumlife.htm

                                                                                                                                                          This screen saver contains 35 high-qualitative images. All pictures
                                                                                                                                                          in resolution 1024*768 pix. and High Color (24-bit). Saver is set to
                                                                                                                                                          automatically fit them to your own screen size.
                                                                                                                                                          Screenshot: http://www.altixsoft.com/aquarium/screenshot.jpg

                                                                                                                                                          General features:
                                                                                                                                                          ++ All images in resolution 1024 x 768 pixels
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                                                                                                                                                          Download file: http://www.altixsoft.com/aquariumlife.exe [ 5.05MB ]


                                                                                                                                                          Enjoy!

                                                                                                                                                          --
                                                                                                                                                          ALTIX SOFT STUDIO
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.altixsoft.com


                                                                                                                                                          aquarium life screensaver, aquarium, aquarium fishes, undersea world,
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                                                                                                                                                          aquarium, aquarium images, aquarium algaes, aquarium vegetation,
                                                                                                                                                          screen saver, wallpaper, desktop, altix









                                                                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


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                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 10902 From: Lauri Date: 5/1/2005
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Midas Coloration
                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                            Hi group

                                                                                                                                                            I've had a Midas cichlid for almost 2 months, and he's
                                                                                                                                                            about 3" now. He has been completely bright orange until
                                                                                                                                                            the last couple of days, and suddenly some of his scales are
                                                                                                                                                            turning a brown color along his sides - there is no distinct
                                                                                                                                                            pattern to them, although for the most part the brown scales
                                                                                                                                                            are in groupings rather than scattered.

                                                                                                                                                            I've looked all over the web, and I have come across sites
                                                                                                                                                            that talk about "color morph", but what is described there
                                                                                                                                                            doesn't sound like what is happening here.

                                                                                                                                                            I've also seen pics on some sites of "Midas" with stripes,
                                                                                                                                                            similar to severum - but these brown scales aren't lined up
                                                                                                                                                            like he's growing stripes.

                                                                                                                                                            Does anyone have any experience with this?

                                                                                                                                                            Also, I am confused by the information on the web about the
                                                                                                                                                            nuchal hump, I have seen pics of "midas" with it, and without it.
                                                                                                                                                            Some sites claim that this grows in males (?)

                                                                                                                                                            I have attached a pic of mine for anyone who might be able
                                                                                                                                                            to shed some light.

                                                                                                                                                            Thanks
                                                                                                                                                            Lauri T
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10903 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                            I only replied with my credentials since you consistently wish to list
                                                                                                                                                            yours. ?some of my replies may seem to be long winded, but that is because I
                                                                                                                                                            try to cover the subject well. It is unfortunate that you choose not to read
                                                                                                                                                            them thoroughly and see that I am not refuting your position on carbon, but
                                                                                                                                                            expanding the subject.

                                                                                                                                                            An other comments on me may be taken off list.

                                                                                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                            From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                            Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 12:38 AM
                                                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter

                                                                                                                                                            well, for so carefully stating things, there sure were
                                                                                                                                                            a few people you scared about the carbon subject.
                                                                                                                                                            maybe you should make it a point to express that it is
                                                                                                                                                            a rarity, and things can happen in rare instances
                                                                                                                                                            instead of telling novices that they are do something
                                                                                                                                                            risky when they are doing exactly as they should for
                                                                                                                                                            their level. as for your "credentials", being third
                                                                                                                                                            generations fish keeprer...that is not a credential.
                                                                                                                                                            the three generations before me were farmers, and i
                                                                                                                                                            grow plants with godd results, but it does not give me
                                                                                                                                                            a credential in agriculture! great thta you are so
                                                                                                                                                            involved, but to be really honest, i am more impressed
                                                                                                                                                            with people like patrick and ray in this group. i
                                                                                                                                                            personally respect the way they interact with people
                                                                                                                                                            and the level of ability that they present, as opposed
                                                                                                                                                            to i am the king of the industry and have to write
                                                                                                                                                            long winded responses to things that don't require
                                                                                                                                                            such. i did not ask for your credential, frankly put,
                                                                                                                                                            don't direct you long winded comments to me, because i
                                                                                                                                                            am not impressed. i would much rather here from
                                                                                                                                                            people who are experienceing the hobby rather than
                                                                                                                                                            tooting thier own horn. if i am being unfair to you,
                                                                                                                                                            sorry that is just the way it is, and i hope you can
                                                                                                                                                            be adult enough to move on and help where you can. as
                                                                                                                                                            i said, i am not looking for help from you steve, but
                                                                                                                                                            i do enjoy helping where i can and conversing with the
                                                                                                                                                            afore mentioned memebers as well as many others.
                                                                                                                                                            --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                            > I've thought about writing this all day,. And
                                                                                                                                                            > finally decided that I
                                                                                                                                                            > probably should.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Well, if you would like some credentials, I can
                                                                                                                                                            > start listing some of mine
                                                                                                                                                            > here again.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > My paternal grandmother kept fish, my father kept
                                                                                                                                                            > fish, and I keep fish.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I have been a member of a number of aquarium
                                                                                                                                                            > societies, currently I am a
                                                                                                                                                            > member of the Worcester Aquarium Society and the
                                                                                                                                                            > Potomac Valley Aquarium
                                                                                                                                                            > Society.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I am currently a life member of the American Cichlid
                                                                                                                                                            > Association., and have
                                                                                                                                                            > been a member of other national and international
                                                                                                                                                            > groups. For the IBC
                                                                                                                                                            > (International Betta Congress) I help develop the
                                                                                                                                                            > first publication on
                                                                                                                                                            > various betta species other than _Betta splendens_.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I am a judge, certified by the Northeast Council of
                                                                                                                                                            > Aquarium Societies.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I have spoken on judging, ponds, preparing for a
                                                                                                                                                            > show, and other topics
                                                                                                                                                            > before many aquarium groups. I have also helped
                                                                                                                                                            > train judges for the NEC,
                                                                                                                                                            > both by giving classes, and supervising
                                                                                                                                                            > judges-in-training at various shows.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I help found and form FISHNET, now a part of
                                                                                                                                                            > petsforum.com, of which I am a
                                                                                                                                                            > stockholder.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I have written for many aquarium society
                                                                                                                                                            > publications as well as national
                                                                                                                                                            > magazines.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I know and speak with many of the people whose names
                                                                                                                                                            > you see mentioned in
                                                                                                                                                            > various contexts within the hobby.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > IOW, I've been around. I've done a lot of stuff.
                                                                                                                                                            > I've learned a lot of
                                                                                                                                                            > stuff. I've done my share of stupid stuff and have,
                                                                                                                                                            > hopefully learned from
                                                                                                                                                            > that. I've known the pain of losing very expensive
                                                                                                                                                            > fish (not to belittle
                                                                                                                                                            > those who feel the pain of losing any fish [the
                                                                                                                                                            > difference between a novice
                                                                                                                                                            > and an expert, it is said, is the cost of the fish
                                                                                                                                                            > they kill]), but I also
                                                                                                                                                            > have experienced the joy of being able to breed and
                                                                                                                                                            > raise a great many fish,
                                                                                                                                                            > both common and rare.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Everything that I say here is backed by experience,
                                                                                                                                                            > my own research and that
                                                                                                                                                            > of others. Not everybody is right all the time, but
                                                                                                                                                            > backed by experience and
                                                                                                                                                            > knowledge, one can lessen the chance of making
                                                                                                                                                            > errors.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > In this current thread, not once have I said that
                                                                                                                                                            > one should not use carbon,
                                                                                                                                                            > and when I use carbon, I refer to activated carbon.
                                                                                                                                                            > Indeed, I have pointed
                                                                                                                                                            > out instances where carbon usage is very helpful,
                                                                                                                                                            > and possibly the only
                                                                                                                                                            > thing that will suffice for a given set of
                                                                                                                                                            > circumstances. What I have been
                                                                                                                                                            > pointing out is that the use of carbon, for the most
                                                                                                                                                            > part, is not necessary
                                                                                                                                                            > so long as other criteria, such as water changes,
                                                                                                                                                            > are met. I have also
                                                                                                                                                            > pointed out that if carbon is not properly used, it
                                                                                                                                                            > can be detrimental to
                                                                                                                                                            > the health of your aquarium. There have been
                                                                                                                                                            > comments in this thread that
                                                                                                                                                            > carbon is good for x number of days. Unless one
                                                                                                                                                            > knows what is in the water,
                                                                                                                                                            > the amount of carbon being used, and the rate at
                                                                                                                                                            > which it is adsorbed by the
                                                                                                                                                            > carbon, such declarations are really pretty useless.
                                                                                                                                                            > The adsorptive capacity
                                                                                                                                                            > of carbon does diminish over time. Whether one
                                                                                                                                                            > should change it at a certain
                                                                                                                                                            > point in the future is wholly dependent on a number
                                                                                                                                                            > of factors which will
                                                                                                                                                            > vary from tank to tank. If I stated that one should
                                                                                                                                                            > change carbon every 7
                                                                                                                                                            > days (one figure mentioned) or every thirty days
                                                                                                                                                            > (another figure mentioned),
                                                                                                                                                            > I would be negligent if I did not also say that this
                                                                                                                                                            > has been my experience
                                                                                                                                                            > and your mileage may vary.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > If you will carefully read my posts, and not just
                                                                                                                                                            > skim over them, you will
                                                                                                                                                            > notice that they are phrased with a great deal of
                                                                                                                                                            > hemming and hawing. That
                                                                                                                                                            > is because I am very aware that what works for me
                                                                                                                                                            > may not work for another.
                                                                                                                                                            > There is always some factor or a number of factors
                                                                                                                                                            > that are not accounted
                                                                                                                                                            > for, not that they are left out purposely, but they
                                                                                                                                                            > may be left out
                                                                                                                                                            > inadvertently or they may simply be unknown to us as
                                                                                                                                                            > even being a factor. If
                                                                                                                                                            > I and all my buddies do something the same way, but
                                                                                                                                                            > many people perform that
                                                                                                                                                            > task differently, and I do not mention how I perform
                                                                                                                                                            > it, maybe because I
                                                                                                                                                            > think everyone does it this way, or because it seems
                                                                                                                                                            > to be irrelevant to the
                                                                                                                                                            > topic at hand, I can steer a person down the wrong
                                                                                                                                                            > path, not because I mean
                                                                                                                                                            > to but because I do not realize that I should be
                                                                                                                                                            > saying something a certain
                                                                                                                                                            > way.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > As easy as you and I might think it is, starting and
                                                                                                                                                            > maintaining an aquarium
                                                                                                                                                            > is not the easiest thing in the world to do. It
                                                                                                                                                            > takes a lot of knowledge,
                                                                                                                                                            > patience, and information along with some plain hard
                                                                                                                                                            > work to get it right
                                                                                                                                                            > the first time and every time there after. Saying
                                                                                                                                                            > that the use of carbon is
                                                                                                                                                            > mandated by the common books in the hobby is quite a
                                                                                                                                                            > bit different than
                                                                                                                                                            > saying this is what carbon does and does not do.
                                                                                                                                                            > Here are some reasons to
                                                                                                                                                            > use it and here are some reasons not to. Here are
                                                                                                                                                            > some ways to do what
                                                                                                                                                            > carbon will do for you as well.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > You claim to have been around for a while yourself.
                                                                                                                                                            > About one fifth the time
                                                                                                                                                            > I have been doing this. You claim to even be in the
                                                                                                                                                            > industry, and have many
                                                                                                                                                            > industry contacts. Well, by now you should have been
                                                                                                                                                            > around enough to know
                                                                                                                                                            > that many books parrot one another, and what they
                                                                                                                                                            > say is not always so. If
                                                                                                                                                            > you are in the industry, you probably have easier
                                                                                                                                                            > access to the research
                                                                                                                                                            > than I do, I don't see a lot of it until long after
                                                                                                                                                            > it has been published.
                                                                                                                                                            > If you do the reading, I'm sure you'll find a lot of
                                                                                                                                                            > what I say has its
                                                                                                                                                            > basis in that research, tempered by my own
                                                                                                                                                            > experience.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > You will also note that there are a lot of topics I
                                                                                                                                                            > do not become involved
                                                                                                                                                            > in. Many times that is because there are already
                                                                                                                                                            > adequate answers to the
                                                                                                                                                            > question. Other times it is because it involves a
                                                                                                                                                            > facet that I am not
                                                                                                                                                            > interested in, or perhaps one that I am not up to
                                                                                                                                                            > date on. A good friend of
                                                                                                                                                            > mine (you would immediately know the name were I to
                                                                                                                                                            > drop it) always wonders
                                                                                                                                                            > when I will get up to speed on plants. Well, I do
                                                                                                                                                            > keep plants, and I keep
                                                                                                                                                            > them the old fashioned way, which does not lead to
                                                                                                                                                            > spectacular growth, nor
                                                                                                                                                            > will it probably lead to any aquatic planting
                                                                                                                                                            > awards. I simply keep plants
                                                                                                                                                            > to help make the fish feel more comfortable. Other
                                                                                                                                                            > than some good natured
                                                                                                                                                            > kidding about it, she does not keep at me to get
                                                                                                                                                            > with it and get some real
                                                                                                                                                            > plants growing. Perhaps, some time, I will. It is
                                                                                                                                                            > simply not an interest of
                                                                                                                                                            > mine right now.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > As I have stated here before, and I am sure I will
                                                                                                                                                            > again, I just want to
                                                                                                                                                            > give the information that is available so that
                                                                                                                                                            > people can make the decision
                                                                                                                                                            > they feel is right for their aquariums. There is
                                                                                                                                                            > usually more than one right
                                                                                                                                                            > way to do many things in this hobby.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                            > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                            > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                            > Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 7:33 PM
                                                                                                                                                            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Carbon Filter
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            === message truncated ===


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                                                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10904 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Plants!
                                                                                                                                                            Right now I have anacharis and cabomba, java fern, dwarf mondo grass,
                                                                                                                                                            hair grass, striped sedge, and what was called 'four leafed clover' at
                                                                                                                                                            the pet store. They are all fairly unfussy and inexpensive and
                                                                                                                                                            spreading like mad.

                                                                                                                                                            > Lately I have been getting a facination with a planted aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > What should i get for my 300 liter (90gallon) tank by ways of a CO2
                                                                                                                                                            > system?
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Which is cheeper and best in the long run?
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > =Nick
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10905 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Midas Coloration
                                                                                                                                                            Lauri, This smaller of the two Cichlids known as Red Devils are
                                                                                                                                                            known as one of those Cichlids that can change coloration as it
                                                                                                                                                            grows, usually starting out more drab and changing to various shades
                                                                                                                                                            of pink, orange, red and even white (the color morphs you refer to),
                                                                                                                                                            and not always solid. At 3" this fish is still young, but appears to
                                                                                                                                                            be a female. As such, it probably will be more drab than a male of
                                                                                                                                                            similar size especially as she grows. Give her time, she may color
                                                                                                                                                            up more, but its also possible that the brown coloration is just a
                                                                                                                                                            start of her final appearance, growing out over more of her body as
                                                                                                                                                            she grows -- they don't necessarily develop a "pattern", but can
                                                                                                                                                            appear as an increasingly large blotch covering up to a good portion
                                                                                                                                                            of her body. As for the nuchal (head-"neck" area), as with many
                                                                                                                                                            Cichlids, Old & New World, males will develop an increasingly large
                                                                                                                                                            hump on the head with size and maturity. Citrinellum can get to
                                                                                                                                                            about 10" to 12", occasionally to 15" with females generally somewhat
                                                                                                                                                            smaller. The larger the males get, in general the larger the hump.
                                                                                                                                                            Hope I've addressed all your concerns. Ray
                                                                                                                                                            \
                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lauri" <aktahi@3...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > Hi group
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I've had a Midas cichlid for almost 2 months, and he's
                                                                                                                                                            > about 3" now. He has been completely bright orange until
                                                                                                                                                            > the last couple of days, and suddenly some of his scales are
                                                                                                                                                            > turning a brown color along his sides - there is no distinct
                                                                                                                                                            > pattern to them, although for the most part the brown scales
                                                                                                                                                            > are in groupings rather than scattered.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I've looked all over the web, and I have come across sites
                                                                                                                                                            > that talk about "color morph", but what is described there
                                                                                                                                                            > doesn't sound like what is happening here.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I've also seen pics on some sites of "Midas" with stripes,
                                                                                                                                                            > similar to severum - but these brown scales aren't lined up
                                                                                                                                                            > like he's growing stripes.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Does anyone have any experience with this?
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Also, I am confused by the information on the web about the
                                                                                                                                                            > nuchal hump, I have seen pics of "midas" with it, and without it.
                                                                                                                                                            > Some sites claim that this grows in males (?)
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I have attached a pic of mine for anyone who might be able
                                                                                                                                                            > to shed some light.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                            > Lauri T
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10906 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Lauri: Midas Coloration

                                                                                                                                                            Lauri,

                                                                                                                                                            I have a fish that is cross bred with a red devil (I think Ray said that your is also called this.)  They both started this brown (darker than yours) patchy thing, which quickly spread to their eyes and all over.  I FINALLY found that it is called “black spot disease” and is a parasite most commonly found in the blood parrot.  I treated with maracide for 5 days and haven’t seen the ugly discoloration since.  It went away very quickly where I could see a great difference within a few hours.

                                                                                                                                                            I don’t recommend treating until you look up “black spot disease” and see how relevant it is to your case.  But the markings on the fins are exactly what mine had.  And each day it was more present than the previous night.

                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                            Hope this helps. =)  He is such a cutie.  Looks like he’s smiling.

                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                            Leslie

                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                            Hi group

                                                                                                                                                                I've had a Midas cichlid for almost 2 months, and he's
                                                                                                                                                            about
                                                                                                                                                            3" now.   He has been completely bright orange until

                                                                                                                                                            the last couple of days, and suddenly some of his scales are
                                                                                                                                                            turning a brown color along his sides - there is no distinct
                                                                                                                                                            pattern to them, although for the most part the brown scales
                                                                                                                                                            are in groupings rather than scattered.

                                                                                                                                                                I've looked all over the web, and I have come across sites
                                                                                                                                                            that talk about "color morph",  but what is described there
                                                                                                                                                            doesn't sound like what is happening here.

                                                                                                                                                                I've also seen pics on some sites of "Midas" with stripes,
                                                                                                                                                            similar to severum - but these brown scales aren't lined up
                                                                                                                                                            like he's growing stripes.

                                                                                                                                                                Does anyone have any experience with this? 

                                                                                                                                                            Also,  I am confused by the information on the web about the
                                                                                                                                                            nuchal hump, I have seen pics of "midas" with it, and without it.
                                                                                                                                                            Some sites claim that this grows in males (?)

                                                                                                                                                                I have attached a pic of mine for anyone who might be able
                                                                                                                                                            to shed some light.

                                                                                                                                                                Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                    Lauri T


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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10907 From: helen572 Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Sick platy?
                                                                                                                                                            Her belly isn't swollen, but she has become more active. Yesterday,
                                                                                                                                                            she was doing a wiggle kind of movement -- not moving forward or back,
                                                                                                                                                            but wiggling in place, and I thought that might indicate she was
                                                                                                                                                            trying to give birth. But today she appears normal - swimming around,
                                                                                                                                                            no fry, no sitting on the bottom. Well, sometimes I guess there's
                                                                                                                                                            just no telling what's going in the fish world. Thanks for the
                                                                                                                                                            heads-up on the possibilty though. I'll keep my eye on her.

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, FortWayneFish@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > If her belly swollen, she is pregnant and probally due within a few
                                                                                                                                                            hours or
                                                                                                                                                            > maybe a day. She will go to the most secure location away from all
                                                                                                                                                            the other
                                                                                                                                                            > fish to hopefully have her babies..
                                                                                                                                                            > This could be ONE cause for her new activity level...
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > rob
                                                                                                                                                            > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > In a message dated 5/1/2005 2:50:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                            > shirleycat@b... writes:
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > > Got a high-fin female platy three days ago - put her in with two other
                                                                                                                                                            > > females and a pleco in a ten-gallon tank. She seemed fine for two
                                                                                                                                                            > > days - swimming around with the other two and eating. But today,
                                                                                                                                                            > > she's been virtually motionless. She came to the surface for food
                                                                                                                                                            > > this morning, but otherwise, she's just sitting on the gravel,
                                                                                                                                                            > > occasionally moving to a dfferent spot. Spouse isn't concerned, but I
                                                                                                                                                            > > say that it isn't a good sign for any fish to be sitting still on the
                                                                                                                                                            > > bottom of the tank that long.
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10908 From: fish14162001 Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Howdy and a question
                                                                                                                                                            what I have done in the past is put the fish in a 5 gallon bucket with
                                                                                                                                                            water from thier tank. get a battery powered air pump, air line, and a
                                                                                                                                                            air stone. they should be ok during the trip. also make sure you cover
                                                                                                                                                            the top of the bucket so no one jumps out. hope this is helpful.
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10909 From: kb1dva Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: new tank

                                                                                                                                                            I lost my hard drive so I’ll ask again.

                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                            I have my 90 gallon tank filled. No gravel just water. Hubby went ahead and did this.  What happens next gravel and decorations? Filters and fish? The thought of moving my big pacu makes me nervous. I have a heater from an old tank and was thinking of warming up the water that way. The tank will have gravel tomorrow. The old filter stays until I can afford a better one. Any thoughts on what kind are the best, types and brands would be helpful. How do I clean the heater, and I want to use all new gravel is that ok any hips are appreciated thanks        Emily  

                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10910 From: kb1dva Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: I almost forgot

                                                                                                                                                            Since lights are expensive what is good to use as a temporary cover. I have 2 cats and 2 dogs you never know who wants a fish dinner. Yes I know that’s not really funny Emily

                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10911 From: Charlene Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                            Hi Can anyone tell me " What kind of play sand I can use." In my 55
                                                                                                                                                            ga tank.

                                                                                                                                                            I have " Kiddlies fun play sand" It is orange and gress lable
                                                                                                                                                            on it. It all so say on it " Ideal for building and mounding"
                                                                                                                                                            Can I usa this sand.

                                                                                                                                                            And how much sand should I ues for my 55 ga tank.



                                                                                                                                                            Thank you for helping me Charlene
                                                                                                                                                            muffin4494@...
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10912 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                            I use play sand for my scorpions. Not as sensative as a fish, I suppose, but I've never had a problem. I think it's safe most likely.
                                                                                                                                                            Emily

                                                                                                                                                            Charlene <muffin4494@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            Hi Can anyone tell me " What kind of play sand I can use." In my 55
                                                                                                                                                            ga tank.

                                                                                                                                                            I have " Kiddlies fun play sand" It is orange and gress lable
                                                                                                                                                            on it. It all so say on it " Ideal for building and mounding"
                                                                                                                                                            Can I usa this sand.

                                                                                                                                                            And how much sand should I ues for my 55 ga tank.



                                                                                                                                                            Thank you for helping me Charlene
                                                                                                                                                            muffin4494@...







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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10913 From: Rachel Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: 20 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                            i picked up a what i think is a 20 gallon tank from my grandmothers
                                                                                                                                                            house on sunday. umm. its kindaa dirrrrty how should i go about
                                                                                                                                                            cleanin it off n makin sure its usable?

                                                                                                                                                            so i was thinkin maybe get another kind of fancy goldfish to put in
                                                                                                                                                            there, maybe a calico telescope. theyre precious. what kind of
                                                                                                                                                            filtration system would i need for it, its 24 in length, 16 in depth,
                                                                                                                                                            12 in width

                                                                                                                                                            i was thinking powerfilter (dunno what kind) a bubble wand along the
                                                                                                                                                            bottom, probably spanning the whole 24 inches, and i was thinking
                                                                                                                                                            about using my undergravel filter if need be. since i will still have
                                                                                                                                                            it and all. would checking on the water once a week be enough?

                                                                                                                                                            and my black moore wont eat veggies. silly fishie.
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10914 From: Ron Hansen Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                            For a saltwater tank, you want sand made from crushed coral, for a
                                                                                                                                                            freshwater tank, you want sand made of quartz. If it doesn't say that
                                                                                                                                                            it's made of quartz or it says that it is "from the carribean", then it is
                                                                                                                                                            likely crushed coral.

                                                                                                                                                            Crushed coral will raise the PH of the water and add extra buffering. You
                                                                                                                                                            want this for a saltwater tank. You probably don't want it for a
                                                                                                                                                            freshwater tank.




                                                                                                                                                            Charlene said:
                                                                                                                                                            > Hi Can anyone tell me " What kind of play sand I can use." In my 55
                                                                                                                                                            > ga tank.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I have " Kiddlies fun play sand" It is orange and gress lable
                                                                                                                                                            > on it. It all so say on it " Ideal for building and mounding"
                                                                                                                                                            > Can I usa this sand.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > And how much sand should I ues for my 55 ga tank.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Thank you for helping me Charlene
                                                                                                                                                            > muffin4494@...
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10915 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Scorpions?

                                                                                                                                                            You have scorpions?  On purpose? Lol 

                                                                                                                                                            ooooh honey not me!  They’d get smooshed! =)  I’m getting the heeby jeebies. 

                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                            Have kids stuff?  Want $$$ for it?  Check out Zainy Zebra Consignment!  Based in Cabot, AR  www.ZainyZebra.com

                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                            Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                            Live in Little Rock?  Little Rock Garage Sale!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                            From:
                                                                                                                                                            AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 4:42 PM
                                                                                                                                                            To:
                                                                                                                                                            AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            Sub
                                                                                                                                                            ject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hi again I need to have something Please help

                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                            I use play sand for my scorpions. Not as sensative as a fish, I suppose, but I've never had a problem. I think it's safe most likely.

                                                                                                                                                            Emily

                                                                                                                                                            Charlene <muffin4494@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                            Hi Can anyone tell me " What kind of play sand I can use." In my 55
                                                                                                                                                            ga tank.

                                                                                                                                                            I have " Kiddlies fun play sand" It is orange and gress lable
                                                                                                                                                            on it. It all so say on it " Ideal for building and mounding"
                                                                                                                                                            Can I usa this sand.

                                                                                                                                                            And how much sand should I ues for my 55 ga tank.



                                                                                                                                                            Thank you for helping me Charlene
                                                                                                                                                            muffin4494@...







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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10916 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                            Rachel,

                                                                                                                                                            Depends on the kind of dirt.

                                                                                                                                                            Use a damp cloth to wipe it down first, to get rid of all the dust and some
                                                                                                                                                            of the loose stuff.

                                                                                                                                                            If the dirt is really caked on, try a single edged razor blade to scrape it
                                                                                                                                                            off, but be real careful around the seams as you do not want to break the
                                                                                                                                                            silicone seal.

                                                                                                                                                            If you have mineral deposits on the glass, use a mixture of vinegar and
                                                                                                                                                            water and lots of elbow grease to remove the deposits. You can use one of
                                                                                                                                                            those scrubby type pads that is mildly abrasive (I forget what they are
                                                                                                                                                            called, but there is usually a clean one hanging around here) to help,

                                                                                                                                                            Do not use any soap or ammonia type cleansers. The vinegar and water combo
                                                                                                                                                            can be used to help clean the outside of the glass too.

                                                                                                                                                            There are also some products you can find at you local fish store (maybe)
                                                                                                                                                            that are specifically made for cleaning aquariums, and you may want to
                                                                                                                                                            investigate those.

                                                                                                                                                            Once you have a clean glass box, rinse it out with a bleach solution,
                                                                                                                                                            followed by a lot of plain water, or plain water and a chlorine remover.

                                                                                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                            P.S., I hope you thanked grandma for the tank. I have one ornament from my
                                                                                                                                                            grandmother's tank that I got when she passed. Her tank was around for quite
                                                                                                                                                            a while also, but I don't recall where that ended up.

                                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                            From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                            Behalf Of Rachel
                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 6:01 PM
                                                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] 20 gallon tank

                                                                                                                                                            i picked up a what i think is a 20 gallon tank from my grandmothers
                                                                                                                                                            house on sunday. umm. its kindaa dirrrrty how should i go about
                                                                                                                                                            cleanin it off n makin sure its usable?

                                                                                                                                                            so i was thinkin maybe get another kind of fancy goldfish to put in
                                                                                                                                                            there, maybe a calico telescope. theyre precious. what kind of
                                                                                                                                                            filtration system would i need for it, its 24 in length, 16 in depth,
                                                                                                                                                            12 in width

                                                                                                                                                            i was thinking powerfilter (dunno what kind) a bubble wand along the
                                                                                                                                                            bottom, probably spanning the whole 24 inches, and i was thinking
                                                                                                                                                            about using my undergravel filter if need be. since i will still have
                                                                                                                                                            it and all. would checking on the water once a week be enough?

                                                                                                                                                            and my black moore wont eat veggies. silly fishie.






                                                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                            the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                            subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                            in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10917 From: Lauri Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Midas Coloration
                                                                                                                                                            Hi Ray,

                                                                                                                                                            Yes, your response did answer a few confusing matters -
                                                                                                                                                            I didn't want to jump to conclusions about the nuchal hump
                                                                                                                                                            only being in males, as the info was unclear - so I am glad to
                                                                                                                                                            know this.

                                                                                                                                                            Also for the scale coloring, what you have said has helped
                                                                                                                                                            me understand what I have been seeing in the pictures on the
                                                                                                                                                            web. Many of these cichlids show "blotches" of differing
                                                                                                                                                            colored scales - such as this one here:

                                                                                                                                                            http://www.gcca.net/fom/Cichlasoma_citrinellum.htm

                                                                                                                                                            It's a bit disconcerting, as mine has been such a gorgeous,
                                                                                                                                                            vibrant orange - the color of orange sherbet!

                                                                                                                                                            I've done a bit more research today, and there are many
                                                                                                                                                            sites that say the Midas and the Red Devil are the same, but
                                                                                                                                                            there are some that say they are different species.

                                                                                                                                                            I was wondering your thoughts on the passage below, taken
                                                                                                                                                            from this site:
                                                                                                                                                            http://www.worldcichlids.com/fishprofiles/reddevil.html

                                                                                                                                                            "It is almost impossible in this day and age to find a pure
                                                                                                                                                            Red Devil at the local pet shop. Their extremely close genetic
                                                                                                                                                            relationship to A. citrinellum (Midas cichlid) means that cross-
                                                                                                                                                            breeding is rampant and almost every Red Devil offered for
                                                                                                                                                            sale from anyone other than a trusted breeder or importer
                                                                                                                                                            will contain at least some Citrinellum in its background somewhere.
                                                                                                                                                            These species do not really differ that much in looks and personality,
                                                                                                                                                            so the information in this profile is accurate for both pure Red Devils
                                                                                                                                                            and for Red Devils of more dubious backgrounds. The most common
                                                                                                                                                            means of differentiating between these two cichlids is their lips.
                                                                                                                                                            Red Devils tend to have thicker and more pointed lips, whereas
                                                                                                                                                            Midas Cichlids will have thinner and more rounded lips. This cannot
                                                                                                                                                            be relied on, however, to make a definite species differentiation,
                                                                                                                                                            due to the amount of crossbreeding. If you are after a pure Red
                                                                                                                                                            Devil, then your best option is to be very picky about who you buy
                                                                                                                                                            your fish from."

                                                                                                                                                            Some of the pics of Red Devils show very thick lips, and mine,
                                                                                                                                                            up to this point in life, has much thinner lips.

                                                                                                                                                            Hi Leslie, I appreciate your input, and will keep this in mind and
                                                                                                                                                            keep an eye on things. This fish is so neat, she always comes to the
                                                                                                                                                            glass to interact with us whenever we're close by.......and so far shows
                                                                                                                                                            no aggression whatsoever - she's in my community tank till she grows
                                                                                                                                                            up a bit more, and she gets along very well with all the other fish.
                                                                                                                                                            When she's big enough, she'll move in with our big cichlids.

                                                                                                                                                            Thanks to you both
                                                                                                                                                            Lauri T
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10918 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: new tank
                                                                                                                                                            Emily,

                                                                                                                                                            Before adding the gravel, I'd remove some of the water first. Tell you
                                                                                                                                                            husband he did good, running this leak test for you, now have him go back
                                                                                                                                                            and empty out the tank, or, at least, most of it. While he is doing that,
                                                                                                                                                            you can be rinsing the gravel, maybe using the water stream from the
                                                                                                                                                            aquarium while it lasts. Then add the gravel to the tank. Leaving the tank
                                                                                                                                                            full, or nearly full, of water may lead to some problems with splashing, and
                                                                                                                                                            even inadvertent spill over of the water, and I am sure you would like to
                                                                                                                                                            minimize that.

                                                                                                                                                            Once you have the gravel in, you can start adding your decorations. I just
                                                                                                                                                            had a thought, if you are going to terrace the tank, though with the pacu,
                                                                                                                                                            you may not want to do this, hold some gravel in reserve and build up your
                                                                                                                                                            wall, then fill in.

                                                                                                                                                            Add water, using as much as you can from the old tank. You are also going to
                                                                                                                                                            want to use some of the old gravel for the established bacteria colony it
                                                                                                                                                            contains.

                                                                                                                                                            Move over the heater. If you are going to clean it during the transfer, make
                                                                                                                                                            sure it is cool to the touch, and has been off for a while before the move.
                                                                                                                                                            Then just wipe it off. Unless you have some really stubborn algae clinging
                                                                                                                                                            to it, that should be enough.

                                                                                                                                                            Move the filter as is. Since you have used a good deal of water from this
                                                                                                                                                            tank, the filter has probably just been sitting around not doing anything,
                                                                                                                                                            not even twiddling its impellor <g>. Start up the filter to make sure it is
                                                                                                                                                            still working properly. Don't clean it, you'll want the bacteria growing in
                                                                                                                                                            it.

                                                                                                                                                            Move the fish. Use a large plastic fish bag sufficient for the size of the
                                                                                                                                                            fish. If you don't have any hanging around, check with your LFS. Offer to
                                                                                                                                                            buy it. If you are a decent customer, though, they'll likely just give it to
                                                                                                                                                            you. The tricky part comes now. You'll want to herd the fish into the bag.
                                                                                                                                                            Your fish will know something is up, but with the reduced water level,
                                                                                                                                                            you'll probably have the upper hand. Still, it may take several attempts to
                                                                                                                                                            get him into that bag. Then, holding the open end shut, transfer to the new
                                                                                                                                                            tank. After Mr. Pacu has been moved, proceed with your other fish.

                                                                                                                                                            Brands? Well, I am still using Supreme heaters that are approaching 40 years
                                                                                                                                                            old or more. I like them. I also like Ebo Jager heaters. I'd also go with a
                                                                                                                                                            two heater scenario with a large tank like yours. If we use the old canard
                                                                                                                                                            of 5 watts per gallon, you'd get two 100 watt heaters for the tank. This
                                                                                                                                                            way, if one decides that it is a good day for bouillabaisse, it will not be
                                                                                                                                                            able to accomplish the task of making fish soup. On the other hand, if one
                                                                                                                                                            should roll over and die, the other one may struggle, but it can keep the
                                                                                                                                                            temperature within an acceptable range for your fish.

                                                                                                                                                            You'll probably want to go with a canister filter, and I am partial to
                                                                                                                                                            Eheim, but they are pricey. I also like the Magnum line by Marineland.
                                                                                                                                                            Fluval had a lousy reputation for a while--there were problems with O-rings
                                                                                                                                                            and leakage, but, from what I have heard, they have much improved, but it
                                                                                                                                                            will be a while before I would sly consider one.

                                                                                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                            ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                            From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                            Behalf Of kb1dva
                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 5:02 PM
                                                                                                                                                            To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank



                                                                                                                                                            I lost my hard drive so I'll ask again.



                                                                                                                                                            I have my 90 gallon tank filled. No gravel just water. Hubby went ahead and
                                                                                                                                                            did this. What happens next gravel and decorations? Filters and fish? The
                                                                                                                                                            thought of moving my big pacu makes me nervous. I have a heater from an old
                                                                                                                                                            tank and was thinking of warming up the water that way. The tank will have
                                                                                                                                                            gravel tomorrow. The old filter stays until I can afford a better one. Any
                                                                                                                                                            thoughts on what kind are the best, types and brands would be helpful. How
                                                                                                                                                            do I clean the heater, and I want to use all new gravel is that ok any hips
                                                                                                                                                            are appreciated thanks Emily
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10919 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I almost forgot
                                                                                                                                                            have 2 pieces of 1/4" plexi glass cut to fit in the tracks of the tank, or one big piece to cover the top...

                                                                                                                                                            Can also knotch/cut it to accomedate filters, heaters etc...


                                                                                                                                                            rob
                                                                                                                                                            IndianA

                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 5/2/2005 4:06:25 PM US Eastern Standard Time, vze3pd7a@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                            Since lights are expensive what is good to use as a temporary cover. I have 2 cats and 2 dogs you never know who wants a fish dinner. Yes I know that’s not really funny Emily


                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10920 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: was:Hi again I need ...(playsand)
                                                                                                                                                            depth of substrate will be depicked by fish you plan on keeping and filter system..
                                                                                                                                                            Your Playsand should be fine...... make sure to rinse it  in a bucket to get all the dust off of it.


                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 5/2/2005 4:20:22 PM US Eastern Standard Time, muffin4494@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                            Hi  Can  anyone tell me " What kind of play sand I can use." In my 55
                                                                                                                                                            ga tank.

                                                                                                                                                                   I have " Kiddlies fun  play sand" It is orange and gress lable
                                                                                                                                                            on it. It all so say on it " Ideal for building and mounding"
                                                                                                                                                            Can I usa this sand.

                                                                                                                                                                   And how much sand should I ues for my 55 ga tank.



                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10921 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                            Rachel,
                                                                                                                                                            quick question..
                                                                                                                                                            does this tank have a steel frame around it?

                                                                                                                                                            just curious  :-)

                                                                                                                                                            rob
                                                                                                                                                            Indiana





                                                                                                                                                            Rachel,

                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10922 From: paul helms Date: 5/2/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: new tank
                                                                                                                                                            up to date fluval info-
                                                                                                                                                            not directed at steve, but an addition by someone who
                                                                                                                                                            has used the new models. the new models of fluvals
                                                                                                                                                            have a great design. they no longer rely upon a round
                                                                                                                                                            cannister with an o ring, but are now square . two
                                                                                                                                                            large clamps are used to hold on the top. on top of
                                                                                                                                                            the lid there are 2 levers that operate together, one
                                                                                                                                                            stopping flow from the hoses and one from the filter,
                                                                                                                                                            so that there is no dripping when cleaning the
                                                                                                                                                            cannister from either the cannister or teh hoses
                                                                                                                                                            themselves. they also have a priming bar to pump out
                                                                                                                                                            air before restarting, and the 3 baskets are great to
                                                                                                                                                            use any media that you choose. whether it is
                                                                                                                                                            bioballs/beads, carbon, peat, amrid, sponge, etc is up
                                                                                                                                                            to you. they also use 4 prefilter sponges which is
                                                                                                                                                            nice. the drawbacks arethat the float on the uplift
                                                                                                                                                            tube is easily disturbed, and can be a pain in the a*s
                                                                                                                                                            when repositioning, but once in place it is not going
                                                                                                                                                            to be a problem. the other draw back is that the
                                                                                                                                                            cannister will leak if tilted. it does not leak while
                                                                                                                                                            running, but if you have to lay it sideways to get it
                                                                                                                                                            under your tak or where ever you place it, there will
                                                                                                                                                            be a dribble.
                                                                                                                                                            good luck with any that you choose! they are all
                                                                                                                                                            pretty good right now. rena air also has a good one.
                                                                                                                                                            i currently use a fluval 104 on a 7 gallon minibow
                                                                                                                                                            nano reef, and service many tanks with the 204,304,and
                                                                                                                                                            404 models.
                                                                                                                                                            cannisters are a great way to go
                                                                                                                                                            paul
                                                                                                                                                            --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > Emily,
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Before adding the gravel, I'd remove some of the
                                                                                                                                                            > water first. Tell you
                                                                                                                                                            > husband he did good, running this leak test for you,
                                                                                                                                                            > now have him go back
                                                                                                                                                            > and empty out the tank, or, at least, most of it.
                                                                                                                                                            > While he is doing that,
                                                                                                                                                            > you can be rinsing the gravel, maybe using the water
                                                                                                                                                            > stream from the
                                                                                                                                                            > aquarium while it lasts. Then add the gravel to the
                                                                                                                                                            > tank. Leaving the tank
                                                                                                                                                            > full, or nearly full, of water may lead to some
                                                                                                                                                            > problems with splashing, and
                                                                                                                                                            > even inadvertent spill over of the water, and I am
                                                                                                                                                            > sure you would like to
                                                                                                                                                            > minimize that.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Once you have the gravel in, you can start adding
                                                                                                                                                            > your decorations. I just
                                                                                                                                                            > had a thought, if you are going to terrace the tank,
                                                                                                                                                            > though with the pacu,
                                                                                                                                                            > you may not want to do this, hold some gravel in
                                                                                                                                                            > reserve and build up your
                                                                                                                                                            > wall, then fill in.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Add water, using as much as you can from the old
                                                                                                                                                            > tank. You are also going to
                                                                                                                                                            > want to use some of the old gravel for the
                                                                                                                                                            > established bacteria colony it
                                                                                                                                                            > contains.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Move over the heater. If you are going to clean it
                                                                                                                                                            > during the transfer, make
                                                                                                                                                            > sure it is cool to the touch, and has been off for a
                                                                                                                                                            > while before the move.
                                                                                                                                                            > Then just wipe it off. Unless you have some really
                                                                                                                                                            > stubborn algae clinging
                                                                                                                                                            > to it, that should be enough.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Move the filter as is. Since you have used a good
                                                                                                                                                            > deal of water from this
                                                                                                                                                            > tank, the filter has probably just been sitting
                                                                                                                                                            > around not doing anything,
                                                                                                                                                            > not even twiddling its impellor <g>. Start up the
                                                                                                                                                            > filter to make sure it is
                                                                                                                                                            > still working properly. Don't clean it, you'll want
                                                                                                                                                            > the bacteria growing in
                                                                                                                                                            > it.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Move the fish. Use a large plastic fish bag
                                                                                                                                                            > sufficient for the size of the
                                                                                                                                                            > fish. If you don't have any hanging around, check
                                                                                                                                                            > with your LFS. Offer to
                                                                                                                                                            > buy it. If you are a decent customer, though,
                                                                                                                                                            > they'll likely just give it to
                                                                                                                                                            > you. The tricky part comes now. You'll want to herd
                                                                                                                                                            > the fish into the bag.
                                                                                                                                                            > Your fish will know something is up, but with the
                                                                                                                                                            > reduced water level,
                                                                                                                                                            > you'll probably have the upper hand. Still, it may
                                                                                                                                                            > take several attempts to
                                                                                                                                                            > get him into that bag. Then, holding the open end
                                                                                                                                                            > shut, transfer to the new
                                                                                                                                                            > tank. After Mr. Pacu has been moved, proceed with
                                                                                                                                                            > your other fish.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Brands? Well, I am still using Supreme heaters that
                                                                                                                                                            > are approaching 40 years
                                                                                                                                                            > old or more. I like them. I also like Ebo Jager
                                                                                                                                                            > heaters. I'd also go with a
                                                                                                                                                            > two heater scenario with a large tank like yours. If
                                                                                                                                                            > we use the old canard
                                                                                                                                                            > of 5 watts per gallon, you'd get two 100 watt
                                                                                                                                                            > heaters for the tank. This
                                                                                                                                                            > way, if one decides that it is a good day for
                                                                                                                                                            > bouillabaisse, it will not be
                                                                                                                                                            > able to accomplish the task of making fish soup. On
                                                                                                                                                            > the other hand, if one
                                                                                                                                                            > should roll over and die, the other one may
                                                                                                                                                            > struggle, but it can keep the
                                                                                                                                                            > temperature within an acceptable range for your
                                                                                                                                                            > fish.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > You'll probably want to go with a canister filter,
                                                                                                                                                            > and I am partial to
                                                                                                                                                            > Eheim, but they are pricey. I also like the Magnum
                                                                                                                                                            > line by Marineland.
                                                                                                                                                            > Fluval had a lousy reputation for a while--there
                                                                                                                                                            > were problems with O-rings
                                                                                                                                                            > and leakage, but, from what I have heard, they have
                                                                                                                                                            > much improved, but it
                                                                                                                                                            > will be a while before I would sly consider one.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                            > Behalf Of kb1dva
                                                                                                                                                            > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 5:02 PM
                                                                                                                                                            > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            > Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I lost my hard drive so I'll ask again.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I have my 90 gallon tank filled. No gravel just
                                                                                                                                                            > water. Hubby went ahead and
                                                                                                                                                            > did this. What happens next gravel and decorations?
                                                                                                                                                            > Filters and fish? The
                                                                                                                                                            > thought of moving my big pacu makes me nervous. I
                                                                                                                                                            > have a heater from an old
                                                                                                                                                            > tank and was thinking of warming up the water that
                                                                                                                                                            > way. The tank will have
                                                                                                                                                            > gravel tomorrow. The old filter stays until I can
                                                                                                                                                            > afford a better one. Any
                                                                                                                                                            > thoughts on what kind are the best, types and brands
                                                                                                                                                            > would be helpful. How
                                                                                                                                                            > do I clean the heater, and I want to use all new
                                                                                                                                                            > gravel is that ok any hips
                                                                                                                                                            > are appreciated thanks Emily
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >

                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10923 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: was:Hi again I need ...(playsand)
                                                                                                                                                            > > Hi Can anyone tell me " What kind of play sand I can use." In my
                                                                                                                                                            55
                                                                                                                                                            > > ga tank.
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > I have " Kiddlies fun play sand" It is orange and gress
                                                                                                                                                            lable
                                                                                                                                                            > > on it. It all so say on it " Ideal for building and mounding"
                                                                                                                                                            > > Can I usa this sand.

                                                                                                                                                            Ummm...that depends...you say bright orange...if this is the play sand
                                                                                                                                                            that is coated with an oily/silicone lubricant spray, then NO! just
                                                                                                                                                            regular washed play sand should be fine. I like a depth of 3 inches in
                                                                                                                                                            the front of the tank for a planting medium, and about 5 inches in the
                                                                                                                                                            back of the tank.
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10924 From: kb1dva Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: the big move

                                                                                                                                                            Good morning everyone!. My plan of attack this morning in regards to the fish. Is to buy new gravel I didn’t like what was in there anyway and since it came from a much smaller tank  there’s not enough to worry about. – So off to pet smart for more gravel. –and then lots of gravel washing. I have an old tank that was a disaster I will wash the heather from it, with bleach? Rinse and use it to start warming the new tank transfer decorations – no cleaning right. And I will is the aerator from the old tank, then let it sit another day or 2 .Last but not least come the filter and the fish. Charlie the picu has been eyeing the tank ever since it was but in the living room, if I listen carefully I can almost hear him humming “were moving on up to the east side to that deluxe aquarium”. Since money is tight I will use 2 systems for aeration until I can replace and the filter should hold up. I will sell the 20 long to help buy new lights etc. how much should I try to get for a 20 long with all the accessories, I will include anything not practical for the 90 gallon. Before I forget what do you people think of pythons for moving water. I have learned my lesson all info gets printed, in case of computer meltdown        Emily

                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                            The smaller fish should be no problem to move right; I’m excited to finally be moving foreword

                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10925 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Midas Coloration
                                                                                                                                                            Hi Lauri, First, to clear up the name confusion, there are two
                                                                                                                                                            species that are called "Red Devils", Cichlasoma (Amphilophus)
                                                                                                                                                            citrinellum and C. (A.) labiatum, both having been given this name
                                                                                                                                                            when first introduced into the hobby (the reason why the name sticks
                                                                                                                                                            for both species). More and more recently, C, citrinellum is being
                                                                                                                                                            referred to as the "Midas Cichlid", which somewhat reduces the
                                                                                                                                                            confusion, but the name "Red Devil" still sticks to both species.
                                                                                                                                                            Actually, C. labiatum is much more frequently seen as red (it too,
                                                                                                                                                            has various color morphs). The Labiatum is a slightly smaller fish
                                                                                                                                                            averaging 10" to 12". Incidentally, adding to what I said yesterday
                                                                                                                                                            on the size of Citrinellum, I'd have to say their average size is
                                                                                                                                                            more like at least 15" -- I've seen several specimens of 20", one
                                                                                                                                                            belonging to a friend and fellow club member. It's only the males
                                                                                                                                                            that will get this size.
                                                                                                                                                            \
                                                                                                                                                            As these two species are closely related, and partially because they
                                                                                                                                                            are both known as "Red Devils", they have been indiscriminantly
                                                                                                                                                            interbred, especially in the Far East where many aquarium species are
                                                                                                                                                            mass produced (cheaper) and imported for the trade here. This is not
                                                                                                                                                            to say that "most" of these two species are only to be found as
                                                                                                                                                            interbred specimens, as Cichlid hobbyists in this country prefer not
                                                                                                                                                            to cross breed them. Most of what else is outlined below is true
                                                                                                                                                            including that fact the its only the Labiatum that has the thick
                                                                                                                                                            lips, as reference to the name implies (in Latin).
                                                                                                                                                            \
                                                                                                                                                            Getting back to the scale coloring, many youngsters of the species
                                                                                                                                                            you have (regardless of color morph) hatch out and REMAIN brownish-
                                                                                                                                                            gray, a natural coloration to ensure survival in the wild, with a
                                                                                                                                                            certain percentage of them carrying their morph's genes of which a
                                                                                                                                                            certain percentage of their offspring in the next generation appear
                                                                                                                                                            as that color morph. As your fish is colored from a very young age,
                                                                                                                                                            it is still very possible that it will retain that coloration when
                                                                                                                                                            fully mature. Quite often, these brown blotches appear in the
                                                                                                                                                            juveniles, only to disappear as the fish matures. So there's still
                                                                                                                                                            hope, but keep in mind that, your fish being a female, it is somewhat
                                                                                                                                                            less likely to do this than a male. Leslie's input is to be
                                                                                                                                                            appreciated as it at least shows concern, but fortunately I don't
                                                                                                                                                            feel its relevent here; I don't see this as a disease. I'm glad to
                                                                                                                                                            note that you've seen other such pictures of this phenomenon on the
                                                                                                                                                            web. Again, Hope this clears things up for you. Ray
                                                                                                                                                            \
                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lauri" <aktahi@3...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > Hi Ray,
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Yes, your response did answer a few confusing matters -
                                                                                                                                                            > I didn't want to jump to conclusions about the nuchal hump
                                                                                                                                                            > only being in males, as the info was unclear - so I am glad to
                                                                                                                                                            > know this.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Also for the scale coloring, what you have said has helped
                                                                                                                                                            > me understand what I have been seeing in the pictures on the
                                                                                                                                                            > web. Many of these cichlids show "blotches" of differing
                                                                                                                                                            > colored scales - such as this one here:
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > http://www.gcca.net/fom/Cichlasoma_citrinellum.htm
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > It's a bit disconcerting, as mine has been such a gorgeous,
                                                                                                                                                            > vibrant orange - the color of orange sherbet!
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I've done a bit more research today, and there are many
                                                                                                                                                            > sites that say the Midas and the Red Devil are the same, but
                                                                                                                                                            > there are some that say they are different species.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I was wondering your thoughts on the passage below, taken
                                                                                                                                                            > from this site:
                                                                                                                                                            > http://www.worldcichlids.com/fishprofiles/reddevil.html
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > "It is almost impossible in this day and age to find a pure
                                                                                                                                                            > Red Devil at the local pet shop. Their extremely close genetic
                                                                                                                                                            > relationship to A. citrinellum (Midas cichlid) means that cross-
                                                                                                                                                            > breeding is rampant and almost every Red Devil offered for
                                                                                                                                                            > sale from anyone other than a trusted breeder or importer
                                                                                                                                                            > will contain at least some Citrinellum in its background somewhere.
                                                                                                                                                            > These species do not really differ that much in looks and
                                                                                                                                                            personality,
                                                                                                                                                            > so the information in this profile is accurate for both pure Red
                                                                                                                                                            Devils
                                                                                                                                                            > and for Red Devils of more dubious backgrounds. The most common
                                                                                                                                                            > means of differentiating between these two cichlids is their lips.
                                                                                                                                                            > Red Devils tend to have thicker and more pointed lips, whereas
                                                                                                                                                            > Midas Cichlids will have thinner and more rounded lips. This cannot
                                                                                                                                                            > be relied on, however, to make a definite species differentiation,
                                                                                                                                                            > due to the amount of crossbreeding. If you are after a pure Red
                                                                                                                                                            > Devil, then your best option is to be very picky about who you buy
                                                                                                                                                            > your fish from."
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Some of the pics of Red Devils show very thick lips, and mine,
                                                                                                                                                            > up to this point in life, has much thinner lips.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Hi Leslie, I appreciate your input, and will keep this in mind
                                                                                                                                                            and
                                                                                                                                                            > keep an eye on things. This fish is so neat, she always comes to
                                                                                                                                                            the
                                                                                                                                                            > glass to interact with us whenever we're close by.......and so far
                                                                                                                                                            shows
                                                                                                                                                            > no aggression whatsoever - she's in my community tank till she
                                                                                                                                                            grows
                                                                                                                                                            > up a bit more, and she gets along very well with all the other
                                                                                                                                                            fish.
                                                                                                                                                            > When she's big enough, she'll move in with our big cichlids.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Thanks to you both
                                                                                                                                                            > Lauri T
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10926 From: AL Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Snails
                                                                                                                                                            Hello,
                                                                                                                                                            My wifes tanks has snails that came from some plants we bought and
                                                                                                                                                            she hates them. Is there any way to get rid of them and there slim
                                                                                                                                                            sacs without draining the tank?
                                                                                                                                                            Al K.
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10927 From: Charlene Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                            Hi, Ok I just got my sand. But now I want to know if your can mix it
                                                                                                                                                            with crushed coral and live sand too. Can I keep live sand in
                                                                                                                                                            something for I set up my 55 ga tank. So how mush live sand should I
                                                                                                                                                            buy for a 55 ga tank. If i can put live sand in it. Thank you for
                                                                                                                                                            helping me again Charlene muffin4494@...
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10928 From: eric douglas Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                            I got a clown loach and the snail disapereared, now I
                                                                                                                                                            wish I had more. He looks hungry. LOL
                                                                                                                                                            --- AL <ALKILLIAN@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                            > My wifes tanks has snails that came from some
                                                                                                                                                            > plants we bought and
                                                                                                                                                            > she hates them. Is there any way to get rid of them
                                                                                                                                                            > and there slim
                                                                                                                                                            > sacs without draining the tank?
                                                                                                                                                            > Al K.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >

                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                            Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10929 From: paul helms Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                            if you are buying live sand, there is no reason to get
                                                                                                                                                            regualr sand. 2 bags live sand and 1 bag crushed
                                                                                                                                                            coral is pefect. it is silly to put play sand or teh
                                                                                                                                                            like in salt water when everything that you need is
                                                                                                                                                            already ion the bag.
                                                                                                                                                            --- Charlene <muffin4494@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > Hi, Ok I just got my sand. But now I want to know if
                                                                                                                                                            > your can mix it
                                                                                                                                                            > with crushed coral and live sand too. Can I keep
                                                                                                                                                            > live sand in
                                                                                                                                                            > something for I set up my 55 ga tank. So how mush
                                                                                                                                                            > live sand should I
                                                                                                                                                            > buy for a 55 ga tank. If i can put live sand in it.
                                                                                                                                                            > Thank you for
                                                                                                                                                            > helping me again Charlene muffin4494@...
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >

                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10930 From: paul helms Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                            clown loaches, ghost shrimp and a pleco should do it.
                                                                                                                                                            teh loache swilll eat small snails and the other two
                                                                                                                                                            will eat egg sacks.
                                                                                                                                                            --- AL <ALKILLIAN@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                            > My wifes tanks has snails that came from some
                                                                                                                                                            > plants we bought and
                                                                                                                                                            > she hates them. Is there any way to get rid of them
                                                                                                                                                            > and there slim
                                                                                                                                                            > sacs without draining the tank?
                                                                                                                                                            > Al K.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >

                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                            Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                                            http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10931 From: paul helms Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: anyone need equipment to set up salt water?
                                                                                                                                                            hey everyone,
                                                                                                                                                            i am selling off a whole bunch of used Salt Water
                                                                                                                                                            equipment, basically a 110 and a 55 gallon setup.
                                                                                                                                                            everything but sand rock and fish. if anyone is
                                                                                                                                                            interested drop me an e mail offf list, this is my off
                                                                                                                                                            list address: Morlok@...
                                                                                                                                                            i am in ca
                                                                                                                                                            ttyl paul

                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                            Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                                            http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10932 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                            easy answer....No
                                                                                                                                                            Only possitive way to get rid of the snails would be to drain tank, throw everything from the tank out. Plants,gravel,decorations,filter. and start over.
                                                                                                                                                            And then clean the tank in a  bleach solution.  Rinse very well and start over.

                                                                                                                                                            Ok now for the good news... You can Control the snails in time.
                                                                                                                                                            1. Bait the snails: take a piece of lettuce and put in small bowl  in a few hours take the bowl out and crush all the snails on the lettuce. After doing this for a few weeks you will have snails but not that many.
                                                                                                                                                            2. If tank space and fish compatibility permits find a nice Botia loach
                                                                                                                                                            3.squish the little suckers everytime they get to the top of the tank
                                                                                                                                                              these 3 things when combined will help you control the snails..

                                                                                                                                                            theres more ways to help control them but those are the easiest ways.

                                                                                                                                                            rob
                                                                                                                                                            Indiana


                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 5/3/2005 11:58:06 AM US Eastern Standard Time, ALKILLIAN@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                            Hello,
                                                                                                                                                               My wifes tanks has snails that came from some plants we bought and
                                                                                                                                                            she hates them. Is there any way to get rid of them and there slim
                                                                                                                                                            sacs without draining the tank?
                                                                                                                                                            Al K.


                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10933 From: Rachel Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                            no it doesnt, its got this removable wooden one, looks nice though,
                                                                                                                                                            but i need to find a top for it, i was thinkin bout gettn my dad to
                                                                                                                                                            help me make one, hes a construction worker.

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, FortWayneFish@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > Rachel,
                                                                                                                                                            > quick question..
                                                                                                                                                            > does this tank have a steel frame around it?
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > just curious :-)
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > rob
                                                                                                                                                            > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10934 From: Rachel Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                            what exactly is a bleach solution?

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > Rachel,
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Depends on the kind of dirt.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Use a damp cloth to wipe it down first, to get rid of all the dust
                                                                                                                                                            and some
                                                                                                                                                            > of the loose stuff.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > If the dirt is really caked on, try a single edged razor blade to
                                                                                                                                                            scrape it
                                                                                                                                                            > off, but be real careful around the seams as you do not want to
                                                                                                                                                            break the
                                                                                                                                                            > silicone seal.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > If you have mineral deposits on the glass, use a mixture of
                                                                                                                                                            vinegar and
                                                                                                                                                            > water and lots of elbow grease to remove the deposits. You can use
                                                                                                                                                            one of
                                                                                                                                                            > those scrubby type pads that is mildly abrasive (I forget what
                                                                                                                                                            they are
                                                                                                                                                            > called, but there is usually a clean one hanging around here) to
                                                                                                                                                            help,
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Do not use any soap or ammonia type cleansers. The vinegar and
                                                                                                                                                            water combo
                                                                                                                                                            > can be used to help clean the outside of the glass too.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > There are also some products you can find at you local fish store
                                                                                                                                                            (maybe)
                                                                                                                                                            > that are specifically made for cleaning aquariums, and you may
                                                                                                                                                            want to
                                                                                                                                                            > investigate those.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Once you have a clean glass box, rinse it out with a bleach
                                                                                                                                                            solution,
                                                                                                                                                            > followed by a lot of plain water, or plain water and a chlorine
                                                                                                                                                            remover.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > P.S., I hope you thanked grandma for the tank. I have one ornament
                                                                                                                                                            from my
                                                                                                                                                            > grandmother's tank that I got when she passed. Her tank was around
                                                                                                                                                            for quite
                                                                                                                                                            > a while also, but I don't recall where that ended up.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                            > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                            > Behalf Of Rachel
                                                                                                                                                            > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 6:01 PM
                                                                                                                                                            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            > Subject: [AquaticLife] 20 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > i picked up a what i think is a 20 gallon tank from my
                                                                                                                                                            grandmothers
                                                                                                                                                            > house on sunday. umm. its kindaa dirrrrty how should i go about
                                                                                                                                                            > cleanin it off n makin sure its usable?
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > so i was thinkin maybe get another kind of fancy goldfish to put
                                                                                                                                                            in
                                                                                                                                                            > there, maybe a calico telescope. theyre precious. what kind of
                                                                                                                                                            > filtration system would i need for it, its 24 in length, 16 in
                                                                                                                                                            depth,
                                                                                                                                                            > 12 in width
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > i was thinking powerfilter (dunno what kind) a bubble wand along
                                                                                                                                                            the
                                                                                                                                                            > bottom, probably spanning the whole 24 inches, and i was thinking
                                                                                                                                                            > about using my undergravel filter if need be. since i will still
                                                                                                                                                            have
                                                                                                                                                            > it and all. would checking on the water once a week be enough?
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > and my black moore wont eat veggies. silly fishie.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                            thanks
                                                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                            important to
                                                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                                                            the
                                                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                            Thank You
                                                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10935 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: algae eaters

                                                                                                                                                            I got rid of my two giant plecos.  The last one about a month ago.  I figure it’s about time to get something to start eating this stuff but I REALLY do NOT want a plecostamus.  I think they are so nasty.

                                                                                                                                                            I thought about the Chinese algae eaters, but I am fairly certain they will be munched as they are purchased young and small.  (they are the size of our feeder fish.)

                                                                                                                                                            Any other suggestions?  Do I have to have an algae eater or can I do without one somehow?  If I get plecos, I’ve been advised to get two small ones.  When they grow to about 5”, I’m to turn in one to LFS and keep the other.  Then repeat this as the other grows too large.  But again, I don’t want plecos.  They are so contaminating!

                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                            Leslie

                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10936 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: coffee cups in tanks?

                                                                                                                                                            One more question:

                                                                                                                                                            Would it be OK to put a coffee cup in the tank as a hiding spot?  Just your everyday run-of-the-mill mug.  Like those from Starbucks. 

                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10937 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                            i use 1/2 cup bleach to 1 gallon water as a mild solution...
                                                                                                                                                            make sure to rinse well and air dry before filling for fish....

                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 5/3/2005 2:11:26 PM US Eastern Standard Time, star9crystal@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                            what exactly is a bleach solution?
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10938 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                            from what i've heard plecs don't do such a great job of algae eating as they mature. so maybe
                                                                                                                                                            they're not a good idea for you anyway. maybe you could try the tank w/o an algae eater and see
                                                                                                                                                            how it works. if algae develops then you can look into more algae eaters or clean it off w/a
                                                                                                                                                            magnet or a tank brush. just my thoughts.

                                                                                                                                                            --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                            > I got rid of my two giant plecos. The last one about a month ago. I
                                                                                                                                                            > figure it's about time to get something to start eating this stuff but I
                                                                                                                                                            > REALLY do NOT want a plecostamus. I think they are so nasty.
                                                                                                                                                            > I thought about the Chinese algae eaters, but I am fairly certain they
                                                                                                                                                            > will be munched as they are purchased young and small. (they are the
                                                                                                                                                            > size of our feeder fish.)
                                                                                                                                                            > Any other suggestions? Do I have to have an algae eater or can I do
                                                                                                                                                            > without one somehow? If I get plecos, I've been advised to get two
                                                                                                                                                            > small ones. When they grow to about 5", I'm to turn in one to LFS and
                                                                                                                                                            > keep the other. Then repeat this as the other grows too large. But
                                                                                                                                                            > again, I don't want plecos. They are so contaminating!
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Leslie
                                                                                                                                                            >


                                                                                                                                                            I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10939 From: Ron Hansen Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                            Um... Bleach and Water. Say 1 part bleach to 4 parts water.

                                                                                                                                                            Make sure you rinse thoroughly afterward and air dry completely -
                                                                                                                                                            preferably in the sun.

                                                                                                                                                            If you have mineral deposits, you can use vinegar to clean them. Again,
                                                                                                                                                            rinse thoroughly.



                                                                                                                                                            Rachel said:
                                                                                                                                                            > what exactly is a bleach solution?
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            >> Rachel,
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >> Depends on the kind of dirt.
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >> Use a damp cloth to wipe it down first, to get rid of all the dust
                                                                                                                                                            > and some
                                                                                                                                                            >> of the loose stuff.
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >> If the dirt is really caked on, try a single edged razor blade to
                                                                                                                                                            > scrape it
                                                                                                                                                            >> off, but be real careful around the seams as you do not want to
                                                                                                                                                            > break the
                                                                                                                                                            >> silicone seal.
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >> If you have mineral deposits on the glass, use a mixture of
                                                                                                                                                            > vinegar and
                                                                                                                                                            >> water and lots of elbow grease to remove the deposits. You can use
                                                                                                                                                            > one of
                                                                                                                                                            >> those scrubby type pads that is mildly abrasive (I forget what
                                                                                                                                                            > they are
                                                                                                                                                            >> called, but there is usually a clean one hanging around here) to
                                                                                                                                                            > help,
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >> Do not use any soap or ammonia type cleansers. The vinegar and
                                                                                                                                                            > water combo
                                                                                                                                                            >> can be used to help clean the outside of the glass too.
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >> There are also some products you can find at you local fish store
                                                                                                                                                            > (maybe)
                                                                                                                                                            >> that are specifically made for cleaning aquariums, and you may
                                                                                                                                                            > want to
                                                                                                                                                            >> investigate those.
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >> Once you have a clean glass box, rinse it out with a bleach
                                                                                                                                                            > solution,
                                                                                                                                                            >> followed by a lot of plain water, or plain water and a chlorine
                                                                                                                                                            > remover.
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >> \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >> P.S., I hope you thanked grandma for the tank. I have one ornament
                                                                                                                                                            > from my
                                                                                                                                                            >> grandmother's tank that I got when she passed. Her tank was around
                                                                                                                                                            > for quite
                                                                                                                                                            >> a while also, but I don't recall where that ended up.
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >> -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                            >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                            >> Behalf Of Rachel
                                                                                                                                                            >> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 6:01 PM
                                                                                                                                                            >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            >> Subject: [AquaticLife] 20 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >> i picked up a what i think is a 20 gallon tank from my
                                                                                                                                                            > grandmothers
                                                                                                                                                            >> house on sunday. umm. its kindaa dirrrrty how should i go about
                                                                                                                                                            >> cleanin it off n makin sure its usable?
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >> so i was thinkin maybe get another kind of fancy goldfish to put
                                                                                                                                                            > in
                                                                                                                                                            >> there, maybe a calico telescope. theyre precious. what kind of
                                                                                                                                                            >> filtration system would i need for it, its 24 in length, 16 in
                                                                                                                                                            > depth,
                                                                                                                                                            >> 12 in width
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >> i was thinking powerfilter (dunno what kind) a bubble wand along
                                                                                                                                                            > the
                                                                                                                                                            >> bottom, probably spanning the whole 24 inches, and i was thinking
                                                                                                                                                            >> about using my undergravel filter if need be. since i will still
                                                                                                                                                            > have
                                                                                                                                                            >> it and all. would checking on the water once a week be enough?
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >> and my black moore wont eat veggies. silly fishie.
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                            >> Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                            > thanks
                                                                                                                                                            >> .
                                                                                                                                                            >> Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                            > important to
                                                                                                                                                            >> the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                                                            > the
                                                                                                                                                            >> subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                            > Thank You
                                                                                                                                                            >> in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10940 From: Eric Miner Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Best on-line plant dealer?
                                                                                                                                                            Hello All,

                                                                                                                                                            I'm trying to find the most reputable on-line aquarium plant dealers.
                                                                                                                                                            I'm looking for quality and selection. Please post your opinions and
                                                                                                                                                            experiences.

                                                                                                                                                            Thanks

                                                                                                                                                            Eric
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10941 From: Rosahoic Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Best on-line plant dealer?
                                                                                                                                                            Hi Eric,

                                                                                                                                                            There is a dealer I use on Ebay that I really like. His user id
                                                                                                                                                            is "aquatic6414". His store address is:

                                                                                                                                                            http://stores.ebay.com/Aquarium-and-Pond-Plants

                                                                                                                                                            I like him because he does Aquarium Assortments like the list below,
                                                                                                                                                            where you get more plants for your buck:

                                                                                                                                                            http://stores.ebay.com/Aquarium-and-Pond-Plants_Aquarium-
                                                                                                                                                            Assortments_W0QQcolZ2QQdirZ1QQftidZ2QQtZkm

                                                                                                                                                            But also he has some unique plants too. His website is:

                                                                                                                                                            http://www.aquaticplantdepot.com/index.html

                                                                                                                                                            --
                                                                                                                                                            Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                                                            Alan
                                                                                                                                                            --
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                                                                                                                                                            > Hello All,
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I'm trying to find the most reputable on-line aquarium plant dealers.
                                                                                                                                                            > I'm looking for quality and selection. Please post your opinions and
                                                                                                                                                            > experiences.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Eric
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                            --
                                                                                                                                                            Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                                                            Alan
                                                                                                                                                            --
                                                                                                                                                            Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                                                            http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                                                            -----
                                                                                                                                                            *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com.
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                                                                                                                                                            AntiqueRoses
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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10942 From: TankGurl Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: coffee cups in tanks?
                                                                                                                                                            On 5/3/05, Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > One more question:
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Would it be OK to put a coffee cup in the tank as a hiding spot? Just your
                                                                                                                                                            > everyday run-of-the-mill mug. Like those from Starbucks.

                                                                                                                                                            You know, I don't think I'd take the risk. The cup could have a
                                                                                                                                                            soluble paint that might leech into the tank. Try those little clay
                                                                                                                                                            pots for plants. Those work very well with no risk and you can buy
                                                                                                                                                            them at any size.

                                                                                                                                                            --
                                                                                                                                                            65g Malawi
                                                                                                                                                            http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?fish_gurl
                                                                                                                                                            http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=7176

                                                                                                                                                            135g Frontosa
                                                                                                                                                            http://www.picturetrail.com/tankgurl
                                                                                                                                                            http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=8011
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10943 From: wjcoldman Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: anyone need equipment to set up salt water?
                                                                                                                                                            Paul, if you could post what you have that would help. I might be
                                                                                                                                                            intrested in some items.

                                                                                                                                                            walter


                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > hey everyone,
                                                                                                                                                            > i am selling off a whole bunch of used Salt Water
                                                                                                                                                            > equipment, basically a 110 and a 55 gallon setup.
                                                                                                                                                            > everything but sand rock and fish. if anyone is
                                                                                                                                                            > interested drop me an e mail offf list, this is my off
                                                                                                                                                            > list address: Morlok@c...
                                                                                                                                                            > i am in ca
                                                                                                                                                            > ttyl paul
                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10944 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: coffee cups in tanks?
                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 5/3/2005 2:18:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fishgoddess@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                            One more question:
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Would it be OK to put a coffee cup in the tank as a hiding spot?  Just your
                                                                                                                                                            > everyday run-of-the-mill mug.  Like those from Starbucks. 

                                                                                                                                                            You know, I don't think I'd take the risk. The cup could have a
                                                                                                                                                            soluble paint that might leech into the tank. Try those little clay
                                                                                                                                                            pots for plants. Those work very well with no risk and you can buy
                                                                                                                                                            them at any size.
                                                                                                                                                            Yes, the terra cotta pots are really inexpensive.  They make good caves, and if you break one you are not out very much money.  I did use a couple coffee mugs recently but now I think they are gonna to come outof the tanks real quick.
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            If you are near a "Michaels" arts and craft store they have them in really small sizes.  Some as small as an inch, which may be a bit too small, but the 2 and 3 inch pots can work for shell dwllers.
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Mike
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10945 From: joequality1980 Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: retrofiting lights
                                                                                                                                                            Finally I'm doing research into retrofiting my existing fair-wattage
                                                                                                                                                            lighting to something a lot better. I've looked around at some
                                                                                                                                                            products and would like to get input if anyone has done this, and
                                                                                                                                                            what
                                                                                                                                                            brands are best/not too expensive.
                                                                                                                                                            I've seen JBJ, but they are close to $200 for 24". Coralife is
                                                                                                                                                            another
                                                                                                                                                            option, as well as some random site that sells bare-bones for cheaper:
                                                                                                                                                            www.ahsupply.com

                                                                                                                                                            Any suggestions or experiences?

                                                                                                                                                            Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10946 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                            Hi Rachel, First of all -- a belated "HAPPY BIRTHDAY" (I guess I
                                                                                                                                                            missed few posts). Hope you enjoyed it, they come and go so fast. As
                                                                                                                                                            for cleaning this 20 gallon high, I've always had good results with
                                                                                                                                                            damp crystal salt (Kosher salt) on a fine woven plastic scrubbie
                                                                                                                                                            thing. The salt acts as an abrasive (but won't scratch glass), much
                                                                                                                                                            like scouring powder on a kitchen pot, and usually gets all the dirt
                                                                                                                                                            off, except for hard water stains for which you'll need vinegar (or
                                                                                                                                                            better yet, lemon juice). I would recommend letting it sit filled
                                                                                                                                                            overnight, with a milder bleach solution of 1/2 cup of Clorox for the
                                                                                                                                                            20 gallons, after you do what cleaning you need to do with a stronger
                                                                                                                                                            bleach solution or whichever method you choose. This not only will
                                                                                                                                                            ensure that the tank will be disease free (yes, some protozoan type
                                                                                                                                                            parasites can form cysts that remain dormant until . . ), it will also
                                                                                                                                                            show if the tank leaks -- all glass tanks can develop leaks, and this
                                                                                                                                                            is an old one. Don't use much more of the bleach solution overnight
                                                                                                                                                            than recommended, as a very strong solution such as you'd use for
                                                                                                                                                            cleaning is not too friendly towards silicone sealant and has been
                                                                                                                                                            known to cause leaks. A Whisper outside power filter should be enough
                                                                                                                                                            for this size tank, unless you want to get fancy. I would go with one
                                                                                                                                                            rate for at least a 30 gallon tank (the flow rate is adjustable in case
                                                                                                                                                            you feel its too strong). This way, as the fish grow, you'll be
                                                                                                                                                            prepared for a heavier fish load than tropicals would impact on the
                                                                                                                                                            tank, as goldfish just create more waste. A bubble wand is good.
                                                                                                                                                            Checking the water once a week should be enough, although you should
                                                                                                                                                            really be making a partial water change at least that often anyway.
                                                                                                                                                            Have you tried feeding green peas, without the shell? Ray
                                                                                                                                                            \
                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel" <star9crystal@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > i picked up a what i think is a 20 gallon tank from my grandmothers
                                                                                                                                                            > house on sunday. umm. its kindaa dirrrrty how should i go about
                                                                                                                                                            > cleanin it off n makin sure its usable?
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > so i was thinkin maybe get another kind of fancy goldfish to put in
                                                                                                                                                            > there, maybe a calico telescope. theyre precious. what kind of
                                                                                                                                                            > filtration system would i need for it, its 24 in length, 16 in depth,
                                                                                                                                                            > 12 in width
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > i was thinking powerfilter (dunno what kind) a bubble wand along the
                                                                                                                                                            > bottom, probably spanning the whole 24 inches, and i was thinking
                                                                                                                                                            > about using my undergravel filter if need be. since i will still have
                                                                                                                                                            > it and all. would checking on the water once a week be enough?
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > and my black moore wont eat veggies. silly fishie.
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10947 From: Nan Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                            Best I can offer without any use of Chemicals or anything........Dojo Weather Loaches, Clown Loaches, or any of the Loach family.  Snails are a food for them as well as they do great clean up work for anything else.  What else is in your tank, because loaches in general tend to be a community tropical tank (some prefer it a little chillier than others) and won't be good to add to a aggressive tank.
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Nan

                                                                                                                                                            AL <ALKILLIAN@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            Hello,
                                                                                                                                                               My wifes tanks has snails that came from some plants we bought and
                                                                                                                                                            she hates them. Is there any way to get rid of them and there slim
                                                                                                                                                            sacs without draining the tank?
                                                                                                                                                            Al K.





                                                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10948 From: kb1dva Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: update

                                                                                                                                                            I now have gravel on the bottom of the tank. And the water looks cloudy? Did I not rinse the gravel enough? How do I heat the new tank unless I fill it all the way? I only have one filter too. I did install an air filter. Please help I’m lost and don’t want to known as the filler of fish. I take the care of all of my creatures seriously   the other Emily

                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10949 From: Nan Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Best on-line plant dealer?
                                                                                                                                                            I buy off of Aquabid.  It is aquabid.com
                                                                                                                                                            Nan

                                                                                                                                                            Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            Hello All,

                                                                                                                                                            I'm trying to find the most reputable on-line aquarium plant dealers.
                                                                                                                                                            I'm looking for quality and selection. Please post your opinions and
                                                                                                                                                            experiences.

                                                                                                                                                            Thanks

                                                                                                                                                            Eric





                                                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10950 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: update
                                                                                                                                                            Emily,

                                                                                                                                                            No matter how well you think you rinse the gravel, you will always get some
                                                                                                                                                            cloudiness when you place it into water. Not to worry, it should settle out
                                                                                                                                                            in a few days (if you had a filter on it, it would happen faster).

                                                                                                                                                            Once you are done with your aquascape, go ahead and fill the tank. If you
                                                                                                                                                            are going to move the fish right away, use warm water to bring it close to
                                                                                                                                                            the temperature you want. Err on the high side, if moving the fish. They
                                                                                                                                                            will take better to warmer water than cooler water. If you are not going to
                                                                                                                                                            be moving the fish right away, just let the water come to room temperature,
                                                                                                                                                            and start reducing the temperature in your current tank so that when the
                                                                                                                                                            move occurs, the water in both will be close. Don't worry, the fish you
                                                                                                                                                            mentioned will be able to stand the cooler water OK, so long as the drop is
                                                                                                                                                            gradual (make them easier to catch also).

                                                                                                                                                            When you are ready to make the move, move the filter and heater over to the
                                                                                                                                                            new tank. Set the heater so that the light comes on to start warming the
                                                                                                                                                            water back to the temperature you desire, and start the filter. Then catch
                                                                                                                                                            and move the fish.

                                                                                                                                                            \\Steve//


                                                                                                                                                            \\Steve//



                                                                                                                                                            ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                            From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                            Behalf Of kb1dva
                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 9:57 PM
                                                                                                                                                            To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] update



                                                                                                                                                            I now have gravel on the bottom of the tank. And the water looks cloudy? Did
                                                                                                                                                            I not rinse the gravel enough? How do I heat the new tank unless I fill it
                                                                                                                                                            all the way? I only have one filter too. I did install an air filter. Please
                                                                                                                                                            help I'm lost and don't want to known as the filler of fish. I take the care
                                                                                                                                                            of all of my creatures seriously the other Emily



                                                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                            the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                            subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                            in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                            ________________________________

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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10951 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: the big move
                                                                                                                                                            If it is not too late, don't clean the gravel from the other tank, or at
                                                                                                                                                            least not all of it. You should use a good portion of it to seed the new
                                                                                                                                                            tank with nitrifying bacteria. You can swirl it around in a bucket of
                                                                                                                                                            de-chlorinated water to remove the detritus from it without destroying the
                                                                                                                                                            bacterial colony.

                                                                                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                            ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                            From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                            Behalf Of kb1dva
                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:47 AM
                                                                                                                                                            To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] the big move

                                                                                                                                                            Good morning everyone!. My plan of attack this morning in regards to the
                                                                                                                                                            fish. Is to buy new gravel I didn't like what was in there anyway and since
                                                                                                                                                            it came from a much smaller tank there's not enough to worry about. - So
                                                                                                                                                            off to pet smart for more gravel. -and then lots of gravel washing. I have
                                                                                                                                                            an old tank that was a disaster I will wash the heather from it, with
                                                                                                                                                            bleach? Rinse and use it to start warming the new tank transfer decorations
                                                                                                                                                            - no cleaning right. And I will is the aerator from the old tank, then let
                                                                                                                                                            it sit another day or 2 .Last but not least come the filter and the fish.
                                                                                                                                                            Charlie the picu has been eyeing the tank ever since it was but in the
                                                                                                                                                            living room, if I listen carefully I can almost hear him humming "were
                                                                                                                                                            moving on up to the east side to that deluxe aquarium". Since money is tight
                                                                                                                                                            I will use 2 systems for aeration until I can replace and the filter should
                                                                                                                                                            hold up. I will sell the 20 long to help buy new lights etc. how much should
                                                                                                                                                            I try to get for a 20 long with all the accessories, I will include anything
                                                                                                                                                            not practical for the 90 gallon. Before I forget what do you people think of
                                                                                                                                                            pythons for moving water. I have learned my lesson all info gets printed, in
                                                                                                                                                            case of computer meltdown Emily



                                                                                                                                                            The smaller fish should be no problem to move right; I'm excited to finally
                                                                                                                                                            be moving foreword
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10952 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: retrofiting lights
                                                                                                                                                            From what I understand ahsupply.com is an upright organization. The ah, I
                                                                                                                                                            believe, is for aquarium hobbyist.

                                                                                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                            From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                            Behalf Of joequality1980
                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:55 PM
                                                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] retrofiting lights

                                                                                                                                                            Finally I'm doing research into retrofiting my existing fair-wattage
                                                                                                                                                            lighting to something a lot better. I've looked around at some
                                                                                                                                                            products and would like to get input if anyone has done this, and
                                                                                                                                                            what
                                                                                                                                                            brands are best/not too expensive.
                                                                                                                                                            I've seen JBJ, but they are close to $200 for 24". Coralife is
                                                                                                                                                            another
                                                                                                                                                            option, as well as some random site that sells bare-bones for cheaper:
                                                                                                                                                            www.ahsupply.com

                                                                                                                                                            Any suggestions or experiences?

                                                                                                                                                            Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10953 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                            Rachel,

                                                                                                                                                            That is bleach and water. I take some water in a bucket and drop in a dollop
                                                                                                                                                            or two of bleach. How much I use is pretty subjective, I don't have an exact
                                                                                                                                                            recipe to offer.

                                                                                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                            From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                            Behalf Of Rachel
                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 3:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 20 gallon tank

                                                                                                                                                            what exactly is a bleach solution?

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > Rachel,
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Depends on the kind of dirt.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Use a damp cloth to wipe it down first, to get rid of all the dust
                                                                                                                                                            and some
                                                                                                                                                            > of the loose stuff.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > If the dirt is really caked on, try a single edged razor blade to
                                                                                                                                                            scrape it
                                                                                                                                                            > off, but be real careful around the seams as you do not want to
                                                                                                                                                            break the
                                                                                                                                                            > silicone seal.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > If you have mineral deposits on the glass, use a mixture of
                                                                                                                                                            vinegar and
                                                                                                                                                            > water and lots of elbow grease to remove the deposits. You can use
                                                                                                                                                            one of
                                                                                                                                                            > those scrubby type pads that is mildly abrasive (I forget what
                                                                                                                                                            they are
                                                                                                                                                            > called, but there is usually a clean one hanging around here) to
                                                                                                                                                            help,
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Do not use any soap or ammonia type cleansers. The vinegar and
                                                                                                                                                            water combo
                                                                                                                                                            > can be used to help clean the outside of the glass too.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > There are also some products you can find at you local fish store
                                                                                                                                                            (maybe)
                                                                                                                                                            > that are specifically made for cleaning aquariums, and you may
                                                                                                                                                            want to
                                                                                                                                                            > investigate those.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Once you have a clean glass box, rinse it out with a bleach
                                                                                                                                                            solution,
                                                                                                                                                            > followed by a lot of plain water, or plain water and a chlorine
                                                                                                                                                            remover.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > P.S., I hope you thanked grandma for the tank. I have one ornament
                                                                                                                                                            from my
                                                                                                                                                            > grandmother's tank that I got when she passed. Her tank was around
                                                                                                                                                            for quite
                                                                                                                                                            > a while also, but I don't recall where that ended up.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                            > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                            > Behalf Of Rachel
                                                                                                                                                            > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 6:01 PM
                                                                                                                                                            > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            > Subject: [AquaticLife] 20 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > i picked up a what i think is a 20 gallon tank from my
                                                                                                                                                            grandmothers
                                                                                                                                                            > house on sunday. umm. its kindaa dirrrrty how should i go about
                                                                                                                                                            > cleanin it off n makin sure its usable?
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > so i was thinkin maybe get another kind of fancy goldfish to put
                                                                                                                                                            in
                                                                                                                                                            > there, maybe a calico telescope. theyre precious. what kind of
                                                                                                                                                            > filtration system would i need for it, its 24 in length, 16 in
                                                                                                                                                            depth,
                                                                                                                                                            > 12 in width
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > i was thinking powerfilter (dunno what kind) a bubble wand along
                                                                                                                                                            the
                                                                                                                                                            > bottom, probably spanning the whole 24 inches, and i was thinking
                                                                                                                                                            > about using my undergravel filter if need be. since i will still
                                                                                                                                                            have
                                                                                                                                                            > it and all. would checking on the water once a week be enough?
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > and my black moore wont eat veggies. silly fishie.
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10954 From: Lauri Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Midas Coloration
                                                                                                                                                            Thank you very much, Ray, as the info you shared has been
                                                                                                                                                            very helpful in my understanding, not only of the reason for the
                                                                                                                                                            confusion in the common names, but what I might expect as this
                                                                                                                                                            fish matures.

                                                                                                                                                            I realize this will be another very large fish, as I have several
                                                                                                                                                            fish that will get that big or larger. As they grow, and their
                                                                                                                                                            adult personalities develop, I'll know which fish will be best to
                                                                                                                                                            combine in the bigger tanks.

                                                                                                                                                            But, that is another topic; so once again, I appreciate your
                                                                                                                                                            responses, and for sharing your knowledge!

                                                                                                                                                            Lauri
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10955 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: SHANNON ( AgentSculley...) OT
                                                                                                                                                            You get it ?
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10956 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: ( AgentSculley...) Off Topic
                                                                                                                                                            Off topic

                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 5/4/2005 12:40:24 AM US Eastern Standard Time, FortWayneFish@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                            You get it ?


                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10957 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: retrofiting lights

                                                                                                                                                            I would suggest checking a few of the Aquatic Gardner websights. A lot of them have DIY projects and or talk about there upgrades.
                                                                                                                                                            I have seen AHsupply mentioned numerous times in other forums.. Don't think I have ever heard any thing bad about them..

                                                                                                                                                            also might try http://www.hellolights.com/ or http://www.championlighting.com/  









                                                                                                                                                            Finally I'm doing research into retrofiting my existing fair-wattage
                                                                                                                                                            lighting to something a lot better. I've looked around at some
                                                                                                                                                            products and would like to get input if anyone has done this, and
                                                                                                                                                            what
                                                                                                                                                            brands are best/not too expensive.
                                                                                                                                                            I've seen JBJ, but they are close to $200 for 24". Coralife is
                                                                                                                                                            another
                                                                                                                                                            option, as well as some random site that sells bare-bones for cheaper:
                                                                                                                                                            www.ahsupply.com

                                                                                                                                                            Any suggestions or experiences?



                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10958 From: paul helms Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: anyone need equipment to set up salt water?
                                                                                                                                                            i do not want to bother everyone on the list with
                                                                                                                                                            personal business, so just send me an emial that says
                                                                                                                                                            list to my off line account and i will send you one.
                                                                                                                                                            morlok@....
                                                                                                                                                            thanks,
                                                                                                                                                            paul
                                                                                                                                                            --- wjcoldman <wjcoldman@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Paul, if you could post what you have that would
                                                                                                                                                            > help. I might be
                                                                                                                                                            > intrested in some items.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > walter
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                            > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > > hey everyone,
                                                                                                                                                            > > i am selling off a whole bunch of used Salt Water
                                                                                                                                                            > > equipment, basically a 110 and a 55 gallon setup.
                                                                                                                                                            > > everything but sand rock and fish. if anyone is
                                                                                                                                                            > > interested drop me an e mail offf list, this is my
                                                                                                                                                            > off
                                                                                                                                                            > > list address: Morlok@c...
                                                                                                                                                            > > i am in ca
                                                                                                                                                            > > ttyl paul
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                            > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                            > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                                                                                                                                                            > protection around
                                                                                                                                                            > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >

                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                            Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                                            http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10959 From: paul helms Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                            be careful with bleach, if it is too strong it will
                                                                                                                                                            damage the silicone. for food service safety, less
                                                                                                                                                            than a capful is used in about 20 gallons of water as
                                                                                                                                                            a disinfecting rinse. beyond that it is toxic. it
                                                                                                                                                            should not smelllike a pool when you make it.
                                                                                                                                                            --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > i use 1/2 cup bleach to 1 gallon water as a mild
                                                                                                                                                            > solution...
                                                                                                                                                            > make sure to rinse well and air dry before filling
                                                                                                                                                            > for fish....
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > In a message dated 5/3/2005 2:11:26 PM US Eastern
                                                                                                                                                            > Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                            > star9crystal@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > > what exactly is a bleach solution?
                                                                                                                                                            > >

                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                            Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                                            http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10960 From: paul helms Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: coffee cups in tanks?
                                                                                                                                                            probably would not hurt, but scrap pvc pipe or an
                                                                                                                                                            uplift tube from a ugf works great
                                                                                                                                                            --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...>
                                                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > One more question:
                                                                                                                                                            > Would it be OK to put a coffee cup in the tank as a
                                                                                                                                                            > hiding spot? Just
                                                                                                                                                            > your everyday run-of-the-mill mug. Like those from
                                                                                                                                                            > Starbucks.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >

                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                            Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                                            http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10961 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/3/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Best on-line plant dealer?
                                                                                                                                                            wow there are a LOT of great sights for plants.
                                                                                                                                                            If you buy from Aqua Bid you are buying from Hobbyists. Thats great but sometimes Hobbyists don't have what you want.

                                                                                                                                                            I have either had GREAT/GOOD experience with the following or have had friends who have GREAT/GOOD experience with the following:
                                                                                                                                                            Aquarium Plants .com

                                                                                                                                                            Arizona Aquatic Gardens

                                                                                                                                                            Aqua Botanic Aquarium 


                                                                                                                                                            if links don't work or don't show just type the names into any search engine to find them


                                                                                                                                                            rob
                                                                                                                                                            Indiana

                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 5/3/2005 9:00:18 PM US Eastern Standard Time, ntalb00@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                            Hello All,

                                                                                                                                                            I'm trying to find the most reputable on-line aquarium plant dealers.
                                                                                                                                                            I'm looking for quality and selection. Please post your opinions and
                                                                                                                                                            experiences.

                                                                                                                                                            Thanks

                                                                                                                                                            Eric


                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10962 From: Robert Hickey Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                            Red claw Crabs
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            I find the best snail hunters, And there so cool.
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Or Clown Loaches.
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            :o)
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Irish Rob
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Regards
                                                                                                                                                            Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Robert Hickey | Networks Engineer Citywest Business Park | BT | Tel: +353 (0)1 43258749
                                                                                                                                                            | Mob: +353 (0)86 8061840 | E: robert.hickey@... | www.btireland.ie
                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 6:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails

                                                                                                                                                            I got a clown loach and the snail disapereared, now I
                                                                                                                                                            wish I had more. He looks hungry.  LOL
                                                                                                                                                            --- AL <ALKILLIAN@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                            >    My wifes tanks has snails that came from some
                                                                                                                                                            > plants we bought and
                                                                                                                                                            > she hates them. Is there any way to get rid of them
                                                                                                                                                            > and there slim
                                                                                                                                                            > sacs without draining the tank?
                                                                                                                                                            >  Al K.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >

                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                            Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                            Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                                            http://mail.yahoo.com


                                                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10963 From: wendie Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: coffee cups in tanks?
                                                                                                                                                            I use small colored or clear glass votives that I find in Wal-mart or someplace like that.
                                                                                                                                                            Wendie
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                            From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Deenerz@...
                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 5:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] coffee cups in tanks?

                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 5/3/2005 2:18:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fishgoddess@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                            One more question:
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Would it be OK to put a coffee cup in the tank as a hiding spot?  Just your
                                                                                                                                                            > everyday run-of-the-mill mug.  Like those from Starbucks. 

                                                                                                                                                            You know, I don't think I'd take the risk. The cup could have a
                                                                                                                                                            soluble paint that might leech into the tank. Try those little clay
                                                                                                                                                            pots for plants. Those work very well with no risk and you can buy
                                                                                                                                                            them at any size.
                                                                                                                                                            Yes, the terra cotta pots are really inexpensive.  They make good caves, and if you break one you are not out very much money.  I did use a couple coffee mugs recently but now I think they are gonna to come outof the tanks real quick.
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            If you are near a "Michaels" arts and craft store they have them in really small sizes.  Some as small as an inch, which may be a bit too small, but the 2 and 3 inch pots can work for shell dwllers.
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Mike


                                                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10964 From: AL Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                            . What else is in your tank, because loaches in general tend to be a
                                                                                                                                                            community tropical tank (some prefer it a little chillier than others)
                                                                                                                                                            and won't be good to add to a aggressive tank.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Nan
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            In that tank we have 4 silver dollars( Two a breeding pair), 1 marble
                                                                                                                                                            angel, 1 tan angel, 3 cory cats and a pleco.
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10965 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Need a small filter
                                                                                                                                                            I hate air pumps. I don't use them at all. You can get a power filter
                                                                                                                                                            for $12.99 or less, and it's a lot less hassle and noise. Once the
                                                                                                                                                            tank's established, most of the bacteria isn't in the filter anyway,
                                                                                                                                                            so a power outage isn't going to be a big deal.

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, FortWayneFish@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > I also agree a spongfilter and airpump...................
                                                                                                                                                            > get a sponge rated bigger then the 15 gallons, makes it nice when those
                                                                                                                                                            > unexpected power outages happen...
                                                                                                                                                            > spone filter does not need power or air supply to keep working.. or
                                                                                                                                                            you could
                                                                                                                                                            > opt for a box filter but thse require airflow to keep working..
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Hydro-Sponge Filters
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/FILTRATION/Hydro-Sponge_Filters/hydro-sponge_filters.html
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Box Filters
                                                                                                                                                            > http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/FILTRATION/Box_Filters/box_filters.html
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > rob
                                                                                                                                                            > indiana
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10966 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: thanks
                                                                                                                                                            What do you do when there's a power failure? Make sure that all the
                                                                                                                                                            equipment comes back on ok when the power returns. :D Seriously,
                                                                                                                                                            unless it's winter and the power's out long enough to encounter
                                                                                                                                                            temperature problems, or your tank is overstocked (or deep) enough to
                                                                                                                                                            require constant surface agitation, a "normal" power failur is not a
                                                                                                                                                            big deal.

                                                                                                                                                            Unless you're going to use live plants, the lighting is entirely up to
                                                                                                                                                            your tastes and budget.

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kb1dva" <vze3pd7a@v...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > I wanted to thank you guys. I have so many questions, I'm afraid you
                                                                                                                                                            guys
                                                                                                                                                            > are going to think I'm a pest. What do you do for a 90 gallon tank when
                                                                                                                                                            > there's a power failure?. Should I move the fish and then add to the
                                                                                                                                                            > population, or do it all at the same time. What is the best light
                                                                                                                                                            set up for
                                                                                                                                                            > a tank that size, one long one or two. I was always taught the dumb
                                                                                                                                                            question
                                                                                                                                                            > is the one you didn't ask. Thanks again
                                                                                                                                                            > Emily in Boston
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10967 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: testing and other stuff
                                                                                                                                                            You implied the most important part of the issue, though - a piece of
                                                                                                                                                            coral is the right way to make a pH correction. Dumping chemicals in
                                                                                                                                                            your tank is the wrong way.

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Fish Bloke" <fishbloke@b...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > >>pH testing is not really that important.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Yipes! That is about the worst over-simplification of a subject I
                                                                                                                                                            have ever seen. pH is extremely important, not because of any direct
                                                                                                                                                            effect on fish, but due to its effect on many other water chemistry
                                                                                                                                                            factors. Most fish will adapt to wide pH ranges and appear not to
                                                                                                                                                            suffer, even over a number of years. In fact, altering pH may appear
                                                                                                                                                            to harm some fish, almost always a result of incorrect procedure and a
                                                                                                                                                            lack of understanding of how pH actually works.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > If you want the BEST life for your fish, with the resulting longer
                                                                                                                                                            life, better reproduction and display, then all environmental
                                                                                                                                                            conditions should be maintained to the "ideal" level. For novices
                                                                                                                                                            etc, the ideal thing for pH may simply be to ignore it. That will
                                                                                                                                                            depend on species being kept, initial pH, stocking density and so on.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > My answer is still an oversimplication of a complex subject.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I am currently down to 18 tanks at home (not counting the tanks I
                                                                                                                                                            service proffessionally) and they all get some sort of pH adjustment,
                                                                                                                                                            even if it only a peice of coral in the filter.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                            > Phil.
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10968 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Ray, Mark-check out my new #'s
                                                                                                                                                            The most natural way to control the nitrates would be to add live
                                                                                                                                                            plants. :D

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                            <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > This is a good thing. I added a protein remover (plus) pouch to my
                                                                                                                                                            > filter. It took out the malachite green of course but nitrites are 0,
                                                                                                                                                            > ammonia still 0, ph 7 something. BUT nitrates are still high at 60!
                                                                                                                                                            > What can I do to get these down? Everything else is peachy keen, but
                                                                                                                                                            > wow that's high!
                                                                                                                                                            > Suggestions please...
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > ~Lelsie
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10969 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
                                                                                                                                                            There are a few things in the list that you don't need, a few things
                                                                                                                                                            I'd replace with something else (like the lights), and a few things
                                                                                                                                                            you will need that are missing.

                                                                                                                                                            I'd recommend taking a look at this book to help you get started:
                                                                                                                                                            http://tinyurl.com/7eatk (The New Marine Aquarium, by Michael S. Paletta).

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bethym99" <bmetcalf@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > I am researching marine tank setups and trying to decide what to
                                                                                                                                                            > purchase. Boy, there are alot of options! We are hoping to start a
                                                                                                                                                            > tank that can house some marine fish (clowns, tangs, etc) and some
                                                                                                                                                            > invertebrates. This setup is available from someone in town and I
                                                                                                                                                            > wanted to share the setup and see if any fellow marine hobbyists
                                                                                                                                                            > have any feedback on it, what other questions should I be asking?
                                                                                                                                                            > The LFS owner said it was a 'great deal' (and he's not selling it to
                                                                                                                                                            > me).
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Thank you! I hope to learn alot from this group so our start in this
                                                                                                                                                            > hobby is a successful one :-)
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > 55 gallon tank 48"x12"x12"
                                                                                                                                                            > All glass tank and stand (Black)
                                                                                                                                                            > Lunar Light with Moon Light
                                                                                                                                                            > Heater
                                                                                                                                                            > 60 Series Eco System Hang off the back
                                                                                                                                                            > Live Sand
                                                                                                                                                            > Aroma Protein Skimmer
                                                                                                                                                            > 2 Timer
                                                                                                                                                            > 2 Power Strips
                                                                                                                                                            > 2 Power Heads
                                                                                                                                                            > With one wave maker
                                                                                                                                                            > upgraded pump on eco system
                                                                                                                                                            > can filter
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Selling it for $650
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10970 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: question on guppies, danios, rosies and goldfish
                                                                                                                                                            None of those fish really need salt, except the Mollies, which are
                                                                                                                                                            brackish. You'd probably be best off not keeping other fish with the
                                                                                                                                                            goldfish, though - they're messier than most other fish.

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar <bababanana@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > Hi! I just found your group and I've been keeping aquariums for a
                                                                                                                                                            few years now and looking for a bit of advice!
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I currently have a 10 gallon aquarium occupied by a bunch of guppies
                                                                                                                                                            and 8 danios, and a 20 gal. with 4 goldfish. I recently bought a 55
                                                                                                                                                            gal. that I'm setting up for the goldfish, and I'll be moving the
                                                                                                                                                            smaller fish to the 20 gallon.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I picked up a couple of rosy reds as "starter fish" for the new
                                                                                                                                                            aquarium to get things going and be sure they are doing alright before
                                                                                                                                                            I add my precious goldfish. I'd like to have the rosy reds cohabit
                                                                                                                                                            with the goldfish because they both do well at cooler temperatures (no
                                                                                                                                                            heater required) but I found that the salinity preferences are quite
                                                                                                                                                            different. The tank currently has 1 tbsp/6 gal which is the amount of
                                                                                                                                                            salt advised for goldfish. I don't want to kill the rosy reds already
                                                                                                                                                            if i added too much salt.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I also found that danios have similar salt requirements to rosy
                                                                                                                                                            reds, and I'm wondering if they might eventually do better in the
                                                                                                                                                            large, unheated tank, and then I can concentrate the 20 gal. tank on
                                                                                                                                                            the guppies. I'm also planning to adopt some mollies from a friend
                                                                                                                                                            who's moving out of state, and those should do fine with the guppies.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > So bascially, how can I modify the conditions so that goldfish and
                                                                                                                                                            rosy reds will do fine together, and would the danios be better with
                                                                                                                                                            the goldfish and rosies, or with the livebearers?
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                            > Emily
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10971 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
                                                                                                                                                            The oft-quoted "rule" is one pound of live rock per gallon of water.
                                                                                                                                                            You can get buy with 1/2 pound or less if you stock lightly. (Or if
                                                                                                                                                            you also use live sand.)

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bethym99" <bmetcalf@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > Thanks! We're going tomorrow to look at the system.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > How do I determine how much live rock I need? Why do you say 55g? --
                                                                                                                                                            > how can you determine how much volume of water the live rock will
                                                                                                                                                            > take up so you know how much water to change??
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I think we'll be doing a combination of live rock/coral bone to keep
                                                                                                                                                            > cost down. It already has a bed of live sand that has the bacteria
                                                                                                                                                            > in it. Owner has kept it wet to ensure the sand stays healthy.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I'm thinking we'll only have one tang, depending. I'm just wanting
                                                                                                                                                            > to get the tank setup and then concentrate on fishies. My LFS owner
                                                                                                                                                            > is really awesome and the guy we'll probably get tank from works at
                                                                                                                                                            > LFS and offered to help us set it all up here.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > --- In AquaticLife...
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10972 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Howdy and a question
                                                                                                                                                            Fill a cooler (the kind you use for picnics) part way with water from
                                                                                                                                                            the tank and put the fish in there to transport them. When you stop
                                                                                                                                                            along the way, open the cooler to refresh the air.

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Torran" <torran@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > Hi there. I am Torran.
                                                                                                                                                            > My kids and I have 2 tanks with gold fish. One tank is particularly
                                                                                                                                                            > special. My son won one of those tiny minnow looking things at the fair
                                                                                                                                                            > almost 5 years ago. He brought it home in cup and I was sure it wouldn't
                                                                                                                                                            > make it through the night. It was tiny and silver and kinda floating
                                                                                                                                                            > sideways. We made a midnight run to Wal-Mart and set up a tank for him
                                                                                                                                                            > and hoped for the best. Well, it's HUGE and a lovely bright gold now. We
                                                                                                                                                            > have him in a tank with another goldfish we bought him for company, a
                                                                                                                                                            > plecostimus (hope I spelled that right), and two huge snails (not sure
                                                                                                                                                            > what species but I love those things. They are so cool to watch).
                                                                                                                                                            > We will be moving 8 hours away soon. Does anyone have any suggestions on
                                                                                                                                                            > transporting the fish all that way? If the goldfish that he won when he
                                                                                                                                                            > was 5 dies, my son will be shattered and will not easily get over it. He
                                                                                                                                                            > loves that fish. Killer is the fish' name, btw.
                                                                                                                                                            > Anyhoo, glad to be here. Thanks in advance for any help you guys might
                                                                                                                                                            > offer.
                                                                                                                                                            > <<>>Torran
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10973 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: new tank
                                                                                                                                                            For a tank that size, a canister filter would be a good choice. I like
                                                                                                                                                            the Rena Filstar XP line, which is pretty inexpensive (compared to
                                                                                                                                                            some of the other brands) and works well.

                                                                                                                                                            If you can use some of the older gravel in the new tank, it will help
                                                                                                                                                            things get going more quickly. Depending on the type of old filter you
                                                                                                                                                            have, using it, at least in the beginning, as you have planned, should
                                                                                                                                                            also help.

                                                                                                                                                            Don't worry too much about cleaning the old heater - I would just
                                                                                                                                                            rinse it off and take off any algae or whatever I could with my
                                                                                                                                                            fingers. Also it will help to make sure it has a few minutes to
                                                                                                                                                            acclimate in the water before you plug it in.

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kb1dva" <vze3pd7a@v...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > I lost my hard drive so I'll ask again.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I have my 90 gallon tank filled. No gravel just water. Hubby went
                                                                                                                                                            ahead and
                                                                                                                                                            > did this. What happens next gravel and decorations? Filters and
                                                                                                                                                            fish? The
                                                                                                                                                            > thought of moving my big pacu makes me nervous. I have a heater from
                                                                                                                                                            an old
                                                                                                                                                            > tank and was thinking of warming up the water that way. The tank
                                                                                                                                                            will have
                                                                                                                                                            > gravel tomorrow. The old filter stays until I can afford a better
                                                                                                                                                            one. Any
                                                                                                                                                            > thoughts on what kind are the best, types and brands would be
                                                                                                                                                            helpful. How
                                                                                                                                                            > do I clean the heater, and I want to use all new gravel is that ok
                                                                                                                                                            any hips
                                                                                                                                                            > are appreciated thanks Emily
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10974 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                            My clown loach has been doing great with just the same fish food
                                                                                                                                                            everyone else gets, since he killed off all the snails a few years back.

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, eric douglas <nicelvguy@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > I got a clown loach and the snail disapereared, now I
                                                                                                                                                            > wish I had more. He looks hungry. LOL
                                                                                                                                                            > --- AL <ALKILLIAN@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                            > > My wifes tanks has snails that came from some
                                                                                                                                                            > > plants we bought and
                                                                                                                                                            > > she hates them. Is there any way to get rid of them
                                                                                                                                                            > > and there slim
                                                                                                                                                            > > sacs without draining the tank?
                                                                                                                                                            > > Al K.
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10975 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                            Clown loaches are great for getting rid of snails. :)

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "AL" <ALKILLIAN@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                            > My wifes tanks has snails that came from some plants we bought and
                                                                                                                                                            > she hates them. Is there any way to get rid of them and there slim
                                                                                                                                                            > sacs without draining the tank?
                                                                                                                                                            > Al K.
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10976 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                            Depending on what other fish you have, the snails may outlive the
                                                                                                                                                            ghost shrimp. :)

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > clown loaches, ghost shrimp and a pleco should do it.
                                                                                                                                                            > teh loache swilll eat small snails and the other two
                                                                                                                                                            > will eat egg sacks.
                                                                                                                                                            > --- AL <ALKILLIAN@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                            > > My wifes tanks has snails that came from some
                                                                                                                                                            > > plants we bought and
                                                                                                                                                            > > she hates them. Is there any way to get rid of them
                                                                                                                                                            > > and there slim
                                                                                                                                                            > > sacs without draining the tank?
                                                                                                                                                            > > Al K.
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10977 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                            There is at least one kind of play sand that is actually the dolomite
                                                                                                                                                            type, which is terrific for saltwater tanks. If you want to save
                                                                                                                                                            money, you can start with just a little live sand (along with some
                                                                                                                                                            "dead" sand), and eventually it will all be "live."

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > if you are buying live sand, there is no reason to get
                                                                                                                                                            > regualr sand. 2 bags live sand and 1 bag crushed
                                                                                                                                                            > coral is pefect. it is silly to put play sand or teh
                                                                                                                                                            > like in salt water when everything that you need is
                                                                                                                                                            > already ion the bag.
                                                                                                                                                            > --- Charlene <muffin4494@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > > Hi, Ok I just got my sand. But now I want to know if
                                                                                                                                                            > > your can mix it
                                                                                                                                                            > > with crushed coral and live sand too. Can I keep
                                                                                                                                                            > > live sand in
                                                                                                                                                            > > something for I set up my 55 ga tank. So how mush
                                                                                                                                                            > > live sand should I
                                                                                                                                                            > > buy for a 55 ga tank. If i can put live sand in it.
                                                                                                                                                            > > Thank you for
                                                                                                                                                            > > helping me again Charlene muffin4494@y...
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10978 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                            Plecos don't actually eat algae. They eat the animals in the algae.

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                            <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > from what i've heard plecs don't do such a great job of algae eating
                                                                                                                                                            as they mature. so maybe
                                                                                                                                                            > they're not a good idea for you anyway. maybe you could try the tank
                                                                                                                                                            w/o an algae eater and see
                                                                                                                                                            > how it works. if algae develops then you can look into more algae
                                                                                                                                                            eaters or clean it off w/a
                                                                                                                                                            > magnet or a tank brush. just my thoughts.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > > I got rid of my two giant plecos. The last one about a month ago. I
                                                                                                                                                            > > figure it's about time to get something to start eating this stuff
                                                                                                                                                            but I
                                                                                                                                                            > > REALLY do NOT want a plecostamus. I think they are so nasty.
                                                                                                                                                            > > I thought about the Chinese algae eaters, but I am fairly certain they
                                                                                                                                                            > > will be munched as they are purchased young and small. (they are the
                                                                                                                                                            > > size of our feeder fish.)
                                                                                                                                                            > > Any other suggestions? Do I have to have an algae eater or can I do
                                                                                                                                                            > > without one somehow? If I get plecos, I've been advised to get two
                                                                                                                                                            > > small ones. When they grow to about 5", I'm to turn in one to LFS and
                                                                                                                                                            > > keep the other. Then repeat this as the other grows too large. But
                                                                                                                                                            > > again, I don't want plecos. They are so contaminating!
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > Leslie
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10979 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                            Try the smaller bristlenose catfish. They do a great job on algae and should have no problem living with your larger American Cichlids.
                                                                                                                                                            Provide them with some sort of hiding places, where the other fish can't get at them so they can escape any harassment.

                                                                                                                                                            They will probally hide all day long.  Once the lights go out and the other fish settle in for the night,  will come out and eat everything it can find.

                                                                                                                                                            Your idea of a siamese algae eater. The siamese will probally get harassed to death by your cichlids, or once the Siamese gets bigger they tend to get aggressive and learn not to eat algae when they can just wait for fish food.

                                                                                                                                                            * use no algae eater, just a brush to rid tank of algae*

                                                                                                                                                            rob
                                                                                                                                                            indiana


                                                                                                                                                            I
                                                                                                                                                            > REALLY do NOT want a plecostamus. 


                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10980 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                            Where did you read that?  I have never heard that before.  Plecos are omnivores, but they prefer plant material like leaves and algae. 
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message------- 
                                                                                                                                                            Plecos don't actually eat algae. They eat the animals in the algae.

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10981 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                            Unfortunately, I don't remember where I picked that up. It was some
                                                                                                                                                            time ago. It seemed to make sense based on the experience I've had
                                                                                                                                                            with my 3 plecos. It could certainly be wrong, though! :)

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                                            <patrickmn1@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > Where did you read that? I have never heard that before. Plecos are
                                                                                                                                                            > omnivores, but they prefer plant material like leaves and algae.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                            > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                            > Plecos don't actually eat algae. They eat the animals in the algae.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10982 From: The Dragon Hunter Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                            Yea. clowns are great. Takes a while to get used to some of their quirks,
                                                                                                                                                            but once you do, they're fun to watch. Lots of character. mine will
                                                                                                                                                            periodically lay on their sides till the others pass and then chase and
                                                                                                                                                            alternate, kinda like tag. They also like to bat snail shells around and
                                                                                                                                                            will smash them against the glass.

                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                            From: "Trevor" <trevor@...>
                                                                                                                                                            To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 10:13 AM
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snails


                                                                                                                                                            > Clown loaches are great for getting rid of snails. :)
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "AL" <ALKILLIAN@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                            > > My wifes tanks has snails that came from some plants we bought and
                                                                                                                                                            > > she hates them. Is there any way to get rid of them and there slim
                                                                                                                                                            > > sacs without draining the tank?
                                                                                                                                                            > > Al K.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                            the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                            subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                            in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10983 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                            Depending on size of tank I see no reason why you could not add a few clown loaches.
                                                                                                                                                            Clown loaches will eat any of your eggs though if you get a successful laying of eggs. and will also eat any wigglers, or small fry..
                                                                                                                                                            group of 3 would make a nice addition.. but clown loaches will get 10 inches or so as adults but are very slow growers. 15 years or so to reach adult size.

                                                                                                                                                            rob
                                                                                                                                                            Indiana

                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 5/4/2005 10:28:25 AM US Eastern Standard Time, ALKILLIAN@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                            In that tank we have 4 silver dollars( Two a breeding pair), 1 marble
                                                                                                                                                            angel, 1 tan angel, 3 cory cats and a pleco.


                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10984 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                            I have a large snail, the size of a golfball.  Would a clown loach bother him?  I have so many tiny nuisance snails I'd like to get rid of.
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Angela
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                            Depending on size of tank I see no reason why you could not add a few clown loaches.
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10985 From: Robert Hickey Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Ph issue
                                                                                                                                                            Hi all
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Quick Qustion maybe someone can help Me with  My tank is cycled and running now for a few months
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            However every time I do a 30% water Change the ph shoots up to 7.6 even with my standard tap water being 7 , my tank is usually soft with ph 6.7 as its all south american,
                                                                                                                                                            Its heavyly planted And noticed the water Was a bit smelly,
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Could it be death of decaying plants?
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Any help is great?
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            This never happened before only in the last week!!!
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Thanks
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Irish Rob
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Regards
                                                                                                                                                            Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Robert Hickey | Networks Engineer Citywest Business Park | BT | Tel: +353
                                                                                                                                                            (0)1 43258749
                                                                                                                                                            | Mob: +353 (0)86 8061840 | E: robert.hickey@... | www.btireland.ie
                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 8:25 PM
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Snails

                                                                                                                                                            I have a large snail, the size of a golfball.  Would a clown loach bother him?  I have so many tiny nuisance snails I'd like to get rid of.
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Angela
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                            Depending on size of tank I see no reason why you could not add a few clown loaches.


                                                                                                                                                            Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                                                            Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10986 From: Rachel Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                            thank you, i was wondering about that since its a 20 gallon tank.

                                                                                                                                                            Rachel

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...>
                                                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > be careful with bleach, if it is too strong it will
                                                                                                                                                            > damage the silicone. for food service safety, less
                                                                                                                                                            > than a capful is used in about 20 gallons of water as
                                                                                                                                                            > a disinfecting rinse. beyond that it is toxic. it
                                                                                                                                                            > should not smelllike a pool when you make it.
                                                                                                                                                            > --- FortWayneFish@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > > i use 1/2 cup bleach to 1 gallon water as a mild
                                                                                                                                                            > > solution...
                                                                                                                                                            > > make sure to rinse well and air dry before filling
                                                                                                                                                            > > for fish....
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > In a message dated 5/3/2005 2:11:26 PM US Eastern
                                                                                                                                                            > > Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                            > > star9crystal@y... writes:
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > > what exactly is a bleach solution?
                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                            > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                                            > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10987 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Ph issue
                                                                                                                                                            Let the water sit in buckets for a few hours and see if that helps.  You might also try putting a plate on the surface of the water to pour the water in on, in case you are stirring something up.  Plants would more than likely lower pH, not raise it.  I figure it is either something in the water treatment you use, or the test kit is not accurate.
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                            Hi all
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Quick Qustion maybe someone can help Me with  My tank is cycled and running now for a few months
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            However every time I do a 30% water Change the ph shoots up to 7.6 even with my standard tap water being 7 , my tank is usually soft with ph 6.7 as its all south american,
                                                                                                                                                            Its heavyly planted And noticed the water Was a bit smelly,
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Could it be death of decaying plants?
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Any help is great?
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            This never happened before only in the last week!!!
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Thanks
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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10988 From: Nan Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                            I have a clown loach and 3 dojo weather loaches in a 30+ gallon with all tropicals (Paradise fish, Betta, and some guppys, and a couple of corys), and I have found my Clown Loach to be my most aggressive snail getter.  Generally they like a couple of their own kind, so if you go with the clown loaches, I would get at least 2 so they aren't lonely, and give them a cave to hide in since they are somewhat shy, in my experience!:)
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            ~nan~

                                                                                                                                                            AL <ALKILLIAN@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            .  What else is in your tank, because loaches in general tend to be a
                                                                                                                                                            community tropical tank (some prefer it a little chillier than others)
                                                                                                                                                            and won't be good to add to a aggressive tank.

                                                                                                                                                            > Nan
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            In that tank we have 4 silver dollars( Two a breeding pair), 1 marble
                                                                                                                                                            angel, 1 tan angel, 3 cory cats and a pleco.




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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10989 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Ray, Mark-check out my new #'s
                                                                                                                                                            ??????????????????????? NO KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ???????????????????
                                                                                                                                                            \
                                                                                                                                                            In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Trevor" <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > The most natural way to control the nitrates would be to add live
                                                                                                                                                            > plants. :D
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                            > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > > This is a good thing. I added a protein remover (plus) pouch to
                                                                                                                                                            my
                                                                                                                                                            > > filter. It took out the malachite green of course but nitrites
                                                                                                                                                            are 0,
                                                                                                                                                            > > ammonia still 0, ph 7 something. BUT nitrates are still high at
                                                                                                                                                            60!
                                                                                                                                                            > > What can I do to get these down? Everything else is peachy keen,
                                                                                                                                                            but
                                                                                                                                                            > > wow that's high!
                                                                                                                                                            > > Suggestions please...
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > ~Lelsie
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10990 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                            I would say no to chinese algae eater if you want to start small go with a "Siamese" algae eater they look similar to chinese but the chinese grow up to be aggressive scale eaters the siamese get 3-5 inches long do well in groups and are very funny and gregarious and always eat algae  and I am able to keep them small with big cichlids I have a pair and a spare firemouth, a pair of salvini, a trio of blue acara,2 young acarythis heckelli in a tank with 2 adult and 2   1 1/2 inch  siamese algae eater no problems.
                                                                                                                                                              my second recommendation would be rubber lips pleco they stay fairly small 4-5 inches and eat algae way better  than most plecos. I have had mine for over a year I purchased him at auction as an adult and he is still 5 inches and wont let a speck of algae grow in my tank unlike most of my other adult plecos. I love this guy.
                                                                                                                                                               Elaine
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10991 From: bethym99 Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
                                                                                                                                                            Thanks for the book recommendation, its on order! :)

                                                                                                                                                            Would you mind elaborating on what I don't need and what you'd
                                                                                                                                                            replace? I will be setting it up as is to start with... and then
                                                                                                                                                            modifying as time/$ permit. It will have 4bags of live sand in it...
                                                                                                                                                            and I'll be purchasing a snall amount of live rock and quite a bit
                                                                                                                                                            of coral bone to start.

                                                                                                                                                            Thanks! :-)

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Trevor" <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > There are a few things in the list that you don't need, a few
                                                                                                                                                            things
                                                                                                                                                            > I'd replace with something else (like the lights), and a few things
                                                                                                                                                            > you will need that are missing.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I'd recommend taking a look at this book to help you get started:
                                                                                                                                                            > http://tinyurl.com/7eatk (The New Marine Aquarium, by Michael S.
                                                                                                                                                            Paletta).
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bethym99" <bmetcalf@c...>
                                                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > > I am researching marine tank setups and trying to decide what to
                                                                                                                                                            > > purchase. Boy, there are alot of options! We are hoping to
                                                                                                                                                            start a
                                                                                                                                                            > > tank that can house some marine fish (clowns, tangs, etc) and
                                                                                                                                                            some
                                                                                                                                                            > > invertebrates. This setup is available from someone in town and
                                                                                                                                                            I
                                                                                                                                                            > > wanted to share the setup and see if any fellow marine hobbyists
                                                                                                                                                            > > have any feedback on it, what other questions should I be
                                                                                                                                                            asking?
                                                                                                                                                            > > The LFS owner said it was a 'great deal' (and he's not selling
                                                                                                                                                            it to
                                                                                                                                                            > > me).
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > Thank you! I hope to learn alot from this group so our start in
                                                                                                                                                            this
                                                                                                                                                            > > hobby is a successful one :-)
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > 55 gallon tank 48"x12"x12"
                                                                                                                                                            > > All glass tank and stand (Black)
                                                                                                                                                            > > Lunar Light with Moon Light
                                                                                                                                                            > > Heater
                                                                                                                                                            > > 60 Series Eco System Hang off the back
                                                                                                                                                            > > Live Sand
                                                                                                                                                            > > Aroma Protein Skimmer
                                                                                                                                                            > > 2 Timer
                                                                                                                                                            > > 2 Power Strips
                                                                                                                                                            > > 2 Power Heads
                                                                                                                                                            > > With one wave maker
                                                                                                                                                            > > upgraded pump on eco system
                                                                                                                                                            > > can filter
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > Selling it for $650
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10992 From: Nan Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                            Yep, that clown will go to town....*LOL*  It doesn't care if you want to keep it or not, he looks at it as a buffet in the shell.  If you take your large one out and put it in another tank it would be fine, otherwise, I hate to say it, he will be dinner..
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            ~nan~

                                                                                                                                                            angelasjenkins@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            I have a large snail, the size of a golfball.  Would a clown loach bother him?  I have so many tiny nuisance snails I'd like to get rid of.
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Angela
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                            Depending on size of tank I see no reason why you could not add a few clown loaches.


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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10993 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: My guppies
                                                                                                                                                            Hi,

                                                                                                                                                            I keep my Male Betta with guppies, unfortunatly the famale guppies pick on
                                                                                                                                                            him, altho he does eat there babys if they are around.

                                                                                                                                                            =Nick

                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                            From: "fuzzybpebble" <fuzzybpebble@...>
                                                                                                                                                            To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 8:41 AM
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] My guppies


                                                                                                                                                            > As you may all know I have 6 adult guppies and two baby (2.5 week)
                                                                                                                                                            > guppies. Well today I noticed that 3 of my adults look pregnant and
                                                                                                                                                            > ready to drop. So I now have 5 tanks going. One for each girl that
                                                                                                                                                            > is pregnant, on for the other group, and one for my Male Betta. I
                                                                                                                                                            > keep Betta separate, because I do not want to have fights or eating of
                                                                                                                                                            > my fish.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > I maybe getting more babies when the mothers have the offspring.
                                                                                                                                                            > These more babies will be the offspring. I am looking forward to that.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Just thought I would drop a note.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Bethany
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                            > .
                                                                                                                                                            > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10994 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                                You can raise the snail in a large jar, but it will be eaten by the loach, maybe a little at a time.  If your tank is under 50 gallons, it would probably be better to get one of the smaller botia loaches.  Zebras stay smaller.
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                            I have a large snail, the size of a golfball.  Would a clown loach bother him?  I have so many tiny nuisance snails I'd like to get rid of.
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Angela
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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10995 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Is CO2 worth the money to make the plants grow better?
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            =Nick
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10996 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                            Patrick, Ray, Steve, anybody what do you think?
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            There are "systems" which include a gas pressures, needle valve, bubble counter, solinoid. 
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 12:44 PM
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Is CO2 worth the money to make the plants grow better?
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            =Nick
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10997 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                            For bigger tanks, those work well for a lot of people. For smaller
                                                                                                                                                            tanks, DIY systems work (using yeast, sugar, water). It also depends on
                                                                                                                                                            the plants kept, the lighting, and the other nutrients that are made
                                                                                                                                                            available.

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                            Nicolas Munro wrote:

                                                                                                                                                            > Patrick, Ray, Steve, anybody what do you think?
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > There are "systems" which include a gas pressures, needle valve,
                                                                                                                                                            > bubble counter, solinoid.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                            > *From:* Nicolas Munro <mailto:nmunro@...>
                                                                                                                                                            > *To:* AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            > <mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                            > *Sent:* Thursday, May 05, 2005 12:44 PM
                                                                                                                                                            > *Subject:* [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Is CO2 worth the money to make the plants grow better?
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > =Nick
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                            > .
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                                                                                                                                                            > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10998 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
                                                                                                                                                            Is this an already established tank, or is it a new kit? If it's already
                                                                                                                                                            been going as-is, you can make changes as you go if you decide you want
                                                                                                                                                            to. If I were setting up a new tank though, there are a few things I
                                                                                                                                                            would do differently (hence the suggestions I made).

                                                                                                                                                            Basically, all you need for a successful tank with just fish is live
                                                                                                                                                            rock, sea salt, water, and power heads. A protein skimmer is also very
                                                                                                                                                            helpful. If you want to do corals and stuff then you also need some
                                                                                                                                                            pretty good lighting.

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                            bethym99 wrote:

                                                                                                                                                            > Thanks for the book recommendation, its on order! :)
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Would you mind elaborating on what I don't need and what you'd
                                                                                                                                                            > replace? I will be setting it up as is to start with... and then
                                                                                                                                                            > modifying as time/$ permit. It will have 4bags of live sand in it...
                                                                                                                                                            > and I'll be purchasing a snall amount of live rock and quite a bit
                                                                                                                                                            > of coral bone to start.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Thanks! :-)
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Trevor" <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > > There are a few things in the list that you don't need, a few
                                                                                                                                                            > things
                                                                                                                                                            > > I'd replace with something else (like the lights), and a few things
                                                                                                                                                            > > you will need that are missing.
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > I'd recommend taking a look at this book to help you get started:
                                                                                                                                                            > > http://tinyurl.com/7eatk (The New Marine Aquarium, by Michael S.
                                                                                                                                                            > Paletta).
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bethym99" <bmetcalf@c...>
                                                                                                                                                            > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > > > I am researching marine tank setups and trying to decide what to
                                                                                                                                                            > > > purchase. Boy, there are alot of options! We are hoping to
                                                                                                                                                            > start a
                                                                                                                                                            > > > tank that can house some marine fish (clowns, tangs, etc) and
                                                                                                                                                            > some
                                                                                                                                                            > > > invertebrates. This setup is available from someone in town and
                                                                                                                                                            > I
                                                                                                                                                            > > > wanted to share the setup and see if any fellow marine hobbyists
                                                                                                                                                            > > > have any feedback on it, what other questions should I be
                                                                                                                                                            > asking?
                                                                                                                                                            > > > The LFS owner said it was a 'great deal' (and he's not selling
                                                                                                                                                            > it to
                                                                                                                                                            > > > me).
                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > > Thank you! I hope to learn alot from this group so our start in
                                                                                                                                                            > this
                                                                                                                                                            > > > hobby is a successful one :-)
                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > > 55 gallon tank 48"x12"x12"
                                                                                                                                                            > > > All glass tank and stand (Black)
                                                                                                                                                            > > > Lunar Light with Moon Light
                                                                                                                                                            > > > Heater
                                                                                                                                                            > > > 60 Series Eco System Hang off the back
                                                                                                                                                            > > > Live Sand
                                                                                                                                                            > > > Aroma Protein Skimmer
                                                                                                                                                            > > > 2 Timer
                                                                                                                                                            > > > 2 Power Strips
                                                                                                                                                            > > > 2 Power Heads
                                                                                                                                                            > > > With one wave maker
                                                                                                                                                            > > > upgraded pump on eco system
                                                                                                                                                            > > > can filter
                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > > Selling it for $650
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                            > .
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                                                                                                                                                            > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 10999 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: 20 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                            Also make sure you rinse it until there is no trace of the smell.

                                                                                                                                                            Another thing you can use to clean with is a salt solution - dissolve a
                                                                                                                                                            bunch of salt in warm water.

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                            Rachel wrote:

                                                                                                                                                            > thank you, i was wondering about that since its a 20 gallon tank.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Rachel
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...>
                                                                                                                                                            > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > > be careful with bleach, if it is too strong it will
                                                                                                                                                            > > damage the silicone. for food service safety, less
                                                                                                                                                            > > than a capful is used in about 20 gallons of water as
                                                                                                                                                            > > a disinfecting rinse. beyond that it is toxic. it
                                                                                                                                                            > > should not smelllike a pool when you make it.
                                                                                                                                                            > > --- FortWayneFish@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > > > i use 1/2 cup bleach to 1 gallon water as a mild
                                                                                                                                                            > > > solution...
                                                                                                                                                            > > > make sure to rinse well and air dry before filling
                                                                                                                                                            > > > for fish....
                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > > In a message dated 5/3/2005 2:11:26 PM US Eastern
                                                                                                                                                            > > > Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                            > > > star9crystal@y... writes:
                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > > > what exactly is a bleach solution?
                                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                                            > >
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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 11000 From: Trevor Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                            Another thing to be aware of with clown loaches is that they can make
                                                                                                                                                            noises when they eat that may surprise you at first. When I had my
                                                                                                                                                            clown loaches in my 10 gallon tank at work, it sounded like the glass
                                                                                                                                                            was cracking! I have since moved them to my 150 gallon tank and don't
                                                                                                                                                            notice the noise - I'm guessing it's because of the bigger tank.

                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "The Dragon Hunter"
                                                                                                                                                            <dragon.hunter@d...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > Yea. clowns are great. Takes a while to get used to some of their
                                                                                                                                                            quirks,
                                                                                                                                                            > but once you do, they're fun to watch. Lots of character. mine will
                                                                                                                                                            > periodically lay on their sides till the others pass and then chase and
                                                                                                                                                            > alternate, kinda like tag. They also like to bat snail shells
                                                                                                                                                            around and
                                                                                                                                                            > will smash them against the glass.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                            > From: "Trevor" <trevor@h...>
                                                                                                                                                            > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                            > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 10:13 AM
                                                                                                                                                            > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > > Clown loaches are great for getting rid of snails. :)
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "AL" <ALKILLIAN@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                            > > > My wifes tanks has snails that came from some plants we
                                                                                                                                                            bought and
                                                                                                                                                            > > > she hates them. Is there any way to get rid of them and there slim
                                                                                                                                                            > > > sacs without draining the tank?
                                                                                                                                                            > > > Al K.
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                            > > .
                                                                                                                                                            > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                            important to
                                                                                                                                                            > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                            > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                            Thank You
                                                                                                                                                            > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 11001 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: coffee cups in tanks?
                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 5/4/2005 5:27:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time, wendieo@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                            I use small colored or clear glass votives that I find in Wal-mart or someplace like that.
                                                                                                                                                            Wendie
                                                                                                                                                            Thanks Wendie, I wll loo for some nexttime
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 11002 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                I don't like CO2 injection because, except where there are underwater gas springs, it isn't natural.  The natural way to give plants CO2 is to add more fish (2 inches per gallon of small fish like tetras, rasboras, and danios) and carbon sources (flourish excel) if you need them.  It works for me, but I don't have fancy plants.  I prefer plants that live in a wide range of conditions.  If you are going to have fancy plants, somebody with experience with them will have to help you.  I will say this, if I don't add excel, the plants start turning yellow in about 2 weeks, and get bad in one month.  I add it about twice a week at one cap doses.  Maybe I should be a seachem salesman? :)
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                            Patrick, Ray, Steve, anybody what do you think?
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            There are "systems" which include a gas pressures, needle valve, bubble counter, solinoid. 
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Is CO2 worth the money to make the plants grow better?
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            =Nick
                                                                                                                                                            Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 11003 From: paul helms Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                            not true at all
                                                                                                                                                            --- Trevor <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > Plecos don't actually eat algae. They eat the
                                                                                                                                                            > animals in the algae.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                            > <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > > from what i've heard plecs don't do such a great
                                                                                                                                                            > job of algae eating
                                                                                                                                                            > as they mature. so maybe
                                                                                                                                                            > > they're not a good idea for you anyway. maybe you
                                                                                                                                                            > could try the tank
                                                                                                                                                            > w/o an algae eater and see
                                                                                                                                                            > > how it works. if algae develops then you can look
                                                                                                                                                            > into more algae
                                                                                                                                                            > eaters or clean it off w/a
                                                                                                                                                            > > magnet or a tank brush. just my thoughts.
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > > I got rid of my two giant plecos. The last one
                                                                                                                                                            > about a month ago. I
                                                                                                                                                            > > > figure it's about time to get something to start
                                                                                                                                                            > eating this stuff
                                                                                                                                                            > but I
                                                                                                                                                            > > > REALLY do NOT want a plecostamus. I think they
                                                                                                                                                            > are so nasty.
                                                                                                                                                            > > > I thought about the Chinese algae eaters, but I
                                                                                                                                                            > am fairly certain they
                                                                                                                                                            > > > will be munched as they are purchased young and
                                                                                                                                                            > small. (they are the
                                                                                                                                                            > > > size of our feeder fish.)
                                                                                                                                                            > > > Any other suggestions? Do I have to have an
                                                                                                                                                            > algae eater or can I do
                                                                                                                                                            > > > without one somehow? If I get plecos, I've been
                                                                                                                                                            > advised to get two
                                                                                                                                                            > > > small ones. When they grow to about 5", I'm to
                                                                                                                                                            > turn in one to LFS and
                                                                                                                                                            > > > keep the other. Then repeat this as the other
                                                                                                                                                            > grows too large. But
                                                                                                                                                            > > > again, I don't want plecos. They are so
                                                                                                                                                            > contaminating!
                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > > Leslie
                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                            > > I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >




                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 11004 From: kb1dva Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Help!
                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                              I know there is something wrong with this pacu's mouth, it never looked like
                                                                                                                                                              that before what should I do Emily
                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11005 From: Rachel Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                              Subject: light
                                                                                                                                                              is there some sort of lighting system out there that turns off and on
                                                                                                                                                              by itself.
                                                                                                                                                              was thinking of putting some live plants in the goldfish tank for them
                                                                                                                                                              to munch on and help the water system.
                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11006 From: kb1dva Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                              Subject: pacu

                                                                                                                                                              It kind of looks like someone bit him? I did notice him slamming himself around lately. Any ideas of what I can do for him   Emily

                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11007 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: pacu
                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/4/2005 10:03:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, vze3pd7a@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                              It kind of looks like someone bit him? I did notice him slamming himself around lately. Any ideas of what I can do for him   Emily

                                                                                                                                                              I can't think of the product name off hand, but it has something to do with an artificial slime coat to replace what the fish lost, this prevents infection and can help speed growth. 
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              I had a pacu and he was always ramming into solid objects, they spook so darn easy.
                                                                                                                                                              Mike
                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11008 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: light

                                                                                                                                                              Get a timer at any hardware store...  
                                                                                                                                                              set it for the time you want it to come on and time you want it to go off. easy as that
                                                                                                                                                              I got mine at Home depot for under $5


                                                                                                                                                              rob
                                                                                                                                                              Indiana

                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/5/2005 12:01:14 AM US Eastern Standard Time, star9crystal@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                              is there some sort of lighting system out there that turns off and on
                                                                                                                                                              by itself.
                                                                                                                                                              was thinking of putting some live plants in the goldfish tank for them
                                                                                                                                                              to munch on and help the water system.


                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11009 From: Amalthea Date: 5/4/2005
                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                              co2 doesn't really have to cost you more than a bag of sugar and a packet of yeast to start with. for less than $5 you can find out for yourself!
                                                                                                                                                              amalthea

                                                                                                                                                              http://www.amaltheasattic.com

                                                                                                                                                              Your Alternative to the Alternative....


                                                                                                                                                              On May 4, 2005, at 10:44 PM, Nicolas Munro wrote:

                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              Is CO2 worth the money to make the plants grow better?
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              =Nick


                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11010 From: Robert Hickey Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Ph issue
                                                                                                                                                              I use stress coat when changing water
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              And I siphon the water in and out and weekly clean the gravel
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              ?????
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              Any ideas
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              Rob
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              Regards
                                                                                                                                                              Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              Robert Hickey | Networks Engineer Citywest Business Park | BT | Tel: +353
                                                                                                                                                              (0)1 43258749
                                                                                                                                                              | Mob: +353 (0)86 8061840 | E: robert.hickey@... | www.btireland.ie
                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 1:14 AM
                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ph issue

                                                                                                                                                              Let the water sit in buckets for a few hours and see if that helps.  You might also try putting a plate on the surface of the water to pour the water in on, in case you are stirring something up.  Plants would more than likely lower pH, not raise it.  I figure it is either something in the water treatment you use, or the test kit is not accurate.
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                              Hi all
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              Quick Qustion maybe someone can help Me with  My tank is cycled and running now for a few months
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              However every time I do a 30% water Change the ph shoots up to 7.6 even with my standard tap water being 7 , my tank is usually soft with ph 6.7 as its all south american,
                                                                                                                                                              Its heavyly planted And noticed the water Was a bit smelly,
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              Could it be death of decaying plants?
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              Any help is great?
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              This never happened before only in the last week!!!
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              Thanks
                                                                                                                                                              Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

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                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11011 From: paul helms Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: pacu
                                                                                                                                                              stress coat or novaqua
                                                                                                                                                              --- kb1dva <vze3pd7a@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                              > It kind of looks like someone bit him? I did notice
                                                                                                                                                              > him slamming himself
                                                                                                                                                              > around lately. Any ideas of what I can do for him
                                                                                                                                                              > Emily
                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11012 From: paul helms Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: light
                                                                                                                                                              live plants and gold fish are not always a good idea,
                                                                                                                                                              they can damage/kill the plant causing it to rot in
                                                                                                                                                              the tank
                                                                                                                                                              --- Rachel <star9crystal@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                              > is there some sort of lighting system out there that
                                                                                                                                                              > turns off and on
                                                                                                                                                              > by itself.
                                                                                                                                                              > was thinking of putting some live plants in the
                                                                                                                                                              > goldfish tank for them
                                                                                                                                                              > to munch on and help the water system.
                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11013 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                Hi Amalthea, how do you do that? How do you mix it? I have Anubus Nana and Anubus Barteri and just a couple of weeks ago I noticed that the leaves are like being picked on by my goldies. The leaves is like a snail took a bite on them and then it would turn yellowish and spotted with brown color. I would like to try the co2 if it would make them healthier. Is there a medicine to help them grow?
                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                I don't have snails. The leave were fine for 7 months until just recently. I don't see any snail around. I haven't added any plants before that but I did add plants after it happened cause I wanted my goldies to pick on something else except my Anubus which cost a bit.
                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                From: Amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                Date: 05/04/05 19:44:49
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                co2 doesn't really have to cost you more than a bag of sugar and a packet of yeast to start with. for less than $5 you can find out for yourself!
                                                                                                                                                                amalthea

                                                                                                                                                                http://www.amaltheasattic.com

                                                                                                                                                                Your Alternative to the Alternative....


                                                                                                                                                                On May 4, 2005, at 10:44 PM, Nicolas Munro wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                Is CO2 worth the money to make the plants grow better?
                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                =Nick




                                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11014 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                                Excel is great. I agree. I am myself drifting towards no CO2 injection as I found another way to help plants get CO2 J. This is very ironic but even more strangely it works and is different from anything else that has been assumed.

                                                                                                                                                                Creating lot of surface agitation helps dissolve atmospheric CO2 in the water. The amount of this CO2 varies on a lot of factors like Temperature, PH, KH mainly. I have a high light tank with no CO2 injection and the plants are doing absolutely great. Needless to say that with high surface agitation, CO2 produced by fish and bacteria is lost but there is a constant small supply of CO2.

                                                                                                                                                                If you want a moderate growth lush planted tank, try this way and see if it works for you. I have yet to come across someone who has even tried this method. With CO2 injection, plants grow a bit faster but unnatural.

                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                Ps: I know this defies Diana Walstad’s theory but …. Every theory can be challenged sometimes???

                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                                                                                                                Sent: 05 May 2005 05:32
                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                    I don't like CO2 injection because, except where there are underwater gas springs, it isn't natural.  The natural way to give plants CO2 is to add more fish (2 inches per gallon of small fish like tetras, rasboras, and danios) and carbon sources (flourish excel) if you need them.  It works for me, but I don't have fancy plants.  I prefer plants that live in a wide range of conditions.  If you are going to have fancy plants, somebody with experience with them will have to help you.  I will say this, if I don't add excel, the plants start turning yellow in about 2 weeks, and get bad in one month.  I add it about twice a week at one cap doses.  Maybe I should be a seachem salesman? :)

                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.

                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                                                Patrick, Ray, Steve, anybody what do you think?

                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                There are "systems" which include a gas pressures, needle valve, bubble counter, solinoid. 

                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                Is CO2 worth the money to make the plants grow better?

                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                =Nick

                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

                                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11015 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                                no

                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Nicolas Munro
                                                                                                                                                                Sent: 05 May 2005 03:44
                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                Is CO2 worth the money to make the plants grow better?

                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                =Nick



                                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11016 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Help!
                                                                                                                                                                Emily,

                                                                                                                                                                Kind of hard for me to tell from the photo, but is that just raw skin, or is
                                                                                                                                                                it fungus developing on the mouth? If it is just raw skin, use the Novaqua
                                                                                                                                                                mentioned earlier. If it is beginning to fungus, at this early stage a bit
                                                                                                                                                                of salt--maybe 1/2 tsp. Per 5 gallons, would catch it rather than going out
                                                                                                                                                                to purchase a fungus medication. If you do use the medication, read the
                                                                                                                                                                label carefully before you purchase it, and follow the directions
                                                                                                                                                                explicitly.

                                                                                                                                                                \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                Behalf Of kb1dva
                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 1:00 AM
                                                                                                                                                                To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Help!


                                                                                                                                                                I know there is something wrong with this pacu's mouth, it never looked like
                                                                                                                                                                that before what should I do Emily
                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11017 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                The expense of these "systems" probably depends on where your main
                                                                                                                                                                interest lies -- plants or fish. If your main interest is in growing
                                                                                                                                                                large luxurient plants, and that's your thing, then go for it. If
                                                                                                                                                                your main interest is in fish, with an added interest in growing nice
                                                                                                                                                                plants, forget about it -- its not needed. Then too, there are
                                                                                                                                                                simple CO2 generators that can be rigged up a lot cheaper if you
                                                                                                                                                                still prefer CO2. Personally, I don't feel that CO2 injection is
                                                                                                                                                                necessary for anyone except for those who really want to grow
                                                                                                                                                                umongous plants. Many years ago, before there was such a thing as
                                                                                                                                                                CO2 injection, I was able to continually grow exceptionally nice
                                                                                                                                                                plants in my community tanks for years, and there's no reason why any
                                                                                                                                                                other hobbyist can't do the same. My Amazon Sword plants use to
                                                                                                                                                                bloom and grow new leaves all the time, as well as my Sagittaria
                                                                                                                                                                subulata. The Crytocorynes did equally well, with all plants sending
                                                                                                                                                                out runners to establish new plants. Its all a matter of balance and
                                                                                                                                                                simple knowledge of plant nutrition. No, you can never expect plants
                                                                                                                                                                to do real well in a freshly set up tank; they require some nutients
                                                                                                                                                                (properly broken down fish waste) in the substrate. Often, Planttabs
                                                                                                                                                                were pushed down in between the roots when I thought about it. The
                                                                                                                                                                fish use to thrive and show their best colors in this environment.
                                                                                                                                                                Some attention had to be made for a proper balance of light for the
                                                                                                                                                                different plant species, part of which was indirect sun (an eastern
                                                                                                                                                                exposure), receiving a few hours of sun in the morning only. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas Munro" <nmunro@q...>
                                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                > Patrick, Ray, Steve, anybody what do you think?
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > There are "systems" which include a gas pressures, needle valve,
                                                                                                                                                                bubble counter, solinoid.
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                > From: Nicolas Munro
                                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 12:44 PM
                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > Is CO2 worth the money to make the plants grow better?
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11018 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                There seams to be a big drive towards the do it your self yeast based
                                                                                                                                                                CO2 generation. I like Amaltheas suggestion of a bag of sugar and yeast.


                                                                                                                                                                Dose any one have a prefered recipe?

                                                                                                                                                                or does that Excell stuff work better for less.


                                                                                                                                                                =Nick

                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Wetzel" <sevenspringss@w...>
                                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                > The expense of these "systems" probably depends on where your main
                                                                                                                                                                > interest lies -- plants or fish.
                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11019 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: CO2 for plants
                                                                                                                                                                Using a funnel or rolled up paper, pour 2 cups of sugar into the
                                                                                                                                                                bottle. Add 1/4 teaspoon of baker's yeast and a pinch of baking soda.
                                                                                                                                                                Pour in a little warm water (NOT hot) and mix around to dissolve the
                                                                                                                                                                sugar and yeast. Then fill to the shoulder (just above the label on a
                                                                                                                                                                soda bottle) with warm water. Shake well and cap with the tubing-cap
                                                                                                                                                                assembly. Run the other end of the tubing into the aquarium.

                                                                                                                                                                ref: http://www.tropicalfishcentre.co.uk/Diyco2.htm

                                                                                                                                                                Apparently adding more yeast will give a greater burst of initial CO2
                                                                                                                                                                output, but then the yeast will use up the sugar more quickly and die
                                                                                                                                                                off more quickly.

                                                                                                                                                                Using less sugar will decrease the overall lifespan of the culture.

                                                                                                                                                                The baking soda helps to maintain pH and provide greater tolerance to
                                                                                                                                                                the buildup of alcohol in the culture medium.
                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11020 From: Nicolas J. Munro Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Plants CO2
                                                                                                                                                                One website said:

                                                                                                                                                                The yeast method can cause serious damage to the walls of your house if
                                                                                                                                                                not vented.

                                                                                                                                                                Is this a common place occurance or just an extream case?
                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11021 From: bethym99 Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
                                                                                                                                                                Well, it's a new to me tank. However, it has been in use as a marine
                                                                                                                                                                tank for about a year. It has a pretty good amount of live sand in
                                                                                                                                                                the base of it which the owner has kept things running so it stays
                                                                                                                                                                alive. The ecosystem on the back has some livesand/liverock in it.
                                                                                                                                                                Theoretically, I'll have some pretty good bacterial colonies and
                                                                                                                                                                avoid a long cycle time. The lighting has two florescent bulbs and
                                                                                                                                                                two of the 'blue light' bulbs as well as 3 'moon lights'? Sorry, I
                                                                                                                                                                can't remember the technical name for it. -- does that help?

                                                                                                                                                                Appreciate the feedback, I can't wait to get it here and setup. Once
                                                                                                                                                                we get the back painted we'll be ready to move it in :-)

                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...>
                                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                > Is this an already established tank, or is it a new kit? If it's
                                                                                                                                                                already
                                                                                                                                                                > been going as-is, you can make changes as you go if you decide you
                                                                                                                                                                want
                                                                                                                                                                > to. If I were setting up a new tank though, there are a few things
                                                                                                                                                                I
                                                                                                                                                                > would do differently (hence the suggestions I made).
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > Basically, all you need for a successful tank with just fish is
                                                                                                                                                                live
                                                                                                                                                                > rock, sea salt, water, and power heads. A protein skimmer is also
                                                                                                                                                                very
                                                                                                                                                                > helpful. If you want to do corals and stuff then you also need
                                                                                                                                                                some
                                                                                                                                                                > pretty good lighting.
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > bethym99 wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > > Thanks for the book recommendation, its on order! :)
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > Would you mind elaborating on what I don't need and what you'd
                                                                                                                                                                > > replace? I will be setting it up as is to start with... and then
                                                                                                                                                                > > modifying as time/$ permit. It will have 4bags of live sand in
                                                                                                                                                                it...
                                                                                                                                                                > > and I'll be purchasing a snall amount of live rock and quite a
                                                                                                                                                                bit
                                                                                                                                                                > > of coral bone to start.
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > Thanks! :-)
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Trevor" <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                > > > There are a few things in the list that you don't need, a few
                                                                                                                                                                > > things
                                                                                                                                                                > > > I'd replace with something else (like the lights), and a few
                                                                                                                                                                things
                                                                                                                                                                > > > you will need that are missing.
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > I'd recommend taking a look at this book to help you get
                                                                                                                                                                started:
                                                                                                                                                                > > > http://tinyurl.com/7eatk (The New Marine Aquarium, by Michael
                                                                                                                                                                S.
                                                                                                                                                                > > Paletta).
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bethym99" <bmetcalf@c...>
                                                                                                                                                                > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > I am researching marine tank setups and trying to decide
                                                                                                                                                                what to
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > purchase. Boy, there are alot of options! We are hoping to
                                                                                                                                                                > > start a
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > tank that can house some marine fish (clowns, tangs, etc) and
                                                                                                                                                                > > some
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > invertebrates. This setup is available from someone in town
                                                                                                                                                                and
                                                                                                                                                                > > I
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > wanted to share the setup and see if any fellow marine
                                                                                                                                                                hobbyists
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > have any feedback on it, what other questions should I be
                                                                                                                                                                > > asking?
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > The LFS owner said it was a 'great deal' (and he's not
                                                                                                                                                                selling
                                                                                                                                                                > > it to
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > me).
                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > Thank you! I hope to learn alot from this group so our start
                                                                                                                                                                in
                                                                                                                                                                > > this
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > hobby is a successful one :-)
                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > 55 gallon tank 48"x12"x12"
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > All glass tank and stand (Black)
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > Lunar Light with Moon Light
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > Heater
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > 60 Series Eco System Hang off the back
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > Live Sand
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > Aroma Protein Skimmer
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > 2 Timer
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > 2 Power Strips
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > 2 Power Heads
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > With one wave maker
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > upgraded pump on eco system
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > can filter
                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > Selling it for $650
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re:
                                                                                                                                                                old
                                                                                                                                                                > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                matter
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > >
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                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11022 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                Like I said in response to a similar e-mail, I'm not sure where I read
                                                                                                                                                                that, but it would seem to explain the behavior of the ones I have. It
                                                                                                                                                                wouldn't surprise me at all if it's not really true though. However,
                                                                                                                                                                with so many types of plecos that they've given them L numbers instead
                                                                                                                                                                of names, surely there are some for which that is the case? ;)

                                                                                                                                                                - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                paul helms wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                > not true at all
                                                                                                                                                                > --- Trevor <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                > > Plecos don't actually eat algae. They eat the
                                                                                                                                                                > > animals in the algae.
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                > > <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                > > > from what i've heard plecs don't do such a great
                                                                                                                                                                > > job of algae eating
                                                                                                                                                                > > as they mature. so maybe
                                                                                                                                                                > > > they're not a good idea for you anyway. maybe you
                                                                                                                                                                > > could try the tank
                                                                                                                                                                > > w/o an algae eater and see
                                                                                                                                                                > > > how it works. if algae develops then you can look
                                                                                                                                                                > > into more algae
                                                                                                                                                                > > eaters or clean it off w/a
                                                                                                                                                                > > > magnet or a tank brush. just my thoughts.
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > I got rid of my two giant plecos. The last one
                                                                                                                                                                > > about a month ago. I
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > figure it's about time to get something to start
                                                                                                                                                                > > eating this stuff
                                                                                                                                                                > > but I
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > REALLY do NOT want a plecostamus. I think they
                                                                                                                                                                > > are so nasty.
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > I thought about the Chinese algae eaters, but I
                                                                                                                                                                > > am fairly certain they
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > will be munched as they are purchased young and
                                                                                                                                                                > > small. (they are the
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > size of our feeder fish.)
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > Any other suggestions? Do I have to have an
                                                                                                                                                                > > algae eater or can I do
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > without one somehow? If I get plecos, I've been
                                                                                                                                                                > > advised to get two
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > small ones. When they grow to about 5", I'm to
                                                                                                                                                                > > turn in one to LFS and
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > keep the other. Then repeat this as the other
                                                                                                                                                                > > grows too large. But
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > again, I don't want plecos. They are so
                                                                                                                                                                > > contaminating!
                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > Leslie
                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
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                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                                > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11023 From: Trevor Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Plants CO2
                                                                                                                                                                It sounds like an extreme case. I'm using the yeast method in my
                                                                                                                                                                office at work, and I don't think I'd dare if I knew it were a
                                                                                                                                                                commonplace occurrence. :)

                                                                                                                                                                I'm actually using the Hagen/Nutrafin Natural Plant System. It comes
                                                                                                                                                                with a plastic canister, "CO2 resistant" tubing, and a bubble
                                                                                                                                                                counter/diffuser. It also comes with "activator" and "stabilizer"
                                                                                                                                                                packets, which you combine with sugar and water that you provide. Of
                                                                                                                                                                course, the "activator" and "stabilizer" is just yeast and baking
                                                                                                                                                                soda, so when I ran out of packets I didn't bother to buy more. The
                                                                                                                                                                packets just contained 1/4 teaspoon of each.

                                                                                                                                                                The interesting thing is that I'm lazy enough that I don't get around
                                                                                                                                                                to restarting the fermentation process for sometimes months after the
                                                                                                                                                                bubbles have stopped coming out. Because of that, I've noticed that it
                                                                                                                                                                doesn't seem to make any visible difference on the plants. I only keep
                                                                                                                                                                using it so I don't feel foolish for buying it. :D Plus, it's kind of
                                                                                                                                                                fun to watch the bubbles.

                                                                                                                                                                The 10 gallon tank I'm using it in has flourite for the substrate, 2
                                                                                                                                                                15 watt flourescent light strips, a couple of cherry barbs, a siamese
                                                                                                                                                                algae eater, and a bunch of Endlers Livebearers. Unfortunately, I
                                                                                                                                                                don't remember right offhand what kinds of plants I currently have in
                                                                                                                                                                there.

                                                                                                                                                                - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas J. Munro" <nmunro@q...>
                                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                > One website said:
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > The yeast method can cause serious damage to the walls of your house if
                                                                                                                                                                > not vented.
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > Is this a common place occurance or just an extream case?
                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11024 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Plants CO2
                                                                                                                                                                Oh, I forgot to mention, in reference to your question about it
                                                                                                                                                                "caus[ing] serious damage to the walls of your house if not vented",
                                                                                                                                                                that the Nutrafin system canister has a "patented Pressure-Release
                                                                                                                                                                Safety Cover [that] prevents internal pressure from exceeding safe
                                                                                                                                                                limits." I'm guessing that this is in how the threads are that the lid
                                                                                                                                                                screws on to - they don't go all the way around. As far as I know, this
                                                                                                                                                                has never been necessary on mine.

                                                                                                                                                                - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                Trevor wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                > It sounds like an extreme case. I'm using the yeast method in my
                                                                                                                                                                > office at work, and I don't think I'd dare if I knew it were a
                                                                                                                                                                > commonplace occurrence. :)
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > I'm actually using the Hagen/Nutrafin Natural Plant System. It comes
                                                                                                                                                                > with a plastic canister, "CO2 resistant" tubing, and a bubble
                                                                                                                                                                > counter/diffuser. It also comes with "activator" and "stabilizer"
                                                                                                                                                                > packets, which you combine with sugar and water that you provide. Of
                                                                                                                                                                > course, the "activator" and "stabilizer" is just yeast and baking
                                                                                                                                                                > soda, so when I ran out of packets I didn't bother to buy more. The
                                                                                                                                                                > packets just contained 1/4 teaspoon of each.
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > The interesting thing is that I'm lazy enough that I don't get around
                                                                                                                                                                > to restarting the fermentation process for sometimes months after the
                                                                                                                                                                > bubbles have stopped coming out. Because of that, I've noticed that it
                                                                                                                                                                > doesn't seem to make any visible difference on the plants. I only keep
                                                                                                                                                                > using it so I don't feel foolish for buying it. :D Plus, it's kind of
                                                                                                                                                                > fun to watch the bubbles.
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > The 10 gallon tank I'm using it in has flourite for the substrate, 2
                                                                                                                                                                > 15 watt flourescent light strips, a couple of cherry barbs, a siamese
                                                                                                                                                                > algae eater, and a bunch of Endlers Livebearers. Unfortunately, I
                                                                                                                                                                > don't remember right offhand what kinds of plants I currently have in
                                                                                                                                                                > there.
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas J. Munro" <nmunro@q...>
                                                                                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                > > One website said:
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > The yeast method can cause serious damage to the walls of your house if
                                                                                                                                                                > > not vented.
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > Is this a common place occurance or just an extream case?
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11025 From: Amalthea Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                I have a 55 gallon, so I use two 2 liter soda bottles and in each I put 2 cups of sugar, 2 tsp. of yeast, a pinch of baking soda and fill up to where the top of the label would be if i hadn't peeled it with lukewarm water. I shake the whole thing up until it's mixed and attach caps which have tubing running through them, made airtight with silicone for aquariums and run the lines to the intake of my canister filter. Each bottle lasts about 2 weeks. If you want them to last longer, you can use a Jell-o mix to suspend the sugar, but I find that by staggering the bottles a few days (so that one runs out a bit before the other) I always have a steady supply. 
                                                                                                                                                                Amalthea

                                                                                                                                                                http://www.amaltheasattic.com

                                                                                                                                                                Your Alternative to the Alternative....


                                                                                                                                                                On May 5, 2005, at 5:20 AM, Rei - Raymond Tremor wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                Hi Amalthea, how do you do that? How do you mix it? I have Anubus Nana and Anubus Barteri and just a couple of weeks ago I noticed that the leaves are like being picked on by my goldies. The leaves is like a snail took a bite on them and then it would turn yellowish and spotted with brown color. I would like to try the co2 if it would make them healthier. Is there a medicine to help them grow?
                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                I don't have snails. The leave were fine for 7 months until just recently. I don't see any snail around. I haven't added any plants before that but I did add plants after it happened cause I wanted my goldies to pick on something else except my Anubus which cost a bit.
                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                <
                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11026 From: Amalthea Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                I have used excel in combination with the yeast co2 method and that works really well also. better than either alone.
                                                                                                                                                                amalthea

                                                                                                                                                                Get em' while they're cheap!

                                                                                                                                                                Lip Service, Serious, Goth, Punk, Rockabilly and More are all in the Basement....

                                                                                                                                                                http://stores.ebay.com/Amaltheas-Basement-Bargain-Shop


                                                                                                                                                                On May 5, 2005, at 7:55 AM, Nicolas J. Munro wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                There seams to be a big drive towards the do it your self yeast based
                                                                                                                                                                CO2 generation. I like Amaltheas suggestion of a bag of sugar and yeast.


                                                                                                                                                                Dose any one have a prefered recipe? 

                                                                                                                                                                or does that Excell stuff work better for less.


                                                                                                                                                                =Nick

                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Wetzel" <sevenspringss@w...>
                                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                > The expense of these "systems" probably depends on where your main
                                                                                                                                                                > interest lies -- plants or fish.




                                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Groups Links


                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11027 From: Trevor Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
                                                                                                                                                                I had overlooked the refugium on your list. You can do some fun things
                                                                                                                                                                with that. (Can you tell that I want one? :) )

                                                                                                                                                                It sounds like you have enough light to be able to do some things
                                                                                                                                                                besides fish. I've got 2 flourescent bulbs over my 40 gal. tank, and
                                                                                                                                                                I've got some mushrooms doing pretty well in it.

                                                                                                                                                                - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bethym99" <bmetcalf@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                > Well, it's a new to me tank. However, it has been in use as a marine
                                                                                                                                                                > tank for about a year. It has a pretty good amount of live sand in
                                                                                                                                                                > the base of it which the owner has kept things running so it stays
                                                                                                                                                                > alive. The ecosystem on the back has some livesand/liverock in it.
                                                                                                                                                                > Theoretically, I'll have some pretty good bacterial colonies and
                                                                                                                                                                > avoid a long cycle time. The lighting has two florescent bulbs and
                                                                                                                                                                > two of the 'blue light' bulbs as well as 3 'moon lights'? Sorry, I
                                                                                                                                                                > can't remember the technical name for it. -- does that help?
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > Appreciate the feedback, I can't wait to get it here and setup. Once
                                                                                                                                                                > we get the back painted we'll be ready to move it in :-)
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...>
                                                                                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                > > Is this an already established tank, or is it a new kit? If it's
                                                                                                                                                                > already
                                                                                                                                                                > > been going as-is, you can make changes as you go if you decide you
                                                                                                                                                                > want
                                                                                                                                                                > > to. If I were setting up a new tank though, there are a few things
                                                                                                                                                                > I
                                                                                                                                                                > > would do differently (hence the suggestions I made).
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > Basically, all you need for a successful tank with just fish is
                                                                                                                                                                > live
                                                                                                                                                                > > rock, sea salt, water, and power heads. A protein skimmer is also
                                                                                                                                                                > very
                                                                                                                                                                > > helpful. If you want to do corals and stuff then you also need
                                                                                                                                                                > some
                                                                                                                                                                > > pretty good lighting.
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > bethym99 wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > Thanks for the book recommendation, its on order! :)
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > Would you mind elaborating on what I don't need and what you'd
                                                                                                                                                                > > > replace? I will be setting it up as is to start with... and then
                                                                                                                                                                > > > modifying as time/$ permit. It will have 4bags of live sand in
                                                                                                                                                                > it...
                                                                                                                                                                > > > and I'll be purchasing a snall amount of live rock and quite a
                                                                                                                                                                > bit
                                                                                                                                                                > > > of coral bone to start.
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > Thanks! :-)
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Trevor" <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > There are a few things in the list that you don't need, a few
                                                                                                                                                                > > > things
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > I'd replace with something else (like the lights), and a few
                                                                                                                                                                > things
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > you will need that are missing.
                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > I'd recommend taking a look at this book to help you get
                                                                                                                                                                > started:
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > http://tinyurl.com/7eatk (The New Marine Aquarium, by Michael
                                                                                                                                                                > S.
                                                                                                                                                                > > > Paletta).
                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bethym99" <bmetcalf@c...>
                                                                                                                                                                > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > I am researching marine tank setups and trying to decide
                                                                                                                                                                > what to
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > purchase. Boy, there are alot of options! We are hoping to
                                                                                                                                                                > > > start a
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > tank that can house some marine fish (clowns, tangs, etc) and
                                                                                                                                                                > > > some
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > invertebrates. This setup is available from someone in town
                                                                                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                                                                                > > > I
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > wanted to share the setup and see if any fellow marine
                                                                                                                                                                > hobbyists
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > have any feedback on it, what other questions should I be
                                                                                                                                                                > > > asking?
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > The LFS owner said it was a 'great deal' (and he's not
                                                                                                                                                                > selling
                                                                                                                                                                > > > it to
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > me).
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Thank you! I hope to learn alot from this group so our start
                                                                                                                                                                > in
                                                                                                                                                                > > > this
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > hobby is a successful one :-)
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > 55 gallon tank 48"x12"x12"
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > All glass tank and stand (Black)
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Lunar Light with Moon Light
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Heater
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > 60 Series Eco System Hang off the back
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Live Sand
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Aroma Protein Skimmer
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > 2 Timer
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > 2 Power Strips
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > 2 Power Heads
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > With one wave maker
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > upgraded pump on eco system
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > can filter
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > > > Selling it for $650
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                > > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                > > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re:
                                                                                                                                                                > old
                                                                                                                                                                > > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                > matter
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                > -------
                                                                                                                                                                > > > *Yahoo! Groups Links*
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                > > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                                                                                                                                                > subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                                                > > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11028 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                I wonder what affect the shaking has on it, if any? The instructions
                                                                                                                                                                with the yeast system that I bought don't say to shake it, so I never
                                                                                                                                                                have. I'm guessing that when I add the water it stirs it up at least a
                                                                                                                                                                little bit, anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                Amalthea wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                > I have a 55 gallon, so I use two 2 liter soda bottles and in each I
                                                                                                                                                                > put 2 cups of sugar, 2 tsp. of yeast, a pinch of baking soda and fill
                                                                                                                                                                > up to where the top of the label would be if i hadn't peeled it with
                                                                                                                                                                > lukewarm water. I shake the whole thing up until it's mixed and attach
                                                                                                                                                                > caps which have tubing running through them, made airtight with
                                                                                                                                                                > silicone for aquariums and run the lines to the intake of my canister
                                                                                                                                                                > filter. Each bottle lasts about 2 weeks. If you want them to last
                                                                                                                                                                > longer, you can use a Jell-o mix to suspend the sugar, but I find that
                                                                                                                                                                > by staggering the bottles a few days (so that one runs out a bit
                                                                                                                                                                > before the other) I always have a steady supply.
                                                                                                                                                                > Amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > Your Alternative to the Alternative....
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > On May 5, 2005, at 5:20 AM, Rei - Raymond Tremor wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                >> Hi Amalthea, how do you do that? How do you mix it? I have Anubus
                                                                                                                                                                >> Nana and Anubus Barteri and just a couple of weeks ago I noticed that
                                                                                                                                                                >> the leaves are like being picked on by my goldies. The leaves is like
                                                                                                                                                                >> a snail took a bite on them and then it would turn yellowish and
                                                                                                                                                                >> spotted with brown color. I would like to try the co2 if it would
                                                                                                                                                                >> make them healthier. Is there a medicine to help them grow?
                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                >> I don't have snails. The leave were fine for 7 months until just
                                                                                                                                                                >> recently. I don't see any snail around. I haven't added any plants
                                                                                                                                                                >> before that but I did add plants after it happened cause I wanted my
                                                                                                                                                                >> goldies to pick on something else except my Anubus which cost a bit.
                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                >> <
                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11029 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Bully Blood Parrot

                                                                                                                                                                As most know, my larger BP bullies the smaller one.  So much so that the small guy just seems to pass out on the gravel and let the big one beat on him.  He gets so tired he can’t even fight back or swim away.  I moved the big one to another tank but he seemed to be stressed after about a week, maybe the water quality but I will check that in a bit as it’s new.

                                                                                                                                                                Anyway, this didn’t happen when these guys had no place to hide. 

                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                I just realized that when I created driftwood hideouts for them is when all of this started so fiercely.  If I were to take away their hideouts, would this help?  I hate to do that as I have read time after time that they really need their own space.  But this guy wants everyone’s space.  Any ideas?  

                                                                                                                                                                One more thing:  in his other isolation tank, I had a rock cave for him to hide in.  He LOVED this.  So I moved the rock cave into the big tank hoping he would claim this as his own and leave the other places alone.  NO such luck.  He won’t even go into the rock cave but fights the others off when they try to get into it.  Just like kids, I swear.  ;)  My firemouth is still in isolation in the screen.  Eeesh

                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11030 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Bully Blood Parrot
                                                                                                                                                                By removing all the decorations, more or less having a bare tank with gravel in it should help with aggression. No place to run, no place to hide, no place to call your own.

                                                                                                                                                                People do this all the time with BIG cichlids.  My Oscar tank has 2 things in it. A rock wall/airstone big enough not to get knocked over, and a small plastic plant for the Oscars to throw around. 
                                                                                                                                                                There is still aggression but not as bad if they had territories to call there own.

                                                                                                                                                                The smaller BP should go to Isolation tank in the future if need be. The weaker or sicker fish is the one in need of special care. While in isolation feed him well, baby the snot out of it so it will regain some strength.


                                                                                                                                                                rob
                                                                                                                                                                Indiana


                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 5/5/2005 10:55:02 AM US Eastern Standard Time, amjmail@... writes:



                                                                                                                                                                As most know, my larger BP bullies the smaller one.  So much so that the small guy just seems to pass out on the gravel and let the big one beat on him.  He gets so tired he can’t even fight back or swim away.  I moved the big one to another tank but he seemed to be stressed after about a week, maybe the water quality but I will check that in a bit as it’s new.

                                                                                                                                                                Anyway, this didn’t happen when these guys had no place to hide. 






                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11031 From: kb1dva Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: pacu problems

                                                                                                                                                                I’m not sure if it’s raw or fungi looking. Forgive a novice. while I was out hubby transferred everyone to the new tank. I don’t know if that was the right thing to do…but it’s done. The pacu is hiding in the corner of the tank, on the bottom-listing a little I put food in and he didn’t touch it, he just let everyone else eat. This worries me a lot because I don’t know if it’s normal behavior. I’m fond of the big monster and don’t want anything to happen to him. Is he just freaked out? It makes me happy to see how much more room he has. Maybe he just needs to realize he doesn’t have to sit in the corner. Would it cause harm if I put both stress coat and a bit of salt in the tank, how much salt for 90 gallons. As I can afford it I plan on more gravel, lights, and more decorations. I want to thank everyone who has so kindly responded to my calls for help. Another thing on my list is a good aquarium book. I didn’t realize how expensive this can be.                       Emily

                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11032 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Bully Blood Parrot

                                                                                                                                                                So maybe if I leave all the plants and just take out the caves and drift wood.  I wonder if that would do it…

                                                                                                                                                                I really like watching them weave in and out of their caves.  It’s like they are on an underwater roller coaster or something.  They really enjoy them.  Wish there were a better solution.

                                                                                                                                                                My large BP also tosses around the plastic plants.  =)  They are different every morning!  That cracks me up.

                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                                                                Sent:
                                                                                                                                                                Thursday, May 05, 2005 11:02 AM
                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bully Blood Parrot

                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                By removing all the decorations, more or less having a bare tank with gravel in it should help with aggression. No place to run, no place to hide, no place to call your own.

                                                                                                                                                                People do this all the time with BIG cichlids.  My Oscar tank has 2 things in it. A rock wall/airstone big enough not to get knocked over, and a small plastic plant for the Oscars to throw around. 
                                                                                                                                                                There is still aggression but not as bad if they had territories to call there own.

                                                                                                                                                                The smaller BP should go to Isolation tank in the future if need be. The weaker or sicker fish is the one in need of special care. While in isolation feed him well, baby the snot out of it so it will regain some strength.


                                                                                                                                                                rob
                                                                                                                                                                Indiana


                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 5/5/2005 10:55:02 AM US Eastern Standard Time, amjmail@... writes:




                                                                                                                                                                As most know, my larger BP bullies the smaller one.  So much so that the small guy just seems to pass out on the gravel and let the big one beat on him.  He gets so tired he can’t even fight back or swim away.  I moved the big one to another tank but he seemed to be stressed after about a week, maybe the water quality but I will check that in a bit as it’s new.

                                                                                                                                                                Anyway, this didn’t happen when these guys had no place to hide. 







                                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11033 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: pacu problems
                                                                                                                                                                Just a few comments. A 90 gallon tank really isn't big enough for a
                                                                                                                                                                Pacu. I used to have one in my 150 gallon tank, but I gave him away
                                                                                                                                                                because he had outgrown it. Pacus will normally eat about anything
                                                                                                                                                                (including other fish), so if he's not eating, that's definitely a sign
                                                                                                                                                                of a problem.

                                                                                                                                                                Is there a particular reason you want more gravel? How much do you have
                                                                                                                                                                now? What kind of lighting do you have now? Also, the fish don't really
                                                                                                                                                                care what the "decorations" look like - you can just put in rocks and
                                                                                                                                                                cheap (small) plant pots and things like that if you're looking to
                                                                                                                                                                provide hiding places on a budget.

                                                                                                                                                                As for a "good aquarium book," I can't think of any for freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                aquaria. There are some good atlases, but as far as the "how to"
                                                                                                                                                                aspects, groups like this one are at least as good as any book I've
                                                                                                                                                                seen, and a lot cheaper. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                kb1dva wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                > I’m not sure if it’s raw or fungi looking. Forgive a novice. while I
                                                                                                                                                                > was out hubby transferred everyone to the new tank. I don’t know if
                                                                                                                                                                > that was the right thing to do…but it’s done. The pacu is hiding in
                                                                                                                                                                > the corner of the tank, on the bottom-listing a little I put food in
                                                                                                                                                                > and he didn’t touch it, he just let everyone else eat. This worries me
                                                                                                                                                                > a lot because I don’t know if it’s normal behavior. I’m fond of the
                                                                                                                                                                > big monster and don’t want anything to happen to him. Is he just
                                                                                                                                                                > freaked out? It makes me happy to see how much more room he has. Maybe
                                                                                                                                                                > he just needs to realize he doesn’t have to sit in the corner. Would
                                                                                                                                                                > it cause harm if I put both stress coat and a bit of salt in the tank,
                                                                                                                                                                > how much salt for 90 gallons. As I can afford it I plan on more
                                                                                                                                                                > gravel, lights, and more decorations. I want to thank everyone who has
                                                                                                                                                                > so kindly responded to my calls for help. Another thing on my list is
                                                                                                                                                                > a good aquarium book. I didn’t realize how expensive this can be. Emily
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                > *Yahoo! Groups Links*
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                                > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                                                                                                > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                                                > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11034 From: kb1dva Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: pacu problems
                                                                                                                                                                I have 50lbs of gravel it covers the bottom well but not deeply. I'm using
                                                                                                                                                                the old light and balancing it on the middle tank support. What should I do
                                                                                                                                                                about the pacu, other than keep an eye on him? I will go downstairs and see
                                                                                                                                                                if I can get a better pic of this mouth. What do you think about stress coat
                                                                                                                                                                and or salt Emily

                                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                Behalf Of Trevor Holyoak
                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 12:28 PM
                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pacu problems

                                                                                                                                                                Just a few comments. A 90 gallon tank really isn't big enough for a
                                                                                                                                                                Pacu. I used to have one in my 150 gallon tank, but I gave him away
                                                                                                                                                                because he had outgrown it. Pacus will normally eat about anything
                                                                                                                                                                (including other fish), so if he's not eating, that's definitely a sign
                                                                                                                                                                of a problem.

                                                                                                                                                                Is there a particular reason you want more gravel? How much do you have
                                                                                                                                                                now? What kind of lighting do you have now? Also, the fish don't really
                                                                                                                                                                care what the "decorations" look like - you can just put in rocks and
                                                                                                                                                                cheap (small) plant pots and things like that if you're looking to
                                                                                                                                                                provide hiding places on a budget.

                                                                                                                                                                As for a "good aquarium book," I can't think of any for freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                aquaria. There are some good atlases, but as far as the "how to"
                                                                                                                                                                aspects, groups like this one are at least as good as any book I've
                                                                                                                                                                seen, and a lot cheaper. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                kb1dva wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                > I'm not sure if it's raw or fungi looking. Forgive a novice. while I
                                                                                                                                                                > was out hubby transferred everyone to the new tank. I don't know if
                                                                                                                                                                > that was the right thing to do.but it's done. The pacu is hiding in
                                                                                                                                                                > the corner of the tank, on the bottom-listing a little I put food in
                                                                                                                                                                > and he didn't touch it, he just let everyone else eat. This worries me
                                                                                                                                                                > a lot because I don't know if it's normal behavior. I'm fond of the
                                                                                                                                                                > big monster and don't want anything to happen to him. Is he just
                                                                                                                                                                > freaked out? It makes me happy to see how much more room he has. Maybe
                                                                                                                                                                > he just needs to realize he doesn't have to sit in the corner. Would
                                                                                                                                                                > it cause harm if I put both stress coat and a bit of salt in the tank,
                                                                                                                                                                > how much salt for 90 gallons. As I can afford it I plan on more
                                                                                                                                                                > gravel, lights, and more decorations. I want to thank everyone who has
                                                                                                                                                                > so kindly responded to my calls for help. Another thing on my list is
                                                                                                                                                                > a good aquarium book. I didn't realize how expensive this can be. Emily
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                > *Yahoo! Groups Links*
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                                > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                                                                                                > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                                                > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                >



                                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11035 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: pacu problems
                                                                                                                                                                You should be fine with the gravel, unless there's a particular reason
                                                                                                                                                                you want it deep (are you using an undergravel filter?). You're fine
                                                                                                                                                                with the light you have, unless you want a new one for cosmetic reasons
                                                                                                                                                                (it sounds like the one you're using isn't long enough to go across the
                                                                                                                                                                whole tank?). The fish don't really care much about the light, as long
                                                                                                                                                                as there is some.

                                                                                                                                                                I haven't seen a picture of your Pacu (I've been in "digest" mode until
                                                                                                                                                                just recently), but you might try using some Melafix. For a tank that
                                                                                                                                                                size, it's most economical in the "pond" version. (If your local stores
                                                                                                                                                                don't have it in the bigger bottles, see if you can find the pond
                                                                                                                                                                version, which is concentrated.)

                                                                                                                                                                - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                kb1dva wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                > I have 50lbs of gravel it covers the bottom well but not deeply. I'm using
                                                                                                                                                                > the old light and balancing it on the middle tank support. What should
                                                                                                                                                                > I do
                                                                                                                                                                > about the pacu, other than keep an eye on him? I will go downstairs
                                                                                                                                                                > and see
                                                                                                                                                                > if I can get a better pic of this mouth. What do you think about
                                                                                                                                                                > stress coat
                                                                                                                                                                > and or salt Emily
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                > Behalf Of Trevor Holyoak
                                                                                                                                                                > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 12:28 PM
                                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pacu problems
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > Just a few comments. A 90 gallon tank really isn't big enough for a
                                                                                                                                                                > Pacu. I used to have one in my 150 gallon tank, but I gave him away
                                                                                                                                                                > because he had outgrown it. Pacus will normally eat about anything
                                                                                                                                                                > (including other fish), so if he's not eating, that's definitely a sign
                                                                                                                                                                > of a problem.
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > Is there a particular reason you want more gravel? How much do you have
                                                                                                                                                                > now? What kind of lighting do you have now? Also, the fish don't really
                                                                                                                                                                > care what the "decorations" look like - you can just put in rocks and
                                                                                                                                                                > cheap (small) plant pots and things like that if you're looking to
                                                                                                                                                                > provide hiding places on a budget.
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > As for a "good aquarium book," I can't think of any for freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                > aquaria. There are some good atlases, but as far as the "how to"
                                                                                                                                                                > aspects, groups like this one are at least as good as any book I've
                                                                                                                                                                > seen, and a lot cheaper. ;)
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                > > I'm not sure if it's raw or fungi looking. Forgive a novice. while I
                                                                                                                                                                > > was out hubby transferred everyone to the new tank. I don't know if
                                                                                                                                                                > > that was the right thing to do.but it's done. The pacu is hiding in
                                                                                                                                                                > > the corner of the tank, on the bottom-listing a little I put food in
                                                                                                                                                                > > and he didn't touch it, he just let everyone else eat. This worries me
                                                                                                                                                                > > a lot because I don't know if it's normal behavior. I'm fond of the
                                                                                                                                                                > > big monster and don't want anything to happen to him. Is he just
                                                                                                                                                                > > freaked out? It makes me happy to see how much more room he has. Maybe
                                                                                                                                                                > > he just needs to realize he doesn't have to sit in the corner. Would
                                                                                                                                                                > > it cause harm if I put both stress coat and a bit of salt in the tank,
                                                                                                                                                                > > how much salt for 90 gallons. As I can afford it I plan on more
                                                                                                                                                                > > gravel, lights, and more decorations. I want to thank everyone who has
                                                                                                                                                                > > so kindly responded to my calls for help. Another thing on my list is
                                                                                                                                                                > > a good aquarium book. I didn't realize how expensive this can be. Emily
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
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                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11036 From: kb1dva Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Fish id
                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                  Are these Midas or blood parrots?, the guy who gave them to me gave me a lot
                                                                                                                                                                  of erroneous info. That is what ive been told is a pike ciclid in back-
                                                                                                                                                                  playing ghost Emily

                                                                                                                                                                  P.s. Hopefully all this crazyness will sort itself out, and ill be quiet for
                                                                                                                                                                  a while.I still have to learn about Ph.
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 11037 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: pacu problems
                                                                                                                                                                  That last sentence (the one in parentheses) was supposed to replace the
                                                                                                                                                                  one previous to it. :)

                                                                                                                                                                  Anyway, I've found you can buy many of the chemicals in the pond size to
                                                                                                                                                                  save money. That works well for me, since my biggest tank is 150 gal.,
                                                                                                                                                                  and I'm supposed to limit my fish spending to $25 a month. :)

                                                                                                                                                                  - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                  Trevor Holyoak wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                  > For a tank that size, it's most economical in the "pond" version. (If
                                                                                                                                                                  > your local stores don't have it in the bigger bottles, see if you can
                                                                                                                                                                  > find the pond version, which is concentrated.)
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 11038 From: kb1dva Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                    Here's a photo that might help.he seems to be moving up in the tank. He was
                                                                                                                                                                    in a 20 long, so this must seem like the Hilton. Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                    whole thing was given away.i thought they would stop growing when the didn't
                                                                                                                                                                    have enough room. Plants are good hiding places the pike pacu love his rock
                                                                                                                                                                    with the hole in it.but back to what can I do for him Emily
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11039 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Fish id
                                                                                                                                                                    Those are definitely blood parrots. They're probably (the breeders
                                                                                                                                                                    apparently won't say) a cross between a Midas and a Severum.

                                                                                                                                                                    - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                    kb1dva wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > Are these Midas or blood parrots?, the guy who gave them to me gave me
                                                                                                                                                                    > a lot
                                                                                                                                                                    > of erroneous info. That is what ive been told is a pike ciclid in back-
                                                                                                                                                                    > playing ghost Emily
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > P.s. Hopefully all this crazyness will sort itself out, and ill be
                                                                                                                                                                    > quiet for
                                                                                                                                                                    > a while.I still have to learn about Ph.
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                    > .
                                                                                                                                                                    > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                    > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                    > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                    > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11040 From: kb1dva Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: tank decorations

                                                                                                                                                                    I know the fish don’t care except wanting a place to hide. But the tank is a big part of the living room; I just want them to be happy and healthy.

                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11041 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: tank decorations
                                                                                                                                                                    OK, that's certainly understandable. :) There are some really nice
                                                                                                                                                                    decorations out there, too - there are a couple I've been tempted to
                                                                                                                                                                    buy, in fact, until I looked at the price tags. :) Seriously, though, I
                                                                                                                                                                    just wanted to make sure you knew it wasn't necessary to spend a lot of
                                                                                                                                                                    money.

                                                                                                                                                                    - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                    kb1dva wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    > I know the fish don’t care except wanting a place to hide. But the
                                                                                                                                                                    > tank is a big part of the living room; I just want them to be happy
                                                                                                                                                                    > and healthy.
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11042 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: pacu problems
                                                                                                                                                                    stress coat yea, salt no.......

                                                                                                                                                                    my opinion
                                                                                                                                                                    rob

                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 5/5/2005 11:44:11 AM US Eastern Standard Time, vze3pd7a@... writes:



                                                                                                                                                                    I have 50lbs of gravel it covers the bottom well but not deeply. I'm using
                                                                                                                                                                    the old light and balancing it on the middle tank support. What should I do
                                                                                                                                                                    about the pacu, other than keep an eye on him? I will go downstairs and see
                                                                                                                                                                    if I can get a better pic of this mouth. What do you think about stress coat
                                                                                                                                                                    and or salt  Emily


                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11043 From: Ron Hansen Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Fish id
                                                                                                                                                                    The orange one is a blood parrot. The yellow one is some kind of parrot,
                                                                                                                                                                    possibly a "jellybean" (essentially the same fish as a blood parrot). I
                                                                                                                                                                    can't tell about the third one from this picture.


                                                                                                                                                                    kb1dva said:
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > Are these Midas or blood parrots?, the guy who gave them to me gave me a
                                                                                                                                                                    > lot
                                                                                                                                                                    > of erroneous info. That is what ive been told is a pike ciclid in back-
                                                                                                                                                                    > playing ghost Emily
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > P.s. Hopefully all this crazyness will sort itself out, and ill be quiet
                                                                                                                                                                    > for
                                                                                                                                                                    > a while.I still have to learn about Ph.
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                    > .
                                                                                                                                                                    > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                    > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                    > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                    > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11044 From: Robert Hickey Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Life but not as We know it
                                                                                                                                                                    Hiya all me again
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    A friend just rang Me with  a problem ,
                                                                                                                                                                    He has two african clawed frogs and a Bristlnose catfish ( introduced last week to kill off the algae problem)
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    He just had a look at his tank and it seems alive, there Are many really small organisms some worm like some almost snail like moving around in his tank, they seem to be feeding on the algea he says one has legs with a humpered back ( snail like)?
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    Any ideas good or bad?
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    Irish stumped Rob
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    Regards
                                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey | Networks Engineer Citywest Business Park | BT | Tel: +353
                                                                                                                                                                    (0)1 43258749
                                                                                                                                                                    | Mob: +353 (0)86 8061840 | E: robert.hickey@... | www.btireland.ie
                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                    From: Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 4:47 PM
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need a small filter

                                                                                                                                                                    I hate air pumps. I don't use them at all. You can get a power filter
                                                                                                                                                                    for $12.99 or less, and it's a lot less hassle and noise. Once the
                                                                                                                                                                    tank's established, most of the bacteria isn't in the filter anyway,
                                                                                                                                                                    so a power outage isn't going to be a big deal.

                                                                                                                                                                    - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, FortWayneFish@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > I also agree a spongfilter and airpump...................
                                                                                                                                                                    > get a sponge rated bigger then the 15 gallons, makes it nice when those
                                                                                                                                                                    > unexpected power outages happen...
                                                                                                                                                                    > spone filter does not need power or air supply to keep working.. or
                                                                                                                                                                    you could
                                                                                                                                                                    > opt for a box filter but thse require airflow to keep working..

                                                                                                                                                                    >  Hydro-Sponge Filters  
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/FILTRATION/Hydro-Sponge_Filters/hydro-sponge_filters.html
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >  Box Filters 
                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/FILTRATION/Box_Filters/box_filters.html
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > rob
                                                                                                                                                                    > indiana




                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                    .
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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11045 From: Rachel Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: goldfish waste
                                                                                                                                                                    this sounds strange to me but, i was wondering if anyone knew about
                                                                                                                                                                    this. i was lookin at my goldfish and i saw somethin shiney like
                                                                                                                                                                    silvery so i looked closer and his wastes... are silvery?!?! what. yes
                                                                                                                                                                    i know... its coming from him... so thats gotta be... but why? whats
                                                                                                                                                                    going on?
                                                                                                                                                                    o_O

                                                                                                                                                                    Rachel
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11046 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: pacu problems
                                                                                                                                                                    It looks like you fish hit his face pretty good, possibly on a decoration.
                                                                                                                                                                    Give him time, clean water, and make sure it doesn't get effected and he should heal..  It will take some time though...
                                                                                                                                                                    90 gallons is a Big Tank to treat, It would probally have been best to move all the fish EXCEPT the BP from the 20 and used the 20 as a hospital tank..
                                                                                                                                                                    20 gallons is easier to treat then 90 gallons.
                                                                                                                                                                    Pond strength meds are Greatjust remember they are POND strength  usually a lot stronger 2x or more then Aquarium strength.. 

                                                                                                                                                                    rob
                                                                                                                                                                    Indiana


                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 5/5/2005 1:05:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time, FortWayneFish@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                    I have 50lbs of gravel it covers the bottom well but not deeply. I'm using
                                                                                                                                                                    the old light and balancing it on the middle tank support. What should I do
                                                                                                                                                                    about the pacu, other than keep an eye on him? I will go downstairs and see
                                                                                                                                                                    if I can get a better pic of this mouth. What do you think about stress coat
                                                                                                                                                                    and or salt  Emily


                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11047 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Life but not as We know it
                                                                                                                                                                    Irish Rob,

                                                                                                                                                                    Its hard to say with that desription but it probally is
                                                                                                                                                                    Planaria. ( pictures:
                                                                                                                                                                    http://kamakura.cool.ne.jp/shippokudo/c.planaria.jpg

                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.biosci.msu.edu/courses/bs110Lab/lab_one/images/planaria1.jpg )


                                                                                                                                                                    Since you say many I'm thinking that is what this would be... if it was 1 or 2  in a bare bottom tank I would have went else where( anchor worms)


                                                                                                                                                                    Its usually brung on by excess fish food. To get rid of them do 20% waterchanges with substrate vaccuming for 4 days..
                                                                                                                                                                    this will get your gravel really clean, then remove some of the gravel so its only about 1/4 -1/2 inch deep..  I'm bad at conversions i think around (75mm)

                                                                                                                                                                    Vaccum again with a 20% waterchange.
                                                                                                                                                                    Raise the temperature upwards of 80*F i think its about ( 23* C )
                                                                                                                                                                    add 1 drop per gallon of Quick Cure I'd use 1 drop for every 2 gallons because of the frogs.

                                                                                                                                                                    Repeat waterchanges and Quick cure every other day , for 4 treatments.

                                                                                                                                                                    this should get rid of them...

                                                                                                                                                                    Ok I know there is going to be a LOT of people telling me I'm full of it, that is excessive. Each has there own opinion and own experiences.

                                                                                                                                                                    Aquatic frogs are scaleless and very thin skinned and don't like salt, so i chose to use Quick Cure.


                                                                                                                                                                    Rob
                                                                                                                                                                    Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                    USA































                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 5/5/2005 1:14:41 PM US Eastern Standard Time, rhickey@... writes:



                                                                                                                                                                    Hiya all me again


                                                                                                                                                                    A friend just rang Me with  a problem ,
                                                                                                                                                                    He has two african clawed frogs and a Bristlnose catfish ( introduced last week to kill off the algae problem)

                                                                                                                                                                    He just had a look at his tank and it seems alive, there Are many really small organisms some worm like some almost snail like moving around in his tank, they seem to be feeding on the algea he says one has legs with a humpered back ( snail like)?

                                                                                                                                                                    Any ideas good or bad?

                                                                                                                                                                    Irish stumped Rob


                                                                                                                                                                    Regards
                                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey





                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11048 From: Ron Hansen Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Help!
                                                                                                                                                                    Emily,

                                                                                                                                                                    I finally found this first post in the thread.

                                                                                                                                                                    Don't worry about his nose/mouth. Mine was exactly like that when I
                                                                                                                                                                    adopted him from the LFS (they were about to euthenize him because he was
                                                                                                                                                                    already about 10" long).

                                                                                                                                                                    He healed up in about 2-3 weeks and is fine now.




                                                                                                                                                                    kb1dva said:
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > I know there is something wrong with this pacu's mouth, it never looked
                                                                                                                                                                    > like
                                                                                                                                                                    > that before what should I do Emily
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11049 From: Rosaholic Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                    Define what you mean by "unnatural".  I'm growing plants with CO2, and so far the plants are doing very well.  I'm growing some beautiful Amazon swords with burgundy red leaves that have come along very nicely since I added the CO2, and normally they were dying on me.  I love my CO2 system! 
                                                                                                                                                                    --
                                                                                                                                                                    Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                                                                    Alan
                                                                                                                                                                    --
                                                                                                                                                                    Chandler, Arizona
                                                                                                                                                                    Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                                                                    ----
                                                                                                                                                                    *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                                                                                                                    *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
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                                                                                                                                                                    Nimish Mathur wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    Excel is great. I agree. I am myself drifting towards no CO2 injection as I found another way to help plants get CO2 J. This is very ironic but even more strangely it works and is different from anything else that has been assumed.

                                                                                                                                                                    Creating lot of surface agitation helps dissolve atmospheric CO2 in the water. The amount of this CO2 varies on a lot of factors like Temperature, PH, KH mainly. I have a high light tank with no CO2 injection and the plants are doing absolutely great. Needless to say that with high surface agitation, CO2 produced by fish and bacteria is lost but there is a constant small supply of CO2.

                                                                                                                                                                    If you want a moderate growth lush planted tank, try this way and see if it works for you. I have yet to come across someone who has even tried this method. With CO2 injection, plants grow a bit faster but unnatural.

                                                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                                                    Ps: I know this defies Diana Walstad’s theory but …. Every theory can be challenged sometimes???

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: 05 May 2005 05:32
                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                        I don't like CO2 injection because, except where there are underwater gas springs, it isn't natural.  The natural way to give plants CO2 is to add more fish (2 inches per gallon of small fish like tetras, rasboras, and danios) and carbon sources (flourish excel) if you need them.  It works for me, but I don't have fancy plants.  I prefer plants that live in a wide range of conditions.  If you are going to have fancy plants, somebody with experience with them will have to help you.  I will say this, if I don't add excel, the plants start turning yellow in about 2 weeks, and get bad in one month.  I add it about twice a week at one cap doses.  Maybe I should be a seachem salesman? :)

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.

                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, Ray, Steve, anybody what do you think?

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    There are "systems" which include a gas pressures, needle valve, bubble counter, solinoid. 

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    Is CO2 worth the money to make the plants grow better?

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    =Nick

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                     

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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11050 From: Rosaholic Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Plants CO2?


                                                                                                                                                                    Yes

                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Nicolas Munro
                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: 05 May 2005 03:44
                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    Is CO2 worth the money to make the plants grow better?

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    =Nick



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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11051 From: Rosaholic Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Plants CO2
                                                                                                                                                                    Nicolas,

                                                                                                                                                                    Your asking all the right questions. It shows your doing your
                                                                                                                                                                    research. This is why I went with a CO2 tank. I didn't want to risk
                                                                                                                                                                    damage to the house. I didn't want to fuss with mixing every two
                                                                                                                                                                    weeks. I didn't want to have to worry about it. The CO2 tanks have
                                                                                                                                                                    been the way to go for me. The fish are healthy. The plants are
                                                                                                                                                                    looking incredible. I wouldn't trade the before and after differences
                                                                                                                                                                    for the world. I have a 20lb CO2 tank. At the rate I'm going, it's
                                                                                                                                                                    only going to need filled about once a year. Low maintenance. I like that!

                                                                                                                                                                    --
                                                                                                                                                                    Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                                                                    Alan
                                                                                                                                                                    --
                                                                                                                                                                    Chandler, Arizona
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                                                                                                                                                                    Nicolas J. Munro wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    >One website said:
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >The yeast method can cause serious damage to the walls of your house if
                                                                                                                                                                    >not vented.
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >Is this a common place occurance or just an extream case?
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                    >.
                                                                                                                                                                    >Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11052 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: pacu problems
                                                                                                                                                                    Are you saying that they're extra strength beyond just being
                                                                                                                                                                    concentrated? It appears that the aquarium strength bottles just have
                                                                                                                                                                    more water in them. If you follow the directions, and realize it's
                                                                                                                                                                    concentrated (so you put in less than you would of the equivalent in the
                                                                                                                                                                    aquarium-strength version), it should turn out the same, from my way of
                                                                                                                                                                    thinking. I haven't had any problems doing this (yet). But if that's not
                                                                                                                                                                    right, please let me know!

                                                                                                                                                                    - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                    FortWayneFish@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    > Pond strength meds are Greatjust remember they are POND strength
                                                                                                                                                                    > usually a lot stronger 2x or more then Aquarium strength..
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > rob
                                                                                                                                                                    > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11053 From: Rosaholic Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Plants CO2
                                                                                                                                                                    I remember those.  but I could never find a kit that would work well with my bigger tanks.  It seemed like the highest gallons it went to was 20 or 30 if I remember correctly.

                                                                                                                                                                    --
                                                                                                                                                                    Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                                                                    Alan
                                                                                                                                                                    --
                                                                                                                                                                    Chandler, Arizona
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                                                                                                                                                                    Trevor wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    It sounds like an extreme case. I'm using the yeast method in my
                                                                                                                                                                    office at work, and I don't think I'd dare if I knew it were a
                                                                                                                                                                    commonplace occurrence. :)
                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                    I'm actually using the Hagen/Nutrafin Natural Plant System. It comes
                                                                                                                                                                    with a plastic canister, "CO2 resistant" tubing, and a bubble
                                                                                                                                                                    counter/diffuser. It also comes with "activator" and "stabilizer"
                                                                                                                                                                    packets, which you combine with sugar and water that you provide. Of
                                                                                                                                                                    course, the "activator" and "stabilizer" is just yeast and baking
                                                                                                                                                                    soda, so when I ran out of packets I didn't bother to buy more. The
                                                                                                                                                                    packets just contained 1/4 teaspoon of each.
                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                    The interesting thing is that I'm lazy enough that I don't get around
                                                                                                                                                                    to restarting the fermentation process for sometimes months after the
                                                                                                                                                                    bubbles have stopped coming out. Because of that, I've noticed that it
                                                                                                                                                                    doesn't seem to make any visible difference on the plants. I only keep
                                                                                                                                                                    using it so I don't feel foolish for buying it. :D Plus, it's kind of
                                                                                                                                                                    fun to watch the bubbles.
                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                    The 10 gallon tank I'm using it in has flourite for the substrate, 2
                                                                                                                                                                    15 watt flourescent light strips, a couple of cherry barbs, a siamese
                                                                                                                                                                    algae eater, and a bunch of Endlers Livebearers. Unfortunately, I
                                                                                                                                                                    don't remember right offhand what kinds of plants I currently have in
                                                                                                                                                                    there.
                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                    - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas J. Munro" <nmunro@q...>
                                                                                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                                    One website said:
                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                    The yeast method can cause serious damage to the walls of your house if 
                                                                                                                                                                    not vented.
                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                    Is this a common place occurance or just an extream case?
                                                                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                    
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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11054 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: pacu problems
                                                                                                                                                                    Most Pacus I've seen have scars. It seems to be pretty much unavoidable
                                                                                                                                                                    when keep them in an aquarium, due to their large size and their fast speed.

                                                                                                                                                                    - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                    FortWayneFish@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    > It looks like you fish hit his face pretty good, possibly on a decoration.
                                                                                                                                                                    > Give him time, clean water, and make sure it doesn't get effected and
                                                                                                                                                                    > he should heal.. It will take some time though...
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11055 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                    Love the reply Alan..

                                                                                                                                                                    Now my reply: In the right situation in the right tank Co2 is very much so worth the money. But without adequate lighting , and substrate and or suppliments  Co2 is worthless.

                                                                                                                                                                    Homemade Co2 containers can be made for under $5. 
                                                                                                                                                                    Give it a try. There are a lot of articles for DIY co2 do a google.com or dogpile.com  search for DIY Co2
                                                                                                                                                                    I like chuck gadd's article because it has pictures ( typical man)
                                                                                                                                                                    A DIY CO2 system
                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_co2rig.htm


                                                                                                                                                                    rob
                                                                                                                                                                    Indiana


                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 5/5/2005 1:51:08 PM US Eastern Standard Time, rosaholic@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                    Yes


                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11056 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: pacu problems
                                                                                                                                                                    pond strength is a stronger concentrate.

                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 5/5/2005 1:59:20 PM US Eastern Standard Time, trevor@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                    Are you saying that they're extra strength beyond just being
                                                                                                                                                                    concentrated? It appears that the aquarium strength bottles just have
                                                                                                                                                                    more water in them. If you follow the directions, and realize it's
                                                                                                                                                                    concentrated (so you put in less than you would of the equivalent in the
                                                                                                                                                                    aquarium-strength version), it should turn out the same, from my way of
                                                                                                                                                                    thinking. I haven't had any problems doing this (yet). But if that's not
                                                                                                                                                                    right, please let me know!


                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11057 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: coffee cups in tanks?
                                                                                                                                                                    i have those in 2 of my betta tanks & they love em.

                                                                                                                                                                    --- wendie <wendieo@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    > I use small colored or clear glass votives that I find in Wal-mart or
                                                                                                                                                                    > someplace like that.
                                                                                                                                                                    > Wendie
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                    > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]On
                                                                                                                                                                    > Behalf Of Deenerz@...
                                                                                                                                                                    > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 5:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                                    > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] coffee cups in tanks?
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > In a message dated 5/3/2005 2:18:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                    > fishgoddess@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                    > One more question:
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > Would it be OK to put a coffee cup in the tank as a hiding spot? Just
                                                                                                                                                                    > your
                                                                                                                                                                    > > everyday run-of-the-mill mug. Like those from Starbucks.
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > You know, I don't think I'd take the risk. The cup could have a
                                                                                                                                                                    > soluble paint that might leech into the tank. Try those little clay
                                                                                                                                                                    > pots for plants. Those work very well with no risk and you can buy
                                                                                                                                                                    > them at any size.
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > Yes, the terra cotta pots are really inexpensive. They make good caves,
                                                                                                                                                                    > and if you break one you are not out very much money. I did use a couple
                                                                                                                                                                    > coffee mugs recently but now I think they are gonna to come outof the tanks
                                                                                                                                                                    > real quick.
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > If you are near a "Michaels" arts and craft store they have them in really
                                                                                                                                                                    > small sizes. Some as small as an inch, which may be a bit too small, but
                                                                                                                                                                    > the 2 and 3 inch pots can work for shell dwllers.
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > Mike
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                    > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                    > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                                                    I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11058 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                                    Alan,

                                                                                                                                                                    Term “unnatural” is most evident in stem plants where the distance between the nodes of leaves is much greater due to over increased speed of growth. Most evident in plants like Limnophilla, cabomba and sometimes in red myriophyllum. I agree that CO2 does increase the growth of the plants but they are not designed by nature to grow at that pace. Echinodorous species really do not show the irregular behavior of growth as seen in stem plants.

                                                                                                                                                                    What I was really stressing was that you can have a high light high nutrient planted tank with very fast plant growth without really the need to push CO2. I myself have a pressurized bioplast CO2 sitting on the shelf with full cylinders and a proper power driven diffuser but in an odd experiment when I switched off this system and resorted to natural surface agitation method. I still got superb plant growth but a more condensed natural growth. Plants looking more natural and much better then the way they were looking when I was pushing CO2.

                                                                                                                                                                    I need someone else who has spare time and less cash to try this thing out but it is something that has always been ignored or snubbed off.. human nature! I guess.

                                                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Rosaholic
                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: 05 May 2005 19:48
                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    Define what you mean by "unnatural".  I'm growing plants with CO2, and so far the plants are doing very well.  I'm growing some beautiful Amazon swords with burgundy red leaves that have come along very nicely since I added the CO2, and normally they were dying on me.  I love my CO2 system! 
                                                                                                                                                                    --
                                                                                                                                                                    Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                                                                    Alan
                                                                                                                                                                    --
                                                                                                                                                                    Chandler , Arizona
                                                                                                                                                                    Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.GardenersCorner.com
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                                                                                                                                                                    *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com.
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                                                                                                                                                                    *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your address.
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                                                                                                                                                                    Nimish Mathur wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    Excel is great. I agree. I am myself drifting towards no CO2 injection as I found another way to help plants get CO2 J. This is very ironic but even more strangely it works and is different from anything else that has been assumed.

                                                                                                                                                                    Creating lot of surface agitation helps dissolve atmospheric CO2 in the water. The amount of this CO2 varies on a lot of factors like Temperature, PH, KH mainly. I have a high light tank with no CO2 injection and the plants are doing absolutely great. Needless to say that with high surface agitation, CO2 produced by fish and bacteria is lost but there is a constant small supply of CO2.

                                                                                                                                                                    If you want a moderate growth lush planted tank, try this way and see if it works for you. I have yet to come across someone who has even tried this method. With CO2 injection, plants grow a bit faster but unnatural.

                                                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                                                    Ps: I know this defies Diana Walstad’s theory but …. Every theory can be challenged sometimes???

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: 05 May 2005 05:32
                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                        I don't like CO2 injection because, except where there are underwater gas springs, it isn't natural.  The natural way to give plants CO2 is to add more fish (2 inches per gallon of small fish like tetras, rasboras, and danios) and carbon sources (flourish excel) if you need them.  It works for me, but I don't have fancy plants.  I prefer plants that live in a wide range of conditions.  If you are going to have fancy plants, somebody with experience with them will have to help you.  I will say this, if I don't add excel, the plants start turning yellow in about 2 weeks, and get bad in one month.  I add it about twice a week at one cap doses.  Maybe I should be a seachem salesman? :)

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.

                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, Ray, Steve, anybody what do you think?

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    There are "systems" which include a gas pressures, needle valve, bubble counter, solinoid. 

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    Is CO2 worth the money to make the plants grow better?

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    =Nick

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

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                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11059 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Fish id
                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 5/5/2005 10:01:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, vze3pd7a@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                    That is what ive been told is a pike ciclid in back-
                                                                                                                                                                    playing ghost  Emily
                                                                                                                                                                    It could be a pike, a side shot would help identify it.
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    Mike
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11060 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Fish id
                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 5/5/2005 10:01:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, vze3pd7a@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                    P.s. Hopefully all this crazyness will sort itself out, and ill be quiet for
                                                                                                                                                                    a while.I still have to learn about Ph.   
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    Learn about Ph but don't play around with it.  Fish usually do better if they have a consistant Ph level, if you start playing around trying to lower or raise it you might get into trouble.  Sudden Ph shifts can be very hard on fish.
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    I thought I needed to lower my Ph when I got into community fish, my first tank, and I ended losing fish.  Once I stopped playing with it my fish lived a lot longer.
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    Mike
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11061 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Life but not as We know it
                                                                                                                                                                        Just to be the one that disagrees, I would not advise using toxic chemicals to remove something that isn't harmful to the fish.  That is like tearing out all the drywall in a house to fix a spot on the wall behind a couch.  Other than that, I can't disagree with water changes and lower feedings.  The thing is that if they are harmless planaria, they will be eaten by fish and frogs.
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                    Ok I know there is going to be a LOT of people telling me I'm full of it, that is excessive. Each has there own opinion and own experiences. Aquatic frogs are scaleless and very thin skinned and don't like salt, so i chose to use Quick Cure.
                                                                                                                                                                    Rob
                                                                                                                                                                    Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                    USA
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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11062 From: wendie Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: coffee cups in tanks?
                                                                                                                                                                    LOL  I look on the bright side of them.... 44 cents!!!
                                                                                                                                                                    Wendie
                                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 3:55 PM
                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] coffee cups in tanks?

                                                                                                                                                                    i have those in 2 of my betta tanks & they love em.

                                                                                                                                                                    --- wendie <wendieo@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    > I use small colored or clear glass votives that I find in Wal-mart or
                                                                                                                                                                    > someplace like that.
                                                                                                                                                                    > Wendie
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >   -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                    >   From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]On
                                                                                                                                                                    > Behalf Of Deenerz@...
                                                                                                                                                                    >   Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 5:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                                    >   To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                    >   Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] coffee cups in tanks?
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >   In a message dated 5/3/2005 2:18:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                    > fishgoddess@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                    >     One more question:
                                                                                                                                                                    >     >
                                                                                                                                                                    >     > Would it be OK to put a coffee cup in the tank as a hiding spot?  Just
                                                                                                                                                                    > your
                                                                                                                                                                    >     > everyday run-of-the-mill mug.  Like those from Starbucks.
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >     You know, I don't think I'd take the risk. The cup could have a
                                                                                                                                                                    >     soluble paint that might leech into the tank. Try those little clay
                                                                                                                                                                    >     pots for plants. Those work very well with no risk and you can buy
                                                                                                                                                                    >     them at any size.
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >   Yes, the terra cotta pots are really inexpensive.  They make good caves,
                                                                                                                                                                    > and if you break one you are not out very much money.  I did use a couple
                                                                                                                                                                    > coffee mugs recently but now I think they are gonna to come outof the tanks
                                                                                                                                                                    > real quick.
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >   If you are near a "Michaels" arts and craft store they have them in really
                                                                                                                                                                    > small sizes.  Some as small as an inch, which may be a bit too small, but
                                                                                                                                                                    > the 2 and 3 inch pots can work for shell dwllers.
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >   Mike
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                    I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!



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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11063 From: Nan Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                    DIY?  Build it at home type? How do you go about that? 
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    Nan

                                                                                                                                                                    Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    For bigger tanks, those work well for a lot of people. For smaller
                                                                                                                                                                    tanks, DIY systems work (using yeast, sugar, water). It also depends on
                                                                                                                                                                    the plants kept, the lighting, and the other nutrients that are made
                                                                                                                                                                    available.

                                                                                                                                                                    - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                    Nicolas Munro wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    > Patrick, Ray, Steve, anybody what do you think?

                                                                                                                                                                    > There are "systems" which include a gas pressures, needle valve,
                                                                                                                                                                    > bubble counter, solinoid.


                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >     ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                    >     *From:* Nicolas Munro <mailto:nmunro@...>
                                                                                                                                                                    >     *To:* AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                    >     <mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                    >     *Sent:* Thursday, May 05, 2005 12:44 PM
                                                                                                                                                                    >     *Subject:* [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >     
                                                                                                                                                                    >     Is CO2 worth the money to make the plants grow better?
                                                                                                                                                                    >     
                                                                                                                                                                    >     =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11064 From: kb1dva Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: pace update

                                                                                                                                                                    He? Seems to be acting more normally, he is even swimming at the top of the tank. And not acting as freaked out. I will worry until I see him eat, as somebody said pacus will eat anything. I’m keeping my fingers crossed. Again thanks to all that helped me through this traumatic experience. now if training the puppy could be as easy              Emily

                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11065 From: Nan Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                    Nim,
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    What do you need tried out?  I got confused.
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    Nan

                                                                                                                                                                    Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    Alan,

                                                                                                                                                                    Term �unnatural� is most evident in stem plants where the distance between the nodes of leaves is much greater due to over increased speed of growth. Most evident in plants like Limnophilla, cabomba and sometimes in red myriophyllum. I agree that CO2 does increase the growth of the plants but they are not designed by nature to grow at that pace. Echinodorous species really do not show the irregular behavior of growth as seen in stem plants.

                                                                                                                                                                    What I was really stressing was that you can have a high light high nutrient planted tank with very fast plant growth without really the need to push CO2. I myself have a pressurized bioplast CO2 sitting on the shelf with full cylinders and a proper power driven diffuser but in an odd experiment when I switched off this system and resorted to natural surface agitation method. I still got superb plant growth but a more condensed natural growth. Plants looking more natural and much better then the way they were looking when I was pushing CO2.

                                                                                                                                                                    I need someone else who has spare time and less cash to try this thing out but it is something that has always been ignored or snubbed off.. human nature! I guess.

                                                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Rosaholic
                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: 05 May 2005 19:48
                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    Define what you mean by "unnatural".  I'm growing plants with CO2, and so far the plants are doing very well.  I'm growing some beautiful Amazon swords with burgundy red leaves that have come along very nicely since I added the CO2, and normally they were dying on me.  I love my CO2 system! 
                                                                                                                                                                    --
                                                                                                                                                                    Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                                                                    Alan
                                                                                                                                                                    --
                                                                                                                                                                    Chandler , Arizona
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                                                                                                                                                                    Nimish Mathur wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    Excel is great. I agree. I am myself drifting towards no CO2 injection as I found another way to help plants get CO2 J. This is very ironic but even more strangely it works and is different from anything else that has been assumed.

                                                                                                                                                                    Creating lot of surface agitation helps dissolve atmospheric CO2 in the water. The amount of this CO2 varies on a lot of factors like Temperature, PH, KH mainly. I have a high light tank with no CO2 injection and the plants are doing absolutely great. Needless to say that with high surface agitation, CO2 produced by fish and bacteria is lost but there is a constant small supply of CO2.

                                                                                                                                                                    If you want a moderate growth lush planted tank, try this way and see if it works for you. I have yet to come across someone who has even tried this method. With CO2 injection, plants grow a bit faster but unnatural.

                                                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                                                    Ps: I know this defies Diana Walstad�s theory but �. Every theory can be challenged sometimes???

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: 05 May 2005 05:32
                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                        I don't like CO2 injection because, except where there are underwater gas springs, it isn't natural.  The natural way to give plants CO2 is to add more fish (2 inches per gallon of small fish like tetras, rasboras, and danios) and carbon sources (flourish excel) if you need them.  It works for me, but I don't have fancy plants.  I prefer plants that live in a wide range of conditions.  If you are going to have fancy plants, somebody with experience with them will have to help you.  I will say this, if I don't add excel, the plants start turning yellow in about 2 weeks, and get bad in one month.  I add it about twice a week at one cap doses.  Maybe I should be a seachem salesman? :)

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.

                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, Ray, Steve, anybody what do you think?

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    There are "systems" which include a gas pressures, needle valve, bubble counter, solinoid. 

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    Is CO2 worth the money to make the plants grow better?

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    =Nick

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                     

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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11066 From: paul helms Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: New Hobbyist - Salt Water Setup Question
                                                                                                                                                                    you need 3-5 watts per gallon for most corals, and 2-3
                                                                                                                                                                    watts per gallon for pollyps and mushrooms
                                                                                                                                                                    --- bethym99 <bmetcalf@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    > Well, it's a new to me tank. However, it has been in
                                                                                                                                                                    > use as a marine
                                                                                                                                                                    > tank for about a year. It has a pretty good amount
                                                                                                                                                                    > of live sand in
                                                                                                                                                                    > the base of it which the owner has kept things
                                                                                                                                                                    > running so it stays
                                                                                                                                                                    > alive. The ecosystem on the back has some
                                                                                                                                                                    > livesand/liverock in it.
                                                                                                                                                                    > Theoretically, I'll have some pretty good bacterial
                                                                                                                                                                    > colonies and
                                                                                                                                                                    > avoid a long cycle time. The lighting has two
                                                                                                                                                                    > florescent bulbs and
                                                                                                                                                                    > two of the 'blue light' bulbs as well as 3 'moon
                                                                                                                                                                    > lights'? Sorry, I
                                                                                                                                                                    > can't remember the technical name for it. -- does
                                                                                                                                                                    > that help?
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > Appreciate the feedback, I can't wait to get it here
                                                                                                                                                                    > and setup. Once
                                                                                                                                                                    > we get the back painted we'll be ready to move it in
                                                                                                                                                                    > :-)
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Trevor Holyoak
                                                                                                                                                                    > <trevor@h...>
                                                                                                                                                                    > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > > Is this an already established tank, or is it a
                                                                                                                                                                    > new kit? If it's
                                                                                                                                                                    > already
                                                                                                                                                                    > > been going as-is, you can make changes as you go
                                                                                                                                                                    > if you decide you
                                                                                                                                                                    > want
                                                                                                                                                                    > > to. If I were setting up a new tank though, there
                                                                                                                                                                    > are a few things
                                                                                                                                                                    > I
                                                                                                                                                                    > > would do differently (hence the suggestions I
                                                                                                                                                                    > made).
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > Basically, all you need for a successful tank with
                                                                                                                                                                    > just fish is
                                                                                                                                                                    > live
                                                                                                                                                                    > > rock, sea salt, water, and power heads. A protein
                                                                                                                                                                    > skimmer is also
                                                                                                                                                                    > very
                                                                                                                                                                    > > helpful. If you want to do corals and stuff then
                                                                                                                                                                    > you also need
                                                                                                                                                                    > some
                                                                                                                                                                    > > pretty good lighting.
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > bethym99 wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Thanks for the book recommendation, its on
                                                                                                                                                                    > order! :)
                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Would you mind elaborating on what I don't need
                                                                                                                                                                    > and what you'd
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > replace? I will be setting it up as is to start
                                                                                                                                                                    > with... and then
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > modifying as time/$ permit. It will have 4bags
                                                                                                                                                                    > of live sand in
                                                                                                                                                                    > it...
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > and I'll be purchasing a snall amount of live
                                                                                                                                                                    > rock and quite a
                                                                                                                                                                    > bit
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > of coral bone to start.
                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Thanks! :-)
                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Trevor"
                                                                                                                                                                    > <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > There are a few things in the list that you
                                                                                                                                                                    > don't need, a few
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > things
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I'd replace with something else (like the
                                                                                                                                                                    > lights), and a few
                                                                                                                                                                    > things
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > you will need that are missing.
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I'd recommend taking a look at this book to
                                                                                                                                                                    > help you get
                                                                                                                                                                    > started:
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > http://tinyurl.com/7eatk (The New Marine
                                                                                                                                                                    > Aquarium, by Michael
                                                                                                                                                                    > S.
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Paletta).
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bethym99"
                                                                                                                                                                    > <bmetcalf@c...>
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > I am researching marine tank setups and
                                                                                                                                                                    > trying to decide
                                                                                                                                                                    > what to
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > purchase. Boy, there are alot of options!
                                                                                                                                                                    > We are hoping to
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > start a
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > tank that can house some marine fish
                                                                                                                                                                    > (clowns, tangs, etc) and
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > some
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > invertebrates. This setup is available from
                                                                                                                                                                    > someone in town
                                                                                                                                                                    > and
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > I
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > wanted to share the setup and see if any
                                                                                                                                                                    > fellow marine
                                                                                                                                                                    > hobbyists
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > have any feedback on it, what other
                                                                                                                                                                    > questions should I be
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > asking?
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > The LFS owner said it was a 'great deal'
                                                                                                                                                                    > (and he's not
                                                                                                                                                                    > selling
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > it to
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > me).
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > Thank you! I hope to learn alot from this
                                                                                                                                                                    > group so our start
                                                                                                                                                                    > in
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > this
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > hobby is a successful one :-)
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > 55 gallon tank 48"x12"x12"
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > All glass tank and stand (Black)
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > Lunar Light with Moon Light
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > Heater
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > 60 Series Eco System Hang off the back
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > Live Sand
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > Aroma Protein Skimmer
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > 2 Timer
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > 2 Power Strips
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > 2 Power Heads
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > With one wave maker
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > upgraded pump on eco system
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > can filter
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > Selling it for $650
                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11067 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Plants CO2
                                                                                                                                                                    Can i ask how much its costing you to fill up the tank?

                                                                                                                                                                    (I'm compairing price and quality against the Yeast altenative or the Excel
                                                                                                                                                                    additive)

                                                                                                                                                                    =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                    Brisbane, Australia

                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                    From: "Rosaholic" <rosaholic@...>
                                                                                                                                                                    To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 4:53 AM
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants CO2


                                                                                                                                                                    > Nicolas,
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > Your asking all the right questions. It shows your doing your
                                                                                                                                                                    > research. This is why I went with a CO2 tank. I didn't want to risk
                                                                                                                                                                    > damage to the house. I didn't want to fuss with mixing every two
                                                                                                                                                                    > weeks. I didn't want to have to worry about it. The CO2 tanks have
                                                                                                                                                                    > been the way to go for me. The fish are healthy. The plants are
                                                                                                                                                                    > looking incredible. I wouldn't trade the before and after differences
                                                                                                                                                                    > for the world. I have a 20lb CO2 tank. At the rate I'm going, it's
                                                                                                                                                                    > only going to need filled about once a year. Low maintenance. I like
                                                                                                                                                                    > that!
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > --
                                                                                                                                                                    > Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                                                                    > Alan
                                                                                                                                                                    > --
                                                                                                                                                                    > Chandler, Arizona
                                                                                                                                                                    > Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                                                                    > ----
                                                                                                                                                                    > *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                                                                                                                    > *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and
                                                                                                                                                                    > AntiqueRoses
                                                                                                                                                                    > *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your address.
                                                                                                                                                                    > *** Check them out at:
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/listinfo/
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > ***** Sometimes I need what only you can provide... your absence
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > Nicolas J. Munro wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >>One website said:
                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                    >>The yeast method can cause serious damage to the walls of your house if
                                                                                                                                                                    >>not vented.
                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                    >>Is this a common place occurance or just an extream case?
                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                    >>Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                    >>.
                                                                                                                                                                    >>Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                    >>the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                    >>subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                    >>in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                    >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                    > .
                                                                                                                                                                    > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                    > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                    > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                    > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11068 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                    The problem i'm facing is that most people on their websites are quoteing for a 'small' tank i have 90gallon tank and well this weekend i'm going to buy some champane yeast or failing finding that some bakers yeast.
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    If its gana cost me less than $20 then what the heck aye, but i'm not sure if i'm going to notice the effects and blow it off as useless when in reality there just wasn't enought CO2 being formed.
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 5:01 AM
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                                    Love the reply Alan..

                                                                                                                                                                    Now my reply: In the right situation in the right tank Co2 is very much so worth the money. But without adequate lighting , and substrate and or suppliments  Co2 is worthless.

                                                                                                                                                                    Homemade Co2 containers can be made for under $5. 
                                                                                                                                                                    Give it a try. There are a lot of articles for DIY co2 do a google.com or dogpile.com  search for DIY Co2
                                                                                                                                                                    I like chuck gadd's article because it has pictures ( typical man)
                                                                                                                                                                    A DIY CO2 system
                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_co2rig.htm


                                                                                                                                                                    rob
                                                                                                                                                                    Indiana


                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 5/5/2005 1:51:08 PM US Eastern Standard Time, rosaholic@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                    Yes




                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11069 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                    "The CO2 in the tank is a liquid. For this reason, it's important to keep the tank standing up correctly. "  ref:  http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_co2rig.htm
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    Does this apply for all CO2 bottles?
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 5:01 AM
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                                    Love the reply Alan..

                                                                                                                                                                    Now my reply: In the right situation in the right tank Co2 is very much so worth the money. But without adequate lighting , and substrate and or suppliments  Co2 is worthless.

                                                                                                                                                                    Homemade Co2 containers can be made for under $5. 
                                                                                                                                                                    Give it a try. There are a lot of articles for DIY co2 do a google.com or dogpile.com  search for DIY Co2
                                                                                                                                                                    I like chuck gadd's article because it has pictures ( typical man)
                                                                                                                                                                    A DIY CO2 system
                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_co2rig.htm


                                                                                                                                                                    rob
                                                                                                                                                                    Indiana


                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 5/5/2005 1:51:08 PM US Eastern Standard Time, rosaholic@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                    Yes




                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11070 From: Anne Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: cories and balas
                                                                                                                                                                    Quick question. I have 2 baby balas and 3 rosy barbs
                                                                                                                                                                    in a 55gal. I'd like to add a few panda cories. Ok? Or
                                                                                                                                                                    would they end up snacks for the balas down the road?
                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                    Anne

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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11071 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Mystery snails eggs have hatched
                                                                                                                                                                    Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                    just to let you guys know my clutches arrived and one has hatched
                                                                                                                                                                    out about 50 babies. They are so cute and keep changing colors. I love
                                                                                                                                                                    them.
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11072 From: paul helms Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: cories and balas
                                                                                                                                                                    absolutely ok...the cori's do not get in their way,
                                                                                                                                                                    and in addition have barbs in their dorsal and
                                                                                                                                                                    pectoral fins for defense should they need it
                                                                                                                                                                    --- Anne <md_gustoby@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > Quick question. I have 2 baby balas and 3 rosy barbs
                                                                                                                                                                    > in a 55gal. I'd like to add a few panda cories. Ok?
                                                                                                                                                                    > Or
                                                                                                                                                                    > would they end up snacks for the balas down the
                                                                                                                                                                    > road?
                                                                                                                                                                    > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                    > Anne
                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11073 From: Anne Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: cories and balas
                                                                                                                                                                    Paul wrote "absolutely ok...the cori's do not get in
                                                                                                                                                                    their way,and in addition have barbs in their dorsal
                                                                                                                                                                    and pectoral fins for defense should they need it."

                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks Paul.


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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11074 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Mystery snails eggs have hatched
                                                                                                                                                                    lucky you.. I never get to see my baby snails they just fall back in my tank.. I have seen I think 2 lol but I wonder how they survive the water changes lol Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                    Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                       just to let you guys know my clutches arrived and one has hatched
                                                                                                                                                                    out about 50 babies. They are so cute and keep changing colors. I love
                                                                                                                                                                    them.
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11075 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: cories and balas
                                                                                                                                                                    nothing else in this tank? Just 2 baby balas, and 3 rosy Barbs?
                                                                                                                                                                    If this is the case the next question whould be, what kind of substrate?
                                                                                                                                                                    Reason I ask.............
                                                                                                                                                                    Any substrate that is sharp edged is not natural to Cory's, they are constantly turning and sifting through the particles of sand/gravel looking for food. Where sharp edged substrate is used the barbels are constantly being subjected to the abrasive edges, which irritate and cause scratching to the delicate membranes.

                                                                                                                                                                    Large pea gravel is not much good either as Cory's are not designed as weight lifters, the constant moving of what to them are boulders to get to food particles also causes strain and wear on the barbels.

                                                                                                                                                                    If you have small gravel or sand I'd say add away with the cory cats remember they like groups of 3 or more...


                                                                                                                                                                    rob
                                                                                                                                                                    Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                    USA











                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 5/5/2005 10:14:45 PM US Eastern Standard Time, md_gustoby@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                    Quick question. I have 2 baby balas and 3 rosy barbs
                                                                                                                                                                    in a 55gal. I'd like to add a few panda cories. Ok? Or
                                                                                                                                                                    would they end up snacks for the balas down the road?
                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                    Anne




                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11076 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: cories and balas
                                                                                                                                                                    rob is the man and knows he cories... i had no idea of this too they sell them at the fish store and i even asked knowing that ususally they are bottem feeders if the substrate mattered and for the last year i have had 2 that have survived both have no barbels and one even fights mouth issues as well very sad but as they seem to be fine i dont have any options.. im not buying a special tank for 2 cories shannon
                                                                                                                                                                    nothing else in this tank? Just 2 baby balas, and 3 rosy Barbs?
                                                                                                                                                                    If this is the case the next question whould be, what kind of substrate?
                                                                                                                                                                    Reason I ask.............
                                                                                                                                                                    Any substrate that is sharp edged is not natural to Cory's, they are constantly turning and sifting through the particles of sand/gravel looking for food. Where sharp edged substrate is used the barbels are constantly being subjected to the abrasive edges, which irritate and cause scratching to the delicate membranes.

                                                                                                                                                                    Large pea gravel is not much good either as Cory's are not designed as weight lifters, the constant moving of what to them are boulders to get to food particles also causes strain and wear on the barbels.

                                                                                                                                                                    If you have small gravel or sand I'd say add away with the cory cats remember they like groups of 3 or more...
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11077 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/5/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                    I have no idea if i am right But if the co2 is not stored on end wouldn't the gasses be trapped on the side of the tank away from the outlet?
                                                                                                                                                                    gasses rise, liquid CO2 would settle to the bottom




                                                                                                                                                                    rob
                                                                                                                                                                    Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                    USa
                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 5/5/2005 10:00:53 PM US Eastern Standard Time, nmunro@... writes:



                                                                                                                                                                    "The CO2 in the tank is a liquid. For this reason, it's important to keep the tank standing up correctly. "  ref:  http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_co2rig.htm


                                                                                                                                                                    Does this apply for all CO2 bottles?


                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11078 From: paul helms Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: cories and balas
                                                                                                                                                                    they are much more adaptive than taht post leaves you
                                                                                                                                                                    to believe. i have kept cories in a tank with crushed
                                                                                                                                                                    lava for substrate. not only were they not injured by
                                                                                                                                                                    what i consider the most jagges substrate, but they
                                                                                                                                                                    bred in the tank. after 1 year in that tank they were
                                                                                                                                                                    moved into a more natural environment, and are now 3
                                                                                                                                                                    years old, living happily in a mixed group of 6.
                                                                                                                                                                    --- agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > rob is the man and knows he cories... i had no idea
                                                                                                                                                                    > of this too they sell
                                                                                                                                                                    > them at the fish store and i even asked knowing that
                                                                                                                                                                    > ususally they are bottem
                                                                                                                                                                    > feeders if the substrate mattered and for the last
                                                                                                                                                                    > year i have had 2 that have
                                                                                                                                                                    > survived both have no barbels and one even fights
                                                                                                                                                                    > mouth issues as well very
                                                                                                                                                                    > sad but as they seem to be fine i dont have any
                                                                                                                                                                    > options.. im not buying a
                                                                                                                                                                    > special tank for 2 cories shannon
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > nothing else in this tank? Just 2 baby balas, and 3
                                                                                                                                                                    > rosy Barbs?
                                                                                                                                                                    > If this is the case the next question whould be,
                                                                                                                                                                    > what kind of substrate?
                                                                                                                                                                    > Reason I ask.............
                                                                                                                                                                    > Any substrate that is sharp edged is not natural to
                                                                                                                                                                    > Cory's, they are
                                                                                                                                                                    > constantly turning and sifting through the
                                                                                                                                                                    > particles of sand/gravel looking for
                                                                                                                                                                    > food. Where sharp edged substrate is used the
                                                                                                                                                                    > barbels are constantly being
                                                                                                                                                                    > subjected to the abrasive edges, which irritate and
                                                                                                                                                                    > cause scratching to the
                                                                                                                                                                    > delicate membranes.
                                                                                                                                                                    > Large pea gravel is not much good either as Cory's
                                                                                                                                                                    > are not designed as
                                                                                                                                                                    > weight lifters, the constant moving of what to them
                                                                                                                                                                    > are boulders to get to food
                                                                                                                                                                    > particles also causes strain and wear on the
                                                                                                                                                                    > barbels.
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > If you have small gravel or sand I'd say add away
                                                                                                                                                                    > with the cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                    > remember they like groups of 3 or more...
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >



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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11079 From: paul helms Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: cories and balas
                                                                                                                                                                    no problem.... i have 6 myself
                                                                                                                                                                    --- Anne <md_gustoby@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > Paul wrote "absolutely ok...the cori's do not get in
                                                                                                                                                                    > their way,and in addition have barbs in their dorsal
                                                                                                                                                                    > and pectoral fins for defense should they need it."
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > Thanks Paul.
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11080 From: Antonios Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Picture of the month on ReefGossip.com
                                                                                                                                                                    Please Login to Reefgossip.com and cast your vote for Picture of the
                                                                                                                                                                    month.
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11081 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                    When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal. tank he was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                    because he had gotten big enough that he was starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                    the tank (as well as the other fish - I actually watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                    full-grown tiger barb).

                                                                                                                                                                    - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                    kb1dva wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > Here's a photo that might help.he seems to be moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                    > He was
                                                                                                                                                                    > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the Hilton. Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                    > whole thing was given away.i thought they would stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                    > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                    > have enough room. Plants are good hiding places the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                    > rock
                                                                                                                                                                    > with the hole in it.but back to what can I do for him Emily
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                    > .
                                                                                                                                                                    > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                    > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                    > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                    > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11082 From: paul helms Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                    why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                    --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal. tank he
                                                                                                                                                                    > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                    > because he had gotten big enough that he was
                                                                                                                                                                    > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                    > the tank (as well as the other fish - I actually
                                                                                                                                                                    > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                    > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > Here's a photo that might help.he seems to be
                                                                                                                                                                    > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                    > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                    > > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the Hilton.
                                                                                                                                                                    > Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                    > > whole thing was given away.i thought they would
                                                                                                                                                                    > stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                    > > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                    > > have enough room. Plants are good hiding places
                                                                                                                                                                    > the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                    > > rock
                                                                                                                                                                    > > with the hole in it.but back to what can I do for
                                                                                                                                                                    > him Emily
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                                                                                    > when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                    > > .
                                                                                                                                                                    > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                    > that is not
                                                                                                                                                                    > > important to the reply and if changing the topic
                                                                                                                                                                    > of the original
                                                                                                                                                                    > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new
                                                                                                                                                                    > subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                    > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your
                                                                                                                                                                    > help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11083 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                    This was back before I knew better. :) When I bought the pacu, it was
                                                                                                                                                                    the same size as the tiger barbs I had. When it quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                    other fish, I didn't think it would eat them - pacus are supposed to be
                                                                                                                                                                    herbivores, after all.

                                                                                                                                                                    - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                    paul helms wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                    > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal. tank he
                                                                                                                                                                    > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                    > > because he had gotten big enough that he was
                                                                                                                                                                    > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                    > > the tank (as well as the other fish - I actually
                                                                                                                                                                    > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                    > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Here's a photo that might help.he seems to be
                                                                                                                                                                    > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the Hilton.
                                                                                                                                                                    > > Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > whole thing was given away.i thought they would
                                                                                                                                                                    > > stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > have enough room. Plants are good hiding places
                                                                                                                                                                    > > the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > rock
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > with the hole in it.but back to what can I do for
                                                                                                                                                                    > > him Emily
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11084 From: Anne Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: cories and balas
                                                                                                                                                                    nothing else in this tank? Just 2 baby balas, and 3
                                                                                                                                                                    rosy Barbs? If this is the case the next question
                                                                                                                                                                    whould be, what kind of substrate? "

                                                                                                                                                                    Nothing else in the tank, and the substrate is sand. I
                                                                                                                                                                    love sand. I have a 10gal. with cories that is
                                                                                                                                                                    playsand, and the big shark tank is black sand. I have
                                                                                                                                                                    a couple of clowns in another tank with pea gravel
                                                                                                                                                                    substrate that I wish I had used sand in. Now that
                                                                                                                                                                    it's fully cycled I'm afraid to make any changes that
                                                                                                                                                                    would upset the apple cart and possibly hurt the
                                                                                                                                                                    clowns.
                                                                                                                                                                    Anne



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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11085 From: Anne Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: a cory question
                                                                                                                                                                    I have a huge(width wise) cory in my 10 gal. I mean,
                                                                                                                                                                    this is a chubby fella/gal, as round as long! Not
                                                                                                                                                                    sure. There are a total of 4 cories and 2 ottos in
                                                                                                                                                                    that tank but 'boss Hog is without a doubt, the
                                                                                                                                                                    largest and less timid. There is also a betta prowling
                                                                                                                                                                    - gets along great with the others (I've even found
                                                                                                                                                                    all of them in a cave together) Question, how can you
                                                                                                                                                                    sex a cory? And if the cory were to lay eggs, where
                                                                                                                                                                    would they be? And would the betta eat the eggs? Guess
                                                                                                                                                                    it's a couple of questions. lol
                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                    Anne



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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11086 From: TalonStorm Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Plants CO2
                                                                                                                                                                    I posted this once already, but I didn't see it come through. There
                                                                                                                                                                    is an excellent website reference for DIY (yeast) method of CO2. The
                                                                                                                                                                    URL is: http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html

                                                                                                                                                                    It shows exactly how to set it up and there are several fail safe
                                                                                                                                                                    ideas (to keep the bottles from exploding under too much pressure).

                                                                                                                                                                    Tina
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11087 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: a cory question
                                                                                                                                                                    Anne, That hugh Cory catfish could just be a female (w/eggs). Then
                                                                                                                                                                    again, unless you're sure they're all Cory's, it could be a very
                                                                                                                                                                    closely related catfish of the Brochis genus, which look very similar,
                                                                                                                                                                    but which are usually somewhat larger. Quite often, the Cory's will
                                                                                                                                                                    lay their eggs against the glass (side of the tank). Most any fish, if
                                                                                                                                                                    given the chance, will eat other fish eggs; bettas included. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Anne <md_gustoby@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > I have a huge(width wise) cory in my 10 gal. I mean,
                                                                                                                                                                    > this is a chubby fella/gal, as round as long! Not
                                                                                                                                                                    > sure. There are a total of 4 cories and 2 ottos in
                                                                                                                                                                    > that tank but 'boss Hog is without a doubt, the
                                                                                                                                                                    > largest and less timid. There is also a betta prowling
                                                                                                                                                                    > - gets along great with the others (I've even found
                                                                                                                                                                    > all of them in a cave together) Question, how can you
                                                                                                                                                                    > sex a cory? And if the cory were to lay eggs, where
                                                                                                                                                                    > would they be? And would the betta eat the eggs? Guess
                                                                                                                                                                    > it's a couple of questions. lol
                                                                                                                                                                    > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                    > Anne
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11088 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: cories and balas
                                                                                                                                                                    I don't believe the average aquarium gravel is going to take off the barbles of a cory.  I think it is caused by poor water quality or toxins from rotting food in the gravel.  I have kept cories in tanks with what I would consider jagged gravel too, and they have never been hurt by them.
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                    they are much more adaptive than taht post leaves you
                                                                                                                                                                    to believe.  i have kept cories in a tank with crushed
                                                                                                                                                                    lava for substrate.  not only were they not injured by
                                                                                                                                                                    what i consider the most jagges substrate, but they
                                                                                                                                                                    bred in the tank.  after 1 year in that tank they were
                                                                                                                                                                    moved into a more natural environment, and are now 3
                                                                                                                                                                    years old, living happily in a mixed group of 6.
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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11089 From: Nan Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                    Pacu's Herbivores?????  That is a new one to me, since they are in the same family, I believe and I could be wrong, as priannah (spelling sucks tonight, sorry!).  In fact, they are very much a carnivore.  Many breeders I know keep them or Oscars for when they cull their fry, and use the fry as food for them.
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    Nan

                                                                                                                                                                    Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    This was back before I knew better. :) When I bought the pacu, it was
                                                                                                                                                                    the same size as the tiger barbs I had. When it quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                    other fish, I didn't think it would eat them - pacus are supposed to be
                                                                                                                                                                    herbivores, after all.

                                                                                                                                                                    - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                    paul helms wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                    > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal. tank he
                                                                                                                                                                    > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                    > > because he had gotten big enough that he was
                                                                                                                                                                    > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                    > > the tank (as well as the other fish - I actually
                                                                                                                                                                    > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                    > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Here's a photo that might help.he seems to be
                                                                                                                                                                    > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the Hilton.
                                                                                                                                                                    > > Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > whole thing was given away.i thought they would
                                                                                                                                                                    > > stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > have enough room. Plants are good hiding places
                                                                                                                                                                    > > the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > rock
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > with the hole in it.but back to what can I do for
                                                                                                                                                                    > > him    Emily
                                                                                                                                                                    >


                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11090 From: paul helms Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                    you are correct, pacu's are absolutely not herbivores.
                                                                                                                                                                    that is unless you buy them at walmart. according to
                                                                                                                                                                    them they are peaceful community fish that grow to 6
                                                                                                                                                                    inches. they will generally empty a tank within a
                                                                                                                                                                    month. again not plant eaters. fish are food not
                                                                                                                                                                    friends!
                                                                                                                                                                    --- Nan <ntalb00@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > Pacu's Herbivores????? That is a new one to me,
                                                                                                                                                                    > since they are in the same family, I believe and I
                                                                                                                                                                    > could be wrong, as priannah (spelling sucks tonight,
                                                                                                                                                                    > sorry!). In fact, they are very much a carnivore.
                                                                                                                                                                    > Many breeders I know keep them or Oscars for when
                                                                                                                                                                    > they cull their fry, and use the fry as food for
                                                                                                                                                                    > them.
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > This was back before I knew better. :) When I bought
                                                                                                                                                                    > the pacu, it was
                                                                                                                                                                    > the same size as the tiger barbs I had. When it
                                                                                                                                                                    > quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                    > other fish, I didn't think it would eat them - pacus
                                                                                                                                                                    > are supposed to be
                                                                                                                                                                    > herbivores, after all.
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                    > > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal. tank
                                                                                                                                                                    > he
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > because he had gotten big enough that he was
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > the tank (as well as the other fish - I actually
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Here's a photo that might help.he seems to be
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the
                                                                                                                                                                    > Hilton.
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > whole thing was given away.i thought they
                                                                                                                                                                    > would
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > have enough room. Plants are good hiding
                                                                                                                                                                    > places
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > rock
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > with the hole in it.but back to what can I do
                                                                                                                                                                    > for
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > him Emily
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                    > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                    > .
                                                                                                                                                                    > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                    > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                                                                    > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                                                                    > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                                    > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                    > matter
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11091 From: paul helms Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: a cory question
                                                                                                                                                                    female cori's are generally 2-3 times larger than the
                                                                                                                                                                    males.
                                                                                                                                                                    --- Anne <md_gustoby@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > I have a huge(width wise) cory in my 10 gal. I mean,
                                                                                                                                                                    > this is a chubby fella/gal, as round as long! Not
                                                                                                                                                                    > sure. There are a total of 4 cories and 2 ottos in
                                                                                                                                                                    > that tank but 'boss Hog is without a doubt, the
                                                                                                                                                                    > largest and less timid. There is also a betta
                                                                                                                                                                    > prowling
                                                                                                                                                                    > - gets along great with the others (I've even found
                                                                                                                                                                    > all of them in a cave together) Question, how can
                                                                                                                                                                    > you
                                                                                                                                                                    > sex a cory? And if the cory were to lay eggs, where
                                                                                                                                                                    > would they be? And would the betta eat the eggs?
                                                                                                                                                                    > Guess
                                                                                                                                                                    > it's a couple of questions. lol
                                                                                                                                                                    > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                    > Anne
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                                                                                                    > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
                                                                                                                                                                    > tour:
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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11092 From: paul helms Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                    no, they are quite aggressive omnivores actually.
                                                                                                                                                                    unlike most cichlids, they are not naturally
                                                                                                                                                                    aggressive herbivores
                                                                                                                                                                    --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > This was back before I knew better. :) When I bought
                                                                                                                                                                    > the pacu, it was
                                                                                                                                                                    > the same size as the tiger barbs I had. When it
                                                                                                                                                                    > quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                    > other fish, I didn't think it would eat them - pacus
                                                                                                                                                                    > are supposed to be
                                                                                                                                                                    > herbivores, after all.
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                    > > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal. tank
                                                                                                                                                                    > he
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > because he had gotten big enough that he was
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > the tank (as well as the other fish - I actually
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Here's a photo that might help.he seems to be
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the
                                                                                                                                                                    > Hilton.
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > whole thing was given away.i thought they
                                                                                                                                                                    > would
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > have enough room. Plants are good hiding
                                                                                                                                                                    > places
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > rock
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > with the hole in it.but back to what can I do
                                                                                                                                                                    > for
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > him Emily
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    >



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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11093 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                    L numbers have been around since 1988. They were introduced in anticipation
                                                                                                                                                                    of a large number of undescribed species of Loricarid catfish that were
                                                                                                                                                                    being discovered. The introduction of L numbers was to avoid giving "trade
                                                                                                                                                                    (common) names" to the species, a very variable and subjective way of naming
                                                                                                                                                                    fish. A species can have 3, 4, 5 or more common names. I've seen the same
                                                                                                                                                                    fish with a new common name on a subsequent shipment from the wholesaler to
                                                                                                                                                                    a shop.

                                                                                                                                                                    It was Rainer Stawikowski who introduced this system in DATZ, a German
                                                                                                                                                                    aquarium publication, and it has become a very accepted method of
                                                                                                                                                                    identifying Loricarids. It has now also expanded to the cory catfish as
                                                                                                                                                                    well, with the use of C numbers.

                                                                                                                                                                    I mentioned above a little bit about the problems with trade (common) names.
                                                                                                                                                                    Well, that has also crept in, somewhat with the L numbers as well, with
                                                                                                                                                                    duplicate numbers being used. DATZ has tried to straighten this out
                                                                                                                                                                    somewhat, but I guess one could say that no system is perfect. That a fish
                                                                                                                                                                    has an L number does not mean that it cannot also have a common name. Many
                                                                                                                                                                    do, but, with so many of the collectors using L numbers, it has carried
                                                                                                                                                                    over, somewhat, into the trade. It is certainly used by the more advanced
                                                                                                                                                                    keepers of this type of fish.

                                                                                                                                                                    About your comment about Loricarids not eating algae, they all do, but they
                                                                                                                                                                    also include other types of food in their diets. Also, many simply prefer a
                                                                                                                                                                    certain type of algae, and the algae you have, they may not care for,
                                                                                                                                                                    similar to a person who does not like broccoli or peas, or whatever.

                                                                                                                                                                    \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                    Behalf Of Trevor Holyoak
                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 10:51 AM
                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters

                                                                                                                                                                    Like I said in response to a similar e-mail, I'm not sure where I read
                                                                                                                                                                    that, but it would seem to explain the behavior of the ones I have. It
                                                                                                                                                                    wouldn't surprise me at all if it's not really true though. However,
                                                                                                                                                                    with so many types of plecos that they've given them L numbers instead
                                                                                                                                                                    of names, surely there are some for which that is the case? ;)

                                                                                                                                                                    - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                    paul helms wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    > not true at all
                                                                                                                                                                    > --- Trevor <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > > Plecos don't actually eat algae. They eat the
                                                                                                                                                                    > > animals in the algae.
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                    > > <valeendgonzalez@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > from what i've heard plecs don't do such a great
                                                                                                                                                                    > > job of algae eating
                                                                                                                                                                    > > as they mature. so maybe
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > they're not a good idea for you anyway. maybe you
                                                                                                                                                                    > > could try the tank
                                                                                                                                                                    > > w/o an algae eater and see
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > how it works. if algae develops then you can look
                                                                                                                                                                    > > into more algae
                                                                                                                                                                    > > eaters or clean it off w/a
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > magnet or a tank brush. just my thoughts.
                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I got rid of my two giant plecos. The last one
                                                                                                                                                                    > > about a month ago. I
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > figure it's about time to get something to start
                                                                                                                                                                    > > eating this stuff
                                                                                                                                                                    > > but I
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > REALLY do NOT want a plecostamus. I think they
                                                                                                                                                                    > > are so nasty.
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I thought about the Chinese algae eaters, but I
                                                                                                                                                                    > > am fairly certain they
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > will be munched as they are purchased young and
                                                                                                                                                                    > > small. (they are the
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > size of our feeder fish.)
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Any other suggestions? Do I have to have an
                                                                                                                                                                    > > algae eater or can I do
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > without one somehow? If I get plecos, I've been
                                                                                                                                                                    > > advised to get two
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > small ones. When they grow to about 5", I'm to
                                                                                                                                                                    > > turn in one to LFS and
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > keep the other. Then repeat this as the other
                                                                                                                                                                    > > grows too large. But
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > again, I don't want plecos. They are so
                                                                                                                                                                    > > contaminating!
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Leslie
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > > > I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11094 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                    I haven't really been following the threads on CO2 here. Pretty much, I
                                                                                                                                                                    think it is personal preference. If I were going to try CO2, I'd first
                                                                                                                                                                    experiment on a smaller tank where I could use one of those home brewed
                                                                                                                                                                    systems with the yeast water mixture in a soda bottle to produce the CO2. If
                                                                                                                                                                    that worked out to my satisfaction, and I could attribute the increased
                                                                                                                                                                    growth to the CO2 addition, I'd probably go with the tank and metering
                                                                                                                                                                    devices to distribute the CO2 among the tanks I wished to have the system
                                                                                                                                                                    in. While it would be a bit on the pricey side to start, the price would be
                                                                                                                                                                    amortized over a period of time, and of course the extra plants that you
                                                                                                                                                                    have when you thin out your aquarium could be sold to other hobbyists,
                                                                                                                                                                    either directly or through club auctions, giving a return on your
                                                                                                                                                                    investment.

                                                                                                                                                                    I do know people who use CO2 via a number of delivery systems, and the tank
                                                                                                                                                                    and metering devices seem to be the way to go for ease of maintenance.

                                                                                                                                                                    \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                    ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                    Behalf Of Nicolas Munro
                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 10:53 PM
                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?


                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, Ray, Steve, anybody what do you think?

                                                                                                                                                                    There are "systems" which include a gas pressures, needle valve, bubble
                                                                                                                                                                    counter, solinoid.



                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                    From: Nicolas Munro <mailto:nmunro@...>
                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 12:44 PM
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?


                                                                                                                                                                    Is CO2 worth the money to make the plants grow better?

                                                                                                                                                                    =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11095 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Mystery snails eggs have hatched
                                                                                                                                                                    Once the clutches look moldy I moved them into a plastic shoe box
                                                                                                                                                                    thingy for a temp home until they get a little bigger. And tonight
                                                                                                                                                                    another one hatched about 30 it was a small clutch.


                                                                                                                                                                    > lucky you.. I never get to see my baby snails they just fall back in
                                                                                                                                                                    my
                                                                                                                                                                    > tank.. I have seen I think 2 lol but I wonder how they survive the
                                                                                                                                                                    water changes
                                                                                                                                                                    > lol Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                    > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                    > just to let you guys know my clutches arrived and one has hatched
                                                                                                                                                                    > out about 50 babies. They are so cute and keep changing colors. I love
                                                                                                                                                                    > them.
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11096 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Mystery snails eggs have hatched
                                                                                                                                                                    I think we might have different kinds as Terri told me to keep them in a moist place ideal in the tank but if they fall off the sides I have a temp home in a plastic container with water in it and net over the top and heat coming of the light strip.. Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                    Once the clutches look moldy I moved them into a plastic shoe box
                                                                                                                                                                    thingy for a temp home until they get a little bigger. And tonight
                                                                                                                                                                    another one hatched about 30 it was a small clutch.
                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11097 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: cories and balas
                                                                                                                                                                    I then would add 6-10 cories. Preferably one species but if you want to mix and match No problem.
                                                                                                                                                                    I currently have 12+ diffrent species of cory cats spread out over 10 or so tanks
                                                                                                                                                                    I wouldn't want to add anymore bottom dwellers  unless they are more cory cats. I have approx 20-25 cory cats in my 4' community tank mostly mix and match they have been there over 2 years with no problems.

                                                                                                                                                                    Rob
                                                                                                                                                                    Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                    USA




                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 5/6/2005 3:13:25 PM US Eastern Standard Time, md_gustoby@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                    Nothing else in the tank, and the substrate is sand. I
                                                                                                                                                                    love sand. I have a 10gal. with cories that is
                                                                                                                                                                    playsand, and the big shark tank is black sand. I have
                                                                                                                                                                    a couple of clowns in another tank with pea gravel
                                                                                                                                                                    substrate that I wish I had used sand in. Now that
                                                                                                                                                                    it's fully cycled I'm afraid to make any changes that
                                                                                                                                                                    would upset the apple cart and possibly hurt the
                                                                                                                                                                    clowns.
                                                                                                                                                                    Anne


                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11098 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: a cory question
                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                      Eggs would be eaten right away by the betta..
                                                                                                                                                                      The eggs depending on species would be laid on the glass,heater,filter,at water line, in plants or where ever.

                                                                                                                                                                      As to sex a cory cat : Most cory cats species can be sexed by  body size. Females rounder and wider across the back when viewed frm above Males longer and thinner.



                                                                                                                                                                      Here is a Great Article I suggest you read explaining more:  The boys and the Girls


                                                                                                                                                                      rob
                                                                                                                                                                      Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                      USA

                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/6/2005 3:19:49 PM US Eastern Standard Time, md_gustoby@yahoo.com writes:


                                                                                                                                                                      I have a huge(width wise) cory in my 10 gal. I mean,
                                                                                                                                                                      this is a chubby fella/gal, as round as long! Not
                                                                                                                                                                      sure. There are a total of 4 cories and 2 ottos in
                                                                                                                                                                      that tank but 'boss Hog is without a doubt, the
                                                                                                                                                                      largest and less timid. There is also a betta prowling
                                                                                                                                                                      - gets along great with the others (I've even found
                                                                                                                                                                      all of them in a cave together) Question, how can you
                                                                                                                                                                      sex a cory? And if the cory were to lay eggs, where
                                                                                                                                                                      would they be? And would the betta eat the eggs? Guess
                                                                                                                                                                      it's a couple of questions. lol
                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      Anne


                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11099 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                          Taxonomy is a joke, in my opinion.  If common names are removed and all fish are labeled by latin names, the entire aquarium industry will quickly die as people are turned off by the fact that they don't know what they are buying.  NOBODY SPEAKS LATIN BUT OLD RICH GUYS (doctors, biologists, and priests)!  Who wants to buy a b. splendens?  People want bettas.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      :)
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      L numbers have been around since 1988. They were introduced in anticipation of a large number of undescribed species of Loricarid catfish that were
                                                                                                                                                                      being discovered. The introduction of L numbers was to avoid giving "trade (common) names" to the species, a very variable and subjective way of naming
                                                                                                                                                                      fish. A species can have 3, 4, 5 or more common names. I've seen the same fish with a new common name on a subsequent shipment from the wholesaler to
                                                                                                                                                                      a shop.
                                                                                                                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11100 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                          Pacus are tetras, not Cichlids, and they are in fact mostly herbivores, but will eat small fish.  Like all large fish, it will eat whatever is given to it, but from what I've read, in the wild they eat mostly plants.  Like all large fish, the myth is spread that they eat mostly meat to increase the sale of feeder fish.  They also belong in rivers, ponds, and lakes, not aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      no, they are quite aggressive omnivores actually.
                                                                                                                                                                      unlike most cichlids, they are not naturally
                                                                                                                                                                      aggressive herbivores
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11101 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/6/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Pacus eat plant material, not meat
                                                                                                                                                                      Just in case anybody doubts that pacus are herbivores, you might be interested to see how they are raised in their native land for food.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11102 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      Nan, In the scientific community, Pacu's are categorized as
                                                                                                                                                                      Herbivores; their diet consisting mainly of plant material. While
                                                                                                                                                                      they are in the same family as Piranhas, that family also includes
                                                                                                                                                                      Silver Dollars (Piranha-like herbivores) as well as the Neon,
                                                                                                                                                                      Cardinal and all other community tank Tetras. They are also related
                                                                                                                                                                      to freshwater Trout and Salmon, and yes, the feared African Tiger
                                                                                                                                                                      Fish (Hydrocynus) of which there are about six species in the genus,
                                                                                                                                                                      one getting to 12 feet and known to pull African fisherman into the
                                                                                                                                                                      river -- by the legs, not by the line! Like most other fish, Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                      are opportunists and if a fish will fit in its mouth it will eat it.
                                                                                                                                                                      In that respect you could say its an Omnivore, but again, most any
                                                                                                                                                                      Herbivore will take in a fish if its small enough to fit in its
                                                                                                                                                                      mouth. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                      \
                                                                                                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > Pacu's Herbivores????? That is a new one to me, since they are in
                                                                                                                                                                      the same family, I believe and I could be wrong, as priannah
                                                                                                                                                                      (spelling sucks tonight, sorry!). In fact, they are very much a
                                                                                                                                                                      carnivore. Many breeders I know keep them or Oscars for when they
                                                                                                                                                                      cull their fry, and use the fry as food for them.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > This was back before I knew better. :) When I bought the pacu, it
                                                                                                                                                                      was
                                                                                                                                                                      > the same size as the tiger barbs I had. When it quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                      > other fish, I didn't think it would eat them - pacus are supposed
                                                                                                                                                                      to be
                                                                                                                                                                      > herbivores, after all.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                      > > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal. tank he
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > because he had gotten big enough that he was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > the tank (as well as the other fish - I actually
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > Here's a photo that might help.he seems to be
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the Hilton.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > whole thing was given away.i thought they would
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > have enough room. Plants are good hiding places
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > rock
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > with the hole in it.but back to what can I do for
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > him Emily
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11103 From: Charlene Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                                      Hi ok I put my sand in my tank. Now I need to know about the heater.
                                                                                                                                                                      I have 2 hearter. 1 is viaAqua glass heating, and the other is Pro
                                                                                                                                                                      Heat IC heater. Both of them is 200W. I need to know i If i have to
                                                                                                                                                                      got more heater for my 55 ga tank. And when should I keep them in my 55
                                                                                                                                                                      ga tank. Thank you for helping me Charlene muffin4494@...
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11104 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick posted, under another header, a link to a paper on aquaculture of
                                                                                                                                                                      pacus and a related fish. If you did not see this, the link is:
                                                                                                                                                                      <http://pdacrsp.oregonstate.edu/pubs/workplns/wp_10/10FFR1.html>. The
                                                                                                                                                                      important sentence, so far as this discussion is concerned, is: "The diets
                                                                                                                                                                      of wild _C. macropomum_ are about 20 to 30% protein, with 75% of the protein
                                                                                                                                                                      being of plant origin (Araujo-Lima and Goulding, 1997).".

                                                                                                                                                                      The fish we are most likely speaking of in the thread is _Piaractus
                                                                                                                                                                      brachypomus_. According to fishbase.org, the diet of this fish is; "Feeds on
                                                                                                                                                                      insects and decaying plants (Ref. 32894).". The reference is: "Lovshin,
                                                                                                                                                                      L.L., 1995. The colossomids. p. 153-159. In C.E. Nash and A.J. Novotny
                                                                                                                                                                      (eds.) World animal science: production of aquatic animals: fishes. Elsevier
                                                                                                                                                                      Science, Amsterdam, The Netherlands.", in case you wish to look it up. I
                                                                                                                                                                      have seen, but do not have handy, other references that describe the stomach
                                                                                                                                                                      contents as being mainly vegetative, including whole fruits.

                                                                                                                                                                      While the fish is not adverse to adding some animal protein to its diet, it
                                                                                                                                                                      most certainly seems to be primarily an herbivore, and would do quite well
                                                                                                                                                                      on a vegetarian diet exclusively. I have often said that fish are
                                                                                                                                                                      opportunistic feeders. They see food, so they eat. In the case under
                                                                                                                                                                      discussion, the fish saw food in the form of a tiger barb, so it ate.

                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 11:25 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pacu 911

                                                                                                                                                                      no, they are quite aggressive omnivores actually.
                                                                                                                                                                      unlike most cichlids, they are not naturally
                                                                                                                                                                      aggressive herbivores
                                                                                                                                                                      --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > This was back before I knew better. :) When I bought
                                                                                                                                                                      > the pacu, it was
                                                                                                                                                                      > the same size as the tiger barbs I had. When it
                                                                                                                                                                      > quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                      > other fish, I didn't think it would eat them - pacus
                                                                                                                                                                      > are supposed to be
                                                                                                                                                                      > herbivores, after all.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                      > > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal. tank
                                                                                                                                                                      > he
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > because he had gotten big enough that he was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > the tank (as well as the other fish - I actually
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > Here's a photo that might help.he seems to be
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the
                                                                                                                                                                      > Hilton.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > whole thing was given away.i thought they
                                                                                                                                                                      > would
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > have enough room. Plants are good hiding
                                                                                                                                                                      > places
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > rock
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > with the hole in it.but back to what can I do
                                                                                                                                                                      > for
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > him Emily
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11105 From: Rosaholic Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                      Once you've invested in the equipment the price is cheap. I fill a 20lb
                                                                                                                                                                      tank with CO2 for $10. That's less than 84 cents a month to maintain
                                                                                                                                                                      the tank after that originally large investment. As you said, the
                                                                                                                                                                      initial investment isn't cheap, but if you watch, you can get some good
                                                                                                                                                                      savings. Especially on Ebay. My total investment was $273 for
                                                                                                                                                                      equipment, then $10 for that first tank of CO2.

                                                                                                                                                                      --
                                                                                                                                                                      Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                                                                      Alan
                                                                                                                                                                      --
                                                                                                                                                                      Chandler, Arizona
                                                                                                                                                                      Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                                                                      ----
                                                                                                                                                                      *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                                                                                                                      *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and
                                                                                                                                                                      AntiqueRoses
                                                                                                                                                                      *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your address.
                                                                                                                                                                      *** Check them out at:

                                                                                                                                                                      http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/listinfo/

                                                                                                                                                                      ***** Sometimes I need what only you can provide... your absence


                                                                                                                                                                      Steve Szabo wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                      >I haven't really been following the threads on CO2 here. Pretty much, I
                                                                                                                                                                      >think it is personal preference. If I were going to try CO2, I'd first
                                                                                                                                                                      >experiment on a smaller tank where I could use one of those home brewed
                                                                                                                                                                      >systems with the yeast water mixture in a soda bottle to produce the CO2. If
                                                                                                                                                                      >that worked out to my satisfaction, and I could attribute the increased
                                                                                                                                                                      >growth to the CO2 addition, I'd probably go with the tank and metering
                                                                                                                                                                      >devices to distribute the CO2 among the tanks I wished to have the system
                                                                                                                                                                      >in. While it would be a bit on the pricey side to start, the price would be
                                                                                                                                                                      >amortized over a period of time, and of course the extra plants that you
                                                                                                                                                                      >have when you thin out your aquarium could be sold to other hobbyists,
                                                                                                                                                                      >either directly or through club auctions, giving a return on your
                                                                                                                                                                      >investment.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >I do know people who use CO2 via a number of delivery systems, and the tank
                                                                                                                                                                      >and metering devices seem to be the way to go for ease of maintenance.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >\\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      >Behalf Of Nicolas Munro
                                                                                                                                                                      >Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 10:53 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >Patrick, Ray, Steve, anybody what do you think?
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >There are "systems" which include a gas pressures, needle valve, bubble
                                                                                                                                                                      >counter, solinoid.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                      > From: Nicolas Munro <mailto:nmunro@...>
                                                                                                                                                                      > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 12:44 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Is CO2 worth the money to make the plants grow better?
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      >.
                                                                                                                                                                      >Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11106 From: Dawana B Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Fin rot??

                                                                                                                                                                      I've just noticed that one of my older black skirt tetras looks as if she's missing part of her tail (she's a long-fin type).  Is it possible that she has fin rot?  She appears to be eating and socializing well.  I don't have any other fish that are bigger, she's one of the biggest.  I do have 4 serpae tetras in the tank (29 gal), but there are 7 black skirt tetras.  The other inhabitants are: cories (8), otos (4), endlers, male only (7), amano shrimp (4), danios (7), and neons (10ish).  It's a well planted tank, all parameters zero, pH is 7.2, well established. Most recent occupants are 4 cories and about 8 neons.

                                                                                                                                                                      I'm really confused as to what could be happening to her/his(lol) tail.  I realize the serpae tetras are fin nippers, but I thought with their number, they would leave everyone else alone.  I see them chasing each other all the time.

                                                                                                                                                                      Should I quarantine the black skiirt tetra and treat? or should I add more serape tetras? or just continue to monitor?

                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks for your advice in advance!

                                                                                                                                                                      -Dawana

                                                                                                                                                                      P.S.  I realize my tank is over-stocked based on the 1" rule.  Novices should not try this.  I'm extremely over-filtered, well-planted, and I change my water regularly and monitor it religiously. Many thanks!

                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11107 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                                      Charlene, You have wa a a y y y too much heater capacity for your 55
                                                                                                                                                                      gallon tank. General rule of thunb is 3 watts per gallon, so 150 watts
                                                                                                                                                                      would just about be it. To guard against overheating your tank in case
                                                                                                                                                                      a thermostat sticks, its always best to use 2 heaters (of half the
                                                                                                                                                                      total wattage each). This way if one heater sticks it can't cook your
                                                                                                                                                                      fish as it will only have 75 watts. And once the heat goes even
                                                                                                                                                                      slightly above the preset temperature, the other heater will not come
                                                                                                                                                                      on. You can (should) keep them in your 55 year 'round; they'll only
                                                                                                                                                                      come on as needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                      \
                                                                                                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Charlene" <muffin4494@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > Hi ok I put my sand in my tank. Now I need to know about the
                                                                                                                                                                      heater.
                                                                                                                                                                      > I have 2 hearter. 1 is viaAqua glass heating, and the other is Pro
                                                                                                                                                                      > Heat IC heater. Both of them is 200W. I need to know i If i have to
                                                                                                                                                                      > got more heater for my 55 ga tank. And when should I keep them in my
                                                                                                                                                                      55
                                                                                                                                                                      > ga tank. Thank you for helping me Charlene muffin4494@y...
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11108 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Mystery snails eggs have hatched
                                                                                                                                                                      I'm not sure. They are the pomecia brigesii ones. I keep them moist in
                                                                                                                                                                      the tank on styrofoam and than once there ready to hatch I put them in
                                                                                                                                                                      the little box (still on styrofoam). I'm gonna have to upgrade to the
                                                                                                                                                                      bigger temp. home quick. They are growing so fast. Than once big
                                                                                                                                                                      enough they will go into my other 2 tanks.


                                                                                                                                                                      > I think we might have different kinds as Terri told me to keep them
                                                                                                                                                                      in a
                                                                                                                                                                      > moist place ideal in the tank but if they fall off the sides I have
                                                                                                                                                                      a temp home
                                                                                                                                                                      > in a plastic container with water in it and net over the top and
                                                                                                                                                                      heat coming
                                                                                                                                                                      > of the light strip.. Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Once the clutches look moldy I moved them into a plastic shoe box
                                                                                                                                                                      > thingy for a temp home until they get a little bigger. And tonight
                                                                                                                                                                      > another one hatched about 30 it was a small clutch.
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11109 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                                      WOW 400watts of heater in a 55 gallon tank....
                                                                                                                                                                      You could get away with a single 200 watt heater in my opinion. I'd use the Pro-Heat  as I don't really care for the Via-Aqua Glass

                                                                                                                                                                      of course this is just my opinion.

                                                                                                                                                                      100 watt. For 5 to 20 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      200 watt. For 20 to 40 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      300 watt. For 40 to 75 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      400watt. For 75 to 120 gallon aquarium


                                                                                                                                                                      rob
                                                                                                                                                                      Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                      USA



                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/7/2005 6:35:43 AM US Eastern Standard Time, muffin4494@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                      Hi  ok  I put my sand in my tank. Now I need to know about the heater. 
                                                                                                                                                                      I  have 2 hearter. 1 is viaAqua glass heating, and the other is Pro
                                                                                                                                                                      Heat IC heater.  Both of them is 200W. I need to know i If i have to
                                                                                                                                                                      got more heater for my 55 ga tank. And when should I keep them in my 55
                                                                                                                                                                      ga tank. Thank you for helping me  Charlene  muffin4494@...


                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11110 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                                      On the other hand, for larger tanks, the water temperature tends to stay much more stable than it does for smaller tanks. I have found that a 250 watt heater is very adequate for my 150 gallon tank.

                                                                                                                                                                      - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                      FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      WOW 400watts of heater in a 55 gallon tank....
                                                                                                                                                                      You could get away with a single 200 watt heater in my opinion. I'd use the Pro-Heat  as I don't really care for the Via-Aqua Glass

                                                                                                                                                                      of course this is just my opinion.

                                                                                                                                                                      100 watt. For 5 to 20 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      200 watt. For 20 to 40 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      300 watt. For 40 to 75 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      400watt. For 75 to 120 gallon aquarium


                                                                                                                                                                      rob
                                                                                                                                                                      Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                      USA



                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/7/2005 6:35:43 AM US Eastern Standard Time, muffin4494@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                      Hi  ok  I put my sand in my tank. Now I need to know about the heater. 
                                                                                                                                                                      I  have 2 hearter. 1 is viaAqua glass heating, and the other is Pro
                                                                                                                                                                      Heat IC heater.  Both of them is 200W. I need to know i If i have to
                                                                                                                                                                      got more heater for my 55 ga tank. And when should I keep them in my 55
                                                                                                                                                                      ga tank. Thank you for helping me  Charlene  muffin4494@...




                                                                                                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      .
                                                                                                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11111 From: Trevor Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      In the wild, their main diet is actually fruit, seeds, and nuts. It
                                                                                                                                                                      sounds to me like an herbivore. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                      - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > Pacu's Herbivores????? That is a new one to me, since they are in
                                                                                                                                                                      the same family, I believe and I could be wrong, as priannah (spelling
                                                                                                                                                                      sucks tonight, sorry!). In fact, they are very much a carnivore.
                                                                                                                                                                      Many breeders I know keep them or Oscars for when they cull their fry,
                                                                                                                                                                      and use the fry as food for them.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > This was back before I knew better. :) When I bought the pacu, it was
                                                                                                                                                                      > the same size as the tiger barbs I had. When it quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                      > other fish, I didn't think it would eat them - pacus are supposed to be
                                                                                                                                                                      > herbivores, after all.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                      > > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal. tank he
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > because he had gotten big enough that he was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > the tank (as well as the other fish - I actually
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > Here's a photo that might help.he seems to be
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the Hilton.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > whole thing was given away.i thought they would
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > have enough room. Plants are good hiding places
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > rock
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > with the hole in it.but back to what can I do for
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > him Emily
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      > .
                                                                                                                                                                      > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                      important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                      message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                      subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11112 From: Trevor Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      At the time that this occurred, I was involved in a different
                                                                                                                                                                      discussion group, and we had a discussion very similar to this one. :)
                                                                                                                                                                      As I recall, the conclusion reached was that they should be considered
                                                                                                                                                                      "opportunistic herbivores."

                                                                                                                                                                      - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > you are correct, pacu's are absolutely not herbivores.
                                                                                                                                                                      > that is unless you buy them at walmart. according to
                                                                                                                                                                      > them they are peaceful community fish that grow to 6
                                                                                                                                                                      > inches. they will generally empty a tank within a
                                                                                                                                                                      > month. again not plant eaters. fish are food not
                                                                                                                                                                      > friends!
                                                                                                                                                                      > --- Nan <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Pacu's Herbivores????? That is a new one to me,
                                                                                                                                                                      > > since they are in the same family, I believe and I
                                                                                                                                                                      > > could be wrong, as priannah (spelling sucks tonight,
                                                                                                                                                                      > > sorry!). In fact, they are very much a carnivore.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Many breeders I know keep them or Oscars for when
                                                                                                                                                                      > > they cull their fry, and use the fry as food for
                                                                                                                                                                      > > them.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > This was back before I knew better. :) When I bought
                                                                                                                                                                      > > the pacu, it was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > the same size as the tiger barbs I had. When it
                                                                                                                                                                      > > quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > other fish, I didn't think it would eat them - pacus
                                                                                                                                                                      > > are supposed to be
                                                                                                                                                                      > > herbivores, after all.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal. tank
                                                                                                                                                                      > > he
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > because he had gotten big enough that he was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > the tank (as well as the other fish - I actually
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > Here's a photo that might help.he seems to be
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Hilton.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > whole thing was given away.i thought they
                                                                                                                                                                      > > would
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > have enough room. Plants are good hiding
                                                                                                                                                                      > > places
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > rock
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > with the hole in it.but back to what can I do
                                                                                                                                                                      > > for
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > him Emily
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                      > > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      > > .
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                      > > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                                                                      > > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                                                                      > > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                                      > > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                      > > matter
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11113 From: Trevor Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacus eat plant material, not meat
                                                                                                                                                                      Here's an interesting link as well - a guide to catching them in their
                                                                                                                                                                      natural habitat using "Small fruits, seeds and nuts" as bait. :)

                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.thaifishingguide.com/fishtechequip/fish/freshwaterfish/pacu_red_bellied.html
                                                                                                                                                                      (or http://tinyurl.com/d7ogk )

                                                                                                                                                                      - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                                                      <patrickmn1@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > Just in case anybody doubts that pacus are herbivores, you might be
                                                                                                                                                                      > interested to see how they are raised in their native land for food.
                                                                                                                                                                      > http://pdacrsp.oregonstate.edu/pubs/workplns/wp_10/10FFR1.html
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11114 From: kb1dva Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: pacu and other things

                                                                                                                                                                      The pacu is eating and I’m happy. It seems like whatever happened to his face spooked him and he’s getting over it, maybe it was being in such close quarters. He now swims the length and height of the tank, I guess they will grow quickly now. I’ve been thinking I should get some algae eaters, but what kind, and how many. I have 3 blood parrots (3-4 inches long) the pike cichlid and the 10 inch pacu. What would be a nice colorful addition to this habitat? Oh and before I forget how long should I wait to do this? Also being a novice should I leave the pacu and his wound alone? What are the advantages of? Meds. I almost forgot the tank is 90 gallons 4ft by 2ft deep and 18 inches wide.                  Emily

                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11115 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: a cory question
                                                                                                                                                                      I don't believe that is true, Paul. Some examples culled from PlanetCatfish
                                                                                                                                                                      and fishbase.org:

                                                                                                                                                                      _Corydoras aeneus_ (bronze cory, aeneus), males 65 mm, females 75 mm
                                                                                                                                                                      _Corydoras adolfoi_ (Adolfo's cory), to 50 mm. Females are slightly larger
                                                                                                                                                                      than males and fuller when viewed from above (this is fuller from above is
                                                                                                                                                                      generally true with corys.)
                                                                                                                                                                      _Corydoras arcuatus_ (skunk cory) 4 cm. No specific information of sexual
                                                                                                                                                                      dimorphism.
                                                                                                                                                                      _Corydoras elegans_ (elegant cory) 55 mm, the male is smaller, less high
                                                                                                                                                                      bodied, slender and more strikingly patterned.
                                                                                                                                                                      _Corydoras hastatus_ 30 mm, No specific information on sexual dimorphism.
                                                                                                                                                                      _Corydoras julii_ (leopard cory) 5.2 cm, No specific information on sexual
                                                                                                                                                                      dimorphism.
                                                                                                                                                                      _Corydoras paleatus_ (peppered cory) 70 mm, ah, females can get considerably
                                                                                                                                                                      large than males and possess a heavier girth. Probably not twice the size,
                                                                                                                                                                      though. That would have been noted.
                                                                                                                                                                      _Corydoras panda_ (panda cory) 50 mm, no size difference noted between the
                                                                                                                                                                      sexes.
                                                                                                                                                                      _Corydoras punctatus_ (spotted cory) 60 mm, no sexual dimorphism noted.
                                                                                                                                                                      _Corydoras pygmaeus_ (pygmy cory) 28 mm, no size differential noted.
                                                                                                                                                                      _Corydoras reticulatus_ (reticulated corydoras) 6.1 cm, no sexual
                                                                                                                                                                      dimorphism noted.

                                                                                                                                                                      I chose them semi randomly, picking those I think many people would be
                                                                                                                                                                      familiar with.

                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 11:23 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] a cory question

                                                                                                                                                                      female cori's are generally 2-3 times larger than the
                                                                                                                                                                      males.
                                                                                                                                                                      --- Anne <md_gustoby@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > I have a huge(width wise) cory in my 10 gal. I mean,
                                                                                                                                                                      > this is a chubby fella/gal, as round as long! Not
                                                                                                                                                                      > sure. There are a total of 4 cories and 2 ottos in
                                                                                                                                                                      > that tank but 'boss Hog is without a doubt, the
                                                                                                                                                                      > largest and less timid. There is also a betta
                                                                                                                                                                      > prowling
                                                                                                                                                                      > - gets along great with the others (I've even found
                                                                                                                                                                      > all of them in a cave together) Question, how can
                                                                                                                                                                      > you
                                                                                                                                                                      > sex a cory? And if the cory were to lay eggs, where
                                                                                                                                                                      > would they be? And would the betta eat the eggs?
                                                                                                                                                                      > Guess
                                                                                                                                                                      > it's a couple of questions. lol
                                                                                                                                                                      > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      > Anne
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11116 From: Andreas Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Leaf Fish (Monocyrrus Polycanthus) are breeding
                                                                                                                                                                      Hey all

                                                                                                                                                                      My leaf fish leayed eggs yesterday and the male is busy guarding them.
                                                                                                                                                                      Last time they did this they where fertilized and hatched, but then
                                                                                                                                                                      they died. How do I best take are of them? I got a fry container to
                                                                                                                                                                      keep them in, but I am not sure what to feed them, and of course they
                                                                                                                                                                      are so hard to see it's hard to see if they are eating.

                                                                                                                                                                      If anyone wants pictured of them doing a great mouth display, and the
                                                                                                                                                                      female laying eggs. just let me know.

                                                                                                                                                                      any advice is appreciated

                                                                                                                                                                      Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11117 From: Michele Kerby Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Introduction
                                                                                                                                                                      I've been lurking here a bit so I thought it was time to introduce
                                                                                                                                                                      myself. My name is Michele Kerby. My parents had tropical fish when I
                                                                                                                                                                      was young but I'm just starting out myself, so I consider myself very
                                                                                                                                                                      much a newbie. My husband and I have a 29 gallon tank with two mickey
                                                                                                                                                                      mouse platties, two black mollies, one pearl molly, two female guppies,
                                                                                                                                                                      two pictus catfish (very small, will have to go to their own tank soon),
                                                                                                                                                                      one pl*co, (also small), and two african dwarf frogs.
                                                                                                                                                                      Thank you for letting me join this group. It's very informative and a
                                                                                                                                                                      lot of fun.

                                                                                                                                                                      Michele Kerby
                                                                                                                                                                      mkerby@...
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11118 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: pacu and other things
                                                                                                                                                                      If you can't dig a pond, I suggest trying to sell the pacu before it outgrows that 90 gallon.  Some fish don't belong in fish tanks.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                                                      The pacu is eating and I’m happy. It seems like whatever happened to his face spooked him and he’s getting over it, maybe it was being in such close quarters. He now swims the length and height of the tank, I guess they will grow quickly now. I’ve been thinking I should get some algae eaters, but what kind, and how many. I have 3 blood parrots (3-4 inches long) the pike cichlid and the 10 inch pacu. What would be a nice colorful addition to this habitat? Oh and before I forget how long should I wait to do this? Also being a novice should I leave the pacu and his wound alone? What are the advantages of? Meds. I almost forgot the tank is 90 gallons 4ft by 2ft deep and 18 inches wide.                  Emily

                                                                                                                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11119 From: harry perry Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Leaf Fish (Monocyrrus Polycanthus) are breeding/fantastic
                                                                                                                                                                      The male will guard the fry. The female needs to be removed. I wouldn't remove the fry unless there are other fish that might eat them. Try liquid fry food for egg layers. Then bbs when they are big enough to handle it. Most egg layer's fry are born with a yolk sac to provide food but this is only good for 24 to 48 hours. I would care for the fry the same way I would for labyrinth fish fry. Liquid fry food, infursoria, etc. They are in the perch family, not a labyrinth fish.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Harry

                                                                                                                                                                      Andreas <andreas1120@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      Hey all

                                                                                                                                                                      My leaf fish leayed eggs yesterday and the male is busy guarding them.
                                                                                                                                                                      Last time they did this they where fertilized and hatched, but then
                                                                                                                                                                      they died.   How do I best take are of them?  I got a fry container to
                                                                                                                                                                      keep them in, but I am not sure what to feed them, and of course they
                                                                                                                                                                      are so hard to see it's hard to see if they are eating.

                                                                                                                                                                      If anyone wants pictured of them doing a great mouth display, and the
                                                                                                                                                                      female laying eggs. just let me know.

                                                                                                                                                                        any advice is appreciated

                                                                                                                                                                        Andreas


                                                                                                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      .
                                                                                                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11120 From: Andreas Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Leaf Fish (Monocyrrus Polycanthus) are breeding/fantastic
                                                                                                                                                                      What are examples of liquid food? WHat is infusoria? I don't have
                                                                                                                                                                      another tank so I can't remove the female. Last time there was not
                                                                                                                                                                      trouble with her... One problem is that I put in feeder fish hours
                                                                                                                                                                      before they started so now I can only hope they will be eaten soon.
                                                                                                                                                                      I am going to have to try just using the fry proctector...

                                                                                                                                                                      Andreas

                                                                                                                                                                      On 5/7/05, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > The male will guard the fry. The female needs to be removed. I wouldn't
                                                                                                                                                                      > remove the fry unless there are other fish that might eat them. Try liquid
                                                                                                                                                                      > fry food for egg layers. Then bbs when they are big enough to handle it.
                                                                                                                                                                      > Most egg layer's fry are born with a yolk sac to provide food but this is
                                                                                                                                                                      > only good for 24 to 48 hours. I would care for the fry the same way I would
                                                                                                                                                                      > for labyrinth fish fry. Liquid fry food, infursoria, etc. They are in the
                                                                                                                                                                      > perch family, not a labyrinth fish.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Harry
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Andreas <andreas1120@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > Hey all
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > My leaf fish leayed eggs yesterday and the male is busy guarding them.
                                                                                                                                                                      > Last time they did this they where fertilized and hatched, but then
                                                                                                                                                                      > they died. How do I best take are of them? I got a fry container to
                                                                                                                                                                      > keep them in, but I am not sure what to feed them, and of course they
                                                                                                                                                                      > are so hard to see it's hard to see if they are eating.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > If anyone wants pictured of them doing a great mouth display, and the
                                                                                                                                                                      > female laying eggs. just let me know.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > any advice is appreciated
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      > .
                                                                                                                                                                      > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                      > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                      > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                      > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                                                                                      > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11121 From: Andreas Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Leaf Fish (Monocyrrus Polycanthus) are breeding/fantastic
                                                                                                                                                                      Oh sorry I misunderstood... the male will guard even the fry? So I
                                                                                                                                                                      could just leave them in there as long as I fidn a way to feed them...

                                                                                                                                                                      Andreas

                                                                                                                                                                      On 5/7/05, Andreas <andreas1120@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > What are examples of liquid food? WHat is infusoria? I don't have
                                                                                                                                                                      > another tank so I can't remove the female. Last time there was not
                                                                                                                                                                      > trouble with her... One problem is that I put in feeder fish hours
                                                                                                                                                                      > before they started so now I can only hope they will be eaten soon.
                                                                                                                                                                      > I am going to have to try just using the fry proctector...
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > On 5/7/05, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > The male will guard the fry. The female needs to be removed. I wouldn't
                                                                                                                                                                      > > remove the fry unless there are other fish that might eat them. Try liquid
                                                                                                                                                                      > > fry food for egg layers. Then bbs when they are big enough to handle it.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Most egg layer's fry are born with a yolk sac to provide food but this is
                                                                                                                                                                      > > only good for 24 to 48 hours. I would care for the fry the same way I would
                                                                                                                                                                      > > for labyrinth fish fry. Liquid fry food, infursoria, etc. They are in the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > perch family, not a labyrinth fish.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Harry
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Andreas <andreas1120@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Hey all
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > My leaf fish leayed eggs yesterday and the male is busy guarding them.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Last time they did this they where fertilized and hatched, but then
                                                                                                                                                                      > > they died. How do I best take are of them? I got a fry container to
                                                                                                                                                                      > > keep them in, but I am not sure what to feed them, and of course they
                                                                                                                                                                      > > are so hard to see it's hard to see if they are eating.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > If anyone wants pictured of them doing a great mouth display, and the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > female laying eggs. just let me know.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > any advice is appreciated
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      > > .
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                      > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                      > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      > > .
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                      > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                      > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11122 From: harry perry Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Leaf Fish (Monocyrrus Polycanthus) are breeding/fantastic/Andre
                                                                                                                                                                      Liquid fry food can be bought at your lfs. Infursoria is made by you. Go to  
                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.karlin1.com/firstfood.htm for more info. The male will take care of the fry, if the female isn't trying to eat them, leave her be. There are many ways to feed very tiny fish. Ground egg yolk from hard boiled eggs works. As does grinding flake food. Try hard to find the liquid fry food, Wardens make it for one. This really worked for me. You need to move fast on this. Time is running out for your fry. Also try Google for advice. Try first food for fish.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Harry 
                                                                                                                                                                      Andreas <andreas1120@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      Oh sorry I misunderstood... the male will guard even the fry? So I
                                                                                                                                                                      could just leave them in there as long as I fidn a way to feed them...

                                                                                                                                                                      Andreas

                                                                                                                                                                      On 5/7/05, Andreas <andreas1120@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > What are examples of liquid food?  WHat is infusoria?  I don't have
                                                                                                                                                                      > another tank so I can't remove the female.  Last time there was not
                                                                                                                                                                      > trouble with her...   One problem is that I put in feeder fish hours
                                                                                                                                                                      > before they started so now I can only hope they will be eaten soon.
                                                                                                                                                                      > I am going to have to try just using the fry proctector...
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > On 5/7/05, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > The male will guard the fry. The female needs to be removed. I wouldn't
                                                                                                                                                                      > > remove the fry unless there are other fish that might eat them. Try liquid
                                                                                                                                                                      > > fry food for egg layers. Then bbs when they are big enough to handle it.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Most egg layer's fry are born with a yolk sac to provide food but this is
                                                                                                                                                                      > > only good for 24 to 48 hours. I would care for the fry the same way I would
                                                                                                                                                                      > > for labyrinth fish fry. Liquid fry food, infursoria, etc. They are in the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > perch family, not a labyrinth fish.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Harry
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Andreas <andreas1120@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Hey all
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > My leaf fish leayed eggs yesterday and the male is busy guarding them.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Last time they did this they where fertilized and hatched, but then
                                                                                                                                                                      > > they died.   How do I best take are of them?  I got a fry container to
                                                                                                                                                                      > > keep them in, but I am not sure what to feed them, and of course they
                                                                                                                                                                      > > are so hard to see it's hard to see if they are eating.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > If anyone wants pictured of them doing a great mouth display, and the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > female laying eggs. just let me know.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >   any advice is appreciated
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >   Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      > > .
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                      > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                      > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      > > .
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                      > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                      > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      >


                                                                                                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      .
                                                                                                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11123 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                      First of all, taxonomy is not a joke. It is a way of classifying every
                                                                                                                                                                      living thing on this planet (at least on this planet for now). Secondly, the
                                                                                                                                                                      names are NOT Latin. They are a mix of Latin, Greek, and many other
                                                                                                                                                                      languages. They are known as scientific names, and they follow fairly strict
                                                                                                                                                                      rules when naming an organism. Thirdly, unlike common names, say, neon
                                                                                                                                                                      tetra, for example, which may actually refer to several distinct fish, there
                                                                                                                                                                      is a mechanism for tracking name changes called synonyms. _Paracheirodon
                                                                                                                                                                      innesi_ is the "real" neon tetra, named after William T. Innes, BTW, was
                                                                                                                                                                      formerly known as _Hyphessobrycon innesi_. The change of the scientific name
                                                                                                                                                                      was made when further studies showed that the fish differed from those other
                                                                                                                                                                      fish in the _Hyphessobrycon_ genus to rate a genus of their own. All nice
                                                                                                                                                                      and neat, the whole thing is.

                                                                                                                                                                      Oh, what are the other fish that have been commonly known as neon tetras?
                                                                                                                                                                      _Paracheirodon axelrodi_ is one, mostly known as the cardinal tetra (and
                                                                                                                                                                      named after Herbert Axelrod, and _Paracheirodon simulans_, which is also
                                                                                                                                                                      known as the green neon tetra because it lacks any red coloration.

                                                                                                                                                                      The betta you refer to is a whole other story. The ones people think of are
                                                                                                                                                                      the long finned variety with a great number of colors to chose from. These
                                                                                                                                                                      are descended from a "wild" stock of fish that are multi-colored, and have
                                                                                                                                                                      short fins and rounded tails and, yes, you can actually get those fish also.
                                                                                                                                                                      They have as much right to be called bettas as the fancy varieties do also.
                                                                                                                                                                      Are they the same fish? They sure are, but that steel blue betta you bought
                                                                                                                                                                      in a bowl at the fish place has been bred from that wild stock to look as
                                                                                                                                                                      they do. However, to the scientist they are the same fish, probably not even
                                                                                                                                                                      worth a sub species designation.

                                                                                                                                                                      If you are serious about this hobby, you will learn about scientific names.
                                                                                                                                                                      Some fish are only known by scientific names in the hobby--there is no
                                                                                                                                                                      common name for them.

                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                      ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 1:52 AM
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters


                                                                                                                                                                      Taxonomy is a joke, in my opinion. If common names are removed and all
                                                                                                                                                                      fish are labeled by latin names, the entire aquarium industry will quickly
                                                                                                                                                                      die as people are turned off by the fact that they don't know what they are
                                                                                                                                                                      buying. NOBODY SPEAKS LATIN BUT OLD RICH GUYS (doctors, biologists, and
                                                                                                                                                                      priests)! Who wants to buy a b. splendens? People want bettas.

                                                                                                                                                                      :)
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      L numbers have been around since 1988. They were introduced in anticipation
                                                                                                                                                                      of a large number of undescribed species of Loricarid catfish that were
                                                                                                                                                                      being discovered. The introduction of L numbers was to avoid giving "trade
                                                                                                                                                                      (common) names" to the species, a very variable and subjective way of naming
                                                                                                                                                                      fish. A species can have 3, 4, 5 or more common names. I've seen the same
                                                                                                                                                                      fish with a new common name on a subsequent shipment from the wholesaler to
                                                                                                                                                                      a shop.
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11124 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                      Bit confusion here I think.

                                                                                                                                                                      Dissolved CO2 in the water is governed partially by PH or vice versa but that is when the equilibrium between the atmosphere and water is not maintained. When we talk about calculating how much CO2 is in the water, this CO2 we are talking about is the one that is in transition between CO2+H2O and the carbonic acid. The pure Co2 dissolving capacity of water is not really 100% governed by PH I think. Temperature however can have a major governing factor on this.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      I am not a chemist either so I am also looking forward to everyone’s views on this J

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                                                      From: Fish Bloke [mailto:fishbloke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: 09 April 2005 06:08
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Fair enough.  I am here to learn, can you expand.  Was everything I said wrong, or just that bit.  :^)

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Phil.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                      From: Liz Wilhite

                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 1:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      On Apr 8, 2005 7:22 PM, Fish Bloke <fishbloke@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      I am no chemist, but I think the idea of pH having a bearing on how much CO2 water can hold is wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      I am a Ph.D. chemist.  You are dead wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Liz


                                                                                                                                                                       



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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11125 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                                                                      Message

                                                                                                                                                                      Phil,

                                                                                                                                                                      In a way you are correct. In a heavily planted tank, plants will very soon eat up the CO2 that has been dissolved by atmosphere but what I am trying to say is, that what if we keep replenishing this very CO2 that plants have eaten up?

                                                                                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                                                      From: Fish Bloke [mailto:fishbloke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: 09 April 2005 03:23
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      The theory of replicating natural CO2 levels in our aquariums would probably result in very slow growth.  In nature, fully aquatic plants are few and far between, often with water running over them contantly.  This means they have a huge reservoir of nutrients, including C02.  If we replicated these levels in our aquaria, the plants would strip them out probably within a day or so (maybe less).

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      The idea of agitating water surface to bring in more CO2 will work to an extent, but in heavily planted tanks the use of C02 will outstrip the aquariums ability to replace it.  To keep plant growth exponential, we provide elevated lighting, nutrients and CO2.  Personally, I have never seen pearling on a tank without CO2, even with excell.  You may see continued pearly as the plants may store excess carbon for later use.  I expect this will cease before long.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      I am no chemist, but I think the idea of pH having a bearing on how much CO2 water can hold is wrong.  In water CO2 is carbonic acid.  At a higher pH, carbonic acid would be used up faster as it reacts with the hydroxide ions.  The effect of the carbonic acid would of course drop pH, relative to how much CO2 you are dissolving into the water.  There is a direct relationship between pH, CO2 and alkalinity, you can find tables on the net that let you calculate the relative amounts of each.  Yes, temperature and atmospheric pressure would have an effect, but probably not worth worrying about.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      The effect of seeing less algae when you have high CO2 levels is because the plants are better able to uptake the available nutrients, therefore out competing the algae.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Cheers,

                                                                                                                                                                      Phil.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       



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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11126 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory - Update

                                                                                                                                                                      Well, this is the update.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      It has been more then a month since I stopped CO2 to that tank and the situation now is:

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      I do not get any algae. Very little GSA on the side and front glass, Plants are still growing out of control. With the same light intensity, even Myriophyllum is growing great.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      When I switched off CO2, I got a little problem with green spot algae (GSA) but that was for only a couple of weeks. The tank now seemed to have balanced itself out. Earlier, I was getting nitrate deficiencies (I mean in the test kits… not on the plants) by the end of 1 week. Now My nitrates deplete below 10 after 2 weeks.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Also, since I am creating a lot of surface agitation (powerhead placed at 45 degree angle 3” below the surface and a spray bar attached to a 1500LPH canister), the surface scum problem is way gone. Fish feel a lot better as they are never deprived of oxygen. I was getting BGA at a few spots on the gravel and sides of a filter which is gone.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Your comments and views on this please J

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                                                                                      Ps: I am not aware as to how many people are following this thread so I have included the original post in it

                                                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      From: Nimish Mathur [mailto:nimmat4@...]
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: 31 March 2005 20:51
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Guys,

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      I have been thinking about a theory and need some help validating it:

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      We all know that CO2 is well soluble in water. We try to push CO2 in the water for the plants to be able to take. Now the plants do not really care how much ppm CO2 we push in as long as they have it available to them all the time? Rite?

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Atmosphere has 0.3% CO2 so Ideally if we have a waterfall, the amount of CO2 dissolved in the water will also be 0.3% of all dissolved gasses? Osmotic pressure or something similar to maintain same concentration in both mediums? Does this defy any science? Since we can have a bit of CO2 in the water and have the capability to replenish this small amount, is this quantity enough for plants or not? What happens in streams in rivers? I find it difficult to digest the idea of rotting leaves and bacterial processes in the soil creating enough CO2 that plants need, rather, atmospheric dissolved CO2 as the water flows sounds more reasonable.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      So if all of the above is true, is it possible that we could have a lush planted medium – high light tank with a couple of spraybars that keep replenishing the 0.3% CO2 back in the water so the plants never really starve of the CO2? I am sure if atmospheric CO2 is dissolved in the water at small quantities, the plants will really never starve.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Feedback appreciated J

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       



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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11127 From: Patrick, the AmericanFishGuy Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
                                                                                                                                                                      "First of all, taxonomy is not a joke."
                                                                                                                                                                      You go on to prove my point...

                                                                                                                                                                      "Thirdly, unlike common names, say, neon tetra, for example, which
                                                                                                                                                                      may actually refer to several distinct fish, there is a mechanism for
                                                                                                                                                                      tracking name changes called synonyms. _Paracheirodon innesi_ is
                                                                                                                                                                      the "real" neon tetra, named after William T. Innes, BTW, was
                                                                                                                                                                      formerly known as _Hyphessobrycon innesi_. The change of the
                                                                                                                                                                      scientific name was made when further studies showed that the fish
                                                                                                                                                                      differed from those other fish in the _Hyphessobrycon_ genus to rate
                                                                                                                                                                      a genus of their own."
                                                                                                                                                                      This is why it is a joke. Every zoologist wants a species named
                                                                                                                                                                      after him to the point that a guppy that looks a little different is
                                                                                                                                                                      an "Endler's Livebearer", but is genetically a guppy. That would be
                                                                                                                                                                      like an alien landing in Africa, then going to Europe, then North
                                                                                                                                                                      America, and then to Asia, and thinking they had found four new
                                                                                                                                                                      species of intelligent life, when we are all one species with
                                                                                                                                                                      different skin colors. If this was really serious, the taxonomy
                                                                                                                                                                      would be based on common names and only on genetics. A neon tetra
                                                                                                                                                                      would have the species name "neon", and any fish that looked like
                                                                                                                                                                      a "neon" would be a color type of "neon".

                                                                                                                                                                      "All nice and neat, the whole thing is."
                                                                                                                                                                      I just busted that idea. The sytem has serious problems, too
                                                                                                                                                                      many species names are given to the same type of lifeform, and
                                                                                                                                                                      scientists want the fame of having their own species at the expense
                                                                                                                                                                      of science.

                                                                                                                                                                      "Oh, what are the other fish that have been commonly known as neon
                                                                                                                                                                      tetras? _Paracheirodon axelrodi_ is one, mostly known as the cardinal
                                                                                                                                                                      tetra (and named after Herbert Axelrod, and _Paracheirodon simulans_,
                                                                                                                                                                      which is also known as the green neon tetra because it lacks any red
                                                                                                                                                                      coloration."
                                                                                                                                                                      And if any two of those fish can be bred and produce breedible
                                                                                                                                                                      offspring, they are infact one species with two color-types.

                                                                                                                                                                      "If you are serious about this hobby, you will learn about scientific
                                                                                                                                                                      names. Some fish are only known by scientific names in the hobby--
                                                                                                                                                                      there is no common name for them."
                                                                                                                                                                      That is just silly. First, fishkeeping is not a hobby to me. It
                                                                                                                                                                      is part of my life. Feeding my dog is not a hobby for me, so why
                                                                                                                                                                      should fishkeeping be downgraded to hobby? No serious fishkeeper has
                                                                                                                                                                      time for such wasted exertion, they are enjoying their fish.
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11128 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: New poll for AquaticLife
                                                                                                                                                                      Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
                                                                                                                                                                      AquaticLife group:

                                                                                                                                                                      How do you know your fish by name?

                                                                                                                                                                      o Common name only for most of your fish.
                                                                                                                                                                      o Common name only for all of your fish.
                                                                                                                                                                      o Both names for most of your fish.
                                                                                                                                                                      o Scientific name only for most of your fish.
                                                                                                                                                                      o Scientific name only for all of your fish.


                                                                                                                                                                      To vote, please visit the following web page:
                                                                                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/surveys?id=1679995

                                                                                                                                                                      Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
                                                                                                                                                                      not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
                                                                                                                                                                      web site listed above.

                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11129 From: paul helms Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: a cory question
                                                                                                                                                                      my female albinos, green, and peppered have been at
                                                                                                                                                                      least double the mass of the males. bigger around and
                                                                                                                                                                      longer. maybe not 2x the length, but overall mass 2x
                                                                                                                                                                      --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > I don't believe that is true, Paul. Some examples
                                                                                                                                                                      > culled from PlanetCatfish
                                                                                                                                                                      > and fishbase.org:
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Corydoras aeneus_ (bronze cory, aeneus), males 65
                                                                                                                                                                      > mm, females 75 mm
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Corydoras adolfoi_ (Adolfo's cory), to 50 mm.
                                                                                                                                                                      > Females are slightly larger
                                                                                                                                                                      > than males and fuller when viewed from above (this
                                                                                                                                                                      > is fuller from above is
                                                                                                                                                                      > generally true with corys.)
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Corydoras arcuatus_ (skunk cory) 4 cm. No specific
                                                                                                                                                                      > information of sexual
                                                                                                                                                                      > dimorphism.
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Corydoras elegans_ (elegant cory) 55 mm, the male
                                                                                                                                                                      > is smaller, less high
                                                                                                                                                                      > bodied, slender and more strikingly patterned.
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Corydoras hastatus_ 30 mm, No specific information
                                                                                                                                                                      > on sexual dimorphism.
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Corydoras julii_ (leopard cory) 5.2 cm, No specific
                                                                                                                                                                      > information on sexual
                                                                                                                                                                      > dimorphism.
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Corydoras paleatus_ (peppered cory) 70 mm, ah,
                                                                                                                                                                      > females can get considerably
                                                                                                                                                                      > large than males and possess a heavier girth.
                                                                                                                                                                      > Probably not twice the size,
                                                                                                                                                                      > though. That would have been noted.
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Corydoras panda_ (panda cory) 50 mm, no size
                                                                                                                                                                      > difference noted between the
                                                                                                                                                                      > sexes.
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Corydoras punctatus_ (spotted cory) 60 mm, no
                                                                                                                                                                      > sexual dimorphism noted.
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Corydoras pygmaeus_ (pygmy cory) 28 mm, no size
                                                                                                                                                                      > differential noted.
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Corydoras reticulatus_ (reticulated corydoras) 6.1
                                                                                                                                                                      > cm, no sexual
                                                                                                                                                                      > dimorphism noted.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > I chose them semi randomly, picking those I think
                                                                                                                                                                      > many people would be
                                                                                                                                                                      > familiar with.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                      > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                      > Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 11:23 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] a cory question
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > female cori's are generally 2-3 times larger than
                                                                                                                                                                      > the
                                                                                                                                                                      > males.
                                                                                                                                                                      > --- Anne <md_gustoby@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > I have a huge(width wise) cory in my 10 gal. I
                                                                                                                                                                      > mean,
                                                                                                                                                                      > > this is a chubby fella/gal, as round as long! Not
                                                                                                                                                                      > > sure. There are a total of 4 cories and 2 ottos in
                                                                                                                                                                      > > that tank but 'boss Hog is without a doubt, the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > largest and less timid. There is also a betta
                                                                                                                                                                      > > prowling
                                                                                                                                                                      > > - gets along great with the others (I've even
                                                                                                                                                                      > found
                                                                                                                                                                      > > all of them in a cave together) Question, how can
                                                                                                                                                                      > > you
                                                                                                                                                                      > > sex a cory? And if the cory were to lay eggs,
                                                                                                                                                                      > where
                                                                                                                                                                      > > would they be? And would the betta eat the eggs?
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Guess
                                                                                                                                                                      > > it's a couple of questions. lol
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Anne
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >




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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11130 From: paul helms Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      fruits, sseds, nuts, and any damn thing that swims by
                                                                                                                                                                      it. so as i said omnivore!
                                                                                                                                                                      --- Trevor <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > In the wild, their main diet is actually fruit,
                                                                                                                                                                      > seeds, and nuts. It
                                                                                                                                                                      > sounds to me like an herbivore. ;)
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      > <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Pacu's Herbivores????? That is a new one to me,
                                                                                                                                                                      > since they are in
                                                                                                                                                                      > the same family, I believe and I could be wrong, as
                                                                                                                                                                      > priannah (spelling
                                                                                                                                                                      > sucks tonight, sorry!). In fact, they are very much
                                                                                                                                                                      > a carnivore.
                                                                                                                                                                      > Many breeders I know keep them or Oscars for when
                                                                                                                                                                      > they cull their fry,
                                                                                                                                                                      > and use the fry as food for them.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > This was back before I knew better. :) When I
                                                                                                                                                                      > bought the pacu, it was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > the same size as the tiger barbs I had. When it
                                                                                                                                                                      > quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > other fish, I didn't think it would eat them -
                                                                                                                                                                      > pacus are supposed to be
                                                                                                                                                                      > > herbivores, after all.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal.
                                                                                                                                                                      > tank he
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > because he had gotten big enough that he was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > the tank (as well as the other fish - I
                                                                                                                                                                      > actually
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > Here's a photo that might help.he seems to
                                                                                                                                                                      > be
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the
                                                                                                                                                                      > Hilton.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > whole thing was given away.i thought they
                                                                                                                                                                      > would
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > have enough room. Plants are good hiding
                                                                                                                                                                      > places
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > rock
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > with the hole in it.but back to what can I
                                                                                                                                                                      > do for
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > him Emily
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Please delete this line and everything below it
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                                                                                                                                                                      > > .
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                      > that is not
                                                                                                                                                                      > important to the reply and if changing the topic of
                                                                                                                                                                      > the original
                                                                                                                                                                      > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject
                                                                                                                                                                      > (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                      > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help
                                                                                                                                                                      > in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11131 From: paul helms Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                                      the industry standard was 2 wtts/gallon
                                                                                                                                                                      it has recently been raised to 3-5watts/gallon
                                                                                                                                                                      --- FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > WOW 400watts of heater in a 55 gallon tank....
                                                                                                                                                                      > You could get away with a single 200 watt heater in
                                                                                                                                                                      > my opinion. I'd use the
                                                                                                                                                                      > Pro-Heat as I don't really care for the Via-Aqua
                                                                                                                                                                      > Glass
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > of course this is just my opinion.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > 100 watt. For 5 to 20 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      > 200 watt. For 20 to 40 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      > 300 watt. For 40 to 75 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      > 400watt. For 75 to 120 gallon aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > rob
                                                                                                                                                                      > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                      > USA
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > In a message dated 5/7/2005 6:35:43 AM US Eastern
                                                                                                                                                                      > Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                                      > muffin4494@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Hi ok I put my sand in my tank. Now I need to
                                                                                                                                                                      > know about the heater.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > I have 2 hearter. 1 is viaAqua glass heating, and
                                                                                                                                                                      > the other is Pro
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Heat IC heater. Both of them is 200W. I need to
                                                                                                                                                                      > know i If i have to
                                                                                                                                                                      > > got more heater for my 55 ga tank. And when should
                                                                                                                                                                      > I keep them in my 55
                                                                                                                                                                      > > ga tank. Thank you for helping me Charlene
                                                                                                                                                                      > muffin4494@...
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >



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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11132 From: paul helms Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      except that a pacu will take bites out of anything in
                                                                                                                                                                      its midst, unlike an oscar who will only generally eat
                                                                                                                                                                      what fits in its mouth.
                                                                                                                                                                      --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > Nan, In the scientific community, Pacu's are
                                                                                                                                                                      > categorized as
                                                                                                                                                                      > Herbivores; their diet consisting mainly of plant
                                                                                                                                                                      > material. While
                                                                                                                                                                      > they are in the same family as Piranhas, that family
                                                                                                                                                                      > also includes
                                                                                                                                                                      > Silver Dollars (Piranha-like herbivores) as well as
                                                                                                                                                                      > the Neon,
                                                                                                                                                                      > Cardinal and all other community tank Tetras. They
                                                                                                                                                                      > are also related
                                                                                                                                                                      > to freshwater Trout and Salmon, and yes, the feared
                                                                                                                                                                      > African Tiger
                                                                                                                                                                      > Fish (Hydrocynus) of which there are about six
                                                                                                                                                                      > species in the genus,
                                                                                                                                                                      > one getting to 12 feet and known to pull African
                                                                                                                                                                      > fisherman into the
                                                                                                                                                                      > river -- by the legs, not by the line! Like most
                                                                                                                                                                      > other fish, Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                      > are opportunists and if a fish will fit in its mouth
                                                                                                                                                                      > it will eat it.
                                                                                                                                                                      > In that respect you could say its an Omnivore, but
                                                                                                                                                                      > again, most any
                                                                                                                                                                      > Herbivore will take in a fish if its small enough to
                                                                                                                                                                      > fit in its
                                                                                                                                                                      > mouth. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > \
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      > <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Pacu's Herbivores????? That is a new one to me,
                                                                                                                                                                      > since they are in
                                                                                                                                                                      > the same family, I believe and I could be wrong, as
                                                                                                                                                                      > priannah
                                                                                                                                                                      > (spelling sucks tonight, sorry!). In fact, they are
                                                                                                                                                                      > very much a
                                                                                                                                                                      > carnivore. Many breeders I know keep them or Oscars
                                                                                                                                                                      > for when they
                                                                                                                                                                      > cull their fry, and use the fry as food for them.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > This was back before I knew better. :) When I
                                                                                                                                                                      > bought the pacu, it
                                                                                                                                                                      > was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > the same size as the tiger barbs I had. When it
                                                                                                                                                                      > quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > other fish, I didn't think it would eat them -
                                                                                                                                                                      > pacus are supposed
                                                                                                                                                                      > to be
                                                                                                                                                                      > > herbivores, after all.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal.
                                                                                                                                                                      > tank he
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > because he had gotten big enough that he was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > the tank (as well as the other fish - I
                                                                                                                                                                      > actually
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > Here's a photo that might help.he seems to
                                                                                                                                                                      > be
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the
                                                                                                                                                                      > Hilton.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > whole thing was given away.i thought they
                                                                                                                                                                      > would
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > have enough room. Plants are good hiding
                                                                                                                                                                      > places
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > rock
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > with the hole in it.but back to what can I
                                                                                                                                                                      > do for
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > him Emily
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                                                                                      > when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                      > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      > > .
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                      > that is not
                                                                                                                                                                      > important to the reply and if changing the topic of
                                                                                                                                                                      > the original
                                                                                                                                                                      > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject
                                                                                                                                                                      > (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                      > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help
                                                                                                                                                                      > in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                                                                                      > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                                      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11133 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Leaf Fish (Monocyrrus Polycanthus) are breeding
                                                                                                                                                                      Would love to see pics :-)
                                                                                                                                                                      email to FortWaynefish@...


                                                                                                                                                                      I think you have gotten some great Info already, For first foods. I'd try finding Liquuid fry food  myself.
                                                                                                                                                                      It may take awhile but if your fish are spawning and laying eggs  in time you will be able to keep them alive.

                                                                                                                                                                      Egg Yolks can be very very messy. Grind up 1/10th of a hard boiled egg yolk, add water and mix it up into a runny yellow liquid. A tiny eye drop will go a long way for itty bitty fish.
                                                                                                                                                                      If you over feed though it will get messy and can foul your water very quickly. So be prepared to feed tiny amounts multiple times daily ( 2-3 times a day ) or plan on water changes every other day.


                                                                                                                                                                      rob
                                                                                                                                                                      Indiana


                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/7/2005 3:54:52 PM US Eastern Standard Time, andreas1120@... writes:



                                                                                                                                                                      Hey all

                                                                                                                                                                      My leaf fish leayed eggs yesterday and the male is busy guarding them.
                                                                                                                                                                      Last time they did this they where fertilized and hatched, but then
                                                                                                                                                                      they died.   How do I best take are of them?  I got a fry container to
                                                                                                                                                                      keep them in, but I am not sure what to feed them, and of course they
                                                                                                                                                                      are so hard to see it's hard to see if they are eating.

                                                                                                                                                                      If anyone wants pictured of them doing a great mouth display, and the
                                                                                                                                                                      female laying eggs. just let me know.

                                                                                                                                                                        any advice is appreciated

                                                                                                                                                                        Andreas


                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11134 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
                                                                                                                                                                      Interesting that you should say that an Endler's is genetically a guppy. So
                                                                                                                                                                      far as I am aware, this sort of study has not been done, and neither has the
                                                                                                                                                                      fish been described, or determined to be a member of an already extant
                                                                                                                                                                      species. Perhaps it may be true that every zoologist wants a species named
                                                                                                                                                                      after themselves, however they cannot name a species after themselves if
                                                                                                                                                                      they are describing it. To have a species or genus named after a person is
                                                                                                                                                                      an honorific, and it is not done lightly. Both Innes and Axelrod have had
                                                                                                                                                                      fish named after them to honor their work within the hobby. Pierre Brichard
                                                                                                                                                                      has also been honored 11 times because of the work he has done in Lake
                                                                                                                                                                      Tanganyika including the well known _Neolamprologus brichardi_ and
                                                                                                                                                                      _Synodontis brichardi_.

                                                                                                                                                                      "I just busted that idea. The sytem has serious problems, too many species
                                                                                                                                                                      names are given to the same type of lifeform, and scientists want the fame
                                                                                                                                                                      of having their own species at the expense of science." Unfortunately, you
                                                                                                                                                                      are wrong here. Before a description and a name are accepted, the work done
                                                                                                                                                                      is reviewed and torn apart and put back together again, particularly if a
                                                                                                                                                                      new genus is being created for the fish or fishes in question. There is a
                                                                                                                                                                      problem here when someone who is well known in the hobby does the work, and
                                                                                                                                                                      hobbyists accept it because this person did it, prior to the scientific
                                                                                                                                                                      review. This type of behavior only adds to the confusion, especially if the
                                                                                                                                                                      work is not accepted. This review can take years to complete before it is
                                                                                                                                                                      accepted.

                                                                                                                                                                      So, if you take and breed a horse and a donkey, and end up with a mule, then
                                                                                                                                                                      both the horse and donkey are the same species? I think not. There is very
                                                                                                                                                                      little genetically that differentiates species. Something like 97 or 98% of
                                                                                                                                                                      our genes are shared with chimpanzees. The group of fish known as swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                      and the group of fish known as platys are two different fish. Often they are
                                                                                                                                                                      not even found in the same type of habitat. However, they can breed and
                                                                                                                                                                      produce young. Does this mean that the platy is a swordtail that just lacks
                                                                                                                                                                      the tail? Or is the swordtail a platy with extended rays in the lower part
                                                                                                                                                                      of the caudal fin?

                                                                                                                                                                      If you are as serious about this as you claim to be here, then why don't you
                                                                                                                                                                      know this stuff. Hobby is a generic term that covers the neophyte to the
                                                                                                                                                                      grand master. All I know who are serious hobbyists have no problems with
                                                                                                                                                                      using scientific names, yet are knowledgeable enough to tone it down for
                                                                                                                                                                      those who are not at their level in the hobby. They don't consider learning
                                                                                                                                                                      the science behind what they do to be a wasted exertion. Rather it gives
                                                                                                                                                                      them a better understanding of what they are doing, and how things fit all
                                                                                                                                                                      together. While some are scientists in their own right, mostly in fields not
                                                                                                                                                                      related to fish keeping, most are not. They are plain old ordinary people
                                                                                                                                                                      who had a tough time with some of the stuff they are now fluent in while in
                                                                                                                                                                      high school. I know a guy from CT who is a tow truck operator. He knows his
                                                                                                                                                                      fish, and he can talk water chemistry with the best water chemist and both
                                                                                                                                                                      would understand what the other is saying. I know another serious aquarist
                                                                                                                                                                      from NJ who holds a doctorate in a biological field (I'm not sure which
                                                                                                                                                                      one), and yet he has learned how to talk fish with all but the newest
                                                                                                                                                                      neophyte. (It did not happen overnight, it took him years to learn how to do
                                                                                                                                                                      this.) I know a chemist from Pfizer who can spew scientific names with the
                                                                                                                                                                      best of them, and then sit down and tell a youngster how to set up his first
                                                                                                                                                                      tank. The science behind the hobby is very important. It is not something to
                                                                                                                                                                      be shoved aside. If you are serious, you will learn it. However, if you goal
                                                                                                                                                                      is simply to have a nice looking tank in the living room or family room that
                                                                                                                                                                      you can enjoy, you don't need to know a lot, just enough to keep it going
                                                                                                                                                                      and working smoothly. You don't need to get into the intricacies of what is
                                                                                                                                                                      named what and why, or the number of synonyms a fish may have, or keep up
                                                                                                                                                                      with the latest scientific knowledge about your favorite fish or fishes.

                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of Patrick, the AmericanFishGuy
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 8:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke

                                                                                                                                                                      "First of all, taxonomy is not a joke."
                                                                                                                                                                      You go on to prove my point...

                                                                                                                                                                      "Thirdly, unlike common names, say, neon tetra, for example, which
                                                                                                                                                                      may actually refer to several distinct fish, there is a mechanism for
                                                                                                                                                                      tracking name changes called synonyms. _Paracheirodon innesi_ is
                                                                                                                                                                      the "real" neon tetra, named after William T. Innes, BTW, was
                                                                                                                                                                      formerly known as _Hyphessobrycon innesi_. The change of the
                                                                                                                                                                      scientific name was made when further studies showed that the fish
                                                                                                                                                                      differed from those other fish in the _Hyphessobrycon_ genus to rate
                                                                                                                                                                      a genus of their own."
                                                                                                                                                                      This is why it is a joke. Every zoologist wants a species named
                                                                                                                                                                      after him to the point that a guppy that looks a little different is
                                                                                                                                                                      an "Endler's Livebearer", but is genetically a guppy. That would be
                                                                                                                                                                      like an alien landing in Africa, then going to Europe, then North
                                                                                                                                                                      America, and then to Asia, and thinking they had found four new
                                                                                                                                                                      species of intelligent life, when we are all one species with
                                                                                                                                                                      different skin colors. If this was really serious, the taxonomy
                                                                                                                                                                      would be based on common names and only on genetics. A neon tetra
                                                                                                                                                                      would have the species name "neon", and any fish that looked like
                                                                                                                                                                      a "neon" would be a color type of "neon".

                                                                                                                                                                      "All nice and neat, the whole thing is."
                                                                                                                                                                      I just busted that idea. The sytem has serious problems, too
                                                                                                                                                                      many species names are given to the same type of lifeform, and
                                                                                                                                                                      scientists want the fame of having their own species at the expense
                                                                                                                                                                      of science.

                                                                                                                                                                      "Oh, what are the other fish that have been commonly known as neon
                                                                                                                                                                      tetras? _Paracheirodon axelrodi_ is one, mostly known as the cardinal
                                                                                                                                                                      tetra (and named after Herbert Axelrod, and _Paracheirodon simulans_,
                                                                                                                                                                      which is also known as the green neon tetra because it lacks any red
                                                                                                                                                                      coloration."
                                                                                                                                                                      And if any two of those fish can be bred and produce breedible
                                                                                                                                                                      offspring, they are infact one species with two color-types.

                                                                                                                                                                      "If you are serious about this hobby, you will learn about scientific
                                                                                                                                                                      names. Some fish are only known by scientific names in the hobby--
                                                                                                                                                                      there is no common name for them."
                                                                                                                                                                      That is just silly. First, fishkeeping is not a hobby to me. It
                                                                                                                                                                      is part of my life. Feeding my dog is not a hobby for me, so why
                                                                                                                                                                      should fishkeeping be downgraded to hobby? No serious fishkeeper has
                                                                                                                                                                      time for such wasted exertion, they are enjoying their fish.
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11135 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: WAS RE: Hi again I ne.. (HEATERS )
                                                                                                                                                                      I quoted a Brand name Heater companies suggestions on this.  ( wattage per gallon ) 

                                                                                                                                                                      Myself i have a 200W in a 75 as a main heater and a 100 watt backup.. My 55 gallon tanks have 150Watt heaters, and they all work great. I think the Industry standard is looking for more watts because it means more $$ in there pockets...

                                                                                                                                                                      I ran (2) 75 watt heaters in a 55 gallon tank for almost 4 years with no problems, but in the move I replaced all my heaters as they where getting old.

                                                                                                                                                                      Still have them as backups someplace in this Jungle of airline, and extension cords  LOL But My room stays pretty constant in the lower 70's-mid 70's  all year long. And I run all my tanks at an average of 75* F

                                                                                                                                                                      rob
                                                                                                                                                                      Indiana


                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/7/2005 8:48:08 PM US Eastern Standard Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > 100 watt. For 5 to 20 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      > 200 watt. For 20 to 40 gallon aquariums.           
                                                                                                                                                                      > 300 watt. For 40 to 75 gallon aquariums.   
                                                                                                                                                                      > 400watt. For 75 to 120 gallon aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                      >    
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > rob
                                                                                                                                                                      > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                      > USA
                                                                                                                                                                      >


                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11136 From: paul helms Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      pacus are not actually tetras, but are in the same
                                                                                                                                                                      family. they are charaacoids which encompases 6
                                                                                                                                                                      families. the tetras are in the family or characidae,
                                                                                                                                                                      while pacus are serrasalmidae, with pirranhas and
                                                                                                                                                                      silver dolars. while you may see them listed as
                                                                                                                                                                      herbivores, there are dozens of fish sold as pacus,
                                                                                                                                                                      just so that everyone is aware. red bellied pacus are
                                                                                                                                                                      not technically "pacus" or "piranhas"they are
                                                                                                                                                                      somewhere in between.
                                                                                                                                                                      --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                                                      <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > Pacus are tetras, not Cichlids, and they are in
                                                                                                                                                                      > fact mostly herbivores,
                                                                                                                                                                      > but will eat small fish. Like all large fish, it
                                                                                                                                                                      > will eat whatever is given
                                                                                                                                                                      > to it, but from what I've read, in the wild they eat
                                                                                                                                                                      > mostly plants. Like
                                                                                                                                                                      > all large fish, the myth is spread that they eat
                                                                                                                                                                      > mostly meat to increase the
                                                                                                                                                                      > sale of feeder fish. They also belong in rivers,
                                                                                                                                                                      > ponds, and lakes, not
                                                                                                                                                                      > aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      > no, they are quite aggressive omnivores actually.
                                                                                                                                                                      > unlike most cichlids, they are not naturally
                                                                                                                                                                      > aggressive herbivores



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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11137 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: taxonomy is/is not a joke
                                                                                                                                                                      well said......

                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/7/2005 8:51:46 PM US Eastern Standard Time, steve@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                      If you are as serious about this as you claim to be here, then why don't you
                                                                                                                                                                      know this stuff. Hobby is a generic term that covers the neophyte to the
                                                                                                                                                                      grand master. All I know who are serious hobbyists have no problems with
                                                                                                                                                                      using scientific names, yet are knowledgeable enough to tone it down for
                                                                                                                                                                      those who are not at their level in the hobby. They don't consider learning
                                                                                                                                                                      the science behind what they do to be a wasted exertion. Rather it gives
                                                                                                                                                                      them a better understanding of what they are doing, and how things fit all
                                                                                                                                                                      together. While some are scientists in their own right, mostly in fields not
                                                                                                                                                                      related to fish keeping, most are not. They are plain old ordinary people
                                                                                                                                                                      who had a tough time with some of the stuff they are now fluent in while in
                                                                                                                                                                      high school. I know a guy from CT who is a tow truck operator. He knows his
                                                                                                                                                                      fish, and he can talk water chemistry with the best water chemist and both
                                                                                                                                                                      would understand what the other is saying. I know another serious aquarist
                                                                                                                                                                      from NJ who holds a doctorate in a biological field (I'm not sure which
                                                                                                                                                                      one), and yet he has learned how to talk fish with all but the newest
                                                                                                                                                                      neophyte. (It did not happen overnight, it took him years to learn how to do
                                                                                                                                                                      this.) I know a chemist from Pfizer who can spew scientific names with the
                                                                                                                                                                      best of them, and then sit down and tell a youngster how to set up his first
                                                                                                                                                                      tank. The science behind the hobby is very important. It is not something to
                                                                                                                                                                      be shoved aside. If you are serious, you will learn it. However, if you goal
                                                                                                                                                                      is simply to have a nice looking tank in the living room or family room that
                                                                                                                                                                      you can enjoy, you don't need to know a lot, just enough to keep it going
                                                                                                                                                                      and working smoothly. You don't need to get into the intricacies of what is
                                                                                                                                                                      named what and why, or the number of synonyms a fish may have, or keep up
                                                                                                                                                                      with the latest scientific knowledge about your favorite fish or fishes.

                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//


                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11138 From: paul helms Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
                                                                                                                                                                      here he goes again! just a point of reference. when
                                                                                                                                                                      an lfs orders endlers, they are sold as endler guppies
                                                                                                                                                                      --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                      > Interesting that you should say that an Endler's is
                                                                                                                                                                      > genetically a guppy. So
                                                                                                                                                                      > far as I am aware, this sort of study has not been
                                                                                                                                                                      > done, and neither has the
                                                                                                                                                                      > fish been described, or determined to be a member of
                                                                                                                                                                      > an already extant
                                                                                                                                                                      > species. Perhaps it may be true that every zoologist
                                                                                                                                                                      > wants a species named
                                                                                                                                                                      > after themselves, however they cannot name a species
                                                                                                                                                                      > after themselves if
                                                                                                                                                                      > they are describing it. To have a species or genus
                                                                                                                                                                      > named after a person is
                                                                                                                                                                      > an honorific, and it is not done lightly. Both Innes
                                                                                                                                                                      > and Axelrod have had
                                                                                                                                                                      > fish named after them to honor their work within the
                                                                                                                                                                      > hobby. Pierre Brichard
                                                                                                                                                                      > has also been honored 11 times because of the work
                                                                                                                                                                      > he has done in Lake
                                                                                                                                                                      > Tanganyika including the well known _Neolamprologus
                                                                                                                                                                      > brichardi_ and
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Synodontis brichardi_.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > "I just busted that idea. The sytem has serious
                                                                                                                                                                      > problems, too many species
                                                                                                                                                                      > names are given to the same type of lifeform, and
                                                                                                                                                                      > scientists want the fame
                                                                                                                                                                      > of having their own species at the expense of
                                                                                                                                                                      > science." Unfortunately, you
                                                                                                                                                                      > are wrong here. Before a description and a name are
                                                                                                                                                                      > accepted, the work done
                                                                                                                                                                      > is reviewed and torn apart and put back together
                                                                                                                                                                      > again, particularly if a
                                                                                                                                                                      > new genus is being created for the fish or fishes in
                                                                                                                                                                      > question. There is a
                                                                                                                                                                      > problem here when someone who is well known in the
                                                                                                                                                                      > hobby does the work, and
                                                                                                                                                                      > hobbyists accept it because this person did it,
                                                                                                                                                                      > prior to the scientific
                                                                                                                                                                      > review. This type of behavior only adds to the
                                                                                                                                                                      > confusion, especially if the
                                                                                                                                                                      > work is not accepted. This review can take years to
                                                                                                                                                                      > complete before it is
                                                                                                                                                                      > accepted.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > So, if you take and breed a horse and a donkey, and
                                                                                                                                                                      > end up with a mule, then
                                                                                                                                                                      > both the horse and donkey are the same species? I
                                                                                                                                                                      > think not. There is very
                                                                                                                                                                      > little genetically that differentiates species.
                                                                                                                                                                      > Something like 97 or 98% of
                                                                                                                                                                      > our genes are shared with chimpanzees. The group of
                                                                                                                                                                      > fish known as swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                      > and the group of fish known as platys are two
                                                                                                                                                                      > different fish. Often they are
                                                                                                                                                                      > not even found in the same type of habitat. However,
                                                                                                                                                                      > they can breed and
                                                                                                                                                                      > produce young. Does this mean that the platy is a
                                                                                                                                                                      > swordtail that just lacks
                                                                                                                                                                      > the tail? Or is the swordtail a platy with extended
                                                                                                                                                                      > rays in the lower part
                                                                                                                                                                      > of the caudal fin?
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > If you are as serious about this as you claim to be
                                                                                                                                                                      > here, then why don't you
                                                                                                                                                                      > know this stuff. Hobby is a generic term that covers
                                                                                                                                                                      > the neophyte to the
                                                                                                                                                                      > grand master. All I know who are serious hobbyists
                                                                                                                                                                      > have no problems with
                                                                                                                                                                      > using scientific names, yet are knowledgeable enough
                                                                                                                                                                      > to tone it down for
                                                                                                                                                                      > those who are not at their level in the hobby. They
                                                                                                                                                                      > don't consider learning
                                                                                                                                                                      > the science behind what they do to be a wasted
                                                                                                                                                                      > exertion. Rather it gives
                                                                                                                                                                      > them a better understanding of what they are doing,
                                                                                                                                                                      > and how things fit all
                                                                                                                                                                      > together. While some are scientists in their own
                                                                                                                                                                      > right, mostly in fields not
                                                                                                                                                                      > related to fish keeping, most are not. They are
                                                                                                                                                                      > plain old ordinary people
                                                                                                                                                                      > who had a tough time with some of the stuff they are
                                                                                                                                                                      > now fluent in while in
                                                                                                                                                                      > high school. I know a guy from CT who is a tow truck
                                                                                                                                                                      > operator. He knows his
                                                                                                                                                                      > fish, and he can talk water chemistry with the best
                                                                                                                                                                      > water chemist and both
                                                                                                                                                                      > would understand what the other is saying. I know
                                                                                                                                                                      > another serious aquarist
                                                                                                                                                                      > from NJ who holds a doctorate in a biological field
                                                                                                                                                                      > (I'm not sure which
                                                                                                                                                                      > one), and yet he has learned how to talk fish with
                                                                                                                                                                      > all but the newest
                                                                                                                                                                      > neophyte. (It did not happen overnight, it took him
                                                                                                                                                                      > years to learn how to do
                                                                                                                                                                      > this.) I know a chemist from Pfizer who can spew
                                                                                                                                                                      > scientific names with the
                                                                                                                                                                      > best of them, and then sit down and tell a youngster
                                                                                                                                                                      > how to set up his first
                                                                                                                                                                      > tank. The science behind the hobby is very
                                                                                                                                                                      > important. It is not something to
                                                                                                                                                                      > be shoved aside. If you are serious, you will learn
                                                                                                                                                                      > it. However, if you goal
                                                                                                                                                                      > is simply to have a nice looking tank in the living
                                                                                                                                                                      > room or family room that
                                                                                                                                                                      > you can enjoy, you don't need to know a lot, just
                                                                                                                                                                      > enough to keep it going
                                                                                                                                                                      > and working smoothly. You don't need to get into the
                                                                                                                                                                      > intricacies of what is
                                                                                                                                                                      > named what and why, or the number of synonyms a fish
                                                                                                                                                                      > may have, or keep up
                                                                                                                                                                      > with the latest scientific knowledge about your
                                                                                                                                                                      > favorite fish or fishes.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                      > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      > Behalf Of Patrick, the AmericanFishGuy
                                                                                                                                                                      > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 8:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy
                                                                                                                                                                      > is/is not a joke
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > "First of all, taxonomy is not a joke."
                                                                                                                                                                      > You go on to prove my point...
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > "Thirdly, unlike common names, say, neon tetra, for
                                                                                                                                                                      > example, which
                                                                                                                                                                      > may actually refer to several distinct fish, there
                                                                                                                                                                      > is a mechanism for
                                                                                                                                                                      > tracking name changes called synonyms.
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Paracheirodon innesi_ is
                                                                                                                                                                      > the "real" neon tetra, named after William T. Innes,
                                                                                                                                                                      > BTW, was
                                                                                                                                                                      > formerly known as _Hyphessobrycon innesi_. The
                                                                                                                                                                      > change of the
                                                                                                                                                                      > scientific name was made when further studies showed
                                                                                                                                                                      > that the fish
                                                                                                                                                                      > differed from those other fish in the
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Hyphessobrycon_ genus to rate
                                                                                                                                                                      > a genus of their own."
                                                                                                                                                                      > This is why it is a joke. Every zoologist wants
                                                                                                                                                                      > a species named
                                                                                                                                                                      > after him to the point that a guppy that looks a
                                                                                                                                                                      > little different is
                                                                                                                                                                      > an "Endler's Livebearer", but is genetically a
                                                                                                                                                                      > guppy. That would be
                                                                                                                                                                      > like an alien landing in Africa, then going to
                                                                                                                                                                      > Europe, then North
                                                                                                                                                                      > America, and then to Asia, and thinking they had
                                                                                                                                                                      > found four new
                                                                                                                                                                      > species of intelligent life, when we are all one
                                                                                                                                                                      > species with
                                                                                                                                                                      > different skin colors. If this was really serious,
                                                                                                                                                                      > the taxonomy
                                                                                                                                                                      > would be based on common names and only on genetics.
                                                                                                                                                                      > A neon tetra
                                                                                                                                                                      > would have the species name "neon", and any fish
                                                                                                                                                                      > that looked like
                                                                                                                                                                      > a "neon" would be a color type of "neon".
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > "All nice and neat, the whole thing is."
                                                                                                                                                                      > I just busted that idea. The sytem has serious
                                                                                                                                                                      > problems, too
                                                                                                                                                                      > many species names are given to the same type of
                                                                                                                                                                      > lifeform, and
                                                                                                                                                                      > scientists want the fame of having their own species
                                                                                                                                                                      > at the expense
                                                                                                                                                                      > of science.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > "Oh, what are the other fish that have been commonly
                                                                                                                                                                      > known as neon
                                                                                                                                                                      > tetras? _Paracheirodon axelrodi_ is one, mostly
                                                                                                                                                                      > known as the cardinal
                                                                                                                                                                      > tetra (and named after Herbert Axelrod, and
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Paracheirodon simulans_,
                                                                                                                                                                      > which is also known as the green neon tetra because
                                                                                                                                                                      > it lacks any red
                                                                                                                                                                      > coloration."
                                                                                                                                                                      > And if any two of those fish can be bred and
                                                                                                                                                                      > produce breedible
                                                                                                                                                                      > offspring, they are infact one species with two
                                                                                                                                                                      > color-types.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > "If you are serious about this hobby, you will learn
                                                                                                                                                                      > about scientific
                                                                                                                                                                      > names. Some fish are only known by scientific names
                                                                                                                                                                      > in the hobby--
                                                                                                                                                                      > there is no common name for them."
                                                                                                                                                                      > That is just silly. First, fishkeeping is not a
                                                                                                                                                                      > hobby to me. It
                                                                                                                                                                      > is part of my life. Feeding my dog is not a hobby
                                                                                                                                                                      > for me, so why
                                                                                                                                                                      > should fishkeeping be downgraded to hobby? No
                                                                                                                                                                      > serious fishkeeper has
                                                                                                                                                                      > time for such wasted exertion, they are enjoying
                                                                                                                                                                      > their fish.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >




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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11139 From: paul helms Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                      yup....and half the time these geniuses that want to
                                                                                                                                                                      use the latin names are using the wrong ones! i don't
                                                                                                                                                                      know how many specialty fish i have ordered by
                                                                                                                                                                      scientific name and were not what the customer wanted.
                                                                                                                                                                      they try to order from pics in books which are often
                                                                                                                                                                      mislabeled. excellent point would be pacus! there are
                                                                                                                                                                      literally dozens of different fish sold as pacus
                                                                                                                                                                      --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                                                      <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > Taxonomy is a joke, in my opinion. If common
                                                                                                                                                                      > names are removed and all
                                                                                                                                                                      > fish are labeled by latin names, the entire aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                      > industry will quickly
                                                                                                                                                                      > die as people are turned off by the fact that they
                                                                                                                                                                      > don't know what they are
                                                                                                                                                                      > buying. NOBODY SPEAKS LATIN BUT OLD RICH GUYS
                                                                                                                                                                      > (doctors, biologists, and
                                                                                                                                                                      > priests)! Who wants to buy a b. splendens? People
                                                                                                                                                                      > want bettas.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > :)
                                                                                                                                                                      > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      > L numbers have been around since 1988. They were
                                                                                                                                                                      > introduced in anticipation
                                                                                                                                                                      > of a large number of undescribed species of
                                                                                                                                                                      > Loricarid catfish that were
                                                                                                                                                                      > being discovered. The introduction of L numbers was
                                                                                                                                                                      > to avoid giving "trade
                                                                                                                                                                      > (common) names" to the species, a very variable and
                                                                                                                                                                      > subjective way of naming
                                                                                                                                                                      > fish. A species can have 3, 4, 5 or more common
                                                                                                                                                                      > names. I've seen the same
                                                                                                                                                                      > fish with a new common name on a subsequent shipment
                                                                                                                                                                      > from the wholesaler to
                                                                                                                                                                      > a shop.




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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11140 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
                                                                                                                                                                          Well, Endler's and Guppies breed well together, and their offspring can also breed with each other, so they must genetically be the same fish.  Swordtails are platies with an extended fin.  They breed, and their offspring can breed, so they are genetically the same fish in my opinion.  If their offspring could not breed (like mules), they would be different species.  Breeding is the ultimate genetic test, in my opinion.  I thought I learned that in my freshman biology class in college.  I know just enough about the system to know that scientists don't all agree with it.
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11141 From: kb1dva Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: WAS RE: Hi again I ne.. (HEATERS )

                                                                                                                                                                      I use the really big zip lock bags to hold and organize that kind of stuff; you can write on the bag what it is and sort by type. I don’t mean to sound like ms organized, so I hope you don’t resent the tip  Emily

                                                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 9:56 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] WAS RE: Hi again I ne.. (HEATERS )

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      I quoted a Brand name Heater companies suggestions on this.  ( wattage per gallon ) 

                                                                                                                                                                      Myself i have a 200W in a 75 as a main heater and a 100 watt backup.. My 55 gallon tanks have 150Watt heaters, and they all work great. I think the Industry standard is looking for more watts because it means more $$ in there pockets...

                                                                                                                                                                      I ran (2) 75 watt heaters in a 55 gallon tank for almost 4 years with no problems, but in the move I replaced all my heaters as they where getting old.

                                                                                                                                                                      Still have them as backups someplace in this Jungle of airline, and extension cords  LOL But My room stays pretty constant in the lower 70's-mid 70's  all year long. And I run all my tanks at an average of 75* F

                                                                                                                                                                      rob
                                                                                                                                                                      Indiana


                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/7/2005 8:48:08 PM US Eastern Standard Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:



                                                                                                                                                                      >

                                                                                                                                                                      > 100 watt. For 5 to 20 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      > 200 watt. For 20 to 40 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                      aquariums.           
                                                                                                                                                                      > 300 watt. For 40 to 75 gallon aquariums.   
                                                                                                                                                                      > 400watt. For 75 to 120 gallon aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                      >    
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > rob
                                                                                                                                                                      > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                      > USA
                                                                                                                                                                      >





                                                                                                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      .
                                                                                                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11142 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: WAS RE: Hi again I ne.. (HEATERS )
                                                                                                                                                                      Actually, the number of watts per gallon should be determined by the
                                                                                                                                                                      difference in the ambient air temperature and the temperature at which you
                                                                                                                                                                      wish to keep your water at. The larger the difference, the more watts you
                                                                                                                                                                      need to maintain the temperature. It seems to me that someone had once
                                                                                                                                                                      worked up a table showing this, but I'll be dogoned if I can remember who or
                                                                                                                                                                      where I saw it.

                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                      ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 9:56 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] WAS RE: Hi again I ne.. (HEATERS )


                                                                                                                                                                      I quoted a Brand name Heater companies suggestions on this. ( wattage per
                                                                                                                                                                      gallon )

                                                                                                                                                                      Myself i have a 200W in a 75 as a main heater and a 100 watt backup.. My 55
                                                                                                                                                                      gallon tanks have 150Watt heaters, and they all work great. I think the
                                                                                                                                                                      Industry standard is looking for more watts because it means more $$ in
                                                                                                                                                                      there pockets...

                                                                                                                                                                      I ran (2) 75 watt heaters in a 55 gallon tank for almost 4 years with no
                                                                                                                                                                      problems, but in the move I replaced all my heaters as they where getting
                                                                                                                                                                      old.

                                                                                                                                                                      Still have them as backups someplace in this Jungle of airline, and
                                                                                                                                                                      extension cords LOL But My room stays pretty constant in the lower 70's-mid
                                                                                                                                                                      70's all year long. And I run all my tanks at an average of 75* F

                                                                                                                                                                      rob
                                                                                                                                                                      Indiana


                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/7/2005 8:48:08 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                                      wtfmorlok@... writes:




                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > 100 watt. For 5 to 20 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      > 200 watt. For 20 to 40 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      > 300 watt. For 40 to 75 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      > 400watt. For 75 to 120 gallon aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > rob
                                                                                                                                                                      > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                      > USA
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11143 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
                                                                                                                                                                      And, Paul, being in the industry, you should know that when a common name is
                                                                                                                                                                      stuck on a fish somewhere in the distribution chain, it normally sticks
                                                                                                                                                                      right down to the consumer, even if everyone else uses another common name
                                                                                                                                                                      for it.

                                                                                                                                                                      Again, if you read my post, I did not take a position on whether or not the
                                                                                                                                                                      fish known as Endler's livebearer was or was not a guppy. I merely stated
                                                                                                                                                                      that the fish has yet to be described to my knowledge and that the genetic
                                                                                                                                                                      work that Patrick seems to claim has not been done. It may well be a guppy,
                                                                                                                                                                      and may be described as one or a subspecies of the guppy. Then, again, it
                                                                                                                                                                      may be described as another species entirely.

                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 10:07 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke

                                                                                                                                                                      here he goes again! just a point of reference. when
                                                                                                                                                                      an lfs orders endlers, they are sold as endler guppies
                                                                                                                                                                      --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                      > Interesting that you should say that an Endler's is
                                                                                                                                                                      > genetically a guppy. So
                                                                                                                                                                      > far as I am aware, this sort of study has not been
                                                                                                                                                                      > done, and neither has the
                                                                                                                                                                      > fish been described, or determined to be a member of
                                                                                                                                                                      > an already extant
                                                                                                                                                                      > species. Perhaps it may be true that every zoologist
                                                                                                                                                                      > wants a species named
                                                                                                                                                                      > after themselves, however they cannot name a species
                                                                                                                                                                      > after themselves if
                                                                                                                                                                      > they are describing it. To have a species or genus
                                                                                                                                                                      > named after a person is
                                                                                                                                                                      > an honorific, and it is not done lightly. Both Innes
                                                                                                                                                                      > and Axelrod have had
                                                                                                                                                                      > fish named after them to honor their work within the
                                                                                                                                                                      > hobby. Pierre Brichard
                                                                                                                                                                      > has also been honored 11 times because of the work
                                                                                                                                                                      > he has done in Lake
                                                                                                                                                                      > Tanganyika including the well known _Neolamprologus
                                                                                                                                                                      > brichardi_ and
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Synodontis brichardi_.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > "I just busted that idea. The sytem has serious
                                                                                                                                                                      > problems, too many species
                                                                                                                                                                      > names are given to the same type of lifeform, and
                                                                                                                                                                      > scientists want the fame
                                                                                                                                                                      > of having their own species at the expense of
                                                                                                                                                                      > science." Unfortunately, you
                                                                                                                                                                      > are wrong here. Before a description and a name are
                                                                                                                                                                      > accepted, the work done
                                                                                                                                                                      > is reviewed and torn apart and put back together
                                                                                                                                                                      > again, particularly if a
                                                                                                                                                                      > new genus is being created for the fish or fishes in
                                                                                                                                                                      > question. There is a
                                                                                                                                                                      > problem here when someone who is well known in the
                                                                                                                                                                      > hobby does the work, and
                                                                                                                                                                      > hobbyists accept it because this person did it,
                                                                                                                                                                      > prior to the scientific
                                                                                                                                                                      > review. This type of behavior only adds to the
                                                                                                                                                                      > confusion, especially if the
                                                                                                                                                                      > work is not accepted. This review can take years to
                                                                                                                                                                      > complete before it is
                                                                                                                                                                      > accepted.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > So, if you take and breed a horse and a donkey, and
                                                                                                                                                                      > end up with a mule, then
                                                                                                                                                                      > both the horse and donkey are the same species? I
                                                                                                                                                                      > think not. There is very
                                                                                                                                                                      > little genetically that differentiates species.
                                                                                                                                                                      > Something like 97 or 98% of
                                                                                                                                                                      > our genes are shared with chimpanzees. The group of
                                                                                                                                                                      > fish known as swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                      > and the group of fish known as platys are two
                                                                                                                                                                      > different fish. Often they are
                                                                                                                                                                      > not even found in the same type of habitat. However,
                                                                                                                                                                      > they can breed and
                                                                                                                                                                      > produce young. Does this mean that the platy is a
                                                                                                                                                                      > swordtail that just lacks
                                                                                                                                                                      > the tail? Or is the swordtail a platy with extended
                                                                                                                                                                      > rays in the lower part
                                                                                                                                                                      > of the caudal fin?
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > If you are as serious about this as you claim to be
                                                                                                                                                                      > here, then why don't you
                                                                                                                                                                      > know this stuff. Hobby is a generic term that covers
                                                                                                                                                                      > the neophyte to the
                                                                                                                                                                      > grand master. All I know who are serious hobbyists
                                                                                                                                                                      > have no problems with
                                                                                                                                                                      > using scientific names, yet are knowledgeable enough
                                                                                                                                                                      > to tone it down for
                                                                                                                                                                      > those who are not at their level in the hobby. They
                                                                                                                                                                      > don't consider learning
                                                                                                                                                                      > the science behind what they do to be a wasted
                                                                                                                                                                      > exertion. Rather it gives
                                                                                                                                                                      > them a better understanding of what they are doing,
                                                                                                                                                                      > and how things fit all
                                                                                                                                                                      > together. While some are scientists in their own
                                                                                                                                                                      > right, mostly in fields not
                                                                                                                                                                      > related to fish keeping, most are not. They are
                                                                                                                                                                      > plain old ordinary people
                                                                                                                                                                      > who had a tough time with some of the stuff they are
                                                                                                                                                                      > now fluent in while in
                                                                                                                                                                      > high school. I know a guy from CT who is a tow truck
                                                                                                                                                                      > operator. He knows his
                                                                                                                                                                      > fish, and he can talk water chemistry with the best
                                                                                                                                                                      > water chemist and both
                                                                                                                                                                      > would understand what the other is saying. I know
                                                                                                                                                                      > another serious aquarist
                                                                                                                                                                      > from NJ who holds a doctorate in a biological field
                                                                                                                                                                      > (I'm not sure which
                                                                                                                                                                      > one), and yet he has learned how to talk fish with
                                                                                                                                                                      > all but the newest
                                                                                                                                                                      > neophyte. (It did not happen overnight, it took him
                                                                                                                                                                      > years to learn how to do
                                                                                                                                                                      > this.) I know a chemist from Pfizer who can spew
                                                                                                                                                                      > scientific names with the
                                                                                                                                                                      > best of them, and then sit down and tell a youngster
                                                                                                                                                                      > how to set up his first
                                                                                                                                                                      > tank. The science behind the hobby is very
                                                                                                                                                                      > important. It is not something to
                                                                                                                                                                      > be shoved aside. If you are serious, you will learn
                                                                                                                                                                      > it. However, if you goal
                                                                                                                                                                      > is simply to have a nice looking tank in the living
                                                                                                                                                                      > room or family room that
                                                                                                                                                                      > you can enjoy, you don't need to know a lot, just
                                                                                                                                                                      > enough to keep it going
                                                                                                                                                                      > and working smoothly. You don't need to get into the
                                                                                                                                                                      > intricacies of what is
                                                                                                                                                                      > named what and why, or the number of synonyms a fish
                                                                                                                                                                      > may have, or keep up
                                                                                                                                                                      > with the latest scientific knowledge about your
                                                                                                                                                                      > favorite fish or fishes.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                      > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      > Behalf Of Patrick, the AmericanFishGuy
                                                                                                                                                                      > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 8:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy
                                                                                                                                                                      > is/is not a joke
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > "First of all, taxonomy is not a joke."
                                                                                                                                                                      > You go on to prove my point...
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > "Thirdly, unlike common names, say, neon tetra, for
                                                                                                                                                                      > example, which
                                                                                                                                                                      > may actually refer to several distinct fish, there
                                                                                                                                                                      > is a mechanism for
                                                                                                                                                                      > tracking name changes called synonyms.
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Paracheirodon innesi_ is
                                                                                                                                                                      > the "real" neon tetra, named after William T. Innes,
                                                                                                                                                                      > BTW, was
                                                                                                                                                                      > formerly known as _Hyphessobrycon innesi_. The
                                                                                                                                                                      > change of the
                                                                                                                                                                      > scientific name was made when further studies showed
                                                                                                                                                                      > that the fish
                                                                                                                                                                      > differed from those other fish in the
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Hyphessobrycon_ genus to rate
                                                                                                                                                                      > a genus of their own."
                                                                                                                                                                      > This is why it is a joke. Every zoologist wants
                                                                                                                                                                      > a species named
                                                                                                                                                                      > after him to the point that a guppy that looks a
                                                                                                                                                                      > little different is
                                                                                                                                                                      > an "Endler's Livebearer", but is genetically a
                                                                                                                                                                      > guppy. That would be
                                                                                                                                                                      > like an alien landing in Africa, then going to
                                                                                                                                                                      > Europe, then North
                                                                                                                                                                      > America, and then to Asia, and thinking they had
                                                                                                                                                                      > found four new
                                                                                                                                                                      > species of intelligent life, when we are all one
                                                                                                                                                                      > species with
                                                                                                                                                                      > different skin colors. If this was really serious,
                                                                                                                                                                      > the taxonomy
                                                                                                                                                                      > would be based on common names and only on genetics.
                                                                                                                                                                      > A neon tetra
                                                                                                                                                                      > would have the species name "neon", and any fish
                                                                                                                                                                      > that looked like
                                                                                                                                                                      > a "neon" would be a color type of "neon".
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > "All nice and neat, the whole thing is."
                                                                                                                                                                      > I just busted that idea. The sytem has serious
                                                                                                                                                                      > problems, too
                                                                                                                                                                      > many species names are given to the same type of
                                                                                                                                                                      > lifeform, and
                                                                                                                                                                      > scientists want the fame of having their own species
                                                                                                                                                                      > at the expense
                                                                                                                                                                      > of science.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > "Oh, what are the other fish that have been commonly
                                                                                                                                                                      > known as neon
                                                                                                                                                                      > tetras? _Paracheirodon axelrodi_ is one, mostly
                                                                                                                                                                      > known as the cardinal
                                                                                                                                                                      > tetra (and named after Herbert Axelrod, and
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Paracheirodon simulans_,
                                                                                                                                                                      > which is also known as the green neon tetra because
                                                                                                                                                                      > it lacks any red
                                                                                                                                                                      > coloration."
                                                                                                                                                                      > And if any two of those fish can be bred and
                                                                                                                                                                      > produce breedible
                                                                                                                                                                      > offspring, they are infact one species with two
                                                                                                                                                                      > color-types.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > "If you are serious about this hobby, you will learn
                                                                                                                                                                      > about scientific
                                                                                                                                                                      > names. Some fish are only known by scientific names
                                                                                                                                                                      > in the hobby--
                                                                                                                                                                      > there is no common name for them."
                                                                                                                                                                      > That is just silly. First, fishkeeping is not a
                                                                                                                                                                      > hobby to me. It
                                                                                                                                                                      > is part of my life. Feeding my dog is not a hobby
                                                                                                                                                                      > for me, so why
                                                                                                                                                                      > should fishkeeping be downgraded to hobby? No
                                                                                                                                                                      > serious fishkeeper has
                                                                                                                                                                      > time for such wasted exertion, they are enjoying
                                                                                                                                                                      > their fish.
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11144 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                          I might go too far with platies and swordtails, but it is my understanding that many of the swordtails and platies in stores have ancestors that were from both species at some point in the past.  In my opinion, every group has its elites.  The elites are the ones who make the scientific names, the ones who become scientific names, and the ones who write about fish using the wrong scientific names.  The rest of us call them what they are and hope for the best.  Could you imagine a fish store where fish are all labeled by the scientific names.  A person walks in and asks for a neon tetra and gets a Hemigrammus erythrozonus when they should have gotten a Paracheirodon innesi.  That would be bad.  Under my system, neons would be called Paracheirodon "neon tetra".
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      yup....and half the time these geniuses that want to
                                                                                                                                                                      use the latin names are using the wrong ones!  i don't
                                                                                                                                                                      know how many specialty fish i have ordered by
                                                                                                                                                                      scientific name and were not what the customer wanted.
                                                                                                                                                                      they try to order from pics in books which are often
                                                                                                                                                                      mislabeled.  excellent point would be pacus! there are
                                                                                                                                                                      literally dozens of different fish sold as pacus
                                                                                                                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11145 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks for the clarification.  I agree that they are omnivores if they eat both.  Maybe there should be a sliding scale like pH.  A Class 1 Eater would eat only plants, while a Class 14 Eater would eat only meat.  A Class 7 would eat half and half.  A Pacu would be a Class 4 Eater, a human would be a Class 6 Eater, a cow would be a Class 1 Eater, and a snake would be a Class 14 Eater.  They scientists would have something else to debate and get wrong and re-debate and re-evaluate. :)
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      pacus are not actually tetras, but are in the same
                                                                                                                                                                      family.  they are charaacoids which encompases 6
                                                                                                                                                                      families.  the tetras are in the family or characidae,
                                                                                                                                                                      while pacus are serrasalmidae, with pirranhas and
                                                                                                                                                                      silver dolars.  while you may see them listed as
                                                                                                                                                                      herbivores, there are dozens of fish sold as pacus,
                                                                                                                                                                      just so that everyone is aware.  red bellied pacus are
                                                                                                                                                                      not technically "pacus" or "piranhas"they are
                                                                                                                                                                      somewhere in between.
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11146 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      Last year the newspapers here in Australia ran a story about Pacus that had
                                                                                                                                                                      been introduced to waters in New Guinea (? by well-meaning but
                                                                                                                                                                      environmentally mistaken United Nations programs) causing injury and even
                                                                                                                                                                      death by biting off the penises of indigenous people. The relationship to
                                                                                                                                                                      Piranhas may be a little closer than we like to admit? However I don't think
                                                                                                                                                                      I'd like to chose the better alternative - the sharp cutting teeth of one
                                                                                                                                                                      against the crushing/grinding molars of the other.

                                                                                                                                                                      Cheers

                                                                                                                                                                      Bruce (Hansen)

                                                                                                                                                                      ANGFA (Qld) Inc - http://www.angfaqld.org.au/
                                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                      From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                      To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 11:49 AM
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pacu 911


                                                                                                                                                                      > except that a pacu will take bites out of anything in
                                                                                                                                                                      > its midst,
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11147 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
                                                                                                                                                                          Some scientists defy common sense.  If two fish can breed and their offspring can breed, and they look like the same animal in everything but color, common sense says that they are the same species no matter what some "expert" says.  I never claimed any study had been completed, and I don't care what any such study would say.  Breeding is the ultimate genetic test.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      I merely stated that the fish has yet to be described to my knowledge and that the genetic work that Patrick seems to claim has not been done. It may well be a guppy,and may be described as one or a subspecies of the guppy. Then, again, it may be described as another species entirely.
                                                                                                                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11148 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                      A quick look-up on fishbase.org shows about 20 different species with the
                                                                                                                                                                      common name of pacu, and that are may variations on that name, usually
                                                                                                                                                                      associated with even more species. Anyone who has been around for a while
                                                                                                                                                                      knows that the books have a lot of misidentifications in them, though I
                                                                                                                                                                      don't know of anyone who has gone to the trouble of compiling a list of
                                                                                                                                                                      those misidentifications.

                                                                                                                                                                      I don't really know of a way of getting around the ordering thing though.
                                                                                                                                                                      For a lot of people in the fish supply chain, it is simply a business of
                                                                                                                                                                      numbers and not names. Move 'em in and move 'em out. Somewhere along the
                                                                                                                                                                      line someone is saying, "this guy wants a whatchamacallit whoseit, well this
                                                                                                                                                                      is close enough--send 'em these labeled that way". And it ends up in the
                                                                                                                                                                      hands of the consumer as a mislabeled fish.

                                                                                                                                                                      As much as I would like to give my local guy the business, I have found it
                                                                                                                                                                      to be safer and more accurate to go through people in the hobby to find a
                                                                                                                                                                      specific fish than to depend on the wiles of the trade.

                                                                                                                                                                      Having said that, I do know people in the trade that when they are asked for
                                                                                                                                                                      a specific fish will do their utmost to get that fish for you, properly
                                                                                                                                                                      identified. I would suspect that these people are few and far between,
                                                                                                                                                                      though.

                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 10:09 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters

                                                                                                                                                                      yup....and half the time these geniuses that want to
                                                                                                                                                                      use the latin names are using the wrong ones! i don't
                                                                                                                                                                      know how many specialty fish i have ordered by
                                                                                                                                                                      scientific name and were not what the customer wanted.
                                                                                                                                                                      they try to order from pics in books which are often
                                                                                                                                                                      mislabeled. excellent point would be pacus! there are
                                                                                                                                                                      literally dozens of different fish sold as pacus
                                                                                                                                                                      --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                                                      <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > Taxonomy is a joke, in my opinion. If common
                                                                                                                                                                      > names are removed and all
                                                                                                                                                                      > fish are labeled by latin names, the entire aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                      > industry will quickly
                                                                                                                                                                      > die as people are turned off by the fact that they
                                                                                                                                                                      > don't know what they are
                                                                                                                                                                      > buying. NOBODY SPEAKS LATIN BUT OLD RICH GUYS
                                                                                                                                                                      > (doctors, biologists, and
                                                                                                                                                                      > priests)! Who wants to buy a b. splendens? People
                                                                                                                                                                      > want bettas.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > :)
                                                                                                                                                                      > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      > L numbers have been around since 1988. They were
                                                                                                                                                                      > introduced in anticipation
                                                                                                                                                                      > of a large number of undescribed species of
                                                                                                                                                                      > Loricarid catfish that were
                                                                                                                                                                      > being discovered. The introduction of L numbers was
                                                                                                                                                                      > to avoid giving "trade
                                                                                                                                                                      > (common) names" to the species, a very variable and
                                                                                                                                                                      > subjective way of naming
                                                                                                                                                                      > fish. A species can have 3, 4, 5 or more common
                                                                                                                                                                      > names. I've seen the same
                                                                                                                                                                      > fish with a new common name on a subsequent shipment
                                                                                                                                                                      > from the wholesaler to
                                                                                                                                                                      > a shop.
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11149 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: taxonomy is/is not a joke
                                                                                                                                                                      To me one of the best things about the aquarium "hobby" is it's multifaceted nature. Some of us just want a few "pretty" fish to look at, others want to keep and breed every new type they see and hear about, others are only interested in native species, for some the fish are only secondary to the plants, some are aquascapers, some are fish photographers, others collect aquarium literature etc etc
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      In other words it means something different to each and every one of us - a discussion forum like this one demonstrates this beautifully. Most are just enjoying their "hobby" in a limited fashion, others are helping out with information from their expertise on various aspects, and still others are just having a "stir':-)
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Cheers
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Bruce (Hansen)
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      ANGFA (Qld) Inc - http://www.angfaqld.org.au/
                                                                                                                                                                      Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                      . Hobby is a generic term that covers the neophyte to the grand master.
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11150 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: taxonomy is/is not a joke -> Maybe we're all right?
                                                                                                                                                                          That sums up my opinion.  I always like a debate, although I won't change my beliefs and don't want other to change their own, and I think it helps people who had no idea what was going on to form their own opinions by seeing both sides with all their arguments coming one after another.  It reminds me of one of the 10 hard and fast rules of aquarium keeping: My way works for me, and your way works for you, but my way is always right! :) 
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      To me one of the best things about the aquarium "hobby" is it's multifaceted nature. Some of us just want a few "pretty" fish to look at, others want to keep and breed every new type they see and hear about, others are only interested in native species, for some the fish are only secondary to the plants, some are aquascapers, some are fish photographers, others collect aquarium literature etc etc
                                                                                                                                                                      In other words it means something different to each and every one of us - a discussion forum like this one demonstrates this beautifully. Most are just enjoying their "hobby" in a limited fashion, others are helping out with information from their expertise on various aspects, and still others are just having a "stir':-)
                                                                                                                                                                      Cheers
                                                                                                                                                                      Bruce (Hansen)
                                                                                                                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11151 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                      In the good old days before the internet, Fishbase and discussion groups
                                                                                                                                                                      books were virtually the only universal authority. Once a fish had been
                                                                                                                                                                      wrongly identified in an "authoritative" book subsequent hobby authors
                                                                                                                                                                      tended to perpetuate the error. For example the rainbowfish sold in the
                                                                                                                                                                      hobby for 40+ years as Melanotaenia nigrans is nothing like the true species
                                                                                                                                                                      that was described under this name and was the in reality the first
                                                                                                                                                                      Australian rainbowfish.

                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick wants to try to simplify a very complex subject - and perhaps for
                                                                                                                                                                      his purposes , his attitude serves his needs. However some branches of the
                                                                                                                                                                      hobby have specialist associations such as ours that recommend knowing the
                                                                                                                                                                      exact identity of the fish we keep down to the stream population level to
                                                                                                                                                                      prevent crosses that might lead to genetic deterioration in the quality of
                                                                                                                                                                      the offspring we breed. This has nothing to do with whether the member is a
                                                                                                                                                                      scientist, doctor, plumber or student etc

                                                                                                                                                                      Cheers

                                                                                                                                                                      Bruce (Hansen)

                                                                                                                                                                      ANGFA (Qld) Inc - http://www.angfaqld.org.au/
                                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                      From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...>
                                                                                                                                                                      To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 1:05 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters


                                                                                                                                                                      . Anyone who has been around for a while
                                                                                                                                                                      > knows that the books have a lot of misidentifications in them, though I
                                                                                                                                                                      > don't know of anyone who has gone to the trouble of compiling a list of
                                                                                                                                                                      > those misidentifications.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11152 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: taxonomy is/is not a joke -> Maybe we're all right?
                                                                                                                                                                      You forgot the last little bit Patrick -
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      "my way is always right - FOR ME!"
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Cheers
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Bruce (Hansen)
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      ANGFA (Qld) Inc - http://www.angfaqld.org.au/
                                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 1:24 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] taxonomy is/is not a joke -> Maybe we're all right?

                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11153 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                                                                      Nim
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      My understanding has always been that agitation of the surface caused CO2 to be lost from solution and increased oxygen solution, although of course the 2 processes are essentially independent.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Cheers
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Bruce (Hansen)
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      ANGFA (Qld) Inc - http://www.angfaqld.org.au/
                                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 9:33 AM
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                      Bit confusion here I think.

                                                                                                                                                                      Dissolved CO2 in the water is governed partially by PH or vice versa but that is when the equilibrium between the atmosphere and water is not maintained. When we talk about calculating how much CO2 is in the water, this CO2 we are talking about is the one that is in transition between CO2+H2O and the carbonic acid. The pure Co2 dissolving capacity of water is not really 100% governed by PH I think. Temperature however can have a major governing factor on this.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      I am not a chemist either so I am also looking forward to everyone’s views on this J

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                                                      From: Fish Bloke [mailto:fishbloke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: 09 April 2005 06:08
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Fair enough.  I am here to learn, can you expand.  Was everything I said wrong, or just that bit.  :^)

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Phil.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                      From: Liz Wilhite

                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 1:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      On Apr 8, 2005 7:22 PM, Fish Bloke <fishbloke@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      I am no chemist, but I think the idea of pH having a bearing on how much CO2 water can hold is wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      I am a Ph.D. chemist.  You are dead wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Liz


                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11154 From: Anne Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Introduction
                                                                                                                                                                      "I've been lurking here a bit so I thought it was time
                                                                                                                                                                      to introduce myself. My name is Michele Kerby."

                                                                                                                                                                      Hi Michele, Glad to meet you.
                                                                                                                                                                      Anne



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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11155 From: Anne Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: a cory question
                                                                                                                                                                      "Here is a Great Article I suggest you read explaining
                                                                                                                                                                      more: The boys and the Girls "
                                                                                                                                                                      rob

                                                                                                                                                                      thanks so much Rob, the pictures are great, (I think
                                                                                                                                                                      my chubby is a female) and I'm heading for the article
                                                                                                                                                                      now. Thanks again
                                                                                                                                                                      Anne



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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11156 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                          It isn't that I simplify things, I just don't have any time for people telling me I need to complicate them.  If I need to know something to keep the fish healthy, that is one thing, but knowing things like species names, family and genus names and the geographical coordinates of the stream where the fish was from is meaningless to me.  It is nice to have such information in books for future reference by scientists, but the average fishkeeper wouldn't know what to do with such useless data.  Lately I've been getting a lot of comments about over-simplifying things.  I think Harry could tell you that I've also gotten comments about how I over-complicate issues from other groups.  I think I say things like I see them.  I could type all day calling fish by scientific name or using big words (I have a college degree, so I know a few of them) and making experts happy at the expense of those who know less than I do.  That isn't me.  It is like I've said before, I'm a teacher, so I want to teach.  Sometimes it sounds like preaching (like now), but I only do it to try to help people.  Right now I'm trying to help people understand that there is nothing wrong with not knowing fish by latin names, or even common names if you have a picture atlas.  If that means I don't sound serious enough, maybe somebody needs to take things less seriously.  Just a thought. :)
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11157 From: Nan Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      *LOL*  Happy Dance!  I finally got something right..*LOL* Just Kidding.. Anyway, I would hope most people would have the common sense to know that most (not all) LPS, Wal-Mart, or stores like that are out to sell the fish and most tell you want you want to hear.  So yes, I am sure that Wal-Mart has posted that.  Personally, before I buy I put my computer and my library card to use and find out all I can first.  I would rather take that extra time than find my Oscar has eaten my guppys because my friendly Wal-Mart associate said that they make WONDERFUL TANKMATES!*chuckle*
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Nan

                                                                                                                                                                      paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      you are correct, pacu's are absolutely not herbivores.
                                                                                                                                                                      that is unless you buy them at walmart.  according to
                                                                                                                                                                      them they are peaceful community fish that grow to 6
                                                                                                                                                                      inches.  they will generally empty a tank within a
                                                                                                                                                                      month.  again not plant eaters.  fish are food not
                                                                                                                                                                      friends!
                                                                                                                                                                      --- Nan <ntalb00@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > Pacu's Herbivores?????  That is a new one to me,
                                                                                                                                                                      > since they are in the same family, I believe and I
                                                                                                                                                                      > could be wrong, as priannah (spelling sucks tonight,
                                                                                                                                                                      > sorry!).  In fact, they are very much a carnivore.
                                                                                                                                                                      > Many breeders I know keep them or Oscars for when
                                                                                                                                                                      > they cull their fry, and use the fry as food for
                                                                                                                                                                      > them.

                                                                                                                                                                      > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > This was back before I knew better. :) When I bought
                                                                                                                                                                      > the pacu, it was
                                                                                                                                                                      > the same size as the tiger barbs I had. When it
                                                                                                                                                                      > quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                      > other fish, I didn't think it would eat them - pacus
                                                                                                                                                                      > are supposed to be
                                                                                                                                                                      > herbivores, after all.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                      > > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal. tank
                                                                                                                                                                      > he
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > because he had gotten big enough that he was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > the tank (as well as the other fish - I actually
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > Here's a photo that might help.he seems to be
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the
                                                                                                                                                                      > Hilton.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > whole thing was given away.i thought they
                                                                                                                                                                      > would
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > have enough room. Plants are good hiding
                                                                                                                                                                      > places
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > rock
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > with the hole in it.but back to what can I do
                                                                                                                                                                      > for
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > him    Emily
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11158 From: Nan Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Mystery snails eggs have hatched
                                                                                                                                                                      I am so glad that this is working out for you.  I would suggest when you do move them to an aquarium, use a bare bottom tank (no gravel), it will be so much easier to clean.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Nan

                                                                                                                                                                      mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      Once the clutches look moldy I moved them into a plastic shoe box
                                                                                                                                                                      thingy for a temp home until they get a little bigger. And tonight
                                                                                                                                                                      another one hatched about 30 it was a small clutch.


                                                                                                                                                                      > lucky you.. I never get to see my baby snails they just fall back in
                                                                                                                                                                      my 
                                                                                                                                                                      > tank.. I have seen I think 2 lol but I wonder how they survive the
                                                                                                                                                                      water changes 
                                                                                                                                                                      > lol Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                      > just to let you guys know my clutches arrived  and one has hatched
                                                                                                                                                                      > out about 50 babies. They are so cute and keep changing  colors. I love
                                                                                                                                                                      > them.




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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11159 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      Isn't it nice to have the scientific name of the fish labeled on the tank so you can get the right info at the library?

                                                                                                                                                                      I was at Walmart today they have Red Bellied pacu. says they grow to 10" and are ominorious..

                                                                                                                                                                        hmmmmm Thaught a Pacu could get 20+"  

                                                                                                                                                                      don't there cousin the red bellied Piranaha get 12"  hmmm

                                                                                                                                                                      rob
                                                                                                                                                                      Indiana

                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/8/2005 12:24:26 AM US Eastern Standard Time, ntalb00@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                      *LOL*  Happy Dance!  I finally got something right..*LOL* Just Kidding.. Anyway, I would hope most people would have the common sense to know that most (not all) LPS, Wal-Mart, or stores like that are out to sell the fish and most tell you want you want to hear.  So yes, I am sure that Wal-Mart has posted that.  Personally, before I buy I put my computer and my library card to use and find out all I can first.  I would rather take that extra time than find my Oscar has eaten my guppys because my friendly Wal-Mart associate said that they make WONDERFUL TANKMATES!*chuckle*

                                                                                                                                                                      Nan


                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11160 From: Nan Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      I'll Be.........After reading your post, Patrick, I was quick to jump on the "Says WHO?" band wagon, but ya know, your right they are suppossed to be herbivores, I have been mislead!  I decided to site my own sources as to what the Pacu eats, to prove you wrong, Patrick, but alllll over the place I am seeing that they prefer hard nut like vegetation in the wild and that they will eat anything they can.  I was right about them being related to the Pirannah family though!*LOL*  Forgive my ignorance.  I just know what I had learned from before. My bad!  Let me list a few sources for those who don't believe me (and I guess Patrick, too...*LOL*)!
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      "Patrick, American Fish Guy" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                          Pacus are tetras, not Cichlids, and they are in fact mostly herbivores, but will eat small fish.  Like all large fish, it will eat whatever is given to it, but from what I've read, in the wild they eat mostly plants.  Like all large fish, the myth is spread that they eat mostly meat to increase the sale of feeder fish.  They also belong in rivers, ponds, and lakes, not aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      no, they are quite aggressive omnivores actually.
                                                                                                                                                                      unlike most cichlids, they are not naturally
                                                                                                                                                                      aggressive herbivores
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11161 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      It happens to me too.  I plan to cite a source only to find out it says I'm wrong.  That is when I quit posting on the subject. :)  Just joking.  Actually, the first source I found said omnivore that likes feeder fish.  I almost thought I had gotten it way off, and then I found that research article.  Rule number one of research: Research articles are more trustworthy than web sites, and peer reviewed articles are even better. :)
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      I'll Be.........After reading your post, Patrick, I was quick to jump on the "Says WHO?" band wagon, but ya know, your right they are suppossed to be herbivores, I have been mislead!  I decided to site my own sources as to what the Pacu eats, to prove you wrong, Patrick, but alllll over the place I am seeing that they prefer hard nut like vegetation in the wild and that they will eat anything they can.  I was right about them being related to the Pirannah family though!*LOL*  Forgive my ignorance.  I just know what I had learned from before. My bad!  Let me list a few sources for those who don't believe me (and I guess Patrick, too...*LOL*)!
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Nan
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11162 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
                                                                                                                                                                       "If you are as serious about this as you claim to be here, then why don't you know this stuff."
                                                                                                                                                                          Because it isn't important to keeping fish.  If you can tell me how it is important to maintaining a healthy tank of fish, I will be shocked.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      "All I know who are serious hobbyists have no problems with using scientific names, yet are knowledgeable enough to tone it down for those who are not at their level in the hobby. They don't consider learning the science behind what they do to be a wasted exertion."
                                                                                                                                                                          Most people don't have a need for knowing so much stuff.  Simple understanding of the nitrogen cycle and fish care is all that is needed.  I have no need to talk like I know more than I do to impress people I will never meet.  I try to type in a way that new people will understand, and if they want details they can find them for themselves like I did.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      "However, if you goal is simply to have a nice looking tank in the living room or family room that you can enjoy, you don't need to know a lot, just enough to keep it going and working smoothly. You don't need to get into the intricacies of what is named what and why, or the number of synonyms a fish may have, or keep up with the latest scientific knowledge about your favorite fish or fishes."
                                                                                                                                                                          What other purpose of aquariums is there?  They are for fun.  I only take it seriously enough to keep the fish alive.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11163 From: Nan Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                      All that is fine and dandy, Steve, however, you did make a mistake with the bettas.  There are several different types of Bettas in the Betta Species, and B. Splendas came from wild b. splendas, the variation of color comes from that.   But if you look around the web (and if it wasn't after 2 a.m. as I write this I would site them myself) there are several classifications for different types or species of the bettas.  Just letting you know............oh, and btw. they each have their own scientific name as well.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      First of all, taxonomy is not a joke. It is a way of classifying every
                                                                                                                                                                      living thing on this planet (at least on this planet for now). Secondly, the
                                                                                                                                                                      names are NOT Latin. They are a mix of Latin, Greek, and many other
                                                                                                                                                                      languages. They are known as scientific names, and they follow fairly strict
                                                                                                                                                                      rules when naming an organism. Thirdly, unlike common names, say, neon
                                                                                                                                                                      tetra, for example, which may actually refer to several distinct fish, there
                                                                                                                                                                      is a mechanism for tracking name changes called synonyms. _Paracheirodon
                                                                                                                                                                      innesi_ is the "real" neon tetra, named after William T. Innes, BTW, was
                                                                                                                                                                      formerly known as _Hyphessobrycon innesi_. The change of the scientific name
                                                                                                                                                                      was made when further studies showed that the fish differed from those other
                                                                                                                                                                      fish in the _Hyphessobrycon_ genus to rate a genus of their own. All nice
                                                                                                                                                                      and neat, the whole thing is.

                                                                                                                                                                      Oh, what are the other fish that have been commonly known as neon tetras?
                                                                                                                                                                      _Paracheirodon axelrodi_ is one, mostly known as the cardinal tetra (and
                                                                                                                                                                      named after Herbert Axelrod, and _Paracheirodon simulans_, which is also
                                                                                                                                                                      known as the green neon tetra because it lacks any red coloration.

                                                                                                                                                                      The betta you refer to is a whole other story. The ones people think of are
                                                                                                                                                                      the long finned variety with a great number of colors to chose from. These
                                                                                                                                                                      are descended from a "wild" stock of fish that are multi-colored, and have
                                                                                                                                                                      short fins and rounded tails and, yes, you can actually get those fish also.
                                                                                                                                                                      They have as much right to be called bettas as the fancy varieties do also.
                                                                                                                                                                      Are they the same fish? They sure are, but that steel blue betta you bought
                                                                                                                                                                      in a bowl at the fish place has been bred from that wild stock to look as
                                                                                                                                                                      they do. However, to the scientist they are the same fish, probably not even
                                                                                                                                                                      worth a sub species designation.

                                                                                                                                                                      If you are serious about this hobby, you will learn about scientific names.
                                                                                                                                                                      Some fish are only known by scientific names in the hobby--there is no
                                                                                                                                                                      common name for them.

                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                      ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 1:52 AM
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters


                                                                                                                                                                          Taxonomy is a joke, in my opinion.  If common names are removed and all
                                                                                                                                                                      fish are labeled by latin names, the entire aquarium industry will quickly
                                                                                                                                                                      die as people are turned off by the fact that they don't know what they are
                                                                                                                                                                      buying.  NOBODY SPEAKS LATIN BUT OLD RICH GUYS (doctors, biologists, and
                                                                                                                                                                      priests)!  Who wants to buy a b. splendens?  People want bettas.

                                                                                                                                                                      :)
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      L numbers have been around since 1988. They were introduced in anticipation
                                                                                                                                                                      of a large number of undescribed species of Loricarid catfish that were
                                                                                                                                                                      being discovered. The introduction of L numbers was to avoid giving "trade
                                                                                                                                                                      (common) names" to the species, a very variable and subjective way of naming
                                                                                                                                                                      fish. A species can have 3, 4, 5 or more common names. I've seen the same
                                                                                                                                                                      fish with a new common name on a subsequent shipment from the wholesaler to
                                                                                                                                                                      a shop.     



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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11164 From: Nan Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      Thank you Patrick.  I will keep that in mind...*S*  And later when I can keep my eyes open and not fall asleep at the keyboard (late at night!), I would like to know where I can find some of those research articles and peer reviewed articles.*grin*
                                                                                                                                                                      Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      "Patrick, American Fish Guy" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      It happens to me too.  I plan to cite a source only to find out it says I'm wrong.  That is when I quit posting on the subject. :)  Just joking.  Actually, the first source I found said omnivore that likes feeder fish.  I almost thought I had gotten it way off, and then I found that research article.  Rule number one of research: Research articles are more trustworthy than web sites, and peer reviewed articles are even better. :)
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      I'll Be.........After reading your post, Patrick, I was quick to jump on the "Says WHO?" band wagon, but ya know, your right they are suppossed to be herbivores, I have been mislead!  I decided to site my own sources as to what the Pacu eats, to prove you wrong, Patrick, but alllll over the place I am seeing that they prefer hard nut like vegetation in the wild and that they will eat anything they can.  I was right about them being related to the Pirannah family though!*LOL*  Forgive my ignorance.  I just know what I had learned from before. My bad!  Let me list a few sources for those who don't believe me (and I guess Patrick, too...*LOL*)!
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Nan
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11165 From: Nan Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      Sarcasm duely noted.....and filed in the bite me file. 
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Nan

                                                                                                                                                                      FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      Isn't it nice to have the scientific name of the fish labeled on the tank so you can get the right info at the library?

                                                                                                                                                                      I was at Walmart today they have Red Bellied pacu. says they grow to 10" and are ominorious..

                                                                                                                                                                        hmmmmm Thaught a Pacu could get 20+"  

                                                                                                                                                                      don't there cousin the red bellied Piranaha get 12"  hmmm

                                                                                                                                                                      rob
                                                                                                                                                                      Indiana

                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/8/2005 12:24:26 AM US Eastern Standard Time, ntalb00@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                      *LOL*  Happy Dance!  I finally got something right..*LOL* Just Kidding.. Anyway, I would hope most people would have the common sense to know that most (not all) LPS, Wal-Mart, or stores like that are out to sell the fish and most tell you want you want to hear.  So yes, I am sure that Wal-Mart has posted that.  Personally, before I buy I put my computer and my library card to use and find out all I can first.  I would rather take that extra time than find my Oscar has eaten my guppys because my friendly Wal-Mart associate said that they make WONDERFUL TANKMATES!*chuckle*

                                                                                                                                                                      Nan




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                                                                                                                                                                      ~nan and crew~
                                                                                                                                                                      Rome, GA
                                                                                                                                                                      bettas and soon we add guppys!


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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11166 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/7/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/7/2005 10:34:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, FortWayneFish@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                      I was at Walmart today they have Red Bellied pacu. says they grow to 10" and are ominorious..

                                                                                                                                                                        hmmmmm Thaught a Pacu could get 20+"  
                                                                                                                                                                      Maybe they meant 10 inches in the first six months or 10 pounds?
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      No, they just don't care. 
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Money grubbing SOB's.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11167 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/7/2005 7:59:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, toxotes@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                      been introduced to waters in New Guinea (? by well-meaning but
                                                                                                                                                                      environmentally mistaken  United Nations programs) causing injury and even
                                                                                                                                                                      death by biting off the penises of indigenous people. The relationship to
                                                                                                                                                                      Piranhas may be a little closer than we like to admit? However I don't think
                                                                                                                                                                      I'd like to chose the better alternative - the sharp cutting teeth of one
                                                                                                                                                                      against the crushing/grinding molars of the other.

                                                                                                                                                                      Cheers

                                                                                                                                                                      Bruce (Hansen)
                                                                                                                                                                      So was it a surreptitious birth control measure?  : )
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11168 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/7/2005 6:49:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                      except that a pacu will take bites out of anything in
                                                                                                                                                                      its midst, unlike an oscar who will only generally eat
                                                                                                                                                                      what fits in its mouth.
                                                                                                                                                                      Speaking of both of those in the same sentence.  My Pacu ate two big hunks of Dorsal fin off my Oscar before I relocated the pacu to a new owner with a big tank.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Neat fish but I cannot see myself ever getting another one unless I converted a pond or swimming pool into a pacu pond.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11169 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/7/2005 6:51:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, steve@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                      Perhaps it may be true that every zoologist wants a species named
                                                                                                                                                                      after themselves, however they cannot name a species after themselves if
                                                                                                                                                                      they are describing it
                                                                                                                                                                      Not trying to take either side on the Taxonomy topic at this point, but I have heard it is looked upon unfavorably now among the scientific community to name things after yourself.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11170 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Taxonomy etc...
                                                                                                                                                                      Hello Bruce,
                                                                                                                                                                      I see what you mean and to add more detail to what you wrote I have heard Killifish collectors sometimes use bridge overcrossings and milemarkers or roadmarkers to assist in identifying fish by location.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      As for Taxonomy I do believe it has its place.  It may not be important to someone who just wants a pretty tank, when I get tetras and mollies for my wife I really do not care, as long as they look pretty.
                                                                                                                                                                      Now if it is for me and it is a cichlid, I try to make real sure what I am getting because the chance of crossbreeding is high, especially with Lake Victoria cichlids, almost every female appears the same, so visually looking at them is a bad gamble.  With exception of Blood parrots and Flowerhorns(gag) it is a really bad idea to cross breed cichlids. 
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      As for ordering fish and getting the wrong thing, that is NOT a scientists fault, it could be the exporter/importer and wholesaler as well as the local fish store.  There are a couple Ichthylogists/Biologists that attend some of the meetings I go to and I don't see them making errors when it comes to identifying or labeling things.  That is not to say that they are perfect, but they don't just throw words about.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/7/2005 8:27:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, toxotes@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                      However some branches of the
                                                                                                                                                                      hobby have specialist associations such as ours  that recommend knowing the
                                                                                                                                                                      exact identity of the fish we keep down to the stream population level to
                                                                                                                                                                      prevent crosses that might lead to genetic deterioration in the quality of
                                                                                                                                                                      the offspring we breed. This has nothing to do with whether the member is a
                                                                                                                                                                      scientist, doctor, plumber or student etc

                                                                                                                                                                      Cheers

                                                                                                                                                                      Bruce (Hansen)
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11171 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      you will find that if you look up the pacu in a book,
                                                                                                                                                                      it will say that they are herbivores, but look close
                                                                                                                                                                      at the pic...9 times out of 10 they will not match.
                                                                                                                                                                      there are several species sold as pacus, some are
                                                                                                                                                                      technically herbivores, other are listed as omnivores
                                                                                                                                                                      --- Nan <ntalb00@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                      > *LOL* Happy Dance! I finally got something
                                                                                                                                                                      > right..*LOL* Just Kidding.. Anyway, I would hope
                                                                                                                                                                      > most people would have the common sense to know that
                                                                                                                                                                      > most (not all) LPS, Wal-Mart, or stores like that
                                                                                                                                                                      > are out to sell the fish and most tell you want you
                                                                                                                                                                      > want to hear. So yes, I am sure that Wal-Mart has
                                                                                                                                                                      > posted that. Personally, before I buy I put my
                                                                                                                                                                      > computer and my library card to use and find out all
                                                                                                                                                                      > I can first. I would rather take that extra time
                                                                                                                                                                      > than find my Oscar has eaten my guppys because my
                                                                                                                                                                      > friendly Wal-Mart associate said that they make
                                                                                                                                                                      > WONDERFUL TANKMATES!*chuckle*
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > you are correct, pacu's are absolutely not
                                                                                                                                                                      > herbivores.
                                                                                                                                                                      > that is unless you buy them at walmart. according
                                                                                                                                                                      > to
                                                                                                                                                                      > them they are peaceful community fish that grow to 6
                                                                                                                                                                      > inches. they will generally empty a tank within a
                                                                                                                                                                      > month. again not plant eaters. fish are food not
                                                                                                                                                                      > friends!
                                                                                                                                                                      > --- Nan <ntalb00@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Pacu's Herbivores????? That is a new one to me,
                                                                                                                                                                      > > since they are in the same family, I believe and I
                                                                                                                                                                      > > could be wrong, as priannah (spelling sucks
                                                                                                                                                                      > tonight,
                                                                                                                                                                      > > sorry!). In fact, they are very much a carnivore.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Many breeders I know keep them or Oscars for when
                                                                                                                                                                      > > they cull their fry, and use the fry as food for
                                                                                                                                                                      > > them.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > This was back before I knew better. :) When I
                                                                                                                                                                      > bought
                                                                                                                                                                      > > the pacu, it was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > the same size as the tiger barbs I had. When it
                                                                                                                                                                      > > quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > other fish, I didn't think it would eat them -
                                                                                                                                                                      > pacus
                                                                                                                                                                      > > are supposed to be
                                                                                                                                                                      > > herbivores, after all.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal.
                                                                                                                                                                      > tank
                                                                                                                                                                      > > he
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > because he had gotten big enough that he was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > the tank (as well as the other fish - I
                                                                                                                                                                      > actually
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > Here's a photo that might help.he seems to
                                                                                                                                                                      > be
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Hilton.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > whole thing was given away.i thought they
                                                                                                                                                                      > > would
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > have enough room. Plants are good hiding
                                                                                                                                                                      > > places
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > rock
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > with the hole in it.but back to what can I
                                                                                                                                                                      > do
                                                                                                                                                                      > > for
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > him Emily
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
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                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11172 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
                                                                                                                                                                      right on...shoot down the horse and donkey theory
                                                                                                                                                                      doesn't it...since the offspring is sterile! lmao you
                                                                                                                                                                      rock pat
                                                                                                                                                                      --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                                                      <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > Some scientists defy common sense. If two fish
                                                                                                                                                                      > can breed and their
                                                                                                                                                                      > offspring can breed, and they look like the same
                                                                                                                                                                      > animal in everything but
                                                                                                                                                                      > color, common sense says that they are the same
                                                                                                                                                                      > species no matter what some
                                                                                                                                                                      > expert" says. I never claimed any study had been
                                                                                                                                                                      > completed, and I don't
                                                                                                                                                                      > care what any such study would say. Breeding is the
                                                                                                                                                                      > ultimate genetic test.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      > I merely stated that the fish has yet to be
                                                                                                                                                                      > described to my knowledge and that the genetic work
                                                                                                                                                                      > that Patrick seems to claim has not been done. It
                                                                                                                                                                      > may well be a guppy,and may be described as one or a
                                                                                                                                                                      > subspecies of the guppy. Then, again, it may be
                                                                                                                                                                      > described as another species entirely.



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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11173 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Taxonomy etc...
                                                                                                                                                                      G'day Mike
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      I have no problems with hobbyists choosing for themselves to what degree they will be involved with the complexities of taxonomy with their own fish but when they wish to part with fish that they have bred the new owner may want to know exactly what they are getting.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Cheers
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Bruce (Hansen)
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      ANGFA (Qld) Inc - http://www.angfaqld.org.au/
                                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 7:04 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Taxonomy etc...

                                                                                                                                                                      Hello Bruce,
                                                                                                                                                                      I see what you mean and to add more detail to what you wrote I have heard Killifish collectors sometimes use bridge overcrossings and milemarkers or roadmarkers to assist in identifying fish by location.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      As for Taxonomy I do believe it has its place.  It may not be important to someone who just wants a pretty tank, when I get tetras and mollies for my wife I really do not care, as long as they look pretty.
                                                                                                                                                                      Now if it is for me and it is a cichlid, I try to make real sure what I am getting because the chance of crossbreeding is high, especially with Lake Victoria cichlids, almost every female appears the same, so visually looking at them is a bad gamble.  With exception of Blood parrots and Flowerhorns(gag) it is a really bad idea to cross breed cichlids. 
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      As for ordering fish and getting the wrong thing, that is NOT a scientists fault, it could be the exporter/importer and wholesaler as well as the local fish store.  There are a couple Ichthylogists/Biologists that attend some of the meetings I go to and I don't see them making errors when it comes to identifying or labeling things.  That is not to say that they are perfect, but they don't just throw words about.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/7/2005 8:27:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, toxotes@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                      However some branches of the
                                                                                                                                                                      hobby have specialist associations such as ours  that recommend knowing the
                                                                                                                                                                      exact identity of the fish we keep down to the stream population level to
                                                                                                                                                                      prevent crosses that might lead to genetic deterioration in the quality of
                                                                                                                                                                      the offspring we breed. This has nothing to do with whether the member is a
                                                                                                                                                                      scientist, doctor, plumber or student etc

                                                                                                                                                                      Cheers

                                                                                                                                                                      Bruce (Hansen)
                                                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      .
                                                                                                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11174 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      no problem pat......whether or not others want to
                                                                                                                                                                      believe it or not, i do know something even though i
                                                                                                                                                                      have only been in the HOBBY for 12 years. lol i can be
                                                                                                                                                                      scientific, but why go through all the bs when things
                                                                                                                                                                      don't have to be so damn compicated.lol when are we
                                                                                                                                                                      gonna write that book pat?
                                                                                                                                                                      --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                                                      <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > Thanks for the clarification. I agree that they
                                                                                                                                                                      > are omnivores if they
                                                                                                                                                                      > eat both. Maybe there should be a sliding scale
                                                                                                                                                                      > like pH. A Class 1 Eater
                                                                                                                                                                      > would eat only plants, while a Class 14 Eater would
                                                                                                                                                                      > eat only meat. A Class
                                                                                                                                                                      > 7 would eat half and half. A Pacu would be a Class
                                                                                                                                                                      > 4 Eater, a human would
                                                                                                                                                                      > be a Class 6 Eater, a cow would be a Class 1 Eater,
                                                                                                                                                                      > and a snake would be a
                                                                                                                                                                      > Class 14 Eater. They scientists would have
                                                                                                                                                                      > something else to debate and get
                                                                                                                                                                      > wrong and re-debate and re-evaluate. :)
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      > pacus are not actually tetras, but are in the same
                                                                                                                                                                      > family. they are charaacoids which encompases 6
                                                                                                                                                                      > families. the tetras are in the family or
                                                                                                                                                                      > characidae,
                                                                                                                                                                      > while pacus are serrasalmidae, with pirranhas and
                                                                                                                                                                      > silver dolars. while you may see them listed as
                                                                                                                                                                      > herbivores, there are dozens of fish sold as pacus,
                                                                                                                                                                      > just so that everyone is aware. red bellied pacus
                                                                                                                                                                      > are
                                                                                                                                                                      > not technically "pacus" or "piranhas"they are
                                                                                                                                                                      > somewhere in between.



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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11175 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                      not really. swords and platties are very similar, but
                                                                                                                                                                      mr. science has mistakenly stated the long fin on teh
                                                                                                                                                                      sword which is only present on the male. females have
                                                                                                                                                                      a rounded short tail.
                                                                                                                                                                      lmao
                                                                                                                                                                      --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                                                      <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > I might go too far with platies and swordtails,
                                                                                                                                                                      > but it is my
                                                                                                                                                                      > understanding that many of the swordtails and
                                                                                                                                                                      > platies in stores have
                                                                                                                                                                      > ancestors that were from both species at some point
                                                                                                                                                                      > in the past. In my
                                                                                                                                                                      > opinion, every group has its elites. The elites are
                                                                                                                                                                      > the ones who make the
                                                                                                                                                                      > scientific names, the ones who become scientific
                                                                                                                                                                      > names, and the ones who
                                                                                                                                                                      > write about fish using the wrong scientific names.
                                                                                                                                                                      > The rest of us call them
                                                                                                                                                                      > what they are and hope for the best. Could you
                                                                                                                                                                      > imagine a fish store where
                                                                                                                                                                      > fish are all labeled by the scientific names. A
                                                                                                                                                                      > person walks in and asks
                                                                                                                                                                      > for a neon tetra and gets a Hemigrammus erythrozonus
                                                                                                                                                                      > when they should have
                                                                                                                                                                      > gotten a Paracheirodon innesi. That would be bad.
                                                                                                                                                                      > Under my system, neons
                                                                                                                                                                      > would be called Paracheirodon "neon tetra".
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      > yup....and half the time these geniuses that want to
                                                                                                                                                                      > use the latin names are using the wrong ones! i
                                                                                                                                                                      > don't
                                                                                                                                                                      > know how many specialty fish i have ordered by
                                                                                                                                                                      > scientific name and were not what the customer
                                                                                                                                                                      > wanted.
                                                                                                                                                                      > they try to order from pics in books which are often
                                                                                                                                                                      > mislabeled. excellent point would be pacus! there
                                                                                                                                                                      > are
                                                                                                                                                                      > literally dozens of different fish sold as pacus



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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11176 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Taxonomy etc...
                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/8/2005 2:37:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, toxotes@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                      but when they wish to part with fish that they have bred the new owner may want to know exactly what they are getting.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Cheers
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Bruce (Hansen)
                                                                                                                                                                      Bruce,
                                                                                                                                                                      I totally agree with you on that one.  I try to write down the names of every fish I bring home so if I resell it or its offspring that information will be available. 
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Mike 
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11177 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
                                                                                                                                                                      then why butt in if you can't prove or disprove it?
                                                                                                                                                                      most scientific knowledge is based on theories and
                                                                                                                                                                      hypothesises which are eventually disporven or proven.
                                                                                                                                                                      in this case i would say that someone like Pat is
                                                                                                                                                                      educated enough in the hobby to make a conjecture of
                                                                                                                                                                      something that is quite aparent and obvious to many
                                                                                                                                                                      other people. his hypothesis, which i call it because
                                                                                                                                                                      it is an educated guess is fine in my book. didn't
                                                                                                                                                                      your mother ever teach you that you should not say
                                                                                                                                                                      anything if you don't have something nice to say? i
                                                                                                                                                                      mean jeeze man....he did not make a claim as in he
                                                                                                                                                                      had done research, but something that is freaking
                                                                                                                                                                      obvious....you need some happy pills imho
                                                                                                                                                                      --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                      > And, Paul, being in the industry, you should know
                                                                                                                                                                      > that when a common name is
                                                                                                                                                                      > stuck on a fish somewhere in the distribution chain,
                                                                                                                                                                      > it normally sticks
                                                                                                                                                                      > right down to the consumer, even if everyone else
                                                                                                                                                                      > uses another common name
                                                                                                                                                                      > for it.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Again, if you read my post, I did not take a
                                                                                                                                                                      > position on whether or not the
                                                                                                                                                                      > fish known as Endler's livebearer was or was not a
                                                                                                                                                                      > guppy. I merely stated
                                                                                                                                                                      > that the fish has yet to be described to my
                                                                                                                                                                      > knowledge and that the genetic
                                                                                                                                                                      > work that Patrick seems to claim has not been done.
                                                                                                                                                                      > It may well be a guppy,
                                                                                                                                                                      > and may be described as one or a subspecies of the
                                                                                                                                                                      > guppy. Then, again, it
                                                                                                                                                                      > may be described as another species entirely.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                      > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                      > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 10:07 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters ->
                                                                                                                                                                      > taxonomy is/is not a joke
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > here he goes again! just a point of reference.
                                                                                                                                                                      > when
                                                                                                                                                                      > an lfs orders endlers, they are sold as endler
                                                                                                                                                                      > guppies
                                                                                                                                                                      > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Interesting that you should say that an Endler's
                                                                                                                                                                      > is
                                                                                                                                                                      > > genetically a guppy. So
                                                                                                                                                                      > > far as I am aware, this sort of study has not been
                                                                                                                                                                      > > done, and neither has the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > fish been described, or determined to be a member
                                                                                                                                                                      > of
                                                                                                                                                                      > > an already extant
                                                                                                                                                                      > > species. Perhaps it may be true that every
                                                                                                                                                                      > zoologist
                                                                                                                                                                      > > wants a species named
                                                                                                                                                                      > > after themselves, however they cannot name a
                                                                                                                                                                      > species
                                                                                                                                                                      > > after themselves if
                                                                                                                                                                      > > they are describing it. To have a species or genus
                                                                                                                                                                      > > named after a person is
                                                                                                                                                                      > > an honorific, and it is not done lightly. Both
                                                                                                                                                                      > Innes
                                                                                                                                                                      > > and Axelrod have had
                                                                                                                                                                      > > fish named after them to honor their work within
                                                                                                                                                                      > the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > hobby. Pierre Brichard
                                                                                                                                                                      > > has also been honored 11 times because of the work
                                                                                                                                                                      > > he has done in Lake
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Tanganyika including the well known
                                                                                                                                                                      > _Neolamprologus
                                                                                                                                                                      > > brichardi_ and
                                                                                                                                                                      > > _Synodontis brichardi_.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > "I just busted that idea. The sytem has serious
                                                                                                                                                                      > > problems, too many species
                                                                                                                                                                      > > names are given to the same type of lifeform, and
                                                                                                                                                                      > > scientists want the fame
                                                                                                                                                                      > > of having their own species at the expense of
                                                                                                                                                                      > > science." Unfortunately, you
                                                                                                                                                                      > > are wrong here. Before a description and a name
                                                                                                                                                                      > are
                                                                                                                                                                      > > accepted, the work done
                                                                                                                                                                      > > is reviewed and torn apart and put back together
                                                                                                                                                                      > > again, particularly if a
                                                                                                                                                                      > > new genus is being created for the fish or fishes
                                                                                                                                                                      > in
                                                                                                                                                                      > > question. There is a
                                                                                                                                                                      > > problem here when someone who is well known in the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > hobby does the work, and
                                                                                                                                                                      > > hobbyists accept it because this person did it,
                                                                                                                                                                      > > prior to the scientific
                                                                                                                                                                      > > review. This type of behavior only adds to the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > confusion, especially if the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > work is not accepted. This review can take years
                                                                                                                                                                      > to
                                                                                                                                                                      > > complete before it is
                                                                                                                                                                      > > accepted.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > So, if you take and breed a horse and a donkey,
                                                                                                                                                                      > and
                                                                                                                                                                      > > end up with a mule, then
                                                                                                                                                                      > > both the horse and donkey are the same species? I
                                                                                                                                                                      > > think not. There is very
                                                                                                                                                                      > > little genetically that differentiates species.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Something like 97 or 98% of
                                                                                                                                                                      > > our genes are shared with chimpanzees. The group
                                                                                                                                                                      > of
                                                                                                                                                                      > > fish known as swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                      > > and the group of fish known as platys are two
                                                                                                                                                                      > > different fish. Often they are
                                                                                                                                                                      > > not even found in the same type of habitat.
                                                                                                                                                                      > However,
                                                                                                                                                                      > > they can breed and
                                                                                                                                                                      > > produce young. Does this mean that the platy is a
                                                                                                                                                                      > > swordtail that just lacks
                                                                                                                                                                      > > the tail? Or is the swordtail a platy with
                                                                                                                                                                      > extended
                                                                                                                                                                      > > rays in the lower part
                                                                                                                                                                      > > of the caudal fin?
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > If you are as serious about this as you claim to
                                                                                                                                                                      > be
                                                                                                                                                                      > > here, then why don't you
                                                                                                                                                                      > > know this stuff. Hobby is a generic term that
                                                                                                                                                                      > covers
                                                                                                                                                                      > > the neophyte to the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > grand master. All I know who are serious hobbyists
                                                                                                                                                                      > > have no problems with
                                                                                                                                                                      > > using scientific names, yet are knowledgeable
                                                                                                                                                                      > enough
                                                                                                                                                                      > > to tone it down for
                                                                                                                                                                      > > those who are not at their level in the hobby.
                                                                                                                                                                      > They
                                                                                                                                                                      > > don't consider learning
                                                                                                                                                                      > > the science behind what they do to be a wasted
                                                                                                                                                                      > > exertion. Rather it gives
                                                                                                                                                                      > > them a better understanding of what they are
                                                                                                                                                                      > doing,
                                                                                                                                                                      > > and how things fit all
                                                                                                                                                                      > > together. While some are scientists in their own
                                                                                                                                                                      > > right, mostly in fields not
                                                                                                                                                                      > > related to fish keeping, most are not. They are
                                                                                                                                                                      > > plain old ordinary people
                                                                                                                                                                      > > who had a tough time with some of the stuff they
                                                                                                                                                                      > are
                                                                                                                                                                      > > now fluent in while in
                                                                                                                                                                      > > high school. I know a guy from CT who is a tow
                                                                                                                                                                      > truck
                                                                                                                                                                      > > operator. He knows his
                                                                                                                                                                      > > fish, and he can talk water chemistry with the
                                                                                                                                                                      > best
                                                                                                                                                                      > > water chemist and both
                                                                                                                                                                      > > would understand what the other is saying. I know
                                                                                                                                                                      > > another serious aquarist
                                                                                                                                                                      > > from NJ who holds a doctorate in a biological
                                                                                                                                                                      > field
                                                                                                                                                                      > > (I'm not sure which
                                                                                                                                                                      > > one), and yet he has learned how to talk fish with
                                                                                                                                                                      > > all but the newest
                                                                                                                                                                      > > neophyte. (It did not happen overnight, it took
                                                                                                                                                                      > him
                                                                                                                                                                      > > years to learn how to do
                                                                                                                                                                      > > this.) I know a chemist from Pfizer who can spew
                                                                                                                                                                      > > scientific names with the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > best of them, and then sit down and tell a
                                                                                                                                                                      > youngster
                                                                                                                                                                      > > how to set up his first
                                                                                                                                                                      > > tank. The science behind the hobby is very
                                                                                                                                                                      > > important. It is not something to
                                                                                                                                                                      > > be shoved aside. If you are serious, you will
                                                                                                                                                                      > learn
                                                                                                                                                                      > > it. However, if you goal
                                                                                                                                                                      > > is simply to have a nice looking tank in the
                                                                                                                                                                      > living
                                                                                                                                                                      > > room or family room that
                                                                                                                                                                      > > you can enjoy, you don't need to know a lot, just
                                                                                                                                                                      > > enough to keep it going
                                                                                                                                                                      > > and working smoothly. You don't need to get into
                                                                                                                                                                      > the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > intricacies of what is
                                                                                                                                                                      > > named what and why, or the number of synonyms a
                                                                                                                                                                      > fish
                                                                                                                                                                      > > may have, or keep up
                                                                                                                                                                      > > with the latest scientific knowledge about your
                                                                                                                                                                      > > favorite fish or fishes.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                      > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Behalf Of Patrick, the AmericanFishGuy
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 8:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters ->
                                                                                                                                                                      > taxonomy
                                                                                                                                                                      > > is/is not a joke
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > "First of all, taxonomy is not a joke."
                                                                                                                                                                      > > You go on to prove my point...
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > "Thirdly, unlike common names, say, neon tetra,
                                                                                                                                                                      > for
                                                                                                                                                                      > > example, which
                                                                                                                                                                      > > may actually refer to several distinct fish, there
                                                                                                                                                                      > > is a mechanism for
                                                                                                                                                                      > > tracking name changes called synonyms.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > _Paracheirodon innesi_ is
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      === message truncated ===




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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11178 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      If for example you were interested in obtaining some of the more spectacular rainbowfishes from Northern Australia e.g. Melanotaenia trifasciata you might be disappointed if you ordered that species from a catalogue under the common name "banded rainbowfish" without specifying the locality.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      The colour form fromthe Goyder River is brilliantly red and black, while the same species from the nearby Giddy River is blue with red fins, while other streams may have yellow fish or orange fish etc etc. Some forms are mainly olive with reddish fins and so on.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      It's OK when you can go to a club meeting or an aquarium shop and see what you are getting. Also there is the problem of mostly only being able to buy juveniles of many species which may be too immature to show the adult colours or  markings that allow that species or form to be identified.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      I grant you it doesn't usually  ake any difference to how you look after the fish but it certainly matters to some buyers that they get what they think they have paid for.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Cheers
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Bruce (Hansen)
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      ANGFA (Qld) Inc - http://www.angfaqld.org.au/  
                                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 3:18 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] algae eaters

                                                                                                                                                                          It isn't that I simplify things, I just don't have any time for people telling me I need to complicate them.  If I need to know something to keep the fish healthy, that is one thing, but knowing things like species names, family and genus names and the geographical coordinates of the stream where the fish was from is meaningless to me.  It is nice to have such information in books for future reference by scientists, but the average fishkeeper wouldn't know what to do with such useless data.  Lately I've been getting a lot of comments about over-simplifying things.  I think Harry could tell you that I've also gotten comments about how I over-complicate issues from other groups.  I think I say things like I see them.  I could type all day calling fish by scientific name or using big words (I have a college degree, so I know a few of them) and making experts happy at the expense of those who know less than I do.  That isn't me.  It is like I've said before, I'm a teacher, so I want to teach.  Sometimes it sounds like preaching (like now), but I only do it to try to help people.  Right now I'm trying to help people understand that there is nothing wrong with not knowing fish by latin names, or even common names if you have a picture atlas.  If that means I don't sound serious enough, maybe somebody needs to take things less seriously.  Just a thought. :)
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11179 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
                                                                                                                                                                      like wise, people of different ethnic decent are not
                                                                                                                                                                      considered to cross breed, just because they are
                                                                                                                                                                      phenotypically different...so why should taht be the
                                                                                                                                                                      case with anything else. a guppy from srilanka and a
                                                                                                                                                                      mosquito fish are the same damn thing just different
                                                                                                                                                                      colors and sizes because of decent. i am not saying
                                                                                                                                                                      that a fish is a fish, but in families, pat is correct
                                                                                                                                                                      in a sense. we have 98% of the same dna as some other
                                                                                                                                                                      primates, but can't interbreed. so if an animal has
                                                                                                                                                                      to have more than 98% of the same dna...meaning
                                                                                                                                                                      99-100% should they not be deamed the same genetic
                                                                                                                                                                      animal regardless of size and color variations due to
                                                                                                                                                                      difference of environment?
                                                                                                                                                                      --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                                                      <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > Well, Endler's and Guppies breed well together,
                                                                                                                                                                      > and their offspring can
                                                                                                                                                                      > also breed with each other, so they must genetically
                                                                                                                                                                      > be the same fish.
                                                                                                                                                                      > Swordtails are platies with an extended fin. They
                                                                                                                                                                      > breed, and their
                                                                                                                                                                      > offspring can breed, so they are genetically the
                                                                                                                                                                      > same fish in my opinion.
                                                                                                                                                                      > If their offspring could not breed (like mules),
                                                                                                                                                                      > they would be different
                                                                                                                                                                      > species. Breeding is the ultimate genetic test, in
                                                                                                                                                                      > my opinion. I thought I
                                                                                                                                                                      > learned that in my freshman biology class in
                                                                                                                                                                      > college. I know just enough
                                                                                                                                                                      > about the system to know that scientists don't all
                                                                                                                                                                      > agree with it.
                                                                                                                                                                      > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.



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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11180 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                      Bruce,

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      You are correct in a way that surface agitation does get rid of excess CO2 from the water. But it still has to settle an equilibrium with the CO2 concentration in the air? It cannot rid the water if 100% CO2 and if a water has zero CO2, surface agitation will add some CO2 to the water to make this equilibrium. I don’t really know what the equation for the equilibrium is, but it does work.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bruce Hansen
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: 08 May 2005 04:36
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      My understanding has always been that agitation of the surface caused CO2 to be lost from solution and increased oxygen solution, although of course the 2 processes are essentially independent.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Cheers

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Bruce (Hansen)

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      ANGFA (Qld) Inc - http://www.angfaqld.org.au/

                                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 9:33 AM

                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Bit confusion here I think.

                                                                                                                                                                      Dissolved CO2 in the water is governed partially by PH or vice versa but that is when the equilibrium between the atmosphere and water is not maintained. When we talk about calculating how much CO2 is in the water, this CO2 we are talking about is the one that is in transition between CO2+H2O and the carbonic acid. The pure Co2 dissolving capacity of water is not really 100% governed by PH I think. Temperature however can have a major governing factor on this.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      I am not a chemist either so I am also looking forward to everyone’s views on this J

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                                                      From: Fish Bloke [mailto:fishbloke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: 09 April 2005 06:08
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Fair enough.  I am here to learn, can you expand.  Was everything I said wrong, or just that bit.  :^)

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Phil.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                      From: Liz Wilhite

                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 1:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      On Apr 8, 2005 7:22 PM, Fish Bloke <fishbloke@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      I am no chemist, but I think the idea of pH having a bearing on how much CO2 water can hold is wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      I am a Ph.D. chemist.  You are dead wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Liz

                                                                                                                                                                       



                                                                                                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11181 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                      Nan,

                                                                                                                                                                      I am well aware of the different betta species. I participated in the first
                                                                                                                                                                      publication on the "wild" betta species. Since that was written back in the
                                                                                                                                                                      late 70's, there have been many more betta species found and described. I
                                                                                                                                                                      did think about that in writing my post, but decided to forego that as
                                                                                                                                                                      adding more complexity to the arguments and the fact that a lot of people
                                                                                                                                                                      here now the varieties of _Betta splendens_ but not the actual progenitor of
                                                                                                                                                                      the varieties.

                                                                                                                                                                      BTW, I still have the original text of the wild betta species manuscript on
                                                                                                                                                                      disk around here somewhere--in WordStar format.

                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                      ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 2:16 AM
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters


                                                                                                                                                                      All that is fine and dandy, Steve, however, you did make a mistake with the
                                                                                                                                                                      bettas. There are several different types of Bettas in the Betta Species,
                                                                                                                                                                      and B. Splendas came from wild b. splendas, the variation of color comes
                                                                                                                                                                      from that. But if you look around the web (and if it wasn't after 2 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                      as I write this I would site them myself) there are several classifications
                                                                                                                                                                      for different types or species of the bettas. Just letting you
                                                                                                                                                                      know............oh, and btw. they each have their own scientific name as
                                                                                                                                                                      well.

                                                                                                                                                                      Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                      First of all, taxonomy is not a joke. It is a way of classifying
                                                                                                                                                                      every
                                                                                                                                                                      living thing on this planet (at least on this planet for now).
                                                                                                                                                                      Secondly, the
                                                                                                                                                                      names are NOT Latin. They are a mix of Latin, Greek, and many other
                                                                                                                                                                      languages. They are known as scientific names, and they follow
                                                                                                                                                                      fairly strict
                                                                                                                                                                      rules when naming an organism. Thirdly, unlike common names, say,
                                                                                                                                                                      neon
                                                                                                                                                                      tetra, for example, which may actually refer to several distinct
                                                                                                                                                                      fish, there
                                                                                                                                                                      is a mechanism for tracking name changes called synonyms.
                                                                                                                                                                      _Paracheirodon
                                                                                                                                                                      innesi_ is the "real" neon tetra, named after William T. Innes, BTW,
                                                                                                                                                                      was
                                                                                                                                                                      formerly known as _Hyphessobrycon innesi_. The change of the
                                                                                                                                                                      scientific name
                                                                                                                                                                      was made when further studies showed that the fish differed from
                                                                                                                                                                      those other
                                                                                                                                                                      fish in the _Hyphessobrycon_ genus to rate a genus of their own. All
                                                                                                                                                                      nice
                                                                                                                                                                      and neat, the whole thing is.

                                                                                                                                                                      Oh, what are the other fish that have been commonly known as neon
                                                                                                                                                                      tetras?
                                                                                                                                                                      _Paracheirodon axelrodi_ is one, mostly known as the cardinal tetra
                                                                                                                                                                      (and
                                                                                                                                                                      named after Herbert Axelrod, and _Paracheirodon simulans_, which is
                                                                                                                                                                      also
                                                                                                                                                                      known as the green neon tetra because it lacks any red coloration.

                                                                                                                                                                      The betta you refer to is a whole other story. The ones people think
                                                                                                                                                                      of are
                                                                                                                                                                      the long finned variety with a great number of colors to chose from.
                                                                                                                                                                      These
                                                                                                                                                                      are descended from a "wild" stock of fish that are multi-colored,
                                                                                                                                                                      and have
                                                                                                                                                                      short fins and rounded tails and, yes, you can actually get those
                                                                                                                                                                      fish also.
                                                                                                                                                                      They have as much right to be called bettas as the fancy varieties
                                                                                                                                                                      do also.
                                                                                                                                                                      Are they the same fish? They sure are, but that steel blue betta you
                                                                                                                                                                      bought
                                                                                                                                                                      in a bowl at the fish place has been bred from that wild stock to
                                                                                                                                                                      look as
                                                                                                                                                                      they do. However, to the scientist they are the same fish, probably
                                                                                                                                                                      not even
                                                                                                                                                                      worth a sub species designation.

                                                                                                                                                                      If you are serious about this hobby, you will learn about scientific
                                                                                                                                                                      names.
                                                                                                                                                                      Some fish are only known by scientific names in the hobby--there is
                                                                                                                                                                      no
                                                                                                                                                                      common name for them.

                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                      ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 1:52 AM
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters


                                                                                                                                                                      Taxonomy is a joke, in my opinion. If common names are removed
                                                                                                                                                                      and all
                                                                                                                                                                      fish are labeled by latin names, the entire aquarium industry will
                                                                                                                                                                      quickly
                                                                                                                                                                      die as people are turned off by the fact that they don't know what
                                                                                                                                                                      they are
                                                                                                                                                                      buying. NOBODY SPEAKS LATIN BUT OLD RICH GUYS (doctors, biologists,
                                                                                                                                                                      and
                                                                                                                                                                      priests)! Who wants to buy a b. splendens? People want bettas.

                                                                                                                                                                      :)
                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      L numbers have been around since 1988. They were introduced in
                                                                                                                                                                      anticipation
                                                                                                                                                                      of a large number of undescribed species of Loricarid catfish that
                                                                                                                                                                      were
                                                                                                                                                                      being discovered. The introduction of L numbers was to avoid giving
                                                                                                                                                                      "trade
                                                                                                                                                                      (common) names" to the species, a very variable and subjective way
                                                                                                                                                                      of naming
                                                                                                                                                                      fish. A species can have 3, 4, 5 or more common names. I've seen the
                                                                                                                                                                      same
                                                                                                                                                                      fish with a new common name on a subsequent shipment from the
                                                                                                                                                                      wholesaler to
                                                                                                                                                                      a shop.
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11182 From: Esther Souverein Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Fin rot??

                                                                                                                                                                      I think it is likely that the Serpae Tetras are the culprits here. You say you have 4; I don’t think that’s enough to stop them bothering the rest. In my opinion, a good number would be at least 7, if your tanksize allows that.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      You could try monitoring them a while though, before you decide to make alterations. Just sit in front of the tank long enough for the fish to forget you’re there and observe their behaviour.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Good luck, Esther.


                                                                                                                                                                      Van: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] Namens Dawana B
                                                                                                                                                                      Verzonden: zaterdag 7 mei 2005 17:50
                                                                                                                                                                      Aan: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Onderwerp: [AquaticLife] Fin rot??

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      I've just noticed that one of my older black skirt tetras looks as if she's missing part of her tail (she's a long-fin type).  Is it possible that she has fin rot?  She appears to be eating and socializing well.  I don't have any other fish that are bigger, she's one of the biggest.  I do have 4 serpae tetras in the tank (29 gal), but there are 7 black skirt tetras.  The other inhabitants are: cories (8), otos (4), endlers, male only (7), amano shrimp (4), danios (7), and neons (10ish).  It's a well planted tank, all parameters zero, pH is 7.2, well established. Most recent occupants are 4 cories and about 8 neons.

                                                                                                                                                                      I'm really confused as to what could be happening to her/his(lol) tail.  I realize the serpae tetras are fin nippers, but I thought with their number, they would leave everyone else alone.  I see them chasing each other all the time.

                                                                                                                                                                      Should I quarantine the black skiirt tetra and treat? or should I add more serape tetras? or just continue to monitor?

                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks for your advice in advance!

                                                                                                                                                                      -Dawana

                                                                                                                                                                      P.S.  I realize my tank is over-stocked based on the 1" rule.  Novices should not try this.  I'm extremely over-filtered, well-planted, and I change my water regularly and monitor it religiously. Many thanks!



                                                                                                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      .
                                                                                                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11183 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                      wow wordstar  thats showing your age  LOL

                                                                                                                                                                      haven't seen that for ever..
                                                                                                                                                                      still got software? don't think I have seen something to open wordstar  since my commodore64  days LMAO

                                                                                                                                                                      rob
                                                                                                                                                                      Indiana

                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/8/2005 7:27:34 AM US Eastern Standard Time, steve@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                      BTW, I still have the original text of the wild betta species manuscript on
                                                                                                                                                                      disk around here somewhere--in WordStar format.

                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//


                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11184 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Fin rot??
                                                                                                                                                                      I'd QT the injured fish and watch her, if the tail starts to fin rot treat but clean water and time should allow her to heal by herself.

                                                                                                                                                                      Serpae tetras are notorious fin nippers and even when kept in larger schools will still nip... I have 20 in a school and no matter what I do I still get nipped fish.  Beautiful fish, that have eventually gotten there own tank.... They even nip my bristlenose so becareful with the Oto's.

                                                                                                                                                                      rob
                                                                                                                                                                      Indiana








                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/8/2005 7:38:12 AM US Eastern Standard Time, e.lommers1@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                      Is it possible that she has fin rot?  She appears to be eating and socializing well.  I don't have any other fish that are bigger, she's one of the biggest.  I do have 4 serpae tetras in the tank (29 gal), but there are 7 black skirt tetras.  The other inhabitants are: cories (8), otos (4), endlers, male only (7), amano shrimp (4), danios (7), and neons (10ish).  It's a well planted tank, all parameters zero, pH is 7.2, well established. Most recent occupants are 4 cories and about 8 neons.


                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11185 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      Nan,

                                                                                                                                                                      I used to use the Yale and Harvard libraries quite a bit for that kind of
                                                                                                                                                                      stuff (time wise they were equidistant from where I was living). Now, I live
                                                                                                                                                                      way too far away for those libraries. I use mainly online sources now. When
                                                                                                                                                                      you do a Google search, you may find good sources if the domain ends in edu.
                                                                                                                                                                      There are also a good number of science publications on the net, some which
                                                                                                                                                                      require subscriptions for access and others that don't. One of my clients
                                                                                                                                                                      publishes a magazine known as _Science News_, so if I find a reference that
                                                                                                                                                                      requires a subscription, I can usually find the publication in their library
                                                                                                                                                                      and read it on my own time. They are nice enough to allow me access. I've
                                                                                                                                                                      not yet had the time or the need to check out other resources in this area
                                                                                                                                                                      such as the Smithsonian, though I have made the effort to get to know some
                                                                                                                                                                      of the people who work there. Not only do they have publications, but they
                                                                                                                                                                      have preserved specimens.

                                                                                                                                                                      I don't know where you live, but there may be a university near you that you
                                                                                                                                                                      can get access to their libraries, though it has gotten tougher to do over
                                                                                                                                                                      the last several years without having some sort of relationship with the
                                                                                                                                                                      university.


                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//



                                                                                                                                                                      ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 2:18 AM
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pacu 911


                                                                                                                                                                      Thank you Patrick. I will keep that in mind...*S* And later when I can
                                                                                                                                                                      keep my eyes open and not fall asleep at the keyboard (late at night!), I
                                                                                                                                                                      would like to know where I can find some of those research articles and peer
                                                                                                                                                                      reviewed articles.*grin*
                                                                                                                                                                      Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      "Patrick, American Fish Guy" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                      It happens to me too. I plan to cite a source only to find
                                                                                                                                                                      out it says I'm wrong. That is when I quit posting on the subject. :) Just
                                                                                                                                                                      joking. Actually, the first source I found said omnivore that likes feeder
                                                                                                                                                                      fish. I almost thought I had gotten it way off, and then I found that
                                                                                                                                                                      research article. Rule number one of research: Research articles are more
                                                                                                                                                                      trustworthy than web sites, and peer reviewed articles are even better. :)

                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.

                                                                                                                                                                      Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more
                                                                                                                                                                      money!
                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      I'll Be.........After reading your post, Patrick, I was quick to
                                                                                                                                                                      jump on the "Says WHO?" band wagon, but ya know, your right they are
                                                                                                                                                                      suppossed to be herbivores, I have been mislead! I decided to site my own
                                                                                                                                                                      sources as to what the Pacu eats, to prove you wrong, Patrick, but alllll
                                                                                                                                                                      over the place I am seeing that they prefer hard nut like vegetation in the
                                                                                                                                                                      wild and that they will eat anything they can. I was right about them being
                                                                                                                                                                      related to the Pirannah family though!*LOL* Forgive my ignorance. I just
                                                                                                                                                                      know what I had learned from before. My bad! Let me list a few sources for
                                                                                                                                                                      those who don't believe me (and I guess Patrick, too...*LOL*)!

                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/wild/pacu.htm
                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/pacu-red.htm
                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.postring.net/pacu/

                                                                                                                                                                      Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11186 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: WAS RE: Hi again I ne.. (HEATERS )
                                                                                                                                                                      Steve, To help you out, William T. Innes ("Exotic Aquarium Fishes",
                                                                                                                                                                      19th Edition - Pg. 13) wrote a general guide recommending the heater
                                                                                                                                                                      wattage to use in relationship with the gallonage and the ambient
                                                                                                                                                                      temperature.
                                                                                                                                                                      He wrote: "The common question as to what sized heater is required
                                                                                                                                                                      for a given gallon capacity cannot be intelligently answered without
                                                                                                                                                                      knowing the amount of cold to be overcome. A good general rule is 2
                                                                                                                                                                      watts for raising each gallon 5 degrees above surrounding
                                                                                                                                                                      temperature. That is, if a 10 gallon tank is to be raised 5 degrees,
                                                                                                                                                                      use 20 watts. For 10 degrees, 40 watts. We favor conservative sized
                                                                                                                                                                      heating units. Then if a thermostat fails to function, the fishes
                                                                                                                                                                      are not likely to be 'cooked'".
                                                                                                                                                                      Not sure if this is what you were thinking of. Offhand, I don't
                                                                                                                                                                      remember reading of a table on this, but then its very possible
                                                                                                                                                                      someone else did come up with something to this effect. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                      \
                                                                                                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > Actually, the number of watts per gallon should be determined by the
                                                                                                                                                                      > difference in the ambient air temperature and the temperature at
                                                                                                                                                                      which you
                                                                                                                                                                      > wish to keep your water at. The larger the difference, the more
                                                                                                                                                                      watts you
                                                                                                                                                                      > need to maintain the temperature. It seems to me that someone had
                                                                                                                                                                      once
                                                                                                                                                                      > worked up a table showing this, but I'll be dogoned if I can
                                                                                                                                                                      remember who or
                                                                                                                                                                      > where I saw it.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      > Behalf Of FortWayneFish@a...
                                                                                                                                                                      > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 9:56 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: [AquaticLife] WAS RE: Hi again I ne.. (HEATERS )
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > I quoted a Brand name Heater companies suggestions on this. (
                                                                                                                                                                      wattage per
                                                                                                                                                                      > gallon )
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Myself i have a 200W in a 75 as a main heater and a 100 watt
                                                                                                                                                                      backup.. My 55
                                                                                                                                                                      > gallon tanks have 150Watt heaters, and they all work great. I think
                                                                                                                                                                      the
                                                                                                                                                                      > Industry standard is looking for more watts because it means more
                                                                                                                                                                      $$ in
                                                                                                                                                                      > there pockets...
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > I ran (2) 75 watt heaters in a 55 gallon tank for almost 4 years
                                                                                                                                                                      with no
                                                                                                                                                                      > problems, but in the move I replaced all my heaters as they where
                                                                                                                                                                      getting
                                                                                                                                                                      > old.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Still have them as backups someplace in this Jungle of airline, and
                                                                                                                                                                      > extension cords LOL But My room stays pretty constant in the lower
                                                                                                                                                                      70's-mid
                                                                                                                                                                      > 70's all year long. And I run all my tanks at an average of 75* F
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > rob
                                                                                                                                                                      > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > In a message dated 5/7/2005 8:48:08 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                                      > wtfmorlok@y... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > 100 watt. For 5 to 20 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > 200 watt. For 20 to 40 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > 300 watt. For 40 to 75 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > 400watt. For 75 to 120 gallon aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > rob
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                      > > USA
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11187 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      Agreed, Pacu's will take a bite out of anything (of a vegetative
                                                                                                                                                                      nature), such as a piece of fruit that has fallen into the water.
                                                                                                                                                                      Same as a goldfish would, or as a number of members on this forum are
                                                                                                                                                                      starting to feed their fish zucinni and/or cucumber. This is not to
                                                                                                                                                                      say that Cory catfish will take a bite out of another fish. Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                      are not inclined to tear a larger fish up, nor are they equipped to
                                                                                                                                                                      do so. Larger fish are not in their diet. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                      \
                                                                                                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > except that a pacu will take bites out of anything in
                                                                                                                                                                      > its midst, unlike an oscar who will only generally eat
                                                                                                                                                                      > what fits in its mouth.
                                                                                                                                                                      > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Nan, In the scientific community, Pacu's are
                                                                                                                                                                      > > categorized as
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Herbivores; their diet consisting mainly of plant
                                                                                                                                                                      > > material. While
                                                                                                                                                                      > > they are in the same family as Piranhas, that family
                                                                                                                                                                      > > also includes
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Silver Dollars (Piranha-like herbivores) as well as
                                                                                                                                                                      > > the Neon,
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Cardinal and all other community tank Tetras. They
                                                                                                                                                                      > > are also related
                                                                                                                                                                      > > to freshwater Trout and Salmon, and yes, the feared
                                                                                                                                                                      > > African Tiger
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Fish (Hydrocynus) of which there are about six
                                                                                                                                                                      > > species in the genus,
                                                                                                                                                                      > > one getting to 12 feet and known to pull African
                                                                                                                                                                      > > fisherman into the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > river -- by the legs, not by the line! Like most
                                                                                                                                                                      > > other fish, Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                      > > are opportunists and if a fish will fit in its mouth
                                                                                                                                                                      > > it will eat it.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > In that respect you could say its an Omnivore, but
                                                                                                                                                                      > > again, most any
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Herbivore will take in a fish if its small enough to
                                                                                                                                                                      > > fit in its
                                                                                                                                                                      > > mouth. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > \
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      > > <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Pacu's Herbivores????? That is a new one to me,
                                                                                                                                                                      > > since they are in
                                                                                                                                                                      > > the same family, I believe and I could be wrong, as
                                                                                                                                                                      > > priannah
                                                                                                                                                                      > > (spelling sucks tonight, sorry!). In fact, they are
                                                                                                                                                                      > > very much a
                                                                                                                                                                      > > carnivore. Many breeders I know keep them or Oscars
                                                                                                                                                                      > > for when they
                                                                                                                                                                      > > cull their fry, and use the fry as food for them.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > This was back before I knew better. :) When I
                                                                                                                                                                      > > bought the pacu, it
                                                                                                                                                                      > > was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > the same size as the tiger barbs I had. When it
                                                                                                                                                                      > > quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > other fish, I didn't think it would eat them -
                                                                                                                                                                      > > pacus are supposed
                                                                                                                                                                      > > to be
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > herbivores, after all.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > tank he
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > because he had gotten big enough that he was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > the tank (as well as the other fish - I
                                                                                                                                                                      > > actually
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > > Here's a photo that might help.he seems to
                                                                                                                                                                      > > be
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Hilton.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > > whole thing was given away.i thought they
                                                                                                                                                                      > > would
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > > have enough room. Plants are good hiding
                                                                                                                                                                      > > places
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > > rock
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > > with the hole in it.but back to what can I
                                                                                                                                                                      > > do for
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > > > him Emily
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                                                                                      > > when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                      > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                      > > that is not
                                                                                                                                                                      > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of
                                                                                                                                                                      > > the original
                                                                                                                                                                      > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject
                                                                                                                                                                      > > (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                      > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help
                                                                                                                                                                      > > in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11188 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                      Rob,

                                                                                                                                                                      Yes. In fact, I have a copy of WordStar on a bootable DOS partition. Haven't
                                                                                                                                                                      used it in ages, though. The reason I keep that bootable DOS partition is
                                                                                                                                                                      that one of these days I am going to go through all of the old disks and
                                                                                                                                                                      transfer the files to a more modern format. Unfortunately, that has not yet
                                                                                                                                                                      happened. I even have a spare 5 1/4 floppy drive hanging around for the job.
                                                                                                                                                                      Just hope it still works when I get around to it.

                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                      ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 8:38 AM
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters


                                                                                                                                                                      wow wordstar thats showing your age LOL

                                                                                                                                                                      haven't seen that for ever..
                                                                                                                                                                      still got software? don't think I have seen something to open wordstar
                                                                                                                                                                      since my commodore64 days LMAO

                                                                                                                                                                      rob
                                                                                                                                                                      Indiana

                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/8/2005 7:27:34 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                                      steve@... writes:




                                                                                                                                                                      BTW, I still have the original text of the wild betta species
                                                                                                                                                                      manuscript on
                                                                                                                                                                      disk around here somewhere--in WordStar format.

                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11189 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: WAS RE: Hi again I ne.. (HEATERS )
                                                                                                                                                                      Ray,

                                                                                                                                                                      Oooo, good. I don't think I would have looked that far back. Good memory
                                                                                                                                                                      jog. I do recall seeing a table based on temperatures and tank size that
                                                                                                                                                                      someone worked out. It may well have been in a club publication. Its
                                                                                                                                                                      terrible when you can recall having seen something, but that is all you can
                                                                                                                                                                      recall <g>.

                                                                                                                                                                      The Innes book (19th Edition, revised) is one I can recommend to anyone
                                                                                                                                                                      looking for information. Good solid information in that book, though some
                                                                                                                                                                      of the information concerning the fish covered has changed in the
                                                                                                                                                                      intervening years since publication. The information on setting up and
                                                                                                                                                                      maintaining an aquarium is invaluable, even though some of those methods
                                                                                                                                                                      have changed over the years.

                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 8:50 AM
                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: WAS RE: Hi again I ne.. (HEATERS )

                                                                                                                                                                      Steve, To help you out, William T. Innes ("Exotic Aquarium Fishes",
                                                                                                                                                                      19th Edition - Pg. 13) wrote a general guide recommending the heater
                                                                                                                                                                      wattage to use in relationship with the gallonage and the ambient
                                                                                                                                                                      temperature.
                                                                                                                                                                      He wrote: "The common question as to what sized heater is required
                                                                                                                                                                      for a given gallon capacity cannot be intelligently answered without
                                                                                                                                                                      knowing the amount of cold to be overcome. A good general rule is 2
                                                                                                                                                                      watts for raising each gallon 5 degrees above surrounding
                                                                                                                                                                      temperature. That is, if a 10 gallon tank is to be raised 5 degrees,
                                                                                                                                                                      use 20 watts. For 10 degrees, 40 watts. We favor conservative sized
                                                                                                                                                                      heating units. Then if a thermostat fails to function, the fishes
                                                                                                                                                                      are not likely to be 'cooked'".
                                                                                                                                                                      Not sure if this is what you were thinking of. Offhand, I don't
                                                                                                                                                                      remember reading of a table on this, but then its very possible
                                                                                                                                                                      someone else did come up with something to this effect. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                      \
                                                                                                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > Actually, the number of watts per gallon should be determined by the
                                                                                                                                                                      > difference in the ambient air temperature and the temperature at
                                                                                                                                                                      which you
                                                                                                                                                                      > wish to keep your water at. The larger the difference, the more
                                                                                                                                                                      watts you
                                                                                                                                                                      > need to maintain the temperature. It seems to me that someone had
                                                                                                                                                                      once
                                                                                                                                                                      > worked up a table showing this, but I'll be dogoned if I can
                                                                                                                                                                      remember who or
                                                                                                                                                                      > where I saw it.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                      > Behalf Of FortWayneFish@a...
                                                                                                                                                                      > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 9:56 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: [AquaticLife] WAS RE: Hi again I ne.. (HEATERS )
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > I quoted a Brand name Heater companies suggestions on this. (
                                                                                                                                                                      wattage per
                                                                                                                                                                      > gallon )
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Myself i have a 200W in a 75 as a main heater and a 100 watt
                                                                                                                                                                      backup.. My 55
                                                                                                                                                                      > gallon tanks have 150Watt heaters, and they all work great. I think
                                                                                                                                                                      the
                                                                                                                                                                      > Industry standard is looking for more watts because it means more
                                                                                                                                                                      $$ in
                                                                                                                                                                      > there pockets...
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > I ran (2) 75 watt heaters in a 55 gallon tank for almost 4 years
                                                                                                                                                                      with no
                                                                                                                                                                      > problems, but in the move I replaced all my heaters as they where
                                                                                                                                                                      getting
                                                                                                                                                                      > old.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Still have them as backups someplace in this Jungle of airline, and
                                                                                                                                                                      > extension cords LOL But My room stays pretty constant in the lower
                                                                                                                                                                      70's-mid
                                                                                                                                                                      > 70's all year long. And I run all my tanks at an average of 75* F
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > rob
                                                                                                                                                                      > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > In a message dated 5/7/2005 8:48:08 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                                      > wtfmorlok@y... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > 100 watt. For 5 to 20 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > 200 watt. For 20 to 40 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > 300 watt. For 40 to 75 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > 400watt. For 75 to 120 gallon aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > rob
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                      > > USA
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11190 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                      While not wanting to get too "scientific", but feeling the need to
                                                                                                                                                                      clarify this situation, both Pacus and Tetras are classified as
                                                                                                                                                                      Characoids. Presently, 14 Families are found in this grouping
                                                                                                                                                                      (condensed from the 16 Families classified by Weitzman and
                                                                                                                                                                      Greenwood). While Pacus are in the Family Serrasalmidae, (consisting
                                                                                                                                                                      of 3 sub-Families), they are further removed from the sub-Family
                                                                                                                                                                      Serrasalminae (Piranhas), by belonging to the sub-Family Myleinae,
                                                                                                                                                                      classified as herbivores but which can be opportunistic in that they
                                                                                                                                                                      will take small whole fish on occasion. While Silver Dollars are
                                                                                                                                                                      also in this Family, they are also further removed as being in this
                                                                                                                                                                      sub-Family (Myleinae). The Red-Bellied Pacu (Colossoma bidens) does
                                                                                                                                                                      seem "in-between", as even though its in the same Genus as other
                                                                                                                                                                      Pacus, the maxillary (jaw) bone is provided with teeth. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                      \
                                                                                                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > pacus are not actually tetras, but are in the same
                                                                                                                                                                      > family. they are charaacoids which encompases 6
                                                                                                                                                                      > families. the tetras are in the family or characidae,
                                                                                                                                                                      > while pacus are serrasalmidae, with pirranhas and
                                                                                                                                                                      > silver dolars. while you may see them listed as
                                                                                                                                                                      > herbivores, there are dozens of fish sold as pacus,
                                                                                                                                                                      > just so that everyone is aware. red bellied pacus are
                                                                                                                                                                      > not technically "pacus" or "piranhas"they are
                                                                                                                                                                      > somewhere in between.
                                                                                                                                                                      > --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                                                      > <patrickmn1@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Pacus are tetras, not Cichlids, and they are in
                                                                                                                                                                      > > fact mostly herbivores,
                                                                                                                                                                      > > but will eat small fish. Like all large fish, it
                                                                                                                                                                      > > will eat whatever is given
                                                                                                                                                                      > > to it, but from what I've read, in the wild they eat
                                                                                                                                                                      > > mostly plants. Like
                                                                                                                                                                      > > all large fish, the myth is spread that they eat
                                                                                                                                                                      > > mostly meat to increase the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > sale of feeder fish. They also belong in rivers,
                                                                                                                                                                      > > ponds, and lakes, not
                                                                                                                                                                      > > aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      > > no, they are quite aggressive omnivores actually.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > unlike most cichlids, they are not naturally
                                                                                                                                                                      > > aggressive herbivores
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11191 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Mystery snails eggs have hatched
                                                                                                                                                                      Yeah I plan on putting them in my tank once there big enough to not
                                                                                                                                                                      get lost in the rocks. I could get a 10 gallon for $10.00 at the store
                                                                                                                                                                      but that doesn't have a lid. They are doing great and growing fast.
                                                                                                                                                                      3rd clutch hatched last night. Still need to get the liquid calcium
                                                                                                                                                                      (don't have a car and haven't found a ride there yet) so I've been
                                                                                                                                                                      putting in the crushed egg shells. (It's hard work crushing those
                                                                                                                                                                      stupid shells.)


                                                                                                                                                                      > I am so glad that this is working out for you. I would suggest when
                                                                                                                                                                      you do move them to an aquarium, use a bare bottom tank (no gravel),
                                                                                                                                                                      it will be so much easier to clean.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > Once the clutches look moldy I moved them into a plastic shoe box
                                                                                                                                                                      > thingy for a temp home until they get a little bigger. And tonight
                                                                                                                                                                      > another one hatched about 30 it was a small clutch.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > lucky you.. I never get to see my baby snails they just fall back in
                                                                                                                                                                      > my
                                                                                                                                                                      > > tank.. I have seen I think 2 lol but I wonder how they survive the
                                                                                                                                                                      > water changes
                                                                                                                                                                      > > lol Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                      > > just to let you guys know my clutches arrived and one has hatched
                                                                                                                                                                      > > out about 50 babies. They are so cute and keep changing colors. I
                                                                                                                                                                      love
                                                                                                                                                                      > > them.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      > .
                                                                                                                                                                      > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                      important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                      message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                      subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11192 From: JOHN BERG Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Fwd: Unsubscvribe
                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :


                                                                                                                                                                        Note: forwarded message attached.
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11193 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Fwd: Unsubscvribe

                                                                                                                                                                        Well how nice.  Apparently the members aren’t smart enough to delete things below the line.  Hmmmm.

                                                                                                                                                                        FYI  If you want to “unsuscvribe”, you do it yourself through the “my groups” in Yahoo.  That too just takes a bit of reading.  =P

                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Fwd: Unsubscvribe

                                                                                                                                                                         



                                                                                                                                                                        Note: forwarded message attached.

                                                                                                                                                                        ·        

                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11194 From: kb1dva Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: simplifying

                                                                                                                                                                        A hobby is supposed to be fun, rewarding. I know for a lot of people that means complicating things. But what’s wrong with just enjoying it, in this case caring for your fish, watching them swimming around being happy, health fish. As far as I’m concern keep it simple. There are things that need to be complicated lets keep them down to a dull roar                  Emily Boston fish person!

                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11195 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Fwd: Unsubscvribe

                                                                                                                                                                        Well I now see that he did in fact send this to the right place but that it somehow got to the group?  Well that makes me look rather brilliant now doesn’t it?   =)

                                                                                                                                                                        So why was this forwarded?

                                                                                                                                                                        L

                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                        Have kids stuff?  Want $$$ for it?  Check out Zainy Zebra Consignment!  Based in Cabot, AR  www.ZainyZebra.com

                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                        Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                        Live in Little Rock?  Little Rock Garage Sale!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                                        ·         -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11196 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Fin rot??
                                                                                                                                                                        I had a tail and fin rot in my goldfish aquarium a couple years ago. I added tetracycline and it cleared up; Maracyn2 (I think) also works
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                        FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        I'd QT the injured fish and watch her, if the tail starts to fin rot treat but clean water and time should allow her to heal by herself.

                                                                                                                                                                        Serpae tetras are notorious fin nippers and even when kept in larger schools will still nip... I have 20 in a school and no matter what I do I still get nipped fish.  Beautiful fish, that have eventually gotten there own tank.... They even nip my bristlenose so becareful with the Oto's.
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11197 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Scorpions?
                                                                                                                                                                        yeah I have quite a collection :)
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                        Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                        You have scorpions?  On purpose? Lol 

                                                                                                                                                                        ooooh honey not me!  They�d get smooshed! =)  I�m getting the heeby jeebies. 

                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                        Have kids stuff?  Want $$$ for it?  Check out Zainy Zebra Consignment!  Based in Cabot, AR  www.ZainyZebra.com

                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                        Live in or near Cabot?  Like Cheap/Free stuff?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                        Live in Little Rock?  Little Rock Garage Sale!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                        From:
                                                                                                                                                                        AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 4:42 PM
                                                                                                                                                                        To:
                                                                                                                                                                        AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                        Sub
                                                                                                                                                                        ject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hi again I need to have something Please help

                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                        I use play sand for my scorpions. Not as sensative as a fish, I suppose, but I've never had a problem. I think it's safe most likely.

                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                        Charlene <muffin4494@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                        Hi Can anyone tell me " What kind of play sand I can use." In my 55
                                                                                                                                                                        ga tank.

                                                                                                                                                                        I have " Kiddlies fun play sand" It is orange and gress lable
                                                                                                                                                                        on it. It all so say on it " Ideal for building and mounding"
                                                                                                                                                                        Can I usa this sand.

                                                                                                                                                                        And how much sand should I ues for my 55 ga tank.



                                                                                                                                                                        Thank you for helping me Charlene
                                                                                                                                                                        muffin4494@...







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                                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that ! is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter





                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11198 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                                        A couple of weeks ago I set up a new 55 gal tank with an undergravel filter plus a side filter (the waterfall kind). I added some water from my established goldfish aquarium and a bit of the gravel as well. I added some live plants, 4 rosy red minnows to get it cycling and some small snails.
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        However, since it's going to be a goldfish tank, I decided about a week ago to add 2 medium comets and one tiny goldfish (the size of a minnow) because I thought that might speed up the cycle since the comets produce more waste than the rosy red minnows. I realized now that I might have added too many fish too soon. I have one large black moor and a medium bluescale oranda that I intend to add after it's cycled.
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        I've been checking the water chemistry and the ammonia levels are down, but nitrites are up to 3ppm (stress zone). I did a 20% water change and then a 10% water change with a gravel vacuum and added stress zyme. I'm wondering what I else I can do to get along with the cycle and drive down the nitrites. Nitrates are only at 30 ppm so far. pH is 6.4, alkalinity is 0 and the water is hard. I've been adding salt at a rate of 0.5 tsp/gal because I read that it helps detoxify nitrites. I had a bag of zeolite in the tank for a while but removed it because I was adding salt. I have 2 zeolite and 2 carbon cartridges in the under gravel filter and a regular carbon cartridge in the side filter.
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks a lot for your help,
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11199 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: simplifying
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily,

                                                                                                                                                                        Ahhhh! A Boston person. You been to a BAS meeting yet? If not, contact me
                                                                                                                                                                        off list and I'll get you the info on their next meeting.

                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of kb1dva
                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 4:21 PM
                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] simplifying



                                                                                                                                                                        A hobby is supposed to be fun, rewarding. I know for a lot of people that
                                                                                                                                                                        means complicating things. But what's wrong with just enjoying it, in this
                                                                                                                                                                        case caring for your fish, watching them swimming around being happy, health
                                                                                                                                                                        fish. As far as I'm concern keep it simple. There are things that need to be
                                                                                                                                                                        complicated lets keep them down to a dull roar Emily Boston
                                                                                                                                                                        fish person!



                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                        the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                        subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                        in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________

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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11200 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Fwd: Unsubscvribe
                                                                                                                                                                        If you ask me, this guy is what is called a "troll" that never posts on a forum and then suddenly posts something like this.  They are typically criminals, prisoners, SPAMers, and other people who are neither polite nor functional members of society.  As you noticed, he can't even spell unsubscribe.  There is also a good chance it was sent from a virus and not this person.  In that case, we should all hope we didn't get his virus!
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                        Well I now see that he did in fact send this to the right place but that it somehow got to the group?  Well that makes me look rather brilliant now doesn’t it?   =)
                                                                                                                                                                        So why was this forwarded?
                                                                                                                                                                        L
                                                                                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11201 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        you are stopping teh tank from cycling and are going
                                                                                                                                                                        to cause yourself problems. the zeolite pulls out
                                                                                                                                                                        ammonia which is the food source for teh bacteria that
                                                                                                                                                                        are trying to grow and establish themselves. if you
                                                                                                                                                                        are actually running zeolite and have nitrites at 3,
                                                                                                                                                                        there is waaay too much ammonia coming into the
                                                                                                                                                                        system. my guess would be over feeding. by doing
                                                                                                                                                                        such large water changes and using ammonia removers
                                                                                                                                                                        you are not going to successfully cycle that tank!
                                                                                                                                                                        --- Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                                        > A couple of weeks ago I set up a new 55 gal tank
                                                                                                                                                                        > with an undergravel filter plus a side filter (the
                                                                                                                                                                        > waterfall kind). I added some water from my
                                                                                                                                                                        > established goldfish aquarium and a bit of the
                                                                                                                                                                        > gravel as well. I added some live plants, 4 rosy red
                                                                                                                                                                        > minnows to get it cycling and some small snails.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > However, since it's going to be a goldfish tank, I
                                                                                                                                                                        > decided about a week ago to add 2 medium comets and
                                                                                                                                                                        > one tiny goldfish (the size of a minnow) because I
                                                                                                                                                                        > thought that might speed up the cycle since the
                                                                                                                                                                        > comets produce more waste than the rosy red minnows.
                                                                                                                                                                        > I realized now that I might have added too many fish
                                                                                                                                                                        > too soon. I have one large black moor and a medium
                                                                                                                                                                        > bluescale oranda that I intend to add after it's
                                                                                                                                                                        > cycled.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > I've been checking the water chemistry and the
                                                                                                                                                                        > ammonia levels are down, but nitrites are up to 3ppm
                                                                                                                                                                        > (stress zone). I did a 20% water change and then a
                                                                                                                                                                        > 10% water change with a gravel vacuum and added
                                                                                                                                                                        > stress zyme. I'm wondering what I else I can do to
                                                                                                                                                                        > get along with the cycle and drive down the
                                                                                                                                                                        > nitrites. Nitrates are only at 30 ppm so far. pH is
                                                                                                                                                                        > 6.4, alkalinity is 0 and the water is hard. I've
                                                                                                                                                                        > been adding salt at a rate of 0.5 tsp/gal because I
                                                                                                                                                                        > read that it helps detoxify nitrites. I had a bag of
                                                                                                                                                                        > zeolite in the tank for a while but removed it
                                                                                                                                                                        > because I was adding salt. I have 2 zeolite and 2
                                                                                                                                                                        > carbon cartridges in the under gravel filter and a
                                                                                                                                                                        > regular carbon cartridge in the side filter.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Thanks a lot for your help,
                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11202 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                        in many cases, the old 51/4's will have lost or
                                                                                                                                                                        corrupted data due to loss of static
                                                                                                                                                                        --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > Rob,
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Yes. In fact, I have a copy of WordStar on a
                                                                                                                                                                        > bootable DOS partition. Haven't
                                                                                                                                                                        > used it in ages, though. The reason I keep that
                                                                                                                                                                        > bootable DOS partition is
                                                                                                                                                                        > that one of these days I am going to go through all
                                                                                                                                                                        > of the old disks and
                                                                                                                                                                        > transfer the files to a more modern format.
                                                                                                                                                                        > Unfortunately, that has not yet
                                                                                                                                                                        > happened. I even have a spare 5 1/4 floppy drive
                                                                                                                                                                        > hanging around for the job.
                                                                                                                                                                        > Just hope it still works when I get around to it.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                        > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 8:38 AM
                                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > wow wordstar thats showing your age LOL
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > haven't seen that for ever..
                                                                                                                                                                        > still got software? don't think I have seen
                                                                                                                                                                        > something to open wordstar
                                                                                                                                                                        > since my commodore64 days LMAO
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > rob
                                                                                                                                                                        > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > In a message dated 5/8/2005 7:27:34 AM US Eastern
                                                                                                                                                                        > Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                                        > steve@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > BTW, I still have the original text of the wild
                                                                                                                                                                        > betta species
                                                                                                                                                                        > manuscript on
                                                                                                                                                                        > disk around here somewhere--in WordStar format.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11203 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                        lmao...guess you have not had many, or seen them with
                                                                                                                                                                        other fish then huh? they will dessimate an aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                        in a matter of a month. i have seen them rip the fins
                                                                                                                                                                        apart of oscars 2-3 times their size.
                                                                                                                                                                        --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                        > Agreed, Pacu's will take a bite out of anything (of
                                                                                                                                                                        > a vegetative
                                                                                                                                                                        > nature), such as a piece of fruit that has fallen
                                                                                                                                                                        > into the water.
                                                                                                                                                                        > Same as a goldfish would, or as a number of members
                                                                                                                                                                        > on this forum are
                                                                                                                                                                        > starting to feed their fish zucinni and/or cucumber.
                                                                                                                                                                        > This is not to
                                                                                                                                                                        > say that Cory catfish will take a bite out of
                                                                                                                                                                        > another fish. Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                        > are not inclined to tear a larger fish up, nor are
                                                                                                                                                                        > they equipped to
                                                                                                                                                                        > do so. Larger fish are not in their diet. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > \
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                        > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > except that a pacu will take bites out of anything
                                                                                                                                                                        > in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > its midst, unlike an oscar who will only generally
                                                                                                                                                                        > eat
                                                                                                                                                                        > > what fits in its mouth.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Nan, In the scientific community, Pacu's are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > categorized as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Herbivores; their diet consisting mainly of
                                                                                                                                                                        > plant
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > material. While
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > they are in the same family as Piranhas, that
                                                                                                                                                                        > family
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > also includes
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Silver Dollars (Piranha-like herbivores) as well
                                                                                                                                                                        > as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > the Neon,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Cardinal and all other community tank Tetras.
                                                                                                                                                                        > They
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > are also related
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > to freshwater Trout and Salmon, and yes, the
                                                                                                                                                                        > feared
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > African Tiger
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Fish (Hydrocynus) of which there are about six
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > species in the genus,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > one getting to 12 feet and known to pull African
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > fisherman into the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > river -- by the legs, not by the line! Like
                                                                                                                                                                        > most
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > other fish, Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > are opportunists and if a fish will fit in its
                                                                                                                                                                        > mouth
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > it will eat it.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > In that respect you could say its an Omnivore,
                                                                                                                                                                        > but
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > again, most any
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Herbivore will take in a fish if its small
                                                                                                                                                                        > enough to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > fit in its
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > mouth. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Pacu's Herbivores????? That is a new one to
                                                                                                                                                                        > me,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > since they are in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > the same family, I believe and I could be wrong,
                                                                                                                                                                        > as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > priannah
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > (spelling sucks tonight, sorry!). In fact, they
                                                                                                                                                                        > are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > very much a
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > carnivore. Many breeders I know keep them or
                                                                                                                                                                        > Oscars
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > for when they
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > cull their fry, and use the fry as food for
                                                                                                                                                                        > them.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > This was back before I knew better. :) When I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > bought the pacu, it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > the same size as the tiger barbs I had. When
                                                                                                                                                                        > it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > other fish, I didn't think it would eat them -
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > pacus are supposed
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > to be
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > herbivores, after all.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > tank he
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > because he had gotten big enough that he
                                                                                                                                                                        > was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > the tank (as well as the other fish - I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > actually
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > Here's a photo that might help.he seems
                                                                                                                                                                        > to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > be
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Hilton.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > whole thing was given away.i thought
                                                                                                                                                                        > they
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > would
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > have enough room. Plants are good hiding
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > places
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > rock
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > with the hole in it.but back to what can
                                                                                                                                                                        > I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > do for
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > him Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Please delete this line and everything below
                                                                                                                                                                        > it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > .
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                                                                                                                                                                        > > > in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11204 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily,

                                                                                                                                                                        You pretty much have to ride the cycle out. Amquel is a product you might
                                                                                                                                                                        want to try as it converts nitrogen products to a non-toxic form, and using
                                                                                                                                                                        the proper test kit )I believe it is the Nesslar reagents you need, but I'd
                                                                                                                                                                        have to look it up to be sure) will still allow you to get an accurate
                                                                                                                                                                        measurement of the ammonia. You are two weeks into the cycle, so you have at
                                                                                                                                                                        least a couple of more weeks to go to completion. If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                        type of filtration in your other tank--the UGF--you can take some of the
                                                                                                                                                                        substrate from that tank and place it in the new tank to add to your
                                                                                                                                                                        bacterial colonies.

                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 5:14 PM
                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife; UniQuaria
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank


                                                                                                                                                                        Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                                        A couple of weeks ago I set up a new 55 gal tank with an undergravel filter
                                                                                                                                                                        plus a side filter (the waterfall kind). I added some water from my
                                                                                                                                                                        established goldfish aquarium and a bit of the gravel as well. I added some
                                                                                                                                                                        live plants, 4 rosy red minnows to get it cycling and some small snails.

                                                                                                                                                                        However, since it's going to be a goldfish tank, I decided about a week ago
                                                                                                                                                                        to add 2 medium comets and one tiny goldfish (the size of a minnow) because
                                                                                                                                                                        I thought that might speed up the cycle since the comets produce more waste
                                                                                                                                                                        than the rosy red minnows. I realized now that I might have added too many
                                                                                                                                                                        fish too soon. I have one large black moor and a medium bluescale oranda
                                                                                                                                                                        that I intend to add after it's cycled.

                                                                                                                                                                        I've been checking the water chemistry and the ammonia levels are down, but
                                                                                                                                                                        nitrites are up to 3ppm (stress zone). I did a 20% water change and then a
                                                                                                                                                                        10% water change with a gravel vacuum and added stress zyme. I'm wondering
                                                                                                                                                                        what I else I can do to get along with the cycle and drive down the
                                                                                                                                                                        nitrites. Nitrates are only at 30 ppm so far. pH is 6.4, alkalinity is 0 and
                                                                                                                                                                        the water is hard. I've been adding salt at a rate of 0.5 tsp/gal because I
                                                                                                                                                                        read that it helps detoxify nitrites. I had a bag of zeolite in the tank for
                                                                                                                                                                        a while but removed it because I was adding salt. I have 2 zeolite and 2
                                                                                                                                                                        carbon cartridges in the under gravel filter and a regular carbon cartridge
                                                                                                                                                                        in the side filter.

                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks a lot for your help,
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11205 From: Andreas Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Scorpions?
                                                                                                                                                                        Do you have to keep the scorpions with symbiotic mites? Do the mites
                                                                                                                                                                        ever get out and infest the house?

                                                                                                                                                                        Andreas

                                                                                                                                                                        On 5/8/05, Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > yeah I have quite a collection :)
                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > You have scorpions? On purpose? Lol
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > ooooh honey not me! They'd get smooshed! =) I'm getting the heeby jeebies.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Have kids stuff? Want $$$ for it? Check out Zainy Zebra Consignment!
                                                                                                                                                                        > Based in Cabot, AR www.ZainyZebra.com
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot Garage Sale!
                                                                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Live in Little Rock? Little Rock Garage
                                                                                                                                                                        > Sale!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 4:42 PM
                                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > I use play sand for my scorpions. Not as sensative as a fish, I suppose, but
                                                                                                                                                                        > I've never had a problem. I think it's safe most likely.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Charlene <muffin4494@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Hi Can anyone tell me " What kind of play sand I can use." In my 55
                                                                                                                                                                        > ga tank.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > I have " Kiddlies fun play sand" It is orange and gress lable
                                                                                                                                                                        > on it. It all so say on it " Ideal for building and mounding"
                                                                                                                                                                        > Can I usa this sand.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > And how much sand should I ues for my 55 ga tank.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Thank you for helping me Charlene
                                                                                                                                                                        > muffin4494@...
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11206 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                        I went to a different LFS on the weekend which had a lot of nice looking plants.The LFS's Elodia was very very dark green.
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        ...My Elodia is a light light green/almost yellow color, and i thought that was normal.    So I asked the guy what he does to get it DARK GREEN and he said just added neutrients...
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        So i now think that my tank isn't lacking CO2 because every thing is really fast growing, its lacking the neutrients I the water and I have since brought some Seachem Flourish plant neutrents (250ml) put that in my tank yesterday and this morning... maybe the plants are a little darker today not sure as yet early days.
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11207 From: Charlene Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                                        Hi Ok I just got my heater. I got 2 75 w for my 55 ga tank. Now I need
                                                                                                                                                                        to know where should I put them. And should I got a THERMOMETER And
                                                                                                                                                                        what kind should I got. Thank you for helping me Charlene
                                                                                                                                                                        muffin4494@...
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11208 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                        Hey Paul, Figured you might reply to my most recent Pacu post,
                                                                                                                                                                        especially after Mike's post saying his Pacu bit his Oscar's dorsal
                                                                                                                                                                        fin; and apparently you've seen the same thing happen. I noted
                                                                                                                                                                        Mike's post, but still say that a Pacu will not take a chunk out of
                                                                                                                                                                        any large fish too large to fit in its mouth, but will only take a
                                                                                                                                                                        fish if it can swallow it whole. I never said it wouldn't rip fins.
                                                                                                                                                                        Many Characoides (and Cyprinids as well) are known fin nippers --
                                                                                                                                                                        Pacus just do it on a large scale -- they're large fish. But, they
                                                                                                                                                                        won't take a chunk of flesh out of another fish like a Piranha will.
                                                                                                                                                                        It seems our new member Dawana's Black Skirt Tetra's fins may have
                                                                                                                                                                        been bitten up by her Serpae Tetras. I'm note arguing the fact that
                                                                                                                                                                        a Pacu can dessimate an aquarium in short time; am just pointing out
                                                                                                                                                                        they are not flesh eaters (as in biting out chunks of flesh from a
                                                                                                                                                                        larger fish), and that such food is not part of their diet, with the
                                                                                                                                                                        exception of anything mouth size. Just about any fish I can think of
                                                                                                                                                                        will swallow a fish small enough to fit in its mouth, there are very
                                                                                                                                                                        few that won't. Most any fish are opportunists in this respect.
                                                                                                                                                                        This is not to say that they are all omnivores and as such there are
                                                                                                                                                                        no herbivores then. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > lmao...guess you have not had many, or seen them with
                                                                                                                                                                        > other fish then huh? they will dessimate an aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                        > in a matter of a month. i have seen them rip the fins
                                                                                                                                                                        > apart of oscars 2-3 times their size.
                                                                                                                                                                        > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Agreed, Pacu's will take a bite out of anything (of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > a vegetative
                                                                                                                                                                        > > nature), such as a piece of fruit that has fallen
                                                                                                                                                                        > > into the water.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Same as a goldfish would, or as a number of members
                                                                                                                                                                        > > on this forum are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > starting to feed their fish zucinni and/or cucumber.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > This is not to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > say that Cory catfish will take a bite out of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > another fish. Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                        > > are not inclined to tear a larger fish up, nor are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > they equipped to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > do so. Larger fish are not in their diet. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > \
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                        > > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > except that a pacu will take bites out of anything
                                                                                                                                                                        > > in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > its midst, unlike an oscar who will only generally
                                                                                                                                                                        > > eat
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > what fits in its mouth.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Nan, In the scientific community, Pacu's are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > categorized as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Herbivores; their diet consisting mainly of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > plant
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > material. While
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > they are in the same family as Piranhas, that
                                                                                                                                                                        > > family
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > also includes
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Silver Dollars (Piranha-like herbivores) as well
                                                                                                                                                                        > > as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > the Neon,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Cardinal and all other community tank Tetras.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > They
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > are also related
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > to freshwater Trout and Salmon, and yes, the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > feared
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > African Tiger
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Fish (Hydrocynus) of which there are about six
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > species in the genus,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > one getting to 12 feet and known to pull African
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > fisherman into the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > river -- by the legs, not by the line! Like
                                                                                                                                                                        > > most
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > other fish, Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > are opportunists and if a fish will fit in its
                                                                                                                                                                        > > mouth
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > it will eat it.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > In that respect you could say its an Omnivore,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > but
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > again, most any
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Herbivore will take in a fish if its small
                                                                                                                                                                        > > enough to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > fit in its
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > mouth. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Pacu's Herbivores????? That is a new one to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > me,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > since they are in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > the same family, I believe and I could be wrong,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > priannah
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > (spelling sucks tonight, sorry!). In fact, they
                                                                                                                                                                        > > are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > very much a
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > carnivore. Many breeders I know keep them or
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Oscars
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > for when they
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > cull their fry, and use the fry as food for
                                                                                                                                                                        > > them.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > This was back before I knew better. :) When I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > bought the pacu, it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > the same size as the tiger barbs I had. When
                                                                                                                                                                        > > it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > other fish, I didn't think it would eat them -
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > pacus are supposed
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > to be
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > herbivores, after all.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > tank he
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > because he had gotten big enough that he
                                                                                                                                                                        > > was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > the tank (as well as the other fish - I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > actually
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > Here's a photo that might help.he seems
                                                                                                                                                                        > > to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > be
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Hilton.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > whole thing was given away.i thought
                                                                                                                                                                        > > they
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > would
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > have enough room. Plants are good hiding
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > places
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > rock
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > with the hole in it.but back to what can
                                                                                                                                                                        > > I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > do for
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > him Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Please delete this line and everything below
                                                                                                                                                                        > > it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all
                                                                                                                                                                        > > text
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > that is not
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > important to the reply and if changing the topic
                                                                                                                                                                        > > of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > the original
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new
                                                                                                                                                                        > > subject
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your
                                                                                                                                                                        > > help
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an
                                                                                                                                                                        > > email
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > to:
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                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                        > > Take
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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11209 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                                        Yes, a thermometer is recommended to keep tabs on the temperature, even
                                                                                                                                                                        though many submersible heaters are adjustable to the "exact"
                                                                                                                                                                        temperature setting you want to maintain. Its a must if you have hang
                                                                                                                                                                        on heaters with no setting readings, just the control knob. Type to
                                                                                                                                                                        get is more or less a personal matter, just make sure its accurate.
                                                                                                                                                                        Some people like the hang-ons and others like the ones with the suction
                                                                                                                                                                        cups. Best to put the heaters at opposite ends of the aquarium. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Charlene" <muffin4494@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > Hi Ok I just got my heater. I got 2 75 w for my 55 ga tank. Now I
                                                                                                                                                                        need
                                                                                                                                                                        > to know where should I put them. And should I got a THERMOMETER And
                                                                                                                                                                        > what kind should I got. Thank you for helping me Charlene
                                                                                                                                                                        > muffin4494@y...
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11210 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                                        When running two heaters, I usually place them at opposite ends of the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                        I also place them in different outlets that are separately fused, so if I
                                                                                                                                                                        lose power to one when a breaker trips, the other one is still good to go.
                                                                                                                                                                        This last can be difficult to do.

                                                                                                                                                                        Of course you need a thermometer. How else will you know what your water
                                                                                                                                                                        temperature is? <g> I prefer the in the tank type, but the LCD type that you
                                                                                                                                                                        stick on the outside of the tank are also pretty accurate.


                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of Charlene
                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 8:08 PM
                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] I need to have something Please help

                                                                                                                                                                        Hi Ok I just got my heater. I got 2 75 w for my 55 ga tank. Now I need
                                                                                                                                                                        to know where should I put them. And should I got a THERMOMETER And
                                                                                                                                                                        what kind should I got. Thank you for helping me Charlene
                                                                                                                                                                        muffin4494@...
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11211 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/8/2005 6:35:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sevenspringss@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                        Mike's post saying his Pacu bit his Oscar's dorsal
                                                                                                                                                                        fin; and apparently you've seen the same thing happen.  I noted
                                                                                                                                                                        Mike's post, but still say that a Pacu will not take a chunk out of
                                                                                                                                                                        any large fish too large to fit in its mouth
                                                                                                                                                                        Hi Ray,
                                                                                                                                                                        I don't think my pacu was out to consume my oscar, the oscar may have been harrassing the pacu and the pacu may have just nipped him right back.  I think you are right on track about eating what may fit in their mouthes.  More opportunistic than anything.
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        Mike
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11212 From: secretlaw Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Wanted Discus babies
                                                                                                                                                                        Does anyone have any discus babies that I can buy?
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11213 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Wanted Discus babies
                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/8/2005 9:02:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, secretlaw@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                        Does anyone have any discus babies that I can buy?
                                                                                                                                                                        Where are you located?    
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11214 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                        i have also seen them rip the eyes out of large
                                                                                                                                                                        dempseys, 10 inchers, and eat them. seen them take
                                                                                                                                                                        bites out of the tail sections of red devils and green
                                                                                                                                                                        terrors as well. not just defensively, but killed and
                                                                                                                                                                        began to eat them. i have worked in an lfs for over 3
                                                                                                                                                                        years, and we just don't have space to house large
                                                                                                                                                                        fish at the rate people want to get rid of them, so
                                                                                                                                                                        often times they end up in a "ghetto" tank where it is
                                                                                                                                                                        survivial of the fittests. the most recent incident
                                                                                                                                                                        was a pair of large dempseys housed with a pair of
                                                                                                                                                                        oscars and a pair of pacus (pair meaning 2 no m/f).
                                                                                                                                                                        within 30 days, the dempseys had no tails left and the
                                                                                                                                                                        oscars were missing chunks out of their heads and
                                                                                                                                                                        behind teh gill plates. the oscars and dempseys
                                                                                                                                                                        showed no aggression towards eachother. these are not
                                                                                                                                                                        just mean streaks, the pacus are actually removing
                                                                                                                                                                        chunks out of fish up to 2x their size
                                                                                                                                                                        --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                        > Hey Paul, Figured you might reply to my most recent
                                                                                                                                                                        > Pacu post,
                                                                                                                                                                        > especially after Mike's post saying his Pacu bit his
                                                                                                                                                                        > Oscar's dorsal
                                                                                                                                                                        > fin; and apparently you've seen the same thing
                                                                                                                                                                        > happen. I noted
                                                                                                                                                                        > Mike's post, but still say that a Pacu will not take
                                                                                                                                                                        > a chunk out of
                                                                                                                                                                        > any large fish too large to fit in its mouth, but
                                                                                                                                                                        > will only take a
                                                                                                                                                                        > fish if it can swallow it whole. I never said it
                                                                                                                                                                        > wouldn't rip fins.
                                                                                                                                                                        > Many Characoides (and Cyprinids as well) are known
                                                                                                                                                                        > fin nippers --
                                                                                                                                                                        > Pacus just do it on a large scale -- they're large
                                                                                                                                                                        > fish. But, they
                                                                                                                                                                        > won't take a chunk of flesh out of another fish like
                                                                                                                                                                        > a Piranha will.
                                                                                                                                                                        > It seems our new member Dawana's Black Skirt Tetra's
                                                                                                                                                                        > fins may have
                                                                                                                                                                        > been bitten up by her Serpae Tetras. I'm note
                                                                                                                                                                        > arguing the fact that
                                                                                                                                                                        > a Pacu can dessimate an aquarium in short time; am
                                                                                                                                                                        > just pointing out
                                                                                                                                                                        > they are not flesh eaters (as in biting out chunks
                                                                                                                                                                        > of flesh from a
                                                                                                                                                                        > larger fish), and that such food is not part of
                                                                                                                                                                        > their diet, with the
                                                                                                                                                                        > exception of anything mouth size. Just about any
                                                                                                                                                                        > fish I can think of
                                                                                                                                                                        > will swallow a fish small enough to fit in its
                                                                                                                                                                        > mouth, there are very
                                                                                                                                                                        > few that won't. Most any fish are opportunists in
                                                                                                                                                                        > this respect.
                                                                                                                                                                        > This is not to say that they are all omnivores and
                                                                                                                                                                        > as such there are
                                                                                                                                                                        > no herbivores then. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        > \
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                        > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > lmao...guess you have not had many, or seen them
                                                                                                                                                                        > with
                                                                                                                                                                        > > other fish then huh? they will dessimate an
                                                                                                                                                                        > aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                        > > in a matter of a month. i have seen them rip the
                                                                                                                                                                        > fins
                                                                                                                                                                        > > apart of oscars 2-3 times their size.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Agreed, Pacu's will take a bite out of anything
                                                                                                                                                                        > (of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > a vegetative
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > nature), such as a piece of fruit that has
                                                                                                                                                                        > fallen
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > into the water.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Same as a goldfish would, or as a number of
                                                                                                                                                                        > members
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > on this forum are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > starting to feed their fish zucinni and/or
                                                                                                                                                                        > cucumber.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > This is not to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > say that Cory catfish will take a bite out of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > another fish. Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > are not inclined to tear a larger fish up, nor
                                                                                                                                                                        > are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > they equipped to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > do so. Larger fish are not in their diet. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > except that a pacu will take bites out of
                                                                                                                                                                        > anything
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > its midst, unlike an oscar who will only
                                                                                                                                                                        > generally
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > eat
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > what fits in its mouth.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Nan, In the scientific community, Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                        > are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > categorized as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Herbivores; their diet consisting mainly of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > plant
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > material. While
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > they are in the same family as Piranhas,
                                                                                                                                                                        > that
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > family
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > also includes
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Silver Dollars (Piranha-like herbivores) as
                                                                                                                                                                        > well
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > the Neon,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Cardinal and all other community tank
                                                                                                                                                                        > Tetras.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > They
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > are also related
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > to freshwater Trout and Salmon, and yes, the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > feared
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > African Tiger
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Fish (Hydrocynus) of which there are about
                                                                                                                                                                        > six
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > species in the genus,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > one getting to 12 feet and known to pull
                                                                                                                                                                        > African
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > fisherman into the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > river -- by the legs, not by the line! Like
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > most
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > other fish, Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > are opportunists and if a fish will fit in
                                                                                                                                                                        > its
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > mouth
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > it will eat it.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > In that respect you could say its an
                                                                                                                                                                        > Omnivore,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > but
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > again, most any
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Herbivore will take in a fish if its small
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > enough to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > fit in its
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > mouth. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > Pacu's Herbivores????? That is a new one
                                                                                                                                                                        > to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > me,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > since they are in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > the same family, I believe and I could be
                                                                                                                                                                        > wrong,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > priannah
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > (spelling sucks tonight, sorry!). In fact,
                                                                                                                                                                        > they
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > very much a
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > carnivore. Many breeders I know keep them
                                                                                                                                                                        > or
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Oscars
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > for when they
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > cull their fry, and use the fry as food for
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > them.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > This was back before I knew better. :)
                                                                                                                                                                        > When I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > bought the pacu, it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > the same size as the tiger barbs I had.
                                                                                                                                                                        > When
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > other fish, I didn't think it would eat
                                                                                                                                                                        > them -
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > pacus are supposed
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > to be
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > herbivores, after all.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150
                                                                                                                                                                        > gal.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > tank he
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > because he had gotten big enough that
                                                                                                                                                                        > he
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > the tank (as well as the other fish -
                                                                                                                                                                        > I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > actually
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > > Here's a photo that might help.he
                                                                                                                                                                        > seems
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > be
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        === message truncated ===




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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11215 From: paul helms Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                        what is your lightiung situation btw? elodia is a low
                                                                                                                                                                        light plant but does best under 2 watts per gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                        if it is turning yellow it is losing chloroplasts
                                                                                                                                                                        --- Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > I went to a different LFS on the weekend which had a
                                                                                                                                                                        > lot of nice looking plants.The LFS's Elodia was very
                                                                                                                                                                        > very dark green.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > ...My Elodia is a light light green/almost yellow
                                                                                                                                                                        > color, and i thought that was normal. So I asked
                                                                                                                                                                        > the guy what he does to get it DARK GREEN and he
                                                                                                                                                                        > said just added neutrients...
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > So i now think that my tank isn't lacking CO2
                                                                                                                                                                        > because every thing is really fast growing, its
                                                                                                                                                                        > lacking the neutrients I the water and I have since
                                                                                                                                                                        > brought some Seachem Flourish plant neutrents
                                                                                                                                                                        > (250ml) put that in my tank yesterday and this
                                                                                                                                                                        > morning... maybe the plants are a little darker
                                                                                                                                                                        > today not sure as yet early days.
                                                                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11216 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        So what do you suggest then....should I just pull the zeolite completely for now and use carbon??
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                        paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        you are stopping teh tank from cycling and are going
                                                                                                                                                                        to cause yourself problems. the zeolite pulls out
                                                                                                                                                                        ammonia which is the food source for teh bacteria that
                                                                                                                                                                        are trying to grow and establish themselves. if you
                                                                                                                                                                        are actually running zeolite and have nitrites at 3,
                                                                                                                                                                        there is waaay too much ammonia coming into the
                                                                                                                                                                        system. my guess would be over feeding. by doing
                                                                                                                                                                        such large water changes and using ammonia removers
                                                                                                                                                                        you are not going to successfully cycle that tank!
                                                                                                                                                                        --- Emily Tenczar wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                                        > A couple of weeks ago I set up a new 55 gal tank
                                                                                                                                                                        > with an undergravel filter plus a side filter (the
                                                                                                                                                                        > waterfall kind). I added some water from my
                                                                                                                                                                        > established goldfish aquarium and a bit of the
                                                                                                                                                                        > gravel as well. I added some live plants, 4 rosy red
                                                                                                                                                                        > minnows to get it cycling and some small snails.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > However, since it's going to be a goldfish tank, I
                                                                                                                                                                        > decided about a week ago to add 2 medium comets and
                                                                                                                                                                        > one tiny goldfish (the size of a minnow) because I
                                                                                                                                                                        > thought that might speed up the cycle since the
                                                                                                                                                                        > comets produce more waste than the rosy red minnows.
                                                                                                                                                                        > I realized now that I might have added too many fish
                                                                                                                                                                        > too soon. I have one large black moor and a medium
                                                                                                                                                                        > bluescale oranda that I intend to add after it's
                                                                                                                                                                        > cycled.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > I've been checking the water chemistry and the
                                                                                                                                                                        > ammonia levels are down, but nitrites are up to 3ppm
                                                                                                                                                                        > (stress zone). I did a 20% water change and then a
                                                                                                                                                                        > 10% water change with a gravel vacuum and added
                                                                                                                                                                        > stress zyme. I'm wondering what I else I can do to
                                                                                                                                                                        > get along with the cycle and drive down the
                                                                                                                                                                        > nitrites. Nitrates are only at 30 ppm so far. pH is
                                                                                                                                                                        > 6.4, alkalinity is 0 and the water is hard. I've
                                                                                                                                                                        > been adding salt at a rate of 0.5 tsp/gal because I
                                                                                                                                                                        > read that it helps detoxify nitrites. I had a bag of
                                                                                                                                                                        > zeolite in the tank for a while but removed it
                                                                                                                                                                        > because I was adding salt. I have 2 zeolite and 2
                                                                                                                                                                        > carbon cartridges in the under gravel filter and a
                                                                                                                                                                        > regular carbon cartridge in the side filter.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Thanks a lot for your help,
                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11217 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Scorpions?
                                                                                                                                                                        No, but my millipedes and roaches have mites. They never get out.
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                        Andreas <andreas1120@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        Do you have to keep the scorpions with symbiotic mites? Do the mites
                                                                                                                                                                        ever get out and infest the house?

                                                                                                                                                                        Andreas

                                                                                                                                                                        On 5/8/05, Emily Tenczar wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > yeah I have quite a collection :)
                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > You have scorpions? On purpose? Lol
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > ooooh honey not me! They'd get smooshed! =) I'm getting the heeby jeebies.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Have kids stuff? Want $$$ for it? Check out Zainy Zebra Consignment!
                                                                                                                                                                        > Based in Cabot, AR www.ZainyZebra.com
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot Garage Sale!
                                                                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Live in Little Rock? Little Rock Garage
                                                                                                                                                                        > Sale!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 4:42 PM
                                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > I use play sand for my scorpions. Not as sensative as a fish, I suppose, but
                                                                                                                                                                        > I've never had a problem. I think it's safe most likely.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Charlene wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Hi Can anyone tell me " What kind of play sand I can use." In my 55
                                                                                                                                                                        > ga tank.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > I have " Kiddlies fun play sand" It is orange and gress lable
                                                                                                                                                                        > on it. It all so say on it " Ideal for building and mounding"
                                                                                                                                                                        > Can I usa this sand.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > And how much sand should I ues for my 55 ga tank.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Thank you for helping me Charlene
                                                                                                                                                                        > muffin4494@...
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11218 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/8/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        I'd suggest to stop feeding your fish. actually fed them small amount every other day. Don't do anymore waterchanges and pull both the Zeolite and the carbon from your filters. AS long as you have something in your filter for the bacteria to grow on.
                                                                                                                                                                        Without re reading this whole thread to see what kind of filter you have:
                                                                                                                                                                        Some filters have just plain sponges, or filter pads available without carbon or anything else inside .

                                                                                                                                                                        Your probally 2-3 weeks from a complete cycle just give it time.... no more adding fish... your bioload is already high if anything remove a few fish.

                                                                                                                                                                        one tired puppy
                                                                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                                                                        Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                        USA




                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/9/2005 12:42:41 AM US Eastern Standard Time, bababanana@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                        So what do you suggest then....should I just pull the zeolite completely for now and use carbon??
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily


                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11219 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        yes, remove the zeolite. to have that much ammonia
                                                                                                                                                                        converting with the zeolite present, you must be over
                                                                                                                                                                        feeding big time. feed only every 2-3 days, and only
                                                                                                                                                                        about 1 flake per fish. i realize they will eat as
                                                                                                                                                                        much as you can feed, but they crap out what they do
                                                                                                                                                                        not need and give more toxins. basically focus on not
                                                                                                                                                                        polluting the tank and let it do its thing!
                                                                                                                                                                        --- Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > So what do you suggest then....should I just pull
                                                                                                                                                                        > the zeolite completely for now and use carbon??
                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > you are stopping teh tank from cycling and are going
                                                                                                                                                                        > to cause yourself problems. the zeolite pulls out
                                                                                                                                                                        > ammonia which is the food source for teh bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                        > that
                                                                                                                                                                        > are trying to grow and establish themselves. if you
                                                                                                                                                                        > are actually running zeolite and have nitrites at 3,
                                                                                                                                                                        > there is waaay too much ammonia coming into the
                                                                                                                                                                        > system. my guess would be over feeding. by doing
                                                                                                                                                                        > such large water changes and using ammonia removers
                                                                                                                                                                        > you are not going to successfully cycle that tank!
                                                                                                                                                                        > --- Emily Tenczar wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > A couple of weeks ago I set up a new 55 gal tank
                                                                                                                                                                        > > with an undergravel filter plus a side filter (the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > waterfall kind). I added some water from my
                                                                                                                                                                        > > established goldfish aquarium and a bit of the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > gravel as well. I added some live plants, 4 rosy
                                                                                                                                                                        > red
                                                                                                                                                                        > > minnows to get it cycling and some small snails.
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > However, since it's going to be a goldfish tank, I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > decided about a week ago to add 2 medium comets
                                                                                                                                                                        > and
                                                                                                                                                                        > > one tiny goldfish (the size of a minnow) because I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > thought that might speed up the cycle since the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > comets produce more waste than the rosy red
                                                                                                                                                                        > minnows.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > I realized now that I might have added too many
                                                                                                                                                                        > fish
                                                                                                                                                                        > > too soon. I have one large black moor and a medium
                                                                                                                                                                        > > bluescale oranda that I intend to add after it's
                                                                                                                                                                        > > cycled.
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > I've been checking the water chemistry and the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > ammonia levels are down, but nitrites are up to
                                                                                                                                                                        > 3ppm
                                                                                                                                                                        > > (stress zone). I did a 20% water change and then a
                                                                                                                                                                        > > 10% water change with a gravel vacuum and added
                                                                                                                                                                        > > stress zyme. I'm wondering what I else I can do to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > get along with the cycle and drive down the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > nitrites. Nitrates are only at 30 ppm so far. pH
                                                                                                                                                                        > is
                                                                                                                                                                        > > 6.4, alkalinity is 0 and the water is hard. I've
                                                                                                                                                                        > > been adding salt at a rate of 0.5 tsp/gal because
                                                                                                                                                                        > I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > read that it helps detoxify nitrites. I had a bag
                                                                                                                                                                        > of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > zeolite in the tank for a while but removed it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > because I was adding salt. I have 2 zeolite and 2
                                                                                                                                                                        > > carbon cartridges in the under gravel filter and a
                                                                                                                                                                        > > regular carbon cartridge in the side filter.
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Thanks a lot for your help,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                        > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                                        > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11220 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Plants and Light
                                                                                                                                                                        I have plants that start out really dark green and lose color over time.  I have a 15  watt flourescent bulb in a 20 gallon tank.  Is this enough light?  Should I add anything for the plants?
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        Angela
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11221 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                        It was not my suggestion that Pacus behave aggressively as a
                                                                                                                                                                        defensive strategy, but Mike. However, it does not surprise me that
                                                                                                                                                                        they can be just outwardly aggressive without provocation, since many
                                                                                                                                                                        smaller related fish act in tbis same manner. It also does not
                                                                                                                                                                        surprise me that the Dempseys had no tails left; I'm surprised that
                                                                                                                                                                        the Oscars still had theirs. Fins toward the rear are hard to defend
                                                                                                                                                                        when the attacks are unexpected. If you've actually witnessed (?)
                                                                                                                                                                        the Pacus taking chunks out of the Oscars, this goes to show you that
                                                                                                                                                                        most any fish can behave in a manner not normally attributed to the
                                                                                                                                                                        species (Pacus are not carnivores). A good number of years ago, I
                                                                                                                                                                        observed a Betta I had in my community tank swim up along side of two
                                                                                                                                                                        of my juvenile Angelfish and before I realized what he was doing, he
                                                                                                                                                                        plucked an eye out of each of them. Needless to say, I yanked him
                                                                                                                                                                        right out, but it was too late for the Angels. I've never seen nor
                                                                                                                                                                        heard of that behavior in Bettas before or since. Bettas are known
                                                                                                                                                                        to feed on mosquito larva in the wild and are fed similar foods
                                                                                                                                                                        (frozen bloodworms, adult brine shrimp, etc.) in the aquarium. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > i have also seen them rip the eyes out of large
                                                                                                                                                                        > dempseys, 10 inchers, and eat them. seen them take
                                                                                                                                                                        > bites out of the tail sections of red devils and green
                                                                                                                                                                        > terrors as well. not just defensively, but killed and
                                                                                                                                                                        > began to eat them. i have worked in an lfs for over 3
                                                                                                                                                                        > years, and we just don't have space to house large
                                                                                                                                                                        > fish at the rate people want to get rid of them, so
                                                                                                                                                                        > often times they end up in a "ghetto" tank where it is
                                                                                                                                                                        > survivial of the fittests. the most recent incident
                                                                                                                                                                        > was a pair of large dempseys housed with a pair of
                                                                                                                                                                        > oscars and a pair of pacus (pair meaning 2 no m/f).
                                                                                                                                                                        > within 30 days, the dempseys had no tails left and the
                                                                                                                                                                        > oscars were missing chunks out of their heads and
                                                                                                                                                                        > behind teh gill plates. the oscars and dempseys
                                                                                                                                                                        > showed no aggression towards eachother. these are not
                                                                                                                                                                        > just mean streaks, the pacus are actually removing
                                                                                                                                                                        > chunks out of fish up to 2x their size
                                                                                                                                                                        > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Hey Paul, Figured you might reply to my most recent
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Pacu post,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > especially after Mike's post saying his Pacu bit his
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Oscar's dorsal
                                                                                                                                                                        > > fin; and apparently you've seen the same thing
                                                                                                                                                                        > > happen. I noted
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Mike's post, but still say that a Pacu will not take
                                                                                                                                                                        > > a chunk out of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > any large fish too large to fit in its mouth, but
                                                                                                                                                                        > > will only take a
                                                                                                                                                                        > > fish if it can swallow it whole. I never said it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > wouldn't rip fins.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Many Characoides (and Cyprinids as well) are known
                                                                                                                                                                        > > fin nippers --
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Pacus just do it on a large scale -- they're large
                                                                                                                                                                        > > fish. But, they
                                                                                                                                                                        > > won't take a chunk of flesh out of another fish like
                                                                                                                                                                        > > a Piranha will.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > It seems our new member Dawana's Black Skirt Tetra's
                                                                                                                                                                        > > fins may have
                                                                                                                                                                        > > been bitten up by her Serpae Tetras. I'm note
                                                                                                                                                                        > > arguing the fact that
                                                                                                                                                                        > > a Pacu can dessimate an aquarium in short time; am
                                                                                                                                                                        > > just pointing out
                                                                                                                                                                        > > they are not flesh eaters (as in biting out chunks
                                                                                                                                                                        > > of flesh from a
                                                                                                                                                                        > > larger fish), and that such food is not part of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > their diet, with the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > exception of anything mouth size. Just about any
                                                                                                                                                                        > > fish I can think of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > will swallow a fish small enough to fit in its
                                                                                                                                                                        > > mouth, there are very
                                                                                                                                                                        > > few that won't. Most any fish are opportunists in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > this respect.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > This is not to say that they are all omnivores and
                                                                                                                                                                        > > as such there are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > no herbivores then. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        > > \
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                        > > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > lmao...guess you have not had many, or seen them
                                                                                                                                                                        > > with
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > other fish then huh? they will dessimate an
                                                                                                                                                                        > > aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > in a matter of a month. i have seen them rip the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > fins
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > apart of oscars 2-3 times their size.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Agreed, Pacu's will take a bite out of anything
                                                                                                                                                                        > > (of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > a vegetative
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > nature), such as a piece of fruit that has
                                                                                                                                                                        > > fallen
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > into the water.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Same as a goldfish would, or as a number of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > members
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > on this forum are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > starting to feed their fish zucinni and/or
                                                                                                                                                                        > > cucumber.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > This is not to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > say that Cory catfish will take a bite out of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > another fish. Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > are not inclined to tear a larger fish up, nor
                                                                                                                                                                        > > are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > they equipped to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > do so. Larger fish are not in their diet. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > except that a pacu will take bites out of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > anything
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > its midst, unlike an oscar who will only
                                                                                                                                                                        > > generally
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > eat
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > what fits in its mouth.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > Nan, In the scientific community, Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                        > > are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > categorized as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > Herbivores; their diet consisting mainly of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > plant
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > material. While
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > they are in the same family as Piranhas,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > that
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > family
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > also includes
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > Silver Dollars (Piranha-like herbivores) as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > well
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > the Neon,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > Cardinal and all other community tank
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Tetras.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > They
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > are also related
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > to freshwater Trout and Salmon, and yes, the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > feared
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > African Tiger
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > Fish (Hydrocynus) of which there are about
                                                                                                                                                                        > > six
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > species in the genus,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > one getting to 12 feet and known to pull
                                                                                                                                                                        > > African
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > fisherman into the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > river -- by the legs, not by the line! Like
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > most
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > other fish, Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > are opportunists and if a fish will fit in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > its
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > mouth
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > it will eat it.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > In that respect you could say its an
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Omnivore,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > but
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > again, most any
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > Herbivore will take in a fish if its small
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > enough to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > fit in its
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > mouth. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > Pacu's Herbivores????? That is a new one
                                                                                                                                                                        > > to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > me,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > since they are in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > the same family, I believe and I could be
                                                                                                                                                                        > > wrong,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > priannah
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > (spelling sucks tonight, sorry!). In fact,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > they
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > very much a
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > carnivore. Many breeders I know keep them
                                                                                                                                                                        > > or
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Oscars
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > for when they
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > cull their fry, and use the fry as food for
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > them.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > This was back before I knew better. :)
                                                                                                                                                                        > > When I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > bought the pacu, it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > the same size as the tiger barbs I had.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > When
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > other fish, I didn't think it would eat
                                                                                                                                                                        > > them -
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > pacus are supposed
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > to be
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > herbivores, after all.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150
                                                                                                                                                                        > > gal.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > tank he
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > > because he had gotten big enough that
                                                                                                                                                                        > > he
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > > the tank (as well as the other fish -
                                                                                                                                                                        > > I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > actually
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > > > Here's a photo that might help.he
                                                                                                                                                                        > > seems
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > be
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > === message truncated ===
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                                                                                                        > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
                                                                                                                                                                        > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11222 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                        Yo Mike! By your description, it looks like this was a defensive
                                                                                                                                                                        move on the part of your Pacu, which is more or less to be expected.
                                                                                                                                                                        Pacus are not know to be carnivores, however, note Paul's comments.
                                                                                                                                                                        If he has actually seen such flesh-biting attacks, rather than just
                                                                                                                                                                        seen the aftermath, it shows that some individuals just may be
                                                                                                                                                                        capable of it. Goes to show, as I've noted, that some fish act out
                                                                                                                                                                        of the ordinary. On a lesser scale, we've all seen different fish
                                                                                                                                                                        (of the same species) have certain food preferences aside from their
                                                                                                                                                                        brothers and sisters. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > In a message dated 5/8/2005 6:35:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                        > sevenspringss@w... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Mike's post saying his Pacu bit his Oscar's dorsal
                                                                                                                                                                        > fin; and apparently you've seen the same thing happen. I noted
                                                                                                                                                                        > Mike's post, but still say that a Pacu will not take a chunk out
                                                                                                                                                                        of
                                                                                                                                                                        > any large fish too large to fit in its mouth
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Hi Ray,
                                                                                                                                                                        > I don't think my pacu was out to consume my oscar, the oscar may
                                                                                                                                                                        have been
                                                                                                                                                                        > harrassing the pacu and the pacu may have just nipped him right
                                                                                                                                                                        back. I think
                                                                                                                                                                        > you are right on track about eating what may fit in their
                                                                                                                                                                        mouthes. More
                                                                                                                                                                        > opportunistic than anything.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Mike
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11223 From: dumont53 Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 757
                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                        From: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                        To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 10:42 PM
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 757



                                                                                                                                                                        There are 25 messages in this issue.

                                                                                                                                                                        Topics in this digest:

                                                                                                                                                                        1. Fwd: Unsubscvribe
                                                                                                                                                                        From: JOHN BERG <dumont53@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        2. RE: Fwd: Unsubscvribe
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Dane & Leslie Moore" <amjmail@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        3. simplifying
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "kb1dva" <vze3pd7a@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        4. RE: Fwd: Unsubscvribe
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Dane & Leslie Moore" <amjmail@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        5. Re: Fin rot??
                                                                                                                                                                        From: Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        6. RE: Scorpions?
                                                                                                                                                                        From: Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        7. Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        From: Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        8. RE: simplifying
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        9. RE: Fwd: Unsubscvribe
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Patrick, American Fish Guy" <patrickmn1@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        10. Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        11. RE: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                        From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        12. Re: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                        From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        13. RE: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        14. Re: Scorpions?
                                                                                                                                                                        From: Andreas <andreas1120@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        15. Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas Munro" <nmunro@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        16. I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Charlene" <muffin4494@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        17. Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Ray Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        18. Re: I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Ray Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        19. RE: I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        20. Re: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                        From: Deenerz@...
                                                                                                                                                                        21. Wanted Discus babies
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "secretlaw" <secretlaw@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        22. Re: Wanted Discus babies
                                                                                                                                                                        From: Deenerz@...
                                                                                                                                                                        23. Re: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                        From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        24. Re: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                        From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        25. Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        From: Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...>


                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 1
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 12:41:11 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                                                        From: JOHN BERG <dumont53@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Fwd: Unsubscvribe



                                                                                                                                                                        Note: forwarded message attached.


                                                                                                                                                                        [This message contained attachments]



                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 2
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 15:15:09 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Dane & Leslie Moore" <amjmail@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: Fwd: Unsubscvribe

                                                                                                                                                                        Well how nice. Apparently the members aren't smart enough to delete
                                                                                                                                                                        things below the line. Hmmmm.
                                                                                                                                                                        FYI If you want to "unsuscvribe", you do it yourself through the "my
                                                                                                                                                                        groups" in Yahoo. That too just takes a bit of reading. =P

                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Fwd: Unsubscvribe



                                                                                                                                                                        Note: forwarded message attached.
                                                                                                                                                                        *




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                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 3
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 16:20:46 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "kb1dva" <vze3pd7a@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: simplifying

                                                                                                                                                                        A hobby is supposed to be fun, rewarding. I know for a lot of people that
                                                                                                                                                                        means complicating things. But what's wrong with just enjoying it, in this
                                                                                                                                                                        case caring for your fish, watching them swimming around being happy, health
                                                                                                                                                                        fish. As far as I'm concern keep it simple. There are things that need to be
                                                                                                                                                                        complicated lets keep them down to a dull roar Emily Boston
                                                                                                                                                                        fish person!



                                                                                                                                                                        [This message contained attachments]



                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 4
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 15:22:31 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Dane & Leslie Moore" <amjmail@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: Fwd: Unsubscvribe

                                                                                                                                                                        Well I now see that he did in fact send this to the right place but that
                                                                                                                                                                        it somehow got to the group? Well that makes me look rather brilliant
                                                                                                                                                                        now doesn't it? =)
                                                                                                                                                                        So why was this forwarded?
                                                                                                                                                                        L

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                                                                                                                                                                        Based in Cabot, AR www.ZainyZebra.com

                                                                                                                                                                        Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                                        Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                                        Live in Little Rock? Little Rock Garage
                                                                                                                                                                        Sale!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                                        * -----Original Message-----



                                                                                                                                                                        [This message contained attachments]



                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 5
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 13:47:36 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                                                        From: Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Fin rot??

                                                                                                                                                                        I had a tail and fin rot in my goldfish aquarium a couple years ago. I added
                                                                                                                                                                        tetracycline and it cleared up; Maracyn2 (I think) also works

                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                        FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        I'd QT the injured fish and watch her, if the tail starts to fin rot treat
                                                                                                                                                                        but clean water and time should allow her to heal by herself.

                                                                                                                                                                        Serpae tetras are notorious fin nippers and even when kept in larger schools
                                                                                                                                                                        will still nip... I have 20 in a school and no matter what I do I still get
                                                                                                                                                                        nipped fish. Beautiful fish, that have eventually gotten there own tank....
                                                                                                                                                                        They even nip my bristlenose so becareful with the Oto's.

                                                                                                                                                                        [This message contained attachments]



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                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 6
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 13:55:11 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                                                        From: Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: Scorpions?

                                                                                                                                                                        yeah I have quite a collection :)
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                        Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:


                                                                                                                                                                        v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
                                                                                                                                                                        {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
                                                                                                                                                                        {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
                                                                                                                                                                        You have scorpions? On purpose? Lol

                                                                                                                                                                        ooooh honey not me! They'd get smooshed! =) I'm getting the heeby jeebies.



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                                                                                                                                                                        Based in Cabot, AR www.ZainyZebra.com



                                                                                                                                                                        Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot Garage Sale!
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                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 4:42 PM
                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hi again I need to have something Please help



                                                                                                                                                                        I use play sand for my scorpions. Not as sensative as a fish, I suppose, but
                                                                                                                                                                        I've never had a problem. I think it's safe most likely.


                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                        Charlene <muffin4494@...> wrote:


                                                                                                                                                                        Hi Can anyone tell me " What kind of play sand I can use." In my 55
                                                                                                                                                                        ga tank.

                                                                                                                                                                        I have " Kiddlies fun play sand" It is orange and gress lable
                                                                                                                                                                        on it. It all so say on it " Ideal for building and mounding"
                                                                                                                                                                        Can I usa this sand.

                                                                                                                                                                        And how much sand should I ues for my 55 ga tank.



                                                                                                                                                                        Thank you for helping me Charlene
                                                                                                                                                                        muffin4494@...








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                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 7
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 14:14:01 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                                                        From: Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank

                                                                                                                                                                        Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                                        A couple of weeks ago I set up a new 55 gal tank with an undergravel filter
                                                                                                                                                                        plus a side filter (the waterfall kind). I added some water from my
                                                                                                                                                                        established goldfish aquarium and a bit of the gravel as well. I added some
                                                                                                                                                                        live plants, 4 rosy red minnows to get it cycling and some small snails.

                                                                                                                                                                        However, since it's going to be a goldfish tank, I decided about a week ago
                                                                                                                                                                        to add 2 medium comets and one tiny goldfish (the size of a minnow) because
                                                                                                                                                                        I thought that might speed up the cycle since the comets produce more waste
                                                                                                                                                                        than the rosy red minnows. I realized now that I might have added too many
                                                                                                                                                                        fish too soon. I have one large black moor and a medium bluescale oranda
                                                                                                                                                                        that I intend to add after it's cycled.

                                                                                                                                                                        I've been checking the water chemistry and the ammonia levels are down, but
                                                                                                                                                                        nitrites are up to 3ppm (stress zone). I did a 20% water change and then a
                                                                                                                                                                        10% water change with a gravel vacuum and added stress zyme. I'm wondering
                                                                                                                                                                        what I else I can do to get along with the cycle and drive down the
                                                                                                                                                                        nitrites. Nitrates are only at 30 ppm so far. pH is 6.4, alkalinity is 0 and
                                                                                                                                                                        the water is hard. I've been adding salt at a rate of 0.5 tsp/gal because I
                                                                                                                                                                        read that it helps detoxify nitrites. I had a bag of zeolite in the tank for
                                                                                                                                                                        a while but removed it because I was adding salt. I have 2 zeolite and 2
                                                                                                                                                                        carbon cartridges in the under gravel filter and a regular carbon cartridge
                                                                                                                                                                        in the side filter.

                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks a lot for your help,
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily


                                                                                                                                                                        [This message contained attachments]



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                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 8
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 17:31:20 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: simplifying

                                                                                                                                                                        Emily,

                                                                                                                                                                        Ahhhh! A Boston person. You been to a BAS meeting yet? If not, contact me
                                                                                                                                                                        off list and I'll get you the info on their next meeting.

                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of kb1dva
                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 4:21 PM
                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] simplifying



                                                                                                                                                                        A hobby is supposed to be fun, rewarding. I know for a lot of people that
                                                                                                                                                                        means complicating things. But what's wrong with just enjoying it, in this
                                                                                                                                                                        case caring for your fish, watching them swimming around being happy, health
                                                                                                                                                                        fish. As far as I'm concern keep it simple. There are things that need to be
                                                                                                                                                                        complicated lets keep them down to a dull roar Emily Boston
                                                                                                                                                                        fish person!



                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                        the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
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                                                                                                                                                                        in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 9
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 16:43:44 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Patrick, American Fish Guy" <patrickmn1@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: Fwd: Unsubscvribe

                                                                                                                                                                        If you ask me, this guy is what is called a "troll" that never posts on a
                                                                                                                                                                        forum and then suddenly posts something like this. They are typically
                                                                                                                                                                        criminals, prisoners, SPAMers, and other people who are neither polite nor
                                                                                                                                                                        functional members of society. As you noticed, he can't even spell
                                                                                                                                                                        unsubscribe. There is also a good chance it was sent from a virus and not
                                                                                                                                                                        this person. In that case, we should all hope we didn't get his virus!

                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.

                                                                                                                                                                        Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                        Well I now see that he did in fact send this to the right place but that it
                                                                                                                                                                        somehow got to the group? Well that makes me look rather brilliant now
                                                                                                                                                                        doesn't it? =)
                                                                                                                                                                        So why was this forwarded?
                                                                                                                                                                        L

                                                                                                                                                                        [This message contained attachments]



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                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 10
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 14:54:59 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                                                        From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank

                                                                                                                                                                        you are stopping teh tank from cycling and are going
                                                                                                                                                                        to cause yourself problems. the zeolite pulls out
                                                                                                                                                                        ammonia which is the food source for teh bacteria that
                                                                                                                                                                        are trying to grow and establish themselves. if you
                                                                                                                                                                        are actually running zeolite and have nitrites at 3,
                                                                                                                                                                        there is waaay too much ammonia coming into the
                                                                                                                                                                        system. my guess would be over feeding. by doing
                                                                                                                                                                        such large water changes and using ammonia removers
                                                                                                                                                                        you are not going to successfully cycle that tank!
                                                                                                                                                                        --- Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                                        > A couple of weeks ago I set up a new 55 gal tank
                                                                                                                                                                        > with an undergravel filter plus a side filter (the
                                                                                                                                                                        > waterfall kind). I added some water from my
                                                                                                                                                                        > established goldfish aquarium and a bit of the
                                                                                                                                                                        > gravel as well. I added some live plants, 4 rosy red
                                                                                                                                                                        > minnows to get it cycling and some small snails.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > However, since it's going to be a goldfish tank, I
                                                                                                                                                                        > decided about a week ago to add 2 medium comets and
                                                                                                                                                                        > one tiny goldfish (the size of a minnow) because I
                                                                                                                                                                        > thought that might speed up the cycle since the
                                                                                                                                                                        > comets produce more waste than the rosy red minnows.
                                                                                                                                                                        > I realized now that I might have added too many fish
                                                                                                                                                                        > too soon. I have one large black moor and a medium
                                                                                                                                                                        > bluescale oranda that I intend to add after it's
                                                                                                                                                                        > cycled.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > I've been checking the water chemistry and the
                                                                                                                                                                        > ammonia levels are down, but nitrites are up to 3ppm
                                                                                                                                                                        > (stress zone). I did a 20% water change and then a
                                                                                                                                                                        > 10% water change with a gravel vacuum and added
                                                                                                                                                                        > stress zyme. I'm wondering what I else I can do to
                                                                                                                                                                        > get along with the cycle and drive down the
                                                                                                                                                                        > nitrites. Nitrates are only at 30 ppm so far. pH is
                                                                                                                                                                        > 6.4, alkalinity is 0 and the water is hard. I've
                                                                                                                                                                        > been adding salt at a rate of 0.5 tsp/gal because I
                                                                                                                                                                        > read that it helps detoxify nitrites. I had a bag of
                                                                                                                                                                        > zeolite in the tank for a while but removed it
                                                                                                                                                                        > because I was adding salt. I have 2 zeolite and 2
                                                                                                                                                                        > carbon cartridges in the under gravel filter and a
                                                                                                                                                                        > regular carbon cartridge in the side filter.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Thanks a lot for your help,
                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 11
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 14:58:29 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                                                        From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: Re: algae eaters

                                                                                                                                                                        in many cases, the old 51/4's will have lost or
                                                                                                                                                                        corrupted data due to loss of static
                                                                                                                                                                        --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > Rob,
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Yes. In fact, I have a copy of WordStar on a
                                                                                                                                                                        > bootable DOS partition. Haven't
                                                                                                                                                                        > used it in ages, though. The reason I keep that
                                                                                                                                                                        > bootable DOS partition is
                                                                                                                                                                        > that one of these days I am going to go through all
                                                                                                                                                                        > of the old disks and
                                                                                                                                                                        > transfer the files to a more modern format.
                                                                                                                                                                        > Unfortunately, that has not yet
                                                                                                                                                                        > happened. I even have a spare 5 1/4 floppy drive
                                                                                                                                                                        > hanging around for the job.
                                                                                                                                                                        > Just hope it still works when I get around to it.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                        > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 8:38 AM
                                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > wow wordstar thats showing your age LOL
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > haven't seen that for ever..
                                                                                                                                                                        > still got software? don't think I have seen
                                                                                                                                                                        > something to open wordstar
                                                                                                                                                                        > since my commodore64 days LMAO
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > rob
                                                                                                                                                                        > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > In a message dated 5/8/2005 7:27:34 AM US Eastern
                                                                                                                                                                        > Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                                        > steve@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > BTW, I still have the original text of the wild
                                                                                                                                                                        > betta species
                                                                                                                                                                        > manuscript on
                                                                                                                                                                        > disk around here somewhere--in WordStar format.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 12
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 14:59:44 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                                                        From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re: Pacu 911

                                                                                                                                                                        lmao...guess you have not had many, or seen them with
                                                                                                                                                                        other fish then huh? they will dessimate an aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                        in a matter of a month. i have seen them rip the fins
                                                                                                                                                                        apart of oscars 2-3 times their size.
                                                                                                                                                                        --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                        > Agreed, Pacu's will take a bite out of anything (of
                                                                                                                                                                        > a vegetative
                                                                                                                                                                        > nature), such as a piece of fruit that has fallen
                                                                                                                                                                        > into the water.
                                                                                                                                                                        > Same as a goldfish would, or as a number of members
                                                                                                                                                                        > on this forum are
                                                                                                                                                                        > starting to feed their fish zucinni and/or cucumber.
                                                                                                                                                                        > This is not to
                                                                                                                                                                        > say that Cory catfish will take a bite out of
                                                                                                                                                                        > another fish. Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                        > are not inclined to tear a larger fish up, nor are
                                                                                                                                                                        > they equipped to
                                                                                                                                                                        > do so. Larger fish are not in their diet. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > \
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                        > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > except that a pacu will take bites out of anything
                                                                                                                                                                        > in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > its midst, unlike an oscar who will only generally
                                                                                                                                                                        > eat
                                                                                                                                                                        > > what fits in its mouth.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Nan, In the scientific community, Pacu's are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > categorized as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Herbivores; their diet consisting mainly of
                                                                                                                                                                        > plant
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > material. While
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > they are in the same family as Piranhas, that
                                                                                                                                                                        > family
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > also includes
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Silver Dollars (Piranha-like herbivores) as well
                                                                                                                                                                        > as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > the Neon,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Cardinal and all other community tank Tetras.
                                                                                                                                                                        > They
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > are also related
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > to freshwater Trout and Salmon, and yes, the
                                                                                                                                                                        > feared
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > African Tiger
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Fish (Hydrocynus) of which there are about six
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > species in the genus,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > one getting to 12 feet and known to pull African
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > fisherman into the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > river -- by the legs, not by the line! Like
                                                                                                                                                                        > most
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > other fish, Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > are opportunists and if a fish will fit in its
                                                                                                                                                                        > mouth
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > it will eat it.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > In that respect you could say its an Omnivore,
                                                                                                                                                                        > but
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > again, most any
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Herbivore will take in a fish if its small
                                                                                                                                                                        > enough to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > fit in its
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > mouth. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Pacu's Herbivores????? That is a new one to
                                                                                                                                                                        > me,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > since they are in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > the same family, I believe and I could be wrong,
                                                                                                                                                                        > as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > priannah
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > (spelling sucks tonight, sorry!). In fact, they
                                                                                                                                                                        > are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > very much a
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > carnivore. Many breeders I know keep them or
                                                                                                                                                                        > Oscars
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > for when they
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > cull their fry, and use the fry as food for
                                                                                                                                                                        > them.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > This was back before I knew better. :) When I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > bought the pacu, it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > the same size as the tiger barbs I had. When
                                                                                                                                                                        > it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > other fish, I didn't think it would eat them -
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > pacus are supposed
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > to be
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > herbivores, after all.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > tank he
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > because he had gotten big enough that he
                                                                                                                                                                        > was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > the tank (as well as the other fish - I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > actually
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > Here's a photo that might help.he seems
                                                                                                                                                                        > to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > be
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Hilton.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > whole thing was given away.i thought
                                                                                                                                                                        > they
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > would
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > have enough room. Plants are good hiding
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > places
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > rock
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > with the hole in it.but back to what can
                                                                                                                                                                        > I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > do for
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > him Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Please delete this line and everything below
                                                                                                                                                                        > it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all
                                                                                                                                                                        > text
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > that is not
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > important to the reply and if changing the topic
                                                                                                                                                                        > of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > the original
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new
                                                                                                                                                                        > subject
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your
                                                                                                                                                                        > help
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 13
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 18:06:55 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank

                                                                                                                                                                        Emily,

                                                                                                                                                                        You pretty much have to ride the cycle out. Amquel is a product you might
                                                                                                                                                                        want to try as it converts nitrogen products to a non-toxic form, and using
                                                                                                                                                                        the proper test kit )I believe it is the Nesslar reagents you need, but I'd
                                                                                                                                                                        have to look it up to be sure) will still allow you to get an accurate
                                                                                                                                                                        measurement of the ammonia. You are two weeks into the cycle, so you have at
                                                                                                                                                                        least a couple of more weeks to go to completion. If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                        type of filtration in your other tank--the UGF--you can take some of the
                                                                                                                                                                        substrate from that tank and place it in the new tank to add to your
                                                                                                                                                                        bacterial colonies.

                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 5:14 PM
                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife; UniQuaria
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank


                                                                                                                                                                        Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                                        A couple of weeks ago I set up a new 55 gal tank with an undergravel filter
                                                                                                                                                                        plus a side filter (the waterfall kind). I added some water from my
                                                                                                                                                                        established goldfish aquarium and a bit of the gravel as well. I added some
                                                                                                                                                                        live plants, 4 rosy red minnows to get it cycling and some small snails.

                                                                                                                                                                        However, since it's going to be a goldfish tank, I decided about a week ago
                                                                                                                                                                        to add 2 medium comets and one tiny goldfish (the size of a minnow) because
                                                                                                                                                                        I thought that might speed up the cycle since the comets produce more waste
                                                                                                                                                                        than the rosy red minnows. I realized now that I might have added too many
                                                                                                                                                                        fish too soon. I have one large black moor and a medium bluescale oranda
                                                                                                                                                                        that I intend to add after it's cycled.

                                                                                                                                                                        I've been checking the water chemistry and the ammonia levels are down, but
                                                                                                                                                                        nitrites are up to 3ppm (stress zone). I did a 20% water change and then a
                                                                                                                                                                        10% water change with a gravel vacuum and added stress zyme. I'm wondering
                                                                                                                                                                        what I else I can do to get along with the cycle and drive down the
                                                                                                                                                                        nitrites. Nitrates are only at 30 ppm so far. pH is 6.4, alkalinity is 0 and
                                                                                                                                                                        the water is hard. I've been adding salt at a rate of 0.5 tsp/gal because I
                                                                                                                                                                        read that it helps detoxify nitrites. I had a bag of zeolite in the tank for
                                                                                                                                                                        a while but removed it because I was adding salt. I have 2 zeolite and 2
                                                                                                                                                                        carbon cartridges in the under gravel filter and a regular carbon cartridge
                                                                                                                                                                        in the side filter.

                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks a lot for your help,
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily



                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 14
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 17:44:40 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                        From: Andreas <andreas1120@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Scorpions?

                                                                                                                                                                        Do you have to keep the scorpions with symbiotic mites? Do the mites
                                                                                                                                                                        ever get out and infest the house?

                                                                                                                                                                        Andreas

                                                                                                                                                                        On 5/8/05, Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > yeah I have quite a collection :)
                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > You have scorpions? On purpose? Lol
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > ooooh honey not me! They'd get smooshed! =) I'm getting the heeby
                                                                                                                                                                        jeebies.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Have kids stuff? Want $$$ for it? Check out Zainy Zebra Consignment!
                                                                                                                                                                        > Based in Cabot, AR www.ZainyZebra.com
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Live in or near Cabot? Like Cheap/Free stuff? Join the Cabot Garage
                                                                                                                                                                        Sale!
                                                                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Live in Little Rock? Little Rock Garage
                                                                                                                                                                        > Sale!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 4:42 PM
                                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hi again I need to have something Please help
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > I use play sand for my scorpions. Not as sensative as a fish, I suppose,
                                                                                                                                                                        but
                                                                                                                                                                        > I've never had a problem. I think it's safe most likely.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Charlene <muffin4494@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Hi Can anyone tell me " What kind of play sand I can use." In my 55
                                                                                                                                                                        > ga tank.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > I have " Kiddlies fun play sand" It is orange and gress lable
                                                                                                                                                                        > on it. It all so say on it " Ideal for building and mounding"
                                                                                                                                                                        > Can I usa this sand.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > And how much sand should I ues for my 55 ga tank.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Thank you for helping me Charlene
                                                                                                                                                                        > muffin4494@...
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that ! is not important
                                                                                                                                                                        to
                                                                                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                        in
                                                                                                                                                                        > Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > ________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 15
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 09:47:08 +1000
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Nicolas Munro" <nmunro@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                                        I went to a different LFS on the weekend which had a lot of nice looking
                                                                                                                                                                        plants.The LFS's Elodia was very very dark green.


                                                                                                                                                                        ...My Elodia is a light light green/almost yellow color, and i thought that
                                                                                                                                                                        was normal. So I asked the guy what he does to get it DARK GREEN and he
                                                                                                                                                                        said just added neutrients...


                                                                                                                                                                        So i now think that my tank isn't lacking CO2 because every thing is really
                                                                                                                                                                        fast growing, its lacking the neutrients I the water and I have since
                                                                                                                                                                        brought some Seachem Flourish plant neutrents (250ml) put that in my tank
                                                                                                                                                                        yesterday and this morning... maybe the plants are a little darker today not
                                                                                                                                                                        sure as yet early days.


                                                                                                                                                                        [This message contained attachments]



                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 16
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 00:07:56 -0000
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Charlene" <muffin4494@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: I need to have something Please help

                                                                                                                                                                        Hi Ok I just got my heater. I got 2 75 w for my 55 ga tank. Now I need
                                                                                                                                                                        to know where should I put them. And should I got a THERMOMETER And
                                                                                                                                                                        what kind should I got. Thank you for helping me Charlene
                                                                                                                                                                        muffin4494@...




                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 17
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 01:34:55 -0000
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Ray Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Pacu 911

                                                                                                                                                                        Hey Paul, Figured you might reply to my most recent Pacu post,
                                                                                                                                                                        especially after Mike's post saying his Pacu bit his Oscar's dorsal
                                                                                                                                                                        fin; and apparently you've seen the same thing happen. I noted
                                                                                                                                                                        Mike's post, but still say that a Pacu will not take a chunk out of
                                                                                                                                                                        any large fish too large to fit in its mouth, but will only take a
                                                                                                                                                                        fish if it can swallow it whole. I never said it wouldn't rip fins.
                                                                                                                                                                        Many Characoides (and Cyprinids as well) are known fin nippers --
                                                                                                                                                                        Pacus just do it on a large scale -- they're large fish. But, they
                                                                                                                                                                        won't take a chunk of flesh out of another fish like a Piranha will.
                                                                                                                                                                        It seems our new member Dawana's Black Skirt Tetra's fins may have
                                                                                                                                                                        been bitten up by her Serpae Tetras. I'm note arguing the fact that
                                                                                                                                                                        a Pacu can dessimate an aquarium in short time; am just pointing out
                                                                                                                                                                        they are not flesh eaters (as in biting out chunks of flesh from a
                                                                                                                                                                        larger fish), and that such food is not part of their diet, with the
                                                                                                                                                                        exception of anything mouth size. Just about any fish I can think of
                                                                                                                                                                        will swallow a fish small enough to fit in its mouth, there are very
                                                                                                                                                                        few that won't. Most any fish are opportunists in this respect.
                                                                                                                                                                        This is not to say that they are all omnivores and as such there are
                                                                                                                                                                        no herbivores then. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > lmao...guess you have not had many, or seen them with
                                                                                                                                                                        > other fish then huh? they will dessimate an aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                        > in a matter of a month. i have seen them rip the fins
                                                                                                                                                                        > apart of oscars 2-3 times their size.
                                                                                                                                                                        > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Agreed, Pacu's will take a bite out of anything (of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > a vegetative
                                                                                                                                                                        > > nature), such as a piece of fruit that has fallen
                                                                                                                                                                        > > into the water.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Same as a goldfish would, or as a number of members
                                                                                                                                                                        > > on this forum are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > starting to feed their fish zucinni and/or cucumber.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > This is not to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > say that Cory catfish will take a bite out of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > another fish. Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                        > > are not inclined to tear a larger fish up, nor are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > they equipped to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > do so. Larger fish are not in their diet. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > \
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                        > > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > except that a pacu will take bites out of anything
                                                                                                                                                                        > > in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > its midst, unlike an oscar who will only generally
                                                                                                                                                                        > > eat
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > what fits in its mouth.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Nan, In the scientific community, Pacu's are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > categorized as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Herbivores; their diet consisting mainly of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > plant
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > material. While
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > they are in the same family as Piranhas, that
                                                                                                                                                                        > > family
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > also includes
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Silver Dollars (Piranha-like herbivores) as well
                                                                                                                                                                        > > as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > the Neon,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Cardinal and all other community tank Tetras.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > They
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > are also related
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > to freshwater Trout and Salmon, and yes, the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > feared
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > African Tiger
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Fish (Hydrocynus) of which there are about six
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > species in the genus,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > one getting to 12 feet and known to pull African
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > fisherman into the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > river -- by the legs, not by the line! Like
                                                                                                                                                                        > > most
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > other fish, Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > are opportunists and if a fish will fit in its
                                                                                                                                                                        > > mouth
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > it will eat it.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > In that respect you could say its an Omnivore,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > but
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > again, most any
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Herbivore will take in a fish if its small
                                                                                                                                                                        > > enough to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > fit in its
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > mouth. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Pacu's Herbivores????? That is a new one to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > me,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > since they are in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > the same family, I believe and I could be wrong,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > priannah
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > (spelling sucks tonight, sorry!). In fact, they
                                                                                                                                                                        > > are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > very much a
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > carnivore. Many breeders I know keep them or
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Oscars
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > for when they
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > cull their fry, and use the fry as food for
                                                                                                                                                                        > > them.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > This was back before I knew better. :) When I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > bought the pacu, it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > the same size as the tiger barbs I had. When
                                                                                                                                                                        > > it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > other fish, I didn't think it would eat them -
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > pacus are supposed
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > to be
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > herbivores, after all.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > tank he
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > because he had gotten big enough that he
                                                                                                                                                                        > > was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > the tank (as well as the other fish - I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > actually
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > Here's a photo that might help.he seems
                                                                                                                                                                        > > to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > be
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Hilton.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > whole thing was given away.i thought
                                                                                                                                                                        > > they
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > would
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > have enough room. Plants are good hiding
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > places
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > rock
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > with the hole in it.but back to what can
                                                                                                                                                                        > > I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > do for
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > him Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Please delete this line and everything below
                                                                                                                                                                        > > it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all
                                                                                                                                                                        > > text
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > that is not
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > important to the reply and if changing the topic
                                                                                                                                                                        > > of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > the original
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new
                                                                                                                                                                        > > subject
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your
                                                                                                                                                                        > > help
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 18
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 01:54:29 -0000
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Ray Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: I need to have something Please help

                                                                                                                                                                        Yes, a thermometer is recommended to keep tabs on the temperature, even
                                                                                                                                                                        though many submersible heaters are adjustable to the "exact"
                                                                                                                                                                        temperature setting you want to maintain. Its a must if you have hang
                                                                                                                                                                        on heaters with no setting readings, just the control knob. Type to
                                                                                                                                                                        get is more or less a personal matter, just make sure its accurate.
                                                                                                                                                                        Some people like the hang-ons and others like the ones with the suction
                                                                                                                                                                        cups. Best to put the heaters at opposite ends of the aquarium. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Charlene" <muffin4494@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > Hi Ok I just got my heater. I got 2 75 w for my 55 ga tank. Now I
                                                                                                                                                                        need
                                                                                                                                                                        > to know where should I put them. And should I got a THERMOMETER And
                                                                                                                                                                        > what kind should I got. Thank you for helping me Charlene
                                                                                                                                                                        > muffin4494@y...




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                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 19
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 22:00:00 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: I need to have something Please help

                                                                                                                                                                        When running two heaters, I usually place them at opposite ends of the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                        I also place them in different outlets that are separately fused, so if I
                                                                                                                                                                        lose power to one when a breaker trips, the other one is still good to go.
                                                                                                                                                                        This last can be difficult to do.

                                                                                                                                                                        Of course you need a thermometer. How else will you know what your water
                                                                                                                                                                        temperature is? <g> I prefer the in the tank type, but the LCD type that you
                                                                                                                                                                        stick on the outside of the tank are also pretty accurate.


                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of Charlene
                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 8:08 PM
                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] I need to have something Please help

                                                                                                                                                                        Hi Ok I just got my heater. I got 2 75 w for my 55 ga tank. Now I need
                                                                                                                                                                        to know where should I put them. And should I got a THERMOMETER And
                                                                                                                                                                        what kind should I got. Thank you for helping me Charlene
                                                                                                                                                                        muffin4494@...



                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 20
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 23:29:29 EDT
                                                                                                                                                                        From: Deenerz@...
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re: Pacu 911


                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/8/2005 6:35:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                        sevenspringss@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                        Mike's post saying his Pacu bit his Oscar's dorsal
                                                                                                                                                                        fin; and apparently you've seen the same thing happen. I noted
                                                                                                                                                                        Mike's post, but still say that a Pacu will not take a chunk out of
                                                                                                                                                                        any large fish too large to fit in its mouth


                                                                                                                                                                        Hi Ray,
                                                                                                                                                                        I don't think my pacu was out to consume my oscar, the oscar may have been
                                                                                                                                                                        harrassing the pacu and the pacu may have just nipped him right back. I
                                                                                                                                                                        think
                                                                                                                                                                        you are right on track about eating what may fit in their mouthes. More
                                                                                                                                                                        opportunistic than anything.

                                                                                                                                                                        Mike


                                                                                                                                                                        [This message contained attachments]



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                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 21
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 04:01:27 -0000
                                                                                                                                                                        From: "secretlaw" <secretlaw@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Wanted Discus babies

                                                                                                                                                                        Does anyone have any discus babies that I can buy?




                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 22
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 00:03:02 EDT
                                                                                                                                                                        From: Deenerz@...
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Wanted Discus babies


                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/8/2005 9:02:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                        secretlaw@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                        Does anyone have any discus babies that I can buy?


                                                                                                                                                                        Where are you located?


                                                                                                                                                                        [This message contained attachments]



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                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 23
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 21:20:34 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                                                        From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re: Pacu 911

                                                                                                                                                                        i have also seen them rip the eyes out of large
                                                                                                                                                                        dempseys, 10 inchers, and eat them. seen them take
                                                                                                                                                                        bites out of the tail sections of red devils and green
                                                                                                                                                                        terrors as well. not just defensively, but killed and
                                                                                                                                                                        began to eat them. i have worked in an lfs for over 3
                                                                                                                                                                        years, and we just don't have space to house large
                                                                                                                                                                        fish at the rate people want to get rid of them, so
                                                                                                                                                                        often times they end up in a "ghetto" tank where it is
                                                                                                                                                                        survivial of the fittests. the most recent incident
                                                                                                                                                                        was a pair of large dempseys housed with a pair of
                                                                                                                                                                        oscars and a pair of pacus (pair meaning 2 no m/f).
                                                                                                                                                                        within 30 days, the dempseys had no tails left and the
                                                                                                                                                                        oscars were missing chunks out of their heads and
                                                                                                                                                                        behind teh gill plates. the oscars and dempseys
                                                                                                                                                                        showed no aggression towards eachother. these are not
                                                                                                                                                                        just mean streaks, the pacus are actually removing
                                                                                                                                                                        chunks out of fish up to 2x their size
                                                                                                                                                                        --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                        > Hey Paul, Figured you might reply to my most recent
                                                                                                                                                                        > Pacu post,
                                                                                                                                                                        > especially after Mike's post saying his Pacu bit his
                                                                                                                                                                        > Oscar's dorsal
                                                                                                                                                                        > fin; and apparently you've seen the same thing
                                                                                                                                                                        > happen. I noted
                                                                                                                                                                        > Mike's post, but still say that a Pacu will not take
                                                                                                                                                                        > a chunk out of
                                                                                                                                                                        > any large fish too large to fit in its mouth, but
                                                                                                                                                                        > will only take a
                                                                                                                                                                        > fish if it can swallow it whole. I never said it
                                                                                                                                                                        > wouldn't rip fins.
                                                                                                                                                                        > Many Characoides (and Cyprinids as well) are known
                                                                                                                                                                        > fin nippers --
                                                                                                                                                                        > Pacus just do it on a large scale -- they're large
                                                                                                                                                                        > fish. But, they
                                                                                                                                                                        > won't take a chunk of flesh out of another fish like
                                                                                                                                                                        > a Piranha will.
                                                                                                                                                                        > It seems our new member Dawana's Black Skirt Tetra's
                                                                                                                                                                        > fins may have
                                                                                                                                                                        > been bitten up by her Serpae Tetras. I'm note
                                                                                                                                                                        > arguing the fact that
                                                                                                                                                                        > a Pacu can dessimate an aquarium in short time; am
                                                                                                                                                                        > just pointing out
                                                                                                                                                                        > they are not flesh eaters (as in biting out chunks
                                                                                                                                                                        > of flesh from a
                                                                                                                                                                        > larger fish), and that such food is not part of
                                                                                                                                                                        > their diet, with the
                                                                                                                                                                        > exception of anything mouth size. Just about any
                                                                                                                                                                        > fish I can think of
                                                                                                                                                                        > will swallow a fish small enough to fit in its
                                                                                                                                                                        > mouth, there are very
                                                                                                                                                                        > few that won't. Most any fish are opportunists in
                                                                                                                                                                        > this respect.
                                                                                                                                                                        > This is not to say that they are all omnivores and
                                                                                                                                                                        > as such there are
                                                                                                                                                                        > no herbivores then. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        > \
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                        > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > lmao...guess you have not had many, or seen them
                                                                                                                                                                        > with
                                                                                                                                                                        > > other fish then huh? they will dessimate an
                                                                                                                                                                        > aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                        > > in a matter of a month. i have seen them rip the
                                                                                                                                                                        > fins
                                                                                                                                                                        > > apart of oscars 2-3 times their size.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Agreed, Pacu's will take a bite out of anything
                                                                                                                                                                        > (of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > a vegetative
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > nature), such as a piece of fruit that has
                                                                                                                                                                        > fallen
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > into the water.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Same as a goldfish would, or as a number of
                                                                                                                                                                        > members
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > on this forum are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > starting to feed their fish zucinni and/or
                                                                                                                                                                        > cucumber.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > This is not to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > say that Cory catfish will take a bite out of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > another fish. Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > are not inclined to tear a larger fish up, nor
                                                                                                                                                                        > are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > they equipped to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > do so. Larger fish are not in their diet. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > except that a pacu will take bites out of
                                                                                                                                                                        > anything
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > its midst, unlike an oscar who will only
                                                                                                                                                                        > generally
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > eat
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > what fits in its mouth.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Nan, In the scientific community, Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                        > are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > categorized as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Herbivores; their diet consisting mainly of
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > plant
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > material. While
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > they are in the same family as Piranhas,
                                                                                                                                                                        > that
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > family
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > also includes
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Silver Dollars (Piranha-like herbivores) as
                                                                                                                                                                        > well
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > the Neon,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Cardinal and all other community tank
                                                                                                                                                                        > Tetras.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > They
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > are also related
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > to freshwater Trout and Salmon, and yes, the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > feared
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > African Tiger
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Fish (Hydrocynus) of which there are about
                                                                                                                                                                        > six
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > species in the genus,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > one getting to 12 feet and known to pull
                                                                                                                                                                        > African
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > fisherman into the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > river -- by the legs, not by the line! Like
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > most
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > other fish, Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > are opportunists and if a fish will fit in
                                                                                                                                                                        > its
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > mouth
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > it will eat it.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > In that respect you could say its an
                                                                                                                                                                        > Omnivore,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > but
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > again, most any
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > Herbivore will take in a fish if its small
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > enough to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > fit in its
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > mouth. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > Pacu's Herbivores????? That is a new one
                                                                                                                                                                        > to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > me,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > since they are in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > the same family, I believe and I could be
                                                                                                                                                                        > wrong,
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > as
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > priannah
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > (spelling sucks tonight, sorry!). In fact,
                                                                                                                                                                        > they
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > are
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > very much a
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > carnivore. Many breeders I know keep them
                                                                                                                                                                        > or
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Oscars
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > for when they
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > cull their fry, and use the fry as food for
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > them.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > This was back before I knew better. :)
                                                                                                                                                                        > When I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > bought the pacu, it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > the same size as the tiger barbs I had.
                                                                                                                                                                        > When
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > it
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > other fish, I didn't think it would eat
                                                                                                                                                                        > them -
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > pacus are supposed
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > to be
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > herbivores, after all.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150
                                                                                                                                                                        > gal.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > tank he
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > because he had gotten big enough that
                                                                                                                                                                        > he
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > was
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > the tank (as well as the other fish -
                                                                                                                                                                        > I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > actually
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > > Here's a photo that might help.he
                                                                                                                                                                        > seems
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > to
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > be
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > > > > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        === message truncated ===




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                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 24
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 21:21:36 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                                                        From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re: Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                                        what is your lightiung situation btw? elodia is a low
                                                                                                                                                                        light plant but does best under 2 watts per gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                        if it is turning yellow it is losing chloroplasts
                                                                                                                                                                        --- Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > I went to a different LFS on the weekend which had a
                                                                                                                                                                        > lot of nice looking plants.The LFS's Elodia was very
                                                                                                                                                                        > very dark green.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > ...My Elodia is a light light green/almost yellow
                                                                                                                                                                        > color, and i thought that was normal. So I asked
                                                                                                                                                                        > the guy what he does to get it DARK GREEN and he
                                                                                                                                                                        > said just added neutrients...
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > So i now think that my tank isn't lacking CO2
                                                                                                                                                                        > because every thing is really fast growing, its
                                                                                                                                                                        > lacking the neutrients I the water and I have since
                                                                                                                                                                        > brought some Seachem Flourish plant neutrents
                                                                                                                                                                        > (250ml) put that in my tank yesterday and this
                                                                                                                                                                        > morning... maybe the plants are a little darker
                                                                                                                                                                        > today not sure as yet early days.
                                                                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 25
                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 22:42:16 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                                                        From: Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...>
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank

                                                                                                                                                                        So what do you suggest then....should I just pull the zeolite completely for
                                                                                                                                                                        now and use carbon??
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                        paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        you are stopping teh tank from cycling and are going
                                                                                                                                                                        to cause yourself problems. the zeolite pulls out
                                                                                                                                                                        ammonia which is the food source for teh bacteria that
                                                                                                                                                                        are trying to grow and establish themselves. if you
                                                                                                                                                                        are actually running zeolite and have nitrites at 3,
                                                                                                                                                                        there is waaay too much ammonia coming into the
                                                                                                                                                                        system. my guess would be over feeding. by doing
                                                                                                                                                                        such large water changes and using ammonia removers
                                                                                                                                                                        you are not going to successfully cycle that tank!
                                                                                                                                                                        --- Emily Tenczar wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                                        > A couple of weeks ago I set up a new 55 gal tank
                                                                                                                                                                        > with an undergravel filter plus a side filter (the
                                                                                                                                                                        > waterfall kind). I added some water from my
                                                                                                                                                                        > established goldfish aquarium and a bit of the
                                                                                                                                                                        > gravel as well. I added some live plants, 4 rosy red
                                                                                                                                                                        > minnows to get it cycling and some small snails.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > However, since it's going to be a goldfish tank, I
                                                                                                                                                                        > decided about a week ago to add 2 medium comets and
                                                                                                                                                                        > one tiny goldfish (the size of a minnow) because I
                                                                                                                                                                        > thought that might speed up the cycle since the
                                                                                                                                                                        > comets produce more waste than the rosy red minnows.
                                                                                                                                                                        > I realized now that I might have added too many fish
                                                                                                                                                                        > too soon. I have one large black moor and a medium
                                                                                                                                                                        > bluescale oranda that I intend to add after it's
                                                                                                                                                                        > cycled.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > I've been checking the water chemistry and the
                                                                                                                                                                        > ammonia levels are down, but nitrites are up to 3ppm
                                                                                                                                                                        > (stress zone). I did a 20% water change and then a
                                                                                                                                                                        > 10% water change with a gravel vacuum and added
                                                                                                                                                                        > stress zyme. I'm wondering what I else I can do to
                                                                                                                                                                        > get along with the cycle and drive down the
                                                                                                                                                                        > nitrites. Nitrates are only at 30 ppm so far. pH is
                                                                                                                                                                        > 6.4, alkalinity is 0 and the water is hard. I've
                                                                                                                                                                        > been adding salt at a rate of 0.5 tsp/gal because I
                                                                                                                                                                        > read that it helps detoxify nitrites. I had a bag of
                                                                                                                                                                        > zeolite in the tank for a while but removed it
                                                                                                                                                                        > because I was adding salt. I have 2 zeolite and 2
                                                                                                                                                                        > carbon cartridges in the under gravel filter and a
                                                                                                                                                                        > regular carbon cartridge in the side filter.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Thanks a lot for your help,
                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11224 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Plants and Light
                                                                                                                                                                        You should have about 4 of the 15 watt flourescent tubes over a 20
                                                                                                                                                                        gallon tank. What else are you doing for the plants? What kind of
                                                                                                                                                                        substrate do you have?

                                                                                                                                                                        - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                        angelasjenkins@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                        > I have plants that start out really dark green and lose color over
                                                                                                                                                                        > time. I have a 15 watt flourescent bulb in a 20 gallon tank. Is
                                                                                                                                                                        > this enough light? Should I add anything for the plants?
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Angela
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11225 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        remove the carbon altogether?? How would the carbon slow down the process??
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                        FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        I'd suggest to stop feeding your fish. actually fed them small amount every other day. Don't do anymore waterchanges and pull both the Zeolite and the carbon from your filters. AS long as you have something in your filter for the bacteria to grow on.
                                                                                                                                                                        Without re reading this whole thread to see what kind of filter you have:
                                                                                                                                                                        Some filters have just plain sponges, or filter pads available without carbon or anything else inside .

                                                                                                                                                                        Your probally 2-3 weeks from a complete cycle just give it time.... no more adding fish... your bioload is already high if anything remove a few fish.

                                                                                                                                                                        one tired puppy
                                                                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                                                                        Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                        USA




                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/9/2005 12:42:41 AM US Eastern Standard Time, bababanana@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                        So what do you suggest then....should I just pull the zeolite completely for now and use carbon??
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily




                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11226 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        I have some Ammo-Lock that detoxifies ammonia, but does not remove it so it supposedly allows the biological filter to still grow. But the ammonia levels seem to be okay, so would the ammo-lock actually help with the nitrites as well?
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        My comets are always begging for food so it's hard to NOT feed them, lol. But they should be okay feeding only every couple of days because they have live plants to nibble on...right?
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                        Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily,

                                                                                                                                                                        You pretty much have to ride the cycle out. Amquel is a product you might
                                                                                                                                                                        want to try as it converts nitrogen products to a non-toxic form, and using
                                                                                                                                                                        the proper test kit )I believe it is the Nesslar reagents you need, but I'd
                                                                                                                                                                        have to look it up to be sure) will still allow you to get an accurate
                                                                                                                                                                        measurement of the ammonia. You are two weeks into the cycle, so you have at
                                                                                                                                                                        least a couple of more weeks to go to completion. If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                        type of filtration in your other tank--the UGF--you can take some of the
                                                                                                                                                                        substrate from that tank and place it in the new tank to add to your
                                                                                                                                                                        bacterial colonies.

                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                        ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 5:14 PM
                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife; UniQuaria
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank


                                                                                                                                                                        Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                                        A couple of weeks ago I set up a new 55 gal tank with an undergravel filter
                                                                                                                                                                        plus a side filter (the waterfall kind). I added some water from my
                                                                                                                                                                        established goldfish aquarium and a bit of the gravel as well. I added some
                                                                                                                                                                        live plants, 4 rosy red minnows to get it cycling and some small snails.

                                                                                                                                                                        However, since it's going to be a goldfish tank, I decided about a week ago
                                                                                                                                                                        to add 2 medium comets and one tiny goldfish (the size of a minnow) because
                                                                                                                                                                        I thought that might speed up the cycle since the comets produce more waste
                                                                                                                                                                        than the rosy red minnows. I realized now that I might have added too many
                                                                                                                                                                        fish too soon. I have one large black moor and a medium bluescale oranda
                                                                                                                                                                        that I intend to add after it's cycled.

                                                                                                                                                                        I've been checking the water chemistry and the ammonia levels are down, but
                                                                                                                                                                        nitrites are up to 3ppm (stress zone). I did a 20% water change and then a
                                                                                                                                                                        10% water change with a gravel vacuum and added stress zyme. I'm wondering
                                                                                                                                                                        what I else I can do to get along with the cycle and drive down the
                                                                                                                                                                        nitrites. Nitrates are only at 30 ppm so far. pH is 6.4, alkalinity is 0 and
                                                                                                                                                                        the water is hard. I've been adding salt at a rate of 0.5 tsp/gal because I
                                                                                                                                                                        read that it helps detoxify nitrites. I had a bag of zeolite in the tank for
                                                                                                                                                                        a while but removed it because I was adding salt. I have 2 zeolite and 2
                                                                                                                                                                        carbon cartridges in the under gravel filter and a regular carbon cartridge
                                                                                                                                                                        in the side filter.

                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks a lot for your help,
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily



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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11227 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Plants and Light
                                                                                                                                                                        I have a gravel substrate.  Do you just buy additional lights, or put a higher wattage bulb in the light I have?
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        Angela
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                        You should have about 4 of the 15 watt flourescent tubes over a 20
                                                                                                                                                                        gallon tank. What else are you doing for the plants? What kind of
                                                                                                                                                                        substrate do you have?

                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11228 From: Trevor Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        Why should it matter whether she's using a UGF in both tanks? The
                                                                                                                                                                        gravel from the established tank should have bacteria in it no matter
                                                                                                                                                                        what kind of filter she's using (or even if she weren't using a filter).

                                                                                                                                                                        - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                        > type of filtration in your other tank--the UGF--you can take some of the
                                                                                                                                                                        > substrate from that tank and place it in the new tank to add to your
                                                                                                                                                                        > bacterial colonies.
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11229 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Fw: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 757
                                                                                                                                                                        Somebody must have a virus.  Surely nobody would send stuff like this and the "unsuvscrive" message if they did not.
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11230 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Plants and Light
                                                                                                                                                                        Unless the gravel's old enough, you'll probably need to add some plant
                                                                                                                                                                        food to it (assuming you don't just have floating plants :) ). You
                                                                                                                                                                        probably won't be able to find higher wattage tubes in the same size -
                                                                                                                                                                        and your light probably isn't made for higher wattage ones anyway. You
                                                                                                                                                                        would either need to retrofit the light you have to accept higher
                                                                                                                                                                        wattage lights (like compact fluorescent) or add additional lights.
                                                                                                                                                                        Unfortunately, this is where it can get expensive.

                                                                                                                                                                        - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                        angelasjenkins@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                        > I have a gravel substrate. Do you just buy additional lights, or put
                                                                                                                                                                        > a higher wattage bulb in the light I have?
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Angela
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                        > You should have about 4 of the 15 watt flourescent tubes over a 20
                                                                                                                                                                        > gallon tank. What else are you doing for the plants? What kind of
                                                                                                                                                                        > substrate do you have?
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                        > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                        > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                        > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11231 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Fw: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 757
                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick, Those posts do look awfully strange. In that case, let's not
                                                                                                                                                                        open any more messages from << dumont53@sbcglo . . . >>. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                                                        <patrickmn1@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > Somebody must have a virus. Surely nobody would send stuff like this
                                                                                                                                                                        and
                                                                                                                                                                        > the "unsuvscrive" message if they did not.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11232 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        I did add some gravel already, but I think I could bring in some more. Is a few inches of gravel too much for a UGF?? I wanted a deeper substrate in the new planted tank because the goldfish like to dig up plants.
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                        Trevor <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        Why should it matter whether she's using a UGF in both tanks? The
                                                                                                                                                                        gravel from the established tank should have bacteria in it no matter
                                                                                                                                                                        what kind of filter she's using (or even if she weren't using a filter).

                                                                                                                                                                        - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                        > type of filtration in your other tank--the UGF--you can take some of the
                                                                                                                                                                        > substrate from that tank and place it in the new tank to add to your
                                                                                                                                                                        > bacterial colonies.





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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11233 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        because there are different types of bacteria.
                                                                                                                                                                        bacteria living above a ugf constatntly have water
                                                                                                                                                                        being pulled over them, being exposed to more oxygen
                                                                                                                                                                        and food. without this condition they may die off
                                                                                                                                                                        --- Trevor <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > Why should it matter whether she's using a UGF in
                                                                                                                                                                        > both tanks? The
                                                                                                                                                                        > gravel from the established tank should have
                                                                                                                                                                        > bacteria in it no matter
                                                                                                                                                                        > what kind of filter she's using (or even if she
                                                                                                                                                                        > weren't using a filter).
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo"
                                                                                                                                                                        > <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                        > > type of filtration in your other tank--the
                                                                                                                                                                        > UGF--you can take some of the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > substrate from that tank and place it in the new
                                                                                                                                                                        > tank to add to your
                                                                                                                                                                        > > bacterial colonies.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11234 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Plants and Light
                                                                                                                                                                        ballasts do not take higher wattage bulbs, just higher
                                                                                                                                                                        outputs. you would need to add another fixture or
                                                                                                                                                                        upgrade to a new typpe, such as power compact or t5
                                                                                                                                                                        --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > I have a gravel substrate. Do you just buy
                                                                                                                                                                        > additional lights, or put a higher wattage bulb in
                                                                                                                                                                        > the light I have?
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Angela
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                        > You should have about 4 of the 15 watt flourescent
                                                                                                                                                                        > tubes over a 20
                                                                                                                                                                        > gallon tank. What else are you doing for the plants?
                                                                                                                                                                        > What kind of
                                                                                                                                                                        > substrate do you have?




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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11235 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        A few inches is actually good, since the gravel is actually your filter
                                                                                                                                                                        media.

                                                                                                                                                                        - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                        Emily Tenczar wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                        > I did add some gravel already, but I think I could bring in some more.
                                                                                                                                                                        > Is a few inches of gravel too much for a UGF?? I wanted a deeper
                                                                                                                                                                        > substrate in the new planted tank because the goldfish like to dig up
                                                                                                                                                                        > plants.
                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > */Trevor <trevor@...>/* wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Why should it matter whether she's using a UGF in both tanks? The
                                                                                                                                                                        > gravel from the established tank should have bacteria in it no matter
                                                                                                                                                                        > what kind of filter she's using (or even if she weren't using a
                                                                                                                                                                        > filter).
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                        > > type of filtration in your other tank--the UGF--you can take
                                                                                                                                                                        > some of the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > substrate from that tank and place it in the new tank to add to your
                                                                                                                                                                        > > bacterial colonies.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11236 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        goldfish are pigs...always will eat...only need to
                                                                                                                                                                        every few days. do not use ammo lock either. nothing
                                                                                                                                                                        to inhibit. if you have nitrites that are high, they
                                                                                                                                                                        came from ammonia.
                                                                                                                                                                        --- Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > I have some Ammo-Lock that detoxifies ammonia, but
                                                                                                                                                                        > does not remove it so it supposedly allows the
                                                                                                                                                                        > biological filter to still grow. But the ammonia
                                                                                                                                                                        > levels seem to be okay, so would the ammo-lock
                                                                                                                                                                        > actually help with the nitrites as well?
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > My comets are always begging for food so it's hard
                                                                                                                                                                        > to NOT feed them, lol. But they should be okay
                                                                                                                                                                        > feeding only every couple of days because they have
                                                                                                                                                                        > live plants to nibble on...right?
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily,
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > You pretty much have to ride the cycle out. Amquel
                                                                                                                                                                        > is a product you might
                                                                                                                                                                        > want to try as it converts nitrogen products to a
                                                                                                                                                                        > non-toxic form, and using
                                                                                                                                                                        > the proper test kit )I believe it is the Nesslar
                                                                                                                                                                        > reagents you need, but I'd
                                                                                                                                                                        > have to look it up to be sure) will still allow you
                                                                                                                                                                        > to get an accurate
                                                                                                                                                                        > measurement of the ammonia. You are two weeks into
                                                                                                                                                                        > the cycle, so you have at
                                                                                                                                                                        > least a couple of more weeks to go to completion. If
                                                                                                                                                                        > you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                        > type of filtration in your other tank--the UGF--you
                                                                                                                                                                        > can take some of the
                                                                                                                                                                        > substrate from that tank and place it in the new
                                                                                                                                                                        > tank to add to your
                                                                                                                                                                        > bacterial colonies.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                        > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 5:14 PM
                                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife; UniQuaria
                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help with nitrite
                                                                                                                                                                        > cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                                        > A couple of weeks ago I set up a new 55 gal tank
                                                                                                                                                                        > with an undergravel filter
                                                                                                                                                                        > plus a side filter (the waterfall kind). I added
                                                                                                                                                                        > some water from my
                                                                                                                                                                        > established goldfish aquarium and a bit of the
                                                                                                                                                                        > gravel as well. I added some
                                                                                                                                                                        > live plants, 4 rosy red minnows to get it cycling
                                                                                                                                                                        > and some small snails.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > However, since it's going to be a goldfish tank, I
                                                                                                                                                                        > decided about a week ago
                                                                                                                                                                        > to add 2 medium comets and one tiny goldfish (the
                                                                                                                                                                        > size of a minnow) because
                                                                                                                                                                        > I thought that might speed up the cycle since the
                                                                                                                                                                        > comets produce more waste
                                                                                                                                                                        > than the rosy red minnows. I realized now that I
                                                                                                                                                                        > might have added too many
                                                                                                                                                                        > fish too soon. I have one large black moor and a
                                                                                                                                                                        > medium bluescale oranda
                                                                                                                                                                        > that I intend to add after it's cycled.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > I've been checking the water chemistry and the
                                                                                                                                                                        > ammonia levels are down, but
                                                                                                                                                                        > nitrites are up to 3ppm (stress zone). I did a 20%
                                                                                                                                                                        > water change and then a
                                                                                                                                                                        > 10% water change with a gravel vacuum and added
                                                                                                                                                                        > stress zyme. I'm wondering
                                                                                                                                                                        > what I else I can do to get along with the cycle and
                                                                                                                                                                        > drive down the
                                                                                                                                                                        > nitrites. Nitrates are only at 30 ppm so far. pH is
                                                                                                                                                                        > 6.4, alkalinity is 0 and
                                                                                                                                                                        > the water is hard. I've been adding salt at a rate
                                                                                                                                                                        > of 0.5 tsp/gal because I
                                                                                                                                                                        > read that it helps detoxify nitrites. I had a bag of
                                                                                                                                                                        > zeolite in the tank for
                                                                                                                                                                        > a while but removed it because I was adding salt. I
                                                                                                                                                                        > have 2 zeolite and 2
                                                                                                                                                                        > carbon cartridges in the under gravel filter and a
                                                                                                                                                                        > regular carbon cartridge
                                                                                                                                                                        > in the side filter.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Thanks a lot for your help,
                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                        > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
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                                                                                                                                                                        > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                                                                        > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                                        > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11237 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        it doesn't
                                                                                                                                                                        --- Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > remove the carbon altogether?? How would the carbon
                                                                                                                                                                        > slow down the process??
                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > I'd suggest to stop feeding your fish. actually fed
                                                                                                                                                                        > them small amount every other day. Don't do anymore
                                                                                                                                                                        > waterchanges and pull both the Zeolite and the
                                                                                                                                                                        > carbon from your filters. AS long as you have
                                                                                                                                                                        > something in your filter for the bacteria to grow
                                                                                                                                                                        > on.
                                                                                                                                                                        > Without re reading this whole thread to see what
                                                                                                                                                                        > kind of filter you have:
                                                                                                                                                                        > Some filters have just plain sponges, or filter pads
                                                                                                                                                                        > available without carbon or anything else inside .
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Your probally 2-3 weeks from a complete cycle just
                                                                                                                                                                        > give it time.... no more adding fish... your bioload
                                                                                                                                                                        > is already high if anything remove a few fish.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > one tired puppy
                                                                                                                                                                        > rob
                                                                                                                                                                        > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                        > USA
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > In a message dated 5/9/2005 12:42:41 AM US Eastern
                                                                                                                                                                        > Standard Time, bababanana@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > So what do you suggest then....should I just pull
                                                                                                                                                                        > the zeolite completely for now and use carbon??
                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                        > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                        > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                                                                        > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                                                                        > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                                        > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                        > matter
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11238 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Plants and Light
                                                                                                                                                                        you need at least 3x that for plants to thrive....but
                                                                                                                                                                        it may keep them alive for a time. as yuou noted
                                                                                                                                                                        though they will deteriorate over time
                                                                                                                                                                        --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > I have plants that start out really dark green and
                                                                                                                                                                        > lose color over time. I have a 15 watt flourescent
                                                                                                                                                                        > bulb in a 20 gallon tank. Is this enough light?
                                                                                                                                                                        > Should I add anything for the plants?
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Angela



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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11239 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                        My theory is that the gravel in a non-UGF tank is going to have more of
                                                                                                                                                                        the beneficial bacteria in it than the filter itself is.

                                                                                                                                                                        - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                        paul helms wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                        > because there are different types of bacteria.
                                                                                                                                                                        > bacteria living above a ugf constatntly have water
                                                                                                                                                                        > being pulled over them, being exposed to more oxygen
                                                                                                                                                                        > and food. without this condition they may die off
                                                                                                                                                                        > --- Trevor <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Why should it matter whether she's using a UGF in
                                                                                                                                                                        > > both tanks? The
                                                                                                                                                                        > > gravel from the established tank should have
                                                                                                                                                                        > > bacteria in it no matter
                                                                                                                                                                        > > what kind of filter she's using (or even if she
                                                                                                                                                                        > > weren't using a filter).
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo"
                                                                                                                                                                        > > <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > type of filtration in your other tank--the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > UGF--you can take some of the
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > substrate from that tank and place it in the new
                                                                                                                                                                        > > tank to add to your
                                                                                                                                                                        > > > bacterial colonies.
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11240 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Fw: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 757
                                                                                                                                                                        Since there haven't been any attachments or anything else added to the
                                                                                                                                                                        original messages that were being forwarded, there really isn't any
                                                                                                                                                                        reason why they wouldn't be safe to open. However, the behavior does
                                                                                                                                                                        still seem strange. Either someone did it on accident, or someone's just
                                                                                                                                                                        having some fun (according to their own definition of the word).

                                                                                                                                                                        - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                        Ray Wetzel wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                        > Patrick, Those posts do look awfully strange. In that case, let's not
                                                                                                                                                                        > open any more messages from << dumont53@sbcglo . . . >>. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                        > \
                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                                                        > <patrickmn1@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Somebody must have a virus. Surely nobody would send stuff like this
                                                                                                                                                                        > and
                                                                                                                                                                        > > the "unsuvscrive" message if they did not.
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11241 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling (carbon)
                                                                                                                                                                        The carbon isn't going to slow down the process but again it really isn't doing any good at the moment either.
                                                                                                                                                                        so why use it if you have other options.




                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/9/2005 10:13:26 AM US Eastern Standard Time, bababanana@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                        remove the carbon altogether?? How would the carbon slow down the process??
                                                                                                                                                                        Emily


                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11242 From: pamphetteplace Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Another Cycling Question
                                                                                                                                                                        Hi Guys

                                                                                                                                                                        I have a question for all you guys that have wayyyy more
                                                                                                                                                                        knowledge/experience than me (which is anybody that has been keepin'
                                                                                                                                                                        fish for more than 8 months....lol

                                                                                                                                                                        I set up my second 55 having bought it from a friend. The tank was
                                                                                                                                                                        well cycled had 3 filters, ugf, magnum 350 and a penguin with a huge
                                                                                                                                                                        biowheel....I threw in a well seeded huge sponge filter from my
                                                                                                                                                                        other 55. I used all his natural brown/tan pea gravel rinsing it
                                                                                                                                                                        gently in dechlorinated water.

                                                                                                                                                                        So I am wondering when or IF I should expect any spikes or should I
                                                                                                                                                                        consider this tank pretty well cycled? I know I tried to seed a 10
                                                                                                                                                                        gal tank recently...using a cup of gravel, water from a cycled tank
                                                                                                                                                                        and a used gently washed filter pad. This did not work at all for
                                                                                                                                                                        me.

                                                                                                                                                                        HFK

                                                                                                                                                                        Pam
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11243 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Plants and Light
                                                                                                                                                                        Would this do the trick?
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        This is the Jebo Odyssea T5 HO kit. 24" light strip with 48w. T5 super cool HO flo bulbs. One 12k and one actinic bulb. Runs cool. Puts out an amazing light spectrum much brighter than other comparable wattage bulbs.

                                                                                                                                                                        This is a black fixture with external ballast and included adjustable legs.

                                                                                                                                                                        Shipping and policies:

                                                                                                                                                                        • s/h only $12.95 anywhere in cont US!!
                                                                                                                                                                        • 2 complete bulb system
                                                                                                                                                                        • $24 Canada VIA UPS or USPS ($24) to PO Boxes, HI, PR, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                        • With warrantee and guarantee
                                                                                                                                                                        • Buy from someone you trust. We are a real store! Don't buy too cheap and don't buy from someone with 5 negatives this week!
                                                                                                                                                                        • We provide customer service for the life of your product and we will always help with warrantee for the warrantee term!
                                                                                                                                                                        • we always combine s/h for reduced rates on multiple purchases, when possible
                                                                                                                                                                        It's on ebay.
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                        Angela
                                                                                                                                                                        -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                        ballasts do not take higher wattage bulbs, just higher
                                                                                                                                                                        outputs.  you would need to add another fixture or
                                                                                                                                                                        upgrade to a new typpe, such as power compact or t5
                                                                                                                                                                        --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11244 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Another Cycling Question
                                                                                                                                                                        If you slowly add your fish  your seeded tank should be able to keep up with the increased bio-load.
                                                                                                                                                                        If you slam a bunch of fish in the tank it can not keep up and you will get a Big cycle instead of the mini cycle you should get with a seeded tank.
                                                                                                                                                                        Bacteria grow rather rapidly so a couple fish every other day should allow the bacteria to keep up without to much of a fluctuation in the cycle.

                                                                                                                                                                        hope this helps and i am sure others will reply

                                                                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                                                                        Indiana



                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/9/2005 12:22:36 PM US Eastern Standard Time, pamphetteplace@... writes:



                                                                                                                                                                        So I am wondering when or IF I should expect any spikes or should I
                                                                                                                                                                        consider this tank pretty well cycled?  I know I tried to seed a 10
                                                                                                                                                                        gal tank recently...using a cup of gravel, water from a cycled tank
                                                                                                                                                                        and a used  gently washed filter pad.   This did not work at all for
                                                                                                                                                                        me.

                                                                                                                                                                        HFK

                                                                                                                                                                        Pam


                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11245 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Plants and Light
                                                                                                                                                                        Your 20 gallon would have approx 16 gallon of water.   16x3 = 48watts  :-)   It surely would help....
                                                                                                                                                                        try and maintain 3 watts per gallon and you should be ok.  I'd also get some nourish tabs or other plant additive to add to the substrate so the planst will have the nutrients they'll need with extra light...

                                                                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                                                                        indiana

                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/9/2005 12:26:28 PM US Eastern Standard Time, angelasjenkins@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                        Would this do the trick?

                                                                                                                                                                        This is the Jebo Odyssea T5 HO kit. 24" light strip with 48w. T5 super cool HO flo bulbs. One 12k and one actinic bulb. Runs cool. Puts out an amazing light spectrum much brighter than other comparable wattage bulbs. This is a black fixture with external ballast and included adjustable legs. Shipping and policies:
                                                                                                                                                                        s/h only $12.95 anywhere in cont US!!
                                                                                                                                                                        2 complete bulb system
                                                                                                                                                                        $24 Canada VIA UPS or USPS ($24) to PO Boxes, HI, PR, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                        With warrantee and guarantee
                                                                                                                                                                        Buy from someone you trust. We are a real store! Don't buy too cheap and don't buy from someone with 5 negatives this week!
                                                                                                                                                                        We provide customer service for the life of your product and we will always help with warrantee for the warrantee term!
                                                                                                                                                                        we always combine s/h for reduced rates on multiple purchases, when possible
                                                                                                                                                                        It's on ebay.

                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                        Angela


                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11246 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Plants and Light
                                                                                                                                                                        Sorry to be a pain, but would this be better?
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        This is Bran New in the box Odyssea 24" 28 Watt T5 High Output Fluorescent Dual Light Strip.

                                                                                                                                                                        This is an Odyssea T5 Dual light strip, which has 2 21� 24W bulbs. One bulb is a 12000K-day bulb and the other is a blue Actinic bulb. These bulbs are only 5/8 in diameter and produce twice as much brightness as a regular fluorescent bulb. This unit also comes with the mounting legs if you prefer not to set it on your tank. This unit comes in a sleek black housing and has one switch, an acrylic shield protects the bulbs. I only have a limited supply and at this price they wont last long.

                                                                                                                                                                        The Dimensions are: 28" X 4" X 2"

                                                                                                                                                                        In Cont US $9.95 s/h. $19.95 to Canada (Add a extra $5 if you perfer USPS as the shipping method) Ships best available Ground service 2-7 working days. Extra $4 for USPS to APO, HI, AK, PR, etc. Item is shipped out within 24 hours of received payment. Paypal and money order preferred, all accepted! Combine with our other auctions to save on shipping!

                                                                                                                                                                          To see my other auctions,
                                                                                                                                                                          Click Here

                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                          Angela



                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                          -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                          Your 20 gallon would have approx 16 gallon of water.   16x3 = 48watts  :-)   It surely would help....
                                                                                                                                                                          try and maintain 3 watts per gallon and you should be ok.  I'd also get some nourish tabs or other plant additive to add to the substrate so the planst will have the nutrients they'll need with extra light...

                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 11247 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling (carbon)
                                                                                                                                                                          I have a filter sponge in one of the filters...
                                                                                                                                                                          Emily

                                                                                                                                                                          FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                          The carbon isn't going to slow down the process but again it really isn't doing any good at the moment either.
                                                                                                                                                                          so why use it if you have other options.




                                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 5/9/2005 10:13:26 AM US Eastern Standard Time, bababanana@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                          remove the carbon altogether?? How would the carbon slow down the process??
                                                                                                                                                                          Emily




                                                                                                                                                                          Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                                                                                          Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 11248 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                          great, I could try speeding up the cycle by adding the filter sponge from my other tank too.
                                                                                                                                                                          Emily

                                                                                                                                                                          Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                          A few inches is actually good, since the gravel is actually your filter
                                                                                                                                                                          media.

                                                                                                                                                                          - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                          Emily Tenczar wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                          > I did add some gravel already, but I think I could bring in some more.
                                                                                                                                                                          > Is a few inches of gravel too much for a UGF?? I wanted a deeper
                                                                                                                                                                          > substrate in the new planted tank because the goldfish like to dig up
                                                                                                                                                                          > plants.
                                                                                                                                                                          > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                          > */Trevor /* wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                          > Why should it matter whether she's using a UGF in both tanks? The
                                                                                                                                                                          > gravel from the established tank should have bacteria in it no matter
                                                                                                                                                                          > what kind of filter she's using (or even if she weren't using a
                                                                                                                                                                          > filter).
                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                          > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                          > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                          > > If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                          > > type of filtration in your other tank--the UGF--you can take
                                                                                                                                                                          > some of the
                                                                                                                                                                          > > substrate from that tank and place it in the new tank to add to your
                                                                                                                                                                          > > bacterial colonies.
                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                          >


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                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 11249 From: J G Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Betta & others (tank mate??)
                                                                                                                                                                          I was at wal-mart yesterday, looking for a plant for
                                                                                                                                                                          my grandmother for mothers day... I of course stopped
                                                                                                                                                                          & checked out the fish...

                                                                                                                                                                          I glanced into their guppy tank & I noticed along with
                                                                                                                                                                          the guppies, there was a red male betta swimmin around
                                                                                                                                                                          in the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                          I was just wondering if you all here could provide
                                                                                                                                                                          some help on tank mates...

                                                                                                                                                                          I know I cant put my 2 male bettas together, but I was
                                                                                                                                                                          wonderin if I could put one in with my communal
                                                                                                                                                                          tank... Right now they're in a 5 gal tank, but as
                                                                                                                                                                          soon as I find some room to set up the 10gal I'll
                                                                                                                                                                          transfer them over to the bigger tank. In the tank is
                                                                                                                                                                          2 glow tetras (the orange neon type looking fish), a
                                                                                                                                                                          blue tiger barb, an angle fish, an oto cat & a pelco.


                                                                                                                                                                          I have the 10gal & 2 5-gal tanks I can mix the fish up
                                                                                                                                                                          into.. just wondering if anyone would work to put one
                                                                                                                                                                          of the males into.. I'm thinking of maybe getting
                                                                                                                                                                          some guppies (they're cute) & maybe putting one of the
                                                                                                                                                                          males in (it looked good at wal-mart)...



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                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 11250 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Betta & others (tank mate??)
                                                                                                                                                                          I've read that male bettas will harrass the fancy long-tailed guppies because they look too much bettas. I had a male betta, pond guppies and rosy reds in my first aquarium. I never witnessed him bothering the guppies, then again the pond guppies have short tails and aren't as colorful as the fancy guppies, so it would be harder for him to mistake those guppies as another betta. I did have another male betta harrass a bubble-eye goldfish and the goldfish ended up dying :(
                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                          Emily

                                                                                                                                                                          J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                          I was at wal-mart yesterday, looking for a plant for
                                                                                                                                                                          my grandmother for mothers day... I of course stopped
                                                                                                                                                                          & checked out the fish...

                                                                                                                                                                          I glanced into their guppy tank & I noticed along with
                                                                                                                                                                          the guppies, there was a red male betta swimmin around
                                                                                                                                                                          in the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                          I was just wondering if you all here could provide
                                                                                                                                                                          some help on tank mates...

                                                                                                                                                                          I know I cant put my 2 male bettas together, but I was
                                                                                                                                                                          wonderin if I could put one in with my communal
                                                                                                                                                                          tank... Right now they're in a 5 gal tank, but as
                                                                                                                                                                          soon as I find some room to set up the 10gal I'll
                                                                                                                                                                          transfer them over to the bigger tank. In the tank is
                                                                                                                                                                          2 glow tetras (the orange neon type looking fish), a
                                                                                                                                                                          blue tiger barb, an angle fish, an oto cat & a pelco.


                                                                                                                                                                          I have the 10gal & 2 5-gal tanks I can mix the fish up
                                                                                                                                                                          into.. just wondering if anyone would work to put one
                                                                                                                                                                          of the males into.. I'm thinking of maybe getting
                                                                                                                                                                          some guppies (they're cute) & maybe putting one of the
                                                                                                                                                                          males in (it looked good at wal-mart)...



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                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 11251 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Fw: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 757
                                                                                                                                                                          There are viruses that cause messages to be sent in someone else's name and email, but without that person having any knowledge of the problem.  Those messages don't spread the virus, or contain attachments, but they do try to clog mailing lists.
                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                          Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                          Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                          Since there haven't been any attachments or anything else added to the original messages that were being forwarded, there really isn't any reason why they wouldn't be safe to open. However, the behavior does still seem strange. Either someone did it on accident, or someone's just having some fun (according to their own definition of the word).

                                                                                                                                                                          - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                          Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 11252 From: kb1dva Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: healing pacu

                                                                                                                                                                          It could be my imagination, and wishful thinking but he looks like he’s healing. I would like to get some more fish but how long do you wait after an upheaval like the tank transfer. It probably sounds silly but I would like to get some colorful fish that the pacu won’t eat, or harass The pike used to hide all the time and now he’s out and about, was he hiding because of crowed conditions?, I still think the pike was harassing the pacu, can that be?     Emily  Y

                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 11253 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Fw: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 757
                                                                                                                                                                          That may be the case (although I've yet to see a virus that sends
                                                                                                                                                                          e-mails without attempting to propagate itself), but if it were, it
                                                                                                                                                                          seems like we'd be seeing more than just the 2 messages. Also, since the
                                                                                                                                                                          list only accepts mail from subscribers, this is not the case of a
                                                                                                                                                                          random name being used.

                                                                                                                                                                          And, looking through the archives, it appears that this person has
                                                                                                                                                                          accidentally posted things before.

                                                                                                                                                                          - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                          Patrick, American Fish Guy wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                          > There are viruses that cause messages to be sent in someone else's
                                                                                                                                                                          > name and email, but without that person having any knowledge of the
                                                                                                                                                                          > problem. Those messages don't spread the virus, or contain
                                                                                                                                                                          > attachments, but they do try to clog mailing lists.
                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                          > *Patrick, an American Fish Guy.*
                                                                                                                                                                          > **
                                                                                                                                                                          > Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                          > /-------Original Message-------/
                                                                                                                                                                          > Since there haven't been any attachments or anything else added to the
                                                                                                                                                                          > original messages that were being forwarded, there really isn't any
                                                                                                                                                                          > reason why they wouldn't be safe to open. However, the behavior does
                                                                                                                                                                          > still seem strange. Either someone did it on accident, or someone's
                                                                                                                                                                          > just having some fun (according to their own definition of the word).
                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                          > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 11254 From: kb1dva Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: More fish
                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                            I think I have room for a few more don't you.

                                                                                                                                                                            DSC00392


                                                                                                                                                                            Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent
                                                                                                                                                                            sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail
                                                                                                                                                                            security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 11255 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: More fish
                                                                                                                                                                            What other fish do you have in mind? The ones in that picture all tend
                                                                                                                                                                            to get pretty big (relatively speaking - some will get much bigger than
                                                                                                                                                                            others).

                                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                            kb1dva wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > I think I have room for a few more don't you.
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > DSC00392
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 11256 From: Rich and Karen Lang Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Chicagoland Tropical Fish Swap May 15, 2005
                                                                                                                                                                            Chicago - Aquarium Fish Swap Meet! All Species Sale.
                                                                                                                                                                            Greenwater Aquarist Society of Chicagoland's Spring
                                                                                                                                                                            Swap Meet
                                                                                                                                                                            11:00am - 3:00pm
                                                                                                                                                                            Rhine Post - 5858 S. Archer Ave
                                                                                                                                                                            Cost of a table (to sell)- $20.00
                                                                                                                                                                            Admission - $3.00 per person, $5.00 for a family

                                                                                                                                                                            Near Archer and Central
                                                                                                                                                                            "Across the street from Dominick's"


                                                                                                                                                                            visit the website:
                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.gwasoc.crosswinds.net/

                                                                                                                                                                            tip: bring a med. cooler or 5 gallon bucket!

                                                                                                                                                                            Kay
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 11257 From: Rachel Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: greenish water
                                                                                                                                                                            my 5 gal tank has greenish water... quite possibly from the dying
                                                                                                                                                                            plants that just happened to be in there. i been running amuck with
                                                                                                                                                                            finals and stuff so i just waited till i had time to take care of it
                                                                                                                                                                            and now the waters greenish. it was also way below the line for the
                                                                                                                                                                            filter. so i took off the dead leaves and filled the tank to the right
                                                                                                                                                                            level with new water, like almost a gallon of it. is there anything
                                                                                                                                                                            else ican do to make it clear again?

                                                                                                                                                                            la de da. i dont have enough money for food for me on campus
                                                                                                                                                                            (overpriced) and my cars in the shop and im hungry an i have another
                                                                                                                                                                            final in 3 hours. oh what a life.
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 11258 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: greenish water
                                                                                                                                                                            It's probably algae. What kind of filter do you have?

                                                                                                                                                                            - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                            Rachel wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                            > my 5 gal tank has greenish water... quite possibly from the dying
                                                                                                                                                                            > plants that just happened to be in there. i been running amuck with
                                                                                                                                                                            > finals and stuff so i just waited till i had time to take care of it
                                                                                                                                                                            > and now the waters greenish. it was also way below the line for the
                                                                                                                                                                            > filter. so i took off the dead leaves and filled the tank to the right
                                                                                                                                                                            > level with new water, like almost a gallon of it. is there anything
                                                                                                                                                                            > else ican do to make it clear again?
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > la de da. i dont have enough money for food for me on campus
                                                                                                                                                                            > (overpriced) and my cars in the shop and im hungry an i have another
                                                                                                                                                                            > final in 3 hours. oh what a life.
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 11259 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Betta & others (tank mate??)
                                                                                                                                                                            angels can get big. you might be at your limit w/ all those in 1 tank. but perhaps someone with
                                                                                                                                                                            more knowledge about tank stocking could answer more accurately than i can. but a betta would
                                                                                                                                                                            definitely like a 10! the more space the better with most fish =)

                                                                                                                                                                            --- J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                            > I was at wal-mart yesterday, looking for a plant for
                                                                                                                                                                            > my grandmother for mothers day... I of course stopped
                                                                                                                                                                            > & checked out the fish...
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > I glanced into their guppy tank & I noticed along with
                                                                                                                                                                            > the guppies, there was a red male betta swimmin around
                                                                                                                                                                            > in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > I was just wondering if you all here could provide
                                                                                                                                                                            > some help on tank mates...
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > I know I cant put my 2 male bettas together, but I was
                                                                                                                                                                            > wonderin if I could put one in with my communal
                                                                                                                                                                            > tank... Right now they're in a 5 gal tank, but as
                                                                                                                                                                            > soon as I find some room to set up the 10gal I'll
                                                                                                                                                                            > transfer them over to the bigger tank. In the tank is
                                                                                                                                                                            > 2 glow tetras (the orange neon type looking fish), a
                                                                                                                                                                            > blue tiger barb, an angle fish, an oto cat & a pelco.
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > I have the 10gal & 2 5-gal tanks I can mix the fish up
                                                                                                                                                                            > into.. just wondering if anyone would work to put one
                                                                                                                                                                            > of the males into.. I'm thinking of maybe getting
                                                                                                                                                                            > some guppies (they're cute) & maybe putting one of the
                                                                                                                                                                            > males in (it looked good at wal-mart)...
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > Discover Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                                            > Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out!
                                                                                                                                                                            > http://discover.yahoo.com/
                                                                                                                                                                            >


                                                                                                                                                                            I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 11260 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: algae eaters -> taxonomy is/is not a joke
                                                                                                                                                                            lmao - you are so funny pat! and so right. i love my fish and maintaining my tanks, but don't
                                                                                                                                                                            bother getting into the science (beyond the basics of cycles) of the industry. i didn't like
                                                                                                                                                                            science in high school & college and i don't like it now either so why bother adding something
                                                                                                                                                                            complicated to a life already complicated by things like a job, relationships, finances, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                            but for those who do research and are knowledgeable about all the science behind our industry,
                                                                                                                                                                            more power to you as long as you understand that perhaps the average aquarist doesn't have the
                                                                                                                                                                            same knowledge and probably doesn't care to and certainly would not appreciate being 'talked down
                                                                                                                                                                            to' by said knowledgeable people.

                                                                                                                                                                            --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:


                                                                                                                                                                            > What other purpose of aquariums is there? They are for fun. I only
                                                                                                                                                                            > take it seriously enough to keep the fish alive.
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!


                                                                                                                                                                            I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 11261 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: helfrich firefish
                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                              anyone have one of these? if so, do you recall how much you paid & where you got it? i want to get
                                                                                                                                                                              one for my sw tank but honestly cannot justify $180!!

                                                                                                                                                                              I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11262 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Introduction/african dwarf frogs
                                                                                                                                                                              hi michele, welcome to our humble fish group. i hope you enjoy yourself here.

                                                                                                                                                                              i have one question for you. how tall is your tank? i ask because from what i've read, african
                                                                                                                                                                              dwarf frogs usually need a fairly short tank so that they can get to the top for air. i can't
                                                                                                                                                                              remember what the height limit is but i think your 29 might be too tall for them to get to air
                                                                                                                                                                              often enough. but perhaps someone else could have a different opinion on this. paul? pat? anyone
                                                                                                                                                                              else have an idea on this?

                                                                                                                                                                              please don't think i'm trying to flame you or be negative, i just am a little concerned your cute
                                                                                                                                                                              little froggies might not be getting all the air they need.

                                                                                                                                                                              -valeen

                                                                                                                                                                              --- Michele Kerby <mkerby@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              > I've been lurking here a bit so I thought it was time to introduce
                                                                                                                                                                              > myself. My name is Michele Kerby. My parents had tropical fish when I
                                                                                                                                                                              > was young but I'm just starting out myself, so I consider myself very
                                                                                                                                                                              > much a newbie. My husband and I have a 29 gallon tank with two mickey
                                                                                                                                                                              > mouse platties, two black mollies, one pearl molly, two female guppies,
                                                                                                                                                                              > two pictus catfish (very small, will have to go to their own tank soon),
                                                                                                                                                                              > one pl*co, (also small), and two african dwarf frogs.
                                                                                                                                                                              > Thank you for letting me join this group. It's very informative and a
                                                                                                                                                                              > lot of fun.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Michele Kerby
                                                                                                                                                                              > mkerby@...
                                                                                                                                                                              >


                                                                                                                                                                              I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11263 From: arch1574 Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: taxonomy is not a joke
                                                                                                                                                                              It isn't a joke, it is just complicated. Why do people have to
                                                                                                                                                                              ridicule everything they do not understand? Are we in the dark ages?
                                                                                                                                                                              We may not be able to classify a new species, but we ought to at
                                                                                                                                                                              least be able to learn what we have in our own tanks, or what we want
                                                                                                                                                                              to buy.

                                                                                                                                                                              I know the scientific names for a lot of the plants in my yard, as
                                                                                                                                                                              well as my fish, and if I don't have it on the tip of my tongue then
                                                                                                                                                                              I have it in one of my books! Sometimes common names are not enough,
                                                                                                                                                                              and sometimes scientific names are not enough, unless you include
                                                                                                                                                                              the "variety", so I prefer to use both.

                                                                                                                                                                              "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet..." but if I want to
                                                                                                                                                                              grow roses for rose hips, I will want a specific species of the Rosa
                                                                                                                                                                              genus, R. rugosa; and I sure don't want a "Confederate Rose", which
                                                                                                                                                                              is not a rose at all.

                                                                                                                                                                              I learned about scientific classification in high school biology
                                                                                                                                                                              class, if not in general science in junior high. If we are going to
                                                                                                                                                                              learn, can't we learn right? I would rather include all the info, and
                                                                                                                                                                              those that don't care can just skim thru it.

                                                                                                                                                                              Audrey

                                                                                                                                                                              29 gal, 40 some Archocentrus nigrofasciatus (Convicts)

                                                                                                                                                                              10 gal planted tank, 50 or more Poecilia sp. "Endler's", and 3
                                                                                                                                                                              Tanichthys albonubes (Golden White Clouds), which are not anything
                                                                                                                                                                              like the original White Clouds and which I do not believe are really
                                                                                                                                                                              this genus at all no matter what the ad said (they look more like
                                                                                                                                                                              Chinese Barbs to me!)

                                                                                                                                                                              10 gal brackish tank, mated pair Poecilia sp. "Endler's" and a few
                                                                                                                                                                              fry, swordtail variety

                                                                                                                                                                              2.5 gal tank, 2 male Poecilia sp. "Endler's"
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11264 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: helfrich firefish
                                                                                                                                                                              You probably will like the price here ($300) even less:

                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.thepetstop.com/showprofile.cgi?index=5507&cat=livestock.fish.gobies&loc=&listpage=1

                                                                                                                                                                              The only price lower than $180 that I see is $170 at:

                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.petsolutions.com/Dartfish-C-40001600-C-.aspx

                                                                                                                                                                              Personally, I have a hard time even paying $30 for a fish. (I guess
                                                                                                                                                                              that's why my saltwater tank is only 40 gal. and just has a few fish in
                                                                                                                                                                              it. :D )

                                                                                                                                                                              I took my kids to a new store that opened over the weekend, and one of
                                                                                                                                                                              my daughters (age 8) told me she wanted a particular fish - I asked her
                                                                                                                                                                              if she had $130? That made her change her mind pretty quick.

                                                                                                                                                                              - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                              Valeen Gonzalez wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              > anyone have one of these? if so, do you recall how much you paid &
                                                                                                                                                                              > where you got it? i want to get
                                                                                                                                                                              > one for my sw tank but honestly cannot justify $180!!
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11265 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: helfrich firefish
                                                                                                                                                                              $300?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? hell no!!!! not even if i were rich. well, maybe if i were rich =)

                                                                                                                                                                              i don't like spending $30 for a fish either. the cheaper the better! my clowns were 4 for $8 at a
                                                                                                                                                                              fish store in the city. 2 of them went to a friend and we kept 2. they have mandarin gobies for $9
                                                                                                                                                                              there, too. that's the kind of $ i like spending on fish.

                                                                                                                                                                              lol, i bet your daughter changed her mind after calculating how many weeks of allowance $130
                                                                                                                                                                              would cost her!

                                                                                                                                                                              --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              > You probably will like the price here ($300) even less:
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > http://www.thepetstop.com/showprofile.cgi?index=5507&cat=livestock.fish.gobies&loc=&listpage=1
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > The only price lower than $180 that I see is $170 at:
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > http://www.petsolutions.com/Dartfish-C-40001600-C-.aspx
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Personally, I have a hard time even paying $30 for a fish. (I guess
                                                                                                                                                                              > that's why my saltwater tank is only 40 gal. and just has a few fish in
                                                                                                                                                                              > it. :D )
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I took my kids to a new store that opened over the weekend, and one of
                                                                                                                                                                              > my daughters (age 8) told me she wanted a particular fish - I asked her
                                                                                                                                                                              > if she had $130? That made her change her mind pretty quick.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Valeen Gonzalez wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > anyone have one of these? if so, do you recall how much you paid &
                                                                                                                                                                              > > where you got it? i want to get
                                                                                                                                                                              > > one for my sw tank but honestly cannot justify $180!!
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              >


                                                                                                                                                                              I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11266 From: Nan Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                                                                              So which is it?  I am building the DIY CO2, and I have a bubbler in my tank, so should I do it in a different tank that has no bubbler or use the one with the bubbler?  Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              nan
                                                                                                                                                                              Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              Bruce,

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              You are correct in a way that surface agitation does get rid of excess CO2 from the water. But it still has to settle an equilibrium with the CO2 concentration in the air? It cannot rid the water if 100% CO2 and if a water has zero CO2, surface agitation will add some CO2 to the water to make this equilibrium. I don�t really know what the equation for the equilibrium is, but it does work.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bruce Hansen
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: 08 May 2005 04:36
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              My understanding has always been that agitation of the surface caused CO2 to be lost from solution and increased oxygen solution, although of course the 2 processes are essentially independent.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Cheers

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Bruce (Hansen)

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              ANGFA (Qld) Inc - http://www.angfaqld.org.au/

                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 9:33 AM

                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Bit confusion here I think.

                                                                                                                                                                              Dissolved CO2 in the water is governed partially by PH or vice versa but that is when the equilibrium between the atmosphere and water is not maintained. When we talk about calculating how much CO2 is in the water, this CO2 we are talking about is the one that is in transition between CO2+H2O and the carbonic acid. The pure Co2 dissolving capacity of water is not really 100% governed by PH I think. Temperature however can have a major governing factor on this.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              I am not a chemist either so I am also looking forward to everyone�s views on this J

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                                                              From: Fish Bloke [mailto:fishbloke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: 09 April 2005 06:08
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Fair enough.  I am here to learn, can you expand.  Was everything I said wrong, or just that bit.  :^)

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Phil.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                              From: Liz Wilhite

                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 1:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              On Apr 8, 2005 7:22 PM, Fish Bloke <fishbloke@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              I am no chemist, but I think the idea of pH having a bearing on how much CO2 water can hold is wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              I am a Ph.D. chemist.  You are dead wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Liz

                                                                                                                                                                               



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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11267 From: Nan Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                              I would be interested in that disk, if it would convert to Corel WP?  Anyway, I  apologize for being......snotty?*chuckle*  I have made myself a new rule of not answering email late at night anymore..*LOL*  None the less, others might not have been aware of it, so if nothing else I have participated in educating someone out there..*LOL*  
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              I was wondering...........what started the whole thing about scientific names, etc???*LOL*
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Nan

                                                                                                                                                                              Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              Nan,

                                                                                                                                                                              I am well aware of the different betta species. I participated in the first
                                                                                                                                                                              publication on the "wild" betta species. Since that was written back in the
                                                                                                                                                                              late 70's, there have been many more betta species found and described. I
                                                                                                                                                                              did think about that in writing my post, but decided to forego that as
                                                                                                                                                                              adding more complexity to the arguments and the fact that a lot of people
                                                                                                                                                                              here now the varieties of _Betta splendens_ but not the actual progenitor of
                                                                                                                                                                              the varieties.

                                                                                                                                                                              BTW, I still have the original text of the wild betta species manuscript on
                                                                                                                                                                              disk around here somewhere--in WordStar format.

                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 2:16 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters


                                                                                                                                                                              All that is fine and dandy, Steve, however, you did make a mistake with the
                                                                                                                                                                              bettas.  There are several different types of Bettas in the Betta Species,
                                                                                                                                                                              and B. Splendas came from wild b. splendas, the variation of color comes
                                                                                                                                                                              from that.   But if you look around the web (and if it wasn't after 2 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                              as I write this I would site them myself) there are several classifications
                                                                                                                                                                              for different types or species of the bettas.  Just letting you
                                                                                                                                                                              know............oh, and btw. they each have their own scientific name as
                                                                                                                                                                              well.

                                                                                                                                                                              Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                    First of all, taxonomy is not a joke. It is a way of classifying
                                                                                                                                                                              every
                                                                                                                                                                                    living thing on this planet (at least on this planet for now).
                                                                                                                                                                              Secondly, the
                                                                                                                                                                                    names are NOT Latin. They are a mix of Latin, Greek, and many other
                                                                                                                                                                                    languages. They are known as scientific names, and they follow
                                                                                                                                                                              fairly strict
                                                                                                                                                                                    rules when naming an organism. Thirdly, unlike common names, say,
                                                                                                                                                                              neon
                                                                                                                                                                                    tetra, for example, which may actually refer to several distinct
                                                                                                                                                                              fish, there
                                                                                                                                                                                    is a mechanism for tracking name changes called synonyms.
                                                                                                                                                                              _Paracheirodon
                                                                                                                                                                                    innesi_ is the "real" neon tetra, named after William T. Innes, BTW,
                                                                                                                                                                              was
                                                                                                                                                                                    formerly known as _Hyphessobrycon innesi_. The change of the
                                                                                                                                                                              scientific name
                                                                                                                                                                                    was made when further studies showed that the fish differed from
                                                                                                                                                                              those other
                                                                                                                                                                                    fish in the _Hyphessobrycon_ genus to rate a genus of their own. All
                                                                                                                                                                              nice
                                                                                                                                                                                    and neat, the whole thing is.
                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                    Oh, what are the other fish that have been commonly known as neon
                                                                                                                                                                              tetras?
                                                                                                                                                                                    _Paracheirodon axelrodi_ is one, mostly known as the cardinal tetra
                                                                                                                                                                              (and
                                                                                                                                                                                    named after Herbert Axelrod, and _Paracheirodon simulans_, which is
                                                                                                                                                                              also
                                                                                                                                                                                    known as the green neon tetra because it lacks any red coloration.
                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                    The betta you refer to is a whole other story. The ones people think
                                                                                                                                                                              of are
                                                                                                                                                                                    the long finned variety with a great number of colors to chose from.
                                                                                                                                                                              These
                                                                                                                                                                                    are descended from a "wild" stock of fish that are multi-colored,
                                                                                                                                                                              and have
                                                                                                                                                                                    short fins and rounded tails and, yes, you can actually get those
                                                                                                                                                                              fish also.
                                                                                                                                                                                    They have as much right to be called bettas as the fancy varieties
                                                                                                                                                                              do also.
                                                                                                                                                                                    Are they the same fish? They sure are, but that steel blue betta you
                                                                                                                                                                              bought
                                                                                                                                                                                    in a bowl at the fish place has been bred from that wild stock to
                                                                                                                                                                              look as
                                                                                                                                                                                    they do. However, to the scientist they are the same fish, probably
                                                                                                                                                                              not even
                                                                                                                                                                                    worth a sub species designation.
                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                    If you are serious about this hobby, you will learn about scientific
                                                                                                                                                                              names.
                                                                                                                                                                                    Some fish are only known by scientific names in the hobby--there is
                                                                                                                                                                              no
                                                                                                                                                                                    common name for them.
                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                    \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                    ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                    Behalf Of Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 1:52 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                        Taxonomy is a joke, in my opinion.  If common names are removed
                                                                                                                                                                              and all
                                                                                                                                                                                    fish are labeled by latin names, the entire aquarium industry will
                                                                                                                                                                              quickly
                                                                                                                                                                                    die as people are turned off by the fact that they don't know what
                                                                                                                                                                              they are
                                                                                                                                                                                    buying.  NOBODY SPEAKS LATIN BUT OLD RICH GUYS (doctors, biologists,
                                                                                                                                                                              and
                                                                                                                                                                                    priests)!  Who wants to buy a b. splendens?  People want bettas.
                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                    :)
                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                    L numbers have been around since 1988. They were introduced in
                                                                                                                                                                              anticipation
                                                                                                                                                                                    of a large number of undescribed species of Loricarid catfish that
                                                                                                                                                                              were
                                                                                                                                                                                    being discovered. The introduction of L numbers was to avoid giving
                                                                                                                                                                              "trade
                                                                                                                                                                                    (common) names" to the species, a very variable and subjective way
                                                                                                                                                                              of naming
                                                                                                                                                                                    fish. A species can have 3, 4, 5 or more common names. I've seen the
                                                                                                                                                                              same
                                                                                                                                                                                    fish with a new common name on a subsequent shipment from the
                                                                                                                                                                              wholesaler to
                                                                                                                                                                                    a shop.     
                                                                                                                                                                                   



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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11268 From: Nan Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                              Thank you, Steve.  I live near Berry College in Georgia, so I should be able to check there.  And keep useing Google, of course.  I appreciate the help!
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Nan

                                                                                                                                                                              Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              Nan,

                                                                                                                                                                              I used to use the Yale and Harvard libraries quite a bit for that kind of
                                                                                                                                                                              stuff (time wise they were equidistant from where I was living). Now, I live
                                                                                                                                                                              way too far away for those libraries. I use mainly online sources now. When
                                                                                                                                                                              you do a Google search, you may find good sources if the domain ends in edu.
                                                                                                                                                                              There are also a good number of science publications on the net, some which
                                                                                                                                                                              require subscriptions for access and others that don't. One of my clients
                                                                                                                                                                              publishes a magazine known as _Science News_, so if I find a reference that
                                                                                                                                                                              requires a subscription, I can usually find the publication in their library
                                                                                                                                                                              and read it on my own time. They are nice enough to allow me access. I've
                                                                                                                                                                              not yet had the time or the need to check out other resources in this area
                                                                                                                                                                              such as the Smithsonian, though I have made the effort to get to know some
                                                                                                                                                                              of the people who work there. Not only do they have publications, but they
                                                                                                                                                                              have preserved specimens.

                                                                                                                                                                              I don't know where you live, but there may be a university near you that you
                                                                                                                                                                              can get access to their libraries, though it has gotten tougher to do over
                                                                                                                                                                              the last several years without having some sort of relationship with the
                                                                                                                                                                              university.


                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//



                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 2:18 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pacu 911


                                                                                                                                                                              Thank you Patrick.  I will keep that in mind...*S*  And later when I can
                                                                                                                                                                              keep my eyes open and not fall asleep at the keyboard (late at night!), I
                                                                                                                                                                              would like to know where I can find some of those research articles and peer
                                                                                                                                                                              reviewed articles.*grin*
                                                                                                                                                                              Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              "Patrick, American Fish Guy" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                          It happens to me too.  I plan to cite a source only to find
                                                                                                                                                                              out it says I'm wrong.  That is when I quit posting on the subject. :)  Just
                                                                                                                                                                              joking.  Actually, the first source I found said omnivore that likes feeder
                                                                                                                                                                              fish.  I almost thought I had gotten it way off, and then I found that
                                                                                                                                                                              research article.  Rule number one of research: Research articles are more
                                                                                                                                                                              trustworthy than web sites, and peer reviewed articles are even better. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                    Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more
                                                                                                                                                                              money!
                                                                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                    I'll Be.........After reading your post, Patrick, I was quick to
                                                                                                                                                                              jump on the "Says WHO?" band wagon, but ya know, your right they are
                                                                                                                                                                              suppossed to be herbivores, I have been mislead!  I decided to site my own
                                                                                                                                                                              sources as to what the Pacu eats, to prove you wrong, Patrick, but alllll
                                                                                                                                                                              over the place I am seeing that they prefer hard nut like vegetation in the
                                                                                                                                                                              wild and that they will eat anything they can.  I was right about them being
                                                                                                                                                                              related to the Pirannah family though!*LOL*  Forgive my ignorance.  I just
                                                                                                                                                                              know what I had learned from before. My bad!  Let me list a few sources for
                                                                                                                                                                              those who don't believe me (and I guess Patrick, too...*LOL*)!
                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/wild/pacu.htm
                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/pacu-red.htm
                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.postring.net/pacu/
                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                    Nan



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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11269 From: Nan Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                              Corydoras eat veggies, fresh veggies?
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Nan

                                                                                                                                                                              Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              Agreed, Pacu's will take a bite out of anything (of a vegetative
                                                                                                                                                                              nature), such as a piece of fruit that has fallen into the water. 
                                                                                                                                                                              Same as a goldfish would, or as a number of members on this forum are
                                                                                                                                                                              starting to feed their fish zucinni and/or cucumber.  This is not to
                                                                                                                                                                              say that Cory catfish will take a bite out of another fish.  Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                              are not inclined to tear a larger fish up, nor are they equipped to
                                                                                                                                                                              do so.  Larger fish are not in their diet.  Ray                     
                                                                                                                                                                              \                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > except that a pacu will take bites out of anything in
                                                                                                                                                                              > its midst, unlike an oscar who will only generally eat
                                                                                                                                                                              > what fits in its mouth.
                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Nan,  In the scientific community, Pacu's are
                                                                                                                                                                              > > categorized as
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Herbivores; their diet consisting mainly of plant
                                                                                                                                                                              > > material.  While
                                                                                                                                                                              > > they are in the same family as Piranhas, that family
                                                                                                                                                                              > > also includes
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Silver Dollars (Piranha-like herbivores) as well as
                                                                                                                                                                              > > the Neon,
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Cardinal and all other community tank Tetras.  They
                                                                                                                                                                              > > are also related
                                                                                                                                                                              > > to freshwater Trout and Salmon, and yes, the feared
                                                                                                                                                                              > > African Tiger
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Fish (Hydrocynus) of which there are about six
                                                                                                                                                                              > > species in the genus,
                                                                                                                                                                              > > one getting to 12 feet and known to pull African
                                                                                                                                                                              > > fisherman into the
                                                                                                                                                                              > > river -- by the legs, not by the line!  Like most
                                                                                                                                                                              > > other fish, Pacu's
                                                                                                                                                                              > > are opportunists and if a fish will fit in its mouth
                                                                                                                                                                              > > it will eat it. 
                                                                                                                                                                              > > In that respect you could say its an Omnivore, but
                                                                                                                                                                              > > again, most any
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Herbivore will take in a fish if its small enough to
                                                                                                                                                                              > > fit in its
                                                                                                                                                                              > > mouth.  Ray                                        
                                                                                                                                                                              > >                
                                                                                                                                                                              > > \                                                  
                                                                                                                                                                              > >                 
                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              > > <ntalb00@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Pacu's Herbivores?????  That is a new one to me,
                                                                                                                                                                              > > since they are in
                                                                                                                                                                              > > the same family, I believe and I could be wrong, as
                                                                                                                                                                              > > priannah
                                                                                                                                                                              > > (spelling sucks tonight, sorry!).  In fact, they are
                                                                                                                                                                              > > very much a
                                                                                                                                                                              > > carnivore.  Many breeders I know keep them or Oscars
                                                                                                                                                                              > > for when they
                                                                                                                                                                              > > cull their fry, and use the fry as food for them.
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > 
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > This was back before I knew better. :) When I
                                                                                                                                                                              > > bought the pacu, it
                                                                                                                                                                              > > was
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > the same size as the tiger barbs I had. When it
                                                                                                                                                                              > > quickly outgrew the
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > other fish, I didn't think it would eat them -
                                                                                                                                                                              > > pacus are supposed
                                                                                                                                                                              > > to be
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > herbivores, after all.
                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > why was a tiger barbs with a large pacu?
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > When I said that mine outgrew the 150 gal.
                                                                                                                                                                              > > tank he
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > was in, it was
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > because he had gotten big enough that he was
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > starting to hurt himself in
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > the tank (as well as the other fish - I
                                                                                                                                                                              > > actually
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > watched him eat a
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > full-grown tiger barb).
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > kb1dva wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > Here's a photo that might help.he seems to
                                                                                                                                                                              > > be
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > moving up in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > He was
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > in a 20 long, so this must seem like the
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Hilton.
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Maybe that was why the
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > whole thing was given away.i thought they
                                                                                                                                                                              > > would
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > stop growing when the
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > didn't
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > have enough room. Plants are good hiding
                                                                                                                                                                              > > places
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > the pike pacu love his
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > rock
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > with the hole in it.but back to what can I
                                                                                                                                                                              > > do for
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > him    Emily
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                                                                                              > > when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                              > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                              > > that is not
                                                                                                                                                                              > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of
                                                                                                                                                                              > > the original
                                                                                                                                                                              > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject
                                                                                                                                                                              > > (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                              > > subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help
                                                                                                                                                                              > > in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11270 From: Nan Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Mystery snails eggs have hatched
                                                                                                                                                                              *LOL*  I know, but I use a nut chopper (you can get those at Wal-Mart as well).  And then I use the bottm of a glass to pulverize it more in a bowl before adding it. 
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Nan

                                                                                                                                                                              mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              Yeah I plan on putting them in my tank once there big enough to not
                                                                                                                                                                              get lost in the rocks. I could get a 10 gallon for $10.00 at the store
                                                                                                                                                                              but that doesn't have a lid. They are doing great and growing fast.
                                                                                                                                                                              3rd clutch hatched last night. Still need to get the liquid calcium
                                                                                                                                                                              (don't have a car and haven't found a ride there yet) so I've been
                                                                                                                                                                              putting in the crushed egg shells. (It's hard work crushing those
                                                                                                                                                                              stupid shells.)


                                                                                                                                                                              > I am so glad that this is working out for you.  I would suggest when
                                                                                                                                                                              you do move them to an aquarium, use a bare bottom tank (no gravel),
                                                                                                                                                                              it will be so much easier to clean.

                                                                                                                                                                              > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > mommy2acdhsurvivor <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > Once the clutches look moldy I moved them into a plastic shoe box
                                                                                                                                                                              > thingy for a temp home until they get a little bigger. And tonight
                                                                                                                                                                              > another one hatched about 30 it was a small clutch.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > lucky you.. I never get to see my baby snails they just fall back in
                                                                                                                                                                              > my 
                                                                                                                                                                              > > tank.. I have seen I think 2 lol but I wonder how they survive the
                                                                                                                                                                              > water changes 
                                                                                                                                                                              > > lol Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                              > > just to let you guys know my clutches arrived  and one has hatched
                                                                                                                                                                              > > out about 50 babies. They are so cute and keep changing  colors. I
                                                                                                                                                                              love
                                                                                                                                                                              > > them.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11271 From: Nan Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                              I believe you can add live plants for one, and the other would be to keep doing water changes. However, I am sure someone more qualified will have an answer for you.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              ~nan~

                                                                                                                                                                              Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                                              A couple of weeks ago I set up a new 55 gal tank with an undergravel filter plus a side filter (the waterfall kind). I added some water from my established goldfish aquarium and a bit of the gravel as well. I added some live plants, 4 rosy red minnows to get it cycling and some small snails.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              However, since it's going to be a goldfish tank, I decided about a week ago to add 2 medium comets and one tiny goldfish (the size of a minnow) because I thought that might speed up the cycle since the comets produce more waste than the rosy red minnows. I realized now that I might have added too many fish too soon. I have one large black moor and a medium bluescale oranda that I intend to add after it's cycled.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              I've been checking the water chemistry and the ammonia levels are down, but nitrites are up to 3ppm (stress zone). I did a 20% water change and then a 10% water change with a gravel vacuum and added stress zyme. I'm wondering what I else I can do to get along with the cycle and drive down the nitrites. Nitrates are only at 30 ppm so far. pH is 6.4, alkalinity is 0 and the water is hard. I've been adding salt at a rate of 0.5 tsp/gal because I read that it helps detoxify nitrites. I had a bag of zeolite in the tank for a while but removed it because I was adding salt. I have 2 zeolite and 2 carbon cartridges in the under gravel filter and a regular carbon cartridge in the side filter.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks a lot for your help,
                                                                                                                                                                              Emily


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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11272 From: Nan Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Betta & others (tank mate??)
                                                                                                                                                                              Absolutely not in with a Barb!  Barbs, as well as Angel fish are fin nippers. He will be torn to shreds in no time flat.  Sorry!

                                                                                                                                                                              J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              I was at wal-mart yesterday, looking for a plant for
                                                                                                                                                                              my grandmother for mothers day...  I of course stopped
                                                                                                                                                                              & checked out the fish... 

                                                                                                                                                                              I glanced into their guppy tank & I noticed along with
                                                                                                                                                                              the guppies, there was a red male betta swimmin around
                                                                                                                                                                              in the tank. 

                                                                                                                                                                              I was just wondering if you all here could provide
                                                                                                                                                                              some help on tank mates...

                                                                                                                                                                              I know I cant put my 2 male bettas together, but I was
                                                                                                                                                                              wonderin if I could put one in with my communal
                                                                                                                                                                              tank...  Right now they're in a 5 gal tank, but as
                                                                                                                                                                              soon as I find some room to set up the 10gal I'll
                                                                                                                                                                              transfer them over to the bigger tank.  In the tank is
                                                                                                                                                                              2 glow tetras (the orange neon type looking fish), a
                                                                                                                                                                              blue tiger barb, an angle fish, an oto cat & a pelco.


                                                                                                                                                                              I have the 10gal & 2 5-gal tanks I can mix the fish up
                                                                                                                                                                              into..  just wondering if anyone would work to put one
                                                                                                                                                                              of the males into..  I'm thinking of maybe getting
                                                                                                                                                                              some guppies (they're cute) & maybe putting one of the
                                                                                                                                                                              males in (it looked good at wal-mart)... 


                                                                                                                                                                                         
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                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                              .
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                                                                                                                                                                              ~nan and crew~
                                                                                                                                                                              Rome, GA
                                                                                                                                                                              bettas and soon we add guppys!


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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11273 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                              Trevor,

                                                                                                                                                                              If she is using a UGF in the other tank, it will be more heavily populated
                                                                                                                                                                              with the bacteria she needs than gravel that does not have a water flow
                                                                                                                                                                              through it. It the latter case, most of the bacteria will be at the surface
                                                                                                                                                                              of the gravel, where they can actual get the nutrients they need. If that is
                                                                                                                                                                              the case, taking a few handfuls of that gravel will not do her much good,
                                                                                                                                                                              since the cycle has already started. It will not add that many more bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                              to help populate the new tank. Will it help? Sure, but it just will not
                                                                                                                                                                              give her the boost that she is looking for. On the other hand, a few
                                                                                                                                                                              handfuls of gravel from a tank with a working UGF will give her an immediate
                                                                                                                                                                              boost, and get the populations growing at a much faster rate, simply based
                                                                                                                                                                              on numbers.

                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 11:37 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank

                                                                                                                                                                              Why should it matter whether she's using a UGF in both tanks? The
                                                                                                                                                                              gravel from the established tank should have bacteria in it no matter
                                                                                                                                                                              what kind of filter she's using (or even if she weren't using a filter).

                                                                                                                                                                              - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                              > type of filtration in your other tank--the UGF--you can take some of the
                                                                                                                                                                              > substrate from that tank and place it in the new tank to add to your
                                                                                                                                                                              > bacterial colonies.
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11274 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                              Emily,

                                                                                                                                                                              A deeper bed will give you more biological activity. I've seen as much as 5"
                                                                                                                                                                              of gravel in a tank with a UGF, though I've never gone that deep myself.
                                                                                                                                                                              Gold fish are "dirty" fish in that they excrete a lot of ammonia. The more
                                                                                                                                                                              gravel bed you have, the more bacteria can colonize it and take care of the
                                                                                                                                                                              load from the goldfish.

                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 12:19 PM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank


                                                                                                                                                                              I did add some gravel already, but I think I could bring in some more. Is a
                                                                                                                                                                              few inches of gravel too much for a UGF?? I wanted a deeper substrate in the
                                                                                                                                                                              new planted tank because the goldfish like to dig up plants.

                                                                                                                                                                              Emily

                                                                                                                                                                              Trevor <trevor@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              Why should it matter whether she's using a UGF in both tanks? The
                                                                                                                                                                              gravel from the established tank should have bacteria in it no
                                                                                                                                                                              matter
                                                                                                                                                                              what kind of filter she's using (or even if she weren't using a
                                                                                                                                                                              filter).

                                                                                                                                                                              - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                              > type of filtration in your other tank--the UGF--you can take some
                                                                                                                                                                              of the
                                                                                                                                                                              > substrate from that tank and place it in the new tank to add to
                                                                                                                                                                              your
                                                                                                                                                                              > bacterial colonies.
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11275 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                              Emily,

                                                                                                                                                                              That is a good idea, if you have one ready to go from another tank. I did
                                                                                                                                                                              think about mentioning that last night as another way to help, but didn't.
                                                                                                                                                                              My bad.

                                                                                                                                                                              A sponge filter is often kept going in a populated tank to be moved to
                                                                                                                                                                              another tank that may be used for breeding quarters or as a quarantine tank
                                                                                                                                                                              for ill fish. This way the tank does not have to completely cycle, thereby
                                                                                                                                                                              adding stress to the fish--the cycle is ready to go.

                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 1:51 PM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank


                                                                                                                                                                              great, I could try speeding up the cycle by adding the filter sponge from my
                                                                                                                                                                              other tank too.
                                                                                                                                                                              Emily

                                                                                                                                                                              Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              A few inches is actually good, since the gravel is actually your
                                                                                                                                                                              filter
                                                                                                                                                                              media.

                                                                                                                                                                              - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                              Emily Tenczar wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              > I did add some gravel already, but I think I could bring in some
                                                                                                                                                                              more.
                                                                                                                                                                              > Is a few inches of gravel too much for a UGF?? I wanted a deeper
                                                                                                                                                                              > substrate in the new planted tank because the goldfish like to dig
                                                                                                                                                                              up
                                                                                                                                                                              > plants.
                                                                                                                                                                              > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > */Trevor /* wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Why should it matter whether she's using a UGF in both tanks? The
                                                                                                                                                                              > gravel from the established tank should have bacteria in it no
                                                                                                                                                                              matter
                                                                                                                                                                              > what kind of filter she's using (or even if she weren't using a
                                                                                                                                                                              > filter).
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > > If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                              > > type of filtration in your other tank--the UGF--you can take
                                                                                                                                                                              > some of the
                                                                                                                                                                              > > substrate from that tank and place it in the new tank to add to
                                                                                                                                                                              your
                                                                                                                                                                              > > bacterial colonies.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11276 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants and Light
                                                                                                                                                                              Angela,

                                                                                                                                                                              That is definitely not enough light for all but a very few plants. There is
                                                                                                                                                                              a pretty constant debate going in aquatic plant circles about how much light
                                                                                                                                                                              is needed, and how it should be measured. However, for our purposes, you
                                                                                                                                                                              need to look at 3-5 watts per gallon to have success with plants. I'd also
                                                                                                                                                                              suggest you look at a full spectrum type bulb also, so you can get the right
                                                                                                                                                                              type of light to the plants.

                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 7:12 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants and Light


                                                                                                                                                                              I have plants that start out really dark green and lose color over time. I
                                                                                                                                                                              have a 15 watt flourescent bulb in a 20 gallon tank. Is this enough light?
                                                                                                                                                                              Should I add anything for the plants?

                                                                                                                                                                              Angela
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11277 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                              Nan,

                                                                                                                                                                              I can't recall specifically--it was an off shoot of another thread. I'd have
                                                                                                                                                                              to go back through my messages to find it. However, it has made for an
                                                                                                                                                                              interesting discussion, and, despite what Patrick, (AAFG) thinks, it is a
                                                                                                                                                                              tried and true system.

                                                                                                                                                                              I'll answer the rest off list.

                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//



                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 9:11 PM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters


                                                                                                                                                                              I would be interested in that disk, if it would convert to Corel WP?
                                                                                                                                                                              Anyway, I apologize for being......snotty?*chuckle* I have made myself a
                                                                                                                                                                              new rule of not answering email late at night anymore..*LOL* None the less,
                                                                                                                                                                              others might not have been aware of it, so if nothing else I have
                                                                                                                                                                              participated in educating someone out there..*LOL*

                                                                                                                                                                              I was wondering...........what started the whole thing about scientific
                                                                                                                                                                              names, etc???*LOL*

                                                                                                                                                                              Nan

                                                                                                                                                                              Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              Nan,

                                                                                                                                                                              I am well aware of the different betta species. I participated in
                                                                                                                                                                              the first
                                                                                                                                                                              publication on the "wild" betta species. Since that was written back
                                                                                                                                                                              in the
                                                                                                                                                                              late 70's, there have been many more betta species found and
                                                                                                                                                                              described. I
                                                                                                                                                                              did think about that in writing my post, but decided to forego that
                                                                                                                                                                              as
                                                                                                                                                                              adding more complexity to the arguments and the fact that a lot of
                                                                                                                                                                              people
                                                                                                                                                                              here now the varieties of _Betta splendens_ but not the actual
                                                                                                                                                                              progenitor of
                                                                                                                                                                              the varieties.

                                                                                                                                                                              BTW, I still have the original text of the wild betta species
                                                                                                                                                                              manuscript on
                                                                                                                                                                              disk around here somewhere--in WordStar format.

                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 2:16 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters


                                                                                                                                                                              All that is fine and dandy, Steve, however, you did make a mistake
                                                                                                                                                                              with the
                                                                                                                                                                              bettas. There are several different types of Bettas in the Betta
                                                                                                                                                                              Species,
                                                                                                                                                                              and B. Splendas came from wild b. splendas, the variation of color
                                                                                                                                                                              comes
                                                                                                                                                                              from that. But if you look around the web (and if it wasn't after
                                                                                                                                                                              2 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                              as I write this I would site them myself) there are several
                                                                                                                                                                              classifications
                                                                                                                                                                              for different types or species of the bettas. Just letting you
                                                                                                                                                                              know............oh, and btw. they each have their own scientific
                                                                                                                                                                              name as
                                                                                                                                                                              well.

                                                                                                                                                                              Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              First of all, taxonomy is not a joke. It is a way of
                                                                                                                                                                              classifying
                                                                                                                                                                              every
                                                                                                                                                                              living thing on this planet (at least on this planet for now).
                                                                                                                                                                              Secondly, the
                                                                                                                                                                              names are NOT Latin. They are a mix of Latin, Greek, and many
                                                                                                                                                                              other
                                                                                                                                                                              languages. They are known as scientific names, and they follow
                                                                                                                                                                              fairly strict
                                                                                                                                                                              rules when naming an organism. Thirdly, unlike common names,
                                                                                                                                                                              say,
                                                                                                                                                                              neon
                                                                                                                                                                              tetra, for example, which may actually refer to several
                                                                                                                                                                              distinct
                                                                                                                                                                              fish, there
                                                                                                                                                                              is a mechanism for tracking name changes called synonyms.
                                                                                                                                                                              _Paracheirodon
                                                                                                                                                                              innesi_ is the "real" neon tetra, named after William T.
                                                                                                                                                                              Innes, BTW,
                                                                                                                                                                              was
                                                                                                                                                                              formerly known as _Hyphessobrycon innesi_. The change of the
                                                                                                                                                                              scientific name
                                                                                                                                                                              was made when further studies showed that the fish differed
                                                                                                                                                                              from
                                                                                                                                                                              those other
                                                                                                                                                                              fish in the _Hyphessobrycon_ genus to rate a genus of their
                                                                                                                                                                              own. All
                                                                                                                                                                              nice
                                                                                                                                                                              and neat, the whole thing is.

                                                                                                                                                                              Oh, what are the other fish that have been commonly known as
                                                                                                                                                                              neon
                                                                                                                                                                              tetras?
                                                                                                                                                                              _Paracheirodon axelrodi_ is one, mostly known as the cardinal
                                                                                                                                                                              tetra
                                                                                                                                                                              (and
                                                                                                                                                                              named after Herbert Axelrod, and _Paracheirodon simulans_,
                                                                                                                                                                              which is
                                                                                                                                                                              also
                                                                                                                                                                              known as the green neon tetra because it lacks any red
                                                                                                                                                                              coloration.

                                                                                                                                                                              The betta you refer to is a whole other story. The ones people
                                                                                                                                                                              think
                                                                                                                                                                              of are
                                                                                                                                                                              the long finned variety with a great number of colors to chose
                                                                                                                                                                              from.
                                                                                                                                                                              These
                                                                                                                                                                              are descended from a "wild" stock of fish that are
                                                                                                                                                                              multi-colored,
                                                                                                                                                                              and have
                                                                                                                                                                              short fins and rounded tails and, yes, you can actually get
                                                                                                                                                                              those
                                                                                                                                                                              fish also.
                                                                                                                                                                              They have as much right to be called bettas as the fancy
                                                                                                                                                                              varieties
                                                                                                                                                                              do also.
                                                                                                                                                                              Are they the same fish? They sure are, but that steel blue
                                                                                                                                                                              betta you
                                                                                                                                                                              bought
                                                                                                                                                                              in a bowl at the fish place has been bred from that wild stock
                                                                                                                                                                              to
                                                                                                                                                                              look as
                                                                                                                                                                              they do. However, to the scientist they are the same fish,
                                                                                                                                                                              probably
                                                                                                                                                                              not even
                                                                                                                                                                              worth a sub species designation.

                                                                                                                                                                              If you are serious about this hobby, you will learn about
                                                                                                                                                                              scientific
                                                                                                                                                                              names.
                                                                                                                                                                              Some fish are only known by scientific names in the
                                                                                                                                                                              hobby--there is
                                                                                                                                                                              no
                                                                                                                                                                              common name for them.

                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 1:52 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters


                                                                                                                                                                              Taxonomy is a joke, in my opinion. If common names are
                                                                                                                                                                              removed
                                                                                                                                                                              and all
                                                                                                                                                                              fish are labeled by latin names, the entire aquarium industry
                                                                                                                                                                              will
                                                                                                                                                                              quickly
                                                                                                                                                                              die as people are turned off by the fact that they don't know
                                                                                                                                                                              what
                                                                                                                                                                              they are
                                                                                                                                                                              buying. NOBODY SPEAKS LATIN BUT OLD RICH GUYS (doctors,
                                                                                                                                                                              biologists,
                                                                                                                                                                              and
                                                                                                                                                                              priests)! Who wants to buy a b. splendens? People want
                                                                                                                                                                              bettas.

                                                                                                                                                                              :)
                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                              L numbers have been around since 1988. They were introduced in
                                                                                                                                                                              anticipation
                                                                                                                                                                              of a large number of undescribed species of Loricarid catfish
                                                                                                                                                                              that
                                                                                                                                                                              were
                                                                                                                                                                              being discovered. The introduction of L numbers was to avoid
                                                                                                                                                                              giving
                                                                                                                                                                              "trade
                                                                                                                                                                              (common) names" to the species, a very variable and subjective
                                                                                                                                                                              way
                                                                                                                                                                              of naming
                                                                                                                                                                              fish. A species can have 3, 4, 5 or more common names. I've
                                                                                                                                                                              seen the
                                                                                                                                                                              same
                                                                                                                                                                              fish with a new common name on a subsequent shipment from the
                                                                                                                                                                              wholesaler to
                                                                                                                                                                              a shop.
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11278 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                              It would take me to have the time to do the work, which is why it is still
                                                                                                                                                                              sitting on 5.25" disks, and I don't see the time coming up real soon.

                                                                                                                                                                              You may be able to find a copy of it by haunting used book places that
                                                                                                                                                                              specialize in aquatic publications, but I suspect copies are few and far
                                                                                                                                                                              between.

                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 9:11 PM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters


                                                                                                                                                                              I would be interested in that disk, if it would convert to Corel WP?
                                                                                                                                                                              Anyway, I apologize for being......snotty?*chuckle* I have made myself a
                                                                                                                                                                              new rule of not answering email late at night anymore..*LOL* None the less,
                                                                                                                                                                              others might not have been aware of it, so if nothing else I have
                                                                                                                                                                              participated in educating someone out there..*LOL*

                                                                                                                                                                              I was wondering...........what started the whole thing about scientific
                                                                                                                                                                              names, etc???*LOL*

                                                                                                                                                                              Nan

                                                                                                                                                                              Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              Nan,

                                                                                                                                                                              I am well aware of the different betta species. I participated in
                                                                                                                                                                              the first
                                                                                                                                                                              publication on the "wild" betta species. Since that was written back
                                                                                                                                                                              in the
                                                                                                                                                                              late 70's, there have been many more betta species found and
                                                                                                                                                                              described. I
                                                                                                                                                                              did think about that in writing my post, but decided to forego that
                                                                                                                                                                              as
                                                                                                                                                                              adding more complexity to the arguments and the fact that a lot of
                                                                                                                                                                              people
                                                                                                                                                                              here now the varieties of _Betta splendens_ but not the actual
                                                                                                                                                                              progenitor of
                                                                                                                                                                              the varieties.

                                                                                                                                                                              BTW, I still have the original text of the wild betta species
                                                                                                                                                                              manuscript on
                                                                                                                                                                              disk around here somewhere--in WordStar format.

                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 2:16 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters


                                                                                                                                                                              All that is fine and dandy, Steve, however, you did make a mistake
                                                                                                                                                                              with the
                                                                                                                                                                              bettas. There are several different types of Bettas in the Betta
                                                                                                                                                                              Species,
                                                                                                                                                                              and B. Splendas came from wild b. splendas, the variation of color
                                                                                                                                                                              comes
                                                                                                                                                                              from that. But if you look around the web (and if it wasn't after
                                                                                                                                                                              2 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                              as I write this I would site them myself) there are several
                                                                                                                                                                              classifications
                                                                                                                                                                              for different types or species of the bettas. Just letting you
                                                                                                                                                                              know............oh, and btw. they each have their own scientific
                                                                                                                                                                              name as
                                                                                                                                                                              well.

                                                                                                                                                                              Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              First of all, taxonomy is not a joke. It is a way of
                                                                                                                                                                              classifying
                                                                                                                                                                              every
                                                                                                                                                                              living thing on this planet (at least on this planet for now).
                                                                                                                                                                              Secondly, the
                                                                                                                                                                              names are NOT Latin. They are a mix of Latin, Greek, and many
                                                                                                                                                                              other
                                                                                                                                                                              languages. They are known as scientific names, and they follow
                                                                                                                                                                              fairly strict
                                                                                                                                                                              rules when naming an organism. Thirdly, unlike common names,
                                                                                                                                                                              say,
                                                                                                                                                                              neon
                                                                                                                                                                              tetra, for example, which may actually refer to several
                                                                                                                                                                              distinct
                                                                                                                                                                              fish, there
                                                                                                                                                                              is a mechanism for tracking name changes called synonyms.
                                                                                                                                                                              _Paracheirodon
                                                                                                                                                                              innesi_ is the "real" neon tetra, named after William T.
                                                                                                                                                                              Innes, BTW,
                                                                                                                                                                              was
                                                                                                                                                                              formerly known as _Hyphessobrycon innesi_. The change of the
                                                                                                                                                                              scientific name
                                                                                                                                                                              was made when further studies showed that the fish differed
                                                                                                                                                                              from
                                                                                                                                                                              those other
                                                                                                                                                                              fish in the _Hyphessobrycon_ genus to rate a genus of their
                                                                                                                                                                              own. All
                                                                                                                                                                              nice
                                                                                                                                                                              and neat, the whole thing is.

                                                                                                                                                                              Oh, what are the other fish that have been commonly known as
                                                                                                                                                                              neon
                                                                                                                                                                              tetras?
                                                                                                                                                                              _Paracheirodon axelrodi_ is one, mostly known as the cardinal
                                                                                                                                                                              tetra
                                                                                                                                                                              (and
                                                                                                                                                                              named after Herbert Axelrod, and _Paracheirodon simulans_,
                                                                                                                                                                              which is
                                                                                                                                                                              also
                                                                                                                                                                              known as the green neon tetra because it lacks any red
                                                                                                                                                                              coloration.

                                                                                                                                                                              The betta you refer to is a whole other story. The ones people
                                                                                                                                                                              think
                                                                                                                                                                              of are
                                                                                                                                                                              the long finned variety with a great number of colors to chose
                                                                                                                                                                              from.
                                                                                                                                                                              These
                                                                                                                                                                              are descended from a "wild" stock of fish that are
                                                                                                                                                                              multi-colored,
                                                                                                                                                                              and have
                                                                                                                                                                              short fins and rounded tails and, yes, you can actually get
                                                                                                                                                                              those
                                                                                                                                                                              fish also.
                                                                                                                                                                              They have as much right to be called bettas as the fancy
                                                                                                                                                                              varieties
                                                                                                                                                                              do also.
                                                                                                                                                                              Are they the same fish? They sure are, but that steel blue
                                                                                                                                                                              betta you
                                                                                                                                                                              bought
                                                                                                                                                                              in a bowl at the fish place has been bred from that wild stock
                                                                                                                                                                              to
                                                                                                                                                                              look as
                                                                                                                                                                              they do. However, to the scientist they are the same fish,
                                                                                                                                                                              probably
                                                                                                                                                                              not even
                                                                                                                                                                              worth a sub species designation.

                                                                                                                                                                              If you are serious about this hobby, you will learn about
                                                                                                                                                                              scientific
                                                                                                                                                                              names.
                                                                                                                                                                              Some fish are only known by scientific names in the
                                                                                                                                                                              hobby--there is
                                                                                                                                                                              no
                                                                                                                                                                              common name for them.

                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Patrick, American Fish Guy
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 1:52 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters


                                                                                                                                                                              Taxonomy is a joke, in my opinion. If common names are
                                                                                                                                                                              removed
                                                                                                                                                                              and all
                                                                                                                                                                              fish are labeled by latin names, the entire aquarium industry
                                                                                                                                                                              will
                                                                                                                                                                              quickly
                                                                                                                                                                              die as people are turned off by the fact that they don't know
                                                                                                                                                                              what
                                                                                                                                                                              they are
                                                                                                                                                                              buying. NOBODY SPEAKS LATIN BUT OLD RICH GUYS (doctors,
                                                                                                                                                                              biologists,
                                                                                                                                                                              and
                                                                                                                                                                              priests)! Who wants to buy a b. splendens? People want
                                                                                                                                                                              bettas.

                                                                                                                                                                              :)
                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                              L numbers have been around since 1988. They were introduced in
                                                                                                                                                                              anticipation
                                                                                                                                                                              of a large number of undescribed species of Loricarid catfish
                                                                                                                                                                              that
                                                                                                                                                                              were
                                                                                                                                                                              being discovered. The introduction of L numbers was to avoid
                                                                                                                                                                              giving
                                                                                                                                                                              "trade
                                                                                                                                                                              (common) names" to the species, a very variable and subjective
                                                                                                                                                                              way
                                                                                                                                                                              of naming
                                                                                                                                                                              fish. A species can have 3, 4, 5 or more common names. I've
                                                                                                                                                                              seen the
                                                                                                                                                                              same
                                                                                                                                                                              fish with a new common name on a subsequent shipment from the
                                                                                                                                                                              wholesaler to
                                                                                                                                                                              a shop.




                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                              thanks
                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                              important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                                              modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                                              Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                              Discover Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                                              Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out!
                                                                                                                                                                              <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=32660/*http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html>

                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                              the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                              subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                              in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                              Yahoo! Groups Links


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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11279 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                              If they have a good scientific library, you may be golden. One publication
                                                                                                                                                                              to look for is "Coepia" which covers both fish and herps.

                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 9:16 PM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pacu 911


                                                                                                                                                                              Thank you, Steve. I live near Berry College in Georgia, so I should be able
                                                                                                                                                                              to check there. And keep useing Google, of course. I appreciate the help!

                                                                                                                                                                              Nan

                                                                                                                                                                              Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              Nan,

                                                                                                                                                                              I used to use the Yale and Harvard libraries quite a bit for that
                                                                                                                                                                              kind of
                                                                                                                                                                              stuff (time wise they were equidistant from where I was living).
                                                                                                                                                                              Now, I live
                                                                                                                                                                              way too far away for those libraries. I use mainly online sources
                                                                                                                                                                              now. When
                                                                                                                                                                              you do a Google search, you may find good sources if the domain ends
                                                                                                                                                                              in edu.
                                                                                                                                                                              There are also a good number of science publications on the net,
                                                                                                                                                                              some which
                                                                                                                                                                              require subscriptions for access and others that don't. One of my
                                                                                                                                                                              clients
                                                                                                                                                                              publishes a magazine known as _Science News_, so if I find a
                                                                                                                                                                              reference that
                                                                                                                                                                              requires a subscription, I can usually find the publication in their
                                                                                                                                                                              library
                                                                                                                                                                              and read it on my own time. They are nice enough to allow me access.
                                                                                                                                                                              I've
                                                                                                                                                                              not yet had the time or the need to check out other resources in
                                                                                                                                                                              this area
                                                                                                                                                                              such as the Smithsonian, though I have made the effort to get to
                                                                                                                                                                              know some
                                                                                                                                                                              of the people who work there. Not only do they have publications,
                                                                                                                                                                              but they
                                                                                                                                                                              have preserved specimens.

                                                                                                                                                                              I don't know where you live, but there may be a university near you
                                                                                                                                                                              that you
                                                                                                                                                                              can get access to their libraries, though it has gotten tougher to
                                                                                                                                                                              do over
                                                                                                                                                                              the last several years without having some sort of relationship with
                                                                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                                                                              university.


                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//



                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 2:18 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pacu 911


                                                                                                                                                                              Thank you Patrick. I will keep that in mind...*S* And later when I
                                                                                                                                                                              can
                                                                                                                                                                              keep my eyes open and not fall asleep at the keyboard (late at
                                                                                                                                                                              night!), I
                                                                                                                                                                              would like to know where I can find some of those research articles
                                                                                                                                                                              and peer
                                                                                                                                                                              reviewed articles.*grin*
                                                                                                                                                                              Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              "Patrick, American Fish Guy" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              It happens to me too. I plan to cite a source only to
                                                                                                                                                                              find
                                                                                                                                                                              out it says I'm wrong. That is when I quit posting on the subject.
                                                                                                                                                                              :) Just
                                                                                                                                                                              joking. Actually, the first source I found said omnivore that likes
                                                                                                                                                                              feeder
                                                                                                                                                                              fish. I almost thought I had gotten it way off, and then I found
                                                                                                                                                                              that
                                                                                                                                                                              research article. Rule number one of research: Research articles
                                                                                                                                                                              are more
                                                                                                                                                                              trustworthy than web sites, and peer reviewed articles are even
                                                                                                                                                                              better. :)

                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.

                                                                                                                                                                              Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and
                                                                                                                                                                              more
                                                                                                                                                                              money!
                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                              I'll Be.........After reading your post, Patrick, I was quick
                                                                                                                                                                              to
                                                                                                                                                                              jump on the "Says WHO?" band wagon, but ya know, your right they are
                                                                                                                                                                              suppossed to be herbivores, I have been mislead! I decided to site
                                                                                                                                                                              my own
                                                                                                                                                                              sources as to what the Pacu eats, to prove you wrong, Patrick, but
                                                                                                                                                                              alllll
                                                                                                                                                                              over the place I am seeing that they prefer hard nut like vegetation
                                                                                                                                                                              in the
                                                                                                                                                                              wild and that they will eat anything they can. I was right about
                                                                                                                                                                              them being
                                                                                                                                                                              related to the Pirannah family though!*LOL* Forgive my ignorance.
                                                                                                                                                                              I just
                                                                                                                                                                              know what I had learned from before. My bad! Let me list a few
                                                                                                                                                                              sources for
                                                                                                                                                                              those who don't believe me (and I guess Patrick, too...*LOL*)!

                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/wild/pacu.htm
                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/pacu-red.htm
                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.postring.net/pacu/

                                                                                                                                                                              Nan



                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                              thanks
                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                              important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                                              modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                                              Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11280 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                              Emily,

                                                                                                                                                                              Can't answer that one. Look up the spec sheet on the manufacturer's site.
                                                                                                                                                                              That should tell you.


                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//



                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 11:31 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank


                                                                                                                                                                              I have some Ammo-Lock that detoxifies ammonia, but does not remove it so it
                                                                                                                                                                              supposedly allows the biological filter to still grow. But the ammonia
                                                                                                                                                                              levels seem to be okay, so would the ammo-lock actually help with the
                                                                                                                                                                              nitrites as well?

                                                                                                                                                                              My comets are always begging for food so it's hard to NOT feed them, lol.
                                                                                                                                                                              But they should be okay feeding only every couple of days because they have
                                                                                                                                                                              live plants to nibble on...right?

                                                                                                                                                                              Emily

                                                                                                                                                                              Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              Emily,

                                                                                                                                                                              You pretty much have to ride the cycle out. Amquel is a product you
                                                                                                                                                                              might
                                                                                                                                                                              want to try as it converts nitrogen products to a non-toxic form,
                                                                                                                                                                              and using
                                                                                                                                                                              the proper test kit )I believe it is the Nesslar reagents you need,
                                                                                                                                                                              but I'd
                                                                                                                                                                              have to look it up to be sure) will still allow you to get an
                                                                                                                                                                              accurate
                                                                                                                                                                              measurement of the ammonia. You are two weeks into the cycle, so you
                                                                                                                                                                              have at
                                                                                                                                                                              least a couple of more weeks to go to completion. If you are using
                                                                                                                                                                              the same
                                                                                                                                                                              type of filtration in your other tank--the UGF--you can take some of
                                                                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                                                                              substrate from that tank and place it in the new tank to add to your
                                                                                                                                                                              bacterial colonies.

                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 5:14 PM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife; UniQuaria
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank


                                                                                                                                                                              Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                                              A couple of weeks ago I set up a new 55 gal tank with an undergravel
                                                                                                                                                                              filter
                                                                                                                                                                              plus a side filter (the waterfall kind). I added some water from my
                                                                                                                                                                              established goldfish aquarium and a bit of the gravel as well. I
                                                                                                                                                                              added some
                                                                                                                                                                              live plants, 4 rosy red minnows to get it cycling and some small
                                                                                                                                                                              snails.

                                                                                                                                                                              However, since it's going to be a goldfish tank, I decided about a
                                                                                                                                                                              week ago
                                                                                                                                                                              to add 2 medium comets and one tiny goldfish (the size of a minnow)
                                                                                                                                                                              because
                                                                                                                                                                              I thought that might speed up the cycle since the comets produce
                                                                                                                                                                              more waste
                                                                                                                                                                              than the rosy red minnows. I realized now that I might have added
                                                                                                                                                                              too many
                                                                                                                                                                              fish too soon. I have one large black moor and a medium bluescale
                                                                                                                                                                              oranda
                                                                                                                                                                              that I intend to add after it's cycled.

                                                                                                                                                                              I've been checking the water chemistry and the ammonia levels are
                                                                                                                                                                              down, but
                                                                                                                                                                              nitrites are up to 3ppm (stress zone). I did a 20% water change and
                                                                                                                                                                              then a
                                                                                                                                                                              10% water change with a gravel vacuum and added stress zyme. I'm
                                                                                                                                                                              wondering
                                                                                                                                                                              what I else I can do to get along with the cycle and drive down the
                                                                                                                                                                              nitrites. Nitrates are only at 30 ppm so far. pH is 6.4, alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                              is 0 and
                                                                                                                                                                              the water is hard. I've been adding salt at a rate of 0.5 tsp/gal
                                                                                                                                                                              because I
                                                                                                                                                                              read that it helps detoxify nitrites. I had a bag of zeolite in the
                                                                                                                                                                              tank for
                                                                                                                                                                              a while but removed it because I was adding salt. I have 2 zeolite
                                                                                                                                                                              and 2
                                                                                                                                                                              carbon cartridges in the under gravel filter and a regular carbon
                                                                                                                                                                              cartridge
                                                                                                                                                                              in the side filter.

                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks a lot for your help,
                                                                                                                                                                              Emily
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11281 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: More fish
                                                                                                                                                                              Nope. The fish you have will outgrow that tank.

                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of kb1dva
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 2:48 PM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] More fish


                                                                                                                                                                              I think I have room for a few more don't you.

                                                                                                                                                                              DSC00392
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11282 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Fw: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 757
                                                                                                                                                                                  That's the real problem.  This is a virus program that is able to access the email systems of certain members, using different email servers, and send the message as if it came from a member.  On a couple of groups I'm on, they come quite often from several members, but none of them have any record of it coming from them.  It may be some kind of protection in the yahoo system that deletes virus attachments, or these may just be disgruntled members trying to make some kind of point.  Now that I think about it, the groups that get those messages with no attached viruses are set up not to allow attachments in their messages.  This group allows them, so there wouldn't be as much of a block on them. 
                                                                                                                                                                                  I guess I'm leaning more toward disgruntled members or trolls who joined just to cause trouble.  I just wanted to throw the virus possibility out there in case that was the problem.  One things for sure, something seems "fishy". :)
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                              That may be the case (although I've yet to see a virus that sends
                                                                                                                                                                              e-mails without attempting to propagate itself), but if it were, it
                                                                                                                                                                              seems like we'd be seeing more than just the 2 messages. Also, since the
                                                                                                                                                                              list only accepts mail from subscribers, this is not the case of a
                                                                                                                                                                              random name being used.

                                                                                                                                                                              And, looking through the archives, it appears that this person has
                                                                                                                                                                              accidentally posted things before.

                                                                                                                                                                              - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                              Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11283 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Another Cycling Question
                                                                                                                                                                              Depends on how many fish you add how quickly. I'd not expect to fully stock
                                                                                                                                                                              the tank right away, but go with a few fish at a time, and you should be OK.
                                                                                                                                                                              Without ammonia, the bacteria will hibernate or die (some hibernate, some
                                                                                                                                                                              die), and this will reduce the colony size. Adding a few fish at a time will
                                                                                                                                                                              give the colonies time to wake up and grow to fill the need. Just keep an
                                                                                                                                                                              eye on your nitrogen levels (ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite) and you should
                                                                                                                                                                              be OK. If they rise, don't add fish until the cycle catches up.

                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of pamphetteplace
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 1:21 PM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Another Cycling Question

                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Guys

                                                                                                                                                                              I have a question for all you guys that have wayyyy more
                                                                                                                                                                              knowledge/experience than me (which is anybody that has been keepin'
                                                                                                                                                                              fish for more than 8 months....lol

                                                                                                                                                                              I set up my second 55 having bought it from a friend. The tank was
                                                                                                                                                                              well cycled had 3 filters, ugf, magnum 350 and a penguin with a huge
                                                                                                                                                                              biowheel....I threw in a well seeded huge sponge filter from my
                                                                                                                                                                              other 55. I used all his natural brown/tan pea gravel rinsing it
                                                                                                                                                                              gently in dechlorinated water.

                                                                                                                                                                              So I am wondering when or IF I should expect any spikes or should I
                                                                                                                                                                              consider this tank pretty well cycled? I know I tried to seed a 10
                                                                                                                                                                              gal tank recently...using a cup of gravel, water from a cycled tank
                                                                                                                                                                              and a used gently washed filter pad. This did not work at all for
                                                                                                                                                                              me.

                                                                                                                                                                              HFK

                                                                                                                                                                              Pam





                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                              the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                              subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                              in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11284 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: taxonomy is not a joke, but it can be funny
                                                                                                                                                                                  My point is not that I don't understand it, it is that I think it is broken down.  I didn't ridicule anybody, I made a point about a system that needs fixed, yet nobody wants to fix it.  I don't think anybody would disagree that there are many plants and animals given their own species that should be in a pre-existing species as a different color form.  I don't have a problem with people wanting to know every little detail about their fish.  Personally, I find some fish very interesting.  Especially bettas.  I just think it is wrong to question the seriousness of those who just like aquatic friends that look good and stay healthy.  These two issues are very different.  The current system is ok, but far from perfect.  I was taught that things that are not perfect should be made better.  No system created by man will ever be perfect, so there is always room for improvement.  Is it wrong to say that a system with problems needs some work?  That was my point.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                              It isn't a joke, it is just complicated. Why do people have to
                                                                                                                                                                              ridicule everything they do not understand? Are we in the dark ages?
                                                                                                                                                                              We may not be able to classify a new species, but we ought to at
                                                                                                                                                                              least be able to learn what we have in our own tanks, or what we want
                                                                                                                                                                              to buy.
                                                                                                                                                                              Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11285 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants and Light
                                                                                                                                                                                  That is plenty light for some plants.  Amazon swords, java ferns, java moss, and a few other plants will do great in low light.  I have 20 watts in my 29 gallon and my plants do well.  If you want more complicated plants, move up to a better light fixture that will give you closer to 40 watts (2 watts/gallon).  You might also try using flourish excel (the excel part is important).  Excel changed my yellow plants to green in 2 weeks.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                              I have plants that start out really dark green and lose color over time.  I have a 15  watt flourescent bulb in a 20 gallon tank.  Is this enough light?  Should I add anything for the plants?
                                                                                                                                                                              Angela
                                                                                                                                                                              Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11286 From: Torran Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Howdy and a question

                                                                                                                                                                               Thanks! I’ll look into the battery powered pump. =)

                                                                                                                                                                              <<>>Tor

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fish14162001
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 3:15 PM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Howdy and a question

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              what I have done in the past is put the fish in a 5 gallon bucket with
                                                                                                                                                                              water from thier tank. get a battery powered air pump, air line, and a
                                                                                                                                                                              air stone. they should be ok during the trip. also make sure you cover
                                                                                                                                                                              the top of the bucket so no one jumps out. hope this is helpful.


                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11287 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                                              I'll never have a tank again that does not have at least one clown loach.
                                                                                                                                                                              They really tke care of the snails. Haven't see one in months - which is
                                                                                                                                                                              fine by me
                                                                                                                                                                              red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11288 From: mrevilcoyote Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: live rock
                                                                                                                                                                              Anyone have any good places to get live rock or fish online...Ive
                                                                                                                                                                              looked at www.thatfishplace.com and like thier prices, compared to
                                                                                                                                                                              local. here locally its VERY VERY expensive. Just wondering if anyone
                                                                                                                                                                              would give me input whether good or bad to online purchase of fish.
                                                                                                                                                                              Ya can email me direct so not to fill boards up....

                                                                                                                                                                              thanks
                                                                                                                                                                              Scott
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11289 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Protein Skimmer for Sale
                                                                                                                                                                              Have Berlin Airlift 90 for sale $25 plus shipping. Let me know if you
                                                                                                                                                                              are intersted.
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11290 From: Richard Jolitz Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: New Aquarium type person
                                                                                                                                                                              Greetings All.

                                                                                                                                                                              I am looking for some suggestions on good hardy
                                                                                                                                                                              starter fish. I have 10 gallon tank setup and the
                                                                                                                                                                              single fish I put in it didn't do well [betta] and has
                                                                                                                                                                              since croaked.

                                                                                                                                                                              Anyone have any suggestions for a good hardy community
                                                                                                                                                                              fish that is a good starter? I've considered mollys
                                                                                                                                                                              and/or tetras along with a betta for color.

                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks for any help!


                                                                                                                                                                              Rich


                                                                                                                                                                              __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                              Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                                                              http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11291 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: retrofiting lights
                                                                                                                                                                              I have been very happy with JBJ lighting. Initially the cost seems high but now I grow plants rather than replace them.The savings in plants makes the fixture worth the price.
                                                                                                                                                                              HTH
                                                                                                                                                                              red-eye



                                                                                                                                                                              At 11:29 PM 5/3/2005, you wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              I would suggest checking a few of the Aquatic Gardner websights. A lot of them have DIY projects and or talk about there upgrades.
                                                                                                                                                                              I have seen AHsupply mentioned numerous times in other forums.. Don't think I have ever heard any thing bad about them..

                                                                                                                                                                              also might try http://www.hellolights.com/ or http://www.championlighting.com/ 



                                                                                                                                                                              <
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11292 From: Torran Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Howdy and a question

                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks Trevor!

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent:
                                                                                                                                                                              Wednesday, May 04, 2005 12:01 PM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Howdy and a question

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Fill a cooler (the kind you use for picnics) part way with water from
                                                                                                                                                                              the tank and put the fish in there to transport them. When you stop
                                                                                                                                                                              along the way, open the cooler to refresh the air.

                                                                                                                                                                              - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11293 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: coffee cups in tanks?
                                                                                                                                                                              I use stone & rock from a local masonry yard. You need to realize though that some types of rock would not be good to use, like limestone for instance.
                                                                                                                                                                              HTH
                                                                                                                                                                              red-eye

                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11294 From: Wouldnt you like to know! Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Newbie with lots of questions!
                                                                                                                                                                              Hello! Beginning tropical fish nut here! I am wanting to start an
                                                                                                                                                                              aquarium. I have kept bettas, tetras, etc. before, but I am kicking
                                                                                                                                                                              into a higher gear this time. Here is the aquarium I have bought.

                                                                                                                                                                              Hawkeye 10 Gallon seamless acrylic Aquarium Complete Kit Plus
                                                                                                                                                                              Fluorescent Illumination, Hooded Light Fixture, Cartridge, Marineland
                                                                                                                                                                              Mini Peguin Power Filter, Fish Net, Thermometer, Water Treatment
                                                                                                                                                                              Length is 21" width x 11 1/2 Dia. , 17" height

                                                                                                                                                                              Ok! So I'm looking at putting these fish together in it:

                                                                                                                                                                              1 Male butterfly betta

                                                                                                                                                                              3-4 ghost shrimp

                                                                                                                                                                              1 glass catfish

                                                                                                                                                                              1 Sunset Gouramis

                                                                                                                                                                              2-3 Guppies

                                                                                                                                                                              4-5 Neon Tetras

                                                                                                                                                                              2 Balloon Pink Kisser Gouramis

                                                                                                                                                                              1 Gold Mystery Snail

                                                                                                                                                                              possibly 1 female Betta if the male is really passive

                                                                                                                                                                              A total of roughly 18-19. Most are small.

                                                                                                                                                                              I know this is a lot. Is it too much? Can it be done without any
                                                                                                                                                                              dying? What temp should I put it?

                                                                                                                                                                              I'm looking at feeding them all Tropical color enhancing flakes and
                                                                                                                                                                              these little Betta flakes.

                                                                                                                                                                              I'm going to get little decorative nooks so that those that want to
                                                                                                                                                                              hide can.

                                                                                                                                                                              I'm looking at getting plastic plants.

                                                                                                                                                                              I saw a battery operated gravel vac I thought I would get. Along
                                                                                                                                                                              with the filter, would that be enough to clean? How often should I
                                                                                                                                                                              use the vac?

                                                                                                                                                                              How often should I feed them all and how much?

                                                                                                                                                                              I'll get that ammonia fighting gravel and some natural stone.

                                                                                                                                                                              I'm going to use filtered spring water from a jug for the initial
                                                                                                                                                                              filling of the tank. I have a stable place to put it in a corner
                                                                                                                                                                              away from the crowd and on a wooden stand.

                                                                                                                                                                              I was thinking of starting out putting in the shrimp, snail, Balloon
                                                                                                                                                                              Kissers, Neon Tetras and Ghost Catfish

                                                                                                                                                                              Then maybe in a couple weeks add the Sunset Gouramis, Betta, Guppies

                                                                                                                                                                              OR start out putting in the Balloons, shrimp, catfish and snail and
                                                                                                                                                                              then in a couple weeks put in the sunset g., guppies, betta and neon
                                                                                                                                                                              tetras.

                                                                                                                                                                              I probably need to get a water testing kit. Is one at Walmart good
                                                                                                                                                                              or where? And what should the levels look like.

                                                                                                                                                                              I know these are a ton of questions but I've looked at several pages
                                                                                                                                                                              and haven't found quite the information I need.

                                                                                                                                                                              I know that a 10 gal. isn't ideal for this many fish but can I get
                                                                                                                                                                              away with it with them being reasonable comfortable?

                                                                                                                                                                              If not, which ones should I eliminate from my list?

                                                                                                                                                                              Thank you for your time and listening to me prattle along. I really
                                                                                                                                                                              do appreciate it and beg for advice. Pleeeeaaaasssseeee help me!

                                                                                                                                                                              ~*~Star Blaze~*~
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11295 From: tmt118@ptd.net Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                              For do it yourself CO2, check out this website:
                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html

                                                                                                                                                                              It has very good and accurate information.

                                                                                                                                                                              Tina
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11296 From: stevebruce30 Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Tank mates suitability
                                                                                                                                                                              Hi just want some suggestions I have 3 tank set ups at the moment 1
                                                                                                                                                                              coldwater with goldfish and 2 2 ft x 1ft x 1 ft tropical tanks. I
                                                                                                                                                                              tank has
                                                                                                                                                                              3 clown loaches and a red-tailed shark with 4 tetras. The other has
                                                                                                                                                                              about a
                                                                                                                                                                              million baby guppies and 3 corys.

                                                                                                                                                                              The Loaches and the shark are now outgrowing the tank so luckily im
                                                                                                                                                                              getting
                                                                                                                                                                              a 6ft x 2ft x 2ft tank. The loaches and the shark are being moved
                                                                                                                                                                              into it.
                                                                                                                                                                              I like "big" colourful fish and would like to have some suggestions.
                                                                                                                                                                              I
                                                                                                                                                                              would like something like blue acara, blue dolphin cichlid or
                                                                                                                                                                              something
                                                                                                                                                                              similar. My PH is 6.8 and water soft. Obviously they have to be
                                                                                                                                                                              compatible
                                                                                                                                                                              with the loaches and shark

                                                                                                                                                                              Any Ideas???

                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks in advance

                                                                                                                                                                              Steve
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11297 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: pacu problems
                                                                                                                                                                              What are you using to declorinate & remove chlorimines (sp?) that comes in
                                                                                                                                                                              "pond size"
                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                              red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11298 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Nim,
                                                                                                                                                                              I have been reading about CO2 for the last six months. I look at the plants that thrive in my take using JBJ lighting and wonder why do I need better.
                                                                                                                                                                              Notice I said thrive - some pants seem to wither over many months. I am still a newbie at indoor aquatic plants, so I figure as I learn more about plants the better my choices will be. Interestingly enough (maybe) I have been quite successful growing aquatic plants out doors for the last 15 years as I also have a pond for turtles & fish.  Took a bit to figure out what works for a specific plant outside but well worth the experimentation in my opinion.
                                                                                                                                                                              Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                              red-eye

                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11299 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: For Sale: Protein Skimmer
                                                                                                                                                                              Have a Berlin Airlift 90 for sale, $35 shipped (as long as you are in
                                                                                                                                                                              the US).

                                                                                                                                                                              Have pics if interested.

                                                                                                                                                                              Zac
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11300 From: Joe Sevier Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: New fish group on yahoo and lookin 4 a co-moderator
                                                                                                                                                                              My name is joe and I have a new group on yahoo called Aquatik City and
                                                                                                                                                                              I need another moderator 2 help me with the group. if anyone is
                                                                                                                                                                              interested then visit http://groups.yahoo.com/Aquatikcity and join the
                                                                                                                                                                              group and post a message. I need help bad please!!
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11301 From: naser morade Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants CO2?


                                                                                                                                                                              paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              what is your lightiung situation btw? elodia is a low
                                                                                                                                                                              light plant but does best under 2 watts per gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                              if it is turning yellow it is losing chloroplasts
                                                                                                                                                                              --- Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > I went to a different LFS on the weekend which had a
                                                                                                                                                                              > lot of nice looking plants.The LFS's Elodia was very
                                                                                                                                                                              > very dark green.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > ...My Elodia is a light light green/almost yellow
                                                                                                                                                                              > color, and i thought that was normal.    So I asked
                                                                                                                                                                              > the guy what he does to get it DARK GREEN and he
                                                                                                                                                                              > said just added neutrients...
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > So i now think that my tank isn't lacking CO2
                                                                                                                                                                              > because every thing is really fast growing, its
                                                                                                                                                                              > lacking the neutrients I the water and I have since
                                                                                                                                                                              > brought some Seachem Flourish plant neutrents
                                                                                                                                                                              > (250ml) put that in my tank yesterday and this
                                                                                                                                                                              > morning... maybe the plants are a little darker
                                                                                                                                                                              > today not sure as yet early days.<
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11302 From: fostor2000 Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                              try letting it sit for a couple of days. so the tank can adjust to
                                                                                                                                                                              everything
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11303 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
                                                                                                                                                                              Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                              Anyone know how many watts is a 10K bulb?
                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                              red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11304 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                              Ok I'll bite.
                                                                                                                                                                              Can you say what chloroplasts are?
                                                                                                                                                                              red-eye



                                                                                                                                                                              At 09:21 PM 5/8/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              >what is your lightiung situation btw? elodia is a low
                                                                                                                                                                              >light plant but does best under 2 watts per gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                              >if it is turning yellow it is losing chloroplasts
                                                                                                                                                                              >--- Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > > I went to a different LFS on the weekend which had a
                                                                                                                                                                              > > lot of nice looking plants.The LFS's Elodia was very
                                                                                                                                                                              > > very dark green.
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11305 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                              Guys, thanks for all your help!!
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Emily

                                                                                                                                                                              Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              Trevor,

                                                                                                                                                                              If she is using a UGF in the other tank, it will be more heavily populated
                                                                                                                                                                              with the bacteria she needs than gravel that does not have a water flow
                                                                                                                                                                              through it. It the latter case, most of the bacteria will be at the surface
                                                                                                                                                                              of the gravel, where they can actual get the nutrients they need. If that is
                                                                                                                                                                              the case, taking a few handfuls of that gravel will not do her much good,
                                                                                                                                                                              since the cycle has already started. It will not add that many more bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                              to help populate the new tank. Will it help? Sure, but it just will not
                                                                                                                                                                              give her the boost that she is looking for. On the other hand, a few
                                                                                                                                                                              handfuls of gravel from a tank with a working UGF will give her an immediate
                                                                                                                                                                              boost, and get the populations growing at a much faster rate, simply based
                                                                                                                                                                              on numbers.

                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 11:37 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank

                                                                                                                                                                              Why should it matter whether she's using a UGF in both tanks? The
                                                                                                                                                                              gravel from the established tank should have bacteria in it no matter
                                                                                                                                                                              what kind of filter she's using (or even if she weren't using a filter).

                                                                                                                                                                              - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                              > type of filtration in your other tank--the UGF--you can take some of the
                                                                                                                                                                              > substrate from that tank and place it in the new tank to add to your
                                                                                                                                                                              > bacterial colonies.




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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11306 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                              that's a good idea. I'm going to try adding the sponge from the other tank and see what happens in the meantime without feeding. Then maybe add some established gravel. The fish seem content anyway, and only one of the feeder minnows died right away.
                                                                                                                                                                              Emily

                                                                                                                                                                              fostor2000 <fostor2000@...> wrote:


                                                                                                                                                                              try letting it sit for a couple of days. so the tank can adjust to
                                                                                                                                                                              everything






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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11307 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                              that's a good idea. I'm going to try adding the sponge from the other tank and see what happens in the meantime without feeding. Then maybe add some established gravel. The fish seem content anyway, and only one of the feeder minnows died right away.
                                                                                                                                                                              Emily

                                                                                                                                                                              fostor2000 <fostor2000@...> wrote:


                                                                                                                                                                              try letting it sit for a couple of days. so the tank can adjust to
                                                                                                                                                                              everything






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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11308 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                              How do you know if there is a CO2 deficency verses a Neutrient deficency?
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                              From: r_ohle@...
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 8:37 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Nim,
                                                                                                                                                                              I have been reading about CO2 for the last six months. I look at the plants that thrive in my take using JBJ lighting and wonder why do I need better.
                                                                                                                                                                              Notice I said thrive - some pants seem to wither over many months. I am still a newbie at indoor aquatic plants, so I figure as I learn more about plants the better my choices will be. Interestingly enough (maybe) I have been quite successful growing aquatic plants out doors for the last 15 years as I also have a pond for turtles & fish.  Took a bit to figure out what works for a specific plant outside but well worth the experimentation in my opinion.
                                                                                                                                                                              Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                              red-eye



                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11309 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                              I have two 4ft Fluros on my tank which is about 300liters or 90gallons.

                                                                                                                                                                              One of the Fluros is for making the fish look nice and its a proper aquatic
                                                                                                                                                                              fluro and my other one is a standard fluro for houses, eventually i'll
                                                                                                                                                                              replace it with a fish one when it wears out or i feel like spending the
                                                                                                                                                                              money at Bunnings to buy a proper one.

                                                                                                                                                                              =Nick


                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                              From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                              To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 2:21 PM
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants CO2?


                                                                                                                                                                              > what is your lightiung situation btw? elodia is a low
                                                                                                                                                                              > light plant but does best under 2 watts per gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                              > if it is turning yellow it is losing chloroplasts
                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              >> I went to a different LFS on the weekend which had a
                                                                                                                                                                              >> lot of nice looking plants.The LFS's Elodia was very
                                                                                                                                                                              >> very dark green.
                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                              >> ...My Elodia is a light light green/almost yellow
                                                                                                                                                                              >> color, and i thought that was normal. So I asked
                                                                                                                                                                              >> the guy what he does to get it DARK GREEN and he
                                                                                                                                                                              >> said just added neutrients...
                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                              >> So i now think that my tank isn't lacking CO2
                                                                                                                                                                              >> because every thing is really fast growing, its
                                                                                                                                                                              >> lacking the neutrients I the water and I have since
                                                                                                                                                                              >> brought some Seachem Flourish plant neutrents
                                                                                                                                                                              >> (250ml) put that in my tank yesterday and this
                                                                                                                                                                              >> morning... maybe the plants are a little darker
                                                                                                                                                                              >> today not sure as yet early days.
                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                                                                                                              > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11310 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                              Better yet... tell me how to solve a lack of them?


                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                              From: <r_ohle@...>
                                                                                                                                                                              To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 4:19 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants CO2?


                                                                                                                                                                              > Ok I'll bite.
                                                                                                                                                                              > Can you say what chloroplasts are?
                                                                                                                                                                              > red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > At 09:21 PM 5/8/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              >>what is your lightiung situation btw? elodia is a low
                                                                                                                                                                              >>light plant but does best under 2 watts per gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                              >>if it is turning yellow it is losing chloroplasts
                                                                                                                                                                              >>--- Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              >> > I went to a different LFS on the weekend which had a
                                                                                                                                                                              >> > lot of nice looking plants.The LFS's Elodia was very
                                                                                                                                                                              >> > very dark green.
                                                                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                              > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                              > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                              > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11311 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                              Did you never have to draw plant cells in biology or science class? :)  Chloroplasts are tiny micro organisms that are almost cells, but not quite, so they live inside plant cells.  It is kind of a symbiotic relationship because the chloroplast would not do much without a cell, and the cell would not have a food source without the chloroplast.  They contain chlorophyll, which is the green stuff that converts sun light and minerals into energy, which is what the plant needs to live. 
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                              Ok I'll bite.
                                                                                                                                                                              Can you say what chloroplasts are?
                                                                                                                                                                              red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                              Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11312 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Betta & others (tank mate??)
                                                                                                                                                                              I have a very happy Betta which is occasionly sometimes picked on by the
                                                                                                                                                                              Guppies when I forget to feed them (Guppies) some algae discs.

                                                                                                                                                                              I have my Betta with

                                                                                                                                                                              4x 6 month old Tiger Barbs,
                                                                                                                                                                              8x 1 month old Tiger Barbs,

                                                                                                                                                                              2x 6 month old Silver Sharks,
                                                                                                                                                                              4x 3 week old silver sharks,

                                                                                                                                                                              Bucket load of Guppies including one fancy tailed one (tail fin is about
                                                                                                                                                                              15mm long)

                                                                                                                                                                              1x Cory dory
                                                                                                                                                                              1x Bristle Nose
                                                                                                                                                                              1x Simease Algae Eater aka Flying Fox
                                                                                                                                                                              2x Mollies
                                                                                                                                                                              2x Sword Tails

                                                                                                                                                                              its a 4ft tank and about 90gallons.


                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                              From: "J G" <sir_grubs47@...>
                                                                                                                                                                              To: <Betta_Crazy@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                              Cc: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 3:47 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta & others (tank mate??)


                                                                                                                                                                              >I was at wal-mart yesterday, looking for a plant for
                                                                                                                                                                              > my grandmother for mothers day... I of course stopped
                                                                                                                                                                              > & checked out the fish...
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I glanced into their guppy tank & I noticed along with
                                                                                                                                                                              > the guppies, there was a red male betta swimmin around
                                                                                                                                                                              > in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I was just wondering if you all here could provide
                                                                                                                                                                              > some help on tank mates...
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I know I cant put my 2 male bettas together, but I was
                                                                                                                                                                              > wonderin if I could put one in with my communal
                                                                                                                                                                              > tank... Right now they're in a 5 gal tank, but as
                                                                                                                                                                              > soon as I find some room to set up the 10gal I'll
                                                                                                                                                                              > transfer them over to the bigger tank. In the tank is
                                                                                                                                                                              > 2 glow tetras (the orange neon type looking fish), a
                                                                                                                                                                              > blue tiger barb, an angle fish, an oto cat & a pelco.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I have the 10gal & 2 5-gal tanks I can mix the fish up
                                                                                                                                                                              > into.. just wondering if anyone would work to put one
                                                                                                                                                                              > of the males into.. I'm thinking of maybe getting
                                                                                                                                                                              > some guppies (they're cute) & maybe putting one of the
                                                                                                                                                                              > males in (it looked good at wal-mart)...
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Discover Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                                              > Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out!
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                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11313 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: More fish
                                                                                                                                                                              whats the dimentions of the tank? hard to tell form pic./

                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                              From: "kb1dva" <vze3pd7a@...>
                                                                                                                                                                              To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 4:48 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] More fish


                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I think I have room for a few more don't you.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > DSC00392
                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11314 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: WAS RE: Hi again I ne.. (HEATERS )
                                                                                                                                                                              Please please recall!
                                                                                                                                                                              > Actually, the number of watts per gallon should be determined by the
                                                                                                                                                                              > difference in the ambient air temperature and the temperature at which you
                                                                                                                                                                              > wish to keep your water at.

                                                                                                                                                                              =Nick


                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                              From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...>
                                                                                                                                                                              To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 12:38 PM
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] WAS RE: Hi again I ne.. (HEATERS )


                                                                                                                                                                              > Actually, the number of watts per gallon should be determined by the
                                                                                                                                                                              > difference in the ambient air temperature and the temperature at which you
                                                                                                                                                                              > wish to keep your water at. The larger the difference, the more watts you
                                                                                                                                                                              > need to maintain the temperature. It seems to me that someone had once
                                                                                                                                                                              > worked up a table showing this, but I'll be dogoned if I can remember who
                                                                                                                                                                              > or
                                                                                                                                                                              > where I saw it.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 9:56 PM
                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: [AquaticLife] WAS RE: Hi again I ne.. (HEATERS )
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I quoted a Brand name Heater companies suggestions on this. ( wattage per
                                                                                                                                                                              > gallon )
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Myself i have a 200W in a 75 as a main heater and a 100 watt backup.. My
                                                                                                                                                                              > 55
                                                                                                                                                                              > gallon tanks have 150Watt heaters, and they all work great. I think the
                                                                                                                                                                              > Industry standard is looking for more watts because it means more $$ in
                                                                                                                                                                              > there pockets...
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I ran (2) 75 watt heaters in a 55 gallon tank for almost 4 years with no
                                                                                                                                                                              > problems, but in the move I replaced all my heaters as they where getting
                                                                                                                                                                              > old.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Still have them as backups someplace in this Jungle of airline, and
                                                                                                                                                                              > extension cords LOL But My room stays pretty constant in the lower
                                                                                                                                                                              > 70's-mid
                                                                                                                                                                              > 70's all year long. And I run all my tanks at an average of 75* F
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > rob
                                                                                                                                                                              > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > In a message dated 5/7/2005 8:48:08 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                                              > wtfmorlok@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > 100 watt. For 5 to 20 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                              > > 200 watt. For 20 to 40 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                              > > 300 watt. For 40 to 75 gallon aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                              > > 400watt. For 75 to 120 gallon aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > rob
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                              > > USA
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                              > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                              > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                              > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11315 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                              A lack of them means your plants are not doing well (like brown leaves in the fall).  Nobody can tell you how to fix it, but everyone has given a suggestion I think.  Increase lighting, increase nutrients, use Excel, use CO2, one of them, or a combination of them, will fix the problem. 
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                              Better yet... tell me how to solve a lack of them?
                                                                                                                                                                              Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11316 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                              you can't.....remove teh dead or dying parts and fix
                                                                                                                                                                              the lighting problem so that the plant can grow new
                                                                                                                                                                              leaves. i may not have stated it correctly by saying
                                                                                                                                                                              losing chloroplasts. i simply meant that the plant
                                                                                                                                                                              was sying from teh lack of sufficient light and
                                                                                                                                                                              turning yellow because chlorophyl is not being
                                                                                                                                                                              produced
                                                                                                                                                                              --- Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > Better yet... tell me how to solve a lack of them?
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                              > From: <r_ohle@...>
                                                                                                                                                                              > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 4:19 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Ok I'll bite.
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Can you say what chloroplasts are?
                                                                                                                                                                              > > red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > At 09:21 PM 5/8/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > >>what is your lightiung situation btw? elodia is a
                                                                                                                                                                              > low
                                                                                                                                                                              > >>light plant but does best under 2 watts per
                                                                                                                                                                              > gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                              > >>if it is turning yellow it is losing chloroplasts
                                                                                                                                                                              > >>--- Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...>
                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > >> > I went to a different LFS on the weekend which
                                                                                                                                                                              > had a
                                                                                                                                                                              > >> > lot of nice looking plants.The LFS's Elodia was
                                                                                                                                                                              > very
                                                                                                                                                                              > >> > very dark green.
                                                                                                                                                                              > >> >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >> >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                                                                                              > when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                              > > .
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                              > that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                              > > the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                                                                                                              > original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                              > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                              > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                              > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11317 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                              co2 is just like plant steroids...you won't be
                                                                                                                                                                              deficient unless you are extremely planted. the
                                                                                                                                                                              fertilizers are sufficientin most cases
                                                                                                                                                                              --- Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > How do you know if there is a CO2 deficency verses a
                                                                                                                                                                              > Neutrient deficency?
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                              > From: r_ohle@...
                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 8:37 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Hi Nim,
                                                                                                                                                                              > I have been reading about CO2 for the last six
                                                                                                                                                                              > months. I look at the plants that thrive in my take
                                                                                                                                                                              > using JBJ lighting and wonder why do I need better.
                                                                                                                                                                              > Notice I said thrive - some pants seem to wither
                                                                                                                                                                              > over many months. I am still a newbie at indoor
                                                                                                                                                                              > aquatic plants, so I figure as I learn more about
                                                                                                                                                                              > plants the better my choices will be. Interestingly
                                                                                                                                                                              > enough (maybe) I have been quite successful growing
                                                                                                                                                                              > aquatic plants out doors for the last 15 years as I
                                                                                                                                                                              > also have a pond for turtles & fish. Took a bit to
                                                                                                                                                                              > figure out what works for a specific plant outside
                                                                                                                                                                              > but well worth the experimentation in my opinion.
                                                                                                                                                                              > Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                              > red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it
                                                                                                                                                                              > when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                              > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                                                                              > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                                                                              > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                                              > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                              > matter
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11318 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                              just remember to use power heads with deep beds, air
                                                                                                                                                                              pumps will not form a strong enough suction for the
                                                                                                                                                                              ugf to work. that would be a situation where problems
                                                                                                                                                                              occur with toxic gases
                                                                                                                                                                              --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > Emily,
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > A deeper bed will give you more biological activity.
                                                                                                                                                                              > I've seen as much as 5"
                                                                                                                                                                              > of gravel in a tank with a UGF, though I've never
                                                                                                                                                                              > gone that deep myself.
                                                                                                                                                                              > Gold fish are "dirty" fish in that they excrete a
                                                                                                                                                                              > lot of ammonia. The more
                                                                                                                                                                              > gravel bed you have, the more bacteria can colonize
                                                                                                                                                                              > it and take care of the
                                                                                                                                                                              > load from the goldfish.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 12:19 PM
                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help with
                                                                                                                                                                              > nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I did add some gravel already, but I think I could
                                                                                                                                                                              > bring in some more. Is a
                                                                                                                                                                              > few inches of gravel too much for a UGF?? I wanted a
                                                                                                                                                                              > deeper substrate in the
                                                                                                                                                                              > new planted tank because the goldfish like to dig up
                                                                                                                                                                              > plants.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Trevor <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Why should it matter whether she's using a UGF in
                                                                                                                                                                              > both tanks? The
                                                                                                                                                                              > gravel from the established tank should have
                                                                                                                                                                              > bacteria in it no
                                                                                                                                                                              > matter
                                                                                                                                                                              > what kind of filter she's using (or even if she
                                                                                                                                                                              > weren't using a
                                                                                                                                                                              > filter).
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo"
                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > > If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                              > > type of filtration in your other tank--the
                                                                                                                                                                              > UGF--you can take some
                                                                                                                                                                              > of the
                                                                                                                                                                              > > substrate from that tank and place it in the new
                                                                                                                                                                              > tank to add to
                                                                                                                                                                              > your
                                                                                                                                                                              > > bacterial colonies.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11319 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                              what is AAfG?
                                                                                                                                                                              --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              > Nan,
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I can't recall specifically--it was an off shoot of
                                                                                                                                                                              > another thread. I'd have
                                                                                                                                                                              > to go back through my messages to find it. However,
                                                                                                                                                                              > it has made for an
                                                                                                                                                                              > interesting discussion, and, despite what Patrick,
                                                                                                                                                                              > (AAFG) thinks, it is a
                                                                                                                                                                              > tried and true system.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I'll answer the rest off list.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 9:11 PM
                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I would be interested in that disk, if it would
                                                                                                                                                                              > convert to Corel WP?
                                                                                                                                                                              > Anyway, I apologize for being......snotty?*chuckle*
                                                                                                                                                                              > I have made myself a
                                                                                                                                                                              > new rule of not answering email late at night
                                                                                                                                                                              > anymore..*LOL* None the less,
                                                                                                                                                                              > others might not have been aware of it, so if
                                                                                                                                                                              > nothing else I have
                                                                                                                                                                              > participated in educating someone out there..*LOL*
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I was wondering...........what started the whole
                                                                                                                                                                              > thing about scientific
                                                                                                                                                                              > names, etc???*LOL*
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Nan,
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I am well aware of the different betta species. I
                                                                                                                                                                              > participated in
                                                                                                                                                                              > the first
                                                                                                                                                                              > publication on the "wild" betta species. Since that
                                                                                                                                                                              > was written back
                                                                                                                                                                              > in the
                                                                                                                                                                              > late 70's, there have been many more betta species
                                                                                                                                                                              > found and
                                                                                                                                                                              > described. I
                                                                                                                                                                              > did think about that in writing my post, but
                                                                                                                                                                              > decided to forego that
                                                                                                                                                                              > as
                                                                                                                                                                              > adding more complexity to the arguments and the
                                                                                                                                                                              > fact that a lot of
                                                                                                                                                                              > people
                                                                                                                                                                              > here now the varieties of _Betta splendens_ but not
                                                                                                                                                                              > the actual
                                                                                                                                                                              > progenitor of
                                                                                                                                                                              > the varieties.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > BTW, I still have the original text of the wild
                                                                                                                                                                              > betta species
                                                                                                                                                                              > manuscript on
                                                                                                                                                                              > disk around here somewhere--in WordStar format.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 2:16 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > All that is fine and dandy, Steve, however, you did
                                                                                                                                                                              > make a mistake
                                                                                                                                                                              > with the
                                                                                                                                                                              > bettas. There are several different types of
                                                                                                                                                                              > Bettas in the Betta
                                                                                                                                                                              > Species,
                                                                                                                                                                              > and B. Splendas came from wild b. splendas, the
                                                                                                                                                                              > variation of color
                                                                                                                                                                              > comes
                                                                                                                                                                              > from that. But if you look around the web (and if
                                                                                                                                                                              > it wasn't after
                                                                                                                                                                              > 2 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                              > as I write this I would site them myself) there are
                                                                                                                                                                              > several
                                                                                                                                                                              > classifications
                                                                                                                                                                              > for different types or species of the bettas. Just
                                                                                                                                                                              > letting you
                                                                                                                                                                              > know............oh, and btw. they each have their
                                                                                                                                                                              > own scientific
                                                                                                                                                                              > name as
                                                                                                                                                                              > well.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > First of all, taxonomy is not a joke. It is a
                                                                                                                                                                              > way of
                                                                                                                                                                              > classifying
                                                                                                                                                                              > every
                                                                                                                                                                              > living thing on this planet (at least on this
                                                                                                                                                                              > planet for now).
                                                                                                                                                                              > Secondly, the
                                                                                                                                                                              > names are NOT Latin. They are a mix of Latin,
                                                                                                                                                                              > Greek, and many
                                                                                                                                                                              > other
                                                                                                                                                                              > languages. They are known as scientific
                                                                                                                                                                              > names, and they follow
                                                                                                                                                                              > fairly strict
                                                                                                                                                                              > rules when naming an organism. Thirdly,
                                                                                                                                                                              > unlike common names,
                                                                                                                                                                              > say,
                                                                                                                                                                              > neon
                                                                                                                                                                              > tetra, for example, which may actually refer
                                                                                                                                                                              > to several
                                                                                                                                                                              > distinct
                                                                                                                                                                              > fish, there
                                                                                                                                                                              > is a mechanism for tracking name changes
                                                                                                                                                                              > called synonyms.
                                                                                                                                                                              > _Paracheirodon
                                                                                                                                                                              > innesi_ is the "real" neon tetra, named after
                                                                                                                                                                              > William T.
                                                                                                                                                                              > Innes, BTW,
                                                                                                                                                                              > was
                                                                                                                                                                              > formerly known as _Hyphessobrycon innesi_.
                                                                                                                                                                              > The change of the
                                                                                                                                                                              > scientific name
                                                                                                                                                                              > was made when further studies showed that the
                                                                                                                                                                              > fish differed
                                                                                                                                                                              > from
                                                                                                                                                                              > those other
                                                                                                                                                                              > fish in the _Hyphessobrycon_ genus to rate a
                                                                                                                                                                              > genus of their
                                                                                                                                                                              > own. All
                                                                                                                                                                              > nice
                                                                                                                                                                              > and neat, the whole thing is.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Oh, what are the other fish that have been
                                                                                                                                                                              > commonly known as
                                                                                                                                                                              > neon
                                                                                                                                                                              > tetras?
                                                                                                                                                                              > _Paracheirodon axelrodi_ is one, mostly known
                                                                                                                                                                              > as the cardinal
                                                                                                                                                                              > tetra
                                                                                                                                                                              > (and
                                                                                                                                                                              > named after Herbert Axelrod, and
                                                                                                                                                                              > _Paracheirodon simulans_,
                                                                                                                                                                              > which is
                                                                                                                                                                              > also
                                                                                                                                                                              > known as the green neon tetra because it
                                                                                                                                                                              > lacks any red
                                                                                                                                                                              > coloration.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > The betta you refer to is a whole other
                                                                                                                                                                              > story. The ones people
                                                                                                                                                                              > think
                                                                                                                                                                              > of are
                                                                                                                                                                              > the long finned variety with a great number
                                                                                                                                                                              > of colors to chose
                                                                                                                                                                              > from.
                                                                                                                                                                              > These
                                                                                                                                                                              > are descended from a "wild" stock of fish
                                                                                                                                                                              > that are
                                                                                                                                                                              > multi-colored,
                                                                                                                                                                              > and have
                                                                                                                                                                              > short fins and rounded tails and, yes, you
                                                                                                                                                                              > can actually get
                                                                                                                                                                              > those
                                                                                                                                                                              > fish also.
                                                                                                                                                                              > They have as much right to be called bettas
                                                                                                                                                                              > as the fancy
                                                                                                                                                                              > varieties
                                                                                                                                                                              > do also.
                                                                                                                                                                              > Are they the same fish? They sure are, but
                                                                                                                                                                              > that steel blue
                                                                                                                                                                              > betta you
                                                                                                                                                                              > bought
                                                                                                                                                                              > in a bowl at the fish place has been bred
                                                                                                                                                                              > from that wild stock
                                                                                                                                                                              > to
                                                                                                                                                                              > look as
                                                                                                                                                                              > they do. However, to the scientist they are
                                                                                                                                                                              > the same fish,
                                                                                                                                                                              > probably
                                                                                                                                                                              > not even
                                                                                                                                                                              > worth a sub species designation.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > If you are serious about this hobby, you will
                                                                                                                                                                              > learn
                                                                                                                                                                              === message truncated ===




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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11320 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: helfrich firefish
                                                                                                                                                                              that is the helfrichs fire fish. they are extremely
                                                                                                                                                                              hardy, but also very rare. they will often run in
                                                                                                                                                                              excess of $200, if not even up to $300.00. it is a
                                                                                                                                                                              gorgeous fish, but a rarity. it's counterparts the
                                                                                                                                                                              fire fish (red) are around 10 -15 dollars and purple
                                                                                                                                                                              is around 30. anything with taht many colors is going
                                                                                                                                                                              to be $. lmao
                                                                                                                                                                              --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              > anyone have one of these? if so, do you recall how
                                                                                                                                                                              > much you paid & where you got it? i want to get
                                                                                                                                                                              > one for my sw tank but honestly cannot justify
                                                                                                                                                                              > $180!!
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                              >




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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11321 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
                                                                                                                                                                              10,000k is teh amount of output, not the wattage of
                                                                                                                                                                              the bulb. it is a kelvin measure. you can get a
                                                                                                                                                                              10,000 k bulb anywhere from 11 to 48 inches easily.
                                                                                                                                                                              --- r_ohle@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                              > Anyone know how many watts is a 10K bulb?
                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                              > red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11322 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                              there is no such things a s speeding up teh cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                              you may help out by adding bacteria to help cope with
                                                                                                                                                                              teh ammonia being introduced, butit still takes time
                                                                                                                                                                              for the bacteria to colonize the system.
                                                                                                                                                                              --- Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > great, I could try speeding up the cycle by adding
                                                                                                                                                                              > the filter sponge from my other tank too.
                                                                                                                                                                              > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > A few inches is actually good, since the gravel is
                                                                                                                                                                              > actually your filter
                                                                                                                                                                              > media.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Emily Tenczar wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > I did add some gravel already, but I think I could
                                                                                                                                                                              > bring in some more.
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Is a few inches of gravel too much for a UGF?? I
                                                                                                                                                                              > wanted a deeper
                                                                                                                                                                              > > substrate in the new planted tank because the
                                                                                                                                                                              > goldfish like to dig up
                                                                                                                                                                              > > plants.
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > */Trevor /* wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Why should it matter whether she's using a UGF in
                                                                                                                                                                              > both tanks? The
                                                                                                                                                                              > > gravel from the established tank should have
                                                                                                                                                                              > bacteria in it no matter
                                                                                                                                                                              > > what kind of filter she's using (or even if she
                                                                                                                                                                              > weren't using a
                                                                                                                                                                              > > filter).
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo"
                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > type of filtration in your other tank--the
                                                                                                                                                                              > UGF--you can take
                                                                                                                                                                              > > some of the
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > substrate from that tank and place it in the new
                                                                                                                                                                              > tank to add to your
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > bacterial colonies.
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                              > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                              > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                                                                              > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                                                                              > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                                              > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11323 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants and Light
                                                                                                                                                                              yes it would
                                                                                                                                                                              --- angelasjenkins@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > Sorry to be a pain, but would this be better?
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > This is Bran New in the box Odyssea 24" 28 Watt T5
                                                                                                                                                                              > High Output Fluorescent Dual Light Strip.
                                                                                                                                                                              > This is an Odyssea T5 Dual light strip, which has 2
                                                                                                                                                                              > 21� 24W bulbs. One bulb is a 12000K-day bulb and the
                                                                                                                                                                              > other is a blue Actinic bulb. These bulbs are only
                                                                                                                                                                              > 5/8 in diameter and produce twice as much brightness
                                                                                                                                                                              > as a regular fluorescent bulb. This unit also comes
                                                                                                                                                                              > with the mounting legs if you prefer not to set it
                                                                                                                                                                              > on your tank. This unit comes in a sleek black
                                                                                                                                                                              > housing and has one switch, an acrylic shield
                                                                                                                                                                              > protects the bulbs. I only have a limited supply and
                                                                                                                                                                              > at this price they wont last long.
                                                                                                                                                                              > The Dimensions are: 28" X 4" X 2"
                                                                                                                                                                              > In Cont US $9.95 s/h.
                                                                                                                                                                              > $19.95 to Canada (Add a extra $5 if you perfer USPS
                                                                                                                                                                              > as the shipping method)
                                                                                                                                                                              > Ships best available Ground service 2-7 working
                                                                                                                                                                              > days.
                                                                                                                                                                              > Extra $4 for USPS to APO, HI, AK, PR, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                              > Item is shipped out within 24 hours of received
                                                                                                                                                                              > payment.
                                                                                                                                                                              > Paypal and money order preferred, all accepted!
                                                                                                                                                                              > Combine with our other auctions to save on shipping!
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > To see my other auctions,
                                                                                                                                                                              > Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                              > Angela
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                              > Your 20 gallon would have approx 16 gallon of water.
                                                                                                                                                                              > 16x3 = 48watts :-) It surely would help....
                                                                                                                                                                              > try and maintain 3 watts per gallon and you should
                                                                                                                                                                              > be ok. I'd also get some nourish tabs or other
                                                                                                                                                                              > plant additive to add to the substrate so the planst
                                                                                                                                                                              > will have the nutrients they'll need with extra light...



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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11324 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Another Cycling Question
                                                                                                                                                                              a 10 gallon tank uses 10 #'s of gravel, so 1 cup would
                                                                                                                                                                              not do much at all.lol. if all of those filters were
                                                                                                                                                                              from teh original set up and were kept in tank water
                                                                                                                                                                              (pads) during transport and resetup...i would expect
                                                                                                                                                                              it to be ready in 2 weeks
                                                                                                                                                                              --- pamphetteplace <pamphetteplace@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > Hi Guys
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I have a question for all you guys that have wayyyy
                                                                                                                                                                              > more
                                                                                                                                                                              > knowledge/experience than me (which is anybody that
                                                                                                                                                                              > has been keepin'
                                                                                                                                                                              > fish for more than 8 months....lol
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I set up my second 55 having bought it from a
                                                                                                                                                                              > friend. The tank was
                                                                                                                                                                              > well cycled had 3 filters, ugf, magnum 350 and a
                                                                                                                                                                              > penguin with a huge
                                                                                                                                                                              > biowheel....I threw in a well seeded huge sponge
                                                                                                                                                                              > filter from my
                                                                                                                                                                              > other 55. I used all his natural brown/tan pea
                                                                                                                                                                              > gravel rinsing it
                                                                                                                                                                              > gently in dechlorinated water.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > So I am wondering when or IF I should expect any
                                                                                                                                                                              > spikes or should I
                                                                                                                                                                              > consider this tank pretty well cycled? I know I
                                                                                                                                                                              > tried to seed a 10
                                                                                                                                                                              > gal tank recently...using a cup of gravel, water
                                                                                                                                                                              > from a cycled tank
                                                                                                                                                                              > and a used gently washed filter pad. This did not
                                                                                                                                                                              > work at all for
                                                                                                                                                                              > me.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > HFK
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Pam
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11325 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                              quite the opposite. a non ugf gravel bed has much
                                                                                                                                                                              less oxygen going through it by means of water passing
                                                                                                                                                                              through it. in fact it is still, and would be backed
                                                                                                                                                                              with nitrogen rich waste poroducts and pockets of non
                                                                                                                                                                              benneficial bacteria.
                                                                                                                                                                              --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > My theory is that the gravel in a non-UGF tank is
                                                                                                                                                                              > going to have more of
                                                                                                                                                                              > the beneficial bacteria in it than the filter itself
                                                                                                                                                                              > is.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > because there are different types of bacteria.
                                                                                                                                                                              > > bacteria living above a ugf constatntly have water
                                                                                                                                                                              > > being pulled over them, being exposed to more
                                                                                                                                                                              > oxygen
                                                                                                                                                                              > > and food. without this condition they may die off
                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- Trevor <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Why should it matter whether she's using a UGF
                                                                                                                                                                              > in
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > both tanks? The
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > gravel from the established tank should have
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > bacteria in it no matter
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > what kind of filter she's using (or even if she
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > weren't using a filter).
                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve
                                                                                                                                                                              > Szabo"
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > type of filtration in your other tank--the
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > UGF--you can take some of the
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > substrate from that tank and place it in the
                                                                                                                                                                              > new
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > tank to add to your
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > bacterial colonies.
                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11326 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: pacu problems
                                                                                                                                                                              amquel and amquel plus both come in pond size...one
                                                                                                                                                                              gallon jugs
                                                                                                                                                                              --- r_ohle@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > What are you using to declorinate & remove
                                                                                                                                                                              > chlorimines (sp?) that comes in
                                                                                                                                                                              > "pond size"
                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                              > red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11327 From: paul helms Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: live rock
                                                                                                                                                                              be careful ordeing on line. i have 2 new customers
                                                                                                                                                                              who did that recently only to regret it. one got a
                                                                                                                                                                              mantis shrimp in the rock which broke their tank and
                                                                                                                                                                              the other got a small octopus which ate their gobies
                                                                                                                                                                              lol. i am not trying to push yuou towards a store as
                                                                                                                                                                              i don't even know where you are from, but usually rock
                                                                                                                                                                              in a store has been cured for at least 2 week, if not
                                                                                                                                                                              longer and will have seen any bad hitch hikers before
                                                                                                                                                                              hand
                                                                                                                                                                              --- mrevilcoyote <mrevilcoyote@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > Anyone have any good places to get live rock or fish
                                                                                                                                                                              > online...Ive
                                                                                                                                                                              > looked at www.thatfishplace.com and like thier
                                                                                                                                                                              > prices, compared to
                                                                                                                                                                              > local. here locally its VERY VERY expensive. Just
                                                                                                                                                                              > wondering if anyone
                                                                                                                                                                              > would give me input whether good or bad to online
                                                                                                                                                                              > purchase of fish.
                                                                                                                                                                              > Ya can email me direct so not to fill boards up....
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                              > Scott
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11328 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Introduction/african dwarf frogs
                                                                                                                                                                              I have a 29 gallon and have tons of those lil frogs.. they go to the top just fine.. but a trick that I like to do just cause I like to see them in odd places is that I have a mag float that I keep right at the top water level were 3 or so usually pile on there.. they also float on pieces of lettuce I have out for my snails... or having plants right again's the walls of the aquarium make good spots for the to pin themselves against  they tank they love it for some reason lol Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                              hi michele, welcome to our humble fish group. i hope you enjoy yourself here.

                                                                                                                                                                              i have one question for you. how tall is your tank? i ask because from what i've read, african
                                                                                                                                                                              dwarf frogs usually need a fairly short tank so that they can get to the top for air. i can't
                                                                                                                                                                              remember what the height limit is but i think your 29 might be too tall for them to get to air
                                                                                                                                                                              often enough. but perhaps someone else could have a different opinion on this. paul? pat? anyone
                                                                                                                                                                              else have an idea on this?

                                                                                                                                                                              please don't think i'm trying to flame you or be negative, i just am a little concerned your cute
                                                                                                                                                                              little froggies might not be getting all the air they need.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11329 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/9/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                              Try www.seahorses.com ( aquatic bookstore)

                                                                                                                                                                              If anyone has it It would probally be Jim....

                                                                                                                                                                              rob
                                                                                                                                                                              Indiana



                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/9/2005 9:24:59 PM US Eastern Standard Time, steve@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                              It would take me to have the time to do the work, which is why it is still
                                                                                                                                                                              sitting on 5.25" disks, and I don't see the time coming up real soon.

                                                                                                                                                                              You may be able to find a copy of it by haunting used book places that
                                                                                                                                                                              specialize in aquatic publications, but I suspect copies are few and far
                                                                                                                                                                              between.

                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//


                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11330 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                              "an American Fish Guy", from his signature.


                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 1:30 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters

                                                                                                                                                                              what is AAfG?
                                                                                                                                                                              --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              > Nan,
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I can't recall specifically--it was an off shoot of
                                                                                                                                                                              > another thread. I'd have
                                                                                                                                                                              > to go back through my messages to find it. However,
                                                                                                                                                                              > it has made for an
                                                                                                                                                                              > interesting discussion, and, despite what Patrick,
                                                                                                                                                                              > (AAFG) thinks, it is a
                                                                                                                                                                              > tried and true system.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I'll answer the rest off list.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 9:11 PM
                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I would be interested in that disk, if it would
                                                                                                                                                                              > convert to Corel WP?
                                                                                                                                                                              > Anyway, I apologize for being......snotty?*chuckle*
                                                                                                                                                                              > I have made myself a
                                                                                                                                                                              > new rule of not answering email late at night
                                                                                                                                                                              > anymore..*LOL* None the less,
                                                                                                                                                                              > others might not have been aware of it, so if
                                                                                                                                                                              > nothing else I have
                                                                                                                                                                              > participated in educating someone out there..*LOL*
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I was wondering...........what started the whole
                                                                                                                                                                              > thing about scientific
                                                                                                                                                                              > names, etc???*LOL*
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Nan,
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > I am well aware of the different betta species. I
                                                                                                                                                                              > participated in
                                                                                                                                                                              > the first
                                                                                                                                                                              > publication on the "wild" betta species. Since that
                                                                                                                                                                              > was written back
                                                                                                                                                                              > in the
                                                                                                                                                                              > late 70's, there have been many more betta species
                                                                                                                                                                              > found and
                                                                                                                                                                              > described. I
                                                                                                                                                                              > did think about that in writing my post, but
                                                                                                                                                                              > decided to forego that
                                                                                                                                                                              > as
                                                                                                                                                                              > adding more complexity to the arguments and the
                                                                                                                                                                              > fact that a lot of
                                                                                                                                                                              > people
                                                                                                                                                                              > here now the varieties of _Betta splendens_ but not
                                                                                                                                                                              > the actual
                                                                                                                                                                              > progenitor of
                                                                                                                                                                              > the varieties.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > BTW, I still have the original text of the wild
                                                                                                                                                                              > betta species
                                                                                                                                                                              > manuscript on
                                                                                                                                                                              > disk around here somewhere--in WordStar format.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 2:16 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > All that is fine and dandy, Steve, however, you did
                                                                                                                                                                              > make a mistake
                                                                                                                                                                              > with the
                                                                                                                                                                              > bettas. There are several different types of
                                                                                                                                                                              > Bettas in the Betta
                                                                                                                                                                              > Species,
                                                                                                                                                                              > and B. Splendas came from wild b. splendas, the
                                                                                                                                                                              > variation of color
                                                                                                                                                                              > comes
                                                                                                                                                                              > from that. But if you look around the web (and if
                                                                                                                                                                              > it wasn't after
                                                                                                                                                                              > 2 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                              > as I write this I would site them myself) there are
                                                                                                                                                                              > several
                                                                                                                                                                              > classifications
                                                                                                                                                                              > for different types or species of the bettas. Just
                                                                                                                                                                              > letting you
                                                                                                                                                                              > know............oh, and btw. they each have their
                                                                                                                                                                              > own scientific
                                                                                                                                                                              > name as
                                                                                                                                                                              > well.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > First of all, taxonomy is not a joke. It is a
                                                                                                                                                                              > way of
                                                                                                                                                                              > classifying
                                                                                                                                                                              > every
                                                                                                                                                                              > living thing on this planet (at least on this
                                                                                                                                                                              > planet for now).
                                                                                                                                                                              > Secondly, the
                                                                                                                                                                              > names are NOT Latin. They are a mix of Latin,
                                                                                                                                                                              > Greek, and many
                                                                                                                                                                              > other
                                                                                                                                                                              > languages. They are known as scientific
                                                                                                                                                                              > names, and they follow
                                                                                                                                                                              > fairly strict
                                                                                                                                                                              > rules when naming an organism. Thirdly,
                                                                                                                                                                              > unlike common names,
                                                                                                                                                                              > say,
                                                                                                                                                                              > neon
                                                                                                                                                                              > tetra, for example, which may actually refer
                                                                                                                                                                              > to several
                                                                                                                                                                              > distinct
                                                                                                                                                                              > fish, there
                                                                                                                                                                              > is a mechanism for tracking name changes
                                                                                                                                                                              > called synonyms.
                                                                                                                                                                              > _Paracheirodon
                                                                                                                                                                              > innesi_ is the "real" neon tetra, named after
                                                                                                                                                                              > William T.
                                                                                                                                                                              > Innes, BTW,
                                                                                                                                                                              > was
                                                                                                                                                                              > formerly known as _Hyphessobrycon innesi_.
                                                                                                                                                                              > The change of the
                                                                                                                                                                              > scientific name
                                                                                                                                                                              > was made when further studies showed that the
                                                                                                                                                                              > fish differed
                                                                                                                                                                              > from
                                                                                                                                                                              > those other
                                                                                                                                                                              > fish in the _Hyphessobrycon_ genus to rate a
                                                                                                                                                                              > genus of their
                                                                                                                                                                              > own. All
                                                                                                                                                                              > nice
                                                                                                                                                                              > and neat, the whole thing is.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Oh, what are the other fish that have been
                                                                                                                                                                              > commonly known as
                                                                                                                                                                              > neon
                                                                                                                                                                              > tetras?
                                                                                                                                                                              > _Paracheirodon axelrodi_ is one, mostly known
                                                                                                                                                                              > as the cardinal
                                                                                                                                                                              > tetra
                                                                                                                                                                              > (and
                                                                                                                                                                              > named after Herbert Axelrod, and
                                                                                                                                                                              > _Paracheirodon simulans_,
                                                                                                                                                                              > which is
                                                                                                                                                                              > also
                                                                                                                                                                              > known as the green neon tetra because it
                                                                                                                                                                              > lacks any red
                                                                                                                                                                              > coloration.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > The betta you refer to is a whole other
                                                                                                                                                                              > story. The ones people
                                                                                                                                                                              > think
                                                                                                                                                                              > of are
                                                                                                                                                                              > the long finned variety with a great number
                                                                                                                                                                              > of colors to chose
                                                                                                                                                                              > from.
                                                                                                                                                                              > These
                                                                                                                                                                              > are descended from a "wild" stock of fish
                                                                                                                                                                              > that are
                                                                                                                                                                              > multi-colored,
                                                                                                                                                                              > and have
                                                                                                                                                                              > short fins and rounded tails and, yes, you
                                                                                                                                                                              > can actually get
                                                                                                                                                                              > those
                                                                                                                                                                              > fish also.
                                                                                                                                                                              > They have as much right to be called bettas
                                                                                                                                                                              > as the fancy
                                                                                                                                                                              > varieties
                                                                                                                                                                              > do also.
                                                                                                                                                                              > Are they the same fish? They sure are, but
                                                                                                                                                                              > that steel blue
                                                                                                                                                                              > betta you
                                                                                                                                                                              > bought
                                                                                                                                                                              > in a bowl at the fish place has been bred
                                                                                                                                                                              > from that wild stock
                                                                                                                                                                              > to
                                                                                                                                                                              > look as
                                                                                                                                                                              > they do. However, to the scientist they are
                                                                                                                                                                              > the same fish,
                                                                                                                                                                              > probably
                                                                                                                                                                              > not even
                                                                                                                                                                              > worth a sub species designation.
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > If you are serious about this hobby, you will
                                                                                                                                                                              > learn
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11331 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                              Nan,

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Pumping CO2 in a tank with a bubbler is a total waste. Bubbler will remove the excess CO2 back into the atmosphere. If you do want to push CO2 in a tank, then do it on the one without the bubbler or switch off the bubbler on this one.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: 10 May 2005 00:33
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              So which is it?  I am building the DIY CO2, and I have a bubbler in my tank, so should I do it in a different tank that has no bubbler or use the one with the bubbler?  Thanks.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              nan
                                                                                                                                                                              Nimish Mathur < nimmat4@... > wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              Bruce,

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              You are correct in a way that surface agitation does get rid of excess CO2 from the water. But it still has to settle an equilibrium with the CO2 concentration in the air? It cannot rid the water if 100% CO2 and if a water has zero CO2, surface agitation will add some CO2 to the water to make this equilibrium. I dont really know what the equation for the equilibrium is, but it does work.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bruce Hansen
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: 08 May 2005 04:36
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              My understanding has always been that agitation of the surface caused CO2 to be lost from solution and increased oxygen solution, although of course the 2 processes are essentially independent.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Cheers

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Bruce (Hansen)

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              ANGFA (Qld) Inc - http://www.angfaqld.org.au/

                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 9:33 AM

                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Bit confusion here I think.

                                                                                                                                                                              Dissolved CO2 in the water is governed partially by PH or vice versa but that is when the equilibrium between the atmosphere and water is not maintained. When we talk about calculating how much CO2 is in the water, this CO2 we are talking about is the one that is in transition between CO2+H2O and the carbonic acid. The pure Co2 dissolving capacity of water is not really 100% governed by PH I think. Temperature however can have a major governing factor on this.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              I am not a chemist either so I am also looking forward to everyones views on this J

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                                                              From: Fish Bloke [mailto:fishbloke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: 09 April 2005 06:08
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Fair enough.  I am here to learn, can you expand.  Was everything I said wrong, or just that bit.  :^)

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Phil.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                              From: Liz Wilhite

                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 1:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              On Apr 8, 2005 7:22 PM, Fish Bloke <fishbloke@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              I am no chemist, but I think the idea of pH having a bearing on how much CO2 water can hold is wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              I am a Ph.D. chemist.  You are dead wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Liz

                                                                                                                                                                               



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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11332 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Lighting conversion

                                                                                                                                                                              Slight correction Paul, if you don’t mind!.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              10,000K or the Light Temperature has nothing to do with wattage. It determines what type of light it is based on the spectrum and wavelengths of the light. It’s a generalization to avoid going into severe details of a light like: Amounts of wavelengths of different types, Intensities of different wavelength, combinations of different spectrum etc.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Wattage is something that is related to the power of a bulb., You can have a 10,000K bulb ranging from 2W LED to 40W T8s to 5000W Halides. Only difference is that these bulbs will emit different intensities of light that is similar in appearance/wavelength/spectrum.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: 10 May 2005 06:37
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting conversion

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              10,000k is teh amount of output, not the wattage of
                                                                                                                                                                              the bulb.  it is a kelvin measure.  you can get a
                                                                                                                                                                              10,000 k bulb anywhere from 11 to 48 inches easily.
                                                                                                                                                                              --- r_ohle@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                              > Anyone know how many watts is a 10K bulb?
                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                              > red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >


                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                              Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                                                                                                              Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11333 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                                              Development of chloroplasts is based on the nutrients it needs. Trace elements (including magnesium), Carbon and light are I think the only nutrients that effect chloroplasts. If a plant is losing chloroplasts, it means, either it is lacking in light, or CO2 or in magnesium. It is fairly easy to judge as to what is missing by looking at a tank setup.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Nicolas Munro
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: 10 May 2005 05:31
                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Better yet... tell me how to solve a lack of them?


                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                              From: <r_ohle@...>
                                                                                                                                                                              To: < AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 4:19 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants CO2?


                                                                                                                                                                              > Ok I'll bite.
                                                                                                                                                                              > Can you say what chloroplasts are?
                                                                                                                                                                              > red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > At 09:21 PM 5/8/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              >>what is your lightiung situation btw? elodia is a low
                                                                                                                                                                              >>light plant but does best under 2 watts per gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                              >>if it is turning yellow it is losing chloroplasts
                                                                                                                                                                              >>--- Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              >> > I went to a different LFS on the weekend which had a
                                                                                                                                                                              >> > lot of nice looking plants.The LFS's Elodia was very
                                                                                                                                                                              >> > very dark green.
                                                                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                              > .
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                                                                                                                                                                              > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
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                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11334 From: TankGurl Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Newbie with lots of questions!
                                                                                                                                                                              > Hawkeye 10 Gallon seamless acrylic

                                                                                                                                                                              > A total of roughly 18-19. Most are small.

                                                                                                                                                                              That's far too many fish for a 10 gallon. You could go with 5 max. for
                                                                                                                                                                              that size of tank. Remember, you need to figure in the max. length of
                                                                                                                                                                              all the fish when full grown. I have 18 fish in a 65 gallon and that's
                                                                                                                                                                              the max for the fish I keep.

                                                                                                                                                                              > What temp should I put it?

                                                                                                                                                                              Depends on the type of fish a temp. requirements.


                                                                                                                                                                              > I saw a battery operated gravel vac I thought I would get. Along
                                                                                                                                                                              > with the filter, would that be enough to clean? How often should I
                                                                                                                                                                              > use the vac?

                                                                                                                                                                              Personally, I'd go with the cheaper hose version for tank changes and
                                                                                                                                                                              cleaning. You'll need t0 do a 20% water change every 2 weeks at the
                                                                                                                                                                              very least.

                                                                                                                                                                              > How often should I feed them all and how much?

                                                                                                                                                                              Enough that all the food is gone within 2 mins. 2x a day.

                                                                                                                                                                              I really recommend that you do some research into the needs and size
                                                                                                                                                                              of the fish you want to keep for better success.

                                                                                                                                                                              Kelly
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11335 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                              The top layer, at least, should have more beneficial bacteria than the
                                                                                                                                                                              filter, since it has more surface area. I've added gravel from my
                                                                                                                                                                              biggest tank when I've set up tubs to put outside for the summer
                                                                                                                                                                              (without filters) and never had any ammonia or nitrite spikes.

                                                                                                                                                                              - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                              paul helms wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              > quite the opposite. a non ugf gravel bed has much
                                                                                                                                                                              > less oxygen going through it by means of water passing
                                                                                                                                                                              > through it. in fact it is still, and would be backed
                                                                                                                                                                              > with nitrogen rich waste poroducts and pockets of non
                                                                                                                                                                              > benneficial bacteria.
                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Trevor Holyoak <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > > My theory is that the gravel in a non-UGF tank is
                                                                                                                                                                              > > going to have more of
                                                                                                                                                                              > > the beneficial bacteria in it than the filter itself
                                                                                                                                                                              > > is.
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > because there are different types of bacteria.
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > bacteria living above a ugf constatntly have water
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > being pulled over them, being exposed to more
                                                                                                                                                                              > > oxygen
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > and food. without this condition they may die off
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > --- Trevor <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Why should it matter whether she's using a UGF
                                                                                                                                                                              > > in
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > both tanks? The
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > gravel from the established tank should have
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > bacteria in it no matter
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > what kind of filter she's using (or even if she
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > weren't using a filter).
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Szabo"
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > type of filtration in your other tank--the
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > UGF--you can take some of the
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > substrate from that tank and place it in the
                                                                                                                                                                              > > new
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > tank to add to your
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > bacterial colonies.
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11336 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                              But the filter has water with a lot more O2 in it, so a lot more bacteria can live in the filter than in the gravel, even on the very top layer of gravel.  There is just no way for the lower level of the water to have as much O2 as the filter because the filter's water chamber has a lot of surface area (this may not be true for cannister filters, but it is for all the hob power filters I've seen).  A filter with a biowheel or sponge (especially a sponge) has a lot of surface area in it too. 
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                              The top layer, at least, should have more beneficial bacteria than the
                                                                                                                                                                              filter, since it has more surface area. I've added gravel from my
                                                                                                                                                                              biggest tank when I've set up tubs to put outside for the summer
                                                                                                                                                                              (without filters) and never had any ammonia or nitrite spikes.
                                                                                                                                                                              - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                              Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11337 From: valbogert01 Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Dropsy Question
                                                                                                                                                                              I am now down another fish. My last endlers guppy developed Dropsy
                                                                                                                                                                              almost overnight. I had to put him down because he was too far gone.
                                                                                                                                                                              Should I be concerned about the other fish? I have been doing a water
                                                                                                                                                                              change every weekend and have gotten my levels stable finally.
                                                                                                                                                                              I am just worried that they will all die off one by on.

                                                                                                                                                                              Val
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11338 From: joequality1980 Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
                                                                                                                                                                              also, the measure of kelvin determines how bright you can get your
                                                                                                                                                                              tank. For example, 5,500K is like early morning light, whereas 6,700K
                                                                                                                                                                              is like daylight in the afternoon, under a clear blue sky. It's a
                                                                                                                                                                              matter of preference

                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > 10,000k is teh amount of output, not the wattage of
                                                                                                                                                                              > the bulb. it is a kelvin measure. you can get a
                                                                                                                                                                              > 10,000 k bulb anywhere from 11 to 48 inches easily.
                                                                                                                                                                              > --- r_ohle@p... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Anyone know how many watts is a 10K bulb?
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                              > > red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11339 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Have LR and Protein Skimmer for Sale
                                                                                                                                                                              I have about 10 pounds of LR and a Berlin Airlift 90 (1 month old skimmer)

                                                                                                                                                                              I am asking (depending on zip code) $50 shipped for both.

                                                                                                                                                                              Plz let me know.
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11340 From: joequality1980 Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: livebearer fry
                                                                                                                                                                              at what age/length would it be safe to introduce swordtail fry back
                                                                                                                                                                              into the main tank? They were born 2/24, and are now about 1/2" long.
                                                                                                                                                                              In my main tank are 3 adult swords and an angel that might get hungry
                                                                                                                                                                              for them. There is a fair amount of plants available for cover too
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11341 From: dumont53 Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Daily Digests and Viruses
                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                No it was not a virus I posted the DIGEST so all could see exactly was being sent to me 2 0r 3 times daily.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                And yes I am not a "Troll". I have been keeping and breeding Fish for about 20 years. I am 70 years old retired and a Moderator in another group (Not Tropical Fish) I am also a Officer in a large Fraternal Organization. Also a Metal Detectorist and if that is not enough a Ham Radio Licensee.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                I was only trying to see if maybe we could clean the digest up a bit to make it more readable for those that are interested in reading all the posts.
                                                                                                                                                                                Apparently a number of you are so narrow minded that you feel everyone is out to do harm.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                What a shame that you can't see that what I was trying to do was make this a better group.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                OH Well!!!! At least I can say I tried. In the mean time a no longer get digests, so I solved my own problem.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                John in Nevada
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11342 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Daily Digests and Viruses ( OT )

                                                                                                                                                                                CQ CQ ...CQ DX

                                                                                                                                                                                I miss my radio...

                                                                                                                                                                                Rob
                                                                                                                                                                                Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                                via Oregon State





                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 5/10/2005 12:51:04 PM US Eastern Standard Time, dumont53@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                                No it was not a virus I posted the DIGEST so all could see exactly was being sent to me 2 0r 3 times daily.


                                                                                                                                                                                And yes I am not a "Troll". I have been keeping and breeding Fish for about 20 years. I am 70 years old retired and a Moderator in another group (Not Tropical Fish) I am also a Officer in a large Fraternal Organization. Also a Metal Detectorist and if that is not enough a Ham Radio Licensee.

                                                                                                                                                                                I was only trying to see if maybe we could clean the digest up a bit to make it more readable for those that are interested in reading all the posts.
                                                                                                                                                                                Apparently a number of you are so narrow minded that you feel everyone is out to do harm.

                                                                                                                                                                                What a shame that you can't see that what I was trying to do was make this a better group.

                                                                                                                                                                                OH Well!!!! At least I can say I tried. In the mean time a no longer get digests, so I solved my own problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                John in Nevada


                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11343 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Daily Digests and Viruses ( OT )
                                                                                                                                                                                I've noticed that there are a couple of other hams on the list.
                                                                                                                                                                                Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to put the time, effort, and
                                                                                                                                                                                money into more than one hobby at a time - when I pay more attention to
                                                                                                                                                                                my fish, my ham radio activity slacks off (I've been pretty inactive in
                                                                                                                                                                                it for a while now). :D

                                                                                                                                                                                Anyway, it might have been helpful, John, if you had provided your
                                                                                                                                                                                explanation in the message when you forwarded the digest. My wife seems
                                                                                                                                                                                to think I should be able to read minds (at least hers) but I just don't
                                                                                                                                                                                seem to have the knack. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                                FortWayneFish@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > CQ CQ ...CQ DX
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I miss my radio...
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Rob
                                                                                                                                                                                > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                                > via Oregon State
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > In a message dated 5/10/2005 12:51:04 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                > dumont53@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >> No it was not a virus I posted the DIGEST so all could see exactly
                                                                                                                                                                                >> was being sent to me 2 0r 3 times daily.
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >> And yes I am not a "Troll". I have been keeping and breeding Fish for
                                                                                                                                                                                >> about 20 years. I am 70 years old retired and a Moderator in another
                                                                                                                                                                                >> group (Not Tropical Fish) I am also a Officer in a large Fraternal
                                                                                                                                                                                >> Organization. Also a Metal Detectorist and if that is not enough a
                                                                                                                                                                                >> Ham Radio Licensee.
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >> I was only trying to see if maybe we could clean the digest up a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                >> to make it more readable for those that are interested in reading all
                                                                                                                                                                                >> the posts.
                                                                                                                                                                                >> Apparently a number of you are so narrow minded that you feel
                                                                                                                                                                                >> everyone is out to do harm.
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >> What a shame that you can't see that what I was trying to do was make
                                                                                                                                                                                >> this a better group.
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >> OH Well!!!! At least I can say I tried. In the mean time a no longer
                                                                                                                                                                                >> get digests, so I solved my own problem.
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >> John in Nevada
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11344 From: paul helms Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                al ot less surface area overall, buyt more exposed to
                                                                                                                                                                                actual 02 instead of dissolved o2. there will be more
                                                                                                                                                                                bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrite on the
                                                                                                                                                                                biowhell and more of the others in the gravel
                                                                                                                                                                                --- "Patrick, American Fish Guy"
                                                                                                                                                                                <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > But the filter has water with a lot more O2 in it,
                                                                                                                                                                                > so a lot more bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                > can live in the filter than in the gravel, even on
                                                                                                                                                                                > the very top layer of
                                                                                                                                                                                > gravel. There is just no way for the lower level of
                                                                                                                                                                                > the water to have as
                                                                                                                                                                                > much O2 as the filter because the filter's water
                                                                                                                                                                                > chamber has a lot of
                                                                                                                                                                                > surface area (this may not be true for cannister
                                                                                                                                                                                > filters, but it is for all
                                                                                                                                                                                > the hob power filters I've seen). A filter with a
                                                                                                                                                                                > biowheel or sponge
                                                                                                                                                                                > (especially a sponge) has a lot of surface area in
                                                                                                                                                                                > it too.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank
                                                                                                                                                                                > stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                                > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                > The top layer, at least, should have more beneficial
                                                                                                                                                                                > bacteria than the
                                                                                                                                                                                > filter, since it has more surface area. I've added
                                                                                                                                                                                > gravel from my
                                                                                                                                                                                > biggest tank when I've set up tubs to put outside
                                                                                                                                                                                > for the summer
                                                                                                                                                                                > (without filters) and never had any ammonia or
                                                                                                                                                                                > nitrite spikes.
                                                                                                                                                                                > - Trevor



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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11345 From: paul helms Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
                                                                                                                                                                                ok...i know tha, just keeping it simple.
                                                                                                                                                                                --- Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > Slight correction Paul, if you don't mind!.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > 10,000K or the Light Temperature has nothing to do
                                                                                                                                                                                > with wattage. It
                                                                                                                                                                                > determines what type of light it is based on the
                                                                                                                                                                                > spectrum and wavelengths of
                                                                                                                                                                                > the light. It's a generalization to avoid going into
                                                                                                                                                                                > severe details of a
                                                                                                                                                                                > light like: Amounts of wavelengths of different
                                                                                                                                                                                > types, Intensities of
                                                                                                                                                                                > different wavelength, combinations of different
                                                                                                                                                                                > spectrum etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Wattage is something that is related to the power of
                                                                                                                                                                                > a bulb., You can have a
                                                                                                                                                                                > 10,000K bulb ranging from 2W LED to 40W T8s to 5000W
                                                                                                                                                                                > Halides. Only
                                                                                                                                                                                > difference is that these bulbs will emit different
                                                                                                                                                                                > intensities of light that
                                                                                                                                                                                > is similar in appearance/wavelength/spectrum.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > _____
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                > Sent: 10 May 2005 06:37
                                                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting conversion
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > 10,000k is teh amount of output, not the wattage of
                                                                                                                                                                                > the bulb. it is a kelvin measure. you can get a
                                                                                                                                                                                > 10,000 k bulb anywhere from 11 to 48 inches easily.
                                                                                                                                                                                > --- r_ohle@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Anyone know how many watts is a 10K bulb?
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                > > red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                                                                                                                > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
                                                                                                                                                                                > tour:
                                                                                                                                                                                > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                                > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                                > that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                > message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > _____
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                                > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11346 From: paul helms Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                                ok...your unique abbreviations take a minute at times
                                                                                                                                                                                --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                > "an American Fish Guy", from his signature.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 1:30 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > what is AAfG?
                                                                                                                                                                                > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Nan,
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > I can't recall specifically--it was an off shoot
                                                                                                                                                                                > of
                                                                                                                                                                                > > another thread. I'd have
                                                                                                                                                                                > > to go back through my messages to find it.
                                                                                                                                                                                > However,
                                                                                                                                                                                > > it has made for an
                                                                                                                                                                                > > interesting discussion, and, despite what Patrick,
                                                                                                                                                                                > > (AAFG) thinks, it is a
                                                                                                                                                                                > > tried and true system.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > I'll answer the rest off list.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 9:11 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > I would be interested in that disk, if it would
                                                                                                                                                                                > > convert to Corel WP?
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Anyway, I apologize for
                                                                                                                                                                                > being......snotty?*chuckle*
                                                                                                                                                                                > > I have made myself a
                                                                                                                                                                                > > new rule of not answering email late at night
                                                                                                                                                                                > > anymore..*LOL* None the less,
                                                                                                                                                                                > > others might not have been aware of it, so if
                                                                                                                                                                                > > nothing else I have
                                                                                                                                                                                > > participated in educating someone out there..*LOL*
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > I was wondering...........what started the whole
                                                                                                                                                                                > > thing about scientific
                                                                                                                                                                                > > names, etc???*LOL*
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Nan,
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > I am well aware of the different betta species. I
                                                                                                                                                                                > > participated in
                                                                                                                                                                                > > the first
                                                                                                                                                                                > > publication on the "wild" betta species. Since
                                                                                                                                                                                > that
                                                                                                                                                                                > > was written back
                                                                                                                                                                                > > in the
                                                                                                                                                                                > > late 70's, there have been many more betta
                                                                                                                                                                                > species
                                                                                                                                                                                > > found and
                                                                                                                                                                                > > described. I
                                                                                                                                                                                > > did think about that in writing my post, but
                                                                                                                                                                                > > decided to forego that
                                                                                                                                                                                > > as
                                                                                                                                                                                > > adding more complexity to the arguments and the
                                                                                                                                                                                > > fact that a lot of
                                                                                                                                                                                > > people
                                                                                                                                                                                > > here now the varieties of _Betta splendens_ but
                                                                                                                                                                                > not
                                                                                                                                                                                > > the actual
                                                                                                                                                                                > > progenitor of
                                                                                                                                                                                > > the varieties.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > BTW, I still have the original text of the wild
                                                                                                                                                                                > > betta species
                                                                                                                                                                                > > manuscript on
                                                                                                                                                                                > > disk around here somewhere--in WordStar format.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 2:16 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > All that is fine and dandy, Steve, however, you
                                                                                                                                                                                > did
                                                                                                                                                                                > > make a mistake
                                                                                                                                                                                > > with the
                                                                                                                                                                                > > bettas. There are several different types of
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Bettas in the Betta
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Species,
                                                                                                                                                                                > > and B. Splendas came from wild b. splendas, the
                                                                                                                                                                                > > variation of color
                                                                                                                                                                                > > comes
                                                                                                                                                                                > > from that. But if you look around the web (and
                                                                                                                                                                                > if
                                                                                                                                                                                > > it wasn't after
                                                                                                                                                                                > > 2 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                                > > as I write this I would site them myself) there
                                                                                                                                                                                > are
                                                                                                                                                                                > > several
                                                                                                                                                                                > > classifications
                                                                                                                                                                                > > for different types or species of the bettas.
                                                                                                                                                                                > Just
                                                                                                                                                                                > > letting you
                                                                                                                                                                                > > know............oh, and btw. they each have their
                                                                                                                                                                                > > own scientific
                                                                                                                                                                                > > name as
                                                                                                                                                                                > > well.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > First of all, taxonomy is not a joke. It is
                                                                                                                                                                                > a
                                                                                                                                                                                > > way of
                                                                                                                                                                                > > classifying
                                                                                                                                                                                > > every
                                                                                                                                                                                > > living thing on this planet (at least on
                                                                                                                                                                                > this
                                                                                                                                                                                > > planet for now).
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Secondly, the
                                                                                                                                                                                > > names are NOT Latin. They are a mix of
                                                                                                                                                                                > Latin,
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Greek, and many
                                                                                                                                                                                > > other
                                                                                                                                                                                > > languages. They are known as scientific
                                                                                                                                                                                > > names, and they follow
                                                                                                                                                                                > > fairly strict
                                                                                                                                                                                > > rules when naming an organism. Thirdly,
                                                                                                                                                                                > > unlike common names,
                                                                                                                                                                                > > say,
                                                                                                                                                                                > > neon
                                                                                                                                                                                > > tetra, for example, which may actually
                                                                                                                                                                                > refer
                                                                                                                                                                                > > to several
                                                                                                                                                                                > > distinct
                                                                                                                                                                                > > fish, there
                                                                                                                                                                                > > is a mechanism for tracking name changes
                                                                                                                                                                                > > called synonyms.
                                                                                                                                                                                > > _Paracheirodon
                                                                                                                                                                                > > innesi_ is the "real" neon tetra, named
                                                                                                                                                                                > after
                                                                                                                                                                                > > William T.
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Innes, BTW,
                                                                                                                                                                                > > was
                                                                                                                                                                                > > formerly known as _Hyphessobrycon innesi_.
                                                                                                                                                                                > > The change of the
                                                                                                                                                                                > > scientific name
                                                                                                                                                                                > > was made when further studies showed that
                                                                                                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                                                                                                > > fish differed
                                                                                                                                                                                > > from
                                                                                                                                                                                > > those other
                                                                                                                                                                                > > fish in the _Hyphessobrycon_ genus to rate
                                                                                                                                                                                > a
                                                                                                                                                                                > > genus of their
                                                                                                                                                                                > > own. All
                                                                                                                                                                                > > nice
                                                                                                                                                                                > > and neat, the whole thing is.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Oh, what are the other fish that have been
                                                                                                                                                                                > > commonly known as
                                                                                                                                                                                > > neon
                                                                                                                                                                                > > tetras?
                                                                                                                                                                                > > _Paracheirodon axelrodi_ is one, mostly
                                                                                                                                                                                > known
                                                                                                                                                                                > > as the cardinal
                                                                                                                                                                                > > tetra
                                                                                                                                                                                > > (and
                                                                                                                                                                                > > named after Herbert Axelrod, and
                                                                                                                                                                                > > _Paracheirodon simulans_,
                                                                                                                                                                                > > which is
                                                                                                                                                                                > > also
                                                                                                                                                                                > > known as the green neon tetra because it
                                                                                                                                                                                > > lacks any red
                                                                                                                                                                                > > coloration.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > The betta you refer to is a whole other
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                === message truncated ===




                                                                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Mail
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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11347 From: paul helms Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Daily Digests and Viruses
                                                                                                                                                                                hey john woh the **** do you think you are? you come
                                                                                                                                                                                into a group in which you are not active and startcrap
                                                                                                                                                                                then admonish the members who are protecting
                                                                                                                                                                                themselves? get lost!
                                                                                                                                                                                --- dumont53 <dumont53@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                > No it was not a virus I posted the DIGEST so all
                                                                                                                                                                                > could see exactly was being
                                                                                                                                                                                > sent to me 2 0r 3 times daily.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > And yes I am not a "Troll". I have been keeping and
                                                                                                                                                                                > breeding Fish for about
                                                                                                                                                                                > 20 years. I am 70 years old retired and a Moderator
                                                                                                                                                                                > in another group (Not
                                                                                                                                                                                > Tropical Fish) I am also a Officer in a large
                                                                                                                                                                                > Fraternal Organization. Also a
                                                                                                                                                                                > Metal Detectorist and if that is not enough a Ham
                                                                                                                                                                                > Radio Licensee.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I was only trying to see if maybe we could clean the
                                                                                                                                                                                > digest up a bit to make
                                                                                                                                                                                > it more readable for those that are interested in
                                                                                                                                                                                > reading all the posts.
                                                                                                                                                                                > Apparently a number of you are so narrow minded that
                                                                                                                                                                                > you feel everyone is
                                                                                                                                                                                > out to do harm.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > What a shame that you can't see that what I was
                                                                                                                                                                                > trying to do was make this a
                                                                                                                                                                                > better group.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > OH Well!!!! At least I can say I tried. In the mean
                                                                                                                                                                                > time a no longer get
                                                                                                                                                                                > digests, so I solved my own problem.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > John in Nevada
                                                                                                                                                                                > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                                                                                                                                                                                > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                                                                                                                                                                                > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.8 -
                                                                                                                                                                                > Release Date: 5/10/05
                                                                                                                                                                                >




                                                                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                                                                                                                Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11348 From: kb1dva Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Daily Digests and Viruses ( OT )

                                                                                                                                                                                I know I know! - Hubby had slacked off on the radio and I went along with it too, I have too many hobbies! 

                                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Trevor Holyoak
                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 2:17 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Daily Digests and Viruses ( OT )

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                I've noticed that there are a couple of other hams on the list.
                                                                                                                                                                                Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to put the time, effort, and
                                                                                                                                                                                money into more than one hobby at a time - when I pay more attention to
                                                                                                                                                                                my fish, my ham radio activity slacks off (I've been pretty inactive in
                                                                                                                                                                                it for a while now). :D

                                                                                                                                                                                Anyway, it might have been helpful, John, if you had provided your
                                                                                                                                                                                explanation in the message when you forwarded the digest. My wife seems
                                                                                                                                                                                to think I should be able to read minds (at least hers) but I just don't
                                                                                                                                                                                seem to have the knack. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                                FortWayneFish@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > CQ CQ ...CQ DX
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I miss my radio...
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Rob
                                                                                                                                                                                > Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                                > via Oregon State
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > In a message dated 5/10/2005 12:51:04 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                > dumont53@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >> No it was not a virus I posted the DIGEST so all could see exactly
                                                                                                                                                                                >> was being sent to me 2 0r 3 times daily.
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >> And yes I am not a "Troll". I have been keeping and breeding Fish for
                                                                                                                                                                                >> about 20 years. I am 70 years old retired and a Moderator in another
                                                                                                                                                                                >> group (Not Tropical Fish) I am also a Officer in a large Fraternal
                                                                                                                                                                                >> Organization. Also a Metal Detectorist and if that is not enough a
                                                                                                                                                                                >> Ham Radio Licensee.
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >> I was only trying to see if maybe we could clean the digest up a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                >> to make it more readable for those that are interested in reading all
                                                                                                                                                                                >> the posts.
                                                                                                                                                                                >> Apparently a number of you are so narrow minded that you feel
                                                                                                                                                                                >> everyone is out to do harm.
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >> What a shame that you can't see that what I was trying to do was make
                                                                                                                                                                                >> this a better group.
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >> OH Well!!!! At least I can say I tried. In the mean time a no longer
                                                                                                                                                                                >> get digests, so I solved my own problem.
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >> John in Nevada
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11349 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: livebearer fry
                                                                                                                                                                                Angelfish are predatory but have SMALL mouths.
                                                                                                                                                                                I'd would think your fry would be big enough to add to the tank now. The plant cover should help them hide if someone decides to go hunting.

                                                                                                                                                                                Swordtails and most Livebearers should be kept 1male per 3-4 females. Male will try and breed everything and the more females to chase less aggression. As your fry grow try and limit the number of males you keep.

                                                                                                                                                                                rob
                                                                                                                                                                                indiana



                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 5/10/2005 12:47:38 PM US Eastern Standard Time, crazy.joe.walcek@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                                at what age/length would it be safe to introduce swordtail fry back
                                                                                                                                                                                into the main tank? They were born 2/24, and are now about 1/2" long.
                                                                                                                                                                                In my main tank are 3 adult swords and an angel that might get hungry
                                                                                                                                                                                for them. There is a fair amount of plants available for cover too


                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11350 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: helfrich firefish
                                                                                                                                                                                yeah, i had an orange colored firefish for awhile but it was so boring. the only time i saw the
                                                                                                                                                                                darn thing was when i first put it in the tank and it kept trying to jump out, and when i took it
                                                                                                                                                                                out to take back to the lfs to exchange it for another ocellaris.

                                                                                                                                                                                now the helfrich i would love to have, but absolutely no way in hell would i pay that kind of
                                                                                                                                                                                money for it, no matter how pretty & brightly colored! lol

                                                                                                                                                                                --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                > that is the helfrichs fire fish. they are extremely
                                                                                                                                                                                > hardy, but also very rare. they will often run in
                                                                                                                                                                                > excess of $200, if not even up to $300.00. it is a
                                                                                                                                                                                > gorgeous fish, but a rarity. it's counterparts the
                                                                                                                                                                                > fire fish (red) are around 10 -15 dollars and purple
                                                                                                                                                                                > is around 30. anything with taht many colors is going
                                                                                                                                                                                > to be $. lmao
                                                                                                                                                                                > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > anyone have one of these? if so, do you recall how
                                                                                                                                                                                > > much you paid & where you got it? i want to get
                                                                                                                                                                                > > one for my sw tank but honestly cannot justify
                                                                                                                                                                                > > $180!!
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                > Make Yahoo! your home page
                                                                                                                                                                                > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                                                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                                                                I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11351 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Newbie with lots of questions!
                                                                                                                                                                                i'm not positive about this, but i think kissing gouramis would outgrow that size tank. in that
                                                                                                                                                                                size tank i would put maybe only 1 sunset gourami (i think those are dwarfs aren't they? anyone
                                                                                                                                                                                know more about this?) and maybe the tetras. possibly the ghost shrimp too, but those would
                                                                                                                                                                                probably get eaten by the gourami.

                                                                                                                                                                                or maybe substitute the male or female betta for the gourami, plus the tetras.

                                                                                                                                                                                --- Wouldnt you like to know! <mgordon@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                > Hello! Beginning tropical fish nut here! I am wanting to start an
                                                                                                                                                                                > aquarium. I have kept bettas, tetras, etc. before, but I am kicking
                                                                                                                                                                                > into a higher gear this time. Here is the aquarium I have bought.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Hawkeye 10 Gallon seamless acrylic Aquarium Complete Kit Plus
                                                                                                                                                                                > Fluorescent Illumination, Hooded Light Fixture, Cartridge, Marineland
                                                                                                                                                                                > Mini Peguin Power Filter, Fish Net, Thermometer, Water Treatment
                                                                                                                                                                                > Length is 21" width x 11 1/2 Dia. , 17" height
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Ok! So I'm looking at putting these fish together in it:
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > 1 Male butterfly betta
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > 3-4 ghost shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > 1 glass catfish
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > 1 Sunset Gouramis
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > 2-3 Guppies
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > 4-5 Neon Tetras
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > 2 Balloon Pink Kisser Gouramis
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > 1 Gold Mystery Snail
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > possibly 1 female Betta if the male is really passive
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > A total of roughly 18-19. Most are small.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I know this is a lot. Is it too much? Can it be done without any
                                                                                                                                                                                > dying? What temp should I put it?
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I'm looking at feeding them all Tropical color enhancing flakes and
                                                                                                                                                                                > these little Betta flakes.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I'm going to get little decorative nooks so that those that want to
                                                                                                                                                                                > hide can.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I'm looking at getting plastic plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I saw a battery operated gravel vac I thought I would get. Along
                                                                                                                                                                                > with the filter, would that be enough to clean? How often should I
                                                                                                                                                                                > use the vac?
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > How often should I feed them all and how much?
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I'll get that ammonia fighting gravel and some natural stone.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I'm going to use filtered spring water from a jug for the initial
                                                                                                                                                                                > filling of the tank. I have a stable place to put it in a corner
                                                                                                                                                                                > away from the crowd and on a wooden stand.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I was thinking of starting out putting in the shrimp, snail, Balloon
                                                                                                                                                                                > Kissers, Neon Tetras and Ghost Catfish
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Then maybe in a couple weeks add the Sunset Gouramis, Betta, Guppies
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > OR start out putting in the Balloons, shrimp, catfish and snail and
                                                                                                                                                                                > then in a couple weeks put in the sunset g., guppies, betta and neon
                                                                                                                                                                                > tetras.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I probably need to get a water testing kit. Is one at Walmart good
                                                                                                                                                                                > or where? And what should the levels look like.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I know these are a ton of questions but I've looked at several pages
                                                                                                                                                                                > and haven't found quite the information I need.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I know that a 10 gal. isn't ideal for this many fish but can I get
                                                                                                                                                                                > away with it with them being reasonable comfortable?
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > If not, which ones should I eliminate from my list?
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Thank you for your time and listening to me prattle along. I really
                                                                                                                                                                                > do appreciate it and beg for advice. Pleeeeaaaasssseeee help me!
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > ~*~Star Blaze~*~
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                                                                I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11352 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
                                                                                                                                                                                i like the flame version of the dwarf gourami. very colorful and mine is doing well in my newish
                                                                                                                                                                                tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                cardinal tetras are very colorful, too. i'm not sure how hardy, though =( same with rummy-noses.
                                                                                                                                                                                the hardiest tetras i've had are my glowlights. not as colorful as cardinals and rummies, but
                                                                                                                                                                                definitely hardy!

                                                                                                                                                                                --- Richard Jolitz <emicarn@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                > Greetings All.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I am looking for some suggestions on good hardy
                                                                                                                                                                                > starter fish. I have 10 gallon tank setup and the
                                                                                                                                                                                > single fish I put in it didn't do well [betta] and has
                                                                                                                                                                                > since croaked.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Anyone have any suggestions for a good hardy community
                                                                                                                                                                                > fish that is a good starter? I've considered mollys
                                                                                                                                                                                > and/or tetras along with a betta for color.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Thanks for any help!
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Rich
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                                                                > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                                                                I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11353 From: valbogert01 Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Any info welcome
                                                                                                                                                                                One of my fish had dropsy. Will it spread??
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11354 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Dropsy Question
                                                                                                                                                                                when I got a case of dropsy I was told it really isn't contagious... I had my gourami in my tank with the others for many days before I was able to get a hospital tank so unless they catch something else I think dropsy is not a issue.. Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                I am now down another fish. My last endlers guppy developed Dropsy
                                                                                                                                                                                almost overnight. I had to put him down because he was too far gone.
                                                                                                                                                                                Should I be concerned about the other fish? I have been doing a water
                                                                                                                                                                                change every weekend and have gotten my levels stable finally.
                                                                                                                                                                                I am just worried that they will all die off one by on.

                                                                                                                                                                                Val
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11355 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Dropsy Question
                                                                                                                                                                                The one time I had a fish with dropsy, it was just that particular fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                It died of course, but none of the other fish ever showed any symptoms.

                                                                                                                                                                                - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                                agentscullyeyore@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                > when I got a case of dropsy I was told it really isn't contagious... I
                                                                                                                                                                                > had my gourami in my tank with the others for many days before I was
                                                                                                                                                                                > able to get a hospital tank so unless they catch something else I
                                                                                                                                                                                > think dropsy is not a issue.. Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I am now down another fish. My last endlers guppy developed Dropsy
                                                                                                                                                                                > almost overnight. I had to put him down because he was too far gone.
                                                                                                                                                                                > Should I be concerned about the other fish? I have been doing a water
                                                                                                                                                                                > change every weekend and have gotten my levels stable finally.
                                                                                                                                                                                > I am just worried that they will all die off one by on.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Val
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                > *Yahoo! Groups Links*
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                                > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11356 From: Patrick, American Fish Guy Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Daily Digests and Viruses
                                                                                                                                                                                    If you don't like the digest, I suggest going to no mail and looking at the home page, or getting individual messages.  I personally think the digest option was a mistake that yahoo hasn't gotten rid of yet.  It is a good idea for everybody to remove the junk from their messages though.  It can pile up and make even individual messages hard to read through.  I have gotten several from people that I couldn't find the new message because it was buried somewhere in the old messages.  I went on digest in another group to see how bad it was after I got in an argument with people who did NOT trim their messages.  I was defending those who were on digest.  What I found was that even the messages that were trimmed it was hard to sort through the digest.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                    By the way, I was correct to call you a troll, although sometimes trolling is not a bad thing if its hidden agenda is to bring about a positive outcome.  The truth is, we never know the intentions anyone has on the internet, but I tend to think the best.  Here is a definition of a troll.  I think the first part of the first definition covers you.
                                                                                                                                                                                1. A person who makes posts...that are solely intended to provoke responses from others either Socratically or to cause annoyance or offense.
                                                                                                                                                                                2. A post that is intended to incite controversy or cause offense.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11357 From: paul helms Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: helfrich firefish
                                                                                                                                                                                firefish actually belong in groups...had you gotten
                                                                                                                                                                                6-12 they would have schooled and been out front all
                                                                                                                                                                                the time. as far as the helfrichs....rarity has a
                                                                                                                                                                                high price...i would never pay that for a fish either.
                                                                                                                                                                                hell i would not pay it for a dog or any other pet
                                                                                                                                                                                either.
                                                                                                                                                                                --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > yeah, i had an orange colored firefish for awhile
                                                                                                                                                                                > but it was so boring. the only time i saw the
                                                                                                                                                                                > darn thing was when i first put it in the tank and
                                                                                                                                                                                > it kept trying to jump out, and when i took it
                                                                                                                                                                                > out to take back to the lfs to exchange it for
                                                                                                                                                                                > another ocellaris.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > now the helfrich i would love to have, but
                                                                                                                                                                                > absolutely no way in hell would i pay that kind of
                                                                                                                                                                                > money for it, no matter how pretty & brightly
                                                                                                                                                                                > colored! lol
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > that is the helfrichs fire fish. they are
                                                                                                                                                                                > extremely
                                                                                                                                                                                > > hardy, but also very rare. they will often run in
                                                                                                                                                                                > > excess of $200, if not even up to $300.00. it is
                                                                                                                                                                                > a
                                                                                                                                                                                > > gorgeous fish, but a rarity. it's counterparts
                                                                                                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                                                                                                > > fire fish (red) are around 10 -15 dollars and
                                                                                                                                                                                > purple
                                                                                                                                                                                > > is around 30. anything with taht many colors is
                                                                                                                                                                                > going
                                                                                                                                                                                > > to be $. lmao
                                                                                                                                                                                > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > anyone have one of these? if so, do you recall
                                                                                                                                                                                > how
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > much you paid & where you got it? i want to get
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > one for my sw tank but honestly cannot justify
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > $180!!
                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Make Yahoo! your home page
                                                                                                                                                                                > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >



                                                                                                                                                                                Discover Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                                                Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
                                                                                                                                                                                http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11358 From: kd7poe Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Daily Digests and Viruses
                                                                                                                                                                                This will be my last post on the subject, after all this is a
                                                                                                                                                                                Aquarium group not a Computer Group. I have already followed your
                                                                                                                                                                                advise and stopped receiving e-mails from the group, however I would
                                                                                                                                                                                have preferred the digest.

                                                                                                                                                                                The reason being that I belong to about 20 groups, some of which I do
                                                                                                                                                                                not get mail and find that I don't visit them enough. Unforunatly I
                                                                                                                                                                                receive more than 100 e-mails daily. The digest forces me to go ahead
                                                                                                                                                                                and read the message.

                                                                                                                                                                                I know I don't post here, but you can rest assured that I read almost
                                                                                                                                                                                everything. Before retiring I had a fish room with several thousand
                                                                                                                                                                                gallons of water. You never know it all and I find that I constantly
                                                                                                                                                                                learn from all the different posts made here.

                                                                                                                                                                                If you want to call me a Troll be my guest, however it was not my
                                                                                                                                                                                intention to create Havoc, I only wanted to try to let everyone know
                                                                                                                                                                                just what the DIGEST looked like. Anyone who wants to fault me for
                                                                                                                                                                                that I plead guilty.

                                                                                                                                                                                Gentlemen, accept my apology and let's get back to FishKeeping.

                                                                                                                                                                                PS One of the reasons I dont post here much is because I raise
                                                                                                                                                                                Africans, but as I peviously said I am still learning from all the
                                                                                                                                                                                posts. One is never too old to learn new things "Although it is Hard
                                                                                                                                                                                to teach an Old Dog new tricks"

                                                                                                                                                                                John in Nevada
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11359 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: helfrich firefish
                                                                                                                                                                                oh, i've never heard that before about them being schooling fish. well that explains why the darn
                                                                                                                                                                                thing hid all the time. and i couldn't have put that many in my 12 so that wouldn't have worked
                                                                                                                                                                                even if i had known that. glad the lfs exchanged it for me.

                                                                                                                                                                                rarity definitely makes the price jump. i guess that's why some cars are over a million bucks, and
                                                                                                                                                                                some huge-a$$ diamonds, too!

                                                                                                                                                                                yeah, i wouldn't pay that much even for a purebreed dog or cat or any pet either. it's just too
                                                                                                                                                                                much for a pet for me.

                                                                                                                                                                                --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                > firefish actually belong in groups...had you gotten
                                                                                                                                                                                > 6-12 they would have schooled and been out front all
                                                                                                                                                                                > the time. as far as the helfrichs....rarity has a
                                                                                                                                                                                > high price...i would never pay that for a fish either.
                                                                                                                                                                                > hell i would not pay it for a dog or any other pet
                                                                                                                                                                                > either.
                                                                                                                                                                                > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > > yeah, i had an orange colored firefish for awhile
                                                                                                                                                                                > > but it was so boring. the only time i saw the
                                                                                                                                                                                > > darn thing was when i first put it in the tank and
                                                                                                                                                                                > > it kept trying to jump out, and when i took it
                                                                                                                                                                                > > out to take back to the lfs to exchange it for
                                                                                                                                                                                > > another ocellaris.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > now the helfrich i would love to have, but
                                                                                                                                                                                > > absolutely no way in hell would i pay that kind of
                                                                                                                                                                                > > money for it, no matter how pretty & brightly
                                                                                                                                                                                > > colored! lol
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > that is the helfrichs fire fish. they are
                                                                                                                                                                                > > extremely
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > hardy, but also very rare. they will often run in
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > excess of $200, if not even up to $300.00. it is
                                                                                                                                                                                > > a
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > gorgeous fish, but a rarity. it's counterparts
                                                                                                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > fire fish (red) are around 10 -15 dollars and
                                                                                                                                                                                > > purple
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > is around 30. anything with taht many colors is
                                                                                                                                                                                > > going
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > to be $. lmao
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > anyone have one of these? if so, do you recall
                                                                                                                                                                                > > how
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > much you paid & where you got it? i want to get
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > one for my sw tank but honestly cannot justify
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > $180!!
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > I love Addidas, my Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > Make Yahoo! your home page
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Discover Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                                                > Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
                                                                                                                                                                                > http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                                                                I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11360 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Fin rot??
                                                                                                                                                                                How does amano shrimps look like? How big can they get? Would they bother
                                                                                                                                                                                small fishes like neon tetras? What if they are put into a cockatoo cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                tank, would the shrimps be lunch for the cichlid?

                                                                                                                                                                                Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                                LoveMoAko@...

                                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                                                                From: Esther Souverein
                                                                                                                                                                                Date: 05/08/05 02:38:44
                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fin rot??

                                                                                                                                                                                I think it is likely that the Serpae Tetras are the culprits here. You say
                                                                                                                                                                                you have 4; I don’t think that’s enough to stop them bothering the rest. In
                                                                                                                                                                                my opinion, a good number would be at least 7, if your tanksize allows that.

                                                                                                                                                                                You could try monitoring them a while though, before you decide to make
                                                                                                                                                                                alterations. Just sit in front of the tank long enough for the fish to
                                                                                                                                                                                forget you’re there and observe their behaviour.

                                                                                                                                                                                Good luck, Esther.



                                                                                                                                                                                Van: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] Namens
                                                                                                                                                                                Dawana B
                                                                                                                                                                                Verzonden: zaterdag 7 mei 2005 17:50
                                                                                                                                                                                Aan: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                Onderwerp: [AquaticLife] Fin rot??

                                                                                                                                                                                I've just noticed that one of my older black skirt tetras looks as if she's
                                                                                                                                                                                missing part of her tail (she's a long-fin type). Is it possible that she
                                                                                                                                                                                has fin rot? She appears to be eating and socializing well. I don't have any
                                                                                                                                                                                other fish that are bigger, she's one of the biggest. I do have 4 serpae
                                                                                                                                                                                tetras in the tank (29 gal), but there are 7 black skirt tetras. The other
                                                                                                                                                                                inhabitants are: cories (8), otos (4), endlers, male only (7), amano shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                (4), danios (7), and neons (10ish). It's a well planted tank, all parameters
                                                                                                                                                                                zero, pH is 7.2, well established. Most recent occupants are 4 cories and
                                                                                                                                                                                about 8 neons.
                                                                                                                                                                                I'm really confused as to what could be happening to her/his(lol) tail. I
                                                                                                                                                                                realize the serpae tetras are fin nippers, but I thought with their number,
                                                                                                                                                                                they would leave everyone else alone. I see them chasing each other all the
                                                                                                                                                                                time.
                                                                                                                                                                                Should I quarantine the black skiirt tetra and treat? or should I add more
                                                                                                                                                                                serape tetras? or just continue to monitor?
                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks for your advice in advance!
                                                                                                                                                                                -Dawana
                                                                                                                                                                                P.S. I realize my tank is over-stocked based on the 1" rule. Novices should
                                                                                                                                                                                not try this. I'm extremely over-filtered, well-planted, and I change my
                                                                                                                                                                                water regularly and monitor it religiously. Many thanks!


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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11361 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Daily Digests and Viruses
                                                                                                                                                                                John, I don't find that your raising African (Cichlids) to be any
                                                                                                                                                                                excuse for you not to post. While probably in the minority here, I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                sure you have a lot of info to share with all of us. Even one small
                                                                                                                                                                                bit, if factual, could be a gain for the rest of us if its something
                                                                                                                                                                                which hasn't been previously brought forth. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kd7poe" <dumont53@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > This will be my last post on the subject, after all this is a
                                                                                                                                                                                > Aquarium group not a Computer Group. I have already followed your
                                                                                                                                                                                > advise and stopped receiving e-mails from the group, however I
                                                                                                                                                                                would
                                                                                                                                                                                > have preferred the digest.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > The reason being that I belong to about 20 groups, some of which I
                                                                                                                                                                                do
                                                                                                                                                                                > not get mail and find that I don't visit them enough. Unforunatly I
                                                                                                                                                                                > receive more than 100 e-mails daily. The digest forces me to go
                                                                                                                                                                                ahead
                                                                                                                                                                                > and read the message.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I know I don't post here, but you can rest assured that I read
                                                                                                                                                                                almost
                                                                                                                                                                                > everything. Before retiring I had a fish room with several thousand
                                                                                                                                                                                > gallons of water. You never know it all and I find that I
                                                                                                                                                                                constantly
                                                                                                                                                                                > learn from all the different posts made here.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > If you want to call me a Troll be my guest, however it was not my
                                                                                                                                                                                > intention to create Havoc, I only wanted to try to let everyone
                                                                                                                                                                                know
                                                                                                                                                                                > just what the DIGEST looked like. Anyone who wants to fault me for
                                                                                                                                                                                > that I plead guilty.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Gentlemen, accept my apology and let's get back to FishKeeping.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > PS One of the reasons I dont post here much is because I raise
                                                                                                                                                                                > Africans, but as I peviously said I am still learning from all the
                                                                                                                                                                                > posts. One is never too old to learn new things "Although it is
                                                                                                                                                                                Hard
                                                                                                                                                                                > to teach an Old Dog new tricks"
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > John in Nevada
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11362 From: Nan Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
                                                                                                                                                                                Personally, I like guppys for a starter fish.  Also, what works lovely mollys, and swordtails.  They are very colorful.  However, if you get mollys, please don't add your Betta to the tank.  The mollys have a tendancy to be fin nippers and will eventually thru harrassment, probably kill your betta.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Nan

                                                                                                                                                                                Richard Jolitz <emicarn@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                Greetings All.

                                                                                                                                                                                I am looking for some suggestions on good hardy
                                                                                                                                                                                starter fish. I have  10 gallon tank setup and the
                                                                                                                                                                                single fish I put in it didn't do well [betta] and has
                                                                                                                                                                                since croaked.

                                                                                                                                                                                Anyone have any suggestions for a good hardy community
                                                                                                                                                                                fish that is a good starter?  I've considered mollys
                                                                                                                                                                                and/or tetras along with a betta for color. 

                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks for any help!


                                                                                                                                                                                Rich


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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11363 From: Nan Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                                I have built it, now I need to know if haveing an airstone in the same tank will be a problem?  If so, I can add it to a different tank.  I am just waiting for a CO2 Guru to answer..*LOL* Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Nan

                                                                                                                                                                                tmt118@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                For do it yourself CO2, check out this website: 
                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html

                                                                                                                                                                                It has very good and accurate information.

                                                                                                                                                                                Tina




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                                                                                                                                                                                .
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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11364 From: Nan Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks Steve!!

                                                                                                                                                                                Nan

                                                                                                                                                                                Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                If they have a good scientific library, you may be golden. One publication
                                                                                                                                                                                to look for is "Coepia" which covers both fish and herps.

                                                                                                                                                                                \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 9:16 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pacu 911


                                                                                                                                                                                Thank you, Steve.  I live near Berry College in Georgia, so I should be able
                                                                                                                                                                                to check there.  And keep useing Google, of course.  I appreciate the help!

                                                                                                                                                                                Nan

                                                                                                                                                                                Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                      Nan,
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                      I used to use the Yale and Harvard libraries quite a bit for that
                                                                                                                                                                                kind of
                                                                                                                                                                                      stuff (time wise they were equidistant from where I was living).
                                                                                                                                                                                Now, I live
                                                                                                                                                                                      way too far away for those libraries. I use mainly online sources
                                                                                                                                                                                now. When
                                                                                                                                                                                      you do a Google search, you may find good sources if the domain ends
                                                                                                                                                                                in edu.
                                                                                                                                                                                      There are also a good number of science publications on the net,
                                                                                                                                                                                some which
                                                                                                                                                                                      require subscriptions for access and others that don't. One of my
                                                                                                                                                                                clients
                                                                                                                                                                                      publishes a magazine known as _Science News_, so if I find a
                                                                                                                                                                                reference that
                                                                                                                                                                                      requires a subscription, I can usually find the publication in their
                                                                                                                                                                                library
                                                                                                                                                                                      and read it on my own time. They are nice enough to allow me access.
                                                                                                                                                                                I've
                                                                                                                                                                                      not yet had the time or the need to check out other resources in
                                                                                                                                                                                this area
                                                                                                                                                                                      such as the Smithsonian, though I have made the effort to get to
                                                                                                                                                                                know some
                                                                                                                                                                                      of the people who work there. Not only do they have publications,
                                                                                                                                                                                but they
                                                                                                                                                                                      have preserved specimens.
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                      I don't know where you live, but there may be a university near you
                                                                                                                                                                                that you
                                                                                                                                                                                      can get access to their libraries, though it has gotten tougher to
                                                                                                                                                                                do over
                                                                                                                                                                                      the last several years without having some sort of relationship with
                                                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                                                      university.
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                      ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 2:18 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pacu 911
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                      Thank you Patrick.  I will keep that in mind...*S*  And later when I
                                                                                                                                                                                can
                                                                                                                                                                                      keep my eyes open and not fall asleep at the keyboard (late at
                                                                                                                                                                                night!), I
                                                                                                                                                                                      would like to know where I can find some of those research articles
                                                                                                                                                                                and peer
                                                                                                                                                                                      reviewed articles.*grin*
                                                                                                                                                                                      Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                      "Patrick, American Fish Guy" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                  It happens to me too.  I plan to cite a source only to
                                                                                                                                                                                find
                                                                                                                                                                                      out it says I'm wrong.  That is when I quit posting on the subject.
                                                                                                                                                                                :)  Just
                                                                                                                                                                                      joking.  Actually, the first source I found said omnivore that likes
                                                                                                                                                                                feeder
                                                                                                                                                                                      fish.  I almost thought I had gotten it way off, and then I found
                                                                                                                                                                                that
                                                                                                                                                                                      research article.  Rule number one of research: Research articles
                                                                                                                                                                                are more
                                                                                                                                                                                      trustworthy than web sites, and peer reviewed articles are even
                                                                                                                                                                                better. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                            Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                            Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and
                                                                                                                                                                                more
                                                                                                                                                                                      money!
                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                            I'll Be.........After reading your post, Patrick, I was quick
                                                                                                                                                                                to
                                                                                                                                                                                      jump on the "Says WHO?" band wagon, but ya know, your right they are
                                                                                                                                                                                      suppossed to be herbivores, I have been mislead!  I decided to site
                                                                                                                                                                                my own
                                                                                                                                                                                      sources as to what the Pacu eats, to prove you wrong, Patrick, but
                                                                                                                                                                                alllll
                                                                                                                                                                                      over the place I am seeing that they prefer hard nut like vegetation
                                                                                                                                                                                in the
                                                                                                                                                                                      wild and that they will eat anything they can.  I was right about
                                                                                                                                                                                them being
                                                                                                                                                                                      related to the Pirannah family though!*LOL*  Forgive my ignorance.
                                                                                                                                                                                I just
                                                                                                                                                                                      know what I had learned from before. My bad!  Let me list a few
                                                                                                                                                                                sources for
                                                                                                                                                                                      those who don't believe me (and I guess Patrick, too...*LOL*)!
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/wild/pacu.htm
                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/pacu-red.htm
                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.postring.net/pacu/
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                            Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
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                                                                                                                                                                                Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11365 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: livebearer fry
                                                                                                                                                                                Anyone noticed that females seem to live longer? In pond guppies at least?
                                                                                                                                                                                Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                Angelfish are predatory but have SMALL mouths.
                                                                                                                                                                                I'd would think your fry would be big enough to add to the tank now. The plant cover should help them hide if someone decides to go hunting.

                                                                                                                                                                                Swordtails and most Livebearers should be kept 1male per 3-4 females. Male will try and breed everything and the more females to chase less aggression. As your fry grow try and limit the number of males you keep.

                                                                                                                                                                                rob
                                                                                                                                                                                indiana



                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 5/10/2005 12:47:38 PM US Eastern Standard Time, crazy.joe.walcek@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                                at what age/length would it be safe to introduce swordtail fry back
                                                                                                                                                                                into the main tank? They were born 2/24, and are now about 1/2" long.
                                                                                                                                                                                In my main tank are 3 adult swords and an angel that might get hungry
                                                                                                                                                                                for them. There is a fair amount of plants available for cover too




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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11366 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                what do you mean by this?
                                                                                                                                                                                Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                just remember to use power heads with deep beds, air
                                                                                                                                                                                pumps will not form a strong enough suction for the
                                                                                                                                                                                ugf to work. that would be a situation where problems
                                                                                                                                                                                occur with toxic gases
                                                                                                                                                                                --- Steve Szabo wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > Emily,
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > A deeper bed will give you more biological activity.
                                                                                                                                                                                > I've seen as much as 5"
                                                                                                                                                                                > of gravel in a tank with a UGF, though I've never
                                                                                                                                                                                > gone that deep myself.
                                                                                                                                                                                > Gold fish are "dirty" fish in that they excrete a
                                                                                                                                                                                > lot of ammonia. The more
                                                                                                                                                                                > gravel bed you have, the more bacteria can colonize
                                                                                                                                                                                > it and take care of the
                                                                                                                                                                                > load from the goldfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                > Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 12:19 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help with
                                                                                                                                                                                > nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I did add some gravel already, but I think I could
                                                                                                                                                                                > bring in some more. Is a
                                                                                                                                                                                > few inches of gravel too much for a UGF?? I wanted a
                                                                                                                                                                                > deeper substrate in the
                                                                                                                                                                                > new planted tank because the goldfish like to dig up
                                                                                                                                                                                > plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Trevor wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Why should it matter whether she's using a UGF in
                                                                                                                                                                                > both tanks? The
                                                                                                                                                                                > gravel from the established tank should have
                                                                                                                                                                                > bacteria in it no
                                                                                                                                                                                > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                > what kind of filter she's using (or even if she
                                                                                                                                                                                > weren't using a
                                                                                                                                                                                > filter).
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo"
                                                                                                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > > If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                                > > type of filtration in your other tank--the
                                                                                                                                                                                > UGF--you can take some
                                                                                                                                                                                > of the
                                                                                                                                                                                > > substrate from that tank and place it in the new
                                                                                                                                                                                > tank to add to
                                                                                                                                                                                > your
                                                                                                                                                                                > > bacterial colonies.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >



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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11367 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: livebearer fry
                                                                                                                                                                                It often seems that way with humans, as well. :D

                                                                                                                                                                                - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                                Emily Tenczar wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                > Anyone noticed that females seem to live longer? In pond guppies at least?
                                                                                                                                                                                > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11368 From: paul helms Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Need help with nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                using an air pump to run a ugf will not create enough
                                                                                                                                                                                suction to go through deep beds of gravel. use a
                                                                                                                                                                                power head water pump on top of the uplift tube
                                                                                                                                                                                instead of the air pump. they draw 160-250 gph
                                                                                                                                                                                instead of the minimal draw by the air returning up
                                                                                                                                                                                the tube.
                                                                                                                                                                                --- Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > what do you mean by this?
                                                                                                                                                                                > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > just remember to use power heads with deep beds, air
                                                                                                                                                                                > pumps will not form a strong enough suction for the
                                                                                                                                                                                > ugf to work. that would be a situation where
                                                                                                                                                                                > problems
                                                                                                                                                                                > occur with toxic gases
                                                                                                                                                                                > --- Steve Szabo wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Emily,
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > A deeper bed will give you more biological
                                                                                                                                                                                > activity.
                                                                                                                                                                                > > I've seen as much as 5"
                                                                                                                                                                                > > of gravel in a tank with a UGF, though I've never
                                                                                                                                                                                > > gone that deep myself.
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Gold fish are "dirty" fish in that they excrete a
                                                                                                                                                                                > > lot of ammonia. The more
                                                                                                                                                                                > > gravel bed you have, the more bacteria can
                                                                                                                                                                                > colonize
                                                                                                                                                                                > > it and take care of the
                                                                                                                                                                                > > load from the goldfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 12:19 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help with
                                                                                                                                                                                > > nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > I did add some gravel already, but I think I could
                                                                                                                                                                                > > bring in some more. Is a
                                                                                                                                                                                > > few inches of gravel too much for a UGF?? I wanted
                                                                                                                                                                                > a
                                                                                                                                                                                > > deeper substrate in the
                                                                                                                                                                                > > new planted tank because the goldfish like to dig
                                                                                                                                                                                > up
                                                                                                                                                                                > > plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Trevor wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Why should it matter whether she's using a UGF in
                                                                                                                                                                                > > both tanks? The
                                                                                                                                                                                > > gravel from the established tank should have
                                                                                                                                                                                > > bacteria in it no
                                                                                                                                                                                > > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                > > what kind of filter she's using (or even if she
                                                                                                                                                                                > > weren't using a
                                                                                                                                                                                > > filter).
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo"
                                                                                                                                                                                > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > type of filtration in your other tank--the
                                                                                                                                                                                > > UGF--you can take some
                                                                                                                                                                                > > of the
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > substrate from that tank and place it in the new
                                                                                                                                                                                > > tank to add to
                                                                                                                                                                                > > your
                                                                                                                                                                                > > > bacterial colonies.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                                                                                                                > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
                                                                                                                                                                                > tour:
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                                                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when
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                                                                                                                                                                                > .
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                                                                                                                                                                                > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                                                                                > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                                                                                > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
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                                                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11369 From: helen572 Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: feeder fish (goldfish?) with platies?
                                                                                                                                                                                I got seven feeder fish, which I thought were goldfish, even though
                                                                                                                                                                                they didn't look like goldfish -- two were silver colored, and the
                                                                                                                                                                                others were very slim and small. I put them in the ten-gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                                                for my blue crayfish to feed on. Well, I had felt sorry for the
                                                                                                                                                                                crayfish -- every time I put in one of those little shrimp pellets,
                                                                                                                                                                                she would still rise up with her claws in the air. I figured I'd get
                                                                                                                                                                                the feeder fish for her. But...next morning, she had killed THREE of
                                                                                                                                                                                the feeder fish, but not eaten all of them -- the remains of the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                were clinging to the filter intake. I decided to remove the other
                                                                                                                                                                                four fish and put them in with the platies. Hubby said you shouldn't
                                                                                                                                                                                put goldfish in with platies. He left three of the "goldfish" --
                                                                                                                                                                                small, slim, orange colored -- in the platy tank, but put the
                                                                                                                                                                                silver-colored "goldfish" back in the crayfish tank. I don't know how
                                                                                                                                                                                he could tell, but he said the silver colored one wasn't a goldfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                So my question is: Need I worry about putting feeder fish (whether
                                                                                                                                                                                goldfish or others kinds) in with platies?
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11370 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                                                                                How about one of those upside down bells or domes, let the CO2 bubble into it and keep the top of it below the water line. That way there is a 100% CO2 and if the water equlises with it then the water at least in that part of the tank will be higher concentration.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 9:25 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                Nan,

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Pumping CO2 in a tank with a bubbler is a total waste. Bubbler will remove the excess CO2 back into the atmosphere. If you do want to push CO2 in a tank, then do it on the one without the bubbler or switch off the bubbler on this one.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: 10 May 2005 00:33
                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                So which is it?  I am building the DIY CO2, and I have a bubbler in my tank, so should I do it in a different tank that has no bubbler or use the one with the bubbler?  Thanks.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                nan
                                                                                                                                                                                Nimish Mathur < nimmat4@... > wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                Bruce,

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                You are correct in a way that surface agitation does get rid of excess CO2 from the water. But it still has to settle an equilibrium with the CO2 concentration in the air? It cannot rid the water if 100% CO2 and if a water has zero CO2, surface agitation will add some CO2 to the water to make this equilibrium. I dont really know what the equation for the equilibrium is, but it does work.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bruce Hansen
                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: 08 May 2005 04:36
                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                My understanding has always been that agitation of the surface caused CO2 to be lost from solution and increased oxygen solution, although of course the 2 processes are essentially independent.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Cheers

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Bruce (Hansen)

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                ANGFA (Qld) Inc - http://www.angfaqld.org.au/

                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 9:33 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Bit confusion here I think.

                                                                                                                                                                                Dissolved CO2 in the water is governed partially by PH or vice versa but that is when the equilibrium between the atmosphere and water is not maintained. When we talk about calculating how much CO2 is in the water, this CO2 we are talking about is the one that is in transition between CO2+H2O and the carbonic acid. The pure Co2 dissolving capacity of water is not really 100% governed by PH I think. Temperature however can have a major governing factor on this.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                I am not a chemist either so I am also looking forward to everyones views on this J

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                                From: Fish Bloke [mailto:fishbloke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: 09 April 2005 06:08
                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Fair enough.  I am here to learn, can you expand.  Was everything I said wrong, or just that bit.  :^)

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Phil.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                                From: Liz Wilhite

                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 1:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                On Apr 8, 2005 7:22 PM, Fish Bloke <fishbloke@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                I am no chemist, but I think the idea of pH having a bearing on how much CO2 water can hold is wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                I am a Ph.D. chemist.  You are dead wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Liz

                                                                                                                                                                                 



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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11371 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                                                                                alternatively, my current idea is to get a small tank with a sealed lid (ie clamps and watertight seal) fill with water via a low side inlet port, put a CO2 'air' bubble in the top part and a water side low outlet port.    Theory being that the water MUST pass the CO2 and hence probably consume the CO2 a certain amount, how much CO2 is in the tank can be regulated by the size of the CO2 'air' bubble.... any thoughts? 
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                NOTE THIS IS JUST A THOUGHT and i havn't tried or even tested it.... I'm just requesting feed back!
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                From: Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 9:33 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                So which is it?  I am building the DIY CO2, and I have a bubbler in my tank, so should I do it in a different tank that has no bubbler or use the one with the bubbler?  Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                nan
                                                                                                                                                                                Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                Bruce,

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                You are correct in a way that surface agitation does get rid of excess CO2 from the water. But it still has to settle an equilibrium with the CO2 concentration in the air? It cannot rid the water if 100% CO2 and if a water has zero CO2, surface agitation will add some CO2 to the water to make this equilibrium. I don’t really know what the equation for the equilibrium is, but it does work.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bruce Hansen
                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: 08 May 2005 04:36
                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                My understanding has always been that agitation of the surface caused CO2 to be lost from solution and increased oxygen solution, although of course the 2 processes are essentially independent.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Cheers

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Bruce (Hansen)

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                ANGFA (Qld) Inc - http://www.angfaqld.org.au/

                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 9:33 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Bit confusion here I think.

                                                                                                                                                                                Dissolved CO2 in the water is governed partially by PH or vice versa but that is when the equilibrium between the atmosphere and water is not maintained. When we talk about calculating how much CO2 is in the water, this CO2 we are talking about is the one that is in transition between CO2+H2O and the carbonic acid. The pure Co2 dissolving capacity of water is not really 100% governed by PH I think. Temperature however can have a major governing factor on this.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                I am not a chemist either so I am also looking forward to everyone’s views on this J

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                                From: Fish Bloke [mailto:fishbloke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: 09 April 2005 06:08
                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Fair enough.  I am here to learn, can you expand.  Was everything I said wrong, or just that bit.  :^)

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Phil.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                                From: Liz Wilhite

                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 1:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                On Apr 8, 2005 7:22 PM, Fish Bloke <fishbloke@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                I am no chemist, but I think the idea of pH having a bearing on how much CO2 water can hold is wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                I am a Ph.D. chemist.  You are dead wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Liz

                                                                                                                                                                                 



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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11372 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Daily Digests and Viruses
                                                                                                                                                                                I used to get the Daily Digests, it was GREAT! but the only problem was i couldn't get some of the pictures people posed cause Yahoo deletes them.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Daily Digest in my mind was a way to reduce the amount of in mail in my email account, i could focus on email from my friends without it getting mixed up with AquaticLife mailing list stuff... I know i know i know you can filter the stuff but it was just a neucence to make the filter.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                By the way I don't have any bad fealings about our 'Troll' friend i think his reasons were partially justified.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 6:19 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Daily Digests and Viruses

                                                                                                                                                                                      By the way, I was correct to call you a troll, although sometimes trolling is not a bad thing if its hidden agenda is to bring about a positive outcome.  The truth is, we never know the intentions anyone has on the internet, but I tend to think the best. ..
                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!



                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11373 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks guys, I really appreciate the help and information this mailing list
                                                                                                                                                                                provides me. I would recomend every one who has fish join the group!!

                                                                                                                                                                                =Nick


                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 3:24 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?


                                                                                                                                                                                > co2 is just like plant steroids...you won't be
                                                                                                                                                                                > deficient unless you are extremely planted. the
                                                                                                                                                                                > fertilizers are sufficientin most cases
                                                                                                                                                                                > --- Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                >> How do you know if there is a CO2 deficency verses a
                                                                                                                                                                                >> Neutrient deficency?
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >> =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >> ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                >> From: r_ohle@...
                                                                                                                                                                                >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                >> Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 8:37 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >> Hi Nim,
                                                                                                                                                                                >> I have been reading about CO2 for the last six
                                                                                                                                                                                >> months. I look at the plants that thrive in my take
                                                                                                                                                                                >> using JBJ lighting and wonder why do I need better.
                                                                                                                                                                                >> Notice I said thrive - some pants seem to wither
                                                                                                                                                                                >> over many months. I am still a newbie at indoor
                                                                                                                                                                                >> aquatic plants, so I figure as I learn more about
                                                                                                                                                                                >> plants the better my choices will be. Interestingly
                                                                                                                                                                                >> enough (maybe) I have been quite successful growing
                                                                                                                                                                                >> aquatic plants out doors for the last 15 years as I
                                                                                                                                                                                >> also have a pond for turtles & fish. Took a bit to
                                                                                                                                                                                >> figure out what works for a specific plant outside
                                                                                                                                                                                >> but well worth the experimentation in my opinion.
                                                                                                                                                                                >> Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                >> red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
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                                                                                                                                                                                >> we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                >> matter
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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11374 From: paul helms Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: feeder fish (goldfish?) with platies?
                                                                                                                                                                                probably feeder guppies, mosquito fish or minnows
                                                                                                                                                                                --- helen572 <shirleycat@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > I got seven feeder fish, which I thought were
                                                                                                                                                                                > goldfish, even though
                                                                                                                                                                                > they didn't look like goldfish -- two were silver
                                                                                                                                                                                > colored, and the
                                                                                                                                                                                > others were very slim and small. I put them in the
                                                                                                                                                                                > ten-gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                                                > for my blue crayfish to feed on. Well, I had felt
                                                                                                                                                                                > sorry for the
                                                                                                                                                                                > crayfish -- every time I put in one of those little
                                                                                                                                                                                > shrimp pellets,
                                                                                                                                                                                > she would still rise up with her claws in the air.
                                                                                                                                                                                > I figured I'd get
                                                                                                                                                                                > the feeder fish for her. But...next morning, she
                                                                                                                                                                                > had killed THREE of
                                                                                                                                                                                > the feeder fish, but not eaten all of them -- the
                                                                                                                                                                                > remains of the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                > were clinging to the filter intake. I decided to
                                                                                                                                                                                > remove the other
                                                                                                                                                                                > four fish and put them in with the platies. Hubby
                                                                                                                                                                                > said you shouldn't
                                                                                                                                                                                > put goldfish in with platies. He left three of the
                                                                                                                                                                                > "goldfish" --
                                                                                                                                                                                > small, slim, orange colored -- in the platy tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                > but put the
                                                                                                                                                                                > silver-colored "goldfish" back in the crayfish tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                > I don't know how
                                                                                                                                                                                > he could tell, but he said the silver colored one
                                                                                                                                                                                > wasn't a goldfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                > So my question is: Need I worry about putting
                                                                                                                                                                                > feeder fish (whether
                                                                                                                                                                                > goldfish or others kinds) in with platies?
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >



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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11375 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: feeder fish with platies?
                                                                                                                                                                                when you bought them where they sold as goldfish or as rosey reds?  Almost sounds like you have rosey reds which are actually a minnow.

                                                                                                                                                                                Reasons feeder fish are no no's...
                                                                                                                                                                                They are treated very badly in transport,storage and even at the LFS. Usually they are delivered in 1 bag with upwards of 1500 fish in it. Way overcrowded, Usually not fed for upwards of a week prior to arrival at LFS. Most LFS don't medicate or feed the fish. This being said they are Very very prone to disease.

                                                                                                                                                                                Your crayfish probally would have enjoyed the smaller fish like feeder guppies, or even medium sized rosey reds more then the Goldfish.

                                                                                                                                                                                I have never had a crayfish but I have seen them in the wild hide food under rocks and in crevices and come back later to chow down on it.  Maybe the fish stuck to the filter might have been eaten later in the day or the next.

                                                                                                                                                                                As far as Goldfish and Platties... Platties are warm water fish Like temps between 75*-80* F  where goldfish are cold water fish who like water below 75*f
                                                                                                                                                                                so you will be adding stress to the goldfish by having them in the Platty tank. Stress a fish that is carrying a disease  and you might get an outbreak in the tank..


                                                                                                                                                                                We use Feeder fish for our Larger Cichlids. But we try and Quarantine all our fish before introduction into the main Tanks between 2-5 weeks sometimes longer.

                                                                                                                                                                                rob
                                                                                                                                                                                Indiana

                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 5/10/2005 7:10:25 PM US Eastern Standard Time, shirleycat@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                                I decided to remove the other
                                                                                                                                                                                four fish and put them in with the platies.  Hubby said you shouldn't
                                                                                                                                                                                put goldfish in with platies.  He left three of the "goldfish" --
                                                                                                                                                                                small, slim, orange colored -- in the platy tank, but put the
                                                                                                                                                                                silver-colored "goldfish" back in the crayfish tank.  I don't know how
                                                                                                                                                                                he could tell, but he said the silver colored one wasn't a goldfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                So my question is:  Need I worry about putting feeder fish (whether
                                                                                                                                                                                goldfish or others kinds) in with platies?


                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11376 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                I was just at a lecture at our aquarium society about filtration and the speaker who has a Ph.D. in aquarium related issues (not fish farming literally aquaria) and is head of research for an aquarium product company doesn't matter which one he did not try to sell us on anything  but he pointed out that as a product of the biological filter the ammonia to nitrite to nitrate conversion hydrogen ions are released and that means a decrease pH (pH relates to hydrogen) and in an established tank ALL you need to measure is pH and do a small weekly water change when pH drops in a correctly stocked tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                  This does not really apply to new tanks but once established does apply. And water changes must be done to restore buffering capacity to help maintain that pH that is continually being decreased due to the nitrite cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                  Also he stated that rinsing a filter plate in tap water is OK because number one the bacteria are very difficult to kill and are not killed in water pipes.
                                                                                                                                                                                 Number 2 they are very sticky and are not easily removed.
                                                                                                                                                                                Number 3 that there is very little nitrifying bacteria on most filters because they are to dirty and another bacteria grows faster than the nitrifying and takes over the filter plates.  So rinsing is the best thing no matter what the water used is.
                                                                                                                                                                                 About filters he said the best one was whatever filter you would clean that if you wouldn't clean filters then you were just using junk.
                                                                                                                                                                                  So say what you want he essentially said test pH, small frequent water changes and clean your filters frequently. The basics we should all be practicing.
                                                                                                                                                                                  I have 25 years with fish and firmly believe in pH testing and that it has merit and I will stand by that esp. with this to back me up 
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                80 gallon south american cichlids
                                                                                                                                                                                55 gallon african cichlids
                                                                                                                                                                                50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11377 From: kd7poe Date: 5/10/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                I agree with most of what you have said.

                                                                                                                                                                                Yes Ammonia and Nitrite will lower the PH, it stands to reason, also a
                                                                                                                                                                                high PH will make the Ammonia & Nitrite Stronger. This is why PH and
                                                                                                                                                                                proper Biological Filtration is so importtant in Saltwater and Africans.

                                                                                                                                                                                The part I have a problem with is just testing the PH, I still beleive
                                                                                                                                                                                that it is necessary to test for Nitrates. My Nitrates are normaly
                                                                                                                                                                                about 15 or 20. Over a period of days they start rising, but the PH
                                                                                                                                                                                remains about 8.2. I test both my PH and my Nitrates.

                                                                                                                                                                                About every 10 days I do a 40/50% water change. However my water has a
                                                                                                                                                                                PH of about 7.6 so I find it necessary for me to add a Buffer. If I
                                                                                                                                                                                just used the water my PH drops.

                                                                                                                                                                                When it comes to the filters I totally agree. I use Bio Rings as a Bio
                                                                                                                                                                                filter in 2 of my filters. I just use the pads as a cleaning medium.
                                                                                                                                                                                I beleive with the Africans and Saltwater the more you test the better
                                                                                                                                                                                handle you have on your tank if something should start to go wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                                John in Nevada
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11378 From: Richard Troon Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
                                                                                                                                                                                Rich:

                                                                                                                                                                                The first fish in my new tank were swordtails and they
                                                                                                                                                                                have done well now for two months. They're also more
                                                                                                                                                                                interesting looking (at least the males) than some of
                                                                                                                                                                                the other choices (like Mollies or Platys) and not as
                                                                                                                                                                                ubiquitous as something like neon tetras.

                                                                                                                                                                                I love mine.

                                                                                                                                                                                RJ


                                                                                                                                                                                --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > i like the flame version of the dwarf gourami. very
                                                                                                                                                                                > colorful and mine is doing well in my newish
                                                                                                                                                                                > tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > cardinal tetras are very colorful, too. i'm not sure
                                                                                                                                                                                > how hardy, though =( same with rummy-noses.
                                                                                                                                                                                > the hardiest tetras i've had are my glowlights. not
                                                                                                                                                                                > as colorful as cardinals and rummies, but
                                                                                                                                                                                > definitely hardy!
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > --- Richard Jolitz <emicarn@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Greetings All.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > I am looking for some suggestions on good hardy
                                                                                                                                                                                > > starter fish. I have 10 gallon tank setup and the
                                                                                                                                                                                > > single fish I put in it didn't do well [betta] and
                                                                                                                                                                                > has
                                                                                                                                                                                > > since croaked.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Anyone have any suggestions for a good hardy
                                                                                                                                                                                > community
                                                                                                                                                                                > > fish that is a good starter? I've considered
                                                                                                                                                                                > mollys
                                                                                                                                                                                > > and/or tetras along with a betta for color.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Thanks for any help!
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Rich
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >



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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11379 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                                                                                Nicolas, If I gather the essence of your message correctly, you plan
                                                                                                                                                                                on sealing the top of the tank, bubbling in CO2 until you have a
                                                                                                                                                                                layer of pure CO2 over the water surface -- and you still plan on
                                                                                                                                                                                having LIVE FISH??? Happy plants, but am I not following you? Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas Munro" <nmunro@q...>
                                                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > alternatively, my current idea is to get a small tank with a sealed
                                                                                                                                                                                lid (ie clamps and watertight seal) fill with water via a low side
                                                                                                                                                                                inlet port, put a CO2 'air' bubble in the top part and a water side
                                                                                                                                                                                low outlet port. Theory being that the water MUST pass the CO2 and
                                                                                                                                                                                hence probably consume the CO2 a certain amount, how much CO2 is in
                                                                                                                                                                                the tank can be regulated by the size of the CO2 'air' bubble.... any
                                                                                                                                                                                thoughts?
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > NOTE THIS IS JUST A THOUGHT and i havn't tried or even tested
                                                                                                                                                                                it.... I'm just requesting feed back!
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                > From: Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 9:33 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > So which is it? I am building the DIY CO2, and I have a bubbler
                                                                                                                                                                                in my tank, so should I do it in a different tank that has no bubbler
                                                                                                                                                                                or use the one with the bubbler? Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > nan
                                                                                                                                                                                > Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > Bruce,
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > You are correct in a way that surface agitation does get rid of
                                                                                                                                                                                excess CO2 from the water. But it still has to settle an equilibrium
                                                                                                                                                                                with the CO2 concentration in the air? It cannot rid the water if
                                                                                                                                                                                100% CO2 and if a water has zero CO2, surface agitation will add some
                                                                                                                                                                                CO2 to the water to make this equilibrium. I don't really know what
                                                                                                                                                                                the equation for the equilibrium is, but it does work.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11380 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                Yep. Not a good idea of the tank is completely sealed on the surface. There are a lot of gas exchanges that happen on the surface that does remove toxic dissolved gasses from the system. A sealed system will not be able to do that and if for some reason, the plants are not able to cope with the fish consumption of O2, the fish will have no place to get any more O2 from.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                However, the idea of having a bell like thing that fills with CO2 does work well. There is a product called carbonator at www.oxydator.de that does exactly that and it works fine. Just, not as good as pressurized systems.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Also, The best way to dissolve CO2 in the water I think is using a canister as a CO2 diffuser. I have been using it for a long time this way and it does not consume any space in the tank and does diffuse 90% of the CO2. any excess that cannot be dissolved very well is ofcourse pushed out as bubbles.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: 11 May 2005 12:18
                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Nicolas,  If I gather the essence of your message correctly, you plan
                                                                                                                                                                                on sealing the top of the tank, bubbling in CO2 until you have a
                                                                                                                                                                                layer of pure CO2 over the water surface -- and you still plan on
                                                                                                                                                                                having LIVE FISH???   Happy plants, but am I not following you?  Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                \                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , "Nicolas Munro" <nmunro@q...>
                                                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > alternatively, my current idea is to get a small tank with a sealed
                                                                                                                                                                                lid (ie clamps and watertight seal) fill with water via a low side
                                                                                                                                                                                inlet port, put a CO2 'air' bubble in the top part and a water side
                                                                                                                                                                                low outlet port.    Theory being that the water MUST pass the CO2 and
                                                                                                                                                                                hence probably consume the CO2 a certain amount, how much CO2 is in
                                                                                                                                                                                the tank can be regulated by the size of the CO2 'air' bubble.... any
                                                                                                                                                                                thoughts?
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > NOTE THIS IS JUST A THOUGHT and i havn't tried or even tested
                                                                                                                                                                                it.... I'm just requesting feed back!
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >   ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                >   From: Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                >   To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                >   Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 9:33 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                >   Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >   So which is it?  I am building the DIY CO2, and I have a bubbler
                                                                                                                                                                                in my tank, so should I do it in a different tank that has no bubbler
                                                                                                                                                                                or use the one with the bubbler?  Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >   nan
                                                                                                                                                                                >   Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                >     Bruce,
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >     
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >     You are correct in a way that surface agitation does get rid of
                                                                                                                                                                                excess CO2 from the water. But it still has to settle an equilibrium
                                                                                                                                                                                with the CO2 concentration in the air? It cannot rid the water if
                                                                                                                                                                                100% CO2 and if a water has zero CO2, surface agitation will add some
                                                                                                                                                                                CO2 to the water to make this equilibrium. I don't really know what
                                                                                                                                                                                the equation for the equilibrium is, but it does work.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >     
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >     Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >     
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > -------------------------------------------------------------------




                                                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11381 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                                                                                Yep, you said it -- not a good idea. LOL (meaning "Lots Of Luck");
                                                                                                                                                                                your plant's should do great with the addition of proper nutrition
                                                                                                                                                                                and lighting, but you won't have one live fish. In ideal conditions,
                                                                                                                                                                                the saturation point of oxygen at sea level, at 80o, is about 8 ppm.
                                                                                                                                                                                This of course will vary as the temperature rises (decreased
                                                                                                                                                                                concentration) and falls (increased concentration). Additionally,
                                                                                                                                                                                this concentration will vary even more depending upon water
                                                                                                                                                                                conditions, not yet taking into consideration the fish load. Most
                                                                                                                                                                                favorably, the closer we can maintain that oxygen content to the
                                                                                                                                                                                maximum allowed concentration, the better the fish will thrive.
                                                                                                                                                                                While fish will still live at an oxygen concentration of 6 ppm (at
                                                                                                                                                                                80o), 5 ppm is stressing them and at 4 ppm they start to die off.
                                                                                                                                                                                The O2 that plants alone give off will not be enough to maintain a
                                                                                                                                                                                sufficient concentration of O2 in the water to allow fish to live.
                                                                                                                                                                                Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > Yep. Not a good idea of the tank is completely sealed on the
                                                                                                                                                                                surface. There
                                                                                                                                                                                > are a lot of gas exchanges that happen on the surface that does
                                                                                                                                                                                remove toxic
                                                                                                                                                                                > dissolved gasses from the system. A sealed system will not be able
                                                                                                                                                                                to do
                                                                                                                                                                                > that and if for some reason, the plants are not able to cope with
                                                                                                                                                                                the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                > consumption of O2, the fish will have no place to get any more O2
                                                                                                                                                                                from.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > However, the idea of having a bell like thing that fills with CO2
                                                                                                                                                                                does work
                                                                                                                                                                                > well. There is a product called carbonator at www.oxydator.de
                                                                                                                                                                                > <http://www.oxydator.de/> that does exactly that and it works
                                                                                                                                                                                fine. Just,
                                                                                                                                                                                > not as good as pressurized systems.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Also, The best way to dissolve CO2 in the water I think is using a
                                                                                                                                                                                canister
                                                                                                                                                                                > as a CO2 diffuser. I have been using it for a long time this way
                                                                                                                                                                                and it does
                                                                                                                                                                                > not consume any space in the tank and does diffuse 90% of the CO2.
                                                                                                                                                                                any
                                                                                                                                                                                > excess that cannot be dissolved very well is ofcourse pushed out as
                                                                                                                                                                                bubbles.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > _____
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                                                > Sent: 11 May 2005 12:18
                                                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Nicolas, If I gather the essence of your message correctly, you
                                                                                                                                                                                plan
                                                                                                                                                                                > on sealing the top of the tank, bubbling in CO2 until you have a
                                                                                                                                                                                > layer of pure CO2 over the water surface -- and you still plan on
                                                                                                                                                                                > having LIVE FISH??? Happy plants, but am I not following you?
                                                                                                                                                                                Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas Munro" <nmunro@q...>
                                                                                                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > > alternatively, my current idea is to get a small tank with a
                                                                                                                                                                                sealed
                                                                                                                                                                                > lid (ie clamps and watertight seal) fill with water via a low side
                                                                                                                                                                                > inlet port, put a CO2 'air' bubble in the top part and a water side
                                                                                                                                                                                > low outlet port. Theory being that the water MUST pass the CO2
                                                                                                                                                                                and
                                                                                                                                                                                > hence probably consume the CO2 a certain amount, how much CO2 is in
                                                                                                                                                                                > the tank can be regulated by the size of the CO2 'air' bubble....
                                                                                                                                                                                any
                                                                                                                                                                                > thoughts?
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > NOTE THIS IS JUST A THOUGHT and i havn't tried or even tested
                                                                                                                                                                                > it.... I'm just requesting feed back!
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                > > From: Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 9:33 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > So which is it? I am building the DIY CO2, and I have a
                                                                                                                                                                                bubbler
                                                                                                                                                                                > in my tank, so should I do it in a different tank that has no
                                                                                                                                                                                bubbler
                                                                                                                                                                                > or use the one with the bubbler? Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > nan
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Bruce,
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > You are correct in a way that surface agitation does get rid
                                                                                                                                                                                of
                                                                                                                                                                                > excess CO2 from the water. But it still has to settle an
                                                                                                                                                                                equilibrium
                                                                                                                                                                                > with the CO2 concentration in the air? It cannot rid the water if
                                                                                                                                                                                > 100% CO2 and if a water has zero CO2, surface agitation will add
                                                                                                                                                                                some
                                                                                                                                                                                > CO2 to the water to make this equilibrium. I don't really know what
                                                                                                                                                                                > the equation for the equilibrium is, but it does work.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                -
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                important to
                                                                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                                                Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > _____
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11382 From: Charlene Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Hi again I want to find something out.
                                                                                                                                                                                Hi Ok I have my hearters. and my sand. Now I need to know about Max-
                                                                                                                                                                                jet. I have 3 of them. 1 I have Max-jet 900, 2 Max-jet 1200. Should I
                                                                                                                                                                                got anymore for my 55 ga tank. Or something eles. And if i got the
                                                                                                                                                                                wright Max-Jet. Where should I put them in my 55 ga tank. Thank you for
                                                                                                                                                                                helping me again. Charlene muffin4494@...
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11383 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 5/11/05 1:45:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kritter714@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                                that is continually being decreased due to the nitrite cycle.


                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11384 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                Elaine,  Noticed your post and find it most interesting, with much informative data.  However, is it possible that you may have misunderstood this lecturer?  pH testing alone, cannot properly monitor the varying water parameters of all aquarium conditions.  Perhaps you've seemingly observed up 'till now that your water has allowed pH testing alone, with other parameters not getting out of hand between water changes.  Truth is that other parameters (ammonia, nitrite, etc. concentrations) can and do vary independently from pH, depending on many facters, the least of which is the basic make up of the water itself.  So what you are saying  cannot be taken as a blanket statement.  I'm glad its so far working for you, but pH testing alone cannot be assumed okay by every one of us.                                       \                                                                                                                         I also have to take exception to your # 3 excerpt, although I'm not exactly sure of what you mean by "most filters".   However, it is one of the main functions of all filters to a greater or lesser extent (depending upon type of filter) to help eliminate ammonia and nitrites by converting these compounds into less harmful nitrates via the express use of aerobic nitrifiers, such as Nitrospira (for ammonia) and nitrobacters (for nitrite).  These bacteria thrive best in aerobic (exposed to oxygen) conditions such as is found in filters, with increased oxygen flowing past them in the water flow, and even more so in filters containing bio-wheels and bio-balls, where a thin stream (or trickle) of oxygen enriched water is constantly flowing past.                 \                                                                                                                          Ray (in North Jersey)                                                                                              2   150's                                                                                                                 2   125's                                                                                                               4   100's                                                                                                                18   50's                                                                                                                12   40's              Various Central, South American and African Cichlids, Tetras,                                                                                                   6     26's              Barbs, Livebearers, Killifish, etc.                                                                                                 12   20's                                                                                                              24   15's                                                                                                               20   10's                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11385 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Cycling: now a pH question
                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks for all of you for the help with cycling. I checked the levels in the new goldfish/rosy red tank last night and nitrites are almost 0 with nitrates at 40 ppm. So I think it's probably time to start adding some more plants; when should I do another water change?
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                One of my rosy reds had died last night but I probably shouldn't take that as a bad sign yet because I know they were probably not very healthy to begin with in the feeder bin. If all goes well this week I'm going to think about transfering the last 2 of my goldfish, and I'm thinking it would probably be best to add one at a time, though do you think it would be okay to add both together? One is a medium oranda, and the other is a largish black moor.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                My pH is below 6.4 and alkalinity is 0. Should I think about doing something to adjust this now? I believe goldfish prefer something around pH 7.5. I can't add any pH buffers that are harmful to invertebrates because I have plenty of snails.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks again,
                                                                                                                                                                                Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11386 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: oranda and telescope breed question
                                                                                                                                                                                Just out of curiousity:
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                I think my silver goldfish is called a "blue scale oranda" but it's more silver with gold highlights than blue. What would this be called? Also the crazy head doesn't develop till the fish is older, right? She still doesn't have a very crazy looking head.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                I got a small telescope-eyed black goldfish from a feeder bin. Looks like a black moor but it's body shape is more like a comet, and it doesn't have the double tail. Has anyone seen this before?
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11387 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                    The fact that there is a university somewhere giving out Ph.D's in aquaria, which should take years (maybe decades) to accomplish (they would have to study chemistry, plant and animal sciences, aquaculture, agriculture, and several other fields, taking years for each), bothers me a little.  But what bothers me more is people claiming to be experts with fancy degrees and then making so many obvious mistakes and expecting people to believe him because he has degrees.  Of course nitrifying bacteria grow on filters.  I don't believe pH drops over time due to breaking down of food, if the tank is cared for correctly.  My current 29 gallon tank hasn't changed pH over the 2+ years it has been running.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                I was just at a lecture at our aquarium society about filtration and the speaker who has a Ph.D. in aquarium related issues (not fish farming literally aquaria) and is head of research for an aquarium product company doesn't matter which one he did not try to sell us on anything
                                                                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11388 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Movin' on up...

                                                                                                                                                                                FINALLY got the 75 gal. tank moved in.  Cleaned/Rinsed it out.  Now for the questions:

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                • Is rinsing it out good enough?  It’s been sitting for a while.  Someone said to use lemon juice for the spots?
                                                                                                                                                                                • Can I stick the current gravel in along with the gravel that was in the larger tank?  Again, has been sitting dry for weeks.
                                                                                                                                                                                • I only have the one Eheim filter, which the float is sticking.  How do I get them transferred with only one filter? 
                                                                                                                                                                                • Should this be a gradual thing or can I just transfer all the water, filter, gravel and fish at once?
                                                                                                                                                                                • Anyone know how to get a float on an Eheim to stop sticking?

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Leslie

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11389 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Movin' on up...
                                                                                                                                                                                You can add gravel from your current tank and in fact it's recommended because it helps it cycle. I've never heard of using lemon juice. I'm not familiar with your filter, but you should not add all the fish at once. Add a few, and when ammonia and nitrite levels reach almost 0 and nitrates rise, you can add more. It takes a while; I'm actually still setting up my 55 gal.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                FINALLY got the 75 gal. tank moved in.  Cleaned/Rinsed it out.  Now for the questions:

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                • Is rinsing it out good enough?  It�s been sitting for a while.  Someone said to use lemon juice for the spots?
                                                                                                                                                                                • Can I stick the current gravel in along with the gravel that was in the larger tank?  Again, has been sitting dry for weeks.
                                                                                                                                                                                • I only have the one Eheim filter, which the float is sticking.  How do I get them transferred with only one filter? 
                                                                                                                                                                                • Should this be a gradual thing or can I just transfer all the water, filter, gravel and fish at once?
                                                                                                                                                                                • Anyone know how to get a float on an Eheim to stop sticking?

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Leslie

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                 



                                                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11390 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Movin' on up...

                                                                                                                                                                                That means one tank won’t be filtered at all during transition.  ?

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                You can add gravel from your current tank and in fact it's recommended because it helps it cycle. I've never heard of using lemon juice. I'm not familiar with your filter, but you should not add all the fish at once. Add a few, and when ammonia and nitrite levels reach almost 0 and nitrates rise, you can add more. It takes a while; I'm actually still setting up my 55 gal.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                ·         Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11391 From: Trevor Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
                                                                                                                                                                                The betta is actually considered a pretty hardy fish (which is why it
                                                                                                                                                                                survives as long as it does in the conditions most people keep it in).
                                                                                                                                                                                Perhaps you should try to figure out what went wrong before possibly
                                                                                                                                                                                repeating it again? How was the tank set up? How long have you had it?
                                                                                                                                                                                Are you sure the betta wasn't a victim of "new tank syndrome"?

                                                                                                                                                                                - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard Jolitz <emicarn@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > Greetings All.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I am looking for some suggestions on good hardy
                                                                                                                                                                                > starter fish. I have 10 gallon tank setup and the
                                                                                                                                                                                > single fish I put in it didn't do well [betta] and has
                                                                                                                                                                                > since croaked.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Anyone have any suggestions for a good hardy community
                                                                                                                                                                                > fish that is a good starter? I've considered mollys
                                                                                                                                                                                > and/or tetras along with a betta for color.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Thanks for any help!
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Rich
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11392 From: helen572 Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: feeder fish and platies
                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks, Rob, for the info. I've checked out some sites with photos,
                                                                                                                                                                                and the orangey feeder fish I've got are definitely rosey reds. Not
                                                                                                                                                                                sure about the one silver colored feeder fish -- maybe a fathead
                                                                                                                                                                                minnow? In any case, I assume that it is okay to put minnows in with
                                                                                                                                                                                platies.
                                                                                                                                                                                Hubby said you can't put goldfish in with tropical fish because
                                                                                                                                                                                goldfish are "dirty" -- they pee too much. I would think it would have
                                                                                                                                                                                more to do with the temp. As you say, golfish like cooler water and
                                                                                                                                                                                most tropicals need warmer. So I now have three rosey reds in with
                                                                                                                                                                                three platies, and they are doing okay. Hubby put the one
                                                                                                                                                                                silver-colored minnow(?) in a spare two and a half gallon tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                thinking that it was some kind of goldfish. BTW, one site I visited
                                                                                                                                                                                said that platies like a temp of 64 to 77 degree F. The temp in my
                                                                                                                                                                                platy tank is about 68 - 70. They're very lively, eating well, and
                                                                                                                                                                                show no signs of sickness. Any more comments/recommendations are most
                                                                                                                                                                                welcome. Thanks again.
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11393 From: Eric Miner Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Couple of stupid set-up questions
                                                                                                                                                                                Hello All,

                                                                                                                                                                                I've spent months researching and learning about everything from fish
                                                                                                                                                                                food to cycling a new tank - from anglefish to zebra danios. I'm now
                                                                                                                                                                                ready to strat my first tank. But of course I have two more questions -

                                                                                                                                                                                1. on the inside of my new tanks there's some adhesive left over from
                                                                                                                                                                                a lable. I certainly don't want to use any soap on it. I plan on using
                                                                                                                                                                                isopropyl alsohol on that area and other areas of the inside. Are
                                                                                                                                                                                there any issues this doing this? I plan on wiping down the inside
                                                                                                                                                                                with dry paper towles.

                                                                                                                                                                                2. how the devil does one attach the backgroud 'paper' to the tank? I
                                                                                                                                                                                have a nice piece of black background and can only think of taping it
                                                                                                                                                                                on. Any other ideas?

                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks

                                                                                                                                                                                Eric
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11394 From: kb1dva Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Couple of stupid set-up questions

                                                                                                                                                                                For the sticky stuff, I would use a razor blade. That way there’s no problem. If you mean the backgrounds you can buy. I have mine stuck on with tape? There is no such thing as a stupid question. By the way I’m a beginner at this too. But I had the whole thing including fish given to me.   Emily Y

                                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Eric Miner
                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 3:33 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Couple of stupid set-up questions

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Hello All,

                                                                                                                                                                                I've spent months researching and learning about everything from fish
                                                                                                                                                                                food to cycling a new tank - from anglefish to zebra danios. I'm now
                                                                                                                                                                                ready to strat my first tank. But of course I have two more questions -

                                                                                                                                                                                1. on the inside of my new tanks there's some adhesive left over from
                                                                                                                                                                                a lable. I certainly don't want to use any soap on it. I plan on using
                                                                                                                                                                                isopropyl alsohol on that area and other areas of the inside. Are
                                                                                                                                                                                there any issues this doing this? I plan on wiping down the inside
                                                                                                                                                                                with dry paper towles.

                                                                                                                                                                                2. how the devil does one attach the backgroud 'paper' to the tank? I
                                                                                                                                                                                have a nice piece of black background and can only think of taping it
                                                                                                                                                                                on. Any other ideas?

                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks

                                                                                                                                                                                Eric




                                                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11395 From: Cire Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Couple of stupid set-up questions
                                                                                                                                                                                Hello Eric,
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                When I set up my new aquarium I too, was also unable to remove all of the label that was on the inside of my tank.  The remainder (which was a little bit) did no harm to my fish.  I am not sure if you were to use a solution - what effect that might have on you fish.  And as far as the background goes, I use tape to secure it to the back of my tank.  Either clear tape or small sections of a stronger tape.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                From Eric

                                                                                                                                                                                Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                Hello All,

                                                                                                                                                                                I've spent months researching and learning about everything from fish
                                                                                                                                                                                food to cycling a new tank - from anglefish to zebra danios. I'm now
                                                                                                                                                                                ready to strat my first tank. But of course I have two more questions -

                                                                                                                                                                                1. on the inside of my new tanks there's some adhesive left over from
                                                                                                                                                                                a lable. I certainly don't want to use any soap on it. I plan on using
                                                                                                                                                                                isopropyl alsohol on that area and other areas of the inside. Are
                                                                                                                                                                                there any issues this doing this? I plan on wiping down the inside
                                                                                                                                                                                with dry paper towles.

                                                                                                                                                                                2. how the devil does one attach the backgroud 'paper' to the tank? I
                                                                                                                                                                                have a nice piece of black background and can only think of taping it
                                                                                                                                                                                on. Any other ideas?

                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks

                                                                                                                                                                                Eric


                                                                                                                                                                                Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11396 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Couple of stupid set-up questions
                                                                                                                                                                                Eric, Isopropyl alchohol (rubbing alchohol) is perfectly safe to use
                                                                                                                                                                                on the remaining adhesive. just sponge it with clean water
                                                                                                                                                                                afterwards and wipe dry. I use rubbing alchohol all the time to wipe
                                                                                                                                                                                all inside corners of a tank clean (oil-free; even fingerprint oils)
                                                                                                                                                                                to ensure a good bond when using sealastic cement on a leaking tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Miner" <eminer1254@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > Hello All,
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I've spent months researching and learning about everything from
                                                                                                                                                                                fish
                                                                                                                                                                                > food to cycling a new tank - from anglefish to zebra danios. I'm now
                                                                                                                                                                                > ready to strat my first tank. But of course I have two more
                                                                                                                                                                                questions -
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > 1. on the inside of my new tanks there's some adhesive left over
                                                                                                                                                                                from
                                                                                                                                                                                > a lable. I certainly don't want to use any soap on it. I plan on
                                                                                                                                                                                using
                                                                                                                                                                                > isopropyl alsohol on that area and other areas of the inside. Are
                                                                                                                                                                                > there any issues this doing this? I plan on wiping down the inside
                                                                                                                                                                                > with dry paper towles.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > 2. how the devil does one attach the backgroud 'paper' to the tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                I
                                                                                                                                                                                > have a nice piece of black background and can only think of taping
                                                                                                                                                                                it
                                                                                                                                                                                > on. Any other ideas?
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Eric
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11397 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                                                                                Sorry, left out the most important part, the fish tank. ...
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                courier font pictogram follows note the scales a bit out:
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -->
                                                                                                                                                                                                                x================water line from filter==========x
                                                                                                                                                                                                                I                                                I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                I  x=====x                                       I
                                                                                                                                                                                  ______________________________I__I__   I                                       I
                                                                                                                                                                                 |      tank lights             I  I  |  I < water return line from CO2 tank     I
                                                                                                                                                                                 |------------------------------I--I--|  I .                                     I
                                                                                                                                                                                 |                              I  I  |  I/ \                                    I
                                                                                                                                                                                 |,.water level.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.I.,..,|  I |         Inject CO2 here             I
                                                                                                                                                                                 |                              I     |  I |         to make bubble              I
                                                                                                                                                                                 |     fish o=<                 I     |  I |             L                       I
                                                                                                                                                                                 |                              I     |  I               L                       I
                                                                                                                                                                                 |                              I     |  I               L                       I
                                                                                                                                                                                 |                       outlet>I     |  I       .-------L-----------------------I-----.
                                                                                                                                                                                 |               plants        _I_____|  I       |,.,.,.,L,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,|
                                                                                                                                                                                 |      OOO       *           |       |  I       |       L                             |
                                                                                                                                                                                 |   OOOO  O     -+-          | foam  |  I       |                   ._________________|
                                                                                                                                                                                 |   OOOO  O      |     inlet>|filter |  I       |                   |                 |
                                                                                                                                                                                 |   O     O     -+-          |       |  I       |                   |  power head to  |
                                                                                                                                                                                 |  OO      O     |           |       |  x=======X=                  |  helpshake up   |
                                                                                                                                                                                 |   O     O     -+-          |       |          |                   |  wtr and CO2    |
                                                                                                                                                                                 |__O_rocks_O_____|___________|_______|          |___________________|_________________|
                                                                                                                                                                                            COMMUNITY TANK                               SMALL CO2 ABSORBTION TANK
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                <CO2 bubble, control size to adjust disolved CO2 into community tank .
                                                                                                                                                                                As i said, this is only a thought and hasn't been tested at all.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                From: "Ray Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:18 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                > Nicolas,  If I gather the essence of your message correctly, you plan
                                                                                                                                                                                > on sealing the top of the tank, bubbling in CO2 until you have
                                                                                                                                                                                a
                                                                                                                                                                                > layer of pure CO2 over the water surface -- and you still plan on
                                                                                                                                                                                > having LIVE FISH???   Happy plants, but am I not following
                                                                                                                                                                                you?  Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                \                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                                > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                face=Arial size=2>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas Munro" <nmunro@q...>
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                >> alternatively, my current idea is to get a small tank with a
                                                                                                                                                                                sealed
                                                                                                                                                                                > lid (ie clamps and watertight seal) fill with water via a low
                                                                                                                                                                                side
                                                                                                                                                                                > inlet port, put a CO2 'air' bubble in the top part and a water
                                                                                                                                                                                side
                                                                                                                                                                                > low outlet port.    Theory being that the water
                                                                                                                                                                                MUST pass the CO2 and
                                                                                                                                                                                > hence probably consume the CO2 a certain amount,
                                                                                                                                                                                how much CO2 is in
                                                                                                                                                                                > the tank can be regulated by the size of the CO2
                                                                                                                                                                                'air' bubble.... any
                                                                                                                                                                                > thoughts?
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >> NOTE THIS IS
                                                                                                                                                                                JUST A THOUGHT and i havn't tried or even tested
                                                                                                                                                                                > it.... I'm just
                                                                                                                                                                                requesting feed back!
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >>   ----- Original
                                                                                                                                                                                Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                >>   From: Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                >>   To:
                                                                                                                                                                                AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                >>   Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 9:33
                                                                                                                                                                                AM
                                                                                                                                                                                >>   Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A different CO2
                                                                                                                                                                                Theory
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >>   So which is it?  I
                                                                                                                                                                                am building the DIY CO2, and I have a bubbler
                                                                                                                                                                                > in my tank, so should I
                                                                                                                                                                                do it in a different tank that has no bubbler
                                                                                                                                                                                > or use the one with the
                                                                                                                                                                                bubbler?  Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >>  
                                                                                                                                                                                nan
                                                                                                                                                                                >>   Nimish Mathur <
                                                                                                                                                                                href="mailto:nimmat4@y">nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                >>    
                                                                                                                                                                                Bruce,
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >>     
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >>     You are correct in a way that surface
                                                                                                                                                                                agitation does get rid of
                                                                                                                                                                                > excess CO2 from the water. But it still has
                                                                                                                                                                                to settle an equilibrium
                                                                                                                                                                                > with the CO2 concentration in the air? It
                                                                                                                                                                                cannot rid the water if
                                                                                                                                                                                > 100% CO2 and if a water has zero CO2, surface
                                                                                                                                                                                agitation will add some
                                                                                                                                                                                > CO2 to the water to make this equilibrium. I
                                                                                                                                                                                don't really know what
                                                                                                                                                                                > the equation for the equilibrium is, but it does
                                                                                                                                                                                work.
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >>     
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >>     Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >>     
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                >>
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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11398 From: Nan Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Daily Digests and Viruses
                                                                                                                                                                                John,
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                With all due respect, if your going to post to show a problem please let everyone know that is what you are doing.  No, we aren't paranoid, because there are people out there to that do that sort of thing, as I am sure you well know.   
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                I was similarily annoyed with the same problem, however, you should know from your years alive that you can't change everyone and someone is always going to not follow directions so find a way on your own to make things work has been my philosophy.  
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Instead of attacking others and calling names as a small child might, maybe if you were to put this problem and the solution of following directions to the group then you would have gotten a much better response in return.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Thank you for your concerns and bringing the problem to the attention of all, however undiplomatically it may be, and I am sure some of us if not all may be watching ourselves a little closer in the future.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Have a great day!
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Nan

                                                                                                                                                                                dumont53 <dumont53@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                No it was not a virus I posted the DIGEST so all could see exactly was being sent to me 2 0r 3 times daily.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                And yes I am not a "Troll". I have been keeping and breeding Fish for about 20 years. I am 70 years old retired and a Moderator in another group (Not Tropical Fish) I am also a Officer in a large Fraternal Organization. Also a Metal Detectorist and if that is not enough a Ham Radio Licensee.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                I was only trying to see if maybe we could clean the digest up a bit to make it more readable for those that are interested in reading all the posts.
                                                                                                                                                                                Apparently a number of you are so narrow minded that you feel everyone is out to do harm.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                What a shame that you can't see that what I was trying to do was make this a better group.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                OH Well!!!! At least I can say I tried. In the mean time a no longer get digests, so I solved my own problem.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                John in Nevada


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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11399 From: Nan Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Fin rot??
                                                                                                                                                                                Here are some websites on the Amano Shrimp, with short articles on care and no, don't put them in with the chiclids!
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                That is from a brief search, and I hope it helps!!
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Nan

                                                                                                                                                                                Rei - Raymond Tremor <rei_tremor@...> wrote:


                                                                                                                                                                                How does amano shrimps look like? How big can they get? Would they bother
                                                                                                                                                                                small fishes like neon tetras? What if they are put into a cockatoo cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                tank, would the shrimps be lunch for the cichlid?

                                                                                                                                                                                Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                                LoveMoAko@...


                                                                                                                                                                                Discover Yahoo!
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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11400 From: Nan Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: feeder fish (goldfish?) with platies?
                                                                                                                                                                                I wouldn't think that you should worry about that, but Goldfish aren't my thing either.  However, just out of curiosity, when you added the goldfish to the blue crayfish tank, what did you think was going to happen?  I was just curious.  And the gray was is a goldfish,  they are not just gold, they come in gray, gray and white, orange (gold) and white and even in just white, and some even have back on them instead of white.  But I would need to see a pic to be sure.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Have a great day!
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Nan

                                                                                                                                                                                helen572 <shirleycat@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                I got seven feeder fish, which I thought were goldfish, even though
                                                                                                                                                                                they didn't look like goldfish -- two were silver colored, and the
                                                                                                                                                                                others were very slim and small.  I put them in the ten-gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                                                for my blue crayfish to feed on.  Well, I had felt sorry for the
                                                                                                                                                                                crayfish -- every time I put in one of those little shrimp pellets,
                                                                                                                                                                                she would still rise up with her claws in the air.  I figured I'd get
                                                                                                                                                                                the feeder fish for her.  But...next morning, she had killed THREE of
                                                                                                                                                                                the feeder fish, but not eaten all of them -- the remains of the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                were clinging to the filter intake.  I decided to remove the other
                                                                                                                                                                                four fish and put them in with the platies.  Hubby said you shouldn't
                                                                                                                                                                                put goldfish in with platies.  He left three of the "goldfish" --
                                                                                                                                                                                small, slim, orange colored -- in the platy tank, but put the
                                                                                                                                                                                silver-colored "goldfish" back in the crayfish tank.  I don't know how
                                                                                                                                                                                he could tell, but he said the silver colored one wasn't a goldfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                So my question is:  Need I worry about putting feeder fish (whether
                                                                                                                                                                                goldfish or others kinds) in with platies?






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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11401 From: Nan Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                                                                                That was one of the things I didn't understand, the bell or dome.  If I make a bell or dome, when the CO2 bubbles out into it, then the water and CO2 will mix in the dome and it will get the saturation that it needs to help the plants thrive right?  And since I am useing a box filter in the tank I am putting the CO2 in (since this is an experiment for me, and I dont' want to remove my bubbler for my other tanks) Then the box filter will cause sufficent mixing of the water (as it pulls water in and then sends it back out of the filter) to cause the highly concentrated area of CO2 to mix, right?  
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                What suggestions would anyone offer on what to make the dome/bell out of?
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Nan

                                                                                                                                                                                Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                How about one of those upside down bells or domes, let the CO2 bubble into it and keep the top of it below the water line. That way there is a 100% CO2 and if the water equlises with it then the water at least in that part of the tank will be higher concentration.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 9:25 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                Nan,

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Pumping CO2 in a tank with a bubbler is a total waste. Bubbler will remove the excess CO2 back into the atmosphere. If you do want to push CO2 in a tank, then do it on the one without the bubbler or switch off the bubbler on this one.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: 10 May 2005 00:33
                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                So which is it?  I am building the DIY CO2, and I have a bubbler in my tank, so should I do it in a different tank that has no bubbler or use the one with the bubbler?  Thanks.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                nan
                                                                                                                                                                                Nimish Mathur < nimmat4@... > wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                Bruce,

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                You are correct in a way that surface agitation does get rid of excess CO2 from the water. But it still has to settle an equilibrium with the CO2 concentration in the air? It cannot rid the water if 100% CO2 and if a water has zero CO2, surface agitation will add some CO2 to the water to make this equilibrium. I dont really know what the equation for the equilibrium is, but it does work.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bruce Hansen
                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: 08 May 2005 04:36
                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                My understanding has always been that agitation of the surface caused CO2 to be lost from solution and increased oxygen solution, although of course the 2 processes are essentially independent.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Cheers

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Bruce (Hansen)

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                ANGFA (Qld) Inc - http://www.angfaqld.org.au/

                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 9:33 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Bit confusion here I think.

                                                                                                                                                                                Dissolved CO2 in the water is governed partially by PH or vice versa but that is when the equilibrium between the atmosphere and water is not maintained. When we talk about calculating how much CO2 is in the water, this CO2 we are talking about is the one that is in transition between CO2+H2O and the carbonic acid. The pure Co2 dissolving capacity of water is not really 100% governed by PH I think. Temperature however can have a major governing factor on this.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                I am not a chemist either so I am also looking forward to everyones views on this J

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                                From: Fish Bloke [mailto:fishbloke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: 09 April 2005 06:08
                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Fair enough.  I am here to learn, can you expand.  Was everything I said wrong, or just that bit.  :^)

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Phil.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                                From: Liz Wilhite

                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 1:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A different CO2 Theory

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                On Apr 8, 2005 7:22 PM, Fish Bloke <fishbloke@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                I am no chemist, but I think the idea of pH having a bearing on how much CO2 water can hold is wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                I am a Ph.D. chemist.  You are dead wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Liz

                                                                                                                                                                                 



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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11402 From: Nan Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                                                                                I would be interested in seeing  a pic of the finished product of what you are talking about and then hearing the results of it!
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Nan

                                                                                                                                                                                Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                alternatively, my current idea is to get a small tank with a sealed lid (ie clamps and watertight seal) fill with water via a low side inlet port, put a CO2 'air' bubble in the top part and a water side low outlet port.    Theory being that the water MUST pass the CO2 and hence probably consume the CO2 a certain amount, how much CO2 is in the tank can be regulated by the size of the CO2 'air' bubble.... any thoughts? 
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                NOTE THIS IS JUST A THOUGHT and i havn't tried or even tested it.... I'm just requesting feed back!
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                 


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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11403 From: Nan Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: feeder fish with platies?
                                                                                                                                                                                See?  I told ya someone more knowledgeable would tell ya!
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Nan

                                                                                                                                                                                FortWayneFish@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                when you bought them where they sold as goldfish or as rosey reds?  Almost sounds like you have rosey reds which are actually a minnow.

                                                                                                                                                                                Reasons feeder fish are no no's...
                                                                                                                                                                                They are treated very badly in transport,storage and even at the LFS. Usually they are delivered in 1 bag with upwards of 1500 fish in it. Way overcrowded, Usually not fed for upwards of a week prior to arrival at LFS. Most LFS don't medicate or feed the fish. This being said they are Very very prone to disease.

                                                                                                                                                                                Your crayfish probally would have enjoyed the smaller fish like feeder guppies, or even medium sized rosey reds more then the Goldfish.

                                                                                                                                                                                I have never had a crayfish but I have seen them in the wild hide food under rocks and in crevices and come back later to chow down on it.  Maybe the fish stuck to the filter might have been eaten later in the day or the next.

                                                                                                                                                                                As far as Goldfish and Platties... Platties are warm water fish Like temps between 75*-80* F  where goldfish are cold water fish who like water below 75*f
                                                                                                                                                                                so you will be adding stress to the goldfish by having them in the Platty tank. Stress a fish that is carrying a disease  and you might get an outbreak in the tank..


                                                                                                                                                                                We use Feeder fish for our Larger Cichlids. But we try and Quarantine all our fish before introduction into the main Tanks between 2-5 weeks sometimes longer.

                                                                                                                                                                                rob
                                                                                                                                                                                Indiana

                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 5/10/2005 7:10:25 PM US Eastern Standard Time, shirleycat@... writes:




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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11404 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 5/11/2005 6:17:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, sevenspringss@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                Truth is that other parameters (ammonia, nitrite, etc. concentrations) can and do vary independently from pH, depending on many facters, the least of which is the basic make up of the water itself.  So what you are saying  cannot be taken as a blanket statement.  I'm glad its so far working for you, but pH testing alone cannot be assumed okay by every one of us.  
                                                                                                                                                                                 I am saying that if you monitor your pH you will have a direct idea of how your tank is by knowing where your pH usually is if your pH is usually 7.9 and it begins to trend down your nitrates are up because ammonia to nitrite releases 3 or 5 hydrogen atoms nitrite to nitrate looses 3 or 5 hydrogen atoms so every time you convert ammonia to nitrate you get 8 more hydrogen atoms and a subsequent decrease in pH now I am not saying that one single conversion changes the pH significantly but the cumulative value uses up those buffers naturally occurring in water and your pH tends down now this would happen faster in softer water than harder but if we are talking an established correctly stocked tank then there should be no problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                  And just so you know I do not do that at this time yet but I am going to set up a couple test tanks with the same bio-load and the same filters but only change water when the pH goes down on one.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                     \                                                                                                                         I also have to take exception to your # 3 excerpt, although I'm not exactly sure of what you mean by "most filters".   However, it is one of the main functions of all filters to a greater or lesser extent (depending upon type of filter) to help eliminate ammonia and nitrites by converting these compounds into less harmful nitrates via the express use of aerobic nitrifiers, such as Nitrospira (for ammonia) and nitrobacters (for nitrite).  These bacteria thrive best in aerobic (exposed to oxygen) conditions such as is found in filters, with increased oxygen flowing past them in the water flow, and even more so in filters containing bio-wheels and bio-balls, where a thin stream (or trickle) of oxygen enriched water is constantly flowing past.
                                                                                                                                                                                 that is exactly my exemption to most filters bio ball and bio wheel when filter get physical dirt on the mechanical part on the polyester  filter bag or the filter floss the bacteria that break down the physical dirt out compete the nitrifying bacteria unless your filter is kept physically clean (no dirt) the nitrifying bacteria can't fully colonize it so the speaker made a point that the bio wheel was a way of removing mechanical filtration from biological filtration in that case the bag is the mechanical filter, the carbon the chemical, the biowheel the biological.  Yes, there is some biological filtration occurring every where in the tank and the filter but the primary source is the bio wheel.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                80 gallon south american cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                55 gallon african cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11405 From: Nan Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: A different CO2 Theory
                                                                                                                                                                                When you say the canister, if I were to put the airstone (diffuser) in the back of my filter and let the water run back into the tank that way, would that work?
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Nan

                                                                                                                                                                                Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                Yep. Not a good idea of the tank is completely sealed on the surface. There are a lot of gas exchanges that happen on the surface that does remove toxic dissolved gasses from the system. A sealed system will not be able to do that and if for some reason, the plants are not able to cope with the fish consumption of O2, the fish will have no place to get any more O2 from.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                However, the idea of having a bell like thing that fills with CO2 does work well. There is a product called carbonator at www.oxydator.de that does exactly that and it works fine. Just, not as good as pressurized systems.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Also, The best way to dissolve CO2 in the water I think is using a canister as a CO2 diffuser. I have been using it for a long time this way and it does not consume any space in the tank and does diffuse 90% of the CO2. any excess that cannot be dissolved very well is ofcourse pushed out as bubbles.

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                 


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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11406 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 5/11/2005 11:45:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, patrickmn1@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                I don't believe pH drops over time due to breaking down of food, if the tank is cared for correctly.  My current 29 gallon tank hasn't changed pH over the 2+ years it has been running.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                do you do water changes? if you do you add buffering capacity back to your tank  and keep you pH up either that or your test kit is bad my 90 gallon definitely drops in pH from after a water change to the next one in fact at one point my tank had been running nicely  for a long time I hadn't checked my pH or done any water change (why fix it if it aint broke) and I decided  to  get another  placed it in tank after appropriate  bag floating rigmarole turned it loose  dead the next am my fish where used to a pH of 5.5 this new fish was not I was not trying to have a low pH just ignored it till I had one ammonia 0 nitrites 0 nitrates I don't remember but not toxic just lowered pH due to lost buffering capacity. that was years ago and I have learned my lesson. I have had that same 90 gallon tank running except 2 moves and one leak  for 14 years running as it is since 2000 it has a wet dry trickle filter and has a plenum and its pH definitely changes
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                80 gallon south american cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                55 gallon african cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11407 From: Nan Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
                                                                                                                                                                                Bettas like still water, however, a filtration system with a gentle flow is ok.  If you add to much turbulance it could be the problem.  They just plain don't like it, I have found from experience and talking to others that have made that mistake.   Since he was already probably stressed from being in the small container, then moving around in the ride home, and then being transferred to a new aquarium, that could have been your problem.  But since I wasn't there, I can't say for sure.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Nan

                                                                                                                                                                                Trevor <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                The betta is actually considered a pretty hardy fish (which is why it
                                                                                                                                                                                survives as long as it does in the conditions most people keep it in).
                                                                                                                                                                                Perhaps you should try to figure out what went wrong before possibly
                                                                                                                                                                                repeating it again? How was the tank set up? How long have you had it?
                                                                                                                                                                                Are you sure the betta wasn't a victim of "new tank syndrome"?

                                                                                                                                                                                - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard Jolitz <emicarn@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > Greetings All.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I am looking for some suggestions on good hardy
                                                                                                                                                                                > starter fish. I have  10 gallon tank setup and the
                                                                                                                                                                                > single fish I put in it didn't do well [betta] and has
                                                                                                                                                                                > since croaked.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Anyone have any suggestions for a good hardy community
                                                                                                                                                                                > fish that is a good starter?  I've considered mollys
                                                                                                                                                                                > and/or tetras along with a betta for color. 
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Thanks for any help!
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Rich






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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11408 From: bethym99 Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: New Marine Tank - foam?
                                                                                                                                                                                Setup my new 55g marine tank a couple days ago. Just running it for a
                                                                                                                                                                                week or so and then will get the water tested at the LFS again and add
                                                                                                                                                                                some small animals if things are settling. -- Right now I'm getting
                                                                                                                                                                                familiar with the equipment and teaching the kids about "being nice to
                                                                                                                                                                                the fish's home!"

                                                                                                                                                                                So, two days in, tonight I noticed some foam on top of the water
                                                                                                                                                                                around the edges. Is this normal? I went ahead and emptied the protein
                                                                                                                                                                                skimmer (that job will now be going to my hubby, YUCK) to see if that
                                                                                                                                                                                helped. Could that be in, or is there some other explanation?

                                                                                                                                                                                I'm running a EcoSystem 60 hang on back filter, as well as a canister,
                                                                                                                                                                                and protein skimmer. There is Live Sand, some Live Rock and some Coral
                                                                                                                                                                                bone in the tank, there is a small mushroom and some worms that live
                                                                                                                                                                                on my rock... that's it.

                                                                                                                                                                                TY :-)
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11409 From: Anne Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Betta & others (tank mate??)
                                                                                                                                                                                "I have the 10gal & 2 5-gal tanks I can mix the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                up > into.. just wondering if anyone would work to
                                                                                                                                                                                put one> of the males into.. I'm thinking of maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                getting> some guppies (they're cute) & maybe putting
                                                                                                                                                                                one of the> males in (it looked good at wal-mart)..."

                                                                                                                                                                                I have one of my male betas in with 4 juli catfish and
                                                                                                                                                                                2 ottos. They get along great. I tried another male
                                                                                                                                                                                first, but he harassed the poor cories mercilessly and
                                                                                                                                                                                was banished to his own tank. Guess it depends on the
                                                                                                                                                                                beta.
                                                                                                                                                                                Anne

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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11410 From: helen572 Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Feeder fish/crayfish
                                                                                                                                                                                Nan,

                                                                                                                                                                                What did I expect? I expected the crayfish to feed on the feeder
                                                                                                                                                                                fish. I'd never had experience with feeder fish, but I figured the
                                                                                                                                                                                cray would catch one, feed on it, then another, etc. I'd put seven
                                                                                                                                                                                feeder fish in, and she killed three of them; how much she ate, I
                                                                                                                                                                                don't know, but the remains of the three feeder fish were sucked onto
                                                                                                                                                                                and were clinging to the filter intake. Now, I'm not queasy about
                                                                                                                                                                                such things, but I decided it was not good to have feeder fish remains
                                                                                                                                                                                rotting in the tank, and decided to remove the other feeder fish. The
                                                                                                                                                                                cray is just going to have to feed on veggies and shrimp pellets.
                                                                                                                                                                                The rosey reds (now with the platies) are kinda cute -- they love
                                                                                                                                                                                swimming in the aerating bubble stream. My only question at this point
                                                                                                                                                                                is, what kind of fish is the silver-colored one (maybe a fathead
                                                                                                                                                                                minnow). But I'm inclined to put him in with the platies and rosey reds.
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11411 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                    I just have doubts that the pH changes that much due to nitrates unless a. the whole thing they doc said is true, which I have doubts about, and b. you are getting a lot more nitrates that I have ever gotten (50ppm).  Water changes in my tank are every 7-10 days, and the 50 ppm was once when I missed a change or two.  I tested ammonia, nitrite, nitrates, and pH.  pH was normal (7.4-7.6, I have trouble with the exact color code, but it was the normal color), ammonia and nitrites were 0, and nitrates had gone to 50ppm.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                do you do water changes? if you do you add buffering capacity back to your tank  and keep you pH up either that or your test kit is bad my 90 gallon definitely drops in pH from after a water change to the next one in fact at one point my tank had been running nicely  for a long time I hadn't checked my pH or done any water change (why fix it if it aint broke) and I decided  to  get another  placed it in tank after appropriate  bag floating rigmarole turned it loose  dead the next am my fish where used to a pH of 5.5 this new fish was not I was not trying to have a low pH just ignored it till I had one ammonia 0 nitrites 0 nitrates I don't remember but not toxic just lowered pH due to lost buffering capacity. that was years ago and I have learned my lesson. I have had that same 90 gallon tank running except 2 moves and one leak  for 14 years running as it is since 2000 it has a wet dry trickle filter and has a plenum and its pH definitely changes
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11412 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Have LR and Protein Skimmer for Sale
                                                                                                                                                                                It is still availible.

                                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Zac Lohrenz" <zacdl@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > I have about 10 pounds of LR and a Berlin Airlift 90 (1 month old
                                                                                                                                                                                skimmer)
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I am asking (depending on zip code) $50 shipped for both.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Plz let me know.
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11413 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                Elaine,

                                                                                                                                                                                My guess is that your speaker was Tim Hovenac of Marineland. Good speaker,
                                                                                                                                                                                and he gives a lot of good information.

                                                                                                                                                                                \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                Behalf Of kritter714@...
                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 1:45 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] back to pH


                                                                                                                                                                                I was just at a lecture at our aquarium society about filtration and the
                                                                                                                                                                                speaker who has a Ph.D. in aquarium related issues (not fish farming
                                                                                                                                                                                literally aquaria) and is head of research for an aquarium product company
                                                                                                                                                                                doesn't matter which one he did not try to sell us on anything but he
                                                                                                                                                                                pointed out that as a product of the biological filter the ammonia to
                                                                                                                                                                                nitrite to nitrate conversion hydrogen ions are released and that means a
                                                                                                                                                                                decrease pH (pH relates to hydrogen) and in an established tank ALL you need
                                                                                                                                                                                to measure is pH and do a small weekly water change when pH drops in a
                                                                                                                                                                                correctly stocked tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                This does not really apply to new tanks but once established does apply.
                                                                                                                                                                                And water changes must be done to restore buffering capacity to help
                                                                                                                                                                                maintain that pH that is continually being decreased due to the nitrite
                                                                                                                                                                                cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                Also he stated that rinsing a filter plate in tap water is OK because
                                                                                                                                                                                number one the bacteria are very difficult to kill and are not killed in
                                                                                                                                                                                water pipes.
                                                                                                                                                                                Number 2 they are very sticky and are not easily removed.
                                                                                                                                                                                Number 3 that there is very little nitrifying bacteria on most filters
                                                                                                                                                                                because they are to dirty and another bacteria grows faster than the
                                                                                                                                                                                nitrifying and takes over the filter plates. So rinsing is the best thing
                                                                                                                                                                                no matter what the water used is.
                                                                                                                                                                                About filters he said the best one was whatever filter you would clean that
                                                                                                                                                                                if you wouldn't clean filters then you were just using junk.
                                                                                                                                                                                So say what you want he essentially said test pH, small frequent water
                                                                                                                                                                                changes and clean your filters frequently. The basics we should all be
                                                                                                                                                                                practicing.
                                                                                                                                                                                I have 25 years with fish and firmly believe in pH testing and that it has
                                                                                                                                                                                merit and I will stand by that esp. with this to back me up

                                                                                                                                                                                Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                80 gallon south american cichlids
                                                                                                                                                                                55 gallon african cichlids
                                                                                                                                                                                50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11414 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: oranda and telescope breed question
                                                                                                                                                                                Your goldfish is a blue scale oranda. orandas head grows (wen it is called) develops as the fish get older. The telescope head prombely was put there by mistake.
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11415 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                    I listened to him on pet fish talk.  He is a real genus, both really and sarcastically.  The inventor of bio spira!  I get it now, he got his PhD with a thesis project on nitrogen converting bacteria and discovered that the traditionally accepted bacteria were not on the filters, it was a type called nitrospira bacteria -> biospira.
                                                                                                                                                                                    Sadly he did not use the opportunity to tell us why bettas do not belong in pint bowls.  Instead, he sold the company line about how bettas like such conditions.  I guess his only choices were make the company look good, or not say anything.  Just more proof that geniuses can be corrupted.  But hay, everybody has their price.  Mine is 5 billion dollars to buy that house of tanks I've always wanted. :)  I still can't figure out this connection between nitrates and pH.  I guess it could be possible.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                Elaine,
                                                                                                                                                                                My guess is that your speaker was Tim Hovenac of Marineland. Good speaker,
                                                                                                                                                                                and he gives a lot of good information.
                                                                                                                                                                                \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11416 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 5/11/2005 7:57:09 PM Pacific Standard Time, patrickmn1@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                Water changes in my tank are every 7-10 days, and the 50 ppm was once when I missed a change or two.  I tested ammonia, nitrite, nitrates, and pH.  pH was normal (7.4-7.6, I have trouble with the exact color code, but it was the normal color), ammonia and nitrites were 0, and nitrates had gone to 50ppm.
                                                                                                                                                                                See you are doing frequent water changes you would be unlikely to see pH changes if you did not do a change until you saw a pH decrease then tested your nitrates they would be up but according to this man less than 500ppm is non toxic to freshwater as long as they grow used to it (i.e., are in the tank as it increases).
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                80 gallon south american cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                55 gallon african cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11417 From: paul helms Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Have LR and Protein Skimmer for Sale
                                                                                                                                                                                an airlift is a generic version of a skimmer....not
                                                                                                                                                                                really a skimmer
                                                                                                                                                                                --- Zac Lohrenz <zacdl@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > It is still availible.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Zac Lohrenz"
                                                                                                                                                                                > <zacdl@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > > I have about 10 pounds of LR and a Berlin Airlift
                                                                                                                                                                                > 90 (1 month old
                                                                                                                                                                                > skimmer)
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > I am asking (depending on zip code) $50 shipped
                                                                                                                                                                                > for both.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Plz let me know.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >



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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11418 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 5/11/2005 8:24:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, steve@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                My guess is that your speaker was Tim Hovenac of Marineland. Good speaker,
                                                                                                                                                                                and he gives a lot of good information.

                                                                                                                                                                                \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                You are correct it was Dr Tim great speaker I know a lot of people in our club are upset they missed the lecture.  I wish the graphs he posted were on his web site because they where great. 
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                80 gallon south american cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                55 gallon african cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11419 From: paul helms Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
                                                                                                                                                                                bettas have no problems with flow....all that i have
                                                                                                                                                                                seen love swimming in tanks with a normal flow of
                                                                                                                                                                                water. when left in bowls or ythe lie, they are
                                                                                                                                                                                generally pretty lazy. just because they can handle
                                                                                                                                                                                it does not mean they like it. it is true taht they
                                                                                                                                                                                do not njoy flow when sleeping, and will often sleep
                                                                                                                                                                                behind teh circulation pump, in my experience they do
                                                                                                                                                                                just as well in either situation, but seem to be
                                                                                                                                                                                "happier" in an actual tank
                                                                                                                                                                                --- Nan <ntalb00@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > Bettas like still water, however, a filtration
                                                                                                                                                                                > system with a gentle flow is ok. If you add to much
                                                                                                                                                                                > turbulance it could be the problem. They just plain
                                                                                                                                                                                > don't like it, I have found from experience and
                                                                                                                                                                                > talking to others that have made that mistake.
                                                                                                                                                                                > Since he was already probably stressed from being in
                                                                                                                                                                                > the small container, then moving around in the ride
                                                                                                                                                                                > home, and then being transferred to a new aquarium,
                                                                                                                                                                                > that could have been your problem. But since I
                                                                                                                                                                                > wasn't there, I can't say for sure.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Trevor <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > The betta is actually considered a pretty hardy fish
                                                                                                                                                                                > (which is why it
                                                                                                                                                                                > survives as long as it does in the conditions most
                                                                                                                                                                                > people keep it in).
                                                                                                                                                                                > Perhaps you should try to figure out what went wrong
                                                                                                                                                                                > before possibly
                                                                                                                                                                                > repeating it again? How was the tank set up? How
                                                                                                                                                                                > long have you had it?
                                                                                                                                                                                > Are you sure the betta wasn't a victim of "new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                > syndrome"?
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard Jolitz
                                                                                                                                                                                > <emicarn@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Greetings All.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > I am looking for some suggestions on good hardy
                                                                                                                                                                                > > starter fish. I have 10 gallon tank setup and the
                                                                                                                                                                                > > single fish I put in it didn't do well [betta] and
                                                                                                                                                                                > has
                                                                                                                                                                                > > since croaked.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Anyone have any suggestions for a good hardy
                                                                                                                                                                                > community
                                                                                                                                                                                > > fish that is a good starter? I've considered
                                                                                                                                                                                > mollys
                                                                                                                                                                                > > and/or tetras along with a betta for color.
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Thanks for any help!
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                > > Rich
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                > Discover Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                                                > Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online &
                                                                                                                                                                                > more. Check it out!



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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11420 From: paul helms Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Couple of stupid set-up questions
                                                                                                                                                                                1. use rubbing alcohol. it will completely evaporate
                                                                                                                                                                                rather quickly..meaning minutes and leave nothing
                                                                                                                                                                                behind. simply pour onto a cotton ball and the glue
                                                                                                                                                                                will wipe off. will not damage silicone.
                                                                                                                                                                                2. electrical tape works best. water does not make
                                                                                                                                                                                it ose stickiness, but it also does not leave behind
                                                                                                                                                                                stickiness when removed. perfect for teh application

                                                                                                                                                                                --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                > Hello All,
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > I've spent months researching and learning about
                                                                                                                                                                                > everything from fish
                                                                                                                                                                                > food to cycling a new tank - from anglefish to zebra
                                                                                                                                                                                > danios. I'm now
                                                                                                                                                                                > ready to strat my first tank. But of course I have
                                                                                                                                                                                > two more questions -
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > 1. on the inside of my new tanks there's some
                                                                                                                                                                                > adhesive left over from
                                                                                                                                                                                > a lable. I certainly don't want to use any soap on
                                                                                                                                                                                > it. I plan on using
                                                                                                                                                                                > isopropyl alsohol on that area and other areas of
                                                                                                                                                                                > the inside. Are
                                                                                                                                                                                > there any issues this doing this? I plan on wiping
                                                                                                                                                                                > down the inside
                                                                                                                                                                                > with dry paper towles.
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > 2. how the devil does one attach the backgroud
                                                                                                                                                                                > 'paper' to the tank? I
                                                                                                                                                                                > have a nice piece of black background and can only
                                                                                                                                                                                > think of taping it
                                                                                                                                                                                > on. Any other ideas?
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                > Eric
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                >



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                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11421 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                  Does that mean the plant needs more light? I have anubus nana and anubus barteri and it was fine before then it started turning yellow and then would turn brown and it the leaves would die but there are new leaves coming out. I tried Flourish by Seachem and Plant Gro by Nutrafin. What else can I do to make the plant as it was before? I have the light on almost all day (except if I go out), and only turn it off at night if I am home. Maybe the water is warm or hot that it cooks the leaves of the plant? Hehehe, could be a possibility right?
                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                   Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                  Date: 05/09/05 18:02:15
                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                                                                                  paul helms <wtfmorlok@yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                  what is your lightiung situation btw? elodia is a low
                                                                                                                                                                                  light plant but does best under 2 watts per gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                                  if it is turning yellow it is losing chloroplasts
                                                                                                                                                                                  --- Nicolas Munro <nmunro@qld.yokogawa.com.au> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                  > I went to a different LFS on the weekend which had a
                                                                                                                                                                                  > lot of nice looking plants.The LFS's Elodia was very
                                                                                                                                                                                  > very dark green.
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  > ...My Elodia is a light light green/almost yellow
                                                                                                                                                                                  > color, and i thought that was normal.    So I asked
                                                                                                                                                                                  > the guy what he does to get it DARK GREEN and he
                                                                                                                                                                                  > said just added neutrients...
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  > So i now think that my tank isn't lacking CO2
                                                                                                                                                                                  > because every thing is really fast growing, its
                                                                                                                                                                                  > lacking the neutrients I the water and I have since
                                                                                                                                                                                  > brought some Seachem Flourish plant neutrents
                                                                                                                                                                                  > (250ml) put that in my tank yesterday and this
                                                                                                                                                                                  > morning... maybe the plants are a little darker
                                                                                                                                                                                  > today not sure as yet early days.<

                                                                                                                                                                                  Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                  ..
                                                                                                                                                                                  Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 11422 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                    Which worked better in your opinion?
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                    Flourish by Seachem  or  Plant Gro by Nutrafin   my LFS has both and i brought Flourish cause a couple of the others used and recomended it.
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 3:45 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants CO2?

                                                                                                                                                                                    Does that mean the plant needs more light? I have anubus nana and anubus barteri and it was fine before then it started turning yellow and then would turn brown and it the leaves would die but there are new leaves coming out. I tried Flourish by Seachem and Plant Gro by Nutrafin. What else can I do to make the plant as it was before? I have the light on almost all day (except if I go out), and only turn it off at night if I am home. Maybe the water is warm or hot that it cooks the leaves of the plant? Hehehe, could be a possibility right?
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                     Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                    Date: 05/09/05 18:02:15
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                                    paul helms <wtfmorlok@yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                    what is your lightiung situation btw? elodia is a low
                                                                                                                                                                                    light plant but does best under 2 watts per gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                                    if it is turning yellow it is losing chloroplasts
                                                                                                                                                                                    --- Nicolas Munro <nmunro@qld.yokogawa.com.au> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                    > I went to a different LFS on the weekend which had a
                                                                                                                                                                                    > lot of nice looking plants.The LFS's Elodia was very
                                                                                                                                                                                    > very dark green.
                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                    > ...My Elodia is a light light green/almost yellow
                                                                                                                                                                                    > color, and i thought that was normal.    So I asked
                                                                                                                                                                                    > the guy what he does to get it DARK GREEN and he
                                                                                                                                                                                    > said just added neutrients...
                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                    > So i now think that my tank isn't lacking CO2
                                                                                                                                                                                    > because every thing is really fast growing, its
                                                                                                                                                                                    > lacking the neutrients I the water and I have since
                                                                                                                                                                                    > brought some Seachem Flourish plant neutrents
                                                                                                                                                                                    > (250ml) put that in my tank yesterday and this
                                                                                                                                                                                    > morning... maybe the plants are a little darker
                                                                                                                                                                                    > today not sure as yet early days.<

                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                    ..
                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11423 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: back to pH

                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, Ammonia conversion does change a bit of hydrogen ion concentration just for the fact that Ammonia is Alkaline in nature. As the bacteria consume ammonia, it effectively remove an alkaline medium from the water. This, however is a very slow process and it depends more on the total alkalinity/KH of the water, whether it will effect the PH or not. If a tank is filled with RO water, and just the basic RO right stuff used, then it is possible that the cycling process can effect the PH but in a once established aquarium, it should not really. This is one of the things I also differ from him. He said, new tanks are not susceptible to these PH changes by the biological oxidation of ammonia but old matured tanks are??? I think this should be the other way round?

                                                                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Patrick, AAFG
                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: 12 May 2005 05:05
                                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] back to pH

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                        I listened to him on pet fish talk.  He is a real genus, both really and sarcastically.  The inventor of bio spira!  I get it now, he got his PhD with a thesis project on nitrogen converting bacteria and discovered that the traditionally accepted bacteria were not on the filters, it was a type called nitrospira bacteria -> biospira.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Sadly he did not use the opportunity to tell us why bettas do not belong in pint bowls.  Instead, he sold the company line about how bettas like such conditions.  I guess his only choices were make the company look good, or not say anything.  Just more proof that geniuses can be corrupted.  But hay, everybody has their price.  Mine is 5 billion dollars to buy that house of tanks I've always wanted. :)  I still can't figure out this connection between nitrates and pH.  I guess it could be possible.

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                    Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!

                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                                                                    Elaine,
                                                                                                                                                                                    My guess is that your speaker was Tim Hovenac of Marineland. Good speaker,
                                                                                                                                                                                    and he gives a lot of good information.
                                                                                                                                                                                    \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11424 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/11/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: feeder fish and platies( Rosey Reds)
                                                                                                                                                                                    Your platties should be in a little warmer water i do believe. ( maybe someone with more livebearer experience will help here)I'd try and keep the water between 72-75*f myself. I keep all my tanks between 70-75*

                                                                                                                                                                                    Rosey Reds are actually an intresting fish to keep.  They are easily spawned in the home aquarium and make a decent community fish. The silver ones could be Flathead minnows as they are usually grown together in large ponds.

                                                                                                                                                                                    If you try feeding the crayfish live food again. i'd get 6 feeder guppies, and release 1-2 at a time. It might take the crayfish a day or two to catch and eat them. 
                                                                                                                                                                                    Just remmeber that Feeder fish CAN bring disease into your tank, so use caution and Quarantine all fish......




                                                                                                                                                                                    Your hubby is partially correct. 
                                                                                                                                                                                    Feeder fish consume oxygen and excrete ammonia in even greater quantities than longer-lived tankmates and it is not uncommon for tanks to "crash" shortly after the addition of feeders. The tank can't keep up with the ammonia production. Everything goes haywire and you start loosing fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                    rob
                                                                                                                                                                                    Indiana







                                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 5/11/2005 2:34:58 PM US Eastern Standard Time, shirleycat@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks, Rob, for the info.  I've checked out some sites with photos,
                                                                                                                                                                                    and the orangey feeder fish I've got are definitely rosey reds. Not
                                                                                                                                                                                    sure about the one silver colored feeder fish -- maybe a fathead
                                                                                                                                                                                    minnow?  In any case, I assume that it is okay to put minnows in with
                                                                                                                                                                                    platies.
                                                                                                                                                                                    Hubby said you can't put goldfish in with tropical fish because
                                                                                                                                                                                    goldfish are "dirty" -- they pee too much. I would think it would have
                                                                                                                                                                                    more to do with the temp.  As you say, golfish like cooler water and
                                                                                                                                                                                    most tropicals need warmer. So I now have three rosey reds in with
                                                                                                                                                                                    three platies, and they are doing okay. Hubby put the one
                                                                                                                                                                                    silver-colored minnow(?) in a spare two and a half gallon tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                    thinking that it was some kind of goldfish.  BTW, one site I visited
                                                                                                                                                                                    said that platies like a temp of 64 to 77 degree F.  The temp in my
                                                                                                                                                                                    platy tank is about 68 - 70.  They're very lively, eating well, and
                                                                                                                                                                                    show no signs of sickness.  Any more comments/recommendations are most
                                                                                                                                                                                    welcome.  Thanks again.




                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11425 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: back to pH

                                                                                                                                                                                    Elaine,

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                    There are a lot of reasons for a PH drop and not just the bacterial activity converting ammonia and nitrites to nitrates. It is largely dependent on the buffering capacity of the water. Rotting organic matter forms a lot of organic chemicals including carbonic acids and phenol based compounds. Bog wood can continue to release tannins for years and hence effect the PH as well. It would be incorrect to say that the PH drop you experienced was just due to bacterial activity as the PH crash by bacterial activity is so slow that even a little buffering capability of water can neutralize it. Have you experienced this in your African cichlid tank?

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                    Rotting food and proteins eventually produce ammonia. This is also a very long process and not as simple as we assume. Fish waste is also not pure ammonia but has a lot of uric acid that can bring the PH down if overstocked. Beneficial bacteria convert most ammonia based chemicals including urea and uric acid to nitrates so they are at many times trying to remove the acids that cause a PH crash as apart to causing a PH crash by their oxidation processes. It is just one of the possibilities that cause a PH drop J

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of kritter714@...
                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: 12 May 2005 02:05
                                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] back to pH

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 5/11/2005 11:45:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, patrickmn1@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't believe pH drops over time due to breaking down of food, if the tank is cared for correctly.  My current 29 gallon tank hasn't changed pH over the 2+ years it has been running.

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                    do you do water changes? if you do you add buffering capacity back to your tank  and keep you pH up either that or your test kit is bad my 90 gallon definitely drops in pH from after a water change to the next one in fact at one point my tank had been running nicely  for a long time I hadn't checked my pH or done any water change (why fix it if it aint broke) and I decided  to  get another  placed it in tank after appropriate  bag floating rigmarole turned it loose  dead the next am my fish where used to a pH of 5.5 this new fish was not I was not trying to have a low pH just ignored it till I had one ammonia 0 nitrites 0 nitrates I don't remember but not toxic just lowered pH due to lost buffering capacity. that was years ago and I have learned my lesson. I have had that same 90 gallon tank running except 2 moves and one leak  for 14 years running as it is since 2000 it has a wet dry trickle filter and has a plenum and its pH definitely changes

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                    Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                    125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                    90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                    80 gallon south american cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                    55 gallon african cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                    50 gallon temperate water tank



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                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11426 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: feeder fish and platies( Rosey Reds)

                                                                                                                                                                                    IME Platies and sword tails can be comfortable in the temperature range from 64-70F. Guppies, mollies and other livebearers may not be comfortable at those temperatures.

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                    I have also kept rosys at even lower temperature just because when I checked the temperature of their wild habitat, it was as low as 50F.

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                    3 reasons why gold fish canot be mixed with tropicals:

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                    Temperature. They prefer a temperature range of around 60F

                                                                                                                                                                                    Waste. They produce a lot more waste then any other tropical fish and are very messy eaters.

                                                                                                                                                                                    Susceptible: Like Bettas, fancy goldfish are defenseless against fin nips or other fish pecking on them.

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: 12 May 2005 07:47
                                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] feeder fish and platies( Rosey Reds)

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                    Your platties should be in a little warmer water i do believe. ( maybe someone with more livebearer experience will help here)I'd try and keep the water between 72-75*f myself. I keep all my tanks between 70-75*

                                                                                                                                                                                    Rosey Reds are actually an intresting fish to keep.  They are easily spawned in the home aquarium and make a decent community fish. The silver ones could be Flathead minnows as they are usually grown together in large ponds.

                                                                                                                                                                                    If you try feeding the crayfish live food again. i'd get 6 feeder guppies, and release 1-2 at a time. It might take the crayfish a day or two to catch and eat them. 
                                                                                                                                                                                    Just remmeber that Feeder fish CAN bring disease into your tank, so use caution and Quarantine all fish......




                                                                                                                                                                                    Your hubby is partially correct. 
                                                                                                                                                                                    Feeder fish consume oxygen and excrete ammonia in even greater quantities than longer-lived tankmates and it is not uncommon for tanks to "crash" shortly after the addition of feeders. The tank can't keep up with the ammonia production. Everything goes haywire and you start loosing fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                    rob
                                                                                                                                                                                    Indiana







                                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 5/11/2005 2:34:58 PM US Eastern Standard Time, shirleycat@... writes:



                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks, Rob, for the info.  I've checked out some sites with photos,
                                                                                                                                                                                    and the orangey feeder fish I've got are definitely rosey reds. Not
                                                                                                                                                                                    sure about the one silver colored feeder fish -- maybe a fathead
                                                                                                                                                                                    minnow?  In any case, I assume that it is okay to put minnows in with
                                                                                                                                                                                    platies.
                                                                                                                                                                                    Hubby said you can't put goldfish in with tropical fish because
                                                                                                                                                                                    goldfish are "dirty" -- they pee too much. I would think it would have
                                                                                                                                                                                    more to do with the temp.  As you say, golfish like cooler water and
                                                                                                                                                                                    most tropicals need warmer. So I now have three rosey reds in with
                                                                                                                                                                                    three platies, and they are doing okay. Hubby put the one
                                                                                                                                                                                    silver-colored minnow(?) in a spare two and a half gallon tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                    thinking that it was some kind of goldfish.  BTW, one site I visited
                                                                                                                                                                                    said that platies like a temp of 64 to 77 degree F.  The temp in my
                                                                                                                                                                                    platy tank is about 68 - 70.  They're very lively, eating well, and
                                                                                                                                                                                    show no signs of sickness.  Any more comments/recommendations are most
                                                                                                                                                                                    welcome.  Thanks again.







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                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11427 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                    I understand what you're saying; Agreed (to a certain extent ONLY) --
                                                                                                                                                                                    and it appears that you may be understanding what I mean to a certain
                                                                                                                                                                                    extent. In GENERAL, the measure of pH is tied to the amount of
                                                                                                                                                                                    ammonia and nitrites in your water, as higher ammonia concentrations
                                                                                                                                                                                    being converted to nitrites increases your total hydrogen ion
                                                                                                                                                                                    concentrations (i.e., tends to increase the acidity) -- the more
                                                                                                                                                                                    hydrogen ions that are present TENDS to result in increased acidity.
                                                                                                                                                                                    This does not take into consideration the buffering capacity of the
                                                                                                                                                                                    water. The pH (potential of Hydrogen) is a relative/selective
                                                                                                                                                                                    measurement of the hydrogen ion activity of the water, without taking
                                                                                                                                                                                    into consideration the buffering capacity (alkalinity) of the water.
                                                                                                                                                                                    Many people believe pH is a measure of alkalinity, it is not, but
                                                                                                                                                                                    indicates relative acidity - alkalinity. This pH measurement is a
                                                                                                                                                                                    measurement of the molar concentration of hydrogen, or to put it
                                                                                                                                                                                    another way, a measurement of degree of acidity or alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                    relative to the ratio of Hydrogen ions (H+)- acid, and Hydroxyl ions
                                                                                                                                                                                    (OH-) - alkaline.
                                                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                                                    Alkalinity (buffering capacity) on the other hand is a measurement of
                                                                                                                                                                                    water to resist changes in pH. It is the carbonate compounds found
                                                                                                                                                                                    in the water that results in its alkalinity (buffering capacity), the
                                                                                                                                                                                    reason why hard water is usually associated with high pH. Too,
                                                                                                                                                                                    hydroxides, borates, phosphates and silicates also add to the measure
                                                                                                                                                                                    of alkalinity, resulting in your Total Alkalinity. Alkalinity and pH
                                                                                                                                                                                    (although related) are not the same thing -- pH doesn't need to be
                                                                                                                                                                                    very much higher than 7.0 and at the same time be very high in
                                                                                                                                                                                    alkalinity. At the same time, high alkalinity/buffering capacity
                                                                                                                                                                                    will tend to prevent a fluxuation in pH, even as more hydrogen ions
                                                                                                                                                                                    (acid inducing) are introduced.
                                                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                                                    By this I hope you can see that the measurement of pH alone is not
                                                                                                                                                                                    always indicative of the addition of higher concentrations of acid
                                                                                                                                                                                    causing hydrogen ions from the conversion of Ammonia to Nitrites, as
                                                                                                                                                                                    the buffering capacity of any given sample of water can and will vary
                                                                                                                                                                                    resulting in how much the pH is allowed to move. I maintain that the
                                                                                                                                                                                    actual testing for ammonia and nitrites with these specific kits is
                                                                                                                                                                                    the only true measure of the increase of these compounds as a safe
                                                                                                                                                                                    way to monitor them, regardless of the agreed relative measurement
                                                                                                                                                                                    comparison with pH. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                    \
                                                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, kritter714@a... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                    > I am saying that if you monitor your pH you will have a direct
                                                                                                                                                                                    idea of how
                                                                                                                                                                                    > your tank is by knowing where your pH usually is if your pH is
                                                                                                                                                                                    usually 7.9 and
                                                                                                                                                                                    > it begins to trend down your nitrates are up because ammonia to
                                                                                                                                                                                    nitrite
                                                                                                                                                                                    > releases 3 or 5 hydrogen atoms nitrite to nitrate looses 3 or 5
                                                                                                                                                                                    hydrogen atoms so
                                                                                                                                                                                    > every time you convert ammonia to nitrate you get 8 more hydrogen
                                                                                                                                                                                    atoms and
                                                                                                                                                                                    > a subsequent decrease in pH now I am not saying that one single
                                                                                                                                                                                    conversion
                                                                                                                                                                                    > changes the pH significantly but the cumulative value uses up those
                                                                                                                                                                                    buffers
                                                                                                                                                                                    > naturally occurring in water and your pH tends down now this would
                                                                                                                                                                                    happen faster
                                                                                                                                                                                    > in softer water than harder but if we are talking an established
                                                                                                                                                                                    correctly
                                                                                                                                                                                    > stocked tank then there should be no problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                    > And just so you know I do not do that at this time yet but I am
                                                                                                                                                                                    going to
                                                                                                                                                                                    > set up a couple test tanks with the same bio-load and the same
                                                                                                                                                                                    filters but
                                                                                                                                                                                    > only change water when the pH goes down on one.
                                                                                                                                                                                    >

                                                                                                                                                                                    > Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                    > 125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                    > 90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                    > 80 gallon south american cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                    > 55 gallon african cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                    > 50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11428 From: Charlene Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Please help me. I am trying to set up my tank
                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi Ok I have my hearters. and my sand. Now I need to know about Max-
                                                                                                                                                                                    jet. I have 3 of them. 1 I have Max-jet 900, 2 Max-jet 1200. Should I
                                                                                                                                                                                    got anymore for my 55 ga tank. Or something eles. And if i got the
                                                                                                                                                                                    wright Max-Jet. Where should I put them in my 55 ga tank. Thank you for
                                                                                                                                                                                    helping me again. Charlene muffin4494@...
                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11429 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: oranda and telescope breed question
                                                                                                                                                                                    But has anyone else ever seen a telescope without the fan tail?
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                    The little guy was looking at me so sad; I just had to take him :)
                                                                                                                                                                                    emily

                                                                                                                                                                                    clarkmariposo25@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                    Your goldfish is a blue scale oranda. orandas head grows (wen it is called) develops as the fish get older. The telescope head prombely was put there by mistake.

                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11430 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Feeder fish/crayfish
                                                                                                                                                                                    Rosy reds are fathead minnows, and they can be silver. I have one that is silver with a black lateral stripe. Really pretty!
                                                                                                                                                                                    Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                    helen572 <shirleycat@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                    Nan,

                                                                                                                                                                                    What did I expect? I expected the crayfish to feed on the feeder
                                                                                                                                                                                    fish. I'd never had experience with feeder fish, but I figured the
                                                                                                                                                                                    cray would catch one, feed on it, then another, etc. I'd put seven
                                                                                                                                                                                    feeder fish in, and she killed three of them; how much she ate, I
                                                                                                                                                                                    don't know, but the remains of the three feeder fish were sucked onto
                                                                                                                                                                                    and were clinging to the filter intake. Now, I'm not queasy about
                                                                                                                                                                                    such things, but I decided it was not good to have feeder fish remains
                                                                                                                                                                                    rotting in the tank, and decided to remove the other feeder fish. The
                                                                                                                                                                                    cray is just going to have to feed on veggies and shrimp pellets.
                                                                                                                                                                                    The rosey reds (now with the platies) are kinda cute -- they love
                                                                                                                                                                                    swimming in the aerating bubble stream. My only question at this point
                                                                                                                                                                                    is, what kind of fish is the silver-colored one (maybe a fathead
                                                                                                                                                                                    minnow). But I'm inclined to put him in with the platies and rosey reds.




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                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11431 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Movin' on up...
                                                                                                                                                                                    Well, don't move ALL of the gravel!
                                                                                                                                                                                    Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                    Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                    That means one tank won�t be filtered at all during transition.  ?

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                    You can add gravel from your current tank and in fact it's recommended because it helps it cycle. I've never heard of using lemon juice. I'm not familiar with your filter, but you should not add all the fish at once. Add a few, and when ammonia and nitrite levels reach almost 0 and nitrates rise, you can add more. It takes a while; I'm actually still setting up my 55 gal.

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                             Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                     




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                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11432 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                    I have a large piece of wood in my new tank. Is this bad and will it lower the pH too much? I'm planning a trip to the aquarium store later to get some limestone or coral to raise alkalinity. Maybe I'll just add some baking soda to hold out until then. How much would I add to a 55 gal with a pH of 6.4 and 0 alkalinity?
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                    emily
                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11433 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                    Would ghost shrimp be compatible with zebra danios, white cloud mountain minnows, black skirt tetras, cory catfish, frogs and snails?  Also, would a blue crayfish be ok in a 29 gallon tank with an African cichlid and pleco?
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks for the help,
                                                                                                                                                                                    Angela
                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11434 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks I'll check out the lnk
                                                                                                                                                                                      red-eye



                                                                                                                                                                                      At 09:36 PM 5/9/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                      Did you never have to draw plant cells in biology or science class? :)  Chloroplasts are tiny micro organisms that are almost cells, but not quite, so they live inside plant cells.  It is kind of a symbiotic relationship because the chloroplast would not do much without a cell, and the cell would not have a food source without the chloroplast.  They contain chlorophyll, which is the green stuff that converts sun light and minerals into energy, which is what the plant needs to live. 
                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.purchon.net/cells/chloroplasts.htm
                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick , an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                      Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                      Ok I'll bite.
                                                                                                                                                                                      Can you say what chloroplasts are?
                                                                                                                                                                                      red-eye

                                                                                                                                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!  

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                                                                                                                                                                                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11435 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC - More fish
                                                                                                                                                                                      I can't figure out how folks embed a photo to an email.
                                                                                                                                                                                      Can you tell me?
                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                      red-eye





                                                                                                                                                                                      At 11:48 AM 5/9/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >I think I have room for a few more don't you.
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >DSC00392
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent
                                                                                                                                                                                      >sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail
                                                                                                                                                                                      >security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                      >.
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                                                                                                                                                                                      >the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                      >subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                      >in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11436 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC - More fish
                                                                                                                                                                                      What email program are you using?

                                                                                                                                                                                      --
                                                                                                                                                                                      Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                                                                                      Alan
                                                                                                                                                                                      --
                                                                                                                                                                                      Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                                                                                      -----
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                                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r_ohle@...
                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:31 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OFF TOPIC - More fish


                                                                                                                                                                                      I can't figure out how folks embed a photo to an email.
                                                                                                                                                                                      Can you tell me?
                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                      red-eye





                                                                                                                                                                                      At 11:48 AM 5/9/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >I think I have room for a few more don't you.
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >DSC00392
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent
                                                                                                                                                                                      >sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your
                                                                                                                                                                                      >e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks .
                                                                                                                                                                                      >Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                      >the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                      >subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                      >in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >




                                                                                                                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks . Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11437 From: joequality1980 Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                      The ghost shrimp would be fine in that type of community tank. They
                                                                                                                                                                                      are good for cleaning up leftovers, and will shuffle around the
                                                                                                                                                                                      aquarium from time to time.

                                                                                                                                                                                      I've had a crayfish in with some convicts once, and they proceeded to
                                                                                                                                                                                      have an all-you-can-eat buffet beginning with the eyes (I purposely
                                                                                                                                                                                      got him to be used as food). It depends on the cichlid and condition,
                                                                                                                                                                                      I suppose, since the convicts did have eggs at the time. Also I think
                                                                                                                                                                                      sosomeone else had this happen to them.

                                                                                                                                                                                      And FYI, putting the crayfish in w/the community tank might put in
                                                                                                                                                                                      jeopardy the lives of the catfish and frogs, and other slow-moving
                                                                                                                                                                                      bottom dwellers.

                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                      > Would ghost shrimp be compatible with zebra danios, white cloud
                                                                                                                                                                                      mountain minnows, black skirt tetras, cory catfish, frogs and snails?
                                                                                                                                                                                      Also, would a blue crayfish be ok in a 29 gallon tank with an African
                                                                                                                                                                                      cichlid and pleco?
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      > Thanks for the help,
                                                                                                                                                                                      > Angela
                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11438 From: paul helms Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                        no...how many watts/gallon?
                                                                                                                                                                                        --- Rei - Raymond Tremor <rei_tremor@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        > Does that mean the plant needs more light? I have
                                                                                                                                                                                        > anubus nana and anubus
                                                                                                                                                                                        > barteri and it was fine before then it started
                                                                                                                                                                                        > turning yellow and then would
                                                                                                                                                                                        > turn brown and it the leaves would die but there are
                                                                                                                                                                                        > new leaves coming out.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I tried Flourish by Seachem and Plant Gro by
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Nutrafin. What else can I do to
                                                                                                                                                                                        > make the plant as it was before? I have the light on
                                                                                                                                                                                        > almost all day (except
                                                                                                                                                                                        > if I go out), and only turn it off at night if I am
                                                                                                                                                                                        > home. Maybe the water is
                                                                                                                                                                                        > warm or hot that it cooks the leaves of the plant?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Hehehe, could be a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > possibility right?
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                                        > LoveMoAko@...
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > From: naser morade
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Date: 05/09/05 18:02:15
                                                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > what is your lightiung situation btw? elodia is a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > low
                                                                                                                                                                                        > light plant but does best under 2 watts per gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > if it is turning yellow it is losing chloroplasts
                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > I went to a different LFS on the weekend which had
                                                                                                                                                                                        > a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > lot of nice looking plants.The LFS's Elodia was
                                                                                                                                                                                        > very
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > very dark green.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > ...My Elodia is a light light green/almost yellow
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > color, and i thought that was normal. So I
                                                                                                                                                                                        > asked
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > the guy what he does to get it DARK GREEN and he
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > said just added neutrients...
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > So i now think that my tank isn't lacking CO2
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > because every thing is really fast growing, its
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > lacking the neutrients I the water and I have
                                                                                                                                                                                        > since
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > brought some Seachem Flourish plant neutrents
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > (250ml) put that in my tank yesterday and this
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > morning... maybe the plants are a little darker
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > today not sure as yet early days.<
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11439 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                        Emily, Rather than using sodium bicarbonate, first use calcium
                                                                                                                                                                                        carbonate (limestone) to increase the buffering capacity of the water,
                                                                                                                                                                                        if you don't think the fish will mind hard water too much -- I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                        know what kinds of fish you have. Generally, most fish can take
                                                                                                                                                                                        moderately hard water. With using baking soda first, the pH is likely
                                                                                                                                                                                        to bounce as there's no buffering capacity yet. I presume you want to
                                                                                                                                                                                        approach the parameters of your tap water to make water changing less
                                                                                                                                                                                        stressful. If the driftwood is small enough to fit in a large pot, you
                                                                                                                                                                                        might try boiling it, otherwise soak it for a week or so in a large
                                                                                                                                                                                        bucket with added baking soda, then rinse well. Can't say how much
                                                                                                                                                                                        your wood might lower the pH without knowing its size and whether its
                                                                                                                                                                                        African or Malasian driftwood. Its not bad in the sense that many
                                                                                                                                                                                        people use it, but it does have the tendency to lower the pH. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        \ --
                                                                                                                                                                                        - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar <bababanana@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I have a large piece of wood in my new tank. Is this bad and will it
                                                                                                                                                                                        lower the pH too much? I'm planning a trip to the aquarium store later
                                                                                                                                                                                        to get some limestone or coral to raise alkalinity. Maybe I'll just add
                                                                                                                                                                                        some baking soda to hold out until then. How much would I add to a 55
                                                                                                                                                                                        gal with a pH of 6.4 and 0 alkalinity?
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11440 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Movin' on up...

                                                                                                                                                                                        What does gravel have to do with my filtration comment? 

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                        From:
                                                                                                                                                                                        AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent:
                                                                                                                                                                                        Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:03 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                        To:
                                                                                                                                                                                        AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        Sub
                                                                                                                                                                                        ject: RE: [AquaticLife] Movin' on up...

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                        Well, don't move ALL of the gravel!

                                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                        Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        That means one tank won’t be filtered at all during transition.  ?

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                        You can add gravel from your current tank and in fact it's recommended because it helps it cycle. I've never heard of using lemon juice. I'm not familiar with your filter, but you should not add all the fish at once. Add a few, and when ammonia and nitrite levels reach almost 0 and nitrates rise, you can add more. It takes a while; I'm actually still setting up my 55 gal.

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                        ·   Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                         




                                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11441 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Ray W. / Mark

                                                                                                                                                                                        I’m moving into the 75 gal.  Anything I should take special care with?  Timing? Filtration (only 1 filter so what do I do?)

                                                                                                                                                                                        Can I do this all in one day or does this have to be a “process?”  Hoping for the 1 day. =)  After all, I did move them all here in 1 day in somewhat miserable conditions.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Leslie

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11442 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
                                                                                                                                                                                        i agree with paul. i have 4 bettas in regular, filtered tanks. 2 of them even have bubble wands in
                                                                                                                                                                                        their tanks and all 4 are fine with the regular flow the filter puts out. a couple of them even
                                                                                                                                                                                        like to play in the water flow and 1 of them plays in his bubbles all the time! =)

                                                                                                                                                                                        --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        > bettas have no problems with flow....all that i have
                                                                                                                                                                                        > seen love swimming in tanks with a normal flow of
                                                                                                                                                                                        > water. when left in bowls or ythe lie, they are
                                                                                                                                                                                        > generally pretty lazy. just because they can handle
                                                                                                                                                                                        > it does not mean they like it. it is true taht they
                                                                                                                                                                                        > do not njoy flow when sleeping, and will often sleep
                                                                                                                                                                                        > behind teh circulation pump, in my experience they do
                                                                                                                                                                                        > just as well in either situation, but seem to be
                                                                                                                                                                                        > "happier" in an actual tank
                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- Nan <ntalb00@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Bettas like still water, however, a filtration
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > system with a gentle flow is ok. If you add to much
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > turbulance it could be the problem. They just plain
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > don't like it, I have found from experience and
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > talking to others that have made that mistake.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Since he was already probably stressed from being in
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > the small container, then moving around in the ride
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > home, and then being transferred to a new aquarium,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > that could have been your problem. But since I
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > wasn't there, I can't say for sure.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >


                                                                                                                                                                                        I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11443 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: feeder fish and platies( Rosey Reds)

                                                                                                                                                                                        I knew Mollies and Guppies and other livebearers like warmer temps. But the swordtails and Platties come from the mountain regions and prefer colder waters. I just didn't know How cold, was acceptable.

                                                                                                                                                                                        I have seen Rosey reds in 50*F water at a few LFS. So I know they can be kept that low. Colder water means more Oxygen, lower matabolizm which in turn means less waste..

                                                                                                                                                                                        I have a 20 gallon tub with a bunch of 1/2 inch Pvc cut at 3 inch lengths scattered all over the bottom of my Rosey Red Tub.  Its powered by a HydroV sponge and an airstone, no heater. Light source Over head Flourescents at about 10 feet away..  We try to keep between 2-4 dozen in the tub at all times. We currently have about 30 baby fish in a seperate 10 gallon tank that we have netted from the tub.    they are not that hard to spawn. Just have to provide them with adequate conditions..
                                                                                                                                                                                        Like most fish ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                        Its nice to have an assortment of Fish keepers on a board like this, as long as everyone gets a long and doesn't PREACH there opinion, we all can learn a thing or two..

                                                                                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                                                                                        Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11444 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Movin' on up...
                                                                                                                                                                                        I have not been following the this thread but I hope i am answering the question that was asked....and not way off in right field.


                                                                                                                                                                                        The gravel will have some beneficial bacteria in it. Bacteria being a source of Biological filteration.

                                                                                                                                                                                        As long as the fish load was light, (not many fish) the tank was mature over a year old, the tank technically could support itself for a few weeks. If the tank has live plants and an airstone, or powerhead in it the longevity now increases.  There are a lot of people who use  only gravel and live plants in there tanks, as a filteration process.

                                                                                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                                                                                        Indiana




                                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/12/2005 12:37:48 PM US Eastern Standard Time, amjmail@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                                        What does gravel have to do with my filtration comment? 


                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11445 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Rob [AquaticLife] Movin' on up...

                                                                                                                                                                                        The tank isn’t over a year old.  It’s only been running about 2 months.  That’s why I’m wondering about moving them all at once.  =)

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                        ·         I have not been following the this thread but I hope i am answering the question that was asked....and not way off in right field.


                                                                                                                                                                                        The gravel will have some beneficial bacteria in it. Bacteria being a source of Biological filteration.

                                                                                                                                                                                        As long as the fish load was light, (not many fish) the tank was mature over a year old, the tank technically could support itself for a few weeks. If the tank has live plants and an airstone, or powerhead in it the longevity now increases.  There are a lot of people who use  only gravel and live plants in there tanks, as a filteration process.

                                                                                                                                                                                        rob
                                                                                                                                                                                        Indiana




                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11446 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
                                                                                                                                                                                        When one of my bettas died recently, I moved up my other plus a new betta each to a new 2 gal. aquarium. They seem to like it and 2 gal should be plenty of room for an individual fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                        Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        i agree with paul. i have 4 bettas in regular, filtered tanks. 2 of them even have bubble wands in
                                                                                                                                                                                        their tanks and all 4 are fine with the regular flow the filter puts out. a couple of them even
                                                                                                                                                                                        like to play in the water flow and 1 of them plays in his bubbles all the time! =)

                                                                                                                                                                                        --- paul helms wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        > bettas have no problems with flow....all that i have
                                                                                                                                                                                        > seen love swimming in tanks with a normal flow of
                                                                                                                                                                                        > water. when left in bowls or ythe lie, they are
                                                                                                                                                                                        > generally pretty lazy. just because they can handle
                                                                                                                                                                                        > it does not mean they like it. it is true taht they
                                                                                                                                                                                        > do not njoy flow when sleeping, and will often sleep
                                                                                                                                                                                        > behind teh circulation pump, in my experience they do
                                                                                                                                                                                        > just as well in either situation, but seem to be
                                                                                                                                                                                        > "happier" in an actual tank
                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- Nan wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Bettas like still water, however, a filtration
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > system with a gentle flow is ok. If you add to much
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > turbulance it could be the problem. They just plain
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > don't like it, I have found from experience and
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > talking to others that have made that mistake.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Since he was already probably stressed from being in
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > the small container, then moving around in the ride
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > home, and then being transferred to a new aquarium,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > that could have been your problem. But since I
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > wasn't there, I can't say for sure.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >


                                                                                                                                                                                        I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!



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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11447 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Ray W. / Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                        I wouldn't do it all in one day unless the 75 is established. I've killed fish by moving too many guppies into a new setup, although i also didn't acclimate them properly. Then again, when I moved up my 2 fancy goldfish from a 15 to a 20, I did it in one day and they were fine, but I used all of the gravel and lots of water from the old tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        When I move my guppies and danios into my 20 gal, I'll probably do it in one or two days because the 20 gal. is an established goldfish tank so there is plenty of bacteria to deal with the little guys. My new 55 gal is cycled now so the fancy goldfish are about to join the comets there :) I used the comets for cycling.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        emily

                                                                                                                                                                                        Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        I�m moving into the 75 gal.  Anything I should take special care with?  Timing? Filtration (only 1 filter so what do I do?)

                                                                                                                                                                                        Can I do this all in one day or does this have to be a �process?�  Hoping for the 1 day. =)  After all, I did move them all here in 1 day in somewhat miserable conditions.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Leslie

                                                                                                                                                                                         



                                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11448 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Movin' on up...
                                                                                                                                                                                        I must have misunderstood? The used gravel will contain bacteria to help with the biological filter.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                        Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        What does gravel have to do with my filtration comment? 

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                        From:
                                                                                                                                                                                        AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent:
                                                                                                                                                                                        Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:03 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                        To:
                                                                                                                                                                                        AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        Sub
                                                                                                                                                                                        ject: RE: [AquaticLife] Movin' on up...

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                        Well, don't move ALL of the gravel!

                                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                        Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        That means one tank won�t be filtered at all during transition.  ?

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                        You can add gravel from your current tank and in fact it's recommended because it helps it cycle. I've never heard of using lemon juice. I'm not familiar with your filter, but you should not add all the fish at once. Add a few, and when ammonia and nitrite levels reach almost 0 and nitrates rise, you can add more. It takes a while; I'm actually still setting up my 55 gal.

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                           Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                         




                                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        .
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter





                                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11449 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                        The stupid piece of wood costed $30 >:(
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        I''ll try the limestone. But my water is already hard, so why would alkalinity be 0?
                                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                        Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        Emily, Rather than using sodium bicarbonate, first use calcium
                                                                                                                                                                                        carbonate (limestone) to increase the buffering capacity of the water,
                                                                                                                                                                                        if you don't think the fish will mind hard water too much -- I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                        know what kinds of fish you have. Generally, most fish can take
                                                                                                                                                                                        moderately hard water. With using baking soda first, the pH is likely
                                                                                                                                                                                        to bounce as there's no buffering capacity yet. I presume you want to
                                                                                                                                                                                        approach the parameters of your tap water to make water changing less
                                                                                                                                                                                        stressful. If the driftwood is small enough to fit in a large pot, you
                                                                                                                                                                                        might try boiling it, otherwise soak it for a week or so in a large
                                                                                                                                                                                        bucket with added baking soda, then rinse well. Can't say how much
                                                                                                                                                                                        your wood might lower the pH without knowing its size and whether its
                                                                                                                                                                                        African or Malasian driftwood. Its not bad in the sense that many
                                                                                                                                                                                        people use it, but it does have the tendency to lower the pH. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        \ --
                                                                                                                                                                                        - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I have a large piece of wood in my new tank. Is this bad and will it
                                                                                                                                                                                        lower the pH too much? I'm planning a trip to the aquarium store later
                                                                                                                                                                                        to get some limestone or coral to raise alkalinity. Maybe I'll just add
                                                                                                                                                                                        some baking soda to hold out until then. How much would I add to a 55
                                                                                                                                                                                        gal with a pH of 6.4 and 0 alkalinity?
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > emily




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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11450 From: Nan Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Betta & others (tank mate??)
                                                                                                                                                                                        That has been my experience.  Some Bettas are real easy going, like my pastel green he has been in with a female in a 10 gallon for spawning for 2 weeks or better now (spawn, she is still full of eggs, he just hasn't made her a grand enough nest, I think..*LOL*) and both are doing wonderful.  No nips, no bites, no problems.  However, I have another male Jasper (a green marble) and you can't leave the female in there too long and you have to watch them closely, he will kill her given the chance.  He has done one already.  It all depends on the fish, I think.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Nan

                                                                                                                                                                                        Anne <md_gustoby@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        "I have the 10gal & 2 5-gal tanks I can mix the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                        up > into..  just wondering if anyone would work to
                                                                                                                                                                                        put one> of the males into..  I'm thinking of maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                        getting> some guppies (they're cute) & maybe putting
                                                                                                                                                                                        one of the> males in (it looked good at wal-mart)..."

                                                                                                                                                                                        I have one of my male betas in with 4 juli catfish and
                                                                                                                                                                                        2 ottos. They get along great. I tried another male
                                                                                                                                                                                        first, but he harassed the poor cories mercilessly and
                                                                                                                                                                                        was banished to his own tank. Guess it depends on the
                                                                                                                                                                                        beta.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Anne


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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11451 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                            Well, I really don't buy this idea that nitrates are harmless, especially if they are allowed to rise to 500ppm.  I have seen too many connections between high nitrates and fish starting to die, and heard too many similar findings by other regular aquarists, to believe fish can adjust to such high levels.  At some point, the nitrate will burn the fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                        See you are doing frequent water changes you would be unlikely to see pH changes if you did not do a change until you saw a pH decrease then tested your nitrates they would be up but according to this man less than 500ppm is non toxic to freshwater as long as they grow used to it (i.e., are in the tank as it increases).
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11452 From: Nan Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Feeder fish/crayfish
                                                                                                                                                                                        I meant no disrespect by the comment, I have ran into some people in other groups I belong to that thought that when they put the feeders in with whomever they were feeding, that they one being fed would eat alllll of the first one it killed before going after another, etc...*Chuckle* Yes, I would suggest takeing a net and cleaning out the remains.  I was helping a friend with GA Dept Of Wildlife and had a small alligator snapping turtle baby in a 10 gallon, he went to town on some minnows I brought home for him but left me bunches of partial eaten remains...needless to say cleaning his tank wasn't my funnest moment..*LOL*
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        I would hazard to say that it is a goldfish.  My son has feeders that have grown into gorgeous goldfish, and one is gray as well.  If the only difference is the color, I would hazard to guess than he is a goldfish of another color..*chuckle*
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Nan

                                                                                                                                                                                        helen572 <shirleycat@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        Nan,

                                                                                                                                                                                        What did I expect?  I expected the crayfish to feed on the feeder
                                                                                                                                                                                        fish.     I'd never had experience with feeder fish, but I figured the
                                                                                                                                                                                        cray would catch one, feed on it, then another, etc. I'd put seven
                                                                                                                                                                                        feeder fish in, and she killed three of them; how much she ate, I
                                                                                                                                                                                        don't know, but the remains of the three feeder fish were sucked onto
                                                                                                                                                                                        and were clinging to the filter intake.  Now, I'm not queasy about
                                                                                                                                                                                        such things, but I decided it was not good to have feeder fish remains
                                                                                                                                                                                        rotting in the tank, and decided to remove the other feeder fish. The
                                                                                                                                                                                        cray is just going to have to feed on veggies and shrimp pellets.
                                                                                                                                                                                        The rosey reds (now with the platies) are kinda cute -- they love
                                                                                                                                                                                        swimming in the aerating bubble stream. My only question at this point
                                                                                                                                                                                        is, what kind of fish is the silver-colored one (maybe a fathead
                                                                                                                                                                                        minnow). But I'm inclined to put him in with the platies and rosey reds. 





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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11453 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Power Head for UGF
                                                                                                                                                                                        I have a 29 gallon set up I bought second hand with a Magnum HOT canister filter and a UGF using two airlines from an air pump.  Should I have two power heads (one on each tube from the UGF)?  Are power heads the same, or is there a big difference among manufacturers?  What should I look for?
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks for the advice,
                                                                                                                                                                                        Angela
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                        using an air pump to run a ugf will not create enough
                                                                                                                                                                                        suction to go through deep beds of gravel.  use a
                                                                                                                                                                                        power head water pump on top of the uplift tube
                                                                                                                                                                                        instead of the air pump.  they draw 160-250 gph
                                                                                                                                                                                        instead of the minimal draw by the air returning up
                                                                                                                                                                                        the tube.
                                                                                                                                                                                        --- Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > what do you mean by this?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > just remember to use power heads with deep beds, air
                                                                                                                                                                                        > pumps will not form a strong enough suction for the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > ugf to work. that would be a situation where
                                                                                                                                                                                        > problems
                                                                                                                                                                                        > occur with toxic gases
                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- Steve Szabo wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Emily,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > A deeper bed will give you more biological
                                                                                                                                                                                        > activity.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > I've seen as much as 5"
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > of gravel in a tank with a UGF, though I've never
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > gone that deep myself.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Gold fish are "dirty" fish in that they excrete a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > lot of ammonia. The more
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > gravel bed you have, the more bacteria can
                                                                                                                                                                                        > colonize
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > it and take care of the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > load from the goldfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 12:19 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help with
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > I did add some gravel already, but I think I could
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > bring in some more. Is a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > few inches of gravel too much for a UGF?? I wanted
                                                                                                                                                                                        > a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > deeper substrate in the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > new planted tank because the goldfish like to dig
                                                                                                                                                                                        > up
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Trevor wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Why should it matter whether she's using a UGF in
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > both tanks? The
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > gravel from the established tank should have
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > bacteria in it no
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > what kind of filter she's using (or even if she
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > weren't using a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > filter).
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo"
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > type of filtration in your other tank--the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > UGF--you can take some
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > of the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > substrate from that tank and place it in the new
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > tank to add to
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > your
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > bacterial colonies.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11454 From: Donna Ransome Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: North Jersey LFS

                                                                                                                                                                                        Ray in North Jersey, I am in North Jersey as well.  What is your favorite LFS?  Are there any interesting aquarium groups/clubs nearby?

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                        Donna in North Jersey

                                                                                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@...
                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:12 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] back to pH

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                        Elaine,  Noticed your post and find it most interesting, with much informative data.  However, is it possible that you may have misunderstood this lecturer?  pH testing alone, cannot properly monitor the varying water parameters of all aquarium conditions.  Perhaps you've seemingly observed up 'till now that your water has allowed pH testing alone, with other parameters not getting out of hand between water changes.  Truth is that other parameters (ammonia, nitrite, etc. concentrations) can and do vary independently from pH, depending on many facters, the least of which is the basic make up of the water itself.  So what you are saying  cannot be taken as a blanket statement.  I'm glad its so far working for you, but pH testing alone cannot be assumed okay by every one of us.                     &n bsp;                 \                                                                                                                         I also have to take exception to your # 3 excerpt, although I'm not exactly sure of what you mean by "most filters".   However, it is one of the main functions o f all filters to a greater or lesser extent (depending upon type of filter) to help eliminate ammonia and nitrites by converting these compounds into less harmful nitrates via the express use of aerobic nitrifiers, such as Nitrospira (for ammonia) and nitrobacters (for nitrite).  These bacteria thrive best in aerobic (exposed to oxygen) conditions such as is found in filters, with increased oxygen flowing past them in the water flow, and even more so in filters containing bio-wheels and bio-balls, where a thin stream (or trickle) of oxygen enriched water is constantly flowing past.                 \                                                    & nbsp;                                                                     Ray (in North Jersey)                                                                                               2   150's                                                                                                                 2   125's                                                  ;                                                              4   100's                                                                                                                 18   50's                                                                                                                12   40's              Various Central, South American and African Cichlids, Tetras,                &nb sp;                                                                                  6     26's              Barbs, Livebearers, Killifish, etc.                                                              ;                                    12   20's                                                                                                              24   15's               &nbs p;                                                                                               20   10's                                                                      ;                                                                                                                  

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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11455 From: Nan Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
                                                                                                                                                                                        Ok, I won't argue the point, but I would like to know your theory  on why the betta died then?
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Nan

                                                                                                                                                                                        paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        bettas have no problems with flow....all that i have
                                                                                                                                                                                        seen love swimming in tanks with a normal flow of
                                                                                                                                                                                        water.  when left in bowls or ythe lie, they are
                                                                                                                                                                                        generally pretty lazy.  just because they can handle
                                                                                                                                                                                        it does not mean they like it.  it is true taht they
                                                                                                                                                                                        do not njoy flow when sleeping, and will often sleep
                                                                                                                                                                                        behind teh circulation pump, in my experience they do
                                                                                                                                                                                        just as well in either situation, but seem to be
                                                                                                                                                                                        "happier" in an actual tank
                                                                                                                                                                                        --- Nan <ntalb00@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Bettas like still water, however, a filtration
                                                                                                                                                                                        > system with a gentle flow is ok.  If you add to much
                                                                                                                                                                                        > turbulance it could be the problem.  They just plain
                                                                                                                                                                                        > don't like it, I have found from experience and
                                                                                                                                                                                        > talking to others that have made that mistake. 
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Since he was already probably stressed from being in
                                                                                                                                                                                        > the small container, then moving around in the ride
                                                                                                                                                                                        > home, and then being transferred to a new aquarium,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > that could have been your problem.  But since I
                                                                                                                                                                                        > wasn't there, I can't say for sure.

                                                                                                                                                                                        > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Trevor <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > The betta is actually considered a pretty hardy fish
                                                                                                                                                                                        > (which is why it
                                                                                                                                                                                        > survives as long as it does in the conditions most
                                                                                                                                                                                        > people keep it in).
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Perhaps you should try to figure out what went wrong
                                                                                                                                                                                        > before possibly
                                                                                                                                                                                        > repeating it again? How was the tank set up? How
                                                                                                                                                                                        > long have you had it?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Are you sure the betta wasn't a victim of "new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                        > syndrome"?
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard Jolitz
                                                                                                                                                                                        > <emicarn@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Greetings All.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > I am looking for some suggestions on good hardy
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > starter fish. I have  10 gallon tank setup and the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > single fish I put in it didn't do well [betta] and
                                                                                                                                                                                        > has
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > since croaked.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Anyone have any suggestions for a good hardy
                                                                                                                                                                                        > community
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > fish that is a good starter?  I've considered
                                                                                                                                                                                        > mollys
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > and/or tetras along with a betta for color. 
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Thanks for any help!
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Rich
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >


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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11456 From: Nan Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
                                                                                                                                                                                        I have 2 bettas in seperate 10 gallon tanks.  One has no bubble wand of any kind, the other does across the entire back of his tank.  The one that has none has regular filtration and hangs out with a bunch of clams to help keep his tank clean.  The other one has a slightly lower adjustment to his filtration, and he too will play in the bubbles. However, I did have a male in the 1st 10 gallon (an adult) and he died.  He was so aggitated from my best guess, since he had no signs of illness, that I could only assume that he had too much turbulance and got stressed and died.  Now, I can admit when I am wrong, and in this case I might very well be. However, in the wild, these species of fish prefer lakes and streams and rivers that are slow moving, so it would be my best guess that they would prefer low turbulance aquatic habitats. 
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Nan

                                                                                                                                                                                        Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        i agree with paul. i have 4 bettas in regular, filtered tanks. 2 of them even have bubble wands in
                                                                                                                                                                                        their tanks and all 4 are fine with the regular flow the filter puts out. a couple of them even
                                                                                                                                                                                        like to play in the water flow and 1 of them plays in his bubbles all the time! =)

                                                                                                                                                                                        --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        > bettas have no problems with flow....all that i have
                                                                                                                                                                                        > seen love swimming in tanks with a normal flow of
                                                                                                                                                                                        > water.  when left in bowls or ythe lie, they are
                                                                                                                                                                                        > generally pretty lazy.  just because they can handle
                                                                                                                                                                                        > it does not mean they like it.  it is true taht they
                                                                                                                                                                                        > do not njoy flow when sleeping, and will often sleep
                                                                                                                                                                                        > behind teh circulation pump, in my experience they do
                                                                                                                                                                                        > just as well in either situation, but seem to be
                                                                                                                                                                                        > "happier" in an actual tank
                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- Nan <ntalb00@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Bettas like still water, however, a filtration
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > system with a gentle flow is ok.  If you add to much
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > turbulance it could be the problem.  They just plain
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > don't like it, I have found from experience and
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > talking to others that have made that mistake. 
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Since he was already probably stressed from being in
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > the small container, then moving around in the ride
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > home, and then being transferred to a new aquarium,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > that could have been your problem.  But since I
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > wasn't there, I can't say for sure.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > 
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >


                                                                                                                                                                                        I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!



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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11457 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
                                                                                                                                                                                            It is important to consider where bettas come from.  All the real pictures of betta hunters and the old aquaculture book I read talk about large, slightly flowing bodies of water.  These are swamps, drainage ditches that are wet all year, and rice fields that are drained back into those ditches and swamps.  They probably do end up in some small puddles every now and then, but that is probably when the rice fields are drained and some get left behind.  Those are then picked up and taken to town for fighting or selling.  My opinion is that they come from water with a flow similar to the bottom area of a tank with a good filter on it.  Mine have always liked swimming in the flow and sleep under the plants or behind the overflow.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                        bettas have no problems with flow....all that i have
                                                                                                                                                                                        seen love swimming in tanks with a normal flow of
                                                                                                                                                                                        water.  when left in bowls or ythe lie, they are
                                                                                                                                                                                        generally pretty lazy.  just because they can handle
                                                                                                                                                                                        it does not mean they like it.  it is true taht they
                                                                                                                                                                                        do not njoy flow when sleeping, and will often sleep
                                                                                                                                                                                        behind teh circulation pump, in my experience they do
                                                                                                                                                                                        just as well in either situation, but seem to be
                                                                                                                                                                                        "happier" in an actual tank
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11458 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
                                                                                                                                                                                            A properly filtered tank probably has a flow similar to the creeks and swamps that bettas come from.  Most fish would be unhappy in a tank where the filter was so strong they were pushed around in the water all the time.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                        I have 2 bettas in seperate 10 gallon tanks.  One has no bubble wand of any kind, the other does across the entire back of his tank.  The one that has none has regular filtration and hangs out with a bunch of clams to help keep his tank clean.  The other one has a slightly lower adjustment to his filtration, and he too will play in the bubbles. However, I did have a male in the 1st 10 gallon (an adult) and he died.  He was so aggitated from my best guess, since he had no signs of illness, that I could only assume that he had too much turbulance and got stressed and died.  Now, I can admit when I am wrong, and in this case I might very well be. However, in the wild, these species of fish prefer lakes and streams and rivers that are slow moving, so it would be my best guess that they would prefer low turbulance aquatic habitats. 
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Nan
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11459 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: feeding snails Green beans
                                                                                                                                                                                        Just wondering if there was a certain type. Like only frozen or can I
                                                                                                                                                                                        use canned ones should they be no salt or does it matter thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11460 From: kd7poe Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                        I find it very difficult to believe the teachings of this Phd from
                                                                                                                                                                                        Marineland. If this were true, and I don't believe it is, then you
                                                                                                                                                                                        can throw out the window everything I have learned over 20+ years of
                                                                                                                                                                                        fishkeeping. I will list several things that I find it hard to
                                                                                                                                                                                        believe.

                                                                                                                                                                                        1) I do not believe that Nitrates have a Major affect on PH. Yes
                                                                                                                                                                                        Ammonia and Nitrite do, but if you wait for the PH to change I think
                                                                                                                                                                                        you will probably have a major ammonia spike. 500ppm? I can't even
                                                                                                                                                                                        imagine a tank with this high a count. I think everything would be
                                                                                                                                                                                        dead or dying. Besides if you change the water every week, and you
                                                                                                                                                                                        use Ph as your parameter, why do you bother testing the PH.

                                                                                                                                                                                        2)I believe this is a quote "the bacteria that break down the
                                                                                                                                                                                        physical dirt out compete the nitrifying bacteria" I don't believe
                                                                                                                                                                                        there is a bacteria that breaks down the physical dirt. If so we
                                                                                                                                                                                        would never have to change the media. I believe that the nitrifying
                                                                                                                                                                                        bacteria cuts down on the toxicity of the physical dirt but does not
                                                                                                                                                                                        change its character. Therefore we change the media when our filter
                                                                                                                                                                                        flow is diminished.

                                                                                                                                                                                        3) I have been led to believe that The "Good" Bacteria, once
                                                                                                                                                                                        established, is all over the tank, water. filter, media, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Although I believe by using Bio Wheels, Bio Balls, Bio Tubes etc we
                                                                                                                                                                                        give it additional places to adhere.

                                                                                                                                                                                        4) PH does change, not due to the Nitrates, but due to the factors
                                                                                                                                                                                        and/or ingredients of our tank. I know mine will change when I do a
                                                                                                                                                                                        water change, if I don't add a PH buffer.

                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm sure I probably have missed something but these are the items
                                                                                                                                                                                        that stick out right now.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Not everyone will agree on all these, but that is what makes this
                                                                                                                                                                                        such a interesting HOBBY. We may not all do things the same way but
                                                                                                                                                                                        hopefuly the end result is a Healthy Aquarium.

                                                                                                                                                                                        John in Nevada
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11461 From: paul helms Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                        nitrate of 500 ppm is not unheard of. i have seen
                                                                                                                                                                                        systems that ran many years with large fish that were
                                                                                                                                                                                        unreadable because they were so far beyind the testing
                                                                                                                                                                                        kits, with all the fish thriving. when new fish are
                                                                                                                                                                                        added they die within hours, but the exsiting fish are
                                                                                                                                                                                        fine! wierd
                                                                                                                                                                                        --- kd7poe <dumont53@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I find it very difficult to believe the teachings of
                                                                                                                                                                                        > this Phd from
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Marineland. If this were true, and I don't believe
                                                                                                                                                                                        > it is, then you
                                                                                                                                                                                        > can throw out the window everything I have learned
                                                                                                                                                                                        > over 20+ years of
                                                                                                                                                                                        > fishkeeping. I will list several things that I find
                                                                                                                                                                                        > it hard to
                                                                                                                                                                                        > believe.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > 1) I do not believe that Nitrates have a Major
                                                                                                                                                                                        > affect on PH. Yes
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Ammonia and Nitrite do, but if you wait for the PH
                                                                                                                                                                                        > to change I think
                                                                                                                                                                                        > you will probably have a major ammonia spike.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > 500ppm? I can't even
                                                                                                                                                                                        > imagine a tank with this high a count. I think
                                                                                                                                                                                        > everything would be
                                                                                                                                                                                        > dead or dying. Besides if you change the water every
                                                                                                                                                                                        > week, and you
                                                                                                                                                                                        > use Ph as your parameter, why do you bother testing
                                                                                                                                                                                        > the PH.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > 2)I believe this is a quote "the bacteria that break
                                                                                                                                                                                        > down the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > physical dirt out compete the nitrifying bacteria" I
                                                                                                                                                                                        > don't believe
                                                                                                                                                                                        > there is a bacteria that breaks down the physical
                                                                                                                                                                                        > dirt. If so we
                                                                                                                                                                                        > would never have to change the media. I believe that
                                                                                                                                                                                        > the nitrifying
                                                                                                                                                                                        > bacteria cuts down on the toxicity of the physical
                                                                                                                                                                                        > dirt but does not
                                                                                                                                                                                        > change its character. Therefore we change the media
                                                                                                                                                                                        > when our filter
                                                                                                                                                                                        > flow is diminished.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > 3) I have been led to believe that The "Good"
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Bacteria, once
                                                                                                                                                                                        > established, is all over the tank, water. filter,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > media, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Although I believe by using Bio Wheels, Bio Balls,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Bio Tubes etc we
                                                                                                                                                                                        > give it additional places to adhere.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > 4) PH does change, not due to the Nitrates, but due
                                                                                                                                                                                        > to the factors
                                                                                                                                                                                        > and/or ingredients of our tank. I know mine will
                                                                                                                                                                                        > change when I do a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > water change, if I don't add a PH buffer.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I'm sure I probably have missed something but these
                                                                                                                                                                                        > are the items
                                                                                                                                                                                        > that stick out right now.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Not everyone will agree on all these, but that is
                                                                                                                                                                                        > what makes this
                                                                                                                                                                                        > such a interesting HOBBY. We may not all do things
                                                                                                                                                                                        > the same way but
                                                                                                                                                                                        > hopefuly the end result is a Healthy Aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > John in Nevada
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11462 From: paul helms Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
                                                                                                                                                                                        yup

                                                                                                                                                                                        --- "Patrick, AAFG" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > It is important to consider where bettas come
                                                                                                                                                                                        > from. All the real
                                                                                                                                                                                        > pictures of betta hunters and the old aquaculture
                                                                                                                                                                                        > book I read talk about
                                                                                                                                                                                        > large, slightly flowing bodies of water. These are
                                                                                                                                                                                        > swamps, drainage ditches
                                                                                                                                                                                        > that are wet all year, and rice fields that are
                                                                                                                                                                                        > drained back into those
                                                                                                                                                                                        > ditches and swamps. They probably do end up in some
                                                                                                                                                                                        > small puddles every now
                                                                                                                                                                                        > and then, but that is probably when the rice fields
                                                                                                                                                                                        > are drained and some get
                                                                                                                                                                                        > left behind. Those are then picked up and taken to
                                                                                                                                                                                        > town for fighting or
                                                                                                                                                                                        > selling. My opinion is that they come from water
                                                                                                                                                                                        > with a flow similar to the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > bottom area of a tank with a good filter on it.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Mine have always liked
                                                                                                                                                                                        > swimming in the flow and sleep under the plants or
                                                                                                                                                                                        > behind the overflow.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank
                                                                                                                                                                                        > stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                        > bettas have no problems with flow....all that i have
                                                                                                                                                                                        > seen love swimming in tanks with a normal flow of
                                                                                                                                                                                        > water. when left in bowls or ythe lie, they are
                                                                                                                                                                                        > generally pretty lazy. just because they can handle
                                                                                                                                                                                        > it does not mean they like it. it is true taht they
                                                                                                                                                                                        > do not njoy flow when sleeping, and will often sleep
                                                                                                                                                                                        > behind teh circulation pump, in my experience they
                                                                                                                                                                                        > do
                                                                                                                                                                                        > just as well in either situation, but seem to be
                                                                                                                                                                                        > "happier" in an actual tank



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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11463 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Movin' on up...

                                                                                                                                                                                        Yes, I’m aware.

                                                                                                                                                                                         

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                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                        From:
                                                                                                                                                                                        AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 3:12 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                        To:
                                                                                                                                                                                        AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        Sub
                                                                                                                                                                                        ject: RE: [AquaticLife] Movin' on up...

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                        I must have misunderstood? The used gravel will contain bacteria to help with the biological filter.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                        Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        What does gravel have to do with my filtration comment? 

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:03 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        Sub j ect: RE: [AquaticLife] Movin' on up...

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                        Well, don't move ALL of the gravel!

                                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                        Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        That means one tank won’t be filtered at all during transition.  ?

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                        You can add gravel from your current tank and in fact it's recommended because it helps it cycle. I've never heard of using lemon juice. I'm not familiar with your filter, but you should not add all the fish at once. Add a few, and when ammonia and nitrite levels reach almost 0 and nitrates rise, you can add more. It takes a while; I'm actually still setting up my 55 gal.

                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                        ·         Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                         




                                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        .
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter






                                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11464 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Ray W. / Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                        Leslie, I gather the 75 has all new water(?). As I presume you must
                                                                                                                                                                                        have read the many posts in reference to any new tank needing to be
                                                                                                                                                                                        cycled, since you've been with this group now a little while. So,
                                                                                                                                                                                        regardless of how you first moved them all there, to play it safe you
                                                                                                                                                                                        need to get the tank cycled with a colony of nitrifying bacteria. I
                                                                                                                                                                                        would use a good amount of the gravel from the old tank to transfer to
                                                                                                                                                                                        the 75 gal (as is, no washing). Likewise, I'd use 50% of the water in
                                                                                                                                                                                        your old tank to add to your 75. Fill the balance of both tanks using
                                                                                                                                                                                        de-chloramined water. If you can now wait (which you really should) at
                                                                                                                                                                                        least four weeks before starting to slowly add fish and finish up
                                                                                                                                                                                        adding them two weeks later, that would be the best. Hopefully, you
                                                                                                                                                                                        may just experience a mini-cycle, in which case you should be able to
                                                                                                                                                                                        move the fish in much sooner. However, If you can't wait, start now
                                                                                                                                                                                        adding your fish slowly to the 75, checking ammonia after the first
                                                                                                                                                                                        week to 10 days and both ammonia and nitites after two weeks, making
                                                                                                                                                                                        partial water changes as needed, and continually slowly adding your
                                                                                                                                                                                        fish while keeping an eye on these test results. The later you can
                                                                                                                                                                                        wait to add the remainder of the fish, the better, depending upon test
                                                                                                                                                                                        results. As you only have one filter, transfer that to the 75 after
                                                                                                                                                                                        the first 9 days. Don't have to worry about establishing bacteria in
                                                                                                                                                                                        it, it already has a good colony, but will be needed if you plan to add
                                                                                                                                                                                        more fish. In the meantime, until you get all the fish transferred,
                                                                                                                                                                                        you're going to have to make continual (perhaps every 3 days) partial
                                                                                                                                                                                        water changes on your old tank until all fish are transferred. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                                                        <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I'm moving into the 75 gal. Anything I should take special care with?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Timing? Filtration (only 1 filter so what do I do?)
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Can I do this all in one day or does this have to be a "process?"
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Hoping for the 1 day. =) After all, I did move them all here in 1 day
                                                                                                                                                                                        > in somewhat miserable conditions.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Leslie
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11465 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Rob [AquaticLife] Movin' on up...
                                                                                                                                                                                        Leslie, If the nitrogen cycle has never been started in this tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                        even though its been running about two months, relatively little has
                                                                                                                                                                                        occurred up 'till now in establishing these bacteria colonies,
                                                                                                                                                                                        especially if no source of ammonia has yet to be introduced (in the
                                                                                                                                                                                        form of fish waste, food or even a small amount of pure ammonia). This
                                                                                                                                                                                        is why a good amount of old gravel and water from the old tank will
                                                                                                                                                                                        help. When moving the filter to the 75, use an airstone in the old
                                                                                                                                                                                        tank until all the fish are removed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                                                        <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > The tank isn't over a year old. It's only been running about 2
                                                                                                                                                                                        months.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > That's why I'm wondering about moving them all at once. =)
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11466 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Rob [AquaticLife] Movin' on up...
                                                                                                                                                                                        Advice I will use. Thank you.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Rob [AquaticLife] Movin' on up...

                                                                                                                                                                                        Leslie, If the nitrogen cycle has never been started in this tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                        even though its been running about two months, relatively little has
                                                                                                                                                                                        occurred up 'till now in establishing these bacteria colonies,
                                                                                                                                                                                        especially if no source of ammonia has yet to be introduced (in the
                                                                                                                                                                                        form of fish waste, food or even a small amount of pure ammonia). This
                                                                                                                                                                                        is why a good amount of old gravel and water from the old tank will
                                                                                                                                                                                        help. When moving the filter to the 75, use an airstone in the old
                                                                                                                                                                                        tank until all the fish are removed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                                                        <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > The tank isn't over a year old. It's only been running about 2
                                                                                                                                                                                        months.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > That's why I'm wondering about moving them all at once. =)
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11467 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                        Emily, You're the one who seems to think that your alkalinity is 0,
                                                                                                                                                                                        as per your previous post # 11042 (May 12, 12:05PM) Why would you
                                                                                                                                                                                        think your alkalinity is 0 if you're now saying that your water is
                                                                                                                                                                                        already hard? Or am I missing something? If your water is hard it
                                                                                                                                                                                        must have calcium or magnesium carbonates, -- alkalinity -- buffering
                                                                                                                                                                                        capacity. Therefore, the water should remain fairly stable with the
                                                                                                                                                                                        use of only sodium bicarbonate, as additional calcite (limestone)
                                                                                                                                                                                        should not be needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar <bababanana@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > The stupid piece of wood costed $30 >:(
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I''ll try the limestone. But my water is already hard, so why would
                                                                                                                                                                                        alkalinity be 0?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily, Rather than using sodium bicarbonate, first use calcium
                                                                                                                                                                                        > carbonate (limestone) to increase the buffering capacity of the
                                                                                                                                                                                        water,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > if you don't think the fish will mind hard water too much -- I
                                                                                                                                                                                        don't
                                                                                                                                                                                        > know what kinds of fish you have. Generally, most fish can take
                                                                                                                                                                                        > moderately hard water. With using baking soda first, the pH is
                                                                                                                                                                                        likely
                                                                                                                                                                                        > to bounce as there's no buffering capacity yet. I presume you want
                                                                                                                                                                                        to
                                                                                                                                                                                        > approach the parameters of your tap water to make water changing
                                                                                                                                                                                        less
                                                                                                                                                                                        > stressful. If the driftwood is small enough to fit in a large pot,
                                                                                                                                                                                        you
                                                                                                                                                                                        > might try boiling it, otherwise soak it for a week or so in a large
                                                                                                                                                                                        > bucket with added baking soda, then rinse well. Can't say how much
                                                                                                                                                                                        > your wood might lower the pH without knowing its size and whether
                                                                                                                                                                                        its
                                                                                                                                                                                        > African or Malasian driftwood. Its not bad in the sense that many
                                                                                                                                                                                        > people use it, but it does have the tendency to lower the pH. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        > \ --
                                                                                                                                                                                        > - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > I have a large piece of wood in my new tank. Is this bad and will
                                                                                                                                                                                        it
                                                                                                                                                                                        > lower the pH too much? I'm planning a trip to the aquarium store
                                                                                                                                                                                        later
                                                                                                                                                                                        > to get some limestone or coral to raise alkalinity. Maybe I'll just
                                                                                                                                                                                        add
                                                                                                                                                                                        > some baking soda to hold out until then. How much would I add to a
                                                                                                                                                                                        55
                                                                                                                                                                                        > gal with a pH of 6.4 and 0 alkalinity?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                        thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                        important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                        message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                        subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11468 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: North Jersey LFS
                                                                                                                                                                                        Donna, Actually, I don't have one favorite LFS, but find a number of
                                                                                                                                                                                        them quite good, depending upon where you are in North Jersey.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Kazimir's Pet Shop is good in Bergen County, Absolutely Fish, Animal
                                                                                                                                                                                        Action Pet Center and Rainbow Aquarium in Passaic County, Adam's Pet
                                                                                                                                                                                        Safari in Morris County, Shark Aquarium and Pet Shanty in Union
                                                                                                                                                                                        County, Exotic Aquatics in Essex County and Grass' Pet Menagerie in
                                                                                                                                                                                        Hudson County. There is an excellent aquarium group nearby -- North
                                                                                                                                                                                        Jersey Aquarium Society is one of the premier clubs in the United
                                                                                                                                                                                        States. They meet in the Meadowlands Environmental Center
                                                                                                                                                                                        (Lyndhurst, NJ) on the 3rd Thursday of every month. Directions and
                                                                                                                                                                                        other info can be found at the website -- << www.NJAS.net >>. Well
                                                                                                                                                                                        worth looking into. Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@o...>
                                                                                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Ray in North Jersey, I am in North Jersey as well. What is your
                                                                                                                                                                                        favorite
                                                                                                                                                                                        > LFS? Are there any interesting aquarium groups/clubs nearby?
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Donna in North Jersey
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > _____
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of sevenspringss@w...
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:12 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Elaine, Noticed your post and find it most interesting, with much
                                                                                                                                                                                        > informative data. However, is it possible that you may have
                                                                                                                                                                                        misunderstood
                                                                                                                                                                                        > this lecturer? pH testing alone, cannot properly monitor the
                                                                                                                                                                                        varying water
                                                                                                                                                                                        > parameters of all aquarium conditions. Perhaps you've seemingly
                                                                                                                                                                                        observed up
                                                                                                                                                                                        > 'till now that your water has allowed pH testing alone, with other
                                                                                                                                                                                        > parameters not getting out of hand between water changes. Truth is
                                                                                                                                                                                        that
                                                                                                                                                                                        > other parameters (ammonia, nitrite, etc. concentrations) can and do
                                                                                                                                                                                        vary
                                                                                                                                                                                        > independently from pH, depending on many facters, the least of
                                                                                                                                                                                        which is the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > basic make up of the water itself. So what you are saying cannot
                                                                                                                                                                                        be taken
                                                                                                                                                                                        > as a blanket statement. I'm glad its so far working for you, but
                                                                                                                                                                                        pH testing
                                                                                                                                                                                        > alone cannot be assumed okay by every one of
                                                                                                                                                                                        us. &n bsp;
                                                                                                                                                                                        > \
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I also have to take exception to your # 3 excerpt, although I'm not
                                                                                                                                                                                        exactly
                                                                                                                                                                                        > sure of what you mean by "most filters". However, it is one of
                                                                                                                                                                                        the main
                                                                                                                                                                                        > functions o f all filters to a greater or lesser extent (depending
                                                                                                                                                                                        upon type
                                                                                                                                                                                        > of filter) to help eliminate ammonia and nitrites by converting
                                                                                                                                                                                        these
                                                                                                                                                                                        > compounds into less harmful nitrates via the express use of aerobic
                                                                                                                                                                                        > nitrifiers, such as Nitrospira (for ammonia) and nitrobacters (for
                                                                                                                                                                                        nitrite).
                                                                                                                                                                                        > These bacteria thrive best in aerobic (exposed to oxygen)
                                                                                                                                                                                        conditions such as
                                                                                                                                                                                        > is found in filters, with increased oxygen flowing past them in the
                                                                                                                                                                                        water
                                                                                                                                                                                        > flow, and even more so in filters containing bio-wheels and bio-
                                                                                                                                                                                        balls, where
                                                                                                                                                                                        > a thin stream (or trickle) of oxygen enriched water is constantly
                                                                                                                                                                                        flowing
                                                                                                                                                                                        > past.
                                                                                                                                                                                        \ &
                                                                                                                                                                                        > nbsp;
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Ray (in North Jersey)
                                                                                                                                                                                        > 2 150's
                                                                                                                                                                                        > 2 125's ;
                                                                                                                                                                                        > 4 100's
                                                                                                                                                                                        > 18 50's
                                                                                                                                                                                        > 12 40's Various Central, South American and African
                                                                                                                                                                                        Cichlids,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Tetras, &nb sp;
                                                                                                                                                                                        > 6 26's Barbs, Livebearers, Killifish, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > ; 12 20's
                                                                                                                                                                                        > 24 15's &nbs p;
                                                                                                                                                                                        > 20 10's
                                                                                                                                                                                        > ;
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11469 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/12/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                        that's what my test strip said :\
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                        Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        Emily, You're the one who seems to think that your alkalinity is 0,
                                                                                                                                                                                        as per your previous post # 11042 (May 12, 12:05PM) Why would you
                                                                                                                                                                                        think your alkalinity is 0 if you're now saying that your water is
                                                                                                                                                                                        already hard? Or am I missing something? If your water is hard it
                                                                                                                                                                                        must have calcium or magnesium carbonates, -- alkalinity -- buffering
                                                                                                                                                                                        capacity. Therefore, the water should remain fairly stable with the
                                                                                                                                                                                        use of only sodium bicarbonate, as additional calcite (limestone)
                                                                                                                                                                                        should not be needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > The stupid piece of wood costed $30 >:(
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I''ll try the limestone. But my water is already hard, so why would
                                                                                                                                                                                        alkalinity be 0?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily, Rather than using sodium bicarbonate, first use calcium
                                                                                                                                                                                        > carbonate (limestone) to increase the buffering capacity of the
                                                                                                                                                                                        water,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > if you don't think the fish will mind hard water too much -- I
                                                                                                                                                                                        don't
                                                                                                                                                                                        > know what kinds of fish you have. Generally, most fish can take
                                                                                                                                                                                        > moderately hard water. With using baking soda first, the pH is
                                                                                                                                                                                        likely
                                                                                                                                                                                        > to bounce as there's no buffering capacity yet. I presume you want
                                                                                                                                                                                        to
                                                                                                                                                                                        > approach the parameters of your tap water to make water changing
                                                                                                                                                                                        less
                                                                                                                                                                                        > stressful. If the driftwood is small enough to fit in a large pot,
                                                                                                                                                                                        you
                                                                                                                                                                                        > might try boiling it, otherwise soak it for a week or so in a large
                                                                                                                                                                                        > bucket with added baking soda, then rinse well. Can't say how much
                                                                                                                                                                                        > your wood might lower the pH without knowing its size and whether
                                                                                                                                                                                        its
                                                                                                                                                                                        > African or Malasian driftwood. Its not bad in the sense that many
                                                                                                                                                                                        > people use it, but it does have the tendency to lower the pH. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        > \ --
                                                                                                                                                                                        > - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > I have a large piece of wood in my new tank. Is this bad and will
                                                                                                                                                                                        it
                                                                                                                                                                                        > lower the pH too much? I'm planning a trip to the aquarium store
                                                                                                                                                                                        later
                                                                                                                                                                                        > to get some limestone or coral to raise alkalinity. Maybe I'll just
                                                                                                                                                                                        add
                                                                                                                                                                                        > some baking soda to hold out until then. How much would I add to a
                                                                                                                                                                                        55
                                                                                                                                                                                        > gal with a pH of 6.4 and 0 alkalinity?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                        thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        > .
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                                                                                                                                                                                        important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11470 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: FW: Power Head for UGF
                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm going to the LFS this morning.  Could someone give me some advice, please?
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks so much!
                                                                                                                                                                                        Angela
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        -------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                        From: angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Power Head for UGF
                                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 23:26:00 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                        I have a 29 gallon set up I bought second hand with a Magnum HOT canister filter and a UGF using two airlines from an air pump.  Should I have two power heads (one on each tube from the UGF)?  Are power heads the same, or is there a big difference among manufacturers?  What should I look for?
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks for the advice,
                                                                                                                                                                                        Angela
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                        using an air pump to run a ugf will not create enough
                                                                                                                                                                                        suction to go through deep beds of gravel.  use a
                                                                                                                                                                                        power head water pump on top of the uplift tube
                                                                                                                                                                                        instead of the air pump.  they draw 160-250 gph
                                                                                                                                                                                        instead of the minimal draw by the air returning up
                                                                                                                                                                                        the tube.
                                                                                                                                                                                        --- Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > what do you mean by this?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > just remember to use power heads with deep beds, air
                                                                                                                                                                                        > pumps will not form a strong enough suction for the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > ugf to work. that would be a situation where
                                                                                                                                                                                        > problems
                                                                                                                                                                                        > occur with toxic gases
                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- Steve Szabo wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Emily,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > A deeper bed will give you more biological
                                                                                                                                                                                        > activity.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > I've seen as much as 5"
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > of gravel in a tank with a UGF, though I've never
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > gone that deep myself.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Gold fish are "dirty" fish in that they excrete a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > lot of ammonia. The more
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > gravel bed you have, the more bacteria can
                                                                                                                                                                                        > colonize
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > it and take care of the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > load from the goldfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 12:19 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help with
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > nitrite cycling in a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > I did add some gravel already, but I think I could
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > bring in some more. Is a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > few inches of gravel too much for a UGF?? I wanted
                                                                                                                                                                                        > a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > deeper substrate in the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > new planted tank because the goldfish like to dig
                                                                                                                                                                                        > up
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Trevor wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Why should it matter whether she's using a UGF in
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > both tanks? The
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > gravel from the established tank should have
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > bacteria in it no
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > what kind of filter she's using (or even if she
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > weren't using a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > filter).
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo"
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > If you are using the same
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > type of filtration in your other tank--the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > UGF--you can take some
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > of the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > substrate from that tank and place it in the new
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > tank to add to
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > your
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > bacterial colonies.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Mail
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11471 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                        Emily, Since your test strip measured 0, I have to assume that these
                                                                                                                                                                                        strips are for measuring alkalinity -- CACO3 (correct me if I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                        wrong), and are not measuring pH, since you can't get a 0 reading
                                                                                                                                                                                        with a pH test but instead get a reading (based on comparative color
                                                                                                                                                                                        chart of from yellow - 6.0, to dark blue - 7.8). Alkalinity test
                                                                                                                                                                                        strips do not measure Total Alkalinity (as including magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                        carbonate) in the test, but only calcium carbonate. If you ARE SURE
                                                                                                                                                                                        you have hard water you can get a 0 reading for Alkalinity with the
                                                                                                                                                                                        test strips -- in this case, for calcium carbonates, and still have
                                                                                                                                                                                        magnesium carbonates which makes water hard. I also have to assume
                                                                                                                                                                                        you've taken a hardness test, and again correct me if I'm wrong. If
                                                                                                                                                                                        in fact your water is hard, as you say, its no doubt due to magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                        carbonates, in which case you have your buffering capacity and DO NOT
                                                                                                                                                                                        need to add limestone. Your water should remain fairly stable, with
                                                                                                                                                                                        the addition of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) as needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar <bababanana@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > that's what my test strip said :\
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily, You're the one who seems to think that your alkalinity is 0,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > as per your previous post # 11042 (May 12, 12:05PM) Why would you
                                                                                                                                                                                        > think your alkalinity is 0 if you're now saying that your water is
                                                                                                                                                                                        > already hard? Or am I missing something? If your water is hard it
                                                                                                                                                                                        > must have calcium or magnesium carbonates, -- alkalinity --
                                                                                                                                                                                        buffering
                                                                                                                                                                                        > capacity. Therefore, the water should remain fairly stable with the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > use of only sodium bicarbonate, as additional calcite (limestone)
                                                                                                                                                                                        > should not be needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        > \
                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > The stupid piece of wood costed $30 >:(
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > I''ll try the limestone. But my water is already hard, so why
                                                                                                                                                                                        would
                                                                                                                                                                                        > alkalinity be 0?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Emily, Rather than using sodium bicarbonate, first use calcium
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > carbonate (limestone) to increase the buffering capacity of the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > water,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > if you don't think the fish will mind hard water too much -- I
                                                                                                                                                                                        > don't
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > know what kinds of fish you have. Generally, most fish can take
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > moderately hard water. With using baking soda first, the pH is
                                                                                                                                                                                        > likely
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > to bounce as there's no buffering capacity yet. I presume you
                                                                                                                                                                                        want
                                                                                                                                                                                        > to
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > approach the parameters of your tap water to make water changing
                                                                                                                                                                                        > less
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > stressful. If the driftwood is small enough to fit in a large
                                                                                                                                                                                        pot,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > you
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > might try boiling it, otherwise soak it for a week or so in a
                                                                                                                                                                                        large
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > bucket with added baking soda, then rinse well. Can't say how
                                                                                                                                                                                        much
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > your wood might lower the pH without knowing its size and whether
                                                                                                                                                                                        > its
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > African or Malasian driftwood. Its not bad in the sense that many
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > people use it, but it does have the tendency to lower the pH. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > \ --
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > I have a large piece of wood in my new tank. Is this bad and
                                                                                                                                                                                        will
                                                                                                                                                                                        > it
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > lower the pH too much? I'm planning a trip to the aquarium store
                                                                                                                                                                                        > later
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > to get some limestone or coral to raise alkalinity. Maybe I'll
                                                                                                                                                                                        just
                                                                                                                                                                                        > add
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > some baking soda to hold out until then. How much would I add to
                                                                                                                                                                                        a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > 55
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > gal with a pH of 6.4 and 0 alkalinity?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                        > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                        > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                        > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                        thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        > .
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                                                                                                                                                                                        important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                        message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                        subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11472 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                        I got a 5 in one test strip that measures pH, alkalinity, hardness, nitrite and nitrate. Hardness was around 120ppm. Anyway, well it was a little harder than the middle reading. the pH pad and alkalinity were both at the lowest possible value on the strip. I did end up adding some crushed shells and coral so we'll see what happens.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                        Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        Emily, Since your test strip measured 0, I have to assume that these
                                                                                                                                                                                        strips are for measuring alkalinity -- CACO3 (correct me if I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                        wrong), and are not measuring pH, since you can't get a 0 reading
                                                                                                                                                                                        with a pH test but instead get a reading (based on comparative color
                                                                                                                                                                                        chart of from yellow - 6.0, to dark blue - 7.8). Alkalinity test
                                                                                                                                                                                        strips do not measure Total Alkalinity (as including magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                        carbonate) in the test, but only calcium carbonate. If you ARE SURE
                                                                                                                                                                                        you have hard water you can get a 0 reading for Alkalinity with the
                                                                                                                                                                                        test strips -- in this case, for calcium carbonates, and still have
                                                                                                                                                                                        magnesium carbonates which makes water hard. I also have to assume
                                                                                                                                                                                        you've taken a hardness test, and again correct me if I'm wrong. If
                                                                                                                                                                                        in fact your water is hard, as you say, its no doubt due to magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                        carbonates, in which case you have your buffering capacity and DO NOT
                                                                                                                                                                                        need to add limestone. Your water should remain fairly stable, with
                                                                                                                                                                                        the addition of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) as needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > that's what my test strip said :\
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily, You're the one who seems to think that your alkalinity is 0,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > as per your previous post # 11042 (May 12, 12:05PM) Why would you
                                                                                                                                                                                        > think your alkalinity is 0 if you're now saying that your water is
                                                                                                                                                                                        > already hard? Or am I missing something? If your water is hard it
                                                                                                                                                                                        > must have calcium or magnesium carbonates, -- alkalinity --
                                                                                                                                                                                        buffering
                                                                                                                                                                                        > capacity. Therefore, the water should remain fairly stable with the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > use of only sodium bicarbonate, as additional calcite (limestone)
                                                                                                                                                                                        > should not be needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        > \
                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > The stupid piece of wood costed $30 >:(
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > I''ll try the limestone. But my water is already hard, so why
                                                                                                                                                                                        would
                                                                                                                                                                                        > alkalinity be 0?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Emily, Rather than using sodium bicarbonate, first use calcium
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > carbonate (limestone) to increase the buffering capacity of the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > water,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > if you don't think the fish will mind hard water too much -- I
                                                                                                                                                                                        > don't
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > know what kinds of fish you have. Generally, most fish can take
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > moderately hard water. With using baking soda first, the pH is
                                                                                                                                                                                        > likely
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > to bounce as there's no buffering capacity yet. I presume you
                                                                                                                                                                                        want
                                                                                                                                                                                        > to
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > approach the parameters of your tap water to make water changing
                                                                                                                                                                                        > less
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > stressful. If the driftwood is small enough to fit in a large
                                                                                                                                                                                        pot,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > you
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > might try boiling it, otherwise soak it for a week or so in a
                                                                                                                                                                                        large
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > bucket with added baking soda, then rinse well. Can't say how
                                                                                                                                                                                        much
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > your wood might lower the pH without knowing its size and whether
                                                                                                                                                                                        > its
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > African or Malasian driftwood. Its not bad in the sense that many
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > people use it, but it does have the tendency to lower the pH. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > \ --
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > I have a large piece of wood in my new tank. Is this bad and
                                                                                                                                                                                        will
                                                                                                                                                                                        > it
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > lower the pH too much? I'm planning a trip to the aquarium store
                                                                                                                                                                                        > later
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > to get some limestone or coral to raise alkalinity. Maybe I'll
                                                                                                                                                                                        just
                                                                                                                                                                                        > add
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > some baking soda to hold out until then. How much would I add to
                                                                                                                                                                                        a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > 55
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > gal with a pH of 6.4 and 0 alkalinity?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                        > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                        > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                        > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                        thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                        important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                        message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                        subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links




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                                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11473 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC - More fish
                                                                                                                                                                                        I use both eudora and outlook 2003




                                                                                                                                                                                        At 09:39 AM 5/12/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        >What email program are you using?
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >--
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Alan
                                                                                                                                                                                        >--
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Chandler, Arizona Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                                                                                        >http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        >-----
                                                                                                                                                                                        >*** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >*** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and
                                                                                                                                                                                        >AntiqueRoses
                                                                                                                                                                                        >*** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening list called "OutGardening".
                                                                                                                                                                                        >*** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your address.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >*** Check them out at:
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/listinfo/
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >***** All generalizations are false, including this one.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                        >From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Behalf Of r_ohle@...
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:31 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                        >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OFF TOPIC - More fish
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >I can't figure out how folks embed a photo to an email.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Can you tell me?
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        >red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >At 11:48 AM 5/9/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >I think I have room for a few more don't you.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >DSC00392
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks .
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks .
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                        >the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                        >subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                        >in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        >.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                        >the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                        >subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                        >in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11474 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                        Your hardness no doubt is due to magnesium carbonates; the crushed
                                                                                                                                                                                        shells and coral will help buffer the water by increasing the
                                                                                                                                                                                        alkalinity, but in itself won't raise the pH very much. You'll
                                                                                                                                                                                        probably need to add some baking soda. For your pH to be at its
                                                                                                                                                                                        lowest test reading (whatever that is) is very unusual, unless you've
                                                                                                                                                                                        already added the driftwood. Generally, tap water is hardly ever
                                                                                                                                                                                        distributed to the consumer by a water company, in an acid pH range.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Would like to make one recommendation, and that is to consider
                                                                                                                                                                                        getting liquid test kits, singularly or as one master kit, as these
                                                                                                                                                                                        kits are much more accurate and reliable (many strip kits have an
                                                                                                                                                                                        expiration date). Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar <bababanana@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I got a 5 in one test strip that measures pH, alkalinity, hardness,
                                                                                                                                                                                        nitrite and nitrate. Hardness was around 120ppm. Anyway, well it was
                                                                                                                                                                                        a little harder than the middle reading. the pH pad and alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                        were both at the lowest possible value on the strip. I did end up
                                                                                                                                                                                        adding some crushed shells and coral so we'll see what happens.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily, Since your test strip measured 0, I have to assume that
                                                                                                                                                                                        these
                                                                                                                                                                                        > strips are for measuring alkalinity -- CACO3 (correct me if I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                        > wrong), and are not measuring pH, since you can't get a 0 reading
                                                                                                                                                                                        > with a pH test but instead get a reading (based on comparative
                                                                                                                                                                                        color
                                                                                                                                                                                        > chart of from yellow - 6.0, to dark blue - 7.8). Alkalinity test
                                                                                                                                                                                        > strips do not measure Total Alkalinity (as including magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                        > carbonate) in the test, but only calcium carbonate. If you ARE SURE
                                                                                                                                                                                        > you have hard water you can get a 0 reading for Alkalinity with the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > test strips -- in this case, for calcium carbonates, and still have
                                                                                                                                                                                        > magnesium carbonates which makes water hard. I also have to assume
                                                                                                                                                                                        > you've taken a hardness test, and again correct me if I'm wrong. If
                                                                                                                                                                                        > in fact your water is hard, as you say, its no doubt due to
                                                                                                                                                                                        magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                        > carbonates, in which case you have your buffering capacity and DO
                                                                                                                                                                                        NOT
                                                                                                                                                                                        > need to add limestone. Your water should remain fairly stable, with
                                                                                                                                                                                        > the addition of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) as needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        > \
                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > that's what my test strip said :\
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Emily, You're the one who seems to think that your alkalinity is
                                                                                                                                                                                        0,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > as per your previous post # 11042 (May 12, 12:05PM) Why would you
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > think your alkalinity is 0 if you're now saying that your water
                                                                                                                                                                                        is
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > already hard? Or am I missing something? If your water is hard it
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > must have calcium or magnesium carbonates, -- alkalinity --
                                                                                                                                                                                        > buffering
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > capacity. Therefore, the water should remain fairly stable with
                                                                                                                                                                                        the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > use of only sodium bicarbonate, as additional calcite (limestone)
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > should not be needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > The stupid piece of wood costed $30 >:(
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > I''ll try the limestone. But my water is already hard, so why
                                                                                                                                                                                        > would
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > alkalinity be 0?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Emily, Rather than using sodium bicarbonate, first use calcium
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > carbonate (limestone) to increase the buffering capacity of the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > water,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > if you don't think the fish will mind hard water too much -- I
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > don't
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > know what kinds of fish you have. Generally, most fish can take
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > moderately hard water. With using baking soda first, the pH is
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > likely
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > to bounce as there's no buffering capacity yet. I presume you
                                                                                                                                                                                        > want
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > approach the parameters of your tap water to make water
                                                                                                                                                                                        changing
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > less
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > stressful. If the driftwood is small enough to fit in a large
                                                                                                                                                                                        > pot,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > might try boiling it, otherwise soak it for a week or so in a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > large
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > bucket with added baking soda, then rinse well. Can't say how
                                                                                                                                                                                        > much
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > your wood might lower the pH without knowing its size and
                                                                                                                                                                                        whether
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > its
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > African or Malasian driftwood. Its not bad in the sense that
                                                                                                                                                                                        many
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > people use it, but it does have the tendency to lower the pH.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > \ --
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > I have a large piece of wood in my new tank. Is this bad and
                                                                                                                                                                                        > will
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > it
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > lower the pH too much? I'm planning a trip to the aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                        store
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > later
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > to get some limestone or coral to raise alkalinity. Maybe I'll
                                                                                                                                                                                        > just
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > add
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > some baking soda to hold out until then. How much would I add
                                                                                                                                                                                        to
                                                                                                                                                                                        > a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > 55
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > gal with a pH of 6.4 and 0 alkalinity?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                        matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                        > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                        > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                        > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                        thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                        important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                        message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                        subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11475 From: Zelhart Alan-rpcs30 Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC - More fish
                                                                                                                                                                                        Message

                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm not familiar with eudora, but if you are using outlook, and you want to import an image you do this:

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. Click on new or reply to start your message.
                                                                                                                                                                                        2. On the menu at the top, click on "Insert"
                                                                                                                                                                                        3. Then Select Picture
                                                                                                                                                                                        4. It will open a window so you can locate the picture you want to insert.  So in effect you browse to the picture.

                                                                                                                                                                                        5. Once you have found the path and clicked on the picture, click OK.

                                                                                                                                                                                        The picture is now inserted into your email.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Note: You must format your document in HTML to succeed in doing this.  If you are in Text mode, you the "Picture" menu selection will be grayed out.

                                                                                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                                                                                        Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                                                                                        Alan
                                                                                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                                                                                        Chandler, Arizona        Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- 
                                                                                                                                                                                        *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com. 
                                                                                                                                                                                        *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
                                                                                                                                                                                        *** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening list called "OutGardening".
                                                                                                                                                                                        *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your address. 
                                                                                                                                                                                        *** Check them out at:
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        *****  Computers run on faith, not electrons.
                                                                                                                                                                                         



                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r_ohle@...
                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 10:23 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OFF TOPIC - More fish


                                                                                                                                                                                        I use both eudora and outlook 2003




                                                                                                                                                                                        At 09:39 AM 5/12/2005, you wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        >What email program are you
                                                                                                                                                                                        using?
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >--
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Chat with you
                                                                                                                                                                                        later,
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Alan
                                                                                                                                                                                        >--
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Chandler,
                                                                                                                                                                                        Arizona        Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        href="http://www.GardenersCorner.com">http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        >-----
                                                                                                                                                                                        >***
                                                                                                                                                                                        Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >***
                                                                                                                                                                                        The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and
                                                                                                                                                                                        >AntiqueRoses
                                                                                                                                                                                        >*** For the GLBT Community we have a new
                                                                                                                                                                                        gardening list called "OutGardening".
                                                                                                                                                                                        >*** Email addresses are concealed,
                                                                                                                                                                                        so no spammers can find your address.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >*** Check them out
                                                                                                                                                                                        at:
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        href="http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/listinfo/">http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/listinfo/
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >*****
                                                                                                                                                                                        All generalizations are false, including this one.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                        >From:
                                                                                                                                                                                        AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                        >On
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Behalf
                                                                                                                                                                                        Of r_ohle@...
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:31 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                        >To:
                                                                                                                                                                                        AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OFF TOPIC - More
                                                                                                                                                                                        fish
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >I can't figure out how folks embed a photo to an
                                                                                                                                                                                        email.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Can you tell
                                                                                                                                                                                        me?
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        >red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >At
                                                                                                                                                                                        11:48 AM 5/9/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >I think I have room for a
                                                                                                                                                                                        few more don't you.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >DSC00392
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs
                                                                                                                                                                                        may
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >prevent sending or receiving certain types of file
                                                                                                                                                                                        attachments. 
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >Check your e-mail security settings to determine
                                                                                                                                                                                        how attachments are
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >handled.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                        thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >. Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is
                                                                                                                                                                                        not
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >important to the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                                                                                                                        original
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject
                                                                                                                                                                                        (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your
                                                                                                                                                                                        help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Please delete this line and
                                                                                                                                                                                        everything below it when replying, thanks .
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Please, when you reply to a
                                                                                                                                                                                        post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                        >the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                                                                                        the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                        >subject line -> i.e. "new
                                                                                                                                                                                        subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                        >in Advance for
                                                                                                                                                                                        your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Yahoo! Groups
                                                                                                                                                                                        Links
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Please
                                                                                                                                                                                        delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks .
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Please,
                                                                                                                                                                                        when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                        >the
                                                                                                                                                                                        reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                        >subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)"
                                                                                                                                                                                        <-,  we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                        >in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                        matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Yahoo! Groups
                                                                                                                                                                                        Links
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >



                                                                                                                                                                                        ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
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                                                                                                                                                                                        --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

                                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks . Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links

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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11476 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC - More fish
                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks Alan



                                                                                                                                                                                        At 11:30 AM 5/13/2005, you wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm not familiar with eudora, but if you are using outlook, and you want to import an image you do this:

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. Click on new or reply to start your message.
                                                                                                                                                                                        2. On the menu at the top, click on "Insert"
                                                                                                                                                                                        3. Then Select Picture
                                                                                                                                                                                        4. It will open a window so you can locate the picture you want to insert.  So in effect you browse to the picture.

                                                                                                                                                                                        5. Once you have found the path and clicked on the picture, click OK.

                                                                                                                                                                                        The picture is now inserted into your email.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Note: You must format your document in HTML to succeed in doing this.  If you are in Text mode, you the "Picture" menu selection will be grayed out.
                                                                                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                                                                                        Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                                                                                        Alan
                                                                                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                                                                                        Chandler, Arizona        Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- 
                                                                                                                                                                                        *** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com. 
                                                                                                                                                                                        *** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and AntiqueRoses
                                                                                                                                                                                        *** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening list called "OutGardening".
                                                                                                                                                                                        *** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your address. 
                                                                                                                                                                                        *** Check them out at:
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/listinfo/
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        *****  Computers run on faith, not electrons.
                                                                                                                                                                                         



                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r_ohle@...
                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 10:23 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OFF TOPIC - More fish


                                                                                                                                                                                        I use both eudora and outlook 2003




                                                                                                                                                                                        At 09:39 AM 5/12/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        >What email program are you using?
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >--
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Chat with you later,
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Alan
                                                                                                                                                                                        >--
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Chandler, Arizona        Sunset Zone: 13
                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.GardenersCorner.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        >-----
                                                                                                                                                                                        >*** Five new gardening mail list now available on GardenersCorner.com.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >*** The lists are Gardeners', RoseGardeners', ArizonaGardeners', and
                                                                                                                                                                                        >AntiqueRoses
                                                                                                                                                                                        >*** For the GLBT Community we have a new gardening list called "OutGardening".
                                                                                                                                                                                        >*** Email addresses are concealed, so no spammers can find your address.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >*** Check them out at:
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://gardenerscorner.com/mailman/listinfo/
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >***** All generalizations are false, including this one.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                        >From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                        >On
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Behalf Of r_ohle@...
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:31 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                        >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OFF TOPIC - More fish
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >I can't figure out how folks embed a photo to an email.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Can you tell me?
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        >red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >At 11:48 AM 5/9/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >I think I have room for a few more don't you.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >DSC00392
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >handled.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >. Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks .
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                        >the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                        >subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                        >in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks .
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                        >the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                        >subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                        >in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >



                                                                                                                                                                                        ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
                                                                                                                                                                                        What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TzSHvD/SOnJAA/79vVAA/ANOolB/TM
                                                                                                                                                                                        --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

                                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks . Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                                                                                                                                                        <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/

                                                                                                                                                                                        <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                                            AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                                                                                                                                                                        <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                                                                                                                                                                            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11477 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                        I have a liquid test kit that is past date by a couple months. It was giving me weird ammonia readings, but I could try it. Should I actually take out the wood? I like how it looks in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                        Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        Your hardness no doubt is due to magnesium carbonates; the crushed
                                                                                                                                                                                        shells and coral will help buffer the water by increasing the
                                                                                                                                                                                        alkalinity, but in itself won't raise the pH very much. You'll
                                                                                                                                                                                        probably need to add some baking soda. For your pH to be at its
                                                                                                                                                                                        lowest test reading (whatever that is) is very unusual, unless you've
                                                                                                                                                                                        already added the driftwood. Generally, tap water is hardly ever
                                                                                                                                                                                        distributed to the consumer by a water company, in an acid pH range.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Would like to make one recommendation, and that is to consider
                                                                                                                                                                                        getting liquid test kits, singularly or as one master kit, as these
                                                                                                                                                                                        kits are much more accurate and reliable (many strip kits have an
                                                                                                                                                                                        expiration date). Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I got a 5 in one test strip that measures pH, alkalinity, hardness,
                                                                                                                                                                                        nitrite and nitrate. Hardness was around 120ppm. Anyway, well it was
                                                                                                                                                                                        a little harder than the middle reading. the pH pad and alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                        were both at the lowest possible value on the strip. I did end up
                                                                                                                                                                                        adding some crushed shells and coral so we'll see what happens.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Emily, Since your test strip measured 0, I have to assume that
                                                                                                                                                                                        these
                                                                                                                                                                                        > strips are for measuring alkalinity -- CACO3 (correct me if I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                        > wrong), and are not measuring pH, since you can't get a 0 reading
                                                                                                                                                                                        > with a pH test but instead get a reading (based on comparative
                                                                                                                                                                                        color
                                                                                                                                                                                        > chart of from yellow - 6.0, to dark blue - 7.8). Alkalinity test
                                                                                                                                                                                        > strips do not measure Total Alkalinity (as including magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                        > carbonate) in the test, but only calcium carbonate. If you ARE SURE
                                                                                                                                                                                        > you have hard water you can get a 0 reading for Alkalinity with the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > test strips -- in this case, for calcium carbonates, and still have
                                                                                                                                                                                        > magnesium carbonates which makes water hard. I also have to assume
                                                                                                                                                                                        > you've taken a hardness test, and again correct me if I'm wrong. If
                                                                                                                                                                                        > in fact your water is hard, as you say, its no doubt due to
                                                                                                                                                                                        magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                        > carbonates, in which case you have your buffering capacity and DO
                                                                                                                                                                                        NOT
                                                                                                                                                                                        > need to add limestone. Your water should remain fairly stable, with
                                                                                                                                                                                        > the addition of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) as needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        > \
                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > that's what my test strip said :\
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Emily, You're the one who seems to think that your alkalinity is
                                                                                                                                                                                        0,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > as per your previous post # 11042 (May 12, 12:05PM) Why would you
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > think your alkalinity is 0 if you're now saying that your water
                                                                                                                                                                                        is
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > already hard? Or am I missing something? If your water is hard it
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > must have calcium or magnesium carbonates, -- alkalinity --
                                                                                                                                                                                        > buffering
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > capacity. Therefore, the water should remain fairly stable with
                                                                                                                                                                                        the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > use of only sodium bicarbonate, as additional calcite (limestone)
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > should not be needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > The stupid piece of wood costed $30 >:(
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > I''ll try the limestone. But my water is already hard, so why
                                                                                                                                                                                        > would
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > alkalinity be 0?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Emily, Rather than using sodium bicarbonate, first use calcium
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > carbonate (limestone) to increase the buffering capacity of the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > water,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > if you don't think the fish will mind hard water too much -- I
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > don't
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > know what kinds of fish you have. Generally, most fish can take
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > moderately hard water. With using baking soda first, the pH is
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > likely
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > to bounce as there's no buffering capacity yet. I presume you
                                                                                                                                                                                        > want
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > approach the parameters of your tap water to make water
                                                                                                                                                                                        changing
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > less
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > stressful. If the driftwood is small enough to fit in a large
                                                                                                                                                                                        > pot,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > might try boiling it, otherwise soak it for a week or so in a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > large
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > bucket with added baking soda, then rinse well. Can't say how
                                                                                                                                                                                        > much
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > your wood might lower the pH without knowing its size and
                                                                                                                                                                                        whether
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > its
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > African or Malasian driftwood. Its not bad in the sense that
                                                                                                                                                                                        many
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > people use it, but it does have the tendency to lower the pH.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > \ --
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > I have a large piece of wood in my new tank. Is this bad and
                                                                                                                                                                                        > will
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > it
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > lower the pH too much? I'm planning a trip to the aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                        store
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > later
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > to get some limestone or coral to raise alkalinity. Maybe I'll
                                                                                                                                                                                        > just
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > add
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > some baking soda to hold out until then. How much would I add
                                                                                                                                                                                        to
                                                                                                                                                                                        > a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > 55
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > gal with a pH of 6.4 and 0 alkalinity?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > emily
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                        matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                        > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11478 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Have LR and Protein Skimmer for Sale
                                                                                                                                                                                        OK guys I am just asking for offers on them now. Will sell seperate.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Make me an offer.
                                                                                                                                                                                        The rock can ship flat rate for $8 in the US and the skimmer will
                                                                                                                                                                                        depend on your zipcode.


                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Zac Lohrenz" <zacdl@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > It is still availible.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Zac Lohrenz" <zacdl@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > I have about 10 pounds of LR and a Berlin Airlift 90 (1 month old
                                                                                                                                                                                        > skimmer)
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > I am asking (depending on zip code) $50 shipped for both.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Plz let me know.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11479 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
                                                                                                                                                                                        makes sense to me!

                                                                                                                                                                                        --- "Patrick, AAFG" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        > It is important to consider where bettas come from. All the real
                                                                                                                                                                                        > pictures of betta hunters and the old aquaculture book I read talk about
                                                                                                                                                                                        > large, slightly flowing bodies of water. These are swamps, drainage ditches
                                                                                                                                                                                        > that are wet all year, and rice fields that are drained back into those
                                                                                                                                                                                        > ditches and swamps. They probably do end up in some small puddles every now
                                                                                                                                                                                        > and then, but that is probably when the rice fields are drained and some get
                                                                                                                                                                                        > left behind. Those are then picked up and taken to town for fighting or
                                                                                                                                                                                        > selling. My opinion is that they come from water with a flow similar to the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > bottom area of a tank with a good filter on it. Mine have always liked
                                                                                                                                                                                        > swimming in the flow and sleep under the plants or behind the overflow.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.


                                                                                                                                                                                        I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11480 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New Aquarium type person
                                                                                                                                                                                        i would think we need a little more info from the original poster of this thread to even begin to
                                                                                                                                                                                        determine what might have caused the betta's death.

                                                                                                                                                                                        --- Nan <ntalb00@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        > Ok, I won't argue the point, but I would like to know your theory on why the betta died then?
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > bettas have no problems with flow....all that i have
                                                                                                                                                                                        > seen love swimming in tanks with a normal flow of
                                                                                                                                                                                        > water. when left in bowls or ythe lie, they are
                                                                                                                                                                                        > generally pretty lazy. just because they can handle
                                                                                                                                                                                        > it does not mean they like it. it is true taht they
                                                                                                                                                                                        > do not njoy flow when sleeping, and will often sleep
                                                                                                                                                                                        > behind teh circulation pump, in my experience they do
                                                                                                                                                                                        > just as well in either situation, but seem to be
                                                                                                                                                                                        > "happier" in an actual tank
                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- Nan <ntalb00@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Bettas like still water, however, a filtration
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > system with a gentle flow is ok. If you add to much
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > turbulance it could be the problem. They just plain
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > don't like it, I have found from experience and
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > talking to others that have made that mistake.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Since he was already probably stressed from being in
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > the small container, then moving around in the ride
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > home, and then being transferred to a new aquarium,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > that could have been your problem. But since I
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > wasn't there, I can't say for sure.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Nan
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Trevor <trevor@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > The betta is actually considered a pretty hardy fish
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > (which is why it
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > survives as long as it does in the conditions most
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > people keep it in).
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Perhaps you should try to figure out what went wrong
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > before possibly
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > repeating it again? How was the tank set up? How
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > long have you had it?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Are you sure the betta wasn't a victim of "new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > syndrome"?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard Jolitz
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > <emicarn@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Greetings All.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > I am looking for some suggestions on good hardy
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > starter fish. I have 10 gallon tank setup and the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > single fish I put in it didn't do well [betta] and
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > has
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > since croaked.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Anyone have any suggestions for a good hardy
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > community
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > fish that is a good starter? I've considered
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > mollys
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > and/or tetras along with a betta for color.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Thanks for any help!
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Rich
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Discover Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!


                                                                                                                                                                                        I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11481 From: Heather Norton Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Hi Im a new member and have Angels/Heather Norton
                                                                                                                                                                                        My problem started the other day ,sometime Sunday three days after I
                                                                                                                                                                                        purched my Angels I was sad to see my vieltail was being beat on and
                                                                                                                                                                                        found out my widow tetras were in on it so took them out ,then late
                                                                                                                                                                                        yeasterday found my two marble half blacks were pairing of so felt they
                                                                                                                                                                                        were also in on it but why are they not bothering my common angel .?
                                                                                                                                                                                        They are all from the same tank the same age and size but in a 24 gal
                                                                                                                                                                                        tank that I am going to put them into a thirty gal in a bout two weeks
                                                                                                                                                                                        so if their pairing of should I remove the common angel who seems to be
                                                                                                                                                                                        domanent and they get along ,also I,ve been told not to feed them the
                                                                                                                                                                                        baby guppies and given so recapies but does this make them mean
                                                                                                                                                                                        .They have lots of plants but how long will if ever it get them to get
                                                                                                                                                                                        their lovely fins back ?
                                                                                                                                                                                        Heather Norton
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11482 From: hnorton1cogeco.ca Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Eric Couple of set-up questions /Heather Norton
                                                                                                                                                                                        Eric I just get of as much as I can with a razor blade also I use a bit of the spray you use for frying and then take a paper towel and some vinegar and wipe it several times with it then take some salt on a cloth and clean the whole tank for any other residue left on the glass and then just plain water wipe down to finish it of .I have been doing this for over twelve years and have had no problems though Im sure others have  different ideas .I also use scotch tape for the background
                                                                                                                                                                                        Heather Norton
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        From Eric
                                                                                                                                                                                        1. on the inside of my new tanks there's some adhesive left over from a label. I certainly don't want to use any soap on it. I plan on using isopropyl alcohol on that area and other areas of the inside. Are there any issues this doing this? I plan on wiping down the inside with dry paper towels.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        2. how the devil does one attach the background 'paper' to the tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11483 From: Linda Amundsen Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: pea gravel
                                                                                                                                                                                        I am new to the group. I have been away from the aquarium hobby for
                                                                                                                                                                                        several years now. We close on our new, larger house at the end of May
                                                                                                                                                                                        and my husband said that I could get another aquarium. My last tank
                                                                                                                                                                                        was a 125 gallon.

                                                                                                                                                                                        I am looking at a 150 show tank. I am going to stock it with
                                                                                                                                                                                        angelfish, keyhole cichlids, gouramis, black phantom tetras, veil tail
                                                                                                                                                                                        zebra danios, corys and a couple of the smaller plecos and a few
                                                                                                                                                                                        oticinclis.

                                                                                                                                                                                        To save some money on the cost of the gravel, I was wondering if I
                                                                                                                                                                                        could use the pea gravel that they sell at Home Depot. It is a little
                                                                                                                                                                                        darker than I would like, but I figured I could use half of a lighter
                                                                                                                                                                                        color from an aquarium store.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                        River Falls, WI
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11484 From: Linda Amundsen Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: tank weight
                                                                                                                                                                                        It's the newby again. The tank that I am looking at buying is a 150
                                                                                                                                                                                        gallon show tank with the dimensions of 48"long x 24"deep x 30" high.
                                                                                                                                                                                        I am guessing that the tank itself weighs about 150 pounds. The water
                                                                                                                                                                                        is going to weigh in at @ 1260 pounds. The gravel approx 150 pounds
                                                                                                                                                                                        and the ornamental rocks will add an additional 25 pounds. I am not
                                                                                                                                                                                        sure on the weight of the stand, but I guess it will be about the same
                                                                                                                                                                                        as the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                        My question is this. Our new house is a split level. I would really
                                                                                                                                                                                        like the aquarium to be upstairs near the dining room and the living
                                                                                                                                                                                        room. I know that I must make sure the joists go perpendicular to the
                                                                                                                                                                                        length of the tank. with the downstairs being finished, how is one
                                                                                                                                                                                        suppose to find out? Is there any other way I can make sure that my
                                                                                                                                                                                        floor is strong enough for my tank? The house was built in 1987, so it
                                                                                                                                                                                        is 18 years old.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks again,

                                                                                                                                                                                        Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                        River Falls, WI
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11485 From: Andy Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Question about Ick
                                                                                                                                                                                        I guess this is an introduction as well as a question to all who read.
                                                                                                                                                                                        I am new to the hobby and have been reading all posts for close to a
                                                                                                                                                                                        month now. I have recently set up a 55 gal tank with cories, rams,
                                                                                                                                                                                        and some phantom tetras.

                                                                                                                                                                                        I recently purchased 8 cardinal tetras and added them to my tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Over the next week or so, they all died, roughly one each night. Now
                                                                                                                                                                                        my phantom tetras and one of my rams have the white spots. I have
                                                                                                                                                                                        been reading into this and it appears to be ick. I saw many different
                                                                                                                                                                                        techniques suggested to cure the tank of the problem including M.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Green, adding salt to the tank, and covering the tank so that no light
                                                                                                                                                                                        gets in(not quite positive on that process).

                                                                                                                                                                                        My question is this: What methods have you all in your experience
                                                                                                                                                                                        found to be most effective? And also, what method will be safest for
                                                                                                                                                                                        the fish that I have?

                                                                                                                                                                                        Andy from TN
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11486 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: pea gravel
                                                                                                                                                                                        If it's the 150 gallon tank that Petsmart carried, that's the one I
                                                                                                                                                                                        have, and I love it! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                        The pea gravel will be fine. It's actually what I wish I had used in
                                                                                                                                                                                        mine. Just make sure to rinse it well.

                                                                                                                                                                                        - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                                        Linda Amundsen wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        > I am new to the group. I have been away from the aquarium hobby for
                                                                                                                                                                                        > several years now. We close on our new, larger house at the end of May
                                                                                                                                                                                        > and my husband said that I could get another aquarium. My last tank
                                                                                                                                                                                        > was a 125 gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I am looking at a 150 show tank. I am going to stock it with
                                                                                                                                                                                        > angelfish, keyhole cichlids, gouramis, black phantom tetras, veil tail
                                                                                                                                                                                        > zebra danios, corys and a couple of the smaller plecos and a few
                                                                                                                                                                                        > oticinclis.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > To save some money on the cost of the gravel, I was wondering if I
                                                                                                                                                                                        > could use the pea gravel that they sell at Home Depot. It is a little
                                                                                                                                                                                        > darker than I would like, but I figured I could use half of a lighter
                                                                                                                                                                                        > color from an aquarium store.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                        > River Falls, WI
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                        > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                        > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                        > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11487 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Question about Ick
                                                                                                                                                                                        i've used different ick meds and the one i've found most effective was maracide. malachite green
                                                                                                                                                                                        works ok, too. i also heated the tank to a higher than normal temp while medicating. i think i set
                                                                                                                                                                                        it at 80? maybe it was higher though, can't remember for sure.

                                                                                                                                                                                        ick is a pain in the butt, but i think most aquarists have probably had it in their tanks at one
                                                                                                                                                                                        point or another.

                                                                                                                                                                                        --- Andy <andyn8484@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        > I guess this is an introduction as well as a question to all who read.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I am new to the hobby and have been reading all posts for close to a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > month now. I have recently set up a 55 gal tank with cories, rams,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > and some phantom tetras.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I recently purchased 8 cardinal tetras and added them to my tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Over the next week or so, they all died, roughly one each night. Now
                                                                                                                                                                                        > my phantom tetras and one of my rams have the white spots. I have
                                                                                                                                                                                        > been reading into this and it appears to be ick. I saw many different
                                                                                                                                                                                        > techniques suggested to cure the tank of the problem including M.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Green, adding salt to the tank, and covering the tank so that no light
                                                                                                                                                                                        > gets in(not quite positive on that process).
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > My question is this: What methods have you all in your experience
                                                                                                                                                                                        > found to be most effective? And also, what method will be safest for
                                                                                                                                                                                        > the fish that I have?
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Andy from TN
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                                                                                        I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11488 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: tank weight
                                                                                                                                                                                        If it's the same tank I have, it should be fine. I've had mine in 2
                                                                                                                                                                                        houses and an apartment, and my newest house is the only one where I
                                                                                                                                                                                        could actually see the floor from below. (I did have to pay extra for
                                                                                                                                                                                        them to allow it in the apartment, though. :D )

                                                                                                                                                                                        In fact, I'm a little amazed that the stand that comes with it holds it
                                                                                                                                                                                        up without any problems! If the stand can do it, any modern floor should
                                                                                                                                                                                        be able to.

                                                                                                                                                                                        - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                                        Linda Amundsen wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        > It's the newby again. The tank that I am looking at buying is a 150
                                                                                                                                                                                        > gallon show tank with the dimensions of 48"long x 24"deep x 30" high.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I am guessing that the tank itself weighs about 150 pounds. The water
                                                                                                                                                                                        > is going to weigh in at @ 1260 pounds. The gravel approx 150 pounds
                                                                                                                                                                                        > and the ornamental rocks will add an additional 25 pounds. I am not
                                                                                                                                                                                        > sure on the weight of the stand, but I guess it will be about the same
                                                                                                                                                                                        > as the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > My question is this. Our new house is a split level. I would really
                                                                                                                                                                                        > like the aquarium to be upstairs near the dining room and the living
                                                                                                                                                                                        > room. I know that I must make sure the joists go perpendicular to the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > length of the tank. with the downstairs being finished, how is one
                                                                                                                                                                                        > suppose to find out? Is there any other way I can make sure that my
                                                                                                                                                                                        > floor is strong enough for my tank? The house was built in 1987, so it
                                                                                                                                                                                        > is 18 years old.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Thanks again,
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                        > River Falls, WI
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11489 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Question about Ick
                                                                                                                                                                                        I've used Mardel Coppersafe in the past with success.

                                                                                                                                                                                        - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                                        Andy wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        > I guess this is an introduction as well as a question to all who read.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I am new to the hobby and have been reading all posts for close to a
                                                                                                                                                                                        > month now. I have recently set up a 55 gal tank with cories, rams,
                                                                                                                                                                                        > and some phantom tetras.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I recently purchased 8 cardinal tetras and added them to my tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Over the next week or so, they all died, roughly one each night. Now
                                                                                                                                                                                        > my phantom tetras and one of my rams have the white spots. I have
                                                                                                                                                                                        > been reading into this and it appears to be ick. I saw many different
                                                                                                                                                                                        > techniques suggested to cure the tank of the problem including M.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Green, adding salt to the tank, and covering the tank so that no light
                                                                                                                                                                                        > gets in(not quite positive on that process).
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > My question is this: What methods have you all in your experience
                                                                                                                                                                                        > found to be most effective? And also, what method will be safest for
                                                                                                                                                                                        > the fish that I have?
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Andy from TN
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11490 From: Andreas Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: infusium not growing
                                                                                                                                                                                        Hello all

                                                                                                                                                                                        I have some fish eggs that are supposed to hatch quite soon. It
                                                                                                                                                                                        was recommended to me that I start a batch of infusium (sp?) going.
                                                                                                                                                                                        I filled a 5 gallon jug (like the ones used in water coolers) with 3
                                                                                                                                                                                        gallons of water and added some plant detritus from my plant tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Oddly enough the plants seem to be goriwng a little on the jug :).
                                                                                                                                                                                        But anyway I dont see any mass of micorganisms. The water is not
                                                                                                                                                                                        cloudy at all. Also one of the snails made it in there. Is ther
                                                                                                                                                                                        anything I am doing wrong?

                                                                                                                                                                                        Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11491 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: weird oto/angel behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                        this morning i noticed 2 of my otos hanging off my angel the way they do on the tank walls. the
                                                                                                                                                                                        angel got annoyed and swam away quickly and the otos fell off. as soon as the angel went near the
                                                                                                                                                                                        otos they jumped back onto the angel and did the same thing.

                                                                                                                                                                                        has anyone ever seen this behavior before? do you think something is wrong with either of the 2?
                                                                                                                                                                                        do you think the otos were 'cleaning' the angel? both are otherwise acting normally, eating
                                                                                                                                                                                        normally, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                        I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11492 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Question about Ick
                                                                                                                                                                                            Whatever treatment you use, raise the temperature up to at least 82°, 85° if you want to.  Make sure if the fish look like they start to gasp that you stir up the water or add a good air pump to keep the surface moving.  After that you either have the medicine method, which I have never had much success with, or the salt method, which has worked well for me.  Remove any carbon in your filter, make sure ammonia and nitrite are 0ppm and nitrate is less than 50ppm.  After that, the temperature will speed up the life of ich and possibly prevent them from breeding.  Temps above 85 are supposed to kill ich, and it won't hurt any of the fish you mentioned.  Leave the temps up for 3-4 weeks, and leave it at 80° for at least a month after that, and above 76° all the time after that.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick, a Tennessean Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                        I guess this is an introduction as well as a question to all who read.
                                                                                                                                                                                        I am new to the hobby and have been reading all posts for close to a
                                                                                                                                                                                        month now.  I have recently set up a 55 gal tank with cories, rams,
                                                                                                                                                                                        and some phantom tetras.
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11493 From: diz4555 Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: dwarf gouramis
                                                                                                                                                                                        I have two blue dwarf gouramis in a 29 gal tank. I think they are both
                                                                                                                                                                                        males. One of them is hanging at the top and his sides, right behind
                                                                                                                                                                                        the gills are lumpy, like there is a pea on both sides, but it is not
                                                                                                                                                                                        even, so it looks unnatural. I have looked through books and websites.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Is this a problem? Should I isolate him? Any ideas? I have an angel,
                                                                                                                                                                                        and 4 cory's and a aquatic frog in the aquarium with them. The tank
                                                                                                                                                                                        has been set up for about 3 months with no problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11494 From: harry perry Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: infusium not growing/infusoria
                                                                                                                                                                                        try http://www.karlin1.com/firstfood.htm   Snail waste is infusoria.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Harry

                                                                                                                                                                                        Andreas <andreas1120@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        Hello all

                                                                                                                                                                                             I have some fish eggs that are supposed to hatch quite soon.  It
                                                                                                                                                                                        was recommended to me that I start a batch of infusium (sp?)  going.
                                                                                                                                                                                        I filled a 5 gallon jug (like the ones used in water coolers)  with 3
                                                                                                                                                                                        gallons of water and added some plant detritus from my plant tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Oddly enough the plants seem to be goriwng a little on the jug :). 
                                                                                                                                                                                        But anyway I dont see any mass of micorganisms. The water is not
                                                                                                                                                                                        cloudy at all.  Also one of the snails made it in there.  Is ther
                                                                                                                                                                                        anything I am doing wrong?

                                                                                                                                                                                        Andreas




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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11495 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                            My pH is 6.4-6.7 from the sink and stable once in the tank, and it is city water.  One thing I've learned is that just about every region has different water, and the individual companies do as little to change pH or hardness as possible. 
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                        Generally, tap water is hardly ever distributed to the consumer by a water company, in an acid pH range.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11496 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                        I would not remove the wood, but I gave up on livebearers and fish from pH 7.5 up a while back.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                        I have a liquid test kit that is past date by a couple months. It was giving me weird ammonia readings, but I could try it. Should I actually take out the wood? I like how it looks in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Emily
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11497 From: Eric Miner Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Messed up substrate?
                                                                                                                                                                                        Hello Everybody,

                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm inching ever closer to starting my first tank. My favorite LFS
                                                                                                                                                                                        suggested I use 100% Flourite as they do in the store tanks. Well, I
                                                                                                                                                                                        want a more black substrate so I thought I'd add some darker gravel
                                                                                                                                                                                        over the Flourite, Right now I have 45 lbs. of Flourite in my 46 gl.
                                                                                                                                                                                        bowfront. Another LFS talked me into getting a bag of Eco-Complete byt
                                                                                                                                                                                        Carib Sea (http://www.carib-sea.com/Carib1.htm at bottom of page) and
                                                                                                                                                                                        mix it into the flourite saying that 100% Flourite is a waste.

                                                                                                                                                                                        OK, well and good I guess. But, I don't plan on adding water to the
                                                                                                                                                                                        tank until next week and Eco-Complete has live bacteria so I have to
                                                                                                                                                                                        add it after the water. But, I'd like to get my top most substrate in
                                                                                                                                                                                        place earlier.

                                                                                                                                                                                        So, has anyone used Eco-Complete? Can I add it now or should I wait
                                                                                                                                                                                        til the last minute? Is it useful for it to be under the top most
                                                                                                                                                                                        layer of substrate? Any advice?

                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks in advance...from a confused newbie ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                        Eric
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11498 From: paul helms Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                        i have only seen that with chinese algae eaters who
                                                                                                                                                                                        are sucking on the slime coat of the fish...doing harm
                                                                                                                                                                                        not cleaningh
                                                                                                                                                                                        --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > this morning i noticed 2 of my otos hanging off my
                                                                                                                                                                                        > angel the way they do on the tank walls. the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > angel got annoyed and swam away quickly and the otos
                                                                                                                                                                                        > fell off. as soon as the angel went near the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > otos they jumped back onto the angel and did the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > same thing.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > has anyone ever seen this behavior before? do you
                                                                                                                                                                                        > think something is wrong with either of the 2?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > do you think the otos were 'cleaning' the angel?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > both are otherwise acting normally, eating
                                                                                                                                                                                        > normally, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11499 From: paul helms Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Have LR and Protein Skimmer for Sale
                                                                                                                                                                                        sp you want $8.00 for the rock?
                                                                                                                                                                                        --- Zac Lohrenz <zacdl@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > OK guys I am just asking for offers on them now.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Will sell seperate.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Make me an offer.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > The rock can ship flat rate for $8 in the US and the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > skimmer will
                                                                                                                                                                                        > depend on your zipcode.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Zac Lohrenz"
                                                                                                                                                                                        > <zacdl@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > It is still availible.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Zac Lohrenz"
                                                                                                                                                                                        > <zacdl@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > I have about 10 pounds of LR and a Berlin
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Airlift 90 (1 month old
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > skimmer)
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > I am asking (depending on zip code) $50 shipped
                                                                                                                                                                                        > for both.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Plz let me know.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11500 From: Zac Lohrenz Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Have LR and Protein Skimmer for Sale
                                                                                                                                                                                        SOLD.


                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Zac Lohrenz" <zacdl@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > OK guys I am just asking for offers on them now. Will sell seperate.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Make me an offer.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > The rock can ship flat rate for $8 in the US and the skimmer will
                                                                                                                                                                                        > depend on your zipcode.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Zac Lohrenz" <zacdl@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > It is still availible.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Zac Lohrenz" <zacdl@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > I have about 10 pounds of LR and a Berlin Airlift 90 (1 month old
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > skimmer)
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > I am asking (depending on zip code) $50 shipped for both.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Plz let me know.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11501 From: AL Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Parrot fish
                                                                                                                                                                                        Hello, I have two parrot fish(chiclid) and the one has redstuff
                                                                                                                                                                                        growing in her gill and not sure what is. The gill is fuffy and the
                                                                                                                                                                                        red stuff kind of looks like a dark redweb.I have treated the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                        with fungis and bacteria waffers, but does not seem to help.the
                                                                                                                                                                                        barand was jungle tank buddies.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Al K.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11502 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Native Fish Identification Database
                                                                                                                                                                                        OK, this is pretty cool, particularly if you are into native fish in the
                                                                                                                                                                                        northern tier of states.

                                                                                                                                                                                        University of Wisconsin: Fish Identification Database
                                                                                                                                                                                        http://144.92.62.204/

                                                                                                                                                                                        The Fish Identification Database is an excellent resource for researchers
                                                                                                                                                                                        and others studying fish in the many lakes, ponds, and watercourses of
                                                                                                                                                                                        Wisconsin. The Database was developed collaboratively by the Wisconsin
                                                                                                                                                                                        Department of Natural Resources, the University of Wisconsin's Center for
                                                                                                                                                                                        Limnology and Sea Grant Institute. Although the Database is based on
                                                                                                                                                                                        Wisconsin fish populations, researchers in other states with similar fish
                                                                                                                                                                                        populations will certainly find this resource useful as well. For each fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                        the Database contains multiple images clearly exhibiting different body
                                                                                                                                                                                        parts and views such as the flank, tail, head, top view, and head-on view.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Fish are listed by Common Name, Scientific Name, and Family. The Database
                                                                                                                                                                                        also contains search categories for Snout Shape, Spines, Tail Shape,
                                                                                                                                                                                        Distinctive Features, and more. A glossary is included as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                        >From The NSDL Scout Report for the Life Sciences, Copyright Internet Scout
                                                                                                                                                                                        Project 1994-2005. http://scout.wisc.edu/

                                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                        You know you've found that special someone
                                                                                                                                                                                        When they say those three little words:
                                                                                                                                                                                        "drinks on me".
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11503 From: Andy Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Question about Ick
                                                                                                                                                                                        How much salt do you use when treating the tank? And also, I see you
                                                                                                                                                                                        are from Tennesse, what part if you don't mind my asking? The reason
                                                                                                                                                                                        I ask is because I live in Bristol.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11504 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                        oh my!! what do you suggest i do? give the otos back the lfs?

                                                                                                                                                                                        --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        > i have only seen that with chinese algae eaters who
                                                                                                                                                                                        > are sucking on the slime coat of the fish...doing harm
                                                                                                                                                                                        > not cleaningh
                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > this morning i noticed 2 of my otos hanging off my
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > angel the way they do on the tank walls. the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > angel got annoyed and swam away quickly and the otos
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > fell off. as soon as the angel went near the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > otos they jumped back onto the angel and did the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > same thing.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > has anyone ever seen this behavior before? do you
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > think something is wrong with either of the 2?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > do you think the otos were 'cleaning' the angel?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > both are otherwise acting normally, eating
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > normally, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                                                                                        I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11505 From: paul helms Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                        how long have you had them? if you are not 1000% sure
                                                                                                                                                                                        that they are ottos, and not baby chinese i would look
                                                                                                                                                                                        up some pics of both. ottos require a very high
                                                                                                                                                                                        amount of food and usually die when there is a lack
                                                                                                                                                                                        of algae. maybe they are adapting to a low algae
                                                                                                                                                                                        level?
                                                                                                                                                                                        --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > oh my!! what do you suggest i do? give the otos back
                                                                                                                                                                                        > the lfs?
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > i have only seen that with chinese algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                                        > who
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > are sucking on the slime coat of the fish...doing
                                                                                                                                                                                        > harm
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > not cleaningh
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > this morning i noticed 2 of my otos hanging off
                                                                                                                                                                                        > my
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > angel the way they do on the tank walls. the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > angel got annoyed and swam away quickly and the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > otos
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > fell off. as soon as the angel went near the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > otos they jumped back onto the angel and did the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > same thing.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > has anyone ever seen this behavior before? do
                                                                                                                                                                                        > you
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > think something is wrong with either of the 2?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > do you think the otos were 'cleaning' the angel?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > both are otherwise acting normally, eating
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > normally, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > tour:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11506 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :

                                                                                                                                                                                          [A rare foray into HTML for a message--need to get the symbols correct here.]

                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                          Emily was trying to summarize Tim's talk, and may have summarized a bit too much. It is the first part of the cycle, the conversion of ammonia to nitrite that may cause a drop in the pH. The formula for this part of the cycle is this:
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                          As you can see, this leaves some free hydrogen atoms.
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                          is the formula for conversion of nitrite to nitrate.
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                          There are a number of other chemical reactions happening at the same time.  However, if we put the oxidation of ammonia and the oxidation of nitrite together, we get an equation like this:
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                          So, the end result is a bunch of free hydrogen atoms which can lower the pH.
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                          [Phew! Tough work putting that together, since I don't do it often. Hope it comes out OK on the list.]

                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                          From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kd7poe
                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:27 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: back to pH

                                                                                                                                                                                          I find it very difficult to believe the teachings of this Phd from
                                                                                                                                                                                          Marineland. If this were true, and I don't believe it is, then you
                                                                                                                                                                                          can throw out the window everything I have learned over 20+ years of
                                                                                                                                                                                          fishkeeping. I will list several things that I find it hard to
                                                                                                                                                                                          believe.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1) I do not believe that Nitrates have a Major affect on PH. Yes
                                                                                                                                                                                          Ammonia and Nitrite do, but if you wait for the PH to change I think
                                                                                                                                                                                          you will probably have a major ammonia spike. 500ppm? I can't even
                                                                                                                                                                                          imagine a tank with this high a count. I think everything would be
                                                                                                                                                                                          dead or dying. Besides if you change the water every week, and you
                                                                                                                                                                                          use Ph as your parameter, why do you bother testing the PH.

                                                                                                                                                                                          2)I believe this is a quote "the bacteria that break down the
                                                                                                                                                                                          physical dirt out compete the nitrifying bacteria" I don't believe
                                                                                                                                                                                          there is a bacteria that breaks down the physical dirt. If so we
                                                                                                                                                                                          would never have to change the media. I believe that the nitrifying
                                                                                                                                                                                          bacteria cuts down on the toxicity of the physical dirt but does not
                                                                                                                                                                                          change its character. Therefore we change the media when our filter
                                                                                                                                                                                          flow is diminished.

                                                                                                                                                                                          3) I have been led to believe that The "Good" Bacteria, once
                                                                                                                                                                                          established, is all over the tank, water. filter, media, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                          Although I believe by using Bio Wheels, Bio Balls, Bio Tubes etc we
                                                                                                                                                                                          give it additional places to adhere.

                                                                                                                                                                                          4) PH does change, not due to the Nitrates, but due to the factors
                                                                                                                                                                                          and/or ingredients of our tank. I know mine will change when I do a
                                                                                                                                                                                          water change, if I don't add a PH buffer.

                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm sure I probably have missed something but these are the items
                                                                                                                                                                                          that stick out right now.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Not everyone will agree on all these, but that is what makes this
                                                                                                                                                                                          such a interesting HOBBY. We may not all do things the same way but
                                                                                                                                                                                          hopefuly the end result is a Healthy Aquarium.

                                                                                                                                                                                          John in Nevada




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                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 11507 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                          Back to my normal plain text to finish my reply. There are bacteria that
                                                                                                                                                                                          break down the dirt--or solid waste in the aquarium. If you have used UGF's,
                                                                                                                                                                                          you may have noticed the mulm that collects under them. This substance is
                                                                                                                                                                                          inert, and there fore, in and of itself, harmless to the organisms in the
                                                                                                                                                                                          aquarium. The reason this is so is that there are other bacteria in the
                                                                                                                                                                                          aquarium that do this work. Like the nitrobacter and nitrosoma that take
                                                                                                                                                                                          care of the ammonia cycle for us, these bacteria also need oxygen. In a UGF
                                                                                                                                                                                          situation, it is possible for the types of bacteria to compete for the
                                                                                                                                                                                          available space, and one can overwhelm the other, if the circumstances are
                                                                                                                                                                                          correct for this to happen.

                                                                                                                                                                                          You are correct that the bacteria will colonize available areas in the
                                                                                                                                                                                          aquarium, however, they will tend to congregate where the feeding and oxygen
                                                                                                                                                                                          levels are the best. Hence we try to provide them with those areas in the
                                                                                                                                                                                          form of UGF's and biowheels and other such things.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Freshwater fish seem to be more tolerant to nitrate levels than are brackish
                                                                                                                                                                                          and marine fish. However, each species has a different tolerance level for
                                                                                                                                                                                          nitrates (and nitrites and ammonia) so it does behoove us to maintain a low
                                                                                                                                                                                          level of nitrates in the aquarium. Most fish can take 150 to 200 nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                          with little or no long-term effects. But, rather than let it reach that
                                                                                                                                                                                          level, doing regular water changes and following good maintenance practices
                                                                                                                                                                                          will keep your levels far below that. Research on how long fish can survive
                                                                                                                                                                                          with no ill effects from high nitrates is incomplete and scattered at best,
                                                                                                                                                                                          and we manly have anecdotal evidence to go by.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Also, for further clarity, I do know Tim Hovenac, and have for a good many
                                                                                                                                                                                          years. It has been a few years since I last talked with him, but he is
                                                                                                                                                                                          definitely knowledgeable, and has done quite a bit of work in the water
                                                                                                                                                                                          quality area.

                                                                                                                                                                                          \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                          From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                          Behalf Of kd7poe
                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:27 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: back to pH

                                                                                                                                                                                          I find it very difficult to believe the teachings of this Phd from
                                                                                                                                                                                          Marineland. If this were true, and I don't believe it is, then you
                                                                                                                                                                                          can throw out the window everything I have learned over 20+ years of
                                                                                                                                                                                          fishkeeping. I will list several things that I find it hard to
                                                                                                                                                                                          believe.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1) I do not believe that Nitrates have a Major affect on PH. Yes
                                                                                                                                                                                          Ammonia and Nitrite do, but if you wait for the PH to change I think
                                                                                                                                                                                          you will probably have a major ammonia spike. 500ppm? I can't even
                                                                                                                                                                                          imagine a tank with this high a count. I think everything would be
                                                                                                                                                                                          dead or dying. Besides if you change the water every week, and you
                                                                                                                                                                                          use Ph as your parameter, why do you bother testing the PH.

                                                                                                                                                                                          2)I believe this is a quote "the bacteria that break down the
                                                                                                                                                                                          physical dirt out compete the nitrifying bacteria" I don't believe
                                                                                                                                                                                          there is a bacteria that breaks down the physical dirt. If so we
                                                                                                                                                                                          would never have to change the media. I believe that the nitrifying
                                                                                                                                                                                          bacteria cuts down on the toxicity of the physical dirt but does not
                                                                                                                                                                                          change its character. Therefore we change the media when our filter
                                                                                                                                                                                          flow is diminished.

                                                                                                                                                                                          3) I have been led to believe that The "Good" Bacteria, once
                                                                                                                                                                                          established, is all over the tank, water. filter, media, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                          Although I believe by using Bio Wheels, Bio Balls, Bio Tubes etc we
                                                                                                                                                                                          give it additional places to adhere.

                                                                                                                                                                                          4) PH does change, not due to the Nitrates, but due to the factors
                                                                                                                                                                                          and/or ingredients of our tank. I know mine will change when I do a
                                                                                                                                                                                          water change, if I don't add a PH buffer.

                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm sure I probably have missed something but these are the items
                                                                                                                                                                                          that stick out right now.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Not everyone will agree on all these, but that is what makes this
                                                                                                                                                                                          such a interesting HOBBY. We may not all do things the same way but
                                                                                                                                                                                          hopefuly the end result is a Healthy Aquarium.

                                                                                                                                                                                          John in Nevada





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                                                                                                                                                                                          in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 11508 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: back to pH
                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                            OK, looks like something happened to that second formula. Here we try again with it:
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            Hope it comes out this time.
                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                                                                                            From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo
                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 11:43 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: back to pH

                                                                                                                                                                                            [A rare foray into HTML for a message--need to get the symbols correct here.]

                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            Emily was trying to summarize Tim's talk, and may have summarized a bit too much. It is the first part of the cycle, the conversion of ammonia to nitrite that may cause a drop in the pH. The formula for this part of the cycle is this:
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            As you can see, this leaves some free hydrogen atoms.
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            is the formula for conversion of nitrite to nitrate.
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            There are a number of other chemical reactions happening at the same time.  However, if we put the oxidation of ammonia and the oxidation of nitrite together, we get an equation like this:
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            So, the end result is a bunch of free hydrogen atoms which can lower the pH.
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            [Phew! Tough work putting that together, since I don't do it often. Hope it comes out OK on the list.]

                                                                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                            From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kd7poe
                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:27 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                            To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: back to pH

                                                                                                                                                                                            I find it very difficult to believe the teachings of this Phd from
                                                                                                                                                                                            Marineland. If this were true, and I don't believe it is, then you
                                                                                                                                                                                            can throw out the window everything I have learned over 20+ years of
                                                                                                                                                                                            fishkeeping. I will list several things that I find it hard to
                                                                                                                                                                                            believe.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1) I do not believe that Nitrates have a Major affect on PH. Yes
                                                                                                                                                                                            Ammonia and Nitrite do, but if you wait for the PH to change I think
                                                                                                                                                                                            you will probably have a major ammonia spike. 500ppm? I can't even
                                                                                                                                                                                            imagine a tank with this high a count. I think everything would be
                                                                                                                                                                                            dead or dying. Besides if you change the water every week, and you
                                                                                                                                                                                            use Ph as your parameter, why do you bother testing the PH.

                                                                                                                                                                                            2)I believe this is a quote "the bacteria that break down the
                                                                                                                                                                                            physical dirt out compete the nitrifying bacteria" I don't believe
                                                                                                                                                                                            there is a bacteria that breaks down the physical dirt. If so we
                                                                                                                                                                                            would never have to change the media. I believe that the nitrifying
                                                                                                                                                                                            bacteria cuts down on the toxicity of the physical dirt but does not
                                                                                                                                                                                            change its character. Therefore we change the media when our filter
                                                                                                                                                                                            flow is diminished.

                                                                                                                                                                                            3) I have been led to believe that The "Good" Bacteria, once
                                                                                                                                                                                            established, is all over the tank, water. filter, media, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                            Although I believe by using Bio Wheels, Bio Balls, Bio Tubes etc we
                                                                                                                                                                                            give it additional places to adhere.

                                                                                                                                                                                            4) PH does change, not due to the Nitrates, but due to the factors
                                                                                                                                                                                            and/or ingredients of our tank. I know mine will change when I do a
                                                                                                                                                                                            water change, if I don't add a PH buffer.

                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm sure I probably have missed something but these are the items
                                                                                                                                                                                            that stick out right now.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Not everyone will agree on all these, but that is what makes this
                                                                                                                                                                                            such a interesting HOBBY. We may not all do things the same way but
                                                                                                                                                                                            hopefuly the end result is a Healthy Aquarium.

                                                                                                                                                                                            John in Nevada
                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 11509 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Best on-line plant dealer?
                                                                                                                                                                                            Thank you for the links!
                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 11510 From: secretlaw Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: pea gravel
                                                                                                                                                                                            I am using the play sand from Homedepot too, but I spent a long time
                                                                                                                                                                                            make sure it has been cleaned before I put them in the tank. Also, I
                                                                                                                                                                                            soaked them in the water for a long perios time.

                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Linda Amundsen"
                                                                                                                                                                                            <Crazy4fids@a...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                            > I am new to the group. I have been away from the aquarium hobby
                                                                                                                                                                                            for
                                                                                                                                                                                            > several years now. We close on our new, larger house at the end
                                                                                                                                                                                            of May
                                                                                                                                                                                            > and my husband said that I could get another aquarium. My last
                                                                                                                                                                                            tank
                                                                                                                                                                                            > was a 125 gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                            > I am looking at a 150 show tank. I am going to stock it with
                                                                                                                                                                                            > angelfish, keyhole cichlids, gouramis, black phantom tetras, veil
                                                                                                                                                                                            tail
                                                                                                                                                                                            > zebra danios, corys and a couple of the smaller plecos and a few
                                                                                                                                                                                            > oticinclis.
                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                            > To save some money on the cost of the gravel, I was wondering if I
                                                                                                                                                                                            > could use the pea gravel that they sell at Home Depot. It is a
                                                                                                                                                                                            little
                                                                                                                                                                                            > darker than I would like, but I figured I could use half of a
                                                                                                                                                                                            lighter
                                                                                                                                                                                            > color from an aquarium store.
                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                            > Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                            > River Falls, WI
                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 11511 From: secretlaw Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Question about Ick
                                                                                                                                                                                            Actually, it is quite easy to cure the ick with the exception on clown
                                                                                                                                                                                            loaches. Just go to any pet store and look for any medication for ick
                                                                                                                                                                                            and follow the instruction on the label, it should be easy to cure the
                                                                                                                                                                                            fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                            -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Andy" <andyn8484@g...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                            > I guess this is an introduction as well as a question to all who read.
                                                                                                                                                                                            > I am new to the hobby and have been reading all posts for close to a
                                                                                                                                                                                            > month now. I have recently set up a 55 gal tank with cories, rams,
                                                                                                                                                                                            > and some phantom tetras.
                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                            > I recently purchased 8 cardinal tetras and added them to my tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                            > Over the next week or so, they all died, roughly one each night. Now
                                                                                                                                                                                            > my phantom tetras and one of my rams have the white spots. I have
                                                                                                                                                                                            > been reading into this and it appears to be ick. I saw many different
                                                                                                                                                                                            > techniques suggested to cure the tank of the problem including M.
                                                                                                                                                                                            > Green, adding salt to the tank, and covering the tank so that no light
                                                                                                                                                                                            > gets in(not quite positive on that process).
                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                            > My question is this: What methods have you all in your experience
                                                                                                                                                                                            > found to be most effective? And also, what method will be safest for
                                                                                                                                                                                            > the fish that I have?
                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                            > Andy from TN
                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 11512 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/13/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 5/13/2005 7:44:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                            <><><>how long have you had them? if you are not 1000% sure
                                                                                                                                                                                            that they are ottos, and not baby chinese i would look
                                                                                                                                                                                            up some pics of both.   ottos require a very high
                                                                                                                                                                                            amount of food and usually die when there is a  lack
                                                                                                                                                                                            of algae.  maybe they are adapting to a low algae
                                                                                                                                                                                            level?<><><>
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            If the Oto's are on the glass with undersides facing you you should be able to see their eyes...that is if I remember correctly.  :)
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 11513 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                              i've had the otos for about 4 mos approximately. i'm pretty sure that they're otos and not chinese algae eaters from the photos i saw online. i attached some photos of the otos in my tank, let me know what you think.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              their tummies usually look nice & round so i'm assuming they are getting enough to eat. i know there's never any algae on the tank walls, esp. compared to my other tanks w/o otos where the algae has to be cleaned off occasionally.

                                                                                                                                                                                              paul helms <wtfmorlok@yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              how long have you had them? if you are not 1000% sure
                                                                                                                                                                                              that they are ottos, and not baby chinese i would look
                                                                                                                                                                                              up some pics of both.   ottos require a very high
                                                                                                                                                                                              amount of food and usually die when there is a  lack
                                                                                                                                                                                              of algae.  maybe they are adapting to a low algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              level?
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > oh my!! what do you suggest i do? give the otos back
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the lfs?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > i have only seen that with chinese algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                                              > who
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > are sucking on the slime coat of the fish...doing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > harm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > not cleaningh
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@yahoo.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > this morning i noticed 2 of my otos hanging off
                                                                                                                                                                                              > my
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > angel the way they do on the tank walls. the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > angel got annoyed and swam away quickly and the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > otos
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > fell off. as soon as the angel went near the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > otos they jumped back onto the angel and did the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > same thing.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > has anyone ever seen this behavior before? do
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > think something is wrong with either of the 2?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > do you think the otos were 'cleaning' the angel?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > both are otherwise acting normally, eating
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > normally, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >            
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > tour:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >


                                                                                                                                                                                                         
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                                                                                              I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11514 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                              then they're most likely otos because i can see their eyes on the sides even when their stomachs are facing me.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Deenerz@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/13/2005 7:44:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                              <><><>how long have you had them? if you are not 1000% sure
                                                                                                                                                                                              that they are ottos, and not baby chinese i would look
                                                                                                                                                                                              up some pics of both.   ottos require a very high
                                                                                                                                                                                              amount of food and usually die when there is a  lack
                                                                                                                                                                                              of algae.  maybe they are adapting to a low algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              level?<><><>
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              If the Oto's are on the glass with undersides facing you you should be able to see their eyes...that is if I remember correctly.  :)
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Mike


                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                                                                                              I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11515 From: mike mather Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Messed up substrate?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Eric, EC is a great substrate. I have it in three of
                                                                                                                                                                                              my tanks, but there are some negatives with it.
                                                                                                                                                                                              If you are going to grow plants using
                                                                                                                                                                                              strong lighting(2-4 watts per gallon)and co2
                                                                                                                                                                                              injection, you will most likely develop Hair algae. It
                                                                                                                                                                                              seems to be common with EC users. It is also a very
                                                                                                                                                                                              light weight substrate, so you need to be careful
                                                                                                                                                                                              when filling your tank and choices of fish. A fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              that likes to dig in the gravel will uproot your
                                                                                                                                                                                              plants easily. You can put it on top of the Flourite
                                                                                                                                                                                              but the roots won't be able to take full advantage of
                                                                                                                                                                                              its nutrients, though I think it will settle in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              Flourite due to its finer particles. Mixing it sounds
                                                                                                                                                                                              good but you wont get the really dark look of just
                                                                                                                                                                                              EC. I think the mixture would probably look cool! I
                                                                                                                                                                                              have 10G tank with a bag of EC on the bottom for the
                                                                                                                                                                                              plant roots and beach sand on top for my loaches who
                                                                                                                                                                                              like to burrow. Hope I helped some! Mike P.S.
                                                                                                                                                                                              American Flag Fish are great consumers of Hair Algae.
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hello Everybody,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I'm inching ever closer to starting my first tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > My favorite LFS
                                                                                                                                                                                              > suggested I use 100% Flourite as they do in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > store tanks. Well, I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > want a more black substrate so I thought I'd add
                                                                                                                                                                                              > some darker gravel
                                                                                                                                                                                              > over the Flourite, Right now I have 45 lbs. of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Flourite in my 46 gl.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > bowfront. Another LFS talked me into getting a bag
                                                                                                                                                                                              > of Eco-Complete byt
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Carib Sea (http://www.carib-sea.com/Carib1.htm at
                                                                                                                                                                                              > bottom of page) and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > mix it into the flourite saying that 100% Flourite
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is a waste.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > OK, well and good I guess. But, I don't plan on
                                                                                                                                                                                              > adding water to the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > tank until next week and Eco-Complete has live
                                                                                                                                                                                              > bacteria so I have to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > add it after the water. But, I'd like to get my top
                                                                                                                                                                                              > most substrate in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > place earlier.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > So, has anyone used Eco-Complete? Can I add it now
                                                                                                                                                                                              > or should I wait
                                                                                                                                                                                              > til the last minute? Is it useful for it to be under
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the top most
                                                                                                                                                                                              > layer of substrate? Any advice?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks in advance...from a confused newbie ;-)
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Eric
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11516 From: paul helms Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                              looks like an o0tto

                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > i've had the otos for about 4 mos approximately. i'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > pretty sure that they're otos and not chinese algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > eaters from the photos i saw online. i attached some
                                                                                                                                                                                              > photos of the otos in my tank, let me know what you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > think.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > their tummies usually look nice & round so i'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > assuming they are getting enough to eat. i know
                                                                                                                                                                                              > there's never any algae on the tank walls, esp.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > compared to my other tanks w/o otos where the algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > has to be cleaned off occasionally.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > how long have you had them? if you are not 1000%
                                                                                                                                                                                              > sure
                                                                                                                                                                                              > that they are ottos, and not baby chinese i would
                                                                                                                                                                                              > look
                                                                                                                                                                                              > up some pics of both. ottos require a very high
                                                                                                                                                                                              > amount of food and usually die when there is a lack
                                                                                                                                                                                              > of algae. maybe they are adapting to a low algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > level?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > oh my!! what do you suggest i do? give the otos
                                                                                                                                                                                              > back
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the lfs?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > i have only seen that with chinese algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > who
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > are sucking on the slime coat of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish...doing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > harm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > not cleaningh
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > this morning i noticed 2 of my otos hanging
                                                                                                                                                                                              > off
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > my
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > angel the way they do on the tank walls. the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > angel got annoyed and swam away quickly and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > otos
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > fell off. as soon as the angel went near the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > otos they jumped back onto the angel and did
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > same thing.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > has anyone ever seen this behavior before? do
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > think something is wrong with either of the 2?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > do you think the otos were 'cleaning' the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > angel?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > both are otherwise acting normally, eating
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > normally, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > tour:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                                              > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                                                                                              > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                              > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                                              >





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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11517 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                              that's what i thought. now the question is, what do i do?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              when i got home tonight angel had some whitish stuff on him that disappeared after awhile. it looked like a fungus. i treated with maracide tablet that i'm supposed to repeat for 5 days straight.

                                                                                                                                                                                              paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              looks like an o0tto

                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > i've had the otos for about 4 mos approximately. i'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > pretty sure that they're otos and not chinese algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > eaters from the photos i saw online. i attached some
                                                                                                                                                                                              > photos of the otos in my tank, let me know what you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > think.

                                                                                                                                                                                              > their tummies usually look nice & round so i'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > assuming they are getting enough to eat. i know
                                                                                                                                                                                              > there's never any algae on the tank walls, esp.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > compared to my other tanks w/o otos where the algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > has to be cleaned off occasionally.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > how long have you had them? if you are not 1000%
                                                                                                                                                                                              > sure
                                                                                                                                                                                              > that they are ottos, and not baby chinese i would
                                                                                                                                                                                              > look
                                                                                                                                                                                              > up some pics of both.   ottos require a very high
                                                                                                                                                                                              > amount of food and usually die when there is a  lack
                                                                                                                                                                                              > of algae.  maybe they are adapting to a low algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > level?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > oh my!! what do you suggest i do? give the otos
                                                                                                                                                                                              > back
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the lfs?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > i have only seen that with chinese algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > who
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > are sucking on the slime coat of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish...doing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > harm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > not cleaningh
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > this morning i noticed 2 of my otos hanging
                                                                                                                                                                                              > off
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > my
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > angel the way they do on the tank walls. the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > angel got annoyed and swam away quickly and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > otos
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > fell off. as soon as the angel went near the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > otos they jumped back onto the angel and did
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > same thing.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > has anyone ever seen this behavior before? do
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > think something is wrong with either of the 2?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > do you think the otos were 'cleaning' the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > angel?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > both are otherwise acting normally, eating
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > normally, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >            
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > tour:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >            
                                                                                                                                                                                              > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Mail Mobile
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > mobile phone.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                                              > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                                              > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                                                                                              > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                              > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                                                                                                              >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              >



                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                                                                                              Valeen Robertson Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                              I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11518 From: paul helms Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                              replace them
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > that's what i thought. now the question is, what do
                                                                                                                                                                                              > i do?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > when i got home tonight angel had some whitish stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                              > on him that disappeared after awhile. it looked like
                                                                                                                                                                                              > a fungus. i treated with maracide tablet that i'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > supposed to repeat for 5 days straight.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > looks like an o0tto
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > i've had the otos for about 4 mos approximately.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > i'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > pretty sure that they're otos and not chinese
                                                                                                                                                                                              > algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > eaters from the photos i saw online. i attached
                                                                                                                                                                                              > some
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > photos of the otos in my tank, let me know what
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > think.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > their tummies usually look nice & round so i'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > assuming they are getting enough to eat. i know
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > there's never any algae on the tank walls, esp.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > compared to my other tanks w/o otos where the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > has to be cleaned off occasionally.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > how long have you had them? if you are not 1000%
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > sure
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > that they are ottos, and not baby chinese i would
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > look
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > up some pics of both. ottos require a very high
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > amount of food and usually die when there is a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > lack
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > of algae. maybe they are adapting to a low algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > level?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > oh my!! what do you suggest i do? give the otos
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > back
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > the lfs?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > i have only seen that with chinese algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > eaters
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > who
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > are sucking on the slime coat of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > fish...doing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > harm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > not cleaningh
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > --- Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                              > <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > this morning i noticed 2 of my otos hanging
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > off
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > my
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > angel the way they do on the tank walls. the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > angel got annoyed and swam away quickly and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > otos
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > fell off. as soon as the angel went near the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > otos they jumped back onto the angel and did
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > same thing.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > has anyone ever seen this behavior before?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > do
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > think something is wrong with either of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > 2?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > do you think the otos were 'cleaning' the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > angel?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > both are otherwise acting normally, eating
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > normally, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > tour:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Mail Mobile
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
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                                                                                                                                                                                              > when
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > subject
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)"
                                                                                                                                                                                              > <-,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                                              > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                                                                                              > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                              > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Valeen Robertson Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >




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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11519 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                              The stability of the reagent chemicals in liquid test kits can vary,
                                                                                                                                                                                              depending on type of kit. You're probably best replacing your
                                                                                                                                                                                              ammonia reagent, especially if its giving you weird readings. The
                                                                                                                                                                                              liquid pH test reagent is generally more stable, as I've never seen
                                                                                                                                                                                              it give false readings even far after the expiration date, and do
                                                                                                                                                                                              recommend getting at least this one as a liquid kit. By the way, you
                                                                                                                                                                                              never said what your pH reading is, with the pH test strips. Oh
                                                                                                                                                                                              yeah, keep the wood in there. Again, you still haven't said if you
                                                                                                                                                                                              got the low pH reading with the wood being in the aquarium, but have
                                                                                                                                                                                              to assume so from what I'm gathering. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar <bababanana@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I have a liquid test kit that is past date by a couple months. It
                                                                                                                                                                                              was giving me weird ammonia readings, but I could try it. Should I
                                                                                                                                                                                              actually take out the wood? I like how it looks in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Your hardness no doubt is due to magnesium carbonates; the crushed
                                                                                                                                                                                              > shells and coral will help buffer the water by increasing the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > alkalinity, but in itself won't raise the pH very much. You'll
                                                                                                                                                                                              > probably need to add some baking soda. For your pH to be at its
                                                                                                                                                                                              > lowest test reading (whatever that is) is very unusual, unless
                                                                                                                                                                                              you've
                                                                                                                                                                                              > already added the driftwood. Generally, tap water is hardly ever
                                                                                                                                                                                              > distributed to the consumer by a water company, in an acid pH
                                                                                                                                                                                              range.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Would like to make one recommendation, and that is to consider
                                                                                                                                                                                              > getting liquid test kits, singularly or as one master kit, as these
                                                                                                                                                                                              > kits are much more accurate and reliable (many strip kits have an
                                                                                                                                                                                              > expiration date). Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I got a 5 in one test strip that measures pH, alkalinity,
                                                                                                                                                                                              hardness,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > nitrite and nitrate. Hardness was around 120ppm. Anyway, well it
                                                                                                                                                                                              was
                                                                                                                                                                                              > a little harder than the middle reading. the pH pad and alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                              > were both at the lowest possible value on the strip. I did end up
                                                                                                                                                                                              > adding some crushed shells and coral so we'll see what happens.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Emily, Since your test strip measured 0, I have to assume that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > these
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > strips are for measuring alkalinity -- CACO3 (correct me if I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > wrong), and are not measuring pH, since you can't get a 0 reading
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > with a pH test but instead get a reading (based on comparative
                                                                                                                                                                                              > color
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > chart of from yellow - 6.0, to dark blue - 7.8). Alkalinity test
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > strips do not measure Total Alkalinity (as including magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > carbonate) in the test, but only calcium carbonate. If you ARE
                                                                                                                                                                                              SURE
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > you have hard water you can get a 0 reading for Alkalinity with
                                                                                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > test strips -- in this case, for calcium carbonates, and still
                                                                                                                                                                                              have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > magnesium carbonates which makes water hard. I also have to
                                                                                                                                                                                              assume
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > you've taken a hardness test, and again correct me if I'm wrong.
                                                                                                                                                                                              If
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > in fact your water is hard, as you say, its no doubt due to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > carbonates, in which case you have your buffering capacity and DO
                                                                                                                                                                                              > NOT
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > need to add limestone. Your water should remain fairly stable,
                                                                                                                                                                                              with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the addition of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) as needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > that's what my test strip said :\
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Emily, You're the one who seems to think that your alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                              is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > 0,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > as per your previous post # 11042 (May 12, 12:05PM) Why would
                                                                                                                                                                                              you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > think your alkalinity is 0 if you're now saying that your water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > already hard? Or am I missing something? If your water is hard
                                                                                                                                                                                              it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > must have calcium or magnesium carbonates, -- alkalinity --
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > buffering
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > capacity. Therefore, the water should remain fairly stable with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > use of only sodium bicarbonate, as additional calcite
                                                                                                                                                                                              (limestone)
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > should not be needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > The stupid piece of wood costed $30 >:(
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > I''ll try the limestone. But my water is already hard, so why
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > would
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > alkalinity be 0?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Emily, Rather than using sodium bicarbonate, first use
                                                                                                                                                                                              calcium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > carbonate (limestone) to increase the buffering capacity of
                                                                                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > water,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > if you don't think the fish will mind hard water too much --
                                                                                                                                                                                              I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > don't
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > know what kinds of fish you have. Generally, most fish can
                                                                                                                                                                                              take
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > moderately hard water. With using baking soda first, the pH
                                                                                                                                                                                              is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > likely
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > to bounce as there's no buffering capacity yet. I presume you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > want
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > approach the parameters of your tap water to make water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > changing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > less
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > stressful. If the driftwood is small enough to fit in a large
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > pot,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > might try boiling it, otherwise soak it for a week or so in a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > large
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > bucket with added baking soda, then rinse well. Can't say how
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > much
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > your wood might lower the pH without knowing its size and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > whether
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > its
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > African or Malasian driftwood. Its not bad in the sense that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > many
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > people use it, but it does have the tendency to lower the pH.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > \ --
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > I have a large piece of wood in my new tank. Is this bad
                                                                                                                                                                                              and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > will
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > lower the pH too much? I'm planning a trip to the aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > store
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > later
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > to get some limestone or coral to raise alkalinity. Maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                              I'll
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > just
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > add
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > some baking soda to hold out until then. How much would I add
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > 55
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > gal with a pH of 6.4 and 0 alkalinity?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                                              replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              original
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re:
                                                                                                                                                                                              old
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                              > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
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                                                                                                                                                                                              matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > .
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                                                                                                                                                                                              > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                              > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
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                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > .
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                                                                                                                                                                                              important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11520 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks Patrick -- good to know. While I realised that water supplies
                                                                                                                                                                                              will vary in different parts of the country, I had read somewhere that
                                                                                                                                                                                              water companies want to deliver the water throughout their
                                                                                                                                                                                              infastructure in an alkaline zone, rather than acid, mainly for the
                                                                                                                                                                                              benefit of themselves, and will add chemicals to adjust the pH if
                                                                                                                                                                                              needed. Reason being, that after time acid water can start to erode
                                                                                                                                                                                              their piping. While it may sound far-fetched, my thoughts go to the
                                                                                                                                                                                              fact that we drink Coke, but if spilled on a car's finish, will take
                                                                                                                                                                                              the paint off. Possibly water companies' policy differ on this? Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \ --
                                                                                                                                                                                              - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick, AAFG" <patrickmn1@h...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > My pH is 6.4-6.7 from the sink and stable once in the tank, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              it is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > city water. One thing I've learned is that just about every region
                                                                                                                                                                                              has
                                                                                                                                                                                              > different water, and the individual companies do as little to change
                                                                                                                                                                                              pH or
                                                                                                                                                                                              > hardness as possible.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more
                                                                                                                                                                                              money!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Generally, tap water is hardly ever distributed to the consumer by a
                                                                                                                                                                                              water company, in an acid pH range.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11521 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: infusium not growing
                                                                                                                                                                                              Andreas, While snail waste itself is of course not infusoria, it is
                                                                                                                                                                                              one of the best foods to allow infusoria to multiply. There is also
                                                                                                                                                                                              a good population of infusoria in green water (suspended algae), and
                                                                                                                                                                                              especially so with a combination of these two. But, you need to
                                                                                                                                                                                              start your infusoria culture at least a week in advance of when you
                                                                                                                                                                                              think you are going to need it. If no infusoria are available at
                                                                                                                                                                                              the time your fry will be feeding, you can try APR (artifical
                                                                                                                                                                                              plankton rotifer) a powdered food by Ocean Star, or try powdered
                                                                                                                                                                                              spirulina. Hardboiled egg-yolk infusion also works (strained through
                                                                                                                                                                                              a handkerchief), but can foul the water if you don't know what you're
                                                                                                                                                                                              doing. Liquifry, in a tube, is also available on the market,
                                                                                                                                                                                              although I never had success with it when I tried it. Then to, there
                                                                                                                                                                                              are also things like microworms and vinegar eels, which you may be
                                                                                                                                                                                              able to purchase at a better lfs. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Andreas <andreas1120@g...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hello all
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I have some fish eggs that are supposed to hatch quite soon.
                                                                                                                                                                                              It
                                                                                                                                                                                              > was recommended to me that I start a batch of infusium (sp?)
                                                                                                                                                                                              going.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I filled a 5 gallon jug (like the ones used in water coolers) with
                                                                                                                                                                                              3
                                                                                                                                                                                              > gallons of water and added some plant detritus from my plant tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Oddly enough the plants seem to be goriwng a little on the jug :).
                                                                                                                                                                                              > But anyway I dont see any mass of micorganisms. The water is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > cloudy at all. Also one of the snails made it in there. Is ther
                                                                                                                                                                                              > anything I am doing wrong?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11522 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Hi Im a new member and have Angels/Heather Norton
                                                                                                                                                                                              One reason why your veiltail Angel is being picked on rather than your
                                                                                                                                                                                              common Angel could be because the Veiltail can't swim as fast to get
                                                                                                                                                                                              out of the Marbles' territory (if you're sure they're pairing off). If
                                                                                                                                                                                              in fact your marble half blacks are pairing off, the common Angel won't
                                                                                                                                                                                              be dominant for very much longer. My suggestion if the marbles are
                                                                                                                                                                                              pairing off, is to leave them in the 24 gallon and move everything else
                                                                                                                                                                                              to the thirty gallon, including the veiltail and common Angels.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Feeding your Angels baby guppies will not make them mean. The reason
                                                                                                                                                                                              behind not feeding baby guppies to the Angels comes from an old theory
                                                                                                                                                                                              that feeding them guppies will encourage them to eat their own fry if
                                                                                                                                                                                              and when they spawn. Without being able to see the exact extent of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              fin damage on the veiltail, I can't give you an exact answer as to how
                                                                                                                                                                                              long its going to take the fins to regenerate, but usually most fin
                                                                                                                                                                                              damage of this sort is healed in two weeks -- three at the most (if not
                                                                                                                                                                                              extensive). Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \ --
                                                                                                                                                                                              - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Heather Norton" <hnorton1@c...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > My problem started the other day ,sometime Sunday three days after I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > purched my Angels I was sad to see my veiltail was being beat on and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > found out my widow tetras were in on it so took them out ,then late
                                                                                                                                                                                              > yeasterday found my two marble half blacks were pairing of so felt
                                                                                                                                                                                              they
                                                                                                                                                                                              > were also in on it but why are they not bothering my common angel .?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > They are all from the same tank the same age and size but in a 24 gal
                                                                                                                                                                                              > tank that I am going to put them into a thirty gal in a bout two
                                                                                                                                                                                              weeks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > so if their pairing of should I remove the common angel who seems to
                                                                                                                                                                                              be
                                                                                                                                                                                              > domanent and they get along ,also I,ve been told not to feed them the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > baby guppies and given so recapies but does this make them mean
                                                                                                                                                                                              > .They have lots of plants but how long will if ever it get them to
                                                                                                                                                                                              get
                                                                                                                                                                                              > their lovely fins back ?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Heather Norton
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11523 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Please help me. I am trying to set up my tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              Charlene,

                                                                                                                                                                                              Generally powerheads are used to power undergravel filters. If this is what
                                                                                                                                                                                              you are using, then place one of the 1200's you have on each of two of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              uplift tubes. You'll not need to use the uplift tubes in the center area of
                                                                                                                                                                                              the tank, so if you have it set up that way, remove the uplift tubes and cap
                                                                                                                                                                                              the tube holes in the filter. There are various theories about how to place
                                                                                                                                                                                              the outputs, so you can experiment to see which works best for you. You can
                                                                                                                                                                                              place them so that they cause water to circulate in a clockwise or counter
                                                                                                                                                                                              clockwise motion around the tank, you could have them facing each other,
                                                                                                                                                                                              you can have them both pointing to the center of the front of the tank, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                              If you are not using a UGF, then the usage would be up to you in placement,
                                                                                                                                                                                              and whether you need more water circulation within the tank. This is useful
                                                                                                                                                                                              if you have fish that come from fast moving waters, like many of the pleco
                                                                                                                                                                                              type fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Charlene
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 7:03 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Please help me. I am trying to set up my tank

                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Ok I have my hearters. and my sand. Now I need to know about Max-
                                                                                                                                                                                              jet. I have 3 of them. 1 I have Max-jet 900, 2 Max-jet 1200. Should I
                                                                                                                                                                                              got anymore for my 55 ga tank. Or something eles. And if i got the
                                                                                                                                                                                              wright Max-Jet. Where should I put them in my 55 ga tank. Thank you for
                                                                                                                                                                                              helping me again. Charlene muffin4494@...







                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11524 From: Dawana B Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Messed up substrate?
                                                                                                                                                                                              You're getting a lot of mixed messages. 
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              If you haven't opened any of the bags yet (flourite or EC), don't. 
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              WHY are you choosing the Flourite or EC?  Just because the LFS suggested it? Bad answer.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Are you planning on heavily planted tanks?  Moderately planted tanks?  How is your lighting for this new tank?  Are you planning on adding CO2?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Dark substrate does look great and the fish do appreciate it, however, you need to examine your reasons for why you are doing what.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              If I were you and I were planning a planted tank, I would choose one or the other.  I think doing both Flourite AND Eco-complete is a waste of dollars, unless you have money to burn.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Write back with more info on your reasoning for the choice you are trying to make. 
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Smiles,
                                                                                                                                                                                              Dawana
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: Eric Miner
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 6:09 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Messed up substrate?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello Everybody,

                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm inching ever closer to starting my first tank. My favorite LFS
                                                                                                                                                                                              suggested I use 100% Flourite as they do in the store tanks. Well, I
                                                                                                                                                                                              want a more black substrate so I thought I'd add some darker gravel
                                                                                                                                                                                              over the Flourite, Right now I have 45 lbs. of Flourite in my 46 gl.
                                                                                                                                                                                              bowfront. Another LFS talked me into getting a bag of Eco-Complete byt
                                                                                                                                                                                              Carib Sea (http://www.carib-sea.com/Carib1.htm  at bottom of page) and
                                                                                                                                                                                              mix it into the flourite saying that 100% Flourite is a waste.

                                                                                                                                                                                              OK, well and good I guess. But, I don't plan on adding water to the
                                                                                                                                                                                              tank until next week and Eco-Complete has live bacteria so I have to
                                                                                                                                                                                              add it after the water. But, I'd like to get my top most substrate in
                                                                                                                                                                                              place earlier.

                                                                                                                                                                                              So, has anyone used Eco-Complete? Can I add it now or should I wait
                                                                                                                                                                                              til the last minute? Is it useful for it to be under the top most
                                                                                                                                                                                              layer of substrate? Any advice?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks in advance...from a confused newbie ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                              Eric




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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11525 From: Dawana B Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                              What are you feeding the otos?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Maybe they are looking for dinner.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              I feed mine cooked yellow squash once a week.  They nibble on shrimp pellets I feed my cories.  Occassionally, I'll clip in some dried seaweed and they'll cruise that.  They still clean up the algae on the plants, but due to them, there is little of that.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              I have a moderately planted 29 gallon community tank (mostly tetras) and 4 otos.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              -Dawana
                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:52 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] weird oto/angel behavior

                                                                                                                                                                                              oh my!! what do you suggest i do? give the otos back the lfs?

                                                                                                                                                                                              --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > i have only seen that with chinese algae eaters who
                                                                                                                                                                                              > are sucking on the slime coat of the fish...doing harm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > not cleaningh
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > this morning i noticed 2 of my otos hanging off my
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > angel the way they do on the tank walls. the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > angel got annoyed and swam away quickly and the otos
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > fell off. as soon as the angel went near the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > otos they jumped back onto the angel and did the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > same thing.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > has anyone ever seen this behavior before? do you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > think something is wrong with either of the 2?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > do you think the otos were 'cleaning' the angel?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > both are otherwise acting normally, eating
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > normally, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
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                                                                                                                                                                                              I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11526 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: feeder fish and platies( Rosey Reds)
                                                                                                                                                                                              Swordtails and platys can stand a wide range of temperatures, depending on
                                                                                                                                                                                              the species. They can go down into the 50's and up into the upper 80's.
                                                                                                                                                                                              There are some that prefer the higher temperatures, and some on the low end,
                                                                                                                                                                                              including those we normally keep in aquaria. I've had green swordtails as
                                                                                                                                                                                              low as 50^o F. in an outdoor pond before harvesting them (pulling them out
                                                                                                                                                                                              and placing them in a tank).

                                                                                                                                                                                              Mollies are definitely warm water lovers. While they can, at least some,
                                                                                                                                                                                              stand water down to 64^o F. they are better kept in the upper 70's and low
                                                                                                                                                                                              80's, especially the fancy mollies and the black mollies.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Guppies, well, they can stand low temperatures into the lower 60's and
                                                                                                                                                                                              warmer temperatures up to about 90^o F. as well. Again, the fancier guppies
                                                                                                                                                                                              need warmer temperatures for sure, probably do best between 75-80^o F.

                                                                                                                                                                                              The rosey reds, a variation of the fathead minnow (_Pimephales promelas_)
                                                                                                                                                                                              will withstand temperatures from 32-73^o F.

                                                                                                                                                                                              When determining a temperature range for your aquarium, you should know the
                                                                                                                                                                                              species of the fish, look it up from several sources, because not all
                                                                                                                                                                                              sources agree, then pick a temperature range that will suit all the fishes
                                                                                                                                                                                              you wish to keep. Also, keep in mind that the fancy varieties that have been
                                                                                                                                                                                              developed, usually do better in a smaller temperature range than the wild
                                                                                                                                                                                              forms, that are usually shown and quoted for a temperature range. Also, fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              that are kept in the lower end of their temperature range, not necessarily
                                                                                                                                                                                              the lowest temperature, will generally live longer and be healthier than
                                                                                                                                                                                              those that are kept at warmer temperatures. This is from anecdotal evidence
                                                                                                                                                                                              and personal observation. I've not seen any study to verify or deny this.

                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of FortWayneFish@...
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 3:12 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] feeder fish and platies( Rosey Reds)



                                                                                                                                                                                              I knew Mollies and Guppies and other livebearers like warmer temps. But the
                                                                                                                                                                                              swordtails and Platties come from the mountain regions and prefer colder
                                                                                                                                                                                              waters. I just didn't know How cold, was acceptable.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I have seen Rosey reds in 50*F water at a few LFS. So I know they can be
                                                                                                                                                                                              kept that low. Colder water means more Oxygen, lower matabolizm which in
                                                                                                                                                                                              turn means less waste..

                                                                                                                                                                                              I have a 20 gallon tub with a bunch of 1/2 inch Pvc cut at 3 inch lengths
                                                                                                                                                                                              scattered all over the bottom of my Rosey Red Tub. Its powered by a HydroV
                                                                                                                                                                                              sponge and an airstone, no heater. Light source Over head Flourescents at
                                                                                                                                                                                              about 10 feet away.. We try to keep between 2-4 dozen in the tub at all
                                                                                                                                                                                              times. We currently have about 30 baby fish in a seperate 10 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              that we have netted from the tub. they are not that hard to spawn. Just
                                                                                                                                                                                              have to provide them with adequate conditions..
                                                                                                                                                                                              Like most fish ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                              Its nice to have an assortment of Fish keepers on a board like this, as long
                                                                                                                                                                                              as everyone gets a long and doesn't PREACH there opinion, we all can learn a
                                                                                                                                                                                              thing or two..

                                                                                                                                                                                              rob
                                                                                                                                                                                              Indiana

                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11527 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: tank weight
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                              I happen to be a Building Inspector. Your home was designed with a
                                                                                                                                                                                              specific loads in mind. There are two criteria, live load and dead load.
                                                                                                                                                                                              At 1260 pounds in eight square feet, that would calculate out to
                                                                                                                                                                                              157.5pounds per square foot. Now remember I am inspector not a Structural
                                                                                                                                                                                              Engineer :-) Sooooooo..... now that you know the dead load that exists
                                                                                                                                                                                              check either with a structural Engineer or if you get real lucky your local
                                                                                                                                                                                              building department. . Just tell them you are adding a dead load of 1260
                                                                                                                                                                                              pounds (157.5 pounds per square foot over eight square feet) to the second
                                                                                                                                                                                              floor of your home . They will determine the type of structure & look it
                                                                                                                                                                                              up the design load in a table. If you had original building plans it would
                                                                                                                                                                                              be invaluable sine the engineer could easily calculate the loads. HTH
                                                                                                                                                                                              red-eye




                                                                                                                                                                                              At 06:40 PM 5/11/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >It's the newby again. The tank that I am looking at buying is a 150
                                                                                                                                                                                              >gallon show tank with the dimensions of 48"long x 24"deep x 30" high.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >I am guessing that the tank itself weighs about 150 pounds. The water
                                                                                                                                                                                              >is going to weigh in at @ 1260 pounds. The gravel approx 150 pounds
                                                                                                                                                                                              >and the ornamental rocks will add an additional 25 pounds. I am not
                                                                                                                                                                                              >sure on the weight of the stand, but I guess it will be about the same
                                                                                                                                                                                              >as the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >My question is this. Our new house is a split level. I would really
                                                                                                                                                                                              >like the aquarium to be upstairs near the dining room and the living
                                                                                                                                                                                              >room. I know that I must make sure the joists go perpendicular to the
                                                                                                                                                                                              >length of the tank. with the downstairs being finished, how is one
                                                                                                                                                                                              >suppose to find out? Is there any other way I can make sure that my
                                                                                                                                                                                              >floor is strong enough for my tank? The house was built in 1987, so it
                                                                                                                                                                                              >is 18 years old.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >Thanks again,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                              >River Falls, WI
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              >.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                              >the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                              >subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                              >in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11528 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Messed up substrate?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Substrate seems to be largeley a matter of personal preference. My
                                                                                                                                                                                              favorite is a layered substrated. Since our city water is pretty
                                                                                                                                                                                              alkaline I use well-rinsed peat, vermiculite and laterite mixed with a
                                                                                                                                                                                              little sand and gravel on the bottom and then use coarse sand, aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                              gravel on top of that for my plants. The laterite provides the iron,
                                                                                                                                                                                              the peat provides the acidity, and it works out very well, to the point
                                                                                                                                                                                              that I have to frequently thin out the plants. The dwarf mondo grass
                                                                                                                                                                                              and hair grass have pretty much carpeted the entire tank bottoms at
                                                                                                                                                                                              this time, looking almost like lawn, and giving my itty bitty fish a
                                                                                                                                                                                              great place to hide from the larger ones. It's a nice look.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11529 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Question about Ick
                                                                                                                                                                                              "somewhere in North West TN"
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                  How much salt is a very subjective question.  One person says a tablespoon per gallon, another a teaspoon per gallon, I use a tablespoon per 10 gallons myself because my fish are mostly tetras and catfish and salt is not so good for them.  The heat and clean water are the most important parts.  In my opinion, a tropical tank should never get below 76°F, but I keep my tanks at 80°. 
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                  When I treated for ich, I just increased it up to 83° and added 3 tablespoons of salt for my 29 gallon tank.  None of the infected fish died of the ich.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Look at the ich page at www.billismad.tripod.com
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                              How much salt do you use when treating the tank?  And also, I see you
                                                                                                                                                                                              are from Tennesse, what part if you don't mind my asking?  The reason
                                                                                                                                                                                              I ask is because I live in Bristol.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11530 From: hnorton1cogeco.ca Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Angels/Heather Norton
                                                                                                                                                                                              thanks for your help and all three are swimming together now but my veil died shortly after a sent my message two day,s ago I have no fighting going on now or tail and fin biting though my silver angels stays out of their turf so to speak .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Heather Norton
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11531 From: wantvws Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: New tank for a newbie
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi...I recently aquired a 210 gallon aquarium from my late brother,
                                                                                                                                                                                              and we are in the process of trying to learn how to set it up for
                                                                                                                                                                                              saltwater (fish only, to begin with). It has been in a storage shed
                                                                                                                                                                                              for 5-6 years, and obviously needs cleaning, for one. There are 2 35
                                                                                                                                                                                              gallon trash cans of live (or formerly live) rock, and I'm wondering
                                                                                                                                                                                              if this is now just decoration, or is there a way to make this "live"
                                                                                                                                                                                              again. My local pet store says that it is not usable for anything
                                                                                                                                                                                              other than decor at this point. I'm assuming that I will have to buy
                                                                                                                                                                                              more, but I hope I don't have to replace all of it.
                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm new to the group, and the aquarium world in general, so any help
                                                                                                                                                                                              help is greatly appreciated! I have about a bazillion questions,
                                                                                                                                                                                              butI'll only post a few at a time...
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                              Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11532 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New tank for a newbie
                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/14/2005 2:32:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, rml1963@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                              There are 2 35
                                                                                                                                                                                              gallon trash cans of live (or formerly live) rock, and I'm wondering
                                                                                                                                                                                              if this is now just decoration, or is there a way to make this "live"
                                                                                                                                                                                              again. My local pet store says that it is not usable for anything
                                                                                                                                                                                              other than decor at this point. I'm assuming that I will have to buy
                                                                                                                                                                                              more, but I hope I don't have to replace all of it.
                                                                                                                                                                                              It is perfectly useful as base rock and will eventually perform as a biological filter in your tank but it will take a while for bacteria to cover it and make it live to that degree. No creatures or corals will be alive on it right now but they will colonize it if you get good live rock in your tank to go along with it.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                              125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                              90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                              80 gallon south american cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                              55 gallon african cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                              50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11533 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                              yeah i guess that seems to be the general concensus - to feed them more veggies. i had stopped doing that because i wanted to make sure they ate the algae and didn't get used to only eating veggies. but since they seem to be looking for more food i guess the algae isn't enough to keep them happy. i guess i'll have to put some zucchini in the tank every so often.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Dawana B <dawanalea@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              What are you feeding the otos?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Maybe they are looking for dinner.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              I feed mine cooked yellow squash once a week.  They nibble on shrimp pellets I feed my cories.  Occassionally, I'll clip in some dried seaweed and they'll cruise that.  They still clean up the algae on the plants, but due to them, there is little of that.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              I have a moderately planted 29 gallon community tank (mostly tetras) and 4 otos.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              -Dawana
                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:52 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] weird oto/angel behavior

                                                                                                                                                                                              oh my!! what do you suggest i do? give the otos back the lfs?

                                                                                                                                                                                              --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > i have only seen that with chinese algae eaters who
                                                                                                                                                                                              > are sucking on the slime coat of the fish...doing harm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > not cleaningh
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > this morning i noticed 2 of my otos hanging off my
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > angel the way they do on the tank walls. the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > angel got annoyed and swam away quickly and the otos
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > fell off. as soon as the angel went near the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > otos they jumped back onto the angel and did the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > same thing.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > has anyone ever seen this behavior before? do you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > think something is wrong with either of the 2?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > do you think the otos were 'cleaning' the angel?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > both are otherwise acting normally, eating
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > normally, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >


                                                                                                                                                                                              I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Valeen Robertson Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                              I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11534 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                              replace them with more otos? wouldn't that just cause the same problem?

                                                                                                                                                                                              paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              replace them
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > that's what i thought. now the question is, what do
                                                                                                                                                                                              > i do?

                                                                                                                                                                                              > when i got home tonight angel had some whitish stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                              > on him that disappeared after awhile. it looked like
                                                                                                                                                                                              > a fungus. i treated with maracide tablet that i'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > supposed to repeat for 5 days straight.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > looks like an o0tto
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > i've had the otos for about 4 mos approximately.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > i'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > pretty sure that they're otos and not chinese
                                                                                                                                                                                              > algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > eaters from the photos i saw online. i attached
                                                                                                                                                                                              > some
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > photos of the otos in my tank, let me know what
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > think.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > 
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > their tummies usually look nice & round so i'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > assuming they are getting enough to eat. i know
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > there's never any algae on the tank walls, esp.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > compared to my other tanks w/o otos where the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > has to be cleaned off occasionally.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > how long have you had them? if you are not 1000%
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > sure
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > that they are ottos, and not baby chinese i would
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > look
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > up some pics of both.   ottos require a very high
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > amount of food and usually die when there is a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > lack
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > of algae.  maybe they are adapting to a low algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > level?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > oh my!! what do you suggest i do? give the otos
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > back
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > the lfs?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > i have only seen that with chinese algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > eaters
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > who
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > are sucking on the slime coat of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > fish...doing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > harm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > not cleaningh
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > --- Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                              > <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > this morning i noticed 2 of my otos hanging
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > off
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > my
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > angel the way they do on the tank walls. the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > angel got annoyed and swam away quickly and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > otos
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > fell off. as soon as the angel went near the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > otos they jumped back onto the angel and did
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > same thing.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > has anyone ever seen this behavior before?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > do
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > think something is wrong with either of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > 2?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > do you think the otos were 'cleaning' the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > angel?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > both are otherwise acting normally, eating
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > normally, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                              > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                                                                                              > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                              > matter
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                                                                                                                                                                                              > Valeen Robertson Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >



                                                                                                                                                                                                         
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                                                                                              Valeen Robertson Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                              I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11535 From: A.K. Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Hello & ?
                                                                                                                                                                                              First of all, hello! I'm a new member who has had a freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                              tropical set up in the past, but has been out of fishkeeping for about
                                                                                                                                                                                              8 years now.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I have recently again set up a 29 gal. tropical freshwater community
                                                                                                                                                                                              tank and had a question for all you experts out there about aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                              salt. Is it necessary to add at all *disease preventative* and if so,
                                                                                                                                                                                              how much should you add and how often?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks for any answers in advance and check out a few pics I've
                                                                                                                                                                                              uploaded to the photos section *under stgen75's fish album*. I am
                                                                                                                                                                                              looking forward to browsing the archives when I have the time.

                                                                                                                                                                                              A.K.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11536 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                              Emily,

                                                                                                                                                                                              If a reagent is out of date, don't use it. It will act, as you say, "weird".
                                                                                                                                                                                              Liquid reagents are only good for about 6 month from the date of
                                                                                                                                                                                              manufacture, so it pays to look at the expiration date prior to purchase. If
                                                                                                                                                                                              a liquid reagent does not have a date on it, avoid it.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Powdered reagents should also show an expiration date on them as well.
                                                                                                                                                                                              However, they should last longer than the liquid reagents. Again, if it has
                                                                                                                                                                                              no expiration date on it, don't buy it.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I've always considered the test strips fine for measuring whatever in a
                                                                                                                                                                                              pinch--when you haven't got a lot of time, or to just take a quick reading
                                                                                                                                                                                              to see if you should follow up with further testing. However, according to
                                                                                                                                                                                              my brother-in-law, the chemist, they use them quite frequently in the lab,
                                                                                                                                                                                              so they are probably a pretty good measure. Just keep them dry and store
                                                                                                                                                                                              away from light, and you should be OK. I don't know about the 5 in 1 strips
                                                                                                                                                                                              you are talking about, but you may be better off using a separate strip for
                                                                                                                                                                                              each kind of test. I'll have to remember to ask b-i-l, the chemist, next
                                                                                                                                                                                              time I see him.

                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//



                                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 3:07 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??


                                                                                                                                                                                              I have a liquid test kit that is past date by a couple months. It was giving
                                                                                                                                                                                              me weird ammonia readings, but I could try it. Should I actually take out
                                                                                                                                                                                              the wood? I like how it looks in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                              Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              Your hardness no doubt is due to magnesium carbonates; the crushed
                                                                                                                                                                                              shells and coral will help buffer the water by increasing the
                                                                                                                                                                                              alkalinity, but in itself won't raise the pH very much. You'll
                                                                                                                                                                                              probably need to add some baking soda. For your pH to be at its
                                                                                                                                                                                              lowest test reading (whatever that is) is very unusual, unless
                                                                                                                                                                                              you've
                                                                                                                                                                                              already added the driftwood. Generally, tap water is hardly ever
                                                                                                                                                                                              distributed to the consumer by a water company, in an acid pH range.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Would like to make one recommendation, and that is to consider
                                                                                                                                                                                              getting liquid test kits, singularly or as one master kit, as these
                                                                                                                                                                                              kits are much more accurate and reliable (many strip kits have an
                                                                                                                                                                                              expiration date). Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I got a 5 in one test strip that measures pH, alkalinity,
                                                                                                                                                                                              hardness,
                                                                                                                                                                                              nitrite and nitrate. Hardness was around 120ppm. Anyway, well it was

                                                                                                                                                                                              a little harder than the middle reading. the pH pad and alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                              were both at the lowest possible value on the strip. I did end up
                                                                                                                                                                                              adding some crushed shells and coral so we'll see what happens.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Emily, Since your test strip measured 0, I have to assume that
                                                                                                                                                                                              these
                                                                                                                                                                                              > strips are for measuring alkalinity -- CACO3 (correct me if I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrong), and are not measuring pH, since you can't get a 0 reading
                                                                                                                                                                                              > with a pH test but instead get a reading (based on comparative
                                                                                                                                                                                              color
                                                                                                                                                                                              > chart of from yellow - 6.0, to dark blue - 7.8). Alkalinity test
                                                                                                                                                                                              > strips do not measure Total Alkalinity (as including magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > carbonate) in the test, but only calcium carbonate. If you ARE
                                                                                                                                                                                              SURE
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you have hard water you can get a 0 reading for Alkalinity with
                                                                                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > test strips -- in this case, for calcium carbonates, and still
                                                                                                                                                                                              have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > magnesium carbonates which makes water hard. I also have to assume

                                                                                                                                                                                              > you've taken a hardness test, and again correct me if I'm wrong.
                                                                                                                                                                                              If
                                                                                                                                                                                              > in fact your water is hard, as you say, its no doubt due to
                                                                                                                                                                                              magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > carbonates, in which case you have your buffering capacity and DO
                                                                                                                                                                                              NOT
                                                                                                                                                                                              > need to add limestone. Your water should remain fairly stable,
                                                                                                                                                                                              with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the addition of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) as needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > that's what my test strip said :\
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Emily, You're the one who seems to think that your alkalinity is

                                                                                                                                                                                              0,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > as per your previous post # 11042 (May 12, 12:05PM) Why would
                                                                                                                                                                                              you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > think your alkalinity is 0 if you're now saying that your water
                                                                                                                                                                                              is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > already hard? Or am I missing something? If your water is hard
                                                                                                                                                                                              it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > must have calcium or magnesium carbonates, -- alkalinity --
                                                                                                                                                                                              > buffering
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > capacity. Therefore, the water should remain fairly stable with
                                                                                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > use of only sodium bicarbonate, as additional calcite
                                                                                                                                                                                              (limestone)
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > should not be needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > The stupid piece of wood costed $30 >:(
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > I''ll try the limestone. But my water is already hard, so why
                                                                                                                                                                                              > would
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > alkalinity be 0?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Emily, Rather than using sodium bicarbonate, first use calcium

                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > carbonate (limestone) to increase the buffering capacity of
                                                                                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > water,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > if you don't think the fish will mind hard water too much -- I

                                                                                                                                                                                              > > don't
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > know what kinds of fish you have. Generally, most fish can
                                                                                                                                                                                              take
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > moderately hard water. With using baking soda first, the pH is

                                                                                                                                                                                              > > likely
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > to bounce as there's no buffering capacity yet. I presume you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > want
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > approach the parameters of your tap water to make water
                                                                                                                                                                                              changing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > less
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > stressful. If the driftwood is small enough to fit in a large
                                                                                                                                                                                              > pot,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > might try boiling it, otherwise soak it for a week or so in a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > large
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > bucket with added baking soda, then rinse well. Can't say how
                                                                                                                                                                                              > much
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > your wood might lower the pH without knowing its size and
                                                                                                                                                                                              whether
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > its
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > African or Malasian driftwood. Its not bad in the sense that
                                                                                                                                                                                              many
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > people use it, but it does have the tendency to lower the pH.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > \ --
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > I have a large piece of wood in my new tank. Is this bad and

                                                                                                                                                                                              > will
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > lower the pH too much? I'm planning a trip to the aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                              store
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > later
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > to get some limestone or coral to raise alkalinity. Maybe I'll

                                                                                                                                                                                              > just
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > add
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > some baking soda to hold out until then. How much would I add
                                                                                                                                                                                              to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > 55
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > gal with a pH of 6.4 and 0 alkalinity?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11537 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: was Hello & ?(Salt Questions )
                                                                                                                                                                                              Remember one persons opinion is just that an opinion.We all have one.  What works for me might not work for you.

                                                                                                                                                                                              The KEY WORD here is necessary ...answer no.

                                                                                                                                                                                              salt does have its place in the hobby and in the fish tank but it is NOT necessary..



                                                                                                                                                                                              rob
                                                                                                                                                                                              Indiana

                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/14/2005 8:13:45 PM US Eastern Standard Time, inthestacks2@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                                              about aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                              salt.  Is it necessary to add at all *disease preventative* and if so,
                                                                                                                                                                                              how much should you add and how often?


                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11538 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Hello & ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                  My answer is "mostly no" and "it depends".  Natural freshwater has some salt in it, but not much.  If you were using something like RO water or pure water, you would need to add some epson salt and plain salt in very small amounts to restore the removed stuff that is needed for things of some sort.  I don't use purified water, so I don't know much about all that stuff.  If you are using regular tap water from either the city or a well, no salt is needed.  You will need a water conditioner like stress coat, prime, or chlorout.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  On the other hand, you may wish to use salt.  I can't say that is is either helpful or hurtful because I don't know, but a lot of people use 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons for many fish.  For some livebearers like mollies, halfbeaks, and some guppies, mosquito fish, swordtails, etc., that amount of salt is a good idea.  Mollies and halfbeaks are brackish fish, but some mollies can life in fw.  So again, it depends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  If you aren't confused enough, I'm sure some other people will help complicate it soon. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                              First of all, hello!  I'm a new member who has had a freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                              tropical set up in the past, but has been out of fishkeeping for about
                                                                                                                                                                                              8 years now. 

                                                                                                                                                                                              I have recently again set up a 29 gal. tropical freshwater community
                                                                                                                                                                                              tank and had a question for all you experts out there about aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                              salt.  Is it necessary to add at all *disease preventative* and if so,
                                                                                                                                                                                              how much should you add and how often?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks for any answers in advance and check out a few pics I've
                                                                                                                                                                                              uploaded to the photos section *under stgen75's fish album*.  I am
                                                                                                                                                                                              looking forward to browsing the archives when I have the time.

                                                                                                                                                                                              A.K.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11539 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: infusium not growing
                                                                                                                                                                                              Andreas,

                                                                                                                                                                                              You don't say how long it has been. It usually takes 3-4 days for the
                                                                                                                                                                                              culture to become cloudy. Are you keeping it in a place where it can get
                                                                                                                                                                                              good sunlight, or under a good lamp?

                                                                                                                                                                                              The water amount you are using is also a factor. Most people use a quart jar
                                                                                                                                                                                              and fill it about half way, then add their favorite plant matter to get the
                                                                                                                                                                                              culture started. Takes a lot fewer single celled organisms to cloud that
                                                                                                                                                                                              amount of water--but plenty for your fry for a few days.

                                                                                                                                                                                              A sponge filter is a good source of infusoria for your fry. If you have one
                                                                                                                                                                                              going in your fry tank, so much the better. If not, and you have one in
                                                                                                                                                                                              another tank, move it over after the fry hatch. This should give them a
                                                                                                                                                                                              goodly amount to eat.

                                                                                                                                                                                              FWIW, I've usually used lettuce. I've heard of others using plant material,
                                                                                                                                                                                              as you have, lawn clippings, straw, hay, bananas, and potatoes.

                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 5:25 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; UniQuaria@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] infusium not growing

                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello all

                                                                                                                                                                                              I have some fish eggs that are supposed to hatch quite soon. It
                                                                                                                                                                                              was recommended to me that I start a batch of infusium (sp?) going.
                                                                                                                                                                                              I filled a 5 gallon jug (like the ones used in water coolers) with 3
                                                                                                                                                                                              gallons of water and added some plant detritus from my plant tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Oddly enough the plants seem to be goriwng a little on the jug :).
                                                                                                                                                                                              But anyway I dont see any mass of micorganisms. The water is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              cloudy at all. Also one of the snails made it in there. Is ther
                                                                                                                                                                                              anything I am doing wrong?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11540 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                              Steve, Couldn't help but notice your repetitive (but probably
                                                                                                                                                                                              unintentionally so) reply. You apparently must have overlooked my
                                                                                                                                                                                              reply (post #10519) from this morning at 7:14AM giving Emily this
                                                                                                                                                                                              very same advice -- to replace her reagent if its giving her weird
                                                                                                                                                                                              readings. I would like to add that in my experience, I've found test
                                                                                                                                                                                              strips not to be reliable. These wide-range (pH 4.5 to 9.0) strips
                                                                                                                                                                                              used in the aquarium trade, such as those made by AquaCheck have been
                                                                                                                                                                                              found to be not nearly as accurate as liquid test kits. Many of my
                                                                                                                                                                                              customers at Waterford Gardens (ex-Tricker's Water Gardens) have had
                                                                                                                                                                                              numerous problems resulting from this circumstance after which I've
                                                                                                                                                                                              found their pH to be completely different using liquid kits. As
                                                                                                                                                                                              such, we've decided to discontinue the sale of them and have pulled
                                                                                                                                                                                              the remainder of these dry kits off the shelf. Perhaps there are
                                                                                                                                                                                              better and more accurate dry kits (w/litmus, etc.)used in the lab
                                                                                                                                                                                              environment, such as what your brother-in-law might use in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              chemistry field, but in good conscience I can't recommend the dry
                                                                                                                                                                                              kits put out for the aquarium trade. Too many of my customers have
                                                                                                                                                                                              lost expensive Koi when relying on those kits thinking their fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              were safe, when in actuality their pH was found to be above 9.0,
                                                                                                                                                                                              which these fish cannot tolerate. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Emily,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > If a reagent is out of date, don't use it. It will act, as you
                                                                                                                                                                                              say, "weird".
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Liquid reagents are only good for about 6 month from the date of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > manufacture, so it pays to look at the expiration date prior to
                                                                                                                                                                                              purchase. If
                                                                                                                                                                                              > a liquid reagent does not have a date on it, avoid it.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Powdered reagents should also show an expiration date on them as
                                                                                                                                                                                              well.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > However, they should last longer than the liquid reagents. Again,
                                                                                                                                                                                              if it has
                                                                                                                                                                                              > no expiration date on it, don't buy it.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I've always considered the test strips fine for measuring whatever
                                                                                                                                                                                              in a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > pinch--when you haven't got a lot of time, or to just take a quick
                                                                                                                                                                                              reading
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to see if you should follow up with further testing. However,
                                                                                                                                                                                              according to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > my brother-in-law, the chemist, they use them quite frequently in
                                                                                                                                                                                              the lab,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > so they are probably a pretty good measure. Just keep them dry and
                                                                                                                                                                                              store
                                                                                                                                                                                              > away from light, and you should be OK. I don't know about the 5 in
                                                                                                                                                                                              1 strips
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you are talking about, but you may be better off using a separate
                                                                                                                                                                                              strip for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > each kind of test. I'll have to remember to ask b-i-l, the chemist,
                                                                                                                                                                                              next
                                                                                                                                                                                              > time I see him.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 3:07 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I have a liquid test kit that is past date by a couple months. It
                                                                                                                                                                                              was giving
                                                                                                                                                                                              > me weird ammonia readings, but I could try it. Should I actually
                                                                                                                                                                                              take out
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the wood? I like how it looks in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Your hardness no doubt is due to magnesium carbonates; the
                                                                                                                                                                                              crushed
                                                                                                                                                                                              > shells and coral will help buffer the water by increasing the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > alkalinity, but in itself won't raise the pH very much.
                                                                                                                                                                                              You'll
                                                                                                                                                                                              > probably need to add some baking soda. For your pH to be at
                                                                                                                                                                                              its
                                                                                                                                                                                              > lowest test reading (whatever that is) is very unusual, unless
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you've
                                                                                                                                                                                              > already added the driftwood. Generally, tap water is hardly
                                                                                                                                                                                              ever
                                                                                                                                                                                              > distributed to the consumer by a water company, in an acid pH
                                                                                                                                                                                              range.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Would like to make one recommendation, and that is to
                                                                                                                                                                                              consider
                                                                                                                                                                                              > getting liquid test kits, singularly or as one master kit, as
                                                                                                                                                                                              these
                                                                                                                                                                                              > kits are much more accurate and reliable (many strip kits
                                                                                                                                                                                              have an
                                                                                                                                                                                              > expiration date). Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I got a 5 in one test strip that measures pH, alkalinity,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > hardness,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > nitrite and nitrate. Hardness was around 120ppm. Anyway, well
                                                                                                                                                                                              it was
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > a little harder than the middle reading. the pH pad and
                                                                                                                                                                                              alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                              > were both at the lowest possible value on the strip. I did
                                                                                                                                                                                              end up
                                                                                                                                                                                              > adding some crushed shells and coral so we'll see what
                                                                                                                                                                                              happens.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Emily, Since your test strip measured 0, I have to assume
                                                                                                                                                                                              that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > these
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > strips are for measuring alkalinity -- CACO3 (correct me if
                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > wrong), and are not measuring pH, since you can't get a 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              reading
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > with a pH test but instead get a reading (based on
                                                                                                                                                                                              comparative
                                                                                                                                                                                              > color
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > chart of from yellow - 6.0, to dark blue - 7.8). Alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                              test
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > strips do not measure Total Alkalinity (as including
                                                                                                                                                                                              magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > carbonate) in the test, but only calcium carbonate. If you
                                                                                                                                                                                              ARE
                                                                                                                                                                                              > SURE
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > you have hard water you can get a 0 reading for Alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                              with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > test strips -- in this case, for calcium carbonates, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              still
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > magnesium carbonates which makes water hard. I also have to
                                                                                                                                                                                              assume
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > you've taken a hardness test, and again correct me if I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              wrong.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > If
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > in fact your water is hard, as you say, its no doubt due to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > carbonates, in which case you have your buffering capacity
                                                                                                                                                                                              and DO
                                                                                                                                                                                              > NOT
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > need to add limestone. Your water should remain fairly
                                                                                                                                                                                              stable,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the addition of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) as needed.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > that's what my test strip said :\
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Emily, You're the one who seems to think that your
                                                                                                                                                                                              alkalinity is
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > 0,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > as per your previous post # 11042 (May 12, 12:05PM) Why
                                                                                                                                                                                              would
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > think your alkalinity is 0 if you're now saying that your
                                                                                                                                                                                              water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > already hard? Or am I missing something? If your water is
                                                                                                                                                                                              hard
                                                                                                                                                                                              > it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > must have calcium or magnesium carbonates, -- alkalinity -
                                                                                                                                                                                              -
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > buffering
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > capacity. Therefore, the water should remain fairly
                                                                                                                                                                                              stable with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > use of only sodium bicarbonate, as additional calcite
                                                                                                                                                                                              > (limestone)
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > should not be needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > The stupid piece of wood costed $30 >:(
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > I''ll try the limestone. But my water is already hard,
                                                                                                                                                                                              so why
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > would
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > alkalinity be 0?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Emily, Rather than using sodium bicarbonate, first use
                                                                                                                                                                                              calcium
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > carbonate (limestone) to increase the buffering
                                                                                                                                                                                              capacity of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > water,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > if you don't think the fish will mind hard water too
                                                                                                                                                                                              much -- I
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > don't
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > know what kinds of fish you have. Generally, most fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              can
                                                                                                                                                                                              > take
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > moderately hard water. With using baking soda first,
                                                                                                                                                                                              the pH is
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > likely
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > to bounce as there's no buffering capacity yet. I
                                                                                                                                                                                              presume you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > want
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > approach the parameters of your tap water to make water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > changing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > less
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > stressful. If the driftwood is small enough to fit in a
                                                                                                                                                                                              large
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > pot,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > might try boiling it, otherwise soak it for a week or
                                                                                                                                                                                              so in a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > large
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > bucket with added baking soda, then rinse well. Can't
                                                                                                                                                                                              say how
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > much
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > your wood might lower the pH without knowing its size
                                                                                                                                                                                              and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > whether
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > its
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > African or Malasian driftwood. Its not bad in the sense
                                                                                                                                                                                              that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > many
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > people use it, but it does have the tendency to lower
                                                                                                                                                                                              the pH.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > \ --
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > I have a large piece of wood in my new tank. Is this
                                                                                                                                                                                              bad and
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > will
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > lower the pH too much? I'm planning a trip to the
                                                                                                                                                                                              aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > store
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > later
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > to get some limestone or coral to raise alkalinity.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Maybe I'll
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > just
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > add
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > some baking soda to hold out until then. How much would
                                                                                                                                                                                              I add
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > 55
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > gal with a pH of 6.4 and 0 alkalinity?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11541 From: wantvws Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New tank for a newbie
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks you so much...is there any kind of additive to help speed up
                                                                                                                                                                                              the bacteria growth or should I just supplement it with new rock and
                                                                                                                                                                                              sand?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11542 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New tank for a newbie
                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/14/2005 8:39:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, rml1963@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks you so much...is there any kind of additive to help speed up
                                                                                                                                                                                              the bacteria growth or should I just supplement it with new rock and
                                                                                                                                                                                              sand?
                                                                                                                                                                                              I would add live sand  and live rock and you could try bio spira I don't think it would speed up the colonization of the rocks to much but couldn't hurt.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                              125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                              90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                              80 gallon south american cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                              55 gallon african cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                              50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11543 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: infusium not growing
                                                                                                                                                                                              Steve, Good catch -- I didn't see the amount of water Andreas was
                                                                                                                                                                                              using to start an infusoria culture until I reread the post. With
                                                                                                                                                                                              using 3 gallons of water in a 5 gallon jug, it could take 3 weeks to
                                                                                                                                                                                              notice any appreciable amount of animaculae. As I've already pointed
                                                                                                                                                                                              out, the culture should be started about a week before its needed,
                                                                                                                                                                                              but then too, as you've mentioned using a quart jar. As added
                                                                                                                                                                                              insurance, additional cultures should be started every 3 or 4 days as
                                                                                                                                                                                              a back-up food source in case the original fails at some point.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Would like to point out that my results using the old recommendation
                                                                                                                                                                                              of crushed lettuce has usually resulted in a foul bacteria culture
                                                                                                                                                                                              rather than infusoria just when I need it most. I still find green
                                                                                                                                                                                              water to be fool proof, with snail waste being an excellent food
                                                                                                                                                                                              source for the culture of infusoria which has never failed for me.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Andreas,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > You don't say how long it has been. It usually takes 3-4 days for
                                                                                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > culture to become cloudy. Are you keeping it in a place where it
                                                                                                                                                                                              can get
                                                                                                                                                                                              > good sunlight, or under a good lamp?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > The water amount you are using is also a factor. Most people use a
                                                                                                                                                                                              quart jar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and fill it about half way, then add their favorite plant matter to
                                                                                                                                                                                              get the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > culture started. Takes a lot fewer single celled organisms to cloud
                                                                                                                                                                                              that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > amount of water--but plenty for your fry for a few days.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > A sponge filter is a good source of infusoria for your fry. If you
                                                                                                                                                                                              have one
                                                                                                                                                                                              > going in your fry tank, so much the better. If not, and you have
                                                                                                                                                                                              one in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > another tank, move it over after the fry hatch. This should give
                                                                                                                                                                                              them a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > goodly amount to eat.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > FWIW, I've usually used lettuce. I've heard of others using plant
                                                                                                                                                                                              material,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > as you have, lawn clippings, straw, hay, bananas, and potatoes.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 5:25 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; UniQuaria@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: [AquaticLife] infusium not growing
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hello all
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I have some fish eggs that are supposed to hatch quite soon.
                                                                                                                                                                                              It
                                                                                                                                                                                              > was recommended to me that I start a batch of infusium (sp?)
                                                                                                                                                                                              going.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I filled a 5 gallon jug (like the ones used in water coolers) with
                                                                                                                                                                                              3
                                                                                                                                                                                              > gallons of water and added some plant detritus from my plant tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Oddly enough the plants seem to be goriwng a little on the jug :).
                                                                                                                                                                                              > But anyway I dont see any mass of micorganisms. The water is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > cloudy at all. Also one of the snails made it in there. Is ther
                                                                                                                                                                                              > anything I am doing wrong?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11544 From: Tricia Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Question about whether I am seeing eggs or not
                                                                                                                                                                                              I have no idea what cory cat eggs or cherry barb eggs look like, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                              am considering cleaning my tank. It seems like this stuff appeared
                                                                                                                                                                                              over night. It is kind of a white stringy, with little
                                                                                                                                                                                              clumps (almost resembles a cotton ball when you pull it apart) if this
                                                                                                                                                                                              is eggs then I will leave the tank alone for now.
                                                                                                                                                                                              TIA
                                                                                                                                                                                              Tricia
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11545 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/14/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: FishTankPics · The place for Fish & Aquarium pictures!
                                                                                                                                                                                              I invite you to visit the place to Ask and Answer Questions about
                                                                                                                                                                                              Photographing your Aquatic Life and Aquariums, or how someone else
                                                                                                                                                                                              photographs theirs. This is the place for posting pictures of your
                                                                                                                                                                                              Aquarium and Aquatic Life.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11546 From: paul helms Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Hello & ?
                                                                                                                                                                                              nope
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- "A.K." <inthestacks2@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > First of all, hello! I'm a new member who has had a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                              > tropical set up in the past, but has been out of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fishkeeping for about
                                                                                                                                                                                              > 8 years now.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I have recently again set up a 29 gal. tropical
                                                                                                                                                                                              > freshwater community
                                                                                                                                                                                              > tank and had a question for all you experts out
                                                                                                                                                                                              > there about aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > salt. Is it necessary to add at all *disease
                                                                                                                                                                                              > preventative* and if so,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > how much should you add and how often?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks for any answers in advance and check out a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > few pics I've
                                                                                                                                                                                              > uploaded to the photos section *under stgen75's fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              > album*. I am
                                                                                                                                                                                              > looking forward to browsing the archives when I have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the time.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > A.K.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11547 From: paul helms Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                              no, that is not typical otto behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > replace them with more otos? wouldn't that just
                                                                                                                                                                                              > cause the same problem?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:replace them
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > that's what i thought. now the question is, what
                                                                                                                                                                                              > do
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > i do?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > when i got home tonight angel had some whitish
                                                                                                                                                                                              > stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > on him that disappeared after awhile. it looked
                                                                                                                                                                                              > like
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > a fungus. i treated with maracide tablet that i'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > supposed to repeat for 5 days straight.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > looks like an o0tto
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > i've had the otos for about 4 mos approximately.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > i'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > pretty sure that they're otos and not chinese
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > eaters from the photos i saw online. i attached
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > some
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > photos of the otos in my tank, let me know what
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > think.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > their tummies usually look nice & round so i'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > assuming they are getting enough to eat. i know
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > there's never any algae on the tank walls, esp.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > compared to my other tanks w/o otos where the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > has to be cleaned off occasionally.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > how long have you had them? if you are not 1000%
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > sure
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > that they are ottos, and not baby chinese i
                                                                                                                                                                                              > would
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > look
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > up some pics of both. ottos require a very
                                                                                                                                                                                              > high
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > amount of food and usually die when there is a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > lack
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > of algae. maybe they are adapting to a low
                                                                                                                                                                                              > algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > level?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > oh my!! what do you suggest i do? give the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > otos
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > back
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > the lfs?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > i have only seen that with chinese algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > eaters
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > who
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > are sucking on the slime coat of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > fish...doing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > harm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > not cleaningh
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > --- Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > this morning i noticed 2 of my otos
                                                                                                                                                                                              > hanging
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > off
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > my
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > angel the way they do on the tank walls.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > angel got annoyed and swam away quickly
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > otos
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > fell off. as soon as the angel went near
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > otos they jumped back onto the angel and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > did
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > same thing.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > has anyone ever seen this behavior before?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > do
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > think something is wrong with either of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > 2?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > do you think the otos were 'cleaning' the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > angel?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > both are otherwise acting normally, eating
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > normally, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11548 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Question about whether I am seeing eggs or not
                                                                                                                                                                                              Take a look at http://www.aqualandpetsplus.com/Catfish,%20Corydoras.htm and
                                                                                                                                                                                              scroll down for a ways, and you'll see several photos of cory eggs.

                                                                                                                                                                                              What you are describing sounds like a fungus.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I could not quickly find any pictures of cherry barb eggs on the internet,
                                                                                                                                                                                              but I am fairly sure they are probably out t there somewhere, at least in a
                                                                                                                                                                                              description form, if not pictures.

                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Tricia
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 1:49 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about whether I am seeing eggs or not

                                                                                                                                                                                              I have no idea what cory cat eggs or cherry barb eggs look like, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                              am considering cleaning my tank. It seems like this stuff appeared
                                                                                                                                                                                              over night. It is kind of a white stringy, with little
                                                                                                                                                                                              clumps (almost resembles a cotton ball when you pull it apart) if this
                                                                                                                                                                                              is eggs then I will leave the tank alone for now.
                                                                                                                                                                                              TIA
                                                                                                                                                                                              Tricia
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11549 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Question about whether I am seeing eggs or not
                                                                                                                                                                                              Go ahead and clean the tank I am 100% sure its not cory cat eggs, they would be all over the sides of the tank in groups of 2-5 pending and if i am not mistaken Barbs scatter there tiny eggs across the bottom of the tank so they probally wouln't be seen either. 

                                                                                                                                                                                              rob
                                                                                                                                                                                              indiana


                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/15/2005 12:49:20 AM US Eastern Standard Time, trycya@... writes:




                                                                                                                                                                                              I have no idea what cory cat eggs or cherry barb eggs look like, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                              am considering cleaning my tank. It seems like this stuff appeared
                                                                                                                                                                                              over night.  It is kind of a white stringy, with little
                                                                                                                                                                                              clumps (almost resembles a cotton ball when you pull it apart) if this
                                                                                                                                                                                              is eggs then I will leave the tank alone for now.
                                                                                                                                                                                              TIA
                                                                                                                                                                                              Tricia


                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11550 From: Eric Miner Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: How level is level enough?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello all,

                                                                                                                                                                                              I have 46 gal. Oceanic bowfront and one of their stands for it. I've
                                                                                                                                                                                              had to put wooden shims under the stand to get it level. But, not that
                                                                                                                                                                                              I've added some substrate I see that it's a bit out of level. It's
                                                                                                                                                                                              only slightly out of level according to the bubble level I'm using. I
                                                                                                                                                                                              think I need to add a few more shims so that the middel doesn't sage.

                                                                                                                                                                                              My concern, and it may be misplaced, is .... is the tank in any danger
                                                                                                                                                                                              of failing is it is not absolutely, perfrectly level?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Any opinions?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks in advance

                                                                                                                                                                                              Eric
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11551 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: How level is level enough?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Eric,

                                                                                                                                                                                              As you said you are using a bubble level it is out of level.
                                                                                                                                                                                              A lot of times people use the trim around the top of the tank as a leveling device and those trims are NEVER level.

                                                                                                                                                                                              You can do three things in my opinion to help level your tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. Leave it alone if it is not to far out.  the low side will have more pressure pressing against the side of the tank but if its close to level the pressure shouldn't be to great.

                                                                                                                                                                                              2. Buy some corkboard from a home improvement center    cut it to fit top of stand and then place tank down on to it.
                                                                                                                                                                                              The tank will settle down into the corkboard hopefully making the tank nice and level.

                                                                                                                                                                                              If the tank and stand are WAY out of level return the stand to store and ask for new one..  If the stand isn't pretty close to level the weight of the tank will be placed on the low side -weak side of the tank..

                                                                                                                                                                                              my 2cents

                                                                                                                                                                                              rob
                                                                                                                                                                                              Indiana
                                                                                                                                                                                              USA


                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/15/2005 9:27:29 AM US Eastern Standard Time, eminer1254@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello all,

                                                                                                                                                                                              I have 46 gal. Oceanic bowfront and one of their stands for it. I've
                                                                                                                                                                                              had to put wooden shims under the stand to get it level. But, not that
                                                                                                                                                                                              I've added some substrate I see that it's a bit out of level. It's
                                                                                                                                                                                              only slightly out of level according to the bubble level I'm using. I
                                                                                                                                                                                              think I need to add a few more shims so that the middel doesn't sage.

                                                                                                                                                                                              My concern, and it may be misplaced, is .... is the tank in any danger
                                                                                                                                                                                              of failing is it is not absolutely, perfrectly level?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Any opinions?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks in advance

                                                                                                                                                                                              Eric


                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11552 From: Charlene Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Please help me. I am trying to set up my tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Ok I have the sand, my 55 ga tank, my hearter and the thermometer,
                                                                                                                                                                                              And all so I have me Maxi-jet 2 1200 and 1 900. Now I would like to
                                                                                                                                                                                              know where should i put my Maxi-jet power head in my tank? Thank you
                                                                                                                                                                                              for helping me again. Charlene muffin4494@...
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11553 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Well, I would say try to increase feedings of algae disks and/or boiled vegetables first.  If that doesn't stop it, you should then decide if the ottos are harming the angels.  My ottos occasionally get on my pleco's back and try to get on the back of the paradise fish, but they never harm those fish because they never get a hold on them.  If harm is being done, something is different about them.  The good (or is it bad?) news is, the angels will eventually grow big enough that they can bite back.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11554 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: How level is level enough?
                                                                                                                                                                                                  If it looks level without a level, it is probably ok.  If the bubble is still partly in the center lines it is ok.  I just checked mine, and they look level, but they are not.  I can look at the water at the top of the tanks and see that it is higher in the front than in the back and on one side.  None of them have ever shifted at all, and there have been several 2.0 earthquakes, large trucks going by, and large people walking around that did not vibrate them off the tables.  My suggestion is, if it looks level enough, it is level enough.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                              Any opinions?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks in advance

                                                                                                                                                                                              Eric
                                                                                                                                                                                              Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11555 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Digest Number 775 Re: How level is level enough?
                                                                                                                                                                                              2. Buy some corkboard from a home improvement center    cut it to fit top of
                                                                                                                                                                                              stand and then place tank down on to it.
                                                                                                                                                                                              The tank will settle down into the corkboard hopefully making the tank nice
                                                                                                                                                                                              and level.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Or, I have used sheet styrofoam.  The type used for insulation.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11556 From: Tricia Wilkerson Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Question about whether I am seeing eggs or not
                                                                                                                                                                                              That is what I was thinking it was, but wanted to be sure before I started cleaning it all out.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 2:41 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about whether I am seeing eggs or not

                                                                                                                                                                                              Take a look at http://www.aqualandpetsplus.com/Catfish,%20Corydoras.htm and
                                                                                                                                                                                              scroll down for a ways, and you'll see several photos of cory eggs.

                                                                                                                                                                                              What you are describing sounds like a fungus.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I could not quickly find any pictures of cherry barb eggs on the internet,
                                                                                                                                                                                              but I am fairly sure they are probably out t there somewhere, at least in a
                                                                                                                                                                                              description form, if not pictures.

                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Tricia
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 1:49 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about whether I am seeing eggs or not

                                                                                                                                                                                              I have no idea what cory cat eggs or cherry barb eggs look like, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                              am considering cleaning my tank. It seems like this stuff appeared
                                                                                                                                                                                              over night.  It is kind of a white stringy, with little
                                                                                                                                                                                              clumps (almost resembles a cotton ball when you pull it apart) if this
                                                                                                                                                                                              is eggs then I will leave the tank alone for now.
                                                                                                                                                                                              TIA
                                                                                                                                                                                              Tricia



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11557 From: wantvws Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: New tank cleaning
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi...I am setting up a 210 gallon tank for saltwater fish (eventually)
                                                                                                                                                                                              and need some advice on initial cleaning. It has been sitting in a
                                                                                                                                                                                              shed for 5-6 years, and is quite dirty. It has also had a No-Pest
                                                                                                                                                                                              strip fall into it at some point. My plan is to vacuum it, clean it
                                                                                                                                                                                              with clear water as best I can, and then wipe it down inside and out
                                                                                                                                                                                              with a 5% bleach solution (advised by my local pet store). I also plan
                                                                                                                                                                                              on soaking the rocks in a bleach solution and rinsing them afterwards.
                                                                                                                                                                                              If this is a bad idea, PLEASE let me know what I should do...I'm new
                                                                                                                                                                                              to the aquarium world and appreciate all advice...thanks so much!!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                              wantvws
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11558 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: How level is level enough?
                                                                                                                                                                                              I  place a thin layer of  Styrofoam between all my tanks and stands this helps insulate the tanks and take some of the imperfections in level out (tank will crush foam to make it level)
                                                                                                                                                                                              If the shims are under the tank then unless they span gaps you will have some unsupported spots.
                                                                                                                                                                                                As to how level you tank is is you stand on carpet?    I move all my stands 2plus inches away from the wall to avoid tack strip which will affect your level. if its not on your tack strip then your tank is probably fine at the "level" it is 
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                              125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                              90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                              80 gallon south american cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                              55 gallon african cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                              50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11559 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Please help me. I am trying to set up my tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              you have a salt water tank and you are just trying to set them up for water movement correct? then it doesn't matter to much but I would suggest that you place them along the back  1200 1200  900 . 1200 in one corner pointed front and a little to side.  second 1200 almost to middle closer to other 1200 pointed front. and 900 in the other corner pointed to front and a little to middle. I would try to leave an area of less current between the 1200 and the 900 to give the fish a place to rest
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                              125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                              90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                              80 gallon south american cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                              55 gallon african cichlids
                                                                                                                                                                                              50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11560 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New tank cleaning
                                                                                                                                                                                              I wouldn't soak the rocks in bleach just hose them off and leave them in the sun for a week or so live rock is so porous that I would worry that it would suck up bleach.
                                                                                                                                                                                                you could also once they were physically clean place them in a tub with salt water and leave it in the sun once algae grows they should be safe
                                                                                                                                                                                                  cleaning the tank with bleach is fine just be careful not to scratch it if its very dirty
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                              125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                              90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                              80 gallon south american cichlids
                                                                                                                                                                                              55 gallon african cichlids
                                                                                                                                                                                              50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11561 From: everquestdragon Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Snails and Ick Question
                                                                                                                                                                                              Anyone know how long after the ick treatment is complete, that you can
                                                                                                                                                                                              put the snails back in the tank ?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11562 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: How level is level enough?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Bottom line most folks can't read a level :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                              My point
                                                                                                                                                                                              Torpedo level is only slightly out of level. Maybe it looks like 1/8".
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thing to remember is how LONG is the level. If your level is 6" long and
                                                                                                                                                                                              it is out an 1/8" it would be 1" out of level. "
                                                                                                                                                                                              HTH
                                                                                                                                                                                              red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11563 From: paul helms Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New tank cleaning
                                                                                                                                                                                              fil teh buckets with saltwater and run a circulation
                                                                                                                                                                                              pump in them for about 2 weeks. put live sand in your
                                                                                                                                                                                              tank with some salt water. stack rocks in tank the
                                                                                                                                                                                              way you want them. cycle your tank 3 weeks bwfore
                                                                                                                                                                                              adding sanails/ crabs. cycle about 6 weeks before
                                                                                                                                                                                              adding fish. make sure the protein skimmer is working
                                                                                                                                                                                              from day ad there should be no problems. there will
                                                                                                                                                                                              be enough ammonia from the rehydrated rocks, not to
                                                                                                                                                                                              mention the live sand, to cycle your tank. no fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              wil be needed. if you do not plan on keeping
                                                                                                                                                                                              aggreesive fish do not put in damsels as they are very
                                                                                                                                                                                              territorial
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- wantvws <rml1963@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hi...I am setting up a 210 gallon tank for saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish (eventually)
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and need some advice on initial cleaning. It has
                                                                                                                                                                                              > been sitting in a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > shed for 5-6 years, and is quite dirty. It has also
                                                                                                                                                                                              > had a No-Pest
                                                                                                                                                                                              > strip fall into it at some point. My plan is to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > vacuum it, clean it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > with clear water as best I can, and then wipe it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > down inside and out
                                                                                                                                                                                              > with a 5% bleach solution (advised by my local pet
                                                                                                                                                                                              > store). I also plan
                                                                                                                                                                                              > on soaking the rocks in a bleach solution and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > rinsing them afterwards.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > If this is a bad idea, PLEASE let me know what I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > should do...I'm new
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to the aquarium world and appreciate all
                                                                                                                                                                                              > advice...thanks so much!!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wantvws
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11564 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Need help with mouth rot?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                              yesterday I got a new guppy a huge female but today I noticed that
                                                                                                                                                                                              she has a spot on the corner that looks like fuzz and is sorta swaying
                                                                                                                                                                                              in the water. Is this mouth rot? I didn't quarantine her did I infect
                                                                                                                                                                                              my whole tank? Is it contagious? She is in a 1 gallon by herself for
                                                                                                                                                                                              now. Help Please
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11565 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Need help with mouth rot?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hope this helps.. I'd think it would be Fungus not mouth fungus..

                                                                                                                                                                                              Fungus (Saprolegnia or Achyla)Fungi are in fact colourless plants, they are very diverse in in form and have not been studied that much in fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Saprolegnia and Achyla are genera of fungi that attack weakened and injured fish, usually settling on damaged skin or gills, they will also attack the eggs of fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              The spores enter the aquarium from the air so there is no way to stop possible outbreaks.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Threads of fungus spread under the skin forming a web like
                                                                                                                                                                                              structure and eventually produce tufts of external hyphae that may be large enough to look like cotton wool.
                                                                                                                                                                                              These form spores that become free swimming and can then go on to infect other fish that are weak or injured.
                                                                                                                                                                                              It is important  that you remove any fish you suspect immediately to a hospital tank for treatment.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Symptoms of fungus are a grey or whitish growth in the skin of the fish, often associated with visible damage.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Treatment can be with Malachite green in a separate tank for 30 seconds at a strength of 60 mg per litre, repeat treatments may be necessary.
                                                                                                                                                                                              The fungus is stained by the Malachite and usually drops off within a few hours.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Keep the fish under observation for 2 or 3 days as fungus can sometimes regrow. 


                                                                                                                                                                                              Mouth Fungus (Columnaris)Although Columnaris resembles fungus it is in fact a Bacterium.
                                                                                                                                                                                              It is usually found just around the mouth area, rarely spreading.
                                                                                                                                                                                              The first signs are a thin white line around the lips, which then grows into white or grey short tufts that resemble fungus.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Early treatment is needed if you are going to save the fish's life, due to the toxins released and the fact that the fish can not feed.
                                                                                                                                                                                              The best and most effective cure is to use Anti-Biotic.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Penicillin is very effective at 10.000 units per litre, with a second dose after two days.

                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/15/2005 4:11:54 PM US Eastern Standard Time, CK147@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                yesterday I got a new guppy a huge female but today I noticed that
                                                                                                                                                                                              she has a spot on the corner that looks like fuzz and is sorta swaying
                                                                                                                                                                                              in the water. Is this mouth rot? I didn't quarantine her did I infect
                                                                                                                                                                                              my whole tank? Is it contagious? She is in a 1 gallon by herself for
                                                                                                                                                                                              now. Help Please














                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11566 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Need help with mouth rot?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks for the information. But somehow It is gone! Do you think it
                                                                                                                                                                                              fell off (it says below it will after treatment, but I didn't do
                                                                                                                                                                                              anything to her yet). I put her back into the tank, but now I'm not
                                                                                                                                                                                              sure if I should of. I feed them a piece of a snail biscuit last night
                                                                                                                                                                                              and thought maybe there was a piece of food to long to swallow. Now
                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm confused. Thanks again though.


                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hope this helps.. I'd think it would be Fungus not mouth fungus..
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Fungus (Saprolegnia or Achyla)Fungi are in fact colourless plants,
                                                                                                                                                                                              they are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > very diverse in in form and have not been studied that much in fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Saprolegnia and Achyla are genera of fungi that attack weakened and
                                                                                                                                                                                              injured
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish, usually settling on damaged skin or gills, they will also
                                                                                                                                                                                              attack the eggs
                                                                                                                                                                                              > of fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > The spores enter the aquarium from the air so there is no way to stop
                                                                                                                                                                                              > possible outbreaks.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Threads of fungus spread under the skin forming a web like
                                                                                                                                                                                              > structure and eventually produce tufts of external hyphae that may
                                                                                                                                                                                              be large
                                                                                                                                                                                              > enough to look like cotton wool.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > These form spores that become free swimming and can then go on to
                                                                                                                                                                                              infect
                                                                                                                                                                                              > other fish that are weak or injured.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > It is important that you remove any fish you suspect immediately to a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > hospital tank for treatment.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Symptoms of fungus are a grey or whitish growth in the skin of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > often associated with visible damage.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Treatment can be with Malachite green in a separate tank for 30
                                                                                                                                                                                              seconds at a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > strength of 60 mg per litre, repeat treatments may be necessary.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > The fungus is stained by the Malachite and usually drops off within
                                                                                                                                                                                              a few
                                                                                                                                                                                              > hours.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Keep the fish under observation for 2 or 3 days as fungus can sometimes
                                                                                                                                                                                              > regrow.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Mouth Fungus (Columnaris)Although Columnaris resembles fungus it is
                                                                                                                                                                                              in fact a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Bacterium.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > It is usually found just around the mouth area, rarely spreading.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > The first signs are a thin white line around the lips, which then
                                                                                                                                                                                              grows into
                                                                                                                                                                                              > white or grey short tufts that resemble fungus.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Early treatment is needed if you are going to save the fish's life,
                                                                                                                                                                                              due to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the toxins released and the fact that the fish can not feed.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > The best and most effective cure is to use Anti-Biotic.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Penicillin is very effective at 10.000 units per litre, with a
                                                                                                                                                                                              second dose
                                                                                                                                                                                              > after two days.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > In a message dated 5/15/2005 4:11:54 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > CK147@H... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > yesterday I got a new guppy a huge female but today I noticed that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > she has a spot on the corner that looks like fuzz and is sorta swaying
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > in the water. Is this mouth rot? I didn't quarantine her did I infect
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > my whole tank? Is it contagious? She is in a 1 gallon by herself for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > now. Help Please
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11567 From: wantvws Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New tank cleaning
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks so much (again!). I won't clean the rocks with bleach...just
                                                                                                                                                                                              the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11568 From: wantvws Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New tank cleaning
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks for the info...I'll print it and follow it as best as I can. I
                                                                                                                                                                                              have made it as far as bracing my floor and getting all of the bits
                                                                                                                                                                                              and pieces into my garage to clean. I'm sure I will have more
                                                                                                                                                                                              questions as I start setting this monster up...
                                                                                                                                                                                              Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11569 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New tank cleaning
                                                                                                                                                                                              What do you have in addition to tank and rocks? Do you have a skimmer? do you have power heads? Lighting? heat?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                              125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                              90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                              80 gallon south american cichlids
                                                                                                                                                                                              55 gallon African cichlids
                                                                                                                                                                                              50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11570 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Snails and Ick Question
                                                                                                                                                                                              my snails were in during the complete ick treatment.. I just monitored them... what method for treatment did you do.. Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                              Anyone know how long after the ick treatment is complete, that you can
                                                                                                                                                                                              put the snails back in the tank ?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11571 From: Crazy4fids@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: (no subject)
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello Groupies!
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              It is so nice to be a part of a group that is so willing to help others.  I have been reading every post with interest.  I am so anxious to set up my aquarium in the next few months.  I have another question.   After cycling in my 150 gallon aquarium with my school of veil tail leopard danios, what order should I add my other fish?  I plan on adding a dozen angelfish, a few keyhole cichlids, a school of black phantom tetras, a school of corys, a few honey gouramis, a couple of pearl gouramis, a couple of dwarf plecos and a few oticinclis.  I know that the bottom feeders should be added last, but what order do I need to add the other fish (after the danios) and what kind of time frame am I looking at?  Which leads me to my next question.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Could someone recommend a decent test kit for a freshwater tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                              River Falls, WI
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11572 From: Crazy4fids@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: angelfish
                                                                                                                                                                                              Has  anyone ever purchased their angelfish from mellowaquatics.com? 
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                              River Falls, WI
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11573 From: cynnamon dragon Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Snails and Ick Question
                                                                                                                                                                                              ooohh i see.  I used that Quick Cure Medication.

                                                                                                                                                                                              agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              my snails were in during the complete ick treatment.. I just monitored them... what method for treatment did you do.. Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                              Anyone know how long after the ick treatment is complete, that you can
                                                                                                                                                                                              put the snails back in the tank ?
                                                                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11574 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: (no subject)
                                                                                                                                                                                              Linda,

                                                                                                                                                                                              I'd recommend the Aqua-Tru test kits by Kordon. They use dry reagents--more
                                                                                                                                                                                              stable than liquids--the reagents are dated, and the color comparator leaves
                                                                                                                                                                                              the others I have tried in the dust.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Actually, I'd probably add the corys first. Get that activity going on the
                                                                                                                                                                                              bottom of the tank. Then I'd add the angels, but I'd rethink the number. I'd
                                                                                                                                                                                              add fewer, in hopes I could actually get them to grow to their full size--6"
                                                                                                                                                                                              long, SL and 8-12" from the tip of the dorsal to the tip of the anal fin.
                                                                                                                                                                                              They would be my next addition.

                                                                                                                                                                                              The keyholes would come next. I'm not real familiar with them, never having
                                                                                                                                                                                              kept them, but they are supposed to be one of the peaceful cichlids (as are
                                                                                                                                                                                              angels), and, like the angels, they will probably need a bit of time to
                                                                                                                                                                                              establish their territories.

                                                                                                                                                                                              After that, I'd probably go by what is available, but I'd skip the pearl
                                                                                                                                                                                              gouramis as they can be a bit nasty to conspecifics (themselves) and other
                                                                                                                                                                                              fish in the tank--hate to see your Angel's fins done in by these guys.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I'd hold off on the pleco and otos unless there is a problem with algae in
                                                                                                                                                                                              the tank. The pleco con be fed substitute foods, but I have not had that
                                                                                                                                                                                              success with the otos.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Well, since you'll be quarantining the fish before adding them to your main
                                                                                                                                                                                              tank (you will, won't you?), then once the fish have been moved from the
                                                                                                                                                                                              quarantine tank to the main tank, you can get the next batch in. You'll be
                                                                                                                                                                                              looking at a minimum of two weeks for the quarantine, with three really
                                                                                                                                                                                              being better. If there is a problem discovered while the fish are in
                                                                                                                                                                                              quarantine, the period starts over again when the problem has been
                                                                                                                                                                                              rectified.

                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Crazy4fids@...
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 9:47 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] (no subject)


                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello Groupies!

                                                                                                                                                                                              It is so nice to be a part of a group that is so willing to help others. I
                                                                                                                                                                                              have been reading every post with interest. I am so anxious to set up my
                                                                                                                                                                                              aquarium in the next few months. I have another question. After cycling
                                                                                                                                                                                              in my 150 gallon aquarium with my school of veil tail leopard danios, what
                                                                                                                                                                                              order should I add my other fish? I plan on adding a dozen angelfish, a few
                                                                                                                                                                                              keyhole cichlids, a school of black phantom tetras, a school of corys, a few
                                                                                                                                                                                              honey gouramis, a couple of pearl gouramis, a couple of dwarf plecos and a
                                                                                                                                                                                              few oticinclis. I know that the bottom feeders should be added last, but
                                                                                                                                                                                              what order do I need to add the other fish (after the danios) and what kind
                                                                                                                                                                                              of time frame am I looking at? Which leads me to my next question.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Could someone recommend a decent test kit for a freshwater tank?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                              River Falls, WI


                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                              the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                              subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                              in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11575 From: Robbie Lawson Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New tank cleaning
                                                                                                                                                                                              I have everything that the tank had when it was set up about seven years ago. I've got the tank, stand (obviously), light hood with eight bulbs in it, an enormous filter thing that sits under the tank (made by Amiracle, if anyone can tell me where to find info on it), a couple of power heads (I think), two(?) heaters, and a UV filter. The light hood has four flourescent bulbs and four bulbs that are purple. I know that when my brother had it set up, he had some anemones so I assume the purple ones would be the lights for those(?). I also have a pile of cleaning stuff (the magnetic things for cleaning the glass, a python, etc.) and lots of little bits that I've yet to identify. I did not see anything that resembled a protein skimmer today when I moved everything, and I don't recall him having one when it was operational. From what I've read, this may be a wise addition to the setup.
                                                                                                                                                                                              I have a few pictures of the dirty tank and pieces, if anyone is interested.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Like I said before, I'm completely new to this, so any advice is more than welcome!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                              Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:56 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New tank cleaning

                                                                                                                                                                                              What do you have in addition to tank and rocks? Do you have a skimmer? do you have power heads? Lighting? heat?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                              125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                              90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                              80 gallon south american cichlids
                                                                                                                                                                                              55 gallon African cichlids
                                                                                                                                                                                              50 gallon temperate water tank


                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11576 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Snails and Ick Question
                                                                                                                                                                                              not sure... about that I did it the natural way with heat increase and salt... I would then make sure most of the med was out of the tank do like a 50% water change if the snails are in need of going back in if not then just in a few weeks I guess... but watch them... as one time I put in melafix and they freaked out I had to take them out of the tank then do like 80% change... or I would have lost them all.. Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                              ooohh i see.  I used that Quick Cure Medication.

                                                                                                                                                                                              agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              my snails were in during the complete ick treatment.. I just monitored them... what method for treatment did you do.. Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11577 From: paul helms Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New tank cleaning
                                                                                                                                                                                              the big filter in the stand should be the protein
                                                                                                                                                                                              skimmer, unless that is a canister filter. pics would
                                                                                                                                                                                              help. you can send them to me directly...
                                                                                                                                                                                              wtfmorlok@..., and i can identify it for sure.
                                                                                                                                                                                              the purple bulbs are called actinic, and they give off
                                                                                                                                                                                              a blue light, when added to the whites make sthe water
                                                                                                                                                                                              super clear. i am assuming that these bulbs are 4 ft
                                                                                                                                                                                              long. if they are they are 40 watts each, giving you
                                                                                                                                                                                              a total of 320 watts. being that they are 7 years
                                                                                                                                                                                              old, they are probably shot and may need replacing.
                                                                                                                                                                                              if that is the case, it may be cheaper to get a newer
                                                                                                                                                                                              lighting system as they usually come with bulbs.
                                                                                                                                                                                              either way, send pics and i waould be happy to help
                                                                                                                                                                                              you out.
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Robbie Lawson <rml1963@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I have everything that the tank had when it was set
                                                                                                                                                                                              > up about seven years ago. I've got the tank, stand
                                                                                                                                                                                              > (obviously), light hood with eight bulbs in it, an
                                                                                                                                                                                              > enormous filter thing that sits under the tank (made
                                                                                                                                                                                              > by Amiracle, if anyone can tell me where to find
                                                                                                                                                                                              > info on it), a couple of power heads (I think),
                                                                                                                                                                                              > two(?) heaters, and a UV filter. The light hood has
                                                                                                                                                                                              > four flourescent bulbs and four bulbs that are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > purple. I know that when my brother had it set up,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > he had some anemones so I assume the purple ones
                                                                                                                                                                                              > would be the lights for those(?). I also have a pile
                                                                                                                                                                                              > of cleaning stuff (the magnetic things for cleaning
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the glass, a python, etc.) and lots of little bits
                                                                                                                                                                                              > that I've yet to identify. I did not see anything
                                                                                                                                                                                              > that resembled a protein skimmer today when I moved
                                                                                                                                                                                              > everything, and I don't recall him having one when
                                                                                                                                                                                              > it was operational. From what I've read, this may be
                                                                                                                                                                                              > a wise addition to the setup.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I have a few pictures of the dirty tank and pieces,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > if anyone is interested.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Like I said before, I'm completely new to this, so
                                                                                                                                                                                              > any advice is more than welcome!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: kritter714@...
                                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:56 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New tank cleaning
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > What do you have in addition to tank and rocks? Do
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you have a skimmer? do you have power heads?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Lighting? heat?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                              > 125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > 90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                              > 80 gallon south american cichlids
                                                                                                                                                                                              > 55 gallon African cichlids
                                                                                                                                                                                              > 50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11578 From: paul helms Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: (no subject)
                                                                                                                                                                                              i am not all that familiar with key hole cichlids, but
                                                                                                                                                                                              be careful with what you put angels with. they do get
                                                                                                                                                                                              aggressive when breeding, but they do not pack much
                                                                                                                                                                                              bite for defenses
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Crazy4fids@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hello Groupies!
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > It is so nice to be a part of a group that is so
                                                                                                                                                                                              > willing to help others. I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have been reading every post with interest. I am so
                                                                                                                                                                                              > anxious to set up my
                                                                                                                                                                                              > aquarium in the next few months. I have another
                                                                                                                                                                                              > question. After cycling in my
                                                                                                                                                                                              > 150 gallon aquarium with my school of veil tail
                                                                                                                                                                                              > leopard danios, what order
                                                                                                                                                                                              > should I add my other fish? I plan on adding a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > dozen angelfish, a few keyhole
                                                                                                                                                                                              > cichlids, a school of black phantom tetras, a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > school of corys, a few honey
                                                                                                                                                                                              > gouramis, a couple of pearl gouramis, a couple of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > dwarf plecos and a few
                                                                                                                                                                                              > oticinclis. I know that the bottom feeders should
                                                                                                                                                                                              > be added last, but what order
                                                                                                                                                                                              > do I need to add the other fish (after the danios)
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and what kind of time frame
                                                                                                                                                                                              > am I looking at? Which leads me to my next
                                                                                                                                                                                              > question.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Could someone recommend a decent test kit for a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > freshwater tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                              > River Falls, WI
                                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11579 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/15/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New tank cleaning
                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/15/2005 7:45:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, rml1963@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                              stand (obviously), light hood with eight bulbs in it, an enormous filter thing that sits under the tank (made by Amiracle, if anyone can tell me where to find info on it), a couple of power heads (I think), two(?) heaters, and a UV filter. The light hood has four flourescent bulbs and four bulbs that are purple. I know that when my brother had it set up, he had some anemones so I assume the purple ones would be the lights for those(?). 
                                                                                                                                                                                              the amiracle thing is a wet dry or trickle filter goes under tank water goes out over flow box down vacuum cleaner like hose to sump filled with something  (bio balls of the like) then is pumped up and back to tank. very good biological filter but produces a lot of nitrates so lots of people these days have placed live rock or sand in them and removed the balls. you can usually place heater and or skimmer in there also. Here are a couple links.
                                                                                                                                                                                                What do the bulbs look like are they regular fluorescent looking bulbs or smaller and skinnier and have a bend? I don't think even 8 regular fluorescent are enough light for reef but if they are VHO then cool and compact fluorescent cool also. the bluer tone is actinic most people mix color bulbs. The bulbs do need to be replaced look into what it costs to replace bulbs Vs replace fixture if it is part of hood I would just replace bulbs (if you have enough wattage) less hassle.
                                                                                                                                                                                               UV filter will likely need a new bulb also I don think those things take storage well and loose effectiveness gradually while being used. Lots of people don't use those anymore any way.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Skimmer is a must in fact many people use skimmer live rock live sand and refugarium no other filter. You need several power head 2 or 3 high power flow for your tank I am assuming your tank is at least a 6 footer need lots of movement in my tank I have 1 800gph and will have a second and that is just for movement.
                                                                                                                                                                                               Do you have any books? Do you want any book recommendations?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                              125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                              90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                              80 gallon south american cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                              55 gallon african cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                              50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11580 From: daniel_roachus Date: 5/16/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: pea gravel
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Trevor Holyoak <trevor@h...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > If it's the 150 gallon tank that Petsmart carried, that's the one I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have, and I love it! :)
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > The pea gravel will be fine. It's actually what I wish I had used
                                                                                                                                                                                              in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > mine. Just make sure to rinse it well.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >

                                                                                                                                                                                              although it may be a bit too large and sharp for the cories to dig
                                                                                                                                                                                              around in....


                                                                                                                                                                                              > - Trevor
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Linda Amundsen wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I am new to the group. I have been away from the aquarium hobby
                                                                                                                                                                                              for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > several years now. We close on our new, larger house at the end
                                                                                                                                                                                              of May
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > and my husband said that I could get another aquarium. My last
                                                                                                                                                                                              tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > was a 125 gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I am looking at a 150 show tank. I am going to stock it with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > angelfish, keyhole cichlids, gouramis, black phantom tetras, veil
                                                                                                                                                                                              tail
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > zebra danios, corys and a couple of the smaller plecos and a few
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > oticinclis.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > To save some money on the cost of the gravel, I was wondering if I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > could use the pea gravel that they sell at Home Depot. It is a
                                                                                                                                                                                              little
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > darker than I would like, but I figured I could use half of a
                                                                                                                                                                                              lighter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > color from an aquarium store.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > River Falls, WI
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > .
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                                                                                                                                                                                              > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
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                                                                                                                                                                                              matter
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11581 From: Robbie Lawson Date: 5/16/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New tank set-up
                                                                                                                                                                                              Wow, you guys are a lot of help! Six of the eight bulbs work, and there is some sort of rock in the bottom of the Amiracle filter. The UV filter, in my opinion, is questionable because the ballast (I guess that is what it is) is fairly rusty, and I'm a little hesitant to plug it in. If I can get by without it, great.
                                                                                                                                                                                              The tank is 7'x2'x2' and there are two power heads, although I'm not sure of the gph.
                                                                                                                                                                                              I have about seven books that my brother bought in the early nineties, and about 40 magazines from the same time. If you have a good reccomendation on a book printed recently, please let me know.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks Again!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11582 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/16/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                              oh, i see. well, i'm going to try a little piece of blanched zucchini to see if that makes them
                                                                                                                                                                                              stop. if not, then they're history. well not history in the sense that i'd flush them, but,
                                                                                                                                                                                              they'll be returned to the lfs for some different ones =) thanks for the advice!

                                                                                                                                                                                              --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > no, that is not typical otto behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > replace them with more otos? wouldn't that just
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > cause the same problem?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:replace them
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > that's what i thought. now the question is, what
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > do
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > i do?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > when i got home tonight angel had some whitish
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > on him that disappeared after awhile. it looked
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > like
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > a fungus. i treated with maracide tablet that i'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > supposed to repeat for 5 days straight.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > looks like an o0tto
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > i've had the otos for about 4 mos approximately.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > i'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > pretty sure that they're otos and not chinese
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > eaters from the photos i saw online. i attached
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > some
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > photos of the otos in my tank, let me know what
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > think.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > their tummies usually look nice & round so i'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > assuming they are getting enough to eat. i know
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > there's never any algae on the tank walls, esp.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > compared to my other tanks w/o otos where the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > has to be cleaned off occasionally.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > how long have you had them? if you are not 1000%
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > sure
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > that they are ottos, and not baby chinese i
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > would
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > look
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > up some pics of both. ottos require a very
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > high
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > amount of food and usually die when there is a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > lack
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > of algae. maybe they are adapting to a low
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > level?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > oh my!! what do you suggest i do? give the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > otos
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > back
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > the lfs?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > i have only seen that with chinese algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > eaters
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > who
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > are sucking on the slime coat of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > fish...doing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > harm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > not cleaningh
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > --- Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > this morning i noticed 2 of my otos
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > hanging
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > off
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > my
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > angel the way they do on the tank walls.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > angel got annoyed and swam away quickly
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > otos
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > fell off. as soon as the angel went near
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > otos they jumped back onto the angel and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > did
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > same thing.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > has anyone ever seen this behavior before?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > do
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > think something is wrong with either of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > 2?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > do you think the otos were 'cleaning' the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > angel?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > both are otherwise acting normally, eating
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > normally, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Valeen Robertson Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                              I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11583 From: Andreas Date: 5/16/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: do clown loaches eat eggs?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hey all
                                                                                                                                                                                              Well my monocyrrus polycanthus have laid more eggs, but they keep on
                                                                                                                                                                                              disapearing. My prime suspect is the clown loach? Do you think he
                                                                                                                                                                                              would be capable of such a crime? of course I have no idea how to
                                                                                                                                                                                              catch the little bastard.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11584 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/16/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: do clown loaches eat eggs?
                                                                                                                                                                                              any fish will eat the eggs of other fish.... my clown loaches love cory catfish eggs. will follow patiently behind females and then eat everyone of them.

                                                                                                                                                                                              nice free food  lol

                                                                                                                                                                                              rob
                                                                                                                                                                                              indiana
                                                                                                                                                                                              usa

                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/16/2005 2:56:44 PM US Eastern Standard Time, andreas1120@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                                              Hey all
                                                                                                                                                                                              Well my monocyrrus polycanthus have laid more eggs, but they keep on
                                                                                                                                                                                              disapearing.  My prime suspect is the clown loach?  Do you think he
                                                                                                                                                                                              would be capable of such a crime?  of course I have no idea how to
                                                                                                                                                                                              catch the little bastard.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Andreas


                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11585 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/16/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: do clown loaches eat eggs?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Does a Bear like Honey??? Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Andreas <andreas1120@g...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hey all
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Well my monocyrrus polycanthus have laid more eggs, but they keep on
                                                                                                                                                                                              > disapearing. My prime suspect is the clown loach? Do you think he
                                                                                                                                                                                              > would be capable of such a crime? of course I have no idea how to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > catch the little bastard.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11586 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/16/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Lighting for plants: Fluro's verses Halogen
                                                                                                                                                                                              Looking at the wattage per buck the halogen seams to be better... are the halogens better for plants or equivalent?   do they cause alge or scum?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              A fluro costs me about $24 ish for a 10000k 36w and a whole unit costs $30
                                                                                                                                                                                              A Halogen costs about $3 ish for a 100w standard halogen house lighting and a whole unit costs $20
                                                                                                                                                                                              (Queensland Australa priceing at my local Bunnings store)
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11587 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/16/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New tank set-up
                                                                                                                                                                                              Unfortunately I loaned my saltwater books to someone (forgot till I looked) a book by Moe is very good and I can't remember the author of the other scarsella?
                                                                                                                                                                                                I will hunt down the person who borroed my books and see if I can get them back
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                              125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                              90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                              80 gallon south american cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                              55 gallon african cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                              50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11588 From: Andreas Date: 5/16/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: algea eaters for specific conditions
                                                                                                                                                                                              I need to add some algae eaters to the following tank.


                                                                                                                                                                                              90 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                              5 pike characins
                                                                                                                                                                                              5 south american leaf fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              3 falowelas

                                                                                                                                                                                              PH 6.1
                                                                                                                                                                                              soft water

                                                                                                                                                                                              the leaf fish like it like that.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I need some algae eaters to get rid of the green thread algae that
                                                                                                                                                                                              seems to over grow.

                                                                                                                                                                                              any suggestions?

                                                                                                                                                                                              I dont want them to get eaten and the folowelas dont like this algae.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11589 From: Paul N. Chung Date: 5/16/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: (no subject)
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello Linda,

                                                                                                                                                                                              You can try using Tetra test kit. They are quite
                                                                                                                                                                                              accurate.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Paul
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Crazy4fids@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hello Groupies!
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > It is so nice to be a part of a group that is so
                                                                                                                                                                                              > willing to help others. I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have been reading every post with interest. I am so
                                                                                                                                                                                              > anxious to set up my
                                                                                                                                                                                              > aquarium in the next few months. I have another
                                                                                                                                                                                              > question. After cycling in my
                                                                                                                                                                                              > 150 gallon aquarium with my school of veil tail
                                                                                                                                                                                              > leopard danios, what order
                                                                                                                                                                                              > should I add my other fish? I plan on adding a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > dozen angelfish, a few keyhole
                                                                                                                                                                                              > cichlids, a school of black phantom tetras, a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > school of corys, a few honey
                                                                                                                                                                                              > gouramis, a couple of pearl gouramis, a couple of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > dwarf plecos and a few
                                                                                                                                                                                              > oticinclis. I know that the bottom feeders should
                                                                                                                                                                                              > be added last, but what order
                                                                                                                                                                                              > do I need to add the other fish (after the danios)
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and what kind of time frame
                                                                                                                                                                                              > am I looking at? Which leads me to my next
                                                                                                                                                                                              > question.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Could someone recommend a decent test kit for a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > freshwater tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                              > River Falls, WI
                                                                                                                                                                                              >


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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11590 From: anubias Date: 5/16/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: hello and meeting notice
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Gang:
                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm new to the group but have been in the hobby for 35 years. I've
                                                                                                                                                                                              been keeping marines for 29 years. I've also been fortunate enough to
                                                                                                                                                                                              be able to make a living in the pet industry for most of the last 21
                                                                                                                                                                                              years. I've owned or managed independent retail stores as well as
                                                                                                                                                                                              chain stores, and have also spent a number of years working for am
                                                                                                                                                                                              importer. I currently operate an aquarium/terrarium design,
                                                                                                                                                                                              installation and maintenance business serving the greater Philadelphia
                                                                                                                                                                                              area. We're starting to do some pond installations as well. I've
                                                                                                                                                                                              been working with ponds off and on for about 29 years, too. I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              active in a number of local aquarium societies and speak at club
                                                                                                                                                                                              meetings on a regular basis. I'll be giving a talk on Aquascaping at
                                                                                                                                                                                              the South Jersey Tropical Fish Association meeting in Voorhees on May
                                                                                                                                                                                              17th. If anyone is in the area, I'd love to see you there. The
                                                                                                                                                                                              meeting starts at 7:30, and directions are available on their website
                                                                                                                                                                                              (sjtfa.us).
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11591 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/16/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: tank weight
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks, thats great advice.


                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: <r_ohle@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 2:00 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] tank weight


                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I happen to be a Building Inspector. Your home was designed with a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > specific loads in mind. There are two criteria, live load and dead load.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > At 1260 pounds in eight square feet, that would calculate out to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > 157.5pounds per square foot. Now remember I am inspector not a Structural
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Engineer :-) Sooooooo..... now that you know the dead load that exists
                                                                                                                                                                                              > check either with a structural Engineer or if you get real lucky your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > local
                                                                                                                                                                                              > building department. . Just tell them you are adding a dead load of 1260
                                                                                                                                                                                              > pounds (157.5 pounds per square foot over eight square feet) to the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > second
                                                                                                                                                                                              > floor of your home . They will determine the type of structure & look it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > up the design load in a table. If you had original building plans it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > would
                                                                                                                                                                                              > be invaluable sine the engineer could easily calculate the loads. HTH
                                                                                                                                                                                              > red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > At 06:40 PM 5/11/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>It's the newby again. The tank that I am looking at buying is a 150
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>gallon show tank with the dimensions of 48"long x 24"deep x 30" high.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>I am guessing that the tank itself weighs about 150 pounds. The water
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>is going to weigh in at @ 1260 pounds. The gravel approx 150 pounds
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>and the ornamental rocks will add an additional 25 pounds. I am not
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>sure on the weight of the stand, but I guess it will be about the same
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>as the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>My question is this. Our new house is a split level. I would really
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>like the aquarium to be upstairs near the dining room and the living
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>room. I know that I must make sure the joists go perpendicular to the
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>length of the tank. with the downstairs being finished, how is one
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>suppose to find out? Is there any other way I can make sure that my
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>floor is strong enough for my tank? The house was built in 1987, so it
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>is 18 years old.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>Thanks again,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>River Falls, WI
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                              > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11592 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/16/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Tiger barbs not agressive in my experience.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi,

                                                                                                                                                                                              Wanting to get feedback from others cause my tiger barbs which ive had as a group of 4 since i brought them have never niped each other or the other fish in the tank.  Recently i added another 8 babie barbs about 2.5 cm in size (1in) and they were never picked on.

                                                                                                                                                                                              So i wan't to challenge the common place statment as follows:

                                                                                                                                                                                              Tiger Barbs are instantly recognisable by almost everyone. Most people make the same mistake with their first tank and buy all their fish in twos. If you do that with these fish you will soon have a situation that requires you to intervene because they will be nipping the fins of all the other fish. These fish must be kept in a shoal, their squabbling will then be confined to each other and the other fish will be left alone.

                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Obviously my only experience is with these 12 tiger barbs in my only fish tank (300 liters) 90 gallons.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11593 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/16/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Breading Tiger Barbs
                                                                                                                                                                                              I think one of my tiger barbs is pregnant or at least she's a she and she has 3 other adult males around.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              How long does it take for them to give birth to the eggs?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11594 From: LobsterPond.com Date: 5/16/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: algea eaters for specific conditions
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                              I have a couple of algea eaters - red claws.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Of course- most crayfish are algea eaters and I had a hard time getting enough algea to grow in my tanks for them (fresh food source).

                                                                                                                                                                                              I have both blue-green algea and a red.

                                                                                                                                                                                              They need to be kept with other bottom cleaning fish since they are still messy eaters.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Hope that helps-
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sherry
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11595 From: Crazy4fids@aol.com Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: driftwood
                                                                                                                                                                                              Does anyone have a good source for large pieces of driftwood?  I am looking for something large enough for my 150 gallon tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                              River Falls, WI
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11596 From: Andreas Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: low PH shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                              anyone know which algae eating shrimp are ok at a PH of 6.1 or so?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11597 From: karima_allison Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Can a Pleco survive in a pond?
                                                                                                                                                                                              We have two Plecos that are about 12 inches long at this point. They
                                                                                                                                                                                              have obviously outgrown the 50 gallon aquarium they share with a
                                                                                                                                                                                              bunch of other fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                              My local fish store (a real fish store)said they would take them and
                                                                                                                                                                                              they have a pond they put them in.

                                                                                                                                                                                              We also have a pond in a beautiful park nearby. It has fish and
                                                                                                                                                                                              ducks, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                              My question is: can they survive in a pond? We live in the Midwest
                                                                                                                                                                                              and the winters get very cold here.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks for any help on this. We have to find them a new home and
                                                                                                                                                                                              want it to be a happy one for them. :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Karima
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11598 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Can a Pleco survive in a pond?
                                                                                                                                                                                              A pleco can survive in a pond in a warm climate, but you wouldn't want
                                                                                                                                                                                              to release one into a public pond.

                                                                                                                                                                                              - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                                              karima_allison wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > We have two Plecos that are about 12 inches long at this point. They
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have obviously outgrown the 50 gallon aquarium they share with a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > bunch of other fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > My local fish store (a real fish store)said they would take them and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > they have a pond they put them in.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > We also have a pond in a beautiful park nearby. It has fish and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ducks, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > My question is: can they survive in a pond? We live in the Midwest
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and the winters get very cold here.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks for any help on this. We have to find them a new home and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > want it to be a happy one for them. :-)
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ~Karima
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11599 From: Ron Hansen Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Can a Pleco survive in a pond?
                                                                                                                                                                                              In most states it is illegal to release non-indigenous fish into public
                                                                                                                                                                                              waterways.


                                                                                                                                                                                              karima_allison said:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > We also have a pond in a beautiful park nearby. It has fish and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ducks, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > My question is: can they survive in a pond? We live in the Midwest
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and the winters get very cold here.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks for any help on this. We have to find them a new home and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > want it to be a happy one for them. :-)
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ~Karima
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11600 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Can a Pleco survive in a pond?
                                                                                                                                                                                              From what I've seen here on the posts, they can't survive at all in
                                                                                                                                                                                              temps fewer than 55 (or around that.)

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                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                              On Behalf Of karima_allison
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 10:32 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Can a Pleco survive in a pond?

                                                                                                                                                                                              We have two Plecos that are about 12 inches long at this point. They
                                                                                                                                                                                              have obviously outgrown the 50 gallon aquarium they share with a
                                                                                                                                                                                              bunch of other fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                              My local fish store (a real fish store)said they would take them and
                                                                                                                                                                                              they have a pond they put them in.

                                                                                                                                                                                              We also have a pond in a beautiful park nearby. It has fish and
                                                                                                                                                                                              ducks, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                              My question is: can they survive in a pond? We live in the Midwest
                                                                                                                                                                                              and the winters get very cold here.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks for any help on this. We have to find them a new home and
                                                                                                                                                                                              want it to be a happy one for them. :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Karima





                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important
                                                                                                                                                                                              to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                                                                                              the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11601 From: paul helms Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Can a Pleco survive in a pond?
                                                                                                                                                                                              no

                                                                                                                                                                                              --- karima_allison <karima@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > We have two Plecos that are about 12 inches long at
                                                                                                                                                                                              > this point. They
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have obviously outgrown the 50 gallon aquarium they
                                                                                                                                                                                              > share with a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > bunch of other fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > My local fish store (a real fish store)said they
                                                                                                                                                                                              > would take them and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > they have a pond they put them in.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > We also have a pond in a beautiful park nearby. It
                                                                                                                                                                                              > has fish and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ducks, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > My question is: can they survive in a pond? We
                                                                                                                                                                                              > live in the Midwest
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and the winters get very cold here.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks for any help on this. We have to find them a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > new home and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > want it to be a happy one for them. :-)
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ~Karima
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11602 From: paul helms Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: low PH shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                              ph is irrelevant, just acclimate slowly

                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Andreas <andreas1120@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > anyone know which algae eating shrimp are ok at a PH
                                                                                                                                                                                              > of 6.1 or so?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11603 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: angelfish
                                                                                                                                                                                              There are a couple Great Angelfish breeders/suppliers in Wisconsin.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I have never heard anything about mellowaquatics myself.

                                                                                                                                                                                              House of Angels - www.thehouseofangels.com or 1-866-566-5360 is a well established and respected breeder/supplier in Northern Wisconsin.
                                                                                                                                                                                              There is also "Joe's Wisconsin Sales"  wholesale/retail in Racine, WI  (262) 637-0670

                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/15/2005 8:49:43 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Crazy4fids@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                                              Has  anyone ever purchased their angelfish from mellowaquatics.com?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Angelfish for Sale


                                                                                                                                                                                              Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                              River Falls, WI






                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11604 From: FortWayneFish@aol.com Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: driftwood
                                                                                                                                                                                              Driftwood can be expensive especially the larger peices. It might be in your best intrest to look for 3-4 medium sized pieces instead of 1 large one.
                                                                                                                                                                                              online driftwood retailers...............

                                                                                                                                                                                              www.1driftwoodsupplier.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              www.floridadriftwood.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              www.fishpondinfo.com/decor.htm
                                                                                                                                                                                              www.aquariumguys.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              are afew places to try also EBAY has a few good deals once in awhile. Make sure to read all the lengths.  Get a ruler and imagine the size of the driftwood will help determine piece or pieces you need.

                                                                                                                                                                                              rob
                                                                                                                                                                                              indiana




                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/17/2005 9:18:23 AM US Eastern Standard Time, Crazy4fids@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                                              Does anyone have a good source for large pieces of driftwood?  I am looking for something large enough for my 150 gallon tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                              River Falls, WI






                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11605 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Popeye
                                                                                                                                                                                              What causes it? Which fish are susceptible, and how do you cure, or
                                                                                                                                                                                              prevent it?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11606 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Tiger barbs not agressive in my experience.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Nicolas,

                                                                                                                                                                                              Strikes me that you have no basis to challenge the statement you present,
                                                                                                                                                                                              since you have always kept tiger barbs in a group. You have actually taken a
                                                                                                                                                                                              step to prove it for someone who may only have one or two tiger barbs in
                                                                                                                                                                                              their tank and are seeing their destructive behavior toward other
                                                                                                                                                                                              tankmates.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Were I to be keeping two tiger barbs in a tank, and see your post, it would
                                                                                                                                                                                              motivate me to go out and get two or three more of them to determine the
                                                                                                                                                                                              veracity of the statement. If it didn't work out for me, then I may feel I
                                                                                                                                                                                              have the basis to start to challenge the statement.

                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Nicolas Munro
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:54 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Tiger barbs not agressive in my experience.



                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi,

                                                                                                                                                                                              Wanting to get feedback from others cause my tiger barbs which ive had as a
                                                                                                                                                                                              group of 4 since i brought them have never niped each other or the other
                                                                                                                                                                                              fish in the tank. Recently i added another 8 babie barbs about 2.5 cm in
                                                                                                                                                                                              size (1in) and they were never picked on.

                                                                                                                                                                                              So i wan't to challenge the common place statment as follows:

                                                                                                                                                                                              Tiger Barbs are instantly recognisable by almost everyone. Most people make
                                                                                                                                                                                              the same mistake with their first tank and buy all their fish in twos. If
                                                                                                                                                                                              you do that with these fish you will soon have a situation that requires you
                                                                                                                                                                                              to intervene because they will be nipping the fins of all the other fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              These fish must be kept in a shoal, their squabbling will then be confined
                                                                                                                                                                                              to each other and the other fish will be left alone.

                                                                                                                                                                                              http://groups.msn.com/Breedingtropicalfish/tigerbarbs.msnw




                                                                                                                                                                                              Obviously my only experience is with these 12 tiger barbs in my only fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              tank (300 liters) 90 gallons.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11607 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: algea eaters for specific conditions
                                                                                                                                                                                              * I had a Yabbie (Australian Fresh Water Crayfish). It got really big
                                                                                                                                                                                              really quick in my 300 liter tank... Always seemed to be hiding during day
                                                                                                                                                                                              but didn't have any problem with alge.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Unfortunatly he climbed out of the tank, crepted into my bedroom cubord and
                                                                                                                                                                                              looked like a large cockroach (in the dark) so i hit it and hence ended its
                                                                                                                                                                                              carreer as a alge eater. Since then my tank has got a bit more furry so i
                                                                                                                                                                                              guess he must have worked.


                                                                                                                                                                                              * I also have a Simease Flying Fox or Alge Eater don't know the
                                                                                                                                                                                              difference...



                                                                                                                                                                                              Both seamed to survive whilst my tank was pH 6 but that lasted for only a
                                                                                                                                                                                              week so not sure about the long lasting effects.



                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: "LobsterPond.com" <BlueMarinaPonds@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 12:36 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] algea eaters for specific conditions


                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hi Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I have a couple of algea eaters - red claws.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Of course- most crayfish are algea eaters and I had a hard time getting
                                                                                                                                                                                              > enough algea to grow in my tanks for them (fresh food source).
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I have both blue-green algea and a red.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > They need to be kept with other bottom cleaning fish since they are still
                                                                                                                                                                                              > messy eaters.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hope that helps-
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sherry
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                              > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11608 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Question about whether I am seeing eggs or not
                                                                                                                                                                                              COOL WEBSITE...

                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 7:41 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about whether I am seeing eggs or not


                                                                                                                                                                                              > Take a look at http://www.aqualandpetsplus.com/Catfish,%20Corydoras.htm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > scroll down for a ways, and you'll see several photos of cory eggs.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > What you are describing sounds like a fungus.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I could not quickly find any pictures of cherry barb eggs on the internet,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > but I am fairly sure they are probably out t there somewhere, at least in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > description form, if not pictures.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of Tricia
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 1:49 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about whether I am seeing eggs or not
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I have no idea what cory cat eggs or cherry barb eggs look like, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > am considering cleaning my tank. It seems like this stuff appeared
                                                                                                                                                                                              > over night. It is kind of a white stringy, with little
                                                                                                                                                                                              > clumps (almost resembles a cotton ball when you pull it apart) if this
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is eggs then I will leave the tank alone for now.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > TIA
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Tricia
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                              > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11609 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Tiger barbs not agressive in my experience.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Does any one here have two or less barbs?   are they aggressive?   mine sure as hell arn't
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              but they are in a group and the older ones are probably about 7 months old (5.5cm to 6cm ish)/
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:52 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tiger barbs not agressive in my experience.

                                                                                                                                                                                              > Nicolas,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Strikes me that you have no basis to
                                                                                                                                                                                              challenge the statement you present,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > since you have always kept tiger
                                                                                                                                                                                              barbs in a group. You have actually taken a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > step to prove it for someone
                                                                                                                                                                                              who may only have one or two tiger barbs in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > their tank and are seeing
                                                                                                                                                                                              their destructive behavior toward other
                                                                                                                                                                                              > tankmates.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Were
                                                                                                                                                                                              I to be keeping two tiger barbs in a tank, and see your post, it would
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              motivate me to go out and get two or three more of them to determine the
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              veracity of the statement. If it didn't work out for me, then I may feel I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have the basis to start to challenge the statement.

                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              size=2>\\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > From:
                                                                                                                                                                                              href="mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com">AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of Nicolas Munro
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:54 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > To:
                                                                                                                                                                                              href="mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com">AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tiger barbs not agressive in my experience.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Wanting to get feedback from
                                                                                                                                                                                              others cause my tiger barbs which ive had as a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > group of 4 since i
                                                                                                                                                                                              brought them have never niped each other or the other
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              tank.  Recently i added another 8 babie barbs about 2.5 cm in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > size
                                                                                                                                                                                              (1in) and they were never picked on.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > So i wan't to challenge
                                                                                                                                                                                              the common place statment as follows:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Tiger Barbs are instantly
                                                                                                                                                                                              recognisable by almost everyone. Most people make
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the same mistake with
                                                                                                                                                                                              their first tank and buy all their fish in twos. If
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you do that with
                                                                                                                                                                                              these fish you will soon have a situation that requires you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to intervene
                                                                                                                                                                                              because they will be nipping the fins of all the other fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > These fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              must be kept in a shoal, their squabbling will then be confined
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to each
                                                                                                                                                                                              other and the other fish will be left alone.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              href="http://groups.msn.com/Breedingtropicalfish/tigerbarbs.msnw">http://groups.msn.com/Breedingtropicalfish/tigerbarbs.msnw




                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              Obviously my only experience is with these 12 tiger barbs in my only fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              > tank (300 liters) 90 gallons.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11610 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Breading Tiger Barbs - got any pics?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Got any advice? some websites say you got to seperate the males and females, i only have one tank so is it really necessary to seperate m/f ?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 12:54 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Breading Tiger Barbs

                                                                                                                                                                                              I think one of my tiger barbs is pregnant or at least she's a she and she has 3 other adult males around.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              How long does it take for them to give birth to the eggs?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              =Nick


                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11611 From: J G Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Tiger barbs not agressive in my experience.
                                                                                                                                                                                              I dont kniow if there's a difference in teperment
                                                                                                                                                                                              between regular tiger barbs & green tiger barbs, but
                                                                                                                                                                                              Neo, my green tiger barb is doin alright in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              communal tank. He's in with an angel, 2 glow tetras,
                                                                                                                                                                                              a pelco & a otocat... From what I've seen (I've had
                                                                                                                                                                                              Neo for a couple months now) he & the rest of the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              seem to be getting along pretty well. I'm not watchin
                                                                                                                                                                                              it 24-7, but...


                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Nicolas,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Strikes me that you have no basis to challenge the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > statement you present,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > since you have always kept tiger barbs in a group.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > You have actually taken a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > step to prove it for someone who may only have one
                                                                                                                                                                                              > or two tiger barbs in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > their tank and are seeing their destructive behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                              > toward other
                                                                                                                                                                                              > tankmates.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Were I to be keeping two tiger barbs in a tank, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > see your post, it would
                                                                                                                                                                                              > motivate me to go out and get two or three more of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > them to determine the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > veracity of the statement. If it didn't work out for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > me, then I may feel I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have the basis to start to challenge the statement.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of Nicolas Munro
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:54 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tiger barbs not agressive in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > my experience.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Wanting to get feedback from others cause my tiger
                                                                                                                                                                                              > barbs which ive had as a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > group of 4 since i brought them have never niped
                                                                                                                                                                                              > each other or the other
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish in the tank. Recently i added another 8 babie
                                                                                                                                                                                              > barbs about 2.5 cm in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > size (1in) and they were never picked on.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > So i wan't to challenge the common place statment as
                                                                                                                                                                                              > follows:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Tiger Barbs are instantly recognisable by almost
                                                                                                                                                                                              > everyone. Most people make
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the same mistake with their first tank and buy all
                                                                                                                                                                                              > their fish in twos. If
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you do that with these fish you will soon have a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > situation that requires you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to intervene because they will be nipping the fins
                                                                                                                                                                                              > of all the other fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > These fish must be kept in a shoal, their squabbling
                                                                                                                                                                                              > will then be confined
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to each other and the other fish will be left alone.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              http://groups.msn.com/Breedingtropicalfish/tigerbarbs.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Obviously my only experience is with these 12 tiger
                                                                                                                                                                                              > barbs in my only fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              > tank (300 liters) 90 gallons.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11612 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: driftwood
                                                                                                                                                                                              Try Wilma Duncan ( omb00726@... ). Besides supplying
                                                                                                                                                                                              driftwood for fellow hobbyists, she actually provided the driftwood for
                                                                                                                                                                                              the movie "Pirates of the Caribbean."

                                                                                                                                                                                              - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                                              Crazy4fids@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > Does anyone have a good source for large pieces of driftwood? I am
                                                                                                                                                                                              > looking for something large enough for my 150 gallon tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                              > River Falls, WI
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                              > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                              > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11613 From: Anne Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: New Tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi, Well, I knew it would happen eventually- my
                                                                                                                                                                                              clowns are starting to outgrow their current tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              I'll be moving them to a larger one when it's
                                                                                                                                                                                              completely cycled, (I haven't started yet) I'll be
                                                                                                                                                                                              using a sand substrate, and probably a sponge filter -
                                                                                                                                                                                              but I'm wondering what is the best fish to cycle with?
                                                                                                                                                                                              I cycled one tank with a mollie, she's since had fry
                                                                                                                                                                                              twice so she is none the worse for the experience but
                                                                                                                                                                                              I want the clowns to occupy most of this tank. They
                                                                                                                                                                                              currently reside with 4 cherry barbs and 7 harlequin
                                                                                                                                                                                              rasboras which will remain in the old tank along with
                                                                                                                                                                                              my cories. (they will be moving from a 10 to the 29)
                                                                                                                                                                                              Any suggestions on hardy fish to cycle the 40gal? And
                                                                                                                                                                                              how many?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks Anne




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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11614 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/17/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Tiger barbs not agressive in my experience.
                                                                                                                                                                                              yep just as i thought, i think a lot of these web sites must copy stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                              without actually trying it or making there own judgements.


                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: "J G" <sir_grubs47@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 12:47 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tiger barbs not agressive in my experience.


                                                                                                                                                                                              >I dont kniow if there's a difference in teperment
                                                                                                                                                                                              > between regular tiger barbs & green tiger barbs, but
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Neo, my green tiger barb is doin alright in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > communal tank. He's in with an angel, 2 glow tetras,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > a pelco & a otocat... From what I've seen (I've had
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Neo for a couple months now) he & the rest of the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              > seem to be getting along pretty well. I'm not watchin
                                                                                                                                                                                              > it 24-7, but...
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Nicolas,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Strikes me that you have no basis to challenge the
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> statement you present,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> since you have always kept tiger barbs in a group.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> You have actually taken a
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> step to prove it for someone who may only have one
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> or two tiger barbs in
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> their tank and are seeing their destructive behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> toward other
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> tankmates.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Were I to be keeping two tiger barbs in a tank, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> see your post, it would
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> motivate me to go out and get two or three more of
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> them to determine the
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> veracity of the statement. If it didn't work out for
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> me, then I may feel I
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> have the basis to start to challenge the statement.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Behalf Of Nicolas Munro
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:54 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Tiger barbs not agressive in
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> my experience.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Wanting to get feedback from others cause my tiger
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> barbs which ive had as a
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> group of 4 since i brought them have never niped
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> each other or the other
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> fish in the tank. Recently i added another 8 babie
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> barbs about 2.5 cm in
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> size (1in) and they were never picked on.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> So i wan't to challenge the common place statment as
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> follows:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Tiger Barbs are instantly recognisable by almost
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> everyone. Most people make
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> the same mistake with their first tank and buy all
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> their fish in twos. If
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> you do that with these fish you will soon have a
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> situation that requires you
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> to intervene because they will be nipping the fins
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> of all the other fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> These fish must be kept in a shoal, their squabbling
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> will then be confined
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> to each other and the other fish will be left alone.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.msn.com/Breedingtropicalfish/tigerbarbs.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Obviously my only experience is with these 12 tiger
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> barbs in my only fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> tank (300 liters) 90 gallons.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11615 From: hnorton1cogeco.ca Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: driftwood and other decorating /Heather Norton
                                                                                                                                                                                              I am redesigning my new thirty five tank for my angels and would like any help in what to put in it that will show my angels of an give them a nice show for people to see ?What breeds of plants my Angels are pearl and I have one common Angel plus one pare of Coredora cats and one ? snail but dont want any thing to injure my Angels fins and bodies
                                                                                                                                                                                              Heather Norton
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11616 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Popeye
                                                                                                                                                                                              Popeye (I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam), is usually the
                                                                                                                                                                                              result of water conditions (high ammonia and/or nitrites) and is
                                                                                                                                                                                              sometimes a precurser to Dropsey. It is seen as the protrusion of
                                                                                                                                                                                              the eye from pressure (gases and/or liquid) behind the eyeball,
                                                                                                                                                                                              having many causes -- bacterial, viral, piscine TB and less
                                                                                                                                                                                              frequently problems with the vessels behind the eye. Nitrogen
                                                                                                                                                                                              supersaturation, associated with this last cause, may also be a
                                                                                                                                                                                              factor; in this rare case, high-powered power heads can saturate the
                                                                                                                                                                                              water with nitrogen (from over-aeration), resulting in the fish's
                                                                                                                                                                                              bloodstream taking up too much nitrogen. As can be seen, this is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              always a cureable disease/condition, although several medications may
                                                                                                                                                                                              be effective depending upon the cause. Kanamycin sulfate, a broad-
                                                                                                                                                                                              spectrum (gram-negative/gram-postive) antibiotic is one of these
                                                                                                                                                                                              medications, being one of the few bactocides that are absorbed
                                                                                                                                                                                              through the skin, which in this case is necessary to reach this
                                                                                                                                                                                              remote area. Nitrofuran (nitrofurazone) is another effective
                                                                                                                                                                                              medication, also being absorbed through the skin, gills and into the
                                                                                                                                                                                              bloodstream. Maracyn II has also been said to be effective as well
                                                                                                                                                                                              as Melafix, although I can't see how this last treatment would work.
                                                                                                                                                                                              The disease does not seem to be contagious. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cynthia brennemann"
                                                                                                                                                                                              <brennewoman@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > What causes it? Which fish are susceptible, and how do you cure,
                                                                                                                                                                                              or
                                                                                                                                                                                              > prevent it?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11617 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: driftwood and other decorating /Heather Norton
                                                                                                                                                                                              Heather, Planting and aquascaping is more or less a personal
                                                                                                                                                                                              preference (like landscaping your yard), but for plants, I tend to go
                                                                                                                                                                                              with the tried and true old favorites, although there are many new
                                                                                                                                                                                              plants (with reddish tones) that are becoming increasingly popular.
                                                                                                                                                                                              You might start with placing some medium sized rocks in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              background, with some giant Sagittaria or medium-large Sagittaria
                                                                                                                                                                                              subulatta spaced behind the rocks, across the back. One or two small
                                                                                                                                                                                              pieces of driftwood helps as a accent and I always liked a nicely
                                                                                                                                                                                              proportioned Amazon Sword as a (off) center-piece. Crypts are nice
                                                                                                                                                                                              mid-range additions as is a stand of Hairgrass in front of a rock.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Micro-Sag would do well in the foreground, perhaps with some water
                                                                                                                                                                                              sprite or red-leafed Ludwigia off to the sides. Half of this comes
                                                                                                                                                                                              from an old but popular Innes shot of a finished aquarium (complete
                                                                                                                                                                                              with a pair of Angels w/young) found in his "Exotic Aquarium Fishes",
                                                                                                                                                                                              which he has used elsewhere. I've added a few things to it in my
                                                                                                                                                                                              description above, having used several similar set-ups; many
                                                                                                                                                                                              variations of this would work out fine -- brings the fish to the open-
                                                                                                                                                                                              space forefront, with a nice backdrop. Even had a stained glass
                                                                                                                                                                                              window made of such a scene (Innes Photo), for my hatchery, as it has
                                                                                                                                                                                              a nice balanced appearance. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hnorton1cogeco.ca"
                                                                                                                                                                                              <hnorton1@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I am redesigning my new thirty five tank for my angels and would
                                                                                                                                                                                              like any help in what to put in it that will show my angels of an
                                                                                                                                                                                              give them a nice show for people to see ?What breeds of plants my
                                                                                                                                                                                              Angels are pearl and I have one common Angel plus one pare of
                                                                                                                                                                                              Coredora cats and one ? snail but dont want any thing to injure my
                                                                                                                                                                                              Angels fins and bodies
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Heather Norton
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11618 From: Crazy4fids@aol.com Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: easy low light plants
                                                                                                                                                                                              As you all know, I am planning on setting up a 150 gallon show tank and have been asking numerous question, which you have all taken time to answer. 
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              I was originally planning on using all artificial plants.  But after doing some research, have decided to do a mix of live and plastic.  In the past I have used the little bulbs that grown into plants.   They did well for a while but then eventually lost their leaves and died.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              My tank comes with a single tube light.  I was planning on adding an additional twin tube as well as using the single.   In your opinion, is this too much light, or maybe I should just use the twin tube and dump the single?  Would floating plants do well, like duck weed or lettuce?  Remember, my tank is 48 long by 25 deep by 30 high.  I will be using two emperor 400 filters.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              I don't want to spend a lot of time setting up for the plants (no special substrate), so they need to be low maintenance.  I really like the amazon sword and the big leafed plants.  But I don't want to buy something and end up killing it because the conditions are not right for the plants that I choose.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              My fish will be angels, sunset or honey gouramis, a large school of black phantom tetras, and about eight cory juliis.  I believe that all these fish would enjoy some low growing grass/moss type plants.  Will these plants do well in my pea gravel substrate?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks again for all the help and information!
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Linda Amundsen
                                                                                                                                                                                              River Falls, WI
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11619 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Popeye
                                                                                                                                                                                              Prevention:  The best way to prevent any disease is to keep the water conditions as good as possible.  Nitrates should be under 50, with 20 being the best.  Ammonia and nitrite should be at 0 at all times.  pH should never change by more than 0.1, and that should be rare.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              But despite the fact that every site says that popeye is caused by bad water conditions, I don't buy it.  I had a female betta get popeye in my 29 gallon tank, and water conditions were as I described.  I think it is a case of one person says it, then everybody says it.  The only fish I've ever had get popeye was in good water.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Treatement:  a broad antibiotic.  I used fungus eliminator from Jungle as a dip, not as directed.  I added 1 tsp to a gallon of tank water in a large jar.  I moved the betta to that for a few minutes, and then moved her back to the tank.  I repeated that once a day for a few days.  She lived out the rest of her life with a very normal looking eye.  It was completely better after that.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Its faster filters, younger fishies, older tank stands, and more money!
                                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                              What causes it?  Which fish are susceptible, and how do you cure, or prevent it?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11620 From: Tricia Wilkerson Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: (no subject)
                                                                                                                                                                                              Morning all,
                                                                                                                                                                                              I am debating on whether to get a bubble wall or just go with an aeration stone for my 29 gal. tank.  I was a dumbo and forgot to consider the need for getting oxygen to all parts of the tank when I set it up so now I gotta work on that.  Right now the only thing it has running is the Tetra whisper pump/filter. 
                                                                                                                                                                                              I am not sure whether to go with the stone or the wall though, although I am leaning more toward the wall just b/c I think the wall of bubbles in the background would add to the visual pleasure as well as give more bubble area for everyone to play in.
                                                                                                                                                                                              TIA
                                                                                                                                                                                              '73, MM & MP
                                                                                                                                                                                              Tricia, KG6PNC
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11621 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re:
                                                                                                                                                                                              Contrary to what the makers of airstones and bubble walls want you to
                                                                                                                                                                                              think, they are completely unnecessary in a tank. As long as there is
                                                                                                                                                                                              enough surface agitation (which your filter should be providing already)
                                                                                                                                                                                              there will be enough oxygen. Do yourself a favor, and don't bother with
                                                                                                                                                                                              an airpump (unless you just really want to see bubbles in your aquarium).

                                                                                                                                                                                              My 150 gal. tank is extra deep, so in addition to a spray bar from my
                                                                                                                                                                                              canister filter, I had to put a powerhead in the opposite side of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              tank. With a tank your size, though, your filter should be plenty.

                                                                                                                                                                                              - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                                              Tricia Wilkerson wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > *Morning all,*
                                                                                                                                                                                              > *I am debating on whether to get a bubble wall or just go with an
                                                                                                                                                                                              > aeration stone for my 29 gal. tank. I was a dumbo and forgot to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > consider the need for getting oxygen to all parts of the tank when I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > set it up so now I gotta work on that. Right now the only thing it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > has running is the Tetra whisper pump/filter. *
                                                                                                                                                                                              > *I am not sure whether to go with the stone or the wall though,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > although I am leaning more toward the wall just b/c I think the wall
                                                                                                                                                                                              > of bubbles in the background would add to the visual pleasure as well
                                                                                                                                                                                              > as give more bubble area for everyone to play in.*
                                                                                                                                                                                              > *TIA*
                                                                                                                                                                                              > *'73, MM & MP
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Tricia, KG6PNC*
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                              > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                              > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11622 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Popeye
                                                                                                                                                                                              Tankies. It's only our bettas that get popeye. I don't understand
                                                                                                                                                                                              it. We have a bunch of fish, but the only ones to get this are the
                                                                                                                                                                                              bettas, even with good water conditions. I'll see if I can pick up the
                                                                                                                                                                                              medication today. It really looks awful.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11623 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: easy low light plants
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I don't want to spend a lot of time setting up for the plants (no
                                                                                                                                                                                              special
                                                                                                                                                                                              > substrate), so they need to be low maintenance. I really like the
                                                                                                                                                                                              amazon sword
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and the big leafed plants. But I don't want to buy something and
                                                                                                                                                                                              end up
                                                                                                                                                                                              > killing it because the conditions are not right for the plants that
                                                                                                                                                                                              I choose.

                                                                                                                                                                                              That's kind of like saying you don't want to provide the fish any
                                                                                                                                                                                              special water or food or filtration, but want them to thrive anyway.
                                                                                                                                                                                              It doesn't work like that. Other than floating plants, any plant you
                                                                                                                                                                                              get is going to need something besides just being dumped into gravel
                                                                                                                                                                                              and otherwise ignored. I don't have any special lights on our
                                                                                                                                                                                              aquariums, but they are both heavily planted, and do just fine with
                                                                                                                                                                                              the hood light that came with the tanks. I put in a substrate of
                                                                                                                                                                                              laterite, peatmoss, vermiculite and a little sand and old gravel, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              topped it with my regular gravel. It took all of ten minutes extra
                                                                                                                                                                                              work. Periodically, I'll buy the plant tabs and push it down around
                                                                                                                                                                                              the roots of a plant that is looking chlorotic or stressed, for a
                                                                                                                                                                                              little boost (I do that about once every six months) I have
                                                                                                                                                                                              variegated flag, java fern, sword plants, mondo grass, dwarf mondo
                                                                                                                                                                                              grass, hair grass, musa, and some miscellaneous large purple leaved
                                                                                                                                                                                              plants as well. They all thrive quite nicely. When they do okay,
                                                                                                                                                                                              then turn yellow and die without being eaten, it is because they
                                                                                                                                                                                              aren't getting the nutrients they need, iron, zinc,
                                                                                                                                                                                              magnesium...etc...that the gravel, especially if it is well cleaned
                                                                                                                                                                                              gravel, cannot provide.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11624 From: Crazy4fids@aol.com Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: easy low light plants
                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/18/2005 12:39:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, brennewoman@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                              I put in a substrate of
                                                                                                                                                                                              laterite, peatmoss, vermiculite and a little sand and old gravel, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              topped it with my regular gravel.  It took all of ten minutes extra
                                                                                                                                                                                              work. 
                                                                                                                                                                                              With all that extra substrate, how do you vacuum your tank?  And how do you know how much to put in it?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11625 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Popeye
                                                                                                                                                                                              We have one beta that has started getting this. His eyes pop up; I
                                                                                                                                                                                              change the water every so often, they go down, and then up again. I
                                                                                                                                                                                              can't tell what causes this. It looks SO uncomfortable. Yuck. But
                                                                                                                                                                                              it's a bit relieving to hear that other betas are doing this as well.

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                                                                                                                                                                                              www.ZainyZebra.com

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                                                                                                                                                                                              Sale!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                              On Behalf Of cynthia brennemann
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 12:23 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Popeye

                                                                                                                                                                                              Tankies. It's only our bettas that get popeye. I don't understand
                                                                                                                                                                                              it. We have a bunch of fish, but the only ones to get this are the
                                                                                                                                                                                              bettas, even with good water conditions. I'll see if I can pick up the
                                                                                                                                                                                              medication today. It really looks awful.






                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important
                                                                                                                                                                                              to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                                                                                              the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11626 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: easy low light plants
                                                                                                                                                                                              I've never vacuumed my tank. I am careful not to overfeed, and any
                                                                                                                                                                                              leftover stuff seems to get used by the snails, shrimp, plants, cories,
                                                                                                                                                                                              or algae suckers. Have about a half inch, to an inch of the substrate,
                                                                                                                                                                                              then put enough gravel over the top to cover it.

                                                                                                                                                                                              > With all that extra substrate, how do you vacuum your tank? And how
                                                                                                                                                                                              do you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > know how much to put in it?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11627 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: easy low light plants
                                                                                                                                                                                              what is the best substate to use for fresh water aquarium. i would like to have plants that are planted directly to the aquarium and not on a pot. i have anubias nana and anubias barteri on a plant pot. also can i use an undergravel filter if i use a substrate? also the undergravel filter don't seem to filter anything (as what i saw with my cousin's 2 gal mini aquarium), there is nothing to collect the dirt, not like the sponge or the power filter. also what plants would look good on an aquarium? i was going to set up a new aquarium with balloon ram, cockatoo cichlid, cherry barb, neon tetras, white cloud minnows, rummy nose tetras, on a 15 gal. i saw a 5 gal at the store that had 2 male cherry barbs, 2 cockatoo cichlids, 2 balloon rams, some neons, about 4 edlers livebearers in it with a diftwood that have plants growing on it already. they seem to be happy in it.

                                                                                                                                                                                              cynthia brennemann <brennewoman@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              I've never vacuumed my tank. I am careful not to overfeed, and any
                                                                                                                                                                                              leftover stuff seems to get used by the snails, shrimp, plants, cories,
                                                                                                                                                                                              or algae suckers.  Have about a half inch, to an inch of the substrate,
                                                                                                                                                                                              then put enough gravel over the top to cover it.

                                                                                                                                                                                              > With all that extra substrate, how do you vacuum your tank?  And how 
                                                                                                                                                                                              do you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > know how much to put in it?

                                                                                                                                                                                              > Linda




                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11628 From: Eric Miner Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Live food on-line?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello,

                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm looking for good places to order live food on-line. If seen a few
                                                                                                                                                                                              but would like recomendations from the group.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                                              Eric
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11629 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: easy low light plants
                                                                                                                                                                                              Cant say for certain but...
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               I have a 90 gallon tank with 17in of water height and 2x 4ft fluros (36w ea). My elodia was a light light green color so i decided to add some Seachem Flourish and some additional lighting over the space of 2 weeks.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              I think the additional light made the difference for me, i added another 4x 3ft fluros (30w ea) but unfortunatly one fluro is'nt working, i also only run the additonal lights for about 2 hours a day at this stage but i will increase this to about 10 hours light my other 2x 4ft fluros.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              All my bulbs are 10,000k except one of the 4ft ones which is a standard house fluro and slightly yellow in appearence.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Recon the additional lighting is required.
                                                                                                                                                                                              =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 12:29 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] easy low light plants

                                                                                                                                                                                              As you all know, I am planning on setting up a 150 gallon show tank and have been asking numerous question, which you have all taken time to answer. 
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              I was originally planning on using all artificial plants.  But after doing some research, have decided to do a mix of live and plastic.  In the past I have used the little bulbs that grown into plants.   They did well for a while but then eventually lost their leaves and died.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              My tank comes with a single tube light.  I was planning on adding an additional twin tube as well as using the single.   In your opinion, is this too much light, or maybe I should just use the twin tube and dump the single?  Would floating plants do well, like duck weed or lettuce?  Remember, my tank is 48 long by 25 deep by 30 high.  I will be using two emperor 400 filters.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              I don't want to spend a lot of time setting up for the plants (no special substrate), so they need to be low maintenance.  I really like the amazon sword and the big leafed plants.  But I don't want to buy something and end up killing it because the conditions are not right for the plants that I choose.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              My fish will be angels, sunset or honey gouramis, a large school of black phantom tetras, and about eight cory juliis.  I believe that all these fish would enjoy some low growing grass/moss type plants.  Will these plants do well in my pea gravel substrate?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks again for all the help and information!
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Linda Amundsen
                                                                                                                                                                                              River Falls, WI


                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11630 From: Tricia Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: White mold like substance on substrate....
                                                                                                                                                                                              I have been battling with this white mold like growth on the substrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              and its fiberous threadlike growths that is on the plants, furnishing,
                                                                                                                                                                                              and everthing else except the fish. I have a major ammonia problem at
                                                                                                                                                                                              the moment and have begun treating for that and am hoping that maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                              the ammonia problem is the culprit of that mold-like stuff. Any
                                                                                                                                                                                              suggestions?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              Tricia
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11631 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: easy low light plants
                                                                                                                                                                                              I honestly don't think there is one all-purpose best substrate. I use
                                                                                                                                                                                              what works for me, but others have substrates they swear by. I use
                                                                                                                                                                                              Laterite for the iron, peat moss (or chopped leaves) to help acidify
                                                                                                                                                                                              the tank (we have very soft water in this area), vermiculite to keep
                                                                                                                                                                                              the substrate from compacting, and I mix in a bit of sand and gravel to
                                                                                                                                                                                              make it go further. Make sure you soak any peat or chopped leaves over
                                                                                                                                                                                              night and rinse several times before mixing in with the rest of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              substrate. I wouldn't recommend an undergravel filter with a substrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              like that.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11632 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: easy low light plants
                                                                                                                                                                                              Fluro vs Halogen vs Metal Halide (HQI)

                                                                                                                                                                                              Which is the best lighting for a deep tank with lots of plants?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11633 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: easy low light plants
                                                                                                                                                                                              You don't want to use halogen lights. For a brief overview of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              different types of aquarium lighting, see
                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?acatid=287&aid=228 (or
                                                                                                                                                                                              http://tinyurl.com/aytez if that doesn't work).

                                                                                                                                                                                              - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                                              Nicolas Munro wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > Fluro vs Halogen vs Metal Halide (HQI)
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Which is the best lighting for a deep tank with lots of plants?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11634 From: Anne Date: 5/18/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re:
                                                                                                                                                                                              "I am not sure whether to go with the stone or the
                                                                                                                                                                                              wall though, although I am leaning more toward the
                                                                                                                                                                                              wall just b/c I think the wall of bubbles in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              background would add to the visual pleasure as well as
                                                                                                                                                                                              give more bubble area for everyone to play in.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I have a bubble wand in one of the tanks and love the
                                                                                                                                                                                              visual effect. I don't think it's necessary for oxygen
                                                                                                                                                                                              but the fish constantly swim thru the bubbles.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Anne



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11635 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/19/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: easy low light plants

                                                                                                                                                                                              For deep tank. HQI rules. Otherwise, Compact fluorescents are good enough for most purposes. Halogens are not of any use in an aquarium environment. They have no colour rendition (I mean very low) and have nothing in them for plants.

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              HQI must always be coupled with a fluorescent if you want better looks as they are so bright that they have a severe washout effect in one or the other of the colours.

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nicolas Munro
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: 19 May 2005 03:35
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: easy low light plants

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              Fluro vs Halogen vs Metal Halide (HQI)

                                                                                                                                                                                              Which is the best lighting for a deep tank with lots of plants?



                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11636 From: joequality1980 Date: 5/19/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New Tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              Try mosquito fish (Gambusia affinis). They're pretty hardy and
                                                                                                                                                                                              tolerant to any type of conditions-- it takes a lot to kill one of
                                                                                                                                                                                              them. They are livebearers, with behavior similar to guppies.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Another good reason is that they're free in California (and probably
                                                                                                                                                                                              other states): Mosquito Abatement centers can give you some; they are
                                                                                                                                                                                              also releaseed into many streams and lakes to for vector control, so
                                                                                                                                                                                              you might be able to catch them (always quarantine though). I used
                                                                                                                                                                                              some for cycling from a local pond center-- they gave them away since
                                                                                                                                                                                              there were so many.

                                                                                                                                                                                              > Any suggestions on hardy fish to cycle the 40gal? And
                                                                                                                                                                                              > how many?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks Anne
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11637 From: A.K. Date: 5/19/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: To bubble or not....
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Tricia;

                                                                                                                                                                                              I asked myself the same question when I set up my own 29 gal.
                                                                                                                                                                                              recently. I have a tetra whisper power filter on it and while it
                                                                                                                                                                                              seems to be doing a great job of aeration & filtration, I decided to
                                                                                                                                                                                              go with some bubbles as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I put a terra cotta flowerpot *3-4" mouth diameter* sideways in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              tank as a hiding place for my fish and placed the airstone inside it
                                                                                                                                                                                              *thru the back/drainage hole*. This conceals the ugly blue stone and
                                                                                                                                                                                              the bubbles are pushed out the large opening of the pot which is
                                                                                                                                                                                              visually attractive.

                                                                                                                                                                                              The fish don't mind the bubble cave, my glass cats have already
                                                                                                                                                                                              adopted the pot for their own use.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Hope this helps;
                                                                                                                                                                                              A.K.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11638 From: shutternow Date: 5/19/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: New Member.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi! I am new to this group.Recently I had 2 aquariums given to me - 5
                                                                                                                                                                                              gallon & 7 gallon with gravel( app.5 kg.),50 watt heater, and a
                                                                                                                                                                                              Whisper Power filter(5-15gallons).My question is "Is this filter
                                                                                                                                                                                              suitable for either of these aquariums? I am planning to get some
                                                                                                                                                                                              Veiltail Guppies or a Betta next month.Greatly appreciate any advice
                                                                                                                                                                                              you can give me.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Earl.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11639 From: fishyfishy95 Date: 5/19/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Having Problems with New Tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              I received a 30 gal tank from a friend who was moving. It had been
                                                                                                                                                                                              set up for many years before I got it, and hadn't had any problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                              There are 3 scissor tails, 1 gourmi, 1 pleco, 3 rasberry tetra, 1
                                                                                                                                                                                              tiger barb, 3 zebra danios, and 1 giant danio. Recently I have had
                                                                                                                                                                                              some troubling water readings. I use the Jungle quick strips to
                                                                                                                                                                                              test for ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, GH, KH, and pH. I also do a 25%
                                                                                                                                                                                              PWC about twice a month.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Here are my latest readings from the tank:
                                                                                                                                                                                              Ammonia – 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              Nitrate – 160
                                                                                                                                                                                              Nitrite – 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              GH – 150
                                                                                                                                                                                              KH – 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              PH – 6.2

                                                                                                                                                                                              I use my own tap water, here are the readings from the tap:
                                                                                                                                                                                              Ammonia – 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              Nitrate – 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              Nitrite – 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              GH – 75
                                                                                                                                                                                              KH – 120
                                                                                                                                                                                              PH – 7.2

                                                                                                                                                                                              So it appears that my GH is high, my KH is low, and my pH is low.
                                                                                                                                                                                              What should I be doing to help get these numbers better?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                              Tami
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11640 From: TankGurl Date: 5/19/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Having Problems with New Tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              On 5/19/05, fishyfishy95 <aves@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Here are my latest readings from the tank:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ammonia – 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Nitrate – 160
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Nitrite – 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              > GH – 150
                                                                                                                                                                                              > KH – 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              > PH – 6.2

                                                                                                                                                                                              > So it appears that my GH is high, my KH is low, and my pH is low.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > What should I be doing to help get these numbers better?

                                                                                                                                                                                              I'd be more worried about your nitrate. It should be in the 10-20
                                                                                                                                                                                              range. Unless the numbers on the test are vastly different than
                                                                                                                                                                                              regular test strips. A nitrate of 160 will kill your fish quickly.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Your PH is fine for the fish you keep. I'd do a 50% water change and
                                                                                                                                                                                              follow it up the next day by at least 30%.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Kelly
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11641 From: fishyfishy95 Date: 5/19/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Having Problems with New Tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I'd be more worried about your nitrate. It should be in the 10-20
                                                                                                                                                                                              > range. Unless the numbers on the test are vastly different than
                                                                                                                                                                                              > regular test strips. A nitrate of 160 will kill your fish quickly.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Your PH is fine for the fish you keep. I'd do a 50% water change
                                                                                                                                                                                              and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > follow it up the next day by at least 30%.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Kelly


                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks for your reply. On the test strips, it says that Nirtate NO3-
                                                                                                                                                                                              is in ppm (mg/L). This is listed as unsafe on the bottle. I did a
                                                                                                                                                                                              25% PWC yesterday (the numbers I listed were pre-PWC). The new
                                                                                                                                                                                              numbers are (just ran a test):

                                                                                                                                                                                              Ammonia – 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              Nitrate – 40 to 80 (closer to 80)
                                                                                                                                                                                              Nitrite – 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              GH – 75 to 150 (closer to 150)
                                                                                                                                                                                              KH – 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              PH – 6.8

                                                                                                                                                                                              The Nitrate has come down a lot, but what I can't understand is how
                                                                                                                                                                                              the water from my tap went from a GH of 75 to a GH of 150.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Also, the filter on the tank is the size for a 15/20 gallon, so I
                                                                                                                                                                                              think I should replace that and get a larger one. Will that help
                                                                                                                                                                                              with the nitrates? Any recommendations on brands?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                              Tami
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11642 From: joequality1980 Date: 5/19/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New Member.
                                                                                                                                                                                              If the filter is made for 5-15 gallons and your aquarium is 5 or 7
                                                                                                                                                                                              gallons, then yes it is.

                                                                                                                                                                                              > Whisper Power filter(5-15gallons).
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11643 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/19/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Having Problems with New Tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              Nitrate of 160 may not kill the fish. Certainly not the ones mentioned. But
                                                                                                                                                                                              yes, it is not good as it can pose some threat.
                                                                                                                                                                                              10-20 nitrates can many times be impossible to maintain. I aim for anything
                                                                                                                                                                                              less then 50 but 80 does not put me into panic mode either. Large water
                                                                                                                                                                                              changes is the only idea to bring them down and I agree to it 100% :)

                                                                                                                                                                                              KH of 0 is explainable by the low PH but this is not good. KH can be
                                                                                                                                                                                              increased by adding a bit of baking soda/sodium bicarbonate etc. or you can
                                                                                                                                                                                              also add a bag of coral gravel or crushed sea shells in the filter to help
                                                                                                                                                                                              it maintain a stable KH. It will obviously increase the PH a bit but that is
                                                                                                                                                                                              what the stability does.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Nim


                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of TankGurl
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: 19 May 2005 22:23
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Having Problems with New Tank

                                                                                                                                                                                              On 5/19/05, fishyfishy95 <aves@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Here are my latest readings from the tank:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ammonia - 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Nitrate - 160
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Nitrite - 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              > GH - 150
                                                                                                                                                                                              > KH - 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              > PH - 6.2

                                                                                                                                                                                              > So it appears that my GH is high, my KH is low, and my pH is low.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > What should I be doing to help get these numbers better?

                                                                                                                                                                                              I'd be more worried about your nitrate. It should be in the 10-20
                                                                                                                                                                                              range. Unless the numbers on the test are vastly different than
                                                                                                                                                                                              regular test strips. A nitrate of 160 will kill your fish quickly.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Your PH is fine for the fish you keep. I'd do a 50% water change and
                                                                                                                                                                                              follow it up the next day by at least 30%.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Kelly



                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                              the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                              subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                              in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11644 From: fishyfishy95 Date: 5/19/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Having Problems with New Tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Nitrate of 160 may not kill the fish. Certainly not the ones
                                                                                                                                                                                              mentioned. But
                                                                                                                                                                                              > yes, it is not good as it can pose some threat.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > 10-20 nitrates can many times be impossible to maintain. I aim for
                                                                                                                                                                                              anything
                                                                                                                                                                                              > less then 50 but 80 does not put me into panic mode either. Large
                                                                                                                                                                                              water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > changes is the only idea to bring them down and I agree to it
                                                                                                                                                                                              100% :)
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > KH of 0 is explainable by the low PH but this is not good. KH can
                                                                                                                                                                                              be
                                                                                                                                                                                              > increased by adding a bit of baking soda/sodium bicarbonate etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                              or you can
                                                                                                                                                                                              > also add a bag of coral gravel or crushed sea shells in the filter
                                                                                                                                                                                              to help
                                                                                                                                                                                              > it maintain a stable KH. It will obviously increase the PH a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                              but that is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > what the stability does.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thank you for the suggestions. How much is a "bit" of baking soda
                                                                                                                                                                                              for a 30 gallon tank? I'm assuming that by having a KH of 0 that
                                                                                                                                                                                              means that my water has no buffering capability? Also, what do you
                                                                                                                                                                                              think about my numbers compared to the tap water. It appears that
                                                                                                                                                                                              my tap water has some KH in it, but after cycling through my tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              for a day, the tank has no KH. What's up with that?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                              Tami
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11645 From: Lauri Date: 5/19/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Midas Coloration - update
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Ray,

                                                                                                                                                                                              My pc has been down, but I wanted to let you know that
                                                                                                                                                                                              the discolored scales on my Midas only lasted for about a week,
                                                                                                                                                                                              then suddenly they were gone, and she is back to her gorgeous
                                                                                                                                                                                              orange.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I enjoyed your discussion, and the resulting research it led
                                                                                                                                                                                              me to!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Lauri
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11646 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/19/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Having Problems with New Tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              Kelly,

                                                                                                                                                                                              A nitrate reading of 160 will NOT kill your fish. Freshwater fish are rather
                                                                                                                                                                                              tolerant of nitrate levels, though a high level of nitrate is suspect in
                                                                                                                                                                                              some species for causing what is known as hole-in-the-head disease (a
                                                                                                                                                                                              pitting around the head area of the fish) and lateral line erosion, similar
                                                                                                                                                                                              to HITH, but affecting the lateral line area. While I may wonder what is
                                                                                                                                                                                              causing the high readings, and perhaps start a lackadaisical search into the
                                                                                                                                                                                              cause, I'd not be overly concerned, unless I owned fish that seem to be
                                                                                                                                                                                              prone to the above mentioned disorders.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Now, if we were talking a marine tank, that would be another story, since
                                                                                                                                                                                              marine organisms seem to be adversely affected by a minimal level of
                                                                                                                                                                                              nitrate.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Regular water changes should help to keep nitrates in check, as well as
                                                                                                                                                                                              keeping plants in the aquarium. There are also tools that have been
                                                                                                                                                                                              developed to help reduce the amount of nitrate in check as well, but these
                                                                                                                                                                                              filters require careful setup and maintenance. They utilize anaerobic
                                                                                                                                                                                              bacteria to remove the nitrate. I've never used one, nor known any one who
                                                                                                                                                                                              has, but I do know they are available, and they do claim to lower nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              levels.

                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of TankGurl
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 5:23 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Having Problems with New Tank

                                                                                                                                                                                              On 5/19/05, fishyfishy95 <aves@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Here are my latest readings from the tank:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ammonia - 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Nitrate - 160
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Nitrite - 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              > GH - 150
                                                                                                                                                                                              > KH - 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              > PH - 6.2

                                                                                                                                                                                              > So it appears that my GH is high, my KH is low, and my pH is low.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > What should I be doing to help get these numbers better?

                                                                                                                                                                                              I'd be more worried about your nitrate. It should be in the 10-20
                                                                                                                                                                                              range. Unless the numbers on the test are vastly different than
                                                                                                                                                                                              regular test strips. A nitrate of 160 will kill your fish quickly.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Your PH is fine for the fish you keep. I'd do a 50% water change and
                                                                                                                                                                                              follow it up the next day by at least 30%.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Kelly
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11647 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/19/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                                  From what I've been able to find, the legal limit for nitrates in tap water is between 10 and 45ppm because they can cause all kinds of problems, especially in babies.  If that is the most that is legal for humans, and fish are more exposed and likely to have problems from water contaminants, how can it be said that nitrates over 100 are not going to kill a fish.  Maybe they won't die now, but if nitrates are dangerous to humans at those levels, wont they eventually lead to the death of the fish if exposed to them for too long.  
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                  After all, one of the foundations of fishkeeping is that fish are extremely sensitive to the chemicals in their water.  How can we ignore that for nitrates?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                              -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                              Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11648 From: paul helms Date: 5/19/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              it is not that they are sensitive to chemicals in
                                                                                                                                                                                              their water, but rather that they are sensitive to
                                                                                                                                                                                              suddden changes intheir water. the wild fish in many
                                                                                                                                                                                              small streams are living in run off form streets,
                                                                                                                                                                                              factories, and sewers. this water is extremely
                                                                                                                                                                                              caustic, but they have become accustomed to ist slowly
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- "Patrick, AAFG" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > From what I've been able to find, the legal
                                                                                                                                                                                              > limit for nitrates in tap
                                                                                                                                                                                              > water is between 10 and 45ppm because they can cause
                                                                                                                                                                                              > all kinds of problems,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > especially in babies. If that is the most that is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > legal for humans, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish are more exposed and likely to have problems
                                                                                                                                                                                              > from water contaminants,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > how can it be said that nitrates over 100 are not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > going to kill a fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Maybe they won't die now, but if nitrates are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > dangerous to humans at those
                                                                                                                                                                                              > levels, wont they eventually lead to the death of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the fish if exposed to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > them for too long.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > After all, one of the foundations of fishkeeping
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is that fish are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > extremely sensitive to the chemicals in their water.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > How can we ignore that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > for nitrates?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > "Now this is not the end. It is not even the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > beginning of the end. But it is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                              > -Winston Churchill



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11649 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/19/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Midas Coloration - update
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Lauri, As I said, sometimes these brown blotches appear (especially
                                                                                                                                                                                              in juveniles) only to disappear at a later date. The timing of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              duration of these brown blotches can vary greatly; I'm glad to see the
                                                                                                                                                                                              off-colored scales on your Midas did not last very long at all. She's
                                                                                                                                                                                              going to be a very nice looking fish as she gets older (and bigger). I
                                                                                                                                                                                              too enjoyed talking with you about your fish, and was especially glad
                                                                                                                                                                                              that I could put your mind at ease in letting you know this was not a
                                                                                                                                                                                              disease, but just a color change and very possibly (but more so in
                                                                                                                                                                                              males) a temporary condition at that. I trust you had fun researching
                                                                                                                                                                                              tid-bits on the Red Devils, and good to hear from you again. Best
                                                                                                                                                                                              Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lauri" <aktahi@3...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hi Ray,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > My pc has been down, but I wanted to let you know that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the discolored scales on my Midas only lasted for about a week,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > then suddenly they were gone, and she is back to her gorgeous
                                                                                                                                                                                              > orange.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I enjoyed your discussion, and the resulting research it led
                                                                                                                                                                                              > me to!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Lauri
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11650 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick,

                                                                                                                                                                                              The EPA has set, for drinking water, a Maximum Contaminant Level of 10 ppm
                                                                                                                                                                                              nitrate for drinking water. Their rational seems to be that excessive
                                                                                                                                                                                              amounts of nitrate can affect an infant's health, however, there is no
                                                                                                                                                                                              statement as to what is considered excessive. The MCL was set at 10 ppm
                                                                                                                                                                                              because the EPA believes this to be the lowest level that can be achieved
                                                                                                                                                                                              with current technology, not that anything above this level is harmful. This
                                                                                                                                                                                              is the way the EPA, and other government agencies work, rather than
                                                                                                                                                                                              following any real science on the topic in question.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I don't have time right now to try to track down the allowable limits for
                                                                                                                                                                                              humans. However, just because it may be bad for you and me, does not mean it
                                                                                                                                                                                              will be bad for another species. Take, for example, mercury levels in fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              It does not seem to adversely affect the fish populations, but, eating the
                                                                                                                                                                                              fish that are contaminated with mercury can lead to adverse affects in
                                                                                                                                                                                              humans. I would suspect that further research into that topic would reveal a
                                                                                                                                                                                              level of contamination that would adversely affect the fish, but both in
                                                                                                                                                                                              fish and humans, this is a cumulative effect.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Now, does this mean we should ignore nitrate levels in our aquariums? Of
                                                                                                                                                                                              course not. However, the panic I see in some posts here about nitrate levels
                                                                                                                                                                                              in the water are simply uncalled for. Simple regular water changes should
                                                                                                                                                                                              keep levels in check. Plants in the aquarium will also help. Checking your
                                                                                                                                                                                              tap water vs. the published level from your water supplier. If the level
                                                                                                                                                                                              differs by a large amount, then your test kit is suspect. For those of you
                                                                                                                                                                                              who have your own water supply (read on well water), it may be wise to ship
                                                                                                                                                                                              off a sample of your water, from time to time, to have it tested by a
                                                                                                                                                                                              respected testing company, and then you can use those figures as a
                                                                                                                                                                                              comparison to your tests.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Yes, high nitrate levels are suspect in some fish conditions, as I mentioned
                                                                                                                                                                                              in an earlier post, and we are generally talking about very high levels of
                                                                                                                                                                                              nitrate. And, for most of the species involved, their diet will generally
                                                                                                                                                                                              lead to the high nitrate levels if one does not diligently work to keep them
                                                                                                                                                                                              in check. Still no need to panic.

                                                                                                                                                                                              If you want to panic about nitrate, wait until your levels reach more than
                                                                                                                                                                                              400--then panic.

                                                                                                                                                                                              BTW, if a mouse drinks more than 100 times the amount of diet soda that a
                                                                                                                                                                                              normal person can be expected to consume in a short period of time, bad
                                                                                                                                                                                              things happen to that mouse. Likely, if you drank as much diet soda as that
                                                                                                                                                                                              mouse, bad things would happen to you as well, even if you have not been
                                                                                                                                                                                              bred to have certain susceptibilities, as the mice have.

                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Patrick, AAFG
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 11:31 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question


                                                                                                                                                                                              From what I've been able to find, the legal limit for nitrates in tap
                                                                                                                                                                                              water is between 10 and 45ppm because they can cause all kinds of problems,
                                                                                                                                                                                              especially in babies. If that is the most that is legal for humans, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              fish are more exposed and likely to have problems from water contaminants,
                                                                                                                                                                                              how can it be said that nitrates over 100 are not going to kill a fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Maybe they won't die now, but if nitrates are dangerous to humans at those
                                                                                                                                                                                              levels, wont they eventually lead to the death of the fish if exposed to
                                                                                                                                                                                              them for too long.

                                                                                                                                                                                              After all, one of the foundations of fishkeeping is that fish are
                                                                                                                                                                                              extremely sensitive to the chemicals in their water. How can we ignore that
                                                                                                                                                                                              for nitrates?


                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.

                                                                                                                                                                                              "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it
                                                                                                                                                                                              is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                              -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11651 From: paul helms Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              by drinking water do you mean purified water? i
                                                                                                                                                                                              assume so, as patrick is correct in what he stated
                                                                                                                                                                                              about tap water. mine comes out between 35 and 40 on
                                                                                                                                                                                              nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Patrick,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > The EPA has set, for drinking water, a Maximum
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Contaminant Level of 10 ppm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > nitrate for drinking water. Their rational seems to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > be that excessive
                                                                                                                                                                                              > amounts of nitrate can affect an infant's health,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > however, there is no
                                                                                                                                                                                              > statement as to what is considered excessive. The
                                                                                                                                                                                              > MCL was set at 10 ppm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > because the EPA believes this to be the lowest level
                                                                                                                                                                                              > that can be achieved
                                                                                                                                                                                              > with current technology, not that anything above
                                                                                                                                                                                              > this level is harmful. This
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is the way the EPA, and other government agencies
                                                                                                                                                                                              > work, rather than
                                                                                                                                                                                              > following any real science on the topic in question.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I don't have time right now to try to track down the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > allowable limits for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > humans. However, just because it may be bad for you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and me, does not mean it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > will be bad for another species. Take, for example,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > mercury levels in fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > It does not seem to adversely affect the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              > populations, but, eating the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish that are contaminated with mercury can lead to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > adverse affects in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > humans. I would suspect that further research into
                                                                                                                                                                                              > that topic would reveal a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > level of contamination that would adversely affect
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the fish, but both in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish and humans, this is a cumulative effect.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Now, does this mean we should ignore nitrate levels
                                                                                                                                                                                              > in our aquariums? Of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > course not. However, the panic I see in some posts
                                                                                                                                                                                              > here about nitrate levels
                                                                                                                                                                                              > in the water are simply uncalled for. Simple regular
                                                                                                                                                                                              > water changes should
                                                                                                                                                                                              > keep levels in check. Plants in the aquarium will
                                                                                                                                                                                              > also help. Checking your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > tap water vs. the published level from your water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > supplier. If the level
                                                                                                                                                                                              > differs by a large amount, then your test kit is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > suspect. For those of you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > who have your own water supply (read on well water),
                                                                                                                                                                                              > it may be wise to ship
                                                                                                                                                                                              > off a sample of your water, from time to time, to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have it tested by a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > respected testing company, and then you can use
                                                                                                                                                                                              > those figures as a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > comparison to your tests.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yes, high nitrate levels are suspect in some fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              > conditions, as I mentioned
                                                                                                                                                                                              > in an earlier post, and we are generally talking
                                                                                                                                                                                              > about very high levels of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > nitrate. And, for most of the species involved,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > their diet will generally
                                                                                                                                                                                              > lead to the high nitrate levels if one does not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > diligently work to keep them
                                                                                                                                                                                              > in check. Still no need to panic.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > If you want to panic about nitrate, wait until your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > levels reach more than
                                                                                                                                                                                              > 400--then panic.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > BTW, if a mouse drinks more than 100 times the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > amount of diet soda that a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > normal person can be expected to consume in a short
                                                                                                                                                                                              > period of time, bad
                                                                                                                                                                                              > things happen to that mouse. Likely, if you drank as
                                                                                                                                                                                              > much diet soda as that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > mouse, bad things would happen to you as well, even
                                                                                                                                                                                              > if you have not been
                                                                                                                                                                                              > bred to have certain susceptibilities, as the mice
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of Patrick, AAFG
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 11:31 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > From what I've been able to find, the legal
                                                                                                                                                                                              > limit for nitrates in tap
                                                                                                                                                                                              > water is between 10 and 45ppm because they can cause
                                                                                                                                                                                              > all kinds of problems,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > especially in babies. If that is the most that is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > legal for humans, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish are more exposed and likely to have problems
                                                                                                                                                                                              > from water contaminants,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > how can it be said that nitrates over 100 are not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > going to kill a fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Maybe they won't die now, but if nitrates are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > dangerous to humans at those
                                                                                                                                                                                              > levels, wont they eventually lead to the death of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the fish if exposed to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > them for too long.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > After all, one of the foundations of fishkeeping
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is that fish are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > extremely sensitive to the chemicals in their water.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > How can we ignore that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > for nitrates?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > "Now this is not the end. It is not even the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > beginning of the end. But it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                              > -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11652 From: kb1dva Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: tank placement

                                                                                                                                                                                              I think I’ve heard that aquariums should be kept away from cold and drafts. I.e. not near windows and doors, is this true I live in Boston winter is cold here. Is there an easy way to do water changes, please remember I have a 90 gallon tank. I have a siphon/vacuum but there has to be an easier way. I have only been at this since March! –I have a lot to learn   Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11653 From: anubias Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: nitrates
                                                                                                                                                                                              Right on, Steve!

                                                                                                                                                                                              I truly believe that one of the reasons many people fail in this
                                                                                                                                                                                              hobby is an overemphasis on water chemistry. The information in most
                                                                                                                                                                                              test kits leads the reader to believe that the end of the world is
                                                                                                                                                                                              nigh when ammonia or nitrite levels are high AS THEY SHOULD BE while
                                                                                                                                                                                              a tank is cycling. This leads to a downward spiral of adding
                                                                                                                                                                                              chemicals and excessive water changes, which only prolong the
                                                                                                                                                                                              completion of the nitrogen cycle and further stress the fish. And
                                                                                                                                                                                              then, just when the tank may finally be through the cycle and
                                                                                                                                                                                              everything is stabilized, too many people think their pH isn't where
                                                                                                                                                                                              it should be, so they jump haphazardly onto the pH rollercoaster,
                                                                                                                                                                                              i.e. they add buffer, and the pH goes to where they want it to be,
                                                                                                                                                                                              but then the buffer reaches its buffering capacity and the pH returns
                                                                                                                                                                                              to where it was before, only to be followed by the addition of more
                                                                                                                                                                                              buffer, and a continuation of the roller coaster ride for the fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              If you are buying your fish from a local dealer, the chances are very
                                                                                                                                                                                              high that they will already be acclimated to the pH and hardness
                                                                                                                                                                                              levels present in your tank so you are far better off to leave them
                                                                                                                                                                                              alone. After 35 years of keeping fish and plants and spawning many
                                                                                                                                                                                              varieties of fish, it's my opinion that, with the exception of
                                                                                                                                                                                              attempting to breed a small number of fish that the average hobbyist
                                                                                                                                                                                              will not be keeping, pH is irrelevant. Hardness is more significant,
                                                                                                                                                                                              but again only when attempting to breed certain delicate species.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Nitrate has to be in the range of 300+ ppm for an extended period of
                                                                                                                                                                                              time before it becomes a problem for freshwater or marine fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              (marine inverts are much more sensitive). Set the tank up, cycle it
                                                                                                                                                                                              with the hardiest fish that you plan to keep, and do regular partial
                                                                                                                                                                                              water changes (changing water on a regular, consistent schedule is
                                                                                                                                                                                              more important than how much is changed at a time) after it has
                                                                                                                                                                                              completed the nitrogen cycle, don't overfeed and most people will be
                                                                                                                                                                                              successful and will stay in the hobby. Anyway, enough rambling for
                                                                                                                                                                                              now but that's my opinion and you are all free to disagree...
                                                                                                                                                                                              Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11654 From: anubias Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: low light plants
                                                                                                                                                                                              A number of plants will do well in low light, but all will benefit
                                                                                                                                                                                              from the addition of a gravel additive high in iron as well as regular
                                                                                                                                                                                              additions of liquid fertilizer.
                                                                                                                                                                                              I would suggest plants of the genera Cryptocoryne, Anubias and
                                                                                                                                                                                              Aponogeton as well as red Thai lilies (Nymphaea rubra) dwarf lilies
                                                                                                                                                                                              (N. stellata) and tiger lotus (N. maculata). This will provide a good
                                                                                                                                                                                              assortment of leaf shapes, colors and sizes. There are several
                                                                                                                                                                                              important factors to success with these plants. Crypts should be
                                                                                                                                                                                              disturbed as little as possible. They may drop most or all of their
                                                                                                                                                                                              leaves after being introduced to the tank but that is just the way of
                                                                                                                                                                                              Crypts and they will come back. It takes a planting of Crypts a full
                                                                                                                                                                                              year to truly come into their own. Anubias rhizomes should never be
                                                                                                                                                                                              buried. Aponogetons and Nymphaeas will go dormant and drop most or
                                                                                                                                                                                              all of their leaves from time to time. Their ability to grow again is
                                                                                                                                                                                              highly dependent on the iron content of the substrate. High levels of
                                                                                                                                                                                              iron in the substrate will also allow them to grow for longer lengths
                                                                                                                                                                                              of time between their dormant periods.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11655 From: Eric Miner Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: 'Milky' water in new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello,

                                                                                                                                                                                              I set up my first tank yesterday. The water was nice and clear, but
                                                                                                                                                                                              once plantes were added it became slightly milky. I've had the filter
                                                                                                                                                                                              (Marineland Penguin 350) running for 24 hr. but the milkyness is still
                                                                                                                                                                                              there. Is this common? Will it clear up? Did I do something wrong with
                                                                                                                                                                                              the water conditioner I added? Am I just over reacting.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks

                                                                                                                                                                                              Eric
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11656 From: fuzzybpebble Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: update on my tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              Just thought I would post an update on my tanks. I have 2 Bettas
                                                                                                                                                                                              now, 1 male and 1 female, separate tanks. Got the female at my
                                                                                                                                                                                              LPS. Also while I was there got a fancy guppy, but he died with in
                                                                                                                                                                                              24 hours. He was quarintined when I got home, so he did not see the
                                                                                                                                                                                              big tank. As of yesterday morning I had 7 guppies, with 5 of them
                                                                                                                                                                                              being part of the orginal 8 that I got. Last night I saw things
                                                                                                                                                                                              darting around my tank. I had added some Hornwort to the tank for
                                                                                                                                                                                              plant coverage. I took out the plants and found 4 baby guppies. So,
                                                                                                                                                                                              I now have 13 fish total. My female guppies like to birth in the 10
                                                                                                                                                                                              gallon tank and will not birth in the breeder or a separate tank. I
                                                                                                                                                                                              have tried and they do not do it. The Babies are in a fish bowl.
                                                                                                                                                                                              The 2 4 weekers are in another fish bowl, the 5 adults have the 10
                                                                                                                                                                                              and each Betta has a tank. This is getting to be fun to keep track
                                                                                                                                                                                              of. Everyone seems to be doing well. I separated so that the
                                                                                                                                                                                              little ones can get enough to eat.

                                                                                                                                                                                              That is all that is going on in my fish world right now. I do have
                                                                                                                                                                                              a couple of mommy guppies that look ready to birth. They are getting
                                                                                                                                                                                              front heavy. But I will let them birth the way they like to do it.
                                                                                                                                                                                              I have plant coverage for the babies when they have them and then
                                                                                                                                                                                              will move the babies to my nursery tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                              My nursery tank being a fish bowl that has the latest fish in them.

                                                                                                                                                                                              That is all for now.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Bethany
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11657 From: Dawana B Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior

                                                                                                                                                                                              This is really late on this, but I would actually do more than blanche the zucchini for the otos.  I actually boil mine for 3-4 minutes (from frozen, already sliced) and then let it cool before I put it in the tank.  I anchor the slices with weights and the otos and my Amano shrimp kill 3 slices in about 2 days.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I hope they work out.  Otos are cool!

                                                                                                                                                                                              -Dawana




                                                                                                                                                                                              >From: Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] weird oto/angel behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                              >Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 10:38:12 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >oh, i see. well, i'm going to try a little piece of blanched zucchini to see if that makes them
                                                                                                                                                                                              >stop. if not, then they're history. well not history in the sense that i'd flush them, but,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >they'll be returned to the lfs for some different ones =) thanks for the advice!
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >--- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11658 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: 'Milky' water in new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              did you not let the tank cycle first.. should have from 3 to 7 days varying on how quickly it does it and your water conditions.. did the store not warn you of this... I know each time I buy fish they even tell me about that... sounds like the milky stuff is a bacteria bloom it should clear away in 3 days.. not sure if the fish will survive that time though... next time you start up a tank reading a lot of messages on here would be of mass help there are also numerous books out there to help as well.. I am at work and don't have any off the top of my mind but I am sure others can help you with that... I wanted to give you some guidance as it is Friday and often quiet on the weekend.. I wouldn't do anything I would just wait it out not much you can do. that I know off.. Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello,

                                                                                                                                                                                              I set up my first tank yesterday. The water was nice and clear, but
                                                                                                                                                                                              once plantes were added it became slightly milky. I've had the filter
                                                                                                                                                                                              (Marineland Penguin 350) running for 24 hr. but the milkyness is still
                                                                                                                                                                                              there. Is this common? Will it clear up? Did I do something wrong with
                                                                                                                                                                                              the water conditioner I added? Am I just over reacting.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks

                                                                                                                                                                                              Eric
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11659 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: weird oto/angel behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                              i've been putting small slices of blanched zucchini (i get fresh from the grocery store and just
                                                                                                                                                                                              slice and blanch) and so far the silly otos have been leaving the angel alone. phew! i am really
                                                                                                                                                                                              glad because i didn't want to get rid of either of the 2 fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Dawana B <dawanalea@...> wrote:


                                                                                                                                                                                              ---------------------------------

                                                                                                                                                                                              This is really late on this, but I would actually do more than blanche the zucchini for the otos.
                                                                                                                                                                                              I actually boil mine for 3-4 minutes (from frozen, already sliced) and then let it cool before I
                                                                                                                                                                                              put it in the tank. I anchor the slices with weights and the otos and my Amano shrimp kill 3
                                                                                                                                                                                              slices in about 2 days.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I hope they work out. Otos are cool!

                                                                                                                                                                                              -Dawana





                                                                                                                                                                                              >From: Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] weird oto/angel behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                              >Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 10:38:12 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >oh, i see. well, i'm going to try a little piece of blanched zucchini to see if that makes them
                                                                                                                                                                                              >stop. if not, then they're history. well not history in the sense that i'd flush them, but,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >they'll be returned to the lfs for some different ones =) thanks for the advice!
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >--- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >




                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Valeen Robertson Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                              I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11660 From: Eric Miner Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: 'Milky' water in new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              Shannon,

                                                                                                                                                                                              I plan on doing a fishless cycle begining tomorrow by adding a lot of
                                                                                                                                                                                              Bio-Spera and feeding it ammonia, there are no fish in the tank right
                                                                                                                                                                                              now just plants. My question is what is the causing the milky
                                                                                                                                                                                              apperance of the water and will it go away.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Eric
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11661 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
                                                                                                                                                                                              OK I did a little checking and some math. I have 4 watts per gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                                              I'd like suggestions on plants that will thrive in this environment. My
                                                                                                                                                                                              knowledge is limited with standard LFS plants




                                                                                                                                                                                              At 10:37 PM 5/9/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >10,000k is teh amount of output, not the wattage of
                                                                                                                                                                                              >the bulb. it is a kelvin measure. you can get a
                                                                                                                                                                                              >10,000 k bulb anywhere from 11 to 48 inches easily.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >--- r_ohle@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Anyone know how many watts is a 10K bulb?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11662 From: Charlene Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Hi again I want to find something out.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi I like to know what kind of Reverse Osmosis Water System soon I
                                                                                                                                                                                              got. I have a 55 ga salt water tank. And where to put it. A fried told
                                                                                                                                                                                              me I can hook Water System to the tank. I need up for this one. I am
                                                                                                                                                                                              trying to set my tank up. Thank you for helping me. Charlene
                                                                                                                                                                                              muffin4494@...
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11663 From: Charlene Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Hi again I want to find something out.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Can I buy live sand and live rock be for I set my tank up. If I can
                                                                                                                                                                                              how can I keep them live til I set up my tank? And all so How mush
                                                                                                                                                                                              sound I got for my 55 ga tank. I am all so thinking to make my live
                                                                                                                                                                                              rock. Can you all tell me how I can do that to. Thank you again
                                                                                                                                                                                              Charlene muffin4494@...
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11664 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: 'Milky' water in new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              yea before I said it was a bacteria bloom just caused by the new water no good bacteria yet to kill the bad stuff...and I said it should be gone in about 3 days or so...  that is all part of doing the fishless cycle.. I know when I have done my cycles I have never added anything but stress coat.. is it necessary to add all the extras... Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                              Shannon,

                                                                                                                                                                                              I plan on doing a fishless cycle begining tomorrow by adding a lot of
                                                                                                                                                                                              Bio-Spera and feeding it ammonia, there are no fish in the tank right
                                                                                                                                                                                              now just plants. My question is what is the causing the milky
                                                                                                                                                                                              apperance of the water and will it go away.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Eric
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11665 From: Charlene Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Hi again I want to find something out.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi What does UV Sterilizer do for the fish tank? And should I got
                                                                                                                                                                                              this to for my saltwater tank. Thank you Charlene muffin4494@...
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11666 From: paul helms Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Hi again I want to find something out.
                                                                                                                                                                                              it kills al free floating bacteria, parasites and
                                                                                                                                                                                              algae
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Charlene <muffin4494@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hi What does UV Sterilizer do for the fish tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > And should I got
                                                                                                                                                                                              > this to for my saltwater tank. Thank you Charlene
                                                                                                                                                                                              > muffin4494@...
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11667 From: paul helms Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Hi again I want to find something out.
                                                                                                                                                                                              new live sand is in sealed bags which have a shelf
                                                                                                                                                                                              life of 1 year, rock would have to be kept in
                                                                                                                                                                                              saltwater (buckets) with a pump to move water
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Charlene <muffin4494@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hi Can I buy live sand and live rock be for I set
                                                                                                                                                                                              > my tank up. If I can
                                                                                                                                                                                              > how can I keep them live til I set up my tank? And
                                                                                                                                                                                              > all so How mush
                                                                                                                                                                                              > sound I got for my 55 ga tank. I am all so thinking
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to make my live
                                                                                                                                                                                              > rock. Can you all tell me how I can do that to.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thank you again
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Charlene muffin4494@...
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11668 From: paul helms Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: 'Milky' water in new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              it will clear. the tank will take 5 weeks to cycle
                                                                                                                                                                                              anyway
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Eric Miner <eminer1254@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I set up my first tank yesterday. The water was nice
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and clear, but
                                                                                                                                                                                              > once plantes were added it became slightly milky.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I've had the filter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > (Marineland Penguin 350) running for 24 hr. but the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > milkyness is still
                                                                                                                                                                                              > there. Is this common? Will it clear up? Did I do
                                                                                                                                                                                              > something wrong with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the water conditioner I added? Am I just over
                                                                                                                                                                                              > reacting.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Eric
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11669 From: Crazy4fids@aol.com Date: 5/20/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: low light plants
                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/20/2005 12:59:54 P.M. Central Standard Time, anubias@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                              A number of plants will do well in low light, but all will benefit
                                                                                                                                                                                              from the addition of a gravel additive high in iron as well as regular
                                                                                                                                                                                              additions of liquid fertilizer. 
                                                                                                                                                                                              Isn't this harmful to the fish?  How do you add iron and fertilizer to the substrate without polluting your water?  Sorry if these are dumb questions.  I really like the look of a well planted aquarium, but maybe I need to do more research and start out with a 20 gallon tank and see if I do well with that?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                              River Falls, WI
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11670 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: low light plants

                                                                                                                                                                                              Lol. You get aquarium based liquid fertilizers in aquarium shops. These are not the compost or other organic fertz we using in terrestrial plants.

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Crazy4fids@...
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: 21 May 2005 03:08
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re: low light plants

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/20/2005 12:59:54 P.M. Central Standard Time, anubias@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                              A number of plants will do well in low light, but all will benefit
                                                                                                                                                                                              from the addition of a gravel additive high in iron as well as regular
                                                                                                                                                                                              additions of liquid fertilizer. 

                                                                                                                                                                                              Isn't this harmful to the fish?  How do you add iron and fertilizer to the substrate without polluting your water?  Sorry if these are dumb questions.  I really like the look of a well planted aquarium, but maybe I need to do more research and start out with a 20 gallon tank and see if I do well with that?

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              Linda

                                                                                                                                                                                              River Falls, WI



                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11671 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Small White Specks on my Heater
                                                                                                                                                                                              I just noticed small, white specks on my aquarium heater.  I don't see them anywhere else.  They're the size of a pin head and are smooth.  What could they be?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              I have snails, frogs, zebra danios, a guppy, von rio tetras, cories, lemon tetras, a columbian shark, a violet goby and two upside down catfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                              Angela
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11672 From: Crazy4fids@aol.com Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: low light plants
                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/21/2005 3:35:07 A.M. Central Standard Time, nimmat4@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                              Lol. You get aquarium based liquid fertilizers in aquarium shops. These are not the compost or other organic fertz we using in terrestrial plants.

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              A number of plants will do well in low light, but all will benefit
                                                                                                                                                                                              from the addition of a gravel additive high in iron as well as regular
                                                                                                                                                                                              additions of liquid fertilizer. 

                                                                                                                                                                                              Isn't this harmful to the fish?  How do you add iron and fertilizer to the substrate without polluting your water?  Sorry if these are dumb questions.  I really like the look of a well planted aquarium, but maybe I need to do more research and start out with a 20 gallon tank and see if I do well with that?

                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Doesn't the extra iron make your water hard?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Linda

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11673 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: low light plants

                                                                                                                                                                                              The iron in fertz adds about 0.1ppm of iron. This does not have any implications on hardness of water. In general, hardness is more governed by carbonates, calcium and magnesium for aquarium purpose as these are the things that effect fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Crazy4fids@...
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: 21 May 2005 14:22
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re: low light plants

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/21/2005 3:35:07 A.M. Central Standard Time, nimmat4@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                              Lol. You get aquarium based liquid fertilizers in aquarium shops. These are not the compost or other organic fertz we using in terrestrial plants.

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              A number of plants will do well in low light, but all will benefit
                                                                                                                                                                                              from the addition of a gravel additive high in iron as well as regular
                                                                                                                                                                                              additions of liquid fertilizer. 

                                                                                                                                                                                              Isn't this harmful to the fish?  How do you add iron and fertilizer to the substrate without polluting your water?  Sorry if these are dumb questions.  I really like the look of a well planted aquarium, but maybe I need to do more research and start out with a 20 gallon tank and see if I do well with that?

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              Doesn't the extra iron make your water hard?

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              Linda

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                               



                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11674 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: low light plants
                                                                                                                                                                                              It isn't harmful if you follow the instructions. The substrate you put
                                                                                                                                                                                              in before you add the water, then top with the gravel. The roots grow
                                                                                                                                                                                              down into it , but the gravel on top keeps it down, so it doesn't muddy
                                                                                                                                                                                              up the water. Fish also need micronutrients, ao the iron in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              substrage that does get into the water isn't going to hurt them. I
                                                                                                                                                                                              like plant tabs rather than liquid fertilizer, because you can
                                                                                                                                                                                              fertilize the plants that need it, and not a plant that is more
                                                                                                                                                                                              agressive. You just poke the plant tab down into the substrate around
                                                                                                                                                                                              the roots. The fertilizer isn't the stuff you get from the nursery, it
                                                                                                                                                                                              is special fertilizer from petstores that won't hurt the fish


                                                                                                                                                                                              > Isn't this harmful to the fish? How do you add iron and fertilizer
                                                                                                                                                                                              to the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > substrate without polluting your water? Sorry if these are dumb
                                                                                                                                                                                              questions. I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > really like the look of a well planted aquarium, but maybe I need to
                                                                                                                                                                                              do more
                                                                                                                                                                                              > research and start out with a 20 gallon tank and see if I do well
                                                                                                                                                                                              with that?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                              > River Falls, WI
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11675 From: Eric Miner Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Shrimp, snails and the bio-load
                                                                                                                                                                                              I'd like to add some shrimp and maybe a few benifical snails to my
                                                                                                                                                                                              tank. I'm wondering what if any impact they have on the bio-load of
                                                                                                                                                                                              the tank. I imagine it's rather low.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                                              Eric
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11676 From: Amanda Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: New here, A little about me, and a question!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello, My name is Amanda. I have a large pond with large Koi fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                              plecos, and 5 turtles. I have a 55 gallon tank with a Yellow Bellied
                                                                                                                                                                                              Slider, some tiger barbs, blue ram cichlids, baby catfish, and a
                                                                                                                                                                                              crayfish. I have a 30 gallon with 2 baby Mississippi Map Turtles, 2
                                                                                                                                                                                              crayfish, and feeder guppies. I also have a 10 gallon brackish tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              with one green spotted puffer, 1 crayfish(the puffer ate one
                                                                                                                                                                                              lastnight!!,) and a baby flounder.(This tank will be getting bigger
                                                                                                                                                                                              soon!)I am considering setting a 10 galoon tank up as a breeder tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              for guppies. I am going through at least 5 dozen feeder fish a week.
                                                                                                                                                                                              I had this idea to buy some netting, and put it across the bottom of
                                                                                                                                                                                              the tank to hopefully save baby fish, rather than having to
                                                                                                                                                                                              constantly worry about putting them in breeder nets, catching the
                                                                                                                                                                                              birth in time, stressing the mother... etc. Do you think that this
                                                                                                                                                                                              would work? I am thinking the babies would fall through, and the
                                                                                                                                                                                              parents wouldn't be able to get to them. Just as long as the netting
                                                                                                                                                                                              has big enough holes for the babies to fall through, and the parents
                                                                                                                                                                                              not to be able to. It sounds like a good idea to me, but I want to
                                                                                                                                                                                              see if anyone has tried this, or thinks it may be a good idea. I
                                                                                                                                                                                              plan on moving to a larger breeding tank eventually, but I am also
                                                                                                                                                                                              cycling a 75 gallon tank now for more fish and turtles that come
                                                                                                                                                                                              into my rescue(All of those hopeless Oscars that nobody researches
                                                                                                                                                                                              before buying... VERY AGGRESSIVE, WILL EAT YOUR OTHER FISH, AND THEY
                                                                                                                                                                                              GET HUGE!!)I don't have the money for a bigger one right now.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Resources are limited, and also time. This is why I worry about
                                                                                                                                                                                              missing the birth, and the fry being eaten. Plus I would love to
                                                                                                                                                                                              save the money on feeding cost! Frozen fish, and turtle food already
                                                                                                                                                                                              cost me enough. So, what do you think about the netting, and the 10
                                                                                                                                                                                              gallon idea? I would greatly appreciate all of your input. I do plan
                                                                                                                                                                                              on putting the babies after they are born in another tank before
                                                                                                                                                                                              they can swim back up through the holes. Thanks in advance for all
                                                                                                                                                                                              of your input. This tank has been cycled for months now, but is
                                                                                                                                                                                              empty do to adopting out some of the fish. All I really need to do
                                                                                                                                                                                              is go to a fabric store and buy some tulle, or netting. Can't wait
                                                                                                                                                                                              to hear your advice!

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                                              Mandy
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11677 From: Alex Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: diy sump with LR and plant filters
                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello all,

                                                                                                                                                                                              New here, but I was wondering if anyone has any info on a homemade
                                                                                                                                                                                              sump with live rock and plants for filtration of your marine
                                                                                                                                                                                              environment?

                                                                                                                                                                                              THanks in advance,

                                                                                                                                                                                              Al
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11678 From: Tricia Wilkerson Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Buffer up question
                                                                                                                                                                                              I just did a test strip on my tank and it is saying to add buffer up... would marine salt do the same thing?
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              '73, MM & MP
                                                                                                                                                                                              Tricia, KG6PNC
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11679 From: TankGurl Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Buffer up question
                                                                                                                                                                                              Yes, it would. Try 1 tablespoon of epsom salt, plus aquarium salt
                                                                                                                                                                                              and/or kosher salt per gallon, plus 1 tablespoon baking soda.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Kelly

                                                                                                                                                                                              On 5/21/05, Tricia Wilkerson <trycya@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I just did a test strip on my tank and it is saying to add buffer up...
                                                                                                                                                                                              > would marine salt do the same thing?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > '73, MM & MP
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Tricia, KG6PNC
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                              > in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                                                                              --
                                                                                                                                                                                              65g Malawi
                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?fish_gurl
                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=7176
                                                                                                                                                                                              135g Frontosa/Tang
                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=8011
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11680 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Buffer up question
                                                                                                                                                                                              Kelly:
                                                                                                                                                                                                  I know that you mean well, but adding that much baking soda to my 10 gallon tank would raise the pH to somewhere around 14!  Well, not that high, but it would go from 6.6 to at least 8.  That would not be good for the fish that quickly.  :)
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Tricia:
                                                                                                                                                                                                  It takes a little trial and error.  I suggest practicing on a bucket of plain water at first, and then when you do a water change, use what you have learned to bring the water you add back to the preferred KH level.  Now I have a question:  What is your level?  If pH is between 5.5 and 8.5, it is probably ok, depending on what fish you have.  If you have African cichlids or livebearers like mollies or halfbeaks you might need to raise it above 7.5, possibly salty, and hard; but if you have tetras, rasboras, gouramis, or South American cichlids it would be better under 7 and soft.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                              -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                              Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11681 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Snail hatching updates!
                                                                                                                                                                                              They are getting so big almost pea size now. They are so cute. But
                                                                                                                                                                                              poop like crazy I suck out poop like 3 times a day!!! And should even
                                                                                                                                                                                              more. But it's tiring!!! HEhehe Also I got some lovely blue snails
                                                                                                                                                                                              maybe nickel size they are so cute.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11682 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              Nope, the water that comes out of your tap should have less than 10 ppm of
                                                                                                                                                                                              nitrate. If you are on a municipal system, have the water company send you
                                                                                                                                                                                              over the latest analysis of the water to see what their figures show. There
                                                                                                                                                                                              is a lot of chicanery that goes on in this area, from what I have been able
                                                                                                                                                                                              to gather. The company that supplies water in DC just got clipped for lead
                                                                                                                                                                                              levels that were too high, even though they might not be responsible for
                                                                                                                                                                                              some of the contaminant as a number of the residences that are involved have
                                                                                                                                                                                              lead in the in house piping. Apparently the EPA had been aware of this for
                                                                                                                                                                                              some time before taking any action. Then there was the finger pointing about
                                                                                                                                                                                              who knew what when and so on and so forth. It was quite a show for a time.

                                                                                                                                                                                              However, in the case of nitrates, there is nothing of which I am aware that
                                                                                                                                                                                              will increase the level in your water supply, once the water has been
                                                                                                                                                                                              treated and sent on its way to your home. If you have well water, there are
                                                                                                                                                                                              a number of things that can affect the nitrate level from season to season,
                                                                                                                                                                                              and these would need to be accounted for in your use of the water for fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                              As I have alluded to before, I am a bit wary when it comes to the "science"
                                                                                                                                                                                              that the government uses to set limits on what is good and what is bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                              you. There was an interesting little chart in the Washington _Post_ the
                                                                                                                                                                                              other day about what has been considered obese by the government over the
                                                                                                                                                                                              last 50 years or so. The measurement has bounced around a bit over that
                                                                                                                                                                                              period of time. Looking at my weight, according to the government, I am
                                                                                                                                                                                              obese, but to look at me, you would never know it <g>.

                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 12:46 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question

                                                                                                                                                                                              by drinking water do you mean purified water? i
                                                                                                                                                                                              assume so, as patrick is correct in what he stated
                                                                                                                                                                                              about tap water. mine comes out between 35 and 40 on
                                                                                                                                                                                              nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Patrick,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > The EPA has set, for drinking water, a Maximum
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Contaminant Level of 10 ppm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > nitrate for drinking water. Their rational seems to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > be that excessive
                                                                                                                                                                                              > amounts of nitrate can affect an infant's health,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > however, there is no
                                                                                                                                                                                              > statement as to what is considered excessive. The
                                                                                                                                                                                              > MCL was set at 10 ppm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > because the EPA believes this to be the lowest level
                                                                                                                                                                                              > that can be achieved
                                                                                                                                                                                              > with current technology, not that anything above
                                                                                                                                                                                              > this level is harmful. This
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is the way the EPA, and other government agencies
                                                                                                                                                                                              > work, rather than
                                                                                                                                                                                              > following any real science on the topic in question.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I don't have time right now to try to track down the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > allowable limits for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > humans. However, just because it may be bad for you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and me, does not mean it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > will be bad for another species. Take, for example,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > mercury levels in fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > It does not seem to adversely affect the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              > populations, but, eating the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish that are contaminated with mercury can lead to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > adverse affects in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > humans. I would suspect that further research into
                                                                                                                                                                                              > that topic would reveal a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > level of contamination that would adversely affect
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the fish, but both in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish and humans, this is a cumulative effect.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Now, does this mean we should ignore nitrate levels
                                                                                                                                                                                              > in our aquariums? Of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > course not. However, the panic I see in some posts
                                                                                                                                                                                              > here about nitrate levels
                                                                                                                                                                                              > in the water are simply uncalled for. Simple regular
                                                                                                                                                                                              > water changes should
                                                                                                                                                                                              > keep levels in check. Plants in the aquarium will
                                                                                                                                                                                              > also help. Checking your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > tap water vs. the published level from your water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > supplier. If the level
                                                                                                                                                                                              > differs by a large amount, then your test kit is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > suspect. For those of you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > who have your own water supply (read on well water),
                                                                                                                                                                                              > it may be wise to ship
                                                                                                                                                                                              > off a sample of your water, from time to time, to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have it tested by a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > respected testing company, and then you can use
                                                                                                                                                                                              > those figures as a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > comparison to your tests.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yes, high nitrate levels are suspect in some fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              > conditions, as I mentioned
                                                                                                                                                                                              > in an earlier post, and we are generally talking
                                                                                                                                                                                              > about very high levels of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > nitrate. And, for most of the species involved,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > their diet will generally
                                                                                                                                                                                              > lead to the high nitrate levels if one does not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > diligently work to keep them
                                                                                                                                                                                              > in check. Still no need to panic.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > If you want to panic about nitrate, wait until your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > levels reach more than
                                                                                                                                                                                              > 400--then panic.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > BTW, if a mouse drinks more than 100 times the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > amount of diet soda that a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > normal person can be expected to consume in a short
                                                                                                                                                                                              > period of time, bad
                                                                                                                                                                                              > things happen to that mouse. Likely, if you drank as
                                                                                                                                                                                              > much diet soda as that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > mouse, bad things would happen to you as well, even
                                                                                                                                                                                              > if you have not been
                                                                                                                                                                                              > bred to have certain susceptibilities, as the mice
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of Patrick, AAFG
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 11:31 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > From what I've been able to find, the legal
                                                                                                                                                                                              > limit for nitrates in tap
                                                                                                                                                                                              > water is between 10 and 45ppm because they can cause
                                                                                                                                                                                              > all kinds of problems,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > especially in babies. If that is the most that is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > legal for humans, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish are more exposed and likely to have problems
                                                                                                                                                                                              > from water contaminants,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > how can it be said that nitrates over 100 are not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > going to kill a fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Maybe they won't die now, but if nitrates are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > dangerous to humans at those
                                                                                                                                                                                              > levels, wont they eventually lead to the death of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the fish if exposed to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > them for too long.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > After all, one of the foundations of fishkeeping
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is that fish are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > extremely sensitive to the chemicals in their water.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > How can we ignore that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > for nitrates?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > "Now this is not the end. It is not even the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > beginning of the end. But it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                              > -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                              the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                              subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                              in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11683 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: tank placement
                                                                                                                                                                                              Back when I had a basement, and I had all my tanks in the basement, I used a
                                                                                                                                                                                              plastic garbage pail to collect the water, and s pump to pump it
                                                                                                                                                                                              out--outside to the close in gardens during warm weather, and inside to a
                                                                                                                                                                                              drain, but higher than the garbage pail. Since you may not have a garden,
                                                                                                                                                                                              you could use a python, if the drain in lower than your tank so you can
                                                                                                                                                                                              maintain a siphon, or use a variation on the pail and pump I used to use. I
                                                                                                                                                                                              was using a python, so I could also deliver water to the tanks without
                                                                                                                                                                                              having to haul it.

                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of kb1dva
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 1:22 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] tank placement



                                                                                                                                                                                              I think I've heard that aquariums should be kept away from cold and drafts.
                                                                                                                                                                                              I.e. not near windows and doors, is this true I live in Boston winter is
                                                                                                                                                                                              cold here. Is there an easy way to do water changes, please remember I have
                                                                                                                                                                                              a 90 gallon tank. I have a siphon/vacuum but there has to be an easier way.
                                                                                                                                                                                              I have only been at this since March! -I have a lot to learn Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11684 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Snail hatching updates!
                                                                                                                                                                                              what are you feeding those suckers.. Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                              They are getting so big almost pea size now. They are so cute. But
                                                                                                                                                                                              poop like crazy I suck out poop like 3 times a day!!! And should even
                                                                                                                                                                                              more. But it's tiring!!! HEhehe Also I got some lovely blue snails
                                                                                                                                                                                              maybe nickel size they are so cute.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11685 From: paul helms Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              well here in ca, municipal water is between 30-40 and
                                                                                                                                                                                              i have tested all over town!
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > Nope, the water that comes out of your tap should
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have less than 10 ppm of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > nitrate. If you are on a municipal system, have the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > water company send you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > over the latest analysis of the water to see what
                                                                                                                                                                                              > their figures show. There
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is a lot of chicanery that goes on in this area,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > from what I have been able
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to gather. The company that supplies water in DC
                                                                                                                                                                                              > just got clipped for lead
                                                                                                                                                                                              > levels that were too high, even though they might
                                                                                                                                                                                              > not be responsible for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > some of the contaminant as a number of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > residences that are involved have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > lead in the in house piping. Apparently the EPA had
                                                                                                                                                                                              > been aware of this for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > some time before taking any action. Then there was
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the finger pointing about
                                                                                                                                                                                              > who knew what when and so on and so forth. It was
                                                                                                                                                                                              > quite a show for a time.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > However, in the case of nitrates, there is nothing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > of which I am aware that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > will increase the level in your water supply, once
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the water has been
                                                                                                                                                                                              > treated and sent on its way to your home. If you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have well water, there are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > a number of things that can affect the nitrate level
                                                                                                                                                                                              > from season to season,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and these would need to be accounted for in your use
                                                                                                                                                                                              > of the water for fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > As I have alluded to before, I am a bit wary when it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > comes to the "science"
                                                                                                                                                                                              > that the government uses to set limits on what is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > good and what is bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you. There was an interesting little chart in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Washington _Post_ the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > other day about what has been considered obese by
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the government over the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > last 50 years or so. The measurement has bounced
                                                                                                                                                                                              > around a bit over that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > period of time. Looking at my weight, according to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the government, I am
                                                                                                                                                                                              > obese, but to look at me, you would never know it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > <g>.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 12:46 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > by drinking water do you mean purified water? i
                                                                                                                                                                                              > assume so, as patrick is correct in what he stated
                                                                                                                                                                                              > about tap water. mine comes out between 35 and 40
                                                                                                                                                                                              > on
                                                                                                                                                                                              > nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Patrick,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > The EPA has set, for drinking water, a Maximum
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Contaminant Level of 10 ppm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > nitrate for drinking water. Their rational seems
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > be that excessive
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > amounts of nitrate can affect an infant's health,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > however, there is no
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > statement as to what is considered excessive. The
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > MCL was set at 10 ppm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > because the EPA believes this to be the lowest
                                                                                                                                                                                              > level
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > that can be achieved
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > with current technology, not that anything above
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > this level is harmful. This
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > is the way the EPA, and other government agencies
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > work, rather than
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > following any real science on the topic in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > question.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I don't have time right now to try to track down
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > allowable limits for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > humans. However, just because it may be bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > and me, does not mean it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > will be bad for another species. Take, for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > example,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > mercury levels in fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > It does not seem to adversely affect the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > populations, but, eating the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > fish that are contaminated with mercury can lead
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > adverse affects in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > humans. I would suspect that further research into
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > that topic would reveal a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > level of contamination that would adversely affect
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the fish, but both in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > fish and humans, this is a cumulative effect.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Now, does this mean we should ignore nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              > levels
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > in our aquariums? Of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > course not. However, the panic I see in some posts
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > here about nitrate levels
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > in the water are simply uncalled for. Simple
                                                                                                                                                                                              > regular
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > water changes should
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > keep levels in check. Plants in the aquarium will
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > also help. Checking your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > tap water vs. the published level from your water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > supplier. If the level
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > differs by a large amount, then your test kit is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > suspect. For those of you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > who have your own water supply (read on well
                                                                                                                                                                                              > water),
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > it may be wise to ship
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > off a sample of your water, from time to time, to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > have it tested by a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > respected testing company, and then you can use
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > those figures as a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > comparison to your tests.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Yes, high nitrate levels are suspect in some fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > conditions, as I mentioned
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > in an earlier post, and we are generally talking
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > about very high levels of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > nitrate. And, for most of the species involved,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > their diet will generally
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > lead to the high nitrate levels if one does not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > diligently work to keep them
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > in check. Still no need to panic.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > If you want to panic about nitrate, wait until
                                                                                                                                                                                              > your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > levels reach more than
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > 400--then panic.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > BTW, if a mouse drinks more than 100 times the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > amount of diet soda that a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > normal person can be expected to consume in a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > short
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > period of time, bad
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > things happen to that mouse. Likely, if you drank
                                                                                                                                                                                              > as
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > much diet soda as that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > mouse, bad things would happen to you as well,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > even
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > if you have not been
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > bred to have certain susceptibilities, as the mice
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > have.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Behalf Of Patrick, AAFG
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 11:31 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Subject: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > From what I've been able to find, the legal
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > limit for nitrates in tap
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > water is between 10 and 45ppm because they can
                                                                                                                                                                                              > cause
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > all kinds of problems,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > especially in babies. If that is the most that is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > legal for humans, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > fish are more exposed and likely to have problems
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > from water contaminants,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > how can it be said that nitrates over 100 are not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > going to kill a fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Maybe they won't die now, but if nitrates are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > dangerous to humans at those
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > levels, wont they eventually lead to the death of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the fish if exposed to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > them for too long.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > After all, one of the foundations of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fishkeeping
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > is that fish are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > extremely sensitive to the chemicals in their
                                                                                                                                                                                              > water.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > How can we ignore that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > for nitrates?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > "Now this is not the end. It is not even the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > beginning of the end. But it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              === message truncated ===




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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11686 From: paul helms Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: diy sump with LR and plant filters
                                                                                                                                                                                              yes i do

                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Alex <alex0366_1999@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hello all,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > New here, but I was wondering if anyone has any info
                                                                                                                                                                                              > on a homemade
                                                                                                                                                                                              > sump with live rock and plants for filtration of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > your marine
                                                                                                                                                                                              > environment?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > THanks in advance,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Al
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11687 From: fuzzybpebble Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: REUPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                              My Female Betta that I had just bought a tank for died today. I am
                                                                                                                                                                                              not going to do anymore bettas after losing so many of them so
                                                                                                                                                                                              quickly. My guppies are all doing great. The babies die quickly if I
                                                                                                                                                                                              do not have them with the adults. They seem to lose the will to
                                                                                                                                                                                              live. So all of my guppies are now in one tank, that being the 10
                                                                                                                                                                                              gallon tank. Everyone is doing great. Added a new stone decoration
                                                                                                                                                                                              to the tank today. I will stay with guppies. They are easy to take
                                                                                                                                                                                              care of and love the Hornwort plants that are in the tank with them.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Bethany
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11688 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                              The pH on the test strips was reading 6.4. I added some buffer up, but I added a bit to much :o
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              I think i finally stabilized the tank around 7.5 which is good for goldfish. I'll check it again this weekend.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                              Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              The stability of the reagent chemicals in liquid test kits can vary,
                                                                                                                                                                                              depending on type of kit. You're probably best replacing your
                                                                                                                                                                                              ammonia reagent, especially if its giving you weird readings. The
                                                                                                                                                                                              liquid pH test reagent is generally more stable, as I've never seen
                                                                                                                                                                                              it give false readings even far after the expiration date, and do
                                                                                                                                                                                              recommend getting at least this one as a liquid kit. By the way, you
                                                                                                                                                                                              never said what your pH reading is, with the pH test strips. Oh
                                                                                                                                                                                              yeah, keep the wood in there. Again, you still haven't said if you
                                                                                                                                                                                              got the low pH reading with the wood being in the aquarium, but have
                                                                                                                                                                                              to assume so from what I'm gathering. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I have a liquid test kit that is past date by a couple months. It
                                                                                                                                                                                              was giving me weird ammonia readings, but I could try it. Should I
                                                                                                                                                                                              actually take out the wood? I like how it looks in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Your hardness no doubt is due to magnesium carbonates; the crushed
                                                                                                                                                                                              > shells and coral will help buffer the water by increasing the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > alkalinity, but in itself won't raise the pH very much. You'll
                                                                                                                                                                                              > probably need to add some baking soda. For your pH to be at its
                                                                                                                                                                                              > lowest test reading (whatever that is) is very unusual, unless
                                                                                                                                                                                              you've
                                                                                                                                                                                              > already added the driftwood. Generally, tap water is hardly ever
                                                                                                                                                                                              > distributed to the consumer by a water company, in an acid pH
                                                                                                                                                                                              range.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Would like to make one recommendation, and that is to consider
                                                                                                                                                                                              > getting liquid test kits, singularly or as one master kit, as these
                                                                                                                                                                                              > kits are much more accurate and reliable (many strip kits have an
                                                                                                                                                                                              > expiration date). Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I got a 5 in one test strip that measures pH, alkalinity,
                                                                                                                                                                                              hardness,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > nitrite and nitrate. Hardness was around 120ppm. Anyway, well it
                                                                                                                                                                                              was
                                                                                                                                                                                              > a little harder than the middle reading. the pH pad and alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                              > were both at the lowest possible value on the strip. I did end up
                                                                                                                                                                                              > adding some crushed shells and coral so we'll see what happens.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Emily, Since your test strip measured 0, I have to assume that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > these
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > strips are for measuring alkalinity -- CACO3 (correct me if I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > wrong), and are not measuring pH, since you can't get a 0 reading
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > with a pH test but instead get a reading (based on comparative
                                                                                                                                                                                              > color
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > chart of from yellow - 6.0, to dark blue - 7.8). Alkalinity test
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > strips do not measure Total Alkalinity (as including magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > carbonate) in the test, but only calcium carbonate. If you ARE
                                                                                                                                                                                              SURE
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > you have hard water you can get a 0 reading for Alkalinity with
                                                                                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > test strips -- in this case, for calcium carbonates, and still
                                                                                                                                                                                              have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > magnesium carbonates which makes water hard. I also have to
                                                                                                                                                                                              assume
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > you've taken a hardness test, and again correct me if I'm wrong.
                                                                                                                                                                                              If
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > in fact your water is hard, as you say, its no doubt due to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > carbonates, in which case you have your buffering capacity and DO
                                                                                                                                                                                              > NOT
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > need to add limestone. Your water should remain fairly stable,
                                                                                                                                                                                              with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the addition of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) as needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > that's what my test strip said :\
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Emily, You're the one who seems to think that your alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                              is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > 0,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > as per your previous post # 11042 (May 12, 12:05PM) Why would
                                                                                                                                                                                              you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > think your alkalinity is 0 if you're now saying that your water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > already hard? Or am I missing something? If your water is hard
                                                                                                                                                                                              it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > must have calcium or magnesium carbonates, -- alkalinity --
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > buffering
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > capacity. Therefore, the water should remain fairly stable with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > use of only sodium bicarbonate, as additional calcite
                                                                                                                                                                                              (limestone)
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > should not be needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > The stupid piece of wood costed $30 >:(
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > I''ll try the limestone. But my water is already hard, so why
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > would
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > alkalinity be 0?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Emily, Rather than using sodium bicarbonate, first use
                                                                                                                                                                                              calcium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > carbonate (limestone) to increase the buffering capacity of
                                                                                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > water,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > if you don't think the fish will mind hard water too much --
                                                                                                                                                                                              I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > don't
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > know what kinds of fish you have. Generally, most fish can
                                                                                                                                                                                              take
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > moderately hard water. With using baking soda first, the pH
                                                                                                                                                                                              is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > likely
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > to bounce as there's no buffering capacity yet. I presume you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > want
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > approach the parameters of your tap water to make water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > changing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > less
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > stressful. If the driftwood is small enough to fit in a large
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > pot,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > might try boiling it, otherwise soak it for a week or so in a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > large
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > bucket with added baking soda, then rinse well. Can't say how
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > much
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > your wood might lower the pH without knowing its size and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > whether
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > its
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > African or Malasian driftwood. Its not bad in the sense that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > many
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > people use it, but it does have the tendency to lower the pH.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > \ --
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > I have a large piece of wood in my new tank. Is this bad
                                                                                                                                                                                              and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > will
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > lower the pH too much? I'm planning a trip to the aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > store
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > later
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > to get some limestone or coral to raise alkalinity. Maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                              I'll
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > just
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > add
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > some baking soda to hold out until then. How much would I add
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > 55
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > gal with a pH of 6.4 and 0 alkalinity?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11689 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: raised black spots on new fish for community tank????
                                                                                                                                                                                              Well, my smaller rosy reds mysteriously disappeared after I added my large goldfish (hmmm....maybe someone became dinner) so I went to the bait store to get some larger fathead minnows. Right now they are quarantined in a 10 gal tank. Some of them have black spots, about 1mm diameter and slightly raised. Is this a parasite or a disease? I've heard of a disease called "black spot".  I want to add them to my 55 gal but only after I get them healthy. Any suggestions on these mysterious spots and what to do? My dad suggested that I add some methylene blue to take care of anything the minnows might be carrying, but I want to eventually turn the 10 gal. into another invert tank, so I don't really want to add anything to the water that could hurt inverts such as snails and crustaceans. I could always put the minnows in another tank and treat them, but the 10 gal is a healthy established tank and I only recently relocated its inhabitants. I thought an established tank would be healthier for the new minnows than setting up a new tank and cycling all those small fish during the quarantine process.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11690 From: J G Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: betta question
                                                                                                                                                                                              OK... I just got around to transfering my fish (an
                                                                                                                                                                                              agel, 2 glow tetras, a green tiger barb, a pelco & an
                                                                                                                                                                                              octo) out of the cramped 5 gal & into their bigger
                                                                                                                                                                                              10gal home. This leaves me with 2 empty 5 gal tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              which I'm setting up for the 2 male bettas (both in
                                                                                                                                                                                              their own 1gal tank right now). I have one in his
                                                                                                                                                                                              tank in my room now & tomorrow I will get the other
                                                                                                                                                                                              tank set up & the other betta in his new home.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I happend to pass the tank & noticed the the one in
                                                                                                                                                                                              the 5gal has decided he doesnt like me anymore & was
                                                                                                                                                                                              flaring up (puffin out his gills) every time he saw
                                                                                                                                                                                              me... kinda cute in a way. I dropped a couple
                                                                                                                                                                                              pellets of food in to see if that'd calm him down. he
                                                                                                                                                                                              swims up & then puffs up at the food too :)

                                                                                                                                                                                              I told a friend about it on yahoo messenger & he asked
                                                                                                                                                                                              how they fight (without having arms, et al)... I
                                                                                                                                                                                              doubt anyone on here would fight their bettas, but
                                                                                                                                                                                              does any one have/know where to see a video of them
                                                                                                                                                                                              fighting... could be interresting to watch now that
                                                                                                                                                                                              he mentioned it :)

                                                                                                                                                                                              But to the real question... since they've got excess
                                                                                                                                                                                              room, I'm looking to get a tank mate (or maybe 2) for
                                                                                                                                                                                              them. I'm def' wanting to get an octo cat for both
                                                                                                                                                                                              tanks, and some plants too... I got one... I forget
                                                                                                                                                                                              what its called... it grows straight up & kinda looks
                                                                                                                                                                                              like a small bush sort of... I'm sure I can find its
                                                                                                                                                                                              little plastic name stick thing somewhere... anyway I
                                                                                                                                                                                              stuck it into the one betta's tanke (the one still in
                                                                                                                                                                                              the small tank) & he seems to like to swim inside of
                                                                                                                                                                                              the plant & hide out there... so I'll probably see
                                                                                                                                                                                              about gettin similar plants - maybe 2 or 3 to make a
                                                                                                                                                                                              larger hiding spot for them... I was wondering if
                                                                                                                                                                                              anyone might have some suggestions as to what other
                                                                                                                                                                                              fish(s) I might get for the tank... One of the bettas
                                                                                                                                                                                              is (or was until I stuck him in the 5gal) kinda
                                                                                                                                                                                              docile, but the other is a little more snappier...
                                                                                                                                                                                              I'll stop down to our tropical pet store some time
                                                                                                                                                                                              next week (prob Tue) & see what they've got that I
                                                                                                                                                                                              like, just want to see if you've all got any suggestions...



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11691 From: paul helms Date: 5/21/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: REUPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                              betta distributors are stating that adding water
                                                                                                                                                                                              treatment chemicals such as novaqua, amquel, stress
                                                                                                                                                                                              zyme, etc are now leading to death in bettas. the are
                                                                                                                                                                                              developing ick and or bacteria quickly in tanks using
                                                                                                                                                                                              anything but tap or distilled water
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- fuzzybpebble <fuzzybpebble@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > My Female Betta that I had just bought a tank for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > died today. I am
                                                                                                                                                                                              > not going to do anymore bettas after losing so many
                                                                                                                                                                                              > of them so
                                                                                                                                                                                              > quickly. My guppies are all doing great. The
                                                                                                                                                                                              > babies die quickly if I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > do not have them with the adults. They seem to lose
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the will to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > live. So all of my guppies are now in one tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > that being the 10
                                                                                                                                                                                              > gallon tank. Everyone is doing great. Added a new
                                                                                                                                                                                              > stone decoration
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to the tank today. I will stay with guppies. They
                                                                                                                                                                                              > are easy to take
                                                                                                                                                                                              > care of and love the Hornwort plants that are in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > tank with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Bethany
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11692 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: FW: Small White Specks on my Heater
                                                                                                                                                                                              I sent this yesterday.  Does the lack of a response mean no one has a clue what this might be?  The specks are not connected, like a cluster of eggs.  Just here and there.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                                              Angela
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              -------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Small White Specks on my Heater
                                                                                                                                                                                              Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 12:09:59 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                              I just noticed small, white specks on my aquarium heater.  I don't see them anywhere else.  They're the size of a pin head and are smooth.  What could they be?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              I have snails, frogs, zebra danios, a guppy, von rio tetras, cories, lemon tetras, a columbian shark, a violet goby and two upside down catfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                              Angela
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11693 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New here, A little about me, and a question!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Amanda,

                                                                                                                                                                                              Welcome to the group!

                                                                                                                                                                                              Don't worry about the netting. The young will want to head to the surface
                                                                                                                                                                                              soon after birth, so it will be self defeating. Instead, just get some of
                                                                                                                                                                                              the feeder guppies, and let nature take its course. Soon, your tank will be
                                                                                                                                                                                              over populated. When doing this, remove males first to try to maintain a 3-4
                                                                                                                                                                                              F-M ratio. With a 10 gallon tank, it will be difficult to reach your goal of
                                                                                                                                                                                              5 dozen a week. You'll need a much larger tank for that.

                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Amanda
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 11:43 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] New here, A little about me, and a question!

                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello, My name is Amanda. I have a large pond with large Koi fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                              plecos, and 5 turtles. I have a 55 gallon tank with a Yellow Bellied
                                                                                                                                                                                              Slider, some tiger barbs, blue ram cichlids, baby catfish, and a
                                                                                                                                                                                              crayfish. I have a 30 gallon with 2 baby Mississippi Map Turtles, 2
                                                                                                                                                                                              crayfish, and feeder guppies. I also have a 10 gallon brackish tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              with one green spotted puffer, 1 crayfish(the puffer ate one
                                                                                                                                                                                              lastnight!!,) and a baby flounder.(This tank will be getting bigger
                                                                                                                                                                                              soon!)I am considering setting a 10 galoon tank up as a breeder tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              for guppies. I am going through at least 5 dozen feeder fish a week.
                                                                                                                                                                                              I had this idea to buy some netting, and put it across the bottom of
                                                                                                                                                                                              the tank to hopefully save baby fish, rather than having to
                                                                                                                                                                                              constantly worry about putting them in breeder nets, catching the
                                                                                                                                                                                              birth in time, stressing the mother... etc. Do you think that this
                                                                                                                                                                                              would work? I am thinking the babies would fall through, and the
                                                                                                                                                                                              parents wouldn't be able to get to them. Just as long as the netting
                                                                                                                                                                                              has big enough holes for the babies to fall through, and the parents
                                                                                                                                                                                              not to be able to. It sounds like a good idea to me, but I want to
                                                                                                                                                                                              see if anyone has tried this, or thinks it may be a good idea. I
                                                                                                                                                                                              plan on moving to a larger breeding tank eventually, but I am also
                                                                                                                                                                                              cycling a 75 gallon tank now for more fish and turtles that come
                                                                                                                                                                                              into my rescue(All of those hopeless Oscars that nobody researches
                                                                                                                                                                                              before buying... VERY AGGRESSIVE, WILL EAT YOUR OTHER FISH, AND THEY
                                                                                                                                                                                              GET HUGE!!)I don't have the money for a bigger one right now.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Resources are limited, and also time. This is why I worry about
                                                                                                                                                                                              missing the birth, and the fry being eaten. Plus I would love to
                                                                                                                                                                                              save the money on feeding cost! Frozen fish, and turtle food already
                                                                                                                                                                                              cost me enough. So, what do you think about the netting, and the 10
                                                                                                                                                                                              gallon idea? I would greatly appreciate all of your input. I do plan
                                                                                                                                                                                              on putting the babies after they are born in another tank before
                                                                                                                                                                                              they can swim back up through the holes. Thanks in advance for all
                                                                                                                                                                                              of your input. This tank has been cycled for months now, but is
                                                                                                                                                                                              empty do to adopting out some of the fish. All I really need to do
                                                                                                                                                                                              is go to a fabric store and buy some tulle, or netting. Can't wait
                                                                                                                                                                                              to hear your advice!

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                                              Mandy
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11694 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                              Emily, That is a bit of a jump -- hope it hasn't stressed any of
                                                                                                                                                                                              your fish too much. Yup, a pH of 7.5 is fine for goldfish; it really
                                                                                                                                                                                              shouldn't change much now. Is your tap water around this same pH?
                                                                                                                                                                                              It would be best if it is, so that when you make partial water
                                                                                                                                                                                              changes it would be so much easier on your fish. You may have to add
                                                                                                                                                                                              a tad of buffer up at those times, as you'll be removing some with
                                                                                                                                                                                              the water you take out, until acidifying effects of the driftwood
                                                                                                                                                                                              wear off. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar <bababanana@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > The pH on the test strips was reading 6.4. I added some buffer up,
                                                                                                                                                                                              but I added a bit to much :o
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I think i finally stabilized the tank around 7.5 which is good for
                                                                                                                                                                                              goldfish. I'll check it again this weekend.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > The stability of the reagent chemicals in liquid test kits can
                                                                                                                                                                                              vary,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > depending on type of kit. You're probably best replacing your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ammonia reagent, especially if its giving you weird readings. The
                                                                                                                                                                                              > liquid pH test reagent is generally more stable, as I've never seen
                                                                                                                                                                                              > it give false readings even far after the expiration date, and do
                                                                                                                                                                                              > recommend getting at least this one as a liquid kit. By the way,
                                                                                                                                                                                              you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > never said what your pH reading is, with the pH test strips. Oh
                                                                                                                                                                                              > yeah, keep the wood in there. Again, you still haven't said if you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > got the low pH reading with the wood being in the aquarium, but
                                                                                                                                                                                              have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to assume so from what I'm gathering. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I have a liquid test kit that is past date by a couple months. It
                                                                                                                                                                                              > was giving me weird ammonia readings, but I could try it. Should I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > actually take out the wood? I like how it looks in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Your hardness no doubt is due to magnesium carbonates; the
                                                                                                                                                                                              crushed
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > shells and coral will help buffer the water by increasing the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > alkalinity, but in itself won't raise the pH very much. You'll
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > probably need to add some baking soda. For your pH to be at its
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > lowest test reading (whatever that is) is very unusual, unless
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you've
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > already added the driftwood. Generally, tap water is hardly ever
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > distributed to the consumer by a water company, in an acid pH
                                                                                                                                                                                              > range.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Would like to make one recommendation, and that is to consider
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > getting liquid test kits, singularly or as one master kit, as
                                                                                                                                                                                              these
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > kits are much more accurate and reliable (many strip kits have an
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > expiration date). Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > I got a 5 in one test strip that measures pH, alkalinity,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > hardness,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > nitrite and nitrate. Hardness was around 120ppm. Anyway, well it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > was
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > a little harder than the middle reading. the pH pad and
                                                                                                                                                                                              alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > were both at the lowest possible value on the strip. I did end up
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > adding some crushed shells and coral so we'll see what happens.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Emily, Since your test strip measured 0, I have to assume that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > these
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > strips are for measuring alkalinity -- CACO3 (correct me if I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > wrong), and are not measuring pH, since you can't get a 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              reading
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > with a pH test but instead get a reading (based on comparative
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > color
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > chart of from yellow - 6.0, to dark blue - 7.8). Alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                              test
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > strips do not measure Total Alkalinity (as including magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > carbonate) in the test, but only calcium carbonate. If you ARE
                                                                                                                                                                                              > SURE
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > you have hard water you can get a 0 reading for Alkalinity with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > test strips -- in this case, for calcium carbonates, and still
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > magnesium carbonates which makes water hard. I also have to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > assume
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > you've taken a hardness test, and again correct me if I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              wrong.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > If
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > in fact your water is hard, as you say, its no doubt due to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > carbonates, in which case you have your buffering capacity and
                                                                                                                                                                                              DO
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > NOT
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > need to add limestone. Your water should remain fairly stable,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > the addition of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) as needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > that's what my test strip said :\
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Emily, You're the one who seems to think that your alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > 0,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > as per your previous post # 11042 (May 12, 12:05PM) Why would
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > think your alkalinity is 0 if you're now saying that your
                                                                                                                                                                                              water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > already hard? Or am I missing something? If your water is
                                                                                                                                                                                              hard
                                                                                                                                                                                              > it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > must have calcium or magnesium carbonates, -- alkalinity --
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > buffering
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > capacity. Therefore, the water should remain fairly stable
                                                                                                                                                                                              with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > use of only sodium bicarbonate, as additional calcite
                                                                                                                                                                                              > (limestone)
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > should not be needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > The stupid piece of wood costed $30 >:(
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > I''ll try the limestone. But my water is already hard, so
                                                                                                                                                                                              why
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > would
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > alkalinity be 0?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Emily, Rather than using sodium bicarbonate, first use
                                                                                                                                                                                              > calcium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > carbonate (limestone) to increase the buffering capacity of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > water,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > if you don't think the fish will mind hard water too much --

                                                                                                                                                                                              > I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > don't
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > know what kinds of fish you have. Generally, most fish can
                                                                                                                                                                                              > take
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > moderately hard water. With using baking soda first, the pH
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > likely
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > to bounce as there's no buffering capacity yet. I presume
                                                                                                                                                                                              you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > want
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > approach the parameters of your tap water to make water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > changing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > less
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > stressful. If the driftwood is small enough to fit in a
                                                                                                                                                                                              large
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > pot,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > might try boiling it, otherwise soak it for a week or so in
                                                                                                                                                                                              a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > large
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > bucket with added baking soda, then rinse well. Can't say
                                                                                                                                                                                              how
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > much
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > your wood might lower the pH without knowing its size and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > whether
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > its
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > African or Malasian driftwood. Its not bad in the sense
                                                                                                                                                                                              that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > many
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > people use it, but it does have the tendency to lower the
                                                                                                                                                                                              pH.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > \ --
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > I have a large piece of wood in my new tank. Is this bad
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > will
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > lower the pH too much? I'm planning a trip to the aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > store
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > later
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > to get some limestone or coral to raise alkalinity. Maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I'll
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > just
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > add
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > some baking soda to hold out until then. How much would I
                                                                                                                                                                                              add
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > 55
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > gal with a pH of 6.4 and 0 alkalinity?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                                              > replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is
                                                                                                                                                                                              not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > original
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > old
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                                              replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              original
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re:
                                                                                                                                                                                              old
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                              > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                              matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                              > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                              > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                              message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                              subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11695 From: John Orzel Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Small Swordtail Babies
                                                                                                                                                                                              I bought a pregant female red swordtail in March that gave birth
                                                                                                                                                                                              in a breeder tank to 28 babies. 5 have survived; one is a runt,
                                                                                                                                                                                              very far undersized compared to others I have had at the same
                                                                                                                                                                                              age. 4 are still in the breeder tank, doing well, but even smaller
                                                                                                                                                                                              than the runt who's swimming loose in the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                              What is the possible reason for this? I'm suspecting a sibling
                                                                                                                                                                                              mating, as all the swordtails in the tank were identical.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11696 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              Paul,

                                                                                                                                                                                              And what does the water company have to say about the nitrate level?

                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 1:11 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question

                                                                                                                                                                                              well here in ca, municipal water is between 30-40 and
                                                                                                                                                                                              i have tested all over town!
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > Nope, the water that comes out of your tap should
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have less than 10 ppm of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > nitrate. If you are on a municipal system, have the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > water company send you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > over the latest analysis of the water to see what
                                                                                                                                                                                              > their figures show. There
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is a lot of chicanery that goes on in this area,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > from what I have been able
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to gather. The company that supplies water in DC
                                                                                                                                                                                              > just got clipped for lead
                                                                                                                                                                                              > levels that were too high, even though they might
                                                                                                                                                                                              > not be responsible for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > some of the contaminant as a number of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > residences that are involved have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > lead in the in house piping. Apparently the EPA had
                                                                                                                                                                                              > been aware of this for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > some time before taking any action. Then there was
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the finger pointing about
                                                                                                                                                                                              > who knew what when and so on and so forth. It was
                                                                                                                                                                                              > quite a show for a time.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > However, in the case of nitrates, there is nothing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > of which I am aware that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > will increase the level in your water supply, once
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the water has been
                                                                                                                                                                                              > treated and sent on its way to your home. If you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have well water, there are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > a number of things that can affect the nitrate level
                                                                                                                                                                                              > from season to season,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and these would need to be accounted for in your use
                                                                                                                                                                                              > of the water for fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > As I have alluded to before, I am a bit wary when it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > comes to the "science"
                                                                                                                                                                                              > that the government uses to set limits on what is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > good and what is bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you. There was an interesting little chart in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Washington _Post_ the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > other day about what has been considered obese by
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the government over the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > last 50 years or so. The measurement has bounced
                                                                                                                                                                                              > around a bit over that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > period of time. Looking at my weight, according to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the government, I am
                                                                                                                                                                                              > obese, but to look at me, you would never know it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > <g>.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 12:46 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > by drinking water do you mean purified water? i
                                                                                                                                                                                              > assume so, as patrick is correct in what he stated
                                                                                                                                                                                              > about tap water. mine comes out between 35 and 40
                                                                                                                                                                                              > on
                                                                                                                                                                                              > nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Patrick,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > The EPA has set, for drinking water, a Maximum
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Contaminant Level of 10 ppm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > nitrate for drinking water. Their rational seems
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > be that excessive
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > amounts of nitrate can affect an infant's health,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > however, there is no
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > statement as to what is considered excessive. The
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > MCL was set at 10 ppm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > because the EPA believes this to be the lowest
                                                                                                                                                                                              > level
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > that can be achieved
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > with current technology, not that anything above
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > this level is harmful. This
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > is the way the EPA, and other government agencies
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > work, rather than
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > following any real science on the topic in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > question.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I don't have time right now to try to track down
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > allowable limits for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > humans. However, just because it may be bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > and me, does not mean it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > will be bad for another species. Take, for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > example,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > mercury levels in fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > It does not seem to adversely affect the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > populations, but, eating the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > fish that are contaminated with mercury can lead
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > adverse affects in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > humans. I would suspect that further research into
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > that topic would reveal a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > level of contamination that would adversely affect
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the fish, but both in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > fish and humans, this is a cumulative effect.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Now, does this mean we should ignore nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              > levels
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > in our aquariums? Of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > course not. However, the panic I see in some posts
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > here about nitrate levels
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > in the water are simply uncalled for. Simple
                                                                                                                                                                                              > regular
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > water changes should
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > keep levels in check. Plants in the aquarium will
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > also help. Checking your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > tap water vs. the published level from your water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > supplier. If the level
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > differs by a large amount, then your test kit is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > suspect. For those of you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > who have your own water supply (read on well
                                                                                                                                                                                              > water),
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > it may be wise to ship
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > off a sample of your water, from time to time, to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > have it tested by a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > respected testing company, and then you can use
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > those figures as a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > comparison to your tests.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Yes, high nitrate levels are suspect in some fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > conditions, as I mentioned
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > in an earlier post, and we are generally talking
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > about very high levels of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > nitrate. And, for most of the species involved,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > their diet will generally
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > lead to the high nitrate levels if one does not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > diligently work to keep them
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > in check. Still no need to panic.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > If you want to panic about nitrate, wait until
                                                                                                                                                                                              > your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > levels reach more than
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > 400--then panic.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > BTW, if a mouse drinks more than 100 times the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > amount of diet soda that a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > normal person can be expected to consume in a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > short
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > period of time, bad
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > things happen to that mouse. Likely, if you drank
                                                                                                                                                                                              > as
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > much diet soda as that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > mouse, bad things would happen to you as well,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > even
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > if you have not been
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > bred to have certain susceptibilities, as the mice
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > have.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Behalf Of Patrick, AAFG
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 11:31 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Subject: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > From what I've been able to find, the legal
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > limit for nitrates in tap
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > water is between 10 and 45ppm because they can
                                                                                                                                                                                              > cause
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > all kinds of problems,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > especially in babies. If that is the most that is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > legal for humans, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > fish are more exposed and likely to have problems
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > from water contaminants,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > how can it be said that nitrates over 100 are not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > going to kill a fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Maybe they won't die now, but if nitrates are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > dangerous to humans at those
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > levels, wont they eventually lead to the death of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the fish if exposed to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > them for too long.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > After all, one of the foundations of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fishkeeping
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > is that fish are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > extremely sensitive to the chemicals in their
                                                                                                                                                                                              > water.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > How can we ignore that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > for nitrates?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > "Now this is not the end. It is not even the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > beginning of the end. But it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              === message truncated ===
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11697 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                              Yeah the fish are fine. Well, two of the smaller ones disappeared, but I think they must have gotten eaten. In the future, how much would you raise the ph at a time to make it more gradual?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                              Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              Emily, That is a bit of a jump -- hope it hasn't stressed any of
                                                                                                                                                                                              your fish too much. Yup, a pH of 7.5 is fine for goldfish; it really
                                                                                                                                                                                              shouldn't change much now. Is your tap water around this same pH?
                                                                                                                                                                                              It would be best if it is, so that when you make partial water
                                                                                                                                                                                              changes it would be so much easier on your fish. You may have to add
                                                                                                                                                                                              a tad of buffer up at those times, as you'll be removing some with
                                                                                                                                                                                              the water you take out, until acidifying effects of the driftwood
                                                                                                                                                                                              wear off. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > The pH on the test strips was reading 6.4. I added some buffer up,
                                                                                                                                                                                              but I added a bit to much :o
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I think i finally stabilized the tank around 7.5 which is good for
                                                                                                                                                                                              goldfish. I'll check it again this weekend.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > The stability of the reagent chemicals in liquid test kits can
                                                                                                                                                                                              vary,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > depending on type of kit. You're probably best replacing your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ammonia reagent, especially if its giving you weird readings. The
                                                                                                                                                                                              > liquid pH test reagent is generally more stable, as I've never seen
                                                                                                                                                                                              > it give false readings even far after the expiration date, and do
                                                                                                                                                                                              > recommend getting at least this one as a liquid kit. By the way,
                                                                                                                                                                                              you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > never said what your pH reading is, with the pH test strips. Oh
                                                                                                                                                                                              > yeah, keep the wood in there. Again, you still haven't said if you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > got the low pH reading with the wood being in the aquarium, but
                                                                                                                                                                                              have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to assume so from what I'm gathering. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I have a liquid test kit that is past date by a couple months. It
                                                                                                                                                                                              > was giving me weird ammonia readings, but I could try it. Should I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > actually take out the wood? I like how it looks in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Your hardness no doubt is due to magnesium carbonates; the
                                                                                                                                                                                              crushed
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > shells and coral will help buffer the water by increasing the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > alkalinity, but in itself won't raise the pH very much. You'll
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > probably need to add some baking soda. For your pH to be at its
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > lowest test reading (whatever that is) is very unusual, unless
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you've
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > already added the driftwood. Generally, tap water is hardly ever
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > distributed to the consumer by a water company, in an acid pH
                                                                                                                                                                                              > range.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Would like to make one recommendation, and that is to consider
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > getting liquid test kits, singularly or as one master kit, as
                                                                                                                                                                                              these
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > kits are much more accurate and reliable (many strip kits have an
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > expiration date). Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > I got a 5 in one test strip that measures pH, alkalinity,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > hardness,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > nitrite and nitrate. Hardness was around 120ppm. Anyway, well it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > was
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > a little harder than the middle reading. the pH pad and
                                                                                                                                                                                              alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > were both at the lowest possible value on the strip. I did end up
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > adding some crushed shells and coral so we'll see what happens.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Emily, Since your test strip measured 0, I have to assume that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > these
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > strips are for measuring alkalinity -- CACO3 (correct me if I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > wrong), and are not measuring pH, since you can't get a 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              reading
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > with a pH test but instead get a reading (based on comparative
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > color
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > chart of from yellow - 6.0, to dark blue - 7.8). Alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                              test
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > strips do not measure Total Alkalinity (as including magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > carbonate) in the test, but only calcium carbonate. If you ARE
                                                                                                                                                                                              > SURE
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > you have hard water you can get a 0 reading for Alkalinity with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > test strips -- in this case, for calcium carbonates, and still
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > magnesium carbonates which makes water hard. I also have to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > assume
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > you've taken a hardness test, and again correct me if I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              wrong.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > If
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > in fact your water is hard, as you say, its no doubt due to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > carbonates, in which case you have your buffering capacity and
                                                                                                                                                                                              DO
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > NOT
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > need to add limestone. Your water should remain fairly stable,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > the addition of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) as needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > that's what my test strip said :\
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Emily, You're the one who seems to think that your alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > 0,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > as per your previous post # 11042 (May 12, 12:05PM) Why would
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > think your alkalinity is 0 if you're now saying that your
                                                                                                                                                                                              water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > already hard? Or am I missing something? If your water is
                                                                                                                                                                                              hard
                                                                                                                                                                                              > it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > must have calcium or magnesium carbonates, -- alkalinity --
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > buffering
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > capacity. Therefore, the water should remain fairly stable
                                                                                                                                                                                              with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > use of only sodium bicarbonate, as additional calcite
                                                                                                                                                                                              > (limestone)
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > should not be needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > The stupid piece of wood costed $30 >:(
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > I''ll try the limestone. But my water is already hard, so
                                                                                                                                                                                              why
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > would
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > alkalinity be 0?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Emily, Rather than using sodium bicarbonate, first use
                                                                                                                                                                                              > calcium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > carbonate (limestone) to increase the buffering capacity of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > water,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > if you don't think the fish will mind hard water too much --

                                                                                                                                                                                              > I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > don't
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > know what kinds of fish you have. Generally, most fish can
                                                                                                                                                                                              > take
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > moderately hard water. With using baking soda first, the pH
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > likely
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > to bounce as there's no buffering capacity yet. I presume
                                                                                                                                                                                              you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > want
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > approach the parameters of your tap water to make water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > changing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > less
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > stressful. If the driftwood is small enough to fit in a
                                                                                                                                                                                              large
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > pot,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > might try boiling it, otherwise soak it for a week or so in
                                                                                                                                                                                              a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > large
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > bucket with added baking soda, then rinse well. Can't say
                                                                                                                                                                                              how
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > much
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > your wood might lower the pH without knowing its size and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > whether
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > its
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > African or Malasian driftwood. Its not bad in the sense
                                                                                                                                                                                              that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > many
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > people use it, but it does have the tendency to lower the
                                                                                                                                                                                              pH.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > \ --
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > I have a large piece of wood in my new tank. Is this bad
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > will
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > lower the pH too much? I'm planning a trip to the aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > store
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > later
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > to get some limestone or coral to raise alkalinity. Maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I'll
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > just
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > add
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > some baking soda to hold out until then. How much would I
                                                                                                                                                                                              add
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > 55
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > gal with a pH of 6.4 and 0 alkalinity?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                                              > replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is
                                                                                                                                                                                              not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > original
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > old
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                                              replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              original
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re:
                                                                                                                                                                                              old
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                              > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                              matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                              > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                              > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                              message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11698 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: raised black spots on new fish for community tank????
                                                                                                                                                                                              Emily, These Black Spots are parasites often found on wild or pond
                                                                                                                                                                                              (outdoor) raised fish. They're caused by Digentic Trematodes (of
                                                                                                                                                                                              various Neascus species) and are untreatable as far as I know,
                                                                                                                                                                                              although too, they are not contagious. These parasites need certain
                                                                                                                                                                                              snails (of the genus Helasoma) as an intermediate host, and in most
                                                                                                                                                                                              cases water birds, such as kingfishers and herons, are the third host
                                                                                                                                                                                              in its life-cycle. When infecting a fish, they form a cyst at which
                                                                                                                                                                                              point the fish grows black pigmented tissue over them. They are not
                                                                                                                                                                                              spread fish to fish. You could try piercing and/or scraping the spot
                                                                                                                                                                                              or spots if there aren't too many and if this doesn't cause the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              too much discomfort, and treating the tank with formalin. No
                                                                                                                                                                                              guarantees with this -- the cysts are protected with the fish's
                                                                                                                                                                                              overgrowth -- but similar parasites are eliminated with this
                                                                                                                                                                                              medication. Otherwise just leave it be, the spots won't kill the
                                                                                                                                                                                              fish unless heavily infested, although it is unsightly. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar <bababanana@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Well, my smaller rosy reds mysteriously disappeared after I added
                                                                                                                                                                                              my large goldfish (hmmm....maybe someone became dinner) so I went to
                                                                                                                                                                                              the bait store to get some larger fathead minnows. Right now they are
                                                                                                                                                                                              quarantined in a 10 gal tank. Some of them have black spots, about
                                                                                                                                                                                              1mm diameter and slightly raised. Is this a parasite or a disease?
                                                                                                                                                                                              I've heard of a disease called "black spot". I want to add them to
                                                                                                                                                                                              my 55 gal but only after I get them healthy. Any suggestions on these
                                                                                                                                                                                              mysterious spots and what to do? My dad suggested that I add some
                                                                                                                                                                                              methylene blue to take care of anything the minnows might be
                                                                                                                                                                                              carrying, but I want to eventually turn the 10 gal. into another
                                                                                                                                                                                              invert tank, so I don't really want to add anything to the water that
                                                                                                                                                                                              could hurt inverts such as snails and crustaceans. I could always put
                                                                                                                                                                                              the minnows in another tank and treat them, but the 10 gal is a
                                                                                                                                                                                              healthy established tank and I only recently relocated its
                                                                                                                                                                                              inhabitants. I thought an established tank would be healthier for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the new minnows than setting up a new tank and cycling all those
                                                                                                                                                                                              small fish during the quarantine process.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11699 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New here, A little about me, and a question!
                                                                                                                                                                                              You can always get the fish net breeders. Those work well for guppies. Stick in your gravid females right before they are about to give birth, and take them out after and the babies will grow in the net until they are large enough to release in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                              Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              Amanda,

                                                                                                                                                                                              Welcome to the group!

                                                                                                                                                                                              Don't worry about the netting. The young will want to head to the surface
                                                                                                                                                                                              soon after birth, so it will be self defeating. Instead, just get some of
                                                                                                                                                                                              the feeder guppies, and let nature take its course. Soon, your tank will be
                                                                                                                                                                                              over populated. When doing this, remove males first to try to maintain a 3-4
                                                                                                                                                                                              F-M ratio. With a 10 gallon tank, it will be difficult to reach your goal of
                                                                                                                                                                                              5 dozen a week. You'll need a much larger tank for that.

                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Amanda
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 11:43 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] New here, A little about me, and a question!

                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello, My name is Amanda. I have a large pond with large Koi fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                              plecos, and 5 turtles. I have a 55 gallon tank with a Yellow Bellied
                                                                                                                                                                                              Slider, some tiger barbs, blue ram cichlids, baby catfish, and a
                                                                                                                                                                                              crayfish. I have a 30 gallon with 2 baby Mississippi Map Turtles, 2
                                                                                                                                                                                              crayfish, and feeder guppies. I also have a 10 gallon brackish tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              with one green spotted puffer, 1 crayfish(the puffer ate one
                                                                                                                                                                                              lastnight!!,) and a baby flounder.(This tank will be getting bigger
                                                                                                                                                                                              soon!)I am considering setting a 10 galoon tank up as a breeder tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              for guppies. I am going through at least 5 dozen feeder fish a week.
                                                                                                                                                                                              I had this idea to buy some netting, and put it across the bottom of
                                                                                                                                                                                              the tank to hopefully save baby fish, rather than having to
                                                                                                                                                                                              constantly worry about putting them in breeder nets, catching the
                                                                                                                                                                                              birth in time, stressing the mother... etc. Do you think that this
                                                                                                                                                                                              would work? I am thinking the babies would fall through, and the
                                                                                                                                                                                              parents wouldn't be able to get to them. Just as long as the netting
                                                                                                                                                                                              has big enough holes for the babies to fall through, and the parents
                                                                                                                                                                                              not to be able to. It sounds like a good idea to me, but I want to
                                                                                                                                                                                              see if anyone has tried this, or thinks it may be a good idea. I
                                                                                                                                                                                              plan on moving to a larger breeding tank eventually, but I am also
                                                                                                                                                                                              cycling a 75 gallon tank now for more fish and turtles that come
                                                                                                                                                                                              into my rescue(All of those hopeless Oscars that nobody researches
                                                                                                                                                                                              before buying... VERY AGGRESSIVE, WILL EAT YOUR OTHER FISH, AND THEY
                                                                                                                                                                                              GET HUGE!!)I don't have the money for a bigger one right now.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Resources are limited, and also time. This is why I worry about
                                                                                                                                                                                              missing the birth, and the fry being eaten. Plus I would love to
                                                                                                                                                                                              save the money on feeding cost! Frozen fish, and turtle food already
                                                                                                                                                                                              cost me enough. So, what do you think about the netting, and the 10
                                                                                                                                                                                              gallon idea? I would greatly appreciate all of your input. I do plan
                                                                                                                                                                                              on putting the babies after they are born in another tank before
                                                                                                                                                                                              they can swim back up through the holes. Thanks in advance for all
                                                                                                                                                                                              of your input. This tank has been cycled for months now, but is
                                                                                                                                                                                              empty do to adopting out some of the fish. All I really need to do
                                                                                                                                                                                              is go to a fabric store and buy some tulle, or netting. Can't wait
                                                                                                                                                                                              to hear your advice!

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                                              Mandy



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11700 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: FW: Small White Specks on my Heater
                                                                                                                                                                                              could they be mineral or calcium deposits from the water???
                                                                                                                                                                                              Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                              angelasjenkins@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              I sent this yesterday.  Does the lack of a response mean no one has a clue what this might be?  The specks are not connected, like a cluster of eggs.  Just here and there.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                                              Angela
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              -------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Small White Specks on my Heater
                                                                                                                                                                                              Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 12:09:59 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                              I just noticed small, white specks on my aquarium heater.  I don't see them anywhere else.  They're the size of a pin head and are smooth.  What could they be?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              I have snails, frogs, zebra danios, a guppy, von rio tetras, cories, lemon tetras, a columbian shark, a violet goby and two upside down catfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                              Angela


                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11701 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: FW: Small White Specks on my Heater

                                                                                                                                                                                              I think you hit the nail on the head.  Lack of response generally means it’s unknown.  But now that you have put it that way, I bet you get a couple of hits. =)

                                                                                                                                                                                              Good luck and wish I could help.  I’ve never come across that or even a post on it.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Have you done a web search?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Leslie

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              Have kids stuff?  Check out Zainy Zebra Consignment!  Based in Cabot, AR  www.ZainyZebra.com

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              Live in or near Cabot?  Join the Cabot Garage Sale! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              Live in Little Rock?  Little Rock Garage Sale!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/

                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From:
                                                                                                                                                                                              AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 5:30 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To:
                                                                                                                                                                                              AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sub
                                                                                                                                                                                              ject: [AquaticLife] FW: Small White Specks on my Heater

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              I sent this yesterday.  Does the lack of a response mean no one has a clue what this might be?  The specks are not connected, like a cluster of eggs.  Just here and there.

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              thanks,


                                                                                                                                                                                              Angela

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              -------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Small White Specks on my Heater
                                                                                                                                                                                              Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 12:09:59 +0000

                                                                                                                                                                                              I just noticed small, white specks on my aquarium heater.  I don't see them anywhere else.  They're the size of a pin head and are smooth.  What could they be?

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              I have snails, frogs, zebra danios, a guppy, von rio tetras, cories, lemon tetras, a columbian shark, a violet goby and two upside down catfish.

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                                              Angela



                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11702 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: wood in tank/ baking soda??
                                                                                                                                                                                              Good to hear the fish are doing good. To play it safe, I wouldn't
                                                                                                                                                                                              raise the pH more than .2 (point 2) at any given time -- that is, as
                                                                                                                                                                                              a sudden change. You could probably repeat that after a period of
                                                                                                                                                                                              about an hour and repeat again if necessary after another hour, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Many of the better (and more knowledgeable) lfs's "'drip' their new
                                                                                                                                                                                              stock in" slowly over the period of about an hour (or more, if
                                                                                                                                                                                              there's a wide pH gap), using airline tubing knotted to allow an
                                                                                                                                                                                              extremely slow flow of their water into their new fish's existing
                                                                                                                                                                                              water to acclimate them to the store water. As the pH scale is
                                                                                                                                                                                              logarithmic, the wider the acclimating gap in pH values, the more
                                                                                                                                                                                              more the fish will get stressed, INCREASINGLY SO, as a gap of 1 point
                                                                                                                                                                                              in pH value represents a ten-fold increase or decrease of basic or
                                                                                                                                                                                              acid values. A gap of 2 points in pH value represents a 100X
                                                                                                                                                                                              increase or decrease. Always best to go slow if you're not sure,
                                                                                                                                                                                              when changing pH. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar <bababanana@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yeah the fish are fine. Well, two of the smaller ones disappeared,
                                                                                                                                                                                              but I think they must have gotten eaten. In the future, how much
                                                                                                                                                                                              would you raise the ph at a time to make it more gradual?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Emily, That is a bit of a jump -- hope it hasn't stressed any of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > your fish too much. Yup, a pH of 7.5 is fine for goldfish; it
                                                                                                                                                                                              really
                                                                                                                                                                                              > shouldn't change much now. Is your tap water around this same pH?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > It would be best if it is, so that when you make partial water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > changes it would be so much easier on your fish. You may have to
                                                                                                                                                                                              add
                                                                                                                                                                                              > a tad of buffer up at those times, as you'll be removing some with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the water you take out, until acidifying effects of the driftwood
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wear off. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > The pH on the test strips was reading 6.4. I added some buffer
                                                                                                                                                                                              up,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > but I added a bit to much :o
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I think i finally stabilized the tank around 7.5 which is good
                                                                                                                                                                                              for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > goldfish. I'll check it again this weekend.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > The stability of the reagent chemicals in liquid test kits can
                                                                                                                                                                                              > vary,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > depending on type of kit. You're probably best replacing your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > ammonia reagent, especially if its giving you weird readings. The
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > liquid pH test reagent is generally more stable, as I've never
                                                                                                                                                                                              seen
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > it give false readings even far after the expiration date, and do
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > recommend getting at least this one as a liquid kit. By the way,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > never said what your pH reading is, with the pH test strips. Oh
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > yeah, keep the wood in there. Again, you still haven't said if
                                                                                                                                                                                              you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > got the low pH reading with the wood being in the aquarium, but
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > to assume so from what I'm gathering. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > I have a liquid test kit that is past date by a couple months.
                                                                                                                                                                                              It
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > was giving me weird ammonia readings, but I could try it. Should
                                                                                                                                                                                              I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > actually take out the wood? I like how it looks in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Your hardness no doubt is due to magnesium carbonates; the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > crushed
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > shells and coral will help buffer the water by increasing the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > alkalinity, but in itself won't raise the pH very much. You'll
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > probably need to add some baking soda. For your pH to be at its
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > lowest test reading (whatever that is) is very unusual, unless
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > you've
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > already added the driftwood. Generally, tap water is hardly
                                                                                                                                                                                              ever
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > distributed to the consumer by a water company, in an acid pH
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > range.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Would like to make one recommendation, and that is to consider
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > getting liquid test kits, singularly or as one master kit, as
                                                                                                                                                                                              > these
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > kits are much more accurate and reliable (many strip kits have
                                                                                                                                                                                              an
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > expiration date). Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > I got a 5 in one test strip that measures pH, alkalinity,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > hardness,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > nitrite and nitrate. Hardness was around 120ppm. Anyway, well
                                                                                                                                                                                              it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > was
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > a little harder than the middle reading. the pH pad and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > were both at the lowest possible value on the strip. I did end
                                                                                                                                                                                              up
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > adding some crushed shells and coral so we'll see what happens.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Emily, Since your test strip measured 0, I have to assume
                                                                                                                                                                                              that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > these
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > strips are for measuring alkalinity -- CACO3 (correct me if
                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > wrong), and are not measuring pH, since you can't get a 0
                                                                                                                                                                                              > reading
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > with a pH test but instead get a reading (based on
                                                                                                                                                                                              comparative
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > color
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > chart of from yellow - 6.0, to dark blue - 7.8). Alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                              > test
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > strips do not measure Total Alkalinity (as including
                                                                                                                                                                                              magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > carbonate) in the test, but only calcium carbonate. If you
                                                                                                                                                                                              ARE
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > SURE
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > you have hard water you can get a 0 reading for Alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                              with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > test strips -- in this case, for calcium carbonates, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              still
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > magnesium carbonates which makes water hard. I also have to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > assume
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > you've taken a hardness test, and again correct me if I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrong.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > If
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > in fact your water is hard, as you say, its no doubt due to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > magnesium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > carbonates, in which case you have your buffering capacity
                                                                                                                                                                                              and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > DO
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > NOT
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > need to add limestone. Your water should remain fairly
                                                                                                                                                                                              stable,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > the addition of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) as needed.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > that's what my test strip said :\
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Emily, You're the one who seems to think that your
                                                                                                                                                                                              alkalinity
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > 0,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > as per your previous post # 11042 (May 12, 12:05PM) Why
                                                                                                                                                                                              would
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > think your alkalinity is 0 if you're now saying that your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > already hard? Or am I missing something? If your water is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > hard
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > must have calcium or magnesium carbonates, -- alkalinity --
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > buffering
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > capacity. Therefore, the water should remain fairly stable
                                                                                                                                                                                              > with
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > use of only sodium bicarbonate, as additional calcite
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > (limestone)
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > should not be needed. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > The stupid piece of wood costed $30 >:(
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > I''ll try the limestone. But my water is already hard, so
                                                                                                                                                                                              > why
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > would
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > alkalinity be 0?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > Emily, Rather than using sodium bicarbonate, first use
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > calcium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > carbonate (limestone) to increase the buffering capacity
                                                                                                                                                                                              of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > water,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > if you don't think the fish will mind hard water too
                                                                                                                                                                                              much --
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > don't
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > know what kinds of fish you have. Generally, most fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              can
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > take
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > moderately hard water. With using baking soda first, the
                                                                                                                                                                                              pH
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > likely
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > to bounce as there's no buffering capacity yet. I presume
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > want
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > approach the parameters of your tap water to make water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > changing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > less
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > stressful. If the driftwood is small enough to fit in a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > large
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > pot,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > might try boiling it, otherwise soak it for a week or so
                                                                                                                                                                                              in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > large
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > bucket with added baking soda, then rinse well. Can't say
                                                                                                                                                                                              > how
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > much
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > your wood might lower the pH without knowing its size and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > whether
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > its
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > African or Malasian driftwood. Its not bad in the sense
                                                                                                                                                                                              > that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > many
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > people use it, but it does have the tendency to lower the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > pH.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > \ --
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > I have a large piece of wood in my new tank. Is this
                                                                                                                                                                                              bad
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > will
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > lower the pH too much? I'm planning a trip to the
                                                                                                                                                                                              aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > store
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > later
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > to get some limestone or coral to raise alkalinity. Maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I'll
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > just
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > add
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > some baking soda to hold out until then. How much would I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > add
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > 55
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > gal with a pH of 6.4 and 0 alkalinity?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > original
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                                                                                                                                                                                              re:
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                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                                              > replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is
                                                                                                                                                                                              not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > original
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re:
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                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                                              replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              original
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re:
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                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                              > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
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                                                                                                                                                                                              matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                              > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
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                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                              thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                              important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                              message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
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                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11703 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Small White Specks on my Heater
                                                                                                                                                                                              Fortunately, we can rule out Ich in this case (lol). While I'm not
                                                                                                                                                                                              saying your heater is too large for your tank, this phenomenon can
                                                                                                                                                                                              occur when the aquarium heater heats water in a relatively short period
                                                                                                                                                                                              of time -- doesn't have to be a large increase at all, just a more
                                                                                                                                                                                              sudden increase as would be allowed with a large wattage heater in a
                                                                                                                                                                                              small capacity container (aquarium). These are mineral deposits being
                                                                                                                                                                                              left behind from water being rapidly heated at a small location. This
                                                                                                                                                                                              would indicate you have water high in mineral salts, such as hard-water
                                                                                                                                                                                              promoting Calcium or Magnesium carbonates, and/or Sodium
                                                                                                                                                                                              (Kosher/aquarium salt). This is a strong possibility as to whats
                                                                                                                                                                                              happening here and in that case is really nothing to worry about as far
                                                                                                                                                                                              as the health of your fish, but such a high wattage heater can cook
                                                                                                                                                                                              your fish (if the thermostat fails), if this is what you have.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Otherwise, you may simply have very hard water. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I just noticed small, white specks on my aquarium heater. I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                              see them anywhere else. They're the size of a pin head and are
                                                                                                                                                                                              smooth. What could they be?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I have snails, frogs, zebra danios, a guppy, von rio tetras, cories,
                                                                                                                                                                                              lemon tetras, a columbian shark, a violet goby and two upside down
                                                                                                                                                                                              catfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Angela
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11704 From: paul helms Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              don't know what the water company has to say about it,
                                                                                                                                                                                              but many scientists from lawrence livermore national
                                                                                                                                                                                              laboratories have commmented about it to me when
                                                                                                                                                                                              purchasing salt water fish from me. they have tested
                                                                                                                                                                                              as well and are quite concerned, and in fact take home
                                                                                                                                                                                              di water from the labs system for their aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                                              why does it matter what the water department says? you
                                                                                                                                                                                              are stating that it must be under 10, and i am
                                                                                                                                                                                              verifying pats point that this is not the case in
                                                                                                                                                                                              every state. i do know how to test nitrates!
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > And what does the water company have to say about
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the nitrate level?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 1:11 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > well here in ca, municipal water is between 30-40
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > i have tested all over town!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Nope, the water that comes out of your tap should
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > have less than 10 ppm of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > nitrate. If you are on a municipal system, have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > water company send you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > over the latest analysis of the water to see what
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > their figures show. There
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > is a lot of chicanery that goes on in this area,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > from what I have been able
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > to gather. The company that supplies water in DC
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > just got clipped for lead
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > levels that were too high, even though they might
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > not be responsible for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > some of the contaminant as a number of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > residences that are involved have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > lead in the in house piping. Apparently the EPA
                                                                                                                                                                                              > had
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > been aware of this for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > some time before taking any action. Then there was
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the finger pointing about
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > who knew what when and so on and so forth. It was
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > quite a show for a time.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > However, in the case of nitrates, there is nothing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > of which I am aware that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > will increase the level in your water supply, once
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the water has been
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > treated and sent on its way to your home. If you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > have well water, there are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > a number of things that can affect the nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              > level
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > from season to season,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > and these would need to be accounted for in your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > use
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > of the water for fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > As I have alluded to before, I am a bit wary when
                                                                                                                                                                                              > it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > comes to the "science"
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > that the government uses to set limits on what is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > good and what is bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > you. There was an interesting little chart in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Washington _Post_ the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > other day about what has been considered obese by
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the government over the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > last 50 years or so. The measurement has bounced
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > around a bit over that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > period of time. Looking at my weight, according to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the government, I am
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > obese, but to look at me, you would never know it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > <g>.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 12:46 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > by drinking water do you mean purified water? i
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > assume so, as patrick is correct in what he stated
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > about tap water. mine comes out between 35 and 40
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > on
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Patrick,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > The EPA has set, for drinking water, a Maximum
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Contaminant Level of 10 ppm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > nitrate for drinking water. Their rational seems
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > be that excessive
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > amounts of nitrate can affect an infant's
                                                                                                                                                                                              > health,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > however, there is no
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > statement as to what is considered excessive.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > The
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > MCL was set at 10 ppm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > because the EPA believes this to be the lowest
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > level
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > that can be achieved
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > with current technology, not that anything above
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > this level is harmful. This
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > is the way the EPA, and other government
                                                                                                                                                                                              > agencies
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > work, rather than
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > following any real science on the topic in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > question.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > I don't have time right now to try to track down
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > allowable limits for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > humans. However, just because it may be bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > and me, does not mean it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > will be bad for another species. Take, for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > example,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > mercury levels in fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > It does not seem to adversely affect the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > populations, but, eating the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > fish that are contaminated with mercury can lead
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > adverse affects in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > humans. I would suspect that further research
                                                                                                                                                                                              > into
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > that topic would reveal a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > level of contamination that would adversely
                                                                                                                                                                                              > affect
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > the fish, but both in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > fish and humans, this is a cumulative effect.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Now, does this mean we should ignore nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > levels
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > in our aquariums? Of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > course not. However, the panic I see in some
                                                                                                                                                                                              > posts
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > here about nitrate levels
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > in the water are simply uncalled for. Simple
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > regular
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > water changes should
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > keep levels in check. Plants in the aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                              > will
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > also help. Checking your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > tap water vs. the published level from your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > supplier. If the level
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > differs by a large amount, then your test kit is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > suspect. For those of you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > who have your own water supply (read on well
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > water),
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > it may be wise to ship
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > off a sample of your water, from time to time,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > have it tested by a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > respected testing company, and then you can use
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > those figures as a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > comparison to your tests.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Yes, high nitrate levels are suspect in some
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > conditions, as I mentioned
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > in an earlier post, and we are generally talking
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > about very high levels of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > nitrate. And, for most of the species involved,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > their diet will generally
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > lead to the high nitrate levels if one does not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > diligently work to keep them
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > in check. Still no need to panic.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > If you want to panic about nitrate, wait until
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > levels reach more than
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > 400--then panic.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > BTW, if a mouse drinks more than 100 times the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > amount of diet soda that a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > normal person can be expected to consume in a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > short
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > period of time, bad
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > things happen to that mouse. Likely, if you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > drank
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > as
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > much diet soda as that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > mouse, bad things would happen to you as well,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > even
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > if you have not been
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > bred to have certain susceptibilities, as the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > mice
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > have.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Behalf Of Patrick, AAFG
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 11:31 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              === message truncated ===




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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11705 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              Paul,

                                                                                                                                                                                              I am not disparaging your testing skills. The EPA MCL is set at 10 ppm,
                                                                                                                                                                                              which means any publicly supplied water should have less than 10 ppm nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              in it. In an earlier post, I pointed out that there seems to be a lot of
                                                                                                                                                                                              chicanery involved with water companies' dealing with the EPA, and pointed
                                                                                                                                                                                              out a recent example. If the water company is telling you that they test 10
                                                                                                                                                                                              ppm or less, you could question them about it, and likely they'll say that
                                                                                                                                                                                              your testing is no good. If one or more testing locations are given, you
                                                                                                                                                                                              could go and personally test at those locations, and determine if they are
                                                                                                                                                                                              making an error in their printing <g>. (You mentioned 45 ppm, and the
                                                                                                                                                                                              reports says 4.5 ppm, oops, decimal error!)

                                                                                                                                                                                              If you really want to take this further along, you could delve further into
                                                                                                                                                                                              the EPA stuff and find out how strictly they are regulating this
                                                                                                                                                                                              measurement. There is the possibility that they are still in the ramp up
                                                                                                                                                                                              period, giving companies leeway to upgrade their facilities to meet the 10
                                                                                                                                                                                              ppm MCL. It could lead to some jolly fun---Yes, PLAY the game! It's fun for
                                                                                                                                                                                              everyone (especially those not directly involved in the action)! JOUSTING
                                                                                                                                                                                              WITH BUREAUCRACIES! Send out press releases to all your news media, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              you'll keep millions amused at your battles! Watch local officials squirm!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Become a persona non grata in your local government offices! Watch prices
                                                                                                                                                                                              and taxes rise! Fun for young and old!

                                                                                                                                                                                              Ooops, sorry about that. Just my own distrust of government, and the glee I
                                                                                                                                                                                              feel when I, or someone else, make local officials squirm.


                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 11:37 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question

                                                                                                                                                                                              don't know what the water company has to say about it,
                                                                                                                                                                                              but many scientists from lawrence livermore national
                                                                                                                                                                                              laboratories have commmented about it to me when
                                                                                                                                                                                              purchasing salt water fish from me. they have tested
                                                                                                                                                                                              as well and are quite concerned, and in fact take home
                                                                                                                                                                                              di water from the labs system for their aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                                              why does it matter what the water department says? you
                                                                                                                                                                                              are stating that it must be under 10, and i am
                                                                                                                                                                                              verifying pats point that this is not the case in
                                                                                                                                                                                              every state. i do know how to test nitrates!
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > And what does the water company have to say about
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the nitrate level?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 1:11 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > well here in ca, municipal water is between 30-40
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > i have tested all over town!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Nope, the water that comes out of your tap should
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > have less than 10 ppm of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > nitrate. If you are on a municipal system, have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > water company send you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > over the latest analysis of the water to see what
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > their figures show. There
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > is a lot of chicanery that goes on in this area,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > from what I have been able
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > to gather. The company that supplies water in DC
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > just got clipped for lead
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > levels that were too high, even though they might
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > not be responsible for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > some of the contaminant as a number of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > residences that are involved have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > lead in the in house piping. Apparently the EPA
                                                                                                                                                                                              > had
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > been aware of this for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > some time before taking any action. Then there was
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the finger pointing about
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > who knew what when and so on and so forth. It was
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > quite a show for a time.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > However, in the case of nitrates, there is nothing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > of which I am aware that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > will increase the level in your water supply, once
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the water has been
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > treated and sent on its way to your home. If you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > have well water, there are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > a number of things that can affect the nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              > level
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > from season to season,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > and these would need to be accounted for in your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > use
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > of the water for fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > As I have alluded to before, I am a bit wary when
                                                                                                                                                                                              > it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > comes to the "science"
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > that the government uses to set limits on what is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > good and what is bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > you. There was an interesting little chart in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Washington _Post_ the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > other day about what has been considered obese by
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the government over the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > last 50 years or so. The measurement has bounced
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > around a bit over that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > period of time. Looking at my weight, according to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the government, I am
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > obese, but to look at me, you would never know it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > <g>.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              ---------------<snip>-----------------
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11706 From: Alex Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: diy sump with LR and plant filters
                                                                                                                                                                                              Well do you feel like sharing?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Al


                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > yes i do
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11707 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: raised black spots on new fish for community tank????
                                                                                                                                                                                              That's great to know. I don't want to hurt the fish so I'm just going to leave them be. They don't seem to be bothered by it. Is there anything else I should worry about before I introduce them to my other tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                              Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              Emily, These Black Spots are parasites often found on wild or pond
                                                                                                                                                                                              (outdoor) raised fish. They're caused by Digentic Trematodes (of
                                                                                                                                                                                              various Neascus species) and are untreatable as far as I know,
                                                                                                                                                                                              although too, they are not contagious. These parasites need certain
                                                                                                                                                                                              snails (of the genus Helasoma) as an intermediate host, and in most
                                                                                                                                                                                              cases water birds, such as kingfishers and herons, are the third host
                                                                                                                                                                                              in its life-cycle. When infecting a fish, they form a cyst at which
                                                                                                                                                                                              point the fish grows black pigmented tissue over them. They are not
                                                                                                                                                                                              spread fish to fish. You could try piercing and/or scraping the spot
                                                                                                                                                                                              or spots if there aren't too many and if this doesn't cause the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              too much discomfort, and treating the tank with formalin. No
                                                                                                                                                                                              guarantees with this -- the cysts are protected with the fish's
                                                                                                                                                                                              overgrowth -- but similar parasites are eliminated with this
                                                                                                                                                                                              medication. Otherwise just leave it be, the spots won't kill the
                                                                                                                                                                                              fish unless heavily infested, although it is unsightly. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Well, my smaller rosy reds mysteriously disappeared after I added
                                                                                                                                                                                              my large goldfish (hmmm....maybe someone became dinner) so I went to
                                                                                                                                                                                              the bait store to get some larger fathead minnows. Right now they are
                                                                                                                                                                                              quarantined in a 10 gal tank. Some of them have black spots, about
                                                                                                                                                                                              1mm diameter and slightly raised. Is this a parasite or a disease?
                                                                                                                                                                                              I've heard of a disease called "black spot". I want to add them to
                                                                                                                                                                                              my 55 gal but only after I get them healthy. Any suggestions on these
                                                                                                                                                                                              mysterious spots and what to do? My dad suggested that I add some
                                                                                                                                                                                              methylene blue to take care of anything the minnows might be
                                                                                                                                                                                              carrying, but I want to eventually turn the 10 gal. into another
                                                                                                                                                                                              invert tank, so I don't really want to add anything to the water that
                                                                                                                                                                                              could hurt inverts such as snails and crustaceans. I could always put
                                                                                                                                                                                              the minnows in another tank and treat them, but the 10 gal is a
                                                                                                                                                                                              healthy established tank and I only recently relocated its
                                                                                                                                                                                              inhabitants. I thought an established tank would be healthier for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the new minnows than setting up a new tank and cycling all those
                                                                                                                                                                                              small fish during the quarantine process.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Emily




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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11708 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: raised black spots on new fish / trematodes
                                                                                                                                                                                              Well, I do have a lot of cone snails and other small pond snails. Will this cause it to spread to other fish, or not because I don't have any birds living in the tank :)
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Also is formalin toxic to inverts?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                              Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              Emily, These Black Spots are parasites often found on wild or pond
                                                                                                                                                                                              (outdoor) raised fish. They're caused by Digentic Trematodes (of
                                                                                                                                                                                              various Neascus species) and are untreatable as far as I know,
                                                                                                                                                                                              although too, they are not contagious. These parasites need certain
                                                                                                                                                                                              snails (of the genus Helasoma) as an intermediate host, and in most
                                                                                                                                                                                              cases water birds, such as kingfishers and herons, are the third host
                                                                                                                                                                                              in its life-cycle. When infecting a fish, they form a cyst at which
                                                                                                                                                                                              point the fish grows black pigmented tissue over them. They are not
                                                                                                                                                                                              spread fish to fish. You could try piercing and/or scraping the spot
                                                                                                                                                                                              or spots if there aren't too many and if this doesn't cause the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              too much discomfort, and treating the tank with formalin. No
                                                                                                                                                                                              guarantees with this -- the cysts are protected with the fish's
                                                                                                                                                                                              overgrowth -- but similar parasites are eliminated with this
                                                                                                                                                                                              medication. Otherwise just leave it be, the spots won't kill the
                                                                                                                                                                                              fish unless heavily infested, although it is unsightly. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11709 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: FW: Small White Specks on my Heater
                                                                                                                                                                                              Angela,
                                                                                                                                                                                              Have you tried removing one or more of these white specks? Are the white specks above the current water line? 
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              [AquaticLife] FW: Small White Specks on my Heater

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              I sent this yesterday.  Does the lack of a response mean no one has a clue what this might be?  The specks are not connected, like a cluster of eggs.  Just here and there.

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              thanks,


                                                                                                                                                                                              Angela

                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11710 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Two male BPs fighting/seperated

                                                                                                                                                                                              My two blood parrots have started fighting so I separated the larger with a divider screen.  While I felt bad for him, the tank was at peace for the first time a long while.  He escaped last night and all seemed OK until the smaller one started to challenge him and they started doing the lip lock dance and each got a little torn up.  So he’s back into the screened part of the tank. 

                                                                                                                                                                                              As this takes up ¼ of the tank, I really don’t want this to be a permanent set up.  I have rearranged everything to eliminate territory, still fought.  Is the only answer to this to get rid of him?  I hate to do that but I can’t keep letting them go at each other this way.  And I hate seeing him so isolated.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Any ideas?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Leslie

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11711 From: Tricia Wilkerson Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Buffer up question
                                                                                                                                                                                              Right now I have guppy & platty fries, 1 adult guppy, 4 corries, 3 golden mystery snails, & unknown number of other snails the came with the plants, plans are to pick up a couple of Kuhli loaches and possible some mollies in a month or so.
                                                                                                                                                                                              the PH is staying between 6.8 & 7.2 with an occasional spike up to 7.6 unfortunately the buffering capacity seems to be staying 0-80 at the moment. 
                                                                                                                                                                                              We are still working on the cycling (chose to use fish and a bit of stability) that was unexpectedly interrupted at the beginning of the 2nd week, due to an opportunity to move that showed itself (that was about 2-2 1/2 weeks ago).  Our nitrate/nitrite activity is finally beginning to show signs of the bacteria culture becoming established and doing its thing, so another couple of weeks and hopefully we will have an established healthy, and happy tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 7:46 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Buffer up question

                                                                                                                                                                                              Kelly:
                                                                                                                                                                                                  I know that you mean well, but adding that much baking soda to my 10 gallon tank would raise the pH to somewhere around 14!  Well, not that high, but it would go from 6.6 to at least 8.  That would not be good for the fish that quickly.  :)
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Tricia:
                                                                                                                                                                                                  It takes a little trial and error.  I suggest practicing on a bucket of plain water at first, and then when you do a water change, use what you have learned to bring the water you add back to the preferred KH level.  Now I have a question:  What is your level?  If pH is between 5.5 and 8.5, it is probably ok, depending on what fish you have.  If you have African cichlids or livebearers like mollies or halfbeaks you might need to raise it above 7.5, possibly salty, and hard; but if you have tetras, rasboras, gouramis, or South American cichlids it would be better under 7 and soft.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                              -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                              Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11712 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: raised black spots on new fish / trematodes
                                                                                                                                                                                              No, it will not spread to other fish. While pond snails are in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              Genus Helisoma, this parasite needs birds to complete the cycle, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              it will not spread to your snails. The cycle goes from snails to
                                                                                                                                                                                              fish to birds then back to snails, etc. Aside from the fact that
                                                                                                                                                                                              I've read conflicting accounts concerning the toxicity of formalin
                                                                                                                                                                                              towards inverts, I tend to believe it is toxic to them and may well
                                                                                                                                                                                              wipe out your nitrifying bacteria culture as well, so probably best
                                                                                                                                                                                              not to use it in an established tank with snails. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar <bababanana@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Well, I do have a lot of cone snails and other small pond snails.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Will this cause it to spread to other fish, or not because I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                              have any birds living in the tank :)
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Also is formalin toxic to inverts?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Emily, These Black Spots are parasites often found on wild or pond
                                                                                                                                                                                              > (outdoor) raised fish. They're caused by Digentic Trematodes (of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > various Neascus species) and are untreatable as far as I know,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > although too, they are not contagious. These parasites need certain
                                                                                                                                                                                              > snails (of the genus Helasoma) as an intermediate host, and in most
                                                                                                                                                                                              > cases water birds, such as kingfishers and herons, are the third
                                                                                                                                                                                              host
                                                                                                                                                                                              > in its life-cycle. When infecting a fish, they form a cyst at which
                                                                                                                                                                                              > point the fish grows black pigmented tissue over them. They are not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > spread fish to fish. You could try piercing and/or scraping the
                                                                                                                                                                                              spot
                                                                                                                                                                                              > or spots if there aren't too many and if this doesn't cause the
                                                                                                                                                                                              fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              > too much discomfort, and treating the tank with formalin. No
                                                                                                                                                                                              > guarantees with this -- the cysts are protected with the fish's
                                                                                                                                                                                              > overgrowth -- but similar parasites are eliminated with this
                                                                                                                                                                                              > medication. Otherwise just leave it be, the spots won't kill the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish unless heavily infested, although it is unsightly. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11713 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Two male BPs fighting/seperated
                                                                                                                                                                                              They're in the new 35 gallon tank, is that right? Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                                                              <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > My two blood parrots have started fighting so I separated the larger
                                                                                                                                                                                              > with a divider screen. While I felt bad for him, the tank was at
                                                                                                                                                                                              peace
                                                                                                                                                                                              > for the first time a long while. He escaped last night and all
                                                                                                                                                                                              seemed
                                                                                                                                                                                              > OK until the smaller one started to challenge him and they started
                                                                                                                                                                                              doing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the lip lock dance and each got a little torn up. So he's back
                                                                                                                                                                                              into the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > screened part of the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > As this takes up ¼ of the tank, I really don't want this to be a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > permanent set up. I have rearranged everything to eliminate
                                                                                                                                                                                              territory,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > still fought. Is the only answer to this to get rid of him? I
                                                                                                                                                                                              hate to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > do that but I can't keep letting them go at each other this way.
                                                                                                                                                                                              And I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > hate seeing him so isolated.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Any ideas?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Leslie
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11714 From: Bruce Hansen Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: raised black spots on new fish / trematodes
                                                                                                                                                                                              Ray

                                                                                                                                                                                              I have heard that these parasites can be treated with a drug called
                                                                                                                                                                                              Ivermectin available from Vets in various forms. The aviculture fraternity
                                                                                                                                                                                              use it also to treat parasitic problems.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Cheers

                                                                                                                                                                                              Bruce (Hansen)

                                                                                                                                                                                              ANGFA (Qld) Inc - http://www.angfaqld.org.au/
                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: "Ray Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 6:36 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: raised black spots on new fish / trematodes


                                                                                                                                                                                              > No, it will not spread to other fish. While pond snails are in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Genus Helisoma, this parasite needs birds to complete the cycle, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > it will not spread to your snails. The cycle goes from snails to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish to birds then back to snails, etc. Aside from the fact that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I've read conflicting accounts concerning the toxicity of formalin
                                                                                                                                                                                              > towards inverts, I tend to believe it is toxic to them and may well
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wipe out your nitrifying bacteria culture as well, so probably best
                                                                                                                                                                                              > not to use it in an established tank with snails. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar <bababanana@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Well, I do have a lot of cone snails and other small pond snails.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Will this cause it to spread to other fish, or not because I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have any birds living in the tank :)
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Also is formalin toxic to inverts?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Emily, These Black Spots are parasites often found on wild or pond
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> (outdoor) raised fish. They're caused by Digentic Trematodes (of
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> various Neascus species) and are untreatable as far as I know,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> although too, they are not contagious. These parasites need certain
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> snails (of the genus Helasoma) as an intermediate host, and in most
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> cases water birds, such as kingfishers and herons, are the third
                                                                                                                                                                                              > host
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> in its life-cycle. When infecting a fish, they form a cyst at which
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> point the fish grows black pigmented tissue over them. They are not
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> spread fish to fish. You could try piercing and/or scraping the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > spot
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> or spots if there aren't too many and if this doesn't cause the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> too much discomfort, and treating the tank with formalin. No
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> guarantees with this -- the cysts are protected with the fish's
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> overgrowth -- but similar parasites are eliminated with this
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> medication. Otherwise just leave it be, the spots won't kill the
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> fish unless heavily infested, although it is unsightly. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> \
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > .
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                                                                                                                                                                                              > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
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                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11715 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Two male BPs fighting/seperated
                                                                                                                                                                                              It's a 75 and we aren't transferred yet. I'm waiting to move them and
                                                                                                                                                                                              take any suggestions to apply it there. That's why I've yet to get rid
                                                                                                                                                                                              of him. I'm hoping to make some adjustments to the new tank to improve
                                                                                                                                                                                              his behavior.
                                                                                                                                                                                              They'll be in it by Wednesday.

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                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                              On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 3:46 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Two male BPs fighting/seperated

                                                                                                                                                                                              They're in the new 35 gallon tank, is that right? Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              \
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                                                              <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > My two blood parrots have started fighting so I separated the larger
                                                                                                                                                                                              > with a divider screen. While I felt bad for him, the tank was at
                                                                                                                                                                                              peace
                                                                                                                                                                                              > for the first time a long while. He escaped last night and all
                                                                                                                                                                                              seemed
                                                                                                                                                                                              > OK until the smaller one started to challenge him and they started
                                                                                                                                                                                              doing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the lip lock dance and each got a little torn up. So he's back
                                                                                                                                                                                              into the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > screened part of the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > As this takes up ¼ of the tank, I really don't want this to be a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > permanent set up. I have rearranged everything to eliminate
                                                                                                                                                                                              territory,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > still fought. Is the only answer to this to get rid of him? I
                                                                                                                                                                                              hate to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > do that but I can't keep letting them go at each other this way.
                                                                                                                                                                                              And I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > hate seeing him so isolated.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Any ideas?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Leslie





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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11716 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: raised black spots on new fish / trematodes
                                                                                                                                                                                              Ivermectin for fish, huh? It's a pesticide against other artropods, so would it hurt crustaceans?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                              Bruce Hansen <toxotes@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              Ray

                                                                                                                                                                                              I have heard that these parasites can be treated with a drug called
                                                                                                                                                                                              Ivermectin available from Vets in various forms. The aviculture fraternity
                                                                                                                                                                                              use it also to treat parasitic problems.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Cheers

                                                                                                                                                                                              Bruce (Hansen)

                                                                                                                                                                                              ANGFA (Qld) Inc - http://www.angfaqld.org.au/
                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: "Ray Wetzel"
                                                                                                                                                                                              To:
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 6:36 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: raised black spots on new fish / trematodes


                                                                                                                                                                                              > No, it will not spread to other fish. While pond snails are in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Genus Helisoma, this parasite needs birds to complete the cycle, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > it will not spread to your snails. The cycle goes from snails to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish to birds then back to snails, etc. Aside from the fact that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I've read conflicting accounts concerning the toxicity of formalin
                                                                                                                                                                                              > towards inverts, I tend to believe it is toxic to them and may well
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wipe out your nitrifying bacteria culture as well, so probably best
                                                                                                                                                                                              > not to use it in an established tank with snails. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar
                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Well, I do have a lot of cone snails and other small pond snails.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Will this cause it to spread to other fish, or not because I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have any birds living in the tank :)
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Also is formalin toxic to inverts?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Ray Wetzel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Emily, These Black Spots are parasites often found on wild or pond
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> (outdoor) raised fish. They're caused by Digentic Trematodes (of
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> various Neascus species) and are untreatable as far as I know,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> although too, they are not contagious. These parasites need certain
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> snails (of the genus Helasoma) as an intermediate host, and in most
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> cases water birds, such as kingfishers and herons, are the third
                                                                                                                                                                                              > host
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> in its life-cycle. When infecting a fish, they form a cyst at which
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> point the fish grows black pigmented tissue over them. They are not
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> spread fish to fish. You could try piercing and/or scraping the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > spot
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> or spots if there aren't too many and if this doesn't cause the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> too much discomfort, and treating the tank with formalin. No
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> guarantees with this -- the cysts are protected with the fish's
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> overgrowth -- but similar parasites are eliminated with this
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> medication. Otherwise just leave it be, the spots won't kill the
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> fish unless heavily infested, although it is unsightly. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> \
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11717 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: raised black spots on new fish / trematodes
                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/22/2005 5:49:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, bababanana@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                              Ivermectin for fish, huh? It's a pesticide against other artropods, so would it hurt crustaceans?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Whoa, before you use ivermectin on fish, you'd better read up on it. When ivermectin became commonly used on cattle, farmers commonly lost the fish in their holding ponds! One of the vets at my practice got into a discussion about this with me the other day when she expressed concern over another med (a feline vaccine) which was carried by what is considered an avian vector and how that might impact our avian clients. The inserts don't always consider what else you may be impacting i.e. using ivermectin on dogs then treating fishies. They can't have warnings about everything. I'd read long and hard PEER REVIEWED studies before I tried it.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Vicky
                                                                                                                                                                                               
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11718 From: paul helms Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              fortunately i have enough happening in my life to not
                                                                                                                                                                                              waste time "playing the game". our water was much
                                                                                                                                                                                              lower in nitrates, more like 15ppm before they "set
                                                                                                                                                                                              new standards" last february, meaning a year agi
                                                                                                                                                                                              february. suddenly everyone had cyanobacteria in
                                                                                                                                                                                              their salt tanks, and fresh water tanks experienced
                                                                                                                                                                                              losses. unfortunatley the new water conditions were
                                                                                                                                                                                              not sent with warnings to aquaria lovers, and only
                                                                                                                                                                                              stated the water would be safer for human consumption.
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I am not disparaging your testing skills. The EPA
                                                                                                                                                                                              > MCL is set at 10 ppm,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > which means any publicly supplied water should have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > less than 10 ppm nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              > in it. In an earlier post, I pointed out that there
                                                                                                                                                                                              > seems to be a lot of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > chicanery involved with water companies' dealing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > with the EPA, and pointed
                                                                                                                                                                                              > out a recent example. If the water company is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > telling you that they test 10
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ppm or less, you could question them about it, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > likely they'll say that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > your testing is no good. If one or more testing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > locations are given, you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > could go and personally test at those locations, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > determine if they are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > making an error in their printing <g>. (You
                                                                                                                                                                                              > mentioned 45 ppm, and the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > reports says 4.5 ppm, oops, decimal error!)
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > If you really want to take this further along, you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > could delve further into
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the EPA stuff and find out how strictly they are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > regulating this
                                                                                                                                                                                              > measurement. There is the possibility that they are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > still in the ramp up
                                                                                                                                                                                              > period, giving companies leeway to upgrade their
                                                                                                                                                                                              > facilities to meet the 10
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ppm MCL. It could lead to some jolly fun---Yes, PLAY
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the game! It's fun for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > everyone (especially those not directly involved in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the action)! JOUSTING
                                                                                                                                                                                              > WITH BUREAUCRACIES! Send out press releases to all
                                                                                                                                                                                              > your news media, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you'll keep millions amused at your battles! Watch
                                                                                                                                                                                              > local officials squirm!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Become a persona non grata in your local government
                                                                                                                                                                                              > offices! Watch prices
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and taxes rise! Fun for young and old!
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ooops, sorry about that. Just my own distrust of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > government, and the glee I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > feel when I, or someone else, make local officials
                                                                                                                                                                                              > squirm.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 11:37 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > don't know what the water company has to say about
                                                                                                                                                                                              > it,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > but many scientists from lawrence livermore national
                                                                                                                                                                                              > laboratories have commmented about it to me when
                                                                                                                                                                                              > purchasing salt water fish from me. they have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > tested
                                                                                                                                                                                              > as well and are quite concerned, and in fact take
                                                                                                                                                                                              > home
                                                                                                                                                                                              > di water from the labs system for their aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > why does it matter what the water department says?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > are stating that it must be under 10, and i am
                                                                                                                                                                                              > verifying pats point that this is not the case in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > every state. i do know how to test nitrates!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > And what does the water company have to say about
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the nitrate level?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 1:11 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > well here in ca, municipal water is between 30-40
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > i have tested all over town!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Nope, the water that comes out of your tap
                                                                                                                                                                                              > should
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > have less than 10 ppm of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > nitrate. If you are on a municipal system, have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > water company send you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > over the latest analysis of the water to see
                                                                                                                                                                                              > what
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > their figures show. There
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > is a lot of chicanery that goes on in this area,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > from what I have been able
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > to gather. The company that supplies water in DC
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > just got clipped for lead
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > levels that were too high, even though they
                                                                                                                                                                                              > might
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > not be responsible for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > some of the contaminant as a number of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > residences that are involved have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > lead in the in house piping. Apparently the EPA
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > had
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > been aware of this for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > some time before taking any action. Then there
                                                                                                                                                                                              > was
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > the finger pointing about
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > who knew what when and so on and so forth. It
                                                                                                                                                                                              > was
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > quite a show for a time.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > However, in the case of nitrates, there is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > nothing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > of which I am aware that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > will increase the level in your water supply,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > once
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > the water has been
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > treated and sent on its way to your home. If you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > have well water, there are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > a number of things that can affect the nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > level
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > from season to season,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > and these would need to be accounted for in your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > use
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > of the water for fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > As I have alluded to before, I am a bit wary
                                                                                                                                                                                              > when
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > comes to the "science"
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > that the government uses to set limits on what
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > good and what is bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > you. There was an interesting little chart in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Washington _Post_ the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > other day about what has been considered obese
                                                                                                                                                                                              > by
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > the government over the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > last 50 years or so. The measurement has bounced
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > around a bit over that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > period of time. Looking at my weight, according
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > the government, I am
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > obese, but to look at me, you would never know
                                                                                                                                                                                              > it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > <g>.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ---------------<snip>-----------------
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >




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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11719 From: paul helms Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: diy sump with LR and plant filters
                                                                                                                                                                                              i thought the question was just whether people had diy
                                                                                                                                                                                              sumps! lol
                                                                                                                                                                                              i use a door hole bit on a drill and cut bulk head
                                                                                                                                                                                              fiotting out of used acryllic tanks. 27 gallon talls
                                                                                                                                                                                              work great. i still have a few if you are interested
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Alex <alex0366_1999@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Well do you feel like sharing?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Al
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                              > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > yes i do
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11720 From: angelasjenkins@comcast.net Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: FW: Small White Specks on my Heater
                                                                                                                                                                                              The specks are below the water line.  I've removed some, they're hard.  Some are on the glass of the aquarium on a side not near the heater.  I"m baffled!
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Angela
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                              Angela,
                                                                                                                                                                                              Have you tried removing one or more of these white specks? Are the white specks above the current water line? 
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11721 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              the water companies here in the bay, depending upon the city and/or county, are always advertising different water changes (i work at a newspaper and see the ads often) but who the heck pays attention and can keep track of all of them?!?! i certainly don't and i bet paul doesn't, either.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              Paul,

                                                                                                                                                                                              And what does the water company have to say about the nitrate level?

                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 1:11 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question

                                                                                                                                                                                              well here in ca, municipal water is between 30-40 and
                                                                                                                                                                                              i have tested all over town!
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > Nope, the water that comes out of your tap should
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have less than 10 ppm of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > nitrate. If you are on a municipal system, have the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > water company send you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > over the latest analysis of the water to see what
                                                                                                                                                                                              > their figures show. There
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is a lot of chicanery that goes on in this area,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > from what I have been able
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to gather. The company that supplies water in DC
                                                                                                                                                                                              > just got clipped for lead
                                                                                                                                                                                              > levels that were too high, even though they might
                                                                                                                                                                                              > not be responsible for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > some of the contaminant as a number of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > residences that are involved have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > lead in the in house piping. Apparently the EPA had
                                                                                                                                                                                              > been aware of this for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > some time before taking any action. Then there was
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the finger pointing about
                                                                                                                                                                                              > who knew what when and so on and so forth. It was
                                                                                                                                                                                              > quite a show for a time.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > However, in the case of nitrates, there is nothing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > of which I am aware that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > will increase the level in your water supply, once
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the water has been
                                                                                                                                                                                              > treated and sent on its way to your home. If you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have well water, there are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > a number of things that can affect the nitrate level
                                                                                                                                                                                              > from season to season,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and these would need to be accounted for in your use
                                                                                                                                                                                              > of the water for fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > As I have alluded to before, I am a bit wary when it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > comes to the "science"
                                                                                                                                                                                              > that the government uses to set limits on what is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > good and what is bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you. There was an interesting little chart in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Washington _Post_ the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > other day about what has been considered obese by
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the government over the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > last 50 years or so. The measurement has bounced
                                                                                                                                                                                              > around a bit over that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > period of time. Looking at my weight, according to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the government, I am
                                                                                                                                                                                              > obese, but to look at me, you would never know it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > <g>.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 12:46 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > by drinking water do you mean purified water?  i
                                                                                                                                                                                              > assume so, as patrick is correct in what he stated
                                                                                                                                                                                              > about tap water.  mine comes out between 35 and 40
                                                                                                                                                                                              > on
                                                                                                                                                                                              > nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Patrick,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > The EPA has set, for drinking water, a Maximum
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Contaminant Level of 10 ppm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > nitrate for drinking water. Their rational seems
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > be that excessive
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > amounts of nitrate can affect an infant's health,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > however, there is no
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > statement as to what is considered excessive. The
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > MCL was set at 10 ppm
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > because the EPA believes this to be the lowest
                                                                                                                                                                                              > level
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > that can be achieved
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > with current technology, not that anything above
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > this level is harmful. This
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > is the way the EPA, and other government agencies
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > work, rather than
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > following any real science on the topic in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > question.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I don't have time right now to try to track down
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > allowable limits for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > humans. However, just because it may be bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > and me, does not mean it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > will be bad for another species. Take, for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > example,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > mercury levels in fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > It does not seem to adversely affect the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > populations, but, eating the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > fish that are contaminated with mercury can lead
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > adverse affects in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > humans. I would suspect that further research into
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > that topic would reveal a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > level of contamination that would adversely affect
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the fish, but both in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > fish and humans, this is a cumulative effect.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Now, does this mean we should ignore nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              > levels
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > in our aquariums? Of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > course not. However, the panic I see in some posts
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > here about nitrate levels
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > in the water are simply uncalled for. Simple
                                                                                                                                                                                              > regular
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > water changes should
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > keep levels in check. Plants in the aquarium will
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > also help. Checking your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > tap water vs. the published level from your water
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > supplier. If the level
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > differs by a large amount, then your test kit is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > suspect. For those of you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > who have your own water supply (read on well
                                                                                                                                                                                              > water),
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > it may be wise to ship
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > off a sample of your water, from time to time, to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > have it tested by a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > respected testing company, and then you can use
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > those figures as a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > comparison to your tests.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Yes, high nitrate levels are suspect in some fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > conditions, as I mentioned
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > in an earlier post, and we are generally talking
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > about very high levels of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > nitrate. And, for most of the species involved,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > their diet will generally
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > lead to the high nitrate levels if one does not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > diligently work to keep them
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > in check. Still no need to panic.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > If you want to panic about nitrate, wait until
                                                                                                                                                                                              > your
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > levels reach more than
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > 400--then panic.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > BTW, if a mouse drinks more than 100 times the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > amount of diet soda that a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > normal person can be expected to consume in a
                                                                                                                                                                                              > short
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > period of time, bad
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > things happen to that mouse. Likely, if you drank
                                                                                                                                                                                              > as
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > much diet soda as that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > mouse, bad things would happen to you as well,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > even
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > if you have not been
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > bred to have certain susceptibilities, as the mice
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > have.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Behalf Of Patrick, AAFG
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 11:31 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Subject: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >     From what I've been able to find, the legal
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > limit for nitrates in tap
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > water is between 10 and 45ppm because they can
                                                                                                                                                                                              > cause
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > all kinds of problems,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > especially in babies.  If that is the most that is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > legal for humans, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > fish are more exposed and likely to have problems
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > from water contaminants,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > how can it be said that nitrates over 100 are not
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > going to kill a fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Maybe they won't die now, but if nitrates are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > dangerous to humans at those
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > levels, wont they eventually lead to the death of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the fish if exposed to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > them for too long. 
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > 
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >     After all, one of the foundations of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > fishkeeping
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > is that fish are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > extremely sensitive to the chemicals in their
                                                                                                                                                                                              > water.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >  How can we ignore that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > for nitrates?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > 
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > 
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > 
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > "Now this is not the end. It is not even the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > beginning of the end. But it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              === message truncated ===



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                                                                                                                                                                                              Valeen Robertson Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                              I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11722 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: REUPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                              paul, this is not good news for me! i use prime and nova aqua+ to dechlorify my tap water, depending upon what i have at the time, for my freshwater aquariums. i use my distilled r/o water for my salwater tanks. should i also use the distilled water for my freshwater tanks now, too?

                                                                                                                                                                                              paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              betta distributors are stating that adding water
                                                                                                                                                                                              treatment chemicals such as novaqua, amquel, stress
                                                                                                                                                                                              zyme, etc are now leading to death in bettas.  the are
                                                                                                                                                                                              developing ick and or bacteria quickly in tanks using
                                                                                                                                                                                              anything but tap or distilled water
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- fuzzybpebble <fuzzybpebble@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              > My Female Betta that I had just bought a tank for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > died today.  I am
                                                                                                                                                                                              > not going to do anymore bettas after losing so many
                                                                                                                                                                                              > of them so
                                                                                                                                                                                              > quickly.  My guppies are all doing great.  The
                                                                                                                                                                                              > babies die quickly if I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > do not have them with the adults.  They seem to lose
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the will to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > live.  So all of my guppies are now in one tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > that being the 10
                                                                                                                                                                                              > gallon tank.  Everyone is doing great.  Added a new
                                                                                                                                                                                              > stone decoration
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to the tank today.  I will stay with guppies.  They
                                                                                                                                                                                              > are easy to take
                                                                                                                                                                                              > care of and love the Hornwort plants that are in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > tank with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Bethany
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >


                                                                                                                                                                                                         
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                                                                                                                                                                                              .
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Valeen Robertson Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                              I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11723 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: betta question
                                                                                                                                                                                              i'm not sure you could fit anymore fish in 5 gal tanks. maybe 1 tetra, but most tetras are schoolers and probably wouldn't appreciate being the single fish of their kind in a small tank. i know cherry barbs aren't schoolers, but not sure if they should go into a 5 gal or not.

                                                                                                                                                                                              J G <sir_grubs47@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              OK...  I just got around to transfering my fish (an
                                                                                                                                                                                              agel, 2 glow tetras, a green tiger barb, a pelco & an
                                                                                                                                                                                              octo) out of the cramped 5 gal & into their bigger
                                                                                                                                                                                              10gal home.  This leaves me with 2 empty 5 gal tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              which I'm setting up for the 2 male bettas (both in
                                                                                                                                                                                              their own 1gal tank right now).  I have one in his
                                                                                                                                                                                              tank in my room now & tomorrow I will get the other
                                                                                                                                                                                              tank set up & the other betta in his new home. 

                                                                                                                                                                                              I happend to pass the tank & noticed the the one in
                                                                                                                                                                                              the 5gal has decided he doesnt like me anymore & was
                                                                                                                                                                                              flaring up (puffin out his gills) every time he saw
                                                                                                                                                                                              me...  kinda cute in a way.  I dropped a couple
                                                                                                                                                                                              pellets of food in to see if that'd calm him down.  he
                                                                                                                                                                                              swims up & then puffs up at the food too :) 

                                                                                                                                                                                              I told a friend about it on yahoo messenger & he asked
                                                                                                                                                                                              how they fight (without having arms, et al)...  I
                                                                                                                                                                                              doubt anyone on here would fight their bettas, but
                                                                                                                                                                                              does any one have/know where to see a video of them
                                                                                                                                                                                              fighting...  could be interresting to watch now that
                                                                                                                                                                                              he mentioned it :) 

                                                                                                                                                                                              But to the real question...  since they've got excess
                                                                                                                                                                                              room, I'm looking to get a tank mate (or maybe 2) for
                                                                                                                                                                                              them.  I'm def' wanting to get an octo cat for both
                                                                                                                                                                                              tanks, and some plants too...  I got one...  I forget
                                                                                                                                                                                              what its called...  it grows straight up & kinda looks
                                                                                                                                                                                              like a small bush sort of...  I'm sure I can find its
                                                                                                                                                                                              little plastic name stick thing somewhere...  anyway I
                                                                                                                                                                                              stuck it into the one betta's tanke (the one still in
                                                                                                                                                                                              the small tank) & he seems to like to swim inside of
                                                                                                                                                                                              the plant & hide out there...  so I'll probably see
                                                                                                                                                                                              about gettin similar plants - maybe 2 or 3 to make a
                                                                                                                                                                                              larger hiding spot for them...  I was wondering if
                                                                                                                                                                                              anyone might have some suggestions as to what other
                                                                                                                                                                                              fish(s) I might get for the tank...  One of the bettas
                                                                                                                                                                                              is (or was until I stuck him in the 5gal) kinda
                                                                                                                                                                                              docile, but the other is a little more snappier...
                                                                                                                                                                                              I'll stop down to our tropical pet store some time
                                                                                                                                                                                              next week (prob Tue) & see what they've got that I
                                                                                                                                                                                              like, just want to see if you've all got any suggestions...


                                                                                                                                                                                                         
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                                                                                                                                                                                              Valeen Robertson Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                              I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11724 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: raised black spots on new fish / trematodes
                                                                                                                                                                                              Seee....that's what i was thinking too. Fish are so sensative to pesticides.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                              seleya8@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/22/2005 5:49:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, bababanana@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                              Ivermectin for fish, huh? It's a pesticide against other artropods, so would it hurt crustaceans?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Whoa, before you use ivermectin on fish, you'd better read up on it. When ivermectin became commonly used on cattle, farmers commonly lost the fish in their holding ponds! One of the vets at my practice got into a discussion about this with me the other day when she expressed concern over another med (a feline vaccine) which was carried by what is considered an avian vector and how that might impact our avian clients. The inserts don't always consider what else you may be impacting i.e. using ivermectin on dogs then treating fishies. They can't have warnings about everything. I'd read long and hard PEER REVIEWED studies before I tried it.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Vicky
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Have a healthy older Flatcoat? Share the wealth! ASK ME how to help Dr Ostrander help *more* people have healthy older dogs! Or write: hgparker@... =)

                                                                                                                                                                                              Suspect a tumor? ='( *PLEASE* contact Dr Breen @ 919-513-1467 _and_ Dr London @ calondon@... 530-754-5711 They NEED your specimens!

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                                                                                                                                                                                              *Use this sig! Help the scientists help us!*
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11725 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              They do seem to be pretty enlightened around here. When they started using a
                                                                                                                                                                                              stronger treatment for bacteria in the water in Fairfax County and another
                                                                                                                                                                                              jurisdiction, it was well publicized with a warning for those keeping fish
                                                                                                                                                                                              (I hesitate to use the term aquarists), and that they would need to change
                                                                                                                                                                                              their regimen when doing water changes.

                                                                                                                                                                                              A warning was also given before DC started to use, I think it was,
                                                                                                                                                                                              orthophosphates, to reduce the lead levels in the water.

                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 7:32 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question

                                                                                                                                                                                              fortunately i have enough happening in my life to not
                                                                                                                                                                                              waste time "playing the game". our water was much
                                                                                                                                                                                              lower in nitrates, more like 15ppm before they "set
                                                                                                                                                                                              new standards" last february, meaning a year agi
                                                                                                                                                                                              february. suddenly everyone had cyanobacteria in
                                                                                                                                                                                              their salt tanks, and fresh water tanks experienced
                                                                                                                                                                                              losses. unfortunatley the new water conditions were
                                                                                                                                                                                              not sent with warnings to aquaria lovers, and only
                                                                                                                                                                                              stated the water would be safer for human consumption.
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I am not disparaging your testing skills. The EPA
                                                                                                                                                                                              > MCL is set at 10 ppm,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > which means any publicly supplied water should have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > less than 10 ppm nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              > in it. In an earlier post, I pointed out that there
                                                                                                                                                                                              > seems to be a lot of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > chicanery involved with water companies' dealing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > with the EPA, and pointed
                                                                                                                                                                                              > out a recent example. If the water company is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > telling you that they test 10
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ppm or less, you could question them about it, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > likely they'll say that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > your testing is no good. If one or more testing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > locations are given, you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > could go and personally test at those locations, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > determine if they are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > making an error in their printing <g>. (You
                                                                                                                                                                                              > mentioned 45 ppm, and the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > reports says 4.5 ppm, oops, decimal error!)
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > If you really want to take this further along, you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > could delve further into
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the EPA stuff and find out how strictly they are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > regulating this
                                                                                                                                                                                              > measurement. There is the possibility that they are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > still in the ramp up
                                                                                                                                                                                              > period, giving companies leeway to upgrade their
                                                                                                                                                                                              > facilities to meet the 10
                                                                                                                                                                                              > ppm MCL. It could lead to some jolly fun---Yes, PLAY
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the game! It's fun for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > everyone (especially those not directly involved in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the action)! JOUSTING
                                                                                                                                                                                              > WITH BUREAUCRACIES! Send out press releases to all
                                                                                                                                                                                              > your news media, and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you'll keep millions amused at your battles! Watch
                                                                                                                                                                                              > local officials squirm!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Become a persona non grata in your local government
                                                                                                                                                                                              > offices! Watch prices
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and taxes rise! Fun for young and old!
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ooops, sorry about that. Just my own distrust of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > government, and the glee I
                                                                                                                                                                                              > feel when I, or someone else, make local officials
                                                                                                                                                                                              > squirm.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 11:37 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > don't know what the water company has to say about
                                                                                                                                                                                              > it,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > but many scientists from lawrence livermore national
                                                                                                                                                                                              > laboratories have commmented about it to me when
                                                                                                                                                                                              > purchasing salt water fish from me. they have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > tested
                                                                                                                                                                                              > as well and are quite concerned, and in fact take
                                                                                                                                                                                              > home
                                                                                                                                                                                              > di water from the labs system for their aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > why does it matter what the water department says?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > are stating that it must be under 10, and i am
                                                                                                                                                                                              > verifying pats point that this is not the case in
                                                                                                                                                                                              > every state. i do know how to test nitrates!
                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > And what does the water company have to say about
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the nitrate level?
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                              -------------------<snip>-----------------
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11726 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: FW: Small White Specks on my Heater
                                                                                                                                                                                              Angela,

                                                                                                                                                                                              If the spots are showing elsewhere in the tank, you probably have diatoms
                                                                                                                                                                                              growing. Diatoms are a microscopic group of critters that neither harm nor
                                                                                                                                                                                              help the fish (unless you use a diatomaceous earth filter occasionally).
                                                                                                                                                                                              They will generally appear when you have a high enough level of silicone in
                                                                                                                                                                                              your water. Beyond that, I don't know what you can do to get rid of them,
                                                                                                                                                                                              other than to reduce the level of silicone by using RO water specifically
                                                                                                                                                                                              filtered to remove that element.

                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of angelasjenkins@...
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 8:07 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] FW: Small White Specks on my Heater


                                                                                                                                                                                              The specks are below the water line. I've removed some, they're hard. Some
                                                                                                                                                                                              are on the glass of the aquarium on a side not near the heater. I"m
                                                                                                                                                                                              baffled!

                                                                                                                                                                                              Angela


                                                                                                                                                                                              -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                              Angela,
                                                                                                                                                                                              Have you tried removing one or more of these white specks? Are the
                                                                                                                                                                                              white specks above the current water line?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11727 From: wantvws Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: rock cleaning
                                                                                                                                                                                              I haven't gotten to setting up my 210 gallon tank yet....I still need
                                                                                                                                                                                              to clean the large rocks, for one. There seems to be a green "fur" on
                                                                                                                                                                                              a lot of them...I suppose this is old algae? They have been in storage
                                                                                                                                                                                              for about 5 years. Do I need to try and scrub this stuff off of them,
                                                                                                                                                                                              or will it be fine to leave it?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11728 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              As I mentioned top Paul in an earlier post, around here, they are pretty
                                                                                                                                                                                              good about making the public aware of possible water quality changes. Also,
                                                                                                                                                                                              in the county where I live, they make seasonal changes in supply--we'll be
                                                                                                                                                                                              due for one next month, that are fairly well known without any notification,
                                                                                                                                                                                              but the notification will appear.

                                                                                                                                                                                              You do not have to pay attention to each company's (and I use company as a
                                                                                                                                                                                              generic term, in that some localities may actually do that function
                                                                                                                                                                                              themselves rather than a company) changes, just the one that affects you. My
                                                                                                                                                                                              guess is that they are probably placing the ads in the Legal Notices section
                                                                                                                                                                                              of the paper, but they probably appear in the same section, in the same
                                                                                                                                                                                              format, where ever they appear. Probably doesn't take more than a minute or
                                                                                                                                                                                              two to open the paper (or go online, depending on they advertising polices
                                                                                                                                                                                              of the paper) to find the ad, if it is there. The information probably also
                                                                                                                                                                                              appears on the web site of the company as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 8:45 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question


                                                                                                                                                                                              the water companies here in the bay, depending upon the city and/or county,
                                                                                                                                                                                              are always advertising different water changes (i work at a newspaper and
                                                                                                                                                                                              see the ads often) but who the heck pays attention and can keep track of all
                                                                                                                                                                                              of them?!?! i certainly don't and i bet paul doesn't, either.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              Paul,

                                                                                                                                                                                              And what does the water company have to say about the nitrate level?


                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 1:11 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question

                                                                                                                                                                                              well here in ca, municipal water is between 30-40 and
                                                                                                                                                                                              i have tested all over town!
                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                              > Nope, the water that comes out of your tap should
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have less than 10 ppm of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > nitrate. If you are on a municipal system, have the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > water company send you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > over the latest analysis of the water to see what
                                                                                                                                                                                              > their figures show. There
                                                                                                                                                                                              > is a lot of chicanery that goes on in this area,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > from what I have been able
                                                                                                                                                                                              > to gather. The company that supplies water in DC
                                                                                                                                                                                              > just got clipped for lead
                                                                                                                                                                                              > levels that were too high, even though they might
                                                                                                                                                                                              > not be responsible for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > some of the contaminant as a number of the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > residences that are involved have
                                                                                                                                                                                              > lead in the in house piping. Apparently the EPA had
                                                                                                                                                                                              > been aware of this for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > some time before taking any action. Then there was
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the finger pointing about
                                                                                                                                                                                              > who knew what when and so on and so forth. It was
                                                                                                                                                                                              > quite a show for a time.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > However, in the case of nitrates, there is nothing
                                                                                                                                                                                              > of which I am aware that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > will increase the level in your water supply, once
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the water has been
                                                                                                                                                                                              > treated and sent on its way to your home. If you
                                                                                                                                                                                              > have well water, there are
                                                                                                                                                                                              > a number of things that can affect the nitrate level
                                                                                                                                                                                              > from season to season,
                                                                                                                                                                                              > and these would need to be accounted for in your use
                                                                                                                                                                                              > of the water for fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > As I have alluded to before, I am a bit wary when it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > comes to the "science"
                                                                                                                                                                                              > that the government uses to set limits on what is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > good and what is bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                              > you. There was an interesting little chart in the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Washington _Post_ the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > other day about what has been considered obese by
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the government over the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > last 50 years or so. The measurement has bounced
                                                                                                                                                                                              > around a bit over that
                                                                                                                                                                                              > period of time. Looking at my weight, according to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the government, I am
                                                                                                                                                                                              > obese, but to look at me, you would never know it
                                                                                                                                                                                              > <g>.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 12:46 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > by drinking water do you mean purified water? i
                                                                                                                                                                                              > assume so, as patrick is correct in what he stated
                                                                                                                                                                                              > about tap water. mine comes out between 35 and 40
                                                                                                                                                                                              > on
                                                                                                                                                                                              > nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                              --------------------<snip>-------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11729 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: low light plants
                                                                                                                                                                                              Cool, thanks


                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: "anubias" <anubias@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 3:52 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [AquaticLife] re: low light plants


                                                                                                                                                                                              >A number of plants will do well in low light, but all will benefit
                                                                                                                                                                                              > from the addition of a gravel additive high in iron as well as regular
                                                                                                                                                                                              > additions of liquid fertilizer.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I would suggest plants of the genera Cryptocoryne, Anubias and
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Aponogeton as well as red Thai lilies (Nymphaea rubra) dwarf lilies
                                                                                                                                                                                              > (N. stellata) and tiger lotus (N. maculata). This will provide a good
                                                                                                                                                                                              > assortment of leaf shapes, colors and sizes. There are several
                                                                                                                                                                                              > important factors to success with these plants. Crypts should be
                                                                                                                                                                                              > disturbed as little as possible. They may drop most or all of their
                                                                                                                                                                                              > leaves after being introduced to the tank but that is just the way of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Crypts and they will come back. It takes a planting of Crypts a full
                                                                                                                                                                                              > year to truly come into their own. Anubias rhizomes should never be
                                                                                                                                                                                              > buried. Aponogetons and Nymphaeas will go dormant and drop most or
                                                                                                                                                                                              > all of their leaves from time to time. Their ability to grow again is
                                                                                                                                                                                              > highly dependent on the iron content of the substrate. High levels of
                                                                                                                                                                                              > iron in the substrate will also allow them to grow for longer lengths
                                                                                                                                                                                              > of time between their dormant periods.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                              > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11730 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: low light plants
                                                                                                                                                                                              Linda,
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              I brought a chemical fertaliser for my water its called SeaChem Flourish, on there website they have a list of supplyers. They also have an iron additive too but i brought some iron right clay instead.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sofar the fish havn't had any problems but i'm having a lot of algae growth on the stones. Ive only been using Flourish for for about 3 weeks i think so still deciding if it helps me.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              The others on this mailing list use Flourish and recommended it to me.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 12:07 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re: low light plants

                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 5/20/2005 12:59:54 P.M. Central Standard Time, anubias@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                              A number of plants will do well in low light, but all will benefit
                                                                                                                                                                                              from the addition of a gravel additive high in iron as well as regular
                                                                                                                                                                                              additions of liquid fertilizer. 
                                                                                                                                                                                              Isn't this harmful to the fish?  How do you add iron and fertilizer to the substrate without polluting your water?  Sorry if these are dumb questions.  I really like the look of a well planted aquarium, but maybe I need to do more research and start out with a 20 gallon tank and see if I do well with that?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                              River Falls, WI


                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11731 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: rock cleaning
                                                                                                                                                                                              I would soak in water to soften then remove the majority of the green fuzz a little left behind wont hurt but remove most of it.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                              125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                              90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                              80 gallon south american cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                              55 gallon african cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                              50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11732 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
                                                                                                                                                                                              I have a problem with this lighting conversion thing, my tank is 90 gallons
                                                                                                                                                                                              meaning i need 360w of light...


                                                                                                                                                                                              or 10x 4ft fluros which is impossible to fit over my tank... any
                                                                                                                                                                                              suggestions to alternatives?


                                                                                                                                                                                              =Nick




                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              From: <r_ohle@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 4:03 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting conversion


                                                                                                                                                                                              > OK I did a little checking and some math. I have 4 watts per gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                                              > I'd like suggestions on plants that will thrive in this environment. My
                                                                                                                                                                                              > knowledge is limited with standard LFS plants
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > At 10:37 PM 5/9/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>10,000k is teh amount of output, not the wattage of
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>the bulb. it is a kelvin measure. you can get a
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>10,000 k bulb anywhere from 11 to 48 inches easily.
                                                                                                                                                                                              >>--- r_ohle@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> > Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> > Anyone know how many watts is a 10K bulb?
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> > red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >> >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              > .
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                              > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                              > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                              > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11733 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: REUPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                                  You do know they are using that as an excuse for having poor-quality stock, don't you. :)  It seems odd that these products, which are used by millions with no apparent problems on other fish, would only cause death in bettas.  It is probably related to the idea of doing 100% water changes of the unfiltered quart bowls every week using aged water.  The story says that if you just use fresh tap water treated for chlorine it will kill the fish.  It isn't remotely based on any facts as far as I know (from experience I know that young bettas grow as well with 75% tri-daily changes in quart bowls as in 1 gallon tanks with weekly 50% changes), but is still spread by a lot of web sites.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                              -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              betta distributors are stating that adding water treatment chemicals such as novaqua, amquel, stress zyme, etc are now leading to death in bettas.  the are developing ick and or bacteria quickly in tanks using anything but tap or distilled water
                                                                                                                                                                                              Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11734 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: easy low light plants
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks Trev and Nim,
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Some of the lighting rules sound funny for me...  4watts per gallon   ie  90 gallons * 4 watts = 360w   thats ten 4ft fluros!!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Cant fit ten on my tank... what should i do? I really want a planted aquarium of magnificence!
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 6:35 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: easy low light plants

                                                                                                                                                                                              For deep tank. HQI rules. Otherwise, Compact fluorescents are good enough for most purposes. Halogens are not of any use in an aquarium environment. They have no colour rendition (I mean very low) and have nothing in them for plants.

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              HQI must always be coupled with a fluorescent if you want better looks as they are so bright that they have a severe washout effect in one or the other of the colours.

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                                                                              From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nicolas Munro
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: 19 May 2005 03:35
                                                                                                                                                                                              To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: easy low light plants

                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                              Fluro vs Halogen vs Metal Halide (HQI)

                                                                                                                                                                                              Which is the best lighting for a deep tank with lots of plants?



                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter





                                                                                                                                                                                              Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                              .
                                                                                                                                                                                              Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11735 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
                                                                                                                                                                                              Do you really need 4 watts per gallon?  I would think 2-3 watts would do enough. :) 
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              You might look into some of the other styles of lighting other than long tubes.  Compact fluorescent and MH lighting come to my mind.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                              -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                              I have a problem with this lighting conversion thing, my tank is 90 gallons
                                                                                                                                                                                              meaning i need 360w of light...


                                                                                                                                                                                              or 10x 4ft fluros which is impossible to fit over my tank...   any
                                                                                                                                                                                              suggestions to alternatives?


                                                                                                                                                                                              =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                              Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11736 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
                                                                                                                                                                                              use compact fluorescent, vho fluorescent or metal halide
                                                                                                                                                                                              compact fluorescent 1 bulb can be close to 100 watts (http://ahsupply.com/96watt.htm) for example and they are not four feet long this one is 34.5 you can alternate over a 4 foot long tank or put end to end on 6 foot  but 4 bulbs would get your wattage
                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                              Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                              125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                              90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                              80 gallon south american cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                              55 gallon african cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                              50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 11737 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Lighting for plants: Fluro's verses Halogen
                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                My tank pics of the plants!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                ONE.jpg   is before i started.  (1st May)
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                TWO.jpg is after i added the Flourish and Iron fertaliser and left it in for a week  (20th May)
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                THREE.jpg is when i added additional lighting and left them all on for one day (23rd May) still to take
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                The original lighting consists of two 4ft fluros, one 10k and one standard house fluro. The additonal lighting consits of four 3ft fluros each of 10k and plant light frequencys. Two of these are Aqua brand the other two are Nec Brand... Unfortunatly one of my ballests was a 22w ballest and hence only three of these four actually light up.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                2x36w + 4x30w =  192 watts      well short of 360w  and i'm running out of room above my tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                The tank is 4ft x 2.5ft x 18in
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                                PS: If you want the pics and didn't get them (ie daily listing) reply back.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 8:52 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting for plants: Fluro's verses Halogen

                                                                                                                                                                                                Looking at the wattage per buck the halogen seams to be better... are the halogens better for plants or equivalent?   do they cause alge or scum?
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                A fluro costs me about $24 ish for a 10000k 36w and a whole unit costs $30
                                                                                                                                                                                                A Halogen costs about $3 ish for a 100w standard halogen house lighting and a whole unit costs $20
                                                                                                                                                                                                (Queensland Australa priceing at my local Bunnings store)
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                =Nick


                                                                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
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                                                                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11738 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
                                                                                                                                                                                                One of the dealers in my area (usually beats the others by 50%) quoted AU$85.00 pr metal halide bulb and AU$17.50 pr compact are the metal halides that much better?
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Also the whole setup (2 of ea) cost nearly AU$900 which is about half a months income.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                thoughts?
                                                                                                                                                                                                =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 1:16 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting conversion

                                                                                                                                                                                                Do you really need 4 watts per gallon?  I would think 2-3 watts would do enough. :) 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                You might look into some of the other styles of lighting other than long tubes.  Compact fluorescent and MH lighting come to my mind.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                                -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                I have a problem with this lighting conversion thing, my tank is 90 gallons
                                                                                                                                                                                                meaning i need 360w of light...


                                                                                                                                                                                                or 10x 4ft fluros which is impossible to fit over my tank...   any
                                                                                                                                                                                                suggestions to alternatives?


                                                                                                                                                                                                =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

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                                                                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11739 From: Joe Sevier Date: 5/22/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Need more members!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                If you guys enjoy this group then come and check out my group at
                                                                                                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/oaklandraider_13/Aquatikcity and join cuz i
                                                                                                                                                                                                want this group to get big!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11740 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Lighting for plants: Fluro's verses Halogen
                                                                                                                                                                                                Nick, What kind of iron fertilizer is it? What is the name and who makes it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks for the help.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                                                LoveMoAko@...

                                                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                                                                                From: Nicolas Munro
                                                                                                                                                                                                Date: 05/22/05 17:38:04
                                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting for plants: Fluro's verses Halogen

                                                                                                                                                                                                My tank pics of the plants!!


                                                                                                                                                                                                ONE.jpg is before i started. (1st May)

                                                                                                                                                                                                TWO.jpg is after i added the Flourish and Iron fertaliser and left it in for
                                                                                                                                                                                                a week (20th May)

                                                                                                                                                                                                THREE.jpg is when i added additional lighting and left them all on for one
                                                                                                                                                                                                day (23rd May) still to take


                                                                                                                                                                                                The original lighting consists of two 4ft fluros, one 10k and one standard
                                                                                                                                                                                                house fluro. The additonal lighting consits of four 3ft fluros each of 10k
                                                                                                                                                                                                and plant light frequencys. Two of these are Aqua brand the other two are
                                                                                                                                                                                                Nec Brand... Unfortunatly one of my ballests was a 22w ballest and hence
                                                                                                                                                                                                only three of these four actually light up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                2x36w + 4x30w = 192 watts well short of 360w and i'm running out of room
                                                                                                                                                                                                above my tank.


                                                                                                                                                                                                The tank is 4ft x 2.5ft x 18in


                                                                                                                                                                                                =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                                PS: If you want the pics and didn't get them (ie daily listing) reply back.

                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                From: Nicolas Munro
                                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 8:52 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting for plants: Fluro's verses Halogen


                                                                                                                                                                                                Looking at the wattage per buck the halogen seams to be better... are the
                                                                                                                                                                                                halogens better for plants or equivalent? do they cause alge or scum?


                                                                                                                                                                                                A fluro costs me about $24 ish for a 10000k 36w and a whole unit costs $30
                                                                                                                                                                                                A Halogen costs about $3 ish for a 100w standard halogen house lighting and
                                                                                                                                                                                                a whole unit costs $20
                                                                                                                                                                                                (Queensland Australa priceing at my local Bunnings store)




                                                                                                                                                                                                =Nick


                                                                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks

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                                                                                                                                                                                                the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in
                                                                                                                                                                                                Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                .
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                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11741 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
                                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 5/22/2005 8:07:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, nmunro@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                I have a problem with this lighting conversion thing, my tank is 90 gallons
                                                                                                                                                                                                meaning i need 360w of light...


                                                                                                                                                                                                or 10x 4ft fluros which is impossible to fit over my tank...   any
                                                                                                                                                                                                suggestions to alternatives?


                                                                                                                                                                                                =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                                Have you looked into power compact flourescent lighting?  I have one fixture that is 220 watts and is 4 feet by 6 1/4 inches.  Mine is the low cost Jebo brand from China and cost $80.00 USD.  It houses four compact flourescent bulbs.  The same company makes a narrower fixture that holds only two of these bulbs.  Combine the two to get about 330 watts.  There are other brands that are probably of better quality but for me price was important at the time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11742 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: REUPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 5/22/2005 8:11:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, patrickmn1@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                The story says that if you just use fresh tap water treated for chlorine it will kill the fish. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick,
                                                                                                                                                                                                Perhaps the people making these claims are the ones that manufacture "betta water" or whatever it is called.  I have seen it in pet stores near the bettas, about a 16 ounce bottle of purified water.  I laughed my ass of when I saw it.  Perhaps they are not connected at all.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11743 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: FW: Small White Specks on my Heater
                                                                                                                                                                                                Angela, Since these specks are NOT ONLY on the heater as you first
                                                                                                                                                                                                suggested, but also on the aquarium glass, that does change things
                                                                                                                                                                                                immensely. I was about to add that if you had one of the newer
                                                                                                                                                                                                unbreakable metal (stainless steel and titanium) heaters such as those
                                                                                                                                                                                                put out by Via Aqua or Pro-Heat, they might be more prone to attracting
                                                                                                                                                                                                mineral deposits, but since this is now also on the glass sides I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                to go along with Steve in saying it sounds more like Diatoms. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > The specks are below the water line. I've removed some, they're
                                                                                                                                                                                                hard. Some are on the glass of the aquarium on a side not near the
                                                                                                                                                                                                heater. I"m baffled!
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Angela
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Have you tried removing one or more of these white specks? Are the
                                                                                                                                                                                                white specks above the current water line?
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11744 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Two male BPs fighting/seperated
                                                                                                                                                                                                Okay, but from recalling back posts, I thought you also had a 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                gallon and a 35 gallon and that we are presently concerned with
                                                                                                                                                                                                (discussing) the BP's behavior in the 35 which I presumed they were
                                                                                                                                                                                                in (perhaps I'm wrong). Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                                                                <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > It's a 75 and we aren't transferred yet. I'm waiting to move them
                                                                                                                                                                                                and
                                                                                                                                                                                                > take any suggestions to apply it there. That's why I've yet to get
                                                                                                                                                                                                rid
                                                                                                                                                                                                > of him. I'm hoping to make some adjustments to the new tank to
                                                                                                                                                                                                improve
                                                                                                                                                                                                > his behavior.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > They'll be in it by Wednesday.
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Have kids stuff? Check out Zainy Zebra Consignment! Based in
                                                                                                                                                                                                Cabot, AR
                                                                                                                                                                                                > www.ZainyZebra.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Live in or near Cabot? Join the Cabot Garage Sale!
                                                                                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CabotgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Live in Little Rock? Little Rock Garage
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Sale!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRgarageSale/
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                                > On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 3:46 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Two male BPs fighting/seperated
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > They're in the new 35 gallon tank, is that right?
                                                                                                                                                                                                Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                                                                > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > My two blood parrots have started fighting so I separated the
                                                                                                                                                                                                larger
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > with a divider screen. While I felt bad for him, the tank was at
                                                                                                                                                                                                > peace
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > for the first time a long while. He escaped last night and all
                                                                                                                                                                                                > seemed
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > OK until the smaller one started to challenge him and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                started
                                                                                                                                                                                                > doing
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > the lip lock dance and each got a little torn up. So he's back
                                                                                                                                                                                                > into the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > screened part of the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > As this takes up ¼ of the tank, I really don't want this to be a
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > permanent set up. I have rearranged everything to eliminate
                                                                                                                                                                                                > territory,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > still fought. Is the only answer to this to get rid of him? I
                                                                                                                                                                                                > hate to
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > do that but I can't keep letting them go at each other this way.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > And I
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > hate seeing him so isolated.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Any ideas?
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Leslie
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                important
                                                                                                                                                                                                > to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                                                                modify
                                                                                                                                                                                                > the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11745 From: kb1dva Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: a question

                                                                                                                                                                                                Will a large tinfoil barb be ok in a tank with a large pacu                                           Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11746 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Two male BPs fighting/seperated -Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                Hey Ray,
                                                                                                                                                                                                I have a 15 gal. that I used as a timeout tank for the mean man when he
                                                                                                                                                                                                got some scales off my other one. Right now he is screened off in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                55 gal getting ready to be moved to the 75 gal. =) He's still screened
                                                                                                                                                                                                in, so I'm just going to wait until I move him to see if that helps.
                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm fairly certain it won't, so I went ahead and posted my concern. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                might make a custom screen divider to keep him in depending on how much
                                                                                                                                                                                                room he will have. I think that might work well. Everything good with
                                                                                                                                                                                                you? =)
                                                                                                                                                                                                Leslie
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11747 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Two male BPs fighting/seperated -Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi Leslie, Everything's fine here thanks, how's by you? Looks like I
                                                                                                                                                                                                was a little off in remembering the size tanks you have. The point I
                                                                                                                                                                                                was about to make was that in a smaller tank, these two guys might not
                                                                                                                                                                                                have enough room to each establish a territory of their own.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Sometimes, when put in a larger tank there's enough room that they can
                                                                                                                                                                                                both "work it out". In this case, the 75 is not that much bigger than
                                                                                                                                                                                                the 55, except its 6" wider -- which won't make too much difference in
                                                                                                                                                                                                their behavior. You could try building a labyrinth of rock work
                                                                                                                                                                                                towards each end of the 75 which each one can claim as their territory
                                                                                                                                                                                                (and dive into if need be). This strategy often works with New World
                                                                                                                                                                                                Cichlids. Also, as I see you're ready to make the move to the 75 on
                                                                                                                                                                                                Wednesday, I presume that tank has finished cycling(?) Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                                                                <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Hey Ray,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > I have a 15 gal. that I used as a timeout tank for the mean man when
                                                                                                                                                                                                he
                                                                                                                                                                                                > got some scales off my other one. Right now he is screened off in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > 55 gal getting ready to be moved to the 75 gal. =) He's still
                                                                                                                                                                                                screened
                                                                                                                                                                                                > in, so I'm just going to wait until I move him to see if that helps.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > I'm fairly certain it won't, so I went ahead and posted my concern. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                > might make a custom screen divider to keep him in depending on how
                                                                                                                                                                                                much
                                                                                                                                                                                                > room he will have. I think that might work well. Everything good
                                                                                                                                                                                                with
                                                                                                                                                                                                > you? =)
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Leslie
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11748 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi Guys,
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Okay so I have a 75 gallon tank and my water is COMPLETELY green.  Why?  I have changed the filters and put new carbon in the media cartridges.  I used some of those white things you drop in the water (nothing).  People claim it is algae but maybe I am not sure what I am looking for.  I have fish dying.  How do I fix this problem?  I did a 60% water change but it didnt do anything.  I tested my water and except for a high ph (7.8) the nitrite/nitrate/amonnia levels appeared normal.  People keep asking me certain questions.  Apparently I have been leaving the flourescent lights on to many hours a day (maybe 14 hours) and although the tank gets some sunlight it isnt directly in front of any window.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Ken 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                From: Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Mon, 23 May 2005 13:00:47 +1000
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re: low light plants

                                                                                                                                                                                                Linda,
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                I brought a chemical fertaliser for my water its called SeaChem Flourish, on there website they have a list of supplyers. They also have an iron additive too but i brought some iron right clay instead.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Sofar the fish havn't had any problems but i'm having a lot of algae growth on the stones. Ive only been using Flourish for for about 3 weeks i think so still deciding if it helps me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                The others on this mailing list use Flourish and recommended it to me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 12:07 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re: low light plants

                                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 5/20/2005 12:59:54 P.M. Central Standard Time, anubias@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                A number of plants will do well in low light, but all will benefit
                                                                                                                                                                                                from the addition of a gravel additive high in iron as well as regular
                                                                                                                                                                                                additions of liquid fertilizer. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Isn't this harmful to the fish?  How do you add iron and fertilizer to the substrate without polluting your water?  Sorry if these are dumb questions.  I really like the look of a well planted aquarium, but maybe I need to do more research and start out with a 20 gallon tank and see if I do well with that?
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                                River Falls, WI


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                                                                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11749 From: Robert Hickey Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: stupid Question
                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi All
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Hope Everyone had a great Weekend,
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                This may seem  really Stupid question but, when cleaning the gravel the water I take out with the gravel cleaner is really really smelly (like rotten eggs) is this right? am I over feeding? or is it normal I clean the gravel once a week,
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks All
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Irish Rob
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Regards
                                                                                                                                                                                                Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Robert Hickey | Networks Engineer Citywest Business Park | BT | Tel: +353 (0)1 43258749
                                                                                                                                                                                                | Mob: +353 (0)86 8061840 | E: robert.hickey@... | www.btireland.ie
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11750 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: REUPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm not much of a conspiracy theory person (Americans walked on the moon first, Kennedy was only shot by one man, and Elvis is alive but not an alien), but there are so many things like that in the industry to be a coincidence.  There is the special water for bettas, there is the idea of salt as a regular water treatment for fw, the need for CO2 and expensive lighting for all planted tanks, goldfish in a bowl, bettas live in puddles so buy a 1 pint hex.  These things seem to either start with aquarists and the industry takes advantage of them, or the industry creates the ideas and sells them in the form of books and aquarists believe them because they are published, sometimes by PhD's who should have gotten their degrees in marketing.  I hope the industry isn't doing these things on purpose, but I don't know.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                                -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick,
                                                                                                                                                                                                Perhaps the people making these claims are the ones that manufacture "betta water" or whatever it is called.  I have seen it in pet stores near the bettas, about a 16 ounce bottle of purified water.  I laughed my ass of when I saw it.  Perhaps they are not connected at all.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11751 From: secretlaw Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                If you didn't add anything or drop anything into the tank. Then I would
                                                                                                                                                                                                say that is algae. You shouldn't place your fish tank beside or under
                                                                                                                                                                                                the direct sunlihgt. You should move the tank away from the direct
                                                                                                                                                                                                sunlight.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11752 From: secretlaw Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: rock cleaning
                                                                                                                                                                                                If it is smooth type of rocks, then just scrub it off. But it is lava
                                                                                                                                                                                                rock, then it is so hard to scrub it off. I would boil them in a hot
                                                                                                                                                                                                pot and then put them under the sun and let the strong sunlight does
                                                                                                                                                                                                the job (no water).
                                                                                                                                                                                                I hope the green stuff u mention is algae.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11753 From: secretlaw Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: a question
                                                                                                                                                                                                I would say it is okay since they both are large.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11754 From: Ron Hansen Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Lighting conversion
                                                                                                                                                                                                Lighting is determined by "watts per square foot" of bottom and then
                                                                                                                                                                                                adjusted for depth (in your case, 24"). "Watts per gallon" is a useless
                                                                                                                                                                                                measurement.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Therefore, your 90 gallon (48x18x24) would be exactly 2/3 the requirements
                                                                                                                                                                                                of a 150 gallon (72x18x24).

                                                                                                                                                                                                Compact flourescent bulbs are 55 watts in a 2" wide x 22" long package.
                                                                                                                                                                                                You could comfortably fit 3x2 bulbs to get 330 watts, but I think that's
                                                                                                                                                                                                way too much light. I think you need more like 2x2 = 220 watts. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                bulbs cost about $35-$40 each.


                                                                                                                                                                                                Deenerz@... said:
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > In a message dated 5/22/2005 8:07:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > nmunro@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > I have a problem with this lighting conversion thing, my tank is 90
                                                                                                                                                                                                > gallons
                                                                                                                                                                                                > meaning i need 360w of light...
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > or 10x 4ft fluros which is impossible to fit over my tank... any
                                                                                                                                                                                                > suggestions to alternatives?
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Have you looked into power compact flourescent lighting? I have one
                                                                                                                                                                                                > fixture
                                                                                                                                                                                                > that is 220 watts and is 4 feet by 6 1/4 inches. Mine is the low cost
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Jebo
                                                                                                                                                                                                > brand from China and cost $80.00 USD. It houses four compact flourescent
                                                                                                                                                                                                > bulbs. The same company makes a narrower fixture that holds only two of
                                                                                                                                                                                                > these
                                                                                                                                                                                                > bulbs. Combine the two to get about 330 watts. There are other brands
                                                                                                                                                                                                > that
                                                                                                                                                                                                > are probably of better quality but for me price was important at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11755 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                okay so if algae...what will it look like...will it look like seaweed I can just remove and then water changes to get rid of the green?
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Ken
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                From: secretlaw <secretlaw@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Mon, 23 May 2005 15:01:39 -0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP - GREEN WATER

                                                                                                                                                                                                If you didn't add anything or drop anything into the tank. Then I would 
                                                                                                                                                                                                say that is algae. You shouldn't place your fish tank beside or under 
                                                                                                                                                                                                the direct sunlihgt. You should move the tank away from the direct 
                                                                                                                                                                                                sunlight. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                                                                                
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                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11756 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Live food on-line?
                                                                                                                                                                                                Not really sure what you are looking for or where you are located. I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                been buying from Rainbow Meal Worms & have been happy over the past 15
                                                                                                                                                                                                years. They are located in Compton, CA.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                red-eye



                                                                                                                                                                                                At 04:00 PM 5/18/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                >Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >I'm looking for good places to order live food on-line. If seen a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                >but would like recomendations from the group.
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >Eric
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                >.
                                                                                                                                                                                                >Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                                >the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                >subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                                >in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11757 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                Ken, You don't have to look far to find the algae. The GREEN IS the
                                                                                                                                                                                                algae. You have suspended algae -- so much of it that it is turning
                                                                                                                                                                                                the water green with a soupy suspension of itself throughout your
                                                                                                                                                                                                water. Keeping the same conditions, changing the water only
                                                                                                                                                                                                stimulates the growth of more pea soup green algae. For one thing,
                                                                                                                                                                                                your 14 hours of lighting is way too much, especially if you have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                couple of hours of sunshine. You really don't need to move the
                                                                                                                                                                                                aquarium -- a couple of hours of sunshine will not in itself promote
                                                                                                                                                                                                algae -- but you'll need to cut way down on your artificial lighting
                                                                                                                                                                                                (4 hours should be more than enough in your case; 5 hours at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                most.), unless you want to move your tank away from the sunlight.
                                                                                                                                                                                                You haven't said if you have live plants. If you have them, add
                                                                                                                                                                                                more. If you don't have them, add them. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Iksnip@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > okay so if algae...what will it look like...will it look like
                                                                                                                                                                                                seaweed I can just remove and then water changes to get rid of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                green?
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Ken
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: secretlaw <secretlaw@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Sent: Mon, 23 May 2005 15:01:39 -0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > If you didn't add anything or drop anything into the tank. Then I
                                                                                                                                                                                                would
                                                                                                                                                                                                > say that is algae. You shouldn't place your fish tank beside or
                                                                                                                                                                                                under
                                                                                                                                                                                                > the direct sunlihgt. You should move the tank away from the direct
                                                                                                                                                                                                > sunlight.
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                important to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                subject line
                                                                                                                                                                                                > -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in
                                                                                                                                                                                                Advance for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11758 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                Some good (fine) mechanical filtration will clear it up real fast, too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                                                Ray Wetzel wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                > Ken, You don't have to look far to find the algae. The GREEN IS the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > algae. You have suspended algae -- so much of it that it is turning
                                                                                                                                                                                                > the water green with a soupy suspension of itself throughout your
                                                                                                                                                                                                > water. Keeping the same conditions, changing the water only
                                                                                                                                                                                                > stimulates the growth of more pea soup green algae. For one thing,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > your 14 hours of lighting is way too much, especially if you have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                > couple of hours of sunshine. You really don't need to move the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > aquarium -- a couple of hours of sunshine will not in itself promote
                                                                                                                                                                                                > algae -- but you'll need to cut way down on your artificial lighting
                                                                                                                                                                                                > (4 hours should be more than enough in your case; 5 hours at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > most.), unless you want to move your tank away from the sunlight.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > You haven't said if you have live plants. If you have them, add
                                                                                                                                                                                                > more. If you don't have them, add them. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                > \
                                                                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Iksnip@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > okay so if algae...what will it look like...will it look like
                                                                                                                                                                                                > seaweed I can just remove and then water changes to get rid of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > green?
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Ken
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > From: secretlaw <secretlaw@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Sent: Mon, 23 May 2005 15:01:39 -0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > If you didn't add anything or drop anything into the tank. Then I
                                                                                                                                                                                                > would
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > say that is algae. You shouldn't place your fish tank beside or
                                                                                                                                                                                                > under
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > the direct sunlihgt. You should move the tank away from the direct
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > sunlight.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                > important to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > subject line
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Advance for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                > important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                                > message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                                > subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11759 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                I do have live plants.  Is the best approach to basically find and remove anything green from the tank then? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Ken 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                From: Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Mon, 23 May 2005 16:42:01 -0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP - GREEN WATER

                                                                                                                                                                                                Ken,  You don't have to look far to find the algae.  The GREEN IS the 
                                                                                                                                                                                                algae.  You have suspended algae -- so much of it that it is turning 
                                                                                                                                                                                                the water green with a soupy suspension of itself throughout your 
                                                                                                                                                                                                water.  Keeping the same conditions, changing the water only 
                                                                                                                                                                                                stimulates the growth of more pea soup green algae.  For one thing, 
                                                                                                                                                                                                your 14 hours of lighting is way too much, especially if you have a 
                                                                                                                                                                                                couple of hours of sunshine.  You really don't need to move the 
                                                                                                                                                                                                aquarium -- a couple of hours of sunshine will not in itself promote 
                                                                                                                                                                                                algae -- but you'll need to cut way down on your artificial lighting 
                                                                                                                                                                                                (4 hours should be more than enough in your case; 5 hours at the 
                                                                                                                                                                                                most.), unless you want to move your tank away from the sunlight.  
                                                                                                                                                                                                You haven't said if you have live plants.  If you have them, add 
                                                                                                                                                                                                more.  If you don't have them, add them.   Ray                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                \                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Iksnip@a... wrote: > okay so if algae...what will it look like...will it look like seaweed I can just remove and then water changes to get rid of the green? > > Ken > > -----Original Message----- > From: secretlaw <secretlaw@y...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, 23 May 2005 15:01:39 -0000 > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP - GREEN WATER > > > If you didn't add anything or drop anything into the tank. Then I would > say that is algae. You shouldn't place your fish tank beside or under > the direct sunlihgt. You should move the tank away from the direct > sunlight. > > > > > > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks > . > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the > reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line > -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for > your help in this matter > Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> <FONT COLOR="#000099">What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! </FONT><A HREF="http://us.click.yahoo.com/TzSHvD/SOnJAA/79vVAA/ANOolB/TM"><B>Click Here!</B></A> --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks . Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11760 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Two male BPs fighting/seperated -Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                Not quite, but I'm worried about the other having no filtration.

                                                                                                                                                                                                I just found a chunk of algae on some driftwood; upon inspection I see
                                                                                                                                                                                                lots more. What should I do with this? Just scrape it off?

                                                                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                                On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 8:39 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Two male BPs fighting/seperated -Ray

                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi Leslie, Everything's fine here thanks, how's by you? Looks like I
                                                                                                                                                                                                was a little off in remembering the size tanks you have. The point I
                                                                                                                                                                                                was about to make was that in a smaller tank, these two guys might not
                                                                                                                                                                                                have enough room to each establish a territory of their own.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Sometimes, when put in a larger tank there's enough room that they can
                                                                                                                                                                                                both "work it out". In this case, the 75 is not that much bigger than
                                                                                                                                                                                                the 55, except its 6" wider -- which won't make too much difference in
                                                                                                                                                                                                their behavior. You could try building a labyrinth of rock work
                                                                                                                                                                                                towards each end of the 75 which each one can claim as their territory
                                                                                                                                                                                                (and dive into if need be). This strategy often works with New World
                                                                                                                                                                                                Cichlids. Also, as I see you're ready to make the move to the 75 on
                                                                                                                                                                                                Wednesday, I presume that tank has finished cycling(?) Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                                                                <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Hey Ray,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > I have a 15 gal. that I used as a timeout tank for the mean man when
                                                                                                                                                                                                he
                                                                                                                                                                                                > got some scales off my other one. Right now he is screened off in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > 55 gal getting ready to be moved to the 75 gal. =) He's still
                                                                                                                                                                                                screened
                                                                                                                                                                                                > in, so I'm just going to wait until I move him to see if that helps.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > I'm fairly certain it won't, so I went ahead and posted my concern. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                > might make a custom screen divider to keep him in depending on how
                                                                                                                                                                                                much
                                                                                                                                                                                                > room he will have. I think that might work well. Everything good
                                                                                                                                                                                                with
                                                                                                                                                                                                > you? =)
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Leslie





                                                                                                                                                                                                Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                .
                                                                                                                                                                                                Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important
                                                                                                                                                                                                to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                                                                                                the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                                                                Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11761 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                    You don't have to remove anything green from the water.  And you don't have to lower the lighting forever.  For a short-term end of the algae, you could close off the tank to all light with a thick sheet.  Of course, after the light is returned so will the algae.  And the algae might continue even with just 2 hours of natural light.  I don't really agree with the idea that shorter lighting will fix anything and cause more problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Lighting is not the only cause.  If you have live plants, you do need 10 - 12 hours of light.  Find the other cause.  Probably, you have phosphates.  You will need to remove whatever it is feeding the algae.  If you can find a fish store that can check your phosphate levels, find out how much you have.  If it is them, you can filter them out or use a RO unit to remove them.  I think that is a better, but more expensive, solution.  Another thing you could try is using water from another source that doesn't have phosphates, but that might be even more expensive in the long run. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Another thing you might look at is the exact lighting you have, and finding out if you need different lighting.  Somebody that knows about plants and lighting could help you figure that out.  What you have is an improper balance of nutrients.  Get them right, and the plants will out-grow the algae.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                                -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                I do have live plants.  Is the best approach to basically find and remove anything green from the tank then?
                                                                                                                                                                                                Ken
                                                                                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11762 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Two male BPs fighting/seperated -Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                Its very rare that the "screened in" area is so water tight that
                                                                                                                                                                                                water from the filtered side won't mix with the unfiltered side, no
                                                                                                                                                                                                matter how slowly. If you are going to put the both fish in the 75
                                                                                                                                                                                                on Thursday, I wouldn't worry about it too much, but you might want
                                                                                                                                                                                                to move the partition over a bit more, making the unfiltered section
                                                                                                                                                                                                larger. You don't say what you're using as divider material, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                with larger fish plastic "egg-crate" material, used for fluorescent
                                                                                                                                                                                                ceiling fixtures, is very popular as water can flow freely through
                                                                                                                                                                                                it. Normally, algae is not harmful, just unsightly -- you could just
                                                                                                                                                                                                scrape it off, unless you're planning to add an Otto Cat to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                tank. As this driftwood is quite new and hasn't been in the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                that long at all, it may be possible you have the lights on too
                                                                                                                                                                                                long. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                                                                <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Not quite, but I'm worried about the other having no filtration.
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > I just found a chunk of algae on some driftwood; upon inspection I
                                                                                                                                                                                                see
                                                                                                                                                                                                > lots more. What should I do with this? Just scrape it off?
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                                > On Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 8:39 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Two male BPs fighting/seperated -Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Hi Leslie, Everything's fine here thanks, how's by you? Looks
                                                                                                                                                                                                like I
                                                                                                                                                                                                > was a little off in remembering the size tanks you have. The point
                                                                                                                                                                                                I
                                                                                                                                                                                                > was about to make was that in a smaller tank, these two guys might
                                                                                                                                                                                                not
                                                                                                                                                                                                > have enough room to each establish a territory of their own.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Sometimes, when put in a larger tank there's enough room that they
                                                                                                                                                                                                can
                                                                                                                                                                                                > both "work it out". In this case, the 75 is not that much bigger
                                                                                                                                                                                                than
                                                                                                                                                                                                > the 55, except its 6" wider -- which won't make too much difference
                                                                                                                                                                                                in
                                                                                                                                                                                                > their behavior. You could try building a labyrinth of rock work
                                                                                                                                                                                                > towards each end of the 75 which each one can claim as their
                                                                                                                                                                                                territory
                                                                                                                                                                                                > (and dive into if need be). This strategy often works with New
                                                                                                                                                                                                World
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Cichlids. Also, as I see you're ready to make the move to the 75
                                                                                                                                                                                                on
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Wednesday, I presume that tank has finished cycling(?)
                                                                                                                                                                                                Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                \

                                                                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                                                                > <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Hey Ray,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > I have a 15 gal. that I used as a timeout tank for the mean man
                                                                                                                                                                                                when
                                                                                                                                                                                                > he
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > got some scales off my other one. Right now he is screened off
                                                                                                                                                                                                in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > 55 gal getting ready to be moved to the 75 gal. =) He's still
                                                                                                                                                                                                > screened
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > in, so I'm just going to wait until I move him to see if that
                                                                                                                                                                                                helps.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > I'm fairly certain it won't, so I went ahead and posted my
                                                                                                                                                                                                concern. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > might make a custom screen divider to keep him in depending on
                                                                                                                                                                                                how
                                                                                                                                                                                                > much
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > room he will have. I think that might work well. Everything
                                                                                                                                                                                                good
                                                                                                                                                                                                > with
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > you? =)
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Leslie
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                important
                                                                                                                                                                                                > to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message
                                                                                                                                                                                                modify
                                                                                                                                                                                                > the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11763 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: tank placement
                                                                                                                                                                                                At 09:02 PM 5/21/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                >Back when I had a basement, and I had all my tanks in the basement, I used a
                                                                                                                                                                                                >plastic garbage pail to collect the water, and s pump to pump it
                                                                                                                                                                                                >out--outside to the close in gardens during warm weather, and inside to a
                                                                                                                                                                                                >drain, but higher than the garbage pail. Since you may not have a garden,
                                                                                                                                                                                                >you could use a python, if the drain in lower than your tank so you can
                                                                                                                                                                                                >maintain a siphon, or use a variation on the pail and pump I used to use. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                >was using a python, so I could also deliver water to the tanks without
                                                                                                                                                                                                >having to haul it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >\\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >______


                                                                                                                                                                                                Steve how did you treat the water using a python?
                                                                                                                                                                                                My back wants to know
                                                                                                                                                                                                regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11764 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                Ken, I guess you didn't read my post too carefully. I suggested
                                                                                                                                                                                                that if you have plant, ADD MORE. If you don't have plants, ADD
                                                                                                                                                                                                THEM. I'm glad to see you do have plants; do not remove them, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                instead add some more plants to your tank, and cut down on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                lighting duration. The plants will take up the nutrients that the
                                                                                                                                                                                                algae is now using, essentially starving them out. As algae thrives
                                                                                                                                                                                                on excessive light, cutting that down will stop your algae from
                                                                                                                                                                                                blooming. There are mechanical filtration systems that will filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                out this algae, but this would only be a temporary fix, as the algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                would only come back again under your present conditions. With your
                                                                                                                                                                                                couple hours of sunlight, you do not need nearly the 14 hours of
                                                                                                                                                                                                artificial lighting you are now giving the tank. even after you get
                                                                                                                                                                                                things under control. With two hours of morning sun, I've had tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                where the plants were literally growing out of the tank and blooming,
                                                                                                                                                                                                with the addition of 5 hours of artificial lighting in the evening,
                                                                                                                                                                                                for years at a time (and with absolutley no algae). If you prefer to
                                                                                                                                                                                                use 14 hours of artificial lighting after you clear up your algae,
                                                                                                                                                                                                then by all means, you will have to move the tank away from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                sunlight its now receiving. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Iksnip@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > I do have live plants. Is the best approach to basically find and
                                                                                                                                                                                                remove anything green from the tank then?
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Ken
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Sent: Mon, 23 May 2005 16:42:01 -0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Ken, You don't have to look far to find the algae. The GREEN IS
                                                                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > algae. You have suspended algae -- so much of it that it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                turning
                                                                                                                                                                                                > the water green with a soupy suspension of itself throughout your
                                                                                                                                                                                                > water. Keeping the same conditions, changing the water only
                                                                                                                                                                                                > stimulates the growth of more pea soup green algae. For one thing,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > your 14 hours of lighting is way too much, especially if you have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                > couple of hours of sunshine. You really don't need to move the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > aquarium -- a couple of hours of sunshine will not in itself
                                                                                                                                                                                                promote
                                                                                                                                                                                                > algae -- but you'll need to cut way down on your artificial
                                                                                                                                                                                                lighting
                                                                                                                                                                                                > (4 hours should be more than enough in your case; 5 hours at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > most.), unless you want to move your tank away from the sunlight.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > You haven't said if you have live plants. If you have them, add
                                                                                                                                                                                                > more. If you don't have them, add them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                                                                > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Iksnip@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > okay so if algae...what will it look like...will it look like
                                                                                                                                                                                                > seaweed I can just remove and then water changes to get rid of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > green?
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Ken
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > From: secretlaw <secretlaw@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Sent: Mon, 23 May 2005 15:01:39 -0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > If you didn't add anything or drop anything into the tank. Then I
                                                                                                                                                                                                > would
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > say that is algae. You shouldn't place your fish tank beside or
                                                                                                                                                                                                > under
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > the direct sunlihgt. You should move the tank away from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                direct
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > sunlight.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                > important to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify
                                                                                                                                                                                                the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > subject line
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Advance for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                important to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                subject line
                                                                                                                                                                                                > -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in
                                                                                                                                                                                                Advance for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11765 From: Iksnip@aol.com Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                thanks for the input ray.  Actually when i meant remove all green I meant anything that looks like Algae :)  Definetly going to addmore plants this weekend though :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                thanks for the helpful advice!

                                                                                                                                                                                                Ken
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11766 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: FW: Small White Specks on my Heater
                                                                                                                                                                                                And let me make a correction. More accurately, I probably should have said
                                                                                                                                                                                                silica rather than silicone. Sorry.

                                                                                                                                                                                                \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 7:14 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW: Small White Specks on my Heater

                                                                                                                                                                                                Angela, Since these specks are NOT ONLY on the heater as you first
                                                                                                                                                                                                suggested, but also on the aquarium glass, that does change things
                                                                                                                                                                                                immensely. I was about to add that if you had one of the newer
                                                                                                                                                                                                unbreakable metal (stainless steel and titanium) heaters such as those
                                                                                                                                                                                                put out by Via Aqua or Pro-Heat, they might be more prone to attracting
                                                                                                                                                                                                mineral deposits, but since this is now also on the glass sides I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                to go along with Steve in saying it sounds more like Diatoms. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, angelasjenkins@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > The specks are below the water line. I've removed some, they're
                                                                                                                                                                                                hard. Some are on the glass of the aquarium on a side not near the
                                                                                                                                                                                                heater. I"m baffled!
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Angela
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Angela,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Have you tried removing one or more of these white specks? Are the
                                                                                                                                                                                                white specks above the current water line?
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11767 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                Ken,

                                                                                                                                                                                                As others have mentioned, you do have algae. While in some cases this is
                                                                                                                                                                                                desired, when raising fry for example, your post indicates that this is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                desirable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                You mentioned that this is a new tank--prime candidate for this type of
                                                                                                                                                                                                algae to develop.

                                                                                                                                                                                                You mentioned a pH of 7.8, is this close to that of your tap water? If so,
                                                                                                                                                                                                OK. If not, what are you doing to reach that pH (up or down)?

                                                                                                                                                                                                You say your nitrogenous waste levels are normal. What do you consider to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                normal? Exactly what are the measurements?

                                                                                                                                                                                                You say you are supplying 14 hours of light per day, plus some sunlight
                                                                                                                                                                                                during the day. You do not mention how much light you provide or what kind.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Is it 10 watts or 1000 watts. Incandescent or fluorescent? Color
                                                                                                                                                                                                temperature, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Algae of any type need a few things to grow. Food and Light are major ones.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Food is supplied by your nitrogenous wastes and carbon dioxide, hence the
                                                                                                                                                                                                question about your measurements above.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Light should optimally be about 10-12 hours a day. Since you also are
                                                                                                                                                                                                getting sunlight, you probably need to adjust your lighting schedule around
                                                                                                                                                                                                the sunlight availability. If you are getting sunlight from, say 2 PM to 6
                                                                                                                                                                                                PM, set your lights to come on at 6 PM, and go off at midnight--an
                                                                                                                                                                                                inexpensive timer would be a help here.

                                                                                                                                                                                                With your lighting on a more rational schedule, start looking for what is
                                                                                                                                                                                                supplying the food for the algae. Again, your nitrogenous wastes are suspect
                                                                                                                                                                                                here. Also mentioned in another post is phosphorus. If your ammonia = 0 ppm,
                                                                                                                                                                                                and your nitrites are also 0, with your nitrates below 50 ppm, you are
                                                                                                                                                                                                probably OK here, and can then start looking at the phosphates as being a
                                                                                                                                                                                                helping cause. There are test kits available to test for phosphates, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                products designed to remove them, but I have experience with neither--other
                                                                                                                                                                                                may be able to give you recommendations should this be the case.

                                                                                                                                                                                                You mention that you are losing fish. Are you finding them in the morning or
                                                                                                                                                                                                at other times during the day? If you are finding them in the morning, then
                                                                                                                                                                                                I would suspect carbon dioxide as the cause. Using an oxygen test kit will
                                                                                                                                                                                                help you determine this. Measure the oxygen level in the tank prior to
                                                                                                                                                                                                turning off the lights at night, and then in the morning before the tank has
                                                                                                                                                                                                had a chance to get much light. You may find that there is a substantial
                                                                                                                                                                                                difference. While the algae, and the other plants, will produce oxygen when
                                                                                                                                                                                                provided with light, they consume it at night, producing carbon dioxide, the
                                                                                                                                                                                                same gas they take in during the day. Should this be the case, you will
                                                                                                                                                                                                probably want to add more turbulence during the dark hours to help with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                gaseous transfer between the water and the atmosphere.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Changing water is problematic. When you change the water, you may be giving
                                                                                                                                                                                                the algae a new feast to consume, thereby leading to a new burst of activity
                                                                                                                                                                                                and reproduction. So, grit your teeth, and hold off on the water changes for
                                                                                                                                                                                                the time being.

                                                                                                                                                                                                It will take a while, but you should be able to beat this stuff.

                                                                                                                                                                                                \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                                                From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                Behalf Of Iksnip@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:46 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP - GREEN WATER


                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi Guys,

                                                                                                                                                                                                Okay so I have a 75 gallon tank and my water is COMPLETELY green. Why? I
                                                                                                                                                                                                have changed the filters and put new carbon in the media cartridges. I used
                                                                                                                                                                                                some of those white things you drop in the water (nothing). People claim it
                                                                                                                                                                                                is algae but maybe I am not sure what I am looking for. I have fish dying.
                                                                                                                                                                                                How do I fix this problem? I did a 60% water change but it didnt do
                                                                                                                                                                                                anything. I tested my water and except for a high ph (7.8) the
                                                                                                                                                                                                nitrite/nitrate/amonnia levels appeared normal. People keep asking me
                                                                                                                                                                                                certain questions. Apparently I have been leaving the flourescent lights on
                                                                                                                                                                                                to many hours a day (maybe 14 hours) and although the tank gets some
                                                                                                                                                                                                sunlight it isnt directly in front of any window.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Ken
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11768 From: paul helms Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                there is phosphorus added to most fresh water fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                food to produce color....if you over feed, you add a
                                                                                                                                                                                                lot of phosphate. this wil sound funny, but when
                                                                                                                                                                                                clients have green water, i usually iincrease the
                                                                                                                                                                                                light time. this causes free floating algae to
                                                                                                                                                                                                quickly latch on to surfaces where it can be cleaned
                                                                                                                                                                                                up by algae eaters....a matter of a few days
                                                                                                                                                                                                --- "Patrick, AAFG" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > You don't have to remove anything green from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > water. And you don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                > have to lower the lighting forever. For a
                                                                                                                                                                                                > short-term end of the algae, you
                                                                                                                                                                                                > could close off the tank to all light with a thick
                                                                                                                                                                                                > sheet. Of course, after
                                                                                                                                                                                                > the light is returned so will the algae. And the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > algae might continue even
                                                                                                                                                                                                > with just 2 hours of natural light. I don't really
                                                                                                                                                                                                > agree with the idea that
                                                                                                                                                                                                > shorter lighting will fix anything and cause more
                                                                                                                                                                                                > problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Lighting is not the only cause. If you have
                                                                                                                                                                                                > live plants, you do need 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                > - 12 hours of light. Find the other cause.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Probably, you have phosphates.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > You will need to remove whatever it is feeding the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > algae. If you can find a
                                                                                                                                                                                                > fish store that can check your phosphate levels,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > find out how much you have.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > If it is them, you can filter them out or use a RO
                                                                                                                                                                                                > unit to remove them. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                > think that is a better, but more expensive,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > solution. Another thing you
                                                                                                                                                                                                > could try is using water from another source that
                                                                                                                                                                                                > doesn't have phosphates,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > but that might be even more expensive in the long
                                                                                                                                                                                                > run.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Another thing you might look at is the exact
                                                                                                                                                                                                > lighting you have, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                > finding out if you need different lighting.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Somebody that knows about
                                                                                                                                                                                                > plants and lighting could help you figure that out.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > What you have is an
                                                                                                                                                                                                > improper balance of nutrients. Get them right, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                > the plants will out-grow
                                                                                                                                                                                                > the algae.
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > "Now this is not the end. It is not even the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > beginning of the end. But it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                > perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                                > -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                                > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                > I do have live plants. Is the best approach to
                                                                                                                                                                                                > basically find and remove
                                                                                                                                                                                                > anything green from the tank then?
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Ken



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                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11769 From: paul helms Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                you have free floating micro algae, the same stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                                that grows in a film on glass. sea weed and the like
                                                                                                                                                                                                are desireable macro algaes that out compete free
                                                                                                                                                                                                floating algae for food
                                                                                                                                                                                                --- Iksnip@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > okay so if algae...what will it look like...will it
                                                                                                                                                                                                > look like seaweed I can just remove and then water
                                                                                                                                                                                                > changes to get rid of the green?
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Ken
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: secretlaw <secretlaw@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Sent: Mon, 23 May 2005 15:01:39 -0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > If you didn't add anything or drop anything into the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > tank. Then I would
                                                                                                                                                                                                > say that is algae. You shouldn't place your fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                > tank beside or under
                                                                                                                                                                                                > the direct sunlihgt. You should move the tank away
                                                                                                                                                                                                > from the direct
                                                                                                                                                                                                > sunlight.
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                                                > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                                                > that is not important to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                                > message modify the subject line
                                                                                                                                                                                                > -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Thank You in Advance for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11770 From: paul helms Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: a question
                                                                                                                                                                                                not bloody likely...i say within a 45 days teh tinfoil
                                                                                                                                                                                                will be dead
                                                                                                                                                                                                --- kb1dva <vze3pd7a@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Will a large tinfoil barb be ok in a tank with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                > large pacu
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >



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                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11771 From: paul helms Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: REUPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                                you are on a different story than i am. i am not
                                                                                                                                                                                                talking about ammonia removers, but the stronger
                                                                                                                                                                                                formulas that remove nitrate directly, such as amquel
                                                                                                                                                                                                +. they are stating that products like stress zyme
                                                                                                                                                                                                are coating the bettas gills and makeing life
                                                                                                                                                                                                difficult for them leading to stress and infections in
                                                                                                                                                                                                a few weeks. i was referring to a direct statement
                                                                                                                                                                                                from wholesaler to me when ordering for teh store.
                                                                                                                                                                                                funny part is that the fish that we did not add
                                                                                                                                                                                                anything but straight amquel to lived and the ones who
                                                                                                                                                                                                we used live bacteria with died. we have stopped
                                                                                                                                                                                                treating the water for the bettas, and just top off
                                                                                                                                                                                                the quart tanks they are kept in with tap water, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                there are no problems.lol
                                                                                                                                                                                                --- "Patrick, AAFG" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > You do know they are using that as an excuse for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > having poor-quality
                                                                                                                                                                                                > stock, don't you. :) It seems odd that these
                                                                                                                                                                                                > products, which are used by
                                                                                                                                                                                                > millions with no apparent problems on other fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > would only cause death in
                                                                                                                                                                                                > bettas. It is probably related to the idea of doing
                                                                                                                                                                                                > 100% water changes of
                                                                                                                                                                                                > the unfiltered quart bowls every week using aged
                                                                                                                                                                                                > water. The story says that
                                                                                                                                                                                                > if you just use fresh tap water treated for chlorine
                                                                                                                                                                                                > it will kill the fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > It isn't remotely based on any facts as far as I
                                                                                                                                                                                                > know (from experience I
                                                                                                                                                                                                > know that young bettas grow as well with 75%
                                                                                                                                                                                                > tri-daily changes in quart
                                                                                                                                                                                                > bowls as in 1 gallon tanks with weekly 50% changes),
                                                                                                                                                                                                > but is still spread by
                                                                                                                                                                                                > a lot of web sites.
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > "Now this is not the end. It is not even the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > beginning of the end. But it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                > perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                                > -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                                > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > betta distributors are stating that adding water
                                                                                                                                                                                                > treatment chemicals such as novaqua, amquel, stress
                                                                                                                                                                                                > zyme, etc are now leading to death in bettas. the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > are developing ick and or bacteria quickly in tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                > using anything but tap or distilled water



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                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11772 From: paul helms Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: rock cleaning
                                                                                                                                                                                                leave it
                                                                                                                                                                                                --- wantvws <rml1963@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > I haven't gotten to setting up my 210 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                > yet....I still need
                                                                                                                                                                                                > to clean the large rocks, for one. There seems to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                > a green "fur" on
                                                                                                                                                                                                > a lot of them...I suppose this is old algae? They
                                                                                                                                                                                                > have been in storage
                                                                                                                                                                                                > for about 5 years. Do I need to try and scrub this
                                                                                                                                                                                                > stuff off of them,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > or will it be fine to leave it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >



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                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11773 From: paul helms Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: REUPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                                this seems to be just an issue with the current strain
                                                                                                                                                                                                of bettas in california. prime is fine, but the
                                                                                                                                                                                                novaqua could cause problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > paul, this is not good news for me! i use prime and
                                                                                                                                                                                                > nova aqua+ to dechlorify my tap water, depending
                                                                                                                                                                                                > upon what i have at the time, for my freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                > aquariums. i use my distilled r/o water for my
                                                                                                                                                                                                > salwater tanks. should i also use the distilled
                                                                                                                                                                                                > water for my freshwater tanks now, too?
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > betta distributors are stating that adding water
                                                                                                                                                                                                > treatment chemicals such as novaqua, amquel, stress
                                                                                                                                                                                                > zyme, etc are now leading to death in bettas. the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > are
                                                                                                                                                                                                > developing ick and or bacteria quickly in tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                > using
                                                                                                                                                                                                > anything but tap or distilled water
                                                                                                                                                                                                > --- fuzzybpebble <fuzzybpebble@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > My Female Betta that I had just bought a tank for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > died today. I am
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > not going to do anymore bettas after losing so
                                                                                                                                                                                                > many
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > of them so
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > quickly. My guppies are all doing great. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > babies die quickly if I
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > do not have them with the adults. They seem to
                                                                                                                                                                                                > lose
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > the will to
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > live. So all of my guppies are now in one tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > that being the 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > gallon tank. Everyone is doing great. Added a
                                                                                                                                                                                                > new
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > stone decoration
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > to the tank today. I will stay with guppies.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > They
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > are easy to take
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > care of and love the Hornwort plants that are in
                                                                                                                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > tank with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Bethany
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
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                                                                                                                                                                                                > Valeen Robertson Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >



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                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11774 From: paul helms Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                                seasonal changes are one thing, but the nitrate levels
                                                                                                                                                                                                do not change. the epa has branches, and does not
                                                                                                                                                                                                have the same mandates in all states at the same time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                just like gas in nevada can't have additives like
                                                                                                                                                                                                mtbe, our water is much different that water on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                other side of teh copuntry
                                                                                                                                                                                                --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                > the water companies here in the bay, depending upon
                                                                                                                                                                                                > the city and/or county, are always advertising
                                                                                                                                                                                                > different water changes (i work at a newspaper and
                                                                                                                                                                                                > see the ads often) but who the heck pays attention
                                                                                                                                                                                                > and can keep track of all of them?!?! i certainly
                                                                                                                                                                                                > don't and i bet paul doesn't, either.
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:Paul,
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > And what does the water company have to say about
                                                                                                                                                                                                > the nitrate level?
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 1:11 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > well here in ca, municipal water is between 30-40
                                                                                                                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                                                                                                                > i have tested all over town!
                                                                                                                                                                                                > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Nope, the water that comes out of your tap should
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > have less than 10 ppm of
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > nitrate. If you are on a municipal system, have
                                                                                                                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > water company send you
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > over the latest analysis of the water to see what
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > their figures show. There
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > is a lot of chicanery that goes on in this area,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > from what I have been able
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > to gather. The company that supplies water in DC
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > just got clipped for lead
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > levels that were too high, even though they might
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > not be responsible for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > some of the contaminant as a number of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > residences that are involved have
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > lead in the in house piping. Apparently the EPA
                                                                                                                                                                                                > had
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > been aware of this for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > some time before taking any action. Then there was
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > the finger pointing about
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > who knew what when and so on and so forth. It was
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > quite a show for a time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > However, in the case of nitrates, there is nothing
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > of which I am aware that
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > will increase the level in your water supply, once
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > the water has been
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > treated and sent on its way to your home. If you
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > have well water, there are
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > a number of things that can affect the nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                > level
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > from season to season,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > and these would need to be accounted for in your
                                                                                                                                                                                                > use
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > of the water for fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > As I have alluded to before, I am a bit wary when
                                                                                                                                                                                                > it
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > comes to the "science"
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > that the government uses to set limits on what is
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > good and what is bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > you. There was an interesting little chart in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Washington _Post_ the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > other day about what has been considered obese by
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > the government over the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > last 50 years or so. The measurement has bounced
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > around a bit over that
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > period of time. Looking at my weight, according to
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > the government, I am
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > obese, but to look at me, you would never know it
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > <g>.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 12:46 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > by drinking water do you mean purified water? i
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > assume so, as patrick is correct in what he stated
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > about tap water. mine comes out between 35 and 40
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > on
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > Patrick,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > The EPA has set, for drinking water, a Maximum
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > Contaminant Level of 10 ppm
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > nitrate for drinking water. Their rational seems
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > be that excessive
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > amounts of nitrate can affect an infant's
                                                                                                                                                                                                > health,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > however, there is no
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > statement as to what is considered excessive.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > The
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > MCL was set at 10 ppm
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > because the EPA believes this to be the lowest
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > level
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > that can be achieved
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > with current technology, not that anything above
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > this level is harmful. This
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > is the way the EPA, and other government
                                                                                                                                                                                                > agencies
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > work, rather than
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > following any real science on the topic in
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > question.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > I don't have time right now to try to track down
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > allowable limits for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > humans. However, just because it may be bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > and me, does not mean it
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > will be bad for another species. Take, for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > example,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > mercury levels in fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > It does not seem to adversely affect the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > populations, but, eating the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > fish that are contaminated with mercury can lead
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > adverse affects in
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > humans. I would suspect that further research
                                                                                                                                                                                                > into
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > that topic would reveal a
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > level of contamination that would adversely
                                                                                                                                                                                                > affect
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > the fish, but both in
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > fish and humans, this is a cumulative effect.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > Now, does this mean we should ignore nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > levels
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > in our aquariums? Of
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > course not. However, the panic I see in some
                                                                                                                                                                                                > posts
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > here about nitrate levels
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > in the water are simply uncalled for. Simple
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > regular
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > water changes should
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > keep levels in check. Plants in the aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                > will
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > also help. Checking your
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > tap water vs. the published level from your
                                                                                                                                                                                                > water
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > supplier. If the level
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > differs by a large amount, then your test kit is
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > suspect. For those of you
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > who have your own water supply (read on well
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > water),
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > it may be wise to ship
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > off a sample of your water, from time to time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > have it tested by a
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > respected testing company, and then you can use
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > those figures as a
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > comparison to your tests.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > Yes, high nitrate levels are suspect in some
                                                                                                                                                                                                > fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > conditions, as I mentioned
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > in an earlier post, and we are generally talking
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > about very high levels of
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > nitrate. And, for most of the species involved,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > their diet will generally
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > lead to the high nitrate levels if one does not
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > diligently work to keep them
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > in check. Still no need to panic.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > If you want to panic about nitrate, wait until
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > levels reach more than
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > 400--then panic.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > BTW, if a mouse drinks more than 100 times the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > amount of diet soda that a
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > normal person can be expected to consume in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > short
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > period of time, bad
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > things happen to that mouse. Likely, if you
                                                                                                                                                                                                > drank
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > as
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > much diet soda as that
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > mouse, bad things would happen to you as well,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > even
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > if you have not been
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > bred to have certain susceptibilities, as the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > mice
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > have.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                === message truncated ===




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                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11775 From: Ted Angelo Date: 5/23/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: bristlenose breeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                i was wondering if anyone can give me tips on how to make my
                                                                                                                                                                                                bristlenose spawn, i have 1 male and 1 female in a 20 gallon tank with
                                                                                                                                                                                                plenty of hiding places, the female is 2.5 inches long and the male is
                                                                                                                                                                                                3.5 inches long. thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11776 From: Crazy4fids@aol.com Date: 5/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: water hardness, ph and water softners
                                                                                                                                                                                                Hello Group! 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                I have been keeping fish for many years and have never had a water test kit.  Since being on this list, I have learned so much more that I thought I knew.  I dropped out of chemistry in high school - it was just too difficult for me to understand. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Now it looks that with my new 150 gallon tank I will be setting up, I should learn more about water quality.  Our new house in a city that treats its water with chlorine and fluoride.  Our new house also has a water softener.  I plan on having the water tested by the county to find out what my baseline will be.  My concern is with the water softener.  I heard that it will add sodium to my aquarium water and will become toxic to my fish?  Did I hear someone say that I can use the potassium water softener pellets in my softener and this would be ok for the fish?  Or maybe I should consider bypassing the water softener and get my tank water from the outside tap?
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Can anybody recommend a good web site that can help me understand BASIC water qualities (like pH, dH, hardness, etc).  Please remember I dropped out of chemistry and had a very difficult time in algebra.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Linda
                                                                                                                                                                                                River Falls, WI
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11777 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                Ken, I believe you may be confused as to what algae is (i.e., what
                                                                                                                                                                                                you are looking for). First of all, there are many types of algae --
                                                                                                                                                                                                string algae, hair algae, brown algae, suspended algae, etc., etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                The giant seaweed found in the oceans are types of algae. In your
                                                                                                                                                                                                case, the green of the water is the algae; you cannot just remove it
                                                                                                                                                                                                as if it were in a strand. This is caused by a single cell
                                                                                                                                                                                                Flagellate (Class) of the genera Euglena, which are free-swimming
                                                                                                                                                                                                algae, which do not grow in strands nor in colonies on rocks or the
                                                                                                                                                                                                glass sides of the aquarium such as the green algae of the Class
                                                                                                                                                                                                Chlorophyceae do. As a temporary measure, it can physically be
                                                                                                                                                                                                removed by filtering the water with the use of a diatom filter. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Iksnip@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > okay so if algae...what will it look like...will it look like
                                                                                                                                                                                                seaweed I can just remove and then water changes to get rid of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                green?
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Ken
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: secretlaw <secretlaw@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Sent: Mon, 23 May 2005 15:01:39 -0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > If you didn't add anything or drop anything into the tank. Then I
                                                                                                                                                                                                would
                                                                                                                                                                                                > say that is algae. You shouldn't place your fish tank beside or
                                                                                                                                                                                                under
                                                                                                                                                                                                > the direct sunlihgt. You should move the tank away from the direct
                                                                                                                                                                                                > sunlight.
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying,
                                                                                                                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                important to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                subject line
                                                                                                                                                                                                > -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in
                                                                                                                                                                                                Advance for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11778 From: Ron Hansen Date: 5/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: bristlenose breeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                Go to the Brooklyn Aquarium Society http://www.brooklynaquariumsociety.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                and ask there. One of the officers is a breeder of them and he can give
                                                                                                                                                                                                you tips.



                                                                                                                                                                                                Ted Angelo said:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > i was wondering if anyone can give me tips on how to make my
                                                                                                                                                                                                > bristlenose spawn, i have 1 male and 1 female in a 20 gallon tank with
                                                                                                                                                                                                > plenty of hiding places, the female is 2.5 inches long and the male is
                                                                                                                                                                                                > 3.5 inches long. thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                                > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                                > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11779 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                Ken, Would just like to add a few pointers. First-off, realizing the
                                                                                                                                                                                                type of algae problem you have, it was assumed this was the reason your
                                                                                                                                                                                                fish are dying and with the clearing up of this algae, these fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                deaths should disappear. As was pointed out all plants, including
                                                                                                                                                                                                primitive protozoan type algae (such as what you have), containing
                                                                                                                                                                                                chloroplasts use oxygen in the absence of light (at night) and give off
                                                                                                                                                                                                carbon dioxide -- just the opposite of what they do during the day. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                would have to guess your fish deaths are being found in the morning as
                                                                                                                                                                                                a result of this. For now, it might not be a bad idea to try
                                                                                                                                                                                                eliminating your sunlight illumination, with a blind or shade and/or
                                                                                                                                                                                                using a backgound on your tank until you get things under control. If
                                                                                                                                                                                                you have access to a diatom filter, all the better. You certainly do
                                                                                                                                                                                                not need more light, and should consider shortening the duration of
                                                                                                                                                                                                your artificial lighting. It would be helpful to know your light
                                                                                                                                                                                                intensity here, but in any case, you're obviously getting too much
                                                                                                                                                                                                light and in spite of your "normal" nitrate readings this may be
                                                                                                                                                                                                another factor, as it seems you may be high in some type(s) of plant
                                                                                                                                                                                                nutrients. One important thing here is that you do not want this type
                                                                                                                                                                                                of algae to suddenly crash, resulting in mass decay of it. Such an
                                                                                                                                                                                                occurance can possibly deplete the tank of oxygen in short time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                causing the death of your remaining fish stock. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                \
                                                                                                                                                                                                --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Iksnip@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > thanks for the input ray. Actually when i meant remove all green I
                                                                                                                                                                                                meant
                                                                                                                                                                                                > anything that looks like Algae :) Definetly going to addmore plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                this weekend
                                                                                                                                                                                                > though :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > thanks for the helpful advice!
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Ken
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11780 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                                true!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                > seasonal changes are one thing, but the nitrate levels
                                                                                                                                                                                                > do not change. the epa has branches, and does not
                                                                                                                                                                                                > have the same mandates in all states at the same time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > just like gas in nevada can't have additives like
                                                                                                                                                                                                > mtbe, our water is much different that water on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > other side of teh copuntry
                                                                                                                                                                                                > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > the water companies here in the bay, depending upon
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > the city and/or county, are always advertising
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > different water changes (i work at a newspaper and
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > see the ads often) but who the heck pays attention
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > and can keep track of all of them?!?! i certainly
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > don't and i bet paul doesn't, either.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:Paul,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > And what does the water company have to say about
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > the nitrate level?
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 1:11 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > well here in ca, municipal water is between 30-40
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > and
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > i have tested all over town!
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > Nope, the water that comes out of your tap should
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > have less than 10 ppm of
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > nitrate. If you are on a municipal system, have
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > water company send you
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > over the latest analysis of the water to see what
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > their figures show. There
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > is a lot of chicanery that goes on in this area,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > from what I have been able
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > to gather. The company that supplies water in DC
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > just got clipped for lead
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > levels that were too high, even though they might
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > not be responsible for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > some of the contaminant as a number of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > residences that are involved have
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > lead in the in house piping. Apparently the EPA
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > had
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > been aware of this for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > some time before taking any action. Then there was
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > the finger pointing about
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > who knew what when and so on and so forth. It was
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > quite a show for a time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > However, in the case of nitrates, there is nothing
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > of which I am aware that
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > will increase the level in your water supply, once
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > the water has been
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > treated and sent on its way to your home. If you
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > have well water, there are
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > a number of things that can affect the nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > level
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > from season to season,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > and these would need to be accounted for in your
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > use
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > of the water for fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > As I have alluded to before, I am a bit wary when
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > it
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > comes to the "science"
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > that the government uses to set limits on what is
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > good and what is bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > you. There was an interesting little chart in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > Washington _Post_ the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > other day about what has been considered obese by
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > the government over the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > last 50 years or so. The measurement has bounced
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > around a bit over that
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > period of time. Looking at my weight, according to
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > the government, I am
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > obese, but to look at me, you would never know it
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > <g>.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 12:46 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] nitrates -> a question
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > by drinking water do you mean purified water? i
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > assume so, as patrick is correct in what he stated
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > about tap water. mine comes out between 35 and 40
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > on
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > Patrick,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > The EPA has set, for drinking water, a Maximum
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > Contaminant Level of 10 ppm
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > nitrate for drinking water. Their rational seems
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > be that excessive
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > amounts of nitrate can affect an infant's
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > health,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > however, there is no
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > statement as to what is considered excessive.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > The
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > MCL was set at 10 ppm
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > because the EPA believes this to be the lowest
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > level
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > that can be achieved
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > with current technology, not that anything above
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > this level is harmful. This
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > is the way the EPA, and other government
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > agencies
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > work, rather than
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > following any real science on the topic in
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > question.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > I don't have time right now to try to track down
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > allowable limits for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > humans. However, just because it may be bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > and me, does not mean it
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > will be bad for another species. Take, for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > example,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > mercury levels in fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > It does not seem to adversely affect the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > populations, but, eating the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > fish that are contaminated with mercury can lead
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > adverse affects in
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > humans. I would suspect that further research
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > into
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > that topic would reveal a
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > level of contamination that would adversely
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > affect
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > the fish, but both in
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > fish and humans, this is a cumulative effect.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > Now, does this mean we should ignore nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > levels
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > in our aquariums? Of
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > course not. However, the panic I see in some
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > posts
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > here about nitrate levels
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > in the water are simply uncalled for. Simple
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > regular
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > water changes should
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > keep levels in check. Plants in the aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > will
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > also help. Checking your
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > tap water vs. the published level from your
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > water
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > supplier. If the level
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > differs by a large amount, then your test kit is
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > suspect. For those of you
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > who have your own water supply (read on well
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > water),
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > it may be wise to ship
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > off a sample of your water, from time to time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > have it tested by a
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > respected testing company, and then you can use
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > those figures as a
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > comparison to your tests.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > Yes, high nitrate levels are suspect in some
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > conditions, as I mentioned
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > in an earlier post, and we are generally talking
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > about very high levels of
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > nitrate. And, for most of the species involved,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > their diet will generally
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > lead to the high nitrate levels if one does not
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > diligently work to keep them
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > in check. Still no need to panic.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > If you want to panic about nitrate, wait until
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > levels reach more than
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > 400--then panic.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > BTW, if a mouse drinks more than 100 times the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > amount of diet soda that a
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > normal person can be expected to consume in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > short
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > period of time, bad
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > things happen to that mouse. Likely, if you
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > drank
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > as
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > much diet soda as that
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > mouse, bad things would happen to you as well,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > even
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > if you have not been
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > bred to have certain susceptibilities, as the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > mice
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > have.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > === message truncated ===
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
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                                                                                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                                                                                Valeen Robertson Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11781 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: REUPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                                ok, i'll just stick with prime then. i would prefer not to have to use my distilled water for my
                                                                                                                                                                                                fw fish, too, as my sw tanks suck it all up!

                                                                                                                                                                                                --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                > this seems to be just an issue with the current strain
                                                                                                                                                                                                > of bettas in california. prime is fine, but the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > novaqua could cause problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > paul, this is not good news for me! i use prime and
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > nova aqua+ to dechlorify my tap water, depending
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > upon what i have at the time, for my freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > aquariums. i use my distilled r/o water for my
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > salwater tanks. should i also use the distilled
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > water for my freshwater tanks now, too?
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > betta distributors are stating that adding water
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > treatment chemicals such as novaqua, amquel, stress
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > zyme, etc are now leading to death in bettas. the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > are
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > developing ick and or bacteria quickly in tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > using
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > anything but tap or distilled water
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > --- fuzzybpebble <fuzzybpebble@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > My Female Betta that I had just bought a tank for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > died today. I am
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > not going to do anymore bettas after losing so
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > many
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > of them so
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > quickly. My guppies are all doing great. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > babies die quickly if I
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > do not have them with the adults. They seem to
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > lose
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > the will to
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > live. So all of my guppies are now in one tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > that being the 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > gallon tank. Everyone is doing great. Added a
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > new
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > stone decoration
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > to the tank today. I will stay with guppies.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > They
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > are easy to take
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > care of and love the Hornwort plants that are in
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > tank with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > Bethany
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Discover Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > more. Check it out!
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > http://discover.yahoo.com/
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Valeen Robertson Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                                                                                Valeen Robertson Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11782 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: REUPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                                wow, just plain tap water? i would be scared to use it =)

                                                                                                                                                                                                --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                > you are on a different story than i am. i am not
                                                                                                                                                                                                > talking about ammonia removers, but the stronger
                                                                                                                                                                                                > formulas that remove nitrate directly, such as amquel
                                                                                                                                                                                                > +. they are stating that products like stress zyme
                                                                                                                                                                                                > are coating the bettas gills and makeing life
                                                                                                                                                                                                > difficult for them leading to stress and infections in
                                                                                                                                                                                                > a few weeks. i was referring to a direct statement
                                                                                                                                                                                                > from wholesaler to me when ordering for teh store.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > funny part is that the fish that we did not add
                                                                                                                                                                                                > anything but straight amquel to lived and the ones who
                                                                                                                                                                                                > we used live bacteria with died. we have stopped
                                                                                                                                                                                                > treating the water for the bettas, and just top off
                                                                                                                                                                                                > the quart tanks they are kept in with tap water, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                > there are no problems.lol
                                                                                                                                                                                                > --- "Patrick, AAFG" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > You do know they are using that as an excuse for
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > having poor-quality
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > stock, don't you. :) It seems odd that these
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > products, which are used by
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > millions with no apparent problems on other fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > would only cause death in
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > bettas. It is probably related to the idea of doing
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > 100% water changes of
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > the unfiltered quart bowls every week using aged
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > water. The story says that
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > if you just use fresh tap water treated for chlorine
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > it will kill the fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > It isn't remotely based on any facts as far as I
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > know (from experience I
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > know that young bettas grow as well with 75%
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > tri-daily changes in quart
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > bowls as in 1 gallon tanks with weekly 50% changes),
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > but is still spread by
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > a lot of web sites.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > "Now this is not the end. It is not even the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > beginning of the end. But it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > betta distributors are stating that adding water
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > treatment chemicals such as novaqua, amquel, stress
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > zyme, etc are now leading to death in bettas. the
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > are developing ick and or bacteria quickly in tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                > > using anything but tap or distilled water
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
                                                                                                                                                                                                > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                                                                                Valeen Robertson Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11783 From: dawana325 Date: 5/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Bio-wheel Question
                                                                                                                                                                                                I recently purchased a used Eclipse System 3 (3 gal) off of eBay. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                guy said he had saltwater in it. I plan to use it for freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                fish, maybe shrimp. Should I replace the bio-wheel or does it
                                                                                                                                                                                                matter? Also, since it's plastic, should I use a very weak bleach and
                                                                                                                                                                                                water solution or vinegar and water solution?

                                                                                                                                                                                                Many thanks!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                Dawana
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11784 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Bio-wheel Question
                                                                                                                                                                                                i have an eclipse 3 for one of my bettas and the bio-wheel works great. i wouldn't replace it
                                                                                                                                                                                                unless you feel as if you need a different filter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                --- dawana325 <dawanalea@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                > I recently purchased a used Eclipse System 3 (3 gal) off of eBay. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                > guy said he had saltwater in it. I plan to use it for freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                > fish, maybe shrimp. Should I replace the bio-wheel or does it
                                                                                                                                                                                                > matter? Also, since it's plastic, should I use a very weak bleach and
                                                                                                                                                                                                > water solution or vinegar and water solution?
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Many thanks!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                > Dawana
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                                                                                Valeen Robertson Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11785 From: Alex Date: 5/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: diy sump with LR and plant filters
                                                                                                                                                                                                Paul,

                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks, i think I have decided to go with just an oversized sump with
                                                                                                                                                                                                live rock instead of bio-balls, with some plant media in the center
                                                                                                                                                                                                chamber. I think I am going to stay away from the MUD part of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                filter. Any advice fom anyone would be helpful.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Al

                                                                                                                                                                                                PS.. setting up from scratch as a reef tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11786 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: HELP - GREEN WATER
                                                                                                                                                                                                Well, I had an algae problem in my betta tanks, so I switched from betta bits to regular flakes.  The orginal brownish green algae left, but the10 gal. betta tank (now a regular community tank) now has green algae and the ottos aren't helping! :(  That tank has 20 watts of light and only java ferns for plants, so I need more plants to eat up the nutrients.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                                -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                there is phosphorus added to most fresh water fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                food to produce color....if you over feed, you add a
                                                                                                                                                                                                lot of phosphate.  this wil sound funny, but when
                                                                                                                                                                                                clients have green water, i usually iincrease the
                                                                                                                                                                                                light time.  this causes free floating algae to
                                                                                                                                                                                                quickly latch on to surfaces where it can be cleaned
                                                                                                                                                                                                up by algae eaters....a matter of a few days
                                                                                                                                                                                                Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 11787 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Lighting for plants: Fluro's verses Halogen
                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Heres the front and back of the bag.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: "Rei - Raymond Tremor" <rei_tremor@yahoo.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                  To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 6:35 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting for plants: Fluro's verses Halogen


                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Nick, What kind of iron fertilizer is it? What is the name and who makes
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Thanks for the help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > LoveMoAko@Hawaii.RR.Com
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > From: Nicolas Munro
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Date: 05/22/05 17:38:04
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting for plants: Fluro's verses Halogen
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > My tank pics of the plants!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > ONE.jpg is before i started. (1st May)
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > TWO.jpg is after i added the Flourish and Iron fertaliser and left it in
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > for
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > a week (20th May)
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > THREE.jpg is when i added additional lighting and left them all on for one
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > day (23rd May) still to take
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > The original lighting consists of two 4ft fluros, one 10k and one standard
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > house fluro. The additonal lighting consits of four 3ft fluros each of 10k
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > and plant light frequencys. Two of these are Aqua brand the other two are
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Nec Brand... Unfortunatly one of my ballests was a 22w ballest and hence
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > only three of these four actually light up.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > 2x36w + 4x30w = 192 watts well short of 360w and i'm running out of room
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > above my tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > The tank is 4ft x 2.5ft x 18in
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > PS: If you want the pics and didn't get them (ie daily listing) reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > back.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > From: Nicolas Munro
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 8:52 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting for plants: Fluro's verses Halogen
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Looking at the wattage per buck the halogen seams to be better... are the
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > halogens better for plants or equivalent? do they cause alge or scum?
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > A fluro costs me about $24 ish for a 10000k 36w and a whole unit costs $30
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > A Halogen costs about $3 ish for a 100w standard halogen house lighting
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > and
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > a whole unit costs $20
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > (Queensland Australa priceing at my local Bunnings store)
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > in
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                                                                                                                                                                                                  > .
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                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > in
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Advance for your help in this matter
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                                                                                                                                                                                                  > .
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                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 11788 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: tank placement
                                                                                                                                                                                                  The water was aged for the length of time it took to travel through the
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Python tubing. Amquel was added to the tank prior to adding the water. Water
                                                                                                                                                                                                  temperature was fairly close to what was in the tanks by judicial mixing of
                                                                                                                                                                                                  hot and cold water at the tap.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Behalf Of r_ohle@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 5:21 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                  To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] tank placement

                                                                                                                                                                                                  At 09:02 PM 5/21/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >Back when I had a basement, and I had all my tanks in the basement, I used
                                                                                                                                                                                                  a
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >plastic garbage pail to collect the water, and s pump to pump it
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >out--outside to the close in gardens during warm weather, and inside to a
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >drain, but higher than the garbage pail. Since you may not have a garden,
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >you could use a python, if the drain in lower than your tank so you can
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >maintain a siphon, or use a variation on the pail and pump I used to use. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >was using a python, so I could also deliver water to the tanks without
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >having to haul it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >\\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >______


                                                                                                                                                                                                  Steve how did you treat the water using a python?
                                                                                                                                                                                                  My back wants to know
                                                                                                                                                                                                  regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                  red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 11789 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Lighting for plants my experience.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sorry, here is the three pictures and a little more information...
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    There are some plastic plants in the backgroup which i like cause some of them glow in the dark (WaHOO!) also they are a good reference for the camera's color system which appears different in different lighting conditions.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have circled in red the plants which i'm mostly concerned about namly the Elodia.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    ONE:    Notice the almost Yellow plants, no Seachem Flourish or extra lighting just using the Iron clay under the soil... this picture was taken about three weeks after i uprooted the plants and added the Iron clay. Prior to that they were much the same color.  
                                                                                                                                                                                                    ONE CONCLUSION: Iron Clay dosn't make too biger difference to plant size or color
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    TWO:   I have added some Crypts which are doing very nicely.   But still a light color on the Elodia (to the right).
                                                                                                                                                                                                    TWO CONCLUSION: The Seachem Flourish dosn't make too bigger diffence to plant size or color but has helped the Crypts to hold some of there leaves.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    THREE:   Moved some of the Crypts and took the faraway one out of its basket holder. Seems the Iron fert makes a difference to the growing speed of the plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       Left the 192w of light on for one day and it seams to have made the plants a LOT darker.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    THREE CONCLUSION:  The additional lighting made a huge difference to the color of the plants as one day left in the extra light has made them darken up lots more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Original (2x36w) + New (4x30w)  = New Total 192 watts      well short of 360w  and i'm running out of room above my tank the tank is 4ft x 2.5ft x 18in
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 1:35 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting for plants: Fluro's verses Halogen

                                                                                                                                                                                                    My tank pics of the plants!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    ONE.jpg   is before i started.  (1st May)
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    TWO.jpg is after i added the Flourish and Iron fertaliser and left it in for a week  (20th May)
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    THREE.jpg is when i added additional lighting and left them all on for one day (23rd May) still to take
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    The original lighting consists of two 4ft fluros, one 10k and one standard house fluro. The additonal lighting consits of four 3ft fluros each of 10k and plant light frequencys. Two of these are Aqua brand the other two are Nec Brand... Unfortunatly one of my ballests was a 22w ballest and hence only three of these four actually light up.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    2x36w + 4x30w =  192 watts      well short of 360w  and i'm running out of room above my tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    The tank is 4ft x 2.5ft x 18in
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                                    PS: If you want the pics and didn't get them (ie daily listing) reply back.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 8:52 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting for plants: Fluro's verses Halogen

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Looking at the wattage per buck the halogen seams to be better... are the halogens better for plants or equivalent?   do they cause alge or scum?
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    A fluro costs me about $24 ish for a 10000k 36w and a whole unit costs $30
                                                                                                                                                                                                    A Halogen costs about $3 ish for a 100w standard halogen house lighting and a whole unit costs $20
                                                                                                                                                                                                    (Queensland Australa priceing at my local Bunnings store)
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    =Nick


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11790 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: stupid Question
                                                                                                                                                                                                    While there may be truly stupid questions out there, no question is stupid
                                                                                                                                                                                                    when searching for knowledge.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    The sulphide smell you detect is from organic matter rotting in an anaerobic
                                                                                                                                                                                                    medium. Overfeeding is but one cause of this condition. Any organic matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                    can contribute to the creation of the sulphide odor. Such a condition in
                                                                                                                                                                                                    your substrate bed can lead to problems or death of your fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Can you cure this? Sure thing! However it will take time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    First, the gravel should be cleaned religiously. Stir up 25-33% of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    gravel bed each water change (water change should be done weekly), and be
                                                                                                                                                                                                    sure to siphon the resulting waste out of the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Reduce your feeding. Feed no more than the fish will eat in a few minutes.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Skip a feeding every now and then, the fish will survive.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you have live plants in the tank, remove dead and dying parts from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    plant as soon as possible.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ensure your filter is sized properly for the size tank you have.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                    ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Behalf Of Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:55 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] stupid Question


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi All


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hope Everyone had a great Weekend,

                                                                                                                                                                                                    This may seem really Stupid question but, when cleaning the gravel the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    water I take out with the gravel cleaner is really really smelly (like
                                                                                                                                                                                                    rotten eggs) is this right? am I over feeding? or is it normal I clean the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    gravel once a week,

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks All

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Irish Rob



                                                                                                                                                                                                    Regards
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey | Networks Engineer Citywest Business Park | BT | Tel: +353
                                                                                                                                                                                                    (0)1 43258749
                                                                                                                                                                                                    | Mob: +353 (0)86 8061840 | E: robert.hickey@... | www.btireland.ie
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11791 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Sodium / HPS lamps? will they work with fish tanks?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.hydroponicsolutions.com.au/shop_online_catlg_3.asp?CategoryID=62&ParentID=58
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Any one tried any thing like this in a fish tank?  High Pressure Sodium lamps   or HPS
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11792 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Sodium / HPS lamps? will they work with fish tanks?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    One website is covering the topic but i'm not sure if any one has first hand experience or comments??
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    LIGHT

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Indoors, 2000 lumens per sq. ft. is about as low as you want to go indoors. If you get under this mark, plant growth will certainly not go as fast as possible, and internode/stem length will increase. Also, light distance to plants will be much more critical. Daily adjustments to the lamps will be necessary, meaning you get no vacations. 2500 lumens psf should be a good target, and 3000 is optimal if your going to inject or enrich CO2 levels (more on that later). High Intensity Discharge lamps are the best solution for most indoor growers. HID lamps come in 3 basic flavors: High Pressure Sodium (HPS), Metal Halide (MH) and Mercury Vapor. Metal Halide is an improved spectrum, higher intensity Mercury Vapor design. HPS is a yellowish sort of light, maybe a bit pink or orange. Same as some street lamps. HPS lamps can be used to grow a crop from start to finish. Tests show that the HPS crop will mature 1 week later than a similar crop under MH, but it will be a bigger yield, so it's better to wait the extra week. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                    The easiest HID to buy, and least expensive initially are the flourescent and mercury vapor lamps. MV will put out about 8000 lumens per 175 watts, and 150 watts of HPS puts out about 15k lumens, so HPS is almost twice as efficient. But the color spectrum from MV lamp output is not as good. HPS is high in reds, which works well for flowering, while the Metal Halide is rich in blues, needed for the best vegetative growth. Unfortunately, MV lamps provide the worst spectrum for plant growth, but are very inexpensive to purchase.They are not recommended, unless you find them free, and even then, the electricity/efficiency issues outweigh the initial costs saved. 400 watt HPS will output around 45k lumens. For every 500 what a lamp taking half the power to output the same lumens (or twice the lumens at the same power level) will pay for itself in a year or so, and from then on, continuous savings will be reaped. This is a simple initial cost vs. operating costs calculation, and does not take into account the faster growth and increased yield the HPS lamp will give you, due to more light being available. If this is factored into the calculation the HPS lamp will pay for itself with the first crop, when compared to MV or fluorescent lamps, since it is easily twice as efficient and grows flowers faster and bigger.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Lamp Type Watts Lumens per bulb Total efficiency

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Fluorescent Bulb 40 3000 400 watts = 30k lumens

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Mercury Vapor 175 8000 400 watts = 20k lumens

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Metal Halide 400 36000 400 watts = 36k lumens

                                                                                                                                                                                                    High P. Sodium 400 45000 400 watts = 45k lumens

                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.onlinepot.org/grow/growguidebig.htm

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 1:09 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] Sodium / HPS lamps? will they work with fish tanks?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.hydroponicsolutions.com.au/shop_online_catlg_3.asp?CategoryID=62&ParentID=58
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Any one tried any thing like this in a fish tank?  High Pressure Sodium lamps   or HPS


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11793 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/24/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Live food on-line?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Try this place.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Great place they also have flake foods and shipping supplies.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >I'm looking for good places to order live food on-line. If seen a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >but would like recomendations from the group.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >Eric
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11794 From: Robert Hickey Date: 5/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: stupid Question
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi  steve
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Many Thanks for your repley
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I feed only as much as the fish can eat in a couple of minutes twice a day. I do a Water change twice a week a normal house hold bucket. my tank is heavyly planted and I think thats Were its coming form will as advised crop plants as needed as looking at the tank last night the plant matter that is decaying on the plants usually floats to the top and In remove straight away but Some or the vallis And amazon swords are either decaying or starting to brown on the leaves,
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I havnt lost any fish, they all Seem fine its just when I clean the gravel once a week I remove a medium sized piece of driftwood and then give the gravel a good clean and then its When I notice the smell its like rotten eggs
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Any way I can "train" the fish To eat from and area or device?
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks again
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Regards
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey | Networks Engineer Citywest Business Park | BT | Tel: +353 (0)1 43258749
                                                                                                                                                                                                    | Mob: +353 (0)86 8061840 | E: robert.hickey@... | www.btireland.ie
                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 4:01 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] stupid Question

                                                                                                                                                                                                    While there may be truly stupid questions out there, no question is stupid
                                                                                                                                                                                                    when searching for knowledge.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    The sulphide smell you detect is from organic matter rotting in an anaerobic
                                                                                                                                                                                                    medium. Overfeeding is but one cause of this condition. Any organic matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                    can contribute to the creation of the sulphide odor. Such a condition in
                                                                                                                                                                                                    your substrate bed can lead to problems or death of your fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Can you cure this? Sure thing! However it will take time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    First, the gravel should be cleaned religiously. Stir up 25-33% of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    gravel bed each water change (water change should be done weekly), and be
                                                                                                                                                                                                    sure to siphon the resulting waste out of the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Reduce your feeding. Feed no more than the fish will eat in a few minutes.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Skip a feeding every now and then, the fish will survive.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you have live plants in the tank, remove dead and dying parts from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    plant as soon as possible.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ensure your filter is sized properly for the size tank you have.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                    ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Behalf Of Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:55 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] stupid Question


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi All


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hope Everyone had a great Weekend,

                                                                                                                                                                                                    This may seem  really Stupid question but, when cleaning the gravel the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    water I take out with the gravel cleaner is really really smelly (like
                                                                                                                                                                                                    rotten eggs) is this right? am I over feeding? or is it normal I clean the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    gravel once a week,

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks All

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Irish Rob



                                                                                                                                                                                                    Regards
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey | Networks Engineer Citywest Business Park | BT | Tel: +353
                                                                                                                                                                                                    (0)1 43258749
                                                                                                                                                                                                    | Mob: +353 (0)86 8061840 | E: robert.hickey@... | www.btireland.ie



                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11795 From: pam phetteplace Date: 5/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: stupid question

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Again...there are no stupid questions. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                    You asked about training fish to eat so there is less mess.......right?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have 5 angels and a pleco in a 55 g.   Those angels are the piggiest  eaters I have yet to encounter.  (but I have been into fish less than a year).  Anyway I came up with some aids in them leaving less of a mess.   First I feed them in an area of the tank that has a huge mass of java moss where the uneaten food falls......and after they have devoured the floating food they pretty much 100% clean up what falls on the moss.  Secondly they have this feeder thing....(about 4  x  4 inch)  a floating plastic square that keeps the food still and it doesnt spread through the tank as easily.  Also turning off your filter can help.  

                                                                                                                                                                                                    whatever works     enjoy

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Pam

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11796 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Sodium / HPS lamps? will they work with fish tanks?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nicolas,

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    HPS are great for terrestrial plants. 2 reasons:

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1: There are no algae to compete for the light against them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    2: They rely more on intensity rather then spectrum. Spectrum merely controls their flowering and fruiting capabilities.

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    For an aquatic environment, HPS are not good at spectrum management at all. They have a very large chunk of Yellow and almost none of other colours. Some Grolux HPS bulbs have a bit of red and blue in them too but the yellow/orange will overshadow every colour for a display purpose. Needless to say that the green plants will lok brown or very dull under this and will not help showing off fish colours too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    HPS is widely used for hydroponics as that is the cheapest and more energy efficient bulb that gives out a maximum lux per watt consumed. Second only to Low pressure sodium bulbs. They are by far 10 times more economical then halides or fluorescents.

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Nicolas Munro
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: 25 May 2005 04:10
                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] Sodium / HPS lamps? will they work with fish tanks?

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.hydroponicsolutions.com.au/shop_online_catlg_3.asp?CategoryID=62&ParentID=58

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Any one tried any thing like this in a fish tank?  High Pressure Sodium lamps   or HPS



                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11797 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Sodium / HPS lamps? will they work with fish tanks?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks Nim...  I recon this is where the group come in handy!
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 3:12 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sodium / HPS lamps? will they work with fish tanks?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nicolas,

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    HPS are great for terrestrial plants. 2 reasons:

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1: There are no algae to compete for the light against them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    2: They rely more on intensity rather then spectrum. Spectrum merely controls their flowering and fruiting capabilities.

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    For an aquatic environment, HPS are not good at spectrum management at all. They have a very large chunk of Yellow and almost none of other colours. Some Grolux HPS bulbs have a bit of red and blue in them too but the yellow/orange will overshadow every colour for a display purpose. Needless to say that the green plants will lok brown or very dull under this and will not help showing off fish colours too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    HPS is widely used for hydroponics as that is the cheapest and more energy efficient bulb that gives out a maximum lux per watt consumed. Second only to Low pressure sodium bulbs. They are by far 10 times more economical then halides or fluorescents.

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Nicolas Munro
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: 25 May 2005 04:10
                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] Sodium / HPS lamps? will they work with fish tanks?

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.hydroponicsolutions.com.au/shop_online_catlg_3.asp?CategoryID=62&ParentID=58

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Any one tried any thing like this in a fish tank?  High Pressure Sodium lamps   or HPS



                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter





                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11798 From: avonjill923 Date: 5/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: small room with an air conditioner!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi everyone:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    This is my first post. I would like to thank everyone for the time
                                                                                                                                                                                                    reading my post and any help would be much appreciated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    My question is... My son has a 10 gallon fish tank, and he is in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                    small bedroom. We purchased the tank 6 months ago. He has an air
                                                                                                                                                                                                    conditioner in his room which he has been using. My question is ...
                                                                                                                                                                                                    will the tank temperature be affected by the air conditoner, if it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                    cold in the room, will the water in the tank also turn colder than the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    fish are used to... We have lost a few fish recently which is
                                                                                                                                                                                                    uncommon. We have mollies, baby mollies, guppies and new baby
                                                                                                                                                                                                    guppies. I removed a few fish due to overcrowding.. one being a very
                                                                                                                                                                                                    huge algae eater. It seems to have all gone wrong since then, also I
                                                                                                                                                                                                    stired up the gravel and made a real mess of the tank.. took the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                    out for awhile, the cloudy mess settled down, but like I said ever
                                                                                                                                                                                                    since the removal of fish, algae eater, stirring up the tank and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    air conditioner, we have lost about 7 fish in a week and a half..
                                                                                                                                                                                                    wow.. sorry this post is so darn long, anyway any help would be
                                                                                                                                                                                                    great.. Thanks Jill
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11800 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: small room with an air conditioner!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        You MUST have a heater to keep the tank between 77° and 82°F, and that requires that you have at least one thermometer for the tank.  For now, you should be doing water changes and watching the ammonia and nitrite levels.  I bet when you stirred the gravel up, it released all kinds of toxins.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                                    -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi everyone:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    This is my first post. I would like to thank everyone for the time reading my post and any help would be much appreciated.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    My question is... My son has a 10 gallon fish tank, and he is in a small bedroom.  We purchased the tank 6 months ago.  He has an air conditioner in his room which he has been using.  My question is ... will the tank temperature be affected by the air conditoner, if it is cold in the room, will the water in the tank also turn colder than the fish are used to... We have lost a few fish recently which is uncommon.  We have mollies, baby mollies, guppies and new baby guppies.  I removed a few fish due to overcrowding.. one being a very huge algae eater.  It seems to have all gone wrong since then, also I stired up the gravel and made a real mess of the tank.. took the fish out for awhile, the cloudy mess settled down, but like I said ever since the removal of fish, algae eater, stirring up the tank and the air conditioner, we have lost about 7 fish in a week and a half.. wow.. sorry this post is so darn long, anyway any help would be great.. Thanks Jill
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11801 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: stupid Question
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Robert,

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't know if they are still available, but, at one time, there were
                                                                                                                                                                                                    feeding rings that will do just what you are asking, confine the food to a
                                                                                                                                                                                                    certain area. Of course, once the food starts to sink, all bets are off as
                                                                                                                                                                                                    to where it will end up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Is the sulphide smell coming from under the driftwood or from the driftwood?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    This is an important question. If it is from the driftwood itself, then you
                                                                                                                                                                                                    have a problem with that driftwood, and I would toss it and look for another
                                                                                                                                                                                                    piece. If it is only from under it, try to support the driftwood so it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                    not compressing the gravel. If you get those pizza box stands when you order
                                                                                                                                                                                                    pizza--the ones that hold the lid of the box off the pizza, you can use
                                                                                                                                                                                                    those, and arrange the gravel so that it looks like the wood is laying on
                                                                                                                                                                                                    the gravel (i.e. hide the slate, if a piece is attached, and/or hide the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    stands on which you are placing the driftwood.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                    ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Behalf Of Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 6:49 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] stupid Question


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi steve

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Many Thanks for your repley

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I feed only as much as the fish can eat in a couple of minutes twice a day.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I do a Water change twice a week a normal house hold bucket. my tank is
                                                                                                                                                                                                    heavyly planted and I think thats Were its coming form will as advised crop
                                                                                                                                                                                                    plants as needed as looking at the tank last night the plant matter that is
                                                                                                                                                                                                    decaying on the plants usually floats to the top and In remove straight away
                                                                                                                                                                                                    but Some or the vallis And amazon swords are either decaying or starting to
                                                                                                                                                                                                    brown on the leaves,

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I havnt lost any fish, they all Seem fine its just when I clean the gravel
                                                                                                                                                                                                    once a week I remove a medium sized piece of driftwood and then give the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    gravel a good clean and then its When I notice the smell its like rotten
                                                                                                                                                                                                    eggs

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Any way I can "train" the fish To eat from and area or device?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks again

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Regards
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey | Networks Engineer Citywest Business Park | BT | Tel: +353
                                                                                                                                                                                                    (0)1 43258749
                                                                                                                                                                                                    | Mob: +353 (0)86 8061840 | E: robert.hickey@... | www.btireland.ie

                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Steve Szabo <mailto:steve@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 4:01 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] stupid Question

                                                                                                                                                                                                    While there may be truly stupid questions out there, no question is
                                                                                                                                                                                                    stupid
                                                                                                                                                                                                    when searching for knowledge.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    The sulphide smell you detect is from organic matter rotting in an
                                                                                                                                                                                                    anaerobic
                                                                                                                                                                                                    medium. Overfeeding is but one cause of this condition. Any organic
                                                                                                                                                                                                    matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                    can contribute to the creation of the sulphide odor. Such a
                                                                                                                                                                                                    condition in
                                                                                                                                                                                                    your substrate bed can lead to problems or death of your fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Can you cure this? Sure thing! However it will take time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    First, the gravel should be cleaned religiously. Stir up 25-33% of
                                                                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    gravel bed each water change (water change should be done weekly),
                                                                                                                                                                                                    and be
                                                                                                                                                                                                    sure to siphon the resulting waste out of the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Reduce your feeding. Feed no more than the fish will eat in a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                    minutes.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Skip a feeding every now and then, the fish will survive.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you have live plants in the tank, remove dead and dying parts
                                                                                                                                                                                                    from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    plant as soon as possible.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ensure your filter is sized properly for the size tank you have.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                    ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Behalf Of Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:55 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] stupid Question


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi All


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hope Everyone had a great Weekend,

                                                                                                                                                                                                    This may seem really Stupid question but, when cleaning the gravel
                                                                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    water I take out with the gravel cleaner is really really smelly
                                                                                                                                                                                                    (like
                                                                                                                                                                                                    rotten eggs) is this right? am I over feeding? or is it normal I
                                                                                                                                                                                                    clean the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    gravel once a week,

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks All

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Irish Rob



                                                                                                                                                                                                    Regards
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey | Networks Engineer Citywest Business Park | BT | Tel:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    +353
                                                                                                                                                                                                    (0)1 43258749
                                                                                                                                                                                                    | Mob: +353 (0)86 8061840 | E: robert.hickey@... |
                                                                                                                                                                                                    www.btireland.ie
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11802 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I hate to have to ask this, but would it be possible to set the group settings to not allow attachments?  I don't think it would really cause any problems with most members, but it could save a lot of them.  There are two reasons to do it:
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. Some people, unknowingly or on purpose, attach files to their e-mails.  That is ok, but sometimes their files add up to slow down their viewing for people with individual e-mail.  Such files should be uploaded to the group files section, in my opinion, and there is a box to check to have a message sent to the group announcing that a file has been uploaded with a file description.  I know people who don't have the Internet and only use e-mail would have a problem with that, but I think it would be worth it...
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. This is really the main thing that is why I make this request.  There are many viruses going around that Yahoo groups either can't or won't stop.  They are spread mostly among groups where attachments are allowed, and there is no moderation status that can prevent them.  These things can use a person's personal email account as their own, and that lets the virus-containing messages into the group members' mail boxes.  All it takes is one person to open that virus not knowing better, and we are all doomed!  Because it can use any person's email address, a SPAM message that appears to be from my account could arrive at the group with no obstacles, because as far as anybody knows, it was from me.  In reality, it was a virus pretending to be me.  From what I understand, the new version of NAV will remove this virus, and as long as nobody opens that attachment they are safe, but all it could take is one person opening it.  One group I'm on was nearly shut down from all the German SPAM coming from somebody with such a virus.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Just a warning and suggestion.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11803 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Snail hatching updates!
                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > what are you feeding those suckers.. Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > They are getting so big almost pea size now. They are so cute. But
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > poop like crazy I suck out poop like 3 times a day!!! And should even
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > more. But it's tiring!!! HEhehe Also I got some lovely blue snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > maybe nickel size they are so cute.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11804 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Snail hatching updates!
                                                                                                                                                                                                    They love peas, snail biscuits and just plain old fish food. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                    nickel size ones I bought sorry if I confused you! They didn't grow
                                                                                                                                                                                                    that fast. Hehehe


                                                                                                                                                                                                    > what are you feeding those suckers.. Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > They are getting so big almost pea size now. They are so cute. But
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > poop like crazy I suck out poop like 3 times a day!!! And should even
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > more. But it's tiring!!! HEhehe Also I got some lovely blue snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > maybe nickel size they are so cute.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11805 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: A request to the group management

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sorry, I would be one of those culprits...   but if you like you can sign up for the daily digest, it doesn’t include pictures.

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Some email programs also allow you to choose wether you download attachments or not.

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    =Nick

                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 12:53 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] A request to the group management

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I hate to have to ask this, but would it be possible to set the group settings to not allow attachments?  I don't think it would really cause any problems with most members, but it could save a lot of them.  There are two reasons to do it:
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. Some people, unknowingly or on purpose, attach files to their e-mails.  That is ok, but sometimes their files add up to slow down their viewing for people with individual e-mail.  Such files should be uploaded to the group files section, in my opinion, and there is a box to check to have a message sent to the group announcing that a file has been uploaded with a file description.  I know people who don't have the Internet and only use e-mail would have a problem with that, but I think it would be worth it...
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. This is really the main thing that is why I make this request.  There are many viruses going around that Yahoo groups either can't or won't stop.  They are spread mostly among groups where attachments are allowed, and there is no moderation status that can prevent them.  These things can use a person's personal email account as their own, and that lets the virus-containing messages into the group members' mail boxes.  All it takes is one person to open that virus not knowing better, and we are all doomed!  Because it can use any person's email address, a SPAM message that appears to be from my account could arrive at the group with no obstacles, because as far as anybody knows, it was from me.  In reality, it was a virus pretending to be me.  From what I understand, the new version of NAV will remove this virus, and as long as nobody opens that attachment they are safe, but all it could take is one person opening it.  One group I'm on was nearly shut down from all the German SPAM coming from somebody with such a virus.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Just a warning and suggestion.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11806 From: paul helms Date: 5/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                    there are better antvirus programs out there, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                    anyone who leaves themselves vulnerable really does
                                                                                                                                                                                                    nto have much to complain about....imho. lol
                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- "Patrick, AAFG" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I hate to have to ask this, but would it be possible
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > to set the group
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > settings to not allow attachments? I don't think it
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > would really cause any
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > problems with most members, but it could save a lot
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of them. There are two
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > reasons to do it:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > 1. Some people, unknowingly or on purpose, attach
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > files to their e-mails.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > That is ok, but sometimes their files add up to slow
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > down their viewing for
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > people with individual e-mail. Such files should be
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > uploaded to the group
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > files section, in my opinion, and there is a box to
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > check to have a message
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > sent to the group announcing that a file has been
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > uploaded with a file
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > description. I know people who don't have the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Internet and only use e-mail
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > would have a problem with that, but I think it would
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > be worth it...
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > 2. This is really the main thing that is why I make
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > this request. There are
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > many viruses going around that Yahoo groups either
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > can't or won't stop.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > They are spread mostly among groups where
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > attachments are allowed, and there
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > is no moderation status that can prevent them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > These things can use a
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > person's personal email account as their own, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > that lets the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > virus-containing messages into the group members'
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > mail boxes. All it takes
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > is one person to open that virus not knowing better,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and we are all doomed!
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Because it can use any person's email address, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > SPAM message that appears
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > to be from my account could arrive at the group with
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > no obstacles, because
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > as far as anybody knows, it was from me. In
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > reality, it was a virus
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > pretending to be me. From what I understand, the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > new version of NAV will
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > remove this virus, and as long as nobody opens that
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > attachment they are safe
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > but all it could take is one person opening it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > One group I'm on was
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > nearly shut down from all the German SPAM coming
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > from somebody with such a
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > virus.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Just a warning and suggestion.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Patrick



                                                                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11807 From: paul helms Date: 5/25/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: diy sump with LR and plant filters
                                                                                                                                                                                                    mud?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- Alex <alex0366_1999@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Paul,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Thanks, i think I have decided to go with just an
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > oversized sump with
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > live rock instead of bio-balls, with some plant
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > media in the center
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > chamber. I think I am going to stay away from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > MUD part of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > filter. Any advice fom anyone would be helpful.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Al
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > PS.. setting up from scratch as a reef tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >



                                                                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11808 From: Robert Hickey Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: stupid Question
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hiya Steve
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Firstly and to all thanks for your help and advice.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I usually remove the main piece of driftwood and it dosnt smell , its the gravel sure, as doing a Water change there is no smell except the usuall earthy smell of a cycled tank . But when cleaning the gravel I get the smell,
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have cut down on the amount Im am feeding the problem with this is that I feed different types of fish , and my Rams only mainly feed from the middle to the bottom same With my corys and the rams Are messy Eaters.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    The pizza box idea sounds good but Im Ireland and don`t think We get the Same kinda pizza boxes over here, So :o)
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have Seen the feeding rings alright but they only work With flake So,
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Again thanks for your help
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Rob
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Regards
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey | Networks Engineer Citywest Business Park | BT | Tel: +353 (0)1 43258749
                                                                                                                                                                                                    | Mob: +353 (0)86 8061840 | E: robert.hickey@... | www.btireland.ie
                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 3:28 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] stupid Question

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Robert,

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't know if they are still available, but, at one time, there were
                                                                                                                                                                                                    feeding rings that will do just what you are asking, confine the food to a
                                                                                                                                                                                                    certain area. Of course, once the food starts to sink, all bets are off as
                                                                                                                                                                                                    to where it will end up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Is the sulphide smell coming from under the driftwood or from the driftwood?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    This is an important question. If it is from the driftwood itself, then you
                                                                                                                                                                                                    have a problem with that driftwood, and I would toss it and look for another
                                                                                                                                                                                                    piece. If it is only from under it, try to support the driftwood so it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                    not compressing the gravel. If you get those pizza box stands when you order
                                                                                                                                                                                                    pizza--the ones that hold the lid of the box off the pizza, you can use
                                                                                                                                                                                                    those, and arrange the gravel so that it looks like the wood is laying on
                                                                                                                                                                                                    the gravel (i.e. hide the slate, if a piece is attached, and/or hide the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    stands on which you are placing the driftwood.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                    ________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Behalf Of Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 6:49 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] stupid Question


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi  steve

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Many Thanks for your repley

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I feed only as much as the fish can eat in a couple of minutes twice a day.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I do a Water change twice a week a normal house hold bucket. my tank is
                                                                                                                                                                                                    heavyly planted and I think thats Were its coming form will as advised crop
                                                                                                                                                                                                    plants as needed as looking at the tank last night the plant matter that is
                                                                                                                                                                                                    decaying on the plants usually floats to the top and In remove straight away
                                                                                                                                                                                                    but Some or the vallis And amazon swords are either decaying or starting to
                                                                                                                                                                                                    brown on the leaves,

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I havnt lost any fish, they all Seem fine its just when I clean the gravel
                                                                                                                                                                                                    once a week I remove a medium sized piece of driftwood and then give the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    gravel a good clean and then its When I notice the smell its like rotten
                                                                                                                                                                                                    eggs

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Any way I can "train" the fish To eat from and area or device?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks again

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Regards
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Robert Hickey | Networks Engineer Citywest Business Park | BT | Tel: +353
                                                                                                                                                                                                    (0)1 43258749
                                                                                                                                                                                                    | Mob: +353 (0)86 8061840 | E: robert.hickey@... | www.btireland.ie

                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: Steve Szabo <mailto:steve@...> 
                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 4:01 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] stupid Question

                                                                                                                                                                                                          While there may be truly stupid questions out there, no question is
                                                                                                                                                                                                    stupid
                                                                                                                                                                                                          when searching for knowledge.
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                          The sulphide smell you detect is from organic matter rotting in an
                                                                                                                                                                                                    anaerobic
                                                                                                                                                                                                          medium. Overfeeding is but one cause of this condition. Any organic
                                                                                                                                                                                                    matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                          can contribute to the creation of the sulphide odor. Such a
                                                                                                                                                                                                    condition in
                                                                                                                                                                                                          your substrate bed can lead to problems or death of your fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Can you cure this? Sure thing! However it will take time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                          First, the gravel should be cleaned religiously. Stir up 25-33% of
                                                                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                                                                          gravel bed each water change (water change should be done weekly),
                                                                                                                                                                                                    and be
                                                                                                                                                                                                          sure to siphon the resulting waste out of the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Reduce your feeding. Feed no more than the fish will eat in a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                    minutes.
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Skip a feeding every now and then, the fish will survive.
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                          If you have live plants in the tank, remove dead and dying parts
                                                                                                                                                                                                    from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                          plant as soon as possible.
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Ensure your filter is sized properly for the size tank you have.
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                          \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                          ________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Behalf Of Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:55 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] stupid Question
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hi All
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hope Everyone had a great Weekend,
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                          This may seem  really Stupid question but, when cleaning the gravel
                                                                                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                                                                                          water I take out with the gravel cleaner is really really smelly
                                                                                                                                                                                                    (like
                                                                                                                                                                                                          rotten eggs) is this right? am I over feeding? or is it normal I
                                                                                                                                                                                                    clean the
                                                                                                                                                                                                          gravel once a week,
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks All
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Irish Rob
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Regards
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Robert Hickey
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Robert Hickey | Networks Engineer Citywest Business Park | BT | Tel:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    +353
                                                                                                                                                                                                          (0)1 43258749
                                                                                                                                                                                                          | Mob: +353 (0)86 8061840 | E: robert.hickey@... |
                                                                                                                                                                                                    www.btireland.ie



                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11809 From: dawana325 Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: HELP - Dwarf Gourami Problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                    HELP! (Cross-post)

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I know I don't have all the necessary info, but this is a start:

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have a 3 gal Eclipse on my desk at work. It houses 3 male
                                                                                                                                                                                                    guppies, 1 ramshorn snail, and 1 dwarf gourami.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I change the water every two weeks. It's heavily planted. The temp
                                                                                                                                                                                                    stays at about 82 degrees without a heater. Last water check
                                                                                                                                                                                                    yielded 7.4 pH, 0 ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Unforunately,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    that was over a month ago. The tank has been up since December. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                    cycled without fish and no fish went in the tank until early March.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    The guppies are fine, swimming around happily. The dwarf gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                    has been sitting on the gravel for the past couple of days. He goes
                                                                                                                                                                                                    to the top for air and to eat. What's wrong?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have been feeding a variety of flakes and recently (last week)
                                                                                                                                                                                                    gave them some live black worms. I am heavy handed when I feed, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                    they don't on the weekends. Could it be an intestinal blockage?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    What should I do? HELP Please!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I can provide water parameters tomorrow when I bring in my test kit.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Dawana
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11810 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I agree, but this particular virus can cause me problems when I don't even have it.  I have heard about it on several different groups.  If it was to get on your computer and find a message stored on it from me, it could start sending messages in both of our names.  People like us that protect ourselves and don't open random attachments could have their accounts used because of those won don't and do.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                                    -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                    there are better antvirus programs out there, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                    anyone who leaves themselves vulnerable really does
                                                                                                                                                                                                    nto have much to complain about....imho.  lol
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11811 From: Emily Tenczar Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: small room with an air conditioner!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                    get a thermometer in the tank and then if its too cold, get a tank heater. Guppies and mollies like it in the 70's.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    You could have stirred up some ammonia, nitrites or nitrates when you stirred up the gravel. Otherwise, if you removed the fish and housed them temporarily in a new tank without acclimating them properly, that would certainly kill them. Do you have an under gravel filter in the tank? How are they doing now?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                                    avonjill923 <avonjill923@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi everyone:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    This is my first post. I would like to thank everyone for the time
                                                                                                                                                                                                    reading my post and any help would be much appreciated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    My question is... My son has a 10 gallon fish tank, and he is in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                    small bedroom. We purchased the tank 6 months ago. He has an air
                                                                                                                                                                                                    conditioner in his room which he has been using. My question is ...
                                                                                                                                                                                                    will the tank temperature be affected by the air conditoner, if it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                    cold in the room, will the water in the tank also turn colder than the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    fish are used to... We have lost a few fish recently which is
                                                                                                                                                                                                    uncommon. We have mollies, baby mollies, guppies and new baby
                                                                                                                                                                                                    guppies. I removed a few fish due to overcrowding.. one being a very
                                                                                                                                                                                                    huge algae eater. It seems to have all gone wrong since then, also I
                                                                                                                                                                                                    stired up the gravel and made a real mess of the tank.. took the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                    out for awhile, the cloudy mess settled down, but like I said ever
                                                                                                                                                                                                    since the removal of fish, algae eater, stirring up the tank and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    air conditioner, we have lost about 7 fish in a week and a half..
                                                                                                                                                                                                    wow.. sorry this post is so darn long, anyway any help would be
                                                                                                                                                                                                    great.. Thanks Jill






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                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11812 From: Jill Marie Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: small room with an air conditioner!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I do keep the thermometer at 76 to 82.. but I was wondering if the room is freezing with the air conditioner, will it have an effect on the thermometer's effectiveness... also no do not have an undergravel filter, the filter that we use is working well now that I removed the algae eater, he was making a big mess in the tank... knock wood the baby mollies, and baby guppies seem to be doing ok.. I have one adult molly left.. I did have 4, and I have one adult guppy left, the mom died.. that broke my heart, but I am thankful to have her babies... as you can see I love this tank more than my son.. *laughs* thanks so much for all your help... Jill

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Emily Tenczar <bababanana@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    get a thermometer in the tank and then if its too cold, get a tank heater. Guppies and mollies like it in the 70's.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    You could have stirred up some ammonia, nitrites or nitrates when you stirred up the gravel. Otherwise, if you removed the fish and housed them temporarily in a new tank without acclimating them properly, that would certainly kill them. Do you have an under gravel filter in the tank? How are they doing now?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                                    avonjill923 <avonjill923@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi everyone:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    This is my first post. I would like to thank everyone for the time
                                                                                                                                                                                                    reading my post and any help would be much appreciated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    My question is... My son has a 10 gallon fish tank, and he is in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                    small bedroom. We purchased the tank 6 months ago. He has an air
                                                                                                                                                                                                    conditioner in his room which he has been using. My question is ...
                                                                                                                                                                                                    will the tank temperature be affected by the air conditoner, if it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                    cold in the room, will the water in the tank also turn colder than the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    fish are used to... We have lost a few fish recently which is
                                                                                                                                                                                                    uncommon. We have mollies, baby mollies, guppies and new baby
                                                                                                                                                                                                    guppies. I removed a few fish due to overcrowding.. one being a very
                                                                                                                                                                                                    huge algae eater. It seems to have all gone wrong since then, also I
                                                                                                                                                                                                    stired up the gravel and made a real mess of the tank.. took the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                    out for awhile, the cloudy mess settled down, but like I said ever
                                                                                                                                                                                                    since the removal of fish, algae eater, stirring up the tank and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    air conditioner, we have lost about 7 fish in a week and a half..
                                                                                                                                                                                                    wow.. sorry this post is so darn long, anyway any help would be
                                                                                                                                                                                                    great.. Thanks Jill






                                                                                                                                                                                                    ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts!
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                                                                                                                                                                                                    --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yahoo! Groups Links

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                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/

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                                                                                                                                                                                                    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
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                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11813 From: kb1dva Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: kind of dumb question

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I bought a porcelain turtle that I want to use as a tank decoration. It doesn’t have an opening or any unglazed spots will it be ok. I had the PH tested at a local pet smart the employee wasn’t the sharpest but it looked like everything was ok, except nitrates where mid range on the strip. Should I do anything? I am being given to large silver skats this weekend; the woman says they will be ok? –what can I do ,if anything to prepare for this I am going with a large plastic bucket and towel for the top-see I pay attention. Thank you ahead of time    Emily in Boston

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ps I have I timid 11 inch pacu

                                                                                                                                                                                                    3 blood parrots

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1 pike cichlid in a 90 gallon tank  

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11814 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: kind of dumb question

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Emily,

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Porcelain decorations are fine in aquarium.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Are you getting a Skate? Or a Scat? Or a Silver Shark? I cannot comment on the first one but the second one is a brackish water fish and may not like the freshwater conditions given to the other fish. Silver shark however should be fine.

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    What were your Nitrate readings in Number?

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of kb1dva
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: 26 May 2005 19:16
                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] kind of dumb question

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I bought a porcelain turtle that I want to use as a tank decoration. It doesn’t have an opening or any unglazed spots will it be ok. I had the PH tested at a local pet smart the employee wasn’t the sharpest but it looked like everything was ok, except nitrates where mid range on the strip. Should I do anything? I am being given to large silver skats this weekend; the woman says they will be ok? –what can I do ,if anything to prepare for this I am going with a large plastic bucket and towel for the top-see I pay attention. Thank you ahead of time    Emily in Boston

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ps I have I timid 11 inch pacu

                                                                                                                                                                                                    3 blood parrots

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1 pike cichlid in a 90 gallon tank  



                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11815 From: kb1dva Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: kind of dumb question

                                                                                                                                                                                                    She called it a silver skat it is an almost round fish. Neat looking. Do I need to do anything to the porcelain turtle or just plop it in. she said my tank should have high alkalinity? And it does 7.7 he didn’t know the number it was a test strip that turns colors. I suppose a good water change wouldn’t hurt and vacuum the gravel. Thank you so much for the advice   Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nimish Mathur
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 2:25 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] kind of dumb question

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Emily,

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Porcelain decorations are fine in aquarium.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Are you getting a Skate? Or a Scat? Or a Silver Shark? I cannot comment on the first one but the second one is a brackish water fish and may not like the freshwater conditions given to the other fish. Silver shark however should be fine.

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    What were your Nitrate readings in Number?

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of kb1dva
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: 26 May 2005 19:16
                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] kind of dumb question

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I bought a porcelain turtle that I want to use as a tank decoration. It doesn’t have an opening or any unglazed spots will it be ok. I had the PH tested at a local pet smart the employee wasn’t the sharpest but it looked like everything was ok, except nitrates where mid range on the strip. Should I do anything? I am being given to large silver skats this weekend; the woman says they will be ok? –what can I do ,if anything to prepare for this I am going with a large plastic bucket and towel for the top-see I pay attention. Thank you ahead of time    Emily in Boston

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ps I have I timid 11 inch pacu

                                                                                                                                                                                                    3 blood parrots

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1 pike cichlid in a 90 gallon tank  



                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11816 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: kind of dumb question

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Emily,

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www11.plala.or.jp/las/hugu/kisui/kisui_sukya.jpg was it something like this?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    If yes, there are Scats and are brackish water fish and will need some salt in the water to be able to thrive properly. Though they can temporarily do in freshwater but adding about 1 tsp of aquarium salt per gallon of tank water and maintaining this salinity when doing water changes. Other fish that you mention should not have problem with this salinity.

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Of course, other option is to not to get them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of kb1dva
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: 26 May 2005 19:33
                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] kind of dumb question

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    She called it a silver skat it is an almost round fish. Neat looking. Do I need to do anything to the porcelain turtle or just plop it in. she said my tank should have high alkalinity? And it does 7.7 he didn’t know the number it was a test strip that turns colors. I suppose a good water change wouldn’t hurt and vacuum the gravel. Thank you so much for the advice   Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                                                    •  
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11817 From: kb1dva Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: kind of dumb question

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yes but bigger!

                                                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Nimish Mathur
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 2:49 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] kind of dumb question

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Emily,

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www11.plala.or.jp/las/hugu/kisui/kisui_sukya.jpg was it something like this?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    If yes, there are Scats and are brackish water fish and will need some salt in the water to be able to thrive properly. Though they can temporarily do in freshwater but adding about 1 tsp of aquarium salt per gallon of tank water and maintaining this salinity when doing water changes. Other fish that you mention should not have problem with this salinity.

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Of course, other option is to not to get them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of kb1dva
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: 26 May 2005 19:33
                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] kind of dumb question

                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                    She called it a silver skat it is an almost round fish. Neat looking. Do I need to do anything to the porcelain turtle or just plop it in. she said my tank should have high alkalinity? And it does 7.7 he didn’t know the number it was a test strip that turns colors. I suppose a good water change wouldn’t hurt and vacuum the gravel. Thank you so much for the advice   Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                                                    •  



                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11818 From: kb1dva Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: goofed

                                                                                                                                                                                                    There is a bit of unglazed stuff on the bottom is that ok. It’s where it sits   Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11819 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: small room with an air conditioner!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                    As long as the temperature doesn't change more than 2 or 3 degrees, I wouldn't worry.  The heater should keep up with it. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                                    -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I do keep the thermometer at 76 to 82.. but I was wondering if the room is freezing with the air conditioner, will it have an effect on the thermometer's effectiveness... also no do not have an undergravel filter, the filter that we use is working well now that I removed the algae eater, he was making a big mess in the tank... knock wood the baby mollies, and baby guppies seem to be doing ok.. I have one adult molly left.. I did have 4, and I have one adult guppy left, the mom died.. that broke my heart, but I am thankful to have her babies... as you can see I love this tank more than my son.. *laughs* thanks so much for all your help... Jill
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11820 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: kind of dumb question
                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you're able to do it, brackish fish will do best with a marine salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                    mix (ie: Instant Ocean, Red Sea Salt, Coralife Marine Salt, etc.) at
                                                                                                                                                                                                    about 1/3 strength. Obviously you wouldn't want to put your pacu or
                                                                                                                                                                                                    other freshwater fish in this type of environment, though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nimish Mathur wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Emily,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www11.plala.or.jp/las/hugu/kisui/kisui_sukya.jpg was it
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > something like this?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > If yes, there are Scats and are brackish water fish and will need some
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > salt in the water to be able to thrive properly. Though they can
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > temporarily do in freshwater but adding about 1 tsp of aquarium salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > per gallon of tank water and maintaining this salinity when doing
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > water changes. Other fish that you mention should not have problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > with this salinity.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Of course, other option is to not to get them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > *From:* AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *kb1dva
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > *Sent:* 26 May 2005 19:33
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > *To:* AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > *Subject:* RE: [AquaticLife] kind of dumb question
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > She called it a silver skat it is an almost round fish. Neat looking.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Do I need to do anything to the porcelain turtle or just plop it in.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > she said my tank should have high alkalinity? And it does 7.7 he
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > didn’t know the number it was a test strip that turns colors. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > suppose a good water change wouldn’t hurt and vacuum the gravel. Thank
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > you so much for the advice Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11821 From: Rachel Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: goldfish aquarium,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    okay so my father cracked the bottom of my tall aquarium and i wanted
                                                                                                                                                                                                    to know if it was still usable if i put sealant on it. the crack is at
                                                                                                                                                                                                    the bottom and isnt terribly long. the tank is 24 in long 12 in wide n
                                                                                                                                                                                                    16 in high.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    okay and as for goldfish. my friend gamme a tank thats 12 inches high
                                                                                                                                                                                                    12 inches wide and 30 inches long. i wanted ot know if i have
                                                                                                                                                                                                    everything i need for it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    whisper power filter 20-40 gallons
                                                                                                                                                                                                    cartridge for it
                                                                                                                                                                                                    5lb gravel (i have more scattered around)
                                                                                                                                                                                                    2 underwater caves
                                                                                                                                                                                                    3 silk plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                    1 scenic rock
                                                                                                                                                                                                    20-60 gal air pump with 2 outlets
                                                                                                                                                                                                    tubing
                                                                                                                                                                                                    2 check valves
                                                                                                                                                                                                    bubble wand
                                                                                                                                                                                                    current ugf

                                                                                                                                                                                                    my dads going to get a piece of glass and cut it for the cover

                                                                                                                                                                                                    pretty sure thats it

                                                                                                                                                                                                    do i need anythign else?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11822 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: goldfish aquarium,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you can repair the crack so that it doesn't leak, you're probably fine, but that may be easier said than done. (That's actually how I got my 150 gal. tank - my parents gave me an 80 gal. that had a crack in the bottom, and I wasn't able to fix it, so my wife finally agreed to just let me replace it. I took advantage of the situation and upgraded. :D )

                                                                                                                                                                                                    As for the goldfish tank, I'd lose the UGF and just use the power filter. You can lose the air pump and bubble wand, too, unless you really want to see bubbles in your tank. (If you can't tell, I hate air pumps. They're just a noisy nuisance, in my opinion. :D )

                                                                                                                                                                                                    - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Rachel wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    okay so my father cracked the bottom of my tall aquarium and i wanted
                                                                                                                                                                                                    to know if it was still usable if i put sealant on it. the crack is at
                                                                                                                                                                                                    the bottom and isnt terribly long. the tank is 24 in long 12 in wide n
                                                                                                                                                                                                    16 in high.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    okay and as for goldfish. my friend gamme a tank thats 12 inches high
                                                                                                                                                                                                    12 inches wide and 30 inches long. i wanted ot know if i have
                                                                                                                                                                                                    everything i need for it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    whisper power filter 20-40 gallons
                                                                                                                                                                                                    cartridge for it
                                                                                                                                                                                                    5lb gravel (i have more scattered around)
                                                                                                                                                                                                    2 underwater caves
                                                                                                                                                                                                    3 silk plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                    1 scenic rock
                                                                                                                                                                                                    20-60 gal air pump with 2 outlets
                                                                                                                                                                                                    tubing
                                                                                                                                                                                                    2 check valves
                                                                                                                                                                                                    bubble wand
                                                                                                                                                                                                    current ugf

                                                                                                                                                                                                    my dads going to get a piece of glass and cut it for the cover

                                                                                                                                                                                                    pretty sure thats it

                                                                                                                                                                                                    do i need anythign else?




                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11823 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                    A lot of people post pictures on here of their sick fish etc...
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    These pictures are very helpful to identify the problems, this is one benefit of the attachments. How do you propose we facilitate this and disable attachments?
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    (I'm asking in a happy voice) :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 2:01 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A request to the group management

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I agree, but this particular virus can cause me problems when I don't even have it.  I have heard about it on several different groups.  If it was to get on your computer and find a message stored on it from me, it could start sending messages in both of our names.  People like us that protect ourselves and don't open random attachments could have their accounts used because of those won don't and do.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                                    -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                    there are better antvirus programs out there, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                    anyone who leaves themselves vulnerable really does
                                                                                                                                                                                                    nto have much to complain about....imho.  lol
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    .
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11824 From: mommy2acdhsurvivor Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Pregnant or something else?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have a few very very fat and pregnant guppies. I put the biggest
                                                                                                                                                                                                    one in a breeder net and today looking at her ever so fat body she
                                                                                                                                                                                                    looks pinconed out. You can see her scales popped out looking. Is this
                                                                                                                                                                                                    just because she's very pregnant or is she sick. She eats fine and
                                                                                                                                                                                                    acts fine I just happend to look down and saw her belly looking
                                                                                                                                                                                                    pinconed. I've never put the females in a breeder net so I've never
                                                                                                                                                                                                    looked that close at them while there pregnant so If anyone can tell
                                                                                                                                                                                                    me if she's sick or just ready to pop out babies. Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11825 From: Cher Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Need help fast confused
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ok an artical in your files states if the amonia is high in your tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                    to do a 10-15% water change daily at least once until the amonia and
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nitrite are at zero.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    My nitrite is at zero but my amonia is still at 4.0 even with the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                    change. Do I do another till it reaches zero or what?? I am not feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                    my fish this is there secound day without food. Please post this soon I
                                                                                                                                                                                                    am new to this. Thank you for any help you can give me....Cher
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11826 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: goldfish aquarium,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Get a piece of glass to fit over the bottom and put plenty of sealant all around the edges of the glass and around the crack, and maybe rings of sealant all the way around it to the edges of the glass.  That ought to seal it up good enough. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                                    -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                    okay so my father cracked the bottom of my tall aquarium and i wanted
                                                                                                                                                                                                    to know if it was still usable if i put sealant on it. the crack is at
                                                                                                                                                                                                    the bottom and isnt terribly long. the tank is 24 in long 12 in wide n
                                                                                                                                                                                                    16 in high.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11827 From: clarkmariposo25@aol.com Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: goldfish aquarium,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Make sure you rinse everything with water-NO SOAP!
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11828 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Pregnant or something else?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    My guppies don't do that when they are pregnant... They get really fat and
                                                                                                                                                                                                    a large black dot / colouring around there belly towards the tail end.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Generally I find my guppies scales look the same as normal...



                                                                                                                                                                                                    anyways if yours is really really fat and pregnant, try doing a 50% water
                                                                                                                                                                                                    change and the next morning or the day after that you should have heaps of
                                                                                                                                                                                                    babies (about 10 to 30ish).



                                                                                                                                                                                                    The mother always survive pregnancy and go on to have another batch not so
                                                                                                                                                                                                    long after. Be sure to separate the mum from the babies too otherwise she
                                                                                                                                                                                                    will eat them (cannibals).







                                                                                                                                                                                                    PS if you want i can try get a really clear pic over the weekend of my
                                                                                                                                                                                                    pregnant guppies to compair with yours. Mine are Native australian ones
                                                                                                                                                                                                    but i presume they should be the same as yours.



                                                                                                                                                                                                    =Nick




                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: "mommy2acdhsurvivor" <CK147@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 11:08 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] Pregnant or something else?


                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I have a few very very fat and pregnant guppies. I put the biggest
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > one in a breeder net and today looking at her ever so fat body she
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > looks pinconed out. You can see her scales popped out looking. Is this
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > just because she's very pregnant or is she sick. She eats fine and
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > acts fine I just happend to look down and saw her belly looking
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > pinconed. I've never put the females in a breeder net so I've never
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > looked that close at them while there pregnant so If anyone can tell
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > me if she's sick or just ready to pop out babies. Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11829 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Need help fast confused
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ive left my fish a week without food... they survived! You can feed them
                                                                                                                                                                                                    if you like, just enough for them to eat in 5 mins, that way they won't have
                                                                                                                                                                                                    any chance of starving to death.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    My tank took about a month to get right and stabalise, each night i did a
                                                                                                                                                                                                    good water change as told.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Amonia is toxic when the ph is either low or high i forget which but if you
                                                                                                                                                                                                    keep your ph at 7 i wouldn't worry about it too much. There are lots of
                                                                                                                                                                                                    webpages around just do a search.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.syngnathid.org/articles/ammonia.html



                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: "Cher" <sdkeppler@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 6:04 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help fast confused


                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Ok an artical in your files states if the amonia is high in your tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > to do a 10-15% water change daily at least once until the amonia and
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Nitrite are at zero.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > My nitrite is at zero but my amonia is still at 4.0 even with the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > change. Do I do another till it reaches zero or what?? I am not feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > my fish this is there secound day without food. Please post this soon I
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > am new to this. Thank you for any help you can give me....Cher
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11830 From: Dane & Leslie Moore Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Ethical Question on Feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I keep seeing posts on over feeding linked to ammonia linked to death.  The main solution to this seems to be to only feed a fish what they will consume in a matter of seconds so that no food makes it to the bottom to cause problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    If fish are gobbling up food within just seconds, this means they are extremely hungry.  Some don't feed for days on end so they will certainly eat what little they are given when they finally are fed.  So what this amounts to is starve your fish so that they will pathetically munch any bit of food you throw in the tank within just seconds so that it won't hit the bottom and cause ammonia. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    This is nothing like what occurs naturally for these guys nor is it humane. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm not posting this to gripe, honestly.  I just want to see what others have to nicely say about the subject.  I am still fairly new to this and am thinking it's definitely something I could do without.  It honestly breaks my  heart to think they are all going hungry.  Especially the big ones.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks for any considerate feedback. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 11831 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                      The files section.  Upload the picture there, tell it to send a notification to the group.  It takes a couple minutes longer.  I see I'm alone on this one, but when people start seeing German messages, don't say I didn't warn you. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Also a happy voice. :-)
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      By the way, my new quote in my signature was inspired by the German SPAM on another group that was negative literature about Churchill.   It was the end of my membership on that group.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                                      -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                      A lot of people post pictures on here of their sick fish etc...
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      These pictures are very helpful to identify the problems, this is one benefit of the attachments. How do you propose we facilitate this and disable attachments?
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      (I'm asking in a happy voice) :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11832 From: Cher Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: nicolas
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I said fish I ment crayfish,I took him out of the tank and put him in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                      bucket with an airstone the water is also declorinated ect. My tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                      is only a 2gallon I wasn't worried about him starving it was the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      amonia.I'm just going to let the tank cycle and keep changing his water
                                                                                                                                                                                                      as needed till the tank is ready.Thank you ....Cher
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11833 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Well, from what I've read, in nature, fish eat when they find food.  If they find a lot of food one day, they eat it, if they don't find any food one day, they don't eat.  Overfeeding leading to ammonia should really only apply to feeding to the point that the fish don't eat all of the food given to them so that some hits the bottom.  Also, fish food is a lot more nutritious than natural food.  Overfeeding with fish food will kill the fish, or make it really fat (not that being fat is a bad thing).
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Say you have two dogs, one lives in the forest on its own, the other in a house.  A magic pill has been created so one pill per day replaces an entire day's meal.  The person with the dog in the house has a whole bottle of pills, the dog eats the first one and seems to want more, the dog is given more pills, the dog is fat.  The dog in the forest has to search for food.  It averages the same amount of nutrition as just one of those pills, but it has to eat a lot more stuff.  The dog with the pills would be much better off with one pill per day, even though it feels hungry.  The extra space should be filled with water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                          This is true for fish.  Ants are one popular fish food, but they aren't very nutritious, so a lot of them have to be eaten.  On the other hand, fish food is loaded with nutrients (50% protein in mine), so not very much have to be eaten before the fish has all it needs.  Fish have plenty of water to drink in and fill the space normally filled by the water in their natural prey.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                                      -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I keep seeing posts on over feeding linked to ammonia linked to death.  The main solution to this seems to be to only feed a fish what they will consume in a matter of seconds so that no food makes it to the bottom to cause problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      If fish are gobbling up food within just seconds, this means they are extremely hungry.  Some don't feed for days on end so they will certainly eat what little they are given when they finally are fed.  So what this amounts to is starve your fish so that they will pathetically munch any bit of food you throw in the tank within just seconds so that it won't hit the bottom and cause ammonia. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                      This is nothing like what occurs naturally for these guys nor is it humane. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm not posting this to gripe, honestly.  I just want to see what others have to nicely say about the subject.  I am still fairly new to this and am thinking it's definitely something I could do without.  It honestly breaks my  heart to think they are all going hungry.  Especially the big ones.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks for any considerate feedback. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11834 From: Cher Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Dane & Leslie
                                                                                                                                                                                                      The food dosen't have to hit the bottom of the tank to cause amonia.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      The fish pee and poo from eating the food this puts amonia in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      tank.The only way I see it is the tank in order to be free of amonia
                                                                                                                                                                                                      must be cycled the bacteria will keep the amonia down with also weekly
                                                                                                                                                                                                      water changes. If it isn't cycled the amonia will go up like mine did
                                                                                                                                                                                                      it is a new tank and not cycled yet.....Hugs...Cher
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11835 From: knelson1701 Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I know how you feel. However. Fish do not need as much food as u
                                                                                                                                                                                                      think. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, and if you
                                                                                                                                                                                                      have small fish, their stomachs are very small. Fish are also
                                                                                                                                                                                                      adapted to live in an environment where food does not come at
                                                                                                                                                                                                      regular intervals, so fasting is not uncommon. In Fact your fish can
                                                                                                                                                                                                      survive for 2 weeks or so without any food at all.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Over feeding does not always relate to excess ammonia, if you clean
                                                                                                                                                                                                      your tank regulary it will not be an issue. Overfeeding causes your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      fish to get sick. However overfeeding will lead to excess ammonia
                                                                                                                                                                                                      if you do not clean your tank and filter on a regular basis.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I feed my fish enough for them to eat in a minute or so, and some
                                                                                                                                                                                                      does go to the bottom, but i clean the tank regulary and do partial
                                                                                                                                                                                                      water changes to keep everything clean. I hope this helps.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Keith


                                                                                                                                                                                                      -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dane & Leslie Moore"
                                                                                                                                                                                                      <amjmail@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I keep seeing posts on over feeding linked to ammonia linked to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      death.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > The main solution to this seems to be to only feed a fish what
                                                                                                                                                                                                      they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > consume in a matter of seconds so that no food makes it to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      bottom to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > cause problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > If fish are gobbling up food within just seconds, this means they
                                                                                                                                                                                                      are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > extremely hungry. Some don't feed for days on end so they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > certainly eat what little they are given when they finally are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      fed. So
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > what this amounts to is starve your fish so that they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                      pathetically
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > munch any bit of food you throw in the tank within just seconds so
                                                                                                                                                                                                      that
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > it won't hit the bottom and cause ammonia.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > This is nothing like what occurs naturally for these guys nor is it
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > humane.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I'm not posting this to gripe, honestly. I just want to see what
                                                                                                                                                                                                      others
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > have to nicely say about the subject. I am still fairly new to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      this and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > am thinking it's definitely something I could do without. It
                                                                                                                                                                                                      honestly
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > breaks my heart to think they are all going hungry. Especially
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the big
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > ones.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Thanks for any considerate feedback.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11836 From: knelson1701 Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Need help fast confused
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Is your tank new? If it is, you will not have any nitrite yet
                                                                                                                                                                                                      because the bacteria have not established themselves yet. You do not
                                                                                                                                                                                                      need to do water changes till the ammonia reaches zero, you need to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      have some in there for the bacteria to form. Ammonia will spike
                                                                                                                                                                                                      pretty high in a new tank. You can keep the levels kinda high, but not
                                                                                                                                                                                                      in the danger zone. Also watch your fish for signs of distress, like
                                                                                                                                                                                                      gasping at the surface. If you see that you need to do an immediate
                                                                                                                                                                                                      water change. I would not feed the fish for a few days until you get
                                                                                                                                                                                                      your ammonia problem under control. Do you have a lot of fish in it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      If you do you may have overstocked it. This is all assuming you have
                                                                                                                                                                                                      a new tank. Let me Know.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Keith

                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Cher" <sdkeppler@n...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Ok an artical in your files states if the amonia is high in your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > to do a 10-15% water change daily at least once until the amonia and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Nitrite are at zero.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > My nitrite is at zero but my amonia is still at 4.0 even with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      water
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > change. Do I do another till it reaches zero or what?? I am not
                                                                                                                                                                                                      feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > my fish this is there secound day without food. Please post this
                                                                                                                                                                                                      soon I
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > am new to this. Thank you for any help you can give me....Cher
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11837 From: nbv Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Virus Help !

                                                                                                                                                                                                      As you may know, when/if a worm virus gets into
                                                                                                                                                                                                      your computer it heads straight for your email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      address book and sends itself to everyone in there,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      thus infecting all your friends and associates.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      This trick won't keep the virus from getting into
                                                                                                                                                                                                      your computer, but it will stop it from using your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      address book to spread further, and it will alert you
                                                                                                                                                                                                      to the fact that the worm has gotten into your system.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Here's what you do:

                                                                                                                                                                                                      First: Open your address book and click on "new
                                                                                                                                                                                                      contact" or "new person" just as you would do if
                                                                                                                                                                                                      you were adding a new friend to your list of email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      addresses.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Second: In the window where you would type your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      friend's FIRST name, type in ! 000 (that's an
                                                                                                                                                                                                      exclamation mark followed by 3 zeros). In the window
                                                                                                                                                                                                      below where it prompts you to enter the new email address,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      type in Worm Alert.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Third: Then complete everything by clicking add,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      enter, OK, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Now, here's what you've done and why it works:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the "name" !000 will be placed at the top of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      address book as entry #1. This will be where the worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                      will start in an effort to send itself to all your friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      But when it tries to send itself to !000, it will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      undeliverable because of the phony email address
                                                                                                                                                                                                      you entered (Worm Alert). If the first attempt fails
                                                                                                                                                                                                      (which it will because of the phony address), the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      worm goes no further and your friends will not be infected.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Here's the second great advantage of this method:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      If an email cannot be delivered, you will be notified
                                                                                                                                                                                                      of this in your InBox almost immediately.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hence, if you ever get an email telling you that an
                                                                                                                                                                                                      email addressed to Worm Alert could not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      delivered, you know right away that you have the worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                      virus in your system. You can then take steps to get
                                                                                                                                                                                                      rid of it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Pretty slick huh?

                                                                                                                                                                                                      If everybody you know does this, then you needn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                      ever worry about opening mail from friends.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Pass this on to your friends.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------------------------------------------------------------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 11:01:00 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > From: "Patrick, AAFG" <patrickmn1@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I agree, but this particular virus can cause me problems when I don't even
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > have it. I have heard about it on several different groups. If it was to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > get on your computer and find a message stored on it from me, it could
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > start
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > sending messages in both of our names. People like us that protect
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > ourselves and don't open random attachments could have their accounts used
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > because of those won don't and do.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11838 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/26/2005 8:24:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, amjmail@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      If fish are gobbling up food within just seconds, this means they are extremely hungry.  Some don't feed for days on end so they will certainly eat what little they are given when they finally are fed.  So what this amounts to is starve your fish so that they will pathetically munch any bit of food you throw in the tank within just seconds so that it won't hit the bottom and cause ammonia. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      This is nothing like what occurs naturally for these guys nor is it humane. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hmmm?  I think there are some misperceptions here.  In the wild some fish travel in schools, some as a pair and some are alone.  When they come across food they do not take their time and slowly consume the food, they eat it as fast as they can before another fish eats it.  Also food in the wild is not given to them and they have to go look for it unless they have other strategies for food like an ambush predator.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Also fish are prey themselves and they have to be on the look out so they do not get consumed themselves. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Many people that keep fish will take a day off in their feeding cycle to allow the food in the fish to fully pass before starting up the next six days of feeding.  I think it can help cut down on bloat in some fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I know of one very succesfull  cichlid breeder that told me it is okay to skip feeding Frontosa cichlids for a while because they are not a very active fish and they mostly hang motionless unless disturbed.  They can survive on their reserves for quite some time with no stress.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Mouth brooding cichlids carry their eggs in their mouthes until they hatch and then carry them for a while after that.  It is natural for these fish to fast during this time.  Otherwise their offspring would be unprotected and fish that do eat fast would consume them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Different fish have different requirements.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      A bit off topic but as an example.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I used to raise baby parrots and if you feed them too much it can cause damage to their crop, stretch it too much and it developes folds and not all food can get out of these folds.  As a result they develop bacterial infections in their crop and stomache and can no longer pass food.  Then they can and will die.  So I need to know how much to feed them and to not let them over eat and believe me they will try to eat as much as you offer them. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I used to think that fish needed more food and overfed them and they died.  My co worker at work overfed two tanks of fish I had and killed every fish in both tanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      It may appear cruel but different fish and different creatures need different things.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Were you looking for information from a fish breeder, Icthyologist or?
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11839 From: paul helms Date: 5/26/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                      or just don't use crap like outlook!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- nbv <nickvillarruz@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > As you may know, when/if a worm virus gets into
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > your computer it heads straight for your email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > address book and sends itself to everyone in there,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > thus infecting all your friends and associates.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > This trick won't keep the virus from getting into
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > your computer, but it will stop it from using your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > address book to spread further, and it will alert
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > you
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > to the fact that the worm has gotten into your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > system.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Here's what you do:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > First: Open your address book and click on "new
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > contact" or "new person" just as you would do if
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > you were adding a new friend to your list of email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > addresses.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Second: In the window where you would type your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > friend's FIRST name, type in ! 000 (that's an
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > exclamation mark followed by 3 zeros). In the window
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > below where it prompts you to enter the new email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > address,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > type in Worm Alert.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Third: Then complete everything by clicking add,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > enter, OK, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Now, here's what you've done and why it works:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the "name" !000 will be placed at the top of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > address book as entry #1. This will be where the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > will start in an effort to send itself to all your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > But when it tries to send itself to !000, it will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > undeliverable because of the phony email address
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > you entered (Worm Alert). If the first attempt fails
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > (which it will because of the phony address), the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > worm goes no further and your friends will not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > infected.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Here's the second great advantage of this method:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > If an email cannot be delivered, you will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > notified
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > of this in your InBox almost immediately.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Hence, if you ever get an email telling you that an
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > email addressed to Worm Alert could not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > delivered, you know right away that you have the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > virus in your system. You can then take steps to get
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > rid of it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Pretty slick huh?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > If everybody you know does this, then you needn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > ever worry about opening mail from friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Pass this on to your friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 11:01:00 -0500 (Central
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Daylight Time)
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > From: "Patrick, AAFG" <patrickmn1@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > I agree, but this particular virus can cause me
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > problems when I don't even
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > have it. I have heard about it on several
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > different groups. If it was to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > get on your computer and find a message stored on
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > it from me, it could
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > start
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > sending messages in both of our names. People
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > like us that protect
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > ourselves and don't open random attachments could
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > have their accounts used
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > because of those won don't and do.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >



                                                                                                                                                                                                      __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11840 From: Cher Date: 5/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yes my tank is new 2gallons and I have one crayfish. I removed him as
                                                                                                                                                                                                      in my last post to a bucket today as I didnot want the high amonia to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      kill him it read 4.0 what do you consider the danger zone this is what
                                                                                                                                                                                                      my book called the danger zone actually they said deadly...Cher
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11841 From: Cher Date: 5/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Your talking fish,so what size is a crayfish stomach? Also your talking
                                                                                                                                                                                                      a cycled tank.From my observations my crayfish chops it all up then
                                                                                                                                                                                                      eats there is food all over the place on the bottom because of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                      then he feeds and dosen't always eat it all right away like a fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                      does. The particals are so small how the heck do you remove this before
                                                                                                                                                                                                      it creates a huge problem? Thank you .....Cher
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11842 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Should the virus or worm actually use your address as a reply address, that
                                                                                                                                                                                                      may work, however, an address is chosen at random for the reply, as is the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      sending address. Paul suggests not using "Outlook crap" as an e-mail reader.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Unfortunately, that also does not work. Today's remailing virus use all
                                                                                                                                                                                                      sources of addresses to replicate themselves, including any address book it
                                                                                                                                                                                                      can find, HTML files on your machine, XML files, documents, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      If you do wish to avoid virus infection, look to a non-Microsoft OS such as
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the Mac (though there are virus that do target Macs despite the claims to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the contrary) or Linux, which is more prone to trojans than virus. The best
                                                                                                                                                                                                      defense is to have an up-to-date anti-virus program, with current definition
                                                                                                                                                                                                      files, don't open suspicious e-mails, and never, ever open attachments you
                                                                                                                                                                                                      do not expect to receive.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Spyware? That's a whole different story.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of nbv
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 12:56 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Cc: patrickmn1@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 792: Virus Help !

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Virus Help !

                                                                                                                                                                                                      As you may know, when/if a worm virus gets into
                                                                                                                                                                                                      your computer it heads straight for your email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      address book and sends itself to everyone in there,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      thus infecting all your friends and associates.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      This trick won't keep the virus from getting into
                                                                                                                                                                                                      your computer, but it will stop it from using your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      address book to spread further, and it will alert you
                                                                                                                                                                                                      to the fact that the worm has gotten into your system.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Here's what you do:

                                                                                                                                                                                                      First: Open your address book and click on "new
                                                                                                                                                                                                      contact" or "new person" just as you would do if
                                                                                                                                                                                                      you were adding a new friend to your list of email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      addresses.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Second: In the window where you would type your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      friend's FIRST name, type in ! 000 (that's an
                                                                                                                                                                                                      exclamation mark followed by 3 zeros). In the window
                                                                                                                                                                                                      below where it prompts you to enter the new email address,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      type in Worm Alert.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Third: Then complete everything by clicking add,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      enter, OK, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Now, here's what you've done and why it works:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the "name" !000 will be placed at the top of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      address book as entry #1. This will be where the worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                      will start in an effort to send itself to all your friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      But when it tries to send itself to !000, it will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      undeliverable because of the phony email address
                                                                                                                                                                                                      you entered (Worm Alert). If the first attempt fails
                                                                                                                                                                                                      (which it will because of the phony address), the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      worm goes no further and your friends will not be infected.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Here's the second great advantage of this method:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      If an email cannot be delivered, you will be notified
                                                                                                                                                                                                      of this in your InBox almost immediately.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hence, if you ever get an email telling you that an
                                                                                                                                                                                                      email addressed to Worm Alert could not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      delivered, you know right away that you have the worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                      virus in your system. You can then take steps to get
                                                                                                                                                                                                      rid of it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Pretty slick huh?

                                                                                                                                                                                                      If everybody you know does this, then you needn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                      ever worry about opening mail from friends.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Pass this on to your friends.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------------------------------------------------------------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 11:01:00 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > From: "Patrick, AAFG" <patrickmn1@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I agree, but this particular virus can cause me problems when I don't even
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > have it. I have heard about it on several different groups. If it was to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > get on your computer and find a message stored on it from me, it could
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > start
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > sending messages in both of our names. People like us that protect
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > ourselves and don't open random attachments could have their accounts used
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > because of those won don't and do.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >






                                                                                                                                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      .
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                                      in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11843 From: Evita Date: 5/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: goldfish aquarium,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Depending on the cost of getting the glass cut to size and the cost of replacement of the tank sometimes the glass can cost more.  But I would look into it. Pretty good idea.  Evita

                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Patrick, AAFG" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Get a piece of glass to fit over the bottom and put plenty of sealant all around the edges of the glass and around the crack, and maybe rings of sealant all the way around it to the edges of the glass.  That ought to seal it up good enough. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                                      -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                      okay so my father cracked the bottom of my tall aquarium and i wanted
                                                                                                                                                                                                      to know if it was still usable if i put sealant on it. the crack is at
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the bottom and isnt terribly long. the tank is 24 in long 12 in wide n
                                                                                                                                                                                                      16 in high.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      .
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                                                      Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11844 From: hnorton1cogeco.ca Date: 5/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message
                                                                                                                                                                                                      When feeding my fish I dont have the tank so full on plants and ods and ends so as to see see who gets food and who dosent I also dont have the tank filled with to many fish .Some fish are shy and dont like being crouded .Why not have a vacume tube to clean up your gravel every week or or a few days apart so you can check to see if food is rotting .I grind my food and treets up to fin granuals for my small mouth fish and buy pellets for the larger ones .Just my way of doing things for over thirty years of mistakes.Learning from our mistakes is sad but true.That is what makes us human.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Heather Norton
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      From Dana & Lesie Moore ? I keep seeing posts on over feeding linked to ammonia linked to death.  The main solution to this seems to be to only feed a fish what they will consume in a matter of seconds so that no food makes it to the bottom to cause problems.If fish are gobbling up food within just seconds, this means they are extremely hungry.  Some don't feed for days on end so they will certainly eat what little they are given when they finally are fed.  So what this amounts to is starve your fish so that they will pathetically munch any bit of food you throw in the tank within just seconds so that it won't hit the bottom and cause ammonia.This is nothing like what occurs naturally for these guys nor is it humane.I'm not posting this to gripe, honestly.  I just want to see what others have to nicely say about the subject.  I am still fairly new to this and am thinking it's definitely something I could do without.  It honestly breaks my  heart to think they are all going hungry. Especially the big ones.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks for any considerate feedback.


                                                                                                                                                                                                      Upgrade Your Email - Click here!

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11845 From: Jill Marie Date: 5/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: small room with an air conditioner!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      ok thanks...!

                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Patrick, AAFG" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      As long as the temperature doesn't change more than 2 or 3 degrees, I wouldn't worry.  The heater should keep up with it. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                                      -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I do keep the thermometer at 76 to 82.. but I was wondering if the room is freezing with the air conditioner, will it have an effect on the thermometer's effectiveness... also no do not have an undergravel filter, the filter that we use is working well now that I removed the algae eater, he was making a big mess in the tank... knock wood the baby mollies, and baby guppies seem to be doing ok.. I have one adult molly left.. I did have 4, and I have one adult guppy left, the mom died.. that broke my heart, but I am thankful to have her babies... as you can see I love this tank more than my son.. *laughs* thanks so much for all your help... Jill
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      .
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


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                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11846 From: kb1dva Date: 5/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: confused

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Ok I get that overfeeding is bad, an occasionally hungry fish is ok. But is feeding floating pellets good.  Can you starve your fish? Also I measured the distance between the supports on the tank it seems to measure 22 inches. I have seen lighting that’s 20 inches and 24 but no 22 what’s wrong with this picture.            Emily

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11847 From: TankGurl Date: 5/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: confused
                                                                                                                                                                                                      On 5/27/05, kb1dva <vze3pd7a@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Ok I get that overfeeding is bad, an occasionally hungry fish is ok. But is
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > feeding floating pellets good.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      The use of floating pellets generally depends on the species of fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                      you're feeding. For instance, feeding frontosa floating pellets can
                                                                                                                                                                                                      result in air intake and 'float'. Also, floating pellets have a way of
                                                                                                                                                                                                      floating in behind the filters and whatnot, which can effect your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      parameters.



                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the distance between the supports on the tank it seems to measure 22 inches.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I have seen lighting that's 20 inches and 24 but no 22 what's wrong with
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > this picture.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      The lighting housing usually extends over the supports, not in
                                                                                                                                                                                                      between. Measure from the top, one end of the tank to the other.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      You'll more than likely find it's 24 inches.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Kelly

                                                                                                                                                                                                      --
                                                                                                                                                                                                      65g Malawi
                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?fish_gurl
                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=7176
                                                                                                                                                                                                      135g Frontosa/Tang
                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=8011
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11848 From: Amalthea Date: 5/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                      just to clarify, it's not only the food that falls to the bottom of the tank that creates ammonia, but also the food the fish eat. i don't think anyone is suggesting that you starve your fish, but once a day is fine. fish in the wild spend a LOT more of their time avoiding death than the do eating. it's not one big all you can eat buffet out there no matter what level the fish are on.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      amalthea

                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.amaltheasattic.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Your Alternative to the Alternative....


                                                                                                                                                                                                      On May 26, 2005, at 11:24 PM, Dane & Leslie Moore wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I keep seeing posts on over feeding linked to ammonia linked to death.  The main solution to this seems to be to only feed a fish what they will consume in a matter of seconds so that no food makes it to the bottom to cause problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      If fish are gobbling up food within just seconds, this means they are extremely hungry.  Some don't feed for days on end so they will certainly eat what little they are given when they finally are fed.  So what this amounts to is starve your fish so that they will pathetically munch any bit of food you throw in the tank within just seconds so that it won't hit the bottom and cause ammonia. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      This is nothing like what occurs naturally for these guys nor is it humane. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm not posting this to gripe, honestly.  I just want to see what others have to nicely say about the subject.  I am still fairly new to this and am thinking it's definitely something I could do without.  It honestly breaks my  heart to think they are all going hungry.  Especially the big ones.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks for any considerate feedback. 


                                                                                                                                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      .
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter




                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yahoo! Groups Links


                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11849 From: paul helms Date: 5/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                      just like viruses, adware and spyware are no problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                      if you have a clue as to what you are doing
                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Should the virus or worm actually use your address
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > as a reply address, that
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > may work, however, an address is chosen at random
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > for the reply, as is the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > sending address. Paul suggests not using "Outlook
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > crap" as an e-mail reader.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Unfortunately, that also does not work. Today's
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > remailing virus use all
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > sources of addresses to replicate themselves,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > including any address book it
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > can find, HTML files on your machine, XML files,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > documents, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > If you do wish to avoid virus infection, look to a
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > non-Microsoft OS such as
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the Mac (though there are virus that do target Macs
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > despite the claims to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the contrary) or Linux, which is more prone to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > trojans than virus. The best
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > defense is to have an up-to-date anti-virus program,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > with current definition
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > files, don't open suspicious e-mails, and never,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > ever open attachments you
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > do not expect to receive.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Spyware? That's a whole different story.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Behalf Of nbv
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 12:56 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Cc: patrickmn1@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 792: Virus
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > As you may know, when/if a worm virus gets into
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > your computer it heads straight for your email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > address book and sends itself to everyone in there,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > thus infecting all your friends and associates.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > This trick won't keep the virus from getting into
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > your computer, but it will stop it from using your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > address book to spread further, and it will alert
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > you
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > to the fact that the worm has gotten into your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > system.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Here's what you do:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > First: Open your address book and click on "new
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > contact" or "new person" just as you would do if
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > you were adding a new friend to your list of email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > addresses.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Second: In the window where you would type your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > friend's FIRST name, type in ! 000 (that's an
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > exclamation mark followed by 3 zeros). In the window
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > below where it prompts you to enter the new email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > address,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > type in Worm Alert.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Third: Then complete everything by clicking add,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > enter, OK, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Now, here's what you've done and why it works:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the "name" !000 will be placed at the top of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > address book as entry #1. This will be where the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > will start in an effort to send itself to all your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > But when it tries to send itself to !000, it will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > undeliverable because of the phony email address
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > you entered (Worm Alert). If the first attempt fails
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > (which it will because of the phony address), the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > worm goes no further and your friends will not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > infected.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Here's the second great advantage of this method:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > If an email cannot be delivered, you will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > notified
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > of this in your InBox almost immediately.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Hence, if you ever get an email telling you that an
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > email addressed to Worm Alert could not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > delivered, you know right away that you have the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > virus in your system. You can then take steps to get
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > rid of it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Pretty slick huh?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > If everybody you know does this, then you needn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > ever worry about opening mail from friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Pass this on to your friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 11:01:00 -0500 (Central
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Daylight Time)
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > From: "Patrick, AAFG" <patrickmn1@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > I agree, but this particular virus can cause me
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > problems when I don't even
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > have it. I have heard about it on several
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > different groups. If it was to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > get on your computer and find a message stored on
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > it from me, it could
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > start
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > sending messages in both of our names. People
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > like us that protect
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > ourselves and don't open random attachments could
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > have their accounts used
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > because of those won don't and do.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the reply and if changing the topic of the original
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >




                                                                                                                                                                                                      __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
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                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11850 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                      yep, most it people advocate other email programs than ms outlook due to ms's low security but
                                                                                                                                                                                                      high user friendliness programs. at my former company, the mis/it guy told me eudora is better
                                                                                                                                                                                                      than outlook when it comes to security. however, the best bet is to not open attachments unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                      you're expecting them, or verify with the sender that they knowingly sent them to you. and of
                                                                                                                                                                                                      course, don't download anything off the web unless you know it's secure. always keep your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      anti-virus programs current!

                                                                                                                                                                                                      and if you have access to these programs, do a norton cleaning on your computer now and install
                                                                                                                                                                                                      spyware & ad blocker software onto your computer. these methods are not 100% effective but are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      better than not doing anything.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                      > or just don't use crap like outlook!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > --- nbv <nickvillarruz@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > As you may know, when/if a worm virus gets into
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > your computer it heads straight for your email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > address book and sends itself to everyone in there,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > thus infecting all your friends and associates.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > This trick won't keep the virus from getting into
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > your computer, but it will stop it from using your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > address book to spread further, and it will alert
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > to the fact that the worm has gotten into your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > system.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Here's what you do:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > First: Open your address book and click on "new
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > contact" or "new person" just as you would do if
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > you were adding a new friend to your list of email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > addresses.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Second: In the window where you would type your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > friend's FIRST name, type in ! 000 (that's an
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > exclamation mark followed by 3 zeros). In the window
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > below where it prompts you to enter the new email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > address,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > type in Worm Alert.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Third: Then complete everything by clicking add,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > enter, OK, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Now, here's what you've done and why it works:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > the "name" !000 will be placed at the top of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > address book as entry #1. This will be where the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > will start in an effort to send itself to all your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > But when it tries to send itself to !000, it will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > undeliverable because of the phony email address
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > you entered (Worm Alert). If the first attempt fails
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > (which it will because of the phony address), the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > worm goes no further and your friends will not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > infected.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Here's the second great advantage of this method:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > If an email cannot be delivered, you will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > notified
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > of this in your InBox almost immediately.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Hence, if you ever get an email telling you that an
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > email addressed to Worm Alert could not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > delivered, you know right away that you have the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > virus in your system. You can then take steps to get
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > rid of it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Pretty slick huh?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > If everybody you know does this, then you needn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > ever worry about opening mail from friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Pass this on to your friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 11:01:00 -0500 (Central
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Daylight Time)
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > From: "Patrick, AAFG" <patrickmn1@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > I agree, but this particular virus can cause me
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > problems when I don't even
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > have it. I have heard about it on several
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > different groups. If it was to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > get on your computer and find a message stored on
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > it from me, it could
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > start
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > sending messages in both of our names. People
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > like us that protect
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > ourselves and don't open random attachments could
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > have their accounts used
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > because of those won don't and do.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >


                                                                                                                                                                                                      Valeen Robertson Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11851 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                      aren't fish like horses, in that they can eat & eat & eat & not stop until they get sick, just
                                                                                                                                                                                                      because the food is available? if so then just because they appear to be starving because they're
                                                                                                                                                                                                      eating so much and so quickly everytime you feed, it doesn't mean they're actually starving.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      in the wild fish can't possibly eat at regular intervals as they do when we feed them
                                                                                                                                                                                                      daily/weekly/however you choose, so when they see their chance to eat they literally grab it. this
                                                                                                                                                                                                      behavior is probably replicated in our aquariums and doesn't mean we're starving them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      if you've ever had dogs, they are kind of like the fish. they can beg like crazy for food and make
                                                                                                                                                                                                      you think you're starving them, when in reality, they're just begging because they can see/smell
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the food and may not actually be hungry at all! my mom's 2 spoiled rotten schnauzers do this all
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the time and i know for a fact my mom probably feeds them more than is good for them. they
                                                                                                                                                                                                      definitely are not starving, yet they beg for food as if she is.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      leslie, i wouldn't worry about starving your fish, from what i can tell you seem to take great
                                                                                                                                                                                                      care of your fish!

                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- Dane & Leslie Moore <amjmail@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I keep seeing posts on over feeding linked to ammonia linked to death.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > The main solution to this seems to be to only feed a fish what they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > consume in a matter of seconds so that no food makes it to the bottom to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > cause problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > If fish are gobbling up food within just seconds, this means they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > extremely hungry. Some don't feed for days on end so they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > certainly eat what little they are given when they finally are fed. So
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > what this amounts to is starve your fish so that they will pathetically
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > munch any bit of food you throw in the tank within just seconds so that
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > it won't hit the bottom and cause ammonia.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > This is nothing like what occurs naturally for these guys nor is it
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > humane.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I'm not posting this to gripe, honestly. I just want to see what others
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > have to nicely say about the subject. I am still fairly new to this and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > am thinking it's definitely something I could do without. It honestly
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > breaks my heart to think they are all going hungry. Especially the big
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > ones.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Thanks for any considerate feedback.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >


                                                                                                                                                                                                      Valeen Robertson Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11852 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: raised black spots on new fish / trematodes
                                                                                                                                                                                                      For what it is worth - many in the reptile world consider this a
                                                                                                                                                                                                      controversial drug as it easy to OD




                                                                                                                                                                                                      At 02:30 PM 5/22/2005, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >I have heard that these parasites can be treated with a drug called
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >Ivermectin available from Vets in various forms. The aviculture fraternity
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >use it also to treat parasitic problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >Cheers
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >Bruce (Hansen)
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >ANGFA (Qld) Inc - http://www.angfaqld.org.au/
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >From: "Ray Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 6:36 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: raised black spots on new fish / trematodes
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > No, it will not spread to other fish. While pond snails are in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Genus Helisoma, this parasite needs birds to complete the cycle, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > it will not spread to your snails. The cycle goes from snails to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > fish to birds then back to snails, etc. Aside from the fact that
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > I've read conflicting accounts concerning the toxicity of formalin
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > towards inverts, I tend to believe it is toxic to them and may well
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > wipe out your nitrifying bacteria culture as well, so probably best
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > not to use it in an established tank with snails. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > \
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Tenczar <bababanana@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> Well, I do have a lot of cone snails and other small pond snails.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Will this cause it to spread to other fish, or not because I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > have any birds living in the tank :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> Also is formalin toxic to inverts?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> Emily
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> Emily, These Black Spots are parasites often found on wild or pond
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> (outdoor) raised fish. They're caused by Digentic Trematodes (of
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> various Neascus species) and are untreatable as far as I know,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> although too, they are not contagious. These parasites need certain
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> snails (of the genus Helasoma) as an intermediate host, and in most
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> cases water birds, such as kingfishers and herons, are the third
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > host
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> in its life-cycle. When infecting a fish, they form a cyst at which
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> point the fish grows black pigmented tissue over them. They are not
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> spread fish to fish. You could try piercing and/or scraping the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > spot
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> or spots if there aren't too many and if this doesn't cause the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> too much discomfort, and treating the tank with formalin. No
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> guarantees with this -- the cysts are protected with the fish's
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> overgrowth -- but similar parasites are eliminated with this
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> medication. Otherwise just leave it be, the spots won't kill the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> fish unless heavily infested, although it is unsightly. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >> \
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11853 From: r_ohle@pacbell.net Date: 5/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Anubias
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >What do you do when an Anubia is getting so large it is now growing above
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >the water line of a 65 gallon tank????

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11854 From: knelson1701 Date: 5/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                      i don't have experience with crayfish. but as long as u keep the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      ammonia in safe levels you should be ok, till the tank cycles. as for
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the food on the bottom, get a gravel siphon and clean the bottom on a
                                                                                                                                                                                                      regular basis, this will get rid of the excess food and help with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      ammonia levels. hope that helps

                                                                                                                                                                                                      keith

                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Cher" <sdkeppler@n...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Your talking fish,so what size is a crayfish stomach? Also your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      talking
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > a cycled tank.From my observations my crayfish chops it all up then
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > eats there is food all over the place on the bottom because of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > then he feeds and dosen't always eat it all right away like a fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > does. The particals are so small how the heck do you remove this
                                                                                                                                                                                                      before
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > it creates a huge problem? Thank you .....Cher
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11855 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Cichlid Research Center
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Cichlid Research Home Page
                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://cichlidresearch.com/

                                                                                                                                                                                                      The Cichlid Research Home Page was developed by Professor Ron Coleman of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Biological Sciences Department at California State University, Sacramento.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      The website offers information and resources for hobbyists, scientists, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      budding researchers interested in cichlid fishes. The site provides
                                                                                                                                                                                                      information about Coleman's research including descriptions of two ongoing
                                                                                                                                                                                                      investigations, the Cichlid Egg Project and the Cichlid Mouthbrooder
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Project. For visitors just learning about cichlids, the site offers several
                                                                                                                                                                                                      helpful sections including Introduction to Cichlids, Cichlid Anatomy,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Cichlid Names, a Cichlid Glossary, and a section about Becoming a Cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Researcher. The site also offers a FAQ page, and Dr. Coleman invites
                                                                                                                                                                                                      targeted queries from college, high school, and elementary school students.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      The website lists a number of upcoming conferences, and contains an email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      directory of hobbyists and scientists interested in cichlids. The site
                                                                                                                                                                                                      contains an extensive collection of related links as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      >From The NSDL Scout Report for the Life Sciences, Copyright Internet Scout
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Project 1994-2005. http://scout.wisc.edu/


                                                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      But set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11856 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Cichlid Research Center
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hi Steve thanks for posting that,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Dr. Coleman also speaks at Aquarium clubs and if any of you get a chance go and see his presentation it is worth going to.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Mike 
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: Steve Szabo <steve@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Fri, 27 May 2005 19:55:33 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Cichlid Research Center

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Cichlid Research Home Page
                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://cichlidresearch.com/
                                                                                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                                                                      The Cichlid Research Home Page was developed by Professor Ron Coleman of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Biological Sciences Department at California State University, Sacramento.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      The website offers information and resources for hobbyists, scientists, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      budding researchers interested in cichlid fishes. The site provides
                                                                                                                                                                                                      information about Coleman's research including descriptions of two ongoing
                                                                                                                                                                                                      investigations, the Cichlid Egg Project and the Cichlid Mouthbrooder
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Project. For visitors just learning about cichlids, the site offers several
                                                                                                                                                                                                      helpful sections including Introduction to Cichlids, Cichlid Anatomy,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Cichlid Names, a Cichlid Glossary, and a section about Becoming a Cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Researcher. The site also offers a FAQ page, and Dr. Coleman invites
                                                                                                                                                                                                      targeted queries from college, high school, and elementary school students.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      The website lists a number of upcoming conferences, and contains an email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      directory of hobbyists and scientists interested in cichlids. The site
                                                                                                                                                                                                      contains an extensive collection of related links as well.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >From The NSDL Scout Report for the Life Sciences, Copyright Internet Scout
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Project 1994-2005. http://scout.wisc.edu/ \\Steve// Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute. But set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> <FONT COLOR="#000099">What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! </FONT><A HREF="http://us.click.yahoo.com/TzSHvD/SOnJAA/79vVAA/ANOolB/TM"><B>Click Here!</B></A> --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks . Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11857 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/27/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Valeen,

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Norton is a NO, NO, NO as and anti-virus program or as an internet security
                                                                                                                                                                                                      suite. I see far too many problems with the Symantec product to be able to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      recommend them. More problems come from Norton than all the other products
                                                                                                                                                                                                      combined.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I spend my days mostly in the corporate world, working with many clients. If
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I am done early enough to actually get back to the office, I see consumer
                                                                                                                                                                                                      (home) machines. I was a fan of the Symantec corporate edition until early
                                                                                                                                                                                                      last year, when I saw too many problems with it. Most of our clients are now
                                                                                                                                                                                                      running something other than Symantec, mostly McAfee or TrendMicro. It was
                                                                                                                                                                                                      cheaper to switch than to pay us to fix the problems. A lot of the machines
                                                                                                                                                                                                      we saw coming into the shop were having problems due to the failings of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Norton software. They have pretty much switched--most do not owe an
                                                                                                                                                                                                      allegiance to a particular product--they just want one that works and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                      don't have to worry about.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      In the evenings I do telephone tech support for a small ISP who wires
                                                                                                                                                                                                      apartment and condominium buildings for high speed internet. Since I am only
                                                                                                                                                                                                      responsible for the connection, I don't see problems with the AV portion of
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the product, but the firewall portion is poor, to say the least. I've seen
                                                                                                                                                                                                      many cases where the product has completely shut down access to the NIC, not
                                                                                                                                                                                                      allowing any traffic to pass. I shut it down (well, they shut it down at my
                                                                                                                                                                                                      direction), end of problem. I generally recommend another firewall product
                                                                                                                                                                                                      for them. I've not seen the problem with other firewall products.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 2:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 792: Virus Help !

                                                                                                                                                                                                      yep, most it people advocate other email programs than ms outlook due to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      ms's low security but
                                                                                                                                                                                                      high user friendliness programs. at my former company, the mis/it guy told
                                                                                                                                                                                                      me eudora is better
                                                                                                                                                                                                      than outlook when it comes to security. however, the best bet is to not open
                                                                                                                                                                                                      attachments unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                      you're expecting them, or verify with the sender that they knowingly sent
                                                                                                                                                                                                      them to you. and of
                                                                                                                                                                                                      course, don't download anything off the web unless you know it's secure.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      always keep your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      anti-virus programs current!

                                                                                                                                                                                                      and if you have access to these programs, do a norton cleaning on your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      computer now and install
                                                                                                                                                                                                      spyware & ad blocker software onto your computer. these methods are not 100%
                                                                                                                                                                                                      effective but are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      better than not doing anything.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                      > or just don't use crap like outlook!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > --- nbv <nickvillarruz@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > As you may know, when/if a worm virus gets into
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > your computer it heads straight for your email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > address book and sends itself to everyone in there,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > thus infecting all your friends and associates.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > This trick won't keep the virus from getting into
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > your computer, but it will stop it from using your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > address book to spread further, and it will alert
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > to the fact that the worm has gotten into your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > system.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Here's what you do:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > First: Open your address book and click on "new
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > contact" or "new person" just as you would do if
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > you were adding a new friend to your list of email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > addresses.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Second: In the window where you would type your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > friend's FIRST name, type in ! 000 (that's an
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > exclamation mark followed by 3 zeros). In the window
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > below where it prompts you to enter the new email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > address,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > type in Worm Alert.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Third: Then complete everything by clicking add,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > enter, OK, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Now, here's what you've done and why it works:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > the "name" !000 will be placed at the top of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > address book as entry #1. This will be where the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > will start in an effort to send itself to all your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > But when it tries to send itself to !000, it will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > undeliverable because of the phony email address
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > you entered (Worm Alert). If the first attempt fails
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > (which it will because of the phony address), the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > worm goes no further and your friends will not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > infected.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Here's the second great advantage of this method:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > If an email cannot be delivered, you will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > notified
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > of this in your InBox almost immediately.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Hence, if you ever get an email telling you that an
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > email addressed to Worm Alert could not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > delivered, you know right away that you have the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > virus in your system. You can then take steps to get
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > rid of it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Pretty slick huh?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > If everybody you know does this, then you needn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > ever worry about opening mail from friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Pass this on to your friends.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------------------<snip>---------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11858 From: Paul N. Chung Date: 5/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Do we have a Fish Doctor on board?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Dear Friends,
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      May I kindly ask if we have an active Fish Doctor who is interested in helping Fish Keepers on topics related to fish health & fish diseases?
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have created an online message board/forum where it talks about "General" Fish keeping
                                                                                                                                                                                                      If anyone is interested, please do reply.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Many thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Paul


                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yahoo! Mail Mobile
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11859 From: paul helms Date: 5/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                      all you need is zone alarm pro and web root spy
                                                                                                                                                                                                      sweeper, and norhing will get into your system. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                      have been running 3 months withour any spyware,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      adware, or viruses, on a cabl;e modem that is on 24/7
                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Valeen,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Norton is a NO, NO, NO as and anti-virus program or
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > as an internet security
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > suite. I see far too many problems with the Symantec
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > product to be able to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > recommend them. More problems come from Norton than
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > all the other products
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > combined.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I spend my days mostly in the corporate world,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > working with many clients. If
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I am done early enough to actually get back to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > office, I see consumer
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > (home) machines. I was a fan of the Symantec
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > corporate edition until early
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > last year, when I saw too many problems with it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Most of our clients are now
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > running something other than Symantec, mostly McAfee
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > or TrendMicro. It was
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > cheaper to switch than to pay us to fix the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > problems. A lot of the machines
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > we saw coming into the shop were having problems due
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > to the failings of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Norton software. They have pretty much
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > switched--most do not owe an
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > allegiance to a particular product--they just want
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > one that works and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > don't have to worry about.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > In the evenings I do telephone tech support for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > small ISP who wires
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > apartment and condominium buildings for high speed
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > internet. Since I am only
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > responsible for the connection, I don't see problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > with the AV portion of
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the product, but the firewall portion is poor, to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > say the least. I've seen
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > many cases where the product has completely shut
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > down access to the NIC, not
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > allowing any traffic to pass. I shut it down (well,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > they shut it down at my
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > direction), end of problem. I generally recommend
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > another firewall product
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > for them. I've not seen the problem with other
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > firewall products.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Behalf Of Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 2:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 792: Virus
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > yep, most it people advocate other email programs
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > than ms outlook due to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > ms's low security but
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > high user friendliness programs. at my former
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > company, the mis/it guy told
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > me eudora is better
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > than outlook when it comes to security. however, the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > best bet is to not open
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > attachments unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > you're expecting them, or verify with the sender
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > that they knowingly sent
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > them to you. and of
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > course, don't download anything off the web unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > you know it's secure.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > always keep your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > anti-virus programs current!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > and if you have access to these programs, do a
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > norton cleaning on your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > computer now and install
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > spyware & ad blocker software onto your computer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > these methods are not 100%
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > effective but are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > better than not doing anything.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > or just don't use crap like outlook!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > --- nbv <nickvillarruz@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > As you may know, when/if a worm virus gets into
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > your computer it heads straight for your email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > address book and sends itself to everyone in
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > there,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > thus infecting all your friends and associates.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > This trick won't keep the virus from getting
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > into
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > your computer, but it will stop it from using
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > address book to spread further, and it will
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > alert
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > to the fact that the worm has gotten into your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > system.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Here's what you do:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > First: Open your address book and click on "new
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > contact" or "new person" just as you would do if
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > you were adding a new friend to your list of
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > addresses.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Second: In the window where you would type your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > friend's FIRST name, type in ! 000 (that's an
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > exclamation mark followed by 3 zeros). In the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > window
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > below where it prompts you to enter the new
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > email
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > address,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > type in Worm Alert.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Third: Then complete everything by clicking add,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > enter, OK, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Now, here's what you've done and why it works:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > the "name" !000 will be placed at the top of
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > address book as entry #1. This will be where the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > will start in an effort to send itself to all
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > But when it tries to send itself to !000, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > undeliverable because of the phony email address
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > you entered (Worm Alert). If the first attempt
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > fails
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > (which it will because of the phony address),
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > worm goes no further and your friends will not
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > infected.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Here's the second great advantage of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > method:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > If an email cannot be delivered, you will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > notified
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > of this in your InBox almost immediately.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Hence, if you ever get an email telling you that
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > an
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > email addressed to Worm Alert could not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > delivered, you know right away that you have the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > virus in your system. You can then take steps to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > get
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > rid of it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Pretty slick huh?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > If everybody you know does this, then you
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > needn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > ever worry about opening mail from friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Pass this on to your friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > -------------------<snip>---------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >




                                                                                                                                                                                                      __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11860 From: wantvws Date: 5/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Non-Toxic Plastic Tubs??
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hi...I'm getting ready to clean a pile of rocks, coral, etc for my 210
                                                                                                                                                                                                      gallon tank this weekend, but I'm not sure which plastic tubs are non-
                                                                                                                                                                                                      toxic (as recommended by my book "The New Marine Aquarium"). Maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                                      they all are? I looked at some clear Steralite tubs in Wal-Mart, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                      nowhere on the label did it say non-toxic. What about the Rubbermaid?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Any help is greatly appreciated!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11861 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I se that you have gotten some good answers thus far.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      One needs to remember that we keep fish in a closed environment. We are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      responsible for their well being.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Wild fish live in an open system, and must rely on themselves, along with
                                                                                                                                                                                                      help from "Mother Nature", to survive.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Big difference is the system. In the wild the fish eat what they can, when
                                                                                                                                                                                                      they can. Ammonia is not a concern. Not only are there nitrifying bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                      present in the immediate environs, but the sheer amount of water present,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      with the relative paucity of life, as compared to an aquarium environment,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      also reduces the ammonia level caused by dead and dieing organisms as well
                                                                                                                                                                                                      as that excreted by the fish as a result of their respiration. Also, there
                                                                                                                                                                                                      is water flow that is present, and continuous.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Contrast that to the environment in an aquarium. Most aquaria are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      overstocked, compared to wild environments, by fish and/or plants. There is
                                                                                                                                                                                                      far less water volume per unit of fish/plant in the aquaria. Water movement
                                                                                                                                                                                                      we have. Water changes on a regular basis handle the constant water change
                                                                                                                                                                                                      that wild fish have, but they occur, one would hope, on a regular basis, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      are not constant. We do have the bacteria, and do establish a nitrogen cycle
                                                                                                                                                                                                      in the tanks. Our fish are limited in their movement. If a wild fish is
                                                                                                                                                                                                      uncomfortable with his circumstances, he just swims somewhere else to find
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the right temperature, food supply, etc. Our fish are stuck, totally
                                                                                                                                                                                                      dependent on us to meet their needs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      As mentioned, fish are opportunistic eaters. When there is food, they eat.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sort of like you or me being on the seefood diet <g>. The wild fish may fast
                                                                                                                                                                                                      for days before eating, then it will gorge itself while the food is present.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      The wild fish may eat for days on end, then fast due to a lack of food
                                                                                                                                                                                                      availability. The charges in our tanks generally do not fast. They get
                                                                                                                                                                                                      regular feedings, at least once a day, until we go on vacation or short
                                                                                                                                                                                                      trip. These breaks are actually good for the fish, mimicking the fasting
                                                                                                                                                                                                      they have to do in the wild. Healthy fish can go for more than two weeks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      without food.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      As for your theory that fish gobbling down their food because they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      hungry, starving, even, that is not true. It is every fish to himself come
                                                                                                                                                                                                      feeding time, either in the aquarium or in the wild. The fish that eats
                                                                                                                                                                                                      faster, gets more. The more it gets, the better it can compete because it
                                                                                                                                                                                                      will be larger, stronger, healthier. Your observation is the human view.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      When we see somebody wolfing down his food, obviously he is hungry. Humans
                                                                                                                                                                                                      may eat faster when hungry is the perception.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      You need to feed food that is appropriate to the fish that you have in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      tank. This means that you probably need to feed a variety of food. It also
                                                                                                                                                                                                      means that, of necessity, some food must reach the bottom of the tank to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      feed any bottom feeders you may have. If this does not happen, they do not
                                                                                                                                                                                                      get fed, and may starve to death.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      You also need to know what the fish should look like, so you can tell
                                                                                                                                                                                                      whether the fish is actually starving. For example, a fish with a sunken
                                                                                                                                                                                                      belly may mean it is starving. This was the case, and still is, though not
                                                                                                                                                                                                      as rampant as it once was, when algae eaters, commonly referred to as
                                                                                                                                                                                                      plecos, first were imported. They went weeks without food before ending up
                                                                                                                                                                                                      at a local wholesaler or shop. Bellies would be sunken, and it was sometime
                                                                                                                                                                                                      before it was found how many of them could be saved. Even then, if the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      starvation has gone far enough, the fish will be beyond saving. But, If you
                                                                                                                                                                                                      have a _Badis_ sp., that is the natural look-the sunken belly- and you need
                                                                                                                                                                                                      to look for other signs of starvation, a general thinness of the body.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      What is inhumane is not doing the proper research before keeping fish, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      continuing to research new fish you may be interested in keeping so you know
                                                                                                                                                                                                      whether you can meet their needs. Understanding water quality is one of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      things that people need to understand. It is a very complex subject. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                      water is to fish as the air is to us. Without a decent grasp of what happens
                                                                                                                                                                                                      to water in a closed system with biological activity you will have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                      difficult time maintaining an aquarium. I use a few references that deal
                                                                                                                                                                                                      with nothing but water quality in closed systems, and it is a very difficult
                                                                                                                                                                                                      topic to state simply in a brief e-mail. On the other hand, to successfully
                                                                                                                                                                                                      keep fish, you do not need to know much. The fish grows this big, has this
                                                                                                                                                                                                      diet and likes that kind of water. If you have the water, it is fairly
                                                                                                                                                                                                      simple to keep the fish. It is the keeping of the water that is the hard
                                                                                                                                                                                                      part.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Some one mentioned that a fish's stomach is only as big as its eye. Well,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      yes, and no. The size of the stomach also depends on the diet of the fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Carnivores will have a larger stomach than herbivores. However, herbivores
                                                                                                                                                                                                      have the longer digestive tract to more fully digest the food they eat. You
                                                                                                                                                                                                      could feed your fish all they will eat in, say, two minutes, every hour
                                                                                                                                                                                                      there is light, and the fish will react the same each time. And, they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                      grow fat. You could feed the same two minutes twice a day, and some fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                      will still get fat. Skipping a feeding or two for a day or two will inhibit
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the accumulation of fat, unless you have carnivores housed with small fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                      that may make good lunch meat for them. A healthy fish will suffer no ill
                                                                                                                                                                                                      effects from fasting (other than being eaten by a larger fish <g>).

                                                                                                                                                                                                      So, you need to know your fish and what they require fir sustenance, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      feed accordingly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hope this is not too disjointed, I got interrupted several times during the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      writing, and now have a cat insisting she is starving because she can see
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the bottom of her food bowl through the food in it, and the dogs are now
                                                                                                                                                                                                      happy because they are getting fed, and it is 5 minutes past the time they
                                                                                                                                                                                                      think they should be fed, and Steve has been around most of the day and he
                                                                                                                                                                                                      did not give them ANY treats today (yeah, right). And they will gobble down
                                                                                                                                                                                                      their supper like they have not eaten for the last week.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of Dane & Leslie Moore
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 11:24 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Ethical Question on Feeding


                                                                                                                                                                                                      I keep seeing posts on over feeding linked to ammonia linked to death. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                      main solution to this seems to be to only feed a fish what they will consume
                                                                                                                                                                                                      in a matter of seconds so that no food makes it to the bottom to cause
                                                                                                                                                                                                      problems.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      If fish are gobbling up food within just seconds, this means they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      extremely hungry. Some don't feed for days on end so they will certainly
                                                                                                                                                                                                      eat what little they are given when they finally are fed. So what this
                                                                                                                                                                                                      amounts to is starve your fish so that they will pathetically munch any bit
                                                                                                                                                                                                      of food you throw in the tank within just seconds so that it won't hit the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      bottom and cause ammonia.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      This is nothing like what occurs naturally for these guys nor is it humane.


                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm not posting this to gripe, honestly. I just want to see what others
                                                                                                                                                                                                      have to nicely say about the subject. I am still fairly new to this and am
                                                                                                                                                                                                      thinking it's definitely something I could do without. It honestly breaks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      my heart to think they are all going hungry. Especially the big ones.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks for any considerate feedback.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11862 From: harry perry Date: 5/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding/To Steve Szabo.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Dear Steve,
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thank you soo much for your post. It took a lot of time and thought and I hope our members appreciate it as much as I did.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Harry
                                                                                                                                                                                                      A Moderator


                                                                                                                                                                                                      Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I se that you have gotten some good answers thus far.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      One needs to remember that we keep fish in a closed environment. We are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      responsible for their well being.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Wild fish live in an open system, and must rely on themselves, along with
                                                                                                                                                                                                      help from "Mother Nature", to survive.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Big difference is the system. In the wild the fish eat what they can, when
                                                                                                                                                                                                      they can. Ammonia is not a concern. Not only are there nitrifying bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                      present in the immediate environs, but the sheer amount of water present,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      with the relative paucity of life, as compared to an aquarium environment,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      also reduces the ammonia level caused by dead and dieing organisms as well
                                                                                                                                                                                                      as that excreted by the fish as a result of their respiration. Also, there
                                                                                                                                                                                                      is water flow that is present, and continuous.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Contrast that to the environment in an aquarium. Most aquaria are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      overstocked, compared to wild environments, by fish and/or plants. There is
                                                                                                                                                                                                      far less water volume per unit of fish/plant in the aquaria. Water movement
                                                                                                                                                                                                      we have. Water changes on a regular basis handle the constant water change
                                                                                                                                                                                                      that wild fish have, but they occur, one would hope, on a regular basis, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      are not constant. We do have the bacteria, and do establish a nitrogen cycle
                                                                                                                                                                                                      in the tanks. Our fish are limited in their movement. If a wild fish is
                                                                                                                                                                                                      uncomfortable with his circumstances, he just swims somewhere else to find
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the right temperature, food supply, etc. Our fish are stuck, totally
                                                                                                                                                                                                      dependent on us to meet their needs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      As mentioned, fish are opportunistic eaters. When there is food, they eat.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sort of like you or me being on the seefood diet <g>. The wild fish may fast
                                                                                                                                                                                                      for days before eating, then it will gorge itself while the food is present.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      The wild fish may eat for days on end, then fast due to a lack of food
                                                                                                                                                                                                      availability. The charges in our tanks generally do not fast. They get
                                                                                                                                                                                                      regular feedings, at least once a day, until we go on vacation or short
                                                                                                                                                                                                      trip. These breaks are actually good for the fish, mimicking the fasting
                                                                                                                                                                                                      they have to do in the wild. Healthy fish can go for more than two weeks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      without food.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      As for your theory that fish gobbling down their food because they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      hungry, starving, even, that is not true. It is every fish to himself come
                                                                                                                                                                                                      feeding time, either in the aquarium or in the wild. The fish that eats
                                                                                                                                                                                                      faster, gets more. The more it gets, the better it can compete because it
                                                                                                                                                                                                      will be larger, stronger, healthier. Your observation is the human view.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      When we see somebody wolfing down his food, obviously he is hungry. Humans
                                                                                                                                                                                                      may eat faster when hungry is the perception.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      You need to feed food that is appropriate to the fish that you have in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      tank. This means that you probably need to feed a variety of food. It also
                                                                                                                                                                                                      means that, of necessity, some food must reach the bottom of the tank to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      feed any bottom feeders you may have. If this does not happen, they do not
                                                                                                                                                                                                      get fed, and may starve to death.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      You also need to know what the fish should look like, so you can tell
                                                                                                                                                                                                      whether the fish is actually starving. For example, a fish with a sunken
                                                                                                                                                                                                      belly may mean it is starving. This was the case, and still is, though not
                                                                                                                                                                                                      as rampant as it once was, when algae eaters, commonly referred to as
                                                                                                                                                                                                      plecos, first were imported. They went weeks without food before ending up
                                                                                                                                                                                                      at a local wholesaler or shop. Bellies would be sunken, and it was sometime
                                                                                                                                                                                                      before it was found how many of them could be saved. Even then, if the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      starvation has gone far enough, the fish will be beyond saving. But, If you
                                                                                                                                                                                                      have a _Badis_ sp., that is the natural look-the sunken belly- and you need
                                                                                                                                                                                                      to look for other signs of starvation, a general thinness of the body.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      What is inhumane is not doing the proper research before keeping fish, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      continuing to research new fish you may be interested in keeping so you know
                                                                                                                                                                                                      whether you can meet their needs. Understanding water quality is one of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      things that people need to understand. It is a very complex subject. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                      water is to fish as the air is to us. Without a decent grasp of what happens
                                                                                                                                                                                                      to water in a closed system with biological activity you will have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                      difficult time maintaining an aquarium. I use a few references that deal
                                                                                                                                                                                                      with nothing but water quality in closed systems, and it is a very difficult
                                                                                                                                                                                                      topic to state simply in a brief e-mail. On the other hand, to successfully
                                                                                                                                                                                                      keep fish, you do not need to know much. The fish grows this big, has this
                                                                                                                                                                                                      diet and likes that kind of water. If you have the water, it is fairly
                                                                                                                                                                                                      simple to keep the fish. It is the keeping of the water that is the hard
                                                                                                                                                                                                      part.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Some one mentioned that a fish's stomach is only as big as its eye. Well,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      yes, and no. The size of the stomach also depends on the diet of the fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Carnivores will have a larger stomach than herbivores. However, herbivores
                                                                                                                                                                                                      have the longer digestive tract to more fully digest the food they eat. You
                                                                                                                                                                                                      could feed your fish all they will eat in, say, two minutes, every hour
                                                                                                                                                                                                      there is light, and the fish will react the same each time. And, they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                      grow fat. You could feed the same two minutes twice a day, and some fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                      will still get fat. Skipping a feeding or two for a day or two will inhibit
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the accumulation of fat, unless you have carnivores housed with small fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                      that may make good lunch meat for them. A healthy fish will suffer no ill
                                                                                                                                                                                                      effects from fasting (other than being eaten by a larger fish <g>).

                                                                                                                                                                                                      So, you need to know your fish and what they require fir sustenance, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      feed accordingly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hope this is not too disjointed, I got interrupted several times during the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      writing, and now have a cat insisting she is starving because she can see
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the bottom of her food bowl through the food in it, and the dogs are now
                                                                                                                                                                                                      happy because they are getting fed, and it is 5 minutes past the time they
                                                                                                                                                                                                      think they should be fed, and Steve has been around most of the day and he
                                                                                                                                                                                                      did not give them ANY treats today (yeah, right). And they will gobble down
                                                                                                                                                                                                      their supper like they have not eaten for the last week.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of Dane & Leslie Moore
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 11:24 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Ethical Question on Feeding


                                                                                                                                                                                                      I keep seeing posts on over feeding linked to ammonia linked to death.  The
                                                                                                                                                                                                      main solution to this seems to be to only feed a fish what they will consume
                                                                                                                                                                                                      in a matter of seconds so that no food makes it to the bottom to cause
                                                                                                                                                                                                      problems.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      If fish are gobbling up food within just seconds, this means they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      extremely hungry.  Some don't feed for days on end so they will certainly
                                                                                                                                                                                                      eat what little they are given when they finally are fed.  So what this
                                                                                                                                                                                                      amounts to is starve your fish so that they will pathetically munch any bit
                                                                                                                                                                                                      of food you throw in the tank within just seconds so that it won't hit the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      bottom and cause ammonia. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                      This is nothing like what occurs naturally for these guys nor is it humane.


                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm not posting this to gripe, honestly.  I just want to see what others
                                                                                                                                                                                                      have to nicely say about the subject.  I am still fairly new to this and am
                                                                                                                                                                                                      thinking it's definitely something I could do without.  It honestly breaks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      my  heart to think they are all going hungry.  Especially the big ones.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks for any considerate feedback. 




                                                                                                                                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      .
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


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                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11863 From: harry perry Date: 5/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding/To Steve Szabo.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Dear Steve,
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thank you soo much for your post. It took some time and thought and I hope our members appreciate it as much as I did.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Harry
                                                                                                                                                                                                      A Moderator


                                                                                                                                                                                                      Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I se that you have gotten some good answers thus far.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      One needs to remember that we keep fish in a closed environment. We are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      responsible for their well being.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Wild fish live in an open system, and must rely on themselves, along with
                                                                                                                                                                                                      help from "Mother Nature", to survive.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Big difference is the system. In the wild the fish eat what they can, when
                                                                                                                                                                                                      they can. Ammonia is not a concern. Not only are there nitrifying bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                      present in the immediate environs, but the sheer amount of water present,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      with the relative paucity of life, as compared to an aquarium environment,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      also reduces the ammonia level caused by dead and dieing organisms as well
                                                                                                                                                                                                      as that excreted by the fish as a result of their respiration. Also, there
                                                                                                                                                                                                      is water flow that is present, and continuous.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Contrast that to the environment in an aquarium. Most aquaria are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      overstocked, compared to wild environments, by fish and/or plants. There is
                                                                                                                                                                                                      far less water volume per unit of fish/plant in the aquaria. Water movement
                                                                                                                                                                                                      we have. Water changes on a regular basis handle the constant water change
                                                                                                                                                                                                      that wild fish have, but they occur, one would hope, on a regular basis, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      are not constant. We do have the bacteria, and do establish a nitrogen cycle
                                                                                                                                                                                                      in the tanks. Our fish are limited in their movement. If a wild fish is
                                                                                                                                                                                                      uncomfortable with his circumstances, he just swims somewhere else to find
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the right temperature, food supply, etc. Our fish are stuck, totally
                                                                                                                                                                                                      dependent on us to meet their needs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      As mentioned, fish are opportunistic eaters. When there is food, they eat.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sort of like you or me being on the seefood diet <g>. The wild fish may fast
                                                                                                                                                                                                      for days before eating, then it will gorge itself while the food is present.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      The wild fish may eat for days on end, then fast due to a lack of food
                                                                                                                                                                                                      availability. The charges in our tanks generally do not fast. They get
                                                                                                                                                                                                      regular feedings, at least once a day, until we go on vacation or short
                                                                                                                                                                                                      trip. These breaks are actually good for the fish, mimicking the fasting
                                                                                                                                                                                                      they have to do in the wild. Healthy fish can go for more than two weeks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      without food.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      As for your theory that fish gobbling down their food because they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      hungry, starving, even, that is not true. It is every fish to himself come
                                                                                                                                                                                                      feeding time, either in the aquarium or in the wild. The fish that eats
                                                                                                                                                                                                      faster, gets more. The more it gets, the better it can compete because it
                                                                                                                                                                                                      will be larger, stronger, healthier. Your observation is the human view.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      When we see somebody wolfing down his food, obviously he is hungry. Humans
                                                                                                                                                                                                      may eat faster when hungry is the perception.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      You need to feed food that is appropriate to the fish that you have in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      tank. This means that you probably need to feed a variety of food. It also
                                                                                                                                                                                                      means that, of necessity, some food must reach the bottom of the tank to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      feed any bottom feeders you may have. If this does not happen, they do not
                                                                                                                                                                                                      get fed, and may starve to death.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      You also need to know what the fish should look like, so you can tell
                                                                                                                                                                                                      whether the fish is actually starving. For example, a fish with a sunken
                                                                                                                                                                                                      belly may mean it is starving. This was the case, and still is, though not
                                                                                                                                                                                                      as rampant as it once was, when algae eaters, commonly referred to as
                                                                                                                                                                                                      plecos, first were imported. They went weeks without food before ending up
                                                                                                                                                                                                      at a local wholesaler or shop. Bellies would be sunken, and it was sometime
                                                                                                                                                                                                      before it was found how many of them could be saved. Even then, if the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      starvation has gone far enough, the fish will be beyond saving. But, If you
                                                                                                                                                                                                      have a _Badis_ sp., that is the natural look-the sunken belly- and you need
                                                                                                                                                                                                      to look for other signs of starvation, a general thinness of the body.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      What is inhumane is not doing the proper research before keeping fish, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      continuing to research new fish you may be interested in keeping so you know
                                                                                                                                                                                                      whether you can meet their needs. Understanding water quality is one of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      things that people need to understand. It is a very complex subject. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                      water is to fish as the air is to us. Without a decent grasp of what happens
                                                                                                                                                                                                      to water in a closed system with biological activity you will have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                      difficult time maintaining an aquarium. I use a few references that deal
                                                                                                                                                                                                      with nothing but water quality in closed systems, and it is a very difficult
                                                                                                                                                                                                      topic to state simply in a brief e-mail. On the other hand, to successfully
                                                                                                                                                                                                      keep fish, you do not need to know much. The fish grows this big, has this
                                                                                                                                                                                                      diet and likes that kind of water. If you have the water, it is fairly
                                                                                                                                                                                                      simple to keep the fish. It is the keeping of the water that is the hard
                                                                                                                                                                                                      part.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Some one mentioned that a fish's stomach is only as big as its eye. Well,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      yes, and no. The size of the stomach also depends on the diet of the fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Carnivores will have a larger stomach than herbivores. However, herbivores
                                                                                                                                                                                                      have the longer digestive tract to more fully digest the food they eat. You
                                                                                                                                                                                                      could feed your fish all they will eat in, say, two minutes, every hour
                                                                                                                                                                                                      there is light, and the fish will react the same each time. And, they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                      grow fat. You could feed the same two minutes twice a day, and some fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                      will still get fat. Skipping a feeding or two for a day or two will inhibit
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the accumulation of fat, unless you have carnivores housed with small fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                      that may make good lunch meat for them. A healthy fish will suffer no ill
                                                                                                                                                                                                      effects from fasting (other than being eaten by a larger fish <g>).

                                                                                                                                                                                                      So, you need to know your fish and what they require fir sustenance, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      feed accordingly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hope this is not too disjointed, I got interrupted several times during the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      writing, and now have a cat insisting she is starving because she can see
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the bottom of her food bowl through the food in it, and the dogs are now
                                                                                                                                                                                                      happy because they are getting fed, and it is 5 minutes past the time they
                                                                                                                                                                                                      think they should be fed, and Steve has been around most of the day and he
                                                                                                                                                                                                      did not give them ANY treats today (yeah, right). And they will gobble down
                                                                                                                                                                                                      their supper like they have not eaten for the last week.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of Dane & Leslie Moore
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 11:24 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Ethical Question on Feeding


                                                                                                                                                                                                      I keep seeing posts on over feeding linked to ammonia linked to death.  The
                                                                                                                                                                                                      main solution to this seems to be to only feed a fish what they will consume
                                                                                                                                                                                                      in a matter of seconds so that no food makes it to the bottom to cause
                                                                                                                                                                                                      problems.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      If fish are gobbling up food within just seconds, this means they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      extremely hungry.  Some don't feed for days on end so they will certainly
                                                                                                                                                                                                      eat what little they are given when they finally are fed.  So what this
                                                                                                                                                                                                      amounts to is starve your fish so that they will pathetically munch any bit
                                                                                                                                                                                                      of food you throw in the tank within just seconds so that it won't hit the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      bottom and cause ammonia. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                      This is nothing like what occurs naturally for these guys nor is it humane.


                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm not posting this to gripe, honestly.  I just want to see what others
                                                                                                                                                                                                      have to nicely say about the subject.  I am still fairly new to this and am
                                                                                                                                                                                                      thinking it's definitely something I could do without.  It honestly breaks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      my  heart to think they are all going hungry.  Especially the big ones.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks for any considerate feedback. 




                                                                                                                                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      .
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11864 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/28/2005 2:14:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, steve@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I se that you have gotten some good answers thus far.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      One needs to remember that we keep fish in a closed environment. We are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      responsible for their well being.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Wild fish live in an open system, and must rely on themselves, along with
                                                                                                                                                                                                      help from "Mother Nature", to survive.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Steve,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      That was a Great explanation.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11865 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Non-Toxic Plastic Tubs??
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Rubbermaid is a good choice, and I am sure that there are others as well.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Rubbermaid makes a large number of items used in animal husbandry. You might
                                                                                                                                                                                                      wan to make a list of brands that you see, and then see if you can find a
                                                                                                                                                                                                      website for them to further check them out.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Surprisingly, the site for Rubbermaid is http://www.rubbermaid.com I mean,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      who wudda thunk?

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I did a search on Google for Steralite, and the first hit was for a DIY sump
                                                                                                                                                                                                      project for a marine tank using a Steralite container, so, I would then say
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Steralite is good.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Behalf Of wantvws
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 5:09 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] Non-Toxic Plastic Tubs??

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hi...I'm getting ready to clean a pile of rocks, coral, etc for my 210
                                                                                                                                                                                                      gallon tank this weekend, but I'm not sure which plastic tubs are non-
                                                                                                                                                                                                      toxic (as recommended by my book "The New Marine Aquarium"). Maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                                      they all are? I looked at some clear Steralite tubs in Wal-Mart, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                      nowhere on the label did it say non-toxic. What about the Rubbermaid?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Any help is greatly appreciated!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11866 From: paul helms Date: 5/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Non-Toxic Plastic Tubs??
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the easiest thing to use is rubbermaid garabage cans
                                                                                                                                                                                                      25-33 gallon size4. they run about 8 bucks at any
                                                                                                                                                                                                      hardware store and come with lids
                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- wantvws <rml1963@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Hi...I'm getting ready to clean a pile of rocks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > coral, etc for my 210
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > gallon tank this weekend, but I'm not sure which
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > plastic tubs are non-
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > toxic (as recommended by my book "The New Marine
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Aquarium"). Maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > they all are? I looked at some clear Steralite tubs
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > in Wal-Mart, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > nowhere on the label did it say non-toxic. What
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > about the Rubbermaid?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Any help is greatly appreciated!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >



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                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11867 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Non-Toxic Plastic Tubs??
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have had no problems with any brand of tub as long as its is new or you know what it was used for i.e. nothing toxic was stored in it. I have used sterelite rubbermaid and el cheapo never had a problem. if it can be used for  food storage its cool. garbage cans are another story 
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                                      125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                                      80 gallon south american cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                                      55 gallon african cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                                      50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11868 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 5/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: crashing tanks and worms?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I got some black worms at the LFS the other day and popped some of them into each of my tanks. Following the salesguy's instructions, I changed the worms' water, added some Amquel+ and put the tub of them in the fridge.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I've been putting a small # of them into one 23 flat backed hex w/ ADFs, neons, cories and black phantom tetras each day (really just a small pinch, maybe 6 worms total) Yesterday, after giving all my tanks some worms I realized the worms were dead and the 23 was crashing (very cloudy with 2 dead neons and a dying, now dead, phantom) I've done 2 30% water changes since then; vacuuming the gravel well each time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Is it possible the worms are causing the crash? This tank was completely cycled since January and doing well with 0 Ammonia and Nitrites and low Nitrates. It's also planted and I dosed with Leaf Zone a few days ago.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Should I worry about the other tanks? They all look fine, but I will be testing them all tonight and am fasting the fish until such time. I will also test my tap water as long as I am doing it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Why would the worms all die? My friend, who bought hers at the same time, still has her entire batch.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                       Thoughts?
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Vicky
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Have a healthy older Flatcoat? Share the wealth! ASK ME how to help Dr Ostrander help *more* people have healthy older dogs! Or write: hgparker@... =)

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Suspect a tumor? ='( *PLEASE* contact Dr Breen @ 919-513-1467 _and_ Dr London @ calondon@... 530-754-5711 They NEED your specimens!

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Need to update your AHT info? Please do! Write cathryn.mellersh@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11869 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: OT: Fish Decoys
                                                                                                                                                                                                      OK, this is a bit off topic, well, maybe a lot off topic, but I did pick it
                                                                                                                                                                                                      up on another aquarium list. I'll bet that none of you even know there was
                                                                                                                                                                                                      such a thing as fish decoys, never mind a group dedicated to them! Well,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      here is their site, http://www.nfda.tv/ and they really don't do a good job
                                                                                                                                                                                                      explaining why one needs a fish decoy, but they have some pictures of
                                                                                                                                                                                                      winning entries at their show this year. Quite something.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      But set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11870 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Non-Toxic Plastic Tubs??
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I've used Sterilite totes to keep fish in (my first saltwater tank was a
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sterilite tote). I've kept goldfish in Rubbermaid totes. I use the large
                                                                                                                                                                                                      plastic garbage cans (just make sure there are no holes in the bottom,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      especially if it has wheels!) for mixing saltwater and curing live rock.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I've never had any problems with any of this stuff.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      -T revor

                                                                                                                                                                                                      wantvws wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Hi...I'm getting ready to clean a pile of rocks, coral, etc for my 210
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > gallon tank this weekend, but I'm not sure which plastic tubs are non-
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > toxic (as recommended by my book "The New Marine Aquarium"). Maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > they all are? I looked at some clear Steralite tubs in Wal-Mart, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > nowhere on the label did it say non-toxic. What about the Rubbermaid?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Any help is greatly appreciated!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11871 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 5/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                      There was an interesting article in the June TFH (Tropical Fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hobbyist) about the top 6 or so best ways to kill your fish. One of them
                                                                                                                                                                                                      was "killing them with kindness" - ie: overfeeding. It suggested you
                                                                                                                                                                                                      feed about half the amount you think they should probably have, and then
                                                                                                                                                                                                      if they look good in a few days, you know you're doing it right. It
                                                                                                                                                                                                      compared feeding whenever they beg for food (or just look hungry) to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      going to work and being fed donuts as a morning snack, hamburgers for
                                                                                                                                                                                                      lunch, and then an afternoon snack - repeated daily. We'd be about as
                                                                                                                                                                                                      healthy as fish that are overfed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      - Trevor

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Steve Szabo wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I se that you have gotten some good answers thus far.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > One needs to remember that we keep fish in a closed environment. We are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > responsible for their well being.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Wild fish live in an open system, and must rely on themselves, along with
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > help from "Mother Nature", to survive.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Big difference is the system. In the wild the fish eat what they can, when
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > they can. Ammonia is not a concern. Not only are there nitrifying bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > present in the immediate environs, but the sheer amount of water present,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > with the relative paucity of life, as compared to an aquarium environment,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > also reduces the ammonia level caused by dead and dieing organisms as well
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > as that excreted by the fish as a result of their respiration. Also, there
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > is water flow that is present, and continuous.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Contrast that to the environment in an aquarium. Most aquaria are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > overstocked, compared to wild environments, by fish and/or plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > There is
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > far less water volume per unit of fish/plant in the aquaria. Water
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > movement
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > we have. Water changes on a regular basis handle the constant water change
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > that wild fish have, but they occur, one would hope, on a regular
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > basis, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > are not constant. We do have the bacteria, and do establish a nitrogen
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > cycle
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > in the tanks. Our fish are limited in their movement. If a wild fish is
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > uncomfortable with his circumstances, he just swims somewhere else to find
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the right temperature, food supply, etc. Our fish are stuck, totally
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > dependent on us to meet their needs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > As mentioned, fish are opportunistic eaters. When there is food, they eat.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Sort of like you or me being on the seefood diet <g>. The wild fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > may fast
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > for days before eating, then it will gorge itself while the food is
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > present.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > The wild fish may eat for days on end, then fast due to a lack of food
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > availability. The charges in our tanks generally do not fast. They get
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > regular feedings, at least once a day, until we go on vacation or short
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > trip. These breaks are actually good for the fish, mimicking the fasting
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > they have to do in the wild. Healthy fish can go for more than two weeks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > without food.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > As for your theory that fish gobbling down their food because they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > hungry, starving, even, that is not true. It is every fish to himself come
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > feeding time, either in the aquarium or in the wild. The fish that eats
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > faster, gets more. The more it gets, the better it can compete because it
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > will be larger, stronger, healthier. Your observation is the human view.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > When we see somebody wolfing down his food, obviously he is hungry. Humans
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > may eat faster when hungry is the perception.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > You need to feed food that is appropriate to the fish that you have in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > tank. This means that you probably need to feed a variety of food. It also
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > means that, of necessity, some food must reach the bottom of the tank to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > feed any bottom feeders you may have. If this does not happen, they do not
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > get fed, and may starve to death.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > You also need to know what the fish should look like, so you can tell
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > whether the fish is actually starving. For example, a fish with a sunken
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > belly may mean it is starving. This was the case, and still is, though not
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > as rampant as it once was, when algae eaters, commonly referred to as
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > plecos, first were imported. They went weeks without food before ending up
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > at a local wholesaler or shop. Bellies would be sunken, and it was
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > sometime
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > before it was found how many of them could be saved. Even then, if the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > starvation has gone far enough, the fish will be beyond saving. But,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > If you
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > have a _Badis_ sp., that is the natural look-the sunken belly- and you
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > need
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > to look for other signs of starvation, a general thinness of the body.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > What is inhumane is not doing the proper research before keeping fish, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > continuing to research new fish you may be interested in keeping so
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > you know
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > whether you can meet their needs. Understanding water quality is one
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > things that people need to understand. It is a very complex subject. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > water is to fish as the air is to us. Without a decent grasp of what
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > happens
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > to water in a closed system with biological activity you will have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > difficult time maintaining an aquarium. I use a few references that deal
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > with nothing but water quality in closed systems, and it is a very
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > difficult
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > topic to state simply in a brief e-mail. On the other hand, to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > successfully
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > keep fish, you do not need to know much. The fish grows this big, has this
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > diet and likes that kind of water. If you have the water, it is fairly
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > simple to keep the fish. It is the keeping of the water that is the hard
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > part.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Some one mentioned that a fish's stomach is only as big as its eye. Well,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > yes, and no. The size of the stomach also depends on the diet of the fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Carnivores will have a larger stomach than herbivores. However, herbivores
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > have the longer digestive tract to more fully digest the food they
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > eat. You
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > could feed your fish all they will eat in, say, two minutes, every hour
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > there is light, and the fish will react the same each time. And, they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > grow fat. You could feed the same two minutes twice a day, and some fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > will still get fat. Skipping a feeding or two for a day or two will
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > inhibit
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the accumulation of fat, unless you have carnivores housed with small fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > that may make good lunch meat for them. A healthy fish will suffer no ill
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > effects from fasting (other than being eaten by a larger fish <g>).
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > So, you need to know your fish and what they require fir sustenance, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > feed accordingly.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Hope this is not too disjointed, I got interrupted several times
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > during the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > writing, and now have a cat insisting she is starving because she can see
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the bottom of her food bowl through the food in it, and the dogs are now
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > happy because they are getting fed, and it is 5 minutes past the time they
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > think they should be fed, and Steve has been around most of the day and he
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > did not give them ANY treats today (yeah, right). And they will gobble
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > down
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > their supper like they have not eaten for the last week.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Behalf Of Dane & Leslie Moore
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 11:24 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; naturalaquariumenthusiast@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ethical Question on Feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I keep seeing posts on over feeding linked to ammonia linked to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > death. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > main solution to this seems to be to only feed a fish what they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > consume
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > in a matter of seconds so that no food makes it to the bottom to cause
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > If fish are gobbling up food within just seconds, this means they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > extremely hungry. Some don't feed for days on end so they will certainly
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > eat what little they are given when they finally are fed. So what this
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > amounts to is starve your fish so that they will pathetically munch
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > any bit
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > of food you throw in the tank within just seconds so that it won't hit the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > bottom and cause ammonia.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > This is nothing like what occurs naturally for these guys nor is it
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > humane.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I'm not posting this to gripe, honestly. I just want to see what others
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > have to nicely say about the subject. I am still fairly new to this
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > and am
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > thinking it's definitely something I could do without. It honestly breaks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > my heart to think they are all going hungry. Especially the big ones.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Thanks for any considerate feedback.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11872 From: Evita Date: 5/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: OT: Fish Decoys
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Steve, Thanks for sharing this site.  They were like looking at works of art.  I enjoyed the hand painted ones the most.  I also enjoyed the birds as well.  Beautiful stuff. I paint myself but this was really neat. I might share this link in my art groups as well.  Evita

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      OK, this is a bit off topic, well, maybe a lot off topic, but I did pick it
                                                                                                                                                                                                      up on another aquarium list. I'll bet that none of you even know there was
                                                                                                                                                                                                      such a thing as fish decoys, never mind a group dedicated to them! Well,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      here is their site, http://www.nfda.tv/ and they really don't do a good job
                                                                                                                                                                                                      explaining why one needs a fish decoy, but they have some pictures of
                                                                                                                                                                                                      winning entries at their show this year. Quite something.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      But set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.



                                                                                                                                                                                                      Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      .
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


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                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11873 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Non-Toxic Plastic Tubs??
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hi Robbie,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have also used sterilite tubs.  Two years ago I used four sterilite tubs connected to a wet dry filter I made out of a sterilite container filled with bio balls and filter floss.  It worked great.  Most recently I had a few cichlids with five synodontis catfish living in a tub with a power filter as filtration.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Non-Toxic Plastic Tubs??

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hi...I'm getting ready to clean a pile of rocks, coral, etc for my 210
                                                                                                                                                                                                      gallon tank this weekend, but I'm not sure which plastic tubs are non-
                                                                                                                                                                                                      toxic (as recommended by my book "The New Marine Aquarium"). Maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                                      they all are? I looked at some clear Steralite tubs in Wal-Mart, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                      nowhere on the label did it say non-toxic. What about the Rubbermaid?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Any help is greatly appreciated!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11874 From: paul helms Date: 5/28/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Non-Toxic Plastic Tubs??
                                                                                                                                                                                                      just soi as you are aware, rubbermade garbage cans are
                                                                                                                                                                                                      just as safe as any other plastic container you can
                                                                                                                                                                                                      by. they are used in the restaurant industry for many
                                                                                                                                                                                                      uses and are approved by the state health department.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      most people who clean fish tanks for a living use them
                                                                                                                                                                                                      or similar as well, with a rolling cart underneath.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- kritter714@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I have had no problems with any brand of tub as long
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > as its is new or you
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > know what it was used for i.e. nothing toxic was
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > stored in it. I have used
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > sterelite rubbermaid and el cheapo never had a
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > problem. if it can be used for
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > food storage its cool. garbage cans are another
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > story
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > 125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > 90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > 80 gallon south american cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > 55 gallon african cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > 50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >



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                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11875 From: kritter714@aol.com Date: 5/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Non-Toxic Plastic Tubs??
                                                                                                                                                                                                      But other garbage cans are not I have purchased garbage cans (the rolling kind and not) that said do not store animal feed in them on the label they are apparently impregnated with a chemical that reduces mold and mildew. I would use Rubbermaid just not other brands if I was not sure
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Elaine in the emerald city
                                                                                                                                                                                                      125 gallon marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      90 gallon discus
                                                                                                                                                                                                      80 gallon south american cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                                      55 gallon african cichlid
                                                                                                                                                                                                      50 gallon temperate water tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11876 From: EDITHAN1@AOL.COM Date: 5/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Algae Growth???
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have a 20 gal aquarium that sits close to but not next to a window on the south side of my house.  On the walls of the tank grows in "patches" a hair-like algae.  Does anyone know why, or what causes this? There is also a "slimy" type, but this never reaches a height, just covers the walls of the aquarium.  Then there is like "tumbleweed" type that is stringy when I try to pull it out, that just grows "around" in the tank, fastens itself to whatever is in the tank.  I have bought live plants, oto cats, clown loaches, cory cats, plecosumus, etc. to try to eliminate this growth.   Any suggestions???
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11877 From: paul helms Date: 5/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Algae Growth???
                                                                                                                                                                                                      you are more than likely over feeding, causing the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      slime algae and teh string algae, and a bit of direct
                                                                                                                                                                                                      sunlight is probably the culprit for the patches.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- EDITHAN1@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I have a 20 gal aquarium that sits close to but not
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > next to a window on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > south side of my house. On the walls of the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > grows in "patches" a
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > hair-like algae. Does anyone know why, or what
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > causes this? There is also a "slimy"
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > type, but this never reaches a height, just covers
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the walls of the aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Then there is like "tumbleweed" type that is stringy
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > when I try to pull it
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > out, that just grows "around" in the tank, fastens
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > itself to whatever is in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > tank. I have bought live plants, oto cats, clown
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > loaches, cory cats,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > plecosumus, etc. to try to eliminate this growth.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Any suggestions???
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >



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                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11878 From: daniel_roachus Date: 5/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: kind of dumb question
                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kb1dva" <vze3pd7a@v...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Ps I have I timid 11 inch pacu
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > 3 blood parrots
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > 1 pike cichlid in a 90 gallon tank

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I went to blackpool aquarium last week and they had a tank of pacus -
                                                                                                                                                                                                      they were over 2 feet long..

                                                                                                                                                                                                      sounds like the tank is gonna be well crowded..
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11879 From: wantvws Date: 5/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks to everyone for the advice on the tubs!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      New Question...I just scrubbed my 210 gallon tank (which is at least
                                                                                                                                                                                                      10-12 years old, BTW) with vinegar and water, and the silicone on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      sides looks questionable. I can post pictures of the bad spots, or e-
                                                                                                                                                                                                      mail them to you if you want to see them. I think I need to redo it
                                                                                                                                                                                                      now, because I don't want to have to do it two or three years down the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      road. Is there any particular brand or type of silicone I should use?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Can I get it at Lowes or Home Depot? Do I need to remove as much of
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the old stuff as I can before laying down a bead of new stuff? Any
                                                                                                                                                                                                      advice is greatly appreciated!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11880 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Robbie, If you think your tank needs resealing, at least in spots,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      now's the time to do it while its empty. GE Door and Window clear
                                                                                                                                                                                                      silicone sealant is as good as any and probably better than most. It
                                                                                                                                                                                                      comes in a 10.1 oz. cartridge and can be found at Lowes or Home Depot.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Where it looks like the old sealastic isn't sealing anything, that's
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the stuff you might as well remove to get a better bead in there. Be
                                                                                                                                                                                                      careful not to cut between the glass sections. Mostly, if the old
                                                                                                                                                                                                      sealant still appears fairly fresh, you can caulk over it provided the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      new sealant bead contacts both sides of the corner as the new sealanr
                                                                                                                                                                                                      will bond into the old. The exception being if the old sealant has a
                                                                                                                                                                                                      dull coating of fine sand like particles absorbed into its surface --
                                                                                                                                                                                                      new sealant will not bond as well to this surface. Before applying the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      new sealant, wipe all corners to be sealed with rubbing alchohol or
                                                                                                                                                                                                      acetate to remove any oil film including that from your fingerprints,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      for a good bond. One other thing, wear a pair of cheap latex gloves.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                      \
                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "wantvws" <rml1963@n...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Thanks to everyone for the advice on the tubs!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > New Question...I just scrubbed my 210 gallon tank (which is at least
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > 10-12 years old, BTW) with vinegar and water, and the silicone on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > sides looks questionable. I can post pictures of the bad spots, or e-
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > mail them to you if you want to see them. I think I need to redo it
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > now, because I don't want to have to do it two or three years down
                                                                                                                                                                                                      the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > road. Is there any particular brand or type of silicone I should use?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Can I get it at Lowes or Home Depot? Do I need to remove as much of
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the old stuff as I can before laying down a bead of new stuff? Any
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > advice is greatly appreciated!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11881 From: Jim Date: 5/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Fungus in new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm in the middle of fishless cycling my new aquarium. Nearly
                                                                                                                                                                                                      everything in the tank is new, with the exception of a bio-sponge from
                                                                                                                                                                                                      my bother-in-law.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      The problem I'm having is a fungal-like growth on the rubber suction
                                                                                                                                                                                                      cups attached the the heater and thermometer. The white cottony growth
                                                                                                                                                                                                      drops easily off the rubber when touched. I've cleaned the heater and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      thermometer multiple times, but it returns after just a few days. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                      filter easily cleans up the mess after a couple hours, but I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                      concerned what effect this will have on the fish once added.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      My brother-in-law has never seen this problem in his tank and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      local shop tells me not to worry about it. So I'm looking for a second
                                                                                                                                                                                                      (or more) opinion on this problem. Any feedback would be appreciated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Jim
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11882 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: nicolas
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I had a crayfish, He actually climed out of my fishtank and ran into my
                                                                                                                                                                                                      bedroom cuboard at the other end of the house... unfortunatly he didn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                      survive my wifes shoe.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm not certain but would expect no problems if its anything like my one.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      =Nick

                                                                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: "Cher" <sdkeppler@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 1:59 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [AquaticLife] nicolas


                                                                                                                                                                                                      >I said fish I ment crayfish,I took him out of the tank and put him in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > bucket with an airstone the water is also declorinated ect. My tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > is only a 2gallon I wasn't worried about him starving it was the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > amonia.I'm just going to let the tank cycle and keep changing his water
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > as needed till the tank is ready.Thank you ....Cher
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 11883 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks Patrick,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Will do so from now on. Lots of people here at work are having problems with that virus too, thus far fingers crossed ive avoided it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                        =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 11:47 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A request to the group management

                                                                                                                                                                                                        The files section.  Upload the picture there, tell it to send a notification to the group.  It takes a couple minutes longer.  I see I'm alone on this one, but when people start seeing German messages, don't say I didn't warn you. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Also a happy voice. :-)
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                        By the way, my new quote in my signature was inspired by the German SPAM on another group that was negative literature about Churchill.   It was the end of my membership on that group.
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                                        -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        A lot of people post pictures on here of their sick fish etc...
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                        These pictures are very helpful to identify the problems, this is one benefit of the attachments. How do you propose we facilitate this and disable attachments?
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                        (I'm asking in a happy voice) :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                        =Nick
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,  we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter


                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11884 From: fishyfishy95 Date: 5/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: What fish should I get?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I posted earlier about some trouble I was having with a tank I was
                                                                                                                                                                                                        given.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have worked out the problems, most of which had to do with more
                                                                                                                                                                                                        frequent partial water changes and a good gravel vaccuum.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have lost a few fish in the process unfortunately. I will now be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        waiting a while to add new fish to the tank, just to be sure that
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the numbers will okay.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        It has been a dream of mine to have a tank that has fish in it that
                                                                                                                                                                                                        are "native" to a particular area. Does that make sense? I would
                                                                                                                                                                                                        like to have a tank that has two or three kinds of fish that co-
                                                                                                                                                                                                        exist naturally - is this possible? I'd like to look at my tank and
                                                                                                                                                                                                        see fish that live in a stream (lake, river, etc.) in South America
                                                                                                                                                                                                        (Africa, Australia, etc.) I'm not sure why I exactly feel this way
                                                                                                                                                                                                        about fish, but I do enjoy watching their behaviors and while a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        community tank is certainly fun to watch, there is something neat to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        me about knowing that I have a little part of the world in my house.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Boy, I hope I'm not going of the deep end on this one.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Right now I have three zebra danios, 3 scissor tails, 1 giant danio,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        1 blue groumi, 1 tiger barb, 1 pleco, and 3 rasberry tetras. I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        trying to find information on each of the fish - where they come
                                                                                                                                                                                                        from and what other fish live in the same place with them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Any website recommendations - there are a lot out there!

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Also, this "pet" projet of mine will take a lot of time to complete -
                                                                                                                                                                                                        especially since I have no intention of prematurely removing any
                                                                                                                                                                                                        fish. My ideal number of fish for my 30 gallon tank is between 10-
                                                                                                                                                                                                        15 (depending on final size of fish). I may try to add fish that I
                                                                                                                                                                                                        want over the years as others pass on, but I'm truly in no rush.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        While my family has always had fish, this is my first time on my
                                                                                                                                                                                                        own. This idea of mine - is it a common one, or do people just
                                                                                                                                                                                                        usually have fish they like to look at?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Tami
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11885 From: seleya8@aol.com Date: 5/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: What fish should I get?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/29/2005 7:02:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, aves@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        <<<While my family has always had fish, this is my first time on my
                                                                                                                                                                                                        own.  This idea of mine - is it a common one, or do people just
                                                                                                                                                                                                        usually have fish they like to look at?>>>

                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                        What you're describing is a biotope tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                        <<<Right now I have three zebra danios, 3 scissor tails, 1 giant danio,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        1 blue groumi, 1 tiger barb, 1 pleco, and 3 rasberry tetras.  I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        trying to find information on each of the fish - where they come
                                                                                                                                                                                                        from and what other fish live in the same place with them.>>>
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                        That's a pretty eclectic assortment from more than one continent. For a biotope you will need to decide which biotope you'd like to emulate. You need to decide that before we can really help. =)

                                                                                                                                                                                                        <<<Any website recommendations - there are a lot out there!>>>
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope.htm is a good start. =)
                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Vicky
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11886 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
                                                                                                                                                                                                        You'll need to be sure that the silicone tubes are marked as being safe for
                                                                                                                                                                                                        aquariums. The door and window sealer mentioned in another post will often
                                                                                                                                                                                                        contain mildewcides that are fatal to fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        It's been so long since I repaired a tank, I'd have to look up the solvent
                                                                                                                                                                                                        involved, but, basically, you cut away the area you are replacing, being
                                                                                                                                                                                                        careful not to disturb the seal in the joint. Then you use the solvent to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        clean the area, then apply the silicone. I seem to recall it will need at
                                                                                                                                                                                                        least 24 hours before you can add water, longer to completely cure. Use a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        caulking gun for the silicone tube, and apply the bead in a smooth, even
                                                                                                                                                                                                        stroke, not stopping until you have completed the area to be covered. By the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        time you have finished the job, you should have the hang of it <G>.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of wantvws
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 5:08 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks to everyone for the advice on the tubs!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        New Question...I just scrubbed my 210 gallon tank (which is at least
                                                                                                                                                                                                        10-12 years old, BTW) with vinegar and water, and the silicone on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        sides looks questionable. I can post pictures of the bad spots, or e-
                                                                                                                                                                                                        mail them to you if you want to see them. I think I need to redo it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        now, because I don't want to have to do it two or three years down the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        road. Is there any particular brand or type of silicone I should use?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Can I get it at Lowes or Home Depot? Do I need to remove as much of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the old stuff as I can before laying down a bead of new stuff? Any
                                                                                                                                                                                                        advice is greatly appreciated!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11887 From: wantvws Date: 5/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Ray...thanks for the info. Will there be a problem with the new
                                                                                                                                                                                                        silicone sticking to the old? The bead around the bottom looks
                                                                                                                                                                                                        perfect...it's just the vertical beads that need attention, so I want
                                                                                                                                                                                                        to make sure I can get a good seal in the corners. A friend was
                                                                                                                                                                                                        telling me earlier that getting the new stuff to stick to the old
                                                                                                                                                                                                        stuff may be a problem...I REALLY don't want to redo the entire thing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks so much!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11888 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: What fish should I get?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Tami,

                                                                                                                                                                                                        You are talking about what is known as a biotope tank. I don't know of any
                                                                                                                                                                                                        sites off-hand that cover the subject. The idea is to maintain a tank with
                                                                                                                                                                                                        critters and plants from a certain geographical area.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Of the fish you mention, the danios, rasboras, gourami, all come from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Indian sub continent or SE Asia. The pleco and tetras are South American,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        and, off the top of my head, I don't recall if the barb is African or South
                                                                                                                                                                                                        American. Now, you are not likely to see a raspberry tetra in the wild. That
                                                                                                                                                                                                        is a dyed fish, and will eventually lose its color, should it live long
                                                                                                                                                                                                        enough.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sounds like you need a good book to start here, something like the Baensch
                                                                                                                                                                                                        _Aquarium Atlas_ will help you immensely. Not only will it give geographic
                                                                                                                                                                                                        locations for fish, so you can get closer to the biotope you wish, it will
                                                                                                                                                                                                        give the water parameters, and help you decide if the fish can co-exist in
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the same tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        <aside>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        The web is not the be all and end all that some people would like it to be.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        It can be very difficult to come up with the information contained in a good
                                                                                                                                                                                                        book about the subject you are researching. In many cases, using a book can
                                                                                                                                                                                                        locate the information you need faster than it can be found on the web.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        As a matter of fact, I was talking with Lee Finley earlier today, starting
                                                                                                                                                                                                        on a totally unrelated topic, and we did touch upon this one in passing as
                                                                                                                                                                                                        well particularly as related to research on various topics of interest. One
                                                                                                                                                                                                        of the items we agreed upon was the amount of misinformation on the web.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Another was the difficulty in finding good research papers, many which are
                                                                                                                                                                                                        hidden behind password protected sites that require a fee to enter and see
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the article. Also, there is much good research out there as students publish
                                                                                                                                                                                                        their theses on the web, but they are hard to find, even using specialized
                                                                                                                                                                                                        search engines. We both agreed that while the web was a help, there is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        nothing like the old fashioned ink on paper in many cases. We also both
                                                                                                                                                                                                        agreed to share our access to those "hidden" papers that will help us in our
                                                                                                                                                                                                        research.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Also, not covered in the conversation, but something I think goes without us
                                                                                                                                                                                                        having to say it to each other, is that there is nothing like "button
                                                                                                                                                                                                        holing" an expert and pumping them for information. OK, so how do you find
                                                                                                                                                                                                        such an expert? Well, you need to look for meetings of clubs and societies
                                                                                                                                                                                                        in your area. They bring in experts on specific topics for their meetings.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        The experts at most of these meetings are usually fairly local. Having found
                                                                                                                                                                                                        such a group, you will then start to learn of regional and national
                                                                                                                                                                                                        gatherings of various fish related organizations. These groups can bring in
                                                                                                                                                                                                        experts who may simply not be available to a local group, experts from all
                                                                                                                                                                                                        over the world. Sadly, you'll not find many of the experts active on lists
                                                                                                                                                                                                        such as this, though you may see some on lists that cover much more advanced
                                                                                                                                                                                                        topics or have a restricted membership. In a way, this is unfortunate, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                        it also helps the expert to keep his sanity, by not having to explain things
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ad nauseum, taking up time he would rather use researching or writing in his
                                                                                                                                                                                                        field. Truth be told, I do know people who are very well respected for their
                                                                                                                                                                                                        knowledge who you will never see in any computer forum, simply because they
                                                                                                                                                                                                        are illiterate when it comes to using a computer for the purpose, even while
                                                                                                                                                                                                        they may use one to write on.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Oh well, enough of the rambling, I think you can get the drift here.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        </aside>

                                                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of fishyfishy95
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 7:02 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] What fish should I get?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I posted earlier about some trouble I was having with a tank I was
                                                                                                                                                                                                        given.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have worked out the problems, most of which had to do with more
                                                                                                                                                                                                        frequent partial water changes and a good gravel vaccuum.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have lost a few fish in the process unfortunately. I will now be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        waiting a while to add new fish to the tank, just to be sure that
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the numbers will okay.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        It has been a dream of mine to have a tank that has fish in it that
                                                                                                                                                                                                        are "native" to a particular area. Does that make sense? I would
                                                                                                                                                                                                        like to have a tank that has two or three kinds of fish that co-
                                                                                                                                                                                                        exist naturally - is this possible? I'd like to look at my tank and
                                                                                                                                                                                                        see fish that live in a stream (lake, river, etc.) in South America
                                                                                                                                                                                                        (Africa, Australia, etc.) I'm not sure why I exactly feel this way
                                                                                                                                                                                                        about fish, but I do enjoy watching their behaviors and while a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        community tank is certainly fun to watch, there is something neat to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        me about knowing that I have a little part of the world in my house.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Boy, I hope I'm not going of the deep end on this one.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Right now I have three zebra danios, 3 scissor tails, 1 giant danio,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        1 blue groumi, 1 tiger barb, 1 pleco, and 3 rasberry tetras. I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        trying to find information on each of the fish - where they come
                                                                                                                                                                                                        from and what other fish live in the same place with them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Any website recommendations - there are a lot out there!

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Also, this "pet" projet of mine will take a lot of time to complete -
                                                                                                                                                                                                        especially since I have no intention of prematurely removing any
                                                                                                                                                                                                        fish. My ideal number of fish for my 30 gallon tank is between 10-
                                                                                                                                                                                                        15 (depending on final size of fish). I may try to add fish that I
                                                                                                                                                                                                        want over the years as others pass on, but I'm truly in no rush.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        While my family has always had fish, this is my first time on my
                                                                                                                                                                                                        own. This idea of mine - is it a common one, or do people just
                                                                                                                                                                                                        usually have fish they like to look at?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Tami
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11889 From: gracefullnature Date: 5/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group Settings have temporarily been changed, Email attachments are
                                                                                                                                                                                                        not permitted for the purpose of testing the effectiveness of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        preventing potential viruses from spreading to group members.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        This means pictures in emails will no longer be distributed to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        members
                                                                                                                                                                                                        who have selected Individual Emails.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Those who wish to share pictures with the group can still do so by
                                                                                                                                                                                                        uploading them into the Photos or Files section on the left side of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the Groups Home page.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Items uploaded into the Files section can use the check box at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        bottom to send a email to the group -"Notification
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Send a message to the group announcing this file."

                                                                                                                                                                                                        To let us know about your pictures added, please send a message,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        preferably with a link, letting us know where to look.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thank you.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11890 From: Karen Date: 5/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Hi, new to the group
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm a freshwater african cichlid keeper. I have a 100 gal Malawi Mbuna
                                                                                                                                                                                                        tank and a 55 gal Lake Victorian tank. I've been looking for another
                                                                                                                                                                                                        large tank at least 75, preferabley 90 or 110 gal. I'd like to set-up
                                                                                                                                                                                                        a Hap/Peacock tank. I've been checking the paper daily and have posted
                                                                                                                                                                                                        on some other websites and forums. Hard to find good used tanks and
                                                                                                                                                                                                        stands. Trying to be frugal. If there are any members in the South
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Louisiana/South Mississippi area with ideas, equipment, etc. would
                                                                                                                                                                                                        appreciate the help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11891 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/29/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
                                                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/29/2005 2:08:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        rml1963@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Can I get it at Lowes or Home Depot? Do I need to remove as much of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the old stuff as I can before laying down a bead of new stuff? Any
                                                                                                                                                                                                        advice is greatly appreciated!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Robbie



                                                                                                                                                                                                        Get the clear GE I or GE II, but read ALL the fine print and make sure they
                                                                                                                                                                                                        do have the mildew inhibitors. The mildew inhibitors will be toxic. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                        bathroom and shower silicone is NOT for aquarium use as they have the mildew
                                                                                                                                                                                                        inhibitors. Also make sure you let the tank ventilate at least 24 hours before
                                                                                                                                                                                                        use and give it a rinse before use.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mike


                                                                                                                                                                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11892 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Steve, The GE Door and Window sealer does not contain mildewcides
                                                                                                                                                                                                        (arsenic), or I would not have posted it as a recommendation. I've
                                                                                                                                                                                                        used it myself for eons and have recommended it here and on other
                                                                                                                                                                                                        related forums many times. I just double-checked the name
                                                                                                                                                                                                        (yesterday, I posted it off the top of my head); the full name is GE
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Window & Door - Silicone I, which is the exact same formula as the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        original GE General Household Sealant - Silicone Rubber. When the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        name was changed, I had my supplier contact GE about this and GE
                                                                                                                                                                                                        forwarded this information. This formula, the original designation
                                                                                                                                                                                                        stating its use for food containers and aquariums on the cartridge,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        was bought from GE and first used by many of the original all-glass
                                                                                                                                                                                                        aquarium manufacturers. I understand more recently, that GE W & D
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Silicone II can also safely be used, but I go with what I know
                                                                                                                                                                                                        works. Usually, other similar silicone sealers expressly for use as
                                                                                                                                                                                                        bathtub and tile sealers contain the mildewcides, so you do have to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        be careful with your selection, but the label I mentioned is for use
                                                                                                                                                                                                        with aquariums. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > You'll need to be sure that the silicone tubes are marked as being
                                                                                                                                                                                                        safe for
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > aquariums. The door and window sealer mentioned in another post
                                                                                                                                                                                                        will often
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > contain mildewcides that are fatal to fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > It's been so long since I repaired a tank, I'd have to look up the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        solvent
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > involved, but, basically, you cut away the area you are replacing,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        being
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > careful not to disturb the seal in the joint. Then you use the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        solvent to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > clean the area, then apply the silicone. I seem to recall it will
                                                                                                                                                                                                        need at
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > least 24 hours before you can add water, longer to completely cure.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Use a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > caulking gun for the silicone tube, and apply the bead in a smooth,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        even
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > stroke, not stopping until you have completed the area to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        covered. By the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > time you have finished the job, you should have the hang of it <G>.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of wantvws
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 5:08 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: [AquaticLife] Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Thanks to everyone for the advice on the tubs!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > New Question...I just scrubbed my 210 gallon tank (which is at
                                                                                                                                                                                                        least
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > 10-12 years old, BTW) with vinegar and water, and the silicone on
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > sides looks questionable. I can post pictures of the bad spots, or
                                                                                                                                                                                                        e-
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > mail them to you if you want to see them. I think I need to redo it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > now, because I don't want to have to do it two or three years down
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > road. Is there any particular brand or type of silicone I should
                                                                                                                                                                                                        use?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Can I get it at Lowes or Home Depot? Do I need to remove as much of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the old stuff as I can before laying down a bead of new stuff? Any
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > advice is greatly appreciated!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11893 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Robbie, Concerning your latest question, please reread my last reply.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        If the bead around the bottom looks fairly fresh (shiney) it will allow
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the new stuff to bond with it. If it has a dull appearance like the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        surface has taken on a coating of ultra-fine sand particles, it will
                                                                                                                                                                                                        not bond well with the new stuff. Whether the bottom looks like it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        needs resealing or not, I would recommend putting a new bead of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        silicone around the bottom as well. This is your chance to ensure you
                                                                                                                                                                                                        have a nicely sealed tank -- the sealant is cheap enough. You don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                        have to disturb the old bead, unless it looks dull, so you can seal
                                                                                                                                                                                                        right over it, going a bit wider, reaching both glass panels (bottom
                                                                                                                                                                                                        and side/end). Again, just make sure you clean up the glass and old
                                                                                                                                                                                                        sealer with rubbing alchohol or acetone, letting it dry before using
                                                                                                                                                                                                        you new sealer. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                        \ --
                                                                                                                                                                                                        - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "wantvws" <rml1963@n...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Ray...thanks for the info. Will there be a problem with the new
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > silicone sticking to the old? The bead around the bottom looks
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > perfect...it's just the vertical beads that need attention, so I want
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > to make sure I can get a good seal in the corners. A friend was
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > telling me earlier that getting the new stuff to stick to the old
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > stuff may be a problem...I REALLY don't want to redo the entire thing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Thanks so much!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11894 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
                                                                                                                                                                                                        But, I go to the store, and all I remember is window and door sealer
                                                                                                                                                                                                        silicone, another brand may not be so kind to the biological components of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the tank. One should always check to ensure it is safe for aquarium use.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Also, it is not unknown for formulations of products to change with no
                                                                                                                                                                                                        warning to the consumer, so using what you have used for years may suddenly
                                                                                                                                                                                                        turn against you, if you are not vigilant.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 7:18 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Steve, The GE Door and Window sealer does not contain mildewcides
                                                                                                                                                                                                        (arsenic), or I would not have posted it as a recommendation. I've
                                                                                                                                                                                                        used it myself for eons and have recommended it here and on other
                                                                                                                                                                                                        related forums many times. I just double-checked the name
                                                                                                                                                                                                        (yesterday, I posted it off the top of my head); the full name is GE
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Window & Door - Silicone I, which is the exact same formula as the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        original GE General Household Sealant - Silicone Rubber. When the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        name was changed, I had my supplier contact GE about this and GE
                                                                                                                                                                                                        forwarded this information. This formula, the original designation
                                                                                                                                                                                                        stating its use for food containers and aquariums on the cartridge,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        was bought from GE and first used by many of the original all-glass
                                                                                                                                                                                                        aquarium manufacturers. I understand more recently, that GE W & D
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Silicone II can also safely be used, but I go with what I know
                                                                                                                                                                                                        works. Usually, other similar silicone sealers expressly for use as
                                                                                                                                                                                                        bathtub and tile sealers contain the mildewcides, so you do have to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        be careful with your selection, but the label I mentioned is for use
                                                                                                                                                                                                        with aquariums. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > You'll need to be sure that the silicone tubes are marked as being
                                                                                                                                                                                                        safe for
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > aquariums. The door and window sealer mentioned in another post
                                                                                                                                                                                                        will often
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > contain mildewcides that are fatal to fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > It's been so long since I repaired a tank, I'd have to look up the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        solvent
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > involved, but, basically, you cut away the area you are replacing,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        being
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > careful not to disturb the seal in the joint. Then you use the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        solvent to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > clean the area, then apply the silicone. I seem to recall it will
                                                                                                                                                                                                        need at
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > least 24 hours before you can add water, longer to completely cure.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Use a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > caulking gun for the silicone tube, and apply the bead in a smooth,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        even
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > stroke, not stopping until you have completed the area to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        covered. By the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > time you have finished the job, you should have the hang of it <G>.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of wantvws
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 5:08 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: [AquaticLife] Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Thanks to everyone for the advice on the tubs!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > New Question...I just scrubbed my 210 gallon tank (which is at
                                                                                                                                                                                                        least
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > 10-12 years old, BTW) with vinegar and water, and the silicone on
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > sides looks questionable. I can post pictures of the bad spots, or
                                                                                                                                                                                                        e-
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > mail them to you if you want to see them. I think I need to redo it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > now, because I don't want to have to do it two or three years down
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > road. Is there any particular brand or type of silicone I should
                                                                                                                                                                                                        use?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Can I get it at Lowes or Home Depot? Do I need to remove as much of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the old stuff as I can before laying down a bead of new stuff? Any
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > advice is greatly appreciated!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11895 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
                                                                                                                                                                                                        This is why I specifically spelled out the exact name of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        product. No other manufacturer is allowed to use this wording as
                                                                                                                                                                                                        their product name. Further, to make sure its GE, one just has to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        look for that in the unmistakeable form of the General Electric
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ("GE" - script) logo at the top of the cartridge. This same formula
                                                                                                                                                                                                        is still being used by most aquarium manufacturers, being bought
                                                                                                                                                                                                        directly from GE. As these manufacturers are obviously buying in
                                                                                                                                                                                                        bulk, some have chosen to rename the product and repackage it under
                                                                                                                                                                                                        their own name as "for aquarium use", but its still the same stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                                        and I doubt whether GE would change it, having such a good market for
                                                                                                                                                                                                        it as the aquarium manufacturers. Dow-Corning used to make a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        silicone sealer for over the counter use in the aquarium trade for
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the individual. They may very well still do, but I'm not sure.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Never hurts to be too careful though about buying a fish-safe
                                                                                                                                                                                                        product. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > But, I go to the store, and all I remember is window and door sealer
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > silicone, another brand may not be so kind to the biological
                                                                                                                                                                                                        components of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the tank. One should always check to ensure it is safe for aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                        use.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Also, it is not unknown for formulations of products to change with
                                                                                                                                                                                                        no
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > warning to the consumer, so using what you have used for years may
                                                                                                                                                                                                        suddenly
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > turn against you, if you are not vigilant.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 7:18 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Steve, The GE Door and Window sealer does not contain mildewcides
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > (arsenic), or I would not have posted it as a recommendation. I've
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > used it myself for eons and have recommended it here and on other
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > related forums many times. I just double-checked the name
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > (yesterday, I posted it off the top of my head); the full name is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        GE
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Window & Door - Silicone I, which is the exact same formula as the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > original GE General Household Sealant - Silicone Rubber. When the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > name was changed, I had my supplier contact GE about this and GE
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > forwarded this information. This formula, the original designation
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > stating its use for food containers and aquariums on the cartridge,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > was bought from GE and first used by many of the original all-glass
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > aquarium manufacturers. I understand more recently, that GE W & D
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Silicone II can also safely be used, but I go with what I know
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > works. Usually, other similar silicone sealers expressly for use
                                                                                                                                                                                                        as
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > bathtub and tile sealers contain the mildewcides, so you do have to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > be careful with your selection, but the label I mentioned is for
                                                                                                                                                                                                        use
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > with aquariums.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        \
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@f...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > You'll need to be sure that the silicone tubes are marked as
                                                                                                                                                                                                        being
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > safe for
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > aquariums. The door and window sealer mentioned in another post
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > will often
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > contain mildewcides that are fatal to fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > It's been so long since I repaired a tank, I'd have to look up
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > solvent
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > involved, but, basically, you cut away the area you are
                                                                                                                                                                                                        replacing,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > being
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > careful not to disturb the seal in the joint. Then you use the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > solvent to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > clean the area, then apply the silicone. I seem to recall it will
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > need at
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > least 24 hours before you can add water, longer to completely
                                                                                                                                                                                                        cure.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Use a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > caulking gun for the silicone tube, and apply the bead in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        smooth,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > even
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > stroke, not stopping until you have completed the area to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > covered. By the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > time you have finished the job, you should have the hang of it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        <G>.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Behalf Of wantvws
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 5:08 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Thanks to everyone for the advice on the tubs!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > New Question...I just scrubbed my 210 gallon tank (which is at
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > least
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > 10-12 years old, BTW) with vinegar and water, and the silicone on
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > sides looks questionable. I can post pictures of the bad spots,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        or
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > e-
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > mail them to you if you want to see them. I think I need to redo
                                                                                                                                                                                                        it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > now, because I don't want to have to do it two or three years
                                                                                                                                                                                                        down
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > road. Is there any particular brand or type of silicone I should
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > use?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Can I get it at Lowes or Home Depot? Do I need to remove as much
                                                                                                                                                                                                        of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > the old stuff as I can before laying down a bead of new stuff?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Any
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > advice is greatly appreciated!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11896 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mike, Excellent advice -- I thought GE II was safe as well. Just
                                                                                                                                                                                                        wanted to clarify a most significant point, which had to be an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        oversight on your part when you were typing. Your recommendation
                                                                                                                                                                                                        should read . . . "but read ALL the fine print and make sure they DO
                                                                                                                                                                                                        NOT have the mildew inhibitors. Please do not think I'm trying to nit-
                                                                                                                                                                                                        pick -- I see you do go on to state the mildew inhibitors are toxic --
                                                                                                                                                                                                        but this is one thing that should be made completely clear. Speaking
                                                                                                                                                                                                        about ventilation (glad you brought that up), these repairs quickly
                                                                                                                                                                                                        build up fumes within the confines of the tank to the extent that you
                                                                                                                                                                                                        can't breath if you get too close. Its best done outdoors and even
                                                                                                                                                                                                        then, you may have to hold you breath as you lay the beads, breathing
                                                                                                                                                                                                        only between bead-laying. It can get bad with deep tanks as you really
                                                                                                                                                                                                        have to "get in there", sometimes with burning eyes. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                        \ --
                                                                                                                                                                                                        - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >

                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Get the clear GE I or GE II, but read ALL the fine print and make
                                                                                                                                                                                                        sure they
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > do have the mildew inhibitors. The mildew inhibitors will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        toxic. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > bathroom and shower silicone is NOT for aquarium use as they have
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the mildew
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > inhibitors. Also make sure you let the tank ventilate at least 24
                                                                                                                                                                                                        hours before
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > use and give it a rinse before use.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11897 From: wantvws Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks so much....I'll let you know how it goes.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11898 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Using Peat in a Filter - Question
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Laura,

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sorry to take so long to get back to you. I was looking for a specific
                                                                                                                                                                                                        reference I know I have here somewhere, but I'll be doggone if I know where
                                                                                                                                                                                                        it went to. Of course, now that I am writing this, it will probably pop up
                                                                                                                                                                                                        later today <g>.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Peat does a few things with water chemistry. One is to soften the water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        This is done by ion exchange, much like water softeners perform, however,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        there is no way I know to recharge peat. Once it has lost its capacity, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        is done.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Another thing that happens when you use peat, is that the pH is lowered.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        This is mainly accomplished by the release of tannic acid from the peat into
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the water. The drawback to this is that the water may become discolored by
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the tannic acid. Sometimes it is not noticeable until you compare it to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        water that has not been treated, and then the treated water will have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        yellowish cast to it. Sometimes it is very noticeable in that the water will
                                                                                                                                                                                                        start turning brown. Neither of these conditions will harm your fish, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                        many people consider such water to be unsightly, and want clear water in
                                                                                                                                                                                                        their tanks. This condition can be resolved by using activated carbon in
                                                                                                                                                                                                        your filtration.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        As with other forms of pH lowering, you do need to keep an eye on the pH, as
                                                                                                                                                                                                        it can still crash if the natural buffer is broken. The advantage to peat
                                                                                                                                                                                                        over other methods is that the change is gradual rather than nearly
                                                                                                                                                                                                        instantaneous. It may take a while to get to the pH range you wish using
                                                                                                                                                                                                        peat.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        There are products on the market, often with "Black Water" in the name, that
                                                                                                                                                                                                        will hasten the change, and you may wish to consider their use when a rapid
                                                                                                                                                                                                        change is required, but peat would be preferred for the softening capacity
                                                                                                                                                                                                        as well. With the use of peat, you probably would want to have a reservoir
                                                                                                                                                                                                        of water put aside that is being filtered through peat, to be used for water
                                                                                                                                                                                                        changes, so that you would be using water of similar chemistry to replace
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the removed water.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        For links, most of which are not helpful in explaining the use of peat in
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the aquarium, use Http://www.scirus.com and use search terms that include
                                                                                                                                                                                                        "peat", "water", "aquarium", etc. This site needs the Boolean qualifiers
                                                                                                                                                                                                        entered along with your search terms, so you might wish to bone up on your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Boolean logic prior to using it <g>.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: Laura F. Garcia [mailto:lfigarcia@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 1:58 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Using Peat in a Filter - Question


                                                                                                                                                                                                        Steve,

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate the information. If it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        is not TOO much trouble for you
                                                                                                                                                                                                        to send me more information or links to further info, I would be most
                                                                                                                                                                                                        grateful.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Your preference for keeping fish that do well in the water you have is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        undoubtedly a wise idea. I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                        a "thing" for Cardinals, however. I believe the ones I plan to get are
                                                                                                                                                                                                        farm raised, rather than wild,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        so hopefully they will be a bit more tolerant of local water chemistry
                                                                                                                                                                                                        (well water, hard, somewhat high
                                                                                                                                                                                                        pH). Eventually I was hoping to get some wild ones, though. We'll see
                                                                                                                                                                                                        how it goes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have learned not to mess with so-called "proper pH"-type additives; I
                                                                                                                                                                                                        have killed fish using one to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        lower my water's pH, even though I followed the directions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks again for your help. I at least now know why the pH went back
                                                                                                                                                                                                        up! I will monitor it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        closely over the next week or two. It will be a couple of weeks before
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I get the tetras. (Maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I should've gone with Congos.) BTW, I have a Pinpoint pH monitor. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                        rely on it more than
                                                                                                                                                                                                        on my test kit, which I find difficult to interpret.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Cheers,

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Laura Garcia

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Steve wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Laura,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Changing water chemistry is not as easy as it is always made out to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > be. When
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > it comes to pH, it can be very tricky indeed. In a simplistic take, all
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > water has a natural buffing capacity. This helps maintain the pH of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > water. When you try to decrease the pH, you need to overcome this buffer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > This can be done successfully, but it can also lead to disastrous results.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > If the buffer is broken, your pH can plummet, probably to a level far
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > lower
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > than you wish for your fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Using peat is a good method for trying to lower pH. It also adds
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tannins to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the water which can help with certain species of fish. However, when
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > you are
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > using peat, do not expect to see immediate results. It can take days
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > water to drop in pH as your test had initially indicated after you had
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > added
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the peat. Depending on your brand of test kit, and other water additives,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > and your measuring methods, readings given may be variable.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Peat is often used to soften hard water, and the lowering of the pH is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > just
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > a bonus. While it is not often seen, hard water can have a low pH and soft
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > water can have a high pH. Water hardness does not move hand in hand
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > with pH.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > This all is just off the top of my head. if you wish a fuller
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > explanation, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > can probably pull together my references to give you something in more
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > detail as to how this all works. I am pretty much a believer in
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > keeping fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > that will do well in the water you have rather than having to create water
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > conditions the fish will like.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11901 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Non-Toxic tubs and new silicone
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Oh Damn,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thank you for catching that. My apologies for typing that responses last
                                                                                                                                                                                                        night, that could have been disasterous. I was up really late and typed that up
                                                                                                                                                                                                        and even proof read it and did not catch it. Now I know not to respond when
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I wake up and when it is late at night.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thank you for catching that and correcting it!

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mike


                                                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/30/2005 5:35:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        sevenspringss@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mike, Excellent advice -- I thought GE II was safe as well. Just
                                                                                                                                                                                                        wanted to clarify a most significant point, which had to be an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        oversight on your part when you were typing. Your recommendation
                                                                                                                                                                                                        should read . . . "but read ALL the fine print and make sure they DO
                                                                                                                                                                                                        NOT have the mildew inhibitors. Please do not think I'm trying to nit-
                                                                                                                                                                                                        pick -- I see you do go on to state the mildew inhibitors are toxic --
                                                                                                                                                                                                        but this is one thing that should be made completely clear.





                                                                                                                                                                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11902 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/30/2005 8:20:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        wtfmorlok@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        that is such crap



                                                                                                                                                                                                        Come on man, tell us how you really feel ;)


                                                                                                                                                                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11903 From: Tim Fairchild Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                        On Tuesday 31 May 2005 03:09, TankGurl wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > On 5/30/05, paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > that is such crap
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > So are comments like this, IMO.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        True, but I also feel it's a pointless exersize to stop attachments for this
                                                                                                                                                                                                        reason. There are exploits for MS software and OS's on the net and it's up to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the individual to protect their own PC. Changing the group settings will not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        save them in the long run, and may just give a false sence of security...

                                                                                                                                                                                                        It is better for MS users to either get all the protection software they need
                                                                                                                                                                                                        or move over to linux or a Mac...

                                                                                                                                                                                                        tim

                                                                                                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Tim & Therese Fairchild
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Atchafalaya Border Collies.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Email mailto:tim@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Homepage http://www.bcs4me.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Photos http://www.pbase.com/amosf
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11904 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                        FWIW, most lists to which I belong do not allow attachments. The original
                                                                                                                                                                                                        reason was not to burden those with a dial-up connection to receive the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        attachments, and when various virus became rampant several years ago to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        prevent the spread of them through mailing lists.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Fine, you can be protected up to the hilt, but that new virus that was just
                                                                                                                                                                                                        released to the wild 30 minutes ago has gotten at least that much head start
                                                                                                                                                                                                        on the protection for it. Now, before you say that most of the attachments
                                                                                                                                                                                                        are .JPG files, there is a proof of concept out using .JPG files as the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        carrier. It is only a matter of time before someone puts in the effort to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        write such a virus and then it is a short step to put together a kit so even
                                                                                                                                                                                                        script kiddies can do it if they want.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        There is a list I belong to that has an adjunct list just for sending
                                                                                                                                                                                                        photos. There is a disclaimer, when you join that adjunct list that the user
                                                                                                                                                                                                        should beware, just because of the possibility of an infected file being
                                                                                                                                                                                                        posted.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        There is a limited amount of space provided to this list, and all Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Based lists to upload files. If there is someone here on the list with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        site and space on the site, they could set up a web interface or an FTP site
                                                                                                                                                                                                        for the photos that people wish to have other members see.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        The powers that be saw fit to change the forum members' privileges to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        disallow attachments. So be it. Should one disagree with that stand, one is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        free to voice their displeasure by contacting the owner of the list at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        e-mail address given on the home page of the group:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com. They are also free to unsubscribe from
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the list to find one that is more to their liking
                                                                                                                                                                                                        (AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com). If one feels that they must use
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the list to express their displeasure, they should do it in a cogent, if
                                                                                                                                                                                                        passionate, manner, just as they should if writing the list owner.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of Tim Fairchild
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 4:44 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: A request to the group management

                                                                                                                                                                                                        On Tuesday 31 May 2005 03:09, TankGurl wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > On 5/30/05, paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > that is such crap
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > So are comments like this, IMO.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        True, but I also feel it's a pointless exersize to stop attachments for this

                                                                                                                                                                                                        reason. There are exploits for MS software and OS's on the net and it's up
                                                                                                                                                                                                        to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the individual to protect their own PC. Changing the group settings will not

                                                                                                                                                                                                        save them in the long run, and may just give a false sence of security...

                                                                                                                                                                                                        It is better for MS users to either get all the protection software they
                                                                                                                                                                                                        need
                                                                                                                                                                                                        or move over to linux or a Mac...

                                                                                                                                                                                                        tim

                                                                                                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Tim & Therese Fairchild
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Atchafalaya Border Collies.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Email mailto:tim@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Homepage http://www.bcs4me.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Photos http://www.pbase.com/amosf
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11905 From: everquestdragon Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Fluorescent Light
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Today I set up a new 10 gallon tank. And I got fluorscent light I
                                                                                                                                                                                                        notice a faint smell. Is this something to be alarmed about or is it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        just because its a new light ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11906 From: Tim Fairchild Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                        On Tuesday 31 May 2005 07:33, Steve Szabo wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > FWIW, most lists to which I belong do not allow attachments. The original
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > reason was not to burden those with a dial-up connection to receive the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > attachments, and when various virus became rampant several years ago to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > prevent the spread of them through mailing lists.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I still run attachments on my lists as dialup is less of an issue these days
                                                                                                                                                                                                        (and I'm still on dialup anyway). In any case, Malware comes from all sources
                                                                                                                                                                                                        and it's a shame that insecure and badly written software dictates what we
                                                                                                                                                                                                        can and can't do on the net - especially when it reduces the experience of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        people who have protected themselves fairly well and are on top of things.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Fine, you can be protected up to the hilt, but that new virus that was just
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > released to the wild 30 minutes ago has gotten at least that much head
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > start on the protection for it. Now, before you say that most of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > attachments are .JPG files, there is a proof of concept out using .JPG
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > files as the carrier. It is only a matter of time before someone puts in
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the effort to write such a virus and then it is a short step to put
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > together a kit so even script kiddies can do it if they want.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Again, MS have made such things possible so that even jpg's might be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        dangerous, which is a sad state of affairs. A jpg will never be a threat to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the software I run. There are safer alternatives and ways to protect
                                                                                                                                                                                                        yourself. People shouldn't suddenly feel safe just because attachments have
                                                                                                                                                                                                        been switched off...

                                                                                                                                                                                                        > There is a list I belong to that has an adjunct list just for sending
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > photos. There is a disclaimer, when you join that adjunct list that the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > user should beware, just because of the possibility of an infected file
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > being posted.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Well, that's an idea, but in reality people need to be aware that their PC is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        at risk as soon as they connect to the internet, regardless of what they do
                                                                                                                                                                                                        with it or where they go.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        > There is a limited amount of space provided to this list, and all Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Based lists to upload files. If there is someone here on the list with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > site and space on the site, they could set up a web interface or an FTP
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > site for the photos that people wish to have other members see.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yahoo no longer stores attachments in the archives AFAIK, so it's not an issue
                                                                                                                                                                                                        any more.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        > The powers that be saw fit to change the forum members' privileges to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > disallow attachments. So be it. Should one disagree with that stand, one is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > free to voice their displeasure by contacting the owner of the list at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > e-mail address given on the home page of the group:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com. They are also free to unsubscribe from
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the list to find one that is more to their liking
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > (AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com). If one feels that they must use
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the list to express their displeasure, they should do it in a cogent, if
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > passionate, manner, just as they should if writing the list owner.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        True. Abuse is not the way to do it. Calm, reasonable arguments should be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        fine :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                        tim


                                                                                                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Tim & Therese Fairchild
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Atchafalaya Border Collies.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Email mailto:tim@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Homepage http://www.bcs4me.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Photos http://www.pbase.com/amosf
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11907 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light
                                                                                                                                                                                                        None of mine ever smelt.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        =Nick


                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: "everquestdragon" <everquestdragon@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 7:22 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Fluorescent Light


                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Today I set up a new 10 gallon tank. And I got fluorscent light I
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > notice a faint smell. Is this something to be alarmed about or is it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > just because its a new light ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11908 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Ive got a spare 35GB of space on my server but its only got a 12.5KB upload
                                                                                                                                                                                                        speed to the internet...

                                                                                                                                                                                                        =Nick


                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 7:33 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: A request to the group management


                                                                                                                                                                                                        > FWIW, most lists to which I belong do not allow attachments. The original
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > reason was not to burden those with a dial-up connection to receive the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > attachments, and when various virus became rampant several years ago to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > prevent the spread of them through mailing lists.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Fine, you can be protected up to the hilt, but that new virus that was
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > just
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > released to the wild 30 minutes ago has gotten at least that much head
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > start
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > on the protection for it. Now, before you say that most of the attachments
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > are .JPG files, there is a proof of concept out using .JPG files as the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > carrier. It is only a matter of time before someone puts in the effort to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > write such a virus and then it is a short step to put together a kit so
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > even
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > script kiddies can do it if they want.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > There is a list I belong to that has an adjunct list just for sending
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > photos. There is a disclaimer, when you join that adjunct list that the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > user
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > should beware, just because of the possibility of an infected file being
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > posted.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > There is a limited amount of space provided to this list, and all Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Based lists to upload files. If there is someone here on the list with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > site and space on the site, they could set up a web interface or an FTP
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > site
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > for the photos that people wish to have other members see.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > The powers that be saw fit to change the forum members' privileges to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > disallow attachments. So be it. Should one disagree with that stand, one
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > free to voice their displeasure by contacting the owner of the list at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > e-mail address given on the home page of the group:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com. They are also free to unsubscribe from
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the list to find one that is more to their liking
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > (AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com). If one feels that they must
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > use
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the list to express their displeasure, they should do it in a cogent, if
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > passionate, manner, just as they should if writing the list owner.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of Tim Fairchild
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 4:44 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > On Tuesday 31 May 2005 03:09, TankGurl wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> On 5/30/05, paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > that is such crap
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> So are comments like this, IMO.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > True, but I also feel it's a pointless exersize to stop attachments for
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > this
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > reason. There are exploits for MS software and OS's on the net and it's up
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the individual to protect their own PC. Changing the group settings will
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > save them in the long run, and may just give a false sence of security...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > It is better for MS users to either get all the protection software they
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > need
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > or move over to linux or a Mac...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tim
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > --
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ---------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Tim & Therese Fairchild
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Atchafalaya Border Collies.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ---------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Email mailto:tim@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Homepage http://www.bcs4me.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Photos http://www.pbase.com/amosf
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ---------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11909 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Na i think its crap too...


                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: "TankGurl" <fishgoddess@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 3:09 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: A request to the group management


                                                                                                                                                                                                        > On 5/30/05, paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> that is such crap
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > So are comments like this, IMO.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > 65g Malawi
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?fish_gurl
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=7176
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > 135g Frontosa/Tang
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=8011
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11910 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                        How about adding some competition for the food, ie some bottom feeders. They
                                                                                                                                                                                                        can then eat the leftover food.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        The cray won't starve cause ya probably feed him each day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        =nick

                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: "knelson1701" <knelson1701@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 12:53 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Keith


                                                                                                                                                                                                        >i don't have experience with crayfish. but as long as u keep the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ammonia in safe levels you should be ok, till the tank cycles. as for
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the food on the bottom, get a gravel siphon and clean the bottom on a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > regular basis, this will get rid of the excess food and help with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ammonia levels. hope that helps
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Cher" <sdkeppler@n...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Your talking fish,so what size is a crayfish stomach? Also your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > talking
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> a cycled tank.From my observations my crayfish chops it all up then
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> eats there is food all over the place on the bottom because of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> then he feeds and dosen't always eat it all right away like a fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> does. The particals are so small how the heck do you remove this
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > before
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> it creates a huge problem? Thank you .....Cher
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11911 From: Nick Villarruz Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Fwd: Re: Organic Water Solutions
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Are these chemicals or live beneficial bacterias ?


                                                                                                                                                                                                        At 11:46 PM 5/29/05, you wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 22:45:28 -0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > From: "Marius E. Gaybba" <sawatergeni@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Subject: Organic Water Solutions
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >ORGANIC WATER SOLUTIONS RESEARCHED AND DESIGNED WAYS TO ORGANICALLY
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >HEAL AND RESTORE POLLUTED AND INFESTED WATER.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >We manufacture different concentrates of different plant materials
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >to suit, treat and heal different situations. Currently we are
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >healing and controlling water in the following areas with remarkable
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >success:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Aqua Culture
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Working on various projects with Stellenbosch University, also trout
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >farms and ornamental fish. Focussing on creating and maintaining a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >well balanced natural water ecology. We have treatments on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >market called ORGANIC AQUARIUMS, designed to create a natural, well
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >balanced ecology in aquariums, marine aquariums and ponds. These
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >treatments maintains a clean tank or pond, controls algae, releases
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >80% more oxygen into the water and allows one to experience fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >keeping as an easy going hobby, seeing that it is no longer
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >necessary to do regular water changes or tank clean outs. It is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >healthy for the fish and is a good preventative for the outbreak and
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >spreading of diseases.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Agri Culture
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >We have treatments on the market called BIO CLEAN
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >This application treats the dams of export farmers, wine farmers and
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >feed lots with remarkable results. Treating the water mainly for
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >algae, blue green algae, high E-coli counts and Sulphur production.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Industrial effluent water
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >We have treatments on the market called BIO CLEAN
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >We are also treating severely polluted winery effluent water,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >against various pollutants and to restore a well balanced water
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >ecology, healthy plant growth and neutralise the bad odours.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Industrial Air-conditioning systems
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >We have treatments on the market called BIO CLEAN
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >These systems can be treated with our organic treatments to destroy
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >harmful bacteria, reduce toxic gases and neutralise bad odours.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >These treatments should be seen as a necessity especially these days
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >with the outbreak of dangerous viruses. By treating these systems
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >one can be assured of a safe and healthy environment, seeing that
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >the air-conditioner produces clean, organic air.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Sewerage effluent water
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >We have treatments on the market called BIO CLEAN
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >We have succeeded in radically reducing high E-coli counts and our
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >treatments are designed to flocculate the TSS " Total Suspended
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Solids ", it also breaks down waste materials biologically and
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >reduces toxic gases.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Commercial grey water recycling
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Currently we are selling ReNeu in different nurseries and grey water
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >industries. This product is designed to recycle and neutralise grey
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >water naturally. It neutralises bad odours, destroys harmful
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >bacteria and reduces toxic gases such as ammonias, nitrates and
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >nitrites.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Storm water
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >We've treated various Parks board, catchment and storm water dams
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >with excellent results. The focus is on neutralising the bad
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >odours, controlling healthy balanced plant growth, restoring natural
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >water ecology and getting rid of the algae and in some cases the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >blue green algae problems, whilst neutralising sulphur production.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >These treatments is designed to release 80% more oxygen into the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >All of our treatments are 100% None Toxic Purely Organic Plant
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Extracts and 100% Environmentaly friendly!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >WE STRIVE TO HEAL THE WORLD'S POLLUTED, NATURAL WATER RESOURCES AND
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >WELCOME THE IDEA OF WORKING TOGETHER ON ANY PROJECT THAT WILL
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >BENEFIT OUR WATER RESOURCES.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        A Tourists Destination in Philippines
                                                                                                                                                                                                        A 276 sq. meters shoreline property fronting clean warm seawater with
                                                                                                                                                                                                        therapeutic fine grayish sparkling sands where one could go swimming
                                                                                                                                                                                                        even
                                                                                                                                                                                                        during nighttimes; ideal for vacation, retirement home, condo
                                                                                                                                                                                                        apartments
                                                                                                                                                                                                        site for sale to retired Filipinos overseas, spa treatment & training
                                                                                                                                                                                                        center, water sports, wave-energy hydrogen production plant,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        strategic site
                                                                                                                                                                                                        in northern Panay Island of Submarine Fiber Optic Cable & Cell Site
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Call
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Center; accessible to concrete road, electricity, clean drinking
                                                                                                                                                                                                        water,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        telephone and CableTV lines. Site interconnected to the 8-kilometer
                                                                                                                                                                                                        stretch
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Baybay Beach of Roxas City and 10 minutes distance from Airport &
                                                                                                                                                                                                        City
                                                                                                                                                                                                        proper. 3 hours by land distance from Boracay Island...Site pictures
                                                                                                                                                                                                        available upon request.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Roxas City, Capiz Province
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Contact: Tel/Fax: +63 36 522-2930
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mobile: +639205320659
                                                                                                                                                                                                        or email: nickvillarruz@g...; totocula@y...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Add'l pictures & Sketch/Vicinity Plan available upon request

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Lot Website - copy & paste the following link to your browser:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://ysodcurl.cjb.net

                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/capizlions


                                                                                                                                                                                                        Official Website of Capiz Province, Philippines
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.capiz.gov.ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://geocities.com/capiznon_ph/
                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- End forwarded message ---
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11912 From: nbv Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: fresh seafood from Roxas City, Capiz for sale worldwide
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Here's the live fish species currently available for sale worldwide,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        transshipped in waterless styrofoam boxes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. Grouper (Epinephilus coeides) "Lapu-lapu"
                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. Red Snapper ( Lutjanus bohar) " Maya-maya"
                                                                                                                                                                                                        3. Seabass ( Lates calcarifer) "Bulgan"
                                                                                                                                                                                                        4. Angel Wing "Diwal"

                                                                                                                                                                                                        We're also planning to ship the following in the future:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. Blue crabs (Callicnectes sapidus)
                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. Red seawater crabs "Cruzan'
                                                                                                                                                                                                        3. Prawn (Penaus monodon)
                                                                                                                                                                                                        4. Milkfish (Chanos chanos)

                                                                                                                                                                                                        For your seafood needs Metro Manila, please visit:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Fish Section
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Farmers' Market
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Araneta Center
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Cubao, Quezon City
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Contact person: Bebot Bernales
                                                                                                                                                                                                        cell # +639287583776

                                                                                                                                                                                                        For worldwide distribution, kindly do send email to Mr. Felipe Barredo at
                                                                                                                                                                                                        his email address: panay@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        or call tel. # +63 36 6212-022
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        A Tourists Destination in Philippines
                                                                                                                                                                                                        A 276 sq. meters shoreline property fronting clean warm seawater with
                                                                                                                                                                                                        therapeutic fine grayish sparkling sands where one could go swimming even
                                                                                                                                                                                                        during nighttimes; ideal for vacation, retirement home, condo apartments
                                                                                                                                                                                                        site for sale to retired Filipinos overseas, spa treatment & training
                                                                                                                                                                                                        center, water sports, wave-energy hydrogen production plant, strategic site
                                                                                                                                                                                                        in northern Panay Island of Submarine Fiber Optic Cable & Cell Site Call
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Center; accessible to concrete road, electricity, clean drinking water,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        telephone and CableTV lines. Site interconnected to the 8-kilometer stretch
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Baybay Beach of Roxas City and 10 minutes distance from Airport & City
                                                                                                                                                                                                        proper. 3 hours by land distance from Boracay Island...Site pictures
                                                                                                                                                                                                        available upon request.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Roxas City, Capiz Province
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Contact: Tel/Fax: +63 36 522-2930
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mobile: +639205320659
                                                                                                                                                                                                        or email: nickvillarruz@...; totocula@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Add'l pictures & Sketch/Vicinity Plan available upon request

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Lot Website - copy & paste the following link to your browser:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://ysodcurl.cjb.net

                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/capizlions


                                                                                                                                                                                                        Official Website of Capiz Province, Philippines
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.capiz.gov.ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://geocities.com/capiznon_ph/
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11913 From: pondat2001 Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: limestone ph buffer
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I breed guppies and have made all my own filters (20) out of 4"
                                                                                                                                                                                                        thinwall pvc 5" to 6" deep with about 2" - 3" of gravel, half inch of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        purigen or carbon then 1" to 2" of floss. Gravel on bottom is for bio
                                                                                                                                                                                                        filter, floss is to keep large debris out of purigen. I use a 3/4" lift
                                                                                                                                                                                                        tube and an airstone to draw water from the bottom. These filters work
                                                                                                                                                                                                        very well along with weekly 50% water changes. I admittedly overcrowd
                                                                                                                                                                                                        and feed heavily but have healthy and happy fish. I have to clean the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        filters about once a month as debris builds and PH goes down. My
                                                                                                                                                                                                        question is: could an addition of crushed limestone such as that found
                                                                                                                                                                                                        in 50 lb. bags at the hardware store keep the PH up and perhaps
                                                                                                                                                                                                        increase my time between complete filter cleaning? I realize that there
                                                                                                                                                                                                        may be other impurities present but am thinking about trying it on one
                                                                                                                                                                                                        tank and seeing what happens. Any experience or suggestions on this
                                                                                                                                                                                                        matter?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11914 From: harry perry Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: fresh seafood from Roxas City, Capiz for sale worldwide/I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                        This is not your market place. You have been deleated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Harry

                                                                                                                                                                                                        nbv <nickvillarruz@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Here's the live fish species currently available for sale worldwide,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        transshipped in waterless styrofoam boxes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. Grouper (Epinephilus coeides) "Lapu-lapu"
                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. Red Snapper ( Lutjanus bohar) " Maya-maya"
                                                                                                                                                                                                        3. Seabass ( Lates calcarifer) "Bulgan"
                                                                                                                                                                                                        4. Angel Wing "Diwal"

                                                                                                                                                                                                        We're also planning to ship the following in the future:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. Blue crabs (Callicnectes sapidus)
                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. Red seawater crabs "Cruzan'
                                                                                                                                                                                                        3. Prawn (Penaus monodon)
                                                                                                                                                                                                        4. Milkfish (Chanos chanos)

                                                                                                                                                                                                        For your seafood needs Metro Manila, please visit:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Fish Section
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Farmers' Market
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Araneta Center
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Cubao, Quezon City
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Contact person: Bebot Bernales
                                                                                                                                                                                                        cell # +639287583776

                                                                                                                                                                                                        For worldwide distribution, kindly do send email to Mr. Felipe Barredo at
                                                                                                                                                                                                        his email address: panay@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        or call tel. # +63 36 6212-022
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        A Tourists Destination in Philippines
                                                                                                                                                                                                        A 276 sq. meters shoreline property fronting clean warm seawater with
                                                                                                                                                                                                        therapeutic fine grayish sparkling sands where one could go swimming even
                                                                                                                                                                                                        during nighttimes; ideal for vacation, retirement home, condo apartments
                                                                                                                                                                                                        site for sale to retired Filipinos overseas, spa treatment & training
                                                                                                                                                                                                        center, water sports, wave-energy hydrogen production plant, strategic site
                                                                                                                                                                                                        in northern Panay Island of Submarine Fiber Optic Cable & Cell Site Call
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Center; accessible to concrete road, electricity, clean drinking water,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        telephone and CableTV lines. Site interconnected to the 8-kilometer stretch
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Baybay Beach of Roxas City and 10 minutes distance from Airport & City
                                                                                                                                                                                                        proper. 3 hours by land distance from Boracay Island...Site pictures
                                                                                                                                                                                                        available upon request.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Roxas City, Capiz Province
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Contact: Tel/Fax: +63 36 522-2930
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mobile: +639205320659
                                                                                                                                                                                                        or email: nickvillarruz@...; totocula@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Add'l pictures & Sketch/Vicinity Plan available upon request

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Lot Website - copy & paste the following link to your browser:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://ysodcurl.cjb.net

                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/capizlions


                                                                                                                                                                                                        Official Website of Capiz Province, Philippines
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.capiz.gov.ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://geocities.com/capiznon_ph/



                                                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



                                                                                                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11915 From: TankGurl Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: limestone ph buffer
                                                                                                                                                                                                        A chunk of limestone rock will do the trick well too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Kelly

                                                                                                                                                                                                        On 5/30/05, pondat2001 <pondat2001@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I breed guppies and have made all my own filters (20) out of 4"
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > thinwall pvc 5" to 6" deep with about 2" - 3" of gravel, half inch of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > purigen or carbon then 1" to 2" of floss. Gravel on bottom is for bio
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > filter, floss is to keep large debris out of purigen. I use a 3/4" lift
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tube and an airstone to draw water from the bottom. These filters work
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > very well along with weekly 50% water changes. I admittedly overcrowd
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > and feed heavily but have healthy and happy fish. I have to clean the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > filters about once a month as debris builds and PH goes down. My
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > question is: could an addition of crushed limestone such as that found
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > in 50 lb. bags at the hardware store keep the PH up and perhaps
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > increase my time between complete filter cleaning? I realize that there
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > may be other impurities present but am thinking about trying it on one
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tank and seeing what happens. Any experience or suggestions on this
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > matter?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                                                                                                        65g Malawi
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?fish_gurl
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=7176
                                                                                                                                                                                                        135g Frontosa/Tang
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=8011
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11916 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Fungus in new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                        If you could send a pic it would be great...

                                                                                                                                                                                                        My heater always has a fungy like stuff on it but my fish seem ok, the fungy
                                                                                                                                                                                                        on mine is brown / dark green without the conttony growth your talking about
                                                                                                                                                                                                        tho.


                                                                                                                                                                                                        Have you tried soaking it in bleach or clorine thats supposed to be good for
                                                                                                                                                                                                        kill stuff off.


                                                                                                                                                                                                        PS: I recently brought some Mollies which eat the fungi, they are great!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        =Nick


                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Jim" <jdifronzo@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 8:43 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Fungus in new tank


                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I'm in the middle of fishless cycling my new aquarium. Nearly
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > everything in the tank is new, with the exception of a bio-sponge from
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > my bother-in-law.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > The problem I'm having is a fungal-like growth on the rubber suction
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > cups attached the the heater and thermometer. The white cottony growth
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > drops easily off the rubber when touched. I've cleaned the heater and
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > thermometer multiple times, but it returns after just a few days. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > filter easily cleans up the mess after a couple hours, but I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > concerned what effect this will have on the fish once added.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > My brother-in-law has never seen this problem in his tank and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > local shop tells me not to worry about it. So I'm looking for a second
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > (or more) opinion on this problem. Any feedback would be appreciated.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Jim
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11917 From: paul helms Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                        we are free to announce our feelings on the subject
                                                                                                                                                                                                        wherever we want Mr. GOD. why is it that you feel you
                                                                                                                                                                                                        need to go on these long rambling discourses just to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        tell others they should present their thoughts
                                                                                                                                                                                                        elsewhere, when you put whatever you want and as much
                                                                                                                                                                                                        of it in the same place?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > FWIW, most lists to which I belong do not allow
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > attachments. The original
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > reason was not to burden those with a dial-up
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > connection to receive the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > attachments, and when various virus became rampant
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > several years ago to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > prevent the spread of them through mailing lists.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Fine, you can be protected up to the hilt, but that
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > new virus that was just
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > released to the wild 30 minutes ago has gotten at
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > least that much head start
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > on the protection for it. Now, before you say that
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > most of the attachments
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > are .JPG files, there is a proof of concept out
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > using .JPG files as the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > carrier. It is only a matter of time before someone
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > puts in the effort to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > write such a virus and then it is a short step to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > put together a kit so even
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > script kiddies can do it if they want.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > There is a list I belong to that has an adjunct list
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > just for sending
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > photos. There is a disclaimer, when you join that
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > adjunct list that the user
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > should beware, just because of the possibility of an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > infected file being
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > posted.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > There is a limited amount of space provided to this
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > list, and all Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Based lists to upload files. If there is someone
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > here on the list with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > site and space on the site, they could set up a web
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > interface or an FTP site
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > for the photos that people wish to have other
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > members see.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > The powers that be saw fit to change the forum
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > members' privileges to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > disallow attachments. So be it. Should one disagree
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > with that stand, one is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > free to voice their displeasure by contacting the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > owner of the list at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > e-mail address given on the home page of the group:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com. They are also
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > free to unsubscribe from
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the list to find one that is more to their liking
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > (AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com). If one
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > feels that they must use
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the list to express their displeasure, they should
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > do it in a cogent, if
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > passionate, manner, just as they should if writing
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the list owner.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of Tim Fairchild
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 4:44 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: A request to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > On Tuesday 31 May 2005 03:09, TankGurl wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > On 5/30/05, paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > that is such crap
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > So are comments like this, IMO.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > True, but I also feel it's a pointless exersize to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > stop attachments for this
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > reason. There are exploits for MS software and OS's
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > on the net and it's up
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the individual to protect their own PC. Changing the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > group settings will not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > save them in the long run, and may just give a false
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > sence of security...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > It is better for MS users to either get all the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > protection software they
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > need
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > or move over to linux or a Mac...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tim
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > --
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Tim & Therese Fairchild
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Atchafalaya Border Collies.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Email mailto:tim@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Homepage http://www.bcs4me.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Photos http://www.pbase.com/amosf
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >



                                                                                                                                                                                                        __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11918 From: paul helms Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                        about that ...as posted
                                                                                                                                                                                                        in general...:)
                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- Deenerz@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > In a message dated 5/30/2005 8:20:09 AM Pacific
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > wtfmorlok@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > that is such crap
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Come on man, tell us how you really feel ;)
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > removed]
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >



                                                                                                                                                                                                        __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11919 From: paul helms Date: 5/30/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                        well opinions are like butt-holes (everyone knows what
                                                                                                                                                                                                        that is really supposed to be, but i made it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        pg-13)...everyone has one.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        LMAO
                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- TankGurl <fishgoddess@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > On 5/30/05, paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > that is such crap
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > So are comments like this, IMO.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > 65g Malawi
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?fish_gurl
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=7176
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > 135g Frontosa/Tang
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=8011
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >



                                                                                                                                                                                                        __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11920 From: Jim Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Fungus in new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > If you could send a pic it would be great...

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Just cleaned it last night. It will take a few days to build up
                                                                                                                                                                                                        again. I'll attach a photo soon.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        FWIW, it looks just like cotton when it is attached to the heater
                                                                                                                                                                                                        (white, fiberous, soft). When I touch it, it falls apart (explodes
                                                                                                                                                                                                        more like it) into pieces that scatters through the tank making quite
                                                                                                                                                                                                        a mess.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Have you tried soaking it in bleach or clorine thats supposed to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        good for
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > kill stuff off.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yup. Tried that a couple days ago, but no luck it came back.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        What could the fungi be feeding off on the rubber? It doesn't appear
                                                                                                                                                                                                        anywhere else in the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > PS: I recently brought some Mollies which eat the fungi, they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                        great!

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hmmm. There's an idea... I'll look into that!

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Jim
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11921 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have been running for years without a virus checker... every time a friend
                                                                                                                                                                                                        comes over and they have one i ask them to do virus check my machine.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have not had a virus for 12 years.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        The problem is not with your computer setup but more so with the user them
                                                                                                                                                                                                        selves. Simply don't down load any EXE, COM, BATCH, active X products etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Pictures and AVI's are fine in general and mostly thats all you really want
                                                                                                                                                                                                        any ways.




                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 4:03 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 792: Virus Help !


                                                                                                                                                                                                        > all you need is zone alarm pro and web root spy
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > sweeper, and norhing will get into your system. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > have been running 3 months withour any spyware,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > adware, or viruses, on a cabl;e modem that is on 24/7
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Valeen,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Norton is a NO, NO, NO as and anti-virus program or
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> as an internet security
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> suite. I see far too many problems with the Symantec
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> product to be able to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> recommend them. More problems come from Norton than
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> all the other products
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> combined.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> I spend my days mostly in the corporate world,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> working with many clients. If
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> I am done early enough to actually get back to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> office, I see consumer
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> (home) machines. I was a fan of the Symantec
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> corporate edition until early
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> last year, when I saw too many problems with it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Most of our clients are now
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> running something other than Symantec, mostly McAfee
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> or TrendMicro. It was
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> cheaper to switch than to pay us to fix the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> problems. A lot of the machines
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> we saw coming into the shop were having problems due
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> to the failings of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Norton software. They have pretty much
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> switched--most do not owe an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> allegiance to a particular product--they just want
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> one that works and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> don't have to worry about.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> In the evenings I do telephone tech support for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> small ISP who wires
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> apartment and condominium buildings for high speed
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> internet. Since I am only
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> responsible for the connection, I don't see problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> with the AV portion of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> the product, but the firewall portion is poor, to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> say the least. I've seen
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> many cases where the product has completely shut
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> down access to the NIC, not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> allowing any traffic to pass. I shut it down (well,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> they shut it down at my
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> direction), end of problem. I generally recommend
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> another firewall product
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> for them. I've not seen the problem with other
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> firewall products.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Behalf Of Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 2:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 792: Virus
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> yep, most it people advocate other email programs
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> than ms outlook due to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> ms's low security but
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> high user friendliness programs. at my former
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> company, the mis/it guy told
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> me eudora is better
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> than outlook when it comes to security. however, the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> best bet is to not open
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> attachments unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> you're expecting them, or verify with the sender
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> that they knowingly sent
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> them to you. and of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> course, don't download anything off the web unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> you know it's secure.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> always keep your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> anti-virus programs current!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> and if you have access to these programs, do a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> norton cleaning on your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> computer now and install
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> spyware & ad blocker software onto your computer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> these methods are not 100%
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> effective but are
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> better than not doing anything.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > or just don't use crap like outlook!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > --- nbv <nickvillarruz@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > As you may know, when/if a worm virus gets into
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > your computer it heads straight for your email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > address book and sends itself to everyone in
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> there,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > thus infecting all your friends and associates.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > This trick won't keep the virus from getting
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> into
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > your computer, but it will stop it from using
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > address book to spread further, and it will
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> alert
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > to the fact that the worm has gotten into your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > system.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > Here's what you do:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > First: Open your address book and click on "new
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > contact" or "new person" just as you would do if
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > you were adding a new friend to your list of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > addresses.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > Second: In the window where you would type your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > friend's FIRST name, type in ! 000 (that's an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > exclamation mark followed by 3 zeros). In the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> window
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > below where it prompts you to enter the new
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > address,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > type in Worm Alert.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > Third: Then complete everything by clicking add,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > enter, OK, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > Now, here's what you've done and why it works:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > the "name" !000 will be placed at the top of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > address book as entry #1. This will be where the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > will start in an effort to send itself to all
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > But when it tries to send itself to !000, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > undeliverable because of the phony email address
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > you entered (Worm Alert). If the first attempt
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> fails
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > (which it will because of the phony address),
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > worm goes no further and your friends will not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > infected.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > Here's the second great advantage of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> method:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > If an email cannot be delivered, you will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > notified
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > of this in your InBox almost immediately.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > Hence, if you ever get an email telling you that
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > email addressed to Worm Alert could not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > delivered, you know right away that you have the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > virus in your system. You can then take steps to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> get
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > rid of it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > Pretty slick huh?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > If everybody you know does this, then you
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> needn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > ever worry about opening mail from friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > > Pass this on to your friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> -------------------<snip>---------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11922 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: My experience - Fungi from over feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hi,



                                                                                                                                                                                                        My daughter had a birthday party last Saturday she turned 3 years old. Naturally I didn't feed the fish in the morning because I new the kids would really enjoy feeding them at the party.



                                                                                                                                                                                                        I even put a daily share of fish food into a separate container which I used when sharing out the fish food to each of the kids that way i could be sure of not overfeeding the fish in my aquarium.





                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have lots of tropical fish in the community aquarium and in one corner of the aquarium i have a breeding tank which is held just on the water line, deep enough for the baby Guppies which are living/growing in the breeding tank to swim around happily.





                                                                                                                                                                                                        Naturally baby fish are a favourite attraction with the children, so when fish feeding time came during the party i shared out a portion to each of the children so there would be no fights as to another child having more fish food to give the fish than another child.





                                                                                                                                                                                                        All the kids went straight for the baby fish breeding tank and pretty much most of the fish food went to the guppy babies. Wow, were the guppy babies happy, the other community fish finished their share of the food and then tried to steal the food out of the cracks of the breeding tank... lovely show and all the children loved the action as by now the fish were of course hungry.





                                                                                                                                                                                                        The next day (sun) i was busy cleaning the house with my wife and completely forgot about the excess food in the breeding thank. Of course Monday i was working all-day and was too tired / busy to clean the tank Monday night. Then last night (Tuesday) i was back to my normal routine of relaxing in front of the fish tank and I noticed the excess food still in the guppy breeding tank was growing fingernail long fungi and there was a couple of little baby guppies dead.... OH NO! warning bells ringing in my head i had to do something.



                                                                                                                                                                                                        Anyways Me and Zara (daughter) cleaned out the breeding tank carefully and every things back to a sanitised state in the aquarium.







                                                                                                                                                                                                        My point/experience is this: Excess food can cause a sick tank in just a couple of days, 72hours in my case, probably less. So the notion of not over feeding is a valid one.



                                                                                                                                                                                                        =Nick

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Happy fishing!




                                                                                                                                                                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11923 From: paul helms Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        i don't know what your internet connection is, but i
                                                                                                                                                                                                        have clients that have adware and popups within 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                        seconds of booting up the machines, before i take care
                                                                                                                                                                                                        of things. adware is automatically installed through
                                                                                                                                                                                                        cookies in many cases. for 25 bucks they can be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        completely overted. that is all i was mentioning. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                        find it amazing that so many people think that they
                                                                                                                                                                                                        know what they are talking about without any first
                                                                                                                                                                                                        hand experience. i am no referring to you at all btw.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        i always laugh at so called"tech support" guys that
                                                                                                                                                                                                        thin they know something because they read a script
                                                                                                                                                                                                        and run you through a bunch of BS that does nothing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        nothing beats hands on experience, everything beats
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ears on experience...lmao
                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I have been running for years without a virus
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > checker... every time a friend
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > comes over and they have one i ask them to do virus
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > check my machine.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I have not had a virus for 12 years.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > The problem is not with your computer setup but more
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > so with the user them
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > selves. Simply don't down load any EXE, COM,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > BATCH, active X products etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Pictures and AVI's are fine in general and mostly
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > thats all you really want
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > any ways.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 4:03 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 792: Virus
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > all you need is zone alarm pro and web root spy
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > sweeper, and norhing will get into your system. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > have been running 3 months withour any spyware,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > adware, or viruses, on a cabl;e modem that is on
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > 24/7
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> Valeen,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> Norton is a NO, NO, NO as and anti-virus program
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > or
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> as an internet security
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> suite. I see far too many problems with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Symantec
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> product to be able to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> recommend them. More problems come from Norton
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > than
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> all the other products
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> combined.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> I spend my days mostly in the corporate world,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> working with many clients. If
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> I am done early enough to actually get back to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> office, I see consumer
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> (home) machines. I was a fan of the Symantec
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> corporate edition until early
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> last year, when I saw too many problems with it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> Most of our clients are now
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> running something other than Symantec, mostly
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > McAfee
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> or TrendMicro. It was
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> cheaper to switch than to pay us to fix the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> problems. A lot of the machines
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> we saw coming into the shop were having problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > due
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> to the failings of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> Norton software. They have pretty much
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> switched--most do not owe an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> allegiance to a particular product--they just
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > want
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> one that works and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> don't have to worry about.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> In the evenings I do telephone tech support for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> small ISP who wires
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> apartment and condominium buildings for high
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > speed
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> internet. Since I am only
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> responsible for the connection, I don't see
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> with the AV portion of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> the product, but the firewall portion is poor, to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> say the least. I've seen
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> many cases where the product has completely shut
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> down access to the NIC, not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> allowing any traffic to pass. I shut it down
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > (well,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> they shut it down at my
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> direction), end of problem. I generally recommend
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> another firewall product
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> for them. I've not seen the problem with other
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> firewall products.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> Behalf Of Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 2:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 792:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Virus
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> yep, most it people advocate other email programs
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> than ms outlook due to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> ms's low security but
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> high user friendliness programs. at my former
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> company, the mis/it guy told
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> me eudora is better
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> than outlook when it comes to security. however,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> best bet is to not open
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> attachments unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> you're expecting them, or verify with the sender
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> that they knowingly sent
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> them to you. and of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> course, don't download anything off the web
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> you know it's secure.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> always keep your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> anti-virus programs current!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> and if you have access to these programs, do a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> norton cleaning on your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> computer now and install
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> spyware & ad blocker software onto your computer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> these methods are not 100%
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> effective but are
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> better than not doing anything.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > or just don't use crap like outlook!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > --- nbv <nickvillarruz@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > As you may know, when/if a worm virus gets
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > into
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > your computer it heads straight for your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > address book and sends itself to everyone in
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> there,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > thus infecting all your friends and
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > associates.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > This trick won't keep the virus from getting
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> into
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > your computer, but it will stop it from using
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > address book to spread further, and it will
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> alert
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > to the fact that the worm has gotten into
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > system.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > Here's what you do:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > First: Open your address book and click on
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > "new
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > contact" or "new person" just as you would do
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > if
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > you were adding a new friend to your list of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > addresses.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > Second: In the window where you would type
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > friend's FIRST name, type in ! 000 (that's an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > exclamation mark followed by 3 zeros). In the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> window
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > below where it prompts you to enter the new
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > address,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > type in Worm Alert.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > Third: Then complete everything by clicking
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > add,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > enter, OK, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > Now, here's what you've done and why it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > works:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > the "name" !000 will be placed at the top of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > address book as entry #1. This will be where
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > will start in an effort to send itself to all
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > But when it tries to send itself to !000, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > undeliverable because of the phony email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > address
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > you entered (Worm Alert). If the first
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > attempt
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> fails
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > (which it will because of the phony address),
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >> > > worm goes no further and your friends will
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        === message truncated ===




                                                                                                                                                                                                        __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11924 From: fishyfishy95 Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Oh - I have a Serpae Tetra - not a raspberry tetra
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Okay, I did some more research on my fish - and my raspberry tetra is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        actually a Serpae Tetra. It looks exactly like the photo at this
                                                                                                                                                                                                        website:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://species.fishindex.com/species_661hyphessobrycon_eques_serpae_tet
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ra.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Also, thank you for your information on the biotope tank. I figured
                                                                                                                                                                                                        that this idea had been around a while, you just don't see much
                                                                                                                                                                                                        promotion of it in the fish store.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Tami
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11925 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Starting up a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Okay, I know there is a lot of disagreement over fishless/vs fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                        cycling of a new tank. I am going to go fishless, for the simple fact
                                                                                                                                                                                                        that I want my plants well established before I add fish, to prevent
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the uprooting problems. I also want to take my time and get exactly
                                                                                                                                                                                                        what I want instead of just impulse buying fish. I would like to get
                                                                                                                                                                                                        some shrimp, ghost shrimp and cherry fire shrimp to put into the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                        and let them get acclimated and maybe start reproducing before I put
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the fish in. Would it be better to let the tank complete the fishless
                                                                                                                                                                                                        cycle before I put them in? Or can they be put in as soon after the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        tank is set up as I want without harming them?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11926 From: fishyfishy95 Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Origin of Giant Danio
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have two confliciting websites. I know that I have already been
                                                                                                                                                                                                        told about the reliability of the internet and its information. I was
                                                                                                                                                                                                        wondering if anyone had some insight on the origins of the Giant Danio

                                                                                                                                                                                                        This website:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://species.fishindex.com/species_2926danio_aequipinnatus_giant_dani
                                                                                                                                                                                                        o.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                        says: Nicaragua (lakes Managua and Nicaragua and affluent streams or
                                                                                                                                                                                                        rivers).

                                                                                                                                                                                                        This website: http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/giant.xml

                                                                                                                                                                                                        says: India and Sri Lanka.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        So which is it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Tami
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11927 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Origin of Giant Danio
                                                                                                                                                                                                        India and Sri Lanka


                                                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of fishyfishy95
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 8:20 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [AquaticLife] Origin of Giant Danio

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have two confliciting websites. I know that I have already been
                                                                                                                                                                                                        told about the reliability of the internet and its information. I was
                                                                                                                                                                                                        wondering if anyone had some insight on the origins of the Giant Danio

                                                                                                                                                                                                        This website:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://species.fishindex.com/species_2926danio_aequipinnatus_giant_dani
                                                                                                                                                                                                        o.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                        says: Nicaragua (lakes Managua and Nicaragua and affluent streams or
                                                                                                                                                                                                        rivers).

                                                                                                                                                                                                        This website: http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/giant.xml

                                                                                                                                                                                                        says: India and Sri Lanka.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        So which is it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Tami
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11928 From: Valeen Gonzalez Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        hm, not sure where you got that idea, as everyone i know who uses it says it works well. my office uses it, my husband's large corporation uses it, almost everyone i know uses it and have never had problems with it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        of course, nothing is 100% effective, especially as new viruses are released often. but it's best to have some sort of anti-virus software on any computer hooked to the internet and/or one that is used for email.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Valeen,

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Norton is a NO, NO, NO as and anti-virus program or as an internet security
                                                                                                                                                                                                        suite. I see far too many problems with the Symantec product to be able to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        recommend them. More problems come from Norton than all the other products
                                                                                                                                                                                                        combined.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I spend my days mostly in the corporate world, working with many clients. If
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I am done early enough to actually get back to the office, I see consumer
                                                                                                                                                                                                        (home) machines. I was a fan of the Symantec corporate edition until early
                                                                                                                                                                                                        last year, when I saw too many problems with it. Most of our clients are now
                                                                                                                                                                                                        running something other than Symantec, mostly McAfee or TrendMicro. It was
                                                                                                                                                                                                        cheaper to switch than to pay us to fix the problems. A lot of the machines
                                                                                                                                                                                                        we saw coming into the shop were having problems due to the failings of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Norton software. They have pretty much switched--most do not owe an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        allegiance to a particular product--they just want one that works and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                        don't have to worry about.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        In the evenings I do telephone tech support for a small ISP who wires
                                                                                                                                                                                                        apartment and condominium buildings for high speed internet. Since I am only
                                                                                                                                                                                                        responsible for the connection, I don't see problems with the AV portion of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the product, but the firewall portion is poor, to say the least. I've seen
                                                                                                                                                                                                        many cases where the product has completely shut down access to the NIC, not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        allowing any traffic to pass. I shut it down (well, they shut it down at my
                                                                                                                                                                                                        direction), end of problem. I generally recommend another firewall product
                                                                                                                                                                                                        for them. I've not seen the problem with other firewall products.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 2:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 792: Virus Help !

                                                                                                                                                                                                        yep, most it people advocate other email programs than ms outlook due to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ms's low security but
                                                                                                                                                                                                        high user friendliness programs. at my former company, the mis/it guy told
                                                                                                                                                                                                        me eudora is better
                                                                                                                                                                                                        than outlook when it comes to security. however, the best bet is to not open
                                                                                                                                                                                                        attachments unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                        you're expecting them, or verify with the sender that they knowingly sent
                                                                                                                                                                                                        them to you. and of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        course, don't download anything off the web unless you know it's secure.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        always keep your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        anti-virus programs current!

                                                                                                                                                                                                        and if you have access to these programs, do a norton cleaning on your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        computer now and install
                                                                                                                                                                                                        spyware & ad blocker software onto your computer. these methods are not 100%
                                                                                                                                                                                                        effective but are
                                                                                                                                                                                                        better than not doing anything.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        > or just don't use crap like outlook!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- nbv <nickvillarruz@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > As you may know, when/if a worm virus gets into
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > your computer it heads straight for your email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > address book and sends itself to everyone in there,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > thus infecting all your friends and associates.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > This trick won't keep the virus from getting into
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > your computer, but it will stop it from using your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > address book to spread further, and it will alert
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > to the fact that the worm has gotten into your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > system.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Here's what you do:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > First: Open your address book and click on "new
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > contact" or "new person" just as you would do if
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > you were adding a new friend to your list of email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > addresses.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Second: In the window where you would type your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > friend's FIRST name, type in ! 000 (that's an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > exclamation mark followed by 3 zeros). In the window
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > below where it prompts you to enter the new email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > address,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > type in Worm Alert.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Third: Then complete everything by clicking add,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > enter, OK, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Now, here's what you've done and why it works:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > the "name" !000 will be placed at the top of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > address book as entry #1. This will be where the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > will start in an effort to send itself to all your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > But when it tries to send itself to !000, it will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > undeliverable because of the phony email address
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > you entered (Worm Alert). If the first attempt fails
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > (which it will because of the phony address), the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > worm goes no further and your friends will not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > infected.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Here's the second great advantage of this method:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > If an email cannot be delivered, you will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > notified
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > of this in your InBox almost immediately.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Hence, if you ever get an email telling you that an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > email addressed to Worm Alert could not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > delivered, you know right away that you have the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > virus in your system. You can then take steps to get
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > rid of it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Pretty slick huh?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > If everybody you know does this, then you needn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > ever worry about opening mail from friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Pass this on to your friends.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        -------------------<snip>---------------------



                                                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You in Advance for your help in this matter



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                                                                                                                                                                                                        Valeen Robertson Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I love my 2 Ocellaris clownfish!



                                                                                                                                                                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11929 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Paul,

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have been doing e-mail even before there was the idea of attachments to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        messages. Most lists follow a certain set of protocols that have developed
                                                                                                                                                                                                        over time, and are usually based on practices that have been developed
                                                                                                                                                                                                        elsewhere over the years. I merely was pointing out some of this history and
                                                                                                                                                                                                        general etiquette that has been followed on many lists. Had you taken the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        time to read my post, you would have noted that posting arguments against
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the decisions of the powers that be to the list was not ruled out. What is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ruled out, so far as I am concerned, is the use of vulgar language such as
                                                                                                                                                                                                        started this particular thread.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Should one wish to dispute a ruling of the powers that be, they have the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        following choices:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. Complain to the list owner off list, stating your reasons why you think
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the disputed change was a bad decision.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. Unsubscribe from the list.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        3. If they feel the complaint should be posted to the list, or the list
                                                                                                                                                                                                        owner is unresponsive, do so.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        In all cases the complaint should be done in a logical cogent manner. If you
                                                                                                                                                                                                        are able to state your case with strong enough arguments, or enough of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        list agrees with your point of view, the decision may be reversed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Also, as I noted, I did offer some suggestions as to how photos, which seem
                                                                                                                                                                                                        to be the main attachment type on this list could be handled, as at least
                                                                                                                                                                                                        one person picked up on, without using attachments. So, you argue for
                                                                                                                                                                                                        attachments to be allowed again, or you provide either a vehicle or ideas
                                                                                                                                                                                                        how these files can be handled without using attachments.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Also, it is proper etiquette not to use ad hominem attacks when writing
                                                                                                                                                                                                        replies. They serve no purpose, and can easily be classified the same as
                                                                                                                                                                                                        vulgar language.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 2:54 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: A request to the group management

                                                                                                                                                                                                        we are free to announce our feelings on the subject
                                                                                                                                                                                                        wherever we want Mr. GOD. why is it that you feel you
                                                                                                                                                                                                        need to go on these long rambling discourses just to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        tell others they should present their thoughts
                                                                                                                                                                                                        elsewhere, when you put whatever you want and as much
                                                                                                                                                                                                        of it in the same place?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > FWIW, most lists to which I belong do not allow
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > attachments. The original
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > reason was not to burden those with a dial-up
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > connection to receive the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > attachments, and when various virus became rampant
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > several years ago to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > prevent the spread of them through mailing lists.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Fine, you can be protected up to the hilt, but that
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > new virus that was just
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > released to the wild 30 minutes ago has gotten at
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > least that much head start
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > on the protection for it. Now, before you say that
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > most of the attachments
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > are .JPG files, there is a proof of concept out
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > using .JPG files as the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > carrier. It is only a matter of time before someone
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > puts in the effort to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > write such a virus and then it is a short step to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > put together a kit so even
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > script kiddies can do it if they want.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > There is a list I belong to that has an adjunct list
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > just for sending
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > photos. There is a disclaimer, when you join that
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > adjunct list that the user
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > should beware, just because of the possibility of an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > infected file being
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > posted.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > There is a limited amount of space provided to this
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > list, and all Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Based lists to upload files. If there is someone
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > here on the list with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > site and space on the site, they could set up a web
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > interface or an FTP site
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > for the photos that people wish to have other
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > members see.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > The powers that be saw fit to change the forum
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > members' privileges to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > disallow attachments. So be it. Should one disagree
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > with that stand, one is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > free to voice their displeasure by contacting the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > owner of the list at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > e-mail address given on the home page of the group:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com. They are also
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > free to unsubscribe from
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the list to find one that is more to their liking
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > (AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com). If one
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > feels that they must use
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the list to express their displeasure, they should
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > do it in a cogent, if
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > passionate, manner, just as they should if writing
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the list owner.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of Tim Fairchild
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 4:44 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: A request to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > On Tuesday 31 May 2005 03:09, TankGurl wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > On 5/30/05, paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > that is such crap
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > So are comments like this, IMO.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > True, but I also feel it's a pointless exersize to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > stop attachments for this
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > reason. There are exploits for MS software and OS's
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > on the net and it's up
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the individual to protect their own PC. Changing the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > group settings will not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > save them in the long run, and may just give a false
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > sence of security...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > It is better for MS users to either get all the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > protection software they
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > need
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > or move over to linux or a Mac...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tim
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > --
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Tim & Therese Fairchild
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Atchafalaya Border Collies.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ---------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Email mailto:tim@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Homepage http://www.bcs4me.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Photos http://www.pbase.com/amosf
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11930 From: Nicolas Munro Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I danno, it just seams that my internet technique (if there is such a thing)
                                                                                                                                                                                                        makes me immune to viruses.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Cable internet by the way, 24/7.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        But I agree, i've also seen lots of people who are completely hammed with
                                                                                                                                                                                                        adware, popups, redirectors etc...


                                                                                                                                                                                                        I spent 3 months reading and crawing the internet about fishtank stuff...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        only to find that I fell into the same holes i was trying to avoid. Its not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        until you actually buy your first fish tank and put in the time and effort
                                                                                                                                                                                                        till you really learn what it is your trying to learn.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Pratice make perfect but research helps get you there faster I suppose.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 9:45 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 792: Virus Help !


                                                                                                                                                                                                        >i don't know what your internet connection is, but i
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > have clients that have adware and popups within 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > seconds of booting up the machines, before i take care
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > of things. adware is automatically installed through
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > cookies in many cases. for 25 bucks they can be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > completely overted. that is all i was mentioning. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > find it amazing that so many people think that they
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > know what they are talking about without any first
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > hand experience. i am no referring to you at all btw.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > i always laugh at so called"tech support" guys that
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > thin they know something because they read a script
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > and run you through a bunch of BS that does nothing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > nothing beats hands on experience, everything beats
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ears on experience...lmao
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- Nicolas Munro <nmunro@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> I have been running for years without a virus
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> checker... every time a friend
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> comes over and they have one i ask them to do virus
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> check my machine.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> I have not had a virus for 12 years.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> The problem is not with your computer setup but more
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> so with the user them
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> selves. Simply don't down load any EXE, COM,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> BATCH, active X products etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Pictures and AVI's are fine in general and mostly
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> thats all you really want
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> any ways.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 4:03 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 792: Virus
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > all you need is zone alarm pro and web root spy
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > sweeper, and norhing will get into your system. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > have been running 3 months withour any spyware,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > adware, or viruses, on a cabl;e modem that is on
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> 24/7
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> Valeen,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> Norton is a NO, NO, NO as and anti-virus program
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> or
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> as an internet security
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> suite. I see far too many problems with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Symantec
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> product to be able to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> recommend them. More problems come from Norton
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> than
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> all the other products
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> combined.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> I spend my days mostly in the corporate world,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> working with many clients. If
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> I am done early enough to actually get back to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> office, I see consumer
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> (home) machines. I was a fan of the Symantec
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> corporate edition until early
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> last year, when I saw too many problems with it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> Most of our clients are now
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> running something other than Symantec, mostly
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> McAfee
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> or TrendMicro. It was
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> cheaper to switch than to pay us to fix the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> problems. A lot of the machines
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> we saw coming into the shop were having problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> due
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> to the failings of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> Norton software. They have pretty much
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> switched--most do not owe an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> allegiance to a particular product--they just
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> want
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> one that works and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> don't have to worry about.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> In the evenings I do telephone tech support for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> small ISP who wires
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> apartment and condominium buildings for high
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> speed
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> internet. Since I am only
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> responsible for the connection, I don't see
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> with the AV portion of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> the product, but the firewall portion is poor, to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> say the least. I've seen
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> many cases where the product has completely shut
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> down access to the NIC, not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> allowing any traffic to pass. I shut it down
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> (well,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> they shut it down at my
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> direction), end of problem. I generally recommend
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> another firewall product
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> for them. I've not seen the problem with other
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> firewall products.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> Behalf Of Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 2:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 792:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Virus
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> yep, most it people advocate other email programs
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> than ms outlook due to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> ms's low security but
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> high user friendliness programs. at my former
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> company, the mis/it guy told
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> me eudora is better
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> than outlook when it comes to security. however,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> best bet is to not open
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> attachments unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> you're expecting them, or verify with the sender
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> that they knowingly sent
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> them to you. and of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> course, don't download anything off the web
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> you know it's secure.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> always keep your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> anti-virus programs current!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> and if you have access to these programs, do a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> norton cleaning on your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> computer now and install
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> spyware & ad blocker software onto your computer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> these methods are not 100%
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> effective but are
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> better than not doing anything.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > or just don't use crap like outlook!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > --- nbv <nickvillarruz@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > As you may know, when/if a worm virus gets
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> into
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > your computer it heads straight for your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > address book and sends itself to everyone in
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> there,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > thus infecting all your friends and
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> associates.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > This trick won't keep the virus from getting
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> into
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > your computer, but it will stop it from using
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > address book to spread further, and it will
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> alert
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > to the fact that the worm has gotten into
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > system.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > Here's what you do:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > First: Open your address book and click on
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> "new
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > contact" or "new person" just as you would do
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> if
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > you were adding a new friend to your list of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > addresses.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > Second: In the window where you would type
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > friend's FIRST name, type in ! 000 (that's an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > exclamation mark followed by 3 zeros). In the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> window
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > below where it prompts you to enter the new
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > address,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > type in Worm Alert.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > Third: Then complete everything by clicking
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> add,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > enter, OK, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > Now, here's what you've done and why it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> works:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > the "name" !000 will be placed at the top of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > address book as entry #1. This will be where
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > will start in an effort to send itself to all
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > But when it tries to send itself to !000, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > undeliverable because of the phony email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> address
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > you entered (Worm Alert). If the first
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> attempt
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> fails
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > (which it will because of the phony address),
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> >> > > worm goes no further and your friends will
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > === message truncated ===
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
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                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11931 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Well, I just got off the phone doing a support call, and her problem was the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Norton firewall component of the product, which unilaterally decided to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        block all access to and from her machine. Symantec is usually the last to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        come out with updates for the newest virus, and they do get them wrong more
                                                                                                                                                                                                        often than other companies as a whole. I've also have seen other problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                        with the product, depending on the machine's configuration, and the programs
                                                                                                                                                                                                        it is running either on the desktop or in the background.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        As you say, no product is perfect, and I did not intend to imply that, but,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I've seen less problems with others than I have with Norton's (or, at least,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Symantec's version of it). When people ask me for recommendations, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                        generally give them two or three products they can chose from, to suit their
                                                                                                                                                                                                        needs or preferences, but I could never, in good conscience, recommend the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Norton product.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 9:57 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 792: Virus Help !

                                                                                                                                                                                                        hm, not sure where you got that idea, as everyone i know who uses it says it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        works well. my office uses it, my husband's large corporation uses it,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        almost everyone i know uses it and have never had problems with it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        of course, nothing is 100% effective, especially as new viruses are released
                                                                                                                                                                                                        often. but it's best to have some sort of anti-virus software on any
                                                                                                                                                                                                        computer hooked to the internet and/or one that is used for email.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Valeen,

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Norton is a NO, NO, NO as and anti-virus program or as an internet security
                                                                                                                                                                                                        suite. I see far too many problems with the Symantec product to be able to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        recommend them. More problems come from Norton than all the other products
                                                                                                                                                                                                        combined.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I spend my days mostly in the corporate world, working with many clients. If
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I am done early enough to actually get back to the office, I see consumer
                                                                                                                                                                                                        (home) machines. I was a fan of the Symantec corporate edition until early
                                                                                                                                                                                                        last year, when I saw too many problems with it. Most of our clients are now
                                                                                                                                                                                                        running something other than Symantec, mostly McAfee or TrendMicro. It was
                                                                                                                                                                                                        cheaper to switch than to pay us to fix the problems. A lot of the machines
                                                                                                                                                                                                        we saw coming into the shop were having problems due to the failings of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Norton software. They have pretty much switched--most do not owe an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        allegiance to a particular product--they just want one that works and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                        don't have to worry about.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        In the evenings I do telephone tech support for a small ISP who wires
                                                                                                                                                                                                        apartment and condominium buildings for high speed internet. Since I am only
                                                                                                                                                                                                        responsible for the connection, I don't see problems with the AV portion of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the product, but the firewall portion is poor, to say the least. I've seen
                                                                                                                                                                                                        many cases where the product has completely shut down access to the NIC, not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        allowing any traffic to pass. I shut it down (well, they shut it down at my
                                                                                                                                                                                                        direction), end of problem. I generally recommend another firewall product
                                                                                                                                                                                                        for them. I've not seen the problem with other firewall products.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 2:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 792: Virus Help !

                                                                                                                                                                                                        yep, most it people advocate other email programs than ms outlook due to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ms's low security but
                                                                                                                                                                                                        high user friendliness programs. at my former company, the mis/it guy told
                                                                                                                                                                                                        me eudora is better
                                                                                                                                                                                                        than outlook when it comes to security. however, the best bet is to not open
                                                                                                                                                                                                        attachments unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                        you're expecting them, or verify with the sender that they knowingly sent
                                                                                                                                                                                                        them to you. and of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        course, don't download anything off the web unless you know it's secure.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        always keep your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        anti-virus programs current!

                                                                                                                                                                                                        and if you have access to these programs, do a norton cleaning on your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        computer now and install
                                                                                                                                                                                                        spyware & ad blocker software onto your computer. these methods are not 100%
                                                                                                                                                                                                        effective but are
                                                                                                                                                                                                        better than not doing anything.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11933 From: pondat2001 Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: limestone ph buffer
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks so much for the prompt reply. I will try that as well.


                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, TankGurl <fishgoddess@g...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > A chunk of limestone rock will do the trick well too.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Kelly
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> --
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > 65g Malawi
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?fish_gurl
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=7176
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > 135g Frontosa/Tang
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=8011
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11934 From: paul helms Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        there is some validity in what he has said about
                                                                                                                                                                                                        norton, in that over the past year they have slouched
                                                                                                                                                                                                        a little where other companies have caught up to their
                                                                                                                                                                                                        old standards, but as pointed out, there is a big
                                                                                                                                                                                                        difference between tech support cue card experience
                                                                                                                                                                                                        and real world experiences....don't sweat it. keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                        yourself update and you should be fine....much like
                                                                                                                                                                                                        testing your fish tank on a regular basis will prevent
                                                                                                                                                                                                        tragedies
                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        > hm, not sure where you got that idea, as everyone i
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > know who uses it says it works well. my office uses
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > it, my husband's large corporation uses it, almost
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > everyone i know uses it and have never had problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > with it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > of course, nothing is 100% effective, especially as
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > new viruses are released often. but it's best to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > have some sort of anti-virus software on any
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > computer hooked to the internet and/or one that is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > used for email.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Valeen,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Norton is a NO, NO, NO as and anti-virus program or
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > as an internet security
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > suite. I see far too many problems with the Symantec
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > product to be able to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > recommend them. More problems come from Norton than
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > all the other products
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > combined.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I spend my days mostly in the corporate world,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > working with many clients. If
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I am done early enough to actually get back to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > office, I see consumer
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > (home) machines. I was a fan of the Symantec
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > corporate edition until early
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > last year, when I saw too many problems with it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Most of our clients are now
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > running something other than Symantec, mostly McAfee
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > or TrendMicro. It was
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > cheaper to switch than to pay us to fix the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > problems. A lot of the machines
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > we saw coming into the shop were having problems due
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > to the failings of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Norton software. They have pretty much
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > switched--most do not owe an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > allegiance to a particular product--they just want
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > one that works and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > don't have to worry about.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > In the evenings I do telephone tech support for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > small ISP who wires
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > apartment and condominium buildings for high speed
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > internet. Since I am only
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > responsible for the connection, I don't see problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > with the AV portion of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the product, but the firewall portion is poor, to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > say the least. I've seen
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > many cases where the product has completely shut
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > down access to the NIC, not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > allowing any traffic to pass. I shut it down (well,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > they shut it down at my
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > direction), end of problem. I generally recommend
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > another firewall product
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > for them. I've not seen the problem with other
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > firewall products.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 2:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 792: Virus
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > yep, most it people advocate other email programs
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > than ms outlook due to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ms's low security but
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > high user friendliness programs. at my former
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > company, the mis/it guy told
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > me eudora is better
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > than outlook when it comes to security. however, the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > best bet is to not open
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > attachments unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > you're expecting them, or verify with the sender
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > that they knowingly sent
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > them to you. and of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > course, don't download anything off the web unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > you know it's secure.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > always keep your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > anti-virus programs current!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > and if you have access to these programs, do a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > norton cleaning on your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > computer now and install
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > spyware & ad blocker software onto your computer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > these methods are not 100%
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > effective but are
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > better than not doing anything.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > or just don't use crap like outlook!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- nbv <nickvillarruz@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > As you may know, when/if a worm virus gets into
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > your computer it heads straight for your email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > address book and sends itself to everyone in
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > there,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > thus infecting all your friends and associates.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > This trick won't keep the virus from getting
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > into
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > your computer, but it will stop it from using
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > address book to spread further, and it will
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > alert
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > to the fact that the worm has gotten into your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > system.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Here's what you do:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > First: Open your address book and click on "new
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > contact" or "new person" just as you would do if
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > you were adding a new friend to your list of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > addresses.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Second: In the window where you would type your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > friend's FIRST name, type in ! 000 (that's an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > exclamation mark followed by 3 zeros). In the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > window
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > below where it prompts you to enter the new
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > address,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > type in Worm Alert.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Third: Then complete everything by clicking add,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > enter, OK, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Now, here's what you've done and why it works:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > the "name" !000 will be placed at the top of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > address book as entry #1. This will be where the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > will start in an effort to send itself to all
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > But when it tries to send itself to !000, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > undeliverable because of the phony email address
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > you entered (Worm Alert). If the first attempt
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > fails
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > (which it will because of the phony address),
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > worm goes no further and your friends will not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > infected.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Here's the second great advantage of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > method:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > If an email cannot be delivered, you will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > notified
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > of this in your InBox almost immediately.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Hence, if you ever get an email telling you that
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > email addressed to Worm Alert could not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > delivered, you know right away that you have the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > virus in your system. You can then take steps to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > get
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > rid of it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Pretty slick huh?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > If everybody you know does this, then you
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > needn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > ever worry about opening mail from friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Pass this on to your friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > -------------------<snip>---------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        === message truncated ===




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                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11935 From: paul helms Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Starting up a new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                        cycle it first.....use something like stress zyme with
                                                                                                                                                                                                        live bacteria and a food source in the bottle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- cynthia brennemann <brennewoman@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Okay, I know there is a lot of disagreement over
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > fishless/vs fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > cycling of a new tank. I am going to go fishless,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > for the simple fact
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > that I want my plants well established before I add
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > fish, to prevent
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the uprooting problems. I also want to take my time
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > and get exactly
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > what I want instead of just impulse buying fish. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > would like to get
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > some shrimp, ghost shrimp and cherry fire shrimp to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > put into the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > and let them get acclimated and maybe start
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > reproducing before I put
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the fish in. Would it be better to let the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > complete the fishless
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > cycle before I put them in? Or can they be put in
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > as soon after the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tank is set up as I want without harming them?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11936 From: Patrick, AAFG Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                        As for switching off attachments...It was just a suggestion. I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        starting to think y'all just want to argue. It's like pro wrestling. I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        waiting for chairs to start flying! I went for a year with no antivirus at
                                                                                                                                                                                                        all, and I just got NAV 2005 a couple of weeks ago and it didn't find a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        single virus, but if found spyware and adware that even spybot didn't find
                                                                                                                                                                                                        (spybot's argument is that other services have a lower standard for what
                                                                                                                                                                                                        spyware is, so it gets more of it). I say stop the fussing, talk about fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                        (you know, little swimming things that live in your glass boxes), and forget
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I brought it up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick, an American Fish Guy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                                        -Winston Churchill

                                                                                                                                                                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11937 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Dude,

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm in the trenches all day. Don't have a cue card, and don't need one.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Norton started going downhill the second version that Symantec brought out.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Plain and simple. May work fine in the lab, hence the glowing reviews, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                        have seen innumerable machines that vastly improved with replacement of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Norton software.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 11:38 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 792: Virus Help !

                                                                                                                                                                                                        there is some validity in what he has said about
                                                                                                                                                                                                        norton, in that over the past year they have slouched
                                                                                                                                                                                                        a little where other companies have caught up to their
                                                                                                                                                                                                        old standards, but as pointed out, there is a big
                                                                                                                                                                                                        difference between tech support cue card experience
                                                                                                                                                                                                        and real world experiences....don't sweat it. keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                        yourself update and you should be fine....much like
                                                                                                                                                                                                        testing your fish tank on a regular basis will prevent
                                                                                                                                                                                                        tragedies
                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        > hm, not sure where you got that idea, as everyone i
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > know who uses it says it works well. my office uses
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > it, my husband's large corporation uses it, almost
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > everyone i know uses it and have never had problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > with it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > of course, nothing is 100% effective, especially as
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > new viruses are released often. but it's best to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > have some sort of anti-virus software on any
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > computer hooked to the internet and/or one that is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > used for email.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Valeen,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Norton is a NO, NO, NO as and anti-virus program or
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > as an internet security
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > suite. I see far too many problems with the Symantec
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > product to be able to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > recommend them. More problems come from Norton than
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > all the other products
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > combined.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I spend my days mostly in the corporate world,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > working with many clients. If
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I am done early enough to actually get back to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > office, I see consumer
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > (home) machines. I was a fan of the Symantec
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > corporate edition until early
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > last year, when I saw too many problems with it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Most of our clients are now
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > running something other than Symantec, mostly McAfee
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > or TrendMicro. It was
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > cheaper to switch than to pay us to fix the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > problems. A lot of the machines
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > we saw coming into the shop were having problems due
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > to the failings of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Norton software. They have pretty much
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > switched--most do not owe an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > allegiance to a particular product--they just want
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > one that works and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > don't have to worry about.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > In the evenings I do telephone tech support for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > small ISP who wires
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > apartment and condominium buildings for high speed
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > internet. Since I am only
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > responsible for the connection, I don't see problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > with the AV portion of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the product, but the firewall portion is poor, to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > say the least. I've seen
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > many cases where the product has completely shut
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > down access to the NIC, not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > allowing any traffic to pass. I shut it down (well,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > they shut it down at my
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > direction), end of problem. I generally recommend
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > another firewall product
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > for them. I've not seen the problem with other
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > firewall products.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 2:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 792: Virus
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > yep, most it people advocate other email programs
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > than ms outlook due to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ms's low security but
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > high user friendliness programs. at my former
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > company, the mis/it guy told
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > me eudora is better
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > than outlook when it comes to security. however, the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > best bet is to not open
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > attachments unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > you're expecting them, or verify with the sender
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > that they knowingly sent
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > them to you. and of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > course, don't download anything off the web unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > you know it's secure.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > always keep your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > anti-virus programs current!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > and if you have access to these programs, do a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > norton cleaning on your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > computer now and install
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > spyware & ad blocker software onto your computer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > these methods are not 100%
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > effective but are
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > better than not doing anything.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > or just don't use crap like outlook!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- nbv <nickvillarruz@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > As you may know, when/if a worm virus gets into
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > your computer it heads straight for your email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > address book and sends itself to everyone in
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > there,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > thus infecting all your friends and associates.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > This trick won't keep the virus from getting
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > into
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > your computer, but it will stop it from using
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > address book to spread further, and it will
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > alert
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > to the fact that the worm has gotten into your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > system.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Here's what you do:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > First: Open your address book and click on "new
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > contact" or "new person" just as you would do if
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > you were adding a new friend to your list of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > addresses.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Second: In the window where you would type your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > friend's FIRST name, type in ! 000 (that's an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > exclamation mark followed by 3 zeros). In the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > window
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > below where it prompts you to enter the new
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > address,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > type in Worm Alert.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Third: Then complete everything by clicking add,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > enter, OK, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Now, here's what you've done and why it works:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > the "name" !000 will be placed at the top of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > address book as entry #1. This will be where the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > will start in an effort to send itself to all
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > But when it tries to send itself to !000, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > undeliverable because of the phony email address
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > you entered (Worm Alert). If the first attempt
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > fails
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > (which it will because of the phony address),
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > worm goes no further and your friends will not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > infected.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Here's the second great advantage of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > method:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > If an email cannot be delivered, you will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > notified
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > of this in your InBox almost immediately.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Hence, if you ever get an email telling you that
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > email addressed to Worm Alert could not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > delivered, you know right away that you have the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > virus in your system. You can then take steps to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > get
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > rid of it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Pretty slick huh?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > If everybody you know does this, then you
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > needn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > ever worry about opening mail from friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > Pass this on to your friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > -------------------<snip>---------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        === message truncated ===




                                                                                                                                                                                                        __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                        Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out!

                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html




                                                                                                                                                                                                        Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not important to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        subject line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-, we Thank You
                                                                                                                                                                                                        in Advance for your help in this matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11938 From: Amalthea Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        just get a mac and be done with it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Your Alternative to the Alternative....

                                                                                                                                                                                                        On Jun 1, 2005, at 12:30 AM, Steve Szabo wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Dude,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I'm in the trenches all day. Don't have a cue card, and don't need
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > one.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Norton started going downhill the second version that Symantec
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > brought out.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Plain and simple. May work fine in the lab, hence the glowing
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > reviews, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > have seen innumerable machines that vastly improved with
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > replacement of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Norton software.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Behalf Of paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 11:38 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 792: Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > there is some validity in what he has said about
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > norton, in that over the past year they have slouched
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > a little where other companies have caught up to their
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > old standards, but as pointed out, there is a big
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > difference between tech support cue card experience
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > and real world experiences....don't sweat it. keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > yourself update and you should be fine....much like
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > testing your fish tank on a regular basis will prevent
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tragedies
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- Valeen Gonzalez <valeendgonzalez@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > hm, not sure where you got that idea, as everyone i
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > know who uses it says it works well. my office uses
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > it, my husband's large corporation uses it, almost
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > everyone i know uses it and have never had problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > with it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > of course, nothing is 100% effective, especially as
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > new viruses are released often. but it's best to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > have some sort of anti-virus software on any
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > computer hooked to the internet and/or one that is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > used for email.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Valeen,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Norton is a NO, NO, NO as and anti-virus program or
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > as an internet security
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > suite. I see far too many problems with the Symantec
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > product to be able to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > recommend them. More problems come from Norton than
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > all the other products
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > combined.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > I spend my days mostly in the corporate world,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > working with many clients. If
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > I am done early enough to actually get back to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > office, I see consumer
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > (home) machines. I was a fan of the Symantec
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > corporate edition until early
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > last year, when I saw too many problems with it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Most of our clients are now
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > running something other than Symantec, mostly McAfee
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > or TrendMicro. It was
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > cheaper to switch than to pay us to fix the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > problems. A lot of the machines
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > we saw coming into the shop were having problems due
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > to the failings of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Norton software. They have pretty much
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > switched--most do not owe an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > allegiance to a particular product--they just want
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > one that works and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > don't have to worry about.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > In the evenings I do telephone tech support for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > small ISP who wires
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > apartment and condominium buildings for high speed
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > internet. Since I am only
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > responsible for the connection, I don't see problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > with the AV portion of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > the product, but the firewall portion is poor, to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > say the least. I've seen
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > many cases where the product has completely shut
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > down access to the NIC, not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > allowing any traffic to pass. I shut it down (well,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > they shut it down at my
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > direction), end of problem. I generally recommend
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > another firewall product
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > for them. I've not seen the problem with other
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > firewall products.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Behalf Of Valeen Gonzalez
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 2:30 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 792: Virus
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > yep, most it people advocate other email programs
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > than ms outlook due to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > ms's low security but
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > high user friendliness programs. at my former
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > company, the mis/it guy told
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > me eudora is better
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > than outlook when it comes to security. however, the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > best bet is to not open
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > attachments unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > you're expecting them, or verify with the sender
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > that they knowingly sent
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > them to you. and of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > course, don't download anything off the web unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > you know it's secure.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > always keep your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > anti-virus programs current!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > and if you have access to these programs, do a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > norton cleaning on your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > computer now and install
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > spyware & ad blocker software onto your computer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > these methods are not 100%
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > effective but are
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > better than not doing anything.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > or just don't use crap like outlook!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > --- nbv <nickvillarruz@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Virus Help !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > As you may know, when/if a worm virus gets into
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > your computer it heads straight for your email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > address book and sends itself to everyone in
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > there,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > thus infecting all your friends and associates.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > This trick won't keep the virus from getting
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > into
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > your computer, but it will stop it from using
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > address book to spread further, and it will
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > alert
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > you
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > to the fact that the worm has gotten into your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > system.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Here's what you do:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > First: Open your address book and click on "new
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > contact" or "new person" just as you would do if
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > you were adding a new friend to your list of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > addresses.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Second: In the window where you would type your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > friend's FIRST name, type in ! 000 (that's an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > exclamation mark followed by 3 zeros). In the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > window
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > below where it prompts you to enter the new
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > email
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > address,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > type in Worm Alert.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Third: Then complete everything by clicking add,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > enter, OK, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Now, here's what you've done and why it works:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > the "name" !000 will be placed at the top of
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > address book as entry #1. This will be where the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > will start in an effort to send itself to all
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > But when it tries to send itself to !000, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > undeliverable because of the phony email address
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > you entered (Worm Alert). If the first attempt
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > fails
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > (which it will because of the phony address),
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > worm goes no further and your friends will not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > infected.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Here's the second great advantage of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > method:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > If an email cannot be delivered, you will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > notified
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > of this in your InBox almost immediately.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Hence, if you ever get an email telling you that
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > an
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > email addressed to Worm Alert could not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > delivered, you know right away that you have the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > worm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > virus in your system. You can then take steps to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > get
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > rid of it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Pretty slick huh?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > If everybody you know does this, then you
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > needn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > ever worry about opening mail from friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > > Pass this on to your friends.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > -------------------<snip>---------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Please delete this line and everything below it when
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > that is not important to the reply and if changing
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > the topic of the original message modify the subject
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > line -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > we Thank You in Advance for your help in this
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > === message truncated ===
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Discover Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Check it out!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please delete this line and everything below it when replying, thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > .
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please, when you reply to a post, delete all text that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > important to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the reply and if changing the topic of the original message modify the
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                                                                                                                                                                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11939 From: Dragon Hunter Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Now there's an image for ya. An oscar in spandex tights wielding a chair
                                                                                                                                                                                                        jumping off the edge of its aquarium to pound a pacu in the head.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Ah well. Let them argue. Simple point is if you're on a global network,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        you're vulnerable. No sence panicking over it. Keep your protection up to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        date and realize that you'll be hit eventually. (those teenage malware
                                                                                                                                                                                                        writes would hate to leave yall out) Doesn't matter if attachments are on
                                                                                                                                                                                                        or off. lighten up and enjoy your fish (preferably without the butter and
                                                                                                                                                                                                        frypan....maybe rolled up in rice)

                                                                                                                                                                                                        So, now that I've tossed my cookies into the hat, I'll sit back and wait to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        see who reaches in for the gooey surprised while my blue gouramis plan my
                                                                                                                                                                                                        eventual demise.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Happy Fishkeeping. (remember....they watch you more than you watch them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        be afraid! ) lol

                                                                                                                                                                                                        -Steve
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 11940 From: paul helms Date: 5/31/2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: A request to the group management
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Pat,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        my point is that this guy always has to add his 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                        dollars worth, when all that is required is 2 cents.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        nothing to do with fish or computers or anything else.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        just tired of the high and mighty ya know. if you
                                                                                                                                                                                                        can help, help. no need to chastise anyone for their
                                                                                                                                                                                                        natural responses. i mean do you sit down an oscar
                                                                                                                                                                                                        and scold him for kicking the crap out of a new
                                                                                                                                                                                                        addition to the tank....no. so let people speak their
                                                                                                                                                                                                        mind. and just for teh record, the word crap is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        profanity. it may have four letters, but it is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                        profanity by any means!...not directed at you pat,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        just venting
                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- "Patrick, AAFG" <patrickmn1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > As for switching off attachments...It was just a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > suggestion. I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > starting to think y'all just want to argue. It's
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > like pro wrestling. I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > waiting for chairs to start flying! I went for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > year with no antivirus at
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > all, and I just got NAV 2005 a couple of weeks ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > and it didn't find a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > single virus, but if found spyware and adware that
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > even spybot didn't find
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > (spybot's argument is that other services have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > lower standard for what
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > spyware is, so it gets more of it). I say stop the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > fussing, talk about fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > (you know, little swimming things that live in your
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > glass boxes), and forget
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I brought it up.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Patrick, an American Fish Guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > "Now this is not the end. It is not even the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > beginning of the end. But it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > perhaps, the end of the beginning."
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > -Winston Churchill
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > removed]
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >



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